If seanz returns, you gotta think that choi stays and we have a choi/seanz platoon at 1b.

Or not?

Everywhere are Saenz...

Saenz can play third... and mash.

how about dessens? offer arby to him? i want that 2nd round royals pick!

I'm very pleased that Weaver was offered arbitration.
Best case scenario:
Weaver signs with a team that had a good, but not great record. Who picks 15th/16th in the draft?

I really don't want Olmedo back. He's an American League player. It would be better for him and the Dodgers to part ways.

No arbitration for Darren Dreifort?

Ned is looking to acquire an OF...Soriano doesn't make any sense.

I found a birthday present for Hee Seop:
http://tinyurl.com/8qa45

Is tomorrow the last day for all players? I understood that tomorrow was the last day for free agents but for players who are arbitration eligible I thought it was Dec 20th that was the non-tender date for Milton.

Glad to see Saenz coming back but I'm surprised. This guy needs to make some money because he's never made any serious coin yet and his career is just about over.

"The club is not expected to offer arbitration to free agents Elmer Dessens"

What?! Why?! Someone, quick, show Colletti that KC is about to sign Dessens. If the Royals get away with this and the Dodgers don't get a draft pick, I will not be particularly happy (although there are far worse things)

I'm a little concerned that Saenz is going to go Wilson on us. But this is a good sign. Just stick with the platoon plan. Kid-tested. Mother-approved.

Soriano is GM Porn.

6 You are correct. Dec 20th is the big day for Bradley, Choi, and Phillips

The club is not expected to offer arbitration to free agents Elmer Dessens, Jose Valentin, Darren Dreifort and Paul Bako.

i dont understand that. why not elmer? he wants a 2 yr deal and will get one from the rockies or royals... i dont see why not? does ned not want the extra draft pick?

7,10
Is "Elmer accepting arbitration" the worst that could happen? If so, that wouldn't really be a bad thing, would it?

haha steve, that made me laugh.

andddd, this is the best part about gurnicks article...

In addition, there were reports the Dodgers had inquired about Texas second baseman Alfonso Soriano, although his salary and the Rangers' insistence on top prospects would seem to make that a longer shot. Soriano would move Jeff Kent to first base and leave Cesar Izturis in limbo when he returns from elbow surgery at midseason

6 - You're right. My apologies. I'll make the fix. Thanks!

I think the last thread was exactly the thing Jon was hoping to see less of going forward. That was a total hypothetical freakout.

leave Cesar Izturis in limbo

You're not supposed to be selling Soriano. Soriano's post-June 14th slugging percentage was WAY higher than Cesar Izturis's.

Completely random Milton Bradley topic:

I'm no psychologist, so anyone with any background please shout out an opinion, but Bradley's actions make me think he might have a borderline antisocial personality disorder. From all accounts, including Dusty Baker's, he is one of the most likable, affable players around. Yet he's got some buttons, that once pushed, make him cross a line he doesn't seem to be aware of.

(I'm only bringing this up because this topic came up during my Exposition Class in regards to Perry Smith, the murderer in Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood".)

And the Saenz said long bodied Korean people need not apply
So we packed our Korean player off to Oakland and we all asked why
Beane said you look like a fine upstanding hitter, I'll think you'll do
But then he forgot his bat and said imagine that, me walking for you

So, endeth my first and last attempt at parodying the Five Man Electrical Band.

hey, since the cardinals need an outfielder, bradley for marquis?

And in that spirit, I still have faith in the four headed monster to build our roster. And I still think we'll all be cursing Grady Little by May.

How about Bradley for Kochman? Don't the Angels need and outfielder?

I have the same reaction to Grady Little as I immediately had to Furcal. Immediate optimism likely followed by a wave of evidence to the contrary. I did like the story I read (on 6-4-2?) about him telling Ortiz "We didn't bring you here to do that." That's already put us ahead of the last guy.

The only question is which Soriano would we get? Frankly I don't want either one, but would he revert to the form of his Yankees days, or continue his decline as he has with the Rangers? I'm not so sure.

21 -- The Angels only need shortstops.

reunite the dancing izturis brothers!

21 Dreaming

Has it been truly documented that Soriano will not play in the outfield? If Colletti thinks 1st base is at the bottom of the list, does that mean he has already made up his mind to move Kent back to 2B or that he actually has some faith in Choi?

Cesar Izturis in limbo
The ill-received sequel to "Nudes in Limbo."
(Anyone remember the small scandal that erupted during Boston's 1987 spring training when Oil Can Boyd was busted for failing to return some videos he rented? "NiL" was one of them.)

23 Would you really not want a guy who's pretty much a sure thing for 30 homers and 30 steals a year? It's not like he's Tony Bautista either, even last year he hit .268, better yet .300 and .290 in his two awesome years for the Yanks.

I think Little is going to cause nightly aggravation on this site next season. But hopefully, there will be a case to be made for him.

The Catholic Church is removing limbo as an official teaching, so I don't know where Cesar Izturis is.

The whole concept of limbo is in limbo.

exactly how old is soriano? how much did he age in that age gate thing if any?

Cabrera and Dontrell are available! Ok its a NY newspaper i know but still:

While the cost-cutting Marlins still are refusing to lower their asking price of Robinson Cano for Juan Pierre, they have begun to tell teams that every player on their roster - including Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera - is available for the right price.

The Yankees threw out the names of Cano and Chien-Ming Wang in passing as possibilities for Willis, the Marlins' dynamic lefthander, but the Marlins told them it would take a lot more than that, according to a person familiar with the negotiations.

whoops here is the link for 32:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sbyanks064541230dec06,0,6381223.story?coll=ny-sports-print

30
Speaking of limbo, did anyone here ever see the movie by that name? The ending was among the more unique I've seen.

now that is a link i dont mind.

laroche, martin and broxton for cabrera.

and i dont know what i meant by link..

actually, i hope the marlins dont trade willis or cabrera. the fans of that team needs some hope to cling on.

Cabrera may be the one player in MLB for whom I'd hand over the farm system's jewels.

You can have Willis. We'll take Cabrera.

Billingsley, Guzman, Broxton, Navarro and Jackson for Cabrerra and Willis.

28....thirty homers is all well and good. but a .310 OBP coupled with horrible defense? I don't know about that. I think an aging Kent has much more value than Soriano, plus I dont like the idea of moving Kent to First, as his value diminishes.

I'm not saying a Soriano circa Yankees isn't valuable, I just don't feel the Dodgers need to trade for him, especially at his salary. They have other holes to fill.

okay, obvious the lack of sleep the past 2 days have gotten to me. i cannot write in coherant sentences anymore. i better try and finish this paper. no more dodgerthoughts!

sorry about the link being so long.

Id rather have Dontrelle in L.A! He would be the ace and his personality is great. He would quickly become the man in L.A. Eclipsing Kobe?

39 do you really not like Willis? Lefty, young, durable. What's not to like?

Kobe, before he would ever accept being eclipsed, would have Dontrell liquidated.

I wonder if the Marlins would outright sell us Willis. D-train for $20M? Plus Broxton; gotta find some way to unload that burnout.

i dont think steve meant he doesnt like willis.. just that he wants cabrera more.

darnit, stop posting nate

Larry Likes Little:

Chipper Jones: "Grady is just like Bobby Cox and Jimy Williams. They're three peas in a pod. Whenever you hear the term 'a player's manager,' this guy is the epitome of that."
- http://tinyurl.com/au7lh

I want Cabrera more too. But we could really use Willis as well.

You kiddin' me, Bob (#18), that was good.

44 -- He's fine. Choosing between the two, I would trade for Cabrera. I would always trade for the position player over the pitcher, just because of the risks involved in pitchers. Unless the position player was injury prone like Izturis.

Nate catches my jive. If I didn't like Willis, I'd make it a little clearer than that, don't you think? :)

I know Jon doesn't like speculation, but I think he is OK with "sourced" rumors. With that in mind, here goes (from ESPN Insider):

Does Soriano love L.A.?

Dec 6 - The Dodgers are close to acquiring second baseman Alfonso Soriano from the Rangers for right-handed pitching prospect Jonathan Broxton, reports ESPN's Peter Gammons.

Such a move could allow the Dodgers to move incumbent second baseman Jeff Kent to first base.

I bet we could trade any 6 or 7 prospects for Willis and Cabrera and we'd come out ahead.

50

Thanks Rich. Personally, I expect you to own a Five Man Electrical Band album

Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.

--Elton John

I wouldn't want Cabrera....he's gotta be in the top five of most overrated players..................

sike

Cabrera is defintely a great young hitter but he doesn't have Wilis' personality. Hell we have the prospects get them both. I think only the Angels could beat our prospects but they are after Manny.

53 that rumor has been bludgeoned to death in the last thread.

hey rich, if you read the comments in the last post, you would see that rumor was well.. discueed thoroughly.

If those two are available, we should be able to get them. We have the prospects. Only Tampa with Delmon and BJ could possible trump us.

Why exactly would either of those two be available? Marlins are purging payroll and last I checked, neither of them was paid very much.

18
Good stuff Bob. Now if that ditty is banging around in my brain at 2AM this morning I may not be so pleased.

Willis or Cabrera=Delusions of grandeur

We must be made to suffer. It's our lot in life.

I thought the Fearing Blue trade rumor of a 3 way the Texas/Chicago/LA made sense for all 3 teams. Just Soriano to LA doesn't make sense.

I have a really hard time believing Cabrera or Willis are truly available. Would anyone left on the roster be making more than $1 million? Sounds like a NY newspaper trying to sell some papers. What could the Marlins possibly want in exchange for Cabrera? Only something like Cabrera for David Wright would make much sense at all.

gammons again!

Dodger Bill?
Dec 6 - The Dodgers are expected to sign third baseman Bill Mueller once Wednesday's arbitration deadline passes, reports ESPN's Peter Gammons.

That Gammons rumor isn't as bad (and most here are probably in favor of it)

The Mets have supposedly re-opened Zito talks. As for eeping Milledge so they could deal him to us for Kent, Gammons reported on Sunday that the Mets will sign Grudzielanek after the arbitration deadline

The Orioles are supposedly close to signing Ramon Hernandez. Maybe the Padres will try harder for Loretta-Mirabelli

If that happens that will be a tight left side of the infield. Another switch hitter. To bad Milton is moving on because at some point this year we could have had 6 switch hitters if D Young was to make an appearance in out field.

I remember the 60's Dodgers had an infield of switchhitters - Parker, Frenchy, Wills, Gilliam.

69
Nothing like trading your all-star 2nd baseman for a backup catcher.

D Roberts for Phillips

The Marlins can have what they want (excluding Billingsley) for Cabrera.

The Chicago Tribune is reporting that Hendry offered Pinto, Nolasco, and Mitre for Pierre. None of them are elite pitching prospects, but how much more could Pierre get? The sooner this gets done, the less I have to worry about Colletti offering more

It seems a shame that we're seemingly leaving no room for Perez, Aybar or Young to play. They seem to all be ready to contribute. Maybe it makes sense to let them be part timers.

The Padres will only trade Loretta if they re-sign Hoffman. Preventing Linebrink from closing and trading their all star 2B for a backup catcher could be helpful to us

Perez/Saenz platoon at third. Maybe...

I think Perez and Aybar get to ride the pine.

75 They could all be nice parts for a trade. No way we sign Mueller and Saenz, and keep Aybar, Perez, Young, and Robles. I'm guessing 2 will be kept as utility, and Young stays in AAA

Remember when we were going to get Adam Dunn for Perez and ODP this summer...

I really hope the rumors of Gillick liking ODP are true. I hope Choi gets a shot to play if not trade him and give him a chance to show off his skill.

I hope D Young will be playing everyday in AAA as an outfielder. You don't want him to start out his career on the pine in April. He is a notorious slow starter. If he was to do that at the Major League level he may never get a 2nd chance. Only veterans are allowed to stink it up in April. Go figure.

The Astros may not offer Clemens arbitration. Of course, that is meaningless for the Dodgers I would think

If you are a contending team offer Clemens whatever he wants, he turns it down big deal. Might as well at least try to sign the best pitcher in the game if you can.

Ken Rosenthal is now reporting the Dodgers have acquired Alfonso Soriano for two double A prospects, yet to be named, and cash.

ESPN News Radio

Maybe Clemens' injury is a factor in their decision.

I liked this quote from Little (via MLB.com): "There is no way I can put into words how happy I am to get this opportunity with this franchise," Little added. "You can bet your butt I'll make the most of it."

I'll take "bet your butt" anytime over the warped passive-aggressive straw man building question-head who used to manage the Dodgers.

I have a feeling Tiffany and JtD are heading to Texas.

88 -- That's a big 10-4.

Meanwhile, we have D4P all over again. Only Soriano is even worse than D.

89-
That is way too much for Soriano. Hopefully Logan White would prevent that.

Two double A's. That's dangerous territory.

An infield of Kent, Soriano, Furcal and Mueller? They'll put runs on the board. (Soriano's dEfEnsE will put runs on thE board for thE othEr tEam, but what thE hEy.)

Me too. Yikes. But Colletti has done this in S.F. for years. He doesn't value the farm. He has a huge amount of pressure to succeed sooner rather than later.

In Logan White we trust.

Wow, forget Colletti and Little, the biggest directional change is McCourt's apparent willingness to raise the payroll. My addition may be ballpark only, but it looks like the Dodgers 2006 payroll is already at $82M. Add in possibles Mueller (3.0?), Soriano (9.0?) and Weaver or Wells (9.0?), and the roster is over $100M. What rough irony for Depodesta. In 2005 he follows orders and drops payroll, then gets criticized and fired for fielding a low cost team. His replacement is handed a checkbook, plus he inherits a solid set of near-ripe minor leaguers to blend in next year. Timing is everything.

So now here it is, December already. And we've seen a team (the Toronto Made of Green Jays) spend $102 million on two pitchers this winter before the Dodgers could even figure out who was going to manage their team. Which is no way to run an offseason.

True enough. The Blue Jays offseason was no way to run an offseason.

I'm hoping Juarez and Luis Gonzalez. That's fair, right? I know I'm not going to feel good when I see what we gave up

I like the combo of Fucal and Soriano. I think they will mesh just fine.

Go Dodgers!

I miss Repko already.

What, Repko's retired?

No, we sent him and Aybar to Texas for Soriano.

101 - You jest.

what? i thought it was graboski and phillips.

Well, 2 things that are look fairly good: Broxton may not be considered a AA prospect (please), and we're giving the Rangers cash. Considering Soriano has no contract, maybe that cash is going to prevent top prospects. Abreu and Orenduff, and some cash, could be a fair deal I guess

Perhaps Soriano is part of a three-way trade; we are middlemen.

HOME: .315 / 1.011 AWAY: .224 / .639

And a .730 OPS against LHP.

I mean, this is some kind of horrible sick joke.

So is this only on ESPN Radio? And where does Rosenthal come in?

I can't find any confirmation for the Soriano deal online - bogus?

meanwhile, the giants are busy signing matt morris

106-
beautiful

There's a team on a western bay
And it gets fans over ten thousand a day
Lonely fans watch the team play
And get out of their homes

And there's a guy in this harbor town
And he works battin' balls around
They say "Bradley, hit another round"
He hits sublimely fine

The fans say "Bradley, you're a nice guy" (you're a nice guy)
"What a good player you'd be" (such a good player)
"Yeah, your legs could steal a base in MLB"

Bradley hates a guy named Kent
Who won an MVP when he was a Giant
A locker that bears the name
Of the man that Bradley hates

He came in winter 2004
Bringin' bats he had used before
But he made it clear we wouldn't stay
No teammates heard over headphones

The player said, "Bradley, you're a lingerer" (you're a lingerer)
"What a good player, you could be" (what a good player)
"But my teams, my teams, don't include Bradley."
(dooda-dit-dooda), (dit-dsooda-dit-dooda-dit)

At night when the bars close down
Bradley walks through a noisy town
And hates a man who's not around
He can still hear him say

He hears him say "Bradley, you're a lingerer" (you're a nice guy)
"What a good player you'd be" (such a good player
"But my teams, my teams, don't include Bradley"
(dooda-dit-dooda) (dit-dooda-dit-dooda-dit)

My sincerest apologies to fans of Looking Glass.

I saw the Giants were paying Morris 2 yrs. at $8M per? Not a bargain, unless he's not actually in decline and was just hurt or something last year.

Meanwhile, where is this Soriano trade reported? I'm calling BS.

I saw the Giants were paying Morris 2 yrs. at $8M per? Not a bargain, unless he's not actually in decline and was just hurt or something last year.

Meanwhile, where is this Soriano trade reported? I'm calling BS until i get a link.

We could have a leadoff by committee.

Turn on ESPN radio it just announced it again. It will come on at 11:30 also.

double post with caveat.

I'm thinking it could be BS as well. Soriano doesn't have a contract, why would we send cash to Texas? I could be missing something here

But who knows with ESPN. Did you see all the coverage the NL WEST got on ESPN Baseball tonight at noon today.

This might be a nasty ESPN rumor, just to stir the pot.

Meanwhile, did anyone see this new piece on CBS Sportsline by Scott Miller on Grady Miller?

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9081335

A nice little piece., definitely read it...

=cp=

Grady Little, I meant. Sheesh, never post when you're half asleep. Night!

I hope the Dodgers minor league stars are still with us when I awake in the morning.

Rosenthal has the Soriano for Broxton deal "not close to completion" in his Lobby Buzz notes. He also said that Soriano would be aquired to play LF.

It's a relief he'd play LF and not 2B. I'm still nervous about giving up prospects though. Soriano can still stop the deal by refusing LF...

How can Soriano refuse LF? I know he can grumble, but can he just refuse? Can he pick his place in the batting order too?

He could just not show up. Maybe if he complains, Colletti will realize that it's not worth it

soooo whats going on? i just got home...

That Scott Miller Sportsline column did not make me any happier about Grady. Though it did make me realize that I share few or no opinions with Scott Miller.

124 I didn't mean Colletti will realize it, but that he could realize it. I guess I'm tired. I really want Broxton to be a Dodger when I wake up

125 you'll see if you scroll through the posts - there have been reports of Soriano for Broxton, and another of Soriano for two AA propects plus cash. Supposedly these were reported on ESPN radio, but I haven't found any confirmation.

125 ESPN radio supposedly says Soriano for 2 AA prospects and cash. Rosenthal disagrees that it's not close to completion. I'm not sure why cash would be involved, as Soriano has no contract

Also, the Red Sox plan to offer Mueller arbitration

I read somewhere that Boras was saying the Dodgers are a "major" player for Damon. I guess he figures that we have plenty of experience giving seven year contracts to players on the wrong side of thirty.

I've conclude that all rumors are bogus. Wake me up in February when we have Zito and Abreu and all of our top 5 prospects. Goodnight.

this doesnt concern the dodgers, but interesting either way:

Will Carroll:

The other interesting rumor of the day involved the Red Sox and their recent acquisition, Josh Beckett. As the rumor circulated, the Red Sox had found something in Beckett's MRI that forced a recision. According to several sources, this was not only not true but not even possible. Trades follow certain rules and procedures and while there are mechanisms for returning damaged goods, they usually take place during the trade. One where outside physicians were consulted hardly seems one where something could sneak by and MRIs are as reliable as the boozy blonde wandering between Common Ground and Gossip, the aptly named bar in the Anatole.

It's not done till Steve Henson reports it. Upside of a Soriano for Broxton plus one deal? Maybe this scoop will be the one that makes the Times love McCourt.

now gurnick is reporting dodgers are interested in manny.

lol, wow. too many rumors. cant handle it!

Jacksonville Suns for Manny, Soriano, Abreu.

from gurnick:

Although the Dodgers came to the Winter Meetings prepared to deal some of their promising young talent, there doesn't seem to be a fit for what the Red Sox are looking for, which is why the Ramirez talks have evolved into complex three- and four-team scenarios.

In almost any deal, the Dodgers would like to move starting pitcher Odalis Perez and the $20.5 million he is owned over the next two years. Although Ramirez has asked to be traded, the Red Sox have said they prefer to keep him, but would explore opportunities for a fair-market deal

Clearly a "stick it to the Angels" type deal.

more like, "stick it to our future" type deal.

ESPN's Harold Reynolds has learned that the Dodgers are in "intense negotiations" with the Marlins regarding Miguel Cabrera
Gammons speculates that a deal would likely include Joel Guzman, Scott Elbert, and Chad Billingsley. The Marlins, also in search of a young catcher, may have some interest in Russell Martin. We highly doubt that Cabrera will be trade will be completed.

^^^ hahaha.

Is there any player we aren't getting, outside of Dante Bichette?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2250647

The Florida Marlins have tentatively agreed on a four-player deal that would send Juan Pierre to the Chicago Cubs, for three young pitchers -- Sergio Mitre and prospects Renyel Pinto and Ricky Nolasco, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reported early Wednesday.

apparently not juan pierre anymore. steve will be pleased.

ooops, tons of typos. LOL

Here's another one....

ESPN's John Kruk is reporting that an employee at a donut shop told him that there's a 10 % chance that Barry Bonds is still using the cream.
Since Kruk was in a donut shop, we think that the employee was talking about coffee.

so ... people are just making stuff up now, right?

Colletti on the Bill Mueller's endoring Grady Little: "And this was from a man who played for [Chicago Cub and former Giant manager] Dusty Baker, who is one of the greatest players' managers ever."

http://tinyurl.com/b3qsh

do we have any idea who grady little might bring on to coach, seems he might need a take charge pitching coach to manage the staff. Id really like to know because its so hard to get a decent reveiw of this guy, everyone seems so obsessed with his staying with Pedro in game 7 that it colors everything they have to say about him. Red Sox fans are pretty incoherent anyways.

145 - MLB.com MUST be making this one up, it makes too little sense otherwise:

Atlanta is offering Andy Marte + McCann or Saltamacchia

for

Edgar Renteria.

Tampa waited too long to deal Lugo, it seems, and misses a HUGE opportunity to fill at least one hole long-term. Atlanta has decided to throw Furcal's money at a lesser SS, while Boston somehow scores two top prospects for an overpaid and rapidly aging Renteria. Amazing.

Link: http://tinyurl.com/72mnv

So, at least when they do get Soriano, he won't be taking any time away from Werth. (Clubhouse cancer) Izzy and Choi would still be SOL.

"The Dodgers have talked to the Texas Rangers about acquiring Alfonso Soriano, whom they have considered playing at first base."

http://tinyurl.com/7fewh

Trading for Soriano and getting rid of Bradley would be a horrendous move.

Keep Bradley
Sign Mueller
Sign 1 of Wells, Morris or Rogers
Trade 3 top prospects for Miguel Cabrera.

Not sure this is feasable financially but it seems doable and would make us a contenders again after one off season.

The Pierre deal is for real, acc. to ESPN. Which is a good thing. As long as the Cubs don't trade him to LA for Bradley. Eek!

So far, so good. We can't blame Colletti for whiffing on Giles. The only guy I've seen sign elsewhere who I thought we should go after was Paul Byrd. He'd have helped. But I have no idea if he ended up getting more than he should have (or that we'd have been happy to pay). Otherwise, there's not a single MLB-level player who has moved that I would have coveted. A lot have moved that I'm happy Colletti didn't get. I'm still not thrilled about Furcal, unless the budget constraint really isn't as tight as we'd feared.

plaschke approves of little

I hope Lo Duca and Guillermo Mota like each other. This is their 3rd team together. Maybe they're like Felix and Oscar.

In light of Pierre being traded to a team that is not the Dodgers, maybe it would be best to take a collective deep breath, let some dust settle around Alfonso Soriano and any other potential trade targets (Miguel Cabrera, this is getting out of hand isn't it?), and repeat "Maybe Ned (and the gang of 4) isn't (aren't) a complete moron(s)." Even if something like a Soriano trade does happen, though I have my extreme doubts, I think it would be foolish to judge that decision before the chips all settle. That includes waiting to know what position Soriano plays. It would seem a rush to judgment to say it's a horrible decision to trade for Soriano because we have Kent if all along the plan is to put Soriano in the OF. Under this scenario, Soriano is basically taking over Bradley's OF role, and then what we get for MB is hopefully on par with what we give up for Soriano. I think the same really could be said of the Furcal signing. I can't really judge if it was a good move right now because if the end result is Furcal at short and Izturis at 2nd, I think it is a waste. But if if it Furcal at short, Kent at 2nd, and Choi at first, and with Izturis an expendable part, I like the shrewd move by Colletti.

Just wondering, not about the rumors, but about the logic some above have employed. Why would Soriano be OK if used in LF, and not OK if used at 2b?

His defense at LF MIGHT be better than average (he is fast, after all) whereas his 2b defense is execrable.

But he's not even a great hitter for a 2bman - for a corner OFer, he's awful. At this point, the only real question is whether he's better than a Werth/Ledee platoon. I doubt it. But of course, at his price, there must be better alternative than him OR Werth/Ledee.

Although he said first base was "the least of our concerns," asked specifically about Hee-Seop Choi as the full-time starter, Colletti said, "I wouldn't want to have to comment either way right now."

I really want to keep Bradley. Give him one more chance to prove he is durable mentally and physically. 2007 is the year anyway.

Plascke endorses Little and slams Boston fans as whiny and self-absorbed. If only he'd added illiterate it would have been even funnier. He also calls Theo Epstein a lucky kid. The only thing worse than an old guy who thinks he's still young, is an old guy who thinks his age is an accomplishment.

Grabowski gone: Former Dodgers outfielder Jason Grabowski, who in two seasons with the club batted .196 and struck out 79 times in 285 at-bats, has signed a one-year contract with the Orix Buffaloes of the Japanese Pacific League.

They can restart the Kirk Gibson clock on Dodgerblues.com

Retract 157. Plascke is only 47? I had him pegged as much older. Must be time to upgrade to HDTV. Or maybe the Around the Horn makeup crew just really hates him.

from stark:

The one part of this team's operation that's in great shape, the farm system, will come in handy as Colletti attempts to pull off all this magic. But there are limits to how much of it the GM is willing to plunder for the sake of winning now.

And those limits are known as James Loney. And Russell Martin. And Chad Billingsley. Who are the current poster boys for that system.

"If I wanted to fix things and have half a farm system, I could have done that yesterday," Colletti said. "But that's not the plan. The plan is to be better and still hold the course, to develop and win at the same time."

_________________

personally, i dont consider james loney a "poster boy" for our system but its nice to know colletti had a list of untouchables.

160
I was just about to post that, you beat me to it.

It sounds good to me.

haha that jayson stark article is pretty good.

apparently this morning for a couple hours, collettis cell phone was shut off.... it was the giants, who gave colletti the phone. they shut it off. conspiracy theories run abound!

apparently, the red sox want broxton if they are going to deal wells.

the bull is a wanted comodity this winter.

Man, can't we just sign free agents that are worth it.

Morris, 1 of washburn,millwood,weaver, mueller or garciapara.

Keep bradley.

And try to steal an outfielder from someone by offering houlton or jackson plus if we can izturis, plus antonio perez, plus a lower prospect like tiffany, and if they are interested repko.

but, washburn, millwood or weaver wont be worth it.

165
yea they are all boras clients.

165 I'm not even sure that Morris is going to be worth it.

I just can't believe these Soriano rumors. Logan White wouldn't let it happen. I'm not going to be upset until it's true because it's too ridiculous to believe.

As much as I would love to see the Dodgers retain Bradley, I think many miss the Kent issues. If the plan is to move Kent to first sometime during the season, and Kent said I believe at the end of the season he wouldn't be thrilled playing with him again, it strikes me that Bradley will not be a Dodger again. I wish something would change, but just don't see it.

Funny, Over at Bronx Banter, a commenter opined: "At least our Pierre worries are over." Looks like Yankee fans were worried about Juan the Outmaker as much as we were. Thank goodness for the Cubs. Every year, they protect other teams from dumb mistakes. Psst...Hendry! Soriano is available! And you had a terrible defensive 2bman (Walker) last year, so Fonzie's defense would be that big a downgrade...

I seem to remember Derek Jeter talking about Soriano's visual difficulties with fly balls as a second baseman with the Yankees. This would disqualify him as an outfielder. Is Honus Wagner available for third base? He's a real gamer.

It may be that I'm wearing Choi-colored glasses, but I am feeling more optimistic that Choi-boy will be getting a real shot here. He may be remembered as Depo's poster boy and as baggage from the previous regime, but fact that he's still around is encouraging. And he seems like a Grady Little type of player -- man, those Sox teams had some great OBP guys.

Grady is a bit of a local hero around here -- he was the Durham Bulls' manager for many years when they were the Brave's high A affiliate. In fact I think he was manager when they made the movie. Man those were the days! Some real talent passed through here.

168 As I went to sleep last night, I watched Jim Hill's sportscast on the 11 o'clock news. He mentioned the Soriano-to-the-Dodgers rumors, but went on to say the team had denied the story. I didn't get the exact words--as I recall, it wasn't a "no-never" but more like a "it hasn't happened."

I guess all you guys would've slept better if I'd gotten out of bed to post this, but I figured someone else would've heard it. Besides, my wife already thinks I've gone crazy, and I'd prefer not to comfirm it as this time.

...not to confirm it at this time.

Boy, you look at these photos of Colletti, and Little and Lasorda...you start thinking maybe it's baseball that should be called "show business for ugly people."

The more I think about the Soriano rumor, the less it makes sense. He has been a [terrible] 2B, but we've got Kent there. And unless I'm missing something, we don't have to trade Kent, so it wouldn't make any sense to get him for that position. Soriano used to be a SS, but we just signed Furcal, and alrady have Izturis, as well as some guy named Guzman in the minors. As far as the OF goes, if he could handle CF, it might make sense, but we've already got Drew. So that leaves RF, LF, and 1B. Soriano doesn't hit well enough to warrant spending that much money on him to play any of those 3 positions.

As brilliantly stated in the Chewbacca Defense: "IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!"

Listen up everyone, I'm not sure if all these Soriano rumors have any truth. But last night Ken Rosenthal reported a trade between Texas and L.A. on ESPN News Radio.

Soriano to the Dodgers for two unnamed AA prospects and (cash???). I know it makes little sense, but this is the HOT STOVE BABY.

Let the rumors swirl.

Maybe Colletti has plans to trade Kent in the near future. Who knows.

And did you see Grady Little's press conference. Colletti and Lasorda looked very uncomfortable to say the least. That was an awkward press conference.

In Logan White we TRUST.

It's all just rumors, it's all just rumors... or maybe, more trades are in the works, more trades are in the works...

Here's a link. That says two AA prospects for Soriano. Although it fails to mention cash considerations. Thats probably Ken Rosenthall stirring the pot.

Remember you heard it here first last night. I reported it then got a lashing from multiple people saying I was full of B.S.

Well people heres the link:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2005-12-06-winter-meetings-buzz_x.htm

Regarding Little, if there is any part of the country less likely to give the benefit of the doubt to a man with Southern accent than Los Angeles, it would be Boston.

I really think that the average New Englander subscribes to the concept of "Southerner = Stupid" and "Down East Accent = Smart"

Plaschke likes the Little hiring, therefore I am obliged to hate it.

Actually, he was probably the best of the choices. At this point I'm pretty much past the point of caring who the manager is.

Unrelated, yet interesting news, CBS has announced that it will show all out of market games in the NCAA basketball tournament for free online.

This is not going to be a great thing for worker productivity in the U.S.

Not mentioned or discussed about in the last 32 comments... vr, Xei

The Phillies have discussed a deal that would send Bobby Abreu to the Dodgers for Derek Lowe or Brad Penny.
The two teams have already met twice and are scheduled for more talks today. Considering that neither Lowe nor Penny comes cheap, the Phillies could try to force David Bell into the deal, freeing up some additional cash. Also, the Dodgers could consider throwing back Jose Cruz Jr. if the Phillies were interested. Dec. 7 - 4:19 am et
Source: Philadelphia Inquirer

182. That's what firewalls are for. :(
vr, Xei

180 I've lived both in New Hampshire (serious Red Sox Nation!) and in the South....and I find your statement of the concept to be true. I hate that it's so. It has been proven to me repeatedly by MD researchers from Ivy League institutions who come to Duke to conduct Big Science and don't like to hire locals to do their research for them because of their prejudice against the southern accent.

My favorite local bumper sticker: "I Don't Care HOW You Did It Up North."

179 All that USA Today link proves is that there is a rumor of a trade involving Soriano and the Dodgers. Uh, I think we knew that much. Given the level of attribution in that story and the context in which it's placed (amid a dozen other rumors), USA Today could have gleaned that item from this site.

The point is: The dozens of keening posts bewailing the arrival of the allegedly worthless Soriano, and comparing the stats of Jonathan Broxton with Yhency Brazoban, Sandy Koufax and God seem once again to prove Jon's point about getting too upset about these rumors. This one, the Dodgers have actually denied, at least according to Jim Hill.

Did anyone else notice they updated the article on Dodgers/Winter Meetings from last night to include a couple of paragraphs stating that the Dodgers were in multi-party talks to get Manny? I doubt anything will happen, but it was sorta interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/9u95w

187. That's interesting. Might make more sences if that part of Soriano rumors. Soriano and Bradley to the Red Sox? They need second base and weren't the Sox interested in a Manny / Soriano deal before?

wow, penny or lowe for abreu... hmmmm

i think i could sign off on that

183 - Some name dropping for you guys:

"At Little's introductory news conference, general manager Ned Colletti said the Dodgers were looking for an outfielder, a third baseman and a lefthanded relief pitcher."

OFs available: Bobby Abreu, Jason Michaels, Pat Burrell
3B: David Bell.
LRP: Rheal Cormier, Aaron Fultz, Eude Brito

Cormier, Abreu, and Burrell have no-trade clauses. The article also mentions interest in Abreu from Toronto (one of their 6 SPs) and San Diego (Adam Eaton?). Surprisingly no mention of ANY Dodger prospects.

http://tinyurl.com/8248v

Despite Lowe's price tag and Penny's injuries, I don't really see how we can give them up. The rotation is bad enough already, and it's not like there are very good options out there to replace them.

But Abreu would be sweet.

186-And how reliable is John Hill? Hey don't shoot the messenger, I'm just reporting what I heard from Rosenthal last night.

rosenthal jumped the gun. if the trade was true, he would have an article up already.

Maybe we can just discount Rosenthal from now on. Some obsessive person should keep a checklist of winter meeting pundits and their rumors vs. the final outcomes. So far, my anecdotal impression is that Rosenthal has iffy credibility. He might have the tools, but he can't hit the curveball.

194 - And his analysis is incredibly dumb.

Ronsenthal does well if the pitcher doesn't have a tough arm angle like Kirk Rueter.

Do GMs only work at night or what? No rumors since last night unless I'm missing something. Must be easier to propose a trade after you've had some whiskey in you :)

ESPN's not helping my fix much either, they have the freakin BCS senate committee hearings on ESPNews right now.

179. I don't think anyone was suggesting you were making it up. Insteat they thought ESPN or Rosenthal had it wrong (which hopefully they did).

192. Very appropriate you got Jim Hill's name wrong because he butchers everyone elses name. :)

189.

Make it Lowe.
Make it so.

Hi, it's Jon Weisman with Today's Hot Stove Curmudgeon Tip:

Before posting a rumor, why not check to see if that rumor has been posted already? Too lazy to read through everyone else's posts? Use the "find" function on your computer to type in a keyword (say, "Soriano") so you can speed through the comments.

Today's Hot Stove Curmudgeon Tip has been brought to you by Grouch-Away. Grouch-Away: The life-enhancer.

i dunno about you guys, but i cant wait for the 2006 mlb draft :)

Did you see the photo of Tommy Lasorda with Grady Little in the Times today, the one where the caption says Tommy "seems happy"? To me it seems more like he's gritting his teeth.

By the end of Plaschke's column I was expecting him to tell us Little was born in a log cabin. If not a manger.

if we do trade lowe or penny for abreu... what do we do about the rotation?

By the way, Bob, your song was great.

Dear Grouch-Away,

Don't forget to mention that the that the ever-helpful "find" function on you computer is FREE!!!

Maybe Colletti sees a little something in Choi afterall?

Dodgers.com: More likely than tying up that much money in one starting pitcher, the Dodgers figure to spread it around as they attempt to also fill holes at the corner infield spots and the outfield.

Colletti said of those spots, first base is "the least of my concerns."

maybe kim and roy showed him the numbers that a choi/saenz platoon was also as productive as konerko.

206 - Oh, good lord. Read the first paragraph of the post up top.

also= almost
they werent as productive as konerko.. but pretty dang close if you adjust for park factors!

Looking Glass never gets the credit they deserve when it comes to one hit wonders of the early 1970s.

I think they were more of a metal group so "Brandy" was really out of character for them.

And apparently the Dodgers have offered Weaver arbitration...

we should really be offering dessens arbitration. can anyone think of a reasonable excuse not too?

182 That reminds me of a day in (i think) 2003 when the Twins and Yankees had a playoff day-game that started about an hour before my Evidence class did. I sat near the back, so I could see maybe 40 people's computer screens. Literally, probably 30-35 of them had the Gamecast up on their screen. Gotta love sports-fans in the midwest. Of course, if Erstard were on the Twins, it would have been all 40.

If I remember right, that might have been the game when everyone finally realized that Bernie Williams was an embarassment to himself trying to play centerfield.

211 is a joke right? If so, funny. If not, please page the Grouch.

212 - He made 1.3M last year and thru arbitration would receive a raise. Does him making 4M in 04 have anything to do with the arbitration process? Perhaps the Dodgers figure they have enough bullpen depth already and maybe they also believe he is finished as a spot starter.

I think the Grouch is still recovering from 206.

212 - The reason would be the same reason we didn't offer arbitration to Steve Finley last year. Dessens had a good ERA the past two years with the Dodgers, and could stand to make a lot more in arbitration than his worth on the open market.

the maximum raise dessens could get in arby?

216 - I'm sorry - I sure don't like being the grouch, but it's insulting. Why should someone take the time to read something one commenter writes, when the commenter isn't willing to take the time to read what others have written?

And FirstMochican is not the only one doing it, and I'm not the only one who has been having it done to.

Ok, where ON my computer is this "find" function? vr, Xei

220 on my firefox browser, it's under the EDIT tab.

Wow, I was just reseated at the front of the class.

F4 is the key of choice if you're using IE.

221. Ok, so it's not ON the actual computer, but in your browser. :) If there are 600 posts do you need to open all the threads then just search for the "Soriano" text? That doesn't seem too hard. vr, Xei

220, 221 - seriously? Just use CTRL-F

I mean CTRL-F on IE.

219. Two questions. Is there a way to have the search include comments that have hidden (the sets of 50) besided making it show each one, and is there a way to search all previous threads, or do we need to search each one individually? Does the Google tool work for that?

So, is it really even possible that these Cabrera rumors have a grain of truth? Is there any combination of our top 5 propects that would be too much to offer? And he could play 3B until Laroche or Guzman was ready, right?

Furcal
Drew
Cabrera
Kent
Bradley
Cruz
Choi
Navarro

227... I don't think it'll search hidden comments, but opening them all up doesn't take very long. Just start from the latest and work your way to the oldest (comments 1-50).

You would have to use the google tool thing on the right sidebar to search previous threads. It just works like any internet search, but confined to Dodger Thoughts, so it will search all previous threads.

228 - I'm not holding my breath. More likely the Soriano deal happens, I guess.

Still, Cabrera is one of the few (maybe even the only, given his age) players I'd give up Guzman or someone of his caliber for.

What's interesting about putting Cabrera and Guzman in the same sentence is that Cabrera has been through much of the position switching at a young age that Guzman appears destined for.

Cabrera looks like Guzman's ceiling, hitting-wise, too.

230 Just Guzman? How about Guzman, Billingsley and Kemp? And Elbert or Broxton too? Proven commodities at that age with those skills are so rare. Although both Pujols and Wright at the same level, in terms of value as properties. Pujols is never going to be available, and Wright shouldn't either. Acquiring a Cabrera is a once in a generation type opportunity (if indeed he is available.)

233 - More than Guzman, of course. Just using him as an example. But I don't know if I could give up Billingsley, too.

Sorry Jon I can't resist with the word that Cabrerra could be had. My constraint broke down.

Trade Kent/Yhancy for Milledge/Matsui
We take Matsui off their hands they get the stud 2nd baseman and setup man that will take them to the promised land. We get the key chip we need to pry Cabrerra away from the Marlins.

Trade Milledge/LaRoche/Guzman/Broxton/E Jackson/Orenduff for Cabrerra/DTrain
Gotta give up a lot to get the best young hitter and pitcher combo. When a team makes young talent like that available you have to go for it. All of the above prospects might become impact players but we already know that Cabrerra and DTrain are impact players. Not just impact players but Cabrerra is probably the best young hitter not named Pujols and he might give Albert a run for his money soon. Plus he plays 3b.

Trade Milton/A Perez for Murton - Baker didn't travel to talk to MB for nothing. Hopefully he came away impressed enough to trade his best young hitter that he doesn't want to play. Murton overreached in his debut but he's still capable of putting up a nice 280/350/450 line.

Trade Matsui for C Nageotte(he'll be a killer in the bullpen, trust me)

Choi/(Aybar,Izzy)/Furcal/Cabrerra/Navarro
Cruz/Drew/Murton/Werth/Ledee/D Young

An offense where everyone will post a 350 OB% and only the middle infield and catcher won't be posting a 450 slug%. If Choi breaks out and Drew stays healthy this could be a WC team!!!!

Willis/Lowe/Penny/OP/Billingsly
Gagne/Sanchez/Nageotte/Kuo/Osario

We traded our some serious prospects but we still have
Billingsly , Martin , Tiffany,
Miller , Loney , D Young , Hu , DeWitt
Kemp , Elbert, Kuo, Aybar

235 - Holy cow.

If they can secure Cabrera without giving up Laroche, Billingsley, or Loney, do it.

Soriano in left would be a total cluster-f and Cabrera is only 22 and one of the best OF's in the game.

You honestly wouldn't give up any of those guys for Cabrera? If they offered Billingsly for Cabrera straight up, would you do it?

235- Make it so.

235 I can see Depo pulling the trigger on a trade like that, but not the current admininstration. Too many LA Times sportswriters going "Wha happened?"

238

I wouldnt think that would be realistic enough to consider. Billingsley straight up for Cabrera? Brooklyn bridge jokes.

My name is Marty, and I endorse post 235

I think we're all overlooking what seems obvious to me:

First base is not a worry for Colletti because Jeff Kent is going to play first base next year. I don't see where you go through Spring Training having your "veteran" guy play one position, only to switch mid-season. It looks to me as if he's building a team around Kent at 1b, with the versatile Mueller coming in as an alternate option there or at 3b.

Testing my ability to use Spanish, there's a Fernando update in a new post up top.

243 - That's certainly a possibility, although Colletti has gone on the record saying that the Kent switch wouldn't come until Izturis returns.

As far as position-switching a veteran during the season, it hasn't happened here since way back in 2004, with Shawn Green.

245 I'd already blocked Shawn Green from my memory! (Totally forgot about that!)

so I guess Ned is thinking:

Choi/Saenz at 1st until Izzy returns, then trade Saenz to an AL team for a prospect at the break and keep Choi as a LH bat on the bench. Get Soriano or possibly Cabrera for the OF, Mueller as a stopgap at 3rd until LaRoche is ready in 2007. Try to not give up Billingsley in the process.

i think that if by someway the Dodgers got a hold of Cabrera, he would be playing 3B. The only reason he played left field in Florida was because of Lowell, he was a good defensive 3B in the minors and actually has more defensive value in the infield than in the outfield. In a lot of ways, Cabrera is everything Beltre was supposed to be.

that said, this Cabrera talk is laughable, i dont think that any of these rumors are even remotely true.

Padres trade Burroughs to TB for Brazelton.

235-

...this is not the NBA

235-

...this is not the NBA

I think Kent may be trade bait, too. I can't see any other reason to go after Soriana. Well, I suppose it could be for other trades as well. If you had both, though, Kent would garner you much more interest. Just a possibility.

235-you ARE Depo--I love it!