Its up to a strong field manager to allocate playing time. I dont believe the presence of Piazza would have a 'disruptive' effect on assigned roles for the team...

Ideally, I'd want the 14 best position players on the roster that I could find. Competition makes everyone better. Lack of competition leads to complacency IMO.

Piazza would need no 'assurance' of playing time. At least, even if he got some type of 'assurance' that he'd play from the GM, the field manager can always go back on that and remove him from the lineup. What is Piazza going to do? Quit?

I dont believe in clubhouse chemistry, so even if Piazza copped a bad attitude in the clubhouse bc of lack of playing time, who really cares? I'd still rather have him back up catching while being upset, than friendly go lucky Sandy Alomar Jr whom has no desire to start.

As for how Piazza left the Dodgers, I liked the trade then. Gary Sheffield was a great player.

Why does Mike stay in the National League and allow his magnificent hitting to be drained off by punishing himself catching? He should've gone to a DH role now, if not five years ago. Maybe it's the Eric Liddell syndrome, his strength in hitting somehow comes from his catching and they can't be separated.

I'm with Jon on this one. Even Piazza would have come in willing to be a part-time backup, the press would not have let up, the first time Navarro hit a slump. It would have been a distraction even without any ill will from Piazza. And even if you're right, oldbear, that this would not have affected the play on the field, I'm sure glad I won't have to sit through it every day for 6 months.

That said, I wish the Angels had grabbed him. Maybe he didn't want to be a DH, but that's the best role for him now. Catch 2 games a week and DH for 3-4 more. Oh well. Maybe next year. It's only a 1-yr deal, and I wouldn't even be surprised to see him traded at the deadline if the Padres aren't in it.

2. Its similar to Jeff Kent not wanting to move off 2nd base. Kent/Piazza are going to the Hall of Fame bc of their unusual hitting prowess at offense-less positions. Piazza still wants to pad his hitting stats as a catcher, the same way Kent wants to pad his hitting stats as a 2nd basemen.

I predict Kent will retire a 2nd basemen. Same with Piazza.

3-
I think Jon's argument would also have applied to the Angels in the respect that they have a rookie and career backup at catcher and the presence of Piazza could sparked a debate at the position and also there is no guarantee that he would have settled to be the DH.
That said, with the signings of Thomas and Piazza, it does appear that the Angels will not have any upgrade at DH going into 2006.

[4] piazza the padre padding at petco? pshaw.

So it doesn't surprise me that the Dodgers passed up the opportunity to sign Piazza for Rafael Furcal's tip money, nor does it upset me.

Now THAT is some good writing. (We also know that Jon is a 15% tipper. OK, 15.4%!)

4 - I predict Kent will retire a 2nd basemen. Same with Piazza.

Predicting a Biggio-esque move for Piazza this late in his career. Now that's guts! :-)

Right or wrong it would be fun to see Piazza back with Tommy & the Dodgers

When I saw Piazza in the minors I said to a friend of mine who was with me at the time, "If I was Fred Claire I would sign Piazza, Roger Cedeno and Raul Modesi to 15 year contracts and that would be my starting outfield for the Dodgers." I missed on Cedeno, I sort of missed on Mondesi, and I think I was right on about Piazza.

The Dodgers need to get younger and better defensively. Piazza would not help on either count.

Stan from Tacoma

4
I think Piazza just loves to catch. He is taking a job where he knows he can beat out the incumbent. He's already the greatest hitting catcher in history and sure fire HOF catcher so he doesn't need to pad his stats at the position. Seems to me that Piazza is just doing what he loves to do and that is catch? He's a NL player and not interested in the gimmicky AL. My hat is off to him for remaining in the real league and still wanting to be a real baseball player.

Jon could be right that we don't need Piazza but if July comes around and Navarro has regressed and Martin is not quite ready and Alomar is Alomar which means he's on the DL and Piazza is doing a 275/350/450 line for SD we might regret not paying a higher tip for his services. The Padres are our strongest competition and we just let them upgrade at their weakest position for a pittance.

Great post Jon. You pretty much captured my sentiments. One thing to nitpick, though. I'm not so sure the Dodgers have made a concious decision not to create position battles. I mean, look at first base, or SS/2B when Izturis comes back. Personally, I would have preferrd a Piazza signing to the Garciapara deal.

Piazza's staying in the NL surprises me, too. I've seen nothing from him the last two years to show me he can be an effective presence behind the plate, and I'm not sure he can still hit much either - but maybe the latter will pick up again if he feels healthy enough.

The Padres were more desperate for help there than the Dodgers, so it's not a big surprise they took a flyer on Piazza. This is the team that traded talented 2B Mark Loretta for Doug Mirabelli.

As for
11
You think the Padres have a stronger roster than the Giants? (Who, granted, have plenty of questions of their own, but so does LA.) I sure don't.

At any rate, I like Piazza and I'm with Jon, I've always been irked at how they let him go way back when, much more than I am at passing him up now.

C

1 - "Its up to a strong field manager to allocate playing time"

Absolutely - I'm just not sure where Little would come down on this issue.

3 - Agree.

6/7/8 - LOL trifecta

11 - Agree with the first paragraph wholeheartedly. Second paragraph is certainly possible, though I am a bit more wary of the Giants than the Padres.

12 - There are/will be no battles at 1B, 2B or SS, now or in July. Garciaparra, Kent and Furcal will hold those jobs unless they get hurt or completely collapse.

The Padres-Mets games will be battles of Beloved Italian-American Former Dodger Catchers Traded To Florida Despite Extreme Public Protest Nights.

Every fan 14 and under will receive a complimentary Gary Sheffield or Brad Penny bobblehead doll that only moves its head from side to side in a disapproving manner.

11 From the last thread, I'm really sorry to hear about your dog. I've got two who have grown very attached to each other. They're young, so hopefully I don't have to go through losing them for some years.

BTW, I'll always think 'Molokai' when I see your posts :)

In the San Diego Union-Tribune story about Piazza, Towers and Bochy envision a lineup that goes like this:
Roberts
Klesko
Giles
Piazza
Castilla
Cameron
With Khalil Greene and the second baseman taking the last two spots.

16 Very sorry to hear about the loss of the dog. We lost our dog July 4th, 2004 after 12 years...I was fetching her with the frisbee at 3pm and at 3:30 she suddenly can't control her back legs. Hmmm. At the emergency vets we find out she has massive internal bleeding from a ruptured tumor attached to the spleen or heart (called hemangiosarcoma). By 8pm we're in the backyard burying her, can't see for the tears. The good news is she had exactly 4 hours of decline and suffering in her life, and that was that.

I thought we'd never get another dog. Yet here we are today with a shepard-golden-chow mix (AKA "Carolina Special") named Izzy (no, not for our ex-shortstop but for a weird, dumb uncle) and he is a joy.

Piazza can still play. Not much of a catcher but a good stick. Spring training would have taken care of itself and the so-called lack of peace he might have brought with him. I'm with you Jon, I'm still not over how we lost him in the first place. I still believe Piazza can play and I want to make sure he finished his career where it started. I'm still holding out that if he indeed goes into the HOF that he goes in as a Dodger. They gave him his start and taught him all that he knows.

No to Piazza. Better to leave the past burried than to resurrect a Jordan-like-Wizards-"What if he can still play" replay.

I don't care if he'd be better than Alomar; I believe he would be a distraction.

"Chemistry matters." - Albert Einstein.

Toy Cannon: my condolences as well for your loss. We lost our two golden retrievers to cancer within a year of each other. Their nobility in the face of a very poor quality of life was wonderful to behold, as sad as it was.
Don

I haven't replied to the dog messages, but I do want to share my condolences. We had five dogs over the course of my childhood, and four died young (before the age of 6). Two killed by coyotes, two because of congenital problems. It was very hard for this kid to take. I wish it got easier as an adult, but apparently not.

22 - No, I don't think it does get easier. In fact, it may be harder as an adult for the very reason deburns points out in 21. I lost my golden retriever mix to diabetes this past March. I took her in to the vets and held her as they, well, you know...

The worse part for me was that she started having "accidents" in the house which were totally out of character; since she initially showed no other signs of being ill I would punish her. She took the punishment as if she was really doing something wrong. I felt horrible about this for quite sometime.

My kids took it the whole thing pretty well in stride. I'm not sure they grasped the gravity/finality of the situation. We have another wonderful dog, so their biggest concern was getting a new "buddy" for him (which we have not). It is only now that there are times at night when my daughter will be teary and I'll ask what is wrong and she'll say "I miss Lucy".

My condolences as well Molokai/Toy Cannon.

I did not realize that you had changed your handle Molokai, and now I know why. My heartfelt condolences. I had to put down my friend of 15 years last year. I had to hold her still and watch the lights go out of her eyes. That's so depressing. We should really change the subject...

OK I'll change the topic.

So I think Danys Baez is a fine addition to the Dodgers bullpen!

And Hee-Seop Choi has a slow bat!

(scurries off)

We got the best of Piazza, so I don't mind passing on him now. I'm looking forward to seeing Navarro for a whole year, and Martin in ST and the second half of the season. Martin really impressed me at last year's ST.

25 Thanks Bob. I was having the flashback at the vet's office as they put the dog down.

So how's the Prius?

Also, whither Hee-Seop?? Is he going to play for the Dodgers this year, or is he the 26th guy?

25 - Does Steve know where you live...

I am surprised that with the Piazza signing, there isn't more comments and opinions. Is he no longer of interest to the Dodger following?

IMHO - Mike Piazza was and still is my favorite baseball player. But above all I want to see the most success with the Dodgers.

I feel that Piazza left the Dodgers far too soon but coming back now would be far too late. I wish him the best except when he plays the Dodgers and look forward to him being elected to the Hall of Fame as a Dodger.

[25] perhaps bob also likes to randomly toss grenades into the stacks at work.

I agree that bringing in Piazza would disturb things set up by Ned and the McCourts. Perhaps there is also an attitude of "don't look back." Piazza was too much a part of the past (and not a great past, either).

If Sheffield hadn't been such a malcontent...

Bob, I agree with you on Choi. He has a slow bat. It's not a good thing, but nor is it fatal. Wally Joyner's batspeed was no better than average, perhaps even below average. Choi's batspeed would increase if he improves his swing path. Bill Robinson detected a major flaw in his swing. Choi made sporadic progress in fixing it.

I also mostly agree with you on Baez. I'd rate him a "pretty good" addition to the bullpen.

Who is this Sheffield that people keep referring to? My memory seems to have a hole in it...

He came over in the trade for Bonilla.

13 --

I agree that trading Loretta for Mirabelli raises questions. Lots of people are ripping the Padres for that trade.

But people might be overestimating Lorreta. He hit three home runs in 404 at-bats. Even before he hurt his thumb, he hadn't hit any homers. He's likely still more valuable than Mirabelli, but he also gets about $1.6 million more -- maybe that money helped the SDP get Piazza.

Nate you once asked which minor league analyst book to buy between Sickels and Deric McKamey. I just got both today in the mail and I'd have to recommend Sickels. I think you would be disapointed in the brevity of the McKamey content and you would of course miss out on the Sickels commentary and humor.

I always thought 'Molokai' was a cool alias.

I am thinking of changing my handle to my dogs name too.

-Lola

I always thought 'Molokai' was a cool alias.

I am thinking of changing my handle to my dogs name too.

-Lola

The LAD can never admit it, of course, but when they traded him, they likely had concerns that Piazza would break down physically. Industry, speculation was rampant that Mike was a steroid user aand that he would fall apart during his next big contract.

Should the Dodgers have dealt him? No, but there was some logic to doing it. Of course, how they went about it was awful. If you believe the GM's account, which I do, ownership's mandate made it a lot harder to get fair value for the greatest offensive catcher in MLB history.

I still would've brought him back at $2 million.

Little is good at dealing with players and playing time. He dealt with chemistry/playing time issues very well in Boston. Finding two starts a week for Mike Piazza would be a snap. And on the other days, you'd love to have a power bat like that one on your bench.

Would Piazza have gone along with it? Questionable.

39 - I don't know who the "they" in your first line refers to, but the trade was strictly engineered by the News Corp. brass, whom I doubt thought one moment about Piazza and steroids.

Piazza might have been traded eventually, but it wasn't going to happen then. Fred Claire ended a 30-year career with the Dodgers over the trade, after all.

11
I think SD is 3rd as the teams stand today. I wouldnt' be surprised to see the Giants playing in August without Barry which would make the Padres the competition. When was the last time a left fielder was able to play effectively after missing 95% of his 40 year old season due to leg problems? He doesn't have the DH to fall back on, he has to play the field to bat. He may be historical but after losing 30 pounds I think we will see a very mortal Barry Bonds in 2006. Randy Winn should return to his normal average self and M Alou could break anytime. I love the Giant starting rotation compared to the rest of the division but find little else to worry about.

38 Maybe we should all go by our pet's names for a day. It might be awkward - but fun nonetheless! Mine was Jezebel...

Jon,

Unfortunately the brass from News Corp. doesn't leave us with a track record of their thoughts so maybe I shouldn't say they "likely" had concerns about something that was a prevalent source of speculation in the industry. It seems reasonable, though, to assume that such speculation wasn't foreign to them.
I fully agree that the News Corp. suits engineered the deal.

My pet name handle would be Sam or Frannie

44 Come on Marty, go with Frannie. We both can get in touch with our feminine side for a day.

If only we would have gotten Cliff Floyd or Mark Kotsay instead of Eisenreich.

Oh well.

My handle would be Pippin. or Pippy. Think cute hobbit, not ugly, ugly small forward.

40
I almost forgave Claire for the Pedro trade the way he handled himself in the aftermath of the Piazza debacle. Poor Todd Ziele who was so happy as a Dodger. Everyone who talks about Sheffield being better then Piazza forgets that we had to take on Bonilla who was the worse 3b I've ever seen play and pay him a lot of money at the same time. I remember praying that when Sheffield was demanding more money to accept the trade that we'd see the light and tell him to take his bag and head back to Florida. It was the saddest day of my Dodger time. He is the only future HOF that came up through the LOS ANGELES DODGER farm system as a hitter. We had the greatest hitting catcher in baseball history play for us, signed by us, enjoyed by us. No doubt the contract he ended up signing was an albatross on the Mets at the end but they did get some serious hitting during most of the deal.
VORP during Sheffield tenure on Dodgers
Year Piazza Sheffield
1998 80 55
1999 64 62
2000 78 85
2001 74 77
Total 296 279

Todd Zeile went on to have a solid 98/99 while Bonilla went into oblivion and the only thing of note he did at the end of his career was play cards with Ricky while a game was in process.

I'm left with
Scarlett, Lucky, Snowy, PeterLorrie, IndianaJones, MommyMew, LittleBit, Dakota, Bigfoot, and finally Jerry.

Again, I don't quibble with the decision to trade Piazza, especially if you fear he's going to break down during the next big contract.

Where the Dodgers deserve an F is how they went about it. The top brass made it impossible for the GM to maximize Piazza's trade value.

Call it failed integrity of process. The Dodgers are experts at it. Happened under the News Corp. suits and it happened under McCourt/Depodesta.

On the other end of the spectrum are the Red Sox and Athletics, who are devoted to integrity of process.

That doesn't mean you always get optimal results, but it sure improves the chances of success.

Toy,

You see the Padres as third and SFG as second? Does that mean you see the Dodgers as first?

MommyMew would be an interesting handle

49 - Sounds like the Shaq trade. I certainly was not against trading the big fella, but coming out and saying they intended to do so precluded them from getting a decent package (Nowitzki or Wade) in return.

52
Right, trading Shaq was not the problem, taking on Grant's contract was. Compound the problem by trading the best player received in the deal for Kwame Brown and it is a wonder that they are still a playoff team. Lamar Odom is a talented player but he's several light bulbs short of being Scottie Pippen.

51
Some cats just name themselves.

My cat wouldn't name herself not matter how hard I asked.

As I recall the Piazza situation, the Dodgers offered him quite a bit of money and he said no. Since I favor fiscal responsibility in baseball I had no problem with trading Piazza, though the way the deal was handled was beyond comprehension. How a player could be traded without the knowledge of the g.m. of the team is beyond a farce.

The very next year Malone signed Kevin Brown to an idiotic contract. At that point I became a hibernating Dodger fan. It angered me that the Dodgers would give all that money to a jerk rather than pay Mike the same amount. When Dan Evans and Bob Daly took over I thought things had improved enough to come out of hibernation.

The McCourt follies have me considering taking another long nap. One of the things that keeps me a Dodger fan actually has no actual affiliation with the Dodgers, and that would be this site. If I am not a Dodger fan I don't know if I would enjoy this site as much. Jon drives a hard bargain. I don't think I could get him to switch to write a Mariner blog.

Stan from Tacoma

It would have been great for Piazza to come back, but I really wonder if he wanted to come back to the Dodgers. The Padres offer him far more security and the opportunity to catch 80-90 games, I don't believe that was a given with the Dodgers and developing Navarro and eventually Martin in the long run is more more important.

As far as the tragedy of losing Piazza, in addition to the stupidy of News Corp in how the trade was handled, there are two other groups who bear much of the responsibility. One, was the Peter O'Malley regime, who decided not to sign him to a long term contract in 97; because there was an impending sale. The Dodgers could have locked him up for 5 years at a time when he was the most productive, they instead chose to sign Raul Mondesi-a move that ultimately backfired. The other responsible party were our friends at MLB who handled the sale from O'Malley to Fox at a glacial pace. Had the sale been approved in late 97 with everything in place, Fox with Claire and Daly would have been able to work out the contract

One final note a part of me says that Lorenzo his agent would never allow him to come back to LA, I believe that had Piazza stayed and had been able to ride out the chaos in the first few years of Fox, he ultimately would have made more money with his contract and endorsements. Can't prove it, but would bet money on it.

Maybe so Louis. I have never had the feeling that Piazza has any fond memories of the Dodgers, though Dodger fans with any sense have fond memories of him. He has done quite nicely without LA, no doubt about that.

I know some will disagree, but I have always thought Piazza should have been moved from behind the plate before he ever reached Triple A. From what I understand LaSorda made him into a catcher because all the scouts, including scouts for the Dodgers, said he was too slow and too unathletic to be drafted as a first baseman.
Too slow to be a first baseman; LaSorda countered by calling him a catcher. Maybe Mike could beat Benji Molina in a foot race for all that is worth. I would have stuck him in left field and made sure I had a centerfielder who could cover ground.

I hope Piazza has a good year. He is one of the best hitters I have ever seen and I for one am glad I had the chance to see him perform as a Dodger.

Stan from Tacoma

So what is the impact of Piazza going to the Padres? NOTHING. Piazza has been on the decline at least the past four seasons. His OPS keeps shrinking. His batting AVG keeps falling. Now he's going to PETCO? Piazza and Cameron sould form an impressive "power" punch in that huge park...as if Cameron was a great hitter before he got to the Padres.

I'm sorry, Piazza was a great Dodger and a great catcher for many years but his time is about up. Let him catch for the Padres, that just makes another easy out for us when we pitch to him, providing he hasn't fallin to another injury by then.

An oberservation:

I've observed that many Dodger fans are still unconvinced that the Dodgers have a winning team and doubt that they can win the division-the "NL Worst" as I've heard. This is a conception that I do not understand. First and foremost, most fans last year were blantantly critical of the Dodgers, observing that the team had no hitting and poor pitching, lacking chemistry and that DePo was a massive failure. But I think everyone seems to forget one thing:

NO ONE SAW THE PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP OF THE DODGERS ONCE!

How can you judge a team you never saw play together once? Can you really expect to win a division much less win in general when:

-Two of your starting outfielders suffer broken wrists from inside fastballs
-Your left-handed reliever blows out his ankle comming OUT OF THE BULLPEN
-Your third basemen blows out his knee
-Your SHORTSTOP requires season ending TOMMY JOHN surgery
-Your Cy Young closer goes down to elbow surgery
-Your pitcher throws his glove at the ball mid-air

Need I go on?

We never got to see our team play. We deserved a mulligan. But now we are healthy. And as far as I can see, we have improved upon the team we never got to see last year.

-For once we have a legit leadoff man. Ceaser is many things but a leadoff man he is not.
-We added two former batting champions. those of you who cry out that we shoud have signed kneeless Piazza have to think Nomaaaar and "Miller" a great additions. If Piazza could rebound, so could these two.

And most of all-Gagne is back. How many games did we blow last year? Are you going to tell me if we had Gagne we wouldn't have been that much closer to the Padres? With oour all-injured.crap rookie team?

The rest of the division hasn't done squat. Ohhhhhhhh-the Giants added an aging +4.00 ERA in Morris-AND BARRY IS BACK!!!!!!!! Does "team" begin and end with one man? I think I heard the Giants starting outfield have all changed their uniform numbers to 40-mirroring their collected average age.

Oh yes, the Padres-the defending division champs-they traded their top 5 second basemen for a backup catcher and traded for Cameron who still had headaches. yea, I'm scared.

I'm not even getting into the other teams. Summed up, Dodger fans-Have a little faith would ya?

I'm not sure why you think everyone has forgotten about the injuries from last year, or that most people don't believe the Dodgers can be a winning team this year.

Just because people see flaws in the 2006 Dodgers doesn't mean they see a non-contender (at least for the division). Be as hopeful as you like!