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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

LCS 2 for 1
2005-10-12 16:14
by Jon Weisman

Los Angeles at Chicago, 5 p.m.
Houston at St. Louis, 5 p.m.

All three Flying Molinas hit the playoff floor tonight, with Bengie batting cleanup and designated hitting.

How many 21st-century Dodger DHes can you name? A full list follows:

Ron Coomer
Jason Grabowski
Shawn Green
Marquis Grissom
Mark Grudzielanek
Dave Hansen
Todd Hundley
Brian Jordan
Eric Karros
Mike Kinkade
Chad Kreuter
Paul Lo Duca
Antonio Perez
Jeff Reboulet
Olmedo Saenz
Gary Sheffield
Jose Vizcaino
Jayson Werth

Comments (271)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-12 16:28:10
1.   King of the Hobos
Kreuter DHed? I don't remember that too well...

Lucky me, I get to miss both games tonight, because someone had to schedule them at the same time. Whoever thought that up is lucky that I don't particularly care if any of these teams win

2005-10-12 16:36:07
2.   Bob Timmermann
Chad Kreuter was the first Dodger DH to hit a home run.

Yes, there was a game when the Dodgers manager thought that he needed to get Kreuter's bat in the lineup.

June 16, 2001 at Anaheim
The Dodgers lineup against Jarrod Washburn was:

Lo Duca C
Bocachica 2B
Green RF
Sheffield LF
Karros 1B
Grissom CF
Beltre 3B
Kreuter DH
Cora SS

Most of the Dodgers reserves at the time were lefties.

2005-10-12 16:38:52
3.   Romyrick
Did Jeff Reboulet write Mein Kampf?
2005-10-12 16:45:15
4.   fanerman
At least Jason Phillips isn't on that list.
2005-10-12 16:55:02
5.   Bob Timmermann
Reboulet would have been the more likely choice to be a right-handed hitting DH for the Dodgers that day back in 2001, but he had a strained hamstring. The rest of the Dodgers bench was lefty: Dave Hansen, Tom Goodwin, and Chris Donnells.
2005-10-12 16:55:28
6.   dzzrtRatt
If you have cable TV you can go back & forth between the two games. The NL game is not on radio in LA. I'm going to be on the road the next hour or so. I doubt Rory Markus is going to do a Scully and call both games simultaneously.

Ach, it's a lovely day in Southern California, so why complain?

2005-10-12 17:05:26
7.   D4P
That's because he was starting at 1b.
2005-10-12 17:11:28
8.   Jon Weisman
Dodger Thoughts, June 11, 2003:

2005-10-12 17:13:28
9.   D4P
How was Ron ever going to improve vs. righties without getting some PAs?
2005-10-12 17:14:38
10.   Marty
Phillips may not be on that list, but he's on MY list.
2005-10-12 17:16:19
11.   das411
Does anybody think StL is gonna come out flat and just get completely blown away in this series? Just like in the WS last year? I mean, not necessarily predicting a sweep here but Pettitte, Clemens, Oswalt is pretty close to Pedro, Schilling, Lowe...
2005-10-12 17:17:16
12.   Jon Weisman
9 - How was I ever going to win an Emmy without getting some Sopranos script assignments?
2005-10-12 17:18:54
13.   Bob Timmermann
The Astros weak offense will negate the pitching advantage.

I also think the Cardinals have better middle and long relief than the Astros.

2005-10-12 17:21:06
14.   Bob Timmermann
Daryle Ward was injured or else he could have been a DH.

I'm thinking that Tracy probably felt that since Coomer had DHed before, he was likely the best choice. The other good choice, Jolbert Cabrera, was starting at short that day.

Green DHed the final two days in Detroit and Mike Kinkade got to put on a glove!

2005-10-12 17:21:24
15.   das411
Um...Bob, I watched about 15 innings of Astro middle and long relief the other day. They held up pretty well in that one.

Plus isn't Willy Taveras the designated scrap master for this series? Or would you rather see the David Eckstein grudge match?

2005-10-12 17:26:16
16.   Bob Timmermann
The Braves middle relief wasn't bad either in that game too. But they were facing Round Rock for the most part.
2005-10-12 17:29:04
17.   Jon Weisman
Dave Hansen is the Dodgers' career leader in designated hits with eight, along with about five or six walks.
2005-10-12 17:29:17
18.   Romyrick

If i were to send you a short script I wrote would you read it and tell me what you think?

I totally understand if you dont want too so dont worry about saying no.

2005-10-12 17:31:39
19.   D4P
Yep. It's like the universe just opened a path for you. "Universe, you did it again!"
2005-10-12 17:32:29
20.   Bob Timmermann
Retrosheet has Hansen as 6 for 35 with 6 BBs as a Dodgers DH.
2005-10-12 17:35:42
21.   Jon Weisman
Sequential first inning:

Top of the first
Figgins flies out.
Biggio grounds out.
Cabrera grounds out.

Bottom of the first
Guerrero grounds out.
Taveras strikes out.
Berkman doubles.
Ensberg grounds out.

0-0 after 1 inning

2005-10-12 17:36:58
22.   Bob Timmermann
Ozzie Guillen wants the early lead tonight no matter what!
2005-10-12 17:37:32
23.   Jon Weisman
20 - According to

2000 - Hansen 4 for 15, five walks
2001 - Hansen 1 for 1, one walk
2002 - Hansen 3 for 12, zero walks

2005-10-12 17:41:04
24.   Bob Timmermann
Retrosheet also has a 1 for 7 DH season for Hansen in 1999
2005-10-12 17:41:30
25.   Jon Weisman
Sequential second inning:

Top of the second

Podsednik reaches second base on throwing error.
Iguchi sacrifices, Podsednik to third.
Eckstein singles, Podsednik scores!
Dye grounds to shortstop, Eckstein forced at second base.
Konerko singles, Dye to second.
Edmonds pops out.

Middle of the second, Visitors 1, Home 0

2005-10-12 17:43:07
26.   Jon Weisman
18 - Depends what you mean by short. I only say that because I'm so strapped for time these days, and I don't like to give half-baked notes.
2005-10-12 17:45:04
27.   Jon Weisman
24 - so that'd be nine hits, then?
2005-10-12 17:45:52
28.   Jon Weisman
Bottom of the second
Everett grounds out.
Pujols flies out.
Molina flies out.

End of the second: Visitors 1, Home 0

Okay, that's all I can do. Someone else can pick it up from here if you want (though I doubt you'll want to.)

2005-10-12 17:46:19
29.   D4P
Either way, I think we can all agree that DH was, well, a fabulous DH.
2005-10-12 17:46:27
30.   Jon Weisman
25 26 27 28

Finally got my first cycle!

2005-10-12 17:50:45
31.   Romyrick

Its about 15 pages but i think i'll wait and show it to some teachers and my acting coach. I dont want to give a half-baked script to someone who matters.

2005-10-12 17:53:48
32.   Jon Weisman
31 - I don't matter, but that's a length I can deal with.
2005-10-12 17:56:17
33.   Jon T
Thoughts on FOX's Scooter, the animated pitch illustrator?
2005-10-12 17:56:44
34.   Linkmeister
Phew. Glad to see baseball being discussed here. I love music, but I'm too old for the band names being thrown about in the previous thread.
2005-10-12 17:57:30
35.   Linkmeister
33Unlike the hockey puck illustrator or magnet or whatever that was, Scooter should retire.
2005-10-12 17:59:28
36.   trainwreck
Is Glenn Hoffman working third for the White Sox?
2005-10-12 18:00:50
37.   Jon T
"All 3 of the Molina brothers are playing tonight... well, or at least in uniform."
2005-10-12 18:01:44
38.   Marty
36 or "wave em home" Tommy Lasorda
2005-10-12 18:02:00
39.   das411
35 - I would like to introduce Mister Bonds to Scooter sometime
2005-10-12 18:04:59
40.   Jon T
39 - I would like to lock Bonds in a room with a bunch of inquisitive reporters for a few hours, then let him loose on the Scooter.

Not to go all Joe Morgan, but that was probably a good use of the bunt by Carpenter there.

2005-10-12 18:12:30
41.   Mark
33 Scooter is clearly geared towards 6-year-olds. And I tend to think that Fox underestimates the intelligence and aesthetic appreciation that 6-year-old boys have: if they were to make Scooter less vintage-60s-Warner-Brothers-cartoon, and make him more vintage-00s-rendered-anime-cartoon, they'd get a better response.
2005-10-12 18:20:14
42.   Jon Weisman
Hershiser is interviewing for the A's job - SF Chronicle.
2005-10-12 18:20:29
43.   LAT
Nice DP by Grudz to get Cards out of bases loaded jam.
2005-10-12 18:21:21
44.   underdog
Re: Scooter: What 39/Das said.

One of the lowest points in Fox's broadcasting career (which is full of them).

Re: DHs. Mike Kinkade, born to DH.
(Where is he now?)
But man, that lineup posted above makes me nostalgic - not much for chemistry but some darned good hitters.

2005-10-12 18:21:52
45.   Goozmani
Scooter is not needed, IMHO. I dont think there are 6 year olds with the attention span of an adult, watching the game by theirselves. Therefore, anybody watching the game with them will be able to explain the curveball.

Im predicting this to be the Cardinals year.

2005-10-12 18:22:25
46.   fawnkyj
Hopefully Depodesta and Beane are trading notes on whom they are interviewing.

The Cards seem stronger this year than last year even without Rolen. Scary.

2005-10-12 18:23:39
47.   underdog
History, not career. Sheesh...

42. As long as he doesn't ever manage the Giants (just because that's even more wrong than Dusty managing them), I'm cool with whatever Hershiser ends up doing.

I heard Scooter's on Beane's secondary list.

2005-10-12 18:26:03
48.   Todd
Surprised no one's commented on McCarver's comment that, well, I think he said that Uribe or Cabrera was used to some unpredictable hops because of the diamonds they play baseball on in "the Caribbean", I think he said. Anyone? And yeah, I think a lot of ten-year olds who like baseball at least know more or less what a change up is or any such pitch. And if they don't know and they're maybe 8, they're probably not too interested. Seems incredibly irritating. Louie Louie is a nice addition to the booth but really, seems like a three-man booth including Tim McCarver is tooooooo big.
2005-10-12 18:28:38
49.   fawnkyj
Well Orel did pitch for them...
2005-10-12 18:35:09
50.   LAT
Astros can't buy a run. Out at the plate on perfect play by Cards
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-12 18:35:49
51.   Bob Timmermann
These games don't look like they are going to be Yankee-Red Sox marathons. I need them to go past 9 so I can watch "Lost" on a time-shifted basis and skip through commercials.
2005-10-12 18:39:01
52.   Bob Timmermann
Why is it in the Angels-White Sox game that Lou Piniella keeps talking about the Cardinals?
2005-10-12 18:40:23
53.   Linkmeister
Bob, "Lost" is gonna be repeated on Saturday night, at least out here. I think ABC is rerunning several shows then, expecting to lose audience to the playoffs.
2005-10-12 18:40:26
54.   natepurcell
hey how much did the yankees send us this year for weavers contract?
2005-10-12 18:40:27
55.   Jon T
I wish FOX could do a broadcast with a booth that has Howard Cosell, Tim McCarver, and Rick Sutcliffe, with maybe Joe Buck and Joe Morgan as dugout reporters, and use Scooter every other inning or so. And the game should be last night's Sox-Angels game, with Tony LaRussa being consulted occasionally about laying down a squeeze bunt. I think I would pay $1000 to see this.
2005-10-12 18:41:33
56.   Romyrick
I think the angels have the right idea by bunting, its easier to explain bunting when you have so many players that cant hit.
2005-10-12 18:42:30
57.   popup
If FOX still owned the Dodgers, Scooter could be the new pitching coach

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-12 18:44:07
58.   Bob Timmermann
I was very thankful "Lost" was repeated last week after my DV-R died. But I have a new one. It seems to be doing better than my cat.
2005-10-12 18:48:37
59.   Bob Timmermann
I want that jacket that Bud Black is wearing. Looks good.

Probably costs about $500.

2005-10-12 18:49:36
60.   LAT
58. Bob, I have a first cousin who is a writer for Lost, won an Emmy this year, but I have never watched a single episode. Is it really that good?
2005-10-12 18:50:04
61.   natepurcell
anyone know how much the yanks chipped this season on weavers contract?
2005-10-12 18:54:24
62.   Telemachos
51, 53 - Thanks to the glory of new technology, you can now download new episodes of LOST to your (brand new) iPod.
2005-10-12 18:55:31
63.   natepurcell
how much do those video ipods cost?
2005-10-12 18:56:15
64.   Todd
59-That was my thought. Never seen one like it. It is very nice.
2005-10-12 18:56:50
65.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if "Lost" is as good as everyone thinks. I just enjoy the storyline unfolding.
2005-10-12 18:59:14
66.   Todd
Hey, what's the html for linking to previous posts?
2005-10-12 19:01:58
67.   das411
55 - Would this be like in the first Naked Gun movie? If so you definitely need Reggie there too!
2005-10-12 19:03:07
68.   sgreen23
HI there,
First time posting but I've been reading the site since last year. It helps me get through living in the Bay Area.
Couple of observations:
Anyone as unimpressed with Vlad's play? I know people have complained about Garret's lack of emotion on the field but at least he looks like he's giving an effort.
Pinella's commentary sounds like the commentary on the baseball video games.


2005-10-12 19:03:49
69.   Telemachos
Todd, use "[" link "]" (without the spaces or quotes)

Apple shill mode on:
The new iPods are $299 and $399 -- 30 and 60 gigabyte models respectively. They come in black or white now, and do all the typical usual music playing thing. It's just that now they can play video as well.

2005-10-12 19:04:34
70.   regfairfield
68 Seven games do not a proper evaluation make.
2005-10-12 19:05:27
71.   Jon T
67 - And while we're at it, let's see if we can work the ESPN Sunday night football crew into the mix somehow.

LaRussa needs to get Carpenter out immediately; he's working on a Jeff Weaver-esque meltdown right now.

2005-10-12 19:06:57
72.   Jon T
70 - Agree, but he's made at least a couple of strange baserunning plays this postseason.
2005-10-12 19:09:46
73.   sgreen23
Granted it's a small sample size, but it is the playoffs and he is their best player or at least their marquee player.
2005-10-12 19:10:51
74.   regfairfield
73 Is A-Rod a playoff failure? If you agree, then yes, Vlad is a choker. Otherwise, it's just sample size issues.
2005-10-12 19:12:02
75.   Linkmeister
71 Never fear, next year Al Michaels will be doing MNF on ESPN, while NBC has Sunday Night football with Madden. What that means for Mike Patrick, I don't know.
2005-10-12 19:12:22
76.   Bob Timmermann
I guess Guerrero is just one of those superstars who can't come through in the postseason! He should be traded to the Yankees for Alex Rodriguez!

Actually, I'm surprised that Anderson is playing as well as he is. After Game 1 of the Yankee series, he was made out to the Southern California version of Bernie Williams. The aging veteran who can't cut in the field anymore.

Lou Piniella says incredibly obvious things. You would think someone who was a manager for a long time wouldn't be hedging his bets on what Scioscia and Guillen are doing.

2005-10-12 19:14:18
77.   sgreen23
I'm more concerned with effort.
I beleive A-Rod tried his best. If anything he might have been pressing.
Vlad, on the other hand, doesn't look like he's trying very hard.
2005-10-12 19:16:31
78.   Todd
75 Yeah, I was going to suggest Phil Simms and Madden in the booth with Cosell and McCarver. Punches would be thrown...
2005-10-12 19:20:51
79.   das411
Chris Burke > Carlos Beltran?
2005-10-12 19:21:16
80.   Linkmeister
Burke (yes, that guy) with a two-run pinch hit home run in the 7th for the Astros. Now 5-2, Cards. Pettite out.
2005-10-12 19:21:22
81.   LAT
Chris Burke, who has not had an AB since his PH HR against the Braves, just hit a 2HR for the Stros
2005-10-12 19:22:09
82.   LAT
Dang Link, you got me by 6 seconds!
2005-10-12 19:22:22
83.   Jon T
71 - Didn't I just say that would happen? (Chris Burke just hit a 2-run shot)

76 - Have you seen Larry Bowa on Baseball Tonight? If Pinella is the Batman of the obvious, then Bowa fits well into Robin's tights.

2005-10-12 19:23:11
84.   Bob Timmermann
I don't want to see Larry Bowa in tights.
2005-10-12 19:24:50
85.   trainwreck
I believe Costas is doing Sunday Night with Madden as Michaels does MNF with Theisman (ugggghh). Patrick gets to keep doing college basketball haha.
2005-10-12 19:24:57
86.   Icaros
Man, the White Sox are stupid on the basepaths.
2005-10-12 19:25:13
87.   LAT
"The aging veteran who can't cut in the field anymore." Did you speak to soon? Could be.

Never mind. Nice throw by the aging veteran.

2005-10-12 19:25:15
88.   Linkmeister
S'ok, das got me by a few seconds too. Grins...
2005-10-12 19:26:39
89.   LAT
LaRussa letting Carpenter bat in the bottom of the 7th. Fx using that annoying home plate cam.
2005-10-12 19:27:43
90.   Jon T
84 - It's probably no worse than Don Zimmer in his baseball uniform.

Every time I see Springer, I think of Dennis Springer and that eephus he threw in the Bonds' 73 HR game...

2005-10-12 19:29:05
91.   Jon T
Can you be over 5'10" and be "scrappy" or "a gamer"?
2005-10-12 19:29:34
92.   LAT
That great, Pinella asks "if Molina gets on do you pich run him here?" McCarver says "of course, the Angels have three catchers on the roster." Isn't Lou supposed to be giving the manager's perspective.
2005-10-12 19:30:05
93.   das411
89 - I actually like the dirt-cam, it makes Busch stadium look demonic.

Quick everybody, how many innings will the Sox/Ana game go??

2005-10-12 19:32:40
94.   Icaros
93 9
2005-10-12 19:33:57
95.   LAT
Arte looked like Deputy Dog there
2005-10-12 19:36:23
96.   popup
Scioscia better hope it does not go extra innings.

San from Tacoma

2005-10-12 19:41:10
97.   Bob Timmermann
I, for one, would like to see Esteban Yan's first postseason appearance.
2005-10-12 19:41:47
98.   Steve
91 -- Nor can you be Asian
2005-10-12 19:43:44
99.   Icaros
I, for one, would like to see Esteban Yan's first postseason appearance.

So would anyone rooting for Chicago.

2005-10-12 19:48:09
100.   das411
YES! LaRussa's LIDS is Sooooo Taguchi!!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-12 19:51:13
101.   popup
I guess Scioscia now hopes this game goes into extra innings.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-12 19:55:03
102.   das411
Buckle up everybody, this game is about to get verrrry interesting
2005-10-12 19:55:03
103.   Bob Timmermann
Oh no! An Eckstein error!
2005-10-12 19:56:51
104.   Jon T
Is this McClelland behind the plate in STL? He's starting to have an extremely low zone...
2005-10-12 19:57:24
105.   das411 that Cowboy Joe behind home plate?

None of those pitches are even close. Where is K-zone when you need it?

2005-10-12 19:58:46
106.   das411
2005-10-12 20:00:31
107.   natepurcell
i just put together the most solid 2006 dodger team on my excel worksheet!
2005-10-12 20:01:18
108.   das411
Um...that ball bounced up into his glove. Good call, no?
2005-10-12 20:01:42
109.   LAT
Seriously, I am embarrassed for Lou. I'm sure he knows more about baseball than Joe Buck and Tim McCarver, but he seems completely lost in the booth.
2005-10-12 20:03:00
110.   das411
ForStevens with a walk-off...single?

More drama for Jon, btw

2005-10-12 20:03:06
111.   Icaros
I win! 94
2005-10-12 20:03:16
112.   Jon T
Some serious umpiring questions so far this postseason...
2005-10-12 20:03:34
113.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, the Angels really, really, really, really, got (insert euphemism here) there.
2005-10-12 20:03:35
114.   LAT
108. I don't think so. Fox has shown it 100 times and the ball did not bounce. The Angels got screwed. I hate to see any game end like that.
2005-10-12 20:04:34
115.   fawnkyj
hey what are these guys blind??? The ball jumped up in to his glove from the dirt.

Am i the only one that saw this?

2005-10-12 20:04:46
116.   Mark
Absolutely inexcusable.

Instant reply in the postseason. Is it going to take an owner suing the league to get this to happen? What a joke...

2005-10-12 20:05:06
117.   regfairfield
113 Sad way for the game to end, but I see it as a delayed makeup call for the ALDS.
2005-10-12 20:05:44
118.   das411
115 - No, I think you're right, and so does most of Chicago
2005-10-12 20:06:47
119.   natepurcell
should i put konerko on my 2006 dodger team or are we confident the money could be better spent elsewhere?

question, would you rather have
kornerko for 4 yrs 46 mil
furcal for 4 yrs 32 mil


2005-10-12 20:06:51
120.   LAT
Have to give AJ credit. He completely manufactured that play and the stupid umpire bought it.
2005-10-12 20:07:34
121.   fawnkyj
Look again, if he had caught it cleanly it wouldve stayed in the glove were it was caught, it wouldve not jumped up which it did.
2005-10-12 20:08:04
122.   Bob Timmermann
Not only did the ball not bounce into Paul's glove, the umpire called Pierzynski out.

In a dropped third strike, the umpire waits to make the out signal until he sees the tag or play at first.

But Eddings didn't.

2005-10-12 20:09:27
123.   LAT
This is like an accident scene investigation. Fawnkyj, das411, McCarver and I all saw the same thing and yet, we can't agree on what we saw.
2005-10-12 20:09:31
124.   regfairfield
123 Even if the ball did bounce, Pierzynski was clearly called out by Eddings.
2005-10-12 20:09:41
125.   Todd
Bad call, terrible call. Lou was right. The home plate ump should have asked another ump...
2005-10-12 20:11:04
126.   LAT
Fawnkyj, I think the ball looked like it bounced because Paul's glove is under it.
2005-10-12 20:11:20
127.   das411
I think we can all agree with 120 either way though, who else on either team would even have thought to run to first?
2005-10-12 20:11:30
128.   Todd
120 Damn straight. AJ doesn't run, we're probably in the 10th or 11th now.
2005-10-12 20:11:54
129.   Romyrick
The ball bounced! Hilarious! I couldn't enjoy seeing the angels lose more.
2005-10-12 20:11:59
130.   D4P
Purcey - Why do you have us choosing between Konerko and Furcal? Do you think those are realistic Depo signings?
2005-10-12 20:12:09
131.   Jon T
I guess the Angels are even now.

122 - Eddings not only signaled Pierzynski out, he was emphatic in doing so; you could see Kennedy running in and telling him that he made the signal. The Angels are exhibit A in the argument for instant replay in the postseason.

2005-10-12 20:12:24
132.   regfairfield
So what are the odds that the Angels run to first after every strikeout in game three?
2005-10-12 20:12:36
133.   LAT
So does this motivate the Angels or does it take the wind out of their sails. Or does it make no diffrence and is just like any other loss?
2005-10-12 20:12:48
134.   fawnkyj
I think he was called struck out but not out.
They will show it again im sure and check to see, the ball was going down into the dirt but it does not stay down when it gets caught it jumps slighlty up in the glove.
2005-10-12 20:12:49
135.   das411
123 - I guess this means we call in the ultimate in cool-headed, impartial arbitrators. That's right, I am talking about...


2005-10-12 20:13:14
136.   Bob Timmermann
Priest: If men don't trust each other, this earth might as well be hell.
Commoner: Right. The world's a kind of hell.
Priest: No! I don't want to believe that!
Commoner: No one will hear you, no matter how loud you shout. Just think. Which one of these stories do you believe?
Woodcutter: None makes any sense.
Commoner: Don't worry about it. It isn't as if men were reasonable.
2005-10-12 20:13:17
137.   Jon T
Don Denkinger anyone?
2005-10-12 20:13:27
138.   LAT
Socia press confernce on ESPN
2005-10-12 20:13:52
139.   Steve
The umpires are bad? This is something we know something about.
2005-10-12 20:14:04
140.   Nagman
Definitely bounced but yeah, the glove might've been under it.

There was a pretty similar controversial play in the playoffs back in the 80's. I can't remember the exact team, but it involved a soft liner to the pitcher and you could not tell if the ball bounced off the dirt or bounced within the glove.

I seem to think the Phillies or Astros were involved, maybe KC.

2005-10-12 20:14:05
141.   natepurcell
Purcey - Why do you have us choosing between Konerko and Furcal? Do you think those are realistic Depo signings?

they could be. we have about 40 mil or so to spend this offseason to get into the 85-95 mil range. if depo doesnt do anything, he, along with Mccourt will get more crucified in the media.

2005-10-12 20:14:26
142.   confucius
122. Bob I think you're right. I don't know what the official rule is, but wether the ball hits the ground or does not should not matter once the umpire says out. Players quit playing when they see the out called.

Like in football when someone fumbles and the whistle is blown, you can't go back and change the call because everyone quit on the ball.

2005-10-12 20:14:37
143.   Bob Timmermann
Eddings makes first a call that it's a strike. Then he stops and makes an out signal. Two motions.

I think we need the Zapruder film to come up with the truth.

2005-10-12 20:15:34
144.   fawnkyj
forget either of those 2 guys and lets land the big bat of Reggie Sanders & trade for Huff or Overbay, whichever comes cheaper.

Im serious.

2005-10-12 20:16:57
145.   das411
But Paul didn't throw down to first at all, which would have eliminated all doubt for anyone.

Are the umpires allowed to comment on this?

2005-10-12 20:17:19
146.   natepurcell
forget either of those 2 guys and lets land the big bat of Reggie Sanders & trade for Huff or Overbay, whichever comes cheaper.

beane is getting huff in my fantasy 3 way trade (with us netting zito).

overbay wont be traded for anything short of billingsley. Sanders, well maybe, but hes probably staying with the cards.

2005-10-12 20:17:21
147.   D4P
I don't really see Depo going after a first baseman or a shortstop. I think he'll be content to let Choi, Saenz?, Kent?, Perez, Robles, Izturis, Aybar, etc. cover those positions.
2005-10-12 20:17:33
148.   LAT
If Molina is behind the plate do the Angels get the call?
2005-10-12 20:17:41
149.   Bob Timmermann
Game 4 of the NLCS Philadelphia at Houston

PHILLIES 4TH: McBride singled to left; Trillo singled to left
[McBride to second]; Maddox lined into a double play (pitcher to
first) [Trillo out at first]; Bowa grounded out (second to
first); 0 R, 2 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Phillies 0, Astros 0.

The bold part probably should have been a triple play.

2005-10-12 20:17:59
150.   Todd
137 Denkinger, that's what I was thinking....
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-12 20:18:11
151.   Strike4
What's a catcher to do? The umpire clearly signals out. Apparently, the catcher will need to tag the batter on every swinging strikeout.
Give Peirzynski credit for totally manufacturing the win. Even the Angels won't win too many games scoring only one run.
2005-10-12 20:18:13
152.   das411
Ozzie live press conference.

Don't ask me what he's saying though.

2005-10-12 20:18:29
153.   Bob Timmermann

The umpires will be asked about the play. I think they use a pool reporter. Joe West was interviewed after Monday.

2005-10-12 20:18:58
154.   Steve
Explain for those of us putting our kids to bed.
2005-10-12 20:20:26
155.   trainwreck
Honestly I do not think we need either Furcal or Konerko. Rather use money on players we can acquire in a trade or on someone like Matsui or Giles or a starter.
2005-10-12 20:20:45
156.   Jon T
141 - Couldn't you just see the Orioles giving Konerko like 6 years, 60 mil.? As for Furcal, I'd rather talk to the Yankees first about unloading that un-clutch 3B they have and moving him back to SS...
2005-10-12 20:21:31
157.   Bob Timmermann
Two outs. None on.
Pierzynski swings and misses at a low pitch from Escobar. Pretty much everyone thinks that it's strike three and end of the inning. But Pierzynski decides to run to first. But Paul (in for JMolina) rolls the ball back to first as he thinks the inning is over. But home plate umpire Eddings rules that the ball bounced (the crux of the issue). Ozuna runs for Pierzysnki, steals second and scores on a double by Crede.
2005-10-12 20:21:48
158.   regfairfield
154 There's a ball that almost hits the ground that Pierzynski swings at for strike three. Umpire clearly calls him out and Paul rolls the ball back to the mound as the Angels head back to the dugout.

Piersynski starts to head back to the dugout, then sprints to first where he is called safe.

2005-10-12 20:21:58
159.   Todd
144 I like the Huff idea. Don't see why we should get Overbay when we have Hee Seop though.
2005-10-12 20:22:50
160.   sanchez101
146. what about julio lugo? He was a better hitter than furcal and is a good defender. Id rather trade for him than outbid a dozen teams for furcal.
2005-10-12 20:23:03
161.   Steve
If the umpire really called him out, then that's the bushiest of bush league nonsense that I've probably ever heard, even worse than when that AAA umpire threw out Penny for yelling at no one in particular.
2005-10-12 20:23:40
162.   Jon T
155 - I'd take Matsui; he might come a little cheaper now since everyone thinks he stinks when the pressure's on.

Anyone know what DePo plans on doing with the great Joel Guzman (SS vs. elsewhere)?

2005-10-12 20:24:04
163.   Todd
2045 we'll be talking about this play.
2005-10-12 20:24:14
164.   LAT
Does the same crew work the rest of the series? If so the Angels should get some make-up calls in game three. (I don't mean to imply an intentional make-up call. Just the umps thinking they better not screw the Angels again).
2005-10-12 20:24:15
165.   Nagman
149 Thanks, Bob. That was a great series.
2005-10-12 20:24:42
166.   das411
Ooh, my turn!
Two out, two strikes, Pierzynski swings at a split that just barely bounces into Paul's glove. AJ turns toward the dugout, ump signals strike, Paul rolls the ball to the mound instead of tagging the runner, AJ runs to first because he did not see or hear an out call, Angels infielders are confused as Pierzynski reaches 1B safely.
2005-10-12 20:25:57
167.   Steve
The umpires just make random calls, making safe calls at the same rate as the league average.
2005-10-12 20:25:57
168.   Telemachos
On Sportscenter, Pierzynski said that (a) the same play happened to him, in reverse, in SF last year, when he was catching and (b) he never heard the ump call him out.
2005-10-12 20:26:13
169.   Todd
I think the Angels will actually win the series regardless 4-2 and this'll prove immaterial. Just a hunch. OK, so scratch that 2045 remark.
2005-10-12 20:26:54
170.   regfairfield
166 I don't even know if the issue should be whether or not the ball bounced. (It looks like it can go either way, depending on what I'm looking for) my main issue is that Pierzynski was clearly called out by Eddings.

And this is coming from someone who hates the Angels with a passion.

2005-10-12 20:26:58
171.   Romyrick
If the ball hits the ground infront of the catcher, how is the homeplate ump suppossed to see that?

Shouldnt the "out" be the 1st/2nd/3rd base umpires call?

2005-10-12 20:27:35
172.   natepurcell
Honestly I do not think we need either Furcal or Konerko. Rather use money on players we can acquire in a trade or on someone like Matsui or Giles or a starter.

giles is already factored into my "Plan of success for 2006 dodgers" excel worksheet.

2005-10-12 20:27:46
173.   Steve
Bob, would calling it a strike have the same effect as calling him out?
2005-10-12 20:27:54
174.   das411
Is this gonna be like that Dolphins game a few years ago when they called everyone back in their underwear to try a FG or something?

Kruk seems like he's blaming Paul, since nobody heard anything from the umpire. Reynolds thinks he heard the ball hit the glove and thought it was the ball hitting the ground. Ravech "promises" we will hear from Eddings.

2005-10-12 20:29:05
175.   sanchez101
162. The chances that Matsui will be a free agent are slim.

Logan White intimated that Guzman would have to play himself off of SS. The problem with Guzman the SS is his "projection". Scouts say that as he fills out his 6'6'' frame, he wont be able to make the plays to be a major league SS. But right now, he good enough considering his age and experience. I think the Dodgers will wait until Guzman is to big to play the position; Jeters defense didnt keep the Yankees from winning 4 championships.

2005-10-12 20:29:42
176.   Steve
Well, we know Paul's in the clear.
2005-10-12 20:30:14
177.   Bob Timmermann

No. I just read some web things on what umpires are supposed to say in that situation.

They are supposed to say "Strike Three".

They don't say "He's out" until he's out.

I never seen the call on a pitch in the dirt being caught called by an umpire on the bases. I've also never seen a play be in doubt like that before either.

2005-10-12 20:30:20
178.   fawnkyj
I like Matsui but i was thinking that with all the young guys coming up who is gonna be the veteran guy they can go to. Kent? Yeah right. Thats why i like Sanders or even Giles but i really dont think Giles is coming to LA. Okay nix the Overbay idea and bring in Huff who can also play 1st if Choi can't hold it down.

I doubt that Guzman plays SS in the bigs, i think its very telling that his AA coach played him at DH in the playoffs.

2005-10-12 20:30:28
179.   LAT
Stewart Scott is singing songs from Wicked while doing highlights of the Cards game. It so wrong.
2005-10-12 20:31:15
180.   Todd
174 Great incisive analysis from Krukkie as usual...."yeah, so then we figured that if Mike Brown had been catching, the ump would have gotten the call right."
2005-10-12 20:31:43
181.   sanchez101
172. I dont see Giles coming to the Dodgers. I cant see the Padres loosing him to a division rival, they'd overpay to keep him from coming moving north to Chavez Ravine.
2005-10-12 20:31:44
182.   natepurcell
I doubt that Guzman plays SS in the bigs, i think its very telling that his AA coach played him at DH in the playoffs.

he played DH and SS in the playoffs.

2005-10-12 20:31:44
183.   Todd
Eddings you're doing a heck of a job!
2005-10-12 20:32:19
184.   regfairfield
Angel talk will be good fun.
2005-10-12 20:32:36
185.   confucius
Controversy keeps me alive.
2005-10-12 20:32:55
186.   LAT
Eddings on espn now
2005-10-12 20:33:15
187.   regfairfield
183 I think you need to call him "Eddingsy" to really complete the joke.
2005-10-12 20:33:15
188.   Langhorne
The umpire didn't call AJ out. The first motion (arm straight out) was to indicate no foul tip. The second motion was to indicate a strike, not an out. That said, I don't think the ball hit the ground. But it's a tough call from anywhere except on slo-mo replay from the living room couch. A veteran catcher doesn't let that play happen.
2005-10-12 20:33:17
189.   Bob Timmermann
Eddings said he made his typical swinging strike call.
2005-10-12 20:34:27
190.   das411
YES! Eddings: "You can see that the ball changes direction, so I don't see how you can say it's a caught ball"
2005-10-12 20:34:53
191.   Bob Timmermann
Josh Paul has played in the majors for seven years (granted not much). I think he's got enough experience.
2005-10-12 20:34:55
192.   regfairfield
188 This is at least Paul's 8th year.

And he's writing a book about catching.

2005-10-12 20:35:22
193.   Steve
I can hardly wait to get ESPN on.
2005-10-12 20:35:56
194.   Todd
I > I heard that Guzman hadn't stopped growing. I grew an inch when I was 22...maybe that's not normal..if so....well, I'd have to agree I feel Guzman would be better suited in the OF or at 1B than SS.
2005-10-12 20:36:19
195.   Bob Timmermann
Eddings is making a good case for himself. He's not defensive at all.
2005-10-12 20:36:27
196.   das411
...who are the other two guys? Crew chief maybe?
2005-10-12 20:36:53
197.   Romyrick
I hate Plascke
2005-10-12 20:37:06
198.   Bob Timmermann
One guy is the supervisor of umpires. The other guy is the crew chief, Jerry Crawford, Shag's son.
2005-10-12 20:37:17
199.   LAT
HOw can eddings see the ball change direction from behind the plate. he may have seen it after in the truck, but at the time there is no way he sees it.
2005-10-12 20:37:54
200.   Todd
Oops, I wrote I thought I'd heard that Guzman hadn't stopped growing.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-10-12 20:38:22
201.   sanchez101
Why was Paul catching anyway? Isnt Jose Molina the backup catcher?
2005-10-12 20:38:37
202.   Bob Timmermann
I would be more upset about it, but I must admit that tonight's game would have been long forgotten in the sands of time if not for Pierzynski's strikeout followed by Paul's "throwing" error.
2005-10-12 20:39:13
203.   Bob Timmermann
Bengie started at DH. Jose started at catcher and DaVanon ran for him.
2005-10-12 20:39:20
204.   sanchez101
197. You're in the right place.
2005-10-12 20:39:22
205.   Jon T
194 - If Guzman switches positions, he can't go to 1B with Loney there and less OF depth on the farm, right?
2005-10-12 20:40:46
206.   LAT
197. Was that just a ransom thought or has Bill blessed us with new piece?
2005-10-12 20:40:51
207.   fawnkyj
I remember he Shoemaker also brought Garcia to replace Joel a couple of times in the field late in the game.

Either way i really think Hu is the future at short.

2005-10-12 20:40:55
208.   das411
199 - This may be why he didnt say anything. It sounds to me like he held off on an out call (verbally) because he couldn't see the ball but heard it hit the ground. Whether it did or not is irrelevant if Paul throws to first or tags Pierzynski, or if AJ walks back to the dugout and starts throwing things.

I think this was a call that could have gone either way, but was called properly, and the Sox deserve a lot of credit for taking advantage of it.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong 8-)

2005-10-12 20:41:34
209.   Telemachos
I also think it's somewhat karmic, given the Angels reaped the benefit of a couple of calls in the ALDS.
2005-10-12 20:42:33
210.   sanchez101
194. I dont think Guzman is still growing vertically. The issue is how much he will fill out. There were concerns about ARod at the same age, but ARod is a workout freak and can pull it off.
2005-10-12 20:43:39
211.   LAT
After watching the highlights I realized the Angles were lucky to be in a tie game in the 9th. They really didn't play very well.
2005-10-12 20:43:50
212.   Romyrick
While i do say "I hate Plascke" at random points of the day this time there was a reason for it.

Plascke was the one asking the annoying questions at the press confrence in his typical condescending way.

2005-10-12 20:43:50
213.   Jon T
On a totally unrelated note, I didn't notice many Prisonbreak promos tonight...
2005-10-12 20:44:42
214.   Bob Timmermann
Since Eddings said that he didn't say "out", then for all the Angels complaining, he could have waved a bunch of flags in semaphore and Pierzynski still wouldn't have been out.

The Angels still have to be happy with a split and getting to face Jon Garland in Game 3.

2005-10-12 20:45:08
215.   sanchez101
206. One of the questions posed in the Edding press confrence had Plascke's distinctive lisp. It was a dumb question too, the umpire tersely answered him.
2005-10-12 20:45:24
216.   Telemachos
A couple of additional points (at least, from what I heard on the radio). One, that Eddings checked with the third base ump to confirm that the ball hit the ground.

Secondly, despite the call, there is still only a runner on first with 2 out. Get the next batter, and it's all immaterial.

From what I've seen and heard, it seems like the umps made the "correct" (rulebook) decision. Whether the rulebook should be amended is another question, I suppose.

2005-10-12 20:46:53
217.   Steve
1) The ball didn't bounce. That "change" of direction is the ball stopping in the glove.

2) I have no sympathy for any team that gives up an 0-2 game winning hit to Joe Crede. None.

2005-10-12 20:49:04
218.   trainwreck
Just think though how great a value Guzman would be if he stayed a shortstop. Just because he is tall does not mean he can not play the position. He just has to be really agile and quick.
2005-10-12 20:49:31
219.   zappala
My inclination is that Eddings shouldn't make the call unless it is an obvious dropped third strike or obviously hits the ground. We can argue the replays left and right, but there's no way that the ump sees that as an obvious dropped strike. Unless it's obvious, he shouldn't be making that call.

Either way, Paul should have tagged the batter if he didn't hear a verbal "out" call, and I'm guessing this starts getting stressed.

2005-10-12 20:52:17
220.   Todd
I think the California Angels will win the series regardless of all this....
2005-10-12 20:52:55
221.   LAT
Is it legal for AJ to take few steps to the dug out and then run to first. I'll have to watch it again (I'm sure it will be shown a couple thousand more times) but I think he walked across the plate and then turned around and went to first.
2005-10-12 20:53:36
222.   Steve
It's too bad Paul didn't throw to first and have Pyrhackski thrown out when he turned aggressively to second. That would have been fun.
2005-10-12 20:53:52
223.   sanchez101
My two cents: That was a terrible call; even if the "change of direction" was a bounce in the dirt, how can Eddings see it? No way he "hears" it bounce. Besides, replays show that Paul caught the ball.
But if this had to happen to one team, im very happy that it happened to the Angels. Ha Ha Ha
2005-10-12 20:54:48
224.   Nagman
Do you think they could've looked at the ball? Scuffed or not? Not sure how much of a scuff there'd be.
2005-10-12 20:55:39
225.   Todd
219 I'm sure that in many obvious strikeout calls, the ump barely bothers to call someone out officially. This goes back to 120.
2005-10-12 20:55:45
226.   sanchez101
218. That what ive been saying. Even if his defense is below average, if he puts up a 850 OPS, who cares? Jeters defense didnt prevent the Yankees from winning 95 games a year.
2005-10-12 20:56:33
227.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, it is. However, if Pierzynski had walked back to the dugout, he would have been out.

Anyone remember the end of the 1981 Division Series against the Astros. Houston pinch hitter Dave Roberts struck out on a pitch in the dirt. The ball got past Scioscia and rolled a far bit. But Roberts didn't notice and was on his way back to the dugout. Roberts tried to make it back to first, but Scioscia threw him out.

Much jubilation ensued in Los Angeles.

2005-10-12 20:57:13
228.   Telemachos
224 According to the Angel radio broadcast I was listening to, Eddings did check the ball for scuffmarks.
2005-10-12 20:59:36
229.   das411
Maybe they should check the ball for shoe polish.


2005-10-12 21:00:56
230.   King of the Hobos
Switching to the Dodgers...

Laroche, Kemp, and Abreu are batting 7-8-9. Through 6 innings, they're 3-5 with a walk and a sacrafice 89and a Laroche DP). The rest of the team is 1-13 (with 5 walks)

2005-10-12 21:01:39
231.   trainwreck
Nate, I am very interested to see who you have as our starters for your 2006 excel sheet.
2005-10-12 21:03:07
232.   sanchez101
Does it seem like the Angels have been involved in a lot of bizarre situations this year: Donnolly's illegal substance, Francisco Rodriguez' missed catch against the A's, now this?
2005-10-12 21:04:28
233.   sanchez101
230. How has Greg Miller looked so far in the AFL?
2005-10-12 21:06:42
234.   Uncle Miltie
Did anyone hear Plascke at the press conference? You would think that he was an Angels employee...oh wait...never mind
2005-10-12 21:07:41
235.   fawnkyj
Miller has looked good, he has the 3rd lowest era on the team behind a reliever and Shields a starter from tampa.
2005-10-12 21:08:19
236.   Bob Timmermann
I have a feeling that Plaschke won't be getting a Christmas card from Doug Eddings.

In the end, I think Eddings made an incorrect call because Paul caught the ball cleanly ... BUT ... the way he explained what he did clearly indicated that he was following the rules.

2005-10-12 21:10:17
237.   King of the Hobos
Miller has pitched 3 innings, has 4 Ks, 2 BBs, and has allowed 3 hits for a run. Not bad at all for the AFL (last year the league ERA was well north of 5.00)

Today's Wednesday, so Loney has a chance to appear at some point

2005-10-12 21:10:43
238.   sanchez101
234. Plascke's next article will be how Eddings used a spreadsheet to make the call, and it doesnt matter because McCourt is cheap. Alex Cora wouldve made the right call.
2005-10-12 21:13:36
239.   dzzrtRatt
This episode is a little nick in Scioscia's managerial reputation.

If anyone should know what they're doing, it's a catcher for the Angels. Bengie is probably the AL's best, or top three anyway, and Scioscia's part of that. But somehow Josh Paul hasn't learned that you can't be so casual about your job. Under these circumstances, a ball that might not of bounced but was caught a few centimeters off the ground, why not tag AJ, just to be on the safe side? The ump might've technically blown the call, but his angle on a ball like that is poor, and the catcher should realize there's a risk of a mistake; a mistake that costs your team, not the ump.

2005-10-12 21:15:55
240.   zappala
An easy solution here is a consistent set of calls from umps, unambiguous differences between third strike versus out, and VERY clear call for a dropped third strike (as Eddings himself used for the batter BEFORE AJ). A clear case for better umpiring.
2005-10-12 21:21:52
241.   Uncle Miltie
Angels Done in by Umpire
By Bill Plaschke

There was the gutsy performance by the sick veteran left hander.

A clutch home run by the young rookie (yes I know he's not a rookie).

The superb management of the bullpen by a tremendous manager.

They gritted, they clawed, they dirtied their uniforms, they showed the heart of champions, but it wasn't enough.

Their quest for a championship was interrupted by a man who was in his diapers when Mike Scioscia was leading the 1988 Dodgers to a magical run.

Doug Eddings was the culprit.

A shame, indeed----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That should fill 2 pages in the newspaper.

2005-10-12 21:22:06
242.   808Bears
The reason you don't tag the batter/runner if you've actually caught the ball is because going for the tag projects that you think you didn't catch it cleanly. It's the same situation as a swipe tag, or a play where the pitcher covering first has to find the bag with his foot. If you go back and try to tag someone again, or if you try to blindly search for the bag again with your foot, it tells the whole world that you -- the very person who knows what happened the best -- don't think that you made the play.
Granted, in this case, Paul could have very easily tagged out AJ with very little risk of him being safe, but you don't go to make a play on a runner that's already out.
Body language is important, and umpires and fielders both are taught or learn that 'selling' calls / plays projects confidence. I'm not entirely certain that Eddings wasn't influenced just a little bit by AJ deciding to run to first for no good reason.
2005-10-12 21:27:26
243.   Steve
My wife says it didn't bounce. Good enough for me.
2005-10-12 21:36:28
244.   dzzrtRatt
It didn't bounce. But if ballplayers play the game on the assumption that all umpire calls are perfect, things like this will happen. What should be, sometimes isn't.

I get the point about body language and selling the play, but it doesn't apply to this situation. There is no possible negative consequence of Paul tagging AJ. The umpire's not going to decide it wasn't really a strike. I know I've seen catchers tag a guy who was already called out. Nobody throws tomatoes. It's just insurance.

2005-10-12 21:59:02
245.   King of the Hobos has an article on the Trammell interview

The interview happened, for those that feared Trammell would get stuck in traffic or have a cold and miss it. There's no other information

2005-10-12 22:04:12
246.   trainwreck
Guess who is interviewing with the As...
A's to interview Hershiser for managerial opening


Star-Telegram Staff Writer

While the Los Angeles Angels and the Chicago White Sox battle for American League supremacy, other teams are getting ready for next season.

The Oakland Athletics are looking for a new manager and have received permission to interview Rangers pitching coach Orel Hershiser.

The Athletics are also considering two from their own coaching staff: third-base coach Ron Washington and bullpen coach Bob Geren.

The job came open when former manager Ken Macha and general manager Billy Beane couldn't come to an agreement on a new contact at the end of the season.

Hershiser has spent the past 3 1/2 seasons as the Rangers pitching coach but has made it clear that he would like to eventually move into a position of leadership, either as a manager or general manager.

Hershiser is unsigned as pitching coach and is expected to meet with general manager Jon Daniels on Thursday to discuss his situation.

Hershiser is also expected to attend the organizational meetings next week in Arizona but will likely interview with the Athletics at some point early in the week.

"I want to be around people who have high aspirations," Hershiser said. "This is just a normal part of life in baseball. These opportunities come up from time to time, but I'm still excited about the opportunity to still be the Rangers' pitching coach."

If he leaves, bullpen coach Mark Connor and minor league pitching coordinator Rick Adair would be candidates to be the Rangers' next pitching coach.

2005-10-12 22:08:46
247.   bigcpa
240 Great catch on the Rowand strikeout- I just watched the replay. Eddings clearly held back on the fist pump until the tag was made. So the fist pump is not "Strike 3"- it has to be "Out." So as said in 142 the Angels were justified in leaving the field after the OUT call was emphatically made.

Side question on 142 - what happens when an umpire rules a guy out on a SB attempt but later sees the ball was dropped, then changes the call to safe. But the runner hears the out call, walks off the bag and is tagged out again. Don't they let the guy stay put due to umpire error?

2005-10-12 22:12:11
248.   Bob Timmermann
"Two outs when winning run scored"
2005-10-12 22:12:23
249.   dzzrtRatt
Always run. Always tag. Words to live by.
2005-10-12 22:17:41
250.   Bob Timmermann
E - Paul 1 (missed catch)
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-10-12 22:18:13
251.   popup
I am not a big proponent of changing the rules in baseball, but I have never thought that the rule in question makes much sense. If the batter swings at a pitch it should be a strike; if it is the third strike he should be out. That would solve the situation that happened tonight and the other night with Cano.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-12 22:20:03
252.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, Stan but the rule about catching the third strike has been in baseball pretty much forever. It's one of the games oldest rules. It's from before the Civil War.

The 3-foot lane rule however was not instituted until 1882.

2005-10-12 22:21:21
253.   King of the Hobos
It's over in the desert (after a lengthy Gameday delay...)

Laroche 1-4, SB, GIDP
Kemp 2-3, BB
Abreu 2-2, BB, sacrifice

2005-10-12 22:25:14
254.   Bob Timmermann
Not only did the postgame press conference feature the umpires, it also featured a lengthy Q&A with Josh Paul, which will likely be the only time in that guy's career he will be in the spotlight.

Which is sort of sad.

His NY Times obituary headline is already written.

"Josh Paul, 83, made error in baseball playoffs on strikeout"

2005-10-12 22:26:18
255.   das411
And what would Chris Burke's obituary have said between innings 10 and 18 Bob? ;-)
2005-10-12 22:42:49
256.   natepurcell
my 2006 payroll total is 91 million for the 25 man roster.

too much?? just right? should be more?

2005-10-12 22:43:53
257.   Bob Timmermann
"Chris Burke, 87, hit playoff series winning homer in extra innings."
2005-10-12 22:48:18
258.   popup
Bob, I realize it is an ancient rule. I have the utmost respect for Alexander Cartwright. I am willing to believe Cartwright was operating with what must have been devine inspiration when he set up the game. But I don't think the third strike rule is the part of any master plan.

Make me baseball commissioner and I will do away with the dh and the third strike rule. I will also retroactively declare the Dodgers champions in 1941 (and any other year I can plausibly get away with).

What a wimpy way to reach first base. Heinrich and AJ should be embarrased.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-12 22:49:40
259.   Bob Timmermann
At least Mickey Owen had the decency to actually not catch the third strike.
2005-10-12 22:56:34
260.   das411
For anyone that somehow hasn't seen this call yet, link here:

Looking at it almost frame by frame, it looks to me like the ball bounces at :53 and again (same bounce) at :59 but everyone is free to interpret it as they see fit.

That includes Eddings.

Meanwhile, I think the rest of this series will turn out to be just about that close. We've already seen some great baseball and at the very least we will get 3 more games in each series. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show folks.

2005-10-12 23:08:28
261.   Bob Timmermann
So, you have the Zapruder film of "The Strikeout" or "Paul's Peril"?

Next thing you know you're going to say Joe Crede hit a magic baseball that went through Kelvim Escobar's neck and landed on the left field fence in pristine condition!

2005-10-13 00:13:25
262.   fanerman
Off topic, but anybody know any reliable sites on "expert" football picks... week by week. Not just against the spread, but who wins the game?
2005-10-13 00:53:14
263.   Uncle Miltie
Angel beat writer Bill Plaschke has written a new article. Has there ever been another writer in history who has written shorter paragraphs than this:
" Safe, Eddings ruled.



2005-10-13 07:27:40
264.   Steelyeri
Thanks for the link to the clip. I agree, It looks like the ball hit the ground. There was no leather between the ball and the dirt like the announcers claimed. Just my opinion.
It's funny that Angel fans are handling this so poorly. I was listening to Angel Talk last night on my way home from school and the hosts were being beligerent to anyone who didn't agree that the call was a bad one. Those guys are such homers. It was comical really. They told one guy that he didn't know anything about baseball and they called pierzinsky a cheater. Those guys are idiots.
2005-10-13 07:34:28
265.   Bob Timmermann
I would think that only the most magnanimous of baseball fans would not get upset if their team lost a game as the Angels did Wednesday night.
2005-10-13 07:59:17
266.   Steelyeri
I agree that they have a right to be upset. I just think the hosts of Angel Talk were being very unprofessional and very biased. They were hanging up on people and insulting them, that was what my objection was about.

Tom Verducci wrote a pretty good piece about the incident...

"Maybe he did catch the ball. Maybe he didn't. Molina said a replay showed Paul caught the ball. Pierzynski said the replay showed the ball bounced. Umpire supervisor Rich Reiker watched it frame by frame with the picture blown up and concluded "there was definitely a change in direction there. At this point I would say at best it's inconclusive."

I agree with Reiker. I saw a slight change of direction. I would say it bounced. Bottom line: in no way was it obvious that Paul caught the ball cleanly. And that means Paul had no business assuming it is a third strike. He has to tag the hitter, or at least wait for confirmation."

2005-10-13 08:02:40
267.   LAT
If the Dodgers had been on the wrong end of that call, this site would explode. Jon would have to but a new server to keep up with the posts and you could forget about the profanity rule. I can't blame Angel fans for being upset.
2005-10-13 08:25:28
268.   Kayaker7
The rule that the 3rd strike has to be caught is dumb. It may be ancient, but dumb.

As for the catch, the ball bounced, but the leather of the glove was clearly between the ground and the ball.

2005-10-13 08:32:05
269.   Curtis Lowe
I dont know what all this conjecture about the ball movig before it was in the glove is for, Its clear that the movement was caused when the ball first touched the glove. Thats why theres no dirt displacement and why the ball only moved about 4 or 5 cm, anyone saying it hit dirt would probably also argue a stop sign isnt red.
2005-10-13 08:43:59
270.   blue22
To me, the argument of whether it did or did not hit the ground is irrelevant. It was close enough that the umpire made a judgment call.

The more important argument is what the umpire did afterwards, making an out call and such.

Umps make bad calls all the time on bang-bang plays. Slowing it down frame by frame won't do anything to change the call. It's what happened as a result of the call that I would be upset with if I were an Angels fan. But if the ump is able to explain away his hand gestures, then so be it.

2005-10-13 08:49:38
271.   Kayaker7
270 But if the ump is able to explain away his hand gestures, then so be it.

This is another thing that is dumb about baseball. It doesn't seem like there is a set standard for hand signals. As a kid, I always thought outs were indicated with a thumbs up sign with an up and over the shoulder movement, but I have never seen an umpire use that gesture.

Do it like football. Have all the umpire do the same thing. The silly gymnastics that each umpire customizes for strike three outs is ridiculous.

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