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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Organ Grinders
2006-02-18 11:51
by Jon Weisman

Having grown too old to make it worth being marginalized, Phillies organist Paul Richardson is retiring, according to Randy Pennell of The Associated Press.

... when the Phillies moved out of Veterans Stadium two years ago, they scrapped the organ booth. Instead of a prime spot down the first base line in the new park, he was relegated to the concourse, playing only about an hour before the game. No longer plugged into the PA system, his audience had dwindled from the thousands in the seats to the few who happened to stroll by. He couldn't even see the field anymore.

His presence in the concourse was still rewarding; aging church organists could take a turn at the keyboard and get their picture taken with him. But he had to pack up around the seventh inning - right around the time one of his taped versions of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" started playing.

The article mentions Dodger organist Nancy Bea Hefley, whom the Dodgers have de-keyed to such a great extent that she no longer even wants to work every game.

She considered retiring last year but decided to stick around after negotiating a deal that would allow her to take a few games off.

"It's kind of difficult when you're a musician and you're cut back to barely playing," she says. "It does take a toll on the ego."

I hate this. Organ music is better at a ballgame than blaring recorded music. It just is. It's not because I'm some sort of head-in-the-sand traditionalist. One fits, the other chafes and grates.

Comments (220)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-02-18 11:57:55
1.   Bob Timmermann
I say let's all chip and let Nancy Bea Hefley play the organ at Disney Hall.
2006-02-18 12:03:42
2.   das411
The worst part is, all the $$ they saved probably went to Tomas Perez and Mike Lieberthal.
2006-02-18 12:23:59
3.   Bob Timmermann
My ears were bruised and battered and I couldn't tell
What I heard
It was unrecognizable to my ear
I heard a din in a stadium I didn't know
My own ears
Oh brother are you gonna leave me
Blasted away
In the stadium in Philadelphia
2006-02-18 12:30:18
4.   D4P
Does anyone know the rationale behind such changes? Is it strictly a cost-cutting move (do organists make that much money...?), or is it an effort to make baseball more "relevant" to Generation Xers by blaring "their kind" of music?
2006-02-18 12:33:23
5.   Sam DC
there are few things that bum me out more than sitting at a ballgame with my kid while he cringes and crams his hands over his ears during the music.

now i'll admit he's pretty sensitive to loud noises, but the crowd never sends him diving under his seat. Just Walk This Way (so clever . . .)

2006-02-18 12:48:01
6.   Andrew Shimmin
In the spirit of 5, maybe my favorite story of the year:

2006-02-18 12:49:24
7.   Bob Timmermann
Cost of recorded music = Annual check to ASCAP to pay royalties

Cost of organ music = Annual check to ASCAP to pay royalties + per game fee for organist

2006-02-18 12:54:08
8.   Icaros

I'd like to wear one of those things around my neck.

2006-02-18 13:34:47
9.   Linkmeister
Garages in Silicon Valley, move over. The inventor of that gadget Andrew's story tells about was:

"Working in his bedroom in Merthyr Tydfil"

2006-02-18 13:54:57
10.   Marty
It sounds like Philly is at least playing taped organ music rather than washed-up 70's-80's rock bands (I'm looking you, or at least your headstone, Freddie Mercury).

If we could vote to ban "Walk this Way", "We Will Rock You" "Welcome to the Jungle", "Day-O" from being played I almost wouldn't mind any other taped music.

2006-02-18 14:00:34
11.   Andrew Shimmin
10- Chicken dance? That's the one I hate most.
2006-02-18 14:06:28
12.   Linkmeister
"Who Let the Dogs Out?"

Speaking of, I wonder if that escaped whippet from Westminster has turned up yet.

2006-02-18 14:14:31
13.   Vishal
6, 8 - it's too bad they don't have a similar device to repel the cheerlessly middle-aged.
2006-02-18 14:27:05
14.   Icaros

I'd really like one that repels everyone but me.

I could take it to Disneyland and never have to wait in line.

2006-02-18 14:27:18
15.   King of the Hobos
10 If "Welcome to the Jungle" were banned, what would Gagne use? They could play it on the organ, although I'm not sure it would make the transition well, if at all
2006-02-18 14:33:13
16.   dsfan
Not to take away from the Organ Grinders discussion, but I'm curious to know if anyone's as pessimistic about the team's health as I am.

I've often read that last year's injury barrage was an extreme deviation from the norm. This year, it's often said, the Dodgers must be improved simply because they can't possibly suffer as many injuries as they did in 2006.

I just don't buy that assumpution, because it you take a look at this 25-man roster, it's chock full of fragile players. It requires little imagination to envision this team imploding like the last one did.

Really, would anyone be surprised to see Drew, Werth, Cruz, Lofton and Ledee make at least one visit to the DL this year? With its OF alone the Dodgers could lose 200 games to the DL.

Turning to the infield, how about Mueller, Furcal, Izturis and Nomar? Put a yellow flag next to Furcal and Kent. Put a red flag next to Izzy. Oh yeah, Saenz. He's still exhausted from last year. Give him a yellow flag, too.

The backup catcher is Sandy Alomar. Red flag, which isn't a bad thing.

Now the starting rotation: O. Perez's idea of conditioning is to quaff a few El Presidente beers. He's become more and more fragile in his 20s and his pitching with a recon. elbow. Now he appparently will attempt to pitch in some patriot exhibition games. Give him a red flag.

It's encouraging that Penny lost weight and is off to a good start, but he still gets a yellow flag. No one seems sure why his biceps nerve flared up the way it did, but some of the early theories on such injuries is that's the sign of bad things to come for the labrum.

Gagne? Red flag. Bright side: He's a Boras client in a contract year -- see Drew and Beltre two years ago.

Brazoban? Red flag if you believe the stuff coming out of the D.R.

Wunsch? Coming off surgery. Yellow flag.

It's amazing how few of these players project as durable. Have faith, Choi fans -- your guy could be one of the few healthy players.

2006-02-18 14:44:16
17.   deburns
Does anyone else remember Gladys Goodding (correct spelling) from Ebbetts Field? And Shorty Lareese (not sure of spelling) and the Dodger SymPhony Band, serenading opposing batters back to the dugout after a strikeout? That was fun; now we have cacophony. And "Follow the Dodgers" after the game, much better than the current ____ (which I will not characterize for fear of breaking some rule of decorum.
2006-02-18 14:47:43
18.   scareduck
10 - add Rock And Roll, Part 2 to that list. Gary Glitter must have made a ton off that. Too bad about the pedophilia charges. I understand it's a capital offense in Vietnam...

2006-02-18 14:57:48
19.   D4P
If "Welcome to the Jungle" were banned, what would Gagne use?

Cue Aretha: "R-E-S-P-E-C-T, Find out what it means to me"

2006-02-18 15:03:06
20.   trainwreck
Jose Cruz Jr comes out to "Would?" by Alice In Chains, which is the best song any player uses in my opinion.
2006-02-18 15:10:16
21.   Jon Weisman
16 - Have I not been saying this?

You exaggerate about a couple of people - Saenz, for example - and I do hope the Dodgers have better luck this year. And better luck can happen. But better luck is what it would be.

2006-02-18 15:13:54
22.   oldbear
I think loud music is designed to create atmosphere and tension at a ball game. Instead of the leisurely, friendly, care-free baseball game of years gone by... They want to make baseball more intense, competitive, and I suppose each game more meaningful.

At least the loud music should discourage cell phone use at baseball games.

2006-02-18 15:18:03
23.   scareduck
16, 21 - I agree about Saenz, he doesn't wear well and he's aging, too. He's really a DH but he plays for an NL team. And maybe it's just me, but I haven't gotten the feeling -- maybe because I'm misreading you or not reading closely or often enough -- that you were especially concerned about injuries this year.
2006-02-18 15:19:17
24.   oldbear
16. I'm more pessimistic about the overall talent level, than the overall health. Talent you can control. Health you cant.

Mueller and Nomar have missed more games the last several years than most anyone on our team. How could you have left them off your injury flag report?

2006-02-18 15:45:13
25.   dsfan
Old Bear,

Sorry, I mentioned Mueller and Nomar in the infield intro and forgot to get back to them because there were so many other fragile Dodgers to mention.

Give Nomar a bright red flag with a crutch emblem on it.

Mueller gets a yellow.

Choi, Aybar and maybe Repko are about the only position guys I'd give a green. Maybe Navarro, too, but he reputedly has struggled with conditioning. Furcal is green-yellow for me. He's fairly young and has been durable. But he's coming off surgery and a salary-drive year.

All in all, a pretty scary medical picture and I can't say the recent work of the medical staff tempers my pessimism.

2006-02-18 15:51:05
26.   dsfan

I'm kind of like Duck on this one -- didn't get the impression you were pessimistic about this team's health but hadn't followed it that closely. I was referring to the many team previews by MSM and bloggers and others.

2006-02-18 16:02:24
27.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
The organ is one of those things that tie me to the way it used to be, as when I was a kid, that was the only music heard.

I believe the move towards recorded music is about trying to appeal to younger fans, kids in their teens, etc.

But it'll be a sad day when they dispense with it entirely. There's something peculiar and delightful when they play the Mexican Hat Dance after the 7th.

I was there one time with some friends, sitting way up in the upper reserved section (blue seats, now turqouise). This one friend was more or less bored / zoned out and tired. It's the end of the 7th, and they start playing it. Buh-dum buh-dum buh-dum, ba da-da-da-da da-dum. (Clap clap) Buh-dum buh-dum buh-dum, ba da-da-da-da da-dum. (Clap clap).

I look over, and he's absent mindedly clapping along... Just perfect.

2006-02-18 16:07:34
28.   King of the Hobos
Not sure how many people would care other than Nate, but it seems Penny and Lowe might be having a beard-off to decide who the opening day starter is
(there's a better picture of Penny in the photo gallery, but I can't link to it)

2006-02-18 16:17:24
29.   Andrew Shimmin
28- They both seem to abjure the neck hair part of the perfect Mountian Man beard. I guess any beard is a good beard, but both of these have a pretty-boy quality to them. I'm not impressed.
2006-02-18 16:29:08
30.   Jon Weisman
23, 26 - Well, the SI column this week mentions that the team is no better insured against injuries than they were last year (except for the fact that the prospects are a year closer to being contributors). The "Outfield Gaps" post from three days ago raised health concerns. And like may others, I've questioned whether Nomar will make it through the year.

I haven't talked as much about the pitching, and I'm more concerned about Kent just declining than being hurt. The seriousness of Furcal's knee problems, I'm still unclear about.

I may not be as pessimistic as you, but no, the team isn't out of the woods healthwise. There will just be the illusion of more depth because more real prospects are in AAA.

2006-02-18 16:31:26
31.   Jon Weisman
Let me rephrase that - there will be more depth this year, but there will be the illusion that Colletti was better prepared, when really he'll just have the advantage of being the prospects being a year closer - just as DePo would have had if he had been retained.
2006-02-18 16:35:14
32.   Uncle Miltie
28- definitely not a Matt Morris quality beard though
2006-02-18 16:36:58
33.   Fallout
I'll take this team over the nothingness they had B4 the signings.
2006-02-18 16:47:33
34.   Formerly R
When I arrive at the ballpark, few things get me more excited about the game than the organ music. It's the sound of baseball. It instantly gets you in the mood.

When you arrive at the park and hear piped in contemporary rock or hip hop, the experience becomes bland, boring, less distinctive. You could be going to one of a thousand different places. The mall, a bar, the beach. You can hear that junk anywhere.

Ah, but the organ...

When you're walking toward the stadium and you first begin hearing Nancy Bea jauntily playing a Gershwin or Rodgers and Hart classic, you know the peanuts, hot dogs, and the slow rhythmic cracking of BP is just moments away.

Nothing like it.

2006-02-18 16:54:04
35.   Bob Timmermann
You know what I want when I get to a baseball game? Bland music. And on the scoreboard, I want to a see cycle of ads alternating with lame sports trivia questions. Then before the game starts, we can see previews of upcoming games.
2006-02-18 16:54:49
36.   Fallout
34. Formerly R


2006-02-18 17:01:21
37.   Bob Timmermann
Back in the old days when I had a dialup connection and Napster existed to violate copyright laws, I used it to download a song I heard at Dodger Stadium being played while Ismael Valdes (back when he used the "s") was warming up.

So I will be able to tell future generations that "Who Will Buy?" from "Oliver!" was the first mp3 I ever stole.

Sniff. Sniff.

2006-02-18 17:04:58
38.   Andrew Shimmin
35- Even better, previews of upcoming television shows with the star of that show throwing out the first pitch, and a promotional beverage sleave give away after the game.

I know Steve likes the Earl show, but I've not forgiven it, yet, for that introduction.

2006-02-18 17:15:08
39.   Bob Timmermann
Steve has always struck me as more of a "Yes, Dear" fan.
2006-02-18 17:19:40
40.   Suffering Bruin
37 "Music and jobs for $200, Alex."

"The answer is... the most likely profession of one who's first napster song is "Who Will Buy?" from Oliver."

"What is a libarary employee?" :)

I'm taking a break from lesson planning (oh, the joy). Some of you know I'm a teacher and now I can report I'm a recent convert to hip-hop. I've been listening to it frequently because that's what my "kids" are listening to and what can I say, they got me hooked.

I guarantee you that if hip-hop was played between innings at baseball games, the crowds of young people at the ballpark would increase by a lot. The most popular sport amongst the kids is basketball, football and soccer. I don't know where baseball ranks.

I'm not arguing for it. I'm just making a rambling observation here. I prefer Nancy B. over the blaring rock music but if the choice were blaring rock and hip-hop, I'd prefer the stuff kids are listening to.

Back to the planning...

2006-02-18 17:20:52
41.   King of the Hobos
Ned doesn't seem that interested in signing Hochevar, which is too bad considering how our minor league pitching has been doing. Also, Osoria and Brazoban are in camp, all pitchers/catchers have reported

2006-02-18 17:59:26
42.   Andrew Shimmin
Best loved television shows of Dodger Thinkers:

Jon: Becker
Bob: According to Jim
Steve: Yes, Dear

2006-02-18 18:11:52
43.   bhsportsguy
41- I just thought of this but after all the analysis of the Hochevar situation, I know think that the Dodgers have a "Ryan Leaf" complex about him. what I mean is that given his actions during the negotiation, how coachable will he be, what will his work habits be like and can invest that much money into someone whose character they now question.

And now that have 3 draft picks with potential signing bonuses of around 3.5MM-4MM combined, I would really doubt anything happens at this point unless Boras does a complete turnaround in May.

2006-02-18 18:12:28
44.   Berkeley Doug
34 Well said -

Dodger Stadium without Nancy B is almost akin to the Doders without Vin Scully.

2006-02-18 18:16:06
45.   D4P
Heh heh.
2006-02-18 18:34:39
If we are going to reminisce about organ music, let me recall the great year of 2004.

We had the upliftment of the Adrian Beltre experience, who came up to bat to the new hit booty-shaking reggaeton music, which got us all excited. We were all dancing after he clobbered one to right center.

And then we had the more serious, low-keyness of Shawn Green's approach, who came to bat to classic pre-pubescent KROQ whining music, which made us anxious to see our hero prevail. Too bad, as we were all cursing our fates on the way to the parking lots after our hero hit into a double play with the bases loaded and one out in the bottom of the ninth.

(That actually happened, I was at the game, a great example of a bunt situation for all the pro-bunters in the world)

2006-02-18 18:38:15
47.   Andrew Shimmin
You're bunting bases loaded one out, bottom of the ninth and losing? Even if you're pro-bunt, you don't have to be that pro-bunt.
2006-02-18 18:47:24
Im not pro-bunt, but if its Shawn Green, Im bunting. All we needed was one run, and for all the money hes getting paid, hed better run hard.
2006-02-18 18:50:17
49.   Bob Timmermann
Bunting with the bases loaded is a losing proposition since it's a force play at home. You would need to have a skilled bunter and a fast runner at third. And you must be hoping that the player can't even hit the ball out of the infield.
2006-02-18 18:51:41
50.   Sam DC
48 Wouldn't you have needed two runs?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-02-18 19:20:20
Im not advocating bunting in that situation generally. It was just that Green was in one of his major slumps and we were down by one run, and if I remember the game correctly, they brought in a LOOGY to face him. I understand the force situation, but the point is to trade an out for a run, or just get to the next batter. A sac fly would be nice but not likely. Why not drop a bunt and force the defense to make a more difficult play?
2006-02-18 19:21:16
52.   Fallout
1-2-3, game over.
2006-02-18 19:28:12
Yeah, I know, it just seems a more difficult play. Youre right though, I just have bitterness towards experiencing that game, since I had a prescience towards the groundout double play happening.

While Im here, Id like to point out that a historic sporting event is taking place next month in California:

February 12, 2006; New York, NY….Twenty-seven year-old prodigy, Josh "The Punk" Thomson (10-1), will square off with fellow 154 pound contender, Clayton Guida (19-2), for the inaugural Strikeforce mixed martial arts lightweight championship during "Shamrock vs. Gracie," California's historic, first mixed martial arts fight card that will take place at San Jose's HP Pavilion on Friday, March 10th.

"People are gonna see a fast-paced fight from me. I'm gonna be very explosive," said Thomson, a resident of San Jose and a former wrestling standout at National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Division I powerhouse, Stanford University. "I throw a lot of funky, weird stuff that not a lot of fans have seen before."

For all those who feel that ESPN and the establishment are ignorant to reality, know that despite their closed mindedness, MMA is the sport of the near future. Since California is somewhat of the crossroads for the sport, the legilization of the sport in our great state will be a moment of a frution. In the next decade, this sport will become large and mainstream in the US, but for now, we can enjoy this incipent stage of the sport's development. For those who attend, there will be the sense that you will be able to look back on a moment of historical significance in sport.

2006-02-18 19:32:09
54.   Bob Timmermann
The game in question was July 9, 2004

Houston beat the Dodgers 3-2.

It was not a LOOGY pitching, it was Brad Lidge.

Izturis led off with a bunt single. Jose Hernandez then struck out trying to bunt. Paul Lo Duca walked. Jason Grabowski batted for Guillermo Mota and walked to load the bases. Shawn Green then bounced into a 1-2-3 DP to end the game.

That was the only win for the Astros over the Dodgers in 2004.

2006-02-18 19:34:32
And Arnold is a big fan.

2006-02-18 19:36:03
Well, judging by that inning, the best approach was either to bunt or just take pitches until you walked.

Thanks for finding the game, I couldnt remember the opponent and thought it was in June.

2006-02-18 19:42:58
57.   Vishal
well, there goes cal's NCAA tourney bid. arizona state, for crying out loud. and at home, no less. sigh.
2006-02-18 20:30:59
58.   Bob Timmermann
Don't you wish you could have been at the WSU-Oregon game.

This is from the AP story:

Both teams were started off the game ice-cold -- the score was 1-1 until the 12:27 mark of the first half.

Oregon won 67-37.

2006-02-18 20:53:28
59.   the OZ
54 - I was at that game with a business associate from the UK who had very little knowledge of baseball, but was very excited to see a game.

During pregame warmups, he would excitedly marvel at the "tremendous accuracy" of the outfielders as they threw long-toss to each other.

2006-02-18 21:03:24
60.   ToyCannon
I guess I'm the only person here who dislikes the organ and will not shed a tear when it goes the way of the buffalo head nickle. Didn't like it when I was 12 and have continued to dislike it for the last 35 years. The music played at DS would sound a little better if they put a little money into the sound system. If the 3 Tenors can make DS move then ACDC could do the same with the right sound system.

Adam Morrison is my favorite basketball player on my favorite team. That doesn't happen very often. Does anybody's favorite baseball player play for the Dodgers? Piazza was the last player who was my favorite player who also played for the Dodgers. Beltre was close but was never my favorite player just my favorite Dodger.
B Giles
A Jones
J Edmunds
D Ortiz
Griffey - still

Those are all players I still switch my TV to when they are playing.

2006-02-18 21:06:53
61.   D4P
Does anybody's favorite baseball player play for the Dodgers?

Hee Seop Choi! Hee Seop Choi! Hee Seop Choi!

Check that: Hee doesn't actually play for the Dodgers...

2006-02-18 21:37:01
62.   Vishal
[61] i think hee seop is my favorite position player. he's the one i enjoy rooting for the most.
2006-02-18 21:43:52
63.   das411
I don't know how intimidating Trevor Hoffman would be if "Hells Bells" were played on an organ every time he came in...the others like Gagne, Mariano The Great, Wagner, etc would most likely have the same problem.

60 - J. D. Drew is my favorite player!!

--everybody's sarcasm detectors explode--

2006-02-18 21:58:27
64.   D4P
There aren't really many options other than Choi.
2006-02-18 22:12:13
65.   Suffering Bruin
I'm with 61 with the funny and 62 I agree with wholeheartedly... which happens often.

In thirty odd years of following the Dodgers, Mike Piazza was the closest thing I had to an all-time favorite player. I used to think of Piazza the same way that my brother, a huge Denver Bronco fan, thought of John Elway. With Elway gone, my brother doesn't follow the Broncos with the same enthusiasm he used to. Piazza was amazing but even with him gone, my love for the Dodgers did not wane. It has been tested severely but it does not wane.

2006-02-18 22:18:55
66.   D4P
My favorite Dodgers have included:

Pedro G.

2006-02-18 22:35:26
67.   ScoobyGoo

That was the only game I went to in the '04 buddies were hoping for atleast a Shawn Green strike out where as I, being the ever so optimistic one (how times have changed...), convinced myself he would atleast pull a double...

Man, you guys should have heard the things people were saying about him when leaving the stadium...I'd repeat a few but I don't think I'm allowed to...

2006-02-18 22:40:22
68.   Robert Fiore
I would imagine Eric Gagne was at least a favorite player of some fans, but 60 is basically right about the general lack of baseball charisma on the current roster. Garciaparra was probably the favorite player of at least some fans a few years back, but of course much less so now. "Effective but faceless" would characterize most of the better Dodgers right now. This is, however, a transitional roster, and what kind of major league personality the prospects will have remains to be seen.

I am of the generation that still thinks of Helen Dell as the Dodger Stadium organist, though honestly I think both she and Nancy Hefley were/are pretty insipid. I prefer the hearty "Roll Out the Barrel" school to the Carpenters Songbook approach. On the other hand, I find the current canned music soundscape overbearing, cliched, derivitive, tasteless and idiotic, and it literally keeps me from attending ballgames in person. It just boils my blood.

2006-02-18 22:47:31
69.   D4P
"Effective but faceless" would characterize most of the better Dodgers right now.

That's pretty much how I would characterize the DePodesta era. "Fan-friendliness" was not a high priority for Paul.

2006-02-18 22:51:43
70.   Andrew Shimmin
I like the organ but am indifferent to Nancy B. In fact, I think McCourt could please everybody if the games went to exclusively organ music, but with Sly Stone playing it. Right? Everybody'd be happy with that, wouldn't they? I would.
2006-02-18 22:53:14
71.   D4P
Sly Stalone on the organ would be a bit rocky and over the top.
2006-02-18 23:24:04
72.   Bob Timmermann
I think we should all just sit in the stands and sing songs like "Tessie" to entertain ourselves.
2006-02-19 00:27:27
73.   das411
72 - Is this part of the 2003 Red Sox reconstruction plan? Or could other songs from MVP 2K5 be included too?
2006-02-19 00:41:26
74.   Andrew Shimmin
Time for my weekly gripe about C-Span's Book Club series. Jeez! Nickel and Dimed? People are still talking about Nickel and Dimed? It was garbage when it came out, and it hasn't aged well. If you want to read a book about poor people, and you don't care if it's old, why not pick The Road to Wiggan Pier?
2006-02-19 01:02:47
75.   overkill94
No mention of John Sickels unveiling his
Dodgers top 20 prospects today? Forgive me if someone already posted it when they received his book.

1. Chad Billingsley - A-
2. Joel Guzman - A-
3. Andy Laroche - B+
4. Jonathan Broxton - B+
5. Russell Martin - B+
6. Scott Elbert - B+
7. Blake Dewitt - B+
8. Chin-Lung Hu - B
9. Andre Ethier - B
10. Justin Orenduff - B
11. Tony Abreu - B-
12. Delwyn Young - B-
13. Travis Denker - B-
14. Matt Kemp - B-
15. Blake Johnson - B-
16. Hong Chi Kuo - B-
17. James Loney - C+
18. Justin Ruggiano - C+
19. Anthony Raglani - C+
20. Josh Wall - C+

Seems like Kemp's way too low and Dewitt's a bit high, any thoughts?

2006-02-19 02:14:24
76.   bhsportsguy
75- Baseball America has the same top 7, I think the consenus has been that Dewitt can hit and should be able to move 2nd due to Laroche at 3B. Both Sickels and BA love his swing.

Kemp was ranked 8th in BA and Sickels' concern is his strike zone judgment. BA is already sold and Sickels need to see him improve in Jacksonville.

Kemp may get some ABs in Vero since he was a non-roster invitee, so we can all take a look at Kemp, Ethier, Delwyn Young and maybe Guzman during the early spring games and for sure the B games.

2006-02-19 09:01:20
77.   oldbear
75. I think Hu is too high and Ruggiano is too low.

Isnt Hu another no-hit, no-walk, no-power, slap hitting Izturis clone?

Why would he even be mentioned in the top 8 of our prospects?

2006-02-19 09:04:10
78.   Bob Timmermann
So in which room of the house did Barbara Ehrenreich write "Nickel and Dimed"?
2006-02-19 10:03:55
79.   King of the Hobos
77 Hu has a little more power (10-15 homers a year is not unreasonable for him), but other than that, he is very similar to Izturis. His defense is suppose to be really good, and that's why everyone likes him so much

From Tony Jackson's article: Brazoban has declined to be in the WBC, and only Miller and Houlton remain unsigned on the 40 man roster

2006-02-19 10:21:38
80.   Linkmeister
From a WaPo Olympics blog:

"The Yankees and Dodgers seem to be the most popular American sports teams in Turin, based on hats and jackets. And I'm talking all sports, NBA, NFL, PBA, whatever. That Dodgers thing surprised me."

2006-02-19 10:23:38
81.   Andrew Shimmin
78- The clip they played of her, to set up the Book Club segment, didn't include that. But, my guess: a room with lots of mirrors (while most of the book was sketchy, she really painted quite the picture of herself), and excellent ventilation (assuming her reason for worrying over the drug tests was the same as Jeff Weaver's).

The room the brave book discussers were in looked like every public library side room I've ever been in. The panel was eight old ladies (of varying degrees of crotchetiness), one old guy who didn't talk, two middle aged women, one of whom was the brave leader, and a middle aged guy who really, really, wanted to talk about gentrification. The which, he insisted, was properly called REgentrification.

2006-02-19 10:53:00
82.   Andrew Shimmin
It was ten years earlier when she appeared on Booknotes (to plug Fear of Failing). At that time:

LAMB: Talk about how you write. Where do you write?

EHRENREICH: Where do I write? I write in a basement room just because that's the room where there's space at a computer and it's cluttered. Very cluttered.

(So, maybe she had the mirrors and ventilation system installed later)

2006-02-19 10:57:58
83.   Andrew Shimmin
Fear of Falling, actually.
2006-02-19 11:16:18
84.   MartinBillingsley31
My top 10, only in my opinion.

1. Chad Billingsley
2. Joel Guzman
3. Andy Laroche
4. Jonathan Broxton
5. Russell Martin
6. Scott Elbert
7. Justin Orenduff
8. Delwyn Young
9. Matt Kemp
10. Hong Chi Kuo(injury prone why so low)

2006-02-19 11:18:44
85.   MartinBillingsley31
Why does Hu allways end up being in the top 10, he's a slap hitter, an izturis clone with barely more power.
2006-02-19 11:20:32
86.   MartinBillingsley31
Loney reminds me of mark grace, not enough power, not enough obp, alot of contact(average).
2006-02-19 11:52:47
87.   MartinBillingsley31
For 86

I worded that post bad, Grace actually had obp.
Loney reminds me of grace in the sense of great defense great batting average not enough power.

The diffence between the 2 is obp.

2006-02-19 12:03:14
88.   dsfan
Twelve years from now, we'll look back and say Matt Kemp had the best major league career of any of these Dodgers prospects.

I'm probably alone in that view. There are probably 5-7 other Dodgers prospects that most analysts would take over him.

I also believe Willy Aybar -- in the right organization -- has a 40 percent chance to stick as a pretty good 3B and a 75 percent chance to stick as a good utility man. Doubt this is the right organization for Willy, though (I'm not sold him at 2B while acknowledging that his bat profiles better there).

I'd put Abreu in my Top 10. His defensive skill is undervalued (not unusual when prospects are rated).

As for Hu being likened to Izturis, there are far worse comparisons for a young SS.

Major league personnel regarded Izzy as not a pretty good SS but a very good SS -- before the injuries of last year. Without him the 2004 LAD do not win the NL West. The medical reports on his elow, to be sure, are disconcerting.

If James Loney has the career that Mark Grace did, he should be very grateful.

2006-02-19 12:15:58
89.   MartinBillingsley31
I don't expect loney to obp anywhere near mark grace, he'll be a mark grace without getting on base anywhere near mark grace.

If that makes any sense.

2006-02-19 12:16:27
90.   Harpo the Bum
>> there's a better picture of Penny in the photo gallery, but I can't link to it <<

Is this the one you meant?

2006-02-19 12:22:47
91.   fimple
BP's PECOTA likes Hu a lot. Figures he's already a little better than a healthy Izturis. Think it's the extra power, plus a little more propensity to walk.
2006-02-19 12:40:44
92.   King of the Hobos
90 That would be the one. The one I posted from Yahoo had shadows interferring so it was hard to see the beard clearly. But as that picture shows, Penny still has a long ways to go before he can beat someone like Morris. The Dodgers could really use a bearded duo, but I have this bad feeling that a razor is in Penny's and/or Lowe's future
2006-02-19 13:32:45
93.   Spageticus
Here's to hearing the timeless 'My Humps' and the instant classic 'I'm In Love (Wit A Stripper)' over the Dodger Stadium PA in 2006!
2006-02-19 13:41:40
94.   blue2thebone
I'm afraid Loney is going to turn out to be more like Travis Lee than Mark Grace.
2006-02-19 13:49:35
95.   MartinBillingsley31

For some reason i couldn't think of a great defense, good batting average, average to below average obp, below average slugging 1b.

That's going to be loney in a nutshell.

2006-02-19 14:39:57
96.   King of the Hobos
It seems as though Bonds will call it quits after this season.

2006-02-19 14:41:30
97.   King of the Hobos
96 Bob did beat me to the news, easily. I just figured the 3 of you that don't read the Griddle might be interested. And I have this feeling that could impact the Dodgers...
2006-02-19 14:43:13
98.   natepurcell
For some reason i couldn't think of a great defense, good batting average, average to below average obp, below average slugging 1b.

doug MCcaveithezzzksdhdkl

anyways. hu is different from izzy. he hits for more power, and will probably hit for a higher average. he plays great defense. Some of the people here undervalue the importance of MIF defense. but whatever.

sickels list is fine. Ruggianno should be a B-, just like in the book. Even though he hit well last year, shouldnt everyone be concerned about the extremely high k rate? he was also 23 yrs old, which is old for the FSL and a little old for the southern league. if his k rate was lower, i would be more convinced his numbers were not a fluke.

and for HS pitchers or college pitchers. There have been recent studies done that the difference between successes of either are really not that extreme. But yea for the #7 pick, i want the best available HS pitcher. i guess im in the high cieling, prep camp.

theres a great billingsley article in the dailynews. everyone should read it. jon should link it as an update.

ps: i am not impressed by pennys and lowes beards. very pretty boy, not enough rugged woodsmen to it. I guess thats what hollywood will do to ya.

2006-02-19 14:46:14
99.   D4P
"I want to play this year out, hopefully win, and once the season is over, go home and be with my family. Maybe then everybody can just forget about me."

You got it Barry.

2006-02-19 15:31:44
100.   overkill94
I'm disappointed that the Dodgers' last home game vs. the Giants is August 13th, I would've liked to have had a game later in the season to boo the crap out of him. Maybe I'll have to make a road trip to SF to really let him have it.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-02-19 15:40:31
101.   ToyCannon
For once I agree with you. Having seen Kemp play in the AFL he was easily the most impressive of the Dodger prospects and one of the most impressive outfielders considering his age. Taking into account how little baseball he's actually played I think his ceiling is very high. Still holding out hope that JdT becomes worthy of his name. Not convinced that LaRoche will be any better then Crede.

They say Hu is the best defensive SS in the minors. Add a nice average and some pop and you might have Rafy Furcal in 3 years. That is who I've heard a scout compare him to.

2006-02-19 15:52:54
102.   D4P
Q: Who's on first?
A: Hee.
Q: Who?
A: No, Hu's at shortstop.
Q: Who's at shortstop?
A: Hu.
Q: That's what I'm asking.
A: What?
Q: Who's at shortstop.
A: That's right. Who's at shortstop. Hee's at first.
Q: He who?
A: No. Hee's at first, Hu's at shortstop.
2006-02-19 16:08:12
103.   dsfan

Well, if you agree with me then I retract my statement. Just kidding.

2006-02-19 16:11:01
104.   dsfan
I understand the parameters of these prospects lists but they tend to undersell Willy Aybar. He's got a pretty good chance of helping a major league club for a long time. He does a lot of things fairly well. He's shown he can stay healthy and deal with the long season. And he's still young.
2006-02-19 16:38:14
105.   Andrew Shimmin
And he's still young.

No, he's not Young; Young's at second. Hu knows where Aybar will play.

2006-02-19 17:08:26
106.   Steve
42 -- The lowest kind of smear campaign.
2006-02-19 17:15:42
107.   D4P
Yet the funniest kind.
2006-02-19 17:25:15
108.   oldbear
K rate doesnt matter if there are enough BB's there to balance it out. Players whom work deeper into the count will always strikeout more. Strikeouts from hitters do not bother me at all as long as the BB's are there.

Pitchers picked from HS are much more likely to get injured than pitchers picked from college. Its common sense. I'd be very dissapointed if the Dodgers used the #7 pick on a high school pitcher. It would be extremely poor risk management.

If the Dodgers want a blueprint on developing top end pitching, while also not wasting signing bonuses, follow the A's plan.

2006-02-19 17:29:00
109.   natepurcell
projected #1 overall pick andrew miller pitched a very nice game today against seton hall.

a little about miller, hes a 6'7 lefty that throws heat and probably the best secondary pitch in the whole draft- an RJ-esque slider that absolutely buckles knees.

his line: 6IP 4H 0ER 1BB 9K

the criticism of miller in the past is that he has trouble harnessing his stuff and gets wild with a college career bb/9ip of 4.85. Although its "effectively wild" because his era the last two years have been 2.98 his sophmore year and 2.93 his junior year.

If miller falls to #7 and we pick him, the following things will happen:

1- my jaw will drop to the ground in utter disabelief

2- i will immediately start envisioning a 2010 mlb staff that is the best in the majors spearhaded by the righty-lefty duo of billingsley and andrew miller.

3-i will run around my block naked and hollering "dodgers rule, giants drool"

2006-02-19 17:32:46
110.   oldbear
Furcal must have aged by a few years. I remember when he was sighted for unlawful consumption his rookie year, and everyone thought it was funny because he was only 20 or something.

It turns out he was actually 23 his rookie season. And was signed by the Braves at 19, far older most other DR'ns.

2006-02-19 17:33:04
111.   Steve
i will run around my block naked and hollering "dodgers rule, giants drool"

Sounds like a scene from Porky's

2006-02-19 17:35:55
112.   natepurcell
K rate doesnt matter if there are enough BB's there to balance it out. Players whom work deeper into the count will always strikeout more. Strikeouts from hitters do not bother me at all as long as the BB's are there.

it matters in the minors. A player that hardly makes contact in the minors, while being old for their respective leagues are going to have a hell of a time making contact in the bigs.

Pitchers picked from HS are much more likely to get injured than pitchers picked from college. Its common sense.

i dont really believe that. BP and BA have both come out with recent studies showing that the risk almost the same and the difference is very small.

I'd be very dissapointed if the Dodgers used the #7 pick on a high school pitcher. It would be extremely poor risk management.

why? if that player is the BPA according to logan white and dodger scouts, why not pick him. you want the player with the most long term potential, or at least in my philosophy in the mlb draft. this is a contradiction from you. I always read you preaching about how the big league team is "safe" and not enough potential to be very good. you always say you will always take the higher risk if it means the return will be higher. why does that philsophy differ when it comes to drafting?

If the Dodgers want a blueprint on developing top end pitching, while also not wasting signing bonuses, follow the A's plan.

you mean how they drafted 3 prep pitchers in the top 5 rounds of the 2005 draft?

2006-02-19 17:39:57
113.   D4P
Sounds like a scene from Porky's

A very rewatchable scene at that.

2006-02-19 17:41:12
114.   natepurcell
hey steve i like "yes, dear" as well.

that jimmy is sure a funny character.


.............. lol.

2006-02-19 17:48:44
115.   oldbear
84. My top 10.

#1. Chad Billingsley
#2. Joel Guzman (should still play SS)
#3. Russell Martin
#4. Justin Orenduff
#5. Jonothan Broxton (should start)
#6. Justin Ruggiano
#7. Andy LaRoche (was only average at AA)
#8. Matt Kemp (should play in CF)
#9. Scott Elbert (needs more experience in order to garner a higher rating)
#10.Andre Ethier

Thats my top 10. I hope the Dodgers let Joel Guzman play SS for Vegas. The longer he stays at SS the more value he has, since there are few 30HR's caliber SS's around the majors. Move him and his value sinks.

Same thing with Jonothan Broxton. Keep him starting until he cant handle it. He's more valuable to the Dodgers pitching 180IP a year than just 80. Endurance is a concern with a guy as out of shape as Broxton, however that stuff can be corrected.

Matt Kemp-- give him CF. Its one of the few positions they can mask his poor K's to bb rate, if it doesnt improve. If you move Kemp to a corner OF spot, his value drops.

2006-02-19 17:51:53
116.   natepurcell

i dont agree with your rankings at all, but that was inevitable.

2006-02-19 17:55:14
117.   D4P
3-i will run around my block naked and hollering "dodgers rule, giants drool"

Purcey - 10 years from now you'll look back and think "What a dork I was back then."

2006-02-19 17:56:25
118.   oldbear
112. As far as the A's drafting in 2005, it was anomaly. Totally out of character for them. I doubt it happens agains, but I knew you'd bring it up.

It takes a lengthy drafting process (over several years) in order to see significant gains, just like investing. If you constantly minimize your risk by drafting college pitchers with top level picks, gradually you will come out ahead of other teams that gamble.

I suspect the A's "gambled" this past year bc of the set rotation they already have in place for the coming years. They could afford to take on higher risk since they've accumulated enough pitching wealth to sustain them should those risky picks get injured/underperform/ etc...

For a team like the Dodgers whom has little or no proven young high end starters to work with currently, it'd be best IMO to build up some pitching wealth through risk averse drafting, rather than continually risking high picks when they have no pitching wealth in the bank currently. And by pitchign wealth I mean legit proven young guys at the MLB level. The A's already have those, so they can afford to risk more in a select draft (although I still thoughtit was dumb..i understood the gamble). The Dodgers dont, so I think a risk averse strategy would benefit them much more.

2006-02-19 17:58:07
119.   Andrew Shimmin
While we're ranking things, which sort of All Star game is the worst? I think the MLB one, since it means I have to go three days without a real game. But the Pro Bowl is pretty bad, too. The NBA's is so crappy they have to show it on cable.
2006-02-19 18:01:41
120.   D4P
One of the obvious differences is that the Pro Bowl takes place after (as opposed to during) the season, when everyone has lost interest and has moved on to another sport.

Nobody watches the Pro Bowl.

2006-02-19 18:03:14
121.   King of the Hobos
118 I actually have to agree with that assessment somewhat. We have Billingsley, Orenduff, and...well, no one spectacular in AA or above (starters only). If Hochevar were to sign, then I wouldn't mind, but we need polished arms, not guys who might make the team in 2011 or 2012. Take the top non-Boras arm with the #7 pick, and go for high ceiling HS arms with 26 and 31. It's not like all the HS arms are gone by then, whereas the college arms are starting to get thin
2006-02-19 18:03:24
122.   Steve
I vote that we immediately take Icaros's "Jason Bay for Eric Gagne" rumor from The Griddle and make it the official DT rumor drumbeat of the month (year) (decade)
2006-02-19 18:08:28
123.   natepurcell
i just did a minni study of the HS and college pitchers drafted from 1999-2002, and see how many actually made it to the majors and was at least average.

josh beckett
josh girdley
robert bradley
brett myers
ty howington
jason stumm

kyle synder
barry zito
ben sheets
mike paradis

mike stodolka
matt harrington
matt wheatland
mark phillips
joseph torres

adam johnson
justin wayne
beau hale

Dewon Brazelton
Gavin Floyd
jon griffith
mike jones

josh karp
chris smith
john van beauschten
ken baugh

chris gruler
adam lowewen
clint everts
zach grienke
scott kazmir

bryan bullington
*jeff francis
joe saunders

so from 1999-2002, ive counted grienke, kazmir, brett myers,and josh beckett as successes with adam loewen and clint everts and to be determins.

so 4/20 comes out to = 20%

from 1999-2002, i would count, prior, barry zito. jeff francis and ben sheets as successes.

so that comes out to 4/15= 26%

*jeff francis went college in canada.

again the sample size is very small. but just going back and picking a random 4 years worth of draft picks, you can see the difference is pretty small. I mean, if only 3/15 of the college picks panned out, it would have equaled the same 20% of the prep pitchers.

this shows that ALL pitchers are huge risks.

2006-02-19 18:11:59
124.   natepurcell
As far as the A's drafting in 2005, it was anomaly.

whatever. it couldnt be that beane understood that HS and college pitchers were basically a wash in risks. I find it funny how you have to distort your views and justifications to fit into the "moneyball" mold.

2006-02-19 18:15:11
125.   trainwreck
Beane has said the 2005 draft was just further proof of Moneyball philosophy. College pitchers are now popular, while high school pitching is undervalued. The A's then once again take advantage of the undervalued, plus their farm system is heavy in the advanced leagues, but thin in the low minors.
2006-02-19 18:15:31
126.   Steve
If all the pitchers would just throw like Mike Marshall, this wouldn't be an issue.
2006-02-19 18:15:43
127.   King of the Hobos
123 If that study taught me anything, it's to pray that the arms aren't as bad as the 2000 arms

Still, regardless of injury, I would prefer a top college arm

2006-02-19 18:16:02
128.   natepurcell
re 118.

i understand what you are saying. this draft looks like its going to be a run on college arms in the top 5 picks. so, would you want the 4th or 5th best rated college picher or the top rated HS pitcher with the 7th pick?

for me, im not to worried what we have in the high minors. I am worried about our high cieling depth of arms, we are really thinned out right now.

2006-02-19 18:17:16
129.   CanuckDodger
101 -- Andy LaRoche no better than Joe Crede? Fortunately for comparison purposes, they both had between 200 and 300 AB's in the Double A Southern League at age 21:

Crede: .251/.303/.347

LaRoche: .273/.367/.445

LaRoche is going to be considerably better in the majors than Crede.

2006-02-19 18:18:25
130.   natepurcell
one question about your list oldbear

once again, you show a big contradiction that im curious about. you put orenduff #4, but you put laroche #7, stating that he was average in AA.

umm, what would you call orenduff's performance in AA? he was pretty average as well, while pitching in a pretty darn good pitchers stadium while laroche was hitting in a pitchers park.

2006-02-19 18:19:51
131.   natepurcell
well looks like canuck is here. I have to go now, but im sure canuck can continue the prep vs college pitchers argument, who we should draft at #7 argument, and etc.
2006-02-19 18:22:32
132.   King of the Hobos
128 We do have guys like Johnson and Wall as far as high ceiling prep guys are concerned

If all the college arms are gone by #7, I'd prefer drafting the best available non-Boras guy. No reason to go strictly after a prep arm when there might be better guys available. Like I said, the 26 and 31 picks can easily be used on high ceiling prep guys. Last year, only 3 prep guys were gone by the 26th pick, and the Marlins took 2 of them

2006-02-19 18:23:41
133.   Steve
I would prefer a top college arm

We have a top college arm, and we can't sign him because he's a top college arm. I think this is why the pendulum is swinging. Once top college arms start eating at soup kitchens, they will become draftable again.

2006-02-19 18:30:15
134.   oldbear
112. "you always say you will always take the higher risk if it means the return will be higher. why does that philsophy differ when it comes to drafting?"

Because the Dodgers as a whole will never be soley built through the draft. I believe that every team has to have a few solid home grown cheap players, so they can afford the true difference making superstars in free agency.

With the draft, I'm not looking for superstars, bc the chances of finding those players are minimal. I'm mainly looking for depth. I'm looking for enough good players, that will make it to the Big leagues, and fill roster spots on the cheap. So give me the safest picks. Why?

Because like I said before, I can always sign the proven Superstar in free agency. I can supplement good safe high yeilding drafts.

Its much easier/safer to build a team using the draft to fill depth, and free agency to secure the superstars. Rather than building a team through trying to draft superstars, and using the free agent market to acquire depth.

But Nate, I did say I'd rather have a high risk/high reward TEAM at the big league level. And if I was a fan of the D-Rays, Royals, or Pirates, which arent financially capable of acquiring the super star talent in free agency, then I would support drafting high risk/high return talent bc thats the ONLY way those teams could acquire said players. They certainly cant afford them in the free agent market, or through trades.

But with a team like the Dodgers, its not necessary to take on additional risk, when they can fill those needs for superstars through the free agency market.

In a nutshell, the Dodgers dont need to risk drafting superstars when you can always sign a proven one in free agency. And the only way you can have enough funds to sign a few proven superstars, is if your drafting has been safe enough to where its filled most of the roster.

2006-02-19 18:30:54
135.   CanuckDodger
A lot of moaning and groaning about James Loney earlier in the thread. Let's look at his performance compared to some other hitters who played in Double A at Loney's age in 2005, 21:

James Loney: .284/.357/.419

Dave Justice: .227/.333/.336

Bernie Williams: .281/.409/.414

Shannon Stewart: .287/.398/.390

Torii Hunter: .263/.324/.401

If Loney hits for average in the majors like Williams and Stewart, and has Williams' power, with a GOOD walk rate but not a fantastic one like Williams, and couples all of that with Gold Glove defense, the Dodgers are going to be very happy with Loney for a very long time, even if the people around here who surely hate every Dodger first baseman since Gil Hodges are complaining.

2006-02-19 18:35:37
136.   Steve
Who are these proven Superstars? What are we supposed to sign them for? Five years, $55 million?
2006-02-19 18:38:17
137.   Bob Timmermann
They go to Superstar State University. They want you to score high on the Toolsy Aptitude Test.
2006-02-19 18:42:05
138.   Steve
Is that in the PAC-10? Is it overrated too?
2006-02-19 18:46:47
139.   Bob Timmermann
It's in the Mountain West.
2006-02-19 18:53:32
140.   oldbear
136. Yes.

The goal of the MLB Draft (for a big Market club), should be to acquire depth.

The goal of the MLB Draft (for a small Market club), should be to acquire superstars (since thats the only way they can get them).

Dont get me wrong. It'd be great to develop some superstars within the Dodgers system. But I'm not willing to gamble high risk picks in order to do that. I'd much rather have good safe picks that add depth. The difference makers (superstars), can then be acquired through free agency provided the Dodgers have enough depth drafted and thus funds available.

2006-02-19 18:56:26
141.   oldbear
135. Those stats might be relevant if Justice, Williams, Stewart, or Hunter had repeated AA.
2006-02-19 18:57:08
142.   Andrew Shimmin
People with mohawks should only be permitted to play basketball in early 90's video games.
2006-02-19 18:59:26
143.   oldbear
130. LaRoche had a greater drop in performance going from A to AA, than Orenduff did. I dont think park effects can explain away all of that.

Also, LaRoche has had a more volatile career than Orenduff. Orenduff seems more consistent.

2006-02-19 19:00:44
144.   CanuckDodger
108 -- Pitchers drafted out of high school and pitchers drafted out of college get injured at approximately the same rate over a period of five years after they are drafted, no matter what you think "common sense" is telling you. College pitchers drafted early the last few years have been going down at a high rate, and that includes the best college pitcher of the last five years, Mark Prior. Injuries are an occupational hazard for ALL pitchers.

You had better prepare yourself to be disappointed with our up-coming draft, because I think the odds are very strong that Logan White will take a high school pitcher at #7 overall. DePodesta didn't deter White from going with his preference for high school arms early, and now DePodesta isn't around for White to have to compromise with at all.

2006-02-19 19:06:23
145.   CanuckDodger
141 -- What Loney did in a season in which he was badly injured, had surgery, and was a year younger than the age at which Justice, Williams, Stewart, amd Hunter played in Double A is NOT relevent. What the five players did at the SAME age at the SAME level IS relevent.
2006-02-19 19:11:48
146.   CanuckDodger
143 -- LaRoche went from a hitting environment that was fairly neutral to a tougher one, Orenduff went from a pitching environment that was neutral to one that was more favorable, yet still faltered, and he was older than LaRoche to boot.
2006-02-19 19:12:11
147.   natepurcell
LaRoche had a greater drop in performance going from A to AA, than Orenduff did. I dont think park effects can explain away all of that.

thats not really true. Laroche raised his bb/PA and ISOd a bunch when he went up to AA. if anything, that should help his cause because it shows he can be patient against top level pitching.

when orenduff went up to AA, his hit rate, homerun rate, and era all dramatically rose. His k rate also dropped from 12+ to 8+.

Also, LaRoche has had a more volatile career than Orenduff. Orenduff seems more consistent.

really? how so?
look at orenduffs 2003 year at odgen, 4.74era, 5+bb/9ip, 1.63 whip.

Orenduffs career has been just as volatile.

the biggest difference between laroche and orenduff are the TOOLS that both have. i know you could care less about what scouts think, but scouts rate laroche has having the tools necessary to be a top tier 3rd baseman in the majors. Orenduff only grades out as a #3 at best because he has a 89-91mph fb with a plus slider and no third pitch at all really.

2006-02-19 19:14:44
148.   natepurcell
IMO, this upcoming year will be the make or break year for loney. if he cant hit for power at vegas, he will not hit for power anywhere.
2006-02-19 19:14:51
149.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, the old Sports Arena magic!
2006-02-19 19:17:34
150.   natepurcell
maybe change the subject a little, but still referring to the 2006 draft, long beach st 3b/ss/2b evan longoria (no relation to the supermodel) has started the season on fire hitting 438/.609/.781 with 3 Homeruns and 11 Walks in 10 games. if he continues, he will be the second dirtbag infielder in a row to be drafted in the top 10. he might be in the cards when the dodgers pick but i dont really know where he can play.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-02-19 19:21:52
151.   natepurcell
gurnick has a new article up, focusing on the pitchers.

this is from the article
Penny continued to work on a sharp breaking ball.

what does that mean? is he working on another pitch? or is he sharpening his old loopy curveball?

2006-02-19 19:26:07
152.   thinkblue0

actually, he IS related to Eva Longoria.

2006-02-19 19:26:33
153.   natepurcell
at the insiderthedodgers blog, roy smiths tackles the question of las vegas and why we use it as our AAA club and not a more nuetral site.
2006-02-19 19:27:17
154.   D4P
And this from Repko:

"After hitting only .221 last year, I want to prove to these guys that there's more than what they see in the numbers."

2006-02-19 19:27:51
155.   natepurcell
yay roy smith is taking to my suggestion of doing little updates on dodger prospects at that blog. good for him.
2006-02-19 19:28:11
156.   CanuckDodger
150 -- C'mon, you know better than that, Nate. The last thing White is going to do is draft a 3rd baseman early (we're drowning in 3rd basemen), let alone with our pick in the top 10. In four years as scouting director, White has drafted only two college position players in the first five rounds, none higher than the third round, and he probably only took Pedroza because DePodesta was leaning on him.
2006-02-19 19:30:15
157.   natepurcell
actually, he IS related to Eva Longoria.

really? ive read that he isnt related. so he is eh....

well that automatically puts him at the top of my draft board.

2006-02-19 19:31:07
158.   thinkblue0
I went to LB St. as well....he's her brother
2006-02-19 19:31:12
159.   natepurcell
re 156

im just throwing oldbear and other college players a bone. can longoria switch to CF? lol

2006-02-19 19:32:08
160.   natepurcell
canuck, would you draft andrew miller if he fell to #7?
2006-02-19 19:32:46
161.   Steve
154 -- In his case, there better be
2006-02-19 19:33:54
162.   King of the Hobos
151 That same article mentions Drew will probably be late to camp. A perfect excuse to call him a slacker (nevermind the birth of his child)

And Repko had a heck of a quote: "After hitting only .221 last year, I want to prove to these guys that there's more than what they see in the numbers."

2006-02-19 19:35:19
163.   King of the Hobos
154 Beat a lot. Maybe next time I'll be quicker (and refresh before posting)
2006-02-19 19:36:55
164.   Steve
Maybe next time I'll be quicker

That's what Repko's talking about, I fear.

2006-02-19 19:37:28
165.   natepurcell
everyone should set their calenders for march 3rd. the dodgers 1005am game against the braves will be on ESPN.

i hope billingsley is starting!

2006-02-19 19:40:26
166.   Steve
Aaron Sele is scheduled to start that game
2006-02-19 19:44:29
167.   bhsportsguy
"If you have to manage, you've hired the wrong person as manager. I might suggest once in a while, but I won't dictate. It's us, not me. It needs to be a decision by consensus in the room and especially whoever has a stake in the decision, like a pitching coach with a pitcher or a hitting coach with a hitter."

Ned Colleti commenting on what input he will have on playing time, lineups, etc. - Ken Gurnick's notes on

Yes, it would have been nice if DePo could have the same opportunity.

2006-02-19 19:47:10
168.   King of the Hobos
164 Well, according to him: "I need to have less movement and get direct to the ball, then put the ball in play."

That last part proves that he listened intently to Tracy's lectures, assuming Rob Rossi's definition of Tracyball is true: "[Tracy] believes in catching the ball on defense and putting it into play on offense. After that, things such as pitching and scoring should take care of themselves."

2006-02-19 19:49:13
169.   Steve
If every trace of the 2005 Dodgers were wiped from the known universe, I would have little argument.
2006-02-19 19:58:37
170.   CanuckDodger
160 -- Nate, if Andrew Miller falls to #7, there will be a REASON why he fell that far, like a poor overall performance this season, or he signed a contract with the Devil...I mean Boras. So that means I have to say no, if Miller is available at #7, I don't want him. It would be similar to last year: there was a REASON why Hochevar was still on the board after every team in baseball had had a chance to take him, and we alone were stupid enough not to resist the cheese in the mousetrap.
2006-02-19 20:04:34
171.   King of the Hobos
If you turn to 980 KFWB (or, you'll be able to listen to Dodger Talk. Repko will be the special guest!
2006-02-19 20:07:50
172.   PennyJavy
And according to Bob Harvey, Repko was one of the bright spots in 2005!
2006-02-19 20:11:14
173.   Andrew Shimmin
The Bonds story turns out to be only so much hogwash.

"If my knee holds up, I'll keep on going. I'm playing psychological games with myself right now. I don't want to set myself up for disappointment if things don't work out this season."

Some day reporters are going to catch on that nothing he says really means anything. That he doesn't take them seriously.

2006-02-19 20:23:57
174.   Sam DC
Fun piece up on Just A Bit Outside. Well worth the time to click over.
2006-02-19 20:29:09
175.   King of the Hobos
Dodger Talk revealed some useful information... Brazoban is not injured, he says it was a rumor started by Manny Acta (manager of Licey) as an excuse to bench him. Now he refuses to play for Acta anywhere, and as Acta is the manager of the Dominican Republic WBC team, he refuses to play in the WBC
2006-02-19 20:34:38
176.   willhite
175 -

Why would Acta want to bench him? Wasn't he pitching really well? Maybe the Dodgers sent word to shut him down because they thought he had pitched too much already last year.

2006-02-19 20:37:52
177.   King of the Hobos
176 He started to struggle in the second half of the season, and the Licey pen was so loaded that Acta wanted another pitcher to close. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the Dodgers told him to shut Brazoban down. This is just Brazoban's biased account, secondhand (through A. Martinez), so it may not be 100% true.
2006-02-19 20:41:59
178.   willhite
177 -

Although I can't pinpoint the articles, it seems to me as though Yhency has been sounding a little angry lately. That might not be a bad thing. Up to now, he's been kind of "just there".

I think some attitude combined with his fastball and new changeup could make him very effective this year.

2006-02-19 20:42:27
179.   Bob Timmermann
Note that I used a question mark in my headline about Bonds on the Griddle.
2006-02-19 20:54:06
180.   Steve
What did Repko do other than strike out, never get on base, and top it off by being the worst centerfielder in MLB? Baseball is bizarre. Mike Marshall is likely correct.

Side note: Why is Repko's inability to catch excused (and celebrated) while Phillips' inability to throw gets him...well...moved to first base?

There was no 2005. It was like baseball by The Strangers.

2006-02-19 21:01:28
181.   Andrew Shimmin
He hit a few home runs, crashed in to the wall that one time, and ran like the wind. Like the wind! What more do you want?
2006-02-19 21:04:58
182.   D4P
A guy has to crash into the wall at least twice to earn my respect.
2006-02-19 21:07:58
183.   Steve
I hear the wind, but it's not coming from Repko.
2006-02-19 21:09:53
184.   willhite
180 -

Not sure exactly what you're getting at Steve. Do you want Repko moved to first base or to catcher? :)

2006-02-19 21:11:30
185.   blue2thebone
Repko's a sparkplug! If he can cut down on the K's he can be a big contributer to this team. I think Ned is counting on him to fill in a lot for Drew & Lofton this year, so I wish him the best!
2006-02-19 21:13:14
186.   willhite
185 -

Another Repkoholic. Welcome to the club (there are very very few of us, you know).

2006-02-19 21:15:28
187.   Bob Timmermann
Repko = sparkplug
Furcal = fuel injection system
Drew = camshaft
Lofton = alternator
Kent = battery
Garciaparra = turn signal
Mueller = brake light
Penny = spare tire
Lowe = cupholder
Gagne = struts
Tomko = glove compartment
Little = that place where you keep the registration slip
2006-02-19 21:16:23
188.   Steve
If Repko was a sparkplug, where was the spark?
2006-02-19 21:17:03
189.   das411
119 - Hmm, I wonder why you don't even mention this year's NHL All-star game? Oh right, THERE ISN'T ONE.

133 - Hey Steve, were you over at Bob's place yesterday when he noticed that Sabean has been doing this for ten years?

173 - Some day reporters are going to catch on that nothing he says really means anything. That he doesn't take them seriously.

No, they won't. Ever. Not even after 756.

180 - There was no 2005. It was like baseball by The Strangers.

Hmm, the White Sox win the World Series, the Dodgers hire a general manager from SF, someone who is NOT The Barry wins the NL MVP, the Padres make the playoffs with the 14th most wins in the majors...what was going on last year?!?

2006-02-19 21:20:11
190.   Steve
For that matter, the last thing he needs to do is cut down on the Ks. Getting hits or drawing walks or catching the ball would be a good start.
2006-02-19 21:26:50
191.   Bob Timmermann
Steve wasn't at my place because he would have been in violation of the restraining order I had put against him. He is not allowed to stand any closer to me than Kenny Lofton can throw a baseball on the fly.
2006-02-19 21:34:01
192.   blue2thebone
190 - Let's hope he does that, Steve!
2006-02-19 21:34:44
193.   Steve
For Las Vegas!
2006-02-19 21:37:34
194.   natepurcell
wow, steve is going to love this.

apparently, there is another izturis, julio izturis who is the younger brother of cesar and macier. julio who is 16, just signed a contract with the sf giants for 60,000.

i cant wait for another izturis to play in the majors!

2006-02-19 21:38:31
195.   natepurcell
ah, i forgot to properly credit steve henson for that nice little piece of info.
2006-02-19 21:40:29
196.   natepurcell
lol, jeff loves the green, jered loves booze.

2006-02-19 21:41:13
197.   natepurcell
a great quote from brother jered

"You see some things you've never seen before," Weaver said of his time in the holding tank. "I wouldn't say it was cool to experience, but it was a trip to see people you'd never even see on 'Cops.' It was crazy."

2006-02-19 21:42:31
198.   blue2thebone
194 - You wouldn't even want Repko with a .800 ops if he can do it?
2006-02-19 21:45:06
199.   Fallout
173 - Some day reporters are going to catch on that nothing he says really means anything. That he doesn't take them seriously.

These reporters are rejects from the White House press briefings.

2006-02-19 21:45:46
200.   natepurcell
You wouldn't even want Repko with a .800 ops if he can do it?

but he cant do that lol.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-02-19 21:54:57
201.   Linkmeister
120 Leave the Pro Bowl alone! There are 50,000 NFL-starved fans out here who go to that game every year!
2006-02-19 21:55:26
202.   blue2thebone
200 - He might just surprise you.
2006-02-19 21:57:46
203.   King of the Hobos
200 Well, in 2004, he did manage...nevermind his other five seasons above rookie ball

202 If you say so

2006-02-19 22:01:38
204.   Linkmeister
199 Given the lack of quality info dispensed at those briefings, I'd say they're refugees/escapees, rather than rejects.
2006-02-19 22:04:56
205.   Steve
Why not Ethier? Or Delwyn Young? Or Cody Ross? Or Jason Grabowski? Or Mike Edwards? Or Henri Stanley? Why is it Jason Repko who is to surprise us? What magical powers does he have? And, even were he to hit .800 OPS, I am to look "beyond the numbers." To what? His lack of defensive skill (or as it is referred to his "gold-glove caliber defense")? His inability to hit anything but fastballs down and in?
2006-02-19 22:08:14
206.   fawnkyj
Re: Yhency v. Acta

If im not mistaken Acta has not been a big fan of Brazo for a while. I remember reading from a poster in the dodger board that is in the DR, that Brazo would be lazy and walk around like he was a superstar. He would show to practice late and everything, Acta wouldn't put up with it and benched him. If i can find a link i will.

2006-02-19 22:09:14
207.   Sam DC
There was an argument-abandoning phrase kicking around for a while this offseason, and I'm much annoyed I can't remember for sure what it was. I think it was "Who's to say?" As in, "Who's to say Brett Tomko won't pitch 200 innings of sub 3.0 ERA ball this year?" or "Who's to say Nomah won't get his old form back and hit .345 with 100 RBIs."

That sound familiar to anyone?

2006-02-19 22:13:26
208.   Steve
207 -- That was "Bob Keisser's" brilliant insight into the 2005 season. They make you pay for his newspaper.
2006-02-19 22:16:48
209.   Sam DC
Thx Steve. It all comes back to my aging, sleepy brain . . .
2006-02-19 22:19:07
210.   blue2thebone
I'd love to see any young outfielder in camp come through with a great spring and ops .800. I think Repko, has as much potential as any of them for '06.

Of course, he needs to make adjustments, and if he can't adjust he'll have to work it out in Vegas. I'm interested in seeing how Ethier & Young play also. I hope one of them steps up & shows some skill.

Unlike you, I'm not ready to write him off before ST.

2006-02-19 22:19:27
211.   Steve
209 -- Repkoholism kills brain cells. Consider this an intervention.
2006-02-19 22:23:03
212.   Steve
If he can learn to do useful things, fine. If he wants to learn to "put the ball in play" and run around the outfield like an idiot and pretend that stealing bases makes him an offensive juggernaut, then what's the point?
2006-02-19 22:42:18
213.   Andrew Shimmin
187- If Furcal is the fuel injection system, does that make Izturis a carburetor?
2006-02-19 22:43:16
214.   Steve
Tracy was the exhaust pipe.
2006-02-19 22:59:30
215.   fawnkyj
They just showed a small interview of Nomar by Jim Hill on KCAl. Nomar was taking BP in one of the shots and he still has the quick bat, if he can just stay on the field this team is going places.

Just thinking out loud, i remember reading stuf f that people thought he was on roids, but looking at before and after pics the guys never looked roided up. And he doesn't look smaller now (ala Bonds and Sammy).

2006-02-19 23:01:39
216.   Andrew Shimmin
Watching the Meet the Press replay, I'm wondering if there's an author with imagination enough to render a David Gregory in his full glory. The outline is pretty basic, cliched, even. But the depth of his devotion to being that cliche, the vigilance in never missing an opportunity to say exactly what you know he's going to, but cannot fathom a human adult male doing in public--it's inspirational, after a fashion. How many people are willing to just be the caricature? Even Dick Cheney did the whole interview with Brit Hume thing, trying to prove that he isn't evil. Dan Quayle pretended to read Modern Times. Not David Gregory. He's hard core. Hard ever-loving core.
2006-02-19 23:04:32
217.   blue2thebone
Who's to say Nomar won't hit .320 and drive in 100 runs? I think he might. Who's to say Tomko won't throw 200 innings with a 3.40 ERA? I'd like to see it.
2006-02-19 23:14:43
218.   Bob Timmermann
Yhency Brazoban is the catalytic converter.
Dioner Navarro is a CV joint.
2006-02-19 23:29:41
219.   das411
216 - I think that might get a yellow flag from Jon's politics ban, but damn was that well-said!

Seriously, thanks for the description, my MSM boycott has prevented me from truly reveling in this story despite Bob Costas and his constant attempts to sneak things...

218 et al - Maybe Steve would like to handle this one, but...what is Danys Baez? :)

2006-02-19 23:34:33
220.   Andrew Shimmin
McCourt pays up his loan to Fox by letting them foreclose on his parking lots, and assume the $58M in debt, left on them. McCourt is my new hero.

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