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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
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Vote for the All-Time Dodger Single-Season MVP
2006-02-02 10:00
by Jon Weisman

Get your ballots ready. Below are 34 candidates for the all-time Dodger single-season MVP. (I left out pitchers not because I don't think pitchers can be MVPs, but because I already held an all-time Dodger Cy Young competition a couple years ago, won by Sandy Koufax's 1966 season.)

You can follow the links below to see more conventional statistics on each player. The statistics provided are from Baseball Prospectus:

  • EQA: "Equivalent Average. A measure of total offensive value per out, with corrections for league offensive level, home park, and team pitching. EQA considers batting as well as baserunning, but not the value of a position player's defense. The EqA adjusted for all-time also has a correction for league difficulty. …League average EqA is always equal to .260."
  • WARP-3: "Wins Above Replacement Player, level 3. The number of wins this player contributed, above what a replacement level hitter, fielder, and pitcher would have done … with difficulty added into the mix."
  • Vote for your top five choices. Points will be awarded on a 10-7-5-3-1 basis. Write-in candidates are permitted. I'd recommend not factoring postseason performance into your choice, because then it becomes less of a level playing field. But it's up to you.

    Have fun!

    Dan Brouthers1892.33511.1
    Jimmy Sheckard1901.3249.6
    Zack Wheat1924.3258.4
    Babe Herman1930.3398.4
    Lefty O'Doul1932.3379.9
    Dolph Camilli1941.3319.8
    Pete Reiser1941.33110.5
    Pee Wee Reese1949.29110.0
    Jackie Robinson1949.32612.3
    Roy Campanella1951.32511.7
    Jackie Robinson1951.32812.9
    Jackie Robinson1952.33011.1
    Roy Campanella1953.32211.7
    Duke Snider1953.3339.5
    Gil Hodges1954.31110.5
    Duke Snider1954.3419.1
    Duke Snider1955.33411.3
    Duke Snider1956.32811.5
    Tommy Davis1962.3198.3
    Maury Wills1962.2888.7
    Jimmy Wynn1974.31410.2
    Ron Cey1975.30410.1
    Steve Garvey1975.2969.0
    Reggie Smith1977.3368.9
    Pedro Guerrero1982.3239.6
    Pedro Guerrero1985.34910.6
    Kirk Gibson1988.3289.7
    Mike Piazza1993.31710.7
    Mike Piazza1995.3389.0
    Mike Piazza1996.33710.4
    Mike Piazza1997.35712.4
    Gary Sheffield2000.3469.3
    Shawn Green2001.3249.3
    Shawn Green2002.32110.2
    Adrian Beltre2004.33011.4

    Comments (180)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2006-02-02 10:09:46
    1.   bigcpa
    Jack Fimple snubbed again!

    This made me realize I've never looked at Jackie Robinson's season stats. This guy was the original Greek God of Walks. And this almost looks like a misprint:

             SB   CS
    1947   29   0
    1948   22   0
    1949   37   0
    1950   12   0

    2006-02-02 10:11:03
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    1. Piazza - 1997
    2. Robinson - 1949
    3. Reiser - 1941
    4. Guerrero - 1985
    5. Davis - 1962

    I don't recall the Cy Young competition. I would have voted for Dazzy Vance in 1928.

    But that train has left the station.

    2006-02-02 10:14:44
    3.   Jon Weisman
    1 - That is a misprint, in the sense that they just weren't tracking CS.
    2006-02-02 10:18:53
    4.   Bob Timmermann
    According to Retrosheet, Robinson led the NL in stolen bases in 1949 with 37 AND in caught stealings with 14.

    They don't have CS totals for him for 1948 and 1950.

    2006-02-02 10:19:55
    5.   Curtis Lowe
    Kirk Gibson 1988-
    Never has a balding long haired mustache sporting ball player meant meant so much to a team, consider not only the stats he put up that year but also the teams record in 87 and the complete turn around his clubhouse presence provided. Some here might say that clubhouse leadership deosnt matter or that its irrelevant but after watching countless interviews from his teamates of that year talking about Gibsons fire and how the team fed off it, I find it hard to believe that without they would have been the Magical 88' Dodgers they are now remembered as.

    Plus Besides Beltre and Piazza, I was too young to remember anyother Dodgers.

    2006-02-02 10:21:57
    6.   Steve
    I'll come back to this vote, but I can't help but note that when the guys over at Baseball Musings ran the numbers for ground balls only, Choi went from average to good. That is because people who complain about Choi's defense are liars.
    2006-02-02 10:22:41
    7.   sanchez101
    1. Jackie Robinson - 1951
    2. Mike Piazza - 1997
    3. Jackie Robinson - 1949
    4. Adrian Beltre - 2004
    5. Jim Wynn - 1974

    Wynn had the best season by any Dodger player in the 1970's (measured by WARP3), in what may be the best season by the Dodgers in that decade, I think that should deserve a mention.

    2006-02-02 10:27:49
    8.   Penarol1916
    1. Jackie Robinson- 1951
    2. Pedro Guerrero- 1985 (for a 7 year old living in the US for the 1st time, he made me see why my dad loved baseball and the dodgers so much).
    3. Mike Piazza- 1997
    4. Adrian Beltre- 2004
    5. Jackie Robinson- 1951
    2006-02-02 10:36:26
    9.   Jon Weisman
    7 - I added Jimmy to the ballot.

    8 - you double-voted for one guy.

    2006-02-02 10:39:00
    10.   Penarol1916
    9. Sorry, I meant for #5 to be 1949.
    2006-02-02 10:44:44
    11.   Marty
    1. Snider 1955. Year before I was born, but first World Series.
    2. Davis 1962. Only Dodger from the 60's on the list.
    3. Smith 1977. Go into the stands Reggie!
    4. Piazza 1997. Amazing year.
    5. Robinson 1949. Great statistical year.
    2006-02-02 10:46:24
    12.   Eric L
    1. Piazza, 1997
    2. Robinson, '49
    3. Robinson, '51
    4. Snider, '55
    5. Beltre, '04
    2006-02-02 10:55:17
    13.   Bob Timmermann
    Looks like Marty is getting an AARP card in the mail this year.
    2006-02-02 10:59:17
    14.   Marty
    My birthday was 1/6. I didn't get an AARP card that day, but I DID get a letter from Forest Lawn urging me to start planning for the "future".
    2006-02-02 11:08:07
    15.   Eric L
    14 Funny story.. My mom is a couple of months older than my dad. The year they turned 50, he started giving my mom crap about receiving her AARP card soon. Of course, as soon as he started giving her crap about it, his AARP stuff arrived in the mail.
    2006-02-02 11:16:35
    16.   Mr Customer
    1. Robinson '49
    2. Snider '55
    3. Guerrero '85
    4. Campanella '53
    5. Beltre '04
    2006-02-02 11:18:59
    17.   Marty
    Jon, who do you vote for?
    2006-02-02 11:22:41
    18.   Bob Timmermann
    AARP? Benevolent lobbying group? Or tool of Satan? All this and more!
    2006-02-02 11:22:43
    19.   Jon Weisman
    17 - I spent too much of my morning getting the ballot ready. I'll probably post my choices tonight.
    2006-02-02 11:24:23
    20.   Izzy
    Well, after custom building a spreadsheet using the seasons listed above, I came up with a new stat combining WARP-3 and EQA which I will call AARP-3. After running several sim seasons on my extremely excellent database, the following player seasons are my choices.

    #1-Piazza-97 no doubt in my mind
    #5-Gibson-88 For sentimental and chemical purposes only, of course.


    2006-02-02 11:26:35
    21.   Vishal
    1. Piazza 1997
    2. Robinson 1949
    3. Snider 1955
    4. Robinson 1951
    5. TIE: Guerrero 1985/Beltre 2004
    2006-02-02 11:28:15
    22.   corey
    1.Guerrero - 1985
    2.Guerrero - 1982
    3.Gibson - 1988
    4.Piazza - 1997
    5.Beltre - 2004

    Finally, Pedro Guerrero can get the recognition he deserves for single-handedly carrying the Dodgers offense through most of the 80s! Anyone who followed those teams knows what I'm talking about, despite his injuries or alleged sub-par seasons. He was a force in that lineup like no other LA Dodger has ever been. Not even Piazza. Only Gibson comes close.

    2006-02-02 11:32:07
    23.   DXMachina
    1. Piazza - 1997
    2. Robinson - 1949
    3. Reese - 1949
    4. Guerrero - 1985
    5. Cey - 1975
    2006-02-02 11:32:15
    24.   mob
    The beauty of this is we can factor in character, leadership & other non-statistical factors in our own personal voting formula. some of those intangibles are the reason Petey "Hands of Stone, Glove of Iron" would never be on my list. Although one of my picks is lacking in these attributes he did have some redeeming qualities.

    1. Robinson 1951 could suck the life out of the opposition.
    2. Piazza '97 - just a great year
    3. The Duke '55 delivered their 1st Championship
    4. Gibson '88 - refused to lose
    5. T. Davis '62 - a quiet leader who spoke with his bat.

    thanks Jon, this was fun.

    2006-02-02 11:33:30
    25.   Daniel Zappala
    1. Duke Snider 1955
    2. Roy Campanella 1953
    3. Jackie Robinson 1949
    4. Jimmy Winn 1974
    5. Kirk Gibson 1988
    6. Zach Wheat 1924

    I know the vote for Wheat doesn't count, but I had to vote for him somehow because I remember his card from a baseball simulation game I played as a kid.

    2006-02-02 11:59:45
    26.   PennyJavy
    1. Mike Piazza 1997
    2. Pedro Guerrero 1985
    3. Reggie Smith 1977
    4. Jackie Robinson 1949
    5. Roy Campanella 1951
    2006-02-02 12:15:23
    27.   Uncle Miltie
    I'm only ranking the ones I've seen (top 5)
    1. Piazza 1997
    2. Beltre 2004
    3. Sheffield 2000
    4. Piazza 1996
    5. Green 2001
    2006-02-02 12:23:37
    28.   Jon Weisman
    Who will speak for Dan Brouthers?
    2006-02-02 12:24:36
    29.   Winthrop
    1. Piazza 1997 - no doubt
    2. Robinson 1951 - His courageous pioneer status has obscured for me how truly great a ballplayer he was
    3. Guerrero 1985 - He carried that team (a team that really seemed much better than the 1988 team which won it all, and from which he was banished (for JOHN TUDOR!!!???), oddly doing almost all his damage after waking up on June 1st, and having Mike Marshal and Greg Brock batting behind him all season
    4. Snider 1955 - Wow
    5. Beltre 2004 - I wonder if he would have had better years before that were it not for the botched appendectomy
    2006-02-02 12:37:59
    30.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm for Gwilim Morgan!
    2006-02-02 12:49:44
    31.   Winthrop

    After crude numerical analysis of rank orders of WARP3 and Eqa in the above list, I would have to replace Beltre 2004 with Brouthers 1892 as my #5. Also, I would have to move Guerrero 1985 above Robinson 1951. On the other hand, it's hard to vote for someone from the 19th century, and Robinson seems to beat Guerrero in the character department.

    It was Guerrero who in the 90s had OJ Simpson call the cops on him. This does not entirely speak to his character, but he was acquitted on drug selling charges on the defense that he is too dumb to engage in drug sales. All the same, he was by far my favorite Dodger in the 1980s and I love the way he would wave his index finger after a home run to honor his wife, Denise. I only know that because Vinny mentioned it every time. (I know I'm not the only one here who remembered Pedro's wife's name. Right?)

    2006-02-02 12:55:37
    32.   Eric Enders
    1. Robinson, 1949
    2. Campanella, 1953
    3. Guerrero, 1985
    4. Gibson, 1988
    5. Robinson, 1951
    2006-02-02 12:56:21
    33.   joejoejoe
    1. Jackie Robinson - 1949
    2. Duke Snider - 1955
    3. Kirk Gibson - 1988
    4. Pete Reiser - 1941
    5. Mike Piazza - 1997
    2006-02-02 12:58:56
    34.   joejoejoe
    D'oh. That should be '1. Robinson - 1951'. I put the wrong year.
    2006-02-02 13:03:54
    35.   blue22
    I'll have to go with the criteria put forth in 27 - first hand experience:

    1. Mike Piazza 1997
    2. Kirk Gibson 1988
    3. Adrian Beltre 2004
    4. Pedro Guerrero 1985
    5. Mike Piazza 1996

    Not on the ballot consideration: LoDuca's 2001, eqa of .311 and WARP-3 of 7.7 are reasonably competitive to the seasons here, with the additional bonus of off-the-charts scrappiness and clutchiness.

    2006-02-02 13:12:47
    36.   Jon Weisman
    I'd actually strongly advise against only voting for those you've seen first-hand.

    It's unfortunate enough that none of us are 120 years old and will naturally tend to vote for more recent players, but this will skew the results even further. Not that it's life or death, but it seems unnecessary to do this.

    If you are using stats at all to evaluate the more recent players you've seen, you can probably use them to evaluate those you've only read about or seen clips of, right?

    2006-02-02 13:29:16
    37.   Bob Timmermann
    Can't we be like ESPN and only consider athletes whom they have footage of?
    2006-02-02 13:37:57
    38.   Bob Timmermann
    For the Puerto Rico team in the Caribbean Series, "old friends" Alex Cora and Jose Valentin are batting 1st and 3rd for the Boricuas.
    2006-02-02 13:40:51
    39.   Johnson
    36 The major problem with none of us being 120 is that while we can rank the recent players subjectively, we can only rank those from the past objectively, based on the numbers. If you encourage both, the subjective memories of recent players will bias the vote in their favor. If you discourage any form of subjectivity, we're better off arguing for the best metric (e.g. WARP3 as a percentage of team WARP3) and then letting the numbers decide. At least, that's the way it seems to me.
    2006-02-02 13:41:44
    40.   FirstMohican
    My top 5:

    1. Mike Piazza 1996
    2. Mike Piazza 1995
    3. Ron Cey 1975
    4. Kirk Gibson 1988
    5. Dolph Camilli 1941

    Based on The EQA and WARP3 given, and also OPS+ and the team's OPS+ (Team OPS+ is what got Gibby on this list). Piazza 96 blew everyone else out of the water. Here're 6-10 if anyone is interested:

    6. Shawn Green 2002
    7. Adrian Beltre 2004
    8. Shawn Green 2001
    9. Mike Piazza 1993
    10. Mike Piazza 1997

    Not one Dodger from the 50's on the top 10. Campanella 51 was the first appearance at 15. The LVP of the group provided by Jon is Duke Snider 1955.

    2006-02-02 13:50:15
    41.   Uncle Miltie
    40- Shawn Green's 2002 at 6? I seem to remember him being extremely unproductive until a certain 4 home run game in May (?)
    2006-02-02 13:51:19
    42.   Jon Weisman
    39 - I'm not discouraging subjectivity (although you won't see me voting for R.J. Reynolds). I'm saying you can be subjective about players you weren't alive to see.

    Somehow, I know that Sandy Koufax was the greatest lefthander in Dodger history, even though I was born a year after he retired.

    Look, this vote meant to be fun, not scientific, and I don't want to step on the fun in the slightest. In fact, the thing about voting only for players you've seen struck me as taking things too seriously.

    2006-02-02 14:01:27
    43.   grandcosmo
    37. We call it the "ESPN Era" now.
    2006-02-02 14:01:56
    44.   Jacob L
    Jimmy Sheckard had just an awesome year. That said, I'm going with Pedro in 85. I'm sure everybody remembers that he didn't really take off that year until he was moved back to the outfield at the beginning of June. From that point on, he was a monster. With jheri-curl.
    2006-02-02 14:06:04
    45.   grandcosmo
    1. Robinson - 1949
    2. Robinson - 1951
    3. Piazza - 1997
    4. Scioscia - 1985
    5. Reese - 1947
    2006-02-02 14:07:19
    46.   Voxter
    1. Jackie Robinson, 1949

    2. Mike Piazza, 1997 (A funny note about this season. In the fall of 1997, I was a senior at a Catholic high school. I received JUG [Judgement Under God -- ie, detention] on the first day of school for showing up with a t-shirt that read, "Mike Piazza is God.")

    3. Robinson again, 1951

    4. Duke Snider, 1995

    5. Gibson, 1988. A sentimental choice. Sue me.

    2006-02-02 14:07:50
    47.   Voxter
    That should read,

    4. Duke Snider, 1955

    2006-02-02 14:08:09
    48.   Winthrop
    45 Can you explain your thoughts on Scioscia 1985?
    2006-02-02 14:08:22
    49.   blue22
    41 - I'm not sure how Shawn Green's 2002 outranks his 2001 using EQA and WARP-3. 2001 looks notably better using OBP/SLG/OPS:

    2001 - .372/.598/.970
    2002 - .385/.558/.943

    He also hit .297 with 49 HR's in '01, compared to .285 and 42 in '02

    2006-02-02 14:09:33
    50.   jasonungar05
    1. Gibson 88
    2. Robinson 49
    3. Guerrero 85
    4. Piazza -96
    5. Piazza-97 (just too good from a catcher, even if we didnt win the division)
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2006-02-02 14:09:45
    51.   grandcosmo
    I voted for Reese because he had a hell of a year in 1947 (led the team in HRs unbelievably), and helped hold the team together during what had to be an incredibly tough year for everyone.
    2006-02-02 14:15:18
    52.   Bob Timmermann
    Jimmy Sheckard, one of two players to lead the NL in home runs and stolen bases in a season.

    The other player is in the Hall of Fame and it's....?

    2006-02-02 14:15:56
    53.   grandcosmo
    48. Mostly just to stir things up but Scioscia had a great year with the bat and next to Guerrero might have been the best hitter on the team. He was 2nd in the league in OBP and in the top 10 in OPS+. He was also the undisputed team leader and handled a great staff that season.
    2006-02-02 14:25:03
    54.   Mark
    1. Robinson '49
    2. Robinson '51
    3. Robinson '52
    4. Snider '56
    5. Campanella '51

    For me, Piazza, and Beltre are off the list. Jackie didn't have creatine, muscle-mass-boosters, GNC labs, or The Clear.

    2006-02-02 14:25:43
    55.   Winthrop
    53 2nd in OBP? Wow. I did not know that. Still a far cry from Piazza's and Camanella's good seasons, no?
    2006-02-02 14:26:23
    56.   Woody
    1. Jackie Robinson-1949
    2. Roy Campanella-1953
    3. Duke Snider-1955
    4. Pete Reiser-1941
    5. Mike Piazza-1997 (would be higher, but his defense wasn't great.
    2006-02-02 14:26:46
    57.   FirstMohican
    Re: 41 & 49

    It helped Green 02's case that Dodgers 02 were a little less offensively capable. #'s 5 through 9 were extremely close. One or two home runs from a couple players could've totally restructured 5-9.

    Removing Green's 4 HR game (or that insane week for that matter) would've dropped him a couple slots possible, but I don't see the need for faulting a player for having a good game or a good week.

    There will be days when a player hits a HR when the team is up by 10, and there will be days where he sacrifices in the winning run. That said, Green definitely had a reputation of hitting them when they didn't count.

    2006-02-02 14:30:40
    58.   regfairfield
    List generated by taking the difference between the player's WARP3 and the second best player, which seems to best match the accepted definition of valuable while throwing out the post season requirement.

    Beltre '04 (4.8)
    Gibson '88 (4.3)
    Green '02 (4.1)
    Guerro '82 (4)
    Piazza '97 (3.9)

    2006-02-02 14:32:39
    59.   gcrl
    1. snider 55
    2. guerrero 85
    3. piazza 97
    4. robinson 49
    5. garvey 75 (popeye needs the love)
    2006-02-02 14:33:21
    60.   Vishal
    [54] nor did the pitchers he was facing. that's why the stats are normalized.
    2006-02-02 14:36:21
    61.   regfairfield
    Pretty sure that I'm going to be the only vote for Shawn Green. That just makes me feel dirty.
    2006-02-02 14:36:42
    62.   Bob Timmermann
    The true original Greek God of Walks was John McGraw

    He was injured a lot, but look at his career OBP.

    2006-02-02 14:42:09
    63.   Bob Timmermann
    And let us not forget other "Walking Men" (besides Eddie Yost).

    Max "Camera Eye" Bishop

    And Roy Cullenbine
    who walked so much that the St. Louis Browns traded him away because they thought he was lazy and just didn't want to swing.

    And former Dodger Elmer Valo
    Who holds the MLB record for most walks as a pinch-hitter (91!)

    2006-02-02 14:43:52
    64.   Vishal
    [62] an isolated discipline of .132... and apparently he stopped striking out after 1896.
    2006-02-02 14:44:46
    65.   Bob Timmermann
    Strikeouts were harder to come by before 1901 because foul balls weren't counted as strikes.
    2006-02-02 14:45:33
    66.   Vishal
    [63] not to mention gene tenance and eddie stanky
    2006-02-02 14:47:36
    67.   Vishal
    [65] haha, i wonder if there were any 400-pitch complete games. or 40-pitch at-bats.
    2006-02-02 14:50:33
    68.   Bob Timmermann
    Stanky is the Dodgers record holder for most walks in a season: 148 in 1945. Teammate Augie Galan had 114 that year. But the Dodgers still finished in third.

    When the good pitchers came back from the war, his walk total "plummeted" to 137.

    The L.A. Dodger high is 110 by Jim Wynn in 1974. Brett Butler had 108 in 1991.

    2006-02-02 15:00:40
    69.   Marty
    59 As I recall, Popeye was gettin the love in just about every town.
    2006-02-02 15:03:17
    70.   D4P
    Strikeouts were harder to come by before 1901 because foul balls weren't counted as strikes.

    There's a certain rationale to that. I mean, why enforce the same penalty for making contact (with the ball going foul) as for not making contact at all? Maybe fouls should only count as half of a strike...

    2006-02-02 15:05:45
    71.   Bob Timmermann
    But players could foul off balls repeatedly if they were good at it and not him them very hard. I have a feeling (nothing to back it up) that McGraw was good at fouling off pitches and getting a walk just out of making the pitcher lose his patience.

    That and McGraw was an extraordinarily irritating man to boot.

    2006-02-02 15:06:43
    72.   D4P
    But players could foul off balls repeatedly if they were good at it and not him them very hard.

    Players can currently do that, can't they?

    (See: Alex Cora)

    2006-02-02 15:11:48
    73.   Bob Timmermann
    Yes, but if you don't get charged with a strike, there's no penalty.

    You are just making the pitcher work harder and the pitcher doesn't gain any advantage in the count.

    2006-02-02 15:26:41
    74.   D4P
    Why penalize the hitter and reward the pitcher for foul balls with 0 or 1 strikes in the count, but then fail to do either with 2 strikes in the count?
    2006-02-02 15:27:01
    75.   grandcosmo
    Any time you mention Eddie Yost you have to mention Eddie Joost. They were like the same guy in the late 40s/early 50s.
    2006-02-02 15:41:09
    76.   kent
    Beltre 2004
    Robinson 1949
    Piazza 1997
    2006-02-02 15:43:41
    77.   Bob Timmermann

    So you basically you object to the fundamental nature of the batter-pitcher dynamic and favor a system where teams will score twice as many runs as they do now?

    In 1901 when the NL had the foul strike rule, teams average 4.63 runs a game. The AL didn't have it and teams average 5.35 runs a game.

    Jesse Burkett led the NL in BA at .376 while Nap Lajoie led the AL at .426.

    2006-02-02 15:53:55
    78.   dzzrtRatt
    1. Jackie Robinson, 1949
    2. Pedro Guerrero, 1985
    3. Mike Piazza, 1996
    4. Zack Wheat, 1924
    5. Jimmy Wynn, 1974

    Each of the Dodger teams on this list made the post-season. That was the x factor for me.

    2006-02-02 15:54:39
    79.   trainwreck
    1)Mike Piazza 1997
    2)Pedro Guerrero 1985
    3)Jackie Robinson 1951
    4)Dan Brouthers 1892
    5)Gary Sheffield 2000
    2006-02-02 15:55:23
    80.   Bob Timmermann

    The 1924 New York Giants are going to be really ticked off about losing their pennant that year.

    2006-02-02 16:04:06
    81.   trainwreck
    After checking some more stats from that season I would move Sheffield up a spot, just because he had so much more power than Brouthers.

    1) Piazza 97
    2) Guerrero 85
    3) Robinson 51
    4) Sheffield 00
    5) Brouthers 1892

    2006-02-02 16:27:56
    82.   Borchard504
    1. Green 02 (non linear thinking)
    2. Piazza 97
    3. Robinson 51
    4. Robinson 49
    5. Snider 55
    2006-02-02 16:36:04
    83.   Brendan
    1) Garvey 1975 (Because I can)

    2) Piazza 1997 (Walker in Col playing RF? A CRIME)

    3) Beltre 2004 (phenomenal season)

    4) J.R. 1951

    5) Guerrero 1985

    2006-02-02 17:09:07
    84.   Jacob L
    So can I assume that the working assumption here is that Garvey's 74 season was overrated compared to his 75 season? He was, afterall, the league MVP in 74.
    2006-02-02 17:13:36
    85.   popup
    #80, Bob, that's not the only one I would like to take away from them. 1951 and 1962 would be good years to change around also.

    #1, Robinson 1949
    #2, Campy, 1953
    #3, Beltre, 2004
    #4, Piazza, 1997
    #5, T. Davis, 1962

    Carl Furillo had a really good year in Brooklyn. I think it was 1954. He hit 340 something and was always regarded as a standout right fielder. Led the league in hitting I do believe. Tommy Davis in 1962 might be underrated on my list. He was a terrific hitter in a home ballpark that was not that friendly to offense. Not a very good outfielder though, and his poor baserunning ruined a possible Hall of Fame career. Though I don't like him, Jeff Kent had a really good year last year for a team that gave him little protection in the lineup. I don't think it was a top 5, but it should get at least a mention.

    Stan from Tacoma

    2006-02-02 17:21:54
    86.   Bob Timmermann
    As good as Zack Wheat was in 1924, the NL MVP that year was Dazzy Vance.
    The Giants beat out the Dodgers by 1 1/2 games.

    But like as they would in 1951 and 1962, the Giants would lose the World Series in 1924. In Game 7. In extra innings.

    2006-02-02 17:23:31
    87.   Bob Timmermann
    Oscar Robles starting at third base today for Mexico in the Caribbean Series. Trenidad Hubbard is batting leadoff.

    No, Hubbard isn't Mexican. But he was on the Mexican League champ.

    2006-02-02 17:27:29
    88.   FirstMohican
    Here're the 5 players from Jon's list that had the highest percentage of their team's WARP3:

    Jimmy Sheckard 1901 0.24
    Zack Wheat 1924 0.22
    Shawn Green 2001 0.21
    Mike Piazza 1995 0.20
    Mike Piazza 1996 0.20

    Seems like any way you evaluate these guys numerically, Piazza's name finds a way to get on the top 5, and (Jon might want to ignore this) Guerrero 85 seems to find his way to the bottom 5.

    2006-02-02 17:29:33
    89.   godvls
    #1 Jackie 1949
    #2 Guerrero 1985
    #3 Jackie 1951
    #4 Campanella 1953
    #5 Beltre 2004
    2006-02-02 17:34:43
    90.   Xeifrank
    I was thinking about running a Yahoo fantasy baseball league, and inviting DT posters/members to join. I usually use the standard 5x5 categories but would be open to adding a 6th hitting and pitching category or making some minor mods to a 5x5 league. I will post later on with the league signup information. Steve gets first dibs on Jason Phillips. :) vr, Xei
    2006-02-02 17:53:56
    91.   Rich Lederer
    You're placing a lot of value on BP's advanced metrics by not including Maury Wills' 1962 season among the 34 candidates for the all-time Dodger single-season MVP. Am also surprised that not one reader has mentioned him.

    MVP, Gold Glove, set all-time SB record in a run-scoring environment in which these incremental bases were extremely valuable. Lead-off hitter. Played 165 games.

    I wouldn't vote for him #1 and may not put him in my top five, but he is absolutely worthy of being in the top 34.

    2006-02-02 18:06:35
    92.   Sam DC
    This may be the most on-topic thread of the entire offseason. 91 comments and on a quick skim none appear to wander.

    I wasn going to comment on the Nationals blockbuster move today, but it wouldn't seem right.

    2006-02-02 18:12:04
    93.   Sam DC
    Well, I take it back a little. The Rules of Balls and Strikes I guess is a bit of a subtheme, but it's still pretty closely tied in to the whole.
    2006-02-02 18:28:40
    94.   King of the Hobos
    Robles just had Mexico's 3rd hit, a double to right. He seems to be the only Dodger in the Caribbean Series, although I could have missed someone
    2006-02-02 18:30:45
    95.   Another Tom
    Piazza '97
    Tommy Davis '62
    Robinson '51
    2006-02-02 18:32:09
    96.   Jon Weisman
    91 - I can add Wills to the list of nominees.
    2006-02-02 18:39:29
    97.   Bob Timmermann
    Robles didn't join the Mexican team until the Caribbean Series started as well.
    2006-02-02 18:42:55
    98.   Jon Weisman
    88 Should a player be penalized for having good teammates? (I guess this is the reverse Kobe question.)
    2006-02-02 18:52:18
    99.   Steve
    I did too wander. I shall now make amends.

    1) Piazza 97
    2) Robinson 49
    3) Campanella 53
    4) Beltre 04
    5) Gibson 88

    I'd have to vote for Piazza four times and Robinson three times before I ever got to Garvey or Guerrero.

    2006-02-02 18:54:12
    100.   regfairfield
    98 They usually are in the actual voting. (See Pujols, Albert.)
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2006-02-02 19:04:47
    101.   Bob Timmermann
    Orel Hershiser.
    Not the Dodgers manager
    Not the Rangers pitching coach
    Not in the Rangers front office anymore
    2006-02-02 19:20:40
    102.   Daniel Zappala
    I wish Orel Hershiser was the Dodger manager.
    2006-02-02 19:23:03
    103.   FirstMohican
    98/100 - In terms of calculating MVP honors I believe they should be. I guess I might think of an MVP as someone who's team needed them more than any other team needed one of their players.

    As far as Kobe, I believe that if you took him off of the Lakers, LA would have the least talented team in the NBA. To think that one player can take the supposed least talented team in the NBA to a 24-21 record I think he should definitely be a top candidate. Of course, I entertain "must make playoff" requirements.

    2006-02-02 19:23:58
    104.   Daniel Zappala
    Bob, I don't know what the Dallas Morning News says (registration required and I'm lazy), but these sources say Hershiser is headed to ESPN to do Baseball Tonight:

    2006-02-02 19:24:09
    105.   FirstMohican
    103 - My sentence structure clearly suffers as the day progresses.
    2006-02-02 19:34:34
    106.   walbers
    1. Piazza 1997
    2. Gibson 1988
    3. Snider 1955
    4. Jackie Robinson 1951
    5. Jackie Robinson 1949

    rgds, will

    2006-02-02 19:35:10
    107.   Bob Timmermann

    ESPN is what they say too.

    2006-02-02 19:51:06
    108.   Suffering Bruin
    Seriously, is there a way to get Lulu to track my order of TBODT?

    1. Piazza 1997
    2. Jackie 1951
    3. Jackie 1949
    4. Kirk Gibson 1988
    5. Pedro Guerrero 1985

    2006-02-02 19:59:34
    109.   ToyCannon
    Jackie Robinson 1949
    Jackie Robinson 1951

    I'd give Beltre a vote except for the stigma currently associated with his 2004 season. If he can come close in the next few years after testing to 2004 then I'll consider 2004 a real season, until then it is under a cloud.

    If I go could back and watch one player, it would have been Jackie during 1949. For those who don't think speed has an impact on a baseball game I just figure they never saw Rock Raines or Rickey or Maury in their prime destroy teams. I figure Jackie had the same impact but I'll never know from 1st hand experience just hearsay.

    2006-02-02 20:08:12
    110.   natepurcell
    is the carribbean series on tv>?
    2006-02-02 20:08:30
    111.   ToyCannon
    Oops didn't finish my top 5.

    Jackie Robinson 1949
    Jackie Robinson 1951
    Mike Piazza 1997
    Jimmy Wynn 1974
    Duke Snider 1955
    If only Pistol Pete Reiser had learned to stop running into brick walls I wonder how many times he'd have been on that list.

    2006-02-02 20:16:17
    112.   Bob Timmermann
    The Caribbean Series is on Fox Sports en Espanol, so it depends upon your cable system.

    The second game is supposed to be shown on tape delay at 9:30, but I'd skip that one.

    Most days, the games will be on at noon and 4 pm.

    2006-02-02 20:20:04
    113.   Jon Weisman
    108 - Suffering Bruin, e-mail me.
    2006-02-02 20:21:45
    114.   natepurcell
    now, what channel is fox sports en espanol on cox digital cable? anyone know?
    2006-02-02 20:33:13
    115.   Bob Timmermann
    It's a number higher than 13 and lower than 890.
    2006-02-02 20:35:54
    116.   LAT
    Whoa, what a relief. Was away from the computer all day and saw the 112 comments before I read Jon's post, I just assumed Ned made the "major" move and everyone was commenting. Stand pat Ned.

    62. Regfairfield, you had to know I was going to join you in the Shawn Green vote.

    1. Robinson 1949.
    2. Padre catcher 1997.
    3. Gibson 1988. Let's face it he won a WS
    4. Roy 1951
    5. Green 2001. 49 HRs

    2006-02-02 20:40:11
    117.   LAT
    How is UCLA up by only two at the half to lowly 1-8 ASU. Is this the UCLA-ASU football game all over again.
    2006-02-02 20:43:59
    118.   LAT
    Off topic but tomorrow I have to lay my Superbowl bets. I am leaning towards Seattle and the 4pts. What are others doing (or would do if they gambled). Proposition bets?
    2006-02-02 20:45:36
    119.   D4P
    For entertainment purposes only, of course...
    2006-02-02 20:46:58
    120.   Brendan
    Nate you can watch all 12 Car. World Series games online for $9.95. but here is the link

    2006-02-02 20:51:21
    121.   trainwreck
    Deep down I think Steelers win by at least a touchdown. But, it could be a closer game than expected. Betting line is definitely set to increase Steeler fan betting. I think Whisenhunt has been too good this post season at calling plays, so there is no way the seahawks are going to be able to stop them with the good defense and real good secondary.

    Hopefully Whisenhunt will be coaching the Raiders because if he turns us down we will be screwed.

    2006-02-02 20:54:03
    122.   regfairfield
    I like tails on the coin flip. Apparently those coins are usually a little top heavy.
    2006-02-02 20:55:26
    123.   trainwreck
    *even with the good defense...
    2006-02-02 20:56:25
    124.   LAT
    If ASU could hit an occasional shot, UCLA would be losing. Meanwhile, USC leading Ariz by 4.
    2006-02-02 21:25:34
    125.   Steve
    Nate, there will be huge money to be won on whatever team draws UCLA in the first round of the tournament. For entertainment purposes, only.
    2006-02-02 21:25:52
    126.   Marty
    I'm rooting for Pittsburgh. So you should probably be betting on Seattle.
    2006-02-02 21:27:58
    127.   Bob Timmermann
    Steve is showing his usual MWC bias.
    2006-02-02 21:30:33
    128.   Bob Timmermann
    If ASU could hit an occasional shot, UCLA would be losing. Meanwhile, USC leading Ariz by 4.

    ASU is shooting better than UCLA in the game.

    2006-02-02 21:33:00
    129.   Steve
    ASU is shooting better than UCLA in the game.

    Which doesn't help UCLA's case very much.

    The MWC is pretty lame this year. The interesting question is whether the committee will hand out three or four invitations to the MVC or whether it will let in a bunch of lame, undeserving, 10 loss PAC-10 teams.

    2006-02-02 21:34:56
    130.   Bob Timmermann
    However, UCLA has taken more shots.

    San Diego State and Air Force lead the MWC. That's not a good thing is it?

    2006-02-02 21:37:30
    131.   Steve
    No. The MWC is a one bid conference. I was talking about the Missouri Valley Conference. They are good teams killing each other.
    2006-02-02 21:40:37
    132.   natepurcell
    Nate, there will be huge money to be won on whatever team draws UCLA in the first round of the tournament. For entertainment purposes, only.

    thanks for the tip, but i dont gamble on college sports for some reason.

    2006-02-02 21:41:24
    133.   natepurcell
    re 132.

    i guess thats wrong, i do enter in a bracket pool for march madness but other then that, i dont gamble on college sports.

    2006-02-02 21:42:01
    134.   Bob Timmermann
    Well MWC and MVC do look alike.

    The Missouri Valley will get at least three bids and maybe four.

    ESPN's Bracketology gives the Pac-10 and Missouri Valley 4 bids each.

    Arizona lost again tonight, so they are sinking.
    Stanford appears to be coming back to life although they are escaping by the skin of their teeth.

    UCLA will get a fairly good seed if they keep up their good road record. They are 5-0 on the road. They still have to go to USC, the Bay Area schools and the Washingtons.

    2006-02-02 21:45:34
    135.   Steve
    The one year that the committee hosed Utah State, there was blood in the streets of Logan.
    2006-02-02 21:53:44
    136.   Bob Timmermann
    Utah State is listed among "Last Four Out".

    Cal is listed among "Last Four In".

    I find perverse satisfaction in that.

    2006-02-02 21:54:17
    137.   LAT
    Beisbol on Fox Espanol (62 on Comcast). Replay of Mex v. Val.
    2006-02-02 22:12:29
    138.   Louis in SF
    Snider 55
    Robinson 49
    Piazza 97
    Beltre 04
    Campanella 53

    Snider's season in 55 and the position he played competing also with Mays deserves in my mind much recognition. While some like to question Beltre's 04 season, especially based on what happened in 05, it seemed in addition to having the numbers, the key hits and the defense Beltre played in 04 was amazing. Robinson's 49 and the monster numbers Piazza put up as a catcher in 97 were astounding.

    2006-02-02 22:37:15
    139.   Andrew Shimmin
    Worse than having no names on the back of the jersey: having Coca-Cola on the back of every one of them. At least Mexico gets Corona; small consolation, in this game.
    2006-02-02 22:46:27
    140.   Xeifrank
    Depodesta's Dodgers and the Diamondbacks have both put together long winning streaks and leapfrogged Ned Colleti's Dodger team. Depo's team just swept Colleti's team in a three game set.

    NL West Standings
    PD Dodgers..14....7....._.....Won 4
    DBacks.......13....8.....1.....Won 7
    NC Dodgers.12....9.....2.....Lost 5
    Rockies......9.....12....5.....Lost 3
    Giants........9.....12....5.....Lost 1
    Padres.......6.....15....8.....Won 1

    Series #7
    NC Dodgers vs PD Dodgers
    Pitching Matchup ... Results ... Game MVP
    J.Seo vs O.Perez, PD Dodgers win 10-3, J.Drew was game MVP.
    B.Tomko vs D.Houlton, PD Dodgers win 2-1, A.Perez was game MVP.
    B.Penny vs B.Penny, PD Dodgers win 2-1, H.Choi was game MVP.

    DBacks vs Rockies
    B.Halsey vs B.Kim, DBacks win 3-1, B.Halsey was game MVP.
    M.Batista vs S.Kim, DBacks win 5-3, J.Estrada was game MVP.
    B.Webb vs J.Jennings, DBacks win 6-4, J.Estrada was game MVP.

    Giants vs Padres
    M.Cain vs S.Estes, Giants win 3-2, M.Matheny was game MVP.
    B.Hennessey vs C.Park, Giants win 3-2, M.Matheny was game MVP.
    J.Schmidt vs J.Peavy, Padres win 6-4, B.Giles was game MVP.

    2006-02-02 22:51:39
    141.   Strike4
    For me, the top mvp's should get their team into the post-season, at least to a playoff.

    Robinson 49. Most incredible... and important.
    Gibson 88. Most fantastic.
    Snider 55. Most finally.
    Piazza 96. Most wowsome.
    Wills 62. Most surprising.

    2006-02-02 22:56:31
    142.   Andrew Shimmin
    He may never have been a Dodger, but the all time single season MVP has to be Mike Matheny in Xeifrank's sim season.
    2006-02-02 23:11:26
    143.   Steve
    The people of Logan cry from their graves for justice.
    2006-02-02 23:25:49
    144.   Rich Lederer
    I know one thing: the three best players over a four- or five-year period are definitely Jackie Robinson (1949-1952), Duke Snider (1953-1956), and Mike Piazza (1993-1997). Roy Campanella, with his three MVPs in '51, '53, and '55, is close but his less than stellar '52 and downright poor '54 seasons separate him from Jackie, Duke, and Mike.

    Robinson, Snider, and Piazza all played premium, up-the-middle positions. I don't think you can go wrong picking Robinson in '49 or '51, Snider in '53, '54, or '55, or Piazza in '97.

    But if I had to select one, I would have to choose Piazza in 1997. A .362/.431/.638 season with 201 hits and 40 HR is sick for a catcher. He was robbed of the MVP that year.

    1. Piazza, 1997
    2. Robinson, 1951
    3. Snider, 1954
    4. Robinson, 1949
    5. Snider, 1955

    2006-02-03 05:07:56
    145.   Marc Normandin
    1. Jackie Robinson 1951
    2. Mike Piazza 1997
    3. Jackie Robinson 1949
    4. Roy Campanella 1951
    5. Roy Campanella 1953
    2006-02-03 05:40:38
    146.   Sam DC
    Well, my sense is these got pushed down out of site on The Griddle as Bob's Royce Clayton post got wiped out by his rushing tsunami of blogging. But I think they are funny enough to re-post.

    From the article on Royce Clayton:

    Some real gems from the article:

    "Clayton said playing for a winning team mattered the most." And so he signed with the Nationals? Right.

    "Robinson even once made the statement, 'If Jamey Carroll goes, I go.'" !!!

    2006-02-03 06:57:33
    147.   the count
    1. Jackie Robinson 1949
    2. Mike Piazza 1997
    3. Pedro Guerrero 1985
    4. Roy Campanella 1951
    5. Kirk Gibson 1988
    2006-02-03 07:01:52
    148.   Sam DC
    1. Robinson 49 -- put up those numbers and was playing second and played every game.
    2. Campanella 53
    3. Piazza 97
    4. Snider 55
    5. Reiser 41
    2006-02-03 07:22:16
    149.   Sam DC
    Jon -- LA Observed tells me you've got a new boss. High Concept Art generally loses me, but there was a quite interesting profile of the Dia movement and galleries in the New Yorker in the last couple of years if you're interested. (And I know a certain librarian who may be able to rustle them up for you, I'd expect.)
    2006-02-03 08:11:29
    150.   Jeromy
    1. Piazza 97
    2. Beltre 04
    3. Green 01
    4. Sheffield 00
    5. Gibson 88

    Honorable mention Karros 99. It is hard for me to vote single season MVP for players I never had the chance to watch play.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2006-02-03 08:28:37
    151.   ToyCannon
    Wouldn't hurt to have a Los Angeles Dodger MVP and a Brooklyn Dodger MVP. I'm a LA Dodger fan but became a Brooklyn fan after the fact when Jackie Robinson became my favorite historical player back when I was around 11. Funny how reading about a teams futility in the WS actually bothers you emotionally even when you weren't alive and how 55 felt so good to read about. People are strange because I know I'm not alone.
    2006-02-03 08:39:44
    152.   jasonungar05
    Fantasy Baseball: I just started a league at yahoo. 10 teams, Roto style. first come first serve.

    (I can change anything, such as head to head vs roto or player numbers etc)

    normal categories butI added OBP, SLG, OPS k/9, k/bb

    (ID# 10110)

    Password: 4815162342

    2006-02-03 08:56:42
    153.   Ben H
    1. Reiser 1941
    2. Piazza 1997
    3. Robinson 1951
    4. Snider 1955
    5. Campanella 1953
    2006-02-03 09:18:52
    154.   regfairfield
    152 In most cases you should have an equal number of pitching and hitting categories.
    2006-02-03 09:25:15
    155.   wkk
    1. Jackie Robinson 1949
    2. Duke Snider 1955
    3. Mike Piazza 1997
    4. Roy Campanella 1953
    5. Pedro Guerrero 1985
    2006-02-03 09:44:22
    156.   Jon Weisman
    149 - Yeah, it's big news over here. I remember that New Yorker piece, though of course I had no idea that the guy there would be my boss someday.
    2006-02-03 09:47:24
    157.   Brendan

    .Funny how reading about a teams futility in the WS actually bothers you emotionally even when you weren't alive and how 55 felt so good to read about. People are strange because I know I'm not alone.

    My Angel friends laugh at me because I root for the Orioles to make the WS so the Dodgers can avenge 1966. My parents hadn't even met in 1966. My friends can't understand why I would care.

    2006-02-03 09:49:14
    158.   Jon Weisman
    New post up top. But voting will remain open through the weekend. Results will be announced Monday.
    2006-02-03 10:12:31
    159.   MrTim
    1. Robinson 1949
    2. Piazza 1997
    3. Guerrero 1985
    4. Herman 1930
    5. Sheffield 2000
    2006-02-03 10:56:58
    160.   gcrl

    thanks. i'm in.

    2006-02-03 11:28:04
    161.   dodger58
    1. Piazza 1997
    2. Davis 1962
    3. Robinson 1949
    4. Snider 1955
    5. Beltre 2004

    Both Piazza and Beltre should have been NL MVPs in their respective years. I've watched the Dodgers since 1958, and never saw two better offensive years.

    2006-02-03 13:56:33
    162.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    My choices, balancing stats with memory with absurd notions of impact towards actually winning:

    1- Piazza '97
    2- Snider '55
    3- Beltre '04
    4- Robinson '49
    5- Gibson '88

    (Interesting how four of those five names have six letter last names!)

    In 1997 I was having a debate with a Canadian friend who supported Larry Walker's win for MVP, and I spent the time trying to isolate Walker's home field advantage (Coors) from his performance to prove that Piazza had a better year. Turns out I wasn't far off: EQA/WARP3 of .357/12.4 vs. Walker's .341/10.5.

    Beltre gets a nod because I can vividly recall him turning it on in the second half (again) after his monster first half, and doing so while hurt. It seems sentimental, now.

    And Gibson was another guy who seemed to carry the team (alongside Hershiser, of course). Also, gotta seem sentimental, there.

    2006-02-03 15:39:43
    163.   joeldtaylor
    1. Robinson 1951
    2. Piazza 1997
    3. Beltre 2004
    4. Snider 1956
    5. Green 2002
    2006-02-03 18:05:41
    164.   jeff angus
    1. Robinson 1951
    2. R. Smith 1977
    3. Brouthers 1892
    4. Reiser 1941
    5. Beltre 2004

    Very tough when crossing eras, and I only got to see two of these players at work. If I could squeeze one more on, it'd be Piazza 1997, and he's deserving, though I never sensed he really elevated a Dodger team he played for.

    2006-02-03 18:31:55
    165.   Sushirabbit
    1. Robinson 1949
    2. Gibson 1988
    3. Piazza 1997
    4. Duke Snider 1955
    5. Robinson 1951

    I had a real hard time with the middle three. I think Snider needs more recognition, but I've heard so many things said about Gibson in 1988. And I saw/heard so much of 1997.

    I learn so much from everybody. This place really is amazing!

    2006-02-03 19:12:54
    166.   gvette
    1. Robinson 1949
    2. Wills 1962
    3. Gibson 1988
    4. Piazza 1997
    5. Guerrero 1985

    Beltre would be on the list if there weren't "questions" lingering about his breakout year. Piazza and Guerrero were the most dominating Dodger hitters I ever saw.

    Wynn '74 started out that way, but once he hurt his right elbow in mid season, he was never the same player.

    2006-02-04 09:15:20
    167.   Jay Jaffe
    1. Robinson 1949
    2. Snider 1955
    3. Guerrero 1985
    4. Campanella 1953
    5. Beltre 2004

    Man, Pedro in 1985 was just amazing to behold. I'd love to find room for Piazza, Gibson, Wynn, Reiser, and Reese in here, but it's a tough call.

    2006-02-04 09:43:52
    168.   Spageticus
    1. Duke Snider, 1955
    2. Jackie Robinson, 1949
    3. Mike Piazza, 1997
    4. Babe Herman, 1930
    5. Kirk Gibson, 1988

    Regards to Campy in 1951 (considering position)

    2006-02-04 10:02:43
    169.   scareduck
    1. Jackie Robinson, 1949
    2. Mike Piazza, 1997
    3. Jackie Robinson, 1951
    4. Roy Campanella, 1951
    5. Roy Campanella, 1953

    Voting a straight WARP-3 ticket. Boring, I know.

    2006-02-04 10:57:47
    170.   mrybill
    1. Snider 1955
    2. T. Davis 1962
    3. Robinson 1949
    4. Guerrero 1985
    5. Wynn 1974

    Criterion: Team had to make the post-season (including playoffs), so no Piazza '97. Great year though.
    Other notes: 1) I know many people consider Wills the MVP of the '62 team but I just think Davis' year was one of the great unappreciated seasons of all time. 2) I think Wynn was more instrumental getting the '74 team past a great Reds outfit than was Gibson getting the '88 team to the postseason. I've always thought Gibson got more credit than he deserved.

    2006-02-04 11:31:27
    171.   mrybill
    I didn't read other's lists before I posted mine, hoping to avoid impure thoughts. :)
    I have gone back and looked now and I must say I am surprised how much attention Piazza '97 is getting. While I thought at the time, and still think, that he should have been NL MVP (Walker? in Colorado?) that year, losing to the hated Giants in a year they should have dominated is a big negative for the franchise. 1997 was more that just "not reaching the playoffs" - it allowed the Giants, who had finished last (with Bonds) the previous two years, to become the nemesis they have remained pretty much 'til now. So for me, NO representative of that team should be considered an "all-time Dodger MVP".
    2006-02-04 11:49:05
    172.   Daniel Zappala
    170 One of my criteria was also that the team should have made the post-season. With extra bonus points for a World Series championship. I ended up with Snider tops too.
    2006-02-04 12:41:51
    173.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    I have already voted, so I'm just pointing out my preferred method of looking at things statistically. Let's say you want to value EQA and WARP-3 about the same. So I took the percentage of those achievements against the leader (or could have been any fixed number), and then avereged the two averages.

    Since Piazza's '97 season was tops on the list in EQA and Robinson's '51 season leads in WARP-3, but because Piazza's EQA performance was far above Robinson's, he leads the list. Wills in '62 built up only 74% of of the top performances, and becomes last on that list. Here the result:

    Rank: Player :Year: EQA %: WARP-3%: (EQA%+WARP3%)/2
    1: Mike Piazza: 1997: 100%: 96%: 98%
    2: Jackie Robinson: 1951: 92%: 100%: 96%
    3: Jackie Robinson: 1949: 91%: 95%: 93%
    4: Roy Campanella: 1951: 91%: 91%: 91%
    5: Duke Snider: 1955: 94%: 88%: 91%
    6: Duke Snider: 1956: 92%: 89%: 91%
    7: Roy Campanella: 1953: 90%: 91%: 91%
    8: Adrian Beltre: 2004: 92%: 88%: 90%
    9: Dan Brouthers: 1892: 94%: 86%: 90%
    10: Pedro Guerrero: 1985: 98%: 82%: 90%
    11: Jackie Robinson: 1952: 92%: 86%: 89%
    12: Mike Piazza: 1996: 94%: 81%: 88%
    13: Pete Reiser: 1941: 93%: 81%: 87%
    14: Mike Piazza: 1993: 89%: 83%: 86%
    15: Lefty O'Doul: 1932: 94%: 77%: 86%
    16: Shawn Green: 2002: 90%: 79%: 85%
    17: Gary Sheffield: 2000: 97%: 72%: 85%
    18: Gil Hodges: 1954: 87%: 81%: 84%
    19: Dolph Camilli: 1941: 93%: 76%: 85%
    20: Jimmy Wynn: 1974: 88%: 79%: 84%
    21: Kirk Gibson: 1988: 92%: 75%: 84%
    22: Duke Snider: 1953: 93%: 74%: 84%
    23: Duke Snider: 1954: 96%: 71%: 84%
    24: Jimmy Sheckard: 1901: 91%: 74%: 83%
    25: Pedro Guerrero: 1982: 90%: 74%: 82%
    26: Mike Piazza: 1995: 95%: 70%: 83%
    27: Ron Cey: 1975: 85%: 78%: 82%
    28: Reggie Smith: 1977: 94%: 69%: 82%
    29: Shawn Green: 2001: 91%: 72%: 82%
    30: Babe Herman: 1930: 95%: 65%: 80%
    31: Pee Wee Reese: 1949: 82%: 78%: 80%
    32: Zack Wheat: 1924: 91%: 65%: 78%
    33: Tommy Davis: 1962: 89%: 64%: 77%
    34: Steve Garvey: 1975: 83%: 70%: 77%
    35: Maury Wills: 1962: 81%: 67%: 74%

    Interesting how Robinson, Campy and Snider take the next six spots, and then we see Beltre again.

    I didn't use this approach at all when I cast my ballot, but I might have changed a few things had I done so. It just makes Robinson's '51 season and Piazza's '97 season so much more obviously the best offensive seasons by a Dodger that it can justify the votes, even if those teams didn't win the pennant.

    2006-02-04 17:29:43
    174.   Colorado Blue
    1) Jackie Robinson 1951
    2) Mike Piazza 1997
    3) Jackie Robinson 1949
    4) Roy Campanella 1951
    5) Dan "Big Dan" Brouthers 1892

    Career numbers for "Big Dan" are sublime:
    AVG. OBP. SLG.
    .342 .423 .519

    He was a Groom for only 2 years, but my goodness, what a year he had in 1892! Apparently triples were all the rage in the 19th century.

    Not bad for a 1B with 19 seasons under his belt... and, I think, a decent sample size. Consider him my "Old School" favorite.

    2006-02-04 22:28:31
    175.   jeffw
    Too many young folks here. No reflection, but this is about all-time Dodger MVPs, which includes Brooklyn. The fact is that with the exception of pitching, the LA version of the Dodgers has rarely approached the overall position playing ability of the Brooklyn version. One significant exception is the infield of the 70s.

    For example, Piazza is a great hitter, but face it, he isn't a very good catcher. I would take Campanella any day. Hodges was far better than Karros or Garvey, and Garvey was far better than Karros. Cey is the best 3B in Dodger history. Russell compares to Reese. Robinson and Wills belong here, too.

    And then there is Snider. Snider is the all-time greatest Dodger position player, and up there with Koufax for all-time period. In NY in the mid-50s, there were heated arguments as to who was best, Snider, Mays or Mantle. Guess they knew something: all three are in the HOF. What was especially good about all three was that they played CF, the toughest OF position, and they all played it at a gold glove level. And I would say that fielding plays a significant role in an MVP.

    My list:

    #1: Snider's 1954, which gets no votes, is probably his best, but the fact is, 53-55 were virtual carbon copies and you could rank any of them up there. '56 was not that good a year. '52 was better. Snider was also an RBI machine and, as noted, a great fielder. In fairness, I won't name Snider more than once, but he could get two or three of the top five.

    #2: Campanella in '53. Piazza-level hitting, but could catch. I won't name Campy more than once either, but he could get one more.

    #3: Tommy Davis in '62. Check the RBIs. Batting title, too. I don't think his RBI totals for this year have been topped since then. Maybe Sosa in one of those juiced years.

    #4: Wills, '62. An absolutely amazing year. Davis couldn't even get the MVP because of Wills's year. You could make a case for this being the all-time best year for any Dodger, any time.

    #5: Robinson, '49. Did everything. Like Wills.

    One of my favorite players, and one of the most amazing hitters I've ever seen is Pedro Guerrero. One of his years would rank in my 6-10 positioning. Garvey in '74 and Piazza in a couple of years would also be there. I would also have to put Babe Herman's 1930 in there. Based on statistics alone, he might deserve #1.

    2006-02-05 10:08:13
    176.   Nolan
    1) Piazza '97
    2) Robinson '51
    3) Gibson '88
    4) Robinson '49
    5) Beltre '04
    2006-02-05 15:49:11
    177.   Langhorne
    1) Snider 1955

    2) Robinson 1949

    3) Hodges 1954

    4) Snider 1954

    5) Davis 1962

    2006-02-05 20:02:51
    178.   norcalblue
    1) T. Davis 1962

    2) Robinson 1949

    3) Piazza 1997

    4) Beltre 2004

    5) Wills 1962

    2006-02-05 20:46:42
    179.   Chuck Henderson
    1. Piazza 1997
    2. Snider 1955
    3. Guerrero 1985
    4. Beltre 2004
    5. Herman 1930

    I understand the reasoning in ranking performance in a season relative
    to team average but prefer to think about this more in terms of
    statistically best seasons. I'm excluding the 1800's; Brouthers's
    1892 would be in contention otherwise.

    Piazza's 1997 is a clear #1. The next 4 and maybe a couple of others
    (Robinson, Sheffield) could be reordered without much difference. I'm
    also limiting my list to one appearance per player. Piazza and Snider
    might make it twice.

    I'm surprised that it took into the second day of postings for Herman
    to make anyone's list and that there are so few mentions of his 1930
    season. I've always had him in the top 5 on these lists because of
    his great numbers that year--Dodger all-time bests in hits, extra-base
    hits, and total bases (in only 152 games), and OBA, SLG, and BA. I'm
    also surprised how many votes there are for Gibson's 1988.

    2006-02-05 22:12:22
    180.   Jon Weisman
    The balloting is closed. Thanks for participating, everyone. Results Monday.

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