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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Times Extra-polates
2005-10-17 13:02
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

St. Louis at Houston, 5:15 p.m.

* * *

Under the banner of "Sports Extra," The Times has taken to running several sports stories on the web that don't make it into the print edition. Whereas until recently, the only Times web exclusives from sports were the occasional Bob Oates football column and a few other scattered pieces, Sports Extra now features several stories a day, bylined mostly by the paper's fulltime staff as opposed to freelancers.

And it's not just accounts of the Fillmore-Oak Park prep football game - today's Sports Extra, for example, has a National League Championship Series notebook by Steve Springer that print readers won't see, as well as stories on the Lakers, Kings, Mighty Ducks and other sports. It stands to reason that if this approach holds up over the winter, some Dodger stories will end up under Sports Extra.

It's a way for the Times to deal with having too much content and not enough space. Though it places some articles out of reach of computer-free people like my father, the alternative would be not having some stories at all. It will be interesting to see the thought process unfold over which stories demand print treatement and which do not.

An index to the day's Sports Extra stories can be found on Page 2 of the sports section, beneath the televsion/radio listings. Is this a further sign that printed newspapers will disappear completely in our lifetimes?

Comments (255)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-17 13:47:20
1.   bigcpa
This is the first domino to fall before we inevitably read:

(c) 2006 Dodger Thoughts, a Tribune Company

2005-10-17 13:47:27
2.   Bob Timmermann
It was Fillmore vs. Oaks Christian!

I was surprised that the NLCS didn't make the front page.

I was also surprised that Sunday's front page of sports was laid out with USC-Notre Dame on top. Then a smaller UCLA-WSU story, and then below the fold, the ALCS story ran.

2005-10-17 13:49:21
3.   Improbable88
Hope everyone saw the heavy pimping of The BullDog and Gibby in the papers as prospective interview candidates. I don't know much about Kirk Gibson's managerial qualifications, but maybe we're interested in him for another role on the team. Can you imagine the aggresiveness of Kirk Gibson, third base coach.

What is the smartball stance on aggresiveness on the basepaths? It surely differs from the views on base-stealing.

Regardless, I'm hoping Orel wows Depo and Gibby comes along for the bench coach ride...what a day that would be. It would immediately swing the media in Depo's favor, and if Orel can take orders, maybe that is reason enough!

2005-10-17 13:56:41
4.   Bob Timmermann
I don't get this warning:
* SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING FOR...
CENTRAL LOS ANGELES COUNTY IN SOUTHWEST CALIFORNIA
THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF...MONTEREY PARK...DIAMOND BAR...
LA HABRA...AND ROWLAND HEIGHTS...

Monterey Park doesn't border the other three places in the list. Is the storm just going to skip over places like West Covina and Industry and San Gabriel?

2005-10-17 14:01:32
5.   Icaros
Monterey Park doesn't border those other places yet.
2005-10-17 14:02:57
6.   Improbable88
5 - This will be SOME storm
2005-10-17 14:04:41
7.   bigcpa
You'd have to think Orel would accept the pitching coach job but might bolt when the first manager offer comes. I can't see Gibson being a viable managerial candidate. Something tells me they're approaching him about a bench job. I'm pulling for Bobby V for the big gig.
2005-10-17 14:10:52
8.   das411
6 - "He says, there's a storm coming."

"I know..."

Wow, that movie did take place in LA too, didn't it?

2005-10-17 14:11:42
9.   Curtis Lowe
5- Wierd I've lived in all those cities except Diamond Bar.
2005-10-17 14:11:46
10.   Bob Timmermann
Rain in October is fairly unusual in these parts. The average October rainfall in L.A. is 0.37 inches.

In July, it's 0.01 inches. But it should be sunny for the weekend.

In the Atlantic, they've gotten to the end of the list for tropical storms. They've hit Wilma. After this, they go to the Greek alphabet. Not being a member of a frat in college, I can't tell you what is after "alpha" and "beta".

2005-10-17 14:13:32
11.   Bob Timmermann
Now there is a severe thunderstorm warning for the NW portion of the county. And hail about an 1 1/2" in diameter has been falling in Arcadia.

So far, no frogs.

2005-10-17 14:15:07
12.   Marty
That storm last night was amazing. My house shook a few times from the thunder. One hit about 3:30 that set off a bunch of car alarms.

No frogs yet Bob, but I did see John C. Reilly a few days ago in my neighborhood.

2005-10-17 14:17:48
13.   Bob Timmermann
Some of us are very proud to have grown up in the part of L.A. depicted by P.T. Anderson.

As soon as I saw the opening scene of "Punch-Drunk Love", I thought to myself, "Looks like home."

2005-10-17 14:18:16
14.   das411
Any sudden unexplained electrical discharges? Followed by weird spherical burns in fences or the ground?

I think Bob is actually Skynet. Good thing he can't get me all the way out here in Pennsy...what th....

--CONNECTION LOST--

2005-10-17 14:18:49
15.   Purple Hippopotamus
The New York Times firewall experiment is bound to fail just as the Los Angeles Times Calendar firewall failed. Who's gonna pay for information that's freely available elsewhere? The New York Times is so dense sometimes. Of course, someone with access will just repost the article in its entirety on a blog or web page anyway, drawing readers and upping page views to their own site (infringers!).

As far as the death of print journalism, we've still got a ways to go. But if newspapers survived TV and cable news, it'll be a while before DRM-encrypted Sports Shouts take out the old gray lady.

2005-10-17 14:20:56
16.   dzzrtRatt
I just drove through part of the storm, downtown LA. Ka-BOOM, a lightening bolt came down right around the 9th Street exit, and then rain falling so hard on the roof of my car, I wondered if it wasn't "Chubby Rain."

I still remember a storm in, I believe, March 83, driving past the old Convention Center and watching parts of the roof being lifted off by a tornado. I was stuck in traffic on the 10-E to 110-N ramp that bends right past it, feeling a little like Toto.

2005-10-17 14:22:46
17.   dzzrtRatt
I was struck in the past by the Times' putting their best living writer, Bob Oates, on-line only. Was it because he's old and in the way? It didn't seem much like a strategy; more like a weak concession to Oates' fans.
2005-10-17 14:24:02
18.   Marty
16 I remember watching a storm around 1983 march across the basin, maybe it was the same one. I was in an apartment in the hills and watched it go across until it hit my area.
2005-10-17 14:24:18
19.   Purple Hippopotamus
Sorry, board. When Jon refered to "The Times," I thought he was refering to the New York Times. That's what I get for living on the East Coast.
2005-10-17 14:24:54
20.   Bob Timmermann
17

Guys like Bob Oates and Ross Newhan were the sort of people that organizations want to retire.

Shav Glick is still on the staff. That guy is older than both of them.

2005-10-17 14:25:15
21.   Marty
Oates has been to every Superbowl. He took a buyout a long time ago so hasn't been on staff for quite awhile.
2005-10-17 14:26:12
22.   King of the Hobos
I've felt one thunder flash, did a good job of waking me up right when I was getting up. I must say, it was quite helpful. After that, we've had drizzle and some distant thunder, but in general it's been dry and quiet. Guess I'm a little too far north (Santa Clarita)
2005-10-17 14:26:38
23.   Marty
When my mother died in 2000 I was going through some boxes and found a 1940 yearbook for PCC. Shav Glick was the sports editor there.
2005-10-17 14:27:18
24.   Bob Timmermann
Shav Glick was a friend of Jackie Robinson.
2005-10-17 14:29:37
25.   Marty
I showed Shav the yearbook and asked him if he knew my mother. He said "That was a long time ago"
2005-10-17 14:31:28
26.   FirstMohican
Last night I figure "Hey, with the weather and the fact that it's a late Sunday night there's no way there'll be line at Pink's..." No such luck.
2005-10-17 14:34:17
27.   Bob Timmermann
If Marty is struck by a sudden desire to go watch some motor sports, then we might have a story ....
2005-10-17 14:35:22
28.   dzzrtRatt
21 Right--the buyout. Now I remember. The future historians of the LA Times, or whatever it's going to be called after blog tycoon Jon Weisman buys it for a song, will mark "the buyout" as the beginning of the end. The best, most hireable, editorial staff grabbed it; the ones for whom the term "velvet coffin" was invented (because they'd never find another editorial job that paid as well), stayed.
2005-10-17 14:38:06
29.   Bob Timmermann
If someone from the L.A. Times invites you over for a meeting at the New Otani Hotel to discuss "retirement opportunities", that means you're a goner.

If Jon ran the Times, he would let the paper put the word "the" in front of Staples Center.

2005-10-17 14:40:28
30.   Marty
28 That's how buyouts inevitably work no matter the business.
2005-10-17 14:47:33
31.   dzzrtRatt
30 Very true. When I was young and naive, I thought of the Times as a sort of quasi-public institution, so it seemed like something of greater import than merely business.

Now, it's easy to imagine life in Los Angeles where the Times doesn't exist at all. I sometimes go a day or three and never open it--because I've already learned somewhere else most of the news I care about, and damn few of its features are of the 'can't-miss-it' variety. Even those, I often access online.

But, they're still getting a check from me every month, just out of habit.

2005-10-17 15:01:35
32.   Telemachos
I wouldn't give this creedence over any other rumor, since I heard it on Mason & Ireland, but they were speculating (based on insider tidbits) that one of the reasons Hershiser's name hasn't been more prominent was that he was still pitching for the Indians when Depo was in that organization, and that Depo might not have agreed with his approach (to pitching? to strategy? who knows).
2005-10-17 15:01:43
33.   Romyrick
off topic

If are going to see a "Halloween" type movie on Halloween please don't give you money too people who dont deserve it.

Don't go see Saw, Go see:

http://www.threeextremes.com/main.html

2005-10-17 15:04:31
34.   dzzrtRatt
re: #33

Is the above one of the Google page-view booster spamizoids? Someone was explaining to me how they work, and it's something to be discouraged, if so.

2005-10-17 15:11:18
35.   walbers
what would be sweet is if the stuck Simers and Plaschke's columns on the web so us paper readers wouldn't have to read them! talk about your wasted space....
2005-10-17 15:16:16
36.   FirstMohican
35 - sweeter than sticking a digital Plaschke on the web eliminating the need for a hard copy version?
2005-10-17 15:21:40
37.   Bob Timmermann
Take it easy on Plaschke. He's got nothing to write about now until:

1) the new Dodgers manager is picked
2) either USC or UCLA loses and he is disappointed by their performance on the field and lack of character
3) the Lakers start their season
4) somebody on the Kings (other than Avery) says something that he objects to
5) a man born with no legs tries out for the Galaxy

2005-10-17 15:25:01
38.   Bob Timmermann
Bobby Valentine receiving the traditional "doage" after the Marines won the PL pennant.

http://tinyurl.com/bzp9v

Yes, in Japan some coaches and extra players have 3-digit uniform numbers.

2005-10-17 15:40:16
39.   Romyrick
34.

No its just a friendly reminder that you have the power preserve art!

2005-10-17 15:49:45
40.   Curtis Lowe
33- Looks like a SAW ripoff. I wont be seeing SaW 2 in theaters because it has no association with the first (director/Writer) but three extremes looks like a japanese tales from the crypt.
2005-10-17 15:52:22
41.   Bob Timmermann
You know, if by some miracle the Dodgers had won the NL West and made it to the NLCS, they likely would be wondering if they could play Game 5 tonight.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

2005-10-17 15:52:56
42.   FirstMohican
Re: Saw...

Does anyone else think the acting was intentionally bad?

Most people I know who saw it... ...thought that it was cheesy. I felt it was so ridiculous that there was no way it was unintentional.

2005-10-17 15:58:27
43.   Xeifrank
So, who won the Oaks Christian - Fillmore game? vr, Xei
2005-10-17 16:00:01
44.   Xeifrank
33. You couldn't pay me to go see a movie!
vr, Xei
2005-10-17 16:01:56
45.   Romyrick
40.
33- Looks like a SAW ripoff. I wont be seeing SaW 2 in theaters because it has no association with the first (director/Writer) but three extremes looks like a japanese tales from the crypt.
---------------------------------------------
BLASPHEMY!

The only good thing about Saw 2 is it has nothing to do with the writer/director.

Takashi Miike and Park Chan Wook are insanely talented directors and to associate Tales from the Cript with them is... I don't know what to say, it's well it's disrespectful.

If we are talking about Saw and ripoffs, if anyone has seen saw, do yourself a favor and just go out and rent Se7en instead its about 10 million times better.

2005-10-17 16:05:10
46.   King of the Hobos
A nice 6.5 inning affair in Phoenix. The 7th inning stretch involved walking to your car...

Laroche 2-4, K, 2 RBIs
Kemp 1-4, RBI

2005-10-17 16:05:40
47.   dzzrtRatt
I'm bewildered. I thought this was Dodger Thoughts. Not Obscure Horror Movie Thoughts. But media mergers sometimes happen quickly.
2005-10-17 16:09:11
48.   Curtis Lowe
45- Why would good directors like who you mentioned bring themselves down to the level of competing with a cheesey horror movie cheesier sequel?
2005-10-17 16:13:27
49.   Romyrick
48.

I dont know why they make movies, I guess they like too or thats thier job. I dont know why they chose that profession.

As far as competing, I dont think they care or even know Saw 2 is coming out at the same time as thier movie which is coming out on Halloween because it is a horror movie. It's not exactly competition either, Jeff Kent doesnt have to worry about losing his job to Alex Cora unless Jim Tracy is watching the movie.

2005-10-17 16:14:19
50.   King of the Hobos
47 You missed the announcement? Xeifrank was behind the merger. Apparently studies show a strong correlation between the number of Dodger and horror movie fans
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-17 16:15:32
51.   Curtis Lowe
49- Comparing 2nd basemen to cheesy horror directors is kind thin dont you think?
2005-10-17 16:15:41
52.   Bob Timmermann
Oaks Christian 56, Fillmore 13.

That game was over once the Oaks Christian team bus made it over the mountains on State Route 23. The Oaks Christian team is loaded. I just realized that Clay Matthews is one of the assistant coaches. That guy is in pretty good shape for someone who was in the NFL for so long.

If Oaks Christian loses a game this year, I would be extremely surprised.

2005-10-17 16:18:31
53.   Romyrick
51.

No, I dont think so at all. In fact its very similar.

Alex "Saw" Cora is not a very good player yet he's supported by the masses and the media.

Jeff "3xTremes" Kent is very good and rejected by the masses and the mainstream media.

Sounds like a good comparison to me.

2005-10-17 16:21:21
54.   Curtis Lowe
53- That makes as much sense as comparing a stop sign to an Airplane.
2005-10-17 16:28:10
55.   Xeifrank
52. haha! I kind of figured they won easily. Like I mentioned to you a while back, the Westlake/Augora area takes it's youth sports very very serious, a little too serious for my taste. Oaks Christian heavily recruits in Vta county and they could probably compete with any team in the county if moved up in class. I wonder which high school Wayne Gretzky will be sending his son to. Scoscia lives in the area too. vr, Xei
2005-10-17 16:34:52
56.   LetsGoDodgers
From the latest weather alert:

-----------------------------------
AT 410 PM...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADARS CONTINUE TO SHOW SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS MOVING NORTHWEST AT 45 MPH ACROSS CENTRAL LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
-----------------------------------

It surprises me that anything can move at 45MPH in central LA county after 4:00PM.

2005-10-17 16:35:44
57.   LetsGoDodgers
Anybody catch the Romo interview on 60 Minutes last night?
2005-10-17 16:38:05
58.   das411
56 ---SKYNET IS VERY POWERFUL---
2005-10-17 16:39:31
59.   Bob Timmermann
55
Vin Scully is another Westlake Village resident.
Wouldn't Gretzky be living in Arizona now since he's coaching the Coyotes? And owning them also.

The allure of Oaks Christian can be shown in two ways:
1) the star running back on the team is Marc Tyler, son of Wendell Tyler. I believe he lives in Lancaster!
2) Westlake High, which had a great team as recently as three years ago, is 1-5 this year. Westlake High is about 3 blocks from Oaks Christian.

2005-10-17 16:46:20
60.   Marty
Ah Wendell Tyler. The man who got sick on the sidelines after eating a chili dog.
2005-10-17 16:48:24
61.   HomeDePo
59 - By Westlake does everyone mean Harvard Westlake or just Westlake?

Vinny's grandson is going to highschool next year(he does not play sports unless surfing counts).

2005-10-17 16:49:17
62.   HomeDePo
Because I know that Harvard Westlake is not very good football-wise.
2005-10-17 16:52:11
63.   Bob Timmermann
By Westlake, I mean Westlake High. The other Westlake was an all girls school until it merged with Harvard. I would think Jon would know when that happened.

Harvard-Westlake tends to be VERY good in basketball. It's a lot easier for a school like that to get good in that sport since you just need one or two good guys. Or be lucky enough to have twin brothers who are 6'10" around.

2005-10-17 16:55:04
64.   HomeDePo
63 - They are incredible in basketball. At my old middle school a kid averaged 33 points per game and went to Harvard Westlake. He did not make the team because he was not tall enough. The point guard for Harvard-Westlake stands 6-3.
2005-10-17 17:00:30
65.   molokai
Man I love this weather. Everytime I think of moving it is because I miss thunderstorms so much. The dogs are whimpering, the cats are crying, the house is quaking. Give me some more.
2005-10-17 17:00:42
66.   popup
Remembering Sandy:

Sandy Koufax made his final major league appearance in game two of the 1966 World Series against the Baltimore Orioles. Sandy missed the game one start because on the last day of the 1966 regualar season, working on only two days rest, he pitched a complete game victory over the Philadelphia Phillies to bring the National League flag to Los Angeles.

Jim Plamer made the start for the Orioles. The game was scoreless until the 5th. Boog Powell began the 5th with a single. With one out in the inning Paul Blair lifted a fly ball to center. Battling the sun, Willie Davis dropped the ball for an error. The next batter, Andy Etchebarren, hit an almost identical fly ball and Willie Davis made an almost identical play for another error. Powell and Etchebarren scored on the second misplay by Davis. Etchebarren scored later in the inning on a double by Luis Aparicio. All three runs the Orioles scored in the inning were unearned.

Baltimore scored another run in the 6th. Boog Powell brought Frank Robinson home with an RBI single for the final run Koufax allowed in his career. The 6th inning ended when the last batter to ever face Sandy, Andy Etchebarren, hit into a double play.

Ron Perranoski replaced Sandy in the 7th. Two more Oriole runs in the 8th ended the scoring for the day. The final score was 6-0.

Sandy was tagged with the loss despite allowing only 1 earned run in 6 innings pitched. He walked 2 ( 1 walk was intentional) and stuck out 2, and the Orioles reached him for 6 hits.

Sandy's lifetime World Series record is unbelievable: 8 games, 7 starts, 4 complete games, 2 complete game shutouts, 4 wins, 3 losses, 36 hits allowed in 57 innings pitched, 61 strikeouts, 11 walks and a 0.95 ERA. In his 3 World Series losses, Sandy pitched 19 innings, gave up 3 earned runs, and received zero run support from his Dodger teammates.

Sandy is the best pitcher I have ever seen.

Thanks to retrosheet.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 17:06:46
67.   molokai
Wendell Tyler is one of my all-time favorite players. Saw him help UCLA beat Archie Griffin and Ohio State in the Rose Bowl and then he became a Ram when they were the LA Rams and people cared. Hadn't thought about him in 20 years. Good memories.
2005-10-17 17:10:19
68.   Bob Timmermann
Best pitchers I've seen in person (judging by how well they pitched when I saw them):
1) Roger Clemens
2) Hideo Nomo
3) Dennis Eckersley
4) Eric Gagne
2005-10-17 17:12:38
69.   Jon Weisman
63 - I know for damn sure it happened after 1985, regrettably.

My short-lived acting career occurred mainly in plays at Westlake (our future merger partner), motivated mainly by the desire to be with the opposite sex.

The merger happened around 1990, while I was at the Daily News. I got to cover the impact it would have on the schools' sports programs and the nickname change. Apparently, girls don't want to be Saracens.

By the way, my senior year, the Harvard basketball team won one game.

2005-10-17 17:16:58
70.   Jon Weisman
According to MLB.com, the Yankees have received permission to talk with Leo Mazzone.
2005-10-17 17:19:50
71.   HomeDePo
68 - When did Nomo pitch and did you ever see Hershiser? Orel was much better than Hideo unless you saw Hideo in Colorado.
2005-10-17 17:21:00
72.   regfairfield
70 Why on Earth would the Braves let anyone touch Mazzone?
2005-10-17 17:21:47
73.   Bob Timmermann
I saw Nomo strike out 17. I'm just going on games I saw the player pitch in person.

It's not an absolute ranking. I've seen Clemens several times in three different decades and he's always been dominant even though he's lost twice. Once 1-0 to Dave Stewart and last year to Wilson Alvarez.

Harvard and Westlake merged in 1991 according to an LA Times story.

2005-10-17 17:39:26
74.   molokai
1. Ramon Martinez -1990 against Atlanta. I think he struck out 18. Greatest game I've ever seen pitched.
2. Frank Tanana - 75-77 saw him several times and man was he impressive
3. Fernando - 81 - start of career was unhittable and I was lucky enough to catch a couple of those games but the game I remember was in late August against the Cubs. Loved that screwball.
4. Orel in 88, I caught one of those games during the streak.
5. Don Sutton - threw a 1 - 0 shutout in my 1st Dodger Stadium game
2005-10-17 17:46:56
75.   HomeDePo
5 Worst Pitchers I have Seen:

1. Giovanni Carrara, on numerous occasions

2. I know it is unfair, but Sean Burroughs on the Padres in one game.

3. Scott Elarton against Detroit over the summer. Three innings and 7 runs. It was just the way he pitched that made me sick to my stomach.

4. Scott Erickson early in the year and it was sad...

5. I remember seeing Gagne start a few times and it was never pretty (but only when he started).

2005-10-17 18:03:13
76.   trainwreck
Awesome Romyrick I never expected to find another Miike and Park fan on a sports board. Miike is my favorite director along with Cronenberg. Park's bit is the best in the three extremes.
2005-10-17 18:23:02
77.   popup
#74, Molokai, I saw Ramon pitch one of the best games I have ever seen in the minors when he pitched for the Dukes in Tacoma. I saw his brother pitch in Tacoma too. Best brother duo I have ever seen.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 18:25:56
78.   gvette
68--Just because I once witnessed Doug Rau throw a one hitter doesn't automatically mean he was one of the greatest pitchers I ever saw.

BUT, I did see Nolan Ryan pitch against Luis Tiant in the late 70's. Ryan threw so hard that you could hear the glove pop way up in the "Ram" seats of the old Big A. Of course, Ryan lost.

2005-10-17 18:36:12
79.   das411
So did that ball 3 to Walker just become a make-up call?
2005-10-17 18:39:09
80.   Bob Timmermann
78
I'm using a very literal interpretation of "saw". It's just pitchers who pitched well when I was at the park.

I've seen Randy Johnson in person once. It was this summer in Toronto. He was horrible. It doesn't mean I think he's bad.

I saw Nolan Ryan in person only once.

But man have I seen a lot of Pedro Astacio and Ismael Valdez it seems.

2005-10-17 18:43:51
81.   popup
I only saw Nolan once as well. It was his last major league appearance. Saw Sandy in his last National League appearance.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 18:49:48
82.   LetsGoDodgers
The best pitching performance I saw was a Red Sox - Angels game in the late 80's: Clemens on the mound. He brought the heat, spotted well, and changed speeds. Looked like a man pitching against boys.

The worst was Gagne the Starter vs. the Giants on a warm Sunday afternoon. He kept throwing the fastball; by the 3rd inning even the #8 hitter was getting around on it. Everyone in the section I sat in saw the drama playing out as Barry came up to the plate, fouled off a few, and knocked out a 3-run homer. Gagne got the hook shortly afterwards.

2005-10-17 18:50:45
83.   LetsGoDodgers
I saw Ryan a bunch of times, but it was at the end of his career. Very impressive for someone his age to compete at such a high level.
2005-10-17 18:50:54
84.   Bob Timmermann
I saw Nolan pitch in 1979 against the Royals. It was the day before the Angels clinched their first division title. I won free tickets from KMPC to go to the game. My dad drove me since I had few options at the time for transportation as I was 13. The Angels won 4-3. Ryan gave up 3 unearned runs (because of an error by Ryan). The game ended when Ryan picked off pinch runner German Barranca off second base.
2005-10-17 18:52:33
85.   Marty
Best Pitchers I have seen Pitch:

Koufax
Gibson
Drysdale
Seaver
Valenzuela

2005-10-17 18:52:39
86.   Bob Timmermann
82
I was at that game I believe with Gagne starting. I think the game was on a Saturday however. I remember that the Giants left no runners on base during the game because all the runs scored on homers.
2005-10-17 18:58:22
87.   popup
Nolan's last game was at the Kingdome in Seattle. He was not right from the start of the game. Gave up a grandslam to Dann Howitt of the Mariners in the 1st inning if I remember correctly. Next hitter he threw one or two pitches and he was done. Went out with an injury and never made another start. I am glad the last time I saw Sandy went better than that. Very much better actually.

Stan from Tacoma

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:00:53
88.   Marty
Best pitching Matchups I've seen:

Sutton, Gibson
Seaver, Valenzuela

2005-10-17 19:03:53
89.   popup
$85, I agree with Sandy and Gibson. Never saw Seaver in person. Marichal would have to be somewhere on my list. Saw Fernando pitch in the minors when he was trying to make a comeback with the Angels.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:04:53
90.   Bob Timmermann
Sandy wouldn't have minded being in good health from a baseball standpoint until he was 46 though.

Nolan Ryan made his first major league appearance on 9/11/1966. It would be a nice story if Koufax pitched that day, but the Dodgers started Joe Moeller that day (the Dodgers used just 5 starters all season in 1966 and Moeller was the fill in guy).

Ryan relieved in Atlanta in the 6th inning. He struck out the first batter he faced: pitcher Pat Jarvis. He then got Felipe Alou to fly out and then struck out Eddie Mathews.

Jarvis, I believe, is in jail for taking bribes as a sheriff in Georgia. Felipe Alou is, of course, managing the Giants. Mathews is deceased.

Ryan pitched one more inning and Joe Torre homered off of him.

2005-10-17 19:07:53
91.   Bob Timmermann
I don't believe I ever saw Tom Seaver pitch in person. I know I never saw Marichal because I never saw the Giants in person until the 1980s.

I'm assuming that the first Hall of Famer I ever saw pitch was Don Sutton. It would have been pretty hard to go to Dodger games in the 1970s and never see Sutton start since the guy almost never missed a start.

2005-10-17 19:11:53
92.   trainwreck
Clemens (in SkyDome agains the White Sox) was the best pitcher I ever saw live.
2005-10-17 19:17:40
93.   popup
I remember in the late 70's after Bruce Sutter developed the spit finger pitch, Sandy was coaching for the Dodgers. Supposedly he had the best spit finger pitch in the organization, plenty good enough to get major league hitters out.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:21:03
94.   popup
oops... make that split.... i don't think Sandy threw a spitter.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:24:47
95.   Uncle Miltie
Terrible baserunning by Grud
2005-10-17 19:34:03
96.   Steve
73 -- That game wasn't the one where Nomo struck out all those Pirates then Worrell blew the save? That was me crying in Aisle 145.
2005-10-17 19:34:20
97.   gvette
1) Saw Seaver pitch for the Reds in '77. He was still VERY good. For some reason it seemed like I always saw Matlack or Koosman when the Mets were in town. Matlack was a great pitcher on bad teams.

2)Marichal still owned the Dodgers up to about '72 when he suddenly got old. Guys like Ferguson Jenkins, Dierker,and Bob Veale were always great matchups.

3) Worst pitchers I saw;
A) anyone pitching for the Padres in the mid 70's not named Randy Jones (Bill Greif? Dave Freisleben?),
B)anyone pitching for the Angels in the mid 70's not named Ryan and Tanana.

2005-10-17 19:37:22
98.   popup
Good ballgame. Wonder if Carpenter can go nine.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:39:44
99.   Bob Timmermann
96

No, it was against the Marlins. The Dodgers won. It was one of the worst days ever for traffic on a Saturday. The Dodgers sold out. The Clippers sold out at the Sports Arena. And the L.A. Galaxy were playing their first ever game and drew over 70,000 and the Rose Bowl was only expecting about 40,000.

All three events began and ended around the same time.

The 110 Freeway was very busy.

2005-10-17 19:40:10
100.   Todd
Yeah, some great pitching. Nice to see some really good pitching. Carpenter looking great, as Brenly mentioned, Pettitte not with his best stuff today but still good enough, and Steve Lyons as dumb as a pole still.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-17 19:42:21
101.   popup
#97, Zito reminds me of Matlack. Hope Barry has a longer career.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:51:04
102.   Tommy Naccarato
59 Yes and no. Vin has a house that is being built just off of the course at Sherwood CC. In fact, I think its supposed to be finished. He's a member there too.

Bob, I can't believe you never saw Seaver pitch...

Marty, I'm right there with you on the five, although I would probably put Ryan in there too, so that would have to make the Top Six. I also liked watching Jim Palmer pitch.

2005-10-17 19:51:33
103.   popup
Real good ballgame.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 19:56:28
104.   dzzrtRatt
When I think of great pitching, I think some relievers, because of the concentrated intensity, have "impressed" me the most.

Gagne
Gossage
Sutter
Percival

I also remember enjoying a great performance by Orel before '88, and a similar great performance by Greg Maddux, late in his career.

Most overpowering starters I've seen: Seaver. Mike Scott. Kevin Brown.

When I saw Astacio early in his career I was sure he'd be great, and I was wrong. When I saw Ramon Martinez early in his career, I was convinced he'd be great and I was almost right.

2005-10-17 19:56:44
105.   Todd
Does Lamb know that he has to have his foot on the bag when he catches the ball?
2005-10-17 19:58:06
106.   das411
Yeah, yeah, I guess that ball was foul, HORRIBLE decision by Yadier though
2005-10-17 19:58:18
107.   Tommy Naccarato
Iron Mike Marshall
2005-10-17 20:00:04
108.   popup
Tommy, I liked watching Palmer except when he pitched against Sandy.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:02:04
109.   Bob Timmermann
Hector Luna meet Kelvim Escobar.

You two have a lot to discuss.

2005-10-17 20:02:59
110.   Tommy Naccarato
Popup,
This would be very true, and of course that was a very painful series to both watch and experience. I still seeth from the fall of 1966.
2005-10-17 20:05:35
111.   rageon
From the LA Times: "Hershiser said he would be interested in either the managerial opening or becoming part of the front-office team. 'Just as I was excited in the Oakland job, I'm even more excited about the Dodger job,' Hershiser said. 'I have a special affinity for the Dodgers. I'm also excited about remaining the Texas Ranger pitching coach and finishing the job we started.'"

I really have no idea what kind of manager Orel would make, but all managerial skills equal, he is the guy I'd most want with the job. I'd like to think he impresses DePo at an interview, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Regarding Bobby V., wasn't Dave Wallace the pitching coach on the Mets team than he took to the World Series? The prospect of bringing back Wallace would be a plus for hiring Valentine.

I'm disappointed I missed the conversation about Saw. Was it a great film? No, but it was a pretty fun movie in my opinion. Considering how rarely a decent scarey movie comes along, I think it more than accomplished its goal. I haven't seen a horror-flick better than it since The Ring came out. To the person who said the sequel to Saw has no connection to the original, Whannell is listed as co-writer of both movies. And regarding the acting, my first thought was that it was incredibly bad, but then I realized that I really don't know (and have no desire to find out) how someone would actually behave if put in the same situation. So I decided to ignore it rather than worry about it. Then again, perhaps my impression of the movie is biased because when I went to it, someone literally passed out in the isle while trying to leave during the part where Laura recalls her escape.

2005-10-17 20:06:51
112.   das411
Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has left the building...

and the Astros are six outs away from the World Series

2005-10-17 20:07:05
113.   popup
dzzrt, Ramon Martinez was terrific as a young pitcher. I saw him and his brother in the minors. I though Ramon was the better of the two, though Pedro was very impressive as well.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:09:04
114.   Bob Timmermann
I will bring this up again. The Astros were shut out 17 times in the regular season. So were the 1966 Dodgers.

That World Series didn't end well for the Dodgers despite their great pitching.

2005-10-17 20:12:38
115.   trainwreck
111-
I think 28 Days Later and Cabin Fever are two horror movies off the top of my head that came out after Ring and before Saw came out that were good (I think 28 Days Later is an all time classic). I am sure there are more if I bothered to think about it.
2005-10-17 20:15:09
116.   Bob Timmermann
On a night of the full moon, who makes the big error?

Hector Luna.

2005-10-17 20:15:34
117.   Tommy Naccarato
The Dodgers were asleep at that Series. It would have made it two in a row, three in four years. I remember the Dodgers opening up at home and only scoring like two runs the entire series.
2005-10-17 20:17:05
118.   popup
Looks like lots of good pitching in the W.S. if the Astros get 3 more outs. Hope it is not too cold in Chicago.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:18:52
119.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers did bat .142 in that World Series. 17 for 120. With 1 home run (Lefebvre in Game 1)

The Orioles used just four pitchers: McNally, Bunker, Palmer, and Drabowsky.

2005-10-17 20:19:02
120.   gvette
114--'66 Dodgers are the only team that makes the '05 Angels look like an offensive powerhouse. Always hated Davey Johnson, even when he managed the Dodgers, because he was a '66 Oriole. Only thing worse than that World Series was the way Bavasi dismantled that team (Wills,T. Davis) in the offseason.

113-- Whatever happened to the third Martinez, Jesus the lefthander?

104-- Always thought that Sutcliffe, Sid Fernandez and Dave Stewart (if he learned an off speed pitch) would be good. Turned out they were, just not with the Dodgers.

How does the network sell a World Series involving teams that no one outside of their fan base cares about?

2005-10-17 20:19:35
121.   das411
Let's hear it for Larry Walker while we are at it. He has had a nice career, too bad that it has to end this way.

And yes Bob, the last game at Busch Stadium has been played.

2005-10-17 20:26:02
122.   Bob Timmermann
Last hit at Busch Stadium: Vladimir Nunez
Last batter at Busch Stadium: John Mabry
Last home run at Busch Stadium: Albert Pujols
2005-10-17 20:28:17
123.   Tommy Naccarato
I hated Davey Johnson also. Boog Powell too. that was until the Dodgers picked him up.

The sight of elderly Boog Powell in a Dodger uniform--absolutely wonderful.....

2005-10-17 20:28:32
124.   popup
It is always difficult to pinpoint a reason for why a team struggles. 62 Dodgers had lots of firepower but they could not score at the end of the season. 66 Dodgers had not so much offense and they could not score at the end of the season. I had the feeling that the 66 Dodgers, like the Angels this year, were just worn out by the time they were playing their last games.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:31:17
125.   Tommy Naccarato
It would be interesting for someone to look and see how many runs the Dodgers scored in 62 compared to 1966. From memory, it wasn't a lot in 66' and even worse in 67'!
2005-10-17 20:31:46
126.   MikeB
37. Bob - very late - but that is a very funny post. Love the line about the Galaxy. You should be a sportswriter. ;>)

Best (Favorite) Starters I've Seen In Person
Sandy Koufax - best all-time
Don Drysdale - saw him pitch dozens of times including my first ever Dodger game in '58 at the Coliseum; my favorite all-time Dodger
Nolan Ryan - talk about your all-time bone head trades; Buzzie said all he needed was two guys who could win 8 games each to replace the Express
Schilling - watched him pitch shutouts for three different teams in three different ballparks
Maddux - the smartest pitcher to ever throw a baseball (in my lifetime)

Somehow, I've never seen Clemens throw in person.

Relievers
Rollie Fingers
Goose Gossage
Ryen Duren (just plain scary - a tribute to the first Angel team ever)
Mike Marshall
Eric Gagne

2005-10-17 20:31:50
127.   dzzrtRatt
120 That ship sailed days ago when the Yankees and Red Sox were eliminated. Them and the Cubs are the only national teams. Even the Braves, with their superstation, are the team of their region only.

So how do you sell it? Don't ask. The producers will come up with "storylines," which they will flog every game. Some that come to mind:

Ozzie Guillen--what a card!
Chris Burke--Outa nowhere!
The Killer B's--What a way to go!
Roger Clemens--the big adios
Paul Konerko--Not good enough for Tommy? Wha? (Okay, that one would work with me, but not too many others)
Chicago--Will the Black Sox curse be broken?
Houston--After 43 years, they finally make the dance.

The problem is, they'll probably just pick two of the above and never stop pushing them.

2005-10-17 20:32:04
128.   popup
#121, I agree. Larry Walker plays the game right.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:32:29
129.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers were 2-7 against the two World Series participants.

The Dodgers faced both participants in the 2004 Series also.

They missed the Yankees in 2003.

They faced both the Angels and Giants in 2002.

Prior to that, the Dodgers had never faced both World Series participants.

2005-10-17 20:33:35
130.   Tommy Naccarato
Two former Angels, one on first, another at the plate.
2005-10-17 20:36:05
131.   King of the Hobos
I saw Ryan's last start in Anaheim and Ramon Martinez's no-hitter. Unfortunately I was 5 and 7 respectively and barely remember them.

Since then, the match ups I remember include the heralded Ishii-Elarton game, and more recently the Odalis-Schmidt match up.

2005-10-17 20:36:10
132.   popup
What a moment. Albert can hit and Lidge can pitch.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:36:19
133.   rageon
115 As someone who claims to know movies, I'm a little ashamed to admit that I haven't yet seen 28 Day Later, so perhaps my claim of Saw being the top of the past few years was a bit premature. I've had the movie for a year now, but keep finding other things to watch instead. Cabin Fever had potential, but like the first 20 minutes of Jeepers Creepers, it soon turned into a pretty bad movie.

45 Yes, Seven is better than Saw. It also had David Fincher, Pitt, Freeman, Paltrow, Spacey, and a decent budget.

2005-10-17 20:37:37
134.   regfairfield
Holy crap.
2005-10-17 20:37:51
135.   popup
Wow

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:38:06
136.   dzzrtRatt
That pesky Eckstein!
2005-10-17 20:38:13
137.   rageon
WOW
2005-10-17 20:38:19
138.   Tommy Naccarato
The 1966 Dodgers were 95-67 The 1967 Dodgers were 73-89. In 1968 they were 76-86.
2005-10-17 20:38:34
139.   Bob Timmermann
Well, that would rank pretty high in the "clutch hit" department.
2005-10-17 20:38:39
140.   Nagman
Oh my. I had just convinced myself that I could watch a World Series with the Astros in it.
2005-10-17 20:38:56
141.   regfairfield
And, inevitably, Eckstein gets the credit.
2005-10-17 20:40:32
142.   MikeB
Quick, someone figure out a trade for Pujols!!!
2005-10-17 20:40:56
143.   popup
Lets see if Astros can come back. Terrific game. I don't think FOX will have trouble selling the World Series to baseball fans.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:41:21
144.   Todd
You know, that Pujols guy might turn out to be pretty good one day...
2005-10-17 20:41:24
145.   LAT
He didn't even smile. No celebration. Watched it for a second and troted around the bases.
2005-10-17 20:41:28
146.   Curtis Lowe
Did I just witness a live Casey at the plate?
2005-10-17 20:41:35
147.   Bob Timmermann
The 1967 Dodgers did lose Wills, but he had become a nuisance. He destroyed the chemistry by jumping the team in Japan. Tommy Davis was too banged up to carry on.

The Dodgers decline in 1967 was pretty predictable once Koufax retired. He was not the easiest guy to replace.

And by 1969, the Dodgers were pennant contenders again. They almost won in 1971 when the Giants tried to give away a huge lead.

That was back when 7 seasons without playing in the World Series seemed like a long drought.

2005-10-17 20:41:48
148.   das411
So now we WILL get to see Bagwell. This playoffs rules.
2005-10-17 20:41:53
149.   Curtis Lowe
Well thats what they get for celebrating so soon.
2005-10-17 20:42:16
150.   Todd
And all credit to Eck for battling....seriously, how can you not like that guy?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-17 20:42:17
151.   LAT
This time Eckstein deserves some of the credit.
2005-10-17 20:42:48
152.   D4P
Pujols absolutely crushed that ball. That was pretty sweet.
2005-10-17 20:43:18
153.   Nagman
The replay of the dugout reaction showed an amazingly stoic Larussa, as if he expected it... maybe he did.
2005-10-17 20:43:22
154.   LAT
he can do it all.
2005-10-17 20:43:30
155.   trainwreck
Even with Oswalt and Clemens to be the starters for the next two possible games, it feels like Lidge just lost the series for the Astros.
2005-10-17 20:43:56
156.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps it's time for some of that late inning Jose Vizcaino magic?
2005-10-17 20:45:14
157.   Todd
I gotta say, I looked at the score, kinda thought, this is the time for Pujols to do it. Didn't exactly call it but I wasn't terribly surprised.
2005-10-17 20:45:59
158.   Bob Timmermann
But Chris Burke is on deck!
2005-10-17 20:47:06
159.   LAT
So now he has made the first 2 outs of the 9th. Can he turn the hat trick.
2005-10-17 20:47:16
160.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob, I think the 71' Dodgers and Giants games were some of the most memorable in the history of the rivalry.

Do you remember the huge fight at Candlestick on a cold and windy Friday night. The next night they had an even bigger fight!

This is where I really learned to hate the Giants.

2005-10-17 20:47:16
161.   MikeB
Pujols
Vladdy Daddy
A-Rod
Bonds
No doubt now about who is THE best player in the game.
2005-10-17 20:47:52
162.   LAT
157. Apparently you and LaRussa. :-)
2005-10-17 20:47:56
163.   King of the Hobos
"Good" news, as in bad news:

A reinjury has caused the shutdown of lefthander Greg Miller in the Arizona Fall League, putting his comeback on hold, at least for the time being.

Scout.com premium article, I can't read it

2005-10-17 20:48:04
164.   Bob Timmermann
160

I do remember that fight. It's one of my first Dodgers-Giants memories.

2005-10-17 20:48:17
165.   Bob Timmermann
I hereby retract post 122
2005-10-17 20:48:26
166.   regfairfield
161 A-Rod? Because he still has my vote.
2005-10-17 20:48:30
167.   Curtis Lowe
Lidge kinda answered the question people have been asking all season, is Lidge as savvy as Gagne? No he lacks in several savviness departments.
2005-10-17 20:48:57
168.   Nagman
122 Did they start demolishing old Busch yet?
2005-10-17 20:48:57
169.   dzzrtRatt
All right, scratch the Chris Burke storyline.
2005-10-17 20:49:24
170.   Nagman
165 Could still happen!
2005-10-17 20:49:32
171.   LAT
Awfully quiet in Huston. Just when I was getting ready to become a White Sox fan.
2005-10-17 20:50:19
172.   dzzrtRatt
I've been rooting for Houston, but I have to admit, Pujols and the Cards have given me the chills tonight.
2005-10-17 20:50:19
173.   popup
Excellent game. If Cardinals beat Oswalt and Clemens they will deserve to play in the Series.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 20:51:00
174.   Bob Timmermann
The good people of St. Louis will be going crazy Wednesday. Crazy, in a St. Louis sort of way.

I think Pujols homer was more surprising than Henderson's off of Moore since Lidge is a much better pitcher now than Moore was at the time.

2005-10-17 20:51:02
175.   rageon
161 Now that Bonds is probably finished as a full-time player, there's really no doubt that Pujols is the best hitter in baseball. But I still have to go with ARod as the best player in baseball, simply because he can play shortstop.

And the last thing I'm going to do is move Pujols up, or ARod and Vlad down, simply because of a couple dozen playoff ABs.

2005-10-17 20:51:49
176.   Bob Timmermann
A-Rod can play shortstop, but no one lets him do it.
2005-10-17 20:51:52
177.   Tommy Naccarato
In 1993, my cousin got married in Palm Desert, and we are at this huge house in the desert with this great backyard, and my cousin, knowing I'm a Dodger maniac,comes uptome and drags me over to the bartendr and introduces me to him: "Tommy, meet Tommy Haller!" He laughed when I reacted indifferently to him.

Actually was a really good guy, and I told him I was going to give him a break because after all, he was a Dodger later on.

He was at the center of that fight that night in Candlestick!

2005-10-17 20:52:05
178.   natepurcell
he pujols going to end up the best hitter ever when his career is all said and done?

that was unbelievable. if it wasnt for the poles, it would have cleared everything in the stadium.

2005-10-17 20:52:53
179.   das411
121 needs to be retracted also.

Wow, that was....1986-esque. Wow.

2005-10-17 20:53:28
180.   regfairfield
Their offensive numbers weren't that far off this year

Pujols: .332/.416/.621
A-Rod: .321/.421/.610

2005-10-17 20:54:17
181.   MikeB
Albert's still playing.
2005-10-17 20:55:17
182.   Xeifrank
wow! That was as amazing a finish as the USC game. Exciting finish overload the past few days. vr, Xei
2005-10-17 20:55:44
183.   rageon
178 I'm one of those types who likes to compare players to the others in their era, and if we do that, it's had to make an argument for anyone but Ruth. Forget about adjusting to league average and just look at each player compared to the next best players at the time. Most years, there wasn't anyone in the same world as Ruth. Pujols is damn good, but there's never been a year where he was unquestionably better than the next guy.

But if you want to look at actual hitting ability, yeah, it might be Pujols.

2005-10-17 20:56:15
184.   Bob Timmermann
September 13, 1971
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B09130SFN1971.htm
2005-10-17 20:56:16
185.   D4P
178
Pujols has a great chance to end up as one of the all-time greats. The guy's only 25 years old. Amazing.
2005-10-17 20:57:02
186.   Steve
A-Rod gets points off for being a Yankee.
2005-10-17 20:57:10
187.   regfairfield
181 Doesn't that say more about the strength of their teammates?
2005-10-17 20:57:17
188.   LAT
Frank is back! Where ya been? See any good movies while you were gone:-)
2005-10-17 20:57:33
189.   natepurcell
But if you want to look at actual hitting ability, yeah, it might be Pujols.

using my silly logic:

pujols against broxton: 0-2 with 2 ks

OMGzz BROXTON IS GOING TO BE BETTER THAN RIVERA!!!

2005-10-17 20:58:48
190.   natepurcell
Pujols has a great chance to end up as one of the all-time greats. The guy's only 25 years old. Amazing.

so says his fake birth certificate :)

2005-10-17 21:00:05
191.   D4P
190
I think Matsui's is fake too. I'm 31, and that guy looks at least 10 years older than me.
2005-10-17 21:02:57
192.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt Matsui is lying about his age. That would be a very un-Japanese like thing to do. It's a nation of bureaucrats.
2005-10-17 21:03:28
193.   das411
I STILL can't believe how far that ball was hit. It's going to take all the guts, scrap, and luck in the world for Houston to come back from that one. One strike away!

Bill Simmons might have to invent a new level of pain to describe that loss for Houston fans.

Unbelieveable. If Jon is still looking for more drama, he is not a human being.

Wow. just...wow.

2005-10-17 21:04:02
194.   dzzrtRatt
Just checked Monday Night Football. The Rams are playing and losing badly. Fortunately, no one in St. Louis saw it.
2005-10-17 21:04:44
195.   rageon
190 Anyone have a link for the high-school picture of Pujols where he looks about 25 years old? If you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about.
2005-10-17 21:04:47
196.   Xeifrank
188. Kicking and Screaming was playing on the return flight home, with Mike Ditka as a soccer coach. Also saw some really really bad chinese movies on the 7 hour bus ride from Beijing to Handan. One of the chinese movies was based around these two chinese boys that both loved the same girl. They finally decided to settle their dispute once and for all, winner got the girl. Guess how they settled it? That's right by playing baseball. One pitched the other hit, a strike out and the pitcher won, a hit past a certain line in the grass and the hitter got the girl. Needless to say, I didn't see any good movies while I was gone. On the good side, someone did call my hotel room one night in Xian and ask if we wanted a massage. Unfortunately, my 23 year old nephew picked up the phone since my chinese is pretty bad and told them no thanks! :)
vr, Xei
2005-10-17 21:07:20
197.   dzzrtRatt
When you're facing a pitcher like Oswalt, you can't really depend on momentum to be worth much. In the comparable follow-up games to this vicious reverse of fortune, very few teams were able to come back with their best pitcher, at least not in fully rested form. St. Louis lives, but the odds still favor the Astros. IMO.
2005-10-17 21:10:23
198.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN News had this stat up.

Record when having chance to clinch LCS win

Cubs 0-6
Astros 0-5
Expos 0-2
Angels 1-6

2005-10-17 21:15:12
199.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob, Thanks for the link. Reading it all and reliving it. It was on a Monday not a Friday! (Duh!)
2005-10-17 21:16:03
200.   Uncle Miltie
Matsui is a rare bread of fairly young Asian dudes who look old. So Taguchi looks 10 years younger than he really is (36). If Matsui really wants to look younger, he should go to a younger team. A team that plays in a warmer climate and has blue in their uniform.

I didn't see the end of the game. I figured it was over and went to gym. When I came back, my roommate says to me "Did you see the end of that game?!?"

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-10-17 21:17:48
201.   dzzrtRatt
200 Maybe Matsui smokes, like so many Japanese adults do. That plus a career spent in the sun can age you.
2005-10-17 21:20:47
202.   Todd
But you could also argue that LeBron James looks older than his age. I'd say he could pass for about 27 but I don't think many are questioning him. Obviously there are probably less loopholes to avoid having a birth certificate in the States, but some guys just do look older.
2005-10-17 21:21:26
203.   dzzrtRatt
Dave Kingman hit a triple?
2005-10-17 21:24:12
204.   bokonon42
What a great game! Just read back through the comments; sounds like most people are rooting for the Astros. Is that anti-Larussa-ism, or is there some other reason to pull for Houston?

Any big Dodger moves, other than Tracy leaving, since the end of the season? My (four year-old) laptop crapped out about a month ago, and I've only just gotten back in the groove. I've read through the last couple posts, so I know about Orel and Gibson getting interviews. Anything else? By when do the Dodgers have to offer arbitration to Bradley, et al.?

2005-10-17 21:27:46
205.   gvette
Did Pujol's ball go into orbit?? Brad Lidge meet Mitch Williams.

160-- Was that the fight when Buckner went at it with all of Candlestick, after which Willie Davis hit a homer??

147--Bob, Wills' chemistry apparently improved by mid 69 when the Dodgers got him back to lead them in the NL West chase, and in '71 when he was ML shortstop of the year.
The '67 Dodgers could have used more worn out players like Tommy Davis. All T. Davis did in '67 (on one good ankle) was play in 154 games, hit .302, and drive in 16 more runs than the leading Dodger RBI man that year.

None of Bavasi's moves with the Dodgers after the '66 Phil Regan trade panned out until he left in mid '68.

2005-10-17 21:28:06
206.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think we were pulling for Houston. I don't sense that anybody here is pulling for either team.

In the last month, the Dodgers traded Cesar Izturis to the Yankees for Alex Rodriguez.

How'd you miss that?

2005-10-17 21:29:00
207.   D4P
206
And the Yanks agreed to pay $25 million of ARod's salary.
2005-10-17 21:32:54
208.   Sam DC
Fun -- watching innings 7-9 of that game in a hotel bar crowded with crazy Astros fans, and saying again and again, "you know, this game really isn't over yet."

More fun -- when Edmonds was up, turning to the loudest Astros fan and saying, "aren't you worried that if you walk this guy, Pujols is going to make you pay for it?" Answer: "He's 0 for 4 and He can't hit Lidge." Sam DC: "I would fear Albert Pujols if I were you."

Too great.

2005-10-17 21:33:45
209.   das411
Bob, I was definitely rooting for Houston because the team that pulled it together to win the Wild Card, plus that 18 inning game, just looked like everything was lining up right for them.

Even in the 9th inning tonight, they had a HUGE 3-run shot from their biggest bat, the closer they have depended on all year on the mound, and the Astros were one strike away from their first World Series ever.

Bok, there are probably several million stunned Houston fans out there, maybe even some others on this board. It will be well after the end of this series that I will be able to believe that home run actually happened.

But I still want to see Hou/Chx, if only for the 8 CGs we will probably see and the inevitable battle of wits between Phil Garner and Ozzie Guillen. Plus it will drive the Bronx Banter dudes nuts.

Now to try to do hw when every word I read will find me picturing that Pujols homer...

2005-10-17 21:33:51
210.   dzzrtRatt
LaRussa announced last week that he wants to be considered as manager of the Dodgers. So did Lasorda.
2005-10-17 21:37:44
211.   LAT
196. I had the same experience in Macau, only instead of a phone call they came to the room at 2:00am. Clearly, the clerk at the front desk had told the girls that two guys had checked in a few hours earlier. That was in 1988. Gald to see the world's oldest profession hasn't changed much.
2005-10-17 21:41:11
212.   Steve
204 -- Fire Jim Tracy retired :)
2005-10-17 21:41:55
213.   bokonon42
210-Lasorda is on MNL right now insisting that he has no interest in the job.

A-rod for Izzy? Has DePo learned nothing? I question A-rod's character. Any chance the Reds would take him (and Billingsly and LaRoche and JtD) for Dunn?

2005-10-17 21:47:13
214.   bokonon42
212- Yeah, I saw. I know you think you've retired, but I bet not. No way the next guy doesn't drive you nuts enough to blog about it.
2005-10-17 21:49:02
215.   Bob Timmermann
Fire Ron Wotus!
2005-10-17 21:53:04
216.   Steve
I can't say Wotus without smiling. I think that's minus points.
2005-10-17 21:57:33
217.   King of the Hobos
215 That is fairly deceiving. Some of us are tired and actually believe the Dodgers would announce stuff like that at 10 pm
2005-10-17 21:57:35
218.   Steve
Steve Henson appears to believe it will be Fire Terry Collins
2005-10-17 21:59:18
219.   King of the Hobos
Maybe DePo could sign Molina to make the Dodgers good again. Just look at what Tim Salmon has to say:

"Bengie is one of those heart-and-soul-of-the-team guys," Tim Salmon said (and who doesn't trust Tim Salmon?)

2005-10-17 22:00:02
220.   Steve
Myself, I'm ok with bringing back the Dodger heroes, but they have to follow the same rules as everyone else. No bunting, play the best players on the team, don't turn every Jeff Weaver start into a psychology experiment, etc.
2005-10-17 22:00:23
221.   underdog
Speaking of the manager search, anyone else feeling like Pendleton is quietly, actually, the best candidate to surface so far?

I like the guy, has great baseball smarts, respected by players, came close once before to manage...

I really hope Gibson's not seriously considered, though he could be great as a bench or base coach. Would be good to have around but as a day to day manager, strategically? Nah, I'm not feeling that...

So far, of the names, Pendleton's the best choice imho. Or Lovullo.

C

2005-10-17 22:01:33
222.   bokonon42
Do the McCourts have a son who isn't on the payroll yet? If they do, he's my darkhorse candidate.
2005-10-17 22:03:25
223.   Steve
It's a little known fact that tomorrow, DePo is going to interview the author of Angela's Ashes
2005-10-17 22:08:35
224.   LAT
If he hires the author of Angela's Ashes, maybe the new PR guy will be the author of a Monk Swimmming
2005-10-17 22:12:31
225.   King of the Hobos
Malachy McCourt's History of Ireland is instantly my new must read book. I mean, how can I resist?
2005-10-17 22:13:12
226.   rageon
222 That's so true it's scarey.
2005-10-17 22:14:55
227.   Steve
It's a family thing. Like the mafia. But without the big bats.
2005-10-17 22:19:48
228.   LAT
Wall Street is on AMC. Hal Holbrook giving the "Man looks in the abyss" speech. Great moment.
2005-10-17 22:26:06
229.   Uncle Miltie
I hate Collins. Hopefully one of the new candidates has a great interview with Depo.
2005-10-17 22:26:31
230.   rageon
227 Brilliant.
2005-10-17 22:36:18
231.   bokonon42
I, for one, welcome the McCourt managerial dynasty. It'll make for a kick ass reality tv show, I bet. Those in-game online/cell phone polls are going to be binding, next season. He'll have some groovy catch phrase when he pulls a pitcher. . .
2005-10-17 22:36:57
232.   popup
I don't think I would hire a manager based upon an interview. Maybe a bad interview would feep me from hiring a prospective manager, but a good interview would count for very little. I agree with Uncle Miltie about Collins and I dislike Valentine even more.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-10-17 22:59:13
233.   Tommy Naccarato
gvette,
Yes, I do believe that was the game. Marchial plucked Buckner who attacked Marchial and the entire stadium and teams joined in the fight. It was unbelievable theater. It cemented my hate for the Giants. But I'm thnking now there were more games all of that season where it was just one huge fight after another.
2005-10-17 23:01:07
234.   dzzrtRatt
Hopefully, DePo's also checking references. I'd hate to think he's making this decision based solely on "chemistry."

I have this fear that Terry Collins has seen the writing on the wall for a year, and has been a serious DePodestass kisser all this time.

2005-10-17 23:07:52
235.   Tommy Naccarato
gvette,

Not sure if this is going to work or not--my first attempt at Tiny URL...It's the LAT article on the game.

http://tinyurl.com/96g8q

2005-10-17 23:52:08
236.   dzzrtRatt
From tomorrow's LA Times:

"The Angels will attempt to re-sign catcher Bengie Molina, a mainstay for six years, but they could be outbid by catching-hungry teams with deep pockets, such as the New York Mets, possibly forcing the Angels to turn to highly touted but untested prospect Jeff Mathis to handle their veteran pitching staff in 2006."

Interesting how the Times views the Molina situation in comparison to their hysteria about Beltre last winter. If the Angels are outbid for Bengie, I doubt they'll be accused of "dumping" him, and if Scioscia pouts about it and used it as an access for a poor record, I doubt the Times would be sympathetic. And, if Molina has a bad year next year for the Mets, I doubt anyone in the media will suggest, as Keisser did about the ex-Dodgers, that their individual results would magically have been different if they'd stayed put.

Which is only to say, the Times and print media overall has contributed to an unwarranted aura of negativity around the Dodgers; who in most respects are acting just like any other major league team in weighing options on their players who become free agents.

2005-10-17 23:52:57
237.   dzzrtRatt
access = excuse.

Sorry.

2005-10-18 06:15:14
238.   Colorado Blue
236 - And sadly, this is why I rooted against the Angels. The MSM has reduced to me to this.

RE Managerial canidates: Man, that picture of Pendleton on dodgers.com sold me. He looks "managerial"... I'm serious! TP for next Dodger manager!

Besides, "Fire Terry Pendleton" has a nice ring to it.

2005-10-18 06:16:45
239.   Colorado Blue
237 - Sorry Ratt, but I have to know how you fat-fingered and got "access" instead of "excuse" :)
2005-10-18 07:23:35
240.   King of the Hobos
Carrara and Wunsch are now FAs after declining outright assignments. DePo "hopes" to re-sign both of them

Numerous members of the Denver press (well, two, the Post and RMN) believe DePo will decline Dessens' option. They believe the Rockies have 3 FAs they have interest in: Mike DeJean, Elmer Dessens, and Julian Tavarez. They also want Shoppach desperately

2005-10-18 08:14:18
241.   werthgagne31
241
I saw that too, great news in my opinion, that both carrara and wunsch are gone, i hope depodesta is just giving a nice compliment to them and not really serious about signing them.
I allways thought that a lefty specialist is a waist of a roster spot.

I would like to see dessens stay, but that's the least of my worries.
2 starting pitchers and brian giles, and keeping bradley,cruz,seanz are all more important.

2005-10-18 08:26:08
242.   FirstMohican
Has anyone else in downtown seen the bungalo on scaffolding next to City Hall?
2005-10-18 08:46:11
243.   underdog
I think the Dodgers won't resign Carrara, but they may resign Wunsch.

Um, sorry if this is a repeat, but did anyone else notice that Greg Miller reinjured his arm?

Doesn't sound super serious, they're shutting him down in the Ariz league as a precautionary measure. But... damn, this could be great but he worries the heck out of me.

2005-10-18 08:50:47
244.   underdog
This kid could be great, I meant. Not that his injury could be great. D'oh.
2005-10-18 09:02:58
245.   dzzrtRatt
239
237 - Sorry Ratt, but I have to know how you fat-fingered and got "access" instead of "excuse" :)

Beats the #### out of me. It was after a long evening of working; some mysterious form of automatic writing I guess. I'm kind of like Keith Jarrett. Sometimes God moves my fingers and speaks through me.

2005-10-18 09:14:31
246.   Improbable88
More of this crap from the LAT today:

"Two of the other arbitration-eligibles are Milton Bradley, who clearly will be traded or non-tendered because club officials have grown weary of his unpredictable behavior..."

This anti-Milton bias is so disgusting. I think of all the terrible slants in the media, this Bradley vendetta angers me the most.

Again, it's like they are willing a self-fulfilling prohpecy. It is my hope that Depo is montiroing Mitlon's rehab closely, and will base an arbitration offer on the info alone. It is also my hope that Milton is far removed from this crap and will be willing to come back.

2005-10-18 09:26:13
247.   Jon Weisman
246 - Admittedly, I'd like the report to have the sources identified. But I'm not sure why you look at this as bias or a self-fulfilling prophecy, and not the media passing along what the Dodgers have been telling them.
2005-10-18 09:34:00
248.   FirstMohican
246 - I don't see that on the LAT... guess it's not up on the website yet?
2005-10-18 09:34:59
249.   Jon Weisman
246, 248 - It was the Daily News.

New post up top.

2005-10-18 09:42:11
250.   Improbable88
247 - When has a Dodger official EVER been quoted as saying something even close to this about Bradley? The only Dodger front officer to ever say they were dissapointed in Milton was Tracy -- Did we all forget how hellbent Depo has appeared on letting his acquisitions flourish??
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-10-18 09:44:36
251.   Jon Weisman
250 - Frank McCourt made his points about character in direct reference to Milton. It was pretty unmistakeable.
2005-10-18 09:47:59
252.   dzzrtRatt
Disappointed as I am about losing Bradley, I think Jon's probably right.

Think about it: Would you go on the record with comments like this? Who knows what their lawyers are telling them in re:liability, slander, whatever. So this is one of those times where, chances are, the reporter is capturing the truth even though their methods raise doubts.

My guess is Depo's been embarassed by Milton once too often. With Tracy gone, and Depo alienated, no one inside is fighting for him.

2005-10-18 09:51:08
253.   Improbable88
"their" lawyers? Who are you talking about?
2005-10-18 09:58:03
254.   dzzrtRatt
The Dodgers' lawyers. I'm sure McCourt and Depo are getting advice on what to say publicly about Bradley, or more importantly what not to say.
2005-10-18 10:41:08
255.   Improbable88
ah

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