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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Housekeeping Continues
2005-10-18 09:06
by Jon Weisman

I saw one inning of baseball last night. What an inning. The Cardinals do like themselves their three-run home runs in ninth innings in October, don't they ...

* * *

To make more room on the 40-man roster and avoid salary arbitration hearings, the Dodgers allowed relievers Kelly Wunsch and Giovanni Carrara to become free agents by making them offers (to go to the minors) they could refuse, according to Tony Jackson of the Daily News. Both could resign with the Dodgers.

Wunsch seems more likely, since the only left-handed reliever on the team right now is promising but tender Hong-Chih Kuo. Left-handed batters went 12 for 62 with a .589 OPS against Wunsch before he injured himself with a bullpen misstep. Carrara's fate could depend on whether the Dodgers and Elmer Dessens take each other up on their mutual option for 2006 at $1.3 million.

* * *

Bill Plunkett of the Register revisits Dodger managerial candidate Terry Collins' managerial history in depth today:

In Houston, the Astros took a 2 1/2-game lead into September 1996 but collapsed, losing 16 of their final 24 games and finishing second for the third year in a row amid grousing by players that Collins responded to the stress of a pennant race by becoming more uptight. He was fired after the season.

The end was uglier in Anaheim. Early-season injuries to Mo Vaughn, Gary DiSarcina and Tim Salmon in 1999 kept the Angels from meeting the high expectations created by Vaughn's signing. Nonetheless, Collins was signed to a two-year contract extension in May.

That proved to be a mistake when a faction of the clubhouse (Vaughn, in particular) turned against Collins, citing his failure to make the majors as a player for his inability to understand how to handle big-leaguers.

"It's unfair," Maddon (Joe Maddon, Angels bench coach under Collins and Mike Scioscia) said of that criticism. "Terry treated his players well. He was always fair. Sometimes guys don't like someone for different reasons, and it's easy to throw out something like that. It's a convenient excuse, but there have been plenty of successful managers who weren't big-leaguers as players.

"Let's put it this way - when men wanted to be treated like men, maybe they needed to act like men first to earn that."

One of the biggest challenges for managers is what happens when men don't act like men - or act too much like men.

"I guarantee you, T.C. has looked back on the situation here and thought about what lessons he can take from that," Angels outfielder (Tim) Salmon said. "You probably wouldn't see the same personality you saw here."

Orel Hershiser, Bobby Valentine and Kirk Gibson remain longshots to become manager, according to Steve Henson of the Times, though there are other positions in the organization that might be of mutual interest. Henson makes the point - interesting because of how it goes against the stereotype - that DePodesta has been continuing the tradition of bringing old Dodgers such as Dave Anderson and Steve Yeager back into the organization.

Update: "Although the Dodgers' list of managerial candidates shrank on Tuesday, when Terry Pendleton withdrew from consideration, general manager Paul DePodesta indicated the eventual hiring is likely to come after the conclusion of the World Series," writes Ken Gurnick at

Comments (195)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-18 09:46:58
1.   LAT
"Let's put it this way - when men wanted to be treated like men, maybe they needed to act like men first to earn that."

Great line, whether it applies to baseball or anything else. Are you listening Milton?

2005-10-18 09:48:06
2.   Improbable88
And speaking of Orel, Gibby AND Milton (see the end of yesterday's comments), could the heart and soul of the 88 winners, the same winners Milton followed as a kid, be the final sobering agents on Milton's reckless behavior?
2005-10-18 09:52:12
3.   overkill94
Even better news than the Gio outrighting is that DePo is either going to trade or non-tender Jason Phillips. This seems like a no-brainer, but it least assures us that DePo has none of the man-crush that Tracy had for him.

I'm really hoping we can re-sign Wunsch though, he should come cheap and be a good LOOGY like last year.

2005-10-18 09:54:30
4.   scareduck
What a jackass Vaughn was. Selfish, arrogant, and quick to turn on his teammates once things went south (I'll never forget his infamous blast against Troy Percival before the 2002 season), he became a joke and then an object of pity. If he'd taken care of himself instead of becoming a zepplin, he could have had a longer career; instead, he morphed into an immobile version of Albert Belle, unloved and unwanted anywhere.
2005-10-18 09:54:44
5.   dzzrtRatt
Mo Vaughn was a pathetic joke, the classic stereotype of a player who counts his money and doesn't do what it takes to win. Vaughn hurt his ankle early in the season, and yeah, injuries happen, but Vaughn was out of shape and it was the kind of injury you get when you're trying to do athletic things while carrying too much weight.

The ultimate addition-by-subtraction trade was when the Angels got the Mets to take Vaughn off their hands for Kevin Appier before the 2002 season. I'm convinced that trade was a key to their championship. Even though they had to eat the back end of Appier's absurd contract, he contributed in '02, but more importantly, he wasn't Mo Vaughn.

If Vaughn was who did Collins in, then my objections to him are somewhat eased.

2005-10-18 09:56:44
6.   scareduck
2 - Bradley will be lucky to get a contract anywhere in baseball. Look what happened to Julio Lugo: traded to the Devil Rays after he started smacking his wife around. With Tampa Bay's upcoming up-the-middle talent, he's one step away from being kicked out of the majors.
2005-10-18 09:59:42
7.   scareduck
5 - to this day, the dugout guards in Angels Stadium are known as "Mo Vaughn fences".
2005-10-18 10:01:06
8.   Tommy Naccarato
It's no secret that Terry Collins is a discplinarian.

IF Milton Bradley WERE to be retained, that could be viewed as a huge accident waiting to happen--somewhere along the lines of P.J. Carlissimo/Latrell Sprewell.

From the LAT article, it's funny how all of a sudden it went from being soley DePodesta's choice to now involvement from Frank McCourt.

I would love to be a fly on the wall of the interview between Kirk Gibson and Frank McCourt, just to see the reaction on Gibson's face of what an actual imbecile MLB owner looks and sounds like.

2005-10-18 10:01:50
9.   Bob Timmermann
Did Collins get along well with Jim Edmonds? I never knew if it was Angels management that wanted Edmonds out or his teammates?
2005-10-18 10:07:05
10.   Improbable88
2,6 - Read the Bible. Real mean DO smack their wives around!

But seriously, and ironically considering the Bible reference, shouldn't Milton get one more chance? Forgiveness? Anyone? Julio Lugo didn't go through all the things Milton did to try and get his life straight. And Milton WAS making progress. In regards to 6, to think that a player as talented as Milton would not be playing baseball next year seems crazy to me.

There is a lot of stone-throwing in regards to this young man. And it's a shame that we can't do everything in our power to help him overcome his demons and own this city.

Again, the Kent thing is understandable. When two guys who want to win become frustrated on a hard luck team, something is bound to happen. In a kids game two grown men acted like kids...thus, ship a great, cheap outfielder out of town??

We should be further aiding him in becoming a better person, not booting him out.

All this from a town who's forgiven Kobe. Does Milton need to hold a crying press conference??

2005-10-18 10:09:07
11.   Bob Timmermann
Milton Bradley has already cried to the press. However, unlike Kobe Bryant, he's not as famous and/or comparably talented (in relation to peers in his sport), so he gets fewer chances.
2005-10-18 10:10:25
12.   Improbable88
Are baseball players held to a higher standard than those in other sports??

The Allen Iversons, Ray Lewises and Kobe Bryants all immediately come to mind.

2005-10-18 10:13:30
13.   Improbable88
11 - When was the cry? Tears of sissylike Kobe regret?
2005-10-18 10:14:04
14.   Penarol1916
8. Are you saying that Kirk Gibson has never met an MLB owner before?

12. I would agree with you except that all those players you sighted have had fewer incidents than Milton Bradley.

2005-10-18 10:14:17
15.   SMY
12 -- Yes. In fact, I'd argue that baseball in general is held to a higher standard than other sports. Not that I think that's a good thing.
2005-10-18 10:14:25
16.   Improbable88
After the bottle throwing incident?

So he needs to cry again?

2005-10-18 10:16:30
17.   Bob Timmermann
Baseball players could be held to a higher standard because, historically, the American public has viewed baseball as a much different sport than the others. Baseball is "The National Pastime" and all that.

Basketball, for all its popularity and American origins, is not viewed in the same way.

Football players tend to have the image of being mercenaries and warriors, so they can get away with more.

But baseball players play on big green fields and people take small children and we all think it's so wonderful. So I do think there is a higher standard.

One example of this is the Baseball Hall of Fame. People argue about who belongs passionately. Not many people not named Paul Zimmerman get all worked up about who gets into Canton.

2005-10-18 10:19:05
18.   scareduck
9 - word was that Erstad didn't like the fact that Edmonds postponed surgery until the beginning of the 1999 season, keeping him out for half the year. Of course, Erstad also supposedly (this from memory, keep in mind) didn't like the fact that Jimmy didn't hustle enough. IMO, Erstad has done stupid-bad things to his body, and while there was a time when he was the best centerfielder in the universe, crashing into everything has taken away from his bat, which declined scary fast.

I believe Edmonds demanded to be traded, but from what I can (quickly) find in the Times archives, the Angels would have had to get rid of one outfielder anyway, with Erstad, Anderson, Salmon, and Edmonds all providing quality bats. Edmonds, as the resident pain in the neck and the guy with the most value, was odd man out. But it's scary to go back and see what the Angels were contemplating getting at the time -- Adam Piatt from the A's? Talk about a bust...

39 homers in the Texas League, and never more than eight at any level higher than AA...

2005-10-18 10:19:55
19.   Penarol1916
17. Are you kidding? I'm still angry that Art Monk isn't a part of the NFL Hall of Fame, stupid sportswriters and their grudges against athletes who don't like talking to them.
2005-10-18 10:23:06
20.   Improbable88
14 - What about Jamal Lewis and his jail time? Kobe's grand jury trial?

These seem to be far greater incidents than calling Jeff Kent a good ol' boy, confronting a police officer or having a spat with your wife that does NOT even resulting charged pressed.

The more and more I hear people's reponses about Milton, the more and more I think him being Black and a baseball player have to do with it.

The more I try and see Milton's point of view, the more understandable it becomes. You can see why this guy has a "me against the world" complex.

The world IS against him. And don't say, "Oh, but we WERE for him until.." You help a struggling person or you shun them.

2005-10-18 10:24:50
21.   Improbable88
*does NOT even result in charges pressed.
2005-10-18 10:25:59
22.   Marty
I really don't see the love for Milton. A head case on and off the field, injury prone and maybe the worst baserunner in baseball. He just hasn't done anything in my memory to justify making him a priority for this team.
2005-10-18 10:28:51
23.   SMY
Worst baserunner in baseball? He'd fit right in on the White Sox.
2005-10-18 10:30:36
24.   Marty
Another thing on Bradley. We are all (almost) happy to see Tracy go and many have cited his clear insubordination as the breaking poiint. Well, Bradley did the same thing by going public with the Kent thing after being told not too. Why does he get a break?
2005-10-18 10:33:13
25.   Penarol1916
20. Oh please, I have no problem Milton Bradley at all, I just have a problem with your bagging on Allen Iverson, who has had far fewer incidences than Milton, but you seem to think is somehow worse than Milton Bradley. Also, Jamal Lewis never came up in your original post, Ray Lewis did. If his being black is such a big deal, then why are you holding up these other black athletes as counter-examples, bring up Christian Peter and all of those other white roid-rage filled fellons from Nebraska up instead.
2005-10-18 10:33:34
26.   Improbable88
22 - Yeah, the brilliant diving catch he made to save the game in Arizona in extra innings on the first road trip, the game winning single in the home opener, the "return the favor" grand slam against the Braves, the fire and intensity, the way the fans go crazy for him, the potential great human interest story, the fact that he financially is a steal, these definetly aren't good reasons to show him some love or make him a priority.

Oh, and there's always the biggest non-Finley game of the year last season against the Padres when he robbed a 3 run home-run in the top half of the inning and hit one in the bottom, taking the wind outta the sails of the Padres playoff charge, and putting us up 2 games instead of being tied.

Need I go further?

Hasn't done anything in recent memory, indeed.

2005-10-18 10:36:12
27.   Improbable88
22, 25 -- Again with the stone-throwing. My intent was not to show how bad these other guys are compared to Milton. But to show how worthwhile second chances can be and that EVERYONE deserves them.
2005-10-18 10:36:45
28.   Improbable88
(draws line in dirt in front of Milton)

"let he...."

2005-10-18 10:40:16
29.   Steve
Dear #26,

Please cease and desist all use of the word indeed to complete a point. This is a flagrant abuse of my client's trade dress and copyright, and we will have to take appropriate steps should you fail to respond.


Bill Plaschke's Lawyer


2005-10-18 10:42:04
30.   Curtis Lowe
27- agreed but this would be this would be his umpteenth chance, though I'm all for the Dodgers working with him as long as he is willing to work with the Dodgers.
2005-10-18 10:43:14
31.   Improbable88
30 - I am 100% with you there.
2005-10-18 10:44:18
32.   Improbable88
29 - I thought it was pretty obvious...but I am glad someone caught it.
2005-10-18 10:45:14
33.   LAT
You can see why this guy has a "me against the world" complex.

Sorry, I can't see why. He was born with God given talent, worked hard to develop that talent and was rewarded with a king's ransom and fame. What justifies his "me against the world" complex. He should view himself as one of the luckiest men in the world and conduct himself as such.

I agree many atheletes have done worse and gotten away with more. But, come on, MB's conduct is not even justifiable in the make believe world of professionsl sports, never mind the real world the rest of us have to live in.

2005-10-18 10:45:22
34.   subclub
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Deadspin just profiled out favorite columnist:

2005-10-18 10:45:22
35.   subclub
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Deadspin just profiled out favorite columnist:

2005-10-18 10:45:25
36.   FirstMohican
25 - I think you could argue that chasing your naked wife out of your house with a gun trumps bottle-throwing.

22 - Exactly.

26 - I wouldn't call half of a Milton Bradley season coupled with an inevitable incident at 4M a steal.

I could also list 3 good managerial moves that Jim Tracy made last year, but that doesn't mean he should've stayed as manager (I hope nobody calls me on this one).

2005-10-18 10:46:14
37.   subclub
35, Why do you have to make me look like an idiot?
2005-10-18 10:49:23
38.   Steve
Plaschke's trade dress, by the way, comes in lovely pastel colors. Very nice.
2005-10-18 10:51:46
39.   dzzrtRatt
I'm not sure saying "He's no worse than Kobe and Iverson" is the way to argue Bradley's case.

I'm an ex-Laker fan, and Kobe's the reason why. Not so much his repellent, hypocritical public persona, but the fact that this childish athlete, purely to satisfy his grossly mestastisizing ego, induced the Lakers to dump a great player, and thereby took a contender into the dumps. The fan loyalty to that preening narcisstic two-faced fool is intolerable. He wrecked their team!

The whole "gangsta" culture that's been allowed to grow up in the NBA over the past 10 years not only turns my stomach, it's affected the quality of play. Professional basketball is no longer really a team sport. It's "the game goes through me" guy, usually an insufferable egomaniac like Kobe, surrounded by interchangeable nobodies, coached by a coach who's afraid of his own shadow. The NBA is on a one-way trip to NHL-ville.

2005-10-18 10:54:43
40.   LAT
33. BTW, don't get me wrong, I want MB back. And I will excuse his conduct, not becasue it is excusable, but becasue I want to win and he is the best option. I cannot justify his conduct as reason to bring him back, I can only admit I am willing to overlook it for my own selfish reasons.
2005-10-18 10:55:11
41.   molokai
Julio Lugo will be a starting infielder in the major leagues for many years. All charges against him were dropped and the only reason that Tampa may let him go is because of his salary not because of any outside issues. He was not traded to Tampa but was picked up on waivers because they had 1st crack at him when Houston overreacted to the news and released him. If healthy, Milton Bradley will be playing for someone in 2006 and still make more money then probably everyone's combined salary on DT.
2005-10-18 10:58:45
42.   FirstMohican
39 - Is your reference to "gangsta" culture in some way related to Kobe? Because I'm not sure they had that sort of culture where he went to high school.

I think it might be easier to argue that Michael Jordan is more responsible for the "the game goes through me" attitude than your so-called "gangsta" culture.

2005-10-18 11:05:56
43.   dzzrtRatt
42 The two strains have merged.

I recognize that Kobe is a sheltered preppie who speaks Italian, gets his nails done, and can hold up his end of a conversation with a sommelier. He has more in common with Paris Hilton than with Milton Bradley. But part of the gangsta culture is an unreal sensitivity to any microscopic slight to the "respect" one thinks one is owed. That's Kobe.

And Michael Jordan never blackmailed his owner into ridding the team of a player his equal or better, just to make him feel better about himself. Far from it. It was only after the arrival of another great player, Scottie Pippen, that Jordan started winning his rings.

2005-10-18 11:10:34
44.   FirstMohican
43 - And Michael Jordan never blackmailed his owner into ridding the team of a player his equal or better

I personally think it's more likely that Shaq was more into the limelight than Kobe (judging from his look-at-me-I-give-kids-in-Watts-stuff-once-a-year attitude. Either way you're hating someone, and subsequently a franchise, based on the assumption that Kobe "dismantled" a team.

I just don't think that Kobe is the best player to represent your "gangsta" culture.

2005-10-18 11:17:10
45.   LAT
There are those who speculate that the sex charges agaisnt Kobe will actually make him money. Before the incident his shoes sold poorly. Outside of LA he was thought of as an "Uncle Tom" or "too white." After the incident he is considered to have "street cred" and has a new shoe contract. That may be the best proof of the "gangsta" culture in the NBA. What do you call it when an educated and cultured man has to dumb down and criminal-up to fit into the NBA machine?
2005-10-18 11:25:13
46.   molokai
The perception that Kobe blackmailed his owner into getting rid of Shaq is silly. Shaq sealed his fate with his contract demands plain and simple. Shaq may get another title but it is only from dumb luck that he ended up on a team with Dwayne Wade and not because he is any longer the franchise player he still envisions himself to be. Both these spoiled brats will probably end up on the short end of the championship stick because of their ego's. To hold Kobe totally responsible is just not looking at all the angles.

Clippers will now rule LA for the next decade. The worm has turned.

2005-10-18 11:28:07
47.   Bob Timmermann
The Clippers will rule LA? The team that has the only owner that makes Frank McCourt look like Walter O'Malley in comparison?
2005-10-18 11:34:13
48.   Colorado Blue
39 - Couldn't have said it better myself!

In regards to Wunsch: I like the guy, but the fact is I don't think using 1/25 of you roster should include someone with such a niche speciality. He's lucky to pitch an inning a week. I'd prefer to get or bring up someone is much more generic in nature (i.e. middle-reliever, 8th inning guy).

2005-10-18 11:38:52
49.   dzzrtRatt
Shaq wanted a lot of money; he's not Simon Pure in all this. But Kobe was holding out the prospect of actually joining the Clippers until he saw how the Shaq thing played out.

Don't forget, he also forced Buss to shed Phil Jackson, too, because Phil didn't give him enough respect, i.e. let him do exactly what he wanted when he wanted to.

Now Jackson's back because last season was humiliating to Kobe. And the slavish Laker fans and media will line up, pay the outlandish ticket fees, buy their dopey little car flags, and obediently root for their team. Kobe's "grown." Gag me.

Don't worry, the Lakers won't miss me.

2005-10-18 11:47:22
50.   Uncle Miltie
36- he made $2.5 million last year.
26- you forgot the 2 assists in one inning.

Who unselfishly moved to RF, so the older and inferior defender (Steve Finley) could stay in CF to satisfy his ego. In the past 2 years, which Dodger player has done the most involuntary community service? Which player on the Dodgers is the 2nd most popular player to Gagne? This is a man who has done the most work in the black community since Sheffield was here. If the Dodgers are serious about winning, then Bradley will be retained. If they would rather satisfy jerks like Plaschke and Simers, then they might as well get rid of half the players on the team because this is not a team built on "heart, soul, and grit"

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-18 11:49:05
51.   Improbable88
50 - AMEN!
2005-10-18 11:51:36
52.   molokai
Maybe Plaschke can hang with MB when he visits the cancer patients at Childrens Hospital and write a story about that. Don't know if Jeff Kent ever goes but I've seen MB/Jose Valentin/Jeff Weaver and they all were humble when faced with the real battles that go on in life.
2005-10-18 11:52:38
53.   Penarol1916
36. So one incident with your wife trumps three because it ended up outside?
2005-10-18 11:54:09
54.   Jon Weisman
48 - I too basically want to go with the best 25 guys, but I wouldn't rule out the idea that a good LOOGY is of value. If he doesn't take on those left-handed batters, then some righty reliever ERAs are going to go up.

We're talking about the 11th man on the pitching staff, here. If there's someone better than Wunsch, great - but I'm not sure that Osoria, Schmoll, etc. are more valuable.

2005-10-18 11:57:26
55.   Curtis Lowe
50- Agreed.
2005-10-18 11:57:46
56.   Bob Timmermann
I'm more curious as to how they will make Encyclopedia Brown into a movie.
2005-10-18 12:01:13
57.   molokai
I don't want to make this a basketball blog but since the Clippers moved to Staples they have been nothing but a class organization. As a season ticket holder of both teams the Clippers have always treated me better then the Lakers & Dodgers. DTS was a terrible owner but he could have taken his Clippers to Orange county and made lots of money. Instead he stayed in LA and I'll appreciate that. He is no Georgia Frontiere. He has stepped it up and I no longer pine for the days when I hoped he'd sell to Magic Johnson.
2005-10-18 12:01:48
58.   Improbable88
56 - Timmermann shows his age!
2005-10-18 12:05:42
59.   fanerman
56 - Encylopedia Brown... that brings me back to the good ol' days.

58 - I'm still in college and Encyclopedia Brown was an indispensable part of my childhood (or at least its niche).

Count me into the group that hopes DePo doesn't give up on Bradley just yet.. or at least that he looks more closely at the situation.

2005-10-18 12:09:23
60.   Improbable88
59 - Is this your 8th degree?
2005-10-18 12:11:47
61.   Bob Timmermann
Almost none of Encyclopedia Brown's cases would hold up in court. That bothered me from the time I started reading them. As I have said before, I wasn't a lot of fun as a kid.
2005-10-18 12:13:56
62.   Improbable88
60 - I didn't realize they were still making E. Brown books!

I can just see the antiquated copies of the books in my grade school library, thinking, "this looks ancient" even then.

2005-10-18 12:14:34
63.   fanerman
60 - I'm 20. I probably read a bit more than the average kid I admit, but hey.
2005-10-18 12:25:16
64.   Bob Timmermann
I'm afraid that "Encyclopedia Brown and the Case of the Secret Pitch" is a little after my time. It came out in 1982. Does anyone know what's it about?

Who is the Bugs Meany in Dodgers land?

2005-10-18 12:26:14
65.   Colorado Blue
54 - I'm not suggesting that the need for a left-handed reliever is not important, but I am suggesting that a left-handed specialist that faces 1 MAYBE 2 batters at a stretch might not be the best utilization of resources. Put another way, if Wunsch were capable of facing righties as well then he would be more useful a la Wilson Alvarez.
2005-10-18 12:31:15
66.   molokai
Nothing against Wunsch but can't we aim a little higher. Scott Eyre is a free agent and he is more then a loogy. His dad is a softball legend in Palm Springs so maybe he'd want to come back home to SoCal.
2005-10-18 12:34:30
67.   Jon Weisman
65, 66 - I am not going to take a stand against aiming higher. All I'm saying is that it's not automatic that you'll find someone better (or worth what they're asking in salary).
2005-10-18 12:36:31
68.   Romyrick
Why do we care what Bradley does in the clubhouse? You know some guys who yell and scream and say outlandish things, get in the face of thier teams are applauded (Paul Oniell).

I dont care if Milton Bradley and Jeff Kent don't like each other. I dont care if they come to blows in the clubhouse everyday. I dont care if Milton goes to the press everyday and says "Jeff Kent hates black people". I dont think this clubhouse ruckus is going change what Milton or Kent does in his 4 ab's every day.

We are in a position where we have to keep Bradley, theres not much out there to replace him. And this situation is probably a good one.

2005-10-18 12:37:48
69.   Romyrick

Isn't Wunsch effective against both lefties and righties?

2005-10-18 12:38:45
70.   LetsGoDodgers
The answer is, "Bonds, Helton, Giles (looks like he'll stay in SD), and Green, to go with Abreu, Thome, and a host of young & talented Rockies hitters."

The question is, "Why do the Dodgers need a decent LOOGY in 2006?"

I'm on board with re-signing Wunsch.

2005-10-18 12:39:40
71.   Curtis Lowe
69- Because of Jim Tracy's horrible use of him the world may never know.
2005-10-18 12:42:28
72.   Curtis Lowe
Did Wunsch just stike out 2 lefty's in a row with bases loaded for the first 2 outs of the inning after relieving Weaver? Yes, am I going to let him face the Right hand hitting pitcher? No, he can only face left handed batters. Am I going to waste a great outing due to lame Righty/Lefty combos? Yes.
2005-10-18 12:43:34
73.   Kayaker7
Why can't Carrara be out Loogy? I seem to remember some stats showing he's much more effective against lefties than righties. He's not going to give us the kind of innings like in the years past, I think.

As for Encyclopedia Brown, I loved those books. I still recall the case of the stolen goose. E. Brown knew that the breast meat of a goose is dark, to solve the mystery.

2005-10-18 12:44:53
74.   Kayaker7
72 Hasn't this parodying of Tracy's odd manner of speech gone on long enough? No.
2005-10-18 12:47:54
75.   Curtis Lowe
Will Jim Tracy use Yarr instead of yes now in post game interviews? Yarr.
2005-10-18 12:47:56
76.   rageon
18 In Adam Piatt's defense, the guy spent a year out of baseball with spinal meningitis and was never the same player.

Regarding Milton Bradley, I would be in favor of bringing him back at the right price. He's not a boyscout, but I think he's probably making an attempt to stop all the chaos that surrounds him. And I really do think that a lot of the stuff that he's gotten a bad wrap for over the years are things that would be ignored if done by anyone else.

Remember when Andruw Jones was an immature little punk? How'd that turn out?

2005-10-18 12:49:07
77.   Jon Weisman
69 - No, not really. In 2005 - small sample size warning - his OPS was about .350 worse against righties - it was a huge difference.
2005-10-18 12:50:57
78.   Curtis Lowe
Could Milton Bradley put up numbers like Andruw Jones? Yarr, Will he? That one be in thee fate of thee winds matey.
2005-10-18 12:51:22
79.   Kayaker7
75 He'll also get a parrot to sit on his shoulder. I think the parrot's name is Colby. ;-)
2005-10-18 12:52:14
80.   fanerman
73 - I remember one about Encyclopedia Brown's arch-nemesis (forget his name) drawing the stripes on a zebra wrong. I wondered how anybody could possibly do that, if the zebra is standing in front of him or not. I remember another about his arch-nemesis putting sauerkraut on his hot dog the wrong way.
2005-10-18 12:52:31
81.   Jon Weisman
76 - Is there some story about Andruw Jones that is remotely relevant to the Bradley discussion? Putting aside the fact that Jones has been more consistent, more durable, and except for 2003, more talented than Bradley.

I'm listening to the cases for Bradley, but I just don't get that comparison to Jones.

2005-10-18 12:54:41
82.   das411
Welp, as expected, here is Bill Simmons about last night:

"Monday night's nightmare qualifies as a full-fledged Stomach Punch (Level 2, one from the top) for Astros fans -- it only would have been worse if they were one strike from winning the World Series. Given the circumstances and the history of Houston's franchise, Pujols' homer has to rank on the short list along with Mookie/Buckner, Hendu, Grady Little, Sid Bream, Jose Mesa, Earnest Byner, Scott Norwood, Steve Bartman and every other ultra-excruciating defeat that can be described in two words or less. "

2005-10-18 12:59:27
83.   rageon
81 I'm just going off the top of my head here, but I remember Jones having a really bad rep as an immature player who was uncoachable. Specifically, there was an incident where he didn't run out a ground ball (i think) that lead to Cox pulling him out of the game after he had already gone out to centerfield. But no, I don't remember anything quite to the extent that Bradley has been in trouble for. My point was that both guys are/were young, and people will make stupid decisions when they are young, but we shouldn't write them off because of it.

I might be overly optimistic about him, but in a few year, I doubt we'll be hearing about how much of a bad guy Bradley is.

2005-10-18 13:00:45
84.   Bob Timmermann
Andruw Jones was starting in the majors when he was 19.

At age 19, Milton Bradley was played for the Gulf Coast League Expos and Vermont of the NY-Penn League. (Which must have made people lost all the time.)

Encyclopedia Brown lived in Idaville. His father was the Chief of Police. His nemesis was Bugs Meany. His friend was Sally Kimball. Encyclopedia's real first name was Leroy.

Don't call him Leroy.

2005-10-18 13:04:45
85.   Icaros
84 Bad Leroy Brown?
2005-10-18 13:07:33
86.   LetsGoDodgers
I'd prefer Eyre over Wunsch as well. In a perfect world, I'd take both and send Kuo back to AAA, but that's probably not in the cards. I'd be happy if this were our bullpen in 2006:


Decline the option on good ol' Elmer and spend some money on the bullpen.

2005-10-18 13:08:57
87.   rageon
84 I almost decided not to bring up Jones because of the age difference. But the point remains that the two were both very young and very rich at a young age. That's not an excuse for Milton, but it's a way to understand him at least.

Bradley just doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't care about people, so my only real concern for him is whether or not addiction problems derail his career, because that would surely cancel out my boys-will-be-boys theory. He's got the DUI in his past, something I nearly forgot about. But if things like that don't resurface, I think Bradley's effort in bettering himself will eventually pay off. I get the impression he's trying to improve himself far more than many other athletes who make excuses for everything they do.

Yeah, 19 years old, how crazy was that? The talent he had at that age was just unbelievable.

2005-10-18 13:11:55
88.   FirstMohican
50 -

We're talking approximately what he'll be paid through arbi next year.

Moving to RF was what an unproven, injury prone CF should do, and should've done when the more proven Drew showed up.

Bradley is injury and outburst prone. Bring him back if he agrees to play right and wear duct tape over his mouth.

2005-10-18 13:16:24
89.   dzzrtRatt
84 So, was Jim Croce's song really about an intellectual juvenile crimefighter?

83 I'm in the pro-Bradley camp, but you can't deny that re-signing him is a risk. He's not stable, psychologically, at least viewed from the outside. His "team player" rhetoric rings hollow after his public attack on Kent, which occured despite his manager telling him to keep quiet. If the Dodgers keep him, and I hope they can find a way to do so, it could go south very quickly.

That's why I predict DePodesta will let him go, despite the obvious harm to the team's offense. DePo's not feeling super-confident right now. He probably doesn't think he could survive the PR hit if Bradley came back to bite him. He trusts his acumen enough to think he could find the equivalent on the market someplace, and might be willing to overpay for someone with equal stats so that Bradley won't be so badly missed.

2005-10-18 13:27:17
90.   DodgerJoe
I'm in the anti-Bradley camp. I don't want him on the team but I don't see any other viable options.

Just my 2 cents....I think Shaq is at fault for the Laker demise (contract demands, selfishness, lack of playing any defense, not being able to hit a free throw, postponing surgery until after the season starts..need I go on?). I am in Kobe's corner on that one.

2005-10-18 13:27:35
91.   Bob Timmermann
I think Bobby Cox's problem with Andruw Jones were about the way he performed on the field. I don't think he had as many problems with Jones on the field except for the fact that Jones has put on a bit of weight in recent years.
2005-10-18 13:27:47
92.   Jon Weisman
I'm really surprised people haven't brought up Bradley's physical condition. You have to factor that in. I'm just speculating, but the biggest lesson DePo may have learned is to get a little more durability out there. And Bradley makes Drew look durable.

McCourt may have already decided the issue on a PR basis, but even if McCourt allows Bradley to stay, DePo might have serious reservations about the on-field Bradley.

2005-10-18 13:30:54
93.   Linkmeister
I'm confused. How can Jane Eyre be a LOOGY? I thought she was right-handed!
2005-10-18 13:30:55
94.   FirstMohican
This is one of the more divisive issues on DT. When we debate about DePo it's usually about who likes him more, or which DePo critic we like the least.

89 - I'm not as convinced that DePo will let him go. I'd like to see a contract reached w/o arbi for about 3-3.5M with the understand that he's no longer the CFer.

If I'm Milton I've got to be thinking "man, if I can stay healthy and have one solid year where I keep my mouth shut, I could get a pretty long and lucrative deal somewhere." Or maybe if I'm Milton I'm throwing a bottle, who can say.

2005-10-18 13:33:27
95.   Improbable88
92 - "Bradley makes Drew look durable."

They have both been pretty pathetic...but I think it's a knock on Drew before Bradley. They both played the majority of 2004 though, so here's hoping!

But I agree, if Bradley is healthy, you offer him arbitration. If not, then it's a sad end to a coulda-been type story.

2005-10-18 13:33:55
96.   Marty
92 I brought it up in 22. I'm obviously in the minority here on Bradley, but I think the only way we don't get another outburst from Milton next year will be because he's already on the 60-day DL.
2005-10-18 13:35:39
97.   Jon Weisman
What do you think Milton wants? Tracy's gone, Kent's still there. I know he's a local guy, but beyond that, do you think he wants to be back with the Dodgers?

It's not in his control, of course, unless DePo non-tenders him. But if Milton hypothetically were to say he'd be better off with a fresh start elsewhere, would it be wise for DePo to fight him?

2005-10-18 13:35:44
98.   Bob Timmermann
Eyre will be playing with Rochester next year.
2005-10-18 13:41:43
99.   FirstMohican
97 - Tracy's gone

That might have more of an impact on whether or not he comes back than anything else, I suppose. He sounded like he was into Tracy, and I'm sure DePo would rather not have insubordination in the clubhouse managed and coached by his hand-picked guys.

2005-10-18 13:43:32
100.   Bob Timmermann
Did you attend Gardena High?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-18 13:45:09
101.   Jon Weisman
95 - Look, I like Drew, and I always liked Bradley. Honestly, I'm really struggling over the domestic stuff. I'm with Marty in thinking that you guys are making too little of this, even though no charges were filed. I'm trying to listen to what you're saying. But there is stuff going on in Milton's life, physically and emotionally, that is going to make it difficult for him to play at his best. I don't know how it wouldn't be smart for the Dodgers to explore whether they can improve the team without signing Bradley.

It won't be a death sentence for him if he ends up with another team. Good people are told to hunt for jobs elsewhere all the time.

By the way, I'm not knocking Drew or Bradley to say they're not durable. They're not. It's just the way it is. Bob Timmermann and Kobe Bryant are not short; Drew and Bradley are not durable.

2005-10-18 13:45:35
102.   SMY
Ok, ok. I think we can all agree that the best solution for everyone involved is to trade Bradley and Phillips for Jason Bay. Then everyone will be happy. We could even throw in Grabowski.
2005-10-18 13:45:47
103.   Telemachos
99 If (long shot, I know) Gibson was the new manager, I'm intrigued by how he'd deal with Bradley. On one hand, I think Gibby would love his passion and on-field intensity. I also think he'd have little tolerance of off-the-field incidents.

I think Bradley could really relate to Gibson too... but all this is really wild speculation.

2005-10-18 13:46:37
104.   Bob Timmermann
There goes my first and last comparison to Kobe Bryant. (He's taller than me.)
2005-10-18 13:50:14
105.   Jon Weisman
A's announcer Bill King has died.
2005-10-18 13:52:24
106.   rageon
While I'm generally in favor of re-signing Bradley, I'm in complete agreement with those who don't want to depend on him to be there every day. Between the off-the-field stuff and his injuries, I'm certainly not going to have a lot of faith in him to play 140+ games. As a 3rd best OF, I'd be satisfied, knowing that Werth and Ledee/Cruz are on the bench. But there's no way we can enter the 2006 season with Bradley as our 2nd best OF.
2005-10-18 13:52:45
107.   Improbable88
I think the only thing keeping Bradley from truly disintegrating is being close to his mother and his community. If you can't act sane and respectably with your mother at the game and in your can't ever hope to.

I think Milton should cool down enough over the winter to realize this. He probably already has. Of course, none of the asshole Los Angeles press would seek out that story.

2005-10-18 13:52:56
108.   dzzrtRatt
I always got the impression it meant a lot to Bradley to play in his hometown, near his mother and other family members. I also get the impression that while he's got a nervous temperament, he's an intelligent guy, and he realizes that his breach with the club is completely his own fault, and he'll want to make amends. I don't think he can point to any incident of mistreatment by the team.

Most of the players respected and genuinuely liked Tracy, so I don't think there's anything special about that relationship. The guy seems to need a "daddy," so any authority figure will take on disproportionate importance for him.

This issue divides DT posters for the simple reason that there's no good option. It's sad and frustrating for those who want to see him go; it's risky and frustrating for those who'd like to see him stay. There's his offensive output, but there's also his physical frailty. You get the feeling that if we let him go, he might blossom into a huge star somewhere else; but if we keep him, he might damage the team for a third season in a row.

There's no obvious right answer.

2005-10-18 13:55:39
109.   Improbable88
103 - See comment #1! That kinda kicked this whole thing off.
2005-10-18 13:56:17
110.   Jon Weisman
107 - First of all, no profanity.

"I think the only thing keeping Bradley from truly disintegrating is being close to his mother and his community. If you can't act sane and respectably with your mother at the game and in your can't ever hope to."

If this were the case (and I don't think it is, by the way), then I definitely wouldn't re-sign Bradley. Think about what you're saying. The guy is close to 30 years old and you're saying he can't survive without his mother. If that were true, that would be an even more serious problem than what we've been talking about.

2005-10-18 13:57:10
111.   FirstMohican
100 - No...?
2005-10-18 13:59:55
112.   rageon
108 I'll say this with the hopes of trying to open up even more doors about race. I'm of the opinion that Milton would benefit greatly from being around an African-American coach that he respects.
2005-10-18 14:00:37
113.   rageon
112 Errr, I meant to say "with the hopes of trying to AVOIDING OPENING up....".

Nothing like typing the exact opposite of what I mean.

2005-10-18 14:02:40
114.   Improbable88
110 - Weisman lobs a stone
2005-10-18 14:02:42
115.   FirstMohican
108, 112 - Milton Bradley is turning out to be higher maintenance than expected.

100 - Why?

2005-10-18 14:04:27
116.   Jon Weisman
110 - I don't understand.
2005-10-18 14:04:50
117.   Improbable88
I don't care if Milton keeps his baby blanket in his back pocket. If he can hit 25 HR 80 RBI and play a great outfield, then you help him through his issues and play to win.
2005-10-18 14:05:08
118.   Jon Weisman
Sorry, 116 was directed at 114, not 110
2005-10-18 14:07:31
119.   ElysianPark62
Why hasn't Grabowski been placed on waivers yet? When (if) that finally happens, I will dance an Irish jig. It is long overdue, and it had better be forthcoming.
2005-10-18 14:08:26
120.   Telemachos
105 Sorry to hear that. He was one of the greats (though I think more well-known generally up in the Bay Area).

Assuming that the Dodgers even want Bradley back, couldn't they offer a relatively low contract with lots of incentives (for health reasons and for emotional outbursts)? Seems like a win-win scenario.

A one-year contract for, like $2-3 million with incentives that can boost it over $4million if he plays in 130 games and doesn't have any outbursts.

2005-10-18 14:08:37
121.   Bob Timmermann
I believe a polka would be the preferred dance to celebrate Grabowski's departure.
2005-10-18 14:08:40
122.   FirstMohican
117 - You're willing to put up with quite a bit of flack for the prospect of something above average occuring that has never before occurred.
2005-10-18 14:10:17
123.   LetsGoDodgers
The expectation is that Bradley would play 140+ games in 2006. His 3-year average is 106 games and he's coming off a serious knee injury, so I think 140+ games is unrealistic.

Like it or not, he's a part-time player. IMO, he'll command more salary than a part-time outfielder is worth. I would pass on him if I were DePo; let someone else overpay and roll the dice.

2005-10-18 14:12:37
124.   Improbable88
120 - That sounds wise. And I don't think any team would come out of the blue and offer him more outright due to his past.

Did anyone else love that Milton had to call his Mama over to settle him and his wife down after one of their infamous 911 spats?

I bet, by the way, that Milton's wife is as much of a handful as he is.

2005-10-18 14:15:30
125.   Bob Timmermann
If my mother were still alive and I was in a situation where I wanted things calmed down, I wouldn't hesitate to call her and I'm about to turn 40.
2005-10-18 14:17:01
126.   Curtis Lowe
Is anyone else worried about JD Drew's production potential next sesaon? He just had 2 surgeries, and missed a significant amount of playing time this season, Does he goto the minors if he doesnt produce in spring training?
2005-10-18 14:17:56
127.   LetsGoDodgers
117 - based on what historical evidence will Bradley hit 25 homers and 80 RBI in one season? He'd be lucky enough to replicate his 2004 numbers in 2006.
2005-10-18 14:19:22
128.   Improbable88
If anything, a strong relationship with his mother should be a positive thing. What we should do is get Milton's mama on the a Chunky soup commercial, and keep Milton in check.

And who doesn't love Milton's emphatic points to her after homeruns and big hits?

2005-10-18 14:19:44
129.   Jon Weisman
I call my mother and father when I'm upset. I'm pro-mother-calling.

126 - I'm kind of hoping that the fact that he will have had nine months off actually works in his favor, that time will have healed his wounds.

There is 0 percent chance he will go to the minors except on a rehab assignment.

2005-10-18 14:19:50
130.   Romyrick
I thought the wife was the source of the 911 calls not Bradley, in other words he was the one calling the police on her. I could be wrong there.

I think its safe to say Milton is capable of putting up .370 .480 25-30 Homeruns IF and its a big IF he stays healthy. If we get rid of him it won't be because he's physically fragile it will be because of his emotional problems.

My problem with that is if Bradley hits .370 OB% .480 SLG% and 30 Homeruns and tears the clubhouse down after everygame and we have to chain him up like mongo are we better off not having that .370 .480 30 homeruns and outstanding defense?

Are we going to win more games with Jason repko in CF because he never causes turmoil?

2005-10-18 14:20:41
131.   Vishal
i grew up loving the encyclopedia brown books.

and i like the idea of a highly incentivized contract for bradley to keep him around.

2005-10-18 14:21:22
132.   trainwreck
Bill King was a great voice and a symbol for the A's franchise. I am going to miss listening to him when I am back home in the Bay Area. Thanks for all the great work Bill, RIP.
2005-10-18 14:22:51
133.   Bob Timmermann
I was surprised that Bill King was so Chick Hearn-like about his age. We'll know soon enough how old he really was. Death has a way of revealing that since you can't do anything about your death certificate once one is issued in your name.
2005-10-18 14:24:06
134.   Vishal
i am also wondering why ron washington's name has stopped being mentioned for anything anymore. i'm surprised he hasn't been hired anywhere already.
2005-10-18 14:24:28
135.   Curtis Lowe
129- I meant rehab thanks for clarifying that. Really 9 months off from anything can put you in a funk pretty easy, lets hope he pushes himself this offseason to be ready opening day.
2005-10-18 14:25:13
136.   Vishal
[105], [133]: bill king was definitely a strong #2 to vin scully of all the baseball announcers i've ever heard.
2005-10-18 14:25:50
137.   KLV
We should not go into next season with Drew and Bradley as 2/3 of our starting OF. One of those guys I can handle, provided we have good 4th and 5th outfielders to provide depth. But if both Drew and Bradely are starters next year, we can expect to see a repeat of 2005 where "outfielders" like Mike Edwards and Jose Valentin start a number of games.
2005-10-18 14:26:33
138.   Improbable88
127 - Based on the fact that the first two months he hit 10 HRs with 26 RBIs. He wasn't doing anything superhuman nor was he extraordinarily hot. It just seemed like he was coming into the player he should be, doing what he was capable of. You figure 25 and 80 are very doable from a good hitter with good sock who performs well in the clutch...IF, he is healthy.
2005-10-18 14:26:42
139.   LetsGoDodgers
126 - I predict Drew will gut it out for 140+ games next season and put up great numbers, then he will opt out and file for free agency.
2005-10-18 14:28:50
140.   Curtis Lowe
Did Kent laugh or cry when Lidge choked last night?
2005-10-18 14:34:50
141.   Bob Timmermann
Kent probably wasn't watching and was in his garage fixing a motorcycle.
2005-10-18 14:35:01
142.   KLV
I'd also add that Bradley tore up his knee and is likely to come back a step or two slower, which means he probably won't be the defensive outfielder he used to be. Between the past injuries' likely effects on his skills, the threat of future injuries that could make him a 100-game-a-year-player, and the uncertainty caused by his anger problems and mental instability, the guy seems like a bad bet going forward.

I guess with the dearth of free agent OFs and the lack of OF prospects ready to step in next year we might be inclined to sign Bradley to a 1-year deal and hope against hope that he comes through, but that would only be because it is the "least bad" option.

Personally, I would love to see us sign Brian Giles and move J.D. Drew to CF. But that's easier said then done, as many teams will be chasing Giles. Still, he looks like the best fit for us among the FAs, and we have quite a bit of money coming of the books.

2005-10-18 14:46:51
143.   dzzrtRatt
I agree, Bill King was up there just below Scully as a baseball announcer, and also ranks high as a football announcer. He was the voice of the Raiders when they were down here as well as in Oakland. But compared to Scully--he was odd. He was transplanted here from another time and space.
2005-10-18 15:27:05
144.   Monterey Chris
Congratulations to our own Baseball Toaster for receiving a recommendation in Newsweek (10/24/05). They recommend it for people wanting World Series game analysis and gossip.
2005-10-18 15:29:04
145.   Ken Arneson
Bill King was a very, very good baseball announcer, a truly great football announcer. But basketball--nobody was better, and nobody ever will be.

I'll write more over on Catfish Stew, as soon as I collect myself...

2005-10-18 15:39:12
146.   Uncle Miltie
I'm also an A's fan, so I have a bit of Bill King. He was an excellent announcer, but unfortunately I haven't heard him very much since I've lived in the Bay Area for less than a year. He will definitely be missed.

What's wrong with the Dodgers signing Bradley (expecting him to play 120 games) and having Werth and Ledee as the backups. A durable LF is a must this offseason (*cough*Matsui*cough*)

2005-10-18 15:41:07
147.   molokai
Sorry to hear about Bill King. I still haven't gotten over not being able to listen to Chick Hearn anymore. When Vinny goes I'll feel very alone and old. They were the sounds of my youth.
2005-10-18 15:41:55
148.   dzzrtRatt
133 Based on this graf from his obituary..."King was stationed on the island of Guam at the end of World War II when he began his broadcasting career with the Armed Forces Radio Network. He launched his career in the late 1940's in Pekin, Ill., broadcasting minor league baseball, along with high school football and basketball games..." you have to figure he was at least 80, and probably more like 85. What a great voice. I always liked it when I was in the Bay Area and could pick up one of his broadcasts in a rental car.

The obit on the A's MLB site is a great piece.

2005-10-18 15:59:07
149.   sanchez101
142. Im not sure that its "probable" that bradley will slower after surgury; i dont think thats how it works, necessarly. JD Drew has had multiple knee surguries early in his career and still played a very good outfield last year, and stole 12 bases and hit 8 triples in 2004.

One of the mistakes you can pin to Depodesta is going into 2005 with such a brittle outfield; werth, bradley and drew have all had trouble staying healthy throughout their careers and ledee is not enough insurance off the bench as he was injured as well. The Dodgers cant do this again, but a great way to protect yourself by relegating werth to the bench with ledee. As a platoon werth and ledee can hit enough to be a solid starting outfielder. Just need one more outfielder is needed if they retain bradley, and two if he isnt.

This is why i'm in favor of trading bradley, he's an injury risk in an outfield that has enough of that, and the reason he's a good player is that he plays a good centerfield, Milton Bradley as a corner outfielder isnt anything special, and the Dodgers have in Drew, Werth, and even Repko, guys who can play centerfield. If there were some way we could trade Bradley for a player with less defensive ability (limiting him to a corner) but with more offensive ability (and durability), it would be a much better fit for the team.

2005-10-18 17:24:53
150.   bigcpa
149 Don't forget about Cruz Jr. He's a decent bet to match Bradley's numbers in 2006. I'd take Bradley from 2007-2011 but Cruz could soften the blow in 2006 at least.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-18 17:31:11
151.   fanerman
What is Bradley up to this offseason anyway? Does anybody know? Is he getting help?
2005-10-18 17:39:10
152.   Jon Weisman
Update to my post above:

1) New manager won't be announced until after the World Series.

2) Pendleton withdrew - he wants to stay on the East Coast.

2005-10-18 17:40:09
153.   Bob Timmermann
If Bradley were smart, he would be saying as little as possible during the offseason and just trying to rehab his knee.

I think other teams are going to be more worried about that than his psychological makeup.

2005-10-18 17:41:14
154.   King of the Hobos
OF depth isn't nearly as big an issue this year. Even with injuries en masse, we now have Delwyn Young in left, and his bat is major league ready. Also, Justin Ruggiano is nearly ready (he led everyone, including 51s and Dodgers, in average this year, and showed good speed as well as power in 2 pitchers parks). The Dodgers didn't have major league ready OF prospects last year, just retreads and AAAA players

That said, an OF of Drew, Bradley, Werth, Ledee, and Repko/Young/Ruggiano is not acceptable if we plan on winning. There's just not enough health or established players

2005-10-18 17:42:08
155.   fanerman
I wonder what trading him will net us though. His value does not seem particularly high right now.
2005-10-18 17:44:23
156.   King of the Hobos
152 And I was hoping for an announcement by Friday...
2005-10-18 17:46:44
157.   Bob Timmermann
I would think that Selig wouldn't want any major announcement during the World Series. It detracts from the run up to the World Series when the focus should be on the White Sox and the NL team.
2005-10-18 19:25:34
158.   MikeB
Is there even a very slight chance that we could trade for A-Rod? What would the Dodgers have to give up?
Could we land both A-Rod and Nomar? If you landed one, would the other be more likely to come here?
Can the Dodgers put up with a brittle OF with AAAA players as back ups if we had as starting IF of Nomar, A-Rod, Kent & Choi?
It's the off-season, time to dream, be kind.
2005-10-18 19:46:38
159.   dzzrtRatt
How do you avoid "brittle" players? Look at the playoffs, where the presumably best teams are. "Injury prone" players who are key to their teams include Lance Berkman, Andy Pettite, Larry Walker, Scott Rolen, Reggie Sanders, Bartolo Colon, Darin Erstad, Paul Byrd, Garrett Anderson, maybe Vlad Guerrero...can't think of any White Sox, maybe they were just very lucky this year.

What I'm saying is, who wouldn't want at least some of the above players? And yet, there's this idea afoot that players who've been injured should be shunned. I don't think that's realistic, and the fear of avoiding players with DL time in their futures might restrict your choices too much.

2005-10-18 19:48:29
160.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps every team should have a roster full of Cal Ripkens with Greg Madduxes on the pitching staff. Nobody will ever miss a game.
2005-10-18 19:59:05
161.   jasonungar05
what I want for Dodger X-mas

-bring back bradley
-bring back cruz jr
-trade for big bat (lf) (dunn, while we are dreaming)
-play choi
-bring in Nomar-assuming it's all incetive contract (he can play ss/3b)

-figure out the leadoff spot before the playoffs!

-trade for or sign two quality sp or one ACE and an avg sp
-sign or trade for a good veteran inning eater for the pen

-figure out if Gagne is really back before the deadline

2005-10-18 20:03:46
162.   MikeB
159. Buy low, sell high. Injury prone, problem child, weak arm, not a team player, not agressive enough, too agressive, too smart, too dumb -- sometimes players get stuck with "labels." Like Berkman. He's not injury prone. The trick is to find talent for the right amount of $ and hope Lady Luck is on your side.
160. Not every team can have that kind of roster. Just the Yankees.
2005-10-18 20:07:16
163.   MikeB
161. Sounds like a nice Christmas.
2005-10-18 20:28:48
164.   FirstMohican
Is asking to see Dunn, Giles, and Zito under the tree too much?
2005-10-18 20:28:54
165.   Romyrick
Since we are talking about Christmas...

Leadoff- Milton Bradley CF
2nd - Hee Soep Choi 1b
3rd- Jeff Kent 2b
4th- Adam Dunn Lf
5th- JD Drew RF
6th Nomar SS
7th - Willy Aybar/ Antonio Perez 3b
8th - Navarro

Andy Pratt-C
Jayson Werth
Delwyn Young
Antonio Perez/Willy Aybar
Rickey Ledee
Cesar Izturis/ Robles


1. Penny
2. Lowe
3. Op
4. Kevin Brown
5. Ted Lilly/Edwin Jackson/ NRI


Maybe unrealistic but its just a the structure i have in mind. LF doesnt exactly mean Dunn, it just means getting a nice power guy in LF so i'd be just as happy making a trade for a Johnny Gomes type.

2005-10-18 20:48:11
166.   FirstMohican
Brownie and Driefort... throw coal in my face instead.
2005-10-18 20:56:32
167.   underdog
165. Bradley leading off is not a bad idea (or Aybar or Perez). Pratt though? It's gonna be Bako backing up until Russell Martin's ready. And you're kidding about Kevin Brown right? Yikes.

Too bad about Pendleton. Oh well, at least he didn't waste their time. I still would like to see them at least interview ron Washington before making any decisions... but we'll see.

2005-10-18 20:59:05
168.   Romyrick
I need Kevin Brown on this team!

He should come very very cheap which means no one will care when he gets injured, same with Dreifort.

Not pitching to the Yankee's infield would do him wonders. His pheriphals are still pretty dam good.

2005-10-18 21:01:02
169.   blue22
Ok, I'll bite...

Perez* - 3B
Drew - CF
Kent - 2B
Dunn - LF
Cruz - RF
Choi - 1B
Navarro - C
Robles* - SS

Bench - Aybar, Werth, Ledee, Craig Wilson (or Bako if you need a "real" catcher), +1 bench spot (Delwyn Young?)


Gagne, Sanchez, Braz, Schmoll, Osoria, Dessens, Kuo, Wunsch

*Perez also plays a healthy amount of short, esp. against lefties, with Aybar at 3rd.

If you're not a Lilly fan, I'd consider moving Duaner to the rotation, and keeping Broxton up in the pen.

2005-10-18 21:05:10
170.   dzzrtRatt
There are some people out there thinking a little bigger:

2005-10-18 22:28:31
171.   Suffering Bruin
chronicles of the lads stole a format that Bill James used in his 1992 Baseball Book, where he did this "Team in a Box" thing. I'm not only stealing the idea the lads stole but also his (their?) introductory sentence. Hey, I'm a first year teacher in Watts, it's been awhile since I've posted, I miss the site and with regard to research, I've always believed that stealing is a good anecdote to laziness. That, or I just ask Bob T. to do the work.

Without further adieu…

2005 Won-Lost Record: 71-91, the Blue Crew's worst record in many a moon.

Best Player: Jeff Kent

Weak Spots: The player's bodies were pretty weak which is a semi-witty way of saying that injuries were problemo numero uno this season. The starting pitching was inconsistent though you couldn't tell from the press coverage. Also, the manager may have quit on the team as early as the summer.

Best Starting Pitcher: Brad Penny

Best Relief Pitcher: Duaner Sanchez

Staff Weakness: The vacation it took this summer did not help. As for specific players, the fact they don't have a number one starter and that Perez, Weaver and Lowe are all antonyms to the word consistency.

Best Bench Player: Antonio Perez and Hee-Seop Choi.

Most Pleaseant Surprise: Dioner Navarro with a nod to Olmedo Saenz.

Biggest Disappointment: Jim Tracy. Among players, there are many candidates but I'll take Cesar Izturis and Yhency Brazoban.

Park Characteristics: A pitchers park that tends to give up the long ball when Dodgers are on the mound.

Ownership – C (anything higher or lower would cause a storm of controversy)
Upper Management – C (I love the guy but 2005 is at least some of his responsibility)
Field Management -- D
Front-Line Talent – B (when healthy)
Second-Line Talent -- B
Minor League System: A+

Background: After the dreadful Fox years, the Dodgers were frustratingly second-tier or just out of the running in the 21st century. Then came a joyous 2004 where the team won the NL West in spite of a trade that most in the Los Angeles press corps equated to the clubbing of a seal. During the off-season, GM Paul DePodesta scattered the team to the four winds, spent oodles of money on free agents Jeff Kent, Derek Lowe and J.D. Drew and was rewarded by hearing his boss called a cheapskate and his reputation etched in granite as a computer nerd who never swung a bat. It was pretty weird…

Outlook: Most thought the Dodgers or the Padres would win a weak division. Most did not know just how weak the division would actually be.

Getaway: a.k.a. the high point of the season. The Dodgers went 12-2 to start, keyed by an exhilarating comeback win over the Giants on opening day.

High Point of the Season: See above.

Low Point of the Season: See rest of the season. Jon Weisman wrote that it's a bad time to be had by all when the year-ending injury to Eric Gagne doesn't even make the medal round of disappointments. Take your pick: the injuries, especially to Drew, the public pissing contest between Kent and Bradley, the starting pitching… but for my money, the low point was Jim Tracy's increasingly bizarre use of the lineup. Even in the midst of a race—and the Dodgers were there for a while—Tracy continued to use ballplayers like Jason Phillips (at first base) and Mike Edwards when better options were available, often two players deep on the bench.

Stretch Drive: The Dodgers lost 19 of their last 29.

Major Injuries: You could write a book.

Offense: Not as good as it could've been, in my humble opinion. I think Jim Tracy fell in love with the 2004 version of the Dodgers. After Paul LoDuca was traded, Tracy wore his number. When Beltre was let go, I think Tracy took it as a huge blow. So Jim Tracy tried to make the 2005 Dodgers just like the 2004 version by playing chemistry guys who played with savvy, guys who looked like ballplayers. That is the only sensible explanation I have for playing Jason Phillips at first base when there was a wealth of other options available.

Defense: The press thought Kent would be iron glove and he was anything but. Infield was only okay and the outfield was the same. The opposition ran wild on the basepaths.

Pitching: 12th in the league with a 4.66 ERA. A terrible performance for the park they play in.

Number of players having good seasons by their own standards: Of the players left standing, Jeff Kent had a terrific season and was far and away the team MVP.
Over-Achiever: Joze Cruz, Jr.

Under-Achiever: Izturis

Infield: If it's Phillips, Kent, Izzy and Edwards, it's pretty God-awful. Replace Phillips and Edwards with Choi and Perez and you get some idea why Jim Tracy had to go.

Outfield: A healthy Drew, Bradley and Ledee/Werth outfield would've been pretty good. All four players were hurt badly this season. And they had company in their pain.

Catching: I wonder if Jason Phillips could throw out Jason Phillips? I think he could but you didn't have to be much faster than Phillips to steal second on the Dodgers. Navarro looked good with the wood but struggled throwing as well. In fairness, the Dodger pitchers were not great at holding runners.

Starting Pitching: Maddeningly mediocre.

Relief Pitching: Better than the starters which ain't saying much.

Hall of Fame Watch: Kent is in if he never gets another hit. Eric Gagne needs to get healthy and continue to pitch like Eric Gagne for a few more seasons. The rest won't get to Cooperstown without a plane ticket.

Players with a chance for 3000 hits or 500 home runs: Quite literally the last thing on the minds of Dodger fans right now.

Best Interview: It depends on what you mean by "best." If you like controversy or introspection, Milton Bradley's your man. If you mean fun-loving quotes, we're a little short on candidates.

Best Fundamental Player: Probably Jeff Kent.

Worst Fundamental Player: Some would say Antonio Perez but for my money, it's Mike Edwards.

Best Defensive Player: Izturis

Worst Defensive Player: Perez or Phillips

Best Knowledge of the Strike Zone: J.D. Drew

Least Command of the Strike Zone: Izturis or Jason Repko

Fastest Runner: Heck if I know. Jeff Weaver?

Slowest Runner: It's Phillips and I'm sick of mentioning his name!

Best Baserunner: Drew ran the bases quite well before he got hurt.

Most Likely to Still Be Here in 2015: Dioner Navarro

Best Fastball: Brad Penny

Best Breaking Pitch: Derek Lowe's sinker when the leaves changed.

Best Control: This season it was Weaver.

Most Overrated Player: Until his Fall apotheosis, it was Lowe. Now, it's Izzy.

Most Underrated Player: Hee-Seop Choi

Manager's Pet Strategy: Sweet Christmas where do we begin?

Most Fun to Watch: Without Gagne, this was not a very "fun" team, though I enjoyed watching Kent play the game.

Least Fun to Watch: Scott Erickson

Managerial Type: Kent

What Needs to be Done for 2006: You could write two books…

1. Hire a manager who gives a damn about the team, sees the value in the players he has and clearly defines a role for said players.
2. Get healthy.
3. Don't panic. The Dodgers have some extra funds now that Dreifort and Green are off the books but in a thin free-agent market, they need to avoid the pressure from an unforgiving press and stick with the theme of bringing in players who have value.

Outlook for 2006: …will be much debated in the coming months. I think it looks good if for no other reason than they have to be healthier than they were.

Due for a better season: Almost everyone for varying reasons (they'll be healthier, they'll have more playing time, etc.)

Likely to have a worse season: I would be very surprised if after being another year older, Kent matches his 2005 performance.

2005-10-18 22:33:22
172.   Bob Timmermann
That was great.

I would say the "Fastest Runner" title would go to Jason Repko.

2005-10-18 22:41:41
173.   Icaros
Nice, Bruin. You've been missed.
2005-10-18 22:56:44
174.   King of the Hobos
After the first 2 games were cancelled, Phoenix did play (surprising me). Phoenix as a whole had 5 hits and no runs somehow, so not much offense

Abreu 1-4, K
Laroche 0-4
Kemp 1-4

Dannemiller 1 IP, 1 H, 1 R, BB, 2 Ks

2005-10-18 23:36:15
175.   Linkmeister
170 I'm obviously not reading the correct science fiction. Clifford Simak had some ideas about Earth's fate in "Cemetery World" which didn't require absolute destruction to turn it into a place I wouldn't like much, though.
2005-10-19 00:23:20
176.   LAT
Bruin,really nice job (Hard to call you Suffering Bruin right now with your team 6-0). My far and away favorite was:

I wonder if Jason Phillips could throw out Jason Phillips?

One of the best DT lines of the year! The Dodger version of the chicken or the egg question.

Agree with most of your assessment, except for Choi as the Most Under-rated Player. He was mis-used but did little to help his cause or to force Tracy's hand.

A very interesting point which I had not considered until you raised it was just how boring this team was from an interview perspective. There was no one with any personality. No one with a quick line. No front man (although I think they tried to make Phillips that guy for a while until he peed all over himself.)

Finally, under the likely to have a worse season catagory, I would include Jose Cruz Jr. While we got good use out of him, he killed two other teams who DFAed him this season. He is not what he was and I would rather keep Ladee.

BTW, what school are you at? I know someone who is a first year teacher in Watts. I think she is teaching 6th. I can't believe the way they throw you guys in without any meaningful support. It really is sink or swim and for a pittance of money. (and then they don't give you any $ for supplies) I really admire you guys.

2005-10-19 06:56:26
177.   SMY
I know that generally the incoming manager gets to pick his own coaching staff. But I wonder if in this case, DePo will have a lot of input. More specifically, maybe the reason Terry Collins is the alleged frontrunner is because since he and DePo already have a good relationship, they can create the coaching staff together. Like, maybe we'll see something like Collins as the manager, Lovullo as the bench coach, and Orel as the pitching coach, or some other combination of the managerial candidates.

Oh, and Dilbeck's column about not being able to figure out what the managerial candidates have in common is pretty dumb.

2005-10-19 07:19:01
178.   King of the Hobos
Both the Daily News and the Fort Worth Star Telegram are reporting that the Dodgers have received permission to talk to Orel. The Times says Gibson is excited about talking DePo assuming he gets the chance
2005-10-19 07:52:22
179.   Bob Timmermann
Again, I am not named Grand Marshal of the Rose Parade.
2005-10-19 07:59:55
180.   Felton
According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, there are rumors about the Phillies send Jim Thome and David Bell to Seattle for disgruntled third-base slugger Adrian Beltre.
2005-10-19 08:17:11
181.   Steve
Not saying it will happen, not saying it won't happen, but Keisser just set himself up to get pantsed just like Bruce Jenkins did last week. If in fact, Keisser is sober enough to wear pants in the first place.
2005-10-19 08:18:18
182.   SMY
I'd say Seattle has more to be disgruntled about than Beltre does.
2005-10-19 08:28:02
183.   Improbable88
Saw a blurb in the St. Paul newspaper that the Dodgers were supposedly "interested" in Jacque Jones.

This is exactly why I'm scared of losing Milton Bradley.

Jones seems to be on the way down and has never put up a decent OBP, the seeming cornerstone of the new Dodgers offense. He's a good fielder, yes, but not any better than Bradley.

He does play 140+ games every year, which would be refreshing, but his upside for the price, somewhere in the 5-6 million range, doesn't seem to be worth it. Bradley HAS to be a better option than Jacque Jones...and Jones is one of the better outfileders on the market. Hence, the importace of keeping the inexpensive Bradley at the risk of an incentive based contract.

2005-10-19 08:29:45
184.   Improbable88
or rather, the only risk being an incentive based contract.
2005-10-19 08:32:24
185.   blue22
182 - If they thought Beltre was bad, wait til they get a load of the statue formerly known as Jim Thome.

At least Beltre was the best defensive 3B in the league, is relatively healthy, and is still only 26.

4 yrs/47M left for Beltre.
3 yrs/~$45M left for Thome.

2005-10-19 08:43:15
186.   SMY
185 -- Oh, I don't doubt it. I just think it's funny that Beltre's characterized as "disgruntled". He got $17 million to have one of his patented average seasons in a place where there wouldn't be a lot of whining about it, what's he got to be upset about? Like he didn't realize the Mariners would be bad before he signed?

Writers are funny.

2005-10-19 08:44:58
187.   Improbable88
If by funny you mean terrible, and by writers you mean most sports writers, then I agree.
2005-10-19 08:45:00
188.   Bob Timmermann
At least Keisser finally confessed that his big issue is with McCourt(s). Good to know that he is a gentleman with the utmost respect for women.
2005-10-19 08:52:46
189.   SMY
Also, I don't see why the columnists keep harping on the "inexperienced = cheap" theme. Where are all these available managers that command top dollar? The only ones I can think of already have jobs.

Yeah, I know it's just more McCourt/DePo bashing. But it's lame.

2005-10-19 08:57:15
190.   blue22
It's easy to criticize the job search - either they hire an "unsuccessful" manager like Collins, or an "inexperienced" one like Lovullo.

Successful, experienced managers also have another adjective to describe them - currently employed.

2005-10-19 09:37:03
191.   LAT
If Beltre is indeed disgruntled, is any of his dissatisfaction directed towards his agent for getting him to leave LA. I know that, perhaps incorrectly, assumes it was Boras who convinced Beltre to leave but I wonder if Beltre asks how he went from MVP runner-up in a place where the fans were always quick with an excuse for him to an awful season where, at best, he is regarded with distain. If he has another season like 2005, Philly will eat him for lunch.
2005-10-19 09:43:15
192.   blue22
191 - His contract, though still overpriced, is much more manageable now that the front-loaded year is out of the way. He'll give you GG defense, and his numbers should go up playing in the friendly confines of Philly's home park. I'd be all over this trade if it actually is on the table.

For Seattle, well, this is an awful trade to put it mildly.

2005-10-19 10:03:56
193.   Improbable88
If Adrian Beltre ended up in Philadelphia it would illumintate another great Dodger front office foul-up from the 2002 offseason when Scott Rolen was on the table for Adrian Beltre straight up.

Philly would still get what they had coveted and we, still would have nothing to show for Beltre.

2005-10-19 10:49:50
194.   das411
There is still that small detail however of the Phillies not having a general manager yet...
2005-10-19 11:33:56
195.   LAT
193. We got an MVP 3B for 2004 which allowed us to win the West

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