i really wouldn't mind seeing ng as GM and hershiser as AGM, but it wouldn't be fair to ng to hand her the job with some sort of tacit understanding that she was just grooming him to take her job.

i wonder why nobody is hiring ron washington as manager... i still think he deserves an interview.

Hahaha another person declines to take our job.

1. Ditto everything you said. And I've also been wondering about Washington. He was considered such a hot candidate awhile back and now he's back to being a bridesmaid. I wonder if he'd want to come to LA though after they just got rid of another Beane protege - Beane may sour him against the idea if Washington is undecided, but it sounds moot anyway, since he hasn't been mentioned as a Dodger possibility for awhile.

Ng and Hershiser would be okay by me. By process of elimination now it may end up that way anyway. (Esp. since LA apparently hasn't called Florida about their GM.)

That's too bad... I wasn't too excited about Hart. Hershiser joining Ng and Smith would be fine by me. We could be like the DRays and not have a traditional GM for all I care

1
Regarding grooming Orel: I agree. But I can't see Orel remaining the AGM for long, taking a backseat to Ng, so hiring Ng as the GM and Orel as the AGM doesn't seem like a sustainable situation.

Forget who. What about when. What's the over-under on when we will name a GM? Will one be in place before, the winter meetings? How about before pitchers and catchers report? Before the season opener?

[6] i give it < 2 weeks at the most. when are the winter meetings? definitely before then.

1 All the more reason why Orel could be the #1 and Kim Ng/Tommy teach him the ropes.

Winter meetings are Dec 5th-8th and Dec 7th is the last day to offer arb to FA's i.e. Open Season for Proven Veterans.

[8] i have more confidence in ng than in hershiser, though, so i'd rather see her in charge.

Does anyone else think that the A's releasing Hatteberg is some sort of sinister prelude to Beane getting Choi from us for nothing?

11-
No because they have no need for Hatteberg and he has declined over the last couple of years. They have Dan Johnson at first and now they are looking for a power right handed bat to DH. Like Frank Thomas.

11

11
Oops - Actually, maybe the releasing of Hatteberg and the firing of Depo is part of some sinister plot to destroy the stars of Moneyball.

14-
Jeremy Brown's days are numbered.

12
I forgot about Dan Johnson. He's a pretty damn fine prospect to say the least.
14
Haha. That's a much more sinister theory than mine!

15
And the number is small...

My main concern with putting Hershiser in the front office is that since Lasorda has clearly been pushing for him to get hired, he will end up being a "Tommy guy" and Lasorda might be able to get more leverage more influence over personnel decisions through him. While Hershiser's intelligence will help him see what is in the better interest of the team, his inexperience in the front office might make him more likely to fall back on what Tommy is whispering in his ear.

Even if Ng has the title of GM, if true-blue Tommy and new-wonder-boy Orel are against one of her major decisions, she might be forced with the bleak choice of either caving in (to the detriment of the team) or being isolated in office politics and eventually driven out of town just like DePo and Theo.

19-I clearly forgot to delete a couple words when rephrasing that first paragraph. Should be "Lasorda might be able to get more leverage over personnel..." etc.

Which brings me to another topic, since "correction" posts like this one are so common (even for trivial things like spelling errors where it was clear what was intended), how about an edit post feature in the next update to the software?

19
Jon told me an edit feature is in the works.

If the Dodgers want to hire an ex-big name Dodger to be the new GM, I'd like to see them name Fernando Valenzuela. vr, Xei

just browsing the BP 2005 Annual for laughs...

Russ Ortiz- "an absolutely dismal signing, one that should terrify and anger any Diamondbacks fan."

Tommy's got a few of these deals up his sleeve right now.

Steve Finley- "wouldn't be shocking to see him fall off the face of the earth in terms of production"

Astros- "This is not a contending team."

Forgive me for being ignorant, but why do we hate Bowden again? I know he's an egomaniac and a jerk, but he actually seems to have made more good deals than bad in the past.

traded Drew Henson for Wily Mo Pena
traded Danny Burba for Sean Casey
traded Elmer Dessens for Felipe Lopez
traded Rob Bell for Edwin Encarnacion
the obvious Konerko trade

He also made a couple bad ones:
traded BJ Ryan for Juan Guzman (although it was 6 years ago and Ryan didn't emerge till two years ago)
traded Brady Clark for Shawn Estes

Obviously his signings of Guzman and Castilla were pretty bad last year, but is it possible the MLB higher-ups forced him into signing some "name" players?

I've developed a bias against Bowden mostly from subliminal potshots by rotoworld and the general hatred here, but I'd rather have some better evidence before I just blindly follow the mob.

The McCourts are getting exactly what they deserve (even though I was strongly against them hiring Hart).

The Clippers are looking really good right now. James Singleton>Smush Parker
though I think both are going to have fine seasons

Why is Lasorda talking to a Texas newspaper about who will be in the Dodger front office?

Stan from Tacoma

I hate Bowden because of what he did to Dan Evans at his first Winter Meetings refusing to talk with him until Lasorda was present. What a prick!

23- Here's what I posted on the other thread

Wow, I just found a great article on Bowden:
http://reds.enquirer.com/2001/04/01/red_bowden_makes_deals_-.html

Some quotes:
Jim Bowden is "one of the worst people in the world."
- Ron Oester, Reds coach

"We had a handshake deal that he wasn't going to trade me. Three months later, he traded me ... If I had been in the room with him, I would have killed him."
- Jeff Shaw, Dodgers reliever

"They say what goes around comes around. If that be the case, then he's going to get his some day."
- Dave Collins, ex-Reds coach

"Jim is not humble, but we're not running for prom king here. We're trying to win a division."
- Bill Reik, Reds minority owner

"Jim had a penchant for trying to eliminate people," Mr. Quinn says, "which is unfortunate as hell. It's almost to the point where the guy can't help himself. If he perceives someone is encroaching on his turf, he takes the (steps) to eliminate them."

Former Reds public relations director Jon Braude says the only time he's come to blows in his life was when he struck Mr. Bowden for screaming at him in an argument over TV coverage. About the same time, Mr. Bowden fired minor-league field coordinator Jim Tracy in a loud and public scene after they failed to reach contract terms.

Mr. Tracy, now manager of the Dodgers, is brief and cryptic when asked about his experience with Mr. Bowden. "I'm not real good at throwing stones," he says.

"I've never been a part of an organization where there was less harmony, less encouragement, (people) not supporting one another, never knowing what the true purpose was," Collins says. "You've got to understand the importance of chemistry, and I don't think he does."

The Los Angeles Dodgers also expressed interest, Mr. Bowden says, but backed off when a story was leaked alleging that he had been fired for stealing computer files.
So he's a computer hacker too! Bill Plaschke isn't going to like him.

This article is a must read.

He fired Jim Tracy? He thinks chemistry is stupid? hmmm....

Nope, still hate him.

24 Is there a good Clippers blog out there anywhere?

27 Wow what an article. Sounds like Bowden would fit right in with back-stabbing Tommy and the firing-frantic McCourts. And think of the potential upside this quote presents:

"Jim had a penchant for trying to eliminate people," Mr. Quinn says, "which is unfortunate as hell. It's almost to the point where the guy can't help himself. If he perceives someone is encroaching on his turf, he takes the (steps) to eliminate them."

Bowden could be useful to get rid of Tommy and/or the McCourts. Then we'd just have to get rid of Bowden somehow.

At this point, I can't imagine why anyone who is an established talent at GM would want the job. The only people interested would have to be someone who wants to add "Major League GM" to his resume and is willing to take the risk of being fired within a year, just to be able to at least get to that level of a front office. Otherwise, why would Epstein, Towers, Hart, Bowden, Gillick and others want the job? Sure, maybe for an increase in pay, but it's not like McCourt is going to do that. I think they are going to have to hire a first-time GM.

I will state for the record that I correctly placed the location of the high school football game I covered Friday night (Calabasas at Thousand Oaks).

I feel better now.

27 Like I said, I know about his personality problems, I am only worried about his skills. From what I've seen he's actulally one of the better GMs to be employed, I just want a reason to hate him as much as everyon I respect.

This is a link to Tom Hoffarth's column in the Daily News:http://tinyurl.com/72u4u

He likes Bowden.

And he writes like Bill Plaschke.

Is it contagious?

Heaven help us!

34 Is he really advocating Fred Claire, or is he just trying (really trying) to be witty?

And what to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern have to do with anything?

Because Fred Claire was/is a sportwriter himself and the L.A. newspaper hacks still treat him with respect, I'd say there's a good chance Hoffarth was serious.

I'm not sure how Rosencrantz and Guildenstern fit in. But since we're getting all Shakespearean, does Lady MacBeth remind you of anyone in Dodgerland? And how about Tommy Lasorda as Falstaff with a mean streak?

Maybe Lasorda is Iago. Desdemona better watch her back, she could be next.

I see that Theo isn't getting much mention any longer. I have a hunch that he'll grant the McCourts an interview and then go in with both guns blazing.

He will dictate terms to them (salary, budget, no interference, minimal Tommy, etc.) and then tell them to take it or leave it. He'll also tell them that if they go back on anything they have promised him, he will immediately resign and let the media know exactly why he has quit.

If they accept his terms, he has a year to see if it works out and if he's not happy he could easily break the contract and go elsewhere next year. If it does work and he takes the Dodgers to a championship, he's built on his already-spectacular reputation and from there can go into politics.

Hoffarth's column was supposed to be humorous in nature, not analytical. Check the older ones on the website. They're pretty similar.

Re: 37

Someone else portrayed Lasorda as Iago here.

38-

Politics? If Epstein can pull that off he can go into religion.

40 - Apparently a number of people already think he walks on water.

I've been away for a day. Did I miss something? Did Lasorda get promoted officially to VP?

42--VP or consigliere?

I would much rather see Orel as Mgr than AGM.

As someone else has pointed out, now that Hart has said he has no interest in coming, you can't expect Ng to tutor Orel. It would have to be someone long in the tooth who would be happy to stay for just a couple of years.

Seems to me that the GM position would be much harder to learn on the fly than the manager's job, especially since Orel has spent over 20 years in the dugout already.

43 Seriously, I haven't heard him being referred to as VP, until now.

39 Yeah, it was I who made the Lasorda/Iago crack a few days ago. Bob, you have an impressive memory...and I seem to be dragging DT into a rut. Maybe we need to move on to Shaw, Ibsen or Mamet analogies.

Guess I missed the irony in the Hoffarth column. These days it's hard to separate reality from farce when dealing with the Dodgers and their newspaper coverage.

46
I didn't rememeber you making the Iago reference. It was someone else. But Othello must be catching.

Following up my own line, if Othello is catching would he be better than Jason Phillips?

48- he'd certainly bring moor to the table.

48
Don't know if Othello would be better, but he'd definitely be Moor.

49
Curses, Dan, you beat me to the punch. Not only that, but I almost said "Moor to the table" as well.

mediocre minds think alike too!

52
"Mediocre Minds" would be a good name for a music group.

"Mediocre Minds" will be one of those cover groups and they will just do Simple Minds songs.

They will be doing the theme song to the long-awaited sequel to "The Breakfast Club", "The Lunch Squad".

or simple minds.
or talking heads!

Others may disagree, but I consider "The Breakfast Club" to be the cultural nadir of my generation.

56
I'm not sure whether I disagree or not. But I think "The Breakfast Club" was a fantastic movie.

Does that mean I agree or disagree?

Thankfully, the retread John Hart is not going to the Dodgers. He was quite a disappointment here in Dallas.

Having been busy over the past week I haven't been able to catch up on all the DT comment regarding our beloved franchise's disastrous GM search but I have come up with a list of pros and cons for the GM job:

Pros:
1) Tons of minor league talent...
2) Working for a large market franchise...
3) A major league team that has no where to go but up...
4) Playing in a division that should be easy to win in the foreseeable future (2-3 yrs)...

Cons:
1) Owners who are cheap...
2) Owners who think that hasty firings are a pathway to success...
3) Having to work with Tommy "the legend" Lasorda, who can turn on you behind the scenes and then lie about it to the media...
4) Having to worry about PR and marketing because the owners' 24 year old son and hot shot PR firm can't do their job...
5) Having your successor already chosen (the beloved Orel) and then having to train him....
6) Having the local news media who torpedoed the previous GM, chomping at the bit to get a piece of you...
7) Minor league talent tha is AT LEAST 1 year away...
8) "Team chemistry issues" that if not addressed will get you fired, and if are addressed will mean giving up talent...
9) A roster full of players who may or may not be injury prone, but if they get injured, it'll be YOUR fault...
10) A roster full of career minor leaguers and AAAA guys...
11) Having to hire Bobby Valentine as your new manager...

As far as the "PROS" goes most GM candidates all face situation #3, but very few situations involve 1,2, and 4. These are what make the Dodger job attractive...

The "CONS" on the other hand... other than #10 (and sometimes 1 and 2), are pretty much unique to the Dodger situation, and are probably the reason why most if not all experienced GM candidates aren't even bothering to interview with the Dodgers.

It is my gut feeling that "CONS" #3 and 5 are main reasons nobody wants the job.

54
The theme song to the long-awaited sequel to "The Breakfast Club", "The Lunch Squad" will be entitled "I Didn't (Forget About You)".

Besides the film and theater chat, there will of course be a lot of college football talk on DT today.
But what else is there to talk about? As far as I can tell, the McCourts haven't fired anyone for A WHOLE WEEK. What's up with that?

[56] nadir means "low point", so you disagree. and i disagree as well, as i liked the breakfast club. but then i don't think it's really bob's generation anyway. he's in his 40s right? it's more a movie for people who are now thirtysomethings.

I'm 39....

For the next 35 days or so....

54
But they can only cover their bad songs. Or they wouldn't be Mediocre Minds.

[63] haha, sorry bob. i didn't mean to prematurely age you or anything.

I only free prematurely age when people talk about having to finish term papers or go sit through a college lecture.

I believe the SATs are today.

Breakfast Club. Ugh. John Hughes is the Jim Tracy of directors.

Geez, why all the hate for The Breakfast Club? At least tell me you liked 16 Candles...

16 Candles had a running time of 93 minutes while The Breakfast Club had a running time of 97 minutes.

So I would prefer the former because I feel I would have four valuable minutes added back to my life.

Wow, this is a tough crowd. Let's try this again:

Revenge of the Nerds

Never seen that film, but I don't have it on my list of must sees.

71
Bob, Bob, Bob...You're killing me here. Revenge of the Nerds is a CLASSIC. (Yes, all of the letters in "CLASSIC" are capital letters)

i am usually pretty easy on movies. i'm easily entertained. however, it usually takes a lot for me to think a movie is great.

anyway, i'll bite. what's your favorite movie, bob?

As another of "Bob's generation" (about a year younger, it would appear), I'll second his disdain for the Breakfast Club. And I never even saw Sixteen Candles. Might have to do with how old we were at the time of the movie. If you were older than the characters were supposed to be, it just wasn't interesting - just more adults playing kids who acted like aduults. Same with 90210. Just boring and silly. But I can see how those sorts of things would appeal to folks younger than the characters at the time. For me, that would have been Happy Days. And "Fast Times."

[74] "fast times..." was awesome.

74
You may be right. I was 10-12 years old when those movies came out. I may not have liked them as much had I been 17-8. But I think I would have liked Revenge of the Nerds regardless of my age.

73 I'm not Bob, but I'll chime in. Greatest movie ever (as in most re-watchable) is "Dr. Strangelove." But there are lots of great movies. You;d really have to go gyenre by genre.

If you want to see the early 80s done right, I have three words for you: "Freaks. And. Geeks."

I have the box set.

Meanwhile, any chance the Dodgers will trade for Terrell Owens?

Um, I need coffee... back later.

77 Nice typing, bozo.

true.

my favorite movie ever is "the big lebowski". i wouldn't call it the greatest cinematic achievement of all time, but it's the most thoroughly enjoyable movie i've ever watched.

77,79
Don't be so hard on yourself. And yes, Dr. Strangelove (which I saw for the first time this past summer) is a great movie. Manchurian Candidate (from roughly the same era, I believe) is up there too. I need to watch that again.

I don't know if I have one favorite film, but I love "Local Hero" and "The Right Stuff" from my teenage years.

Movie talk again!? :( I'd say on the average there is about 1.5 mainstream Hollywood movies worth watching per year. The only thing worse than Hollywood movies is network TV and reality shows.
Go UCLA!
Go USC!
Go Theo!?
vr, Xei

Texas just nosed out Baylor today in Waco.

62-0.

go bears! (meh, they're down already to oregon 7-0, and freakin' ayoob just threw an interception)

I love Lebowski. "How ya gonna keep em down on the farm, after they've seen Carl Hungus"

My favorite movie, probably Treasure of the Sierra Madre

It's possible that the Pac-10 could have three teams finish with records of 12-0, 10-1, and 10-1.

85
Go Ducks! I'm not expected much from them now that the starting QB is out for the year.

If the Ducks beat Cal, they just have a trip to Pullman and the Civil War game at Eugene.

They likely can count on Matt Moore throwing seven interceptions in that one.

89
Trips to Pullman and Civil Wars are never bargains. Those are always tough games for the Ducks, no matter what.

And beating Cal is far from a sure thing either. (It's 7-7 now.)

90
Oh: and PS, the Ducks probably won't beat Cal.

66 You'll never guess what I did today...

I'm going to have to agree with Xeifrank on Movie Thoughts today. As for football, it's not baseball, which makes me far less interested

93

We could have told you that the answer is ALWAYS "c".

I see Mr. Reines in today's LAT letters getting off a blast. Nice job! I'll admit the first one made me laugh.

Since were talking about favorite movies, I gotta go with "Tombstone" as my all-time favorite.

Then again, as my chicky frequently reminds me, I have alot of "favorites".

86 Badges? We don't need no steenkeeng badges!

Hey, can you help a fellow American who's down on his luck?

Haven't seen Tombstone. Is it better than Unforgiven?

99 I haven't seen enough of Unforgiven to say if it is better than Tombstone.

All I know is that Val Kilmer's "Doc Holliday" is just about my favorite movie character ever.

I was one of those dopes that bought the original "Tombstone" DVD a few years back and then bought the super-duper special edition when it came out.

In 35 years when I am Joe Paterno's age, God willing, all I am asking for is that great hair he has going :) 21-0 at half time for the Lion's, vs. Wisconsin.

Sweet come to dodgerthoughts today and people are talking movies
80-
Big Lebowski is my favorite movie of all time (Once Were Warriors and Chopper are tied with it). I suggest buying the new little urban achievers DVD that just came out. It comes with a bowling towel and coasters and other stuff.

102 But can you get a toe with it? That's all I want to know.. and does Walter make a travesty of the DVD?

Give me any movie with Aubrey Hepburn in it. Or ... and here's one for Jon ... watching "The Graduate" during Flicks at Stanford's Memorial Auditorium.

103-
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

hmm, think I need to trade TO in my fantasy league.

Q: What does one do when one is a grad of both Stanford and USC and a game like today's comes along?

A: Root for the upset, with a bit of bittersweet pride when the Trojans win by 50 and march toward another national championship.

107-
Pretend you did not go to Stanford.

100
I'm one of those dopes who bought the Original "Office Space" DVD (though cheaply, on eBay), and who will eventually buy the super duper special edition that was just released.

I'm about 10 years old than Bob. Not only would I agree that Breakfast Club represents the nadir of his generation, but his generation represents the nadir of generations in general. So that puts Breakfast Club in a double-nadir situation.

When I was growing up, I could go see movies like both Godfathers, Last Tango in Paris, Five Easy Pieces, Dr. Strangelove, Bonnie and Clyde, the Graduate, Deer Hunter, Amarcord, the Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie, Taxi Driver, Blazing Saddles, Sleeper, the Producers... I never thought it would end. But along came Breakfast Club (and its evil twin St. Elmo's Fire) to spoil everything. Now I don't even go to the movies anymore unless it's either stop-motion animation or a documentary.

78 Freaks and Greeks was excellent. I'm so crazy about it that I wound up getting the deluxe edition. And the script books. And I've sat through 20 of the commentaries.

109-
Yeah know what you mean. I had to do that with American Psycho and Donnie Darko and others. Now I wait on movies to buy them such as Sin City. The original DVD release of Sin City had nothing on it, but I knew they were going to release a special edition later so I am waiting to buy it.

109 I should have added to my post that I also received Tombstone on VHS one year for x-mas from my parents. I own 3 versions of the movie.. darn those new fangled DVDs.

I have yet to see Freaks and Geeks, but my friend told me it is really good and the guy who created it is from the movie Heavyweights so you can not go wrong.

113
Not only are they putting movies on them new-fangled DVDs these days, but baseball GMs are using them ding-dang computers to make personnel decisions.

I like Lebowski a lot. But it might actually be my one of my LEAST favorite Coen Brothers movies. Well, certainly after Raising Arizona, Fargo, Hudsucker Proxy, and O Brother, Where Art Thou. Probably ahead of Blood Simple and Miller's Crossing (because those aren't comedies). There are a couple others, and my inability to think of them right off probably is evidence that they'd fall below Big Lebowski as well.

Go ahead, tell me I'm out of my element.

St. Elmo's Fire is like The Breakfast Club except worse and makes me wants to toss bricks around my home.

I do think "Freaks and Geeks" much more accurately captures life in the early 1980s. I can even picture myself as an extraordinarily awkward kid wanting to ask out Linda Cardellini's character and never having the guts to do it.

My wife, who is closer to my age, got me to sit still long enough to watch "Valley Girl," which is very 80s. It's not bad. It's comparable to the Breakfast Club and St. Elmo, but the big difference is that "Valley Girl" lacks any pretensions to profundity. This is just a teen movie in 80s clothes. Instead of pseudo serious mopey theme songs, the "Valley Girl" soundtrack is all dance music. The Plimsouls had two good songs, and both are in this movie.

There's a guy who writes under the byline of "JT The Brick" on MSNBC.com and he wrote his puzzling paragraph:

John Wooden is commonly referred to as the "Wizard of Westwood," so USC coach Pete Carroll should now be called the "Wizard of Watts."

So who's going to tell him that USC is really not particularly close to Watts.

The same guy who should notify author Peter Guralnick that when Sam Cooke was killed in a motel near LAX, he didn't meet his maker by getting off the freeway from the "Figueroa offramp."

What about Porky's or Fast Times. I thought those were always the best teen comedies of the 80's. Of course I was born in the 80's so I do not have the generational attachment to them.

Where is USC by the way? I know it is in a bad neighborhood.

119 120

The guy fell for the same trap of ... USC is in poor neighborhood ... black people must live there ... black people in L.A. live in Watts ... hence USC is in Watts.

Mr. Brick should visit South Los Angeles and see how many people who live there are Latino. But Latinos only live in East Los Angeles right?

If you can't even take the time to have a real name, I guess I can't expect the person to take the time to look at a map.

And if you're going to use a derogatory nickname for USC, use the one that I like, "The school across the street from the Sizzler on Figueroa".

It only offends the people who own Sizzler.

118 pretensions to profundity

Nice phrase, dzzrtRatt. And I think you've hit the nail on the head. Those kinds of movies, especially when the characters are younger than I am, rub me the wrong way. And they age pretty badly, I think.

That doesn't mean that they're inaccurate. High school students (and college students) do tend to find drama where there is none, to look for profundity. So these movies might be faithful portrayals of their subjects, but that also means that the audience for them will be limited.

Every movie DzzrtRatt named is a classic. I'm about the same age and loved those movies.

USC is bordered on the east by Figueroa, on the west by Vermont, by Jefferson on the north, and Expostion on the South. It works out to be around 37th Street or so.

Watts is the 100s and is also further east.

118 I saw the Plimsolus on holloween night at the Whiskey back in about 1984.

ehhh, make the "Plimsouls"

The neighborhood called South Park is close to there and may well encompass USC

"South Park" tends to get used to describe any neighborhood south of Downtown that the real estate agents want to sell expensive property to.

Jeff Tedford has come to the realization that Joe Ayoob is not going to win the game for him and he should the run ball more.

I really hope Cal wins this game.

Ohio State is beating Illinois 40-2 and Illinois got its 2 points returning a missed extra point for a score.

So how many points will Arizona lead by before UCLA scores today? 10? 14?

Boy, Arizona is pretty bad this year. I expect UCLA to go wire-to-wire

Kirk Herbstreit on ESPN predicted an Arizona victory.

He said Arizona had a superior running game.

136-
He has been predicting UCLA losing for weeks.

Ahhh, movie thoughts, that's what I like to see.

I like Breakfast Club, but agree that it's quite overrated. It gets some points for originality, but the story itself is a bit sappy and overblown.

I have a hell of a time picking a favorite movie, but two within the last 5 years really tickled my fancy - Almost Famous and Adaptation. I'm drawn to the former more than most by my extreme love for music and by the latter because I think the story is brilliant.

I'm trying to catch up on my movie history thanks to Blockbuster Online. Lately I've seen some classics like Easy Rider, Five Easy Pieces, Serpico, Kramer vs. Kramer, Network, The Sting, etc.

Any more recommendations from the old timers? ;)

the USC neighborhood is pretty much called exposition park, isn't it?

He's bound to be right one of these weeks.

I have a theory that it's easy to predict a big upset because very few people remember when you're wrong about it. You get far more notice for being right about an upset.

Although in many respects, you just got lucky.

It's also amazing that in just about any sport, you can go back and look through the events of an "upset" and show "why of course, it had to happen, why did it surprise anyone?"

Except for the 1988 World Series.

Looking like a typical UCLA football game already.

138-
I will give you an old movie. City Lights by Charlie Chaplin that is a really funny movie.

Does Karl Dorrell even talk to the players before half time? Scratch that the 4th quarter

So it will be 14 points today?

17

142 Hmm, a silent movie eh? I'm willing to give it a chance, but if I don't like it I think it'll be the end of silents for me.

Far be it from be to doubt the wisdom of Kirk Herbstreit it looks like.

138-
What type of films do you like? That can give me more ideas for suggestions.

146-
It actually is not silent. Chaplin did not like the advent of sound in film, though so he uses it sparingly with things like whistles and bells and at the beginning he makes the talking sound like the parents in peanuts.

The LA Times is reporting that Hart is still in the running, that the Dodgers has said that they haven't heard otherwise, and they plan to interview him early next week. No hiring will be made before the GM meetings start Tuesday.

150 - URL:
http://tinyurl.com/bd4fu

well, so much for UCLA going wire-to-wire

That was a terrible call, he grabbed him by the jersey you could see that without the replay.

I'm going to start sounding like Danny Glover in "Lethal Weapon" with UCLA football.

"I'm too old for this ...."

this oregon drive is making me nervous.

oh wait, nevermind.

Recent movies I've really liked

House of Sand and Fog
Kill Bill Vol. 2
Sexy Beast
The Limey

Hmm. Two with Ben Kingsley

Ben Kingsley's performance in both those movies are really good, but I like Sexy Beast more. Never expect to see Kingsley play a character like that and he does it perfectly. The Limey is also a very good movie. I happened to like Kill Bill Vol. 1 better than the second.

148 I like all types of movies, although older comedies seem to be lost on me most of the time (I thought Young Frankenstein was horrible).

Older movies I really liked: Serpico, The Sting, Kramer vs. Kramer, Annie Hall, Five Easy Pieces, The Elephant Man

Older movies I was disappointed with: Bad News Bears (heresy I know), Mean Streets, Young Frankenstein

Older movies I thought were pretty good: Network, Easy Rider, The French Connection, Dog Day Afternoon, Chinatown, Ordinary People, Midnight Cowboy

Wow, UCLA couldn't look much worse today

UCLA has them right where they want them.

This is why I was worried about Arizona because if you keep dancing with the devil eventually he is going to send you to hell or something like that.

GAHHH 3rd and 21 on the oregon 44, and all they need to do is get into field goal range. just move it forward a little guys.

Easy Rider has not aged well. Ack, how can you not like Young Frankenstein :) The Gene Hackman blind man scene is classic.

If you've never seen "His Girl Friday", check it out. Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell. It's in my top five all-time

159 I think I liked Bad News Bears because of that Vic Powers character. Until a couple of months ago (well, even in my unemployment I still umpire youth baseball), I've run into several parents and coaches like him.

Just a side-rant.. I've coached t-ball a few seasons and some parents get uppity like that despite my constant reminders to the parents that they need to let their kids be kids.

It seems to me that many of the parents who pressure their kids in sports never played them at a very high level. They don't realize that at a certain point (even if you still love the game), it kind of stops being fun.

159-
The Killing by Kubrick is a good old film noir. Of course all the old Hitchcock classics. Double Indemnity. Well these films are older than the era of films you are mentioning but I have not seen as many films from that era. I could name some Italian horror from that era I like and films like the Omen. You already mentioned probably my favorites from that era in Chinatown and the Graduate. Cool Hand Luke everyone loves that movie.

127--Marty,saw the Plimsouls open up for Elvis Costello at the Greek Theatre in about '87.
Peter Case still plays locally including I think at the "Coffee Gallery" near you on Lake.

117--St. Elmo's Fire is the Citizen Kane of "Brat Pack" movies, too horrible to describe. Is there a statute of limitations to make Judd Nelson et.al. ineligible to make movies?

Any votes for Ferris Bueller out there?

Don't worry Bruin fans, you have Arizona right where you want them.

167-
Wait lol are you calling Citizen Kane horrible?

I think I didn't like Young Frankenstein because I haven't seen any of the movies it spoofs so a lot of the jokes are lost on me.

The problem I find watching older movies is that I unfairly hold them to modern standards. For instance, how can I thoroughly enjoy Mean Streets when I've seen Goodfellas countless times?

His Girl Friday huh, haven't watched a movie that old yet, maybe I'll give it a shot.

I like weird movies... anyone have suggestions on those type of films?

[170] try films by peter greenaway or david lynch.

Make a tackle, it is like watching the Raiders.

170 Doesn't get much weirder than Mulholland Drive. Donnie Darko is another strange film though not as abstract.

Yeah I know Lynch well and I have seen The Cook the Thief His Wife & Her Lover (when I was young actually haha so it was confusing) and yeah that is a weird movie. I know he did a Fellini tribute with 8 1/2 Women

173-
Yeah Mulholland Drive is weird but it is actually one of the most normal David Lynch films.

173-
Not in terms of narrative but he has much weirder films.

21 - 0 Arizona? Bear Down!

(But it's still in the first half, so I expect horrible things to happen to the red and blue.)

Sex, lies, and Videotape?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

three straight passes. WHY???

oh well. this team wasn't going anywhere anyway.

go ucla, i guess. on the other hand, ucla probably doesn't want me on their side.

179-
LOL

170--Lynch's "Wild at Heart" is fairly weird, but they did use one of my cars in the filming, so I can't complain.

UCLA has run afoul of the little known regulation in the NCAA that you are not allowed to defeat two members of the Stoops family in one year.

oh good lord. 28-0 arizona.

Blue Velvet is Lynch's masterpiece IMO.

Gvette, I saw peter Case with Dave Allen and Rosie Flores a few years ago at the Neighborhood Church in Pasadena

I'm not usually very good at picking out which defensive players are sucking, but #11 (Keyes) has made a ton of really bad plays today, is he usually a starter?

As for Lynch, I've only seen Mulholland Drive, Blue Velvet, and The Elephant Man. Any other suggestions?

So whom do I direct my misplaced anger about this game:

1) Marty "UCLA should win wire to wire"
2) Kirk Herbstreit
3) My "lucky" shirt which is apparently not lucky anymore.
4) Bob Toledo
5) Paul DePodesta
6) Bill Plaschke
7) The Los Angeles Philharmonic

I can take it Bob :)

Hmmm, maybe UCLA's on to something with this whole 2:00 offense throughout the whole game. If this works out then Dorrell will have to be given many kudos.

185-
Completely agree Blue Velvet is his best.
186-
Eraserhead (weird), Wild at Heart (secondary characters are great), Lost Highway, Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me (prequel to the show).

138 --

Bonnie and Clyde; Psycho; Breathless; Jules and Jim; Chinatown; Five Easy Pieces; Petulia; The Godfather; McCabe & Mrs Miller; Lolita; A Hard Day's Night; Raging Bull; Night Moves; Last Year at Marienbad; Shoot the Piano Player; Mean Streets; Medium Cool; Dr. Strangelove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb; The Wild Bunch; Straw Dogs; Weekend; Yojimbo; 8 1/2; The Godfather Part II; Nashville; Scarecrow; Thieves Like Us; Barry Lyndon; The Long Goodbye; Band of Outsiders; California Split.

it's definitely the phil's fault. never trust a musician.

187-
Your family lol

You know who hates no huddle offenses? High school football stringers for newspapers. It's really hard to keep the stats when you're all by yourself and the plays just keep coming. You keep rooting for incompletions.

2001: A Space Odyssey; Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid; The Conformist; The Long Goodbye; L'Avventura; Blow-Up; Easy Rider; M*A*S*H; Before the Revolution; The Innocents; Night of the Living Dead.

I happen to like Dawn of the Dead a lot better than Night of the Living Dead.

190 For whatever reason Blockbuster Online doesn't carry Eraserhead, that's one I've been wanting to watch for a while.

191 Quite a list you've got there, i'll have to check some of those out. Barry Lyndon's one I've seen, it was good but a little too long. A Clockwork Orange is easily my favorite Kubrick movie, I thought 2001 sucked, The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are good though.

More for 138 --

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre; The Man Who Would Be King; Taxi Driver; The Last Waltz; Hearts and Minds; Woodstock; The 400 Blows; Persona.

If your offensive line hasn't been doing crap all day, why do you call a sneak?

Give the ball to Maurice DREW what are you doing?! %!%@!%!

Perhaps Eric Enders can drop by and tell all the UCLA fans how nice El Paso around the end of the year for the Sun Bowl.

I just got back and I see on yahoo that UCLA is down 28-0. Perfect. I know how they love to have great comebacks. Only down by 4 touchdowns. This should be a sinch.

ooh, that's no good.

Kirk Herbstreit is mocking me in the person of Mike Bell.

Will Arizona ever punt in this game? Who replaced this year's Arizona team with the 1998 Miami team?

Hallelujah!

120 - I actually know Peter, or my father does, quite well. He is a HUGE baseball fan. He'll get a kick out of this.

196 --

I happen to like "Dawn of the Dead" a lot. Very much of its time, and one of the most sophisticated independent films in memory, with smashing editing and both an opening scene and a climax that merit comparisons to "The Wild Bunch."

I think "Night of the Living Dead" deserves tremendous kudos for its 100% professionalism against overwhelming (i.e. cheap regional movie) odds. It remains genuinely scary and tripped-out despite having obviously been made on a shoestring. In some ways that works for it, IMHO -- it's my second-favorite horror film of the 1960's -- after "Psycho."

Arizona needs to win to make up for UH losing 38-28 to Nevada in Reno; two straight possessions, two turnovers, leading to two touchdowns for the Wolfpack.

The Wild Bunch is sitting on my TV right now along with Manhattan in their cute little Blockbuster Online sleeves.

TD UCLA! Finally.

Yeah Night is a great accomplishment in film making, but as a person born in the 80's the older horror movies just are not as scary to me as they should be. But that film still holds up better than most (films like Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby come to mind as movies that did not scare me in the least). Romero deserves great credit for the social statements he makes in his zombie films (even though originally he said he did not plan on the racial issues in the first film).

Yea!

Test

For those of us hopeful that we will sign Giles, this is an interesting little story about him:

http://www.rotojunkie.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66261

Is this defense serious?

138 --

Oh, and a couple more. :-)

Last Tango in Paris; Juliet of the Spirits; One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest; Don't Look Now; Yellow Submarine; Z; Burn!; The Battle of Algiers; Klute; The Last Picture Show; Sunday Bloody Sunday; The Graduate; Murmur of the Heart; Cabaret; The Leopard; The Garden of the Finzi-Continis.

Is it clear enough yet that I think this was the most important era of filmmaking? :-)

1959-1976

I don't know that they will ever make them like this again.

I'll have to bookmark this thread when I need some movies to add to my queue. I already have like 20 movies in it right now though.

Perhaps the UCLA defense is upset that they can't wear patches protesting the UC's affirmative action policies.

Or someone told them that Mike Bell is really Edgerrin James.

Don't Look Now is a good film (and notorious for the sex scene). Shivers in 75 is a good film. I am a big Cronenberg fan and I suggest all his films.

213- Jeff Kent wouldn't approve of that

So if this is the Miami game all over again does that mean we lose at ASU next week as well?

UCLA is home for the ASU game if that is any consolation.

My decision to forego attending that game and go to a concert at Disney Hall is looking wise now.

On the bright side ESPN has previewed all the college basketball programs and UCLA is one of the few teams you can check out for free. Can not wait for basketball season.

218--

I am a big admirer of Cronenberg, and have seen most of his films. (Haven't yet seen "Dead Ringers," "eXistenZ," or the new one, though.) I thought "Crash," for what it was, was damn near perfect -- beautifully controlled on all levels, from the script to the cinematography to the sound design and the score. If you didn't like it, I could understand that -- the concept had some intrinsically revolting qualities. But I couldn't imagine anyone getting a more solid and professional film out of it.

I like some of the earlier work as well. I do like "Shivers" -- which I saw with its US title, "They Came from Within," a couple of years ago. I liked "Scanners," though I thought it was underdeveloped. I liked "Rabid," with Marilyn Chambers. And I even liked "The Dead Zone."

Most of all I admire that he has never bowed to convention and has always remained...David Cronenberg. I'm just glad he's out there.

[219] i would love to see giles chasing milton bradley off the field, trying to touch him before he gets to the dugout. hahahah. too bad that probably won't happen.

you're telling me jeff kent wouldn't stand for a little grabass in the clubhouse? what a grinch.

**A rare reporting of the facts. A good, unbiased excerpt from the LAT:

"The Dodgers haven't decided what to do with Bradley, who made $2.5 million last season.
They could decline to offer arbitration (which would make him a free agent), trade him or sign him.

McCourt, who publicly supported Bradley through several problems on and off the field, is not inclined to bring him back, a source said. However, others in the organization want to give him another chance."

**And then there is this opinionated take from the Daily News:

Cruz was eligible for free agency, but hadn't filed. The move probably cements the anticipated end of Milton Bradley's turbulent stint in Los Angeles, because it likely means Cruz will be the everyday right fielder with J.D. Drew moving to center, which was Bradley's old spot.

The Dodgers are expected to try to trade Bradley. But if they can't, they are expected to non-tender him and allow him, his surgically repaired left knee and his anger-management problem to test the free-agent market.

"It's something we still have to decide on," said Roy Smith, the Dodgers' vice president of scouting and player development. "Milton has to get healthy, especially physically. There are some issues there. As far as where his rehab is right now, we're pleased."

GAH!!

This game reminds of "Flowers for Algernon".

Whatever medical treatment they gave UCLA to make them good has worn off.

Why doesn't it single the end for Werth's career as a starter?

A Cruz, Bradley, Drew outfield, I think we can all agree, would be, by far, the best in the NL West in all categories.

In Buster Olney's weblog today, he has already tabbed the Giants as the division favorites for 2006.

227 - This, of course, assuming that the Bonds, Winn, Alou outfield will never be healthy...

but I guess there's just as good a chance that the Dodgers' trio would be injuriy plagued as well..let's hope we got it out of our systems...

Regardless, this is still, BY FAR, the best defensive outfield in the NL West..maybe the NL...but then again, that's assuming Bradley doesn't lose anything after surgery. But Smith did say he was progressing nicely.

222 Yeah, UCLA's b-ball team should be exciting this year, but I think their post players will hold them back from making a serious run.

My quandary is that I've been a lifelong Arizona basketball fan due to both my parents going there and all my relatives living there. It was easy to hate UCLA's basketball team with Steve Lavin at the helm, but considering how good of a coach Howland is, my loyaltiy to both programs will be stretched a bit.

how does buster olney compare to kirk herbstreit?

223-
eXistenZ happens to be my favorite Cronenberg movie, it really sucks you into the movie and I think it is a concept that people of today can relate to well. I am also a big fan of Videodrome and Naked Lunch. I know there are problems with Naked Lunch, but once again I love weird films. A History of Violence was a really good film. It goes at a very relaxed and easy pace which works with the setting of the film. Of course things pick up when necessary. The film is extremely violent, but it is there to be realistic and to spread a message. When I saw it the theatre was filled with old people and middle-aged couples and all the old people came out with mad looks on their faces or thyey were shocked. I was standing smiling as I heard all these people complain about the amount of violence in the film. That reaction made the film that much better to me.

Fewer women swoon over Buster Olney than Kirk Herbstreit.

It wasn't that bad of a first half for UCLA. They gave up just 365 yards. And they didn't have a turnover!

232--

A great recommendation! I'll get on that immediately. Can't wait. Sounds most cool. :-)

(I didn't mention "Videodrome" or "Naked Lunch" in my posts, but I think they are both also extremely well done. Both have benefited recently from rock-solid Criterion DVD releases.)

230-
Well we got some freshmen from Cameroon who are good post players that will hopefully make a difference on the bench. They are raw but talented. Fey, Hollins, and Mata all need to improve. UCLA just needs the big men to rebound and play tough defense. Farmar, Afflalo, Shipp, and Bozeman can handle the scoring.

234-
Yeah I got the Criterion versions of the films they are simply awesome.

230 You have a problem similar to mine. I attended U of A for 2+ years, but I lived in Westwood while my mother got her MLS. Conflict is unavoidable.

138 --

Oh, and Once Upon A Time in the West.

And The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, for that matter.

And even For A Few Dollars More.

Mr. Leone was an artist...

Would this be a goalpost tearing down win for Arizona or do they do that sort of thing in Tucson?

i just bought once upon a time in the west on friday.

and i was also going to buy the "man with no name" box set, but they had a separate special edition of the good, the bad, and the ugly and i thought i'd just get that one next and work from there.

Think that 110th in rushing defense statistic has something to do with how this game is going?

Meanwhile the ASU-WSU game is going down to the wire. The Sun Devils lead by 3. Close to 1100 yards of offense in the game.

Am I missing something, or are ESPN's QB ratings for college players ridiculously high? How can Matt Moore have a 125.6 rating when he has an 10/18 TD/INT ratio?

They use a different scale in the NCAA than the NFL.

The 3-0 score in the Miami Va Tech game is great for the eyes after seeing pac-10 scores.

I don't remember any goalpost destruction while I was there, but then we had a good team the first year (1968) and not-so-good the other two football seasons which took place while I attended.

NCAA formula:

[ { (8.4 yards) + (330 touchdowns) - (200 interceptions) + (100 completions) } / attempts ]

NFL Formula is too darn hard to type:

http://nfl.com/news/981202qbrate.html

Mercy!

Didn't Cronenberg do "A History of Violence", that just came out? I was very disapppointed with that one.

Someone pull an Old Yeller and take UCLA out back and shoot em before this gets uglier.

Try this for the NCAA formula:
The NCAA formula is: [ { (8.4 X yards) + (330 X touchdowns) - (200 X interceptions) + (100 X completions) } / attempts ].

249-
Yes he did. Why did you not like it? If it is because of his son I understand because that kid was terrible and everything involving his storyline was not believable.

Oregon State is beating Washington 12-0 on four field goals.

This is one of the biggest blowouts of a team rated this high since Nebraska lost 62-20 to Colorado.

And Colorado was actually good.

253-
Nice, even though I bet inefficient offenses has more to do with that than defense.

If UCLA had made that first down in Arizona territory in the second quarter, this game would be different.

It would be 45-14.

So how far does UCLA drop in the rankings? I think they are going to be toast in the BCS.

UCLA will definitely fall out of the Top 10. Probably in the teens somewhere.

So how far down does this knock UCLA in the polls? 15th? 20th? It's not like they had a lot of big wins to fall back on.

Wow I have just heard and read everyone praising Herbstreit for picking the UCLA upset. When you say it every week it is bound to be right once. You were totally right on that one Bob.

Damn, too slow.

Just go for it. Not like it matters.

Do the announcers realize it's only the 3rd quarter?

Arizona State is going to hold on it appears so UCLA will get a chance to face another freshman QB and turn him into Johnny Unitas.

Rudy Carpenter, the pride of Newbury Park!

So, will I stop hearing about Drew Olson's heart now? That would be good.

Insult, meet injury.

266
Could you elaborate for those following online?

They can score TD's without even realizing it now.

Ahh, I see.

I was about to say "UCLA is getting blown out without turning it over..."

No one even went for the ball it was just laying in the end zone then they finally realized someone should jump on the ball ooooohhh touchdown. UCLA players did not even make an attempt to go for the ball.
On a positive note the color commentator's voice keeps cracking which is at least funny.

First time over 50 points for Arizona since a 50-42 win over ASU in 1998.

Last team to score over 50 on UCLA was, unsurprisingly, USC in 2002 (52-21)

UCLA has not lost by more than 50 points since 9/27/1930 - USC 52, UCLA 0.

The worst loss record is safe. That's 103 points to Whittier in 1920.

Just get the backups in there. We do not need any injuries.

In 1999, UCLA lost to OSU at Corvallis, 55-7.

Arizona's previous biggest margin of victory over UCLA was 35 back in 1989 (42-7)

It's the 4th quarter, time to kick it into high gear.

271 - Ah, the Whittier Poets. My home town team (my non-college residence is still Whittier).

As I like to say, "What's worse? Being a poet, or being beaten by a poet?"

I can only imagine what horrible things they will say about Dorrell at BruinsNation tomorrow.

Personally, I thought it was a fun ride while it lasted.

I thought the Pac-10 didn't have review?

Yeah this team made college football the most exciting it has been for me since the McNown years. Going to be sad to see Olsen and Lewis gone and hopefully Drew stays another year. It is going to end up like a typical UCLA season, but atleast they showed a lot more this season with all their comebacks.

252 The kid was terrible. William Hurt was laughingly bad I thought. I never bought for a second he was a mob boss. The story never explained how Viggo came to that town and how he somehow fooled everyone including his wife completely. It's just assumed he did. That really bothered me.

Yeah, plus they have a pretty good QB ready to step in next year. This team really has been overrated all year, unfortunately the whole team of destiny thing didn't come true.

281-
They explain how he got there I believe. He was on the run and he ended up meeting Maria Bello's character and fell for her or something like that. Not really hard to fool people if you have never met them before.

If they explained it, I missed it. I won't give the ending away, but I didn't find it believable either. That said, I am a Cronenberg fan.

So basically who ever we hire as GM (unless it is Theo I believe) is a stop gap till Hershiser is ready.

285 - I'd be much happier about Hershiser coming back to the Dodgers if I could be convinced that it isn't one big PR stunt and Hershiser had real talents. Wasn't there a quote where he said he'd rather be in a uniform than a suit?

All field goals in Seattle: OSU 18, Washington 3.

I'm sensing that there has been a lot of alcohol consumption among the fans in Tucson.

But I'm sure that's an aberration and UA students are always paragons of rectitude. ;-)

I think they are doing more than alcohol at UofA.

Washington scored a late touchdown to make it 18-10.

You know it is true. It really doesn't hurt that much to lose when you get blown out. It also doesn't hurt as much when the team you're rooting for has vastly exceeded your expectations.

But barring a miraculous upset of USC, UCLA will finish 3rd in the Pac-10 (USC first, Oregon second). That would send UCLA to the Sun Bowl to play the #5 team in the Big Ten. Someone like Michigan I think.

UCLA wouldn't be able to beat Michigan. I'm already picturing Breaston running and running and running past the UCLA secondary.

I agree.

UCLA would be better off getting the #2 spot and going to the Holiday Bowl and getting the #2 team in the Big 12 which would be a lot worse than the #5 team in the Big Ten.

Of course, it's no guarantee that Oregon will win its last two. Especially if they are on quarterback #3. And he's related to Ryan Leaf.

Time to drown my sorrows in a pizza. Such is what I have to turn to since I don't drink.

292-
LOL I was contemplating the same thing but with nachos.

Perhaps Stanford will learn from last week's mistakes and finish the deal against USC tonight.

OK, stop laughing.

Which do you think is the least healthy? Nachos with cheese, sour cream, pico de gallo, chicken, and beans or pizza with garlic sauce, tomatoes, red onions, and chicken?

295
The nachos. Without a doubt.

In my college days, in a fit of depression, I ate one row of Oreos out of a package in one sitting.

Don't ever do that.

yea i was at the game. now im going to go celebrate the victory! (even though i dont really care about arizona football)

And there could be another unbeaten team going down tonight.

It's going to be football 1970 style with USC-Texas-Alabama going 1-2-3.

Kyle Wright used to kick my high school's but in football. I use to see him at In N Out a lot haha.

The Virginia Tech fans don't look particularly happy.

butt

Big win for the Ducks today with their 2nd and 3rd string QBs. I saw a few highlights: I miss the gray, rainy weather.

Pet peeve:

USC says it wears cardinal and gold.
Stanford says it wear cardinal and white.

Those cardinals are not the same shade. Stanford's is much darker.

Someone is lying to me.

I demand the truth!

Hey look at that, USC scored easily.

Stanford's unis look closer to crimson.

In many ways, Va Tech is looking as bad as UCLA tonight.

But against an opponent substantially better.

Yes, but Va Tech is supposed to have an extreme homefield advantage.

Time to switch the exciting MLS Western Confernce Championship. The Galaxy leads Colorado 1-0 in the first half at Denver. Winner faces either Chicago or New England in the MLC Cup on Nov. 13.

Which will be held in Frisco, Texas!

Vanderbilt has rallied to score 14 points in a little over 2 minutes to tie Florida AT Gainesville 35-35 with :54 left.

24-0 USC after just the first quarter. i would LOVE to see a 100-point victory.

I doubt USC will score 100 points. I doubt USC will get to 60.

312
Then SC better pick up the pace. 24 per quarter isn't gonna cut it.

From reading ESPN.com, you would think Terrell Owens was Milton Bradley or something.

For those in their mid-20's like me, there's a Saved by the Bell marathon on KDOC (channel 29 on my TV). Man what a cheesy yet enjoyable show.

USC just missed the PAT! Only 37-0! That could come back to haunt them!

OK, so maybe USC will get over 60 today.

Galaxy 1, Rapids 0, less than 7 minutes to go!

316
I've never even watched that show and yet I have an undeniable hatred for "Screech."

And the comeback begins. 37-7.

I'm sure the fans in Denver are going to be turning over cars and looting after the Rapids loss to the Galaxy tonight.

Landon Donovan is very good.

I do not have the channel that gets the saved by the bell marathon, but atleast in 25 minutes I have the UFC Ultimate Fighter Finale.

322
I'm recording that right now. I haven't watched any of it yet. Did you watch the 2nd season of the Ultimate Fighter?

Yeah

So'd I. I watched the first season too. Pretty good show, for "reality" tv.

Yeah I like it a lot. I am a big UFC fan and MMA in general. Who did you like from the first season? Watch UFC in general?

Let's see...1st season...Well, I guess Forrest and Stefan were my favorites. Nate seemed like a good guy too, but of course, he didn't get to fight. I definitely didn't like Leben and Koscheck. I thought Diego was probably the cream of the crop.

As far as the 2nd season goes, I find myself rooting for Luke. I like underdogs, and he has really impressed me with not only his "heart," but also his skills.

I started watching UFC 2 or 3 years ago. It's very interesting. I love all the different disciplines and expertise. The early years look like glorified "Toughman" competitions, but these days you pretty much have to be an expert in multiple disciplines to have any chance.

I hate Diego haha I hate him so much. He says such dumb things. I think Joe is absolutely dominant. I got to root for Rashaad because he prooved the most over the show. Yeah UFC has definitely changed over the years. While the fighters are extremely better now it was more entertaining before when you would see a giant huge guy fight a small guy. Had a lot more knockouts before, but now the fighting is much better. My favorite fighter is Vitor Belfort. He used to be awesome but now he let mental problems get in his way and has lost it.

I don't like Diego either, but I think he's a great fighter. Joe is probably the cream of the 2nd season crop. I've rooted for Rashad too, especially with all the flack he took from Matt Hughes. I agree that, while the fighters are definitely much better now, the old stuff was indeed more entertaining. There was a lot more stand up and knockouts back then. Did you ever see that fight (I think it was a "Pride" fight) between Don Fry and the big Japanese guy? They just stood and pounded each other. It was great entertainment. Now it's mostly ground and pound. Seems like the wrestlers definitely have an advantage over the strikers. My all-time favorite is Randy Couture.

Missed all the sports happenings today. Sorry to see UCLA lose, but they were rather lucky to make it this far unbeaten. I see the Clips are in position for a perfect 3-0 record if they can hold off the T-Wolves. I see USC is winning huge, what channel is that game on? Can't find it.
vr, Xei

No I havent seen that fight. Yeah there is a lot more ground work now. Bonnar/Forrest fight was the greatest fight I have seen. It was the most equal fight ever.

The USC game is on TBS.

Ugh, Saved by the Bell: The College Years, they should have quit while they were ahead. Then they should have quit again before they put out Saved by the Bell: The New Class with Screech as the assistant principal.

332. Thanks Bob. How was T.O. HS friday night? I use to play tennis over there on saturdays (back in the day). vr, Xei

DP4 if you were just watching Ultimate Fighter that is a perfect example of how UFC has changed. The guy who is awesome at stand up loses because he has no ground game.

335
Actually, I'm watching it on tape. I just finished the Stevenson-Cummo match. And yes, like I said, the wrestlers have an advantage over the strikers. Whoever can take the other guy down and spend the most time on top usually wins.

It was Thousand Oaks homecoming game, so they had fireworks. But I had to park a couple of blocks away.

The best part was being able to go visit my aunt, who is my only living relative from the previous generation who is nearby.

They have FieldTurf at T.O., which is easier on the knees, but it seemed to be hard on my back. A few of the Marmonte League schools have it. I know Newbury Park has it. I think Moorpark does too.

They have it at La Cañada High, St. Francis and Arcadia High too. And Granada Hills High put it in. Once you get past the initial investment (over $1 million), you have a field that pretty much lasts forever.

Clips and TWolves tied up with 7 secs left.
vr, Xei

OT

309 - I wonder why Marcus Vick was wearing a visor tonight, could he possibly have some reason he wouldn't want people to see his eyes?

315 - Bob is reading Skip Bayless again...

My roommate watched "Saved by the Bell" reruns every day at noon my freshman year.

I ended up eating lunch in the dining hall quite a lot that year. Where they were showing "The Price Is Right" instead.

EVERYBODY on ESPN.com hates Terrell Owens. It's like a company-wide policy.

Lawler's Law in effect!

I worry about the strength of Lawler's Law when your team is ahead 100-99 with about 10 seconds left and the other team has the ball.

Lawler's Law ... survives Garnet's blown layup at the buzzer. vr, Xei

343 Never question Lawler's Law

341 - I don't think Whitlock hates TO, and the rest of them wouldn't have jobs if he wasn't in the league.

The 2005 Eagles are starting to look like the 2005 Dodgers, if Jeff Kent had tried to play through a "sports hernia" and rib and sternum injuries.

Wow, Clipps win a nail biter. 3-0!

T.Owens needs a good a@@ whuppin. I know McNabb is too classy to stoop to TO's level, but I'd love to read in the paper that McNabb called him a horses'ass and then clocked him. vr, Xei

But Xei, then the Philly papers would have to stop ripping on McNabb and focus their fire on just Owens. It'll never happen.

Actually I think it would be best if the Eagles could somehow give him the Manny treatment, dangle him out there and make it clear that they don't want to put up with his craziness so he comes back all POed (heh, imagine the headlines) and leads them to a championship.

Unfortunately, since it is the NFL there are about 20 teams out there who would gladly take him off our hands. When we get shut out by Washington tomorrow , Owens will suddenly have "gotten the message" and the league will make sure he's out there against the 'Boys on MNF.

349. Didn't they do something like that last year, cept they lost in the super bowl. Owens is definitely an "ugly American" sports jock in my books. vr, Xei

More brilliance from Scout.com tonight (you can find it on Yahoo, but here's the dumbest excerpt from the whole thing):

"Trying to put a positive and pleasant face on the situation, the Dodgers managed to get an article written that Kim Ng is a serious candidate for the GM spot. The only two lists that Kim Ng leads is the list of top female paid execs in baseball (she'd be the top female of anybody if Mrs. McCourt hadn't come in as president) and the top baseball executives without any vowels in their names."

Just trying to be funny of course. The rest of the article is the same ol same ol, but I guess we can understand the point of view anyway.

Anyway...

I saw the aforementioned History of Violence tonight, and actually liked it. But it's not for everyone. The tone is distinctly Cronenberg, and distinctly Canadian sense of humor (ie, hard to tell when it's meant to be darkly funny and/or ironic, or taken straight). I thought it was provocative enough and works best almost as a black comedy, and kinda neo-noir. Great supporting roles for Ed Harris and William Hurt. Plus, Maria Bello in a cheerleading outfit (just see it, don't ask).

Decidedly NOT a good date movie, however.

Does Steve Dilbeck pay Plaschke royalties? Why do they all have to be so unreadable? He could be telling the story of the Baby Jesus, and one would want to rip it up and send these guys back to 7th-grade English class, not to mention college-level logic or rhetoric classes.

OT (that is, not about college football), but take a look at the Matt Welch column in today's LAT Current section. It is a decent smackdown of Plaschke, Simers et al. and LA media generally. It's a shame most readers of the Sports section will probably miss it.

It's a shame most readers of the Sports section will probably miss it.

I was thinking the same thing.

The final two sentences from Welch's column deserve to be quoted here: "But if Southern Californians want an intelligent discussion of these issues, one where the truth matters more than either clumsy insults about "spreadsheets" or smooching Tommy Lasorda's behind, they know where to go: the Web. Maybe that's why Plaschke hates the Internet so much: People there are doing his job, only better."

Gee, I wonder what people he's referring to... : ).

BTW, Welch says that he has often agreed with Plaschke and Simer's complaints about DePodesta. Just not with the way they've gone about "discussing" the issues.

354 - As much as I appreciated the idea of making sure the discussion is intelligent, no matter what side you're on, I do think that by ultimately agreeing with Plaschke and Simers on DePodesta's value, the article by Welch will lose a good amount of impact.

Ultimately, the LA Times likes people complaining about their sports columnists. It makes them feel loved.

355 -- It only loses "impact" in the sense that it doesn't do much to inform LA Times readers more deeply about DePodesta. But I actually think that if he had equated offering reasonable analysis with being pro-DePodesta, his main argument would have lost impact. (I think he knew this, and that is why he even mentions that he agrees with some of the DePo criticisms.) It could easily have been seen as just a (smokescreen for a) defense of DePo, when the real issue he's interested in is the quality of the dicussion, not whether he personally agrees with the conclusions or not.

Separating the evaluation of DePo from the evaluation of the the quality of the discussion is actually essential for Welch to make his point. Trying do both would greatly lessened the impact of his main point.

The Dodgers free agent choices have made an appearance over at the Huffington Post blog:

http://tinyurl.com/7cxyl

From a high school student in LA.

As GM candidates withdraw, one after the other, Larry Beinfest may be the only guy with experience left besides Bowden. Given that choice, I would definitely take Beinfest, although I think DePo certainly got the best of him in their trade.

An interesting article about him in the Palm Beach Post today:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2005/11/06/a1b_PBP_MARLINS_1106.html

357 - You may be right.

358 - Yeah, I saw that. An Ira or Rob/Carl Reiner relation?

358
Didn't Arizona sign Tony Clark to a new contract?

359

A sports section that actually uses the style of "University of California-Berkeley"? That's weird. I must have seen Larry Beinfest play when he was at Chatsworth since he's about my age and Kennedy often matched up against Chatsworth. In those days, Chatsworth wore uniforms like the Astros old rainbow uniforms (with the right colors) and Kennedy wore the same style except in brown and gold.

It was not aesthetically pleasing.

361 -

358-Yes, I think the D'Backs did sign Clark

359-As a Cal graduate I'm always interested in getting ex-Bears jobs whenever I can

interesting coincidence: beinfest studied econ at berkeley before going to grad school at syracuse. i studied econ at berkeley and now i'm in grad school at syracuse.

i still prefer kim ng though.

Cruising through some old LA Times looking for Larry Beinfest's high school career, I realize that I didn't see him play in his junior year of 1981 because he broke his leg in the playoffs and missed Chatsworth's semifinal game against Banning. Chatsworth ended up losing the game and Banning went on to the final and lost to Kennedy.

Then in 1983, there was a college baseball column that featured a very young (and clean shaven) Randy Johnson and his exploits there. Rod Dedeaux was ecstatic because Johnson could hit 90 mph on the gun.

In 1983 Beinfest was playing at Nevada Reno.

363
One of the members of my dissertation committee got his masters degree at Oregon before getting his Ph.D. at UNC-Chapel Hill. I got my masters at Oregon and am now getting my Ph.D. at UNC-Chapel Hill.

PS: I studied econ at Oregon.

Is anyone else surprised Theo is (supposedly) interviewing with us? I assumed he would just decline to.

355 It's not what should happen. What should happen is what SiGeg wrote (quite eloquently, by the by). Once the Plaschkers see the agreement with at least some of the conclusions about DePo if not the presentation, Welch's column will be dismissed by those who should most be taking it to heart.

As a sidenote, I spent some time on Dodgers.com reading the posts over there. I don't think I ever truly grasped the hatred people had for DePodesta. I always thought the anti-DePodesta school was based in the ramblings of the mediots but it appears most fans despised him from beginning to end.

I sincerely doubt Plaschke or Simers care the slightest bit what Matt Welch thinks about them. That's not a slight to Matt. They would worry more if they were getting hammered in print by someone like Peter Gammons or Dave Anderson.

Welch isn't part of the club that Plaschke and Simers are in. While the piece is well-written, it won't matter much to Simers, Plaschke, or Bill Dwyre.

I think also that the typical fan is a lot different than people who visit here.

367 Even though most fans hated Depo from beginning to end, I beleive that the source of this hatred was the media idiots. I say this with a fair degree of certainty because (almost) all of the anti-Depo arguements over there seem to be constructed similar to the Plaschers' arugments.

369
I personally believe quite strongly that Plaschke copies the arguments of fans, rather than the other way around.

369-
All they do is talk about numbers and computers do not know nothing and bring up the trade still and sometimes call Drew injury prone. That is all they say. Anytime you say anything that is their response.

I had people arguing LoDuca and Mota were the core of the team. When a middle reliever is the core of your team you are in trouble.

366 I'm guessing this was the plan all along as Theo wanted to help the Red Sox before he left. Someone misinterpreted it as Theo had no interest, and the various members of the media ran with it.

Or the LA Times is making something up. Henson doesn't tend to make up a lot of things, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's interviewed.

The average fan still thinks that sabermetrics is a load of tripe.

A while ago there was a poll on ESPN asking what the most overrated stat was: OBP, slug, average, RBIs, or home runs.

43 percent of the people answered slugging percentage. This was followed by home runs, average, on base, and then with a mere 9 percent of the vote, RBI.

The mentality of the BITGODs is still firmly entrenched with the fans.

374
I think one source of confusion and disagreement over the value of different stats has to do with whether one is interested in outcomes or predictive value. With respect to RBIs, for example, they are arguably more valuable as outcomes than merely getting on base (given that the value of getting on base is that doing so can lead to runs). An RBI guarantees that a run was scored, while a walk (for example) only MIGHT lead to a run scored. However, RBIs are arguably less valuable than getting on base when trying to predict future runs scored, for a variety of reasons that I'm sure everyone around here is aware of.

So, as I understand it, Kim Ng and Roy Smith will be representing the dodgers at the GM meetings. Isnt it a conflict of something to have Jim Bowden dealing with the Dodgers as a representative of the Nationals while also being a candidate for the Dodgers GM position? If Bowden thinks he can get the job whats to stop him from dealing a couple good players to the Dodgers for nothing, and then the next day resigning to become the Dodgers GM?

Welch isn't part of the club that Plaschke and Simers are in. While the piece is well-written, it won't matter much to Simers, Plaschke, or Bill Dwyre.

I completely agree. They obviously are not interested in reasoned discussion and analysis anyway. It's not that they aren't good at it (although maybe they aren't), it's that they have a totally different goal for their material.

I don't think Bowden being Washington's GM while being pursued by the Dodgers is any more of a conflict of interest than the whole idea that Washington is owned by the other 29 teams.

[376] or even better, trading a couple of good players to the dodgers for nothing, and then finding out he didn't get the job :)

[377] heck, they might think they're doing their job! they're generating controversy and grabbing attention, after all.

That is certainly Simers goal, but since the pro-DePodesta contingent is so small I wonder if they even are generating that much controversy. Around here they are and other websites but nowhere else.

380

That's precisely what they are trying to do. Simers and Plaschke want you to think "Hey, there are some controversial guys in the LA Times Sports Section. I better read it. And doesn't one of them have a radio show? And doesn't another one appear on some ESPN show?"

378. true, but i dont think that excuses the situation. Really, im just hoping to find a reason that McCourt cant hire Bowden. Unfortunatly this is Selig's MLB, which means that corporate ethics must be included in baseball's antitrust exemption.

This is Major League Baseball, they only hire accountants who don't know what GAAP stands for.

The business end of baseball has little or no ethical standards.

It's a club with closed membership with disparate revenues among the members although the richest member would actually make more money if the poorer teams made more as well.

I think Simers succeeds in being controversial, but I don't think Plaschke does. Simers is good at his job. He's clearly trying to be insulting, childish, and annoying, and he does a great job of providing this fairly worthless service. Plaschke still seem to have some pretensions of being taken seriously, as well as being controversial, but doesn't do either very well.

On the other hand, every time I type his name, I hear a little Plaschke in my head giving a satisfied snicker.

Im sure this has been mentioned here before, but whats the point for sending firing Depodesta, but then sending his assistants to represent the club at the GM meeting. I seriously doubt that their course of action will be terribly different than what Depodesta wouldve done.

[386] it might be different. if kim ng is a serious candidate for GM, then one might reasonably conclude that she has some sort of plan for this offseason.

386-
Your assuming McCourt had some plan. I think McCourt thought hey we can get a GM before the meetings because everyone wants to GM the big market Dodgers, but just in case we can send Kim and Roy and it is not like we are going to do anything there anyways.

387. Thats certainly possible, but I think the situation just speaks to the idiocy of Depodesta's dismisal. Have we ever got any reason for the firing?

386 -

I don't recall McCourt ever saying that he disagreed with DePo's methods, only with the results.

I think the firing was much more the result of a perceived media advantage in getting rid of him, or something personal which developed after Tracy was fired.

If I am correct in paragraph 1 (and if I'm not, a number of you will most certainly point that out), McCourt could then easily higher another sabre leaning GM without having to explain it away (Theo are you listening?)

390
Yeah. I think it was something that happened after Tracy was fired. May have been an irreconcilable difference regarding whom to hire for the manager position, or may have been something else. But I don't think last year's record was a sufficient reason in McCourt's mind, despite what he now says.

It sure would have been nice if they had a GM in position going into next week's meetings. Everyone seems to think that with the relatively few worthwhile FA's out there, trades will happen much sooner this year.

I can just imagine someone presenting Kim Ng with a great deal and having McCourt say "let's wait until we appoint a GM and see what he (or she) thinks". Another potential Vlady in the making.

Eveyone shouldn't confuse the upcoming GM meetings with the Winter Baseball Meetings scheduled for next month, where traditionally player personnel deals are made.

As for Bowden and conflict of interst, I don't think the Nationals have any good players to send to LA...maybe Nick Johnson, but having him on the same team as J.D. Drew is taking on undue injury risk.

Bob Timmerman:

Could you give me a link that tells us how to sign up for the SABR memberships?
Much Appreciated, HomeDePo

395 It's not www.sabr.org?

i'm not bob, but this is the ordering page:

http://tinyurl.com/a5vbg

or if tinyurl doesn't work for you, just go to www.sabr.org and click on membership. eventually it'll take you there.

395

Congratulations you're now in the same organization as Bob Keisser!

people never seem to remember to include the surplus "n" in timmermann.

Even the Daily News copy desk gets it wrong even after I remind them. I've given up with them.

Calabasas High had a kicker whose last name in the roster was listed as (I think) Mammamane, but I think his jersey said Mannamame. Or something like that.

I really wished he missed his one PAT attempt.

370 is correct. This point can not be made enough.

401
Thanks for the validation, Steve.

Steve gives validation even without a purchase!

john sickles website, minorleagueball.com, has an interesting rundown on young dodger pitchers from the 1980's.

New post up top.