Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

14 Up
2005-10-26 09:26
by Jon Weisman

I love extra-inning baseball. Great moments from just the 14th inning of Game 3 Tuesday:

  • Morgan Ensberg's Nettles-like backhand of a Paul Konerko grounder to start a 5-4-3 double play
  • Geoff Blum's game-winning home run on a hard, low-and-inside pitch from Ezequiel Astacio
  • Hoping Astacio won't see the replay of Phil Garner throwing a chair once the ball went over the fence
  • Ensberg getting the yang for his yin almost immediately, unable to thwart two soft grounders from becoming infield singles
  • Feeling for a sagging Astacio as he struggled (and failed) to get out of the top of the 14th before allowing an insurance run
  • Counting down the players remaining on the bench - only seven out of 50 at game's end.
  • An energized Damaso Marte throwing three straight strikes to Ensberg to start the bottom of the 14th
  • Orlando Palmeiro pulling something of a Mike Davis '88 to keep the Astros alive with a walk
  • Juan Uribe backpedaling and then bobbling a Brad Ausmus grounder to sit me up wide-eyed
  • Mark Buehrle pulling something of an Orel Hershiser '88 to enter for the save after having thrown seven innings the previous game
  • Ozzie Guillen knowing he had thrown all in the pot
  • A 1-1 pitch ... and then a pop fly to Uribe, who did a quick practice snag with the ball in the air before catching it for a final out.
  • Usually, I prefer a 1-1 tie going into Game 3 of a series that I don't have a rooting interest in. But the 2-0 White Sox lead actually increased the stakes, turning it into a win-or-face the music night for the Astros. Houston ended the night with its most painful extra-inning defeat since the 16-inning loss to the Mets in 1986 (or, I suppose, Game 6 against the Cardinals in the National League Championship Series last year) and its most painful three-game losing streak since dropping the final three of the 1981 NL Division Series to the Dodgers after leading, 2-0. (And yes, I know the Astros have lost three consecutive postseason games a few times since '81.)

    Jayson Stark has a very enjoyable recap of Game 3 at

    And afterward, Blum traipsed into the interview room, where he was asked where this shot would rank on his list of biggest hits.

    "Good Lord," he laughed. "Have I had any big hits?"

    Joe Sheehan at Baseball Prospectus has a worthwhile review as well.

    Update: This is tonight's game chat thread.

    2005 World Series Game 4

    Comments (219)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2005-10-26 09:51:59
    1.   Xeifrank
    Great game last night, too bad I missed the extra innings. Was pretty amazed at how down Phil Garner was on his team and the post-game comments he made. vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 09:55:10
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    Garner was almost Tracy-like in his inability to accept any blame for his team's shortcomings.

    Garner is being outmaneuvered at every turn by Guillen. And that's not a good thing for a manager.

    Buerhle at least had a day off between his start and his relief appearance. Hershiser didn't. Hershiser started Games 1 and 3 because there a rain out before Game 3 in New York.

    2005-10-26 10:00:30
    3.   Steve
    2005-10-26 10:02:08
    4.   Jon Weisman
    2 - True enough, and Hershiser only had a one-run lead that he had to preserve.
    2005-10-26 10:05:15
    5.   Kayaker7
    I missed the 5-run inning while giving my son a bath. But leaving Oswalt in to give up that many runs appears to be a mistake. Oswalt was not himself the entir evening, and was lucky to escape the early inning without giving up runs. If Garner just limits the damage to 3-4 runs, and the Astros win. I would chalk to loss up to a managerial gaffe.
    2005-10-26 10:10:12
    6.   bigcpa
    Garner clearly should have pulled Astacio before he walked in the 2nd run. How do you let a rookie give up 4 hits and 2 walks in his first WS inning. The late hook was made more obvious when Wandy Rodriguez whiffed Podzilla on 3 pitches with the bases still loaded.
    2005-10-26 10:12:22
    7.   Jon Weisman
    2 continued: Tom Verducci echoes the point about Garner.

    2005-10-26 10:12:37
    8.   Telemachos
    All that being said, if the 'Stros are able to put a ball in play in the ninth with the runner on third and one out, they win.
    2005-10-26 10:18:04
    9.   Steve
    Well, Verducci wanted him to squeeze, so here you have a case of the dumb leading the dumber.
    2005-10-26 10:18:49
    10.   Jon Weisman
    8 - Absolutely. The point is not to pin all or even necessarily the majority of the blame on Garner.

    The point is, what kind of example does it set and how does it affect things when the manager doesn't take any responsibility for a loss.

    2005-10-26 10:23:14
    11.   Telemachos
    9- Aside from the Sox probably watching for the squeeze, I don't see a problem with doing a safety squeeze in that situation (if the count was in your favor).

    10- Oh, I definitely agree about that.

    2005-10-26 10:27:57
    12.   Steve
    Well, Biggio can hit. Or you can turn him into Jose Flores.
    2005-10-26 10:39:02
    13.   Linkmeister
    You can't entirely blame Garner for his team's inability to hit with runners in scoring position, though. The Astros could have won that game about three different times between the 8th and the 11th.
    2005-10-26 10:41:12
    14.   Telemachos
    12 I'm not saying do it with Biggio (who walked, right?). Nor that it's the best and/or only thing to do... merely that it's an option in that particular situation, where you just need a single run and can afford to lose an out to get that run.
    2005-10-26 10:42:00
    15.   Jacob L
    I hate to do this, but seeing as how Jon keeps us posted on every Jeffrey Hammonds or Curtis Borchardt development, I have to ask: was Blum's homer the biggest hit ever by a Cal Bear? I can't think of another contender.
    2005-10-26 10:45:15
    16.   das411
    12 - But Taveras apparently can't hit, and yet he somehow got seven at-bats last night.

    11 - What does the count matter? A safety squeeze WINS THE GAME there, does it not?

    And watch the dumb comments about Verducci, you guys do know he went to PSU right?

    2005-10-26 10:47:43
    17.   Steve
    Lots of things win the game there. As I am reminded ad nauseum every time I remind people that bunting with a runner on second and nobody out is a stupid thing to do.
    2005-10-26 10:48:21
    18.   das411
    Only six ABs for Taveras last night, sorry. But Palmiero was inserted in the 10th and still managed to get on base twice; why pull Burke when Taveras is dragging down your lineup like that?


    2005-10-26 10:52:29
    19.   Mark
    12 You mean turn him into Milton Bradley, right?
    2005-10-26 10:53:26
    20.   Steve
    Or JD Drew
    2005-10-26 11:04:36
    21.   Telemachos
    16 The count matters if the Sox are gonna throw a pitch-out, but you're right, if you do a safety squeeze you'll probably safe regardless of the count.

    17 Yes, absolutely. But a bunt should be considered an option, along with all the other possibilities. (And, yes, I agree that you probably shouldn't bunt with one of your big bats up.)

    2005-10-26 11:09:49
    22.   bigcpa
    Interesting blurb on Kenny Williams in today's NY Post:

    One AL GM said that the White Sox would be hard to emulate because White Sox GM "Kenny Williams is not a big character guy. He plugs holes and thinks only about high-ceiling talent and ignores risks, and a lot of that talent hit at once with guys like Bobby Jenks and Jose Contreras. I don't know if you can flat-out copy that."

    not a big character guy??
    ignores risks??

    Isn't that DePodesta's rap sheet? Now it's a template for winning championships.

    2005-10-26 11:18:46
    23.   das411
    I think it's more his Four Horsemen that are the template for winning.

    Penny, Lowe, Weaver, OPerez all had about the same playoff experience going into this season as Contreras, Buehrle, Garland, and Garcia...

    2005-10-26 11:19:27
    24.   Bob Timmermann
    Kenny Williams also said that only recently did he learn how to operate a computer. So just what do they teach people at Stanford anyway?
    2005-10-26 11:24:08
    25.   Eric Enders
    FOX ignored the elephant in the room, but I can't: What happened to Astacio's face?

    The previous biggest hit by a Cal Bear was probably Jeff Kent's walk-off homer in last year's NLCS.

    Although if the World Series MVP award had existed before the 1950s, a Cal Bear would likely have won it in both 1907 and 1908 (Orval Overall).

    2005-10-26 11:28:35
    26.   Bob Timmermann
    I looked at some images of Astacio from earlier in the year and from last year. It looks like he has a skin condition of some sort. I've learned from working in libraries that you don't pick up a dermatology book to find out what somebody might have. You need a very strong stomach to make it through those.
    2005-10-26 11:28:35
    27.   FirstMohican
    22 - I don't think the "AL GM" was suggesting it was a template for winning championships, seems to me like he was saying it was a template for being really good, bad, or somewhere in between.
    2005-10-26 11:29:55
    28.   FirstMohican
    26 - I wouldn't pick up a dermatology book unless I had to, which is exactly why I wouldn't unless I had to.
    2005-10-26 11:31:07
    29.   Bob Timmermann
    Sometimes in my work, I don't have a choice. Such as when somebody says, "Give me a dermatology textbook."
    2005-10-26 11:31:58
    30.   Eric Enders
    "Their opportunity has passed; the constant exodus of talent will relegate this team to second-tier status... The new master plan might be a bold stroke, but it's the sort of gamble that will more likely have the Sox keeping the Royals company in the basement than finally getting them back to the top of the standings."
    -- Baseball Prospectus 2005, on the White Sox' chances
    2005-10-26 11:32:54
    31.   FirstMohican
    I would just hand them an old issue of the Christian Science Monitor and hit the restroom.
    2005-10-26 11:33:09
    32.   Eric Enders
    The nice thing about Astacio pitching for Houston was that FOX immediately stopped using the extreme close-ups that are normally their stock in trade.
    2005-10-26 11:36:54
    33.   Uncle Miltie
    A couple years ago, Kenny Williams was arguably the worst GM in baseball. He's very smart and well spoken, but he had a tendency to get ripped off in trades. Apparently, he has learned from his mistakes, and has assembled one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. Recently, he has made a lot of solid moves and he doesn't have a $100 million payroll to work with.

    Extended Buehrle's contract
    Traded Loaiza for Contreras and cash
    Sign Iguchi (for 2 years, less than $5 million!)
    Signed Pierzynski for $2.5 million
    Traded Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe
    Signed Jermaine Dye
    Picked up Cliff Politte, Dustin Hermanson, and Bobby Jenks
    Hired Ozzy Guillen

    I'll admit that I used to not like Guillen very much because of "smartball". In the playoffs, he hasn't tried to force things. He really isn't playing smallball and has done a pretty solid job handling his pitching staff. He also gives great interviews.

    2005-10-26 11:38:51
    34.   Eric Enders
    In defense of Garner, I can see leaving Astacio in to walk in the run. To wit:

    1) You've probably already lost this game anyway, and

    2) Wandy Rodriguez was needed for long relief in Games 4 and 5, with Houston sending to the mound their worst starter and an injured guy, respectively.

    That doesn't mean I would have made the same decision, but I think it's defensible.

    2005-10-26 11:39:36
    35.   molokai
    I Don't understand your comment, could you please explain.
    Headed into 2005 the four Dodger pitchers you mentioned had all pitched in the postseason for a combined 95 innings and a record of 8/8. The four White Sox pitchers only had a combined 44 innings with Buehrle only having pitched 1/3 of an inning and Garland had never pitched in a postseason game. Garcia makes up the bulk of the innings with his 34 innings while with Seattle.
    Brad Penny and D Lowe were key pitchers in the post season on World Championship teams. D Lowe by himself almost doubles the White Sox post season experience.
    2005-10-26 11:41:12
    36.   Eric Enders
    Although they're miles apart personality-wise, Guillen appears to have the same managerial strengths and weaknesses of Jim Tracy: He looks like he has a genuine gift for managing personalities, but is often a witless nincompoop when it comes to game strategy.
    2005-10-26 11:45:20
    37.   Bob Timmermann
    One difference between Guillen and Tracy is that Tracy feels that he needs to use everybody on the bench at some time for spot starts. Guillen rarely did that because he knows that his bench players aren't particularly good. Tracy would try to get Pablo Ozuna more playing time. Guillen knows that he's good for pinch running and little else.
    2005-10-26 11:45:23
    38.   Jon Weisman
    24 - Computers were not a big part of student life in the early 1980s. Still possibly more likely to see a typewriter in a dorm room when Williams was there. The 1984 Super Bowl Mac ad might have been the tipping point.

    Others of that era can confirm. When I got to Stanford in 1985, I had a 128K Mac with an external drive that boosted it to 512K, and dormmates were often coming in to borrow it.

    Poor Kenny missed the boat.

    2005-10-26 11:51:25
    39.   Jon Weisman
    24/38 - How else can I respond to your cruel Stanford dig except by taking you literally? :)
    2005-10-26 11:53:22
    40.   Bob Timmermann
    I just expected more of a Stanford alum than that. I expected him to be versant in all forms of technology.
    2005-10-26 11:55:18
    41.   Eric Enders
    Bob just wanted to use the word "versant."
    2005-10-26 12:03:40
    42.   popup
    #38, Jon, you are correct about that time frame. Computers were just starting to appear when I finished school in 1981. No laptops in class, which I suppose could be either a good or bad thing. All things considered I am glad I graduated when I did.

    #30, Eric, does Baseball Prospectus have a web site? I am being facetious, but it just shows you that pundits of any persuation are most often wrong.

    Stan from Tacoma

    2005-10-26 12:04:00
    43.   bigcpa
    Did anyone catch the Minor League FA thread at Primer? A couple of former saber-studs are on the list:

    Jack Cust (26 yrs)
    .257/.402/.438 19hr, 115bb at AAA Sacto.
    No defense whatsoever but could be the New Grabowski.

    Graham Koonce (30 yrs)
    .268/.358/.488 23 hr to lead Intl. League

    2005-10-26 12:15:02
    44.   Bob Timmermann

    There is some truth to that statement.

    Remember that I'm fully expecting UCLA to lose to Stanford Saturday because that's just what I expect UCLA football teams to do.

    2005-10-26 12:29:11
    45.   gvette
    1) 43--Wasn't Cust supposed to be a "can't miss" prospect with the A's a few years ago. Will DePo go fishing in the Sacto FA well again, despite Grabowski and Edwards?

    2)Bob mentioned the death of former Congressman and LA City Councilman Ed Roybal on another thread. Roybal, plays a part in Dodger history.

    Since the topic still ignites passion on this site, Roybal,the sole LA Latino city councilman, was a vociferous critic of the Chavez Ravine deal with the Dodgers,and was vocal against the team in the 1959 referendum. He maintained a lifetime vow never to go to a Dodger game.

    Roybal was a pioneer in many ways, and has several public buildings in LA named for him. Unfortunately, having the misfortune of working with one of his grandchildren, his talent and passion appears not to have been passed on to some his descendants.

    3) 38-- When I started college (around the time that Lance Rautzhan and Charlie Hough were Dodger closers) calculators still cost nearly $100 and were bigger than Donald Trump's wallet.

    2005-10-26 12:35:19
    46.   Bob Timmermann
    Was Chavez Ravine in Roybal's district? I don't think it would have been. I think it was in John Holland's district, who was also an opponent of the Dodgers Chavez Ravine move.

    According to, Roybal didn't vote on the final measure in City Hall to approve the deal. Perhaps thinking it was a foregone conclusion, Roybal left town on a vacation.

    2005-10-26 12:39:05
    47.   Terry A
    Wonder if Bud Selig is planning to fine Sheryl Swoopes for making an announcement that upstaged the World Series...

    45 Yes, Cust was once a highly coveted prospect, but he's bounced around quite a bit since then.

    2005-10-26 13:07:06
    48.   bokonon42
    Somebody somewhere thought Ezequiel Astacio would make a good wallpaper. Alas, I've got a widescreen, so the aspect ratio is no good. It looks like severe acne, but I'm not a doctor.

    2005-10-26 13:08:19
    49.   FirstMohican
    45.2 - Unfortunately, having the misfortune of working with one of his grandchildren, his talent and passion appears not to have been passed on to some his descendants.

    That's a pretty rough thing to say. I don't think it's fair to expect someone to measure up against anyone else, even if they're related.

    2005-10-26 13:23:26
    50.   Marty
    Next to the Roybal Federal Building downtown is one of the goofiest instance of public art I can think of. It's called "The New World" and is mainly a bunch of child-like characters with over-sized genitalia. It's really a hoot. Apparently it caught a lot of protests when it was built and Roybal was quoted that he was afraid it would attract pedophiles. He ordered one "egregious" part of it removed, but it was restored after a protest from supporters. You really have to see it in person to appreciate how weird it is.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2005-10-26 13:30:05
    51.   das411
    35 - Right, the key to building a team that can win in the playoffs is solid starters, preferably those who have been there before. I didn't have time to look up the numbers but you back me up, and we shouldn't get caught up in the small ball thing because it is mostly an illusion (yet another game-winning HR last night). DePo's approach over the last two seasons has actually looked a lot like the way Williams has built these ChiSox, with regards to building depth through young players and proven veteran starters. That's it.
    2005-10-26 13:41:07
    52.   Nagman
    Slightly off topic but I assume a few of us have seen the newest Gatorade ad where they somehow manipulated video of Jordan's shot, Jeter's relay, and "The Catch"?

    Has anybody read anything on how they did that? Is it all computer generated/altered or did they use doubles and morph it in?

    Pretty cool. Beats the Burger King one (although that's not bad either).

    Sorry to diverge, and sorry if its been discussed.

    2005-10-26 13:52:03
    53.   molokai
    I wasn't trying to back you up, I tend to disagree. I couldn't care less about pitching playoff experience and recent World Champions like the White Sox, Marlins, and Angels have proven that it can be done with out a lot of it.
    2005-10-26 14:02:01
    54.   Jon Weisman
    52 - I thought that was a cool commercial, too.
    2005-10-26 14:12:10
    55.   King of the Hobos
    Loney has decided to finally show some power. He has hit his 4th homer in 23 ABs, and has 2 doubles on top of that. Still looking for the elusive walk though
    2005-10-26 14:32:02
    56.   fanerman
    55 - How did he do for the rest of the game?
    2005-10-26 14:36:45
    57.   sanchez101
    45. cust was a dback when he was a prospect, i think. dont forget that saenz also came from AAA sacramento.
    2005-10-26 14:41:04
    58.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    38. Jon: your 128K Mac was not beefed up to 512K by the external drive - since the 128 and 512 figures refer to RAM, not storage. The external drive must have been a spare floppy drive, so you could access two 400K capacity floppy disks at once.

    Oops. Geek alert.

    2005-10-26 14:49:21
    59.   Marty
    58 Yes, I remember the really old Macs having two floppies, one for the OS and one for storage. The company I worked for back in the 80's started buying Macs when the Mac II first came out. Our first PCs (DEC Rainbows) ran CP/M rather than DOS for an OS.
    2005-10-26 14:57:11
    60.   Jon Weisman
    58 - Sure, whatever you say.
    2005-10-26 15:23:24
    61.   gvette
    49--I don't think it's fair to expect someone to measure up against anyone else, especially if they are related.

    Yeah, well, law firms are funny that way, especially when the person involved constantly reminds others of their political heritage while working less hours, being less productive, and being less amenable to supervision than co-workers in the same job classification. Guess you had to be there.

    2005-10-26 15:29:02
    62.   HomeDePo
    I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Delwon Young is now in the Venezuelan Winter League and went 2-5 yesterday.
    2005-10-26 15:36:08
    63.   King of the Hobos
    56 The game wasn't over when I first bposted, but now that it is...

    Loney 2-3, HR, SF

    Hoorelbeke 1 IP, BB
    Dannemiller 1 IP, H, K

    2005-10-26 15:38:37
    64.   HomeDePo
    2005-10-26 15:49:49
    65.   King of the Hobos
    62 Young's playing 2B for the Aguilas, so I'm curious how the OF experiment worked out. He's now 5-16 with a walk and no XBHs in the VWL.
    Jon Weber made his debut in that game, but wasn't nearly as good

    Julio Pimental made his debut for the Azucareros del Este (DWL), giving up 2 hits and 2 runs without recording an out

    William Juarez has 8 Ks in 6 IP in the Nicaraguan League. I have no idea how good the talent in the league is

    2005-10-26 15:52:58
    66.   Eric Enders
    So Loney's got Spring Training and the Arizona Fall League pretty much nailed. I guess it's the six months in between he needs to work on.
    2005-10-26 15:57:45
    67.   natepurcell
    i think this power surge by loney shouldnt be discredited because it is the AFL. i mean, laroche has no homeruns, kemp only has 1, and both those players hit over 25 in the reg season.

    that said, i still dont know what to make of this power surge for loney. I hope its due to him finally developing power. i hope, i hopee.

    2005-10-26 16:18:31
    68.   Bob Timmermann
    Everybody's hero, Willy Taveras, is batting second again tonight for Houston.
    2005-10-26 16:25:26
    69.   Marty
    So, is this the game thread?
    2005-10-26 16:25:59
    70.   scareduck
    58,60 - ah, yes. I have a Mac Plus lovingly tucked away in storage in my garage. So far as I know it still works, but at some point I should just unload the damn thing. I have way too many old computers and electronic gizmos taking up space around here.

    When I was in college (1982-7 -- it takes a bit longer if you have to pay for large portions of it yourself), I was the last generation to use punchcards. The class after ours, the college threw away the old IBM 029 punches.

    2005-10-26 16:32:47
    71.   GoBears
    Nice post again, Jon. But this WS, and especially innings 9-13 last night, are testing my love of baseball. Or at least of televised baseball. When each pitch takes 45-60 seconds, when nearly every batter either walks or Ks (as they did for Houston for a while there), and when two already horrible announcers have nothing to talk about except to over-analyze every pitch, swing, scratch, and gum-chomp (no season series, or pennant race - no tomorrow or yesterday) but the overweening need to TALK, it can be excruciating. If I had a strong rooting interest, that might trump the above, or if Vin Scully were annoucing the game instead of Mr Know-it-all and Mr Hindsight-is-20/20, or if this were a classic matchup either of 2 powerhouses or of David-and-Goliath proportions, but without it, I'm just looking for good baseball, and it's hard to find. These are two seriously flawed teams, who deserve a ton of credit for surviving the season and the tournament, but who are not particularly compelling to watch. Thank you Jon, for pointing out the stuff I saw myself, but didn't appreciate at the time. I think the snail-like pace of the game is what really takes it out of me. I installed a new gas stove last night, and it only took one at-bat!
    2005-10-26 16:34:48
    72.   Marty
    Houston has been in every game. If it ends tonight, this is the most evenly-matched sweep I can remember.
    2005-10-26 16:36:20
    73.   Bob Timmermann
    I was in college the same time (1983-87) and I didn't use punch cards. I used punch cards in a high school computer class. But in my PASCAL programming class which I took in 1986, we used part of the UCLA mainframe on individual terminals.

    When I went to library school the next year in Berkeley, they made me take the PASCAL class all over again because they said it was substantially different. It wasn't. It was exactly the same and I even ended up lecturing the professor on why 2000 wasn't a leap year for a calendar program we working on.

    The knowledge of PASCAL programming has helped me about zero in my career.

    2005-10-26 16:38:34
    74.   Bob Timmermann
    Houston has been in every game. If it ends tonight, this is the most evenly-matched sweep I can remember.

    In his column today, Rob Neyer wrote that if Chicago wins tonight by 1 run, they will match the 1950 Yankees for smallest winning margin in a sweep at 6 runs.

    2005-10-26 16:42:09
    75.   Linkmeister
    73 That's all right. My knowledge of paper tape and punchcards was vast at the time, and is useless now.

    2005-10-26 16:42:58
    76.   GoBears
    73. Ditto. I used punch-cards in high school, but Unix for my PASCAL class at Cal. The book was called "Unix for People." Natch, it was referred to, in classic Berkeley political correctness as "Unix ARE People (too)."

    And I didn't get a computer until I needed to write my senior thesis. A Mac SE 30, with a 1 MB hard drive and very little RAM. Cost about $3000. I finally gave it to the Salvation Army a few years ago after it served me well as a door-stop for a decade or so.

    2005-10-26 16:52:00
    77.   Jon Weisman
    69 - Yes.

    71 - I certainly won't argue that the entire game or broadcast was greatness. It was sort of a cumulative thing for me.

    2005-10-26 17:00:35
    78.   Bob Timmermann
    The longest baseball game by innings (and likely by time) too I've ever seen in person involved the Astros.

    It's weird sitting in Milwaukee and watching the out of town scoreboard start to tick off all the games ending on the West Coast and knowing that you're still watching a game.

    2005-10-26 17:15:11
    79.   fawnkyj
    It could be the stadiums that they are playing in the AFL are smaller than in Jax or it could be that Loney has a better approach at the plate than Kemp and Laroche.
    2005-10-26 17:21:41
    80.   das411
    74 - Say Houston wins by 6 tonight, then what do we root for tomorrow Bob?

    Off topic but does anybody on this board have a NON-ipod mp3 player? I am shopping through some Sony ones right now and these things seem to be much better...any input from anybody would be quite helpful. Thanks!

    2005-10-26 17:25:12
    81.   fawnkyj
    My buddy has one of the Sony Mp3 players and he complains that they afre flimsy. He has returned 2 of them. The first one the volume just went off on it for no reason and the other one of the buttons stopped working.
    2005-10-26 17:27:57
    82.   FirstMohican
    80 - I'd stay away from any electronic devices that don't have an agressive, silhouette-themed advertising campaign.
    2005-10-26 17:29:31
    83.   FirstMohican
    80/81 - A friend has gone thru 2 Dells. He said he loved it before it died twice.
    2005-10-26 17:30:52
    84.   Bob Timmermann
    Then it's not a sweep and we just look for close 5-game series.

    I don't know what the closest margin is, but in 1974, Oakland beat the Dodgers by a total margin of five runs (16-11). Of course, several teams have been outscored while winning the World Series, but that's taken more games.

    2005-10-26 17:32:18
    85.   Bob Timmermann
    Is it my imagination or are White Sox fans a lot less annoying than Red Sox fans are about their team's futility in winning the World Series?

    Is there going to be an HBO special on the White Sox winning the World Series? I think not.

    2005-10-26 17:32:43
    86.   molokai
    I used punch cards in college back in 79 but thankfully they were never part of my programming experience in real life. Back in 79 no one was interested in Business Information Systems and I fell into it because all the accounting classes were packed and so I decided to give this unheralded area a try. In retrospect one my better decisions. I always loved the users who thought the only skill it took to be a programmer was to be able to type. Lately that seems to be the only skill needed to be employed by the LA Times Sports department.
    2005-10-26 17:33:15
    87.   Johnson
    "Delwon" is a nice confusion of "Delwyn" (ours) and "Delmon" (Tampa's). I can only keep them straight myself by remembering that we have the "Y"s - DelwYn Young and AndY LaRoche (as opposed to Delmon/Adam).
    2005-10-26 17:35:57
    88.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    71 - In reading this, I am imagining how the broadcast would have felt had Buck / McCaver said just about as little as the Astros did hit. I mean, sometimes when I attend a game, I like to just sit and listen. The sounds of the game are just magical all by themselves, even in the quiet moments between pitches when the fans aren't getting excited.

    I could have had a relaxing evening...

    2005-10-26 17:36:18
    89.   molokai
    Last night I wanted Houston to win so that we could have a great series but now I just want the White Sox to end the 2005 baseball season so we can find out who our manager is ASAP.

    How many Hispanic managers have won a World Series? I'm to lazy to look it up and I figure that Bob or Eric will know off the top of their heads.

    2005-10-26 17:37:37
    90.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    80 - try looking here:

    Might be a good place to post your question.

    2005-10-26 17:40:38
    91.   Bob Timmermann

    I'm a West Coast guy, so I would say Latino...

    But, there have been none. I don't believe any manager born outside of the U.S. has managed a pennant winner.

    2005-10-26 17:41:41
    92.   Borchard504
    Nice to see Fernando in the pre game. Tim McCarver though, help me.
    2005-10-26 17:46:38
    93.   molokai
    I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but anything that is happening in Arizona is not relevant. For perspective from John Sickels:
    Leaders in the Arizona League
    Batting Average: .479, Ken Harvey in 2002
    Hits: 68, Steve Pegues in 1992
    Doubles: 19, Carlos Lee in 1998
    Triples: 10, James Mouton in 1993
    Homers: 12, Tagg Bozied in 2002
    Walks: 37, Andy Fox in 1994
    RBI: 44, Orlando Miller in 1993
    Strikeouts: 83, Russ Branyan in 1997
    Steals: 24, Rick Holifield in 1994
    Slugging: .752, Ken Harvey in `02
    OBP: .537, Ken Harvey in `02
    ERA: 0.41, Elvin Nina in 2000
    Saves: 17, Eric Ludwick in 1996
    Strikeouts: 62, Alan Benes in 1995

    So other then Carlos Lee see any names that were above average Major Leaguers? It is a scouts league. To make any conclusions based on statistics from this league will lead you down the wrong path aka KC on Ryan Harvey.

    2005-10-26 17:53:20
    94.   Jon Weisman
    93 - Elvin Nina, traded by the Dodgers to Kansas City in 2004 for Mike Venafro.
    2005-10-26 17:58:59
    95.   Todd
    Please excuse this (sort of) spam Jon but I figure I've posted somewhat regularly here that you'll allow this one. If anyone wants to play fantasy NBA, me and some friends from the "real world", not to mention various Dodger and Laker groups, have a fantasy league set up. We still have two more spots in our league open and the draft is tomorrow afternoon at 2 (Pacific time). We had one person drop out. If you're interested in joining, visit and click on join an existing league. League ID # is 72858 and password ChavezRavine. Thanks very much; now back to your regularly-scheduled programming of Ozzie Guillen inventing sign language.
    2005-10-26 17:59:56
    96.   trainwreck
    I have a Dell Pocket DJ and I got it because I found it to be better than the iPod. Both of my housemates have iPods and my DJ's battery lasts a lot longer then their iPods. Also the DJ is cheaper and you do not have to buy a new battery as often (though Apple is apparently fixing that finally). I have had no problems with it at all and I find the buttons a little easier to use than the iPod, so I would recommend it.
    2005-10-26 18:39:28
    97.   Bob Timmermann
    This World Series needs an MVP. Konerko better hit a home run in this game so they can give the award to somebody.
    2005-10-26 18:52:58
    98.   Mark
    85 The White Sox don't have Ben Affleck rooting for them. Coincidence?
    2005-10-26 18:53:27
    99.   das411
    Wow, thanks for all the replies about the mp3 players, especially Brent for the link.

    I was going to post the following during the NLDS game 4 but Roger Clemens forced me to edit it a here is the original:

    Brandon Backe is the clutchiest --dude-- on his team.

    97 The MVP will be whoever drives in the winning run tonight, unless it is an Astro. In that case the MVP will be whoever drives in the winning run in game 7.

    2005-10-26 18:53:41
    100.   HomeDePo

    I have seen that commercial and think it is great. I have heard of the process (digital something... maybe splicing) and it is now an electoral class at some of the highschool's near me. I have seen one where a Tiger Woods fan put him in a golf video with Tiger and it looked like the kid was showing Tiger how to make the shot.

    What they do is they take appropriate film of the people involved (like Jeter whining, and luckily there was a lot of footage of that), and put it in at the right time. If you have tIVO or some sort of DVR then you can pause it and see some cut lines in the film. Its a pretty cool thing to do and I hope this post gives you a little background. If not, Google it ;)

    Jack, a Dodger fan...

    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2005-10-26 18:55:42
    101.   HomeDePo

    Does my old Commodor 64 beat you?

    2005-10-26 19:00:56
    102.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    Can't... listen.... to.... Joe... Buck... and... Tim.... McCarver.... ANYMORE!!!

    Stupid me for thinking about it. They are now driving me crazy! It is just like when you think of some lame jingle and then can't get it out of your heard. I wish they'd just keep quiet so I can hear the sounds of the crowd and the game...

    2005-10-26 19:09:12
    103.   Aug C
    Hershier claims his interview went really well, but goshdarnit, DePo wasn't present. Lasorda and McCourt gave the interview. I don't want to raise the alarm about McCourt making too many decisions himself, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the GM was at least at the interview, if not the one actually conducting the interview. (Orel apparently spoke to DePodesta on the phone.)

    2005-10-26 19:11:31
    104.   HomeDePo

    My spidey senses are going off da hook with some bad vibes.

    2005-10-26 19:13:10
    105.   Bob Timmermann
    Backe missed a chance at 6 straight Ks in a World Series game and joining the elite group of Hod Eller, Moe Drabowsky, and Todd Worrell.
    2005-10-26 19:16:02
    106.   Curtis Lowe
    103-If it's true that Depo didnt even bother showing up for the interview then Depo just went down a few notches on my respectometer.
    2005-10-26 19:22:03
    107.   Bob Timmermann
    We don't know why DePodesta couldn't show up in person. He may have had to have been somewhere else. There were organizational meetings that day.
    2005-10-26 19:23:37
    108.   das411
    105 - Bob, even you have to admit that Backe has been hella-clutch tonight though.
    2005-10-26 19:29:07
    109.   Bob Timmermann
    I just wanted to mention Hod Eller's name.
    2005-10-26 19:38:58
    110.   T Money
    Jon -

    Is the title for this post a reference to the great Michael Apted film series?

    2005-10-26 19:47:53
    111.   Aug C
    Re: #103, #107
    "We don't know why DePodesta couldn't show up in person."

    I totally agree, Bob. I didn't mean to insinuate McCourt was a bad owner or DePodesta was a bad GM. There may or may not have been a good reason for DePo's absence. Nevertheless, I would feel much better about things (i.e., Depodesta's role and future with the organization) if our guy (read: DePodesta) was there.

    2005-10-26 19:53:55
    112.   das411
    Do you guys pitch to Uribe or Crazy Carl?
    2005-10-26 20:06:32
    113.   das411
    Well look who's comin up...
    2005-10-26 20:11:00
    114.   Mark
    Wow. DePodesta had better have a damned good reason for not making that meeting...
    2005-10-26 20:27:52
    115.   Bob Timmermann
    And there's a rabbit loose on the bases!

    Except that Garner never has his fastest player try to steal.

    2005-10-26 20:31:18
    116.   regfairfield
    He could always bunt. That's worked out really well for him this post season.
    2005-10-26 20:32:03
    117.   Jon Weisman
    110 - Forced, but yes.

    114 - as I wrote in the 6-4-2 comments:

    So DePo had to do his part by phone, "at length." Is that a problem? Not a rhetorical question - I'm asking.

    It might be indicative of McCourt muscling DePo out of the process, but it might also be totally irrelevant. I don't think we should leap to conclusions.

    2005-10-26 20:36:44
    118.   Bob Timmermann
    2005-10-26 20:38:18
    119.   Bob Timmermann
    And a broken bat pretty much puts an end to this World Series.
    2005-10-26 20:39:41
    120.   Uncle Miltie
    5 years ago, Viz beats that out.
    2005-10-26 20:40:58
    121.   D4P
    Oh, come on, Jon. I just got down my "Jump To Conclusions Mat" from the attic.
    2005-10-26 20:41:57
    122.   das411
    Cmon Bob, Houston gets at least 3 swings. And probably not many more.
    2005-10-26 20:44:50
    123.   Bob Timmermann
    Lane, Ausmus, and Everett.

    If I were a White Sox fan, I'd be mighty happy.

    2005-10-26 20:45:14
    124.   Uncle Miltie
    Don't blame Guillen for that one
    2005-10-26 20:45:32
    125.   regfairfield
    The bunting emoticon is still firmly set to :(.
    2005-10-26 20:48:06
    126.   Steve
    A nice little up yours on the way to the championship from Ozzie Guillen. He'll bunt whenever he wants.
    2005-10-26 20:49:22
    127.   trainwreck
    Kind of odd this news comes from the Fort Worth newspaper, but as previously mentioned there are organizational meetings going on which is probably why DePo was not there. He interviewed him on the phone so what, he still interviewed him (I am sure DePo knows a lot about Orel anyways). Gee I wonder how Lasorda viewed Orel's interview.
    2005-10-26 20:50:14
    128.   Bob Timmermann
    Last World Series to end with a 1-0 game:

    1996 - Atlanta 1, Cleveland 0

    2005-10-26 20:52:47
    129.   regfairfield
    The worst World Series ending I can remember is Otis Nixon trying to bunt for a single to end the series.
    2005-10-26 20:53:01
    130.   Bob Timmermann
    Oops, that should have said 1995 in 128
    2005-10-26 20:54:22
    131.   HomeDePo

    Don't you mean Florida (or was that 97)?

    2005-10-26 20:54:47
    132.   das411
    Wow, why is Burke not running for Lane?
    2005-10-26 20:55:07
    133.   Mark
    117 When was the last time you heard of someone -- in any profession -- on the short list getting interviewed over the phone?
    2005-10-26 20:56:42
    134.   trainwreck
    Best Buy
    2005-10-26 20:56:48
    135.   regfairfield
    What difference does it make? DePo had an organizational meeting to go to, he did it on the phone.

    It's not like he was sitting on the couch in his underpants at home.

    2005-10-26 20:57:15
    136.   trainwreck
    and it is an automated call where you just answer yes or no questions
    2005-10-26 20:57:31
    137.   Bob Timmermann
    Other series that finished with a 1-0 game

    1991 - Minnesota 1, Atlanta 0
    1966 - Baltimore 1, Los Angeles 0
    1962 - New York 1, San Francisco 0
    1921 - New York NL 1, New York AL 0

    2005-10-26 20:58:04
    138.   Uncle Miltie
    Great play by Uribe. Way better than Jeter's "dive"
    2005-10-26 20:58:27
    139.   HomeDePo
    Phil Garner trying to go small ball, but what he does not realize is he just decreased his scoring chances...
    2005-10-26 20:58:31
    140.   Bob Timmermann
    And Uribe didn't fall into the stands either, so the runner had to stay at second.
    2005-10-26 20:59:04
    141.   King of the Hobos
    127 It's the same paper that first reported the Dodger received permission to speak to Hershiser
    2005-10-26 20:59:12
    142.   regfairfield
    I wonder if anyone's going to blame that guy in the blue jacket for not knocking the ball out of Uribe's hands.
    2005-10-26 20:59:59
    143.   MikeB
    Jenks for MVP?
    2005-10-26 21:00:24
    144.   Uncle Miltie
    143- not over yet
    2005-10-26 21:00:35
    145.   Bob Timmermann
    Jenks has a blown save. My vote is for Dye.
    2005-10-26 21:01:22
    146.   trainwreck
    You would think the LA newspapers would be the first to give a detailed description of how the interview went... actually scratch that last comment.
    2005-10-26 21:01:28
    147.   Xeifrank
    Ok, the World Series is over. Can we name our new manager now!? vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:01:29
    148.   regfairfield
    He did blow game 2. I think Crede's the favorite.
    2005-10-26 21:02:17
    149.   Xeifrank
    Phil Garner post game quote: "If we played another 31 innings, I doubt we'd score."
    2005-10-26 21:02:23
    150.   Steve
    Well, that was a fitting end, given that he was safe and all.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2005-10-26 21:03:01
    151.   HomeDePo
    I wonder how Orlando Palmeiro feels right about now...
    2005-10-26 21:03:17
    152.   Xeifrank
    WS MVP? Game 2 home plate ump?
    vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:03:41
    153.   King of the Hobos
    147 McCourt still has to host his interviews

    Despite the general feeling our manager would be announced the day after the WS, I don't it happening until Monday

    2005-10-26 21:03:47
    154.   Uncle Miltie
    145- agree, Dye for MVP
    2005-10-26 21:03:54
    155.   Xeifrank
    150. Replay showed him clearly out. vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:04:25
    156.   Mark
    Wow, bittersweet win for the Big Hurt.
    2005-10-26 21:05:08
    157.   Bob Timmermann
    Unlike other members of the Astros, Orlando Palmeiro already has a WS ring. A few Astros have them: Clemens, Pettite, Vizcaino.

    Lots of White Sox players have them now.

    2005-10-26 21:05:10
    158.   Xeifrank
    153. Monday is Halloween. I don't see it happening then. Any DT members going to dress up as DePodesta? vr, Xei :)
    2005-10-26 21:05:37
    159.   Uncle Miltie
    150- don't let your homerism get in the way of the truth.
    2005-10-26 21:06:34
    160.   Xeifrank
    11-1 post-season record vs Red Sox, Angels and Astros. Not too shabby. When was the last time that both the Japanese and World Series both ended in four game sweeps? Bob?
    vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:06:59
    161.   D4P
    Glasses? Pocket protector? Laptop?
    2005-10-26 21:06:59
    162.   King of the Hobos
    158 Why wouldn't they announce it on Monday? For fear of making Dodger fans angry, thus causing them to throw candy at small children?
    2005-10-26 21:07:52
    163.   King of the Hobos
    160 Run differential:

    US- 6 runs
    Japan- 29 runs

    2005-10-26 21:08:10
    164.   Steve
    Just kinda hopin'

    It will never make sense to give away outs when you have a hard enough time avoiding them in the first place. The logic is perverse.

    2005-10-26 21:08:27
    165.   King of the Hobos
    163 And the US teams played around 7 more innings...
    2005-10-26 21:08:30
    166.   Bob Timmermann
    And they played 2 fewer innings in Japan also.
    2005-10-26 21:08:34
    167.   Xeifrank
    I think a healthy Dodger team would've beat the White Sox in a 7 game series. vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:08:50
    168.   Steve
    Yeah, 159 caught me!
    2005-10-26 21:09:07
    169.   Bob Timmermann
    Oh yeah, last night's game was longer.
    2005-10-26 21:09:39
    170.   Curtis Lowe
    Face to Face is way differant than an over the phone interview, Depo not making the time to have a Face to Face in the flesh interview sends the message of Orel being a Fluff canidate crowd pleasing canidate.
    2005-10-26 21:10:48
    171.   Curtis Lowe
    165,166- Priceless.
    2005-10-26 21:11:10
    172.   Xeifrank
    170. I thought Depo used Yahoo Messenger to do all his interviews. Or is he more of an ICQ kinda guy? :) vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:11:14
    173.   Bob Timmermann
    Dye gets in the sponsor's name with the MVP trophy. He should get a job in NASCAR!
    2005-10-26 21:11:44
    174.   King of the Hobos
    167 The Dodgers team at the end of the season would have made yesterday's game a lot shorter. And there wouldn't have been the whole roof controversy
    2005-10-26 21:13:19
    175.   Steve
    It's sort of exciting to consider what the Plaschkers can do with the use of such a newfangled contraption as a telephone.
    2005-10-26 21:13:39
    176.   Xeifrank
    174. Jim Tracy kept us out of the postseason, thus increasing the White Sox chances of a world series title. :) vr, Xei
    2005-10-26 21:14:48
    177.   Vishal
    this little tidbit i read really bugged me:

    "Only one reason makes sense as to why Orel Hershiser would even consider managing the Los Angeles Dodgers. Here is a hint: consider Hershiser a disciple of Tommy Lasorda, from the same class as his former catcher Mike Scioscia; and, consider that Hershiser will suffer neither a fool or a statistical martinet gladly, when said martinet thinks chemistry doesn't count and the manager knows less of baseball than John McCain and Russ Feingold know of the First Amendment. Then, the prospective deal would seem to be Hershiser to the Dodgers in exchange for Paul DePodesta to the unemployment office. Presumably, that's where DePodesta might bump into someone willing to explain how statistical measurement plus chemical balance equaled the 2004 Red Sox. He already knows the sum of statistical measurements plus chemical imbalance."

    from some guy named jeff kallman here:

    now how does he know that hershiser would manage like lasorda and scioscia just because he was on the same team as them?? that's asinine.

    2005-10-26 21:16:03
    178.   Uncle Miltie
    Well, I'm an A's fan also, so it's nice to see Dye win a World Series. I didn't want to see Herbert's team win.
    2005-10-26 21:17:38
    179.   MikeB
    I would not get to worked up about a phone interview, yet. Especially knowing that Orel met with other senior Dodger management types including the owner and Tommy.

    There could be a very valid reason for why DePo could not be there in person. Family emergency perhaps? Not feeling well?

    I am curious about whether Mrs McCourt took part. I'm getting more convinced every day that she's the real power in the family and within the Dodgers.

    2005-10-26 21:20:47
    180.   fanerman
    It would still be idiotic for McCourt to get rid of the manager, have his GM conduct a search for a new manager, and then get rid of his GM. If McCourt is concerned about his public image, doing that won't help. The other idea is McCourt has lost his mind and has been consumed by whatever paranoia he has. It makes 0 sense to get rid of DePo now, but articles like that still make me edgy... at least for a couple minutes.
    2005-10-26 21:24:47
    181.   Steve
    I don't think anyone -- patient with McCourt or not, would claim that he is trusted to not do idiotic things yet.
    2005-10-26 21:26:26
    182.   Uncle Miltie
    Steve Lyons "I need a drink"
    Joe Buck "That may be the last we see of him"
    2005-10-26 21:29:53
    183.   King of the Hobos
    "nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, good bye" is a White signature song now? And do we need to speak it?
    2005-10-26 21:30:09
    184.   King of the Hobos
    183 *White Sox
    2005-10-26 21:33:07
    185.   King of the Hobos
    Anybody else wish they had the ability to hibernate for the next 4 months?
    2005-10-26 21:34:12
    186.   das411
    Wow, I just realized the MVP of the Chicago world champion team wore #23.

    Each of the last seven times that city has won one.

    2005-10-26 21:35:48
    187.   MikeB
    LA Times has posted tomorrow's TJ Simers column. TJ says Collins will be the manager, not Hersheiser. He's got some interesting quotes from Lasorda, and the obligatory kicks to the rear for the McCourts and DePodesta.
    2005-10-26 21:37:51
    188.   Bob Timmermann
    The song's title is "Na Na Hey Hey (Kiss Him Goodbye)" by Steam.

    It's pretty much this:

    Na, na, na, na
    Hey hey-ey, goodbye, hey hey-ey, goodbye
    Instrumental Interlude
    Na, na, na, na
    Na, na, na, na, hey, hey-ey, goodbye
    Na, na, na, na
    Na, na, na, na, hey, hey-ey, goodbye
    Na, na, na, na
    Na, na, na, na, hey, hey-ey, goodbye
    Na, na, na, na
    Na, na, na, na, hey, hey-ey, goodbye
    Na, na, na, na
    Na, na, na, na, hey, hey-ey, goodbye
    Na, na, na, na
    Na, na, na, na, hey, hey-ey, goodbye...

    2005-10-26 21:39:37
    189.   Bob Timmermann
    Before there was a #23, there was a championship MVP from Chicago who wore #95.
    2005-10-26 21:41:02
    190.   King of the Hobos
    "After all, DePodesta's original list of candidates to manage the big-market, storied Dodger franchise is just what you'd expect to get from DePodesta's computer after programming in salary demands, "yes, sir" capabilities and available lost souls"


    2005-10-26 21:43:55
    191.   trainwreck
    Come on it is not like they are big names like when we hired Tracy...or Lasorda...or Alston...or does the LA times staff even know what team they cover. They only seem to know of two people Depo and McCourt.
    2005-10-26 21:45:17
    192.   King of the Hobos
    I'll admit I'm surprised Lasorda seems to like Collins so much more than Hershiser.
    2005-10-26 21:52:03
    193.   King of the Hobos
    Gurnick on

    A club spokesman said general manager Paul DePodesta's short list of six candidates had not been narrowed down to finalists and second interviews had not been scheduled.

    That confirms my theory on when the announcement will occur. The article did seem to indicate DePo was at the Hershiser interview, which doesn't seem to be the case

    2005-10-26 21:53:10
    194.   Bob Timmermann
    The last Dodger manager who was a good player and with a good managerial record prior to Tracy would be Davey Johnson. I don't think Bill Russell qualifies as a famous player, but others disagree.

    You'd have to go back to Leo Durocher for a famous player who turned into a good manager. He wasn't a particularly good player.

    Durocher replaced future Hall of Fame pitcher Burleigh Grimes as manager. Grimes had a bad record. Max Carey had one good year and one bad year. Wilbert Robinson won two pennants.

    2005-10-26 21:54:40
    195.   MikeB
    My guess is Lasorda is a company guy and has a good sense of which way the breeze is already blowing. And, it sounds like he's genuinely concerned that if Orel got the job he might be walking into a bad situation about to get worse. No reason for Orel to take a hit in case the team loses badly again next season.
    A possible scenario?
    Collins is named manager. He would appear to be a compromise choice that McCourt and DePo can agree to. He's already in the organization, gets along with both parties, and has MLB experience. Safe choice.
    Hershesier is offered the pitching coach job.
    Royster and Lovullo are named bench coach and 3B coach (take your pick as to who gets what)
    2005-10-26 22:04:04
    196.   das411
    So the White Sox finished the season on a 16-1 run. That is a .941 winning percentage.


    2005-10-26 22:04:40
    197.   trainwreck
    Well sounds like Collins is going to be manager (I am shocked). Do not like how Lasorda said he should be the one making the decisions.
    2005-10-26 22:07:13
    198.   Curtis Lowe
    How depressing, 100 bucks says Collins doesnt make it past 3 yrs.
    2005-10-26 22:15:57
    199.   regfairfield
    How many moves has DePo made that have been accurately predicted in the media?

    Pretty much everything he has done has come out of left field.

    2005-10-26 22:25:41
    200.   trainwreck
    Well Drew was the one move I saw coming (all you had to do was look at his stats). Lowe was mentioned before we got him and so was Navarro, but that is about it.
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2005-10-26 22:29:36
    201.   MikeB
    It's actually a pretty smart move on the Dodgers part (if they actually thought of it) for Lasorda to leak the news (to Simers) - and give Collins his endorsement. After all, it's no secret Orel is one of Tommy's favorite all-time players. Backing Collins publicly softens the blow of not having Hersheiser (the people's choice according to Simers) named as manager.

    If Orel doesn't come back as the Dodger manager, why not return as the pitching coach or even bench coach? Get some more experience - and be sitting in the catbird seat when the next vacancy rolls around. In fact, it would not surprise me if he's offered a front office job instead of a coaching position.

    Stating the obvious - Collins (if he's the one) has to win right away. He's the one with MLB manager experience. If it was one of the younger, less experience guys, including Orel, the media might cut them some slack. But Collins will get no honeymoon. His job and DePodesta's are walkin' the line.

    2005-10-26 22:37:11
    202.   trainwreck
    DePo has said Orel was only interviewing for manager and not pitching coach or anything else. Basically he thinks the Rangers would not let him leave unless it was to manage.
    2005-10-26 22:40:13
    203.   MikeB
    202. What are the terms (years) on Orel's contract with Rangers? Do you think the Dodgers would be willing to compensate the Rangers - and the Rangers willing to take something - to get him for something other than manager?
    2005-10-26 22:45:15
    204.   trainwreck
    No, doubt Depo would ever give something up just to hire a bench coach or pitching coach.
    2005-10-26 22:46:23
    205.   King of the Hobos
    203 I believe his contract is up this year, although I'm not positive., which I use for contracts, says it was a one year deal for 2005 but has no specifics
    2005-10-27 00:26:07
    206.   A Slo
    I don't really take much out of the Simers Column besides the fact that Tommy considers it a prerequisite to have previous managerial experience, and Tommy is bitter about his role with the team. The Henson article and what Orel says really makes it sound like Orel will be with the Dodgers next year, in some capacity.
    2005-10-27 00:35:40
    207.   al bundy
    Regarding the mention in Henson's article, why would DePo not bother to meet in person with Orel? The appearance this presents is disturbing. DePo and Orel spoke on the phone for 3 hours, and that was apparently considered their official interview. But a face-to-face meeting is much more valuable. Orel was in town yesterday anyway. You'd think DePo would take an hour out of his day to meet with the guy! If only for the sake of appearance's or out of courtesy.

    It adds up to a big question mark in my mind. Are McCourt and Lasorda planning something without DePo's involvement? Or are they just doing DePo's PR work for him by interviewing an ex-Dodger?

    2005-10-27 00:44:43
    208.   the OZ
    158 -

    Actually, I DID dress up as DePodesta for Halloween last year as a joke at a work party. Except I was "Zombie DePodesta", and went around moaning things like, "UHNNNNNN..... WAAALLLLLLLKS..... OH-BEE-PEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....", in my best Zombie voice.

    2005-10-27 06:37:22
    209.   Vishal
    [206] tommy didn't say anything that made him sound bitter. that was all simers' editorializing, based purely on the fact that depodesta didn't interview bobby valentine. well, from what i understand, valentine is happy in japan and isn't really interested in managing the dodgers. at least that's what i thought i read.
    2005-10-27 07:10:47
    210.   Eric Enders
    " tommy didn't say anything that made him sound bitter."

    Well, except for the part where he said he should be the GM.

    And we all remember how well that turned out.

    2005-10-27 07:19:48
    211.   King of the Hobos
    207 The report was Orel left after Tuesday, so he wasn't in town. Not sure if that's true

    Tony Jackson reports there are 3 finalists:

    Orel Hershiser
    Terry Collins
    Alan Trammell

    Sorry for the Lovullo fans out there, although you never know, he could end up as the bench coach

    2005-10-27 07:21:46
    212.   King of the Hobos
    211 The article does say Trammell is "likely" the third finalist, just wanted to emphasize that
    2005-10-27 07:28:36
    213.   Steelyeri
    If they hire Trammell as manager, Gibson would likely be his bench coach. Then they could hire Hershiser as pitching coach and keep wallach as hitting coach to complete the all ex-player staff.
    2005-10-27 07:38:38
    214.   Bob Timmermann
    Another new name for the Giants home park? SBC has bought AT&T and has decided to take AT&T as its name.
    2005-10-27 07:53:42
    215.   TheDictator
    OK, all of you who think my Lasorda vs. DePo for control of the direction of the team was insane, notice how Hershiser was interviewed by McCourt and Lasorda. Don't you think that an interview this publicized would include DePo? (IMHO, he wasn't included because he wasn't wanted there) Yes DePo talked to him on the phone. But this smells of something Lasorda orchestrated.

    We will soon find out who is really the GM. Is it DePo or Lasorda? To be continued . . .

    2005-10-27 08:05:12
    216.   Improbable88
    215 - You think Lasoarda orchestrated the Hershiser interview? Is he publicly backing Collins as a cover-up? Is it possible that in Hershiser Depo has someone he can work with and mold while Lasorda gets a character guy who's a cornerstone in the Dodger tradition?

    All I know is the prospect of Terry Collins isn't too exciting. I don't want any crying managers. Ugh!

    I wish I thought there was a chance Orel hung around without getting the managerial job.

    AND, if this is some kind of publicity stunt, won't it backfire if Orel isn't picked? Will fans resent Collins? I mean, at least Trammel brings Gibby with him.

    2005-10-27 08:25:07
    217.   Kayaker7
    All this ado about Lasorda is annoying. Maybe the Dodgers keep around to make him feel important. If they cut ties with him, he'll probably make a lot of noise to the press about how he was mistreated.
    2005-10-27 08:34:13
    218.   Marty
    Sports Illustratrated writes about
    2005-10-27 09:20:48
    219.   bokonon42
    I think Vishal is right about Tommy. I took the line as a throw away, on his part; trying to be as funny as T.J. Mission Accomplished. Simers was the one who seemed a little fixated on the point. And, you know, completely ignorant of Tommy's tenure of terror.

    Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.