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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Playoff Opening Day
2005-10-03 19:43
by Jon Weisman
Comments (341)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-04 09:39:57
1.   Bob Timmermann
Roberts Cf
Klesko Lf
Loretta 2B
Giles Rf
Sweeney 1b
Hernandez C
Greene Ss
Randa 3b
Peavy P

Eckstein Ss
Edmonds Cf
Pujols 1b
Walker Rf
Sanders Lf
Grudzielanek 2b
Nunez 3b
Molina C
Carpenter P

2005-10-04 09:44:39
2.   Bob Timmermann
The Ex-Dodger factor in the Padres-Cardinals series (Based on the 25-man roster)

Padres 4 - Roberts, Young, Astacio, and Seanez
Cardinals 1 - Grudzielanek

2005-10-04 09:53:22
3.   LAT
Isn't New York at Los Angeles?
2005-10-04 09:54:44
4.   Bob Timmermann
New York at L.A. "starts" at 5. So settle in around 5:30 for the first pitch.
Wednesday's game starts at 7 PDT!

In the words of Nelson Mundt "Hah! Hah!"

2005-10-04 09:55:09
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - you're right/I'll fix.
2005-10-04 10:02:03
6.   Bob Timmermann
Other ex-Dodgers (based on projected rosters)
Boston - Alex Cora
Chicago - Paul Konerko

New York - Bubba Crosby
L.A. of Anaheim - Steve Finley

Houston - Jose Vizcaino
Atlanta - Either Brian Jordan or Todd Hollandsworth (Braves will decide today)

2005-10-04 10:23:53
7.   Bob Timmermann
Well, there's the run the Cardinals needed.
2005-10-04 10:24:55
8.   dzzrtRatt
I'm going to enjoy (hopefully) the dismantling of the Padres by the Cardinals. Off to a great start.
2005-10-04 10:25:37
9.   Improbable88
peavy shutout gone, and with it, any chances the padres had in the series
2005-10-04 10:26:16
10.   Eric Enders
Raise your hand if you hate Jim Edmonds too...
2005-10-04 10:26:58
11.   Improbable88
hand raised
2005-10-04 10:27:36
12.   Eric Enders
I'm glad to see that my wish to hear Vin Scully's voice on an October baseball broadcast again.

I guess I wasn't specific enough in my wish, though. I didn't mean in a silly freaking commercial!

2005-10-04 10:27:57
13.   Eric Enders
there was supposed to be a "has come true" somewhere up there in #12.
2005-10-04 10:28:50
14.   Improbable88
did anyone see the Pujols special about this mentally handicapped daughter and all the tremendous work he does for that community?

it upset me

because i want to hate him

who am i kidding, i still hate him

2005-10-04 10:30:22
15.   Eric Enders
I've never seen Pujols argue that heatedly before. He's usually pretty laid back.
2005-10-04 10:32:34
16.   Improbable88
laid back or not, there's something upsetting about a guy coming out of the minors and dominating a league from day one...though it does give one hope to JtD.
2005-10-04 10:33:48
17.   dzzrtRatt
Hand not raised. Edmonds has been a consistently entertaining players throughout his career. I thought the Angels erred in trading him. The Cardinals would be back in the NL Central pack without him.

Instead, I hate Ryan Klesko. What a baloney player.

2005-10-04 10:34:27
18.   Improbable88
i like seeing eckstein make an error gotta believe the eckstein well dries up can he squeeze such a career out of his meager skills? The guys throws like a tee-baller...just embarassing.
2005-10-04 10:35:19
19.   Improbable88
how can you hate klesko when all he does is underperform against the dodgers?
2005-10-04 10:37:48
20.   Bob Timmermann
I'm surprised Klesko is starting. Ben Johnson had been getting a lot of starts in September because Klesko had a sore neck and was also giving Bochy a sore head.
2005-10-04 10:38:13
21.   Ken Arneson
Given recent history (Scott Brosius, Scott Spiezio, Mark Bellhorn, Keith Foulke, Johnny Damon), the ex-A's factor is a strong and positive force.

Cardinals: Isringhausen, Mulder, Mabry
Padres: Hammond, Hernandez, Olivo (minors only)

Red Sox: Damon, Bradford, Harville
White Sox: Vizcaino, Dye, Cotts (minors)

Angels: DaVanon (minors)
Yankees: Small, Giambi, Sierra

Braves: Hudson
Astros: none

Hmm...perhaps I should adjust my playoff picking theory...

2005-10-04 10:39:56
22.   Eric Enders
Jonson is too busy writing a play about Bill Plaschke. Title: "Devil is an Ass." (1616)
2005-10-04 10:42:21
23.   Eric Enders
The Astros don't have very many ex-anythings. The degree to which their roster is homegrown is pretty amazing.
2005-10-04 10:45:01
24.   Bob Timmermann
For the record, Hammond isn't on the Padres roster for this series.
2005-10-04 10:47:06
25.   Improbable88
does anyone know what radio station the game is on in LA?
2005-10-04 10:47:30
26.   Eric Enders
Klesko says, "Take that, Timmermann!"
2005-10-04 10:49:07
27.   dzzrtRatt
19 I guess my hatred for certain baseball players isn't really based on whether they torment the Dodgers. Instead of hating guys like that, I covet them. The players I tend to hate are those with inflated reputations, excessive self-regard, and lots of alibis. I've hated a few Dodgers for that reason. Eric Karros. Jason Phillips. Ismael Valdes.
2005-10-04 10:58:55
28.   Eric Enders
"The players I tend to hate are those with inflated reputations, excessive self-regard, and lots of alibis"

Can I think of a recent manager who shared all those qualities? The fact of the matter is it's very likely that I might be able to.

List of hated Dodgers:
Scott Erickson
Kevin Brown
Delino DeShields

Jim Edmonds
Jeff Kent (like him as a Dodger though)
Manny Ramirez
Derek Jeter
Rob Dibble
Keith Hernandez
Will Clark
Andy Pettitte

2005-10-04 11:00:31
29.   Nagman
Is this game on the radio in LA? I'd like to avoid listening to Leitner and Coleman on 1090 if at all possible.
2005-10-04 11:01:39
30.   Eric Enders
The current lead headline on AOL news is "Yanks Have No Chance."

If only it were so.

2005-10-04 11:01:57
31.   Ken Arneson
That looked like a slider to me, Joe.
2005-10-04 11:05:33
32.   dzzrtRatt
Jake Peavey 2005 = Odalis Perez 2004
2005-10-04 11:05:41
33.   Ken Arneson
This series is over already.
2005-10-04 11:07:51
34.   dzzrtRatt
According to the LA Times, neither the Cardinal game nor the Sox v. Sox game are on LA radio at all. I think 710 could carry the ESPN radio feed but they aren't.
2005-10-04 11:26:53
35.   Bob Timmermann
Now that I'm listening on my computer at work, I'm faced with the Hobson's choice of Mike Shannon or Ted Leitner.
2005-10-04 11:30:12
36.   Improbable88
The game is on am 710 w/ some standard play-by-play guy and Luis Gonzalez
2005-10-04 11:30:51
37.   Eric Enders
Random factoid: Fifty years ago today, Johnny Podres pitched a great game, Sandy Amoros made a great catch, and, ladies and gentlemen, the Brooklyn Dodgers were champions of the world.
2005-10-04 11:37:35
38.   Bob Timmermann
See, you shouldn't swing 3-0. Sanders should have known to take that pitch.

Sheesh. Doesn't anyone know how to hit?

2005-10-04 11:38:06
39.   Ken Arneson
Wow. Now this series is really over. No way the Padres come back after their best pitcher gets clobbered like that.
2005-10-04 11:38:17
40.   blue22
Love MLB Gameday:

Reggie Sanders hits a grand slam, blah blah blah (Bob Loblaw?).

next item:

Coaching visit to mound.

2005-10-04 11:38:21
41.   dzzrtRatt
Cardinals are sweeping out the garbage from the playoffs.

Maybe Peavey ain't all that; he just looks good in the NL West's diminished competition.

2005-10-04 11:40:19
42.   molokai
Big fan of Jim Edmonds ever since his Angel days. One of the biggest mistakes the Angels ever made was in trading Jim. Liked the way he played then and enjoy him even more that he elevated his game in St Louis. If his reputation is over-stated because of ESPN that is no fault of his. You would be hard pressed to find a better center fielder who has put up his numbers from the age of 30-35 in the last 30 years.

I actually just don't understand the word hate when used with sports. I can't stand Terrel Owens or Randy Moss but "hate", how does that factor in. I'll save my hate for someone who ruins lives like George Bush.

2005-10-04 11:40:58
43.   molokai
2005-10-04 11:41:27
44.   Bob Timmermann
The most runs that Peavy had given up in a game this year was 5.
At Houston, Vs. Seattle, at Detroit, vs. Cleveland, at Cincinnati
2005-10-04 11:44:46
45.   Steve
Was there a game this morning?
2005-10-04 11:47:00
46.   dzzrtRatt
That catch by Edmonds is exactly why people who like him, like him, and why people who hate him, hate him.

Like him: He can run down anything. Got a Seeing-Eye glove. Spectacular.

Hate him: What kind of risky catch is that? Two hands, you showboat!

2005-10-04 11:48:01
47.   molokai
By the way Reggie Sanders would also make a decent one year FA if MB goes away. That way he would only need to play on the Padres and Rockies to have toured the West. Plus he is one heck of good luck charm as his playoff record attests.
2005-10-04 11:49:01
48.   Steve
Reports say Leyland agrees to manage the Tigers.
2005-10-04 11:49:17
49.   Bob Timmermann
Reggie Sanders has already played on the Padres.
2005-10-04 11:51:00
50.   molokai
Exactly how many major leaguers use two hands to catch anything? When Brett Butler started using that butterfly net the need for two hands was gone. This ain't little league.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-04 11:53:26
51.   Bob Timmermann
I guess Leyland picked the wrong year to quit smoking.
2005-10-04 11:54:05
52.   molokai
Your right I missed that year in 99 which started his trend of 1 year stays. Shockingly he wasn't able to get the Pirates to the playoffs, other then that every team since 2000 has made the playoffs plus 3 world series appearances.
2005-10-04 11:55:52
53.   molokai
I wish we had Chris Shelton/ Carlos Guillen/ Curtis Granderson/ Bonderman / Verlander / Zumaya/ Monroe.
2005-10-04 11:59:42
54.   Bob Timmermann
I wish we had Omar Infante, Brandon Inge, Bobby Higginson, Dmitri Young.
2005-10-04 12:08:02
55.   Eric Enders
"I actually just don't understand the word hate when used with sports. I can't stand Terrel Owens or Randy Moss but "hate", how does that factor in. I'll save my hate for someone who ruins lives like George Bush."

Agreed. When I use the word "hate" in a sports context, I mean it as a playful, meaningless sort of hate, not the kind of hate that would cause me to punch out Jim Edmonds if I passed him on the street.

2005-10-04 12:09:03
56.   Eric Enders
"Like him: He can run down anything."

Yeah, after running 20 feet in the wrong direction first.

2005-10-04 12:22:49
57.   Bob Timmermann
Eric hates Jim Edmonds in the same way I hate Russ Ortiz. I doubt we'd go after either guy.

Both of whom could likely kick our butts anyway.

2005-10-04 12:25:27
58.   Improbable88
a sports "hate" is its own how contract lawyer differs from a trial attorney, the two are similar but function in two different worlds...obviously, your George Bush hate is more unrelenting and frustrating...but a sports hate exists nonetheless
2005-10-04 12:26:25
59.   Bob Timmermann
A friend of mine has told me that sports teaches us to hate.
2005-10-04 12:27:37
60.   Improbable88
i think it's similar to your food hates, e.g. I hate mackrel or brussel sprouts
2005-10-04 12:29:36
61.   Improbable88
your friend was probably in the chess and german clubs
2005-10-04 12:32:24
62.   MSarg29
I know it's off the subject, but my brother's story about Jack McKeon ran today.

2005-10-04 12:32:43
63.   popup
Remembering Sandy:

On August 27, 1955, with the Dodgers comfortably in first place, manager Walt Alston started Brooklyn born Sandy Koufax at Ebbets Field against the hard hitting Cincinnati Redlegs. Sandy gave up a hit to Ted Kluszewski in the first and then proceeded to hold the Redlegs without a hit until the ninth.

Leading 7-0, Sandy surrendered a two out double to Sam Mele in the ninth. With the shutout on the line, Sandy retired former Dodger Rocky Bridges on a pop up to Pee Wee Reese to complete an impressive 14 strikeout, 2 hit shutout for his first major league victory. His pitching line was 9 innings pitched, 2 hits, 5 walks, 14 strikeouts and no runs allowed.

Thanks to the book Koufax, written by Sandy and Ed Linn, and retrosheet.

Just wondering if anyone has heard Vin talk about Sandy's performance. Oh how I wish I had a tape of Vin's broadcast of Sandy first major league masterpiece.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-04 12:38:46
64.   Jon Weisman
Mid-day lineups are out: Alex Cora fails to beat out Tony Graffanino for the playoff start.
2005-10-04 12:43:22
65.   Jon Weisman
62 - cool.
2005-10-04 12:45:44
66.   Bob Timmermann
Can I call my brother Tom's cell phone and bug him in the press box at Busch?
2005-10-04 13:01:45
67.   Jon Weisman
66 - My grandmother would like you to revisit the difference between "can" and "may."
2005-10-04 13:02:51
68.   Icaros
Bob and MSarg need to have a Battle of the Guys With Sportswriter Siblings.

PPV, anyone?

2005-10-04 13:03:17
69.   Bob Timmermann
Can I call Jon's grandmother on my cellphone at the press box in Busch?
2005-10-04 13:03:32
70.   Icaros
Pads on the comeback trail!
2005-10-04 13:04:35
71.   Icaros
69 Why is your cellphone at the press box in Busch?
2005-10-04 13:05:11
72.   Bob Timmermann
I'm betting on my brother's story in tomorrow's Post-Dispatch being about Jake Peavy.
2005-10-04 13:05:47
73.   Ken Arneson
Ruh-roh, Reorge!
2005-10-04 13:05:59
74.   Bob Timmermann
Jon and Icaros,

Stop stealing my bits!

2005-10-04 13:06:18
75.   Ken Arneson
Sure, Fickie fits fur hat!
2005-10-04 13:07:13
76.   Bob Timmermann
1929 World Series anyone?
2005-10-04 13:09:12
77.   Icaros
That was a very un-Moneyball at-bat to end the game.
2005-10-04 13:09:29
78.   Bob Timmermann
East Coast baseball fans breathe a sigh of relief as they can watch one of the only two teams that matter to them now.
2005-10-04 13:09:50
79.   Ken Arneson
Ex-A beats Ex-A to end the game.
2005-10-04 13:16:16
80.   Icaros
Who are the guys doing color with Chris Berman right now?
2005-10-04 13:17:44
81.   Bob Timmermann
Just saying "Chris Berman" makes me feel glad that I'm at work and listening on the radio to the White Sox guys.
2005-10-04 13:17:54
82.   Marty
Off topic, but important none the less. Every Monty Python's Flying Circus script:
2005-10-04 13:26:40
83.   Icaros
It's Sutcliffe and Piazza. I knew I recognized Mike's voice.
2005-10-04 13:30:45
84.   oldbear
83. Would you take Piazza back as the backup catcher next year? I would.
2005-10-04 13:33:01
85.   Bob Timmermann

There would go all the payroll savings next year. Just to pay for the Mike Piazza Farewell Tour.

2005-10-04 13:36:09
86.   Icaros
84 He'd have to play for really cheap, but it is a nice thought.
2005-10-04 13:36:40
87.   dzzrtRatt
I stopped paying attention to the Padre/Cardinal game when it was 8-1. It's probably worth something psychologically that the Pads forced Isringhausen out of the bullpen after being so far behind.

What's the deal with Carpenter?

2005-10-04 13:36:42
88.   das411
81 - It's actually interesting, they are talking about the wonderful, excellent, how-can-you-not-like-them Red Sox less in this game than Miller and Morgan were in SD/StL.

Sweet, 2-0 ChiSox!!

...and now Sutcliffe is talking arm angles

2005-10-04 13:37:57
89.   Bob Timmermann
Carpenter had "cramps in his right hand".
2005-10-04 13:38:23
90.   Icaros
Looks like Boston would have been better off with Derek Lowe this game.
2005-10-04 13:38:42
91.   oldbear
86. If the McCourts are really considered about public sentiment, I think bringing back Piazza at 1yr 5mils would ease some tension. This team will need a backup catcher, and a RHP bat off the bench with Saenz probably departure.

I'd rather pay Piazza for 1 year, than bring back both Bako and Saenz.

And if DePo were to hire Orel along with bringing back Piazza, Plashke would be in heaven.

2005-10-04 13:40:44
92.   Bob Timmermann
Plaschke would only be happy if McCourt sold the team. That's all he cares about.
2005-10-04 13:41:36
93.   dzzrtRatt
87 I forget. Has it been conclusively determined that Piazza cannot play first base competently? Or was that left field where Piazza was such an embarassment?

I wonder if it wouldn't be worth it to bring back Piazza with a one-year contract as a backup catcher, backup first baseman and pinch hitter. I'm sure all things being equal, he and his wife would rather be in LA, and I don't see the Angels opening up the DH role for him. It wouldn't make the most sense financially, but the Dodgers probably can afford it, he could help win a few games, and the box office reaction would probably pay for whatever increment-above-replacement-value he'd cost.

2005-10-04 13:44:10
94.   regfairfield
Smartball strikes again.

Sure is a good thing that Podsednik got bunted over and stole third to set up the home run.

Is Morgan extolling the virtues of Ozzie Guillen right now? Who actually is covering the game?

2005-10-04 13:44:29
95.   dzzrtRatt
91 We'd have to engineer a Piazza return so that Plaschke wouldn't like it. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to do it. He's a perfect reverse indicator. If something makes him happy, it's probably a mistake.
2005-10-04 13:45:21
96.   MSarg29
I think my brother is probably spending his afternoon at Jet camp asking the umpteenth Chad Pennington / Jet Quarterback question.
2005-10-04 13:46:58
97.   oldbear
93. Thats exactly what I was thinking. Piazza catches every 4th game, RH pinch hitter in other games, and occasional spot start at 1st base...And the box office appeal.

The Dodgers have plenty of cash to spend. I wouldnt mind overpaying a little either to bring Piazza back, as long as it was just for 1 year.

2005-10-04 13:48:57
98.   regfairfield
Bear in mind that we are discussing paying our backup catcher five million dollars, which is less than our shortstop, third baseman, first baseman, catcher, and left fielder will make combined.
2005-10-04 13:57:22
99.   dzzrtRatt
98 My guess is, the additional $4 million it would cost to get Piazza instead of somebody more cost-effective would be at least in part made up by the maintenance of high attendance, season ticket renewals, and stronger ad sales for radio, TV and ballpark ad space. At one of those 5 games against the Pirates, you have a Piazza bobble-head doll night. If he ends up retiring after next season, you have a tribute night in September. You have him go out into the community a few times to build up the good will that McCourt apparently needs. I'm not sure if it would "pay for itself," but Piazza's presence would certainly generate incremental revenue.
2005-10-04 14:03:37
100.   Fallout
91. oldbear

That would be a clever window dressing. But, if the Dodgers do not win next year then DePodesta is gone.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-04 14:05:31
101.   oldbear
100. Piazza would be a cash cow for the Dodgers. Thats why I think it makes a lot of sense both from a baseball standpoint and a business standpoint. Would you rather have Piazza catch for 3 weeks should Navarro get hurt, or have Rose/Bako?

Would you rather have Saenz at 1st occasionally, or Piazza?

Would you rather not have to read degrading Dodger articles all the time in the Times? Ok, no one is forced to read them but still I think they get tiresome.

I believe Mike Piazza back to the Dodgers makes a lot of sense all the way around. I dont see any downsides to it.

2005-10-04 14:11:34
102.   Fallout
101. oldbear

I didn't say that I was against the idea. So much more needs to be done.

2005-10-04 14:11:52
103.   Jon Weisman
101 - Not saying he would, but consider that if Piazza performed in 2006 like Hershiser in his final season, the multitudes would consider his signing an inconsequential and/or feeble gesture. That's one downside.
2005-10-04 14:19:14
104.   Icaros
But, if the Dodgers do not win next year then DePodesta is gone.

So, he waits for the prospects to be ready and then gets fired right as they're about to contribute?

Wouldn't make sense to me.

2005-10-04 14:20:40
105.   Bob Timmermann
The last year of Hershiser saw him hit 11 batters in 24 2/3 innings.
And walk 14.
And give up 42 hits, including 5 home runs.

Is Piazza going to match his .778 OPS as a backup?

2005-10-04 14:22:07
106.   Bob Timmermann
DePodesta has a 5-year contract (which he has completed 2 years of). Unless he goes Kevin Malone on a fan, I think he will go through the whole contract.

Doesn't DePodesta work fairly cheap as a GM also?

2005-10-04 14:22:23
107.   Jon Weisman
Meanwhile, in Chicago - yikes. Is that Matt Clement pitching? Or is it my heart pounding?
2005-10-04 14:30:07
108.   Bob Timmermann
The Red Sox are trying to make listening to this game relevant!
2005-10-04 14:30:48
109.   dzzrtRatt
The Angels must be pleased to see Boston brought low. They do not want to face the Red Sox, assuming they even get by the Yankees.
2005-10-04 14:31:18
110.   oldbear
105. Maybe Piazza would hit better since he wont have to play as much.
2005-10-04 14:34:47
111.   Jon Weisman
110 - Hey, I'd enjoy seeing Manny Mota activated.
2005-10-04 14:42:20
112.   dzzrtRatt
Is there a possible variant of the VORP stat that would take into account the measureable box office/advertising impact of a player?

Let's say we could get Piazza for $5 million, and you could prove that he would generate an incremental $4 million in revenue. Or, you could get Brian Giles for $10 million, but you'd know that he would add nothing to the bottom line except insofar as he improves the overall team.

Giles takes $10 million out of the budget available for players. But Piazza, because he adds to the bottom line, only takes $1 million net, leaving $4 million available to pick up a less well-known, but highly capable, additional player to improve the team. Thus, the real comparison for Piazza, according to this hypothetical, is against players who earn $1 million. Does this factor ever get measured in sabremetrics?

2005-10-04 14:49:05
113.   Penarol1916
112. Outside of say Barry Bonds, I think you would have a hard time proving any player has more than a $1.0MM impact on the clubs bottom line versus a replacement player, except to the affect that he improves the team. How many more fans do you actually think would come out to see Piazza that wouldn't otherwise?
2005-10-04 14:54:57
114.   King of the Hobos
The first 2006 steroid suspension has already been handed out! The lucky winner is Carlos Almanzar of the Texas Rangers
2005-10-04 15:04:28
115.   Fallout
113. Penarol1916
How many more fans do you actually think would come out to see Piazza that wouldn't otherwise?


2005-10-04 15:09:59
116.   Vishal
i hate all the AL teams in the playoffs, but come to think of it, i would love to see both boston and new york get eliminated in the first round. the yanks & red sox becoming irrelevent as early as possible would be great. and then i want to see the white sox beat the angels in the ALCS, and go to the world series, only to lose to the cardinals or whomever after wasting too many outs on bunts and CS.

does that sound too bitter? i hope not.

2005-10-04 15:12:38
117.   blue22
113 - Pedro Martinez generates a significantly higher attendance on the days he pitches for the Mets. Given that he makes about 15 starts a year at home, an extra 5000 fans per game gives a pretty substantial lift. Not sure what the average spend per person is, but Pedro contributing an extra 75K fans per year almost justifies his contract right there.
2005-10-04 15:13:50
118.   Bob Timmermann

You're the sort of baseball fan that Bill Plaschke hates! Sigh. You don't appreciate what makes a good game. I hope you feel ashamed. Please destroy any baseball memorabilia you might own. All baseball cards must be incinerated. You do not adhere to the Plaschkean orthodoxy.

2005-10-04 15:16:07
119.   Bob Timmermann

But there is a substantial Dominican community in New York that wants to see their native hero do well. It's not unlike what happened at Dodger Stadium in the early days of Fernandomania or even Nomomania.

The established core of Piazza fans migrated to being Lo Duca fans I think. And they just have sort of disappeared.

2005-10-04 15:16:09
120.   Gen3Blue
116- As bitter as I feel.
2005-10-04 15:16:21
121.   dzzrtRatt
115 I respectfully disagree. If they signed Piazza tomorrow, he would have an immediate impact on season ticket sales. The marketing person for the Dodgers would be stoked. The potential advertisers have actually heard of Piazza! It's a lot easier to sell him as a draw than Dioner Navarro.

What I don't know, so I would defer to smarter people, is what the dollar increment would be. It just seems to me that DePodesta's got to find a way to keep the fans from mutiny in 2006 while he pushes to get 'his' team on the field beginning in 2007. A one-year Piazza gambit might be just the thing.

It's just an idea.

2005-10-04 15:23:39
122.   King of the Hobos
Pitching and defense are meaningless in this game (not meaningless, but unimportant). The White Sox are winning exactly as they won numerous games in the regular season, despite what Ozzie may want you to think. 9 runs off homers, 3 otherwise
2005-10-04 15:23:47
123.   Bob Timmermann
If you bring back Piazza, you run the risk of telling people "Well, we have some good young catchers, but we don't think they're ready, so we're going to bring back a really old catcher, who can't really catch much anymore. Oh, and we traded him when he was a lot younger and he still had some good years for a different team."
2005-10-04 15:25:32
124.   Gen3Blue
I know the Redsox like to make dramatic comebacks and score any amount of runs, but this is getting scary.
2005-10-04 15:27:34
125.   King of the Hobos
Not that many of you really care, but the Grand Canyon Rafters have started in grand fashion--6 errors in 7 innings so far

The Dodgers' Phoenix Desert Dogs start tonight at 7 pm, Paul Bush of the Braves is starting

2005-10-04 15:28:58
126.   Icaros
Don't the White Sox get credit for two victories if they win by ten or more runs?
2005-10-04 15:29:40
127.   dzzrtRatt
123 I think we've got two good young catchers, and it's my understanding that the other one, Russell Martin, is going to play all of 2006 in Las Vegas, with a target date of 2007 to hit the majors. So it's Dioner and two backups in the Paul Bako/Mike Rose mode for next year. Piazza's role would be to serve as one of Dioner's backups. You give up a lot defensively, and if Dioner gets hurt you'd need to get someone else, quick. But you also would have someone who could pinch-hit with power, maybe fill in a little at first base, and make Jeff Kent feel comfortable.
2005-10-04 15:29:54
128.   Bob Timmermann
That's what the White Sox hoped for in 1959.
2005-10-04 15:31:42
129.   Icaros
But you also would have someone who could pinch-hit with power, maybe fill in a little at first base, and make Jeff Kent feel comfortable.

I've heard that Jeff Kent isn't comfortable around members of the gay commmunity.

2005-10-04 15:34:15
130.   Gen3Blue
King--is there any website that gives a more than a score for Arizona Fall League
2005-10-04 15:37:31
131.   Jon Weisman
So is Eric Seth Nusbaum of the Daily Washington present?

2005-10-04 15:38:51
132.   regfairfield
131 If he is, then there's 30 teams in baseball, not 32.
2005-10-04 15:40:10
133.   Bob Timmermann
Not me, as I've said before, my real identity is Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
2005-10-04 15:43:38
134.   King of the Hobos

Supposedly they would have Gameday for every game. Can anyone find it?

2005-10-04 15:45:57
135.   King of the Hobos
Peavy out for the season. The Padres' slim chance just disappeared
2005-10-04 15:46:08
136.   Icaros
131 Jon has been Googling his own name again.
2005-10-04 15:48:52
137.   Jon Weisman
136 - :)
2005-10-04 15:50:00
138.   dzzrtRatt
131 Well said.

With all the attention to the Red Sox, let's not forget, over past 120 years, Dodger fans have had many opportunities to enjoy "the loser's dividend." The Dodgers were the original "lovable losers." The 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s were statistical anomalies.

2005-10-04 15:59:00
139.   Fallout
121. dzzrtRatt

Would you buy season tickets because the team signed Piazza and lost 90 games again?

The Dodgers will draw what?...2.7M - 3M for just being there and a lot more for a decent team. The problem is not attendance.

Sure it would be fun for a while to see an old favorite but they have got to win some games. If Piazza is hitting .220 in June his appeal would drop quickly.

(Oh sure what about his OBS?) :)

2005-10-04 15:59:03
140.   Eric Enders
"So is Eric Seth Nusbaum of the Daily Washington present?"

If he is, tell him there are 30 teams, not 32...

2005-10-04 16:00:14
141.   Eric Enders
Darn you, regfairfield, for stealing my thought a good 20 minutes before I even had it.
2005-10-04 16:04:14
142.   Jon Weisman
Dodger Castaways, Cont.

The opposing centerfielders in Anaheim tonight: Steve Finley and Bubba Crosby.

2005-10-04 16:06:04
143.   blue22
139 - Dodger Legacy and all that notwithstanding, if we're in the market for a RH-power hitter with mediocre catching skills, I'll default to my boy Craig Wilson.
2005-10-04 16:07:03
144.   Eric Enders
"Not me, as I've said before, my real identity is Ruth Bader Ginsburg."

Which means the bestselling book in America has a naked picture of Bob in it? No wonder it was selling like hotcakes.

"Would you rather have Saenz at 1st occasionally, or Piazza?"

I know that was a rhetorical question from oldbear, but I'll give the answer you don't expect -- I'd rather have Saenz in a heartbeat. He's a better hitter at this point, probably a slightly better defensive 1B, and is three years younger and therefore far less likely to fall off a cliff.

Piazza is just not a very good baseball player anymore. Let's stop pretending that bringing him back would have anything to do with performance or winning. It would be 100% sentiment, pure and simple.

So, I'm firmly in agreement with the idea to bring Piazza back -- but as an announcer, not a player. He's really good at that.

2005-10-04 16:12:25
145.   King of the Hobos
Erstad is protecting Vlad? Will the Yankees actually pitch to Vlad?
2005-10-04 16:18:09
146.   Vishal
ooh, piazza is a good announcer? sounds like a win-win to me. maybe we can ship rick monday off to whatever team jim tracy ends up going to.

yeah, at this point, in terms of which is a better player, i'd take saenz > piazza in a heartbeat. if saenz got used for what he was supposed to be used for (that is, a really good RHB off the bench), then he's great to have. if he's taking playing time from choi, then he becomes less useful.

2005-10-04 16:19:47
147.   dzzrtRatt
139 "Would you buy season tickets because the team signed Piazza and lost 90 games again?"

I'm not who they'd be targeting.

When Dodger marketing reps paid sales calls on potential corporate ticket buyers and ad/promotion partners last winter, they surely did not forget to mention Eric Gagne, as well as the new acquisitions like Jeff Kent. It's a selling point for the season ticket buyer who might be less obsessed with the team's record, and more focused on the entertainment value of the experience for clients. It's also a selling point for the advertiser, who can figure on a somewhat larger audience tuning in to see their old favorite back in uniform.

I don't know what to expect from Piazza as a hitter next year. I'd compare him to Saenz. Freed of the responsibility of crouching behind the plate more than once a week, he might be decent coming off the bench or playing an occasional game. It's the kind of risk I'd take--a one year contract, rightsized expectations. I'd rather take that flyer than "win" a bidding war for a Brian Giles type. That's the definition of a bad, costly risk.

I'm figuring DePo turns up his nose at most of the FA class this winter. Too many teams chasing too few good players. Every contract signed this winter will be atrocious.

I'm figuring DePo will also be very cautious about trading any of the Dodgers' A-level prospects. So, what's he going to do to improve the team for '06? Try to find fill-in guys who are willing to accept a one or two year deal, and who can produce decent numbers until the youngsters arrive. Piazza would have to be on that list, especially when you factor in the marketing aspects.

2005-10-04 16:20:16
148.   Eric Enders
Well, I was going on the theory that Choi-as-Satan will not be a factor for the '06 Dodgers, so Saenz will probably be on the bench.
2005-10-04 16:22:36
149.   Eric Enders
By the way, why the sudden need for improving attendance when the Dodgers this year already posted one of the highest season attendance totals in the history of baseball?
2005-10-04 16:23:58
150.   Jon Weisman
144 - Is Piazza a good commentator? I've never heard him. In giving interviews, he always sounded a little fatigued to me. He would regularly start every sentence with the word "again," a crutch and/or an indication he was telling the same story for the umpteenth time.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-04 16:24:51
151.   Jon Weisman
149 - Barring some major development, the Dodgers will take a big hit in advanced sales for the coming year. Not that this is necessarily a longterm problem.
2005-10-04 16:28:58
152.   Eric Enders
I thought Piazza did an outstanding job on today's game, as he has the previous handful of times I've heard him on a broadcast. He's articulate, speaks in complete sentences, doesn't talk simply for the sake of hearing his own voice, did a good job of explaining the mechanics of hitting and pitching, and notably avoided saying anything stupid.
2005-10-04 16:31:33
153.   Jon Weisman
152 - Well hell, I'll create some openings with the Dodgers for him, then.
2005-10-04 16:31:38
154.   Fallout
If Choi played a full season and hit .260, OBA .340, 25HR, 75 rbi, 120 SO, 25 DP.
What would you say?

What you expected?
Not quite what you expected?

2005-10-04 16:32:50
155.   Eric Enders
So, is it just me, or are Jons-with-no-H taking over the Western World lately?

Jon Stewart is, by acclamation, the coolest man in America. Jon Weisman has turned Dodger Thoughts into the best and one of the most-read baseball blogs. Jon Papelbon has Red Sox fans all hot and bothered. Jon Daniels just became the youngest GM in history. etc etc

2005-10-04 16:34:33
156.   Eric Enders
That's about what I would have expected from Choi this year. If things had gone according to plan, he would've gotten the opportunity to post those numbers in 2005 and improve on them in 2006.
2005-10-04 16:35:36
157.   dzzrtRatt
144Piazza is just not a very good baseball player anymore.

In 2005, Piazza had a higher OPS than (partial list):

Ramon Hernandez
Rod Barajas
Mike Lieberthal
Ivan Rodriguez
Dioner Navarro
Greg Zaun
AJ Pierzynski
Paul LoDuca
Mike Matheny
Brad Ausmas
Johnny Estrada
Jason Kendall
Jason Phillips

His OPS was only exceeded by (100+ games):
Jason Veritek
Victor Martinez
Michael Barrett
Jason Larue
Joe Mauer
Bengie Molina
Jorge Posada
Javy Lopez

He's not nearly what he was, but he's not without value. Despite playing in only 113 games, Piazza had more home runs (19) than all but three catchers. Only four had more RBIs. He was in the top ten in walks.

2005-10-04 16:36:46
158.   Eric Enders
Quote from Piazza today: "I hate that word, chemistry; it's become such a cliche. Players just get along better when they're winning."
2005-10-04 16:37:58
159.   oldbear
144. I think Saenz is more fragile than Piazza. Saenz never had to catch, but once he got more than 150 at bats just filling in at 1st, he collapsed.

Piazza is sort of in the Larry Walker-mold for the Cardinals. Sure Walker is old, cant really play the OF anymore, and is definitely not as good as he used to be. But he can still be an asset. In fact, LaRussa managed Walker perfectly this regular season. He limited Walker's games, so he'd be ready for the playoffs. Same thing that Phil Jax used to do with Rob Horry.

I think Piazza could fill the same role for the Dodgers. The only negative I could see with Piazza is if he got real hot at the beginning of the season,and started taking real game time away from Navarro. Thats why it would be imperative for the manager to keep a strict allocation of Piazza's games played throughout the year, no matter how he performed.

Piazza is better than both Bako, Rose as a backup catcher. So it wouldnt just be for sentimental reasons the he'd be brought back. A .778 career OPS I'd take from a backup catcher.

2005-10-04 16:38:41
160.   Eric Enders

I was using a bit of hyperbole there. You're right, Piazza is not without value. But I don't see what is gained by comparing a (now) first baseman's offense to that of a bunch of catchers.

2005-10-04 16:38:58
161.   confucius
Good thing the White Sox play small ball. I don't know what they would've done today without it.
2005-10-04 16:41:31
162.   Jon Weisman
155 - Sporting common names with uncommon spelling, we try to find originality in the unoriginal?
2005-10-04 16:41:45
163.   confucius
Piazza will be a first string DH next year. He can't play first nor catcher.
2005-10-04 16:43:14
164.   Eric Enders
Also, I'm not privy to the inside information that's apparently out there regarding Russell Martin spending the entire 2006 season at Las Vegas. I think he has an excellent chance of spending all or part of the season in the majors. So does Aaron Fitt of Baseball America, who wrote today that Martin "has got a chance to break camp with the big league club next year... and could win the catching job."
2005-10-04 16:44:41
165.   Vishal
[158] piazza for manager!!! :)
2005-10-04 16:47:03
166.   oldbear
Imagine this opening day lineup:

3b- Aybar
1b- Choi
RF- Drew
LF- Dunn
2b- Kent
CF- Bradley
C- Piazza
SS- Perez

Bench- (Cruz, Werth, Navarro, Robles, Guzman, Mueller)

I can dream.

2005-10-04 16:49:13
167.   confucius
119. That's why the odor problem at Dodger Stadium has disappeared!!! Less Italians!!
2005-10-04 16:52:24
168.   confucius
166. I'm a supposed to be imagining the lack of run production they'll get out of third base, or the amount of games Perez will blow with fielding errors?
2005-10-04 16:54:49
169.   Fallout
164. Eric Enders

I was bothered that Martin wasn't brought up at the end of the season. If his chances are that good of making next years club, even winning the job, why wasn't he?

2005-10-04 16:55:24
170.   Eric Enders
Perez at SS isn't really going to fly, nor should it. Otherwise, I like it.

Like confucius, I hate those 3Bmen with 1.000 OPSs!

2005-10-04 16:56:35
171.   FirstMohican
Does anyone know what the rest of the NL West teams plan to do in the offseason. I've heard DePo hopes to add a power hitter.

Any ideas?

2005-10-04 16:57:29
172.   Eric Enders
In DePo's words, "he wasn't going to play." The Dodgers already had three catchers. Plus they wanted to win the Southern League title.

Calling up Martin would have served no purpose other than simply rewarding him for a good season, which is something DePo had said he wasn't going to use Sept callups for.

2005-10-04 16:58:29
173.   Marty
It says on MLB that the A's have offered Macha a 3-year, 2.6 million deal.
2005-10-04 16:59:29
174.   confucius
170. Because his OPS will stay that high over 162 games. He's also sure to drive in 100 like a good 3b does.
2005-10-04 17:02:17
175.   capdodger
169 Service time concerns.
2005-10-04 17:04:42
176.   King of the Hobos
168 Who would you suggest for 3B? Mueller? Randa? Helms? Those are the top 3 FAs not including Nomah

171 The Padres have 12 FAs that they need to do something with, all but 1 (Andy Ashby) played some importance this year

The Giants have 8, but 5 have team options that likely will be picked up. After that, they need a 1B (Snow's a FA) unless they go with Niekro. And they could probably use a starting pitcher

Arizona has 8 FAs, and they need bullpen talent. Probably will overspend for a colser

Colorado has stated resigning Mike Dejean is important. I'm guessing that means they're not going to do anything big

2005-10-04 17:04:57
177.   Bob Timmermann
No manager is going to bat Kent AFTER Dunn after this season on Opening Day. Maybe if during the year, Kent slid down and Dunn improved, it could happen.

As long as Kent wants to be on the Dodgers, I think he will see his name in the 3 or 4 slot.

2005-10-04 17:06:16
178.   King of the Hobos
174 But remember we have 3B production out of our 2B, which is rare. We just need Aybar to hit like a 2B
2005-10-04 17:07:52
179.   Eric Enders
Obviously Aybar is not going to do that over 162. But you seem like you're grasping for things to complain about. When a premium prospect puts up a .455 OBP in over 100 plate appearances, that causes most normal baseball fans to get excited -- not complain.

And it's 100% horse manure that a 3B "needs" to drive in 100 runs. If your offense is good, the shape of that offense is irrelevant.

2005-10-04 17:08:06
180.   oldbear
168. How many games did Perez blow for Vegas when he played SS everyday down there in 2004? I havent checked, but he didnt play that bad.

So AP isnt the best fielder. Who cares? As long as he OPS's .800 or better, he's good enough to start.

2005-10-04 17:08:21
181.   Fallout
172. Eric Enders

If that was the real reason, it gives me another reason to disagree with him.

175. capdodger

If that is the reason, why be so chincy? A couple of weeks?

2005-10-04 17:08:55
182.   FirstMohican
177 - Why wouldn't you bat Kent after Dunn?

If Dunn is an OBP machine, and Kent has a history of hitting well with RISP, that might make sense. Then again, how many GIDP's would that create?

2005-10-04 17:11:56
183.   Eric Enders
Kent's ego, IMO, is the only thing that could conceivably be a reason for batting him before Dunn. I think that's what Bob was getting at.

I find it amusing that we are debating batting order slots for guys whom we have no real reason to believe will ever play for the Dodgers...

2005-10-04 17:12:07
184.   dzzrtRatt
Does anyone know how many games Piazza played at catcher vs. at first base vs. as a pinch hitter in '05? just lists him as a catcher.

I did look up first basemen. Obviously, he goes from being a top 10 player at catcher to something less as a first baseman--but still in the top 20. My vision of this would be that if Piazza played in 120 games next year, probably two-thirds of those would be as PH or 1B.

I definitely recall seeing a story about Navarro and Martin where it was said that they don't want Martin or Navarro to be backups next year, they want them each to play full seasons. Navarro's here, and Martin will be in AAA. Unless Martin takes away Navarro's job next Spring. It was, as I recall, a story that also had the DePo quote about why he didn't call Martin up.

P.S. Jon is becoming as old school as John. The new spelling is Jhon, as in Jhonny Peralta.

2005-10-04 17:12:52
185.   oldbear
180-- I'll also add that with Tracy gone, I think Perez will be playing SS for the Dodgers next year, unless he's traded in the off-season. Thats the main reason DePo acquired him, was that he played SS. I dont think Robles perceived better abilities at SS, are enough to offset Perez's better bat at SS. In addition, I dont think there are any other SS's we may acquire out there that are better than Perez. Only two I can think of: Furcal and Nomar. But Dunn and a secondary starter will be the top two priorities I believe.
2005-10-04 17:13:05
186.   Jon Weisman
167 - I don't know if this was intended as a joke or not, but it doesn't work, to say the least.
2005-10-04 17:13:55
187.   confucius
The reason Jeff Kent is a hall of famer is because he allows you to have a better second baseman than every team that you'll play. You negate the advantage of having him when you don't have good hitters at the corner infield positions. Remember the object of the game is to be better than your opponent, not to be equal. That to me is the value of Jeff Kent, given that you have a decent 1st and 3rd baseman, your infield's production is out of sight.
2005-10-04 17:14:05
188.   Jon Weisman
185 - I'd like to know if Perez is playing winter ball and if so, what position.
2005-10-04 17:14:29
189.   FirstMohican
183 - Kent's ego has something to do with who bats in front of him? He minded when Drew batted in front of him? I think what he might like - if its about himself - are the RBIs he would get by having someone with the OBP of Dunn in front of him.

Then again, he may not like having someone hit 40HRs and clearing the bases for him everytime he got up to bat.

2005-10-04 17:14:35
190.   confucius
a joke
2005-10-04 17:15:45
191.   Bob Timmermann
Mike Piazza played a grand total of ZERO games at first base this year.
2005-10-04 17:16:50
192.   FirstMohican
185 - if the main reason DePo aquired APerez was to play SS, what was the main reason for DePo signing a Gold Glove SS to a 3 year deal?
2005-10-04 17:17:26
193.   Eric Enders
DePo most certainly did not acquire Perez to be the starting shortstop. He acquired him to provide depth as a utility infielder, which he has proven to be quite good at. He should've played more this year because of all the injuries, but I don't think he's good enough to be a starting SS on a good team. Also, his offense is almost certainly not as good as he showed this year. This is a guy who batted .290 at LV over a full season. He's not gonna be a .300+ hitter at Dodger Stadium.
2005-10-04 17:17:39
194.   Gen3Blue
Thanks K.--I'm working on it
2005-10-04 17:18:44
195.   Eric Enders
"You negate the advantage of having him when you don't have good hitters at the corner infield positions."

Agreed. So who is this non-good-hitter you speak of that will weaken the Dodgers? Certainly not Willy Aybar.

2005-10-04 17:18:49
196.   Bob Timmermann
For the Astros in 2004, Kent batted 4th 69 times and 5th 69 times.

But I think Kent is the sort of guy who wouldn't mind batting behind guys like Biggio and Bagwell and Berkman because he was aware of their status with the Astros. He started 2004 batting cleanup and got dropped down a slot after Beltran arrived.

2005-10-04 17:20:13
197.   Eric Enders
Did you miss the word "conceivably" in my post, or something?
2005-10-04 17:20:39
198.   King of the Hobos
187 Problem is, name a better 3B. And Lowell isn't an option
2005-10-04 17:21:17
199.   Eric Enders
I'm a better 3B than Mike Lowell at this point.
2005-10-04 17:21:54
200.   FirstMohican
I think Kent would have less of a problem batting 5th behind a power hitter than he would batting 4th in front of Jayson Werth.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-10-04 17:22:42
201.   confucius
186. I was making a joke by assuming that there are Italians who would go to Dodger Stadium to root for Lo Duca and Piazza simply because there names end with vowels, and now that they're not Dodgers theie fans wouldn't be in attendance. So see,it makes perfect sense. Plus, it is down right witty humor.
2005-10-04 17:23:37
202.   confucius
198. Jeff Hamilton.
2005-10-04 17:26:27
203.   capdodger
181 Look... There's no reason to bring up a premium prospect for a cup of coffee and potentially lose an entire year of cost-controlled service to (expensive) free agency. Navarro was brought up becuase Phillips wasn't cutting it ad he's higher up the ladder than Martin. The Dodgers are lucky in that they have two good young catchers. If not for Navarro, it's possible we might have seen Martin this year instead of next.
2005-10-04 17:28:35
204.   dzzrtRatt
191 Thanks. Then, the numbers Piazza was able to put up as an old catcher have to be regarded as noteworthy. He'd come here as something more than an official greeter at the Dugout Club. He might make the Dodgers better without eating up huge amounts of payroll or sticking us with a long contract.

As an added incentive, he can punch out "confucius."

2005-10-04 17:28:52
205.   Eric Enders
Agree with 203. If we'd kept Shawn Green, I think Martin would already be the starting catcher by now.
2005-10-04 17:29:20
206.   Mark
If the Dodgers picked up Mike Piazza to do anything except sweep out the dugout, I would register the very same day.
2005-10-04 17:29:48
207.   FirstMohican
198 - Is Seattle willing to deal Beltre?
2005-10-04 17:30:25
208.   King of the Hobos
202 You actually think Aybar is that bad?
2005-10-04 17:31:03
209.   Eric Enders
"He might make the Dodgers better without eating up huge amounts of payroll"

How so? Has Piazza expressed a willingness to take a gigantic pay cut to return to L.A., or is this just wishful thinking?

Even $5M, which would be about a 60% cut in salary for Piazza, is certainly a huge amount of payroll to spend on a PH/backup C.

2005-10-04 17:31:08
210.   HomeDePo
Kent for dunn or another power outfielder and a prospect

Sign furcal in the offseason and play antonio at second for the whole year.

2005-10-04 17:31:39
211.   confucius
195. Yeah, Aybar's 5 homeruns a season are really going to turn them from a 71 win team to 100 win team. It's the Dodgers, let's try and win for a change rather then just trying to save face, which is what the've been doing since '89.

Why not Nomar?

2005-10-04 17:32:02
212.   Gen3Blue
193 I pretty much agree with you assesment.
Still progressing Perez could reach 290 at Dodger Stadium

I'm afraid I still detect those who wish to see Izzy gone. If he makes a good recovery I'm afraid we are stuck with him, and that may turn out to be good.

2005-10-04 17:32:50
213.   HomeDePo
just dont overspend on furcal

this plan is nixed if we have to overpay furcal

2005-10-04 17:33:51
214.   Fallout
203. capdodger

So set me straight. If a minor league player comes up for 2 weeks he gets a year's worth of ML credit?

2005-10-04 17:34:42
215.   confucius
Piazza hates the Dodgers. He's a lost cause anyway. I think Depo's looking to the future. Piazza will be a DH. I can't see any team wanting to sign him and then risk him getting injured behind the plate.
2005-10-04 17:36:06
216.   HomeDePo
If a minor league player comes up for 2 weeks he gets a year's worth of ML credit?

yes he does

2005-10-04 17:37:00
217.   confucius
213. The Izturis contract is really killing them now. Furcal would be a great pick up.
2005-10-04 17:37:02
218.   FirstMohican
210 - Because Cincy wants to deal a 25 year old in his walk year for a 38 year old in his walk year.

211 - Because we'd rather not set any more records for DL time?

212 - I agree... if he played so poorly this past year after his hot start because of an injury, he probably would play pretty decent if he recovers. Robles/Perez in the interim aren't bad provided that is one of only a few holes in the 06 Dodgers.

2005-10-04 17:39:58
219.   Eric Enders
"195. Yeah, Aybar's 5 homeruns a season are really going to turn them from a 71 win team to 100 win team."

Look, confucius, do you have anything to offer us besides racist jokes and hyper-distorted rhetoric? Nobody is saying Aybar is a savior. What I am saying is that he is far from being (as you claim in post 187) "not a good hitter."

2005-10-04 17:41:14
220.   Eric Enders
"So set me straight. If a minor league player comes up for 2 weeks he gets a year's worth of ML credit?"

Yes and no. He only gets the 2 weeks of credit. But that 2 weeks sometimes makes the difference in becoming a free agent a year sooner.

2005-10-04 17:41:29
221.   dzzrtRatt
209 Obviously, his agent hasn't slapped a price tag on his back. But he's got to know he's not going to get an offer for much more than that. The market for DHs exceeds demand. I've read he'd like to play in SoCal, where he still has a home, I believe. His wife is a model, and probably wants to be an actress. LA's the place. He could go to Anaheim, but I think they're fitting the DH slot for Garrett Anderson next season. The Padres might need a catcher, but they'll have to replace their #1, and Piazza's not really a candidate for that job.

That leaves the Dodgers. So, if you want, call it educated wishful thinking.

2005-10-04 17:42:04
222.   confucius
208. Sarcasm. I'd love to see Nomar at third next year. It's no knock on Aybar, I know he's only a link to Laroche or Guzman. I like 3b who can really slug.

What do you people think about trying Bradley at leadoff, ONLY if neither Perez nor Aybar are in the lineup next year?

2005-10-04 17:44:36
223.   confucius
219. Please refrain from making personal attacks because I do not like the same baseball players as you.
2005-10-04 17:45:26
224.   King of the Hobos
Realize Furcal wants at least $8 mil a year and 4 years, and Chicago likely already has an offer ready around those numbers
2005-10-04 17:45:30
225.   Bob Timmermann
Interestingly amidst all the digs at Italians, garlic fries are one of Dodger Stadium's popular items.

And on the diamond in Anaheim, Bartolo Colon had some third out issues against the Yankees.

2005-10-04 17:47:01
226.   Bob Timmermann
Rafael Furcal. Hmm... Let's put him through the "character test".

Sorry, Rafael, thanks for playing but your DUIs aren't going to cut it here.

2005-10-04 17:47:23
227.   HomeDePo
225 - but the louisiana hots are the freakin bomb!
2005-10-04 17:48:22
228.   Mark
223 Please refrain from making personal attacks because I am not the same race as you.
2005-10-04 17:49:38
229.   confucius
218. Nomar is definitely a risk, but if they could work out something short term, just until they bring someone up from the farm, it might turn out okay.

I understand what you're saying, though.

2005-10-04 17:50:17
230.   confucius
How would you know what race I am?
2005-10-04 17:51:42
231.   Bob Timmermann
219 223 230

This is not going to end well.

2005-10-04 17:52:30
232.   Eric Enders
Please. It was far from a personal attack-- more a statement of fact, plus a question. So far on this thread the only things you've contributed are a racist joke and some wildly incoherent, hyperbolic statements on baseball -- neither of which is conducive to a good conversation.

I don't mind people who disagree with me. In fact, I find them more entertaining to converse with. But what you've been giving us does not qualify as conversation.

I certainly don't speak for the others here, but one of the things I've always liked best about this site is the high level of reasonable discourse. So I do tend to dislike it when people start bringing talk radio tactics in here. It's counterproductive, and annoying.

2005-10-04 17:54:20
233.   Bob Timmermann
Doesn't it behoove the Angels to win tonight since Mussina seems to be the weakest of the Yankees starters?
2005-10-04 17:56:39
234.   Bob Timmermann
So far the Yankees have had six plate appearances with 2 outs.

Five of them have reached base.

2005-10-04 17:57:43
235.   FirstMohican
233 - This might be the first time that I can remember that I've wanted the Yankees to win.
2005-10-04 17:58:49
236.   FirstMohican
234 - Wouldn't that make 3 outs?
2005-10-04 17:58:51
237.   Mark
In lighter news...

C Dioner Navarro
1B Paul Konerko
2B Jeff Kent
3B Willy Aybar
SS Nomar Garciaparra
LF Hideki Matsui
CF JD Drew
RF Jose Cruz Jr not a bad lineup. It isn't a 90-win lineup, but it isn't a 71-win lineup either.

2005-10-04 17:59:35
238.   Bob Timmermann
I don't want the Yankees to win, but at least they're doing it on a day I don't have to listen to McCarver gush all about Derek Jeter.

Colon is positively Brazobanian in his 2-out pitching.

2005-10-04 18:00:25
239.   FirstMohican
I'm guessing you mean in 2 innings..
2005-10-04 18:00:52
240.   Bob Timmermann

It's over 2 innings.

2005-10-04 18:02:38
241.   FirstMohican
237 - 3 FA signings for position players who will probably get 10M+ a year each? Hmmm...
2005-10-04 18:03:22
242.   confucius
It was not a racist joke and for all you know it could have been directed at myself. Do you really think that it is racist for me to joke that italians would somehow make dodger stadium smell, its kind of an absurd remark. If there was some type of stereotype that Italians smell I would have not said it. I meant for it to sound ridiculous. I'm sorry if it was offensive to you and/or anyone else regarless of my intentions. I'm really not a racist. And i have not really been wildly incoherent. I've been sarcastic and have exxagerrated. You're maiking character judgements, then calling them a statement of a fact. Do you understand how I could get defensive.
2005-10-04 18:04:54
243.   confucius
242. Also, sorry for neglecting to use question marks.
2005-10-04 18:09:03
244.   Bob Timmermann
Time to see if Steve Finley will save the day for the Angels.

But I hear he would have been more valuable to the Dodgers.

2005-10-04 18:09:28
245.   FirstMohican
242, 243 - Tie all of this in to the past Dodger season, and/or the current offseason.
2005-10-04 18:12:19
246.   FirstMohican
244 - It's nice to see someone else who finds that arguement absolutely absurd.

I swear I wouldn't be surprised to find some of these media guys on the Angels' payroll.

2005-10-04 18:12:39
247.   confucius
244. Yeah, Tracy was said something about wanting to have more of the 2004 components back. Werth, Finley and Beltre all had bad seasons so its hard to believe they dodgers would have won as many games this year had they kept more of the 2004 team.
2005-10-04 18:13:01
248.   confucius
244. Yeah, Tracy said something about wanting to have more of the 2004 components back. Werth, Finley and Beltre all had bad seasons so its hard to believe they dodgers would have won as many games this year had they kept more of the 2004 team.
2005-10-04 18:13:03
249.   Mark
241 Sure, why not? Garciaparra is the second coming of JD Drew. When he's healthy, his OPS is huge. When Garciaparra gets injured, people can all say "there's no way DePodesta saw that coming!"

Matsui is an RBI machine. Konerko's a masher. The three of them would be replacing Choi, Izturis, and Werth. That's worth $30MM.

2005-10-04 18:14:12
250.   FirstMohican
This is one hell of a professional AB here by Finley...
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-10-04 18:14:46
251.   dzzrtRatt
238 As Richard Nixon said, "don't peak too soon." Scoring all your runs in the early innings is peaking too soon, if you're playing the Angels. In their pennant drive, I think they came back about 5-6 times from margins like. Seemed that way anyway.

The Cardinals almost peaked too soon.

2005-10-04 18:15:03
252.   Eric Enders
"You're maiking [sic] character judgements [sic], then calling them a statement of a fact."

I said the joke was racist, which isn't a character judgment. If I had said you were a racist, that would be a character judgment. But I didn't say that.

I wouldn't have even mentioned the joke if your other posts hadn't been so ludicrous, however. And I don't mean ludicrous in that your opinion differs from mine, but ludicrous in the way you attempt to make your "arguments." It's a rather juvenile posting style better suited to the or boards than it is to this site. If that's the kind of posts you want to make, great, but you shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't go over very well here.

That said, I'm done posting about this. I already probably made a bigger deal out of it than needed to be made. I generally am not in the habit of calling out individual posters like this, but this was one situation where I couldn't quite restrain myself from doing so.

2005-10-04 18:15:09
253.   capdodger
242 It very well could have been directed at yourself, but this is the Internet and sarcasm and intentional absurdity are harder to detect than in real life. It pays to keep that in mind sometimes.
2005-10-04 18:16:51
254.   FirstMohican
249 - I'll be honest in that I don't have the numbers to back this up - but I'd speculate that Matsui's an RBI machine because he plays for the Yankees and probably has somebody who's going to be a HOFer on base everytime he gets an AB.

I'd much rather trade for then extend Dunn and have him and Gagne wearing Dodger hats in the HOF. Then sign Giles... of course.

2005-10-04 18:17:27
255.   Fallout
233. Bob Timmermann
Doesn't it behoove the Angels to win tonight since Mussina seems to be the weakest of the Yankees starters?

Kinda like the Padres in reverse thinking.
If their ace doesn't win then it's over.

(for the nit pickers. I'm not saying any such thing about the Yankees-Angels)

2005-10-04 18:18:35
256.   confucius
253. Point well taken.
2005-10-04 18:19:05
257.   Bob Timmermann
Garciaparra has missed more time the past few couple of seasons than Drew has. And even the sabermetrically friendly Red Sox had no more use for him.

It is, of course, a myth, that GMs like Beane and Epstein don't care about "character". Beane dumped Jeremy Giambi because he didn't want to put up with him anymore. Epstein (and probably the rest of the Red Sox players) wanted Nomar out of Boston.

And the Cubs were the only team that had any sort of interest in Nomar in the past offseason. And Nomar seems interested in staying in Chicago and wants to become an outfielder. That way he can block Matt Murton in left!

2005-10-04 18:20:00
258.   confucius
Sorry, Eric for upsetting you. That is meant to be taken literally.
2005-10-04 18:21:53
259.   Eric Enders

Now, do we hug like a made-for-TV movie?

2005-10-04 18:22:11
260.   Bob Timmermann
Well in the words of Marge Simpson,

Let us never speak of this again!

2005-10-04 18:23:02
261.   confucius
Only if there's background music.
2005-10-04 18:23:55
262.   capdodger
256 It's why I don't crack jokes about screen doors on submarines and the like. :-P
2005-10-04 18:24:03
263.   Mark
254 Matsui definitely benefits from more men on base. But he bats .300 and he slugs .500. Dunn...strikes out, but I'm sure most of those Ks are Olneys, right?

As for Giles, I don't see the Dodgers getting him without /really/ overspending. Sorry.

2005-10-04 18:24:33
264.   Bob Timmermann
So Peavy is out for the rest of the season now with a broken rib. He broke it during the Padres celebration after they clinched.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

2005-10-04 18:26:24
265.   Bob Timmermann
Dept. of Wishful Thinking:

"With Peavy out, the rotation for the rest of the series is in limbo. Adam Eaton would likely pitch Game 4, if necessary, and Brian Lawrence would be the likely choice for Game 5, Padres spokesman Luis Garcia said."

2005-10-04 18:26:30
266.   Eric Enders
"He broke it during the Padres celebration after they clinched."

Now that is freaking hilarious.

2005-10-04 18:27:32
267.   confucius
264. When the Padres announced "out for the season" they must have assumed that Peavy's spot in the rotation was actually going to come up again.
2005-10-04 18:32:19
268.   Fallout
249. Mark
Sure, why not? Garciaparra is the second coming of JD Drew. When he's healthy, his OPS is huge. When Garciaparra gets injured, people can all say "there's no way DePodesta saw that coming!"

He is looking more like a DH every year.

I would register the very same day.

Didn't know there was one. My new favorite site.

2005-10-04 18:34:27
269.   Bob Timmermann
I really would enjoy seeing a Game 5 in St. Louis with Chris Carpenter facing Brian Lawrence. That would be like David fighting a Goliath on steroids.
2005-10-04 18:39:16
270.   FirstMohican
263 - You say he strikes out, I say he doesn't GIDP.
2005-10-04 18:41:49
271.   Telemachos
268 Just out of idle curiosity... for those who are solidly anti-Depo, who would you like to see as the Dodgers GM and why?
2005-10-04 18:42:30
272.   HomeDePo

Didn't know there was one. My new favorite site.

Good, now you can leave us alone and blog over there with Bill Plaschke and his band of knuckleheads(half-joke, half-serious).

2005-10-04 18:42:40
273.   Mark
270 Brilliance.
2005-10-04 18:44:39
274.   Bob Timmermann
Actually Fallout, I sincerely would like to know whom you would prefer as the Dodgers GM too. I don't think you are coming from a Plaschkean perspective. I think you have an actual philosophy. But what is it?
2005-10-04 18:46:24
275.   Gen3Blue
237 Sorry if I'm way behind at this site-- but what does this lineup represent, or is it a hypothetical you are suggesting?
2005-10-04 18:54:32
276.   Mark
275 It's a hypothetical, given the money that I assume DePodesta is free to play with. My belief is that the Dodgers have 5 major holes to fill in the postseason: 1B, SS, 3B, LF, and SP. Getting those three guys fills the 1B, SS, and LF holes, and then we make do at 3B with Aybar and try our luck with the kids at SP, with a rotation of Penny, Lowe, Perez, Thompson, and Houlton/Billingsley. I don't think DePodesta can fill all 5 major holes in one offseason.
2005-10-04 18:56:02
277.   Bob Timmermann
Despite Colon's early inning troubles, he and Mussina have roughly similar pitch counts.

But if the Angels can't hit a gimpy Mike Mussina, then prepare yourself for the Yankees in the ALCS.


2005-10-04 18:56:49
278.   King of the Hobos
Laroche is batting 3rd and playing 3B, and Kemp is batting 5th and playing RF for tonight's opener
2005-10-04 19:03:37
279.   Gen3Blue
The best part is Konerko. Is he a free agent? This assumes MB is gone (I agree) and J.D. Drew is healthy ( I'm not so sure-I think he has a fragile bone condition).I doubt we want to push Billingsley, but maybe someone will emerge
2005-10-04 19:04:45
280.   Eric Enders
Thompson isn't going to be pitching anywhere for a while; he blew out his arm in LV this year.

No faith in Jackson, eh?

2005-10-04 19:17:47
281.   Bob Timmermann
What about D.J. Houlton? He could be our next ace!

Our he could be the second coming of Dave Goltz.

I'd settle for Kevin Gross.

2005-10-04 19:18:41
282.   DaveP
278 - is there a video feed for the game?
2005-10-04 19:20:17
283.   DaveP
280 & 281 - If Houlton or Jackson are the #5 next year, I expect a long season.
2005-10-04 19:23:58
284.   Vishal
[276] holes-

1B: choi. he should be the full-time starter next season(or at the very least, platooned w/saenz). if he doesn't work out, we'll find out by the trading deadline.
SS: izturis will be back by midseason, and he's under contract and presumably not tradeable while he's injured. does it make sense to get a big free agent for half a season? that's really the length of time the hole will be there. i think we should give antonio perez a shot if his defense holds up (if we get ron washington as the manager, he may help these guys with their D anyway). and if his D isn't good enough at short, robles can suffice for the rest of the time till izturis gets back.
3B: this is where i would LIKE to see us get someone for a year or so until laroche comes up, but i don't think anyone good is available. joe randa, et al. don't do anything for me. probably we should keep aybar there and see if he can continue to have a ~.400 OBP. if he falters, by midseason we can platoon perez/aybar when izturis gets back.

now, we NEED to have a LF. ideally i'd like to keep bradley too, but still, i want a big bat. give me a dunn, abreu, matsui, etc... someone of that caliber. if we are plugging in guys at the other positions like SS and 3B, we can get some premium talent here. and we can keep guys like cruz or werth or ledee as bench insurance.

also, we should have an ace starter. a guy like burnett won't come cheaply, but i don't see why we don't have the money to win the bidding. or we can trade some minor leaguers if necessary, but i don't think it's necessary. i can't believe this roster would put us over $90-95 million, as the savings of green and dreifort alone should pay for most the new outfielder and pitcher.

that would leave us with:
OF bat

that's a credible lineup.

2005-10-04 19:26:02
285.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels get to see Al Leiter now. This is probably their only chance to get back in this one.
2005-10-04 19:29:01
286.   HomeDePo
I do not get where all this Abreu stuff came from. Sounds like somebody wanted a big-hitter so bad that he made a rumor up...
2005-10-04 19:29:35
287.   HomeDePo
I do not get where all this Abreu stuff came from. Sounds like somebody wanted a big-hitter so bad that he made a rumor up...
2005-10-04 19:29:47
288.   Bob Timmermann
So was Guerrero picked off? Or was he actually trying to steal second down 4 runs in the 6th?
2005-10-04 19:33:32
289.   Vishal
someone was mentioning him the other day. it probably wouldn't happen, but it's not entirely inconceivable that the phillies would consider parting with him for a couple mid-level prospects and most of the balance of his contract.
2005-10-04 19:38:11
290.   Eric Enders
also, we should have an ace starter. a guy like burnett won't come cheaply, but i don't see why we don't have the money to win the bidding

We clearly have the money to win the bidding; the question is whether the bidding is really worth winning. Ask Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano why.

I keep beating this drum, and I guess I'll beat it again: Signing a famous (as opposed to ace) pitcher like Burnett to a long-term contract this offseason makes little sense. We already have three starting pitchers locked into long-term contracts, so Burnett would make four. What's the point of developing all these pitching prospects if all you're going to do is block them? DePo simply cannot afford to sign a pitcher whom we need for only one year to a four-year deal. If you do that, there's no place to put Billingsley, Jackson, Orenduff, Broxton, Hochevar, Miller, or whoever.

I see us getting more of a stopgap fifth starter in the Kirk Saarloos vein, and hoping Billingsley grabs that job by the All-Star break. (As BA predicts he will)

2005-10-04 19:38:56
291.   Fallout
272. HomeDePo
Good, now you can leave us alone and blog over there with Bill Plaschke and his band of knuckleheads(half-joke, half-serious).

When you get in touch with your reasonable side let me know.

FYI---I have never blogged anywhere else B4 I started here a couple-three weeks ago.
Blogging is not important to me. I know what I know and do not have a need for conformation. (Opinions are up for discussion.)

I guess the fans who have a diff opinions than you are knuckleheads and belong somewhere else?


2005-10-04 19:40:08
292.   jasonungar05
I can't wait to see what happens when the Dodgers trade Kent this offseason. I believe it will happen.

(for the record, unless we can really makes some trades and put out there a true ace and a real solid bat, then I hope it happens.)

2005-10-04 19:42:51
293.   Bob Timmermann
Telemachos and I asked politely for your opinion. Just don't respond to the angry person.
2005-10-04 19:51:49
294.   HomeDePo
291 -
Everybody knows Plashcke is a knucklehead. Plus, what is a couple-three weeks ago.
2005-10-04 19:53:45
295.   Vishal

on the other hand, having a real ace is valuable. ask bartolo colon and pedro martinez why. i'm not saying burnett is the next pedro, but he's got ace-like ability.

but you're right, i want to bring in our young pitchers. you know, for some reason i thought odalis was only signed for 2 years. i just checked and he's got a 3-year contract, which would take him through 2007. blah. i was thinking he'd be gone, so another rotation spot would open up in '07 for billingsley, and the next year penny would be gone so hochevar or miller could step up.

so originally, i was thinking if we got burnett, we could begin the season with burnett-lowe-penny-perez-jackson as our rotation. that leaves us with too many pitchers in 2007 though. but maybe we can trade one of the starters and call up billingsley at the deadline next year :)

2005-10-04 19:54:09
296.   Eric Enders
Is is just me, or are we embarking here on a strange new definition of the word "blogging?"

What Jon does is blogging. What I do is post. Right?

2005-10-04 19:57:36
297.   HomeDePo
296 - hmmmm... I do not know if it matters or not, but you are probably right.
2005-10-04 20:00:38
298.   Vishal
[296] i think that's how it is. it's jon's blog; he's the blogger. we are merely commenters (or posters) on his blog. blog blog blog. what a silly word.
2005-10-04 20:00:51
299.   Eric Enders
Vishal, I guess we disagree a little bit on Burnett's quality. I see him as a slightly above average pitcher who's an attitude problem and an injury risk to boot. I see much more Pavano in him than Pedro. And he's at the age (29 next season) where potential is pretty irrelevant unless you translate it into performance. (Think Darren Dreifort.)

Given what it would take to get him (I'm guessing 4 years/$44 million, or 5/50), I'd rather have a losing season next year than take on that sort of bad contract.

2005-10-04 20:01:09
300.   Bob Timmermann
I do think that if someone says that DePodesta has to go, then there should be a replacement suggested.

Jon asked the same of people who wanted Tracy gone.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-10-04 20:02:20
301.   Steve
Buster Olney has productive outs. Joe Buck has loud outs.
2005-10-04 20:02:34
302.   HomeDePo
I like the word blog. Just thought you should know that.
2005-10-04 20:03:56
303.   HomeDePo

Fair enough. But, just as we had slight trouble finding a suitable replacement for Tracy, the DePodesta-Haters are having the same problem.

2005-10-04 20:04:52
304.   Eric Enders
"Jon asked the same of people who wanted Tracy gone."

I think I was the one who said that people shouldn't advocate Tracy's firing unless they had a replacement in mind.

Jon was a little more moderate, requesting only that they have the qualities in mind that they would want the next manager to possess.

2005-10-04 20:07:01
305.   Vishal
tracy "front-runner" for pirates job:

2005-10-04 20:09:02
306.   Eric Enders
My (fake) sources tell me that's the first time "Pirates" and "front-runner" have been used in the same sentence since the millennium change.
2005-10-04 20:11:18
307.   DaveP
not sure if this was discussed earlier today, but did you guys catch Lasorda doing the talk radio circuit today?

He made a point of emphasizing "we all share in the credit when we are winning and everybody shares the blame when we are losing". It was pretty clear he wasn't too impressed with Tracy's refusal to accept any blame. On multiple occasions he said mistakes were made and the organization would work together to fix them and put a good product on the field next year for the fans (apologized for letting down the fans).

He also went through the list of guys Tracy and most fans complained were let go and said not a single one of them would have been a good signing (this included Beltre, Loduca, Finley and Lima). He was pretty unhappy with Beltre and called him selfish and disloyal - also said he didn't play to a level that warranted the contract he got with Seattle.

2005-10-04 20:12:07
308.   HomeDePo
304 - OK you can have credit too
2005-10-04 20:14:54
309.   dzzrtRatt
I predict the Dodgers will end up essentially giving Odalis Perez away to any team that will take on some part of his salary and send us a marginal player. Not this off-season, but sometime before his contract expires. There's something off about that guy, and whatever 'it' is stands in the way of his success.

Please, DePodesta, don't overpay for an overlong contract for an overrated free agent pitcher. There is no Colon, no Unit, no Clemens/Oswalt/Pettitte, not even a Jason Schmidt out there, and if there was, we'd only get him if we gave him the keys to Fort Knox. We need to suck it up and develop our own superstar pitchers.

I agree with whoever profiled an offseason pitching acquistion as a Sarloos type. A .500 pitcher who can pitch a lot of innings. That's all we can deal with.

The idea of getting a hard-hitting LF seems more urgent. That's a position we can pay a lot for, since nobody's on the minor league horizon who will take that job anytime soon. One headline-making acquisition, and then some little inexpensive pieces; that's DePo's shopping list.

2005-10-04 20:17:59
310.   Vishal

well, burnett is in his prime, has great stuff (including a 97 mph fastball), he strikes out a lot of batters (over 8.5 per 9 IP), he doesn't give up a ton of home runs (12 this year), he pitched over 200 innings this season and has been healthy since he recovered from his tommy john(but he doesn't have a TON of innings on his arm yet), he held batters to a .237BAA (he's got a career .230 BAA), and this year he even had a 2.42 groundball ratio to boot.

all of that sounds pretty good to me.

2005-10-04 20:18:24
311.   Eric Enders
It's not credit I'm concerned with, but incorrect words being put in Jon's mouth while he isn't here.
2005-10-04 20:18:36
312.   fawnkyj

That is what i love of Lasorda he is one tuff s.o.b. and he speaks his mind. Somebody had the balls to say what i think a lot of us have been feeling.

2005-10-04 20:20:38
313.   dzzrtRatt
Blog evolved from "weblog," which evolved from "web log," which was really a synonym for an online diary. But by calling it a "log" instead of a diary, the web log author could feel more like Captain Kirk and less like a 15-year-old girl who dots her i's with hearts.

This is Jon's blog. We all just live in it.

2005-10-04 20:25:11
314.   franklin
I live in Miami and see a fair number of Marlins games. Although I agree with your concern for taking on a large contract with the pitching talent in the pipeline, Burnett's skill set, injury history, and level of success to date remind me of Jason Schmidt circa 2001. Perhaps Schmidt had/has a better attitude but Burnett has demonstrated #1 stuff. A new team and different pitching coach might help him put it all together and make the $40M seem like a bargain. There might also be an FA discount if AJ can have Brad get Alyssa to hook him up with Shannon.
2005-10-04 20:25:23
315.   Eric Enders
That is very surprising to hear, and pleasantly so. Although I disagree with the Beltre being selfish part.

By the way, people still seem to be blasting DePo for the Lima non-signing. Did nobody notice that in 2005 he posted the worst ERA in baseball history? (Among pitchers with 30+ starts)

All true; Burnett as a potential signee has both a lot of good points and a lot of bad ones. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the 97 mph fastball, though. Brazoban's got one too...

2005-10-04 20:26:29
316.   Vishal
"captain's log, stardate ten zero four zero five: i feel as if... my deepest thoughts... are being invaded... by anonymous strangers, having petty arguments... what am... i to do??"
2005-10-04 20:27:01
317.   Eric Enders
"But by calling it a "log" instead of a diary, the web log author could feel more like Captain Kirk and less like a 15-year-old girl who dots her i's with hearts."

I only now just stopped laughing, dzzrtRat. That's the best line I've seen in a while.

2005-10-04 20:29:59
318.   DaveP
315 - he actually went into detail regarding Beltre. Talked about how the dodgers sign a young ballplayer and house them, feed them, develop their game, etc, etc and then in Beltre's case brought him up to the big leagues and stuck with him even during tough years, but he bolted after having a single big year, even though the Dodgers offered big time money. Then said there is absolutely no way the dodgers should have matched the Seattle offer.
2005-10-04 20:30:38
319.   Vishal
aw, come on, eric. brazoban still doesn't know how to pitch yet. i was just trying to reinforce the point that burnett has ace-like stuff, including a really good fastball among other things. i think you're just trying to argue with me now, hehe.
2005-10-04 20:34:27
320.   King of the Hobos
AFL update:

I don't think there's video feed. There's not even audio feed. assured me there was going to be Gameday, but I don't see it.

As for the prospects, Laroche is 1-2 with a K, and Kemp is 1-2 with an RBI double. Starting pitcher is out, but no sign of Broxton or Dannemiller

2005-10-04 20:35:32
321.   Vishal
the angels lost 4-2, by the way.
2005-10-04 20:36:51
322.   dzzrtRatt
317 Thanks. It's been a bloggy day. Tomorrow I have to do all the work I didn't do today. October is a hard month for my productivity; the arrival of DT didn't make it any easier. Although I noticed today that DT distracted me from baseball rather than encouraging me to watch.

Oh my God...I've become one of those demons Plaschke was talking about...

2005-10-04 20:38:21
323.   Eric Enders
While Tommy has a valid point there, that doesn't really separate Beltre from any number of other players. I don't think Beltre "owed" the Dodgers anything, as Tommy apparently does.

You could also look at it from Beltre's perspective: A 15-year-old kid is coerced into faking his age in order to sign with a team, works his butt off for a decade, and yet until 2004 is reviled by fans as a big disappointment. The team is constantly trying to trade him, or acquire new players to compete with him. When he finally has a big year, he does so making a relative pittance, giving his team a tremendous performance at far below market value, while playing through a serious injury to do so. After sacrificing himself both physically and economically to the team's benefit, the team makes a halfhearted offer of a contract for less years and money than he would get elsewhere. And on top of that, the team doesn't even return his phone calls.

Does this player "owe" the Dodgers anything?

2005-10-04 20:41:17
324.   Eric Enders
Agreed that Burnett has ace-like stuff; so did Kiki Jones. (Another cheap shot, sorry.)

With the Brazoban reference, I was just trying to emphasize that "ace-like stuff" does not equal "ace," and that most pitchers with ace-like stuff are in fact not aces.

2005-10-04 20:42:38
325.   DaveP
323 - yeah, except for the "halfhearted offer" (they made a great offer, any way you look at it), I agree that it could be looked at in that manner, as well. In fact, I don't really care one way or the other. Tought to argue the loyalty angle from either side. Just reporting on what Tommy had to say. In the end, I'm just glad that Beltre and his massive contract are Seattle's worry, not the Dodgers.
2005-10-04 20:55:31
326.   HomeDePo
I guess we will never here Fallouts philosophy...
2005-10-04 20:56:27
327.   King of the Hobos
Kemp had another hit, this time a 2 out rally starting single. Laroche was one of those outs (he flew out)
2005-10-04 20:59:08
328.   Bob Timmermann
What is everyone arguing for credit about now? I've lost track.
2005-10-04 21:01:03
329.   HomeDePo
328 - Eric E says that he was the first to say that if you hate DePo you need a backup. I said he could have all the credit he needs, and he said that he just does not want to put words in Jon's mouth.
2005-10-04 21:03:48
330.   Bob Timmermann
OK, this is one of our more esoteric debates then.
2005-10-04 21:06:59
331.   King of the Hobos
Laroche has a RBI double to match Kemp, Kemp up soon
2005-10-04 21:07:08
332.   HomeDePo
330 - Lol ya
2005-10-04 21:07:23
333.   Jon Weisman
Hi - finally home. I said that people who are advocating firing Tracy should not suggest a replacement unless they had good reasons for naming that replacement. I actually said it was fine to advocate firing Tracy and stop there and let DePodesta handle the search. But throwing names out haphazardly actually undermined the case for letting Tracy go.

I appreciate you all finding a way to nip the hostilities before they got out of hand. My only additional comment is to please not tell people who disagree with you to go blog somewhere else. I don't know how many times I have to say that different opinions are welcome here.

But overall, thanks.

2005-10-04 21:08:32
334.   Bob Timmermann
Go blog somewhere else Jon!


Hmm. That's an unworkable solution isn't it?

2005-10-04 21:10:34
335.   HomeDePo
333- That was the half-joke part. The half-real part was the part about Plaschke.

I am assuming that is OK.

2005-10-04 21:16:41
336.   Jon Weisman
335 - As someone earlier said, what's clear to the writer isn't always clear to the reader. But, bygones, as they used to say on "Ally McBeal."

334 - There's always the possibility I'll try again with Jon Weisman's TV Thoughts.

To say this didn't get off the ground is an understatement.

2005-10-04 21:20:54
337.   King of the Hobos
After the guy after Laroche walked, Kemp tripled in 2 runs

After 6 innings:
Laroche: 2-4, 2B, K
Kemp: 3-4, 2B, 3B (just needs the homer...)

2005-10-04 21:21:20
338.   das411
So the Cards, Yankees, and Chisox are all up one game. How insufferable will be tomorrow? *shudder*

If I emailed that obnoxious Sports Guy and asked him when he thinks he and/or his beloved Bosox jumped the shark, how many obscure movies/songs/Celtics would he mention without actually answering the question?

2005-10-04 21:48:53
339.   Bob Timmermann
According to the NY Times obit, Nipsey Russell's given name was Nipsey.

Go figure.

2005-10-04 21:56:31
340.   Bob Timmermann
I correctly pegged my brother's sidebar. He actually had two. One on Peavy. The other was "Padres Notebook".
2005-10-04 21:59:58
341.   King of the Hobos
It's all over in the desert

Laroche: 2-5, 2B, K
Kemp: 3-4, 2B, 3B, BB
Abreu, Hull, Broxton, Dannemiller: DNP

Loney: Taxi (could see time tomorrow I believe)

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