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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Sunday Playoff Open Chat
2005-10-16 11:38
by Jon Weisman
Comments (295)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-16 11:51:42
1.   LAT
Bob, very exciting news for you: D'Backs interviewing Bowden for GM spot. Russ Ortiz and Bowden on the same team. What could be better than that?

There is speculation the D'Backs have become unhappy with Glaus and will try and shop him. Dodgers could use a 3B with power but I don't think he is the answer.

2005-10-16 11:53:36
2.   trainwreck
Any chance Bowden would trade away all their young hitting talent? If only Sabean would go GM for them.
2005-10-16 12:06:54
3.   popup
Remembering Sandy:

Despite only two days rest after his complete game victory in game five, Sandy Koufax started game seven of the 1965 World Series against the Minnesota Twins. He pitched another complete game shutout.

The Dodgers scored the only run Sandy needed in the 4th when Lou Johnson hit a solo homerun off the left field foulpole. Ron Fairly followed with a double and Wes Parker singled Fairly home for an insurance run.

The Twins threatened in the 5th. Frank Quilici doubled with one out. Sandy walked Rich Rollins to bring Zolio Versalles to the plate. Versalles hit a smash down the third base line for what looked like a sure double. Jim Gilliam knocked the ball down and scrambled to his feet to force Quilici at third. Joe Nossek grounded to Maury Wills at short to end the inning.

In the 9th Harmon Killebrew reached on a one out single. With the tying run at the plate, Sandy finished the game with a flourish by striking out Earl Battey and Bob Allison.

In game 7 Sandy gave up 3 hits and 3 walks en route to a complete game 2-0 victory. He struck out 10 and, as was the case in his complete game shutout in game five, no Twins runner advanced past second base. His cumulative totals in the 1965 World Series: 13 hits in 24 innings pitched, 2 wins, 1 loss 1 earned run allowed, 5 walks and 29 strikeouts.

Thanks to retrosheet.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-16 12:24:11
4.   King of the Hobos
2 Problem is Bowden loves toolsey OFs, and they make up half of Arizona's prospects. The other half is middle infield prospects, which we have plenty of (although I'd like to reunite the Drew brothers, we could even sign Tim if we must)

Repko for Drew (or Quentin)? I can dream...

2005-10-16 12:26:45
5.   King of the Hobos
From LAT:

"If the Yankees and Hideki Matsui do not agree on a contract extension by midnight Nov. 15, Matsui will become a free agent. He has said that he would prefer to remain with the Yankees, and the Yankees remain interested, though reports they have already offered their left fielder a three-year extension worth about $35 million are erroneous. As a free agent, Matsui is believed to be most interested in staying in New York, with the Yankees or the Mets, or coming to Los Angeles to play for the Dodgers. He probably will seek a deal of more than three years."

Brown also mentions that the Dodgers could go after Nomah. Matsui has said that Torre could be the reason he stays or goes, so I guess I'm rooting for Piniella to manage the Yankees

2005-10-16 12:30:16
6.   D4P
I don't really see Depo going after Matsui or Nomah. Let someone else overpay for overpaid, overrated players.
2005-10-16 12:35:50
7.   trainwreck
Well if Giles re-signs with Padres, which I think is likely, then Matsui is a nice alternative. I do think however that DePo would be reluctant to spend that much on Matsui.
2005-10-16 12:37:46
8.   Romyrick
Nomar can't cost much can he?
2005-10-16 12:39:48
9.   D4P
Yeah. Isn't Matsui asking for more/year than Depo gave Drew? I can't see Depo valuing Matsui more than Drew. I think Depo would be content with Cruz Jr., Bradley, and Drew in the outfield, with Werth, Ledee, and Repko backing them up.
2005-10-16 12:45:24
10.   Bob Timmermann
Nomar would cost a bit, but it would be just for one year I assume.
2005-10-16 12:45:46
11.   MikeB
I like the idea of signing Nomar. He's got a lot to prove, and may sign for a short-term contract or a home-town discount. Put him at 3B.
2005-10-16 12:46:54
12.   trainwreck
Who knows if we keep Cruz, but I do think you are right about spending a lot on an outfielder. I am kind of worried we will not be able to do much in the off-season. Of the few decent free agents out there they all seem to want to re-sign with their teams. DePo also seems reluctant to trade away much of the minor league talent.
2005-10-16 12:51:58
13.   Bob Timmermann
Nunez and Sanders are out for the Cardinals today. Or at least not starting.

Could it be that the last game at Busch has already been played?

2005-10-16 12:52:19
14.   MikeB
Bob's idea is a good one. Sign Nomar to a short term contract - one or two years. Go hard after Millwood AND Burnett. We need pitching!
2005-10-16 12:53:25
15.   D4P
Agreed. I suspect 2006 will be another "Profess publicly a commitment to being competitive this year while privately not caring enough about competing this year to warrant jeopardizing 2007 and beyond."

This attitude didn't seem too costly in 2005, as the team made a profit despite a terrible record. We'll see if the 2006 ticket buyers will be as excited coming off the 2005 season as the 2005 ticket buyers were coming off the 2004 season.

2005-10-16 12:54:29
16.   Bob Timmermann
I would try to give Nomar a less than one year contract. Can't the Dodgers give him one of those NBA 10-day contracts?
2005-10-16 12:55:01
17.   trainwreck
I definitely think Millwood is someone we would go after, but I think I read somewhere that people thought he was going to re-sign with Cleveland. Burnett would be sweet to get, but there is going to be a huge bidding war with him and he is going to get paid a lot and the Dodgers I do not think will want anything to do with giving him 11 million a season.
2005-10-16 12:59:59
18.   xaphor

The media has started dissecting what the Angels need to do this off season starting with overhauling the majority of the roster. You know, the same thing the Dodgers did last year and are being crucified for now (and we only won one game). I think I am going to have an aneurism.

2005-10-16 13:00:52
19.   MikeB
16. Sorry Bob. That would violate the terms of the Basic Agreement. Minimum contract length must be for a minium of one "standard" season. And players cannot have their salary cut beyond 20% from the previous season.
2005-10-16 13:01:50
20.   trainwreck
I can not wait to hear Plaschke explain how the Angels made all the right moves in getting new players.
2005-10-16 13:02:36
21.   Bob Timmermann
Couldn't a player have his salary go down by more than 20% if his contract expired? Let's say I'm Darren Dreifort and I want to go back to the majors. Does some team have to pay him his same salary even though he wouldn't be worth it?

I thought the 20% cut was for players who weren't arbitration eligible.

2005-10-16 13:03:18
22.   xaphor
Haven't seen this posted yet:

Dodgers to interview Pendleton, via

2005-10-16 13:03:41
23.   trainwreck
Can not be 20% less than previous season wow that is some junk.
2005-10-16 13:04:08
24.   Bob Timmermann
I wonder if Plaschke has come back to Anaheim for tonight's game. He was in South Bend yesterday. He would likely just want to stay there in case the Angels won today because then they will be flying right back to where he is.
2005-10-16 13:07:06
25.   MikeB
21. Here's the link to the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) in PDF format. I'm not a lawyer, but it appears to me that the 20% limit is legit.
2005-10-16 13:08:28
26.   D4P
"I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on DT."
2005-10-16 13:14:38
27.   Bob Timmermann
I read that section and I'm pretty sure that applies to players whose contracts can be renewed automatically. For example, the Dodgers can't cut Brazoban's salary more than 20%.

Garciaparra's salary for 2004 was $11.5 million. His 2005 salary was $8.25 million, which is a cut of more than 20%.

2005-10-16 13:17:19
28.   MikeB
27. Bob. I stand corrected. Thanks for translating that stuff into English. ;>)
2005-10-16 13:20:28
29.   xaphor
More reading material to by the time:

"At 73, Podres can still see '55 series," via The Mercury News. Registration required, I recomend:

2005-10-16 13:21:52
30.   das411
Wow, I'm not sure who had a worse loss just now, the Stillers or New Orleans.

22 - Pendleton seemed to really really impress everybody last year when he interviewed in Philly. Too bad they had already made up their minds on Cholly Manuel.

Other names dropped in that article, and I'm sure everybody will like one of these: "Among possible candidates on postseason clubs are Bud Black, Joe Maddon, Ron Roenicke, Harold Baines and Joey Cora."

2005-10-16 13:33:02
31.   Bob Timmermann
No problem. It didn't make sense to me that you could be a "free agent" and have a predetermined salary range.
2005-10-16 13:39:29
32.   Bob Timmermann
Mound City Men:
Sanders (sorry I was mistaken that he was out)
Mabry 3B

Bayou City Men:

2005-10-16 13:45:17
33.   fawnkyj
They just showed tht Pepsi commercial with Vlad and Arod again, the one were Vlad shatters the moon, kinda funny the both are having/had bad postseasons.

The Pepsi curse?

2005-10-16 13:45:42
34.   Linkmeister
You know, it must stink to be Bagwell, limited to pinch-hitting duties. After all those years of being a major contributor to the Astros, having to sit and watch would frustrate the heck out of me.
2005-10-16 13:46:27
35.   Bob Timmermann
If the Astros make it to the World Series, I think Bagwell will be able to deal with it.

Especially because he would get to be the DH.

2005-10-16 13:49:54
36.   Bob Timmermann
So I had my car washed this morning. Then I sold it. Now it's raining. Are the events connected?
2005-10-16 14:05:41
37.   MikeB
I've decided to stop "playing" a lawyer on DT, and instead pretend I'm a GM. ;>)
Dodgers Lineup - Opening day 2006
A. Perez
2005-10-16 14:08:51
38.   D4P
Mike - Everyone knows that Choi's best spot in the lineup is #2...:)
2005-10-16 14:10:33
39.   trainwreck
So you just signed Nomar hahaha and re-signed Cruz.
2005-10-16 14:15:37
40.   MikeB
37. In 2005, yes. But prior to that wasn't Choi a very promising power hitter for the Marlins and for the Cubs in the minors -- batting in the middle/lower half of the order? IMHO I don't believe that the PD acquired Choi for the #2 spot. I think that was another of JT's small battlegrounds with PD.
2005-10-16 14:16:47
41.   Bob Timmermann
Choi was meant to bat in the #2 slot because DePodesta envisioned the powerful bat of Robles to be hitting behind him in the #3 slot.
2005-10-16 14:16:57
42.   MikeB
39. why not? I'm playing with OPM.
2005-10-16 14:17:41
43.   D4P
What seemed to happen last year was that Choi did quite well (and had His HR barrage) in the #2 spot, so Tracy moved Him down in the lineup to a position where Hee could perhaps drive in more runs. Then Hee struggled, and Tracy benched Him.
2005-10-16 14:18:25
44.   D4P
With the even powerfuller bat of Phillips hitting behind HIM in the #4 spot.
2005-10-16 14:29:04
45.   das411
How awesome would it be if Backe throws down of those "special games" this afternoon? Cards offense is putting me to sleep!
2005-10-16 14:40:46
46.   werthgagne31
GO ASTROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2005-10-16 14:44:15
47.   Romyrick
Anyone else thing 12 million for Matsui is way too high?
2005-10-16 14:46:19
48.   D4P
2005-10-16 15:04:23
49.   Uncle Miltie
Has everybody already forgotten about Willy Aybar? I've been against moving Aybar to SS, but if the Dodgers are interested in Nomar, then maybe Aybar can learn to play SS in winter ball. Or the Dodgers could move Kent to 1B, play Aybar at 2B and trade for (Kaz) Matsui

C Navarro
1B Choi
2B Kent
SS Aybar
3B Nomar
LF ?????
CF Bradley (I know he's not going to be back)
RF Drew


C Navarro
1B Kent
2B Aybar
SS Matsui
3B Nomar
LF ????
CF Bradley
RF Drew

2005-10-16 15:09:56
50.   werthgagne31
3b-perez, then mid season call up laroche
of-drew,giles,and either bradley or cruz

i think nomar is a waist, and i like giles better than matsui.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-16 15:13:07
51.   das411
NO WAY!! Houston's hitting coach is Gary Gaetti?? THE Gary Gaetti?!? As in, , the coolest website on the entire internet???
2005-10-16 15:18:22
52.   HomeDePo
AROD sounds so weird in that commercial. He couldn't say "Run" like he knows how just once, could he? It's like his lips are numb.
2005-10-16 15:23:06
53.   HomeDePo
51 - are u a member?
2005-10-16 15:28:31
54.   King of the Hobos
What, may I ask, was that "website?" It's, uh, interesting...
2005-10-16 15:32:12
55.   fanerman
54 - Yeah I got suckered into going too.
2005-10-16 15:33:36
56.   fanerman
I wouldn't mind signing Nomar to a 1-year deal for around. If he can play he's still a great hitter. If not, well, at least he boosts our payroll to the $100 million mark so people have one less thing to care about.
2005-10-16 15:34:05
57.   fanerman
care = complain in 56.
2005-10-16 15:39:49
58.   das411
Haha, no, not a member, just found it last week and thought it was ridiculously funny. I mean, c'mon, would anybody here actually put a site like that together?
2005-10-16 15:43:15
59.   HomeDePo
58 - and it goes on forever. I spend 10 minutes reading it and got about a third of the way through. Those guys were probably born high.
2005-10-16 15:45:21
60.   Marty
If you scroll down that web site long enough, there's a classic picture of Johnny Cash.
2005-10-16 15:46:21
61.   King of the Hobos
59 That was the only third that made sense. After that, it starts listing movies and celebrities (and pseudo celebrities), with seemingly no connection to Gaetti
2005-10-16 16:11:57
62.   fanerman
After a second visit, I have to agree with das411. That IS the coolest website ever.
2005-10-16 16:13:00
63.   student of the game
Someone who has been overlooked as a potential Dodger, what are some opinions on R. Furcal? He OPSed .777 with double digit homers... Assuming a reasonable pricetag, I think he would be a good addition. He would also sure-up what has been a problem area for the dodgers- a SS who can play defense and have a presence offensively.
2005-10-16 16:15:18
64.   King of the Hobos
63 The Cubs are ready to offer 4 years, $40 million supposedly. If that's true, it's not worth it
2005-10-16 16:23:36
65.   student of the game
64 Agreed. he is not a $10M per year player. Ultimately, Depodesta's priority will probably be acquiring additional depth at most positions.
2005-10-16 16:39:24
66.   Telemachos
Given how this post-season is turning out (and how most post-seasons turn out), our single #1 priority should be developing the pitching staff. As much as we need a bat or two, I'd rather spend the money on a pitcher (assuming we can acquire a solid one via trade, of course).

P.S. I missed Edmonds getting ejected. Can someone fill me in on how it happened?

2005-10-16 16:40:50
67.   Bob Timmermann
Edmonds thought a pitch from Wheeler was ball four. The home plate umpire, Cuzzi, called it a strike (not sure if it was swinging or a called strike).

Edmonds was displeased. He said a word that you would associate with an AFLAC commercial except that it starts with an F.

2005-10-16 16:43:32
68.   Telemachos
Ah, funny what damage words can cause. Thanks, Bob. Things are looking rough for the Cards right now.
2005-10-16 16:44:45
69.   Bob Timmermann
Rodriguez, who finished up the at bat, absolutely crushed a pitch from Wheeler, but Taveras chased it down on the hill.
2005-10-16 16:49:39
70.   Icaros
I love when they run up the hill.

If I could design a stadium, I'd hang cargo nets around parts of the outfield wall so the defenders could climb them and make amazing catches.

2005-10-16 16:49:39
71.   Bob Timmermann
Scioscia has come to his senses and Finley is not in the starting lineup for Game 5. Anderson is in center, Rivera in left and Kotchman is the DH.
2005-10-16 16:50:34
72.   Sam DC
Hi all - been offline a few days, now I should be monikered "Sam IL" cause I'm joining you from a hotel in Lisle, Illinois, 30 miles outside Chicago. Funny, sitting here missing my family, and what do I do but sidle up to you all.

Is anyone else suprised that the MLBPA puts up with that crazy hill at Minute Maid. Seems like someone is needlessly going to shred an ankle running into that thing. For me, while old stadiums with their quirks are fun, purposely creating quirks rather than engineering them to deal with pre-existing site issues (a la the Green Monster) is kind of strange.

2005-10-16 16:52:22
73.   fawnkyj
Nice AB by Walker.
2005-10-16 16:52:54
74.   Sam DC
I see Icaros and I have some talking to do. (Hadn't seen his cargo net proposal when I wrote my comment.)
2005-10-16 16:52:56
75.   fawnkyj
it got really quiet in Anahei- ...uh i mean houston.
2005-10-16 16:53:32
76.   das411
62 - Thanks fanerman, you really have to gut it out through the whole thing, right?

70 , 72 - Have you guys heard about the latest change to that ballpark? or

2005-10-16 16:54:13
77.   Icaros
I guess Sam wouldn't like my stadium.

And I didn't even mention the quicksand pool behind home plate.

2005-10-16 16:55:42
78.   Sam DC
77 Stadium by Blofeld. Make sure and watch yourself in the visiting club elevator.
2005-10-16 16:57:53
79.   das411
2005-10-16 16:58:17
80.   Icaros
Wow. What a great way to end a game.
2005-10-16 16:58:47
81.   Bob Timmermann
That DP was Cora-Izturis like.
2005-10-16 17:02:03
82.   Icaros


2005-10-16 17:03:36
83.   das411
Now seriously, who here doesn't enjoy this more than those stupid station-to-station slugfests we've seen the last few years?

81 - Bob, see 30 ...which Cora?

2005-10-16 17:05:48
84.   Icaros
83 Why can't we have a little of both?
2005-10-16 17:13:11
85.   Linkmeister
83 Speaking only for myself, if every post-season game was a one-run nailbiter I'd be quite happy (as long as the Dodgers aren't playing).
2005-10-16 17:19:29
86.   Marty
The home plate umpire should be working the ALCS. That would make quite an umpire team.

Old Crosley Field in Cincy had a hill-climb too. I think it was around the entire fence, not just in one spot.

2005-10-16 17:36:10
87.   Nick Iyengar
If we sign Nomar to play short, and let Aybar play third, what do we do when Izturis gets back? Move Nomar to third, and bench Aybar? What if Aybar is a better offensive option than Izturis (which appears at least plausible)?

It seems like signing Nomar or Furcal creates the problem of having a crowded infield. In some ways, this is a good problem to have, but I don't like the idea of overpaying for a 3B or SS, only to have to juggle playing time when Izturis returns.

2005-10-16 17:43:13
88.   Bob Timmermann
Crosley Field's hill was just in left field. I'm not sure why they had it.
2005-10-16 17:49:09
89.   Romyrick

I dont see either of those two players losing playing time to Cesar Izturis.

2005-10-16 17:49:10
90.   Bob Timmermann
There isn't great contrast in this photo, but here is a link to the left field slope at Crosley Field, the inspiration for Tal's Hill in Houston.

2005-10-16 17:54:50
91.   Icaros
90 I like that old Mountain Dew sign.
2005-10-16 18:14:54
92.   Bob Timmermann
Clutch error by the White Sox there.
2005-10-16 18:38:06
93.   Bob Timmermann
I guess we are solely devoted to the National League?
2005-10-16 18:41:48
94.   D4P
I guess we're anti-American.
2005-10-16 18:41:58
95.   Icaros
I'm here, but I don't have much to say. I'm hungry.
2005-10-16 18:45:16
96.   Linkmeister
I'd like to see the Angels win if only to extend the series.
2005-10-16 18:47:55
97.   Icaros
As a color commentator, Lou Pinella's nickname should be Captain Obvious.
2005-10-16 18:50:21
98.   Bob Timmermann
If the White Sox win and the Astros win tomorrow, no baseball until Saturday. :-(
2005-10-16 18:51:17
99.   dzzrtRatt
I was going to say Paul Byrd had done a thoroughly professional job of pitching, til Dye's hit.
2005-10-16 18:54:03
100.   Bob Timmermann
Scioscia should have put Byrd in a position to succeed.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-16 18:55:02
101.   Icaros
100 DH?
2005-10-16 18:57:05
102.   D4P
Tracy didn't get nearly enough credit for penciling Kent in as the starting 2nd baseman on a daily basis.
2005-10-16 19:00:12
103.   dzzrtRatt
Finally, the bad umpire karma is reverse.

Angels in 7.

2005-10-16 19:00:21
104.   Bob Timmermann
Makeup call!
2005-10-16 19:02:22
105.   dzzrtRatt
Why does it always seem like the fans who interfere with balls in play during the postseason are the sorts of people who, let's say, don't benefit from the camera's scrutiny?
2005-10-16 19:06:35
106.   Bob Timmermann
So what city do we think that fan came from? Tustin? Newport Beach? Riverside? Rancho Cucamonga? Mission Viejo?
2005-10-16 19:08:04
107.   das411
101 - Desperate Housewives?

98 - Saturday is my 21st birthday Bob. All part of my plan...

Can we officially label Vlad un-clutch yet?

2005-10-16 19:14:13
108.   Icaros
I've never watched the show. What positions do(es) Desperate Housewives offer?
2005-10-16 19:15:40
109.   Bob Timmermann

Let me tell you, sonny boy, I can remember a time when the Phillies won the World Series!

I won't even see Game 1 of the World Series as I will be at the Rose Bowl for the UCLA-OSU game.
The Revenge of Matt Moore?

2005-10-16 19:17:33
110.   MikeB
Vlad swings like he's hurt. That last groundball out - he usually kills that pitch.
2005-10-16 19:19:37
111.   Icaros
Didn't the Phillies still get booed by their fans when they last won the World Series?
2005-10-16 19:22:42
112.   Romyrick
I bet Arod wishes his fans would result to the Injury card as the only reasonable explanation to why he wouldn't be playing well.
2005-10-16 19:23:40
113.   das411
Ic, the Phillies get booed by their fans regardless of what they do on the field, that's just the way it is. And as for your question about Housewives, I don't think Jon would let me answer that here.

Maybe you could ask the Bronx Banter crew? They might be more fun to hear it from anyways...CREDE!!!

2005-10-16 19:24:08
114.   Langhorne
I'm not sure I agree with "umpire's discretion" on fan interference. I'm not even sure that it is in the rule book. On a ground rule double, yes, but I don't think umpires get any say when a fan interferes. However, if they do I don't like giving them the power to decide what would have happened. A lot of things could have happened. It also sends a message to home fans that interfering with a ball in play will have no negative effect on the team.
2005-10-16 19:24:21
115.   D4P
ARod has fans?
2005-10-16 19:24:52
116.   sanchez101
112. you mean like Guerrero's fans?
2005-10-16 19:25:00
117.   MikeB says Terry Pendelton will interview Wednesday for manager.
2005-10-16 19:25:47
118.   Romyrick

Which reminds me Big Not so fat but actually still pretty fat Joe McDonnell wishes ill to Vlad... sort of....

"...What in the world is up with Vlad Guerrero? He's performing like a mere mortal at the most important time of the season. No homers....throws to the wrong bases...running like a sixty year old man. I wonder if he's injured and is keeping quiet about it. I sure hope that's the case...because the alternative isn't pretty to think about......."

Vlad not being hurt isnt pretty to think about? WHA????

2005-10-16 19:27:04
119.   natepurcell
my master plan for 2006 dodger domination is now complete.
2005-10-16 19:27:05
120.   natepurcell
my master plan for 2006 dodger domination is now complete.
2005-10-16 19:27:27
121.   natepurcell
its soo complete that i just had to announce it twice.
2005-10-16 19:27:44
122.   dzzrtRatt
Escobar's glasses? He looks like he's trying out for the remake of The King of Marvin Gardens.
2005-10-16 19:28:12
123.   Romyrick
If he doesnt have any fans, I'll be his fan. I like Arod and seeing as i'm the only one of his fans that should ensure me having a close personal relationship with Arod because I mean when you only have one you gotta appreciate him right? And by appreciate I mean forking over a few million.
2005-10-16 19:28:23
124.   D4P
All right, Purcey, let's see it.
2005-10-16 19:29:29
125.   sanchez101
121. doesnt it include some three-way trade for arod or beltran, that would be sweet.
2005-10-16 19:29:38
126.   trainwreck
Did you choose a manager?
2005-10-16 19:32:22
127.   natepurcell
Did you choose a manager?

oops..... okay ill do that right now, then it will be revealed. give me 10 mins.

2005-10-16 19:32:24
128.   Romyrick
Jermaine Dye = Joe Thurston
2005-10-16 19:34:05
129.   MikeB
Joe Girardi has been asked back for a 2nd interview with the Devil Ray. Guess Alan Trammell wasn't what they were looking for.
2005-10-16 19:34:38
130.   sanchez101
speaking of joey ballgame, did we ever find out who the PTBNL from the yankees was or did we just get cash or "future considerations" ?
2005-10-16 19:38:25
131.   Bob Timmermann
The spectator interference rule

Rule 3.16
When there is spectator interference with any thrown or batted ball, the ball shall be dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as in his opinion will nullify the act of interference. APPROVED RULING: If spectator interference clearly prevents a fielder from catching a fly ball, the umpire shall declare the batter out. There is a difference between a ball which has been thrown or batted into the stands, touching a spectator thereby being out of play even though it rebounds onto the field and a spectator going onto the field or reaching over, under or through a barrier and touching a ball in play or touching or otherwise interfering with a player. In the latter case it is clearly intentional and shall be dealt with as intentional interference as in Rule 3.15. Batter and runners shall be placed where in the umpire's judgment they would have been had the interference not occurred. No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator's interference. Example: Runner on third base, one out and a batter hits a fly ball deep to the outfield (fair or foul). Spectator clearly interferes with the outfielder attempting to catch the fly ball. Umpire calls the batter out for spectator interference. Ball is dead at the time of the call. Umpire decides that because of the distance the ball was hit, the runner on third base would have scored after the catch if the fielder had caught the ball which was interfered with, therefore, the runner is permitted to score. This might not be the case if such fly ball was interfered with a short distance from home plate.

2005-10-16 19:41:35
132.   das411
Look! It's the ChiSox bullpen!!!

Is it just my tv or is the fake ad blurring around Contreras's head really bad tonight?

2005-10-16 19:42:49
133.   King of the Hobos
130 Hasn't been announced as far as I know, but the Yankees still have a few months to complete it (they have 6 months, which gives them until January)
2005-10-16 19:43:17
134.   natepurcell
dreifort 13
weaver 9.35
green 10
valentin 3.5
alvarez 2 *retire
dessens 1.05 (.25 buyout of 1.3 option)
bako 0.65
erickson 0.525
carrara 0.5

total 40.575

Offer weaver arbitration. Get two draft picks
resign saenz to a 1 yr 1 mil deal
resign cruz to a 2 yr 4 mil deal
resign wunsch 1 yr .55 deal
Sign Brian Giles to a 3 yr 28 mil deal
Sign Rafael Furcal to a 4 yr 32 mil deal
Trade Odalis Perez and 4.5 mil (money to pay for bonus) to the tigers for Kyle Sleeth and Humberto Sanchez
3 team trade:
Dodgers trade: chuck tiffany, delwyn young, justin orenduff
dodgers receive: Barry Zito
A's trade: Barry Zito, juan cruz
A's receive: Aubrey Huff, justin orenduff
Drays trade: Aubrey Huff
Drays receive: chuck tiffany, juan cruz, delwyn young
Sign Barry Zito to a 4 yr 38 mil contract extension taking into effect after 2006 season

shortstop Rafael Furcal 8mil 285/350/430 13hr 40SB
3rd base Willy Aybar 0.33mil 275/340/425 12hr
right field JD Drew 11mil 290/405/525 28hr 135 games played
2nd base Jeff Kent 9mil 280/355/510 26hr
left field Brian Giles 9.33mil 290/400/485 22 hr
Center field Milton Bradley 3mil 285/365/475 20hr
1st base Hee Seop Choi 0.95mil 265/375/480 25hr 420ABs
catcher Dioner Navarro 0.33mil 265/365/415

total 41.94

projected bench
catcher Jason Phillips 0.75
2b/ss/3b antonio perez 0.33
1b/3b Olmedo Saenz 1
2b/ss/3b Oscar Robles 0.33
4th OF Jose Cruz Jr. 2
5th OF Ricky Ledee 1.5

total 5.91

starting rotation
RHP Brad Penny 5.5 30 GS 185IP 3.55 ERA
RHP Derek Lowe 9 35 GS 220IP 3.70 ERA
LHP Barry Zito 8.5 35 GS 220IP 3.45 ERA
RHP DJ Houlton 0.33 28 GS 175IP 4.4 ERA
RHP Edwin Jackson 0.33 28 GS 175IP 4.6 ERA

total 23.66

projected bullpen
CL Eric Gagne 10
RHSP Duaner Sanchez 0.4
LHSP Hong Chih Kuo 0.33
MR Yhency Brazoban 0.33
MR Jonathan Broxton 0.33
LOOGY Kelley Wunsch 0.55

total 11.94

I/R, money going out in trades
Cesar Izturis 3.1
Odalis Perez 4.5 send to other team for signing bonus

total 7.6

25 man roster TOTAL PAYROLL without benefits:91.05

and for the most imporant part of the team....

manager- Ron washington
bench coach- Torey Lovullo
pitching coach- Orel

2005-10-16 19:43:17
135.   Icaros
132 Sounds like you're getting a head start on that 21st birthday.

(I see it too).

2005-10-16 19:46:50
136.   King of the Hobos
129 They interview Pendleton tomorrow, so there's more competition...

The DRays have started a new advertising campaign, essentially announcing they're "Under Construction." At least they're now trying to convince the fans they're trying, rather than just sitting around signing old vets to block their prospects

2005-10-16 19:47:31
137.   Icaros
134 How much did it cost to have Jayson Werth rubbed out?
2005-10-16 19:48:43
138.   natepurcell
Werth was passed on waivers and sent down to vegas.
same with repko.

although they might be claimed, i am willinig to take that risk as fantasy GM.

2005-10-16 19:50:47
139.   natepurcell
who is a decent batting coach we can steal from another team?
2005-10-16 19:51:01
140.   MikeB
136. Does "under construction" include a name change? Tampa used to be the cigar making capital of the US. Hava-Tampas, Coronas, Supremos?

They don't have a GM yet, and they're hiring a new manager. Kind of a strange way to start off the new regime.

2005-10-16 19:51:30
141.   Bob Timmermann
If Werth were put on waivers, he would be claimed pretty quickly. I would think most teams would think that he can play pretty close to the level he did in 2004.
2005-10-16 19:52:18
142.   trainwreck
I liked the three way trade much better when we got Cruz as well. Rather Cruz be our fifth starter. I would also sign Millwood to be the 4th starter. Am I the only person who does not want to spend money on Furcal. I think he is a solid player, but he could get close to Tejada money.
2005-10-16 19:53:23
143.   trainwreck
Let's make Mark Mcgwire hitting coach.
2005-10-16 19:54:28
144.   natepurcell
isnt tejada making like 13 mil a yr?

cruz is an enigma, and id rather not take a chance on him. although he does have electric stuff. millwood is going to go back to sucking or being injured after his career year this year. hes too much a of a risk factor for me. his agent is boras and you know boras is going to be looking for a payday after his client just led the AL in era.

2005-10-16 19:54:32
145.   Icaros
I hear Furcal likes to drink while running the bases.
2005-10-16 19:54:38
146.   D4P
No, I don't want to spend money on Furcal either.
2005-10-16 19:55:30
147.   MikeB
142. Furcal may have issues with regards to "character" - at least in the eyes of the local media gods. He's had a couple of brushes with the law due to driving under the influence, including one this past season. And, if you sign Furcal, where or what do you do with Izturis, Aybar, Perez, Guzman?
2005-10-16 19:56:34
148.   King of the Hobos
139 Jack Clark?
2005-10-16 19:56:42
149.   das411
!!!!!!!!!!!! BAD CALL
2005-10-16 19:57:11
150.   trainwreck
Maybe I know hes getting around that much. People were saying Furcal was going to get offered 10 mill a season. He is not that good of a player. If he got on base more, then I would like him a lot more.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-16 19:57:21
151.   das411
He VERY clearly had the ball in his hand and tagged with the glove, this is the worst kind of....phew
2005-10-16 19:57:38
152.   Steve
These guys are completely incompetent.
2005-10-16 19:59:21
153.   natepurcell
And, if you sign Furcal, where or what do you do with Izturis, Aybar, Perez, Guzman?

izturis- recovering from injury. then trade.
aybar- playing 3b then shifts to 2b in 2007 when kent retires.
perez- utility infielder.
guzman- lf/rf

2005-10-16 19:59:39
154.   Vishal
pure comedy.
2005-10-16 19:59:51
155.   trainwreck
Scioscia stop complaining for once! That was so obvious I am sure you even saw it.
2005-10-16 20:01:13
156.   Icaros
They got that one right. I imagine the stands at Angel Stadium are very clean, what with the constant flow of tears and tonight's rain.
2005-10-16 20:01:55
157.   das411
Scioscia has to complain to let K-Rod warm up. Remember, the pitcher who made his name in 2002 cause they switched him onto the roster through that loophole?

Steve, even you have to admit that Crede has been pretty clutch though...let's see what he does now

2005-10-16 20:01:55
158.   Bob Timmermann
But the umpires got that call right after conferring. The first base umpire was obviously screened and he did ask for help.

Of course, Ozzie Guillen was in the first base umpire's face in about 3 seconds.

2005-10-16 20:01:56
159.   Bob Timmermann
But the umpires got that call right after conferring. The first base umpire was obviously screened and he did ask for help.

Of course, Ozzie Guillen was in the first base umpire's face in about 3 seconds.

2005-10-16 20:02:19
160.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, jumpy fingers there.
2005-10-16 20:05:54
161.   trainwreck
God I just realized I have been rooting for AJ Pierzynski... I feel dirty!
2005-10-16 20:06:09
162.   das411
Solid. The Angels are being completely out-smallballed.

And that is the first time I have ever seen Paul Byrd look pissed.

2005-10-16 20:09:34
163.   MikeB
Sorry but that's a lot of movement -- four good young players -- just to accomodate one potentially overpriced SS.
I'd rather keep Izturis, let Aybar and Perez fight it out for the starter/utility IF role. As for Guzman, he may be better suited as a corner IF, not an OF. It's still too early to tell.
2005-10-16 20:09:58
164.   Steve
K-Rod. Yikes.

As for Joe Crede, anything that gives some poor schlub team a reason to give him money is an unmitigated good.

2005-10-16 20:12:00
165.   Steve
Memo to K-Rod,

Scott Podsednik could not hit you with a taser gun. Breaking balls in the dirt are probably not necessary.

2005-10-16 20:12:31
166.   das411
164 - Hmm, aren't the Dodgers looking to upgrade at 3B?
2005-10-16 20:13:01
167.   dzzrtRatt
Bright side: The Angels management will not go into this offseason with any delusions about how good their team really is.

Neither did DePodesta after 2004, but for that, he's been compared to a heartless robot. My guess is Stoneman will get stones thrown at him if he doesn't trade some heart and soul to get hitting.

2005-10-16 20:13:46
168.   Steve
If they wanted to downgrade, Joe Crede would be a good way of going about it.
2005-10-16 20:13:52
169.   MikeB
167. Amen.
2005-10-16 20:14:06
170.   King of the Hobos
164 Maybe the Padres, in an attempt to replace Randa, will trade for Crede.
2005-10-16 20:14:26
171.   Bob Timmermann

Pierzynski will get the chance to show off his attitude against the likes of Roger Clemens soon enough. He's 1 for 11 in his career against him.

2005-10-16 20:16:31
172.   Steve
170 -- excellent point -- they like useless playoff heroes
2005-10-16 20:18:46
173.   MikeB
168. If the ChiSox manage to win the WS, do you think they will have the guts to let anyone go from this team over the winter? Other than the Big Hurt of course.
2005-10-16 20:19:15
174.   Bob Timmermann
So looking through players meeting up in a potential White Sox-Astros World Series, I discovered that Carl Everett was once traded for Adam Everett. (Boston and Houston)
2005-10-16 20:21:09
175.   Steve
So assuming the White Sox get through the ninth, how does the local media handle the whole Vlad=not clutch thing?
2005-10-16 20:23:10
176.   das411
Hey Bob, I think some of the starting pitcheres may have once been teammates with each other too.

Is Ozzie trying to win a bet? What is with the running his SPs into the ground?

2005-10-16 20:23:24
177.   King of the Hobos
173 No, and I expect them to fall back to earth next year. Minnesota and Cleveland will get better, Tigers could improve, and the White Sox will just stand pat. If they don't re-sign Konerko, they could easily finish 3rd next year, if not worse
2005-10-16 20:23:30
178.   Bob Timmermann
Vlad doesn't have what it takes. If Scott Spiezio were on the Angels, they'd be ahead.
2005-10-16 20:23:39
179.   trainwreck
First they will make a big deal about it, but they will forgive him and say he helped carry this team through the season. That is my prediction.
2005-10-16 20:24:01
180.   das411
pitchers there. Those dudes that got run off of that team in NY
2005-10-16 20:24:05
181.   King of the Hobos
175 Trade him to the Dodgers?
2005-10-16 20:24:54
182.   natepurcell
So assuming the White Sox get through the ninth, how does the local media handle the whole Vlad=not clutch thing?

forces management to trade him to the dodgers so he can drag the dodgers down with his unclutchiness?

2005-10-16 20:25:47
183.   Steve
Yeah, I think we could leave Joe Crede off the radar and pick up Vlad, unclutchiness aside.

K-Rod looks horrible. Mega-tremendo horrible. Does he not have a fastball?

2005-10-16 20:26:38
184.   Bob Timmermann
Contreras was a teammate of Clemens and Petitte in 2003.

I assume Freddy Garcia may have been a teammate of some of the Astros back in the minors.

2005-10-16 20:27:48
185.   Steve
And that's why he wasn't throwing the fastball. Better luck next year.
2005-10-16 20:29:01
186.   MikeB
Konerko just got himself an NY-sized contract.
2005-10-16 20:29:34
187.   natepurcell
krod is falling all over the mound. hes going to through his arm out.
2005-10-16 20:30:14
188.   Steve
187 -- I can't believe he's still out there. It's not like you're getting results anyway.
2005-10-16 20:31:24
189.   das411
The Duque + Clemens + Pettitte for I guess 1999-2003 or so? Dan Wheeler and Timo Perez would be a good one but I think they missed by a year or two.

Maybe Ozzie is resting his bullpen so that they will have sharper stuff during the WS? That's about the only reason I can think of...that and he can always use Duque for a spot start, or bring up McCarthy for some innings.

2005-10-16 20:31:41
190.   natepurcell
hes going to throw his arm out. man i suck at typing.
2005-10-16 20:32:07
191.   Bob Timmermann
Konerko is hitting a whopping .286 in the postseason!

Actually, that doesn't count his last AB.

2005-10-16 20:32:49
192.   das411
188 - You think they miss Troy Percival and his incomparable clutchiness here?
2005-10-16 20:32:58
193.   sanchez101
176. didnt contreras only have 95 pitches entering the 8 inning.

i think the consecutive complete games has more to do with the angles "hitting" approach than anything

2005-10-16 20:33:29
194.   King of the Hobos
So, KRod and Vald to the Dodgers for Repko, Phillips, Izturis, and a prospect or two?

That's 2 unclutch players for some scrappiness, some clutch, and a brother to a guy they like to play at 3B

2005-10-16 20:34:21
195.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels did last year too.

And he was on the team then.

2005-10-16 20:35:19
196.   sanchez101
194. then we're stuck without any scrappy players, the Dodgers would be doomed!
2005-10-16 20:38:05
197.   Steve
The Angels don't like hitting against the other teams' middle relievers. First pitch swing against the best they always say.

K-Rod -- 41 pitches, 18 strikes.

2005-10-16 20:40:46
198.   dzzrtRatt
It'll be, why was Vlad hiding an injury? Why was K-Rod hiding an injury? Was was Colon hiding an injury? Why was Anderson hiding an injury?
2005-10-16 20:41:00
199.   Steve
The Angels could use the big, Clutchity McClutch bat of Steve Finley right now.
2005-10-16 20:41:01
200.   natepurcell
i think konerkos going to get a 5 yr 60 mil deal from some very lucky team.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-10-16 20:41:05
201.   King of the Hobos
I liked today's NL finish better, I mean, that was a nice DP
2005-10-16 20:41:47
202.   Bob Timmermann
It will all be Doug Eddings fault.
2005-10-16 20:42:01
203.   dzzrtRatt
The Angels lost that talent at working the count. Not just in the post-season; they were free-swinging all year.

I don't feel bad, though. The best AL team is in the Series.

2005-10-16 20:42:38
204.   Uncle Miltie
Light up the Halo, just another Angel...nevermind.
2005-10-16 20:43:43
205.   MikeB
Any bets on the WSox throwing another 4 complete games in the World Serious?
2005-10-16 20:43:55
206.   das411
203 - And it's going to be quite the Series too. The scary part is Contreras has until Saturday to rest up for it.
2005-10-16 20:44:12
207.   Steve
Strange...I was rooting for them...and yet I'm enjoying the fact that they lost...does...not...compute..Spock...
2005-10-16 20:45:09
208.   sanchez101
all-scrappy team:

c- a.j. pierzynski
1b - darin esrstad
2b - alex cora
ss - neifi perez
3b - vinny castilla
lf - scott podsednick
cf - steve finley
rf - jason repko

utl - jose macias

2005-10-16 20:45:11
209.   Bob Timmermann
It could take a long time waiting for the White Sox and Astros to score runs in the World Series.
2005-10-16 20:46:27
210.   MikeB
208. Who is the scrappy's manager? Ozzie? Tracy?
2005-10-16 20:46:58
211.   dzzrtRatt
Tonight's Waste Management "Let's Sweep Out the Garbage" winner: The Angels, for making sure the Yankees didn't bring that trash into the World Series.
2005-10-16 20:47:28
212.   Bob Timmermann
I'll tell you how the World Series will come out. But I need to call Arnold Rothstein first.
2005-10-16 20:49:13
213.   Steve
211 -- Amen, the Angels always do a fantastic job of eliminating our most hated foes, and for that reason, I never hold the contempt for them that some do around here. Not that I don't understand their contempt.
2005-10-16 20:49:28
214.   Bob Timmermann
After the inevitable poor TV ratings for a Chicago-Houston World Series, we'll have to put up with people telling us how much better it would be if the Yankees or Red Sox were playing.

But they won't be. Too bad.

2005-10-16 20:50:59
215.   bill cox
Boy sure glad we got Jeff Shaw for Konerko.I was reading BA and he was Minor League Player of the Year two years in a rowMaybe those guys were onto something.
That's a good reason why young guys like Depo need a shot at running teams instead of good old boys like Lasorda.
2005-10-16 20:51:52
216.   das411
Aww...Ozzie Guillen, Kenny Williams, and Jerry Reinsdorf. What a family!

214 - Odd too that those are 2 of the 5 largest cities in the country. Oh well.

2005-10-16 20:53:26
217.   das411
Wow, Fox I guess doesn't want to risk naming Pierzynski as MVP?
2005-10-16 20:53:55
218.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure the World Series will get insane ratings in Chicago. Not sure what it will be like in Houston. It's Texas after all. It's football season.
2005-10-16 20:54:26
219.   alex 7
Same here. I want to be happy for Konerko, but I can't look at him without thinking of Shaw and Tommy and what could have been.
2005-10-16 20:54:39
220.   sanchez101
210. ozzie and tracy are the fielding and bench coach, respectivley. How else but Dusty could be the manager?
2005-10-16 20:54:43
221.   trainwreck
The Red Sox last year, the White Sox possibly winning this year, who is next? The Cubs? Hahaha no that will not be happening.
2005-10-16 20:55:19
222.   sanchez101
2005-10-16 20:56:01
223.   MikeB
220. Mickey Hatcher as batting coach. Rex Hudler is announcing.
2005-10-16 20:58:48
224.   sanchez101
hypothetical - should the white sox win this year, and then the cubs some how get their s--- together and win next year, do the Giants suddenly become the cursed franchise. Are they the next longest WS steak?
2005-10-16 20:59:18
225.   Bob Timmermann
Cleveland hasn't won since 1948.
2005-10-16 21:01:01
226.   sanchez101
223. nice, we wont have any trouble putting a bench together
2005-10-16 21:03:15
227.   D4P
Yep. Grabowski et al. = The New Stuntmen
2005-10-16 21:08:02
228.   MikeB
226. We forgot about Phil "Scrap Iron" Garner. On post game interviews he appears almost comatose. The next Joe Torre.
2005-10-16 21:18:10
229.   Bob Timmermann
Both LCS games tonight were decided by bad fielding plays by pitchers.

Marquis couldn't field Biggio's bunt and Escobar couldn't ... couldn't .... do something.

2005-10-16 21:26:28
230.   alex 7

Didn't find any reference to it in any earlier posts, but the Dodgers are set to interview Braves' hitting coach Terry Pendleton and possibly both Kirk Gibson and Orel Hershiser.

2005-10-16 21:28:45
231.   regfairfield
208 I'm sorry, this has been mathematically proven to be the all scrap team:

CF Scott Podsednik
1B Darin Erstad
LF Eric Byrnes
2B Craig Biggio
3B Derek Jeter (he's a good guy, he'll accept the move)
C Paul Lo Duca
SS David Eckstein
RF Jason Repko

2005-10-16 21:30:42
232.   Langhorne
212 We'll know if the Sox pitcher hits the first batter. Although, I doubt any team will be bigger underdogs than the 1919 Reds.
2005-10-16 21:31:01
233.   regfairfield
Bah, left this part off.

Think off the possibilities, Podsednik bunts for a single, steals second. Erstad hits a ground ball to the left side, and Byrnes hits a sac fly.

It's now 1-0.

2005-10-16 21:32:24
234.   das411
Hugh Hewitt on his Angels: "But in spite of all the bitterness, the season wasn't a complete loss. Sure, our Cy Young to be, Bartolo Colon, had shoulder problems, our leadoff hitter didn't, our power hitter wasn't, and the Chicago series was essentially like watching somebody die in slow motion, at least we beat the Yankees, and as Martha Stewart says, "It's a good thing." "

2005-10-16 21:33:22
235.   Bob Timmermann
The 1919 Reds had a better record than the White Sox.

I think the 1988 Dodgers were big underdogs. So were the 1969 Mets. And the 1987 Twins. The 1990 Reds had relatively long odds I imagine.

2005-10-16 21:55:55
236.   sanchez101
231. i cant believe i forgot byrnes, good choice. I think jeter and biggio might be to talented to be truly "scrappy".

i find it very funny, and perhaps telling that while there are dozens "scrappy" position players, you rarely hear about "scrappy" pitchers.

2005-10-16 22:35:16
237.   King of the Hobos
Arod is using the Odalis excuse (or rather his mother is using it). His mom says the death of Augusto Bolivar Navarro, his uncle who apparently raised him, saddened him making it hard to play
2005-10-16 22:44:22
238.   dzzrtRatt
A scrappy pitcher is a pitcher who essentially has no fastball, but still gets hitters out with "an assortment of changing speeds...getting hitters to swing at pitches out of the strike zone" or by using curious arm angles, including underhand. They don't have that lean and hungry look of scrappy position players. A scrappy pitcher is more in the mold of Jesse Orosco.
2005-10-16 23:04:49
239.   das411
Would Johnny Franco and tonight's starter, Paul Byrd, qualify as "scrappy" then? I would think the fastball MAX would be somewhere around 85-86 tops for them...
2005-10-16 23:14:55
240.   Bob Timmermann
In Henson's story in the LAT, he mentions that a faction with the Dodger organization is pushing for a manager with ties to the organization.

Pendleton is confirmed as a candidate, but Hershiser, Gibson, and Valentine are also possible.

Of course, Bud Black is available for interviews now.

When we wake up tomorrow, we'll know if Valentine will be available sooner or later. Valentine's team, the Chiba Lotte Marines is playing a decisive Game 5 in the Pacific League playoffs. Chiba won the first two and lead 4-0 in the 9th of Game 3, but lost that game 5-4 to Softbank (Fukuoka). Softbank then won game 4, 3-2.

The whole series is being played in Fukuoka. The winner takes on the Hanshin Tigers.

2005-10-16 23:16:57
241.   Bob Timmermann
And Valentine is sending Dan Serafini to the mound for Game 5. He was 11-4 with a 2.91 ERA this year.
2005-10-16 23:23:49
242.   dzzrtRatt
239 You're reading my mind. I wrote three players down on that note: John Franco, Jesse Orosco and Paul Byrd. Then I erased them because I realized there were many such pitchers who weren't coming to mind, and I was concerned about overlooking an obvious candidate.
2005-10-16 23:25:47
243.   dzzrtRatt
Valentine would be a moon shot for DePodesta. Combined with a half-decent offseason and good luck with injuries, Valentine could be spectacular. But he could also implode. Where is he at, page-wise? He had the image of being innovative.
2005-10-16 23:36:17
244.   Faramond

Coming back into the dugout in disguise after being ejected counts as innovative, doesn't it?

2005-10-17 00:02:08
245.   Uncle Miltie
Valentine is one of the few ESPN employees to ever praise the Dodgers. He's a good manager, but had trouble communicating with some of his players. Who can forget the incident in which Bobby Bonilla and Rickey Henderson were playing cards in the clubhouse in a game during the NLCS?
2005-10-17 00:15:59
246.   Faramond

I forgot about that incident.

I like Valentine, but I would be very surprised if he ended up as the Dodger manager.

I know it probably wouldn't be the best thing, but I have to admit I'm hoping it's Hersheiser or Gibson.

2005-10-17 07:22:30
247.   King of the Hobos
Chiba Lotte won 3-2, so no interview for Valentine yet
2005-10-17 07:43:52
248.   Bob Timmermann
The Japan Series runs the same time as the World Series, so it will be a while. I would think Chiba would be favored in the series. The Marines haven't won the Japan Series since 1974. Their opponent, the Hanshin Tigers, are the sentimental favorites, haven't won since 1985 and most of their success was before WWII.
2005-10-17 08:30:35
249.   blue22
205 - Any bets on the WSox throwing another...World Serious [sic]?

There, that looks better.

2005-10-17 08:50:36
250.   blue22
134 - Not crazy about Furcal. I like the Zito trade, but that extension is a bit frightening. I also get the feeling that Giles and the Dodgers are not meant to be.

I would strongly consider using Guzman as big time trade bait this offseason, to get a frontline starter (Oswalt?) or superstar bat (Dunn? ARod???). Should be interesting to see how the new Yankee GM attacks this offseason. Do they try to get younger and more talented, especially in the rotation and minor leagues (a scenario where ARod or Sheffield would most likely be trade bait)? Or will they just throw $50M at Burnett and try to trade Pavano?

Remains to be seen if Milton returns. I'm either way on it, assuming that one or two big bats come in to replace him. I'd be curious to see if Beane would give up Zito for Bradley, though that may be wishful thinking.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-10-17 09:01:19
251.   FirstMohican
250 - I second your lack of craziness towards Furcal. I think I'd rather have Robles at less than a Mil.

I'm all for getting and extending Zito, but why wouldn't the A's do that?

2005-10-17 09:09:00
252.   blue22
251 - but why wouldn't the A's do that?

Extend Zito? It's the A's. I don't think Beane held onto Zito last year because he wanted to build his rotation around him, rather his value was so low it was more prudent to hold onto him.

Zito has regained his trade value and is about to become expensive. They have Cruz ready to step in. The rotation of Harden, Haren, Blanton, Cruz, Kennedy/Saarloos? doesn't need Zito at $9M per.

What the A's do need is some hitting. Milton for Zito makes sense for both teams, provided Beane is willing to put up with Bradley's baggage.

2005-10-17 09:10:28
253.   SMY
I've seen Oswalt's name thrown around a lot on here, but I can't for the life of me figure out why Houston would consider trading him. Has there been anything reported about unhappiness on either side, or is it all just wishful thinking?
2005-10-17 09:20:26
254.   FirstMohican
252 - The A's either "need" alot more or don't really "need" anything. Of course I mean if they're trying to win a WS they need more, but if they're trying to field a decent team they don't really need much.

If the A's were going to have one pitcher they were going to pay some bucks (just like they have Chavez at 3B) it would definitely be Zito.

blue22 - if you could convince Beane to take Bradley for Zito, you'd probably have a GM job in the ML the next day.

Solid, durable, proven starter for surly, injury prone, center fielder? C'mon.

2005-10-17 09:22:04
255.   blue22
253 - Make a list of #1 starters:


Now pick out those that could conceivably be traded, if the team was knocked over by an offer.

I could see Tor parting with Halladay, but Oswalt is the one that jumps out. Pure unadulterated speculation though.

2005-10-17 09:29:29
256.   blue22
Solid, durable, proven starter

Ha!, that's what Beane wants you to believe. It was just last year/early this year that some people thought he was done.

Looking at his contract, I believe he has a $8.5M option for 2006. Again:

The rotation of Harden, Haren, Blanton, Cruz, Kennedy/Saarloos? doesn't need Zito at $9M per.

Remember, these are the A's we're talking about. If Beane gets Milton for 1/2 Zito's salary, that shores up the OF (Swisher, Kotsay, Bradley) plus gives him another $4-5M to spend elsewhere.

2005-10-17 09:30:49
257.   Bob Timmermann
Oswalt's name was thrown around at the beginning of the year when the Dodgers were still good and the Astros were bad.

Obviously the roles are reversed now and Roy Oswalt isn't going to leave Houston unless he pulls a gun on Phil Garner. And even then, they might keep him around and just fire Garner.

2005-10-17 09:38:59
258.   FirstMohican
256 - *Ha!, that's what Beane wants you to believe. It was just last year/early this year that some people thought he was done.

After you're done looking at his 06 option, take a look at his injury history.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, I'm not trying to make you believe that the A's won't trade Zito, but I seriously doubt the A's would take a straight up trade for Bradley.

Bradley 05 VORP 23.7
Zito 05 VORP 41.8

You can guess that you'll get similar production out of Zito, but with Bradley's injury history, how can you even begin to guess? Fingers, knees, two swings to perfect, bottles, domestic violence...

2005-10-17 09:46:56
259.   blue22
258 - Maybe I missed a chapter, but I don't believe Moneyball covered paying inning-eaters $9M / year when you've got 5 or 6 other qualified pitchers that can take his spot. To me, he's a left handed Jeff Weaver. LA, with the payroll as it is, could afford him at his price. I don't believe Oakland has that luxury.

So if its not Milton for Zito, that's fine. Maybe he tries to package him for prospects rather than a ML player, like Hudson and Mulder. My guess is Zito is gone one way or another.

2005-10-17 09:55:02
260.   FirstMohican
259 -

05 Vorp, opp. OPS
Weaver 28.5, .740
Zito 41.8, .662

And to give some quick perspective, the NLW Champ Pads would've been in 3rd in the AL West.

2005-10-17 10:10:35
261.   blue22
258 -

Bradley - 23.7 VORP at next year's salary of, say, $4M


Zito - 41.8 VORP at next year's salary of $8.5M

brings those numbers closer together I think, unless VORP already takes salary into account (which it doesn't I don't think).

Not to mention the A's strength is in their pitching staff, and are dying for offense (just ask Steve).

2005-10-17 10:15:24
262.   molokai
Most posters here would have kicked Konerko off the team after his 2003 season and declared him done. He's having a great power postseason but he's not that great. 40 homers in Comiskey is nice but his road numbers are so pedestrian that they should give any team pause before they commit 10mill a year to him.

This is the Tejada information using data from
Miguel Tejada: 6-Year worth 72M- + 12M signing bonus: 4 million paid in 2004 and then 2M each year in 2005, 2006, 2010 and 2011- will make 3M in 2004, 9M in 2005, 10M in 2006, 12M in 2007, 13M in 2008 and 13M in 2009- + Bonuses he has received: 50K bonus for 2004 All-Star, received 100K bonus for Silver Slugger in 2004, 300K for 5th place in 2004 MVP voting, 50K for 2005 All-Star selection Agency: SFX (Fernando Cuza, Diego Bentz, Pat Rooney) Service Time: 7.033

2005-10-17 10:23:11
263.   blue22
Of course, Gammons mentions that the A's are deciding whether to spin Zito over to the Mets for Lastings Milledge, which would trump Milton Bradley. We'll see.
2005-10-17 10:26:36
264.   Penarol1916
261. Regardless, I'd imagine, that the A's could get more than just Bradley straight up for Zito from another team if that was something they were looking to do. I'd imagine that it would take Bradley plus at least 1 good prospect.
2005-10-17 10:32:14
265.   blue22
264 - I agree. While that trade would seem to make sense, it doesn't mean it would be the best offer.

I don't think I would go after Zito with anything more than a modest prospect package, and I certainly wouldn't extend him (for the same reason I'm against anything more than a one-year arbitration offer to Weaver).

2005-10-17 10:47:38
266.   sanchez101
255. Toronto has talked a lot about adding salary this offseason and ownership wants a competitive team, that makes me doubt that they would trade Halladay. Houston not a small market team and just extented Oswalt through 2006, then he would be a free agent but i would think that Houston would have the money and motivation to keep him.

The most likely pitcher on your list to be traded in the near future to me looks like Johan Santana. In 2006 Santana will make $8.75 million, then in 2007 he will make $13 million. I doubt that Twins could afford that, thats a fifth of their payroll, especially as they face Mauer's arbitration/extension. They would certainly be looking for young talent in exchange, but Santana is the type of pitcher that is worth almost any price in prospect talent. Santana sure would look good in a dodger blue.

2005-10-17 10:49:08
267.   sanchez101
265. I would be more open to giving Zito an extension because hes definitly a better pitcher and his agent is not scott boras.
2005-10-17 10:50:07
268.   FirstMohican
265 - Bradley comperable to Zito? Zito similar to Weaver?

Where am I?

2005-10-17 10:52:20
269.   fanerman
266 - My boy Johan in Dodger blue? That would be sweet...
2005-10-17 10:54:40
270.   FirstMohican
And just because I can't give it a rest...

Bradley has averaged 106 games the last 3 years. Zito has averaged 35 starts over 5 years.

I really can't see how these guys are even close to even worth to a team...

2005-10-17 10:55:07
271.   FirstMohican
269 - Another vote for Johan.
2005-10-17 10:56:55
272.   sanchez101
269. ya, on BP's Pecota comparable player list for Santana include Tom Seaver, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Fergie Jenkins, Sid Fernandez, Andy Messersmith and the player with the highets similarity score to Santana is none other than Sandy Koufax.
2005-10-17 10:59:08
273.   sanchez101
270. they're not close, especially since the A's already have a centerfielder. I wouldnt be suprised to see Milton end up in Boston if Damon signs elsewhere and epstien is still in charge.
2005-10-17 10:59:25
274.   FirstMohican
272 - You sure Milton Bradley isn't on the list?
2005-10-17 11:04:44
275.   blue22
270 - It's ok. Don't get bent out of shape here. You cited VORP's. If you look at VORP's as related to salary, Bradley and Zito look much more similar (and that's with a partial season from Bradley). The A's have to look at both production and payroll. Zito is a fine pitcher at $4.5M, but at $8.5M? When you have a staff of young pitchers at minimum salaries to take his place?

The Zito/Weaver comparison is based on committing a long term contract, and therefore blocking roster spots for our pitching prospects down the line, to a non-ace pitcher. Zito is not the type of pitcher I'm going to commit $9M per year for the next 4-5 years.

And if Beane can get another package of prospects like Barton/Haren/Calero for Zito, good for him.

2005-10-17 11:16:09
276.   FirstMohican
275 - And if Beane can get another package of prospects like Barton/Haren/Calero for Zito, good for him.

You're right. Besides, we can save Bradley for when we aquire Johan.

2005-10-17 11:18:38
277.   blue22
272 - I would also greenlight a Milton for Johan trade. Based on VORP analysis, blah blah blah...

Just trying to pass some time here. It's not like I'm trying to pass off Werth for ARod.

2005-10-17 11:35:31
278.   blue22
And, just as a point of reference, nate had the A's trading Zito and Juan Cruz for Aubrey Huff and Justin Orenduff.

The Dodgers were giving up Orenduff, Delwyn Young, and Chuck Tiffany to get Zito.

Depending on your opinion of Cruz vs. Orenduff, I think I'd rather have Milton than Huff.

2005-10-17 11:47:14
279.   Uncle Miltie
Milton for Zito? Both are under control for 1 more year. Why wouldn't the A's just keep Zito and let him walk, or sign Bradley when he's a FA.

As for Milton in Boston- they don't take kindly to black folk

2005-10-17 11:47:15
280.   sanchez101
im not crazy about nate's proposed trade, i think that the Dodgers could get a pitcher reasonably close to Zito's quality without giving up orenduff, young, and tiffany. Orenduff could be ready as soon as midseason and young could provide outfield depth behind drew, werth, and bradley, all of whom are injury prone. It isnt worth it for one year of Zito, so he would have to sign an extension and he's probably expecting as much or more than Weaver.
2005-10-17 11:47:34
281.   student of the game
Is Byung-Hyum Kim a free agent? If so, I think he might be worth taking a look at. His stats aren't much to look at (8.9 VORP), however, he finshed strong- perhaps turned a corner- and might not demand a large contract.
2005-10-17 11:47:37
282.   student of the game
Is Byung-Hyum Kim a free agent? If so, I think he might be worth taking a look at. His stats aren't much to look at (8.9 VORP), however, he finshed strong- perhaps turned a corner- and might not demand a large contract.
2005-10-17 11:52:23
283.   sanchez101
279. The reason i think Boston would work for Bradley is because he wouldnt be expected to have some sort of leadership role (which was expected of him in Cleveland and LA), with Varitek and Schilling around he would know his place. And Bradley is a very intense competitor and i think Red Sox nation respect that. Bradley is the complete opposite of Manny, he is competative and intense to a fault. Plus he's cheap, plays good defense, and gets on base, things that Bostons front office values. Of course, that would only happen if Damon didnt come back and a trade with the mets for Beltran didnt work out.
2005-10-17 11:53:45
284.   sanchez101
281. ive thought that kim would be a great option, hed be cheap and he had a solid season by Colorado's standards. Plus, if Depo signed him, Plascke would go crazy.
2005-10-17 11:55:25
285.   Uncle Miltie
283- another reason why Boston would be a terrible place for Bradley- Curt Schilling- a fundamental Christian (yes I know Bradley's religious) and a pompous ass.
2005-10-17 11:56:53
286.   sanchez101
just to add to 284, Kims translated peripheral stats and translated era are better than Weaver's. Pecota also likes Kim better than Weaver in 2006 through 2008. He might be the best bargain of the offseason.
2005-10-17 11:57:48
287.   blue22
279 - If I'm reading Zito's contract properly, he gets a $4M increase this year to $8.5M.

Significant contracts coming off the books for the A's this year:
Rincon - $2M
Durazo - $4.7M
Dotel - $4.75M
Payton - $1.25M

Maybe they can afford, maybe they can't.

2005-10-17 12:01:12
288.   Uncle Miltie
287- Zito's 2005 was actually 5.6 million because he reached all of the incentives in the contract.
2005-10-17 12:05:46
289.   Telemachos
The Dodgers don't need another middle-of-the-pack affordable starter. They need someone who can be a potential #1... be it an established pitcher (Zito, etc) or a young stud.

I pray we don't go for the Byung-Hyum Kims of the world.

2005-10-17 12:13:40
290.   natepurcell
i disagree completely with the zito to weaver comparisons. the only comparisons they have is that zito has a rubber arm like weaver, both average over 30 starts and 200+ innings every year.

but in the NL, espescially the NL west, zito would average an era of around 3.5

has weaver ever done that?

weavers career numbers:
1.32 WHIP
4.44 era

zitos career numbers:
1.22 WHIP
3.50 era

i seriously cant see how someone can say zito is just like weaver.

2005-10-17 12:27:29
291.   sanchez101
zito is definitely better than weaver, he is the type of picher that would really benefit from leaving the DH behind in the AL because he uses so makes so many pitches. Thats why he will probably ask for more money in than weaver is, probably in excess of $10 million per, and im not sure if he is worth that much.
2005-10-17 12:31:43
292.   natepurcell
In the NL, i think zito is a 10 mil a yr pitcher.

especially in dodger stadium. with zitos ability to supresse hits and dodger stadiums ability to suppress hits, i think he would do very well here.

2005-10-17 12:54:21
293.   Mark Linsey
I have no doubt that Beane will be willing to deal Zito for the right offer this offseason.

I also have even less doubt that some GM, somehwere, will be willing to offer a lot more than Milton Bradley

2005-10-17 13:12:59
294.   FirstMohican
293 - Milton Bradley isn't much. His number are solid when he plays, but his injury prone body coupled with his nonsensical behavior isn't exactly something GMs salivate over.
2005-10-17 13:24:01
295.   blue22
As the originator of the controversial Barry Zito comparisons here, let me expand on the Jeff Weaver one. Obviously the numbers do show that Zito is better. However, he's not a pitcher that I would want to commit beyond this next year - just like Jeff Weaver. If Weaver accepted arbitraton, and we could have him next year at $10M or whatever, I'd be fine with it. However, if he wants a 4 year contract he can get it from someone else. My feeling is that between Penny, Lowe, and OPerez we have enough high dollar, multi-year commitments to pitchers.

If we were to trade OPerez (to potentially clear space to add someone like Zito), we'd likely have to send a good chunk of salary along with him, which in effect gets added to the salary of whatever pitcher we get to replace him.

As for Zito for Bradley, it's an interesting thought in terms of value and fit, but I do assume that there would be much better offers on the table.

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