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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

25 Hits
2006-05-19 23:24
by Jon Weisman

1) The Dodgers had their most hits in more than 75 years, setting a team record for Los Angeles.

2) Aaron Sele almost duplicated his last home start (against Milwaukee). He was on the ropes early, gving up six hits before he got his seventh out - but recovered and cruised long enough to get the win, again.

3) Jose Cruz, Jr. made a fine throw from center field with one out in the second inning to hold a runner at third base and essentially enable Sele to turn things around.

4) Sele's offensive support in his three starts for the Dodgers is 9.7 runs per game.

5) At one point I wrote down on paper, "If you don't homer off Jeff Weaver, you've failed." Weaver had allowed a home run in every start he made this season since his first start, but managed to give up 11 hits in 4 2/3 innings without being taken deep.

6) Andre Ethier got two hits off Weaver, a single off Angel lefty specialist J.C. Romero and a homer off Brendan Donnelly on his way to a 5 for 5 night. Ethier found a clever way to preserve his perfect night - hitting a sacrifice fly in the eighth.

7) Nine Dodgers had multi-hit games Friday.

8) Ethier did miss a chance to become the second No. 16 to go 6 for 6 this decade for the Dodgers and the third Dodger to get six hits in a game in May in the 2000s.

9) In the last two games I have attended. Ethier has batted 10 times, and he has hit the ball solidly all 10.

10) Rafael Furcal was caught stealing in the first inning in a steal attempt that reminded me of Oscar Robles, but he made a great backhand play at shortstop in the fifth in support of Sele.

11) The caught stealing might have been the only thing to prevent the Dodgers from scoring in every inning. They settled for tallies in innings 2-8.

12) From innings 2-5, the Dodger scoring was 1111. In the sixth inning, the debate became if the Dodgers got to 11 runs, whether that would be counted as part of the picket fence.

13) "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson was the background music for the mid-game blooper reel. Explain.

14) Willy Aybar went 2 for 6 by the skin of his teeth. His double in the fifth inning, which broke the game open, barely got past first baseman Robb Quinlan. His infield single in the eighth was one of a few lazy plays by the increasingly checked-out Angels - Hector Carrasco failed to cover first.

15) Aybar can make good plays on defense, but he did not field with authority. The first hit of the game was a hard grounder that got past him - difficult, but a play you want him to make. He later backpedaled on a rather easy chopper. But that was the worst of it.

16) Russell Martin (3 for 6, plus a throw-out of Chone Figgins trying to steal) just looks fantastic.

17) Surpassing the inanity of the scoreboard note mentioning Martin as the 222nd Canadian in major-league history was this one for Sandy Alomar, Jr.: "Debuted his 'Sandy Alomar Steak Sauce' in 1998." The question isn't even whether this is the best thing you can say about Alomar. Is this the best thing you can say about his steak sauce - that it debuted?

18) Letting Aaron Sele bat with the bases loaded and one out in the bottom of the fifth inning, knowing he might only have an inning left? Nah.

19) Aaron, at least bunt or take the intentional strikeout in that situation. Don't hit into a double play.

20) Ethier played the entire game, and I mean played it, throwing out Mike Napoli at second base in the ninth.

21) The Dodger bench is so thin right now, they can't even replace players in a blowout adequately. J.D. Drew also played the entire game. (Kenny Lofton is expected back Saturday.)

22) Thanks to the Dodgers scoring at least 10 runs, those of us who were in attendance can go to Hooters to get 10 free chicken wings within 48 hours.

23) Do we have to?

24) Does the offer expire 48 hours after the game ends or 48 hours after the 10th run? These are big questions.

25) The Dodgers had their low point with a five-game losing streak that occured inside of three weeks ago but seems like further in the past. The Angels are having their low point now. And it's lower.

And all it means is we have a new game tomorrow.

* * *

Saturday's Game

Comments (436)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-05-20 00:11:45
1.   Bob Timmermann
Although the scoreboard reported that the Dodgers had 28 hits in 1917 and 1930, the Sporting News record book only records one of them.

6/23/1930 vs Pittsburgh.

The Dodgers won that day 19-6.

19 of the hits were given up Pittsburgh starter Heine Meine. They had 12 in a row over 2 innings. The last 10 batters in the sixth inning got hits with 2 outs and the final out was made on the bases. Then the first two Dodgers got hits in the seventh.

The 12 consecutive hits remain a major league record.

2006-05-20 00:28:36
2.   LAT
Tonight was one of the funnest games I've been to in a long time. I had such a good time I actually sucumbed to hitting a beach ball or two. It was a weak moment and I don't expect it to happen again unless the Dodgers put up another 16 runs. I actually started to feel bad for the Angels in the 6th. Of course I was really thinking "save a little for Sat and Sun."

True to new Dodger tradition, Weaver got booed pretty good on his way out but that could have been Angel fans expressing their displesure with their $8M man.

2006-05-20 00:29:12
3.   Linkmeister
Fedex those Hooters tix to Nate in Tucson. He's a college kid; they need free food.
2006-05-20 00:33:07
4.   LAT
Anyone see that Ichiro throw to nail Josh Barfield? That was a heck of a play.
2006-05-20 00:39:35
5.   LAT
3. Yeah but how many can he eat in 48 hours. I guess that depends on how much beer he has to wash them down with.
2006-05-20 00:55:31
6.   Ladderkite
Aybar - .381

Ethier - .317

Martin - .325

Aaahhhh the future feels good. At least for now.

2006-05-20 01:38:58
7.   ToyCannon
My niece told me it was the best game she's ever been to. Other then a shellacking we gave the Reds in another lifetime this was the best offensive night I've seen at DS. Plus it was much more enjoyable because Nomar/Drew/Ethier/Aybar are all on one Roto team.

Sweet team right now, a blend of speed, power, patience, youth, and veterans.

2006-05-20 02:32:20
8.   Langhorne
17) Reminds me of a few years back when the best they could do for Alex Cora was to point out that he was once the runner-up for the MVP in the Dominican winter league.

Even with the output tonight there weren't enough hits to cover all the good things the Dodgers did. Another fantastic game for Nomar. He has really won me over. I knew he could hit if he was healthy but his defense has been great. I love that they play War's Low Rider when he bats, both he and the band being from Whittier. Did I hear an MVP chant for Nomar tonight?

2006-05-20 03:00:59
9.   Underbruin
I was watching the rebroadcast of the game on FSN and heard something that really gave me pause.

During the, I believe it was the 3rd inning, the broadcast put up some clips from the pre-game warmup batting practice thrown by Eric Gagne (including a couple of nasty-looking curves). The worrisome quote, though, attributed to Grady Little and paraphrased here:

'Gagne looked so good today, are you sure we need to wait two weeks before I get him back?'

Obviously not verbatim, but the gist of it (as relayed by Vin Scully at least) still worries me. Granted, it could have been in joking fashion and I missed the humor, but considering that one of the few things I have consistently disliked about Grady Little's managerial tendencies both before his time here in LA, and since he's arrived, is his use of the bullpen.

2006-05-20 03:02:43
10.   Underbruin
9 *tack on "this is not something I like hearing" in front of that last period, please.
2006-05-20 07:00:30
11.   Felton

What pitch is Sele throwing? The index finger is on the top of the ball in the middle and the next finger is on a seam. Thanks

2006-05-20 07:07:47
12.   tjshere
Big-time offense is a pretty good way to cure the bullpen problem. Let's just score 16 runs per game from now on and not worry about those pesky personnel moves to shore up the pitching.
2006-05-20 07:22:10
13.   3upn3down
I'm watching the game this morning on my DVR. Watching all of the dodger/clipper games from the Central Time Zone this week takes it toll.

Anyhow, I just finished the 6th inning which was a blast to watch. Two great observations:

1. Vin was trying to draw an alanology to JC Romero's nightmare of an inning and compared it to a time when he sat down on a sharp piece of "medical equipment" protruding from a trainers bag in the dugout that required 4 stitches.

2. At the end of the 6th, you could tell that Vin was trying to give his usual end on the inning summary "9 runs on 9 hits..." but you could tell from the brief pause, that he tried to tally up the hits and runs, and just said, ahh screw it, 13 runs minus 4 is 9, "so the dodgers score 9 runs..." To open the top of the 7th, when the telecast picked back up, Vin opens with, "Well the dodgers have broken the game wide open - 9 runs on 9 hits by 9 different players..."

The dodgers have droppen the middle game of both of their last 2 3 game series.

Here to hoping we can keep it going.

2006-05-20 07:26:38
14.   Blu2
Ethier and Martin won't be going back to Las Vegas anytime soon. Aybar is another story; while he is proving that he is ready as a major league hitter, he is also demonstrating that management is not going to be happy with him at third base. OK, think he'll hit well enough to make it as a firstbaseman? Or a centerfielder? Does he have any outfield experience? If Nomar continues hitting, he's going to want 10 to 12 million to stay next year. Lofton will definitely go. (I hope.) Repko will be back soon and he might have some say on who plays centerfield. Loney won't hit well enough to make it at first but he has speed and a strong arm, can he play center? And then there's Guzman...Are these nice problems to have or what?
2006-05-20 07:33:14
15.   3upn3down
Batting Avg. improvements from last night's game:

Furcal - up 11pts to .238
Cruz Jr - up 5pts to .241
Nomar - up 14pts to .351
Drew - up 6pts to .296
Kent - up 10pts to .243
Aybar - down (19pts) to .381
Ethier - up 95pts to .317
Martin - up 31pts to .325
Saenz - up 21pts to .318

14. I'm not ready to start thinking about next year. Especially when there is so much to focus on for this season.

2006-05-20 07:36:49
16.   Gen3Blue
I'm hoping that center field won't be a problem in a couple of years(Kemp) although I think some scouts see him moving to l/r after he fills out.
Also, didn't realize Billingsley is now the heaviest pitcher at LV. Being shorter than most righties, will he have to watch the wieght as he is only 21?
2006-05-20 08:04:34
17.   Steve
Booing Jeff Weaver?


2006-05-20 08:07:11
18.   Bob Timmermann
I think Sele is throwing a change up in that photo. Taking your finger off the ball is a common way to change speeds without altering your delivery.
2006-05-20 08:17:03
19.   Marty
Heine Meine. What a great name.
2006-05-20 08:41:03
20.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
18 - That was my guess, too. Something along the lines of a circle change.
2006-05-20 08:41:24
21.   Bob Timmermann
Henry William Meine, from St. Louis.

But sources list his nickname as "The Count of Luxemburg (sic)".

2006-05-20 08:59:23
22.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
In 42 games, the Dodgers have scored 221 runs - good for second in the NL.
If they keep up this pace for the season, their 852 runs will break the previous LA-only record of 842, set in 1962. (And that '62 mark came in 165 games.)
The post-1900 franchise record is 955 runs, set in 1953. This was most likely the best team in the "Boys of Summer" era.
In 1894, the Brooklyns scored 1,021 runs - in only 131 games.
2006-05-20 09:01:55
23.   Marty
Almost as good as the Count of Montefusco.
2006-05-20 09:04:11
24.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Seeing that Meine gave up 19 hits that day, perhaps his nickname should've been "Behind in the Count."
2006-05-20 09:14:31
25.   ToyCannon
To soon to say that Aybar needs work at 3rd. I will agree that he has looked tentative but it may have something to do with the new Dodger background. He doesn't seem to be getting a good read on the balls. He has quite an extensive history at 3b in the minor leagues and I've never seen a scout writeup that said he couldn't play a quality major league 3b, they were only worried about the power. Course he looks bigger then he used to and maybe that is affecting his fielding. Given the number of balls hit to a 3b if he can give me a 280/370/450 line I'd be more then happy to camp him at 3b unless he proves to be Huff awful.
2006-05-20 09:23:08
26.   Blu2
(25) I think he;ll give you those numbers but I'm not so sure Grady will let him play with any errors at all. Of course that's all moot for the next two seasons while Mueller is here with Grady holding him up on one side and Flanders helping him on the other. Nothing really wrong with that if Mueller hits like he did earlier this year...
2006-05-20 09:26:46
27.   underdog
3 People go to Hooters for the food?

Btw, this was probably mentioned somewhere last night and I missed it, but Greg Miller pitched 2 scoreless innings in relief for Las Vegas last night (he did also walk 3 and gave up 2 hits, but also struck out 2.) Billingsley goes tonight, again against the Springfield, I mean Albuquerque Isotopes.

2006-05-20 09:28:36
28.   underdog
Btw, re Gagne and Little, it really seemed to me that Little's comments afterwards were more of the "I'm drooling and my bullpen sucks" gist, like a kid who has to wait til he's all better to go outside after being sick even though he's not 100% yet. I think he understands perfectly well why Gagne needs rehab assignment first.
2006-05-20 09:41:41
29.   ceviche taste oh so good
"1) The Dodgers had their most hits in more than 75 years, setting a team record for Los Angeles."

WHAT?the records were set in '74 & '02 no?, if this was discussed already my apologies.

2006-05-20 09:50:48
30.   Bob Timmermann
Everybody scored a lot of runs in 1894.

The average team scored 7.36 runs per game that season.

2006-05-20 09:55:12
31.   Blu2
Jon: And all it means is we have a new game tomorrow.

Or as Brain would say:"Same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world".

2006-05-20 10:05:56
32.   ceviche taste oh so good
I heard the score card was gonna be archived, Iron Mountain is the company that archives all things Dodgers, I worked for them for 6 years.
2006-05-20 10:14:08
33.   ceviche taste oh so good

that's what I was thinking.

2006-05-20 10:19:18
34.   ceviche taste oh so good
I remember Kevin Gregg being a reliever?
2006-05-20 10:52:17
35.   Vishal
[34] bartolo colon is on the DL, so gregg is just filling in.
2006-05-20 11:11:03
36.   Linkmeister
27 College kids go anywhere for food, at least in my memory. We had repeated 10pm four-mile trips to Bob's Big Boy for strawberry pie when I went to UofA.

Your mileage may vary.

2006-05-20 11:13:31
37.   D4P
Everybody scored a lot of runs in 1894.

Was that before the defense starting wearing gloves?

2006-05-20 11:14:45
38.   Greg S
These are wonderful problems to have. I keep making the point that this team is DEEP. Think about it... we have a real problem of how to fit in:

Cruz, Jr (assuming Ethier stays in left)

It seems that none of those guys deserves to sit or stay in the minors but none of them have a place on this team (at least when it is healthy which it essentially is or could be in two weeks).

Tha's a LOT of extra players with a LOT of talent.
Tell me why I'm being overly optimisic about the future and the present.

2006-05-20 11:15:08
39.   Bob Timmermann
Players were wearing gloves of a kind in 1894, but nothing like today. It was the second year that the pitching distance had been moved back to its present one and the pitchers weren't adjusting well.
2006-05-20 11:27:55

reading your post made me wonder when the first curve ball was thrown, I remember reading (as a kid) in the public librabry that the first curve ball was thrown around the 1890's no? I tride searching for the answer on the web with no luck.

2006-05-20 11:32:10
41.   Blu2
I'd trade Cruz and Ledee in a heartbeat, and all I'd want in return is open spots on the roster. There is room on my team for Repko, starting or being available as a spare. Loney hasn't shown me enough to get first base. I have to wonder if centerfield might be a better fit for him; if Aybar doesn't settle down in the field, first is an option for him, and Guzman is snapping in for that spot, too. And remember we're going to have to replace Kent in two years if not sooner...
2006-05-20 11:32:12
42.   overkill94
11, 18 Looks to me like he's throwing a cutter, at least that's how I used to throw it. By recessing a finger it gives the ball some slider action toward or away from the hitter, depending on which finger you recess (middle or index). In this case (index finger back), the ball would move away from a right-hander.
2006-05-20 11:33:57
43.   D4P

That's "liberry" to you.

2006-05-20 11:37:11


2006-05-20 11:47:30
45.   overkill94
Anybody else think the immortal Mike Davis looks a lot like Alfonso Ribeiro?
2006-05-20 11:48:06
46.   Bob Timmermann
Read about the life of Candy Cummings, the man credited with throwing the first curve ball (he probably didn't, but he certainly was the first guy well known for it.)

2006-05-20 11:50:49
47.   D4P
Is there a more appropriate porn name for a female "actress" than Candy Cummings?
2006-05-20 11:51:59
48.   Vaudeville Villain
Anyone read Bill Plaschke's thing this morning? It simultaneously extolls the virtues of Erstad while bringing up his injury and the fact that he's hitting .230. It's unintentionally hilarious.
2006-05-20 11:54:56

your the best Bob thank you very very much.

2006-05-20 11:55:20
50.   confucius
48. I read it. He is practically praising him for not being able to hit. That's Plaschke. I wonder how much Arte is paying him to write those articles?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-05-20 11:56:53
51.   confucius
47. I can think of one, but I can't post it. ;)
2006-05-20 11:57:51
52.   Bob Timmermann
Even when the Angels play one of their worst games EVER, Plaschke still thinks the Angels are a bunch of really nice guys. They're gamers. They're tough. They're gritty.
2006-05-20 12:06:19
53.   be2ween
52 "They're gamers. They're tough. They're gritty."
That sounds very 'Rex Hudler'.
I watched the game last night on KCOP, and tried to listen to the radio (and Vin) along w/ it, but the radio was about 5 seconds ahead of the tv. :(
2006-05-20 12:06:44

"Cummings pitched every inning for the Mutuals that year" reading this blew my mind. WOW!

2006-05-20 12:11:49
Last time I saw Gregg pitch, he was tagged. Tomko pitching to Vlad will be interesting.
2006-05-20 12:20:50
56.   Bob Timmermann

If you're standing about 45 feet away from the batter and throwing about 50-60 mph, it's not like your arm is being strained.

It wasn't until the 1880s before teams started getting a second pitcher on their squads. There was very limited substitution in baseball until the 1890s. Baseball was like soccer was until the 1970s. If you started, you played the whole game.

2006-05-20 12:23:42
57.   Vishal
pedro was the daddy of the yankees today. :)
2006-05-20 12:25:42
58.   D4P
Why did pitchers only throw 50-60 mph back then?
2006-05-20 12:26:45
Baseball Tonight, The season premiere features the chicago white sox. Icluded:the ring ceremony Honoring their world series triump.
2006-05-20 12:32:30
45 feet, 50-60 MPH sounds like the guy had week arm, I know he was 120 pounds, I don't think they mentioned how tall he was.
2006-05-20 12:33:35
61.   Bob Timmermann
They were throwing underhand or submarine most of the time. Overhand pitching wasn't allowed at the time.

Also if you're standing so close, you don't get enough distance for the ball to accelerate to top speed.

Besides, early baseball wanted the ball put in play and people running around.

2006-05-20 12:34:34
62.   MartinBillingsley31
My first impression of last night's lineup was that we are going to score a lot of runs.
No lofton.
No replacement guy like martinez giving a regular like kent the day off.
The sad thing is that the folks on are praising ned for assembling a great offense even tho only furcal, nomar, and ethier are ned pickups that were in the lineup last night, and the folks on are very hesitant about playing the prospects because they don't want them rushed, and they hate cruz playing over lofton.
So half of that lineup last night were composed of guys they have some sort of problem with, but yet ned is a stud for assembling a great offensive team.

Face it if the dodgers end up being sucessfull this year its going to be because of the prospects and the depodesta acquitions, and big bad ned is going to get the credit.

By the way, i got banned again from for being too "moneyballish".

2006-05-20 12:34:38
63.   gpellamjr
60 It's a good thing you "bleed blue".

I'm a little irritated that Grady didn't post the same lineup as yesterday.

2006-05-20 12:36:48
64.   gpellamjr
62 I thought the same thing. Before the game, I posted on insidethedodgers saying that I thought that lineup had the best run-producing capacity. What did you say on to get kicked off? Be honest.
2006-05-20 12:41:45

sarcastic alert.

2006-05-20 12:43:33
66.   Steve
The Cubs haven't scored. I'm stunned. Shutting down that vaunted offense is some kind of miracle.
2006-05-20 12:44:19
67.   gpellamjr
66 Sarcastic alert?
2006-05-20 12:44:44
68.   MartinBillingsley31

What did you say on to get kicked off? Be honest.

I'm not sure, but no foul language.
I am just way too "moneyballish" for them to handle i guess, and i think they have some narcs there.
I did point out bluntly that most people there are "casual fans" that don't understand stats and look at meaningless team dependant stats.
They hate cruz a lot because to them he only walks and never does anything else.
And they love lofton because he makes things happen.
I did respond with lofton sure does make things happen he makes the overall team power decline when he's starting just about everyday.

2006-05-20 12:46:28
"By the way, i got banned again from for being too "moneyballish".

you don't like the stolen base, bunt & so fourth

2006-05-20 12:47:14
70.   Steve
What a tragedy.
2006-05-20 12:47:33
71.   gpellamjr
68 I like that "he only walks and never does anything else". I'm stoked that this team has the best OBP in the NL. The problem is that Lofton has been involved in some late inning heroics, so it seems that he has "intangibles"... ugh.
2006-05-20 12:48:18
72.   natepurcell
what is "moneyballish" type behavior?
2006-05-20 12:49:44
73.   natepurcell
If you don't like Lofton, you don't like baseball!


2006-05-20 12:50:48
74.   Steve
what is "moneyballish" type behavior?

Not sure, but I think it has something to do with complete sentences and not booing Mike Piazza.

2006-05-20 12:52:37
75.   natepurcell
Callis talks about what he thinks the dodgers will do in his most recent ASK BA:

As for the Dodgers, scouting director Logan White isn't beholden to high school players. It may look that way, because he drafts a lot of them, but that's more the result of the industry increasingly pursuing college talent. With more and more teams going in that direction, the top high school players don't go as high as they should.

The frontrunners for Los Angeles' No. 7 choice are a pair of high school pitchers, Texas lefthander Clayton Kershaw and Virginia righthander Jeremy Jeffress. But if the University of Houston righthander Brad Lincoln were to fall to the Dodgers, they'd snap him up. As for picks No. 26 and No. 31, Los Angeles will take the highest players on its draft board after seeing how the top of the draft unfolds.

2006-05-20 12:55:35
76.   MartinBillingsley31

what is "moneyballish" type behavior?

I don't know but they keep labeling me a "moneyballer".
I thought moneyball was for low payroll type of teams.
I just believe that the ability to get on base(obp) and hit for power(slg) is the way to score runs, and vice versa for pitching, the pitchings ability to shut down the teams ability to get on base and hit for power is the best combo.

2006-05-20 12:56:17
77.   D4P
Not to mention capitalizing only the first letters of sentences and proper names, and using no more than one exclamation point per post.
2006-05-20 12:57:55
78.   Steve
76 -- They beheaded Charles I for such things.
2006-05-20 12:59:46
79.   MartinBillingsley31

you don't like the stolen base, bunt & so fourth

No, if i remember correct, in the beginning of last night's game, grady sent the runner furcal who got thrown out, and didn't grady try an unsucessfull hit and run play?

The people at love the stolen base, bunt, hit and run.
They love the scrappy lofton.

2006-05-20 13:00:37
80.   natepurcell

If you want to get technical, "Moneyball" is probably about exploiting market inefficiencies to gain an economic edge on the playing field.

Reading your posts the last year or two, you are all about power power power. Last time I checked, power was in extremely high demand around the league.

So I don't look at you and scream to myself, "Moneyballer! Moneyballer! Burn the Moneyballer!"

2006-05-20 13:08:22
81.   MartinBillingsley31

Reading your posts the last year or two, you are all about power power power.

I do value obp a lot.
I believe obp is the #1 source for runs scored.
I believe power(slg) is the #2 source for runs scored.
I don't value speed and defense unless the guy who has obp and slg also has speed and defense, meaning i can't stand guys who only have defense like izturis, and i can't stand guys who have only speed and a decent obp like lofton especially since he plays an outfield position.

I've never brought up or complained about the dodgers obp because i knew even before the season started that the overall team obp was going to be fine.

2006-05-20 13:09:18

Izzy playing SS is out of the questin for you then.

2006-05-20 13:10:45
83.   natepurcell

Izzy starting for the Dodgers anywhere is out of the question for me.

2006-05-20 13:10:55
84.   MartinBillingsley31

Izzy playing SS is out of the questin for you then.

Yes, unless it is for a short time to raise his trade value, if that is possible.

2006-05-20 13:12:51
85.   natepurcell
Wow, Tomko throws a wierd changeup. It looks like Gagne's change.
2006-05-20 13:14:20
86.   Marty
I hope Grady was watching that.
2006-05-20 13:14:53
Aybar showing of his arm. Did he make that play with his eyes closed. ; )
2006-05-20 13:17:10
88.   MartinBillingsley31

So I don't look at you and scream to myself, "Moneyballer! Moneyballer! Burn the Moneyballer!"

So what kind of label would you use for me considering my philosophy is this?
I just believe that the ability to get on base(obp) and hit for power(slg) is the way to score runs, and vice versa for pitching, the pitchings ability to shut down the teams ability to get on base and hit for power is the best combo.

Would you call that sabermetrics minded?
Or no?

2006-05-20 13:18:15
89.   underdog
I hope that moronic fan was shown the exit sign. Sheesh.

And --whew-- thank God Ethier caught up to that one. Guerrero's the one guy that scares the devil out of me in the Angels line up. Uh. That came out weird.

2006-05-20 13:19:47
90.   natepurcell
Tomko made a great pitch too. darn.
2006-05-20 13:21:38
91.   Marty
I think bad Tomko found his way to Dodger Stadium.
2006-05-20 13:21:50
92.   natepurcell
another good pitch by tomko (im serious, it was low and outside on the black).
2006-05-20 13:22:04
93.   ToyCannon
Anyone notice how Jose Valentine after having an April that was barely better then A Perez is posting an OPS > 1100 in May?
2006-05-20 13:22:30
94.   regfairfield
Wow, if McPherson stops striking out half the time, he's going to be really good. That was a really good pitch that it looked like he barely got.
2006-05-20 13:22:50
95.   underdog
Uhmmm... Tomko's looking like the "Bad Tomko" so far today. He's not fooling anyone. Needs to mix up the pitches and speeds a little bit more. Plus, the Angels may just plain be mad about yesterday.
2006-05-20 13:23:34
96.   regfairfield
Of course, this is probably just Tomko's luck regressing to the mean.
2006-05-20 13:23:51
97.   underdog
94 And I didn't see the pitch McPherson hit, so maybe that was just a good piece of hitting...
And hey, if our offense continues as it has, no worries, right?
2006-05-20 13:24:39
98.   ToyCannon
Cool, the Aybar brothers are both starting today. If Eric had given Willie some of his speed and defense and Willie had given Eric some of his patience and power you'd have one heck of a player.
2006-05-20 13:24:55
99.   JoeyP
Tomko pitching day games at Dodger Stadium...Nothing to see here.
2006-05-20 13:28:03
100.   caseybarker
I've heard that batters got to ask for the location of the pitch in the 1870's.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-05-20 13:28:42
Let's see if Tomko starts throwing his new found off-speed pitch more this coming inning.
2006-05-20 13:29:06
102.   JoeyP
When I played baseball, I used to always take a peak at where the catcher was setting up. I'm not sure why more hitters dont do that. Are they afraid of getting hit?
2006-05-20 13:31:01
It looked like Guerrero lost that ball.
2006-05-20 13:31:55
104.   mikethinksblue
ugh, get Barry off the screen
2006-05-20 13:32:06
105.   caseybarker
Fox is ridiculous.
2006-05-20 13:32:23
106.   gpellamjr
haha Steiner: "A fly ball... plenty deep... it's off the wall" Plenty deep for what, Steiner?
2006-05-20 13:32:24
there it is! Bonds*
2006-05-20 13:32:39
108.   regfairfield
Dangit Fox, I don't care about Barry, let me watch my game.
2006-05-20 13:32:57
109.   gpellamjr
105 I agree completely-- but why in this instance?
2006-05-20 13:33:01
110.   underdog
Should we trade Izturis for the other Aybar, so all brothers can be reunited?

Why does this game seem... not destined to be a pitcher's duel?

2006-05-20 13:34:10
111.   trainwreck
They build up Bonds HR forever and they cover it for 5 seconds.
2006-05-20 13:34:31
112.   mikethinksblue
I just hope he hits two today, so they can't celebrate at Phone Company Park
2006-05-20 13:34:49
113.   trainwreck
Why did you waste my time ESPN!?
2006-05-20 13:35:03
114.   underdog
Oooh. Congrats to Bonds! I couldn't be happier... If he hits one more...


...because then we can stop freaking hearing about it as much. (Er, maybe.)

Bonds kissed the Oakland crowd when he stepped back out of the dugout. Hah. I'm sure they kissed him back.

2006-05-20 13:35:17
115.   ToyCannon
Peaking will result in a high hard one. If you were peaking it couldn't have been above HS ball without suffering any consequences.
2006-05-20 13:35:40

I got in a fight with a guy for doing what you did. (sunday league) cheater!

2006-05-20 13:37:21
117.   caseybarker

Blanket statement, with added evidence today.

2006-05-20 13:37:31
118.   ToyCannon
I would rather have Erick Aybar then Izzy. He should flash the same excellent defense but with more speed and more gap power. Of course the way Angel prospects have sputtered he may be nothing better then Neifi Perez.
2006-05-20 13:38:28
119.   JoeyP
Willy was a little too agressive that at bat. He should have taken his walk. Maybe he wants to have a great game bc his brother is on the other side.
2006-05-20 13:39:34
120.   D4P
The amazing thing about Proven 100-RBI Guys like Jeff Kent is that they have an uncanny ability to come up to the plate with runners on base.
2006-05-20 13:39:54
Pedro Martinez sporting jerry curls (fox I live for this promo)
2006-05-20 13:39:59
122.   regfairfield
118 I'd say it's Angels: 1 Dodgers: 0 right now in terms of prospects (Ervin Santana being the lone point). I'll get excited when our kids can keep it up for a couple months.
2006-05-20 13:41:17
123.   natepurcell

because they bat 3-5.

2006-05-20 13:41:35
124.   JoeyP
Peaking will result in a high hard one. If you were peaking it couldn't have been above HS ball without suffering any consequences

Thats true. But I'm not sure why people are afraid of getting hit. More specifically, why they dont have confidence that they can get out of the way of a pitch even if a pitcher was throwing at them.

2006-05-20 13:42:45
125.   Bob Timmermann
A Jose Molina double could invoke the Grabowksi Principle.
2006-05-20 13:42:47
126.   natepurcell
why they dont have confidence that they can get out of the way of a pitch even if a pitcher was throwing at them.

did you watch the russ springer-bonds incident? lol

2006-05-20 13:43:28
127.   underdog
Ad Voice Over: "We secretly swapped their regular Brett Tomko with this Lance Carter. Now, let's see if they notice the difference."
2006-05-20 13:43:52
128.   Bob Timmermann
Kevin Gregg is a switch hitter.

Handy to know for an AL pitcher.

2006-05-20 13:44:27
129.   D4P
because they bat 3-5

My innocence is ruined. I thought RBIs were a skill...

2006-05-20 13:44:33
130.   underdog
That was a nice catch by that guy in Oakland on Bonds' home run by the way, to snag it with his glove.
2006-05-20 13:45:22
131.   JoeyP
Bonds has body arm on. He doesnt care if he gets hit by a Russ Springer pitch. I'm saying if he really wanted to get out of the way of that pitch, he could have. He just didnt want to, bc the embarrassment of falling on his butt from a Russ Springer pitch is worse than actually getting hit by the pitch.
2006-05-20 13:46:47
132.   natepurcell

he got out of the way 3 times before he got it. What I'm trying to say is, if the pitcher really wanted to hit you, he is going to hit you...eventually.

2006-05-20 13:47:48
Thats true. But I'm not sure why people are afraid of getting hit. More specifically, why they dont have confidence that they can get out of the way of a pitch even if a pitcher was throwing at them.

sometimes words come right after the high heat resulting in...

2006-05-20 13:50:56
134.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers are never going to get to 25 hits at this pace.
2006-05-20 13:52:17

this is baseball you never know.

2006-05-20 13:55:49
136.   mikethinksblue
well, Bad Tomko and Good Gregg showed up today. I'm going to go work on the vespa, which is just slightly less frustrating
2006-05-20 13:58:24
137.   Vishal
halsey wins round 2. :)
2006-05-20 13:58:33
138.   sanchez101
I dont hate Bonds, I hate FOX and espn for cutting to him every time he hobbles up to the plate. This is really rediculas, I want to watch the Dodger game. Bonds could hit another 200 homeruns and I couldnt care less. Im convinced that the people running these networks arent really sports fans.
2006-05-20 13:59:37
139.   gpellamjr
135 Good point!

Steiner again: "It's plenty deep... it's... off the wall for a double!"

2006-05-20 13:59:45
140.   Vishal
[138] i like watching him strike out.
2006-05-20 13:59:59
141.   D4P
Im convinced that the people running these networks arent really sports fans.

People who run networks are money fans.

2006-05-20 14:01:43
142.   Vaudeville Villain
Ha, Mike Krukow's commentary is top-notch.

"You hit home runs by taking good swings."

Thanks, Mike.

2006-05-20 14:02:44
143.   sanchez101
nice job, Raffy
2006-05-20 14:03:09
you don't like the bunt martinbillingsley31 :)
2006-05-20 14:04:21
145.   LAT
Wow Nice fight in Chi. I guess the Cubs will be without the services of Michael Barrett for a while. It was a really cheap shot but it doesn't count cause it was on AJ Pierzynski.
2006-05-20 14:04:39
146.   JoeyP
Fun with bunting.
For a guy that isnt a total banjo hitter (Furcal hit 15HR's last year), he sure does try it alot.
2006-05-20 14:05:30
147.   MartinBillingsley31
Hey nate.

Is that you over there on

If it is, be carefull not to be too "moneyballish" you might get banned, because billynono and joe bfstplk among a few others are narcs.

2006-05-20 14:05:34
148.   Vaudeville Villain
I don't think people care about bunting if you're trying to get a base hit, but bunting to waste an out is pretty stupid.

Bunting if you're Rafael Furcal is probably a very good idea, considering how horrible his hitting has been.

2006-05-20 14:07:14
149.   Vaudeville Villain
And K-Lo bunting with a 3-1 count is, let's be frank, horrifically stupid.

Steve Lyons called it "surprising".

2006-05-20 14:08:01
150.   JoeyP
I'd love to see the numbers of the offense as a hole when Cruz hits #2, compared to when Lofton hits #2.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-05-20 14:09:58
151.   MartinBillingsley31
I'd love to see the numbers of the offense as a hole when Cruz hits #2, compared to when Lofton hits #2.

I would too.

2006-05-20 14:10:30
152.   natepurcell
f it is, be carefull not to be too "moneyballish" you might get banned, because billynono and joe bfstplk among a few others are narcs.

what would i get banned for?

2006-05-20 14:10:33
153.   D4P
This should help.

2006-05-20 14:13:36
154.   sanchez101
Tomko's just setting up the triple-play
2006-05-20 14:13:48
Kent showing his age there! ;)
2006-05-20 14:14:36
156.   MartinBillingsley31
""""what would i get banned for?""""""

Simply disagreeing with the "anti-moneyball" narcs.
Depodesta is know as the devil over there, if you seem to have anywhere near the philosophy of depodesta, the narcs will turn you in to the moderators.
They did it to me.

2006-05-20 14:15:32
157.   Vaudeville Villain
I love the description of them being narcs. It sounds like you're selling crack or something.

"I've got this really good stuff, man. This new defensive metric, man. It's mind-blowing. I'll give you a good price, seriously. Oh man, mods, let's bone out, MODS!"

2006-05-20 14:16:56

well Molina isn't the swiftes of foot.

2006-05-20 14:17:33
159.   JoeyP
157. In a funny way its true. Its like they cant be infected with intelligence over there, it would mess up their community as a whole.
2006-05-20 14:18:36
160.   natepurcell


2006-05-20 14:18:37
161.   MartinBillingsley31

In a funny way its true. Its like they cant be infected with intelligence over there, it would mess up their community as a whole.

Bingo, i couldn't have said it better.

2006-05-20 14:19:13
162.   LAT
I will be very suprised if Barbaro doesn't win the Preakness easily. Only a bad trip can stop him but with such a small field that is unlikly. Brother Derrick will have a better trip then the Derby and they will finish 1-2. I would use those two on top with everyone else on the bottom of the trifecta.
2006-05-20 14:21:07
163.   JoeyP
The Angels can have fun with bunting too.
2006-05-20 14:22:43
164.   JoeyP
If Kennedy walks here, I'd pull Tomko. You cant let him face Vlad with the bases loaded. He doesnt have much today.
2006-05-20 14:22:43
165.   Vaudeville Villain
Tomko regressing to the mean before our eyes.

The mean is mean.

2006-05-20 14:23:33
166.   JoeyP
164...OOoops what was a I thinking? The Angels never walk.
I should say if Kennedy lazily flys out on the 2nd pitch, then leave Tomko in.
2006-05-20 14:27:36
167.   Gen3Blue
162 If you play all those combos it becomes work and you might as well do the market. Take a chance-who would the best bottom be?
2006-05-20 14:28:38
168.   Uncle Miltie
Should we trade Izturis for the other Aybar, so all brothers can be reunited?
No. Erick is a much different player than his brother Wilber. He doesn't walk much, so his OBP is average dependent. He plays SS, but might end up moving to CF. He's fast, but also a very poor baserunner. Erick is the more talented brother, but I think Wilber will have a better career.
2006-05-20 14:29:37
169.   Uncle Miltie
Just another walk for Aybar...
2006-05-20 14:29:38
170.   JoeyP
2006-05-20 14:29:55
171.   D4P
Look what Aybar just did...
2006-05-20 14:32:34
172.   JoeyP
Our Aybar looks like he spent the entire winter in the weight room. At least, I hope thats what he did.
2006-05-20 14:38:40
173.   natepurcell
Furkel has a scud launcher instead of a human right arm.
2006-05-20 14:39:27
174.   JoeyP
Vlad has an OPS of .897.
Kennedy has an OPS of .740.
Everyone else in the Angels lineup is around .700 or below.
They really are bad. Are the Washington Nationals even that bad?
2006-05-20 14:40:16
175.   sanchez101
168. the only reason eric aybar would move off of SS is if the Angels have a better option, he's considered a very good defensive player. Aybar would be a slight dissapointment if he had the career Izturis is having. That would be an excellent trade for the Dodgers, the Angels would rather trade Macier for Willy.
2006-05-20 14:41:38
176.   Uncle Miltie
I think the guy who caught Bonds' home run ball might have gone to the same high school as my roommate. I'll have to ask him when he gets back.
2006-05-20 14:41:39
177.   sanchez101
172. I dont think Aybar looks any different than last year, but dont let that stop any silly steroid accusations.
2006-05-20 14:44:43
178.   Uncle Miltie
175- we don't need him though. And the Angels do have Brandon Wood. They could keep Aybar at SS and move Wood to 3B, but his defense is good enough at SS and his power potential is huge. I would only do that trade if we could get more for Erick in another trade than we could for Izturis.
2006-05-20 14:45:21
179.   Vaudeville Villain

I prefer Willy Aybar to Erick. Not too many hitters have the patience Aybar displays.

2006-05-20 14:49:19
180.   Sam DC
Hey all -- wow, fun checking the score this morning.

Am I correct that the Clippers game 7 isn't till Monday -- they skip fri-sun??

And passed on just for visual stunningness w/o a real point, the bottom of the 11th from Shea today, one run game, courtesy of gameday:

"Bottom 11TH B:1 S:3 O:1
David Wright strikes out swinging.

Bottom 11TH B:3 S:3 O:2
Cliff Floyd strikes out swinging.

Bottom 11TH B:2 S:3 O:3
Xavier Nady strikes out swinging."

2006-05-20 14:50:57
181.   JoeyP
Do you think Stoneman is regretting not signing Paul Konerko now?
2006-05-20 14:53:27
182.   sanchez101
179. i agree to an extent, I love Aybar's apporoach at the plate. I would much rather have him batting 2nd than Lofton. Eric Aybar's offense probably somewhat overrated, just like all Angel prospects. I dont think he's all that much better than Chin-Lung Hu, if at all, but im in the minority there.
2006-05-20 14:55:10
183.   JoeyP
Jose Molina gets himself out.
2006-05-20 14:59:46
184.   das411
180 - That's the difference between a chump mouthy closer and a Hall of Fame closer.

Did anybody else see, Michael Barrett living the dream today?

2006-05-20 14:59:49
185.   Buffalo Jones
Is this a replay of the 4th inning? If Figgins singles I am going to be a little scared.
2006-05-20 15:02:01
186.   JoeyP
Chone Figgins must be taking hitting lessons from Vlad.
2006-05-20 15:02:34
187.   sanchez101
the angels are not making the most of their opportunities to score, hopefully the Dodgers can make them regret it
2006-05-20 15:03:40
188.   JoeyP
Tomko through him like 11 pitches, maybe 2 of them were strikes, and Figgins was just up there hacking. It was beautiful to watch if you're a Dodger fan. If you're an Angel fan, well ask scareduck...
2006-05-20 15:04:09
189.   JoeyP
2006-05-20 15:10:25
190.   natepurcell
2006-05-20 15:10:40
191.   Vaudeville Villain
2006-05-20 15:10:48
192.   natepurcell
The kids! rejoice rejoice in walkin' willy.
2006-05-20 15:10:53
193.   sanchez101
"WI" "L" "BER"!!!!!!
2006-05-20 15:10:58
194.   Marty
Wow, Willie just golfed that out. That may have been the toughest pitch of the AB to hit.
2006-05-20 15:11:34
195.   MartinBillingsley31
2006-05-20 15:11:52
196.   Uncle Miltie
I was just thinking, "I think Wilber might hit it out right now".

Go Wilber!

2006-05-20 15:12:04
197.   JoeyP
2006-05-20 15:12:25
198.   sanchez101
That hit makes me think the Bill Mueller would look real nice in Phillies uniform. He really golfed a ball that looked outside of the strike zone. Ill take it.
2006-05-20 15:13:00
199.   gpellamjr
Terrible strategy! Why wasn't Aybar bunting? Doesn't Grittle know that you can't win by the 3-run homer?
2006-05-20 15:14:00
200.   Curtis Lowe
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-05-20 15:14:08
201.   sanchez101
see, Willy killed that rally
2006-05-20 15:15:54
202.   Curtis Lowe
Russ Almighty isn't doing very well today at the plate.
2006-05-20 15:16:48
log jam gallore, we have Bill Mueller, Willy Aybar & LaRoche, what to do, what to do.
2006-05-20 15:17:23
204.   natepurcell
Russ Almighty isn't doing very well today at the plate.

day game after a night game. I thought alomar should have gotten the start today. even though he is 23, he still needs regular days off to keep fresh for the whole year.

2006-05-20 15:17:55
205.   gpellamjr
203 There's no logjam. Aybar is the 2B of the future, LaRoche will come up when Mueller is gone.
2006-05-20 15:18:29
206.   Buffalo Jones
Not a bad outing by Tomko
2006-05-20 15:19:14
207.   Curtis Lowe
204- I agree, I just wanted to use his new nickname in a post before I left for a late lunch.
2006-05-20 15:19:34
208.   gpellamjr
One thing that you can say about "homer" announcers--- they quit easily. Steiner was reminding us in the fifth that the rubber game would be played tomorrow.
2006-05-20 15:21:08
209.   Buffalo Jones
Vlad scares me!
2006-05-20 15:22:01
210.   Uncle Miltie
The highlight of Joe Beimel's career!
2006-05-20 15:22:10
211.   Buffalo Jones
Not anymore
2006-05-20 15:22:13
212.   sanchez101
208. another thing you can say about "homer" announcers -- theyre kinda stupid
2006-05-20 15:23:47
213.   gpellamjr
Monday: "The rulebook has a very distinctive area for the strikezone..."

Somebody should tell the umpires of MLB.

2006-05-20 15:24:40
214.   gpellamjr
I've asked it before, but I still can't find one--- watching this year, I've seen announcers for more than 20 teams. Is Vin (now that Ross Porter is gone) the only non-homer left in the game?
2006-05-20 15:24:42
215.   natepurcell
how was that not a balk? what the heck?
2006-05-20 15:24:50
216.   Vaudeville Villain

So you're not a Rex Hudler fan I take it?

2006-05-20 15:24:51
2006-05-20 15:25:07
218.   Marty
How is that not a balk?
2006-05-20 15:25:07
219.   scareduck
208, 212 - listen to the Yankees announcers sometime. Jerks and homers all.
2006-05-20 15:25:21
220.   overkill94
215 Seriously, that wasn't even the bending the rules Pettitte-style balk, that was just plain illegal.
2006-05-20 15:25:26
221.   JoeyP
Jon talked about yesterday being the Angel's lowpoint. Maybe for their pitching it was.

But having Joe Beimel strike the heart of your order out has to be the low point for the hitters.

2006-05-20 15:27:05
222.   underdog
D'oh, strikes out the side and they're still up. Nice pitching here this inning from Beimel, though.

No wait, Rivera's picked off and all is well.

So what about the news on that Aybar is being tried out in the OF? It would be nice to have a little more flexibility there, especially since it sounds like Repko will be out for awhile longer.

2006-05-20 15:27:23
223.   Marty
I think I heard earlier that the first base ump is a vacation replacement. Maybe he's too nervous to call that a balk. That's the only explanation I can come up with because that was the definition of a balk.
2006-05-20 15:27:31
224.   gpellamjr
219 I have. Living in NJ for two years, I got the broadcasts for NYY, NYM, and the Phillies. They were all nauseating.
2006-05-20 15:28:04
Shields would look good in Dodger blue.
2006-05-20 15:28:18
226.   Marty
2006-05-20 15:28:22
227.   gpellamjr
223 Any argument from LA of Anaheim?
2006-05-20 15:28:24
228.   Vaudeville Villain
Drew pinch-hitting for a home run? Sweet.
2006-05-20 15:28:25
229.   sanchez101
that was hammered, dodgers 5-4
2006-05-20 15:28:33
230.   natepurcell
nice job little.
2006-05-20 15:28:45
231.   MartinBillingsley31
2006-05-20 15:29:49
232.   gpellamjr
Drew just went over .300 in the all important Batting Average.
2006-05-20 15:30:11
233.   Uncle Miltie
DJ! At least Grits used him as a pinch hitter this time.
2006-05-20 15:30:30
234.   underdog
That was weird (in a pleasant way) I saw the highlights of JD Drew's home run (on the Fox telecast of the Giants-A's game) before I heard it on the broadcast. Obviously a thirty second delay or so, but I won't complain.
2006-05-20 15:30:38
235.   Marty
Shields is just another middle reliever. Why would anyone plan on getting him?
2006-05-20 15:31:14
236.   gpellamjr
Who is calling the game for FOX?
2006-05-20 15:31:28
dose anybody know when Shields contract is up? or can somebody give me a web site were I can look that stuff up.
2006-05-20 15:31:59
238.   sanchez101
Lofton looks clueless at the plate
2006-05-20 15:32:43

sarcastic alert.

2006-05-20 15:33:17
240.   Uncle Miltie
238- and in the field, but............he's fast!
2006-05-20 15:33:21

Lyons is one of the guys, I don't know the other guys name.

2006-05-20 15:33:28
242.   MartinBillingsley31

Lofton looks clueless at the plate

Lofton looks clueless period.

2006-05-20 15:33:35
243.   Marty
If Shields' contract isn't up this year, Stoneman is an idiot.
2006-05-20 15:33:40
244.   JoeyP
Whats with all these rally killing homers?
2006-05-20 15:34:08
245.   sanchez101

235. Shields is just another middle reliever in the same way that Carter is a proven closer.

2006-05-20 15:34:46
246.   Curtis Lowe
Baez in the 8th?


2006-05-20 15:35:02
247.   Uncle Miltie
235- he can't pitch under pressure. The Angels need a proven closer as their setup man.

Baez for Shields?

2006-05-20 15:35:19
248.   JoeyP
I'm actually confident the bullpen can hold a lead today bc I've seen little leaguers with better approaches to hitting than the Angels' hackers.
2006-05-20 15:35:26
249.   natepurcell
it seems like Sammy is our closer because I see baez on the mound and its not the 9th inning....
2006-05-20 15:36:23
250.   Vaudeville Villain
If Aybar can play the outfield competently, I think he should play over Cruz or Lofton. That may just be a dream, though, and when Mueller comes back one of our best bats gets relegated to the bench, 2005 style.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-05-20 15:36:32
251.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 249

Either that, or Grady's toying with the idea of Baez pitching two innings.


2006-05-20 15:37:03
252.   Chris H
Shields is a pretty above average middle reliever. His K/9 has been above 9 the last couple years and G/F has been right around 2. Plus, he has been durable and healthy.

I believe that he won't be a free agent until after the 2008 season though.

2006-05-20 15:39:45
253.   Curtis Lowe
Gameday died what is happening?
2006-05-20 15:40:26
254.   Buffalo Jones
so did Yahoo.
2006-05-20 15:40:44
255.   gpellamjr
Hey, in case you haven't heard, Barry Bonds hit a homerun today. I'm just saying it in hopes that it will keep Steiner from saying it yet again.
2006-05-20 15:40:53
256.   Chris H
Baez just had a 1-2-3 inning.
2006-05-20 15:40:58
257.   Vaudeville Villain
253- B-Rex retired the Angels in order.
2006-05-20 15:41:29
258.   natepurcell
Baez having a 1-2-3 inning totally made all electronic game following devices self destruct.
2006-05-20 15:41:44
259.   Curtis Lowe
256,257- Thank you, I thought maybe the nuclear holocaust had begun.
2006-05-20 15:43:28

is it raining out side?

2006-05-20 15:44:57
261.   Vaudeville Villain
Wow, the Angels released Alfonzo? That's unsurprising.
2006-05-20 15:45:59
262.   natepurcell
Aybar has a tough looking tat on his arm.
2006-05-20 15:46:25
263.   Curtis Lowe
I normally stream games with MLBTV from my laptop to the TV but MLBTV decided today would be blacked out.

I would greatly appreciate any updates since gameday decided it would die.

2006-05-20 15:46:58
264.   overkill94
A little heavy on the Lofton hate around here, coming into today his OBP is still an above average .342 and his 10/10 steals are an asset as well. I'm not saying he's amazing, but he's not struggling enough to deserve any hatred.
2006-05-20 15:47:10
265.   Buffalo Jones
As would I
2006-05-20 15:48:08
266.   sanchez101
Bulger strikes out Kent, then cant find the stikezone with Aybar and walks him, including two pitches that reach the backstop, Ethier singles off of Bulger's glove.
2006-05-20 15:48:25
267.   Curtis Lowe
Has anyone ever tried Alomar's BBQ sauce? I heard Vin mention it last night and am a sucker for Celebrity BBQ sauces.
2006-05-20 15:48:31
268.   Prescott Pete
needed: updates. Thanks.
2006-05-20 15:49:41
269.   sanchez101
264. Im not calling for Lofton to be benched or anything, but he has looked terrible today.
2006-05-20 15:49:42
270.   Curtis Lowe
Sweet Baez just got Quinlan to ground out.
2006-05-20 15:50:29
271.   Uncle Miltie
262- which arm? I'm sure it's of a pitbull because he's a beast.
2006-05-20 15:50:38
272.   RELX
Everything has ceased functioning--Gameday, ESPN Game cast. Or, Rob Quinlan is having the longest at bat in MLB history.
2006-05-20 15:51:05

5-4 Dodgers men at 2nd & 3rd with Cruz Jr. batting, full count.

2006-05-20 15:51:41
274.   overkill94
Giants letting Schmidt go for the CG even though he's thrown 113 pitches through 8. Let's see how this works out...
2006-05-20 15:51:59
275.   sanchez101
cruz walked, bases loaded, martin up
2006-05-20 15:53:15
Bases loaded Cruz Jr. worked a walk 1 out & Russell Martin coming to the plate.
2006-05-20 15:53:34
277.   RELX
Gameday is back up again, but is a few batters behind--I predict--Jeff Kent will....strike out. I predict Willy Aybar will...walk. I predict...
2006-05-20 15:53:41
278.   Curtis Lowe
These updates count as good deeds.

Just for those of you that are boyscouts.

2006-05-20 15:53:44
279.   Uncle Miltie
Frank Thomas has never sacrificed in his career (including the minors). Wow.
2006-05-20 15:54:01
280.   MartinBillingsley31

A little heavy on the Lofton hate around here, coming into today his OBP is still an above average .342 and his 10/10 steals are an asset as well. I'm not saying he's amazing, but he's not struggling enough to deserve any hatred.

I just don't want him racking up 4 or 5 at bats per game over guys like ethier and repko who could be part of our future either as starters in ethier's case or as a backup in repko's case.
And i don't want lofton starting over cruz who is known to have power and can put up at least as good of an obp if not better as lofton.

I wouldn't mind lofton if grady used him for what he's worth and that is speed, as a pinch hitter/runner late in the game when we need to steal a run.

2006-05-20 15:54:35
281.   RELX
I predict Jose Cruz will...walk
2006-05-20 15:54:51
282.   sanchez101
Martin outruns what would be a double play with most catchers, run scores cruz out at second
2006-05-20 15:55:42
283.   Curtis Lowe
Russ ALmighty?
2006-05-20 15:55:44
284.   xaphor
Saito warming up for the ninth
2006-05-20 15:55:53
285.   sanchez101
Molina lets a ball through his legs, Ethier scores
2006-05-20 15:55:54
Martin hit's a little blooper to McPherson, McPherson throws it to 2nd basemen but Martin beats out the throw to first, to beat out the DP. 2 down Tomato, coming up to bat.
2006-05-20 15:56:29
287.   Uncle Miltie
Schmidt has thrown over 130 pitches. Nice job Alou. Still, I'd keep him in over Benitez.
2006-05-20 15:56:35
288.   RELX
Would leave Baez in??
2006-05-20 15:57:31
Ethier scored on a wild pitch 7-4 Dodgers with tomato still batting
2006-05-20 15:58:51
290.   RELX
Now I see why Baez is coming out--the old PH trick!
2006-05-20 15:58:52
291.   Uncle Miltie
Jason Ellison made a great diving catch on a ball hit by Bobby Crosby, but then the ball came out of his glove. A's have runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. Benitez is coming in. The A's will win this game.
2006-05-20 15:58:53
292.   JoeyP
Sportsline almost always works even when yahoo/gameday stall.
2006-05-20 15:59:21
293.   D4P
Can't believe Grittle's using an unproven Middle Reliever® over a Proven Closer™.
2006-05-20 15:59:24
294.   Uncle Miltie
A rare walk for Old Maid (only his 2nd of the year).
2006-05-20 15:59:29
295.   adamclyde
glad gameday came back on just in time for our 8th inning runs...
2006-05-20 16:00:04
296.   overkill94
280 Cruz is known to have power? The guy with the .362 slugging percentage? I do like Cruz, but he is best used as a 4th outfielder and platooner. Repko has a decent case to start over Lofton, so it'll be interesting once he comes back how everything plays out. Keep in mind that Ethier has never really been mistaken for a CF either, so Lofton only has a slight effect on him.
2006-05-20 16:01:32
297.   JoeyP
Schmidt threw 132 pitches and only struck out 3 batters while walking 1. Thats very strange.
2006-05-20 16:01:37
298.   Uncle Miltie
Benitez blows it, tie game. LOL!
2006-05-20 16:01:53
is that Brazoban pitching?
2006-05-20 16:02:47
300.   JoeyP
Benitez Blown Save.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-05-20 16:02:48
301.   underdog
291 Looks like you may be right; or at least, the A's just tied it on a single after Benitez came in.

Schmidt threw 132 pitches, which shows you not only how much stamina he has but how much confidence Alou has in his bullpen.

2006-05-20 16:03:20
302.   sanchez101
296. cruz has hit 30+ homeruns twice, and owns a isoSlugging of .200, so ya, Cruz is known to have power despite what he's done for the last 100 ab's

Raffy single, Martin scores as the throw to the plate is late, Martin seems to know how to use his speed very well.

2006-05-20 16:03:28
303.   xaphor
Do we now sit Saito down and bring in one of our more entertaining options?
2006-05-20 16:04:24
304.   Greg S
Just don't bring in Carter. No lead to big for him to blow it.
2006-05-20 16:05:03
305.   Marty
I think I heard some Angel fans chanting "we want a pitcher, not a belly itcher".
2006-05-20 16:05:34
306.   underdog
Ouch. Line drive to third, doubled up, the A's have to settle for extra innings...
2006-05-20 16:05:47
307.   RELX
Let's bring in Carter. Our record in one-run games is only 6-10, so we need this one to get a little closer.
2006-05-20 16:05:49
308.   lakerican
280 My fellow puertorican Cruz will NEVER have a better OBP than Lofton in any team, league or park than Lofton...
2006-05-20 16:06:26
309.   underdog
Bring in Odalis! Doesn't he need some work? That would be reasonably entertaining.
2006-05-20 16:06:27
310.   Uncle Miltie
Kendall hit a hard line drive right at Feliz and the runner on third is doubled off. Benitez and the Giants get very lucky.
2006-05-20 16:06:49
311.   MartinBillingsley31

Cruz is known to have power? The guy with the .362 slugging percentage? I do like Cruz, but he is best used as a 4th outfielder and platooner. Repko has a decent case to start over Lofton, so it'll be interesting once he comes back how everything plays out. Keep in mind that Ethier has never really been mistaken for a CF either, so Lofton only has a slight effect on him.

If you look at cruz career stats you will see some power, yes he hasn't displayed it so far this season.
As far as lofton's effect on ethier, there has been times where repko and lofton have played over ethier and there have been times where cruz and lofton have played over ethier and keep in mind that drew can play cf, so i don't buy that lofton doesn't have any effect on ethier's playing time, because lofton clearly does have an effect on ethier's playing time.
Bottom line, lofton has kept others from playing.

2006-05-20 16:07:51
312.   sanchez101
Kendall hits into a double play with runner on third? nice. What do you think Billy Beane will give for Navarro?
2006-05-20 16:08:12

"we wan't a catcher not a belly scratcher"

2006-05-20 16:08:55
314.   D4P
For some reason, the way Steiner says "Saito" really annoys me.
2006-05-20 16:09:10
315.   JoeyP
I loathe Jason Kendall.
2006-05-20 16:09:27
316.   Greg S
Grady doesn't trust anyone other than Saito with this lead. And I don't balme him.
2006-05-20 16:10:04
317.   JoeyP
What do you think Billy Beane will give for Navarro?


2006-05-20 16:10:31
318.   Greg S
J.D. Drew -player of the game?
What about Aybar??
2006-05-20 16:10:38
Navarro for Zitto streight up.
2006-05-20 16:10:51
320.   sanchez101
308. Cruz has a higher OBP than Lofton right now, I hope you're just joking, because thats a pretty silly thing to say
2006-05-20 16:10:53
321.   overkill94
302 Cruz hasn't hit 30 homers since 2001, his high since then was 21 two years ago. Cruz is pretty much your typical 4th outfielder nowadays - OPS in the .775 range, mashes lefties, and plays adequate defense at all three outfield positions. He's a very valuable guy to have on the team, but since he doesn't have a ton of power or speed he doesn't really deserve a starting spot at this point in his career.
2006-05-20 16:12:39
322.   Curtis Lowe
321- He did make those great catches in the Astro's series. Not that those catches make him a starter but they mean something, Don't they?
2006-05-20 16:13:18
323.   underdog
Giants now have the bases loaded with nobody out in the 10th (two hits and an IBB to Bonds). Maybe Benitez will blow the save and then get the win. Gee, that sounds familiar.
2006-05-20 16:13:37
324.   sanchez101
I wouldnt mind getting Mark Ellis back in return for Navarro. Then turn around and deal Kent as part of a package to the Mets for our white whale ... Lastings Milledge!
2006-05-20 16:14:00
the series is had.
2006-05-20 16:14:08
326.   Marty
Nice come from behind win. Those are satisfying.
2006-05-20 16:14:27
327.   underdog
2006-05-20 16:15:03
328.   JoeyP
What has to take place for Matt Kemp to be starting in CF this season? I remember Nate posting some stats that showed Kemp line was similar to Miggy Cabrera's awhile back when Miggy was called up.

C- Martin

2006-05-20 16:16:05
The Angels will turn it around, there to good not too, But them A's are a great club as well.
2006-05-20 16:16:18
330.   Gen3Blue
Man , that Saito is the Ticket!! no lie.
2006-05-20 16:16:22
331.   Uncle Miltie
What do you think Billy Beane will give for Navarro?
Joe Blanton if we're lucky. He's having a terrible year. Richie Robnett is a pretty nice prospect too. I don't know if Beane wants to trade for a catcher with Jeremy Brown being close to the majors and Kurt Suzuki being their catcher of the future.
2006-05-20 16:16:36
332.   overkill94
328 It would be very unwise to rush Kemp. This is the first year he has shown some patience at the plate, let him keep it up for a full year before even thinking about giving him a starting role.
2006-05-20 16:16:39
333.   xaphor
A 1-2-3 8th and 9th. Time to break out the bubbly.
2006-05-20 16:18:15
334.   Greg S
Poor, poor Angels.
2006-05-20 16:19:07
335.   sanchez101
321. that may be true, but I think Cruz's problem seems to be batting average rather than raw power. Last year he slugged .532 with LAD, and posted a .200+ isoSLG with arizona, and a nearly .200 isoSLG with TB the year before. Keep in mind that Cruz put up a combined .287 eqa last year between LA and ARI, and eqa's of .267, .271, .274 the previous three years. The average eqa for corner outfielders is around .270. I think Cruz is in that middle ground between really, really good 4th outfielder and solid regular.
2006-05-20 16:20:07
336.   Uncle Miltie
I take that back. There's no way the A's would trade Blanton for Navarro. I like Ellis, but who would the A's play at 2B? Ellis had an excellent year offensively last year and his defense is very good.
2006-05-20 16:20:11
337.   MartinBillingsley31

Cruz hasn't hit 30 homers since 2001, his high since then was 21 two years ago. Cruz is pretty much your typical 4th outfielder nowadays - OPS in the .775 range, mashes lefties, and plays adequate defense at all three outfield positions. He's a very valuable guy to have on the team, but since he doesn't have a ton of power or speed he doesn't really deserve a starting spot at this point in his career.

And lofton does deserve a starting spot?
Cruz has a higher obp than lofton right now, god knows who has way more power(cruz), i don't see how lofton should be starting over any of cruz, ethier, repko.

I will say that out of all those guys the only one i see as a future possible starter is ethier, but then again with guzman and kemp on their way....

My basic arguement is why start lofton over prospects/youngsters when they are producing as much and even more than lofton.
What's the point?

2006-05-20 16:20:51
338.   thinkblue0
What do you think Billy Beane will give for Navarro?

absolutely nothing. The A's have a decent catching prospect of their own. The best we can hope for with Navarro is to package him with someone like Izturis to sweeten the pot for any deal...other than that, I don't see us getting anything for him alone..

2006-05-20 16:21:07
339.   Vaudeville Villain

I don't know if the Angels are really a great team. In fact, I think they have a good chance to be very mediocre this year. Their offense aside from Vlad Guerrero is league average or worse at just about every position, their defense is not that great, and the fluky pitching they had from last year doesn't seem to be carrying over this year.

The struggles they're having don't seem too unreasonable.

2006-05-20 16:23:36
340.   Uncle Miltie
The A's still have a chance, Benitez goes back out for a second inning.
2006-05-20 16:24:02
341.   Uncle Miltie
Base hit by Dan Johnson.
2006-05-20 16:26:09
342.   sanchez101
336. i think Kevin Melillo is a better prospect than Kurt Suzuki.

338. Beane would definitly see value in Navarro, kinda like Depodesta did. Suzuki is the same age as Navarro and hasnt seen AAA yet, I dont think Beane would let Suzuki or Brown stop him from getting Navarro.

2006-05-20 16:27:53
343.   JoeyP
THe thing about Kendall is he goes against everything the A's preach. The A's have always been about touting production over the intangibles.

But with Kendall, Beane acquired him specifically for his "intangibles". He knew full well that Kendall was on the downside of his career and was being paid alot of money.

So even the people that generally know what they are doing, still get caught paying that Veteran Leadership premium. It makes little sense.

2006-05-20 16:28:46
344.   Vaudeville Villain
Why trade Navarro anyway? Is there some law saying that you can't send catchers back down to AAA? It's not exactly a durable position, what if Martin gets injured? Alomar full time?
2006-05-20 16:28:57
345.   thinkblue0

well, it makes no sense for Beane with Suzuki, Brown, Kendall, AND Melhuse. Even though Kendall stinks he isn't leaving that team....and Navarro is no better than Melhuse anyways.

2006-05-20 16:30:48
346.   Gen3Blue
Kemp solid for 2008. No need to rush it. If he makes us move him up fine. We are seeing lots of people on the threshold and isn't it good. We are heading for an era in which we can supply good players almost everywhere and use the free money only to buy an exceptional talent or two.
I think at this point a long-term 7mil a year contract would be suspect unless we grabbed a young superstar and got him cheap for a long time. We can approximate anyone that cheap from our system.
2006-05-20 16:31:48
347.   Vaudeville Villain

I thought Beane got Kendall because he had a good OBP? At least he used to, anyway.

2006-05-20 16:33:17
348.   fanerman
347 - Yup. His last season with the Pirates he put up a .319/.399/.390 line. He actually has a .380 OBP right now. I was surprised by that.
2006-05-20 16:33:30
349.   Uncle Miltie
nate has his Miguelk Cabrera dream. I have a different dream.

Navarro, Izturis, Broxton, and Orenduff (plus cash to cover part of Izturis' salary) for Upton


Navarro and Guzman for Upton.

Lineup of the future
1. Furcal SS
2. Upton CF
3. Drew RF
4. Kemp LF
5. LaRoche 3B
6. Aybar 2B
7. Martin C
8. Loney 1B

2006-05-20 16:34:57
350.   sanchez101
for the record, id rather keep Navarro on the major league roster and send Alomar out to pasture. Im just proposing one potential trade partner that would seemingingly be interested in Navarro. Id rather wait 'till Navarro's trade value is higher, like in the offseason to trade him.

345. Beane could unload Kendall if he got Navarro, and Brown and Melhuse are backup catchers and Suzuki has less than 200 ab's above A-ball. Stathead like Beane love Navarro, PECOTA sees Navarro as being the third most productive catcher under 24 in the game, behind Mauer and McCann. It even likes him better than Martin.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-05-20 16:39:28
351.   sanchez101
349. Id rather have Miguel Cabrera, his top 20 comparable players includes Frank Robinson, Albert Pujols, Jack Clark, Vladimir Guerrero, Eddie Murray, Hank Aaron, Johnny Bench, Ken Griffy, Rusty Staub, Juan Gonzalez, Dick Allen, Jim Rice, and Orlando Cepeda. He has about as good a future as it gets. How about this trade:

... and two of the following list:
(Kuo, Orenduff, Abreu, Loney, Repko)

to FLA for Cabrera and Willis

2006-05-20 16:40:15
352.   Gen3Blue
I know it sounds cocky, but we have no real reason to make any trades, and in the past we have often been patsies. While we are in this position we should only consider desperate offers!
2006-05-20 16:44:35
353.   Uncle Miltie
351- so would I, but Cabrera is going nowhere. He is one of the best players in baseball. If we offered Billingsley and Guzman, the Marlins would probably reject that offer right now. Cabrera is a true franchise player. Trading him would completely destroy the Marlins and would make it likely that they'll be contracted.
2006-05-20 16:44:58
354.   Gen3Blue
351 Thats so crazy creative that I almost like it, but you got to take Elbert and Orenduff off the table. We may be thin in future pitching, and they aren't much in this Blockbuster, easy to replace.
2006-05-20 16:45:51
355.   thinkblue0

I'd give anyone not named Billingsley for Cabrera..obviously, as long as it was within reason (meaning not giving up like 8 prospects). I don't want to go anywhere near Willis...that guy is by far the most overrated pitcher in the game. If Florida was smart, they'd cash in on him now while they can.

2006-05-20 16:49:52
356.   thinkblue0

I couldn't disagree more. The marlins got a lot of good prospects this offseason. As you're seeing now some are already paying dividends. If anyone trades for Cabrera they're going to have to give up top tier prospects to get him which will load their prospect pool even more.

I just can't see them paying Cabrera money, especially when they haven't paid anyone him, and in a couple years they're going to be stacked again with great young pitching.

2006-05-20 16:50:50
357.   Gen3Blue
When are Willis and Cabrera free agents? That is important.
2006-05-20 16:56:51

from what I've heard there locked for a while.

2006-05-20 16:59:46
359.   Sam DC
I don't know if anyone is looking for a left-handed outfielder, but Ryan Church and his .823 OPS (5th on the team right now, though he's only played in 23 games) have been sent back down to AAA.

Man, the Nationals hate that guy.

2006-05-20 17:01:36
360.   Gen3Blue
They would have to be to give up that much servitude.
Willis and Cabrera are one thing, But giving up much for someone who isn't a proven major leaguer almost makes me say "Uncle"
2006-05-20 17:03:37
361.   Gen3Blue
Can Upton catch flies.
Or fly ball?
2006-05-20 17:07:12
362.   dsfan
Aybar's defense has been a bit unsettling, but the answer isn't to move him to another position.

Third base is his best spot and he should be adequate there. In more than 500 games at 3B in the minors, Aybar was graded as an average to slightly better 3B (not that fielding percentage is a great indicator, but he was good for about a .942 FP at third). He played about 150 games at 2B, starting with his Double-A season. His actions at 2B weren't good. Royster, who saw a lot of him, said as much. He had some footwork problems around the base.

By all means, if he's going to play regularly for the LAD, keep him at 3B. It's hard enough to adapt to the majors as it is.

Aybar has needed a bit of time to settle in at most every level (save as a MLB hitter).

In the minors, he had a rocky first season defensively (.908) but followed with 3B-FPs of .948, .947, .944 (after the year at 2B) and .963 in 78 games at 3B last year. He started 29 DPs in 110 games at third in '03.

As for Aybar adding muscle: Yes, he was quoted as saying in the LVegas paper that he hit the weights hard this past winter.
My guess is that if he added 10 pounds of muscle, there's a bit of adjusting to be done defensively.

There will be some growing pains. You just hope they're manageable. Ideally, Furcal would be playing great defense next to him - but I don't see that happening.

2006-05-20 17:10:37
363.   Sam DC
359 For accuracy's sake, Church was actually sent down to AA Harrisburg to be closer to the big club. (Nationals AAA is in New Orleans.)
2006-05-20 17:11:19
364.   JoeyP
It would be awesome if Aybar's power surge at the beginning of the year wasnt just a fluke. But he hasnt hit many HRs before this year, so we'll just have to wait and see.
2006-05-20 17:11:32
365.   Marty
They sent Church down again? What is going on over there?
2006-05-20 17:23:03
366.   Steve
Billy Wagner's corpse pitched quite a game today. As for young William Aybar, he and Martin are going to require the Hall of Fame to build a new wing.
2006-05-20 17:32:36
367.   dsfan

I see Aybar as a guy who would hit 14-18 home runs, 25-32 doubles and draw 50-60 walks, while giving you some pretty nice offensive versatility through an ability to spot your leadoff man and bat second, five, sixth, seventh and eighth. His approach also lends itself to some promise as a PH.
He averaged about 12-13 HRs from 2002-04 in the Florida State League and Southern League, which are pretty fair tests for a kid whose age ranged from a young 19 to 21. Another encouraging indicator: In about 2700 PAs, his K/W strikeouts ratios were pretty good.
I believe he's still filling out a bit. He's also still acclimating to a boatload of variables. Only in the past winter did he become marginally effective at speaking English. I also think Eddie Murray could be good for him -- maintaining two swings is so tough, and who did it better than Murray?
I'm hoping someone on the staff can coax a little better footwork out of him -- but that's mostly up to Aybar.

2006-05-20 17:46:20
368.   Bob Timmermann
All I know about Ryan Church is that vishal hijacked my "Da Vinci Code" review to complain about his demotion.

Perhaps I should go review another film, so somebody can complain about the Reds signing Joe Mays to a minor league contract.

2006-05-20 17:57:35
369.   Steve
Responding to the above, Shields is without a doubt a better pitcher in his sleep than Baez or Carter dream about on the bus to Las Vegas. Nevertheless, the goal is to create the next Shields from within, not overpay for the Angels' version.
2006-05-20 18:01:50
370.   Felton
11 and 18 - thanks for the information - how many ways are there to throw a change?
2006-05-20 18:28:37
371.   natepurcell
billingsley gives up a grandslam in the first.
2006-05-20 18:30:28
Bob J.D. Drew is gonna demand a re-count on the hero award. I had to do one of those double takes when I saw the score on the hero to zero award. As always great job.
2006-05-20 18:32:38

Do we have anybody remotly close to a Shields down in the farm? rubber arm & all?

2006-05-20 18:37:17
374.   dsfan
The Dodgers aren't a great team, or even a good one. But it's been many, many years since this franchise has been so interesting from Single-A through the majors.

It's one thing to have promising talent in your sytem and a promising young players on your 25-man roster. It's quite another to have good development situations at so many levels, as they have now. Aybar, Ethier and Martin are getting regular playing time, but there's enough veteran talent to shield them and the divsion doesn't appear strong enough to cause panic moves or create a more intense climate than a young player needs (of course, a few injuries could cause McCourt to order wholesale changes).

It's also interesting that you're seeing young players who have served worthy apprenticeships, and young hitters that arrived here with a demonstrated approach to hitting that increases the chances of success.
Aybar got to amass about 2,700 minor-league PA, plus the major-league primer last September. What better time than now to see if he can do it? I love that Ethier came up in Oakland's system and is pretty advanced for a rookie (even without the full TripleA season). And when's the last time the LAD had three young hitters such as Aybar, Martin and Ethier who had consistently shown good hitting approach at several minor league levels?
I'm not saying any of them is a great hitting prospect, but there's proven aptitude, talent and favorable timing.

And it seems like others in the minors will have reasonable chances to maximize their talents. Loney and Guzman won't be asked to carry this team and can proceed on a favorable development track. Sele's three good starts can only encourage the club to give Billingsley more development time (I don't see the LAD repeating the EJax mistake with Billingsely).
A guy like Kemp likely would've been rushed up to the big leagues a few years ago. Here and now, he's apt to get the needed development time. The pressure's also off LaRoche a bit, which I think may have helped him increase his walk rate.

The longer this team can be in the mix without doing anything stupid vis a vis its young players, the better the chances of building something very good and lasting.

And let's not forget: Most of Little's managing career was spent in Atlanta's system. He knows young talent and knows a thing or two about how to develop it. That can't be said of many major-league managers.

2006-05-20 18:42:52
375.   sanchez101
371. that was a tough half-inning:

Bottom 1ST B:0 S:0 O:0
Eric Reed singles on a bunt ground ball to catcher Edwin Bellorin. Eric Reed advances to 2nd, on throwing error by catcher Edwin Bellorin.

Bottom 1ST B:0 S:0 O:0
James Shanks singles on a bunt ground ball to pitcher Chad Billingsley. Eric Reed advances to 3rd, on missed catch error by second baseman Sergio Garcia.

Bottom 1ST B:4 S:0 O:0
Matt Cepicky walks. James Shanks to 2nd.

Bottom 1ST B:1 S:3 O:1
Jason Stokes strikes out swinging.

Bottom 1ST B:3 S:2 O:2
Jason Wood pops out to first baseman Joel Guzman on the infield fly rule.

Bottom 1ST B:0 S:0 O:2
Scott Seabol hits a grand slam (11) to left field. Eric Reed scores. James Shanks scores. Matt Cepicky scores.

Bottom 1ST B:0 S:2 O:3
Paul Hoover lines out to center fielder Jeff Duncan.

2006-05-20 18:46:00
376.   thinkblue0
going after Ryan Church might not be a bad would move Cruz to the 4th OF spot where he's probably best utilized. He can play any OF position and is a decent pinch hit option....and honestly, it couldn't take THAT much to get Church....could it?
2006-05-20 18:46:09
377.   natepurcell
really rough inning. oh well, lets hope he bounces back.
2006-05-20 18:50:38
378.   D4P
(Sorry if this has already been posted)

Interesting SI poll asking MLB players to name the most underrated and overrated players in the league. Dodger players made both lists.

#6: Buell Miller

#4: DJ Drew
#5: Nomah

2006-05-20 19:03:48
379.   Steve
Who is over-rating Jason Kendall? In any event, any over-rated list that doesn't have Juan Pierre on it isn't worth compiling.
2006-05-20 19:03:52
380.   Gen3Blue
I'll say about Church it might be nice to have him, but we have many options in the system. If it takes any more than say Denker, say forget it. Someone is trying to take you! You have plenty in the system and you don't have to win this year!
2006-05-20 19:05:04
381.   Andrew Shimmin
I think the Nats are just screwing with Church's head. They don't want to move him, they think they can fix (leaving aside what that might mean) him. Also, since they suck, the have to do something to distract attention. See? We sent down Church--We're proactive!
2006-05-20 19:12:32
382.   ToyCannon
Dodgers have been a ball to watch this year. Now 7-1 and looking forward to tomorrow and Tuesday night.

Uncle Miltie and I share the same dream about Upton being our CF. Other then the both of us being Clipper fans it may be the only other thing we agree on.

Great to see our two best hitters on the overrated list. I mean that in a positive way since I have very little respect for a ballplayers opinion reinforced by the incredible ignorance they display when they become color analysts. I was hoping Orel would be able to breakout of the tunnel vision but so far I've been unimpressed.

At this point in the season I'm a huge Little fan. He makes mistakes with his bullpen but seems to learn from them. That is all I can ask.

2006-05-20 19:16:32
how about that Burnett & A.J. fight uh!
2006-05-20 19:16:47
384.   sanchez101
380. Maybe Bowden needs some proven relievers, a Carter-Church trade would heighten my opinion of Ned immensely.
2006-05-20 19:17:07
385.   gpellamjr
I noticed that Loney is not in the lineup tonight. Anybody know what kind of playing time he's been getting?
2006-05-20 19:17:49
386.   Steve
If there isn't a Church for Duffy trade in the works, somebody hasn't been paying attention.
2006-05-20 19:17:55
387.   sanchez101
383. you mean Barrett, right
2006-05-20 19:21:27
388.   Gen3Blue
I'd give Carter and Hamulack for Church.
I'd give them for Upton, andthats generous for a minor leaguer.
2006-05-20 19:26:50
389.   natepurcell
Loney hasn't been in the starting lineup lately. I don't know why either.
2006-05-20 19:28:10
390.   Gen3Blue
I'm sorry, I'm watching the Sci-Fi channel original called Abominolble and it truly is.
It makes its predecessor called Suasquatch look like an Academy award winner, which is really saying something.
2006-05-20 19:36:23
391.   ToyCannon
For you guys getting all excited about our draft position you should check out John Sickels writeup on the 2000 draft which this class is being compared to.
Just our luck to be in such a great draft position in the worse draft year this century.
Sign Luke, get the college kid, and then take a chance on the HS kids in this years draft. What is the point of being a hard liner if he develops into a front of the rotation starter. If we don't get this done, my opinion of Logan White is going to drop a little.
2006-05-20 19:39:02
392.   Uncle Miltie
Anyone read this article?

It's full of errors. I realize that the author of this article has a serious disability, but that should not excuse her for making errors such as:
"The Dodgers made Furcal the richest shortstop in history"
I assume she meant in terms of annual salary which would be incorrect. A-rod and Jeter definitely make more.
"Navarro wasn't performing when he got hurt, and the Dodgers had both Navarro and Martin in the organization."
I didn't realize that a catcher hitting .280/372/.387 was considered not performing
"Therefore, when Izturis returns, why isn't anyone talking about making Furcal a super utility player like they are about Izturis?"
Is she insane? Furcal is not going to accommodate Izturis. I realize that she likes Izturis a lot (so do I), but she needs to use a little common sense.
"Although Furcal has many more stolen bases than Izturis, Izturis has played for former Dodger manager Jim Tracy, who didn't prize the stolen base. I believe Furcal has had the green light to go any time for almost his entire career. However, Izturis hasn't. Given the opportunity to steal, Izturis probably would have nearly as many as Furcal."
More assumptions. She assumes that Izturis would steal as many bases as Furcal, despite:
1. Not being as fast
2. Being a worse baserunner
3. Not getting on base as much

"I feel the Dodgers can use both Furcal and Izturis. They need to find a place for both in the lineup. I don't know how Colletti and Little will solve this pleasant problem. It will be interesting to see the solution."
MartinBillingsley, oldbear, and Steve- I hope you have a barf bag handy.

I actually found here suggestion of going after Brian Giles as a leadoff hitter interesting. The problem is, Giles wanted to stay in San Diego (as she noted in the article). There's a lot of stuff that I didn't agree with (the Pierre suggestion which I didn't even mention until now), but the lack of research involved in this article is what really made me go Milton.

Call me cruel, but this was a very poorly written article.

2006-05-20 19:53:00
393.   natepurcell
Loney just PH. I dont get this. Why has he PH the last two games and not started? whats going on?
2006-05-20 19:53:33
394.   JoeyP
I think whats more alarming is that her physical disability should have no effect on her mental abilities.

I think its great that she takes the time and effort to write articles. But I dont think its cruel for people to criticize the content either, since her physical limitations shouldnt be an excuse for poor intellectual argumentation.

2006-05-20 19:54:45
395.   sanchez101
I think this may be Billingsley's most impressive start this season(well, aside from his no hit bid). Since giving up the grand salami, in an inning where his defense was less than reliable, he's responded with 5 innings, 2 hits, 4 K's, 1 walk, and no runs. Most importantly he's been effecient with his pitches, getting through 6 innings with 91 pitches. I'm willing to forgive him for the slam considering the ballpark, altitude, and the wind.
2006-05-20 19:55:35
396.   JoeyP
She's also an amateur and I assume isnt getting paid much for her articles. I've seen much worse articles from such "professionals" like Michael Ventre.
2006-05-20 19:57:11
397.   dsfan

I don't disagree, but for me, this is the kind of draft that separates the great scouts from the others. As the Rockies scouting director noted, some interesting players emerged from the 2000 draft (including his RF, I believe, Hawpe, who's a pretty decent player as a converted 1B who's coming along this year.)

And it's also a draft that places extra emphasis on your development people. If the "sure" talent is less plentiful and you have extra pics, you're probably more incline to go for riskier guys with good upside. That's where development acumen becomes more of a factor (not a strong suit for the Dodgers). The draft-and-follow game also becomes more interesting with this kind of draft. IIRC, Laroche was such a player.
I'm also as willing to blame Hochevar for this mess as I am White. Ultimately, the athlete hires the agent -- or in this case, agents -- and it is the athlete who decides whether to sign or not.

The Hochevar saga comes down to Colletti. If a deal's going to get done with the LAD, Colletti's in the best position to do it, because he had nothing to do with the squabble and can enter this as the holy innocent.

2006-05-20 19:58:34
398.   caseybarker

I thought she was some kid. I hardly waste my time at anymore, besides the "Dodgers' notes" articles.

2006-05-20 20:01:09
399.   dsfan
I'd be willing to forgive Billingsley two grand slams and a triple off the center field wall. He's 21 years old pitching in a hitters paradise, backed by a questionable defense. The great thing is Sele is making it easier for Billingsley to get optimal development time. I'd love to see him develop his changeup and lower his career walk ratio.
2006-05-20 20:03:50
So your saying she dons't have the right to her own opinion? I just wanna get a feel for what your trying to get at.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-05-20 20:04:50
401.   bhsportsguy
393 - In some ways Loney may be the one prospect who is the odd man out whenever there is no DH in the game. Again not knowing the dimensions of the Albq. outfield, if it is a large OF, they probably feel that they can't start both Guzman and Young at the same time. Today they started Guzman 1B to keep his bat in the lineup.

I think they have a pretty good idea about Loney but with Nomar's impressive start, especially his defense and the situation in the outfield, it is much more likely that the next position player that comes up is someone like Guzman in a corner OF spot and they want to get him at bats.

2006-05-20 20:05:21
402.   natepurcell
billingsley gets no leniency. anything over a 2.00 era is simply unacceptable.
2006-05-20 20:08:55
403.   natepurcell

she has a right to her own opinion but she has to expect criticism of it; especially if it lacks logic.

2006-05-20 20:09:27
404.   JoeyP
Guzman and Loney may be battling it out for who gets the 1st base job, and who gets shipped out come trading dealine time.
2006-05-20 20:13:20
405.   Uncle Miltie
400- having an opinion is one thing, fabricating things to support your argument is another.
2006-05-20 20:16:19
406.   natepurcell
soooo im watching ESPN and they are showing the reds tigers highlights.

bases loaded, zumaya on the mound and griffey at the plate. Griffey bombs one for a grand slam.

"so what nate? he hits bombs all the time"

the gun read 104mph on that pitch.

2006-05-20 20:17:12
407.   gpellamjr
400 There is a certain kind of person who thinks criticism is the denial of one's right to an opinion... I won't use the word, though.
2006-05-20 20:20:45
408.   Bob Timmermann
If you sent Sarah an email with your concerns and what you think she got wrong, she would like to hear it. She certainly expects criticism and response to her columns. She wouldn't write what she does if she just wanted everyone to agree with her out of pity.
2006-05-20 20:21:56
409.   Andrew Shimmin
Cerebral Palsy is a sort of brain damage. Fine to criticize her work but it's never a bad idea to mind your tone.
2006-05-20 20:26:18

it's her opinion! but I see your point. I don't agree with everything Bill O'reilly says but I still respect the dude.

2006-05-20 20:38:31
411.   Uncle Miltie
408- I'd rather not. I'm sure she gets plenty of nasty e-mails as is. Frankly, she is not a good writer, which I really don't have a problem with, but making up things to support your argument is wrong. That's what I'm being critical of (and the fact that's she not being objective).

409- I'm an equal opportunity critic. I am criticizing her errors and lack of ability to think with a little common sense. Izturis may be her favorite player, but as a writer, she needs to separate her affection for a player and look at the situation.

2006-05-20 20:43:45
412.   thinkingblue

The dodgers are a good team, and have a chance to be a great team. Our starters lead the league in ERA (and that's with the awful pitching of Perez, and inconsistancy of Seo)And we are near the top of the league in runs scored.
We have won 11 of our last 13, and don't look like we're slowing up anytime soon, especially with the return of Gagne looming.

Seriously, the dodgers RIGHT NOW, are very interesting.

2006-05-20 20:45:28
413.   Bob Timmermann
You don't have to write a nasty e-mail. Just write her an e-mail telling her where you disagreed and asking her what she meant.

E-mail can be civil!

2006-05-20 20:54:08
414.   D4P
E-mail can be civil!

Can wars?

2006-05-20 20:55:03
415.   dsfan

We certainly agree that the LAD right now are very interesting, and not only as a major league cub, but as an organization. That was the point of my too lengthy post.

I can't agree that the LAD presently are a good team -- OK to pretty good, yes, with the change to be good, yes, even the chance to be very good this year if they get lucky. But the bullpen and defense aren't what I would call "good." I'd rate the bullpen mediocre and the defense so-so.

2006-05-20 20:55:08
416.   dsfan

We certainly agree that the LAD right now are very interesting, and not only as a major league cub, but as an organization. That was the point of my too lengthy post.

I can't agree that the LAD presently are a good team -- OK to pretty good, yes, with the change to be good, yes, even the chance to be very good this year if they get lucky. But the bullpen and defense aren't what I would call "good." I'd rate the bullpen mediocre and the defense so-so.

2006-05-20 20:58:43
417.   Bob Timmermann

I remember hearing tales of Union and Confederate soliders calling truces to offer each other Dijon mustard for their sandwiches.

2006-05-20 21:13:19
418.   gpellamjr
415,416 What's the difference between "mediocre" and "so-so"?
2006-05-20 21:15:46
419.   Andrew Shimmin
417- Hey, what are you doing lounging around here? Shouldn't you be out watching R.V.?
2006-05-20 21:17:20
420.   thinkingblue
But the bullpen and defense aren't what I would call "good." I'd rate the bullpen mediocre and the defense so-so.<<

Like I said, with the return of Gagne looming (and hopefully Carter being sent down or traded for good), the bullpen will improve.
If Broxton can continue being lights out, and so can Saito, and Baez go back to being decent, with a healthy Gagne, this team has a good shot at having a very good bullpen.

Also, as for the D, Nomar is the only first baseman in baseball with out an error with 200 chances. Furcal been coming around for sure (did you see that play on Friday?), and the outfield does play good D. I mean, this team isn't the 2004 dodgers defensively, but they make all the plays when the have to, and don't make mistakes. A prime example of bad defense would be the angels (overruning balls, lettng people reach on Ks, misjudgeing balls, and so on.

I mean, if those two things get ironed out, I don't see where you think this team isn't good.

2006-05-20 21:17:57
421.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if I can see another movie unless someone can promise me that there will be an albino, self-flagellating, sociopathic monk character in it.
2006-05-20 21:28:49
422.   Andrew Shimmin
421- Well, let's say somebody promised just such a character was in R.V. Then, for the sake of argument, let's say there actually wasn't one. What sort of consequences would be involved for the hypothetical false promiser?
2006-05-20 21:34:01
423.   Bob Timmermann

I will send the evil forces of Opus Dei to take care of you. Being Catholic, I know the secret phrases to get them to my dirty work.

2006-05-20 21:39:43
424.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres have lost and the Dodgers are now tied for third with them, 1 1/2 games out.
2006-05-20 21:53:23
425.   DodgerHobbit
392 nobody could write an opinon article without making at least a few assumptions about their subject. I think it is about whether or not the assumptions are fair. The more the reader has to make leaps of faith, the less persuaded the reader will be.

Obviously the first error you cite is correct regarding salary. Furcal doesnt make as much of the annual salary or total contract of the big power hitting shortstops. However, Furcal is the highest paid Dodger shortstop ever. Since the site is about the Dodgers maybe that could have been implied. Obviously that could have been spelled out better if that is what she meant.

The point about whether Navarro was producing when he got hurt is debatable. He looked horrible despite his bat. His defense hurt the team alot by not blocking pitches. Catcher is mainly a defensive position with good offense being a bonus usually. In my opinion his bat did not make up for his--in my opinion again--sloppy defensive play. He obviously was hitting. The author never claimed he was not hitting. Now if the author were critiquing a player like a first baseman or a left fielder then the reader would have to assume that the author meant offensive production since those positions are much lower on the defensive spectrum.

I think attacking the author on the point about whether Furcal should be made into a utility player misses the point that it was a rhetorical question.

The stolen bases point you make glosses over 2 key words-- probably and nearly. It is her opinion based on the 3 or 4 facts she writes before her opinion that Izturis, given the chance, Probably have stolen Nearly as many bases. The author qualifies her assertion twice. It is debatable and the opinion does have facts that back the author up. Not that there isnt factual evidence to the contrary. You point out contrary evidence. Would the article have been a lot better if the author had taken on objections to her opinion/contrary evidence and dealt with it? Of course it would, but that doesnt make her opinions wrong...and it does not invalidate the facts she uses as the basis of her opinion. Just because there is evidence that contradicts a person:s opinion doesn:t invalidate the opinion. She just fails to address the other side of the argument.

411 Finally, the author doesnt need to be objective, it is an opinion piece.

2006-05-20 22:17:32
426.   Steve
422 -- You misunderstood. That was R.V.'s audience, not its cast.
2006-05-20 22:20:23
427.   thinkblue0

you're assuming Gagne returns which isn't set in stone. Sure he looks okay now, but he's coming off his second major elbow surgery in a year and for all we know he'll break down in another week. I hope he dominates, but we can't assume it.

I'd grade our bullpen not as mediocre, but as bad. We really need to find a way to ditch Hamulack and Carter..if this means taking a chance on the waiver wire then by all means do it, because they can't be worse than those two guys.

As far as D, Furcal is coming around which is nice. You're right about Nomar, he's been good. We're a little shaky with Aybar...I really like him, but it's the truth. Our biggest defensive upgrade is Martin. It looks like he's flat out won a job with his play which is a nice to see.

Let's just hope Gagne comes back to dominant form...I'd feel a lot better with Saito/Gagne anchoring the bullpen and it'd probably lead to a lot more wins.

2006-05-20 22:22:16
428.   das411
Hey Bob, when will we get your hockey Conference Finals picks?

And can somebody explain to me how Ruth only won 1 MVP in his entire career??

2006-05-20 22:28:29
429.   Steve
Bob is hard at work on his Benchwarmers review and hasn't had time to properly do his hockey analysis.
2006-05-20 22:29:43
"but he's coming off his second major elbow surgery in a year"

thinkblue0 that's your quote secod major elbow sergery? I don't agree with the 2nd major part.

2006-05-20 22:34:35
431.   thinkblue0
hmmm...well the guy had Tommy John, had to get shut down almost all of last year for elbow surgery, and has had ANOTHER surgery that has made him miss the first two months of the season, if not more.

I consider that pretty major.

2006-05-20 22:47:47

it's not second major type sergery though! imo

2006-05-20 22:54:37
433.   Bob Timmermann
The MVP awards of the 1920 had a "no repeat" clause.

Lou Gehrig was the MVP of the AL in 1927.

2006-05-20 22:59:32
434.   Xeifrank
1. Oh
2. Gibson
3. Aaron
4t. Ruth
4t. Bonds
vr, Xei
2006-05-20 23:34:46
435.   thinkingblue
*you're assuming Gagne returns which isn't set in stone. Sure he looks okay now, but he's coming off his second major elbow surgery in a year and for all we know he'll break down in another week. I hope he dominates, but we can't assume it.

I'd grade our bullpen not as mediocre, but as bad. We really need to find a way to ditch Hamulack and Carter..if this means taking a chance on the waiver wire then by all means do it, because they can't be worse than those two guys.*

In that Gagne is still an if, and our bullpen has 2 stiffs right now, you're right. But IF Gagne come's back and dominates, we can have a very good bullpen with Gagne, Broxton, Saito, Baez, and sometimes Bimel.

2006-05-21 00:21:04
436.   Andrew Shimmin
431- He didn't have a TJ last year. They dug their way in to his elbow, but upon arrival found the ligament to be in good condition. The first surgery was scar tissue removal and nerve re-setting. The second one was not as invasive, since they only plucked out the troublesome nerve. Whether it should still be called major or not, I don't know (IANAD).

There's still a question of whether he'll ever be effective again, though. There's a reason they don't just pull that nerve out in the first place. I hope nothing but the best for Gagne, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't have any much control upon returning. Being able to feel where your arm (and each of its parts) is in relation to everything else is kind of important to pitching.

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