Answering the King of the Hobos question from the 4/15 thread, the most LOB by a team that was shutout is 16. It's been done twice. The last team to do was Seattle in 1998.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B05070SEA1998.htm

1 Thanks. The Brewers had to score a run in the 4th, thus eliminating the shutout, but they did leave a man on base

The Padres are starting Rob Bowen at catcher. Starting your third catcher isn't nearly as much a surprise as his position in the lineup, he's batting cleanup!

After two straight days of difficulties with MiLB.tv, I was hoping they'd finally fix it for Billingsley. Of course, the game has been postponed.

The Dodgers have asked Izturis to try out the outfield because, per the LA Times, "General Manager Ned Colletti said the Dodgers need a utilityman who can play infield and outfield. As of now, he said, neither the major league roster nor the triple-A roster includes such a player."

I thought there was a promising young prospect the LV 51s who has experience & desire to play shortstop while also getting experience in the outfield & firstbase. I'm not inclined to rush anyone but given the choice between putting Izturis & his bat regularly in the outfield and rushing up Guzman I'm inclined to lean toward Guzman.

the Dodgers need a utilityman who can play infield and outfield

And to think, we let Edwards and Valentin just walk away.

Why is Colletti focused on an utilityman who can play both IF/OF when he still needs good OFs? Or, for that matter, pitchers?

With our GM's approach to team-building, I fear that we are in for a long stretch of mediocrity. But at least we'll have Jose Oquendo Jr. on the team...

Lucille II has played the OF in the past (with the Giants), is he not good enough? I just hope Izzy takes his roster spot, and not someone actually useful

I thought that Martinez made the team mostly because he could play all of the infield positions plus the outfield.

Did I miss something here?

Maybe they're planning to move him off the roster soon?

I think ned just wants to get izturis in some games to show that his arm is healthy so he can trade him.

The 1st half of the season is gonna be tuff, but the second half of the season, the team could improve if proper decisions are made (a trade for pitching, and bring up top prospects that are ready) plus get gagne back.

Ryan Church has hit 2 homers today, once to tie the game, and again in the 9th to give the Nats the lead. I wonder if Bowden is regretting calling him up

Sadly, someone in the Washington-Florida game has to win.

And neither teams looks like it has the remotest idea of how to do it.

I dont have faith in Ned's ability to trade MLB level merchandise.

He pretty much gave Bradley, AP, and Choi all away for nothing.

One good thing about Ned's bargain basement clearinghouse is he shouldnt have any problem finding customers.

Farmer Ned has the lowest prices in baseball.

I dont have faith in Ned's ability to trade MLB level merchandise.

Yep i'm concerned about that too.

I have a feeling you two aren't going to like the imminent Ross for a PTBNL or cash deal

I dont have faith in Ned's ability to trade MLB level merchandise.

Trading MLB level merchandise isn't the problem. Receiving MLB level merchandise in return seems to be the problem.

15 Have you fotgotten that Colletti has recieved 2 former all stars in trades?

16 Fotgotten has to be one of my better typos, or at least I like it. I meant forgotten obviously, I even previewed the post

to be honest with people, baez has been better then i have expected so far in this riduculously small sample size.

so that means he still has about 75 innings to disappoint me.

16
You hit the exacta with fotgotten and then recieved.

I aim to keep most of my glaring errors in the math area.

Juan Encarnacion is not winning fans in St. Louis.

I don't have a problem with baez and never have, i think he's a solid setup man but overrated as a closer, i just don't like the price we paid for him (jackson and tiffany).

One of the Baseball Tonight guys (I've fotgotten which) called Baez one of the top ten middle relievers in the game. Which sounds about right.

Is if Colletti wants a utility man, wouldn't Delwyn Young be, like, perfect? Sure, they'd have to lose Cody Ross to free up a roster spot, but, aren't Dodgers named Ross pretty useless after they get their 2 HR game in Pittsburgh in April?

Baez is part of the credit where due for last night. Getting a guy on base early seemed to faze him not a bit.
Also--Perez was good. Change in velocity is more affective than pure velocity and Perez is of an age where experience and learning should work together (I know O.P's incosistancy is mysterious).
Navarro--Although I'm a R. Martin fan and kind of hope he gets the job, there is nothing like results. For a wimpy Dodger offense he gets 2 of 3 RBIs.

By the way, Bob (or anybody else) do you know when retrosheet is going to post its 2005 data?

ESPN box score for the Dave Ross game is here:

http://tinyurl.com/z5w6v

delwyn young isnt a very good defensive player.

24
Retrosheet's website said the 2005 data would be up by Opening Day.

Obviously it isn't. Since it's a volunteer organization, the people who must do the final work on the data must be tied up with annoying real world responsibilities.

Since Dave Smith is quoted in the New York Times today using 2005 data, it's obviously done. So it's the people who have to make everything all HTMLish.

Texas and Oakland have played for 1:07 and they're already up to the sixth.

I don't expect Izzy to become a great OF, especially now that his arm is suspect. It was good for a SS, right? But who knows, now. And, anyway, a utility man shouldn't be playing that much. His bat should be more important (generally), and with Ramon Martinez the first line of defense, getting a no-stick all-glove backup to the backup utility man. . .

I guess the problem I'm having is that that what he seems to want doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks Bob.

The Cardinals led off the 9th with Jason Marquis as the pinch hitter.

He singled. The Cardinals had their backup catcher (Gary Bennett) and Jim Edmonds (who is hurt) available.

And Pujols followed with his third homer of the game to win it.

Laroche drew a walk today, to give him the organization lead with 9. Furcal and Cruz have 8 apiece. Sergio Pedroza and Ethier both have 6 for second in the minor league ranks. A.J. Zapp leads with 14 Ks. Aybar leads everyone with 3 homers.

The Cards had a lineup featuring Scott Speizio batting 6th and still won. Pujols did contribute somewhat with 3 homers, including the walkoff homer

Mike Maroth now leads the league in ERA. I don't see that lasting

So with the Dodger game being on ESPN, how many DT viewers will be watching with the sound off?

The Phillies beat the Rockies 1-0 today at Coors.

That should be good for something out of Mike's Rants and Bad Altitude.

I will.

Althought it'll be hard to switch from the "Little People, Big World" marathon on TLC...

I got up early to celebrate the resurrection of Kenny Lofton.

I BELIEVE NOW!

Poor Milton Bradley. He looked to have made a leaping catch of Jiminez's long fly, but when he hit the wall, the ball went out of his glove and over the fence for a game-tying home run.

Bob has decided he'd rather be Peter than Thomas.

12.

So far, Choi has been worth nothing to the Red Sox. Also, we didn't really need AP, Ramon Martinez and Robles can both do that job just fine.

As for Bradley, do you really think there was any chance of him staying after the run in with Jeff Kent?

I always watch baseball with the sound off, unless Vin Scully is involved or I'm moving around, multitasking, and not sitting in front of the set.

Rex Hudler and Joe Morgan can't annoy me (much) if I can't hear them. Lead me not into frustration.

Same for basketball a lot of the time. It's not like I actually need someone to tell me what I'm seeing.

For football, I still find the analysis helpful. 30 years of fandom, and I still learn stuff. Much more complicated game.

Agreed, Vin Scully can entertain by reading a phone book.

"It's time for the White Pages! Hello, there everybody and a pleasant good evening to you wherever you may be. Let's get started. AAA, 555-1234 or consult your membership card....

Now let's take a look back at the first aid section ....

Before we hit the Bs, let me tell you about Farmer John ..."

But it'd sound good if Scully was calling it.

Vinnie might have a little trouble with the Hawai'i phone book, particularly the section of the alphabet where the Samoans are.

"Now batting, number 13, Manu Tuiasasopu."

And that's one of the easy ones.

39 - The point wasn't that we needed those guys, it was that Ned got nothing for them.

And Martinez and Robles can only "do that job just fine" if that job doesn't involve hitting well.

And, by the way, James Loney was less productive with the bat at double-A Jacksonville last year than Choi was in the major leagues. His glove is better, though, and defense (especially at the legendary "corner where we put old fat guys") wins championships!

45.

Loney is only 22, let him develop. Also, Martinez has hit well when put in. Choi didn't have a high stock at all when let go. And Bradley's stock was even worse.

Also, Martinez has hit well when put in. Choi didn't have a high stock at all when let go. And Bradley's stock was even worse.

sell high, buy low. Ned isnt very good at that.

It doesn't work like that. When you have an enigmatic Bradley who has had problems keeping his cool, you can't get much for him.

And Choi, he was awful during the WBC, and the best we could have gotten for him was Graffinino.

You sound like a laker fan who wants to trade Sasha V., Devan George, and Jim Jackson for Kevin Garnett.

It doesn't work like that. When you have an enigmatic Bradley who has had problems keeping his cool, you can't get much for him.

then dont trade him. try to work it out. If his value is so low, build his value back up. Because if he plays, he will produce. hes a good player.

And Choi, he was awful during the WBC, and the best we could have gotten for him was Graffinino.

again, then dont trade him/release him. He had an option available. Use it! Letting him go was short sighted and unwarranted.

You sound like a laker fan who wants to trade Sasha V., Devan George, and Jim Jackson for Kevin Garnett

what Laker fan wouldnt want to do that trade?

then dont trade him

It wasn't gonna work with us. We did try and work it out, he went through anger management, and still had that explosion with Kent.

Keep Choi? Why, so he can cut down Loney's playing time in AAA?

what Laker fan wouldnt want to do that trade?

That's not the point, the point is, you've gotta trade value, to get value.

small sample size, but Ethier is hitting .438 and ops'ing 1.088 at vegas. im as big a milton bradley fan as anyone, but its too early in the year to jump to conclusions about this trade.

it would be nice to still have AP, considering all the injuries thus far.

If there is any one alive less enigmatic than Bradley, I'd like to meet him.

I think I'm less enigmatic than Milton Bradley.

53- How puzzling that you would say that. . . I guess I'm just easily enigmatized.

52. ill submit Tom Arnold for your consideration.

Keep Choi? Why, so he can cut down Loney's playing time in AAA?

I'll see your question and raise you two: How is Nomar's recovery going? Do you think a reinjury is in the cards?

53
But are you alive...?

50 - Loney has never, ever played in triple-A. You could order the manager to bench Choi if you had too, but right now he would be in the majors.

And, by the way, starting center fielders who hit for power and average are not comparable to the Laker flotsam you referenced in 48. Bradley is at least Smush Parker. And nobody said that we should have gotten Alex Rodriguez for him. Putting stupid words in other people's mouths and showing how superior you are for being against them is not intellectually honest.

easter dinner for a college student: low carb 6 dollar burger, criscutt fries and a rasperry iced tea from carls jr.

For a very long time, I thought Elvis Costello was singing, "trying to enigmatize the way that you can feel. . ." Also, I thought that radio was a, "sad salvation." Anesthatize is better than my version, but I think radio is better as a sad salvation, than a sound one.

Bradley is at least Smush Parker.

How about Kwame Brown?

Today is Flanders's birthday. He's 52.

inside the dodgers blog has some UFC references today!

Hallo there, Yeah a UFC guy Sylvia (last name) is throwing out the first pitch.

Choi is currently 4-11 with a homer and 3 walks at Pawtucket (and 2 Ks). Ridiculously small sample size aside, if he continues to hit like that, Snow's job is far from safe

Alou is finally in the Giants' lineup, which means no Finley to serve as an easy out

Any boxing fans here?

Next big fight is Corrales-Castillo III.

The fight I want to see is Ricky Hatton-Floyd Mayweather. Mayweather I've read wants to fight De La Hoya, even though De La Hoya is like the Nomar of boxing.

By the way I'm new here & can't wait to chat with other Dodger fans. I'm pretty sure some people know me from the Dodger message board.

Go Dodgers!

Why, so he can cut down Loney's playing time in AAA?

The 51's would probably rather see Choi playing 1st than James Loney, if AAA championships are worth winning...

hey bluebleeder, welcome aboard.

on another note, i really wanted beckett back in november/december. Too bad Colletti come on board too late.

I'm a boxing fan, the fight I'd like to see is Paquiao (pac-man) vs. Morales III

33 -- How can one watch it any other way?

71
No doubt you'll be watching it on your plasma from Wal-Mart.

Bonds in the lineup again tonight. Alou is playing also, which is the bad news. Finley sits.

And the Evil One, Randy Winn, will be in center field.

I usually dont care at all to see washed up fighters, however....

The dream fight I always wanted to see was Mike Tyson vs Roy Jones JR. Mainly bc Tyson is a small heavyweight, and Jones (albeit smaller), had much superior boxing skills in his prime that I think it'd be a great fight.

Of course now, I'm not sure if any would pay to see it.

But 5-6 yrs ago when Roy went up to light heavyweight and Tyson was still somewhat of a factor, it would have been one of the highest grossing fights of all time IMO.

The reason the heavyweight division is poor now is because there are basically two classes fighting. You have the "super heavyweights" like Lennox Lewis, Klitchko's... and then the smaller guys like Tyson. Putting them all in one division just didnt make much sense to me.

we need seo to really smoke and mirror the giants tonight.

65. I certainly expect that Choi can out-play Snow, and I hope to see him doing just that by mid-season. My worry is that McCourt and Colletti will then give up yet another useful part for Snow. I mean, what could be better than a well-over-the-hill, no-hit, overrated-defense first baseman with both Giants and Red Sox ties?

I counted last night, and might have missed some current Dodgers with recent Giants ties:

Kent, Cruz Jr., Mueller, Martinez, Tomko, Ledee, Lofton. Miss anyone?

The first three are useful. Feh on the rest. Colletti has no imagination at all beyond "safe veterans." I'm distressed to learn that he's only 52. He's young enough to know better! Younger than Bill James, ain't he?

76
Not sure Ledee deserves the "feh"

I think all bench players are "feh".

78
Fehr enough...

77. He does now that he's basically crippled. He was pretty good off the bench a couple years ago, but now the only way to praise him is damned faintly: he's the best LH bat on the bench. And the only one.

I don't know if any of you guys talked about how biased the S.F. broadcasters were. I hope John Miller & Joe Morgan are better given the fact that they have S.F. ties.

small sample size, but Ethier is hitting .438 and ops'ing 1.088 at vegas.

he is doing well but his power still hasnt really blossomed yet. his ISOp is .138 so far and for playing in vegas, that really is unacceptable.

hopefully he can get it up to .200 at least by the end of his vegas tenure.

I thought Miller still did SF games. Isnt he their radio announcer?

Joe Morgan's commentary is just a running commercial for his book "Baseball for Dummies"

I watched the whole Red Sox-Mariners game because my son and Fam. was at Fenway. Beckett was great and Beltre, while still showing some of his worst batting tendencies, made a few fantastic plays. He had an undeserved error early, but made an amazing double play.

True about Miller, I heard he was the only one that had any kind of class while bradcasting the series.

Is Morgan doing the broadcast? Maybe I'll just commit Hari-Kari now.

81. 86. Gents, try the mute button. It's your best friend. Actually, my TV gives captions when the Mute is on, and Morgan is even dumber in print with typos than he is when audible, so I prefer to just turn the volume all the way to zero.

And it's "hara kiri," "Hara" as in "stomach" and "kiri" as in "cut." Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. Everyone gets it wrong.

87 - I guess people just think of Harry Caray.

Anyway, I too advocate just lowering the volume. Too bad there's no way to lower just the announce volume but keep the game sounds (pitches hitting the glove, the crack of the bat on the ball, etc.).

I prefer to think of tonight as "ESPN Barry Bonds Apologia Theater".

87- Hate to be a stickler, but shouldn't that be spelled: 切腹?

8^)

90
Oh, I thought it was 腹切

Let's hope Saito works the corners & keeps the batter's off balance.

91. You forgot the okurigana (り).

91- And that looks to be the vulgar way of spelling it. So, you know, I was trying to be site appropriate.

over/under on homeruns given up by seo will be set at 2 for tonight.

93
I'm horrible with okuriganae.

Did you guys here Morgan say we were more of an offensive minded team now? I don't now but I rather be a Pitching & Defensive minded team. JMOP

Jon's going to get some weird google traffic. . .

very efficient inning.

Seo sure didn't work much that inning. Hopefully it stays that way

I haven't watched much Giant baseball this season, but it sure seems to me as if Bonds has led off a lot of 2nd innings thus far...

Wow, DS does look like it's still 1962, that is kind of cool actually...

Why is Felipe conceding the first inning and batting Bonds cleanup?

HAHA, is Pedro Gomez really stationed in his own little box next to the SF dugout?? That's sooo stalker-rific!

So far so good for Saito.

the 51s knocked hennesey around this season, the dodgers should be able to as well.

103 Seo's pitching, not Saito

So far so good for Saito.

its seo. saito is a middle reliever.

Can anybody tell me what kind of stuff Hennessy has? thanks in advance.

People who don't know the difference between exacerbate and exasperate don't belong lecturing to me.

Furcal saw more pitches than the Giants did in the top of the inning

Oh, I forgot; the rest of you aren't listening to the commentary. Disregard 108.

...is that seriously a Harley-Davidson Bottom Line we're seeing while Kent is at bat? Priceless!

dodgers are 11 for 12 in stolen base attempts now.

pretty good rate.

wow, bonds swining and missing on an 88mph fb... never thought id see the day.

Bonds is embarrassing himself out there.

108-- Not just that, what about his misrepresentation of the "How to Heckle Barry" article? Bad, bad reporting.

By the way, my first post here. Great site. It's nice to see smart people talking about baseball.

112 Too bad they always seem to be followed by a walk (with Kent's AB being a notable exception)

WOW! Barry just missed it. I hope Saito goes a little more outside on him next time around.

117

can you please stop calling him saito? His name is Jae Seo. Its like that one guy that keeps trying to call Odalis peanut.

oh shoot! Sorry about that. Seo it is. :o)

Saito is a relief pitcher. He's also the one who doesn't have a Korean flag sewn to the outside webbing of his glove.

Cut me some slack. I'm new here (just a little nervous)

Classy. Kent just popped some chaw in his mouth.

Seo making you guys nervous as much he is me?

Keep the ball down buddy!

Wow, sorry guys but Ned Colletti looks like the kind of dude who would trade for a, say, Sal Fasano...

121-Wasn't trying to pile on. Just didn't refresh before posting. I had to google webbing to make sure it really did take two b's.

121
Don't worry, we're a warm and welcoming bunch.

But I do think there are more Korean readers than Japanese readers.

gammons pimpin dodger prospects!

Is chewing tobacco banned on any level of baseball?

So Colletti and Fasano are members of the same club das411?

Loney hits the ball too hard... imagine that.

Whoa!!!!

Gammons just said that ned told him that the dodgers are going to be a very young team come next year.
And mentioned guzman,ethier,billingsley,martin,broxton

My apologies to ALL, I'll try & do better.

way to go Seo. GOOD PITCHING

way to go Seo. GOOD PITCHING

Or bad hitting...

winn needs to go away and never come back.

132

Try? There is no try....

60 - But AS, is there an official translation for the first line of that song? Or will it forever be a mystery?

129 - Nate, alls I'm saying is: just be glad Colletti doesn't have a Gameday picture.

Does anybody know where those weird multicolor sleeved undershirts that Vizquel and a couple others are wearing, came from? I don't remember seeing those at all before this season...

With those lycra/spandex undershirts, the Giants look like they're little kids dressing up as superheroes.

jae seo's bat toss was very korean like.

136 The first time I noticed them was during the WBC. I think I've seen several Dodgers wearing them.

It's making me sick listening to those idiots Miller & Morgan actually openly rooting for the Giants.

Seo now has the best batting average in the lineup, maybe Grady should bat him higher

I hope Furcal get's better.

brad hennessey doing this is just an embarassment.

I know it's early but ALOT of people were pimping Furcal & I just don't see it.

136- The widely reproduced version is, "I was tuning in the shine on the light night dial." Don't know if it's official (or what that means), but it's okay by me. I'm not so big, as some are, on biting the hand that feeds me.

139 - Time to hit that mute button.

oh man I don't like this one bit. Alou is really good with people on base

where was that pitch?

I know that I repeat myself, but, if you're going to just give him the base, why not do it with one pitch to the chin? Much more efficient. And fun!

gritty pitching!

big opportunity blown by the Giants there.

D4P, what makes you think I can get a plasma, even at Wal-Mart? I top out at a 13 inch black and white Sylvania, which I only use to watch Munsters reruns while I spin discs.

Nice to see Seo get out of that jam.

The more I see Navarro's game calling ability the more I like it. But we all now other aspects of his diffence is still suspect.

We are seeing the last days of Barry Bonds' career as an intentional walker. In a few weeks, managers will realize there's no point in walking a .250 hitter with warning track power.

So with reporter/stalker Pedro Gomez around along with Gammons does that mean Sam Ryan has the night off?

Or is she around to provide EVEN more questionably useful info.

It's time to add "Bonds" to list of words that cannot be spoken on television. Somebody get George Carlin on the phone.

Do we have to wait til the end of the season to award Brad Hennessey his Cy Young award?

155-

these on the field reporters are completely useles...just bells and whistles. Most of them just talk nonsense...speaking of, did anyone hear Lidnsey Soto (is that her name?) after the game last night say "Little had a brilliant strategy of having his offense get timeley hits."

That made me want to drink bleach.

154 - That's definitely what I'm hoping for.

157 He and Jamey Wright can be co-Cy Youngs. Maybe we should have used the 51's for tonight's game

What is Morgan traying to say about not eating the food in DS?

she said >>>"Little had a brilliant strategy of having his offense get timeley hits."<<<

You gotta be joking about that? wow!

this is a freaking joke! it's everything GIANTS!! WHAT GIVES MAN!!!

this is a freaking joke! it's everything GIANTS!! WHAT GIVES MAN!!!

I knew our amazing hitting and scoring was a stat. fluke, but our present impotence is incredible.
This shouldn't surprise me but I guess almost six months w/o ball has its impact.
And by the time I type this, the Giants have gone down also--amazing.

It's an ESPN LOVES THE GIANTS LOVE FEST!!

I haven't actually seen Bonds play this season. Does it really look like he just might not be superman anymore?

can they talk about anything other than Barry Bonds?

As I was saying before I fell asleep, when Morgan's on the D's never win, and are subtely(and not so) insulted for the duration.

the regression to the mean will be sharp, abrupt, and colossal.

Before I can right a comment a team makes three outs--another 8 pitch inning. When did these pitchers become S. Koufax.

Are Seo and Hennessy contenders for the Cy Young, or are the hitters just that bad in this game?

Time of day and all that, but still...

I can imagine facing Drysdale, Koufax, Gibson or Marichal at this hour. It's a wonder there weren't no-hitters every time they went out at twilight.

D4P, what makes you think I can get a plasma, even at Wal-Mart? I top out at a 13 inch black and white Sylvania, which I only use to watch Munsters reruns while I spin discs.

What the heck kind of attorney are you, anyway? Are you on the Good Side or something?

167 This is my first sight of Bonds this season. He really does look bad.

I, of course, am thrilled. It almost makes listening to these ESPN announcers making fools of themselves worth it.

Hennessey & Seo are pitching pretty good, Let's hope we get to them FIRST!

KEEP THEM AT BAY SEO.

155 - Sam Ryan's not at the game? Where's Derek Lowe?

Four great starts in a row for the D's
Not bad. Sorry if I jinxed them.

176 - that was good.

Looks like Seo is loosing some steam

Run scored on a balk? Ugh.

First run allowed on a balk. Oi.

Clutch Ersty for Bonds.

Miller sounds really excited that the Giants scored. It's never much fun listening to Miller and Morgan do a Dodger game.

These ESPN guys are nuts. Bonds "did his job" by weakly grounding out to first? Whatever.

ESPN: Bonds everytime, all the time.

His hips pulled the ball.

Seo doesn't seem to have a lot of gas.

I wonder if the Giants appreciate this "productive out" as much as Morgan/Miller.

I'm gonto kill myself.

Seo didn't stop his throw to first on the balk.

Was it just not close enough to the bag?

I think Bob should take one for the team and do a review of "Bonds on Bonds" for us this week.

There's the ball game.

I hope Grady Little has somebody worming up in the pen.

190 Morgan/Miller said they thought the direction of the ball wasn't towards first enough - it was kind of off to the side.

Finally we're out of this half.

If we keep making this pitcher look like Cy Young I'm gonna puke.

Well-- I think BARRY thought it was a bit low---

191

OK, look for the review on Wednesday or Thursday.

Let's the Dodgers can score atleast one run in this inning.

Sorry to think like this, but I don't know about you, but I can't help seeing this team struggle like this and wishing DePo were still GM.

The 51's scored 7 runs against Hennessey in 4.2 IP (even though only 1 was earned). The Dodgers have yet to do anything against him in 5 IP

So I turn the TV on at my sister's house and get to see some weird kind of balk. Was it really a balk at all?

190 I just looked through the official rules for balks, but I couldn't find any circumstance which would require what Seo did to be called a balk. Unless he came off the rubber wrong, I'm not sure what was illegal.

Cody Ross get's the hit, I wonder who's worming up in the pen?

If Ross can hit a Cy Young candidate like Hennessey, why would we ever trade him, much less waive him?

I have a feeling we may lose this one going away- but I've seen the enemy and I think we are going to pull ahead of the G's over the season as both they and Morgan become more decrepit

197- It's that easy? I think Bob should take one for the team and do my taxes.

197 Bob, I was kidding! I wouldn't ask my worst enemy to watch that!

On another topic, apparently Ross wants to stay in the majors.

203 Carter.

And the Cody Ross hit parade continues.

Looks like we have something going here guys!!

has the real Brad Hennessey finall showed up? Must be that LA traffic...

Zig needs to light a fire under himself.

207

I am everyone's humble servant here. It makes up for everyone having to read about a lot of 19th century baseball games. They seem to be congregating at the beginning of the season.

The stands look pretty empty, at least in the upper deck. Thought there would be a better turnout on Sunday evening against the Giants.

I did not just see that.

Ahh, the 4-6-5 DP!

Well, this one is over.

Whats wrong with our vets tonight ( besides the fact that many are X-Giants).
I can't believe it --Joe agrees with Izzy
Oh--be scared --JD and Kent are coming.

Heads up play by Vizquel. dam!!

wow.... that's what you call veteran savvy.

How the heck did Vizquel have the presence of mind to do that?

Why did Vizquel go to 3rd? I doubt Lofton would have beat that out, and the out at 1st would be easier

And that is why Cody Ross is the 25th man

dose that remind anybody of Cora?

that was ridiculous.

OMG that shot of Lofton with the "Official Hospital of the Dodgers" banner over his head is unintentionally hilarious.

Will there be a time when Lofton will NOT hit into a double play in a game-critical situation?

Can we stop this stupid lofton experiment NOW.

At least with repko or ross they were batting towards the bottom of the lineup.

Yay Zig. I'm sooo glad he's off the DL

214

It is Easter Sunday and a lot of people have family obligations.

As for that DP, I don't believe I have ever in my life seen that happen.

Actually I'm guessing 44,000 - 46,000 tonight

What just happened?

Who would turn out with Joe broadcasting-
its a loss!

228 Me too. That's a first.

220 - Durham probably yelled at him to do it.

Something in that 4-6-5 double play tells me this is going to be a long, long season.

230 Durham tossed to Vizquel to get the lead out, then Vizquel threw it to 3rd instead of 1st because Ross had rounded the bag too much

230

For those not watching, Lofton bounced to Durham at second, who forced Furcal at second. Vizquel then turned all the way around and threw to Feliz at third who tagged out Ross who had rounded the base.

212 - take off every Zig for great justice.

229 Yeah, ESPN had a shot of the upper deck way down in left field, which is totally empty. Upon further reflection the crowd looks respectably big.

225-

that's exactly the problem. Lofton shouldn't even be here in the first place. I still can't believe we couldn't have made a better offer for Crisp...heck, I'd be happy to go out and get Freel.

Replaying that in slo-mo a couple of times, I can't see any reason why Vizquel would throw to third rather than first. He could definitely have beaten Lofton with the throw, he wasn't in a position where throwing to third was easier, and furthermore, he put himself in a really bad position to get spiked with the full force of both cleats by spinning rather than jumping.

I think he was just showing off.

235, 236 - Thanks. What a shame.

Damn- I used to use that kind of play in softball. Who played the fool-- Ross?

236 - Cody Ross wasn't more than three steps from the bag. He just wasn't paying attention.

BTW the Dodgers have not exacly done anything noteworthy for the announcers to talk about today.

Ross really didn't round the bag that much and has likely never seen that play either.

Was Kenny Lofton being asked to bunt during that at-bat, or was he doing that himself?

It's nice to hear that Izturis might be our best friend. He refuses to go to the outfield, and we trade him for something useful. I'd like to thank Morgan and Miller for hyping him as one of the "best shortstops in the league!" Raise that value, baby!

246 Morgan said he was bunting for a hit, which seems like it was his idea, but I have no idea. A bunt would have been more productive in hindsight

Ross was like a foot and a half away, and in any case, Vizquel did NOT know before he spun and threw that Ross could be picked off. Ross only reached the base as Vizquel went into his spin.

nice breaking ball by Carter. I'm surprised.

looks like there gonna leave Hennessey in, I hope our guys can get something going again.

246 - I hear Jim Hendry has a few pitching prospects that might do well outside of the cemetary known as Wrigley Field.

246 Every Dodger up to bat tried to bunt the first pitch at least, so I think it was a managerial order.

That didnt surprise me.

this is the right move. "Ham you lack" is less trash then Carter.

The carter and hamulack experiment is annoying too.

The best rationale for Seo's balk is likely this:

It is a balk when,
(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

Since Loney was not holding on Sweeney at first, Seo was just throwing the ball to nowhere in particular, which you can't do.

Ahhh, the old Carter-Hamulack one two punch. Get ready to feel the power of the Dodger bullpen, SFG.

Tim Hamulack, lefthanded specialist.

At least one of those descriptors is accurate.

252 - That's what's so weird about that play;
Why not throw to first?
Why couldn't Ross get back? It looked like he started to dive, but then stopped.

Its the spinning discs that are expensive

I suppose this can't be any worse than Huston Street's performance earlier today. It was the guy's bobblehead day, and he coughed up the save and the game and ended up getting booed by some of the hometown crowd.

Feliz had third blocked off so Ross had nowhere to go unless he wanted to try to take off the guy's head.

Wouldn't it be wonderfully ironic if the lacking ham blows up on Easter?

259 Ross did head back, but he got tagged out about a foot away - the 3B stuck his arm out and got him.

"I don't know what that pitch was..."

The Tim Hamulack experience.

262 He could have gone home, although that likely wouldn't help anything

Thank you umpire.

Dodged a bullet known as carter and hamulack.

what do you guys think of Hamulak? I don't know I kinda dont like his PITCH SELECTION at times.

I ate my Easter dinner already. I had salmon. I cannot tolerate ham.

Since I like seafood so much more than meat, the whole Lenten sacrifice thing confused me as a kid.

True. Every now and then a team does mess up a rundown, or he could have barrelled over Matheny the sub-.200 hitting wonder. After all, don't the Giants claim that he's starting because he's such an amazing defensive catcher?

269 - You mean you don't like the Hamulak mystery pitch?

yeah like somebody said the "hamulak experience" LOL!

254-

There's lots of stuff that needs to be fixed that Ned seems to think is okay.

#1 Carter stinks. The guy really does...and now with Gagne AND Brazo out he takes a stronger role...I'm sorry, but he shouldn't be in during real tight situations.

#2 We need some production out of first base. Everyone loves Loney but the bottom line is that he can't hit yet and we have no idea what's going on with Nomar. If we had a power hitter at third it wouldn't matter as much, but we don't. It amazes me that year after year we manage to not go out and get that extra power hitter that we need.

269-

I prefer his Extremely Straight Fastball to his Floating On A Tee Curveball, but find his Barely Moving Slider to be the best pitch of all in his arsenal.

The closed captioner just transcribed "Compton" as "Kenny Loftonon".

Good start, Drew on base.

274

Exactly, i agree.

Oh Hell.

Ouch. Hope he's ok!

Is that the season flashing before Kent's eyes? Or was it chirping birds?

That doesn't look good

I think that pitch just got away from Hennessey and curved unexpectedly. Even Kent didn't think it was going to hit him until it did.

256.
It is a balk when,
(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play...

--but 1st was occupied. Or is the point that the throw in question couldn't have been for the purpose of making a play?

"Their best hitter is on the ground and they're talking about barry"

The irony Joe Morgan.

Did you guys see the non chilont face on Hennessey?

Kent looks really shook up.

Of course its Kent's fault he gets hit in the head. The wisdom of Joe Morgan.

Where was Kent hit?

I have to say that the last 2 years, I have seen the strangest injuries inflict the Dodgers in my 30 years watching this team

Where was Kent hit?

back of the head.

285 I was just thinking that myself, nate.

285 - Yeah. The best part about that was that that chant was clearly a "Giants !" chant.

286 - I believe the word is "nonchalant".

288 Just above his left eye as best as I could tell

Isn't this te second time in two days Cruz has been forced to bunt?

284

I think that since Loney wasn't in a position to make a play, it had to be a balk.

I've seen that called before.

I've also seen first basemen run in to make a play, but those are usually called plays. I remember a Saturday afternoon Game of the Week where the Billy Martin A's had the bases loaded with 2 outs and a 3-2 count with Tippy Martinez pitching. Rickey Henderson was on first and he ran in and grabbed a pickoff throw and ended the inning.

Rickey didn't like that.

if i were the giants, i would walk mueller to get to loney.

285, 291 - when ESPN signs Jeff Kent to his own reality show, you can be assured they will work in discussions of motocross.

Hennessey's lost it boys!!!!

294 From what I saw on the slo-mo replay, it was on the side, pretty close to the front.

Isn't this te second time in two days Cruz has been forced to bunt?

When your Proven 100-RBI Guy is hurt, you gotta score runs any way you can...

He is out of here, not close

Actually now I think its about 48,000

Morgan: "that worked out well for the Dodgers"--as if bunts are a random event....who could anticipate the next better would have the platoon advantage?

the unintentional, intentional. good move.

and bringing in the sinker baller to a batter that has grounded into like 5 DPs already is another good move.

i just hope loney surprises me here with at least a sac fly.

Time for Loney to earn his Dodger Blue...

Don't worry folks; Joe Morgan explained how Kent's getting hit in the head worked out really well for the Dodgers. If you all put your computers away and listened to him, you'd feel better about the whole thing.

The bunt looks like it did more damage than it will help. Hope Loney can do something other than a soft grounder to an infielder

Alou sucks. Hennessey should've been taken out earlier.

Of course, if it were Tracy, Hennessey wouldn't have been pulled until after he'd coughed up the lead, so Alou's a rung above him on the ladder, that's for sure.

They don't believe Loney is goint to bat do they?

OT - Why did Robin Williams make a movie that usually a Eugene Levy type actor stars in.

288,290 - It looked like it was above the left ear.

Is a Tomato sighting on the way?

I had to turn this game on mute. Joe Morgan really might be the worst announcer I've heard in my life.

Wait, its probably McCarver. Imagine a game with Morgan and McCarver...I think that'd tear a whole in the space/time continuum.

Ledee does not run better than Loney, no matter what Morgan thinks

Nope, its Ricky Ledee time

Is Loney being pinch-hit for?

313 No, it's the "fine pinch hitter", Ricky Ledee.

Shut up, Morgan.

296.
thanks, Bob!
[PS--cut @ paste #s for links to previous posts?]

Apparently so.

311
That movie looked absolutely horrendous. Guess he's hurting for cash or something.

this is beyong irritating to watch...any time you have the bases loaded with less than two outs you HAVE to score at least one run.

So much for our "fine pinch hitter", batting .234 as a PH before this strikeout.

Do I prep for the last ten weeks of the semester? Or do I follow game online?

The latter, thank you.

318
Ha!
is career .234 "fine"?
will Joe comment on that graphic?
these are rhetorical questions, sports fans...

how do you strike out on just 88 mph fastballs?

Munter is really ugly. please no more close ups of his face.

The Tomato is on deck.

Well here is the money pitch.......

good eye, dioner...

the Rookie blows it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that pitch was in the wheel house! Pity.

Yeeaahhh.... I think I'll prep.

can we just go out and get Dunn already? If I have to watch many more 2-0 games I'm going to have a heart attack.

326-

Because they were "exploding" up in the zone!

Good thing Cruz bunted. Can't afford to let him swing away in that position.

Morgan has the Giants beating the Dodgers with two innings left to play on the Go Giants Network.

The Giants pitcher is shaky & Navarro swings at a 3-1 count!! oh man!!!!

Online, the pitch looked to be in the house of wheels...

It was a good pitch to drive, but Navarro just doesn't have much power, does he? At 3-1 I would have preferred him to take the strike and see what happened on the 3-2 pitch.

"LOB" has to be saddest acronym baseball has.

You gotta take those pitches Navarro!

I might have pinch-hit Alomar for Navarro.

Gimme a break!

LOL!

338 If you can't swing 3-1 when the ball is in your wheelhouse when the heck do you swing. Navarro knew he could crush the ball, did you see his frustration when he popped it up.

337 Morgan? Slighting the Dodgers? Surely you jest...

I believe that ejection is not the worst thing that could happen.

This just in: I love Tim Hamulack. What grit!

What? He's just doing us a favor, but Hamulack didn't deserve to be kicked out

With our offense, the game is about over. I would like to see some more giants HBPs.

I'm not one for intentional retaliation when it's obvious the opposition pitcher was losing it instead of trying to plunk the guy.

If he was tryin to hit Barry, he wouldn't have hit him on the armor.

Something I did not know until now: LOB is cumulative. Meaning, I guess, that Ledee and Navarro have added six men to the Dodgers LOB column, instead of just the three that were LOB at the end of the inning.

Or am I wrong?

these umps blow my mind. Give the warnings after we bean a guy....so they drill our guy in the head, and we give barry a love tap on the tricep and OUR guy gets thrown out? Unbelievable.

I really don't think that was retaliation for Kent...looks like a typical Hamulack weird pitch that got away from him.

And hit Bonds on his elbow armor, to boot.

what do you guys think? (was it intentional)

353 - the replay showed the ball hitting his biceps.

Okay, forget my 354 query... wha happened?

But this is more like an old school Dodgers-Giants game. All we need now is Scott Munter to go after Dioner Navarro with a bat.

356 - on the first pitch??? Retaliation.

it bonds on the bicep right above the elbow armor. I think there will be a nice little rasperry there tomorrow morning when bonds wakes up.

354 You're looking at Gameday, aren't you? The actual LOB is at the bottom of the hitters box, not that number in the box score for each hitter. I have no clue why Gameday does that.

so if "kwo" is the correct pronunciation [I'm a visitor from Bronx Banter] "Status" Kuo would be among the greatest of set-up man nicknames...

call me crazy but I kinda like that! way to go Hamulak!!

363 Thanks. And yes, I'm looking at Gameday while the wife watches season 3 of the Gilmore Girls.

Ouch.

358 It hit him on the back of the arm. As has already been noted, that is the tricep.

364 - dead and buried already.

All retaliation is good retaliation.

I guess it's against the rules now to pitch inside to Bonds. I didn't catch that rules-change.

364 I think it's "koo-oh" but I could be wrong. I like your idea, though...

Hamulack was definitely aiming for Bonds. And even though Hennessey may have just hit Kent because he was wild, Hamulack likely has earned Brownie points with his teammates.

And if he were on Washington, he'd be 10 HBPs away from getting a free dinner courtesy of the Jose Guillen Frequent Beanballer Program.

367 Yeah but with steroids the bicep muscle wraps all the way around, right?

Kuo with another frighteningly high pitchout (after four in an intentional walk on, I think, Friday). I think he needs some practice.

I know there was a reason for signing Sandy Alomar, Jr. What was it?

Everybody says "Kuo" with a "K", but it really starts with more of a "G" sound according to Chinese speakers I've asked.

Woah, so Grady pulls Loney, Navarro, Kent, and Ham-u-lack for Saenz but not his bat, Alomar, Lucille and a LHP to face Moises Alou? Did I get that right?

....why????

Did Navarro catch Phillip's "can't throw anyone out" disease?

Nice throw for Alomar, good chance he got the gopher right behind the pitcher's mound, although I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to eradicate some gophers

367 - looked to me like it was more like the side. But whatever, I'm no anatomist.

I would normally believe it was retaliation, but the ball looked like it slipped out of his hand on the replay.

Unless Hamulack is just that good.

375 Alomar is there to back up Martin once we send Dioner back down to Vegas.

I'm probably the only person here who thinks this, but I think we should package Loney, Navarro, and Izturis for a good return. Navarro isn't our future with Martin anyways, and Loney never pojects to be anything more than an average hitter at best...and Izzy simply has no spot to play.

Either way, something needs to be done because our bullpen stinks and our offense isn't good, yet again.

This is the first time I've seen Kuo.

I've had enough of him for this game.

Anyone think Flanders has mixed emotions in these games?

Holy awfulness -- "Gagne will never throw as hard as he once did"? Never heard that before...

i dont understand that 3-2 slider call.

go with your best pitch.

Query: If a pitcher is ejected, does his replacement get to warm up with as many pitches as necessary, such as when a pitcher gets hurt?

381- Hamulack is not only just that good, he's better. I wonder if they make a Hamulack t-shirt.

388
Yes. The pitcher can take his time warming up.

needed that.

Kuo is 1/3rd of the way to proving me wrong. Come on, Kuo!

384 - the K wasn't so bad, was it?

What a weird, weird game.

Bob, did Kuo go to the WBC?

well it wasn't for his throwing! scareduck :o)

.03
When a pitcher takes his position at the beginning of each inning, or when he relieves another pitcher, he shall be permitted to pitch not to exceed eight preparatory pitches to his catcher during which play shall be suspended. A league by its own action may limit the number of preparatory pitches to less than eight preparatory pitches. Such preparatory pitches shall not consume more than one minute of time. If a sudden emergency causes a pitcher to be summoned into the game without any opportunity to warm up, the umpire in chief shall allow him as many pitches as the umpire deems necessary.

GIDP. Very nice.

Kuo was in the WBC. That's where I learned his last name was pronounced "Go".

He was so-so. Taiwan's team was pretty bad.

PLEASE DODGERS!! let's score some runs!!!

Gracy blew this game. Never, EVER sacrifice bunt. Learn it, know it, live it. When the offense is struggling, outs are especially valuable.

392 - is there some infinitesimal amount that you're scared of Kuo still?

394 Yes, it waived his obligatory military service (same with Hu)

393 Perhaps Kuo heard what I was saying and decided to get his act together!

How much would you have gotten if you bet that Bonds would not have hit a home run this weekend. I thought he was good for at least one but he does not have that same swing he's had for the last 5 years.

396 Thanks for that.

this is a HUGE inning! Let's get some runs now!

that performance was kuopasetic.

400-

yeah, it's not very savvy to have your #5 man sac bunting with two on and no outs...you're giving up an out AND taking the bat out of the hands of one of your better hitters.

404 I heard that he has floating elbow chips that are causing him pain. If they get worse, he might retire ASAP.

I'm thinking of starting a fan club for elbow chips.

401 I'm happy Kuo got out of the inning, but I still need to see him more than once before I form an opinion on him one way or another. This particular game, I was only concerned that whatever he has, he didn't seem to have it tonight, but nor was I writing him off in general. Likewise, I'm not going to decide he's a great relief pitcher just because he got out of this inning until I've seen him some more...

407 :)

Hey Pedro Gomez, you forgot the third theory.

"The right elbow is not the left elbow." And they get paid for this.

Nice of Furcal to help out the team by trying to take out Lofton...

Hamulack needs to come back out and hit Pedro Gomez.

Let's send Furcal no guys? (steal a base)

I think Kuo and Hu fulfilled their military service per a note from Ken Gurnick.

"Kuo came to Spring Training this year as a long shot to make the club. Participating for Taiwan in the Classic didn't help the new staff's evaluations, although he said his decision was a no-brainer: represent his country while satisfying a military obligation that had been deferred while he chased his baseball dream."

411 - I used that yesterday... can anybody else claim earlier usage?

you said >>Hamulack needs to come back out and hit Pedro Gomez.<<

LOL!! hahahahahaha!!

418 You get a more original :).

These Jetta commercials are freaky

I wouldnt send furcal. you need 2 runs, not one.

The speed of Kenny Lofton saves a double play.

Who's doubting Ned now?

Lofton's just practicing. One day, he'll be able to hit into double plays with every at bat.

408

And you allow the defense to dictate how the inning will proceed, giving them the chance to get out of it facing only one batter instead of two or three. Even if Cruz had hit into a double play, we'd be better off with a runner on third and Mueller batting.

I'll personally donate 100 bucks to the "get rid of Lofton now" campaign fund.

That guy is going to be a thorn in our sides this entire year.

I do kind of enjoy Lofton bugging his eyes out slightly at Kline. He's definitely getting to Kline.

Having Jeff kent in this situation would be real swell.

421 - Isn't there an "Alias" commercial nowadays that is the exact same thing?

Wow, Kenny Lofton with some Rickey-style disruption...and now there are two men on for everyone's favorite 2B...

Is bringing a new pitcher to face Martinez really needed?

Drew should thank Lofton for getting him that walk.

Although I'll gladly donate to the "get rid of Lofton now" campaign fund as well.

426

Count me in with a donation.

Drew got the benefit of the doubt there.

what with all the injuries and second-guessing, I could easily see a Kuo-dependent situation developing in the Dodger bullpen...

Giants pitchers have walked 14 and hit a batter in the last two games.

In which the Dodgers have scored 3 runs.

You guys are ragging on a fellow Wildcat here. Lofton was a heckuva point guard for Arizona, back in his day.

you said >>would be real swell.<<

"groovey" natepurcell! :o)

426, 403-432: Excellent. Paypal your money to me, and I'll spearhead the opperation.

We're leaving alot of guys on base man!!

426 - At $23,765 per game, you've got a long way to go to replace his salary.

Ouch. Two typos in one post. Maybe I'm not the best leader for the project.

And the Worrell Bros.' domination at Dodger Stadium continues...

Thanks a lot, Martinez...

I can't stand Worrell! (sp?) he's one of those guys you think batters would whale on!!

440- Salary replacement is one way to go. But I was thinking more along the lines of remote prayer. Something that was free, so I could pocket the love offerings. But I'm just spitballing, here.

What was it Stengel said about the '62 Mets? Oh, yeah. "Can't anyone here play this game?"

We're leaving alot of guys on base man!!

there's no reason to be surprised over this. We have Navarro who can't hit, Loney who can't hit, and a pitcher in our lineup. That's 1/3 of the lineup right there. Not to mention our only power threats are Drew and Kent and Drew isn't even THAT much of a power threat.

The bottom line is we need someone...whether it be Dunn or Cabrera etc etc. if we really want to do some damage. Otherwise, we're going to have to endure a lot of 2-1 games in the future...

Why would Baez be warming to pitch in his third straight game?

This, again, is not a Save Situation®

I'm not a fan of Lofton but I'll fight to the death to keep him if it means keeping the minor leaguers on the bench. Didn't we learn anything last year? Repko and Ross are career utility players at best.

That at-bat might not have been Martinez' fault. The runners were going, he might have been trying to protect them.

Little has done an awful job managing today but I thought warming up Baez would be applauded.

The Giant network FINNALY Giving props to our boys!

And now, apparently, it's time to review Bonds's day...

Oooo, Lofton seemed to be gimping his way towards that. Perhaps a few days of rest on the bench is not far off. (I can't quite wish the DL on any Dodger.)

454 - and to think, I was about to notify Jon that Lofton's position on the sidebar was incorrect.

WELL LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS!

My Tivo just switched over to Cold Case. Apparently the Dodgers' chances are deader than the body of the week.

[418] did you? sorry, i didn't see it, rob. i thought of it a few days ago but have been saving it for an appropriate occasion, hehe.

449-

you're absolutely right, and even though I don't dislike Ned, it shows his absolute failure with our CF situation. We gave away a great CF AND a good utility player for a minor leaguer. If you're giving up a really solid every day center fielder you HAVE to get at least one major leaguer back. Then we go out and sign Lofton which is basically a minus...so when he gets hurt because he's 90 years old, we have to go with guys who shouldn't be starting.

I find it very hard to believe that we couldn't have made a better offer someone like Crisp. Heck, we could probably go out and get Ryan Freel right now. I wouldn't mind having him in center...he's better than Lofton, Repko, and Ross. The way the CF situation has been handled is almost embarrassing.

Those yellow seats behind home plate are really ugly.

I find it very hard to believe that we couldn't have made a better offer someone like Crisp.

crisp would have cost andy laroche and probably something else.

Glad I missed that one. Good night, ladies.

The Giants have players who know how to win.

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

Losing to the Giants hurts alot more!!! I don't feel good right now!

449- I was only in it for the money. I think Lofton will be useful, though much less usefull than he was last year. If Repko can sustain his case for being a platoon partner, CF could be a strong point for the team. But, then, I think Garciaparra could come around to being useful, too. That said, I'd much rather they didn't come back next year, no matter what they do this year.

I don't know guys but loosing to the Giants STINGS MORE!!

463 They also have a highly paid slugger who does his job of weak groundouts to first.

Gah, I hate losing to the Giants.

Bluebleeder--88 Hershiser: Please don't do that again.

The Giants have turned into the 2003 Dodgers.

477 And have we turned into the Giants?

I like how every ESPN analysist avoids the "Barry can't hit home runs because he's roided" possibility.

479
Yeah. Baseball should be pretty embarrassed right now that the Post-Roid-Crackdown-Bonds can barely get the ball out of the infield.

From great hitting no pitching to
great pitching no hitting in one series.
I'm not surprised.

But I'm happy because I sense Boras is not doing well in the perception dept.

Its the little things.

The thing is, I don't know why they do. The man admitted he took steroids (even if it was "accidental") so even if you discount the overwhelming evidence it's not like it would be speculation.

543890 runners and no runs.

This season is going to be really depressing, isn't it?

482
It is pretty ridiculous.

479 What's to avoid? We learned today that it's not Bonds's job to hit home runs anyway.

Wow. The rare non(t)uple post.

you said >>Bluebleeder--88 Hershiser: Please don't do that again.<<

I can't stand loosing to the giants. I don't feel good right now.

I can't stand loosing to the giants. I don't feel good right now.

I can't stand loosing to the giants. I don't feel good right now.

JUST KIDDING!! :o)

Gotta give Motel 6 credit for their computerized voice commercial.

I don't know why you guys are all over Bonds right now. Didn't you see that productive at-bat he had, getting the runner to third with only one out? You need to listen more to Miller & Morgan for a better understanding of baseball. Barry did his job as usual.

482 But you see, that would open the door to the "steroids does have an effect on performance" argument, which Bonds apologists always disagree with. It goes like this: Bonds didn't take steroids. And even if he did, it didn't help him hit any more home runs than otherwise.

490
Steroids don't kill baseballs: muscles do.

You said >>Gotta give Motel 6 credit for their computerized voice commercial.<<

have you gotten the computerized WAKE UP CALL from motel 6? It says "congradulation you've just won 10,000000.00 million dollars" NOT FUNNY FOR A POOR GUY LIKE ME!!

489 - What's astounding to me is that Barry Bonds basically dominated all of the cut footage (going into and coming out of commercial breaks), despite doing effectively nothing all game.

Thank you ESPN once again for making the story, instead of reporting it.

493 And they even managed to do a special montage of Bonds doing effectively nothing all game.

Well now that you guys have determined that Bonds is done what else have we learned in the first two week? Chris Shelton is the greatest player who ever lived, the Mets are going to go 132-30, if Bronson Arroyo can pitch a full season he will hit about 44 home runs, and Oscar Villarreal has a chance to win 40 games this season despite not actually starting a game.

ESPN has found a way to make baseball games into a cross-promotion for a crappy reality t.v. show. It's like when the news does a story on a new sitcom, or when ABC news covers the opening of a Disney movie. It's a commercial.

495 I don't know if Bonds is done. He's certainly not going to put up the kind of numbers we've seen in seasons past, although how much of that is due to age and injuries and how much because he's off steroids is up for debate. But the point is, he did nothing this game, and yet ESPN showcased him incessantly instead of focusing on players who actually had an impact on this game. Unless one considers that "productive out" to be a real impact.

Like Andrew Shimmin says above, it's a commercial.

494 - Heh, right. It was like watching somebody's really boring home videos. "And here's Barry flying out to center field. Ooh, ooh, and here's Barry hitting a weak ground ball... But it was such a PRODUCTIVE out! And here's where that big mean Timmy down the block hit Barry just above his massive plastic arm cocoon... Why, he almost made my little Bondsy CRY! At least the umpire threw that naughty boy right out, yes he did."

Sheesh.

495 - Also Jason Repko can be expected to OPS well into the .900s, Sandy Alomar and Cody Ross will both hit over .450, and Nomar Garciaparra will spend most of the season on the DL.

Wait, you know what, that last one could NEVER happen.

Not only did the Dodgers contain Bonds this series, they pretty much stopped him.

500?

498 No one could have predicted Nomar would spend time on the DL this season...

Natepurcell,
Why is Scott Elbert not pitching at Vero Beach?
Is he on the DL?
Also I see the Dodgers got Mike Mcgrew back.

501 - Actually, I heard Nostradamus did. But he's the only one.

I always wanted to hit 500!

I happen to know that there is a bit of a row over at ESPN over the Bonds thang. The problem is that they have contracted themselves to the independent company producing the reality show and there is a school of thought that backing out opens the network to lawsuits. Think about it: you refuse to air a program because the guy essentially did nothing wrong.

Now, there is another school of thought, led largely by producers and talent, that the Bonds reality show makes the network look like a cheerleader for a man who may be (and probably is) a steroid user and a perjurer. This does not make a network look good and several people at ESPN know this.

For what it's worth...

elbert is pitching in Vero. He has made two starts already and i think he starts againi the next time VB plays.

his line on the season so far

9IP 7H 1ER 0HR 5bb 6k 1.00era

Remember, one more loss yesterday means one less loss tomorrow.

Perusing the box score, I wonder under what conditions would Jose Cruz be bunting? I suppose it is supply and demand -- if you flood the market with outs, they ultimately lose value, and become free.

506
Would you rather Cruz bunt or GIDP?

Well, smart guy...?

Nate,Thanks I guess I haven't been paying that close of attention.It seems alot of the low minors guys aren't hitting much(Laroche,Kemp,Ruggiano,Raglani,Denker,Dewitt,etc)
but I guess the season's young.I have 5 Suns games later in May I can go to.

504 - How about the fact that the ESPN network holds significant sway over the monetary value for any individual athlete in terms of endorsements (more exposure on ESPN = more national/international recognition = more bargaining power on endorsement deals), and shouldn't be involving themselves in ANY of this 'sportstainment' nonsense whatsoever, as it removes them from the position of impartial observer reporting the news. It's bad enough when they focus on teams ("Knight School"), but worse when they focus on individuals. I'm not talking about in-depth sports pieces. I'm talking about completely unrelated reality shows.

That's not even getting anywhere near college sports, where the network has completely lost any sort of moral responsibility. Does anybody else here recall the "USC greatest team ever" discussions BEFORE they played Texas? The 7 days a week coverage of the Trojan football team in the couple of weeks leading up to the Rose Bowl, while the Longhorns got significantly less exposure? Because the last time I checked, they lost that game.

Though hey, at least USC came in 3rd or 4th on their 'greatest ever' list. That has to count for something, right?

Note: this is not an indictment of USC - they should take all the coverage they can get. But seriously, how are other schools going to be able to compete in terms of recruiting? "Come to USC, and you'll have TV cameras following you around everywhere you go, and we can guarentee that even if you never play a down you'll get drafted in the 7th round of the NFL draft."

-shrug- I'm not a big fan of the folks up in Bristol.

I'd rather just pretend 2005-2006 never happened, and we get right to 2007.

510 - If 2005 and 2006 never happened, does that mean we can get rid of Flanders, because he never actually got hired?

I'd like to pretend Jeff Kent never wore a Dodger uniform.

504 Thanks for the insight. I'm guessing that Joe Morgan isn't part of the producers-and-talent group that thinks this is embarrassing to the network, however.

I don't think they should cancel the Bonds reality show, unless it's drawing the kind of ratings that would get any other ESPN show cancelled, and I don't know if it is or not. But it seems to me that there is a middle ground here between cancelling the show and turning Giants games into one big commercial. Granted, Morgan probably can say whatever he wants, but there's all the "cut" footage, the montage, and such which made the game story about Bonds even though he played no real role in the game tonight. Now if they'd made the story about how Bonds was doing nothing this game, that would at least have had the virtue of being grounded in facts, but instead we get the outright skewing.

I can understand ESPN focusing on Bonds all game. This is a nationally televised game. Besides Giants and Dodgers fans, most of the other people watching are tuning in to see Bonds.

Grits is proving to be a worse in game manager than Jimbo. Not pinch hitting for Lofton with Repko was inexcusable.

The umpires were awful in the series. If Hamulack really wanted to hit Bonds intentionally, you would think that he'd drill him in the back, not right above his elbow armor. Ned might be frustrated with the team's bullpen, but I'm a lot more worried about the lack of power. Bill Mueller is a nice player, but you need power from the corners. We can't afford to have a guy like Loney in the lineup, considering that we have almost no power at other positions and since 1st base is typically one of the easiest positions to find power hitters. Releasing Choi and giving away Bradley are really starting to come back to haunt Ned.

re 508

our guys in the low minors havent really hit a lick so far. Hu is currently hitting .344 or something with a pretty good ISOp. Dewitt, laroche and hu have been controlling the strike zone pretty well. Russ Mitchell down in columbus has a very nice line of .400/.607/.357. Although he is a bit old at 21.

other then those players, everyone else seems to be struggling so far at this period in the season.

511 -- It would also mean we could get Jackson and Tiffany back.

Not pinch hitting for Lofton with Repko was inexcusable.

This will require some explanation, though I assume it has something to do with a LOOGY.

The umpires were awful in the series.

No explanation required. They are awful in every series.

oops, it should be .357.400/.607/

Repko couldn't pinch hit for Lofton because he was the last guy on the bench.

517 - Yeah, I was just about to ask for a clarification on that one.

Weird scoring ruling of the night.

Since the DP Lofton hit into went 4-6-5, he doesn't get credited with a GIDP. Is has to be a force at both bases or one where the tag is at second base.

Cruz bunting, Lofton batting 2nd, no power throughout the lineup...

Its as if Jim Tracy never left and DePo was never the GM.

Releasing Choi and giving away Bradley are really starting to come back to haunt Ned.

It'll hurt worse in 2007. Alot worse.

maybe colletti will redeem himself by trading for miguel cabrera within the next year giving up anyone but billingsley.

523 - Repko, Lofton, and Loney for Miggy.

"Midas" will make it happen. Just believe.

what will happen first, bonds hitting his first homerun or joel guzman getting his first walk?

or Tim Hamulack getting his first DFA

Takashi Saito is the Dodgers first ever designated smokejumper.

From Dodgers.com

Saito's roles: Manager Grady Little has liked Takashi Saito from early in Spring Training, and he likes him so much now, he's using him in two roles.

Little said Saito will be used sometimes as a setup man for closer Danys Baez and sometimes earlier in games to extricate the club from jams with runners on base.

"Sometimes you save the game in the sixth or seventh inning," said Little. "We just have to be careful we don't use him too much."

Little used Saito on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and was hoping to stay away from the Japanese import Sunday night. He said left-handers Hong-Chih Kuo and Tim Hamulack could assume the setup role when Saito is unavailable.

526- Bite your tongue!

I'm a lot more worried about the lack of power. Bill Mueller is a nice player, but you need power from the corners. We can't afford to have a guy like Loney in the lineup, considering that we have almost no power at other positions and since 1st base is typically one of the easiest positions to find power hitters. Releasing Choi and giving away Bradley are really starting to come back to haunt Ned.

That's what i was preaching all offseason.
So i agree.

you need power from the corners.

Nomar still owes us nine home runs, so what are we worried about?

509 - Just wait until they drive the best player off your NFC Champion and to their biggest rivals in their neverending quest to create the news they report on...

527 - Why not use Kuo as the smokejumper? He even impressed M&M tonight, no?

530 - Wasn't Loney supposed to hit those 9?

Rosenthal mentions that the Marlins are interested in Cody Ross. There's probably not a lot for them to give us, but you never know, and they have plenty of pitching prospects to spare

cody ross could be the missing element in a miguel cabrera deal.

532- Welcome home Matt Herges! Or, dare we even dream? Joe Borowski?

529-

I'm going to disagree because I don't think you need power from any specific position. For exmaple, we can just say Kent's power at 2B makes up for the lack of power at 3B. The problem, in my view, is that you just need the power no matter where it comes from.

Having Mueller, Loney, Furcal, Lofton, Navarro in the lineup doesn't give us the power we need. I love Mueller and Furcal, don't get me wrong...they play their roles well. But, we need someone in the middle of the order. I think Ned would be insane not to go after Cabrera...give up anyone but Billingsley. I'd have no problem giving up Guzman and another prospect or two...we're talking about a top ten hitter in the game. If you could put Cabrera in the middle of the lineup with Drew, Kent, Cruz and hopefully Nomar we'd be fine.

Other than that...I wouldn't mind nabbing Freel for CF...I just don't think Loney is going to cut it...so if Nomar isn't back, we may need to get someone for 1B. We just can't afford that lack of offense in the lineup.

. I'd have no problem giving up Guzman and another prospect or two...we're talking about a top ten hitter in the game.

from one of the most avid dodger prospect fans on here, i agree. Giving up guzman and even russ martin for miguel cabrera would draw massive praise from me.

536-

I'm a firm believer in keeping the prospects. The only time I have a problem dealing them is if it's for a rental or an average player.

If you can nab one of the league's best, you HAVE to pull the trigger

535-

Ryan Freel? Really? Aside from speed is he even any good?

538 Yes, unlike his scrappy brethren, he can actually get on base. (.375 OBP in 2004, .371 in 2005).

538-

he's young, cheap, and has shown good numbers in the two seasons he's played a good amount of games. He has been injury prone in the past, but he's already off to a good start this year as well.

He also had two seasons with 37 and 36 steals....gets on base...in other words, better than the 87 year old lofton aka GIDP

Just wait until they drive the best player off your NFC Champion and to their biggest rivals in their neverending quest to create the news they report on...

I think that exact thing happened with the Lakers last year.

the reds wouldnt trade him. hes the "heart and soul" of cinci.

542

I'm still down for Adam Dunn.

542-

the reds really baffle me...they don't play freel every day, and last year they had Dunn bat 6th a large portion of the time. Completely illogical.

543

Now he can play first base.

I don't even think cabrerra can salvage the season for the dodgers.
So no thanks, i'd rather build for 2007 and beyond.
Haven't we learned our lesson.

Freel is 30. He's young relative to Lofton, but not young young. We're the Dodgers; we give up on people if they're not all-stars by 22.

well, cabrera isnt a free agent until after the 2009 season. so it still would be for 2007 and beyond.

Let's be fair about calling Lofton Mr. GIDP. Last year he had the 4th lowest GIDP percentage in baseball. That's probably a bit of a fluke (the years before he was 89th and 119th) but that's still above average.

Cabrerra would be a pretty good place to start building for 2007 and beyond.

Yea but first the marlins will demand billingsley and guzman and probably another top prospect.
1 player (cabrerra) minus 2 or 3 top prospects = net loss.

549- Party Pooper.

551- You tricked me into doing it too (that's the story I'm going with, anyway), but it's spelled Cabrera.

Cabrerra for izturis, navarro, repko, hu, orenduff, or similar players then we're talkin.

To me billingsley, guzman, ethier, martin, laroche, broxton are all off limits.

The free agent market this coming season is thin again, and we will have to fill alot of holes.

why is Guzman off limits for Cabrera?

also. the difference between Martin and Navarro is very negligible so throwing in the superior catching prospect in a trade to get a vastly superior bat would probably be a net benefit in the long run.

Wow. Dontrelle Willis is more than 20% of the Marlins Payroll. He's the guy who needs to go. If they can work Moehler into the package, the Marlins will not have a single million dollar a year player.

why is Guzman off limits for Cabrera?

No outfielders on the free agent market that i'm interested in.
And the only outfielder on our roster right now that i'm totally satisfied with is drew, but i also like cruz.

After this season, Miguel is going to be making somewhere between 3-4.5 mil. So if the Marlins stadium situation is resolved by December, you could possibly see both players being traded.

the difference between Martin and Navarro is very negligible

I don't agree with that.

558

but if you trade guzman in a package for cabrera, cabrera probably moves to LF, where guzman would have played.

I wonder if Bob's request line is open all night. What was the last team to have not a single player making a million dollars a year?

561

Sorry about being firm on this but anyway i look at it, it is a net loss.

275/.352/.400

.280/.391/419

those are minor league numbers for both martin and navarro. Navarro also was younger then martin in each level of competition. Asking for Martin over navarro should not be a holding point in a deal when you are dealing with miguel cabrera type players.

Sorry about being firm on this but anyway i look at it, it is a net loss.

how is it a net loss?

We're gonna need those triple-a guys.

They can have any of hu, abreu, diaz, kemp, orenduff, dewitt, young, aybar and any other lower level prospects i missed (i know young and aybar are in AAA) plus if they want any of the junk we have on the team right now like izturis, repko, ross, lofton, martinez, carter, hamulack, osoria, tomko, and navarro (navarro is not junk tho).

551 - "1 player (cabrerra) minus 2 or 3 top prospects = net loss."

While I love many of our farm players, I can't agree with this statement. Prospects are great, but that's still all they are - prospects. Just think of it this way: remember when Edwin Jackson came in during the latter parts of the end of, what was it, 2003? He was a fireball-throwing, "can't-miss" prospect who outdueled Randy Johnson in what I believe was his first professional start. HIs last start would be 6 sccoreless innings against the Giants, where he struck out 7, including one at bat where he made Bonds look just silly (rather like Broxton v. Pujols, methinks) He started 3 games, in which his ERA was under 2.5. He was 19 at the time.

We just traded him and Chuck Tiffany for Baez and Carter. Point being that players don't always pan out. A player like a Miguel Cabrera, e.g. a top-25 (top 10 might be pushing it a bit, though he was ranked 8th last year for all positional players in VORP) player is very rare. 'Top 25' means that arguably he should be the, or very nearly as good as the, best player on almost every team in the country. Even with certain fluke possibilities, it's very difficult to argue against getting a guarenteed star, even if it means giving up two possible stars.

Sure, I remember the Pedro trade - losing arguably the most dominant pitcher in the league for a several-year stretch. But by the same token, there have been plenty of 'homegrown' prospects that haven't really panned out but had a fair amount of positive press and could have likely gotten more when they were still in the minors than they ended up gaining for the Dodgers once they hit the major leagues.

Plus, it's not like Cabrera's an aging player on the decline. He's 22. If anything, he is effectively a 'best-case' scenario for a player like Guzman or LaRoche. And if you really think that both JtD and LaRoche are "can't-miss" to end up like Miguel Cabrera, the best hitters in the country within the next couple of years, I would like the number of your kool-aid dispenser because you have way more faith in our prospects than I do (I think one of them probably will end up very good, and both should be solid, but I'd trade two 'solid' players for a 10-year All Star).

You do a swell job of elaborating my point Underbruin :)

568 - Heh, thanks. We said very close to the same thing, mine just took a lot more letters. =P

I'd give up anyone on the team or in our farm for Cabrera. The guy is not quite the next Pujols, but he's close. He also just fired Scott Boras as his agent, so if we did trade for him, we'd probably be able to lock him up longterm (kind of like what the Cardinals did with Pujols). I think Cabrera is the one guy that the Marlins are going to keep. I expect them to deal Willis at the deadline.

If Cabrera can be gotten in a slag heap deal (like Sexon to the D'Backs), then good on Colletti. If it takes JtD to get it done, a blessing on Colletti's house. But if he throws in Hamulack, I'll see him in hell.

571 - "...I'll see him in hell."

Stuck for all eternity with only Ned Colletti for company? Don't give the devil any suggestions, please.

Sexson. Might be time for bed.

I think I found the last team to have no players making at least a million dollars. 1992 Indians. They had a better record than the Dodgers did last year. Kenny Lofton and Sandy Alomar were both on that team, as were old friends Jose Hernandez and Jeff Shaw.

The obvious postscript to that story is, they got their new stadium in 1994. See Marlins? Send us Cabrera and Moehler and you'll get your new stadium. It's win-win!

Ah, Dodger fans and the eternal lust for the "quick fix." Sell the farm, but just do it for the RIGHT guy. The song never changes. The Marlins would only give up Cabrera and Willis if they got a lot more value in exchange. If we ended up with either player in trade, or both, considering what we would have had to give up, it would be a dark day indeed.

And as I predicted would happen, the anti-Loney brigade is starting to wave the flag. He needs his season in Triple A before he will be really ready, but even now the statistical signs are pointing to him being the high average hitter I am expecting. 36 MLB plate appearances so far and only 2 strikeouts, and more walks than strikeouts. Outstanding contact ability for someone who is probably a year short of belonging in the majors. Loney's batting average on balls in play right now is extremely low, so that will inevitably rise over time, and rise a great deal with more experience. Loney turns 22 in less than a month. Konerko was 22 when he hit .215/.272/.306 for the Dodgers through 49 games. Had Dodger Thoughts existed in 1998, I am sure posters would have been moaning and groaning about that. Lasorda certainly hadn't seen anything to make him think twice about dumping Konerko for Jeff Shaw. The next season, in a White Sox uniform, Konerko hit .294/.352/.511 for the full season. I doubt Colletti is going to make the same mistake, especially with Logan White advising him.

576- re-read my post. It's not that I don't like Loney, it's that I don't think he's ready and that Ned made a big mistake getting rid of Choi. I think Loney's ceiling is John Olerud, and Olerud was an excellent player. He just needs a full season in AAA.

On another note, I'd love to see the Dodgers trade for BJ Upton. I know top prospect for top prospect trades are rare, but....
Cesar Izturis, Navarro or Martin, and Elbert or Broxton. I know that's a lot to give and the D-rays still probably wouldn't accept that package, but if there was someway we could acquire BJ Upton without giving up Billingsley or Guzman, we have to do it. Upton is a major league ready hitter right now. He could be our CF for the next decade.

For Cabrera right now I would give up more than most people because he is just 22 and hitting his prime. If I were the Marlins I would insist on Joel Guzman, Andy LaRoche, Dioner Navarro, AND Jonathan Broxton.

The Marlins would be improved and to be honest, so would the Dodgers cuz Cabrera can take over LF or 3B. Cruz can play RF with Drew playing CF. And we can be solid defensively with an IF of Mueller, Furcal, Izturis, and Kent or Mueller, Furcal, Kent, and Loney.

And we get Billingsley, Orenduff, Elbert, etc :)

576- When you say he needs another year in AAA it's the voice of reason. When anybody else does, it's calumny. Konerko had significantly better numbers in the minors, but I'm sure the hypothetical DTers of 1998 would have taken no note of that.

We can keep running this straw poll if you like; show of hands, who wants Loney liquidated? Anyone? Bueller?

I don't understand why you're so desperate for everybody to hate him, but I can't imagine you'll have much success with it. Good luck, though.

577 -- You weren't the guy who completely wrote off Loney. That was Thinkblue, I believe. You want to see what Loney's early MLB career path could look like, especially if Logan White is correct and Loney will hit for power, but just not right away? Take a look at the Blue Jays' Alexis Rios. Like Loney, Rios hit only 11 HR's in Double A, but he was playing at that level a year older than Loney's age last year, and Rios was playing in a much more hitter-friendly league and home park. But the scouting reports on Rios said that he would likely develop HR power down the line. His first season in the majors Rios hit only 1 HR in well over 400 AB's. Last year, his second year in the bigs, Rios hit 10 HR's. In both years Rios' slugging percentage was under .400 while playing a corner outfield position. Predictably, Baseball Prospectus 2006 says the Jays should have traded Rios. Now 10 games into the season, Rios has 4 HR's already. The power developed, just like scouts said it would.

Alex Rios stunk last year, and he stunk the year before, too. Wouldn't it have been better if he'd spent those years on the farm?

279 -- Who did I fault for saying Loney needs to spend most of this year in Triple A? My problem is with people who don't want Loney here next year, or EVER, and those people have certainly spoken up.

Konerko enjoyed hitting in very hitter-friendly parks and leagues in the minors. That is the problem with comparing past Dodger hitting prospects with the current crop. The only time Loney has ever played in a hitter-friendly league (Rookie Ball) he slugged over .600, and injuries have hindered his record, but anyway, my point was about the folly of taking a MAJOR LEAGUE rookie's slow start too seriously, and any way you slice Konerko got off to a slow start, as most rookies do.

580 Not striking out isn't a bad thing, but it's not something I would get too excited about. Most of the dredges of the league like Tony Womack don't strike out all that much either.

No one here wants to just get rid of Loney, he is only 22, but this clearly isn't his time.

581 -- Rios should have spent all of 2004 in Triple A (he was in Double A in 2003), but the Jays rushed him. I have no problem with Rios being in the majors in 2005. You just can't delay players forever in the minors till you think they are SO good they won't have a rough first year. That is being unreasonable and unfair to the player. Dodger fans seem to think we have to avoid even the appearance of rebuilding, the way the Indians rebuilt a few years ago and endured plenty of rookie teething pains. But now look at the Indians, and they didn't even have as much propsect talent as we have now.

Unless Konerko was playing on the moon, park factors cannot account, wholly, for the difference in production between the two.

I don't want Loney advanced to the bigs until he's clearly ready, or, until he's the best option available. He is, or seems to be, the best option as the left handed half of a 1B platoon, while Nomar convalesces. Once Nomar comes back he should go down to AAA as was planned. If he plays well there, and doesn't reinjure himself, he should come up next year, or towards the end of this one. If Nomar can't come back relatively soon, then the Dodgers need a better plan B if they hope to get anything much out of 1B, this year. That's the whole of my point. If we're writing of 1B production on a whim, then so be it. If not, Loney doesn't look to be the answer, yet.

If he's good enough for the majors, he should be good enough to beat up on the PCL, right? Yes, lots of players get brought up before they're ready and spend a couple of years stinking. So what? Is that some glorious, character building rite of passage? What's the profit in doing it that way, for any one?

One last point, and then I'm done. It's a false dichotomy to say that Loney can either be installed at 1B as a 22 year old, or left to rot on the vine. Clearly, there's a happy medium. Letting him develop until he's likely to be better than a disposable AAAA waiver wire 1B seems like a better idea. It isn't giving up on him to say he's not ready at 22. It's protecting him, protecting his service clock (which is worth big money, if he becomes the player you project him to be), and protecting the major league team from having a gaping wound at 1B. All worthy goals, especially when the cost of all of them put together is relatively tiny. It'll cost less than what Nomar hitting his incentives would have.

Unless your point is that he'll get better, faster, being over matched (the reason he's likely to spend this year stinking, if he passes it on the big team) then I can't see any benefit at all in just giving him the job, damn the consequences. If the better/faster theory is your point, you still have to demonstrate that the more rapid improvement is likely to be worth the obvious losses (money and 2006 production).

I read back through the thread; the very worst thing said about Loney was that he projected to be league average at his best. Not an endorsement, but also not the same as calling him garbage. The prevailing thought is that he isn't ready. You seem to have exactly that opinion, so it makes no sense to accuse DT posters of being reactionaries. Your rapid deployment Loney protection system needs a less hairy trigger.

Nobody hates Loney. Everybody wants him to do well. We're all eager to see the farm club produce big league talent, but most of us are willing to wait for the talent to be big league talent.

586 -- I think worse was said about Loney than that he will end up as an average player at best. I think the exact phrase somebody (Thinkblue?) used was "not going to make it," which I take to mean "will not make it in the majors -- ever," which is just a long way of predicting a prospect will be a "bust." And of course there are people talking about trading Loney away, which is not the same thing as saying "let's see what he can do for us next year."

And to revisit the Konerko thing, I am not saying Loney now is exactly like Konerko as a prospect. Their statistically underwhelming starts to their major league careers at age 22 is what I was comparing. As prospects, if you adjusted for radically different minor league league and park effects (and Loney's playing through some injuries), Konerko as a prospect certainly looked more like a future slugger, but Loney's contact skills and swing make him look like more of a high-average pure hitter than Konerko looked like as a prospect, and while Konerko's defense at first base was poor even in the minors, well, we all know what Loney can do defensively (I am sure everybody has been impressed with Loney's defensive performance in a Dodger uniform so far).

but Loney's contact skills and swing make him look like more of a high-average pure hitter

Loney has never hit for a high-average in the minor leagues. Nor has he hit for any power. Izturis makes contact also. But he doesnt hit the ball hard. Making contact doesnt mean much if you dont have the SLG to back it up.

The only time Loney has ever played in a hitter-friendly league (Rookie Ball) he slugged over .600

Vero Beach has an insane HR factor last year. Like 1.62. Its a great environment to hit for power in, and Loney hit all of 7 HR's there. You are looking at the 170AB's he got in rookie league. I'm looking at the 1400AB's he accumulated since then. He doesnt look like a prospect. If he wasnt a 1st round bonus baby, he wouldnt even be on the 40-man roster IMO.

I certainly dont 'hate' James Loney. I'm just not sure why the Dodgers are spending time/money on trying to develop someone whom at best will be like JT Snow. JT Snow wasnt even league average as a 1st basemen. I certainly wouldnt want Snow (in his prime) as my 1st basemen, so why Loney?

Shouldnt the goal be to develop above average players at every position?

.280/.352/.411 in the minors...And this guy is supposed to play 1st?

Theres no comparison between James Loney and Paul Konerko either. Konerko's minor league numbers are vastly superior that its not even worth discussing.

I think it obvious from Grady's pinch-hitting for Loney yesterday, with another lefty that they now feel Loney is not ready for the bigs and Nomar's activation is going onto the fast track. Loney will be sent down by Wednesday. What might come out of this is Ross being moved this week and Guzman called up, giving them both infield and outfield backup. Personally, I'd rather keep Loney, call up Guzman and trade Leedee.

Good debate, guys. That was like Becker/Posner.

I'm not sure why the Dodgers didnt call up Guzman instead of Loney to begin with. They've stated they want someone that can play infield and OF.

It seems Guzman can play just about anywhere and probably has a better chance of producing than Loney.

Guzman could be called up and get consistent AB's playing 1st, SS, or the OF.

He'd be our 6'7 Figgins. Forget Izzy.

Let the Destroyer be that guy.

588 -- Loney HAS hit for a high average during his minor league career: .371 in Rookie ball, with a slugging percentage of .624. High average AND power. Don't use the word "never" unless you mean "never." It was after that stretch in Rookie ball that Loney broke his wrist, and later broke his finger, which finger required surgery in-season. Loney's stats while playing hurt are pretty irrelevent, as are any player's stats while playing through injury, but even so, Loney's numbers in high at age 19 (.276/.337/.400) were comparable to those of Miguel Cabrera in the SAME league at the SAME age (Cabrera hit .274/.333/.421, with 9 HR's compared to Loney's 7). Yes, Vero Beach's park is the most hitter-friendly park in the Florida State League, but the league as a whole is very pitcher-friendly. Shawn Green hit 1 single home run (with a slugging percentage of .345) in the league at Loney and Cabrera's age, and Sammy Sosa slugged .355 in the league at 19. If the Vero Beach advantage accounted for Loney slugging as much as .400, surely his unhealed wrist was a handicap that kept his stats from being even better (his stats did improve as the season wore on and his wrist healed properly).

As I already expained, Konerko played in far more hitter-friendly environments at every level, even more friendly than Vero Beach, so his minor league numbers are irrelevent to this discussion. You want comparisons that are relevent for Loney's 2005 season (when Loney wasn't hurt for the first time since 2002), playing in the pitcher-friendly Southern League at age 21? Here are some players who played in that league at that age and their stats:

James Loney: .284/.357/.419

Dave Justice: .227/.333/.336

Bernie Williams: .281/.409/.414

Shannon Stewart: .287/.398/.390

Torii Hunter: .263/.324/.401

Loney's batting average is right in between Bernie Williams' and Shannon Stewart's, both high-average major league hitters for the bulk of their careers, and Loney's slugging percentage is the highest of all.

Throw out the name J.T Snow all you like, but his minor league record is FAR less impressive than Loney's. As far as your speculation about why Loney is on the 40-man roster, let's just say the Dodgers know a lot more about Loney and his potential than you do.

Anyone wanna be a gem and tell me what the ETA is on broxton, billingley, guzman, ethier, laroche etc? (assuming no more injuries)?

will they all be up by sept.?

Williams, Stewart, and Hunter all played in the Eastern League.

I always forget, was Posner the blind guy who ran the newsstand, or the greazy shrimp in the leather jacket? Oops, wait, was Posner the woman who ran the diner? I'm just not as clear on my Becker dramatis personae as I really ought to be. I hope Jon won't ban me for it. . .

594 -- Thanks for the correction, Eric. It has been a while since I did that research, and I forgot that the four names I came up with all played in Double A, not the Southern League specifically, at the same age as Loney. This makes Loney look even BETTER compared to Williams, Stewart, and Hunter, since the Eastern League is much more hitter-friendly than the Southern League.