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Managerial Search Breakdown
2005-11-30 16:00
by Jon Weisman

Past CandidatesCurrent JobManaging ExperienceMLB PlayerComment
Bud BlackL.A. Angels pitching coachNone15 yearsLocation, location, location
Orel HershiserTexas executive directorNone18 yearsCoveted one minute, ignored the next
Torey LovulloAAA Buffalo manager4 years in minors12 yearsWill manage in majors soon
Jerry RoysterAAA Las Vegas manager53-94 with Milwaukee, 9 years in minors16 yearsInteresting to see how he does with top Dodger prospects in '06
Alan TrammellNone186-300 with Detroit20 yearsStill out there, actually
Bobby ValentineJapanese League manager536-437 with N.Y. Mets, 581-605 with Texas10 yearsTies to Dodger tradition overblown - a potential spark, but too pricey
Ron WotusSan Francisco 3B coach7 years in minors2 yearsNo longer permitted by S.F. to be considered
Present CandidatesCurrent JobManaging ExperienceMLB PlayerComment
Manny ActaN.Y. Mets 3B coach8 years in minorsNoStarted managing in his 20s – only 36 now
Terry CollinsDodger farm director220-237 with Anaheim, 224-197 with HoustonNoBranded a clubhouse mismanager, not considered serious option now
Jim FregosiAtlanta special assistant237-249 with California, 193-226 with Chi. White Sox, 431-463 with Philadelphia, 167-157 with Toronto18 yearsTwo division titles, one pennant in 15 years
Grady LittleChi. Cubs roving instructor188-136 with BostonNoWinner, but questioned about handling pitchers
John McLarenTBD with Tampa Bay5-5 as fill-in, 8 years in minorsNoTampa Bay bench coach in 2005
Joel SkinnerCleveland 3B coach35-41 with Cleveland, 6 years in minors9 yearsA Lovullo for the anti-Depodestites

Frankly, it's hard to tell the Paul DePodesta candidates apart from the Ned Colletti candidates, except that Colletti's surprisingly have less major league playing experience.

The column missing from this chart, of course, is "philosophy." We're still mostly in the dark about that for most of these guys.

The most peculiar aspect of the Dodger offseason, aside from the DePodesta firing, is the treatment of Hershiser. He was practically going to be the savior of the franchise - DePodesta's absence, however involuntary, from the team's meeting with Hershiser was supposedly of great signficiance - and then suddenly, Hershiser was irrelevant. One wonders whether this transformation was born of substance or carelessness.

My hunch is still that Lovullo should have been the choice. But it's just a hunch. Of the current candidates ... heck, I don't know. Only Little offers a standout track record, but even he comes with questions.

Comments (671)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-30 16:25:08
1.   scareduck
Just a hunch, but the lack of experience should be chalked up to Frank putting a justifiable scare into everyone in the industry. I very much doubt it was on purpose, i.e. if he could have gotten Piniella, he would have.
2005-11-30 16:31:04
2.   Uncle Miltie
Agree, I think Lovullo has a chance to be a very good manager, from everything I've read on him. And I love this quote:
"If you don't like Torey Lovullo, then you don't like baseball."
-Sparky Anderson

I'm a big Bobby Valentine fan, but there was no way the Dodgers were going to pay him what he got in Japan. None of Colletti's candidates seem very appealing, especially Jim Fregosi.

2005-11-30 16:33:22
3.   Steve
Is Skinner some kind of bunting maniac? Do I need to get yet another URL?
2005-11-30 16:54:19
4.   grandcosmo
I wouldn't put too much stock into what Sparky Anderson has to say about Torey Lovullo. He predicted Lovullo would be a Hall of Famer as a player and wanted to move Lou Whitaker to 3B to make room for him.
2005-11-30 17:01:39
5.   RELX
I just read that Fregosi worked with Colleti for two years as a special assitant to the Giants. That explains the connection. I hope that these other candidates aren't window dressing--Fregosi would be the worst possible choice. He's old and he's never won. Other than Joe Torre, has any other retread ever won on his third or fourth or fifth go around? Does Colleti go old-boy with someone he knows, or does he actually hire someone based on "merit?"

It is always more exciting to hire someone brand new, it is is like the anticipation of minor league prospects--could they become something great! Acta would be intriguing; however, I live in New York, watch the Mets constantly, and he is never mentioned at all as an up and comer, for what that is worth.

Still, in order of preference:

1. Acta
2. Skinner
3. McLaren

100. Grady Little
1,000,000,000. Fregosi

2005-11-30 17:12:15
6.   scanderbeg
Wow. That's a pretty underwhelming list of current candidates.
2005-11-30 17:20:19
7.   grandcosmo
5. >>>>Other than Joe Torre, has any other retread ever won on his third or fourth or fifth go around?

Well there would be Casey Stengel.

2005-11-30 17:22:50
8.   Bob Timmermann
Phil Garner is managing his third team.

The Marlins were Jack McKeon's fifth team.

The Yankees were Joe Torre's fourth team.

2005-11-30 17:25:05
9.   TheDictator
What is so wrong with Grady Little? (I know I just opened pandora's box here but what the heck!) He won circa 184 games in two seasons. Back to back 90 win seasons in LA would be great.

Did anyone see that ESPN is reporting that Konerko is signing with the White Sox. All us Choi fans can sleep easier tonight.

2005-11-30 17:28:35
10.   grandcosmo
Bobby Cox, Billy Martin, Bill McKechnie, Bucky Harris, and Bob Lemon all won World Series with their 3rd, 4th or 5th teams.

And thats just guys whose first names start with a "B".

2005-11-30 17:35:16
11.   dzzrtRatt
As I recall, before Gil Hodges took the Mets to their first World Championship, he was a lousy manager for the lousy Washington Senators.
2005-11-30 17:38:59
12.   Bob Timmermann
Bucky Harris did win a World Series with his first team in his first year.
2005-11-30 17:39:25
13.   sanchez101
9. i dont like how people point to a manager's record as an indication of his quality. It seems to me that a team's record has a lot more to do with the talent of the players on the team than with the manager. Would the Red Sox have done any worse in those years with Jim Tracy instead of Grady Little?
2005-11-30 17:46:38
14.   zappala
13 Heresy!
2005-11-30 17:48:30
15.   TheDictator
13 - I want to make the point that he managed a team constructed by Theo Epstein into consecutive winning seasons. If the Dodgers, at this point, are contructed by a similar philosophy, then wouldn't Grady Little succeed here too?

I am not merely pointing to record, although I will point out that wins and loses actually mean something in baseball. For instance, division titles, league titles, and world series titles. All of which equals cash in McCourt's pocket to pay bills and maybe even increase payroll.

Grady won with his players. Granted, he didn't win it all. But after the Dodgers last season, I will take consecutive 90+ winning seasons.

2005-11-30 17:50:25
16.   CT Bum
OK, let me get this straight...

Depo was fired (supposedly) for moving slow on hiring a manager, and also for having a managerial pool that wasn't considered "substantial" enough.

I have this correct, right?


2005-11-30 17:53:18
17.   TheDictator
13 (again) - I didn't answer your question. I don't think the Red Sox would have won with Jim Tracy. As evidence I present last year's Dodgers. Good players assembled to play a certain style of baseball. They were managed to play a different style that did not work. The same thing could have happened in Boston. (I know I am out on a limb here but the question calls me to be there)

Tracy's style did not match DePo's approach. Thus, they lost. I think Little's approach would be conducive to what the Dodger's currently are.

2005-11-30 18:07:34
18.   Rob M
Grady Little's choke in that game 7 against the Yankees was the biggest coaching choke I've ever seen happen live. Doesn't anybody remember how horrific that was? Pedro was SO done - as he had been after 100 pitches ALL YEAR. He was getting pounded! And the Sox bullpen was awesome at that point. Pedro went about 6 batters too far. He shouldn't have even started that inning. Little just sat there and rammed his fist down his throat on national televion. The announcers were shocked live on television as it was happening. If the game had been in Fenway, fans would have stormed the field and brought in Embree themselves.
2005-11-30 18:11:03
19.   TheDictator
18 - So, he choked. Who hasn't at some point in their lives about some matter. What else is wrong with Little?
2005-11-30 18:18:56
20.   DaveP
For those of you who get ESPN Deportes and would like to see Joel Guzman playing, Licey and Estrellas are in the 6th inning right now. I tuned in just in time to see Guzman ground out. He's 0-2 with a walk. He should get another at bat before it's over.

Not sure which position he is playing tonight since the 2B made a throw over to 1B and it wasn't Guzman taking the throw.

2005-11-30 18:26:23
21.   MikeLumHarris
Does Managerial Search Breakdown sound anything like "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" by Flatt & Scruggs?
2005-11-30 18:30:01
22.   Michael Green
Careful. Earl Scruggs is 81, but he's still alive and in good shape. He might wind up on the list to be interviewed.

He definitely would be the best banjo player ever to manage in the big leagues.

2005-11-30 18:31:38
23.   DaveP
Guzman is playing shortstop tonight.
2005-11-30 18:34:07
24.   Rob M
19 Well, choking under pressure is not a quality I cherish in a manager. Neither is "going with them that brung ya" or letting your star pitcher lose the last game of the year because "he earned the right."

Winning 90 games with that roster in Boston is not something I credit Little with. A team's record will roughly reflect its talent. A manager is responsible for a few really important things. Making pitching changes is probably the most important one, in terms of impact on W's and L's. Playing the right player in the right spot is probably second. Managing the clubhouse and peronalities and all that is probably 3rd. I don't know a whole lot about Little's managerial philosophy, but I saw him so mismanage his pitching staff in that game that I'll have a hard time believing that he has the requisite skill for the job.

2005-11-30 18:34:49
25.   alnyden
Given these options, can anyone say they wouldn't rather have Jim Tracy? This off-season is like watching a train wreck in slow motion, and it's even more disheartening when you remember this team was in the playoffs just over a year ago. In 20 years as a Dodger fan, I have never been so upset with the direction, or lack thereof, of the team, and I am starting to feel hopeless about the situation improving any time soon.
2005-11-30 18:34:50
26.   Bob Timmermann
If you go to there is a picture of Earl and you start hearing the opening of "Foggy Moutain Breakdown", aka "Getaway Music."
2005-11-30 18:38:40
27.   grandcosmo
22. >>>>He definitely would be the best banjo player ever to manage in the big leagues.

I wouldn't be so sure. What about "Jolly Cholly" Grimm?

2005-11-30 18:38:54
28.   DaveP
25 - I'll pass on Tracy.
2005-11-30 18:49:21
29.   DaveP
Carlos Perez pitching for Licey tonight. He's still doing that obnoxious 180 jump when he strikes someone out. He and Jose Lima should have a pitch off and see which can annoy the most opposing hitters with their antics.
2005-11-30 18:52:19
30.   popup
#27, Maury Wills deserves to be on the list of banjo playing managers. I sure hope he was a better banjo player than major league manager.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-30 18:53:07
31.   Bob Timmermann
As long as Maury Wills knew which end was up on the banjo, then he was a better banjo player than manager.
2005-11-30 18:56:10
32.   D4P
Rumors circulating that Giles has chosen to resign with the Padres.
2005-11-30 18:57:11
33.   DaveP
RBI double for Guzman.
2005-11-30 18:59:24
34.   Steve
25 -- yep
2005-11-30 19:05:54
35.   dzzrtRatt
25 Things will look a little better when the Dodgers have a manager. First, they'll have a manager. Second, Colletti will be able to start dealing. I think it is far too early to tell whether he is good or bad for the team--those who were willing to give DePo three seasons owe Colletti the same. But it is fair to pick up early indications from this off-season, and I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll be able to engineer a few decent moves.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic with any of the remaining managerial choices too, including Grady Little, except for Fregosi, who just seems too old and retrograde to be right for this team, or this town.

I certainly think Little deserves another chance somewhere, and why not here? His choice in that fateful game was epically wrong, but if I was going to be judged for the rest of my life based on my biggest mistake, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to make even bigger ones.

2005-11-30 19:09:26
36.   Uncle Miltie
But news on Giles. I wonder what Ned offered him (if he even made an offer). Having Giles means that the Padres won't have a pathetic lineup.
2005-11-30 19:09:55
37.   Uncle Miltie
2005-11-30 19:10:54
38.   Uncle Miltie
So does this mean Ned should go all out to get Furcal? No.
2005-11-30 19:16:13
39.   zappala
16 So let's say DePodesta hired Collins within a few days of firing Tracy, before McCourt can fire him. Does McCourt now fire DePodesta anyway, and fire Collins while he's at it, so the new GM can have a fresh start?

I wouldn't put it past him!

2005-11-30 19:16:18
40.   D4P
Does this (if true) mean Ned WOULD go all out to get Furcal? Probably.
2005-11-30 19:16:30
41.   the OZ
I guess San Diego radio is reporting Giles' new deal with the Padres is 3 years, $34M plus an option of some sort.

I hope we don't spend just for the sake of a payroll figure. There's a funny (yet serious) article on BP today about how no teams should sign any free agents this offseason because they are all bad investments.

2005-11-30 19:18:40
42.   zappala
Let that be a lesson to all new GMs -- hurry up and hire a manager before you get fired too! Colletti, you better watch your back!
2005-11-30 19:19:42
43.   Ben H
Gurnick has an update on Colletti's plans. This part made me feel a little better:

Trading prospects: "It's one thing to trade a prospect, it's another thing to trade a star or future star," he said. "A lot of prospects never make it. We have a handful that we'd have to be overwhelmed to talk about." Those are believed to include Billingsley, LaRoche, Matt Kemp, Scott Elbert and Blake DeWitt.

2005-11-30 19:21:01
44.   molokai
Here is an ESPN conference call with Colletti.
Not anything real interesting except he said his biggest priority for the ballclub is the outfield. Said that Giles and Furcal are the two FA he's trying hard to sign and Weaver is not really in the picture.

If the Giles report is true, I'm bummed. They sure increased their offer from the 8 mill per year. Maybe they got scared the Dodgers were going to get him and we forced them to increase the package.

2005-11-30 19:21:49
45.   Steve
Wow, the Padres get Giles and panic us into buying the 60 million dollar Oscar Robles with a rap sheet. Well played.
2005-11-30 19:21:57
46.   DaveP
43 - where is Guzman in that list??
2005-11-30 19:23:04
47.   dzzrtRatt
41 BP is right. The FA market is so unimpressive this year, yet the GMs are reacting like trained seals. I mean, Johnny Damon/Scott Boras thinking they're entitled to a seven-year deal? I wish every GM would tell Boras his client can go play in Japan.

With the 10-deep prospects and the mighty mighty hype around them, the Dodgers are in a far better position to trade for a Giles-type with a more reasonable contract, than to pay insanely for him or anyone else on the market now. I'm glad the Padres want to go broke on the guy. Maybe they'll finish ahead of the Dodgers next season, maybe they won't. But after '06, that contract is going to be a dead weight on their chances.

2005-11-30 19:23:51
48.   molokai
You mean the 5 guys with little upside:)

Matt Kemp is currently my favorite prospect but I expect DeWitt to explode this year.

2005-11-30 19:24:31
49.   DaveP
never been to this site before, but someone linked to it from the mlb forums for Giles signing details:
"After the Dodgers offered outfielder Brian Giles a 3-year, 34.5M contract, the Padres beefed up their offer to 3-years, 30M with an option for 2009 that would make the deal worth 36M. Immediately, Giles agreed to re-sign. He will take a physical Thursday morning with an official announcement expected Thursday afternoon. KGTV-10 in San Diego first reported the deal."

2005-11-30 19:24:39
50.   trainwreck
Well there goes the only free agent I really cared about acquiring.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-30 19:24:57
51.   overkill94
Man, only 10 million a year? I still find it hard to believe this story is true unless Giles truly wanted to go back to the Pads.

Here's an ESPN link by the way

2005-11-30 19:28:50
52.   dzzrtRatt
More Gurnick on Colletti's plans. I liked this graf a lot, although it was obviously written when Giles was still in play:

Position prospects: Turning one of those over to a rookie like third baseman Andy LaRoche, infielder Joel Guzman or first baseman James Loney is also in play. "If you had a veteran club and a young player who can play defense now, if you had enough offense you'd take that shot," he said. "So you try to add a free agent or two or three and build up with veteran starters around the kids so you've got a good supporting cast." The Dodgers already figure to do that with young catchers Dioner Navarro and Russell Martin.

2005-11-30 19:29:21
53.   overkill94
50 Agreed, I'm pretty bummed he decided to accept an inferior offer. It's not like he's a lifetime Padre or anything, maybe he was swayed by the fences being moved in. At least we gave it the old college try, 34.5 million is nothing to sneeze at.

Should it be assumed that the focus will be on pitching now? Do we dare enter the Johnny Damon sweepstakes? Is a trade the only way to bolster the offense? So many questions now that the ringer is out.

2005-11-30 19:29:26
54.   molokai
Can't agree since I've been pushing for Giles. Giles will earn his money for all 3 years. My optimistic compass just polarized thinking of an outfield of Cruz/Drew/Werth. Just thinking about the fragility of those 3 makes me gag. Like Nate, I hoped Giles was the centerpiece of our renewal for next year.
2005-11-30 19:31:09
55.   joejoejoe
I think Bobby Valentine is the best of that bunch. Take a look at the 2000 Mets roster and it doesn't impress. Yet Bobby V. miled a World Series appearance out of them. Valentine gets teams to play hard and well in the short run. He reminds me a bit of Billy Martin or Larry Brown in another sport. I'm not all that familiar with the Dodgers talent but if you think there is any way possible that LA can compete for a pennant in the next 2-3 years Valentine is worth the money.

2005-11-30 19:31:27
56.   Ben H
46, 48 - The warm fuzzy part for me was the quote, not the speculation by Gurnick on the untouchables.
2005-11-30 19:31:32
57.   natepurcell
if its true and we did offer 3 yrs 34.5 mil, cant fault flanders for trying.

oh well, i am really bummed. well back to studying for accounting test!

2005-11-30 19:31:35
58.   DaveP
54 - is Delwyn Young in the mix to play LF? If you listen to Royster, he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
2005-11-30 19:32:44
59.   molokai
Looks like he gave them a home town discount. I knew I liked that guy. At least Colletti made em spend more money. A small win but we take what we can get.
2005-11-30 19:34:00
60.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I also think that the failure to sign Giles is a serious problem. We desperately need OF depth, and he was the only FA worth the money.

I still have no enthusiasm to make a strong move for Furcal. I'd rather we give a one-year deal to Nomah and trust in the IF prospects on the farm.

Colletti will obviously have to be creative to acquire the corner OF we need.


2005-11-30 19:38:56
61.   Jesse
bobby abreu will make me sleep well this winter.
2005-11-30 19:41:02
62.   trainwreck
Aren't the Phillies willing to get rid of Abreu, lets go after him.
2005-11-30 19:41:49
63.   Uncle Miltie
61- unfortunately I don't see us ripping off Pat Gillick
2005-11-30 19:42:48
64.   King of the Hobos
This sucks. I was really hoping Klesko would protect Cameron. The Padres are just about out of money to spend by now, so they're just about set.

My vision of 2006 depended greatly on Giles. I was hoping he'd at least leave the division, now we have a serious threat. I just know Colletti will now throw a lot of money at Jacque Jones and increase the offer to Furcal, improving us minimally. Or the money will go to Damon. Or Lawton. Or Sosa. My interest in Nomar has increased tenfold

There's supposedly a secret team with a 3 year, $15 mil deal offered to Paul Byrd. Anyone think it's the Dodgers?

2005-11-30 19:43:28
65.   werthgagne31
Since giles is gone, its time to rebuild at look towards 2007.

I'm seriously begining to believe mccourt doesn't want to sign anyone above 9 million per year (yes i know drew is signed at 11 million per year)but i think he is done with anything higher than 9 million, and that payroll will be 70-80 million under his ownership.

There is not enough now on the free agent market to put together a competing team, and if you trade, you'll end up trading key players for other key players with no gain.

Rebuild and look towards 2007.

2005-11-30 19:45:55
66.   DaveP
Guzman finished up 1-4 with an RBI double and a walk. He just hammered a line drive to CF with 1st and 2nd in the 9th, but it was run down. He's looked very strong at the plate tonight. Played SS, but I didn't see him handle any balls since tuning in during the 6th inning.
2005-11-30 19:46:19
67.   King of the Hobos
Abreu would be nice, but would cost Navarro/Martin, Laroche, and/or good pitching prospects. Unless the Philles covered a large portion of his salary... Maybe Jason Michaels could be had for cheaper (although he hardly solves anything and I'm not sure he passes the character test)

What are the chances that if Furcal signs with the Cubs, Colletti will go hard after Gathright or Pierre? Giles signing with the Padres is a disaster in so many ways

2005-11-30 19:50:36
68.   Curtis Lowe
So the Padres resign Giles, Acquire Cameron and Castilla. The Dodgers have resigned Jose Cruz Jr. and put Werth into surgery. Things are looking pretty bleak for our boys in blue.
2005-11-30 19:53:37
69.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 65

I think that may very well be the wisest course, but McCourt will want immediate results, and Colletti knows that. He'll make some moves, which may or may not work out, but he'll at least have to dry. I just worry that this will lead to foolish contracts and even more foolish trades.


2005-11-30 19:54:05
70.   D4P
The Dodgers still have Drew and Kent. If that was enough to get excited about 2005, shouldn't it be enough to get excited about 2006?
2005-11-30 19:55:44
71.   D4P
Yep. It won't look good for Colletti or McCourt if, after McCourt fired Depo, Colletti just comes in and keeps Depo's roster intact. I'm sure he will feel pressured to do SOMEthing, and that something will probably be foolish.
2005-11-30 19:58:08
72.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I think the best thing might very well be to hang on to Bradley. Colletti should find some way to engineer some elaborate public apology and tender him a contract. We could go into the season with Drew, Bradley, Werth, Cruz, and Ledee. We'd just have to hope that at any given time, three of these five would be healthy and reasonably productive options.


2005-11-30 19:59:46
73.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 70

We were all expecting then to have full seasons of a healthy Werth and Bradley. It's clear that may no longer be the case now.


2005-11-30 20:00:55
74.   werthgagne31
I agree that foolish trades and free agent signings are coming, and it will push us farther away from a dynasty than we were at under depodesta.

Under depodesta, 2007 was going to be the begining of a dynasty, but now with colletti and giles being gone foolish stuff is coming and pushing 2007's dynasty back a few years if not totally gone.

What is up with our interest in furcal, this would be sssssssssooooooooo foolish.

2005-11-30 20:02:43
75.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Actually, on second thought, I have such misgivings about Bradley's possible problems with spousal abuse that I'm not sure I really would like him to be tendered a contract.

If Colletti can engineer a fair trade where we get a legit near major-league ready OF, who we'd then try out at a corner, for some of our IF depth, I'd be fine with that. But I really hope he doesn't make a move just for the sake of making a move.


2005-11-30 20:04:26
76.   molokai
I don't understand your math. We just offered Giles 3/34 which comes out to a little more then 11 mill per year. How do you come to the conclusion that McCourt won't go any higher then 9?

We also thought Werth was going to hit 30 home runs, that Choi was going to hit 25 home runs, that Scott Erickson would never vist a Dodger roster, that Izzy had turned the offensive corner and was on his way to being Vizquel lite, that JD Drew would play 140 games. Instead Werth becomes useless in 2005 and now probably in 2006 since his wrist will still be a problem. Choi will probably never get to play. Izzy is out and when he comes back was he the April/May Izzy or the worse offensive SS we've had since the 2003 version. That JD Drew while a great player who had bad luck with the broken wrist but also has serious shoulder issues that we were unaware of headed into 2005. On the optimistic side I think I can say with 100% accuracy that Scott Erickson will not visit a Dodger roster in 2006.

We've got work to do but I'm still optimistic.

2005-11-30 20:05:51
77.   norcalblue
I can live with either Acta or Skinner.

Hiring either of these men would be a clear signal that Colletti is in charge (as opposed to Lasorda or Plaschke). Moreover, both of these guys are going to come to the job undertsanding that it is their job to manage the team on the field and provide input on players privately to the GM (not through the media). If they are told that the "plan" is to go with the farm system and nurture the young talent these guys will be far more likely to remain loyal to that approach and the leaders who adopt it than will a 63 year-old who knows it all and wants to win now.

My guess (hope) is that Colleti understands this...the question is will Frank and Jamie support him.

2005-11-30 20:07:52
78.   trainwreck
I take it Nate's offseason excel sheet for success is in need of changes with Giles gone.
2005-11-30 20:08:07
79.   werthgagne31
Are you sure we offered giles 3/34?

I think its just more bull coming from mccourt.

2005-11-30 20:09:44
80.   King of the Hobos
Based on the thing Gurnick put on, Colletti wanted Giles and Furcal, and was willing to leave the rotation alone. Anyone think that could change? I have a feeling an offer will now be presented to Nomar to be our SS/3B/LF. Signing Giles could be smart, if only to prevent a Pierre/Gathright trade. If the Bradley-Walker deal is true, would there be interest in putting Walker in left? I really wish Giles followed the money, we'd be in a much better position right now
2005-11-30 20:11:03
81.   King of the Hobos
Signing Furcal could be smart, if only to prevent a Pierre/Gathright trade
2005-11-30 20:12:07
82.   werthgagne31
I think mccourt wanted to keep jim tracy, but tracy opted out because he didn't agree with depodesta, then mccourt fired depodesta.

And i think mccourt wants a low payroll and is just bullshitting people about offering free agents such and such money.

Mccourt is a bullshitter and a cancer, this franchise is a mess.

2005-11-30 20:16:00
83.   werthgagne31
Furcal is a joke, add 10 home runs per season over what izturis will hit, and at a 7 million dollar raise over izturis.

Not that i'm a fan of izturis, i want izturis gone, but a 10 million dollar ss that hits 10-15 home runs with an average obp is not worth it.

2005-11-30 20:16:07
84.   Steve
Burning down the stadium would be smart, if only to prevent a Pierre trade.
2005-11-30 20:17:45
85.   D4P
I know just the guy for that job.

2005-11-30 20:20:17
86.   D4P
But, but, he's speedy!
2005-11-30 20:23:24
87.   Steve
86 - Which is what he got pulled over for.
2005-11-30 20:24:32
88.   werthgagne31
Plus on top of all of this, the manager situation is taking forever, what player wants to play for a team when he doesn't even know who the manager is, let along the pitching coach for pitchers.
2005-11-30 20:28:54
89.   D4P
Guess he wasn't speedy enough.
2005-11-30 20:31:33
90.   natepurcell
if spending money on furcal would stop us from spending money on jaque jones or any remaining outfielder, i am all for it.
2005-11-30 20:32:46
91.   D4P
How is it even possible that Furcal can ask for $10 million/year and not have every single GM laugh in his face?
2005-11-30 20:33:58
92.   das411
Nate, do you think Aubrey Huff could be had from TB for an arm or two from the system? He could be a decent stopgap 3B/RF and the biggest need over in Tampa Bay is pitching, pitching, pitching...
2005-11-30 20:36:31
93.   Steve
As Atlanta Braves shortstop Rafael Furcal sat in the dark in his Mercedes along I-85 just north of Brookwood early Friday, he pleaded with the Atlanta police officer about to arrest him on speeding and drunk driving charges.

"I play for the Braves. Can you give me a chance?" the 26-year-old infielder said around a plug of chewing tobacco he had just put in his mouth, according to an arrest report filed by Atlanta Officer A.P. Taddei.


Taddei said he first saw Furcal's $100,000 Mercedes S55 doing about 90 in the far left lane on northbound I-75/85 at the Brookwood split. He said he signaled Furcal to pull over and Furcal pulled onto the shoulder to the left of the HOV lane. Taddei said he told Furcal to pull off on the road's right shoulder just before the Buford Connector.

Taddei said Furcal had a woman and a "large amount of cash" in the car.

Classy. Thankfully, he's a desperately mediocre middle infielder anyway, so it doesn't really matter that he's a jerk.

2005-11-30 20:37:14
94.   natepurcell
from usatoday.coom

The Dodgers, who are pursuing free agents Rafael Furcal and Kevin Millwood, say they have about $18 million to spend

i guess there could be worse ways to spend the money.

2005-11-30 20:37:28
95.   D4P
"Jim Fregosi, who's expected to be hired this week as the Dodgers' new manager, plans to invite World Series hero Kirk Gibson to be his first-base coach."

"The Dodgers, who are pursuing free agents Rafael Furcal and Kevin Millwood, say they have about $18 million to spend."

2005-11-30 20:39:14
96.   D4P
Furcal and Kent could give the Dodgers the jerkiest middle infield in the league. At least that would be SOMEthing.
2005-11-30 20:39:23
97.   natepurcell
Nate, do you think Aubrey Huff could be had from TB for an arm or two from the system? He could be a decent stopgap 3B/RF and the biggest need over in Tampa Bay is pitching, pitching, pitching...

sure, if those arms are broxton and billingsley. the tampa papers reported that drays were interested in russ martin for gathright, i think their trade demands for huff will be pretty high.

im not really a fan of huff anyways.

Glaus is still on the block, he could be a big bat to get..

2005-11-30 20:41:30
98.   Steve
90 -- Is it worse to overpay for several mediocrities, or one big mediocrity? For instance, let's say the Cubs give Furcal $100 million and Neifi's first two children. Maybe we have to top it to keep Colletti from doing worse? Sort of a bizarro Superman world sunk cost argument? We're going to spend money like idiots we might as well get it over with and minimize the damage? The wages of stupidity?


2005-11-30 20:42:05
99.   molokai
Because the Red Sox gave Renteria the same contract and we know how smart the Red Sox are.
That is the going rate for an average FA SS.
2005-11-30 20:44:27
100.   King of the Hobos
If we sign Furcal, would Colletti move Kent to 1B to accomodate Izturis? If that's the plan, what happens if Choi breaks out? Choi better break out at that point
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-30 20:45:14
101.   Kilgore Trout
Anyone notice this idea (apparently Colletti's) from Gurnick's piece on

"Furcal is intriguing mainly because he is a quality leadoff hitter. He would take over for the injured Cesar Izturis, who probably would move to second base when he returns."

The only thing Izturis has going for him is that he is a Gold Glove shortstop. Why would anyone think of keeping him to play at any other position?

2005-11-30 20:45:41
102.   natepurcell
i know we are all bummed about giles, but i still think we can salvage this offseason....

... ill get back to you know how we can do that.

2005-11-30 20:45:47
103.   Steve
A Furcal/Izturis middle infield? Oh yeah. Break out those rings, baby. That spells dinestee.
2005-11-30 20:46:06
104.   Xeifrank
Let's not panic yet. The Padres really haven't improved themselves over last years very average team. They resigned Giles, they traded for Cameron and Castilla. Hardly an improvement over last years team. Sure, the Dodgers will have question marks next year along with every other team in the NL West. If Colletti doesn't do anything TOO stupid, we still have as good of a team as anybody else in the NL West. We still have Bradley on the team, and a lineup that includes Drew, Kent, Bradley, Choi, CruzJr, Aybar/APerez and Navarro isn't all that bad. Sure, we don't have much depth just like last year but I'm not sure other teams in our division have much depth either. Before you give up on 2006, keep in mind what division the Dodgers play in and that the goal is to win the division and hope for some hot dice at the craps table. vr, Xei
2005-11-30 20:46:54
105.   Steve
If Colletti doesn't do anything TOO stupid

And the odds of this are...low?

2005-11-30 20:47:24
106.   Uncle Miltie
Furcal= 2 DUI's, a scandal at a strip club, chews tobacco, and the woman in the car with him was likely an "upper class" call girl.
Bradley= got in a couple fights with his wife, appears that both parties were at fault, doesn't get along with the team jerk (Kent), does the most charity work of any player on the team

It's all starting to make sense now...

2005-11-30 20:47:54
107.   King of the Hobos
I'd rather not go after Millwood. Mostly because I have a feeling Boras' 500 page book on Millwood recommends a 7 year, $100 mil contract
2005-11-30 20:49:19
108.   Bob Timmermann
What does the cover to the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the NL West" say?

Remember people:

Don't Panic

The entry for the Dodgers has been updated to: "Mostly mediocre"

2005-11-30 20:52:01
109.   molokai
Everyone should chill.
Furcal is going to sign with the Cubs or Braves not the Dodgers
Jaque Jones is going to sign with the Cardinals or Mariners not the Dodgers

You guys sound like he's already spent money on a crippled outfielder and are condeming him about what you think he might do before he's done anything at all. He gave it a great shot on Giles. Just because he has 18 million to spend doesn't mean he's going to use it on any ole free agent. He might be willing to pick up some huge contracts like Abreu.

2005-11-30 20:52:38
110.   Bob Timmermann
Tommy Hawkins unloads on the McCourts to Simers

2005-11-30 20:52:41
111.   D4P
I'm still trying to figure out how Flanders' superior communication skills weren't enough to convince Giles to sign. At least the McCourts enjoy his company. That's all that really matters.
2005-11-30 20:55:09
112.   molokai
That quote was from Gurnick not from Colletti. Colletti never said anything about what he planned to do with Izturis. The actual interview can be found on ESPN.

It is possible that Izzy after having TJ surgery may not be able to play SS. I don't know of any SS who have had the TJ surgery so I think this is new ground.

2005-11-30 20:55:36
113.   Steve
Here's the problem. I realize that Colletti hasn't yet done anything stupid. But where are the good ideas? The best idea was signing Giles and that didn't work out, and that wasn't even a particularly great idea or a slam dunk. So where do we go from here? The other ideas are not just to get by, they're horrible, god-awful rumors. Hiring Fregosi, signing Furcal, trading for Pierre, trading a future All-Star catcher (not that they grow on trees or anything) for Chad Fonville's little brother -- these are all the ideas of a madman -- or Ed Wade. How about just one rumor on par with "the Dodgers are trying to get Randy Johnson?" Or, at least, "the Dodgers are trying not to become the Detroit Tigers of the NL, desperately throwing absurd double-digit million a year contracts at anybody who will deign to take a meeting with them."
2005-11-30 21:01:47
114.   zappala
110 Wow. Wow. That's almost enough to make me root against the Dodgers winning because the McCourts don't deserve it. I can't imagine disliking an owner more.
2005-11-30 21:03:25
115.   Steve
110 - Jason Phillips was playing first base last year. Why is any of this a surprise?
2005-11-30 21:04:09
116.   Uncle Miltie
Colletti's to do list:
Trade Bradley for Corey Patterson
Sign Royce Clayton
Hand James Loney the starting catching job
Find a veteran catcher (Navarro can backup)
Sign Bill Mueller (I wouldn't really have a problem with this one)
Sign Jason Johnson to a 2 year contract
Non tender Hee Seop Choi

C Toby Hall or Mike Lieberthal
1B James Loney
2B Jeff Kent
SS Royce Clayton (great bunter, would bat 2nd)
3B Bill Mueller
LF Werth/Cruz
CF Patterson (very fast, can be the leadoff hitter)
RF Drew


We would have a great defensive team!

2005-11-30 21:05:44
117.   Uncle Miltie
Hand James Loney the starting catching job
Ooops, 1B, it would be interesting to see a left handed catcher though
2005-11-30 21:06:11
118.   werthgagne31
I find it funny that awhile ago i was arguing with alot of people that said giles will not sign for less than 5 years, and i was saying he will sign for 3 or 4 years, and guess what, he signed for 3 years.

I hope the dodgers just stand pat and don't sign anyone, and just give the youngsters playing time, now that giles is gone, but that's not going to happen, i bet colletti signs 2 mediocre players and calls it a winter.

And the 2 mediocre players will turn out to be guys we can't get rid of, and will be a drag to the team.

2005-11-30 21:07:44
119.   Xeifrank
Steve. Part of the free agent signing period is about rumors. Some rumors are true but many are smoke screens for whatever reason. Rumors are started by both sides, and often used as negotiation ploys, for PR purposes or other reasons. I think we can all agree that this years crop of free agents isn't all that good and next years doesn't look much better. That being said, Colletti does not have an easy job and niether would Depodesta if he were still in charge (god bless his computer). I don't see how a Randy Johnson rumor or a Barry Bonds to the Dodgers rumor is going to fix anything. I enjoy your wit and sarcasm as much as anybody here, but I think we should all keep in perspective what the big picture is. We are an average team in a below average division. If our key players are somewhat healthy we could easily be the favorite to win the NL West. I along with you will keep my fingers crossed that Colletti doesn't sign any of the trash that you've mentioned. vr, Xei
2005-11-30 21:12:59
120.   D4P
That's almost enough to make me root against the Dodgers winning because the McCourts don't deserve it. I can't imagine disliking an owner more.

The previous proprietor wasn't particularly likeable either.

2005-11-30 21:17:57
121.   molokai
Yeah your right. Where are the good idea's like
1. Giving a manager an extension who you know does not see eye to eye with you on how to use the roster you've provided for him and harbors a grudge over a trade you made.
2. Returning Scott Erickson's agents phone call

Colletti is going to make some mistakes just like Depo did, but it is possible that he will also make some good decisions, just like Depo did, but I don't think anyone here is ever going to give him a chance. It is not Colletti's fault that McCourt fired Depo. I think some of you want Colletti to fail so that you can justify the firing of Depo as being the wrong thing to do. We all know it was the wrong thing to do, so we can either root against the Dodgers and the ex-Giant they hired or give him a chance to put his stamp on the team. It may not be a sabermetric stamp but that does not mean it can't be a winning team.

Just curious how is Depo list of managers any more inspiring then Colletti's?

2005-11-30 21:19:41
122.   molokai
I think it is funny that DTS is now the best owner in Los Angeles.
2005-11-30 21:21:04
123.   Steve
When I have my baseball show, I'm going to be just like Cramer on Mad Money.
2005-11-30 21:22:09
124.   Steve
Giving a manager an extension who you know does not see eye to eye with you on how to use the roster you've provided for him and harbors a grudge over a trade you made. cut me where it hurts.

Well played.

2005-11-30 21:27:11
125.   molokai
I thought the 2nd one was better.
2005-11-30 21:31:29
126.   regfairfield
121 DePo's list was slightly more encouraging because I was at least confident that his choice would be appropriate for the team.

Maybe Colletti has changed his philosophy since joining the Dodgers, but every prior interview has indicated he's of the "there's no such thing as an aggressive mistake" mind set. What if he brings in one of those guys without overhauling the roster? You have another guy who just assumes that Oscar Robles is fast.

Hopefully, I'm wrong about this, and Colletti will just keep the core he has and work from there, but when your list of managers is a list of good ol' boys, I'm not confident.

2005-11-30 21:32:44
127.   dzzrtRatt
Wow, Brian Giles signs for almost as much as J.D. Drew (per year), despite being about five years older and this is seen by people here as a disappointment? I think we dodged a bullet not paying out for that guy. I don't hate him; all things being equal, it would've been nice to see him on board. But if you look at the Dodgers' assets strategically, we're in a far stronger position to make trades (including in-season trades) than we are to sign free agents. I hope we lose out on Furcal too.

Free agents cost too much and want too many years. They tie up limited assets, and represent an enormous opportunity cost. If you're a win-now organization, they make sense as the cherry on the frosting. You've probably already promoted or traded your best prospects, and you have to optimize the investment.

But if you're an organization like LA, short on major league talent, but long on hyped prospects, you can make this year's team competitive through trades. Everyone wants the hot prospect who they can control and pay peanuts; the Dodgers are frankly oversupplied with those. So, we get teams like Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, Philadelphia, etc. to send us a major leaguer who isn't making $10 million a year, to whom we'll only be committed for a couple years, in return for some of the prospects. Not the "future stars," as Colletti termed them, but from the other 9 of our 10-deep. We thus retain financial flexibility while improving the team in the short run, and without sacrificing the long run.

P.S. Seeing the market now, how great was DePodesta's deal with Jeff Kent? But those kinds of deals are so rare.

2005-11-30 21:33:12
128.   natepurcell
can nomar play left field?

if he can... bam! this is our contingency plan.

-trade odalis+minor league pitching fillers to dbacks for glaus (dbacks do this because of salary and the need for another pitcher after having to trade vazquez)

-sign nomar to a 2 yr 15mil incentive laden deal (bonus for reaching number of PAs)

-sign matt morris 2 yr 15 deal with 3rd yr 8mil option, automatically kicks in if he pitches 400 innings in those two years.

its all set!
ss robles-330k
lf nomar-7.5
rf drew-11
2b kent-9
3b glaus-9.25
1b choi-950k (arby)
rf cruz-2.91
c navrro-330k

penny- 6.5
lowe- 9
morris- 7.5
jackson- 330k
billingsley- 330k

total= 65mil

+gagne and izzy on IR, comes out to=

78 million.

which would leave like 12 mil or so on bench, bullpen(minus gagne) and mid season trade or to add another SP.

2005-11-30 21:39:00
129.   DaveP
128 - I'd be shocked to see Jackson in the #4 spot, or any spot next year. His fastball is no better than average nowadays.
2005-11-30 21:40:09
130.   MikeB
125. Well, its time to go to plan Z.
Obviously the quality FA's are gone or just not interested in L.A. Furcal is not an impact player. Colletti needs a big score, or like 118 said - a couple of mediocre signings just to get through the season.
I say -
Sign Nomar - what the hell, he's a local boy and may be a candidate for comeback player of the year. They can make a movie out of it later.
Sign Bill Mueller - he's not a bad stopgap, and he did win a batting title not too long ago.
Trade for Abreu or Dunn or some other slugging OF who might be on the market. Offer up a lot of good prospects - not the cream of the crop. Overwhelm them with quantity, not quality.
Take a shot at Millwood or Byrd, but if they don't come over to the Blue Side, then lets see what the youngsters can do. Colletti has experience with this type of gamble from his Frisco Giants days.
Hire a manager who can handle young players, take the heat from the local media as we lose more than we win for a while.
Hope our luck turns a bit from last year.
And, last but not least, remember it could be worse - we could be KC Royals fans.
2005-11-30 21:40:36
131.   regfairfield
Is Werth really so bad that we have to shove Nomar in left?

At this point, we should be trying to get Jason Michaels for as little as possible and bequath him the centerfield job. Philadelphia has pretty much no need for him, and I'd be perfectly willing to sacrifice a second tier prospect for a man with a career .400 on base.

2005-11-30 21:40:44
132.   natepurcell
I'd be shocked to see Jackson in the #4 spot, or any spot next year. His fastball is no better than average nowadays.

thats what i dont understand, in jax and in vegas, the announcers kept giving his fb velocity, and they were consistently saying 93-96.

i think the back spasms zapped his FB velocity towards the end of the year.

or at least, thats what i hope.

2005-11-30 21:41:05
133.   Fallout
If Garciaparra signs with the Dodgers, it will tell you just how much he has fallen.
2005-11-30 21:41:33
134.   natepurcell
Is Werth really so bad that we have to shove Nomar in left?

if werth was fully healthy, i would stick him left but who knows how long his wrist takes to heal.

2005-11-30 21:43:16
135.   Steve
131 -- Exactly. Jerks with actual talents.
2005-11-30 21:45:27
136.   regfairfield
135 The perfect replacement for Bradley.
2005-11-30 22:07:55
137.   LAT
For me, what we decide to do this year is, in part, dictated by next years FA market. If it is going to be materially better, I just assume not sign anybody this year.

I'm not sure Giles ever planned to leave SD. A couple of years ago Giles and his wife built a huge brand new house in a high end development in Poway called the Heritage Estates which sits on Maderas Country Club. Last Year he comes home and announces that he has fallen in love with another woman. (Turns out the woman is some baseball groupie/stripper or something (can you say Anna Benson)). Giles and his wife had two small kids, both under 5. Instead of moving away, Giles gives his wife the house and a lot of $$,$$$,$$$ and rather than moving away buys a new house in the same development. I'm just not sure he ever planned on leaving SD.

2005-11-30 22:10:31
138.   Steve
137 -- Ye Gods.
2005-11-30 22:16:01
139.   Bob Timmermann
Colletti should have gotten Carolyn Hughes or Alyssa Milano for some recruiting.
2005-11-30 22:16:38
140.   Andrew Shimmin
Y'all are falling down on the job, two examples-

82- Watch the potty-mouth, mister.

Example number two- nobody seems to realize that Juan Encarnacion is still available! He'll be 30 on opening day, so I'm thinking a seven year, fifty million dollar contract would wrap him up, nice and tight. Outfield set.

2005-11-30 22:18:29
141.   das411
137 - But what happened to Giles playing grab-ass with Jeff Kent in the locker room?

Geez, we NEVER heard about this stuff when Giles was stuck on the Pirates. I can only imagine what Jason Bay might be up to!

2005-11-30 22:20:04
142.   Steve
140 -- I didn't see him utter the words Pierre or Furcal once.
2005-11-30 22:21:37
143.   molokai
I wonder how that rates on the Plashcke meter?
2005-11-30 22:25:04
144.   Bob Timmermann
Plaschke is too wrapped up in writing about an old guy who has gone to a lot of USC football games in a row. He's sort of a poor man's Irving Zeiger.

The guy gets in free because he was on the track team at USC a long time ago.

According to Plaschke, UCLA has systematically gone out and killed every former UCLA athlete over the age of 60 and made them into Soylent Blue and Gold.

2005-11-30 22:27:28
145.   LAT
Other Giles notable: his wife was the brains behind the operation. Before an interview she would get the questions he was going to be asked, write out the responses and practice with him. She would make him get it right three times before he could proceed with the interview.

I'm sure this stuff goes on all the time and we don't hear about it.

2005-11-30 22:27:57
146.   molokai
I think a new show called "Playing Ball" about baseball players ex-wives and how they cope with their husbands being targets for the hottest groupies in each town would be a perfect fit for HBO. Got to be plenty of ex-wife's with stories to tell that would titillate the masses .
2005-11-30 22:33:25
147.   LAT
146. Perfect for Fox. Its the kind of stuff they run and they probably have a bunch of footage from their Dodger days.
2005-11-30 22:34:11
148.   natepurcell
whats everyones thoughts on milwood?

i dont think i trust him to stay healthy. Although if he is healthy, hes a solid #2.

2005-11-30 22:37:51
149.   LAT
i dont think i trust him to stay healthy

In that case, he should fit right in with the Dodgers.

2005-11-30 22:38:55
150.   natepurcell
what channel is espn deportes?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-30 22:40:28
151.   werthgagne31
I would want millwood, but since giles is off the market, we have no chance at a world series, so to heck with signing anyone, just play the prospects in our holes (guzman ss, laroche 3b, billingsley sp, jackson/houlton/orenduff sp, martin joining navarro c).

Keep bradley, trade kent, play ayrar,perez,young,robles at 2b.

Forget about 2006, give the youngsters experience for 2007.

2005-11-30 22:41:46
152.   natepurcell
looking over the tv schedule for espn deportes, it seems that licey is the star team and they only show licey and whoever licey is playing.
2005-11-30 22:41:49
153.   Bob Timmermann
Depends if your cable company carries it. Not all of them do.

You can use this very slow moving website to inquire if anyone in your area carries it.

Use the box on the side.

Helps to be able to read Spanish.

2005-11-30 22:42:39
154.   natepurcell
if you promote our positional prospects now, i think they will fail.

they need a year of AAA pitching.

2005-11-30 22:44:37
155.   Uncle Miltie
I seem to remember Jason Michaels punching a bouncer in the face at a night club. I think that's what happened. I know that he loves to go to bars in the Philly. He and Furcal would probably become best friends.
2005-11-30 22:44:54
156.   natepurcell
if it makes it easier, does cox digital cable carry it or direct tv? if so, anyone know the channels they are on for each carrier?
2005-11-30 22:46:38
157.   natepurcell
Liga Dominicana de Béisbol
Estrellas de Oriente vs. Tigres del Licey
Estadio Quisqueya Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic 2:30 am to
4:30 am

nice, thats tonight

2005-11-30 22:51:08
158.   Bob Timmermann
En mi ciudad, no puedo mirar ESPN Deportes. Time/Warner no ofrecen este canal. Normalmente tiene que pagar extra para obtener aceso a este canal. Probablamente va a pagar por otras canales españoles.
2005-11-30 22:53:39
159.   natepurcell
yesss. found it. 438 on cox digital cable.

woohooo, im going to be watching some dominican baseball tonight.

its probably a replay of earlier today im assuming.

2005-11-30 22:57:42
160.   King of the Hobos
Michaels isn't much of a good character, as nice as he would be

As for Millwood, like I said earlier, I don't want to pay for him. Boras will keep him until Burnett signs, then release his 500 page pamphlet proving why Millwood is better than ARod, and thus deserves more money. We should just stay away from Boras (except for Hochevar), which includes Travis Lee, although for different reasons

2005-11-30 22:59:10
161.   Shmueli4
We need offense with power. It seems that we need to fill it in a corner outfield spot (rather than 3rd). If we are going to trade any of our kids, lets make a splash - a splash that will one-up Arte over in the OC. I do not want our key off season acquisition to be Kwame Brown-esque. I say we go after the best available outfield hitter. Albert and Vlad are going nowhere - that leaves only one ---- MANNY! MANNY! MANNY! Flanders, get it done!
2005-11-30 23:01:18
162.   Bob Timmermann

ESPN Deportes es una parte esencial de tu sistema de television cable digital? Que bueno!

2005-11-30 23:02:58
163.   Mark
145 Please tell me you're joking. Please. That sounds so impossibly ridiculous, it can't be true... can it?
2005-11-30 23:04:42
164.   Bob Timmermann
Sounds plausible to me. I doubt that Brian Giles was part of CSF in high school.
2005-11-30 23:04:44
165.   natepurcell
i would rather trade for abreu than manny.
2005-11-30 23:08:12
166.   Shmueli4
In all seriousness, the hitting prowess of Manny in unmatched. Sure he is wacky and cant play much defense, but I still think he would make the whole lineup run. Furthermore, his quirkiness is perfect of LA, with teh other defenders in center and Right we can afford a drop off in Left. If you stick Manny as a #4 hitter behind JD and in front of Kent with all the other filler --- wheeewwwweeee
2005-11-30 23:11:00
167.   LAT
163. Not joking. My brother dated Giles ex-wife for a few months and they are still friends. Told me the story this Thanksgiving. Funniest part is my brother hates (with a captial "H") baseball and doesn't follow it. When i told him Giles turned down $30/3 he was shocked he made that kind of dough.
2005-11-30 23:18:35
168.   regfairfield
166 Problem is he shatters the payroll for years to come.
2005-11-30 23:18:47
169.   FirstMohican
Why couldn't we pay more than SD for Giles(assuming he would've left SD)?

Why would Manny want to come to LA (D not A)?

2005-11-30 23:21:06
170.   Eric L
169 Those of us with satellite systems don't seem to get the same consideration as digital cable subscribers.. boo!
2005-11-30 23:22:16
171.   Steve
163 -- These guys are, after all, the guys who get old and become managers.
2005-11-30 23:25:03
172.   King of the Hobos
Well, looks like an old rumor could be gaining some steam

"The Rays continue to field calls from about a dozen teams with interest in speedy outfielder Joey Gathright, with the Dodgers and Marlins (who are loaded with prospects and likely to dump Juan Pierre) thought to be among the most aggressive." -St Petersburg Times

2005-11-30 23:32:01
173.   werthgagne31
Gathright had 1 home run in 4 years 1,221 at bats in the minors.

What is going on, why would we be interested in that.

2005-11-30 23:34:05
174.   Bob Timmermann
We want Gathright because he's younger than Jason Tyner.
2005-11-30 23:36:38
175.   King of the Hobos
Because homers aren't the only important thing. Gathright did a decent job of walking in the minors and has speed. He's a slight step up from Pierre, but he's still hardly what the Dodgers need. But Colletti seems hellbent on getting a leadoff hitter. I wouldn't mind Wilkerson or Michaels personally, but they aren't the stereotypical leadoff guys that I'm sure Colletti wants. And if you couldn't tell, I do not endorse trading for Gathright whatsoever
2005-11-30 23:39:19
176.   werthgagne31
Sounds like we got a bad GM.
2005-11-30 23:41:23
177.   Bob Timmermann
Does sound like Colletti is obsessed with obtaining the "prototypical" leadoff man.

Unfortunately, Rickey is too old to be effective.

Haven't most GMs realized that the out-making, banjo hitting speedster as a leadoff man died out when Gary Pettis retired?

2005-11-30 23:54:53
178.   regfairfield
177 Considering that Jose Reyes is still hitting leadoff, I'm going to say no.
2005-11-30 23:56:58
179.   natepurcell
if the marlins are still selling and colletti still wants a lefty reliever, villone is probably on the market..
2005-12-01 00:07:24
180.   natepurcell
this was our offer to giles courtesy of henson:

Giles, a San Diego native, accepted a three-year, $30-million contract from the Padres, who two weeks ago said their best offer was $4.5 million less than that. The Dodgers offered $34.5 million over three years, with a $2.5-million buyout and a club option for a fourth year at an additional $11 million.

2005-12-01 00:11:00
181.   natepurcell
so including the buyout, we basically offered giles 3 yrs 37 mil or 12.3 mil a yr.

with the 4th yr, it would have been 4yrs 45.5 mil, or 11.375 per year.

not cheap by any means.

2005-12-01 00:20:21
182.   regfairfield
That makes me feel better. Absolutely nothing we could have done.
2005-12-01 00:26:59
183.   natepurcell

If Furcal goes to the Cubs or back to the Braves, the Dodgers are also expected to have serious interest in Lugo, who has a one-year, $4.95-million contract. From the Dodgers' deep farm system, the Rays likely would be interested in catcher Russ Martin, third baseman Andy LaRoche or pitcher Chad Billingsley

2005-12-01 00:43:20
184.   slackfarmer
183 I wouldn't mind Lugo, as long as we don't have to give up too much. Maybe Colletti could get him for a nice collection of mediocre pitching prospects. Too bad Gomes isn't available. He would slip nicely right into the OF.
2005-12-01 01:05:37
185.   regfairfield
So with all this shortstop talk, what do you think Ned plans to do with Izturis?
2005-12-01 01:28:16
186.   GoBears
so including the buyout, we basically offered giles 3 yrs 37 mil or 12.3 mil a yr. with the 4th yr, it would have been 4yrs 45.5 mil, or 11.375 per year.

No nate, that can't be right. Because werthgagne31 has already assured us that the McCourts will allow no offers larger than $9m per. So there.

I'm still optimistic about Colletti. To my mind, he has yet to make an actual mistake. Rumors about Gathright and Pierre and Furcal worry me a bit, but they're just rumors. And the one offer we think we know about, to Giles, was aggressive, but apparently pointless. The non-offers to Delgado, Thome, Beckett, et al. make me happy.

I am still hoping for some combination of Nomar or Lugo, a Millwood-type, and a trade for one of Cincy's extra OFers (Dunn, Pena, Kearns). A trade for Abreu would be better, but would cost more.

2005-12-01 02:31:05
187.   werthgagne31
Its just a hunch i have about mccourt.
Just like i think the supposive deal we made to giles is a PR stunt by mccourt.
2005-12-01 02:49:49
188.   GoBears
187. Based on what? Yeah, we know McCourt is rumored to be a cheapskate. But why automatically assume that anything that contradicts your predispositions must be an elaborate ruse designed to fool you? That's paranoid conspiracy-theory stuff. There is a report that the Dodgers made that offer. It's not false just because it'd be surprising if true. How can a useful conversation take place with wild-hair conspiracy theories introduced as though they're supposed to be taken seriously?

Back when Erickson was getting way too much work, and hanging around on the roster too long, some among us joked that he must have compromising pictures of DePo or some such. But it was intended and understood to be a joke. If anyone had actually started spouting such speculations as though they were even remotely possible, others would have been justified in (respectfully) laughing him out of the room.

The simpler explanation is that Giles didn't want to leave SD, as long as they made him a reasonable offer, relative to the others he was receiving. They came through, and he gave them the hometown discount. It's absurd to assume shenanigans on the part of the Dodger owner. Absurdities belong somewhere else.

2005-12-01 06:10:51
189.   oldbear
I like Furcal but I'd take Julio Lugo also. I think Colletti wants a shortstop because he realizes its the weakest position in our entire organization. Izturis sucks. Even Colletti knows it. Outside of Guzman who many not even play SS, we've got no one in the system that will play SS at the MLB level in the next 3 years.

I'd trade Loney for Lugo straight up.
I'd trade Navarro for Lugo straight up.

Lugo is a good player. And if Lugo comes here, then they cant use the 'bad citizen' excuse to get rid of Milton Bradley. Because Lugo is as bad (wife beater) as they come.

2005-12-01 06:39:45
190.   TerryAustin
At this point, Nomar seems the best pursuit for SS/3B in '06. And then he shifts to 2B in '07, maybe?

Regarding Millwood: It might not be a bad idea. I recall reading somewhere (it wasn't the Times, but it might've been Bob Nightengale) that Millwood enjoys working under short-term (1-2 years) contracts because it keeps him motivated and allows him to test free agency frequently. If he's willing to come for a short-term deal, he would be a suitable replacement for Weaver.

2005-12-01 07:32:27
191.   King of the Hobos
Hector Carrasco is close to signing with a West Coast team, likely the Dodges, Giants, or Padres. He could be an interesting option for the rotation (albeit an unreliable one)

Morris wants to stay in the NL

KC is trying to sign Brian Anderson to a minor league deal (I liked him as a minor league free agent, sorry if this is largely irrelevant). Baird also said he's looking to trade the #1 pick in the Rule 5. Cubs prospets Brownlie and Sing look interesting, but aren't worth trading up for

Also, with Tampa's OF depth, I think they could be persuaded to trade Gomes. It would probably take an upper tier pitching prospect though

2005-12-01 07:34:46
192.   SMY
Nomar is a good possibility. There doesn't seem to be a huge market for his services so he'll probably come fairly cheap. Plus he seems willing to change positions, and you also have the "local boy returns" angle for the Plaschkes of the world.

I'd still rather have had Giles, but what can you do. I'd much rather have Nomar than the Pierres and Gathrights (why?!) of the world.

2005-12-01 08:02:39
193.   blue22
I dunno, I've seen Nomar's name in more places that I had expected. I'd assume it would take a 2 year deal now to attract him, most likely in the $15M range.

With Giles gone, Ned may have to get creative with the rest of the offseason. Signing Giles and a 4th starter could've been a nice tidy little offseason. Now he still needs a bat and a pitcher, not to mention make a move with Milton. For some reason LA seems to be spending an inordinate amount of time courting shortstops though.

2005-12-01 08:06:36
194.   molokai
Just food for thought when discounting Furcal so easily.
2005-12-01 08:09:27
195.   SMY
I don't think even 2 years, $15M would be the end of the world. I mean, if they're intent on signing free agents and using that money I'd rather have 2 years of Nomar than 4 or 5 years of Furcal or any years of Jacque Jones et al. I wouldn't go overboard on Nomar but I think he'd be a pretty good fit if the price is right, given the alternatives.
2005-12-01 08:09:34
196.   Johnson
Hector Carrasco is 36, has started a grand total of 6 games in his career, and has pitched 126.2 innings in the last four years, missing two complete seasons. I can't see him as anything but bullpen help from the right side, which we don't really need. If the Giants or Padres sign him to be in their rotation, I will be seeing pink bunnies all day long. If we do...ugh.
2005-12-01 08:18:39
197.   Sushirabbit
I don't believe for a minute that the McCourts will want to pay the money needed to get Furcal.
2005-12-01 08:21:48
198.   gvette
110-- Not that the McCourts aren't arrogant, clueless,and deserving of a warranted bashing in the paper; BUT

Simers' Tommy Hawkins piece really stretches credibility, while embracing the revisionist history and nostalgia that former Peter O'Malley employees seem so fond of;

1)How can Hawkins complain that the McCourts bring in people with no baseball background when he had none when hired in the uproar following the Al Campanis debacle?

2)O'Malley may have been swell to his employees, but under his guidance, the franchise became stagnant, and fell into a ten year decline leading to his decision to bail out to Fox.

Not to knock Tommy Hawkins, a very nice man (his son was a few years behind me in high school), who's been a fixture on the LA sports scene since his time with the Lakers forty years ago. But, as with Fred Claire's attempts to give unsolicited advice, 1988 was a long time ago.

2005-12-01 08:25:34
199.   blue22
197 - You make it sound like that is a bad thing.

Lugo would be a good fit, though it's cute the way they are asking for Canada Russ, Billingsley, or LaRoche for either Lugo or Gathwright. No thanks.

Give me Nomar, try to work a trade for Abreu, or at least Jason Michaels, and see what Beane is asking in return for Zito. I wonder if Milton/Aybar/(Orenduff or Tiffany) would get it done for Zito? Maybe Broxton has to go.

2005-12-01 08:31:50
200.   SMY
We already have a Gathright. His name is Jason Repko. Why waste time and prospects on getting another one, in a pointless attempt to have a "true" leadoff man, which Gathright isn't anyway (except in the fast-guy-who-doesn't-get-on-base sense)? Being linked to him (and Pierre) is more distressing to me than anything else. Hopefully it's just media overstatement.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-12-01 08:41:01
201.   MikeB
199. If you're wondering about the availability of Zito - well so are the folks in No-Cal
2005-12-01 08:58:49
202.   LAT
I know I am the one who said Giles really never wanted to leave SD and in his case I believe that was the determining factor, but I also have to wonder whether he or anyone else wants to play for the Dodgers. Don't get me wrong, I know its about the money; offer someone enough money and they will come to LA. But if all offers are roughly equal why would a big name want to come to LA, an organization in disaray. If this is true, it means the Dodgers have to overpay to get a player who is also being pursued by better organizations. If you believe Frank is Mr. McCheap, it is unlikely he will pay the premium necessary to get a big name to come to LA. If any of this is true, it does not bode well for being competitive in the FA market.
2005-12-01 09:09:08
203.   Steve
202 -- and now, even untalented players don't want to play for us, because their champion went to Pittsburgh.
2005-12-01 09:11:44
204.   underdog
What do you guys think of us maybe going after Reggie Sanders? He's played in more cities than a touring stand-up comic, but has done really well prety much everywhere. I always find it strange that whatever the last team he's played for doesn't re-sign him, it's always these one year contracts. He's no Giles, but nor is he going to come overpriced and over-termed like Johnny Damon.

For reasonably priced outfield depth, Dodgers could do much worse. Plus Colletti knows him, I'd imagine, since the Giants were one of the many teams he played for.

2005-12-01 09:18:11
205.   Bob Timmermann
Reggie Sanders is the only player who was on my list who worked his way off of it.

Sanders wife is from Southern California. She went to high school in the San Fernando Valley and later moved to the San Diego area which is where he met her during his itinerant career.

2005-12-01 09:19:33
206.   SMY
I'd be all right with Sanders.
2005-12-01 09:22:22
207.   blue22
204 - Sanders made $4M last year. Kind of pricey for "depth". I wouldn't even automatically expect him to outproduce or bench Werth, Cruz, or Milton (if retained).
2005-12-01 09:35:32
208.   dzzrtRatt
205 Reggie Sanders is the only player who was on my list who worked his way off of it.

How come? Did he spend too much time when he was supposed to be working surfing the 'net?

207 I must be in an alternative universe. We're supposed to be disappointed that we didn't win the right to pay Brian Giles $11.5 million/year, but we don't want to squander $4 million on Reggie Sanders. Aren't they pretty much the same player?

2005-12-01 09:44:28
209.   dzzrtRatt
208 I guess not exactly. Sanders is 3 years older. But they're in the same general area:

Sanders: .271/.340/.546/.886
21 homers in only 93 games.

Giles: .301/.423/.483/.905
15 homers in 158 games.

Yes, Giles gets more walks and strikes out less. For that, he should get $7 million more/year?

2005-12-01 09:45:33
210.   Bob Timmermann
*Reggie Sanders is the only player who was on my list who worked his way off of it.

How come? Did he spend too much time when he was supposed to be working surfing the 'net?*

That could be a good reason, but I disliked him because when he was younger he went and started a fight with Pedro Martinez after getting hit by a pitch when Pedro had a PERFECT GAME going.

Sanders said recently that when he looked back at that, he realized that he was young and stupid and was embarrassed.

2005-12-01 09:47:26
211.   RELX
You know, I am actually fine with not signing Giles--$11 million a year for 15HRS? I have never cared much about baseball salaries because I don't pay them, but these teams jump all over themselves trying to sign good but not great players to exhorbitant contracts. I mean, Brian Giles is ok, but for $11 million a year? As teams like Atlanta and Oakland have proven over and over again, guys like this can be found easily and cheaply. I would much rather the Dodgers patch a few holes with guys like Sanders and then try to plug in some of the youngsters over the next year or two. We are not winning the World Series this year whether or not we signed Giles--or Furcal--so why not go for the long-term?

I would also trade Kent, perhaps to the Mets--they need a 2B, and they have attractive pieces like Victor Diaz and Aaron Heilman. If the Mets don't get Manny R, I think Kent would be a good fit. Heck, I would even take back Matsui from them, provided they paid some of his contract--he has been a bust in NY, but his contact is up after this year so it wouldn't be a big gamble on our part.

2005-12-01 09:51:34
212.   blue22
208 - I had thought that a more realistic Sanders comparison should be Jayson Werth.

Sanders did OPS .886 last year, however he just turned 38 today.

Werth OPS'd .824 in 2004, and if the wrist injury is to blame for 2005, I'd expect a bounce back in 2006.

2005-12-01 10:19:00
213.   dzzrtRatt
212 I don't know if Werth's injury is going to heal fully, though. He's a question mark until well into next season. Nice to think he could come back, though.
2005-12-01 10:23:04
214.   molokai
Should be easy to outproduce Werth since he won't be playing for a while. At this point our outfield is:

JD Drew - rehabbing multiple surgeries. Might be ready by ST but history shows he's a slow healer so we should not be surprised if he is not ready by the start of the season.

Milton Bradley - even if he stays, his rehab sounds like it is going to continue through spring training and possibly the start of the season. Plus we all know he is not staying no matter how long we threaten to hold our breath until we pass out.

Jason Werth - 5 month rehab, 2nd wrist surgery, forget about it. Werth again has screwed the pot through no fault of his own but we can't wait to see if the power ever returns. He should play in AAA until he shows that he's ready to hit this time instead of giving us useless at bats.

Jose Cruz - at the moment is healthy, missed some time last year with a bad back and according to him was not healthy until mid-July.

R Ledee - Reminded me of Dave Roberts in that every time he started he looked like he was ready to blow the hamstring apart.

J Repko - figures the worse player of the lot is the one ready to play right now.

D Young - is he even in the picture. Only Royster has said anything about him moving to the outfield. Other then that we don't hear a peap about him.

Colletti must be looking at that and cringing. Reggie Sanders sure looks good to me.

I'm hoping for a trade for someone big like Dunn/Abreu or something smaller like C Wilson/Mench/Kearns but wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with C Patterson or Wily Mo. If no trades are made we will probably get a one year stop gap of Lawton/Lofton/T Long. The stop gaps aren't pretty but none of those names would surprise me if we signed them.

2005-12-01 10:29:02
215.   Bob Timmermann
Is screwing the pot different from screwing the pooch?
2005-12-01 10:33:17
216.   blue22
215 - More socially accepted.
2005-12-01 10:41:48
217.   molokai
From BA chat yesterday:
Brad (Albuquerque): Who has the strongest farm system right now?

SportsNation Jim Callis: The Dodgers. Not only are they the strongest, but they also have a good balance of hitting and pitching, plus guys ready to contribute in the next year or so and a second wave for a little further down the road.

2005-12-01 10:43:04
218.   molokai
It was a flashback to my high school days.
2005-12-01 10:45:05
219.   Bob Timmermann
OK, I just picked up the other phrase involving the dogs back in my days as a test pilot at Edwards.
2005-12-01 10:51:15
220.   molokai
The cockpits were big enough for you?
2005-12-01 10:53:58
221.   Bob Timmermann
I washed out after I crashed the little plane on the Microsoft Flight simulator into the Sears Tower over and over again.
2005-12-01 10:54:51
222.   underdog
Jim Callis for manager!

Anyway, yeah, that was kind of my point with Sanders - when I said "depth" I didn't mean backup OF, I would picture him starting. With Werth still recovering and hard to count on, with Bradley's status unknown and dubious, Sanders is a really consistently solid player. I don't think we'd overpay for him at that rate for one year (which seems to be his modus operandi). We lost Giles. He was a good player. San Diego overpaid for him. Best of luck to them but now we need to move on, short of a big trade for the aforementioned Abreu or whoever.

(Btw, I'm sure this has been asked before but is that Abreu related to the Tony Abreu in the Dodgers' system?)

2005-12-01 11:00:46
223.   molokai
No he's not.

Abreu can play SS not just 2nd and has a great arm.

2005-12-01 11:07:44
224.   molokai
Jim Callis reminds me of Joshua Malina who played the stat geek on "Sports Night" and then moved to the "West Wing" and replaced the Rob Lowe character.
2005-12-01 11:08:06
225.   Fallout
202. LAT

...I also have to wonder whether he or anyone else wants to play for the Dodgers.

That is my take. Who would want to play for the McCourts? If a player has another choice, he's going somewhere else.

Let me see...

Do I want to play for a team that has fired 2 GMs in the past 2 yrs and is on the 3rd.

Has no manager or coaching staff.

Needs at least 3 additional position players.

Pitching needs include both starters and relivers.

Lost 91 games last year.

The owners are the McCourts.

2005-12-01 11:10:52
226.   Bob Timmermann
Yeah, but Ned Colletti can tell who is going to be a good player by just watching him and seeing how he carries himself. You've got to appreciate working for someone like that.
2005-12-01 11:13:43
227.   bigcpa
The Red Sox are negotiating a Ramirez for Abreu swap. They've targeting Adam Dunn as well. Funny how the Red Sox never seem to be mentioned in the Gathright/Pierre sweepstakes.
2005-12-01 11:14:40
228.   blue22
225 - That's one real disconcerting takeaway from the Giles signing - that he was willing to take significantly less to stay with the Padres (even though he has no real loyalty to the team, just a preference for the "area"). The Dodgers aggressively offered more money and a ballpark that wouldn't completely suck the life out of his power production, all while staying in the same area. This doesn't exactly come off well for the McCourts or the Dodgers.
2005-12-01 11:17:57
229.   dzzrtRatt
Does Colletti do a lot of scouting over at the Police Academy, or down at the Marines' training facilities? Those fellows carry themselves famously.
2005-12-01 11:20:09
230.   blue22
227 - Per Jayson Stark:

"The deal was proposed by the Red Sox but quickly shot down, the official said, for several reasons. The primary reason is that the Phillies have been telling teams they are only interested in trading Abreu for top-of-the-rotation starting pitching. The second is that there is a major money imbalance. Ramirez has $57 million coming over the next three years. Abreu has two years, $30 million left on his deal. Both players can veto any trades."

The Phils asking price for Abreu seems to be significantly higher that what has been floated around here.

2005-12-01 11:21:20
231.   SMY
227 I guess if they got both, that would spell the end of Trot Nixon (unless Dunn plays first), but if they only got Abreu I wonder if they stick him in LF or move Trot over there. Or get rid of Trot anyway and get someone else to play LF.
2005-12-01 11:21:27
232.   Vishal
why on earth would the phillies trade abreu for manny? that makes no sense.

we should be in on the abreu and dunn discussions. i'd trade an "untouchable" for either of those guys. but only of one of them, mind you.

2005-12-01 11:22:03
233.   SMY
Never mind. Unless the Phils are lying.
2005-12-01 11:25:12
234.   blue22
232 - In an even swap, you'd rather have Abreu?
2005-12-01 11:25:26
235.   dzzrtRatt
228 "significantly" is a stretch. And for a Poway resident, downtown LA is not in your backyard. I think Giles wanted to stay with the Padres, period, and was only using the other teams to get the Padres to be serious in the money they offered him.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Dodgers real interest in Giles was in setting the price tag higher for the Padres. That's a Brian Cashman trick, and Kim Ng must've learned it.

This also probably means Trevor Hoffman is cut loose. Colletti might've figured that would be another outcome of a fat Giles contract. Ramon Hernandez also. This is still likely to be a brutal off-season for the Padres.

2005-12-01 11:27:25
236.   bigcpa
235 It would have been a much better trick to sign Giles and force the Padres to sign Jacque Jones!
2005-12-01 11:39:07
237.   Rob M
210 I was watching that game. Pedro took a perfect game into the 10th, and hit Reggie Sanders leading off that inning. I was shocked when Sanders charged the mound. I think the next batter got a base hit.

Pedro is the only guy beside Harvey Haddix to take a perfect game into extra innings, though he didn't record an out in the 10th.

2005-12-01 11:43:05
238.   Bob Timmermann
That was a different game. That one was in San Diego. This was a year or two earlier in Montreal against the Reds. I think the game was in the 8th. Retrosheet's server is very slow today so I want everyone to take it on faith that I'm right!
2005-12-01 11:55:28
239.   underdog
What do you guys think of Reggie Smith? Should we re-sign him? And Joe Ferguson can still be our backup catcher. And maybe we can trade for Tug McGraw. *

*[This is a rerun from 1978 edition of this blog.]

2005-12-01 11:57:15
240.   Bob Timmermann
I have my doubts about Tug McGraw's health for the upcoming season? Something tells me he's lost a bit off of the bite on his screwball.

He's pitching almost entirely submarine style now from where he's working out.

2005-12-01 11:58:54
241.   Rob M
238 Hmmm...I coulda sworn...

I'll wait to see the evidence, but I have found that my memory has taken to compressing and conflating events. I think it's a bug in my compression software.

2005-12-01 11:59:40
242.   Rob M
240 That's cold.
2005-12-01 12:00:55
243.   dzzrtRatt
If it weren't for Tug McGraw, we wouldn't have: "I like it, I love it, I want some more of it, I try so hard, I can't rise above it."
2005-12-01 12:03:20
244.   Bob Timmermann
Here we go:

AP account of June 3, 1995 game between Montreal and San Diego at Qualcomm:

Pedro Martinez is approaching perfection, but he needs a little more support from his Montreal Expo teammates.

Martinez pitched nine perfect innings Saturday night, but his bid for a perfect game ended when Bip Roberts led off the bottom of the 10th with a double to right field in the Expos' 1-0 victory in San Diego Jack Murphy Stadium.

AP account of April 13, 1994 game between Montreal and Cincinnati at Stade Olympique:

Reggie Sanders wasn't happy when Pedro Martinez pitched him inside twice earlier in the game, resulting in two strikeouts.

So, when Martinez tried it a third time and plunked Sanders on the elbow, the Cincinnati Red outfielder charged the mound, triggering your typical bench-clearing incident.

Only this time, Sanders charged the mound to attack a pitcher five outs from throwing a perfect game.

"I don't think there is any (way) a pitcher throwing a perfect game is going to hit somebody on purpose," Montreal Manager Felipe Alou said after a strange, 3-2 victory over the Reds.

"It was just a normal day," said Martinez, who lost the no-hitter in the ninth.

"It feels really good, but it still hasn't sunken in yet," Martinez said. "With the way the game went, I'm just happy that we won the game."

2005-12-01 12:05:10
245.   Bob Timmermann
Tim McGraw narrating the halftime highlights on MNF wakes me weep.
2005-12-01 12:06:50
246.   Rob M
Those two stories were stored much more efficiently in my memory as one game. Now I have to totally reorganize in there.
2005-12-01 12:19:48
247.   underdog
Eek, I totally forgot about poor Tug's fatal bout of cancer, poor guy. I should've picked another "old-timer" for my "rerun"...

Maybe we can trade for...Doyle Alexander. He can finish his brief career with the team that first signed him.*

2005-12-01 12:21:42
248.   das411
Didn't Gerald "Why am I still in the league??" Williams break up a Pedro perfect game and then make a run on him also?

I am thinking sometime...2001-2002ish, game was down in Tampa, the NY media made a big deal out of it this summer when Williams dropped that fly ball to cost Pedro ANOTHER no-no...

2005-12-01 12:24:16
249.   Blu2
I've been reading comments here for a week or so and I have learned a lot, some I agree with, some I don't, but that's how it goes.Nobody has kicked in the name of Jeromy Burnitz; does he have a bad rep or something? We could get Burnitz for 7 mill a year, Nomar for 7 to 8. That maybe gives us 50 homers and two adequate defensive players, and leaves 4 mill for another player or relief help, and trading stock for a starter. What do you think?
2005-12-01 12:25:37
250.   Bob Timmermann

That could have happened in any of several contentious Red Sox-Devil Rays games. There was one where about a half dozen D-Rays got tossed.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-12-01 12:31:08
251.   dsfan
In so many scenarios, the LAD appear to lack leverage.

Getting a Giles or a Furcal or a Nomar would have required or will require a hefty overpay.

Why not at least apply what leverage you have to the marketplace and see what you can get in return?

Two examples:

Shop Gagne. The Indians, Phillies, Orioles, Braves and perhaps Boston are hungry for a closer. Maybe you get someone to overpay. With Gagne's medical risks, now is the time.

Shop Kent. The Angels just struck out on Konerko. What would they give up for Kent? Ask for Kotchman and Wood. The Red Sox, Orioles and a few others might be willing to overpay for Kent.

If you don't get the right deal, you've lost nothing.

Do the right deal(s) and you'll get ripped for trading away a popular veteran, but their values might never be higher and this team isn't close to winning a World Series in 2006.

Maximize your leverage and good things will follow.

2005-12-01 12:33:19
252.   TheDictator
Here's an idea,

Trade Broxton, Miller, and Jackson for Adam Dunn. Then sign Dunn to a 6 year contract.

2005-12-01 12:37:27
253.   TheDictator
251 As for trading leverage. How really thinks that Kent will last all of next season with the Dodgers. They will trade him and Gagne when their leverage is really high - the trade deadline.
2005-12-01 12:38:31
254.   TheDictator
OK "how" should have been "Who"

I must have the i-d-10-t virus.

2005-12-01 12:43:13
255.   regfairfield
Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if we could take every young player on the Mets, save Reyes and Wright, for Kent.
2005-12-01 12:46:25
256.   Jeromy
The only player I would consider trading Kent to the Mets for would be Wright. You have to get offensive production from someone this year! Wright is a stud 3B. However, he would block the corner talent in the farm system.
2005-12-01 12:47:51
257.   regfairfield
You wouldn't take Milledge and/or Heilman?
2005-12-01 12:48:06
258.   Eric L
253 I'm thinking that trading Kent might be a good idea right about now. It's not that I want to see him go, but unless the team upgrades to win the division*, I would rather a short-timer like Kent go.

I really don't think the Dodgers are in the position right now to start dealing off prospects for pieces to make a winner.

* Even winning the division isn't all that great except for the crapshoot aspect of the playoffs. It might look pretty to the general fan base and Plaschke, but if you have to mortgage the future for something relatively meaningless, no thanks.

2005-12-01 12:49:18
259.   Eric L
256 If something like that happened, please let Wright block all the talent in the system that he pleases. The dude is going to turn into something special.
2005-12-01 12:51:01
260.   das411
Jeromy, I think Nate would like to introduce you to a kid named Lastings Milledge...
2005-12-01 12:52:26
261.   trainwreck
If only the Phillies considered Odalis Perez or even Lowe a front of the rotation starter, we could get Abreu.
2005-12-01 12:59:17
262.   Rob M
259 Indeed. Throw Laroche into that deal. Kent plus Laroche for Wright. No problems here. And Laroche won't be blocked.
2005-12-01 13:00:33
263.   D4P
Regarding trading Kent: unless he has completely changed his mind, there would still appear to be a good chance that he will ask to be traded, given that Flanders has yet to improve the roster and may not succeed in doing so enough to convince Kent that the team has a legitimate chance at a championship.
2005-12-01 13:02:48
264.   regfairfield
262 As amazingly short sighted as the Mets are, Wright should still pretty much be the most untouchable player in baseball.
2005-12-01 13:06:58
265.   blue22
264 - I'd throw Miguel Cabrera into that category as well, though you never know with those crazy Marlins! Luis Castillo is now rumored to be on his way out (to Minnesota), with LoDuca close behind. LoDuca is either on his way back to the NL West (Col, SD, or AZ) or to the Mets.
2005-12-01 13:08:15
266.   blue22
265 - Link:
2005-12-01 13:08:29
267.   razzle nugent
Believe it or not, I'd say there's a good chance that Philly would consider Derek Lowe a front of the rotation starter.

Based on 2005 ERA+ (which is park adjusted), Lowe would have been the #1 or #2 starter for ten of sixteen NL teams:

San Diego
San Fran

2005-12-01 13:11:04
268.   King of the Hobos
249 His first tour with the Dodger really turned the fans against him. And that's a little too much money I would think
2005-12-01 13:13:58
269.   MikeB
Based on a casual review of comments made on this site over the past few days ...

Bad Moves For Colletti to Make
Signing Furcal - too expensive, character issues?
Signing Damon - way too expensive, long-term contract, declining power
Naming Jim Fregosi as manager - are there any positives?

Good Moves For Colleti to Make
Stay away from the remainder of the FA pool unless you can get someone like Nomar or Mueller to sign for a reasonable salary (probably heavy on incentives) for a short term
Look for trades to upgrade the weak spots in the lineup, but don't give away the "farm" - unless we're talking about an true impact player like Manny, Dunn, Abreu, others???
Try to upgrade the pitching staff - just don't overpay or give away Billingsley
Sign a manager with some MLB manager/coaching experience who can handle a young club, and keep smiling while the MSM (e.g. Worm Tongue Plaschke) inserts large sharp objects into his back
Put Choi at 1b and see what happens - at this point Hee Seop is healthy, young, inexpensive, hits HR's, takes a walk occassionally and smiles a lot. What's not to like?
Daily prayer...

2005-12-01 13:15:54
270.   regfairfield
268 Agreed, while the slugging is there (in a 2004 Jayson Werth sort of way) his on base percentage last year was .322. Corner outfielders with an on base of .322 better do something else, especially for seven million. (Though he does play surprisingly decent defense.)
2005-12-01 13:21:42
271.   Vishal
[234] yes, i'd rather have abreu.
2005-12-01 13:21:59
272.   King of the Hobos
Anyone interested in the Rule 5, here's a good list of eligible players:

The Dodgers have the most on the list, although none are much of a loss. And Marshal Looney was released according to BA, although there's no chance he's taken if he wasn't

2005-12-01 13:25:34
273.   das411
267 - Don't forget, Lowe is a Groundball Pitcher with a World Series Ring and Veteran Savvy who can show the Phils' young arms (Myers, Madson, Floyd, and Hamels) about relationships (cough cough, Carolyn Hughes) and playoff celebrations (ahem, 2003 ALDS).

Lowe + Navarro for Abreu?

2005-12-01 13:28:05
274.   blue22
273 - Still leaves the little matter of replacing Lowe in the rotation. We're supposed to be adding to the rotation, not removing from. This would mean we'd have to add two above average starters from an already shallow pool of arms.
2005-12-01 13:31:47
275.   das411
274 - Ok. You guys want Randy Wolf and Vicente Padilla too?
2005-12-01 13:32:17
276.   MikeB
So what's the consensus on which candidate should get the manager's job?
My preferences:
1. Skinner
2. McLaren
3. Little
4. Acta
5. Fregosi
2005-12-01 13:32:54
277.   razzle nugent
hmm...the Phils are looking for a closer too. How about something like this:

Lowe + Sanchez + prospect
Abreu + Padilla + cash

Padilla would take a spot in our rotation. Quality of prospect depends upon amount of cash coming over from the Phils

2005-12-01 13:33:46
279.   Rob M
272 I'm surprised Alvarez wasn't added to the 40 man roster.
2005-12-01 13:35:26
280.   molokai
FYI from Jason Stark

Dodger rumblings

You hear the Dodgers connected with all kinds of free-agent rumors these days. But new GM Ned Colletti is being careful not to sign anyone who would block the eventual ascension of James Loney at first base, Andy LaRoche at third or Russell Martin behind the plate.

So it's the outfield where the Dodgers are looking to make their most dramatic changes. Giles and Juan Pierre were believed to be near the top of their shopping lists. But even with Giles off the board, there have been no indications the Dodgers have any major interest in Johnny Damon.

They've talked about Garciaparra as a possible third-base stopgap. But a more likely target would seem to be Bill Mueller, an old favorite of Colletti's from their days in San Francisco.

Ordinarily, a pursuit of Rafael Furcal wouldn't compute. But no one is certain of the prognosis on shortstop Cesar Izturis, who had Tommy John surgery in September.

"It's an injury that's very uncommon for that position," Colletti said. "It's not like there's a tremendous sampling of shortstops who have gone through it. It's funny, but pitching, in some ways, puts less strain on the elbow than shortstop. Think about having to throw from all different positions -- with a clock ticking."

2005-12-01 13:36:27
281.   regfairfield
If the Dodgers need to make payroll room, I'm a pretty big fan of Gagne for Jason Michaels and Cory Lidle.
2005-12-01 13:39:04
282.   blue22
281 - Do you think Gagne's trade value right now is as high as it could be? I'd prefer to hang on to Gagne, see how the season plays out and let him prove he's healthy again, and trade him in July if the Dodgers are not in contention.
2005-12-01 13:42:21
283.   FirstMohican
IF they're not in contention???
2005-12-01 13:43:52
284.   regfairfield
282 My main fear is that Michaels will be gone by then. Is Gagne's trade value at its potential highest right now? No, but with the contracts of B.J. Ryan and Billy Wagner, along with the fact that Philadelphia's closer right now is Ryan Madson, Philadelphia should be coveting Gagne right now.

If we can get more than that, great, but since it's looking doubtful that we'll be able to hold on to Gagne after this year, I'd rather ship him now for two things the team needs.

2005-12-01 13:46:06
285.   das411
277 - Ok, you win, Duaner Sanchez as our closer is MUCH funnier than Wolf + Padilla as "above-average" starters.

With that said, yours is an interesting deal, given that it looks like Gillick has taken care of the Phils' enormous gaping hole behind the plate today:

Of course the hilarious thing about any Abreu-to-LA deal is that the only player the Dodgers have who could replace his production in RF is....

2005-12-01 13:47:33
286.   King of the Hobos
You guys think the best we could get is Michaels and Lidle? While we may not want him to just leave, I'm sure other teams would give us a lot more for a risk on Gagne. Most GMs covet closers, not despise them
2005-12-01 13:51:12
287.   blue22
284 - You're worried that we might miss out on Jason Michaels - the soon-to-be 30 year old back up centerfielder?

I mean, I like Michaels and all, and hope that we can grab him this offseason, but I'm not trading Gagne for him.

2005-12-01 13:51:19
288.   underdog
272. Of that list, only Merricks, and maybe Alvarez and Figueroa raise my eyebrows... And I think these guys aren't necessarily given up on, the Dodgers just may think the odds are low that another team will care enough to put them on their roster for the whole year. But Merricks, I could see someone picking him up...
2005-12-01 13:52:03
289.   Bob Timmermann
Here's a big change starting in Jan. 2006.

"My Name is Earl" and "The Office" switch to Thursday nights at 9 (8 Central).

2005-12-01 13:52:21
290.   das411
281 , 284 - Ooh ooh!!! We could try a 1994 Padres/Astros-style MEGADEAL:

To LAD: Bobby Abreu, Jason Michaels, Mike Lieberthal, Vicente Padilla

To PHI: Derek Lowe, Eric Gagne, Dioner Navarro, Antonio Perez (just to make his trade history even cooler!)

2005-12-01 13:53:36
291.   King of the Hobos
Merricks was taken last year and was returned. I wish the Rockies would have returned Carvajal instead. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the pitchers were taken, although I doubt any could stay the whole year
2005-12-01 13:57:34
292.   blue22
290 - Ha! I want Brett Myers over Padilla in that trade.
2005-12-01 13:58:15
293.   regfairfield
Like I said, that Gagne move was based on the premise of a payroll cut. If we could do something like Gagne for Abreu, I'd be all for it.

Something about a guy with a .380 career on base and ridiculously good defense tells me he'd be a good fit for the Dodgers.

2005-12-01 14:03:39
294.   blue22
293 - Sure, but I didn't agree with it when you wrote it on your website last week either. I think enough teams need a closer (especially when the FA merry go round stops this offseason) that LA could demand more in a trade for Gagne this winter. Even more so in July, if he's able to put together a healthy first half.
2005-12-01 14:05:19
295.   regfairfield
294 All very good points, and far more rational than my "I wants me some Jason Michaels."
2005-12-01 14:08:23
296.   blue22
Jayson Stark on Michaels:

"At least a half-dozen teams are thought to be interested in Michaels, whose .399 on-base percentage (in a part-time role) ranked seventh among all NL outfielders who got to the plate as many times as he did.

"I'm a big fan of Jason Michaels," one NL front-office man said. "In fact, I'm not so sure that if he got a chance to play every day, he wouldn't do just as well as Aaron Rowand. If you gave Jason Michaels 500 at-bats, I think his numbers would shock some people."

Not everyone is convinced of that. But one team in hot pursuit is the Yankees. Two reasons those talks haven't gone anywhere (yet): (1) The Phillies asked for Chien-Ming Wang, and (2) the Phillies have told teams they're not interested in trading Michaels until they explore other options (i.e., dealing Abreu for a legit ace)."

I'm sure that we've got a trade piece better than Wang.

2005-12-01 14:09:24
297.   das411
292 - Ha HA! Myers has had as "mentors" the last three seasons: Kevin Millwood, Eric Milton, Jon Lieber, and Cory Lidle. NO WAY do we pass on seeing what Lowe might do to him :)

293 - Well, my megadeal has the $$ about even the first year, until 2007 when Lieby comes off the books and Gagne decides to go play for the Flyers.

Something about a guy with a .380 career on base and ridiculously good defense tells me he'd be a good fit for the Dodgers.

Um....Michaels' defense is really not all that great...and if this was in reference to Abreu I might break into an angry, Steve-esque rant.

2005-12-01 14:11:46
298.   slackfarmer
280 For all the old school, anti-stat propaganda in Dodgerland right now, it's nice to hear Colletti talking about sample size.

Colletti might just turn out to be OK. He hasn't done anything dumb yet . . . of course, he hasn't done anything at all yet.

2005-12-01 14:15:59
299.   slackfarmer
I can see why the Pods resigned Giles. On the other hand, given how the litter box saps his power, you have to wonder if they wouldn't have been better off with a cheap, high OBP, low power guy like Michaels. Then they could have used the extra cash to keep Hoffman or get a SP.
2005-12-01 14:17:07
300.   Mark
If we use Duaner Sanchez as our closer, can someone please attach a string to his glove, attached to his wrist?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-12-01 14:17:45
301.   jasonungar05
according to 670 the score (radio station) in Chicago, the Furcal derby just got a lot more interesting.

With the Dodgers losing out on Giles, they seem to be turning their focus to Furcal and are prepared to up their initial offer to Furcal. So much so, that Furcal is flying in tomorrow night for a face to face.

(just reporting....don't shoot me)

can this lineup win? I think it might be able to, but it would depend on the pitching:

Furcal ss
Nomar/Mueller 3b
Drew rf
Kent 2b
Bradley cf
Cruz lf
Choi/Olmedo 1b
Navarro C

2005-12-01 14:18:43
302.   regfairfield
297 Michaels' rate2 last year (left/center/right)
career: 107/108/107

The man was better defensively in center this year than:

Milton Bradley
Mark Kotsay
Andruw Jones
Vernon Wells
Carlos Beltran
Lots of other players who didn't come to mind when I was thinking of centerfielders with good defense.

The man brings a glove to the table.

2005-12-01 14:18:51
303.   D4P
Colletti might just turn out to be OK. He hasn't done anything dumb yet . . . of course, he hasn't done anything at all yet.

Technically, that's not true. Flanders did offer Giles a legitimate deal. Ned deserves credit for that.

2005-12-01 14:24:08
304.   trainwreck
But he also is probably going to hire Fregosi (even if he doesn't he still interviewed the guy haha) so that cancels the Giles offer so it is back to being a push. In fact if he does hire Fregosi that drops him in the negative.
2005-12-01 14:27:35
305.   D4P
2005-12-01 14:30:17
306.   King of the Hobos
I'm not surprised that our interest in Furcal has raised. But Colletti needs to say something about Izturis. What happens when Izzy comes back and everyone refuses to move? I don't think he can sign Furcal thinking "I'm sure Furcal or Kent will switch positions if I ask," especially if Nomar is signed and Bradley stays (big IF, I know). Colletti has seemed pretty adament about keeping Kent
2005-12-01 14:30:45
307.   sanchez101
301. every team but the rockies could win the NL West, the dodgers could sit back, get healthy and win 85-90 games.
2005-12-01 14:33:34
308.   trainwreck
I think Lowe's contract may turn out to be a bad thing in its last two years for us. I remember someone saying that basically the stats proved that Lowe's numbers were helped dramatically by his defense, so that is a bad sign to me. I know there is not a lot out there pitching wise, but for the long term view I would rather get Lowe's contract off our books and take two years of seeing Bobby Abreu and maybe give him an extension.
2005-12-01 14:36:00
309.   das411
308 - YES Trainwreck! And wouldn't you love to have a veteran backstop, a hometown boy no less, to help mentor whichever young catcher you don't trade to Philly with Lowe?
2005-12-01 14:36:04
310.   sanchez101
I think its unlikely that Nomar is comming to the Dodgers, if Colletti was interested in him for 3rd, he would have done something by now. No one wants him for SS.

I really hope that Colletti is upping the anti for Furcal because of media pressure. What is worse, Colletti actually thinking Furcal is worth $40+/4yrs or that Colletti knowingly overpay him for the sake of "doing something" to appease the media.

2005-12-01 14:36:26
311.   sanchez101
I think its unlikely that Nomar is comming to the Dodgers, if Colletti was interested in him for 3rd, he would have done something by now. No one wants him for SS.

I really hope that Colletti isnt upping the anti for Furcal because of media pressure. What is worse, Colletti actually thinking Furcal is worth $40+/4yrs or that Colletti knowingly overpay him for the sake of "doing something" to appease the media.

2005-12-01 14:37:42
312.   trainwreck
That is an expensive backup.
2005-12-01 14:41:25
313.   King of the Hobos
Would there be any interest in Catalanotto? He's comparable with Michaels, only walks a little less, strikes out less, and probably isn't nearly as good defensively. he hit 301/.367/.451 last year in 419 ABs. Maybe try to get a package of him and Lilly. Obviously there's better choices, and I'm not sure he's nearly as good as Werth, Ledee, Bardley, etc, he's just more of a safe bet
2005-12-01 14:48:54
314.   trainwreck
Think we could convince the people in Pittsburgh to take Odalis Perez?
2005-12-01 14:50:20
315.   sanchez101
308. Lowe's BABIP was .284, which isnt terribly indicative of unusually good luck or good defense. Despite improving his Groundball ration from 2004, his HR/9 went up from .74 to 1.41. It would seem that his HR rate should return to the .6-.8 range that he's used to. He was successful avoiding walks in 2005, so if he can keep his walk rate and G/F ratio steady he should improve.

i think this sentiment of Derek Lowe comes from the fact that his RA is always much higher than his ERA. In 2005 Lowe had a 3.61 ERA but a 4.77 RA. Really he isnt as good as his ERA would tell you for this reason, but I'm guessing that due to an improved HR/9 his RA would drop towards the lower 4's. Hopefully his ERA also drops, his ERA is usually a run lower than his RA. If he is putting a low 3's ERA then a smart GM would trade him to some team that thinks that Lowe is a front line guy when in fact he is a middle rotation guy. Hopefully Colletti is that smart GM.

2005-12-01 14:51:51
316.   sanchez101
314. Pittsburgh has a surplus of young pitchers, and Odalis doesnt exaclty have a good clubhouse rep, so i doubt Tracy was a big fan of his.
2005-12-01 14:52:06
317.   King of the Hobos
314 They are currently expecting a 2006 rotation of Oliver Perez, Williams, Duke, Redman, and Maholm, all lefties (this is assuming they trade Wells). No way they'd want Perez. However, if Colletti is as good a talker as he claims, maybe he could Oliver here instead. The Pirates have to be afraid of Boras with Oliver
2005-12-01 14:53:46
318.   LAT
dodgers could sit back, get healthy and win 85-90 games

Yes if by "get healthy" you mean July.

I would have bet the farm against again having the injury prone season we had last year, but here we are with at least four MAJOR players injured and expected to still be injured when spring training or the season rolls around.

2005-12-01 14:54:58
319.   D4P
Yeah. The most likely candidates for trades with Pittsburgh would presumably be Phillips, Repko, Myrow, and company.
2005-12-01 14:55:34
320.   trainwreck
I will give Colletti big credit if he can get rid of Perez and not take a more costly and worse player. I really think Houlton will give us the same results at a fraction of the cost.
2005-12-01 14:56:02
321.   DaveP
Has it already been posted here that USA Today's Nightendale is saying:

"Jim Fregosi, who's expected to be hired this week as the Dodgers' new manager, plans to invite World Series hero Kirk Gibson to be his first-base coach."

I hope this is just Nightengale made up nonsense. It's under "The Buzz" on top right of this page:

2005-12-01 14:58:45
322.   D4P
ESPN's Jayson Stark said he's not as confident that Rafael Furcal will join the Cubs as he was two days ago.
Talks are continuing, and it's possible no deal will be reached before the end of the weekend, as was previously expected. The Arlington Heights Daily Herald is reporting that the Cubs have offered Furcal $50 million over five years. The Dodgers also appear likely to beat the Braves' four-year offer. Agent Paul Kinzer met with the Braves yesterday and will continue to do so. "I'm based out of Atlanta. I'd love to keep him here," Kinzer said. "Ultimately it's going to be his decision. There has not been a decision made." Dec. 1 - 5:12 pm et
- Rotoworld
2005-12-01 15:09:01
323.   Uncle Miltie
"Furcal is friends with Cubs infielders Aramis Ramirez and Neifi Perez, and he has a long respect for the Dodgers based on that organization's strong presence in his native Dominican Republic, Kinzer said."
Did McCourt just cut the funding for something in the Dominican Republic?

Furcal also came up through the Braves farm system with Odalis Perez. Hopefully (for Ned's sake), Furcal doesn't call Odalis to ask him how he likes it in LA. I talked to a guy who works for the Dodgers and he said that Odalis is very unhappy in LA.

2005-12-01 15:09:33
324.   das411
317 - Weren't there rumors that Redman had been traded to the Mets though?

Oh wait, that was Timo Perez-Redman.

2005-12-01 15:14:21
325.   molokai
Breakdown of the best rightfielders in baseball last year. Giles tops the list but JD Drew does very well for a man who missed 1/2 a season.
2005-12-01 15:16:37
326.   sanchez101
Hypothetical: these two SS are available, who would you rather have in their first year of free agency. They are the same age, these are their previous 5 seasons in WARP1:

Player 1: 4.5,6.8,4.6,5.5,4.7 = 26.1 (5.2ave)
Player 2: 8.2,5.2,5.1,5.2,3.0 = 26.7 (5.3ave)

player 1, Miguel Tejada, signed for $72/6yrs. player 2 is Rafael Furcal. both were free agents after their age 27 season. Does this make Furcal at $50/5 yrs worth it?

2005-12-01 15:22:28
327.   trainwreck
Can you explain what that stat means and what it takes into account?
2005-12-01 15:22:33
328.   Steve
We're dead.
2005-12-01 15:24:06
329.   molokai
Jason Marquis is available. Check out his VORP stats at BP. He was the 7th best HITTER on the Cardinals. If he had been on the Dodgers he would have been our FOURTH best hitter. On the Royals he would have been their 5th best hitter. That is some serious production from a guy who hits every 5 games.
The Card's need a 2nd baseman, a right fielder, a left fielder, maybe a 3rd baseman and they are supposedly making Burnett a huge offer. Maybe they should make Ankiel the RF and Marquis the LF then they could do righty/lefty without ever having to use the bullpen:)
2005-12-01 15:27:30
330.   molokai
It is a Baseball Prospectus stat:

Wins Above Replacement Player, level 1. The number of wins this player contributed, above what a replacement level hitter, fielder, and pitcher would have done, with adjustments only for within the season.

2005-12-01 15:28:55
331.   trainwreck
Ok thanks there a few stats on prospectus that I never understood what they meant.
2005-12-01 15:29:47
332.   blue22
So if the value of WARP signifies a "win", what does the value in VORP represent?

And if a "win" is equivalent to 10 runs (yes?), is WARP*10 = "runs above replacement level"?

2005-12-01 15:31:49
333.   zappala
326 Yes, but look at OPS:

Furcal: 691, 710, 795, 758, 777
Tejada: 802, 862, 808, 894, 864

I'm not that familiar with WARP-1, other than understanding it is wins above replacement level, but I'd like to understand how that stat would make you value them evenly when the OPS for Tejada is so much better.

2005-12-01 15:33:49
334.   molokai
Because Warp1 takes into account defense and Furcal was the best defensive NL SS in baseball last year using the BP metrics.

BP has a glossary for all their stats.

2005-12-01 15:34:51
335.   molokai
VORP does not take into account defense.
2005-12-01 15:35:10
336.   Sushirabbit
329 Hahaha. What is going to happen to Ankiel? I sort of feel bad for the guy.

I like Izzy and all, but, hey if we can get Furcal for 50/5 and still go get some other pitcher, I'd probably be ok, even if it was Zito.

I have some questions (this means Jon is already posting another entry):
1) Who is for sure coming back in the rotation?
2) Is Martin ready?
3) what the heck is going to happen with Valentin, who I think is better than useless. (clearly some think not much better than useless)

2005-12-01 15:40:40
337.   Johnson
Please note that in 326 the years are listed 2005-2001 and in 333 the years are listed 2001-2005. I just wouldn't want anyone to wonder how Furcal got an 8.2 WARP with an OPS of .691 in a season where he only played about half the games. I mean, I sure did until I figured it out.
2005-12-01 15:40:48
338.   dzzrtRatt
On "Rome Rules in Hell" or whatever that show on ESPN is called, Jim Rome and two other punks were laughing it up about Giles' decision to choose (guffaw guffaw) San Diego over the former "marquee team," the Dodgers. This choice is being taken as an indication that the Dodgers' McCourt mess is scaring off FA's.
2005-12-01 15:41:52
339.   underdog
I just noticed the (unintentional? but) appropriate play on words in Jon's sujbect header here. Hee!

Sing it: "Just our 19th managerial candidate breakdown..."

336. I thought Valentin was a free agent and they didn't have any plans to re-sign him?

2005-12-01 15:45:07
340.   sanchez101
334. Furcal's advantages are in baserunning and defense, as well as OBP. Furcal's career OBP is .348, Tejada's is .338, and thats after two monster years in baltimore. Tejada's advantage is power.

I didnt realize how bad Tejada's contract must have looked at the time, here's a guy that's never been worth 7 wins in a season getting a 6 year commitment for $12 million per. Then Tejada goes and has a 10 win season in 2004 and a 7.8 win season in 2005, to justify the first years of the contract.

I think the counter-argument to 326 is that players with power peak later than speed/defense players. But I think its worth noting that Furcal will only be 32 in the last year of a 5 year contract, so he may maintain a 5 win level which would be worth $10 million dollars, and its possible that he could have another 8 win season, which would provide some upside.

2005-12-01 15:47:32
341.   Sushirabbit
Well I'll answer myself somewhat via, Colleti's comments:

1) Not Weaver and maybe not another someone.
2) Yes.
3) Likely on the block. With Youngsters stepping up.

I do think Choi, Valentin, Aybar, Perez (or some other pitcher) is more bait than your average organization will be floating. Not that I'm endorsing trading any or all of them. I'd trust Izturis would be back at some point as a utility guy.

I like the comments. But the may have been made in the "paint a good picture" mode of commenting.

2005-12-01 15:47:59
342.   sanchez101
338. i saw that, they didnt bother to mention that Giles was from SD and had claimed he was willing to take a paycut to stay, or that the Yankees and Blue Jays were also outbid. Sports commentators seem to want people to hate them these days, so instead of saying that Jim Rome is an idiot, im just going to say nothing and never watch him again.
2005-12-01 15:49:52
343.   scareduck
341 - Valentin is a free agent and therefore can't be "on the block".
2005-12-01 15:53:25
344.   zappala
334 Are defensive statistics well-understood to the point that we are confident that good defense can make up a 150 point OPS difference?
2005-12-01 15:55:59
345.   blue22
341 - I'll take a crack:

1. Penny seems to be the only guy guaranteed back, though Lowe will most likely return.
2. Probably not, but fortunately Navarro appears to be. Martin still appears to be the long term choice.
3. He gone!

2005-12-01 15:59:15
346.   Sushirabbit
343 gotcha. Looks like he might retire, too.

For some reason I thought he was signed for two years. I'm a lazy slob that can't follow along. Feel free to McCourt me.

I look at all the players that the Dodgers have and I can't feel too bad. There's actually enough to do some creative trades without getting rid of everybody.

Still, the rotation isn't exactly confidence building.

2005-12-01 16:00:50
347.   sanchez101
344. Tejada's career OPS is .815, Furcal's is .757, its more like a 60 point difference. Scouts and any defensive metrics youll find show Furcal to be one of the best defensive shortstops and tejada to be average. To answer your question, no i dont think it can make up a 150 point difference. But i think it can make up for a 60 point difference.
2005-12-01 16:04:00
348.   dzzrtRatt
342 I was a captive audience. It was on at my gym with closed captions.
2005-12-01 16:04:29
349.   natepurcell
guys, i dont think we are trading kent or gagne this offseason.

but dont worry, if we are out of it by the deadline, both will be goners. my personal favorite trades:

kent+schmoll to the mets for heilman and milledge

gagne to the red sox for lester and papelbon.

eh eh eh?

2005-12-01 16:05:41
350.   trainwreck
Tim Worrel back with the Giants... the balance of power shifts in the NL West.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-12-01 16:05:47
351.   natepurcell
Tejada's career OPS is .815, Furcal's is .757, its more like a 60 point difference. Scouts and any defensive metrics youll find show Furcal to be one of the best defensive shortstops and tejada to be average. To answer your question, no i dont think it can make up a 150 point difference. But i think it can make up for a 60 point difference.

this is interesting, this is make me feeling a little better about signing furcal long term.

2005-12-01 16:07:23
352.   trainwreck
Wow and we sign Hochevar along with that and we have more long term pitchers then we can handle.
2005-12-01 16:07:33
353.   sanchez101
349. that seems realistic and very helpful for the dodgers. Ive liked Milledge a lot, I think he would fit perfectly into the Dodgers future as LA doesnt have any centerfield prospects. He could be a lot like a center field version of furcal, but with more power.
2005-12-01 16:09:29
354.   Fallout
338. dzzrtRatt
This choice is being taken as an indication that the Dodgers' McCourt mess is scaring off FA's.

That is pretty much what LAT and I said.
See 225 & 202.

2005-12-01 16:10:33
355.   sanchez101
351. i cant believe im becoming OK with furcal at the rumored prices, perhaps defense really is undervalued. Ironically, Furcal may/should be a "sabermetric" free agent in this offseason. Where is Steve to straighten me out?
2005-12-01 16:14:56
356.   natepurcell
Wow and we sign Hochevar along with that and we have more long term pitchers then we can handle.

thats what im hoping. Because of TINSTAAPP, gather as much arms as you!!

2005-12-01 16:15:32
357.   natepurcell
molokai, what was that link again that showed furcal being one of the best SS's this year. it was a BP link i think...
2005-12-01 16:15:41
358.   trainwreck
so lets say Nate's deals go down. We have Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Lester, Papelbon, Jackson, Elbert, Hochevar, Tiffany, Orrenduff, Broxton, Miller, and Heilman all capable of being good starters (and this is not even counting recent draft picks like Wall and other possible sleepers in our system). So who are the starters? I would first assume we would get rid of Lowe and/or Penny. Billingsley, Hochevar, Lester, Papelbon, Miller maybe?
2005-12-01 16:21:39
359.   natepurcell
well, papelbon wouldnt be in our rotation. i acquired him to be a power arm in the bullpen.

papelbon, broxton, brazoban, sanchez, kuo, miller, heilman in the pen.

penny, billingsley, lester, hochevar, elbert, in the rotation.

lowe and odalis traded.

jackson, orenduff, tiffany, etc fall victim to the curse of TINSTAAPP

2005-12-01 16:21:42
360.   blue22
358 - I'm not sure why you'd trade Penny and/or Lowe, unless you've fastforwarded to 2008.
2005-12-01 16:22:59
361.   zappala
347 Sure, it's a 60 point OPS difference for the career numbers, but the past two years it has been in the 90 to 130 point range. I'm not sure Furcal's defense is so good that it makes them nearly equivalent, which is what the original post said. Given that the Dodgers need more offense right now, I'm leery of paying a lot to Furcal.
2005-12-01 16:26:07
362.   trainwreck
That would be so ridiculous. Though I think there is no chance the Red Sox would trade their two best pitching prospects for Gagne, they aren't the Mets (not to mention they have Hansen).
2005-12-01 16:29:30
363.   Fallout
360. blue22

I'm sure that you don't trade them. I'm also sure that I would have made my best effort to get Josh Beckett too.

2005-12-01 16:30:31
364.   natepurcell
That would be so ridiculous. Though I think there is no chance the Red Sox would trade their two best pitching prospects for Gagne, they aren't the Mets (not to mention they have Hansen)

lester is their best prospect, but i would put hansen and pedroia infront of papelbon.

anyways, the red sox could do this. media pressure to win now, they have a team buil to win now. they need to beat the yankees. foulke continues to suck. they need that stopper in the bullpen to compete with rivera. And if gagne comes back to being the gagne of old, he is that difference maker in the playoffs.

and, it wouldnt just be a rental, they have a 2nd yr option they could exericse.

with wagner making 10 mil a yr, that 12 mil yr gagne option isnt looking totaly unrealistic.

2005-12-01 16:31:24
365.   natepurcell
I'm sure that you don't trade them. I'm also sure that I would have made my best effort to get Josh Beckett too.

what would your offer be for beckett+ dead baggage named lowell?

2005-12-01 16:32:09
366.   sanchez101
361. i was just talking about the two players entering free agency, but the OPS comparisons are for career to date, so Furcal is even closer in OPS through the age 27. The dodgers supposedly need more everything, offense, defense, pitching. Anyway, dont you think Furcal is significant offensive upgrade over izturis, perez, or robles?
2005-12-01 16:34:51
367.   sanchez101
365.I dont think Lowell is dead weight. Its certainly possible for him to bounce back, check out the article on him and thome at
2005-12-01 16:36:28
368.   trainwreck
I have never argued that I thought Furcal was an upgrade over what we have now at shortstop, but I just wondered if he was worth double digits a year. Obviously if we start using the prospects then we will have more and more money to spend, so we have the ability so spend a lot on some players. I still dream of Guzman at short stop hahaha.
2005-12-01 16:37:15
369.   Javier Gutierrez
Has anybody else wondered how weak the Dodgers have been in the SS position? Other than Pee Wee Reese and Maury Wills who else has been above average?
2005-12-01 16:41:23
370.   Fallout
365. natepurcell

It's not like the Dodgers already have a third baseman. To get Beckett, I'll take Lowell.

2005-12-01 16:43:41
371.   sanchez101
363. Penny doesnt get enough attention, despite the fact that he is the best pitcher the Dodgers have, I think he has considerable upside, if he remains healthy. Consider his contract: 06:$4.5M, 07:$7M, 08:$8.5M, 09:$9.25M club option ($2M buyout). Thats $22 million gauranteed over 3 years. Considering this years market, Billy Beane just signed Loaiza for $21/3yrs, Penny's signing maybe the most shrewd move Depodesta made. He may be short of a staff ace, but he's a solid pitcher and a very good bargain.

Interesting how Penny was willing to sign a below market contract with Depodesta, but now we cant get guys by overpaying for them. This isnt Colletti's fault of course, but McCourt's.

2005-12-01 16:44:11
372.   Bob Timmermann
Reese and Wills both started for a long time. Since Wills there haven't been a lot to choose from, but it's not like the NL has been overflowing in great hitting shortstops since Wills retirement.

Is Barry Larkin going to make the Hall of Fame? If not, what other longtime NL shortstop is? Ozzie Smith may be the last one for a while.

2005-12-01 16:44:56
373.   natepurcell
speaking of guzman, here are his updated stats as of today, dec 1st.

105ABs 9doubles 1triple 5hr 16R 25rbi 12bb 22k


k/pa= .188
bb/pa= .103

isoD= 74
isoP= 249

not to shabby. If he can keep his walk rate and k rate steady, it should be noted as a very nice improvement from his AA showing.

2005-12-01 16:45:59
374.   natepurcell
It's not like the Dodgers already have a third baseman. To get Beckett, I'll take Lowell.

okay then what would your offer be?

2005-12-01 16:47:25
375.   natepurcell
Omar is on his quest to making an all latin team!

Mets GM Omar Minaya's busy offseason continues: MSG Network has learned the Amazins have dealt Kris Benson to Baltimore for reliever Jorge Julio.

2005-12-01 16:47:26
376.   sanchez101
368. I still hold out hope that Guzman can play SS. As to your question, is Furcal worth double digits? Well, he's clearly established himself as a 5 win player capable of significantly better seasons occasionally. Valueing a win at $2 million, $10 million for Furcal sounds reasonable, with some upside for the team.
2005-12-01 16:47:33
377.   trainwreck
I really wonder what we do with Billingsley. Just give him a taste of AAA before it ruins him or keep him in AA or go crazy and bring him up.
2005-12-01 16:49:25
378.   Uncle Miltie
If Ned can get Furcal and keep Bradley, then I'll be pleased. I didn't realize that Furcal was an elite defender.
2005-12-01 16:50:34
379.   natepurcell
I really wonder what we do with Billingsley. Just give him a taste of AAA before it ruins him or keep him in AA or go crazy and bring him up.

for me, it depends on what he does in ST. if he dominates, let him start the season in the bigs. if he doesnt, start him off at AA then bring him up midseason (or when odalis injurys himself again) i dont really want him to sniff vegas.

2005-12-01 16:50:35
380.   sanchez101
375. what? this makes little sense, who trades a mediocre starter for a mediocre reliever? Is benson injured or something? If Julio is worth Benson, what is Duaner Sanchez worth?
2005-12-01 16:51:01
381.   D4P
I don't think it's a good idea to send any of our pitching prospects to Las Vegas.
2005-12-01 16:51:45
382.   natepurcell
I didn't realize that Furcal was an elite defender.

i knew he was pretty good but im in your boat, i didnt know he was THAT good defensively.

that said, he probably has the strongest throwing arm ive seen in a long time.

2005-12-01 16:52:55
383.   dzzrtRatt
375 Great news! Finally, Anna Benson can have sex with her husband in all the American League ballparks, too!
2005-12-01 16:55:17
384.   Bob Timmermann
Are the rest of the Orioles now looking to see if they can cash in if Kris Benson is unfaithful?
2005-12-01 16:57:13
385.   Uncle Miltie
that said, he probably has the strongest throwing arm ive seen in a long time.
Shawon Dunston like
2005-12-01 16:59:48
386.   sanchez101
Furcal's defense according to BP:
rate(100=ave) DRAR: Defensive runs above replacement DRAA: Defensive runs above average

2001 19 . 7 . 109
2002 31 . 9 . 106
2003 8 . -13 . 91
2004 23 . 4 . 103
2005 41 . 20 . 114

career rate of 103 (3 runs above average per 100 games)

2005-12-01 17:01:20
387.   D4P
I'm no expert, but those numbers appear to fluctuate quite a bit.
2005-12-01 17:03:38
388.   Javier Gutierrez
Is Furcal's 2005 stats on Defense an indicator that he did not have many throwing errors compared to previous years?
2005-12-01 17:04:15
389.   sanchez101
it seems that way, but no more than his offense:

2002: 250eqa
2003: 280eqa
2004: 266eqa
2005: 276eqa

its odd how furcal's defense and offense have fluctuated from average to good, while his overall production (as measured by WARP) has stayed much more consistent.

2005-12-01 17:05:25
390.   trainwreck
This is such a dumb trade. Julio has a VORP of -4. He has gotten worse the last three years in a row. People in NY thought Looper was bad, just wait. This seems like a salary dump move, which is odd for the free spending Mets.
2005-12-01 17:05:54
391.   sanchez101
388. furcal had 15 errors last season, dont know how many were throwing, but the total was the lowest of his career for a full season.
2005-12-01 17:06:30
392.   Fallout
374. natepurcell

LoDuca, Encarnacion, Mota and a prospect.

2005-12-01 17:07:02
393.   fawnkyj
I guess im one of the few who would love to have Furcal on this team, with Izzy and Furcal up the middle groundballs beware. It would help our young starters immensely!

I found this on the JAyson Starks article today:

You hear the Dodgers connected with all kinds of free-agent rumors these days. But new GM Ned Colletti is being careful not to sign anyone who would block the eventual ascension of James Loney at first base, Andy LaRoche at third or Russell Martin behind the plate.

So it's the outfield where the Dodgers are looking to make their most dramatic changes. Giles and Juan Pierre were believed to be near the top of their shopping lists. But even with Giles off the board, there have been no indications the Dodgers have any major interest in Johnny Damon.

They've talked about Garciaparra as a possible third-base stopgap. But a more likely target would seem to be Bill Mueller, an old favorite of Colletti's from their days in San Francisco.

Ordinarily, a pursuit of Rafael Furcal wouldn't compute. But no one is certain of the prognosis on shortstop Cesar Izturis, who had Tommy John surgery in September.

"It's an injury that's very uncommon for that position," Colletti said. "It's not like there's a tremendous sampling of shortstops who have gone through it. It's funny, but pitching, in some ways, puts less strain on the elbow than shortstop. Think about having to throw from all different positions -- with a clock ticking."

2005-12-01 17:08:38
394.   Uncle Miltie
386- 20 RAA is elite
2005-12-01 17:09:06
395.   fawnkyj
Id love for our 2007 infield to be:

1b Loney
2b Izzy
SS Furcal
3b Laroche
C Martin

Next years FA market will be better and we can fill from there what outfield needs we might have.

2005-12-01 17:09:56
396.   sanchez101
394. ya, and vizquel won the gold glove. what an irrelivant award.
2005-12-01 17:10:15
397.   bigcpa
This is BPro 'Batting Runs Above Avg' minus 'Fielding Runs Above Avg.' Furcal was an 11/20 BRAA/FRAA last year. That fielding number is astronomical and shouldn't be counted on going forward. Ozzie Smith had a 21 FRAA at age 27. Furcal was a 5/4 in 2004.

44 Peralta
34 Jeter
31 Furcal
23 Tejada
18 Lugo
11 Young
7 Eckstein
5 F Lopez
4 Vizquel
1 Rollins
-1 Juan Uribe
-5 O Cabrera
-9 Izturis
-10 Greene
-16 Reyes
-22 Clayton
-29 Renteria
-37 Guzman

2005-12-01 17:11:35
398.   D4P
Which way did Hee go?
2005-12-01 17:12:45
399.   D4P
Did you mean "plus" instead of "minus"?
2005-12-01 17:13:23
400.   natepurcell
i am really suprised at how peralta played defensively. all metrics say he was amazing.

that is wierd because scuts were never high on his defensivie abilities in the minors.

he gives me hope for guzman haha.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-12-01 17:14:33
401.   fawnkyj
Choi is keeping 1st base warm for the time being. If what ive read is true, Loney is a GG 1B, Sorry Choi.

I think with the young arms coming up you have to give them every opportunity to suceed and a strong infield would do that.

2005-12-01 17:14:46
402.   Fallout
398. D4P
Which way did Hee go?

It wasn't Choicago.

2005-12-01 17:15:58
403.   sanchez101
397. thats why furcal had a 8.2 WARP in 2005 and a 5.2 WARP in 2004. My whole reasoning is that Furcal is a 5 win player, and therefore is worth $10 million. I dont think that 2005 is indicative of Furcals "baseline" but of upside.
2005-12-01 17:16:18
404.   bigcpa
397 A few others of interest:


46 Giles 51/-5
33 Adam Dunn 40/-7
31 Ramirez 44/-13
28 Abreu 34/-6
-11 G Anderson -4/-7

2005-12-01 17:17:54
405.   bigcpa
399 Yes- my bad. BRAA+FRAA.
2005-12-01 17:18:15
406.   Andrew Shimmin
PSA: Firefox 1.5 doesn't play well with ESPN (so think twice about upgrading). It's preventing me from unveiling my steller plan for 2006 (hint: it involves aquiring Kaz Ishii, Pedro Astacio, Juan Encarnacion, Lenny Harris, and Dave Hanson).
2005-12-01 17:21:07
407.   sanchez101
400. if you look at what Baseball America wrote about Guzman last year this time (it was in there team by team top 10 prospect write-up) they said that while Guzman projects to be to big for SS, scouts grade his overall defensive package as average to above average. I cant get you a link as i dont have a subscription with BA.
2005-12-01 17:21:20
408.   Andrew Shimmin
Hmm. A gold glove first baseman? That's like a premier middle reliever, right? League leading right-handed pinch hitter? I'll get on the Loney bandwagon when he starts hitting.
2005-12-01 17:24:54
409.   sanchez101
i think Loney has sean casey potential; usefull but not anything really special. he doesnt have the upside choi still has.
2005-12-01 17:26:57
410.   GoBears
405 Phew. I was about to throw up in my mouth over any stat that would rank Jeter so high defensively. But offense plus defense - OK, I'll go along.

395, 401: Remember 2003? THe Dodgers had the best defensive team in history, and by far the best pitching in the league, and managed to win half their games. Great Infield defense is a nice bonus, but pitching is more important defensively, and offense as important as pitching and defense combined. This isn't wizardry - you have to score more runs than the other guy. 7-6 is no worse than 1-0. So, other things equal, go for good defense, but other things are rarely equal.

2005-12-01 17:35:26
411.   Linkmeister
O/T, but here's some shameless self-promotion:

My votes for Hall of Fame 2006. (I left Orel out, at least this year.)

2005-12-01 17:36:22
412.   Steve
Loney is a terrible defender with limited range and an iron glove.
2005-12-01 17:37:12
413.   natepurcell
looking over the numbers, i dont feel signing furcal to a 5 yr 50 mil deal would be the end of the world.

it seems the dodger org is uncertain of izzys future.

But if izzy can come back from this and show he can still make plays from Short stop positions, then we have a 26 yr old GG winning shortstop with a cheap contract available to teams for trade...

2005-12-01 17:38:45
414.   natepurcell
i just realized... wasnt tim worrell a type A free agent?

and didnt the giants just sign him, thefore forfeiting their draft picks.... lol please let this be true, i need a good laugh.

2005-12-01 17:40:32
415.   D4P
Giants signed RHP Tim Worrell, who had been with the Diamondbacks, to a two-year, $4 million contract.
One more year than he should have received. Worrell pitched well after joining the Diamondbacks last season, finishing with a 2.27 ERA in 31 2/3 IP. Still, his peripherals weren't nearly as good as his ERA. He is 38 now, so the Giants are asking way too much if they expect him to resume pitching like he did when he was with the team from 2001-03. He'll aid LaTroy Hawkins in setting up for Armando Benitez. The Diamondbacks made out extremely well here, as they gave up just Matt Kata for two months of good relief pitching, a supplemental first-round pick and the Giants' second-round pick. The Giants' pick could be lower if the team signs another Type-A free agent. Dec. 1 - 6:25 pm et
2005-12-01 17:40:53
416.   dzzrtRatt
The 2003 team didn't start out wanting to be the "best defensive team in history." It was supposed to contend on pitching, plus the bats of Shawn Green, Adrian Beltre, Brian Jordan, Paul LoDuca, Fred McGriff and Dave Roberts. None of the hitters came through like they were supposed to, although LoDuca had a good first half and Beltre a good second half. However, they managed to stay in the pennant/wild card race until the final week because of the pitching & defense "bonus."

So I guess I disagree with you, GoBears. If you've got great pitching and defense, you don't need as much offense as you would with a team that can't hold leads because of crappy pitching and clumsy defense. The 2003 team was phenomenally incompetent at the plate--second worst in the majors. If the 2003 team had gotten a 2002 season out of Green and a 2004 season out of Beltre, i.e. if the overall offensive output had been mediocre instead of horrible, they would have probably won the division, on the strength of a lot of 4-2 wins instead of 2-1 losses.

2005-12-01 17:41:15
417.   GoBears
411 Thanks for sharing, Link. My own view is that while agree with your relative assessments of quality, you've set the bar for entry a little low. Several of those guys (Dawson, Rice, Parker, maybe John, I'd put in the mythical "Hall of Damn Good," but not the HoF.

I agree on Gossage, Blyleven, and I guess Sutter. I'm willing to be talked into Lee Smith, but my gut feeling is that he just misses. And I agree with all of your "nopes."

2005-12-01 17:41:38
418.   natepurcell
well its good to know colletti wasnt the brains behind the "signing over the hill vets to forfeit draft picks" strategy.
2005-12-01 17:41:52
419.   bigcpa
414 Worrell is indeed a Type A FA.
2005-12-01 17:42:34
420.   GoBears
414 If true, that might be a good sign. That it wasn't Colletti who was so disdainful of draft picks. He's gone from SF, but they're still spending them like they grow on trees.
2005-12-01 17:47:17
421.   D4P
Just out of curiosity, is it socially acceptable to be utterly frivolous with something as long as it grows on a tree?
2005-12-01 17:47:58
422.   GoBears
416 So I guess I disagree with you, GoBears. If you've got great pitching and defense, you don't need as much offense as you would with a team that can't hold leads because of crappy pitching and clumsy defense.

No, we don't disagree at all. What you said is exactly right. My point was that a team cannot survive on defense and pitching alone. IF defensive upgrades mean offensive downgrades, you're rarely even breaking even. That '03 team was so good at preventing runs that they didn't need to score much to win half their games. Which is exactly what happened. They didn't score much and won half their games.

I didn't say that that was the pre-2003 plan. Green, Beltre, et al. really disappointed at the bat (though knowing what we know now, it's less surprising). My admonition was to fawnkyj, who seemed to assembling his dream lineup of the future on defense alone. That's a recipe for 2003-like results.

2005-12-01 17:48:44
423.   trainwreck
Wow Sabean! A quote from the great tv show and comedy group, "The State" is appropriate... how you find the door, your'e so stupid.
2005-12-01 17:49:45
424.   GoBears
421 Well, we recycle paper, but it doesn't really grow "on" trees. It IS trees. Soylent Pulp.
2005-12-01 17:49:56
425.   Uncle Miltie
Besides age, there's a reason why there weren't many teams interested in Worrell. He has a big drinking problem. He also was having marital problems because he was cheating on his wife and she found out.
2005-12-01 17:51:06
426.   Steve
Besides age, there's a reason why there weren't many teams interested in Worrell. He has a big drinking problem.

That apparently doesn't stop us.

2005-12-01 17:51:35
427.   trainwreck
What does that say about this off-season that Worrel is a type A free agent.
2005-12-01 17:52:54
428.   sanchez101
425. better not let lowe and furcal together
2005-12-01 18:01:47
429.   Uncle Miltie
426- I'm pretty sure Worrell is an alcoholic. I wouldn't be surprised if Derek Lowe is too. Furcal...he just loves to drink & drive, while picking up strippers and call girls. Big difference.
2005-12-01 18:02:14
430.   D4P
Regarding Furcal: it sounds as if folks are becoming increasingly comfortable with the idea of signing him. Do you envision him in the leadoff spot?
2005-12-01 18:02:21
431.   King of the Hobos
Colletti has a week to not sign someone like Rudy Saenez or Royce Clayton. Can he make it?
2005-12-01 18:04:21
432.   trainwreck
Well that means we will not get him now. That was the nail in the coffin.
2005-12-01 18:04:34
433.   Fearing Blue
Hello all. It's been a while. I decided to take a break from school to catch up on the Hot Stove. I'm happy that Ned is going after Furcal for a few reasons:

1) It shows that he doesn't really care about character as much as he talks about it.

2) It shows that he and the Dodgers organization realizes that Izturis is essentially worthless and that shortstop is the Dodgers biggest hole in the minors.

3) After Giles, who Ned tried to sign, Furcal is probably the best player available once you account for defense, positional adjustments, and most importantly age.

Additionally, I'd like the Dodgers to trade for a 4th/5th outfielder type with some upside, because Repko shouldn't be anywhere near our 25-man roster and I don't think any of our minor leaguers are ready. Though in a Depodesta-like fashion, I wouldn't mind giving Tydus Meadows a prolonged look. Still, an outfield of Drew / Bradley / Cruz / Werth / Not Repko doesn't seem so bad to me.

2005-12-01 18:05:41
434.   D4P
Let's try that again. Do you envision Juan Pierre in the leadoff spot? How about Gathright?
2005-12-01 18:07:44
435.   Fearing Blue
#430: Absolutely... how about something like...

SS Furcal
3B Aybar / Perez
RF Drew
2B Kent
CF Bradley
LF Cruz / Werth
1B Choi
C Navarro

Of course, that assumes that Bradley and Drew are healthy, which is unlikely to be the case at the same time.

2005-12-01 18:08:24
436.   sanchez101
430. he isnt a great option to lead off, but studies on the subject dont show that batting order is that important, so i dont think it should be a make or brake issue
2005-12-01 18:09:48
437.   Steve
433 -- Hi FB. Nice to see you again, though that Furcal dagger you planted in my back was a fine how do ya do! :)
2005-12-01 18:10:27
438.   D4P
I was thinking:

Regarding "studies on the subject": would you mind elaborating?

2005-12-01 18:12:03
439.   King of the Hobos
433 Seems you forgot Ledee
2005-12-01 18:12:30
440.   molokai
It is funny to me that the defensive metrics show Furcal to be such a great defensive player. My brother worked for the Braves and until this year he would cuss out Furcal everytime we watched a game because of his defense.

For you Nate

2005-12-01 18:13:08
441.   Steve
Furcal has two left feet, doesn't play the bad hop right, and short-arms everything.
2005-12-01 18:14:49
442.   Uncle Miltie
The AA team:
C ????
1B Kevin Millar
2B ???
SS Furcal
3B Hank Blalock
LF Pat Burrell
CF Jason Michaels
RF J.D. Drew
SP Sidney Ponson/Derek Lowe
CP Ugueth Urbina
2005-12-01 18:15:52
443.   D4P
For a SS, that's better than two left arms.
2005-12-01 18:19:31
444.   molokai
I don't see any problem with Jason Repko being a 5th outfielder. That is why they have 5th outfielders for guys like him. It was just his 1st year in the bigs, cut him some slack.
2005-12-01 18:23:06
445.   sanchez101
these two from baseball prospectus go into lineup construction;

one of the writers for the hardballtimes wrote an article that showed that the difference between the most ideal and the least ideal lineup is about 1-2 wins per season, i cant seem to find this article however

2005-12-01 18:24:02
446.   natepurcell
whatever happened to jackson and duaner staying with gagne this offseason to train and work on pitches?
2005-12-01 18:29:52
447.   D4P
Thanks. I'm not a subscriber, but I think I got the gist from the free text. Have you ever seen any frequencies with respect to how often leadoff hitters leadoff innings relative to other places in the lineup?
2005-12-01 18:34:05
448.   King of the Hobos
446 Sanchez hasn't showed up for the Gigantes yet, so I assume he's still with Gagne or just finished

Speaking of the Gigantes, Antonio Perez was hit two weeks ago in the head and is out for the DR season. A lot of swelling. I haven't seen any written news on the matter, just information from people in the DR (and he left the game on the 19th and hasn't returned)

Has anyone heard about the PTBNL from the Thurston trade? I believe the Yankees have until late January

2005-12-01 18:39:40
449.   das411
410 - Couldn't let this one slide, but the 1999 Mets were the best, no, the 2001 Mariners were the best defensive team in histo...ack, but what about the '96 Orioles? Gah, somebody figure out how to quantify defense, quickly!
2005-12-01 18:44:12
450.   Sam DC
Doug -- was just musing about your unreasonably prolonged absence a week ago. Hope your studies are going well.

I've been offline a few days; spent today wandering around an oil refinery wearing protective gear that matched the weight of my flesh and blood body. Oil refineries are big and complicated. Fun stuff, though hard to be away from family. And, of course, you all.

We still don't have a manager? Will people now agree at least that it's not going to be Jim Fregosi, on the "they would have hired him already if they wanted him" theory (which was scoffed at last time I raised it). I know a few Red Sox fans who are firmly invested in that line of reasoning vis-a-vis Jim Bowden.

Jon's list in the post hosting this comment thread is just really quite amazing when you step back and look at it. Who'd've thunk it?

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-12-01 18:48:30
451.   Sam DC
Oh, and I'm all over Jason Marquis. If I had my druthers, we'd just build the whole team around pithcers who can hit. Pry Livo away from the Nats, keep Weaver. Nab Marquis. Good fun.
2005-12-01 18:50:52
452.   trainwreck
That would mean re-signing Dreifort.
2005-12-01 18:52:23
453.   GoBears
449 Hmm, maybe you're right. Maybe it was the pitching that was historically great, not the defense. I do remember a persuasive statistical comparison that made the case, but your post reminds me that "persuasive statistical comparison" and "defense" don't really go together. Or maybe it was the pitching and defense together, as in "fewest runs allowed, adjusting for park and league and era. Sorry, I don't remember the details. But in any case, the point stands. Preventing runs is only half the battle, and the contribution of the middle infield is a small part or run prevention.
2005-12-01 18:53:38
454.   natepurcell
so im rewatching some of jacksons games this past season.. he pitched pretty well actually in his firt two starts in florida and against houston. he velocity was also up for both. in the florida game, steiner said jackson hit 97 on the gun in the second inning.

but then after houston, he made his next start in colorado, and that was when i first noticed the fb velocity slipping. then he was taken out of the game for back spasms and i guess continued to have them the remainder of the season. i am hopeful that it was the back spasms that zapped his fb velcoity and not because he cant throw fast anymore.

maybe i should ask gurnick a mailbag question about jackson and he he is doing with gagne..

2005-12-01 18:57:38
455.   Sam DC
452 What is his status? As hard as he seems to have worked through all this, I would hope we can give one more shot to come back, if he wants it and can earn it. With a whole slew of caveats, I'd love to see him pitch again for the Dodgers.
2005-12-01 19:05:20
456.   Bob Timmermann
All the reports I've read said that Dreifort is done as a pro athlete. His body has had too many surgeries. One doctor has said that he literally is injury-prone. It's a medical condition. Not brittle bones, but something like that.
2005-12-01 19:10:47
457.   Bob Timmermann
I guess no one else is wrapped up in the Mid-American Conference Championship game.

Northern Illinois leads Akron 24-10.

Akron, one of the best nicknames in college football: the Zips.

2005-12-01 19:13:46
458.   Sam DC
456 Drag, I mean, thanks.
2005-12-01 19:14:00
459.   dsfan
Here's a trade the LAT boys would love:

Kent to the Angels.

Angels are desperate for a big RH bat.

I'd ask for SS/3B Wood, 1B Kotchman and 2B Kendrick.

The Mets are liablle to do anything so for Kent I'd ask for:

CF Milledge, RHP Seo, RF Nady.

I'd try to send Gagne to the Red Sox for LHP Lester, RHP Papelbon, C Shoppach (spin him off, he has value).

Or to the Indians for Sizemore and a good young arm.

Or to the Phillies for LHP Hamel, RHP Floyd and CF Michaels.

If I couldn't get something like those deals, I'd keep them -- but now is the time to find out what you can get.

At least you'd have leverage, something the LAD sorely lack right now on many fronts.

2005-12-01 19:15:43
460.   natepurcell
everyone watch the 2nd inning of the astros game where jackson is piching... thats a glimpse of what he can be!!
2005-12-01 19:22:30
461.   Uncle Miltie
Elton Brand was named the Western Conference player of the month. He's finally getting some recognition.
2005-12-01 19:22:45
462.   das411
Why would anybody give up value for Gagne now when:

1) he is coming off of a pretty serious injury

2) it is pretty well known that he tried to return from said injury too early and that set his recovery back even farther

3) Hoffman, Wickman, and even Joe Table are out there and will likely accept less than what Gagne is locked in for?

2005-12-01 19:24:46
463.   trainwreck
Because Hoffman is 38 and those guys suck
2005-12-01 19:29:04
464.   Bob Timmermann
Speaking as someone 39 years and 346 days old, I think 38 is young.
2005-12-01 19:30:14
465.   trainwreck
Furcal situation has been updated at It basically says our offer is in the neighborhood of the Cubs. Which I believe means its less than the Cubs so he will sign with the Cubs.
2005-12-01 19:30:38
466.   Fearing Blue
#437: Haha.. thanks. I guess I'm just agreeing with the Nate's position. I'm happier with Ned spending too much on one player who is young and already better than average rather than the same amount across multiple players who are old and garbage.

Congratulations on passing the bar!

2005-12-01 19:32:50
467.   natepurcell
After watching targeted free-agent outfielder Brian Giles re-sign with rival San Diego, the Dodgers have made a substantial offer to free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal.
2005-12-01 19:33:32
468.   Fearing Blue
#450: Hi Sam. Studies are going very well and I'm considering switching into the Ph.D. program so I can teach. It looks like my thesis is going to be on basketball instead of baseball, but still nothing to complain about :).
2005-12-01 19:36:24
469.   D4P
What are you studying, FB?
2005-12-01 19:39:13
470.   King of the Hobos
"The Atlanta Braves and Chicago Cubs also remain in the bidding for Furcal, who would take over for the injured Cesar Izturis if he joined the Dodgers, with Izturis eventually sliding over to second base and Jeff Kent to first base if they land Furcal."

What happens if Kent refuses? If this is the plan, then we best not have Aybar at 3B. And if Choi breaks out, do we send him elsewhere or Izturis? Would the team that loses out on Furcal and Lugo have interest in taking Izzy?

2005-12-01 19:41:00
471.   Fearing Blue
#444: The problem with Repko being our 5th outfielder is that with Drew, Bradley, Cruz, and Werth being 1 through 4, the 5th outfielder is more likely to get 3rd outfielder playing time than 5th outfielder playing time. Repko's already 24 years old, has never shown much minor league success, and struck out in almost 27% of his plate appearances. As a point of reference, Hee-Seop "Hole In His Swing" Choi struck out in only 22% of his plate appearances and, unlike Scrapko, can take a walk and has some power. It's too bad he doesn't run into walls more often.
2005-12-01 19:41:41
472.   natepurcell
izturis needs to show that he has the arm strength to play shortstop after he comes back from TJ.
2005-12-01 19:41:45
473.   Fearing Blue
#469: Operations Research. It's a mixture of Optimization, Applied Probability, and Statistics.
2005-12-01 19:44:14
474.   Fearing Blue
#470: Yeah.. we definitely need to move Kent to 1B so we can make room for Izturis' bat. Until Ned proves otherwise, I'm holding out hope that's just media nonsense.

Izturis is still young.. once he's healthy we should be able to get a decent prospect for him from some chump like Bowden.

2005-12-01 19:47:04
475.   trainwreck
Rumor of Manny to Angels for Morales, Kendrick, and Kotchman
2005-12-01 19:47:52
476.   Bob Timmermann
You told me in Toronto that you didn't like basketball.

Have you discovered hoops in Cambridge?

2005-12-01 19:49:21
477.   Sam DC
It's too bad he doesn't run into walls more often.

Absence has sharpened the tongue, methinks.

2005-12-01 19:50:08
478.   zappala
No way do the Angels trade Morales, Kendrick, AND Kotchman.
2005-12-01 19:51:35
479.   King of the Hobos
471 Not to repeat it too much, but Repko would be our 6th OF, behind Ledee. Hopefully Young can leap him as well. If we're lucky, Ruggiano can leap over Repko as well
2005-12-01 19:52:22
480.   trainwreck
I do not even know what the Red Sox do with that. Kotchman a first baseman and Morales a bad first baseman who should DH and they already have that in David Ortiz.
2005-12-01 19:53:20
481.   Sam DC
473 A man after Danica McKellar's heart . . .
2005-12-01 19:53:45
482.   zappala
Type in "Manny Ramirez" to Google and you get:

Manny Ramirez at Amazon
Low prices on manny ramirez.
Qualified orders over $25 ship free

At least he ships free!

2005-12-01 19:56:31
483.   Steve
474 -- If the Izturis to second base plan goes, you've just neutralized any advantage you thought you were getting anyway, since Kent > Furcal. Though it would be fun, and fitting, to have a worse hitting second baseman than Alex Cora.
2005-12-01 19:57:11
484.   Andrew Shimmin
476- Bob! Don't you know that what happens in Toronto stays in Toronto?
2005-12-01 19:57:40
485.   D4P
What's your take on treating ordinal-level variables (such as those measured with Likert-type scales) as interval-level in regression analyses?
2005-12-01 19:57:46
486.   natepurcell
so if we sign furcal, where do we go from there?

what about a couple 1 yr with option deals to tony armas jr, kenny rogers, tomko, moyer..

maybe add nomar to play 3b.. he can play left too i suppose.

2005-12-01 20:02:51
487.   trainwreck
I would go with offering one year deals to Nomar and Rogers.
2005-12-01 20:06:43
488.   Steve
486 -- I'm still hoping he's heard about the LAPD.
2005-12-01 20:07:27
489.   Uncle Miltie
I think Furcal is using the Dodgers to get a bigger offer (from the Cubs or Braves. If I were I FA, I wouldn't choose the Dodgers over the Cubs, even though I like the city of LA better than Chicago

Which lineup would Furcal put up better numbers in?
Ramirez, etc.

Furcal would probably hit better in Chicago, but he'd probably make fewer errors in LA, because the field conditions are better at Dodger Stadium than in Wrigley Field.

2005-12-01 20:08:10
490.   sanchez101
its seems that if the Dodgers wanted Nomar to play 3rd and he could be signed to a one year contract, it wouldve already happened. Also, if the dodgers sign furcal, the cubs may become interested in retaining Nomar.
2005-12-01 20:08:27
491.   Uncle Miltie
Steve- tell us how you feel about Bradley and Abreu
2005-12-01 20:09:04
492.   natepurcell
so in the houston game, on jackson's 101th pitch, he hit 93 on the gun.

so, his fb velocity is still there. Okay, i think i feel better now that it was probably the back spasms that zapped his fb velocity and hes not going to turn into the next jerome williams.

2005-12-01 20:09:43
493.   trainwreck
Maybe he wants a better deal so he is trying to get one and in the end he will find out no one has confidence in him and he will take a one year deal.
2005-12-01 20:12:30
494.   GoBears
Furcal would probably hit better in Chicago, but he'd probably make fewer errors in LA, because the field conditions are better at Dodger Stadium than in Wrigley Field.

Right. And if he's smart and wants another contract after this one, he'll err on the side of offense. He already has teh great defensive rep (maybe even deserved). Once you get a rep as a good defender, you can't lose it, no matter how bad you get. Think Steve Finley, or even Derek Jeter, who never deserved it. But what brings in the big money is offense, especially for a SS. He wants to be Tejada, not Izturis.

2005-12-01 20:14:13
495.   natepurcell
dont the dodgers have a better chance at winning the NL west than the cubs at winning the NL central?
2005-12-01 20:14:22
496.   Uncle Miltie
Which is why I think he'll sign with the Cubs. Better lineup, better ballpark for his hitting style
2005-12-01 20:16:01
497.   trainwreck
I think he will go with whoever offers the most money.
2005-12-01 20:16:12
498.   Bob Timmermann
Dramatic ending in Detroit in the MAC championship!

You folks don't know what you're missing!

2005-12-01 20:16:15
499.   molokai
MB is not going to be a part of our outfield but I understand what your saying, just don't agree.

Jim Callis didn't seem to think that Morales was a bad 1st baseman and even said he could play 3b in a pinch. Saw him in Arizona and the power is impressive.

2005-12-01 20:17:30
500.   King of the Hobos
Rosenthal says Gordon to the Phillies in a 3 year deal
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2005-12-01 20:17:46
501.   brandesh
Can I get a Manny + CA$H for a Gagne?
2005-12-01 20:17:59
502.   trainwreck
Interesting. Everything I read said he was not much of a defensive player.
2005-12-01 20:18:43
503.   natepurcell
i think Morales can play 3b just as good as Mcpherson.... and thats not really a compliment towards morales :)
2005-12-01 20:19:20
504.   molokai
Maybe Furcal doesn't like the cold and that could be a factor if the contracts are similiar. I'm sure Ned is doing a selling job on how the team is going to be very competitive with the upcoming talent. Glad to see we are getting a face to face with the player.
2005-12-01 20:19:50
505.   Andrew Shimmin
Is there any testing/standardization of radar guns in the MLB or the minors? Everybody seems three MPH faster in SF. And I remember reading that Broxton was pushing three figures in AA, which was 5-7 MPH faster than he ever seemed to get in the bigs. Maybe somebody has a radar gun conversion chart somewhere?
2005-12-01 20:19:51
506.   natepurcell
wow, 3yr 18-21 mil for 38 yr old gordon?

thats a lot of dough.

2005-12-01 20:22:34
507.   natepurcell
And I remember reading that Broxton was pushing three figures in AA, which was 5-7 MPH faster than he ever seemed to get in the bigs. Maybe somebody has a radar gun conversion chart somewhere?

when broxton hit triple digits (101 exact), it was confirmed by all the scouts there on thier own radar guns as well. the dodger scouts clocked broxton at 101. I think the scouts would have theirs calibrated right.

also, another thing to realize that our AA team is in the south, specifical florida. The humidity and temp makes it easier for pitchers to loosen their arms and muscles thus maybe adding some extra velocity to the pitches.

2005-12-01 20:23:24
508.   molokai
That is amazing. Going into the winter I would have figured 3 years for 9 million would be the best he could hope for.
2005-12-01 20:24:24
509.   molokai
Pujols thought he threw pretty hard:)
2005-12-01 20:25:53
510.   natepurcell
remember when broxton struck pujols with that slider that just dropped off the table and landed 6 inches infront of homeplate? that was fun to watch :)
2005-12-01 20:31:05
511.   molokai
From my favorite scout
10. Dallas McPherson (3B, ANA): His season was limited to 205 AB (eight HR) because of bone spurs on his hip, which required surgery. The Angels could have used the power in his bat, as he possesses as much raw power as any young player. His defense improved to the point that he may be able to stay at 3B.

29. Kendry Morales (1B/OF, ANA): His season didn't get started until May due to visa issues, but was every bit the hitter projected, hitting .315 with a .534 SLG and 22 HR between two levels. He spent most of his time at 1B, but can play 3B and LF as well. A good spring training could give him a spot in 2006.

2005-12-01 20:33:44
512.   natepurcell
we should have signed morales.
2005-12-01 20:39:40
513.   Steve
506 -- I haven't heard one rumor about Colletti paying a ton of dough to a middle reliever yet. So that's a positive point.
2005-12-01 20:39:51
514.   Sam DC
Hector Carrasco to the Angels? the Giants?"

"According to a baseball source, Carrasco, 36, is set to sign with a West Coast team. The Angels, Mariners and Giants are vying for his services. According to the source, Carrasco is expected to get a two-year deal worth $6 million and may get another $1 million per season in incentives. . . . 'My gut is he is going to sign with the Angels,' said the source. 'If the Angels signed him, [the Nationals] will get their first-round pick, which would give them three picks in the first round. That's pretty significant.'

2005-12-01 20:40:23
515.   Steve
What's Abreu's problem?
2005-12-01 20:42:55
516.   Bob Timmermann

You know those "speedometer checks" on the high ways out in the middle of nowhere?

That's where scouts go to calibrate their radar guns.

2005-12-01 20:42:56
517.   Izzy
So the Dodger web site is saying if we sign Furcal he's at short, Izzy at second (eventually) and then Kent to first. That is 2 shifts in postion, that I am thinking they can both handle. I'm less sure of Kent at first though. Izzy's arm get's it a little easier after the TJS, which is definitely weird for a shortstop. We can build around the 2 longer contracts of Izzy and Furcal. Then we just need someone at third and another outfielder for this year. Next year, LaRoche and Loney at the corners. Sign Hochevar and we should be good for the long haul if the kids develop. His money doesn't look so bad to me right now, but I wouldn't quite give him what he wants, well, just because:)
On the manager front, I'm cool with Colletti taking his time. Just get the best we can get, and start over.
2005-12-01 20:51:43
518.   LAT
remember when broxton struck pujols with that slider that just dropped off the table and landed 6 inches infront of homeplate? that was fun to watch

Nate, at a time when I am frustrated by and suspect of everything Dodgers, your enthusiasm is refreshing.

2005-12-01 20:53:36
519.   LAT
515. Isn't that where Dennis Quaid practiced his fastball to see if he could get to the majors age 36.
2005-12-01 20:54:23
520.   dzzrtRatt
I bet the talk about Izzy moving to second base if the Dodgers get Furcal is a smokescreen. Camille Johnston is probably convinced that for Dodger fans, Izzy = Dukie, and that it would make McCourt! look uncompassionate if they replace an injured, popular player. So they've invented this alleged scheme that he'll play another position, second base. But that plan will go out the window if the Dodgers sign a FA first baseman, and/or if Choi is given the chance and succeeds.
2005-12-01 20:59:11
521.   natepurcell
if we sign furcal, our trading pieces come july 31st 2006


assuming gagne bounces back, kent is the kent of last year, odalis remembering he always does good in even years and izturis back to his 2004 form, those are great trading chips to bring in quality young high end prospects/young players

i want to keep lowe. with the way the pitching market is going, pitching 220+ innings every year with an era under 4 is probably worth what we are paying him, or close to it.

2005-12-01 21:00:20
522.   Andrew Shimmin
Remember that time when Gagne hit 103 up in SF, and then, later in the at bat, let Bonds knock one in to McCovey Cove? Yeah, bittersweet. It's possible that Gagne really was that fast, but it seems like everybody gets a little faster up at SBC. And at the BOB. Whoever configures their guns needs to avoid testing the equipment at the places listed here:
2005-12-01 21:00:36
523.   Uncle Miltie
"The Dodgers jumped into the bidding just this week, but have immediately made themselves a serious candidate with a three-year offer believed to be valued at an eye-opening $39 million. Kinzer wouldn't comment when asked whether the astonishingly high offer had been made.

"I can't comment on that," Kinzer said. "We're still talking with them. Things are going well. We haven't made any commitments."

Furcal called one of his closest friends from his native Dominican Republic and told him that the Dodgers had made this offer, but that there was still a chance something could be worked out that allowed him to stay with the Braves.

Is Colletti a mad man? Furcal is not worth $13 million a year. I'm surprised that he would rather offer Furcal more money, but fewer years.

2005-12-01 21:00:52
524.   natepurcell
oh wow, this article says dodgers offered furcal 3 yrs 39 mil...

2005-12-01 21:03:56
525.   Bob Timmermann
In "The Scout" that was a different type of speed device. I don't think that uses radar.

Texas highway authorities said that after seeing the movie, it was a cute scene, but those machines wouldn't be able to pick up something as small as a baseball.

I was referring to those things on the highway were you see "Mile 0" "Mile 1" up to "Mile 5".

Never figured out what they were for. I suppose you were supposed to drive 60 mph and see if it took 5 minutes.

2005-12-01 21:04:03
526.   Steve
Now we're talkin'
2005-12-01 21:04:45
527.   natepurcell
i think i like 5 yrs 50 mil better than 3 yrs 39 mil...

actually i dunno, i am quite shocked colletti is going that high- if its true.

2005-12-01 21:07:15
528.   Uncle Miltie
That's what Sheffield got. Ned is given $18 million to spend on FA's and he's prepared to blow $13 million of it on Furcal?
2005-12-01 21:07:56
529.   natepurcell
Ned is given $18 million to spend on FA's and he's prepared to blow $13 million of it on Furcal?

maybe the 18mil number isnt accurate?

2005-12-01 21:11:23
530.   trainwreck
Uhhhhhh so much for going after Nomar and a pitcher as well. I guess we got our answer to will Ned go crazy trying to sign Furcal after losing out on Giles just to get someone. Our maybe we have a bigger budget then expected? No, that can not be it.
2005-12-01 21:14:51
531.   natepurcell
we fight for furcal!

that is flanders motto this offseason.

sounds more like military dicatator slogan doesnt it?

2005-12-01 21:15:15
532.   Andrew Shimmin
If he really only has $18 million to work with, and he's dumping $13 mil. on Furcal that seriously imapairs my FA signing hopes. Maybe Hanson, Astacio, Ishii, and Encarnacion would be willing to take heavily back-loaded contracts though. I'm thinking Encarnacion at $2 mil./yr through 2011, and then $20 mil/yr 2012 and 2013. It's still do-able! Have no fear Dodger fans; help is on the way.
2005-12-01 21:15:35
533.   GoBears
There goes my Gagne-for-Abreu idea. The Flash Gordon contract seems the worst yet to me (well, other than the fact that Neifi is making more than zero). At his age (and quality)?!
2005-12-01 21:17:56
534.   Steve
I think that if Tom Meagher will still around, the marginal payroll argument he made about Derek Lowe's signing might apply here. I will say that if one is convinced that one must have Furcal, this is the way to go about it. Short contract, more money per year to buy yourself out of those tacked-on retirement years, and you put all your eggs in one basket. Not a good basket, but a better basket than having Plaschke force you into signing Jacque Jones and trading for Juan Pierre.

Colletti surprises me. I see the logic of the contract, if not the player it is being offered to.

2005-12-01 21:20:17
535.   trainwreck
There's a new sheriff in town!
2005-12-01 21:24:26
536.   fawnkyj
39mil is a nice bit of scratch. But if we dont get Furcal then 2 trades have to be made. One for a leadoff bat and one for a big bat. It means we give up more prospects, so i can see Ned is pulling out all the stops. i hope he has another deal lined up if this dont work.
2005-12-01 21:25:16
537.   natepurcell
Had San Diego general manager Kevin Towers not picked up the telephone at the exact moment he did Wednesday morning, free-agent outfielder Brian Giles would be the property of the Los Angeles Dodgers today.

damn you towers! damn you!

2005-12-01 21:26:25
538.   Andrew Shimmin
Who gets bumped off the 40 man roster if he picks up Furcall, now? When is the rule 5 draft?
2005-12-01 21:26:59
539.   Bob Timmermann
From the pen of Plaschke:

Perhaps [Drew] Olson's most impressive feat this year was not the 510 passing yards against Arizona State, but that he tossed a football to kids at the tailgate party afterward.

As a UCLA football fan, I was far more impressed by the 510 yards.

2005-12-01 21:32:35
540.   trainwreck
Well atleast the part where the article states Ned said he could take on Giles and Furcal is a good sign we have a bigger payroll then expected (too bad there is not much worth spending on).
2005-12-01 21:32:40
541.   sanchez101
536. The dodgers dont have to get furcal, generally when you decide you HAVE to get a player, your going to make a bad deal. I would be much happier trading for Lugo, I hope the Cubs do something really stupid.

537.i read that earlier today, absolutly sucks

2005-12-01 21:34:34
542.   Fearing Blue
#479: Good catch KotH. I guess I'm a little rusty. Of course, adding Ledee into the picture still means more playing time for Repko than I would like. Perhaps with a manager not named Tracy it won't be as much of an issue.
2005-12-01 21:34:54
543.   natepurcell
article also stated how giles had a sit down lunch with ned on saturday.. no one can fault flanders for not trying. he gave it his best shot.
2005-12-01 21:37:33
544.   Uncle Miltie
Not a good basket, but a better basket than having Plaschke force you into signing Jacque Jones and trading for Juan Pierre.
While it may take us out of the Joe Randa, Juan Pierre, and Jacque Jones race, that would still leave us a couple million to pursue Royce Clayton, J.T. Snow, and Kirk Rueter. Royce Clayton has play a game at 3B in his career.

C Navarro
1B Snow
2B Kent
SS Furcal
3B Clayton

When Izturis comes back at the deadline, Ned can trade Kent and play Izturis at 2B. Then we'll have the best infield defense in baseball!

2005-12-01 21:37:41
545.   trainwreck
Do not worry Flanders can bring in Rod and Todd to add to the offense.
2005-12-01 21:38:01
546.   Fearing Blue
#476: Wow. Good memory Bob. I've never really been into basketball, but the basketball is more interesting from a research perspective for a few reasons:

1) It's a lot harder to separate out team interaction effects and style of play.
2) Not as many people are working on it or have worked on it.
3) There's a better chance I may be able to work with an NBA team. fingers crossed

I've started watching a little basketball recently and it's more entertaining than I remember, especially the last 5-10 minutes of the game :).

2005-12-01 21:39:10
547.   trainwreck
I think Flanders is aware we need offense and won't go for JT Snow.
2005-12-01 21:40:34
548.   trainwreck
Mark Cuban of the Mavs has really gotten into statistical analysis for basketball, you should try to work for the Mavericks.
2005-12-01 21:40:46
549.   Steve
544 -- You make me sad. :)

What does Bradley have to do with Abreu? Is Abreu a headcase?

2005-12-01 21:41:36
550.   fawnkyj
I personally like Furcal, but i can see what you mean. I was just saying that Ned is looking to improve tis team with a leadoff bat and an RBI bat. He doesn't want to deplete the farm and if you trade for Lugo & then let's say Dunn for example, it will require 2 separate set of prospects to use.
What i'm saying is if you knock out one of those needs with cash in the FA market, you can keep the farm somewhat intact.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2005-12-01 21:44:21
551.   dzzrtRatt
If I were Furcal, I'd grab what Colletti's offering. He'll be young enough in 3 years to return to the FA market, and if he's as good as all that, he might be able to get $18 million a year in the next contract. The Cubs offer is, in this market, the equivalent of 'locking down' a talented young player.

It's ridiculous, but if we want him, that's what it's going to take. The weakness of the FA supply this season is dictating contracts whose ridiculousness will become legendary. Although last season was pretty absurd too.

But the argument that if we sign Furcal we can't sign other FA's means nothing. What other FA's?

If Furcal is a Dodger, the case against Milton Bradley just hit the shredder. Camille is probably already working on the talking points for when McCourt (or more likely Colletti) has to explain to Plaschke why the Dodgers have become a haven for criminals.

So, given that, we'll have a Drew/Bradley/Cruz outfield to complement our Choi/Kent/Furcal/LaRoche-Aybar infield, with Izzy and Werth re-emerging mid-season perhaps. I've seen worse.

2005-12-01 21:44:46
552.   Fearing Blue
#549: I agree. The only reason Furcal is worth so much to the Dodgers is because he eliminates a role for Izturis. Moving Kent to 1B to then play Izturis over Choi, Perez, and Aybar would be roughly equivalent to flushing the money we were considering investing in Furcal down the toilet.
2005-12-01 21:46:51
553.   trainwreck
Not to mention Flanders is trying to make additions so Kent does not demand a trade, because we all know how much Flanders loves Kent.
2005-12-01 21:50:07
554.   Steve
FB, if you're still around, who on the above list of managers will spare me the pain of having to register another domain name?
2005-12-01 21:50:19
555.   trainwreck
Plus there is that whole PR thing which seems to be the reasoning behind everything for McCourt.
2005-12-01 21:53:31
556.   LAT
Let's remember that even though they had Giles last year the Pods barely finished above .500. I would have liked to have had him, but the Pods retaining him does not a champion make.

Favorite line from the article: "And today, he is emblematic of the changed fortunes of the Padres and the Dodgers."

Should read: And today, he is emblematic of the changed fortunes of [everyone] and the Dodgers.

2005-12-01 21:56:27
557.   Steve
Yes, it's not like the old days where future Hall-of-Famers like Darryl Strawberry and Eric Davis lined up around the block to sign with the Dodgers.
2005-12-01 22:03:28
558.   Fearing Blue
#554: Shrug. It seems like Fregosi is the only clear candidate for a domain name. Based on the recent media coverage you may want to lock it up now before Rob beats you to it :).
2005-12-01 22:05:23
559.   dzzrtRatt
555 The PR thing is probably McCourt! telling Colletti, "you f-d up getting Giles, you better not make me look like a pathetic loser with Furcal. I don't care what it takes, just sign the little punk."
2005-12-01 22:05:30
560.   LAT
Ratt, I hope you are right. I hope Camille is preparing some drivel for why we are going to keep MB--just as long as we keep him. I'm betting we do keep him, or at least tender a contract. He is the cheapest and best solution to the problem and Frank usally follows the money. On the other hand, Frank rarely comes up with the best solution, so its anybody's guess.

Well that was short lived. After reading Nate's posts tonight, I was trying to think positive. I'll keep trying.

2005-12-01 22:11:22
561.   caseybarker

Trade Gagne?! He brought this franchise back from the dead. He's the reason fans now stay till the end of the game. And with him,we will have the best bullpen, and therefore the best staff for years to come.

2005-12-01 22:14:14
562.   dzzrtRatt
560 LAT, I think you have to take the position that until McCourt! has branded himself into bankruptcy and oblivion, the Dodgers's off-field activities will be the real show, and the baseball team's performance will be the encore. I'm having a blast, to be honest about it. Simers' column this morning was like a jolt of espresso. I've hated Simers for years--now I love him! To watch a prominent business run by such an incompetent boob, and watching it play out in a very public way--that's not just a meteor shower, it's an undiscovered comet.

Our J-ville kids will make this all a lot less painful, down the road. We are not going to be talking about McCourt! in the present tense for too many more years, I firmly believe.

2005-12-01 22:14:59
563.   natepurcell
Trade Gagne?! He brought this franchise back from the dead. He's the reason fans now stay till the end of the game. And with him,we will have the best bullpen, and therefore the best staff for years to come.

if gagne comes back and pitches like he did before, boras is going to demand a 5 yr 70mil contract for him at the end of next year.

as good as he is, that is just something i am not willing to do.

2005-12-01 22:17:56
564.   sanchez101
550. I think it would be unwise to not trade at least one or two prospects. Look, im as big a advocate for the Dodgers farm system as anyone, but they are not all going to turn to gold. Some are going to flop, maybe the Dodgers should have traded Jackson in the winter of 2003 to CHW for Carlos Lee, last year wouldve been much more competative. How about Hanrahan, we couldnt trade him for a half-decent reliever now; do any of us regret trading Franklin Gutierrez?

Sitting back and saying "we're going to protect farm system, so no prospects are getting traded" is the easy way out. The smart thing to do is try to identify the players that are overrated right now, and since the Dodgers know these players better than anyone it shouldnt be much of a problem. The Atlanta Braves have built a dynasty on the backs of busted pitching prospects they traded at the right time.

Gettin Lugo would be a perfect move (watduya know, the Braves are interested in him), he wouldnt cost a boat load of prospects and certainly not one of Guzman/Laroche/Billingsley, we're not talking about Carlos Delgado or Josh Beckett here. Then you either sign him long term, or let him walk after 2006 and take the two draft picks and recoup the prospects you traded.

I think Furcal is worth $10 million, Lugo is almost the same player and gets paid half as much.

2005-12-01 22:29:06
565.   caseybarker
Hell, I'll pay $20 a ticket all day to sit in the cheap seats and watch Gagne dazzle. Besides, there has to be another team willing to pay that 5/70 contract.

I think the Dodgers will be fine. Remember the optimism at the beginning of last year?

2005-12-01 22:29:48
566.   LAT
562. Ratt, that's the right attitude! I too have developed a liking for Simmers as he "outs" the McCourt's at every turn. I think I would be able to enjoy this trainwreck if McCourt weren't making so much money. But I suspect that if this year is as bad as last by June there will be 10,000 fans per game. Also, here is irony, if the Clippers make the playoffs or go deep in them, it will really hurt Dodger attendence the first month or so. Imagine, the Clippers keeping fans away from Dodger Stadium. Who could have ever predicted that.
2005-12-01 22:37:26
567.   trainwreck
kobe better thank the refs if the Lakers win this game.
2005-12-01 22:37:32
568.   sanchez101
for anyone watching the lakers, kobe has ice running in his veins
2005-12-01 22:39:44
569.   Bob Timmermann
Simers' alma mater, Northern Illinois, lost the MAC championship game on a long TD pass by Akron.

The game was held in Detroit. The winner of the game got a spot in the ... Motor City Bowl ... in Detroit.

I'm really wondering what the reward was supposed to be. It's not exactly like UCLA winning a spot in the Rose Bowl.

2005-12-01 22:39:50
570.   sanchez101
567. the refs have been calling a close 4th, that was no "gift" by the refs
2005-12-01 22:41:10
571.   Bob Timmermann
There have been 68 fouls called in the game.
2005-12-01 22:41:52
572.   LAT
Strange. Yahoo has the Laker game listed as a "final" 92-92 tie.
2005-12-01 22:43:13
573.   natepurcell
ah man, the laker game was on tnt.. i totally forgot!
2005-12-01 22:43:31
574.   underdog
Yeah, speaking of basketball, the Lakers really caught a break on that one. After blowing a lead in a game they dominated... Well, they'll take whatever break they can.

As for Simers, I can't stomach anything he writes, it's the worst sort of rabid, empty-headed journalism. He beats the same drum over and over again. Tiresome. And I'm sorry to sound cranky, but I too am a bit tired of all the trade Gagne talk here. Let's see how he does next season. But he not only does great things for the team as far as wins, he really excites the crowd, and that second thing was sorely missed last season when he was injured. If we have to pay an arm and a leg to keep him later, so be it. If we lose him to FA eventually, instead, so be it. But let's see what he can do next season because spiritually we need him. Maybe eventually Broxton or someone can be our next Gagne, but for now...


2005-12-01 22:48:11
575.   Steve
Paul LoDuca = Bob Scheer? Yep, that's about right.
2005-12-01 22:48:22
576.   natepurcell
oops kobe fouled out...
2005-12-01 22:50:09
577.   trainwreck
Turiaf's rebounding ability would be pretty useful on this team.
2005-12-01 22:50:17
578.   sanchez101
that was a stupid foul by kobe
2005-12-01 22:52:36
579.   trainwreck
Why does Vujacic keep slicking his eyebrows before he shoots free throws? hahahaha
2005-12-01 22:53:28
580.   Bob Timmermann
Marv Albert can't pronounce "Slovenia".
2005-12-01 22:53:41
581.   natepurcell
2005-12-01 22:53:53
582.   sanchez101
2005-12-01 22:54:13
583.   Rob M
It's painful for me to watch Kobe play now. How far backwards has he gone since that incredible playoff run during the seconde title year. I remember him putting up 45 and 10 in game 1 vs. the Spurs after going 48 and 16 in game 4 vs. the Kings. And he was playing completely within the flow of the team offense. Now he's morphed into Ricky Davis. It's so depressing.
2005-12-01 22:54:28
584.   natepurcell
sasha= our steve kerr!?!??!
2005-12-01 22:54:40
585.   trainwreck
Wow, Sasha with the big shot.
2005-12-01 22:54:53
586.   Uncle Miltie
Lakers are playing much better. I wonder why...oh, Kobe's not in the game.
2005-12-01 22:54:59
587.   sanchez101
579. maybe he learned some tricks from the angel bullpen :)
2005-12-01 22:58:24
588.   Bob Timmermann
With the number of fouls and the overtime, this game is looking like the 18-inning playoff game between the Braves and Astros.

Or Game 3 of the World Series.

Alexander Vujacic = Geoff Blum

2005-12-01 23:00:32
589.   King of the Hobos
Back to baseball for a moment. Millwood is looking at 5 years, $50 million. Obviously seems a little much. He's going to get a Lowe deal as a minimum, so I'd guess our interest isn't real high
2005-12-01 23:02:00
590.   natepurcell
brandon sing should be chois platoon partner.
2005-12-01 23:11:42
591.   sanchez101
if we get furcal, we should trade izturis to the cubs for sing
2005-12-01 23:13:51
592.   molokai
I think Choi could hit LHP better then Sing would be able to hit them. If you want a platoon partner there are plenty who are better then Sing. There is a reason he is not on the Cubs 40 man roster.
2005-12-01 23:16:06
593.   natepurcell
these are sings numbers in the southern league this year:

276/.404/.538 26 homeruns.

now, if we could find his splits against lefties, then we might be in business here.

also, i think hes not on the cubs 40 man roster is because he is basically a younger version of Olmedo saenz and they have Dlee.

sing would be worth a flyer on in the rule 5 draft.

2005-12-01 23:20:55
594.   Paul B
564 Regarding the trading of prospects. In the end I think you're right. The nerve-wracking bit is deciding which ones to let go. As a means of procrastinating tonight, I was looking over the Baseball America all-time top 100 prospect lists, which go back to 1990. It is something of a tragic journey for Dodgers fans. To wit:

Last year, the Dodgers let the majors with seven players on the top 100 list. It is, of course, great news. The cautionary tale is that the last time the Dodgers had that many "top" prospects (1991), these were they:

Jose Offerman (#4 overall) (!)
Raul Mondesi (14)
Henry Rodriguez (29)
Jamie McAndrew (40)
Kiki Jones (43)
Dan Opperman (71)
Tom Goodwin (74)
Eric Karros (94)

So, two guys never made it to the bigs, and McAndrew wracked up a total of 55.2 innings. Goodwin makes Repko look like Mantle. HRod had some productive years, but only with other teams. Offerman has had an improbably long career, distinguished only by his incredibly shoddy fielding at SS. So that leaves the two ROYs, which all in all is probably a pretty good take, but shows the odds of any one prospect amounting to much.

More painful to me was the 1993 list:
Piazza (38)
Pedro (62)
Mondesi (82)
Cedeno (85)

Hmm..two first ballot HOFers and one ROY/All-Star. Sounds like a pretty good core for years of postseason success...

Anyway, it's a pretty interesting stroll down memory/nightmare lane.

2005-12-01 23:25:02
595.   sanchez101
sing seems very similar to travis hafner through the same age, only righthanded
2005-12-01 23:26:53
596.   natepurcell
if depo was still here, i think he would be targeting sing in the rule 5 draft. he just seems like a depo aquisition.

get around a 850 OPS at 1b for around 1 mil.

2005-12-01 23:28:54
597.   molokai
I saw him in the AFL and was unimpressed. I'll try to dig out the AFL scouting report on him. His stat line
Brandon Sing .246/.338/.464 10/24 BB/K, 3 HR.
Considering he was 24 and older then just about all the hitters that was a poor performance for the AFL. Maybe he was tired but I found it strange that with those AA numbers the Cubs didn't protect him. Your right he might be worth a flyer.

Still wish the Dodgers had protected Carlos Alveraz but I've never seen him pitch. I loved the stat line in A ball for the 20 year old.

2005-12-01 23:30:22
598.   Paul B
Follow up: does anyone have the sense that BA, or similar evaluators of minor league talent, is become better at identifying who might make it at the next level?
2005-12-01 23:32:45
599.   molokai
Kiki Jones and Opperman were the top rated HS pitchers when we drafted them. Kiki was very impressive before he blew his arm up. I don't remember how Opperman did before he blew his arm up. I remember the Kiki Jones draft, we had 3 number 1 picks and I think only Goodwin made it to the majors but I could be wrong. Just working from memory.
2005-12-01 23:33:47
600.   natepurcell
alvarez could become this years carvajal... i hope not, i like alavarez.
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2005-12-01 23:34:18
601.   molokai
High praise indeed. I wonder how Einer Diaz is doing these days. Have we ever made a trade like that in our favor?
2005-12-01 23:34:48
602.   Xeifrank
Great win for the Lakers, I think they played better when Kobe was resting on the bench or after he fouled out. The refs had an off night. Missed big calls on both sides, so perhaps it evened out.

Meaningless stat of the night... in the Dodgers first 54 games of the season last year the team that received more walks won 43 of them. vr, Xei

2005-12-01 23:36:25
603.   natepurcell
craig wilsons' 3yr splits vs lefties:

268AB 18hr


2005-12-01 23:41:39
604.   natepurcell
matt lecroy's 3yr splits vs lefties:

345ABs 24hr


and lecroy is a free agent!

2005-12-01 23:42:49
605.   Paul B
599 Pretty good memory. Baseball cube says that in '89, the Dodgers selected Kiki, Goodwin and the aforementioned McAndrew. Kiki never made it to the bigs, McAndrew had 55.2 innings over a few years. And Goodwin became that most useful of players: the speed merchant/pinch-runner.
2005-12-01 23:46:56
606.   natepurcell
wes helms 3yr splits vs lefties:

241ABs 10hr


2005-12-01 23:50:52
607.   sanchez101
i like helms because he can also play 3rd, is he a free agent?
2005-12-01 23:52:04
608.   natepurcell
yea, helms is a free agent and is listed as a 3b.
2005-12-01 23:54:34
609.   FirstMohican
Helms made 2.8 last year while LeCroy made .75

LeCroy might be cheaper and could backup Navarro/Martin while platooning with Choi.

Good ideas Nate, Coletti should cut you a check.

2005-12-01 23:56:12
610.   FirstMohican
Although LeCroy only played an inning at C last year. Wonder why?
2005-12-01 23:56:13
611.   natepurcell
helms is 29, wilson is 29 and lecroy is 30.

i think lecroy or helms can be had for one yr with 2nd yr option deals.

who do you guys like better?

2005-12-01 23:57:40
612.   GoBears
607 So Helms is Olmedo Lite?

594 What strikes me about those lists is how far Mondesi dropped from 1991 to 1993. His stagnation hit before he even got here. A raw talent to be sure, but also a huge disappointment.

2005-12-01 23:58:36
613.   FirstMohican
I like Wilson, but LeCroy would work best to fit the Dodgers' needs.
2005-12-02 00:02:33
614.   sanchez101
lecroy's bat is nice, but he cant even play first base, his career rate at 1st is 88 and getting worse, besides i think we need depth at 3rd more than catcher
2005-12-02 00:04:19
615.   natepurcell
a little more analysis

all these stats are 3yr splits vs left handed pitching:

helms= .203
lecroy= .211

helms= .132
lecroy= .106

helms= 208
lecroy= 247

2005-12-02 00:06:36
616.   natepurcell
both players have pretty shotty home and away splits though.
2005-12-02 00:08:07
617.   Bob Timmermann
If you go over to Baseball Analysts, you can read the excerpt posted from the Bill James Almanac which mentions that Matt Lecroy never once took an extra base on a hit as a baserunner. You want to score Lecroy from third? You better hit a home run.
2005-12-02 00:08:36
618.   natepurcell
I think wilson would be the best fit but he would have to be acquired in a trade.
2005-12-02 01:26:39
619.   dsfan
Gagne got $10 million or so last year to sit the DL. Great though he's been, no reason to get sentimental over him. You think he'll be sentimental about the LAD if he has even a decent year and Boras takes him to free agency?

See if Cleveland will give up Coco Crisp, Brandon Phillips (possible SS) and a decent young arm for him and Repko. If the pitcher is Sowers, throw in Ledee.

The Indians are dying for a closer.

Crisp is young, durable, has some power, good LF, adequate CF, pretty good No. 2 hitter, might be decent leadoff man. You'd finally have an OF who is a legit starter and not a health risk. That's a pretty nifty peg.

Then take the $8 million in savings and plow it into the Fucal/Nomar overpay fund and maybe sign a stopgap closer such as (gasp) Todd Jones. If Jones craps out, maybe Brazo or Sanchez will be ready, but maybe Jones gives you a pretty good first half.

The time is now, not July to do something like this.

2005-12-02 04:27:08
620.   gcrl
i have had the "pleasure" of watching lecroy play in person at the metrodome, and i have concluded that he is slower than jason phillips. he is a bit of a fan fave here (heart and soul, anyone) so i wouldn't be surprised if somehow he wound up back with the twinkies.
2005-12-02 06:23:36
621.   the count
I thought I read somewhere that LeCroy has gout or something like that. That is why really can't play everyday or move around much when he does.

I can't verify that, I just thought I read it somewhere.

2005-12-02 07:10:55
622.   FirstMohican
"He's also the pin-up boy for the anti-steroid movement. I like to think Matthew and I have brought gout back into vogue."
--Stelmaszek who, along with LeCroy, suffers from gout

2005-12-02 07:19:59
623.   D4P
Furcal's Home-Road splits:

Home: .321/.383/.508/.891
Road: .246/.311/.346/.657

Home: .306/.372/.448/.820
Road: .266/.325/.412/.737

2005-12-02 07:27:02
624.   Sushirabbit
Off topic, but I think I heard of this here. Went to check it out and found it amusing:
2005-12-02 07:34:24
625.   King of the Hobos
Sorry if this has already been posted

"'If Furcal is on this team, we'd still have a place for Izturis,' Colletti said. 'He's a good player.'

Colletti said he has not approached Kent about playing first, but that "if something presents itself, I'd certainly go to him ahead of time."

It's probably not smart to not ask Kent before signing Furcal. Unless the Colletti quote means we have a place for Izturis--on another team

2005-12-02 07:38:11
626.   D4P
Do we have any idea when Izturis is supposed to be able to play again? Will he be ready at the beginning of the season?
2005-12-02 07:49:05
627.   regfairfield
626 Last I heard was July.
2005-12-02 07:49:11
628.   SMY
If Izturis is traded my heart-and-soul friends will have a meltdown. They already blame his failure to win a gold glove last season on Jeff Kent. Seriously.
2005-12-02 07:49:16
629.   the count
Izturis will not be ready until about the All Star break.
2005-12-02 07:52:24
630.   regfairfield
628 They don't blame it on the fact that he missed two months?

To be fair, I never realized that Kent's defense was so bad it hurt everyone elses around him.

2005-12-02 07:53:37
631.   D4P
Well, that's good news. Hopefully that will mean
(1) Choi is the starting 1B for the first half of the season, and
(2) Choi plays well enough to convince Colletti that Hee should play first and Kent (if not traded) should stay at 2B, and
(3) Izturis doesn't NEED to be in the lineup at all costs.
If Izturis' primary contribution is his defense at SS, and if his defense is so good that it makes up for his weak hitting, then it makes no sense to move him to 2B, where his hitting would be even more of a liability and his defense less of an asset.
2005-12-02 07:55:06
632.   SMY
630 Their position is that they don't like Jeff Kent because he can't play defense, and that this inability to play defense cost Izturis a gold glove. They didn't mention anything about him missing two months. Or if they did, I didn't hear it over my swearing.
2005-12-02 07:55:48
633.   Xeifrank
I hope the Dodgers don't sign Furcal, especially if it means moving Izzy over to 2B and Kent to 1B, even if the Kent move to 1B is only against LHP. Choi's splits are good enough not to warrant sitting him in favor of Izzy vs LHP. I like some of the creative trade scenarios for Gagne, but I don't think Gagne is ever going to be traded by this owner and GM. A Gagne trade would be only something Depodesta would have the balls to do. Gagne is too "popular" an icon and the "face" of the organization. No way, McCourt and his crack PR staff allow Gagne to be traded. vr, Xei
2005-12-02 08:01:28
634.   molokai
I'm a big Wilson fan because he crushes lefties and can hit righties at a decent clip. He is not just a platoon partner. His 3 year split between 2001-2004 shows him with a OPS of 988 against LHP and 803 against RHP. He can't play 3b, but he can play RF or LF, and 1st base. He slow but not slow enough you cringe when he gets on base. He makes more money then Helms or LeCroy but he's better. I think he's making 3 mill this year and I'd love to acquire him. He could play the outfield until our boys are healthy. He could play 1st if Choi struggles against LHP. He could play 1st period if Choi just plain struggles. Throw out his stats in 2005 because he had a finger injury and lost two months plus whatever problems players have with injuries involving the hands. Did I mention I'm a huge C Wilson fan?
2005-12-02 08:01:32
635.   regfairfield
632 I need to further research this idea of a "suck aura".
2005-12-02 08:09:59
636.   SMY
"Suck Aura", I like that. Also could be known as The Neifi Effect.
2005-12-02 08:12:18
637.   molokai
LeCroy needs to play in the AL. I'd hate to see him in the NL clogging up our bases and making a mockery of playing 1st base.
2005-12-02 08:16:14
638.   molokai
Did anyone catch Gammons talking about the A's trying to acquire Milton this morning?
2005-12-02 08:18:02
639.   FirstMohican
LeCroy can make Choi's defense look great, and can make (if he's unfortunately still on the team) Phillips' speed look adequate.
2005-12-02 08:21:37
640.   Bob Timmermann
I think Gammons said that someone on the A's had a child in college who had to read Milton was complaining about it.
2005-12-02 08:47:09
641.   dzzrtRatt
628 What'd I tell ya?! Colletti's public musing about moving Izzy to second and Kent to first is just propaganda to prevent Izzy fans from going postal if Furcal is signed.

Don't get me wrong, I like Izturis, and I believe a healthy Izturis can hit, as he did in '04 and the first 8 weeks of this season. I don't think Furcal is worth $13 million, but if you had him, of course you'd trade Izturis, and if he was healthy, you could get decent value for him. And, I'm sure Colletti thinks that by July, the fans will have forgotten all about Izzy.

2005-12-02 08:50:59
642.   jasonungar05
The Gagne watch: where we stand.

Its like an old school gagne first hitter in the ninth

96 MPH Fastball Strike one--you need to add a 40 home-run guy
78 MPH Change up Strike 2- and a guy who hits .310
98 MPH Fastball strike 3 - You need to re-sign Jeff Weaver, the innings he gives us are priceless.

Now it's only Dec 2. But according to Gagne's tirade at the end of the season "were the f'in dodgers" Ned still has some work to do. Furcal or not.

2005-12-02 08:57:36
643.   molokai
That was a lot of talk coming from a guy who gave the Dodgers 13 innings while eating up around 13% of the budget. It would be different if the man had actually contributed in 2005.
2005-12-02 08:58:15
644.   TheDictator
Hopefully Ned "Flanders" Colletti looks into Furcal's age before possibly signing him. As a grad student at Emory, I watched a lot of Braves games.

I remember reading a Journal-Constitution article about Furcal being charged with drunk driving. Given that he was supposedly 20 years old at the time, I found it interesting that he was not charged with underaged drinking.

Something to think about . . .

2005-12-02 09:00:06
645.   blue22
I think Furcal already had his "3 birthday" offseason, where it was discovered he was 2 years older than listed.
2005-12-02 09:08:30
646.   molokai
Your correct, in Feb 2002 as with all the age gate players after 9/11 he was found to be 2 years older.
2005-12-02 09:19:04
647.   blue22
I can't find any reports of this 3/39M or 3/45M offer anywhere but here. Where did that news come from?
2005-12-02 09:42:45
648.   still bevens
2005-12-02 09:44:06
649.   jasonungar05
I hear ya Molokai. I think it's funny, thats all.

There were like 9 40 home run guys last year. 2 are on the market (1 left) and were not going after either. And maybe Dunn can be had..

As for hitters over .310..well Damon is available and he is too spendy. The other 9 aren't really going anywhere, although Sean Casey can probabably be had.

As for Weaver? We are a Driver, 2-iron, pitching wedge, chip shot from the fringe and a 3 putt away.

2005-12-02 09:44:20
650.   dzzrtRatt
Somewhat baseball-related. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson has claimed in past official biographies that he was drafted by the A's. This turns out to be untrue. The episode prompted this amusing column:

Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2005-12-02 09:49:07
651.   Bob Timmermann
As for Weaver? We are a Driver, 2-iron, pitching wedge, chip shot from the fringe and a 3 putt away.

So somebody was watching me play at the local Par 3 course, eh?

2005-12-02 09:51:58
652.   jasonungar05
LOL: exactly Bob. Me too. Although, who am I kidding, it should be Driver, 5 iron, 7 iron, wedge, wedge, 2 putt and a 2 foot "thats a gimme"

2 iron my butt.

2005-12-02 09:52:55
653.   Bob Timmermann
So, we'll just call that a "4", won't we?
2005-12-02 09:54:42
654.   slackfarmer
641 If Colletti thinks the fans will forget Izzy by July, he is in for a rude surprise. Furcal is a notoriously slow starter. Here are his pre-all star numbers from last year: .254 ave .310 obp .393 slg .703 ops. Yep, a whopping .703 OPS -- worse than pre-injured Izzy (.711 OPS in 2004).

If Tracy were still the manager, he would bench Furcal before he even heated up, then write him off as a loser with a hole in his swing.

2005-12-02 09:55:04
655.   jasonungar05
This is pretty incredible: (he should be in the hall of fame.)

During the 12-year stretch from 1975-86, Jim Rice led the AL in games, at-bats, runs, hits, home runs, RBI, total bases, slugging percentage, extra-base hits, go-ahead RBI, multi-hit games and outfield assists. He was fourth in both triples and batting average in that span.

2005-12-02 10:00:14
656.   jasonungar05
yep...that's 1 over.
2005-12-02 10:22:41
657.   Vishal
i'd never heard of jim rice. but looking at his stats, it's odd that for someone who hit so many triples, he was a horrible baserunner. he regularly had more triples than stolen bases, and his sb% was pretty abysmal.
2005-12-02 10:24:04
658.   Bob Timmermann

Please tell me you're kidding about Jim Rice.


Or else I'm heading off to my nearest gas stove to end it all.

2005-12-02 10:24:33
659.   Kayaker7
657 You never heard of the all-time career leader in HBP? Maybe Biggio surpassed him recently, but with assistance of padding. ;-)
2005-12-02 10:28:23
660.   Jon Weisman
657 -"I've never heard of Jim Rice."


659 - Are you confusing Jim Rice with Don Baylor?

Anyway, I took a sick day yesterday. Thanks to everyone for holding the fort. New post above.

2005-12-02 10:30:40
661.   Rob M
659 you're thinking of Don Baylor.

I can't fathom not knowing Jim Rice. You must my mighty young. I remember when I first rabidly followed the Dodgers in 77 and 78, Jim Rice was the unquestioned best player in the AL. In 1978, RoN Guidry was 25-3 with a ERA below 2.00 for the penant winning Yankees, and Rice still was the MVP on the strength of a monster year. I think that was the first time in a few decades that a guy had over 400 total bases.

2005-12-02 10:30:47
662.   Marty
Jim Rice, Jim Rice. Hmmm name seems familiar...
2005-12-02 10:34:42
663.   Vishal
i was born in 1981, and i paid absolutely zero attention to the red sox and pretty much the entire american league, outside of watching the postseason and a few angels games until the mid- to late-90s. i grew up pretty much as purely a national league fan.
2005-12-02 10:37:44
664.   Kayaker7
Yeah, I confused Rice and Baylor. They look similar, don't they?



Uh...maybe not.

2005-12-02 10:40:04
665.   Jon Weisman
663 - But, like, you have heard of some players from before 1981, right? :)
2005-12-02 10:42:49
666.   dzzrtRatt
Rice and Baylor are two univerities in Texas that are mostly known for football. Could that be the confusion?

Bob, we have to keep in mind, there are babies on this site. I don't think Nate Purcell is much older than my son. I guarantee you my son has never heard of Jim Rice. He probably hasn't even heard of Carlton Fisk.

2005-12-02 10:44:57
667.   Vishal
hahah, a few, yeah. but not jim rice for some reason. i have some strange gaps in my awareness. like my lack of familiarity with a lot of classic rock, for example. i blame that one on my father being from an older generation (not to mention another culture), though.
2005-12-02 10:54:59
668.   regfairfield
I guess that makes you as baseball savvy as Choi.
2005-12-02 11:09:37
669.   fanerman
I suppose I'm a baby, too (probably younger than Nate). But I've heard of Jim Rice.
2005-12-02 11:22:04
670.   Jon Weisman
666 - "I guarantee you my son has never heard of Jim Rice. He probably hasn't even heard of Carlton Fisk."

Fair enough. Neither has mine.

2005-12-02 11:48:30
671.   Blu2
664---Well, they're both big Universities, easy to confuse them. Wasn't Rice the player who was adraid of flying?
2005-12-02 13:25:19
672.   Blu2
671-- That's "afraid", not 'sdraid'. Might not have been rice, might have been Jackie Jenson, the other Sox outfielder of that era.

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