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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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If You're Throwing Out the Bathwater, I'll Take the Baby
2005-10-11 08:37
by Jon Weisman

Los Angeles at Chicago, 5 p.m.

* * *

It wasn't that long ago that people thought Barry Bonds the lowest of playoff performers. At age 38, Bonds entered the 2002 playoffs with a career postseason record of 19 hits in 97 at-bats (.196), one home run and six RBI in 27 games. Add in his 15 walks, a hit-by pitch, two sacrifice flies, five doubles and a triple, and Bonds had an on-base percentage of .298, a slugging percentage of .299 and an OPS of .597.

Then in those 2002 playoffs, Bonds hit nine home runs in 17 games. In a seven-game World Series, his OPS was 1.994.

If the New York Yankees and their fans want to flea-market 30-year-old Alex Rodriguez, the greatest infielder of my lifetime, because he couldn't bail them out of a game in which they allowed five runs in the first three innings, I'd be happy to take my chances on him.

For that matter, Hideki Matsui, too.

* * *

Former Dodger Bubba Crosby took a lot of grief from broadcaster Tim McCarver on Monday for colliding with another former Dodger, Gary Sheffield, on what turned out to be a series-turning triple by Adam Kennedy. Because the ball was tailing toward right field, McCarver felt it was Sheffield's ball all the way.

It seemed clearly to be an honest collision brought about by the crowd noise that hampered communication, and assigning fault was ridiculous. But if you were going to go that route, perhaps McCarver could have at least considered that every outfield ball is the center fielder's if he calls for it.

* * *

Baseball has umpires who make mistakes, and to blame a loss on a bad call is silly, no matter what the timing is. Anger is one thing; blame is another - and I apply this rule to the Dodgers like any other team. If your margin for victory is so small that an umpire's call blows it for you, it wasn't as if some grand injustice occured.

I did disagree with Joe West's call that prevented Yankee second baseman Robinson Cano from reaching base after a strikeout pitch got away from Angel catcher Bengie Molina. Not only was Cano mere inches from the baseline, but Angel first baseman Darin Erstad had set up on the foul side of first base. Given what Cano could see in front of him, he could only think that by favoring the inside route, his baserunning was above board. It was barely a violation of the letter of the law, and no violation of the spirit.

But again, if you're biggest complaint is that you didn't get to extend an inning on a two-out strikeout, you're not going to get that much sympathy that you were cheated out of a victory.

And in the end, perhaps this is justice for the Yankees' sneaking away with the 1941 World Series. You win by the two-out strikeout, you lose by it.

Photo source: Tank Productions

* * *

Oh yeah, almost forgot - the Pirates hired a new manager.

Comments (264)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-11 09:21:33
1.   Faramond
Ok, but they Yankers aren't really going to trade ARod, are they?

I hate the baserunner out of the lane call. The baserunner is going to take the shortest route to first base, not look down to see where his feet are in the heat of the play. It's the job of the catcher and firstbaseman to get the throw around him.

2005-10-11 09:23:15
2.   Faramond
Looks like Tracy will be working for the Pirates next year.
2005-10-11 09:24:45
3.   Tommy Naccarato
ARod in L.A.?

I highly doubt that, IF we're supposed to take the Yankees for their word for not wanting to ever deal with DePodesta again after the Shawn Green debacle.

2005-10-11 09:25:25
4.   Sushirabbit
I actually turned the sound off this time.
I know alot people don't like Morgan, but to me McCarver is simply unbearable.

I'll take ARod anyday.

2005-10-11 09:27:10
5.   FirstMohican
3 - I think the Yankees said they'd have to think long and hard before dealing with a DePo led front office again. I'd bet that the prospets they'd get for ARod would make them think long and hard...
2005-10-11 09:30:10
6.   Sushirabbit
As a baseball soundtrack, I highly recommend Van Morrion's "Philosopher's Stone", though I am sure some Yankee Fan will come back that Dark Side of the Moon was actually written while the game was in progress.
2005-10-11 09:30:31
7.   Jon Weisman
3 - I doubt it too.

But I wouldn't take the Yankees at their word over the Shawn Green debacle - which was not a debacle at all, by the way, unless you've become a slave to the New York media spin of the situation.

Let me put it this way - forget about A-Rod. If the Yankees ever want something from the Dodgers, you can be sure they'll let bygones be bygones.

2005-10-11 09:32:17
8.   Sushirabbit
If we talk with the Yankees, I bet we get more traction on getting Johnson. Navarro and cash? :-)
2005-10-11 09:32:20
9.   Tommy Naccarato
Blaming ARod for this failure is ludicrist, but I can only imagine what the NY Post and Daily News have on the back of their pages today. (Their sports pages start backwards on the very back page of the paper and read inwards. Shows how screwed-up they are back east!:))

After watching one too many Yankee games the 8 weeks I was back there, they deserve exactly what they got last night.

2005-10-11 09:36:07
10.   dzzrtRatt
1 In a rational universe, of course they wouldn't trade A-Rod. For one thing, they couldn't trade him without picking up part of his salary. And for another, he's a truly great player. In a short series anyone can have a slump, and it shouldn't matter so much on the Yankees when you've got Sheffield, Jeter, Matsui and Giambi to pick you up.

But George Steinbrenner does not live in a rational universe. He has the mentality of an impatient fan. He's not a strategic thinker. He wants to win now, and if this year's team doesn't get the job done, heads will roll! Players who have bad games in the postseason are seen as having serious character flaws that disqualify them from the exalted role of being a Yankee. That's why Jeff Weaver's a Dodger and Javier Vazquez a Snake. That's why, in another era, Steinbrenner tried to dig up dirt on a player he called "Mr. May," Dave Winfield. He wanted to void his contract.

Steinbrenner's control now is similar to the chokehold he had over the Yankees during the '82-'95 championship drought. He refused to allow the team to develop. Every prospect got shuffled off or buried in favor of a marquee name. It was only when the commissioner suspended him for three years that Gene Michael was able to develop the "core" team of Jeter-Williams-Pettite-Rivera along with getting valuable pieces like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius to bring the Yankees to a point where one or two big free agents were all they needed to add to this talented core. Since 2001, they've gotten away from that strategy, and reach first for big free agents and blockbuster trades, especially to obtain players who have a history of beating them, like Randy Johnson and Jason Giambi.

Steinbrenner's going to retire soon, and I'm sure the Yankee brass can't wait. He'll be on the sidelines, but they'll still have $200 million. An intelligently-run Yankee franchise is a scary prospect.

2005-10-11 09:39:26
11.   Improbable88
It's always a bummer to see a call needlessly reversed. Only Angels' fans,I'm sure, were happy about that call. I wanted to see the game closer than it was, and it could have provided Bernie Williams with some tangible closure, happy or not. Bases Loaded in the playoffs is always fun. Shame on Joe West!

Would DEPO pay A-Rod money for any player? Hell, any two players??

2005-10-11 09:41:46
12.   Tommy Naccarato
7 Agreed. The spin of those sports pages probably did incite a lot of that particular comment. It's as almost as if your reading the World News stating martians have landed in Bronx and have abducted George Steinbrenner.

But I have an old theory--"never trust a Yankee...." Now mind you that sounds like a typical rebel comment or slur draped in a confederate flag, but honestly, its from years a and years of hating THE Yankees! :)

2005-10-11 09:44:30
13.   Tommy Naccarato
Going back and reading Jon's thing more closely, I'd rather have Hideki Matsui.
2005-10-11 09:48:26
14.   Improbable88
Reporters for newspapers are, by and large these days, idiots. I'm sure the Yankees would love to tap into the Dodgers vaunted minor leagues...and honestly, we have enough room to let them...for the right price.
2005-10-11 09:49:26
15.   Improbable88
Could the Dodgers and Yankees more or less swap outfielders? Bradley for Matsui?
2005-10-11 09:49:29
16.   Telemachos
As long as we're in fantasy-land, I'd take A-Rod over Matsui easily... though I'd want a chunk of his contract paid too. (I'd be willing to give A-Rod $15 million/year, but not more).

With Cashman potentially leaving the Yankees (the rumor I heard this morning had him heading to the Phillies), their new GM might view DePo differently than Cashman did.

And does anyone care about poor Tracy, heading to a franchise with no chance to win in that division anytime soon? Of course, expectations will be so low that a .500 season would be considered a big accomplishment.

2005-10-11 09:51:35
17.   Jon Weisman
16 - the operative words in my post above are "flea-market." I don't expect the Dodgers to be going after A-Rod at retail.

No one demands anything of Jim Tracy anymore - that's the beauty of being Jim Tracy.

2005-10-11 09:52:26
18.   Jon Weisman
17 - Let me be even more clear - I don't expect A-Rod to be heading to the Dodgers, period. My point is about not making too big a deal about individual postseason failures.
2005-10-11 09:59:57
19.   Telemachos
17, 18 - True... it's easy to forget that the Yankees wouldn't have made it to the post-season without A-Rod's stellar regular season play. But it's also true that the entire heart of the Yankee lineup came up startlingly short. Perhaps, as my Yankee fan co-worker said this morning, they were too worn out from the huge push they made through the last final weeks of the season and it finally caught up to them. I'm not sure if I buy that or not, but A-Rod, Sheff, and Matsui had plenty of chances to pull the Yanks through and couldn't do it.
2005-10-11 10:02:29
20.   SMY
16 -- In Buster Olney's ESPN chat recently (yesterday, I think) he mentioned Tracy going to the Pirates, and went on to say it's a great fit and that the Pirates are "entering their window of opportunity in 2006 and 2007". Opportunity for what, I don't really know. I thought that was a really strange answer, especially given that they play in a division with the Cardinals, Cubs, Astros, and Brewers. Maybe their opportunity to beat the Reds?
2005-10-11 10:16:06
21.   Icaros
Over at you can participate in a poll asking the question, "Will Jim Tracy lead the Pirates to the playoffs at some point?"

So far, No is ahead at 56.1%

Sanity prevails!

2005-10-11 10:19:04
22.   regfairfield
21 44% of the people think Jason Bay and eight other guys can make the playoffs?
2005-10-11 10:20:15
23.   Adam M
20 - Tracy's career arc is tracking Lou Piniella's with about a 4-year lag: leading a team to somewhat below its ceiling, exhibiting a lot of questionable hunch-playing and bizarre favoritism, missing the playoffs after a big run, and blaming the front-office before leaving town in a huff and signing on with a rebuilding low-budget team in a division they have no hope of ever winning, with most local media/fans thinking you'll right that ship in no time and make your old team sorry you ever thought about leaving. By 2007, Tracy will be complaining about not having the right tools and accepting a buyout so he can bide his time until the Reds job opens up again. In Seattle, there are still people who think that all they need to right the ship is to get Sweet Lou back.
2005-10-11 10:24:20
24.   Mark
Considering how well the predictions of the DT readers have been so far, I'd say we're likely to see the Pirates win the NLCS next year. Once again I think Arte Moreno is laughing at us.
2005-10-11 10:27:18
25.   Jon Weisman
24 - What does Arte Moreno have to do with this? If you think there's been some widespread belief here that the Angels would not do well this year, you're mistaken.
2005-10-11 10:29:35
26.   Icaros
Maybe Arte Moreno secretly bought the Pirates and is laughing at us for stealing the Greatest Manager in the World.
2005-10-11 10:30:13
27.   regfairfield
24 My regular season predictions were actually rather spot on, they would have been far better if the Cubs were actually, you know, good.
2005-10-11 10:33:28
28.   Sam DC
This offseason should be fascinating (or maybe agonizing). Yanks and Red Sox both have substantial holes. Orioles desperately need to do something to right the ship and fight back the Nats. Nationals should have $15 million to spend, once they get an owner. Phillies are rending their clothing, itching for another shot. Dodgers, who know -- Rob says on 6-4-2 they might be best off trading Kent and Gagne! A lot of great storylines, and yet not a heck of a lot of free agent muscle out there.

One wonders if, sort of like the trading deadline this past year, despite all the hype, not too much goes down.

2005-10-11 10:34:32
29.   FirstMohican
21 - I don't find it encouraging that 56% of people who voted can recognize the obvious.
2005-10-11 10:35:35
30.   Sam DC
27 See Weisman, J. (sub Pirates).
2005-10-11 10:35:59
31.   Linkmeister
Re: postseason slumps

Ted Williams was 5 for 25 in the only WS he ever played in (1946).

2005-10-11 10:37:51
32.   Telemachos
The Pirates have Jason Bay, Craig Wilson, Zach Duke and Oliver Perez, right? I can't think of other potential solid players for them.

Seems to me that of the scrappy no-name teams, the Brewers are already ahead of the Pirates by a year or two in terms of developing their young players into a solid nucleus with the potential to challenge for the division a year or two down the road.

So we're not even talking about the Pirates having to get by one team. We're talking about them having to get past FOUR. Even if someone like the Cubs crashes and burns, there are three more teams to get past.

Kinda like the Rockies this year. They have some potential with their young guys, but even with the rest of the division having an off-year, they still finished last.

2005-10-11 10:39:50
33.   Icaros
29 You have to take what you can get these days.
2005-10-11 10:42:18
34.   regfairfield
32 They have Brad Eldred, but he'll never touch a bat again, same with Craig Wilson.

After Oliver Perez's "you didn't give me a raise, so I'm not going to work out in the offseason at all" debacle, I don't know if he can be considered good.

2005-10-11 10:43:06
35.   Steve
86% wanted to keep Alex Cora.
2005-10-11 10:45:23
36.   Adam M
32 - Tracy's best move is putting himself in a position where finishing fourth is victory, not defeat. According to Scott Miller, this is defined as "climbing the charts with a bullet."

Reunited with Daryle Ward, and it feels so good!

2005-10-11 10:46:10
37.   Icaros
What percentage of readers believe in the Tooth Fairy?
2005-10-11 10:48:23
38.   Icaros
Pirates get: Giovanni Carrara, Jason Repko, Mike Edwards, Jason Phillips

Dodgers get: Craig Wilson, Brad Eldred

2005-10-11 10:55:13
39.   FirstMohican
33 - Isn't that how we ended up keeping Odalis Perez?

28 - Trade Kent & Gagne? What happened to rebuilding and contending? There's no way in hell that we're not a healthy 05 roster away from a clear NL West victory, or a relatively healthy 06 w/ a few very attainable players away from NL West Favs...

2005-10-11 10:58:40
40.   Sam DC
FirsMohican -- just so we're clear, I'm not advocating trading those guys, just passing on that other smart people are advocating that.

Re my 28, just read in a Wash Post chat with columnist Les Carpenter that "Already it looks like Boston is going to rebuild next season and Steinbrenner may soon back far away from the Yankees." No background on these observations, however.

avail at, look for the Carpenter/Sheinin chat.

2005-10-11 11:01:23
41.   dzzrtRatt
Also, trading Eric Gagne before anyone can see with their own two eyes that he's recovered seems like selling low, not high.

I love having Gagne on the team, and would not enjoy seeing him leave or trading him. But if the Dodgers are 12 games out in July, and Gagne's clearly not going to re-sign, but he has 20 saves and looks sharp as ever--that's when to trade him. Not now.

2005-10-11 11:01:25
42.   FirstMohican
40 - I wasn't saying that you were, I was responding to your smart person's suggestion.
2005-10-11 11:12:55
43.   blue22
40 - I'd like to see how these teams go about "rebuilding".

Boston looks to be in better shape than the Yanks, but Varitek, Schilling, and Renteria are untradeable, ManRam can go but they're taking back something equally as ugly (yet less productive) in Beltran, and you figure Ortiz is due for a significant raise and extension, especially if soulmate Manny is traded.

2005-10-11 11:13:47
44.   GoBears
38 Like your thinking there, Icaros.

But I wouldn't actually discount the possibility that Tracy changes his spots a smidge, for two reasons. First, he's on a team now that everyone knows is young and lousy, so there's no illusion for the manager or the press about contending. For better or worse, that illusion dogged the Dodgers all season. So he might play the young guys and give them rope he wouldn't give Choi or Perez.

Second, he might have learned something. Perhaps he was too stubborn to admit a mistake in LA, and change his ways here, but with a new team and a fresh start, he might avoid repeating the same mistakes. I was never clear with JT whether he really believed he never made mistakes or whether he was just too proud to admit to them and change his ways.

All of which is to say, it wouldn't shock me if Littlefield said, "we'll hire you, but you have to promise to give Wilson and Eldred an extended chance to play every day." Which would imply that they won't be available.

Still, I like Icaros's fantasy better...

2005-10-11 11:16:14
45.   underdog
15. "Could the Dodgers and Yankees more or less swap outfielders? Bradley for Matsui?"

Yikes. I can't imagine Bradley in NY; he'd implode. They'd have to come up with a new color alert system just for the possibilities there. He thought the LA press and fans were tough...

And isn't Matsui a free agent anyway? I wouldn't mind signing him (but not for a long term deal) as insurance for another Bradley implosion or Drew injury.

2005-10-11 11:18:32
46.   GoBears
ESPN has a story with A-Rod taking the blame for the Yankees series loss.

"I've got to take a long look in the mirror because I didn't do my part. I mean, you win and lose as a team, but I didn't show up."

The rest of the story is about how his star teammates also stunk up the joint.

So the mea culpa will mollify fans and scribes and A-Rod won't be made the scapegoat. Especially not after he wins the MVP.

2005-10-11 11:22:06
47.   Icaros
44 I was actually thinking the same thing today about Tracy changing his spots in Pittsburgh.

I was hoping with my trade proposal, though, that Tracy would find extra value in taking four players from the same team, since, as we know, it is familiarity that truly breeds winning.

2005-10-11 11:24:35
48.   Steve
Familiarity breeds diseases
2005-10-11 11:28:01
49.   Jon Weisman
44, 47 - If clones of Hee-Seop Choi and Antonio Perez appeared in Pittsburgh in 2006, each with a new first name of Jason, I don't see any reason to think Tracy would be any more inclined to play them.

Tracy has an image (right or wrong) of what a fundamentally sound ballplayer looks like, and neither player fits the bill. It has never been about age - he'll play someone at any age if that guy looks right to him.

If you left a workplace after disagreeing with your boss, and got hired by a rival company a week later, would you change your approach?

2005-10-11 11:40:10
50.   Icaros
49 Of course what you're saying makes the most sense, Jon. I'm just looking at it from a more cynical view that Tracy would become the manager we always wanted after he goes elsewhere.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-11 11:42:49
51.   DXMachina
46 So the mea culpa will mollify fans and scribes and A-Rod won't be made the scapegoat. Especially not after he wins the MVP.

I was listening to WFAN at lunch, and the Yankee fans don't sound very mollified. Which is fine. If they want to run him out of town, I'd be happy buy him a plane ticket to LAX.

2005-10-11 11:48:15
52.   Adam M
51 - "I was listening to WFAN at lunch" Are you bulimic?

If Yankee fans think A-Rod is the problem, they are bonkers. From Day One, everybody knew starting pitching was the Yankees weakness and Johnson, Pavano and Wright were supposed to be the answer. Meanwhile, Clemens, Pettite and El Duque are still playing in the postseason for other teams. Has noone in New York noticed this?

2005-10-11 11:56:17
53.   Bob Timmermann
My Yankees fan friend is terrified that the Astros will make it to the World Series because that means there will be an NL pennant winner that has made it to the World Series and NOT played the Yankees.

This bothers him a lot.

Selfishly, I would like to see a St. Louis-LAoA World Series so I could get a chance to visit with my brother, but there's still much to be decided in the coming week.

However, a St. Louis-Chicago World Series would be pretty heated. I wonder if the South Siders would dislike the Cardinals as much as the North Siders do. The people of the Mound City would have to go into some serious civic pride building to get over their inferiority complex regarding the Windy City.

A Houston-Angels Series would be a tribute to areas with overbuilt urban and suburbabn sprawl combined with lots of freeways.

2005-10-11 12:01:08
54.   DXMachina
52 Are you bulimic?

Not hardly...

I'd like to see a ChiSox-Astros series. My mother grew up on the South Side, and my grandfather was a life long fan of the Sox.

2005-10-11 12:01:44
55.   GoBears
49 I also think this is the most likely scenario. JT is as JT does. But his unwillingness to admit mistakes (even those that were obvious to his apologists) made me wonder if perhaps pride got in the way of adaptability. That he's not as dumb or as set in his ways as he appeared, and could only change a bit if given a clean slate.

And yeah, he did get a new job quickly, and probably with a raise, but he still essentially got fired, and Pittsburgh ain't LA. If I were him, I'd be at least a little introspective about what I did wrong. Maybe not out loud.

I think Jon's is the most likely answer. But I guess I just wouldn't be shocked if, 8-9 months from now, DT readers are wondering "why the heck didn't he give Choi the chances he's giving Eldred?"

2005-10-11 12:05:29
56.   fanerman
Can someone verify for me that only 2 teams have gone longer than the giants since their last world series, the Cubs and White Sox? (ie, other teams that have come into existence after 1954 wouldn't make the count).

If that's true (as I've heard), then my internal debate is having only 1 team go longer than the giants versus having to deal with all the Scott-Podsednik-is-the-best-player-in-baseball and Ozzie-Guillen-is-the-smart-ball-king media frenzy.

2005-10-11 12:07:13
57.   dzzrtRatt
I foresee that next Spring, when ESPN pundits and baseball writers are asked to choose "Who will be the surprise team of 2006?" many will pick the Pirates and cite the astute hiring of poor unappreciated Jim Tracy as the reason the team will succeed.
2005-10-11 12:07:47
58.   regfairfield
56 The Indians last won in '48.
2005-10-11 12:08:56
59.   fanerman
58 - You're right. I'm not going ga-ga over any of the playoff teams left then. Hmmm...
2005-10-11 12:19:04
60.   dzzrtRatt
56 If you mean, "since winning their last world series," you've left out the Cleveland Indians, whose last world championship was in 1948. They appeared in the Series and lost in '54, '95 and '97. The Giants' last Championship was in 1954, in which they beat the Indians. Since then, the Giants were in the Series in '62, '89, and '02, losing each time.

The White Sox played the Dodgers in the World Series in 1959, and lost. But the last time they won a World Series was two years year before the Black Sox scandal, 1918. If they make it this year, it will be only their second series since the scandal. The Cubs' drought is the longest for winning the series, going back to 1908. They also have a pretty long drought since appearing in one, going back to 1945, when they lost to Detroit.

2005-10-11 12:22:30
61.   Bob Timmermann
We live in a strange world when of the four teams left in the LCS, the Angels are the team that has most recently won the World Series.
2005-10-11 12:27:36
62.   dzzrtRatt
Never won a World Series:

San Francisco Giants (as distinguished from NY; not really fair but usable in a bar fight)

Texas Rangers (nor did they in their incarnation as the Washington Senators, born in 1961; at 44 years, the third-longest nonappearance streak after the Cubs and White Sox)

Houston Astros (never appeared in one in its entire 43 year history, but could break that in '05)

San Diego Padres

Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals (never appeared in one since 1969 inception; fifth longest nonappearance streak)

Seattle Mariners

Colorado Rockies

Tampa Bay Devil Rays (kinda goes without saying)

2005-10-11 12:37:23
63.   Bob Timmermann
I must have been asleep that year when the Milwaukee Brewers won the World Series. ;-)
2005-10-11 12:39:24
64.   Icaros
63 It was a boring year.
2005-10-11 12:43:00
65.   LAT
Are the details of JT contract out yet. How many years and how much $$$?
2005-10-11 12:44:44
66.   Icaros
65 We're pretty sure it's more than Mayor McCheap was paying him.
2005-10-11 12:48:11
67.   Telemachos
65 It's a 3 year contract. I don't think the actual $$ value has been announced yet.
2005-10-11 13:00:13
68.   dzzrtRatt
63 Yep. I knew I'd have a brain cramp and leave at least one team out. Harvey's Wallbangers were in the '82 series (having crushed Gene Mauch's hopes in the ALCS), but lost to St. Louis.

Maybe the Joe Morgan/Terry Forster debacle caused a blackout for the part of my memory devoted to baseball in 1982.

2005-10-11 13:04:53
69.   LAT
This must be what Grandma meant when she said "blessing in disguise."

JT gets fired: Do not pass Go but collect $700K.

Jt gets hired: 3 yrs, presumably more than Mayor MCCheap was paying him (I'll guess $850) and now mananges a team where a winning season will look like the World Series. Of course, he has to live in Pitt.

So Jim stands to make approx $1.5M this year. Far more than he has ever made and now has far less pressure on him. Now that's makin lemonade out of being drummed out of town.

2005-10-11 13:07:07
70.   natepurcell
whats everyones opinion on a zito trade this offseason?

I am pretty sure beane will be looking to trade zito, he is in the last yr of his contracrt and will be priced out of the A's $ range next offseason.

zitos a reliable pitcher, gives 200+ quality innings every year, and is still very young at 26/27 where he would be a low risk to give a long term deal too.

he is also from socal and went to USC. I would think zito would be a safe bet to put up a sub 3.5 era in the NL, especially in dodger stadium.

we could give him a derek lowe contract type contract and i dont think it would be over paying.

and we could trade odalis as well.

2005-10-11 13:08:30
71.   FirstMohican
69 - The Dodgers reportedly do not have to pay the 700 if he has a job in 06.
2005-10-11 13:08:42
72.   Improbable88
I thought we didn't owe him anything if he got a job elsewhere??

That's Olmedo Saenz' money!!

2005-10-11 13:10:17
73.   Improbable88
Pro Zito

I'd like to see if Odalis can bounce back from last year before we try and dump him..w/o Weaver we'll really need him to step up.

2005-10-11 13:11:40
74.   FirstMohican
70 - I'm down if its a trade + extend and it drops Odalis in Oakland. Odalis in Oakland... what a ring.

I'll give it a stab - Odalis (the A's'll want cash), APerez, + a couple pitching prospects? I've said in the past that if I were a GM i'd never deal with Beane as he seemingly always ends up on the better end of deals.

2005-10-11 13:12:43
75.   FirstMohican
73 - I think the more Odalis is in the dark about how much he is needed to step up, the better of the Dodgers are. Think 04...
2005-10-11 13:14:12
76.   Improbable88
75 - When I think 2004 I think 12 ER in two playoff games
2005-10-11 13:14:23
77.   natepurcell
i was actually thinking of not involving odalis in the deal. Trade some prospects, maybe make it a 3 way trade.

then in a separate deal, trade odalis. to the Nats, boston or yankees maybe.

2005-10-11 13:16:14
78.   Improbable88
What do we want from the Nationals?
2005-10-11 13:16:49
79.   fanerman
I wouldn't mind getting Zito, but I wonder what we'd have to give up to get him... 2 GMs with the same philosophy.
2005-10-11 13:17:26
80.   Improbable88
except for Chad Cordero's return to Chino...

...but that won't happen. He was a 20+ win difference maker for them last year.

2005-10-11 13:17:28
81.   trainwreck
There is absolutely no way Beane would want Odalis. Nate is right we would have to trade him to someone dumb like Bowden.
2005-10-11 13:18:04
82.   natepurcell
What do we want from the Nationals?

wilkerson! although that might not be a fair deal.

2005-10-11 13:18:57
83.   Improbable88
Where does Wilkerson play? What did he do last year?
2005-10-11 13:19:35
84.   FirstMohican
75 - Exactly what I was getting at...

77 -

This may sound funny, but I bet there are some teams with interest in Odalis considering any team aquiring him would be buying REALLY low. However, considering his postseason performance and the Yankees' distaste for performances like it, I would be skeptical about their interest.

I do remember Odalis asking to pitch in Boston during interleague two years ago mentioning something like it may be a team he pitches for in the future. So I suppose that's a possibility.

2005-10-11 13:20:43
85.   natepurcell
Where does Wilkerson play? What did he do last year?

wilkerson plays any of the 3 outfield spots.

2005-10-11 13:21:44
86.   natepurcell
how about we let beane and depo do their speciality- 3 way trade time.

A's trade: Barry Zito, Juan Cruz
Dodgers trade: Justin Orenduff, Chuck Tiffany, Delwyn Young
D-Rays trade: Aubrey Huff

A's get: Aubrey Huff, Justin Orenduff
Dodgers get: Barry Zito
D-Rays get: Chuck Tiffany, Juan Cruz, Delwyn Young

2005-10-11 13:22:54
87.   fanerman
Maybe we give up Bradley for Zito... if his stay in LA really is over.
2005-10-11 13:24:51
88.   Vishal
i would love to get zito. zito is my favorite starting pitcher.

(dontrelle is a close second, though)

2005-10-11 13:24:59
89.   natepurcell
i would like to keep bradley. Although i would like to keep cruz and ledee as outfield depth for the eventual mid season injuries of bradley and drew.
2005-10-11 13:26:42
90.   Bob Timmermann
Penny and Zito in the same clubhouse!
The results would not be charming.
2005-10-11 13:27:40
91.   fanerman
I'd rather keep Bradley as well and sign another OF (ie, Giles). 2 out of Werth, Ledee, and Cruz should be adequate back up for the inevitable injuries.
2005-10-11 13:27:40
92.   Vishal
i want to keep bradley too, but if we do decide we have to trade him, sending him to oakland for zito would be probably the best possible thing to do.
2005-10-11 13:27:43
93.   natepurcell
so its settled. The majority of the DT congression agrees.

now we just need to inform depo and beane somehow.....

2005-10-11 13:29:28
94.   das411
86 - Nate, keep in mind that the new ownership in Tampa just might be willing to take on some payroll in order to pile up arms like those.

That said, they very nearly landed Milledge and Petit from the Mets this summer for Baez and Huff, so they may need to throw one of their several CFers (Rocco?) into that deal.

2005-10-11 13:33:47
95.   das411
93 - Ooh! But Stu Sternberg does apparently read Rays blogs:

"Sternberg encouraged open dialogue between the Rays and its fans, including Internet "bloggers," which he said he reads regularly"

2005-10-11 13:35:27
96.   FirstMohican
Another vote for Giles here. Toss in a Dunn to go with Brian and Barry and call it an offseason.
2005-10-11 13:35:52
97.   fanerman
Bradley as the centerpiece for Zito seems fair for both sides. I don't think DePo and Beane would be likely to fleece each other. Aside from being old friends, they value players similarly. If they make a trade, it'd be to help each other out. The situations involving Bradley and Zito may allow them to do that.

Though of course, keeping Bradley would be nice, too.

2005-10-11 13:35:58
98.   natepurcell
Penny and Zito in the same clubhouse!

they can gossip on their escapades with alyssa milano. Maybe give some pointers to each other. Maybe that bond of milano will allow penny and zito to form a great friendship and when penny emerges as our ace along with zito, we will have two horses on top of the rotation set for the next 4 years.

along with cbillz, miller and jackson.

wow, i need to stop dreaming.

2005-10-11 13:36:17
99.   fanerman
96 - Don't forget Alex. Hah.
2005-10-11 13:44:30
100.   Jacob L
95 There are Rays fans? There are Rays blogs?? Lets try someting -

I get nothing.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-11 13:45:25
101.   Jacob L
101 Of course, it could just be the extra "w"

Nope. Still nothing.

2005-10-11 13:49:30
102.   King of the Hobos
Rockies stole Jaime Cerda before the Dodgers could get him on waivers, and now they've claimed Miguel Ojeda. Dodger fans weep...

Leyland has started to assemble what Rotoworld calls "the most Piraterrific coaching staff ever." McClendon's their new bullpen coach... Then Gene Lamont is third base coach, Don Slaught hitting coach and Andy Van Slyke first base, outfield and baserunning coach

2005-10-11 13:53:45
103.   das411
101 - I actually like but they link to some other ones there.

I suspect the free parking may help increase the fan base next year though. That and Delmon.

2005-10-11 13:55:22
104.   Bob Timmermann
I think the leading Devil Rays blog is called Waechter's World.

The Devil Rays are reportedly interviewing Bobby Valentine for their managerial job. Of course, Valentine already has a job and his team, the Chiba Lotte Marines is in the Pacific League championship series against the Fukuoaka Softbank Hawks. The winner takes on the Hanshin Tigers.

One of these days. The other league is still finishing up its regular season.

2005-10-11 13:55:43
105.   King of the Hobos
Here you go:

2005-10-11 13:56:14
106.   King of the Hobos
103 Ugh, Beat me to it...
2005-10-11 13:59:16
107.   das411
Heh. Hobos, are you actually Patrick Kennedy by any chance?
2005-10-11 14:04:05
108.   blue22
Hmm, Milton for Zito? JtD as a centerpiece in a trade for Adam Dunn?



Bullpen with the usual suspects. LaRoche, Martin, Broxton, Billingsley, et al waiting in the wings.

That's a roster with some intrigue to it...

2005-10-11 14:04:28
109.   GoBears
I'm not a Zito fan. I'd be willing to take him over Odalis for a short period, until the farm produces, but I don't think Zito is that good. He had a good year this year, and a very good one (albeit more in W-L than in ERA) a few years ago, but he's nothing special as far as I can tell.

And Vishal, how can a u$c trojan be your favorite? Go look yourself in the mirror and sing "Big C" and "Sons of California" 10 times for penance.

2005-10-11 14:04:29
110.   Borchard504
{97} Keeping Bradley would be great if you ask me. I absolutely would like to have him back. Jeff Kent might not.

Hey - Is Depo's search limited to the announced five candidates? Or is there someone else under the radar, that might surprise?

2005-10-11 14:06:23
111.   GoBears
For those of you suffering through playoff baseball on TV, here's some company for your misery (though I'm starting to think that Joe Buck is even worse).

it's for

2005-10-11 14:06:52
112.   King of the Hobos
110 He has a secondary list that is "deep and strong"

107 Nope

2005-10-11 14:10:56
113.   Goozmani
First post here guys.

I send out my best regards to you all.

Nate, would the A's want to trade for Huff knowing they wont be able to re-sign him?

Also, what happens with Billingsly next season? Assumming Paul is a little hesitant about rushing his best pitching prospect.

2005-10-11 14:12:00
114.   sanchez101
70. I doubt zito gets traded to the dodgers; it seemed that the reason hudson didnt get traded to the dodgers is that beane isnt going to fleece is former assistant. Any deal would necessitate a third partner, and it would take a ballsy individual bother getting involved with those two. I do like the idea though, weavers main asset is his durability, and so is zito's, so it makes a lot of sense to replace weaver with zito.
2005-10-11 14:14:03
115.   sanchez101
113. Baseball America said recently that Billinglsey may get sent back to AA next year to avoid Las Vegas. If Vegas is so damaging to young pitchers that you avoid sending your pitching prospects there, isnt it time to change affiliates? I would like to see them move their AAA team to the international league.
2005-10-11 14:15:51
116.   sanchez101
110. I have no problem bring back bradley either, but i bet the decision to bring him back will depend on (1) what his value is on the trading market and (2) what the incoming manager's opionion is.
2005-10-11 14:17:07
117.   Vishal
[109] hahah, what is that, golden bear guilt? does that mean my favorite pitcher has to be ryan drese? :)

anyway, my dad went to 'SC. i can't totally hate on them. really i only root against them when they're playing cal. plus, zito has the prettiest curveball i've ever seen. and i like the A's.

2005-10-11 14:19:36
118.   FirstMohican
116 - I would be way more into coaching the Dodgers if I didn't have to worry about Bradley. Then again, I doubt anyone on the Dodgers' list would turn down the offer even if there was a roster of 9 Milton Bradleys.
2005-10-11 14:20:35
119.   Jon Weisman
115 - My hunch for Billingsley is that if he can be halfway decent in Spring Training, he'll start in Los Angeles. Just a hunch.

I do think we want to keep our AAA team on the West Coast.

2005-10-11 14:21:19
120.   King of the Hobos
115 I doubt the contract will be renewed. However, I think there's another year on it, so another year in Vegas. Anyone know?
2005-10-11 14:22:45
121.   GoBears
115 If Vegas is so damaging to young pitchers that you avoid sending your pitching prospects there, isnt it time to change affiliates? I would like to see them move their AAA team to the international league.

Makes sense. But MLB teams like to have their AAA affiliates close by, for quick call-ups. Vegas is now the only Dodger farm team anywhere near LA, with AA moving from San Antonio (OK, not that close either) to Jax. But I have the same feeling about Vegas as sanchez101, and the same that I had about Albuquerque. Any suggestions about AAA options that would be close, but not distorted due to elevation/league/climate?

2005-10-11 14:23:22
122.   Jacob L
118 So, FM, does that mean you're a candidate? How'd the interview go.
2005-10-11 14:23:30
123.   Vishal
it would be awesome if the dodgers had their AAA club in say, long beach or santa barbara.
2005-10-11 14:27:48
124.   Adam M
Slate just put up an article on "How a team from Anaheim stole the Dodgers' home turf:"

Mostly, it's the kind of boilerplate you're familiar with. I've emailed the author Kevin Arnovitz a few times and can confirm he's an embittered Dodger fan who lives in LA, though he's not just a Depo-hater, his issues with the Dodger go back further than that.

The money grafs are at the end:

"The Angels and Dodgers won division titles in the same year for the first time in 2004. But Moreno's decision this past off-season to dub his team "The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" really showed how far the rivalry has come. The name change was a topic of discussion for only about five minutes in Los Angeles, but it's significant insofar as it represents the franchise's eagerness to rejoin the civic conversation. Ten years ago, an Angels billboard on Sunset Boulevard would have been laughable. Now there are signs all over Hollywood, West Los Angeles, and the Eastside—there's even one less than a mile from Dodger Stadium.

Moreno's marketing incursion north of the Orange County border has taken root particularly in the Latino households that have been a Dodgers stronghold dating back to Fernandomania. And by all press accounts, the Angels have virtually erased the Dodgers' historic advantage in the local television war. This year, the Angels averaged a 2.8 rating for their 49-game, over-the-air package on KCAL; the Dodgers scored a meager 2.1 rating for their 25 games on the local UPN affiliate.

David Eckstein has moved on to St. Louis, and the improbable 2002 team has been replaced by a club with the fourth-highest payroll in baseball. No matter how many Molina brothers are on the roster, the 2005 team will be hard-pressed to recapture the mania that surrounded the 2002 World Series champs. When the city's forgotten National League team eventually finds its way, Moreno's marketing and Erstad's grit might not be enough to keep Angelenos from their congenital predisposition toward Dodger Blue. But even for beleaguered Dodger fans, this Angels ascendancy is all good news. At least Southern California is once again a hot stove for baseball."

There's a ton of things in there that don't make sense factually or as part of a reasoned argument ("congenital disposition"?), but I'll keep it short:

1) LAAofA is still rightly the butt of jokes, and the argument that the rivalry exists because Moreno picked the name and bought a few billboards is weak. If the Angels went in the tank this year, or even if they lost the AL West to the A's, Moreno would be mocked for his $120M payroll and billboards (shades of the Oregon football program)--well, and for cultivating a look like Johnny Carson's Art Fern character, but that's another story.

2) The point about TV ratings is stronger, but who wouldn't blame fans for wanting to see a winning team versus one that's stunk up the joint? The question is whether those fans are just bandwagoneers who want to watch a winner, or whether they'll stay with the Angels long-term. A good question would be what Dodger & Angel TV ratings were like over the last 2-3 years. 2.1 for a losing team is a pretty solid base, 2.8 for a playoff contender. The difference in ratings across years would show how many Dodger watchers defected to the Halos, and how solid the Angel fanbase is. The ratings also don't reflect the fact that there's no Orange County/LA County TV market, it's all the same batch of eyeballs, and the ratings don't break that down. This point doesn't get investigated.

2005-10-11 14:27:55
125.   Jacob L
I understand the reasoning (no need for 2 high A clubs, and Vero is a given), but I do miss the Dodgers having a team in the California League. Allowed me the opportunity to see F.P. Santangelo play on a rehab assignment in San Berdoo.

I recall that Hershiser had a notable rehab gig there that same season. He failed to strike out the beer batter in 3 attempts.

2005-10-11 14:30:51
126.   blue22
and for cultivating a look like Johnny Carson's Art Fern character

Oh no you didn't! LOL.

2005-10-11 14:31:50
127.   trainwreck
Yeah I like that trade. Zito is proven and will eat a ton of innings, never gets hurt which is huge for our team, and I think he can be way better in the NL (of course he is about the worst looking hitter I have ever seen). Juan Cruz has tons of potential. In the minors especially when he was in AAA Sacramento he was absolutely dominant. He would be a better 5th starter than Houlton for us and he also has the ability to be a really good reliever. He just needs a good pitching coach to fix him when he gets out of whack at times.
2005-10-11 14:32:32
128.   Borchard504
Sitting here wondering (& amused), if Jeff Kent is the least popular Dodger since Gary Sheffield.
2005-10-11 14:33:56
129.   Curtis Lowe
2005-10-11 14:36:50
130.   trainwreck
The A's traded Hudson to Atlanta because that was the only place he wanted to go to and threatened to sit or refuse to sign an extension with any other team. He told this to Michael Urban who wrote a book on the Big Three and is close to the A's organization. That is why we did not get Hudson and the fact that DePo knew Hudson was going to breakdown eventually.
2005-10-11 14:36:55
131.   Jon Weisman
124 - It is true that to find a year in which the Dodgers lasted longer than the Angels in the playoffs, you have to go all the way back to 2004.

I think of Slate as a thoughtful site but the publication of this article is enough for me to question that assumption.

2005-10-11 14:37:28
132.   GoBears
123. Yes, it would be fun if the AAA team were local, but from how I understand it, that's thinking backwards. MLB teams don't choose where to put their AAA team (maybe other levels too). Rather, they choose which AAA-level team to affiliate with. So the team needs to have its own market, so to speak. Baseball in Vegas makes sense. It's the fastest growing market in the West. But do we really think Long Beach could sustain AAA ball with the Dodgers and Angels splitting the fan base between them?

And I don't have any better ideas either. Bakersfield isn't big enough. SF Giants have Fresno. SB isn't big enough, most likely. Hawaii? Linkmeister would like that idea. And it's still pretty far away.

2005-10-11 14:38:05
133.   FirstMohican
122 - It uhh... went great. Thanks?
2005-10-11 14:38:15
134.   King of the Hobos
Apparently Blake Johnson, Scott Elbert, and Chris Malone were roommates in Columbus, and became good friends. The soon-to-be Vero Big 3 being friends must be a good a sign for Dodger chemists...
2005-10-11 14:41:23
135.   Curtis Lowe
132- How would santa barbara not be big eneough for a AAA team? Its got tons of college kids, so have dollar beer nights and you've got sold out crowds.
2005-10-11 14:42:49
136.   King of the Hobos
Is anyone impatient to learn the details of Royster's interview?

I didn't think so

2005-10-11 14:43:44
137.   Vishal
[123] well, the giants have a minor league team in san jose. heck, the angels have one in rancho cucamonga. how big a market does it need to be?
2005-10-11 14:45:32
138.   Curtis Lowe
I have a family member that leaves down the street from Quake stadium, they have dollar beer nights and it gets packed.
2005-10-11 14:45:40
139.   Curtis Lowe
I have a family member that leaves down the street from Quake stadium, they have dollar beer nights and it gets packed.
2005-10-11 14:46:43
140.   Jon Weisman
128 - We had this discussion a couple of weeks ago. Not by a longshot. Kent is not even the least popular Dodger since Scott Erickson.
2005-10-11 14:47:45
141.   trainwreck
I go to UCSB and I would definitely love to go and there is a good population of Dodger fans here and SB have money and free time with not a ton to do, so I think it could work. AA would be better, but they want to keep that team near Vero.
2005-10-11 14:47:49
142.   FirstMohican
I went to the Lancaster Jethawks' stadium a few times. They got packed when they used the stadium for graduation. Jose Cruz Jr. was huge.
2005-10-11 14:48:21
143.   GoBears
135: SB is not a very big city, and you have to get out to about Camarillo or Oxnard before you're closer to SB than LA. It's also a long drive from the Central Coast cities of Santa Maria and SLO. I just did that drive this weekend. Long drive for regular baseball attendance. Also, the student population of SB dwindles in the summer, when kids are off spending their parents' money elsewhere.

I could be wrong, but it also seems to me that if SB were a viable option, it would have been tried already.

2005-10-11 14:50:28
144.   Curtis Lowe
143- Explain the Quakes succesS?
2005-10-11 15:02:07
145.   alex 7
Welcome aboard Goozmani. Don't worry if your post isn't answered right away. Sometimes people miss a post due to the 5 or 6 new ones that have come on afterward by the time the page is refreshed.

I agree with some of you that a Zito to LA trade doesn't make sense simply because Beane can fleece another GM for much more than he would get out of Depo.

2005-10-11 15:02:57
146.   GoBears
See if you can name these two players by their career numbers:

First, a hitter with a reputation as a post-season stud:

Regular season: .314/.386/.461
Post-season: .306/.380/.456

Next, a pitcher with a reputation as a post-season choke-artist.

ERA K/9 BB/9 H/9
Regular season 3.64 7.2 2.0 8.6
Post-season 3.16 9.8 2.1 7.4

The two are teammates.

2005-10-11 15:04:45
147.   trainwreck
jeter and mussina?
2005-10-11 15:05:10
148.   regfairfield
146 Jeter/Mussina
2005-10-11 15:13:20
149.   Jon Weisman
If it is Mussina, I don't think of him as someone with a repuation as a postseason choke artist. Odalis Perez is more of someone with that kind of rep.
2005-10-11 15:17:16
150.   dzzrtRatt
Rooting for the player:

I'll be rooting for the Angels tonight and all week. But I will enjoy seeing A.J. Pierzynski succeed, if he does. Here's a guy who, on the Giants, made Barry Bonds look polite. They traded three prospects who are on track to be great players for the Twins to get him, but because he ticked off the pitching staff, they dumped him for nothing and the White Sox picked him up. Despite continuing to act like a jerk, A.J.'s thrived in Chicago. His success will make Brian Sabean doubt his own judgement, which means the Giants will be ripe for exploitation by some smart GMs this winter.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-11 15:17:53
151.   LetsGoDodgers
Off topic, but something that really bothered me about last night's telecast was when they showed a picture of Gene Autry after the Angels won. This isn't Autry's team; if he were still alive and owner of the team, he wouldn't have paid for the 4th most expensive roster in MLB. IMO, he deserves absolutely no credit/honor for the franchise's recent successes.

I also give credit to Arte Moreno for doing unpopular things to keep the price of beer down at the stadium and keeping the payroll high. Dissing LAAofA for anything other than their geographical misrepresentations sounds like sour grapes to me.

2005-10-11 15:17:53
152.   GoBears
144 Well, I think there's a difference between levels. AAA stadiums seem to be larger and need bigger fan bases, perhaps because they're more expensive to run.

And San Jose is a bad example if it's meant to be an example of a small market. SJ is big - much bigger than SF! Bigger than Oakland. It's the biggest city in the Bay Area, by far (and in the middle of the metropolis, not at one end of it. If Vishal meant it as an example of a team with a nearby affiliate (against my speculation that Long Beach might be too close to generate its own fan base), then it's a good point. But in this case, maybe the distinction is that there's less competition between the major league team and the lower minors, than between MLB and AAA. Different fans.

I'm just spitballing here. I'm sure there are DT posters with actual knowledge about these things.

2005-10-11 15:19:18
153.   Adam M
131 - Sports writing is a weak point for Slate. If you look at their last 4-5 pieces, they basically amount to "Why my beloved [Dodgers/Braves/White Sox/SC Gamecocks] stinks." Typically, they just farm out sports pieces to people who normally write for them about politics, art, wine, etc. Anyone who's interested in Plaschke's movie reviews, raise your hand.
2005-10-11 15:20:18
154.   DougS
121 I remember the days when the Dodgers' AAA team was in Spokane (this was right before Albuquerque). What's up with that town these days?
2005-10-11 15:23:00
155.   Eric L
143 GB, I think SB (Bob can probably verify) had a few different entries over the years in the CAL league.

As for an AAA team in the region, I think the Inland Empire area would make the most sense. Lake Elsinore of all places packs in the crowds (they draw from Temecula, Murrieta, etc). Rancho does pretty well too. San Bernardino does OK, but it seemed like they did better when the franchise was affiliated with the Dodgers.

2005-10-11 15:30:06
156.   LetsGoDodgers
If Las Vegas is too hard on our pitchers, then how about a growing community like Valencia?

I think the door is always open for the A's to move to San Jose/Santa Clarita, but the city of Oakland (and the stadium) is hell bent on making the A's honor their agreement or make a massive cash settlement to leave Raider Nation. It's a pity, because the team is good but not enough rich people/corporations/etc. go to the games to get revenues up to "Atlanta Braves" levels. A move to the south end of Silicon Valley should remedy that.

2005-10-11 15:30:10
157.   Adam M
154 - the Spokane Indians are a class-A Northwest League affiliate of the Rangers, have been since 1983. Which is strange, given that Tacoma has long had a AAA team and is smaller.

Then again, Portland had a AAA team, the Beavers, for decades. They moved Away sometime in the 1990s, and Portland had to suffer the ignominy of being an A-league affiliate of the Rockies before they got another AAA team a few years back. Something similar happened in Vancouver, BC, which is a huge city. Their team, the Canadians, is now in the NW league as well.

2005-10-11 15:31:50
158.   Adam M
156 - If the problem is that Vegas is hard on the pitchers, instead of moving the team, wouldn't it be easier to, you know, just move the fences back?

And change that stupid name already.

2005-10-11 15:32:44
159.   Adam M
51s, I mean. Nothing wrong with LetsGoDodgers!
2005-10-11 15:35:14
160.   King of the Hobos
156 I fully endorse that. Of corse, they wouldn't move a team here until after I leave...
2005-10-11 15:37:47
161.   King of the Hobos
158 It didn't work so well for the Rockies, and now they have to have OFs with incredible range.
2005-10-11 15:40:09
162.   GoBears
147 , 148: Yup. Jeter and Mussina. Too easy, I guess.

156 Valencia is only 30 miles from Dodger Stadium. I have a hard time believing a AAA team could thrive there, unless they were always home when the Dodgers were away and vice versa.

158 Moving the fences back helps with one problem (HRs) but creates others (huge outfields). I think a sea-level park is the solution, at least until someone comes up with a high-altitude ball.

Actually, I can't figure out why that hasn't been invented and introduced yet. You have to cook differently at high altitude. You have to adjust your car for high-altitude (or used to, anyway). Why not a ball? The Rockies tried the humidor for a while, but why not just make a different ball? Heck, they make different STADIUMS for different climates (i.e., turf, roof). It's silly to argue that the ball must stay pure somehow. Unless pitchers are gonna get injured with a slightly looser stitching...

2005-10-11 15:41:58
163.   LetsGoDodgers
After watching fair amount of Matsui this season, he seems to me like an above-average hitter, an average fielder (given the current state of the game), and has an average arm. Plus, he's 31, which is about 3 years younger than Brian Giles.

This free agent market sucks. If King George is willing/dumb enough to let him go, I hope DePo gets the green light to make a run at him. Hopefully DePo and McCourt learned from last year and will strike early this offseason.

2005-10-11 15:43:40
164.   GoBears
156 I think each time the A's explore San Jose, the Giants scream bloody murder about SJ being in "their" territory. Natch, San Jose is about 4 times as far from SBC as Oakland is, but whatever....

I think that if the A's were to move to SJ, they'd become the South Bay team (diehards excepted) and the Oakland/Berkeley fans would just switch to SF. One thing about Bay Area baseball fans in the last 20 years is that they'll root for (and pay to see) whichever team is doing better. Not the oldtimers, to be sure, but certainly the um, "new timers."

2005-10-11 15:53:46
165.   LetsGoDodgers
164. I concur with everything you said, but getting from San Jose to SBC to watch a Giants game is tough indeed. I wish Bud Selig had the stones to tell Giants ownership, "Shut yer pie hole. In the spirit of doing what's best for the game, I'm moving the A's to San Jose so they can have a huge payroll, which means more money for the small market teams."

Then again, I wish I had wings. Neither of which is going to happen any time soon.

2005-10-11 15:59:09
166.   blue22
163 - If Matsui could be had for a decent contract, I'd be on board. I would pay more to bring in Giles though, who I think is a safer bet.

Matsui is one of these "RBI guys", and I can't think of a better place than hitting behind Jeter, ARod, Giambi, and Sheffield for that type of hitter.

I'd hate to shell out a 4 yr deal for $10M+, and watch him turn in .275-20-90 average years. His supporting stats don't blow me away like Giles or Dunn.

2005-10-11 16:01:37
167.   dzzrtRatt
164 One thing about Bay Area baseball fans in the last 20 years is that they'll root for (and pay to see) whichever team is doing better.

Maybe over the water cooler or the spitoon this is true, but the pattern I've noticed is that the Giants draw well when they're playing well, draw poorly when they're playing poorly; whereas the A's draw poorly no matter whether they're playing well or not. The Angels' games at the end of the season drew big crowds, but it seemed like half the crowd was wearing red.

The A's stadium has always been a joke, and moreso now since Al Davis remade it in the image of his dark and evil mind. SBC Park seems to have helped the Giants' attendance, although they've been a contender every year since it opened (except, you could argue, this year). But when I was in college in the 70s, I could walk up and get a seat between the lines in the field section almost every game, even in '78 when the Giants had McCovey, a rising Jack Clark, Vida Blue, and some other good players who helped them contend.

I think the Bay Area is more of a football area.

2005-10-11 16:05:33
168.   blue22
167 - I disagree. The Bay Area has always lived and died with Warrior's basketball.
2005-10-11 16:08:27
169.   GoBears
165. Yup, the only way to get from SJ to SBC for a game is CalTrain. And it's not bad - it drops you off 2 blocks from the park.

It's just funny how everyone in the Bay Area conceives of things in terms of "City/Peninsula," "East Bay," and "South Bay," with all the newer communities off to the East (along I-680) are another world entirely. Bridges define communities. You can see the each MLB ballpark from the other, while, what, 85%(?) of the metropolis is far away.

LGD is right - the A's SHOULD be a big-market team.

2005-10-11 16:19:53
170.   Vishal
if they stay in the bay area... the oakland A's of fremont? that's still the east bay technically, and it's still BARTable.
2005-10-11 16:20:43
171.   Vishal
(and yeah gobears, i meant the san jose example to parallel long beach's proximity. i'm just spitballing too, though)
2005-10-11 16:21:28
172.   Uncle Miltie
Depodesta "Tell me why I should hire you?"
Royster "I work well with young players, I am good at motivating players, teaching is a very important part of the game."
Depodesta "Thanks for coming. I'll let you know when we are finished with the interviewing process"
Royster "Is that it? You only asked me one question"
Depodesta "Uh huh. Stacy(Depodesta's robot secretary), can you please show Mr. Royster to the door?"
Stacy "Follow me, Mr. Royster"
Depodesta whispers "Thank God I got that one over with"
2005-10-11 16:45:19
173.   Jon Weisman
Although it's certainly possible that Royster's interview is for appearances, I think making an assumption that it is could be considered pretty insulting.

There's no reason I can see that Royster's interview should be less substantial than Trammell's, for example.

2005-10-11 16:50:42
174.   fanerman
166 - I'm not totally sold on Matsui either. Depending on the length of the deal, I'd rather just have Giles.
2005-10-11 16:56:27
175.   Kayaker7
173 Doesn't MLB mandate that a minority candidate be considered? Or, maybe I'm confusing it with the NFL.
2005-10-11 16:58:08
176.   Jon Weisman
175 - I believe so, but again, I think assuming that that's the only reason Royster is being considered - well, that would explain why the mandate would be needed in the first place.
2005-10-11 16:58:44
177.   das411
175 - Ask this question to Ron W.
2005-10-11 17:04:12
178.   Telemachos
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm not sure I've ever read a specific answer.

What exactly does a bench coach DO? My sense of it is that they're kinda the right-hand man of the manager. Is this right?

2005-10-11 17:04:29
179.   blue22
176 - Though if the policy wasn't in place, we'd know for sure, right? Maybe I'm an idealist, but I think that policy is more than a bit demeaning.

Then again, I'm just some middle class white kid from Southern California.

2005-10-11 17:07:02
180.   FirstMohican

"Jim Tracy is moving from one of baseball's biggest markets to one of its smallest, from a team that spends big and thinks big to one with more modest expectations following 13 consecutive losing seasons."

This writer shouldn't ever consider a job at the LAT - he just doesn't have what it takes.

2005-10-11 17:08:33
181.   jasonungar05
General manager Dave Littlefield said Tracy's ability to develop Dodgers players such as Adrian Beltre, Eric Gagne, Paul LoDuca and Cesar Izturis figured prominently in the decision to hire him.

``He's managed winning teams and winning teams in the playoffs,'' Littlefield said of Tracy.

Tracy was 427-383 and won the 2004 NL West title with the Dodgers despite a failed roster overhaul orchestrated by general manager Paul DePodesta that led to a 71-91 record this season. The two did not agree on numerous personnel decisions, including that to not bring back Beltre after he hit 48 homers and had 121 RBIs in 2004.

2005-10-11 17:10:15
182.   blue22
``He's managed winning teams and winning teams in the playoffs,'' Littlefield said of Tracy.

Jose Lima, 2006 opening day starter, Pittsburgh Pirates?

2005-10-11 17:12:05
183.   Bob Timmermann
It would be hard to put another minor league team in Santa Clarita since Los Angeles County is both the territorial property of the Dodgers and Angels and they'd both have to agree. They likely tolerate Lancaster because it so far away.

The Dodgers and Angels have conterminous rights to Los Angeles, Ventura, and Orange Counties.

2005-10-11 17:13:36
184.   gvette

Huh? If ever a man tried to buy his way to the pennant, it was the Cowboy in the 80's, fielding expensive teams starring Reggie, Rod Carew, Fred Lynn, Baylor, Grich, Rudi, DeCinces,Sutton, John etc. Next to the Yankees, I'd bet the Angels had one of the highest payrolls in the AL in the Mauch years.

Don't confuse Gene Autry, with his cheapskate wife Jackie, who tried to claim that Southern California was a "small market" for her team.

2005-10-11 17:14:16
185.   FirstMohican
182 - He might have competition for that slot from Hideo...
2005-10-11 17:15:00
186.   LetsGoDodgers
174. 3 years of Giles versus 4 years of Matsui? Dunno about that one. Considering that either could be trade candidates in the last year of their contracts, 2.5 years of Giles doesn't excite me, especially when you look at the corner outfielders in AAA and AA.

I can see Matsui hitting .290/18/105 with a ton of doubles (40+), the majority of which coming on the road vs. NL West opponents. He's a fairly patient hitter with a decent RISP, which suits me just fine as well.

Giles aside, can anyone foresee another free agent corner outfielder putting up these kind of numbers for the next 3-ish years?

2005-10-11 17:15:50
187.   King of the Hobos
If the White Sox win the WS, should the Dodgers change their name to the Dodger Sox? Or do the Cubs just take it because of a "reversing the curses" trend?
2005-10-11 17:16:00
188.   Bob Timmermann
I've always been led to believe that bench coaches advise the manager on strategy and cross all the ts and dot the is. The bench coach would be the one to keep track of all the lineup changes on both sides, know which relievers and pinch hitters are available, suggest replacements, be a sounding board for ideas, etc.

The bench coach also tells the manager when to go for 1 or 2 after a touchdown.

2005-10-11 17:21:54
189.   LetsGoDodgers
184. I don't confuse the two. My point is all things considered, I don't see the Cowboy shelling out $120MM to field a team.
2005-10-11 17:22:29
190.   fanerman
186 - I'm not sure what your point is regarding our AAA and AA outfielders. Giles just seems like a safer bet to me despite his age, especially away from petco. I'd be happy with either. Is Matsui available for sure? That's just speculation based on the Yankees losing and expectations for "the boss" losing it again right?
2005-10-11 17:23:11
191.   Bob Timmermann
So in 2002, the Angels were trying to win one for the ghost of Gene Autry? What's the mysterious motivational force this year?
2005-10-11 17:25:04
192.   FirstMohican
I apologize if you guys have already talked about this - but I just read a "rumor" that says the Dodgers have interest in Konerko.

Why on earth would the Dodgers pay 11M+ a year for a guy at 283/375/909 when they got 267/343/832 for just over 1M. You could argue that the Dodgers would've gotten even more production from 1B had Choi played more or in different situations. Why would you pay over 10M for a 016/032/075 increase?

2005-10-11 17:26:53
193.   dzzrtRatt
172 If the Dodgers thought so little of Royster, why would they have him manage their AAA club? That's a vitally important job, especially for the Dodgers who are banking a lot on player development. I think those who see this interview as tokenism or sucking up to Selig are reading this wrong. If DePodesta decides he should hire someone from within, Royster might well get the nod over Collins, based on temperament.
2005-10-11 17:28:28
194.   fanerman
192 - Hopefully it's just a rumor. We don't have to upgrade 1B. Outfield and maybe 3rd base are our more pressing needs.
2005-10-11 17:29:21
195.   regfairfield
192 I really doubt that rumor is true.

Remember how Sammy Sosa was supposed to be a Dodger?

2005-10-11 17:29:34
196.   LetsGoDodgers
190. Sorry, I forgot to reference the minor league corner outfielders as Dodgers minor league corner outfielders. Otherwise, it's another dip in the free agent pool...

Matsui is definitely NOT a sure thing to hit the free agent market, in fact I'd say it's a long shot.

Wouldn't it be funny if King George demanded his GM do a sign-and-trade and we got Matsui for Bradley and some minor league pitchers?

2005-10-11 17:31:22
197.   King of the Hobos
193 The Vegas he managed only existed because the Dodgers had to fufill their contract.
2005-10-11 17:32:06
198.   Telemachos
196 Knowing King George, he'll want to acquire big-name stars, rather than prospects. Wouldn't it be hilarious to see Johnny Damon as a Yankee next year?
2005-10-11 17:32:51
199.   Uncle Miltie
I want Royster (or Lovullo) to get the job. I just don't think Royster is a moneyball, though I'm sure he'd be willing to change his philosophies in order to get the job.
2005-10-11 17:33:41
200.   regfairfield
198 Pretty sure that should be "won't it". Damon is asking for a ridiculous amount of money and fills one of the Yankee's biggest holes.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-10-11 17:35:34
201.   Telemachos
200 The Yanks also have something around $30 million coming off the books next year (Bernie Williams retires, Kevin Brown done, etc), so if they plan on keeping their budget around $200 mil, they could be very aggressive in the FA market.
2005-10-11 17:37:53
202.   LetsGoDodgers
Looks like someone slipped Garret Anderson some Doan's.
2005-10-11 17:40:47
203.   LetsGoDodgers
Off topic, but why do players' statistics "reset" with every round of the playoffs? Why can't they be cumulative per segment (i.e. pre-season stats, season stats, post-season stats)?
2005-10-11 17:41:38
204.   fanerman
196 - I meant, do you mean we have a lot of minor league outfielders or a few? Unless Guzman moves to the OF (which is highly possible), we don't have many highly touted OF prospects in our upper levels, do we? Delwyn Young, Justin Ruggiano?
2005-10-11 17:47:12
205.   fawnkyj
I like Matsui for his bat too but does anyone think that he would be good to have in the clubhouse with al the young kids coming up?

I mean we are gonna need a leader and you Kent is not gonna talk to nobody and i hear Matsui isn't biggest english conversationalist.

2005-10-11 17:53:02
206.   Bob Timmermann

For the very best reason there is:

Because that's the way it's always been done.

2005-10-11 17:58:00
207.   LetsGoDodgers
204. Yes on both points, unless one of our highly touted infielders gets moved to the outfield.
2005-10-11 17:58:39
208.   gvette
191-- Mysterious Halo motivational force this year?

The ghosts of Gene Mauch and Bo Belinsky.

189--In today's numbers, the payroll for the '82 Angels which featured Reggie, Rod Carew, Baylor, Lynn, Grich etc.( all of whom were free agents), probably would be over $120 mil.

2005-10-11 17:59:00
209.   das411
188 - Your bench coach is also there, as far as I understand it, for those times when your manager goes all red-ass and gets himself ejected for some stupid reason. If Gary Varsho can do that, most of us probably could too.

203 - Beltran's didn't last year, the same way Bonds's didn't in 2002 :)

2005-10-11 18:01:21
210.   das411
Wow, does anyone else think Joe Crede looks like some sort of ungodly offspring of Peter Forsberg and Scott Stevens?

--awkward silence--

Is there a way to program my TV so that any game Paul Byrd pitches in automatically comes through in black and white? Cause he is that old-school. We need to find a way to get him and Radke pitching against each other...

2005-10-11 18:02:39
211.   Bob Timmermann

I must admit I've never really dwelt on the "what if" of a mating between those two men.

2005-10-11 18:08:49
212.   das411
211 - Really? It IS a "New NHL" ;-)

And a scrappy fall into the stands by Erstad! I just might have to go put my Chisox t-shirt through the wash, I wore it three times last week and it worked pretty well.

2005-10-11 18:10:53
213.   Jon T
I love all this talk about small ball in this series... meanwhile, FOX just showed a graphic saying that the 4 guys with the most homeruns this postseason play on the Angels & White Sox.
2005-10-11 18:23:30
214.   rageon
I just tuned into the game. Who is the random annoying voice I keep hearing as the 3rd guy in the booth?
2005-10-11 18:25:00
215.   Bob Timmermann
Sweet Lou Piniella.
2005-10-11 18:28:21
216.   rageon
Thanks Bob. I thought it sounded a bit like him.

Was there a specific moment in history when guys began to receive commentary positions based on on-field performance moreso than any type of actual speaking ability?

2005-10-11 18:29:20
217.   popup
Remembering Sandy:

Sandy Koufax made his second appearance in the 1959 World Series as the starting pitcher in game six at the L.A. Colisiem against the Chicago White Sox. With the Dodgers leading the series 3-1, a win by Sandy would bring a championship to Los Angeles.

Sandy pitched well but the Dodgers gave him no run support. In the 4th inning, the White Sox pushed across the only run of the game. Nellie Fox began the inning with a single and Jim Landis followed with another single that moved Fox to third. Sherm Lollar hit into a double play, but Fox scored on the twin killing.

Sandy remained in the game through the 7th inning. In the 7th, Duke Snider pinch hit for Sandy and hit into a fielder's choice for the second out of the inning. The inning ended with Dodger runners on second and third being stranded on a Charly Neal fly ball to right.

The Dodgers wasted another chance in the 8th inning when they loaded the bases with one out. Carl Furillo, pinch hitting for John Roseboro, popped up to third and Don Zimmer ended the threat by hitting a short fly to left.

The Dodgers were retired in order in the 9th to end the game with a throughly frustrating 1-0 loss before a record crowd of 92,706 at the Colisieum.

Sandy's pitching line was 5 hits (all singles) 1 walk, 6 strikeouts and 1 earned run over 7 innings, His cumulative totals for the 1959 World Series were 9 innings pitched, 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 strikeouts, and 1 earned run.

Thanks to retrosheet.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-11 18:53:03
218.   das411 everybody off watching "Commander in Chief"?
2005-10-11 18:59:16
219.   King of the Hobos
Rowand almost got it...had his knee not hit it, he'd have handed Erstad a double. When will anybody learn?
2005-10-11 19:00:00
220.   Bob Timmermann
Everyone is too caught up in the mystique of Paul Byrd.
2005-10-11 19:04:57
221.   das411
Has Byrd ever made an all-star team Bob?

...that one is just a gimme

2005-10-11 19:07:42
222.   King of the Hobos
Some guy at John Sickels' blog posted the winter roster for the Zulia Eagles of the Venezualen league. Dodgers on the team include Harold Eckert, Jon Weber, and Delwyn Young. Not sure where Young will play, although it looks like he could be OF ready by spring...
2005-10-11 19:13:23
223.   King of the Hobos
I wish Ozzie would stop sending the runners. Such as Pierzynski... (hit n run or not)
2005-10-11 19:13:43
224.   Bob Timmermann
Wasn't Paul Byrd one of those screwball Phillies pitcher All-Stars? Like Tyler Green?
2005-10-11 19:15:03
225.   Jon T
Is it just me or have there been like 700 caught-stealing's these playoffs?
2005-10-11 19:19:10
226.   Uncle Miltie
Is that smartball? It doesn't seem very wise to me.
2005-10-11 19:22:47
227.   King of the Hobos
Jim Rome should not be offered Plashcke's job (not that any of us would want him to have it)

2005-10-11 19:25:34
228.   das411
224 - and Heath Slocumb and Ricky Bottalico and Danny Jackson and Doug Jones and wow, Vicente Padilla, The Man Who Ruined The 2002 All Star Game.

225, 226 - Maybe this is why the teams with good catchers are in the ALCS and the teams with horrible catchers are at home.

2005-10-11 19:28:32
229.   das411
In other news...they are catching up: or

2005-10-11 19:35:01
230.   King of the Hobos
228 Posada caught 4 out of 5 base runners trying to steal, if that's what you mean bu good catchers
2005-10-11 20:00:19
231.   King of the Hobos
And Rowand bunts (and fails) to waste one of the three precious outs left
2005-10-11 20:20:11
232.   King of the Hobos
We all celebrating the Angels win? Or are we lamenting that Ozzie used Smartball to make outs deep in the game?

Or do we just not care, and we're waiting for the Times to release an article detailing the Royster interview, depite the fact the article probably will not exist?

2005-10-11 20:20:50
233.   fanerman
I REALLY don't want to see the Angels in the World Series, if only because it fuel to the LAD/LAAoA rivalry fire and may put more pressure on Dodger management to do something...
2005-10-11 20:21:45
234.   fanerman
do something bad/irrational/not part of the plan. I mean.
2005-10-11 20:25:34
235.   Telemachos
I hate the White Sox (have for awhile).
I hate the Yankees (duh).

Yet, I'm so frustated by the ridiculous pro-Angel coverage that I'm actually rooting against the Halos. (of course, given where I grew up the Angels are traditionally my third-fave team from the AL West, so...)

Yet, ironically, the White Sox and Yanks, who annoy me when they win, now manage to annoy me when (and how) they lose.

2005-10-11 20:32:28
236.   Vishal
[231] "could rowand hit a walkoff HR?" is a much more interesting question to me than "can he get a bunt down so the catcher can hit with 1 out?"
2005-10-11 20:40:20
237.   dzzrtRatt
Just curious, how is it "ridiculous pro-Angel coverage"? They're a winning team. You can't gainsay the accomplishment of winning last night with your #1 pitcher collapsing in the second inning, and then going to Chicago and taking a game probably 95 percent of sportswriters thought they'd lose. Everybody loves a winner, especially when they overcome adversity. Would it be better to have tomorrow headline be: "Chisox, Angels Almost Tie: From Fourth Inning On, Sox Outscore Halos."

The 2004 Dodgers got some really ridiculous pro-Dodger coverage--in 2005. "Ah, the days of yore, when Finley patrolled centerfield, Beltre hit the opposite way, and Lima wove his magic spell on Dodger bats!"

2005-10-11 20:43:52
238.   Bob Timmermann
In the LA Times, the Angels, with the exception of Plaschke, are pretty much getting coverage proportionate with their accomplishments.

Why does rooting for the Angels or Dodgers have to be a zero sum game all the time? Except for interleague play, can't I root for both teams?

2005-10-11 21:12:55
239.   Vishal
it doesn't have to be, but it usually is because of the nature of the coverage. and it's not just plaschke; just today someone referenced an article about slate about how the angels' success is at the dodgers' expense. the idea that the angels doing well makes the dodgers look bad is pretty widespread. i think it's rather baseless but it's still out there.
2005-10-11 21:17:26
240.   Bob Timmermann
Another twist in the Tracy saga.

2005-10-11 21:25:06
241.   Steamer
I REALLY want to see the Angels in the World Series, if only because it fuel to the LAD/LAAoA rivalry fire and may put more pressure on Dodger management to do something...
2005-10-11 21:31:17
242.   Vishal
[241] "do something"? like what? some headline-grabbing move that looks flashy in the short term and hurts the team for many years to come? i'd rather they stick with the game plan and build a solid team that fits with their vision and philosophy. they certainly can't go 71-91 every year; i don't think dodger fans will tolerate that no matter WHAT the angels do. so i'm sure they're working to make the necessary additions/subtractions to the team, and i don't think they need some totally extraneous impetus like the angels winning the world series to propel them to do something drastic and unnecessary.
2005-10-11 21:33:35
243.   Kayaker7
240 I'm just at a loss for word, upon reading that article. Basically, Tracy asked for complete control over the team, when he demanded the extension. I mean, he spent the entire season defying his boss, then he says to his boss, "I want enough time to build the team up to what I think it should be." My, my, my. Never realized how damn arrogant Jimbo is. Good riddance, Jim.

In looking back, Depodesta should have fired Tracy during the season. Because he was allowed to run roughshod over his boss's suggestions, he mistakenly believed that he could demand what he wanted. Unf-ingbelievable.

2005-10-11 21:35:23
244.   Steve
At that money, with the tax savings and cost of living in Pittsburgh, I wouldn't really care if I were managing a whole team of Hee Seop Chois and Antonio Perezes.
2005-10-11 21:38:19
245.   Mick
An interesting article looking at the Dodgers and Angels.

"Take away the Dodgers' persistent mediocrity, and there is no Angels renaissance."

2005-10-11 21:40:50
246.   Bob Timmermann

I think the Slate article was discussed in the 100-200 range.

2005-10-11 21:48:27
247.   Telemachos
237 I don't claim my feelings are rational in the slightest. :)

But, for some reason, my personal AL West has always been A's, then Mariners, then Angels. (I did enjoy them brutally slaughtering the Giants in '02).

2005-10-11 21:55:33
248.   xaphor
240 "Familiarity and continuity are certainly two intangibles that are absolute musts for a club to be successful."

Good luck with that in Pitts. where only a few players are signed for next year.

Seeing how the word talent never enters the picture when talking about our player moves is very telling and confirms what DT posters have known all year about Tracy's lineup selections.

That opening series should be fun as it will have a big hand in determining Tracy's legacy. If we win the infatuation will pass. If the Bucks make a good showing the LAT will be intolerable (even more so).

2005-10-11 21:58:41
249.   King of the Hobos
240 I'm not sure who it is, btu that's not Tracy they're quoting. Just look:

"I would be remiss if I said there were not philosophical differences as far as the club and how we put it together, what would work and not work. The disruption and focus loss with players is not good for anyone. That's where I felt strongly that it was important to wipe the slate clean."

As opposed to:

"Would I have been remiss if I said there were not philosophical differences as far as the club and how we put it together, what would work and not work? Yes, the disruption and focus loss with players is not good for anyone. That's where I felt strongly that it was important to wipe the slate clean."

Not a huge difference, but it's pretty glaring if you ask me

2005-10-11 22:00:27
250.   popup
Driving home from work I was listening to the Angels/White Sox pregame on ESPN radio and I heard that McCourt will have direct imput on the managerial decision. To me that is the most bothersome bit of news I have heard about the Dodgers in some time. I don't expect McCourt to read about the managerial hire in the papers like the rest of us, but I don't want the owner making the decision on who gets the job. If McCourt does not have enough confidence in DePo to hire the field manager, he should get rid of DePo.

Stan from Tacoma

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-10-11 22:04:49
251.   King of the Hobos
250 From yesterday's LAT

"The new manager is my decision," DePodesta said last week before leaving for Italy to attend his sister's wedding. He returns to work today.

"I'll consult with Frank," he said. "Ultimately, it will be my call."

2005-10-11 22:08:33
252.   King of the Hobos
Night game today, but nonetheless, it's over in the desert

Abreu 2-5, R
Kemp 0-5, 2 Ks

Not the best game for Dodgers prospects

2005-10-11 22:23:52
253.   sanchez101
I dont understand why McCourt is seen as a faliure, while Moreno is a winner. In the first two McCourt years the Dodgers produced a division winner and then a injury-ravaged clunker. In the first two Moreno years the Angels produced a injury-ravenged clunker and a division winner. I dont really see the difference. Over their first two seasons, McCourt's Dodgers have won 164 games, Moreno's Angels won 169 in his first two seasons.
2005-10-11 22:26:58
254.   King of the Hobos
253 Lowered beer prices and Vlad. And he didn't oust the GM "for no reason other than be cheap"

Essentially, Moreno is a good PR man

2005-10-11 22:28:04
255.   regfairfield
253 Arte Moreno didn't trade Darin Erstad and Adam Kennedy for Choi and Jeff Kent.
2005-10-11 22:28:19
256.   Sam DC
For the Dzzrt Ratt files, from a politcal blog by a UCLA grad named Ezra Klein: "I'm proud of what I do, but I'm constantly on the lookout for a descriptor that doesn't make it sound like I write something a toddler picks and eats."
2005-10-11 22:29:26
257.   Sam DC
and Ratt, I see I've given you one capital and one space too many. oops.
2005-10-11 22:34:06
258.   sanchez101
This whole Dodgers-Angels rivalry seems to remind me of the Yankees-Mets in NY. I dont remember (i was a year old in 1986), but did the Mets become the "New York" team in their glory years in mid-late 80's? I imagine that they were much more popular, as the Yankees in that era werent anything special. Once the Yankees started winning again NY became the Yankees town again. All the dodgers need to do is start winning, and we dont have a young team like the A's nipping on our heels.
2005-10-11 22:36:39
259.   King of the Hobos
I just realized that because Leyland brought on the Pirates-based coaching staff, Gibson is without a job. I'm not sure how much I'd want a Trammell-Gibson duo, but getting Gibson when he is unemployed would probably be a good PR move. That said, DePo already has mentined the new manager will pick his own staff
2005-10-11 22:40:39
260.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets became the "New York" team almost as soon as they began play in 1962. The Yankees won a World Series in 1962, but the Mets still drew 922,000 people to see a 40-120 team. Just something about them. And the Yankees went south after 1964 too, so New York had two bad teams.

The Yankees took back the town in the late 1970s, but then the Mets took it back in the mid 1980s. Then eventually the pendulum swung back to the Yankees.

But Steinbrenner fears the Mets much more than McCourt fears the Angels I think.

2005-10-11 22:43:49
261.   Uncle Miltie
McCourt and his puppet got rid of fan favorites and clubhouse leaders (Lo Duca, Roberts, Green, Cora, Finley). Arte brought Championship Players® (Cabrera, Finley) and extended the contract of 2 fan favorite (Anderson, Kennedy). He also got rid of that cancer Guillen, while McCourt kept Bradley. The Angels care about heart and soul, clubhouse chemistry, winning, and getting their uniforms dirty. The Dodgers only care about numbers (saving money, having a high on base percentage) and favor computers over scouts.

And I'll end with a quote from professional writer
"Last season, one study showed that Bonds reached base 1.1 times per plate appearance"

2005-10-11 22:55:36
262.   dzzrtRatt
256 exquisite.

"Something a toddler picks and eats" is name I'll consider if I ever do my own blog.

2005-10-11 23:19:02
263.   LAT
I believe McCourt said he will have an "advisory" role in the selection process.

Wow, Jimbo got some goooood money.

243 Not sure we read the same article. Tracy knew he was coming from a position of strength with the Pitt job in his pocket and made an aggressive play to the Dodgers. Nothing wrong with that. I'd have done the same. Although his rear end must have tighten when Macha unexpectedly entered the race. Speaking of which, I wonder how Macha felt about interviewing for a job that wasn't really available. I'm getting the feeling that goes on alot.

Bob, I'm with you--I have no problem rooting for both Dodgers and Angels. For me the enemy will always be SF. Anything else is artificial and media driven.

Finally, I love Molina. Not for his play but because he reminds me of Joe Ferguson--any fat catcher reminds me of Joe. Takes me back.

2005-10-12 00:07:23
264.   Linkmeister
I'm rooting for the Angels here, if only because I was there at the beginning. Steve Bilko! Leon Wagner! Rocky Bridges! Bob Cerv! The immortal Ted Kluszewski!

I really was there. I think I saw a game at Wrigley Field in 1961.

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