The Dodgers won't put Kent on the DL until after the draft. They'll just pick a high school second baseman (not there is such a thing in the draft) and send him out there. That way we can avoid all that pesky minor league seasoning.

Well if he goes on the DL, at least that solves the dilemma of what to do with Aybar when Mueller comes back.

2 But what about the here and now, when they're both hurt?

I vote Delwyn.

What kind of 0-fer would Martinez need to post to drop his OPS down below his .917?

3.

What about LaRoche at 3B?

If Kent goes on the disabled list, they might just recall Robles.

At least we didn't trade for Hairston:)

I think Delwyn's infield days are over, LaRoche is probably the better option as he is hitting .327/.427/.490 in May. How far away is Mueller anyway? I think Lucille II can handle 2nd until he shows up.

D Young picked the wrong year to give up 2nd base.

6. ugh.

3 I think the Dodgers would prefer Aybar at 3B so as to have suspect defense at only one infield position rather than two.

They could also call up jtd to play third.

Man, Vernon Wells must have been tired after rounding the bases so many times last night since he's on the bench today with the Blue Jays facing some rookie.

aybar at 2nd laroche at 3rd? sure why not. Delwyn has been playing the outfield, so i dont know about promoting him to 2nd. at least aybar would be a more productive bat.

6 But since they just optioned Robles, that means they can't call him up again for X amount of time.

Of course, I don't remember exactly what "x" is.

14
It's 10 days unless there is an injury. Then you can bring someone right back up.

So "Inside the Dodgers" gets their information from Fred Roggin? That doesn't seem very "inside"...

Tonight's starting line-up from insidethedodgers.com

Furcal
Lofton
Nomar
Drew
Aybar
Ethier
Lucille
Martin
Tomko

Same as yesterday. So where does Kemp fit in now that the outfielders are healthy? Send him back down while his confidence is still high? Give him 3 starts a week?

You know, with Aybar playing the way he is, it might be an interesting idea to trade Mueller for prospects at the deadline.

Also... at what point do we start talking contract extension for Nomar?

In Will Carroll's UTK column he gave his analysis of Kent's injury.
"In the meantime, the Dodgers expect to have Jeff Kent back in the next couple days after a hand problem has held him out. Kent's problem is in the "web" of the hand, between thumb and forefinger, and sounds a bit like DeQuervain's syndrome, an inflammatory condition that can radiate into the wrist. I can't find any comps in the database--and worse, my top research assistant has left for the summer to try and help a major league team--but the problem is usually controllable with cortisone injections. I'm not sure if this is the actual problem for Kent, so we'll watch closely."

I'll say this for the injuries that befall the Dodgers, from Izzy's TJ operation, Werth's mysterious wrist, Gagne's nerve, and this one, an ACL tear would be refreshing.

At some point you have to wonder how many rookies the Dodgers can start before "exciting young team" turns into "rebuilding project."

Robles must be running out of options, in more ways than one.

20

21 Assuming you missed Mr. Timmermann's class on this a couple of days ago. "Options" are actually option YEARS. Once you use an option within a season, you can send the guy up and down as many times as you want.

20
I guess a team with a bunch of rookies turns into a rebuilding project when they stop winning.

18- I don't see that happening. Ned wants to stick with the hired guns. Wilber will go back to the bench when Mueller returns.

Also... at what point do we start talking contract extension for Nomar?
After the season. We don't want to make the same mistake we made with Kent.

Ned was at Jacksonville yesterday watching the Suns. I really hope they don't call up Tony Abreu. He is definitely not ready right now, hitting wise. Calling up Laroche to play 3B and moving Aybar to 2B seems like the best option.

Why hasn't K Loft gotten any rest? We now have Kemp on the roster who can play CF. K Loft hasn't gotten a rest in a while. Maybe I shouldn't question King Little.

an ACL tear would be refreshing

Never thought, I'd ever see that statement.

19 Don't forget Penny's mysterious biceps nerve injury.

Kemp: Play 'em or send 'em down.

25 This is only his 3rd start in a row...

24

I guess a team with a bunch of rookies turns into a rebuilding project when they stop winning.

Right. The question is, how many rookies can a winning team sustain in its starting lineup before it starts to play baseball like teams from Florida?

I'm guessing Flanders was in Jacksonville figuring out which prospects he can afford to deal. It seemed like the outfield was a priority, but starting pitching is the number one need I think.

28 - somehow facing messrs. Floyd, Madison, et. al. might be more appealing than facing Tim Hudson. Also, I think it is real likely that he will be in tomorrow because of the late night/early morning arrival and probably play over the weekend with the two day games.

Flanders was watching the hitters yesterday, as the only pitchers he saw were AAAA'er Heath Totten and indy league vet Adam Thomas. Laroche, Abreu, Hu, and Ruggiano all played, but no one else that Flanders should be interested in did.

It's May 31, and we've already seen more of the big prospects than I ever thought we would this year. We've been really fortunate with the injuries in being able to give extended looks to these guys. Does this mean the program is a year ahead of schedule, or are we just going with the flow?

The question is, when and if everyone is healthy, who's really forcing the issue for the starting lineup and roster decisions for the remainder of the year. Martin has basically won the starting job, and forced a decision on Navarro vs. Alomar (which can't be that hard, can it?). I'd have to believe that as well as Aybar has played, he goes back to the bench. Does Ethier, or some combination of Ethier/Kemp/Repko lessen the desire to trade for an outfielder? I really think Kemp is just up to get a taste, but who knows?

The Apocalypse has arrived, Jason Kendall hit a home run today!

Aybar is better at second than at third. We all know Robles would just get called up if Kent went down. We can start talking contract extention for Nomar in November. Enders, why didn't you write a Dodgers Preview for BTF this year?

36 I haven't really been doing any posting, or even visiting, at BTF for the last year or so. Combination of other things taking up my time and the site's gradual jumping of the shark (in my view).

It just cracks me up that the nickname Flanders has stuck. I'm not sure if that makes me a bad person, however.

25. I think it is a little premature to call the Jeff Kent extension a mistake, but I agree that the Dodgers should wait a little while before extending Nomar. Not until the off season though. I wouldn't want them to get into a bidding war with someone.

33 I meant to say that Flanders was deciding which hitters to deal for pitching.

37
BTF is a good place to get yelled at by a Mets fan. Or you can read the polished stylings of Backlasher about steroid use.

35. Did it bounce off of Jose Canseco's head and go over the wall, or was it a real homerun?

How about moving Nomar to 2B, with a Saenz/Loney platoon at 1B?

Nomar is not moving.

One of life's simple pleasures is to read the Giants' lineup on days when Bonds is not playing. Finley, Sweeney, Durham = the heart of the order.

19. Maybe the Dodgers just have bad doctors.

Maybe?

Another day has come without a solution to Jeff Kent's injured hand...
It's like Damaged Dodger Mad Libs!
"Another day has come without a solution to (player)'s injured (body part)..."

I can already tell I'm about to take a turn for the bitter, willing to exploit any mention of the team as an opportunity to complain about the training staff. Unchecked, this festers into an out-of-control obsession - and by then I'm a total downer to be around.
Another writer's take on such bitterness (over a far more serious topic): "When I was in college, an Armenian-American acquaintance told me about his grandfather's obsession with the Turkish genocide against his people in the early part of the 20th century. To a comment of 'nice weather, today,' the old man habitually replied 'What does it matter when our people were slaughtered?'"
To that, I reply, "What does it matter when Werth loses his career to a simple HBP?"

I don't think Nomar is such a great athlete that he could learn to play a FOURTH position in the last three years with any facility.

Sheesh, why don't we just move him to catcher too?

44 - Out of context, that post about gave me a heart attack.

49 On my softball team, I'll gladly go out to any position at any time, including catcher and pitcher. ;)

Speaking of playing above your head, how does Eric Byrnes have a .991 OPS?

When picking All Stars does everyone just vote for Dodgers, like me? Or do you vote for the players who are deserving?

52. Nine homers. How does Eric Byrnes have more homers then anyone on the Dodgers?

I vote for players who are deserving, but I don't always get around to voting anymore.

You can tell I'm new, since I first posted this at the end of the old, dying thread. (You can judge whether it was worth copying to this one.)

I decided to look it up to see how different the 2002 and 2004 Angel offenses were, and the answer is that they were just about exactly the same:

2002: 282/341/433
2004: 282/341/429

That's freakily similar. The Dodgers are currently at 278/362/429. So they are being more patient than those Angel teams, but not by as much as I would have guessed.

53, 55 Call me Archie Bunker, but I think that online voting for All Starts is an abomination. Talk about taking the magic out of something I used to love, sheesh.

53 I don't really vote, but if I do, I usually waste it on guys like Hanley Ramirez, who, despite being far better than guys like David Eckstein this season, will get 500 votes if they're lucky

53 I just vote for players I like. Or ex-Dodgers. Or for whomever I feel like voting for at that particular moment.

Usually I do one ballot a year where I just vote for all the bald guys. Which is a lot harder now that Matt Williams and Kirk Gibson have retired.

Eric Byrnes = .322/.380/.605
14 doubles
9 homeruns

WHY GOD?? WHY???

I'd think that's a huge difference in OBP averaged over a whole team, especially when the BA is only 4 points difference.

57
Archie Bunker.

60- At least Randy Winn has finally regressed. Byrnes mashing is maybe a third apocalyptic seal. Winn going two seasons without sucking is the seventh.

56. Wow, that is suprising how close the dodgers are to the Angels besides obp.

And you should change your name from another bob to a lesser bob. j/k.

I'm guessing there's some on this board too young to know who Archie Bunker is.

I'll know I've made it when a new poster comes along named Another Icaros.

But I'll probably have to wait in line behind Another Steve, Another Marty, Another Toy Cannon, Another Nate Purcell, Another Eric Enders, Another D4P, Another Suffering Bruin, etc.

Who is Archie Bunker?

57- The most disturbing, to me, thing about that is: you used to love the All Star game? Really? Last year is the first time I ever voted, and I only did it with quixotic hopes of driving up Izzy's trade value. I don't remember the last time I watched the game with any concern for the outcome.

Who is Bugs Bunny?

56 - Actually those 20 OBP points are a lot, consider that the Dodgers have 222 walks in 52 games, in 2004, the Angels had 450 for the whole season, while the Dodgers are averaging 4+ walks a game, the Angels were less than 3, so that could equate to one more baserunner per game which should mean some more runs during the season.

67 I think everybody knows who Archie Bunker is.

I mean, technically I'm too young to know. And I don't watch network TV as a matter of personal policy. And yet I don't remember a time in my life when I didn't know who Archie Bunker was.

65/67 - Yeah, that's depressing. But there's somebody I'm too young to know who it is. Go on - test me.

68 I like watching the player introductions. After that it's snooze time.

I used to love the All-Star game. Now it's like running into a friend of mine from grade school and having a harmless but ultimately superficial conversation.

72. Lucy O'ball?

72-

How do you know for sure if you don't know who it is?

im 20 and i know full well who archie bunker is, and ya, you are archie bunker. ill play the role of meathead and argue that online voting is good for someone like me that rarely gets to go to the ballpark.

The last all-star game I can remember caring about was the one in Detroit that Reggie Jackson hit the massive homerun in. 1974 or thereabouts. I can still hear Curt Gowdy's voice "calling" it. Gowdy was not a good baseball announcer.

Icaros, I'm hurt. "Etc."

Andrew, when younger, I loved that special game when the ballot showed up, poking the little chads out for all the Dodgers (didn't know then they had a name), finding a cute usher to hand it back to, and waiting to see who would win. Sure I did. I liked the All-Star game too, just to see them all wearing their different caps.

I was a kid.

79 How do you know you were even included in the "etc."?

You're so vain you probably think this song is about you.

;P

79 - When I think of ushers at Dodger Stadium, I think of Sid. He has worked the Loge level for I'm guessing 20 years or more, and looks almost exactly like Mr. Burns.

Now it's like running into a friend of mine from grade school and having a harmless but ultimately superficial conversation.

Nice.

I think that simile describes the way I feel about most of life in general.

79 Those old ballots were really a pain in the butt though. At least now they're perforated, but you used to have to use a hammer and awl just to fill the darned things out.

I make no claims that I am a greater Bob than anyone else. All Bobs are equal.

Well, actually all of us Bobs in this world worship the one true Bob, i.e. Bob Newhart. He is not a divinity. He's more like Buddha. He's led an exemplary Bob-like life and all of us Bobs try to follow down his path of proper Bobdom. Some Bobs stray and turn into Bob Saget or Bob Eubanks. We pray for those Bobs and hope that one day that they will be redeemed to their appropriate Bobness.

Many Bobs cried when they found out that Katie Couric was replacing Bob Schieffer. Bob Schieffer holds a special place among Bobs in that his given name is Bob. His parents took one look at him as a newborn and said, "He seems like he'll be an OK guy, let's call him Bob."

In a place as vast as L.A., do people really run into old friends from grade school?

"Some Bobs stray and turn into Bob Saget or Bob Eubanks."

Even worse, some turn into Robs.

Would Another Sam DC cover the Orioles exclusively?

I ran into an old grade school friend at my work. It was very strange.

84.

Some Bobs stray and turn into Bob Saget or Bob Eubanks. We pray for those Bobs and hope that one day that they will be redeemed to their appropriate Bobness.

Not to mention Bob Loblaw.

85-They do but it can sometimes be in the strangest places, the last time I did, I was working out in a Westside gym and one of the trainers was a guy I had not seen in probably 30 years but we still recognized each other, good guy, played a mean bass.

Every year, when y'all get around to bashing the All Star Game (I knew we were going that route once post 58 appeared), I mention that the game is a great excuse for having a party on a Tuesday night in the middle of the summer. Don't put any more baggage on it than that.

I also always mention that my All Star party is centered around serving food from the host city. Pittsburgh should be fun. Perrogis (sp?), right?

I've run into old friends from grade school at work. It is indeed weird.

85 - Yep. It's happened a number of times since I graduated from college, actually.

So Kent IS playing now?

81
I went to a Dodgers game recently and I was in section 122 and Sid was the usher. My friend had to take a picture of him as a souvenir.

Someone actually picked up a beachball and handed it to him.

Nevermind- KCAL muffed the graphic.

91 I think I mentioned this the last time you talked about it: scrapple!

I make no claims that I am a greater Bob than anyone else. All Bobs are equal.
Even Bob Saget?

Now that's the Tomko I remember from the Giants.

86 - "Oh, Rob!"
/Mary Tyler Moore

Tomko's ERA has broken Mock 4.

"I mention that the game is a great excuse for having a party on a Tuesday night in the middle of the summer."

So is a Tuesday night in the middle of the summer.

Oops, did not read your whole post.

I hope I don't see "Tomko, from X to Waivers" on my Fantasy Baseball transactions tomorrow morning.

Lyons- "That pitch not only missed location- it missed the area he was trying to go in the strike zone up or down." Say what? Is that another way of saying right down the middle?

Oh, great. I take it I am not going to like what I see when I start the tivo?

Depends how particular you are, Eric.

104 -- Since Andruw Jones killed that particular rally, Lyons should have been a big fan of that pitch.

My favorite part of any "Newhart" (the Vermont innkeeper series, not to be confused with the earlier "The Bob Newhart Show" or the later "Bob") was when Bob's TV producer, Michael, was talking about TV shows and told Bob that he really used to hate "that show with the stuttering psychiatrist."

Bob replied, "It's...it's...a...uh...uh...stammer."

Now Bob Newhart I am genuinely too young to remember. I try to picture Bob Newhart and all my mind's eye gives me is Bob Hope.

i like ethier more and more

I can picture Newhart, as a cartoon, speaking at Krusty the Clown's funeral.

107 Tomko is so cunning. He threw that lollypop to Jones, so that he can kill the rally.

109
So Eric doesn't remember when Bob and Jerry tried to include Carol's husband in their card game and had to play Klopsky and Sneeho?

Or which college Jerry attended?

109

He had TV shows in the 80s and 90s. I thought you were late 20s/early 30s like me.

113

I missed that one. I haven't quite seen all the Seinfelds because I didn't start watching until it was in syndication, for reasons described in 71.

114 Remember you are talking to a person who is only vaguely aware that "Lost" is some sort of TV show.

Is Bob Newhart's humor a bit "mature?" I just remembe seeing him on TV, when he was wildly popular, wondering what the fuss was all about. Maybe I was too young to understand his humor. Dick Cavett's popularity was also a mystery to me.

113

I only watched "Newhart" avidly. I've seen very little of "The Bob Newhart Show."

113

I only watched "Newhart" avidly. I've seen very little of "The Bob Newhart Show."

I did not do that.

86 Actually, I guess I'm a convert, since I was a Rob until junior high, and still am to my immediate family. Does that make me not a true Bob?

I think I've put a finger on why Newhart never appealed to me. As an Asian-American growing up in the predominantly Hispanic El Paso, TX, Newhart was a blast of white, middle American that seemed so odd and foreign. I get the same oddly creepy feeling listening to "A Prairie Home Companion" with Garrison Keillor.

Love the all-star game

Loved Bob Newhart and all the characters on his two shows but the 1st one was the best.

I hate watching old TV shows even though I know they made me laugh mightily once upon a time. They just make me feel old.

I'm only 24, but if it was on Nick At Night while I was in high school, I've seen every episode. People laugh at me when I say I watch every Dodger game every year-- needless to say, I don't tell them I've seen every episode of "One Day At A Time".

I love Bob Newhart, but I never liked "Newhart"

The Bob Newhart Show::Newhart
All In the Family::Archie's Place

What's white and middle American about three inbred brothers, two of whom share the same first name?

121
The path to finding your inner Bob starts with a change of but one letter. What matters is what's inside you? Do you embrace the Bob lifestyle? It can't be defined. You just have to know what it is.

122
My wife is a San Antonio Mexican and she loved Newhart and Martin Mull and his "History of White People in America".

"growing up in the predominantly Hispanic El Paso, TX"

You have got to be kidding me.

127.

You are starting to sound like L. Bob Hubbard.

125

That doesn't work, though, because "Newhart" wasn't a spinoff of "The Bob Newhart Show." It was a completely unrelated series starring the same actor.

Of course, I'm not counting the series finale, when Bob woke up in bed with his wife from the first series and complained of a horrible nightmare he just had about an inn in Vermont.

126 That's way too much detail for me. I, nor any of my Mexican-American friends from my childhood wouldn't watch the show long enough to know that much about the show. The humor had a decidedly "gringo" flavor.

The Incredible Hulk was more our style. We'd put an abrupt end to our baseball game when 5:30 pm came around on Friday evening. We also liked the Dukes of Hazzard, but you have to admit, the car chases, the car jumps, Daisy Duke shorts and the Boss Hogg caricature was much more accessible to an audience of varied backgrounds.

I think the first Bob I remember ever hearing anything about was Bob Ojeda...

I just meant to compare two shows with the same lead. Not that they had to be spinoffs.

Kayaker, what high school did you go to?

If I may suggest a book for people who wish to read further:

http://tinyurl.com/okdc9

128 You might find this strange, but San Antonio Mexican-Americans are much more integrated than those in El Paso. There are lot of kids in elementary school in El Paso that cannot speak English.

135 Andress. My brother when to Irvin. Why do you ask? Are you from there?

134

I know, but you'd have gotten a bad SAT score with that one.

138
Eastwood.

140 That's why you're such a trooper. What year? '89 myself (I'm dating myself).

136

Is there a Jason Book?

K Loft is awful. You would think that someone who is 39 would have better at bats than that.

'95.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up before, as I talk about El Paso from time to time on this site.

142
The Jason Book is the companion book to the Dodgers 2005 season highlight DVD!

I haven't posted that often lately, due to work pressures. Maybe that's why.

So, you still live there? My parents still live there, though I've escaped to Socal. ;-) (apologies to the rest of the posters for this personal convo)

Tomko is starting to pitch like the Tomko we expected. It was a good ride while it lasted.

Man! Tamko has nothing so far WOW!

146
You're apologizing as I get everyone to discuss my first name for about 30 minutes?

This is the Tomko I remember.

For some reason none of my browsers are working. They just say error connecting to internet, but AIM works and I can navigate with Windows Explorer. I checked firewall and none of my browsers are being blocked, any suggestions?

Grady should start getting Perez ready for long relief before this game gets out of hand.

146 I live in Cooperstown, although I spend a lot of time in EP and may be moving back there soon.

Off now to watch the Tomko implosion on tivo... enjoy the game, everybody.

149 Okay, sorry for apologizing.

Looks like our janitors might get some work tonight.

Its nice to see the real Tomko show up. I was wondering what kind of bizarro world was going on the first 6 weeks. Now I guess Sele would be the other shoe to drop?

How long do the Dodgers stay in contention with Seo-Sele-Tomko? Thats the question.

152 Have fun. Go Diablos! Go ten cent hotdogs!

154

Looks like janitor number one is starting to me.

Speaking of playing above your head, how does Eric Byrnes have a .991 OPS?

Byrnes + BOB = Good fantasy baseball player.

"In play, no out recorded."

This lead may even be Reitsma-proof.

Hey guys, my dad worked as a janitor for many years. It was honorable work.

161
Your father likely got paid a lot less than Odalis Perez or Tim Hamulack.

G'night guys. Off to Costco to buy dinner, then hom. Enjoy the "game."

Bravos' announcers say that the fifth run "isn't Tomko's fault". Excuse me, but who the heck let the man get to third with less than two outs and then gave up a deeo fly ball. Even if Ethier catches that, it's still a run.

Morons.

162 Yes, you'd be correct. I recall that his peak wage before he retired was around $7/hr. Anyway, gotta go. Have fun.

At least we won the series.

WOW, good catch by Lofton. I thought he misjudged it like the one last night.

Now that one isn't Tomko's fault. That would have been the third out.

Balking with the pitcher up. Interesting.

No one was more suprised by Lofton's catch than Lofton.

A run-scoring balk. Tomko and Sele together make two holes in this rotation that will need filling by the second half.

169 And it was a simple balk. Just stop moving. That's all.

Moron.

Is Grady worried about getting yelled at again?

173 - by whom?

171

You're crazy. Those two guys are AWESOME!

Have we had any comeback wins down by more than 5 runs this year?

Lucille is hurt.

176 I dunno, but I'd wager none against the likes of Tim Hudson.

Think there will be any Midas comparisons tonights?

Will it be possible for Tomko to eat a few more innings without leaving any more droppings behind?

Is Grady leaving Tomko out there to twist in the wind?

We were jinxed before this road trip when everyone was raving about our starting pitching.

The last 4 games, our starters went 2+, 4+, 6, 3 and counting.

Now Penny might be hurt and we can only count on Lowe and Sele (hehe) to give us consistent quality starts.

How things change so quickly.

Tomko has a bad start and now he's a hole in the rotation........ seems like an overreaction but when has that ever happened here. At least he doesn't have a hole in his head like Penny.

Ethier got one unearned run back with that hit.

So who is our third-string 2B?

180
If the season were a 5-course meal, it's starting to look as if Tomko filled up on appetizers.

You think there bullpen can give up 8 runs in one or two inning?

183 I think some might claim Tompko was always a hole in the rotation. He was just playing over his head.

JD Drew out, too.

186

I think Tomko will be o.k. everybody has bat starts.

183 Tomko has had 3 straight bad starts now.

Hmm.. Perez in. Tompko out. Martinez is ill.

J.D. out also! what!

were droping like flys!

Interleague games don't count.

Grady must be giving up on today's game.

Well, at least Kemp will get some AB today.

Since Perez is pitching today, I guess that means Seo will pitch Friday night.

Je, Je, The real Tomko... So the guy have been hiding all season...

183

This is his third bad start in a row

5/20: 4ER in 6IP vs. LAA
5/26: 6ER in 4.2IP vs. DC
5/31: Not good so far.

Tomko has a bad start and now he's a hole in the rotation........

He was a hole before the season began. Tomko's career has been filled with bad starts. But this year specifically, he's had 4 bad starts in a row. His first he just got extremely lucky in Colorado bc he gave up a ton of fly balls. His last 3 he's gotten torched.

I guess it depends on your definition of a "hole". I think a "hole" is a spot that can be reasonably improved. Tomko is probably a 4.50+ ERA pitcher, so to me thats a hole. Most teams should be able to improve upon that, or they wont be contenders for very long.

Perez must be the most expensive long reliever in baseball now.

Tamko has to regroup

183 If I'm not mistaken, this is three bad starts in a row--- he just happened to win the one against the Strangels.

202

he pitch a desent inning so i'm cool with it.

Perez looked really good there. His fastball was consistently at 88-89 and topped out at 92. Maybe he was going through a dead arm phase from the WBC. His changeup had good movement on it. Grady needs to put him back in the rotation (with Ned's approval of course). Wilber also showed some pretty good range at 2B on a groundball.

Martin has two hits in his last eighteen at bats. Statistically, he's dropped behind Navarro.

Grady should give Martin a rest since this game is out of reach.

I don't think Grady will pull Martin because what happens when Alomar hurts himself in the seventh?

What has gotten into the Pirates? They've been crushing the Brewers all series long.

To feel better, I'm going to focus on the fact that we took this series on the road.

Now the Bravo morons are talking about penny's blowup, again. It's water under the bridge at this point. And the Dodgers won!

209
Yeah. Isn't Repko the Emergency Catcher™?

Who is our 3rd string catcher or do we have one?

What has gotten into the Pirates?

Tracy's invigorating "blame the players" pep talks...?

Werth used to be also.

Nice at bat K Loft

Tomato!
Eh its 7-1 who cares.

201
We've disagreed on this assessment all year. Point me to a team who's number 4 and 5 pitchers have a better then 4.50 ERA and I'll concur but you won't be able to do so. He'll end the year between 4.00 and 4.50 and do a fine job as the number 4 pitcher. This isn't 1968 but 2006 and I'll take an average pitcher in the 4 hole. Anyone who thinks they can put out a rotation where everyone is 4.50 or below is living in a polyanna world. He's hit a rough spot as he was due since he was pitching over his head.
Cardinals - Carpenter under 3.00 every other starter including Mulder/Suppan/Marquies over 4.50. Ponson doesn't have enough IP to count.
Mets - Only Glavine and Pedro meet your criteria. Banninster doesn't have enough IP to count.
Reds - Arroyo and Harang, Rameriz only 37 IP
I could go on and on but you did mention these 3 teams as the teams you consider good since the Dodgers had such an easy schedule since we haven't played these so called good teams yet.

The plain fact is that in todays world, a 4.50 ERA from your 4 or 5 starter is acceptable unless you want to have a 50 million$ rotation and even the Yankee's/RedSox/BlueJays/Mets have been unable to buy a deep rotation.

Tomko has now overtaken Seo (10 to 9) for most homeruns given up so far this season.

Too bad Weaver isn't here.

After eight innings, it's still Arizona 0, Mets 0.

Pedro and Webb combine for 15 scoreless innings. But neither will factor into the decision.
0-0 top of the 9th.

219 Detroit comes close. Among the starters, only Bonderman has an ERA over 4 -- he's 4.61.

The defense behind Perez has been awful. He should be out of this inning.

Homerun so is it end of a rally?

Before Odalis gave up that sac fly I thought he was preparing to make a run at Orel's 59 shutout innings.

I will add if with the socalled 4 bad straight starts, the guy is STILL a 4.28 ERA pitcher contending with an 4.09 ace who BTW has less wins than him... HA,HA,

Let them be GM if they ever can...

220. I know that would be a real pitching duel.

Somebody tell Nomar it's not the 7th yet; he's ruining that wonderful 14-17 streak.

223
Yes, and in the AL that is impressive. If Maroth had been given enough time he would have climbed to 4.50 and Kenny Rogers always fades during the not summer. He's one of best April/May/June starters in baseball and one of the worse in July/August/Sept. Will be curious to see how Verlander does as his IP start to climb. I expect the Tigers to do a fade but the start has been impressive.

223 Let's make a bet, For how long?

During the Yankees-Tigers game they just flashed a graphic showing Detroit championships. They had the Tigers winning 4 with the last one being in 1874. Were they even a team then? I know they won it in 1984 also. Did someone's hand just slip on the keyboard a little bit?

Are the Dodgers starting (22555)?
Thats what i see when Lowe/Penny/Sele/Tomko/Seo start.

231 Don't mind me. I was just being a smartass.

At least Perez is getting some needed work tonight.

They're going to extras in New York.

Hey, Steiner, if the bases were 85 feet apart, the defense would play differently so the plays would be just as close. Same thing if they were 95 feet apart.

Lofton is really having tough time judging flyballs.

419- If Tomko can put together a sub 4.50 ERA (without too much special help from the defense, which doesn't seem to be a problem, this year) then he makes a relatively good 4th starter. I'm not sure he's even expensive for a 4th starter.

The argument, before the season, was over whether that was a reasonable projection. His homerun rate has (as was widely projected) jumped back up (even before tonight) to his pre-PhoneCoPark level. He's still striking out more and walking fewer, which is surprising.

Anyway, no fair redefining what the argument was over. It wasn't that 4.00-4.50 isn't good enough, it was that Tomko wasn't good enough to put that up. Jury's still out on that.

With Shawn Green on first, Johnny Estrada comes up...

-Foul bunt
-Foul bunt
-Missed bunt, out on strikes.

Boston won the NA pennant in 1874.

The Detroit NL franchise won the pennant in 1887.

84 So that would make Mr. Newhart a Bobhisaatva?

(I know, that conversation's ship has sailed, but it popped into my head right after I left work.)

206 Uncle Milton, Do you really beleive that is a good idea?

239
If we get to comment 419, I'm sure Andrew's comment will make sense. ;-)

Well, Odalis at last is consistent...

giving a run per inning!

Come back soon scrappy dog!

Tonight's favorite Rick Monday comment, about Odalis:

There's only one way to get back into the rotation: pitch well enough that they have to let you start, or have one of the starting pitchers get hurt.

It wasn't that 4.00-4.50 isn't good enough,

That was always the argument. Whether its smart to pay money for anything that is known to be average, mediocre, and with little upside? It goes back to spending 4.5 mils on Tomko to ERA 4.50, or giving the league minimum to Houlton to ERA 4.75. Where's the marginal benefit?

the updates from the Arizona vs. Mets games are greatly appreciated thanks.

248 I'm not sure I believe what I'm about to say, but: if you have enough money to pay what the market will bear for a league-average 4th starter, and you can't find a better starter who'll take what you're offering, then I guess you have to take what you can get. Sometimes average is all that's available.

It's a three Brandon game for the DBacks: Webb to Lyon to Medders.

251 Except for the Luis that broke it up.

251

I don't get what your saying Bob, is it still 0-0?

It is still 0-0. Now in the 11th.

Oops. 219 I meant.

$4.5MM is a lot of money, but for a league average pitcher, it's got to be around average. The problem is, it's a steep curve between average and replacement level, so paying that much for an older, little-upside Houlton isn't bright. Anybody know what replacement level ERA (or DIPS, maybe, or whatever else anybody would prefer) is? 4.50 is average, right?

Maybe Tomko really will be better than average this year. If he is, he's got to be worth the money he's making this year. Right? Anybody arguing against that? I could be wrong--maybe I was just taking for granted that everybody would be okay with a league average pitcher making average (if idealistically too much) money. But that's not what I took the argument to be. Sorry if I presumed too far.

Sometimes average is all that's available.

Certainly true if the farm system is barren.
But the Dodgers have Orenduff, Billingsley, Houlton to name 3 that could be better than someone league average or below (like Tomko is). And the salary structure also makes them more affordable. I doubt 1yr of service time clock was enough of deterrent to sign Brett Tomko to a 2-yr deal. It was just a poor decision every way you look at it.

253
True, I wasn't saying the score. I was just remarking on the DBacks using three pitchers named Brandon.

248. Houlton's ERA in Las Vegas right now is ugly even for Las Vegas and PECOTA's eqERA for him is 5.36. This is why Tomko is a decent signing, people tend to overrate the other options. Point to a rotation in our division that has 5 pitchers better than Tomko, or even 4. Weaver's ERA in 2004 and 2005 was 4.12, Tomko's ERA in 2004 and 2005 was 4.26. I think most people around here wouldve been happy to see Weaver signed to Tomko's contract.

why did Kemp get ABs in todays game? I thought something was wrong with his hand... or something?

255. the average starting pitcher gets paid closer to $8 million than $4.5 million. See Ortiz, Russ or Perez, Odalis.

255. Tomko isnt overpaid. Its more that Billingsley, Houlton, Orenduff are underpaid for what they could possibly do.

Say the going rate for a steel worker is 18/hr. Hiring a steel worker and paying him 18/hr, no one is going to frown upon that. But if the company also had someone willing to work for 10/hr, to do a similar job, it'd be a bad decision to hire the worker making 18/hr.

Its just that there were cheaper options (Houlton, Billingsley, Orenduff) that also have the possibility of being better, than the pitcher that ultimately signed (Tomko).

The saved money could go towards a better #5.

259 KENT is hurt; Kemp played.

256.261. but, what if Houlton, Billingsley, or Orenduff arent better. Houlton isnt, that much is clear, Orenduff had all of 40+ innings above A ball, he's an emergency option at best. Billingsley's a capable option, and he will be this year, and the rotation is still left wanting with both him and Tomko.

262

ohhhh, thank goodness i read that wrong. Why didnt he start?

264 Because you can't fit Ethier, Lofton, Drew and Kemp into the same outfield.

Why is Kemp still on the team I think is a better question.

Chavez on second with one out. An old friend at bat for the Mets.

Bottom 11, runner on 2nd, 1 out and Old Friend LoDuca strikes out on contested call. Close to getting tossed.

The old friend Ks on a checked swing that he disagreed with.

Just another hit stolen from Aybar

that was a terrible call, pratt was 6 inches off the plate

Carlos Beltran just Jermaine Dye'd his knee.
Yeeee-ow.

260- Well, that's two. It shows that Tomko isn't as overpaid as other people, but not that he isn't at all. Ted Lilly is only making $4MM. Anyway, I don't actually know the answer to this, since I don't have the numbers in front of me.

I think the blocking prospects argument is weaker now that Grittle or Colletti, or both, have demonstrated no compunction in banishing Odalis to the pen, deservedly or not. I don't see why they would sit $8MM but not $4.5MM.

Beltran didn't hurt his knee that badly. He finished the AB and struck out.

272. are you saying Tomko was as bad as Perez coming into tonite?

However, Beltran didn't come out to play defense in the 12th.

Leadoff single for Tony Clark.

There's a rabbit,
No, there's a deer
No, there's a stork on the loose!

Old Friend Duaner pitching to Old Friend Shawn Green with Old Friend Paulie catching. Its the 2004 alumni reunion.

And Green bounces into a 4-6-3 DP.

Old Friend Green hits into DP

And Jose Valentin playing second base.

272. Well, if ERA says something to Little, maybe that's the reason...

274 Well, we did banish OP after three bad starts out of six. If Tomko would have had these starts early, he would be just as bad.

This is why you don't make decisions based on three starts.

Time for Jorge Julio to make his triumphal return to Shea Stadium!

Carl Crawford is 2-4 with a 3 run homer. He's trying to show off for the Dodgers scouts.

"For years people would say I'm a line-drive hitter who should hit the ball over the shortstop and just use my speed," he says. "But I'm a guy who can do much more than that. I can hit homers, I can drive the ball deep, and that's what I started to do last year. I want to be known as more than a guy with speed."-Crawford

He has the right mentality. I hate when dumb coaches tell fast players to hit it on the ground even when they have power. I've heard people say that Soriano would be a better hitter if he hit the ball on the ground. This is why players like Juan Pierre are overvalued.

274- I'm not at all. Sorry, should have made that clear. I'm saying that, should the time come when Billingsly would out perform Tomko, he'll get the spot. That worrying about Tomko blocking a prospect seems to be unnecessary, now (whereas it was a legitimate concern before the season started) because of the way Odalis was handled.

Tomko, bad three starts and all, has certainly deserved his spot this year.

Carlos Delgado is 5 for 7 with 2 HRs against Jorge Julio in his career.

Carlos Delgado is now 5 for 8 against Jorge Julio.

282- I don't think Odalis should have been banished either. But, because he was, the other, more narrow, concern over whether that could be permitted to happen would seem to be answered. It's still possible that the wrong rotation will be set. But, it seems much less likely that it would be set wrong (if it were) out of deferrence to salary/veteranness/etc. Even if a wrong metric is used to pick the five best starting pitchers, at least one of the possible wrong metrics (salary) won't be one of them.

285. oh, ok, then i agree with you. I think Seo is occupying the Billingsley spot in the rotation. Id rather see Seo in the bullpen in a Wilson Alvarez role, while Hamulak spends some time in AAA. I think thats coming sooner rather than later.

273, 275 - The possibility of posting timely follow-ups was dashed by a supervisor's implied command to work.
I hate those.

The Dodgers and Braves finish their season tied 3-3. So if both teams win their divisions and finish tied with the same record, seeding will be determined by the team with the best record over the last 81 games of the season.

Time to plan ahead and all that.

come on Mets score already!

Well, the DBacks are batting now in the top of the 13th. 2 outs.

Sanchez pitching well.

288. another reason why Ned is smarter than he looks, I was a huge supporter of Depodesta, but ive been pleasantly suprised by Ned so far. Benching Odalis has proven to be the right move so far, Sele's been great.

Pre-Season Bill of Indictment Against Tomko

1. He won't be good enough to deserve the spot, much less the money
2. He'll block Billingsly
3. I hate Tomko

Number one is, to this point, wrong; but it's still open, and threatening to come back around. Number two seems very unlikely. Number three abides; sure it's silly, but Miltie and D4P get Kent, so, I don't know. . .

Grimsley pitching the 13th for the DBacks.

Leadoff double for Valentin in the 13th.

Castro gets an Olney to move Valentin to third. Chavez up.

295

what did he ever to do you Andrew?

Tomko's demotion will have to wait at least until we find something to do with the Korean Jeff Weaver.

Game winning single for Chavez. Mets win 1-0.

299- There was this girl in High School I really liked. I mean, really liked. Tomko rolled up in his fancy car, with his $200 haircut and whisked her away. I'll never forgive him.

301

woo hoo! like Steiner said if the Mets win "no harm no foul"

And the nickname Inning Endy takes on a whole new meaning.

295- you can have Tomko (though I fully support your cause), but I also get Lofton

The DBacks move on to Atlanta (Cruz vs. Ramirez) and the Dodgers are back home to play the Phils (Floyd vs. Lowe).

My desire for Ron Cey collectibles has drawn me to the game on Friday. Now I wish I would not have bought those tickets b/c of Seo.

We need pitching. Picking through are minor league games each day it is obvious. Our system needs starting pitching fron top to bottom. Our highly praised minor league system has many good potential relievers,(if you believe they should be separated out as low as low A).But starters are far between. This Draft is supposed to be weak except perhaps in pitching. If we can get it right 2 of 3 that would help with our 3 first round picks. We may have the luxury of turning out enough position players.
San Fran has made a living of producing enough pitchers for trade bait. We can perhaps trade for some or buy some as free agents. But proven starters are the most expensive commodity. So it would help to grow as much as possible.

Our system needs starting pitching fron top to bottom.

No! Clearly our system needs more of Tampa Bay's bullpen! What are you smoking?

Brandon Webb has become an ace. If I had to pick a team to dominant after 2007 I'd be picking the Diamondbacks not the Dodgers.
1st C Jackson - solid hitter
2nd J Upton - Griffy like potential
SS S Drew - all star potential
3b Tracy - already a nice player
C Montero - decent catcher
RF Quentin - all around skills
CF C Young - all star potential
LF Carlos Gonzales - all star potential

This is assuming they move Upton to the infield since they already have a great CF prospect in Young. They could also switch Drew to 2nd and Upton to SS. Or trade C Young or Drew for pitching.
They could be getting 60 jacks a year from the keystone combo and spend all their money on pitching since the kids will be cheap.

Will be fun to see how it plays out.

Mayo has his new first round projection up.

and this is a new juicy rumor from it:

Here's what else is out there, rumor-wise: 1. Through the grapevine, there's been talk that Miller will definitely not go No. 1, and his camp will try very hard to ensure that he doesn't go No. 2. I'd have to think he'd go No. 3, then, to the Rays, though there have been whispers that they may try to force him into a free-fall down to the Cubs at No. 13.

he has the dodgers picking Kershaw (yay!) at 7 and Brooks Brown (eh) at 26

http://tinyurl.com/mtmen

Liriano has an interesting through 5 against Hatcher's Hackers

309 more guys like Baez and Carter
I better find something dan good to smoke!

stupid cabrera, breaks up a no hitter on a infield single off the plate.

Looks like the average salary of the 82 SP in the NL who have started at least five games this year is $3.35MM.

Let us take a quiet moment and remember Garrett Anderson, as he was.

311. why in the world would Millers camp want him to pitch for the Cubs? Dont they know thats where ace pitchers go to have their arms blown out by a toopick-chewing demigod.

310- now all they need is some pitching. I thought they moved Upton to CF.
311- There's no way that Miller would fall to 13. If the Dodgers passed on Miller, I'd find Ned, McCourt, and White and tear them to pieces with my bare hands. I will be thrilled if Kershaw falls to us.

317

if anything, they would want miller to come to the dodgers. system loaded with talent, a little think on high ceiling starting pitchers, he could be the #2 for a very dominant dodgers team in a couple of years. But maybe Logan White doesnt want to give out a major league contract.

How many more AB's does Nomar need for his batting average to qualify amongst the league leaders?

318
They did, I just think they are going to be so happy with C Young that they will move him back to the infield.

320- He's 28 shy, right now, but the number required is at least 3.1 per game the team has played; it's not constant. He should be caught up by the end of June, even with regular days off, so long as he doesn't get hurt.

It would be real interesting if the Royals went with Ho-chevar and Andrew Miller fell to the Dodgers. I can just imagine the future interleague matchup. Also, the idea of have both Andrew and Greg Miller on the same pitching staff would be both interesting and confusing.

And it's also plate appearances, not at bats.

Because Nomar draws so many walks!

324- Ah. Sorry. Why would the BA title eligibility be determined by PA? That's irritating.

So he's only 10 PA shy. He could make that up by this weekend, if the Dodgers keep scoring a billion runs (give or take) a night.

325

Two words: Ted Williams

Bonds won the 2004 batting average title with 373 at bats.

And 232 walks.

(325) So as not to penalize a player for getting a lot of walks and sacrifices. Think about it: A team could keep an opponent from winning the title by walking a player, maybe to allow one of their own to win it.

I would like Luke to fall to the Giants so I can have a real reason to dislike him.
If Tampa pulls in Lincoln they will start to have the making of some serious pitching. Kazmir, Neiman, W Davis, Lincoln, and maybe Townsend can get untracked at some point. I can't wait for the day the 50 millon payroll of the DevilRays take down the Yankee's or Redsox.

Thanks for the info. So probably another week or so to make up ten on top of his 3 a game.

330. George will just buy them away by the time they learn to pitch.

Neimann is never going to be healthy.

330- Me too. It'll be especially great if the Yankees and Sox keep playing nuclear arms race with free agents and end up fighting for the Wild Card every year. Will Tampa be able to keep any of its players after a couple years, though?

Regarding the BA title explanations: fine. Humbug, but fine.

333. I dont ever want a rice pitcher in the dodger farm system

The Law Offices of Peter Angelos were just on trolling for mesothelioma victims. I guess things really are bad in Baltimore.

310.

Well, the dodgers won't be too bad either with a potential of:

1B Nomar, very good hitter
2B DeWitt, good hitter for a 2B
SS Furcal, great leadoff hitter
3B LaRoche, all star potential
C Martin, all star catcher potential
RF Drew, very good hitter
CF Kemp-skys the limit
LF Ethier, very good all around player

The line up would probably look something like:

Furcal
DeWitt
Nomar
Kemp
Drew
LaRoche
Ethier
Martin

that's what I call fun to watch. And if we get another great pitcher from the draft to compliment Billingsley, Penny, and Lowe, our pitching would be very dominant as well.

should angel fans be concerned? brandon wood has 70ks in 199 ABs. that is absurd.

336- I am so tired that I read that as the Law Orifices

Hatchers hackers

338. Angel fans won't, but somebody with a brain might be concerned. ;)

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet (although I could find no mention here). The PTBNL in the Ross deal is expected to be named tomorrow, I'm sure we're all very impatient to see who it is. Unsurprisingly, the player will not be from the Reds' 40 man roster.

342- I guess that rules out Brandon Phillips....

Ryan Wagner too. I really wanted him.

Just picking out a few random players:
Drew Anderson, Adam Rosales, James Avery (he looks like a real prospect as does Sam Lecure)

http://www.myspace.com/kelvim

hahahha kelvim escobar has a myspace~!!!

haha, how do you find these things nate. any other players with myspace?

I love his favorite television shows:
"playboy channel definitely"

345- I guess he won't be playing for the Rockies any time soon (see The Griddle for explanation).

344 In case my sarcasm meter is turned off, there are a lot of fake myspace pages up about various celebrities/athletes.

337 Where's Guzman?

311 Woo hoo, I have Kershaw and Brooks Brown as my first two picks for that contest thing. Front row here I come!

I just got some incomprehensible spam with this as the subject line: "I am Dislexic of Borg. Resistance is Futile. Prepare to have your [rear] laminated."

It was a funnier but not-DT friendly word where I've subbed in rear.

Not to be the school marm here, but Aybar is not a good choice at 2B. His footwork there is questionable, at best. Third base is Aybar's best spot. Always has been. Probably always will be.

347.

Traded for a solid pitcher.