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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
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Los Angeles Bruins of Pasadena at Los Angeles Trojans
2005-12-03 08:18
by Jon Weisman

The excitement for the UCLA-USC game, 20-plus point spread or not, is why it's worth rooting for both the Angels and Dodgers to be great.

It's only football, but here's hoping for a great show.

Comments (210)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-12-03 08:34:01
1.   Rich Lederer
I'll be there. Am heading out in a few minutes.

Bob T. told me that the Bruins won three of the four years he was at UCLA. I told him, "That's funny, most of my friends who went to UCLA tell me that USC beat them five or six times while they were in school!"

Go Trojans!

2005-12-03 08:37:03
2.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA has a shorter ride to the game for this road game than for its home games.

I predict that UCLA comes out very slowly with its timing thrown off by the long layoff. USC's timing doesn't matter when Reggie Bush can just carry the ball through the UCLA defense.

Trojans go up 28-0 enroute to a 52-28 win.

UCLA goes on to the Sun Bowl to play their Big 10 doppelganger: Northwestern.

USC goes on to play in El Abuelito de Todo!

2005-12-03 08:37:08
3.   the OZ
ESPN said that UCLA's keys to victory were Maurice Drew's punt returns. As if they're ever going to force USC to punt.

That said, Go Bruins!

2005-12-03 08:39:13
4.   D4P
!Ay, Nellita!
2005-12-03 08:40:42
5.   Bob Timmermann
Desculpe, El Abuelito de Todo, presentado por Citi!
2005-12-03 08:47:38
6.   Vishal
so does oregon get a bcs bid, or does the pac-10 get the short end of the stick AGAIN? i wish the pac-10 could pull out of the bcs until they come up with something better.
2005-12-03 08:49:24
7.   D4P
Permiten que se digo sobre el Reggie Bush!

(My Spanish is oxidado)

2005-12-03 08:50:24
8.   Bob Timmermann
I think Oregon's chances of getting a BCS bid are really low.

However in this case, I don't think Oregon is getting a raw deal. I really don't think Oregon is all that good. I think Oregon is on a par with UCLA and I don't think UCLA deserves a BCS unless it were to beat USC today.

And even then, UCLA won't get a BCS bid.

2005-12-03 08:50:47
9.   D4P
Oregon will not get a BCS bid. Sad but true.
2005-12-03 09:06:30
10.   Vishal
well, regardless of how good you think oregon is, it is 10-1 with its only loss coming against USC, and it is ranked #7 fair and square. there's no reason why it shouldn't get a BCS bid. it seems that every year, some pac-10 team gets screwed. i don't care too much about oregon particularly, but as a pac-10 guy, i think it's incredibly unfair that this happens so often to our conference.
2005-12-03 09:09:11
11.   King of the Hobos
I'm going to go off topic for a moment...

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram says "The Los Angeles Dodgers are emerging as strong suitors for Alfonso Soriano." I'm not quite sure why we would want him. Even if we were going to trade Kent, Soriano is worse defensively and offensively, and whatever we got for Kent would be balanced out by what we give up for Soriano. I'm hoping this is a worthless rumor

The NY Daily News reports a Well-Loretta swap could happen, because the Padres want Nomar to play 2B. I guess they want to block Barfield some more

Sorry to interupt the football chat, we can get back to that now

2005-12-03 09:16:13
12.   D4P
They want Soriano so they can move Kent to 1B.
2005-12-03 09:20:34
13.   Bob Timmermann
I think we should kick off the football chat by watching the Conference USA championship game between Tulsa and Central Florida.

The teams have uniforms that look quite similar. Tulsa is wearing with gold helmets. Central Florida is wearing white pants with pale gold jerseys and helmets.

Central Florida leads 7-0!

Go ...... Knights.

The winner goes to the Liberty Bowl to play Fresno State, which has lost three straight games.

2005-12-03 09:23:26
14.   Jon Weisman
11 - Baseball talk is never off topic.

2 - Isn't Northwestern the doppelganger of Stanford?

2005-12-03 09:32:41
15.   Bob Timmermann
Northwestern is the statistical doppelganger of Stanford is what I meant sorry.

Northwestern: Most annoying fans in America! Running into them in around town before they played in the Rose Bowl made me pulling for the Cardinal and Gold that year.

You would think people who pulled for a historically bad team would have a sense of humor or some perspective. But they were all jerks.

Wait, I'm making a sweeping generalization there.

They were most all entirely jerks.

2005-12-03 09:33:43
16.   Marty
Fight On!

SC should crush them, but they should have crushed Notre Dame too. My un-killable paranoia fears that UCLA will play it very close. I will not be anywhere close to the coliseum today because I'm a jinx. The only two SC games I've seen in person were losses. To UCLA in 1965 (I will always hate Kurt Altenberg) and to Notre Dame in 1966 (51-0!)

2005-12-03 09:52:06
17.   Bob Timmermann
Kurt Altenberg passed away recently so USC should be OK.

The NY Times is even giving big coverage to the game however the paper calls the schools U.S.C. and U.C.L.A.

I don't think anybody anywhere puts periods in the names of the schools.

2005-12-03 09:55:08
18.   Marty
Could be worse. Notre Dame coaches seem to be contactually obligated to refer to SC as "Southern Cal"
2005-12-03 09:57:35
19.   LAT
Ugh. Daughter has AYSO playoff game today at 2:00 and I am the coach. If I get ahold of the scheduling person. . .

Just say no to Soriano. He's not that good and will be blocking someone next year. I am starting to feel like Ned is trying to make moves just for the sake of making moves. On the other hand, he hasn't made a single move yet, so disregard that statement.

As for Nomar and Wells to Pods, that would be disappointing.

2005-12-03 09:58:50
20.   Rainman
No offense to Pac-10 or Oregon fans, but there's absolutely no way that the Ducks are more deserving of a BCS bid than Ohio State. The Bucks ran the table in the Big 10, and nearly (and probably should have) beat Texas. Like it or not, the Pac-10 is one incredibly dominant team, followed by a couple of good teams, followed by a lot of so-so teams. Leagues like the SEC and Big 10 are strong top-to-bottom, and going unbeaten through one of those conferences should always take precedence over being the Pac-10's runner up.
2005-12-03 10:01:29
21.   LAT
I suspect that the New York Times is the only paper that will refer to the Heisman candidate as "Mr. Bush" or the should-be candidate as "Mr. Olsen."
2005-12-03 10:03:01
22.   Rainman
Allow me to correct myself... in 20, I was basing my comment on thinking Ohio State was 10-1, same as Oregon... Not sure what I was thinking - please ignore my rationale!

Go Ducks!

2005-12-03 10:05:17
23.   LAT
This Tulsa-UCF game is wide open. Probably like the USC-UCLA game will be. No defense and 34 points barely into the second Q.
2005-12-03 10:09:50
24.   Bob Timmermann
Regardless I don't think Oregon is as good as Ohio State, especially since its starting QB went out injured.

I'm a huge Pac-10 fan, but I just don't see what big wins the Ducks have. They beat Fresno State by 3 at home. They beat Cal by 3. Those two schools have shown each other to be merely above average, but nothing special.

If Oregon were 10-1 and had beaten UCLA during the season, then I would be more impressed with them.

The NY Times Sports Section does not use the "Mr." and "Ms." convention for last names. They just use "Olson", "Leinart" and "Bush".

2005-12-03 10:16:02
25.   LAT
Don't they use Mr. and Ms. in the other sections of the paper? Why would they not give the same respect to athletes as politicians or actors? So if the Yankees win the WS, does the story on the front page refer to "Mr. Jeter" and the story on the sports page refer to "Jeter." I know none of this matters, just seem like and irrational inconsistency.
2005-12-03 10:21:02
26.   Bob Timmermann
Historically, the NY Times Sports Section has never used "Mr." and "Ms."

All the other sections do I believe. The only exceptions are with minors who are usually referred to by their first names only unless they are very famous.

2005-12-03 10:24:54
27.   LAT
Thanks Bob. I could make a "Learn-A-New-Fact-A-Day" calendar from what I learn here everyday.
2005-12-03 10:29:33
28.   sanchez101
i can see an argument where ohio state is better or more deserving of a BCS bowl than Oregon; it Notre Dame thats undeserving
2005-12-03 10:33:53
29.   Bob Timmermann
I'm trying my best to figure out the rhyme or reason for the NY Times use of periods in initials.

We have U.S.C., U.C.L.A., S.E.C. (the government agency), but also CBS, TIAA, and FEMA.

2005-12-03 10:39:14
30.   Bob Timmermann
Some knowledgeable Yankee fans don't want Juan Pierre on their either.

2005-12-03 10:46:12
31.   Linkmeister
When the last trumpets sound, the NYT will print "Mr. Gabriel came out on the parapet and blew several long notes on a horn. Details to follow."

It did seem funny that while Bush was demonizing Saddam Hussein all to heck and back the NYT referred to the man as Mr. Hussein.

2005-12-03 11:16:14
32.   deburns
29 and 31. The Careful Writer, by Theodore Bernstein, former Associate Managing Editor of the NYT, doesn't speak to the issue. So we are left with our analysis.
2005-12-03 11:21:42
33.   Vishal
[24] but ohio state isn't quite that good either. by all rights they should have lost to michigan, who are themselves overrated. and sure, the big 10 is a stronger conference than the pac-10, but things fluctuate from time to time and reputations still stick for no good reason. the big-12 for example is ridiculously overrated, especially this year. it's pretty much just texas, texas tech, and a bunch of nobodies.

anyway, the argument isn't really between oregon and ohio state, it's between oregon and notre dame. notre dame who had a rough time against stanford. and especially since the pac-10 always gets the short end of the stick, the bid should go to oregon.

2005-12-03 11:37:06
34.   das411
Ahem, there is also another Big Ten team that beat Ohio State this year...the first of many INSANE Saturday nights this fall here in good ol' Happy Valley!
2005-12-03 11:39:51
35.   Bob Timmermann
I have said too much about Notre Dame and risk devolving into a situation that could risk excommunication for me.

And I'll have to face the unenviable task of hoping UCLA can win in South Bend next season and read Mr. Naccarato's taunts.

2005-12-03 11:43:40
36.   bigcpa
Soriano checks in at 10 Batting Runs Above Avg and 24 Fielding Runs Below Avg. Throw in a ghastly road split .224/.265/.374.
2005-12-03 11:45:13
37.   trainwreck
It is easier for me to root for USC than the Angels. I only rooted for the Angels because I did not want the Giants to win the championship, but now I do not even know what I would do... just hope for constant earthquakes and the world series is cancelled.
2005-12-03 11:48:41
38.   trainwreck
Please not let the Texas-Colorado game be a sign of things to come.
2005-12-03 11:50:56
39.   Bob Timmermann
Since they don't serve beer at the Coliseum, I would assume that UCLA fans won't get as wasted as the Colorado fans will be.

What bowl wants that team and its fans?

There is a book out by a man who claims that all the problems with the Colorado football program are all just part of a liberal media conspiracy however.

2005-12-03 11:54:11
40.   J Rebel
UCLA +21, Over 74. My fingers are crossed.
2005-12-03 11:54:12
41.   trainwreck
Of course if that liberal media existed it would target Colorado University instead of you know trying to be victorious at something.
2005-12-03 11:56:55
42.   Slipstream
Why do I have flashbacks to the infamous '98 UCLA-Miami game, when Edgerrin James plowed through the UCLA defense like so many bowling pins for 299 yards? Still imprinted on my brain is the vivid image of defensive coordinator Nick Aliotti wildly swinging his arms on the sidelines in a desperate but doomed attempt to demonstrate to his players how to tackle.
2005-12-03 12:00:33
43.   trainwreck
Well atleast we are not going to ruin our national championship hopes with this loss.
2005-12-03 12:00:34
44.   Bob Timmermann
Reggie Bush doesn't run through people like James. He just runs around or by them.

Infamous is too nice of a word for the 1998 UCLA-Miami game.


2005-12-03 12:23:10
45.   zappala
35 Oregon definitely deserves the BCS bid over Notre Dame. This has nothing to do with the fact that I used to teach at Oregon, nor does it have anything to do with me being an ex-Catholic. Bob, I spoke just as badly about Notre Dame while a Catholic, but that isn't what would get me excommunicated if they ever bothered to hold a formal proceeding.

ND will continue to get a bid as long as it is "good enough" because it continues to have a stellar national reputation and following. "Better" teams will always get the short end of the stick. The only way to change this is to have a playoff system with strict seeding based on rankings of the top 4 or 8 teams.

2005-12-03 12:34:43
46.   A Slo
With the current system, the bowls select the teams they want out of those who are eligible. Every time ND is eligible, they will be chosen. Regardless of how any of us feel about the Golden Dome, ND will draw a bigger crowd and a larger television audience than the Oregon Ducks. So you can't blame Notre Dame, can't even blame the bowls who are attempting to make as much money as possible. Just gotta blame the system, aka "the man".
2005-12-03 12:55:28
47.   TheDictator
33 - "but ohio state isn't quite that good either"

I will have to disagree with that. It amazes me that I grew up in Ohio and became a Dodgers and Lakers fan. However, my football loyalities remain Ohio. Besides with Palmer at the helm, how can the Bengals go wrong? Curses on the Browns!

Ohio State should have beaten Texas. My Texas fan friend and I watched that game. Ohio State blew it. Texas didn't beat Ohio State, Ohio State gave that game to Texas. The Buckeyes gave Texas an early Christmas present.

I will say that Penn State beat Ohio State though.

But USC still is the best team in the land. But I have a better opinion of Notre Dame that most are giving. Their offense is sharp. They lack big time players. But they almost beat USC, that counts for something.

2005-12-03 12:59:07
48.   TheDictator
I think a lot of USC fans correctly see Notre Dame as a massive threat. ND has the history, the prestige, the media coverage, and now that Charlie Weiss is leading them to victories, they will have the players soon.

I think ND will have a National Championship within the next five years.

2005-12-03 13:00:39
49.   Linkmeister
I have to put in a plug for Navy against Army today, since my dad was a Navy officer for 31 years and I was a Navy sailor for 2+ myself.
2005-12-03 13:00:41
50.   fanerman
11 - Why would we want Soriano? Hasn't Smith or Ng shown Colletti his home/road splits or horrible defensive ratings?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-12-03 13:06:23
51.   Bob Timmermann

I will give you very long odds against Notre Dame winning a championship in the next five years.

Their schedule is always going to be too difficult.

Especially playing USC every year. And usually one or two of the best Big 10 teams.

I think what USC has accomplished the past three years is stunning. They are indeed very good, but they are also somewhat like the Yankees during the last WS run. Anything that could have gone wrong to them didn't. Eventually one game it won't. (That won't be today I fear.) The margin for error is very small in college football.

2005-12-03 13:13:20
52.   Vishal
[47] ohio state is good, and they have flashes of brilliance, but every time i watch them they seem to be incredibly inconsistent.

[50] i would hope so. and i would hope that colletti's response is not:

"sure, but we need to sign somebody. we need a big name that'll grab some headlines and show the fans we're doing something."

2005-12-03 13:20:07
53.   zappala
The great thing about a playoff system is that you don't have to have an incredibly dominant team like USC to win. You just have to be a really good team and play a few games the right way. To me, this would be much more exciting.

How great would it be to have USC, Texas, Penn State, Ohio State, LSU, Miami, Notre Dame, and Oregon in a playoff?

2005-12-03 13:41:19
54.   dzzrtRatt
When did they stop serving beer at the Coliseum? I was there last year (to see the Cal game) and I recall drinking a beer or two.
2005-12-03 13:42:51
55.   Bob Timmermann
They stopped serving beer this year. There is a designated area outside the stadium where you can buy it.

At UCLA games at the Rose Bowl, only the private parties can have alcohol outside the stadium.

They do serve beer at the Grandaddy of Them All (presented by Citi!)

2005-12-03 13:55:16
56.   trainwreck
Only gave up a field goal that is a positive. Time for the offense to come out firing.
2005-12-03 13:58:06
57.   dzzrtRatt
For those, like me, who are working away from a TV, here's a good place to follow the game:

2005-12-03 14:12:50
58.   Bob Timmermann
After the initial field goal, I decided it was time to work on balancing my check book on Quicken.

I'll wait for 2006 to get my hopes up.

2005-12-03 14:14:25
59.   trainwreck
Bush over 100 yards and the first quarter is not over yet...
2005-12-03 14:19:37
60.   trainwreck
Go for field goals Dorrel, it's not like our defense can stop their offense no matter where they start at.
2005-12-03 14:25:56
61.   Bob Timmermann
Bush will be at 200 by the end of the half now.

406 is the single game record by LaDanian Tomlinson.

I think the number will come up in discussion today.

2005-12-03 14:28:09
62.   trainwreck
He is basically one more carry away from 200 now.
2005-12-03 14:29:15
63.   Bob Timmermann
It's a good thing UCLA has good special teams to keep USC in bad field position.
2005-12-03 14:29:25
64.   trainwreck
That should have been Bush's run.
2005-12-03 14:30:28
65.   trainwreck
That's why I say go for field goals it could atleast 6-17 right now lol.
2005-12-03 14:30:29
66.   Bob Timmermann
This game is much more enjoyable in the "acceptance" stage. I can start drawing comparisons between some of the UCLA defenders and Jason Phillips.
2005-12-03 14:31:11
67.   trainwreck
I should have said at most haha.
2005-12-03 14:32:12
68.   Marty
USC fans everywhere better appreciate what they are seeing. Reggie Bush is a talent that doesn't come around that often. There's finally an argument that OJ isn't the best USC back ever.
2005-12-03 14:32:49
69.   trainwreck
Too bad no one will care when UCLA mops the floor with USC hoops.
2005-12-03 14:33:30
70.   Bob Timmermann
The LAPD could go arrrest Bush for homicide now and USC is still going to win this game.
2005-12-03 14:34:45
71.   Bob Timmermann

Tim Floyd will be angry.

2005-12-03 14:44:24
72.   Andrew Shimmin
If the U.C.L.A. defense is Phillips, then Carroll is Tracy. Why does he let Leinart throw at all when none of the bruins can tackle? It'd be 28-0, but for the throwing.
2005-12-03 14:50:43
73.   trainwreck
Because he wants to embarass UCLA like when he tried that reverse to throw to Leinart, like that is really necessary.
2005-12-03 14:51:18
74.   Bob Timmermann
Someone kidnapped Leinart and replaced him Joe Ayoob.

It's still not helping.

Reggie Bush turning into Red Grange hasn't helped.

2005-12-03 14:51:43
75.   Andrew Shimmin
Extending the metaphor, the refs are Duke Cunningham. . .
2005-12-03 14:52:25
76.   Bob Timmermann
Texas and USC will have one common opponent in the Rose Bowl:


2005-12-03 14:52:55
77.   Uncle Miltie
A couple comparisons:
Pete Carroll=Joe Torre
Matt Leinart=Derek Jeter
Not overrated:
Reggie Bush=A-rod

These officials stink

2005-12-03 14:56:18
78.   Bob Timmermann
When it comes to spotting the football, we all have to buy in to the fact that it is an extraordinarily inexact procedure that is presented in a way that everyone thinks is very precise.

It's a series of educated guesses.

2005-12-03 14:56:18
79.   trainwreck
Yeah mentioning De La Salle my high school rivals who beat us so bad it makes this game look ultra competitive.
2005-12-03 14:56:32
80.   Andrew Shimmin
Isn't Reggie Bush a little fragile? That's the kind of moral defect that could hurt his future career prospects.
2005-12-03 14:57:50
81.   Michael Green
If Bush is fragile enough, the Dodgers will sign him to back up J.D. Drew.
2005-12-03 14:59:52
82.   trainwreck
Look all the celebrities are bandwagon, fairweather fans as well.
2005-12-03 15:00:18
83.   Bob Timmermann
It's hard for Bush to get injured because he doesn't get tackled very often.

I really wonder what's up with Leinart. He isn't going to get it done against Texas playing like this.

Maybe he's going to wake up later.

2005-12-03 15:01:40
84.   Andrew Shimmin
Dan Fouts should be set on fire.
2005-12-03 15:02:49
85.   Bob Timmermann
We can tell Steve that Dan Fouts is really Juan Pierre.
2005-12-03 15:03:53
86.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA's best defensive play was when Leinart tripped going back to pass.
2005-12-03 15:04:59
87.   Bob Timmermann
However because this game is going to get out of hand, I don't think Bush will be in the game long enough to approach Tomlinson's record.

Carroll will likely call off the dogs sometime during the third quarter.

2005-12-03 15:05:14
88.   trainwreck
I can not believe I rushed home without getting lunch just to see this game.
2005-12-03 15:05:36
89.   Uncle Miltie
Any Furcal updates? I can't see him turning down $39 million over 3 years and the LA night life.
2005-12-03 15:06:07
90.   Marty
Helix High has produced Reggie Bush and Bill Walton. Not bad...
2005-12-03 15:06:38
91.   Uncle Miltie
88- are you a UCLA fan? If so, you should go out to lunch now.
2005-12-03 15:08:17
92.   trainwreck
Yeah I am. I will just go during half time and not care about rushing back to see the second half.
2005-12-03 15:09:21
93.   trainwreck
Brilliant now you give the ball to the best player on the team.
2005-12-03 15:10:24
94.   trainwreck
Really does USC need to mess with the clock and spotting the ball during this game?
2005-12-03 15:11:39
95.   dzzrtRatt
87 Don't the BCS rules provide a disincentive for "calling off the dogs"? Especially with Texas huge point total today. Unless it doesn't matter to Carroll to go into the Rose Bowl as the #1 team.
2005-12-03 15:22:30
96.   Slipstream
Any time Reggie Bush touches the football and doesn't score a touchdown is a moral victory for UCLA.

Not that it really made any difference, but I don't understand the point of punting (especially into the endzone) when UCLA has the ball on the SC 35-yard line. If you're going to go down anyway, you'd like to go down swinging.

2005-12-03 15:28:16
97.   Steve
Bobby Abreu can really be had for the equivalent of Chad Qualls and Brandon Backe? Maybe the Phillies will force Houston's hand and make them throw in Brad Ausmus. If everything goes according to MLB precedent, Houston will then ask for David Bell.
2005-12-03 15:28:28
98.   Marty
I was surprised they punted too.
95 I don't think SC could drop to #2 no matter what happens at the end of this game. They are playing the #11 team. Texas played a Colorado team that had no business in a championship game.
2005-12-03 15:28:58
99.   Rob M
By what logic is USC passing the ball EVER? Their running game is so good that letting Leinart throw so much is a liability. I think they would benefit if he were hurt. Booty would be efficient, and the offensive coordinators wouldn't throw so much. I think there were only 2 or 3 carries during the whole first half where SC got less than 4 yards on a carry. White could carry the ball 30 times for 200 yards against UCLA, no problem.

Carroll is a brilliant recruiter and a mediocre coach.

2005-12-03 15:29:22
100.   Bob Timmermann

None of the computer polls are allowed to include margin of victory as a component anymore.

All USC has to do is win. They could by 1 point in 6 overtimes and they would be playing in the Rose Bowl.

So, UCLA vs. Northwestern in the Sun Bowl? What do you folks think?

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-12-03 15:46:46
101.   The Boar
Re: Uncle Miltie in 89

How about the fact that the Dodgers don't have a manager? That they are in major turmoil? That Colletti is chasing him to ease the McCourts? How about the fact that Furcal has best friends in Aramis Ramirez and Neifi Perez in Chicago, and Andruw Jones in Atlanta?

I can see him turning down 3 years, $39 million and the LA nightlife, esp. since he's stopped drinking.

2005-12-03 15:47:01
102.   Steve

I went to Palms Middle School. I didn't meet a USC fan until after I graduated from college.

2005-12-03 16:03:33
103.   Bob Timmermann
ABC has shown two football games today.

They have a combined score for the teams ahead of 108-9.

2005-12-03 16:06:19
104.   Bob Timmermann
2005-12-03 16:11:48
105.   underdog
Yeah, I guess it isn't just me who felt like USC was really classless in going for it on 4th and 10 - I'm sure it's more about getting even with Texas than UCLA, who is like a bystander at this point. But still, sheez, this is really terrible to watch.
2005-12-03 16:13:43
106.   trainwreck
No Pete Carroll is just a jerk. Hate how much he celebrates a touchdown when his team is up by 30 points already.
2005-12-03 16:14:28
107.   dzzrtRatt
I guess the people who took the points can stop feeling smug.
2005-12-03 16:21:19
108.   trainwreck
I wish we could get some baseball news right about now.
2005-12-03 16:24:15
109.   Bob Timmermann

The football gods are not looking kindly about Mack Brown and Pete Carroll today.

When hubris strikes, it strikes hard.

I used to like Pete Carroll, but today he is really pissing me off.

I'm thinking of updating the list:

Russ Ortiz
Notre Dame University
Pete Car...

2005-12-03 16:27:25
110.   trainwreck
Haha wow you really hate Russ Ortiz
2005-12-03 16:32:02
111.   trainwreck
The more and more commercials I see for ABC's comedies and I understand why so many nations hate our culture.
2005-12-03 16:33:56
112.   Bob Timmermann
So, let's see.

USC is up by 46 points in the fourth quarter.
They have already won the conference title.
The defense is hardly giving up any yardage.

So, Carroll is keeping Leinart, Bush, and White still in the game and calling pass plays.

Verily I say unto to thee, there will be a day of reckoning for USC.

Although I keep thinking of the Simpsons episode with Homer yelling at the sky, "No comeuppance! No comeuppance!"

2005-12-03 16:36:30
113.   D4P
Is it just me or have other folks experienced slow and jerky scrolling and repagination on Dodgerthoughts lately? I'm thinking it stems from the "Best of Dodger Thoughts" jpeg on the right side of the screen.
2005-12-03 16:39:46
114.   Bob Timmermann
Days like today make me glad I won't be getting the LA Times tomorrow.
2005-12-03 16:45:14
115.   trainwreck
Hahaha on a Bruins website I got a laugh as I read a UCLA fan trying to make the case for exterminating the football program.
2005-12-03 16:46:06
116.   Uncle Miltie
I can see him turning down 3 years, $39 million and the LA nightlife, esp. since he's stopped drinking.
Believe me, Furcal has not stopped drinking and he always hits the strip clubs. I'm not sure where you got your information from.
2005-12-03 16:46:25
117.   trainwreck
Stop calling timeouts you asssssss!
2005-12-03 16:48:40
118.   Bob Timmermann
Some of us here will need to ask Eric Enders what is entailed in rooting for Texas.
2005-12-03 16:55:41
119.   Bob Timmermann
The UCLA fans can drive out to West Torrance High tonight and root against Pete Carroll's soon in a Division III semifinal game.

His son, Nate, plays for Peninsula High and they are taking on Dominguez.

2005-12-03 17:04:36
120.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA should have gone for 2 so they could have caught up with 6 TDs and a field goal!
2005-12-03 17:09:24
121.   regfairfield
119 Hey, my alma matter.

My greatest football memory there was entering the last game of the season 0-10 against Culver City who was also 0-10. At least one team would get a win this year.

They tied.

2005-12-03 17:10:12
122.   Uncle Miltie
I NEVER root for Texas teams...but I now I hope Texas kills USC.

Quick Pete Carroll story.
Pete came to my high school a couple years ago to a recruit player x. Player x is an unbelievable athlete, he was a football and track star (I was on the track team with him- we were both sprinters). I was surprised when he graduated from high school. In his senior year, he had a GPA of around 1.0, so the school put him in a special program where "tutors" helped him graduate. He must have had someone take his SATs for him because there's no way he would be able to score 800. He must be taking PE classes in college because he wasn't even high school material. Nice program that Pete Carroll runs.

2005-12-03 17:10:45
123.   The Boar
Re: 116, Uncle Miltie

I can't find right now where I read that, but apparently after his stint in jail, he told a friend that he had stopped drinking. Take it for what you will. But can you give me a reason why I should "believe you, Furcal has not stopped drinking?"

2005-12-03 17:14:57
124.   Uncle Miltie
123- a friend of mine saw him in a bar with 2 women in LA after a Dodgers game 2 years ago.
2005-12-03 17:15:58
125.   natepurcell
i hope furcal signs soon.
2005-12-03 17:17:56
126.   natepurcell
i dont really care if furcal drinks and loves strip clubs, he just has to be smart about it.
2005-12-03 17:20:17
127.   Bob Timmermann
At least in L.A., Furcal can just take our efficient public transit system to get him from place to place.

You would think these athletes who make so much money would just hire a driver.

2005-12-03 17:21:59
128.   Uncle Miltie
126- neither do I.

I just think that he might prefer LA because of the weather, nightlife, and better offer.

2005-12-03 17:22:17
129.   dzzrtRatt
$40 million should cover a lot of lap dances.
2005-12-03 17:24:25
130.   Uncle Miltie
129- he could buy his own strip club/strippers

I think he's going to LA, unless the Cubs make a better last minute offer.

2005-12-03 17:26:06
131.   natepurcell
texas has offer morris a 2 yr deal.

we should probably match it. i think morris would rather pitch in DS rather than arlington.

2005-12-03 17:27:46
132.   Marty
I missed almost all the second half for christmas shopping. Sounds like they were piling on the points. Sorry about that Bob. You are right, it will come back to haunt them. I said earlier that I was at a USC-Notre Dame game that the irish won 51-0. McKay never forgave them for that, and that's why the 55-24 game later in the 70's was so sweet.
2005-12-03 17:27:52
133.   D4P
It's great to think that a portion of your ticket price goes to help support the players' various vices (e.g. strippers, drunk driving, etc.). That makes you feel good about shelling out the dough.
2005-12-03 17:29:38
134.   dzzrtRatt
Does your boss ask you how you spend your salary?
2005-12-03 17:34:44
135.   Uncle Miltie
How many players don't go to strip clubs, drink excessively, etc? Probably J.D. Drew
2005-12-03 17:42:27
136.   fanerman
135 - But I bet a lot of players that go to strip clubs and drink excessively would be categorized by some as having more "heart" and "character" than Drew.
2005-12-03 17:43:06
137.   Bob Timmermann
In the second half today, Texas attempted 2 passes against Colordao.

In the second half today, USC attempted 24 passes against UCLA.

2005-12-03 17:45:36
138.   Vishal
[133] what about the fact that a big chunk of it goes to the man who is running your beloved baseball team into the ground?
2005-12-03 17:47:07
139.   Vishal
[137] well, seeing as how UCLA is horrible against the rush and pretty good against the pass, you can make the argument that they were doing UCLA a favor by playing to their strength.

yeah i know, it's a stretch. :)

2005-12-03 17:48:23
140.   Bob Timmermann
So all the money I spend on tickets goes to pay for another ivory-handled back scratcher for Frank McCourt?

One thing that's weird is that in October I got two calls from the Dodgers ticket office asking me if I wanted to renew my mini season ticket plan. I wasn't home either time.

But they've never called back.

Do they not care?

2005-12-03 17:53:10
141.   Bob Timmermann
Teams that have scored more than 66 points against UCLA in a football game:

1. Whittier College, 103, in 1920
2. Stanford, 82, in 1925
3. USC, 76, in 1929

and my personal favorite

4. Manual Arts High, 74, in 1919

I hear that the Toilers were pretty tough back then.

1919 was the first year UCLA played football (or existed for that matter). They went 2-6 with wins over the Occidental Freshmen team and LACC.

The Grizzlies (as they were called then) lost also to Hollywood and Bakersfield Highs that year.

2005-12-03 17:56:12
142.   willhite
135 -

Can we assume that excessive drinking makes one's bones stronger and that JD should be encouraged to do so?

Sorry if I'm repeating something already noted earlier, but one of the Texas papers is saying that the Dodgers are very interested in Soriano. The Rangers are looking for major league ready pitching. What could we possibly give them? Perez, Lowe?

2005-12-03 17:56:31
143.   Marty
Back in 1919 wasn't UCLA located where LACC is now, on Vermont? If I'm correct, I wonder where LACC was then.
2005-12-03 17:57:41
144.   Marty
142 I can attest that excessive drinking makes your bones harder. Mostly from all the practice of walking into walls, doors, etc.
2005-12-03 17:57:50
145.   Uncle Miltie
While I think Furcal would be a nice pickup, I won't be too upset if he doesn't sign with the Dodgers. I was much more disappointed when Giles didn't sign with the Dodgers, and I was downright devastated when the Dodgers were about to sign Vladimir Guerrero, but Bud Selig threatened McCourt to nix the deal, or the vote to approve his ownership might not go through.

Why I want Furcal: He's an excellent defender, he gets on base at a decent clip, we'd only be committed to him for 3 years, Ned wouldn't have enough money to pursue guys like Jacque Jones, Joe Randa, and Juan Pierre, there's a better chance that the Dodgers will keep Bradley because of lack of money/good options, Ned won't feel compelled to pursue a "real" leadoff hitter like Pierre
Why I don't want Furcal:
The Dodgers probably wouldn't have enough money left to pursue a middle of the order hitter through trade, Perez and Aybar probably wouldn't get a chance to start, he isn't a great player and from what I've seen of him- he has become a more aggressive hitter and too often tries to hit HRs

So, we are probably better off with Furcal.

2005-12-03 18:04:08
146.   Bob Timmermann

LACC and UCLA were the same place until UCLA opened in Westwood in 1929. Technically in 1919, UCLA was "The University of California, Southern Branch" then.

LACC's teams are called the "Cubs" because of their connection to UCLA.

2005-12-03 18:25:29
147.   Rob M
You guys aren't actually whining that USC beat you too badly today, are you? How will this come back to haunt Carrol? When UCLA runs up the score against him one day? So what. I have a feeling that he was passing to get Leinart back in rhythm after that terrible 1st half so he could carry some good vibes into the Rose Bowl. It's not like Bush piled on for 350 yards (you know he could have.)
2005-12-03 18:33:24
148.   Bob Timmermann
I was the primary whiner.

I was referring to Carroll's play calling will come back to haunt him in a philosophical sense. Or even mythological sense. It's hubris.

You don't mess with hubris.

2005-12-03 18:42:16
149.   caseybarker
I drink and love strip clubs. I'll take 7 mil for 3 years... and I'll give a fourth year club option for free.
2005-12-03 18:42:35
150.   King of the Hobos
670 am out of Chicago is reporting Furcal will make his decision by noon tomorrow (no idea which noon). Also, the Braves have removed themslves from the race. The hosts of the show think he'll be a Dodger

I didn't hear it, just read it on numerous message boards. I guess we'll know tomorrow

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-12-03 18:50:15
151.   Uncle Miltie
149- can you hit? What's your OBP?
2005-12-03 18:52:21
152.   Bob Timmermann

Are you faster than Jason Phillips? Are you faster than Wilson Alvarez? Do your friends ever call you Hee Seop?

2005-12-03 18:54:00
153.   caseybarker
Miltie-I bet I could take a few pitches in the arm or the gut.
2005-12-03 18:59:01
154.   caseybarker
Bob-I bet I can eat more tamales than Alvarez, though.
2005-12-03 19:00:58
155.   Bob Timmermann
Venezuelans eat tamales?
2005-12-03 19:05:21
156.   natepurcell
if they are as big as wilson, they will eat anything.
2005-12-03 19:08:57
157.   caseybarker
Whatever the bullpen has to eat during the games. It sure looks like Alvarez and Gagne eat their share.
2005-12-03 19:12:19
158.   Rob M
148 Just a gentle taunt. You are right, the play calling was ridiculous - especially that atrocious reverse/pass Leinart. I actually think the play calling has been ill-considered all year. I've seem several games where White and Bush are tearing off 10 and 20 yard runs, then the drive stalls with 3 straight incomplete passes. I always thought you kept running until they stop you. I don't like the way USC ignores that convention. In the end, it speaks to a lack of philosophical rigor, and that's the thing that will sink them ultimately.
2005-12-03 19:27:12
159.   Vishal
leinert, bush, and/or white going to the NFL won't be the thing that will sink them ultimately?
2005-12-03 19:28:10
160.   Bob Timmermann
In the end USC had 51 rushes for 430 yards and 44 pass attempts with 23 completions for 249 yards. It worked out to be about 7.1 yards per play. Arizona actually did better against UCLA's defense. Tuitama was a lot more accurate than Leinart.

Texas had 57 runs for 268 yards and 19 passes with 16 completions for 218 yards. Colorado turned the ball over four times and blocked two kicks.

Of course, it turns out that Mack Brown was tempting the football gods because when Texas was up 50, they blitzed Colorado's QB Joel Klatt and literally knocked him out of the game.

The football gods will want appeasement from some one. Maybe it will rain on the Rose Bowl.

2005-12-03 19:28:49
161.   Bob Timmermann

Just like how they got worse when guys like Palmer, Fargas, and Palamalu left.

2005-12-03 19:29:36
162.   Slipstream
I stopped watching in the third quarter and was surprised to see that UCLA scored 19 points. SC must've played Shannen Doherty in the fourth quarter.
2005-12-03 19:30:52
163.   Bob Timmermann
Shannen Doherty had 3 catches for 25 yards.
2005-12-03 19:31:26
164.   King of the Hobos
157 Generally, the rookies in the pen serve the veterans. Does that mean Gagne, Dessens, and Alvarez were served by the numerous rookies? From their guts, they might as well have eaten the rookies...
2005-12-03 19:34:36
165.   Rob M
159 Sanchez will win a Heisman in a few years. Jarret, Smith, Davis, Turner, McFoy, Lewis, will be the best receiving corps in the country next year. The defense will be great. The O line and the running backs will be suspect. Booty threw and ugly interception today in the 4th quarter as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Sanchez wins that job next summer.

Texas gets everybody back next year. Everybody. They will be the prohibitive favorites.

2005-12-03 19:35:27
166.   Bob Timmermann

Maybe that explain the drop in Brazoban's effectiveness. People kept nibbling on him.

2005-12-03 19:36:15
167.   Bob Timmermann
Early line for the Rose Bowl:

USC -6 vs Texas

2005-12-03 19:37:24
168.   natepurcell
samchez went to my high school for his first two years then transferred to mission. if he stayed, he would have followed carson as the next great SM to USC to #1 in the nfl draft to nfl superstar QB
2005-12-03 19:38:52
169.   Bob Timmermann
USC scheduled a basketball game at home tonight. I believe their marketing strategy was "Can't find your car? Come to the Sports Arena and wait for everyone to clear out!"

I have watched too much football today. Off to the movies.

2005-12-03 19:41:15
170.   natepurcell
what are you going to see bob?
2005-12-03 19:42:12
171.   Bob Timmermann
Walk the Line, which is showing about 5 minutes from my house.
2005-12-03 19:46:02
172.   natepurcell
next friday= the most epic movie this year,chronicles of narnia!!

i use to read a lot of cs lewis :)

2005-12-03 19:48:19
173.   Rob M
168 - I went to Laguna Beach (the 'real oc') High School from 1983 to 1986. I don't think Santa Margarita was in business back then. At least we never played you. I did face Mission Viejo. Swimming and water polo were my sports. The swim meets at Mission Viejo were a joke. Their team was littered with Olympic gold medalists and world record holders.
2005-12-03 19:51:06
174.   King of the Hobos
Times is reporting that Furcal is now a Dodger

2005-12-03 19:51:56
175.   King of the Hobos
174 Boy did I mess up there, it just outlines the offer. Sorry about that...
2005-12-03 19:52:44
176.   natepurcell
that link just says we offered him a contract...
2005-12-03 19:53:07
177.   natepurcell
haha, wow!
2005-12-03 19:55:19
178.   King of the Hobos
175 I see what happened (I think). Henson did report that Furcal was a Dodger, then very quickly changed the story. It was originally titled "Furcal a Dodger: 3 Years, $40 Million."
2005-12-03 19:56:49
179.   natepurcell
hmmm.. maybe he is jumping the gun and knows something secretive... are you sure hobos? actually i trust you on this one.
2005-12-03 19:57:33
180.   natepurcell
hahah its there now!

we got furcal

2005-12-03 19:57:46
181.   natepurcell
wow i cant believe it. we got a top tier free agent.
2005-12-03 19:58:18
182.   Uncle Miltie
No, read the article:
Free agent Rafael Furcal has agreed in principle to a three-year contract with the Dodgers that would make him one of the highest paid shortstops ever, a source close to the negotiations said Saturday. The deal would guarantee Furcal, 28, nearly $40 million.
Good, hopefully Ned keeps Bradley.
2005-12-03 19:58:34
183.   gbg11
Just got back from the game...what a sad, sad sight. And I actually thought my Bruins had a chance )-: Just don't have the personnel on defense yet...and as much as I hate the guy, Reggie Bush is amazing.
2005-12-03 19:59:18
184.   Jon Weisman
Yeah, it looks done.

I wouldn't get wrapped up in the position-move speculation about what happens when Izturis returns. It's a long time between now and July. This actually might provide cover for Choi to get a long look at first base.

2005-12-03 19:59:29
185.   King of the Hobos
176 Seems the Times fooled me. I swore I posted a story confirming a Furcal deal, then when I checked it to read the whole thing, all of a sudden it was changed. Some guy on agrees with me (he's the one who posted it, and it was real when I first looked)

I could have been seeing things, I'm not sure. Sure does make me look stupid if there never was a mistake

2005-12-03 20:01:59
186.   Steve
We can live with three years.
2005-12-03 20:02:48
187.   D4P
I bet JD's excited about reuniting with Raffy.
2005-12-03 20:02:54
188.   natepurcell
steve is content.

when the contract is over, JtD would only be 24 yrs old.

2005-12-03 20:09:31
189.   natepurcell
so what does every one expect from furcal for next year?

this is an analysis of furcal from baseball analysts blog:

3. Rafael Furcal - 27 - SS - 2005: Atlanta Braves

.284 AVG/.348 OBP/.429 SLG | HR 12 | SB 46 | 62 BB/78 SO

High on our list because of his blend of age, position, speed and defense in addition to what he provides with the bat. After watching Juan Uribe change the course of Game 4 in the World Series, you can bet General Managers will be salivating with the option of signing the one shortstop with a stronger arm. Furcal also fits great atop a lineup, as his baserunning (82% SB success rate) and patience (averaged 60 walks from 2003-2005) are both assets. This, not his DUI, should be the focus of GMs during evaluations.

2005 was Furcal's second best season ever, despite ending June with a .652 OPS. However, in each of the final three months his OPS was over .800, and his OBP was over .370. There is talk that Furcal was playing injured in the early going, explaining his struggles. His final two months, which were nearly identical -- .286/.377/.439 in August, .320/.383/.437 in September -- indicate when he stands as a player now. Rafael is a better bet to succeed over a four-year contract than Edgar Renteria, who might have made GMs wary of those deals with his mediocre season.

Projection: 4 years, $40 million. Edgar Renteria went from a .728 OPS in 2004 to this exact contract during the winter. Furcal will draw the same deal, and people will again cite that he's a "winner." Both sides will win at this rate.

2005-12-03 20:10:57
190.   D4P
As a fan, somewhat counterintuitively, I find myself preferring 3 years, $40 million over 4 years, $40 million.
2005-12-03 20:11:03
191.   Uncle Miltie
Bad News:
The Dodgers plan to remain aggressive in the free agent market. They are expected to sign either Bill Mueller or Joe Randa to play third base
Ugh. Aybar could probably out-produce Randa. Mueller would be ok, but only for 1 year.
Good News:
and have made offers to several free agent starting pitchers.
Hopefully, one of those pitches is the bearded one, Matt Morris
Good & Bad News:
Obtaining a power-hitting outfielder is also a priority.
Good because we need more power, bad because it means that Bradley might be gone and Ned might consider Jacque Jones a "power hitting outfielder"
2005-12-03 20:13:30
192.   Telemachos
Glad to see the article says the Dodgers will still be aggressive in the FA market. I think Mueller would be an excellent short-term signing as well.
2005-12-03 20:13:36
193.   natepurcell

so why dont just go after nomar?

and yes miltie, i hope we snag the great beared one as well.

2005-12-03 20:13:44
194.   Steve
Randa. Terrible.

190 -- Absolutely. Anything can be survived for three years. Anything.

2005-12-03 20:13:45
195.   D4P
Do folks around here think (1)Depo would have pursued Furcal, and if so, (2) would he have given 3 years, $40 million?
2005-12-03 20:13:49
196.   natepurcell
2005-12-03 20:16:14
197.   Steve
195 -- I was just thinking that if Beltre had been offered 3 and 40, he might still be a Dodger. Of course, had he been offered 3 and 40, he might still be a Dodger. So there's the flip side of that coin.
2005-12-03 20:21:05
198.   TheDictator
165 "Texas gets everybody back next year. Everybody. They will be the prohibitive favorites."

9/9 2006 at Texas. The Ohio State University gets their revenge.

OK maybe not, with Schlegel, Hawk, and Carpenter gone it might be a different game. But with Quinn Pitcock, the pride of Piqua High School (my alma mater) coming back, you can bet OSU will have a good defense.

2005-12-03 20:21:18
199.   D4P
If he was still a Dodger, he would have hit 48 HRs last season. Why can't you see that?
2005-12-03 20:22:09
200.   natepurcell
re 99

which newspaper guy used that argument on here again?

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-12-03 20:24:22
201.   Jon Weisman
I have a new post above for the Furcal report.

197 - I don't think Beltre/Boras would have gone for three years. The $13.3 million per year isn't that much more than what he got from Seattle.

2005-12-03 20:30:16
202.   Steve
That's right. But make it, say, 3 and 50. The point was just that this is an interesting way to undertake getting what you want. If he has a few more of these bullets to now get the kind of players that will push us over, great. If he uses those bullets to get us Joe Randa, or move Izturis to second, then he might as well not have signed Furcal at all.
2005-12-03 20:32:34
203.   Steve
By the way, when you put it like that Jon, Furcal at 3 and 40 looks even better.
2005-12-03 20:35:19
204.   TheDictator
OK - I was wrong. I thought for sure Furcal would stick with the good ol' boys. I hope we can cover for him as well as Cox and others.

So do we lose our high 1st Round Draft pick over this. Not that it would matter much, we can't seem to sign our first rounders anyway.

2005-12-03 20:38:08
205.   Steve
195 -- I keep coming back to this question, because it's a good one, and have finally decided that even if he had, Plaschke would have just said he was in over his skis against another wily baseball agent.
2005-12-03 20:46:05
206.   TheDictator
Randa wouldn't be a bad pickup for a year. For a while he was the Reds only good player. Then, of course, Griffey made a comeback and Dunn finally started playing like Dunn. Then the idiot Reds decided that Edwin Encarnacion was ready to strike out, play bad defense, and generally stink up the place at 3B, so they traded Randa to SD.

I heard Randa stunk up the place in San Diego though.

2005-12-03 20:50:35
207.   King of the Hobos
204 We will not lose our pick. Rather, we will lose our 2nd rounder (1-15 are protected). However, we're looking at getting 3 extra picks for Weaver and Dessens, so the loss isnt huge. It's not like we just signed Tim Worrell to give our 2nd pick away
2005-12-03 20:59:08
208.   Steve
206 -- If Randa, why not Aybar? If Randa, why not Perez?
2005-12-03 22:50:35
209.   Rich Lederer
Take it to the bank, Plaschke is either going to like the signing and not bring up Furcal's DUIs or he will pan it and make a huge issue out of them.
2005-12-04 06:01:59
210.   PadreJeremy
Ken Norton Jr must have forgotten he is an alumni of UCLA. The least he could do is not celebrate excessively as a part of the ass kicking of his alma mater.

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