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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Moonlight Groan
2005-10-05 09:14
by Jon Weisman

There isn't an October that I don't remember bringing my portable radio to school and sneaking a listen to a playoff game between (or once even during) classes. Such will be the case for Yankee fans at 10 a.m. EDT for Game 2 of their series with the Angels.

Oh, you mean the game's at 10 p.m. EDT?


Houston at Atlanta, 1 p.m.
Boston at Chicago, 4 p.m.
New York at Los Angeles, 7 p.m.

* * *

Some quick playoff observations from Day 1, tying into the Dodgers whenever I can:

  • So, has Garret Anderson deterioriated in left field to the point of being Greg Luzinski, 1977? The 28th anniversary of this memorable Dodger finish is Friday. Courtesy of Retrosheet:

    DODGERS 9TH: Baker grounded out (third to first); Monday grounded out (second to first); DAVALILLO BATTED FOR YEAGER; On a bunt Davalillo singled to second; MOTA BATTED FOR RAUTZHAN; Mota doubled to left [Davalillo scored (error by Sizemore; assist by Luzinski), Mota to third]; Lopes singled to third [Mota scored]; ground ball off turf-seam hit Schmidt in knee and caromed to Bowa who apparently threw to 1B in time; Froemming said safe; Lopes was picked off first but was safe on an error by Garber [Lopes to second]; Russell singled to center [Lopes scored (unearned)]; Smith grounded out (pitcher to first); 3 R, 4 H, 2 E, 1 LOB. Dodgers 6, Phillies 5.

  • I still can't get over Bubba Crosby starting in center field for the Yankees in a playoff game. He must think he has died and gone to heaven - only to find heaven is a tough place to hit as well.

  • T.J. Simers showed this morning that it is possible to be harshly critical of a team's performance without turning it into an organizational jeremiad. (First time using a word alert!)

  • It was nice of Matt Clement, coveted by Dodger fans during the previous offseason, to do his best imitation of Odalis Perez's 2004 playoff performance. Everyone last year commented on Perez's negative body language - I didn't see Tuesday's game to know if Clement's was anything similar.

  • Speaking of Perez 2004, man, it is tough to pitch against St. Louis, isn't it? But I guess having a celebratory broken rib doesn't help.

    Now, Perez has been criticized in the past for saying he was too injured to pitch. But did it do the Padres any good that Jake Peavy kept his ailment a secret? San Diego outscored the Cardinals, 5-0, after Peavy's departure.

    * * *

    I originally wrote this in the comments at 6-4-2, but thought it would be worth presenting to you all:

    Despite playing in less than half as many games as Shawn Green, J.D. Drew nearly had a more productive season on a cumulative basis (37.9 VORP for Green, 31.3 for Drew). Even if you assume Drew's broken wrist only forestalled a later injury to come, even if Drew played only 100 games in 2005, Drew probably would have outperformed Green.

    Or, you can add in Dioner Navarro's VORP of 9.7 and already the tradeoff works in DePodesta's favor, even with Drew playing as little as he did.

    So would I rather have spent $16 million on Green or $11 million on Drew + $5 million on others, including Navarro? No contest.

    I want to backtrack on the "no contest" comment, because of course, the Dodgers had to pay some of Green's salary and because the Dodgers have another $44 million they potentially owe Drew that could boulder the scales the other way. But the fact that even the injured Drew, combined with Navarro, outperformed Green is rather impressive.

    * * *

    Tangotiger's 2005 Scouting Report by the Fans for the Fans is up. Nearly 1,000 fans voted, and from the Dodgers, Cesar Izturis was rated the majors' top shortstop, but Jason Grabowski and Jason Phillips were dishonored as among the worst six fielders in baseball. I provided the commentary on Izturis:

    Cesar Izturis has terrific range, great lateral and vertical reach (while also willing to dive at a moment's notice), a quick recovery and release after fielding a ball upright or on the ground, and a surprisingly strong arm for someone who is 5-foot-9. In 2004, he almost never made an error on a routine play and frequently amazed with his acrobatics on the field. In 2005, his fielding appeared to suffer on two fronts - his concentration early in the season wavered and he made more errors on routine plays than normal, and as the season progressed, back ailments limited his range and effectiveness. He underwent Tommy John surgery on his throwing arm (for reasons relating to a childhood injury) in September. Still in his mid-20s, there is every reason to believe he will return to the top echelon of National League shortstops defensively by the end of 2006.
    Check out the complete (but small sample size) Dodger results here.

  • Comments (221)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2005-10-05 10:02:11
    1.   Sam DC
    breakfast yesterday at Sam DC's:

    [Ms. Sam, reading newspaper]: "I thought you said the Dodgers' season was awful and they didn't make the playoffs?"

    [Sam DC]: "Right."

    [Ms. Sam]: "Well, this says they're in the playoffs. They play the Yankees today."

    [Sam DC]: "That's the Angels. They play the Yankees."

    [Ms. Sam]: "Well, it says right here, Los Angeles versus New York."

    Ouch . . .

    2005-10-05 10:20:08
    2.   Eric Enders
    I like Tango's project.

    The "most similar fielder" (whatever that means) to Cesar Izturis is Jim Edmonds. Which I guess means I'm going to have to become an Izturis hater like everyone else around here.

    2005-10-05 10:27:18
    3.   Jon Weisman
    ^ Not an Izturis hater.

    I'm hoping he comes back healthier and lower in the batting order by the end of next season.

    2005-10-05 10:28:52
    4.   Marty

    Nice work.

    2005-10-05 10:33:36
    5.   Bob Timmermann
    Even the OED definition of "jeremiad" has cool words in it:

    A lamentation; a writing or speech in a strain of grief or distress; a doleful complaint; a complaining tirade; a lugubrious effusion.

    2005-10-05 10:34:34
    6.   Adam M
    3 - Amen. I think both are pretty much guaranteed now.

    FWIW, Howard Stern's crew is complaining about how the Yankee game will be on "at 2:00" tonight.

    2005-10-05 10:37:03
    7.   Vishal
    i believe steve first used the word jeremiad around here a few weeks ago. nobody seemed to notice it then.
    2005-10-05 10:39:06
    8.   Adam M
    5 -

    "jeremigiambiad. - n. a lamentation, tirade, etc. made after your favorite team's player makes an error that costs them a crucial game."

    2005-10-05 10:40:44
    9.   Jon Weisman
    7 - Those helpful alerts only represent my first use of the word :)
    2005-10-05 10:42:33
    10.   Marty
    7 I'd be shocked if Bojangles hasn't used it in a post :)
    2005-10-05 10:48:28
    11.   molokai
    1977 brings back great memories. That game you described is in my top 10 all time Dodger games. I listened to that game on the radio while going to college and every play that you described is etched into my mind as Vinny called it. Phillies fans will never forgive Luzinski for not catching that very catchable double by Mota but it still came down to Russel getting the game winning hit with a clean single up the middle.

    When I was a young pup and living in Germany we didn't have TV or radio so I lived baseball through my baseball cards. I liked or disliked players based on how they looked on the cards. Vic Davilillo's 1964 card for some reason was always one of my favorites, so he became a favorite player of mine. He was even more of a favorite after that bunt single in 77.

    Tony Jackson of the Daily news continues to propogate that the Drew contract was a disaster. I wonder what he thinks of the Beltre contract?

    2005-10-05 10:52:31
    12.   Eric Enders
    Perhaps to make up for all the complaining I do about the L.A. writers, I feel compelled to mention it when they do something non-stupid. So, I'll point out that Tony Jackson's article in this morning's paper is actually pretty good, IMO the best mainstream media piece so far on the Tracy firing.
    2005-10-05 10:58:37
    13.   Eric Enders
    Speaking of Izturis, what are the odds of him repeating as GG winner? The voters are notorious for giving it to players with established reps, regardless of whether they actually deserve it. Which leads me to believe he might have a chance.
    2005-10-05 11:02:21
    14.   Vishal
    [12] it's less about the tracy firing than about depodesta.

    payroll is gonna be $80 million?
    shawn green "patrolled" the clubhouse?


    2005-10-05 11:09:14
    15.   bigcpa
    ESPN 710 named Jerry Royster as a front-runner for manager along with Collins. Can someone run Royster through the saber-detector? What do we know about his managerial style?
    2005-10-05 11:13:44
    16.   jasonungar05
    If basbeball managers need leaders to "patrol the clubhouse" what do baseball managers manage then?
    2005-10-05 11:14:08
    17.   Art H Tracy
    12 It was OK, but several things still made me grind my teeth, especially:

    "DePodesta will be hamstrung by the unwieldy contracts he gave out last winter"

    Kent - a signing that worked out beyond my wildest expectations.

    Lowe - not great, but OK so far.

    Drew - It's reasonable to expect Drew to play 500 more games for the dodgers with a 900 ops for $44M. If he plays 140 games with a 900 ops in 2006 for 11M and leaves, that's OK too.

    Valentin - we're out $4M. Does that hamstring us?

    Beltre - Depo didn't sign him. The Mariners are hamstrung with his contract.

    Finley - I guess we would have been better off with him than Valentin.

    Green - I suppose Depo could have extended him through 2007 for an additional $16M. That might have worked out about like the Lowe deal. Of course, we wouldn't be hamstrung by Navarro's arb years.

    I didn't pay much attention to the FA outcomes (other than the Dodgers and ex-Dodgers.) Anyone have a quick list of the FA bargains?

    2005-10-05 11:20:24
    18.   Eric Enders
    Royster was the one in charge of Jose Hernandez-gate in Milwaukee, benching his best player so he would avoid breaking the strikeout record.

    The 2002 Brewers ranked 4th out of 30 MLB teams in sacrifices, even though there was rarely anyone to bunt over -- they ranked last in MLB in OBP.

    They also had a below average 65% success rate in stealing bases, which may or may not indicate that he's overly fond of the hit-and-run.

    2005-10-05 11:26:40
    19.   Adam M
    Newsday reported that the M's offered Beltre to the Angels. Does anyone buy this? Was it reported anywhere else?
    2005-10-05 11:29:54
    20.   Screwgie
    17 and just to add to the discussion about the Jackson article:

    Jackson claims the Dodgers need four power bats next season at all four corner spots. I don't really agree with the assessment that the Dodgers need a power hitting firstbaseman and thirdbaseman. The Choi/Seanz platoon was actually effective and with a power hitting secondbaseman in tow, the team could afford a high OBP yet light hitting thirdbaseman.

    We need one big bat. Two if Bradley doesn't return.

    2005-10-05 11:34:57
    21.   Steamer

    Your recap of that Phillies game brought back some great memories, of Vic Davalillo in particular.

    But did you really use the words "J.D.Drew" and "productive" in the same sentence in talking about the 2005 season?

    2005-10-05 11:37:18
    22.   Vishal
    [20] my sentiments exactly. i don't see why bradley shouldn't return. 1) we can't get anything by trading him 2) he's a good player 3)he's worth more than he makes. something needs to be done about the conflict issues surrounding him, but some team will be willing to continue to work with him; so why shouldn't that team be us?

    the pool of available outfielders is small enough and we need one already. making it 2 by ditching bradley isn't going to help things any.

    2005-10-05 11:40:37
    23.   blue22
    22 - Figure that decision will be made by McCourt, not Depo. If McCourt really believes in this whole "character" thing, the headache might not balance the VORP.

    Anyone heard a rehab schedule for Milton? Full strength by ST?

    2005-10-05 11:47:18
    24.   Vishal
    they've already fired tracy and lost 90 games. what will keeping bradley cost them in PR at this point anyway? really the only thing they can do to bring the fans back on their side is to win next season (and maybe a couple of shrewd signings of a bat and a manager this offseason might help start things). the actual act of getting rid of bradley wouldn't really do much to help the ownership's image at this point, so i don't think the small gain in PR points is worth the loss of bradley in baseball terms.
    2005-10-05 11:47:41
    25.   Jon Weisman
    21 - It wasn't my recap, but glad you liked it. As for your second question ... yes, it looks like I did.
    2005-10-05 11:47:56
    26.   bigcpa
    Jackson thinks they need "names" at the 4 corner spots- not just performance. He probably considers Erstad and Garret Anderson as viable corner guys.

    My best case for the corners is:
    1b: Choi/Saenz
    3b: LaRoche
    LF: Abreu/Giles
    RF: Drew (Bradley in CF)

    We should get 90+ HR from that group. And that's 1 new bat from the outside.

    2nd best case:
    RF: Cruz Jr. with Drew in CF

    Pencil in Antonio at SS and you've got 8 tough outs for the first time in LA Dodger history (at least in my memory).

    2005-10-05 11:59:56
    27.   Tommy Naccarato
    When I was in Elementary school, all the way to Junior High, teachers would allow us to see the World Series on T.V. They would roll in the T.V. and classes would combine--the entire time while doing our homework. It was pretty cool!

    I remember clearly seeing the Dodgers get beat by Baltimore in 66'; St. Louis behind the genius of Bob Gibson beat the Carl Yaz & Rico Petrocelli Red Sox in 67'; in 68' it was Detroit with Denny McClain & Mickey Lolich beating St. Louis.

    I will never forget every kid in class rooting against Baltimore in 69' those amazing Mets delivered, but we hated it the next year when the Orioles came back and beat Cincinnati on the back of a Dave McNally grand slam.

    Oh the memories!

    2005-10-05 11:59:58
    28.   Eric Enders
    FWIW, Drew was the second-most valuable Dodger this year as per Win Shares.
    2005-10-05 12:01:46
    29.   Eric Enders
    "When I was in Elementary school, all the way to Junior High, teachers would allow us to see the World Series on T.V. They would roll in the T.V. and classes would combine--the entire time while doing our homework. It was pretty cool!"

    [sigh] I grew up in a basketball town, so we always got that treatment for the NCAA Tournament but, alas, never the World Series.

    2005-10-05 12:06:34
    30.   Tommy Naccarato
    28 Eric,
    I guess this would show the true value of Win Shares, no?

    About the NCAA Tournament, we never got to see that, but one game that I slightly remember, and I think it was UCLA vs Houston? (I ccan't remember)

    Anyway, little did I know then that eventually "Lefty Lynn From The Corner" would become one of my golf buddies.

    2005-10-05 12:07:24
    31.   Tommy Naccarato
    "ccan't" was a cyber studder! :)
    2005-10-05 12:09:59
    32.   Tommy Naccarato
    As in C-c-c-cathcart Towers Hotel!
    2005-10-05 12:12:46
    33.   Jon Weisman
    30 - I guess it would, Tommy.

    Who is the subjectivist's pick for second-most valuable Dodger in 2005?

    Great memories, by the way!

    2005-10-05 12:15:29
    34.   SMY
    I wish these writers would throw out some names of players they think the team should target. Where are all these power-hitting third basemen that are available? I can only think of a handful in MLB off the top of my head, let alone ones in the free agent market.
    2005-10-05 12:31:20
    35.   Jacob L
    33 In order to pick the Subjective Second Most Valuable Player (SSMVP), I suppose we'll have to use the same method that allows people to call Figgins the Angels MOST valuable. More valuable even than Vlad, who's only selling point is that he's really, really good at baseball, but that's another story.

    Anyway, by that reckoning the SSMVP of the 2005 Dodgers is (drumroll, please) Mike Edwards. He can play the infield and the outfield.

    2005-10-05 12:39:42
    36.   Vishal
    [35] - SSMVP

    i'm guessing it's probaby olmedo saenz. olmedo was good starting or off the bench, he "played" two positions, didn't go on the DL the whole season, played through back pain, had the 2nd most RBIs on the whole team, never complained, was a "thoroughly professional hitter", and most importantly, kept that worthless korean guy on the bench for significant periods of time.

    2005-10-05 12:40:26
    37.   Bob Timmermann
    My choices for the SSMVP:

    Oscar Robles
    Duaner Sanchez

    2005-10-05 12:43:24
    38.   Screwgie
    Bradley is going to have a hard time changing his spots. He was a headcase going back to his days at Long Beach Poly High School and every year it's been the same story with him. That's an obvious pattern, and therefore odds are likely (though not certain) that he will continue to cause problems next year no matter how much counseling he recieves.

    That said, I agree that he is our best option, Plaschke be damned. Furthermore, I'm more concerned about his pattern of getting injured. The blow-ups, while distracting and supplying fodder for the press, don't really lose ballgames for the most part. His injuries hurt the team much more, IMHO.

    2005-10-05 12:46:14
    39.   DXMachina
    Peter Gammons just reported that Macha is gone in Oakland.
    2005-10-05 12:48:08
    40.   Adam M
    38 - Amen to that. As big as an MB supporter as I've been in the past, the team needs a bigger commitment from him than words. First time these incidents happened with the Dodgers, he showed contrition and a commitment to managing his anger. More promises of that type mean little or nothing now.

    SSMVP: Repko, for playing hard every second he's on the field. Great arm, great baserunner.

    2005-10-05 12:48:15
    41.   Bob Timmermann
    So will it be a Tracy-Macha cage match to get the Pittsburgh job?
    2005-10-05 12:50:34
    42.   Eric Enders
    "Bradley is going to have a hard time changing his spots. He was a headcase going back to his days at Long Beach Poly High School and every year it's been the same story with him. That's an obvious pattern"

    While that's all true, another obvious pattern is that he's been causing less trouble with each ensuing year.

    2005-10-05 12:52:31
    43.   Icaros
    This news will certainly make the person whose blog is titled "Ken Macha is a Moron and I Hate Him" happy.

    2005-10-05 12:58:10
    44.   Tommy Naccarato
    The Subjectivists have met and they were easily impressed. We had our list of candidates, but none of them looked like Robert Redford. This was a very ugly Dodger year.

    None the less, the candidates were:

    --Oscar Robles: Did a great job in filling in for the Gold Glover of last year.

    --Wille Aybar: Us Subjectivists wanted to name a candy bar after him called, "The Aybar" or "Willie Bar."

    We Subjectivists expect great things from Willie in 2006, which will undoubtedly mean he'll get traded to a pennant contender at the trading deadline next season. Why it took so long to bring him up in the first place is beyond me. Even though the season was over in mid-May, by God they could have won the division if they had.

    Lets face it, this guy is never going to have a succesful career as a Dodger. He'll find success as a player in another city. We might as well accept this now.

    --Jason Repko: We liked his hustle. It reminded us of the days of Butler & Finley, now only if they both could hit.

    --Hee Sop Bok Choi The Subjectivists are still trying to figure out why someone who strikes most everytime he gets a bat in his hand, gets so much respect & praise from the UberSabers. It's as almost if the UberSaber's have channeled the strengths of Sun Yung Kim (leader of the Moonies) for complaining alone.

    And yes, Jim Spacey should have given him a chance to hit from the other side, but look at it this way, if he did, he still might be manager.

    --Jose Cruz Jr.: Some might not think too much of Josie, but the Subjectivists think with a little seasoning he could become the next Juan Encarcinon. Perfect multiple player trade bait for when they shuttle Aybar, Robles and Jeff Kent off at next year's trading deadline. Sign him now otherwise we might have to include another future talent in the deal.

    --Antonio Perez: Antonio never got a chance to fully prove himself. He'll be able to do so by late May when the Dodgers are out of the 2006 season by then. Terry Collins will hate him because he doesn't know how to be obedient and just because Terry Collins doesn't think any of his players have ever been obedient-period!

    And the winner is...... (The envelope Bob)

    Willie Aybar!

    2005-10-05 12:58:53
    45.   blue22
    So Oakland needs a new manager then too. Could be an interesting situation with Beane vs. Depo possibly hunting for the same guys.
    2005-10-05 13:01:14
    46.   Eric Enders
    "First time these incidents happened with the Dodgers, he showed contrition and a commitment to managing his anger. More promises of that type mean little or nothing now."

    I suppose this is going to cement my reputation as Milton Bradley's Biggest Fan, but why would those promises mean nothing now? I mean, he didn't exactly break the promises he made before. He attended the anger management classes. He was much more friendy to the media. He promised to control his anger better, and did, with a notable exception. He promised not to get ejected from a single game in 2005, and kept that promise. Only once did he express any anger at the ballpark, and that was after a heart-to-heart talk with the manager from which he emerged in tears. Even his domestic troubles, which bother me more than all his other baggage combined, appear to have been at least somewhat overblown. (At least in my opinion, after listening to the 911 call.) And Kent's already given the green light for Bradley's return, removing Milton's only real in-house obstacle.

    I'm not saying he's a saint, or a candidate for world's best husband. But he still seems to be on the road to getting his act together, albeit ambling down that road at a leisurely pace.

    2005-10-05 13:05:38
    47.   Tommy Naccarato
    Like Paul Giamatti's peculiar Oscar snub from the Academy Awards this year, so goes Olmeado Seanz.

    I like Olmeado, The rest of the voting Subjectivists didn't. So it goes.....

    2005-10-05 13:05:40
    48.   Telemachos
    44 Tommy, your post made me idly think of what such trade bait might offer.

    While I'm high on both Aybar and Cruz (for the money, in anyway), does anyone think packaging, say, the two of them (or perhaps A. Perez instead of Aybar) would garner a worthy player in return?

    What about Aybar/Cruz/Odalis Perez?

    Realistically, we don't have much trade-bait, unless we ship Kent somewhere or offer a pile of our highly regarded prospects.

    2005-10-05 13:06:38
    49.   DaveP
    Macha lives in Pittsburgh and was initially listed as the front runner for the job until everyone figured he'd sign a multi-year deal with Oakland.

    If not Pittsburgh, what is left for Tracy? Florida to re-unite with Loduca? Although I still predict Loduca gets traded to make room for Josh Willingham in a cost cutting move.

    2005-10-05 13:10:42
    50.   rageon
    Wow, lots of GM/Manager turnover in the past couple of days.

    With Macha gone, I've got to think that Washington is the favorite for that job, which means his odds of coming to LA go down quite a bit. So that's a little disappointing. As much as he's an unknown, I'm not sure any of the other candidates excite me any more.

    Anyone else wondering just how pissed off Gady Fuson is about now? I always thought that the reason he left Oakland for Texas was that he understand that the GM job would be his as soon as Hart steps down. And to passed over for a 28 year old. That couldn't have gone over too well.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2005-10-05 13:12:06
    51.   Adam M
    "He promised to control his anger better, and did, with a notable exception." Unfortunately that exception is the real problem here. I agree that his ballpark behavior has been much better, and could care less about the water bottle or him butting heads with Kent (from what I've heard and read, it would be pretty hard for anyone to work alongside Kent for a full year and not be rubbed the wrong way at some point). The problem is the domestic violence stuff. He's kind of on his third strike with me on that one, and it'll bother me if neither he nor the Dodgers acknowledge it and take serious steps to ensure it won't happen again.
    2005-10-05 13:12:27
    52.   Icaros
    I'm going to laugh myself to sleep if Tracy ends up not getting a managing job now and has to go back to being a bench coach somewhere. It'll be worth it even if the Dodgers have to pay his alimony.

    "Does my record speak for itself? I think it's fair to say that there's certainly a strong possibility that it does."

    2005-10-05 13:12:48
    53.   rageon
    48 We don't have much to trade? Last I checked, we had a top 3 farm system As farm as trading a pile of prospects, luckily we've got a few piles of them. The bad thing about having top 20 prospects is that those are the players teams always ask for, but even if you take Guzman and Billingsley off the board, we've still gone any system other than probably Anaheim beat.
    2005-10-05 13:14:10
    54.   Bob Timmermann
    With the joke about Choi in there, I'd really prefer if my name had been left out of that comment in even in its very tangential way.
    2005-10-05 13:14:13
    55.   Eric Enders
    "With Macha gone, I've got to think that Washington is the favorite for that job, which means his odds of coming to LA go down quite a bit."

    Didn't somebody say here yesterday that Bob Geren was being groomed by Beane to be the next A's manager?

    2005-10-05 13:17:06
    56.   Kilgore Trout

    Thanks for including the look back at that game with the Phillies. It's still my favorite 9th inning ever (especially the Davalillo bunt).

    I apologize if this was mentioned in the previous chat and I just missed it, but did anyone notice this Plaschke quote about Choi:
    "In other words, he didn't give a whit about the tiny size of Hee-Seop Choi's contract; the big stiff couldn't play."

    The big stiff couldn't play?

    Isn't this line unbelievably inane, even by Plaschke's standards?

    I don't even think Tracy would have said that about Choi.

    2005-10-05 13:18:46
    57.   Bob Timmermann
    The lone former Dodger on the Braves roster is actually starting in left field today: Brian Jordan.

    Todd Hollandsworth was left off the roster. So was Dan Kolb.

    And the Astros take the early lead in the Low Ratings Series.

    2005-10-05 13:23:40
    58.   Eric Enders
    I think the umpires should have forfeited this game to Houston based solely on Atlanta's hideous red uniforms.
    2005-10-05 13:28:15
    59.   Icaros
    58 I remember the days when no opposing team could ever have uglier uniforms than the Astros.
    2005-10-05 13:28:54
    60.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm very grateful then that I'm at work today and will miss this game.

    Orlando Palmeiro is starting?

    2005-10-05 13:30:58
    61.   Bob Timmermann
    Astros starting catcher Brad Ausmus had an OPS this season of 677.

    His backup, Raul Chavez, was at 472.

    They are the Dave Ross-Brent Mayne combo of the 2005 playoffs.

    2005-10-05 13:32:51
    62.   Adam M
    57 - Which raises an interesting point: anybody who wants to undermine the arguments about chemistry, character etc. being the key to making the playoffs need look no further than Brain Jordan's tenure with the Dodgers. The guy got the best clippings imaginable before coming over. How many pieces did we see about him extolling his stat-blind virtues, and citing how his teams had an uncanny knack for making the playoffs the previous [big #] consecutive years? How many times did he make the playoffs in LA?
    2005-10-05 13:39:00
    63.   blue22
    55 - That was me. is his bio on the A's website.

    Geren had a very successful career managing in the A's minor leagues, and is now the bullpen coach in the bigs.

    2005-10-05 13:44:23
    64.   Vishal
    If not Pittsburgh, what is left for Tracy? Florida to re-unite with Loduca? Although I still predict Loduca gets traded to make room for Josh Willingham in a cost cutting move.

    that would be a delicious, HILARIOUS irony if tracy becomes the manager of the marlins only to have his precious dukie traded away AGAIN. hahahahah

    i bet if he goes to florida he will ask for a no-loduca-trade clause or something.

    2005-10-05 13:53:08
    65.   BlueMamma
    Of course the game doesn't start at 10am. That would be 7 am LA time, and, as Vin Scully says, "In baseball you have day games and night games, and even the occasional twi-night double-header, but you never see first thing in the morning games. That's because Mornings are for You and Farmer John."
    2005-10-05 13:57:28
    66.   Vishal
    [65] i could hear his voice perfectly in my head as i read that.
    2005-10-05 13:59:53
    67.   King of the Hobos
    Laroche not playing today for Phoenix, but Abreu is. Abreu is 1-2 with an RBI double. Kemp singled him in, and struck out
    2005-10-05 14:00:00
    68.   Robert Fiore
    God, in my mind's eye I can still see Greg Luzinski's back as he flailed away at that ball hit over his head. I had a bus to catch and I was on my feet ready to head out the door when Mota got his hit. I was able to see the Dodgers win and still make the bus. Biggest thrill of my Dodger watching life. Second was seeing Don Sutton come in to relieve in the last game of 1980 -- one of the few times Lasorda obeyed the instructions I screamed through the TV screen.

    (Kirk Gibson, you ask? This never quite seemed real to me. My reaction was to sit stock still and say "I don't believe this word Jon doesn't want on his website.")

    And you want to hear something awful? Last week Manny Mota was in the office where I work and nobody told me until after he'd left. It was a reception for dignitaries from the Dominican Republic.

    2005-10-05 14:00:57
    69.   D4P
    What would be even more hilarious is if the team LoDuca was traded to was our very own Los Angeles Dodgers of Los Angeles. Now THAT would be funny.
    2005-10-05 14:06:21
    70.   Eric Enders
    FWIW, I didn't buy Vinny's talk about the impossible -- I called Gibby's homer before it happened.

    Of course, I was 11 years old, and was thereafter disappointed every time in 1989 and '90 he didn't hit a homer on demand.

    2005-10-05 14:09:24
    71.   Marty
    I was on my couch when Gibson came up feeling very depressed. The next thing I knew, my hands had hit the ceiling and I was scaring my neighbor with my shouting "it's gone!!!!"
    2005-10-05 14:09:26
    72.   Eric Enders
    This afternoon's color commentator, BTW, is Eric Karros.

    I fully expect to see Mondesi and Hollandsworth doing tonight's games. Since they aren't needed by the Braves anymore.

    2005-10-05 14:10:42
    73.   Bob Timmermann
    I still think that Mike Davis drawing a walk as a pinch hitter off of Eckersley was truly the impossible.

    Chris Kahrl told me that Game 1 of the 1988 WS so upset him that he went and drank several shots of whiskey (or tequila). I forget which.

    2005-10-05 14:11:29
    74.   blue22
    70 - I remember I thought of it at the last second, like it dawned on me that if he hit a homerun, we'd win the game.

    I guess I was that intimidated by Eck in those days. Just reach base...a homerun was an afterthought.

    And poor Mike Davis never gets any credit for drawing a 2-out walk against a guy that walked, what, 4 guys that year.

    I was 13, btw.

    2005-10-05 14:12:13
    75.   Eric Enders
    I think you might have the wrong pronoun there. Unless you met Chris a long time ago.
    2005-10-05 14:12:38
    76.   blue22
    73 - Bob, does this mean I'm a "great mind"?
    2005-10-05 14:13:23
    77.   Bob Timmermann
    The pronoun was correct at the time. It was during the SABR convention in Boston. We sat next to each other at Fenway.
    2005-10-05 14:14:37
    78.   Icaros
    I was just hoping that Gibson would get a walk so Sax could come up and tie the game with an opposite-field single.
    2005-10-05 14:15:13
    79.   Eric Enders
    Eckersley has said that he pitched around Davis because he was still thinking of his teammate the prior year who hit 22 HR, not the guy who batted .196 with the Dodgers.
    2005-10-05 14:15:30
    80.   Vishal
    [69] that scenario would never happen. if lo duca got traded to pittsburgh, though, that would pack some ironic punch.
    2005-10-05 14:15:45
    81.   Bob Timmermann

    I only respect you for your mind.

    Eckersley walked a whopping 11 batters in 1988.

    He walked 3 in 1989 and 4 in 1990.

    2005-10-05 14:17:07
    82.   Eric Enders
    Crapola. Overrated Andruw strikes.
    2005-10-05 14:18:00
    83.   Jon Weisman
    Far too early to know for sure, but will the 2005 playoffs go down as "The Year Without Drama?"
    2005-10-05 14:18:28
    84.   Icaros
    75, 77 - I'm learning some surprising things about the SABR crowd.
    2005-10-05 14:18:58
    85.   Eric L
    70 I was 11 at the time as well and I was convinced that Gibby was going to do something special. I was also convinced that the Dodgers were going to win the series that year because they had gone 7 against the Mets while the A's had to sit and wait for them.

    If the same situation happened now, this slightly jaded 28 year old probably would be scared to death of seeing the Dodgers play a similar team to the '88 A's.

    2005-10-05 14:19:17
    86.   blue22
    81 - So, the walk and HR were equally impressive. Eck gave up a combined 7 HR's the next 2 years, matching his 7 combined bb's.
    2005-10-05 14:19:27
    87.   Eric Enders
    Karros just called Marcus Giles a dunce, albeit in a nice way.

    Is that kind of like being called short by Phil Rizzuto?

    2005-10-05 14:19:52
    88.   Jon Weisman
    Man, I either posted 83 at just the wrong time or just the right time.
    2005-10-05 14:22:54
    89.   LetsGoDodgers
    How about LoDuca to the Mets this offseason? Preferably 2 weeks after the Marlins announce they've hired Jim Tracy as their new bullpen coach.

    Hey, a guy can dream...

    2005-10-05 14:24:03
    90.   Marty
    Tony Jackson in his agate notes (apparently only available in print) said Brad Penny is a "negative clubhouse prescence". Anyone else heard that? Is it because of the gallon of milk gag?
    2005-10-05 14:24:11
    91.   molokai
    Great game going on in Atlanta. Both stud pitchers do not have it today. Rooting for Atlanta as it may be my only chance to see a World Series game.
    2005-10-05 14:24:34
    92.   Eric Enders
    Off topic, but does anybody see Macha or SABR member Larry Dierker coming to L.A.?
    2005-10-05 14:25:26
    93.   molokai
    Met's are supposed to be a lock to sign Ramon Hernandez.

    Josh Willingham cannot catch and will never be a major league starting catcher. He will be the next Craig Wilson.

    2005-10-05 14:25:33
    94.   Eric L
    89 How were the Mets on the heart-and-soul scale? They might just need a Dukey type to light a fire. (just so I don't get accused of anything, I was being a tiny bit sarcastic).

    Would the Mets fans at BTF howl if the Mets picked up LoDuca?

    2005-10-05 14:25:35
    95.   Icaros
    I knew the Dodgers would win because their pitching was better than the overrated A's. I lived in the Bay Area and always had to hear about how great Dave Stewart was because he always won 20 games. No one ever mentioned that his ERA was always just pretty good.

    I also didn't fear Storm Davis at all.

    I was in 8th grade in '88 and, except for the Rams finally winning a Superbowl, the sports world has been decidedly unmagical ever since. The Lakers have provided some nice moments, but I expected those.

    2005-10-05 14:26:05
    96.   Eric Enders
    "Is it because of the gallon of milk gag?"

    Or because he's Choi's best friend.

    Seriously, it's hard to know whether to interpret Jackson's statement as "All Penny's teammates hate him" or "Penny refused me an interview last time I asked."

    2005-10-05 14:26:39
    97.   molokai
    No, but it would be cool. He would be on my short list, if not as a manager at least as an announcer to replace our 2nd string group.
    2005-10-05 14:27:26
    98.   Bob Timmermann
    My guesses.

    Macha - maybe
    Dierker - almost zero

    2005-10-05 14:27:27
    99.   Eric L
    90 Maybe Penny is a negative clubhouse presence because of Alyssa Milano. The guys on the team were probably jealous and thought "how did that big oaf pull something like that?"
    2005-10-05 14:28:22
    100.   molokai
    I remember Dave Stewart outdueling Roger Clemens whenever they met but that could just be a faulty memory.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2005-10-05 14:28:36
    101.   Icaros
    92 I have no idea, but I'm interested to know how those two would appeal to you, Eric.
    2005-10-05 14:28:40
    102.   Eric Enders
    Except the verb used was probably not "pull."
    2005-10-05 14:28:56
    103.   Bob Timmermann
    That preempts my joke about Jason Repko being a big fan of "Charmed"
    2005-10-05 14:29:14
    104.   molokai
    Or he's a very jealous man and is driving everyone crazy as she checks out her next conquest.
    2005-10-05 14:29:23
    105.   Icaros
    100 No, you're right, that usually did happen back then.
    2005-10-05 14:29:49
    106.   Eric L
    I had to keep it clean for the DT crowd.
    2005-10-05 14:30:29
    107.   Jon Weisman
    Why would DePo want a Beane ways-parter?
    2005-10-05 14:31:00
    108.   Marty
    106 After yesterday's jokes?
    2005-10-05 14:32:19
    109.   Marty
    First jeremiad and now ways-parter
    2005-10-05 14:32:51
    110.   Icaros
    108 Forget the jokes, what about yesterday's rant?
    2005-10-05 14:32:53
    111.   Eric Enders
    Frankly, I don't really know enough about most of the candidates to express an informed opinion. However, the names that don't make me immediately want to vomit are:


    2005-10-05 14:33:42
    112.   molokai
    Who is Hayes? 1st I've heard him mentioned.
    2005-10-05 14:33:50
    113.   blue22
    107 - Kinda like Art Howe, I'd assume any Beane cast-offs are most likely black-listed by the SABR crowd.
    2005-10-05 14:33:53
    114.   Bob Timmermann
    Although Dierker grew up in L.A. (went to Taft I believe), I've heard him say that he's happy living in Texas and really enjoyed Houston.

    He's lived there a long time. He survived a dangerous blood vessel problem in his brain. He's got a nice job as a TV analyst. Why would he want to take another job?

    2005-10-05 14:33:58
    115.   Marty
    110 Sorry, I was too befogged to remember
    2005-10-05 14:34:54
    116.   Bob Timmermann
    That would be Von "5-for-1" Hayes.
    2005-10-05 14:35:02
    117.   Eric L
    104 Maybe he's scared that Lowe will still Alyssa away from him.
    2005-10-05 14:36:08
    118.   Eric Enders
    Von Hayes, manager of Oakland's AA team and former Moneyball all-star.
    2005-10-05 14:37:11
    119.   oldbear
    90. I agree on the Alyssa Milano thing. Jealousy sometimes makes its rounds on the clubhouse.

    One wonders how well Mrs. Lisa Guerrero was liked also?

    2005-10-05 14:37:51
    120.   Icaros
    If Orel Hershiser really possesses all of the characteristics I've projected onto him, then he'd be my first choice.

    For all I know, though, he could be a bunting, Olney-loving, Korean-first-baseman-hating foolio.

    2005-10-05 14:39:34
    121.   oldbear
    120. Of course this is why 'chemistry' and 'being liked' is so pointless in baseball. If you work in an office of 25 people, I doubt most will like everyone.

    We could bring in Barry Zito and he could have a CY Young year next year, but because he plays his guitar in the clubhouse, I bet a few wont like him. Or because he's more 'hollywood' than they are...


    2005-10-05 14:40:32
    122.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm sure that like most pro athletes, the Dodgers players had only the utmost respect for Ms. Guerrero. They judged her solely on her abilities as a television reporter.

    Until the Playboy spread comes out in January.

    2005-10-05 14:41:19
    123.   Eric Enders
    Hershiser doesn't make me want to vomit, either. But we have no evidence of his openness to a DePo-style plan.

    A better idea for someone that cerebral, I think, would be to hire him in the front office and let him spend a couple years learning the benefits of sabermetrics. Then in case New Manager X fails for whatever reason, guess who's waiting.

    2005-10-05 14:41:25
    124.   Eric L
    121 And to continue on with the jealousy thing, I'm thinking that Mr. Zito and Mr. Penny wouldn't be fast friends. Unless Alyssa breaks Penny's heart and the two could share "war" stories.

    And I promise, this will be my last post that contains the words "Alyssa" or "Milano".

    2005-10-05 14:41:42
    125.   Icaros
    Until the Playboy spread comes out in January.

    For real?

    2005-10-05 14:42:53
    126.   Icaros
    123 Maybe pitching coach if Colborn leaves?
    2005-10-05 14:43:13
    127.   Langhorne
    When I was a kid my school confiscated radios brought to school by students. I'm convinced that the principal was reselling them out of the trunk of his car. But my sixth grade teacher had a big console stereo in his classroom and would turn on the WS games for us. So I'd like to thank Mr. Hermann of Forts Ferry Elementary School in Latham, New York.
    2005-10-05 14:43:33
    128.   molokai
    Didn't know ole Von Hayes had ended up working for the A's. Julio Franco was one of the 5 players traded for him in 1982. What were the odds that Julio would have been playing 13 years after Hayes retired and starting at 1st base in a playoff game.
    2005-10-05 14:43:46
    129.   Eric Enders
    "We could bring in Barry Zito and he could have a CY Young year next year, but because he plays his guitar in the clubhouse, I bet a few wont like him."

    Dave Hansen once played me a Pearl Jam song in the Dodger clubhouse. His teammates didn't seem to mind.

    I understand that if you're a member of the A's, playing your guitar in the clubhouse is a contractual requirement. Even Huston Street has picked it up from Zito already.

    2005-10-05 14:45:13
    130.   Bob Timmermann
    Ms. Guerrero has announced she has done a spread for Playboy. The exact date of its release is apparently still undecided at this time.

    But I really just read the magazine to get allergic reactions to the cologne ads.

    2005-10-05 14:45:24
    131.   Marty
    In case you have not seen it, the boys over at Yard Work have a nice take on Tracy and Trammell

    2005-10-05 14:46:09
    132.   molokai
    Didn't the Yankee's used to complain about Bernie Williams playing his classical guitar in the clubhouse.

    While chemistry may be overblown I think getting rid of players like Sammy Sosa who dominate a clubhouse can only be a good thing.

    2005-10-05 14:46:14
    133.   oldbear
    125. I was actually talking about Scott Erickson. Although with his being an old guy, and Lisa G being an old gal, maybe there wasnt any rampant jealousy.

    And why would anyone get upset about losing Alyssa Milano? Would anyone really want be like #30th of men on her list.

    Being #2-#7 is a good range.

    I'd feel uncomfortable being #1, or anything after #7.

    2005-10-05 14:47:01
    134.   Eric L
    129 I wonder if Kelly Wunsch played his guitar in the clubhouse this year.
    2005-10-05 14:47:43
    135.   Icaros
    133 You can't always be sure what number you really are, though.
    2005-10-05 14:48:00
    136.   oldbear
    129. True. I once saw Barry Zito play live on that short lived Chris Connely ESPN show. He wasnt bad. He reminded me of Rob Thomas. Not that he was as good or anything, but same style.
    2005-10-05 14:51:50
    137.   Eric Enders
    I wonder if Alfonseca is good at the guitar.
    2005-10-05 14:52:11
    138.   Marty
    Wunsch probably tripped over his guitar.
    2005-10-05 14:57:01
    139.   molokai
    Thanks, that was funny.
    2005-10-05 14:57:08
    140.   Eric Enders
    I detest commercials, but I have to admit, that Kirk Gibson wheaties ad is pretty amusing.
    2005-10-05 14:58:24
    141.   natepurcell
    the slight chance that zito is available this offseason and the slighter chance tha the dodgers actually acquire him... i think that could cause major chemistry problems on our pitching staff.

    zito... penny... milano... HOLLYWOOD BABY!

    2005-10-05 14:59:11
    142.   popup
    Remembering Sandy:

    Sandy Koufax made his eighth major league appearance by pitching in relief on August 31, 1955 against the Braves in a 13-8 loss at Ebbets Field. In the worst outing of his young major league career, Sandy gave up 5 hits and 4 runs in 1 plus inning of work. Sandy's pitching line was 5 hits and 4 earned runs, with no walks or strikeouts

    Thanks to the book Koufax, written by Sandy and Ed Linn, and retrosheet.

    Stan from Tacoma

    2005-10-05 14:59:59
    143.   Steve
    2005-10-05 15:00:32
    144.   natepurcell
    which high profile players are rumored to be available in trades this winter?
    2005-10-05 15:07:38
    145.   D4P
    Jeff Kent, Odalis Perez, Derek Lowe
    2005-10-05 15:11:55
    146.   Icaros
    143 It might be a Long Beach thing.
    2005-10-05 15:12:13
    147.   King of the Hobos
    144 Delgado, Thome, and a lot of rumored names (Abreu, Pena/Kearns/Dunn). Not too many pitchers said to be available

    Did the announcer actually think Orlando Palmeiro could hit a grand slam? And that would have crushed Devine (he's already given up 2 in 5 IP)

    2005-10-05 15:21:55
    148.   blue22
    144 - Beltran, ManRam (again, love that nickname). Those two are rumored to be swapped for each other though.
    2005-10-05 15:23:19
    149.   Eric Enders
    Beltran or Delgado would be fantastic.
    2005-10-05 15:24:27
    150.   Vishal
    [149] beltran? why would he be any better here than in new york?

    i bet delgado goes to the red sox. just a hunch.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2005-10-05 15:26:09
    151.   Eric Enders
    1. Because this year appears to be an outlier based on the rest of his career, and

    2. He was still pretty darn good in New York, although Shea Stadium disguised that a little bit.

    2005-10-05 15:28:22
    152.   King of the Hobos
    1 out with Bagwell up and the bases least it's tougher than Palmeiro up there. I thought the Braves would pitch a little betetr than this...
    2005-10-05 15:33:39
    153.   Eric Enders
    Beltran this year had 23 win shares, the same amount as Andruw Jones and Johan Santana. This in an off year.

    In addition to the obvious stuff, he has basically every intangible that it's possible to have. He hits for power, he gets on base. He plays Gold Glove CF. He is the best baserunner in MLB, and owns the best stolen base percentage in baseball history. He's "clutch" in the playoffs, if you believe in that sort of thing.

    He's also a Republican, but hey, nobody's perfect.

    2005-10-05 15:33:52
    154.   blue22
    Delgado is 33, has a gimpy knee, and is owed close to $50M for the next 3 years. Yeah, he can mash, but seems like a pretty big risk. Though Drew, Kent, Delgado sounds fun.

    The length of Beltran's contract scares me more than anything else.

    2005-10-05 15:34:32
    155.   Adam M
    144 - Manny is supposedly available, but you're taking your life into your own hands on that one, and nobody will cut you any slack if it doesn't work out.

    Mike Cameron is widely reported as available. He's one of the few players who can please the Saber- crowd and the Cranky Boys: a slick-fielding outfielder and Three True Outcomes hitter who has some pop/. Plus I hear he gets his uniform dirty, and he doesn't have any problems with black people.

    And Newsday was reporting the M's offered Beltre to the Angels a few weeks ago and were rebuffed. If that were true, I would pay to watch Plaschke try and explain it.

    Joel Pineiro may be available, but the M's may ask a steep price because. Like Washburn, his impressive performances hide frightening peripherals.

    2005-10-05 15:36:26
    156.   Eric Enders
    I'm assuming that in Delgado's case Florida would eat part of the salary; otherwise, you're right, it's a big risk. Although one perhaps worth taking. What else are we going to do with the money?
    2005-10-05 15:37:09
    157.   Eric Enders
    Die Braves Die

    This game is fun.

    2005-10-05 15:37:52
    158.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm sure that Beltran's Republican vote is very welcome in New York City. That could swing the next presidential election!
    2005-10-05 15:39:17
    159.   Eric Enders
    Although I seriously doubt any MLB player actually votes.
    2005-10-05 15:42:40
    160.   Bob Timmermann
    According to, Frank & Jamie McCourt have given money to MLB, which apparently has a PAC and also $1000 donations to Ted Kennedy and Joseph Biden.
    2005-10-05 15:44:21
    161.   Jon Weisman
    83. Jon Weisman
    Far too early to know for sure, but will the 2005 playoffs go down as "The Year Without Drama?"
    2005-10-05 15:44:50
    162.   Eric Enders
    Yeah, I've searched those sites too. For those wondering, the McCourts are Democrats, Vinny's a Republican (cue Joe E. Brown again), Palmeiro and A-Rod are Republicans.
    2005-10-05 15:45:16
    163.   Eric Enders
    4 games, 4 laughers. Isringhausen notwithstanding.
    2005-10-05 15:47:02
    164.   Bob Timmermann
    You can't always have a "First Day of the NCAA Tournament" feel to the playoffs.

    Give it time.

    2005-10-05 15:48:12
    165.   Eric Enders
    If this were the first day of the NCAA Tournament, my team would already be out of it.

    Oh, wait. They are.

    2005-10-05 15:49:51
    166.   Eric Enders
    Broadcaster Karros: Bobby Cox "places his players in a position to succeed."
    2005-10-05 15:51:46
    167.   molokai
    "Joel Pineiro may be available, but the M's may ask a steep price because. Like Washburn, his impressive performances hide frightening peripherals. "

    Those impressive performances were two years ago before arm surgery. Not sure what was impressive about him this year. His K/9 rate has totally tanked. He might be someone I'd take a chance on because I really liked him before surgery but I would not give up much to find out.

    Why trade for Cameron when MB is basically better and younger?

    Word is that the the Phillies might eat upto 1/2 of Thome's contract to trade him.

    Who would you rather have Delgado/Thome/Choi based on performance/salary?

    2005-10-05 15:52:42
    168.   Icaros
    Of course the McCourts are Democrats. They're not rich.
    2005-10-05 15:54:12
    169.   Icaros
    Who would you rather have Delgado/Thome/Choi based on performance/salary?

    I'll keep Choi and trade for Abreu instead.

    2005-10-05 15:54:24
    170.   Bob Timmermann
    Listening to the Braves broadcast:

    Skip Caray: "Why does every ex-Dodger become a broadcaster?"
    Joe Simpson: "Probably because we were taught to play the game right."

    Then Skip went and listed a bunch of ex-Dodgers who were broadcasters. They debated about whether or not Charlie Steiner played for the Dodgers. Joe Simpson told him no.

    I think Skip's attitude is summed up by his line (likely borrowed from his dad):
    The bases are loaded again and I wish I was too.

    2005-10-05 15:54:43
    171.   Marty
    It's never said, but putting them in a position to succeed also puts them in a position to fail. It's up to the player. I really dislike Karros.
    2005-10-05 15:54:56
    172.   Eric Enders
    1. Delgado
    2. Choi
    3. Thome

    Choi is obviously a better value, but we need the extra production badly enough to overpay for it, and we also have the resources to do so.

    Call me crazy, but what about signing Frank Thomas to an incentive-laden one-year contract and platooning him with Choi? He's no J.T. Snow at first base, but then neither were Phillips and Saenz.

    2005-10-05 15:56:14
    173.   underdog
    Delayed post re: Macha, but - as he's a Pittsburgh resident, isn't there a chance he may want to be considered along with Tracy for the Pirates job?

    Not that any of this affects the Dodgers any, as I really don't see him wanting to manage LA, but I could be wrong.

    Macha, Collins and, actually, Washington, are the names that don't make me barf.

    2005-10-05 15:58:16
    174.   Bob Timmermann
    "Putting in a position to succeed" is one of those phrases that can mean so many different things. In soccer, coaches will say "We need to go to (road location) and get a result."

    Just "result". They mean to say "win", but they always say "result".

    If they just want a tie, they will say so.

    2005-10-05 15:58:17
    175.   Icaros
    I think this color tandem of Eric Karros and Steve Phillips was chosen specifically to infuriate the Dodger Thoughts collective.
    2005-10-05 15:59:09
    176.   bigcpa
    There should be a healthy market for Bradley- the Cubs, Phillies, Orioles and Yankees come to mind. Throw in Boston if Damon leaves.

    So a Bradley package for Abreu or Manny would be joyous. And McCourt's Red Sox envy could factor in again.

    2005-10-05 16:01:06
    177.   Marty
    Would we survive letting Manny be Manny in Hollywood?
    2005-10-05 16:05:59
    178.   Icaros
    I'd let Manny be Manny in LA. The Dodgers can afford his contract now, so I imagine the Red Sox, who tried to waive him at one time, would let him go for not too much just to be free of his salary. Can't argue with Ramirez, Drew, Kent in the middle of the lineup.

    His defense in left is no worse than Bonds or Klesko, is it?

    2005-10-05 16:06:53
    179.   King of the Hobos
    Well, it's all over in the desert, not nearly as good a game for Dodgers prospects

    Abreu: 2-5, 2B
    Kemp: 1-5, 2Ks (including one with the bases loaded)
    Loney: 0-2 (reached on an error and grounded out after Kemp K'd, came in as PH)

    And Miller/Broxton will not follow in Schmoll's footsteps, as Daigle is closing

    Phoenix is now 2-0

    2005-10-05 16:07:13
    180.   Adam M
    170 - I'll never forget a Braves telecast in the late 80s, back when they stunk. Somebody hit a 3-run homerun in the 9th to win it, the crowd at Fulton County was exploding, and Skip Caray's call was basically, "...and [so-and-so] hits a 3-run homer to win the game...the Braves win...

    ...we now 'Matlock.'"

    And it was impossible to tell which of those two events he was more excited about.

    2005-10-05 16:11:44
    181.   King of the Hobos
    Our waiver position failed to net us the first player to change teams. We should have played worse, to get that coveted #1 spot

    If you were wondering, the Rockies picked up Jaime Cerda off waivers from Kansas City. Huge blow that the Dodgers couldn't get him ;)

    2005-10-05 16:14:04
    182.   Bob Timmermann
    I seem to have an immediate and visceral dislike of Mark Buerhle when I see him pitch? Why is that?
    2005-10-05 16:15:36
    183.   alex 7
    re: 161
    I think the lack of answers is the answer Jon.
    2005-10-05 16:19:49
    184.   LetsGoDodgers

    Choi, simply because he stands the best chance to remain healthy for the entire season, thereby not putting the onerus burden on old man Olmedo again.

    Free agent slugging outfielders are in short supply and the farm system isn't generating anything outside of infielders and pitchers. The more I look at what this roster lacks, what the free agent market offers, and possible players for acquisition via trade, the more I worry. For all the talk about Adam Dunn in Dodger blue next year, there are other teams with cash and prospects to make an equal-or-better offer to the Reds.

    At this point, I'd be happy with a corner outfielder/leadoff hitter known for his high OBP (doesn't necessarily need to steal bases) and a boatload of options for the bullpen.

    2005-10-05 16:21:49
    185.   molokai
    Maybe you don't like quiet quality pitchers who just get the ball and throw it and make it look easy.
    2005-10-05 16:21:56
    186.   Adam M
    167 - Cameron's career OPS is higher than Bradley's and his defense is almost inarguably better - for starters, he gets to at least 10% more balls per inning than Bradley, and keep in mind Cameron spent a significant chunk of his career playing between Randy Winn and Ichiro. But my point was never that it was either/or. Cameron coexisted with Beltran, he can play in the outfield with Milton as well if need be. Cameron's age is a legitimate concern, though.

    178 - Watching Manny field is in a class all its own. He'll usually tiptoe up to the ball, yet it'll still get by him about 20-25% of the time. When he finally does gain control of the ball to throw it back to the infield, it has an uncanny resemblance to a girl trying to throw a banana peel into a dumpster.

    But, man, what a bat.

    2005-10-05 16:24:43
    187.   Bob Timmermann
    Buerhle has that Odalis Perez-like quality of always looking like he's really ticked off about something I think.
    2005-10-05 16:25:42
    188.   Nagman
    One of the most frustrating things about this season (and there were many) is that Choi, to me anyway, is still a question mark. Can he play everyday? We should've learned that this season and now we'll go into spring wondering the same thing all over again.
    2005-10-05 16:26:00
    189.   Blaine
    What do you guys think about the reports of Kent and Gagne griping about the Dodgers and wanting to know what the plans are going into the off season?

    Could it be a good thing that the two highest profile Dodgers are making some noise? Maybe their voices will make some things happen as far as acquiring some legitimate talent to surround the developing youngsters rather than a riff-raff stop-gap like Jose Valentin.

    2005-10-05 16:30:31
    190.   sanchez101
    189. Kent ang Gagne's comments will and should be ignored by the front office
    2005-10-05 16:31:53
    191.   tjshere
    I don't know if this will help or hurt his chances, but it appears Terry Collins picked up the Tracy knack for answering a question with a question. Here's a quote from the Times -

    "I'm honored to have my name involved," Collins said. "I work in a whole different department than the major league team, but are we on the same page? The answer is yes. Our communication is really good."

    2005-10-05 16:31:59
    192.   Eric L
    188 We should have learned something like that right about the time that Drew went down. When Bradley went down, Tracy should have been finding excuses to put Choi in the line-up rather than the opposite.

    Of course, this has been discussed ad naseum here at DT. I shouldn't even have expanded on it really.

    2005-10-05 16:36:43
    193.   Nagman
    192 I agree about the ad nauseum part. It just bothers me that much to bring it up again, I guess.

    Given a choice between two proven guys (thome, delgado) who may or may not be on their last legs, or a guy we don't even know can do the job (despite what the number say). Tough call.

    2005-10-05 16:36:43
    194.   alex 7
    blaine, I know you don't consider JD Drew, Derek Lowe, and Jeff Kent as "stop-gap riff-raffs." Paul will continue to bring in talent, both long-term and stop-gap players, that he feels will improve the team. And he'll continue to hit on about 75% of them.
    2005-10-05 16:37:01
    195.   Icaros
    191 I really don't want Collins now.
    2005-10-05 16:38:13
    196.   Marty
    Collins head nearly exploded when he was managing the Angels.
    2005-10-05 16:38:55
    197.   molokai
    That was the 1st thing I thought of when I read the piece. Made me laugh, maybe he was making fun of JT and only he knew it.

    Hard to find exactly what your looking for. JD Drew would fit the bill but in a quick search of players with an OB% > 380 and who had > 250 at bats almost all of the players are sluggers who would not normally slot in as a lead off player. Jason Michals and Kenny Lofton from the Phillies fit the criteria for high OBP but 2005 could be a fluke season for Michaels and who knows if Lofton can do it again.

    2005-10-05 16:51:56
    198.   alex 7
    As far as getting Dunn, I would doubt many if any teams have a better combination of prospects, money, marketability, and park effects (for HRs at least) than the Dodgers.

    Drew/Bradley/and a platoon of Cruz/Werth should be good enough if we have Ledee as the #4. Was this a one-time leg injury to Ledee that we can assume will be completely healed by next season? Or has he had previous seasons cut short due to leg injuries?

    2005-10-05 16:52:46
    199.   underdog
    What about Konerko? Isn't he a FA after this year?

    Or we could give them Jeff Shaw as compensation! ;-) It wouldn't make up for losing him the first time, but almost would. Still has some upside, in fact, I think he's incredibly underrated.

    2005-10-05 16:57:37
    200.   Telemachos
    3B Aybar
    1B Choi
    RF/CF Drew
    2B Kent
    CF/LF/LF Bradley/Giles/Matsui/Dunn
    LF/RF Cruz, Jr.
    C Navarro
    SS Izturis

    or conversely,

    3B Aybar
    CF/LF/LF Bradley/Giles/Matsui/Dunn
    RF/CF Drew
    2B Kent
    LF/RF Cruz, Jr.
    1B Choi
    C Navarro
    SS Izturis

    Obviously, lineup placement would depend somewhat on who ends up in the outfield... but these strike me as not only a possibility, but perhaps even a strong probability.

    I also think it's a pretty damn solid lineup.

    Now to fix the starting pitching....

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2005-10-05 16:58:53
    201.   LetsGoDodgers

    If we lower the bar a little to OBP > 350, then Matt Lawton and Frank Catalanotto come to mind. I don't want Drew leading off, and I hope I never see Lofton in a Dodger uni. I doubt the Phillies are ready to throw in the towel on Michaels either.

    2005-10-05 17:00:06
    202.   molokai
    His 3 year split from 2002-2004 is not very good away from Comiskey for a guy who wants around 10 million.
    .248 .324 .432
    Bringing that down is his terrible year in 2003 in which his total line was
    .234 .305 .399
    2005-10-05 17:06:34
    203.   LetsGoDodgers

    The Blue Jays come to mind; more free agent money than us and young talent above AA. Both New York teams and the Red Sox also come to mind, especially if Theo Epstein can get someone to take ManRam off his hands.

    2005-10-05 17:08:05
    204.   dzzrtRatt
    189 What do you guys think about the reports of Kent and Gagne griping about the Dodgers...

    I've not seen these reports. Can someone point me to them? I saw Kent's quotes that sort of combined (in a clever, Cal-grad kind of way) trust in DePo with an implicit threat that if DePo doesn't live up to what he trusts him to do, he'll have something to say. I've seen rien from Gagne, other than his Arizona open house offer to Duaner and Sir Edwin.

    I guess any team's stars would be concerned about change. But the change is only half-finished. DePo should underscore that Tracy's gloomy forecast for 2006 was one big reason he was canned. Tracy's flat wrong, just making another alibi, this one in advance. Look at it as motivation, boys.

    2005-10-05 17:10:08
    205.   dzzrtRatt
    Maybe if DePodesta hires Ron Washington, Washington can work on Manny Ramirez' fielding. Who knows--maybe he could convert him into a first baseman.
    2005-10-05 17:12:16
    206.   alex 7
    re: 202 Certainly numbers Choi can put up and probably exceed. Money needs to go to SP, Dunn, and good luck charms.
    2005-10-05 17:16:05
    207.   alex 7
    I didn't think the Yankees had that good of a system. I really doubt Dunn would want to go play in Toronto over Los Angeles if the contracts are similar, though he won't have much of a say, he could threaten to leave after one year reducing what the Blue Jays offer. I agree that the Red Sox would be competition, but as you stated, that's IF they get rid of Manny.

    My point was that, as of right now, I think L.A. has to have as good a shot as anyone, if not the best.

    2005-10-05 17:17:30
    208.   Jon Weisman
    New thread about the managerial search up top.

    Now that I'm done writing it, I see we have another barnburner of a playoff game. But at least it might extend a series to a fourth game.

    2005-10-05 17:18:44
    209.   Joon

    Quote from Gagne:
    "I don't want to be here if we're just going to play kids and rebuild. Yeah, I put my name on a contract, and I respect that. But the Dodgers' logo was on top of that contract - not the Milwaukee Brewers or the (Triple-A) Las Vegas 51s."

    Gagne said some other things that may be worthy of discussion, but I don't want to qoute too much.

    2005-10-05 17:26:20
    210.   LetsGoDodgers
    The Yankees farm system is supremely inferior to the Dodgers farm system, but they have the dollars and the willpower to make almost anything happen. The same can be said for the Red Sox.

    The Mets seem to have "shot the moon" last year in free agency money, but don't underestimate their desire to stick it to the Yankees.

    That is why I consider them players for Adam Dunn, in addition to the Blue Jays.

    The Dodgers indeed have a great shot to land Dunn, but to say they have the best shot is a bit of an overstatement, IMO.

    2005-10-05 17:28:12
    211.   dzzrtRatt
    Jim Tracy, what a guy. Gagne and Kent are panicking about 2006 mostly because of things he's saying publicly, which are probably creampuffs compared to what he said to them privately.

    But one of the ousted manager's parting shots clearly indicated he didn't think the Dodgers will be serious contenders in 2006.

    That said, I suppose Gagne has a point about the bleeping Dodgers, and why they aren't more like the bleeping Yankees. "Just go spend the bleeping money and bring in some bleeping good players" is a tempting way to think.

    2005-10-05 17:28:21
    212.   LetsGoDodgers
    Gagne shouldn't mock at team that finished 10 games better than his did.
    2005-10-05 17:32:24
    213.   DaveP
    Gagne should spend more time getting healthy and contributing towards a successful team in '06, rather than popping off about the direction of the team that signed him to a huge contract to then see him blow his arm out again.
    2005-10-05 17:37:15
    214.   molokai
    212Exactly, and is a good bet to continue to do so. Forget the hunt for a manager, let's try to bring in Mike Maddox as our pitching coach. What he has done with Davis and Capauno has been awesome.

    Gagne will be free soon enough to sign with the Yankee's to replace the aging Riveria.

    2005-10-05 17:39:35
    215.   Jon Weisman
    209 et al - That can't make Jerry Royster, who managed both teams, feel very good.
    2005-10-05 17:41:48
    216.   dzzrtRatt
    213 I think that's exactly what he's doing, and apparently he's gone above and beyond in his efforts to get better, help the other pitchers on the team, and root the team onto success. But he's not a child; he should feel entitled to having some opinion about the team's future. He's been committed to helping the team win as much as anyone I've ever seen in a Dodger uniform. He didn't "blow his arm out" carrying a deer carcass. He was doing what he thought his manager and team wanted him to do, saving ballgames.
    2005-10-05 17:44:52
    217.   blue22
    212 - I think I'm adopting the Brewers as my surrogate team too. I like their front office, and the direction the team is going in with the kids.

    Plus they gave significant playing time to Russell Branyan, which is pretty cool.

    Too bad they're not still in the AL. I need me a team over there.

    2005-10-05 17:54:23
    218.   dzzrtRatt
    Guess it's time to turn the Sox game back on.
    2005-10-05 21:40:17
    219.   Louis in SF
    216 I think the comments by Kent and Gagne although tough to read a this point have one point that can't be overlooked, in two of three years with different GM's and with the team contending the Dodgers could not put together a deal at the deadline which would have made a big difference especially in 2003. WHile 2003 was not DePodesta and McCourt-from a players standpoint they want to win and they couldn't get a player.

    Jon, while you are correct on pure numbers and it seems that Green is definitely on the downside of his carrer. By pure numbers he was overpaid, Dionner seems like a real keeper. However while the cummaltive VORP benefits the Dodgers, had the Dodgers had Drew and Green, their payroll would have been at or near 100million-what McCourt said he would have his payroll at. Green's 22hr's and 73 RBI and 832 OPS cupled with What Drew did-it seems that would have been a potent lineup. While it would have displaced Choi for much of the year, until the injuries set in, I would argue that Green's average numbers but with some pop would have been more valuable this past year.

    2005-10-06 06:03:22
    220.   Vishal
    [217] Too bad they're not still in the AL. I need me a team over there.

    psst! oakland.

    2005-10-06 08:23:55
    221.   blue22
    220 - True, true. I'll like them even better when Daric Barton is up.

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