I posted in the other thread, but...:

I just had to ask. Just how much of a factor do you think it was to McCourt that the White Sox won the World Series, using a pseudo-Smallball, all the while Lasorda blustering how the out-wastin' was the Dodger way to play ball?

I'm thinking 4c is the option that may transpire.

However, there seems to be some fascination with Pat Gillick. It's been around the Dodgers since Campanis was fired.

If I'm ever home when the Dodger ticket salesperson calls, I'll be ready with my measured dissatisfaction.

Seeing Post-DePodesta really makes it sink in. Frankly Ng as GM would make me a feel a lot better. She knows this team and she obviously seems to be a smart baseball mind. I think she would be very rational in her decisions.

Guess what, I know McCourt's adress. And guess what I'm going to do this halloween.

Agree, but a couple things I almost positive about:
-Bobby Valentine will be the Dodgers next manager
-Orel Hershiser will be part of the organization in some capacity
-Pat Gillick is going to be strongly considered for GM
-Lasorda and the McCourts can go to ____________

On the other thread, Jon, I linked to a USA Today article about Jamie McCourt that suggests to me that she might, herself, want to play the role of new Dodger GM, with or without the title.

http://tinyurl.com/8jyto

It's now much clearer to me why the team hired Tipper Gore's former press secretary as VP for Communications. Jamie McCourt is campaigning for something that, in her mind, is a bigger deal than whether the Dodgers win the NL West, although the team's success is tied up in it. She wants her role as team president to be seen as something other than what it looks like to everyone else, nepotism; and viewed more along the lines of the Clinton 'two for one' presidency.

To me, putting Ng in as GM cuts both ways. Yes, it's a first. But--it takes the spotlight off La McCourt, and I'm not sure that's how she plays.

Ng is as deserving as anyone, but the McCourts wouldn't know a good thing if it slapped them in the face. They'll probably just fire her in May when Joe Randa starts out the season hitting .210.

I've had a sinking feeling in my gut all day. The kind you have when a girlfriend breaks up with you. It was us against the world, and there was so much hope. Now it just feels bleak.

4 Does it involve getting arrested for vandalism and trepassing?

2- I posted before I saw your post!

I don't think Valentine will become the GM because McCourt said "He has to have a keen eye for baseball talent, has to be a good communicator and have the experience to do the job of a GM and be able to work toward a common goal."
That should eliminate Kim Ng and Valentine

ESPN's Peter Gammons believes the Dodgers could make Orel Hershiser their general manager and Bobby Valentine the replacement for Jim Tracy.

Orel for GM?

and I thought no one understood my "Home Depo" T-shirt before...

I thought for sure the Times had gotten it wrong. It is unfathomable to me how the Dodgers franchsie has become a leaf in the wind.

No actually it involves doing absolutely nothing because it is way to far for me to go.

4- dress up as Depodesta and ask for your job back?

I think the White Sox success had little or no effect on McCourt.

Mazzone's successor spent last year helping Venafro pitch. Hopefully McDowell does better for the Braves than the 51s

Jon is correct, I think, in saying Depo's firing will be met with approval by the majority of fans. I think Depo's supporters (and I'm one of them) on this board and elsewhere are a distinct minority.

Official press release finally out:

http://tinyurl.com/8evgc

The press conference is up on dodgers.com

And for anyone who wants to see the potential Texas pratfall, it's on TBS

Boy oh boy. If the Old Boys' Club didn't like DePo, I'm sure they'll love Ng.

17 - COMPLETELY inappropriate

Right now, it looks like a lock that Orel will be GM and that Valentine will be the manager. If Tommy has the muscle to get DePodesta fired, why would we think that McCourt would make an independent decision at this point? It sounds like Lasorda has sufficiently captured McCourt to make his wishes become reality.

Prior experience is not necessarily a requirement for the new GM, and the manger search has been suspended

UCLA you have to win. If Texas and Georgia go down in the same day we make a big move in the rankings.

10- The masculine pronoun is, traditionally, all inclusive. "He or She has to have. . ." is cumbersome and ugly. I don't take it as a hint that the new GM will definitely be a man.

This new PR firm, apparrently, thinks it can pretend they never fired DePo. The headline of the article is about beginning a new search. McCourt "told" DePo the Dodgers were "moving on."

This is very odd and it smacks of a disconnect with reality.

Shouldn't it say somewhere in the article that DePo was fired. And it really doesn't seem that McCourt felt any need to explain why the move was made, or answer any questions from the press.

This just keeps getting worse and worse.

15 Ya think? McCourts comes in, which business degree credentials. They read up on the "best practices" for the industry of baseball, and they come across this "Moneyball" thing, which was a best seller among the financial community, even earning Michael Lewis an interview on the NPR investing show, "The Motley Fool." In the span of this disappointing season, deluded in this notion of Dodger tradition, Lasorda yapping in his ear, the White Sox and the Astros bunting their way into the World Series, I think McCourt got his faith in statistical analysis shaken.

Of course, statistics are fundamental to analyzing a game in which the winningest team can only sport a modest 62% winning percentage, a far cry from a typical dominating football team. Even the worst team wins 40% of the time.

I think McCourt punted.

(Sorry for the numerous football references)

25 The manager search has also been suspended. Rumor is the manger will be for Choi to eat of, before he's taken out to pasture...

I am a long way from LA. Does Jamie McCourt consider herself some sort of baseball expert? If everyone wants a GM/manager to be on the same page, LaSorda as GM and Valentine as manager would accomplish that. If that is the way this whole sordid mess plays out, I will be disgusted but not surprised.

Stan from Tacoma

23 - OMG. Sorry Jon. I wasn't thinking when I did this. I'm only 15 years old. And I was very dissapointed by what happened today. Now I must leave and never show my face here again.

32 - you don't have to go into exile - just don't do things like that

I want Hershiser to get the GM job. It's not because I have any real reason to believe that he'd be a great GM. I have no idea if he would be or not. The reason is that he's the only choice I can think of that will give me something to feel good about and get me on the new regime's side right away, despite my disgust at the ownership.

Yes, it's for sentimental reasons, and no, sentiment does not make for a winning baseball team. But as Jon's post says, there's an excellent chance that the Dodgers will have some success in 2006, and that McCourt (and others you can imagine) will crow about it. This would make me want to turn away from the Dodgers. But I want to remain a fan, and I can't find myself rooting for failure (as some anti-DePo fans appeared to do this past year). If I don't have good sentiment, it's going to be hard to be a fan. Hershiser in charge would allow me to remain one.

15, 29: I dunno, guys, I think there may be something to that, and DePo's quick dismissal is evidence. Did McCourt ever have faith in statistical analysis?

Or: McCourt didn't hire DePo because he shared DePo's Moneyball philosophy; he hired him because that philosophy was the hot new trend at the time. If McCourt is convinced that a different philosophy is the new trend, he goes that way next.

As you say, the LITE (Lasorda-in-the-Ear) factor can't be discounted...

I just read the press release on the Dodgers homepage. It sounds like Frank McCourt wants a GM that would not make him look so bad in the media. I think that is what he means by a "good communicator." Meaning, a guy who can charm the press, so that McCourt looks good. Good luck.

I find it interesting now that DePodesta was fired that everyone, the DePo haters, lovers and in betweeners are all looking at McCourt thinking what an idiot he is.

I said that he was as trustworthy as a used car salesman a month ago but was misunderstood...thinking I was referring to him as the parking lot attendant.

The problem with organization starts with the McCourts who thought they could take LA by storm. Well, they got the storm.

I'm glad that DePo is gone and the attributes that McCourt says that he wants in a new GM sound good. But, he always says what sounds good...This time he may have learned a lesson.

35 actually thinking about this earlier, the same thing occurred to me. Now little ball is hot! Let's get a little ball guy.

(Nevermind that the White Sox won because of good pitching and timely homeruns)

34 Yeah, I'm searching for reasons to stay fan, too.

Unsurprisingly, Kim Ng and Roy Smith are in charge of the Dodgers right now. I don't read people very well, so I have no idea how quick McCourt will be to sign a new GM

I posted this at the end of the other thread, before Jon started this one:

This whole baseball year has been wacky, so this Saturday afternoon massacre puts the cherry on top of the sundae, so to speak. At this point (today) I'm more a Depo fan than a Dodger fan, and I am glad he has 3 years to find a good situation for himself, on McCourt's dime. Unless the next GM really blows it the Dodgers will be fine for the next year or two, thanks to the good foundation Depo has built -- lots of key players are likely to move back to or exceed their expected performance (O. Perez, Lowe, Penny) and/or have healthy years (Gagne, Drew). Choi will be dealt for something useful or used wisely, and the new GM can jettison some of the deadwood. At this point the high minors are stocked. Somebody is walking into a wonderful situation -- even the press will give him (or her) a honeymoon.

The White Sox reminded me how much luck figures into success -- if enough players exceed expectations at the same time, and players stay healthy, anything is possible. For the Dodgers (and Depo) it was the exact opposite this year.

Yes, the firing of DePodesta has Haskinses and the Naccaratos walking hand in hand now marching against a common enemy.

It's an odd sight.

38 Of course, four of their pitchers pitching to the 90 percentile of the PECOTA forecast helps too.

41 My concern is that McClown will hire someone who will trade the prospects for overpriced declining veterans.

Choi seems more likley to be nontendered than traded for something useful or allowed to perform to potential.

There are plenty of nightmare scenarios

38 And signing guys cheap that no one else wanted thanks to character issues. I somehow doubt McCourt realizes this (if he actually wants to model the Dodgers after the White Sox)

38 sure, but that's still good (albeit unlikely) pitching, and has absolutely nothing to do with little ball.

I was holding out a candle of hope that McCourt would have a change of heart and keep Paul but now that it's official, a few thoughts in the midst of lesson planning (I'm on my third school in six weeks... no longer at Locke, I got transferred to King/Drew Magnet... It's been crazy...)

1. God, this stinks. On virtually every level, this decision is just so batbleep crazy I don't know where to begin. I do hate the McCourts with the heat of a thousand suns right now.

2. I think Lasorda turned the malleable McCourts against DePodesta.

3. If I had one, I'd bet the house that the Dodgers would improve dramatically next season. The moment that happens, the media will credit the team's newfound chemistry.

4. If Bobby Valentine is the new skipper and he's supposed to bring back good character to the Dodgers, it will be the first time "Bobby Valentine" and "good character" will be used in the same sentence.

5. Part of me doesn't want to put another dime into the pockets of people who I wouldn't hire to wash my car. But this is the Dodgers, my team, and unless they're owned by wholly amoral people, I'm stickin' with 'em. But if they start trading the future for "name" players who can help them win now (a la Shaw/Konerko), I'm out.

Just a sad, sad day, IMHO.

Actually, after all these years as a fan, I'm more bemused than angry. It's amazing what turns life and the Dodgers take. I'm glad Depo has a three-year cushion and hope he lands somewhere where his talents are appreciated.

45 I tend to think he doesn't have a Model, so much as he doesn't know what he's doing, and is simply chasing the latest trend. Next year, someone else will win by some other formula and McCourt will want to do that.

The Red Sox win has now been rewritten anyway. They weren't a stats team. They were a hustle/heart time.

44 - All I can think of are nightmare scenarios. I don't know, but my first hunch is that Kim Ng is the best candidate for the job. Learning under Evans and DePo has to be a good thing, and she probably will maintain similar policies to the farm system and in regard to signing free agents. I wonder how she would evaluate players, though.

47 we'll improve if only because of progression to the mean, and because it is simply impossible that there will be as many days missed to due injury.

To top it all off the Bruins are losing

47: pt.4, dead on center.

48: Yes, what's that great Elvis Costello line?
"I used to be disgusted,
Now I try to be amused..."

UCLA is not looking good at all. This is going to be the worst day in sports for me in a long time.

UCLA's performance today up on The Farm has Jon consulting his copy of "200 Ways of Serve Crow to Your Enemies" and "The Joy of Crow". I believe the "Fanny Farmer Crow Cookbook" is also an option.

How do you pronounce Kim Ng?

54 this is completely unsurprising for anyone who's followed UCLA during the "Dark Ages" between December 1998 to present.

55 Eng

Kim is pronounced like Kim

Ng is pronounced sort of like "Ahng", but some people say "Ing" like the end of a gerund.

You can go farter back than 1998.

It's not a total sports waste for me. Texas is showing their colors. There shouldn't be any controversy this week with the BCS even if Texas comes back to win.

farther

44 There are lots of nightmare scenerios -- in fact, this year we just experienced one. There are also lots of ways to have good outcomes. My point is that, invoking the dreaded M word (Moneyball), Depo figured that if enough players play well (at expectation) at the same time and stay healthy, the likelihood for success is high.

And yes, it is possible for someone (Lasorda, for instance) to trade a Konerko for Shaw. What a bitter pill it would be for the new Dodger GM to overpay for Konerko's past success.

47 - Pt. 3. If by some miracle the Dodgers keep Choi and Choi, Drew, Penny, Lowe, maybe even Bradley all have monster seasons, I REALLY REALLY hope somebody like Gammons (no way Plaschkers would ever admit it) would give some credit to DePo and Evans for this.

Gammons absolutely would

I watched UCLA lose to USC one year at the Rose Bowl 45-42 and then got home in time to watch the end of the Cal-Stanford game which Stanford won on a last second field goal after the Cardinal had recovered an onside kick. Stanford tried one pass and it was incomplete, but Cal got called for roughing the passer.

That was not a fun day.

In the words of the We Five
Oh, I got troubles, (whoa whoa)
I got worries, (whoa whoa)
I got wounds to bind....

So, does this mean UC Davis is better than Oklahoma and UCLA?

If Cal or UCLA beat USC, you might be able to make a case for the Aggies to play in the BCS!

I saw USC lose to UCLA in 1964 after fumbling on the one and seven yard lines. Gary Beban to Kurt Altenburg, If I recall correctly. THAT was a bad day for an 8-year-old.

66 there's a lot of problems with the transitive property as applied to sports. Like the fact that you can't explain this

1. Notre Dame beats Michigan
2. Michigan beats Michigan State
3. Michigan State beats Notre Dame
4. Go to step one.

It means on that day Davis was better than Stanford. And on this day Stanford is better than UCLA. Nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe because he's old and his face is wrinkled, but suddenly Tommy Lasorda reminds me of Emperor Palpatine.

The 96 UCLA-USC game was a great one for Bruins fans, and pretty terrible for partisans of the Trojans

69 70 sarcasm detector needs upgrade.

71-
After watching that press conference you can see Lasorda's influence on McCourt and frankly I have lost almost all respect for Lasorda. Plus he has said other dumb statements relating to non sporting issues that irritated me.

73-
Did not think you were being serious but there are people who think like that.

Oh well the Silicon Valley Bowl it is for us.

75 No problem :)

One thing this day has not done is make me lose my appetite. Grilled New York steak and heirloom tomato salad coming up!

71: yes, back to baseball for a moment...

Bob/Jon: Good God Almighty, do you really see Valentine as the GM? Isn't that like hiring Larry Brown or Rick Pitino as the GM of your basketball team? Irrational, emotion-driven trades all over the place... that kind of passion can work well on the field/court, but in the front office? Even for McCourt, that seems extreme.

63 -

A couple of people mentioned on radio broadcasts today that Dodger "insiders" pointed at the Bradley incident as the beginning of the end for DePo so there's no way that Milton is back next year.

Do you remember the comment that Orel made after his interview? Something about he would be happy to come back to the Dodgers, if not as manager, then in the front office.
His position was already decided back then.

Based on McCourt's comments today he won't be the GM but he will wind up as Gillick's assistant and the new Dodger mouthpiece (mind you this is all supposition on my part).

I don't think baseball is ready for a woman GM although it may not be too far down the road. Kim Ng will not be the next Dodger GM.

Mgr - If Valentine wants the job, it's his, and he's already said he would love it.

24-3 Cardinal. This is why I love College Football. Teams that have no business being on the same field as another team can upset on sheer emotion sometimes.

Well, Steve isn't the only one out of a job

http://depodestaforpresident.blogspot.com/

I tend to agree with 49 there are many nightmere scenarios and I know little about Kim Ng as a negotiator for talent. WHile I think we will win more than 71 games next year I think there is no gurantee that we will be so much better. Remember many in our minor leagues are still 1 year away, who says others in our division won't get better.
Lasorda claims McCourt listens to him sometime and sometimes doesn't. Logic to me would be having Terry Collins take over as GM, since he knows the talent base in the organization and manager Orel. Bobby V will cost too much.

IMO, it's Tracy's job to deal with the Kent and Bradley thing. I thought his whole strong point was his ability to manage personalities?

But it doesn't surprise me that it was pinned on DePodesta too.

Further to my other post, I think Gillick will just be brought in for a couple of years to tutor Orel, who will then take over as the GM, after serving as Gillick's assistant.

I also think that McCourt will do whatever he thinks he needs to do to make sure the Dodgers have a glorious 06, and that will probably involve trading at least a few of our best prospects for quick-fix veterans.

I guess I don't know much about Valentine as a baseball manager, other than the well-publicized antics when he was managing the Mets a few years ago. Did he play poor players in favor of better ones? Make irrational strategic choices? Mangage by hunches? Tell me why I should fear him.

Someone at the press conference should have asked him if he was going to fire everyone every season we did not meet expectations.

I hope DePo finds a nice place to be GM somewhere that's not the NL West.

Why does UCLA keep doing this to me.

Curious that no one is mentioning Logan White who I would expect to be at the top of the list.

The McCourts, Lasorda, and Hershiser all had dinner together. How much more painfully obvious does it need to be?

Lasorda will be the 06 GM, and Hershiser will be the manager. The PR department will bill out 2006 as "the return of 1988". They'll be able to recycle the commercials from last year, only swapping out Mike Davis for Jackie Robinson in that "Izturis steals second" montage.

85 You can check this out: http://tinyurl.com/8tgyr

It was written in '97 when things were going good for Bobby.

90 As ridiculous as that scenario would have sounded 24 hours ago, you are right. Absolutely right. And it hurts to say so.

87 I hope that San Diego doesn't can Towers. DePo and Sandy Alderson could make a dangerous combination in the NL West for a while.

It scares me that just yesterday, Josh Byrnes was the named the GM of the D-backs. If he has enough power, gone are the days of trading for past his prime Green and letting Russ Ortiz win the mega millions.

Say what you will about Sabean and his love for old men, but he has also been a success. What if Sabean resigns in a couple of years and McGowan (with cash flow problems already because of PacBell-SBC-AT&T Park) decides he needs to go with DePo or someone of his ilk.

89 I think at this point in time, Logan White makes too much sense. He seems to have a pretty a pretty good grasp on evaluating talent. I'm not sure that means much to McCourt at this point in time.

On to other topics, it was a chickenbleep move for McCourt to allow DePo to fire Tracy and then fire DePo.

I'm very disappointed in the McCourts right now. I thought for a while that anyone but Fox would be better for the team. I'm not so sure right now.

Thank you Bud Selig and the other owners for approving the McCourts. Good job!

Hope DePo goes back to Oakland.

I just watched the McCourt press conference. He says that he fired Depo because the team did not meet his expectations. A thought flashed through my head, "Then fire yourself."

85, 91: I actually like Bobby as a manager, but what do I know? At least during his Texas/NY days, it wasn't his game management that raised red flags, it was his relations with players; that he was manipulative and self-aggrandizing, talked to the media before he talked to his players, etc.

But a lot of that came up when his teams started losing (surprise!). When he started as a manager, I remember a lot of people comparing him to Billy Martin, with a better PR face.

At the risk of psychoanalyzing this, the "groucho glasses" incident has, I think, become for him like the "YEEE-ahh" scream became for Howard Dean. It's his defining moment, what most people remember, and causes them to ask, "Can we take this person seriously?"

From an outsider's view, I just don't think his temperament is suited for the front office; thus my Larry Brown-Rick Pitino analogy. I've heard snippets that he's embraced some of the moneyball concepts as a manager, but it'd be interesting to hear him at length on that.

UCLA is amazing. I just found out that game is on TV up here in Northern California (duh!)

91 SB, an interesting choice of an article to learn about Bobby V. Sophisticated, complex, got good performance out of Hundley. Also arrogant, divisive in the clubhouse....

This was 8 years ago though. In the meantime he has gotten a team to the World Series, which must count for something.

Another tidbit from the press conference. A question was asked if the managerial search, and how it was going factored into the decision. McCourt replied that he always had the veto power during the process...that leads me to believe that none of the candidates pleased him. Then he went on to speak glowingly of Lasorda.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS

Un -- bleepin -- believable.

My condolences to Jon.

His alma mater still has one more University of California school to play also.

What a great game. Saw only the last 10 minutes.

RE: 86

Seriously.

Since communications and PR seem to be such a problem, why isn't there any heat on the Marketing Director?

Wow

Gosh, if Lasorda is a possibility as GM, maybe we can even dream of hiring Chuck LaMar.

Felt so good to watch ESPN and ESPN2 cut into both games to show UCLA winning TD and hear the commentators say whoa they are having one of those magical seasons and Drew Olson needs to be in the Heisman race.

Dorrell's been watching too many SC game films with this blow-off-the-first-half, play great after halftime stuff.

This is just huge for this season and the whole program.

103 You know who the marketing director is, correct?

95. I also just finished watching mccourts press confrence, and thought the exact same thing. He never comes up with any rational for the decision. He's beginning to remind me more and more of Bud Selig; somehow manageing to make the worst of every decision that comes his way.

Last year Norte Dame impulsively fired their football coach that backfired in their face, and somehow stumbled into Charlei Wiess, so I guess there is some hope that McCourt accidently hires a good GM.

Wow, at what point does Lasorda become a net negative for the organization. I mean, between abusing his pitchers in the late-80's/early-90's, the Konerko and Pedro trades, and now this, I think he's getting close to cancelling out the good he's done for the organization.

103: I dunno, who's the Marketing Director this week?

108, 110

Yes, I do. That was sort of the point :)

I just listened to the press conference. Does McCourt even believe what he's saying? The dude's gone crazy.

Wow, at what point does Lasorda become a net negative for the organization.

How about, oh, 1996?

i just finally got to a computer.

1. why is my favorite team so freakin dysfunctional?
2. why is frank mccourt such a media pansy? every little criticism, he panics and fires someone.
3. i will miss you depodesta, i was with you from the beginning and believed in your vision.
4. go to hell frank mccourt. you are a complete douchbag. take your slut wife with you.

Ditto 114

just heard the news... it felt like a punch in the gut.

Regarding Stanford-UCLA, that's just the way it goes. Stanford has been a first half team pretty much all season, including the UC Davis game. UCLA, you all know, has a closer.

I'm disappointed - what else is new today?

114-
Wow if I would have known we could have said that stuff on here I would have done it a long time ago.

Punch in the gut...yeah, me too. I live on the east coast, so I got up this morning and saw the story in the web L.A. Times. What made it even more surreal is that when I went to DT (about 6AM Pacific), it was offline. It felt like a coup where the new dictator has taken out all the opposition media.

114: take a breath, Nate. We share your frustration (if not your language). And read Jon's prior thread as well, when the news was first posted. I think you'll find suggested answers to #1 and #2.

I am conditionally renouncing my Dodger fandom and will be a fan of whatever team trades their 30HR .270 avg guy for Billingsly.

Hope DePo gets a job. If I were him I'd call up the BoSox and let them know I'd work for half of whatever they agree upon with Epstein haha.

114, 117 - You can't say that stuff. Don't start.

We've had more than 500 comments today and about 99.5 percent of them have been civil. Let's not lose it now.

I was completely willing to give McCourt the benefit of the doubt despite his bad image. Now I know he is a completely incompetent owner and an insanely petty fool. He doesn't deserve the Dodgers,heck, he dosen't even deserve the Mighty Ducks.

It's too bad. I had a good feeling about this off-season. I have now been reduced to dreams of Theo Epstein. Ewww.

I also hope Tommy will drop dead soon.

whoops. sorry

As crazy as this year has been, I don't think I would be all that shocked to see Tracy quit on Pittsburg and interview with the Dodgers. How are the Kings this year?

123

Yeah, he's no Russ Ortiz.

Jon,
Don't worry. Stanford has USC next week. They're like UCLA except they're like 20 times better.

118, LOL. I know what you mean. I first saw the paper @ about 3 in the morning L.A. time. I got home @ about 7am and I wanted to come and vent a little. When I saw that the site was offline I thought it was somehow McCourt's fault. Like if he knew everything that would be posted here about him and his... family.

127: oooooooooooooooooooo!

This is kinda off subject - and I know none of you are in the mood to hear the McCourts defended - but I think it's very Plascke (sp, probably) of us to insult people based on something they are that has nothing to do with the decisions that we deal with. Specifically, reminding everyone that Jamie McCourt is a woman when we're mad.

deal should = disagree in the case of post 130 - I was posting under severe duress.

If it is Theo he is after it may answer why McCourt could not give any reasons for why he fired DePo and why he changed his mind so suddenly, that or well you know the other reasons why.

130

Good point. I think Mr. or Mrs. McCourt's incompetence is something that is gender-neutral.

Jon-question for you. Do you think this major disappointment (for most people here) will change the character of DT for next season? I mean, in the sense that a significant number of this season's posters might drift away to different teams and different blogs?

the he should have had Theo signed and sealed.

That's what makes it hard to even wait to see what the McCourt's do before passing judgement. They haven't shown any semblence of being able to make a thoughtful, non-emotional decision yet, so the odds that they ease our pain with a good GM signing is very remote.

I wonder what it's like for a GM to see his own name in the "Transactions" column. Nearly all of the moves you see printed are the result of the work of the GM. "Elmer Dessens was placed on the 15-day disabled list with a subluxated scapula." [note: fictional example]

And now you look in ESPN's Baseball transactions and you see Los Angeles Dodgers - Fired general manager Paul DePodesta.

I'll probably follow the A's more closely next year, but continue to post about baseball, the A's, and the Dodgers here.

I'm pretty confident most posters here will be hard-pressed to find a better community to talk about whatever team they're following than this one.

134 - Well, for me, the character for DT starts with me (I'm still arrogant that way), and I'll still be the same guy. I don't think the character of the comments will change much. I still expect the Dodgers to win more games next year, regardless of who is GM, so that always keeps people around.

But I guess that's mainly a question for the commenters themselves.

Honestly, the firestorm was greater on DT last year when Beltre went to Seattle.

115- was it as bad as giving up 2 grand slams in one inning to Fernando Tatis?

Maybe they'll rehire Dan Evans. (jk)
Why was he fired in the first place?

134: As somebody who just joined today after lurking for awhile (and on a very special day, eh?), I'd hate to see DT become an 80%-whine board like Let'sGoKings. That board's usually interesting but it's like listening to Joe McDonnell... after awhile, it's just depressing.

138-
Who were most people blaming for Beltre leaving?

138 That's not arrogant. It does start with you and you do a wonderful job. And I also think Bob Timmermann should be named the "Honorary Mayor" of DT :)

141 That's what we were towards the end of season with Tracy, I don't see how next year will be different =)

And the Nats have blogs backed by sabre thinking, and they have Bowden and Robinson

138. Jon Weisman

Probably have more Dodger fans and less philosophy fans.

Jon is the unquestioned lord and master of DT. I am a humble vassal whom he allows to use some of his land in exchange that I acknowledge his hegemony by paying him a tribute of 3 sheep and 2 chickens each year.

142 - A lot of people were angry at DePo and/or McCourt. There were a lot of non-regulars posting that day. Some regulars were just disappointed. A few were mad at Beltre, and some were quite happy the Dodgers didn't give Beltre big dollars.

131 Jamie McCourt's gender is not a problem for me. It's her ego that concerns me. My contention (stated elsewhere) is that part of this rift was Jamie McCourt wanting to do DePodesta's job--which is the glamour job in any baseball front office, let's face it. She thinks she's smart enough to do it, and she probably resented that he was doing all the important stuff, hiring managers, drafting, trading, signing free agents. She thought she could do it better.

I don't know what that means for the future. But I wouldn't rule out Jamie becoming GM, with Kim Ng as her assistant. Valentine seems to be cut out only for the job of manager. Hershiser might take over for Terry Collins who probably won't stick around.

Remember: "The McCourts are the brand." Jamie McCourt as GM gets that done in a hurry.

Frank McCourt realizes, I'm sure, that he can't put his wife in the GM job unless he clears it with Selig. And that might be a big chunk for Bud to swallow. In that event, Ng becomes GM, but Jamie becomes a very actively involved president.

I am not suggesting this would necessarily be bad. For all we know, Jamie is as saber-savvy as DePodesta was. Certainly it's reasonable to assume Ng was on board. If it's about ego and personality rather than philosophy, the net result might be a wash.

147 Don't forget perfidious Boras.

Bob certainly is my right-hand man and farm-animal provider, but I feel a very wide support system around me.

149 - You're right. Boras caught a lot of blame, too.

148 - There is no way Jamie becomes GM. Not only is it untenable, she would be demoting herself.

Well I picked the wrong day to play golf. Try spending 5 hours alone with your thoughts after reading today's paper.

Back to Dodger baseball circa 1999. Sitting around waiting till the front office learns about innovative ideas like OBP, dumping overpaid veterans and finding cheap players with upside.

I know we need to wait and see, but the Old Boys are back in charge, folks. The DePodesta era was just a 2 year tease. Pray DePo finds employment outside the NL West.

109 Just as many on this site ascribe all eveil to Plaschke, I think we are seeing a trend in ascribing everything bad in today's Dodger news to Lasorda.
Although Lasorda is credited with being concerned about Pedro Martinez'arm strength and ability to stay healthy, Clair traded Martinez, as far as the Shaw Konerko move, probably not the best move, but it can be defended considering where the Dodgers where at the time and the fact that Karos was still productive..In my opinion at the end of the day what is dysfunctional right now is the Dodger ownership. Whether you were pro or anti DePodesta, it was McCourt who hired him and he could have easily kept Evans for another year and then made a decision..Jerry Cranschiek (sp) is being interviewed on ESPN radio and he points out that the dysfunctionality on the Dodgers should be put at one person's desk Frank McCourt, and sadly he may luck into a good decision on a GM or manager, but how many firings we will see before that maybe the newest game in LA.

After reading the Dodgers Board I know hate Dodger tradition hahaha. Oh we should hire this guy because of Doger tradition, he as blue in his veins, I do not care if Lasorda is terrible at making decisions at least he does it because he loves the blue, blah blah we need to hire every possible former Dodger whether they have any skill or not blah blah blah. Firing people left and right is not the "Dodger Way". You know sometimes tradition needs to be ended. Have to move on from the past sometimes.

Fortunately for me and unfortunately for the them owners, I still and will continue to separate the Dodgers from the McCourts. Depending on who becomes GM, I may not be able to stomach going to any games or in any way giving the McCourts my money. I'll still be posting here though. I've made too much of an emotional investment to the Dodgers to invest now. Hopefully McCourt will gain some sanity or (better yet) leave someday soon. But I'm a Dodger fan through and through.

141 Don't worry, this board is 100% "Garon should retire" thread-free.

154-
Should have read that before I submitted it.

151 Well, technically Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. report to a boss, too. But they have the most fun job. Jamie wants to drive--or so my theory goes. Jamie wants to go toe to toe with Boras, rob Jim Bowden blind, engineer the big trade for Manny, sign Damon to his next big contract. She'd crack a major glass ceiling, and show the world the girls can be as tough as the boys.

But--it's untenable. So what will happen is the hiring of a GM who will be compliant in letting Jamie wear those boots whenever she wants.

The nightmare scenario for me is our new GM gutting the farm system and paying overpriced free agents top dollar while the Giants add DePodesta, making our 3 biggest NL West threats (giants, snakes, pads) all "sabermetric", leaving us in the dust.

Henson is reporting that Gillick is the top choice for GM, and Valentine is probably the top choice for manager. Hunsicker was the other GM mentioned

How is Gillick with prospects? That's my biggest concern. You can trade some of the lesser ones for needed parts, but we need to keep the core of them together to be future Dodgers

159 Sounds like a scary hybrid of Tommy Lasorda and Kevin Malone.

How is Gillick with prospects?

Early in his career with Toronto, Gillick was ridiculed (by some) as "Stand Pat" Gillick because he wouldn't trade prospects for vets at the mid-season deadline. He did change this approach later.

159-
that would be our just desserts.

Are UCLA and USC winning with chemistry or talent, by the way?

Isn't Pat Gillick known as "stand Pat" Gillick for his inability to make big trades midseason to push his teams over the top? Maybe that means he never trades prospects... As long as the new GM doesn't trade away our top prospects... Oh I don't know what I can reasonably expect anymore.

I'm also a Dodger fan through and through (since 1962-my how the years have flown by)
This move really is depressing because as I commented recently,its back to square one,a new philosophy,new personalities,a new dysfunctional clubhouse to try to jell into a team.If you want to get why the Chisox won,its apparent these guys liked each other.How do you get from chaos and confusion to a team when spring training is 5 months away.
McCourt is way out of his league.While we're demolishing the team why doesn't Frank sell out and buy the Macon Whoopee or something more his speed.
If Lasorda is the genius dictating these moves its grim.He has always impressed me as a shameless self-promoter who misuses young players,talks a better game than actually managing one.He got lucky twice and won,but he and baseball genius are not synomynous.Give me my Dodgers back.

UCLA - Chemistry
USC - Talent

also known as

UCLA - Talent with luck
USC - Lots of talent with less luck

I think this is the definition of "concerned but powerless."

Plaschke's story is up. Headline: Has McCourt Finally Gotten It Right?

165: yes, welcome to Hour 6 of the "we-don't-know-who's-in-charge-but-it-obviously-ain't-the-GM" era...

Sorry I missed the fun... what a comeback by UCLA to beat Stanford. I turned on the TV and they were down by 21 points in the 4th quarter, so I just turned it off ass-u-ming they lost. I was stunned to go online and find out they came back and won. I'm sure Jon isn't too happy with the result, but it sure is nice having both USC and UCLA one more step closer to a magical showdown. vr, Xei

Whoops that's synonymous or something.What I meant is Lasorda's a dope.

169 Hmm. Plaschke's story or bed? Night, all.

165 This move is not about sabermetrics, nor is it about how the Dodgers will approach their blue chip prospects. It's about the personalities. Last night and today are more soap opera than philosophical debate.

Plaschke owes DePo a retraction for blaming him for not showing up to the Infamous 5-Hour Dinner.

169 - Please... my only plan for staying sane is avoiding all forms of baseball-related MSM for oh... the rest of my life.

159 Agreed.

I'm a mostly lurker, who just has to vent today. Most of what I'll say has probably been said already here (and with much more style), but being out here on the east coast (just 10 miles from "the worldwide leader in sports") DT is pretty much my only forum.

The biggest problem I have is that McCourt has now become just like "The Boss" (and I'm not talking about the "good" one from Jersey). Except no money, little to no experience....and, oh yeah, no championships.

It'll be interesting to see if the media calls McCourt out for "backing" Depo a mere 3 weeks ago and letting Tracy go. Not that I was a Tracy backer, and increasingly this summer wanted him out, but he only gave Depo one freakin' off season. What the heck is that?

The ONLY thing that will make this acceptable is if McCourt hires Theo. I'll take a like minded GM who's already won a championship instead of Depo (even though I really liked him, and his philosophies).

Think Blue takes on a whole new meaning today.

The Times really likes Gillick, Plaschke assumes he'll be the new GM. If Gillick will make Plaschke same, and not trade prospects, I could handle him.

I broke my Plaschke boycott. That was a mistake.

174 - I understand that. With DePo, I could trust (to some extent) that he was NEVER sacrificing the long term for the short gain. Now that bright future I've been dreaming of is starting to get a little hazy.

This whole development boggles the mind. The implication from some of the comments is that DePodesta lacks leadership skills. But McCourt's increasing reliance on Lasorda shows an incredible lack of judgement and a turn from the promise of a progressive and innovative organization, to one rooted in obsolete ideas and the cronyism that is so pervasive in some baseball organizations.

DePodesta will land somewhere else where a smarter management team will give him a stronger charter.

I think the McCourts look at this as a no lose situation.

They could have either kept getting heat from the media by sticking to the plan that was developed by their GM, a man who is ridiculed by the local press and who the McCourts themselves probably are not too fond of or

They could could listen to Iago Lasorda and wallow in the successes of the 70s and 1988 by bringing in "Dodger Family" guys who are favorites of the local media and who will be allowed to find their way while taking credit for everything good and blaming everything bad on the stats geek who ran the team for a few years.

DePo was the classic scapegoat.

How did DePo gut the bullpen? Other than dealing Mota, he didn't do much to gut it. He traded Martin and let Shuey go (who then retired). Alvarez was injured, and Brazoban and Sanchez were healthy (one exceded expectations, the other failed)

My nightmare Dodger lineup:

CF- Repko
SS- Robles
RF- Drew- (11mils)
1b- Konerko (13mils)
2b- Kent (8mils)
LF- Jacque Jones (7mils)
3b- Joe Randa (5mils)
C- Navarro

Meanwhile Choi, Bradley, and APerez have great 2006's while making pennies.

The Dodgers, another 90-100mils flop.

I hope whomever the GM is resigns Choi, and makes a play for a legit LF'er, not Jacque Jones.

Like him or hate him, at least with DePo you knew he wasnt going to give out big contracts to players with little talent, or whom were on the downswing.

Jacque Jones I detest.
Jason Repko I detest
Paul Konerko I'm afraid of. (Cellular BP effects)
Jeff Weaver I detest.

I hope these players are not wearing Dodger Blue next year.

I just watched the press conference. The right questions were asked. McCourt did a great impression of Dana Carvey doing Bush Sr. Staaay the course- build the foundation... stay the course.

Does anyone think a .500 finish would have saved DePo? Hard to imagine you derail a 5-year plan over 10 lousy games with a depleted roster.

This must be the most support ever offered to a GM after a 71-91 win season in which he built the team in his image after gutting a team that won a Division the previous year. Very interesting to say the least.

185 - Considering that a .500 finish might have meant the playoffs, yes.

How can you talking about staying the course and sticking to a plan while you are in the process of firing your General Manager?

186 - I feel the same way about DePo that I felt about Choi for much of the season. Neither got their chance to show what they're truly capable of. 2 seasons and 1 offseason is not enough time to get the team you really want out on the field. At least with Choi, when I heard of Tracy's firing, I busted out the champagne because I (thought I) knew that Choi was gonna get his big chance in 2006. But with DePo no longer in the driver's seat, I strongly doubt Choi will be in a Dodger uniform next year.

I am not a Depodesta fan, but would have loved to have been proven wrong. The organization underwent such a monumental shift in it's thinking and analysis of players over the last couple years, that I just don't see the point in cutting the whole thing short. How the heck are we ever gonna know now? After all the crud we've been through, and now, the end. Sorry folks, the movies over, in the middle. It all goes back to McCourt. They just have no business owning a baseball team. Oh, and my .02 is I want Evans back.

I hope Choi goes to the Red Sox so I can watch him every day. He's gotta be better than Kevin Millar.

The L.A. Times has liked Gillick since 1987. It's been a very long romance.

Gillick is 68 years old for those care, but he did go to USC. So he will get Rod Dedeaux's seal of approval.

186. If DePo's team had been on the field in 2005, and had went 71-91, I think most would feel differently. But I dont think Repko, Edwards, Phillips were part of that magic plan. I also dont think losing Gagne for the whole year was counted on either.

186. Who do you want back from the gutting?

186 - No snide or harsh tone here. Just wondering your opinion. Which of the following would you have kept from the division winner?

Finley, Cora, Hernandez, Beltre, Nomo, Lima, Green, Ishii, Ross, Ventura (retiring), Mayne, Venafro?

That's the list of guys DePodesta gutted.

186

I don't think it's as much support for DePodesta as dismay at McCourt's seeming incompetence and inability to stick to one plan.

Should I call up the ticket office person and return their call and talk to them in my measured and bemused tone of indignation. It will likely go over their head.

Regrets
I had a few
but then again
too few to mention

186/Molokai:
As I ask my students, can you expand on that? Did the freak success of 2004 mean that DePo's tear-down had to win this year, or else?

NBA teams are usually better examples of this; if you're gonna tear down a team that won last year, somebody's inevitably gonna get fired... even if the teardown, for the long-term success of the team, had to be done.

When do they need to pick up Dessens option? Smith and Ng could have to make that decision, not sure if that's good or not

195 DePo didn't gut Venafro. He's still here (or in Vegas more precisely)

My only hope is that the McCourts endorsed the message DePo was sending, but felt like they had to replace the messenger so the masses would feel more comfortable with said message.

I just have visions of 1999-03.

Repko will play the role of Roberts.
Jacque Jones will play the role of Brian Jordan/Devon White.
Robles will play the Izturis/Cora role.
Randa will play the Fred McGriff role.

Yuck.

I think, with time, Jason Repko can turn into McKay Christensen.

201 Except we won't have to make a sign for Randa

200 - I know. But for all I know, people care that he was kept off the roster. After all, Plaschke said DePo gutted our bullpen.

202. I was thinking more along the lines too of Repko playing the Chad Hermanson (circa 2003) role as well.

Repko makes Dave Roberts look like Mickey Mantle.

And for sure, this happens: Season ticket sales show a net increase, with more people happy than sad that DePodesta is gone.

You may be right, but McCourt has made it easy for me to justify dropping the 5 or 6 Dodger games I attend each year and instead get my live baseball fix in Anaheim. I'll still watch the Dodgers on TV and follow Suns games on the net, but I'll shift my spending closer to home (I moved to Mission Viejo a couple years ago), even though I'm not really an Angels fan.

Did you guys see that the new Atlanta pitching coach is ... Roger McDowell?!

from Henson:
"McCourt had long been perplexed by DePodesta's reclusive nature and a strategic communications firm hired by the Dodgers in spring training was frustrated by DePodesta's seeming indifference to public relations.

When fat-cat PR people stick their noses into baseball personnel decisions, then flush the future, my friends. Fortunately this particular strategic communications firm is no longer on the payroll, but if that was a factor--OMG!

Strategic communications person: "Paul, you can't sign Kent. Where's that leave Alex Cora?"

Paul: "Uh, a free agent. Playing somewhere else as a backup."

SCP: "But Paul, don't you remember that great at-bat? When he hit the homer? You can't trade him! He's part of our heart and soul!

"Another thing. This team doesn't have enough stars. America seemed to fall in love with that guy AJ. What'll it take to get him?

"Hey Paul. We've been looking at the team. You're over your quota of Dominicans, and you need another Mexican."

"Who do you mean?"

"That's your department. I'm just telling you, the mayor called, and he thinks LA needs to have a team that 'looks like Los Angeles.' Oh, and one more thing."

"Yeah?"

"LoDuca and Piazza. We gotta get them both back. Here. I wrote up a strategic communications plan."

"What?? You want me to trade Guzman, LaRoche and Billingsley? For an old catcher? And then get another old catcher?"

"Nobody's heard of Guzman, LaRoche and Billingsley. Anyway, it's a Dominican and two white guys. We're over our quotas as it is. But you bring back Piazza and LoDuca, they can spell each other. It's called job-sharing. Come on man, don't you realize what incredibly valuable advice I'm giving you?"

"Get out of my office."

"Frank! Jamie!"

If there's one thing I've learned from this season- trying to use 8 injuries as an excuse is no more convincing than 1 injury. If McCourt/Lasorda can't figure out the difference between the April/May team and the June-Sept team then they're beyond saving.

And McCourt preaching today about what it means to be a "real Dodger" is downright offensive.

"To fill shoes once worn by Branch Rickey and Al Campanis, should McCourt really have hired a 31-year-old who had never been to Dodger Stadium? Who had never met Tom Lasorda? "

Thanks for that keen insight. Is having sampled the stadium chocolate malts a prerequisite to building the 25-man roster.

Valentine might not be available to come over stateside for a few more weeks. The Chiba Lotte Marines are scheduled to play in an Asian club playoff called the Konami Cup. It matches up a team from Japan (Chiba), Korea (Samsung Lions), a team from Taiwan (not yet determined) and the Chinese National Team.

Jim Lefebvre manages the Chinese team.

208. McDowell appeared in one of my all-time favorite Seinfeld episodes...

"He's a GUY, Jerry...."

You guys don't like Jason Repko? Why, I heard no less than Charlie Steiner and Rick Monday say that Jason Repko had the potential to....

(loud thudding sounds as entire DT board pummels poster into unconsciousness)

Branch Rickey's first year as manager (and what was considered GM at the time) came when he was 31. He took over the St. Louis Browns toward the end of the 1913 season.

Just sayin'.

213 -- For bringing up Rick Monday, if nothing else

If Jason Repko tries really hard, he can become John Hale or possibly Chad Hermansen.

Its-Its are superior to the chocolate malts anyway. And they also come from Northern California.

Ah, John Hale. A finalist in the MOBMD competition.

208, 212. "But why McDowell?"

I saw the Black Mike Ramsey play. I saw him leadoff. And Jason Repko, you could become a Black Mike Ramsey.

(Except Repko hits home runs.)

I can't see Gillick or any other established GM being interested in the Dodger job unless LaSorda is muzzled. I am not saying this as a Dodger fan (though I have been one for a long time) but actually it would be better for Tommy to be the GM than for him to be in the background stabbing whoever has the job in the back. If he is GM he won't be able to hide being accountable for what takes place on his watch.

In my earlier post on this thread I mentioned a prediction of LaSorda as GM and Valentine as manager. If that takes place I will still be a Dodger fan, but it will be as a fan of the 60s Dodgers of Sandy and Maury and Jim Gilliam; the 70s team of Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey; the 2004 team of Beltre, Izturis, and Cora. I have plenty of Vin Scully tapes, so I should be in good shape.

Will I be a Dodger Thoughts reader? Sure. I will be wanting Jon and Bob Timmermann to do more historical posts rather than wanting to know what is happening in McCourt's Los Angeles zoo, but I will be here.

Stan from Tacoma

209 That means there's hope for another sabre GM, just one who isn't so reclusive. Now that Byrnes is gone, are there any sabre GM candidates? Or I guess we could just go with Gillick to be safe. But I'd rather see Plaschke's reaction to a more communicative DePo

Logging in and reading Jon's latest blog thread title, I thought it was kind of wierd that he was talking about the Post-Depodesta Era. So I decided to go to the Dodgers Yahoo home pag, and low and behold it said DePodesta was fired. The first thing I did was look at the calender. Was it April? It had to be! But no, the calender read October. Was it some Halloween joke? Did the McCourts knock on Paul's door and not get a candy bar? What kind of trick is this? I am shocked! I don't know what to think. I want to be pissed off, but somehow after all the crap we went through with Jim Tracy this is a fitting end. Will I stop being a Dodger fan? Probably not, Paul wouldn't want it that way, so I will continue to root on the Dodgers but it will take some time to get over the grieving process. I haven't even hit "denial" yet, but that phase will be here shortly. As far as I am concerned the McCourts are the worst LA owners, and that includes the current Rams owner.

What a terrible weekend!!!!!!!! ws, Xei

Won't Gillick want, like, money?

65

Bob, I was at that Cal-Stanford game, cheering on Stanford in the end zone seats. I kept telling my friends we would win, and they thought I was crazy. Fantastic finish, probably the best football game I ever attended. One of my favorite sports days ever, right up there with attending game five of the '88 World Series.

Tonight ... eh ... you can have that one. :-) I hope that at least USC and UCLA are both undefeated when they play.

221 Yeah, you're right. Instead of Tommy acting like Nakasone of the LDP, pulling strings from behind the scenes, I'd rather have his incompetence in the light of the day. Then people can see him for what he is. A self-aggrandizing fool.

The thing that upsets me about baseball is that justice usually is not swift. In a sport like football, that is a bit less luck dependent, incompetence is exposed immediately. Unfortunately, in baseball, it is an accumulation of data that finally reveal incompetence.

By the way, as a long-suffering Stanford fan, as soon as UCLA scored their first touchdown in the fourth quarter, I knew the game was over.

As a longtime Dodger fan in NYC, here are my thoughts (for what they are worth)

1-Having watched Bobby V during his entire six-year tenure with the Mets, I can say that he is a very good manager, and I would have no problem with him. I was a Tracy fan, but Valentine is a better manager, and despite his reputation, Valentine lasted seven years in Texas, and six with the Mets, which I think says something about his staying power.
2-Has anyone considered Mike Scoscia as manager? Didn't the Angels give him permission to speak to the Dodgers?
3-While I didn't agree with every decision, I was a fan of Dan Evans, and didn't think he should have been fired, especially so late in spring training.
4-As far as DePodesta, while I rooted for him, and agree that he should have been given more of a chance (as Evans should have), I don't think he is any great loss. Most of his moves haven't worked out, even if the players he got rid of--Beltre, Finley, etc--didn't do much elsewhere. The Dodgers would have been a better team this year with Beltre at third, and Green at first (Do not understand the fascination with Choi--if he plays everyday, he hits .260, 25/75-80/100 K's/75 Walks--not irreplaceable numbers.

The problem with DePodesta was not what he got rid of, it is that he didn't adequately replace anyone, except at second with Kent. Basically, this team went into the season with no starting 3B, no starting catcher, a suspect 1B, an unproven LF (Werth), a potential explosion in CF (Bradley), and an injury-plagued RF (Drew). Is it really a surprise that the Dodgers had production problems in LF, 3B and C? Plus, the LoDuca trade was not a good one--trading a proven set-up guy (Mota) and hoping some rookie (Brazoban) could replace him? It worked out, but blew up in their faces this year. Plus, leaving the team with no catcher was absurd.

As far as the vaunted Dodger farm system, let me know when ONE of their prospects makes any kind of contribution, How's Edwin Jackson working out so far?

Ummmm...they are definitely replaceable numbers...in fact, they are Shawn Green's numbers.

221, 226: Agreed, if McCourt does nothing else right (why am I bothering to type this?), he needs to clarify Lasorda's role. Otherwise we've got one more page out of the Steinbrenner book; a college of 'advisors' secondguessing the GM.

Is it uncool to call McCourt the "Baseball Nazi"? :) vr, Xei

228. Boo!!!

195
None based on the asking price for some, talent level for others. Wasn't complaining about the gutting of the 2005 team, just commenting on how interesting I found the support for him. I've always commented that he should have gone further and gotten something for Gagne/Izzy while the getting was good. I expect that if Depo had to do it over again he also would have done what his instincts told him to do. Course then I think of Scott Erickson and feel that I don't know Depodesta at all.

I am surprised at how nonchalant everyone is with the communication problems that have long been reported. That is not a minor problem that can just be swept under the rug.

The world is not going end if Pat Gillick becomes GM. My 1st choice would be to bring back Dan Evans but since Evans was the one who put Lasorda out to pasture and if it is true that Lasorda is back in the catbirds seat then that scenario looks bleak. My 2nd choice would be Logan White. Gillick is not even on my list but he does have 2 World Championships on his belt so I'm not sure how he got the nickname of "Stand Pat" when he must have done something right in building those powerhouse Toronto teams.

So what you're saying is that if Choi played every day, he'd have put up the same numbers as Green did for Arizona, but Choi's numbers are not irreplaceable and the team would have been better with Green, for like 50 times the price?

231

No GM for you!

Next! Next!

Doh, Steve beat me to it.

233 - I think we all just blamed McCourt for the communication problems

Acceptance seems to be setting in, at least for those who've been chatting much of the day. The Internet's good for something I guess.

228 Well Dan Evans was the one who allegedly turned down Adam Dunn for Edwin Jackson straight up.

>>> Most of his moves haven't worked out... he didn't adequately replace anyone, except at second with Kent

This is not fair at all. Choi/Saenz outperformed Green at 1b and freed up $5M to buy pitching. He replaced Nomo/Ishii/Lima with Lowe/Penny/Houlton. Navarro/Phillips adequately replaced LoDuca IMO. And Beltre for Drew would have been a landslide if Drew made it to August 1st.

If Gillick were the GM, he could bring in Cito Gaston as the manager and a lot of people would love him because his style of managing was pretty much to just fill out the lineup card and sit around until the game was over.

And he won the World Series twice!

The only thing I can add at this point ... I am pretty much dis-invested from the Dodgers emotionally as of now. I will still follow them, and if they win I will be happy ... but I will not be too upset if they continue to lose because I have disliked the management of the team for too many years in a row.

240-
I do not blame him with those teams. Toronto was stacked.

Heck, Antonio Perez for Beltre might have been close if Perez had been allowed to play until August 1st.

From Allbaseball.com a little snippet on ole Stand Pat Gillick

After winning a College World Series title with USC in 1958, Gillick signed on as a lefty starter in the Orioles' Minor League system. An arm injury curtailed his playing career in 1963, so the newly unemployed 26-year old was immediately hired by the new Colt .45's expansion team (soon to be re-named the Astros) as a scout and scouting director. He moved on to the Yankees' player development and scouting departments in 1974-76, then joined the expansion Toronto Blue Jays, where he was quickly promoted from Vice President of Player Personnel to General Manager. Gillick retired from the Jays following the strike-shortened '94 campaign, but returned to serve as Baltimore's General Manager for the 1996, 1997, and 1998 seasons. Yet another brief retirement came along before Gillick finished off his career as Mariners GM from 2000 through 2003.

Any kind of glance back on Pat Gillick's career as a team builder reveals on greatness, and on multiple levels.

You want a talent evaluator? This is the guy who drafted future stars like Dave Steib, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield, and Jimmy Key. The guy who once stole a future MVP, George Bell, through the same Rule 5 draft that also produced solid Blue Jays contributors like Willie Upshaw and Kelly Gruber.

Some might say a Hall of Fame GM should be a superlative trader, too. Well, look no further.

Pat Gillick once traded for a young prospect named Fred McGriff and built a two-time World Champion with the 1992-93 Blue Jays by trading for stars like Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, David Cone, and Rickey Henderson. His best set of trades may have come in his last posting, in Seattle, where found a way to replace expensive superstars like Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, Jr. and Alex Rodriguez with a well-designed collection of complimentary players including Mike Cameron, Aaron Sele, Bret Boone, and Jeff Nelson.

Of course, none of those decisions amount to much without results, and Gillick has collected those plenty of those, too. He needed six full years to build a winner with the expansion franchise and once he turned the corner he never did look back- Gillick's teams enjoyed winning seasons in every one of the eleven full seasons before his departure from the Toronto, then enjoyed another two winning seasons in Baltimore, and another four straight winners in Seattle. In all, Gillick crafted winning teams in 16 of his last 17 full seasons, nine of which made it into October. One of those teams, the 2001 Mariners, earned 116 team wins and Gillick's recognition as Executive of the Year.

How valuable was Pat Gillick over the course of his career? In the nine combined years prior to his three retirements, the exec's teams averaged 94 wins per year and made seven total playoff appearances. After he left, however, those same ball clubs fell off a cliff by averaging 61 wins and came up with exactly . . . zero playoff appearances. Basically, he made all the difference between his ball clubs' finish at the very top or the very bottom of their divisions.

Among all free agency-era GM's, only John Schuerholz has been Pat Gillick's equal in terms of consistent winning and titles, and even Schuerholz has to come along with a tiny asterisk. After all, the Braves' master architect has worked with bigger budgets during most of his career.

To put Gillick's achievements in their fullest context, however, it's important to remember what they've meant to the course of baseball history. He's contributed to playoff teams with three separate franchises, displaying the kind of team-building versatility matched only by the immortal Rickey's work with the Cardinals, Dodgers, and Pirates. Gillick's two World Series winners, the 1992 and 1993 Blue Jays, were the most popular teams in Major League history in terms of attendance. The capper to his international career may have been the signing of Ichiro Suzuki for the Mariners, the one single move that's done the most to open up Japan's vast talent pool and audiences to Major League Baseball in the new millennium.

We have to bunt, and not hit home runs, and only get guys who can play defense because it is the "Dodger Way." I really wish I got to see DePo implement his plan with a manager on his page.

237 -- I, for one, think that it is unreasonable to build a vacuum around Paul DePodesta, exculpate him for blame for the insane state of the front office, and believe that he is a martyr. There are problems in the Dodger front office. And DePodesta, regardless of whether this was a good decision or not (you all know I don't think so), must take his share of the blame for them.

If there is no one out there to explain it, you must explain it yourself. You must explain why LoDuca was no loss. You must explain how "proven" set-up men often have just one or two good years before they fall apart again. You must explain why Alex Cora is as useless as ____ on a ____. I often felt like I knew what those people complaining in the Dodger organization were talking about, because I never felt like DePodesta was really communicating with us either.

Oh yeah, and Mota sucked this year. Remember when "he could close for any other major league team"?

DePo's only mistake with Mota was not calling Ed Wade and getting Chase Utley.

246
You make a good point Steve but to be honest that is what I liked most about Depodesta. Always taking the high road and never talking down the players he let go to justify his moves. He was very classy in that way. It may have ultimately cost him his job but at least he did it on his terms. I do hope he gets another chance but I doubt it will happen.

171- I don't see why you have to bring 'ming' in to this. . .

Unrelated: DT is great because of Jon, the high-end regulars, and the no swearing policy. In that order. That said, there really ought to be a Bob Timmermann Appreciation Day, where everyone's screenname grows a superfluous last last consonant.

244: wow, I suddenly feel this need to genuflect!

246 Yeah, like I said in a post a couple of hundred back, DePodesta's biggest failing, in my opinion, was not taking charge of the Jim Tracy problem. That issue was allowed to fester all season. This may be hindsight, but as soon as Tracy got all weird, after Choi's 6 homer weekend, benching the guy for some inexplicable reason, I would have had a good long chat with Tracy, and made it clear that I'm not going to tolerate insubordination. I hope Depo learned something from that experience.

246 - I was kidding just then, still annoyed at McCourt (as I'm sure you're aware). To be clear, this is my position about that. I'm not entirely sure of the state of the front office, but I'm certain DePodesta was at least partly to blame for the communication issues. I found it annoying that in interviews, it always felt like he was hiding something. Of course it's possible much of that is the interviewers fault, but you're right. DePo probably didn't do enough to try to get the general public on his side. Personally (I imagine many DTers feel this way) I felt I had a general idea of his plan, so I didn't feel it to be THAT necessary that DePo spell everything out. Of course because of the position of MSM, that may not have worked with the average fan.

Perhaps DePodesta's fatal error was that he expected to be on the job long enough to win the public over through the team's successes rather than through his words (which could realistically have been as soon as 2006).

240
I remember putting Gaston on my hit list when he wouldn't use Mussina in an all-star game that was being played in Baltimore so Mussina just started to warm up on his own which further ticked off Gaston.

Now that Depo is gone the Dodgers can concentrate on their next Darren Driefort. Perhaps we can sign Jeff Weaver to a 6 year contract! :) vr, Xei

I do recall DePodesta explaining the mid-04 trades til the cows came home; likewise the Arizona-New York roundelay. Maybe he didn't persuade everyone, but it wasn't from lack of trying.

But it's not typical for any GM to trash players they trade. What kind jerk would've gone public with: "LoDuca's over the hill." For many years, GMs have used anodyne language to explain why popular players went bye-bye. They wouldn't survive otherwise.

This is nothing new. It comes down to Branch Rickey's, "Better to get rid of a player a year too early than a year too late." Fans never want to hear that when it impacts a player they've grown to love.

I hate to be swayed so easily, but 244 made me feel a little better with Gillick. Still a lot of others I'd prefer, but it seems we could do far worse. As long as we avoid Bowden...

239. As I said, I think Evans made some mistakes--not trading Jackson or Greg Miller was one of them.

And yes, I think Shawn Green is a better player than Choi. And, they didn't replace LoDuca until August of this year. And, let's see how well Navaro plays from the start of the season, not the last few months of a lost season.

As far as $, trading Shawn Green and payinf $10 million of his salary for Navaro was ridiculous. The Dodgers could have kept Green, played him in right field, and still played Choi at first.

And, as much as i hope Navaro turns out to be a stud, what does it say about the Dodger farm system that they went to such lengths to get Navaro with a supposed great prospect like Russell Martin in the wings? Maybe Martin is not as good as they are saying?

Perhaps DePodesta's fatal error was that he expected to be on the job long enough to win the public over through the team's successes rather than through his words (which could realistically have been as soon as 2006).

You've hit it right on the nose, fanerman.

253 "Perhaps DePodesta's fatal error was that he expected to be on the job long enough to win the public over through the team's successes rather than through his words (which could realistically have been as soon as 2006)."

I respectfully disagree. Winning over the public with PR is quickest way to losing focus on winning. Winning cures many ills. A good GM should not worry at all about PR and just do what it takes to win. Let the PR office work on the image.

That could be the new DT mantra
"as long as we avoid Bowden"

As everyone knows, I'm simply not that polite.

I am of really, really mixed feelings about all of this. I was really, really unsettled (everyone knows this too) about DePodesta in 2005, and a small part of me says -- I'm grateful for taking the bullet for getting rid of 2004's overachievers, for making FJT more than just a slogan, for not having a Guzman panic sale at the end of July, for Jeff Kent, and probably for a lot of other things I can't think of right now, but at the end of the day, the problems the Dodgers were obviously having -- within the organization (the death spasms of July, for instance) and without -- those problems just don't occur in a vacuum. Something is wrong, even when you are on the right track, when you don't even have enough power in your organization to move Mike Edwards off of third base. That was an embarrassment to the franchise, and it should have (and did, in my mind) raise serious questions about DePodesta's ability to even get the easiest tasks done.

Again, promoting Kim Ng and naming Hershiser manager is the way to go here. Nobody has posted a Why I Should Hate Bobby Valentine Primer, so until they do, I actually withhold judgment. To have been shut out of baseball, he must have been doing something right.

260 Wait so his fatal error wasn't "never having been to Dodger Stadium or having met Tommy Lasorda?"

Just typing those words make me feel really stupid that I walk out to the curb every morning to pick up the LA Times.

Paul DePodesta also made the fatal mistake of never visiting Howard Fox's kitchen.

On a related subject, I don't understand this optimism for the (near) future. There is still no pitching staff.

We assume McCourt would have allowed Depo to fire Tracy in the middle of the season had Depo wanted to. After today, that's a bold assumption. I think it was McCourt's plan to allow Depo to fire Tracy after the season, lessening the PR hit. Depo must have known this and had to bite his tongue through this season's Tracy oddities.

262
Don't understand the infatuation with Kim Ng. All we know of her is that supposedly she knows the waiver wire rules inside and out and makes a killer arbitration presentation on behalf of management. We don't know if she has the skill to decide which scout is blowing smoke up her skirt(never thought i'd get to use that line) and which one should be listened to. We don't know which numbers she would rely on. We don't know anything about her baseball acumen.

Also Steve, optomism on Pat Gillick seems misplaced. Why would McCourt hire a GM that is known for standing pat and NOT making farm-destructive mid-season trades? He already had that.

whoa, optimism even.

265 If 3.25 Odalis shows up again our front 3 is the best in the division. And we've all been salivating over the 2006 bullpen.

Well, I've had a chance to step away for awhile, and have come to some sort of dismal acceptance. We'll see who the new hires are. No doubt, if it's Hershiser and/or Ng, I'll remain very interested, as I think they're quality people and smart enough to potentially be good.

I'll also try to get over my general and irrational hatred of Valentine. But really, I have my doubts that the GM and manager-to-be will be savvy enough to turn things around, and even if they are, that they will be given enough support by the McCourts.

I think it'd be hilarious if Depo got hired in some capacity by the Padres. I think it'd be cool if he got the GM job at the Devil Rays and turned them around. We'll see.

269 It's okay. Optomism is seeing the world through prescription rose-colored glasses.

What urkes me the most about this situation is the way McCourt has handled it. You don't hire a rookie GM and expect him to be flawless, expectations that are unattainable in the sports world with so many uncertainties in regrads to a players health etc. McCourt has come in and pretty much revamped the front office in a manner that would be acceptable, except for the fact that it's never ending. Each offseason I like to think about how the team can improve, but recently, the front office and management staff is in peril to the point where McCourt has single handedly compounded his problems. You can't build a house on a weak foundation and expect it to hold up, and the same rings true for the Dodgers. The support displayed by the McCourt regime has left a bitter taste in my mouth. As bad as I felt for Evans, I feel worse for Depo, and even worse yet for the direction our club is going in. Stability in the front office allows key personnal to be productive and this will never happen until there is a certain amount of trust and tenure in these key positions. Ridding the club of Depo makes me ill, but a year from now, we'll probably be talking about the same issues with different names, certainly no way to build a winner. In 2 years, McCourt has or will have gone through 2 managers, 3 GMs, and a complete front office personnel change...no way to build a winner.

273
Maybe he lives by my mantra "patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen."

271 The size of DePo's contract probably prevents either of those teams from persuading him to give up a bigger paycheck for doing nothing to accept a smaller one for working.

He could wind up in Boston, New York (either team), Chicago, Houston, as an assistant GM. Those are teams that could use him and might pay him what it would take.

262 -- The infatuation is based in our lack of knowledge. I know Jim Bowden's "baseball acumen."

And to dream of Theo Epstein is simply not realistic.

274 You're confusing patience with faith. Patience is the ability to wait for something good that you know will happen. Faith is waiting for something good to happen without any evidence that it will.

THis has probably come up but from ESPN --

"Asked via e-mail to respond to reports that he might be tapped to manage the Dodgers, Bobby Valentine declined comment to ESPN."

To quote Cabin Boy, "You know what that means...Yes, you do!"

278 It is as telling as when the Dodgers' PR director refused to comment this morning on Depodesta's fate.

Yes, given the choice of Kim or Bowden I'd take Kim but I think the choices are wider then that.

I would prefer that McCourt narrowed his search, much as I prefer that managers don't bunt. Even if there was an optimal time for it, I do not believe the decision makers are qualified to recognize it.

I would take Jaime McCourt over Bowden. If we are going to stink and be a joke might as well take it to the extreme.

277: you know, K7, I would have defined those exactly opposite. As in, "I'm patiently waiting for McCourt to make the right choice, but I have faith that he'll screw it up."

I just read the comments on Rich Lederer's page, and now I won't be able to sleep either.

Henson is missing at least two commas in his tenth paragraph. Otherwise, I like the piece. The first sentence is pleasantly pointed.

260 - I was referring more to DePo's image than the Dodger one. In the end, DePodesta had no support from anybody save a small minority (like most people here). It's not his job to be liked by the public, but in this case it could have helped him keep it long enough for the team to start winning.

265 - I was hoping for an average rotation with a lights out bullpen and a balanced and strong offensive attack in a weak NL West. I don't see any NL West teams improving significantly, and plucky say Brian Giles helps us and hurts the Pads at the same time. Then the cavalry could start arriving in late 2006 into 2007.

267 - I think we all figure that Ng learned from Evans and DePodesta, who are good-enough-GMs to know that they shouldn't deal away our prospects for has beens. So we figure Ng is at least from the same mold.

274 Waiting for something to happen and waiting for a plan to pan out are 2 different things. Depo said that the prospects wouldn't be ready until 2006 and 2007 and wanted to remain competetive until these prospects were ready, something which would've been closer to true if the club were healthy.

As someone who doesn't accept the "ends justify the means" approach to life, I was sickened by today's move.

That said, there's two things everyone should take into account:

1) There is no reason for DePo to feel he was shafted. Positions that command the kind of salary he was making are "bottom-line" jobs. You get judged on results only. Executives are constantly being fired for results that weren't due to their actions.

2) Even if you believe that most DePo's moves were good ones (as I do), this doesn't mean he was a good GM. A few reasons why McCourt might think so:
- If DePo ticked off people with the initial Green trade that didn't go through, that's bad - these are the same GMs he's going to have to deal with in the future
- Maybe he should have made it clear to Tracy that he (DePodesta) was his boss. McCourt might have expected him to be forceful, rather than waste a whole season and then fire Tracy.
- You got the impression DePodesta handled some of the negotiations in an amateur manner - with Beltre, he seemed to get caught with his pants down (even though he was right not to sign him for 13 million); with O. Perez he made a move that he really didn't want to do, but felt he was stuck, etc.

He might be the best assistant GM in the majors, but that doesn't mean he has what it takes to be a successful GM. Character may not count for players, but personality definitely is important for a position like GM.

286 -- That's a good point (the last one).

I will go on record as saying that if the result of this is Gillick, Hershiser, and Valentine, I will probably be able to resist the urge to self-immolate, and perhaps, to borrow a line from Blues Brothers (and Hugh Hewitt last week), we can put the band back together.

289- That's the Plaschke Solution, right? So what happens to Kim Ng? Are there GM's with two AGMs under them?

226 Tanaka Kakuei was who you should have said. The "Shadow Shogun." In fact, when Nakasone became PM, his administration was derisively called "Tanakasone," to point to Tanaka's power.

Whoever the new manager is, I hope he likes Claremont.

291 Tanaka died in 1993. In more recent times, the likes of Nakasone and Takeshita have been the king makers.

286: You've noticed, no doubt, that in LA it helps to be a local hero to keep your GM job; witness Jerry West, Dave Taylor, even Elgin Baylor (oy!).

Bill Stoneman keeps his job because he spends a large payroll well, keeps quality prospects in the pipeline, and wins... and thus is able to stay out of the media glare (it helps being way south of the Times building, too). And he did it before Moreno got there, so it's not all about good ownership...

Stoneman was an experienced, successful GM before he got to SoCal. Why can't the Dodgers hire one of those? Or is that not PC with the OPS crowd? Not that people are beating down the door to work with McCourt, despite the stacked farm system...

294 - Stoneman was allowed to stay after a losing season in 2003.

290 Yes. Off the top of my head, Philly has two (Amaro and Arbuckle), both were assistants under Wade. I've also seen Roy Smith labelled as an assistant GM, but I'm not sure if the title is correct. As of right now, he's has as much authority as Ng does

290 -

I'm embarrassed to point out that I offered the Plaschke solution (post 79) before Plaschke did. I should never be allowed to post here again.

I think we need to keep in mind that McCourt's actions indicate that the ability to communicate in a glib manner, voicing optimism at every turn, is the primary requisite for being employed (for any length of time) by the Dodgers. This is why Lasorda has McCourt's ear, why Orel will be hired in some capacity and why DePo is unemployed tonight. The McCourts want people who are good at verbalizing and are always positive. They also want people who will go out of their way to meet the press anywhere, anytime.

295: it wasn't a shot at DePo, Jon, or a plug for McCourt. It was a suggestion that maybe an experienced GM is a good idea, rather than trying to unearth the "next" [insert favorite GM here].

But that's wishful thinking, I know: "win on the small stage and we'll offer you a shot at a big stage in LA." That only works if the working conditions on that big stage are favorable...

298 If the Dodgers hired Gillick, it would be almost guarunteed he's just there to help the future GM, likely Hershiser. If Texas is willing, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Hershiser named special assistant to the GM, and then take over in 2-3 years

Ironic, isn't it, that tonight is "Turn Back The Clock" night.

After being upset today about DePo fired today, I was able to quickly come to terms with and accept it tonight, when Mark Gubicza told us on the So Cal Sports Report that he thought this was the right move. Well, thank God for that!

Man, I need a dodgerblues.com update.

P.S. I'm a very rare poster, but I read this all the time. I just wanted to thank you all. I'd go insane if not for Jon and the commenters on here, CIVILLY and LOGICALLY discussing the Dodgers. "Come, let us reason together" is the phrase that always comes to my mind. Everyone that comes here seems welcome, no matter their opinions, as long as they discuss it intelligently or calmly, etc etc. But seriously, I don't know that I'll post much in the future or anything, but from me and all the other non-posting-readers like me, thanks to everyone on this site, especially Jon. SOrry about that, just felt like I really wanted to comment after all this stuff happened.

And for what it's worth, I'm like Steve here, there is definitely reason for optimism. Gillick seems strong, and while I hated Valentine when he was with the Mets, it was more out of my hate of the Mets and his loudmouthishness. Who knows, maybe he'd be good.

Anyways, sorry for the lengthy post, all. YOu've already had to read enough comments today as it is. :-)

301: Jon and his regulars are class acts. They've patiently tolerated my hyperactive first day.

And the great thing about sports is, teams often (well, sometimes?) overcome incompetent and irrational ownership...

298- Well, there was something about the snideness of saying that an experienced GM would not be PC with the OPS crowd, which was a preposterous suggestion. I don't know anyone who has said that experience is by definition bad. The priority is a good GM, experienced or not.

303- Sorry if that came across as snide... I've just read a lot of comments today suggesting that any active GM (other than Epstein or Beane) would be a terrible idea.

304 - I think those comments are because of finding fault with their approach - not because of their experience alone.

258"And, as much as i hope Navaro turns out to be a stud, what does it say about the Dodger farm system that they went to such lengths to get Navaro with a supposed great prospect like Russell Martin in the wings? Maybe Martin is not as good as they are saying?"

Re: the Dodger farm system - It tells me that Evans' and Depo's predecesors didn't do an adequate job of filling the organization's catching depth.

Re: Martin vs. Navarro - Martin started the year at AA and, like many AA players, was not ready to make the jump to the majors. Ain't no thang.

Rosenthal weighs in:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5036306

>> As one team after another hires young, brilliant executives with limited experience, you wonder when owners will get the message.

"As one team after another hires young, brilliant executives with limited experience and the annoying habit of not returning phone calls, from me, Ken Rosenthal, you wonder when owners will get the message."

(sigh) Yeah, I'm not sure how thrilled I am that Rosenthal is making some of my arguments for me... well, he usually gets some things right (how's that for damning with faint praise?). And now I've annoyed Jon... time to turn out the big light.

297 I wouldn't call him glib, but in every Depo interview I've ever heard or read, he was positive, upbeat, well-spoken, and unshakeable.

It's quite possible that he wasn't that way behind the scenes, or didn't communicate well enough to his players and management, but he did as good or better a job than most GMs I hear: he managed to speak in cliches without making it sound like he was, he explained his approach without sounding defensive, and if he didn't go into total specifics about his future plans or players he wanted to get, what GM does?

293 The press made a lot of noise about Nakasone picking his own successor in 1987, but it was Takeshita who stole Tanaka's faction away and had the most support in the party. Uno and Kaifu were nobody's choice. Miyazawa was Takeshita's and Nakasone's rival. Nakasone wanted Watanabe, but never got him the top job. Koizumi then put Nakasone out to pasture, refusing to give him the party endorsement in the last election (not this year's - the one before).

But I got your point, in any case. Lasorda needs to be forcibly retired.

297- You're right, you beat Plaschke to an idea. Wilhite wears the Scarlet P!

I listened to McCourts press conference. If he places a high value on communication skills, he has a funny way of showing it. All the, "I'm a builder, uh, that's my nature. To build things. Uh. . ." business failed to knock off my socks.

Is it really a good idea for any GM to explain each and every bit of his strategy? Doesn't that give every other GM a leg up in negotiating with him or her?

So Lasorda should get an office and be forced to have to look out the window of it for 8 hours a day before he can go home?

Rosenthal credits the relationships within baseball that expereienced baseball GMs possess. He states this experience as the reason why the Pirates GM ends up with such a great find in Jim Tracy as the two knew each other from previous encounters in the baseball profession.

Because one shouldn't dare, you know, reach for greatness by going a different route than the tried and not-so-true.

Jon, perhaps a post from you about the number of people who have been fired since McCourt took over would be instructive. It sure seems I have been reading about McCourt firing whomever in what seems like almost whimsical fashion since he took over the franchise. Add to that the firings that are not classified as firings (Ross Porter)and I have a disturbing image of McCourt as a younger version of George Steinbrenner.

I have said some pointed barbs at LaSorda in my comments today and I don't retract them. But it seems to me in the end it is McCourt who is responsible here. I can't imagine Tommy being behind his countless firings, hirings and then firings of the people he hired on the PR staff. Anyone who has the impossible job of trying to provide positive PR for McCourt deserves a large paycheck and a good severance package on the way out the door.

Stan from Tacoma

313 Yup. Madogiwa no Tommy-chan.

Wow, I thought I broke the board when I tried to post this earlier, here it goes again, my NatePurcell-esque look at today's news:

>>
Does anybody else here see Gillick coming in to LA, probably with Hershiser and Ng as assistants, and then working out a HUGE mega-deal with the Phillies' Hunsicker and Tampa Bay's DePodesta along these lines:

To LAD: Bobby Abreu, Joey Gathright
To PHI: Dioner Navarro, Aubrey Huff, Edwin Jackson
To TAM: Hee Seop Choi, Vicente Padilla, Antonio Perez

I also second 301, as the late Peter Jennings would say, "many thanks" to everybody who makes this place worth reading all 700+ posts.

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, off of mlb.com: "The other interviewed candidates -- Triple-A manager Jerry Royster, San Francisco bench coach Ron Wotus and Cleveland Minor League manager Torey Lovullo -- have been informed that they are out of the running, a team spokesman indicated on Friday night. "

http://tinyurl.com/a6oqf

Finally, instead of mentioning how I want USC AND UCLA to both lose, I'll just drop the fact that I managed to inadvertantly meet the starting center of our women's basketball team at the football game today. Nate, if you think talking to girls is fun now, try talkin to one who is six foot four!
<<

i joked about us being like the indians in Major Leauges a few months back. The Movie. With everyone hating the chick owner cause she is trying to get them to loose. Jeez, it's not that far fetched anymore.

Just when you think things can't get any worse, they do.

"When [DePodesta's] odd list of [GM] candidates did not resemble one put together by a savvy general manager with lots of contacts — and when he didn't even try to ask for permission to talk to Mike Scioscia — the decision was made."

From Plaschke's piece. Is that a hypothetical, savvy GM, or perhaps the highly placed AL East source from last week? Or is it Tommy? Or is Plaschke inventing a rationale when none was given?

McCourt didn't give an actual reason for dumping DePo, at least not one that would account for when he dumped him. Did DePo really get fired for wanting a non-celebrity (cheap) manager?

I still feel pretty miserable. This is the worst I've felt in quite some time.

Didn't talk to the source today, but if I had to take a guess, Orel as GM with Lasorda as special assistant--as he is already; Valentine as manager.

Yes, I think Lasorda had McCourt's ear, and I don't think DePodesta has been doing his job since the end of the season regardless of what we read. I'm sure the trip to Italy helped him in knowing that the end was near simply because everything we hear in the media is pure speculation--just like my post.

As many of you know, I wasn't happy about a lot of the previous moves, but Depo had something going here that I've always wanted to see in a Dodger team--building from with-in.

It's going to be fun watching the games on television because I'm certainly not going to pay to go to the ballpark. I'll make my own bunless Dodger Dogs here at home. That is unless McCourt fires Farmer John from making them, which of course is probably going to happen anyway.

Still, I'll always be a Dodger fan--first or last.

Looking at the bright side: Was Lasorda really that bad of a guy? Maybe for some of you, but all of those division titles and 2 out of four World Series he seems to have been a cut better then most--and remember this, Steinbrenner wanted to hire him at one time!

317- Stand Pat wouldn't make that deal for obvious reasons... Depodesta would be getting robbed. The Phillies would probably do that deal.

As far as our GM goes, I'm on the anybody but Jim Bowden, Lasorda, or Pat Gillick bandwagon.

Lasorda in Simer's article today speaking on Ken Rosenthal's rumor that he was backstabbing Depo and Badmouthing him to McCourt...

"That is the biggest lie; in front of God, it's a stinking, no good lie," Lasorda shouted, and I noticed he shouted a little louder when he saw a TV camera rolling. "He has absolutely no proof of that. I never said anything bad about Paul DePodesta. I have never, ever said a bad word about Paul DePodesta to Frank."

321- I'm asking this because I don't know, not trying to prove a point: In what way was DePo not doing his job since the end of the season?

And Lasorda on who the Next GM should be (also from simers' article...

"I've mentioned my selection to Frank, and you'll know as soon as we get a new GM if he was listening to me," Lasorda said with that smug smile he gives when he already knows the answer.And that suggests the next GM of the Dodgers will be former Baltimore, Seattle and Toronto GM Pat Gillick, whom Lasorda admires because Gillick admires him.

Simers also writes...

"Lasorda is also no longer supporting Terry Collins, because DePodesta "is in the past" as Lasorda put it, and so he's once again on the Bobby Valentine campaign trail."

320- I know what you mean.

MSNBC is polling on whether the Dodgers were right to fire DePodesta. So far, McCourt's coming up huge, and Paul's getting owned.

http://tinyurl.com/9l8hq

324 McCourt didn't say there was a problem with DePodesta's post-season. His rationale for firing the GM was that DePodesta was not successful, presumably referring to 2005.

Maybe because it's late, but this analogy occured to me: Firing DePodesta because the Dodgers lost 91 games is like firing your mechanic because you had a flat tire.

The only other reason offered, implicitly, was DePodesta was lacking in PR and communication skills.

Thinking in a deep, psychological sort of way, I think McCourt looked at DePodesta and saw a mirror of himself--inexperienced, uncertain, in over his head, controversial, unlucky. Since he couldn't fire himself, he fired DePodesta. The problem is, DePodesta was inevitably going to improve. McCourt will not.

He's established the pattern that when he fails, he fires. When that leads to more failure; he fires more. What he doesn't do is change his own act.

Geek note: Firefox users, if you install the extension Linkification, you can turn the text urls on DT (or anywhere else) into clickable links. Default is to open in the current tab, but you can edit that to make them open in new tabs. Maybe this was widely known, but I just found it. And it rocks.

https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=190

okay, just got back from the glass house from the against me! show. it was really funny, also really needed so i can forget about the dodgers for a little while.

to jon: sorry about my previous post (with tghe naughty language). I am usually really good about that.

Anyways, it seems that there will be A LOT of player personal movementg on the dodgers this offseason. with about 45 mil to spend to reach the 100 mil mark, the new GM wil surely lay out of some big contracts to get the local fan base excited again and to get the media to stay Pro dodgers/Mccourt.

that in mind, IMO, Konerko is now probably a 70% chance of coming to LA if he doesnt resign with the white sox. there is absolutely no way the new management will let anaheim outbid for konerko. Choi will probably stay on board as a backup 1b unless he gets included in a package deal. hes only going to make 900k this yr so just outright releasing him would not be a smart move.

and i wish i wouldnt say this, but there will probably be at least one major trade involving some of our top prospects. its practically inevitable.

Right now, i wont be jumping to conclusions, ill just be in a wait and see move. I will always love the dodgers and im not going to follow another baseball team. But after only about 18 months, i think ive had it with the current ownership. Simply because of the fact that i think THEY are in over their heads and when criticism is laid down upon them, they panic, fire everyone, thus thwarting the blame unto others.

but whatever, what do i know, im just a college student, im not savvy in the intricies of the baseball word.

one last night. you guys think if i email my "plan for dodger domination in 2006" excel worksheet to MCcourt he would give me an interview? i promise ill pay attention to team chemistry and build him a winner!

328- What worries me is that McCourt does change. Maybe not his act, just his philosophy of baseball. There has to be some reason he hired DePo, in the first place. Has anybody been surprised by DePo's moves? DePo was a fairly well known quantity, right? He wrote that Moneyball book on his laptop. I don't see how you go from thinking DePo is the guy, to thinking Lasorda is. I don't get how that happens, unless the DePo-is-the-guy thought was based on his job interview sales pitch.

McCourt has the Dodger Way bromide down, but for every concrete indication of what he wants, he's given an entirely opposite one. If he really doesn't know, that's okay, that's what GMs are for. But is there any reason to guess the next GM, whoever it is, gets more than two years to win a ring? You can't give any weight to contract length, apparently.

If nate's right, and McCourt and the new GM get in to an appendage measuring contest, then he's an idiot. The best thing he had going for him was the 'McCourt is broke' meme. Here on out he gets to pay the rich moron penalty to the Boras's Kids Scholarship Fund.

Konerko will make 13mils to do what Choi/Saenz have been doing for 2 mils.

Welcome back to the good old days.

Can't sleep. But for all the fear of Bowden and Gillick, one thing I think no one has mentioned on this thread before is: Steve Phillips

That thought really scares me.

329 - Thank you, thank you, thank you!

FYI, so far in this thread there have been four commenters who called him just "Paul", per that espn.com article. In case we were curious, you know.

Also, more signs of a complete meltdown in the office: Glenn Hoffman looking to interview with the Padres for the exact same job. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2208028

[336] well, it is his name, mark :P

Theo has resigned. LA Bound?!