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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Two Days to Go
2005-10-01 07:57
by Jon Weisman

(Unless there are three):

National League Wild Card
87-73 Houston (Chicago at Houston, 1:05 p.m.)
86-74 Philadelphia (Philadelphia at Washington, 1:05 p.m.)

American League East
94-66 New York (New York at Boston, 10:15 a.m.)
94-66 Boston

American League Wild Card
94-66 Boston
93-67 Cleveland (Chicago at Cleveland, 10:15 a.m.)

* * *

Tonight's Game

Comments (294)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-01 09:05:11
1.   deburns
Can someone explain to me why not "risking the embarrassment of Tracy's opting out to take a job with a lower payroll" is worth paying him $700K net of whatever he gets from becoming Felipe's bench coach (or whatever job he takes)?
2005-10-01 09:26:14
2.   Bob Timmermann
Turns out that tonight is actually the last Channel 13 game, not the one last week.

Please go back to your tearful remembrances.

2005-10-01 09:27:51
3.   Bob Timmermann
Ozzie Guillen is starting more of the Varsity squad for Chicago today. Not that that will help Cleveland if they keep up their Dodger-like hitting.
2005-10-01 09:36:02
4.   Sam DC
Yankees Red Sox is a fox game, but they decided to run the Nats-Phillies on fox this afternoon, so the Yanks-Sox is blacked out in DC. Apparently on all outlets, though can't confirm extra innings, which I don't have. Wait, I think I just heard an angry howl . . .
2005-10-01 09:37:34
5.   SiGeg
I hadn't realized how ordinary Olmedo Saenz season has been – ordinary for him, that is. I thought he was outperforming expectations, but it turns out that, after his September stumbles, the only unusual thing about his season has been how many at-bats he's had. He's OPSing 807 this year vs. 803 for his career,and his OBP is down. In years in which he's had at least 100 at-bats, this year was better only than his miserable 2001 OPSing .675. In contrast, he OPSed .857 for the Dodgers last year and .915 for Oakland in 2000.

Strange stat: This year, he's hit 24 doubles in 108 at-bats; last year, in 77 at-bats, he hit only 1.

Saenz and Choi have eerily similar numbers:
Saenz Choi
AB 318 317
H 84 81
R 39 40
HR 15 15
AVG .264 .256
TB 153 145
OBP .326 .339
SLG .481 .457
OPS .807 .796
RC 46.5 47.4

2005-10-01 09:39:06
6.   King of the Hobos
1 I questioned that myself. But now I'll become even more impatient for Tuesday, as it's also the start of playoffs and the AFL...

And from the other paper, Daily News is questioning whether the coaching staff would stay. What's the concensus on who should stay and who should go, knowing that Tracy likely will try to invite some of them to his new team?

And whether Bako returns depends on whether he thinks the Dodgers have a chance to win. We could offer him arby, tell him we plan to lose, so he declines it. Then we get an extra sandwich pick somewhere (teams are far more willing to give sandwich picks, like the Twins did when they signed Redmond)

2005-10-01 09:41:41
7.   Bob Timmermann
There are only three games available on Extra Innings tonight: Colorado vs. New York, Minnesota vs. Detroit, and L.A. of A vs Texas.
2005-10-01 09:43:01
8.   Kayaker7
5 Of course, Choi's numbers are held down by his atrocious pinch hitting. In addition, Saenz has a higher RBI total (63 vs. 42), mostly due to batting order.
2005-10-01 09:47:12
9.   Sam DC
7 Yes, it was, indeed, an angry howl . . .
2005-10-01 09:50:21
10.   Sam DC
What's funny is that it's been ridiculously difficult to get the Nationals on TV all year; now that it doesn't really matter (well, to Nationals' fans, anyhow), they block the premiere game of the day.
2005-10-01 10:00:01
11.   SiGeg
8 Yes, I was mostly just looking at the numbers that were similar, as I found them striking.

RBI is the most important difference. Saenz did have more opportunities with runners in scoring position, but he also hit much better than Choi did in those situations, so that may have had more to do with it than batter order. I don't read much into that beyond luck, though.

There are other differences. Choi struck out about 25% more often than Saenz did, but walked about 25% more often as well. Saenz had a better first half of the season than second half of the season, while Choi improved in the second half (in fewer at-bats, which either shows that Tracy underutilized him or utilized him in just such a way that he could improve. But let's not go there.)

2005-10-01 10:08:26
12.   Bob Timmermann
So on Tuesday, will there be rejoicing in Dodger Thoughts Land or great wailing?
2005-10-01 10:18:20
13.   HomeDePo
12 - i hope rejoicing. i am no longer a dodger fan if we keep tracy and fire depo
2005-10-01 10:24:40
14.   Sam DC
13 Well, I would be pretty frustrated with the McCourt's if that happened, but not a Dodger Fan. I don't know about that.
2005-10-01 10:25:27
15.   Sam DC
14 Just trying to squeeze in an extra apostrophe to make up for childhood wrongs, there.
2005-10-01 10:27:17
16.   HomeDePo
14 - I would feel like i was betrayed by the organization, even if I have not choice in what goes on. it would just be a boneheaded move that I would not be able to live with. And it is not like i am an unloyal Dodger fan. It would be like a nasty breakup where you dont want to get back together but you do. I would just need my girlfriend, the Dodgers, to prove themself again.
2005-10-01 10:36:29
17.   King of the Hobos
Wakefield ain't doing so good, 3 runs and 1 out in the top of the first. He decided to go with the fastball rather than the knuckler to Sheffield, and it went really far
2005-10-01 10:38:35
18.   Bob Timmermann
Since the reports are that the Dodgers would tell Tracy his status by Tuesday leads me to think that DePodesta's status isn't being threatened.

If McCourt were to decide on Tuesday that he wanted to cashier DePodesta and keep Tracy, he would have to have somebody ready to step in and take over the GM job immediately. This is the busy season for GMs.

2005-10-01 10:39:40
19.   HomeDePo
18 - good thinking bob, and thanks for calming my mind
2005-10-01 10:40:58
20.   Sam DC
15 For the love of Choi, what is that comma doing there, there. I'm going to take a hint and be done for the day.
2005-10-01 10:44:11
21.   Sam DC
20 And to top it off, no question mark. Sheesh, quite a run the kid's having as the season winds to a close . . .
2005-10-01 10:45:35
22.   Bob Timmermann
I'm glad to be a calming influence. I could be wrong and McCourt could be incredibly mercurial and just fire everybody.

Come back Sam! Come back!

I'm hiding in my darkened apartment with:
1) the A/C on to prevent any ash from getting into my house
2) the blinds completely shut because they are painting my building and I don't want the painters looking into my living room.

2005-10-01 10:50:30
23.   Icaros
22 Be sure to line your walls and ceiling with aluminum foil so those aliens can't intercept your brainwaves anymore.
2005-10-01 10:52:29
24.   HomeDePo
23 - LOL

Dont you just love Bronx Banter?

2005-10-01 10:56:37
25.   Bob Timmermann
Hey, I got them to correct the spelling of "judgment"!
2005-10-01 10:56:58
26.   regfairfield
Season on the line, Yankees start a guy with a .169 average.

You'd think 220 million could do a little better.

2005-10-01 10:57:20
27.   LAT
Wakefield not fooling anyone today
2005-10-01 10:57:39
28.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, Cleveland actually got a hit.
They didn't score.

But they got a hit!

Since when did Cleveland start hitting like the Dodgers?

2005-10-01 10:58:20
29.   Bob Timmermann
Unlike the Red Sox starting the fearsome Doug Mirabelli behind the plate.
2005-10-01 10:58:35
30.   LAT
26. No one told me Jose Valintine was traded to the Yankees
2005-10-01 11:00:58
31.   Bob Timmermann
Will any of the following players get a hit for the Dodgers in the next two days?
Jose Valentin
Ricky Ledee
Jason Phillips
Mike Rose
Hee-Seop Choi
2005-10-01 11:01:11
32.   Linkmeister
So what's the consensus here? Root for the Sox today? That's my choice, solely because of Yankee hatred.
2005-10-01 11:01:44
33.   HomeDePo
25 - I wanted to get an angry response from them with my comment number one, but nothing happened.

oh well there is always tomorrow

2005-10-01 11:01:52
34.   Icaros
Since when did Cleveland start hitting like the Dodgers?

When the poor saps of Dodger Thoughts started rooting for them.

It's called the Steve Haskins A's Fan Syndrome.

2005-10-01 11:03:17
35.   regfairfield
29 Touche. But at least he had an .893 OPS last year.
2005-10-01 11:03:28
36.   HomeDePo
32 - I think the consensus is that the Sox and Yanks can do whatever they want as long as the Tribe make the playoffs
2005-10-01 11:03:29
37.   LAT
no, are you kidding?
yes, but will he be able to run it out?
yes, unfortunatly
2005-10-01 11:13:05
38.   Bob Timmermann
That's what I was thinking about Cleveland too.

It's all Steve's fault.

Fire Steve Haskins!

Meanwhile, my digital cable box is acting up and the video is all jumpy. It's because I am using a DV-R and the disk is skipping.

But it's going through the commercials just fine!

2005-10-01 11:20:45
39.   Bob Timmermann
So did the Chan Ho Park for Phil Nevin turn out to be one of the least relevant trades in baseball?
2005-10-01 11:24:14
40.   Icaros
Are the Padres on the hook for Park's salary next year? Isn't he due to make a ton of money?
2005-10-01 11:27:46
41.   regfairfield
40 The Rangers sent "cash" to the Padres. I think he was due to make three million more than Nevin.
2005-10-01 11:42:12
42.   Bob Timmermann
Randy Winn had an OPS of 1317 in September. He hit 11 home runs.
2005-10-01 11:46:36
43.   Bob Timmermann
My windows have been covered in plastic and duct taped.

I'm ready for a chemical weapons attack!

2005-10-01 11:51:18
44.   dzzrtRatt
I couldn't make any sense out of the Times article on Tracy this morning. Either the Times reporter is on cold medication, or the Dodgers are handling the Tracy move with an uncommon lack of grace. If they're worried about a sympathy wave for Tracy, it seems like they're doing what they can to promote one--sympathy for a guy who will be sent on his way with a $700,000 check in his pocket. What was that Watergate line? 'Let him twist slowly, slowly, in the wind.' If I read the Times correctly, they're suggesting that the Dodgers' position on Tracy is this:

"We're going to fire you Tuesday, but before we do that, we're going to make you an offer that we trust you'll find sufficiently insulting to refuse."

By the end of this process, Tracy will be unhirable by any other team unless they are willing to tolerate total insubordination. And no decent manager will want to work for DePo and McCourt because they won't want to risk public humiliation down the road. For the moment anyway, we're starting to make the Tampa Bay Devil Rays look good.

2005-10-01 11:55:48
45.   HomeDePo
44 - i had trouble with it as well...i think the times' coverage of the dodgers is downright silly
2005-10-01 11:59:20
46.   Bob Timmermann
The problem Henson is having is that he is getting very little space because it's the end of the year and there's college football and Angels stuff that they have to write about.

So he's trying to squeeze 10 lbs of something that is not Shinola into a 5 lb sack.

2005-10-01 12:00:15
47.   dzzrtRatt
Listening to the pre-game show on the radio yesterday (I'm not a total geek, I was just in the car and wasn't in the mood for the Rolling Stones), I heard Rick Monday interview Jim Colborn, who was chatting in a very positive manner about next season, thrilled at the Gagne training program, and otherwise conveying a vibe that he's back next year. The only weirdness was this strained joke that I guess was supposed to be a put-down of Monday's broadcast crew.

Anyway, it got me to Jim Colborn going to become the new manager?

2005-10-01 12:02:23
48.   King of the Hobos
Another FA is gone. Not much of a loss, but it does make the market smaller. And the winner of the 3 year extension is:

Ryan Dempster

2005-10-01 12:05:04
49.   King of the Hobos
47 As long as he doesn't play Phillips at first, or name Gagne pitching coach, I don't min I guess. I really have no idea how he would manage. Maybe Gagne can be a player/pitching coach
2005-10-01 12:05:18
50.   dzzrtRatt
45, 46...both of your responses suggest you think the problem is the Times' butchering of the information they got from DePo and the team, rather than the way DePo and the team is handling the Tracy situation. As a Times-hater of long standing, I'm certainly open to that idea.

So what do you think is really going on? What does DePo mean when he says (or is quoted as saying, perhaps incorrectly): "Each possible outcome triggers a chain of events."

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-01 12:07:15
51.   dzzrtRatt
Oh, Fox, just switch to the Chicago/Cleveland game already. The Yanks have this one in the bag, and if the Red Sox make a comeback, you can always switch over again.
2005-10-01 12:08:54
52.   rageon
49 If we're going with a player-coach, let's go with Rickey Henderson. No better way to combine plate discipline with hilarious interviews.
2005-10-01 12:11:00
53.   HomeDePo
50 - I think DePo meant that he is prepared for the media to scorn his next move and he does not care
2005-10-01 12:11:27
54.   King of the Hobos
Iguchi hits it out, 4-1 ChiSox

And my playoff hopes sure are crashing. At least the AFL has Gameday this year

2005-10-01 12:13:57
55.   HomeDePo
52 - i do not think rickey would make the best pitching coach. But he is The Greatest of All Time
2005-10-01 12:14:19
56.   HomeDePo
52 - i do not think rickey would make the best pitching coach. But he is The Greatest of All Time
2005-10-01 12:14:32
57.   regfairfield
The Yankees record when they score at least 7 runs is 46-3.

This is due to the strength of their bullpen, apparantely.

2005-10-01 12:18:39
58.   King of the Hobos
Apparently Ron Washington may be a candidate for the opening in Tampa Bay. I'm sure Upton would like that
2005-10-01 12:19:06
59.   dzzrtRatt
Actually, a playoff scenario that has a first round of Angels v. Yankees, and Red Sox v. White Sox strikes me as very appealling. Both series come down to pitching v. hitting. The media will be rooting for a rerun of last season's ALCS, but I bet we end up with the Angels playing the Red Sox.

For Cleveland...wait'll next year. They'll be better next year.

2005-10-01 12:24:09
60.   Bob Timmermann

Or just due to the fact that most teams win a lot of games when they score 7 runs.

2005-10-01 12:26:33
61.   regfairfield
60 This is why Joe Buck is a poor analyist.
2005-10-01 12:27:34
62.   Bob Timmermann
Haven't the Dodgers lost just one game in which they've scored more than 7?
2005-10-01 12:30:40
63.   King of the Hobos
While we're all enjoying the Game Break, the Indians have pulled within a run, 4-3 and still threatening
2005-10-01 12:32:15
64.   regfairfield
62 Their bullpen must be awesome.
2005-10-01 12:32:39
65.   HomeDePo
62 - theyve probably only scored 7 runs once
2005-10-01 12:32:42
66.   HomeDePo
62 - theyve probably only scored 7 runs once
2005-10-01 12:36:01
67.   Icaros
I don't care how it looks, I'm glad Tracy is leaving. This year's team wasn't going anywhere with the injuries it amassed. Tracy thinks it wasn't going anywhere anyway. Whatever, he also thinks Phillips is a good hitter.

I'm just glad he won't be around to use his insane prejudices on the young crop of players making its way to the bigs over the next three years.

I don't want to wonder why Guzman isn't getting a chance because "Joel doesn't have a defensive position," or see LaRoche benched in favor of Mike Edwards because he makes two errors at third in one game. I don't want to see Matt Kemp fighting with Jason Repko for playing time because Kemp isn't a "gamer."

Tracy has always been his own biggest fan. We'll see how great he does with Jason Bay and the Pittsburgh Scrap-a-Lots.

2005-10-01 12:36:52
68.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers are 34-1 when they've scored 7 runs or more.
2005-10-01 12:36:57
69.   Fallout
44. dzzrtRatt
"or the Dodgers are handling the Tracy move with an uncommon lack of grace."

That is my take.

DePodesta was very bold when he took over. Now, he is looking over his shoulder. He knows what he wants to do but is trying his best to find a way to hold down the controversy manifesting in a "lack of grace."

2005-10-01 12:50:16
70.   dzzrtRatt
67 Icaros, my take is that how DePo handles this does matter, because he's still a relative parvenue among GMs, and it's important that he maintain an aura of respect within the baseball community. Last year's buzz about his uncertainty in dealing with the Green/Navarro/Vazquez trade--fair or not--wasn't helpful. Nor is this. I agree, in the long run, the decision is far more important than the process. But that doesn't make the process irrelevant.

(I hope Sitrick is reading this. I just gave them the most important advice they can steal and overcharge McCourt for all year.)

2005-10-01 12:52:35
71.   King of the Hobos
Indians have men on 2nd and 3rd with Martinez up. A sac fly and it's tied...
2005-10-01 12:54:56
72.   King of the Hobos
71 Well, the White Sox decided a DP with the Not-So-Killer Bs was the wiser path. Belliard up with the bases loaded...
2005-10-01 12:55:27
73.   Icaros
70 I think that stuff is overblown. I don't see how the manufactured controversy from last year's trade was helpful or unhelpful either way.

When coaches get canned, there are always hard feelings, but new coaches always sign on for the job, thinking it will work out differently for them. Same with players. Same with other GMs looking to deal.

2005-10-01 12:55:47
74.   King of the Hobos
72 But FOX is also clearly taking the wiser choice. I'd much rather see Boston attempt a 5 run comeback with 5 outs left
2005-10-01 12:57:32
75.   Bob Timmermann
Leo Durocher managed the Dodgers from 1939 through 1946. He was suspended in 1947. He came back in 1948, but left to go manage THE GIANTS. And after the Giants canned him, the Dodgers eventually hired him back as a coach.
2005-10-01 12:58:05
76.   Bob Timmermann
Nothing to see in Cleveland people. Move along. Nothing to see.
2005-10-01 12:58:28
77.   King of the Hobos
Belliard popped up on the first pitch, Brousard flew out to center.
2005-10-01 13:03:57
78.   dzzrtRatt
73 I just think this makes DePodesta look indecisive and/or insensitive. It's not being done crisply. And people notice. The next manager needs to understand that DePo is firmly in charge, and deserves respect. Tracy read him as uncertain, and took advantage, the bastard.

I'm beginning to think DePo and McCourt are on the same page in terms of the big picture, but on opposite sides of the planet on day-to-day management issues. Maybe it's an Irish v. Italian thing.

2005-10-01 13:07:57
79.   HomeDePo
funny thing: i was recently in boston and they hate frank mccourt more than any dodger fan. i heard he wanted to tear down fenway
2005-10-01 13:09:32
80.   King of the Hobos
Indians have their last few batters up. FOX doesn't notice
2005-10-01 13:10:42
81.   Bob Timmermann
Good thing Fox doesn't cover the NCAA basketball tournament.
2005-10-01 13:11:26
82.   Icaros
It's not being done crisply.

Seems crisp enough to me. Tracy has seven days to decide whether to opt out, DePo is canning him on day two.

As far as insensitive goes, DePo hasn't said a bad word about Tracy all season. He has stuck up for and supported his manager even when everyone knew that Tracy was openly defying his plans for the team. To me, that type of repect would appeal to other prospective managers.

How often do GMs and owners make their managers the fall guy? All the time. The Dodgers have absolutely not done that this season. DePo and McCourt have publicly shouldered blame while Tracy has continued to pat himself on the back for a job well done.

2005-10-01 13:12:25
83.   King of the Hobos
Grady Sizemore represents the Indians last hope...
2005-10-01 13:12:25
84.   Fallout
79. HomeDePo

I guess that he did not come up with some of his funny ideas about Dodger Stadium overnight.

2005-10-01 13:12:41
85.   Icaros
i heard he wanted to tear down fenway

We heard he wanted to tear down Dodger Stadium. Shows you how much rumors are worth.

2005-10-01 13:15:33
86.   regfairfield
A-Rod never comes through in big games. He's obviously not a true Yankee.
2005-10-01 13:15:37
87.   King of the Hobos
The Indians have stopped their hitting at the worst possible time. The media loves it I'm sure, now the Yanks and Bosox probably get to play. Well, go Astros/Phillies or Padres!
2005-10-01 13:16:27
88.   Screwgie
"Each possible outcome triggers a chain of events. We are being prudent and thinking them through."

The only possible outcome that doesn't "trigger a chain of events" is an agreement by management to award Tracy the extension he's seeking.

Bye, Jimbo.

2005-10-01 13:18:24
89.   HomeDePo
85 - he was not gonna tear it down... my bad. he was going to leave it up but build a new stadium elsewhere and abandon fen
2005-10-01 13:19:40
90.   dzzrtRatt
You watch these two games today, and it's hard to argue that Cleveland belongs in the playoffs now. Yeah, they belong there if they get there, but I suspect there is some grade inflation in the AL Central.
2005-10-01 13:22:43
91.   dzzrtRatt
DePo is canning him on day two.

Or, signing him to an extension. That's what I mean by 'not crisp.' What isn't clear at all is whether DePo wants Tracy to manage the team in 2005. He's leaving that up to Tracy. So, if I'm Jeff Kent or Derek Lowe, what's the message there? "I might want Tracy to be your manager next year. Or not."

2005-10-01 13:27:07
92.   Fallout
85. Icaros

I believe that it became part of the agreement when McCourt bought the team that he couldn't move the team to downtown LA.

If Dodger Stadium was involved in the
agreement? Someone help me on this?

2005-10-01 13:29:48
93.   Icaros
91 Does anybody think Tracy is getting the extension? They're just waiting until the season is over to officially anounce his being let go. I think that's pretty common practice.

He's not leaving it up to Tracy. They said they will fire him if they don't extend him. Tracy is guaranteed next year's salary even if he doesn't work anywhere next season. What horrible treatment...

2005-10-01 13:32:30
94.   Icaros
92 I don't see your point. All I said was he isn't tearing down Dodger Stadium.
2005-10-01 13:34:42
95.   dzzrtRatt
93 You're focusing on the outcome. Dodgers get a new manager, Tracy gets $700,000 and a free pass to find another job. Fine and dandy. Then why didn't DePo and the team just shut up until Tuesday, rather than uttering all these if this, then that, if that then this, but this will lead to that speculations in today's news? It looks bad. A chief executive allowing himself to look foolish and indecisive in the press is a mistake. What he's supposed to do is, if asked a question on this topic, answer "We'll address this issue after the season. I look forward to discussing the future with Jim Tracy." You've said nothing, but you look like you're in charge.

Sitrick must be on vacation. Hey, you've got to spend those fees someplace.

2005-10-01 13:35:10
96.   Vishal
91 i don't really understand what you're saying, dzzrtratt. the dodgers aren't going to admit whether they're keeping tracy or letting him go until the season is over, which is entirely fair. so they're not going to say what the decision is; all they're saying is that it will either let tracy go or sign an extension.

however, almost as SOON as the season is over(tuesday), they're going to announce the decision.

from tracy's ungraceful comments this week, it seems pretty clear he's burning his bridges though, so we can infer that he's probably going to be fired. but i don't know what else you expect the front office to do at this moment? they're waiting till tuesday. that's it. fairly straightforward and "crisp" if you ask me.

2005-10-01 13:37:59
97.   Icaros
95 All I care about is the outcome. I let the tabloid addicts worry about the meaningless stuff.

So, because of this, you think nobody will ever want to work for or trade with the Dodgers again. Fine, we'll see if that ends up being the case.

2005-10-01 13:39:41
98.   Vishal
in fact, i think it's very polite of them to say "oh, this is a tough decision, we're struggling with it" rather than just firing him on tuesday and making it seem like ditching tracy is the no-brainer that it is.
2005-10-01 13:41:21
99.   Bob Timmermann
If Tracy is let go, the Dodgers will not have a shortage of candidates.

People are lining up to manage Pittsburgh. Kansas City had candidates after Pena left. There are just 30 MLB manager jobs. If one comes open and you want to do it, you take it.

It's not like someone would be applying for the job of Ambassador to Kazakhstan.

2005-10-01 13:43:21
100.   Icaros
99 What about GM of the Istanbul Rams?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-01 13:44:14
101.   King of the Hobos
95 Maybe this is a case similar to Bradley. Someone was told not to say anything, they said something, and DePo had to cover. Quoting Joe Nobody from the Dodgers Front Office means as much as "highly reputed sourse." They may have badgered DePo to say something
2005-10-01 13:47:54
102.   King of the Hobos
97 I'm actually rooting that no one wants to work for the Dodgers. I'm young enough I could eventually work for them, and that dream is a lot more meaningful than the amount of money (by work, I'm referring to something other than ticket sales or vendor, someone with some sort of minute importance). Maybe if enough people quit...
2005-10-01 13:48:56
103.   King of the Hobos
99 Hey, that's another dream of mine
2005-10-01 13:50:29
104.   King of the Hobos
Phillies up 4-1 in the second. John Patterson pitching, so it's hardly the nats handing it to the Phillies
2005-10-01 13:50:36
105.   dzzrtRatt
I don't think I ever said no one will want to manage the Dodgers. I'm talking about DePodesta maintaining an aura of authority.

This line in the Henson story looks absurd to me:

"Tracy, who is in his fifth season, either will be offered a contract extension or be fired. The only room for compromise would be the length of a new deal."

As does this:

"But DePodesta did say it was a very difficult decision.

"'We are trying to think through everything dutifully,' he said. 'It's not as easy as asking, 'Do you like him?''

"'Each possible outcome triggers a chain of events. We are being prudent and thinking them through.'"

Maybe it's just me. It is as easy as asking "do you like him?" If you don't, then fire him. If you do, then try to reach an agreement. If you don't know, then don't answer questions. The way it looks now, if Tracy wakes up Tuesday morning and says, "Paul, I've changed my mind. A one-year extension is jake with me. See you in Florida," then Tracy is our manager thru 2007. Icaros, I don't think you'll be as happy then.

2005-10-01 13:51:09
106.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers played their last game in 2000 on October 1.

On October 6, Davey Johnson was fired. Tracy got the job on November 1.

2005-10-01 13:52:46
107.   Fallout
105. dzzrtRatt

It's not you...

2005-10-01 13:57:23
108.   dzzrtRatt
Bob, was Rick Downs the guy everyone thought would get the job? Whatever happened to him? It seemed like he quit in a huff and went to the Yankees. Is that where he still is?
2005-10-01 14:00:09
109.   Vishal
"Tracy, who is in his fifth season, either will be offered a contract extension or be fired. The only room for compromise would be the length of a new deal

well, it's pretty clear that tracy will not accept the status quo, which is sticking around for 1 more year and fulfilling the original contract. and from the story, it seems depodesta and the front office don't want tracy opting out and say, "choosing" pittsburgh over the dodgers. so if he leaves or if he stays, it will be on the dodgers' terms, not on tracy's. it will be either their extension offer or their dismissal.

2005-10-01 14:00:47
110.   SiGeg
105 The way it looks now, if Tracy wakes up Tuesday morning and says, "Paul, I've changed my mind. A one-year extension is jake with me. See you in Florida," then Tracy is our manager thru 2007.

No, I think he'd have to agree to simply manage through the end of his current contract (and say so to the public) in order to force DePodesta's hand like that. As it now stands, DePo can simply say, "As good a job as Tracy has done for us, under difficult circumstances, we felt it was not the time to extend a contract that was signed less than a year ago. Being unable to meet Tracy's demands, we felt this was the best time to part ways."

2005-10-01 14:01:17
111.   Steve
Remember, Steve Haskins A's Fan Syndrome likely applies to personnel decisions at this point too.

Which is why I wouldn't count out Repko or Tracy.

2005-10-01 14:01:29
112.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees fired Down after a year or two on the job. Mattingly is the hitting coach there now.

The competition was between Down and Tracy. And Johnson only got the job because Felipe Alou turned down the job.

2005-10-01 14:01:46
113.   SiGeg
Also, what Vishal said. : )
2005-10-01 14:03:34
114.   King of the Hobos
FOX has a segment on Moneyball. Surprisingly, they aren't dissing it, but rather complementing it
2005-10-01 14:06:46
115.   Bob Timmermann
Cubs have the bases loaded with 1 out in the 4th against Clemens. Murton at bat. 1-0 Astros.
2005-10-01 14:08:02
116.   Bob Timmermann
Murton hit a Sac Fly to tie it at 1-1.

Astros and Phillies? It's a battle of playoff chokers!

2005-10-01 14:10:09
117.   dzzrtRatt
Well, I'm a lonely voice of disagreement, I guess. I think DePo has left the decision entirely in Tracy's hands. All Tracy has to do is say 'yes,' and he's back--with an additional year added to his contract. We're banking on Tracy finding that outcome unbearable. Well, my mortgage is not in the pot, okay? We'll see in a few days.
2005-10-01 14:11:47
118.   Bob Timmermann
We shall know on Tuesday. Right now, we are in the ionization blackout. No further communications will be possible for a while.
2005-10-01 14:14:46
119.   Fallout
105. dzzrtRatt

Did you read my #69?

2005-10-01 14:15:09
120.   popup
Remembering Sandy:

On July 23, 1955 Sandy Koufax made his fourth major league apperance. Finishing up in a game the Dodgers lost to the Braves 11-6, Sandy surrendered an RBI hit to his mound opponent, Ernie Johnson, and a wild pitch to plate another run. Sandy's pitching line was 2 innings pitched, 2 hits, 2 walks, 2 earned runs, with no strikeouts.

Thanks to the New York Times, Koufax, written by Sandy and Ed Linn, and retrosheet.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-01 14:20:39
121.   Bob Timmermann
4:34 left in the first half,
Arizona State 21

If I were a USC fan, I really wouldn't be all that worried.


2005-10-01 14:24:50
122.   Strike4

No, you're not the only one with this view. Depodesta has projected a lack authority all season, and it's because he thinks everyone swallows his analyst-speak. My own view is that he's not very confident now with a second-guessing owner and a variety of off-field factors that are tough for an analyst to plug into a build-a-team or pick-a-manager model.

McCourt's primary pressure on him has probably been to keep payroll low, and Depodesta has accomplished that. I hope he is allowed to spend more next year even with the likely drop off in seat purchases. Paul at least has a particular strategy for building a team, and more funds to pursue it would help.

2005-10-01 14:25:59
123.   Vishal
they're talking to the media about the possibility of offering him any kind of extension, but i think that's just talk. i doubt he will get offered one. i think on tuesday we will find out that he's fired. it will be entirely the dodgers' decision.

the only way he can possibly stay is if he calls up depodesta on monday night and says "i'm sorry mr. GM, i will stay for only one year and honor my original contract!!". and that seems extremely extremely unlikely, especially since he's guaranteed that money anyway, even if he doesn't work all of next year.

2005-10-01 14:26:39
124.   dzzrtRatt
119 Fallout,
Yes I did read it. Thanks. So we're contrarians together. Doesn't feel so bad, does it?
2005-10-01 14:27:25
125.   Vishal
ps. WOW, USC is getting beat up on 21-3 by arizona state!
2005-10-01 14:29:36
126.   Vishal
whoops, i missed bob's [121]

a general thought: i wonder, does anyone ever convince anyone of anything on the internet?

2005-10-01 14:31:01
127.   Bob Timmermann
I would still go back to Jon's post from yesterday. Once Tracy said he missed all the players from 2003 and 2004, I think he sealed his fate. If I were his boss, I wouldn't put up with that. If he's never going to want the cards in his redealt, he's going to lose.

Tracy is like a guy playing 5-card draw who always stands pat. DePodesta keeps drawing. This year, he drew nothing. Tracy seems happy that he won this hand with a pair of treys. But that won't win too often.

2005-10-01 14:31:21
128.   dzzrtRatt
122 Maybe I'm tuned into this DePo murkiness because his problems as a manager mirror my own. He's great at the fun stuff--finding players, making deals, looking at the team down the road. I'm still very optimistic about his player personnel strategy. He's not so great at the "managing" part. He hasn't figured out a rhythm with his bosses, and when confronted with a troublesome employee, he's not sure what to do. I just hope his deficiences in the second part of his job don't cost the Dodgers his capabilities to do the first part.
2005-10-01 14:31:58
129.   Bob Timmermann

I'm convinced that the majority of Dodger Thoughts readers don't like Jason Phillips.

2005-10-01 14:32:20
130.   willhite
Assuming that JT isn't back next year, his succesor will be someone with

A) no major league managerial experience
B) no "star" power

In this system, the GM needs to be the star, so I'm betting against Baker, Lou and any other names like that, as well as Orel because he would become more important than the system

2005-10-01 14:36:15
131.   Bob Timmermann
This is how T.J. Simers thinks DePodesta is searching for a new manager:

manager high ops obedient -sacrifice -"stolen bases"

2005-10-01 14:36:38
132.   dzzrtRatt
126 Sure. My mind gets opened up all the time by stuff I read here. Fearing Blue, who is nowadays unable to post much, has destroyed many of my half-baked notions. Bob corrected me just yesterday on the location of the old Wrigley Field, and I have now incorporated this fact into my weltanschaung.
2005-10-01 14:40:46
133.   Vishal
[132] i guess it happens moreso on factual stuff. and i wasn't trying to single you or myself or anyone out. i just feel like often times on subjective or nuanced matters especially, people just tend to talk past each other. that doesn't mean it isn't fun or worthwhile, but people seem to stick to their guns a lot.
2005-10-01 14:41:30
134.   Bob Timmermann
But telling you where Wrigley Field was located wasn't changing your opinion. You just misremembered something.
2005-10-01 14:42:00
135.   Bob Timmermann

Yeah, that's your opinion!

2005-10-01 14:43:25
136.   willhite
133 -

I've always felt that blogs were used far more to throw opinions out on the net than to consider the wisdom of what others have to say. It's an ego thing.

2005-10-01 14:45:48
137.   dzzrtRatt
134 Well it was the best example I could think of at the moment. Vishal is pretty much correct, actually. One of the things I like about Dodger Thoughts is that, to some degree, people who disagree stick around and try to be persuasive. The political blogs are now all shrines to conformity. You can't post a contrarian thought on either a left- or a right-wing blog without being burned at the stake. Only true believers allowed. This place is an oasis of pure reason by comparison.
2005-10-01 14:48:01
138.   willhite
137 -

Kindly name 3 staunch supporters of Jim Tracy who regularly contribute to this site. People of like opinions tend to gather in the same places.

2005-10-01 14:48:42
139.   Blue Bases
I have to get in on this one.

It's funny how my thoughts have changed in just one weeks time. A week ago, I wanted Tracy to retain his job and I wanted Bradley to be DFA'd. I felt that Tracy, while not ideal, was at least workable. Bradley because of his many problems was not worth the risk. Now I feel that Tracy has been too insubordanate to stay and that Bradley with all of his warts is still the best option we have as an outfielder next year. If I have learned anything from being a Dodger fan these past few years, it's that no matter what move is made, right or wrong, we are going to be slammed for it. I would rather see a team win with a problem outfielder, who I think can be accepted back by the fans and the team, than lose because Tracy won't play certain people for no apparent reason. I think that a manager that is on the same page as the GM and knows the players of the present and the future would be a big improvement. I would favor Jerry Royster, but I am sure there are others that would fit the bill. I don't think that there will be many coaches on the current team leaving for Pittsbugh or where ever Tracy lands. I think that the coaches want to win as well. I am hopefull for whatever happens on Tuesday.

2005-10-01 14:48:54
140.   Fallout
133. Vishal
"people just tend to talk past each other"

Agree. But what I hate most is when someone misrepresents what someone said then turns it against him.

Some are not worth trying to reason with...

Not speaking of you. :)

2005-10-01 14:51:24
141.   Bob Timmermann
Astros back ahead of the Cubs 2-1.

Phillies lead the Nationals 7-2.

2005-10-01 14:52:43
142.   King of the Hobos
130 I have that feeling as well, leading me to believe DePo will interview Ken Oberkfell for the job, as well as Shoemaker and possibly Royster. I'll get a chance to follow Oberkfell in the AFL, thanks to (sorry for posting this so much) Gameday, and I fully intend too. I would have rathered Shoemaker manage the Desert Dogs, as I don't know much about Scott Little (manager of Vero Beach, and manager of the Desert Dogs)
2005-10-01 14:53:18
143.   King of the Hobos
142 I say possibly for Royster, as he doesn't hit the "a" requirement in 130
2005-10-01 14:54:11
144.   dzzrtRatt
138 That presupposes there is an active pro-Jim Tracy contingent out there somewhere. Is there a gathering place?

Nonetheless, there has been a range of opinions on Tracy expressed here, including the owner of the site himself, who has not been shy about opposing the knee-jerk FJT crowd on many occasions. In a 90-loss season, you're not going to find a lot of enthusiastic supporters of any manager. But a range of views has been offered here on the reasons for the Dodgers' failure, and Tracy gets more or less of the blame, depending on the poster. There's a lot of difference on the volatile Choi issue, and no consensus here that I've seen.

2005-10-01 14:54:47
145.   Bob Timmermann
The team that Royster managed was hardly of major league quality.
2005-10-01 14:58:30
146.   willhite
Having already predicted that Orel won't get the job, I do think this franchise urgently needs a legitimate spokesman. McCourt is shifty, DePo is a very smart but a totally uninspiring "face" for the team, so Orel really might be a good choice, assuming he signs on to DePo's game plan.

I've always thought Lasorda was an egotistical phony but he was the best voice this team ever had.

2005-10-01 15:06:28
147.   Fallout
146. willhite

Yeah. I think that I can agree with that...

2005-10-01 15:06:58
148.   Bob Timmermann
Astros go ahead 3-1.
2005-10-01 15:16:45
149.   willhite
10 min left in the 3rd qtr
ASU 21
SC 10

SC just fumbled. ASU first play intercepted. Getting interesting but SC has to win and remain undefeated so that Cal can beat them.

2005-10-01 15:22:45
150.   Bob Timmermann
Cal will have enough trouble with UCLA next Saturday in My Personal Internal Conflict Bowl.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-01 15:26:43
151.   willhite
Bob -

I have no conflict, having only attended Cal; however, I completely agree with you

Now 21-17 ASU

2005-10-01 15:27:55
152.   Bob Timmermann
Cal's season depends upon whether or not the starting QB can overcome the football equivalent of Steve Blass Disease.
2005-10-01 15:29:40
153.   sanchez101
My only problem with the talk of Hersheiser is that i dont understand why texas would let him go. Dont they have to give permission to the dodgers to even talk to him?
2005-10-01 15:31:47
154.   willhite
153 -

I don't think his contract extends beyond this year, but maybe someone else could confirm that

2005-10-01 15:32:57
155.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think too many teams refuse their coaches an opportunity to interview for a managerial position. It's hard to attract coaches that way.
2005-10-01 15:33:58
156.   Bob Timmermann
Going to the 9th in Houston. Lidge coming into pitch. 3-1 Houston.
2005-10-01 15:40:09
157.   Bob Timmermann
Astros win 3-1.

Clinch a tie for the wild card.

Phillies lead the Nationals 8-3 in the 7th.

Oswalt vs. Maddux tomorrow.

2005-10-01 16:52:19
158.   Jonathan
For some reason, the draft order has been the only thing on my mind the past few days. I guess it's the only real ramification of the outcome of these last few Dodger games.

Best case scenario:
Seattle wins tomorrow
Dodgers lose today and tomorrow
tied for 5th draft pick
(Does anyone know how these ties are resolved?)

Worst case scenario:
Dodgers win today and tomorrow
Detroit loses today and tomorrow
Baltimore loses today and tomorrow
LA and Baltimore tied for 8th pick.

2005-10-01 17:00:00
159.   dzzrtRatt
Baseball fans have no history of showing any interest in draft position, unlike football & basketball fans. I guess it's because the journey from draft pick to major leaguer is so protracted and unpredictable, whereas football and basketball draft picks wind up on the team the following season. If people start making more noise about the baseball draft, I suppose we might see an NBA style lottery "to preserve the integrity of the game."
2005-10-01 17:01:57
160.   Jonathan
It's exactly that protracted, unpredictable journey of the prospect that makes it so fascinating.
2005-10-01 17:07:54
161.   Jonathan
Orioles are up 4-2 in the eighth. If they win today the Dodgers can't fall to the 8th pick.
Detroit is scoreless in the fourth.

Does anyone know a good early summary of the players that will be available in the draft?

2005-10-01 17:12:43
162.   King of the Hobos
Of course, that number is not just Rule IV draft position (amateur if you must). It's also waiver position (think Duaner) and Rule V position (think Houlton, or even guys like Santana and Sisco). The waiver is especially big if the Yankees inexplicably put Matusi on waivers (they have to if they don't resign him), as Seattle, Detroit, and Baltimore would all love him I'm sure
2005-10-01 17:17:11
163.   Jonathan
Yeah. This is important.
I'm also praying that a team in the top half of the standings signs the Weav-ster so the Dodgers get their first round pick. If only FA signings affected Rule 5 draft and waiver-claim order...
2005-10-01 17:21:05
164.   dzzrtRatt
If draft/waiver/Rule IV position can generate interest in a game between Baltimore in Tampa Bay, then maybe Bud Selig should start hyping it more. I await Harold Reynolds' analysis of the vast significance of tonight's Detroit vs. Minnesota contest.
2005-10-01 17:21:25
165.   dzzrtRatt
"and" not "in"
2005-10-01 17:22:27
166.   King of the Hobos
Anyone think Ryan Dempster's 3 year, $15.5 million deal will set the market price like Benson did last year? I realize the deal is smaller (Benson was 3 year, $22.5 mil), but I could see it making an impact. Guys like Farnsworth will now demand a 3 year, $15.5 mil minimum, with guys like Wagner and Ryan demanding far more than that. Dempster has had a total of 60 good innings this year, which is easily the best 60 innings of his career. He literally got a contract for 60 innings. Guys like Wagner and Ryan can easily use that excuse, making their market Boston and New York. Guys like Byrd could also use it to some degree (he's had more success than Dempster in his career), which would increase the price of starting pitching

Anyone else think this could be a problem?

And in a totally unrelated thought, I think DePo should give an invitation to Brian Anderson hoping reverts to his '03 self. If that doesn't work, we have a Vegas pitcher with the best right handed pickoff move in the game. Of course, thoughts of Erickson on the roster so long make me think this might not be so wise

2005-10-01 17:23:23
167.   King of the Hobos
166 Brian Anderson is a lefty...but he still has a heck of a pickoff move. I should really check next time. He does bat right handed...
2005-10-01 17:25:03
168.   King of the Hobos
163 Actually, I recommend praying for the 15th best team to take him. Teams 16-30 lose their second round pick, like with Beltre
2005-10-01 17:27:04
169.   Sam DC
Back from the Nats game. Only skimmed the comments, but I don't understand what Ratt thinks the Dodgers have done wrong. Maybe I'm just hopelessly pro-DePodesta (though I don't think that's the case) but he seems to me to have been classy and complimentary towards Tracy all season. Now, at the end, he is answering questions in a somewhat vague, but not dishonest or disrepectful, way that seems completely professional. Maybe I'm missing something.

Gary Majewski signed a ball for my big kid before the game today. He's got it by his bed. Any predictions for likelihood that Gary Majewski becomes a big star? Didn't think so.

Man -- Jimmy Rollins creamed the first pitch of the game for a double; just creamed it. Took a lot of wind out of the sails of the many, many fans who had been screaming "not today, Jimmy."

Ryan Howard hit what must be the longest or close to it home run of the year at RFK. Towering upper deck shot.

When John Patterson came out in the sixth, despite a very flat outing, he got a huge ovation from the crowd for his great year. It was nice. A little Losers Dividend of its own in some ways.

Every home game a fan gets to pick a National and if that Nat hits a home run, the fan gets two round trip plane tickets anywhere in the country. Today, the fan picked Ryan Church (??) and he came through.

2005-10-01 17:28:50
170.   King of the Hobos
168 That means we're hoping he's signed by Milwaukee, Florida, or Minnesota (all pretty unlikely),as they're in a 3 way tie for 13th. Washington has a chance to go from 16th to 15th, although I doubt they'd be a huge Weaver suitor either
2005-10-01 17:29:56
171.   Steve
Kindly name 3 staunch supporters of Jim Tracy who regularly contribute to this site. People of like opinions tend to gather in the same places.

Kindly name 3 people who opposed Jim Tracy who regularly contributed to this site as of one year ago.

I can give you two. Icaros. Steve. Find a third.

2005-10-01 17:31:40
172.   sanchez101
166. I think ryan dempster's deal will probably impact the free agent market, driving closer/reliever prices higher. But i dont think it will hurt the dodgers as they arent really looking for backend relievers. It may, however, mean that Duaner Sanchez more valuable via trade.

I too am interested in the standings for next years draft; im hoping for the longshot scenario where Justin Upton reenters the draft and LA picks him up, whereupon he moves to CF and immediately becomes Willie Mays. That would make this season worth it. Then again there is reality.

2005-10-01 17:45:44
173.   Icaros
171 And, for the record, I was pretty much a Tracy supporter until this season.

I thought Steve was borderline nuts when he first showed up around here, then he turned out to be right all along.

2005-10-01 17:48:37
174.   Jonathan
Baltimore wins!
Dodgers will have the sixth, seventh, or possibly the fifth draft pick!
2005-10-01 17:51:43
175.   dzzrtRatt
169 I don't understand what Ratt thinks the Dodgers have done wrong. To sum up my various posts into two words: "Appear indecisive."

DePodesta's position seems to be: 'If Jim Tracy accepts my offer of a one-year contract extension, he's my manager for the next two years. But I don't really want him to stay.' I'm 'hopelessly pro-DePodesta' too, but this episode demonstrates (to me) his weaknesses as an organizational leader.

Some folks thought I was knocking DePodesta for being unkind to Tracy. I was not.

2005-10-01 17:53:55
176.   dzzrtRatt
It would be something if in Tracy's resignation speech, he said, "Steve and Icaros will have to find someone else to kick around, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference."
2005-10-01 17:55:12
177.   Sam DC
A number of people on this site were recently convinced that Tom Glavine has had a better career than Nolan Ryan. Others who participated in the same discussion were not convinced. Minds have gone up down sideways and back on MIlton Bradley and there are still widely different views on that subject. Kent too -- when he was signed multiple views reigned, and esp. re could he play defense. Difference of opinion even exists and is regularly expressed re, wait for it, the value/potential of Hee-Seop Choi, although there is a pretty broad consensus that he should have played more. Major differences still get expressed on the actual value of the Dodgers' farm system, and how to build for next year, what players to get, etc. Were you here for the Adam Dunn Chronicles. I'll admit that some "conventional wisdom" gets entrenched pretty quickly, but I really don't find this a preaching to the choir environment. And that process of developing a "conventional wisdom" amounts to people engaging and over time coming to accept views originally held by others. Isn't that the whole idea.

/rant off

2005-10-01 17:55:21
178.   Icaros
175 That's not what is happening. Where did you hear that DePodesta offered a one-year contract extension? Tracy has an option for next year, that's it, but it won't be used either way.

What the Dodgers have said is that on Tuesday they will announce whether Tracy has been fired outright (yes) or given the multi-year extension that he has requested (no).

2005-10-01 18:00:18
179.   Sam DC
If it wasn't clear, rant was directed at 138.

175 I see what you're saying Ratt. To me, it doesn't really look indecisive; it looks like he's made up his mind but circumstances require him not to confirm all the way. But I've certainly not tracked the story or the various statements/comments he's made.

And I'm foolish enough to think the whole Green trade/no trade/trade thing actually made him look confident.

2005-10-01 18:01:58
180.   Icaros
From the LAT:

He has requested a two-year extension that would give him security through 2008. The Dodgers are mulling whether to offer a one-year extension. But if an agreement can't be reached in the next few days, the Dodgers would fire him and pay his 2006 base salary of $700,000 if he doesn't find another job.

I see where you're getting that now, DR, but I don't read "mulling" as an actual offer.

2005-10-01 18:02:03
181.   King of the Hobos
175 This makes me think of the Mike Magnante situation discussed in Moneyball. Beane wanted him gone immediately, but didn't want to release Magnante himself. DePo didn't either, but he wasn't a "leader" at that point. Howe had to do it. I'd hardly call Beane a good leader in the situation, as he refused to talk to Magnante. At least DePo is willing to discuss it, and not look like a thoughtless jerk of a leader. Maybe this is completely off, especially as beane isn't the best comparison...
2005-10-01 18:02:18
182.   Sam DC
177 And looking back, it might not have been clear that the Adam Dunn point was that people of strongly differeing views participated in lengthy discussions on that subject over a period of time. Some minds were changed, some were not, some people ignored the whole thing. But to me that was a classic non-monolithic-Dodger-Thoughts moment.
2005-10-01 18:06:15
183.   Icaros
I will say that if Jim Tracy comes back to manage the Dodgers after the things he's said and done this season, I will lose mucho respect for Paul DePodesta.
2005-10-01 18:10:16
184.   DaveP
As a showcase for the young guys, I'd like to see Jackson go 6 innings, hand off to Kuo for the 7th and Broxton pitch the 8th and 9th.

Aybar wins it with HR in 9th.

Is that too much to ask for?

Forgot one other thing. Ben Olson takes over for Drew Olson in 2nd half and leads UCLA to victory.

2005-10-01 18:12:33
185.   Louis in SF
I have been listening to the A's broadcast and also heard the last interview with Ron Washington for this season by the A's. Washington was asked about what he liked to best in his job and he stated his interest in teaching young players. Next year the Dodgers will have at least some players coming up from Double A, along with some of the rookies we had this year. He knows the DePodesta system, he played for the Dodgers and if given a two year or three year deal his contract than is on the same timeline as DePodesta's, it allows Washington to have a learning year as manager with primarily young players his strength. It seems to me a no-brainer.
2005-10-01 18:23:44
186.   Steve
I thought Steve was borderline nuts when he first showed up around here

There hasn't been anything that should have changed your mind.

2005-10-01 18:24:37
187.   dzzrtRatt
183 From DePodesta, a cold 'no comment' to every question about Tracy would have been totally justified by Tracy's actions and statements over the final weeks of the season. By trying to make it seem like they were just having 'creative differences,' it looked like he was trying to appease Tracy--as if he was a little bit afraid of him. If there was some reason to withhold the news of Tracy's dismissal til the end of the season, that's understandable; then DePo should've just stopped talking about it.
2005-10-01 18:30:14
188.   Icaros
187 I agree with you there, though I don't know if it seems so much as DePo being afraid of Tracy as it does DePo caring too much about Tracy's bumpkin feelings.
2005-10-01 18:30:19
189.   D4P
Myrow earns another start tonight. Guess that's Tracy's way of thumbing his nose at Depo a few final times.
2005-10-01 18:31:08
190.   D4P
This is what has confused me all along. Since when has Depo cared about "feelings"?
2005-10-01 18:35:28
191.   Vishal

i don't mean to speak for anyone, but how about say... fallout, bojangles, tommy naccarato?

2005-10-01 18:38:06
192.   King of the Hobos
Tracy has clearly decided to call it quits on the season finally. Not sure how to explain Myrow over Choi, guess the team hasn't quite deccided how good he is. Maybe he should play left with Choi at 1B...

2B Aybar
3B Perez
SS Robles
RF Cruz
C Navarro
1B Myrow
LF Edwards
CF Repko
P Jackson

I don't like Repko, but he's done nothing to deserve hitting behind Myrow and Edwards

2005-10-01 18:39:54
193.   Icaros
190 Maybe by always supporting him and saying nice things about him no matter what stupid things Tracy has done and said this year.

But I don't know. I don't claim to have knowledge of the interpersonal relationships of people I've never met based solely on snippits from tabloid newspapers.

That's why I don't really care who says what and how, I just want Tracy gone.

2005-10-01 18:42:28
194.   D4P
I think you misunderstood me. My point was, why is that Depo cares so much about Tracy's feelings when feelings never seemed to impact his decisions before?
2005-10-01 18:43:34
195.   Steve
191 -- That was an easy question. Bob T (apparently, til a couple of days ago), Jim Hitchcock, and Eric Enders. My question was much harder.
2005-10-01 18:45:05
196.   Telemachos
194 I think folks are reading too much into Depo's comments... what he's essentially saying is a "no comment" while providing little or new material... pretty standard boilerplate, actually.
2005-10-01 18:45:33
197.   King of the Hobos
185 He does a great job with the young players from what I've heard, so it's not that he just likes to work with them. He also is supposedly amazing with helping on defense, Chavez, Johnson, and Crosby were all considered fairly weak tio average defenders, now they're all above average. From my reading, he's fairly traditional which means his in game decisions might be less than excepted at times, but he'd be far more willing to play the young guys like Choi and Perez when Tracy wouldn't

That said, I'm sure he's not our lone savior. There also is the competition issues, the DRays have been associated his name (and he admitted he'd like to manage them if asked, I'll try to find the quote), and Macha could be gone from Oakland (his contract is up, but supposedly Beane likes his AAA manger, not sure how true this is)

2005-10-01 18:46:26
198.   dzzrtRatt
This weekend might be Myrow's and Edwards' last opportunities to play in the bigs. Tracy might be thumbing his nose at DePo, or he might be just trying to earn some Kevin Costner/Bull Durham brownie points by giving them one last taste of the Show.
2005-10-01 18:50:55
199.   Steve
198 is right. Who cares who plays first base any more? We already know Tracy hates Choi. What's a start the day before the season ends going to do? If he started Choi, that would probably be more disrespectful to him than benching him again.

196 is also right. I think this is deconstructing a lot of stuff that was not meant to be deconstructed. DePodesta does not say anything worthwhile to the local media, because the local media has brains the size of Jiminy Cricket's hat.

2005-10-01 18:52:24
200.   King of the Hobos
197 The quote is here:

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-10-01 18:58:42
201.   Gen3Blue
I'm stunned because I think Depo feels he has got a few years building to do and the manager makes no difference. I think it will be Tracy gone or Tracy here for 2 or 3 years but nothing in between.
2005-10-01 19:01:41
202.   Jonathan
If I counted right, it looks like the Dodgers will play the Pirates TEN times next season... Is this as weird as I think it is?
2005-10-01 19:01:55
203.   Uncle Miltie
If Tracy returns, then this will be more devastating than losing Beltre (at the time). Hopefully, Depodesta hires Ron Washington. He really enjoys working with young players and could help Antonio Perez, Aybar, and Choi improve defensively (not that Aybar needs to improve defensively THAT much). Washington made Chavez a gold glover, Crosby a good defender, and Dan Johnson an acceptable defender.
2005-10-01 19:05:13
204.   Uncle Miltie
"Manuel, like Robinson, understands his team, too - especially its weaknesses and deficiencies; though Manuel wasn't nearly as candid as Robinson about that sort of thing.

"The lineup can get better," Manuel said, dodging questions about trying Howard in the outfield, a quickly aborted experiment last spring.

Robinson was more pointed, concerning two huge Nationals disappointments - Brad Wilkerson and free-agent bust Cristian Guzman (4 years, $16.8 million).

Wilkerson, meanwhile, could finish with 150 strikeouts for the fourth straight season - or, ever since he's been a full-time big-leaguer.

"Good hitters don't stay in slumps. He does, for months," said Robinson, who watched Wilkerson hit .242 or worse in each month since April after doing the same for 3 months last season."
I used to like Frank Robinson, but I think he is becoming senile. Hopefully Jim Bowden feels the same way about Wilkerson as Robinson does.

2005-10-01 19:06:43
205.   Uncle Miltie
Klesko just shows what a horrible defender he is on a routine flyball.
2005-10-01 19:08:38
206.   clopez
202. yeah, what's going on here? i just looked up the Angels v. Yankees head-to-head this season (wondering who'll host round 1) and it's 6-4, Angels. I've long thought you only play once at home/once on the road against non-division teams (max total of 8 games). Am I missing some "leap-year" business here?
2005-10-01 19:10:38
207.   Uncle Miltie
Is Mike Piazza catching for the Padres?

Good at bat by Robles, even though he swung at ball 4 once.

2005-10-01 19:11:18
208.   Uncle Miltie
Terrible at bat by Cruz. I guess he wanted to have a Kent-quality at bat.
2005-10-01 19:13:20
209.   King of the Hobos
206 I think you're a little too accustomed to the NL, where there's 16 teams. There's 14 in the AL, so you play others slightly more. Plus they're in the 4 team West, and they want to limit the number of games they're forced to see the same team
2005-10-01 19:13:26
210.   Gen3Blue
I'm not getting the D's-Padres game on DTV ch739 as I should be-- anyone with the same problem?
2005-10-01 19:14:24
211.   Jonathan
206 - I'll take 10 games against Pittsburgh! Hopefully the Giants and Padres each play St Louis ten times.
2005-10-01 19:16:30
212.   Uncle Miltie
Nice play by Perez
2005-10-01 19:17:02
213.   King of the Hobos
I forgot Perez is at 3rd. At first, I thought it was Aybar and just assumed it was him making plays he usually makes. But i really have to applaud Perez, that was a nice play
2005-10-01 19:18:46
214.   Uncle Miltie
Jackson just hit 95
2005-10-01 19:19:09
215.   DaveP
Klesko looks a lot smaller than in the past. I'm sure he just decided to get on a strenous exercise program over the winter to slim down and put less pounding on his joints, ala Barry, Ivan Rodriguez and Sosa.
2005-10-01 19:20:21
216.   DaveP
215 - "strenous" = strenuous
2005-10-01 19:20:54
217.   Uncle Miltie
A rare bad at bat by Giles. Jackson has a decent first inning.
2005-10-01 19:21:25
218.   King of the Hobos
215 But he's hit twice as many homers as he did last year! But in overall power production, there's a very obvious decline lately, and his new image doesn't help him
2005-10-01 19:22:05
219.   Uncle Miltie
Base hit by Myrow, would Choi have done that?
2005-10-01 19:22:23
220.   King of the Hobos
I'm predicting Myrow goes for the cycle. Not sure why, it just seems appropriate
2005-10-01 19:24:37
221.   DaveP
218 - with the lowest slugging percentage of his career.

I can't imagine a more boring topic to discuss than steroid usage right now. Sorry about that. back to the game :)

2005-10-01 19:24:41
222.   clopez
209- ahhh. Much appreciated.
211- me too. not to advocate degeneracy here, but taking the Dodgers on the moneyline against the Pirates 10 times in one season could only mean good things...
2005-10-01 19:25:09
223.   dzzrtRatt
Does anyone know why Washburn was taken out after two innings tonight in Texas? Was he hurt, or is Scoscia just saving his arm?
2005-10-01 19:29:45
224.   Uncle Miltie
Jackson hits 94
2005-10-01 19:30:39
225.   DaveP
223 - just checked angel message board and they say Washburn was only scheduled to pitch a couple innings to stay sharp for the playoffs.
2005-10-01 19:30:45
226.   Uncle Miltie
Jackson looks like he can reach back when he wants to but would rather throw 89-90 with better control. He is hanging is changeup, which should be his outpitch.
2005-10-01 19:31:00
227.   regfairfield
"Good hitters don't stay in slumps. He does, for months," said Robinson, who watched Wilkerson hit .242 or worse in each month since April after doing the same for 3 months last season."

What the hell?

While I really don't see that much difference between Werth and Wilkerson, if this is how his organization feels about him, I'll gladly take him.

2005-10-01 19:31:58
228.   King of the Hobos
Just because I wanted to do the math...If the Angels played all non-division teams 6 times a year, they'd play them 60 times. They also play about 18 interleague games. That means they play the West 84 times, good for 28 games per team. Under these same condidtions, the Dodgers play division teams 19.5 times (20 if you like). 8 games isn't a huge difference, but I'm guessing the league wants to make things slightly more even
2005-10-01 19:32:53
229.   clopez
"should've been gone" they'll whine...
2005-10-01 19:33:03
230.   Uncle Miltie
227- Repko for Wilkerson? Repko doesn't slump, he consistently hits between .220-.230
2005-10-01 19:34:38
231.   King of the Hobos
Jackson just went from 93 to 79, and Randa missed badly

230 I'd do that in an instant. I'm willing to bet Bowden would too. DePo better pull it off before the new owners replace Bowden

2005-10-01 19:36:13
232.   clopez
228- interesting.
but how can the Dodger and Pirates face off 10 times in one season?
2005-10-01 19:36:37
233.   Uncle Miltie
I don't like how Jackson is getting a lot of flyballs and no strikeouts, but whatever works...
2005-10-01 19:39:09
234.   Uncle Miltie
Just another walk for Aybar...
2005-10-01 19:44:18
235.   Uncle Miltie
Jimbo screws up again. Hit and running 2-0, forcing Robles to swing and make an out.
2005-10-01 19:52:16
236.   DaveP
Funny headline recapping Dodger season on ESPN's page 2:

2005-10-01 19:52:27
237.   dzzrtRatt
225 Thanks.

Chances are the Angels will be playing the Yankees. Washburn does well against them.

2005-10-01 19:59:44
238.   King of the Hobos
I've read numerous times that Giles' defense is deteriorating, and he'll have to be signed as a DH. I just don't see it. Is it just me? He still has a good arm, and he seems to get excellent reads on fly balls. I've seen him make plays that most OFs could make, but they need to dive to do it while he does it standing up (yes, I'm looking at you Mr Repko).
2005-10-01 20:01:53
239.   Uncle Miltie
238- on of the balls hit to Giles, he got a poor jump and had to make a catcher running towards the CF wall reaching above his head.
2005-10-01 20:03:59
240.   Uncle Miltie
Another 1 pitch at bat by Giles. Maybe he is sending a message to the Dodgers: don't sign me.
2005-10-01 20:06:13
241.   Uncle Miltie
Jackson is still without a strike out, but gets a couple groundballs.
2005-10-01 20:07:01
242.   King of the Hobos
239 I'll admit he's not perfect. He's also not a CF. I was actually referring to games earlier in the season where he was catching balls down the line that the Dodgers RFs couldn't catch. He very well may be getting slow and useless, I don't watch him enough. I just don't see him as only good as a DH. And I'm sure he could destroy Manny in OF defense
2005-10-01 20:08:27
243.   Uncle Miltie
Repko is a starter!
2005-10-01 20:09:06
244.   sanchez101
i think jackson is probably the best running pitcher in the game.
2005-10-01 20:10:11
245.   King of the Hobos
241 Seems to me that Jackson is just trying to pitch, and not playing around to get the strike out. While he's not getting the strike outs, he's got very good control compared to the last few times. 58 pitches after 4 innings for him is very good, he typically is reaching 100 by the 5th inning

And he's a good hitter. Maybe not as good as Repko (or maybe he is), bet still very good. Also has some good speed. A very able replacement for Weaver

2005-10-01 20:11:35
246.   Uncle Miltie
244- not baserunning though
2005-10-01 20:12:21
247.   Uncle Miltie
Nice at bat by Perez
2005-10-01 20:20:51
248.   DaveP
only 1 more inning from Jackson for my master plan to stay in effect:

Jackson --> Kuo --> Broxton

and to top it off, Drew Olson is playing poorly for UCLA so we may see the second half of my plan: Ben Olson comes in and leads the comeback.

2005-10-01 20:21:34
249.   Nagman
Its amazing what announcers say about a team other than the one they usually cover. SD TV guy, Matt Vasgersian, implied that Tracy is being made a scapegoat, and his firing is "sports at its worst".

Oh yeah, he also said the Dodgers should get Piazza back and platoon him at first. The team is crying out for a marquee name and a clubhouse leader.

2005-10-01 20:22:54
250.   Uncle Miltie
Great..I think I'd take Jackson out now. He might be tired from that base hit.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-10-01 20:24:29
251.   Uncle Miltie
Jackson gets out of it. Broxton should pitch in the 6th inning.
2005-10-01 20:30:28
252.   King of the Hobos
Too bad if Jackson's done, he had a very good night. Maybe didn't K anyone, but he was effective. At least he got his ERA down a point
2005-10-01 20:32:38
253.   Nagman
Have they said who is starting tomorrow? I assume its not Weaver.
2005-10-01 20:34:37
254.   Nagman
Never mind, read that its Elmer.
2005-10-01 20:36:41
255.   King of the Hobos
Broxton makes 7 pitches and still manages a K. I guess tonight is Pitch Really Fast Night for the youngsters
2005-10-01 20:37:02
256.   Uncle Miltie
"Only" one K for Broxton, but no walks
2005-10-01 20:39:14
257.   Uncle Miltie
Edwards silences the drunk crowd with a base hit
2005-10-01 20:40:12
258.   King of the Hobos
Just bat Broxton, he made 7 pitches. We're not trying to win, we're trying to see what Broxton can do. I'm sure Broxton is better than Valentin anyways
2005-10-01 20:40:31
259.   Uncle Miltie
Valentin hitting. Does Tracy want to boost Chan Ho's strike out numbers?
2005-10-01 20:42:12
260.   Uncle Miltie
Valentin is at his best when he doesn't swing.
2005-10-01 20:44:11
261.   Uncle Miltie
Willy is clutch. Bochy is an excellent manager.
2005-10-01 20:47:21
262.   Uncle Miltie
Very poor at bat by Perez.
2005-10-01 20:47:31
263.   King of the Hobos
I'm a little surprised Hensley is pitching, as Bochy said he has a good chance to be the 3rd or 4th starter in the playoffs. Pedro Astacio is 2nd, with Eaton as Hensley's competition...
2005-10-01 20:51:49
264.   D4P
Steiner and Monday are talking about how exhausted Kent is at this point in the season. That's fine when the team misses the playoffs, but wouldn't be such a good thing if they were headed for the post-season. And if he's broken down at age 37, he's likely to be worse next year at this time.
2005-10-01 21:02:15
265.   King of the Hobos
For those who care, the winner of the 40 yard dash at the instructional league was the newly drafted Trayvon Robinson at 6.1 seconds. He beat Ryan Carter (a strong OF who slugged .536 in half a season of Columbus, but is old and has no patience), who came in at 6.2 seconds. This kinda shows how strong the prospect speed is, as none of our higehr guys have much speed. Good thing DePo doesn't like it much, as it seems to be White's weakness
2005-10-01 21:06:35
266.   Uncle Miltie
Hold you breath, Brazoban is pitching the 8th..
2005-10-01 21:07:33
267.   Uncle Miltie
Leadoff walk to the powerful Burroughs (Mike Edwards' twin brother?)
2005-10-01 21:08:43
268.   D4P
No worries: Gio's warming up in the pen.
2005-10-01 21:09:04
269.   bill cox
uh,"broken down at age 37".Isn't that a little bit over the top in describing a guy who just led the team in at bats as well as every other offensive category of note?No doubt he ought to be in the lineup to solidify the Dodger hold on 4th place.
2005-10-01 21:10:12
270.   Uncle Miltie
A DP for Brazoban? Nice turn by Aybar. In comes the LOOGY, Kuo.
2005-10-01 21:10:53
271.   D4P
"Broken down" are Steiner's words, not mine. I'm just the messenger.
2005-10-01 21:13:20
272.   Uncle Miltie
Nice job by Kuo
2005-10-01 21:14:00
273.   King of the Hobos
Tracy proves that Kuo is one heck of a LOOGY. Oh, wait...
2005-10-01 21:18:45
274.   Uncle Miltie
Why was Edwards running? Only 1 more game...1 more game...
2005-10-01 21:20:19
275.   D4P
So that no one would be on base when Choi came up. Tracy appears to prefer it that way.
2005-10-01 21:20:45
276.   King of the Hobos

I'm not going to bother to paraphrase...
Manager Jim Tracy had no comment Saturday regarding his employment status, which continued to be the subject of media speculation.

One report had the Dodgers pondering whether to fire Tracy or give him a one-year contract extension by Tuesday. But general manager Paul DePodesta said keeping Tracy as manager without an extension also remains a possibility.

"We're still evaluating every possible option," he said.

Tracy has a one week window (beginning on Monday) to void the final year of his contract. DePodesta is leaving Wednesday for his sister's wedding in Italy and said he was hopeful a resolution would come before then, perhaps in a face-to-face meeting early next week.

As for Aybar at 2B

"I want to see [Aybar] play nine innings and see how he interacts and responds to offensive situations in the middle of the infield instead of on the corner," said manager Jim Tracy.

And Kent

"He's done. That's enough," said Tracy. He's given this manager anything and everything that can be asked of one player."

And something I found interesting

A Dodgers official shot down a rumor circulating in the San Diego clubhouse that Kent had demanded a trade. Kent is completing the first year of a two-year contract.

Penny decided to rest his arm apparently, meaning he doesn't get a $25 bonus he would have got with 4.2 more innings

Bako says DePo's talk to him about a contract. He's with the team now because there' hurricane winds where he normally lives

2005-10-01 21:23:36
277.   Uncle Miltie
Defensive "liability" Antonio Perez comes out of the game, Edwards moves to 3B.
2005-10-01 21:24:12
278.   sanchez101
edwards at 3rd for perez? is tracy trying to get fired?
2005-10-01 21:25:22
279.   Jon Weisman
276 -

I think you can just post a link to the notes. You don't need to reprint at length something everyone has access to.

2005-10-01 21:27:35
280.   King of the Hobos
279 If you insist, but you told me a little late. I realize I get a little out of hand with the length, sorry about that...
2005-10-01 21:27:51
281.   Uncle Miltie
278- yes, he wants that $700,000
2005-10-01 21:29:13
282.   King of the Hobos
We've lost the coveted 5th pick in the draft. We're now competing for 6th, we have the same record as Detroit
2005-10-01 21:32:32
283.   Jon Weisman
280 - It's just better web etiquette to do so, and doesn't steal their page views.
2005-10-01 21:33:34
284.   Uncle Miltie
Aybar looked good at 2B and at the plate plate
Jackson had a pretty decent outing, walking only 1, but not recording a strike out
The young guys pitched well out of the bullpen
Brazoban didn't give up a HR
Tracy might manage his last game with the Dodgers tomorrow
Tracy is still here
Navarro has stopped walking
2005-10-01 22:46:03
285.   alex 7
Navarros hit a HR a few days ago right? I know I stopped walking for a few games too after hitting any of my few high school or college HRs back in the day. I'd say it probably still happens in the majors. Figure it's just an overconfidence thing and not that he's lost his eye all of a sudden. He'll learn.
2005-10-01 22:46:34
286.   alex 7
hmm, I guess I wish we had two of him.
2005-10-02 00:16:40
287.   Bob Timmermann
A $25 bonus. That's all Penny would get. TWENTY-FIVE?

I think we're missing some 000s aren't we?

2005-10-02 01:19:16
288.   Icaros
Hey, don't knock it. $25 will get you a whole day of parking in San Francisco.
2005-10-02 01:35:43
289.   Strike4
288 - or Penny could've bought a round of milk for the clubhouse attendants.
2005-10-02 03:11:58
290.   dzzrtRatt
The Padres, at 81-80, have the same record as the Nationals. The Padres are in first place. The Nats are in last place.

They also have the same record as the Brewers. The good news is, that record is good enough for third place in the NL Central. The bad news is, they'd be 18 games out of first, and seven games out of second.

2005-10-02 06:18:39
291.   Vishal
[276] "responds to offensive situations in the middle of the infield"??

does he mean defensive situations? or is he trying to suggest that aybar will hit differently because he's playing second base rather than third.

2005-10-02 06:24:09
292.   Sam DC
Miltie, or anyone, do you know the source of the quote in 204?
2005-10-02 07:24:25
293.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Henson has a good piece on Tracy and the season; he seems to think Tracy's return distinctly unlikely:

For me, at least, this was the money quote of Henson's, in response to Tracy's complaints about the off-season:

However, nearly every player DePodesta declined to bring back has performed poorly for their new teams. Even the seemingly endless parade of Dodger third basemen, for example, have combined for a higher on-base plus slugging percentage (.723) than Adrian Beltre (.721), whose departure ignited a firestorm of criticism.


2005-10-03 05:07:22
294.   John A
Another tidbit from the Monday Henson piece:
...DePodesta, who inherited a team that won the 2004 National League West title in his first year and dismantled it with disastrous results.
So...DePo gets NO credit for acquiring Finley, getting rid of Out-Machine Encarnacion, etc., and winning the division in '04, but all the blame for 2005.
Sunday, Henson actually conceded that most of the players DePo got rid of this year have been lousy. What a relief to see today that he hasn't entirely abandoned Plaschke-ism.

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