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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Anonymous Source-a-Thon
2005-11-14 07:10
by Jon Weisman

Will someone, somewhere please go on the record? No? Oh well. Here's the Hush Hush update on the Dodgers.

Ned Colletti: An anonymous source told Steve Henson of the Times that the Giants assistant general manager aced his interview with the Dodgers and has a strong possibility of being hired.

Henson includes in his story this quote from a 2003 interview Colletti gave Baseball Prospectus: "How a player approaches the game, how he approaches life, far outweighs what the stat line looks like." This would seem to show that Colletti has the blind spot of not realizing that the stat line includes most of the relevant parts of how a player approaches the game - that whatever effect this has will show up in his statistical performance. On the other hand, Colletti does work for the team that employs Barry Bonds, so perhaps the stat line carries more weight with Colletti than he is letting on. Update: With his usual detailed analysis, Rob McMillin has much more at 6-4-2.

Theo Epstein: Anonymous sources told Tony Jackson of the Daily News that the Dodgers offered the former Boston GM the Dodger GM job plus an ownership stake - though we haven't heard any confirmation that Dodger owner Frank McCourt has even interviewed Epstein, or whether they just had a casual phone call. Holding my breath I'm not.

As a side note, the entire idea of the at-play ownership stake confuses and intrigues me. Would the McCourts want Epstein that badly? Or would they just be giving a way a sliver of their future to keep their current executive salaries in line?

Kim Ng: No updates on the current Dodger assistant general manager, which probably means that she's the fallback option.

Personally, I often dislike the signings the Giants make - and I think the superhuman performance of Bonds has disguised many of their mistakes. Everyone's crying about the Dodgers, but it's not like the 75-87 Giants were impressive in 2005. While Colletti might be a diamond in the rough, it's hard for me to believe he is vastly superior to Ng, who has the advantage of being in-house and familiar with the organization. Of course, I don't really know.

Is Colletti in the running because Ng has not won over the multipartisan Dodger political machine? Or is Colletti window dressing to position Ng not only as the best available candidate within Los Angeles, but outside as well?

On the player side ...

Milton Bradley: Teams aren't jumping over themselves to acquire the troubled Dodger center fielder, whom Ng and fellow Dodger exec Roy Smith have apparently shopped around. While there may be interest, no one appears eager to overpay, prefering to wait things out and either get Bradley cheap or as a non-tendered free agent. Again, Bradley's health might be as big a reason for this as his temperament*. Still, I seriously doubt Bradley has reached the status of a don't-even-come-near-us John Rocker.

Already suckers for public opinion, the Dodgers might have been as curious as anyone else to know how valuable Bradley remained.

Given the gloom that currently hangs over the franchise, the Bradley angst seems to fit in somehow. Right now, it seems that Bradley remains just another option in the Dodgers' search to fill out their outfield.

Hideki Matsui: Working with an unusual contract, Matsui becomes a free agent after Tuesday if the Yankees don't re-sign him. Late last week, it looked more and more like the separation might happen, but over the weekend reports emerged that New York would satisfy Matsui's salary demands.

If the Dodgers hit Spring Training with a six-man outfield of J.D. Drew, Bradley, Jose Cruz, Jr., Ricky Ledee, Jayson Werth and a star acquisition, that might be the best outfield in the division, depending only on how Bonds does in 2006. And it would provide a great head start on the Dodger bench. The salaries of Bradley, Cruz, Ledee and Werth would only add up to about $8 million.

*I found out Friday that I have been misspelling this word all my life. Somehow I missed that "temperament" has an "a."

Comments (344)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-14 10:02:51
1.   JJoeScott
Temperament. My word is "prerogative," which I always thought Bobby Brown had misspelled ("My Prerogative") until I gave in and looked it up one day.
2005-11-14 10:05:08
2.   Bob Timmermann
I only realized I misspelled "temperament" until I hit 30. It's not part of the Catholic school spelling bee list I suppose.

I think Kim Ng should get the job because her name is easier to misspell. I'm already having problems putting the proper sets of double letters into "Colletti".

The only book of Colletti's available in the library where I work is the one he helped write with Jack Brickhouse.

2005-11-14 10:10:40
3.   JMK
Perhaps the market on Bradley will improve once Damon signs somewhere. After Damon I don't think there's a center fielder in the free agent market who's as good as Bradley.
2005-11-14 10:15:39
4.   zappala
So the McCourts don't have a baseball background. They've also run out of "big name" GMs. So why not interview the assistant GMs for all of the most successful teams? Wouldn't that be the easiest strategy, looking at people who have worked for a successful team? Why are they looking at some guy who works for the Giants, instead of whoever is/was in the front office for the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Braves? I get the sneaking suspicion that no one wants to talk to them.

I won a second grade Cathlic school spelling bee on "transubstantiation". Not a hard word, but certainly appropriate.

2005-11-14 10:15:46
5.   Jon Weisman
3- I think mostly it's just early - I don't think it has much to do with Damon or one other player specifically. I also think if Bradley were truly considered the No. 2 center fielder potentially available, the bidding would be more passionate.
2005-11-14 10:18:55
6.   Bob Timmermann

If you won on the word "transubstantiation" at a Protestant school, then people would have looked at you funny.

2005-11-14 10:24:09
7.   Curtis Lowe
How much sense does it make hiring the rivals assistant GM over your own assistant GM, When that AGM has never been apart of a world series winner and your AGM has x4? He wasnt hired by the Reds in 03 for not enough "player development experience!". Does this frighten anybody else?
2005-11-14 10:26:10
8.   Jon Weisman
7 - That's why I think it's possible that discussions with Colletti, Epstein et al are just cover for an eventual Ng hire. I still think it's possible that Jamie McCourt has pushed for Ng all along, and this is just the process to get there.

As long as the Dodgers can find someone that they are turning down, as opposed to someone who is turning them down, they can probably move forward with Ng.

2005-11-14 10:28:22
9.   Curtis Lowe
8-Thanks, those are very calming thoughts.
2005-11-14 10:36:18
10.   willhite
9 -

Sorry to raise your level of agitation Curtis but we had better be "Ready for Colletti"

He has been quoted as saying that how a player feels about life is more important than his stat line and also has a long track record in Public Relations. I don't see how Frank can resist.

The only other thing to do is buy out Tracy's contract and bring him back, and it will be one big happy family.

2005-11-14 10:37:47
11.   bigcpa
If McCourt is weighing Epstein vs. Colletti it seems like "talent evaluation" is not his primary requirement. They're just too different. If he wants and can't get Epstein, why not find another New School guy in his mold like Byrnes or Daniels. And if he's looking for a "good mingler" as discussed yesterday, is Kim Ng a big improvement over DePodesta at working the room? It's pretty tiring trying to connect the dots.
2005-11-14 10:40:25
12.   CharlieBrown
Does everyone feel fairly comfortable that at this point Kim Ng is the best solution? I mean, what would be the point of hiring Theo, even if he would come? Everyone who hated DePo would be hard pressed not to hate Theo even with the WS win. The people who are against "Moneyball" don't seem to need much support for their views, so Theo winning would not count for much. And are any of the other candidates more impressive than Kim Ng? Do people here think that she is the best choice at this point?

One note on Milton Bradley: I think Bill James once pointed out that teams tend to make bad trades when they focus on who they are giving up, rather than on who they get. Since the Dodgers have basically announced to the world that they are fed up with Milt, why would anyone be offering much? They can just wait for the inevitable non-tender. So the Dodgers have basically commited themselves to getting nothing for him, it seems to me.

2005-11-14 10:43:18
13.   Curtis Lowe
12- I dont see why his low trade value wont reduce the cost of arbitration? With which the Dodgers come out on top and save money if they choose to re-sign Milton.
2005-11-14 10:47:49
14.   oldbear
12. I think Epstein is a step up in the PR War that the McCourts are fighting. This isnt a sabermetric vs old dodger way battle. Its always been about PR.

Epstein is loved by ESPN.
He's seen as 'cool' than a geek.
The guy played his guitar on Bronson Arroyo's CD.
He also has the WS ring to flash in everyone's faces.

I thought the Dodgers would get him. I just didnt think McCourt wanted him so badly he'd offer ownership of the team.

Thats the sweetest GM deal Epstein will ever be offered. He'd be a fool not to take it. Considering the talent coming up in LA, the market, and everything else that goes along with it.

In addition, he now has an excuse to use for leaving Boston. "I wanted to own a team. I couldnt do that in Boston. But I can do that in LA"

2005-11-14 10:48:29
15.   Jon Weisman
11, 12 - As I wrote before, the difference between Epstein and DePo is that 1) Epstein won a World Series and 2) acquired Dave Roberts. This shows Epstein to be two things the media have decided DePo is not: a winner and a guy who values good guys. Epstein's connection to New School thinking in this context is just tangential.

McCourt doesn't want another DePo. He wants someone in his mind who is better than DePo. If he can't get that, he'll go another direction to get someone better than DePo.

12, 13 - Doubtful the Dodgers would go all the way to arbitration with Bradley, if Bradley is staying. As they did last year, the parties would probably agree on a contract before a hearing.

2005-11-14 10:52:16
16.   Sam DC
I think Epstein and DePodesta are different in notionally significant respects other than the ring. When the Red Sox signed Schilling, it was widely reported as Epstein's personal coup -- he was tone-perfect, he flew down to AZ (or wherever it was) for the big Thanksgiving dinner, he sold Schilling on the deal. DePodesta apparetly dissapointed on just that front (couldn't seel Vasquez on coming here, wasn't there someone else too?). Also, Epstein resigned a heart-of-the-team catcher to a big contract when it was widely predicted that he wouldn't.

Now as to why he would come work for an owner who has been so erratic, that's a different question. But I guess money + ownership stake + some sort of contract guarantee of "complete" control = who knows?

2005-11-14 10:54:06
17.   Sam DC
note that I wrote 16 before seeing 14 or 15, so it is just a view on the issue, not a response.

and I hope I didn't offend Mr. Klum with my "seel"

2005-11-14 10:54:43
18.   willhite
Although I think that the various negatives involved in having to work with Frank and Jamie may overcome even an ownership stake, we have to consider the fact that Theo would now be working in the entertainment capital of the world. Hooray for Hollywood.........
He might actually factor that in as a positive.
2005-11-14 10:58:04
19.   gcrl
i won the 6th grade spelling bee with "sachet". the only reason i knew how to spell it was that it was the word that knocked my brother out of the 8th grade spelling bee the previous week.

in a baseball related note, only a couple of minutes until the al mvp is announced. although i detest the dh, my dislike of arod is greater, so i hope david ortiz wins.

2005-11-14 11:01:35
20.   Sam DC
From Mike Wilbon's chat on

Chicago, Ill.: I was wondering what you think of columnists at supposed major newspapers who beat the drums to fire people? You've never struck me as the type to do that. I'm not even talking about say maybe one column saying that regretfully, maybe this isn't working out and maybe they should part ways amicably, but more along the lines of railing against the hire to begin with, coming up with derogatory nicknames for the person you want fired like "Google Boy," and basically never inviting the possbility that this person may have some qualifications.

Michael Wilbon: I don't like those columns. I don't read those columnists with great regularity. And I'm glad--even grateful--I work for a newspaper that does not endorse that and whose readers are more literate and sophisticated and discerning than that when it comes to reading habits. And thank you for a right-on-the-money observation.

2005-11-14 11:03:08
21.   Sam DC
2005-11-14 11:11:33
22.   scareduck
Jon -- re "temperament" -- I had a similar reaction to the non-word "perogative", which I have heard pronounced that way all my life. In the dictionary, it's "prerogative", but honestly, I believe in descriptive lexicography for the most part. I hereby announce to the world that I refuse to go along with "prerogative" until people start saying it to match the spelling. (Of course, my troublesome wife reminds me about "February"...)
2005-11-14 11:13:16
23.   D4P
Well, I guess being a rebel is your prerogative.
2005-11-14 11:13:30
24.   Bob Timmermann
Rob McMillin, the Noah Webster of the 21st Century!

Thinking like that could find you in gaol.

2005-11-14 11:15:49
25.   Jon Weisman
19 - Is it basically true that people don't like A-Rod because he's kind of like Eric Karros, aloof and seeming only to produce in non-pressure situations, except that A-Rod plays a key position and his stats are out of this world?

I'd take him.

2005-11-14 11:16:03
26.   gcrl
22 - don't forget about "wednesday" and "supposedly".
2005-11-14 11:18:26
27.   Jon Weisman
Only one ex-Dodger got AL MVP votes.

No, it wasn't Jose Lima. But Lima did make Baseball Prospectus' All-Hacking Mass team.

2005-11-14 11:19:07
28.   Jon Weisman
26 - I don't get the mention of "supposedly."
2005-11-14 11:20:59
29.   still bevens
27 Who else made the elite list of hacks?
2005-11-14 11:21:42
30.   Bob Timmermann
Chone Figgins got 6 votes for MVP! He got more votes than Huston Street.
2005-11-14 11:22:07
31.   gcrl
25 - i'm not sure why others don't like him, but, for me, the two things that sealed it were the slap in the 2004 alcs, and the comments he supposedly (supposably?) made about the rangers not being able to compete; seemingly not realizing that his contract was an albatross around their neck.

i am also jealous of his talent and paycheck.

i think that he is a guy that fans would love to have on their team (including possibly me), but hate when he is on another team.

karros sure could rake in coors field, couldn't he?

2005-11-14 11:22:58
32.   D4P
Is it that some people say "supposably"?
2005-11-14 11:23:14
33.   gcrl
27 - supposedly, often pronounced supposably by the likes of joey tribiani.
2005-11-14 11:25:07
34.   Jon Weisman
32 - Well, that's just a flat-out mispronunciation. That's a different topic. We're not going to change the spelling of "nuclear," are we?
2005-11-14 11:27:28
35.   Linkmeister
Since we're confessing spelling idiosyncracies here, I'll mention that in 4th grade at 259th Street School in Lomita my only error on a 110-word spelling test was "receive." I've never misspelled that word again. I before E except when not, and all that.
2005-11-14 11:28:07
36.   D4P
I doubt it, but I wouldn't misunderestimate the power of the nucular crowd.
2005-11-14 11:30:22
37.   D4P
True story: my first grade English class was promised a party by our teacher if everyone spelled every word correctly on our spelling test. Only one word was misspelled in the entire class, and the word was "a". The kid who misspelled it spelled it "ai."
2005-11-14 11:34:20
38.   Bob Timmermann
I won the schoolwide spelling bee in sixth grade on "parallel". I was eliminated in the schoolwide spelling bee in eighth grade on "parallel".

I left out the first "a" the second time.

In first grade, I was eliminated on the word "cherry". I spelled it "cheery". In third grade, I was dinged on the word "balloon". I left out an "l".

I hated the school spelling bees because I was always the prohibitive favorite. It's not a lot of fun to get up in front of the whole school and have your classmates rooting for you to lose so someone else can win.

Oh well, time to go back to therapy after dredging up those formerly suppressed memories.

2005-11-14 11:35:41
39.   fanerman
38 - Bob, wow, you really did have an unhappy childhood, and another layer of that onion was peeled today.
2005-11-14 11:36:15
40.   Jon Weisman
Bob Timmermann, the Yankees of Spelling Bees.
2005-11-14 11:38:01
41.   Linkmeister
Realizing I sounded smug up there in 35 , I should at that I am always puzzled as to whether the past tense of "cancel" has one "l" or two. I got into a heckuva discussion about that one time and learned that one (canceled) is acceptable, but it seems to defy all the rules.
2005-11-14 11:40:40
42.   scareduck
Interesting commentary about the politics behind an Ng/Colletti division in the Dodgers FO. Evil thought: Tommy Lasorda agrees with Al Campanis on the subject of minorities/women's abilities in the FO. Discuss.
2005-11-14 11:41:54
43.   Bob Timmermann

I had a happy childhood. I just got very nervous before spelling bees. Jon had it right. I was like the Yankees. Or USC football. Every year I was expected not to rebuild, but to reload.

Of course when I was in second grade, my mother told me that I worried too much and I would give myself an ulcer. So then I started worrying about giving myself an ulcer. She passed away before learning about the bacterial cause of ulcers!

2005-11-14 11:43:10
44.   Kayaker7
34 Yes, by presidential decree.
2005-11-14 11:43:26
45.   Uncle Miltie
Jon maybe you should add Odalis Perez to your post. According to reports, he is also being shopped. Rotoworld speculates that no one would be interested in taking on the rest of his contract, unless the Dodgers swap him for another bad contract. Pat Burrell, anyone? He would give the Dodgers some flexibility as he can play 1B or LF. Too bad he doesn't play 3B anymore.
2005-11-14 11:43:56
46.   Linkmeister
43 Given that milk used to be prescribed as a palliative for ulcers, what would one do if he/she was determined to be lactose-intolerant?
2005-11-14 11:44:20
47.   Curtis Lowe
42- Are those views that they should'nt be involved in the FO? I was learning how to eat when Al Campanis got the boot, though I know it happened because of demeaning racial comments on a late night interview or soemthing.
2005-11-14 11:44:32
48.   Kayaker7
Yahoo! reporting that A-rod just won the AL MVP.
2005-11-14 11:45:45
49.   gcrl
34 - i offered up supposedly in reference to what i thought the spirit of the other comment (22) had been: words whose spelling surprises people because of the way they have been popularly (mis)pronounced.

there was a report on mpr (minnesota public radio) last year about a nuclear plant in a rural part of the state and the reporter consistenly said "nuculer". just like homer j simpson.

2005-11-14 11:46:40
50.   Curtis Lowe
CNN reporting: US invades Iraq.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-14 11:51:20
51.   scareduck
47 - yes. Campanis made some stupid comment or other regarding blacks in the front offices, and got fired for it. Tommy may secretly harbor the same kinds of thoughts but somehow been able to keep his mouth shut (a first, I know).
2005-11-14 11:57:14
52.   Curtis Lowe
51-Is that just speculation or has that been reported?
2005-11-14 11:57:41
53.   Kayaker7
50 'Scuse me if I'm late to the MVP celebration party.
2005-11-14 12:00:53
54.   Bob Timmermann

He just brought it up as an "evil thought". It's just a worst case scenario.

2005-11-14 12:01:47
55.   Penarol1916
20. Did you like that question I gave to Wilbon? I was just curious about how those who are actually decent at the columnist gig view comparably small fish like Plaschke.
2005-11-14 12:03:56
56.   molokai
Just ordered Mind Games from BP, has anybody here read it?

Just some quick notes from the Bill James Handbook 2006
Quick and dirty projections:
Choi - 17/258/361/462/824
Kent - 27/290/366/504/870
Izzy - 2/269/310/345/655
Robles 4/287/348/393/741
Aybar - 2/266/333/363/696
Navarro - 7/263/335/371/706
Drew - 25/293/409/525/933
MB - 17/279/362/458/820
J Cruz - 17/260/364/480/844
Werth - 10/255/347/433/780

Possible Free Agents
Giles - 24/412/492/904
Nomar - 18/307/359/506/865
Damon - 13/292/361/425/786
Mueller - 12/283/365/421/786
Randa - 18/271/327/435/762

Dodger Rookies:
Jdt - 10/262/318/440/758

Rumored Possible Trade Targets:
Abreu 25/294/415/498/913
Beltre 25/274/331/479/810
Blake 21/252/324/438/762
Branyan - 20/234/337/476/813
Glaus - 33/253/362/510/872
Kearns - 20/270/363/497/860
Thome - 32/261/396/534/930
Wilkerson - 16/256/371/409/780

2005-11-14 12:13:19
57.   scareduck
56 - care to explain what those five-part lines are supposed to be?
2005-11-14 12:14:56
58.   scareduck
54 - or a best case scenario, if you want to see Frank make mistakes at every turn and drill the team deeper into a pit, so's someone else can take ownership.
2005-11-14 12:22:00
59.   fanerman
57 - I'm guessing that they're:
2005-11-14 12:22:06
60.   molokai
2005-11-14 12:26:50
61.   molokai
Given the finalist I can't imagine Tommy having any input at all. If Ng is indeed hired, it will be interesting how Tommy is handled. A lot of "thanks for your input and I'll take it under consideration".
2005-11-14 12:35:15
62.   regfairfield
56 Short version: It stinks.

Long version:

2005-11-14 12:35:55
63.   scareduck
61 - ... and what do you think DePodesta said to Tommy? Was it...

"Tommy, you're a blowhard with a negative track record, having chased Paul Konerko and Pedro Martinez out of the house. Your insignificant contributions as permanent cheerleader don't begin to even equal the damage you've done as a GM and an "advisor" to Fred Claire before that. You're lucky we don't make you Vice President Of Saying "I Bleed Dodger Blue" In Countries Twelve Timezones Away; you've already made enough bad calls to merit firing and permanent exile to, say, Greece or some other baseball wonderland."

Or as an outsider, was he likely to say, "thanks for your input and I'll take it under consideration"?

Yeah. Plan B.

2005-11-14 12:36:49
64.   Curtis Lowe
Giles projects a 412 BA? WoW!
2005-11-14 12:39:44
65.   D4P
And a 904 SLG!
2005-11-14 12:49:13
66.   Monterey Chris
The article I saw about Colletti and the good impression he made upon McCourt also said the Dodgers are capping next year's payroll at $75 million. If true, I imagine that would impact which FA's (if any) we pursue.
2005-11-14 12:58:52
67.   regfairfield
66 If that's true, that basically already prices us out of any major free agents. Going by Jon's side bar, we have four million dollars left. Dropping Alvarez gives us six million. Assuming Choi gets around one million from arbitration, we're down to five.

That puts us firmly into Jason Johnson, Bill Mueller, Joe Randa territory. Not good at all.

2005-11-14 13:00:44
68.   Curtis Lowe
If payroll were cut to 75 mil, how would the Dodgers contend? Who could they sign? Would it decrease trade possibilities? Who gets called up to fill the holes? Do fans pay more for less?

If Colletti is hired and Payroll is cut to 75 mil then I honestly think I'll have to take a few days off from work due to being physicly i'll. However I would be easily pleased with Kim Ng getting the position and a slight payroll cut to 90 mil. Though the only outcome that could get me to go dancing in the streets would be Theo getting the job and having full access to the promised 100mil.

2005-11-14 13:08:17
69.   scanderbeg
66 - What is the source of this information? I don't understand why McCourt would make the promises about the payroll that he did if he did not intend to have it at least around $85-90MM. Then again, I don't understand a lot of things.
2005-11-14 13:08:33
70.   molokai
Giles - 24/291/412/492/904
2005-11-14 13:19:27
71.   Jacob L
If I can steer us back, for the moment, to spelling.

In fifth grade, in the school finals, I misspelled "annual." There was a poster in the back of the room that said "Vista Grande Elementary Annual Spelling Bee." I knew that poster was there. Had I not known, I might have taken a gander to my friends who were wildly gesticulating in the direction of the poster. I consciously decided to not look, in the interest of fair play. Suitably distracted, I threw in an extra "l" at the end. Game over.

2005-11-14 13:22:25
72.   Bob Timmermann

The moral of this story is, of course, that honesty never pays off in the long run.

2005-11-14 13:28:54
73.   D4P
Looks like it didn't pay off in the short run, either.
2005-11-14 13:36:47
74.   Vishal
[22] i pronounce it pruh-rog-uh-tiv. i must've read it before i heard it i guess.

but then i also pronounce the month february with the R, and hearing "feb-yoo-airy" grates on my ears.

my spelling bee story: when i was a 4th grader i lost (well, i got 2nd place) to a 6th grader in the district spelling bee on the word "bureaucracy". the thing is, i knew how to spell bureau, i just didn't realize that the words were related. bureaucracy has been the bane of my existence ever since. and now i aspire to work in government.

2005-11-14 13:53:26
75.   Penarol1916
I never participated in the spelling bees at school, stating, "I choose not to spell." I never cared for the fact that people assumed that I could spell when I had no interest in spelling, now the Geography Bee, that was another matter.
2005-11-14 13:53:31
76.   overkill94
Is it "Febuary" or "February"? Because I prefer "Febuary". And what is this "ru"?
2005-11-14 13:55:53
77.   Slipstream
I don't understand why the Dodgers aren't shopping Kent around first, instead of Bradley. Like someone mentioned before, Bradley has no trade value right now. As for Kent, I'm sure there are teams that could use him. Does anyone think that the Dodgers are contenders in '06? Whoever the GM is eventually, the most realistic strategy is to bite the bullet and acknowledge we're rebuilding. And whatever Kent's value is to a team, it ain't mentoring rookies. I say try to pick up some prospects.

Depo's imperative to win now and rebuild at the same time was just too difficult, and set him up for a fall, unfortunately.

As for Colletti saying that he's more interested in a player's approach to life than to what shows up in the stat line, he's really saying he's not interested in a team's wins and losses, only in their approach to life. That's fine by me, as long as he stays with the Giants.

2005-11-14 13:55:55
78.   Bob Timmermann

"I choose not to spell" was not an option in Catholic school.

Options about anything in Catholic school were not options.

2005-11-14 13:58:08
79.   D4P
How about "believing in God"? Was that optional?
2005-11-14 13:58:37
80.   oldbear
56. I'm curious to know the reasoning behind Bill James projecting Oscar Robles as more productive than Wily Aybar?

Robles- .287/.348/.393
Aybar- .266/.333/.363

And then a bounce back year for Beltre:
Beltre- .274/.331/.479

Has Beltre ever come close to slugging .479 aside from 2004?

Everything else seems alright except those are real generous projections for Nomar. I dont think he can SLG .506

2005-11-14 13:59:37
81.   regfairfield
77 "Depo's imperative to win now and rebuild at the same time was just too difficult, and set him up for a fall, unfortunately."

Why do you say this? Had the Dodgers not lost three of their four best players, they would have won the division easily. While it's doubtful they could have won the whole thing, they could always get some 2002 Angels esque magic and take a championship.

Assuming DePo's plans worked out, the key positions for our prospects were going to be vacated by 2007/2008, while weaker positions were wrapped up long term. It was a very solid plan.

2005-11-14 14:00:53
82.   regfairfield
80 In 2000 he slugged .470.
2005-11-14 14:05:50
83.   molokai
Found this in Baseball America. In 2003 this appeared in BA as a list of the top people if you were to conduct a GM search. In 2000 they did the same list and the top 6 people on the list including Paul Depodesta have been hired as General Managers. Depodesta was number 4 on the 2003 list and number 8 on the 2000 list.

6. Ned Colletti, assistant GM, Giants

Under GM Brian Sabean, the Giants have been known for staying below the radar. Similarly, two key members of Sabean's inner circle--Colletti and director of player personnel Dick Tidrow-- have quietly emerged as GM candidates. Colletti, 48, negotiates all contracts for the Giants and "knows the rules inside and out," according to another baseball official, while Tidrow oversees both scouting and player development and might be one of the game's most underrated talent evaluators.

Kim Ng got an honorable mention as one of the new wave.

Of the 2003 list only 2 have become general managers. Depodesta and Tim Purpura.

Here is the complete link:

2005-11-14 14:08:11
84.   Bob Timmermann

I went to Catholic school in the mid 1970s. At that time, the Catholic Church was a lot more liberal. Jesus was hip. Things were groovy. We sang songs from "Godspell" in church. We even sang "One Tin Soldier" as a hymn.

For those of you too young to catch on to those references, you can use Google.

The actor who plays Jennifer Garner's father in "Alias", Victor Garber, played Jesus in the film version of "Godspell".

2005-11-14 14:11:36
85.   molokai
I don't think James uses the complex methodology of the Pecota system like BP. I know that HQ uses historical history and park effects and health and everything else to figure out their projections. I have no idea what James does to come up with his results and I would take them with a grain of salt but it is still fun to look at the 1st projections for 2006. Later we will be able to compare them to Pecota and HQ and see how they stack up. Maybe tonight I'll compare the three projections systems for 2005 and see who did the better job on the Dodgers. I'm betting on HQ as they didn't expect much and we didn't produce much.
2005-11-14 14:14:50
86.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
84 - Jesus was hip. Things were groovy.
Proven by the Doobie Brothers' "Jesus is Just Alright With Me."
"Je-suuuuuuuus, he's my friend..."
2005-11-14 14:15:31
87.   Penarol1916
78. At St. James elementary in Davis it was an option.
2005-11-14 14:15:32
88.   Jacob L
77 I'd trade Kent, but there are parameters to what I'd take in return. Plus, the best place to ship a Kent is to a desperate "win now" team. The Cubs come to mind. Obviously the Yankees and Sox are in the discussion. All of these teams would consider Kent to be a moderate-to-major upgrade at 2nd.

Problem is what are we getting back? Not young stud pitching, unless the Cubs are dumb enough to give us Zambrano. I'm not taking Kerry Wood. Farm system depth doesnt' interest me terribly, and the Yanks and Cubs aint got that anyway. Don't want the Yankees surplus of aging, overpaid pitchers. So anyway, where is the good young pitching and/or major league outfielder that I can get for Kent?

This also raises the question, if we're not in "win now" mode, what mode are we in? Given the turmoil in the organization, and the circling buzzards, we ought to at least be in "win pretty soon" mode. That translates to getting a return on Kent that contributes in 2007, at the latest.

2005-11-14 14:29:32
89.   Johnson
87 Penarol
You grew up in Davis? Groovy. I've been in town for the last 13 years (and somehow, I'm STILL not a Giants fan!)
2005-11-14 14:30:57
90.   trainwreck
James gave near the same prediction for Nomar that I did. No I do not feel so stupid. Maybe he also thinks Nomar going to Milwaukee is a good idea.
2005-11-14 14:37:13
91.   Uncle Miltie
83- Josh Byrnes is the D'backs new GM and Jon Daniels is now the Rangers GM
2005-11-14 14:38:48
92.   Mark
68 What was the White Sox payroll this year?
2005-11-14 14:39:44
93.   natepurcell
if reports are true that Mccourt has offered theo the GM job and stake in ownership, then i am amazed. But in a good way. If he could somehow get theo, it would seriously be the coup of a lifetime.

If theo accepts, he brings a championship ring, a smart and savvy personality and most importantly, stability. With the ownership stake thing, we know theos going to be here for a long time, which is good news for us dodger fans because we could use a little stability.

i hope this happens, but im not holding my breath.

in the mean time, i am going over past dodger drafts and come to the conclusion that in about 6 years from now, we are going to look back at the 2003 dodger draft and fall to our knees and thank the big blue dodger in the sky and logan white for how they helped this franchise.

2003 dodger draftees:
chad billingsley
chuck tiffany
matt kemp
russ martin
andy laroche
travis denker

scouting videos on billingsley, tiffany, and kemp.

That is my only visual contat of kemp. He sure is an athlete, and his bat speed is pretty quick. I imagine hes filled out his 6'4 frame now.

2005-11-14 14:40:11
94.   regfairfield
92 The White Sox weren't stuck with several large contracts that were likely signed with a higher budget in mind.

Of course, if our players all magically get better...

2005-11-14 14:41:46
95.   Penarol1916
89. I only lived there for 3 years when I was little, plus I spent very little time there out of school since my mom was going to school at Berkeley and my dad was working in Sacramento and Tokyo at the time. I went back a year ago to visit a lamb slaughterhouse, doesn't seem to have changed much.
2005-11-14 14:43:38
96.   natepurcell
oops i messed up. russ martin was part of the 2002 draft class.

darn, well, now that just makes 2003 oboslete now doesnt it?

2005-11-14 14:51:08
97.   Bob Timmermann

I always make it a point to stop by any local slaughterhouse when I go to new towns.

2005-11-14 14:52:01
98.   Jon Weisman
97 - Somehow it figures that you're the reincarnation of Upton Sinclair.
2005-11-14 14:53:18
99.   Romyrick
This also raises the question, if we're not in "win now" mode, what mode are we in? Given the turmoil in the organization, and the circling buzzards, we ought to at least be in "win pretty soon" mode. That translates to getting a return on Kent that contributes in 2007, at the latest.
With McCourt, Lasorda and possibly Coletti running the ship I'd rather be in the

"win when they leave mode"

A "win now mode" with those goons = "Not winning now and severly disabled for the future" mode.

2005-11-14 14:55:28
100.   sanchez101
93. Also, two 2003 Dodgers draftee's have gone on to success in the college ranks; Matt Antonelli, a 3B at Wake Forest and Cory Van Allen, a LHP at Baylor were on BA's top 20 sophomore list for this season.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-14 15:00:51
101.   natepurcell
hey sanchez, what do you thhink of BA's sudden change of attitude towards tiffany?

they now say his stuff is average and yada yada yada. but in the scouting video on the mlb draft page, tiffanys stuff was electric. all his fbs were in the 91-94 range, consistently sitting at 93 with a sharp, hard biting curveball.

now, has he lost fb velocity since being drafted? or whats the deal? i dont get it.

2005-11-14 15:02:14
102.   Steve
101 -- The Plaschke Curse
2005-11-14 15:02:21
103.   Bob Timmermann
My father wanted to take us to the stockyards in East St. Louis once as a "learning experience". Somehow we got out of it.

The worst he was able to do was make us go to a cheese factory in Oregon. And a lumber mill.

2005-11-14 15:05:10
104.   Curtis Lowe
103-aha, so you too also know the unsavory practices of Lumber milling and cheese making.
2005-11-14 15:05:24
105.   Bob Timmermann
In the midst of this L.A. Observed post, there is a mention that the Times may lay off up to 70 editorial employees.

So who knows who will be left to mind the store.

2005-11-14 15:14:01
106.   sanchez101
101. I think that their is a large difference of opinion by the BA staff regarding Tiffany. I remeber the Ask BA that said tiffany is more a reliever, and then a week or two latter a different writer said that Tiffany still profiles as a soild 2-3 starting pitcher.
Personally, I dont see how Tiffany could put up such good k/9 and h/9 with "average" stuff. I dont think his fb velocity means much for Tiffany. Oddly, when he was drafted everyone was talking about his great circle-change, but then last year all we heard about was his curve. He seems to have two plus secondary pitches, so like Zito, he can get away with a 88 mph fastball.

what do you think of Paul, he was supposed to be the big outfielder from that draft, but Kemp has supplanted him? I still think he can have a good career.

2005-11-14 15:14:32
107.   King of the Hobos tells me that the Dodgers resigned Derek Thompson. No surprise really
2005-11-14 15:26:29
108.   Uncle Miltie
The LA Times must be taking McCourt's advice
2005-11-14 15:31:43
109.   D4P
Quid pro quo
2005-11-14 15:32:20
110.   Jon Weisman
Hart has officially withdrawn, via Texas Rangers press release, from the Dodger GM race.
2005-11-14 15:34:37
111.   Curtis Lowe
110-Now all we need is Colletti to withdraw and I'll be able to do my little kookie dance.
2005-11-14 15:35:21
112.   Bob Timmermann
So who do Hart's delegates at the GM nominating convention go to?
2005-11-14 15:37:15
113.   Jon Weisman
112 - If you have a straw hat, throw it to the sky ...
2005-11-14 15:42:25
114.   D4P
Is it the consensus around here that Orel is the frontrunner for the manager position?
2005-11-14 15:42:26
115.   fanerman
112 - Maybe to Colletti? I wonder how many "delegates" the Dodgers have. Frank, Jamie, and Tommy?
2005-11-14 15:43:54
116.   Bob Timmermann
They're just metaphorical delegates.

The Dodgers GM will be picked by a group of people in a smoke-filled room.

2005-11-14 15:46:34
117.   Bob Timmermann
Letter to the editor in Sunday's LA Times regarding the dismissal of Robert Scheer:

Did Dodger owner Frank McCourt buy The Times?


Canoga Park

2005-11-14 15:47:45
118.   King of the Hobos
What are the chances we have a GM by tomorrow night? I hope something is leaked soon...

Matthew Pouliot had some fun analyzing trade bait and predicting trades over at Rotoworld. It seemed fairly useless, but I find these things somewhat fun. Possible trades involving the Dodgers that he thought up were Bradley to the Yanks for Melky Cabrera (blah) and then Lowe and Laroche for Abreu (what?). He also thinks Choi is 100% gone

2005-11-14 15:50:36
119.   scareduck
81 - pfft. The Angels had the best regular season Pythagorean record of any team in baseball in 2002. There is an argument that they got lucky, but I'm finding myself thinking it's weaker than I did even two years ago.
2005-11-14 15:51:58
120.   King of the Hobos
114 Dunno about the concensus, but that seems to be the case
2005-11-14 15:53:37
121.   scareduck
106 - Jeff Weaver had a ~14.6 K/9 in single-A ball. It's much easier to get a lot of strikeouts at lower levels, and in pitchers' parks/leagues. Let's see the kid do it in Vegas. It was an insuperable hurdle for Edwin Jackson.
2005-11-14 15:54:33
122.   scareduck
117 - Scheer was a hack I long ago stopped reading. If they indeed dismissed him, it would be as if they had laid off Plaschke so far as I'm concerned.
2005-11-14 16:02:31
123.   Bob Timmermann
The Times completely redid their Op-Ed page in the wake of Kinsley's departure. Scheer got picked up by the Chron.
2005-11-14 16:04:19
124.   King of the Hobos
121 Weaver did that in 13 innings, really not the best example. Tiffany is at 11.85 in 211.2 IP
2005-11-14 16:09:58
125.   dzzrtRatt
122 I'm not much in Scheer's camp, but I think firing him was a huge mistake. He was a powerful polemicist for his point of view. He was also a prominent LA guy, teaching at USC, appearing on public radio. He made himself available to his critics to poke him in the eye on a regular basis. A lot of the left wing writers tend to shy away from having their talking points challenged, but Scheer welcomed the fight. I'm not much of a leftist anymore, but Scheer every so often persuaded me on an issue now and then. The Times won't stop printing left-wing columnists, but they will be weak tea compared with Scheer.

Comparing him to Plaschke seems unfair. Plaschke is a poser. He stands for nothing and everything, and he's totally unaccountable for anything he's said previously. Plaschke is more like John Kerry: "I was for Garry Sheffield, before I was against him."

2005-11-14 16:12:49
126.   Bob Timmermann
But Bill Dwyre has told me that Plaschke has one of the keenest minds for baseball on the whole Times staff!
2005-11-14 16:17:35
127.   molokai
and then for him again.
2005-11-14 16:18:32
128.   molokai
Thus supporting our contention that nobody knows anything about baseball at the LA Times.
2005-11-14 16:21:49
129.   scareduck
125 - eh, maybe. I always thought Scheer was one of those "Ramparts" liberals, a dark pink just a shade or two away from outright red. I have no use for people who have not just a like for bureaucracy, but an outright LOVE.
2005-11-14 16:23:38
130.   Bob Timmermann
Scheer did get his start in Berkeley in the 1960s and used to edit "Ramparts".
2005-11-14 16:25:09
131.   the OZ
Here's a scary connection relating to our GM search:

Ned Colletti attended Northern Illinois University.

So did TJ Simers.,1,406173.blurb?coll=la-news-columns


2005-11-14 16:25:53
132.   Sam DC
From the article on the manager search: "A Dodgers official termed the elimination of Hart as "mutual." He will remain with the Rangers as an advisor, a role he assumed after resigning as general manager last month.

That leaves the known candidates to replace Paul DePodesta as Dodgers GM to be current Dodgers vice president and assistant general manager Kim Ng, San Francisco Giants vice president and assistant general manager Ned Colletti and former Boston general manager Theo Epstein."

It may be that the Dodgers had internally decided not to hire him, but that press release re Hart did not look terribly mutual to me. And how exatly is Epstein a "known" candidate? Because Tony Jackson wrote a gossamer-sourced article about him? Have the Dodgers ever acknowledged him as a candidate?

2005-11-14 16:26:30
133.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, but I went to the same school as Eric Karros and I hope Jon likes me more than Karros.
2005-11-14 16:28:22
134.   Sam DC
132 General manager search, for the persnickety among us.
2005-11-14 16:29:34
135.   Curtis Lowe
132-Espn,FoxSports and I think some other site was reporting the Epstein offer, though it hasnt yet been announced on I would'nt be suprised if its true.
2005-11-14 16:33:04
136.   dzzrtRatt
Ned Colletti is a writer whose keen mind for baseball led him into the executive suite for a championship team. Bill Plaschke is a writer to whose keen mind for baseball no less than Bill Dwyre has testified. Could McCourt be considering Plaschke for GM?
2005-11-14 16:34:26
137.   Sam DC
135 Well, I realize it has been reported, and I guess I am the persnickety one, but I think "known" is clearly the wrong word. "reported" or "rumoured" would be fine, although I am honestly asking if the Dodgers have acknowledged their interest which would change my view.
2005-11-14 16:34:54
138.   Bob Timmermann
Plaschke's writing would only be important if it were for the L.A. Times. If you took him out of that environment, his performance would tail off to Steve Finley-like levels.
2005-11-14 16:34:57
139.   Jon Weisman
I like Bob more than Eric Karros but less than my mom.
2005-11-14 16:36:24
140.   dzzrtRatt
135 Doncha think that's just the media echo chamber? Fox out and out cites the Daily News, which didn't even seem to believe its own report. I can't find ESPN's but unless it's Gammons, I will assume it's the same cheezy reporting as Fox's.
2005-11-14 16:38:13
141.   LetsGoDodgers
Maybe GM Plaschke could force Tommy back into the uniform as the field manager. Talk about Heart and Soul!

The giggle factor of "General Manager Bill Plaschke" alone is worth it, indeed.

2005-11-14 16:41:09
142.   Curtis Lowe
140-Probably. But why bring reality into sucha nice rumor?
2005-11-14 16:42:41
143.   dzzrtRatt
129 Scheer was a pinko, no doubt. History since 1967 might have smacked some of that out of him. But unlike most on the left these days, he doesn't try to put his positions into soft focus with weasel words that make it seem as if their positions have evolved, when they really haven't. Scheer has had the courage of his convictions.
2005-11-14 16:44:03
144.   LetsGoDodgers
I predict no deigned GM before the end of the winter meetings. I predict no deigned GM before the top free agent hitters and pitchers have been signed by other teams.

Continuing the quest for a new GM until after the best players are off the board is an excellent tactic for suppressing payroll while keeping the media off your back. Disgusting, yet effective.

2005-11-14 16:47:36
145.   dzzrtRatt
Fox's story, unlike the DN, has Epstein "repeatedly" telling people he'd rather cut off his left, uh, knee than take the Dodger job. That's been speculated, but I hadn't seen it reported.

Theo seems like a man of integrity. He wouldn't be unemployed if that weren't true. If he thinks the McCourts would be a bad fit before they tried to bribe him with a piece of the action, I doubt he'd come around with the ante increased. In any case, I agree with whoever said this offer is likely not a "sweetened" counteroffer, it's McCourt's clumsy attempt to convince Epstein that a 50 percent pay cut wouldn't really be a pay cut because, hey look, you get to be an owner!

2005-11-14 16:49:20
146.   Bob Timmermann
I have never met Jon's mom, but I assume she is a nicer person than Eric Karros. Although I heard in some years, she would do some bad mothering in April and May, but would tell Jon, "Just wait until the end of the year, my mothering totals will be up there, you'll see."
2005-11-14 16:50:21
147.   dzzrtRatt
Also: Camille Johnston. Isn't she the gift that keeps on giving? Candidates are pulling out of the race for Dodger GM left and right, so what does Camille say? The list is being "narrowed down." I'll say!
2005-11-14 16:51:26
148.   Curtis Lowe
145- Or could it be a show of confidence in Theo, since he would be a part owner the likelyhood of him getting fired would dramaticly increase. Besides McCourt I dont see why everyones black listing the Dodgers.
2005-11-14 16:53:31
149.   Jon Weisman
My Mom once defeated Rafer Johnson in a college debate class. My guess is that it wasn't in September.
2005-11-14 16:55:57
150.   Uncle Miltie
According to rotoworld, the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre. Colletti wouldn't have wanted him anyways, he's under 35.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-14 16:55:59
151.   Bob Timmermann
But Rafer Johnson still got elected student body president at UCLA.
Olypmic champion, lettermen in multiple sports, student body president, Johnson was the ultimate BMOC.

And I've sat behind him at a football game. He's a big guy. And he still looks to be in good shape.

2005-11-14 16:57:30
152.   Uncle Miltie
J.A. Adande just e-mailed back. He thanked me for e-mailing him and bringing up some good points. I e-mailed him about the Kim Ng article.
2005-11-14 17:01:40
153.   LetsGoDodgers
148 - When prospective GM's look at who is on the Dodgers 40-man roster and survey the free agent/trade market, the job looks pretty bad. Add the McCourt factor and I think it's obvious why a talented GM would avoid this ballclub.

The next GM needs to survive 2006, which should be another sub-optimal year for the Dodgers. In 2007 and beyond, the "youth movement" hits the big club and the GM will get a pass (from the media) for a couple of seasons.

2005-11-14 17:07:20
154.   scareduck
143 - which is to say he may have the courage of his convictions, but he also is willfully blind when their application yields less-than-ideal results. Hence my loathing.
2005-11-14 17:07:27
155.   sanchez101
153. I dont think I agree with you in any way. The 40 man roster includes good young talent and payroll flexibility, depending on how much mccourt is willing to spend. This years FA/trade market isnt any different for any other team. No GM will ever get a "free pass" from the media for rebuilding.
2005-11-14 17:09:10
156.   sanchez101
155. No Dodger GM will ever get a "free pass" from the media ...
2005-11-14 17:10:21
157.   LetsGoDodgers
My concern is that Ng gets handed the GM title, the Dodgers don't contend in 2006, and Ng gets canned for all the wrong reasons; if it can happen to DePo, it can happen to anyone.

The next GM comes in, the minor league class of 2007 comes up and the team ends the season with a winning record. The new GM gets the credit for rescuing the franchise from consecutive losing seasons, when in reality the credit should go to Logan White (with a tip o' the cap to Dan Evans).

Meanwhile, Ng can't get hired on above AGM status anywhere else in baseball for the better part of a decade. And that would suck.

2005-11-14 17:12:08
158.   LetsGoDodgers
155 - most of the good young talent won't be ready for 2006.
2005-11-14 17:13:11
159.   D4P
Well, if recent rumors are true, Depo's firing had less to do with the team's performance than with his personality and relationship with Dodger employees.

If that's true, then Ng's job might not be in jeopardy if she's hired as GM and the Dodgers don't contend in 2006. (Assuming of course that she passes Jamie's personality test)

2005-11-14 17:15:38
160.   LetsGoDodgers
159 - it's a concern, not a prediction.
2005-11-14 17:15:39
161.   LetsGoDodgers
159 - it's a concern, not a prediction.
2005-11-14 17:16:17
162.   Jon Weisman
If hired, Ng will get at least two years. Her moves will be run past Lasorda, so she'll won't bear any blame alone (of course, she may have to share credit). And anyway, the Dodgers will win more than 71 games next season, no matter what. And Jamie will be in her corner.
2005-11-14 17:16:51
163.   LetsGoDodgers
sorry for the double post
2005-11-14 17:18:21
164.   D4P
Actually, these recent rumors also help make sense of the McCourt's apparent interest in Epstein. When his name first surfaced, it confused me because I had assumed that Depo was fired because Tommy and convinced the McCourts that Depo's sabremetric philosophy didn't work, and that they should hire a GM who would reinstate "the Dodger way." But now it appears as if the McCourts are not necessarily opposed to Sabremetrics, but rather just Depo.
2005-11-14 17:18:44
165.   bigcpa
All this dire talk of 2006 seems to take 71-91 as a true reflection of the current major league club. If all we do is sign Nomar to play 3rd and find a bat to replace Bradley, that looks like an 87-90 win team to me. The new GM should be not fear 2006 any more than the GM's of our division rivals.
2005-11-14 17:19:54
166.   bigcpa
Me speak pigeon English!
2005-11-14 17:21:17
167.   fanerman
165 - As Jon has said, don't forget about the pitching. But yes, if we fielded the almolst the exact same team in 2006, I imagine we'd do much better.
2005-11-14 17:21:55
168.   sanchez101
Is it possible that Epstein comes on as VP of Baseball Operations and hires Ng as GM? That way when McCourt feels the need to fire someone 12-24 months from now, he can fire Ng, but Epstein keeps his job. I think its just sleezy enough to be true.
2005-11-14 17:22:29
169.   fanerman
164 - Maybe the reason McCourt didn't give a specific reason for firing DePo was because he didn't have any good reasons. If it were a sabermetric thing, he could have just gone with Plaschke's jabs about computers. Maybe it was just DePo's personality or some other nonsensical reason.
2005-11-14 17:22:54
170.   D4P
By "same team" I assume you don't mean Phillips, Edwards, Myrow, etc.
2005-11-14 17:23:38
171.   scareduck
162 - If hired, Ng will get at least two years. Her moves will be run past Lasorda, so she'll won't bear any blame alone (of course, she may have to share credit).

What was it Lasorda said about Pedro/Konerko? It's not my fault, talk to Campanis? She'll get any blame and Lasorda will try and hog any benefits.

2005-11-14 17:24:02
172.   LetsGoDodgers
If all significant trades get run through Lasorda, then the GM is a lame duck position. Maybe that's why nobody with prior experience wants this job.
2005-11-14 17:27:29
173.   Bob Timmermann
The new version of "The Night Stalker" has been cancelled.

This is the second notch on Steve's belt now. First Jim Tracy, then "The Night Stalker".

2005-11-14 17:29:46
174.   bigcpa
NL West 2005 Starter ERA
LA 4.36
SD 4.49
SF 4.52
AZ 4.58
COL 5.30

And that was actually down from 4.53 in 2004. The bullpen was the problemo and next year looks a lot brighter.

2005-11-14 17:30:25
175.   sanchez101
edwards, myrow, ect. where there because of injuries. For anyone to think that the dodgers are really a 71-win team, they must also think that Gagne (or anyother injured player) is as bad as the players who replaced him.
2005-11-14 17:30:34
176.   LetsGoDodgers
173 - the search for Martha Stewart's second apprentice won't happen next year either.
2005-11-14 17:31:49
177.   bokonon42
123- When I first read that, I thought you'd written that Scheer got picked up by The Onion. And that was hilarious. Then I reread it, and it was just informative.
2005-11-14 17:31:50
178.   Jon Weisman
171 - Oh, but most people did and do blame Lasorda for Konerko, despite all that. Those who think it was a bad trade, that is. It's just not put on the level of a Pedro Martinez or Paul Lo Duca trade. It's a second-tier mistake.

168 - Despite the perception that the McCourts hire people to be fired, I don't think the McCourts themselves consciously plan that way.

2005-11-14 17:35:01
179.   Jon Weisman
173 - Whose belt is "Arrested Development" notched on?


(Wouldn't that be convenient?)

2005-11-14 17:35:30
180.   sanchez101
174. Ive been harping on this issue for a while. The starters arent any worse than 2004, remember when Ishii was demoted to the bullpen twice and Nomo was the worst pitcher in baseball?
2005-11-14 17:36:36
181.   dzzrtRatt
169 The reason McCourt had no good reason for firing DePodesta was because it was his wife's idea, seconded by Tommy, and reinforced by the crappy Plaschke columns. When it came time to explain to the media what his reasons were, he would've been embarrassed to say, "ask Jamie." So he vamped, and looked like a fool.

Once again, some credit goes to Camille Johnston. She was so stuck on this idiotic notion you could describe the press conference as "announcing the search for a new GM," she didn't prepare McCourt for the fact that the media wouldn't just passively buy into this spin.

2005-11-14 17:38:41
182.   dzzrtRatt
178 No, I'm sure the McCourts are always optimistic that each new hire will be their salvation. When heaven on earth fails to arrive, that's when they start firing.
2005-11-14 17:38:43
183.   sanchez101
179 i think we can blame it on Murdoch, another less than admired character here at DT
2005-11-14 17:39:34
184.   D4P
1. I don't know, but if I ever find out, that notched belt will be wrapped around its owner's neck.

2. Michael: I'm amazed Dad hasn't strangled himself with his belt yet.

Lucille: Oh, we're into all kinds of freaky stuff.

2005-11-14 17:40:35
185.   D4P
184 refers to 179, not 173.
2005-11-14 17:40:42
186.   sanchez101
181. my theory is that he saw it an magic 8 ball. His response to that question during his press confrence was hilarious, even he didnt seem to know why.
2005-11-14 17:43:25
187.   sanchez101
is there any way Arrested Development can be made into a cartoon and put on cartoon network?
2005-11-14 17:55:00
188.   Steve
Like the Mounties, we always get our man!

Mrs. Peacock was a man?

(slap) (slap)

2005-11-14 17:59:21
189.   scareduck
178 - Despite the perception that the McCourts hire people to be fired, I don't think the McCourts themselves consciously plan that way.

You can trim the last two words from that sentence and it makes even more sense.

2005-11-14 18:01:14
190.   bigcpa
178 Well at least the Pedro trade was defensible when it happened. We traded a 21 yr old with 3 career starts for a 24 yr old coming off a .390 OBP, 43 SB season.

The Konerko trade was a bad move going in. He matched Karros in 1999 for the league minimum and had the credentials to take off from there. To think Lasorda has a few more of these up his sleeve gives me the willies.

2005-11-14 18:03:02
191.   trainwreck
HBO should pick up Arrested Development and pair it with Lucky Louie there new show with Louie CK (I attended the pilot episode). It is a network type sitcom, but with swearing and other dirty jokes.
2005-11-14 18:07:32
192.   bigcpa

Hideki Matsui's agent and the New York Yankees neared agreement Monday on a four-year contract worth about $50 million.

Godzilla off the board and adjust Mr. Giles' price tag accordingly. 3/$33M sounds about right.

2005-11-14 18:17:28
193.   LetsGoDodgers
192 - I think Giles at 3/$33M is a (relative) bargain and wouldn't be surprised if it took 4/$48M to sign him. I think the Cardinals are in the lead for Giles as they have money coming off the books, a new ballpark, and a great fan base to retire in front of.
2005-11-14 18:20:49
194.   D4P
I remember hearing near the end of the season that Giles really wanted to stay near his home in San Diego.
2005-11-14 18:20:55
195.   Fallout
190. bigcpa
To think Lasorda has a few more of these up his sleeve gives me the willies.

I think that it gives him the willies too. That is why he is not being mentioned for GM.

2005-11-14 18:27:37
196.   sanchez101
i think Giles is worth $33m/3yrs, im not sure about a fourth year just becuase of his age. SD really screwed up by lowballing him. For as much controversy thats gone on with the Dodgers, the Padres look to be in trouble this offseason. They think Castilla is the answer at third, and they look to loose both Giles and Ramon Hernandez, #1 and #3 on the team in VORP. And their rotation in worse shape than the Dodgers, despite Peavy. And if you think its been tough as a Dodger fan and watch Konerko, imagine what its like for Padre fans to watch Derrek Lee while they trade Nevin for Park.
2005-11-14 18:30:07
197.   D4P
No offense, but it will be a sad day for Dodger fans if "being better than the Padres" is our standard. I know that's not what you mean, but still...
2005-11-14 18:41:10
198.   sanchez101
197. true, its like the Lakers striving to be better than the warriors. The NL west is very weak. SF is only getting older and grayer, and they dont seem very active this offseason. Arizona had one of the worst pitching staffs in the game, and one of their only two good pitchers just requested a trade. Colorado is still a long way from being competative. The Dodgers dont have to be good next year, they just have to be good enough.
2005-11-14 18:50:20
199.   D4P
Speaking of the Lakers, they trail Memphis by a mere 25 points in the 3rd quarter.
2005-11-14 18:52:50
200.   dzzrtRatt
I've been trying to find the right word between contending and rebuilding. "Retending?" "Conbuilding?"

Anyway--the reality is, 2007 will be a rebuilding year, as will 2008. These young Suns will not arrive in the majors ready to contend for a World Championship. There will be a shakedown and a shakeout. The key strategic goal for these youngsters would be to manage this resource appropriately to allow the 2006 team to contend (i.e. being willing to trade off one or two for the right pieces), while maintaining the core of the future.

I think the 2006 team is a potential contender if we are moderately aggressive in the offseason. The chances for that to be true diminish the longer the GM search continues. McCourt's kneejerk firing of DePodesta could, alone, account for a bad season next year, but the stupidity of that act can be overcome with a good decision being made quickly.

Rather than overpay for Giles--I'd love to have him, but the auction's going to be nuts--I'd rather target a powerhitting outfielder and a #2 or 3 level starting pitcher with teams that might be tempted by one or two of our prime prospects to give up someone younger, cheaper and enduring.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-14 18:55:42
201.   Sam DC
Uh oh. Guess the Dodger prospect described this way in Ken Gurnick's mailbag: "He's maturing as a hitter the way Jason Repko did with his breakout Arizona Fall League campaign a year ago."

(Don't worry -- not the Destroyer)

(and for the record, despite this comment, and for no good reason at all, I actually like Jason Repko and hope he sticks with the big club)

2005-11-14 18:58:18
202.   Steve
Please don't tell me it's James Loney. Please...
2005-11-14 18:59:26
203.   Steve
Good lord.
2005-11-14 19:00:38
204.   Jon Weisman
187 - No chance.
2005-11-14 19:08:00
205.   Sam DC
201-203 It's just odd that he would cite Repko in this way in a mailbag answer that by tone seems to believe it is presenting good news about Loney. Love Repko or hate him, he is not the hitter Dodger fans hope Loney will be.
2005-11-14 19:13:10
206.   Steve
RIP, James Loney's career. We hardly knew ye.
2005-11-14 19:21:56
207.   sanchez101
200. 2006 wont be a "bad" year unless, everyone gets injured again or the new GM makes a lot of stupid moves. A healthy 2005 squad with Navarro, Aybar, and Cruz should win 88 - 92 games and that should win the NL West.

Just replacing Phillips and Valentin/Edwards with Navarro and Aybar would net the Dodgers almost 5 wins, and that projecting Navarro and Aybar conservatively.

2005-11-14 19:24:52
208.   sanchez101
Loney elicits the same "gamer" references that Repko does. He's a clubhouse leader, doesnt mind getting dirty or playing hurt, looks good playing the game, and just knows how to play the game the right way. If/when Loney ever establishes himself he will be a favorite of sportswriters.
2005-11-14 19:26:04
209.   Bob Timmermann
I like guys who play the game the right way. Those guys who run the bases the wrong direction are really annoying.
2005-11-14 19:49:21
210.   Steve
As usual, all that was missing was Loney "can hit."
2005-11-14 19:49:30
211.   Uncle Miltie
If Loney is a good bunter, he may be a 1st baseman in the Darrin Erstad mold (minus the speed).
2005-11-14 19:53:12
212.   King of the Hobos
Going back a ways into the discussion (and this wasn't even discussed), is anyone else a little unhappy that the Cubs could soon get Pierre? I was really hoping for a Bradley-Hill swap (I've come to the conclusion that Hill is about the best we can do). Shrinking the market can't be good.

I can only hope that the Dodgers go for a member of the Pirates lefty quintet (or Wells). Would acquiring a 4th/5th starter (be it Hill, Redman, Wells, etc) for Bradley be a success? The A's may have something for us, but I'd be afraid of being ripped off. The Nats and Tigers don't have much that interests me personally (unless Bowden is willing to give up players he doesn't like, such as Wilkerson, Hernandez, or if he's really nice, Patterson)

2005-11-14 19:55:56
213.   Steve
Nate, if you're around tonight, please address the Loney issue. I thought Loney was talented and a comer, and Gurnick just called him the Second Coming of Repko, and then sanchez called him a "gamer," which is, if possible, worse than scrappy.
2005-11-14 20:03:58
214.   natepurcell
actually, loney isnt really a "gamer". He isnt like repko where hes flying around, diving for everything, missing easy fly balls and being "scrappy". He is very emotionless when he plays. Some people say thats his cool, calm, presence takign over.

Hes very graceful in the field and has a really nice swing. Hes probably a more athletic shawn green. The same type of personality as well.

2005-11-14 20:06:22
215.   D4P
Nate - Would you rather have Loney or Choi?
2005-11-14 20:07:11
216.   natepurcell
to add, when loney matures and fills out, hes probably going to look like david justice.

whether he will hit like him, remains to be seen. Remember, justice didnt develop his power until age 23 or so. so loney still has time.

2005-11-14 20:08:11
217.   natepurcell
re 214

choi for the next 3 years then loney from age 24 and onward :)

2005-11-14 20:10:53
218.   Sam DC
214 He sounds like the perfect third for Molokai's Tim Duncan outfield (Drew, Abreu, Loney). Or is he only viable at first?
2005-11-14 20:10:56
219.   natepurcell
lets do a bradley for oliver perez deal.

how about it? perez is going to get expensive, he sucked last year and tracy likes bradley.

2005-11-14 20:12:26
220.   natepurcell
He sounds like the perfect third for Molokai's Tim Duncan outfield (Drew, Abreu, Loney). Or is he only viable at first?

i really dont know. hes played some outfield, but not extensive time there. Loney is pretty athletic, and he does have a very strong arm. Its possible, im sure the dodgers will explore it.

2005-11-14 20:27:39
221.   scareduck
200 - I think the 2006 team is a potential contender if we are moderately aggressive in the offseason.

A contender for the division? Maybe. A contender for the pennant? Can I have some of what you're smoking?

- Mediocre starting pitching (and remember, they're letting a lot of those innings walk in the form of Jeff Weaver)
- Pretty good offense if they keep Bradley around, but remember even if they do he's an injury magnet, and so are Jayson Werth (who's questionable as a starter) and J.D. Drew. Offense at the corners is still unsettled -- there's still a random platoon of nobodies at third, and Hee Seop Choi plus another helping of a 35-year-old Olmedo Saenz at first. Shortstop will be a series of stopgaps until the slumpalicious, somewhat overrated-by-the-average-Dodger-fan Izturis can make it back.

Outside the NL West, the Dodgers are looking at a lot of losses.

2005-11-14 20:28:04
222.   regfairfield
219 I just heard this from a freind, so it might not be true, but I heard the following story about Oliver Perez.

Oliver Perez has an amazing 2004, so we begin our scene in the 2004 offseason with Perez entering Dave Littlefield's office.

Perez: Hi Dave, I'm 24 years old and I just lead the majors in K/9. Pay Oliver.

Littlefield: You know, I rather enjoy getting that kind of production for 300 thousand dollars, so I'm going to say no.

Perez then proceeded to do nothing in the offseason but sit on the couch and eat Fritos. (I just made this part up, it could have very well been Pringles.) Oliver then proceeds to put up a six ERA in the next season.

End scene.

2005-11-14 20:30:55
223.   natepurcell
even better. more incentive for them to trade him.

one talented malcontent for another. each team addresses each others needs.

yay happy ending!

2005-11-14 20:31:12
224.   D4P
"End scene."

Nice Tobias reference.

2005-11-14 20:31:49
225.   D4P
Doesn't trading Bradley create another need for the Dodgers?
2005-11-14 20:34:21
226.   natepurcell
Doesn't trading Bradley create another need for the Dodgers?

i am foolishly assuming we are signing giles :)

2005-11-14 20:34:41
227.   regfairfield
223 Bradley's malcontentness doesn't scare me since it doesn't really effect the team.

Malcontents that don't hurt the performance of the team don't effect my opinion of them. Perez's Frito eating session cost the Pirates their best pitcher.

2005-11-14 20:34:59
228.   Steve
I feel slightly mollified. Slightly. Though everytime I read something like that, I harbor suspicions that we have Jason Repko times ten down there.
2005-11-14 20:35:45
229.   D4P
...and that Drew won't get hurt again:)
2005-11-14 20:37:50
230.   Sam DC
Nate -- did you ever publish your 2006 masterwork? Or did it get OBE?
2005-11-14 20:37:50
231.   King of the Hobos
225 Yes, but having a monopoly on left handed O. Perez's would fill another hole, SP. Look at the Perez's circa 2004, that's a good rotation. We just need to hope 2005 is a worthless year for them
2005-11-14 20:40:56
232.   Jon Weisman
222, 224 - it should be, "And ... scene."
2005-11-14 20:41:53
233.   D4P
Thanks. I could never tell whether he was saying "end" or "and".
2005-11-14 20:43:39
234.   regfairfield
232 I was hoping no one would notice that.
2005-11-14 20:47:37
235.   natepurcell
im getting impatient with this GM search. Hurry up frank.
2005-11-14 20:50:24
236.   D4P
Monopoly on left handed O. Perez's = Marvin Gardens

Monopoly on (s)crappy Ja(y)sons = Baltic Avenue

2005-11-14 20:51:01
237.   natepurcell
im going to be asking for AD season II for christmas, any other reccomendations?
2005-11-14 20:52:31
238.   natepurcell
re 230

what does OBE mean again?

2005-11-14 20:53:03
239.   D4P
AD Season I
2005-11-14 20:54:03
240.   natepurcell
i already have that d4p
2005-11-14 20:55:29
241.   natepurcell
i was thinking of the Office (US version) season 1.

Michael Scott makes me laugh in everything he's in.

2005-11-14 20:56:08
242.   natepurcell
i mean Steve Carell, he plays Scott on the show.
2005-11-14 20:56:27
243.   D4P
Oh. Well, Scrubs is a pretty good show. My wife and I had never seen it until this summer, when we watched all 4 seasons in about a month.
2005-11-14 20:57:39
244.   sanchez101
235. If we dont see a new GM hired by the end of this week, it probably means that McCourt is purposefully delaying a hire just to avoid paying for free agents.
2005-11-14 20:59:04
245.   Sam DC
238 Well, in this context it meant Overtaken By Events (why work on a masterplan when the house is in flames). It can also mean Officer of the Order of the British Empire which, from memory, is some sort of civilian honor bestowed by the Monarch of England -- a temp title that is not hereditary, that grows out of particular acts of service to the realm.
2005-11-14 20:59:42
246.   natepurcell
If we dont see a new GM hired by the end of this week, it probably means that McCourt is purposefully delaying a hire just to avoid paying for free agents

or hes waiting for Theos answer?

2005-11-14 21:02:03
247.   sanchez101
246. we can hope, but i wouldnt trust the mccourts

for anyone watching MNF, roy williams just ended philadelphia's season

2005-11-14 21:04:48
248.   Bob Timmermann

Marvin Gardens isn't a great paying property in Monopoly because people don't land on it as often as other squares. The best investments are the oranges and reds. If you control the oranges and reds, you will win almost all the time.

It's sort of a Moneyball approach to Monopoly. Go after the undervalued properties that pay off more than you think while others are taken in by the gaudy numbers of Boardwalk and Park Place.

2005-11-14 21:05:47
249.   natepurcell
re 245

okay i get it now. I think im going to wait until at least the fire is put out and see where we are when the smoke settles. But i did send it in to Mccourt along with my resume and i havent gotten a reply.

i only assume its because i dont have "real" baseball experience.

2005-11-14 21:09:07
250.   Steve
Monopoly on (s)crappy Ja(y)sons = Go To Jail

Dave Roberts = Just visiting

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-14 21:10:21
251.   sanchez101
249. and Mccourt does?
2005-11-14 21:11:24
252.   fanerman
248 - If you get the light blues early in the game when the money supply is somewhat low, they're just as good or better than the oranges.
2005-11-14 21:12:45
253.   Steve
Jason Phillips = Income Tax
2005-11-14 21:13:23
254.   Steve
Derek Lowe = Luxury Tax
2005-11-14 21:17:33
255.   sanchez101
248. 252. Dont you guys understand that monopoly isnt about the numbers, its about the feel of the dice, the flip of the cards, that little hat. "Real" monopoly players have the gut feel to know what properties to own. Spread sheets dont win monopoly games.
2005-11-14 21:17:58
256.   Bob Timmermann
Did anyone playing Monopoly ever bother to count their money and property to see if it was a better deal to pay the income tax minimum of $200 or see if paying 10% was a better deal?
2005-11-14 21:19:42
257.   fanerman
256 - Shyly raises hand...
2005-11-14 21:20:26
258.   Vishal
[166] it's actually "pidgin", which is a homophone.
2005-11-14 21:21:03
259.   Uncle Miltie
nate- Da Ali G show and Chappelle's Show seasons 1 & 2 (you might already own them)
2005-11-14 21:21:59
260.   Vishal
[256] i usually just did a quick and dirty estimate in my head. did it add up to more or less than $2000?
2005-11-14 21:22:20
261.   regfairfield
256 Well, sort of. I know I start with 1500 dollars. I figure barring catasrophe, I'll be over that amount around the third circut.

At least when I played, anyone who tried to count it out got dice hurled at them.

2005-11-14 21:22:37
262.   Vishal
[259] did you hear that kazakhstan is threatening legal action because they're upset over borat?
2005-11-14 21:23:03
263.   Uncle Miltie
Why does my gym turn the heat on? Does anyone else have this problem? It's really annoying. When I am running, I want it to be cool, not hot!
2005-11-14 21:25:38
264.   Uncle Miltie
262- no, that's BS! I just started watching the show because one of my friends recommended it.
2005-11-14 21:26:11
265.   Bob Timmermann
I think people forget that you have to count your mortgaged properties at full value.

It's been a while since I've played. My nephews aren't old enough to grasp the rules. Maybe I should buy it for them for Christmas and then wax them.

In light of the fact that one of my nephews will barely be able to speak English will make my victory all the sweeter!

2005-11-14 21:28:35
266.   natepurcell
nate- Da Ali G show and Chappelle's Show seasons 1 & 2 (you might already own them)

my brother has both of those, along with the southparks and family guys. So im covered in that area (since i can always "borrow" them for months at a time).

he doesnt like british style humor shows, or "thinking man's humor" like AD, office, curb, etc so im usually the one that gets those.

what i do have though that i dont know why i love it so much and laugh at every single thing are both wild boys seasons 1 and 2. makes me laugh every single time.

2005-11-14 21:30:35
267.   Steve
How in the world did Neifi Perez just get $5 million? How did that happen? And Ned Colletti is "respected across baseball?" God help us all.
2005-11-14 21:30:55
268.   das411
So everybody else who thought going into tonight that we should have benched McNabb instead of Owens, raise your hand.

Not so fast, Steve.

247 - Yup, and he did it last season too when he broke our best player's leg. Amazing how many breaks Dallas got on those horse-collar tackles, I must have seen half a dozen and they didn't call any. Grrr...

2005-11-14 21:34:11
269.   Uncle Miltie
267- Neifi has the intangibles and he approaches life the right way...and he's a really good bunter
2005-11-14 21:37:02
270.   regfairfield
Hee Seop Choi - Pretty decent player, and about to be abondoned by his third team that never gave him a chance.

Neifi Perez - The worst hitter of the past decade. Has signed multiple contracts for five million dollars. This is the type of thing the Dodgers have to look forward to.

2005-11-14 21:37:13
271.   Steve
Who's McNabb?
2005-11-14 21:38:19
272.   fanerman
There's still a good chance of Ng...
2005-11-14 21:39:14
273.   regfairfield
Neifi Perez career OPS+: 65.
2005-11-14 21:39:48
274.   natepurcell
DT is going to be a blast with all the funny coletti jabs if he is hired.
2005-11-14 21:40:15
275.   sanchez101
267. i really dont understand how he got $5 million. Ok, obviously Chicago wanted him back, but why for so much? Was $5 million their opening offer, or was perez's agent able to negotiate up to that number? Which scenario says less for the Cubs front office?
2005-11-14 21:42:57
276.   natepurcell
5 mil for 2 yrs right?
2005-11-14 21:44:12
277.   sanchez101
if coletti become the Dodger GM, the NL west will be scarry bad over the rest of the decade
2005-11-14 21:45:18
278.   Vishal
[273] when in reference to neifi perez, they should call it OPS-
2005-11-14 21:47:07
279.   sanchez101
ya, a cool 5 mil for two years
2005-11-14 21:51:52
280.   sanchez101
if kazhakstan can sue over Borat, can Cubs fans sue over Neifi?
2005-11-14 21:53:57
281.   das411
271 - The NFL counterpart to J. D. Drew, complete with the being driven out of Philadelphia after tonight's game.

Looking at Jon's little counter, 8 players on the "current" roster are on the books for more than Neifi's $2.5m/yr.

Lowe, Penny, OPerez, Gagne, Drew, Kent, Cruz Jr, and Izturis. Just food for thought.

2005-11-14 22:01:29
282.   natepurcell
so the cubs are thinking about trading reynol pinto and rich hill for juan pierre?

seems a little much dont you think?

2005-11-14 22:04:37
283.   sanchez101
if neifi perez is worth $5 million, pierre is worth a lot more than rich hill and reynol pinto
2005-11-14 22:09:10
284.   Steve
Geez. We could offer Repko. At least he's younger.
2005-11-14 22:17:25
285.   King of the Hobos
282 Where did you get those names? The only places I've seen them are just speculating. The Cubs do have a lot of pitching though, so this wouldn't completely surprise me if those names are correct

I still wish we could get Hill. Lefties that average 12.5 K/9 in the minors are not real common (although I'd prefer Perez as he's more establisehed, and probably impossible to acquire)

2005-11-14 22:23:57
286.   King of the Hobos
This source is extremely questionable, but someone on (there went the credibility) said the Rick Ballou show on 1540 announced Epstein has removed himslef from the running. I've never heard of that show, which doesn't help. Sorry if this is completely wrong
2005-11-14 22:25:54
287.   fanerman
286 - It's more likely to (eventually) be true than not.
2005-11-14 22:26:29
288.   sanchez101
uh, is using the rick ballou show as a source? why do we pay attention to that site? That doesnt even sound like a real name
2005-11-14 22:26:57
289.   dzzrtRatt
221 I'm not putting LA with the elite teams, but I think it's more than likely that we can field a team built around Kent, Drew and Choi in the lineup, and Penny, Lowe and Gagne pitching, assuming we bring in a few more pieces, and contend for the division.

Hell, we contended last season. Technically.

My real point was this. Around this site there's a feeling that next season is to be endured until the Suns start arriving en masse in 2007 to fill up the lineup and rotation with prodigious talent. I have no doubt they will start arriving by then, and that eventually some combination of them will make the Dodgers a lot better--eventually.

But a lineup full of kids, no matter how talented, is likely to finish near the bottom in 2007. So I guess what I was really trying to say is, our chances of contending next season are better than they are likely to be again for a few years.

It's also a roundabout way of arguing to keep Jeff Kent. Yeah, we could get "value" for him in a trade, but I doubt we could get equivalent value in the form of major league talent. No one's giving up Jake Peavey for one year of 38 year old Jeff Kent. It would have to be prospects and might-be's, and we've already got plenty of those. So, I say, let's keep him, and try to do something with him. Prudently.

2005-11-14 22:28:07
290.   King of the Hobos

I guess Ballou is real, and he actually does a sports show (that surprises me a bit)

2005-11-14 22:30:12
291.   sanchez101
286. was it an article on, i cant find it?
2005-11-14 22:35:51
292.   natepurcell
i know a kurt ballou, although he doesnt do sports- hes a guitarist in a band called converge. never heard of Kurt though.
2005-11-14 22:36:40
293.   fanerman
291 - I'm guessing it's on the forums.
2005-11-14 22:38:51
294.   natepurcell
i mean, rick. doh!
2005-11-14 22:38:57
295.   King of the Hobos
291 Forums. Like I said, almost no credibility ('almost' probably isn't needed). Just thought I'd post it in case someone here knew something about it, or cared. I really hate posting unsubstantiated rumors here, but I couldn't resist...sorry
2005-11-14 22:44:12
296.   dzzrtRatt
Any relation to the famous broadcaster Wally Ballou?
2005-11-14 22:48:34
297.   LAT
I know of a Ballou the Bear (really Baloo). No radio show but he lived in the jungle with a kid named Mowgli.
2005-11-14 22:52:20
298.   LAT
I have now read through most of this thread.

If anyone thinks Frank and Jamie are going to give Theo or anyone else an equity stake in the Dodgers, ala Magic Johnson, you are out of your tree. Not even if the Babe himself arose from the grave.

2005-11-14 22:53:01
299.   natepurcell
so who else is staying up so they can see if henson has anything worth while to report on the dodgers GM front?

(raises hand)

2005-11-14 22:54:03
300.   fanerman
299 - I'll be up for awhile because of midterms. When will his article be posted?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-14 22:55:25
301.   Steve
Don't you have to have equity before you go around giving equity stakes?
2005-11-14 22:56:17
302.   natepurcell
if the yanks are interested in bradley, i would rather have duncan than cabrera. after his crappy year this year, his value should be down.
2005-11-14 22:59:42
303.   LAT
301. Steve, as always, very astute point. Can't give what you don't have. That must be why Theo won't take the job. . .Not!
2005-11-14 23:06:19
304.   Steve
Why in the world would Epstein take a job DePodesta just got fired from, and have to deal with all that Dodger Way nonsense? That makes no sense. Better to wait for Washington, where they are hoping not to establish a "Way" before they are finally rid of the two-headed Bowden/Robinson monster.
2005-11-14 23:06:24
305.   LAT

The spelling bee aspect of this thread reminds me of an issue that had been discussed here some time ago. Any chance of putting a spell check on the preview page for those of us who have never won a spelling bee, much less qualified for one. And no, I can't spell "chabatta."

2005-11-14 23:21:52
306.   Uncle Miltie
I'd take the job if I were Epstein, IF the following conditions were met:
-An annual salary of $2.5 million for 4 years, with an escape clause after year 3.
-No one would be above me except Frank McCourt
-Frank McCourt would not make any decisions regarding the team on the field (besides getting rid of Bradley), other members of the front office, and the coaching staff
-A 3 % stake in ownership
-A promise that the payroll will be around $90 million. If promise is not met (i.e. Frank decides he wants to cut the payroll to $75-80 million, and then an escape clause is added to Theo's contract after year 2).
-Will not work with a PR coach!
-Will have the authority to fire Tommy Lasorda or send him back to Japan

McCourt is desperate. He is going to have to give into Theo's demands if he really wants him and there are going to be plenty.

2005-11-14 23:28:43
307.   LAT
McCourt is desperate. He is going to have to give into Theo's demands if he really wants him and there are going to be plenty.

Key words: if he really wants him. Frank doesn't really want Theo. As you correctly note, Theo wants way too much money and control. The two things Frank can't/won't give up. In additon, Frank doesn't want a guy that just came from the second highest payroll in ML history. Finally Frank doesn't want someone who is going to show him up. Remember the "brand" is McCourt and the "product" is the Dodgers.

2005-11-14 23:29:29
308.   fanerman
I wonder if the McCourts now think that firing DePo was a bad idea after all. Of course any reasonable owner would think so and wouldn't have fired DePo in the first place, but the McCourts are certainly not reasonable owners. Still, I wonder if they realize that they screwed up.
2005-11-14 23:33:18
309.   dzzrtRatt
306 McCourt is desperate. Not enough, I fear. He's got respectable options in Ng and Colletti. Before more candidates can turn him down, I think he will name one of them GM. Tommy is probably holding out for some old ghost (Don Zimmer! Joey Amalfitano! Steve Yeager! Don Newcombe!), and the fantasy of Theo redeeming McCourt's good name lingers over the horizon. But my money's on that staying a fantasy. Especially if Theo's terms resemble Uncle Miltie's.

Theo: "What he said."

McCourt: "Ah...I don't have $90 million. I was just bluffing before about $100 million. I was hoping that would make the Giants spend $100 million, they'd go broke and I could pick up that nice ballpark of theirs for a song. Great site for condos."

Theo: "Oh, wait. There's been a cancellation at the Zen monastery. I can go on my retreat. Peace, man!"

2005-11-14 23:35:42
310.   Uncle Miltie
308- no. They made Billy Plaschke and TJ Simers happy (for now)
2005-11-14 23:37:00
311.   fanerman
I think I missed the part where McCourt said (or implied) that the payroll goal was never around $100 million. Was that at his "new GM search" press conference when he said the payroll would be "high enough to win" or something like that?
2005-11-14 23:42:12
312.   fanerman
310 - Plasche was as giddy as a school girl, but even Simers wasn't very happy right? They have no GM and the winter meetings are coming. Every candidate they've wanted has rejected them. Unless the plan was to have no GM so they would have an excuse not to sign free agents, they have to be worried, right? Well, I guess a reasonable person would be worried.

If the McCourts are in as much financial trouble as some people think, is "winning now" not just a PR goal but a financial one as well? ie, another losing season and attendance starts going down and the McCourts can no longer afford to own the Dodgers?

2005-11-14 23:46:20
313.   slackfarmer
306 Here's my unrealistic dream scenario:
Desperate Frank hires Theo as President of Baseball Operation and gives him free reign over players, coachs and front office. Then Theo hires Depo as his new GM.
2005-11-14 23:48:54
314.   fanerman
313 - Then DePo hires Dan Evans to be GM. Or Theo fires Lasorda and hires Dan Evans to be Special Advisor.
2005-11-14 23:53:02
315.   fanerman
In 314, that's Dan Evans to be manager.
2005-11-15 00:05:00
316.   LAT
I wonder if Tommy has been marginalized throughout this process. Assuming certain facts are true (always dangerous): he convinced Frank to dump Depo for Gillick and Bobby Valentine (now known as "Bobby Beer"). Three moves, three+ mistakes.

First, the heat is off Depo and on Frank.

Two, Gillick says no fast leaving only second choices, of which Frank and Tommy had none.

Third, Bobby V. re-signs in Japan for $4 big ones. A bidding war Frank could not even begin to enter.

Tommy's advice could not have been more wrong. Frank has to see that now. Although Frank is laughing all the way to the bank, Tommy's bad counsel has shown Frank for the clueless ego maniac that he is. The way Frank fires people, I have to believe Tommy's seat in the owners box is not as secure as it was three weeks ago.

(BTW, Its getting mighty lonely in that owners box.)

2005-11-15 00:06:57
317.   LAT
315. Would Kim Ng be his bench coach?
2005-11-15 00:13:31
318.   fanerman
316 - Almost like a Greek tragedy. Except McCourt doesn't seem like much of a tragic hero.

317 - She can still be AGM. Theo only stays for 3 years, tops. Long enough for the Dodgers to win a WS. Then Theo goes to perform another miracle somewhere else. And Kim Ng takes the wheels.

2005-11-15 00:15:24
319.   dzzrtRatt
Henson: It's down to Ng and Colletti and McCourt's leaning toward Colletti. Theo's out. Announcement before McCourt leaves for Milwaukee on Wednesday.

2005-11-15 00:22:36
320.   dzzrtRatt
A different reality at the Daily News, where Tony Jackson's story has it that Theo was in Los Angeles this weekend and was made an offer, but has asked for more time until he can see whether the ownership group with which he has ties will buy the Nats. Jackson, unlike Henson, portrays McCourt as in no hurry, and possibly willing to wait for a "star" that makes a statement about McCourt's ownership. ("The brand, boss. The brand!")

2005-11-15 00:30:52
321.   trainwreck
Come on Daily News need you to be right on this one. Please not be Colletti. Please hire Kim!
2005-11-15 00:33:54
322.   slackfarmer
320 The saddest quote from the article comes from a supposed Dodger insider:
"Frank doesn't think that way . . . he isn't worried about putting a team together. In his mind right now, this GM job is first and foremost a statement of his ownership, which is why he wants to put a star in that position. This is more about show than substance"

How sad. Winning takes a back seat to PR.

2005-11-15 00:35:41
323.   LAT
Yeah sure, Frank didn't hire Theo because he didn't want to mess with a prospective owner who might buy the Nats and might hire Theo and MLB couldn't give him assurences fast enough. (Has Frank forgotten he already used this lame excuse not to sign Vladdy). How about the truth: Theo wouldn't get within 100 miles of the Dodgers.

I would laugh my ass off if Colletti were offered the job and then turned it down. How much more embarassing could this get for Frank.

Finally, can you believe this horse's ass has the nerve to say "we'll move as aggressively as is prudent." Didn't he tell us after he fired Depo that he was going to be aggressive. How stupid does he take us for. That is the offensive part of this. I realize its his right to destroy my team but to feed me such insulting drival. Ugh!

Its only a matter of time before someone, hopefully Simmers, does a piece with McCourt's words on one side and the truth on the other. Although the lies and empty promisies would take up too much space.

2005-11-15 00:52:02
324.   dzzrtRatt
Maybe both stories are trial balloons. If it looks like Dodger media and fans are okay with Ng as interim GM while he waits for Theo's situation to resolve, he'll do that. If the polls show Dodger fans impatient to hear McCourt's "statement," he'll make the call this week.

I don't know where McCourt's PR minions would go to gauge instant reaction. Maybe they read posts at boards. Bob Timmerman might want to do call forwarding to ensure he doesn't miss the pollster's query.

2005-11-15 00:54:08
325.   Bob Timmermann
I think my chances of making it in to the paid focus group are slight. I'm sure they would have contacted me by now. And they might be calling it off because of the reaction to it.
2005-11-15 01:17:42
326.   dzzrtRatt
Great quote in the Riverside P-E from Camille Johnston on when the McCourts will announce their GM:

"I'm certain they'll name one once they're ready to name one," Johnston said.

Yeah, that's probably the timetable.

2005-11-15 05:13:02
327.   D4P
They're going overboard with the "mutual decision" claims. Looks like Theo came to a mutual decision by himself.

"Former Boston GM Theo Epstein had preliminary conversations with McCourt last week, but after consulting with friends within baseball apparently came to a mutual decision with the Dodgers that the job wasn't for him."

2005-11-15 06:21:26
328.   Vishal
[292] hell yes, converge is amazing.
2005-11-15 06:59:13
329.   Kevin Maxwell
If this same position were available in the company I work for, I wouldn't recommend it to any of my colleagues working elsewhere.
The Dodgers lack an ownership/management philosophy. The Dodgers have baseball players, but the McCourts don't know how to run a baseball organization. The only person that makes sense in this position is a first time GM that takes it for the experience with nothing to loose.
2005-11-15 07:27:10
330.   zappala
322 I'm not a McCourt apologist, but you misused the quote. In entirety, it reads:

"Frank doesn't think that way," one source with Dodgers ties said. "He has given orders to Kim and Roy to move forward and negotiate. Under that concept, he isn't worried about putting a team together. In his mind right now, this GM job is first and foremost a statement of his ownership, which is why he wants to put a star in that position."

The reason he's not worried is that he's got Ng handling moves right now. You may fault him because these moves may not end up being what the new GM wants. But it obviously sends a signal that he is comfortable should Ng end up with the job. The real message is that he can let Ng work on putting the team together while at the same time he can then try to pursue his "star" GM. If he ends up with no "star", then Ng has the job anyway.

2005-11-15 07:30:16
331.   King of the Hobos
If this is all a PR stunt, why would we hire Colletti? Sure, he's a good public speaker, but he's a lontime Giant, which will hardly make the media love McCourt. Ng however allows McCourt to be the first owner to hire a female GM, which seems like a far more rewarding hire, PR-wise. Of course, I have no idea what kind of public speaker Ng is

If Colletti is hired, and assuming Ng stays, then who does contract negtiations? They're both considered some of the best, and I don't think they'd be extremely willing to allow the other to do it

2005-11-15 07:57:30
332.   Sam DC
You've gotta wonder if Ng would really stay if the team passed her over to hire someone else's AGM.
2005-11-15 07:58:10
333.   TheDictator
Its been a while since I have posted so I thought I would give my 2 cents.

Someone above nailed this correctly, Tommy Lasorda seems to have suceeded in firing the sabermetric guys but his choices all left town. One wonders where Frank McCourt is on all of this. He is getting more bad press with everyone turning the GM job down than he got with DePo in town. Before the firing it was all about the Dodgers losing record, now the media is fixiated with McCourt's inability to hire a GM.

I think it was here that the two brilliant articles on McCourt's management style was linked. McCourt is not an idiot, he is just running the Dodgers the way he has run all of his real estate adventures. That is why PR is so important to him. That is why I think if things fall in place with the Nats, Theo Epstein will be the GM. McCourt needs a big score for his image that he wrongly thinks will enhance the value of his team.

Earth to McCourt: wins, not image enhances value in baseball. more value = more money.

McCourt is smarter than we think. I predict in a few years (or a nice berating from the Comish and other owners at the upcoming meetings for making baseball owners look like fools with his management problems) he will figure out that running a baseball team is different from a real estate adventure. Once he discovers the media is an annoyance that will not enhance the value of the Dodgers he will care less about is own image and make the Dodgers the brand.

Predictions? I guess it is more like my wishful thinking . . .

2005-11-15 08:12:37
334.   SiGeg
332 -- I was just going to make the same comment. And I have no doubt that she could get a job somewhere else, although it may be a bit late for that this year.
2005-11-15 08:27:20
335.   willhite
If Colletti is the new GM, we can ponder the following questions:

1) Since both Colletti and Ng excel in contract negotiations and neither is known for player analysis, does that leave two people doing the same job and Ng on her way out the door?

2) If Ng leaves, does that open the way for Orel to be the player analysis guy in the front office?

3) Is Ron Wotus the next Dodger Mgr?

4) Does the Dodger opening day lineup include J.T. Snow, Edgardo Alfonso and Marquis Grissom?

5) What kind of relationship do Colletti and Kent have?

6) When Kent met with McCourt just before DePo was fired, did the subject of Colletti come up?

2005-11-15 08:35:57
336.   Bob Timmermann
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
2005-11-15 08:36:44
337.   Curtis Lowe
How would hiring Colletti over Ng make any sense? Ng was part of 4 winners, where Colletti wrote 4 underachieving books. Major basball executives have publicly endorsed Ng, unfortunatly for friendly Colletti he has yet to have any well respected exec. to endorse him. If Colletti is hired over Ng then Im afraid all will be lost.

Help us Obi Wan Kenobi your our only hope.

2005-11-15 08:40:36
338.   willhite
336 -
The inmates may be running the asylum
2005-11-15 08:54:30
339.   Curtis Lowe
336-A plethora of cliche' movie quotes such as

We're not in Kansas anymore and Houston we have a problem.

McCourt: You gotta be asking yourself one question, Did he fire 6 or fire 5? Well do you feel lucky? Well do ya Punk!

2005-11-15 08:55:21
340.   Mark
Hello again everyone, I'm glad the Epstein-to-the-Dodgers rumors fizzled themselves out again without my help in quashing the impossible dreams.

Anyone care to place a friendly wager? Dodgers GM vs. Iraq rollout plan?

2005-11-15 09:19:28
341.   Colorado Blue
I believe the new GM of the Dodgers will be Ng or Epstein... In fact, McCourt-jester is probably waiting for Theo to make his decision. If he declines then Ng is our next GM.
2005-11-15 09:22:52
342.   jasonungar05
I cannot protect you, Luke. If you choose to face the McCourts, you will do it alone. Once you've made this decision, I cannot interfere.
2005-11-15 09:42:29
343.   JeffinTokyo
I was found an article on the Dodgers' GM search at the most unlikely website:
2005-11-15 09:57:09
344.   Jon Weisman
343 - Yeah, we ran through that one pretty quickly the other day, Jeff.

New post up top.

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