Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Piling On
2005-10-19 09:02
by Jon Weisman

If you find anything good to say about Paul DePodesta, you've supposedly drunk the Kool-Aid.

But the people who offer criticisms like these from Steve Dilbeck of the Daily News - those are the rational thinkers.

How about that Dodgers' managerial search?

All dazzled? All giddy at the prospects?

Let's see, exactly what are they looking for? A veteran, proven manager like Bobby Valentine? An up-and-comer, but unknown like Giants bench Ron Wotus? Retreads Terry Collins and Alan Trammell? Successful minor-league managers like Jerry Royster or Torey Lovullo?

General manager Paul DePodesta's search appears all over the map.

That does not speak to someone who knows what they want, the type of manager they desire at the helm.


Rather extraordinary that Dilbeck criticizes DePodesta for having managerial candidates with diverse backgrounds. I suppose it would have gone over much better if DePodesta interviewed eight people that were exactly the same.

Believe it or not, people with different backgrounds and experiences can still agree on strategies, and people with the same background and experience can disagree.

Comments (182)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-10-19 09:26:11
1.   Xeifrank
I'd happily drink the Kool-Aid, though I prefer Snapple. vr, Xei
2005-10-19 09:26:15
2.   Sam DC
Good heavens, those articles are just awful. And I don't mean to be hyper about this, but the stuff about Jamie McCourt's dress size is just weird and to my mind not appropriate or funny. Not too comfortable with successful women, Mr. Keisser?
2005-10-19 09:29:21
3.   LetsGoDodgers
Heaven forbid the organization rushes to name a new manager at the one time of the year when your manager has little-to-no value.

Take your time, DePo. The "new guy" will be "your guy", so there shouldn't be any reason to have communication issues.

2005-10-19 09:30:07
4.   SMY
I'd love to see the columnists offer their blueprint for how the Dodgers should be run. They're great at second-guessing, but I'd venture to guess their attempts at management and roster construction would be pretty bad. The east coast press does this all the time, I wonder why the LA guys don't.
2005-10-19 09:31:54
5.   FirstMohican
Moreno is clearly cutting checks to the LA sports columnists.

I predict we'll all read this exact line within the next two months: "Stoneman, a real man's man, likes hunting and eating his wild steaks while DePodesta enjoys writing scripts to instantaneously solve his Sudoku puzzles."

2005-10-19 09:31:59
6.   SMY
I'd love to see the columnists offer their blueprint for how the Dodgers should be run. They're great at second-guessing, but I'd venture to guess their attempts at management and roster construction would be pretty bad. The east coast press does this all the time, I wonder why the LA guys don't.
2005-10-19 09:32:13
7.   SMY
Oops, sorry for the double post.
2005-10-19 09:35:14
8.   TheDictator
I have probably missed the discussion. So, could someone point me to the discussion of Krik Gibson as a possibility for manager.

Is he one that would likely take a moneyball approach?

The Dictator

2005-10-19 09:37:28
9.   FirstMohican
8 - You're Kirk Gibson aren't you.
2005-10-19 09:38:50
10.   gvette
The "best" is when Dilbeck refers to Pendleton deciding not to interview for family reasons.

Hinting darkly (without any facts) that that Pendleton must have another motive, Dilbeck writes:

"What does it say about the organization that someone would actually turn down a chance to manage the Dodgers?"

Didn't media favorite Tracy get the job because Felipe Alou did "actually turn down a chance to manage the Dodgers" five years ago? Selective amnesia must be a vital job prerequisite for being a sports columnist.

The other howler is when Dilbeck talks about how it would be great for the Dodgers to get a manager "Who might be able to sell a ticket or two." Exactly how many tickets did Tracy, or any other Dodger manager in the past sell? How many tickets do Scioscia or LaRussa sell?

2005-10-19 09:39:18
11.   TheDictator
No I am from Ohio. I just can't spell today.

The Dictator

2005-10-19 09:39:39
12.   Adam M
6 - The columnists did do this, for at least one example I can think of: in the Fox era, Plaschke wrote at least one piece about how the team had lost the Dodger Way of pitching and defense, which was the only way to win in Dodger Stadium. By 2003, the Dodgers had both the best pitching and best defense in the game, and they missed the playoffs by a fairly wide margin, a paradox Plaschke failed to note. Pretty sure they were playing in Dodger Stadium that year.
2005-10-19 09:42:04
13.   Eric Enders
"There are two requirements for Jim Tracy's replacement drink DePodesta's Kool-Aid and work cheap"

I like that whole dispensing with punctuation thing the P-T has going

Maybe I should try it myself Then again maybe not My posts make relatively little sense as it is

2005-10-19 09:46:30
14.   Bob Timmermann
I can't wait for the Reds to come to town so I can see Jerry Narron. Woo hoo! That will be thrilling.

I'm also calling the Dodgers ticket office to see I can buy a special "Melvin Pack" for all the DBacks games.

2005-10-19 09:47:18
15.   Eric Enders
Kirk Gibson, of course, as a player was a Moneyball GM's wet dream.

The bad news is, I don't think Kirk Gibson knows this -- then or now. His HRs-walks-high-percentage-steals game was just the way he naturally played, not, alas, the product of some well-thought-out philosophy.

Although it seems like it should make intuitive sense, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that a manager will manage in the same style that he played. In fact, I think it's more often exactly the opposite -- Weaver liked lots of HRs, Frank Robby likes the bunt, Beane likes the walk, etc.

It seems to me that GMs and managers are usually more admiring of the skills they didn't have as players.

2005-10-19 09:48:56
16.   SMY
I like the part about Gibson. Do we have any idea what Gibson's "way" would be? But he has "fire," so clearly his way must be different from DePo's way.

12 -- Did he actually say stuff like "The Dodgers need player X, Y, and Z"? That's what I want to see from the columnists. I'm really curious to see what Bill Plaschke and Steve Dilbeck's Dodgers would look like. And in any case, they may have done it in the past, but certainly aren't doing it now.

2005-10-19 09:53:56
17.   blue22
16 - I would think they would look strikingly similar to the Dodgers circa July 2004.


That's a team! Of course, get that lazy malcontent Bradley out of there for Finley, and now you're chock full of scrappy goodness.

2005-10-19 10:01:24
18.   SMY
If they had kept Jason Romano, the scrap-osity would have been off the charts. After all, he tackled a guy once.
2005-10-19 10:08:02
19.   jasonungar05
I didn't realize Kirk Gibson makes JD Drew look like Cal Ripken. In 17 season he never played 162 games once. He also only played over a 100 games 8 times.

God bless him though.

2005-10-19 10:09:03
20.   FirstMohican
16 - I think it would actually look exactly like the 05 Angels.
2005-10-19 10:09:03
21.   FirstMohican
16 - I think it would actually look exactly like the 05 Angels.
2005-10-19 10:16:50
22.   Bob Timmermann
Kirk Gibson played with an actual football player's mentality unlike Darin Erstad, who was a punter. Gibson was a receiver and had guys tackle him and uncomfortable things like that.

I'm surprised that Gibson would be interested at all in returning to L.A. I was always under the impression that he didn't like Southern California and preferred living in Michigan, where he grew up. I thought he owned a farm there too. Maybe the past few seasons with the Tigers soured him on life there.

2005-10-19 10:20:56
23.   dodgerYoda
Also hilarious:

"On Tuesday, Atlanta Braves hitting coach Terry Pendleton, scheduled for an interview with DePodesta today, withdrew as a candidate. The Dodgers said it was because Pendleton wanted to remain in Atlanta with his family, although he oddly did interview with Tampa Bay on Monday."

Last I checked, Florida was a little bit closer to Georgia than California was.

2005-10-19 10:23:56
24.   Bob Timmermann
I would think Pendleton thought to himself that his chances of getting the Dodgers job were pretty slight anyway and it was likely more trouble than it was worth. And he has a much better chance of getting the Tampa Bay job. But Pendleton is smart enough not to say that because it wouldn't sound good.
2005-10-19 10:26:34
25.   Marty
5 I love Sudoku :)
2005-10-19 10:28:07
26.   rageon
I pretty much ignore all anti-Dodgers articles at this point. DePo is going to be criticized no matter what he does. Dilbeck saying that DePo should already know what type of manager he wants is just another case of the old-school "anti-moneyball" approach to the game. That is, you shouldn't investigate anything or try things out. "Real baseball men" just know that kind of stuff and don't want to hear some computer-geek's "proof" tell them otherwise. A real baseball man would know which manager he wants based on what they did at their last job and how successfull their playing career is.

Personally, I'm glad the DePo is looking at a wide range of candidates. I don't see anything wrong with exploring what "type" of candidate will work best with him.

2005-10-19 10:29:45
27.   bigcpa
This year JA Adande called the Angels a "better constructed team" than the Dodgers. I took this to mean speed at the top, proven RBI guys in the middle and none of those weird .900 OPS platoons like Choi/Saenz.

Plaschke endorsed the Piazza trade and the Bradley trade and openly whined when the Giants got Schmidt and the Padres got Giles. It wasn't until this year when it appeared he preferred Cora to Kent and Finley to Drew.

2005-10-19 10:30:55
28.   Monterey Chris
I agree with Bob. If you want to be home to raise your kids, living in Georgia and working in either California or Florida really does not help you reach your goal.

Regarding managers selling tickets, my guess is that Lasorda sold tickets when he was manager.

2005-10-19 10:35:51
29.   SMY
26 -- If you ignore all anti-Dodger articles, what else is there to read? :)

I know what you mean though -- I refuse to read Plaschke and Simers at all, and I've added Keisser to the blacklist too.

2005-10-19 10:36:11
30.   Bob Timmermann
In Japan, the manager is used to sell tickets and promote the team, but they regard managers there as all-wise tacticians. I'm sure that Bobby Valentine doesn't have to pay for any meals right now.

Don't shortchange Valentine's accomplishments in Japan. He got the Japanese equivalent of the Royals to the Japan Series after just two years on the job and won a five-game playoff series where his team was the visitor for all five games.

2005-10-19 10:37:17
31.   rageon
28 Or: If you want to find ways to endlessly complain about Google Boy, the notion that Pendelton wants to stay close to his family does not help you reach your goal.
2005-10-19 10:39:58
32.   Bob Timmermann
The Cardinals have not lost four straight games this year. The last team to do that and win the World Series:

The 1988 Dodgers.

2005-10-19 10:40:52
33.   Monterey Chris
I agree it was probably a bad article. But your argument is better if you focus on the clear weak points of the article. Pendelton's excuse does not make much sense, unless read in the light that Bob did.
2005-10-19 10:42:34
34.   Bob Timmermann
Think of the number of government officials in Washington who resign "for family reasons". It happens all the time. It's mainly to give cover to people who either: 1) would be fired or 2) are ticked off and quit but don't want to badmouth the boss.
2005-10-19 10:43:53
35.   Marty
I can't believe Lasorda sold tickets. I'd hazard a guess that Lasorda cost them money from all the free passes he needed for his celebrity friends.
2005-10-19 10:46:34
36.   Monterey Chris
Lasorda created an atmosphere where many people were excited and proud to be Dodger fans. The fringe fans became excited fans during the Lasorda years.
2005-10-19 10:48:04
37.   Sam DC
Humbug's anagram of the day yesterday (still up) was quite good:

Albert Pujols -- Be pulsar jolt.
2005-10-19 10:53:18
38.   gvette
Don't recall too many people being excited during Lasorda's down years, '84,'86,'87, and especially '92. Winning and exciting players sell tickets.

How many of today's managers are a PR dream like Lasorda was? Regardless of his success in Japan, even with a serious roster upgrade, Valentine would be a trainwreck if he managed the Dodgers under DePo.

2005-10-19 10:56:27
39.   Eric L
I think a chubby pitcher from Mexico helped to sell more tickets during part of Lasorda's tenure than anything Lasorda did.

Or to take it back even further, a group of fairly succesful infielders helped sell more tickets at the beginning of the Lasorda years than Lasorda did.

2005-10-19 10:57:02
40.   Eric Enders
"Don't recall too many people being excited during Lasorda's down years, '84,'86,'87, and especially '92. Winning and exciting players sell tickets."

Thank goodness I hit refresh, because I was about to post that exact same thing...

2005-10-19 10:57:45
41.   Eric L
38 At least in '84 and '86, the Dodgers led the NL in attendance.

Oddly enough, the team didn't even sell 3 million tickets in '88.

2005-10-19 10:58:23
42.   Bob Timmermann
Lasorda was helpful in marketing the team at community events and stuff outside the park. But he would have needed to perform the community outreach of Mother Teresa and Jane Addams combined to get people to watch the 1992 team.
2005-10-19 10:58:30
43.   Eric Enders
"I think a chubby pitcher from Mexico helped to sell more tickets during part of Lasorda's tenure than anything Lasorda did."

I'm chubby.
I'm of Mexican heritage.
I'm left-handed.
And I probably pitch about as well as Fernando does now.

Sign me up!

2005-10-19 11:01:09
44.   Eric Enders
"At least in '84 and '86, the Dodgers led the NL in attendance."

In baseball, attendance is always a reflector of how your team did the year before, not how they're doing this year. Go check out BB-Ref for the attendance patterns of different teams. Like clockwork.

Which is why the Dodgers were breaking attendance records this year, even though the team stunk. And why the attendance will almost certainly fall off in 2006, even though the Dodgers are virtually guaranteed to have a better team.

2005-10-19 11:07:53
45.   Eric L
44 Oh yeah, I totally know what you are getting at with attendance being based on the previous season's record.

I do find it odd that the '89 team drew less than the '88 team though.

2005-10-19 11:08:56
46.   Monterey Chris
You are drawing illogical conclusions from my argument. I never said that managers draw better than good players. I never said that Fernando, Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey did not draw people into the park. I simply am making the argument that Lasorda was also a positive influence in bringing people to Dodger Stadium during his tenure as manager.
2005-10-19 11:09:45
47.   Monterey Chris
45--So much for the clockwork.
2005-10-19 11:10:39
48.   dzzrtRatt
Both columns are sheer hack-work by a couple of writers who I don't know, but their writing gives off a stench of burn-out, lost hope, crushed ideals, and expediency. I pity them.

But, just for the sake of discussion, I'm going to take Dilbeck seriously for a moment. He picks up on something that is true: DePodesta is interviewing a range of candidates with a range of unique attributes among them. That's undeniably true. There is no way to group all these candidates into a single type.

Is that a bad thing? Not on the face of it. But it does indicate, does it not, that DePodesta is still exploring not just who, but what he wants in a manager.

From reading Moneyball and watching the A's, as well as watching DePo so far, it does seem that the weak spot in the sabre-philosophy of running a team is the relationship between the GM and the manager. The manager's role under a sabre-regime is thus far undefined. Is he a puppet of the GM, sort of an assistant GM for on-field operations? Or is he the team's leader, its prime motivator, its disciplinarian, and most key, the decision-maker on issues like line-up, rotation, substitutions, etc. I'm not sure if DePo is clear on all that. It was embarassing that he had to plead his case before Tracy to get Choi and Perez some playing time, but underneath that episode was a conflict of expectations. Who's running the team, day to day? Tracy thought it was him, and he wasn't off his rocker for thinking so. DePodesta was asserting his authority, but is the front office the place where that authority can be exercised?

As the sabre-philosophy evolves in practice, I think eventually the job descriptions of the GM and the field manager will change. You might see the roles combine, with the GM suiting up every game, and making the daily executive decisions, supported by a stronger and more specialized corps of coaches. Who knows? But to give Dilbeck his due, the lack of commonality among DePo's manager candidates is striking, and meaningful. Dilbeck gets it wrong because he's biased and wants to use the issue to whack DePo, and that's stupid. But he raises an interesting point nonetheless.

2005-10-19 11:14:27
49.   Monterey Chris
48--Isn't it possible that DePo had a very good idea on October 1st of who his next manager should be and that the interviews are simply serving the purpose of confirming what he already knew to be true?
2005-10-19 11:16:59
50.   Bob Timmermann
I think a GM has far too many responsibilities now to ever work on the field. And the field manager has way too much responsibility to be GM.

The jobs would have to be redefined. You do see NFL coaches working in the front office, but there jobs have much different schedules.

And NFL coaches have an unhealthy case of megalomania.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-10-19 11:17:14
51.   Eric Enders
"Is that a bad thing? Not on the face of it. But it does indicate, does it not, that DePodesta is still exploring not just who, but what he wants in a manager."

This is only true if you operate under the assumption that DePodesta already knows everything there is to know about the candidates he is interviewing.

2005-10-19 11:18:19
52.   Eric L
49 In addition to already having his ideal candidate in mind, he may be using the interview process to gather a little more information (or to pick the candidate's brains so to say).

It's never a bad idea to interview as many people as possible even if you already have someone in mind. You might find someone better, gain a little knowledge, or find someone that may not fit as manager but might have other assets that will help the organization in another area.

2005-10-19 11:19:45
53.   SMY
I don't think DePo wants to make the on-field decisions -- I just think he wants the manager to make his decisions within the overall blueprint of the team. I could be wrong on this, but that's the sense I get.

And I think it's possible that the candidates DO have something in common, but more along the lines of their philosophies, rather than something you'd see just looking at their names and levels of experience. I get the feeling that there's got to be something that made DePo consider them in the first place.

2005-10-19 11:21:12
54.   Eric Enders
"And I think it's possible that the candidates DO have something in common"

I'm going to chime in here with the obligatory "they've never been in my kitchen" comment.

2005-10-19 11:23:21
55.   SMY
Eh...I don't follow.
2005-10-19 11:25:10
56.   Bob Timmermann
It's frequent commenter Howard Fox's line.
2005-10-19 11:26:15
57.   Eric Enders
Wait, I'm confused... I thought Bob was Cliff.
2005-10-19 11:26:49
58.   Improbable88
22 - Gibson was a tight end
2005-10-19 11:27:32
59.   underdog
I'm curious - does anyone plan on (or has done this already) writing a letter to these sports sections complaining about these terrible example of sports journalism?

I did once this past season, to this same writer, Dilbeck, when he made a frighteningly ignorant comment about the Dodgers farm system. My letter was never printed but more than a week later I did get a quick email from him saying "Thanks for the feedback."

So, it's probably a waste, but maybe if enough people complain, they'll start worry about the one thing that hits them where they live - losing readership. The main reason these sportswriters (and I've known a few good ones, who eventually quit because of this) write this garbage is to sell papers and stir up controversy, and also because they are bored and lazy - and it's easier to criticize, much easier, than to come up with something new and positive.

It's sad when you think of the legacy of sports journalism in LA, that this is now what we're left with. Not just LA of course, it's a national epidemic. Lazy, angry sportswriting.

Oh well, count me among the ignorers... Simers was on my list almost instantly a few years ago, the others are now, too, until, as one of you pointed out above, there's hardly anything left worth reading any more.


2005-10-19 11:29:49
60.   Eric Enders

No, he was a wide receiver.

Or, at least, so says the Michigan State media guide, plus every other written reference I've ever seen regarding Gibson's football career.

2005-10-19 11:30:34
61.   Improbable88
58 - Anf I only mention this to iterate how TOUGH Gibso truly is/was...yes Erstad was just a punter, but Gibson was TOUGHER than a wide receiver, HE WAS A TIGHT END! Which means he could lay wood as well as run a rout...good ol Gibby!
2005-10-19 11:31:36
62.   Improbable88
In an interview Gibson recently did concerning his career, as well as all the awesome inner workings and thoughts of the Eckersly at-bat, Gibson said he was a tight end. Maybe in high schoo?
2005-10-19 11:32:12
63.   Eric Enders
Anyone who was mystified by #54 can go here for clarification:!_in_culture#Cheers

2005-10-19 11:38:37
64.   Steelyeri
Maybe Depo should interview the same guy over and over. That way, every one will be exactly the same. That would shut them up:)
2005-10-19 11:43:24
65.   Eric Enders

Candidate #1: Paul? Paul DePodesta? Paul DePodesta, I thought that was you!

DePodesta: Hi, thanks for your interest in the Dodgers.
[Starts to walk away]

Candidate #1: Hey now, don't you tell me you don't remember me 'cause I sure as heckfire remember you.

DePodesta: Not a chance.

Candidate #1: Ned... Ryerson. "Needlenose Ned"? "Ned the Head"? C'mon, buddy. Case Western High. I did the whistling belly-button trick at the high school talent show? Bing. Ned Ryerson, got the shingles real bad senior year, almost didn't graduate? Bing, again. Ned Ryerson, I dated your sister Mary Pat a couple of times until you told me not to anymore? Well?

DePodesta: Ned Ryerson?

Candidate #1: BING!

DePodesta: Bing.

2005-10-19 11:53:08
66.   Bob Timmermann
In a 9/24/1978 AP article in the LA Times, the story about Michigan State's 49-21 win goes:

Flanker Kirk Gibson raced for one touchdown on a reverse and hauled in another long pass for another Saturday ...

Who runs a reverse with the tight end? Gibson's specialty was speed. Gibson would have been pretty small for a tight end. Even in the late 1970s.

2005-10-19 11:54:30
67.   LAT
65. You raise a good idea. Hire Bill Murray as the manager. He will sell lots of tickets and he doesn't have to know anything about baseball. Depo will make out the line-up cards and his bench coaches can make in-game strategy decisions. He will give great interviews, entertain the umpires and the fans. Lord knows the clubhouse atmosophere will be loose. Where is the down side in this?
2005-10-19 12:05:54
68.   gvette
67-- Only downside is that Murray is a Cub fan, and is waiting to be Dusty's replacement.

BUT, Lasorda protege Tony Danza is probably available.

2005-10-19 12:06:29
69.   Curtis Lowe
67- Brilliant!
2005-10-19 12:06:43
70.   dzzrtRatt
I think Billy Beane came close to your idea LAT. He hired Ned Ryerson, and then rehired him. Groundhog Day!

Maybe the Dodgers should have a lottery. An art center near here had a fundraising lottery where you could win a house. The Dodgers could raise money for Katrina relief by holding a lottery for who will manage the Dodgers in 2005. The winner would have to agree to stay with the team from March-the postseason, and do whatever DePodesta tells him.

2005-10-19 12:07:19
71.   Curtis Lowe
68- I think I read somewhere that Vince Vaughn is a Dodger fan or maybe Tom Hanks.
2005-10-19 12:09:21
72.   Jon Weisman
71 - Hanks goes to Dodger games but I thought he grew up in the Bay Area.
2005-10-19 12:10:18
73.   Eric Enders
Murray as manager would be annoying because we'd always be trying to figure out what he's whispering in the pitcher's ear on those mound visits.

Then there are the press conferences:

Bill Plaschke: "The bad news is, you lost 91 games. So what's the good news?"

New Dodger Manager: "Well, the whiskey works."

T.J. Simers: "So with McCourt being such a cheapskate, how do you plan to win with this measly payroll?"

New Dodger Manager: "The first thing I'll tell my players is this: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it."

2005-10-19 12:11:27
74.   Bob Timmermann
Tom Hanks used to be a vendor at the Oakland Coliseum.
2005-10-19 12:11:45
75.   Curtis Lowe
72- I remember Hanks wearing a Dodger hat with Jon Lovitz when the Dodgers and Giants played during the home opener.
2005-10-19 12:12:50
76.   Penarol1916
71. Vince Vaughn is a Cubs fans. In the Chicago Sun-Times yesterday John Favreau was making fun of him because John is a true White Sox fan, while Vince used to be but then jumped on the Cubs bandwagon.
2005-10-19 12:13:08
77.   Curtis Lowe
74- He could be like most A's fans and like the Dodgers because they, like the A's, hate the Giants.
2005-10-19 12:15:35
78.   Eric Enders
Ah, the Oakland A's of the 1970s. Where Tom Hanks sold peanuts, M.C. Hammer was the batboy, and my grandfather was director of security.
2005-10-19 12:16:45
79.   Eric Enders
"a Dodger hat with Jon Lovitz"

Worst. Marketing. Idea. Ever.

2005-10-19 12:16:58
80.   dzzrtRatt
Keisser's column is not only nasty, I think it's bad reporting. This:

"Jamie McCourt, his power-hungry wife who wears the Size 0 mini-skirts, is making a majority of the decisions alongside her key henchman, senior vice-president of public affairs Howard Sunkin, whose baseball background is the same as Jamie's dress size. His background is in public affairs and politics." patently untrue. I've run into Sunkin over the years, pre-Dodgers. He's a smart guy, smart enough to know what he knows and what he doesn't know. He helps the McCourts and the team deal with government and politicians, and that's plenty of work right there. He's not the kind of guy who would insert himself into baseball decisions.

I don't know Jamie McCourt, except I do know she's been her husband's business partner since long before he bought the Dodgers. It is quite typical in the real estate development business for family to be deeply involved, because such businesses usually start as small, entrepreneurial operations that run out of the founder's kitchen.

How Keisser gets away with dismissing Jamie McCourt's competence to be involved with her husband's business, without providing a single fact that would suggest she lacks such competence, strikes me as beyond lazy. There's a nice pasture somewhere for Bob Keisser, and the P-T should send him to it.

2005-10-19 12:16:59
81.   LAT
68. Danza after Taxi is fine but Whos the Boss and the Tony Danza Show take him out of the runnning.
2005-10-19 12:17:18
82.   Bob Timmermann
Interesting development by the Times here:

2005-10-19 12:27:15
83.   SMY
Maybe Kevin Costner should be manager. He's been in so many baseball movies he'd satisfy the "looks like a ballplayer" crowd.
2005-10-19 12:28:30
84.   LAT
Ratt, may have to disagree with you on this one. If your point is the reporter offers no support for his staement than I agree with you. But that does not make the staement wrong. Frank's business did not start in a kitchen. He came from a wealthy Boston family. More importantly, Jamie does not know anything about baseball. If she is making business decisions she may be qualified. I don't know. If she is making personel decisons, she is not qualified. But its her team and she can do with it what she likes.
2005-10-19 12:30:38
85.   gvette
82-- Maybe Tim Brown will get a blog, so we can ask him if he still thinks the Dodgers desperately need to trade for Mike Lowell.
2005-10-19 12:30:59
86.   Curtis Lowe
In all honesty I think Joe Pesci would turn this team around in 2006.
2005-10-19 12:31:58
87.   SMY
I highly doubt Jamie is making personnel decisions. Unless it was her idea to play Phillips at first base, I could see that.
2005-10-19 12:34:44
88.   Improbable88
66 - Exactly!
2005-10-19 12:37:34
89.   rageon
Since we're suggesting managers for the express purpose of selling tickets, may I suggest Jessica Alba?
2005-10-19 12:38:06
90.   jasonungar05
I am leaning towards Robert Wuhl.

Okay, well, uh... candlesticks always make a nice gift, and uh, maybe you could find out where she's registered and maybe a place-setting or maybe a silverware pattern. Okay, let's get two! Go get 'em

2005-10-19 12:39:15
91.   Bob Timmermann
Jason Phillips is not a Size 0.

I have a sister-in-law who is a Size 0. She is very small. Jamie McCourt looks to be on the petite side also. Why this is something to be held against her is puzzling.

Just think of how more mean-spirited Keisser would have been if Jamie McCourt were heavy.

2005-10-19 12:39:16
92.   Colorado Blue
84 - Regardless as to whether the statement is right or wrong, to coorelate one's ability to their fashion sense and equate it to essentially non-existent does not support a logical, well-thought-out argument. This guy belongs writing for the National Enquirer... nevermind, he wouldn't be able to meet their standards of professionalism.
2005-10-19 12:41:08
93.   Kayaker7
Maybe when these guys are talking about the manager who sells tickets, they mean that the manager would have to do double duty as a stadium worker, given how cheap the McCourts are.
2005-10-19 12:41:33
94.   Colorado Blue
80 - I do like the "key henchman" line. Very creative and original. Does this guy write bad detective novels in his spare time?
2005-10-19 12:41:39
95.   Penarol1916
88. Exactly? He just pulled up an article showing that your belief that Gibson was a tight end is wrong, why would you say, "Exactly!" Are you drunk?
2005-10-19 12:43:16
96.   Colorado Blue
93 - They couldn't be too cheap... they paid Tracy $750K to play Phillips at 1st base! I would have done it for $200K...
2005-10-19 12:43:32
97.   Improbable88
We're not all big believers in fasho-physiognomy?
2005-10-19 12:45:22
98.   Kayaker7
96 I would have done it for all you can eat Dodger dogs.
2005-10-19 12:45:47
99.   dagwich
How about Geena Davis? She certainly had what it takes in "A League of Their Own", plus she plays the Leader of the Free World on TV! I'd pay to see her as the manager.

Billy Bob Thornton played a baseball manager (albeit not in the Bigs).

Martin Sheen has the gravitas. Charlie could be the pitching coach.

2005-10-19 12:48:56
100.   SMY
89 -- I think you are on to something.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-10-19 12:49:37
101.   Improbable88

Q:"Who runs a reverse with the tight end?"
A: A team with Gibby!

"Gibson's specialty was speed. Gibson would have been pretty small for a tight end. Even in the late 1970s."

This I know, in the interview Gibby was talking about how he loved "laying wood" for a running back or a QB. Him being small or atypical for a Tight End of even a Fullback doesn't matter. This is Kirk Gibson we're talking about.

Not exactly an average guy. Not exactly a guy you would bet on to take home a league MVP. Not exactly a guy who would let things like size stop him.

2005-10-19 12:51:45
102.   gvette
91-- This is the type of "insight and analysis" from 60+ yr.old sportswriters that Kim Ng can look forward to when (if) she becomes the first female GM.
2005-10-19 12:52:48
103.   Todd
92 And the Enquirer actually sources its material very closely. They don't do the 85 Year Old Woman Claims Elvis Impregnated Her Dog stories...they don't like paying the damages....the Daily News on the other, they just let Steve Dilbeck write for them.
2005-10-19 12:54:57
104.   Steve
It may be true that Jamie McCourt "knows nothing about baseball," but how would we know that to be true? Keisser's ad hominems don't really get you there, so what does?
2005-10-19 12:55:02
105.   jasonungar05
Maybe when these guys are talking about the manager who sells tickets, they are really talking about Mike Tice the football coach in Minnesota?
2005-10-19 12:55:25
106.   Penarol1916
101. Except for the fact that the article explicitely states that he is a flanker, ie not a tight end or fullback, but a wide receiver. I find you somewhat frightening.
2005-10-19 12:57:04
107.   still bevens
And we thought Milton Bradley had problems:

Machete attack linked to Urbina
The Phillies pitcher faces accusations of violent behavior in his native Venezuela.

By Todd Zolecki
Inquirer Staff Writer

Phillies relief pitcher Ugueth Urbina has been questioned about his role in a bloody brawl Sunday on family property in Venezuela, according to newspaper reports.

The incident occurred after a welcome-home party for the pitcher. Urbina went out to eat, then returned about 2 a.m. with several people to the farm in the town of Ocumare del Tuy, about 25 miles south of Caracas, several Venezuelan newspapers reported.

According to one of the farmworkers, Urbina started asking about a firearm that had disappeared. The worker, 21-year-old Ricardo Osal, told police that Urbina and others rounded up the workers, beat them, attacked them with a machete, then splattered gasoline and paint thinner on them and burned them.

2005-10-19 12:57:37
108.   Kayaker7
105 Is this the guy who got in trouble for ticket scalping?
2005-10-19 12:59:00
109.   Improbable88
106 - I find you, not somewhat, but entirely humorless.
2005-10-19 13:02:52
110.   Improbable88
106 - And i did admit that maybe his days of rougher positions were played in high school...but the fact remains that Gibby is manlier than Erstad (which is how this started), that Gibby can lay the wood!
2005-10-19 13:08:45
111.   Curtis Lowe
107- What the?
2005-10-19 13:10:29
112.   jasonungar05
2005-10-19 13:11:33
113.   Penarol1916
110. Nobody ever disputes the fact that Gibson is tougher than Erstad. As for being humorless, I fail to see how disliking unthinking hero-worship has anything to do with humor.
2005-10-19 13:13:42
114.   Vishal
[86] i thought joe pesci already manages the yankees?
2005-10-19 13:15:14
115.   Marty
"lay the wood" sounds more to me like a porn phrase than a sports phrase.
2005-10-19 13:16:06
116.   GoBears
109, 113

I think the point is that Improbable's "hero worship of the 88 team, especially Hershiser and Gibson, is so over the top that we must infer that it is offered tongue-in-cheek. Not ironically (as with the long-running, but thankfully dead riff on "Alex Cora would have..." but simply as cartoonish hyperbole.

That said, we get it, Improbable. You love Gibson and Orel. So do most of us. Nuff said. Let's move on.

2005-10-19 13:17:00
117.   GoBears
Hmm, I seem to have lost a close-quote and a close-paren in 116. Gremlins, I tell ya!
2005-10-19 13:17:23
118.   Marty
Which reminds me of Letterman's top ten list of "phrases that sound dirty but aren't"

No. 1: "Shaking hands with Abraham Lincoln"

2005-10-19 13:17:41
119.   Curtis Lowe
116- Alex Cora for manager?
2005-10-19 13:18:56
120.   dzzrtRatt
84 I might not have been clear. I was really making two points:

1. It is unlikely that Jamie McCourt or Howard Sunkin are making baseball decisions of any kind, and Keisser offers zero facts to the contrary, just a snarky assertion.

2. It is very likely that Jamie McCourt is involved on many other aspects of running the Dodgers. Keisser and other writers assume she is unqualified, and I think that assumption, without evidence, is indefensible and insulting.

Frank McCourt might be from a wealthy Boston family, but real estate development is, nonetheless, an entrepreneurial, mom-and-pop kind of business, even at the high-stakes level where the McCourts played.

Many of Sunkin's clients (at Cerrell Associates, his employer prior to the Dodgers) were just this sort of developer. I'm sure he understands how they think. It's an odd industry, not particularly corporate, and each business is a precise reflection of its founder/owner's idiosyncracies. It is also a business that is highly nepotistic--because sometimes there's no cash flow, and it's easier to skip payroll when it's your wife or son.

McCourt obviously trusts his wife and other family members a lot. It looks weird from the outside. But from his perspective, I imagine he's worked with them before, and he knows what they can and can't do.

2005-10-19 13:20:11
121.   capdodger
116 That's the dangerous thing about surfing the internet with a non- or mal-functional sarcasm detector.
2005-10-19 13:22:57
122.   Penarol1916
116. At first I thought so, but it is just so unrelenting that only Andy Kaufman would have this kind of commitment to a bit.
2005-10-19 13:23:44
123.   fanerman
121 - A sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention.
2005-10-19 13:25:53
124.   capdodger
122 It could be like on "Family Guy" where a throwaway joke (such as Peter hitting his knee)is extended out to fill 45 seconds. The joke becomes that it goes on for sooooo loooooong.
2005-10-19 13:29:16
125.   Improbable88
122 - Then call me Andy. And a bit, yes, but hey, it's GIBBY!
2005-10-19 13:30:37
126.   Uncle Miltie
107- he didn't burn them, but he came close

"He hit us, threatened us with machetes, poured gasoline on us, and it was only by chance that he didn't burn us all," said Argenis Farias, one of five laborers hurt in the incident. The investigation continues and it's possible that charges could be filed.

This is the same Urbina who was driving drunk while firing off a guns in the air.

Wouldn't it be funny if he signed with the Angels. Plaschke would write an article about him how tough he is because of how he dealt with the drug lords who kidnapped his mother.

2005-10-19 13:31:31
127.   TheDictator
110-Given the Gibson is the toughest man to play baseball in SoCal :-), how would he fit in DePo's Moneyball scheme?

The Dictator

2005-10-19 13:31:49
128.   Improbable88
thanks though Capdodger, for providing the reason to the rhyme for the skeptics...
2005-10-19 13:31:51
129.   SMY
126 -- Plus he'd obviously be a good clubhouse guy because he throws raging parties, instead of reading motorcycle magazines or thinking about Jesus.
2005-10-19 13:32:10
130.   still bevens
I thought I read something about Jamie McCourt's MBA project being about running a baseball team? Surely this sort of intensive research would yield information that would be useful in helping the McCourts run the show. Did I read that here or am I making it up?
2005-10-19 13:32:24
131.   fanerman
127 - With his injury issues as a player, he'd fit right in ;).
2005-10-19 13:32:40
132.   Mark Linsey
He could be like most A's fans and like the Dodgers because they, like the A's, hate the Giants.

I don't think this is true of most A's fans, or at least all the A's fans that I know and a lot of the people I see commenting on A's blogs. I think a lot of them are still bitter about 1988.

2005-10-19 13:33:14
133.   Uncle Miltie
129- He's a "warrior" unlike J.D. Ghost. Literally.
2005-10-19 13:34:09
134.   das411
124 - Wow, looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking...
2005-10-19 13:35:51
135.   TheDictator
Seriously, does anyone know anything about Gibson's managerial philosophy?
2005-10-19 13:36:29
136.   Improbable88
127 - All said, I do not think Gibby would function well as a manager, at least, immediately. He doesn't seem like the kinda guy to take orders from anybody..and DOES, seem like the Phil Garner kinda manager who would do certain things just by feel.

All said, again, I do think Gibby would be an asset to any coaching staff, and could really have a positive impact on a team in a diminshed role, like bench coach or third base coach. Just having the guy's winning attitude, reluctance to accept anything less than 100% and legacy would be an inspiration to the Dodgers.

2005-10-19 13:41:04
137.   Curtis Lowe
132- Most A's fans I know dislike the Dodgers but hate the Giants,and root for the dodgers when they play the Giants. Its a whole Oakland Sanfran rivalry thing.
2005-10-19 13:42:53
138.   jasonungar05
Keisser has me all worried that Jaimie McCourt is really Rachel Phelps.

Rachel is the Owner of the Clevland Indians in Major Leauges. I love that movie.

2005-10-19 13:43:32
139.   Todd
I think Gibby's managerial philosophy is-dude, watch ESPN Classic to see what I did...and cowboy up. OK, that's a lie, it's probably a bit more complex than that.
2005-10-19 13:46:52
140.   MikeB
Did anyone here watch Fred Roggin's segment on the KNBC-4 6PM newscast last night?

At the end of his segment, Roggin announced that Terry Collins was the "assumed" front-runner to be the next Dodger manager.

Then, with no clear introduction of what he was about to show the audience, he ran an archive video clip of Collins with tears in his eyes telling reporters why he was quitting as manager of the Angels (in 1999).

After the clip ran, Roggins smirked and said he understood why Collins was so upset - he was working for the McCourts and DePodesta.

He did not provide a reference as to what the clip actually represented. Pretty cheesy I thought.

2005-10-19 13:50:57
141.   Todd
140 That is totally classless and uncalled for, no doubt. What exactly Roggin has against them, I don't know. Oh well, maybe he's frustrated at being at NBC4 for about 87 years now and not getting a call up to the big club.
2005-10-19 13:53:29
142.   DXMachina
Isn't Urbina the guy who spent months trying to ransom his mother back from kidnappers? He leads an interesting life.
2005-10-19 13:54:24
143.   dzzrtRatt
140 Sports talk radio, daily newspaper columnists, and TV sports broadcasters. I think we can pretty much agree they all occupy the same little entertainment niche, appealing to what they think is the "average fan," who is assumed to be constantly disgruntled, disenchanted, outraged, and fatalistic about their team's chances, except for those brief moments when their team 'wins it all.' These broadcasters, in short, think very little of the intelligence of people they are talking to.

The tar is getting soft under these mastadons' feet. Pretty soon we won't be able to see them at all, but we'll hear them screaming all the way down.

2005-10-19 13:57:02
144.   Penarol1916
143. Wow, that was a very cool metaphor.
2005-10-19 13:57:06
145.   Steve
The sports media follows, it does not lead.
2005-10-19 13:57:48
146.   molokai
1. Saw Gibson play football and he was a very fast and gifted wide reciever. Many thought he'd be able to play in the NFL. My wife thinks he has a tight end but he never played one.

2. Strong women like Mrs. McCourt are always easy material for the male press to dump on. Sounds to me like much the same BS that was poured on Mrs. Clinton that was independent of her political views. A successfull woman still scares plenty of males and the only way for them to deal with it is to make fun of or ridicule their attempts to succeed in a male dominated area. For me the McCourt and Depodesta bashing has become bizarre. I guess when you fire friends of the press you are screwed. Something to remember in the future.

3. It is very strange to me that players like
Willie Randolf/Frank Robinson/Joe Morgan who played exactly the type of ball that anyone at BP would love don't understand what made them such great ballplayers. Billy Beane was a crappy player and yet understands what makes a great player. Most hitting coaches were crappy hitters. Not to many HOF pitchers have been successful pitching coaches. I'll never understand why the best to play the game are never good at teaching/managing the game.

2005-10-19 14:02:56
147.   Penarol1916
Has anyone else read in the comments section of 6-4-2 about the Jaime McCourt article that she deserves what she gets because she revealed her dress size to the media?
2005-10-19 14:08:31
148.   gvette
140-- Roggin considers Ross Porter, who preceeded him at KNBC, as his mentor. So it's open season on the Dodgers and the McCourts on his radio show and sportscast.

Lucky for the Dodgers and the McCourts, except for the USC football broadcasts, no one listens to Roggin's radio station.

2005-10-19 14:10:51
149.   Linkmeister
143 "Sports talk radio"

Um, extend it to ALL talk radio. It caters to the lowest-common-denominator listener who already agrees with the talker's perspective.

2005-10-19 14:11:32
150.   MikeB
143. One complaint I keep reading in our local press - how come Dodger fans are so loyal?

Why did we keep on going to Dodger games in near-record numbers this season? Why did we pay for parking, buy hot dogs and beer, have a good time and cheer for the Jasons.

Why aren't we all grabbing our pitchforks and blazing torches and storming the gates of the McCourt mansions? (they own two homes in So. Cal now. That really seems to bother Simers).

Our beloved sportwriters seem very perplexed and bewildered by the fans refusal to turn their backs on the team.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-10-19 14:12:15
151.   Kayaker7
147 Who's Jaime McCourt? Their adopted son? ;-)
2005-10-19 14:18:42
152.   Penarol1916
151. Oh you didn't know, that who (s)he maintains that boyishly slim figure.
2005-10-19 14:20:36
153.   Colorado Blue
151 - Jaime McCourt nee Jarrin.
2005-10-19 14:21:03
154.   das411
142 - Yeah, this totally didn't faze me at all when I was browsing the headlines today. It's like, "Ownership continues GM search," "Thome still injured" and then "Urbina attacks friends with machete." Philles fan = seen it all.

138 - Seconded. There is actually a picture from that movie up on that Gary Gaetti website...

2005-10-19 14:32:31
155.   dzzrtRatt
149 Interestingly (and this might stray off DT topic a bit), sports talk radio is seen as very much a relic of the media's past, but politically-oriented talk radio is seen as the vanguard of the 'new media' that includes blogs.

My belief is that political talk radio is not new media. It was innovative in that it filled an ideological vacuum, i.e. before Rush Limbaugh, no one was speaking to or for the "right wing." But it's still basically one-way communication. Rush and his ilk, including his left-wing imitators on Air America, unilaterally decide which callers get through, and use those callers to illustrate the points they want to make.

Whereas the true new media, found only on the Internet so far, is distinguished by being two things: Instantaneous, and interactive. Jon writes, say, 500 words a day on this site, more or less. The posters write...gobs more. I couldn't even guess, but it's a factor of at least 100, maybe 1000 on a busy day. But it's all part of the DT experience.

2005-10-19 14:37:08
156.   FirstMohican
If Gibson were manager, JD Drew would play 162 games. It won't be pretty.
2005-10-19 14:45:02
157.   Todd
155 Yeah, don't wanna get too far off-topic or inflame readers either but I agree, talk-radio is about as pre-historic a medium as there is. Does not encourage wide-spread involvement as do blogs and websites such as this which allow user comments and as dzzrtRt said, producers decide who gets through. And the content is fairly limited in terms of political "perspective" (never thought I'd use that term with respect to talk radio). Anyway, Rush came to prominence sometime ago...and the left now seems to be recognizing the importantce of getting their message out.
2005-10-19 14:47:16
158.   Monterey Chris
I imagine that how Ross Porter was treated did not help the McCourts in their relationship with the media. The impression I got was that Ross Porter was well liked by his peers.

However, I liked the McCourts until I just found out that Mrs. McCourt is comparable to Mrs. Clinton.

2005-10-19 14:48:47
159.   Monterey Chris
156--Bradley v. Gibson would happen fairly quickly.
2005-10-19 14:53:37
160.   Uncle Miltie
156- I just had a hilarious visual of Kirk Gibson clenching his fist, while standing on the dugout steps and J.D. Drew pleading with him to come out of a game with a broken leg.
2005-10-19 15:04:16
161.   LetsGoDodgers
140. Fred Roggin is the Steve Howe of sports journalism.
2005-10-19 15:07:19
162.   Eric Enders
"156--Bradley v. Gibson would happen fairly quickly."

That might be a good thing, no? Maybe a Gibson butt-whooping is exactly what's needed to keep Bradley on the straight and narrow -- either as manager, or bench coach, or whatever.

Personally, I'd like to see the studious-and-by-all-accounts-willing-to-learn Hershiser get an assistant GM position or something similar.

2005-10-19 15:08:54
163.   Eric Enders
"I just had a hilarious visual of Kirk Gibson clenching his fist, while standing on the dugout steps and J.D. Drew pleading with him to come out of a game with a broken leg."

The jokes are funny, and the man is a hero of mine, but let's face it, folks -- Gibson's Dodger career was a lot more injury-marred than Drew's has been so far.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

2005-10-19 15:09:44
164.   LetsGoDodgers
162. I'd like to see Hershiser be the Dodgers pitching coach for 2006, bench coach for 2007 and 2008, then manager in 2009. That is, assuming he and his charges improve over time.
2005-10-19 15:10:19
165.   King of the Hobos
The Peoria Javelinas had managed to no hit Phoenix (!!!) through 25 outs. Brian Wolfe needed 2 outs to finish the no hitter, as PH James Loney stepped to the plate. First pitch...over Nick Markakis' head and over the wall.

Loney is now 4-13 with a double and 2 homers playing on the taxi squad (only play 2 days a week). A nice break out season next year for Loney would be great...

2005-10-19 15:15:04
166.   molokai
Kirk Gibson missed a lot more games to injury then JD Drew has. As someone else noted he only played over 140 games 3 times in a 16 year career. I'm sure he understands injuries better then anyone and would get along just fine with JD Drew. My gut feeling is that he'd make a terrible manager.
2005-10-19 15:18:18
167.   Sushirabbit
157, actually I think Rush and Blogs happened for the exact same reasons, people thought they weren't getting accurate info and so found away around the "institutionalized" media. Some of that back then seemed fairly grassroots and still is in certain places, just like it seems here... Not to say that either lacks for crackpots or juvenalia.

162-163... I was thinking the same things, Orel in a suit. I'd like to see him get a shot at some pitching coaching, though. It's easy to think that Gibson or someone would be good for Bradley. I think he's had several chances to see what others have done. Evidence so far suggests it doesn't seem to be taking. I wonder if Gibson would have an F-ing filled F-ing tirade about F-ing up an F-ing pitch.

2005-10-19 15:21:13
168.   FirstMohican
Lets just clone Lasorda and rebuild until Lasorda 2050 is ready.
2005-10-19 15:27:32
169.   Eric Enders
In that case, just shoot me now and get it over with.
2005-10-19 15:28:46
170.   Jon Weisman
166 made the point I was about to make. The notion that Gibson is more of a gamer than Drew is pure hype. I love 1988 and I love that home run, but Gibson needed rest and rehab like anyone else, if not more so.
2005-10-19 15:29:19
171.   dzzrtRatt
166 Was Leo Durocher a good manager? Eddie Stankey? Ty Cobb? Larry Bowa? Lou Pineilla? Those players seem Gibby-like to me.

This seems like the day for stereotypes. The idea that Kirk Gibson would be a bad manager is based totally on visual cues. He looks like a big, dumb, fierce jock. Whereas other ex-player managers look like wise sages-- Felipe Alou, Dusty Baker, Frank Robinson. But it could turn out that Gibson is as brainy as we think Orel Hershiser is, and it could also turn out that Orel is a big pork rind eater.

I think Jon should interview all the candidates. He could bring Timmerman, Suffering Bruin, Steve of FJT, and a couple others with him. Maybe it would be best if they watched through a one-way mirror. If a manager candidate was okay with Jon and co., he'd be jake with me.

2005-10-19 15:33:54
172.   Curtis Lowe
171- I agree, from his interviews he seems like he knows what he's doing, when he stole home from second on the wild pitch he said he knew the catcher was hurting, he knew Eckersly's pitch, he seems like he studies and pays attention to teams weaknesses which is something that from what I saw of Tracy, he did not do.
2005-10-19 15:34:46
173.   Marty
I really don't care about having an ex-Dodger as the skipper. As if that gives them some edge over other candidates.

I also think 1988 may have been the worst thing that could have happened to this club in the long term. Everyone gets fixated on a horribly flawed team that by some miracle won it all, and holds it up as "The Dodger Way". Overachieving teams are fun to watch, but not much fun to rely upon.

2005-10-19 15:35:02
174.   Eric Enders
"But it could turn out that Gibson is as brainy as we think Orel Hershiser is, and it could also turn out that Orel is a big pork rind eater."

The former is certainly possible. But we know enough about Hershiser to be fairly confident that the latter is not.

2005-10-19 15:41:05
175.   FirstMohican
Who has a notion that Gibson was more of a gamer than Drew?
2005-10-19 15:42:06
176.   Curtis Lowe
173- But Marty Dodger Traditioin is to OverAchieve, they are no good Bums they are the average man that steps up and beats the oppressors, they are the underdog. They were Bums in Brooklyn and now they are Bums in LA.
2005-10-19 16:12:53
177.   dzzrtRatt
Dodger tradition is to overachieve when they aren't quite good enough, and to blow it when it looks like the odds are in their favor. It's been rare that a Dodger team has won when it was favored to, and when it wins, it's usually not favored to.
2005-10-19 16:17:22
178.   Todd
167 I think the difference between the rise of talk radio and the rise of blogs is that the best of talk radio is not really as insightful as the best of blogs.
2005-10-19 17:30:46
179.   molokai
Are you forgetting 63/65 or is that so long ago it doesn't count.

I don't see any of those ex-managers/players as comparable to Gibby. They were all hot headed infielders who talked to much. Gibby doesn't appear to be in love with his voice and really wasn't much of a hot head other then the spring training incident. Quiet and intense is much different then a loud hothead.

2005-10-19 19:36:39
180.   dan reines
"All of the candidates Terry Collins, Jerry Royster, etc share either a lack of success as a major league manager or a lack of experience. Now why would a team with the Dodgers' history go in that direction unless they wanted someone pliable and cheap?"

Sorry if someone's said this already -- I haven't had a chance to read all the comments, but:

Jon, Bob, Eric: Exactly how many managers in the history of the Los Angeles Dodgers were hired with major league managing experience under their belts?

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that the answer is just north of Jamie McCourt's dress size and just south of Tommy Lasorda's uniform number. And I seem to also remember that that hire worked out pretty poorly. Am I off base here?

Matter of fact, how many "Hollywood" managers have the Dodgers EVER had? I can think of one...

2005-10-19 19:54:26
181.   bill cox
165-Mark it down.Loney has more upside than many of our more heralded prospects.He's major league ready defensively now at a position where there's space.Since late July or August he's showed some power and been a good clutch hitter.You have to factor in his early injuries as slowing his development.
2005-10-19 21:36:18
182.   Eric Enders
The problem is, great defensive 1Bs are a dime a dozen. His defensive skills may indeed be wondrous, but they also provide very little value to his team.

Unless he improves his hitting a great deal, Loney has no chance of sticking in the majors, glove or no glove. I hope he does it, but...

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.