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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Don't Forget the Pitching, Whoever You Are
2005-11-10 14:00
by Jon Weisman

The Dodgers aren't pretty right now on the face of things. And they're not pretty on the arm of things, either.

There's a lot of talk about the Dodgers' TBD general manager needing to find more offense, and I don't argue with that. But there seems to be very little talk about improving the Dodgers' starting pitching, which is perhaps an even bigger weakness.

The Dodger offense had an OPS+ of 98, tied for 18th in baseball. Not good. Unfortunately, the Dodger starting pitching also had an ERA of 4.36 last season - 16th in baseball, despite pitching in Dodger Stadium. (As a consolation price, it was the best ERA in the division.) The team's overall ERA+ (including the bullpen) was 93, tied for 21st overall.

With free agency season underway, Derek Lowe, Brad Penny, Odalis Perez, D.J. Houlton and Edwin Jackson stand as the incumbents in the Dodger rotation. I happen to think it's possible that every one of those five pitchers will be better than they were in 2005. But that's probably optimistic. And for that matter, Perez could be traded to get that elusive bat.

Pitchers like Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton and Chuck Tiffany lurk in the minors, so long-term solutions are available in house. Billingsley and Broxton might even be ready this year - and I'm curious whether, say, Kim Ng thinks so. But let's just consider this: I don't think opening the season with Jayson Werth as your starting left fielder is much worse than opening the season with Houlton as your No. 3 starter.

These are solvable issues, as long as they remain on the radar.

Comments (185)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-10 14:27:47
1.   D4P
Glad to see I'm not the only one who's not excited over the oft-posted hypothetical rotation of Penny, Lowe, Perez, and some combo of Houlton and minor leaguers.
2005-11-10 14:32:27
2.   sanchez101
given this years free agency market, especially in regards to pitchers, it might be best to forget about it.
2005-11-10 14:35:24
3.   trainwreck
Yeah I think our starting rotation will be a problem, but it will be a lot harder to get quality pitching over big name bats. In terms of free agency there is not much out there and in terms of trades who knows what is out there and it will probably cost us a lot.
2005-11-10 14:35:53
4.   Jon Weisman
2- I don't disagree, but the free-agency market for hitters isn't much better. Most of the hitter talk has been trade talk.
2005-11-10 14:36:07
5.   blue22
SP is the position I'd like to see upgraded via trade (of prospects). Unfortunately there seems to be a real shortage of quality pitchers available via trade these days.

Would any of the Cubs trio be interesting at all - Wood, Prior, Zambrano?

2005-11-10 14:37:44
6.   Sam DC
Just as a PSA, Jon, I'd stay out of the prior thread comments until you catch up on Lost. A tidbit was commented before the writer saw your warning.

I've never watched Lost so the tidbit didn't really resonate.

2005-11-10 14:38:18
7.   Sam DC
I thought we were trading for Barry Zito?
2005-11-10 14:38:22
8.   overkill94
Considering how few truly great pitchers there are out there this offseason, anybody have any bargain picks they'd like to see signed?

Jason Johnson is one guy I think we could get for something like 2 years, $6 million. He pitched extremely well at home last year (2.76 ERA, 1.16 WHIP) in a pitcher-friendly park, Dodger Stadium could only enhance those marks. I don't know a ton about him, but he seems to be a groundball pitcher given that he pitched horribly indoors. You'd have to think that moving from the AL to the NL could improve his stats as well.

Sure he's not the #1 pitcher we're looking for, but if we could fill our staff with #3 pitchers and then make a pitch for a #1 once the trade deadline comes along (if we're in contention) I think we could sport one of the better ERAs in the league.

2005-11-10 14:41:42
9.   Telemachos
6 I'm waiting for Jon to catch up on his TiVoing so I can rebut penarol. :)

All this talk about free agents and addressing pitching v offense..... I can't really get worked up in a lather either way until we have a GM. So many variables are up in the air right now -- getting specific without even knowing who's gonna be doing the job seems premature.

That being said, I certainly hope whoever-it-is picks up at least one solid arm to get in the rotation.

2005-11-10 14:43:01
10.   D4P
Dreifort probably has one solid arm...
2005-11-10 14:50:16
11.   trainwreck
I have seen Lilly in Oakland and he can be dominating for stretches. I think Lilly can be a solid pickup for us. Expect inconsistency, but the talent is there.
2005-11-10 14:51:27
12.   blue22
10 - D4P, You're a regular over on ESPN. What's the deal with all the hostility over there?
2005-11-10 14:52:21
13.   sanchez101
8. Ive been advocating Byung-Hyun Kim, after you adjust for Coors field, he had a better ERA than jeff weaver. To sign him you would probably take a maximum commitment of 2 years for at most $8 million. Also, David Wells asked the Red Sox to trade him to the west coast a week or two ago. I like the Jason Johnson as well.
2005-11-10 14:53:25
14.   blue22
7 - I didn't like Zito awhile back, but I guess I didn't know how good he was. I was still under the impression that his post-Cy Young slump was a career trend. He seems to have rebounded nicely.

I'd try to get him, or Lilly off the FA market.

How would Washburn do in Dodger Stadium, based on his career stats?

2005-11-10 14:56:27
15.   sanchez101
14. Washburn is probably somewhat better than Lilly, but he will cost considerably more, I would guess 3-4 years at $7-9 million per year.
2005-11-10 14:56:37
16.   trainwreck
If the A's trade Zito they are going to want a pitcher who can step in immediately for them. So I doubt Zito is traded here (we would for sure have to give up Billingsley) or even traded at all.
2005-11-10 14:57:43
17.   D4P
Well, that's a good question. There are actually multiple sources of contention, including (in part)

1. Depo supporters vs. non-Depo supporters (which is roughly equivalent to Sabre-types vs. Bitgods)
2. Members of a "click" vs. everyone else
3. "Serious" posters vs. troll-type posters who just try to stir up trouble
4. Young, relatively immature posters vs. older, ostensibly more mature posters

Penarol and Nate might be able to chime in here, as they have spent their share of time on that board as well.

2005-11-10 15:00:15
18.   blue22
17 - I've posted on that board for awhile too, though I doubt that I've qualified for regular status. Seems that your point #2 seems to account for a lot of the name-calling and cheap shots.
2005-11-10 15:01:14
19.   overkill94
Washburn wants to play near his home in the midwest now, he'll most likely go to the Brewers.

Lilly is another guy I'd like to see. His price tag should be semi-cheap since his overall stats from last year were so bad, but he got better as the year progressed. His peripherals aren't ideal, but if we can get him cheap enough (2 years, $9 million?) he would be a worthwhile gamble as well.

Kim's not a guy I would target, he just doesn't work late enough into games for my liking.

2005-11-10 15:01:15
20.   blue22
18 - Disregard the first "Seems that..."
2005-11-10 15:02:02
21.   blue22
19 - Kim could be a good replacement for a Dessens-like swing man role (though not for $4M).
2005-11-10 15:04:16
22.   Penarol1916
17. You forgot those that defend anything the Dodgers do regardless of who is in charge against those that want to criticize, but what drove me away were the really immature posters, primarily on the anti-DePo side, but there were some on every side of every debate on that board. And with that, I'm off for the weekend, hopefully my son has learned that he needs to pull down his pants when he goes potty by himself, or it is going to be a long one.
2005-11-10 15:06:07
23.   D4P
It's true. Members of the click tend to be condescending toward posters that aren't in the "in" crowd, and don't hesitate to fire the insults (whether they are deserved or not).
2005-11-10 15:08:01
24.   Steve
The ESPN board is scary, and I am not faint of heart.
2005-11-10 15:10:15
25.   ryu
I know it's November, but at 4-1 the Clippers are tied with the Spurs for 1st in the West!
2005-11-10 15:11:52
26.   blue22
The aliases make that board very confusing. I swear sometimes certain threads are just one guy arguing with himself back and forth by logging in and out with different screenames.
2005-11-10 15:12:44
27.   D4P
I too appreciate the relative maturity of the DT board, but the ESPN board has its appeal as well.
2005-11-10 15:14:02
28.   D4P
Yes, that has happened before. Part of the fun is trying to figure out who's who, particularly when someone is trying to "hide" under a secret identity.
2005-11-10 15:17:38
29.   Jon Weisman
Sad tangent: Fox has cut back its episode order on "Arrested Development" from 22 to 13 episodes, and is pulling the show during this month's sweeps, according to Variety.

2005-11-10 15:20:34
30.   Bob Timmermann
That news is similar to the news that DePodesta wasn't at the dinner interview with Hershiser.
2005-11-10 15:21:25
31.   D4P
Very sad, but unfortunately, not very surprising. Most fans of the show have been expecting this for some time now. It would be nice if a billionaire-owned TV channel would put art ahead of profits for once. It's not as if Fox can't take losing some money. I doubt Murdoch's life would be tangibly worse in any way if were to lose money on Arrested Development.
2005-11-10 15:22:26
32.   dzzrtRatt
I feel like Master Pangloss. This Dodger site is the best of all possible Dodger sites. You are all, collectively, the best of all possible Dodger posters. I need no other place for my Dodger thoughts (unless Toaster crashes).

I have checked out the 'community' on the MLB Dodger site, and it seems like a sea of insulting dreck in which the occasional insightful poster struggles unsuccessfully not to drown. ESPN sounds worse.

2005-11-10 15:22:45
33.   Jon Weisman
31 - It's not so much putting art ahead of profits as it is letting worse shows air that are just as unprofitable.
2005-11-10 15:23:05
34.   King of the Hobos
Steve Phillips fake news conference is coming soon on SC
2005-11-10 15:23:33
35.   Jon Weisman
32 - Just cultivating my garden ... thanks.
2005-11-10 15:24:48
36.   sanchez101
on sportscenter they will show the dodgers version of steve phillips' "simulated press confrence". Dont expect any insightful or useful information.
2005-11-10 15:28:02
37.   student of the game
29 Jon, I wonder if the cutback of episodes has more to do with Jason Bateman's emergency throat surgery than with the show being cancelled - at least that is my hope. Although I have to say that the past two episodes- and the second season so far- hasn't been as funny as the past ones.
2005-11-10 15:29:16
38.   D4P
Regarding Arrested Development: Do any of you entertainment industry types know much about the Nielson rating system? I for one have never known anyone who had a Nielson box, and I have a hard time believing they're distributed randomly enough to accurately represent the TV-watching public.
2005-11-10 15:33:02
39.   Jon Weisman
37 - No, they'd just postpone. They theoretically had episodes to burn, anyway, because of the World Series.

38 - I worked one summer signing up Nielsen families. I can

2005-11-10 15:33:10
40.   Jon Weisman
explain more in a few minutes.
2005-11-10 15:33:24
41.   King of the Hobos
The Monday time slot sure isn't helping, Monday's episodes were 5th of the 6 major networks. It beat UPN's "One on One" and "All of Us"
2005-11-10 15:33:53
42.   LAT
I know pitching is more important than hitting and the mantra "pitching wins WS" is true notwithstanding this year. But I am tired of years of no Dodger offense.

2003 was great pitching and defense and zero offense. Not only didn't we win but it was boring. 2004, not as good pitching and a little better offense with a few highlights. Last year very boring.

I want some big hitting, free swinging mashers. (yes, I know we already missed the boat on vlad.) I don't know who they are but I want them. Ok, I know Giles is one of them. Don't think Tomme is and Tori Hunter absoultly is not.

Oh yea, I don't want to trade prospects for them I want Frank to pay $$$ for them. I do not care about "value." Value to me means saving money for the McCourts to put in their pocket.

2005-11-10 15:34:43
43.   D4P
In your face, UPN!
2005-11-10 15:36:20
44.   trainwreck
Fox needs to keep its shows at one consistent time slot. People tend to forget one shows are on because Fox moves them so often (Family Guy was successful they moved it and ratings died). I think another season after The Simpsons and Arrested Development would have gotten better ratings this season. The War at Home is terrible and I really wish Arrested Development stayed at 8:30 on Sundays. People just need to go out and buy the DVDs. That is what got Family Guy back on the air.
2005-11-10 15:36:37
45.   molokai
Problem with David Wells when someone mentioned him weeks ago is that his contract would cost around 8 million which is a lot for what you'd get. He's got incentives up the ying yang and he hit every one in 2005. He's not bad but I'd spend 1/2 the money on Kenny Rogers who might welcome a chance to pitch in a pitching park for the 1st time in his career. Rogers is a free agent and is used to pitching on bad teams. Wells isn't and hasn't pitched on bad teams. Plus Rogers is a fast starter and slow finisher. I think we'd get our moneys worth by August and when he starts to flail, Billingsly should be ready. On the plus side maybe he'll stick Plascke's pencil up his nose if he gets to close to him.

I like Kim at the right price since we won't be playing in Yankee stadium anytime soon. With Kuo, Kim, and Choi it might help Drew with his marketing plan. We could bill Kuo and Kim as the killer K's. Kim does have a rep as a bad teammate but that might only be because they know if they mess with him he can kill them many different ways. He's a serious martial arts student and unlike Chan Ho would not need to use his cleets to make his mark.

I'm also the only one who likes Scott Elarton. He not only had surgery he had to face Coors field. Now that he's several years removed from surgery and Coors he may be ready to take the next step up. He had a nice 4 game winning streak in Sept. He also was terrible in his last start that was a must win. I know the Indians want to bring him back but I'm curious what they will be offering him. Home runs is what is keeping him back. If he gets those under control he could be a usefull back end starter at a decent price.

None of these guys are aces but back end starters. For the Dodgers to compete next year Penny and Lowe have to pitch like aces and we fill in the rest of the rotation with pitchers who can get the job done. I'm not optimistic.

2005-11-10 15:36:40
46.   trainwreck
*Along with Adult Swim ratings.
2005-11-10 15:37:20
47.   blue22
37 - I agree. I don't really like the subplots or stories right now.

But they seem to have really accelerated the jokes and dialogue. You really have to keep up to get everything.

2005-11-10 15:38:20
48.   trainwreck
I thought this weeks two episodes were hilarious.
2005-11-10 15:39:46
49.   LAT
While we are speaking to the quality of DT, I should mention that I learn very valuable non-baseball stuff here too. For example, the other night my wife was watching the Food Network and I noticed the host was very hot. I had no idea who it was. Thanks to Tommy, I now know it was Giada DeLaurentiis. Very educational stuff indeed.
2005-11-10 15:39:50
50.   D4P
I rarely have anything negative to say about the show, but I have to admit that the "Rita" storyline has yet to prove that it was worth 5 episodes.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-10 15:40:34
51.   dzzrtRatt
Maybe if Arrested Development could get Barry Zito...
2005-11-10 15:42:49
52.   LAT
Upon a few mouse clicks, I have also learned she is the grandaughter of Dino DeLaurentiis, is married and went to UCLA.
2005-11-10 15:42:58
53.   blue22
50 - Yeah I'm not feeling the whole British subplot. And, although the "Surrogate" character is brilliant, I liked it better when George Sr. was on the run.
2005-11-10 15:43:52
54.   trainwreck
Come on now she's a MRF.
2005-11-10 15:44:23
55.   Jon Weisman
48 - I agree with trainwreck.
2005-11-10 15:45:49
56.   sanchez101
45. If Wells' reaches his incentives, he will be worth $8 million.
Im not sure that Elarton is any better than Houlton.
2005-11-10 15:46:03
57.   trainwreck
5 seconds into this fake news conference and I want to punch Steve Phillips.
2005-11-10 15:46:32
58.   trainwreck
He said we went with the so called moneyball philosophy and it failed.
2005-11-10 15:46:58
59.   D4P
Yeah, the Surrogate is a great idea.

That doesn't explain all the "assignments" her uncle sent her on, with her wired-hats.

So do I.

PS: What happened to Oscar? Are they just letting him rot in prison?

2005-11-10 15:48:19
60.   blue22
The writing is still terrific and it is as funny as ever, but I just don't like the storylines as compared to last season.
2005-11-10 15:48:31
61.   bigcpa
Blatant error by Phillips... he just said Gagne had Tommy John surgery.
2005-11-10 15:48:38
62.   trainwreck
Eric Gagne did not have Tommy John surgery. Did anyone do any research for this.
2005-11-10 15:49:00
63.   sanchez101
watching steve phillips talk with the dodgers logo behind him is very scarry.
2005-11-10 15:49:56
64.   King of the Hobos
Phillips' Simulated News Conference...

Moneyball didn't work so well
Kent at 2nd, flexibility at 1B, names Konerko
-pouring water- Bradley's problem is health, but he's 5 tool player. We have to work to fix the chemistry with him and Kent
He doesn't realize Gagne DID NOT have TJ surgery, so he's explaining to us what TJ is about
Starting pitching-Weaver, names Burnett, Millwood, Trachsel

That was a waste of 5 minutes

2005-11-10 15:50:02
65.   Jon Weisman
38 - In the summer of 1993, I worked for Nielsen. I was given a series of addresses that were geographically distributed around all of Washington D.C. (Not just the commonly known NW part - the whole city.) I was assigned to go to each address and invite the residents there to sign up to be a Nielsen family. They were paid $50 up front plus a nominal amount each mont they participated.

Most people, to my surprise, turned down the opportunity. The most common reason was that we had to install the meters in their television, and they didn't want anyone touching their television.

When turned down, we were to proceed sequentially, in a prescribed direction, from the house and knock on every door until someone said yes. Literally, if 1234 Elm Avenue turned us down, we next asked 1236 and then 1238, etc.

It was amazingly hard to get people to join, and most of my pay was on commission. But I did my best to sell people on the idea that they were part of an elite group determining what would be on television.

2005-11-10 15:50:29
66.   sanchez101
58. apparently the injuries didnt have much to do much
2005-11-10 15:50:44
67.   trainwreck
From watching that fake new conference I learned that evidently all we need is Steve Traschel.
2005-11-10 15:51:09
68.   bigcpa
First questioner noted we lacked punch at 1b. We were 10th in the majors in 1b OPS. Konerko's team was 9th!
2005-11-10 15:51:38
69.   regfairfield
62 Judging by his moves, I doubt he did much research at his previous place of employment.
2005-11-10 15:53:40
70.   regfairfield
65 Who would turn down that kind of power? Now if only I could rig it to watch Arrested Development 10 million times. Would that be a felony?
2005-11-10 15:54:19
71.   D4P
Thanks for the info. Your experience confirms my suspicions, i.e. that, while the attempted distribution of the boxes might be relatively random, there is a selection process that occurs among potential box recipients that (likely, in my view) causes the final distribution of the boxes to be unrepresentative of the population.

Did you happen to notice if the people who accepted the boxes were systematically different in any meaningful way from the people who refused the boxes?

2005-11-10 15:58:19
72.   trainwreck
I learned all about the Nielsen ratings last year in my history of tv class. If only I could remember more about it. I do remember there are problems in measuring homes with multiple televisions and the diversity of homes that are measured. Television ratings are flawed for sure as it is truly hard to predict what everyone watches based on a select group of people.
2005-11-10 15:58:55
73.   Jon Weisman
71 - No, I left the job feeling that it was clumsily achieved randomness. I signed up people of all locations, genders, races, social classes, ages and levels of sobriety. There was no real common thread among the turndowns, except that the people who fear you will break their TV end up with no say in the process.

By the way, if the address I was given ended up being a vacant lot or something, or if the resident did not own a TV, I got to count that as a signup. I got one of those - pure gold.

By the way, II - VCRs were also metered.

2005-11-10 15:59:13
74.   LAT
Off topic: If you have nay loved ones in Dover, PA you better get them out. At least according to Pat Robertson.
2005-11-10 16:00:22
75.   Jon Weisman
72 - Every television in the house got a meter. However, if someone left their TV on while they were in another room, there was no way for Nielsen to know.
2005-11-10 16:01:48
76.   D4P
If I can't blame AD's low ratings on the Nielsen boxes, I guess I'll have to fall back on my "People are stupid" excuse.
2005-11-10 16:03:13
77.   natepurcell
steve phillips is a moron. that similated press conference was a bummer. they should fire their fact checker personel.
2005-11-10 16:03:37
78.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
42 "I do not care about 'value.' Value to me means saving money for the McCourts to put in their pocket."

Or maybe it means saving money to pay more free-swinging mashers.

2005-11-10 16:05:52
79.   trainwreck
Hmm maybe I was thinking of a problem that existed when Neilsen first started being used. If only I had my book here with me at school haha.
2005-11-10 16:09:04
80.   LAT
78. Maybe but I would rather spend Frank and Jamie's money than trade away prospects.
2005-11-10 16:13:54
81.   Steve
You can't re-hire Jim Tracy then profess shock (Shock!) that he played Mike Edwards at third base, and you can't watch Steve Phillips and be shocked (Shocked!) that he is a buffoon.
2005-11-10 16:16:19
82.   D4P
Can you sign J.D. Drew and be shocked (Shocked!) that he got hurt?
2005-11-10 16:17:19
83.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
80 If the FA market were stronger I would agree. But it seems like our only chance to get a stud is by giving up prospects. That's fine by me, considering how seldom they actually live up to their hype. Just think what we could have gotten for E. Jackson if we'd traded him after his late-season appearance in '04. All he's done since is disappoint.
2005-11-10 16:19:50
84.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
82 Yeah, any other player would have taken that fastball off the wrist and just shrugged, I'm sure.
2005-11-10 16:47:40
85.   Steve
82 -- Surprisingly, you can, as we saw.
2005-11-10 16:48:12
86.   scanderbeg
RE: Arrested Development

I wish that Lucille would have more appearances in every plot, she always makes me laugh.

Anything with David Cross is OK by me. I think that losing Henry Winkler has hurt the show as well.

Has anyone ever watched the British version of 'The Office?'

2005-11-10 16:49:14
87.   jasonungar05
lol. dude steve your post are the best.
2005-11-10 16:51:51
88.   D4P
Yeah, Henry Winkler was great. I was sorry to see him go. His replacement (Chachie) isn't nearly as funny.
2005-11-10 16:52:43
89.   Steve
Drew is the "Who's to say" poster boy. Everybody has a dog in that hunt.
2005-11-10 16:55:29
90.   Big Game
Arrested Development will most likely get picked up by a cable outlet (comedy central, USA, IFC) network if Fox cancels it. I think IFC picked up Greg the Bunny, which was a Fox disaster a few years back.
2005-11-10 16:55:43
91.   jasonungar05
"Because of the (at least) critical success of the television show Arrested Development, the band Arrested Development, from a long time ago, has enjoyed a resurgence and new found interest that could only be rivaled by a band from a long time ago called Desperate Housewives or perhaps WifeSwap".

-David Cross

2005-11-10 16:56:07
92.   Thomas Naccarato
49LAT, She is a hot little number isn't she! (Giada DeLaurentiis)

Her show is obviously produced with the same sort of production values her grandfather was famous for; the camera angles aren't what you would normally see for a TV Cooking show. She looks errily similar to a Natalie Portman, only with a more bubbly personality, and she isn't camera shy one bit at all. You can see that when hey do these close-ups of her smiling over a sizzling frying pan filled with broiled flank steak w/tomato scallion relish and with a side appetizer dish of Salami crisps dabbed with sour cream and basil.

The girl knows how to cook. Maybe she could be a GM too!

As far as Arrested Development, just another reason to hate FOX, starting with Rupert Murdoch owning our beloved D's; to the ridiculous one-sided slant of the News Division and now, getting rid of one of the more creative if not more quirky shows on television.

Why am I not surprised?

2005-11-10 16:57:48
93.   D4P
Greg the Bunny was picked up after Fox cancelled it? I never heard that. That was a funny show. Count Blah, Tardy, and Warren DeMontague were brilliant. What is "IFC"?
2005-11-10 17:02:19
94.   King of the Hobos
I have the same questions as 93

This will be the 2nd good David Cross show prematurely cancelled, assuming it is cancelled

2005-11-10 17:05:42
95.   Thomas Naccarato
David Cross' Dr. Tobias Funke (Foon-Kay) is without doubt the best character on the show, but that isn't by a large margin. Their all great.

IFC is the Independent Film Channel. I watch it probably more then any channel on TV.

2005-11-10 17:10:52
96.   D4P
Tobias is fantastic, but I think GOB is my favorite.

I don't think I get the IFC channel. If Arrested got picked up by a cable network, would that likely mean the actors/actresses would get paid less? (If so, they may not be willing to continue working for the show)

2005-11-10 17:15:59
97.   JJoeScott
How much does G.O.B. love the Dodgers?

"It's like my heart is getting hard."
2005-11-10 17:17:24
98.   Thomas Naccarato
It all depends, AD doesn't seem to be a show that takes a lot out of an actors time, and many of them like doing the comedy because its the hardest part of acting, you can really fall on your face if you really don't know how to act it.

The segments (if you can call them that) are sort of hit and run and can be done in very few takes. Less time, improved acting chops, great writing--someone will hopefully pick it up. It would fit a fast-falling and sagging NBC nicely. It doesn't cost a lot to produce either.

2005-11-10 17:32:35
99.   D4P
NBC would probably make them add a laugh track.
2005-11-10 17:35:32
100.   Thomas Naccarato
Yes, this is true, but NBC is getting pretty desperate for some creative shows, or so I have read.

Here something sort of fun:

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-10 17:39:28
101.   D4P
Those are good. I had seen imoscar, but not the other two.
2005-11-10 17:46:16
102.   Linkmeister
Back on Nielsen, earlier this year we had to keep the diaries twice within six months. That was really odd.

Last month we had the Arbitron diaries, too.

2005-11-10 17:53:11
103.   Steve
Arbitron is radio? I did that for a month. Phil Hendrie was a happy man.
2005-11-10 17:55:17
104.   King of the Hobos
New article up on about Colletti. It hints, although it could be speculation, that we should have a GM before the start of the owners' meetings next Wednesday
2005-11-10 17:56:08
105.   Linkmeister
We had 'em for a week, and the local NPR affiliate was the sole beneficiary.
2005-11-10 18:02:46
106.   Big Game
yeah, the independent film channel has been playing the old episodes of greg the bunny, dont know if there's new ones though. there is hope.
2005-11-10 18:07:45
107.   D4P
Ah. I have all the old episodes on DVD. I remember thinking at the time it was cancelled that there probably wouldn't be another show that unique to come around again, and that it was a shame that TV audiences weren't ready for it. Then along came Arrested Development, which audiences weren't ready for either.
2005-11-10 18:17:36
108.   bigcpa
104 From that column... "The new GM will be charged with replacing Tracy." *

* So long as that replacement is not Collins, Trammell, Royster or Wotus in which case the new GM will be terminated.

2005-11-10 18:31:16
109.   Big Game
much like dodger ownership, the majority of media is dedicated to the whim of the lowest common denominator.
2005-11-10 18:37:26
110.   Steve
dedicated to the whim of the lowest common denominator.

Alex Cora lovers

2005-11-10 18:38:26
111.   D4P
Yep. You can thank capitalism and the way it defines success.
2005-11-10 18:39:34
112.   Uncle Miltie
Lawler's Law
2005-11-10 18:40:00
113.   CanuckDodger
Just to let the Greg The Bunny fans know, that series was pretty much a rip-off of a superior Canadian TV series called Puppets Who Kill, which started before Greg the Bunny and is still producing new episodes for Canadian TV. Before the producer of Puppets Who Kill sold his idea to a Canadian TV channel, he pitched the show to Fox in the U.S. Fox said no thanks, then they turned around and created their own comedy show about puppets interacting with "normal people." Fox should have been sued.
2005-11-10 18:41:59
114.   D4P
Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, copying other shows seems to be the norm these days. Hopefully Arrested Development isn't a-rip off...
2005-11-10 18:47:19
115.   molokai
5-1 and headed to Philly with the best record in the West.
2005-11-10 18:47:32
116.   Steve
Who's this La Cava guy?
2005-11-10 19:01:27
117.   CanuckDodger
Another U.S. series that is a rip-off of a Canadian series is CBS's Cold Case. The exact premise -- a police department division investigates old, unsolved murders -- is taken from a Canadian show that started in the 90's called Cold Squad. The lead character in Cold Squad was a woman with shortish blonde hair, and Cold Case even copied that. Where everything gets really interesting is that some investigation was done and it was found that the woman who sold Cold Case to CBS is an American who briefly studied in Canada and classmates from her film class remember her asking about popular Canadian TV shows and being told all about Cold Squad. I know that the producers of Cold Squad did retain lawyers in Los Angeles a few years ago and wanted to sue CBS, but I never heard anything beyond that. Perhaps an out-of-court settlement was reached, or maybe litigation is pending.
2005-11-10 19:03:08
118.   MikeLumHarris
Arrested Development was always facing an uphill battle this season. When the season was announced last spring AD was only on the schedule until January. It would have had to do a lot better this season to get picked up for the full year and it obviously hasn't done that.

As Samuel Goldwyn said, 'If the people won't come, nothing will stop them.'

2005-11-10 19:05:26
119.   natepurcell
if colletti is hired, i would think theres a higher % that ron wootus is hired.

would this be good for the dodgers? Two of the hated ones as dodgers GM and manager? ughhh.

2005-11-10 19:31:05
120.   dzzrtRatt
119 It does sort of have the feel of some noxious cell dividing and the evil twin colonizing its neighbor. Perhaps once he's here, Colletti will suggest renaming the team the Giants II of Los Angeles.

Okay, I'm hallucinating. Truly, I can think of no more encouraging development than the next generation of Giants' leadership defecting to the Dodgers. It is a vote of confidence in our future, and of no-confidence in theirs.

2005-11-10 19:46:26
121.   bokonon42
92- Are you the guy who casted Jennifer Love Hewitt to play Audrey Hepburn? Because if so, then it finally makes sense. Natalie Portman?
2005-11-10 19:50:53
122.   natepurcell
i use to think jennifer love hewitt was cute. i had a crush on her, i even got a gf freshmne yr of HS that looked like her.

im a big kiera knightly fan.

2005-11-10 19:51:50
123.   D4P
Not to mention one of the most hated ones of all at 2B.
2005-11-10 19:57:28
124.   tjshere
119 I realize this is totally irrational on my part, but my hatred for the Giants runs so deep I want NO part of either Coletti or Wotus. I wanted to wring Depo's neck when he even mentioned Wotus. I'd rather have Tracy back than see him in a Dodger uniform.

Memories of Juan Marical, I guess.

2005-11-10 19:58:13
125.   tjshere
Hey! Who stole my H???
2005-11-10 19:58:40
126.   D4P
Does your hatred for the Giants run so deep that you want no part of Jeff Kent in a Dodger uniform?
2005-11-10 20:01:56
127.   D4P
BTW: Does anyone else feel like the fact that McCourt is interviewing Coletti seems to suggest that he doesn't really plan on giving the GM job to Ng?
2005-11-10 20:12:34
128.   tjshere
126 No. Kent is a guy who played for the Giants for a while. He's not synonymous with the Giants.

I WAS bummed when bulldog signed with them though.

2005-11-10 20:25:56
129.   Izzy
127. Not to me. How would you feel if you had a job opening and nobody wanted to work for you? So, in the end he would probally interview Dolly Parton if he had to, and then hire Ng. He's desperate. lol
2005-11-10 20:28:55
130.   dzzrtRatt
127 The reverse. The McCourts and their handlers don't want it to look like Kim Ng backed into the job because no one else would interview for it. That's why they keep insisting John Hart got interviewed, even when he says he wasn't. So if Colletti will do them the favor of doing a token interview, they can say Ng beat tough competition and earned the job on her merits. That makes the McCourts look highly enlightened and evolved--they hope.
2005-11-10 20:29:58
131.   D4P
I bet Tommy likes Dolly Parton.
2005-11-10 20:33:11
132.   D4P
Hmmm...the problem with that approach is that, rather than McCourt and her husband rejecting the candidates that are being interviewed, and then hiring Ng because she was the "best" candidate, the candidates are withdrawing themselves from consideration. If that keeps happening, and they end up hiring Ng, then it will look like she got the job because no one wanted it after interviewing with McCourt and her husband.
2005-11-10 20:40:40
133.   King of the Hobos
The Padres are currently considering moving the fence in right-center from 411 feet to about 395 feet. Maybe they're trying to convince Giles to stay?
2005-11-10 20:46:00
134.   Xeifrank
Seems like pitching is less predictable year to year than hitting is. In the NL West I'll take my chances with the Dodgers pitching. Remember all we have to do is win the NL West to get a seat at the craps table. I would like to see Billingsley make the jump to the starting rotation early in the year. Broxton is another possibility, but he might be better out of the bullpen, but it wouldn't hurt to give him a shot at the rotation too. If the Dodgers sign a free agent pitcher (whoever that may be), I'd want it to be nothing more than an innings eater and someone just keeping the mound warm for the youngins.
vr, Xei
2005-11-10 20:48:13
135.   Xeifrank
Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but Bowden was on 710AM radio with Mason and Ireland this afternoon. Bowden said he hadn't been contacted by the McCourts (thank god) yet, but if he was he'd definitely be interested in the job (have a beer Steve). He made some dumb comments about how obviously Depodesta's philosophy didn't work out and it needed to be scrapped (have another beer Steve).
vr, Xei
2005-11-10 20:56:51
136.   King of the Hobos
Javier Vazquez has used his right to demand a trade according to ESPNews (I got it through rotoworld). While this could be meaningless, it could also mean Arizona will get rid of their best starting pitcher. I bet they wish Russ Ortiz had the right to demand a trade, so they could lose his salary when they can't trade him
2005-11-10 20:59:14
137.   Xeifrank
Are Clipper playoff tickets being printed yet? Perhaps Bob has a playoff ticket printing machine down in his basement with his map collection. :) vr, Xei
2005-11-10 20:59:39
138.   natepurcell
lets trade them odalis for vasquez!
2005-11-10 21:00:00
139.   molokai
crazy rich families - arrested development - my man godfrey
2005-11-10 21:00:31
140.   molokai
He wants to go East not West.
2005-11-10 21:02:20
141.   King of the Hobos
138 There are 6 teams he can request not to be traded to, and LA is almost guarunteed to be one of them. He wants to get closer to Puerto Rico, as molokai mentioned
2005-11-10 21:07:20
142.   natepurcell
dodgers ST= florida.

thats close enough :)

2005-11-10 21:11:10
143.   Steve
That's not meaningless at all. That was one of the reasons DePodesta tubed that trade. Vazquez said all the right things (I'll play wherever, garbage, garbage, garbage) at the time, and DePodesta was pilloried, even though The Great Lasorda made effectively the same mistake with Jeff Freaking Shaw and is now the last man left in Dodger Stadium.
2005-11-10 21:15:24
144.   King of the Hobos
Meaningless in my post referred to the fact that Vazguez could just decide to stay in Arizona and make $12 mil a year
2005-11-10 21:18:41
145.   Steve
My post simply referred to yours KotH, it wasn't meant for you. It was meant for the weasels who on one hand complain that Brad Penny has arm trouble, than snivel on the other hand when DePodesta tries to trade him.
2005-11-10 21:33:12
146.   Kayaker7
A blast from the past. Jim Tracy will try to change the culture in the Pirates clubhouse.

2005-11-10 21:36:45
147.   Kayaker7
146 I posted that after reading only a couple of paragraphs from the chat, but reading it further, it is very revealing:

JT: "...there is a game within the game that we play each day. It involves little nuances like hitting a cutoff man, getting a bunt down, advancing a runner."

clevelandrocks48: What influenced you the most when you decided to take this job?

Tracy: The similarities of the abilities with some of the youth here in Pittsburgh in relation to where we started in Los Angeles back in 2001 when the likes of Paul Lo Duca, Eric Gagne, Dave Roberts, Alex Cora, Adrian Beltre to name a few, where pretty much unheard of at the time. There are a lot of similarities here.

2005-11-10 21:37:06
148.   Steve
Maximizing the number of outs that you have available during the course of a game (27 outs) is the key to understanding how to play winning baseball on a regular basis. Grounding out to short early in the game with a man on third and the infield playing back isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'm back off the wagon!

2005-11-10 21:39:41
149.   natepurcell
re 147

i almost feel bad for pittsburgh fans. Godspeed pittsburgh... godspeed.

2005-11-10 21:42:03
150.   Kayaker7
The chat made me chuckle, because we use the term, "chemistry" as a tired cliche and a joke. JT used it with conviction.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-10 21:43:13
151.   Steve
We've been mediocre for years! We hate being mediocre for years! I love the guys who play for the Dodgers! Let's keep the guys that have kept us mediocre for years!

This is the sort of group therapy triggering thing I was referring to in my letter last year.

2005-11-10 21:44:01
152.   Steve
I think this may be related to why incumbent Congressmen get reelected every year.
2005-11-10 21:44:32
153.   natepurcell
tracy is fascinated with players that remind him of himself when he was playing.

you know, the less talented, scrappier ones that never got a chance in the bigs because they were as good as the next guy.

what does that say about the current personel of the pirates?

2005-11-10 21:45:31
154.   Kayaker7
It was interesting how direct JT sounded. Very different from when he posed circular questions and answered them himself. I guess he is in a very comfortable environment.
2005-11-10 21:45:54
155.   King of the Hobos
147 Roberts was with the Indians in 2001, I guess facts aren't important.

Is "Very similar to what I experienced in L.A. with the likes of Dave Roberts" a compliment to Chris Duffy?

I tend to doubt that was Tracy in the interview, "Tracy" asked exactly one question to himself, "how many losing seasons do you need to have in a row before you get tired of it?" In that much space, he usually can get 4-5 in easy

2005-11-10 21:47:10
156.   Steve
But who's to say that if Dave Roberts had been with the Dodgers in 2001, he wouldn't have been unheard of at the time? Eh? Huh?
2005-11-10 21:47:58
157.   YLT
I agree with Xeifrank. Spending our money on hitting is a safer bet than spending it on pitching. Seems like very pedestrian pitchers are getting $7-8 million these days, whereas that kind of money will buy you a pretty solid hitter.

Actually, looking through some of the salaries, guys like Ray Durham and Edgardo Alfonzo are making that kind of money. I guess $7 mill doesn't buy much anymore.

2005-11-10 21:48:44
158.   King of the Hobos
I guess late 20s AAAA OFs don't tend to be well known, I will give him that
2005-11-10 22:05:55
159.   bokonon42
I guess 156 answers the unposed question of whether Steve is a happy drunk or an angry one.
2005-11-10 22:06:17
160.   Jon Weisman
Okay. Clearly, at this point, Jim Tracy knows how to push my buttons. So I apologize for sounding so irritated.

I am sick of Jim Tracy preaching the virtues of "getting the bunt down" when he couldn't teach a single Dodger to get the bunt down! In his entire history as Dodger manager, two Dodgers could bunt: Dave Roberts and Alex Cora - neither of whom Tracy taught the skill to.

You like bunting? Teach it!

I could just as easily preach the virtues of "using the bat to hit the ball over the outfield fence."

2005-11-10 22:08:59
161.   bokonon42
How long is the bender going to last, by the way? March is a long ways off.
2005-11-10 22:17:28
162.   Steve
Hee Seop Choi can bunt.
2005-11-10 22:19:35
163.   Steve
Who says it's going to end in March? Is McCourt going to sell the team to someone competent?
2005-11-10 22:23:52
164.   King of the Hobos
I was bored so I decided to start clicking on random links in the sidebar. First thing I come to is this:

It's Spanish, but according the Dominican Players blog in the sidebar, it says:

"McCourt will be honored for the efforts of the Los Angeles Dodgers to Dominican Baseball by Campo Las Palmas, operating since 1987.

McCourt will be here with Tommy La Sorda."

2005-11-10 22:24:04
165.   bokonon42
Now that's dedication. I've heard of hunger strikes, but a booze-a-thon till the McCourts sell? You're a protest genius. A post-modern Gandhi!
2005-11-10 22:26:26
166.   Jon Weisman
Okay, I'm not that angry.
2005-11-10 22:28:50
167.   King of the Hobos
JD Adande has an article in tomorrow's LA Times that says that NG shouldn't become the next GM, beause "Then she wouldn't be known as the first female general manager. She would be just another ex-Dodger"
2005-11-10 22:35:41
168.   jasonungar05
so in possibly 392 games for the dodgers dave roberts hit .255 with a .335 OBB. His table setting allowed him to score 164 runs. Or less than a half a run per the games he actually particpated in. He hit the ball out of the infield 8 times. Dave Robert's with all his talent aside, makes JD Drew look like Steve Garvey or Cal Ripken never playing more than 127 games for the Blue(or anyone for that matter).
2005-11-10 22:36:46
169.   jasonungar05
JD Drew can't bunt but Bradley could! LOL
2005-11-10 22:39:04
170.   Steve
Nor did he teach Dave Roberts and Alex Cora how to hit, which might have been helpful too.
2005-11-10 22:51:58
171.   Steve
The Troy Glaus signing was so great, Rosenthal is trying to foist him on us.
2005-11-10 22:58:23
172.   bokonon42
Dave Stewart on the McCourt's GM search:
"I'm more qualified than all of the people they've marched in there."

2005-11-10 23:09:57
173.   Uncle Miltie
172- I agree with Stewart on everything except the part about being GM. I would never hire as a GM of any team.

From Adande's article:
There are questions at the corner infield positions. There are payroll restrictions and few tradable assets. The one strength, a solid farm system, might not kick in soon enough to benefit her.
Prospects are tradable assets, JA. I think he meant tradable assets on the major league roster.

2005-11-10 23:18:21
174.   Steve
The stupid line about "stat-geek boys" mars what is otherwise a decent and somewhat appropriately toned piece.
2005-11-10 23:28:44
175.   Uncle Miltie
174- even though I didn't like that line, I thought it was an excellent article
2005-11-10 23:34:13
176.   capdodger
174,175 - Agreed. The "stat-geek boy" jibe was not needed. Besides, if it's a shot at DePo, didn't he play at Harvard? Do these writers ever fact check? Otherwise I agree with the tone and subject. Ng is too good to work for these two fools.
2005-11-10 23:56:33
177.   Bob Timmermann
So the consensus seems to be:

1) Steve Phillips's mock press conference on ESPN was useless.
2) Arrested Development is on its last legs
3) Walllllllllllttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!

2005-11-11 01:20:18
178.   Eric L
I thought this old interview with Neyer at with DePo was pretty interesting. He was still Beane's assistant at the time. His answers towards the end of the interview seem to contradict the idea that he lacked people skills. Of course, I think he is a smart guy and like alot of intelligent people, he may have answered the questions the way he thought they should be answered.

Warning to Steve.. he talks about how much he likes Grabo in the interview...

2005-11-11 01:22:16
179.   fanerman
Part of me still can't believe that DePo's fired. That's the same part that's afraid Konerko will be manning 1st base and Guzman will be traded for Beltre...
2005-11-11 02:09:40
180.   GoBears
178. Thanks for the link, Eric. I remember reading that back when Neyer's columns were free. Sheesh, unless DePodesta failed to practice what he preached, about communication, and people skills, then the criticisms of him are completely off base. We already know the criticisms of his baseball acumen are nuts, but he certainly doesn't come across as someone who thinks that being right is an excuse to be a jerk or a hermit.

Which just makes the firing even weirder. Either McCourt just didn't like him, or cared more about his own popularity, or whether DePo just couldn't take the hot seat, I guess we'll never know. Damn shame, though.

2005-11-11 06:57:01
181.   dzzrtRatt
180 Go back and watch the video of McCourt's news conference announcing the commencement of the search for a new GM, and that McCourt had told DePodesta that they were 'moving on.' It is eerie. Here is a man with executive power who is utterly lost and unable to account for himself. McCourt can't explain why he's done what he's just done, and he has no idea what he's going to do next. If this were a melodrama, you'd almost think a gangster was behind a curtain with a gun aimed at him, saying "just tell them everything's fine and they'll go away."

I suspect this move was due to:

1) DePodesta's perceived unpopularity with the fans;
2) The hostility DePodesta had kicked up among columnists;
3) The fact that Lasorda and Jamie McCourt both envied him;
4) The need for a scapegoat for the 91-loss season.

Given these circumstances, I think DePo could've been Jesus Christ, and he'd still have been fired. It had nothing to do with Moneyball as a philosophy, or his communication and management skills. As I've said before, McCourt looks in the mirror and sees an incompetent fool and a fraud. He knows he has no business running an enterprise like the Dodgers. But because he can't fire himself, he has to fire someone else. DePo wasn't the first, and he won't be the last.

2005-11-11 07:07:31
182.   Sam DC
I think this "who's to say" thing has legs. Can't wait to see if it holds longer than "Alex Cora would've gotten that."
2005-11-11 08:02:11
183.   blue22
From Adande's article:

Of the four men who have held the position since Fred Claire got the boot in 1998, none has landed a similar job with another team.

So between GM and manager, the only person to get another job in the years (arbitrary number because anything older and it predates me) after leaving the Dodgers has been Jim Tracy!

What is it with this organization?

2005-11-11 08:04:35
184.   Vishal
[41] that sucks. one of my friends is in "one on one", so i have to root for its success.
2005-11-11 08:28:35
185.   Vishal
[146] i don't know if anyone commented on this, but i think i figured out why jim tracy can't speak. the problem is that he's trying to sound smarter than he actually is, but in trying to develop more sophisticated sentence structures, his meanings get obscured because he is concentrating more on sounding intelligent than on what he's actually saying. here's a quote from the chat, in response to a question about whether the new hitting coach will be tim wallach:

"In all likelihood, Tim Wallach will not be the hitting instructor, although he is someone very high on our list. The geographics of the situation are not going to allow that to happen. As a result, the search is still ongoing in trying to fulfill all the parameters we are looking for in a hitting instructor for this group of Pittsburgh Pirates."

"the geographics of the situation" are not going to allow that to happen! meaning, i like tim wallach, but he lives on the other side of the country and doesn't want to move to pittsburgh.

that bit about "fulfilling all the parameters we are looking for" is meaningless, because any employer making a hire is looking for someone who fits the bill. but gosh, fulfilling parameters, that sounds pretty tough!

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