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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Some Improvement for Gagne
2006-06-24 17:00
by Jon Weisman

The nerve pain in Dodger reliever Eric Gagne's throwing arm has diminished over the past four days thanks to the use of neurontin, a drug designed to work on the nervous system, according to Dodger head athletic trainer Stan Johnston.

"He's improving," Johnston said during a pre-Dodger Thoughts Night Out interview Friday. "We're waiting for him to have no pain."

Gagne seconded Johnston on both counts, saying that he is feeling better but that he knows he has to take his time.

"(I) want to make sure everything's fine, and everything's clean in there," Gagne said.

Johnston suggested that Gagne could begin an exercise program as soon as Monday if the pain is gone. The Dodgers say that Gagne's arm is structurally sound, and the nerve issue is the only thing preventing Gagne from returning to the mound. In April, Gagne had a nerve in his right arm removed after complaining of pain during the first week of the 2006 season - his second surgery on the arm inside of 12 months.

Gagne said that he felt a little stiffness warming up in the bullpen before his last game June 6, but that it was nothing that he hadn't felt in the past when he was healthy. But he thinks that when he entered the game, he overthrew a changeup - "rolled it over too much" - and tweaked the nerve. Subsequent treatment with anti-inflammatories did not help.

"It got better and we started some exercises, then it got sore again," Johnston said.

The switch to neurontin seems to have brought renewed optimism, however cautious. If the progress continues, Gagne can resume exercises before moving forward, according to Johnston.

Gagne added that he isn't sure that a rehabilitation assignment in AAA Las Vegas will be necessary, and that he could be on the Dodger Stadium mound in July.

"It's not a bad injury," Gagne said. "It's just a nagging injury."

Still, it has been a long, impatient road for Gagne, whose injury spiral began in March 2005 when he injured his knee during a Spring Training pepper drill. When asked how Gagne has handled his time on the sidelines, Johnston said sympathetically, "not very well."

"He's very frustrated," Johnston said. "He's such a competitor. He lives to be a big part of the team."

Interviewing Gagne, it was easy to be swayed by the feeling that he knows his body, that he will be as patient during this rehabilitation as he says, that he will warm up as carefully in the future as he promises and ultimately, that he's right to believe he will help the Dodgers this season. Walking away, it was hard not to feel paranoid that preventing further injury was beyond his control.

Can he really be on the mend? Why couldn't he be on the mend? Fool me once and all that.

The implication was that further rest after Gagne's pain disappeared was unneccessary, but the question I didn't ask is whether that is a certainty.

Overall, Gagne and Johnston seemed quite humbled by the struggle.

* * *

Tonight's Game

Comments (255)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-24 17:20:07
1.   Daniel Zappala
Wow, congrats on the interview Jon! Fantastic, as usual. Was this a first -- an online writer (granted, with credentials) being granted an interview with a major league player? If you're able to share, I'd be curious how you managed to arrange it.

Did Eric Gagne have any idea who you are?

2006-06-24 17:22:36
2.   dzzrtRatt
Interesting. Neurontin is an epilepsy drug, which is often also prescribed -- off-label -- for post-operative pain, as well as bipolar disorder, anxiety disorder and other psychiatric syndromes, and for some of the symptoms like pain associated with multiple sclerosis.

Two people close to me have taken neurontin. One found it very helpful in easing the severity of post-operative pain. The other found it less than useless, and it made her extremely sleepy. Go figure.

2006-06-24 17:30:11
3.   Gagne55
I <3 Gagne when he is healthy.
2006-06-24 17:40:34
4.   Jon Weisman
1 - No, not a first.

Josh arranged the interview and probably told him I was with - for which I'm doing another story. It was the first time I met Gagne. He was very nice.

I can't translate 3.

2006-06-24 17:41:43
5.   Andrew Shimmin
<3 = Heart

You just tilt your head a little. . .

2006-06-24 17:50:21
6.   Jon Weisman
5 - Ah, thanks.

I will admit to feeling awkward about putting some quotes on DT when I introduce myself as being from It just seems too complicated when I'm down there to say that I write for both. I do hope they don't feel misled.

If more Dodgers had heard of DT, it would be easier to mention it. But I don't want to have to start out an interview by explaining it.

2006-06-24 17:52:53
7.   Uncle Miltie
No Drew? I think they are actually resting him too much. At least Lofton isn't playing again. I love Cruz batting 2nd against a LHP.

The Kings traded Pavol Demitra. I guess they are rebuilding. At least I still have the Dodgers, Clippers, and UCLA basketball.

The VGoW has a much different approach at the plate this year. Maybe with all of the downtime, he watched a lot of video and realized that he needed to be more patient. He also could have seen how his hero Omar Vizquel walks at a decent rate. I think he realized that because he has no power, he needs to get on base more.

2006-06-24 17:55:48
8.   PadreJeremy
Demitra got traded? He was their best player. Being a Kings fan is as frustrating for me as being a Padre fan. That new Kings GM is so overrated.
2006-06-24 17:57:22
9.   overkill94
Just to clarify, in the photo from last night's game that scareduck posted, I'm credited as underdog when in fact I should be Nick (Overkill94).

By the way, what does IC1 and IC2 mean for the ladies I brought?

2006-06-24 18:07:08
10.   Uncle Miltie
8- they did get the Minnesota Wild's best prospect and he is probably NHL ready. They also got a 1st round draft pick. It might be a good deal, but it's kind of upsetting to see the Kings trade a dynamite player like Demitra. He's one of the best snipers in the NHL.

It also clears up some money for FA. Still, I'm not sure how many would want to come to LA to play with a bunch of young guys (who are mostly unproven).

2006-06-24 18:11:33
11.   D4P
I'm guessing IC = Eye candy
2006-06-24 18:13:37
12.   Steve
I imagined Bob with less hair and ToyCannon as older. I have no idea why.
2006-06-24 18:16:28
13.   Uncle Miltie
Why was the Yankees GM at the Dodgers game? Potential blockbuster in the works?

Just kidding Jon.

2006-06-24 18:18:56
14.   Bob Timmermann
I have a hat on in the photo! For all you know, I could look like Matt Williams.
2006-06-24 18:22:04
15.   D4P
I was literally just going to say "Maybe Bob's bald underneath the hat."
2006-06-24 18:27:33
16.   D4P
BTW: Any reports on Jack Wilson stemming from last night's scouting expedition?
2006-06-24 18:31:19
17.   Steve
16 -- According to the big board, he hit .583 as a high schooler for (Taft?, ECR? Can't remember)
2006-06-24 18:37:15
18.   ToyCannon
Sorry Overkill, I don't know why all the sudden I got you mixed up. 11 was on the nose.

Without the hat I am much older. Shocking what a hat does for diminishing the perception of age. If you wear the hat backyards it will drop another 5/7 years off. Other then Don I'm sure I have at least 10 years on everyone else who was there.

2006-06-24 18:42:37
19.   ToyCannon
Teams shouldn't throw LHP at the DOdgers if they can help it. Cruz, Furcal, Izzy all SH who rock LHP compared to what they do against LHP. Then throw in Kent, Kemp, Nomar, Martin, Tomato and it is suicide to throw a lefty at us. I have no idea what the Dodger record is against LHP, just seems we should do well against them.

Course when the Twins throw Santana and Liriano at us next week none of that will matter as they are both so on their game right now it is scary.

2006-06-24 18:54:27
20.   Bob Timmermann
Jack Wilson went to Thousand Oaks High I believe.
2006-06-24 18:59:40
21.   overkill94
19 I think they actually have a sub-.500 record against lefties. If I remember correctly, Vin said they were 6-8 against them going into their win against Washburn, leaving them at 7-8 now.
2006-06-24 19:02:11
22.   Bob Timmermann
Aybar has been called up from the minors!

Erick Aybar.

2006-06-24 19:23:29
23.   overkill94
Hmmm, quiet night for DT
2006-06-24 19:26:05
24.   Gen3Blue
I thought Dt was broken, it was so slow. BTW,anyone have a link to the pictures?
2006-06-24 19:28:29
25.   Greg Brock
Sorry. I was typing away for half an hour before I realized I was in Independent Women's Forum.
2006-06-24 19:30:30
26.   Gen3Blue
As Vin said, we have trouble with lefties.
At least we seem to rest Drew against lefties.
2006-06-24 19:31:35
27.   JJoeScott
7 - At least the Kings still have Bibby and Artest.

Seriously .... I'm going to raise my hand as one who hasn't watched a hockey game since before the strike and can't remember who's still on the Kings. Such is life.

2006-06-24 19:32:42
28.   JJoeScott
(Oh - I used to go to 5-6 games a year at the Forum; fewer at Staples, but I still watched.)
2006-06-24 19:34:45
29.   Gen3Blue
27 I raise my hand too. And it is unlikely I'll will ever watch another NHL game. I'm from Ma. if that helps explain it.
2006-06-24 19:36:14
30.   lakerican
I am sleepy tonight. Beer is not helping. Let's get some runs to see if I wake up.
2006-06-24 19:36:54
31.   Greg Brock
Boom off the wall! Nice job Bison.
2006-06-24 19:38:01
32.   overkill94
Kemp likey fastballs
2006-06-24 19:39:39
33.   JJoeScott
What's the over/under on number of days that Izturis remains a Dodger? I'm going to say "15" ... and the deal is for Eric Hinske to play 3B.

Just wanted to call my shot on this one.

2006-06-24 19:40:14
34.   Sam DC
Sheesh -- just back from Baltimore. Four adults, five kids 5 and under. Spent 10 am to 4 am running around the inner harbor, then to the Nationals/Orioles game. Waited out one rain delay. Left -- soaked to the bone -- when it delayed again halfway through the ninth tied 2-2. Get kids dropped off/down to bed, turn on computer to see what happened. Bammo -- Cordero blows it in the bottom of the ninth. Alas. The Nationals are making sure my son has a deep appreciation for frustration and loss.
2006-06-24 19:42:19
35.   Sam DC
Hmmm . . . I also see my "host country shockingly knocked out in the Round of 16" pick did not pan out.

I liked this line: "Why couldn't he be on the mend?" I'll hope for the best.

2006-06-24 19:43:41
36.   Greg Brock
34 You're son needs to learn the lesson taught to us by Homer Simpson:

"Trying is the first step towards failure"

2006-06-24 19:44:11
37.   Greg Brock
2006-06-24 19:45:15
38.   JoeyP
THe Dodgers dont need a 3rd basemen.
Aybar/Saenz would be one very productive platoon. If Izzy is traded for anything other than starting pitching, its going to be a sad turn of events.
2006-06-24 19:47:36
39.   Gen3Blue
2006-06-24 19:47:55
40.   overkill94
33 I'm gonna go with Izturis to the Red Sox for Dustin Pedroia on July 15th.
2006-06-24 19:48:46
41.   JJoeScott
I don't think there are any trading partners for Izzy that would involve pitching -- that is, the teams who need SS (Tor, Min) don't seem as if they've much to give up.

I would guess, however, that Aybar is trade bait for pitching.

Again, just calling a shot.

2006-06-24 19:49:56
42.   Mr Customer
35. Sam, I'm feeling the same way. At least were tied (assuming your pick #2 was correct)

Did anyone see the Ethier play? It looks a little complex on Gameday. Getting his RBIs the hard way, I guess.

2006-06-24 19:51:41
43.   Greg Brock
42 He hit a single up the middle, then got back-picked/caught in a rundown after rounding too far off the bag.
2006-06-24 19:52:42
44.   JJoeScott
42 - It was a run down - no play at the plate, so the catcher (geez - I don't really know who's catching for PIT anymore!) gunned it to first; Ethier got caught in a walk-down.
2006-06-24 19:52:52
45.   Mr Customer
40. Somehow, Neddy does not strike me as a Pedroia afficionado, though I've seen stranger things.
2006-06-24 19:54:04
46.   Daniel Zappala
Bartolo Colon should not be pitching for the Angels yet.
2006-06-24 19:54:31
47.   Sam DC
I won't say too much about the Os/Nationals game. Frank Robinson finally dropped Royce Clayton down from second -- to third! And with the game tied, no one on, two out, in the top of the eighth, he pinch hit for his DH Matt LeCroy with Old Friend Daryle Ward. I think this was a lefty/righty thing, plus Ward has hit 3 PH home runs this year, but really, how can you be pinch hitting for your DH in a tie game with no one on base. And isn't there likely to be a higher better use for Ward -- like PHing for Royce Clayton? Headscratchers, but not huge quibbles -- certainly not what cost the Nationals the game.
2006-06-24 19:55:21
48.   JJoeScott
46 - True. He's not right. Almost time for the Angels to play for next year anyway ...
2006-06-24 19:58:47
49.   Greg Brock
Jose Bautista is very popular among Pirates pitchers. Not really.
2006-06-24 19:59:27
50.   JJoeScott
Olmedo Saenz > Boss Hogg against the Duke boys.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-24 19:59:44
51.   overkill94
That's gotta be one of the highest base hits you'll see
2006-06-24 20:02:17
52.   Gen3Blue
May be a mistake to let Duke settle in.
Especially if the offense figures it is done tonight.
2006-06-24 20:05:53
53.   gcrl
they are pretty happy about the demitra deal out here in wild country. o'sullivan is a good player with some parental issues, but he is a guy to root for. i'm gonna miss luuuuuuuuuuuc next year, for sure.

in other news, i went to the twinks/cubbies game at the dome tonight. 42000 strong indoors, but i'd say half at least were cubs fans.
inexpicably, there was a lot of cheering for jacque jones - twins fans should remember what cubs fans have learned: he's not good.
prior looked ok at first, but was throwing straight fastballs at about 93 most of the time. the second time through the lineup, most of the twins had a bead on him.
boof bonser looked good, but he was facing a pretty anemic lineup. what a trade terry ryan made with the giants...

2006-06-24 20:09:25
54.   herman
Dewitt hit 2 homers today (If anyone cares). I guess he going to keep the ball off the ground.
2006-06-24 20:16:01
55.   herman
News Flash: Ethier can hit.
2006-06-24 20:18:45
56.   herman
Is anyone here?
2006-06-24 20:19:45
57.   gcrl
it looks like the twins series will line up with silva, liriano and santana going for the twins. gardenhire has said that he would like to break up liriano and santana, but i can't see him giving lohse a start instead of one of the leftys.
the twins are playing well right now, despite their own injury and rookie issues. mauer is solid, and morneau is hot, but rookies jason bartlett and terry tiffee have also been impressive lately. i guess nick punto is an upgrade over tony batista (who wouldn't be). it should be a fun series to watch.
2006-06-24 20:20:51
58.   overkill94
56 Pretty dead night, maybe everyone's worn out from going to last night's game.
2006-06-24 20:22:11
59.   lakerican
56 zzzzzzzzz
2006-06-24 20:22:53
60.   regfairfield
How many shots to the track have the Pirates hit tonight?
2006-06-24 20:24:43
61.   D4P
Gameday says 3.
2006-06-24 20:27:49
62.   overkill94
Izturis is looking very Izturis-like tonight at the bat. I want the Ichiro-like singles machine from the last few days back ;)
2006-06-24 20:30:43
63.   Nick Iyengar
Based on his past couple of starts, I was worried that Sele was heading down the slippery slope back to mediocrity. I had been attributing Sele's good showing tonight to the Pirates' supposedly anemic offense, but I checked and found that Pittsburgh is actually in the middle of the pack in MLB as far as runs scored. I'll have to give Sele (and Tomko) a little more credit than I initially thought due.
2006-06-24 20:34:29
64.   JoeyP
The Pirates have a terrible hitting approach.
2006-06-24 20:36:48
65.   Gen3Blue
Everybody must be worn out today,and that includes the D's. Our inability to get to a lefty for over five innings bodes poorly. It looms invisable but heavy in the air--we have to soon go into our bull-pen! Sele is in the 80's in pitches, and sometimes with his velocity.
2006-06-24 20:37:10
66.   JoeyP
Make it 4 warning track fly balls. Sele's actually still pitching one of his better games. 4ks, 9-5 GB/FB. He's pitching much better than Tomko pitched last nite IMO.
2006-06-24 20:37:24
67.   overkill94
63 Also, Sele pitches a lot better at home - 1.75 ERA vs. 4.71 ERA away in 4 starts each going into tonight. Seems like a pretty good Lima impersonation.
2006-06-24 20:37:33
68.   D4P
Coming into tonight's game, 6 of the 9 players in the Pirates' lineups were OPSing over .800. Not as shabby as we might have thought.
2006-06-24 20:41:30
69.   JoeyP
Olmedo is 8-10 off of Zach Duke.
This guy really needs as many ABs as possible vs LH's.
2006-06-24 20:41:57
70.   D4P
Seo sorry:

Although Seo initially received credit for a save Friday night when he allowed four runs in four innings of relief, official scorer Don Hartack ruled that Seo did not pitch effectively and no save was awarded.

2006-06-24 20:43:57
71.   JoeyP
Kemp better stop or those saying he was in a 26AB slump, or that he couldnt hit LHP, may have to change their tune.
2006-06-24 20:44:21
72.   overkill94
My fantasy team loves Ethier tonight
2006-06-24 20:45:11
73.   overkill94
70 My fantasy team doesn't like that news. Why is that guy still on my team?
2006-06-24 20:45:18
74.   Nick Iyengar
67 Hey, if Sele can do an impression of Lima's 2004 for the rest of the season, that would be great, and a lot more than anyone expected in Spring Training.

Sele's poor K/9 and K/BB still have me expecting a (sharp) regression on Sele's part. For example, before tonight, he hadn't struck out a batter since June 4th. However, I think most of us expected Lima in 2004 to eventually fall apart, and he didn't.

Well, he did, but luckily he wasn't on the team anymore when the implosion came.

2006-06-24 20:46:51
75.   JoeyP
Tracy would love Andre Ethier.
Ethier is Mr. RISP.
2006-06-24 20:47:56
76.   JoeyP
Tracy sure does know the right time when to pull hurlers.
2006-06-24 20:49:44
77.   Greg Brock
2006-06-24 20:50:56
78.   Nick Iyengar
Maybe Ethier is earning himself some more PT tonight. Can't say I blame Little too much for leaving Ethier out of the lineup so often lately, since Cruz and Lofton need their AB's too, but I'd like to see more of Ethier.
2006-06-24 20:52:06
79.   MSarg29
Grady deserves some credit starting Ethier against a lefty. It's exciting to watch him hit a quality lefthander like Duke.

I will continue to call Duke a quality lefthander if only in appreciation for his performance last year for my fantasy team.

2006-06-24 20:53:35
80.   Mr Customer
74. I like to look at it in perspective. If Sele's our number 4 or 5 starter, now that big B is on the roster, every win he gives us above the 500 mark is pure gravy. And, it's not as if he's young enought to tempt someone into signing him to a big contract for dumb luck.

If he's still a Dodger when karma comes calling, the only concern we will have is who will take is spot, not what we'll do without him.

2006-06-24 20:53:56
81.   JoeyP
Russ Martin may never have a better month in the big leagues than this past June.

BA- .386
OPS- 1.027

2006-06-24 20:53:59
82.   D4P
Looks like Ned waited too long to trade Izturis...
2006-06-24 20:55:12
83.   Bob Timmermann

I find that decision by the official scorer to be utterly and completely full of the stuff I have to clean out of the litter box.

Seo had a huge lead to work with. He didn't walk anyone. He struck out four. What does he expect.

On May 28, Julian Tavarez of Boston was given a save in this game with this sequence:
After 8 innings, Boston led Tampa Bay, 5-0, then:
Top 9th: Tampa Bay
- R. Seanez relieved T. Wakefield
- J. Gomes walked
- J. Gomes to second on fielder's indifference
- T. Wigginton struck out swinging
- R. Branyan lined out to first
- T. Lee walked
- J. Paul walked, J. Gomes to third, T. Lee to second
- G. Norton hit for T. Perez
- J. Tavarez relieved R. Seanez
- G. Norton struck out, reached on passed ball, J. Gomes scored, T. Lee to third, J. Paul to second on passed ball
- J. Gathright walked, T. Lee scored, J. Paul to third, G. Norton to second
- J. Lugo walked, J. Paul scored, G. Norton to third, J. Gathright to second
- C. Crawford singled to left, G. Norton scored, J. Gathright out at home, J. Lugo to second

4 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors
Tampa Bay 4, Boston 5

Was Jay Seo less "effective" than Don Hood was in this game in 1982?

That official scorer should be strung up from the highest yardarm!

Well, the Pirates are in town and I'm feeling nautical

2006-06-24 20:56:10
84.   Tommy John
I can't believe that Ethier (or as I call him "Ehh-Thee-A") ever sat on the bench so that Joel (Kumar) Guzman could strike-out in his place.
2006-06-24 20:56:25
85.   JoeyP
Martin missed the whole month of April. But there's a case to be made for him making the all star team.
2006-06-24 20:59:11
86.   Claire Malone-Evans
Bryan Morris made his debut tonight for the Ogden Raptors. 3 innings, 0 runs, 2 hits, 3 walks, 4 strikeouts and 1 wild pitch.
2006-06-24 21:00:53
87.   D4P
Can you explain why "entering the game with a 7 run lead" was even considered a Save Situation™ in the first place?
2006-06-24 21:01:18
88.   Greg Brock
85 It's probably going to be Heart and Soul, Estrada, and Barrett as the alternative (if one of those can't play).
2006-06-24 21:01:25
89.   Tommy John
I think Martin needs to get some rest during All-Star break and possibly smoke some weed (legally) in his socialist outpost i.e. Montreal.
2006-06-24 21:02:38
90.   JoeyP
2006-06-24 21:02:57
91.   Mr Customer
Brox must have some pent-up frustration from the last two innings he pitched. He's pretty abusing tonight.
2006-06-24 21:03:19
92.   Greg Brock
Blast out of nowhere on our neighbor to the north from the purveyor of arm surgeries.
2006-06-24 21:03:31
93.   Mr Customer
er, abusive...
2006-06-24 21:04:17
94.   JoeyP
Martin has better stats that Loduca, and I cant see Barrett going either unless the Cubs just need a representative. His 10 game suspension cant help his case.

McCann's a shoe in.
Then probably Estrada.

But if they carry 3, I think Russ has a great chance.

2006-06-24 21:04:51
95.   Nick Iyengar

"If he's still a Dodger when karma comes calling, the only concern we will have is who will take is spot"

Agreed. But who does take his spot? Perez? Seo? Not a pretty picture when Sele comes back down to earth. But I'm enjoying Sele's performance while it lasts.

2006-06-24 21:05:57
96.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels have scored four in the seventh to tie the DBacks.
2006-06-24 21:06:55
97.   overkill94
This Kemp kid's pretty good
2006-06-24 21:07:05
98.   Bob Timmermann
Vin really needs to be told that Torres bad game for the Giants was in 1993.
2006-06-24 21:07:22
99.   overkill94
Oops, I thought Vin said Kemp not Kent, wasn't watching the screen.
2006-06-24 21:07:34
100.   Tommy John

My comments about Canada are made in the spirit of Colbert. The are Colbertesque if you will. Don't get the wrong idea about me :)

Tommy John is my nom de guerre

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-24 21:07:46
101.   Mr Customer
95. Yeah, that's the rub. I just think it hurts less to replace your Buick than your Benz.
2006-06-24 21:08:16
102.   JoeyP
Kent's having a good series.
Looks like the Buccos will be going for 10 in a row tomorrow afternoon.
2006-06-24 21:08:52
103.   Disabled List
I absolutely cannot believe Salomon Torres is still a major league baseball player.

That 1993 game vs. the Giants is still one of the fondest baseball memories of my adolescence.

2006-06-24 21:09:03
104.   regfairfield
I thought about voting for Martin, when I filled out my All Star Ballot last night, but Michael Barrett has been just as good offensively, and didn't miss a month.

If they have to take three, it would be LoDuca from the vote, then Barrett and McCann are more deserving.

2006-06-24 21:09:05
105.   Daniel Zappala
96 I'd be flipping between the Angels and Dodgers, except the Angels are playing at Arizona. That means the game is blacked out for all those Diamondback fans in Salt Lake City who should be driving 11 hours to Phoenix to see the game.
2006-06-24 21:09:38
106.   D4P
7-0...Bring Seo in for the save!
2006-06-24 21:11:19
107.   Daniel Zappala
105 Note to MLB: that would be like blacking out Dodger games in Ashland, Oregon.
2006-06-24 21:11:46
108.   Bob Timmermann

I cited precedent in my case for Seo. Note the reference to the landmark 1979 Don Hood vs. The Kansas City Royals case.

2006-06-24 21:12:57
109.   Mr Customer
Well, barring acts of god, chances look good for a 1st place tie tonight.
2006-06-24 21:13:35
110.   MSarg29
105 - These black out rules are ridiculous.
2006-06-24 21:14:29
111.   JoeyP
I still think Martin is more deserving that Barrett. Barrett is a terrible defensive catcher. His RATE2 is only 82. Their offensive numbers are similar, but then again Barrett gets to hit in a more friendly environment. Plus Martin hasnt suckered punched anyone to cost his team 10 games.

I'd definitely take Martin ahead of Barrett. The only two I can see making a case for are Estrada and McCann.

2006-06-24 21:15:42
112.   Daniel Zappala
108 I hadn't realized that Tiant (one of my favorite players as a kid, based purely on baseball cards) pitched for the Indians, Yankees, Pirates and even the Angels after pitching for the Red Sox.
2006-06-24 21:16:54
113.   Mr Customer
107. I still can't believe that we're still in the local blackout time-machine. Is there anyone out there that still believes that keeping fans from seeing the game boosts attendance? That just not very smart.
2006-06-24 21:18:34
114.   Bob Timmermann
Tiant pitched for Cleveland before he joined the Red Sox though. He broke in with Cleveland.

Tiant had a 1.60 ERA in 1968! Teammate Sam McDowell was second at 1.81.

2006-06-24 21:18:52
115.   overkill94
So who looks to be the laughable all-stars this year? Whoever the Royals send will probably a joke (might be old friend Grudzielanek). Besides that I can't really think of another team that doesn't have at least one deserving guy.

Any guesses on Dodger reps? Nomar will probably make it on reputation even though the 1B corps is stiff competition (Pujols, Berkman, Howard, Delgado, etc). Penny and Lowe both have a pretty good chance of making the trip (at least one will be chosen). Martin has a slight chance. Kent could be a reserve simply because NL 2B aren't very good. Besides that I don't think anyone else has a chance.

2006-06-24 21:19:05
116.   Greg Brock
108 Case law is cited with a "v." If you hadn't mocked my inability to spell Hiddink, I would have let it go ;) You know you're my idol, Bob.
2006-06-24 21:19:24
117.   Mr Customer
109. SD scores two with no outs in the 8th. I'll repent from my hubris if anyone thinks it will help.
2006-06-24 21:19:41
118.   Bob Timmermann
Back to back homers by the Padres make it 6-4 Seattle in the 8th.
2006-06-24 21:19:43
119.   Daniel Zappala
110, 113 Just as long as they don't realize that I can get to LA faster than Phoenix. It would be a shame to add SLC to the LA market, and then all Dodger home games would be blacked out here!
2006-06-24 21:19:46
120.   JoeyP
113. You are exactly right. Plus, baseball could extract higher advertising revenue if out of market games werent blacked out. Imagine all the tourism commercials local business could produce if they knew those spots would be seen out of market.

The only times blackout restrictions make sense are in the case of the NFL I think.

2006-06-24 21:20:32
121.   Bob Timmermann
So how about Hood v. Kansas City Royals, AL 1979?
2006-06-24 21:21:34
122.   Daniel Zappala
114 I claim an editing error. I knew he broke in with Cleveland, but messed around with that paragraph too much before submitting it.
2006-06-24 21:21:36
123.   Greg Brock
Brilliant. It was still hilarious...As always.
2006-06-24 21:21:40
124.   Mr Customer
Beimel. Ugh...
2006-06-24 21:22:20
125.   Daniel Zappala
It just sounds too weird for Scully to say "picked by Ramon" and not mean Martinez -- I mean the real Ramon Martinez.
2006-06-24 21:24:28
126.   Mr Customer
125. Shhh. Ramon Martinez does not exist.
2006-06-24 21:24:59
127.   Greg Brock
121 I believe the judge in that case was The Honorable Elihu Smails.
2006-06-24 21:25:05
128.   Daniel Zappala
117 Your hubris was in not capitalizing "God". He doesn't care too much about baseball games. Repenting should help, but you'll have to see your local priest, rabbi, or minister about penance or other possible remedies.
2006-06-24 21:25:23
129.   alex 7
re: 107 I'm in Ashland, Oregon. Great place. Perhaps more DTers were watching the College World Series like I was the last few hours. Pretty good game.
2006-06-24 21:26:25
130.   Gen3Blue
I'm trying to get optimistic with a streak starting, but my cynic is japing at us beating Pittsburg. I think we may have the most runs scored in the NL, but part of me is saying--yeah, you can't beat a good team,but my can you pile on cripples.
Hope my inner cynic is wrong--
Yeah --its a bitch---she's a Barracuda!!
2006-06-24 21:26:36
131.   Bob Timmermann
Seriously, what sort of good did that official scorer by not giving Seo a save? All he did was just show off that he saw a word in the rule book. He did not apply common practice. I don't think there has EVER been a case before of a pitcher who qualified for a save under the three innings rule who was not given it.

You know what I hate? Those activist official scorers who keep trying to make new scoring rules from the press box. The official scorer should follow the original intent of the people who wrote the rule book!

2006-06-24 21:26:44
132.   Daniel Zappala
126 I refuse to use "pet" names like Lucille or Wendy or Marsha or whatever it is. I can't keep track of all the DT slang.
2006-06-24 21:27:52
133.   Greg Brock
Strict contstructionist scorekeeping. I like it.
2006-06-24 21:27:53
134.   overkill94
Ahhh, a nice little 3-game series is just what the doctor ordered for a struggling team.
2006-06-24 21:28:58
135.   3upn3down
Not that there is a typical lineup these days, but assuming a very common lineup for spots 3-8 is Nomar G, Drew, Kent, Kemp, Ethier, Martin; do you prefer watching the first three or last three come to bat?
2006-06-24 21:29:29
136.   alex 7
let's get Sandy and his .358 average into the All-star game. Most of the country doesn't even know who the Dodgers starting catcher is anyhow.
2006-06-24 21:30:00
137.   Daniel Zappala
129 Ashland, Oregon is a fantastic place. I watched the 8th and 9th of the CWS and was disappointed that Oregon State lost. They tried the Jim Tracy approach, bunting the potential tie run to 2nd with no outs, and it didn't work. I have no ties to the Beavers, particularly since I lived in Eugene, but I'm a Pac-10 guy through and through.
2006-06-24 21:30:21
138.   Mr Customer
128. Nah, I just did that as to not exclude Vishnu, Ahuramazda, Thor, et al. No disrespect to the Big Guy intended. perhaps "acts of gods" would be more appropriate, if not grammatically ambiguous.

I did repent twice, just for good measure though.

I guess we'll all know how it turns out.

2006-06-24 21:30:52
139.   alex 7
Tracy has seen that play made before.
2006-06-24 21:32:24
140.   JoeyP
If Martin and Kemp continue to OPS over 1.000 for July, then probably the latter 3.
2006-06-24 21:34:20
141.   Daniel Zappala
136 Excellent. That would be exactly like most fans, voting for the name recognition + current average combination.
2006-06-24 21:36:06
142.   JoeyP
Is this Saito's first game since last saturday?
2006-06-24 21:36:20
143.   Daniel Zappala
138 That conjures up images of the Greek gods playing with the fates of men. Do you think perhaps they are behind Gagne's string of injuries? Maybe he dared to go on a date with Aphrodite?
2006-06-24 21:36:50
144.   D4P
Where's Seo?
2006-06-24 21:39:41
145.   Greg Brock
143 I hope the Gagne/Aphrodite offspring turn out a little more fortunate than the Hermes/Aphrodite offspring did.
2006-06-24 21:40:04
146.   Bob Timmermann
9-4 Seattle in the 9th.
2006-06-24 21:41:02
147.   Gen3Blue
Those activist official scorers. What's a
god fearing country to do. I don't know what we'll do without moral leadership in this country on week-ends. I'm sorry but I wish for 11 in a row to help the D's
2006-06-24 21:41:37
148.   Steve
139 was written ten minutes ago; I haven't been watching the game or been here; I have no idea what happened -- and yet I feel like I know exactly what happened.
2006-06-24 21:42:17
149.   Bob Timmermann
I'm asking the Retrosheet guys to check to see if any pitcher ever pitched in a situation like Seo and DID NOT give a save since the rule was implemented in 1969.

I'm betting the answer is no.

2006-06-24 21:42:59
150.   Mr Customer
143. He doesn't seem girly enough for Aphrodite. The smart money's on Zeus. He gave a Hephaestus that nasty limp, back in the day.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-24 21:43:05
151.   Greg Brock
Bob is on a mission, and I respect that.
2006-06-24 21:43:15
152.   regfairfield
It's funny how everyone notices Ethier in a game where he had a couple of squib singles, but people happened to be on base, but no one cares in games where he's performed much better.
2006-06-24 21:43:36
153.   Suffering Bruin
That was fun to watch. I mean, schadenfreude is not something I usually revel in but this is pretty darn fun.

This season will be Jim Tracy's last as a major league manager, notwithstanding the hearty recommendations of Gagne and Saenz.

2006-06-24 21:44:18
154.   Daniel Zappala
Bob is becoming the patron saint of scoring minutiae.
2006-06-24 21:44:25
155.   Bob Timmermann
On the Yahoo! boxscore there is one part that lists the line as "Save: Seo (0)"
2006-06-24 21:45:34
156.   JoeyP
152. Chics dig the long ball...and RBI's.
2006-06-24 21:45:56
157.   D4P
"Who Will Save Your Seo?"

Bob Timmermann, that's who.

2006-06-24 21:46:07
158.   Daniel Zappala
Shawn Green pinch-hit and struck out to end the bottom of the ninth. 4-4 Angels and Dbacks.
2006-06-24 21:46:18
159.   Bob Timmermann
At first they came for the phony tie game score in an exhibition game, and nobody cared.

Then they gave a pitcher a save in a game in which he retired no batters, and nobody cared.

Then they took away a save from a pitcher, who through four innings, and nobody cared.

2006-06-24 21:46:59
160.   overkill94
I like Ethier and think he looks like a fine player, but would it be wise to try and trade him while his value is so high? Maybe in a package for someone know what, there aren't many pitchers out there I'd want to trade for, what else should we be looking for, pitching prospects?
2006-06-24 21:47:19
161.   JoeyP
Its a good thing the Mariners scored 3 runs in the top half of their 9th.
2006-06-24 21:47:22
162.   Daniel Zappala
Acts of gods in progress. SD has the bases loaded, no outs, 9-5 game.
2006-06-24 21:47:28
163.   Nagman
Don't look now but the Padres are mounting a comeback. No outs, bases loaded, one run in. 9-5, Mariners. Putz appears to not have much.
2006-06-24 21:47:36
164.   Greg Brock
157 D4P wins
2006-06-24 21:49:17
165.   Daniel Zappala
Aagh! Bob! Not you with the through-threw mix up! I like the sentiment, though. Someone has to hold the line.
2006-06-24 21:49:18
166.   regfairfield
160 I agree, if we have to trade any one of our prospects, I'd trade Ethier. I'm still not sold on him as anything other than a fourth outfielder, and his value is through the roof. The trade might hurt the 2007 Dodgers a little, but other than that, I don't think there will be much consequences to trading him.
2006-06-24 21:49:54
167.   Daniel Zappala
Before you know it, they'll be giving a fielder two errors on one play!
2006-06-24 21:50:07
168.   overkill94
The usually reliable JJ "what a" Putz is being singled to death by SD, 9-5 with the bases loaded and nobody out.
2006-06-24 21:50:55
169.   Daniel Zappala
Hey, I just realized I can watch the Padres game. DirecTV to the rescue.
2006-06-24 21:51:31
170.   Bob Timmermann
The two errors on one play is a miscarriage of justice on the level of the Scottsboro Boys case.
2006-06-24 21:52:26
171.   JoeyP
The ump gave Putz a little help.
Always appreciated from this side of the aisle.
2006-06-24 21:52:43
172.   Greg Brock
170 I hear googling across the Dodger universe.
2006-06-24 21:54:15
173.   D4P
Sit down, and shut up.
2006-06-24 21:55:22
174.   Bob Timmermann
Already taking care of one of them.
2006-06-24 21:55:47
175.   Jon Weisman
83/131 - I agree with you.
2006-06-24 21:56:01
176.   D4P
The wrong one...;)
2006-06-24 21:56:19
177.   Jon Weisman
170 - I disagree with you.
2006-06-24 21:56:34
178.   overkill94
Wow, the Cardinals must feel pretty bad about the Mulder/Haren trade about now. Mulder is dead last in ERA for qualifying NL pitchers while Haren is rounding out the top 10 for the AL. That doesn't even take into account the other prospects thrown into the deal.
2006-06-24 21:56:48
179.   Jon Weisman
Nuts, D4P broke up my double play.
2006-06-24 21:58:06
180.   D4P
I hate it when that happens. Sorry about the spikes...
2006-06-24 21:58:11
181.   Daniel Zappala
Mariners close it out, 9-5.
2006-06-24 21:58:39
182.   alex 7
the lesson, once again, is to not make trades with Billy Beane.
2006-06-24 21:59:50
183.   Greg Brock
177 I'm guessing this is the wrong time for my "Pirates/Wounded Knee" analogy.
2006-06-24 22:00:16
184.   Daniel Zappala
Or the lesson could be never ever trade a pitching prospect. TINSTAAPP, except for those you trade away who go on to fame and stardom. See Martinez, Pedro.
2006-06-24 22:00:30
185.   Mr Customer
162. Whew. Suplication granted! I was sweating having to defeat thirteen more mighty warriors to get into Valhalla.
2006-06-24 22:05:45
186.   JoeyP
Cesar Izturis- 2-10-80
Maicer Izturis- 9-12-80

Has it been explained how these two are brothers? How would this be biologically possible?

2006-06-24 22:05:55
187.   Bob Timmermann
Just so everyone knows, I was not invited to Nicole Kidman's wedding.
2006-06-24 22:06:43
188.   Bob Timmermann
The Izturies are half-brothers.

Papa Izturis was generous with his time to women.

2006-06-24 22:07:19
189.   Greg Brock
186 Different Mammies. Active Daddy.
2006-06-24 22:07:34
190.   Jon Weisman
186 - Same dad, different moms.
2006-06-24 22:08:18
191.   Jon Weisman
Okay, I'm officially a step slow. But at least I didn't dive on my nose like that Arizona outfielder just did.
2006-06-24 22:08:23
192.   Bob Timmermann
I am not Maicer Izturis's daddy!
2006-06-24 22:08:37
193.   Icaros
Do we know which Izturis brother is the b-tard?
2006-06-24 22:09:12
194.   Bob Timmermann
If Figgins had hit that ball to center, that would have been an inside-the-park homer. As it was, Salmon had an easy triple.
2006-06-24 22:09:13
195.   Greg Brock
Yes, but are you Cesar's mammy? I just don't trust that it's you in yesterday's pics.
2006-06-24 22:09:18
196.   overkill94
Eric "Montgomery" Byrnes just bonked his shnoz pretty bad on a ball he would have made a diving catch on if he had extended his arm out all the way (kind of a misjudged amazing catch).
2006-06-24 22:10:08
197.   Bob Timmermann
A writer in the Arizona Republic says that the DBacks problem now is a lack of veteran leadership.
2006-06-24 22:10:21
198.   Greg Brock
193 You're a bad boy...Tsk, Tsk. I believe the politically correct term is "Unwanted One"
2006-06-24 22:10:56
199.   deburns
121 et al. My contracts professor, who was a snot from Harvard who was a clone of Professor Kingsfield of the Paper Chase, insisted that we refer to a case as A against B, A "vuhsus" B or A and B, but never A "vee" B. He was also probably a CIA plant (I kid you not). (Since I went to Yale, I may have a problem with Harvard).
2006-06-24 22:11:26
200.   Icaros

Yeah, that's a lot nicer.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-24 22:12:21
201.   Bob Timmermann
There was a story in the Times last year where Cesar Izturis talked about riding out somewhere with his dad when he was a teenager to go pick up Maicer from whomever was raising him. Cesar didn't know he had a brother for a while.

The Molina brothers are pretty close in age, but at least it's more than 9 months between Bengie and Jose.

2006-06-24 22:13:54
202.   deburns
I also want to note that while Saenz is often referred to as a "professional hitter", and often looks like one, Ethier, who is just a kid, looked very professional to me when he stroked those two 2RBI singles tonight. The fact that they were not smoked is not the point; they didn't need to be. Isn't there something to be said to doing what needs to be done, rather than some abstract ideal of a great hit? I assume one of the earlier comments was not saying that Ethier was just lucky.
2006-06-24 22:14:19
203.   JoeyP
I doubt the Izturis' grew up in the same household, if they have different mothers. Usually mothers dont give up their kids to philandering husbands.
2006-06-24 22:17:46
204.   JoeyP
The Dbax have lost 16 of 18, but remain just 3 games out of 1st.
2006-06-24 22:20:25
205.   Claire Malone-Evans
Is T.J. Nall considered a prospect ? I know he is 25 years old and pitching in AA, but he has 72 k in 59 innings and only 11 bb. That is mighty impressive !
2006-06-24 22:20:46
206.   regfairfield
202 The first one was a solid hit, the second one was a broken bat dribbler that found a hole in the drawn in infield.
2006-06-24 22:32:11
207.   Linkmeister
Isn't that two nights in a row that Martin's hit a little squibber just over the second baseman's head for an RBI?

Bob, I'm surprised you're not in N.O. for the convention. There are a whole lot of librarians blogging it; links from the ALA site. Mom had a great time reading them this afternoon.

2006-06-24 22:34:28
208.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not a member of ALA. I'm going to SABR next weekend and I'll be blogging from there.

I'm not a member of any library professional organization. I even tried to quit my union!

2006-06-24 22:35:23
209.   Linkmeister
A non-joiner, huh? ;)
2006-06-24 22:38:13
210.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't like ALA's stances on the double error.

My union told me they wouldn't back me on the Jae Seo situation.

2006-06-24 22:41:43
211.   Greg Brock
Try backing out of the LA Unified union. The words like "horses", "heads" and "silk sheets" come into the conversation when discussing UTLA.
2006-06-24 22:44:08
212.   thinkingblue
the lesson, once again, is to not make trades with Billy Beane.

I think the Ethier trade has worked out pretty good...

Also, why does everyone STILL call Ethier a fourth outfielder, DESPITE his excellent preformance?

2006-06-24 22:47:52
213.   Linkmeister
Tough bunch. I'd have thought Will Manley might have backed you on the saves, though.
2006-06-24 22:58:14
214.   thinkingblue
OK, on, my post was just deleted for saying that people need to know what they're talking when they call dodger talk, and that the dodger talk host should know more about his own team.

And I wonder why there aren't as many people posting there...

2006-06-24 23:07:03
215.   Greg Brock
214 For some reason, that reminded me of the "Free Speech Zone" on Arrested Development that consisted of a 6' X 8' metal cage, three hundred feet from the military base.

Then I realized that AD is gone, and I cried a little bit inside.

2006-06-24 23:26:45
216.   the OZ
This is for SB:

2006-06-24 23:57:42
217.   Steve
215 -- COME ON!
2006-06-25 00:07:00
218.   ToyCannon
Minor League Update:
Lance Carter gives up 3 runs in the bottom of the 9th as we lose 6-5. Loney gets 2 more hits but Aybar takes an ofer. Hanrahan got the start and was less then impressive
with 1 K and 3 walks in 6 innings.

Win 10-0 with TJ Nall tossing a one hitter over 7 innings with 10 k's. Brazell had a big day with a HR and 5 RBI. Abreu had 3 hits, Hu 2, and Ruggiano 2.

DeWitt slammed 2 more HR's as VB wins 6-5. Xavier Paul collected 2 more hits. For some reason ELbert is now pitching out of the bullpen.

They lose 9-7 but Perdroza hits #17 and Denker gets #1.

Win again and are now 4-1.

THey win 11-2 with number one pick Bryan Morris making his debut throwing 3 innings, 0 runs, 4 k's, 2 hits. Jensen and Martin
pick up 3 hits a piece. Martin is a catcher so maybe we can have our own Martin/Martin like the ole Molina/Molina even if ours aren't related.

2006-06-25 05:13:12
219.   Sam DC
Apparently, Cesar Izturis is outable. Alas.
2006-06-25 05:31:16
220.   Sam DC
Makes no sense:

*Duquette said the Orioles aren't close to signing first-round draft pick Billy Rowell, the ninth pick overall. The Orioles are offering a $2 million bonus. Rowell, who has committed to attend the University of Alabama, is asking for $2.1 million.

The Orioles are basing their offer on the $2 million bonus signed by Drew Stubbs, the eighth pick by the Cincinnati Reds. But seventh pick Clayton Kershaw signed a $2.3 million deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers. Based on the bonus amount suggested by the commissioner's office, Rowell slots in at the $2.1 million he is requesting.*

How can the $100K difference between the slides, where the player is only asking for slot, be "not close"?

2006-06-25 05:33:14
221.   Sam DC
Bob, anyone -- the paper is telling me that if the Os/Nationals game was rained out after the top of the ninth, they would have had to replay the whole thing (and not just resumed play from the spot where they stopped play). ??

In the 33 inning game, they postponed completion game (though I realize that was minor leagues).

2006-06-25 06:00:55
222.   Sam DC
Willie Gault ran a 10.72 100m yesterday at age 45.
2006-06-25 08:04:18
223.   Bob Timmermann
The minors have different rules for suspending games than the majors do.

I believe the game could have suspended if the rain delay had been after 1 am. But they would have to have started playing and then have the game suspended.

But they don't like to suspend games much either.

2006-06-25 09:14:03
224.   thinkingblue

So, Hanrahan went 6, and allowed 3 right?

Also, is Elbert hurt? Why is he throwing out of the bullpen?

2006-06-25 09:46:21
225.   King of the Hobos
224 Elbert's probably fine, they are just trying to limit his innings. They did the same thing with Billingsley last year. After throwing 115 innings last year, the Dodgers probably don't want Elbert to throw more than 140-150 innings at most this year.
2006-06-25 09:56:48
226.   thinkingblue
Do they limit innings on young pitchers because they want to limit the risk of injury?
2006-06-25 09:57:28
227.   thinkingblue

Well, how many hits did Joel give up?

2006-06-25 09:58:20
228.   thinkingblue
Perdoza, what kind of prospect is he, and what does BA say about him?
2006-06-25 10:14:11
229.   ToyCannon
He was a 2005 3rd round pick. He's already 22 so he should be smacking Low-A pitching. He seems to have excellent power and OB skills as he has on OPS over 1000 but he also strikes out way to much for a 22 year old in low-A which diminishes his prospect status. I expect the reason they have kept him in low-a is because of the K problem. He had a reputation in college as a terrible defender in RF but I have no idea how he's doing in that department in the minor leagues.
2006-06-25 10:27:54
230.   Bob Timmermann
Lots O'rain on the East Coast. The Red Sox and Phillies are postponed and will try again tomorrow when they are both off.

The Yankees and Marlins have a doubleheader scheduled and that's delayed. And it's a day-night doubleheader to boot. Those two are both off on Thursday.

2006-06-25 10:46:33
231.   thinkblue0
Also, why does everyone STILL call Ethier a fourth outfielder, DESPITE his excellent preformance?

because that's what he is: a 4th outfielder.

2006-06-25 10:54:34
232.   Greg Brock
I'm wondering if the DT gang caught wind of this article, and what the myriad opinions will be.

2006-06-25 11:09:56
233.   Bob Timmermann
Power outage at the Trop: DRays and Braves have stopped for the time being.

It's the Game of the Day!

2006-06-25 11:10:12
234.   D4P
Lots O'rain on the East Coast

Tell me about it.

2006-06-25 11:11:39
235.   Bob Timmermann
The power outage at the Trop is not Kevin Costner related either.
2006-06-25 11:13:08
236.   D4P
The ItD blog notes that today's infield includes a whopping 4 shortstops.
2006-06-25 11:14:20
237.   D4P
Players hitting ahead of Russ Martin in the lineup include:

Lucille II

2006-06-25 11:20:25
238.   Bob Timmermann
At the SABR convention this coming weekend in Seattle, various big league teams have donated items to raise money for a silent auction.

The Dodgers donation?

An autographed baseball by ....

wait for it ....

Odalis Perez!

So, how much should I bid?

2006-06-25 11:21:37
239.   D4P
I'd suggest you stay silent at the auction.
2006-06-25 11:24:08
240.   dzzrtRatt
Re: the Lasorda article in 232:

If a&&holes and homophobes were excluded from the MLB Hall of Fame, they could fit all the trophies in a two-car garage. But maybe the Canadians want to promote their well-known affinity for politeness.

From this article, it sounds like Lasorda could be a good candidate for a Kitty Kelly-type biography.

2006-06-25 11:29:54
241.   Marty
I didn't think there was any argument over Lasorda being one of the biggest jerks in baseball. I've never liked the miserable SOB.
2006-06-25 11:30:19
242.   Bob Timmermann
I sent John the link, but I would add that Richard Griffin is the Jay Mariotti of Canada. Or maybe the Skip Bayless of Canada.
2006-06-25 11:32:06
243.   Suffering Bruin
232 The article is filled with innuendo and the ever-so-effective passive voice to imply dark deeds by Lasorda.

To say Tom Lasorda is far from perfect is not a news flash. But here are some things I know:

a) His son was gay and Lasorda loved his son. Yes, he denied his son died of AIDS and perhaps denied he was gay but if we read the Peter Richmond article closely, we see a father and mother who loved their son dearly. Lasorda grieved terribly for the loss of Tommy Jr.

b) Lots of "alleges" in the article. Glen Burke alleges, Billy Bean alleges... I've told some gay jokes in my time. I've also told some straight jokes, sexist jokes, ethnic jokes... I don't know if that makes me a racist, sexist homophobe. In the world of the guy who wrote the article, I probably am and I hate my gay sister. Whatever...

c) Lasorda has said often and loud that his greatest moment in baseball was winning the Olympic gold medal.

Mike Scioscia said he thought he was the most intense competitor of anyone he knew--until he met Tommy Lasorda. I imagine that intensity could rub people the wrong way. I imagine that if you ask Fred Claire and Bill Russell, they would have less than fond things to say about Lasorda. But he was a great manager, he has done some wonderful things for this game and if I ever need someone to make a motivational speech to a team I'm coaching, Lasorda is on the short list.

I was never embarassed to have Lasorda as a manager of my favorite team. I disagreed with him plenty of times but I'll take Tom Lasorda over a dozen Jim Tracy's.

2006-06-25 11:40:42
244.   Sam DC
I know Rob has strong feelings about Lasorda and his written a few posts on these issues. They are probably readily findable at 6-4-2 archives, though I am chasing too many kids around the house (OK, only 2, but they're saking for lots of chasing at the moment) to look.
2006-06-25 11:43:56
245.   Greg Brock
"I disagreed with him plenty of times but I'll take Tom Lasorda over a dozen Jim Tracy's."

I believe the term is "Damning with faint praise." Knowing next to nothing about the journalist in question, I submitted the article to gauge the response of my beloved DT brethren.

As for me, my feelings about Lasorda are reflected in the words of Irwin M. Fletcher, A.K.A. Jane Doe..."Hey, that's you and Tommy Lasorda...I hate Tommy Lasorda."

2006-06-25 11:46:19
246.   DaveP
243 - I think the "Lasorda is a great motivator" is a little overblown. I knew a relief pitcher on one of Lasorda's last dodger teams who said they were so sick of hearing the same stories over and over.
2006-06-25 11:47:15
247.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 245

I think it's common enough knowledge among better-informed Dodger fans that Tommy isn't actually a saint. Around here, there was plenty of bitterness over his reported involvement in DePo's firing.

That being said, SB has a point when he says the article in question wasn't well, very well supported, on the face of it. It can hardly be construed as very firm evidence of anything, especially with all the conflicting accounts SB has brought up.


2006-06-25 11:49:07
248.   Sushirabbit

Yeah. There's maybe lots not to like, but at the same time why can't Lasorda just be "devoutly Catholic" as opposed to homophobic? Bob's comment makes that story a little more understandable... everybody has their own fish to fry, axe to grind, whatever, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's good to know.

Personally, I no longer visit 6-4-2 no matter how good the baseball talk, because it's been clear "my kind" are not wanted there.

2006-06-25 11:49:43
249.   Greg Brock
I tend to believe any article, no matter how well supported and sourced, that helps to reinforce my own beliefs. I learned this by watching cable news. It works for me.

That is a joke.

2006-06-25 11:52:32
250.   Bob Timmermann
I believe that Richard Griffin was an employee of the Expos in 1981 also.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-06-25 11:54:48
251.   MartinBillingsley31
4 slappies in the lineup today.
Martin is going to feel real lonely batting right in the middle of the 4 slappies plus the pitcher.
Hope ethier muscled up and nomar/drew got their on base game going on for a couple 3 run bombs from ethier.
2006-06-25 12:18:52
252.   overkill94
A bit random, but does anyone remember when Fernando used to play first base for a hitter and then resume pitching? I'm assuming there were some match-up problems that necessitated a righty even though Fernando still had some gas left. Anyone know when the last time someone did this was? Bob?
2006-06-25 12:45:15
253.   ToyCannon
I only recall Fernando playing 1st base one time and he never played 1st and then resumed pitching to my knowledge. Retrosheet backs that up saying he played one game at 1st in 1989 but I don't know about the resumed pitching part of the question. He played 3 games in the OF in 1982. He has a lifetime 1000% fielding percentage as a 1st baseman and RF.
2006-06-25 12:47:47
254.   dzzrtRatt
Like anybody who has a high profile job for a long time -- like FDR -- Lasorda went through phases, some better than others. I remember his arrival in 1976 giving a charge of excitement to being a Dodger fan, because he saw the game from a fan's point of view. After years of the quiet, diffident Walter Alston, Lasorda played a critical role in redefining the team as an aggressive force in baseball. He pi&&ed off the Giants, the Yankees, the Reds, the Braves, the Mets and the Astros, our biggest rivals from his era. Fans of those teams hated him, so we loved him.

I'll never forget when the Dodgers won the NL championship in 1977, and Tommy went into his Big Dodger in the Sky act on the national stage. It made a great moment for Dodger fans even more fun, to have this wild-eyed clown as the team's public face. Compared with the bitter sociopathic Billy Martin, it was easy to root for Lasorda, who seemed to embody what baseball was all about.

By the late 80s, it was apparent that a nastier side to his competitiveness was coming out, and by the mid-90s, it felt like the Dodgers needed a coup to get rid of this out of touch jerk who hurt the team by playing favorites.

But I'll stand by my affection for the Lasorda of '77-'88. He's also the only manager to have won two titles in the 1980s, and he played some role in the maintenance of a competitive squad through a period when you had a lot of the players at each others' throats. I can't think of a season in which his being manager cost the Dodgers, but his style helped them to overachieve in 1980 and 1988.

2006-06-25 13:03:34
255.   Blu2
All managers are crap because they fall far short of God-like wisdom.

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