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Dodger Squaretable with Jaffe, Lederer and McMillin
2005-11-18 07:03
by Jon Weisman

Shortly after the Dodgers hired Ned Colletti as general manager, bloggers Jay Jaffe of The Futility Infielder, Rich Lederer of Baseball Analysts and Rob McMillin of 6-4-2 joined me in chatting about the future of the team under Colletti. And amazingly, someone unbeknownst to us recorded the entire conversation. Here's their EXCLUSIVE tape:

Jon: So, we meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss?  I'm not convinced there are likely to be as many significant differences between Colletti and Paul DePodesta as people think, considering that signings like Derek Lowe and Jose Valentin might fit right in with Colletti's resume.  Maybe DePodesta and Colletti will be like night and day - I'm just not sure.  However, there are some signs that Colletti might be less protective of the Dodger farm system - one difference that could prove huge. What are your initial thoughts?

Jay: I'm pretty uninspired by the choice; at first glance, Colletti seems like a graduate of the Anonymous Ciphers of Middle Management University. His purported strengths - "communication," "leadership," "chemistry," "experience," "old-school," "street smarts" - position him as the anti-DePodesta almost a little too perfectly, as does his background in sportswriting and PR. I mean, he sounds like Frank McCourt's wet dream. That alone is pretty scary.

Rich: Well, Jay, I wouldn't hold those attributes against Colletti as much as I would blame Camille Johnston, the town's new spin mistress.  She is getting paid to say all the right things and make the McCourts look as good as possible, which, I might add, isn't a particularly easy thing to do at this point.

Rob: As with DePodesta, Colletti comes into the office with no apparent track record, unless you take seriously his comments from the 2003 Baseball Prospectus interview in which he says Giants GM Brian Sabean delegated much of the workload. The Giants have pretty consistently gone for veterans over youth, and have had a weak track record building their major league club directly from their farm. Some of this can be laid at the feet of Barry Bonds, who wants a ring before he retires, and the generally poor drafts the Giants have had lately; who knows what Colletti would do with a stronger farm system. But even Frank should be able to see that he can't win on the cheap and gut the farm system, limiting the amount of damage Colletti can do in 2006.

Jay: I really hope he gets a firm grasp on how strong the Dodger system is before he does anything rash. Sure, there are prospects there for the trading, as well as some who are certainly worth waiting for. He's got a great staff in place when it comes to the minor-league system in Kim Ng, Roy Smith, Terry Collins and Logan White, and he'd do well not to mess with what's not broken there and to listen to what they have to say.

I think we'll learn a lot more about Colletti as he searches for a manager. I'm just not so sure we're going to like what we learn.

Jon: Rob, your point about Bonds is well-taken, in that there is no obvious ticking clock for the Dodgers to win a World Series in 2006.  And there's kind of this oxymoronic aspect to the team right now, in that so many people have decided that team is in terrible shape (hence DePodesta gets fired, though his firing may have had more to do with wanting Collins to manage), but at the same time, will people be satisfied with anything less than a division title next year?  I, for one, might be consoled at this point just to see signs that the Dodgers are moving in a cohesive, cogent direction again.  But if there's one thing we've observed about the McCourts so far, they are not a patient bunch.  

Rich: "Patient" is not a word in the McCourt dictionary.  The Dodgers, more than anything, need some stability here.  But change usually begets change.  It would be foolish not to expect Colletti to shake things up a bit.  That is just human nature.  As a result, I think he will do much more than just hire the next manager.

Jon: Another irony, in that failure to embrace continuity was another of DePodesta's supposed sins.  Of course, Colletti will have the rationale of repairing a 71-win team, as opposed to a team that won a division title but still needed tuning up.

Rob: How can Colletti not do more than just hire the next manager? There's no coaching staff, the director of international scouting quit, their AAA minor league club is without a pitching coach. Seeing how promotion passed Ng by for at least the third time in two years, she's a good candidate to leave, too. They're lucky Carl's, Jr. hasn't closed their loge level concessions.  

Jon: Ooh, I have to disagree with your last statement.  We can do better.  

Jay: Barring some catastrophically bad decision-making - and having just chatted with Giants fan Tom Gorman for his perspective on the hiring, likely coming soon to you in a BP article, I'm braced for Colletti to show he's clueless in player evaluation, trade blue chip prospects and hand out stupid dollars to aged free agents - it would be very hard for the Dodgers to bottom out any further than they did in 2005. They'll heal from their injuries, bounce back and contend in 2006 with a team that largely bears the stamp of DePodesta, just as DePodesta won with a team that bore no small amount of Dan Evans' fingerprints. It won't be fair, but then fairness has hardly been a hallmark of the McCourt regime.  

Will that be enough for fans? I'm sure there will be no shortage of spin hyping what a breath of fresh air Colletti is after the demise of "Google Boy," and a lot of the optimism of the pre-division winning Tracy years will return. With the knowledge that the big dividends from the farm system ought to start paying off in 2007, it'll probably be enough. And if the catastrophe ensues, we'll see McCourt's corpse dangling from a lamppost. Which is win-win as far as I'm concerned.

Rich: I'm neither "for" nor "against" Colletti at this point.  It is obvious that he wasn't Frank's first choice.  In fact, he doesn't really fit the qualifications that McCourt set forth in the press conference when the Dodgers announced they were firing DePodesta ... oops, going in a different direction.  Yes, he has experience (although he's never sat in the corner office before), but does he really know what it means to be a Dodger?  He might be a good communicator, but does he truly have a "keen eye for baseball talent?"  If nothing else, call me confused. 

Jon: Well, while we resolve to be thoroughly guarded in our predictions for Colletti, let's try to set his agenda. Among other things, there is true mystery about who the Dodgers' third baseman and No. 5 (if not No. 4) starter will be, and true mystery about whether two statistically qualified players, Milton Bradley and Hee Seop Choi, will still be Dodgers by February.

Rob: If you agree the Dodgers need to wait until 2007 for Andy LaRoche to come up, well, that means another year of a stopgap at third. Jose Valentin having worn out his welcome by April, the Dodgers will have to get creative, unless they want to bring up LaRoche now. Also, going the free agency route doesn't appeal for pitching, as Jeff Weaver looks like he'll get a very big payday wherever he lands; does Scott Boras have a sports psychologist who deals exclusively with the psychic damage of high-priced mediocrities? Whatever happens, it won't be pretty and it won't be cheap, and possibly, it won't be short-term, either.

Jay: Third base is a position - maybe the only position - that the Dodgers have enough in-house to go stopgap with until LaRoche (or perhaps Joel Guzman) shows they're ready. Between Antonio Perez and Willy Aybar, you've got two young players who gave enough reasons to earn another look. I think other areas deserve more attention.

Rotation-wise, I think that's where the new GM is going to have an impact, for better or worse. Lowe, Penny, Perez, and Houlton/Jackson isn't going to be enough to get the job done, and Colletti might be thinking that he can use one of his better prospects in a package to get a more legitimate No. 1 starter. I'm not saying I want to see it happen, but there's enough on the farm to make a deal.

Rich: It all comes down to time horizon.  If you want to win next year, you upgrade the starting rotation, the corner infield spots, and left field via free agency or by trading prospects (like LaRoche or Guzman, Russ Martin or Dioner Navarro, Chad Billingsley or Chuck Tiffany, and Jonathan Broxton) plus Choi, Perez, Aybar, and Jayson Werth.  If you're not so worried about 2006, you might even do the opposite - you know, trade Eric Gagne and Jeff Kent for younger players who can help you in 2007 and beyond when the Dodgers could field one of the best teams in all of baseball.

Jon: I think the division still looks too weak, and that there is too much evidence of teams rising from the dead (like the phantom contender in Arizona this past year) for the Dodgers to give up on 2006.  Certainly, the Dodgers didn't flip GMs to sit back on 2006.  I think Colletti will pick and choose - go with kids in one place, sign a free agent for another position, trade a prospect to get a name vet in a third position.

Rich: I'm not saying the Dodgers will sit back on 2006.  I have no doubt that Colletti is going to try and deliver a winner for the McCourts this year.  The weak division will seduce them into thinking they can have their cake and eat it, too.  That's too bad because anything they do this offseason at the expense of the future will come back to bite them in the butt.

Jon: OK, I'm going to throw this out there as food for thought.  I wouldn't bet on it, and I've already been wrong once this month in predicting Kim Ng would get the GM job.  But there's a contrarian feeling in me that McCourt, however improbably, has been sandbagging on the budget, and will try to shock the world by raising the Dodger player payroll above the $75-$80 million that people have tossed around.

Rob: Here's some horror stories to scare your kids into being good, Jon: Carlos Beltran. Adrian Beltre. Jeromy Burnitz. Dave Roberts.  Character guys, all, and/or superstars, and/or former Dodgers expunged by the former regime(s) who only need the right chemistry.

Jay: Much as I'll be happy to see him gone, I think they're going to have to wait it out with Bradley if they want to get value for him. It's been a cold market because of the assumption that the Dodgers will non-tender him, and the injury - he may not be ready for spring training - adds another element of uncertainty to the mix. They'll have to go to arbitration with him, establish a market value, and then try to work a deal after he proves he's healthy enough. The other alternative is a "screw you" non-tender, but I think he's too valuable a commodity - to somebody - for that to happen.

Rich: Milton Bradley is history.  The game company and the player are no longer good fits for what people want today.  McCourt and Colletti seem to value "chemistry" - man, I haven't heard so much about chemistry since high school - so I think he will be traded or non-tendered.  J.D. Drew goes to CF, Jose Cruz holds down RF, and Colletti picks up a LF via free agency or trade.

Jay: Choi? Anybody's guess. The new A's first baseman, perhaps.

Rich: Before his career is over, that poor guy might find himself having worn more uniforms than Lou Piniella and Jim Fregosi (cough, cough).

Jon: Ah, the managerial vacancy.  I think maybe this is where I get off the bus.  Parting question: Does anyone else think that by hiring a guy so endearing to the press, the McCourts have blown their own cover? Come March, I suspect Colletti will get the credit for any positive vibes and the McCourts will get the blame for any negative ones.

Rob: I dunno... you might rather have Ned Flanders as a neighbor, but the star of the show is still Homer Simpson.

Jay: "Hi-dilly ho, neighborinos!" Good lord, there's the problem. I just can't have a guy named Ned in charge of the team, because if 16 years of Simpsons has taught me anything, it's never trust a guy named Ned. Man, I want to punch that stupid jerk Flanders...

Rich: I think you are spot-on there, Jon.  Even DePodesta could get some of the blame if Drew, Kent, and Lowe get hurt or don't perform well.  But he won't get any credit whatsoever if J.D. is healthy, plays 140+ games, hits over .300 with 30 HR and 100 BB and plays a Gold Glove-caliber center field -- all of which, I believe, is within the realms of possibility.

Comments (470)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-18 07:57:36
1.   Penarol1916
You know what, even with the taste of that Uruguay loss starting to fade, I'm still pretty down about this hire (who am I kidding, the taste hasn't even remotely started to fade, I haven't looked at a Uruguayan newspaper since Wednesday and have yet to go back to any soccer sites, in fact, I still couldn't spoil Bob for the results of the T&T and Bahrain game since I have no idea what has happened in world cup qualifying since early Wednesday morning).
Regardless, I think I'm with Jay Jaffe in this discussion, I just haven't seen anything to really recommend him at all.
2005-11-18 08:03:26
2.   SiGeg
Thanks for the squaretable. Nice discussion.

So, we meet the new boss. Same as the old boss? I'm not convinced there are likely to be as many significant differences between Colletti and Paul DePodesta as people think

Maybe it's true. I'm certainly trying to keep an open mind until actual moves are made. But you know what's depressing to me? The feel I get is that the whole thrust of the Dodger organization now is to be as much like everybody else as they can possibly be. Hire good old "baseball men" who know how to be "baseball men" like all the other "baseball men" who've also known about baseball. (So, you hire Fergosi because he's been places, not because of the place he could take you.) It's as if the idea isn't to aim higher than other organizations, to blaze trails and leave them behind, but simply to be as unremarkable as possible. I'm not saying that the GOAL is actually to be mediocre or not to win, but it's as if you're supposed to win by being more of an amalgam of "every other baseball team" than are any of your rivals. (Not sure that's clear. I guess it's hard to express.)

I realize that at this point, this feeling is mostly the result of the thrust of the PR spin. After all, supposedly we could end up with Collins as the manager, just as was the case when DePo was in charge (though I highly doubt it), and he's another guy whose been around before. And who knows what players we'll actually end up with? But if the spin is supposed to calm me down, make me somehow think that baseball adults are in charge now and everything will be OK, it doesn't work. It just makes me think that there's no reason to get my hopes up too high. I do worry that the road to respectability too often heads straight through mediocrity.

2005-11-18 08:15:31
3.   Bob Timmermann
I think there is a certain squeamishness in embracing a GM who comes with the Bill Plaschke/Mike Downey Seal of Approval. If the Dodgers play well, there will be plaudits for Colletti and the maneger, that may rival the accolades Mike Scioscia and Bill Stoneman get for waking up in the morning.

I agree with the comments in 2. The Dodgers plan du jour is to now be like all the other teams. Not to think differently. Not to be innovative. Even though the Dodgers past is full of innovative ideas: integration, statistical analysis, training methods.

There has to be some sort of sociological reason why baseball teams don't want to innovate. Why they want to operate like they did in the past. I wonder if much of it is a reaction to the increase in salaries and the greater power that players have. This makes baseball management and the media that covers them want to find something, anything, that might seem familiar to them.

I don't believe the McCourts are savvy enough to know why they are behaving the way they do. They are just grasping at branches as the swirling vortex of winds that is major league baseball buffet them about.

2005-11-18 08:36:35
4.   scareduck
3 - There has to be some sort of sociological reason why baseball teams don't want to innovate.

Winning teams don't need to. What they confuse is correlation (winners don't change their methods) with causation (if you keep doing the same things that cause you to lose, you will continue to lose). Stability isn't necessarily a good thing; ask the Devil Rays, whose front office has had, until this year, the same guy running the ship since inception.

2005-11-18 08:51:21
5.   gvette
But how in the world did Jim Fregosi become a leading candidate?

How did this progress from seemingly innocent quotes in the Times last week conveying his interest (which we dismissed as the usual statements from an underemployed baseball guy) into front runner?

As a fan, I respect him as very, very, good player 40 years ago, and for the "Yes We Can" Angels of '79, but this is really a stretch.

2005-11-18 09:11:02
6.   Steve
The Dodgers have contacted the agents for free-agent shortstops Rafael Furcal and Royce Clayton, both before Colletti was hired.

Good God almighty in heaven above, this pain will never end.

2005-11-18 09:21:14
7.   natepurcell
the royce clayton thing i think is for backup ss.

i mean i asked this the other day but with izzy out and only oscar as a decent defensive SS on the roster, who would back him up if he decided to get hurt in the first half of the year?

2005-11-18 09:21:34
8.   Jesse
The money he wants aside, I'd like Furcal over Izzy for his 28-32 year old seasons.
2005-11-18 09:22:55
9.   molokai
Did all the roundtable guys watch the Colletti introduction? He discounted TEAM chemistry and focused on individual character, two totally different things. We don't know how he defines character as it could mean many different things to many different people.
2005-11-18 09:23:19
10.   dzzrtRatt
There has to be some sort of sociological reason why baseball teams don't want to innovate.

I don't know about baseball teams in general, but for the Dodgers, I think the answer comes out of psychology (the armchair variety, of course!)

McCourt has deep feelings of inadequacy. He's like a guy who sold his life insurance policy to buy a membership in an exclusive country club. He's in the door but he doesn't really feel like he belongs, and fears that any minute someone's going to take a look at his bank account and toss him on his rear. That's a load of anxiety.

DePodesta only increased that level of anxiety because, for better or worse, he was "controversial." Plaschke and Keisser hated him, and the national media found him indecipherable. His innovations started to seem, to poor Frank, like yet another guy casting around for a plan, rather than a real plan. DePodesta was Frank's doppelganger, and out of self-loathing and fear of exposure, he had to kill his (good) twin. That explains why McCourt seemed so uncomfortable at the news conference. Like a character in a horror movie, he'd just shot his own image in the mirror.

Hiring Colletti is a "comfort" move. Yeah, it makes the Dodgers like every other team--which is exactly the protective coloration McCourt needs. Sure, he'd like to win, too. Winning in '04 made him feel like he "belonged." But now, even if the Dodgers don't win, McCourt's done something so utterly conventional, in accord with the rules of the club, that it won't raise the same fears of being tossed out.

A "comfort" manager like Fregosi (though Piniella would be better--I'm not sure Plaschke does cartwheels over Fregosi), combined with a "comfort" shortstop like Clayton and a "comfort" outfielder like Giles, further cements McCourt's feelings of safety and security. Now he can relax, tell jokes with the other members, take a few swings at the driving range, and feeling like his fraudulent heart will not be discovered--not yet anyway. Not til the bankers come knocking.

2005-11-18 09:24:07
11.   Jesse
clayton looks a lot like a more expensive robles. Clayton has less power, better base stealer, small comparison sample size.
2005-11-18 09:25:06
12.   Jon Weisman
7 - I'd rather it be Guzman than Clayton.

9 - I didn't buy into his discussion of individual character, since the individual characters that have been on the Giants are no better than anyone else's.

2005-11-18 09:26:12
13.   fanerman
Isn't Perez a decent SS? It's the hot corner he had problems with, right?
2005-11-18 09:30:27
14.   Jesse
I think Depo would've really enjoyed a "comfort" outfielder like Giles. An outifeld of Giles and (healthy) Drew would be a sabermetric wet dream. You could easily get 215 walks out of the two of them. Giles could fill an outfield gap without having to sacrifice the farm.
2005-11-18 09:32:15
15.   gvette
Probably wouldn't cost much to pry Alex Cora, and his inflated contract off the Red Sox bench.

Think of the McCourts' PR possibilities with that move.

2005-11-18 09:33:40
16.   Jesse
re: 13

Perez can hit, but, to the naked eye, there are reservations on his fielding ability. I think as a full time player his offensive comp could maybe be that of a Furcal (.285/ .350/.420. I don't see him getting a good look though.

2005-11-18 09:53:29
17.   dzzrtRatt
15 Actually, Clayton seems like a decent option to me, given Izturis' injury. I'd rather see ol' Royce out there every day for the first half than have to rely on Robles full-time. But Clayton's old enough where he's not going to demand a huge or lengthy contract.

That's why the Mike Lowell talk--which at first seemed absurd--has started to make sense. He's a one-year answer; how many of those are out there who has played at his level? He's Jose Valentin, except with more upside potential. He might or might not bounce back. He's in no position to make Boras-like demands for money or length of deal. He could work in tandem with Aybar, giving the manager options.

Colletti's going to be judged by how he addresses starting pitching, left field and right field--and oh yeah the manager. But how he solves the short-term problems at third and short are important micro-moves.

And maybe if he puts Clayton and Lowell on the roster, Choi's inexpensive contract and solid upside might get a pass for another year. Choi is so low-risk. If he's lousy, you can move Kent (or Lowell) to first, and play Aybar or Perez at second. He costs nothing. But if he comes around, he's a great tradeable asset when Loney arrives.

2005-11-18 09:55:09
18.   bigcpa

Per Jon's analysis here, Perez was the best defensive 3b we fielded last year. Even if we sign Nomar I'd like to see Perez filling out the left side over Robles.

2005-11-18 09:57:14
19.   regfairfield
17 This is the same Royce Clayton who in the last three years he wasn't on Colorado, but up OPSes of .661,.634, and .670. Combine this with a career defense ranging from average to bad, I don't see how he's any kind of option.
2005-11-18 09:58:56
20.   Bob Timmermann
Royce Clayton is a good bunter....
2005-11-18 10:02:26
21.   Johnson
But would it be productive to put Guzman in a backup SS role rather than allow him to continue developing at Vegas? I'm not sure I want our up-and-coming kids to up-and-sit. If it means Guzman gets a year of work in on his swing, I'll stomach the likes of Clayton backing up short for a year.
2005-11-18 10:05:14
22.   regfairfield
21 Wouldn't you just call up Guzman and have him start if someone gets hurt?
2005-11-18 10:10:17
23.   bigcpa
The Furcal mention makes no sense. He's going to get the Renteria contract or more. Would he play over Izturis after the AS Break? At least Nomar can play SS and 3rd.

Re: LF Giles seems to want to play for a sure-winner so I'm pessimistic we can sway him with the Dodger mystique. Jacque Jones and Preston Wilson are the nightmare alternatives- a sure sign Colletti doesn't get it.

Philly needs a long-term solution at catcher and CF. Seems like a Navarro/Bradley/prospect package could net us Abreu. That's the kind of deal DePo would do if it could be done. Let's email this rumor to Rosenthal and see if he runs with it.

2005-11-18 10:13:53
24.   Eric L
19 Or to put it another way, Oscar Robles' OPS+ last year was 88. Clayton's was 73.

I know OPS+ doesn't tell the whole story. I'm not sure that Robles can repeat what he did last year.

OTOH, I know that Clayton has only had 2 seasons in his career that surpassed the production (based on OPS+) of Robles last year and the last time he did it (98) was in 1999.

I'll take the young guy who may or may not be productive over the old guy who we know isn't productive and will be expensive.

2005-11-18 10:16:15
25.   gvette
17--Isn't Mike Lowell still owed a ton of money (like $18 mil) on his contract?

Even if Florida picks up a lot of it, that still a lot for someone whose numbers plunged last year, even if he's only 32.

2005-11-18 10:16:20
26.   Johnson
Well, given that Izturis is likely to miss half the season, I think the idea as it stands (going back to Nate's post at 7) is to start Robles and have someone on the active roster to backup the SS position. I just don't think that backup should be Guzman. If you want Guzman to start, I'm willing to discuss. But using him as a backup (as Jon seemed to suggest), I'm not sure that's a good idea.
2005-11-18 10:16:33
27.   bigcpa
From Rotoworld...

The Rockies are showing interest in catcher Paul Lo Duca, who is owed $12.5 million over the next two seasons. They've also asked about Guillermo Mota.

2005-11-18 10:19:14
28.   JMK
3 - Baseball is infused with conservatism. The rules rarely change and it's run by an old boys network. In addition, there's a sort of timelessness to the sport. It seems easier to compare Ruth and Bonds. Whereas, when you compare clips of Bob Cousy and Allen Iverson it's like they're playing different sports.

I've also been thinking that the recent hostility to the innovative stathead movement is the pespective of those who see sports as a sort of morality play. They want the winners of sports to have "character", to embody teamwork, integrity, scrappiness, loyalty . They want them to embody the qualities that we deem important in life. That's why guys like Plaschke turn everything into a morality tale. And why he can't stand a perpective that says OPS is one of the major factors in a winning ballclub. It seems to me that he would have difficulty in seeing the players of sports as simply having certain physical skills that have nothing to do with character. For he desperately wants the winners in sports to be good guys. But in sports and life, "winners" are not always people we admire or like.

2005-11-18 10:19:51
29.   Eric L
26 Not to speak for Jon, but I think the idea is that Guzman wouldn't necessarily be a back-up with the big club. He is more of a back up plan within the orginization as Reg points out in post 22.

If Robles and Perez are still on the roster and they both go down before Izturis is healthy, you call up Guzman as your shortstop. If not, he stays in Vegas and continues to play everyday.

2005-11-18 10:30:12
30.   scanderbeg
I don't want this to turn into a witch hunt, but the significant drop-off in Lowell's production last season makes me wonder about previous substance use. Let's see if he floats!
2005-11-18 10:30:26
31.   KLV
Has anyone heard anything lately about what position Guzman is going to play going forward? Late last season, there was a lot of talk about moving him to 3B or RF.
2005-11-18 10:32:53
32.   KLV
Lowell has two (expensive) years left on his contract. No thanks. If we feel the need to get a proven vet for the year at 3B, I'd say go after Randa or Nomar. Nomar is interesting b/c he gives you some flexibility and added depth at SS as well and would probably take a 1 year deal.
2005-11-18 10:33:26
33.   dzzrtRatt
28 Your post reminded me of the baseball scene in Woody Allen's "Radio Days." The movie is constructed as a series of parodies of old time radio shows that Allen used to listen to as a kid. One of them is "Great Sports Legends." The announcer talks about a pitcher from the past who had "...heart." (Dramatic pause for emphasis.) First he shoots off one of his arms, but the next season, he's still a champion, because he had "...heart." Then he shoots off all his other limbs, and finally goes blind, but is still out there pitching, because he has "...heart." They intercut with shots of this increasingly disabled pitcher.

That bit encapsulates the "morality play" aspect of baseball you're talking about. "Radio Days" is a funny film for those who haven't seen it.

2005-11-18 10:36:56
34.   dzzrtRatt
32 I mentioned Lowell because his name's been coming up lately. Nomar would be fine, but is he so prostrate that Colletti could talk him into a low-dollar, short-term contract? Won't we be outbid if we offer him what he's really worth to us?

A Lowell scenario would basically entail LA taking Lowell off Florida's hands (Florida being in the midst of one of its periodic salary dumps) for little back in terms of player value, and with Florida being forced to pick up a couple-three mil of his salary each year.

2005-11-18 10:39:49
35.   Jesse

I just watched "Radio Days" last week and was going to post something about that scene, but I forgot. Funny stuff.

2005-11-18 10:40:37
36.   Bob Timmermann

That's a good post.

In some respects, the "character" issue has also been making its way to the NFL. Supposedly, the great success of the New England Patriots recently is because the team has a bunch of good character guys. I guess they aren't very good players. Or the coaches didn't a good job. They are prevailing on sheer force of will.

Plaschke wrote recently that one of Pete Carroll's biggest challenges would be handling the case of Fred Maualuga, but I doubt that problem is nearly as hard as figuring out how to keep his team prepared for each week's game.

Nevertheless, football has always rewarded innovation. Coaches battle with each other to come up with new offenses and new defenses. Everybody wants to stay one step ahead.

Baseball's strategies are less fluid. It's not like there's a Clark Shaugnessey out there who's going to draw up the T-formation for baseball and make everybody change.

If you want to draw a parallel in football, I guess you could think of the 1921 World Series pitting the home run hitting Yankees (the T-formation team) taking on the little ball playing Giants (the single wing team).

2005-11-18 10:40:37
37.   Jon Weisman
21 - the question was, what happens if Robles and Izturis are hurt. So Guzman would be playing every day.

Essentially, the question is, who is the Dodgers' 2006 third-string shortstop. Or fourth-string, if you count Antonio Perez.

22, 29 - understands what I'm saying.

2005-11-18 10:52:36
38.   Jon Weisman
21 - the question was, what happens if Robles and Izturis are hurt. So Guzman would be playing every day.

Essentially, the question is, who is the Dodgers' 2006 third-string shortstop. Or fourth-string, if you count Antonio Perez.

22, 29 - understands what I'm saying.

2005-11-18 10:53:06
39.   Jon Weisman
I just set the world-record for time-elapsed double posting.
2005-11-18 11:03:25
40.   JMK
36 - I love baseball best but innovative strategies in football and basketball adds interest to their sports. The Pistons like to play defense and the Suns like to run. Completely different stlyes. I'm dying for some on-field innovation in baseball. I wanna see the Rockies try something like pinch hitting every time the pitcher's up since they can never get good starters anyways. Or see Cincinnati play Adam Dunn at shortstop when they have an extreme flyball pitcher like Milton on the mound. I wanna see Gagne come in the seventh in a close game with the bases loaded. I wanna see something that shows me that you're trying and willing to take risks. Especially, if you're a ballclub that's always struggling.
2005-11-18 11:10:21
41.   Kevin Maxwell
It would be helpful to have
a menu of our up and coming
minor leagers or guys that spent
some time in the bigs last year by
position and then perceived value.

Is there a list/link that I can go to?

2005-11-18 11:10:38
42.   scareduck
28 - for all that we lament Plaschke and Simers absorbing column-inches in the Times, might I ask a meta-question: their presence is a statement by the editor of said pages. Isn't that, then, an editorial choice by the Times? And aren't we therefore blaming the wrong people for the presence of their ravings?
2005-11-18 11:15:24
43.   Jon Weisman
41 - You mean this?

Was that free verse you wrote, or just weird paragraph breaks?

2005-11-18 11:18:13
44.   Bob Timmermann

You are indeed correct, Rob. Someone has to decide to employ Plaschke and Simers. It's not like the two of them come to Bill Dwyre's house every day and blackmail him in to keeping their jobs.

Plaschke is regarded highly by Dwyre. So he stays. Dwyre thinks Simers is very funny, so he stays too. They create interest in the paper so they stay, or so is the operative theory.

For the majority of the newspaper buying public, Plaschke is a wonderful heart-tugging writer. He's the Times celebrity journalist with the outsized personality. No one reads the L.A. Times sports for serious analysis of ideas. They read it for a succession of gleanings of recycled opinions.

2005-11-18 11:24:20
45.   razzle nugent
The Phillies trade idea intrigues me. They are also looking to trade Vincinte Padilla and bolster their rotation. Maybe something like:

Abreu, Lieberthal, and Padilla
Bradley, Navarro, and O. Perez

2005-11-18 11:29:35
46.   Eric L
44 When did the sports section of the Times really start going downhill? I remember in my early college years (like 10 years ago), I used to buy the Times on break just to read the sports section.

Maybe I didn't know any better...

2005-11-18 11:31:09
47.   Kevin Maxwell
43 - Jon, perfect - thanks for the links.

Weird? If you are asking about the condensed look, I don't exactly know why I do that. I do in email too.

2005-11-18 11:33:54
48.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
40 "I wanna see something that shows me that you're trying and willing to take risks. Especially, if you're a ballclub that's always struggling."

Considering that the sport's gatekeepers demonize such mild innovations as using a computer, who can blame people for not taking true risks? I would love to see a team try the 4-man rotation, just because it would be such a radical change from accepted practice. (And because it just might work.) But in today's environment, it seems more likely that a team would fly to games on a magic carpet than try something like that.

2005-11-18 11:35:14
49.   Jesse
they can keep lieberthal, i'd rather bring up martin or keep navarro.
2005-11-18 11:37:33
50.   SMY
I was visiting a friend of mine and he said Plaschke was a good columnist. I brushed it off. Then he said the Lo Duca trade was terrible. I started to defend it. Then he said he would have rather had Cora than Kent, and Kent's defense cost Izturis his Gold Glove. I had had a few beers by that point, and I lost it and started swearing. Then I gave up.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-18 11:39:31
51.   gvette
44--Bob, did you ever get any response from the Times regarding your cancellation letter?
2005-11-18 11:47:05
52.   Eric L
50 I'm not sure my dad was totally on board with the DePo ideas, but the Kent deal was one that he totally agreed with.

Cora is a decent second baseman or utility type player. Defensive issues aside (and IIRC, Kent really wasn't that big of a step down), it is pretty hard someone can rationally justify Cora being better than Kent.

2005-11-18 11:49:45
53.   SMY
52 I was just shocked to hear someone actually verbalize it. And really, at that point, you realize that there's no possibility of rational debate.
2005-11-18 11:50:19
54.   Bob Timmermann

Yes, I did, from Bill Dwyre himself. He said understood his opinions and backed up his staff and hoped that I at least found the news gathering people on his staff didn't bother me. If I didn't like Plaschke or Simers, I was told to not read them.

2005-11-18 11:53:33
55.   dzzrtRatt
48 Well that might be stretching it a little. Before "Moneyball," managers and players who used computer analysis were lauded as brilliant innovative thinkers. It was talked about in glowing terms. Managers and coaches who positioned their fielders based on a careful, computer-aided study of hitter tendencies; pitchers who had digital video of every pitch they ever threw, and every pitch thrown to every batter for the opposing team. In a less-digital age, I recall reading about how Orel did pretty much that same kind of analysis, with the aid of computers.

It's when Moneyball came out and seemed to rub DePodesta and Beane in the faces of scouts--a romanticized profession--that suddenly, a lot of baseball pros and pundits got stressed out about where this was going. Combine that with the dreaded word "Harvard," and you can see where this is going. Baseball people don't all go to college period, much less Harvard. This sounds threatening. Boo Hiss.

That Michael Lewis book's net effect on the progress of sabremetrics in baseball might be a wash or a net negative. When I read it, I thought, yeah, of course. But now it's a badge of honor to refute it.

My suspicion, though, is that it's all theater. Colletti's PR image will be of a backslapping throwback. But after midnight, I'm sure he'll be sneaking into Kim Ng's office to check out DePo's stash.

2005-11-18 11:57:58
56.   dzzrtRatt
it is pretty hard someone can rationally justify Cora being better than Kent.

Many tried. There are still a few stains on the floor from those days.

2005-11-18 12:00:27
57.   Bob Timmermann
I found this statement by Lasorda in the San Diego Union-Tribune on 2/22/04

"Tommy Lasorda likes new Dodgers GM Paul DePodesta because "he's Italian and grew up in Philadelphia." If these were prerequisites for the job, the hiring process would have lasted 25 years . .

2005-11-18 12:00:43
58.   razzle nugent
You're right. I'd rather have Navarro than Lieberthal, but I was looking at it from the Phillies perspective. 23 mentioned that they are looking for a long-term solution at catcher. Lieberthal would be a stop-gap for us until Russ Martin arrives.

Would they consider just Abreu + Padilla for Bradley + O. Perez?

2005-11-18 12:01:02
59.   scareduck
55 - At this point, there's no question but that Moneyball is a net negative for statistical analysis, and principally because it draws its characters as cariacatures. Lewis himself admitted he fell in love with a story, but at that exact moment he lost all claims to objectivity, and he -- and men like Paul DePodesta -- have suffered for it.
2005-11-18 12:02:17
60.   Bob Timmermann
What suffering has Michael Lewis gone through except having guys like Joe Morgan angry at him? Lewis likely made a dumptruck full of money on that book and will get another dumptruck full of money parked outside his door for his next book.
2005-11-18 12:07:42
61.   scareduck
60 - maybe better said that Lewis's credibility has suffered for it.
2005-11-18 12:08:47
62.   FirstMohican
56 - How many foul balls has Jeff Kent hit before following them with a home run??!?!
2005-11-18 12:08:54
63.   SiGeg
I like the idea of pursuing Abreu. Abreu, Drew and Kent (and Choi!) in the middle of the lineup looks mighty good to me. (Sign Nomar to play SS at least until Izzy is back, and perhaps 3rd later, and now we're really talking -- at least until J.D. and Nomar go to high-five each other in spring training, miss, fall down, and are out for the rest of the season.)

But as far as 58, etc: Yes, from what I understand, including a young catcher in the deal would make sense for Philadelphia. But if it happens, I think it will be Martin, not Navarro, that goes. I realize a lot of people think Navarro is going to be merely very good but Martin could be truly outstanding. Still, Martin is completely untested vs. major league pitchers and a tad older (I think). Wouldn't Colletti be more likely to keep around the young catcher that he has some reason to believe can contribute now and for many years to come, than to create a hole and hope Martin would work out. I don't see Lieberthal coming over with Abreu. Too much $$$. Meanwhile, Philly could play Lieberthal while making sure Martin is ready to take over -- and they'd get the higher-ceiling prospect in the deal.

2005-11-18 12:10:12
64.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
55 "But after midnight, I'm sure he'll be sneaking into Kim Ng's office to check out DePo's stash."

I wish I shared your confidence on that. And I give Colletti the benefit of the doubt. But it's just a little difficult to imagine him presenting a player's WARP and OPS to McCourt as justification to acquire someone. Hasn't McCourt, by his own actions, made that harder to do? When your predecessor gets run out of town, most tend to avoid repeating the perceived mistakes. Even if Ned believes in such stats, he's gotta wonder if he'll get laughed out of the office if he starts throwing them around.

2005-11-18 12:11:19
65.   gvette
57--Under that criteria, managerial candidates would include 50's teen idols Frankie Avalon and Fabian.
2005-11-18 12:12:26
66.   FirstMohican
If Giles isn't freaked out by the circus McCourt runs and actually signs with the Dodgers, that would be a stellar start to the offseason. If Colletti is really not that sprung on pitching prospects, then hopefully he nails Santana or Sheets in exchange. A trade for Abreu or Dunn would be the icing on top of all of this.

Yeah, I'm dreaming...

2005-11-18 12:14:29
67.   SiGeg
64 There's still no reason to think that McCourt has anything against the use of statistics. As long as they are alone and no journalists are listening in, I don't see why he'd have a problem with it.
2005-11-18 12:15:13
68.   Eric L
63 Martin is nearly a year older than Navarro, but Navarro is up right now because he was signed by the Yankees in 2000. Martin was drafted by the Dodgers in 2002.
2005-11-18 12:15:28
69.   Mark
Don't know if this has been posted yet... interesting story about a homeless softball player:

2005-11-18 12:15:49
70.   Jon Weisman
Arrested Development update:

2005-11-18 12:15:50
71.   LAT
As someone who follows the D'backs a little, I would rather not see Clayton in a Dodger uniform. Nice defense but, other than the bunt can't hit worth a lick.

Furcal won't happen. This morning it was announced that Chipper restructured his contract to free up money to re-sign Furcal.

At some of the D'Back blogs, they think they are making a hard run at LoDuca.

I would rather have Nomar at third but what about Glaus? Expensive, has two years left, not great defense, but has power. Would rather see him than Lowell or Beltre's return and Az. really wants to get rid of him. Just a thought.

2005-11-18 12:15:50
72.   Kevin Maxwell
57 - "he's Italian and grew up in Philadelphia."

I heard Tommy interviewed on 710AM after Depo got launched. During the whole in interview about the GM search, whenever he got the chance to say Depodesta's name, he mispronounced it, calling him DepodesTOE. It seemed intentional to me.

2005-11-18 12:17:52
73.   molokai
3b Options:
Mike Lowell - The reason Lowell has an expensive contract is because he was one hell of a third baseman before 2005. 3b who slug 500 in a ballpark like Florida and play great defense don't grow on trees. If you trade for him you won't be giving up much because it will be a salary dump by Florida. If he bounces back you have a top 5 NL 3b at a decent price for the production and only 2 years left on his deal. If he is at the end of his career at the age of 32 then your on the hook for a lot of money that might have gone elsewhere. Part of me says take the chance and part of me says don't do it because of the fact he fell off so huge in 2005 when testing was initiated. If his hitting stays at 2005 level then it would be a huge miss. If he falls between pre 2005 and 2005 then he would be expensive but given his defense I would live with it. If he bounces all the way back then we'd all be very happy. I'd pass but wouldn't be to upset if Colletti takes a chance.

Nomar - when he's healthy he hits. His defense is horrific at SS but he could plug in if Robles gets hurt while were waiting for Izzy to heal. Still has the ablity to post a > 500 slug%. He's my choice but I imagine he's also the choice of many GM's so what will it take to get him to come to LA.

Aybar - He will do if we upgrade other positions but it will be hard to compete if Izzy and Aybar are manning the left side. I like him but I'd trade him if someone is looking at his Sept numbers. He's only going to hit around 250/350/390 and that is not enough for our 3b.

LaRoche - don't think he's going to be a star. Defense will be average at best but the power is for real. Looks like Ron Santo, stocky, thick player hard to picture him playing SS in college. He might be ready but don't expect him to be a world beater in 2006. Should give us much better production then Aybar could and I would not have a problem with him being the starting 3b in 2006 but I'd temper my expectations.

Koskie - Toronto needs to make room for Aaron Hill. They can either trade the golden glove of Orlando Hudson or move Koskie. He has 11 million remaining on his deal. Pass

Randa - Solid glove, free agent, limited power, kind of player Colletti MIGHT like but I don't see him doing much more then LaRoche could do right now. Pass

Mueller - injury risk, free agent, winning attitude:). If we sign a free agent I'll take him for one year if Nomar is two expensive or just isn't interested in us. Ex-Giant-Sign him up.

2005-11-18 12:22:44
74.   molokai
Chipper - all about the winning:) Is that a character issue that you can quantify when someone backs up winning comments with action?

I'd take Glaus but I don't see Arizona trading him to us unless Byrnes rapes us in the process.

2005-11-18 12:23:30
75.   Penarol1916
61. Michael Lewis's credibility didn't suffer anymore after Moneyball than it did after Liar's Poker when people at Salomen Brothers said he made charicatures of them all and the chief character of the Liar's Poker anecdote denied it ever occurred.
2005-11-18 12:29:16
76.   razzle nugent
You make good points regarding the Phils search for a young catcher. How about this:
Abreu + Padilla + cash for Bradley + OP + Martin
2005-11-18 12:35:55
77.   scanderbeg
70 - If this is true, you have to love the brashness that the entire production of Arrested Development approaches their show's situation with. Those are the kind of lightly guised allusions that make the show so great.

Is anyone else going to see 'Walk the Line?'

2005-11-18 12:38:53
78.   Steve
Let's have a really long discussion about Three Nights In August...



And that is why Moneyball is a great book.

2005-11-18 12:40:13
79.   Curtis Lowe
77- I'm gonna see it but Im probably going to be dissapointed from the PG13 rating and the lack of Cash's darker side not being shown.
2005-11-18 12:41:37
80.   Curtis Lowe
79- His darker side not being shown.
2005-11-18 12:42:03
81.   Eric L
Unless the reason for trading OP is because he is a pain in the behind, what good does bringing in Padilla instead of him do?

Padilla pitched 115 innings in '04 and 147 innings in '05. He doesn't seem much more durable than OP.

His OPS+ the last couple of years was 96. His career high was 127 the same as OPs career high in '04.

Unless it is for money, I just don't see what moving OP for Padilla does to strengthen the team. The offense sucked last year, but the pitching was worse. The new GM should be looking to add arms, not swap them.

2005-11-18 12:43:26
82.   molokai
I'm going tomorrow, JC was one of my favorites. Alot of crap over the life of his work but the stuff that was good was oh so good. Rosanne Cash is also plenty talented.
2005-11-18 12:44:25
83.   Eric L
80 It looks like some of Cash's darker side is in the movie according to Roger Ebert's review.

2005-11-18 12:47:01
84.   Curtis Lowe
83- Thanks,

81- i think the swap is supposed to make them trading Abreu not seems as harsh.

2005-11-18 12:47:38
85.   molokai
Razzle why would Gillick in his first trade, trade his best player for a malcontent like MB? Jason Michaels probably can do what MB can do without the baggage. Sure they need a future catcher but you don't trade the best outfielder over 30 in the NL for a future catcher when your trying to win next year. JMO
2005-11-18 12:48:10
86.   Sam DC
I'm sure I'm late to the game on this, though I don't see it in the comments above, but now Tim Brown reports that Colletti is interviewing Terry Collins for manager? But, um, huh?
2005-11-18 12:51:10
87.   Sam DC
Meanwhile, the Nationals aren't sitting still. Big free agent splash singing today . . . Marlon Anderson. That brings them up to two Marlons.

2005-11-18 12:59:57
88.   razzle nugent
You're right, it is for the money. Many similarities between Padilla and Perez. Two reasons why I'd rather have Padilla:
1) Money
2) The Phil's home park only trailed Coors Field in hitter friendliness last year in the NL. (the relative value of Abreu should also take this into consideration)

Acconding to what I've read, the Phils seem intent on not having Padilla on their roster next year. Are there character issues with him?

2005-11-18 13:04:16
89.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
86 I take that as a smokescreen, considering Collins remains on the payroll. "See, Terry, we didn't fire DePo because he was about to hire you. We think you're swell. We fired DePo because he wasn't following the Dodger Way, and because Tommy doesn't like pencil-necked Harvard geeks."
2005-11-18 13:07:19
90.   razzle nugent
The Phils would shed money, which would allow them to go after other players. At the same time, the trade would address three issues for them: CF, young catcher, bolster rotation.

(again, I don't know why they are intent on getting rid of Padilla. He had a ribcage injury this year, but not something that would hinder him in the future I think)

Hey all, thanks for helping me explore a trade with the Phils. I feel we have a match with them this offseason.

2005-11-18 13:10:28
91.   Sam DC
More old old news. What is the real story with the missed dinner with Orel Hershiser? Did DePodesta really just skip an interview dinner with his boss and Dodger Legend Orel Hershisher? Or was he not invited because McCourt had already decided to make the GM change. It would just really surprise me if just skipped a dinner like that, regardless of whatever preconceptions of Hershiser he may have had, or his belief that he already had identified the right man for the job.
2005-11-18 13:13:44
92.   Eric L
88 ERA+ is park adjusted though. More or less, Padilla gets "credit" for pitching in a hitters park. Even based on park adjusted stats, Padilla has been a below average pitcher the last couple of years.

And he doesn't pitch alot of innings.

2005-11-18 13:14:11
93.   razzle nugent
The Phils do have Shane Victorino, so maybe they don't have a CF issue. Does anyone here think Victorino's breakout 2005 MVP season was a flash in the pan?
2005-11-18 13:14:54
94.   oldbear
78. I was suprised that an author that could pen such a good book in Friday Night Lights, could also do something equally as bad as Three Nights in August.

FNL is probably my favorite sports book.
Orel Hershiser's book is a good read too.

2005-11-18 13:15:28
95.   Sam DC
And last from my little comment explosion, I've got a new pet peeve: using the phrase "urban legend" just to mean "legend." I have just returned to my office from a meeting where a colleague described an arcane belief held by workers at an isolated industrial plant in the deep South as an "urban legend." No one laughed when I said I thought it was more of a rural legend.
2005-11-18 13:16:35
96.   SiGeg
I agree that Philly probably wouldn't want to take MB. And they are not rebuilding, so 85 is right that the point of the trade wouldn't be simply to get a future catcher. I think if they were going to trade Abreu to LA, though, they wouldn't be expecting to get back major league ready value that equals Abreu. I can only see it happening if they were clearing some salary (as 90 says) to make a separate deal (or another part of the deal), perhaps for a pitcher. In any case, I think if the Dodgers have any chance to get him, it's going to take something like Martin plus a couple of pitching prospects -- at least one of whom would have to be a top pitching prospect -- and perhaps someone like Werth. (I say Werth with the idea being that trading Abreu would leave Philadelphia with less OF depth and Werth could help fill that, and still has some decent upside as well. But I don't really know their needs here.)

Would I do that deal? Heck if I know. There are others here who are better informed than I, and better able to evaluate it. But I'd assume that it depends on the pitching prospects involved. Billingsley = no.

2005-11-18 13:18:25
97.   Uncle Miltie
87- I like Marlon, met him when he played for the Phillies- good guy, but why pay close to $1 million for a pinch hitter? Oh yea, Bowden is running the team.
2005-11-18 13:18:55
98.   oldbear
91. If Colletti isnt going to hire Hershiser, then why would DePo have gotten fired for coming to the same conclusion?

I think the DePo firing will just go down as one of those things you cant explain.

2005-11-18 13:20:19
99.   Uncle Miltie
I like his honesty too:
Anderson said he signed with the Nationals because the team showed interest in him the moment he filed for free agency.

"They let it be known that they had interest in me. Things with New York didn't pan out the way I thought," Anderson said. "The Nationals gave me an offer. With the things that I do [off the bench], I thought it was a fair deal. It was more than anybody else was offering."

I hate when players who take the most money, say they signed with that team because they want to win.

2005-11-18 13:22:31
100.   razzle nugent
Odalis Perez's 2005 ERA+: 89
Vicente Padilla's 2005 ERA+: 96

Odalis Perez's career ERA+: 100
Vicente Padilla's career ERA+: 106

I'm not saying he's a little or a lot better than OP. He may be a bit worse. I'm just saying that he's cheaper and could be expected to contribute nearly as much as OP.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-18 13:22:51
101.   Jon Weisman
95 - You need a better audience.
2005-11-18 13:24:40
102.   Vishal
[54] but it's difficult to read the times and ignore plaschke, ESPECIALLY when he's writing very influential articles about a subject on which you care passionately, and when those articles are such monumantal steaming piles of crap, and worse yet, elaborately misinformed and misleading crap. unfortunately, plaschke is somewhat of a celebrity writer and i'm sure he is very profitable to keep around, so that's why they're not going to get rid of him. there is no principle involved other than that of the bottom line.
2005-11-18 13:26:09
103.   dzzrtRatt
95 One of my favorite books as a kid was "Myths and Urban Legends of the Greeks."
2005-11-18 13:26:37
104.   Vishal
er, the piles of crap emanating from plaschke's typewriter are "monumental".
2005-11-18 13:27:03
105.   scanderbeg
I'm not sure how Abreu is viewed in Philly, but I am certain that the Dodgers would have to give up far more than OP + Bradley+ Martin or Navarro for Abreu AND Padilla. Who would they replace Abreu with offensively? He is their most marketable player, as well. I think that Adam Dunn is a far more attainable player than Abreu, and he is younger :).
2005-11-18 13:27:24
106.   Eric L
100 I think I should clarify myself.. Bringing in Padilla and losing Perez doesn't do anything to address the glaring hole(s) in the rotation.

I like the idea of getting Abreu. How much is the offense upgraded if you trade Milt though? I understand that Abreu is a far better offensive player, but the trade in general doesn't seem to help the team that much.

2005-11-18 13:29:03
107.   SMY
91 I'm positive McCourt had already made up his mind and didn't invite DePo to the dinner intentionally. Despite all the reported "communication problems," just not showing up to a dinner like that seems really weird and unprofessional. I don't believe that DePo is THAT introverted, or else he never would have gotten as far as he did in the first place. Especially considering he apparently had a 3 or 4 hour phone conversation with Orel as well. That story is just too bizarre to have actually happened, in my opinion.
2005-11-18 13:29:20
108.   regfairfield
100 It's not like OP has been a constant 100 though. In 2002 and 2004 a was a really good number two/solid number one (ERA+ of 126 and 127 respectively). In 2003 and 2005, he stunk.

Giving him the benifit of being injured this year, wouldn't you rather have him than Padilla, a guy whose best full season ERA+ is 116, and his been sub 100 the last two years.

2005-11-18 13:29:34
109.   Vishal
well, the difference between legend and urban legend is that nobody knows whether a legend is true, but an urban legend is something that seems to connote that 1)it is relatively recent and most importantly, 2)it is demonstrably false.


2005-11-18 13:30:21
110.   SMY
Plaschke is frequently included in those Greatest American Sports Writing compilations. I always thought that was weird, but given the state of sportswriting I guess it's not really all that surprising.
2005-11-18 13:30:47
111.   Sam DC
101 Don't you realize, you folks are my better audience.
2005-11-18 13:34:53
112.   razzle nugent
The point of the trade isn't to bolster our rotation. The point of the trade is to bolster our lineup, while at the same time preserving the quality of our rotation.

Lots of holes in my proposed trades, but I still feel we are a good match with the Phils for a trade this offseason.

2005-11-18 13:38:46
113.   razzle nugent
Its a tough business, but at this point I'd rather have Padilla and the extra millions from shedding OP's contract. Anybody know if there are character issues with Padilla?
2005-11-18 13:41:01
114.   regfairfield
113 The perception around baseball seems to be that Odalis Perez stinks. Given his large contract, wouldn't that give him almost a net negative value in trade?

Given the lack of options out there, I'd rather see if he can pull his value up, and then think about trading him.

2005-11-18 13:45:00
115.   razzle nugent
Good point, but with the dearth of free agent starting pitching this year its hard to say exactly how other teams may value him.
2005-11-18 13:47:12
116.   LAT
91I think the DePo firing will just go down as one of those things you cant explain.

Bear, I think it can be explained, just not by Frank.

The explanation is Frank was too weak or impatient to withstand the perfect storm of some bad decisions, bad luck and bad bad injuries. He had been drinking his own Kool-Aid about 2004 and couldn't stand the heat when things went south in 2005. Depo wasn't offered up because of Collins or dinner with Orel or any other single reason other than Frank had to do something to get the media of his case. In the end it all comes down to what Ratt eloquently described in 10 above, Frank's self consuming insecurity. Frank took a risk with Depo and when it didn't payoff he decide to go the conventional route so he could look just like everyone else at the next owners meeting. What he doesn't understand is if they were laughing at him before, they are falling on the floor after the last three weeks.

2005-11-18 13:49:12
117.   Jon Weisman
111 - Of course!
2005-11-18 13:52:24
118.   Bob Timmermann
For those of you who say there's nothing to listen to on the radio at night, I will be a make brief report on Fred Roggin's High School Sports show on 1150 AM around 10:50 pm.

I'll be checking in on the Thousand Oaks-Rio Mesa football game. I'm sure it will be the highlight of anyone's Friday night.

2005-11-18 13:56:09
119.   molokai
For you Dodger Minor League hounds, some good news via BA recent AFL chat.
1. LaRoche ranked 11th best AFL prospect. Said that if he plays winter ball that he probably will not be competing for starting job in 2006 but if the Dodgers decide to rest him that means they are looking for him to try to win the job in 2006.
2. Kemp ranked 17th best AFL prospect, which given his age is very good. Middle of the run producer.
3. Loney - Kliene said he liked Loney over most of the BA staff and expects him to hit with a high average and 20 home run power.
4. Martin - Not in the AFL but when asked if Sal...... from Atlanta was the best catcher, he said he'd rank Martin as the BEST catcher in the minor leagues. High praise indeed.
2005-11-18 13:57:42
120.   werthgagne31
""""'Rotation-wise, I think that's where the new GM is going to have an impact, for better or worse. Lowe, Penny, Perez, and Houlton/Jackson isn't going to be enough to get the job done, and Colletti might be thinking that he can use one of his better prospects in a package to get a more legitimate No. 1 starter. I'm not saying I want to see it happen, but there's enough on the farm to make a deal."""""""

The guy who said this is right on target. Pitching wins championships.
If we can keep both houlton and jackson in the minors, and acquire 2 starting pitchers, the offense won't need to be as strong, and we will have depth in the pitching staff in case of an injury.

I read that the dodgers are seriously pursuing brian giles, excellent news.

2005-11-18 13:59:14
121.   regfairfield
120 Anytime anyone says pitching in defense wins championships, I just think back to 2003.
2005-11-18 14:00:54
122.   King of the Hobos
Juarez had a nice start for the Nicaraguan qualifying team, 6 shutout innings, 4 hits, a walk, and 4 strike outs. Martin only plays for Canada every other day, so he's not playing today
2005-11-18 14:03:39
123.   werthgagne31
I know what you mean, you still need enough offense.
And defense, i'm not a big fan of, i'd rather have offense before defense, but if you can get both offense and defense in your players its all the better.

But bottom line pitching wins championships, its just we had no offense in 2003 and we sacrificed offense for defense, a big mistake. If we would have had more offense and less defense with the same pitching in 2003 the team would have been much better.

2005-11-18 14:04:20
124.   King of the Hobos
121 Think back to the White Sox. Good pitching (and a manager who can handle the staff), good defense, and decent hitting can win. The 2003 team didn't have decent, or average, or slightly below average offense, it plain stunk. And Tracy isn't the best at handling the pitching staff (as Weaver demonstrates)
2005-11-18 14:06:23
125.   King of the Hobos
Oh, and some health doesn't hurt
2005-11-18 14:09:23
126.   regfairfield
124 Very true, but if Tracy's handling of the staff actually hurt, imagine how good they could have been.

The 2003 Dodgers held the biggest differential between first and second place in ERA ever. Tracy's managing would have mattered, he could have drawn names out of a hat, and that player would have got the job done.

Shuey? Sure, that'll do. Mota? Why not. Heck, Tom Martin stranded something like 80% of the runners he inherited.

The more I think about it, the worse that year was.

2005-11-18 14:09:56
127.   regfairfield
That should be shouldn't, not should.
2005-11-18 14:13:01
128.   molokai
Don't you think someone will nab him in the rule V draft after the great job he did in the AA playoffs? Doesn't look like he's going to make our 40 man roster.
2005-11-18 14:20:31
129.   Sushirabbit
sign me up as on the 'neeeeed a FLAME-thower band wagon'. Santana! If Coletti pulled that off, without a ridiculous loss of talent, he would definitely go up several notches in my eyes. I want someone like that, Oswalt, or even Sheets. I'd like two, but think one is more like it.

My major concern was voiced elsewhere with regards to Giles. If you are a free agent, why in, er, heck, would you want come here, it looks like it's a rudderless, un-piloted ship drifting towards rocky shoals, and that's exactly what it is.

Does anyone else expect Ng to go elswhere pronto? If I were another organization, it would seem she would be primed for change.

2005-11-18 14:20:50
130.   molokai
Will the Clippers come up big tonight or will the Lakers defend their home court. Hate to miss this game but were headed to Disneyland because that is where friends from out of town with kids go when they visit.
2005-11-18 14:23:22
131.   MikeB
Any truth to the rumor that naming rights to Dodger Stadium will be sold to the DuPont corporation?
"Better Living . . . through Chemistry"
2005-11-18 14:46:10
132.   Sushirabbit
131 Good one. Scary good, though.
2005-11-18 15:02:26
133.   saber tooth colletti
131-It's only a metter of time before McCourt sells the naming rights. With extra money, maybe he can upgrade the bleachers!!!
2005-11-18 15:06:13
134.   Sam DC
Behind the firewall, but Buster Olney headline now reads: "Giles a Replacement for Sheffield?"
2005-11-18 15:27:53
135.   Bob Timmermann
I've gone behind the firewall. Olney's theory is that Sheffield, who will be in his walk year, will start complaining about how he wants a new deal (sound familiar to anyone?) and that the Yankees may just deal him to avoid the hassle.

The Shef is really good, but he does come with a lot of strings attached. He is a high-maintenance player.

2005-11-18 15:31:58
136.   King of the Hobos
Now that rosters are being set for the Rule 5, I've started looking for any gems that might be available (gem meaning a good contributer, someone like Houlton, so not a future allstar). There are a couple relievers that I like, but we don't really need them.

The guy I really like is Brandon Sing. The Cubs have decided not to carry him, probably because his age and batting average. He'll be 25 next season, and carries a career batting average of .252. However, his career line is .252/.357/.468. Over his last 2 years, he's hit .273/.403/.554 in 817 ABs. He can play 1B and the 2 corner OF positions ( lists him as a 3B, although I believe his fielding there is Saenz-esque). He doesn't have any experience at AAA, which is obviously a concern, but I see enough upside to risk drafting him. And if he fails, at most we lose $25K

2005-11-18 15:32:53
137.   saber tooth colletti
135-I remember when Shef called out Dodger management re: karros'contract back in '02-'03...

if memory serves, he said, "it's not my fault you gave Karros a no-trade clause when he has no value"

2005-11-18 16:30:04
138.   dzzrtRatt
Sheffield for Player-Manager!
2005-11-18 16:43:16
139.   Eric L
137 By '02 or so, wasn't Karros already a 10-5 player with a de facto no trade clause?

Certainly, giving him the 4 year contract for the money that he was paid before he was able to veto trades (and it was even dumber for the Sherriff to put a no-trade clause if there was one in the contract) was a goofball idea.

2005-11-18 16:52:24
140.   saber tooth colletti
139-i don't remember the specific re: Karros' contract but I do remember Shef chiding the front office...

i also recall Mondy dropping the infamous, "f davey f daly" profanity-laced tirade

what a colorful time in Dodger history

2005-11-18 17:01:32
141.   Uncle Miltie
133- he could also use the extra money to be a few more houses. One for each member of the family.
2005-11-18 17:08:37
142.   D4P
Meh, just skip the houses and go right for the hotels.
2005-11-18 17:09:29
143.   dzzrtRatt
140 God, what did Dodgers fans all do wrong in our collective previous lives to deserve Daryl Strawberry, Brett Butler, Raul Mondesi, Eric Karros, Gary Sheffield and Kevin Brown? What an unpleasant bunch!

I join everyone in mocking the "chemistry" obsession, but even the most geekiest stat-geek could agree that having these guys around made your skin crawl sometimes.

2005-11-18 17:47:58
144.   Uncle Miltie
Is there any way I can listen to tonight's Clippers/Lakers game over the internet?
2005-11-18 17:56:21
145.   Vishal
[131] dude, i totally made a dupont joke a few days ago, minus the tag line.
2005-11-18 17:59:36
146.   King of the Hobos
Hershiser will not be the next Dodgers manager. The Fort Worth Star-Telegram is reporting he will become executive director reporting to club president Jeff Cogen. Bullpen coach Mark Connor will become the Rangers new pitching coach and Dom Chiti, the Rangers director of player personnel, will become the new bullpen coach.

I'm guessing Hershiser had little to do with DePo's firing

2005-11-18 18:03:05
147.   RELX
So the McCounts and Tommy lied to Hershisher too? Or did Hershisher not want to be part of the Dodger circus?
2005-11-18 18:17:22
148.   dzzrtRatt
When Tommy finally is called to heaven by the Big Dodger in the sky, Pat Gillick will be GM, Hershiser will be AGM, Bobby Valentine will be manager, Eric Karros will be at first base, and all will finally be set right.
2005-11-18 18:21:50
149.   King of the Hobos
Vazquez's 6 team blocked list reportedly includes one team west of Arizona, Seattle. I had figured the 6 teams west of Arizona would be the 6 blocked. The Rangers and Phillies are the other known teams. Maybe Colletti will be interested
2005-11-18 18:29:19
150.   dzzrtRatt
Is Kevin Brown's private plane still lying around somewhere?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-18 19:35:36
151.   Uncle Miltie
Nate- do you have that Lakers radio link?
2005-11-18 19:53:08
152.   D4P
I had it bookmarked, but then deleted it when I realized that I didn't really want to listen to the Lakers.
2005-11-18 20:00:31
153.   Uncle Miltie
152- I want it to hear the Clippers :)
2005-11-18 20:01:29
154.   Uncle Miltie
Kobe's passing more, he's only taken 8 shots so far.
2005-11-18 20:01:37
155.   D4P
Congratulations. You're the first person in sports history to utter that particular arrangement of words.
2005-11-18 20:03:16
156.   Uncle Miltie
155- are you a Clippers fan, or just a non-Lakers fan
2005-11-18 20:04:02
157.   D4P
I'm a Lakers fan. But I can't stand to watch Kobe anymore.
2005-11-18 20:07:35
158.   Uncle Miltie
157- jump on the bandwagon, there's plenty of room. The Clippers have a bunch of very unselfish players.

1st Quarter
The Clippers shooters are hot
Kwame Brown is doing a great job on the boards
Mihm is having a nice game

Over/Under on shot attempts by Kobe: 30

2005-11-18 20:09:17
159.   D4P
I never change allegiances; I just stop watching all together. But the Clippers appear to have a good team this year with Casell, Mobley, and Brand. They should definitely finish higher than the Lakers.
2005-11-18 20:09:27
160.   jasonungar05
I wish people would stop blaming kobe so much and shift attention toward Kupchek. He is killing us. Kobe has no team around him. I actually think maybe he should shoot more.

It's not that the lakers need a bunch of all stars, they just need guys who can spot up and shoot

2005-11-18 20:10:23
161.   Uncle Miltie
I was joking. That would be like me becoming an Angels fan.
2005-11-18 20:12:38
162.   Uncle Miltie
160- I wouldn't blame Kupchak. He is doing what Jerry Buss is telling him to do. Buss has turned into Frank McCourt. He kept Kobe because he's a "name player". McCourt loves Kent because he's a "name player".
2005-11-18 20:14:34
163.   D4P
I agree. Buss made the wrong decision in keeping Kobe. However, Kupchak should have gotten more for Shaq. Odum, Grant, and Butler were not equal value.
2005-11-18 20:17:16
164.   Uncle Miltie
163- build the team around Smush!
2005-11-18 20:20:23
165.   Uncle Miltie
Elton Brand is the Bobby Abreu of basketball players
2005-11-18 20:21:34
166.   D4P
I think they already did...
2005-11-18 20:31:01
167.   MikeB
145. Vishal - Great minds think alike.
2005-11-18 20:48:04
168.   MikeB
Jon: "I think the division still looks too weak, and that there is too much evidence of teams rising from the dead (like the phantom contender in Arizona this past year) for the Dodgers to give up on 2006. Certainly, the Dodgers didn't flip GMs to sit back on 2006. "

Dead-on, Jon. That's reasons #1,2 & 3 (with a bullet each) to expect trades, and FA signings that fill in the cracks, and get the Blue Crew into the playoffs - after that, anything can happen - right Ozzie?

"I think Colletti will pick and choose - go with kids in one place, sign a free agent for another position, trade a prospect to get a name vet in a third position."

That's a sound basis to expect Giles, Garciaparra, Randa, Mueller, Millwood, Clayton and other FA's to be courted and maybe signed for one, two or three years.

As for trades, I believe Colletti will use one or more of the "kids" to land a really big fish -- Dunn? Helton? Abreu?

Thanks Jon for your insight, and a forum for thoughtful discussion.


2005-11-18 20:49:10
169.   D4P
Kobe: 5-15 at the half
Everyone else: 12-25
2005-11-18 20:49:24
170.   Uncle Miltie
Clippers 53 Lakers 45

The Good (for each team)
Brand 13 Points (5-11 FG) 5 rebounds
Cassell 14 Points (4-6 FG) 4 rebounds 4 assists
Maggette 12 points (5-10 FG)

Kobe 4 assists
Mihm 10 points 7 rebounds 2 blocks
Kwame 6 rebounds
Smush 10 points (4-8 FG) 3 assists

Good free throw shooting from both teams

The Bad
Wilcox (1-3) FG no rebounds 1 turnover in 8 minutes
Clippers 1-6 3 point shooting

Mihm 3 turnovers
Kobe (5-15 FG) only 1 rebound
Odom only 3 rebounds

2005-11-18 21:10:59
171.   Uncle Miltie
Maggette is playing like Kobe right now
2005-11-18 21:17:34
172.   Xeifrank
Pretty wild day with the big fire and all. Glad I can finally sit down and enjoy the Laker/Clipper game. Thanks for the nice chat post Jon. vr, Xei
2005-11-18 21:42:04
173.   King of the Hobos
'About Morris, Axelrod declined to discuss specific teams or terms. Morris, who made $6.25 million after incentives this past season, has received a three-year offer from a National League team that's not the Cardinals. In addition to that team and the Cardinals, he has drawn the gaze of Seattle, Baltimore, San Francisco, Detroit and Texas.' -St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Rotoworld speculates the mystery team could be in the NL West. The Giants were known to want Morris, and it wouldn't surprise me if Colletti wanted him as well.

At this point, the Dodgers appear to be guarunteed 4 picks in the first 2 rounds if they play it smart, so I wouldn't be surprised if Colletti is trying to sign players early to get them slightly cheaper (and following his Giants strategy). We get the 7th pick guarunteed, then 2 for Weaver, and 1 for Dessens. Dessens will likely give us a 2nd rounder from KC/Colorado, and Weaver will give us a sandwich and a 1st/2nd rounder

2005-11-18 21:43:32
174.   Uncle Miltie
That team is probably the Giants
2005-11-18 21:49:54
175.   King of the Hobos
174 'In addition to that team and the Cardinals, he has drawn the gaze of Seattle, Baltimore, San Francisco, Detroit and Texas'

I have reason to believe it was nto the Giants

2005-11-18 22:21:47
176.   Uncle Miltie
Clippers win.

It looked like the Lakers were going to make a comeback because of the play from Odom late in the game, but Kobe tried to be the hero.

Kaman and Brand were great.

Maggette was awful.

2005-11-18 22:31:37
177.   das411
Jon!! They were talking about an Abreu trade when I wasn't here, can't you throw a penalty flag or something?!?

...does anybody else (Hobos?) see Tampa Bay making a play for Sheffield? That move buys Sternberg a LOT of "wants to win" credibility, brings him home so he can chase his uncle Doc around, and the NYY can possibly pick up a CF (have to mention Gathright) or some arms (Baez?)

2005-11-19 00:02:20
178.   oldbear
The Lakers problem starts and ends with Mitch Kupchak. The int'l scouting and drafting by the Lakers has been horrrrrrrrrible. Add in that Kupchak didnt get enough for Shaq, and then even made that trade worse by trading Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. And thinking PJ is a miracle worker...STUPID.

Lakers should have kept Caron Butler, and played Kobe at the 1, Butler at the 2, George at the 3, Odom at the 4, Mihm at the 5.

Smush is much better suited coming off the bench.

The above Laker team could have played an up and down game similar to the Phoenix Suns.

Kwame Brown is useless. I'm much rather have kept Caron, Kobe, Odom with Kobe playing the PG.

2005-11-19 01:09:46
179.   Uncle Miltie
Butler is a terrible defender. He also just got a contract extension for around $45 million. The Lakers need to learn how to draft and not build around a selfish player like Kobe.
Trade Kobe to Chicago for Tyson Chandler, Kirk Hinrich, and filler.
Play for the draft; Daniel Gibson is a stud point guard, who should come out next year.
Trade Chris Mihm and filler for James Posey
Possible Lakers team:
PG: Daniel Gibson
SG: Kirk Hinrich
SF: James Posey
PF: Lamar Odom
C: Tyson Chandler

No huge egos, much better defense, solid all around team. With some veterans on the bench, this would be a playoff team. Of course, the Lakers would never do this because Kobe makes Jerry Buss a lot of money.

2005-11-19 01:28:14
180.   bokonon42
My dad clipped an article out of the Times for me (he knows I don't read it) today. I didn't get it at first, it was from the automotive section, about some new Cadillac sports car. Then I realized, the box that had Dan Neil's name printed in it, had the words "is on assignment" under it. Somebody else is now reviewing the GM cars for the L.A. Times.

Why didn't McCourt think to extort glowing coverage from the Times? Maybe their ad buy isn't as big as GM's, but it probably would have been worth so Timesian grovelling.

2005-11-19 01:40:08
181.   bokonon42
some Timesian grovelling, even.
2005-11-19 07:19:25
182.   Sam DC
If you have the paper NY Times or access to Times Select, there's a nice column up by Bill Rhoden about how we view athletes. Exhibits A, B, and C are TO, A-Rod, and Muhammed Ali. Well worth reading.
2005-11-19 08:39:50
183.   Steve
So I notice that Ned Colletti, unlike the Evil One, has surrounded himself with good people.

Dodger General Manager Ned Colletti is scheduled to interview managerial candidate Jim Fregosi in the Tampa area today, with front-office executives Kim Ng, Roy Smith and Logan White sitting in on the meeting.

The LA Times. The Clement Haynesworth of the journalism world.

2005-11-19 08:42:21
184.   Bob Timmermann
Is this letter writer to the Times Sports Section one who walks among us:

Finally, the Dodgers made some decisions that pleased the Most Important Man in Los Angeles, Bill Plaschke. They fired Paul DePodesta and hired a guy who watches a lot of batting practice.

Sure, most of the guys DePodesta got rid of had lousy years, and a team depleted by injuries missed the playoffs by exactly one Eric Gagne. But DePodesta should have known, like the All-Knowing One, that potential stars Milton Bradley and Jayson Werth would crash and burn. He should have kept aging underachievers Finley and Green and flash-in-the-pan Beltre, not because the Dodgers would have been better, but because the Most Important Man in L.A. would have given his blessing.

And DePodesta would still have a job.


Redondo Beach

2005-11-19 08:51:23
185.   willhite
Maybe I missed it above (just logged on) but for those who haven't yet heard, Orel will not be the new Dodger manager. Just signed a front office contract with the Rangers. Daily News makes it sound like he's mostly going to do glad-handing and publicity. Could somebody please tell me why the Dodgers couldn't have signed him to do the same thing? Assuming Colletti has told him he doesn't want him for manager, he certainly would have been a great addition to the pr dept.
2005-11-19 08:55:57
186.   King of the Hobos
Rumor out of Florida says the Marlins and Rangers are close to swapping Beckett/Lowell for Blalock/pitching prospect (probably Diamond or Danks)

I wouldn't mind bringing in Beckett, even with his poor durability. Lowell makes the decision harder. If this has credibility (the Palm Beach Post and Fort Worth Star-Telegram are both reporting it), it shows the Marlins are in full firesale mode as predicted.

2005-11-19 08:56:06
187.   Steve
We got Dodger tradition coming out of our ears now, what with Ned Colletti and Jim Fregosi and all the good people surrounding them and all.
2005-11-19 09:08:44
188.   D4P
I liked that letter. I also liked this one:

If It's a Longshot, Kobe Will Take It

Against the 76ers last week, Phil Jackson designed the last play in which Kobe Bryant was supposed to penetrate toward the basket and take a close shot or pass to Smush Parker if his defender doubled up on Kobe. Instead, Kobe freelanced by taking an admittedly off-balance, long-range jumper after already having missed 19 shots.

Why, it almost makes me think the kid is uncoachable.


Valley Glen

2005-11-19 09:29:52
189.   Bob Timmermann
I get the impression that Hershiser was just using the Dodgers to leverage himself for a higher paying job in Texas and one that has less involvement with Showalter.

If that's the case, well played, Mr. Hershiser, well played!

2005-11-19 09:32:10
190.   Steve
I'm just going to go have myself a good cry now.

The Giants added minor leaguers INF Travis Ishikawa, OF Nate Schierholtz, C Eliezer Alfonzo and Ps Jesus Reina, Kelyn Acosta and Jon Coutlangus to the 40 man roster.

2005-11-19 10:00:53
191.   Kayaker7
Don't know if it's been discussed already, but Coletti will interview Terry Collins for the managerial job. How ironic would it be if he were hired, after DePodesta was fired for considering him?
2005-11-19 10:09:01
192.   D4P
I'd be shocked if Collins were hired. I'm surprised he's even getting an interview. Maybe it's just a PR ploy to appease Depo-supporters.
2005-11-19 10:13:54
193.   Vishal
well, i for one am not feeling particularly appeased.
2005-11-19 10:17:12
194.   D4P
Well, at least the BITGODs will be happy with the return to the "Dodger way" that has been brought about with the hiring all of these true-blue Dodger icons...
2005-11-19 10:27:19
195.   dzzrtRatt
Latest Hacksaw rumor: Milton Bradley to San Francisco for Edgardo Alfonzo.

FWIW, Colletti will be on Hacksaw's show at 11:30, he said.

2005-11-19 10:28:37
196.   King of the Hobos
195 I don't like that rumor, unless we get Cain also and the Giants pick up all of Alfonso's contract. Thankfully it's Hacksaw
2005-11-19 10:33:15
197.   dzzrtRatt
I never got the impression DePodesta fans were Terry Collins-lovers. Other than Collins' repeated "we're on the same page" comments, it was not clear that Collins was a DePo kind of manager. If anything, he seemed to be the opposite.

With a bit of perspective, it has to be admitted that DePodesta's managerial search results were kind of anticlimactic. They all had one great virtue in common--not being Jim Tracy. I thought Trammell could be okay, but that was mostly a gut feeling. Royster was a logical interview, but not stirring. The rest of them were...odd.

Fregosi seems like a ridiculous choice. But not much more ridiculous than DePo's candidates, it has to be admitted.

2005-11-19 10:38:19
198.   D4P
I'd rather have Valentin at $3 million than Alfonso at $7 million.
2005-11-19 10:43:35
199.   Bob Timmermann
But Alfonzo is a proven winner. And he does the little things!

And Felipe Alou wouldn't let him near the starting lineup down the stretch because he wanted to use the "red hot" bat of Pedro Feliz.

2005-11-19 10:44:45
200.   Rich Lederer
News Item: Orel Hershiser resigned as Rangers pitching coach and was named executive director.

Comment: I guess he was just a one-night stand for Frank McCourt and Tommy Lasorda, who were apparently doing nothing other than cheating on Paul DePodesta.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-19 10:44:58
201.   King of the Hobos
I wouldn't mind it if Alfonzo could hit like it was 1999 (.887 OPS, 2000 was .967). Unfortunately, we're far more likely to get the (un-roided?) 2005 version (.672) or the healthy 2004 (.757)
2005-11-19 10:48:59
202.   Bob Timmermann
Alfonzo would be a case of the Eisenreich Trap. Pick up a player who hits well against your team, so he must be good!

Players on the 2005 Dodgers who hit more home runs than Alfonzo did last year include Jason Grabowski and Mike Edwards and Oscar Robles.

2005-11-19 10:49:01
203.   Bob Timmermann
Alfonzo would be a case of the Eisenreich Trap. Pick up a player who hits well against your team, so he must be good!

Players on the 2005 Dodgers who hit more home runs than Alfonzo did last year include Jason Grabowski and Mike Edwards and Oscar Robles.

2005-11-19 10:49:16
204.   D4P
And don't forget this gem:

Izturis 2 in 444 ABs
Robles 5 in 364 ABs
Valentin 2 in 147 ABs
Edwards 3 in 239 ABs

Alfonzo 2 in 368 ABs

2005-11-19 10:55:58
205.   Bob Timmermann
I double-posted in honor of both of Alfonzo's home runs.
2005-11-19 10:58:14
206.   Vishal
i caught a bit of charley steiner doing the commentating on the harvard-yale football game today. turns out he's just as inane doing other sports as he is doing dodger baseball.
2005-11-19 10:59:10
207.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps Steiner sneaked into one of the illegal pregame keg parties at Yale.
2005-11-19 11:03:33
208.   D4P
Alfonzo's first HR came on opening day, April 5th, against the Dodgers. His second HR came on April 8th against the Rockies. After that game, he had hit 2 HRs in 15 ABs. A torrid pace indeed. He went on to hit zero HRs in his remaining 353 ABs for the season.

Flanders: Are you listening?

2005-11-19 11:04:43
209.   D4P
He also tried to sneak into a "Skull and Bones" meeting, but only because he thought it was "Dull and Drones."
2005-11-19 11:05:00
210.   SiGeg
197 True, but Collins at least had the advantage of being in the organization already, knowing a great deal about the minor league players, and having a history of working, presumably well, with DePodesta. So, DePodesta fans had some reason to take the "we're on the same page" comments as meaningful. I'm not sure why you think his candidates were odd, and I can't think of a particular person who matches what a "DePo kind of manager" would be -- or even really understand what that manager would be like. Can you name a candidate that wouldn't have been odd?

Or maybe the point is, once again, that DePodesta might be different from Colletti, but they still live on the same baseball planet. It's not a 180 degree swing from one to the other. That I agree with.

2005-11-19 11:08:36
211.   dzzrtRatt
It does sound like a pretty one-sided deal, in that Bradley will be much cheaper for the Giants than Alfonzo will be for us, and will produce much more offense, at least until he has his annual meltdown.

Plus, looking at this psychologically, the very last team on earth I would trade Bradley to would be the Giants. How much motivation do you want to give a rival? Bradley will hound the Dodgers til the end of days if he's sent to the Giants. Every ball pitched to him would have Frank McCourt's face on it. Every time he came to LA, he'd imagine the stands full of Jeff Kents in white robes.

If we must send Bradley away, send him to Toronto.

2005-11-19 11:10:55
212.   dzzrtRatt
Can you name a candidate that wouldn't have been odd?

That's a good point.

Baseball fans approach the idea of any new manager with much fear and trembling.

2005-11-19 11:14:06
213.   D4P
If Bradley IS traded to the Giants, it will only confirm my suspicion that Colletti is a mole planted by Sabean. What is unclear at this point is whether the McCourts are involved in the subterfuge. Based on their behavior thus far, I'm guessing they are.
2005-11-19 11:16:57
214.   natepurcell
if matt cain came in return, i would personally escort bradley to the airport. other than that, no dice!
2005-11-19 11:22:28
215.   Bob Timmermann

I agree. If Bradley is playing for the Giants, Barry Bonds would be wondering why everyone else in the stands at Dodger Stadium is so nice to him.

You would need National Guard troops to handle security in the pavilions.

2005-11-19 11:25:26
216.   King of the Hobos
Now Hacksaw is saying the Giants will offer Morris a 3 year, $21 mil deal. I really doubt that gets it done. Maybe he will replace Cain, who's headed to the Dodgers ;)
2005-11-19 11:26:31
217.   Steve
2005-11-19 11:28:07
218.   King of the Hobos
I'm thinking Steve isn't too optimistic about Alfonzo
2005-11-19 11:28:26
219.   Bob Timmermann
On an unrelated note, I want the Santa Ana winds in Southern California to end. I think we have negative humidity and all the water in my body is being sucked into the atmosphere. I think I will end up shriveling into nothingness soon.
2005-11-19 11:30:29
220.   sanchez101
I think its a bit overboard to call Kobe "unchoachable" or "selfish", or to blame Kobe for last years finish. Is he taking any more shots than Micheal Jordan did? I seem to remember Jordan having 12 for 30 games occasionally, but with that comes the occasional 40 point games, or last second buzzer beater.

Last years team had a lot to overcome, despite being young, the team lost its head coach midway through the season. Despite this the Lakers were in line for a playoff spot when Kobe was injured. Wow, can you imagine an LA team missing the playoffs largley because of injuries, and everyone convienently forgetting that fact and blaming the convenient targets? Sound familiar?

The Lakers front office didnt hang onto Kobe because he is a "name" player, if thats all that mattered why did they trade Shaq. They stuck with Kobe because he's one the 5 or so best players in the NBA, and he's got plenty of prime years left.

I agree that it wouldve been nice to get more for Shaq, but that was the best offer Kupchak could get, remember that Shaq had to approve of any trade. As for Shaq, he missed time due to injury last season, is already injured this season, and when he's healthy he can't play a full game. The guy was great but he's in decline, and a very poor investment going forward. If LA had, lets say, traded Kobe and kept Shaq, they would be in a similar situation to the Giants with Bonds; trying to win one more for the "big fella" while sacrificing the future.

Now Im not saying Kobe doesnt have his flaws or that he some great guy. But Kobe doesnt get any breaks from the media, and probably never will again. But to claim that his "intangibles" are so bad that the team would be better off without him is wrong. Look at characters like TO, Ron Artest, or even Milton Bradley, Kobe is far from being at any of those levels. There seems to be a phenomenon in sports that when a team fails to meet expectations, people tend to blame the best player (see Phillies, Bob Abreu). Why?

Im starting to see a lot of Barry Bonds in Kobe. Both guys are somewhat aloof, narcissisitic (sp?), and have a terrible relationship with the media. Both are also increadably talented sons of former ball players, who combine that talent with a great work ethic. Like Bonds, Kobe seems to be trying to prove every one wrong, thats why they both seem to feed of the negative reaction from other teams fans. This kind of scares me because Im not a big fan of Bonds, suprise, and the idea of watching Kobe follow the same path doesnt appeal to me. But, like Bonds, Kobe, no matter what his issues, is just too good a player to be without.

2005-11-19 11:33:53
221.   Steve
We now have our Ed Wade. Our Jim Bowden. We can no longer point the fingers. We have met the enemy, and it is us.
2005-11-19 11:36:31
222.   dzzrtRatt
221 only if Hacksaw's rumors are true. Which is sort of like saying the 'if the moon explodes.'
2005-11-19 11:38:30
223.   D4P
I'm not convinced Kobe is a "great" player. He was helped quite a bit earlier in his career by having Shaq draw triple-teams, as would any player have been. Without Shaq, he doesn't look very impressive. Scoring 30 points doesn't mean much when it takes 30 shots. The last 3 seasons his FG% has been .438, .433, .435. Again, not impressive.
2005-11-19 11:39:53
224.   Steve
222 -- I guarantee you that whether Hacksaw's rumors are true is the least of our concern.
2005-11-19 11:41:35
225.   King of the Hobos
The Colletti interview isn't revealing much. He keeps emphasizing that he needs to examine the farm system for 1-2 weeks. Seems like he won't touch the farm until the winter meetings (which is when you need to become scared)

"Will you be able to keep him [Kent]?" "I have no doubt"

If he had 5 more guys like Kent, he doesn't care if all they say is "heelo" and "goodbye"

Won't talk about Bradley, he needs to think "heavily" about it. Doesn't know about Weaver. He has between 3 and 8 people to consider for manager. He keeps emphasizing they must play the kids. No Piniella or Baker then?

Colletti talked on and on and on and...I can't wait until the day where he actually includes useful information in his babbling

2005-11-19 11:42:53
226.   D4P
To be fair, Depo never revealed useful information in his public speaking either.
2005-11-19 11:46:22
227.   King of the Hobos
226 DePo also took half the time to say it. He just talks so long. As someone who says what I need to as quickly as possible, I have a hard time understanding how people like Colletti can talk so much while saying so little
2005-11-19 11:49:08
228.   Bob Timmermann

You don't have a future in PR. Or academia then.

Once you get to college, you will meet a lot of people who talk a long time and never say anything.

After they get out of college, they grow up to be Camille Johnston.

2005-11-19 11:49:57
229.   natepurcell
re 227

like jim tracy?

2005-11-19 11:59:47
230.   HomeDePo
New Blog on the loose at blogger:

2005-11-19 12:07:44
231.   natepurcell
what would you guys trade for beckett and lowell?
2005-11-19 12:09:03
232.   natepurcell
someone on a yankee board just said they would never trade phill hughes for beckett and that hughes has higher potential than beckett and hughes could be starting for some MLB teams right now.

yankee homerism at its best.

2005-11-19 12:12:58
233.   King of the Hobos
We don't really have any young, fairly cheap players for Florida. Well, Choi and Bradley, but there's a good chance they don't want them. Jackson, Houlton, and the various young bullpen guys may also fit. Plug 2-3 of those guys and a prospect (Tiffany?), and we might have a deal. I doubt it though

A bunch of top prospects could also help

2005-11-19 12:13:32
234.   SiGeg
He keeps emphasizing they must play the kids.

This actually seems pretty significant to me. If this were DePo saying it, we'd probably interpret it as a reference to and swipe at Tracy.

Does anyone else get the feeling that Colletti is interested in pushing our prospects to get the big leagues faster?

2005-11-19 12:14:43
235.   King of the Hobos
232 And Wang is a future Cy Young and Cano is a future MVP. When the former has a 5+ ERRA and the latter hits about .250/.290/.350, they'll be available for anything the Yankees can get for them
2005-11-19 12:14:59
236.   natepurcell
beckett would be really good in DS. i personally think hes not going to fair very well in texas, and blalock is going to be pretty average in florida.

i think the trade isnt going to work out for either team.

if you look at becketts home/away splits and blalocks home and away splits, it does bode well for future success for either if this trade happens.

2005-11-19 12:18:37
237.   natepurcell
2005-11-19 12:24:09
238.   King of the Hobos
I could see the good Lowell reappearing in Texas. Arlington will improve his offense, and Florida will hurt Blalock, and with the difference in defense, I could see Lowell being the better player. If the included pitching prospect is great for Florida, that could be the big problem. Now that's it's known Beckett is on the market, I see some other teams offering up a lot, so I don't expect anything to happen soon
2005-11-19 12:34:17
239.   fanerman
223 - FG% in the NBA is like BA in baseball. BA doesn't factor in walks. FG% doesn't factor in three point shots or free throws (a player who shots 33% from the 3 is just as accurate as a player who shoots 50% for all 2-pointers).

eFG% factors in 3-pointers. Kobe's eFG% from the last 3 years: .483, .468, .482

Sounds better right?

TS% factors in free throws. Kobe's TS% from the last 3 years: .550, .551, .563

To compare, Shaq was at: .602, .578, .583

Garneet's TS% has been: .553, .547, .567

MJ's peak TS% was at .614, and during his pre-1st-retirement, stayed at around .600.

Stats from:

I'd get league leaders but I haven't found any (only looked right now). According to active players, Kobe is in the top 30 for TS%.

Kobe hasn't been that bad a shooter. Sure MJ was better and sure he could shoot a higher percentage, but he's not as bad as you make him out. Baseball isn't the only game with archaic stats.

2005-11-19 12:39:05
240.   Vishal
He keeps emphasizing they must play the kids

does choi count as one of "the kids"?

2005-11-19 12:41:16
241.   D4P
So...Kobe is in the top 30? That sounds about right. The guy is turning into one of those players who has gaudy totals, but primarily because he plays lots of minutes and takes lots of shots, not because he is an efficient producer. I would have to think that a lot of players could put up similar numbers if given the chance.
2005-11-19 12:48:23
242.   trainwreck
If the Marlins get Diamond in the trade then I definitely think it is in their favor. Beckett has the potential to be a really good player but he can not stay on the field and is inconsistent. Lowell is just expensive garbage so to me the Marlins make out great in the trade for getting good players in return for dumping Lowell.
2005-11-19 12:55:10
243.   natepurcell
i like diamond. but he stuck it up in AA at the age of 22 with a 5+ era. I think lowell could actually produce in texas so he might not be trash to the rangers.

i dunno, im on the fence with this deal, i dont see it drastically tilted towards either side right now.

i bet, if the dodgers approached the marlins about beckett, theyd probably ask for:

martin, billingsley and guzman.

martin to fill their catching void after they dump lo duca, billingsley to fill becketts spot, and guzman to fill RF when they move cabrera back to 3b.

2005-11-19 12:55:53
244.   fanerman
241 - Players above Kobe include:

Reggie Miller , Brent Barry, Peja, Brad Miller, Wally Szszerbiak, Jon Barry, Dikembe Mutombo, Jon Barry, Bo Outlaw, Eric Piatwoski, Wesley Person, Othella Harrington, Chauncey Billups, Christian Laetner, Steve Smith, Ruben Patterson, Mike Miller, and Kelvin Cato.

You can't judge a player simply on his TS%. Of course there are guys that shoot a high percentage but don't do other stuff. There are stats that cover more of a player's true value, like PER (Player Efficiency Rating), Player Wins, and even (gasp!) Win Shares. The only one I've been familiar with is PER and it's very common.

Info about PER here:

Kobe's last 5 years have been:
24.4, 23.2, 26.2, 23.7, 23.3

This year, his PER is at 25.4

Typical MVP years have PERs around 29-30. See:

Kobe has finished: 8th, 5th, 5th, 8th, and 6th in the last 5 years.

There's room for improvement of course, but Kobe has been a top 10 player for the last few years, certainly.

2005-11-19 12:57:26
245.   natepurcell
i thnks d4p view of kobe as not a top player is related to his view of kobe as a terrible person.

so therfore, d4p's view of kobes on the court abilities is certainly a very biased viewpoint.

2005-11-19 12:58:46
246.   fanerman
I'm not the biggest Kobe fan. But he's a good player and a better player to build the team around than Shaq at this point in their careers.
2005-11-19 13:00:13
247.   natepurcell
you can also make a point that shaq never won anything without kobe and that shaq needs a great 2 guard to be effective.
2005-11-19 13:08:18
248.   D4P
There's no question I now think Kobe is a jerk. But I also am not impressed by his game. I've seen WAY too many rushed, forced shots that I'm sure were not what the coach was looking for. I actually think he has a lot of talent, and could be a lot better if he changed his attitude and approach to the game. He could and should be among the best, but I think he falls short. He seems very stubborn and unwilling to change.

I'll be shocked if Phil serves out his contract, unless Kobe is traded/hurt. Kobe must drive Phil crazy. There was a reason why Phil called him uncoachable in the first place, and from what I've seen this season, Kobe hasn't gotten any better in that respect.

2005-11-19 13:11:21
249.   HomeDePo
Are most of the bloggers Lakers fans? Its good to see both LA teams succeeding to a certain extent, but my loyalty belongs to the Clips (ironic because I hate the Angels).
2005-11-19 13:12:41
250.   Rich Lederer
With respect to Player Efficiency Rating, any stat that lists Cedric Ceballos 76th and Bill Russell 88th all-time needs a lot of work.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-19 13:14:26
251.   fanerman
249 - I imagine there's a strong anti-Kobe anti-Laker faction. I've been a Laker fan all my life, and since I'm less attached to the Lakers than the Dodgers, I don't mind Kobe's on-the-court antics so much.
2005-11-19 13:14:42
252.   natepurcell
ahhh ceballos!!! man i remember him. circa 1995ish right?
2005-11-19 13:18:27
253.   D4P
We don't talk about the years between Magic's HIV press conference and Phil's arrival. They never happened.
2005-11-19 13:28:27
254.   dzzrtRatt
249 Didn't we decide some time ago that there's only one "blogger" on this site? That would be Jon. We're the comments section, where I believe the correct term for what we do is "post." That term even applies to the posters who have blogs elsewhere, like Rob and Rich and I'm sure many more of you. You blog on your own blog, you post on others. Unless you're posting on Defamer, in which case you have the exalted status of invited poster.
2005-11-19 13:30:22
255.   HomeDePo

I thought about using the word 'poster' but it did not sound that great. I was here for that conversation but it just completely slipped my mind.

No Disrespect to Jon...

2005-11-19 13:33:40
256.   sanchez101
250. I dont totally buy into PER, but I think its a more accurate measure than some fan's opinion. I think of it like fielding metrics in baseball, there are some problems, but that doesn't mean that John Kruk is right about Jeter being the best defensive shortstop.
2005-11-19 13:35:49
257.   Rich Lederer
256. Understood.
2005-11-19 13:36:51
258.   sanchez101
if beckett and lowell go to texas for blalock, im going to be pissed. The dodgers should be able to match that offer.
2005-11-19 13:39:58
259.   natepurcell
if beckett and lowell go to texas for blalock, im going to be pissed. The dodgers should be able to match that offer.

what would you offer from a dodgers perspective.

its probably going to be blalock +diamond/danks for beckett+ lowell..

2005-11-19 13:41:03
260.   dzzrtRatt
Which side of it? I'd kinda like to have Blalock.
2005-11-19 13:43:14
261.   dzzrtRatt
255 I'm sure Jon won't mind. He's probably faraway from here, on a Farm somewhere with his Stanfurd buds.
2005-11-19 13:45:12
262.   natepurcell
blalocks 3 yr splits:

243 .300 .407

316 .382 .560

becketts 3 yr splits:
away: 4.10

home: 3.41

2005-11-19 13:47:18
263.   sanchez101
259. first i would try to get them to take bradley, he would replace pierre. If they feel that bradley is to big of a risk, then I would have to go a different route. Trading navarro or martin wouldnt be bad. Perhaps even trading Kent, who would play first, allowing them to trade Delgado, buy trading Kent you would be albe to trade a lesser pitching prospect, instead of Billinglsey or Broxton, you could trade Tiffany, Orenduff, or maybe even Jackson. I woulnt mind trading guzman either.

So, lets say, Guzman + Tiffany + Jackson to Fla for Beckett and Lowell. If we could get any money to come along with lowell that would be nice, but he would help provide depth at third either infront of or behind Aybar.

2005-11-19 13:48:46
264.   sanchez101
260. Blalock would be a terrible fit, despite the fact that he's worse than beltre outside of texas, he would block at least two of our best prospects, LaRoche and Dewitt, and that assuming we send guzman over.
2005-11-19 13:55:24
265.   Bob Timmermann

I'm betting that Jon is not up on The Farm today.

2005-11-19 14:11:48
266.   trainwreck
I rock a Ceballas Laker jersey. Cedric and Eddie were the ones that got the Lakers out of bad times and that is why they will always be amongst my favorite players of all time.
2005-11-19 14:14:05
267.   dzzrtRatt
260 How long is Blalock signed for? When does he become eligible for FA? My guess is if LA got him somehow, he could be a one-two year answer, inexpensively. But--this is just a fantasy. Texas values him highly obviously, since they think he's worth a starting pitcher coming into his prime plus one of the best third basemen in the game assuming last year was a fluke.
2005-11-19 14:14:35
268.   bigcpa
Lowell still beat up LHP in 100 pa's:

I could easily see Lowell having a better 2006 than Nomar considering health. Beckett will make say $5M and $7M in '06/07 via arb. You're saving $6M vs. market rates and maybe you buy out a FA year or two.

2005-11-19 14:19:22
269.   dzzrtRatt
The bad Laker teams pre-Shaq were at least kind of interesting to watch, and fun to root for. I just can't stand them now. Nothing worse than an arrogant bad team. The Clippers are just fine to root for. Sterling seems to have loosened his grip just enough. I don't know if last night's game was "a watershed," but it was deeply satisfying to see Phil Jackson's ugly mug looking so embarassed and lost toward the end.
2005-11-19 14:21:22
270.   King of the Hobos
267 3 years, at about $13.7 mil (3, 4.75, 5.95). There's an option for a 4th year, and a $25K buyout (not sure what the option is)

Judging by his home/road splits, his value could decrease a lot if he came to LA

2005-11-19 14:22:13
271.   D4P
I agree on not liking to watch the Lakers, but I don't want to see Phil unhappy. He's my favorite aspect of the team right now. I always thought it was a mistake from his perspective to return.
2005-11-19 14:23:53
272.   trainwreck
I still think Lakers can be a playoff team. Odom needs to be more aggressive. Kwame just needs more confidence and not be so ancy with his moves and defense. Mihm is playing as well as one can hope. Parker is doing his job for the most part, what he lacks in playing straight up in defense he makes up for his quick hands and ability to steal. The bench sucks that is just fact. George needs to pass the ball more. I am tired of seeing George and Kobe go with two on one advnatages and not passing the ball. Kobe needs to realize he can not take so many shots if he is goin to shoot a bad percentage. The Lakers were winning games earlier because Kobe was letting the game come to him and was not forcing shots he was taking good open shots and was shooting a high percentage. He has since stopped doing that. Kobe and Odom have to lead this team.
2005-11-19 14:38:40
273.   scanderbeg
What? No love for Sedale Threatt on this thread?
2005-11-19 14:41:34
274.   Eric L
Blalock's OPS+ isn't all that and a bag of chips either. His career high was 118 in '03. Last season, it was 94. I'm not saying I wouldn't take him, but I think his homepark tends to overrate him a bit.

Just to put things in perspective (and I know they play different positions), Choi put up an OPS+ of 110 last season. Beltre had a terrible year last year and his was 90.

2005-11-19 14:44:59
275.   dzzrtRatt
Kobe needs to realize he can not take so many shots is like saying Frank McCourt needs to stop worrying about his PR image. You can say it til you're blue in the face, and they'd be the first to agree, but--never gonna happen. Under pressure, Kobe always thinks he's got the best shot, because, he's Kobe, doncha know.
2005-11-19 14:45:32
276.   bokonon42
Wow. So the football team loses to U.C. Davis, and the basketball team loses to U.C. Irvine. I wonder what kind of odds I can get when they play Cal Poly Pomona.
2005-11-19 14:46:53
277.   D4P
That's one of the things that most troubles me about Kobe. He plays "correctly" for a few games, and then abandons that approach and reverts to ballhog. You'd like to think his game would mature over time, but that doesn't seem to be happening. And part of me thinks that if Phil can't change Kobe, no one can.
2005-11-19 14:47:49
278.   bokonon42
Oops. I cut the sentence that had the word Stanford, in it. U.C. Irvine beat Stanford 79-63.
2005-11-19 14:50:53
279.   Vishal
[278] hahahahah way to go anteaters!
2005-11-19 14:51:44
280.   Bob Timmermann
To be fair to Stanford, UC Irvine has had periods of respectability in basketball.

And when I was at UCLA, I went to an NIT game at Pauley Pavilion where UCLA lost to UC Irvine.

And I've seen UCLA lost to Cal State Northridge in basketball also.

No stone casting here.

2005-11-19 14:52:26
281.   scanderbeg
277 - I agree. It's like once he works within the system that Jackson wants to put and place and the team wins, Kobe feels like he can then go into whatever selfish type of basketball he wants. It makes me wonder whether he gets it or not. There are reasons why the team wins when everyone is getting touches.

By the way, Chris Mihm is overrated and Kwame Brown is worse than advertised. I never thought I would long for the consistency of Elden Campbell in the post.

2005-11-19 14:56:18
282.   trainwreck
When was Elden Campbell ever consistent in the post?
2005-11-19 15:05:34
283.   Steve
Is all this talk about trading for Mike Lowell supposed to make us feel better when we end up with Alfonso?
2005-11-19 15:08:52
284.   trainwreck
I thought the Giants do not like guys who lack character and heart (or so they say). So why would they wany Bradley? Especially if Colletti would not want him. This we sacrifice talent for character talk may all be a bunch of junk after all.
2005-11-19 15:11:23
285.   natepurcell
of course it was a bunch of junk. colletti is an expert in PR, he knows thats what the LA media wants to hear.
2005-11-19 15:12:12
286.   D4P
Saying that Mihm is overrated is saying a lot, as he isn't rated that high to begin with.
2005-11-19 15:18:43
287.   dzzrtRatt
What would fly in the LA media for Colletti does not include getting Edgardo Alfonzo. He was a famous bust. If Colletti wants some great PR, getting WS hero Beckett and "gamer" Lowell is more the ticket. Getting Morris would be good PR. Getting Lyle Overbay would probably be good PR, assuming anyone here follows Milwaukee. Getting Beltre back would be good PR. Trading Choi would be good PR, even though it would be unpopular (a not-untypical PR paradox, where the media's ideas clash with the public's). Getting LoDuca back would be bad PR because it would look too much like a PR move, even though it would be popular.

This PR thing isn't easy. They pay a lot of people in this world a lot of money to do it, and most of time, it only leads to disappointment.

2005-11-19 15:21:56
288.   trainwreck
I do not think the public as a whole really likes Choi. They like to say his name but most fans think he is sucks. A lot of people probably do not even know anything about Lyle Overbay. LoDuca would be enormously popular here because people love him because uhhhh he was short I guess I am not sure.
2005-11-19 15:24:52
289.   Bob Timmermann
[Oscar Robles]
A great slugger we haven't got

[Derek Lowe]
A great pitcher we haven't got

[Ned Colletti]
A great ball club we haven't got

[Oscar, Derek & Ned]
What've we got?

We've got heart
All you really need is heart
When the odds are sayin' you'll never win
That's when the grin should start

2005-11-19 15:28:22
290.   scanderbeg
Mihm is labeled as an average center. I think he's worse than average.

My sarcasm must not translate in writing.

2005-11-19 15:28:34
291.   Nagman
280 As an Irvine alum and hoops follower, you are referring to the heydey of Anteater basketball, Bob. That was arguably the biggest win in the school's history.

If you told me back when I was in school (80-84) that in 25 years I'd still be waiting for their first NCAA tournament appearance, I wouldn't have believed you. However, yeah, there have been multiple periods of respectability as well as a handful of NBA players.

2005-11-19 15:37:14
292.   Clive Clements
291 Zot. I may be mixing up my years here, but I want to say that UCI really got screwed in 2001. Losing in the Big West tournament doesn't really help your chances, but that team deserved to go.
2005-11-19 15:37:37
293.   Uncle Miltie
288- he's, short, white, and a good bunter (according to someone's scrappy list)

There's no way that Alfonzo for Bradley deal goes down. Alfonzo is garbage now. He can't hit, he has no power, and he doesn't play defense. He is a worse hitter than J.T. Snow! I wouldn't take him for more than the league minimum.

If Texas includes Danks or Diamond, then it's a bad deal for them. Blalock was a very good hitter in the minors and in his first full season. Then he tried to hit for more power and his BA and patience at the plate decreased, while his strikeouts increased. Blalock is the type of hitter who should be competing for the batting title.

Who would I give up for Beckett? Choi, Edwin Jackson, and Navarro. Beckett is helped by his home park, but he strikes out a lot batters, gets more groundballs than flyballs, and doesn't give up a lot of home runs. He might be willing to stay with the Dodgers when he becomes a free agent because of Penny.

2005-11-19 15:43:58
294.   Linkmeister
I know Bob is a UH football watcher (I won't say fan), so I should let him know that the UH basketball team is playing #4 Michigan right now. UH leads 32-21 with 5:30 left in the first half.
2005-11-19 15:46:56
295.   Bob Timmermann
Sadly, UH sold their TV rights for football to ESPN for PPV. So no late nights with Jim Leahey. I was very saddened by this.

Congratulations to Wazzu for winning the Apple Cup.

The Civil War and Big Game are about to kick off.

2005-11-19 15:56:27
296.   Linkmeister
I was wrong. It's Michigan State, not Michigan.

UH is suffering severe attendance shortages at Aloha Stadium these days, in part because of a lousy record and in part because of PPV. There's also a big discussion with the Stadium Authority about banning beer sales at the stadium, and possibly (although how it would be enforced is beyond everybody) in the parking lot as well.

2005-11-19 15:58:21
297.   Bob Timmermann
UH fans? Drinking before or during a game? I'm shocked! Shocked!

The UH crowd is always an exemplar of good behavior.

Especially if BYU comes to town. (BYU and Utah tied late in the game in the battle for the Beehive Boot.)

2005-11-19 15:59:55
298.   Linkmeister
39-32 UH at the half.

How about this: it's an afternoon game not because televsion demanded it but because MSU is on its way to the Maui Invitational (memorable because Chaminade beat #1 Virginia and Ralph Sampson there in 1981 or thereabouts) and wants to attend the banquet over there tonight. I'm shocked.

2005-11-19 16:00:45
299.   Linkmeister
"The UH crowd is always an exemplar of good behavior."

Compared to what? ;)

2005-11-19 16:03:47
300.   natepurcell
if they could be acquired for the same package, who would you get, beckett or zito?

-amazing stuff
-big game pitcher
-only 25, best years are probably ahead
-has that texan pedigree-clemens, nolan ryan, etc
-lingering injury problems, especially blisters
-never pitched more than 180 innings in a season

-lefty with above average secondary pitches
-former cy young winner, only 26 years old
-HUGE innings eater
-very durable, no injury history, no signs of breaking down whatsoever

who would you acquire? do you value zito durabilty over becketts potential?

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-19 16:06:37
301.   Bob Timmermann
We were told how wonderful the Notre Dame fans were when Navy visited by Mr. Naccarato.

Of course, an usher who works there said that during the Tennessee game one fan decided to urinate on the Tennessee fans sitting in front of him.

2005-11-19 16:08:04
302.   Linkmeister
It's wartime. Gotta be nice to the service academies. Tennessee, on the other hand...
2005-11-19 16:08:46
303.   trainwreck
That is hard question because you know what Zito is going to give you since he always plays, while Beckett could give you potentially more. I am swayed to o with Beckett though because he is under contract for two more years I believe while Zito is up after this season and has Boras as an agent.
2005-11-19 16:09:56
304.   Bob Timmermann
The NY Times article today about how Yale and Harvard were trying to cut back on binge drinking before games was met with a lot of resistance is one of the reasons that when I go to a college football game, I try to just show up as close to the starting time as possible and then just walk in.

I really don't want to watch a lot of people stagger around drunk in the name of "school spirit."

2005-11-19 16:10:59
305.   natepurcell
from cott's contracts page about zito:

agent: Arn Tellum (fired Scott Boras late in 2001 season)

2005-11-19 16:13:25
306.   Bob Timmermann
Looks Penn State has locked up the first spot in the BCS. They're up by 17 at East Lansing with a few minutes left.

USC gets a spot if Oregon wins.

2005-11-19 16:14:46
307.   Linkmeister
I'm in no real position to judge behavior at UH games, other than what I've read in the papers. The last college football game I attended (other than the Hula Bowl all-star-game, which doesn't arouse the same passions) was probably UofA-ASU back in 1972. I was in the student section then.
2005-11-19 16:19:14
308.   Bob Timmermann
FWIW, when my friends were at the UH-USC game this year, they said the crowd was very nice. But there were a lot of USC fans.

But UH really hates BYU and BYU does not like to travel there. It helps that they are in different conferences now.

I doubt UH fans are that much worse than fans in other places where you can drink a lot before the games. Cal fans are not exactly known for their hospitality.

2005-11-19 16:30:15
309.   scanderbeg
300 - Zito has proven to be more durable, probably because he doesn't throw a 95+ fastball. I would go with Beckett, however, because of his potential dominance. Who knows, maybe acquiring Beckett may improve Brad Penny's "morale" (seeing how they were teammates) and, therefore, improve team "chemistry."
2005-11-19 16:31:16
310.   Linkmeister
BYU was always a one-sided rivalry. Because its teams beat UH so often it got really heated. I think BYU is much more attuned to UofUtah as a rival than it ever was to UH.

It's like anything else; a few drunks make it appear far worse than it really is. They're the ones who get on tv, so everyone assumes the whole crowd is like that.

2005-11-19 16:31:27
311.   natepurcell
beckett= billingsley
zito= tiffany

only in my dreams right?

2005-11-19 16:32:18
312.   trainwreck
Well not like Arn Tellum is a whole lot better. What would we give up in the trade for the players that would impact my opinion?
2005-11-19 16:33:19
313.   Bob Timmermann
And the Beehive Boot goes to ....

Utah, prevailing 41-34 in overtime.

Actually, with UH I think the image problem was more with the players getting into fights on the field than the fans. But that seems to have been curtailed recently.

2005-11-19 16:34:32
314.   trainwreck
Also how are team is set up. I think Zito is more for a one year let-s go for it kind of deal, while Beckett we would have at least two seasons and may be easier to get him to agree on an extension (just because I think there is no chance Zito agrees to one without seeing the open market).
2005-11-19 16:34:42
315.   scanderbeg
311 - Is Tiffany's breaking stuff really his bread and butter? I was under the impression that his fastball was really his strikeout pitch. I only ask because of the comparisons.

Who still has hope for Edwin Jackson to be more than a Ramon Ortiz?

2005-11-19 16:37:55
316.   trainwreck
I have hope just not a lot of it. At least he is still young haha.
2005-11-19 16:41:06
317.   natepurcell
Is Tiffany's breaking stuff really his bread and butter? I was under the impression that his fastball was really his strikeout pitch. I only ask because of the comparisons.

BA says tiff has an avg fastball but above average cb and change up to go along with his "moxie". personally i dont believe the avg fastball comment. in his scouting video of him pitching in HS, he was reguarly hitting 93 and sitting in the 91-94 range. so if somehow he lost velocity since being in the dodgers system, i wouldnt call 91-94 an "average" fastball, especially coming from a lefty.

Who still has hope for Edwin Jackson to be more than a Ramon Ortiz?

i personally still believe in jackson. apparently so does baseball america who says his big league comp is john smoltz. I personally dont see a smoltz comparison, but hey, im not the one that threw it out there.

2005-11-19 16:45:38
318.   natepurcell
the biggest concern about jackson that i have is his fastball velocity.

it could be that back spasms last year zapped his fb velocity from what we saw in LA towards the end of the year. Becuase if he can really only pitch at 88-92 now, hes turned into jerome williams.

2005-11-19 16:48:44
319.   Bob Timmermann
If Jackson has turned into Jerome Williams, Linkmeister will be all over that story!
2005-11-19 16:54:14
320.   Eric L
293 Not that I don't believe you, but Blalock's career minor league BA was .314

I'm not sure that he will ever compete for a batting title. He plays in a hitter's paradise 81 games a season now. I think he is a decent hitter, but way, way overrated.

Mark Teixeira on the other hand.. drool...

2005-11-19 16:59:37
321.   scanderbeg
Where are Kemp, DeWitt, LaRoche, Tiffany, etc. expected to start next season?

Will James Loney get a chance at the major league roster this coming spring?

2005-11-19 17:04:57
322.   Uncle Miltie
trainwreck, is right, Arn Tellem isn't much better than Boras to negoiate with. Tellum and Zito will probably want to test FA, just like Boras. Beckett's agent is Mike Moye, who I've never heard of, which is probably a good thing. I'm not a big Zito fan, but he stays healthy and goes deep into games. If his agent was Arn Tellem, I'd be more interested. Tellem is also Nomar's agent.

Speaking of Edwin Jackson, his agent is Scott Boras, so we should be interested in dealing him. If he turns out to be a bust, we won't want him. If he turns into a great pitcher, he'll walk as a FA.

2005-11-19 17:05:30
323.   Uncle Miltie
2005-11-19 17:08:16
324.   bokonon42
World Series Hero Geoff Blum is head back to San Diego on a one year contract? Why was I not informed of this? Looking at the ESPN free agent tracker, he looks to be the best signing of the post season, so far.
2005-11-19 17:09:43
325.   King of the Hobos
321 These are largely guesses, but... Loney will start in Vegas, Kemp and Tiffany in Jacksonville, and DeWitt in Vero Beach. Laroche could end up at Jacksonville for a month or two, but he'll be in Vegas before long. I don't see Loney getting a chance at the ML roster
2005-11-19 17:11:29
326.   natepurcell
kemp- AA jacksonville OF
raglani- AA jacksonville OF
dewitt- high A Vero 2b or 3b
tiffany- AA jacksonville
miller- AA jacksonville
hu- AA jacksonville SS
abreu- AA jacksonville 2b
elbert- high A vero
denker- high A vero 2b/3b/lf

laroche- AAA vegas 3b
guzman- AAA vegas ss
martin- AAA vegas
young- AAA vegas 2b/lf
loney- AAA vegas 1b
ruggianno- AAA vegas OF

i personally would like loney to start off in vegas and then if he shows his power from the AFL is for real, get called up by june.

2005-11-19 17:11:31
327.   King of the Hobos
324 Because the Padres hid it right amid their acquisition of Cameron. The difference between Blum's and Marlon Anderson's contracts shows that Bowden got lucky in the Lawrence trade
2005-11-19 17:13:19
328.   natepurcell
i dont see laroche starting off at jax. the dodgers will move the positional core players up through the minors together. so that means wherever martin goes, laroche, guzman and loney will go. and so on.
2005-11-19 17:20:42
329.   Uncle Miltie
The Red Sox have joined the Rangers in the chase for Josh Beckett, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports.
According to Gammons, the Marlins are asking for Hanley Ramirez and either Jon Lester or Anibal Sanchez. They'd also want the Red Sox to take Lowell's contract, which might be a dealbreaker. Beckett for Ramirez and Sanchez would probably be worth doing for Boston. Beckett's a health risk, but he's still a better bet for the future than A.J. Burnett and he won't command all that much money in arbitration over the next two years.

We could easily top that deal. Hanley Ramirez is all hype, though he is pretty young. Anibal Sanchez=Justin Orenduff. Offer Navarro, Orenduff, and Jackson for Pierre and Beckett. Then we can flip Pierre off to some other team. Pierre to the White Sox for Aaron Rowand?

2005-11-19 17:21:45
330.   King of the Hobos
Laroche only had a few months at AA, although I'm thinking the Dodgers wanted him in the AFL to get him to Vegas next year. The more I think about it, the more I think nate is right.

I sure hope they don't get too use to playing with Weber and Meadows (who were both re-signed). And Tiffany and co. better not like their catcher as he repeats AA with them

2005-11-19 17:22:33
331.   Linkmeister
If Jackson turns into Jerome Williams, all of Waipahu will be astonished.

Final: UH 84 MSU 62

Coach Riley Wallace gets his 300th career victory (against 241 defeats).

2005-11-19 17:25:21
332.   King of the Hobos
329 I don't really want to deal Navarro yet, unless we have someone ready to take over. Martin is not a known quantity yet, and do we really want Phillips for another year?
2005-11-19 17:27:59
333.   Uncle Miltie
320- maybe I was exaggerating a little bit, but I think he could have a few season in which he hits between .315-.330. Not a good fit for the Dodgers though. He's below average defensively and hits a fair amount of doubles.
2005-11-19 17:29:16
334.   natepurcell
im really curios if colletti is going to pursue beckett. If he does, he needs to bring logan white to the negotiating table.
2005-11-19 17:31:11
335.   Uncle Miltie
332- I'd only trade Navarro if we didn't have to take on Lowell's contract too. I would overpay a guy like Brad Ausmus. Offer him 2 years for $8 million. He could start 120 games this year and if Martin is ready in 2007, he could split time him.
2005-11-19 17:32:00
336.   Vishal
i would take zito over beckett, but i'm partial.
2005-11-19 17:32:39
337.   natepurcell
brad ausmus is like 36 years old and is a type A free agent.

your going to give ausmus a 4 mil a yr deal and give up a top draft pick?

2005-11-19 17:32:52
338.   Uncle Miltie
nate- would you trade Navarro, Orenduff, and Jackson for Pierre and Beckett and then turn around and trade Pierre for Aaron Rowand?
2005-11-19 17:34:29
339.   King of the Hobos
334 Based on the Hacksaw interview, he's not very comfartable dealing prospects right now, saying he'd have a good idea by the GM meetings.

Any deal before then would likely be orchestrated by the holdovers in the front office, such as White. He didn't sound like he was in a rush to do what he did with the Giants. I also don't see anything major happening without a manager

2005-11-19 17:35:14
340.   natepurcell
yea i probably would.
2005-11-19 17:36:46
341.   Bob Timmermann
Barnburner up on The Farm. 6-3 Bears at halftime.


Oregon is on its way to putting USC in to the BCS.

2005-11-19 17:37:31
342.   natepurcell
i think beckett is poised for a HUGE prime.

his blister problems have kept his innings relatively low from his 22-25 years, thus keeping his arm in good shape to log innings in his prime.

he also has the build of a prototypical power pitcher and hes a type of a pitcher, like clemens and ryans, that could age very well into his 30s.

2005-11-19 17:38:13
343.   trainwreck
I really do not think the White Sox are dumb enough to trade Rowand for Pierre.
2005-11-19 17:39:06
344.   natepurcell
i think kenny williams might become fixated with "smartball" now.
2005-11-19 17:41:14
345.   Uncle Miltie
nate- I know he's not worth that much money (or the 2nd round draft pick), but the free agent market at catcher is very slim. We could try to acquire a catcher through trade, but I wouldn't want to give up much. The Diamondbacks aren't happy with Chris Snyder, who I thought would develop into a fine catcher, but he's looking more and more like David Ross. Damian Miller would be nice, but the Brewers probably want to keep him around for his "veteran leadership" and so he can help the young pitchers. Javier Valentin would be nice, but the Reds will probably want a good pitching prospect for him.
2005-11-19 17:41:50
346.   Bob Timmermann
Would an outfield combo of Podsednik and Pierre give up more bases with their popgun arms with runners taking the extra base or would they steal more bases?
2005-11-19 17:42:43
347.   Uncle Miltie
from rotoworld:
The White Sox have interest in acquiring Juan Pierre, perhaps for Damaso Marte and/or Aaron Rowand.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but with multiple sources reporting the story, there must be some truth to it. Pierre is both a worse player than Rowand and the more expensive of the two. Plus, he'd only be under the club's control for one year. If the White Sox do decide they need Pierre to go along with Scott Podsednik, they should at least refuse to give up Rowand in the deal and try to use him to upgrade elsewhere.
2005-11-19 17:45:12
348.   regfairfield
347 Suddenly, I really want Juan Pierre.
2005-11-19 17:46:50
349.   natepurcell
i have to not believe kenny williams isnt that stupid to give up marte and rowand for pierre.
2005-11-19 17:47:45
350.   natepurcell
too many negatives in my sentence. it should probably say

"i have to believe"

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-11-19 17:49:09
351.   Bob Timmermann
You have to not believe Kenny Williams is not that stupid to not give up Marte and Rowand for Pierre.

See, go for the triple negative to cross 'em up.

2005-11-19 17:52:31
352.   D4P
Speaking of double and triple negatives, I just watched the most recent Star Wars installment today for the first time. I think they went overboard with Yoda's unique sentence structure. It used to be kinda cute when he'd throw in a backwards sentence here and there, but now every sentence is backwards. But I did like his "Not if anything to say about it, I have" line.
2005-11-19 17:56:31
353.   King of the Hobos
If we want an extremely cheap catcher, there's one that is hitting .358/.404/.473 in 95 ABs in the DWL, and hit .333/.394/.595 in 351 ABs this year. And he's only 30!

And what would he cost? An NRI at most!

2005-11-19 17:58:21
354.   Uncle Miltie
After making the big deal for Beckett and Pierre, Ned receives a call from Kenny Williams.

Kenny: Hi Ned. Congratulations....I want Pierre.
Ned: Thanks...well...I just traded for him, but I suppose I'd be interested Aaron Rowand
Kenny: I'll give Rowand and Marte!
[Ned chokes on his caviar]
Ned: What .. what was that you just?
Kenny: I'll give you Rowand and that not enough?
[Ned places his hand of the receiver of the phone and tells Kim Ng about the possible trade]
Ned: Well Kenny, I'm really looking for another starting pitcher, so I'd be interested in that kid Brandon McCarthy.
Kenny: As you know Ned, Brandon is one of the top prospects in my system. I would need a comparable prospect in return.
Unaware that the year is 2005, not 2003, Kenny replies:
For the deal to work, I would need Edwin Jackson.
[Shocked by the response, Ned high fives Ng and say]:
YES! DEAL! Fax it over right now!

2005-11-19 17:59:30
355.   Uncle Miltie
353- I'm not interested in Angel "Cheeseburger" Pena
2005-11-19 18:00:02
356.   natepurcell
then williams gets lucky again and ejax turns into doc gooden and white sox repeat....
2005-11-19 18:02:44
357.   King of the Hobos
355 Dang, I was hoping you wouldn't figure it out. And if it matters, lists him at 176 lbs, which has to be wrong.
2005-11-19 18:14:07
358.   D4P
At the end of the first quarter, Dallas is leading Detroit 40-16.

Dallas shot 81% from the floor, Detroit 28%. And the ESPN box score indicates that Dallas has -1 turnovers.

2005-11-19 18:16:18
359.   trainwreck
I can not believe MSU lost to Hawaii in basketball.
2005-11-19 19:15:50
360.   bokonon42
I hope Stanford's QB doesn't have to drive home, after the game. It's a wonder his head is still attached to his neck, actually.
2005-11-19 19:17:33
361.   underdog
Dunno if this was mentioned here already, but Orel Hershiser is no longer a possible Dodgers manager candidate (not that many of you were still harboring hopes anyway...) But he resigned as Texas pitching coach to become their Executive Director.
2005-11-19 19:20:12
362.   fanerman
Go Bears!
2005-11-19 19:20:23
363.   underdog
Oops. Sorry, didn't see #185 saying the same thing. Anyway... too bad, I was hoping they could find a place for him somewhere. But the timing was bad (self-inflicted, thanks to McCourt) and obviously Colletti's too new to quickly hire Orel for something.
2005-11-19 19:20:55
364.   Vishal
...and some people (kyle sherwood of, ESPN's kirk herbstreit) had picked stanford to win.
2005-11-19 19:24:17
365.   Bob Timmermann
So Stanford went 0 for 3 against the University of California.

I'm not sanguine about their chances against Notre Dame next week. 184 yards of offense isn't going to get it done.

2005-11-19 19:26:09
366.   Vishal
all notre dame had to do was beat navy, syracuse, and stanford in its last 3 games to be guaranteed a BCS berth. there's something wrong about that. notre dame needs to be put into a conference already.
2005-11-19 19:34:14
367.   Bob Timmermann
Notre Dame is beyond reproach according to what I've been told. If they're good, college football is somehow more meaningful.

It's a load of horse hockey.

I'm hoping that South Florida wins its last two games and gets a BCS berth.

Since Oregon won, USC is in the BCS (big surprise!). If there were a miracle and UCLA upset USC, I highly doubt that UCLA would get a BCS bid. The at-large spots will go to Notre Dame and Ohio State.

2005-11-19 19:41:06
368.   bokonon42
Fresno State fumbles its way to a touchdown. Well played.

Anybody know why the UCLA/USC game isn't the same day as all the other Pac 10 rival games? Actually, did ASU/U of A play today?

2005-11-19 19:49:41
369.   Uncle Miltie
Kirk "I predict UCLA will lose this week" Herbstreit? Really?
2005-11-19 19:55:12
370.   Bob Timmermann

ABC wanted a Pac-10 game to be played on the same day as all the conference championships.

The game will be in December in 2006, but return to its normal date in 2007.

A few years back UCLA played Washington State after USC and another year USC played Oregon State.

2005-11-19 20:07:28
371.   Bob Timmermann
Ron Franklin and Bob Davie referred to Miami's Devin Hester as the best punt returner in the nation.


And Reggie Bush doesn't have enough returns to qualify.

2005-11-19 20:12:51
372.   Bob Timmermann
Miami loses. Does anyone in America root for Miami?
2005-11-19 20:22:23
373.   Uncle Miltie
So are you rooting against USC Bob?
2005-11-19 20:25:04
374.   Bob Timmermann
I'm in acceptance with USC.
2005-11-19 20:42:17
375.   overkill94
Fresno State representing my hometown central valley. Is this just USC biding their time again, or have they finally met their match?
2005-11-19 20:44:43
376.   Vishal
fresno state looks very good. their offense is crisp and efficient, and their special teams are ridiculously good.

and normally i like rooting for underdogs, but i gotta root for USC because i really really want them to beat texas.

2005-11-19 20:49:28
377.   overkill94
With Miami losing tonight, would USC really get knocked out of the top-2 though? It's not like Fresno State is a patsy, they are ranked 16th and only lost to Oregon by 3.
2005-11-19 20:51:52
378.   D4P
I'm hoping the Ducks can sneak into a BCS bowl, but I don't think it's gonna happen. The good news is that 2 teams ranked ahead of them lost.
2005-11-19 20:52:30
379.   Bob Timmermann
All this supposition is based on USC losing, which I think still has only a 10% chance at best of happening.
2005-11-19 20:54:31
380.   overkill94
That's why it's supposition :)

What else are we supposed to do while waiting for the game to unfold?

2005-11-19 20:55:48
381.   King of the Hobos
Well, Piniella won't be the next Dodger manager. He has declined his invitation, and Colletti. Colletti makes it sound like Piniella didn't want the prospect-laden, questionable 2006 rsoter, but would do it next year after we've gained credibility

"He said it wasn't the right time," said Colletti. "He said a year from now he'd be all over it. But he didn't know if he could do it justice."

Gurnick also makes it sound like Colletti really isn't interested in Collins, he was talking to him. All this from, as I'm sure Gurnick gave it away

2005-11-19 20:58:52
382.   D4P
The story on LATimes states in part:

Dodger General Manager Ned Colletti, three other Dodger executives and manager candidate Jim Fregosi met Saturday afternoon in Tampa, Fla., a 3 1/2-hour conversation Colletti called "a pretty great exchange."

Lou Piniella, citing a need to take a break from the game after being bought out by Tampa Bay last month, told Colletti on Saturday that he has no interest in becoming the Dodger manager, and it appears Terry Collins will not be a candidate after all.

Colletti met with Collins for about an hour Saturday. Collins said the subject of managing the Dodgers never came up.

"We just talked about the organization," Collins said. "The players, staff, facilities, things like that."

Asked whether he took that as a sign he would not be considered to manage, he said, "I didn't take it as anything."

He said he was not disappointed, and that from the meeting he concluded that he could work well with Colletti, if that meant continuing in his role as farm director.

2005-11-19 21:03:19
383.   Steve
Tony Muser? TONY MUSER!!!!
2005-11-19 21:06:40
384.   King of the Hobos
So Colletti probably just wants to know more about the minor league system rather than interviewing Collins. I wonder if he gave Collins a chance to join the GM quartet (they need a name). At this point, a super GM of 4 (or 5) individuals makes me feel a lot better about Colletti. That could very well be the best "GM" for McCourt to choose

If you're a fan of Mexico or Guatemla baseball, then I feel bad for you, as they'll never be in the Olympics again (unless baseball is reinstated). The US, Canada, Nicaragua, and Panama all made it to the next round

The Fort Worth Star-telegram said major league officials have confirmed there's trade talks, and has said Danks is the pitching prospect in question. A deal could be reached as early as tomorrow

2005-11-19 21:07:30
385.   Bob Timmermann
Tony Muser could restore some of that Dodger tradition. I remember the Tony Muser Era. Ahh, it was a great time.

I can't imagine that the Angels would let Bud Black go under these cirumstances. Or why he would want to take such an awful job.

2005-11-19 21:14:23
386.   King of the Hobos
So, about naming Colletti and his aides... It appears Colletti's intent is to have them become a single body with equal say, he's just the "GM" because he wants to do the talking. Make Colletti the figurehead/PR guy, Ng the negotiator, Smith the stats guy (DePo hired him, I can only assume he's good at it), and White the talent evaluator

I'm not too good at coming up with names. I got the generic stuff like the Dodgers League and whatnot, but that's boring. The most creative thing I have is "The Colletting Whitesmith"

And yes, this is of the utmost importance. Can you tell I'm bored by halftime?

2005-11-19 21:15:37
387.   D4P
It's pretty sad that the Dodgers franchise is having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with GM and managerial candidates. I'm guessing there was a time when folks would jump at the chance to be associated with the Dodgers. That sure doesn't seem to be the case these days.
2005-11-19 21:16:00
388.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA was called for just 4 fouls in its win over Delaware State tonight.


That has to be a pretty low total during the shot clock era. I imagine that some games where a team stalled most of the game might have had fewer. The NCAA doesn't keep a record for fewest fouls. They do keep a record for most fouls called against a team in one game.

That's 50! By Arizona back in 1953. Their opponent Northern Arizona got called for 34 fouls.

2005-11-19 21:19:23
389.   Steve
Even the idle rumors are getting lamer. Though I must say that the idea of getting Mike Lowell is just as lame as it was when Tim Brown suggested it back in May.
2005-11-19 21:21:12
390.   D4P
Delaware St. attempted ZERO free throws. That's gotta tie the record...
2005-11-19 21:22:23
391.   Bob Timmermann
Somehow I don't see fans getting excited about a guy who was fired by Kansas City with 5 complete losing seasons and parts of 2 others (also under .500) leading the Dodgers back to the Promised Land.
2005-11-19 21:24:20
392.   Bob Timmermann
The NCAA record book has teams with 0 FT attempts or makes as being "many".

Fewest points in a game is a 1973 game between Tennesse and Temple.

Final score: Tennessee 11, Temple 6.

2005-11-19 21:27:17
393.   Linkmeister
359 Believe it. I watched that game. UH had a 39-32 lead at the half and midway through the second half had an 11-pt run which more or less put MSU away. MSU has conditioning problems, it looked like: at least two players cramped up really badly. That doesn't bode well for their chances in Maui, where they play 3 games in 3 days.
2005-11-19 21:29:01
394.   Linkmeister
I remember Muser as a player in the PCL for either the Spokane Indians or the "dreaded" Portland Beavers, as one of our local sportscasters used to call them.
2005-11-19 21:29:22
395.   Bob Timmermann
Did they finally put air conditioning into the gym at Maui? That place was quite stuffy when I was there.

The Maui Classic is a lot of fun to watch.

2005-11-19 21:30:33
396.   Steve
But Bill Plaschke will be excited. Of course, Colletti could carnally relate with Plaschke's dog and Plaschke would be happy at this point. 2006 Colletti will be 2005 Beltre -- Plaschke's adopted "Big Lie."
2005-11-19 21:31:30
397.   D4P
In 14 seasons, Fregosi put together a lifetime .484 winning percentage, with 5 winning seasons and 2 division titles. In addition to those credentials, while he never played for the Giants, he was born in San Francisco.

Colletti should waste no time in signing this man.

2005-11-19 21:33:42
398.   Bob Timmermann
At least Tony Muser was born in Los Angeles.
2005-11-19 21:34:10
399.   Linkmeister
I don't know if they've got A/C over there. I'd be willing to bet not, but not a lot of money. Maui's had a huge housing boom, so property taxes have surely been going up.
2005-11-19 21:41:14
400.   Bob Timmermann
I know everyone here is really more excited about the first game for Tim Floyd as coach of the USC basketball team.

The Trojans take on CSUN at the Sports Arena at 2 pm Sunday.

It's the last year at the Sports Arena for USC. I'm sure everyone will be very teary-eyed about it.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-11-19 22:02:23
401.   Bob Timmermann
Right now, Reggie Bush 13 carries, 205 yards. But he got 110 of them on two carries. So 95 yards on the other 11. Still not bad.
2005-11-19 22:15:08
402.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA's plan now is to hope that Reggie Bush is really tired after tonight.
2005-11-19 22:46:02
403.   King of the Hobos
The Marlins reportedly have everyone not named Cabrera or Willis available for trade. The Mets supposedly are trying to get Castillo. Really, other than the usual suspects, not a whole lot of their guys impress me. If they trade Castillo, we may be able to get something for Aybar/Perez/Young/maybe Robles? They have Beckett, Pierre, Castillo, Lowell, LoDuca, Delgado, and Mota, not a lot of impressive players, save for the expensive Delgado and Beckett. They're not real high on Willmingham, he's interesting, but we have enough utility players already. Not sure if Vargas is available, he's another guy that would be interesting, but at his price, I don't see the Marlins dealign him. Thoughts?

Fresno is having a hell of a game. I like USC, but I think I may have to root for my dad's alma mater

2005-11-19 22:49:43
404.   Xeifrank
I think this USC/Fresno State game has to be one of the most exciting 3 1/2 quarters of college football I've ever seen. You have to give FSU alot of credit, these guys just won't go away. vr, Xei
2005-11-19 22:56:22
405.   Xeifrank
From the boxscore it looks like Reggie Bush has over 500 all purpose yards. Rushing, receiving, kickoff and punt returns.
vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:02:08
406.   Bob Timmermann
The Fox guys said 502. The single game record is 578 by ...

Emmett White of Utah State in 2000 against New Mexico State.

2005-11-19 23:05:24
407.   Bob Timmermann
USC hasn't given up 42 points in a game that didn't go to overtime since 1990 when they beat UCLA 45-42.

One other national champion has had a game in which it has given up 42 points, Penn State in 1982. They lost to Alabama 42-21.

2005-11-19 23:05:42
408.   Xeifrank
Looks like that failed two point conversion by USC could come into play. 50-42 USC with about 3 mins left. vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:07:55
409.   Xeifrank
Bob, which high school playoff game did you cover the other night. We had many good local first round games. vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:09:53
410.   Bob Timmermann
Hey, I was on the radio!

I was covering the Rio Mesa at T.O. game. Very exciting game.

2005-11-19 23:11:04
411.   Xeifrank
410. Cool. Seems like all the local games were nailbiters. Our local H.S., won on a FG as time expired. vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:12:31
412.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, the Scorpions of Camarillo!

Not every local game was exciting. Oaks Christian won 77-7 or something like that.

2005-11-19 23:13:41
413.   Xeifrank
412. Oaks Christian as you know is a joke. They could probably give USC a game. :)
vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:14:46
414.   Bob Timmermann
I think that if Oaks Christian played a team like St. Bonaventure or Mission Viejo, they would not fare as well. They have no idea what adversity is.
2005-11-19 23:17:12
415.   King of the Hobos
My school's team played Mission Viejo last night. We gave them quite a fight, coming down to the wire. Or we were destroyed 55-0. I think it was the latter

And that interception sucks

2005-11-19 23:17:21
416.   Uncle Miltie
What a stupid play!
2005-11-19 23:17:23
417.   Xeifrank
Ok, that should be the ball game for USC. Wasn't too happy when the defender ran the interception out of the end zone though.
vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:18:59
418.   Xeifrank
I bet the odds are pretty good that USC scores more points in their next game!
vr, Xei
2005-11-19 23:19:19
419.   Bob Timmermann
USC will likely get 50 or more against UCLA two weeks from now.

But UCLA isn't going to make it to 42.

2005-11-19 23:19:54
420.   King of the Hobos
I stayed up near Fresno last weekend. Based on the papers I read up there, this is a huge victory for Fresno, despite the lack of an actual victory. Hell of a game, not many teams can do what they did against USC
2005-11-19 23:26:05
421.   Bob Timmermann
All in all, I think Fresno State would have preferred the real win to the moral victory. Those are a lot more satisfying.

I wonder if anyone on the East Coast even knows how the game ended. They likely won't know about the result until Monday. After tomorrow is an NFL Sunday.

For entertainment purposes: Fresno covered the spread, which was around 24 points.

2005-11-19 23:27:18
422.   Uncle Miltie
Good news for the Lakers (only the title of the article is needed):
Brown Could Be Out Two Weeks
2005-11-19 23:29:38
423.   das411
Welp, the better team won tonight and my friends in the Blue Band will not get to go to Pasadena, oh well. At least we will still have our skill players next year.
2005-11-19 23:33:25
424.   Brendan
Total Offense
732 David Klingler, Houston vs. Arizona St., 1990
696 Matt Vogler, TCU vs. Houston, 1990
625 David Klingler, Houston vs. TCU, 1990
625 Scott Mitchell, Utah vs. Air Force, 1988
612 Jimmy Klingler, Houston vs. Rice, 1992
2005-11-19 23:35:07
425.   Brendan
rushing single game

406 LaDainian Tomlinson, TCU vs. UTEP, 1999
396 Tony Sands, Kansas vs. Missouri, 1991
386 Marshall Faulk, San Diego St vs. Pacific, 1991
378 Troy Davis, Iowa St. vs. Missouri, 1996
377 Anthony Thompson, Indiana vs. Wisconsin, 1989
373 Astron Whatley, Kent vs. E. Michigan, 1997

2005-11-19 23:38:29
426.   Bob Timmermann
Bush's total falls under the title of "All-Purpose Yards", which is rushing + receiving + returns.

Total Offense is passing + rushing + receiving.

2005-11-19 23:41:28
427.   Brendan
oh reread your post on 406. never mind, carry on
2005-11-19 23:57:42
428.   Bob Timmermann
I'm just glad Emmitt White keeps his name in the record books.

Whatever became of him.

2005-11-20 06:03:28
429.   John A
I went to bed in a really good mood: the Dodgers had finally fired Jim Tracy, meaning DePo has a free hand. But I had this horrible, crazy nightmare: McCourt fired DePo and replaced him with some guy who looks like a puffed-up Kevin Malone and shares Dodger Boy's baseball philosophy. The nighmare ended with puffed-up-Malone whispering these words: Tony Muser.

I'm still trembling.

2005-11-20 07:16:16
430.   J Rebel
So I'm out in Vegas doing grad work and I have season tix for Rebels Football. Anyone who keeps up with the mighty Mountain West Conference knows we're waiting for USC transfers Hinds and Wright next year.

Anyway, so I'm feeling the effects of a solid tailgating session and on the Colorado State sideline who do I see? Tommy Lasorda!?! What? We were skeptical until some shlub starts screaming for him. Tommy dismissively waves him down.

Lasorda gets interviewed by the CSU journalism students and proceeds out of the stadium...probably to Buca. :) Too bad, wanted to subtly pick his pickled brain at the concession stand.

The nearby fans and I were trying to figure out the degrees of separation here. It was some entertainment for us before the Rebels proceeded to give back the game to the Rams.

2005-11-20 08:29:49
431.   RELX
Tony Muser? Fregosi? Where is Colleti getting these names from? I am already longing for Terry Collins and Alan Trammell!
2005-11-20 08:38:21
432.   molokai
I guess that means Tommy is not part of the new brain trust or he'd be in Florida.
2005-11-20 09:49:05
433.   dzzrtRatt
Colletti's managerial search is starting to remind me of the guest stars on the old Bob Hope Christmas specials: Has-beens and never was's.

The Dodgers' next manager might turn out to be Bert Convy, Pearl Bailey or Lola Falana.

2005-11-20 09:55:23
434.   D4P
And the "Superstars" competitions of the late 70s and early 80s.
2005-11-20 10:20:42
435.   Bob Timmermann
Bert Convy did play minor league ball for the Phillies organization.

I think right now, he runs as fast as Jason Phillips.

2005-11-20 12:04:20
436.   A Slo
What's the source of the Tony Muser talk? Please tell me it is just the wild imaginations and humor of the DT crowd??? PLEASE???
2005-11-20 12:32:36
437.   King of the Hobos
Tim Brown's article in the Times. He just says at the end that they could be interested in him (and 2 or 3 other guys), not that they are.
2005-11-20 14:44:38
438.   natepurcell
from the sun sentinel

"The Texas Rangers are among the teams with whom the Marlins have discussed such a deal, but according to a league source familiar with the talks, nothing is imminent. Other clubs open to a Lowell-Beckett package are the Red Sox and Tigers. The Angels, Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Pirates and Giants could enter the bidding as well."

2005-11-20 14:48:44
439.   natepurcell
joel guzman update!!!

from the site. updated stats fron 11-20.

Guzman is destroying the DWL. which is great news. other news, his K rate is way down from his season averages.

73AB 12R 25H 6doubles 1triple 3hr 15rbi 10bb 13k


BB/PA: 12.04%
K/PA: 15.66%

2005-11-20 14:51:33
440.   D4P
No doubt Colletti's working on a Lowell4Guzman blockbuster as we speak.

BTW: Why did Lowell suck so bad last year?

2005-11-20 15:44:23
441.   Uncle Miltie
Clippers win again, beating a solid team (the Warriors). 8-2.

Good news on Guzman, especially the walks. How about Brazoban and Aybar?

2005-11-20 15:54:25
442.   King of the Hobos
Brazoban has pitched 12.1 innings, 0.73 ERA, 13 strikeouts, 3 walks, and 9 saves. Could he be back?

Aybar is struggling, .143/.182/.238 in 63 ABs. 3 BBs, 12 Ks, 3 2Bs, and 1 Hr. Not sure what to make of it

2005-11-20 15:57:04
443.   D4P
JUST another 3 walks for Aybar...:(
2005-11-20 15:57:33
444.   natepurcell
i hope brazobans success is because he has refined that change up and made it gagne like. it had potential from what i saw last year.
2005-11-20 16:12:56
445.   dzzrtRatt
A guy named Paul White found Tony Muser to be such an absurd manager, he wrote the following:

There's no one "money quote," but this will do: "Why is Tony Muser so simple? Why is he so blind to modern baseball practice and strategy? Why does he play favorites with some undeserving players and banish others to his doghouse? Why all the tough talk about tequila and 'live grenades' and 'combat'? And, most importantly, why do the answers to these questions all add up to a very bad major league baseball manager?"

2005-11-20 16:15:21
446.   D4P
Why does he play favorites with some undeserving players and banish others to his doghouse?

I thought the Dodgers just got rid of that guy...

2005-11-20 18:27:30
447.   King of the Hobos
About Brazoban...a poster over at lives in the DR and tries to attend all of the home Licey games. I've found him (gilmiguel55) to be well versed in the happenings in the DR, and fairly reliable. What he's said about Brazoban:

"He has been working on another pitch, something like either a slider or a cutter and he has been extremely susccessful with it, i have seen him strikeout batter just on that pitch, different from last year in wich he wanted to simply blow the opposition away, 1-1 0.73 era and 9 saves, 13k in 12.1ip...The other day i sat behind home plate, where all the scouts sit with their radar guns, he was constantly 96mph, slower than last year but with more control and mixing his pitches better."

I have no reason not believe him, but it is and you never know. Go to the following thread to ask him something about the DR:

2005-11-20 20:25:32
448.   King of the Hobos
With it being Sunday and thus a complete abandonment of Dodger Thoughts, we weren't able to talk about TJ Simers' new story. Let's just say he agreed with us

"If Colletti is looking for a great leader, someone who has won and knows how to win the last game, I'm sure he's just talking to Fregosi to find out if Fregosi knows anyone who might meet those qualifications."

2005-11-20 20:34:39
449.   D4P
We also haven't gotten to talk about the LA Kobes. Through 3 quarters tonight, Kobe has taken 26 shots, while Odom has taken 1.
2005-11-20 20:49:40
450.   Uncle Miltie
Kobe is having a great shooting night, but he's not getting his teammates involved. 33 shots for Kobe, 3 for Odom. Is this a joke? It's nice that he's making a lot of them, but late in the game when he'll be forced to pass the ball, one of his cold teammates is going to have a tough time scoring. When was the last time a player averaged 30 shot attempts per game?
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-11-20 20:55:29
451.   Bob Timmermann
Wilt Chamberlain averaged over 30 field goal attempts per game in his first four seasons. In 1961-62, he averaged 39.5 shots per game.

He also averaged 50.4 points per game.

2005-11-20 20:58:34
452.   Uncle Miltie
451- Wilt was the guy I had in mind (because he averaged a ton of points). I think McGrady and Jordan averaged close to 25 shots a game a couple seasons.
2005-11-20 21:01:03
453.   Uncle Miltie
Kobe tries to be the hero, Lakers lose. His teammates were playing cold.
2005-11-20 21:01:34
454.   Bob Timmermann
Jordan was at 29.1 shots/game in 1986. Iverson was at 27.4 in 2002.
2005-11-20 22:08:45
455.   King of the Hobos
"Colletti said he met for four hours with vice presidents Kim Ng and Roy Smith and scouting director Logan White, whittling down a list of manager candidates and exchanging ideas on the signing of free agents. That includes Dodger free agents Jeff Weaver, Olmedo Saenz and Elmer Dessens,"

He has yet to ask permission from any other teams. This does help to prove my theory that Colletti is GM in name only to serve as the guy who talks, and we really have a super 4-headed GM

2005-11-20 23:16:46
456.   LAT
Went to the Laker game tonight. So does Kobe shoot so much becasue nobody else can or does nobody else shot because Kobe does so much. Either way, the Lakers must be one of the most unbalanced team in recent history.

The person who invited us tonight had valet parking at $50 a pop. How long before Frank does the same further congesting the egress in and out of DS for the rest of us plebs?

2005-11-20 23:19:10
457.   fanerman
455 - A 4-headed GM wouldn't be bad. Ng, Smith, White, and Colletti could make a nice roundtable.
2005-11-20 23:22:50
458.   Bob Timmermann
Valet parking was one of the questions the Dodgers marketing people surveyed me about.
2005-11-20 23:27:28
459.   natepurcell
i was thinking about that too hobos.

i really dont think colletti is running the show. hes just the PR part of the the GM group since hes good with the media.

2005-11-20 23:29:54
460.   natepurcell
we really need a name for the group. someone who is creative come up with a creative group name for the colletti, ng, smith and white.
2005-11-20 23:31:44
461.   LAT
Bob, I assume that if they had valet parking they would need a dedicated lane in and out of the stadium. That lane would reduce the number of available lanes making already bad traffic worse. I would think they would have to charge at least $25. Did the survey include a cost component? Hard to answer the question without knowing the price.

I am embaressed to say at $25, I would do it. Already paying $10. It would allow me to get there on time, stay to the end and save me 30-60 mins on the way out. That's worth $15. I have to guess it will be more like $40-$50.

2005-11-20 23:37:26
462.   Uncle Miltie
The Yes (Wo)men

LAT- how was the caviar, wine, and cheese? More importantly, did you see any celebrities?

2005-11-20 23:54:07
463.   LAT
Lots of good looking women. Even the mediocre women look better at a Laker game. No caviar or wine but a $8.50 taco and $7 beer.

Jack and Diane were there. (Not as in John Melencamp's song) Larry David. Jessie Jackson. Some R&B woman named Cierra (sp?) with the biggest bodyguard you ever saw. Saw Diane Cannon, Jessie Jackson and Larry David in the valet line. Diane Canon close up. . .very scary stuff. Its time for her to stop pretending to be in her 40s. Larry David was pollite to the valet guys (for whatever that's wort). And Jessie Jackson is in a celeb league of his own. Lots of people (read black women) coming up to him to saw hi or tell him how much they admire him. He had more cache then any of them.

2005-11-20 23:56:45
464.   Bob Timmermann
I was asked if I would be willing to pay more if there were valet parking or if it would make me more likely to come to a game.

It wouldn't. I don't live far from the stadium and I generally get home pretty quickly anyway.

I have no idea how valet parking at Dodger Stadium would work because or the traffic flow. They almost would have to build a dedicated lane. Sort of like the one Homer used when he was a Stonecutter.

2005-11-21 00:00:41
465.   LAT
Some show called Scare Tatics on SciFi hosted by the future Mrs. Drew McCourt. She is a bad host and to me she is nothing to look at. If I was some 22-23 year old guy with bank and good looks I wouldn't waste my time on her. I'd be at a Laker game pretending to be one of the Maloof brothers.
2005-11-21 00:02:44
466.   Uncle Miltie
The Lakers need to rename their games. Instead of calling them a sporting event, they should call it a rich people/celebrity gathering. They wine, they dine, they socialize, they leave. This is not a shot a Lakers fan, just most of the people who attend the games.
2005-11-21 00:06:03
467.   dzzrtRatt
group name for the colletti, ng, smith and white

How about Grand Frank Railroad?

Ah, it's late.

2005-11-21 00:36:30
468.   oldbear
The Lakers lost but the crowd did get to see Andrew Bynum play. Isnt he only 17? Not sure what Kupchak saw in him other than his size. He's not very athletic and has limited basketball skills.

Sasha would have trouble starting on most top 25 NCAA teams. The Spurs can pull guys like Tony Parker, Ginobilli, Udrih... and the Lakers end up with Sasha.

Brian Cook- why did they renew his contract for 07? He's like a 10th man stiff. He can shoot, but cant do much else. One of the most unathletic players in the NBA.

I cant think of the last Laker draft pick to do be decent. Maybe Kareem Rush? He's doing alright for the bobcats.

Lakers need Jerry West back. Or they need to buy another superstar.

I have a feeling though that Kobe Bryant is having more fun now than when they were winning. The guy already has rings. Now he just wants to own his own team, which he pretty much more or less does.

Phil's back to collect a pay check. how the lakers have fallen.

2005-11-21 06:18:26
469.   Penarol1916
I remember reading on some Georgetown boards when the Hoyas were recruiting Bynum that a lot of fans who had seen him play his high school games in New Jersey did not want Georgetown to get him. They said he was mediocre in a league where he was the only player over 6-8 and didn't even make all-conference in a pretty poor conference. Said that the guy had no skills to go along with no effort. Of course, that could be pre-emptive sour grapes since they might have thought that Georgetown didn't have a chance at signing him.
2005-11-21 07:11:23
470.   King of the Hobos
The Mariners are close to signing Jojima supposedly. I'm thinking this won't have much of an effect of the FA market, except it might limit the number of Molina's and Hernandez's suitors. Dodgers shouldn't be affected

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