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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Unhappy Thanksgiving, Hee Seop
2005-11-21 17:23
by Jon Weisman

Buried at the bottom of this Associated Press story, warning us to be patient while new Dodger general manager Ned Colletti searches for his first manager, is this tidbit:

Colletti mentioned first base, third base and the outfield as areas of need. He also said he hasn't been given a set figure concerning the team's payroll.

"I've conversed with Frank and Jamie about what I think we need, who I think we need," he said, referring to Dodgers owners Frank and Jamie McCourt. "I haven't been told to stop or slow down."

Without nominating Hee Seop Choi for sainthood, is it possible Colletti mentioned first base as an area of need but not the starting pitching? Whatever you might think of Choi, is there reason to think D.J. Houlton is superior? Or is it that the minor league pitchers like Chad Billingsley are closer to being ready than the minor league infielders?

Or did something just get lost in this game of telephone?

Comments (191)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-21 17:30:49
1.   Bob Timmermann
I think Eric Karros is tanned, ready, and rested. Comeback time!
2005-11-21 17:32:26
2.   fanerman
2005-11-21 17:35:09
3.   natepurcell
i guess gammons is now reporting that a west coast team is in serious trade talks for delgado- either seattle, LAD, or LAA.
2005-11-21 17:35:17
4.   Mark
"He also said he hasn't been given a set figure concerning the team's payroll."

Almost always, in large corporations, this translates into a lower figure than what you'd expect. People and companies with money to spend love to brag about how much they have available.

2005-11-21 17:35:29
5.   molokai
I have no doubt that we will have a different 1st baseman then Choi. I'm only curious about which GM will be interested in him. He seems to be a perfect fit for the Twins which need a LH slug DH but I can't imagine a team that released David Ortiz giving Choi a chance.
2005-11-21 17:37:33
6.   fanerman
Maybe Boston can pick Choi up. They need a 1st baseman right?
2005-11-21 17:40:50
7.   Mark
Choi for Lowell straight up? That's the perfect Bizarro-Dodgers transaction.
2005-11-21 17:41:10
8.   molokai
Seattle has Sexson and Delgado went to the NL because he hates to DH so that doesn't seem to match.
If Florida was smart they would trade him to the Angels for Kotchman and Kendrick but that seems to rich for a salary dump. Then again you have the DH issue.
I can't imagine the Dodgers picking up his contract but I sure wouldn't mind having Delgado in the lineup. Send them back Choi.
2005-11-21 17:42:15
9.   LAT
"I am committed to winning right now because that's what the great fans of LA deserve" but I'm not going to tell my GM how much he has to spend to get there.

This is what I'm talking about. Does anyone seriously believe Ned and Frank have not dicussed the budget at some point. If Ned never asked the question, we are indeed in very big trouble.

2005-11-21 17:46:03
10.   trainwreck
ESPN article says Red Sox are getting money back from Marlins so I really like the trade for the Red Sox. I would also love to get Delgado. He has been a player I have liked for years. He is pricey but he produces. He had a monster season in a pitcher's park this past season/
2005-11-21 17:46:30
11.   dzzrtRatt
I just have this feeling that between Colletti and McCourt, one of them is going to have a problem paying millions to a guy who won't stand up during the national anthem. It'll be seen as a character flaw.
2005-11-21 17:47:16
12.   molokai
No GM worth his salt should divulge how much he has to work with. I'm sure McCourt and Ned know exactly what they need to know about payroll. The statement "the payroll will be enough to make us competitive" is the only statement that needs to be made on the matter. JMO
2005-11-21 17:47:56
13.   bigcpa
Delgado owed:
$13.5M in 2006
$14.4M in 2007
$16M in 2008
$12M team option in 2009 that can vest

His LHP splits have eroded considerably:
2003 .284/.395/.475
2005 .234/.308/.461

Even if Delgado could play 3b I wouldn't want to inherit that contract.

2005-11-21 17:48:04
14.   natepurcell
im kind of bummed. i really wanted beckett. but i really didnt want to give up guzman or billingsley.
2005-11-21 17:50:09
15.   molokai
I'll join him if it will help. I've always disliked the whole National Anthem thing before EVERY sporting event in the 1st place. I have major character flaws.
2005-11-21 17:51:03
16.   Humma Kavula
Does he sit for the anthem? I thought he sat for God Bless America.
2005-11-21 17:52:34
17.   trainwreck
He was 11th in VORP this season in that terrible stadium. That makes me not care about his LHP splits because it means he must destroy RHPs and there are more of those.
2005-11-21 17:52:59
18.   dzzrtRatt
16 you're correct.
2005-11-21 17:53:34
19.   trainwreck
Does he even still protest? I only heard about it when the war first started. I have not heard about it since.
2005-11-21 17:54:35
20.   molokai
If Boston got back money in the Lowell deal I expect whoever gets Delgado will get some mullah to cover some of his contract.

Considering he had 141 ab's against LHP I'm not to concerned. I'll take the 380 at bats where he slugged over 600 and posted an ops over 1000. Sure it is alot of money. It isn't my money.

2005-11-21 17:54:51
21.   trainwreck
I am not going to lie I really do not like God Bless America. It is a baseball game, it should be Take Me Out to the Ball Game.
2005-11-21 17:55:30
22.   dzzrtRatt
I get the feeling that the Dodgers were a little slow on the uptake w/respect to the Marlins' fire sale. That said, the Fish emphasis on Ramirez suggests it would've surely taken Guzman, and at that, only if they'd been convinced he'd be able to stay at short.

As Aristotle once said, "sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make."

2005-11-21 17:56:11
23.   molokai
Evidently, neither did Colletti:)
2005-11-21 17:57:56
24.   Humma Kavula
21 Plus, God Bless America is a bad song. Without even getting into the politics of the song, which I find reprehensible, it's poorly written. Really, Irving, was "foam" the best rhyme you could come up with for "home?" Drives me nuts. "To the oceans, white with foam." Yeah, white is the color I think of when I think of the oceans.

I heard -- don't know if it's true -- that when Woody Guthrie first heard God Bless America, he got so pissed off that he wrote "This Land Is Your Land."

2005-11-21 17:58:43
25.   fanerman
So if the Marlins already have Ramirez, does that mean they won't want JtD anymore since they already have an SS?

Or is it like Homer explaining the ivory dealer to Lisa in the Stampy the elephant episode. "Lisa, a guy who's got lots of ivory is less likely to hurt Stampy than a guy whose ivory supplies are low."

2005-11-21 17:59:36
26.   das411
5 et al - Regarding the Cult of Big Papi, wasn't the entire reason he ended up with the Sox becuse he was going into a walk year and MIN had LeCroy and Kielty lined up to slot in behind him?

The conventional wisdom these days seems to be that the Twins had no idea what they were doing when they let him go, but I seem to remember they were pretty sure that David Ortiz would become something close to DAVID ORTIZ and they would have no way to afford him once that happened.

Of course, then Kielty was traded for Jayson Stark's favorite man-crush and for some reason Ortiz's numbers got better when he started hitting in front of Manny Ramirez instead of Torii Hunter...

Does anybody else remember this? Or am I the only person whose memory banks have yet to be purged, a la Joe Lieberman?

2005-11-21 18:00:13
27.   bigcpa
From Rosenthal:
"The Dodgers and Marlins also exchanged names... but Ramirez is a more advanced prospect than the Dodgers' Joel Guzman."

Ramirez is 11 months older than Guzman and has 140 more minor league ab's. He put up .271/.335/.385 with 26 steals (13 CS) for AA Portland. I'd prefer Blalock to this guy let alone Guzman.

2005-11-21 18:01:45
28.   natepurcell
ramirez is a more advanced prospect than guzman!?!??!


2005-11-21 18:05:54
29.   Sam DC
I'm a simple soul.

I certainly don't understand baseball transactions anymore.

How could the [incredibly profitable] Red Sox get cash back in a [salary dump] deal where a basic rationale is that the Marlins give up young huge-updside pitcher on the condition that the receiving team accepts their coming off a horrible year albatross-contract third baseman.

I know it can be rationalized -- for example, the Green trade looks kind of like this (except the salary dumper sending cash in the Green trade was the huge market money team, not the smaller poorer one) -- but I really don't get it. I can't believe the Marlins couldn't hang tough and dump the whole contract.

2005-11-21 18:06:37
30.   Zak
Why isn't anyone talking about a Blaylock for Broxton + another pitching prospect (not Billingsley)? That fills a huge hole for us for a long time with a young player with very good upside. And Texas is desperate for pitching, especially MLB ready pitching, which Broxton may be, or close at least.
2005-11-21 18:06:37
31.   molokai
That is the story I've heard. I can sing or listen to "this land is your land" and feel chest tugs. I hear "God bless America" and I feel nausea and want to sit down.
2005-11-21 18:06:43
32.   dzzrtRatt
24 The blue parts are in international waters, I guess.
2005-11-21 18:07:19
33.   natepurcell
i really cant believe that if guzman was offered, the marlins didnt take him.

more likely, he wasnt offered, just talked about.

2005-11-21 18:10:07
34.   dzzrtRatt
All that said (I'm partial to the "Star Spangled Banner" because its melody came from an old drinking chanty), my point was that McCourt seems like the kind of guy who values those little demonstrations of patriotism from players. I guess we'll see.
2005-11-21 18:10:12
35.   scareduck
16 - if it weren't for the abysmally strong peer pressure, I'd sit for "God Bless America". Dammit, it's not the national anthem. I do NOT have to have my head uncovered, right hand over heart, while singing the damn thing.

26 - the way I remember it is that the Twins couldn't afford to wait around another year. He was about to get really expensive, far more than they could afford on what was essentially a rich club's gamble. Imagine the scenario if McCourt had bought the team a year earlier, Beltre's last arbitration year were 2003 instead of 2004, and the M's took a flyer on him. They'd look awfully smart going into 2005.

2005-11-21 18:10:31
36.   molokai
Because Blalock has stagnated and his numbers have gone down each of the last 3 years. It is possible he peaked early and has not made adjustments. Take into consideration he's hitting in the AL equivelent to Coors and his numbers aren't impressive.
While I was all over Beckett, I'd rather have LaRoche then Blalock. His OPS away from Arlington was a putrid 611.
2005-11-21 18:12:11
37.   trainwreck
Hanley Ramirez is the perfect example of a tools guy that scouts love but really has no stats at all. Players of course like him do succeed, but I think he will be like Orlando Cabrera of this past year.
2005-11-21 18:14:41
38.   molokai
I had to admit I had no idea that Blalock had become such a cipher until I checked his numbers.

It will be interesting to see how Hanly does. Scouts are ga ga about his talent but the talent never translated into production. As nate said his numbers were no better then a player like Hu who wouldn't even make our top 15 list but his talent still makes him the number one position prospect on the RedSox. I'd rather have Pedroia.

2005-11-21 18:25:08
39.   Bob Timmermann
[begin political diatribe]

The McCourts, I believe, are Democrats or at least have donated to Democratic candidates in Massachusetts in the past.

Being Democrats, they are, by definition given by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, not patriotic.

[/end political diatribe]

In reality, I think the McCourts, like a lot of people of means, support which ever political party will help them out the most and I doubt ideology has much to do with it.

So, now on to religion.

No, not controversial enough.

Hee-Seop Choi's bat speed. That's controversy!

2005-11-21 18:28:37
40.   Sam DC
Uh, uh, Bob -- Hee-Seop's defense. Toss that one into the room and duck.
2005-11-21 18:29:05
41.   Sam DC
"uh, uh" -- a phrase that has no clear meaning when written.
2005-11-21 18:40:51
42.   Bob Timmermann
In happier news, my license plates have arrived.

I have one that a pirate (old-timey, not Pittsburgh type or Somali type). The letters on it are RRR.

2005-11-21 18:41:46
43.   bigcpa
I have a Miss Cleo prediction. We are soooo getting Bill Mueller. You get the SF/Colletti connection, the veteran presence, the ring, the McCourt Boston envy.
2005-11-21 18:42:30
44.   CanuckDodger
38 -- Chin-Lung Hu definitely makes our Top 15 prospect list (I rank him #12 personally), and Ramirez might even rank as our #1 if we had him and Baseball America were doing the ranking. Jim Callis of Baseball America already ranked Ramirez over Billingsley and Guzman as a prospect likely to make an impact in 2007. The ease with which people around here dismiss tools and discout projected FUTURE performance based on the those tools is unfortunate. At the start of this year, the statheads (on other boards) were scoffing at Jeff Francouer too.
2005-11-21 18:44:19
45.   dzzrtRatt
In reality, I think the McCourts, like a lot of people of means, support which ever political party will help them out the most and I doubt ideology has much to do with it.

Right. But that's exactly why I could see McCourt going for the cheap symbolism w/regard to Delgado--in the same way Bill Clinton and Gray Davis tried to distance themselves from the ACLU by going overboard on "law and order" issues.

2005-11-21 18:46:25
46.   Sam DC
42 Pirate, or schoolteacher?
2005-11-21 18:47:20
47.   dzzrtRatt
43 Would Mueller be so bad, as a stopgap?
2005-11-21 18:49:04
48.   Bob Timmermann
Principal Skinner: So what's new at 1 School Board Plaza?
Superintendent Chalmers: We're getting rid of the geography requirement. The children weren't testing well.
Skinner: So back to the three Rs!
Chalmers: Two Rs come September.
2005-11-21 18:50:31
49.   bigcpa
47 He'd be ok so long as he's not the "run producer" we're waiting for. I'd prefer Giles/Mueller to Werth/Nomar. Mueller can hang pretty well vs LHP too.
2005-11-21 18:51:07
50.   scareduck
Let us back up.

Everyone assumes that Hee Seop Choi is the object of this trade, that it heaps scorn upon him. It may, but I also wonder whether "proven veteran" Jim Thome might be available at a significant discount. I'm not specifying him as a likely candidate, only as one of many, simply because it seems likely that 1B is one of the easier positions to fill this offseason, and that may be driving Colletti's thinking.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-21 18:52:07
51.   scareduck
42 - did you see the new FedEx commercials with the pirate? Pretty funny.
2005-11-21 18:53:54
52.   D4P
Let us back up even further, to one of Jon's key points: regardless of whether the first baseman is Choi or an "upgrade," why is 1B identified as an area of need, while starting pitching is NOT identified as such?
2005-11-21 18:58:08
53.   Sam DC
50 I don't follow. I thought Jon, and others, were wondering if 1B really is a position that needs filling, easy or no, given the other more gaping holes, like SP. I doubt anyone would argue that better 1B options may be available than Choi, whether they stand for the National Anthem or not, and it may make sense to improve if a good option presents itself. But it jars to start a list of "areas of need" with first base, and leave off pitching altogether, if that's what the article means, and if it's accurate.
2005-11-21 18:59:01
54.   Sam DC
I see it took me 5 extra minutes to write out what D4P said in half as many words.
2005-11-21 19:03:39
55.   dzzrtRatt
52 Just as an educated guess, because the Ned Colletti 4 thinks the rookie pitchers are readier to compete for slots in the rotation in '06? That none of the prospects for corner positions look ready for the majors yet? Maybe they're comfortable with Penny/Lowe/Perez and two others drawn from Houlton, Billingsley, Jackson, Orenduff, Broxton, Diaz, Miller...
2005-11-21 19:04:23
56.   scareduck
52 - because Colletti has no options for starting pitching that he can stomach? Again, my point is to try and view this thing through his eyes.
2005-11-21 19:04:52
57.   scareduck
55 - what he said.
2005-11-21 19:20:27
58.   natepurcell
holy crap my vikings scored a touchdown.... another INT return for a td.


2005-11-21 19:24:15
59.   natepurcell
and in minnesota viking fashion, we give it right back.
2005-11-21 19:28:49
60.   das411
And Terrell Owens actually thinks his team would be better off with Favre at QB?

Wow, that dude IS crazy!

2005-11-21 19:30:43
61.   bigcpa
I would rank our areas of need this way:
LF, 3B, #1/2 starter

That is to say if we're going to bump one of the young guns from the rotation it better not be to make room for #4/5 guys like Paul Byrd or Kenny Rogers. And we've established that Morris is essentially Weaver. Get Burnett or Millwood or stand pat.

2005-11-21 19:41:42
62.   Sam DC
The Beckett article on has been updated and now says that the Sox will take on Lowell's entire contract.
2005-11-21 20:01:41
63.   King of the Hobos
The Mariners have officially signed Johjima, and that appears to be the official spelling now (as that is how it's spelled in the press release)
2005-11-21 20:03:44
64.   Uncle Miltie

Just kidding. I agree with you. It's not meant to be played at a baseball game, and besides that, I don't even like the song.

2005-11-21 20:04:14
65.   willhite
Hacksaw mentioned earlier tonight that another name in the Dodger manager sweepstakes might be Art Howe. Haven't seen his name mentioned anywhere else, but I can hardly contain my excitement at the thought of the "Great Communicator" becoming the next leader of our team.

Maybe we could have McCourt change the name to the Retros, since it is looking more and more obvious that whomever they hire is going to be a retread.

2005-11-21 20:05:35
66.   dzzrtRatt
So goes another excellent pitcher to the American League. Seems to be an unbalanced situation these days.
2005-11-21 20:08:13
67.   King of the Hobos
And after he signs a crazy extension, he'll have a mediocre season, and head right back to the NL to reclaim his former glory

Or he'll tuly break out, destroying everyone and everything in his path

2005-11-21 20:11:25
68.   molokai
Time will tell if the scouts are right. The list that Jim Callis provided is who he feels will have a quicker impact in a given year not who he feels is a better long term prospect. He made that clear when he presented the list in Arizona.
No one is questioning Hanley's athletic skills but at some point the skills must turn into production. Hanley is doing fine but he's not producing at the level of a number one prospect. Franceour was knocking the snot out of the ball, the only question with him was his plate discipline. Seems like your reaching by bringing him into the conversation. I could just as easily bring up Rueben Rivera who scouts were ga ga over for years with nothing to show for it.
2005-11-21 20:16:35
69.   molokai
Back to the original post, it is hard to believe that Ned didn't mention pitching as an area for concern but again if your a GM why tip your hand just so a reporter gets a story. I would rather he just said that they have reviewed the roster and the prospects and he and his think tank will spend this winter filling the areas they feel they need to upgrade to be competitive in 2006.
2005-11-21 20:18:59
70.   dzzrtRatt
Is Royster out of the running? I'm beginning to think this manager agony needs to just stop. Royster would be fine. He's been working in the organization for a few years. He's been in the big leagues. He's respected. Baseball manager is an assymetrical job--a sack with three completely different gigs stuffed inside.

-- He's the PR spokesman for the team on a day to day basis. Royster can do that. Anyone who can put two baseball cliches together can do that.

-- He's the soother of egos and motivator of men. He can do that--better than the old farts Colletti's mentioned so far, who seem to have a Lasorda-like tendency to punish youth. I like it that Royster's not jaded, not burned out, and is still young enough to remember what it was like to be 22.

Finally, a manager's got to be smart when it comes to the late-inning maneuvers. I have no idea if Royster's better or worse than anyone else--but I have never heard of a baseball organization hiring a manager for this reason. It usually comes as a nasty surprise when it turns out, hey, guess what, we got us an idiot for a manager. Grady Little, Dusty Baker. On this score, I say innocent until proven guilty.

Until Colletti hires a manager, a lot of other more important decisions are stuck. Pitching coach, hitting coach, and also the comfort level of FAs and current veterans.

Colletti seems to be on a campaign to raise the stock of a bunch of his a-hole buddies in baseball to increase the chances that some other team will hire them. It's getting so boring. Royster's the Occam's Razor choice for manager. Colletti should just do it, get it over with, and get the offseason started.

2005-11-21 20:20:20
71.   natepurcell
its a slobberknocker up in green way! vikes tie it up!!
2005-11-21 20:22:27
72.   alex 7
I would buy that maybe he's just not tipping his hand except for him mentioning 3B and the OF as positions that need upgrading.

I can only hope that the McCourt's financial restraints make keeping Choi around the right move this off-season and that since we only have enough $ for one big signing, it would be an OFer. I can't imagine the owners or the GMs wanting to get rid of two cheap productive players in Choi and Saenz by bringing in one expensive 1B.

2005-11-21 20:25:41
73.   Bob Timmermann
I firmly opposed to the "Johjima" spelling. Just because it isn't what I'm used to.
2005-11-21 20:25:49
74.   Uncle Miltie
I'd have no problem with Royster. Colletti would though, because he's not a "veteran manager". Arte Howe is a terrible manager. Fregosi is also a pretty lousy choice.
2005-11-21 20:25:54
75.   D4P
I can't imagine the owners or the GMs wanting to get rid of two cheap productive players in Choi and Saenz by bringing in one expensive 1B.

My concern is that they think bringing in big names is the way to earn popularity with the fans. If you fail with cheap no-names, you get criticized for not spending any money. If you fail with expensive big-names, at least it looks like you tried.

2005-11-21 20:26:42
76.   King of the Hobos
The part before what Jon posted indicates FAs. Maybe Colletti isn't interested in the FA pitching, which seems wise. I wonder if he has some trade ideas up his sleeve...
2005-11-21 20:34:15
77.   Vishal
58/59 - go pack! :)
2005-11-21 20:40:55
78.   Vishal
uncle miltie - re: carl crawford's D from the last thread...

from baseball prospectus' DT card, it says that crawford had a rate2 of 96 last year in left field, which brings his career average to 101. his high is 106.

he has 2.2 fielding win shares according to hardball times, which puts him in the middle of the pack, near such luminaries as miguel cabrera and gary sheffield.

maybe 2005 was a down year or something, and while i'm willing to believe he can be consistently above average, he doesn't figure to me to be an "elite" defender.

2005-11-21 20:43:38
79.   trainwreck
Aww Art Howe my old buddy from the A's. A man of no words and no actions. I think Billy broke his spirit down to the point where he just stopped caring. Yet he is so loveable because of it.
2005-11-21 20:44:54
80.   dzzrtRatt
74 The problem, as I'm sure Colletti is discovering, is that every available "veteran manager" not disqualified by age is unemployed for a reason.

By all means, if Colletti could bring us Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa or Joe Torre, that would be interesting. But Art Howe, Tony Muser and Jim Fregosi? Blech.

2005-11-21 20:46:25
81.   Vishal
re: "god bless america". i totally agree with you guys. and not only is it a terribly written song, i also feel like it's trying to suggest that god should bless america [at the exclusion of everybody else, because nobody else in the world matters at all]. i'm sure it doesn't literally mean that, but i feel like it has that sort of sensibility, and even as a patriotic american, that mentality bothers me.
2005-11-21 20:50:49
82.   D4P
I think you are justified in feeling that way. I've seen a few bumper stickers lately that say things along the lines of "God bless the entire world." If people don't literally mean "God bless the USA at the exclusion of everybody else," then they shouldn't say "God bless the USA" while not including everybody else in the blessing.
2005-11-21 20:53:09
83.   Bob Timmermann
While I like the fact that I have license plates on my new car, I think my putting a bumper sticker on it that says "Throw garbage at me if you like Frank McCourt" was a miscalculation.
2005-11-21 20:56:37
84.   Uncle Miltie
78- the info I gave is from the book. They called him "a top notch defender". It's really hard to measure defense statisically. I watched him play a fair amount this is like always he looked excellent. It's possible, that for some reason he had a down year. Coming into this year, scouts and stat heads alike agreed that Crawford is an outstanding defender.
2005-11-21 21:01:22
85.   MikeB
Frank & Jaimie McCourt
Camille Johnston
Ned Colletti
Jim Fregosi

Sounds like the guest cast for a bad episode of Fantasy Island.

2005-11-21 21:03:18
86.   stubbs
Lets say we took on Beckett and Lowell as the surprise team.

Thougths on this Lineup:

2-LF Cruz
4-2B Kent
5-SS Nomar
6-1B Choi
7-3B Lowell
8-C Dioner
When Izturis comes back, whoever isnt performing gets bumped. I assume Lowell can play 1B and Nomar can play 3b giving flexibilty. Pretty good team with our infield defense being a huge weakness till Izzy returns.

2005-11-21 21:10:33
87.   Andrew Shimmin
What really bugs me is when the Brits say, "G-d save the queen." What, she's the only one who should be saved? Poor people aren't as worthy$ of saving as the queen?

Or when Muslims say that Mohammad is Allah's prophet. Aren't we all equally prophetic?

Or when I sneeze, and people say, "G-d bless you." That really bugs me, because there are other people who sneeze. Why can't they say, "G-d bless all sneezers, every one."?

2005-11-21 21:10:58
88.   regfairfield
86 The only issue I see here is that you seem to be generating money from nothing.

Lowell: 8 million
Beckett: 3 million
Cruz: 3 million
Bradley: 5 million
Nomar: ~6 million

Going by the side bar, that brings the payroll up to 95 million. Not going to happen.

2005-11-21 21:11:51
89.   regfairfield
Take Cruz out of that, forgot Jon already factored him in. Puts the payroll at 92 million.
2005-11-21 21:11:52
90.   dzzrtRatt
83 Frank McCourt never saw a car he didn't want to park.
2005-11-21 21:12:53
91.   stubbs
88-Getting rid of Odalis could make this a reality no?
2005-11-21 21:13:56
92.   Bob Timmermann
Is this part of a PR campaign to get your name out there? Are you planning a concert or book tour?
2005-11-21 21:18:14
93.   Andrew Shimmin
I wish. I've just decided that I'm ready to stop posting under somebody else's name. I'd probably have been better served posting that first one using bokonon42, and then switching, but so it goes.
2005-11-21 21:21:02
94.   regfairfield
91 How do you propose we do this?
2005-11-21 21:22:04
95.   Steve
87 -- The end of an era. But possibly a new candidate for manager!
2005-11-21 21:25:20
96.   dzzrtRatt

Re: God save the Queen. Traditionally, the crowned head was synonymous with, and the embodiment of, the state and its people. The expression's original meaning was more like "God save England." It took the Sex Pistols to make it personal.

Re: Sneezing. We request God's blessing for sneezers because, centuries ago, Pope Gregory instructed all good Catholics to pray constantly to ward off the Plague. A sneeze was immediately to be followed by a blessing, in hopes that God would save the sneezer, as well the sneezees, from a horrible death.

Re: Allah. Well, that's the problem isn't it? When one takes one's own religion too literally, one tends to dehumanize non-believers. I'm not trying to be PC and equate Al-Queda with fundamentalist Christians, but any religion can be taken to a point where the exclusion of unbelievers becomes a source for bigotry.

2005-11-21 21:27:04
97.   Bob Timmermann
The phrases "God Bless America" "God Save the Queen" and "God bless you" (after a sneeze) all do imply that the country or person being blessed is deserving of greater consideration from God than others.

Although not in a mean-spirited way most likely.

I will refer further questions about this to a synod of bishops that I have summoned to my apartment next week.

2005-11-21 21:28:11
98.   Andrew Shimmin
95- If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve. . .

A little tip for pseudonym-seekers: if you're going to steal one from a book, pick a book by a dead author. Living writers can fall off the cliffs of their own sanctimony, and, when they live long enough, often do.

2005-11-21 21:30:22
99.   Matt Welch
Dodger first basemen last year hit .266/.341/.487, with 31 HRs, 104 RBI, and 62 walks. Compared with the rest of the league, Dodger 1B production was 5th in homers, 6th in OPS, 6th in total bases, 6th in slugging, 6th in RBIs. And the salary of their principle two first basemen was $1 million combined. Basically they got Philadelphia's production for 1/14th the price.
2005-11-21 21:32:54
100.   Steve
If we're going to get good production, we might as well pay for it. They make a lot of money, but they spend a lot of money.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-21 21:34:16
101.   regfairfield
If McCourt cuts the payroll to 75 million, and Colletti spends the money on a first baseman, where would that rank on the list of boneheaded moves the Dodgers have made?
2005-11-21 21:35:19
102.   Andrew Shimmin
I wasn't clear. Yes, each of those instances of calling on G-d to bless someone, or some country, is exclusive. That's the point. Everybody does it. One should hope that, were there a G-d, he'd be able to apportion his blessings properly, and not be swayed by the squalid pleadings of His subjects. What's the deity/human equivalent of peer-pressure?
2005-11-21 21:37:00
103.   Steve
What's the deity/human equivalent of peer-pressure?

Insert Billy Beane/Art Howe joke ___________

2005-11-21 21:37:23
104.   natepurcell
im still made the sox got beckett so cheaply.
2005-11-21 21:37:52
105.   natepurcell
but the vikings trumphs that, so overall, im more happy then mad right now.
2005-11-21 21:41:01
106.   dzzrtRatt
104 I don't think anyone knew you were 'made,' Nate. We'll treat you with more respect from now on.
2005-11-21 21:43:01
107.   Bob Timmermann
You can still knock off a made man, but you need a capo to OK it.

The things you learn from watching "The Sopranos".

2005-11-21 21:48:48
108.   LAT
72. Q: If you fail with expensive big-names, at least it looks like you tried.

A: What is Fox, Alex.

2005-11-21 21:52:19
109.   dzzrtRatt
107 I assume that rule will eventually catch up with Tony. He's never paid any price for what he did to Ralph, or for what his sister did to Richie.
2005-11-21 21:53:43
110.   Bob Timmermann

Well, I think that's the rule. Or else I'm in big trouble.

I've said too much.

2005-11-21 21:54:22
111.   Linkmeister
107 I thought capos were only to raise the key on guitars?

And I'd always thought that "God Bless You" was meant to cover the sneezer, since it was believed that the soul temporarily left his body during the sneeze.

Andrew, I don't recognize the character (or book) you stole the psuedonym from. Enlightenment, please?

2005-11-21 21:56:07
112.   LAT
107. Or ask Joe Peschi when he killed Billy Bats, a made man.
2005-11-21 21:57:56
113.   natepurcell has an article implying colletti is inquiring the marlins about delgado and pierre.

ewwwwwwww :(

2005-11-21 21:59:24
114.   das411
Yeah, what is Boston trying to do, pick up EVERY active starter that has ever thrown a CG shutout in the Series?

Cause to do that they would also need to pick up Glavine, help me out?

2005-11-21 22:00:30
115.   Bob Timmermann
Look up the works of "Vonnegut, Kurt".
2005-11-21 22:00:30
116.   regfairfield
113 Does that count as the worst case scenario?
2005-11-21 22:00:59
117.   Steve
2005-11-21 22:06:13
118.   natepurcell
seriously. once beckett got away, there is no need to ever call the marlins again this offseason.
2005-11-21 22:06:15
119.   Linkmeister
Vonnegut's written 20 or more books. Which one? Last one I remember reading was "Sirens of Titan."
2005-11-21 22:07:46
120.   Bob Timmermann
If Juan Pierre joins the Dodgers and if he reaches first base, we can hear Vin say "There's a rabbit loose!"

Brings back memories of waiting for Tom Goodwin to reach first.

2005-11-21 22:08:29
121.   Andrew Shimmin
111- Cat's Cradle, Vonnegut's magnum opus. Bokonon was a pretend holy-man who knew he was pretending. Very appealing to a teenage atheist who considered becoming a Lutheran minister. Also, I was worried that "Roland the headless Thompson gunner" would be too obscure.
2005-11-21 22:09:16
122.   Bob Timmermann
Let's just say the cat's in the cradle with the silver spoon.
2005-11-21 22:09:30
123.   Steve
If you are thinking of trading for Juan Pierre, just play Repko. It won't get us anywhere, but it's cheaper.
2005-11-21 22:10:12
124.   Bob Timmermann
"Roland the headless Thompson gunner" is one of my favorite songs.
2005-11-21 22:12:44
125.   Uncle Miltie
I don't have a problem with Delgado. At least he's good. McCourt is a cheapo though and won't pay him, so it's Pierre that they're interested in. He'd restore the "Dodger Tradition" of having a "great leadoff hitter and base stealer". At least it would make Vin happy.

I'd rather have Pierre, than have Lo Duca back.

2005-11-21 22:13:10
126.   natepurcell
i wish we had a overrated prospect like hanley ramirez to be the center of a trade for a premier young pitcher.
2005-11-21 22:13:29
127.   Uncle Miltie
123- Repko's a bettter defender than Pierre too.
2005-11-21 22:13:37
128.   Linkmeister
Thanks. I haven't read that one. Roland I would have recognized.

Show of hands for Zevon fans? Nah, never mind.

2005-11-21 22:13:43
129.   King of the Hobos
I too enjoy that song. I enjoy Zevon in general. Is that normal for a 17 yr old?
2005-11-21 22:14:11
130.   Uncle Miltie
126 coughedwinjacksoncough. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the value that he used to.
2005-11-21 22:14:15
131.   regfairfield
125 The problem with Delgado is while he's good, he eats up the entire offseason budget and fixes a hole that didn't need fixing. It's the same issue as Konerko except he costs more and costs us prospects to acquire.
2005-11-21 22:18:09
132.   Uncle Miltie
131- that's true, but would you rather have Ned blow the entire amount on Delgado or distribute it to players like J.T. Snow, Royce Clayton, Jacque Jones, and Joe Randa?
2005-11-21 22:18:26
133.   Steve
With Colletti, it's not going to be if, but when.
2005-11-21 22:18:49
134.   Bob Timmermann
I liked Warren Zevon when I was 17.

Of course when I was 17, Warren Zevon wasn't dead.

2005-11-21 22:20:49
135.   King of the Hobos
113 It's not really implying that. It's more Gurnick saying that they seem to fill holes, whether or not they actually do. He went more into detail about the prospect of re-acquiring LoDuca... The Beinfest talks could have been for Beckett, and thus meaningless.
2005-11-21 22:22:47
136.   King of the Hobos
Why does Colletti scare Steve so much after doing nothing (but an interview thaat seemed to happen more for convenience then anything, give him something to do in Florida)?
2005-11-21 22:23:30
137.   natepurcell
The Beinfest talks could have been for Beckett, and thus meaningless.

there is still hope!

like, if hanleygot into a car accident and went into a coma or something.

2005-11-21 22:28:21
138.   Uncle Miltie
I doubt it:
Mum on manager, GM indicates possible deal with Fish

It was posted at 12 AM EST
"We'll see how that develops," Colletti said, without mentioning names. "He knows our interest, and we'll talk in the future."

He said ownership has not given him a payroll limit and he said he doesn't "have a need for a direct number right now."
Which means it's not Delgado

It's the Latino/French man (in name only)

2005-11-21 22:28:34
139.   LAT
Does the fact that Delgado and Shawn Green are very close friends play into any of this? Could/would Delgato veto a trade?
2005-11-21 22:29:07
140.   Uncle Miltie
Delgado doesn't have a no trade clause.
2005-11-21 22:31:06
141.   natepurcell
Delgado doesn't have a no trade clause.

can we give him one just for the heck of it?

2005-11-21 22:33:43
142.   King of the Hobos
There are other players in the firesale. Maybe Colletti likes Castillo, or The Trade duo. Now I hope he's referring to Pierre...
2005-11-21 22:33:50
143.   regfairfield
132 I'd rather he make sensible signings. While my hopes are very low, I'll give him the benifit of the doubt until he actually does something stupid.
2005-11-21 22:33:54
144.   Steve
136 -- He went and talked to Jim Fregosi! What do you need? So all we have is rumors? Where are the rumors about deals that would help the team, instead of accumulate Florida's refuse?
2005-11-21 22:38:40
145.   Uncle Miltie
Would Pierre really be that bad (as long as we don't trade anything more than a prospect like Orenduff)? If he produces like he did in 2004, he'd be pretty good. Next year, he would walk and the Dodgers would get draft picks.
2005-11-21 22:40:12
146.   regfairfield
145 On Thursday, I called him Corey Patterson without the pop.

Draw your own conclusions from there.

2005-11-21 22:41:10
147.   popup
#120. Bob, some of us are still waiting. Have to be patient if you are going to be a Dodger fan.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-21 22:42:40
148.   King of the Hobos
Tim Brown's article out, not much that wasn't in Gurnick's article. The 2 points of interest:

Colletti said he has expressed to McCourt his visions for the team — adding an outfielder such as free agent Brian Giles, who is expected to draw as much as $11 million a year, a third baseman such as Nomar Garciaparra, who could fill in at shortstop as Cesar Izturis heals from Tommy John surgery, and another starting pitcher.

Angel pitching coach Bud Black is believed to be among those who will be contacted and interviewed.

2005-11-21 22:44:18
149.   Steve
I need a drink or ten.
2005-11-21 22:50:27
150.   Bob Timmermann
I need a drink or ten.

Spoken like a true BYU man.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-21 22:51:18
151.   Steve
Jim McMahon
2005-11-21 22:53:03
152.   Uncle Miltie
Bud Black = small ball manager?

Off topic: J.A. Adande wrote another article. Last time it was about Kim Ng, this time it's about Elton Brand. Too bad the Dodgers can't get a guy like him, a borderline great player, who is also intelligent, good in the community, clubhouse, with the media, and is basically the team's spokesman. Oh well.

2005-11-21 22:56:51
153.   Uncle Miltie
*another excellent article
2005-11-21 23:00:32
154.   LAT
Its nice to see Brand starting to get his due. He really is a solid guy and a very very good player but those are not the things that make ESPN's top 10 plays. He deserves far more recognition than he has gotten.
2005-11-21 23:03:27
155.   Uncle Miltie
If he was on the Lakers or Knicks, he'd be a 5 time all star (at least)
2005-11-21 23:06:25
156.   LAT
He was on the Bulls-but that doesn't mean much anymore.
2005-11-21 23:26:11
157.   molokai
Having been a Clipper fan for many agonizing seasons it is great to see the team getting some dues. Elton has been a good player but not a great player. This year he has been a great player. The stats are the same but in the past he was done by the 4th qtr and was never a factor at crunch time. This year he is making his presence known for the whole game. Having a real point guard for the 1st time in his career and maturation have taken his game to another level.
2005-11-21 23:26:59
158.   natepurcell
soooo, are there anymore 25 year old stud pitchers available that we can try and acquire?
2005-11-21 23:28:43
159.   dzzrtRatt
I think Zevon's first album came out when I was around 17. I had to get over the fact that mopey Jackson Browne produced it. It couldn't have been more different than the singer-songwriter model. Probably the only comparison is Randy Newman, but Zevon was harder-rocking and more emotionally open. To me "Desperados Under the Eaves" evokes Hollywood in the 1970s better than any film or book on the same topic. "Reconsider Me" is the most heart-breaking love song I think I've ever heard--well maybe except for all of "Blood on the Tracks."

Zevon's also one of the few rockers who wrote panegyrics about sports heroes: "Bill Lee" is an obscure but cool little song you'll find on "Bad Luck Streak in Dancing School," while "Boom Boom Mancini" is included in a couple of anthologies and his live album.

It always impressed me that Zevon studied composition as a teenager from his West LA neighbor, Igor Stravinsky. He is probably the only Stravinsky student whose father was a professional gambler.

2005-11-21 23:30:11
160.   molokai
I learn so much here.
2005-11-21 23:35:57
161.   dzzrtRatt
To take you further back, the guitarist who invented both the power chord and the artful use of feedback, Link Wray, has died. Every great rock guitarist worships him. R.I.P.
2005-11-21 23:37:22
162.   Uncle Miltie
What's really amazing about Brand is that he is only 26 years old (27 in March). Basketball is much different than baseball concerning "prime years". I think a lot of players in the NBA start to decline around 30 and usually don't play past 35.
2005-11-21 23:46:11
163.   natepurcell

The Red Sox and Marlins were close Monday night on a proposal that would send Beckett and Lowell to Boston for highly regarded minor-league shortstop Hanley Ramirez and a top pitching prospect. The hold-up was deciding on the pitcher. The Marlins want left-hander Jon Lester, but the Red Sox offered right-hander Anibel Sanchez.
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram and ESPN reported Monday night that the teams had agreed to a deal as long as the players involved passed physicals. But a Marlins source said the trade was still being discussed, with more work to be done

we still have hope. come on 4 headed dodger GM monster, swoop in for the kill!

then trade lowell to the twins for scott baker.

2005-11-21 23:47:05
164.   Bob Timmermann
Basketball players don't get to sit on the bench half the game or stand around in the field for long periods of time.

And then there's that running and jumping thing.

Surprisingly, there are a lot of hockey players who hang around for a long time and are still effective. Despite getting beat up all the time.

2005-11-21 23:50:29
165.   Uncle Miltie
Bob- are there any players you'd like to compare Brand to. HOFers?
2005-11-21 23:55:57
166.   molokai
2005-11-21 23:56:43
167.   Bob Timmermann

I'm not qualified in that department.

But I can make stuff up if you'd like.

2005-11-21 23:59:41
168.   molokai
Don't tell that to Sam I Am Cassel.

The 2006 version of EB is like a budding Mailman because he is now knocking down the 18 footer face up shot with regularity. Now they have to guard him out on the perimeter and he is just blowing by them to the basket.

2005-11-22 00:00:16
169.   Uncle Miltie
167- Yes, anything to make Elton Brand look like a future hall of famer
2005-11-22 00:02:16
170.   Bob Timmermann
You know who votes on members to the Basketball Hall of Fame?

Nobody except the people in Springfield. It's a secret panel.

It's more likely that you'll see Tom Izzo in the Basketball Hall of Fame than Elton Brand.

2005-11-22 00:02:41
171.   molokai
Nate that list only includes pitchers who had major league time in 2004. I haven't gotten the download yet for the 2005 season.
2005-11-22 00:03:20
172.   dzzrtRatt
152 Bud Black = small ball manager?

What, is 'small ball' some kind of infection? Black's the pitching coach. He's not asked his opinion on whether the Angels should lay down a bunt, or put Darin Erstad in the lineup.

It would be so much easier for us if everyone in baseball would identify themselves ideologically. Maybe they should set up baseball political parties.


2005-11-22 00:03:56
173.   Rob M
They just ran the infamous Campanis clip on Nightline.
2005-11-22 00:07:22
174.   Bob Timmermann
So we need to have confirmation hearings for managerial candidates?
2005-11-22 00:41:52
175.   dzzrtRatt
Now that's some out of the box thinking, worthy of the "McCourt" brand!

The Colletti 4 could narrow it down to, say, three candidates. Then an panel of fans (you'd have to pass a test to qualify, and then the panel would be chosen randomly from the qualified list) would grill the finalists in a series of public hearings. The first vote would eliminate one contender, then the surviving two candidates could be asked more questions before a final vote. Majority rules, no abstentions.

The manager would be accountable to the fans, and would have to appear monthly before the full assembly in a 'question time' akin to what Blair goes through in Parliament. Vin Scully would be given the gavel.

2005-11-22 05:17:50
176.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 97

One point on phrases like "God Bless America." There's a reason why the phrase isn't in the indicative, "God Blesses America,"--this is a rare use of the subjunctive in English--the meaning might be more clear if we said "Let God Bless America." The phrase doesn't actually mean God is blessing America at this moment, then one would use "blesses," it's more a request for divine favor, as opposed to an assertion of its existence. The same issue is in play when the Brits say "God Save the Queen!" They're asking God to do so, otherwise they would say "God Saves the Queen!"

I think Bob's right to say that there's an implication that America or England somehow "deserves" more divine favor than other groups of people, but I don't think too much should be made of this.

As for the actual song, I don't mind it, although I think there are better ways to recognize that the country is at war. I'm with scareduck in that I certainly don't think it's necessary to uncover and put my hand over my heart for God Bless America, and I'm a civilian faculty member at the Naval Academy, where we're obviously more of a stickler for this sort of thing. That really is a privilege that should be reserved for the National Anthem, and perhaps for something like the playing of Taps, but that would never be done at a place like a baseball park.


2005-11-22 05:20:13
177.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
BTW, I for one am not going to get too worked up about anything relating to trades and payroll, until I see Colletti actually start to show his cards. And I'm certainly not going to get the managerial search. Tracy was a disaster last season, but even with a perfect manager, it's not like we would've won the World Series, considering how decimated we were by injuries. I don't think anyone really knows what will happen come spring training--we may even still see Choi manning 1B. Who knows? A lot of this will obviously be dictated by how the trade and free agent markets play out.


2005-11-22 06:17:54
178.   D4P
Good and bad news:

The other player Joe Torre was asked to help recruit, outfielder Brian Giles, was leaning toward a return to the San Diego Padres, according to several baseball officials yesterday. But the Yankees still believed they had a chance to sign him, and he hasn't told them they're out of it. The Yankees would like to be able to lure center fielder Aaron Rowand from the Chicago White Sox, but as of yesterday the White Sox were working on a deal that would send Rowand to the Florida Marlins for center fielder Juan Pierre.

2005-11-22 06:29:03
179.   Colorado Blue
Maybe this will make Steve feel better...

New general manager Ned Colletti said Monday that while he hadn't formally requested permission from other teams to speak with potential candidates currently under contract, he would do so shortly. "The people that I've got under consideration, I'm doing some more legwork on," Colletti said during a conference call. "There's still three or four, maybe five out there."

I think after Colletti and Fregosi met...
Ng: "That went, uh, rather well, eh Ned?"
Ned: "Yeah, great. Who else is on the list..."

2005-11-22 07:30:48
180.   King of the Hobos
178 But do they want him back? They only have so much money, and have already replaced his salary with Cameron's salary. Hopefully they tell him no, and homesick, he takes the next best (NL) alternative

163 You think McCourt would hold onto Lowell's salary? (which is what Boston will do) But that would make the deal a lot better...

2005-11-22 07:32:00
181.   TheDictator
OK Having officially given up thinking about the Dodgers I am just going to be a fan for a while.

I would love to see Hee Seop Choi get a chance. I think he is going to be a great player.

I loved Paul LoDuca (obviously being a fan here) but I love Hee Seop more. I lived in Chicago when he was there and I liked him there. I followed him in Florida. I was ecstatic when we traded for him.

It was awesome to see the fans embrace him at Dodger Stadium chanting his name. Next season I plan to make my first trip to LA and Dodger stadium. I just hope Hee Seop is there so I can chant his name.

Besides he is cheap, locked up for a few years, and if Colletti is convinced Loney is worth anything (I'm not) Choi is a cheap stop gap.

P.S. What are all these jokes about Tommy Lasorda and the waiver wire (or is it player options?) about anyway?

2005-11-22 07:50:59
182.   SiGeg
159 -- "Reconsider Me" is the most heart-breaking love song I think I've ever heard--well maybe except for all of "Blood on the Tracks."

Yes, and yes.

2005-11-22 08:15:37
183.   SMY
178 I don't see the point of trading Rowand for Pierre. Can you imagine 2/3 of your starting outfield being Podsednik and Pierre? Smallball gone wild. Well, anything that keeps Pierre away from Dodger Stadium is fine by me.
2005-11-22 08:25:19
184.   gvette
Tim Brown's LA Times article today doesn't make a lot of sense:

How are you going to add Delgado's massive back loaded deal + Nomar + Giles (who by all accounts isn't interested)+ get help for the rotation AND keep within Frank's projected $75 million budget?

2005-11-22 08:35:27
185.   molokai
What was the web site that allows you to read newspaper articles without having to register? TIA
2005-11-22 08:43:42
186.   TheDictator

The Lasorda thing? Anybody?

2005-11-22 08:56:39
187.   deburns
The NYT Yankees article this morning references Bradley as a possible solution to the NYY's center field problem, but then suggests that they would not want to part with either Cano (whom we don't need) or Wang, who I don't see as being worth Bradley. Or are we just so anxious to get rid of MB that we will take a bottom of the rotation pitcher to do so.
As a whole, the article sounds like a bunch of speculation based on nothing much.
2005-11-22 08:59:38
188.   deburns
The LADL article by one Bonsignore (a good fellow, I guess from the name)says that Delgado would fill a need for a power hitting first baseman. Don't we already have one?
2005-11-22 09:15:16
189.   SiGeg
186 The Lasorda thing? Anybody?

Do you mean in Simers? For those smarter than I (ie you don't bother to read him), Simers has Lasorda scoffing at the idea of hiring Bud Black as manager, since he's never managed before. He tells Simers, "You'd crucify us for that." However, Tim Brown's article says Black is likely one of the candidates to be contacted, deflating the "Lasorda is running things" theories (which probably died when Colletti took over anyway. I think it's more like Tommy was using McCourt, McCourt was using Tommy, and no one was using any brains.)

Of course, Simers implies that he would only attack a hire like Black if Black failed in the job. Yeah, he'd give him time to succeed, and a fair and judicious evaluation. Uh huh.

2005-11-22 09:21:23
190.   scareduck
163 - we still have hope. come on 4 headed dodger GM monster, swoop in for the kill!

There is a reason nature offers only two-headed beasts, and then only as short-lived freaks.

175 - The Colletti 4 could narrow it down to, say, three candidates. Then an panel of fans (you'd have to pass a test to qualify

The test would be whether reading Bill Plaschke causes an involuntary up-and-down motion of the head. Everyone so affected advances to the next round.

2005-11-22 09:41:34
191.   molokai
I bag on Simers all the time but I liked his column today.

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