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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Retreating Into My Own Little World
2006-06-29 11:00
by Jon Weisman

Wednesday was the first day in my memory that I read all the comments on Dodger Thoughts as they passed but didn't participate once. The primary reason was that I was a bit burned out from the previous day's discussion on the Mark Hendrickson trade, which many of us found worth examining to a degree beyond its importance to the Dodgers' immediate fortunes. Sort of the way we examine the Dodgers to a degree beyond their importance to our living and breathing. We just do.

As the day went on, there were a couple of places where I felt I could jump in and say something without it sending me to bed with a cold compress on my forehead, but each time I was on the verge, I found myself in love with the idea of continuing my fast. Many times, comments are like Lay's potato chips and you can't stop at one.

So instead, I silently digested another Dodger wipeout at the hands of an American League team, digested Odalis Perez's latest outing, digested Cesar Izturis' OPS finding its home below .700. I rooted for the Dodgers to make a game of it - just make a game of it - and Olmedo Saenz heard me with his three-run double.

My father-in-law, a Mets fan, made a joke about which one of us will be unhappier reading the papers following Wednesday's games. I courtesy laughed. Clearly, I would be unhappier, given that his team is in first place by a lot.

I watched the bottom of the first inning of the morning's game on TiVo after the kids were in bed and decided that Perez probably couldn't reach the infield grounder that set up Minnesota's grand slam, no matter how much effort he might have made. All along, I thought about writing something, but I never did.

For my first three decades as a Dodger fan, that's pretty much how it went. I would have mostly an interior dialogue. Dodger Thoughts came about when I saw an opportunity to stop talking to myself all the time. While there hasn't been a day that has gone by when I haven't been grateful that outlet, Wednesday was nicely nostalgic, nicely peaceful. It was nice to have some alone time.

And today, the Dodgers are still the Dodgers.

Comments (327)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-29 11:08:34
1.   Xeifrank
So, did you open up a new bag of potato chips? :) vr, Xei
2006-06-29 11:13:33
2.   Jon Weisman
Riiiip ...
2006-06-29 11:15:18
3.   DXMachina
And today, the Dodgers are still the Dodgers.

Yup. And Lays is still making chips. Munch as many or few as you want. They'll make more whatever you decide.

2006-06-29 11:16:54
4.   dzzrtRatt
I guess there's no shame is losing all these games to Minnesota and Oakland. They're a lot better teams than the Dodgers are, and they are playing in a much tougher league. Now we're about to play one of the few American League teams that isn't clearly better than most National League teams. But even the Angels have a better starting rotation than every NL team except maybe the Mets.

My optimism about Hendrickson is partly due to the fact that he's spent his whole career in the AL so far -- the AL East, for that matter, which has traditionally been the best of the best (although I think the Central passed them this season.) Hendrickson will come over here and face a steady diet of San Diego, San Francisco, Arizona, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc., and he'll feel like he's back in AAA. Every NL lineup except the Mets and the Cardinals has holes. What team presents any NL pitcher with a lineup approaching what the Yankees, Red Sox and Chisox put out there?

In the event Hendrickson does well and catches on with the fans, do you think they'll start selling fake beards at the souvenir stands?

2006-06-29 11:16:55
5.   Jon Weisman
Betcha Can't Comment Just Once
2006-06-29 11:17:30
6.   D4P

The bag or your pants...?

2006-06-29 11:26:00
7.   the OZ
6 The two are correlated.
2006-06-29 11:30:51
8.   natepurcell
Angels GM has offered me Joe Saunders for Andre Ethier or Kelvim Escobar for Ethier and Odalis.

I like both.

2006-06-29 11:31:02
9.   D4P
And the relationship is probably causal.
2006-06-29 11:32:24
10.   StolenMonkey86
I'm sure this was mentioned earlier, but Hendrickson went to the same school as Sele.

And Jon, living on the East Coast, I know what it's like to talk to yourself about the Dodgers.

2006-06-29 11:40:19
11.   Icaros

No on Escobar until he deletes that MySpace page.

2006-06-29 11:40:27
12.   Greg Brock
8Kelvim Escobar for Ethier and Odalis.

Grab Nate...Grab like something that grabs very well. A claw, maybe. Yeah, grab like a claw.

2006-06-29 11:41:48
13.   natepurcell
I dont like Escobar's injury history.
2006-06-29 11:42:54
14.   Greg Brock
13 I don't like Perez's history of being a fat load. I'd say something about Ethier being a fourth outfielder, but I know you disagree :)
2006-06-29 11:43:14
15.   Icaros
Escobar is great when healthy, but haven't I been reading about decreased velocity to go along with that extension he just signed?
2006-06-29 11:45:14
16.   D4P
I don't like Perez's history of being a fat load

I believe the technical term is "Fat Tub of Goo"

2006-06-29 11:47:52
17.   fawnkyj
I like Kelvim as a reliever not so much as a starter. Is he really worth it to get paid that much to be a reliever?
2006-06-29 11:48:59
18.   bluetahoe
Golly. I spent some time reading through the previous couples days posts and boy oh boy are my sides hurting from laughing.

I didn't realize Mark Hendrickson was EVIL. If I didn't know any better I'd have to guess that most of the posters think Hendy's Lucipher himself. LOL.

And to think Hendy's been lucky all season while OP has been unlucky all season. It was hard to just type that.

You people fail to realize that Seo and Beaz, on paper, are good trades, just like the Hendy deal.

Lets examine the Seo/Hamulak for Schmoll/Sanchez deal.

Seo was something like 8-2 with a sub 3 ERA in the 2nd half last season. Thats a sub 3 ERA in a lot of innings. Why would anyone expect that to double? Schmoll is complete trash who will never dawn a major league uniform again. Sanchez is the only person Midas has ever traded away that hurts a bit.

Trading for Baez made all the sense in the world. He proved he could close out ball games. He saved over 40 the year before. Midas was being proactive. He wasn't going to wait for Gagne to get hurt. He went and got him a 40+ save man. Not too many have that on the ol' resume. And look what he gave up. 2 pieces of garbage. Jackson is TERRIBLE and Tiffany is a BUST. The Drays made a TERRIBLE trade. They could have had so much more for Baez at the end of last year. They got stuck with trash. LOL. Carter was a no risk throw in that didn't pan out. Big deal. He was thrown into the trash bib in Vegas where he belongs.

And now the boys in blue get Hendy and the majority of you act like the franchise is crumbling. LOL. Navarro is overweight garbage. He's a scrubby Mike LaValliere. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Hendy has to just keep pitching like he's pitching and the boys in blue will win 60% of his starts.

2006-06-29 11:49:20
19.   Marty
Hey, I didn't make a comment either. Part of the reason is I missed the game, being at the Dr. office and all. My Dr. is in Van Nuys and when I got out at noon, it was 104 degrees. I almost melted into Odalis-like goo.
2006-06-29 11:50:31
20.   Suffering Bruin
15 First you refer to his MySpace page and then you go to the none-too-subtle double entendres--"decreased velocity" "extension"... this is a family site, you know.


2006-06-29 11:51:35
21.   Greg Brock
You know, the more I think about Ethier, it's not that he's a fourth outfielder, it's that he's a corner outfielder on teams like the Brewers, Pirates, Royals, or Blue Jays. Kind of a 3.5 outfielder. But not on a corner outfielder on a "First Tier" team.
2006-06-29 11:53:07
22.   Icaros

It's gotten to the point where I don't even realize I'm doing it.

2006-06-29 11:54:21
23.   Suffering Bruin
18 As an older Jewish friend of mine is fond of saying, "You may be right."
2006-06-29 11:56:06
24.   D4P
He may be crazy. But it just might be a lunatic we're looking for...
2006-06-29 11:58:06
25.   Icaros
How many different ways can it be explained that 40 saves for one of the worst franchises in the history of baseball (albeit a young one) is about as meaningless as a statistical measure can be?

Gagne's save streak is meaningless itself. It was his ungodly K and BB rates that made him great, not the fact that he didn't blow any three-run leads in the ninth-inning for two years.

2006-06-29 11:59:10
26.   Humma Kavula
Steve, there is a call for you on line two. Steve, line two.
2006-06-29 11:59:55
27.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I take a road trip to visit some Civil War battlefields, and lo-and-behold, all this happens. A game out of first, and turmoil over a trade.

Jon's post once again reminds me of the great puzzle of baseball fanship. Why in heaven's name do we care so much? On a rational level, this stuff really doesn't matter, but, well, that's not the way it works.

Anyhow, I don't like the trade, but as some others have said, even in baseball terms, it isn't the end of the world. I still like DePo more, but Choi's and Perez's struggles only show what DePo himself said--baseball GMship is as much art and science. I liked my chances with him more, and I have my worries about Ned, but the net affect on the team this season won't be huge.


2006-06-29 12:04:56
28.   El Dios Azul
Are the Dodgers a first tier team Greg? I have been asking myself that question for about 10 years now and would have to say.....NO.

Andre is a nice player, a fourth outfielder. That does not mean we should trade him. All times need solid role players.

Same thing with Aybar, he is no future all-star, but a decent back-up, that does not mean we have to scrub him to some other team.

Let us keep our guys, enjoy the season, and look for solid free agent help in the future.

The Hendricks trade was not that BAD, just a little pointless. In the end, I do not think he is going to be any better or worse then Seo or Odalis.

I still think (and hope, alot), that Odalis can pitch atleast at a league average level.

2006-06-29 12:06:01
29.   njr
I thought this would be an appropriate time to post something I've been thinking a lot about lately. I very much wanted to attend the Dodgerthoughts game at DS. I was planning on going to the game separately and then coming by to say hello. As it turned out, there was a mix up with tickets and I ended up not going at all. But the possibility of meeting everyone from this board presented an interesting conundrum.
I am the ultimate lurker around here. I've checked the board basically every day for over two years. I bet I've read 95% of the comments in that time. I feel like I know all the regulars like good friends. Things that happen at work will remind me of people from the board. At this point I can read through the posts without looking at the subject lines because I know immediately by tone and content who most of the posters are. When I'm arguing with someone in real time about the Dodgers I'll frame both sides of my own argument and think to myself "nate would say" etc... My mom even reads the board and we regularly refer to posts in our discussions.
How strange is it that if I were to have approached the group at the game no one would have any idea who I was? Does this make me selfish? Am I missing out? It's such a strange social phenomenon. And I wonder how many more there are like me on this board?
There are times I would like to open the bag of chips and even feel that I have some sort of duty to do so. But then again, there are others who know more about just about everything that has to do with baseball. For someone reason on this off day I feel the need to wax poetic and say thanks for being so great Jon (and everyone at DT). It has been such a pleasure to be (however quietly) a part of this community for the past few years. Perhaps I will now put down the chips and receded back to the corner and try not to laugh too hard at Bob's next joke. Or maybe the chips will be too good...
2006-06-29 12:10:30
30.   El Dios Azul
29 I have done much of the same! I have read for over a year and just started with a few comments recently. My English is not the best, so I have been shy.

One of the things that pushed me over the top to participate was the passing of my #1 "Dodger Friend". He and I would discuss the Dodgers and baseball at length, with his death, I miss the discussions.

This place has had an even greater meaning to me in the last few months.

2006-06-29 12:14:15
31.   Greg Brock
29 Great, the brand new guy has already contributed more introspection and depth than I ever will. Thanks for nothing.

And welcome aboard :)

2006-06-29 12:15:34
32.   Jon Weisman
29 - I really enjoyed that, njr. Feel free to comment as much or as little as you like, but know that you are always welcome.

I don't know if this relates, but to whatever extent people are afraid to comment because they're afraid of being ragged on too hard ... I'd like people to keep that in mind when they respond to things they don't agree with. This place isn't supposed to be a playground where only the toughest survive. It should be a place where, as corny as it sounds, everyone gets to play if they want.

Dialing down the hyperbole whenever we can is one idea I have. I think we can have plenty of fun without exaggerating things. And in general, there's still too much mocking of other people, on all sides of the conversation. There's still too much mocking of opposing points of view instead of responding respectfully.

Just something to keep in mind. We're pretty good, but we can do better.

2006-06-29 12:16:52
33.   thinkingblue
The Hendricks trade was not that BAD, just a little pointless. In the end, I do not think he is going to be any better or worse then Seo or Odalis.

I still think (and hope, alot), that Odalis can pitch atleast at a league average level.

GIVE UP ON OP. He's garbage. Period. It doesn't matter that he was league average in the past, he's a league offensive slump buster now.

Also, I would have more hope for Hendrickson to pitch near, or a little below league average, especially looking at what he does on the road.

2006-06-29 12:17:09
34.   Jon Weisman
30 - Welcome to you too.

31 - Humbling, isn't it?

2006-06-29 12:18:34
35.   Dodger Tony
Colin Cowherd, ESPN radio announcer, made a comment on his radio show that is being used as a promotional spot. He asked "what is the difference between Angel fans and Dodger fans? You can tell the Dodger fans because there the fans who have been depressed for ten years".

I think there is some medical truth in that statement. I myself have been suffering from depression for many years now and I know that the bi-polar disorder known as the Dodgers has contributed to many of the pharmaceutical companies profits. I think maybe the Dodgers should be a sponsor for Lexipro.

I also am really strongly committed to the belief that the pitchers we picked up in the off-season were competent pitchers and that Grady Little's misuse of the bullpen created a trickle down effect that caused both psychological and mechanical problems. I still have no logical explanation for his abnegation of the spot lefty. He has rarely, if ever, used it all opting instead to use his lefties in righty type situations. Also, I do think that one of his fatal character flaws is his fear of going out to the mound due to the Donnie Moore/Bill Bucknerish nature of his destruction in game 7/ALCS. Not to excuse the pitching performances but this has been a big contributing factor to the staffs continued problems.

2006-06-29 12:19:52
36.   D4P
The best way to overcome Dodger-related depression is to stop caring and start laughing.
2006-06-29 12:20:04
37.   El Dios Azul
33 I will keep pulling for Odalis, if only because it helps the Dodgers' push for a division title and play-off birth.

I really think to myself, can this guy really have slipped this much and how much of it has to do with bad luck?

I am not expecting much from Odalis, but hey, we are Dodger fans, we can always hope.

2006-06-29 12:20:07
38.   bluetahoe
Another point I'd like to add on Baez which people 'conveniently overlook' or just plain 'ignore'.

BA against by year.
2003 - .229
2004 - .237
2005 - .244
2006 - .298

OPS against by year.
2003 - .673
2004 - .685
2005 - .674
2006 - .749

41 saves in 49 opportunities including 7 of 7 against the Yankees. (But there's no pressure pitching against the Yanks. LOL)

I guess Baez was just "LUCKY" over the course of 3 full seasons. ::rolls eyes::

2006-06-29 12:21:05
39.   Dodger Tony
Correction:Grady Littles (possession error)misuse of the bullpen...
2006-06-29 12:21:44
40.   Dodger Tony
Colin Cowherd, ESPN radio announcer, made a comment on his radio show that is being used as a promotional spot. He asked "what is the difference between Angel fans and Dodger fans? You can tell the Dodger fans because there the fans who have been depressed for ten years".

I think there is some medical truth in that statement. I myself have been suffering from depression for many years now and I know that the bi-polar disorder known as the Dodgers has contributed to many of the pharmaceutical companies profits. I think maybe the Dodgers should be a sponsor for Lexipro.

I also am really strongly committed to the belief that the pitchers we picked up in the off-season were competent pitchers and that Grady Little's misuse of the bullpen created a trickle down effect that caused both psychological and mechanical problems. I still have no logical explanation for his abnegation of the spot lefty. He has rarely, if ever, used it all opting instead to use his lefties in righty type situations. Also, I do think that one of his fatal character flaws is his fear of going out to the mound due to the Donnie Moore/Bill Bucknerish nature of his destruction in game 7/ALCS. Not to excuse the pitching performances but this has been a big contributing factor to the staffs continued problems.

2006-06-29 12:22:32
41.   Jon Weisman
35 - Really? I think with just a few exceptions, Little's handling of the bullpen has been good. He's reacted when pitchers have shown they haven't had the stuff - moving Baez down the food chain and Broxton up, for example. There are much fewer instances of a Dodger starter being left in too long than there were last year. And frankly, too often other managers relegate lefty pitchers just to facing lefties when it isn't necessary.

The last thing I'd say is that Little has been perfect, but I think mainly the problem is that the starters get pounded half the time.

2006-06-29 12:23:33
42.   El Dios Azul
38 Thanks for the stats.

You guys can rag on me later, but I think Baez will turn things around.

No, he will never be Eric Gagne, but I think he will give us a better performance before all is said and done.

WHO will be available in the free agent market, that is what I want to know. We have some rookies priced below their worth the next few years, we need to take advantage of this situation and sign some good players. I just hope there are guys out there, especially arms.

2006-06-29 12:24:48
43.   bluetahoe
33. I've come to the conclusion OP should still be given a chance becuase DePo (aka God) signed him and Hendy is just "so what" because............nevermind.
2006-06-29 12:25:03
44.   thinkingblue
Uh, hello bluetahoe, Baez gets no excuses because unlike Perez, he was not aquired by DePodesta.
2006-06-29 12:25:08
45.   Greg Brock
34 Yes.
2006-06-29 12:25:39
46.   thinkingblue
Edit 44, Baez was not signed by Depo, like Perez was resigned by Depo.
2006-06-29 12:26:36
47.   Xeifrank
The Pirates are a few outs away from ending their lucky 13 game losing streak. Jim Tracy, this chip's for yoU! vr, Xei
2006-06-29 12:28:21
48.   still bevens
35 I still secretly blame Rick Honneycut for the pitching staff's woes. We've seen no turnarounds for any of the pithchers who have been struggling. You would think a good pitching coach could get in there and try to correct mechanics or whatever. Im also starting to wonder what effect Martin's pitch calling is having on games. It seems like alot of our staff is afraid to throw strikes, in particular during 3-2 counts. I'd say a good amount of those counts I've seen during games have resulted in walks rather than strikeouts. Perhaps we dont have 'strikeout' pitchers, but I'd like to see people try.
2006-06-29 12:28:35
49.   Xeifrank
47. nevermind, ChiSox tied it up as I wrote #47. I take my chip back (Crunch). vr, Xei
2006-06-29 12:28:45
50.   thinkingblue
Colin Cowherd, ESPN radio announcer, made a comment on his radio show that is being used as a promotional spot. He asked "what is the difference between Angel fans and Dodger fans? You can tell the Dodger fans because there the fans who have been depressed for ten years".

And the angel fans are giddy over their 7 games under team?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-29 12:29:25
51.   Steve
[hangs up phone]
2006-06-29 12:31:43
52.   D4P
[blocks number]
2006-06-29 12:32:01
53.   Dodger Tony
I do agree that the starters have been mashed and that has created more work for Grady, but even when we were league lowest in staff ERA and getting more quality starts Grady seemed kind of clueless on how to use the pen. Granted, it was a brand new team and he had his 10-12 game "experiment" figuring out their roles, but he never really had to do this in Boston. It's just a perception, but I find myself not understanding his moves most of the time. (Did I just set myself up for a punchline?)
But in all honesty, he has to be a contender for Manager of the year in the NL for keeping this ship afloat with the decimating injuries we've had.
All eyes are now on Ned, I suspect. But is there really any motivation for him to do anything more than get "enough" to win the west?
2006-06-29 12:32:30
54.   njr
32-- Thanks Jon. In my case it's not fear of retribution but rather that I often feel someone else will make my case better than me with better numbers to back it up.
2006-06-29 12:32:36
55.   bluetahoe
44. I mean, I don't understand why there seems to be so much hate directed toward Ned. I'd hate to see where we'd be with DePo still around. We'd surely be stuck with Choi who you'd want on the DL and Bradley who you don't want on the DL but always is. And I firmly believe prospective free agents would have shyed away from LA had Depo still been GM.
2006-06-29 12:34:49
56.   Greg Brock
55 Free agents go to the team that offers them the most money over the greatest number of years. You can thank the mafia-like players union for that.
2006-06-29 12:36:38
57.   Xeifrank
I can't really stand what's on the local sports radio talk shows anymore. It seems they are more "shock jocks" than anything else. They just take up some extreme position on something or say something outlandish just to ruffle feathers and get people to call in. They often don't even talk about sports, but the soap opera aspects of sports, which is a HUGE turnoff to me. And to top it off this morning when I ejected the Wiggles tape out of the cassette player in the car Cowherd was blabbing about college football coaches. Personally, I can only stand college football during football season. I listen sometimes just out of hope that they will be discussing actual sports, but between Cowherd, McDonnel, Mason, Patrick and Rome... eee-gads. What's the deal with people reading faxes to the radio host? When will DT have it's own radio show?? :)
vr, Xei
2006-06-29 12:36:42
58.   El Dios Azul
Can I bring up a new discussion, well, new to me...

What does the Dodger GM, Ned, need to do to make this team an A level squad?

2006-06-29 12:37:06
59.   D4P
And I firmly believe prospective free agents would have shyed away from LA had Depo still been GM.

Thank God Ned was able to coax Furcal, Tomko, Alomar, Mueller, Martinez, etc. to hop on board the Dodger train.

2006-06-29 12:38:17
60.   Suffering Bruin
Lest we forget (and hat tip to Rob at 6-4-2): Happy Birthday Pedro Guerrero.

That seems weird to say in light of his recent history but, man, was he fun to watch at the plate.

2006-06-29 12:38:24
61.   bluetahoe
56. Nomar got a 1 year deal. I don't think he'd be dawning the blue had there not been a regime change.
2006-06-29 12:38:33
62.   Dodger Tony
48-I absolutely agree as well. There has been almost nothing mentioned about Rick Honeycut and his part in the collapse. I think that at least should be mentioned in the media. Problem is, as I understand it, here in Los Angeles if you criticize the organization openly you may very well lose your press credentials, which happened recently to a writer, uh, can't remember where and who. Someone help me out.
If this were New York, which has a savage press power, any recalcitrance on the part of the PR guy (my apologies Mr. Rawitch) would be met with a loud boot to the posterior and out onto Fordham road or Steinway. There is none of that pressure in sunny LA
2006-06-29 12:39:05
63.   El Dios Azul
57 I can deal with most the talk radio clowns, but I really dislike Joe McDonald. I will leave it like that. Dave Smith rubs me the wrong way, as well..
2006-06-29 12:40:27
64.   Xeifrank
55. The main difference I see between Depo's team and Colleti's team is that help from the minor league system was available for the latter. Both had to deal with injuries, probably Depo had more injured starters, but this season isn't half over yet.
vr, Xei
2006-06-29 12:40:33
65.   bluetahoe
59. Why do you 'conveniently' leave off Nomar? LOL.
2006-06-29 12:41:26
66.   Linkmeister
I'm kind of astonished that here we are, 1/3 of the way through the season, and no one has suggested that Honeycutt should be teaching our pitchers the nail-file trick (or whatever it was he got busted for that time).

Have we all become Goody Two-Shoes? ;)

2006-06-29 12:41:28
67.   Suffering Bruin
"Horse head in the bed, table 56. Horse head in the bed, table 56, please."
2006-06-29 12:41:53
68.   Xeifrank
61. Nomar wouldn't come to the Dodgers under Depo? Or Depo wouldn't have signed Nomar? I want to make sure I understand what you are trying to say. vr, Xei
2006-06-29 12:47:01
69.   Greg Brock
67 "Mr. Fehr is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately."
2006-06-29 12:49:44
70.   overkill94
62 That was a couple of journalists in Kansas City that kept bagging on the Royals owner for his treatment of their GM leading up to his firing.
2006-06-29 12:50:01
71.   bonnie
Hey njr! Nice first post. Now you will scare all the other lurkers here. ;)

"Man, that poster is so eloquent and has been hesitant to post here. How am I ever going to post?"

So I say, for one post, on an off-day, Lurkers Unite.

"My name is Bonnie and I'm a Lurker and a DT addict"

2006-06-29 12:50:15
72.   overkill94
And a walk-off by local boy Freddy Sanchez finally gets the Pirates a win.
2006-06-29 12:55:25
73.   Linkmeister
71 That's almost a tradition at one of the high-traffic political blogs I read, bonnie, typically on a day when nothing happens on the Libby case.

Unlurker Day!

njr and El Dios Azul, welcome and bienvenidos. No more shyness, please.

2006-06-29 12:56:06
74.   Jon Weisman
55 - Ned has plenty of supporters here.

I think a higher percentage of commenters here were DePo supporters because there were few other places for them to go without being attacked in ways more vicious than I would ever allow here.

Conversely, there are plenty of places for Ned supporters to go, so it seems like there are fewer of them here.

Beyond that, I think most people here look at the moves both GMs have made and like some and dislike others. The idea that we will defend one transaction to the death because of who made it is, as was implied in 44 and 46, is completely false. Example: Do you not see the many people criticizing Odalis who by and large liked DePodesta?

2006-06-29 12:59:58
75.   Jon Weisman
In other words, plenty of people here like and dislike moves by both general managers. Making generalizations in order to martyr your own point of view serves no purpose.
2006-06-29 13:02:33
76.   Suffering Bruin
njr wrote: Thanks Jon. In my case it's not fear of retribution but rather that I often feel someone else will make my case better than me with better numbers to back it up.

To which I reply:

Where's the problem? Heck, I rely on the fact someone is going to make a better case than me. Then, I take the information I get from this site and sound smart to my friends.

My secret? I don't do research. It's tiring, sometimes confusing and gets in the way of my snack and snooze time. So, I contribute by bizarre obsessions with fringe first basemen with the aural power to change the fate of a team by his mere presence (this player really, really, REALLY needs no introduction).

Seriously, welcome aboard. If your first post is any indication, my role as resident nutcase is secure in the DT firmament while you'll have plenty of company in the house of reason. Just know that the crazies on the DT board (there are a few) get stared at more at the DT outings. It's a nice little perk.

2006-06-29 13:08:12
77.   Greg Brock
No matter what you think of Ned (and I'm a fence-sitter at this point), the fact is that he traded Jackson, Tiffany, and Navarro, three kids all under 25 years old, and netted Mark Hendrickson, Danys Baez, Toby Hall, and Lance Carter.

Whether those kids pan out or not, they all had value beyond what the Dodgers received in return. Baez blew eight saves last year, Carter is a marginal middle reliever (now in AAA), Hall is a career backup, and Hendrickson is a below league average pitcher (this year's anomaly not withstanding).

I don't think Colletti got blown out of the water in any of those trades, and I don't think the anger is justified for this most recent trade, I just don't think it's a good sign of things to come.

2006-06-29 13:08:30
78.   Fallout
The ones who say that Ethier is a 4th outfielder, are you saying that he will be like Todd Hollandsworth? (A .273 lifetime BA with 94 HR at 33yrs old)

Ethier is doing very well in his rookie year. Remember Repko? So many ragged on him after (and during) his first season.
I say that you will not know what he has until he plays a few seasons. Do the Dodgers have the patience to see if he is an above average hitter?

2006-06-29 13:10:46
79.   Marty
77 Exactly. What I would have said except, you know, mine wouldn't have been as good.
2006-06-29 13:12:33
80.   bluetahoe
It sure seems like there's a whole bunch of moaning and whining. It's easy to look back and say such and such should have been done. I can't see anyone on here putting together a better team this season than Midas put together. Maybe so. Who knows?
2006-06-29 13:12:45
81.   Suffering Bruin
79 I have the same problem with Greg. I'm working on it, Marty. I'm working on it...
2006-06-29 13:16:09
82.   bluetahoe
I'll take a .675 OPS against reliever who saves 40+, and a starter going up against TOR/BAL/NYY/BOS 40% of the time posting a 3.80 ERA......

for 3 pieces of GARBAGE in Jackson, Navarro, and Tiffany any day of the week.

2006-06-29 13:17:41
83.   njr
71-- Welcome to the group Bonnie. I have a feeling there are many more of us.


I miss him too. I remember the first time I was at DS and the whole stadium started chanting "HEE SOP CHOI". I thought perhaps all would be right in the world. If he really turns out to be a bust (by talent or by circumstance) it will be a sad day for many on this board.

You bring up a good point though-- maybe the way to get involved is to pick an obsession and post about it all the time.
How about DodgerThoughts for GM? (Think Greek Chorus with Jon as the leader).

This posting thing is addictive...

2006-06-29 13:18:21
84.   Greg Brock
79 Aw, shucks. I feel like the Belle of the ball, except a few lbs. over, and a little more male.

I guess that would make me the Bill of the ball.

2006-06-29 13:18:49
85.   bonnie
Unlurker day!
That's cool. Of course, days without Scooter news would be most days. Luckily, the Dodgers are off no more than one day a week.
2006-06-29 13:22:06
86.   Greg Brock
82 I don't see how you can justify calling Navarro garbage. Jackson is a big bowl of struggling (at 22 years old), and Tiffany may not be great, but I think that calling them GARBAGE is a bit excessive.
2006-06-29 13:23:43
87.   ToyCannon
Ah, a nice DT day. A great 1st time post and a Freddy Sanchez sighting. For what it is worth my niece went to school with him and since he's a great guy our family has been rooting for him ever since it was obvious he had major league talent. Our family grew up RedSox fans so we were thrilled when was drafted by the Sox and bummed he was traded to the Pirates. It is great to see him fighting Nomar for the NL batting championship. Bottoms up for the little guy.
2006-06-29 13:23:58
88.   GoBears
76 njr wrote: Thanks Jon. In my case it's not fear of retribution but rather that I often feel someone else will make my case better than me with better numbers to back it up.

Where's the problem? Heck, I rely on the fact someone is going to make a better case than me.

Thanks, njr and SB. SB is right. This is the first step to wisdom.

If I may, I'd like to share two pieces of advice that I received that have stuck with me, the first in grad school, the second from a colleague several years ago:

1. It is always better to try to open a debate than to try to finish one. The first gets you cited as a creative thinker; the second as a deluded egomaniac (if at all).

2. Truth is a direction, not a destination. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking you've arrived there. At best, you're on the right path.

2006-06-29 13:27:48
89.   bhsportsguy
Hi, my name is bhsportsguy and I am a DT-holic.

76 So do I get any attribution when I do my exhaustive research?

I agree with Jon, that you will find that some here are really into the minor league folks and Baseball Prospectus, Baseball America, Bill James, etc., and from my review of "The Best of Dodger Thoughts", which is still available and makes a fine book to take on outings to the beach or stadium, this is a forum to discuss those viewpoints.

Without researching, I am guessing that the day the music died (Depo fired) was among the darkest on this site but we have recoverd and now we have a lot to look forward to as the second half approaches.

So welcome aboard lurkers and feel free to dip your toes in the water.

Just don't try to pretend to know more about our minor leaguers or Nate will come after you, ha ha.

2006-06-29 13:29:09
90.   Eric L
82 Garbage in, Garbage out?
2006-06-29 13:29:36
91.   ToyCannon
Your life will never be the same. When I came across DT I had a great job, a great wife, great kids and now I've lost my job, my wife, my kids and I use all my unemployment money to keep my high speed connection going instead of paying rent in the cesspool of a rental that I'm now confined. Lays are now my only source of food. Beware this DT, BEWARE
2006-06-29 13:30:47
92.   Linkmeister
88 re 2.: Somebody (RLS, maybe?) said "It's the journey, not the destination."
2006-06-29 13:30:57
93.   Fallout
Rick Honeycutt, I have my questions about him. I do not see many Dodger games living in the East Bay. But, I did see Billingsley pitch and come out of a game after thr 5th inning where he then sat next to Honeycut. The camera was on the bench and you saw Billingsley say something to Honeycutt who did not reply. The again B said something to H and again he did not reply. I was thinking that was strange not to get feedback from your pitching coach.
I'm sure that Jim Colburn would have been more helpful. Also, wasn't Honeycutt one of those <100 pitch count pitchers?
2006-06-29 13:30:59
94.   blue22
78 - Hollandsworth is who I think of when I fastforward Andre Ethier, although I like to think that's his "downside".

His upside could be...Trot Nixon?

Ethier is hard to pin, since his best seasons have come when he's a bit old for the league (MVP of AA as a 23 year old, .825 OPS as a 22 year old in high A).

2006-06-29 13:33:53
95.   Eric L
92 One thing I've learned from posting on places like DT and Primer is that if you have an open mind, you can learn a whole heck about baseball and individual players.
2006-06-29 13:35:54
96.   Telemachos
57 In defense of Cowherd, a couple of days ago he made some very sensible (albeit) brief comments about baseball: that what Big Money gives you is the ability to overcome your GM mistakes. When you don't have a huge budget, your ability to recover from mistakes is limited. He then pointed out that the one team in baseball that consistently wins on a small budget is the A's (and to some degree the Twins), and that "Moneyball works".
2006-06-29 13:36:27
97.   jasonungar05
My wife reminds me all the time: All this grief (and excitement) for a team who hasn't won anything since you were in High School??(And she was in grade school-LOL) Thank God for this place. The comment Jon made about talking to himself hits home
2006-06-29 13:37:19
98.   dzzrtRatt
Longtime DT poster: I want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Virgin DT poster: Yes, sir.
Longtime DT poster: Are you listening?
Virgin DT poster: Yes, I am.
Longtime DT poster: Peripherals.
2006-06-29 13:38:28
99.   Humma Kavula
As long as we're making confessions...

I have a lot of conversations about baseball with one particular guy at work -- a Cubs fan. I think it would be fair to say that this guy buys into a lot of the old-school thinking... for example, when he wants to support an argument that a player is making a valuable offensive contribution, he cites RBI.

The main difference between us, though, is that I tend to see front-office maanagement for what it can be, where he sees it for what it is. When I criticized the Navarro deal -- and believe me, I used much more forceful language than it deserved -- he said, "You're going into Bizarro mode." By that he meant: if a better deal for Navarro existed, Ned would have got it. GMs do not make trades they don't need to make.

If I was feeling uncharitable, I would say that he was making the "it's-easy-to-GM-from-your-couch" argument (which I think is a bad argument). More charitably, he has a point, of course -- we don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes.

But all that said, I just have to believe that things can be better, that there is an optimal way to construct a team. Nobody's going to be perfect, of course, but ya gotta try. If you're constantly resigned to feeling "Well, I guess that's the best they could do," before long, you're OK with giving your young pitchers to Dusty Baker. Nobody should have to live with that.

Here's why I love DT: it helps me with that hope. Also, it gives me fantastic arguments I can use to shove in that guy's face.

2006-06-29 13:39:44
100.   Greg Brock
98 Hello darkness, my old friend...
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-29 13:43:14
101.   bonnie
Well, I gotta go. I have friends coming over and am making Grilled Pizza, with summer vegetables from my garden, basted in rosemary, balsamic vinegar and olive oil.

As much as I think I know you all, who is it that always posts their delicious sounding dinner menu? Howard? LAT?

Anyway, that reminds me of one of the more useful facts I've learned here at DT. Asparagus makes your urine smell, but only if you have the gene that allows you to smell it. I've amazed my friends with that trivia!

I'll leave you with my opinion of the trade. Bleh, at least at the end of the day, even if we DFA Hall, we didn't give up Liriano and Nathan for him. And at least the Giants did and we don't have to face him several times a year.

2006-06-29 13:47:33
102.   Linkmeister
101 I think Marty's the menu poster. I think he borrows from the food pages of his employer. ;)
2006-06-29 13:48:10
103.   bonnie
Yikes! that post was on a page fold. Everyone will see it until you hit 150+.

Help me out and top that quickly!

2006-06-29 13:49:49
104.   Ladderkite
87 - I must confess I too am now a fan of Sanchez. I didn't know much about him, but when Vin told the story of how he was born with a club foot, and that he overcame several operations as a youngster, I was impressed. It is good to hear that kind of stuff.
2006-06-29 13:50:47
105.   Humma Kavula
One more thing I'd like to say...

bluetahoe, I only rarely agree with your points, but I dig your optimism. I really love this team, too -- they're fun to watch, even when they lose.

Keep it up. Don't let anybody grind ya down (not that I think anybody is grinding you down, or that you would let anybody do that).

2006-06-29 14:00:08
106.   underdog
Well, welcome Bonnie and congrats on the DT post that made me hungrier than any previous post.

Btw, I asked this on the previous thread but it was the equivalent of waking up and saying something profound in a meeting after everyone had gone home for the day.

Actually this isn't profound at all, but just a question: Will Scott Elbert be promoted to Jax soon? Does anyone see a chance he could get promoted when rosters expand this year, or more likely next year?

Meanwhile, sort of like Jon, I'm retreating into my own world today with the Dodgers off, and thus not likely to lose to the Twins, and hope that I, and they, recharge batteries in time for the Angels.

2006-06-29 14:04:03
107.   GoBears
99 if a better deal for Navarro existed, Ned would have got it. GMs do not make trades they don't need to make.

Good post, HK. This is the essence of the "you don't know - you're not in the room" argument, and it contains a fallacy. Certainly Colletti knows more about the players, the market, and the pressures from the owner than we do. But that doesn't mean that he uses that information well. It also doesn't mean the opposite.

To conclude that this was the best he could get for Navarro, or else he (with all the info) would have done better, is to grant that he and we agree on the measure of quality. And even then, "best" might not be better than no deal at all.

Or, it might be the case that Colletti is a DePo clone, KNOWS full well that he didn't just improve the team or the organization (insofar as Navarro was in AAA), but was under tremendous pressure from the owner to DO SOMETHING, and should be considered a hero for at least doing no serious harm - maybe now he can hold onto the real prospects a little longer.

We, of course, don't know the circumstances. We DO know the players involved in this deal, and some think that it was pointless at best, wasteful (of Navarro, who might eventually have brought more) at worst. We don't need to know WHY Colletti did it to make that evaluation. The speculation begins when we ask why. Does he think he improved the team? Was he making a deal just to make a deal? Is he Sabean-lite, desperate to increase the average age of the team? Or was he using misdirection to quiet McCourt/Plaschke types? Who knows? It's fun to guess, but we don't know his motives.

But as any prosecutor will tell you, while motive is helpful to know, you don't need to prove motive to convict.

2006-06-29 14:05:18
108.   bryanf
For njr and bonnie and all the other newcomers out there, thanks for the inspiration.

If today, Lurkers Unite, then I must get in on the action. I'm a DT addict for sure. I hope commenting doesn't become too addictive for me or I'll never get anything done at work...

Talk to you soon...

2006-06-29 14:06:42
109.   DodgerJoe
I am another one who reads most of the posts but rarely writes...mainly because I don't understand so many of the stats (VORP, etc.), so I can't back anything up. I guess I'm more of an old school guy, although I'm only 30 years old. I like to rely on what I see moreso than statistical analysis, although I do understand that it has its place in today's game.
2006-06-29 14:07:22
110.   Eric Enders
I'm becoming more of a lurker than I used to be, too. I still read almost every comment on every thread, but since the explosion of traffic here I've found that there isn't as much need for me to comment anymore. Someone else has usually made my point earlier and better.
2006-06-29 14:09:13
111.   DodgerJoe
57 - Colin Cowherd is probably the best sports talk radio host that we get to hear. You have to remember that he is on the east coast and broadcasts nationally, so he has to cater more to the masses.

Plus, he is a football guy. He has a daily football fix even in the offseason.

Maybe, I'm a bit biased beacuse in my life, it goes the Dodgers, then all college football, followed by any other kind of football and then the rest of baseball.

2006-06-29 14:10:39
112.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 107

The other problem with that argument is that in the end it means we have nothing to talk about.

Just as Ned has limited amounts of information, so do we, and we still should do the best with what we have. And I do think that this trade wasn't all that great in terms of the actual value of the players. It may still be understandable from Ned's perspective in a trade market so thin on decent starting pitching, but the statistical value of the players, their contract situation, etc., should count for something...


2006-06-29 14:11:28
113.   GoBears
OT: Nice review/summary of "Baseball Between the Numbers" in the LA Times. Which sorta surprises me...

2006-06-29 14:14:23
114.   Humma Kavula
113 It is good to be reminded that the Plaschke infection has not spread beyond the sports pages.

Another sign of that -- and this is completely OT -- Dan Neil. I don't know anything about cars, but that guy is a great writer.

2006-06-29 14:16:05
115.   D4P
The other problem with that argument is that it seems to suggest that every would make the exact same decisions, given the same information. That's clearly not true. It's not only possible, but likely that there is variation between GMs in the types of players they're interested in, such that a given GM would likely accept a different set of players in return for trading a given set of players.

And just to be fair, I thought Depo should have gotten more in exchange for Dave Roberts than Henri Stanley. I didn't for one moment think that Stanley was "the best" deal Depo could make. Nor do I think "nothing" was the best that Ned could have gotten in return for Choi and/or Ross. I mean, even Dave Ross fetched a cool 75 large...

2006-06-29 14:19:29
116.   Eric Enders
115 DePo himself admitted that the Roberts trade was a bad one. Although it was made essentially as a favor to Roberts for being a good guy, getting him to a playoff-bound team which would actually have a role for him. It was necessary to make the Roberts trade immediately to make room for Steve Finley on the roster.

That said, they should have gotten more for him.

2006-06-29 14:22:25
117.   Sushirabbit
goBears 88 was good words to remember.

To all you lurkers, I know I've posted plenty that wasn't worth much. I enjoy the "Info" that goes around, and sometimes enjoy the sort of community-of-Dodger-Fan-ness of it, but to me it's the quality of posts and the sort of Jazz-like riffs that develop that make me just go: "wow" -- that and I just laugh alot.

99 and 107 - as to Colletti and the trade, it is easy to make snap judgements (I'm as guilty as anyone of that) and that's why I asked "could someone actually be after ALomar?", because sometimes GMs make moves towards some other end without ever achieving the end.

2006-06-29 14:35:36
118.   underdog
Are we still talking about Ned, and the Navarro trade? Just curious... I may then lurk for another day or so until it's safe to come back. ;-)
2006-06-29 14:36:25
119.   D4P
We can move on to the Carter trade if you'd prefer...
2006-06-29 14:38:37
121.   bobbygrich
At least we are not pounding our heads wondering why our number one prospect has struck out 26-27 guys in his last 2 starts in AAA after going 4-0 in the Show.

I'm just glad that he pitched yesterday so I don't have to worry about facing Jered Weaver this year.

2006-06-29 14:40:54
123.   D4P
I'm just glad that he pitched yesterday so I don't have to worry about facing Jered Weaver this year.

You don't really have to worry about facing anyone.

2006-06-29 14:42:28
124.   D4P
Search the archives.

PS: You should also acknowledge that some people evaluate the "goodness" or "badness" of trades based on "outcomes," and some people base the evaluations on "information available at the time of the trade."

2006-06-29 14:42:45
125.   bobbygrich
120 Now, now...its been almost 2 years since that deal, the man got fired and Ned is slowly getting rid of all the guys that Paul brought on the team (except Lowe, Penny, Drew and Kent)
2006-06-29 14:45:08
126.   underdog
119 Eeek! No, Lance Carter Talk needs a year long period of quiet time, at least.
2006-06-29 14:46:47
127.   bobbygrich
123 Now this comment could mean one of two things, the obvious is one is that I will never go to the plate to face Jered Weaver or 2, with anoymity of this site, I don't have to worry about ever going toe to toe with anyone on this board.

Either way, you are correct and I stand corrected.

2006-06-29 14:48:42
132.   Marty
Hey, there's only room for one food poster and I got here first :)

I haven't tried to make pizza yet, but I'm not going to start today since it's about 3000 degrees outside and the last thing I want to do is turn on the oven.

And Mr. Linkmeister, I'd borrow something from the food section if there was something worth borrowing :). The Times food section has to be one of the weakest in the country.

2006-06-29 14:49:05
133.   Marty
Though their test kitchen is awesome.
2006-06-29 14:49:38
134.   Greg Brock
Oh goodness. This is unfortunate.
2006-06-29 14:51:04
139.   Marty
Oops, I seem to have landed in the middle of a shooting war.
2006-06-29 14:52:25
140.   Jon Weisman
It had been such a nice day.
2006-06-29 14:53:11
141.   Greg Brock
140 O, Jon Weisman, you stand on guard for we.
2006-06-29 14:56:26
142.   D4P
Stands beside us, and guides us,
Thru the night with a light from above.
2006-06-29 14:57:45
143.   Xeifrank
The Dodger Sims for all three Angels games are up. Two one run games and one blow-out.
vr, Xei
2006-06-29 14:59:12
144.   underdog
Good piece by Tom Verducci in SI online (you have to be a subscriber to read it though. I didn't want to repost the whole thing here because it's kind of long.) While the gist of it is nothing new - the Dodgers are one of the teams being helped by rookies, it has some interesting angles and anecdotes. Starts off with an extended look at Matt Kemp and then some of the other Dodgers and other teams being helped enormously by rookies due to lack of appealing veteran options, money and other factors.

One tidbit:
If you think the first half of the season was hard to predict, just wait for the second half. That's because most rookies have never played a six-month season. Not only will young players face the physical challenge of a longer season, but also some will feel the pressure of a major league pennant race. "To be able to survive takes the right balance of young players and veterans, especially as you get closer to October," Indians G.M. Mark Shapiro says. "The Dodgers have veterans, guys like Kenny Lofton, Jeff Kent and Nomar Garciaparra, who can take some of that pressure off the young players."

2006-06-29 15:04:48
145.   overkill94
What happened to 122? Was it pro-Becker talk?
2006-06-29 15:08:56
146.   overkill94
FYI, Freddy Sanchez overtook Nomar for the NL batting average lead with his 4-hit day today.

Freddy - .363
Nomar - .362

2006-06-29 15:11:29
147.   Greg Brock
144 I liked Verducci's Plimptonesque role as a member of the Jays. It wasn't Paper Lion, but it was pretty great. If you didn't get a chance to read it, you should check it out.

This total non-sequitur brought to you by the Baltimore Opera Hat Company

2006-06-29 15:13:14
148.   bobbygrich
Now I will have to wait for "Dodger Thoughts Uncensored" to see what really happened today.

145 I saw the a bit of 3 Men and a Baby last night starring Mr. Danson and I noted two things, that movie really does not work (did it ever) now and it hard to separate Sam Malone from Ted Danson, I always thought Becker was just a more bitter Sam Malone.

2006-06-29 15:15:53
149.   overkill94
I haven't seen 3 Men and a Baby since it came out at which time I was 7. I remember liking it back then, but then again I watched a lot of Saturday morning cartoons back then so my humor wasn't quite refined.
2006-06-29 15:18:32
150.   bigcpa
Was that good old Marvin weighing in on the Navarro trade?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-29 15:19:49
151.   overkill94
Wow, I didn't even notice all the other missing posts. Someone must have gone postal. That's what happens when you make it alright for the lurkers to come out from the shadows ;)
2006-06-29 15:20:53
152.   Marty
150 Whoever it was was posting under the name "Something".

Has anyone heard any more news about Gammons?

2006-06-29 15:21:37
153.   Greg Brock
150 151 It was a random act of cyber-hooliganism directed at old friend JoeyP. Thankfully, Jon was on it faster than you can imagine.
2006-06-29 15:23:07
154.   still bevens
151 You've seen one profanity laced screed, you've seen them all.
2006-06-29 15:23:58
155.   Humma Kavula
Ya leave the office for a half-hour and a beautiful thread becomes very strange.

In other news, I just found out that I'm moving offices. I get to leave the closet that I'm currently in and go to another closet. Joy.

2006-06-29 15:24:59
156.   Eric Enders
Yeah, I too skipped right by without noticing the missing post numbers. I'm a little disappointed. It's like arriving at the aftermath of a car wreck scene -- you're happy you missed it because you don't want to witness the carnage, but deep down somewhere secretly you do.
2006-06-29 15:26:28
157.   ddog
Another long-time lurker and very occasional poster dipping his toe in the water today..

I had an experience last night that perhaps only another DT reader might appreciate. Of all things, I actually met Nancy Bea Heffley. She was the "mystery guest" at the "What's My Line" show at the Acme on LaBrea. It took panelist Kitty Felde (formerly of KPCC) about two minutes to figure out who she was (and the panelists were wearing blindfolds).

Anyhow, after the show I made a point of introducing myself to Mrs. Heffley, who was there with her husband. And of course, I told her exactly what any other DT reader would have said: "Your're part of what I love about Dodger Stadium, and it's a shame that you don't get to play as much as in the old days, and most importantly, don't let the McCourts drive you away!" Or words to that effect.

She was very gracious and told me she gets along well with Frank and Jamie. She also told me two interesting things: first, that what she plays is on a two second tape delay, so she has to use headphones to hear it (that must really make it hard to avoid mistakes), and second that she also listens to Vinnie on the headphones and that often he will mention a song on the air as a cue to her to play it. I doubt this happens that often any more, but it was a nice story.

I don't mean to revive that argument from a few years ago about recorded music versus the organ at DS, but I thought I would share this encounter with probably the only other people in the world who would (I hope) find it interesting.

All you guys are so great to read, and you kept my spirits up even during a dreadful series like the last one, thanks to you all.

2006-06-29 15:27:09
158.   bigcpa
156 DT is no Al Jazeera! We can't let the bad guys get their message out.
2006-06-29 15:29:55
159.   Humma Kavula
157 That is awesome. I'm glad she's not bitter about things.

It's a nice moment for me when before a game I'll stop talking long enough to listen to her play something on point for the day's game. "Oh -- it's -----" I'll say, to no one in particular, who won't care.

2006-06-29 15:30:11
160.   Steve
157 -- Neat story. Is that a fun show? Among the many things Bob and I have in common is that we love old What's My Line episodes on GSN. I've thought 100 times about going to it but never have.
2006-06-29 15:32:12
161.   Humma Kavula
157 On the other hand, I really can't stand Kitty Felde. Perhaps she's a fine person of good moral standing, but she always seemed unprepared for her interviews on KPCC.
2006-06-29 15:33:57
162.   GoBears
Ha, that's funny. I'd been following along in real time, then decided it was time for a sandwich (must have been Bonnie's post), and took a break right after reading post 118. When I returned, I found that I had completely (and just barely, on both ends) missed the fireworks, and even the clean-up crew had finished work and gone home. While one is always a little curious, I'm sure I'm better off for having missed it, and I thank Jon for working to keep this site a pleasant place.
2006-06-29 15:38:33
163.   Jon Weisman
160 - That is the most wistful and wide-eyed I have ever seen Steve. What's My Line brings out the little boy in him.

I know, now I've made him blush. Shame on me.

2006-06-29 15:39:34
164.   D4P
What's My Line brings out the little boy in him.

That and Jeff Kent.

2006-06-29 15:39:35
165.   bigcpa
163 Wait, I always thought Steve was a little boy.
2006-06-29 15:40:22
166.   bigcpa
163 Wait, I always thought Steve was a little boy.
2006-06-29 15:41:14
167.   bigcpa
The Internet frightens and confuses me.
2006-06-29 15:46:02
168.   Icaros
Steve is the Care Bear with the storm clouds on his tummy.
2006-06-29 15:47:04
169.   Steve
The world would be a better place if we were all like Bennett Cerf and Arlene Francis.
2006-06-29 15:47:06
170.   deburns
Re: 144 How does this lessening of pressure by a veteran in favor of a rookie work? Is there some physiological or psycho/chemical thing going on, or is this just typical hot air? Does the rookie think: "Jeff Kent doesn't seem scared, doesn't seem to be choking, so maybe I shouldn't?" Does anybody really believe this?
2006-06-29 15:54:47
171.   ddog
161 Kitty Felde is a huge Dodger fan, and I even saw her once debate and disagree with the dreaded Bill Plaschke in a public forum, so you know she's OK. Not only that, but she was sued by Fox a few years ago because she wrote a screenplay about the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn, and Fox did not want the name "Dodgers" used without its permission. She counter-sued, and won, by the way, with her lawyer arguing successfully that the name "Dodgers" belonged to history, not just to Fox. With those credentials, it's hard not to love her.
2006-06-29 15:55:41
172.   regfairfield
170 Probably hot air. If you're a professional athlete, you've already expirenced tons of high pressure situations in your life. I don't think how you would respond to pressure would change that dramatically.
2006-06-29 15:57:35
173.   D4P
Plus, if you hadn't learned how to respond well to pressure, you probably wouldn't have made it all the way to the majors in the first place.
2006-06-29 15:58:04
174.   Humma Kavula
171 Fair enough. Taking on Plaschke is a big plus in my book.

I don't know how far I want to go in my takedown of Kitty Felde. I didn't like her, so I didn't listen to her.

2006-06-29 16:02:57
175.   underdog
170 I don't know exactly how it works but there's a scientific equation to it. Here, let me ask Professor Frink.

Actually, speaking of chemistry, Verducci's next paragraph was this: One NL G.M., however, says youth will be especially important this season, the first in which amphetamines have been banned in the big leagues. "I expect if there is an effect with amphetamines out of the game, it will show up in the second half," he says. "And the players who will have more trouble keeping their bodies ready to play are the older players."

Another Dodger related snippet from same article: "At this stage of a player's career it's about making adjustments, and Matt's been making them," Colletti says of Kemp, who at week's end was hitting .324. "Young players often succeed at first because of adrenaline and the newness of it all. But as Grady says, at this level the games do come fast. And advance scouts are very good at what they do. You learn quickly what scouts think can be exploited in your game.

"So soon after that initial rush the great unknown about a player is, Can he adjust? Matt looks like he's here to stay."

2006-06-29 16:05:21
176.   natepurcell
Okay I am a bit late but calling Navarro trash without ever a hint of criticism at the true trash (baez, carter, hamulack, etc) bleeds Midas homerism.
2006-06-29 16:05:56
177.   regfairfield
175 I'm going to have to say that "no scouting reports" is a lot more relevant than "adrenaline rush".
2006-06-29 16:06:48
178.   Fallout

oldwhatshisname would have been envious of Jon's fast response. :)

2006-06-29 16:07:07
179.   still bevens
157 I noticed during the national anthem the other day that the singer was mouthing the words well before they came over the PA, but magically the organ playing along with the PA and not the singer. I guess the headphones explain everything.
2006-06-29 16:08:15
180.   Steve
171 -- But what about the show??
2006-06-29 16:15:58
181.   natepurcell

Greg Miller article that came out today.

2006-06-29 16:16:14
182.   dzzrtRatt
157 If I'd been there, I'd have asked her if she's ever played "Celery Stalks at Midnight."

156 and earlier posts. I saw the bad posts, and this is what happened:

The Wolf: You must be Steve, which would make you GregBrock. Let's get down to brass tacks, gentlemen. If I was informed correctly, the clock is ticking, is that right, Jon?
Jon: Uh, one hundred percent.
The Wolf: Your wife... Bonnie comes home at 9:30 in the AM, is that right?
Jon: Uh-huh.
The Wolf: I was led to believe that if she comes home and finds us here, she'd wouldn't appreciate it none too much?
Jon: [laughing] She wouldn't at that.
The Wolf: That gives us exactly... forty minutes to get the f&&& out of Dodge. Which, if you do what I say when I say it, should be plenty. Now, you've got a corpse in a car, minus a head, in a garage. Take me to it.

2006-06-29 16:16:45
183.   Linkmeister
132 Marty, I'll defer to you on the quality of the Times' food section. I don't read it, but then I don't get the paper edition anyway out here in sunny Hawai'i.

But surely there's room for more than one food poster here at welcoming Dodger Thoughts?

We need a theme song, along the lines of "Green Acres:"

Dodger Thoughts is the place to be...

2006-06-29 16:25:59
184.   Humma Kavula

Bad language, we don't like to see.

2006-06-29 16:26:36
185.   underdog
Nice piece on Miller. Wonder if he'll be a September call-up.

Yikes. I didn't realize how badly the 51s week was - as bad as the Dodgers'. They were smoked by Tacoma, and one-hit in the last game. At least Miller pitched well in the one inning in the middle game.

2006-06-29 16:27:13
186.   Humma Kavula
I just adore the loge-seat scene
My computer's great, but oh, Chavez Ravine!
2006-06-29 16:28:22
187.   underdog
184 "Stop making me laugh, I really have to pee... "

"Blog spreadin' out so far and wide
Keep Anaheim, just give me the Dodgers' side."

2006-06-29 16:29:27
188.   ddog
180 -- the show was great steve. OK, perhaps the panel wasn't Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf, but they were't bad. And the lovely hostess greeting the guests was in fact lovely. I think there is another show next Wednesday night, and then off for the rest of the summer, perhaps forever. It's Perhaps the mystery guest next week will be Stan Johnston -- what exactly does he do?
2006-06-29 16:29:38
189.   Jon Weisman
I like the song!

In the picture with that article, Greg Miller has a bit of a Sad Opie look to him, doesn't he?

2006-06-29 16:32:37
190.   natepurcell
Greg Miller looks like Milkie from "Me, Myself and Irene."
2006-06-29 16:35:01
191.   underdog
Hah, you're both right. I was also thinking actor/writer Mike White (Chuck & Buck).

We should start a "separated at birth" thread in this blog at some point.

1) Cesar Izturis and Wayne Brady.

2006-06-29 16:35:41
192.   natepurcell
Another thought on Miller. There is no reason he can't be turned back into a start if his shoulder is strong enough.

He is only 21 yrs old, doesn't turn 22 until November so he has plenty of time on his side. His stuff is just wayyy to good to waste in the bullpen.

Ive seen this for awhile but Greg Miller has the best stuff out of any pitcher in our system.

2006-06-29 16:36:12
193.   natepurcell

oops, I've said this

2006-06-29 16:37:15
194.   Steve
perhaps the panel wasn't Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf

But who is? Who is? [trailing off wistfully]

2006-06-29 16:37:41
195.   thinkingblue
Dioner "league average" Navarro?
2006-06-29 16:40:23
196.   natepurcell
Dioner "league average" Navarro?

Dioner "I'm worth more then a pitcher who has been one of the worst starting pitchers in MLB baseball from 2004-2005" Navarro.

2006-06-29 16:41:14
197.   Greg Brock
182 Brilliant

I'm Superfly TNT...I'm the Guns of the Navarone.

2006-06-29 16:41:32
198.   natepurcell
also, Dioner "career .363 OBP as a 22 yr old catcher" Navarro.
2006-06-29 16:41:58
199.   regfairfield
196 Yet still better than any pitcher on that team not named Kazmir.
2006-06-29 16:42:07
200.   Humma Kavula
Dioner "We probably could have gotten more, but it's not like this wrecked the franchise, so maybe it's best if we put this in the past" Navarro.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-29 16:42:24
201.   bobbygrich
192 Hoepfully that will happen in the instructional league or AFL, they probably want to see if he can go the whole year without any significant flare ups.

BTW any word on Orenduff, injury reports are pretty sketchy from AA.

2006-06-29 16:43:55
202.   natepurcell

good point, although I just can't let someone call Navarro trash and let them get away with it.

2006-06-29 16:45:30
203.   natepurcell
BTW any word on Orenduff, injury reports are pretty sketchy from AA.

He's been out with a sore elbow the past like 5 weeks. I think they are trying to rehab it before shutting him down entirely for a Jobe speciality. Kinda sucks because I bet he would have gotten a spot start sometime this year and Oldbear can go crazy for him.

2006-06-29 16:46:03
204.   fawnkyj
I wouldn't be suprised if one day Miller becomes the future closer everybody believes Broxton will be.
2006-06-29 16:46:46
205.   thinkingblue
So when is Kershaw supposed to make his first start?
2006-06-29 16:46:59
206.   underdog
I think I'll just macro my

every few hours or so...

2006-06-29 16:48:08
207.   natepurcell

No clue, haven't heard anything. Maybe by this weekend.

2006-06-29 16:48:35
208.   Linkmeister
Jon, I trust you're cutting and pasting the lyrics into the clipboard.

Now we need musicians and GarageBand, and we can make an .mp3. We'll be the hit of the Toaster!

2006-06-29 16:55:35
209.   underdog
205 For the LA Dodgers or in the minors? How's next week work for you (for the former)? ;-)

I was going to make a really obscure 80s music reference to his last name - "Wouldn't it be good to be on your side? I got it bad, you don't know how bad I got it" - but wasn't sure it'd be worth it.

2006-06-29 16:58:07
210.   Marty
But surely there's room for more than one food poster here at welcoming Dodger Thoughts?

I was hoping the smily emoticon would ensure everyone knew I was kidding. That's why the internet invented them. Though, I have a friend who goes ballistic everytime someone uses an emoticon. Good writers don't need them, blah blah blah. So I make sure to end every sentence with one when I e-mail him :-)

2006-06-29 16:59:07
211.   thinkingblue
Dioner "my career slugging % is .39 points lower than Ramon Martinez" Navarro?
2006-06-29 17:01:48
212.   regfairfield
211 No, it's .11.
2006-06-29 17:03:55
213.   regfairfield
Antonio's up with the bases loaded in the top of the 14th.
2006-06-29 17:04:51
214.   bobbygrich
Going back to what Jon said above, it does seem that this is place to consistently go back and rehash something over and over again, which you would do in your head.

And often it something does not work out to the degree you thought it would, when you try to rationalize it, the logic seems lacking.

Let's take poker for example, by now if you have seen it on tv or played yourself (No Limit Hold em), you probably have a fair idea of what a good starting hand looks like. Last week I was playing a 1-2 NL cash game in Vegas and a guy lost a hand when a pair of nines flopped up on the board and his two pair lost to three nines. But the guy who had the three nines only had a 9/2 in his starting hand. He had stayed with that hand before the flop, even calling a $10 raise. The guy who lost was incredulous, he kept asking the guy what made him call his raise, etc. My point is that whatever answer he got, he wasn't going to accept it as making any sense.

Now lets bring this back to baseball, Joe Sheehan, a Baseball Prospectus author and someone who a lot of people here would agree with (for instance he thinks the D-Rays were the winner in the latest trade), said in the same chat that he does not know what has happened to HSC except perhaps that he was ruined by the clubs he played for by their mismanagement.

There are at least two ways to argue this point (which I will do tomorrow at the Petco event). One is that he never played for a team or manager who appreciated his skill set or two, maybe the skills that folks that BP value do not represent everything that you need to be a MLB player.

Anyways love the forum

2006-06-29 17:04:56
215.   Marty
I just got an email for the "Hulk Hogan Ultimate Grill". George Foreman better watch his back!
2006-06-29 17:05:15
216.   Linkmeister
I knew you were kidding. So was I. (I was halfway expecting "Don't call me Shirley" as a response.)
2006-06-29 17:06:56
217.   regfairfield
Antonio gets an RBI with a walk. He's showing improvement witha .222 average in his last nine at bats.
2006-06-29 17:12:34
218.   bobbygrich
If the Dodgers were injury free, here is what the Vegas lineup could have looked at right now.

C - Russ Martin
1B - James Loney
2B - Willie Aybar
SS- Wilson Valdez
3B - Andy LaRoche
LF - Joel Guzman
CF - Matt Kemp (or Ethier)
RF - Andre Ethier (or D. Young)

SP - Chad Billingsley
RP - Jonathan Broxton

No Kendrick or Weaver but this team would have probably would have sent a fair share of these guys to the Futures game or AAA All Star game.

2006-06-29 17:13:41
219.   Bob Timmermann
I put down $20 in the silent auction for the Odalis Perez autographed baseball.

If I win it, look for another Griddle contest. Or I may give it to the person who finishes last in the World Cup contest.

2006-06-29 17:14:10
220.   natepurcell

An org can only send 2 players to the Futures game but you're right about the all star game considering the AA suns are sending 9 to the Southern League all star team with 3 more that made it but have been promoted.

2006-06-29 17:14:50
221.   thinkblue0
Dioner "my career slugging % is .39 points lower than Ramon Martinez" Navarro?

that's over, what, like 3/4 of a season?

2006-06-29 17:15:10
222.   JoeyP
Its sort of bizarre that injuries hurt the team last year, but helped it this year. I guess thats the difference between being able to call up Willy Aybar instead of Mike Edwards, or Matt Kemp instead of Jason Repko, or Russell Martin instead of Jason Phillips.
2006-06-29 17:16:36
223.   natepurcell

Its bizarre until you look at who was available/ready at AAA/AA last year compared to this year. Then, it makes sense.

2006-06-29 17:19:42
224.   Jon Weisman

2006-06-29 17:21:26
225.   bobbygrich
224 Yeah I heard about it about an hour ago, that it is really sad.
2006-06-29 17:22:31
226.   bobbygrich
I'm sure Bob will say this sometime in the next day but if the Dodgers, Giants and Rockies win tomorrow, there will be a four-way tie for first place as we enter July.
2006-06-29 17:23:18
227.   Marty
224 Oh, that's really sad. I wonder if it is SIDS or just tangling up in the blanket.
2006-06-29 17:24:03
228.   natepurcell
this is uhh.. weird

2006-06-29 17:25:31
229.   Bob Timmermann
I'll be watching the Rockies tomorrow night at Safeco.

I know who I will be rooting for.


2006-06-29 17:27:32
230.   underdog
Poor Lamar... :-( Yeah, it must be SIDS. So freakish and awful.
2006-06-29 17:29:00
231.   bobbygrich
229 Does this mean I have to root for the Giants tomorrow at Petco, can't both of them lose.
2006-06-29 17:29:05
232.   natepurcell
Hershiser just said "Homeruns are sometimes rallykillers because they clear the bases."


2006-06-29 17:29:25
233.   underdog
Man, that's wild. The fact that the Giants could be in first place is basically proof as to how weak the division is again. Just when it appeared to be so much stronger a month or so ago. But I'm trying not to look at the standings; just want the Dodgers to start winning again.

Off to play soccer - night everyone!

2006-06-29 17:30:45
234.   Bob Timmermann
Some things are bigger than winning and losing.


2006-06-29 17:33:40
235.   Humma Kavula

Jon Miller: ...and that's the last out. This is very unusual, Joe -- both the Giants and the Padres managed to lose this one.

Joe Morgan: Well, Jon, neither team deserved to win this game. Neither team did the little things you need to do to win, and so, neither deserved to win. Both these teams played to lose, so neither won.

Jon Miller: But Joe -- baseball is a zero-sum game! Surely somebody had to win.

Joe Morgan: You cannot call either of these teams winners, because neither of them played to win.

Jon Miller: [pops cyanide pill]

2006-06-29 17:34:22
236.   bobbygrich
232 The only thing that I can see where a pitcher might feel that way is that once the bases are empty, the pitcher and the defense can focus solely on the batter.

They never say that but I am guessing that has something to do with it.

2006-06-29 17:36:26
237.   Fallout
228. natepurcell

Looks like the Pillsbury Doe Girl.

2006-06-29 17:37:10
238.   Humma Kavula
237 Pillsbury makes deer now?
2006-06-29 17:38:33
239.   bigcpa
231 Where would I find the Joe Sheehan chat you referred to earlier?
2006-06-29 17:39:39
240.   bigcpa
Nevermind- found it.
2006-06-29 17:40:01
241.   overkill94
236 It sounds dumb, but it's kinda true. I used to hate throwing from the stretch. Then again, I was just a high school pitcher and these guys are paid professionals.
2006-06-29 17:44:06
242.   JoeyP
No one is forcing you throw from the stretch though. I think pitchers spend too much time worrying about who's on first anyway. If he steals, so be it. Just focus on getting the batter out.

I still wonder why pitchers throw out of the stretch when there are runners on 3rd, 1st/2nd, or 2nd/3rd. I think the chances of steals in that situation are low, so why not wind up and just try to get the batter out the best you can.

2006-06-29 17:47:14
243.   overkill94
Runner on 3rd a lot of pitchers go from the wind-up, but 1st/2nd would be dumb because that would be an easy steal thus killing the DP (or simply a force) and having 2 guys in scoring position. Even Jason Phillips could steal a base if a guy's going from the wind-up.
2006-06-29 17:54:37
244.   natepurcell
I'm trying to get Casey Janssen for Cesar Izturis but the BlueJays GM is being stubborn heh.
2006-06-29 17:59:05
245.   ssjames
243 Don't tell lies, Jason Phillips couldn't steal a base, if the pitcher went from the windup and threw an Epheus pitch.
2006-06-29 18:00:34
246.   overkill94
Make it work nate
2006-06-29 18:02:24
247.   ssjames
245 Speaking of stolen bases, did anyone know that Olmedo has stolen three bases in his career. Man that must mess with a catcher's head if they gave up a steal to him. For the record, I checked, Jason Phillips has 0 stolen bases in his career.
2006-06-29 18:04:44
248.   natepurcell
Bryan Morris is pitching tonight. You can listen to it on milb gameday audio.
2006-06-29 18:07:19
249.   natepurcell
Morris' breaking ball is so good that the first batter of the game swung and miss on it and reached first because the catcher couldnt handle it.
2006-06-29 18:08:47
250.   bobbygrich
249 And I was just going to tell people that.

BTW - This is Morris' second start, still no Kershaw outing.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-06-29 18:17:14
251.   natepurcell
Morris getting hit. darn.
2006-06-29 18:18:50
252.   natepurcell
Terrible defense in Ogden.
2006-06-29 18:26:13
253.   Fallout
241 overkill94

A lot pitchers lose something in the stretch. Also, if you are comfortable in your wind-up and getting guys out(meaning you are always pitching in a wind-up), it often takes awhile to get a grove in the stretch.

242 JoeyP S-a-y What? (think Jim Healy)

2006-06-29 18:27:30
254.   Humma Kavula
The Ogden play-by-play announcer is better than Monday.
2006-06-29 18:30:32
255.   natepurcell

a Sign Language knowledgable gorilla is better then Monday.

2006-06-29 18:33:20
256.   thinkingblue
Monday would have said "the ball gravitated towards the ground" on that curve.
2006-06-29 18:37:43
257.   Humma Kavula
Fifth K for Morris!
2006-06-29 18:41:03
258.   natepurcell

right now, I don't really care about hits or runs allowed for Morris. K's and bbs are what he should be focusing on.

2006-06-29 18:43:51
259.   Humma Kavula
Good to know... teach me.

What about HR?

2006-06-29 18:44:57
260.   natepurcell
Van Slyke! 3 run homer.

Maybe this will bust him out of his slump.

2006-06-29 18:45:58
261.   Humma Kavula
Ogden ties it up.

I love the play-by-play guy! After Herndon gives up the HR to Van Slyke, he says, "Welcome to the Pioneer League."

2006-06-29 18:46:28
262.   natepurcell

Not really too worried about homeruns with a curveball pitcher in a pretty big hitters league like the pioneer league. Mosr of those stadiums are in very high altitudes.

2006-06-29 18:47:50
263.   thinkingblue
When you're hot, you're hot (or so Stiener would have said).
2006-06-29 18:48:39
264.   Humma Kavula
I do like to see the box score -- right there, at the bottom:

Martin C

Just like Grady's lineup.

2006-06-29 18:49:15
265.   Icaros
How is Van Slyke rated speed-wise?

Andy was pretty fast, IIRC.

2006-06-29 18:49:29
266.   bobbygrich
Sounds like there is pretty bad defense all the way around (could stick in a jab at their parent club but don't want to jinx the weekend.)
2006-06-29 18:57:26
267.   bobbygrich
What do you know about Jonathan Dutton LHP drafted in 2005, he's now 2-0, 11 IP, 13 H+BB, 12 K.

I guess that first inning brought up Morris's pitch count so he could only throw 2 innings today.

2006-06-29 18:59:21
268.   thinkingblue
2 IP, but he struck out 5?
2006-06-29 19:00:20
269.   natepurcell

Dutton was drafted in the 2005 draft late, out of a HS in san diego. I honestly didn't realize we signed him until he showed up on the GCL roster this summer. He is only 18 and left handed which means he is a sleeper and someone we should keep an eye on. I don't know much about his stuff yet though. But he is listed at 160lbs or something so he obviously needs to get bigger and stronger.

2006-06-29 19:00:43
270.   CanuckDodger
As long as a pitcher isn't on the old side for the Pioneer League, runs surrendered are pretty irrelevent. Elbert's ERA was over 5.00 in the Pioneer League in 2004, and Johnson The Elder's was in the mid-6.00 range.
2006-06-29 19:00:57
271.   bobbygrich
BTW last year back to back draft picks:
13th round Steven Johnson
14th round Scott Van Slyke

I'm sure Nate (among others) is hoping for similar results with Akins and White also being drafted 13th and 14th respectively.

268 Had a K but a wild pitch awarded first base to the first hitter of the game.

2006-06-29 19:01:00
272.   natepurcell
2 IP, but he struck out 5?

first inning he struck out the first batter but he reached base because the ball got by the catcher.

2006-06-29 19:02:41
273.   natepurcell

yes very much so. White is looking for 1 mil though so I think we have a better shot at signing local kid Akins then White. But I would love to have both. And D'alessio. I want him too.

2006-06-29 19:06:54
274.   bobbygrich
I saw a note where the Dodgers did not sign Dutton until August which means they probably sent him to the instructional league but his first pro year will be this year so they 3 more years of development after this season.
2006-06-29 19:07:28
275.   CanuckDodger
267 -- After the Dodgers signed Jon Dutton last year, it was said of him that he has an 87-89 MPH fastball that occasionally reaches 90-91, and that he also throws a slider, a change-up, and a split-finger fastball. Logan White said that Dutton has a good delivery and a lot of projectibility.
2006-06-29 19:09:05
276.   natepurcell
Thanks Canuck. Do you know of any links where i can find some literature on Dutton?

I think he has some projection left in him since he only weighs 160lbs.

2006-06-29 19:11:52
277.   bobbygrich
273 You saw that article where White said the Dodgers know his price, it will just depend on how they judge his summer.

D'alessio sounds like he wants at least 3rd round money, so we will see, the next signee will probably the first baseman from Canada.

2006-06-29 19:23:30
278.   Sam DC
Was offline most of the day and almost skipped the thread tonight. But of course I couldn't and I'm very glad to have read through. Unlurker Day, what a good thing. If anyone's proof that you can happily join the crowd at Dodger Thoughts if you love baseball, regardless of whether or not you know anything about baseball, it's me.

I missed the fireworks, of course. Very funny presentation for the unexpecting -- Marty's talking smack about being the number one food commenter, than someone else says "oh my" and then someone remarks on landing in the middle of a shooting war, and I'm thinking, "I think Marty was kidding people . . ."

Anyhow, all the good DT vibe has me ramped up for the All-Star break pledge drive -- People get ready, there's a (low pressure, only if you can, feel no obligation) fundraising train a coming . . . .

2006-06-29 19:27:41
279.   bobbygrich
276 John Dutton, LHP Local player from Rancho Bernardo High School...Record of 8-1 as a junior with a 2.02 earned run average.
SDSU Pitching Coach Rusty Filter: "John is a talented left-handed hurler who was one of Rancho Bernardo's top pitchers on a senior-dominated staff. Even though he went 8-1 as a junior, he kind of escaped a lot of attention. We look for him to develop physically, and as he does he could become a dominant pitcher at the collegiate level. Also, he has the confidence of having played in one of the top programs in the country under Sam Blalock."
2006-06-29 19:49:26
280.   thinkingblue
What was Morris line?
2006-06-29 19:54:32
281.   bobbygrich
280 2IP 5H 4ER 1BB 5K 1HR
2006-06-29 20:06:11
282.   natepurcell
some defensive metrics for you up to this point in the season.

good (anything positive)
Martin 0.4
Ethier 5.0 (really good)
Nomar 3.3

bad (anything negative)
Drew -3.3
lofton -3.4
furcal -6.6
mueller -2.6
kent -1.5

2006-06-29 20:06:45
283.   natepurcell
oops heres the link

2006-06-29 20:08:16
284.   StolenMonkey86
I'm gonna hop on the thing about Andre Ethier and ask what the complaint about the guy is. The best thing I can come up with is that you want a better BB/K ratio from a guy from Oakland.

He's got an OPS of .853 as a rookie, versus JD Drew's .846. His BA has been there consistently, although his power has faded (.373 SLG in June). Maybe it's just not a good month; Jeff Kent had a .189/.310/.244 line in April, and he's been playing since Ethier was 10 (to the day if you want some really freaky trivia). But if hitting .317 is having a bad month, then this guy's a future first ballot hall-of-famer! Is it the 5 GDP's (Nomar and Lofton are tied for the team lead with 8)? Kemp does only have 1.

Kemp reminds me a bit of Repko in as much as he's too raw. His fielding needs a little refinement, and he needs more plate discipline, a lot more. He's got more power, which gives him a nice OPS of .894.

The point is that Ethier and Kemp have room to improve, and they both will. Whether Ethier will be a home run machine is still hard to say, and he's not speedy on the bases like Kemp, but there's still room for improvement.

2006-06-29 20:19:15
285.   Greg Brock
Pirates demote Oliver Perez:

2006-06-29 20:19:16
286.   overkill94
If Ethier can hit around .300 with 15 homers a year I don't think anyone would complain. I think the hitting .300 part is doable, but the real test is whether he can develop consistent 15-HR power. He showed good flashes in May, but June was quite disappointing in the power department.
2006-06-29 20:32:13
287.   StolenMonkey86
Based on Nate's metric, I give you the Jose Offerman commemorative indefensible defense

C - Victor Martinez (CLE)
1B - Paul Konerko (CHW)
2B - Luis Castillo (MIN)
3B - Miguel Cabrera (FLA)
SS - Angel Berroa (KC)
CF - Gary Matthews, Jr (TEX)
LF - Preston Wilson (HOU)
RF - Jeromy Burnitz (PIT)

and the Theoretical Gold Gloves

C - Ramon Hernandez (BAL)
1B - Chris Shelton (DET)
2B - Placido Polanco (DET)
3B - Mike Lowell (BOS)
SS - Adam Everett (HOU)
CF - Carlos Beltran (NYM)
LF - Ryan Langerhans (ATL)
RF - Brad Hawpe (COL)

2006-06-29 20:34:23
288.   Greg Brock
287 How silly of you. Everybody knows that you win a Gold Glove by batting over .290
2006-06-29 20:34:29
289.   D4P
"We hope that by making a series of starts down there, he can regain his consistency," manager Jim Tracy said. "We hope he can relax and have the opportunity to think through a lot of the things that we've been working on with him."

There's your problem.

2006-06-29 20:34:41
290.   overkill94
287 That's weird, I always thought Luis Castillo was supposed to be an excellent defender. Maybe the turf and his bad hip are giving him some problems this year.
2006-06-29 20:36:40
291.   natepurcell

I agree. I was about to say that. That turf in minny is brutal.

2006-06-29 20:39:17
292.   JoeyP
I dont think Kemp's that raw at the plate, considering he's 21.

He walks more than Ethier.
He sees more pitches per at bat than Ethier.
He hits for more power than Ethier.
He hits the ball in the air more than Ethier.

I just think there's still a biasness in baseball against 3TO hitters. Power guys strike out. They always have. I dont think Kemp is going to change that.

Kemp/Repko have athleticism in common, but I dont see much else. Repko was 24 when he came up and was for the most part brutal. Kemp's been great so far.

I think considering their ages, Kemp has alot more room for improvement than Ethier/Repko.

Talked about this last nite, but I dont see the difference between Ethier and Cody Ross. I doubt either is anything more than a 4th OF'er at this point, with Cody getting a slight edge bc he can play CF. I'll be surprised if Ethier hits .300 all year. If he played CF, he'd have a lot bright future I think (talking about Ethier). Maybe they can convert him?

2006-06-29 20:42:06
293.   Marty
292 Joey I love you, but biasness?

bias is bias is bias :-)

2006-06-29 20:44:05
294.   StolenMonkey86
Player 1 - 1998 (99 career AB before)
11 HR, .233/.298/.384

Player 2 - 1997 (rookie year)
26 HR, .248/.315/.499

Which would you rather have?

2006-06-29 20:45:32
295.   overkill94
While we're evaluating all these players' futures...

would you trade Chris Capuano in the final year of his contract along with Jim Edmonds at $29 (so neither are keepers) for Kemp at $1 through 2008 and JtD at $4 through 2008?

2006-06-29 20:51:36
296.   coachjpark
29 I'm almost done reading Fantasyland by Sam Walker - pretty good book for roto geeks out there...
2006-06-29 20:52:05
297.   coachjpark
295 That is...
2006-06-29 21:03:18
298.   Greg Brock
I would love to know the preferred baseball books among my beloved DT brethren. I have my favorites, but I'm much more interested in what you guys think.

Fiction/Nonfiction, doesn't matter.

2006-06-29 21:08:02
299.   Marty
The Great American Novel -- Philip Roth (my favorite baseball book ever)
The Natural -- Bernard Malamud (Avoid the movie at all costs)

Ball Four -- Jim Bouton (my first awareness of greenies)
Best of Dodger Thoughts -- J. Weisman (can't sing, can't act, can write a little)

2006-06-29 21:09:27
300.   overkill94
296 I've heard good things about it, but reading books isn't exactly my thing :)
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-06-29 21:13:37
301.   Greg S
298. Best baseball book I ever read was Lords Of The Realm by John Helyar. This is the guy who wrote Barbarians At The Gate and was a Wall Street Journal reporter on baseball. Amazing history of the business of baseball and specifically free agency. I think it's out of print now but can be found used on Amazon. I bought 5 copies and gave them all away over the years. Absolute must read.
2006-06-29 21:16:23
302.   das411
Just wanted to say hi to all the new un-lurkers today. You may not think you have much to contribute yet, but the beauty of blogs like this is that one can always create their own niche to fit into...

288, meet Brad Ausmus.

298 -

Sidd Finch, by Plimpton
Underworld, Don DeLillo

The Worst Team Money Could Buy, Bob Klapisch
Juiced, Jose Canseco ;)

2006-06-29 21:16:27
303.   Greg Brock
301 Barbarians at the Gate is one of my favorite books of all time. If F. Ross Johnson didn't exist, you'd have to make him up.
2006-06-29 21:20:40
304.   Marty
302 Ahh Underworld. Absolutely amazing prologue, but I can never get through the book (I've tried 4 times). But man, that prologue sends chills through me.
2006-06-29 21:21:19
305.   Greg S
303. Same could be said for many of the owners throughout baseball history. Same amazing but true characters and stories. MUCH better than fiction.
2006-06-29 21:25:14
306.   natepurcell
We need a nickname for Hendrickson and Hall.

Dray fans called Hendrickson "Lurch" and Hall "Tubby" after teletubbies.

We need our own!

2006-06-29 21:26:42
307.   natepurcell
also, predictions on Hendrickson's numbers for the Dodgers the rest of this year?
2006-06-29 21:27:06
308.   Greg Brock
305 If you liked Barbarians, you should really read Kurt Eichenwald's "Conspiracy of Fools". "Smartest Guys in the Room" is the fast-food version of the Enron fiasco, but Eichenwald's book is deeper, better written, and (if you can understand rudimentary economics) way more informative.
2006-06-29 21:30:13
309.   bobbygrich
Best Books
1. The Baseball Reader: Favorites from the Fireside Book of Baseball (1983) (Transcript of Vinny's call of the 9th inning of Koufax's perfect game, among other great reads, Mike Royko's piece on why he hates New York is classic)
2. Eight Men Out, Eliot Asinof (More reporting than story telling but goes into the details of why those players acted the way they did)
3. The Glory of Their Times, Lawrence Ritter (Just some great stories about the beginning of baseball)
2006-06-29 21:37:14
310.   bobbygrich
At least he did not walk anyone.
Greg Miller gave up 2 runs and 3 hits, the first 3 batters got singles on the first 8 pitches thrown that inning, he then got a strike out and two ground outs. 24 pitches and only 12 strikes in one inning of work.
2006-06-29 21:41:56
311.   StolenMonkey86
292 - Kemp's had a few miscues in the field. And he's got a better walk rate, but also a worse K rate.

Does Kemp get the ball in the air more? He has a 1.25 GO/AO vs Ethier's .97.

Ethier's not gonna be a big power guy probably, but I think he'll at least hit for average and give you a .800 OPS.

It's weird to argue these two, though. But we're just an injury away from not having to argue.

2006-06-29 21:42:50
312.   coachjpark
307 4.79 ERA, 1.45 WHIP, 5-6
2006-06-29 21:45:14
313.   das411
See Marty, I just got hooked at the prologue and then powered through the rest of it in just about a week. Of course, that was a week down in Florida when the only thing I had to do all day was read...

306 - Nate, you could confuse Padre fans everywhere by calling Hendrickson "Gwynne"!

2006-06-29 21:45:39
314.   StolenMonkey86
306 - Let's give them time to have a defining moment first.

307 - either Danys Baez or Bronson Arroyo. Nothing in between.

2006-06-29 21:46:52
315.   Underbruin
311 - Yeah, but that's only concerning outs. I think more of Kemp's hits have been fly balls (though this has zero statistical basis and I'm probably way off).

307 - 4.12 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, 7-7. I think he'll regress a bit, but DS is more of a pitcher's park and he won't be pitching on that turf (if it's anything like Minny's, it's gotta be rough on fielders).

298 - Moneyball. =P

2006-06-29 21:48:25
316.   LAT
Marty, I'm gaining on you. Wife gave me a great cookbook "Sunday Suppers At Loques". Made a couple of items and they were off the chart.
2006-06-29 21:52:02
317.   Uncle Miltie
I'm thinking of going to one of the games this weekend. I love watching the Dodgers play at Angel Stadium because half of the fans there are Dodgers fans. Unfortunately, a lot of my friends are going away over the weekend because of July 4th.
2006-06-29 21:52:44
318.   Underbruin
Regarding food, I'm no great cook, but one "dish" that was surprisingly easy to make and tasted great was the Chinois Chicken Salad (recipes available all over the 'net) - for beginners trying to make something pretty simple but edible by most people, I'd highly recommend it.

I'm not Marty or bonnie or LAT or whoever... But it was darn good. :)

2006-06-29 21:56:49
319.   Marty
LAT, do you mean Luques? That's a Susan Goins restaurant that I really want to go to but haven't yet. I'll have to look up that book and try some of the recipes.

Saturday, I'll be at Napa Rose, a restaurant at the Disney California Hotel that is really good. It's a friend of mine's 50th birthday party.

2006-06-29 22:01:33
320.   thinkingblue
For Hendrickson, it depends.

First, he will face the angels. Not a huge threat.

Then the Giants, and depending on if he starts the first or second game after the all star game, he'll start one or two games against the cardinals, he will also face the Padres, or Nationals soon.

If he starts the first game, he will only face the cards once.

If the starts the second, he'll face them twice.

So obviously, let's hope he only starts one against the cards.

2006-06-29 22:01:34
321.   Marty
319 Actually, it's my friend from Fort Dodge Iowa whose family your wife knows.
2006-06-29 22:02:15
322.   coachjpark
317 Which game is Hendrickson starting?
2006-06-29 22:18:47
323.   LAT
319. Marty, yes I meant Luques. Her resturants are great. AOC is one of my favorites. As between Luques and AOC I'd go with AOC first but you can't go wrong with either one.

Did you ever ask her if she knows the Koppen family. Lisa, Lynn or Teri? (Teri is my wife)

2006-06-29 22:24:10
324.   Marty
I know I asked my friend, but I think your wife knew her little sister. I'll ask her to ask the sister this Saturday.
2006-06-29 22:46:48
325.   Steve
302 -- das411, for instance, is our resident Rue McClanahan and Estelle Getty expert.
2006-06-29 22:47:20
326.   Linkmeister
Baseball books. Hmm. I own 26 books tagged baseball at so let's see what they are:

2006-06-30 00:21:15
327.   JoeyP
Does Kemp get the ball in the air more? He has a 1.25 GO/AO vs Ethier's .97

I get my data from ESPN. Ethier.
It shows Ethier at 1.42 G/F.
It shows Kemp at 1.09 G/F.

I'm pretty sure Kemp hits the ball in the air more often (when he hits the ball), than Ethier does.

2006-06-30 00:42:52
328.   JoeyP
I think I understand what StolenMonkey is referring to though.

Ethier actually hits the ball in the air more than Kemp does, if we factor in strikeouts:
This is from ESPN so its not up to date:
Kemp- 76ABs FB- 28.9% GB-31.6% Ks: 39.5%

Ethier-108Abs FB-30.6%, GB-43.5% Ks: 25.9% GIDP:4.6%

Martin-130Abs FB-26.9% GB-56.2% Ks: 16.9% GIDP:4.6%

Either Martin is extemely fast or extemely lucky. I cant believe Ethier/Martin have the same GIDP rate, when Martin hits the ball on the ground alot more.

After looking at these lineups, its definitely possible that Ethier hits for a higher average than Kemp. I'd even say its probable. He hits a higher percentage/ab of balls in the air. I didnt realize that before. However, I think Kemp will have the higher OBP bc he walks more, and probably will hit for more power, as he doesnt hit the ball on the ground as much.

I still believe Martin is in for a large regression. But Ethier's surprised me. He's done a better job than I've realized.

2006-06-30 01:18:26
329.   Greg Brock
For those of you that care about college football (and decent people), Northwestern Head Coach Randy Walker died of a heart attack this evening in Illinois.

VANSTON, Ill. -- Northwestern University football coach Randy Walker died of an apparent heart attack Thursday night. He was 52.

Walker died after feeling chest pains around 10 p.m. at his suburban Chicago home, said Mike Wolf, the school's assistant athletic director for media services.

"This is a devastating loss, not only for our athletic program, but for the entire Northwestern community," athletic director Mark Murphy said in a statement early Friday. "Randy truly embraced Northwestern and its mission, and cared deeply for his student-athletes, both on and off the field."

Walker was the first Northwestern coach to lead the school to three bowl games. The Wildcats lost to UCLA 50-38 in the Sun Bowl last December.

In October 2004, Walker checked himself into a hospital after experiencing chest pains. He was diagnosed with myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle; the condition is not a common ailment, and is usually caused by a virus.

2006-06-30 01:50:16
330.   bobbygrich
This will probably be talked about later today but two stories in today's LA Times, one is another piece about the Dodger system with a little more insight about philosophy.

And then something that I have thought about for a while, the possibility of Jeff Weaver possilbly coming back to the Dodgers?

2006-06-30 01:56:03
331.   Uncle Miltie
And then something that I have thought about for a while, the possibility of Jeff Weaver possilbly coming back to the Dodgers?
If the Angels are going to release him or give him away I'd definitely do it. Odalis + $10 million cash for Weaver?
2006-06-30 02:11:29
332.   bobbygrich
331 Weaver Could Come Cheap
By Bill Shaikin
Times Staff Writer

The Angels might send Weaver to the bullpen — or release him — if they cannot trade him. The Dodgers are looking for another pitcher.

... He signed a one-year deal with the Angels instead, but he has not pitched well and they have not played well. The Angels would like to make room in their starting rotation for his younger brother, Jered.

Jeff Weaver is making $8.3 million this season, but the Angels already have paid half and might pay some of the remaining half in a trade. If they release him and he signs with another team, the Angels would be responsible for all but a prorated part of the $327,000 minimum salary.

2006-06-30 02:22:52
333.   bobbygrich
It maybe hard to believe but according to this article, there is a plan when it comes to the Dodgers draft philosophy in the Logan White era.

"The plan was this: Avoid the high-end free agents when possible, because of their cost not just in big-league payroll, but in compensatory draft picks. When the Dodgers courted Vladimir Guerrero after the 2003 season, for instance, he had not been offered arbitration by the Montreal Expos, and therefore was not subject to those compensation rules."

And this: Just pick the best player. Although the draft swung toward college players, and still leans toward them, the Dodgers have fairly consistently selected high school players. Of their current top 10 prospects, five (Billingsley, Broxton, Scott Elbert, Blake DeWitt, Kemp) were drafted out of high school, two (Andy LaRoche, Martin) out of junior college and three (Guzman, Tony Abreu, Chin-Lung Hu) were foreign-born, undrafted free agents. In the 2006 draft, the Dodgers, in the seventh spot, took the first prep player — left-hander Clayton Kershaw, from Dallas.

Through his research, White came to believe the "Moneyball" system had devalued the high school player, leaving better prep players available later in the draft. Because the Dodgers generally picked middle to late in the first round, he said, "For a good college guy to get to us at 24 or so, somebody's going to have to make a mistake."

White also found that although exceptional high school players — those who become everyday major leaguers and All-Stars — generally take longer to reach the major leagues than college players, the difference was less than he thought: half a year to a year.

He asked his area scouts to be especially aware of a player's competitive makeup, then trusted the scouts' judgments. In the 2003 draft, the Dodgers believed Kemp, who split his time between baseball and basketball at Midwest City High in Oklahoma, probably could be had in the 12th round or later, but selected him in the sixth.

"Logan loved the kid," Evans said, "and he relied on the area scout."

Even with the signings of Lowe, Kent, Drew, Furcal, and Mueller, the Dodgers have only lost one first round pick in 2005 (as well as their supplemental when Hochevar did not sign).

2006-06-30 05:19:36
334.   Andrew Shimmin
I can't see the Angels wanting any part of Odalis. They're looking to dump Weaver because they've got too many starting pitchers (and because he's been awful). Why would they want a new, awful pitcher with a longer contract, even if he Dodgers picked up most of the tab? And how much money can McCourt have, anyway? He's made his point about having plenty of money to burn, but how high can he be willing to let the payroll get?
2006-06-30 06:06:40
335.   Andrew Shimmin
Also, I don't know if there'll be room for Weaver, once we acquire Casey Fossum and Rob Bell.
2006-06-30 06:17:44
336.   Andrew Shimmin
Mark Geragos is defending Barry Bonds's old trainer. If I'm ever on a jury and he's one of the lawyers, I'll have just cause to be excused--I just can't believe he's ever had an innocent client.

2006-06-30 07:51:38
337.   Midwest Blue
My 3 point pitching plan:
Wait for the Angels to DFA Weaver.
Pick-up Weaver for the league minimum.
DFA Oh-Dallas.

All works out in the wash.

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