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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodger Contract Details
2005-12-30 09:45
by Jon Weisman

What follows is a reference guide for Dodger player contract information, which I'll link to on the sidebar and update periodically.

Sandy Alomar, Jr.
2006: $650,000

Danys Baez
2006: $4,000,000

Yhency Brazoban
2005: $319,500

Hee Seop Choi
2005: $351,500
2006: $725,000, guaranteed if on Opening Day roster. (Guarantee of $118,852 if cut before the final two weeks of Spring Traning, guarantee of $178,278 if cut during final two weeks of Spring Training.)

Jose Cruz, Jr.
2006: $2,910,000, plus up to $300,000 in potential incentives
2007: $4,500,000 or $300,000 buyout

J.D. Drew
2005: $9,000,000, plus $2 million signing bonus
2006: $11,000,000, with player option to exit contract at end of season
2007: $11,000,000
2008: $11,000,000
2009: $11,000,000

Rafael Furcal
2006: $5,000,000 signing bonus and $4 million salary
2007: $13,000,000
2008: $13,000,000
2009: $4,000,000 deferred payment in January

Eric Gagne
2005: $8,000,000
2006: $10,000,000
2007: Team option: $12,000,000 or $1,000,000 buyout. (Gagne can then void the team option and receive a buyout of $250,000 to $1 million, depending games finished the next two years.)

Nomar Garciaparra
2006: $6,000,000, plus $500,000 for every 25 plate appearances beyond 375, up to $4,000,000 (with half of the incentive money deferred without interest)
2007: $7,500,000 plus $250,000 in incentives for 500 plate appearances
2008: $8,500,000 plus $250,000 in incentives for 500 plate appearances
2009-2010: $2,500,000 signing bonus from contract of November 19, 2006

Luis Gonzalez
2007: $7,350,000

D.J. Houlton
2005: $316,000

Toby Hall
2006: $2,250,000 plus plate-apperance incentives, maxing out at $250,000 for 500 plate appearances

Mark Hendrickson
2006: $1,950,000 plus an additional $25,000 at 185 and 200 innings pitched.
(Note: Dodgers received $1,000,000 in cash from Tampa Bay at time of acquisition.)

Kazuhisa Ishii
2006: $1,300,000 (share of payment for option year buyout)

Cesar Izturis
2005: $2.35 million ($2.05 million in salary, $300,000 signing bonus), plus $150,000 incentive clause for Gold Glove
2006: $3.1 million, plus $150,000 incentive clause for Gold Glove
2007: $4.15 million, plus $150,000 incentive clause for Gold Glove
2008: $5,700,000 or $300,000 buyout, plus $150,000 incentive clause for Gold Glove

Andruw Jones
2008: $9,000,000 plus $5,100,000 signing bonus
2009: $15,000,000 plus $2,100,000 signing bonus
2010: $5,000,000 signing bonus

Jeff Kent
2005: $7,600,000
2006: $9,400,000
2007: $9,000,000 plus $2,000,000 signing bonus and possible $750,000 in plate-appearance incentives
2008: Guaranteed $9,000,000 if he has 550 plate appearances in 2007. Otherwise, team option of $7,500,000 or buyout of $500,000.

Hiroki Kuroda
2007: $7,300,000 signing bonus
2008: $5,000,000
2009: $10,000,000
2010: $13,000,000

Ricky Ledee
2005: $1,000,000
2006: $1,500,000

Mike Lieberthal
2007: $1,150,000
2008: $1,400,000 team option, which could also trigger based on plate appearances, or $100,000 buyout

Kenny Lofton
2005: $3,100,000
2006: $3,500,000 plus a $350,000 signing bonus, with $50,000 incentives for 350, 400 and 450 plate appearances.

Derek Lowe
2005: $7,500,000
2006: $9,000,000
2007: $9,500,000
2008: $10,000,000

Ramon Martinez
2006: $700,000
2007: $800,000

Bill Mueller
2006: $4,250,000
2007: $4,500,000
2008: $750,000 deferred payment

Brad Penny
2005: $5,100,000
2006: $4,500,000 plus $1,000,000 bonus
2007: $7,000,000 plus $1,000,000 bonus
2008: $8,500,000 plus $1,000,000 bonus
2009: Team option: $9,250,000 or $2,000,000 buyout

Juan Pierre
2007: $7,500,000
2008: $8,000,000
2009: $10,000,000
2010: $10,000,000
2011: $8,500,000

Odalis Perez
2005: $3,000,000
2006: $7,250,000, plus $2,250,000 in deferred signing bonus, with incentives of $150,000 for 185 innings, again at 200 innings, and $200,000 for 215 innings
2007: $7,750,000, plus $2,250,000 in deferred signing bonus, with incentives of $150,000 for 185 innings, again at 200 innings, and $200,000 for 215 innings
2008: $9,000,000, with incentives of $150,000 for 185 innings, again at 200 innings, and $200,000 for 215 innings, or $1,500,000 buyout

Jason Repko
2005: $316,000

Olmedo Saenz
2005: $650,000
2006: $1,000,000
2007: $1,000,000

Takashi Saito
2007: $1,000,000 plus $25,000 each for finishing 30, 35, 40 and 45 games, $50,000 each for finishing 50 and 55 games and $100,000 for finishing 60 games.

Duaner Sanchez
2005: $332,000

Steve Schmoll
2005: $316,000

Jason Schmidt
2007: $12,500,000
2008: $12,000,000
2009: $12,000,000
2010-2011: $10,500,000 signing bonus due

Brett Tomko
2006: $3,600,000
2007: $4,100,000
2008: $4,500,000 or $1,000,000 buyout or player opt-out

Jayson Werth
2005: $337,000

Randy Wolf
2007: $8,000,000
2008: $9,000,000 club option (automatic with 180 innings pitched in 2007) or $500,000 buyout

Kelly Wunsch
2005: $550,000
2006: $650,000, non-guaranteed, with bonuses of $25,000 at 40, 50 and 60 appearances.

Comments (188)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-12-30 09:49:26
1.   Jon Weisman
One thing I found out, by the way, is that half of Odalis Perez's $4.5 million signing bonus is due in November 2006, according to the Register. I had thought none of it was due until 2007.
2005-12-30 09:58:34
2.   Steve
We gave Tomko an option on a third year? Geesh. I need to lay off the egg nog.
2005-12-30 10:02:49
3.   Sam DC
I just read the details of Odalis Perez' contract. I think I need some egg nog.
2005-12-30 10:08:38
4.   Steve
3 -- It looks like you can just stop reading after the words "deferred signing bonus." The rest of it is irrelevant.
2005-12-30 10:10:40
5.   blue22
3 - 2yrs/$21M in guaranteed money, plus another $500K per year in incentives? Do I have that correct?

And people thought we'd be able to trade him...

2005-12-30 10:12:23
6.   Sam DC
What does it mean for Wunschbucket's contract to be non-guaranteed. I thought all contracts in baseball were guaranteed?
2005-12-30 10:13:46
7.   MartinBillingsley31
Excellent information Jon, thank you for it.

It would be great if you had a list of players with options and how many they have.

I'm trying to figure out who has options out of all of these guys:

If you know any information on options of the above players, i'd appreciate the info.

2005-12-30 10:14:56
8.   Steve
Choi's contract isn't guaranteed either, I thought. If they send him to LV, they don't have to pay him. Yes? No?
2005-12-30 10:17:07
9.   Bob Timmermann
Let's all wish Sandy Koufax a happy 70th birthday today.
2005-12-30 10:17:22
10.   Jon Weisman
7 - I don't have that handy, but I'll add it to the post if someone provides it.

8 - Yeah, you're right - it's only partially guaranteed. I'll look that up.

2005-12-30 10:18:26
11.   MartinBillingsley31

Cool, thanks Jon.

2005-12-30 10:20:53
12.   Jon Weisman
8/10 - From the Daily News:

It doesn't contain a standard-guarantee provision, meaning Choi receives only a percentage of his salary if he is released before Opening Day. If he is cut during the final two weeks of camp, Choi will get $178,278. If he is cut earlier than that, he will receive $118,852.

2005-12-30 10:31:53
13.   oldbear
In 2007, Izzy+Mueller+Tomko=12.6 mils.


Pass the egg nog indeed.

2005-12-30 10:43:01
14.   Jon Weisman
Is it safe to assume that this eggnog has been left standing since Sunday?
2005-12-30 10:49:23
15.   HomeDePo
Has anybody ever tried freezing eggnog for later in the year? I fell in love with 'Le Nog' and coffee earlier this season and I was wondering if it still had the same importance.
2005-12-30 10:52:00
16.   Bob Timmermann
My father tried that (he owned a convenience store and often had some left over).

As I recall, it didn't taste very good. This was just the non-alcoholic egg nog in the carton, not the mix that is already seasoned and liquored up.

2005-12-30 10:54:27
17.   HomeDePo

Thanks Bob.

2005-12-30 10:55:11
18.   Marty
Egg nog is something I've never liked. Even with booze in it.
2005-12-30 10:55:55
19.   HomeDePo

Ever tried it with coffee (it works with alcohol and without)?

2005-12-30 10:56:44
20.   HomeDePo
If you know where any are, Gelson's have the best non-alcoholic eggnog.
2005-12-30 11:02:29
21.   Marty
I tend to be a coffee snob, so I doubt I would like it with eggnog. It's just the way I am.
2005-12-30 11:19:52
22.   Suffering Bruin
(A crisp winter day in Los Angeles. A boy sweating profusely enters an apartment rubbing his shoulder. He is a third grader and wondering about the meaning of "Christmas vacation." His father is on the internet.)

BOY: "Dad?"

MAN: "Yes, my son."

BOY: "Can I stop throwing the baseball now?"

MAN: (Dad reads Odalis Perez contract details) "No."

2005-12-30 11:27:04
23.   FirstMohican
I'll pass on the eggnog but add me to the list of people who weren't up to speed on the specifics of Odalis' contract. Amazingly DePodesta hadn't gotten too much flak for that one (that I'd noticed).

I may be in the minority but I still think JD Drew's contract isn't that relatively bad if he stops being fastball-on-wrist-prone.

2005-12-30 11:35:53
24.   Vishal
back-to-back interceptions for drew olson.
2005-12-30 11:37:40
25.   Suffering Bruin
24 Egg nog, please, and make it a strong one.
2005-12-30 11:37:55
26.   Jon Weisman
22 - LOL
2005-12-30 11:40:17
27.   Sam DC
SB -- apparently Tiger Woods just bought a $40 million tear-down.

Maybe he could switch to putting for a while?

(Also, the article reports that Woods owns a 155-foot yacht called "Privacy." OK, we get it, but that's a pretty lame name for a boat.)

2005-12-30 11:41:10
28.   Sam DC
27 "he" = kid from 22, not Tiger, whose short game is looking pretty good.
2005-12-30 11:42:42
29.   Vishal
[25] at least northwestern can't seem to make an extra-point.
2005-12-30 11:42:42
30.   Marty
Tiger turned 30 today. That really makes me feel old.
2005-12-30 11:47:11
31.   Vishal
and there's #3. olson now has more interceptions than completions. oh, and maurice drew is injured. this has the makings of a dark day for ucla.
2005-12-30 11:49:56
32.   Jon Weisman
31 - Is he tipping his pitches?

Didn't he have only about three interceptions all year before today?

The score is now worse than Stanford's 23-3 opening deficit last night.

2005-12-30 11:57:41
33.   CharlieBrown
I have been a strong defender of DePo in the past (perhaps since so much of the criticism of him seemed unfair and thoughtless) but as other people are noting, some of these contracts are pretty bad.

Izturis for over 4 million in 2007? I guess if he hit like 2004 that would be palatable.

It is hard to imagine Lowe, Odalis and Penny being worth the money in the latter parts of their contracts.

I guess I always thought that because DePo was a sharp guy who really wanted to learn the game, he would make good moves. Some of these pitcher contracts look pretty bad, though.

There is some consolation in knowing that the things DePo was hung in effigy for (LoDuca, Beltre, being from Harvard) have nothing to do with these questionable deals.

2005-12-30 12:03:42
34.   Vishal
[32] he's been throwing high, which led to a pick when a pass went off the hands of marcedes lewis... another time a pass got deflected as he threw the ball, and once he got totally surprised by the presence of a defender in the middle of a short screen pass.
2005-12-30 12:04:06
35.   Andrew Shimmin
32- The first one was a dumb throw, but the next two were off tipped balls. Bad luck.
2005-12-30 12:07:41
36.   regfairfield
33 IN 2007, Orlando Cabrera will make eight million and Edgar Renteria will make 11 million. It's perfectly reasonable.
2005-12-30 12:08:37
37.   Blu2
8_ No lawyer but I think: Choi can't be 'sent down' to Las Vegas; he would be paid whatever the relevant numbers on his contract are, then he could be offerred a minor league contract at minimum or greater or he could refuse. Then I am not sure whether he would be placed on waivers for someone else to claim or whether he would become a free agent to make his own deal. I think the latter more likely. It would be nice if he were sent to Las Vegas, I could go meet him.
2005-12-30 12:20:44
38.   LAT
What's with the Northwestern kicker missing the PATs. That could come back to haunt them.
2005-12-30 12:34:17
39.   Vishal
[38] well, the game is already tied now, so you just might be right.
2005-12-30 12:36:36
40.   Andrew Shimmin
38- Well, he's getting a lot of practice. Maybe he'll be better after halftime.
2005-12-30 12:37:40
41.   Andrew Shimmin
There may be a psychological explanation for his PAT woes. Wanna have a crack at it Bob?
2005-12-30 12:40:43
42.   D4P
Bob is laughing. Direct your invitation toward Penarol instead.
2005-12-30 12:45:23
43.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA and Northwestern are studies in defensive ineptitude. Northwestern makes Chris Markey look like Reggie Bush, which shouldn't happen. He's good. But he's not that good.
2005-12-30 12:46:02
44.   oldbear
Thats why I was opposed to signing Tomko. Odalis Perez would be real hard to move given his contract. I guess Derek Lowe could move into the bullpen in 2007 in order to open up a spot in the rotation.

I think 12.5 mils for 3 spare parts could have been turned into 1 star level player.

2005-12-30 12:46:36
45.   Andrew Shimmin
Does Northwestern lead the league in QBs with French sounding names?
2005-12-30 12:50:29
46.   Bob Timmermann
Northwestern leads the Big Ten in alums who think that they don't have to light a match after using the bathroom.

Trying to keep it family-oriented here.

2005-12-30 12:57:09
47.   D4P
Which school is the Pac-10 counterpart?
2005-12-30 12:58:00
48.   Penarol1916
Northwestern has a statistically worse defense than UCLA's, which is even more astounding when you consider the fact that they play in the Big 11.
As for snobbishness, they are just the Vandy/Stanford/Duke of the Big 11 in that regard.
2005-12-30 12:58:41
49.   LAT
On my way to the office I was listening to some analyist talking about how important this game was to UCLA recruiting and that if they lost it could really set them back. If this game is as sloppy as it looks on the internet, even if UCLA wins it could hurt them.

Why can't Dorell get 4 quarters out of his team. I veiw these comebacks as a coaching failure not a victory. If they are able to comeback at will why can't he get them up for the game in the first place so as to not fall behind by 20.

2005-12-30 12:59:40
50.   Bob Timmermann

No Pac-10 school has alums like Northwestern's. The two private schools (USC and Stanford) generally have normal alums.

Probably the closest would be UCLA alums. (Disclosure: Lifetime member of the UCLA Alumni Association)

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-12-30 13:00:12
51.   Steve
For the same reason that Mike Scioscia orders his players to hit 40 points better with runners in scoring position.
2005-12-30 13:02:17
52.   Penarol1916
50. Oh, I completely disagree with you, Stanford alumsn are very much like Northwestern alumns in this regard, I only know two UCLA alums, so I can't really address the other part of that statement.
2005-12-30 13:02:37
53.   Sam DC
From the Kobe suspension article on "Bryant will lose $144,971.59 in salary for each game he sits out."

SB -- another option?

2005-12-30 13:03:30
54.   Sam DC
Oh dear.
2005-12-30 13:03:58
55.   Bob Timmermann
I know several Stanford alums and several Northwestern alums. And I went to Northwestern's Rose Bowl appearance. There were no redeeming humans among the Northwestern alums.

At UCLA-Stanford football games, you can generally just joke back and forth between the two groups.

The Northwestern alums treated everyone else like they were algae.

2005-12-30 13:05:09
56.   D4P
Will Kobe be able to feed his family?
2005-12-30 13:06:26
57.   LAT
Wow. the over/under for this game is 74.5. Still a ways to go to get the over.
2005-12-30 13:07:30
58.   Bob Timmermann
The Northwestern fans at the Rose Bowl made fun of the facility as being old. They didn't like the parking. They didn't like the concession stands. They just complained.

As someone who lives in the shadow of the Rose Bowl and holds the Grandaddy of Them All in great reverence, the Wildcat fans should have been more respectful, especially since they hadn't been out since 1949.

2005-12-30 13:10:20
59.   Andrew Shimmin
56- Not one redeeming human? If anybody here lives near Northwestern, make sure your wife doesn't look back when G-d lays waste to it. Also, does that Make U of Chicago Gamorrah?
2005-12-30 13:11:03
60.   Andrew Shimmin
Sorry; should be 55.
2005-12-30 13:13:14
61.   Bob Timmermann
And my sister-in-law went to Northwestern!
2005-12-30 13:13:15
62.   Daniel Zappala
Stanford alums are the nicest people I know.
2005-12-30 13:13:35
63.   Steve
Are there other examples of showing pre-game scrimmages on nationwide television? When is the Sun Bowl?
2005-12-30 13:14:10
64.   Penarol1916
58. That reminds of when a couple of my roommates friends from Stanford came to spend a weekend at our apartment in Georgetown when all they did was complain about how dirty and old and small the campus was.
I know several very nice Stanford and Northwestern alums, but they all have that arrogance that makes them think that they went to better school than you did.
2005-12-30 13:15:46
65.   D4P
In all fairness, I was very disappointed with Georgetown's campus.
2005-12-30 13:17:39
66.   Penarol1916
U of C would be Gamorrah only if being a nerd was a sin. Things got so bad there that the administration decided to move the shorten the library's hours so it closed at midnight in order to encourage actual student socializing and it caused a protest highlighted by the sign "My parents aren't spending $35,000 a year so that I can learn to tap a keg."
2005-12-30 13:19:55
67.   Penarol1916
65. Ah, but did you complain about it to every Georgetown student you met for 3 days straight and only bring up that subject every time you talked to a student or alum thereafter?
2005-12-30 13:23:03
68.   Marty
Jon shows his Stanford arrogance all the time :)
2005-12-30 13:24:27
69.   D4P
Can't say as I did.
2005-12-30 13:27:01
70.   Andrew Shimmin
If I'd had good grades, better SAT scores, and lots of money, I'd have liked to go to U of C. On the other hand, if the river were whisky, and I was a diving duck. . .
2005-12-30 13:33:59
71.   Penarol1916
71. It's a great place to go if you are a really serious student and want an undergraduate education akin to graduate school, but man, that was the most depressing college visit I ever took, the best part was when the guys I stayed with decided to figure out where to go for pizza based on the price per square inch.
2005-12-30 13:34:33
72.   Sam DC
If you were going to treat someone like algae, what would you do? Chlorinate them? Feed them to an 'O'opu nopili (see
2005-12-30 13:35:36
73.   Jon Weisman
64 - As B.A. Stanford, M.A. Georgetown, I guess I can weigh in.

Georgetown is smaller and older, but it's certainly lovely. I admit I was shocked at how much smaller it was than Stanford.

Stanford is getting too built up now, though.

I do find it a little hard to believe that people visting Georgetown would spend an entire weekend complaining about the campus. It's not like being stuck in a lousy hotel room - it has no direct impact on you. Clearly, it seems to have happened, but it's just strange in and of itself.

2005-12-30 13:35:58
74.   Daniel Zappala
So it's OK to extract from a small sample size when dealing with alums but not baseball players? Man, Jon really needs an FAQ for this site.
2005-12-30 13:36:41
75.   HomeDePo
23 FirstMohican

I may be in the minority but I still think JD Drew's contract isn't that relatively bad if he stops being fastball-on-wrist-prone.

What is so bad about J.D. Drew being the best fastball hitter in the league?

It is okay if he can hit fastballs, but we need somebody on base before him so the pitcher has to throw the heat.

2005-12-30 13:40:15
76.   Jon Weisman
Is my Gamecast correct that it is now 129 minutes into the UCLA-Northwestern telecast and the second half has not started?
2005-12-30 13:40:54
77.   King of the Hobos
75 Did you read that correctly? I think he meant Drew's wrists are targets for fastballs, which we all know is true and Drew has the ability to play afterwards, he just chooses not to. Of course, you could be referring to something else entirely, such as his fastball hitting ability
2005-12-30 13:51:12
78.   Bob Timmermann
I still had enough time to go to the Post Office, grocery store and bank and just missed two three and outs!
2005-12-30 13:53:17
79.   Penarol1916
73. People are wierd, but it's fun to use the wierdness of some people to brand everyone who has something in common with them.
Personally, I'm surprised that anyone who has attended a game at Northwestern's football stadium would complain about the Rose Bowl, since the only advantage that it has is that it is very close to an El stop.
2005-12-30 14:03:47
80.   Bob Timmermann
I definitely no that no one who has been to a football game at Stanford Stadium would complain about the Rose Bowl.

Neither stadium was known for its amenities. But Stanford is having a major renovation now.

2005-12-30 14:04:14
81.   jasonungar05
While attend CSU CHICO I visited Stanford and Georgtown. I don't really remember much. LOL
2005-12-30 14:08:26
82.   Jon Weisman
80 - The only thing I can think of is that the walk from campus is shorter to Stanford Stadium.
2005-12-30 14:13:43
83.   Bob Timmermann
For a stadium that hosted a Super Bowl, World Cup matches, and Olympic events, Stanford Stadium wasn't the fanciest place.

During my one visit there, Stanford allowed fans to bring beer and other alcohol into the stadium. That was in 1987.

2005-12-30 14:39:42
84.   Jacob L
NU-UCLA has suddenly become a defensive showdown in the second half.

This is a game between 2 schools that I came close to attending. I often wonder what my life would have been like had I gone to Northwestern. I got into the journalism school, which is a pretty big deal. I didn't enjoy my campus visit. My parents didn't like the tuition, and the rest is history. I guess, to answer my own question, had I gone there, I would be a jerk.

2005-12-30 14:55:21
85.   Bob Timmermann

Yes, you were saved from a life that you would have had to have led facing my scorn.


Consider yourself fortunate.

2005-12-30 15:16:48
86.   D4P
Hell hath no fury like a Timmermann scorned.
2005-12-30 15:29:05
87.   Daniel Zappala
Anyone who is actually watching the game care to tell me how UCLA managed to score two touchdowns on what appear to be two consecutive onsides-kick attempts? I don't think I've ever seen ONE onsides-kick returned for a touchdown.
2005-12-30 15:32:20
88.   Andrew Shimmin
87- The first one, UCLA's Brazell (or however that's spelt) cut in front of the onslaught and picked up the ball before it had made it ten yards. There was nobody left to knock him down. The next one he cut back more quickly than anybody else, and nobody caught up. Pretty trippy. I'm just glad the game is finally over.
2005-12-30 15:33:32
89.   Bob Timmermann
Well, that football game was different.
2005-12-30 15:35:22
90.   Linkmeister
87 If it's any consolation, it flabbergasted the announcers too. I was eating my PB&H(oney) sandwich and missed a bite during the second runback, I was so surprised.

I thought Northwestern students were supposed to be smart, but kicking a second onside kick to the same guy after he's burned you once seems like a missed learning experience.

2005-12-30 15:36:14
91.   Bob Timmermann
It's Breazell.

He's the first Pac-10 player to have 2 kickoff returns for TDs in a game since Anthony Davis did it against Notre Dame in 1972.

Rocket Ismail had two games with 2 kickoff returns for TDs.

2005-12-30 18:17:22
92.   Sam DC
86 That's scorning, not scorned, I think.
2005-12-30 19:21:53
93.   Eric Enders
Half the contingent I went to the game with decided to leave after the first onside kick. I guess I'm glad I stuck around to witness a bit of history. Although I got a bit more sunburned for my trouble.

And I was rooting for Northwestern because their fans seemed a nicer bunch than UCLA's.

2005-12-30 19:22:28
94.   Telemachos
Has anyone mentioned that Dodger Thoughts has been nominated for Best Baseball Blog of the Year at C|Net?

Follow the link to vote:

2005-12-30 20:04:03
95.   Bob Timmermann


2005-12-30 20:05:30
96.   D4P
Scorn away, Mr. UCLA.
2005-12-30 20:07:35
97.   Eric Enders
95 Proving my point for me... ;)
2005-12-30 21:49:07
98.   King of the Hobos
Tracy has some influence in Pittsburgh, guess who they just signed? Mike Edwards will re-unite with his manager as he inexplicably becomes the Pirates starting RF. Actually, it was a minor league contract, but I think it's safe to assume...
2005-12-30 21:51:19
99.   Uncle Miltie
98- I just burst out laughing. Edwards might get more at bats in the outfield than Craig Wilson.
2005-12-30 21:56:58
100.   Xeifrank
it's been a strange last couple of days for me. As I actually went to see a movie the other day and plan on seeing another one tomorrow. The other day I took my niece and nephew to see the Chronicles of Narnia. It was a decent movie. The only annoying part was the young girl sitting behind me with her grandmother who had obviously seen the movie a few times. She kept talking about what was going to happen next. I politely put an end to that. Tomorrow the wife and I will see Memiors of a Geisha. She picked this movie mostly for ethnicity reasons, as the three main actors are supposedly very famous chinese actors. The movie is kind of ironic, as the story comes from a male/caucasian and the actors are chinese, but it's about a japanese woman. Then I went bowling today, which I hadn't done for 12 years. I managed to bowl a 155, which shocked me. Don't you just love movie talk?? :)
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-12-30 22:04:58
101.   LAT
Frank, welcome to
Haven't seen Geisha the movie but it is a beautifully written book. Two movies in a week-isn't that some sort of personal record.:-)
2005-12-30 22:22:54
102.   Scanman33
Scratch Mike Edwards off your wishlists. Tracy has nabbed him and taken him to Pittsburgh:

2005-12-30 22:27:40
103.   overkill94
94 We're gonna have to recruit some new IP addresses to win this thing, Dodger Thoughts needs about 500 more votes to overtake some Cubs blog for first place. Come on McCourt, hire Tom Niedenfeuer as pitching coach or something to get more traffic to this site :)
2005-12-30 22:53:17
104.   D4P
Next time you're sitting around trying to figure out what it was that Tracy saw in Edwards, you might also want to ponder what it was that Depo saw in him.
2005-12-30 23:04:32
105.   Scanman33
I'm pretty sure Depo saw "3B with a good OBP who can be AAA roster filler", as opposed to what Tracy saw, which was "Gritty minor leaguer veteran who paid his dues not unlike myself who gives his all on the field and as such deserves playing time over more talented options".
2005-12-30 23:06:10
106.   Scanman33
BTW, welcome back D4P.
2005-12-30 23:10:27
107.   D4P
Thanks, scan. Have you taken the GRE yet?
2005-12-30 23:13:48
108.   Scanman33
No, I don't need to take it until I have actually started the classes, which I don't think will be until May or so. I just have to take it and don't need a minimum score or anything like that. I should have figured that, given the nitwits I see in administrative positions. Isn't education grand?
2005-12-30 23:15:17
109.   D4P
So, you are wanting to go into administration? Do you want to be a principal?
2005-12-30 23:30:15
110.   Scanman33
Nah, I'm just getting it to get it. I highly doubt I'll ever use it. I'm giving up the athletic director job after this year and am looking forward to spending more time w/ the wife and the little one and probably stay on and coach baseball. I think wife wants me to be an admin, but I kind of like having a soul.
2005-12-30 23:45:12
111.   D4P
I can't see myself ever being in admin either. I know college deans and presidents make big bucks, but I don't think I'd enjoy the work they do.

I should probably go to bed now. Give Allison a diaper change for me.

2005-12-31 10:07:42
112.   oldbear
Jim Tracy was just one of a kind.

--Starting Brian Myrow at 1st.
--Having Milton bunt in front of Kent
--Starting Jason Phillips at 1st
--Batting Oscar Robles in the #3 spot
--Batting Izturis leadoff
--Bunting Drew/Choi in the same game
--Batting Jason Repko in the #2 spot

I cant honestly can see Grady Little making similar mistakes, if he remembers how he made his lineup in Boston.

Tracy can have Edwards, Gio Carrara, Sean Casey, Joe Randa...

2005-12-31 10:09:05
113.   oldbear
--The countless failed hit n runs.
--Izzy/Robles combining for 8-24 in SB's.

I'm still amazed that DePo put up with it, and did so with class.

2005-12-31 10:18:13
114.   D4P
I'm still amazed that DePo put up with it, and did so with class.

I'm not sure "class" is the word I would use. I actually lost respect for Depo because of his unwillingness to get rid of Tracy despite the obvious need to do so.

2005-12-31 11:07:46
115.   dzzrtRatt
Maybe 2005 proves that superior player evaluation skills are just not enough.

DePo tried to deal with Tracy by Tracy-proofing his roster. In retrospect, that was a colossal mistake. A good GM has to be more ruthless than that. DePodesta seemed to believe that rational thought would eventually enlighten everybody and guide their actions. Paul, ask yourself, when has that ever been the case?

Colletti looks like a guy who keeps a rusty, jagged-edged knife in his desk, just in case the nice guy act doesn't work.

2005-12-31 11:15:54
116.   D4P
DePodesta seemed to believe that rational thought would eventually enlighten everybody and guide their actions. Paul, ask yourself, when has that ever been the case?

Exactly. That was always my concern with Paul. While he may have been Sabremetrically "correct" to discount everything that wasn't a statistic, experience has shown that other things cannot be ignored completely. You at least have to pay lip service to them.

2005-12-31 11:32:19
117.   dsfan

What do you mean by superior evaluation skills? Are you referring to the architects of the 2005 LAD? Not clear on what you are saying exactly.

2005-12-31 14:24:12
118.   dzzrtRatt
117 DePodesta's superior player evaluation skills relied in part on his creative and insightful use of metrics, as documented in "Moneyball." But in terms of his Dodger experience, I believe the evidence is pretty clear that DePodesta understood that the strength of the Dodger team he took over in 2004 was primarily in its farm system, and thus he ran the team with an eye toward short-term, almost cosmetic improvements that would allow the team the breathing room it needed to wait for the farm products to be major-league ready.

Consequently, DePo deployed overvalued major league assets like Paul LoDuca, as well as salary savings, to enhance the team as best as one could, bringing in Brad Penny, J.D. Drew, Jeff Kent, Milton Bradley, Derek Lowe, Jayson Werth, Hee Seop Choi, Yhency Brazoban, Jose Cruz, Jr. and Dioner Navarro--along with many lesser role-players. Not to rehash what has been endlessly rehashed, but had the 2005 Dodgers managed to avoid an unusual wave of injuries, the team would've likely been a marginal contender, with an intact chain of great prospects for the future. In an ideal world, DePo might've filled the team's short-term needs with even better players, but the ones he found available on the market mostly played well, when healthy.

What's noteworthy is that Ned Colletti, supposedly a follower of a player evaluation methodology much different from DePo's, has essentially pursued the same strategy: Don't let go of the prospects, use FA cash to plug the short-term holes. He apparently agrees with DePo on the continued value of Navarro, Lowe, Drew, Penny and Cruz; only on Choi do they apparently disagree.

My point was that knowing what constitutes a good ballplayer is evidently not enough for a GM to be successful. DePodesta's firing was unjustified, but it was his weakness as a leader that led to it. His inability to handle Jim Tracy was a glaring flaw.

Given more time, would DePo have developed the decisiveness and leadership insights needed to be a complete GM? Probably. He might've been promoted to GM too early in his career.

2005-12-31 15:00:15
119.   dsfan
118 --


Am I right to assume you believe Depodesta showed himself to be a "superior" evaluator of player talent? Are you saying superior to the "average" GM or superior to Jim Tracy?

Just trying to be clear.

You find Depo's leadership skills lacking. That seems not only accurate, but critical. Carrying out a vision, communicating well and extracting timely information from both within the industry and the LAD franchise is a critical aspect of being a GM, and leadership plays into it.

Lots of excellent talent evaluators would make for terrible GMs. Some realize it themselves and don't even aspire for a GM job.

While it's hard for us outsiders to grade Depo's leadership skills, I'm inclined to agree with you. I'd give him a D, maybe a D-plus in that area.

2005-12-31 15:41:52
120.   dzzrtRatt
119 Over the course of his career, I think DePo's shown himself to be an above-average talent evaluator; objective and results-focused. Compared with other GMs? Hard to say. How much of the A's success was DePo, how much Beane? He certainly didn't have enough time in LA except--one of my points--his judgments have been validated in retrospect by Colletti, mostly. It could turn out they're BOTH wrong about the value of keeping Billingsley, Jackson, Loney, LaRoche, Guzman, et. al. out of the greedy mitts of other teams.

Compared with Tracy? Not even close. Tracy valued the cliched "intangibles" over actual performance. He's a hair-shirt baseball guy. Sacrifice bunts and other "productive outs" are a sign of character, whether or not they help you win. Good character is more important than skill. A team full of scrappy character guys would fill out a Tracy roster. Actual baseball talent would be nice-to-have, but inessential, according to Tracyball.

2005-12-31 16:41:08
121.   Marty
hair-shirt baseball guy. I love that phrase.
2005-12-31 16:46:11
122.   Bob Timmermann
Thomas Beckett was a noted hairshirt wearer.

"Oh who will rid me of this vexsome manager?"

2005-12-31 18:17:41
123.   dsfan
Well, Tracy did manage the first LAD team to win a division since 1995, but managers and GMs are tend to evaluate differently, so it's probably not good to compare there.

I'm not sure what to make of Depo as an evaluator of player talent. Going strictly by his LAD tenure, I'm not sure there's enough there to grade him. Was he any better than Evans on that score? Maybe. He was better than Kevin Malone. Seemed sharper than Chuck Lamar. But he's no Theo Epstein, near as I can tell.

I'd be a little careful about reading too much into Depo's decision to hold onto the prospects who are generally regarded as the best guys: LaRoche, Guzman, Billingsley, Loney, Elbert and Martin. None of those guys had even logged a full season in Double-A. Keeping them was no great challenge.

Don't forget, according to Kevin Towers, in the spring of 2004 Paul Depodesta offered Beltre straight up for Sean Burroughs, a player that Depo/Beane admired greatly while they were in Oakland.

Had Towers said yes, the 2004 Dodgers wouldn't have been so successful. More to the point, the call on Burroughs seemingly was a bad one. Burroughs regressed in 2004 and again in 2005. And what does it say about Depo's valuation of 3B Laroche that he offered Beltre for 3B Burroughs, then just 24?

We could break down a lot of moves. I think Depo actually deserves more credit for trading the prospects he did trade to get Bradley. That was a good move. Admittedly, Depo was fortunate. He inherited a pretty good farm system that enticed the Indians, who also heard from the A's and Pirate; and the timing of Milton's tantrum put the Indians in a bind. But I liked that trade. Althought Franklin Gutirrez is far from a bust, Bradley, for all his problems, gave good returns for low money.

The parallel between Depo and Colletti on holding onto the farm is an interesting one. Might it also reflect Logan White's increased profile within the LAD franchise? Just a thought.

Happy new year to all, lots of interesting reads here.

2005-12-31 18:31:56
124.   Marty
Well, I'm off to a new year's get-together. I suspect I'll be taking a cab home. Happy New Year's to everyone out there. My dogs, Sam and Frannie woof you a happy new year's too!
2005-12-31 21:45:14
125.   deburns
I concur with dzzratt (sp?)'s analysis, if not his spelling. I think DePo's short stay in LA is yet to be fairly rated, but I think he at least did not violate the basball equivalent of the Hippocratic oath. Here's hoping we all (including the Dodgers) have a great 2006.
2005-12-31 22:45:51
126.   Xeifrank
The wife and I enjoyed the Memoirs of a Geisha movie this evening. A special thanks to grandma and grandpa for all the great babysitting they did for us in 2005. Two good movies in one week, that's got to be some kind of record for me. Spielberg did a good job and Yo Yo Ma was wonderful with his cello solos in the movie. vr, Xei
2006-01-01 01:15:10
127.   Strike4
Wow, the first submitted Dodger Thought of 2006! My New Year's resolution is to get my DT addiction under control. My New Year's wish is that McCourt will stay absorbed with his wacky deals so that running the Dodgers is left to Colletti, Little and all the great contributors of Dodger Thoughts.
2006-01-01 01:16:56
128.   LAT
Happy New Year One and All. I hope this year brings each of you and your family health and happiness.
2006-01-01 09:12:05
129.   Blue Thrue and Thrue
118 "DePodesta's firing was unjustified, but it was his weakness as a leader that led to it. His inability to handle Jim Tracy was a glaring flaw."

DePo wasn't operating in a vacuum, of course. For all we know, he marched into McCourt's office in June and demanded Tracy's firing. What we DO know is that Tracy had a powerful supporter in Lasorda, so maybe DePo's hands were tied. Maybe he fell into an impossible situation, trying to implement a vision with little support from the organization.

I don't know this to be true, but it seems as plausible as any scenario.

You say he's no Epstein, dsfan, but Theo had the support of his organization. Oh, and he also had nearly double the payroll.

2006-01-01 12:40:24
130.   Michael Green
As to 129, I am not convinced that Lasorda was a strong Tracy supporter. My impression of him is that he always has been a Lasorda supporter, and anyone who gets in his way will pay the price (I still laugh about Lasorda resenting that Bill Russell didn't seek his advice as manager, and Russell saying he didn't remember Lasorda calling Walter Alston for help). Remember, Lasorda now loves Colletti, but Lasorda clearly had something to do with the now seemingly forgotten master plan to bring in Hershiser and Valentine, et al.

As to DePodesta, I don't just say this because I'm a history professor or I like cliches, but time will tell. While I think Colletti is following his playbook to an extent, DePo certainly didn't make free agent deals to the extent that Colletti has. And if Tracy was that big a problem for him, DePo should have done basically what Lasorda has done: try to get his way and, if that fails, find his own version of Plaschke to get the word out.

2006-01-01 12:49:01
131.   molokai
The New Year is off to a great start. Last year my best friend's son passed away. He reversed his operation and they quickly got pregnant again. Last night they delivered a bouncing baby boy just before midnight. Now that is how you celebrate a new year. Happy New Year to all:)
2006-01-01 13:01:43
132.   SiGeg
130 -- "DePo certainly didn't make free agent deals to the extent that Colletti has"

You mean besides O. Perez, Lowe, Kent, and Drew (to mention the major ones only)? That sounds like revisionist history to me. To this point, both DePo and Colletti have been about equally active in the free-agent market, but DePo's moves were higher impact overall, for better or worse.

131 -- Great story!

2006-01-01 13:45:36
133.   Michael Green
First, 131, that is a beautiful story and a great way to start the year.

130--I follow what you mean, but I wasn't trying to do revisionist history. I would say and should have said that Colletti made more of an impression with his signings--rightly or wrongly, for better or worse. Drew, remember, followed the departure of Beltre, and wasn't Perez originally an acquisition?

2006-01-01 14:24:25
134.   SiGeg
133 -- I'm not sure I follow you. Yes, Drew was signed after Beltre left as a free agent, but I don't understand how that changes anything. DePo could have not made a major free agent signing even though Beltre left -- or he could have made a trade for a big bat. He didn't. He signed a major free agent to a large contract. As for Perez, yes he had been a Dodger before he was a free agent. Again, I don't understand how that changes anything. Drew, Perez, Kent, and Lowe were all huge free agent signings -- big name players and large contracts. Furcal is the only signing for Colletti that comes close to these in its impact. Tomko is a minor signing compared to Perez or Lowe. Mueller and Lofton are small pieces compared to Drew or Kent.

If you think that Colletti made MORE of an impression with his signings (rather than, say, a different kind of impression), perhaps that's a comment on the way the media has portrayed DePo vs. the way it has portrayed Colletti? But your original comment was about whether or not Colletti had followed DePo's general playbook, and I think to say that the major difference is that Colletti has been more extensive in his use of free agents is inaccurate.

2006-01-01 15:12:13
135.   LAT
Plaschke has finally found a subject to write on for which he is uniquely qualified: Bull. However, there is no professional curtsey because apparently Bevo dislikes him as much as the rest of us.

Thanks. I'll be here all week.

2006-01-01 17:19:25
136.   Andrew Shimmin
Caught the replay of Fox News Sunday. Charles Krauthammer predicted that the Dodgers and the Angels would win pennents, this year. By buying them. He seemed to find it distasteful. I predict he'll be happily surprised.
2006-01-01 17:23:28
137.   Andrew Shimmin
Eek. Penn*a*nts. Presumably, he had it spelled €correctly on his cue card.
2006-01-01 17:24:39
138.   Andrew Shimmin
Right. Time to go back to bed.
2006-01-01 18:44:18
139.   LAT
A friend got me into Lucky Strike Bowling Lanes this evening where the UT Longhorns were having a bowling outting. Those are some big big farm fed boys. There was a buffet and you'd have thought these guys hadnt eaten in a month. They each took three of every entree. Not being a UT fan I only recognized Vince Young and Mack Brown.

That said, I'm still taking SC and giving the points.

2006-01-01 18:58:56
140.   Marty
I'm extremely biased, but I think SC wins by at least 21. Their defense is underrated and the Big 12 is a really soft conference right now.
2006-01-01 19:28:28
141.   jpeace
I've endured watching many hard Laker moments, but Tommy blabbering during my LAKER game is simply unbearable.
2006-01-01 19:53:40
142.   D4P
Just a reminder: replacing Choi with Nomah was bad, but it could have been worse.

*Free agent J.T. Snow is close to signing with the Red Sox, according to the Boston Globe.
The Herald reported yesterday that Boston was Snow's preferred destination. Jan. 1 - 1:37 pm et*

2006-01-01 20:32:51
143.   dzzrtRatt
142 Wasn't Snow going to retire if he couldn't play on the West Coast?

New Year's Resolution for 2006. Don't believe what anybody says.

2006-01-01 21:14:10
144.   D4P
Speaking of retiring, hasn't Dick Vermeil retired like 5 times? His last "retirement" is resulted in Mike Martz. Damn you, Dick.
2006-01-01 22:57:07
145.   Marty
I don't want JT on my team, but have a thought for him. His dad, Jack Snow is apparently having a rough time with a staph infection and is in critical condition. He was one of my favorite Rams despite the fact he went to Notre Dame. I hope he pulls through.
2006-01-02 00:19:39
146.   Strike4
Jim Healy fans can script Dick Vermeil's latest retirement news conference without tuning in: It's tough to retire and leave his players because he... he... loves those guys.
2006-01-02 07:51:58
147.   MartinBillingsley31

A couple threads about izturis from

One person said that izturis is the best dodger hitter on the team.

Another said izturis should be playing 2b as soon as he is ready, over kent because he will save a half a run with his defense.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if that board is filled with children, if any of those pro-izturis people are old enough to know better, then they are just (excuse my language) @$$inine.

2006-01-02 08:38:24
148.   D4P
Interesting that Vermeil's next retirement coincided with Martz' firing.
2006-01-02 09:04:43
149.   MartinBillingsley31

Here is another pro-izturis thread from

This person is saying trade kent at the deadline for a starting pitcher and give izturis 2b, "if we are doing good".

LOL, "is izturis another heart and soul guy"?

2006-01-02 09:59:38
150.   Xeifrank
149. Jim Tracy needs to give up his account on that forum and concentrate on managing the Pirates. :) vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-01-02 10:55:19
151.   27indigo

Sure is a bunch of Mikes fired on the same day.

2006-01-02 10:56:18
152.   27indigo

"Moving runners over with sacrifices is the way to go, remember small ball, its what they used to do before players began to hit home runs."


2006-01-02 11:26:29
153.   popup
Slow day for those who are not football fans. A few years ago I picked up a book called The Birth of a Fan written by Ron Firmite. He interviewed writers and other celebs (not necessarily baseball writers and baseball celebs) about what caused them to become baseball fans. It was an interesting book.

Thought it might be interesting to hear the stories of those who post here, and especially the proprietor of this site, Jon, about their earliest memories of becoming a Dodger fan. Maybe the stories could be collected into a thread called The Birth of a Dodger Fan.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-02 11:57:58
154.   Andrew Shimmin

147- Asinine does derive from the latin word for ass, but it's the donkey variety, not the anatomical. It's not profane and doesn't require apology or masking.

2006-01-02 13:06:06
155.   Steve
Asinine derives from the idea of Joe Randa, Preston Wilson, and Jim Tracy all in the same place at the same time. Pirate fans must be ecstatic.
2006-01-02 13:09:26
156.   D4P
What, no mention of Mike Edwards?
2006-01-02 13:15:08
157.   Steve
Tragedy tomorrow, comedy tonight.
2006-01-02 14:06:22
158.   Andrew Shimmin
157- Ah! Zero Mostel makes a reappearance.
2006-01-02 14:55:13
159.   Linkmeister
153 I have a copy of that book. I don't remember whether it was a gift or whether I bought it myself.

I moved to LA in 1959 when the Dodgers were in the WS. I was nine, which is a prime age for falling in love with baseball, and I did.

2006-01-02 15:24:13
160.   deburns
159 My experience was analogous to yours. Our family got the first TV in our little New Jersey town in 1947, just in time for that incredible WS. Al Gionfriddo, Bill Bevens and Cookie Lavagetto, and there was that other team as well. I was totally hooked at age 9. My brother took me to games at Ebbetts, the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium when it was really prejudiced in favor of LHB's. I thought that The Boys of Summer was written especially for me (not really, but you know what I mean).
2006-01-02 15:56:08
161.   popup
#160. deburns, I am totally envious. I wish I could have seen a game at Ebbets Field. I did get to see the Dodgers play at the Polo Grounds in 1962 and 1963.

#159. Link, I don't think the 59 Dodgers are as recognized as later Dodger teams. Sandy Koufax was on that team, but he was not really Sandy until later. Did you see any games in the Colisiem? While I wish I had seen a game at Ebbets Field, I can't say the same for the Colisiem.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-02 16:30:10
162.   willhite
I celebrated my 50th year as a Dodger fan last year. In 1954, at the age of 7 my folks to me to visit my uncle in Brooklyn. He was a huge Dodger fan and took me to a Dodger-Pirate double header. Dodgers won both games, I came home with a Dodger penant and a Pee Wee Reese button and I was hooked. Imagine my glee when the team that decided to move to L.A. in '58 was the Brooklyn Dodgers. My uncle came out to visit every year and we always took in a game or two.
2006-01-02 16:52:32
163.   deburns
My recollection of the 59 team, other than the WS against the White Sox,is mainly about Carl Furillo helping to win a game in the twilight of his career with a scratch single in the playoff against the Braves. I was still living in the East, so didn't see them in person. I didn't come West until late 74.
My memory of Ebbetts is a slugfest against the Reds where Kluszewski did damage to the Shaefer Beer scoreboard, and the Dodgers had to bring in the likes of Bud Podbeilan.
2006-01-02 17:27:08
164.   dzzrtRatt
As an 8-year-old in Stamford, Connecticut, I fell in love with the New York Mets in 1964, in part because they weren't the Yankees, and the rebel in me decided to identify with the anti-establishment team. But unlike many of their fans, I hated it when they lost, and mostly identified with their, uh, stars--Ron Hunt, Joe Christopher, Roy McMillan.

As a Met fan my biggest thrills were listening to the west coast games on my transistor radio long after I was supposed to be asleep. This led me to become a huge fan of Sandy Koufax and Juan Marichal, Maury Wills and Willie Mays. I probably heard the last reconstructed game ever played on the radio, a crucial Dodger/Giant game late in the season.

My family moved to California in 1968, and I stayed with the Mets for the next seven years or so--thrilling to the rise of the Tom Seaver team in 1969, the Tug McGraw team of 1973. I followed the Dodgers, but only casually and objectively.

The Dodgers finally got to me in 1977. That was such a memorable team. Not just the stars like Cey, Garvey and Smith, but also the role players like Manny Mota, Vic Davilillo and Lee Lacy. Lasorda's act was still fresh and entertaining; he was a great boost to baseball back then. I spent part of that summer painting, and I'd bring a radio with me to hear the games, and that's the year I also realized that Vin Scully was a miracle--a great storyteller, a baseball educator, a friend. I'd listened to him before, but '77 was the year I began to worship him.

1977: the year of Elvis Costello, Annie Hall and Vin Scully.

2006-01-02 18:25:13
165.   Linkmeister
161 I have a memory of sitting along the left field line in the Coliseum, looking at that fence, but I couldn't tell you who pitched.

I agree that '59 wasn't quite "The Dodgers" like the '60s and 70s teams were, but they were new to the town and so was I, so maybe there's some psychological thing going on there (nah, not really).

2006-01-02 18:27:55
166.   Linkmeister
164 You might have heard the last MLB game recreated, but Islanders games were still being done that way into the 70s.

Al Michaels may even have done a few when he broadcast them early on, but my memory is of Les Keiter doing PCL games from Portland, Salt Lake, Tacoma, and Albuquerque.

2006-01-02 19:00:43
167.   Michael Green
My mother was born in Brooklyn and raised in New Jersey, and moved to LA in 1956. Two years later, her Dodgers followed her.

When I was eight in 1973, I remember hearing a voice coming from a transistor radio. It had been on before, but I guess I'd never noticed it. The Dodgers were, I am pretty sure, playing the Reds. I always remembered the score of the game as 5-1 and I just looked on; if I am right, it was June 23 and Tommy John was the winning pitcher. That day, I heard Vin Scully--really HEARD him. He became my idol at that moment and remains so.

2006-01-02 20:05:43
168.   trainwreck
It's the save our Bluths episode of Arrested Development we have been waiting for.
2006-01-02 20:20:22
169.   D4P
Yet another great episode.
2006-01-02 20:23:36
170.   Telemachos
No mention here of Notre Dame getting curb-stomped in the Fiesta Bowl? :)
2006-01-02 20:37:20
171.   LAT
Not sure of the year, probably 1972 or 1973, I was at the Dodger game with my grandfather and brother. My grandfather had a full head of silvery hair that he always kept perfectly combed. My Grandfather would never wear a hat becasue it would mess up his hair. It was hat day and my brother an I were all hopped up on Tikki Punch. We snuck in the row behind my grandfather and put our hats on his head. We thought we were so funny. Well he was not a terribly patient man and he lost it on us. He yelled at us about behaving and watching the game. Knowing I couldn't say anything, couldn't get anything to eat and had to sit still, I began to actually watch the game. Joe Ferguson hit a home run to win the game and I was hooked.
2006-01-02 20:58:47
172.   LAT
In 2001, I was seven years old. At the start of second grade each of us was assigned a cubby to keep our lunch in and a hook to hang our coat on. My cubby and hook was number 15.

That year, my family went to a game during the first week of the season. Kind of bored, I asked my father which player wore number 15. He came to the plate and my father told me he was left handed and jewish--just like me. Three pitches latter my new favorite player hit the first home run I remember seeing. After that I started following the player who hit before and after my favorite player, although my dad never had a nice thing to say about the guy who hit before no. 15. Then I followed two players before and after him and so on until I knew the whole team. That was the season I became a baseball fan.

The Dodgers are still my favorite team but the Diamondbacks are a close second. I have to admit I was very mad at the Dodgers last year for trading him but at least my favorite player still comes to Dodger Stadium a lot.

LAT's daughter

2006-01-02 21:35:34
173.   overkill94
168 Admittedly I have only seen a handful of episodes, but I decided to tune in tonight for whatever reason. Some of the plot I was lost on, but it was still a pretty funny episode. I especially liked the HBO and Showtime references.
2006-01-02 21:36:08
174.   deburns
In the '50's, Dodger games were recreated on the Dodger Baseball Network, narrated by one Nat Albright. The hits were noted by a churchkey struck on a piece of wood, according to legend, and the crowd noise was a recording. When the ticker was late, Nat would recountfoul ball after foul ball. The theme song was an incredibly jazzed up "take me out to the ballgame," with a brilliant trumpet riff that I think Miles Davis would admire. I would prefer that song now to the hokey stuff that is played before the games now, as well as "Follow the Dodgers", which was played after every game at Ebbetts Field.
2006-01-02 21:40:27
175.   LAT
This has been a heck of a Sugar Bowl. That fake took some sack.
2006-01-02 21:41:11
176.   caseybarker
and the insight. Beavers!
2006-01-02 21:45:11
177.   D4P
Yeah. Most episodes allude heavily to previous episodes, so that new viewers miss much of the humor.
2006-01-02 21:49:43
178.   popup
deburns, do you remember Vin broadcasting in Brooklyn? I have heard some games he broadcast in 1957 on tape, but I have never heard him work with Red Barber. I know Connie Desmond was there at the time too, and I have heard Red and Connie broadcasting a Dodger game in 1950, but Vin was not on any of the three 1950 Brooklyn Dodger game I have heard on tape. I wonder how often Red and Connie let him get on the air in the early days.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-02 21:57:16
179.   popup
Link, thanks for the info about Hawaii broadcasters. I remember Les Keiter in Philadelphia in the early 60's broadcasting basketball games. I never heard him broadcast baseball. If I remember correctly he did college basketball. I remember listening to Al Micheals in the 60's broadcasting for the Reds and in the 70's broadcasting for the Giants. He was an excellent baseball broadcaster.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-02 23:06:20
180.   Xeifrank
I became a Dodger fan when they hired a fellow by the name of Jim Tracy to manage the team. I fell in love with the way he managed a team and the great leadership he provided. I had never seen that before in any professional sport. You can get a close look at how wise the man is by the way he conducts himself in a post-game interview. He always has something very interesting to say. He really knows how to evaluate his personnel, not always following stats to put out his lineup, but instead going with his gut feeling which is almost always right. I was deeply saddened when Jim Tracy was cut loose by the Dodgers, and now I have two favorite teams, the Dodgers and whatever team Jim Tracy is managing.

sArCAsM, Xei

2006-01-02 23:29:27
181.   Linkmeister
179 Sure. Keiter did some memorable fights from MSG, as well as NY Giants football and Knicks basketball. He's written a memoir:


He did local sports on one of the tv channels for quite a while, acquiring the nickname "The General."

2006-01-02 23:30:23
182.   Eric L
172 I was allegedly a grown up in '96 (19, in college, etc) and I still couldn't root against my favorite player even though his team was in a tight fight at the end of the season with the Dodgers.

I wanted the Dodgers to win when Fernando pitched against them (and they did on 9/19) but I also didn't like Fernando to lose.

2006-01-03 05:18:54
183.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I think LAT's daughter's story is the best. I always liked Shawn as a person, although I was a big supporter of that trade by DePo.

Despite the fact that I grew up in the San Gabriel valley (Alhambra, very close to Bob T's stomping grounds), I only became a Dodger fan in grad school, right after college. My best guy friends in grad school were big baseball guys (a Mets fans and a BoSox fan), who in a lot of ways taught me how to watch the game (I was more than anything else a Lakers fan as a kid during the great Showtime era, although I lost interest in sports in High School). Over time, I've become more interested in different aspects of the game, such as front-office management, trades, player evaluation, etc. And some of my academic interests actually have an odd concordance with the current seeming holy war in baseball between statheads and old school dudes.

Nevertheless, baseball for me is foremost both an entertaining distraction (albeit one I probably take too seriously to the point where it can produce far more anguish than entertainment) and a way for me to keep in touch with SoCal, despite the fact that I've basically lived in a sort-of self-imposed exile on the dreadful East Coast for my entire adult life, and will probably be here for several decades more at the very least.


2006-01-03 08:45:44
184.   Scanman33
WWSH-Were you an Alhambra Moor?
2006-01-03 09:10:13
185.   deburns
178 Stan: I did hear some games where Scully did some play-by-play with Barber & Desmond on WMGM (the "Call Letters of the Stars"). But he was just out of Fordham and didn't get a lot of air-time.
BTW, a very good friend of mine once taught at the University of Puget Sound, which he said was referred to as "pungent aroma".
2006-01-03 09:30:11
186.   D4P
I spent my first semester of college in 1992 at the University of Puget Sound. The phrase we used was "The Tacoma Aroma".
2006-01-03 09:46:15
187.   Jon Weisman
"How does Puget Sound?" - that was the slogan on the recruiting letter I got from them in '84 or '85.

New post up top.

2006-01-03 14:15:55
188.   popup
deburns and D4P, the air quality has gotten better. There was a copper smelter in Ruston that was closed 10 years or so ago that has helped make the air a bit easier to breathe around here.

It would be interesting to hear Vin when he first went on the air in 1950. I suspect he was a talented broadcaster from the very beginning of his career.

D4P, hope you had a chance to see some Triple A games at Cheney Stadium while you were in Tacoma.

Stan from Tacoma

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