You are much more attached to these players than I am.

Brett Tomko and Nomar coming "home" to play ... can one harness the potential which has always tantalized scouts and can the other stay healthy? Can Furcal elevate his game with maturity? Does Billy Mueller have one more .300 year left in him (which would really be amazing considering the park)? Which rookie will amaze first - Billingsley, Broxton, Kuo, Martin, Loney LaRoche, Guzman? Could Kenny Lofton actually become a good clubhouse guy? Who will be our coaches? Will Wilson Alvarez be offered a position in the organization? Will Tim Wallach be back? What about Rick Honeycutt?

This is going to be a fun Spring - I will be there in Vero!

2 - I think a lot of the answers are "no."

Including, perhaps, "Who will be our coaches?" I could see the Dodgers becoming a pioneering coachless team. Or, maybe this:

Bullpen coach: Sandy Alomar, Jr.
First-base coach: Hee-Seop Choi
Third-base coach: Olmedo Saenz
Bench coach: Jason Repko
Batting instructor: Cesar Izturis

2 I will be there as well; tentatively in Orlando to see LA/ATL on the 15th, then on to Vero Beach for the Fish, Mets and Gnats on the 16th, 17th and 18th.

On this day in 1973 - George Steinbrenner and a group of investors bought the New York Yankees for 10 million U.S. dollars.
Source: Wikipedia
Nice little investment. This might be a Bob question, but does anyone know which owner has owned his MLB team for the longest amount of time?
vr, Xei

I'm not sure who the longest-term owner is, but my guess is it's among these:

Yankees
Mets
Cardinals

I don't count the Braves since Turnet sold out to Time-Warner

The Great Blue Jays Makeover of 2005-06 continues:

http://tinyurl.com/eyh6t

...try not to celebrate too much :)

Well, I looked it up in Wikipedia and got this:

Yankees, Steinbrenner -- 1973
Phillies, Montgomery -- 1981
Cubs, Tribune -- 1981 (God love em)
White Sox, Reinsdorf -- 1981

Phillips will now have to barely get by with Canadian taxes on top of his salary.

5 Here is a nice little list to answer your question..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_principal_owners

The lack of announced coaches really bugs me.

I was reading the "Best of.." the other day and was realizing that since 1993, the Dodgers have not really faired that well in what, to me, seems to be an easier division. (1995, and 2004 being the only division champs, 1996 wildcard)

Probably old news. But, hey, I'm slow.

Hi Marty!

So when can I try to turn this thread into "Orange Bowl Thoughts"?

Great post. Very thorough, although i agree with 1

Looks like Marty beat me to it. Wilpon has been a co-owner of the Mets since 1980 but the list doesn't reflect that (he owned the team with Nelson Doubleday and bought him out in 2002).

According to Honest Wagner pirates blog, Tracy is about to get Burnitz for two years, 12 million. Ouch!

12 You can start anytime. I plan on hijacking it tomorrow for Rose Bowl thoughts...

Sorry for nitpicking, but your update assumes that Phillips has actually had it rolling. =)

I predict Furcal (or a healthy Drew) to be my 06 favorite. There's something likable about a guy who can successfully steal a base.

11 - Thanks for reading!

The NL West actually has been plenty tough in many of those years.

2004: 3 teams with 87-93 wins
2002: 3 teams with 92-98 wins
2001: 3 teams with 86-92 wins
2000: 4 teams with 82-97 wins
1997: 3 teams with 83-90 wins, fourth team with 76
1996: 3 teams with 83-91 wins

17. There's something likable about a guy who can successfully steal a base.

Hmm, must be the "rooting for the little guys" aspect of fandom. Because many of the premier base-stealers who jump to mind seemed to be jerks. Rickey is of course the leader in both categories. Lopes wasn't much fun. Morgan (well, nowadays, anyway). Coleman.

They're not all cuddly like Dave Roberts.

I'll be rooting hardest for Drew, Choi (of course, but probably in vain), and Navarro among the hitters. And all the pitchers will share my affections equally. 'Cept maybe Odalis, who has to earn his way back in. Kuo will get extra positive vibes.

1, 13 - Just because I mentioned a player up top doesn't mean I'm attached to them.

Oh, but I left Drew out - I need to get him up there.

Before you turn it into Orange Bowl Thoughts, spare a thought for that fake punt at the close of the Sugar Bowl. I turned that game off when it was 28-0 WVU. The Dawgs deserve a little credit for making a game of it, and the WVU coach deserves a lot for that gutsy fake.

Talking about Dave Roberts and people's fondness for players like him makes this NYT piece apropos:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/03/science/03cute.html?8dpc

How can you forget Yhency? I mean, the guy's got his own T-Shirts and everything.

It'll be interesting to see if he can pull himself together, or if he slides to make way for Broxton or Sanchez. And that's not even getting into the issues with lefties.

24 - Ugh, you're right ... yeah, him too.

Great post Jon. The player I'm most excited about watching is one of the newcomers and that is Nomar. I've soured on him in recent years but back when he was part of the trinity he was my favorite ballplayer and I'm hoping he can reclaim his spot amoung the elite even as I know that is improbable. I just wish he was going to try it at 3b instead of 1st.
Edwin Jackson is also going to get a lot of support from me because of the reason you stated above. Jason Repko because when I'm at the game I do like scrappy. Can't wait to see the Furcal gun in action at DS. Also can't wait to see which physical part of Drew breaks down 1st. The surgically repaired knee, the surgically repaired shoulder, the surgically repaired wrist, the broken wrist or something altogether new. Or will all of the past surgeries correct a number of problems that were effecting his productivity and allow him to knock the snot out of the ball all year and reach a level he's never seen before which would mean an MVP type of season. Any of the above is possible or he just might give us his normal above average production for 120 games.
Also rooting for Delwyn Young for some reason I can't explain. Sometimes I just get attached to certain prospects. Last year it was Aybar and this year it is Young.

Also, I'll be anxiously awaiting Brad Penny's 2006 season. Will he provide a healthy full year to the Dodgers, have another puzzling injury, capitalize on his possible #1 starter status and become a dependable (if not dominant) front of the rotation starter? I remain optimistic.

If there are no more moves made, here is what I have for the 25 man roster.
I'm basing this on knowledge of who is out of options and who is not, and basing it on ned's statements.
Ned's statements are "I'd like to have 2 lefties in the pen", "I'd like to have houlton in the pen as a swingman".
Also I'll put 11 pitchers on the list and 13 position players on the list and I'll keep 1 position player at the end and 1 pitcher at the end that will compete for the 25th spot on the team.
Lineup
Furcall
Lofton
Drew
Kent
Nomar
Cruz
Mueller
Navarro

Bench
Alomar
Seanz
Robles
Ledee
Repko temporary till werth gets back, then repko goes to the minors

Starting pitching
Penny
Lowe
Perez
Tomko
Competition billingsley/jackson, loser goes to minors

Bullpen
Gagne
Brazo
Sanchez
Houlton
Wunsch
Kuo

Last spot is a competition between broxton and choi, with longshots to osoria and schmoll.

From what I've heard aybar has option(s) and robles doesn't, don't quote me tho, and if I'm wrong then the best man wins the job and the other goes to the minors.
Choi,repko,broxton,osoria,schmoll,jackson,billingsley all have option(s).
And ned's statement that "i'd like to have jackson and billingsley start the season in the minors tells me that neither will win a bullpen spot if broxton,osoria,schmoll all flop in spring training along with choi flopping.

And again this is if there are no more moves made.

In my opinion the team is going to be weak in power and starting pitching, and the bullpen could be better if ned didn't have a fascination with lefties and a fascination with houlton as a swingman (broxton + osoria > houlton + wunsch + kuo).

Does anyone think the 25 man roster is going to be different than what i've laid out, if there are no more moves made?

I think Penny is the only "power pitcher" maybe Tomko, I don't know much about him.

What ever happened to getting Daisuke Matsuzaka? :-)

I'm really excited for the return of "Game Over" Gagne. I can hear that G'N'R guitar chords now. I feel Kent/Drew will be solid in the heart of the lineup and like many of you hope to see Choi perform well in whatever role he is given. I'm very curious about Nomar. My expectations are probably higher than realistic. I am rooting loudly for Navarro. I think Repko should make the team as a late inning PH/PR.

What I don't quite understand is how one gets a sense of excitement about young players who haven't been on the Major League roster yet. I saw Loney in a spring training game on TV last year, but hadn't seen much of Billingsley or Guzman, and only saw Broxton give up runs.

When do y'all (or especially Jon) get the chance to see 'em?

(I did get instantly excited about Antonio Perez when I saw him get four hits in a May game against the Jints. Homered, singled to left, singled to right, singled up the middle... they just couldn't get him out.)

Tomko had a nice second half last year. At least there is something to be hopeful about... :-) (I like to start out in Denial)

low 90s fastball, so no special "power"

Also, I got a laugh at the Tracy is 6'3" 205 bit in the book, have to wonder about Little.

For the record, I'm on the other side of the curve now, 6'1" 208 and rising.

ESPN has its list of MLB starting line-ups for 2006. Re-opening our can of worms, there are a lot of teams that could be improved by having HSC in the starting line-up.

Looking at his SCOUTING REPORT, scouts still really seemed to like him after the 2004 season. Check out the scouting assessment of his defense.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=6622

31
I start following the careers right after they are drafted so by the time they hit AAA I've usually been following them at least 4 years. I go to the Arizona Fall league to follow the Dodgers prospects and spring training in Arizona to follow the Angel prospects. Last year I was able to use the internet thanks to Nate's link and was able to catch quite a few of the AA club games on streaming video. This year with the influx of the AA club headed to AAA I plan to make at least two trips to Vegas. Also my brother is in the process of moving to Huntsville so I can visit him this summer when the Jacksonville team visits the Huntsville team and catch the series.

34 - Wow.

31 - Most of them, I've never seen. But I hadn't seen much of my kids before they were born, and I was excited about them. Sometimes, the idea is enough to get you excited about people you've been hearing about for a while.

28
I think your roster is just about right except I expect Kuo will start the season in the minors because he needs to get lots of innings since he's missed so much development time. Would not surprise me to see him back in the rotation as they build his arm strength/stamina back up. Still sounds like Ned is not happy with Bill/EJ fighting for the 5th spot and will make one final deal for a 5th starter so I'm expecting Bill/EJ to both be in AAA or AA.
Think Choi will be the last roster spot and Osorio makes the team as the 6th reliever unless they trade either Yhancy or Sanchez opening up a spot for Broxton. They will not put Broxton on the roster if they have Yhancy and Sanchez as he would not get the work he needs to stay sharp. JMO

18 Not to mention that the West represented the NL in the World Series in 2002, 2001, and 1998. It's a pretty recent development that the West is a weak division. The teams are largely on the high-income side of the equation, so count on this being a blip. It's been a tough division before, and I expect it to be so again soon.

33 "there are a lot of teams that could be improved by having HSC in the starting line-up."

Among those teams would be the Dodgers.

I will be pulling for EJ first and then for Nomaaah (I just like saying his name with a thick Boston accent). EJ deserves a fair shot where he is used regularly and when he is healthy. Nomar would be fun to watch if he can stay healthy. Plus it will be mildly interesting to have Mrs. Nomar around.

BTW, if you get HBO you should watch that special on the Women's World Cup Team. It really was quite a run.

Jon is pleased with his daughter, but his son's inability to hit curve balls has him profoundly displeased.

I think his son has trouble with difficult arm angles.

LAT, she's no Mrs. Lima....

For some reason I've attached myself to Russell Martin's wagon and am looking forward to seeing him in ST and possibly with the big club sometime this year.

41 - After 17 months, he still has lefty potential.

43. My 18 month old daughter got a t-ball toy for Xmas. She has fun hitting the ball, but mostly with one of her dolls or the wrong end of the small plastic bat. I'm not sure if she is looking forward to the 2006 season or not, if I am translating her scribblings in her Sesame Street coloring book correctly, she is still a little confused about the Depodesta firing.
vr, Xei

Reviewing an old 2003 top 10 prospect list for each team. HSC was the Cubs #1 prospect according to the old list I have. Here is what it says about him... Choi is one of the game's elite offensive prospects, and he's finally ready to take over as the Cubs' starting first baseman. The South Korean slugger should contend for Rookie of the Year honors, though he might not be able to put up the necessary numbers if manager Dusty Baker decides to use Eric Karros in place of the left-handed-hitting Choi against southpaws. Karros' presence will make Choi a risky pick in fantasy leagues, but I'm extremely confident in Choi as a prospect. He should be one of the league's top first basemen by 2005...

Dodgers list looked like this...
1) James Loney, 2) Joe Thurston, 3) Chin-Feng Chen, 4) Joel Guzman, 5) Jonathan Figueroa, 6) Joel Hanrahan, 7) Koyie Hill, 8) Victor Diaz, 9) Reggie Abercrombie, 10) Andy Brown

vr, Xei

Sounds like Jon's got a LOOGY on his hands. But then again, at 17 months there's probably a lot of loogies around.

My two-year old is already over the hill. He had a sweet little lefty swing off of his t-ball set, but now spends all of his time singing the old Batman theme song and accusing his younger brother of being the Joker.

I actually hope Houlton wins the 5th spot, pitches great and is one of the teams most underated pitchers in 2006. I want him to be the Bob Tewksberry of the Dodgers over the next few years.

18 and 38

Yes to both of those. I was mainly thinking of Atlanta and Houston. But yeah, the west was no slouch either I guess.

Atlanta to WS in 95,96,99 Houston in 2005.

Central Div Champs:
1995: Cincinnati Reds
1996: St. Louis Cardinals
1997: Houston Astros
1998: Houston Astros
1999: Houston Astros
2000: St. Louis Cardinals
2001: Houston Astros†
2002: St. Louis Cardinals
2003: Chicago Cubs
2004: St. Louis Cardinals
2005: St. Louis Cardinals

NL East Div Champs: 95-05 Atlanta (wow!)

Atlanta wins WS in 95

Gotta go! Love this place.

I to am looking forward to the prospects coming up more than what we do this season. If we win this season it will just be gravy for me. I am looking forward to Edwin first and foremost. I want him to get his chance and show everyone why he was so highly regarded. He is the only dodger, who's jersey I have and I believe in him and I can not wait till he makes everyone jump back on his bandwagon. After him I want to see the returns of Drew and Gagne from injury. Mostly Drew as he is the type of hitter I love to watch. As for the new guys I am also looking forward to seeing Nomar. He has the most potential of any of these guys and I want to see him go back to being Nomar before all the injuries hit him.

er... above numbers from both www.baseball-reference.com and ubiquitous wikipedia, I can only vouch that they seem correct from memory, and author wishes any further accusations on character of teams or divisions, be verified by another source. :-)

i have to say that edwin jackson is going to be the dodger i am rooting for the hardest.

also, for tonight, paul posluszny is going to crush the FSU offense.

What is the current take on Weaver remaining with the team?

I am hearing from a lot of places...Artest to the Warriors. Artest and Foster for Murphy and Pietrus.

I was watching Around the Horn earlier and Plaschke said it was time for the Packers to move on without Favre because he was an average QB at best now.

Can you imagine the crapstorm he would stir up if the Dodgers cut ties with a similar type of player?

55 - The interesting part of what you say is that no one in recent Dodger history has been what Favre was to the Packers - yet so many people went nuts over lesser departures.

Yeah watch the minor rumblings when we get rid of Izturis because anything Colletti does is fine.

56 Yeah, I couldn't even think of someone on the Dodgers to compare him to. The closest thing I was able to come up with was Karros and I wasn't going to write that for obvious reasons.

I also thought the comment was interesting because of the LoDuca thing. Favre has everything (heart and soul, face of the franchise, etc) that Plascke thought was so great about LoDuca. Not only that, Favre actually was a pretty good player at one point in his career.

I am rooting for Gagne above everyone else to regain his previous form. Because when he's on top of his game there is no one like him.

Others on my list: Drew, Broxton, Nomah.

I can go either way with the HSC Experiment (TM), but want some kind of immediate closure one way or the other.

I'm rooting for Mueller in 2006. I predict his home/road splits will be wide (a shrinking violet at home, a "he double down the line to drive in 2" machine on the road), but his defense will be above avarage and will force either JtD or LaRoche to really step it up and take the 3rd baseman position in 2007.

56. Well, I think Garvey would be the closest comparison. Statistically, no. But in terms of decline after long, glorious (if seriously overhyped) performance, the Dodgers letting Garv go caused similar angst. He still had a few decent years in him. But there was no Plaschke at the time.

Favre will not play for another team, though, at least not next season. If he goes, it'll be to retire, in which case the team can look blameless.

I'm a lifetime Packer fan. Love Favre. Still, I'm somewhat frightened by the Cult of Brett in Green Bay (30-ft murals of the guy on the sides of houses and barns - he'd beat Jesus in a popularity contest, in a Catholic bastion). ANd as a Cal Alum (Uh, Go Bears!) I'm anxious to see Aaron Rodgers take over. If not next year, then the year after. OF course, if Colletti were running the Packers, he bring in Vinnie Testaverde at $10M/2yrs to keep Rodgers clipboarded.

Some people I've read think the Packers will draft Leinert and dump Rodgers. I guess there is a faction in Green Bay that think Rodgers is not up to it.

56. Probably the best analogy (though not recent), would be if the Dodgers would have forced Jackie Robinson into retirment by trading him to the G-Men.

Could you imagine!?

Oh, wait, that happened. Never mind.

Rodgers is better than Leinart. Completely outplayed Matty the Magnificent in their one head-to-head. And that's all I'll say about that.

But I think that Marty and I are incapable of being objective on this question, so we'll just agree that I'm right and move on.

Preston Wilson, one year 4 million dollars or Kenny Lofton, one year at 3.75 million?

Because we have Furcal and Mueller who could have batted 2nd, I would have went with Preston as at least there is some power there. Thoughts?

61
Are you from Wisconsin? My Mom/Dad were born in Appleton and even though I've never spent more then two weeks in Wisconsin at a time the Packer DNA has been part of me since I was born. I was raised on Hornung/Starr/Taylor and my first memory of any sporting event was watching a football game in black/white between the Pack/Bears.

65
Preston's knee's are in bad shape and we couldn't afford to buy an outfielder who may not be able to play. Lofton is old but he has an excellent health history.

Jon's son is a 5-tool toddler.

He can:
1) Toddle
2) Crawl
3) Cry
4) Cry with power
5) Look cute

The scouts are drooling over him. Meanwhile Jon's son still has to use a bib because he drools over the scouts.

65. lofton is a better hitter and probably a better fielder than Wilson, I dont think you go shopping for talent by trying to fill specific spots in the lineup, but by trying to get the best player and/or best value for the position.

Lofton can still play CF, Wilson can't/shouldn't.

64 I didn't mean to imply that I subscribed to the idea that GB should draft Lienart. Just reporting it :). I have some doubts about Leinart in the NFL, but I did about Carson Palmer too, and he's doing fine.

I think I've managed to spell Matt Leinart/Lienart/Leinert/Lienert every possible way now.

68 - LOL.

Actually, my son has become an expert at running in circles in a counter-clockwise direction, which I think is key.

He also has a celebratory dance.

However, he does not know enough English to satisfy reporters looking for a good quote. Whereas my daughter is practically as quoteworthy as a younger Muhammad Ali. So I think I know whom the local press would endorse.

Jon,

As a new member of this forum I cannot find the appropriate words to express the joy I receive daily in reading your posts and comments from other members of the community. I lived in CA 25yrs ago and became a Dodger, Laker, USC and Aztec fan back then. I live in FL now and will be a regular at Vero Beach. If anyone cares I'd be happy to share pics from spring training. I don't have the baseball knowledge that most of you seem to have - but I enjoy the banter none the less.

Thanks - Moody

The Packers will not draft Leinart no need in even talking about it, but I really question how good Rodgers is. Tedford knows how to work with quarterbacks, but they really have problems in the NFL and there is nothing about Rodgers that makes me think he is going to be different. He can be an a decent qb, but will not be anything special in my opinion.

Matt Cassell will be better than both of them. ;-)

Actually I wouldn't laugh about the part about Matt Cassell being better.

The Patriots have shown recently that they don't draft people on a whim.

74- Welcome aboard! I'd love to see your photos of the springily training Dodgers. Try to get close-ups of Choi--he's so dreamy.

I guess this didn't become Orange Bowl thoughts. The expected rout of Florida State is not transpiring.

Bob -- agreed, I just don't know that we have much of a basis to judge yet.

TINSAAQBP

Of course, the Pack could draft Mike Robinson, but he is even more aggravating to watch than Favre is.

MUCH better RB though.

66 Nope, Molokai. I'm the same as you. Both parents from Milwaukee. I don't remember the 60s teams firsthand, but was forced to learn all about them anyway, as Dad and I suffered through the 70s version (yuck).

Rodgers is a lot more talented than Kyle Boller (who has shown flashes in the few games in which he's had actual real-live receivers). Rodgers is extremely accurate, and has a quick release. Boller was horrible for 3 years at Cal, until Tedford turned him around and made him a lot of money, but I never really believed he was for real. We'll see. I just have higher expectations for Rodgers.

83 Oops, should have said "both parents from Milwaukee, but I only ever visited, never lived there myself."

I did make it to Lambeau Field a couple of years ago. A friend is (was?) Dick Vermeil's assistant, and she got me Chiefs' coaches tix (and a field pass) for a game a couple Octobers ago. Fantastic. You ain't lived til you've had bratwurst pizza. Buy two slices and get a 20% off coupon for an angioplasty.

Rodgers also faced Leinart twice (2003, 2004). Rodgers had to leave the game in 2003 because of an injury and Reggie Robertson finished up.

Not to get too off topic but I guess Estes is going to the Pads and we are locking into David Wells and re-signing Weaver. Does this mean we dont have a 1st Rd Pick in next years amateur draft?

Shawn Estes Story:
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060103&content_id=1290947&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

David Wells/Jeff Weaver Story:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AvaBJeNdDeFzFAEh_F0_kPoRvLYF?slug=citadel-2_485081_283&prov=citadel&type=story

For those of us used to watching Pac-10 football, this is an ugly game.

87 - Used to watching PSU football? This is a typical game. Just waiting for MRob to remember he actually has WRs who can catch the ball this year...

Because of their poor 2005 record, the Dodgers are guaranteed a first round pick in this year's draft.

The article you cite on Wells/Weaver has no weight at all.

88 Not used to seeing 3-and-outs on pretty much every series. And not used to seeing FSU make an important field goal.

Every story about David Wells has weight.

91 - Tooshay

90 - That missed PAT is looking bigger and bigger the later this game goes...

I like how the announcers are openly rooting for FSU though. Makes it feel even more like an Eagles game.

93

I'm certain Florida State fans think that the announcers are rooting for Penn State.

Florida State got caught in a line change there.

Works for me, JoePA had been running that play all season until tonight!

OUR WRs HAVE SPEED. USE IT!!!!!

All up to Kevin Kelly. Great.

--fingers crossed--

So if Penn State hits this field goal, they'll get to have a 5 in their line score.

Such things amuse me.

Instead Penn State will have a 2 in their line score.

HAHAHA, how awesome is this?? Everybody, quick, before the JoePa Must GO! bandwagon fills back up again!

98 - Bob, you really need to dig up our loss to Ohio State last season.

These teams could play overtime all night.

101 - Raise your hand if you watched the 18 inning Braves/Astros also!

I say this is over in one overtime. It's pretty hard to go past three now because of the manadtory 2-point rule.

98
Bob - How many pro and/or college football games have ended with the score 5-4? Or 3-2?

Bob et al, do you agree that Anwar Phillips is a MUCH better CB than either Lowry or Zemaitis?

I doubt a pro game has ever finished 5-4 or 3-2. College games probably have but that would have been a long time ago when TDs were just worth 5 and safeties were more common.

There was that scoreless tie between Oregon and Oregon State in 1983.

Shows what I know about predicting how long this game would go.

Can the Bears lend us back Robby Gould for the next, oh, one overtime or so?

89. That opening paragraph on the wild west is pure drivel. Moreover, having signed Tomko, why would the Dodgers be looking at Weaver and Wells. Is Ned going for a six man rotation? For the right price I would like to have Weaver but I don't want Wells, especially not for prospects.

Memo to Weaver:

Jeff, while your agent purportedly never gives a hometown discount, you should tell him to sit down in this case. Do you want to chase the money and have another NY experience? You are a head case, you can't pitch just anywhere. You can pitch here. Don't lose sight of what's important.

In 1905, Michigan won its first 12 games and then lost its 13th game of the season to Chicago, 2-0.

In 1895, USC and Caltech played a 4-4 tie.

What if there was a football game and no one wanted to win?

In 1902 USC lost to Santa Ana High, 5-2.

Bob: Wasn't there a Cleveland NY Giants playoff game a long time ago on a frozen field where the only scores were FG's and safeties? I can't remember the score, but wasn't it something like 8-5?

OK Bob, 1896, Oregon 2 - Oregon AC 0. The Civil War is LowScoresRUs.

So Jon feels part of the game.
In 1900 Stanford beat Cal 5-0. Stanford was coached by Fielding "Hurry Up" Yost, who would leave for Michigan the next year.
In 1901 Cal beat Stanford 2-0. However Stanford got invited to what was the first Rose Bowl game against Michigan, coached by Yost. Michigan won 49-0.

In 1970 Dallas beat Detroit 5-0 in a playoff game.

So, a number of teams have scored 5. Any 4s out there?

Somebody loan these teams a kicker.

I'm inclined to think that no NFL team has finished with 4. If so, it would have been in the very early days of the league. But the NFL didn't get started until the 1920s and there were far less screwy things go on by then.

Amazingly, I don't think the NFL has linescores for all of its games.

Not a big fan of the college football overtime rules. Why not play sudden death, especially in bowl games. Would hate to see the Natl title game go this route.
vr, Xei

I once predicted in the Daily News that a high school team would score 4 points in a game, and the coach got angry. That season, another team did score 4 points in a game.

Yay, I can go to bed. And no BCS controversy this year -- Penn State won't be making any claims to a championship after that debacle of a win.

121

Then you can be the guy who tells a team why they lost the national championship without ever getting a chance to touch the ball on offense in overtime.

FINALLY!!

PSU scored 4 in a loss to OSU last fall. I was there, along with about 109,000 other witnesses.

124. They could always play some defense??
vr, Xei

There just aren't any overtime systems for football that are fair. There's always some flaw.

They could have used the old Costello tiebreaker system which used first downs inside the 20 in the fourth quarter as a tiebreaker.

If that were in place, Penn State would have won with 2 first downs to none for Florida State.

but would that first down PSU got off of a penalty have counted for PSU...or Fla?

Actually Penn State got 3 first downs inside the FSU 20 in the fourth quarter.

And did not score.

127. I get your point, but I don't think you should change the rules of the game just because you are in overtime. When you get the ball you are already in field goal range (well, FG range for anybody but these two teams). Womens softball starts extra innings with a runner on second base. Soccer does have two non sudden death periods, so that's not too bad before they use penalty kicks, which I'm no fan of. I think the college OT system is too much of a gimick, especially when teams are scoring as many points in overtime as they are during the regular part of the game. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but give me my sudden death OT. vr, Xei

Good news! 12 of the 13 miners were found alive.

130. I couldnt disagree with you more concerning the college football overtime system, I think its the most exciting overtime system in sports. The NFL's system just seems unfair and determined in large part by a coin flip.

Well that is good news regarding us keeping our 1st Rd Pick if we do re-sign Weaver. I was just posting a link to it, I never said it carried any validity but I thought it was interesting considering we already have 4 SP's and Houlton, Billingsley, and E-Jax vying for the 5th spot.

Oh and Jose Lima says he and the Pads agreed to a $1.7M one year deal.
Source: www.rotoworld.com

131 - As we're all learning this morning, that was a tragic miscommunication.

And now rotoworld is reporting the Dodgers and Mets have all but finalized a trade of Duaner Sanchez for Jae Seo and is to be announced by the end of the week.

135
If true Seo would make a fine 5th starter giving us around 4.00 - 4.25 ERA for the price of an inconsistent setup man. I'd rather up the ante and pickup Heilman instead who I think is going to continue his 2nd half breakout.

132
Always thought the College overtime system was the best.

Man that was an ugly Orange Bowl. What a waste of time.

104,

In 2004 Iowa beat Penn State 6-4 at Happy Valley. An ugly game for sure, unless you're an Iowa fan, which I am.

One of the Penn State safeties came when Iowa took an intentional safety when punting out of their own end zone late in the game.