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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

In Honor of Matt Kemp and His Fans at Dodger Thoughts
2006-06-03 15:50
by Jon Weisman

Kevin: Ooo. . .

Dave: What's that I see--

Kevin: Ahh. . .

Dave: --On the horizon?

Kevin: Ooo. . .

Dave: I see an eagle, and--

Kevin: Ahh. . .

Dave: I see some bison. These things are America to me. . .

Kevin: [trying to harmonize, but slightly out of tune] America to me.

- Kids in the Hall

Comments (98)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-03 16:08:54
1.   dsfan
What happens to a fundamentally poor SS whose great athleticism begins to fray on the margins?

Witness Rafael Furcal.

Slipshod defense on a near-daily basis, forcing the pitching staff to work harder and harder.

He's on pace to make about 39 errors, which doesn't fully tell how many extra pitches he's forced Dodgers pitchers to throw, or the extra strain he's putting on his own arm with awful fundamentals

His footwork is painful to watch. Really it's a shame.

2006-06-03 16:31:51
2.   Linkmeister
The question is, how do we get Kemp's teammates to begin calling him Bison?
2006-06-03 16:35:54
3.   Bob Timmermann
You need me to come in to the Dodgers clubhouse with a real nice Powerpoint presentation about the differences between the buffalo and the bison.

I hear nothing impresses a highly paid pro athlete than to see a nerdy guy give a slide show about ungulates.

2006-06-03 16:39:32
4.   55Dodgers
2006-06-03 16:45:17
5.   Linkmeister
3 Particularly if there are investment opportunities in said ungulates.
2006-06-03 16:45:24
6.   Steve
Nate, give him to the world. You've done everything you can do for him.
2006-06-03 16:50:20
7.   Bob Timmermann
DBacks ahead 1-0 in Game 2.
2006-06-03 17:14:26
8.   Bob Timmermann
DBacks up 6-0!
2006-06-03 17:16:12
9.   dzzrtRatt
Sadly, I agree on Furcal. His value as a "true leadoff hitter" seems minimal compared to his defensive liabilities, especially since he can't seem to steal bases successfully. I'm hoping Izzy steals his job back; and since Grady isn't Tracy, that won't result in Izzy hitting leadoff.

If Ned could only have foreseen the future:

1B -- Nomar
2B -- Kent
SS -- Martinez until Izturis
3B -- Guzman, Saenz
LF -- Kemp, Cruz
CF -- Lofton, Kemp
RF -- Drew, Repko
C -- Martin

He could have saved himself millions of dollars not signing Furcal and Mueller, and could have used Navarro as trade bait.

2006-06-03 17:25:49
10.   regfairfield
I always hate to be a sample size fuddy-duddy, but it's not like the power that Kemp shown guarantees future success. See: Spencer, Shane, and Maas, Kevin.

I'm certainly happy, but I wouldn't make him the everyday centerfielder yet.

2006-06-03 17:29:32
11.   Uncle Miltie
9- Yea I really hope Izturis steals his job back. I'm sure we'd be leading the league in runs scored with Izturis and his .300 OBP in the leadoff spot. Defense is important, but Furcal is improving and he's a much better hitter than Izturis. Besides, if we keep Izturis that means no Carl Crawford. That would not make me happy.
2006-06-03 17:29:42
12.   bhsportsguy
I believe that the Furcal signing was as much a message to potential free agents and like it or not to the local media. Ever since McCourt got here, everyone was saying that he was going to cut payroll because he could not afford to pay out high salaries.

The Furcal signing came out of the blue, a day or so after the purported negotiations for Giles, it was a signing that truly set the tone for the off-season.

The Dodgers had no viable SS in the system that was ready nor did they have anyone to lead off, that one signing took care of that but also led to Mueller, Nomar and Lofton signing too.

It also gave Ned some honeymoon time because he was now the face of the organization. After signing Furcal, all of sudden the Dodgers were mentioned as a player for every free agent.

Now was the price he paid for Furcal too high, sure but so was the price Stoneman paid for Orlando Cabera and he had a couple of guys closer to MLB than Ned did.

There was no way short of an injury that Dodgers were going have Saenz, Martinez or Robles as an everyday player.

2006-06-03 17:32:16
13.   Bob Timmermann
So how was the game? How were the seats?
2006-06-03 17:36:53
14.   Bob Timmermann
With the DBacks up 8-0, Cox finally pulls John Thomson.

4 1/3 IP, 11 hits, 8 runs.

2006-06-03 17:40:59
15.   sanchez101
I can understand hoping izturis can steal his SS job back for sentimental reasons, but that is not going to happen. even if it was a good baseball decision, and it isnt, Ned isnt going to admit his marquee signing was a mistake and sit a player making 8 figures. Furcal has been an above average defensive shortstop more often than not, izturis has been a banjo hitter more often than not. Combined that with the fact that izturis is coming back from injury and his doctors havent endorsed his playing SS yet.
2006-06-03 17:42:36
16.   JoeyP
Will the Dodgers make the correct decision when Aybar, Martinez, and Izturis are all healthy?

It may seem insignificant, but it'll say a great deal about the state/direction of the franchise.

2006-06-03 17:47:44
17.   bhsportsguy
13 - Thanks Bob, everything worked out well, I was planning to drop you a note after a rehydrated myself, seats were nice though very warm today.

Some observations, no brawls like last night in that area.

Penny had a nice rhythm but worked really hard, he did not have any real trouble but just threw too many pitches.

I think we are seeing our first legitimate batting champion prospect in Nomar since Eddie Murray.

Very small sample size and I would not say he is overmatched because he had a nice at bat when he got the base hit to drive in his first RBI but when Kent comes back, Joel will be the first one sent back down.

However, I like how all the guys have shown good patience as a group, Matt Kemp, who looked like a rusty gate during his first game, is making throwing him a fastball a dangerous proposition.

2006-06-03 17:49:59
18.   sanchez101
I think Guzman will be sent down when Kent is healthy, hopefully soon. Then it gets interesting, who leaves to make room for Mueller and Izturis? My guess is that Aybar goes back to LV because he has a minor league option, but who else goes? I dont think it says a great deal about the state/direction of the franchise; its just some roster flux before someone inevitably gets traded or injured.

If there was someway to trade some combination of Izturis, Mueller, Ledee, Cruz, Baez, and/or Lofton for a middle rotation starter, Ned would be my hero.

2006-06-03 17:57:06
19.   JoeyP
I dont think it says a great deal about the state/direction of the franchise; its just some roster flux before someone inevitably gets traded or injured

Put it this way. If Aybar/Navarro are sent down to Vegas while Izturis/Martinez/Alomar all stay in LA, it'll say alot about the organization. Basically they'll be saying veteran leadership is more important than talent/production. Unfortunately, that decision will hurt the team in the standings.

No need to melt down just yet. There's still hope they'll make the right decisions or someone will be DL'ed, traded.

2006-06-03 18:07:30
20.   bhsportsguy
The Diamondbacks are doing it in almost an exact opposite way as the Dodgers, no real injuries of note, thus aside from Jackson who has been there from the beginning, none of their prospects have had to make the leap.

So in the battle of the prospects, the D-Backs have an not applicable, the Angels have gotten their biggest boost by two guys who have been in their system for a little less than a year while there other prospects have not really had an opportunity to play and the Dodgers have seen some early success by their kiddie corp.

2006-06-03 18:11:20
21.   MartinBillingsley31
If there was someway to trade some combination of Izturis, Mueller, Ledee, Cruz, Baez, and/or Lofton for a middle rotation starter, Ned would be my hero.

I agree with that, none of those guys we need, and the only thing we need is 2 starting pitchers (1 being billingsley) to go along with penny and lowe.

2006-06-03 18:11:44
22.   Johnson
17 Ah yes. Poor Eddie Murray, who led all major league players in season batting average in 1990 but still didn't win a batting title.
2006-06-03 18:13:50
23.   MartinBillingsley31
Put it this way. If Aybar/Navarro are sent down to Vegas while Izturis/Martinez/Alomar all stay in LA, it'll say alot about the organization. Basically they'll be saying veteran leadership is more important than talent/production. Unfortunately, that decision will hurt the team in the standings.

I agree with that.
This JoeyP guy is a good poster.

2006-06-03 18:14:41
24.   sanchez101
19. no it wont, it will be saying that izturis and alomar dont have minor league options. I dont think Martinez has any either. Keeping Aybar up when Kent, Mueller, and Izturis are back will entail exposing someone to waivers or a trade.

If Ned/Grittle cared that much about veteran leadership Martin and Navarro wouldnt have started, Alomar wouldve, and Robles wouldve been called up instead of Guzman.

2006-06-03 18:16:58
25.   bhsportsguy
I think with how Ethier and Kemp are playing and if Grady can manage the playig time of Drew and Lofton, the Dodgers will take their time with both Lofton and Repko, I don't think either of them will be ready before the trade deadline.

If Navarro is swinging a bat then the next step is a rehab assignment, Grady has made it pretty plain that Martin is not going anywhere, I just don't see them keeping 2 young catchers, Sandy has not trade value at all, Navarro may have to go to AAA just to play because he is just too young to sit and play every 5th or 6th game.

The interesting thing will be if Izzy shows that he is ready before Kent is eligible, the maximum amount of time he can stay in Vegas is 20 days so something has to be done within a few weeks.

If Martinez is still hobbled then maybe something will happen to him but it sounds like that is not being considered right now.

2006-06-03 18:19:03
26.   JoeyP
What is Josh Byrnes thinking?
Enrique Gonzalez (who threw 2 gems against the Reds/Braves), was optioned back to AAA after his game today in order to activate LHP Terry Mulholland...

The Dbax deserve some bad karma with moves like that.

2006-06-03 18:43:48
27.   Marty
I'm still willing to give Furry the benefit of the doubt. I really don't want Isturis back. No matter how much we know it's a bad idea, if Isturis takes Furry's job he's batting leadoff, at least when Lofton is not playing and that won't be pretty. And if he's not batting leadoff, he'll be second and it'll be a bunting bonanza.

I also really don't want to see Aybar sent down when Meuler comes back. Maybe they can deal Buell instead.

2006-06-03 18:44:56
28.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 26

Let's hope you're right. Atlanta has rallied--it's now 10-7 Snakes, bottom of the 7th, 1 out, 1 man on 2nd, Mulholland coming in for relief.


2006-06-03 18:46:03
29.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 27

Aren't Furcal's career stats on fielding at least as good as Izturis' too? I don't think we should judge him by just the limited action he's seen this season, which has included injuries.


2006-06-03 18:47:58
30.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 28

And Giles homers off Mulholland. Atlanta now within one run, after having scored 7 runs in the 7th (still only one out) and 2 runs in the 6th.

Arghhh.... I'm so irritated now MLB Extra Innings isn't carrying this game.


2006-06-03 18:48:39
31.   dsfan
Hold onto Izzy unless someone overpays. At the least, he's good insurance behind SS Furcal. Defensively, he'd probably be a 9 on a 10 scale at 2B -- perhaps close to what Orlando Hudson is doing for Arizona.

Two-three starts a week at 2B, one start a week at SS and bench work would be good use of Izzy, and it's plenty of action for a guy coming off TJ surgery.

2006-06-03 18:48:53
32.   dzzrtRatt
geez we have so many prospects playing that I forgot two huge cogs in my list, Ethier and Aybar.

The Dodgers are beyond loaded. They're overbooked.

I haven't lost all hope with Furcal, but he came here advertised as an elite defensive shortstop, and he isn't close to that.

To recap an old DT discussion, I don't think Izturis is a .300 OBP hitter when healthy. He hit solidly in 2004 and in the early going of 2005. Then he got hurt, but per the emerging Dodger tradition, the injury was not diagnosed for, what, six weeks? During which time his average plunged. A healthy Izturis doesn't equal Furcal at bat, but the increment is not enormous.

Furcal probably keeps his job, but that will eventually force the Dodgers to trade Izturis at the low end of his market value.

2006-06-03 18:54:03
33.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Mulholland didn't get an out, but the Snakes are still up by one run.

Entering the eighth...


2006-06-03 19:02:52
34.   sanchez101
Nomar has another streak going, 99 ab's since his last K, according to ESPN.
2006-06-03 19:06:41
35.   the OZ
Regarding Thomson giving up 8 runs, it's the second game of a doubleheader. It's debatable, but certainly not indefensible, to leave him in to chew up as many outs as he possibly can especially when the game seems so out of reach. I don't know how many pitchers the Braves used in the first game, but you have to assume that the bullpen is at least a bit short.

I can't criticize Cox for leaving him in too long in that circumstance.

2006-06-03 19:09:55
36.   MartinBillingsley31
I know i'm sounding like a broken record, but ned overdid it with the non-superstar/non-difference maker veterans.
What happens when all the guys on the DL come back?, the prospects get sent down?
Kent, ledee, izturis, mueller, repko, navarro.
Then what happens when or if billingsley gets called up?
I mean you can say its great to have depth, but you can also say its not if it blocks prospects.
I'm just sold on a lineup of drew, kent, nomar, furcal, martin, kemp, ethier, aybar.
I'm also sold on a bullpen of gagne, broxton, saito, kuo, (i'm not sold on beimel, seo, or baez) but there is nobody left in the minors for the pen, and i'll take beimel, seo, and baez over hamulack and carter, altho i don't like baez contract.
And the starting rotation, arguably the most important thing for a team come playoff time, i'm only sold on penny and lowe (billingsley would be nice).
2006-06-03 19:14:44
37.   Bob Timmermann
The Braves used four pitchers in the first game and one of them, Chad Paronto, threw one pitch.
2006-06-03 19:22:11
40.   MartinBillingsley31
tdogg must be 3dogg from

Sorry i posted here and brought along some friends so to speak.

2006-06-03 19:26:00
43.   MartinBillingsley31

Banned because of narcs.

I respect jon too much, i'm out.

2006-06-03 19:30:21
45.   sanchez101
36. i understand your sentiment, but the problems your describing are the best "problems" you can have. Ned didnt "over do it" when it comes to the veterans, they arent blocking anybody theyre all under short term contracts. You cant assume that the young players would be playing like this, look at the Angels, I think they wished they had brought in some short-term mid-tier veterans instead of resting on the likes of Kotchman, Mathis, and McPherson to contribute in a big way. Also, its no garauntee that the rookies will still perform well for the rest of the season, they will almost certainly struggle. Ned and Grady have made it very clear that they wont let these guys waste away on the bench, so I dont see how their development could be threatened by the likes of Mueller, Izturis or Lofton. If they arent going to play everyday in the majors, they'll be sent back to the minors.
2006-06-03 19:33:24
46.   Nick Iyengar
"Inside the Dodgers" is reporting that Kuo will be recalled from AAA and Hamulack will be demoted prior to tomorrow's game. Sorry if someone already mentioned this.
2006-06-03 19:37:44
47.   ranchero
Matt Kemp: Jon - how many Dodgers have hit one homerun in each of their first three games? Duke Snider? Gil Hodges? Steve Garvey? Eric Karros? I doubt that any of them have but I do not know. Has any Dodger ever done so? Has any major league player done so? If so who? Did any player who hit one home run in each of his first three games ever have a bad career? Is one homerun in each of a player's first three games a new stat?

As for Kent - heal him and then trade him.


2006-06-03 19:42:18
48.   natepurcell
I always hate to be a sample size fuddy-duddy, but it's not like the power that Kemp shown guarantees future success. See: Spencer, Shane, and Maas, Kevin

its not just now, its his minor league slugging track record. his slugging the past 3 years:
2004- SAL=.499 (423abs) FSL=.568 (37abs)
2005- FSL=.569 (418abs)
2006- SL= .528 (199abs)

so he has a history of hitting for plus power at a very young age.

2006-06-03 19:43:00
49.   ToyCannon
My brother who worked for the Braves hated Furcal and his defense and I never understood what he was talking about because the numbers showed him being an above average defensive SS. Now I understand, but I'll take his lousy defense and his offense over the great defense and the lousy offense of Izzy. For all you who are complaining you might check the record. Were doing pretty good and alot of it has to do with Rafy and Lofton setting the table for Nomar and Drew to drive them in. Cruz has been doing his part. Right now we have a very efficient system and they all have their parts. The players who don't have a part are the ones on the DL. JMO
2006-06-03 19:44:28
50.   ToyCannon
Plus neither Spencer or Mass were 21, they were players who had paid their dues in the minors and got hot. I don't expect Kemp to stay hot but what I do know is that I know who the CF will be in 2007.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-03 19:49:27
51.   ToyCannon
I've had more fun going to the games starting with the Friday shellacking of the Angels since the 74 team came of age and we destroyed the NL West in April. I've always loved watching the kids play which is sometimes why I like spring training more then the real season but this year I get to see the kids play and I get to see the kids produce at ridiculous levels. It is gonna end and probably with a bang but I'm sure going to enjoy it while it's happening.
2006-06-03 19:50:20
52.   natepurcell
laroche in his last 122ABs
352/462/533 5hr 23bb 13k

his current BA is .301 with an OBP north of .400

his power is heating up. We still have talent percolating down there!

2006-06-03 19:58:29
53.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 52

If LaRoche looks to be ready for the show, perhaps we should trade Aybar when his value is highest? He does seem to be playing over his head right now, and when Mueller comes back, we'll have another option if LaRoche can't meet expectations. I still concerns about Aybar's power in the long term.


2006-06-03 20:00:10
54.   natepurcell

why not just move aybar to 2b? Dewitt is far from a sure thing and at 2b, aybar's power would be more then adaquate.

2006-06-03 20:01:36
55.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 54

Is Aybar's defense okay at 2B. I thought we moved him to 3B because of a perception he was subpar at 2B?

And we've still got Kent on the books for another season.


2006-06-03 20:03:05
56.   Bob Timmermann
Kemp hasn't homered in his first three games as he played in games on the road.

I don't know if any player has had a streak of longer than 2 straight games to start a career with home runs.

Keith McDonald of St. Louis had home runs in his first two ABs and they were in different games.

2006-06-03 20:04:17
57.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 55

I also forgot about Little's scheme of putting Aybar in the OF, which might work for this year at least, if Ethier and Repko prove to be flashes in the pan, or if Drew goes down again. I think Kemp's legit, though, due to his minor league numbers.


2006-06-03 20:05:19
58.   ToyCannon
Aybar is going to be very valuable this year with his ability to play 3b/2b and actually hit. This team is looking more and more like a team that can make some noise, no need to remove important cogs. The future is now.
2006-06-03 20:05:43
59.   Gen3Blue
I think it is worth remembering that right now we are in what old Red called the catbird seat. We don't have to trade anyone at the low end of their value. I know we only have 40 roster spots, but that is enough and we haven't given any up to stupidity.(like give a major league contract to a newbie like Hochevar) At various times, like the trading deadline, the playoffs, and the GM meetings, there will be needy teams, and if we have to shed a few players we can do it in lopsided trades. Often we have been in the opposite position, and any good execs can see this.
We don't need anything, as badly as many,many teams. Can anyone think of something we really need?
2006-06-03 20:10:58
60.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 58 59

We need some help in the rotation. Really, I'm in no rush to trade anyone, and I like Aybar's bat very much, but we will have a roster logjam with Mueller and Izzy coming back. If Mueller and LaRoche both look to be good options at 3B, then why not put Aybar in a package for a good starter--he should have tremendous value, the way he's hitting, and the fact he's making the minimum.


2006-06-03 20:13:37
61.   JoeyP
Can anyone think of something we really need?

Starting pitching.
22555 isnt going to cut it.
Hopefully OP pitches like he's shown in the past.

2006-06-03 20:14:14
62.   das411
Hey! Here's a fun quote:

"Definitely," Lieberthal said, when asked if he would consider signing with the Dodgers. "You can play and live at home, and you can see your family a lot more."

2006-06-03 20:22:20
63.   JoeyP
54. Exactly Aybar's a keeper. Let him play 2nd for the next 5yrs for the Dodgers. 22-23yrs old and is OPS'ing over .900 in his first 220 AB's in the big leagues. You dont trade guys like that.

Izturis has the label of "All-Star, Gold Glove"..He's probalby easier to deal. He's not going to supplant Furcal at SS, with what they are paying Furcal. He wont play 2nd with Kent already there and Aybar tearing things up. He cant play 3rd or OF. Izturis has very little use to the 2006 Dodgers unless he's replacing Lucille.

2006-06-03 20:24:33
64.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
So, we're carrying 12 pitchers, with Kuo now taking Hamulack's place.

In the near term, we should have Kent coming back, and then Izturis and Navarro. In the longer term, Repko, Mueller, and Ledee.

For Kent, I think we should send Guzman back down. He's doing okay, but we don't really need him right now, and I think it'd be better for his development. To make room for Izturis, unless Kuo is lights out, I suppose he would be the most obvious person to send back down and go to 11 pitchers. Or Beimel when he falls back to earth. I'd love to DFA Baez, but I don't think that will happen.

Navarro should definitely take Almoar's place on the merits, but Ned will think that we're paying him 600k for veteran leadership, and I think Navarro could get more seasoning in AAA.

I think we might as well release Ledee now, but Repko and Mueller are more tricky. There's a decent chance one of our OFs will go down by the time Repko's ready, and we might have space for Mueller the same way with Kent old and Nomah injury-prone. We could also get rid of Martinez, with Izzy backing up Furcal at SS. I also think Repko at this point is worth more than Cruz, although the jury really is still out on that.

Anyhow, it should be interesting to see how things turn out. For a starter, I do think we should be willing to move some of our "surplus" pieces, but I don't mind hoarding them in case of injury.


2006-06-03 20:27:56
65.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 63

I'd love to deal Izzy, perhaps to the BoSox, where he can re-join Cora, but coming off an elbow injury, I don't know if any trade partner is going to be satisfied with seeing only the limited playing time we should be giving him when he comes back. Really, I think Izzy should hardly play at all, with our other options on the roster.


2006-06-03 20:29:13
66.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 62

Why we would want to do that is beyond me, though.


2006-06-03 20:30:40
67.   Steve
62 -- That's high comedy. Emphasis on the high.
2006-06-03 20:45:21
68.   JoeyP
High comedy is being had at the Dbax board.
Optioning Enrique Gonzales to make room for Terry Mulholland...
And Russ Ortiz is coming back.
Maybe the washed up vets will derail the Dbax.
2006-06-03 20:48:33
69.   D4P
I see that Old Friend Adrian Beltre slugged his 3rd HR of the season today.
2006-06-03 20:49:05
70.   Gen3Blue
From past experience, I doubt we are going to have any roster jamb ups. As vets start coming back, sadly there may be space by continuing DL epasodes. Also, youngsters hitting below .220 should really get some more at bats at AA/AAA. Problems of this sort often fade away, and it is neurotic to worry too much about them.
2006-06-03 21:18:03
71.   Steve
And now Two-And-Kuo is coming back. There's something for everyone. It's like Woodstock.
2006-06-03 21:21:49
72.   D4P
the Dodgers have decided to option reliever Tim Hamulack to Triple-A Las Vegas

What if Las Vegas refuses to exercise that option...?

2006-06-03 21:23:51
73.   D4P
Poll on

Who has been the Dodgers' best offseason acquisition?

Danys Baez
Andre Ethier
Rafael Furcal
Nomar Garciaparra
Kenny Lofton
Brett Tomko

2006-06-03 21:27:12
74.   Steve
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?
2006-06-03 21:33:33
75.   Underbruin
73 - What, they don't have Lance Carter on there?
2006-06-03 21:35:13
76.   Jon Weisman
Who has been the Dodgers' best offseason ack-uisition?

I kid.

2006-06-03 21:37:57
77.   Steve
Because you love.
2006-06-03 21:47:35
There is no need to trade any rookies because of roster space issues, but Little has to continue to play them consistently (3-4 times a week). If one of the rookies sits on the bench for more than a couple days consecutively, he should be sent back down immediately.

A trade should be executed only if it includes solely VIPPs (veteran injury-plagued plugs, trademark?) or a comibnation of VIPPs and no more than one rookie/prospect. The primary goal is to acquire an above-average starting pitcher (difficult) and/or relieve salary (more options). Be creative as there are many options available. Those who currently classify as VIPPs include Perez, Tomko, Baez, Carter, Kent, Mueller, Lofton, Cruz Jr., Ledee, Martinez, Alomar Jr., and Izturis. Wow, thats a long list of possible additions by subtractions.

Those are Neddy's instructions until the trading deadline.

2006-06-03 21:59:16
79.   Blu2
Wow, that's twelve possibilities, half the roster. And you still left off Seo!
2006-06-03 22:12:02
80.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 78

You won't get a good starter for just VIPPs, though, with the exception of Kent, and I have no desire to trade him.

When DePo got Penny and Choi, it took an All Star Heart-and-Soul catcher and what was supposed to be the best setup-man in the NL. We're not going to get a starter any better than Bills for stop-gap veterans only signed through this year.


2006-06-03 22:34:58
79- Seo can stay and he and Gagne can yell at people from the dugout together.

80- I totally agree about it being difficult to find a good starter on the trade market and thats why I included the possiblity of including one rookie/legit prospect. But, to emphasize, no more than one and bring back someone at least as good as Penny/Lowe.

I disagree about Bills though. I know hes very good but I dont think we should relate the other prospects' early success to him. Bringing up a starting picher is a whole different beast. There is a significant possiblity that his growing pains will most likely render him less than average this year.
On the other hand, if he comes up and does well quickly, he could have one of those honeymoon periods where he is dominant (a la Fernando, Nomo).

2006-06-03 22:35:50
82.   Fallout
74 Steve

I read your thing,
But you cannot sing.
So next time,
Just do a Rhyme.

2006-06-03 22:40:08
83.   dzzrtRatt
80 We're not going to get a starter any better than Bills for stop-gap veterans only signed through this year.

Oh, I dunno if that's true. There's a little team over Bronx way that has experienced a couple of devastating injuries to outfielders, with no credible successors in AAA. If you were George Steinbrenner, would you rather play Bubba Crosby or Kenny Lofton? And while they don't need Izzy or Furcal, the Yanks are addicted to the 3-way deal.

2006-06-03 23:14:03
84.   Steve
There once was a man from Tampa Bay
Who blew a save every other day
He suckered Colletti
The D-Rays got Tiffany
We'd be better off with Yanni.
2006-06-03 23:25:53
85.   Andrew Shimmin
84- Boo!

Unless we're pronouncing Yanni, Yah-NAY, these days, your limerick does not meet the minimum basic rhyming requirements.

I'm glad to see that I finally missed a troll outburst. I was starting to worry about what I'm doing with my life, having watched the last few in real time.

2006-06-03 23:29:16
86.   Andrew Shimmin
Oh, also: shame on anyone who doesn't realize how awesome Aybar is, and how he must be retained at any expense. Yes, yes, it's still a small sample, but he's put up nearly identical BAs and OBPs in a Dodger uniform the last two years. And his SLG is up 30 points this year! He should be playing third, when Kent comes back, even after Mueller does.

Unless I'm wrong. Which is always possible.

2006-06-04 00:01:15
87.   Steve
There once was a man from Tampa Bay
Who blew a save every other day
He suckered Colletti
The D-Rays got Tiffany
While Baez expands his ERA


There once was a man from Tampa Bay
Who blew a save every other day
He suckered Colletti
The D-Rays got Tiffany
And all we got was two DFAs

2006-06-04 00:44:29
88.   Andrew Shimmin
87- Redemption. Not so good as vengeance, but still sweet.
2006-06-04 00:56:37
89.   natepurcell
from rosenthal

The White Sox are more likely to trade prospects than one of their veteran starters to get the right-handed setup man they need. Rival scouts continue to be impressed by the team's overall approach as it defends its World Series title.

hey kenny, dodgers have a right handed reliever who saved 41 games last year and he is only 28 years old. you are practically getting a second closer! we just want that middle reliever with the 5+era. you know, the young one that wants to be in your rotation but there isnt any room. he seems like a nuisance.

2006-06-04 01:44:13
90.   bhsportsguy
I'll assume that a lot of the misgivings about the Tampa Bay deal is more about philosophy than the players involved because even though Carter has been a bust and Baez has definitely had his issues, Edwin Jackson still cannot get anyone out in AAA and Chuck Tiffany, who wasn't doing so well in the Southern League until he was put on the DL in early May with was only described as a "shoulder" problem.

Tiffany is going to have go on the D-Rays 40 man roster at the end of this year and Jackson will be out of options and they will have to make a decision on him by next spring.

So in the end of all this, will any of the players involved still be with their teams next year, we will wait and see but while I understand the concern about the philosophy not all of the players in the Dodger system are going to end up in Dodger Blue.

Was Atlanta right in trading Marte in a deal for Renteria or how about Boston for including Henley Ramirez for Beckett and Lowell and then turning Marte over to Cleveland in the deal for Crisp.

Everyone will be able to make their analysis after the season but for now, let's hope that those kids can find their way and especially that Tiffany recovers from whatever he is ailing from.

2006-06-04 02:47:05
91.   JoeyP
Its never about what you trade, its always about what you get back.
The Dodgers traded prospects for middle relievers. Thats the prob.
2006-06-04 04:45:10
92.   Claire Malone-Evans
Lets trade Matt kemp and Danys Baez for former all-star Shawn Estes.
2006-06-04 05:46:02
93.   Sam DC
Nats notes -- here's an oddy -- "Rookie 3 Ryan] Zimmerman hit seven home runs during his three years at the University of Virginia. Entering Saturday's action, Zimmerman has nine home runs for the Nationals this season." From notes article this am.

(self-indulgent moment). At breakfast, my 5 year old asked if the Nationals won -- told hem they won on a come-from-behind homer. Then he asked if the Dodgers won -- told him they did and they win with a bunch of young rookie playing great. Then he thought for a minute and said "Do you think they called to congratulate each other?"

2006-06-04 07:15:26
94.   Sam DC
gack -- commenting before breakfast. That should start "[Rookie 3B Ryan] Zimmerman . . ."

Has Bob started lobbying for Zimmerman to add another "n" to his name yet do think?

2006-06-04 07:54:49
95.   DXMachina
83 If you were George Steinbrenner, would you rather play Bubba Crosby or Kenny Lofton?

After how miserably Lofton got along with Torre when he was with the Yanks in 2004, I doubt anyone in the organization wants him back.

2006-06-04 08:15:28
96.   Marty
I forget that Lofty has played for just about every team. I'm afraid that if he and Terry Mulholland ever bump into each other the universe will explode.
2006-06-04 09:34:03
97.   Blu2
(96) Ok, how about the twins (Cruz and Ledee) then to the Yankees?
2006-06-04 09:58:28
98.   Bluebleeder87


2006-06-04 10:07:10
99.   Bob Timmermann
Zimmerman should change his first name to Bob and then he will become truly famous.
2006-06-04 10:08:41
100.   Vishal
[93] i have zimmerman in the DT fantasy league. he was doing well enough that about a month ago i renamed my team "the zimmerman note". i thought it was clever. unfortunately my team is doomed because of bad pitching and a lack of closers.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-04 10:17:51
101.   Bob Timmermann
A leadoff homer by Jeff DaVanon and the DBacks are off and doing their General Sherman number on Atlanta again.
2006-06-04 10:43:36
102.   Linkmeister
93 That's cute.

100 But Western Union just closed up shop!

2006-06-04 11:29:40
103.   Fallout
84 Steve

Even though "your limerick does not meet the minimum basic rhyming requirements" it was funny.

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