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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Rocky Mountain Mistake
2006-05-17 07:14
by Jon Weisman

When a pitcher walks the first three batters of the game, you had better be able to walk home if you're going to try to score on a hit.

Instead, on a play almost as infuriating as a blown ninth-inning lead, Dodger outfielder Kenny Lofton was thrown out at home on J.D. Drew's no-out, bases-loaded, first-inning single off Byung-Hyun Kim in Tuesday's 5-1 loss to Colorado.

Steve Henson of the Times provided third-base coach Rich Donnelly's explanation of why he waved Lofton in.

A day earlier, Donnelly sent pitcher Brett Tomko from second base on a similar hit. Hawpe's throw was up the line and Tomko was safe. Donnelly felt this was a tougher play because left-handed Hawpe had to move to his right for the ball. Plus, speedy Lofton was running.

"Our scouting report said that when Hawpe has to move side to side, his throws can be off line," Donnelly said. "I felt bad because I didn't want to stop the inning."

The throws can be off line. But will they be off line? Not necessarily. And with none out and a pitcher absolutely on the ropes - Kim had thrown 22 pitches before getting that first out as a gift - there is no way the Dodgers should have taken a calculated gamble. It's not as if Lofton hasn't been getting thrown out on the bases in other games. Donnelly hit on 12 and drew a face card - that should never happen.

Yes, it's easy for me to say that a thousand miles away about an instinctive play. But if that was instinct, than Donnelly needs to make an instinct adjustment.

In other news:

  • Neither Kenny Lofton nor Jeff Kent are expected to miss much time - besides today's game - after leaving Tuesday's with a leg cramp and back stiffness, respectively, Henson said.

  • Russell Martin is here to stay, and Sandy Alomar, Jr. might be stashed on the disabled list to accomodate the move, Henson added. (And so begins a great coaching career for Alomar?) I almost thought Martin hurt himself running hard on a grounder last night, but no one made any mention of it.

  • Willy Aybar had a single and double as an injury replacement and figures to play today with Kent sitting, but also had a bad throw late in the game which Nomar Garciaparra saved with an acrobatic catch and tag. This lends credence to the latest idea floated in the Times - that Rafael Furcal could move to third base when Cesar Izturis returns. The Aybar situation is becoming very much like last year's drama with Antonio Perez, it appears - perhaps without Perez's subsequently reported attitude problems. Anyway, don't freak out before it happens - Izturis hasn't even begun his rehabilitation assignment yet.

  • Lefty pitcher Greg Miller is one step closer to the majors: He'll be moving up to AAA Las Vegas this week, according to Bill Plunkett of the Register.

    Update: has posted a big package saluting Albert Pujols, and I contributed a piece on his Top 10 career highlights - which I found I couldn't narrow down to fewer than 11.

    Update 2: Aybar is batting fifth today, according to Inside the Dodgers, Andre Ethier sixth and Ramon Martinez seventh.

    Update 3: Maybe the Diamondbacks shouldn't be throwing stones, but this is still funny. According to Baseball Prospectus, the AFLAC trivia question on the Arizona broadcast of the San Diego-Arizona game Monday was, "Name a Padre."

    * * *

    Today's 12 noon game

  • Comments (487)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2006-05-17 07:39:17
    1.   Greg Brock
    Kent at third, Furcal at second, Cesar at SS...That's it...That's the list.
    2006-05-17 07:48:43
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    Izturis at short and Furcal at third isn't exactly Jeter and Rodriguez is it?
    2006-05-17 07:58:14
    3.   bluegold
    Bases loaded in the 1st, no outs. You need to get more than one freakin' run out of that situation. Of course, we have seen the Dodgers get no runs out of that situation many times in the past, so one was better than none. When Lofton got thrown out, I immediately sensed that the bubble had burst, not only for the inning but for the game. My diehard 12-year-old son and Dodgers fan told me to relax, it was only the first inning. Ah, my young inexperienced son has so much to learn about the game of baseball -- like golden opportunities don't come more than once in a game. Maybe I should not squash his optimistic Dodgers enthusiasm -- he will learn soon enough that the Dodgers will break your heart time and time again.
    2006-05-17 08:04:59
    4.   gpellamjr
    I'm going to be really upset to see when the Dodgers drop Aybar. That kid is going to be a batting champ (whatever that means) someday. I have a dream that he is our "2B of the future".
    2006-05-17 08:07:46
    5.   Sam DC
    Today I decided that Steely Dan is the band that I used to like the most which I now like the least. There was close competition from Phil Collins, but I can still handle some Phil Collins Genesis and haven't given up completely on Hello I Must Be Going. (Peter Gabriel Genesis is of course still good.)

    I know Steely Dan is all gifted and stuff, but everytime I hear it I feel bored.

    2006-05-17 08:12:51
    6.   Jon Weisman
    Phil Collins and Genesis definitely make the most to least list for me. I'll never tire of "My Old School."
    2006-05-17 08:13:41
    7.   Marty
    I still like Countdown to Ecstasy.
    2006-05-17 08:14:16
    8.   Penarol1916
    I still like Steely Dan. Not as much as I did when I first graduated college and my buddy and I would sit in a bar that would actually show west coast baseball (he was a Giants fan) and listen to Back in School.
    2006-05-17 08:19:17
    9.   Sam DC
    But just try sitting through Rikki Don't Lose That Number.

    Any other candidates? Journey/Styx/REO Speedwagon? Jewel?

    2006-05-17 08:23:56
    10.   D4P
    Jewel is great. Her "0304" album was brilliant. You gotta appreciate her diversity.
    2006-05-17 08:25:38
    11.   Penarol1916
    Oops, I meant My Old School.
    Actually, Journey and REO Speedwagon are bands that I didn't care for before and now I love their cheesiness, I've found that I absolutely it when music is taken too seriously. Most of the music from my junior high years of 89-91 was just awful. While I wasn't a huge fan then, I didn't realize how awful until I recently heard some on the radio.
    2006-05-17 08:29:59
    12.   Sam DC
    Interesting little blurb about what scouts do by Roy Smith at the Dodgers' house blog.
    2006-05-17 08:37:52
    13.   Marty
    I actually like most disco when I hear it now, but I hated it then.

    Groups like Journey, Styx, Kansas etc. are what turned me to punk rock.

    2006-05-17 08:38:47
    14.   3 tacos de asada por favor

    I'm trying to remember some tunes from those years but I can't.

    2006-05-17 08:39:07
    15.   Sam DC
    I've been derelict in my DC correspondent duties, mostly because the Nationals have shifted from pretty bad but rather interesting to rather bad and pretty dull. Last night's never-got-started 4-0 loss to the hapless Cubs being a good example.

    I will pass on one link for anyone interested. This blogger has written a 3-part (4th installment on the way) analysis of the relations between major league and minor league clubs, based on his read of a Bill James essay called "Revolution". The gist of his proposal is that minor league teams should be severed from major league team and an English football style system with league promotions and demotions should be put in place. Something to do with competition or some such.

    2006-05-17 08:44:43
    16.   D4P
    89-91 kinda marked the end of 80s hair bands. They were still around (e.g. Poison, Warrant, etc.), but that was their swan song.

    Unfortunately, this is also when crap like New Kids on the Block became popular, along with stuff like C&C Music Factory, Bel Biv Devoe, MC Hammer, Boyz II Men, Vanilla Ice, etc.

    2006-05-17 08:45:27
    17.   Bob Timmermann
    Relegation is not now nor will it ever be a solution for anything in baseball. It's even a myth that it works in European football. It's a crock. It's a sham. It's snake oil adulterated with laudanum.

    Anyone who thinks baseball should have relegation should be relegated to oblivion.

    2006-05-17 08:54:24
    18.   grandcosmo
    Are you saying that you don't like relegation?
    2006-05-17 08:55:33
    19.   Bob Timmermann
    I like relegation the same way you like Karl Malden.
    2006-05-17 08:57:55
    20.   3 tacos de asada por favor

    '91 was a good year though, I remember hearing Nirvana for the first time, wasn't that the year U2 came out with achtung baby?

    2006-05-17 08:59:45
    21.   D4P
    Yes, Achtung Baby came out in 91. Great album, perhaps their best. Pearl Jam also broke onto the scene that year with "10." Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc. all made a splash that year.
    2006-05-17 09:07:40
    22.   Sam DC
    If you've never seen it, Maury Brown has a picture of Eddie Gaedel batting up at (in an article declaring Arte Moreno the new Bill Veeck).
    2006-05-17 09:10:14
    23.   Jacob L
    What, I ask, what is it with Karl Malden?

    If I ever liked Phil Collins, Genesis, or Steely Dan, it was only for the briefest of moments.

    2006-05-17 09:12:25
    24.   Bob Timmermann
    Asking grandcosmo about Karl Malden is sort of like asking Raymond Shaw if he wants to play solitaire.
    2006-05-17 09:12:56
    25.   3 tacos de asada por favor

    Matellica (sp?)came out with the black album also no?

    2006-05-17 09:17:08
    26.   grandcosmo
    18. Wow, you REALLLLLY don't like relegation.
    2006-05-17 09:17:55
    27.   Penarol1916
    17. To me the big advantage of relegation is that it can allow a metro area that can support more than two clubs to have more than two clubs. Look at the Premier League with London. If you did the MLB thing with London and only allowed to two big league clubs, they would dwarf the financial superiority that the Yankees enjoy in the MLB. I don't see relegation as something that could fix things, but what would help fix things would be if the MLB allowed the free movement of franchises to the cities that would best support them and not limit the number of franchises that could be in one location. Zimbalist is my favorite author on that subject.
    2006-05-17 09:21:19
    28.   Telemachos
    I looove relegation. However, I agree that it would never work given MLB's current structure.
    2006-05-17 09:22:09
    29.   Jacob L
    Just a friendly reminder, everybody. Day game. Day game.

    Lets all get some work done before noon.

    2006-05-17 09:23:53
    30.   Bob Timmermann
    If someone thinks that baseball's 130-year old monopolistic structure can be changed and replaced with a system similar to European soccer (where there truly is a competitiveness balance issue), I just don't know how to respond.

    Bring in relegation and I'm going to hope my local baseball team is bought by a Russian oil tycoon like the Chelsea team was. Go Petroeuros!

    2006-05-17 09:24:34
    31.   Bob Timmermann

    Jacob needs to see some of his patients before noon. I hear he has a root canal scheduled.

    2006-05-17 09:31:26
    32.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    anybody her about Furcal playing CF? I just don't see him playing CF, My boy Izzy is doomed here, Furcal is here to stay (darn shame!!)
    2006-05-17 09:39:09
    33.   Penarol1916
    30. Noone thinks that the system can be changed, this is talking about an ideal world. As for a Russian Oil Tycoon taking all of your problems away, the fact of the matter is, even with all of this spending Chelsea's operating losses before Abramovich bought the club were $30.0MM according to Forbes and last year were only $7.0MM due to increased sponsorship and television revenues not associated with his largesse. It's not a matter of having an absurdly rich guy come in and finance your club with losses as you go on a spending spree.
    2006-05-17 09:44:19
    34.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    I'm kinda suprised Alomar is heading down to Vegas, I thought they wanted only one of the prospects to stay up here, & have the other play everyday down in Vegas, are they shopping one of them?
    2006-05-17 09:46:35
    35.   Jon Weisman
    Alomar is not heading to Las Vegas.
    2006-05-17 09:47:33
    36.   underdog
    Alomar might be heading to the DL, which is a very different (less fun) place than LV.

    Meanwhile, no thoughts on Jon's note about Greg Miller? I'm excited, with nervousness, about his promotion to Vegas. Wonder how long it will be before the try him as a reliever in the majors...

    2006-05-17 09:50:59
    37.   Jacob L
    31 Of course, I can post with one hand and drill with the other . . . oops.

    I'm just worried about everyone else.

    2006-05-17 09:56:54
    38.   3 tacos de asada por favor

    I thought I read somewhere that he was headed to Vegas, My bad sorry.

    2006-05-17 10:03:19
    39.   Bob Timmermann
    You couldn't send Alomar to Las Vegas unless you exposed him to waivers and he could also refuse the assignment.

    Seniority has its privileges.

    2006-05-17 10:13:51
    40.   DougS
    I guess I wasn't the only one who noticed Martin grabbing at his hamstring (if only for a moment) after running out that grounder. Looked okay walking back to the dugout, though, so I assume it was just a passing alarm.
    2006-05-17 10:18:51
    41.   Jacob L
    41 I tweaked just about every muscle I've got playing softball last night, and here I am back at work today. Of course if I had to be cleared by the Dodger medical staff, I'm sure I'd end up in a ball under my desk by lunchtime.
    2006-05-17 10:22:22
    42.   Bob Timmermann
    I thought curling up into the fetal position after a Dodgers game was the default position for most of us?
    2006-05-17 10:24:45
    43.   JoeyP
    Does anyone think an above .500 team can carry Lofton, Izturis, and Furcal in the everyday lineup?
    2006-05-17 10:25:27
    44.   stevo
    How could you forget Color Me Badd. Now those guys were awesome.
    2006-05-17 10:30:37
    45.   Jon Weisman
    43 - If Furcal were to start hitting, yes. But in any event, that won't happen over the long-haul, because Mueller will return, or Lofton will get hurt, or Furcal will get hurt, or what have you.

    I would again advise people not to worry about Izturis' return until it's closer. I almost feel bad that I mentioned it at all this morning.

    2006-05-17 10:32:17
    46.   Mark T.R. Donohue
    On the topic of relegation:

    Since the English Premier League started in 1992, four teams have won it -- Manchester United (eight times), Arsenal (three times), Blackburn Rovers (once), and Chelsea (twice).

    Since Man U won the first Premiership title in 1993, there have been five NBA champs, nine Super Bowl winners, seven Stanley Cup winners, and eight World Series winners.

    So parity, not so much. On the other hand, they haven't lost any years to strikes like hockey and baseball have.

    2006-05-17 10:34:10
    47.   JoeyP
    but also had a bad throw late in the game which Nomar Garciaparra saved with an acrobatic catch and tag

    I dont think you can judge this infield's defense based on their throwing to Nomar, bc Nomar is a short 1st basemen. He's a much smaller target than say 6'5 Choi, so any throw that isnt perfect is going to make Nomar like an acrobat. In reality, I dont think our infielders are worse at throwing this year than last. They are just throwing to a smaller target.

    2006-05-17 10:36:54
    48.   Jon Weisman
    Aybar fifth, Ethier sixth, Martinez seventh in today's lineup.
    2006-05-17 10:37:13
    49.   Telemachos
    Randomly noted:

    A.O. Scott's review of "The DaVinci Code" for the NY Times is hilarious.


    A couple of juicy tidbits:

    "'The Da Vinci Code,' Ron Howard's adaptation of Dan Brown's best-selling primer on how not to write an English sentence, arrives trailing more than its share of theological and historical disputation. ... Is Christianity a conspiracy? Is "The Da Vinci Code" a dangerous, anti-Christian hoax? What's up with Tom Hanks's hair?

    Luckily, I lack the learning to address the first two questions. As for the third, well, it's long, and so is the movie.

    2006-05-17 10:39:35
    50.   Jon Weisman
    47 - I get your point, but this throw was well wide of first base. As underrated as I think Choi could be, I don't think he makes the particular play last night that Nomar made. But I'm sure Choi could get some high throws that Nomar wouldn't.

    Frankly, we were lucky that Nomar didn't suffer a Derrek Lee-like wrist injury in catching the ball in front of first base as the batter neared.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2006-05-17 10:40:41
    51.   Jon Weisman
    49 - The one Defamer posted was even funnier.

    I've never felt bad about sitting out the entire Da Vinci Code thing.

    2006-05-17 10:40:48
    52.   3 tacos de asada por favor

    I was gonna mention them, But said to my seld nah, dose anybody remember that song "knocking boots" I forget the name of the band, But that was a kind of a funny song.

    2006-05-17 10:44:15
    53.   3 tacos de asada por favor

    I don't agree with you, but I do understand you're point.

    2006-05-17 10:49:21
    54.   fan 4 40 plus
    Anyone else wondering if Lofton was questioning Furcal about why he did not try to score on that "3rd wild pitch" after being thrown out at the plate??

    Also did Lofton get a bad break on the single by Drew or was it just a bad call by Donnelly?

    2006-05-17 10:52:07
    55.   Jacob L
    54 I really don't think it matters if Lofton got a bad break. I know Vin was surprised that the throw beat him, but that's neither here nor there. You just don't make the first out at home plate when the pitcher can't even find the neighborhood.
    2006-05-17 10:52:12
    56.   Inside Baseball
    54 Jon, you should really post something about that. ;)
    2006-05-17 10:52:53
    57.   Vishal
    i enjoyed the pujols list, jon. for #3, you might've included the fact that he more or less broke brad lidge in the process; he hasn't been the same pretty much ever since.
    2006-05-17 10:54:38
    58.   Jon Weisman
    54 - In that situation, Lofton has to be so assured of scoring on that play that even if he falls down while making the turn at third, he would still not get thrown out. A bad break or a good throw is not an excuse.
    2006-05-17 10:56:11
    59.   Bob Timmermann
    Someone here is going to have to go sit through "The Da Vinci Code" out of a sense of obligation.

    Such are the give and take aspects of a relationship. I can't imagine it will be too onerous though.

    2006-05-17 10:57:21
    60.   Steve
    Lucille sighting!
    2006-05-17 11:02:16
    61.   fan 4 40 plus
    55, 58 I am not condoning the mistake, I was trying to figure out if there was an explanation. I kept waiting for a replay on KCAL but did not see one.
    2006-05-17 11:07:12
    62.   Jon Weisman
    61 - I don't think there has been an explanation beyond what Rich Donnelly told Steve Henson (quoted up top in this post).
    2006-05-17 11:09:07
    63.   Vishal
    [51] me neither. haven't read it, have zero interest in it.
    2006-05-17 11:10:47
    64.   GoBears
    Lofton was out, as Vin would say (but didn't), "from me to you." It wasn't even close.

    Oddly, had Lofton been held at 3rd, he might not have scored anyway. Kent struck out, and then Cruz grounded out, into what might have become a DP or a force at the plate. But still, dumb call by Donnelly.

    Donnelly was very lucky on the Tomko run in the previous game. And not because the throw was off-line. For some reason, the catcher backed up behind the baseline to receive the throw, which beat Tomko easily, but the backing up allowed BT to slide inside the baseline and avoid the lunging catcher. That was the catcher's fault, not the OFer's.

    Still, the Dodgers lost 5-1 yesterday, not 5-4. The Lofton mistake MIGHT have cost them a big inning, but it might only have meant 1 more run, and maybe even zero more runs. The hitting in general was awful all game.

    2006-05-17 11:14:49
    65.   Jon Weisman
    64 - I had the same reaction to the Tomko play.

    The thing about the first inning Tuesday is that bases loaded, none out might easily change how Kim pitches to Kent, or at least the result of that at-bat. And if the Dodgers had knocked out Kim early and forced the Colorado bullpen into work, it would not only have increased the Dodger chances of winning Tuesday, but today as well. Instead, the Rockies bullpen mostly rested.

    Granted, these are ifs - but they're good ifs.

    2006-05-17 11:20:39
    66.   bhsportsguy
    Okay here is some more fodder for the when are they going to bring Chad up debate, courtesy of Baseball America, here is a AL scout's opinion of Billingsey (after his brief 1+ inning game last week)...
    "It's one of those things where everybody thinks you're crazy for grading a guy as a No. 1 or No. 2 starter after you saw him for an inning and a third. But he's got the stuff and everybody raves about the makeup. He's an untouchable, but I can't think of a club that wouldn't love to have him."

    He also noted that Chad has a 95 mph fastball, a plus curve and slider, only his change up needs work.

    And I am going to guess that this was reported yesterday, there is a Q&A (free) with Greg Miller on the site and among other things, he says that he thinks he is always going to be a bullpen guy.

    2006-05-17 11:26:42
    67.   Inside Baseball
    60 Too bad. I was expecting/hoping Saenz to get the nod at third and Aybar playing second with Kent out.
    2006-05-17 11:29:34
    68.   sanchez101
    I saw Martin grab his hamstring on that play youre talking about and was sure he just put himself on the DL. Hopefully I can forget about that.

    I still maintain that "the play" was more about Hawpe making a great play rather than a mistake by Lofton. Tomko wouldve been out on a similar play except that Ardoin had to play the throw on a bounce, and was too far behind the 3B line to tag Tomko. Yesterday, Ardoin met the throw on the line before the bounce and Lofton was stuck. Sometimes a runner will steal a base no matter whose behind the plate. This is just the opposite of that. Hawpe made a perfect play in the field, a perfect throw to Ardoin, and Ardoin was in perfect position to field and tag Lofton. If anything goes wrong for Hawpe or Ardoin, and usually something will, Lofton scores. So I dont blame Donnely, despite his previous mistakes, for this one. Some times Bonds struckout, even in his prime. Some times Rickie Henderson got caught stealing. Thats what's great about baseball, anyone can make a play at anytime, you just tip your hat and move on.

    2006-05-17 11:30:10
    69.   Uncle Miltie
    65- I agree, the pitcher has a much different mentality with bases loaded nobody out, than 2 on 1 out. With bases loaded, they are forced to throw a strike and might end up making a mistake. That blunder by Donnelly changed the whole complexion of the inning.

    Grits almost has the perfect lineup. I'd play Robles over Lucille and switch him in the batting order with Martin, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

    Just saw that this game is on ESPN! Somebody needs to bring these up for those of us who don't live in LA. I have class at 2:30, so I should catch at least 6 innings of the game. I am operating on 2 1/2 hours of sleep, so I may have made some grammatical errors.

    2006-05-17 11:34:36
    70.   Marty
    I would normally worry that Martin may actually really injure his hamstring today after tweaking it yesterday. But the way he legged out that triple later in the game makes me less concerned. When he rounded second I was screaming stop! because I didn't want to see him go down in an already lost cause.
    2006-05-17 11:36:51
    71.   GoBears
    That blunder by Donnelly changed the whole complexion of the inning.

    Maybe. We just don't know. I take your point and Jon's. Donnelly made a mistake, EVEN IF Lofton had somehow scored. That said, we can't assume that any more runs would have scored had Lofton stayed at 3rd. MAYBE Kim would have melted down, or maybe he still would have struck Kent out and induced an inning-ended DP. I think the burden of proof is on anyone who would like to assert that Kim would NOT have been able to throw strikes to Kent had the bases been loaded with no outs. How could we possibly know that?

    We can't re-run history to see what would have happened. And we sure can't assume that only good luck would have followed a better coaching decision.

    2006-05-17 11:38:17
    72.   autumnlanding
    Interesting discussion on relegation
    I have been studying abroad for the year in London and not a day has gone by where I havnt compared English sports to American sports. The concept of relegation is very interesting and unique to someone raised on American sports. The two systems operate on a completely different philosophy. We support mediocrity with our bottom-up draft structure and luxury taxes. The beauty of this system is every team, with time, has a shot at making their city proud. Its the system that gives the Cav's a LeBron, the Texans a Reggie Bush. Our seasons are precursers to the real knockout tournament, the playoffs. In England, like mentioned above, only the elite clubs have a realistic shot at the premiership title, and it is rare if a single team hasn't locked up the title three quarters of the way through the season. Instead, their attention turns to the bottom of the table, to see who gets kicked out and who moves up.

    Its fun in a wierd way. It has its niceities, for instance the title is no longer a crapshoot and if they were to do it in baseball maybe the Cardinals would actually have a championship this decade. On the flipside, imagine rooting for the Drays to get relegated and the 51's to take their place? Well, you get what i mean.

    Clearly all premiership clubs are not equal. those who qualify for the champions league need to have twice as many superstar players on their team so they can compete in Europe. Teams that make it up to the premiership through promotion usually find it more of a burden, with so much pressure to compete and sign players that they end up more in debt than when they started. Look at clubs like sunderland, wigham, westham, sheffield wednesday, watford... all teams that have made it to the premiership only to find themselves plunging into the depths of the championship division and 1st divisons. Some of them work their way back up, others dont.

    I attended a public lecture earlier this year on the finances of football with a panel of soccer experts and learned that ManU 2 years ago was the first premiership club to turn a profit in someting like 7 years. They sign players for rediculous contracts based on minimal track records and then loan them out to other clubs when they realize the player stinks and cant afford to pay him. (However, it would be nice to loan out Baez.) The concept is just so different. Its a CLUB vs. a FRANCHISE. I think only 1 or 2 teams have actually left the city they were founded in. I tried a couple times to explain to someone that the Dodgers left Brooklyn to move to LA. They just dont get it. Heres an idea for baseball: something like the FA cup where every single English soccer club in the entire country gets a bid and draws an opponent randomly regardless of what division they are in. But even this really wouldnt make much sense.

    One last thing. The English system is far inferior to ours for one reason in my opinon-- the endless torture of the diehard fans who support their local club with such intensity that American sports fans could not even fathom, and they receive nothing for it. If their club is fortunate enough to be in the premiership, the chances are they wont win. If they arent aresenal, manchester Utd, tottenham, liverpool, or chelsea, their hopes of getting a shot at the title are zero. Example: Newcastle
    Sorry, this post is too long.

    2006-05-17 11:38:41
    73.   sanchez101
    66. Im suprised that they are promoting Miller to AAA. Although his fastball has hit 97 mutliple times, I thought they were going to take it slow with him. I think he'll survive Las Vegas, though, he's tough to hit and when hitters do make contact its usually on the ground. You could make the case that he was dominating AA so bad that he didnt have to sharped his control.

    I think the fact that they keep him pitching 2-3 innings every couple days means that Dodger brass arent confining him to the bullpen yet. I would keep him on a Johan Santana-track; bring him to the majors eventually as middle reliever and take it from there.

    2006-05-17 11:43:10
    74.   Jon Weisman
    71 - No, we can't assume good luck would have followed. I'm content with just calling it a bad decision in and of itself.
    2006-05-17 11:45:57
    75.   GoBears
    74. Agreed.
    2006-05-17 11:46:11
    76.   Bob Timmermann

    I liked it. I thought it was well thought out.

    2006-05-17 11:48:09
    77.   Linkmeister
    49 I'm late with this, but I was working (ha!)

    My review of Brown's book:

    One which excoriates Brown's writing even more than I do:

    2006-05-17 11:52:26
    78.   sanchez101
    71. I think its interesting because Furcal had been so conservative at thirdbase earlier in the inning, not advancing home on those pased balls. Maybe Donnelly could take a lesson from Furcal about running the bases. It doesnt seem like he's paying attention to the fielders half the time.
    2006-05-17 11:55:27
    79.   MartinBillingsley31
    I like the players in the lineup today except martinez.
    I wish martin would bat higher than 8th, actually since furcal isn't living up to his hype, i'd like martin batting 1st.
    2006-05-17 11:55:31
    80.   Marty
    Donnelly is a human windmill. I never thought I'd see anyone worse than "wave em home" Lasorda.
    2006-05-17 11:55:48
    81.   Jon Weisman
    77 - I've always just liked "The Ballad of Mary Magdalene"

    My name is Mary Magdalene
    I come from Palestine
    Please excuse these rags I'm in
    I've fallen on hard times
    But long ago I had my work
    When I was in my prime
    But I gave it up
    And all for love
    It was his career or mine ...

    2006-05-17 11:57:27
    82.   thinkblue0
    haven't read the thread because I need to get out of here in a minute. But, it absolutely completely and utterly boggles my mind that ANYONE is mentioning moving guys around to accomodate Izturis.....would we be doing that for Royce Clayton? No...and that's basically what Izturis is.
    2006-05-17 11:58:53
    83.   MartinBillingsley31

    But, it absolutely completely and utterly boggles my mind that ANYONE is mentioning moving guys around to accomodate Izturis.....would we be doing that for Royce Clayton? No...and that's basically what Izturis is.

    Bingo, i totally agree.

    2006-05-17 12:00:13
    84.   LAT
    Nice to know I am not the only person in America who did not care for the Da Vinci Code. It was just one ridiculous obstacle after another. It grew tiresome after the fourth or fifth hurdle.

    Every year, my Firm rents out a theater on opening night of a summer movie and this year its The Code on Fri. Fortunately I will not be there cause I have LAD v. LAAofA tickets.

    2006-05-17 12:00:46
    85.   Telemachos
    Linkmeister, that Neddie Jingo link made me laugh out loud. Co-workers are now looking at me and wondering what the hell is going on.
    2006-05-17 12:02:14

    "Just saw that this game is on ESPN!"

    I set my T.V. on reminder for ESPN & FOX/PRIME but I'm sure it's gonna be blacked out, I just can't help it, I gotta make sure it's blacked out, It's always interesting to hear other annoucsers take on THE BLUE!

    2006-05-17 12:03:27
    87.   gpellamjr
    Great! The FSN Colorado broadcast again. Perhaps I'll get to hear more about the string of 5 Rookies of the Year for the Dodgers in the seventies and eighties. Or about the the two Dodgers left from the 2004 NL West champs. The color guy said "Jeff Kent is one of them... no, wait, he was playing with San Fransisco" "Yup". I assume they are excluding Gagne, Izzy, and Werth because they are on the DL.
    2006-05-17 12:04:28
    88.   Linkmeister
    81 I'll take Yvonne Elliman singing "I Don't Know How to Love Him" from "Superstar," but that may be hometown bias, since she's from here.
    2006-05-17 12:04:31
    89.   gpellamjr
    86 Why on earth would you listen to anybody but Vinny when you have a choice??
    2006-05-17 12:05:58
    90.   Steve
    Sveumism is a menace of biblical proportion.
    2006-05-17 12:06:05
    91.   Linkmeister
    85 Glad you liked it. Neddie writes really really well, and he puts together some wonderful music tracks, too. He's a guitarist in his non-software-coding time.
    2006-05-17 12:09:02
    92.   towerofpower
    82 - you mean all glove no bat?..yea
    2006-05-17 12:09:59
    93.   LAT
    OT: This may have been discussed last night and I am probably alone but Russ Springer should be suspended at least two games for hitting Bonds last night. There was no reason to hit him. He was clearly trying to hit him and he hit him too high. The fact that Springer got a standing ovation for it is a sad commentary on how obsessed people have become with BB. I'm no fan of BB but what is next some idiot in the starts throwing batteries or someone does worse? Its a baseball game. We don't cheer when someone almost takes an intentional 92 mph fastball in the head.
    2006-05-17 12:12:38

    When the Dodgers play the Cubbies or the Braves I MOSTLY here Vinnie, But I like hearing other broadcasters take on THE BLUE. Is that weird? I don't think so.

    2006-05-17 12:14:11
    95.   Andrew Shimmin
    93- Some of us to cheer at that, but we do it silently, in our cold, black hearts. This is an instance where the real crime is getting caught doing it.
    2006-05-17 12:14:39
    96.   Steve
    Do you really think Russ Springer's fastball would hurt?
    2006-05-17 12:15:32
    97.   MartinBillingsley31

    Is cruz a bad lefthanded hitter or is he bad at hitting righthanders, or another way of putting it, should cruz bat righthanded only even vs righthanders?

    Here are his splits so far.
    vs righthanders 183/333/282/615
    vs lefthanders 361/445/556/1010

    2006-05-17 12:17:23
    98.   LAT
    96. Good point.
    2006-05-17 12:17:34
    99.   towerofpower
    I remember reading up on Van Slyke earlier in the year, eagerly awaiting to see his production down in the low minors. Yet, I can't seem to find any stats on him; does anyone know whats his status at the moment?

    [something i found yesterday which made me look up Van Slyke's stats]

    Pujols is baseball's Michael Jordan

    "Tigers first-base coach Andy Van Slyke had an idea that Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols might be headed for a monster season. Pujols indicated as much during the off-season while working out in St. Louis with a group that included Van Slyke's sons, A.J., a first baseman at Class A with the Cardinals, and Scott, an outfielder in rookie ball with the Dodgers."

    2006-05-17 12:19:58
    100.   Jon Weisman
    93 - After scolding everyone else, I've probably said enough probably about hitting Bonds.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2006-05-17 12:21:28
    101.   King of the Hobos
    99 Extended spring with most of our high school draft picks from last year. Van Slyke, Wall, Bell, Johnson, and Robinson were all expected to join Ogden when it begins (although Johnson has been in Jacksonville as an injury replacement)
    2006-05-17 12:24:25
    102.   Uncle Miltie
    Yea Wilber!
    2006-05-17 12:24:53
    103.   towerofpower
    Springer wasn't trying to hit bonds. Rather, what Springer represents is change in a teams approach on bonds. The fear is gone, to the point where even a Russ Springer dares to pound bonds inside, disregarding any of the consequences that may follow. Whereas in the past, going inside on bonds was a mistake waiting to happen, risking having him turn on one or having the ball drift back over the plate, nowadays guys like Springer and Beimel have success in that area. No doubt Bonds will break the record, but this is obviously the end of the road for bonds.
    2006-05-17 12:25:45
    104.   sanchez101
    It seems like Aybar is really having his way with major league pitchers. I think we need to get him as much playing time as possible before the league figures him out.
    2006-05-17 12:25:48
    105.   towerofpower
    101 - thanks
    2006-05-17 12:31:45
    Good at bat by Martinez. If anything making the colorado pitcher make alot of pitches
    2006-05-17 12:32:27
    107.   LAT
    103. While his age is catching up with him, there is no doubt Springer was trying to hit Bonds. First pitch behind him, next pitch inside. Next inside and would have hit him but hit the handle of the bat instead. Two later, plunk on the shoulder. If Bonds tries to duck instead of turn ihe takes it in the head.

    In any event, I just read Dan Wetzel's article at Yahoo. New stuff abut what a lousy human being he is.

    2006-05-17 12:33:54
    108.   Uncle Miltie
    Can we score any runs at Coors? Breaking balls actually look like they're breaking now.
    2006-05-17 12:34:55
    109.   Jon Weisman
    For those who watch games on Gameday, would you prefer it said "in play" but nothing else, to keep you in suspense, or do you like "in play, out(s) recorded" and "in play, no out recorded" etc.
    2006-05-17 12:36:56
    110.   Linkmeister
    109 To heck with objectivity. Gameday should say "hometown pitcher got out of it," or "visitors SCORE!"
    2006-05-17 12:40:00
    111.   JoeyP
    Gameday has lost some of its integrity when I found out yesterday how it actually works. It seems for some sites, ESPN particularly, they hire people to do the game ($15 a game) and you dont have to actually be at the game. All you need is to be watching it on TV and record the action.

    In fact, a friend of a friend that did this for ESPN, actually had his cable go out while he was doing a game. So he went to yahoo's site, and copied their play-play into the ESPN gametrack.

    2006-05-17 12:40:04

    good read, thanx

    2006-05-17 12:40:46
    113.   Jon Weisman
    Penny's got his K pitch back.
    2006-05-17 12:42:03
    114.   LAT
    109. Sounds like Jon is at the museum today.
    2006-05-17 12:42:10
    115.   Jon Weisman
    111 - Considering all that Gameday is doing is reporting what happened without analysis, I'm not sure there's a real problem there (as far as your first paragraph).

    Your second paragraph - yeah, that's bad.

    2006-05-17 12:43:58
    116.   Marty
    111 I don't understand the complaint. It's just a recording service. There's nothing official about it.
    2006-05-17 12:46:19
    117.   Marty
    I got an invitation yesterday in the mail from Jon's museum to become a member.
    2006-05-17 12:47:29
    118.   Steve
    The Gameday guy can do Fur-kel's at-bats without watching the game at all.
    2006-05-17 12:48:28
    119.   Bob Timmermann
    A friend of mine who works for an unnamed major league team's website (the team is in Canada to give you a clue) says that there are three guys at each game doing the Gameday-type stuff.

    One from, one from STATS Inc., and one from Sportsticker.

    But the websites have been doing these games off of TV for quite a while if the situation demands it.

    2006-05-17 12:49:04
    120.   Jon Weisman
    117 - It took a lot of lobbying to get them to change the name from LACMA to "Jon's museum."

    What a bargain you've been offered! You should say yes!

    2006-05-17 12:50:28
    121.   Bob Timmermann
    I was given the same offer.

    I declined.

    2006-05-17 12:52:30
    122.   Linkmeister
    120 Wait. I'm puzzled. Jon, are you now the curator at LACMA? When did that happen?
    2006-05-17 12:54:17
    123.   Bob Timmermann
    Jon's first task as curator of LACMA will be to see that there is an entire wing devoted to the world of Karl Hubenthal:

    2006-05-17 12:54:55
    124.   Jon Weisman
    I'm not a curator, much less "the" curator.
    2006-05-17 12:55:13
    125.   autumnlanding
    stopping in from watching the first half of the champions league. lehmann (arsenal keeper) got a redcard early in the first half but the penalty missed and he effectively sacrificed himself for a goal. so lehmann got sent off, the 2nd string keeper is in and they aresnal had to take a man off the field. then cole scored on a beautiful header from a perfect cross, putting arsenal up 1-0 and playing a man down. the new keeper has saved two bullets from ronaldihno, one was a split second reflex that sent the ball off the left post. if arsenal wins this game itll be a miracle and lehmann will be a hero whereas after he got sent off it looked like everyone was gonna kill him.
    2006-05-17 12:59:00
    126.   Marty
    If Dan Brown has anything to say about it Jon is the "renowned" curator.
    2006-05-17 12:59:32
    127.   Jon Weisman
    This Helton at-bat is killing me.
    2006-05-17 13:00:26
    128.   Telemachos
    I thought that AB was gonna last forever.
    2006-05-17 13:01:15
    129.   Jon Weisman
    2006-05-17 13:01:18
    130.   Marty
    The AB lacked a certain Cora-osity since there was no homerun at the end.
    2006-05-17 13:03:18
    131.   Linkmeister
    23 pitches in the inning, 18 for strikes. I should be so consistent.
    2006-05-17 13:04:58
    Yeah an HR at the end of that at bat would have been the icezing (sp?) on the cake, for Rockies fans of course.
    2006-05-17 13:05:56
    133.   Prescott Pete
    I wonder if Arsenal will score more than the Dodgers today.
    2006-05-17 13:07:08
    134.   Telemachos
    Who does Aybar think he is, Helton or something?
    2006-05-17 13:07:45
    135.   Jon Weisman
    Guess he got fooled on pitch #8.
    2006-05-17 13:08:55
    136.   Bob Timmermann
    The running commentary on the ESPN site for the Champions Cup described a recent foul as "cynical."
    2006-05-17 13:09:44
    137.   Gen3Blue
    Damn- some of the best hitters in the league can't touch Jennings today.
    2006-05-17 13:13:48
    138.   towerofpower
    two years ago, that long fly by hawpe would've been a two run dinger
    2006-05-17 13:14:19
    139.   towerofpower
    two years ago, that long fly by hawpe would've been a two run dinger
    2006-05-17 13:15:28


    2006-05-17 13:17:25
    141.   Jon Weisman
    138 - What would it have been last night?
    2006-05-17 13:17:37
    I wonder if Vinnie dose all his reaserch him self or if somebody dose it for him?
    2006-05-17 13:18:49
    Normar dose it again.
    2006-05-17 13:19:16
    144.   Bob Timmermann
    Scully does a lot of research on his own, but like all announcers he gets help from the team PR staff and the producers of the telecast.
    2006-05-17 13:19:42
    145.   Jon Weisman
    142 - A combination. The Dodgers give their broadcasters a healthy support staff.
    2006-05-17 13:19:58
    are you guys noticing that Brad Penny falls of WAY to the left, I don't like that.
    2006-05-17 13:20:18
    147.   underdog
    Thank you Nomar!, says Brad Penny. Sweet play.

    I'm home sick from work today (yet I'm still working - how did that happen?) while watching the game on ESPN. Except for there being one too many announcers in the booth, it's fun to watch.

    2006-05-17 13:21:54
    148.   Prescott Pete
    Is Mia watching the Dodgers game or the cup final?
    2006-05-17 13:22:40
    149.   Bob Timmermann

    I'm betting on neither.

    2006-05-17 13:23:11
    150.   towerofpower
    141 - it would have been over lofton's head before trying to run it down, keeping him from weaking his hamstring; one of vin's "no doubt about it"
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2006-05-17 13:24:41
    151.   Buffalo Jones
    how about a Martin solo shot right here
    2006-05-17 13:24:51
    152.   underdog
    Man, with the Dodgers' high powered offensive attack today, it's all on Penny to keep 'em in this one. Let's just say, if they were in that Yankees-Rangers game yesterday, this line-up wouldn't come back. But it may just take one or two runs from either side.

    Russell, can you swing please?

    2006-05-17 13:25:04
    153.   underdog
    Thank you!
    2006-05-17 13:26:02
    154.   towerofpower
    considering pujol's season, and the warm praise he is recieving for his defense at first, do you think nomar will get consideration for the gold glove or will he be snubbed due to the fact that in some people's eyes first may be but a temporary position for him?
    2006-05-17 13:27:38
    155.   underdog
    Yeah, nice weather in France today for that cup final. I won't complain next time I have to play soccer in the fog or drizzle.
    2006-05-17 13:28:00
    156.   alexx
    When the pitcher makes the last out does someone bring him his glove or does he have to go back to the dugout? And if someone brings it, who does it? the catcher?
    2006-05-17 13:28:19
    157.   Gen3Blue
    These Colorado announcers are killing me.
    I seriously don't know if I can take it for 6-10 games a year.I hope its less.
    2006-05-17 13:28:46
    158.   Jon Weisman
    154 - I think any ex-shortstop playing first base will get considered for GG - there's an assumption going in that he could be a good fielder. His semi-acrobatic moves will win more people over. And it won't hurt if he's hitting well too and getting attention for that.

    That being said, I haven't even thought about who the other candidates are.

    2006-05-17 13:29:29
    159.   Buffalo Jones
    and by solo shot I meant single
    2006-05-17 13:30:27
    160.   Bob Timmermann

    I don't know who brings the pitcher his glove and cap but I don't think it's the catcher. After all, he's busy putting on his gear.

    2006-05-17 13:30:35
    161.   Gen3Blue
    Nice at bat for Martin, and he sets up Furcal to lead off the sixth.
    2006-05-17 13:31:31
    162.   Buffalo Jones
    161 is that a good thing?
    2006-05-17 13:31:49
    163.   Linkmeister
    Well, the Dodgers did do fairly well for a while with a relatively short first-baseman who could hit; some guy named Garvey.
    2006-05-17 13:32:53
    164.   Bob Timmermann
    Barcelona had two quick goals and leads Arsenal 2-1.
    2006-05-17 13:34:00
    165.   alexx
    hmm. Maybe whichever infielder is feeling generous brings it.
    2006-05-17 13:34:54
    166.   towerofpower
    Brad Hawpe:
    Home (18 games, 64 abs)
    3 9 10 14 1 2 .281 .378 .453 .832

    Away (21 games, 77 abs)
    7 19 10 18 1 1 .390 .460 .753 1.213
    2006-05-17 13:35:37
    167.   Uncle Miltie
    Bob, I don't really follow soccer. Is this a big game or something?
    2006-05-17 13:36:03
    168.   Inside Baseball
    158 Well, at least we know it's not going to Adam Laroche.
    2006-05-17 13:36:26
    169.   Jon Weisman
    Will I ever see a Dodger complete game again as long as I live? Has any Dodger starter reached the eighth inning yet this year?
    2006-05-17 13:36:42
    170.   Bob Timmermann

    It's a big game in the way that the Super Bowl is a big game.

    2006-05-17 13:37:36
    171.   Telemachos
    Speaking of Arsenal, Nick Hornby's semi-autobiography "Fever Pitch" is worth a read for anyone who's ever had a cherished hobby or been a devoted sports fan. And yes, it's lightyears better than the Drew Barrymore/Jimmy Fallon movie.
    2006-05-17 13:37:37
    172.   capdodger
    167 - It's the biggest of the year for Euro Club teams.
    2006-05-17 13:39:05
    173.   Buffalo Jones
    171 there is an earlier movie version of "Fever Pitch" starring Colin Firth that is much better and more true to the book.
    2006-05-17 13:39:13

    Pujols been awesome also, So it's a safe bet Pujols get's the nod no?

    2006-05-17 13:39:56
    175.   Bob Timmermann
    The British film of "Fever Pitch" is pretty good too. Especially in comparison to the Farrelly brothers version.

    Unless you match the acting chops of Jimmy Fallon against those of Colin Firth.

    2006-05-17 13:40:47
    176.   King of the Hobos
    169 Lowe made it to the eighth once this season, but only got on out in the inning.
    2006-05-17 13:40:56
    177.   Jon Weisman
    174 - It says something about the value of the Gold Glove award that it essentially be decided in May.

    Penny 2, Helton 1. (Arguably, it's Penny 3, Helton 0.)

    2006-05-17 13:42:47
    178.   Buffalo Jones
    175 plus Hornby has a cameo in the British version.
    2006-05-17 13:43:27
    179.   Uncle Miltie
    Clutch walk by Cruz
    2006-05-17 13:44:26
    180.   Bob Timmermann
    It will be a wild night in Barcelona.

    Not that the Spanish are particularly quiet to begin with.

    2006-05-17 13:45:46
    181.   underdog
    Everyone once in awhile, Nomar's aggressiveness at the plates isn't the best thing in the world - that would have been a good time to take a pitch or two. (As Drew just did.)

    175 Heh. I think the A&E Pride and Prejudice would have been far superior had Fallon played Mr D'Arcy.

    2006-05-17 13:46:14
    182.   Uncle Miltie
    Rally killing walk by Drew
    2006-05-17 13:46:23
    183.   Gen3Blue
    I'm sorry to see Jennings is only around 75 pitches. at that rate he could go 8.
    2006-05-17 13:47:05
    Apadaca walks like Jim Colborn.
    2006-05-17 13:47:45
    185.   Uncle Miltie
    2006-05-17 13:49:22
    186.   underdog
    167 Please don't ask that during June's world cup or my head may implode.

    169 Jon, if you can live long enough to see Chad Billingsley pitch... (a CG may not happen 'til 2008 tho.) If Penny's damned back didn't keep falling off, he'd be the most likely candidate, or Lowe, when he's on. But...

    2006-05-17 13:54:53
    187.   Buffalo Jones
    Is there any way get Helton's career numbers against the Dodgers at Coors Field. I lived in Denver from 93-2003 and I swear that everytime I went to a Dodgers/Rockies game Helton wuld hit a homer or two or at least get a big hit. Just curious.
    2006-05-17 13:55:43
    188.   autumnlanding
    Champions League Final is the biggest sporting event in europe, second only to the world cup. it is probably the best idea in sports history. ive never seen something make a bunch of brits so rowdy. i was just watching the game in a pub and i saw 1 guy jump for joy and punch a hole in the ceiling after campbell hit that header for aresnal and 2 guys almost kill eachother after barcelona scored 2 in under 8 minutes. for those of you who dont watch much soccer, i suggest you get ahold of last year's champions league final where liverpool came back from a 3-0 deficit in the last 10mins to tie it up and win it in penalty kicks. best sports match ever.
    2006-05-17 13:56:09
    189.   Buffalo Jones
    187 ...TO get
    2006-05-17 13:57:45
    190.   Prescott Pete
    We need a Barcelona-like comeback.
    2006-05-17 13:58:37
    a little to the left gets the Colorado rockies runner, instead he steals it & Ojeda gets a hit to score the guy that stole the base. GAME OF INCHES!
    2006-05-17 13:59:09
    192.   Bob Timmermann
    Then we need the Rockies to have a player sent off and play the rest of the game with just 8 players.
    2006-05-17 13:59:16
    193.   LAT
    The Dodgers must be on pace to break some sort of record regading giving up runs with two outs. Or at least it seems that way.
    2006-05-17 13:59:37
    194.   Uncle Miltie
    Haha, I played high school soccer, but have no interest in pro soccer. I'd rather watch:
    Baseball, Basketball, College basketball and football, Hockey, Golf, Women's Tennis, The Spelling Bee, pro football.

    I would definitely watch soccer over Nascar though.

    2006-05-17 13:59:43
    195.   capdodger
    190 - We don't have the firepower. I bet we score fewer runs than Arsenal had goals.
    2006-05-17 14:00:19
    196.   JoeyP
    It may seem insignificant, but that was a really really bad at bat by Jamey Carroll. Brad Penny's struggling, he' on 108 pitches, and Carroll swings at the 1st pitch. Next inning the pitcher will have to lead off for the Rockies.
    When you have a pitcher strugglin, why bail him out?
    2006-05-17 14:01:56
    197.   Penarol1916
    188. Any match where an EPL side wins is automatically disqualified as the best sports match ever.
    2006-05-17 14:02:30
    198.   JoeyP
    I lived in Denver from 93-2003 and I swear that everytime I went to a Dodgers/Rockies game Helton wuld hit a homer or two or at least get a big hit.

    It always seemed like Eric Karros would hit half of his HR's playing in Colorado too. EK was generally below average as a 1st basemen in terms of production, but he owned the Rockies.

    2006-05-17 14:03:54
    199.   Penarol1916
    194. Race Car driving and golf are the only two sports where I truly do not understand the spectator appeal.
    2006-05-17 14:05:57
    I love Russell Martin! (HUSTLE)
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2006-05-17 14:06:05
    201.   Buffalo Jones
    That is so true about Eric Karros. Used to drive my friend, who is a diehard Rockies fan, absolutely nuts.
    2006-05-17 14:06:52
    202.   Jon Weisman
    196 - Au contraire, I'm pleased to hear it.
    2006-05-17 14:06:54
    203.   Bob Timmermann
    Karros's OPS at Coors was 1.159.
    It was .893 at Mile High.
    2006-05-17 14:07:30
    204.   underdog
    You think Mariano Duncan is telling Martin "Nice hustle. Now... Never do that AGAIN."
    2006-05-17 14:07:32
    205.   autumnlanding
    194 - watch ronaldhino for 10 seconds and i assure you you would put it above, say, hockey.

    but seriously we have a good cup team and i think we gotta start getting into it because were gonna make it to the finals sometime in this ________ (millenium?)

    2006-05-17 14:07:33
    206.   Uncle Miltie
    I agree with Steve Stone, the headfirst slide in risky and unnecessary. Can we please hire Steve Stone and fire Lyons?
    2006-05-17 14:08:04
    207.   Bill Crain
    These are the runs that make you crazy. Penny's pitch to Ojeda was a good breaking ball, down in the zone, fooled him completely, missed it almost completely, hit only the very top of the ball: result is a weak little grounder that sneaks between third and short. The last out to Drew in right was hit way better. Where is Voros McCracken when we need him and why isn't he doing something about this?
    2006-05-17 14:09:44

    head slide to first, I get cha.

    2006-05-17 14:09:50
    209.   underdog
    Yes! Tomato hits that one the same place that Ojeda did for Colorado in the last inning.
    2006-05-17 14:09:54
    210.   Marty
    in play, run scoring play...
    2006-05-17 14:10:01
    211.   Inside Baseball
    2006-05-17 14:10:25
    212.   gcrl
    i would often pick ek up in my fantasy leagues for a colorado road trip, and then drop him as soon as they left town
    194 and others
    i generally don't care for watching golf or tennis on tv (and i never watch soccer or nascar), but i have to say that two of the most memorable non-baseball tv sports watching events in the for me were mickelson winning the masters for the first time and agassi's first wimbledon win.
    2006-05-17 14:10:51
    213.   Prescott Pete
    Goal!!! Killer Tomato, Goal!!!
    2006-05-17 14:10:53
    214.   Uncle Miltie
    Old Maid with a seeing eye single. I thought it was going to be a double play.
    2006-05-17 14:11:10
    215.   Linkmeister
    206 I'm glad you don't tar all guys named Steve with the same brush.
    2006-05-17 14:11:38
    216.   JoeyP
    "Range" cant be Garrett Atkins best attribute.
    2006-05-17 14:11:47
    217.   Bill Crain
    Thanks, Olmedo. I feel better now.
    2006-05-17 14:11:47
    218.   Buffalo Jones
    203 Mile High was a ridiculously bad baseball stadium.
    2006-05-17 14:12:02
    219.   underdog
    205 Don't worry, I'm already very excited about it. The US has a really tough cup draw this year, but hopefully they can sneak into the second round. Maybe Italy's distractions this month will help.

    Sigh, Furcal is useless against Jennings.

    2006-05-17 14:12:03
    220.   Jon Weisman
    211 - Did you see Scrubs last night?
    2006-05-17 14:14:41
    221.   Bob Timmermann
    I can't find double splits for Helton (at home against a particular opponent).

    Coming into this season, his career OPS against the Dodgers was 1.006.

    During his career, his OPS is about .350 higher at home than on the road.

    If you figure that Helton's appearances against the Dodgers are roughly even between home and road and he hits as well against the Dodgers as he does anyone else, then you can come up with a figure that might be almost, but not quite, entirely not in alignment with his actual performance.

    2006-05-17 14:14:50
    222.   Linkmeister
    I swear, Furcal's having the kind of year Renteria had in Boston after signing over there.
    2006-05-17 14:15:46
    Jennings seems to be loosing some steam.
    2006-05-17 14:15:59
    224.   Penarol1916
    219. I'm still having trouble getting excited about it, and I completely blame Australia.
    2006-05-17 14:16:30
    225.   Buffalo Jones
    221 Thanks
    2006-05-17 14:17:02
    226.   Dr Love
    Of course, right after they get done talking about how both catchers have done a really good job of blocking balls, one gets by Ojeda.

    Man, it's been a while since I've been here.

    2006-05-17 14:17:17
    227.   Uncle Miltie
    That was a great at bat by Cruz
    2006-05-17 14:18:02
    228.   Uncle Miltie
    Nomar Godciaparra does it again. I have to go to class now.
    2006-05-17 14:18:09
    all hail Nomar!
    2006-05-17 14:19:01
    230.   Humma Kavula
    Man, has it been easy, easy, easy to root for Nomar.
    2006-05-17 14:19:13
    231.   ninjavshippo
    please stay healthy nomar!
    2006-05-17 14:19:27
    232.   Inside Baseball

    220 No, surprisingly I've never seen it. Some sort of coincidence I guess...

    2006-05-17 14:19:52
    233.   underdog
    Think Hurdle left Jennings in there one batter too long? (In hindsight, obviously. But I was thinking Nomar hadn't done anything against him today. On the other hand, he seemed to have lost a lot of steam, you're right.) On the other hand, who cares! We're up.
    2006-05-17 14:19:57
    234.   JoeyP
    Dear Clint Hurdle:

    Thanks for not pulling your dead tired pitcher.



    2006-05-17 14:20:35
    235.   Bob Timmermann
    "Old Friend" alert!
    2006-05-17 14:20:38
    236.   Buffalo Jones
    makes that Cruz at bat all the more impressive
    2006-05-17 14:20:43

    witty name. hahahah

    2006-05-17 14:20:56
    238.   underdog
    Ah, our former friend Tom Martin is now in.
    2006-05-17 14:21:22
    239.   Curtis Lowe
    2006-05-17 14:21:45
    240.   Disabled List

    Dear Nomar:

    I was just following your manager's playbook.


    Clint Hurdle

    2006-05-17 14:21:56
    241.   sanchez101
    April 2005: 228/269/337 6w 11k
    April 2006: 198/306/219 15w 14k
    May 17, 2005: 157ab 228/274/327 10w 23k
    May 17, 2006: 162ab 228/328/302 24w 26k

    im not to worried, yet

    2006-05-17 14:22:15
    242.   ninjavshippo
    that'll do, pig. that'll do.
    2006-05-17 14:22:41
    243.   sanchez101
    241. those stats are for Furcal, btw
    2006-05-17 14:23:03
    244.   Gen3Blue
    Can Penny keep pitching?
    2006-05-17 14:23:17
    245.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    Nomar should definitly make the All-Star team.
    2006-05-17 14:24:06
    246.   ninjavshippo
    here comes the bull.

    hey, does anyone know the origin of that nick?

    2006-05-17 14:24:11
    247.   Gen3Blue
    2006-05-17 14:24:50
    248.   Buffalo Jones
    You think Saito will close?
    2006-05-17 14:25:10
    249.   Bob Timmermann
    I assumed Broxton was called "Bull" because he is approximately the size of one.
    2006-05-17 14:25:15
    the bull is pitching, he hasn't pitched for a while let's hope he's sharp.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2006-05-17 14:25:32
    251.   Disabled List
    Two-run lead. Coors Field. Dodger bullpen.

    Why am I suddenly nauseous?

    2006-05-17 14:25:49
    252.   Gen3Blue
    I hope Broxton can show some control and "command" now or its all over.
    2006-05-17 14:26:18
    253.   scareduck
    249 - and in this inning it appears he's throwing like one.
    2006-05-17 14:26:56
    254.   Curtis Lowe
    Daaaaaa Bulll.
    2006-05-17 14:28:23

    I heard some other blogger say it, it sounded cool so I just went with it.

    2006-05-17 14:28:39
    256.   ninjavshippo
    249- i figured the same. i think he's listed conservatively at 288.
    2006-05-17 14:29:45
    What do you know! 1,2,3
    2006-05-17 14:31:04
    258.   Curtis Lowe
    Pffffft can't even strikeout the side. This kid has noo future.
    2006-05-17 14:31:11
    259.   Bob Timmermann
    A real bull will weigh around one ton.

    Remember that when you're drunk in Pamplona.

    2006-05-17 14:31:30
    260.   ninjavshippo
    can you win ROY as a middle relieving RP? just wondering...
    2006-05-17 14:31:34
    261.   Buffalo Jones
    I hope Broxton stays in for the eighth
    2006-05-17 14:31:53
    262.   Jon Weisman
    This is a case where, because Broxton got the side out in order, Little may be at peace letting him face Helton the next inning. If Broxton walks Luis Gonzalez to lead off the inning(he went to 3-2), then Little would probably be thinking about bringing Beimel in to face Helton in the seventh. That was a very needed pitch to strike out Gonzalez.
    2006-05-17 14:32:29
    263.   3upn3down
    I believe I was the one who gave him Bull as a nickname!

    I'm Ron Burgandy?

    2006-05-17 14:33:01
    264.   MartinBillingsley31
    Is it time to move furcal out of the 1 spot and move the obp machine martin into the 1 spot.
    2006-05-17 14:33:22
    265.   Disabled List
    Side note on the UEFA Final today: Here in New York, I was walking home from work around 4, and every bar I walked past was PACKED with people watching TV. I had a brain-dead moment and assumed they were watching the Dodgers-Rockies game on ESPN.

    It wasn't until I passed a falafel joint and saw everyone watching the soccer game on the TV inside that I figured out what was going on.

    Side side note: Happiness is a Dodger day game, during happy hour, with free wi-fi.

    2006-05-17 14:35:00
    266.   Curtis Lowe

    Watching the Dodgers Own Brad Lidge feels pretty good too.

    2006-05-17 14:36:06
    267.   Linkmeister
    265 It's a (late) breakfast game out here in Hawai'i.
    2006-05-17 14:37:55
    268.   3upn3down
    I want to appologize to all of the clippers fans out there. I was responsible for their 11-0 run in the third that helped them errase that 19pt deficit. I did so by not moving an inch while the run was in place. After 20 minutes of not moving, I could not tolerate the position my legs were in, and had to move a little. I snapped the run, and I think had I been able to hold it another 10 real minutes (2 game minutes) they would have been able to build an insurmountable lead. My appologies.

    I live in Dallas, so I was up until 1:15 watching that thing last night. Does anyome else think its ridiculous that each side gets 2 full and 1 or 2 20 sec timeouts for each OT period? The period is only 5 mins long. No reason those Ot should take 30 minutes plus to unfold. (steps off soap box)

    2006-05-17 14:39:41
    269.   Jon Weisman
    268 - I'm sure Clipper fans sincerely appreciate your mea culpa. That's very decent of you.
    2006-05-17 14:39:46
    270.   Linkmeister
    265 Should have added that it could be (could be, mind you) happy hour for bloody marys.
    2006-05-17 14:41:12
    271.   Jacob L
    262 Or not.
    2006-05-17 14:41:17
    272.   Jon Weisman
    Well, I would have liked to have seen Broxton face Helton, but Grady likes his Beimel. It is an L-R-L inning, so it's understandable on that leve, but I thought Broxton earned the chance.
    2006-05-17 14:41:56
    273.   Curtis Lowe

    I agree.

    2006-05-17 14:42:19
    I don't know about you guys but I don't like that camera angle fox/prime provides.
    2006-05-17 14:43:06
    Wow! look at Drew hustle! (not)
    2006-05-17 14:43:12
    276.   Marty
    Beimel's gameday photo is weird. He looks dangerous, like he could snap at any moment.
    2006-05-17 14:43:25
    277.   Jacob L
    Grady likes his "whoever hasn't burned me lately." That doesn't make Beimel his best reliever, and at some point he might actually have to get Baez back out there.
    2006-05-17 14:44:27
    Let's get a DP.
    2006-05-17 14:45:39
    279.   3upn3down
    Does anyone viewing the game on TV know if Baez is up in the pen?
    2006-05-17 14:45:39
    280.   Jon Weisman
    277 - That could easily be today. I don't think Grady is overly resistant to bringing Baez back. But Saito could be next.
    2006-05-17 14:46:07
    They have a camera on the back & you can't tell if it's a ball or a strike.
    2006-05-17 14:46:23
    282.   Andrew Shimmin
    Well. At least Aybar didn't do that.
    2006-05-17 14:46:36
    283.   Dr Love
    Ugh. Pay attention Nomar!
    2006-05-17 14:46:53
    284.   Marty
    Honeycutt's visit paid dividends.
    2006-05-17 14:47:36
    285.   Marty
    284 oops. Watching Gameday, I thought it was a basehit.
    2006-05-17 14:47:50
    286.   Curtis Lowe
    Is this revenge for the Havoc the 04 team brought to bullpens?
    2006-05-17 14:48:27
    287.   Marty
    Make room for Danys.
    2006-05-17 14:48:35

    Baez is coming in. This will be interesting heart pounding really fast nah let's hope he redeems him self.

    2006-05-17 14:48:43
    289.   scareduck
    Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.
    2006-05-17 14:48:52
    290.   Telemachos
    Can Robles be benched in favor of Aybar now?


    2006-05-17 14:49:01
    291.   godvls
    171 - As a Spurs supporter, it is difficult for me to abide anything ARSEnal related, but Fever Pitch was truly an outstanding book. I agree that the earlier Colin Firth version of the movie was much better than the American release, but it still pales in comparison to the book.

    A good friend of mine is a Gooner and flew out to Paris for the final.....I'm sure he's gutted right about now. Does anyone remember "One Flew Over Seaman's Head" or "Nayim From the Halfway Line" ???

    2006-05-17 14:49:15
    292.   Andrew Shimmin
    283- No way could Nomar have made a play there. It was just a bad throw.
    2006-05-17 14:49:17
    293.   FirstMohican
    283 - I'm on GameDay and it's officially Robles'. Was it Nomar's fault?
    2006-05-17 14:49:56
    294.   Jacob L
    Wow. Not only giving the ball back to Baez, but asking him, apparently, to get 5 outs with the go-ahead run on base.
    2006-05-17 14:50:33
    295.   Bob Timmermann
    Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
    2006-05-17 14:50:38
    Nice time for a DP with the cathcer hitting.
    2006-05-17 14:50:45
    297.   bhsportsguy
    This reminds of those dreaded Jeff Shaw days, however this bullpen (discounting Gagne and Baez) is probably the least experienced and lowest paid in a couple of years.
    2006-05-17 14:50:54
    thank you
    2006-05-17 14:51:31
    299.   Jon Weisman
    290 - At this rate, Ramon Martinez will be starting at third next.
    2006-05-17 14:51:55
    300.   Telemachos
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2006-05-17 14:51:59
    301.   capdodger
    283 Pay attention to what? I wouldn't really call that an attempt to go to second.
    2006-05-17 14:52:18
    302.   kngoworld
    2006-05-17 14:52:44
    303.   Prescott Pete
    Baez -- the Red Bull.
    2006-05-17 14:52:45
    304.   Linkmeister
    (mops sweat from brow)
    2006-05-17 14:53:05
    305.   3upn3down
    That GDP makes you feel good. A run or two in the top of the 9th would too. Come on Blue.
    2006-05-17 14:53:58


    2006-05-17 14:54:18
    307.   ninjavshippo
    would it be fair to say beimel didn't impress?
    2006-05-17 14:54:30
    308.   capdodger
    293 The runner dodged Nomar and his tag by going to the inside. He ended up running down the line a few feet inside of the foul line and the guys in the ESPN booth though he was making a turn to go to second.
    2006-05-17 14:56:08
    309.   Inside Baseball
    Interesting call by Grady coming up. Does he bring in Saito, possibly hurting Baez' new found confidence? Or does he leave him in, possibly hurting Baez' new found confidence?
    2006-05-17 14:56:48
    no way was that a strike, the other pitch maybe but not that one. come on blue!
    2006-05-17 14:57:14
    311.   Jon Weisman
    So the run was earned, then.
    2006-05-17 14:57:15
    312.   3upn3down
    309, I'm for plan B.
    2006-05-17 14:57:51
    313.   ninjavshippo
    2Ks and a 1st pitch groundout. not great for your leadoff man.
    2006-05-17 14:58:13
    314.   Jon Weisman
    Leave Baez in, have Saito warming up. Simple.
    2006-05-17 14:58:15
    315.   3upn3down
    I missed the Furcal AB. Did he swing at teh first pitch? If so, brilliant.
    2006-05-17 14:59:01

    Id leave 'um in, Little likes keeping things intiresting. ;)

    2006-05-17 14:59:14
    317.   Jacob L
    You might have Baez on a short leash, but no way he doesn't start the ninth now.
    2006-05-17 14:59:15
    318.   ninjavshippo
    on gameday, that first ball against JC jr is posted on his left thigh. was it that close?
    2006-05-17 14:59:38
    319.   Dr Love
    He ended up running down the line a few feet inside of the foul line and the guys in the ESPN booth though he was making a turn to go to second.

    That's only part of it. After he took a step to avoid Nomar, he turned kind of towards 2B for a step or two. It was questionable whether or not he fully turned, but Nomar--who was looking right at him--should have at least tagged him just to be safe. Maybe the ump calls him out, maybe he doesn't, but you gotta try.

    2006-05-17 14:59:55


    2006-05-17 15:00:02
    321.   kngoworld
    2006-05-17 15:00:15
    322.   gcrl
    no. the pitch was behind him
    2006-05-17 15:00:43
    323.   Jon Weisman
    Dodgers are 20-20 overall, 5-10 in one-run games.

    Giants are 20-20 overall, 5-2 in one-run games.

    Rockies are 22-18 overall, 10-5 in one-run games.

    That's good for the Dodgers overall, though perhaps not calming for the ninth inning.

    2006-05-17 15:01:46
    324.   underdog
    I'm scared. Somebody hold me.
    2006-05-17 15:02:17
    "put you're kittens on you're mittens & away we go" Greece quote.
    2006-05-17 15:02:47

    hahahahaha!!! oh man!!

    2006-05-17 15:04:40
    walking the first batter = disaster.
    2006-05-17 15:05:15
    if he dosn't = good job.
    2006-05-17 15:05:25
    329.   ninjavshippo
    this guy's first name is choo?
    2006-05-17 15:06:05
    330.   ninjavshippo
    this guy's first name is choo?
    2006-05-17 15:06:29
    331.   Linkmeister
    Vinnie: "Well, that's a mess," talking about Furcal and Martinez.

    Have I ever said how much I enjoy listening to the guy?

    2006-05-17 15:07:30
    332.   Jon Weisman
    329-330 That might be the most appropriate double post ever.
    2006-05-17 15:08:27
    333.   Bob Timmermann
    Freeman's real first name is Raphael.
    2006-05-17 15:08:35
    334.   Disabled List
    Does any pitcher in baseball have as much trouble finishing a hitter off on a 2-strike count as Danys Baez?
    2006-05-17 15:08:50
    335.   3upn3down
    If its me right here, I throw over to first 2-3 times before I even come to the plate with my first pitch.
    2006-05-17 15:08:59
    Baez is defenitly nervous here.
    2006-05-17 15:09:26
    337.   underdog
    Okay, that ball did not hit any part of the hitter. SHEESH. Give us a little break.
    2006-05-17 15:09:27
    338.   kngoworld
    King of the Obvious
    2006-05-17 15:09:30
    339.   Marty
    Great, now he hits the guy. So he can face Helton.
    2006-05-17 15:09:34
    340.   capdodger
    That hit his bat. That's a strike.
    2006-05-17 15:09:40
    341.   Inside Baseball
    Time for the hidden ball trick...
    2006-05-17 15:09:56
    342.   3upn3down
    2006-05-17 15:10:14
    343.   ninjavshippo
    332- brilliant |-D
    2006-05-17 15:12:09
    344.   underdog
    Also.. what the HECK is that Rockies mascot supposed to be? A Triceratops?

    Oh yeah, and we won, too. ........ WHEW.

    2006-05-17 15:12:33
    345.   3upn3down
    2006-05-17 15:12:35
    346.   Linkmeister
    Two hands, Drew, thank you.
    2006-05-17 15:12:55
    347.   JoeyP
    Remember when Helton was good?
    2006-05-17 15:13:46
    348.   scareduck
    Danys Baez gets to cash his "get out of Colorado Free" card.
    2006-05-17 15:14:04
    349.   Disabled List
    That was a Grady Little-esque loss for the Rockies. They stuck with Jennings just a little too long, and it cost them the game.
    2006-05-17 15:14:20
    350.   regfairfield
    347 You mean like, now?
    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2006-05-17 15:14:37
    351.   Curtis Lowe
    I didn't realize Springer was sooo cool.
    2006-05-17 15:15:06
    352.   JoeyP
    Say what you want about Baez, but he does provide entertainment. And if a baseball game keeps you tuned in until the final out, thats really all you can ask for.
    2006-05-17 15:15:21
    353.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    Helton pops it up, Baez confidence is coming along, the dodgers go home. YES!
    2006-05-17 15:15:50
    354.   underdog
    You know, except for one bad pitch that resulted in a hit (and that "hit batter" which didn't hit the batter) Baez pitched well for 1plus innings. The only thing that he didn't do was throw a wild pitch that hit the triceratops mascot.
    2006-05-17 15:16:05
    355.   Curtis Lowe
    349- Looked more like a manager who's winning percentage is .580 Win to me.
    2006-05-17 15:16:21
    356.   capdodger
    319 As soon as he hit the bag he started slowing down. Any movement in that direction was because of trying to avoid the tag. Like you say, it might have been called, it might not have, but Nomar was watching the runner who had advanced to second (which is another reason I don't think the batter made a turn there).
    2006-05-17 15:17:30
    357.   JoeyP
    Baez pitched well for 1plus innings

    He faced Miguel Ojeda, Jamey Carroll, and Choo Freemen until getting into trouble. I think thats the reason.

    2006-05-17 15:19:25
    358.   Jon Weisman
    Bob quickly updates the Griddle Conference Standings.
    2006-05-17 15:19:29
    Good confidence builder for Baez, Good for him.
    2006-05-17 15:20:26
    360.   Buffalo Jones
    The mascot's name is Dinger and yes he is a Triceratops. Apparently they found a dinosaur bone or egg or something when breaking ground for Coors.

    On a side note, do the Mariners play in Denver this year. If so, I hope Carl Everett makes the trip.

    2006-05-17 15:20:59
    361.   JoeyP
    They stuck with Jennings just a little too long, and it cost them the game.

    True. Another factor is the Rockies drew 0 walks. Tough to win when you have no patience.

    2006-05-17 15:21:06
    362.   Marty
    Refreshingly low scoring games for Coors Field. Odalis might even be able to pitch there.
    2006-05-17 15:21:07
    363.   Jacob L
    I'm starting to think that, at some point, all five teams in the west will be in a flat-footed tie. Is that possible? Has it ever happened before beyond, say, the first week of the season?
    2006-05-17 15:21:48
    364.   JoeyP
    361. Should have said tough to "score runs", when you have patience. I guess the Rox could have still won by drawing 0 walks.
    2006-05-17 15:22:31
    365.   capdodger
    Oh good.... The UEFA CL Final will be replayed on ESPN at 12:30 ESPN.
    2006-05-17 15:23:26
    366.   Jon Weisman
    363 - I feel like the AL West had something close to that in recent years.
    2006-05-17 15:23:56
    367.   Gen3Blue
    Due to a rather intense family situation, I had to confer during the ninth. I looked at the screen,sound off, and swear I saw a pitch hit a dodger in the leg.(it may have been Cruz). A bit later I looked back and the guy was back in the batters box with a sly grin on his face. Later I saw Baez with two guys on looking ready to blow it. I left until it was over, amazed the D's win.
    What was with this hit batter not getting a base?
    2006-05-17 15:24:13
    368.   underdog
    357 Yeah... But Ojed'd had two hits earlier. (Not super impressive hits mind you.) And getting Todd Helton out doesn't count either? I'm just saying, let's hope it's a start for some confidence for him.

    360 Thanks. I like how Steve Phillips admitted to hoping that foul ball would have landed on Dinger's head. I guess a guy dressed in a giant mountain suit wouldn't have made a great mascot, either.

    2006-05-17 15:25:13
    369.   capdodger
    367 - It was close, but Fuentes didn't hit Cruz.
    2006-05-17 15:25:54
    370.   underdog
    367 Cruz was just missed by that pitch (and wasn't happy about the location); due to the shadows of the stadium and the speed it did at first look like he was hit.
    2006-05-17 15:25:58
    371.   LAT
    I'm sure getting tired of the Baez high wire act. Stiener made it sound like Baez' control wasn't very good. . . again.
    2006-05-17 15:31:09
    372.   JoeyP
    I'm just saying, let's hope it's a start for some confidence for him.

    No, you had said he had pitched well for 1+ innings. I merely pointed out the reason for it.

    I probably would never say a pitcher (any pitcher) had pitched well if they retired Ojeda, Carroll, and Freemen. I expect most pitcher to get them out. I also look at the fashion in which they do it (did they strike out the players out for example.). I dont really think Baez pitched any better or poorly today than any other day. Thats the point I was making. Baez looked the same today.

    2006-05-17 15:31:16
    373.   bluegold
    Baez came in with a 1 run lead, protected the 1-run win. That's what a closer does. That is good enough for me.
    2006-05-17 15:33:18
    374.   Gen3Blue
    370 Thanx. Man it sure looked like he was hit, but that clears up the logic.
    2006-05-17 15:35:44
    375.   Prescott Pete
    362 - During the Fox Denver pregame show before the series opener, they revisited the "baseballs in the humidor" story concerning Coors Field. After showing the balls in the humidor, the discussion centered on the effectiveness of the humidor.

    The commentator's verdict was clear -- it works.

    By the way, just a reminder for those who care, Kobe v. Chuck in TNT studio tonight.

    2006-05-17 15:36:33
    376.   Steve
    Now that Baez's confidence is back, can we trade him for Brad Lidge?
    2006-05-17 15:37:34
    377.   dsfan
    Aybar is supposed to be a pretty good 3B, but it's evident that Little considers him a defensive liability over there.

    The Dodgers have far more information on what sort of defense Aybar has been playing. Is is possible he's developed a nervous arm? It happens. Does he need to improve his footwork on his throws? Perhaps.

    But this ain't good. I really hope Aybar can earn some trust over there. Really, he's the best alternative at 3B -- but he's got to show he can be trusted. It's looming as a critical week for him.

    2006-05-17 15:37:39
    378.   Jon Weisman
    All this talk of the importance of making Baez confident is a little disconcerting. I'm sure he was confident right up to the time his slump began. I'm sure he was just as nervous pitching in San Francisco last weekend than he was today.

    Baez is what he is - a guy who will sometimes do the job, maybe more often than not. Neither today's game nor the San Francisco collapse are indicative of any trend. It's good that he got the save today because he got the save today. It doesn't make him a better pitcher going forward.

    2006-05-17 15:42:15
    379.   Prescott Pete
    Concerning Baez, Steve Phillips said his fastball was "flat" and that last year his fastball had more sink. Steve Stone said he thought Baez was having trouble pitching in a major market.
    2006-05-17 15:43:24

    but it dose built some kind of confidence in him no.

    2006-05-17 15:44:27

    just imagine if he dosen't get the save & BLOWS IT yet again, what dose that do to his confidence. I'm sure he'll blow another save but it dose help.

    2006-05-17 15:44:57
    382.   underdog
    It doesn't. And it does. I'm sorry but a big part of being a reliever (other than talent) is the mind - whether it's confidence, psychology or whatever you want to term it. No, today won't suddenly make him a better pitcher. I'm still nervous every time he goes out there, and after witnessing Saturday's implosion it'll take more than today's save to make me less nervous, but I don't think it's fair to completely discount the psychology of relief pitching, either. Ask the aforementioned Lidge. Meanwhile, I still think Little's doing a bullpen by committee til Gagne's back and ready to be full time closer again and that's right by me.
    2006-05-17 15:47:04
    383.   Bob Timmermann
    I never knew the action on fastballs was dependent upon external economic factors.
    2006-05-17 15:48:11
    384.   Inside Baseball
    378 - Yes, but you have to admit that a pitcher's psychological makeup can have a lot to say about their performance. I do believe notching this save can only help Baez going forward. When a guy goes on a bad run like Baez did, you can't tell me that it has no effect on how he pitches the next time out. Losing the last save chance to Saito, Baez needed this. I'm not saying all of a sudden he'll be a better pitcher than he is normally, but maybe he'll be his normal self, as opposed to his slumping self. I think we'd all take that.
    2006-05-17 15:51:47
    385.   underdog
    383 He pitches better in Latin American economies than he does in "today's wintry economic climate." (Being John Malkovich.)
    2006-05-17 15:53:50
    386.   Bob Timmermann
    I couldn't find a division that ever had all of its team with the same record outside of the first week of the season.

    But this was the AL East on May 12, 1973

    AL East

    Milwaukee 27 13 14 0 .481
    Detroit 30 14 16 0 .467 0.5
    Baltimore 28 13 15 0 .464 0.5
    New York 28 13 15 0 .464 0.5
    Cleveland 31 14 17 0 .452 1.0
    Boston 27 12 15 0 .444 1.0

    2006-05-17 15:55:04
    387.   Steve
    I think we'd all take that.

    Not on your life.

    2006-05-17 15:56:44
    388.   Jacob L
    Not to agree with Steve Phillips, but . . .

    if there really is something to being a "proven closer," e.g. that a guy's got the stones to get the supposed "three toughest outs of the game," then how exactly does one earn that title pitching for Tampa Bay? How much pressure is there when failure in any given game means you might finish 31 games back rather than 30?

    2006-05-17 15:57:12
    389.   Inside Baseball
    387 - my bad.
    2006-05-17 15:58:06

    good point, I kinda hate people that know how to explain things better than me. ;o)

    2006-05-17 15:59:38
    391.   LAT
    Baez came in with a 1 run lead, protected the 1-run win. That's what a closer does. That is good enough for me.

    But he doesn't get the job done. He has 5 blown saves. Everyone assumes he pitched well today so his confidence will be restored. He pitched ok at best. No control. No Ks. Within a pitch of blowing another save. I don't think today does anything to restore his confidence. When he comes in a starts mowing people down his confidence will come back and that ain't today.

    2006-05-17 16:03:04
    392.   Bob Timmermann

    I think Jon's point here is that Baez isn't suddenly more "clutch" than he was before. He is still the same pitcher. He just had a better outcome.

    The "clutch" pitcher and "clutch" hitter are chimeras that baseball fans and some baseball execs keep chasing after and they never seem to be able to identify one.

    2006-05-17 16:03:50
    393.   underdog
    Speaking of relief pitchers, I may be on this blog a bit less for a little while. The Yankees just called me up to replace Tanyon Sturtze. Wish me luck!
    2006-05-17 16:04:59
    394.   Jon Weisman
    384 - "378 - Yes, but you have to admit that a pitcher's psychological makeup can have a lot to say about their performance."

    Reread what I wrote in 378. Is there any reason to think that Baez was lacking confidence when his slump began?

    I'm not saying mental things don't matter. But you are reading so much into this. If confidence matters as much as you say, he wouldn't have gotten the save today. Presumably, his confidence was at its lowest going into today's game.

    "he'll be his normal self, as opposed to his slumping self"

    His normal self includes slumps. I can't emphasize that point enough. You can't look at Baez and see him either as all good or all bad. It's nonsensical.

    2006-05-17 16:06:16
    395.   Jon Weisman
    (I set up Steve for a nice quip with my penultimate sentence in 394.)
    2006-05-17 16:07:07
    396.   LAT
    I'm looking forward to going to Friday's game. Jeff Weaver should be twice the head case he usually is. I just hope Sele doesn't suffer from the same "pitching against my old team" malady. Although he has already done that when he was with Seattle so hopefully it will be out of his system. This will be Jeff's first game back in Dodger Stadium.
    2006-05-17 16:08:07
    397.   Jacob L
    393 - Who is Tanyon Sturtze? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear Kobayashi tell it, anybody could have worked for Sturtze. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
    2006-05-17 16:09:45
    398.   underdog
    Test case: Is Jeff Weaver lacking confidence, or does he just suck? {{duck}} ;-)
    2006-05-17 16:10:03
    399.   Nagman
    But maybe Baez, as a result of today's "success" may have more confidence in throwing something other than a fastball, and even with the fastball, maybe try to hit corners instead of worrying about getting behind in the count.

    A closer without confidence in his pitches, I assume, would be a lousy closer.

    2006-05-17 16:10:38
    400.   underdog
    397 Hah hah.

    Their bullpen is definitely full of the usual suspects, that's for sure.

    Show/Hide Comments 401-450
    2006-05-17 16:13:42
    401.   Jon Weisman
    399 - Well, that's completely speculative - I'm sure he was trying to hit corners during his so-called unconfident stage - but let's say hypothetically you're right. Even a confident Baez is completely mediocre, and a Baez lacking in confidence is not much worse. Even a confident Baez will still miss with his pitches, he will still tire. Why do I say this? Because back when Baez was "confident," this was happening.

    I can't believe I'm alone in thinking this.

    2006-05-17 16:14:29
    402.   regfairfield
    Don't worry, you aren't.
    2006-05-17 16:17:04
    403.   Jon Weisman
    If Baez is really a professional, he understands that sometimes you lose with your best stuff and win without it. Yes, he'll be relieved today that he's not in some Job-like nightmare, but I think that's about as far as that goes.

    If Baez faces Vlad Friday night with two on and two out in a one-run game, I don't think his chances of success or failure have been altered significantly by what happened today. He'd still be in deep trouble, and hoping. He'll know he can get Guerrero out, but I absolutely refuse to believe that he pitched to Helton thinking that he could not get Helton out.

    2006-05-17 16:17:57
    404.   Marty
    395 You just wanted to be able to use "penultimate"
    2006-05-17 16:20:50
    405.   Inside Baseball
    394 - When I wrote "normal self," I didn't mean to imply that his normal self is "all good." I meant the Baez that includes his save conversions and those blown, his good games, his bad games, and all in between.

    I think we're both saying the same thing basically, except maybe I place a slightly higher value on the psyches of players. Players are human, and I think a little good fortune can go a long way in helping their future performance. Not that it will, or that it should, just that it can.

    2006-05-17 16:24:49
    406.   underdog
    Well, you may be right Jon. I think my biggest thing with Baez is just that I actually saw him pitch a couple of times last year (yes, someone saw a Tampa Bay game - once against the A's, and once on TV) and he appeared to have better stuff last year. I think some of what those announcers said may be right - in that there's less pressure to pitch in TB, where most games are essentially meaningless and under less scrutiny - or there could be something else wrong. Either way, I did see some talent with Baez last year, and even though 41 saves in mostly unimportant (in a playoff picture sense) games isn't as impressive as it sounds on the surface, between that and what I saw last year I think the guy has some good stuff. The question is then, what's wrong this year? Adjustment to a new league (and a new team, new catchers, coaches, etc.) Not pitching smart? Overthrowing? All of the above? I've just been trying to figure it out. Maybe he is destined to just be another mediocre reliever, but I saw something in him last year and obviously the Dodgers did too, to like him. Where he's at now, and why, is the question and the only reason for my searching around.

    But thinking about their bullpen, and debating it, makes my headcold feel even worse, and I know I'm not alone there either ;-) so for now I'll just be happy they won, and even happier to take a nap.

    2006-05-17 16:24:56
    407.   Bob Timmermann
    You give Jon props for using "penultimate" while I use "chimeras" and get nothing! Nothing!

    Tough room here.

    2006-05-17 16:25:34
    408.   Langhorne

    You're not. Let me say this as clearly as possible. Confidence is not an issue. It doesn't exist. It lurks in the shadows with other bugaboos, like chemistry, until the light of reason chases them away.

    2006-05-17 16:30:56
    409.   Marty
    407. I meant to, but I'm sucking up to Jon hoping he can get me a discount membership in his museum.
    2006-05-17 16:31:21
    410.   Jon Weisman
    405 - It's bugging me that you interpret what I'm saying as me not realizing players are human. What I'm saying is that confidence is only of X value, and that all kinds of other human frailties come into play.

    And, yes to 404.

    2006-05-17 16:34:56
    411.   Jon Weisman
    409 - How about two years at 20% off? Or is that still too rich for your blood?
    2006-05-17 16:35:55
    412.   Eric L
    406 Just to throw it out there, Baez did pitch in 43 games (50+ innings) for the 2001 Indians and they won their division. He also pitched in 3 games during the division series that year.

    Wasn't he on the Cuban national team before he defected? I would imagine he pitched in some high pressure situations for that team as well.

    2006-05-17 16:36:47
    413.   Jon Weisman
    406 - Baez has had good stuff some days this year. I'm sure he didn't have it on some days last year.
    2006-05-17 16:37:20
    414.   Jacob L
    I think we all want to tip the ol' hat toward "penultimate" because we all know what it means. Nobody here, I'm sure, thinks it means anything like "quintessential."

    "Chimera," on the other hand? Lets just say I'm working from context clues. Its not that its a tough room. You've got us intimidated.

    Speaking of tough rooms, I feel like my promptly researched, extended "Usual Suspects" reference just went completely by the boards.

    2006-05-17 16:39:36
    415.   Jon Weisman
    414 - No, that was a good one.
    2006-05-17 16:40:22
    416.   Jacob L
    Ah, validation from our host. I guess I can get back to work now.
    2006-05-17 16:40:48
    417.   Inside Baseball
    410 - I'm sorry, that was not my intent, and fair enough.

    I guess it's just not my day to express myself well. Hopefully this won't hurt my confidence in making quality posts next time out. ;)

    I'm be off-line for a while. Thanks for a thought-provoking discourse.

    2006-05-17 16:41:01
    418.   Linkmeister
    A chimera is an unseen whatsit, like the Dodgers in a World Series phenomenon.

    What's the deal with Jon and his museum? I musta missed that thread.

    2006-05-17 16:42:12
    419.   Jon Weisman
    417 - Shoot, hope I didn't chase you away. Not my intention at all.
    2006-05-17 16:43:35
    420.   Jon Weisman
    418 - It's nothing, I just work at a museum, but I'm not a curator. I do writing and editing of all kinds of things, except catalogs.
    2006-05-17 16:43:45
    421.   Bob Timmermann
    Jon is able to paint a picture with words like Brad Anderson drawing a "Marmaduke" cartoon.
    2006-05-17 16:44:58
    422.   Curtis Lowe
    Low Confidence is bad for the mojø.
    2006-05-17 16:45:23
    423.   Jacob L
    420 You and my wife are colleagues.

    Getting back to work . . .

    2006-05-17 16:47:31
    424.   Jon Weisman
    423 - Okay, I've got the staff directory open to the Ls ...
    2006-05-17 16:50:03
    425.   Linkmeister
    420 Ah. Thanks. I can now make all kinds of insidery jokes about museums and hope they'll be understood, thanks to my familiarity with my mother's former employer.
    2006-05-17 16:50:15
    426.   Jacob L
    424 That won't work on either count. She neither works at LACMA, nor does her last name start with L. I just meant that she does research, writing, editing, etc. for a museum (CA Science Center).
    2006-05-17 16:52:49
    427.   Jon Weisman
    426 - Oh. We're spiritual colleagues.
    2006-05-17 16:56:54
    428.   Jon Weisman
    Katharine McPhee went to Notre Dame HS, which means she probably knew some highly recruited college placekicker.

    It is a ... gushing article.

    2006-05-17 17:11:25
    429.   DodgerJoe
    I went to Notre Dame myself, but I date her by a little less than 10 years.

    There were 2 highly regarded placekickers recently, Chris Sailor in '95 and Kai Forbath this past year. She falls in between.

    2006-05-17 17:13:40
    430.   Jon Weisman
    As Eric Sondheimer as my witness, Notre Dame must have generated more than two kickers.
    2006-05-17 17:17:55
    431.   Inside Baseball
    419 Not at all Jon, I just had to get home. And now I'm on baby-duty so goodbye for now.
    2006-05-17 17:24:02
    432.   Bob Timmermann
    Forbath had that job for a while. Sailer was the kicker for at least three years.

    I don't cover Notre Dame too often though since they are always good. But I did cover a couple of games that Justin Fargas played in. And he is at the top of the list of players I was most impressed by.

    Loyola High produces good kickers too. So does Los Alamitos.

    Loyola High had the Stonehouse brothers, both of whom got college scholarships (USC and Stanford) Paul holds my personal prep game record for biggest negative play, completing a forward pass for -35 yards.

    2006-05-17 17:26:59
    433.   Prescott Pete
    My favorite quote from Daily News article ...

    "I want to be McPheed."

    2006-05-17 17:28:22
    434.   DodgerJoe
    Those are the only 2 kickers of note. They both went or will be going to UCLA.

    Actually, I think that they have another kicker at Arizona. I just looked it up, Nick Folk. I swear that's it.

    2006-05-17 17:29:41
    435.   Marty
    My brother thought penultimate meant super-ultimate. He used it constantly until one day I angrily said "it means next to last, you idiot".

    Then I apologized.

    2006-05-17 17:30:03
    436.   Jon Weisman
    That Stenhouse was to Stanford what Stanhouse was to the Dodgers.

    434 - Maybe it's that Sailer mentors a lot of kickers?

    2006-05-17 17:32:53
    437.   DodgerJoe
    436 - Sailor now runs a kicking school. That's maybe where you got that from.
    2006-05-17 17:35:01
    438.   Bob Timmermann
    I saw Chris Sailer play once when Notre Dame was playing at St. Anthony. Why Notre Dame scheduled somebody so far below them was a mystery, but it was the fastest game I ever covered. Notre Dame won 10-0 in 1 hour and 30 minutes.

    There was a lot of running in between the tackles.

    2006-05-17 17:36:55
    439.   Marty
    The Daily News habit of localising people is really annoying. Who cares what high school someone went to if it isn't part of the story?

    BTW: localising may be pronounced like Odalising.

    2006-05-17 17:41:28
    440.   Jon Weisman
    439 - This critique from the paper of "Sherman Oaks Notre Dame" and "North Hollywood Harvard-Westlake"
    2006-05-17 17:42:44
    441.   Andrew Shimmin
    Hope the topic isn't dead. . .

    The problem I have with all the speculation about what's wrong with Baez is that it seems to ignore the part (which is, or nearly is, a majority stake in small sample relief pitching) that chance/luck plays. There doesn't have to be anything wrong with Baez to account for the difference in his success rate last year vs. his success rate over a month and a half, this year. It's just as likely that he's pitched equally well with different results. He was pretty fortunate, last year, and has had crummy luck this year, as can be seen from his BABIP numbers that regfairfield and others have posted over the last couple weeks.

    So, it's not only possible, but likely that nothing has changed confidence-wise. It's a different outcome because of dumb luck.

    2006-05-17 17:45:41
    442.   Marty
    440 I knew there would be something we did like that pointed out as soon as I hit submit :)
    2006-05-17 17:47:51
    443.   Marty
    But I really meant localising well-known and semi-well known people who happened to go to some high school in their coverage area. Not identifying where in the county a high school is.
    2006-05-17 17:48:20
    444.   Steve
    441 -- Can we put a word in there other than "well" though? It's your post -- I'll defer.
    2006-05-17 17:49:31
    445.   Buffalo Jones
    So I guess my lame attempt at a joke at the expense of Carl Everett and his religious views way back in post 360 went completely ignored.

    And I guess the fact that I am bringing it up again makes the joke even more lame. Oh well.

    2006-05-17 17:54:28
    446.   underdog
    441 That's a really fair point, Andrew, actually. Luck isn't as statistically track-able but it does play a part in it. Just add that to the list of factors that affect a pitcher's results. I was thinking back to Gagne's record-breaking streak a few years ago (was it three already?) and luck certainly played a factor in that as well. I remember at least a couple of games he ultimately saved that were helped by diving stops on defense or hard hit balls right at somebody. Of course, his stuff in that streak was electrifying, too, and he probably would have saved most of those games without luck, but that helped stitch all those saves together. Many factors ultimately...

    Meanwhile, why does it seem unfair that the Giants get to play the Astros this week without having to face their best pitchers? (Okay, they did face Oswalt in that make up game last week, but still... {{kvetch}} )

    In even worse news, I have to do laundry now. Sigh.

    2006-05-17 17:55:13
    447.   Telemachos
    Speaking of penultimate, what about the hideous general mis-usage of "decimate"?
    2006-05-17 17:59:22
    448.   Blu2
    (414) I saw the movie last night which made famous the line "the usual suspects". That was Claude Raines in Casablanca, of course. Robert Osborne said that Casablanca had been selected as the number one movie of all time, or something like that...
    2006-05-17 18:26:51
    449.   Bob Timmermann
    Pretty much every newspaper uses the "local angle" approach.

    Even the New York Times does in certain sections. If the Yankees or Mets have a player from the NYC metro area, his locale will almost always get noted.

    The Daily News style is always "Blank High School of Blank City" unless the high school's name is a city. There are a few exceptions such as La Canada High (which is in La Canada Flintridge).

    Schools which aren't where you think they are:
    Artesia High, which is in Lakewood.
    San Gabriel High, which is in Alhambra.

    2006-05-17 18:29:55
    450.   Linkmeister
    443 Marty, it ain't just in your neighborhood. Shane Victorino is on quite a hot streak for the Phillies these days, so every day we get Phillies news in the sports section of our local newscasts. Invariably he's "Maui-born" Shane Victorino.

    I won't even get started on Michelle Wie, but then she still lives and goes to school here.

    Show/Hide Comments 451-500
    2006-05-17 18:33:32
    451.   Kayaker7
    447From Merriam-Webster:

    1 : to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
    2 : to exact a tax of 10 percent from
    3 a : to reduce drastically especially in number b : to destroy a large part of

    It's funny though. Nowadays, most people use the tertiary definition most often.

    2006-05-17 18:34:25
    452.   Bob Timmermann
    When the St. Louis Post-Dispatch had a story about Wayne Gretzky's wife, Janet Jones, being identified as a principal bettor in the Rick Tocchet betting ring, the paper referred to her as "St. Louis born Janet Jones."
    2006-05-17 18:39:37
    453.   Underbruin
    446 - Well, at least for pitchers, you could argue that luck indeed does have a statistical component, that being BABIP. If your BABIP is unusually low (Baez 2005) you're getting lucky, while if it's unusually high (Baez 2006) you're getting unlucky.

    Obviously there's more to luck than BABIP, but it's a start. :)

    2006-05-17 18:42:39
    454.   Andrew Shimmin
    Public Service Announcement to Pete Sessions (and anybody else): Do not use the line, 'Good fences make good neighbors,' until you've read the poem it's taken from. It's relatively short, and very simple to understand. No big words. Really--it's totally worth your while; for example, you won't make a fool of yourself on the floor of the House, if you do. At least, not in the way you did today.

    2006-05-17 18:43:35
    455.   Bob Timmermann
    If Oakland beats Seattle later (and Chicago holds on to its lead in the 9th), all 3 divisions in the AL will have two team ties for first.
    2006-05-17 18:45:18
    456.   Linkmeister
    454 A blogger I know (he runs Braves Journal as a second blog) is in Alabama, so he's familiar with Senator Sessions; Mac's name for the senator is "evil little troll."
    2006-05-17 18:47:40
    457.   Bob Timmermann

    The senator's name is Jeff though, not Pete.

    2006-05-17 18:48:16
    458.   Bob Timmermann
    Cleveland 86, Detroit 84. Cleveland up 3-2.
    2006-05-17 18:52:42
    459.   Andrew Shimmin
    457- Hell. There is a Pete Sessions, in the House. I was only watching with half an eye.
    2006-05-17 18:55:49
    460.   Bob Timmermann
    Surprisingly, Pete and Jeff aren't related unless you consider that they are both Republicans.
    2006-05-17 19:01:18
    461.   Andrew Shimmin
    456- Senator is latin for troll. I don't care much about his politics, but his illiteracy would be, in a more civilized country, a hanging offence.

    Outrage of the moment: In order to email a congressman (in error), or a senator (in righteous indignation), one must pretend to live in his district/state. This was probably more difficult before Google.

    2006-05-17 19:02:54
    462.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    Phys & Hud look alot alike, I'm wathcing them right now & said wow these two guys look alot alike, thats kind of weird no?
    2006-05-17 19:03:14
    463.   Andrew Shimmin
    Update- I really hope there isn't a 222 Happy St. in Mobile, Alabama. They're going to be so confused. . .
    2006-05-17 19:03:41
    464.   Linkmeister
    Pete's from Texas; Jeff's from Alabama. Both Republicans, both with the worst traits of that species (genus, phylum, whatever).
    2006-05-17 19:05:14
    465.   Linkmeister
    463 Oh that's priceless. I almost hope there is such an address.
    2006-05-17 19:06:13
    466.   Prescott Pete
    Padres 9, D-Backs 0 in the 1st, Padres still batting.
    2006-05-17 19:07:05
    467.   Bob Timmermann
    I don't think they check addresses that closely. I once wanted to get a Senate gallery pass and walked into the first Senate office that I could find.

    I signed John Warner's guestbook and said I was from Charlottesville.

    2006-05-17 19:08:35
    468.   Bob Timmermann
    The Padres had 13 guys bat in the first.

    The Dbacks stay in first place will be very brief.

    2006-05-17 19:25:06
    469.   55Dodgers
    .349 team OBP? 1st in NL? Depo is laughing out there somewhere.
    2006-05-17 19:32:36
    470.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    9-0 Padres, wow.
    2006-05-17 19:45:36
    471.   Vishal
    not only was alfredo amezaga in the starting lineup for florida, he played left field in place of josh willingham. what the heck.

    but he got two hits. i hate when bad decisions are rewarded.

    2006-05-17 19:52:18
    472.   JoeyP
    Do not use the line, 'Good fences make good neighbors,' until you've read the poem it's taken from.

    Perhaps Senator Sessions had not read that poem, but instead just simply meant that line by what he said.

    "Good fences make good neighbors" almost sounds like a proverb. Or something from an Aesop fable.

    I doubt Robert Frost is the origin of that particular thought. Therefore, citing his reference to it in a poem seems unnecessary.

    2006-05-17 19:53:17
    473.   Prescott Pete
    Matt Lienart and Deuce Lutui are at D-Backs game. D-Backs announcing team interviewed Lienart but not Deuce -- he is too big to fit in the booth.
    2006-05-17 19:58:23
    474.   Bob Timmermann
    The Ducks finally have a conference final opponent! It's Edmonton!

    Anaheim and Edmonton, two cities that have long been pitted against each other in sports. It should be a heated series.

    2006-05-17 19:59:33
    475.   Bob Timmermann

    Bad decisions? What about Bobby Cox leaving John Smoltz out there for 130 pitches?

    2006-05-17 20:02:19
    476.   Vishal
    [475] sure, that too. i don't have smoltz on my fantasy team though. :)
    2006-05-17 20:21:44
    477.   Bob Timmermann
    The Braves won tonight which means that only four teams in the NL now have losing records: Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Florida.

    Those last three are really doing their part to make everybody else look good.

    2006-05-17 20:43:10
    478.   Prescott Pete
    Yankees-like comeback alert: Padres 11, D-Backs 8.
    2006-05-17 20:44:34
    479.   Andrew Shimmin
    472- I think the line is inextricably bound to Frost, but I'm clearly biased. I see what you're saying, but isn't it bizarre to use a line instantly recognizeable as part of the work of a U.S. Poet Laureate, without meaning to reference it?

    Shakespeare wasn't the first to come up with the idea (which he clearly, in context, rejected) of killing all lawyers. If an MP said, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers," unironically, should he get the same pass?

    2006-05-17 20:46:06
    480.   Prescott Pete
    Wow -- 11 Padres 10 D-Backs.
    2006-05-17 20:47:27
    481.   Blu2
    Aybar has been damned as a bad fielder, whether it's true or not. OK, they can't deny his offense. Make him a centerfielder or first baseman if you must, but get him in the lineup somewhere...
    2006-05-17 20:48:07
    482.   Disabled List
    Too bad I'm jumping back into this thread a little late, but since when is Chris Sailer the most renowned football player to come out of Notre Dame HS? Justin Fargas broke every state rushing record when he played there.

    (I'm NDHS class of '93, myself)

    2006-05-17 20:52:15
    483.   Jon Weisman
    Two new posts up top.
    2006-05-17 20:54:25
    484.   Jon Weisman
    482 - It was all about kickers.
    2006-05-17 20:55:30
    485.   JoeyP
    but isn't it bizarre to use a line instantly recognizeable as part of the work of a U.S. Poet Laureate, without meaning to reference it?

    Well to me it wasnt instantly recognizeable from a Robert Frost poem. I definitely had heard the saying, but I had always thought it was something from ancient times. Maybe Sessions did also? I had no idea those exact words were orginated by Frost. Now if Sessions had made references to "A road less travelled"..then I'd understand.

    Do others on this site immediately think Frost when hearing that? I thought Aesop or ancient proverb, but maybe Frost really is famous for it?

    2006-05-17 21:01:14
    486.   3 tacos de asada por favor
    14-10 Padres, I love baseball.
    2006-05-17 21:12:52
    487.   Andrew Shimmin
    485- New posts mean I'm saved by the bell! Which can be taken as an allusion to the t.v. show, or boxing; I'm okay with either.

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