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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Jackie's Retirement
2005-11-03 10:20
by Jon Weisman

Jackie Robinson had already decided to retire before the Dodgers traded him to the Giants, as this item from the Library of Congress indicates:

Jackie Robinson decided to retire from baseball after the 1956 season. He accepted a job offer from the Chock Full O' Nuts restaurant chain in New York and contracted with Look magazine to write an article to break the news and explain his reason: "My legs are gone and I know it." (from Glenn Stout's Jackie Robinson, p. 178) (Robinson had worked with Look before, most recently to publish an autobiographical series in January and February 1955.) In December 1956, a month before the "My Future" article appeared, the Dodgers' general manager told Robinson that the team had traded him to the New York Giants. Robinson followed through with his retirement plans, although the Giants' management tried to change his mind.

Thanks to the Dodger Thoughts reader who pointed this out in response to my article Sunday.

Comments (330)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-03 10:29:49
1.   natepurcell
first post!

anyone see the laker game last night? boy, that was a pretty exciting game. the lake show fought hard and pulled it down. I really think, once they gain "chemistry" and kwame gains some more confidence from phill and kobe, they will suprise a lot of people.
kobe is still pretty dang "clutch".

i just sinned twice in my previous paragraph

2005-11-03 10:33:03
2.   Bob Timmermann
But Robinson had decided to retire, but he didn't announce it publicly or even tell the Dodgers because of the Look magazine article. O'Malley and Bavasi definitely wanted to get rid of Robinson who was not a popular man in the Dodgers clubhouse in 1956 as the team was torn between two factions: one behind Robinson and one behind Campanella.

That's the theory advanced in Michael Shapiro's "The Last Good Season".

2005-11-03 10:38:45
3.   gvette
Of course, this doesn't get the Dodgers off the hook for the way they dumped other greats like Snider,Wills, Hodges,Furillo,and Sutton at the end of their careers. Not to mention Garvey and Fernando.
2005-11-03 10:41:09
4.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Russell got to stick around until he became manager.

Then he got (bleep)canned.

2005-11-03 10:41:23
5.   blue22
1 - Kobe is great, but a pleasant surprise might be the Smush Parker/Laron Profit big/small tandem at the 1-guard. If those two play well, it allows Phil to limit McKie's minutes for the big playoff push.

Also good to see Devean George show up.

Negatives - Odom still looks lost, and Kwame didn't look all that impressive.

2005-11-03 10:42:10
6.   scanderbeg
The more news I hear about the Dodgers current offseason, the more bleak outlook I have. I wouldn't mind the Dodgers hiring Kim Ng as the new GM because she understands the direction that the Dodgers were going under DePo. She values bringing up talent through the minors, and is quite good with the media.

1- Great game last night. I agree that the Lakers should have a good season, but I will continue on my crusade against Chris Mihm. I don't think he has any "heart." A center should have more than 2 rebounds in a game, right? Maybe I'm an old-school guy that needs to get in touch with new modes of statistical analysis, but how many back-door alley-opps can one guy give up?

The over/under for Mihm fouling out of games this season is 30. Who's in?

2005-11-03 10:45:54
7.   Penarol1916
1. That's okay, thinking that Kwame Brown will ever make anything of himself in the NBA is a sin that even Michael Jordan has committed.
2005-11-03 10:45:55
8.   scanderbeg
5-We have a Laron Profit sighting!

By the way, when did it become against the law for Lamar Odom to go at the basket (as opposed to fade away from it) when he drives with the ball?

2005-11-03 10:52:31
9.   Colorado Blue
6 - She values bringing up talent through the minors, and is quite good with the media.

What is your basis for her being good with the media? I'm not being rhetorical, I'm really asking. I know little-to-nothing of her and have seen nothing in print. Besides, "good with the media" is very different between the AGM and the GM. My guess is that AGMs get a lot of fluff coverage if any at all. The question is is she "media-savvy" enough to satisfy McCourt-jester and Plaschke?

2005-11-03 10:52:31
10.   natepurcell
odom did have a horrible game but i think he will bounce back. he is the initiator of the offense so he'll get back in the flow of things.

even though kwame didnt play great, lakers did a bad job of getting him the ball. he can be a beast in the low post on the offensive side of the ball, we need to do a better job of giving him more opportunities. Kwame needs to do a better job of playing with more intensity on defense. Mihm just looks lost on defense. there must have been at least 4 alley hoops by camby on him. that was ridiculous.

2005-11-03 10:54:43
11.   Felton
6 - I find this a little confusing. If the Dodgers hire Ng or Epstein, then it doesn't make sense that they fired DePodesta. If they hire John Hart, then why did they fire Jim Tracy? The timing is also screwed up - if McCourt was unhappy with DePodesta and Tracy, why not fire DePodesta and then let the new GM decide what to do about Tracy?
2005-11-03 10:55:41
12.   Felton
Is there any interest in Los Angeles in having the Saints move there?
2005-11-03 10:56:37
13.   Bob Timmermann

Ahh, you have discovered the zen koan that is the Dodgers.

Meditate on this and come back to us with your answer.

2005-11-03 10:56:46
14.   natepurcell
the only hirings that would make sense are in fact the hirings that would make me throw up.

that is:
bowden as GM
valentine as manager

2005-11-03 10:57:22
15.   gvette
"I find this a little confusing."

That pretty much sums up the whole situation.

2005-11-03 11:01:30
16.   Tim B
"Is there any interest in Los Angeles in having the Saints move there? "
2005-11-03 11:03:16
17.   Colorado Blue
11 - You're giving McCourt waaaayyyy too much credit. I think several posters have summed it up correctly by stating that the McCourts are caught up in appearances. That they look like like complete morons is testament to their woeful lack of PR instinct. Real estate is not quite as high-profile as owning a MLB team.
2005-11-03 11:03:39
18.   Penarol1916
10. Kwame never plays great, on occasion he can play well, if everything is perfect and he is happy with the amount of touches he's getting, but putting faith in him is like putting faith in the McCourts, your just bound to be disappointed.
2005-11-03 11:03:53
19.   Bob Timmermann
There already is a pro football team in L.A. that plays in the Coliseum. That keeps people happy.
2005-11-03 11:06:23
20.   scanderbeg
I remember Ng being very gracious when the remarks by the Singer were made towards her. I exaggerated a little w/ "quite good with the media" because I saw her as a sympathetic victim in that situation who had enough confidence and integrity to not respond negatively to a very embarrassing situation
2005-11-03 11:07:24
21.   scanderbeg
18 - Unfortunately, I completely agree. I hope I am wrong, though.
2005-11-03 11:08:43
22.   blue22
11 - If the Dodgers hire Ng or Epstein, then it doesn't make sense that they fired DePodesta.

I think it's a mistake to consider these 3 to be clones of themselves. There can be other things at play here besides a SABR-approach to roster management.

2005-11-03 11:11:32
23.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Ng was as much "gracious" with Singer as more that she just stood her ground and didn't let a drunk get her upset.

Would anyone walk up to Paul DePodesta or Tommy Lasorda and ask them where they were "from"?

2005-11-03 11:12:40
24.   gvette
22-- Only the McCourts' and their syncophants know for sure; BUT;

If your first choice for the job is old school Pat Gillick, that could signal a desire to go away from a sabremetrics approach.

2005-11-03 11:15:55
25.   Bob Timmermann
The last Dodgers GM to be an actual card-carrying member of SABR was Dan Evans.

He actually offered to host a meeting at Dodger Stadium for the local chapter.

Then he got fired.

2005-11-03 11:17:32
26.   jelmendorf
Re: 3

I'm not sure what you mean about the Dodgers not being off the hook for the way they dumped some former heroes at the end of their careers.

Of the players you mention, two never left the Dodgers (Wills & Furillo), two played at least four more years after leaving (Garvey & Fernando) and one returned to the Dodgers after a 7-year absence for one last season (Sutton).

Snider & Hodges were both sent off for 1-2 lousy years with other teams.

2005-11-03 11:18:20
27.   Colorado Blue
Let's be clear, the McCourts want someone who is high-profile enough to obfuscate some (most) of the negative attention off of themselves. I truly believe this is their 1st priority and I would be completely shocked if Ng got the job whether or not she is the most qualified.

Theo would fit priority 1 to a tee and has the added benefit of known quantity. Bowden would serve priority 1 as well; a big blowhard whose mouth would create a big enough diversion for the McCourts.

2005-11-03 11:19:14
28.   blue22
24 - Has Gillick been outed as an "anti-Moneyballer"?
2005-11-03 11:20:20
29.   Bob Timmermann
Other GMs who are actual members of SABR:
Tim Purpura
Dave Dombrowski
2005-11-03 11:21:13
30.   Marty
26 Wills definitely got thrown out after not going on the Japan goodwill trip as I recall. Though, I'd have traded him because of the banjo-playing more than anything else :)
2005-11-03 11:21:50
31.   Bob Timmermann
So where was Maury Wills playing from 1967 until early in 1969?

Furillo was released early in the 1960 season.

2005-11-03 11:22:41
32.   Colorado Blue
27 - In other words, it's a crap shoot for those of us who want the best person for the job in terms of a long-term strategy of winning based on a sound policy of internal growth and FA acquisitions. This further demonstartes that the McCourts priority 1 is blame-sharing and not winning. We had DePo, but that was not enough...
2005-11-03 11:23:03
33.   Marty
Don't want no banjo hitting or playing infielders on my team
2005-11-03 11:23:30
34.   blue22
27 - If the McCourt's top two candidates were/are Gillick and Theo, and both fall off the list, I might not be too shocked if Jamie McCourt seizes the opportunity to put Ng in charge.
2005-11-03 11:23:38
35.   natepurcell
dombrowski is the GM of what team?

can we get dan evans back?

2005-11-03 11:24:25
36.   blue22
35 - Isn't he Detroit's guy?
2005-11-03 11:26:11
37.   Bob Timmermann
Dombrowski is the GM of Detroit.

My point is that it is important that people use "sabermetric" to describe Beane and DePodesta.

There is no "SABR" way of thinking or building a baseball team. If you went to a SABR meeting here in the L.A. area, you'd run into a lot more people who would tell you about the 1953 PCL race than VORP.

2005-11-03 11:27:34
38.   Bob Timmermann
Buzzie Bavasi is a SABR member. I even got an email from him once in reply to something I posted to SABR-L. He's a pretty sharp guy and it would be interesting if someone got his perspective on the shenanigans in the Dodgers front office.
2005-11-03 11:31:20
39.   natepurcell
you should email him bob and ask him.
2005-11-03 11:31:39
40.   gvette
26-- The issue isn't that the players involved were at the end of their careers, its the lack of sentiment, appeciation and class that was shown by the Dodgers that I disagree with;

1)According to his autobiography, Wills only learned that he was being released when told by a newspaper writer while he was playing a charity golf tournament, not directly from Campanis and the Dodgers;

2)Snider, Captain of the Dodgers in '62 was cut by Bavasi after the last Spring exhibition game in '63 while on the road and sent packing in the middle of the night. Same thing happened when Podres was unloaded in mid '66.

3)Furillo, as quoted in "The Boys of Summer" was also unhappy as to how he was released.

4)Sutton and Fernando were so unhappy about how they were released that both were estranged from the organization for years.

There is no easy way to say goodbye to athletes past their prime, but to my knowledge, only Koufax left the Dodgers on his own terms, and in his own time.

2005-11-03 11:35:18
41.   Colorado Blue
34 - It would be interesting, but how do you spin firing DePo? "We felt it was time for a change..." That means the change was hiring a woman? I say this because without a proven track record you don't what kind of change your in for. Ergo, the "change" must be strictly based on gender.

I guess what I mean is that hiring Ng will do nothing to make the McCourts look less stupid for firing DePo unless she leads them to the NL West title in '06... that's quite a gamble.

If this is all about Jamie McCourt getting a woman into the GM spot then MLB needs to step up and revoke the MCourt ownership! (Can it even do such a thing?)

2005-11-03 11:36:46
42.   Bob Timmermann
MLB has antitrust exemption so it can do quite a bit to McCourt's ownership status if it felt so motivated. But I doubt any of the other owners find McCourt's move all that unusual.

It's not affecting their bottom line (not like having a franchise in Montreal).

2005-11-03 11:41:00
43.   jasonungar05
If your first choice for the job is old school Pat Gillick, that could signal a desire to go away from a sabremetrics approach.

Unless you never even get around to making him an offer

2005-11-03 11:42:29
44.   Bob Timmermann
Completely different sport, but former NHL coach and GM Jacques Demers has admitted that he can't read or write.

2005-11-03 11:43:17
45.   Colorado Blue
42 - Good point, Bob. In that vein, it also has may have the added benefit of taking some of the visibilty off of their own questionable moves.
2005-11-03 11:48:03
46.   blue22
41 - So you're saying that Ng's only distinguishing characteristic from Depo is her female parts? Other than that, she is a carbon copy?

There are reasons why Depo was fired. It's very likely that we do not know the full story. It may or may not have to do with his roster selection (which I'm assuming is Ng and Depo's shared quality).

If the McCourt's short list of people they want to bring in to replace him get exhausted after Theo and Gillick politely decline, they'll have a choice to make - retreads Bowden or Hart, or give Ng a chance. Not because she's a woman, but because once Theo and Gillick are off the market, Ng seems like the best choice.

2005-11-03 11:57:02
47.   das411
5 - don't mean Aaron McKie, do you?
2005-11-03 12:00:05
48.   blue22
47 - Oh yeah. Classic Phil strategy. Play the young guys the first 3/4 of the season, then bring in the fresh vets for the final run and playoffs. See Horry, Fox, Shaw, Harper...all those guys played way more minutes in the playoffs than regular season.

McKie can be ok, just in limited minutes. I'm sure you, Philly Boy, may have a different opinion on that statement though. :-)

2005-11-03 12:05:01
49.   bigcpa
Assuming the manager selection was what got DePo ousted, that makes for an odd situation for the incoming GM. You'd think GM candidates would withhold judgement on potential managers since they haven't conducted interviews. But what if the new GM gets in here and decides he/she wants Collins. McCourt may have to give the GM a short list to work with- and that could be a turn off. So you're left with an Old Boy yes man who really wants the job- and that sounds like Bowden.
2005-11-03 12:07:17
50.   Bob Timmermann
Jim Bowden is not a particularly old guy. He's just 44.

Of course, I'm 39 with the spectre of 40 staring him in the face very soon.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-03 12:13:03
51.   das411
47 - Oh no, I always liked Aaron McKie as the clutch role player, sort of a mini-Derek Fisher but one who can actually defend. Plus he is from Philly all the way, so it was almost hard to believe they let him go after sticking around so long. Those two years or so when he actually became a starter though....ugh.

I found a Philadelphia 76ers: Eastern Conference Champion tshirt from 2000 this summer at the Salvation Army, and there is only one player left from that team today. Everyone gets 3 guesses who it is.

2005-11-03 12:14:36
52.   Colorado Blue
46 - No, of course I'm not... I didn't present my point very well. I just think firing DePo and hiring Ng will be heavily scrutinized given the McCourt statement of "... needing a new direction". I'm sure Ng is not a DePo clone, but why on Earth do you let DePo fire Tracy then fire DePo? The only reason I can think of is to insert a known quantity with the proven ability to deal with the media. I'm not sure you can be positive of either of those things with Ng.
2005-11-03 12:15:48
53.   popup
#44,Bob, Jacques Demers sounds like he would be the perfect GM for the Dodgers. Most of the people here think the Dodger front office should ignore the LA Times. Demers I assume would have no trouble doing that.

Stan from Tacoma

p.s. I second the nomination for you to do an interview with Buzzie. I hope you would not limit it to the current front office situation. Buzzie started with the Dodgers in the 1930s. It would be interesting to hear him talk about all of the momentous events of Dodger history (the move to LA, etc.) including the subject of Jon's post, the sale of Jackie Robinson to the New York Giants.

2005-11-03 12:19:13
54.   Bob Timmermann
I think Jon would be a much better person to do it than me. I really am not good at interviewing people.
2005-11-03 12:21:03
55.   bigcpa
Bowden's backslapping relationship with Tommy is what I'm referring to. Therefore 56 yr old Bill James could fall under the New School label.
2005-11-03 12:21:05
56.   Kayaker7
I just got a holiday promo e-mail from the Dodgers. I replied, saying that I will not be giving any money to the Dodgers, as long as McCourt is the owner.
2005-11-03 12:22:24
57.   blue22
51 - Ha, by your tone I thought you were doubting the genius of Mitch Kupchak for bringing McKie in.

He's ok, but I would've rather seen Antonio Daniels or Derek Anderson here instead. For some reason the Lakers have this strange 2-year plan that they didn't want any contracts surpassing. McKie was the best they could get given the saltine crackers they were offering each of those players to come here. I'm assuming it was the Amare/Yao plan, but that was a (crack)pipe dream.

2005-11-03 12:22:57
58.   Joe
Let's not cofuse SABR members with proponents of sabermetrics. There are many SABR members who don't give a crap about VORP and would rather chat about the short-lived history of the Fresno Raisin Eaters.
2005-11-03 12:26:13
59.   Joe
44 -- Which makes losing the Stanley Cup to him all the more painful.
2005-11-03 12:26:54
60.   gvette
53--Stan, try to find Bavasi's autobiography "Off the Record" published in the late '80's. It's a goldmine of info on the 50's-60's Dodgers, as well as his time with the Padres and Angels.

His chapter on Lasorda is priceless (key quote "I was as surprised as anyone that Lasorda eventually became manager of the Dodgers...He never impressed anyone with his knowledge of the game. But he did have a great personality.").

2005-11-03 12:31:17
61.   natepurcell
I'm assuming it was the Amare/Yao plan, but that was a (crack)pipe dream

there are a lot other available players- dirk, labron, chris bosh are some that come to mind.

2005-11-03 12:35:01
62.   blue22
61 - Maybe we're talking about 2 different offseasons then. Bosh and LeBron come from the same class, just like Amare and Yao came from the same one. Bosh and LeBron figure to be available (maybe) the season after next, so that makes sense. Maybe it was after this season that Yao/Amare would've been available. Both clubs max'd those guys though.
2005-11-03 12:39:26
63.   Bob Timmermann
I'm wondering who else would have been viewed as a potential replacement for Alston. I would think that Danny Ozark and Lefty Phillips bolted to the Phillies and Angels because they saw that they weren't going to get a managerial job with the Dodgers.

When Alston's retirement first broke in the paper, it appeared in a very early edition and Ross Newhan didn't know who would replace although Lasorda was the favorite. Lasorda had already received job offers from Atlanta, Montreal and Pittsburgh.

Maury Wills was under consideration for the job too.
That would have been an utter disaster as Wills was having serious problems with addictions at the time.

2005-11-03 12:43:53
64.   popup
gvette, thanks, I will look for it.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 12:46:39
65.   Bob Timmermann
The book is at my library, Stan.

Just get in your car and get on Interstate 5 heading south. When you get to CALIFORNIA 110 heading south, take that and then get off at 6th Street.

We're open until 8.

2005-11-03 12:53:32
66.   gvette
63--Preston Gomez?

You almost get into that whole Bill Russell argument about whether Lasorda was "undermining" Alston in his last few years.

Bobby Valentine has some awesome, ripping quotes on Alston, in support of Lasorda in "True Blue" by Steve Delsohn. Valentine claims that Alston called him "Bill" during the time that he was on the club, and preferred Russell at short, because Bobby was a "Tommy guy". Great stuff.

2005-11-03 13:02:32
67.   popup
Thanks for the offer and the directions Bob.

I don't think he was on the radar screen when Walter was ushered into retirement, but I always thought John Roseboro would have made a good manager. Too bad Campanis did not hire him or Gilliam; the whole Nightline fiasco would have been avoided.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 13:08:31
68.   Jacob L
Hi, everybody. I haven't checked in a while, mostly because I've just been too bummed/flabbergasted and have few original thoughts about the Dodgers' situation since last week.

I'm ready to come out of hiding now, I think. A couple points.

It seems that many of us are perfectly willing to accept "heart" and "chemistry" as perfectly legitimate factors in assembling a basketball team. At the same time the SI NBA preview last week a bunch of stuff about the development of new advanced stats for basketball. Is anybody into that? For some reason, I just don't have that much desire to develop a deep understanding of basketball.

Second, completely unrelated thought. The McCourts are starting to remind of the Bluths on Arrested Develoment, minus the criminal conviction part. Discuss?

2005-11-03 13:11:49
69.   Bob Timmermann
Russell's 1972 stats were almost identical to Valentine's.

But Russell was Campanis's choice to play shortstop. And Russell didn't vote against the strike in 1972. Valentine did vote against a strike. And he got a ticket to Anaheim for it.

2005-11-03 13:12:10
70.   regfairfield
At least the Bluths were successful at some point in time.
2005-11-03 13:20:53
71.   gvette
69--Valentine's revisionist history (courtesy of "True Blue")was that he asked for a trade when Alston told him that he was only going to be playing second in '73. Also that Alston saw him as one of "Tommy's guys".

As a kid I saw Valentine try to play 3B in '72, and he was pretty brutal.

2005-11-03 13:28:07
72.   Marty
Bob, are you in the main central library at 5th and Flower? I love that building.
2005-11-03 13:30:10
73.   Bob Timmermann

That's where others have tracked me down.

2005-11-03 13:33:06
74.   trainwreck
ESPNews reporting Theo has no interest at all in our job and he was the guy LA wanted.

How do you become a member of SABR?

2005-11-03 13:33:43
75.   Marty
I'm going to have to go over there, walk around, and see if I can spot you. It's just an A Dash trip for me :)
2005-11-03 13:35:45
76.   gvette
72--I was working across the street when that building caught fire (two times I think).
2005-11-03 13:36:49
77.   Penarol1916
68. I think that people put a lot more stock into heart and chemistry in basketball, and even football, because the action is so much more dependent on teamwork and what the other people do, baseball is a much more isolated and individualistic sport, where most of what you do, you do regardless of what others are doing.
2005-11-03 13:37:10
78.   Marty
I remember the big fire, but I wasn't working downtown then. I think they had to store most/all the books in the old Robinson's or May Co building while they renovated it.
2005-11-03 13:38:03
79.   slackfarmer
74 Not surprising. Theo's buddy Depo probably dished the dirt on McCourt that he was too classy to go public with.
2005-11-03 13:39:37
80.   Bob Timmermann

You can sign up at

The membership rate is discounted for students.

I think if you join now, your membership is good for all of 2006.

2005-11-03 13:43:30
81.   trainwreck
Do you participate in the meetings Bob?
2005-11-03 13:44:51
82.   gvette
78--I just remember that as a brand new attorney I needed to get back to my office to
take a deposition, was delayed because of the fire, and was terrified my senior partner would fire me.

Shows what great priorities lawyers have, while thousands of books and all that knowledge go up in smoke.

2005-11-03 13:50:27
83.   MikeB
Another day in the land of the blue...

Joe Sheehan (Baseball Prospectus) has posted an opinion piece today about Epstein's leaving the Red Sox and a pretty harsh assessment of the firing of Depodesta ("Bi-Coastal Silliness"). He does a pretty good job of whacking McCourt and the LA media upside the head. Here's a sample -

"Finally, the handling of DePodesta by the Los Angeles media should forever end the notion that mainstream sports journalism is to be taken seriously. DePodesta was subjected to personal attacks from the day he took the job to the day he was fired, and those attacks had nothing to do with baseball. They were simply the work of hacks who wanted to make a name for themselves with cheap jokes about an outsider. The episode, start to finish, is an embarrassment to everyone in the local media, both the no-talent "writers" who led the charge and the many others who refused to actually write about what DePodesta was doing, good and bad."

2005-11-03 13:50:39
84.   gvette
74--Jim Bowden's master plan is working.
2005-11-03 13:50:52
85.   Bob Timmermann

If I can get the day off I go to meetings, but my participation is usually helping to set up and clean up. The next meeting is November 19 at Angels Stadium, but I have to work.

You can go to the meeting without being a member.

We try to have meetings either at the Amateur Athletic Foundation in the West Adams district or at Angels Stadium. There is usually one outing to a minor league game (Cal League normally).

2005-11-03 13:57:24
86.   trainwreck
I really hope Kim Ng becomes GM. I think she is the best hope we have of someone coming in who does not know this team at all and just trades minor leaguers like nothing and throws big money at players.
2005-11-03 13:58:26
87.   blue22
74 - ESPNews is reporting both of those items - that Theo is saying buzz off AND that he was the guy LA wanted? Did they cite a source?

This stinks.

2005-11-03 13:58:50
88.   Vishal
what would be a better use of the money, SABR membership or a subscription to baseball prospectus?
2005-11-03 14:00:23
89.   Bob Timmermann

That depends upon what you are interested in more: current analysis and opinion or history combined with retrospective analysis?

2005-11-03 14:00:23
90.   trainwreck
They said LA Times said Theo was the guy Dodgers targeted but our sources say he is not interested in the job.
2005-11-03 14:00:38
91.   trainwreck
Haha I was kind of looking at both of those as well.
2005-11-03 14:07:40
92.   Vishal
[89] yeah, i'm thinking current analysis and opinion would be more useful to me. i was leaning more towards BP anyway. maybe once i get a job i can have both. what are the actual benefits of SABR membership? i know they have conferences and stuff...
2005-11-03 14:07:59
93.   trainwreck
Interesting NFL draft news I heard today. Mel Kiper Jr was talking about the draft and he mentioned how deep the running back class could be if all the junior running backs come out. He said he thought Maurice Drew was underrated and that he is around the level of Lendale White and could be a first round pick. So there goes all that talk about a third round steal. If Drew stays he has the chance to go higher if all the running backs leave early. So two potential first rounders with Lewis and Drew on UCLA. He also said Drew Olson can be a really solid backup NFL Qb and that Bush will definitely be the highest ranked player with Leinart behind him.
2005-11-03 14:16:44
94.   trainwreck
Random opinion here, but the Monster Shark Tournament on ESPN disgusts me. These sharks are endangered! You should not be killing endangered species for sport. I happen to like sharks a lot and it angers me to think that we could possibly lose the ability to ever see amazing creatures like the Great White. In the commercials the fishers are saying how you can see the fish wants to eat you, well no thats how their eyes always look and sharks are not fond of animals and it should want to hurt you jerk because you are trying to kill it. End of rant.
2005-11-03 14:17:34
95.   trainwreck
I meant humans not animals
2005-11-03 14:17:57
96.   King of the Hobos
According to the Daily News, Ng has been notified Dessens will decline his option. His agent assured her that Dessens would be willing to come back after testing free agency. I think Dessens wants to take advantage of the weak pitching market, so this is probably better for his personal wealth. Not sure how much I care, but Gagne is officially the oldest member of the 2006 Dodgers bullpen
2005-11-03 14:20:56
97.   blue22
94 - I've never heard of this before. Is it like a Bass Fishing tournament, except with sharks?
2005-11-03 14:21:56
98.   blue22
96 - That's a shame. I was looking forward to bringing him back. He was a good long man out of the pen.
2005-11-03 14:22:55
99.   trainwreck
From what I read last year they go after big game sharks like Great Whites and other species and just compete I guess who gets the biggest individual fish or combined catch.
2005-11-03 14:23:28
100.   natepurcell
i declined dessens option in on my excel worksheet too.

Ng is following my dodger plan for success in 2006.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-03 14:23:59
101.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
11, 22: These posts play with some assumptions about why DePodesta was truly fired.

p1. Club performance in 2005 was bad
p2. Paul lacked leadership, communication skills and "experience"
s1. His Moneyball roots (and/or methods) are not accepted by some / are losing favor
s2. Tommy Lasorda, the LA Times, and others influenced McCourt to fire him
s3. Some seem to believe DePodesta didn't do a good job, irrespective of performance
s4. McCourt didn't get along with DePodesta

Theo Epstein being approached by the Dodgers only contradicts s1, and perhaps s2. Since these are both speculative reasons for DePodesta being dismissed, it isn't fair to conclude anything about the real reasons.

Gillick being a choice would seem to contradict none of the above, but Gillick not contradicting speculations about reasons DePodesta was fired does not prove the speculations to be true. Epstein being a choice would disprove the assumptions, not prove a McCourt crazy.

That isn't to say McCourt isn't, however. It just doesn't prove it.

2005-11-03 14:26:07
102.   King of the Hobos
100 Well, Ng picked up the option. It's mutual, Dessens is declining it after the Dodgers picked it up
2005-11-03 14:30:37
103.   natepurcell
whats a better chance of happening? theo to LA, or dan evans returning to LA as GM?
2005-11-03 14:39:13
104.   jasonungar05
FYI Fred Claire is on 710 AM today at 3:45
2005-11-03 14:45:16
105.   Mark
99 They can't be fishing for Great White sharks without a specific permit, and I'm pretty certain they can't even do it then. You aren't allowed to even approach protected species (as I learned many times on the whalewatching tours).

103 Evans. I have been saying for a few days now, there is absolutely zero-- ZERO-- chance for Epstein to come to the Dodgers.

2005-11-03 14:50:59
106.   trainwreck
Well they used to show Great Whites in ads on and I believe the tournament is held in waters where they live, but yeah it is possible they do not.
2005-11-03 14:51:02
107.   Jon Weisman
103/105 - Evans is not going to work for the people who fired him (and others) with such indignities.
2005-11-03 14:58:00
108.   trainwreck
Just went to ESPN's page about the tournament and it does show pictures of Great Whites but it does not say whether they were catching them. It does mention the Mako shark by name as a shark they go after. Monster sharks would make you think they are going after big predatory sharks.
2005-11-03 15:00:57
109.   Bob Timmermann
If you join SABR, you get

1) at least two publications a year a) The National Pastime, which is a history/biographical journal and b) The Baseball Research Journal, which tends to be more numbers oriented

2) you get a free copy of whatever book the Society sponsored. The last one was a collective biography on Deadball Era stars of the NL. The AL volume is due out soon.

3) You get to participate in SABR-L and learn all sorts of neat stuff from people like Dave Smith, Bill James, etc.

4) You get free access to ProQuest historical newspapers: LA Times, NY Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post, and Atlanta Constitution.

5) You can opt to go to the national convention and rub elbows with famous people like me. OK, you can rub elbows with Bill James (except he's kind of grouchy so I wouldn't recommend that), Dave Smith (very nice guy), Rob Neyer, and the Baseball Prospectus and Baseball Think Factory gangs. The 2006 Convention will be in Seattle the weekend before Independence Day. Jim Bouton will be the keynote speaker. The 2007 Convention will be in the Mound City.

6) You can opt to join (at no charge) many of the separate research committees, which span topics from Baseball in Latin America to Origins of Baseball to Statistical Analysis.

2005-11-03 15:04:32
110.   underdog
Joe Sheehan is my new hero! You go Joe!

Meanwhile, poor Torey Lovullo was hired Thursday as manager of the Buffalo Bisons, Cleveland's Triple-A farm team. Someday he'll be managing at the major league level. But as is the case with every body else on this planet save one or two, it just won't be for Frank McCourt.

John Hart has officially been granted permission to talk to the Dodgers.

Can someone just wake me up when it's March?


2005-11-03 15:07:09
111.   King of the Hobos
108 The tournament does not catch Great Whites. The winner caught some porbeagles, which are in the same family as the Great White, but is half the size. Someone caught a tiger shark, but was too late
2005-11-03 15:08:03
112.   trainwreck
Haha just checked and read Nate's comments about John Hart. People responded to Nate's comments with stuff like I like Jim Bowden.
2005-11-03 15:09:48
113.   Marty
I love the comments over at Lasorda's (ghost-written) blog.
2005-11-03 15:12:26
114.   LAT
From the AP**Hunsicker joins Devil Rays as No. 2 baseball man.

Maybe this was discussed above but it appears the qualified canidates would rather play vice-GM anywhere else than GM in LA. Nobody wants this job. Are you listening Frank? Is the sound of the silent phones deafening yet?

The only thing worse than being hated is being ignored. Frank, you are being ignored. We lamented Depo's firing. We held our breath hopng the right-type of GM would be hired. Worse than not hiring the right GM is the fact that we can't hire anyone who is qualified becasue everyone knows better.

When I first found DT, I told the story of having played golf with some big Boston muckety-muck who knew McCourt from the Boston real estate community. His response to my inquiry about McCourt was "I have met him on a few occassions and have never done business with him, but I am fairly close with a number of people who have done deals with him and they all say they will never do a second deal with him."

Now people don't even want to do a first deal with this guy. Depo count your blessings that you are gone. Fortunatly for you you were never a fan so you can just leave. Me? I am serving out a life sentence at Dodger Stadium.

Sorry for the rant.

2005-11-03 15:18:13
115.   jasonungar05
The more and more I take all this in, the more and more I wonder if Depo didn't want to be fired. Maybe I am giving him way to much credit, but maybe he issued them an ultimatum.
2005-11-03 15:25:56
116.   natepurcell
whats everyons opinions on Larry Beinfest?

it looks like he is actually interested in the job.

Larry Beinfest> john hart?

Larry Beinfest> jim bowden?

osama bin laden> jim bowden?

2005-11-03 15:31:13
117.   slackfarmer
115 Dispite Depo's very loyal public face while on the payroll, I think over time accounts of McCourt's games will leak out. I wouldn't be suprised at all if you supposition is right on.

Maybe insisting on Collins for manager was Depo's ticket off a sinking ship with 3 years severance pay. As a Dodger fan I'm very depressed, but I think the future for Depo will be bright.

2005-11-03 15:31:59
118.   King of the Hobos
Finally, I found out what our FAs are:

A- Weaver
B- Cruz
C- none
No compensation- Saenz, Bako, Valentin

Don't plan on getting a bunch of draft picks. Anyone know if we compensated for Dessens? I tend to doubt it, but I'm not sure (he's type B if it matters)

2005-11-03 15:32:38
119.   slackfarmer
116 Ng > Beinfest = Hart > Bin Laden > Bowden
2005-11-03 15:33:58
120.   D4P
Regarding Beinfest: if the Lo Duca trade was as good for the Dodgers as Sabre-types think it was, that would seem to suggest that it was a very bad trade for the Marlins. If so, that would not seem to reflect well on Beinfest's judgment.
2005-11-03 15:35:15
121.   King of the Hobos
119 Those are my choices as well
2005-11-03 15:40:18
122.   King of the Hobos
In the player rankings, Drew is 10th in the NL OF/1B category, just ahead of Barry Bonds (who is tied with Giles)
2005-11-03 15:43:01
123.   Jon Weisman
122 - One of them computers must have done those rankings.
2005-11-03 15:46:25
124.   King of the Hobos
In an unfortunate turn of events, Kevin Towers has informed Sandy Alderson that he will not pursue the GM openings in Los Angeles or Boston. I'm sure all Dodger fans will be filled with fear now that Towers, and not someone like DePo or Theo, will be the 2006 GM for the Padres

2005-11-03 15:56:21
125.   natepurcell
how is saenz not a type A free agent?
2005-11-03 15:58:53
126.   natepurcell
or type anything for that matter
2005-11-03 16:01:57
127.   Mark
124 Wait, is that the music that I just heard slowing down? And why are all these chairs disappearing?
2005-11-03 16:02:21
128.   Jon Weisman
126 - Maybe he's Type O negative. Maybe he's a universal donor.
2005-11-03 16:02:31
129.   King of the Hobos
125 He got grouped in the 1B/OF category, so he has to compete with a lot of good players. The question shouldn't be why he's not an A, but rather why he's not at least a C, especially when Carrara is an A player! For comparison, Werth is a B player and Choi is a C in the same category

Reggie Sanders is a B, which makes him look better more attractive on the FA market

2005-11-03 16:05:31
130.   bigcpa
Consensus over at Primer is that John Hart is a downgrade from DePo. His successes were "locking guys up" which ain't rocket science and his failures were getting fleeced of young hitters with crazy upside. He made 4 trades of the Konerko/Shaw variety.
2005-11-03 16:06:16
131.   Bob Timmermann
Only 11% of the population is type B. 40% is Type A. 45% is Type 0.

4% are AB.

If you give type AB blood at the Red Cross, you get two sandwiches when you're done.

2005-11-03 16:09:58
132.   JMK
124 - Are there any other GM openings other than LA's and possibly Washington for Theo? I guess he could opt for the year off but he seemed to indicate he was interested in working this year at his press conference. I would think he could demand plenty of conditions from McCourt in order to feel more comfortable about working here.
2005-11-03 16:25:25
133.   Vishal
i'm type O negative. i thought O was rarer than that.
2005-11-03 16:28:06
134.   underdog
129. Hey, yeah, how come no one talks about Reggie Sanders over here? Is he over the hill? Talk about musical chairs, he's moved more than a family of gypsies, but has always produced well, often very well. Must be something about him teams sour on, or is he injury-prone?
2005-11-03 16:30:17
135.   Bob Timmermann
According to the Red Cross for Type 0s, it's 38% positive and 7% negative in the overall population.

Type O donors only get one cookie and some juice.

2005-11-03 16:32:21
136.   Vishal
7%, that makes me feel a little more special. thanks, bob :)
2005-11-03 16:33:50
137.   Bob Timmermann
Vishal, if I could cut open a vein and give you my blood, I would.

But since I'm type A+, I'd likely just kill you.

2005-11-03 16:38:48
138.   trainwreck
I am worried about UCLA at Arizona. Not that Arizona is any good, but I think UCLA probably thinks they are invicible right now and can come back from anything. They seem to be playing suggishly in the first half of games and that will eventually cost them a game. Plus it is at Arizona. Plus it is UCLA. Not only that but I am dreading Arizona St the following week.
2005-11-03 16:39:27
139.   trainwreck
2005-11-03 16:48:05
140.   Bob Timmermann

Why are you more worried this week than any other week?

Arizona isn't going to be able to run the ball, they will have to pass all the time. Arizona beat Oregon State in part because Matt Moore threw six interceptions and fumbled once. I don't think Drew Olson has six interceptions this year. Also UCLA hasn't lost in Tucson since 1996

Arizona State is using a backup QB and is running out of starting linemen on both sides of the ball.

Save your worries for December 3.

2005-11-03 16:50:02
141.   deburns
Vishal: I knew there was a reason I liked you at the Dunn scouting excursion; I'm O Negative as well.
The more we get into this GM mishegoss, the better Ng looks. Maybe when the music stops she will be the only person in the room.
2005-11-03 16:51:47
142.   trainwreck
I am not more worried hahaha just worried. As for December 3rd I am not even worried about that at all because it is all gravy to me if we are perfect by then.
2005-11-03 16:53:00
143.   D4P
"The more we get into this GM mishegoss, the better Ng looks."

Hmmm...I'm not so sure...

2005-11-03 16:57:37
144.   Bob Timmermann

Please tell me that you're not going down the road I think you want to go on.

Or does something that interview lead you to believe that Ng is unqualified?

2005-11-03 16:58:47
145.   trainwreck
I think he is going down that road.
2005-11-03 16:58:48
146.   D4P
Which road do you have in mind?
2005-11-03 17:00:33
147.   Bob Timmermann
Judging Ng by appearance instead of ability.
2005-11-03 17:01:47
148.   Steve
What does the Bowden-meter look like today?
2005-11-03 17:04:08
149.   ryu
Bowden, as in Terry Bowden, the former college football coach, is pronounced B-OWL-den.

But Bowden, as in Jim Bowden, is pronounced Bo-den.

Is that weird, or am I just hallucinating?

2005-11-03 17:05:49
150.   D4P
Oh. Well, it's true that I was jokingly referring to her appearance, but I don't claim that her appearance has any bearing on her qualifications as GM. To be honest, I don't claim to know much about her at all.

Sorry if I offended you in anyway. I meant no harm.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-03 17:06:22
151.   trainwreck
I have never heard Terry Bowden referred to as B-OWL-den. Only Bow-den.
2005-11-03 17:08:39
152.   natepurcell
What does the Bowden-meter look like today?

weve concluded that osama bin laden> jim bowden.

2005-11-03 17:09:57
153.   blue22
151 - I think he's implying pronunciation:

Terry Bowden as in Bow-wow-wow-den


Jim Bow-and-arrow-den

2005-11-03 17:10:50
154.   underdog
151. Me neither. But I have heard him referred to as Blowden. (As in, "that choice for GM would blow.") But maybe that was just me.
2005-11-03 17:11:27
155.   blue22
154 - And I think Ms. Ng is quite fetching. (She may frequent this site. You want her to go to Boston by calling her ugly?)
2005-11-03 17:11:55
156.   blue22
2005-11-03 17:21:55
157.   Bob Timmermann
It's a tough trade-off that women in a job like Ng's have. If they do the way of flashy dressing and get all made up (like Jamie McCourt), they catch flak for hit. If they look like a slob, they would catch flak for that.

Nobody really cared too much about how Paul DePodesta dressed for work.

The new #1 on Fortune magazine's list of most powerful women in business is Meg Whitman, who is not exactly a fashion plate like others who have been on the list like Oprah Winfrey or Carly (oops Carleton S.) Fiorina or Martha Stewart.

2005-11-03 17:25:40
158.   wkk
Part 3 of Management By Baseball is up:


2005-11-03 17:26:23
159.   Steve
If Bill Plaschke found out that Osama Bin Laden hated Moneyball, he'd recommend him to be the new Dodgers GM.

Me, I just happen to think Jim Bowden is dumber than a stump, regardless of whether he likes to bunt or not.

2005-11-03 17:28:51
160.   trainwreck
Yeah no one cares about how male GMs dress that is unless you are Dan Evans and wear a pink shirt and for some reason that becomes big news.
2005-11-03 17:31:13
161.   D4P
I agree Bob. It's a big issue for women in academia too. I read a book on beginning a career in academia and there's a chapter about what to wear to interviews. If women wear anything too revealing, they might send the wrong message and invite stares. If they dress too prudishly and conservatively, certain kinds of men might not respond too favorably.
2005-11-03 17:35:45
162.   deburns
I'm sure it will be no surprise that there is a pretty strong anti-female bias in MLB. A friend of mine who used to work for Uberroth made a point of the bias to me. On the other hand, she really liked Marge Schott, so I guess that tends to undermine the point I was making.
For me, Ng has a lot of background, she knows the personnel, the rules, appears to have negotiating skills. What's not to like?
2005-11-03 17:35:48
163.   King of the Hobos
If the reports of Epstein's interest in the Dodgers job are false, then the Dodgers would have competition. Theo has been contacted by another team to be the GM--the independent Brockton Rox. If he takes the job, his team's payroll would dip from $126.8 mil to $87,500
2005-11-03 17:39:08
164.   bigcpa
Another analyst calls the Dodgers the team to beat in the NL West next year:
2005-11-03 17:42:30
165.   Uncle Miltie
I'm sure people have heard of him, but in case you haven't, look up Joe Sewell's statistics on baseball reference. The guy was amazing.
One year he had 1 home run and 98 RBI
In the same year, he drew 64 walks and struck out 4 times in 600+ AB! Wow, this guy must have been incredible. I won't spoil anything else. You have to see his statistics!
2005-11-03 17:43:13
166.   popup
#164, I think that the rest of the National League will do just that. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 17:49:18
167.   gregsmokler
dayn perry is a BP author, and, I believe, a dodger fan...
2005-11-03 17:50:35
168.   popup
I am listening to game three of the 1949 World Series. 9th inning and Dodgers and Yanks are tied 1-1. Ralph Branca pitching for Dodgers. I don't have a good feeling about the outcome of this game.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 17:50:50
169.   King of the Hobos
164 He does list one incorrect fact. A free agent has signed, to a major league contract even. It just happens that Bowden thinks it's smart to sign minor league FAs to major league contracts. Another reason why we don't need him
2005-11-03 17:58:51
170.   popup
Red Barber is the broadcaster. Just a joy to listen to him.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:00:15
171.   popup
Bases loaded, Johnny Mize at bat. Tied 1-1 in the 9th.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:01:41
172.   popup
Mize has bases loaded single. Yanks up 3-1.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:16:59
173.   bigcpa
167 Full disclosure time... on April 22nd Dayn Perry said the Dodgers would win 100 games and could be the best Dodger team ever in Los Angeles. Ahhh, good times.
2005-11-03 18:18:08
174.   Uncle Miltie
Props to Bowden, he just made a great trade!

Vinny Castilla for Brian Lawrence and cash!

What a steal for the Nationals.

We feel very lucky that Kevin Towers isn't interested in coming to the Dodgers.

2005-11-03 18:18:13
175.   popup
Game over, Dodgers score 2 in the 9th, but lose 4-3.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:19:10
176.   overkill94
If that Perry guy is a Dodger fan, he must not keep up with their minor league talent much, he chose guys like Eric Duncan, Glen Perkins, and Adam Loewen instead of LaRoche, Martin, or Kemp for his top 10 AFL prospects.

2005-11-03 18:24:00
177.   Xeifrank
Was home (very) sick today and flipping through the multitudes of boring daytime tv shows I came upon a spanish language news channel that was showing Fernando Valenzuela pitching in some kind of Mexican league. How old is that guy? Maybe he'd like to be GM? vr, Xei
2005-11-03 18:25:20
178.   King of the Hobos
174 I didn't see that coming. If we take Bowden as GM, he should try a Peavy for Phillips trade. Towers staying in SD looks like a great thing for the Dodgers
2005-11-03 18:26:20
179.   popup
Glenn Hoffman has joined the Padres as third base coach.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:26:59
180.   trainwreck
Well this is a good sign that he is busy working on the Nationals. Hopefully means he has no expectations of being offered Dodgers job.
2005-11-03 18:28:37
181.   overkill94
Bowden vs. Towers is like watching two 5-year-olds play chess; someone's gonna win, but you can tell there isn't a lot of intelligence going into each move.
2005-11-03 18:29:20
182.   popup
XFrank, hope you feel better soon.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:32:07
183.   popup
#180, maybe he is trying to make the Padres worse. If he is headed to the Dodgers, perish the thought, maybe he can trade Guzman for Greene before he leaves DC.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 18:43:04
184.   John A
Joe Sheehan's Baseball Prospectus piece on DePo and Epstein is a must read. He says that when DePo's 2005 roster gets healthy in 2006, the Dodgers could win the NL West. But Sheehan also believes that, because of McCourt's incompetence, the Dodgers are screwed for the long haul.
Sheehan's final sentence: As good as 2006 may be on the field, the long-term prospects for this organization are terrible, and it's McCourt's fault.

I'm starting to think that the best hope for Dodger fans is continuing on-field disaster until McCourt is forced to sell.

The team will never again be truly great until the Frank McCourt boil is lanced.

2005-11-03 18:44:20
185.   Uncle Miltie
Bowden is obviously a very gifted GM who can make good trades when he feels like it. He's a Los Angeles native, so now he's motivated to impress McCourt. He doesn't plan on keeping Brian Lawrence. He's going to flip Lawrence, Guzman, Vidro, and cash for Jason Bartlett, Michael Cuddyer, and Brad Radke. Cuddyer will play 2B.

Hire Bowden!

2005-11-03 18:47:51
186.   natepurcell
lets promote logan white to GM.
2005-11-03 18:48:40
187.   godvls
138 & 140, I'm an ASU grad with an unhealthy dislike for UofA, but I'd be more worried about the Pussycats down in Tucson than I would be about the Devils. Arizona's defense is fairly good (though not last week vs. OSU) and Tuitama has totally rejuvenated their offense. It won't be an easy game for the Bruins. Bob is right about ASU. Keller is done for the year at QB, altough Carpenter (of Newberry Park/Westlake fame/infamy) was Pac 10 Player of the Week last week in his first collegiate start. The Devils are missing 5 of their 6 top offensive linemen. The DL is the healthiest it's been all year, but is still a weak link. If the Devils lose at WSU this week, they'll likely quit on Koetter resulting in an ugly scene on the Cactus Ranch message boards for the remainder of the year. Go Devils!!! ASU - ASU - ASU!!!
2005-11-03 18:53:44
188.   D4P
Are you sure that would be a promotion? As it is, White probably doesn't have much interaction on a daily basis with McCourt and her husband. That's probably a good thing.
2005-11-03 18:54:57
189.   alex 7
Does no one like Humbug's candidate?
2005-11-03 18:58:48
190.   fanerman
I think he's clearly a step below Epstein, Ng, and White. Still I'd take him over Bowden's dog in a heartbeat.
2005-11-03 19:06:13
191.   Javier Gutierrez
LOS ANGELES -- The Dodgers confirmed Thursday that they will interview Kim Ng for the vacant general manager job.- Ken Gurnick from
2005-11-03 19:06:14
192.   trainwreck
It is sad because there are plenty of good candidates out there. We just are not going to interview any of them or interview anyone like them. Just try a bunch of re-treads that are highly overrated and around because some teams are scared to go for young up and commers.
2005-11-03 19:09:53
193.   trainwreck
Please just give her the job. I have the most confidence in her amongst the candidates and it furthers prooves McCourt has no plan or direction for this team and he just went with someone in house because that is all he could do.
2005-11-03 19:10:35
194.   natepurcell
oh man what if this happens:

mccourts hires Ng, then Ng hires evans to be her assistant!

ahhhh, this could turn into an amazing reality tv series.

2005-11-03 19:15:37
195.   Javier Gutierrez
I'm still in denial that Paul Depodesta got fired, but oh well. The prospects help me get over it and hopefully whoever does the GM job will do a good job in letting them develop. By the way I enjoy this blog alot, I hardly post due to shyness I guess lol...I'm a "lurker" lol
2005-11-03 19:18:02
196.   Marty
Man, the Padres must be desperate if they're willing to get Castilla. I wouldn't trade a postage stamp for him.
2005-11-03 19:19:50
197.   King of the Hobos
194 Even better if she signs DePo as an advisor/assistant/consltant. Roy Smith can then emerge as GM after a small implosion
2005-11-03 19:21:50
198.   overkill94
Had a hard time with the Jeopardy questions today, but nailed the question about which Yankee was nicknamed Moose while all the contestants sat there blank-faced.
2005-11-03 19:22:04
199.   trainwreck
TNT and ESPN so far have been having way too many TV timeouts and they have been way too long. NBA games are not supposed to be three hours or more.
2005-11-03 19:24:57
200.   John A
197 Wasn't Roy Smith hired by DePo? As soon as McCourt figures out who he is, Smith is likely gone, too.

With a full season at Petco, Vinny ought to mash...oh...about 6 homers.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-03 19:27:47
201.   John A
198 So was the correct answer "Moose" Skowron or "Moose" Mussina? A-h-h! I forgot the "Who is..."!
2005-11-03 19:31:44
202.   Bob Timmermann
Moose Skowron stood an "imposing" 5'11".

In one of the Bill James books, he described the trade between the Yankees and Dodgers of Stan Williams for Moose Skowron as "a trade that ended up hurting both teams".

Moose Skowron was the Daryle Ward of the 1963 Dodgers. Except he had a good World Series.

2005-11-03 19:33:07
203.   popup
#198, answer could be either who is Bill Skowron or who is Mike Mussina. Not sure how Jeopardy handles it when there are multiple correct responses.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 19:35:28
204.   popup
Skowron went to the White Sox in 1964. Not sure who the Dodgers got for him.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 19:35:32
205.   John A
Um, how can I put this delicately?
In her photo, Kim Ng appears to have a moustache. Is this likely to help or hinder her with baseball's "old boy network"?
2005-11-03 19:35:58
206.   Bob Timmermann
Jeopardy writes the questions so they aren't ambiguous. There had to have been a qualifier so someone would have known which answer to give.

If the answer truly was in doubt, they would just throw out the question, edit that part out of the show out and replace the question.

2005-11-03 19:36:02
207.   D4P
Yeah. I just turned on TNT for the Laker game and there's still 10 minutes of the previous game left. 10 MINUTES!
2005-11-03 19:36:55
208.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers sold Skowron to the Senators. The Senators traded him to the White Sox.
2005-11-03 19:38:14
209.   D4P
Careful. You're treading on thin ice around here when you mention Ng's appearance...
2005-11-03 19:39:22
210.   King of the Hobos
205 She appears to have it in just about every picture I've seen of her. She could have a full beard for all I care, as long as she does a good job
2005-11-03 19:41:59
211.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I think that's the shading on Ng's photo that makes it look like she has extra facial hair.
2005-11-03 19:43:19
212.   popup
Thanks Bob. The connection between the Senators and Dodgers was rather odd in the 60s. Not sure if it was because of Gil Hodges. Don Zimmer went to the Senators as I recall. And the trade that sent Howard to DC for Osteen. Seemed like for awhile the Senators were latching on to former Dodgers. Ed Roebuck ended up in DC as well if I recall correctly.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 19:55:09
213.   bhsportsguy
Since there has no indication, e.g. "The Nationals have granted the Dodgers permission to talk to Bowden" a week into this search, does this mean that are settling for a;
a) Hart/Hershiser combo; b) in-house, Ng/Roy Smith; c) Double duty for Bobby V w/Orel as his assistant; or d) the ghost of Branch Rickey.
2005-11-03 19:56:29
214.   Bob Timmermann
The ghost of Branch Rickey? Did you people know that Branch Rickey died the day before I was born?
Where do you think his soul went?

Yep, right here.

2005-11-03 19:57:29
215.   trainwreck
Same with me and Marvin Gaye.
2005-11-03 20:05:18
216.   Xeifrank
This Heat/Pacers game better not go into OT (103-102, less than a minute to play). I would actually like to see some of the Laker game tonight, being their home opener and all... vr, Xei
2005-11-03 20:06:51
217.   fawnkyj

Wow we got a couple of celebrities in here;)

2005-11-03 20:10:34
218.   bhsportsguy
BTW - who is the most likely "Dodger source?" for any of rumours. It can't be any of the McCourts, all the PR are gone, I don't see it being Ng or Roy Smith, everything points to old no. 2.

not that it matters but I think that is why the local media crys out for someone like Bowden, who never met a microphone, camera or telephone he could resist.

It would be interesting if they chose Kim Ng because the gender issue would be a killer in the talk radio world but the Times would really have to reign in (TJ for instance) any attacks because fairly or unfairly, you can't do that to a woman that isn't Hillary Clinton, Oprah or Martha Stewart.


2005-11-03 20:12:50
219.   trainwreck
Hilary Clinton, Oprah, Martha Stewart or Jaime McCourt. No one seems to have problems ripping her.
2005-11-03 20:13:35
220.   MikeB
I apologize in advance if any of these are reposts.

"Tough to keep up with GM roulette"

"Dodgers keep Royster guessing"

2005-11-03 20:18:18
221.   trainwreck
As I read each article I get more and more depressed about the Dodgers. I need to stop reading.
2005-11-03 20:18:42
222.   King of the Hobos
Anyone famous die on May 19th, 1988?
2005-11-03 20:18:47
223.   bokonon42
The only time I've ever seen Kim Ng was during her interview with Vin Scully. She sounded smart, dressed smartly, and looked plenty fetching, I thought. In stark contrast to the woman in the BP commercial, who earnestly asks about "keeping our dependency on oil."

She's well educated and has what seems to be a lot of relevant job experience. If she doesn't get this job, how long would she hang around her current one?

Also, I think Ms. Ng could take Tommy in a fist fight. Which should be a featured Think Blue Week event.

2005-11-03 20:27:13
224.   Steve
How can you be smart enough not to resign Joe Randa, but dumb enough to trade an actually useful (albeit only useful) pitcher for Vinny Castilla?
2005-11-03 20:27:18
225.   Bob Timmermann
The most famous person I could find who died on May 19th was Jackie Kennedy, but that was in 1994.
2005-11-03 20:36:42
226.   overkill94
As for the Jeopardy question, it was more specific than I stated, they mentioned something about playing in 39 world series games or something. Forgot that there might be some confusion with Mussina.
2005-11-03 20:38:08
227.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Lawrence was useful for the Padres only when facing the Dodgers.
2005-11-03 20:43:06
228.   Steve
Crafty. Send Castilla to your soon-to-be rival, while getting rid of your new team's greatest nemesis. Jim Bowden sees in ways the rest of us can't comprehend.
2005-11-03 20:45:57
229.   natepurcell
smush parker owns steve nash. well at least, so far.
2005-11-03 20:46:06
230.   trainwreck
Like signing Christian Guzman to a 4 million a year contract when no one would give him near that. No one else does think like that. He is a genius.
2005-11-03 20:47:17
231.   King of the Hobos
228 So will he trade Wilkerson, Cordero, Hernandez, and Patterson for Phillips, Repko, the AAAA Dodger squad, and Houlton (to be nice)? That would really help us, I wouldn't complain about Bowden at that point...
2005-11-03 20:52:29
232.   Steve
I'd be willing to trade Phillips and Repko to Washington for Jim Bowden.
2005-11-03 20:56:42
233.   DaveP
Mason and Ireland both listed Bowden as their top pick for Dodger GM this afternoon. I nearly drove off the road.
2005-11-03 20:57:51
234.   Steve
They work for the media. They are paid to be stupid. I finally reconciled this fact, and I'm much happier not reading the LA Times.
2005-11-03 21:00:23
235.   DaveP
234 - I cancelled my subscription to the LA Times two years ago and go out of my way to buy any paper other than the Times when grabbing one from a stand.
2005-11-03 21:00:38
236.   Steve
Or listening to any talk radio, etc, etc.
2005-11-03 21:05:32
237.   DaveP
236 - I had a meeting in Woodland Hills this afternoon and it took 2 1/2 hrs to get back to Mission Viejo. I ended up listening to lots of pretty poor sports talk.
2005-11-03 21:09:16
238.   natepurcell
hey dave, i leave in mission viejo too... when im not at school.
2005-11-03 21:11:08
239.   sanchez101
One of the reasons i would be happy to see Kim Ng as GM would be to see the media's reaction. It may force the LA Times to actually notice what their sportswriters are saying. More likely, they wont. My hope is that Plascke (or any of the others, theyre basically the same) writes some dumbass racist/sexist article getting him fired and bringing light to the terrible state of sports journalism.
2005-11-03 21:15:18
240.   Xeifrank
Brandon Wood tied the Arizona Fall League record by hitting his 12th homer today.
He also singled in Surprise's 11-4 win. Wood's 12 homers have come in 94 at-bats. Tagg Bozied of the Padres set the previous record three years ago. - Rotoworld.Com

How many years did the Angels sign Cabrera for? vr, Xei

2005-11-03 21:17:01
241.   Xeifrank
So, how do you pronounce the last name of Ng? That is not a chinese name to the best of my knowledge. If her father is Chinese/American, I wonder if she took on her mother's last name? vr, Xei
2005-11-03 21:17:36
242.   DaveP
238 - Hey Nate. We should carpool to the next Dodger Thoughts expedition.

what do you think of Ryan Zimmerman starting at 3B next year for the Nationals now that they traded Castilla? It seems pretty amazing for a position player to have made that leap from college to majors so fast. He's the same age as Laroche right?

2005-11-03 21:18:35
243.   Bob Timmermann
Kim "AHNG".
2005-11-03 21:19:39
244.   the OZ
243 - I think that Bob is right.

If not, it's "Ayng."

But, as usual, Bob is probably right.

2005-11-03 21:21:57
245.   Bob Timmermann
If you go to google and put in ("Kim Ng" pronounced) you get a bunch of hits on the pronunciation.
2005-11-03 21:22:53
246.   Icaros
I think the next DT Expedition should be at Pac Bell/SBC/AT&T Park.
2005-11-03 21:25:56
247.   Bob Timmermann
Here is an LABJ interview with Ng. I don't know if it's been linked before:

2005-11-03 21:29:11
248.   das411
135 - They gave me pizza for being O+ here at PSU Bob. Of course Mighican State is going to beat us in the blood drive competition just like they have in everything else this year...

242 - Scary but this trade could have had a major impact on two playoff races had it been done 3 months ago.

2005-11-03 21:32:05
249.   das411
Oh, and has anybody thought about what might happen if the manager/GM combo ends up being Bobby V and Ng?

What if Valentine decides to bring his old buddy Bill Singer to LA?

2005-11-03 21:33:49
250.   Icaros
The only blood I'd accept from Michigan State is Kirk Gibson's.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-03 21:34:49
251.   natepurcell
smush parker is amazing.
2005-11-03 21:35:33
252.   Bob Timmermann

Since when have Bobby Valentine and Bill Singer been friends?

Aside from both voting against going on strike in 1972?

2005-11-03 21:37:57
253.   Icaros
Why not just give Ng the field manager job? She'd look better in the uniform than Lasorda the Hutt.
2005-11-03 21:38:34
254.   Icaros
I want to see her spit tobacco juice.
2005-11-03 21:40:01
255.   sanchez101
watching the lakers, i got a wierd feeling i hadnt felt in months. I think its called "hope". To bad it doesnt exist in Chavez Ravine.
2005-11-03 21:42:25
256.   sanchez101
253. Has there ever been any manager that didnt look terrible in their uniform? I really think they should wear something more formal, like NBA does, and the NFL used to.
2005-11-03 21:42:51
257.   Icaros
Kwame Brown is pretty enough to play in the WNBA.
2005-11-03 21:45:26
258.   natepurcell
parker has stolen the ball from nash at least 3 times tonight. wow.
2005-11-03 21:45:44
259.   Bob Timmermann
If you're getting excited about the Lakers, I think you should remember the following numbers:




2005-11-03 21:45:57
260.   Icaros
256 I totally agree. I wish they'd go back to the days of wearing three-piece suits in the dugout.

Hershiser would look alright. I don't think he's ballooned much since retiring. Bobby Valentine is also in pretty good shape for his age.

2005-11-03 21:46:30
261.   popup
Bob, thanks for the link to the Kim Ng interview. Sounds like a reasonable person. I would like to see her get an opportunity to be a GM with a better owner than McCourt.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 21:47:19
262.   Icaros
I'm excited about the Lakers because they're coached by someone who has a clue.
2005-11-03 21:51:04
263.   trainwreck
Lakers have been getting too many fouls in these games.
2005-11-03 21:51:45
264.   Jon Weisman
For those who can't get enough:

2005-11-03 21:53:01
265.   popup
Icaros, some pretty good players beside Gibson have gone to MSU. Robin Roberts, Garvey and Mark Mulder are probably the best of the MSU alums.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 21:54:31
266.   Icaros
265 Don't forget Magic Johnson.
2005-11-03 21:57:53
267.   Bob Timmermann
Here's a point to ponder.

It's often said that Jackie Robinson had to be a stellar player both on and off the field in order that other African-American players would get a chance.

So what if it turned out that he wasn't any good? Or he got hurt?

Wouldn't baseball teams still have kept signing black players anyway?

However, in the case of Kim Ng, wouldn't she have to be successful right away or else another woman wouldn't be given a GM job for years. And years. Or maybe never again. Isn't the gender barrier in many ways a much greater hurdle for baseball to surmount than the color barrier? Professional sports are so ... male. If you read a Baseball Primer thread about a Fox game, you will find a bunch of comments about Jeanne Zelasko's or Erin Andrews's breasts. Lots of stuff like that. It would be interesting to see how it all works if Ng got the GM job.

2005-11-03 21:58:39
268.   Uncle Miltie
Kwame plays defense like Ben Wallace
2005-11-03 22:02:10
269.   trainwreck
A women coach amongst the big 4 I think is the biggest step in that direction. Who knows if that will happen.
2005-11-03 22:02:15
270.   Uncle Miltie
Lawler's Law, Bob
2005-11-03 22:03:56
271.   Vishal
ng sounds like a vietnamese name to me.

[141] and thanks, don. likewise! it is don, right?

2005-11-03 22:08:01
272.   Bob Timmermann
From poking around Google and knowing very little about Chinese, it looks like "Ng" is the Cantonese version of "Woo".

Noted film director Ang Lee could spell his name Ng Lee (or Lee Ng), but he anglicized his name a bit.

2005-11-03 22:09:36
273.   popup
Icaros, I am a MSU alum. Saw Garvey play baseball for MSU; he played college football too but I never went to a MSU football game when I was a student there. I don't remember Kirk Gibson. Magic was in high school when I went back to MSU in the mid 70s. Never saw him play in high school or college, but he was very much in the news back in Lansing as a high school player.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-03 22:10:37
274.   natepurcell
odoms having a great bounce back game. great chance to get a triple double, only 2 assists away.
2005-11-03 22:11:12
275.   Icaros
I believe I'd pay a decent amount of money to watch Kim Ng kick Bill Plaschke in the crotch.
2005-11-03 22:11:30
276.   trainwreck
Kwame needs to cut down on the fouls, play better defense, and be aggressive on offense. So basically everything.
2005-11-03 22:12:18
277.   Bob Timmermann
Turning to the world's most reliable reference source, aka the phone book, my San Gabriel Valley white pages has about 3 1/2 columns of people with the surname Ng. Most of them appear to be living in Arcadia or Monterey Park.
2005-11-03 22:14:19
278.   Romyrick
I hate to talk about things like footwork but it seems Kwame has the worst footwork i've ever seen.
2005-11-03 22:14:20
279.   Icaros
273 I've heard that Gibson was a good wide receiver for MSU football. Supposedly, he was the fastest player on the team.
2005-11-03 22:15:22
280.   natepurcell
kobe is down by 7....
2005-11-03 22:16:23
281.   Jon Weisman
Any of you folks want to test this out? Set up by Dodger Thoughts reader Jim Flanagan...

2005-11-03 22:16:23
282.   natepurcell
i cringe when i watch marion shoot a jumper.
2005-11-03 22:16:49
283.   Icaros
I wish we could morph Vlade Divac's footwork, passing, and shooting skills into Kwame's body.
2005-11-03 22:17:58
284.   brandesh
no link but i got this in an email tonight...
"The Golden Baseball League today announced that Paul DePodesta has
officially been offered the position of President and General Manager of the
Long Beach Armada. The offer was faxed today to his representatives at the
Greater Talent Network. The GBL believes DePodesta to be the perfect
candidate for the job due to the combination of his two years at the helm of
the Los Angeles Dodgers, his familiarity and craftiness with small budgets,
and the Armada being the only Professional Baseball team in Los Angeles area
with a vacant GM position at this time."
2005-11-03 22:18:14
285.   natepurcell
kwame seems confused and really tenative.
2005-11-03 22:19:49
286.   Bob Timmermann
I have planted my flag!
2005-11-03 22:24:46
287.   natepurcell
oh well. lakers played hard.
2005-11-03 22:24:57
288.   Vishal
bob is always first at everything.
2005-11-03 22:26:43
289.   Icaros
No! I made a terrible grammar error on mine and I don't know how to edit it. Help!
2005-11-03 22:27:49
290.   Romyrick

Eddie Izzard refrence?

2005-11-03 22:28:02
291.   Icaros
Now I just made it worse. I hate this thing already.
2005-11-03 22:28:28
292.   King of the Hobos
284 Right after Theo had been offered to be GM of an independent team (Brockton Rox I think)
2005-11-03 22:29:18
293.   trainwreck
I have two places of residence. Can I put two so it looks like I am rich and have two homes?
2005-11-03 22:33:50
294.   Bob Timmermann
Looking through ProQuest, I learned that the first Lakers game I ever saw was on March 18, 1973. The Lakers beat the Suns 131-113. I always thought the Lakers had lost the game.

Jim McMillan scored 42 points for the Lakers. Charlie Scott scored 35 for Phoenix and Neil Walk scored 34.

Lakers coach Bill Sharman wasn't there. John Barnhill was filling as Sharman was on a scouting trip to the NIT.

The next NBA game I went to was the Clippers first game in L.A.

2005-11-03 22:34:49
295.   Im So Blue
241 Ng is definitely a Chinese (Cantonese) name. The usual Americanized pronunciation is either "eng" or "ing". (I have relatives who are Ngs.)

It's the equivalent of "Wu" in Mandarin.

Here's an article about Kim Ng in a Chinese publication -- NIHAO Magazine, an all-English in-flight magazine available on China Southern Airlines, the largest airline in the People's Republic of China.

2005-11-03 22:34:49
296.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, not an Eddie Izzard reference. Now I'm worried about what I might have said.
2005-11-03 22:36:41
297.   Romyrick
Well he is a british transvestite comedian...
2005-11-03 22:36:49
298.   Uncle Miltie
Odom chokes in the 4th quarter (big surprise), taking a couple of very stupid shots.

Odom in the 1st half
5-9 FG 10 Pt 10 RB 6 A
2nd half
2-6 FG 13 PT 6 RB 2 A 2 TO

2005-11-03 22:37:11
299.   Bob Timmermann
That is exactly what I'm worried about.
2005-11-03 22:37:40
300.   das411
252 - I seem to remember there being a lot of talk about Singer being tight with Bobby V back when that whole ugly incident happened with Ng.

Going off of Bballref, it looks like the two were teammates for 3 years in LA and then 3 more with the Angels, at the very least I would guess they know each other fairly well.

267 - Using your logic though Bob, do you think Ng has not been hired as a full GM yet solely because she is female or because there has been a better candidate for each opening? Has there been no female candidate for President/VP since before I was born because they are women or because there are more qualified men to do it?

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-03 22:43:00
301.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not much of a political pundit, but I think that there haven't been women nominated for president or vice-president because neither party though that they needed one on the ticket to win the election.
2005-11-03 22:44:28
302.   Im So Blue
301 Are we not counting Geraldine Ferraro?
2005-11-03 22:46:29
303.   Bob Timmermann

Sorry, I was referring to 300 where he said "none since he had been born."

2005-11-03 22:46:32
304.   Jon Weisman
I was one degree of separation from Geraldine Ferraro as the '84 campaign geared up. I was in "Antigone" with her daughter when I was in summer school.
2005-11-03 22:59:02
305.   das411
304 - Cool.

Think about this though: the people I really feel sorry for are the generation that is Hobos' age and younger, like my little sister. It is possible that by her 24th birthday she will still have spent her entire life living "under" either a President Bush or a President Clinton.

2005-11-03 23:02:13
306.   bokonon42
The first woman pitcher is going to have to be better than most men to stick. But I don't think that holds for front office work. How much do most fans care who the GM is?
2005-11-03 23:05:51
307.   Bob Timmermann
Judging by the hue and cry over the trade of Paul Lo Duca & Co. to Florida, I think people care a lot about the GM.
2005-11-03 23:15:18
308.   bokonon42
307- Well, yeah, but that was a computer that did that. I don't bet a majority of Dodger fans could have named the GM at any point in the last two years.
2005-11-03 23:21:13
309.   Bob Timmermann
So perhaps the Dodgers should have switched to Macs insteads of Windows machines. That's what DePodesta was shown using.
2005-11-03 23:24:42
310.   bokonon42
I'm sure I couldn't have named any between Fred Claire and Dan Evans. I wasn't following the game closely at all, during that time, but I probably could have named the entire starting line-up and the rotation during those years. I've always known the manager's name.

This is also my problem with thinking that Plaschke matters. Most Dodger fans don't read Plaschke.

2005-11-03 23:27:22
311.   bokonon42
That could be a marketing tie in. Make the Mac the new official Dodger computer. Asus has that gig now, right? Maybe they could keep Asus, but switch the front office over to Linux. This has major potential. Anybody have Drew McCourt's email address?
2005-11-03 23:28:22
312.   Romyrick
Bob what time does Vons close?
2005-11-03 23:32:18
313.   bokonon42
312- Is that a euphemism?
2005-11-03 23:32:39
314.   Eric L
310 This is also my problem with thinking that Plaschke matters. Most Dodger fans don't read Plaschke.

I think quite a few casual fans read Plaschke. My dad would probably buy his bullcrap if I didn't tell him that Plaschke was an imbecile and set him straight. Of course, my parents don't get the Times.

2005-11-03 23:41:23
315.   Strike4
Statistic, please, somebody. What percentage of general managers have been fired after seasons of 20 games below .500 or worse? Possible correlation? Maybe even a bit of an r^2 between (badly) losing seasons and firings?
2005-11-03 23:47:23
316.   bokonon42
315- I'm not going to look it up, so I probably shouldn't respond, but I can help but wonder: what difference does it make?
2005-11-03 23:48:29
317.   Steve
Forgive this little political aside, but the Judge Wapner commercial doesn't make any sense. Who wouldn't want to give Judge Wapner all the power in the world? LA could unite around him as Dodger GM. The messenger doesn't really match the message.
2005-11-04 00:01:15
318.   Strike4
316, it may be some comfort to Depodesta's supporters that there's a precedent for getting canned for bad results. Maybe it's not all irrational personality and p.r. hysteria. My humble theory is that most general managers in most business fields do get gauged by their results. Depodesta may have simply had an impatient boss who required consistently good results.

Unfortunately, firing his g.m. doesn't necessarily increase the chance for good results next year.

2005-11-04 00:01:54
319.   bokonon42
317- I got a letter from the organization that's paying for the Wapner ads, auto-penned by one Dick Armey. The envelope helpfully identified him as Former Majority Leader Dick Armey. Also getting ten phone messages a day from people I wouldn't let in my kitchen if they brought a leg of lamb and their own rosemarry. Being a registered voter isn't all it's cracked up to be.
2005-11-04 00:02:16
320.   jasonungar05
this just burns me up.... From the Royster article.

"With a healthy team, the Dodgers are not bad at all, and ownership will put us in position to get better," Royster said. "I, for one, think that they can definitely contend ... and I think that keeps getting missed in all this. Even though every team (has) to go through injuries, we couldn't overcome the (players) that we lost. The team we were planning to put out there on the field, on paper, was pretty darn good."

I worked with Bill Singer's son. He is a really cool guy.

2005-11-04 00:03:36
321.   bokonon42
318- I see. Didn't know it was about comforting the DePo fans. Carry on. Any comforting thoughts on the timing?
2005-11-04 00:10:21
322.   Steve
Dick Armey? Dick Armey? There's an entire Rogue's Gallery against 77.
2005-11-04 00:12:14
323.   natepurcell
in the latest LA times piece, "hart is a serious canidate" for the dodgers gm job. mccourt sets a formal meeting with him.

ugh, im going to puke.

2005-11-04 00:14:26
324.   natepurcell
even simers doesnt want hart

"The Dodgers have also sought permission to talk with former Ranger GM John Hart. I hope they just want to talk to him about what he could have been thinking when he signed Chan Ho Park to a five-year, $65-million contract, but I fear they might be interested in him, too, for the GM post."

2005-11-04 00:30:14
325.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know how long Allard Baird has been on the job in Kansas City, but it's a while. Bill Bavasi has had some awful years (and I think no good ones) since taking over Seattle's job.
2005-11-04 00:34:55
326.   bokonon42
325- That's not comforting. That's, like, the opposite of comfort. I don't think you understood the mission.
2005-11-04 00:44:18
327.   Eric L
321 How's about canning your GM right before the GM meetings with no apparent plan in place.

DePo fan or not, that just isn't a very comforting thought as a Dodger fan.

2005-11-04 01:24:13
328.   Strike4
Comforting rationale for the timing, hmmmm, much harder. How about McCourt hadn't fired anyone in a week, so it was simply Depo's turn.

Devil's advocate... there's still a good chance he'll pluck a relative unknown for g.m. McCourt has tended not to pay a celebrity premium for his g.m. or his players (maybe exceptions in Lowe and Gagne). The sabermetric-moneyball schtick played well for his hiring of Depodesta at first, so he may use the same rationale as a cover for hiring somebody cheap. And to keep the payroll low. I suspect McCourt won't commit to a multi-year contract again for the g.m.

2005-11-04 01:51:46
329.   bokonon42
I don't know what you mean when you say that the "sabermetric-moneyball schtick played well for his hiring of Depodesta at first." Where did it play well? Even stipulating that, how is that comforting?

I'm being a bit of a jerk to you, so I should apologize for that. But I have four problems with your post.

Problem one: asking DePo fans to look up the stats for you, so that you can comfort them with their own discoveries is like telling your crying girlfriend to buy herself something nice. With her own money.

Problem two: the variable isn't isolated. Bringing in the GM's firing introduces a new element. Each owner's response to a 91+ loss season is individual. And, since they're different, they can't, in the aggregate, mean anything specific.

Problem three: The "scoreboard, baby" theory (bad season means the GM should get tossed) isn't an argument. It's a negation of argument. It is, at root, a declaration of self-evidency. If you don't care about the argument being had, fair enough, but couldn't you just ignore it?

Problem four: The "scoreboard, baby" theory is inherantly superficial. There are lots of ways to lose 91+ games. The DePo way of doing it (cringe) had a lot to do with injuries, and a little to do with bunting, Jason Phillips, Scott Erickson, and other bad luck. Looking only at the end of the season standings is a starting place, not the final word.

And now I'm going to bed.

2005-11-04 08:42:23
330.   socalcardfan

"there's still a good chance he'll pluck a relative unknown for g.m."

You might reverse the words "relative unknown" and come up with another candidate or two.

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