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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Why I'd Make a Bad General Manager
2006-07-05 16:20
by Jon Weisman

Shopping is not a passion of mine; it's more like an thorn. Most of the time, I don't have a good feeling going in. Whether it's clothes or technology or what have you, no matter how much research I do or how good my instincts seem at the moment of selection, it's always a pleasant surprise when something actually turns out to be a good purchase.

I've got some shirts in my closet that I've been wearing for years and years (too long for the fashion-conscious, but I like 'em) and others that bear witness to ill-fated choices. I got nearly 20 years out of the stereo I bought during high school, but hold my breath that this DVD player will finally be the one that doesn't break. Infernal machines!

I leased a car in 2002 and have now decided I will probably buy it instead of turning it in. That's not the financially savvy way to do things, but I decided to not to punish myself for figuring things out along the way.

I don't really have a shopping philosophy, beyond trying to spend as little as possible on most days so that I don't feel bad if I blow some money on the other days.

Anyway, I'm just glad no one analyzes my transactions, because it would get pretty ugly.

Is it reasonable to expect a baseball general manager to inspire more confidence than me at the mall? Probably. But I don't expect every move to work out. I might evaluate every move, but in the end, all I'm looking for is overall improvement, for the short term and the long term.

* * *

Former Dodger catcher Dioner Navarro and his wife and son escaped serious injury after his car was struck and flipped, The Associated Press reports (thanks to reader Jasonungar05 for the note). That's a big relief. Navarro has had to endure a lot of trauma - his wife suffered a brain aneurysm 2 1/2 years ago. In this recent feature story by Marc Topkin the St. Petersburg Times, you can learn more about the story and see a picture of the family - as well as read more about Navarro, the player.

* * *

Tonight's Game

Comments (524)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-05 17:05:21
1.   Tommy John
Does anyone here watch AAA games? Is it normal for there to be as many HBP batters as, for example, the sampling of games below?
(and as I understand it Quentin has been hit 27 times this year)

Las Vegas-Tucson AAA baseball:

June 21 – Quentin (Tucson) HBP, Lundberg

June 22 – Quentin (Tucson) HBPx2, Osoria and Houlton

June 23 - Quentin (Tuscon) HBP, Wunsch

June 30
Loney (Vegas) HBP, Jarvis

July 2
Langill (Vegas) HBP, Nippert

July 3
Aybar (Vegas) HBP, Bacsik
Young (Tucson) HBP, Hull
Owings (Tucson) HBP, Hull

"The Sidewinders blew the game open with an ugly 7th inning. 2 walks and a hit by pitch loaded the bases with no outs. After a strike out and a sac fly made it 8-0, Micah Owings was called in to pinch-hit for Bacsik. Owings was hit in the head by a pitch and though he wasn't injured, he was very angry and had to be escorted off the field by his manager." (July 3)

2006-07-05 17:08:49
2.   Bluebleeder87
I've got a couple of shirt's that have hot souce stains till this day (old high school shirts) will I retire them NO WAY!!

PS you should see my LA dodger hat (I've had it for 10 years)

2006-07-05 17:10:58
3.   Marty
So, as Keith Jackson would say, is tonight going to be an old-fashioned donnybrook?
2006-07-05 17:11:18
4.   DXMachina
Well said. I hate buying cars. However, I do have somewhat higher expectations for Ned's shopping abilities, if for no other reason than that he's got professionals in the field presumably providing him with input to help him make these decisions. That's supposed to help. That said, Ned has done better than I expected. He's not great, but I don't think he's killed us. I can't think of any GM's who haven't made bad trades. Hey, the patron saint of moneyball gave us Ethier, and really hasn't gotten much at all out of what we gave him.
2006-07-05 17:12:31
5.   Vishal
donnybrook is one of my favorite words.
2006-07-05 17:13:30
6.   Bluebleeder87
7-4, 4.82

his #'s don't look so good.

2006-07-05 17:13:50
7.   Jon Weisman
3 - I hope not. The comments from Green and Gonzalez were really irritating, how every HBP against them was intentional but every HBP against the Dodgers was not. But it's all so pointless. Just play ball.
2006-07-05 17:15:16
8.   Bluebleeder87

were dose it come from? (I've never ever heard it before)

2006-07-05 17:16:43
9.   Bluebleeder87

Jon I see your point, but don't agree with it.

2006-07-05 17:16:57
10.   ToyCannon
From BA Hot Sheet:
" Not enough of a prospect for the Hot Sheet, too young for Blast From The Past and too old for Helium Watch, it is a conundrum that we often face when putting together this list.

This week, the player that fits that bill is Dodgers righthander T.J. Nall. The 25-year-old moved into the Double-A Jacksonville rotation on May 28 and since then he has won all eight of his starts. In those eight starts, he has 77 strikeouts in 61 innings with a 1.33 ERA. Opponents are hitting just .167 against him.

An eighth-round pick in 1999 out of Schaumberg (Ill.) High, is having by far the most successful season of his career. The only other stop in his minor league career that would approach it would be his 43 innings of relief for low Class A South Georgia in 2002 when he posted a 0.63 ERA. He didn't make Hot Sheet because he is not enough of a prospect (short righthander with fringe-average stuff) at this point, but his performance warrants mentioning."

and this


Steven Johnson, rhp, Dodgers (Rookie-level Ogden)
The son of ex-major leaguer Dave Johnson, Steven turned heads last spring when he beat Brandon Erbe in a contest of Maryland's top two prep arms. His senior spring included a perfect game, a no-hitter, two one-hitters and two two-hitters. Wooed away from Boston College after being selected in the 12th round, Johnson has been fantastic in the Rookie-level Pioneer League. In his last two starts, the righthander hasn't allowed a run in 13 innings, striking out 18 while allowing just 6 baserunners."

2006-07-05 17:18:00
11.   Marty
8 After Donnybrook fair, held annually in Donnybrook, a suburb of Dublin, Ireland, and noted for its brawls.
2006-07-05 17:18:58
12.   Tommy John
Furcal, SS

Izzy, 3B

Nomar, 1B

Drew, RF

Kent, 2B

Ethier, LF

Kemp, CF

Martin, C

Penny, P

2006-07-05 17:22:42
13.   Greg Brock
Everything is even. They dosed five guys, Green took one in the buttocks, and everything should be settled. If the D-Backs plunk somebody, I'm pretty sure there is going to be a big problem. Probably not a donnybrook, but maybe a fracas.
2006-07-05 17:22:45
14.   Linkmeister
11 This baseball site is in danger of turning into a place which might educate me about something. I'd never known that before. Thanks, Marty.
2006-07-05 17:23:31
15.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Nice story on Dioner. I still wish we kept him, but his defense might just always be a liability. I have a friend who caught seriously up to college tell me that he really thinks a lot of catching can't be taught, and Navarro's already beyond the point of significant improvement on that score.

I don't think we'll have much beanball today. The Snakes should be smart enough to just let the Baez throw yesterday settle it.

Of course, what'd be really ironic is if a batter gets hit unintentionally, but with tensions so high, the other team will see it as deliberate, and we'll see a full-scale brawl.


2006-07-05 17:24:09
16.   Bluebleeder87

cool, I don't know peepz but today sounds like one of those days (depending on how many runs the Dodgers score)

2006-07-05 17:25:07
17.   Bob Timmermann
Who would have thought a word for a wide scale fistfight would have been inspired by the Irish?

I prefer the metaphor "Pier Six Brawl."

There is also the less popular "Pier One Brawl" that involves fighting with Kirstie Alley using furniture that's made of rattan.

2006-07-05 17:25:11
18.   ninjavshippo
13 i'm expecting shenanigans if anyone gets dotted. if they hit r-mart on the hand again, i'll be coming from backstage with a folding chair, myself.
2006-07-05 17:25:47
19.   Jon Weisman
13 - Before anyone asks, that word comes from the famous brawls of Fracas, Bolivia.
2006-07-05 17:26:36
20.   Benaiah
I love our lineup 3-8, unlike last year where most of the time we had only 2 or 3 productive spots. But why oh why are the two worst hitters on the team batting 1 and 2?
2006-07-05 17:29:17
21.   ninjavshippo

Either (1) to showcase Izturis for a trade (that still happening?) or (2) to light multiple, raging fires under nomar/drew/kent in lofton's absence.

2006-07-05 17:29:38
22.   D4P
Is it reasonable to expect a baseball general manager to inspire more confidence than me at the mall? Probably. But I don't expect every move to work out

While it's not reasonable to expect every move to work out, it is reasonable to expect every move to "make sense" at the time it was made. As has been pointed out, GMs have access to information that fans do not, and thus a move that appears to make no sense to fans may in fact make sense given that confidential information. However, it's also the case that fans may pay more attention to certain (universally available) information than do some GMs, such that (from a certain perspective) fans can be "correct" that a move doesn't make sense.

As a fan, then, the problem is that we probably never know whether the information we don't have access to would influence our evaluation of a transaction at the time is made, and can only base our eval on the information available to us. As a result, I guess opinions will differ as to whether fans should or should not avoid evaluating transactions.

2006-07-05 17:29:56
23.   Greg Brock
8 Baseball=pill
Take a dose= you get it.
2006-07-05 17:30:59
24.   D4P
to showcase Izturis for a trade (that still happening?)

This approach has a significant probability of backfiring.

2006-07-05 17:33:17
25.   Andrew Shimmin
In 8, dose=does
2006-07-05 17:34:09
26.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 24

Actually, it's worked so far, since I don't think anyone really thinks Izzy can hit. If he shoes a good glove at 3B, that should re-establish his rep as an excellent defensive SS, which is where most of his value is.


2006-07-05 17:34:16
27.   LAT
If you are Mr or Mrs. Gotlots with the fat wallet and go to Nordstroms or Saks they have personal shoppers for you. These are people who shop for a living, have good taste and know what is in style. In the baseball world, GMs are professional shoppers. They are not you or me wondering around the mall on blue light special day. They are supposed to know what their team needs and how to get it.

I don't expect every deal to work out. Of course there are going to be bad ones. Even with George's money the Yankees make mistakes (lots of them). But viewing Ned's deals as a whole, I do not think he has improved this team. It is unfair to look at individual deals. You can't look at Baez or Furcal without looking at Nomar or Sele. So taking Ned's transactions as a whole, given the chance I would undo the whole lot of them. And before everyone jumps on me about this years record being better than last. He does not get credit for the prospects (except Ethier) and has not suffered the devistating injuries the 2005 team did. Improving a team is not necessarily all about the record.

2006-07-05 17:39:02
28.   D4P
It is unfair to look at individual deals. You can't look at Baez or Furcal without looking at Nomar or Sele

I'm not sure I buy that. It's not a zero-sum game, and bad trades don't have to be made to balance out good ones. For the most part, trades are independent, and no number of good trades excuses a trade that made no sense at the time it was made.

2006-07-05 17:39:16
29.   JoeyP
and Navarro's already beyond the point of significant improvement on that score.

I think Navarro's bad defense is exaggerated. He's thrown out 3/4 baserunners in Tampa, and has always had a good CERA. Its not like Russ Martin has shut down the opponents running game.

But sometimes reputations can be made on a few given plays. Navarro's WP's against earlier in the year, kinda remind me of last year's series against the Cards when Choi played 1st. He then gets a reputation that he cant play defense.

2006-07-05 17:42:22
30.   Gagne55
Izzy is a 3B-1. Aybar is at best a 3B-4. That makes up for the difference in their bats. That doesn't mean he should hit at the top of the order, though...
2006-07-05 17:42:36
31.   DaveP
speaking of catchers who can't throw out baserunners, Victor Martinez is getting abused by the Yankees tonight. The Yankees are running at will - 6 out of 6 through 4 2/3 innings.
2006-07-05 17:42:38
32.   Johnson
10 I don't know anything at all about Nall, but 103/14 K/BB in 81 innings is a nice set of numbers, even if he is old for his league.
2006-07-05 17:44:07
33.   JoeyP
If he shoes a good glove at 3B, that should re-establish his rep as an excellent defensive SS,

Playing 3rd base is quite a bit different than playing SS. I dont think teams will ever question what kind of glove Izturis has. He has 5yrs worth of good glove work to look at. Its the question of his arm strength coming back from his surgery, and whether he can make the throw from deep in the hole at SS. I also think Izzy's range lacked last year bc he bulked up, and playing 3rd doesnt really give Izzy much of a chance to showcase that.

I honestly see no point in playing Izzy at 3rd and I believe the longer it occurs, whatever small value he had will whither away. Of course, is anyone really expecting much for Izzy after Colletti's previous trades?

I'm not.

2006-07-05 17:44:52
34.   confucius
This whole bean ball thing is not going to be so cute if one of the Dodgers goes on the DL. If I were pitching for the I would not feel so great about hitting an opposing hitter when you have the fragile bodies of Garciaparra and Drew batting third and fourth. Those two could break there arms playing slap jack.
2006-07-05 17:45:26
35.   LAT
28. Agreed. I'm just saying its not fair to judge Ned's overall performance without acknowledging the good moves he has made. We can all agree Baez makes no sense. But only Ned had the foresight to see Sele and he should get credit for that too. So with the season half over, on overall basis, has he improved this team? Would you hire Ned again? I wouldn't.
2006-07-05 17:47:57
36.   JoeyP
27. You make some good points and I think alot of the commenters here brought them up in the off-season too. Ned rearranged the furniture in a Dodger house that had, and still has foundational problems.
2006-07-05 17:50:09
37.   LAT
BTW Jon, a pretty good post on short notice from a guy who is "fatigued" after a suspect Sunday brunch.
2006-07-05 17:50:58
38.   Humma Kavula
There has been another steal of home!

Carl Crawford, come on down.

2006-07-05 17:55:16
39.   Brian Y
Jon has been mentioned along with DodgerThoughts in the latest column in Inside the Dodgers.
2006-07-05 17:55:28
40.   LAT
Joey, now that you say it I remember you using the "rearranged the furniture" metaphor during the off season. I though it was right on target then and it still is today. Although he seems to have hawked the Tiffany Lamp and the Jackson recliner ( for too little.
2006-07-05 17:56:01
41.   ToyCannon
You can't use Tuscon as an example because Quentin gets hit more then anyone in the minors. It is how he keeps his OBP so high. It will be curious if this trend continues in the Majors.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but Hanrahan won yesterday for Vegas and while he didn't pitch well he did hit a home run and now has an 1800 OPS in AAA. Course it is only 5 at bats but he better print his stat page ASAP:)

The Loney power surge is still coming on strong and his OPS is up to 982 only 18 points below the magic 1000. Getting hard to ignore the incredible numbers he's putting up in Vegas this year. He has also made 10 errors which seems like an awful lot for a gold glove caliber 1st baseman. So even though we have brought up Martin, Ethier, Kemp, and Billingsly I think we still have plenty of ammunition in Loney, LaRoche, Aybar, and JtD who is about to go on a 2nd half tear at just the right moment so he can increase his trade value because he's gonna be dealt. As we start July, D Young is hitting 279/339/474, I'm expecting by the end of July he will have around 300/350/505 line as he does his normal July smashing.

2006-07-05 17:57:13
42.   MartinBillingsley31
I can totally see an izturis for a veteran reliever trade.
Not that i want izturis traded for a veteran reliever.
But looking at our lack of good pitching and looking at the fact ned made a trade for a starting pitcher, i'm thinking a veteran reliever is coming for izturis.
2006-07-05 17:58:58
43.   Humma Kavula
39 I think that's a nice post that Josh has over there, the other side of the coin.
2006-07-05 18:00:13
44.   Bluebleeder87

Navarro's D falls asleep, I kind of can't see your point.

2006-07-05 18:03:54
45.   trainwreck
I am glad to hear that Dioner and his family escaped harm, I wish him success with the Devil Rays.

I hope all these Soriano rumors I am hearing are baseless, especially since Ned already said he wants pitching.

For USC fans out there, 2007 # 1 basketball recruit OJ Mayo, the most hyped prospect since Lebron looks to have commited to USC.

2006-07-05 18:04:07
46.   Bluebleeder87

I think your not including passed balls.

2006-07-05 18:04:53
47.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
But sometimes reputations can be made on a few given plays. Navarro's WP's against earlier in the year, kinda remind me of last year's series against the Cards when Choi played 1st. He then gets a reputation that he cant play defense.

My impression is that scouts have been down on Navarro's defense for a while. And is catcher ERA really worth much of anything as a stat?

I also wasn't just talking about the running game, but the whole issue of blocking the plate well, keeping passed balls down, etc.


2006-07-05 18:06:44
48.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Its the question of his arm strength coming back from his surgery, and whether he can make the throw from deep in the hole at SS.

Well, shouldn't 3B be one place where Izzy can show that, aside from SS?

I think teams will understand why we aren't displacing a 13 million dollar shortstop for Izzy. But if the concern is about arm strength and recovery from Tommy John, throws from 3B should suffice to show his elbow's healed. I don't think anyone really questions Izturis' range--the issue is his arm.


2006-07-05 18:11:35
49.   Bluebleeder87

I've seen his throws for a couple of days now & let me tell you HE'S HEALED PERIOD

2006-07-05 18:13:49
50.   Uncle Miltie
12- swap Martin and Izzy and you have arguably the best lineup of the year. Grits is so close to putting out a great lineup. All we need to do is trade Izzy for John Patterson and call up Aybar (bat him leadoff).

Aybar 3B
Martin C
Nomar 1B
Drew RF
Kent 2B
3.5 LF
Kemp CF
Fookie SS

nate- who/what did you get for Lofton and Baez? A honey baked ham would be an outstanding return.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-05 18:14:14
51.   Bluebleeder87

espcially a throw I saw in the late innings yesterday (I was sold)

2006-07-05 18:14:36
52.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 48

But I think other orgs will want to see more of that. TJ's a big deal, especially with his arthritic condition, and if I was another GM, I wouldn't want to make a move on a week's worth of throws from 3B. There were lots of media reports of how Jobe didn't think Izzy should play SS anymore. That has to weigh a lot on any GM's mind. And Izzy's bat is really worthless at any position other than SS. There it's adequate, at 2B I think its below-average, and it's unacceptable at 3B.


2006-07-05 18:15:43
53.   MartinBillingsley31
*Aybar 3B
Martin C
Nomar 1B
Drew RF
Kent 2B
3.5 LF
Kemp CF
Fookie SS*

That's the lineup i've been wanting.

2006-07-05 18:15:51
54.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 50

I read somewhere that Ned has actually considered batting Martin either 1 or 2. Hopefully he'll pull the trigger soon on that idea, maybe if Izzy continues to struggle overall with the bat.


2006-07-05 18:16:10
55.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 54

Shoot, meant to say Little when I wrote Ned.


2006-07-05 18:18:19
56.   MartinBillingsley31
What's with the 3.5 = ethier?
2006-07-05 18:20:47
57.   ninjavshippo

why the heck would the nats trade patterson for izturis, when they already have royce clayton (another light hitting, +def SS)? zimmerman is fairly entrenched @ 3B. i don't understand that working w/out one of our prospects.

2006-07-05 18:22:30
58.   confucius
50 I like that lineup too. Although, I wish Drew was not in the cleanup spot. I think Grady only does this to right-left-right with Nomar, Drew and Kent but it really bothers me because Kent has hit so well with RISP and Drew not so well, in the past. Plus JD has never had a 100 RBI season. (Although, I do not know where he hit in the order before ATL so that may have something to do with it.
2006-07-05 18:23:08
59.   Bluebleeder87

I mean no disrespect to Jobe but didn't he say Pedro wouldn't last as a ML pitcher?

2006-07-05 18:25:19
60.   Bluebleeder87

of course Pedro is a different type of human than most of us (genious pitcher)

2006-07-05 18:26:21
61.   confucius
[57} Maybe Patterson will turn his back on Robinson next time he is removed from a game and will get him for free!
2006-07-05 18:26:54
62.   ToyCannon
Can't agree, the understimation of the value of the Nomar signing amazes me given what he has meant to this team. That one signing far exceeds any damage Ned has done to the team with his other deals. I don't have time to debate the issue but the all-star break will be a good time to look at all of Ned's deals and see what the net sum is, and I'm certain the ledger will be in his favor. Nomar is having an historic season for a Los Angeles Dodger 1st baseman. The "great" Garvey never posted an OPS higher then 852. Karros and his 1999 season or Eddie Murray and his 1990 season are probably the best seasons ever by a LA 1st baseman and Nomar is better then either at this point.
2006-07-05 18:27:52
63.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 59

In trades, it doesn't really matter if Jobe's actually right or not--it's just that the info's out there, and other GMs need to take it into account.

And really, I think Jobe's right to worry about an arthritic condition being paired with Izzy's TJ. That's not something I heard of before. And TJ for position players should always raise an eyebrow, I think.

But that's just conjecture on my part.


2006-07-05 18:27:58
64.   Uncle Miltie
57- they also get Guzman. We've talked about this trade for almost a year. With Bowden at the helm, anything is possible.

Drew is a proven .400 OBP guy. The ideal spot for Drew in the lineup is 2nd. Our lineup doesn't have enough depth where we can afford to put him there.

2006-07-05 18:28:58
65.   Bob Timmermann
Looks like the Dodgers will need to win to keep the first place tie in place. Khalil Greene hit a 3-run homer off of Tom Gordon in the 8th to put the Padres ahead 6-3.
2006-07-05 18:30:45
66.   Uncle Miltie
Carl Crawford is a monster. Today he is 2-3 with 3 steals and 2 RBI. He's hitting .325 and his OPS is around .900. How is this guy not an all star?
2006-07-05 18:32:26
67.   ToyCannon
The more Izzy plays the less his trade value becomes. Think of what the Twins got for Castro and other then some age in Izzy's favor that is about what his value is around the league.

I love lineups where a rookie gets the top spot because he impressed everyone in his 1st 100 ab's of the year while ignoring his last 100 at bats but a proven top of the order hitter like Furcal gets bumped to the bottom because he's started out slow even with solid history as a lead off hitter compiled over years of at bats. Furcal will be a huge catalyst to this team in the 2nd half and it will be done from the top of the lineup.

2006-07-05 18:32:42
68.   MartinBillingsley31

martin c
drew rf
nomar 1b
kent 2b
kemp cf
ethier lf
laroche 3b
furcal ss

2006-07-05 18:32:45
69.   Bluebleeder87

I agree with point WWSH, but I'm not sold on it.

2006-07-05 18:35:04
70.   Bluebleeder87
Lucille II, will play & bat 7th today, should we be concerned?
2006-07-05 18:35:07
71.   trainwreck
One of those steals was a straight steal of home.
2006-07-05 18:35:10
72.   natepurcell
nate- who/what did you get for Lofton and Baez? A honey baked ham would be an outstanding return

I honestly think I made out pretty well. I basically pulled out the "Baez is a type A free agent at the end of the year" card and got a pretty good deal.

Im going to type up little summary of the trade in a second. I just got home from tennis. I'm going to shower because it was 200 degrees outside.

2006-07-05 18:40:55
73.   dsfan


It appeared Aybar was cratering when the Dodgers sent him down. The quality of his ABs for the better part of two weeks was terrible. At Vegas, he's gone 6-for-40 (2 HRs) since going down -- .150 batting average, .244 OBP. Defensively, he was a borderline liability at the time of his demotion. Willy's got some work to do, no question.

2006-07-05 18:41:28
74.   ninjavshippo

and it still doesn't make sense. guzman is barely OPSing .800, and izturis' offense is almost nil. the nats NEED offense in a major way and this trade does not give them that in exchange for a career 4-ERA pitcher. patterson wouldn't be an enormous steal, but i think this trade still overvalues guzman. i realize we have a number of minor-league enthusiasts here (i've sort of been converted into on since lurking here), but prospects are just that. prospects. their value resides in the unknown future, but unless you're a team like the marlins, you're not going to give up a proven major leaguer for nothing. you've got to give something to get something.

it's possible to pick bowden's pocket, but i wouldn't count on it.

2006-07-05 18:43:39
75.   D4P
it's possible to pick bowden's pocket, but i wouldn't count on it.

Especially if it's Ned's sticky fingers we have to rely on...

2006-07-05 18:43:54
76.   ninjavshippo

it was not my intention to make it sound like the marlins got nothing out of their trades. they've obviously got plenty of nice young players out of their trades. i just meant to say they're more willing to mortgage the "now" for the future.

2006-07-05 18:49:17
77.   Steve
LAT makes for an interesting argument, at least. Myself, I just voted for Nomar ten times in the All Star elimination round.
2006-07-05 18:50:53
78.   D4P
Myself, I just voted for Nomar ten times in the All Star elimination round

You sentimental fool...

2006-07-05 18:53:43
79.   bobbygrich
A couple of things, Boston may become a player in the Weaverstakes, Jason Johnson went 4 innings again, giving up 5 runs, that means in 2 games, 8 IP, 10 runs.

I was surprised to see Peavy in the game in the 8th inning, after throwing 108 pitches in 7 IP, he batted for himself in the top of 8th(which was a good thing in the 5th, he hit a 2 run HR) then proceeded to let the first 2 men get on, then was taken out, 2 runs scored to tie the game and then the Padres won it in the ninth, where Greene did his one positive offensive strength, occasionally hit for power, did just that.

2006-07-05 18:55:15
80.   Bluebleeder87

I voted for him 100 times about a month ago (he deserves it BOTTOM LINE)

2006-07-05 18:57:15
81.   thinkingblue
Guzman: 9/42/.345/.456

Remind me why he is a top prospect?

2006-07-05 18:58:56
82.   Steve

I remember back in the days when Ron Perranoski was the Dodgers' so-called "closer." Manager Walter Alston would bring him in in the seventh inning. Now the closer pitches one inning. Terrible.

Indeed. Now please tell Plaschke.

2006-07-05 19:00:39
83.   Bluebleeder87
alot of people are underplaying the very very iteresting point that there might be a brawl/batter talking smak today, why is that?
2006-07-05 19:00:42
84.   CanuckDodger
Scott Elbert has been promoted to Jacksonville. I know Logan White watched him pitch on Monday in Vero Beach, so perhaps he played a role in the decision to bump Elbert up a level. I have read that Elbert's fastball was sitting at 93-95 MPH on Monday.
2006-07-05 19:01:41
85.   Bluebleeder87

I might be wrong.

2006-07-05 19:04:10
86.   trainwreck
Great news. Not only is Elbert pitching very well, but hopefully it means Logan White will do whatever he can to make sure Ned does not trade him.
2006-07-05 19:05:49
87.   ToyCannon
Because at the age of 20 he clobbered AA pitching and was a SS. He hasn't progressed since then but neither has he cratered like many believe. His 1st several years he also struggled and then made a quantum leap forward. He may make another leap forward after several years of struggle or he just may never translate his light tower power into usefullness. He does worry me but he'd still be a top 3 prospect on many teams lists. He was born on my birthday and he's got a great nickname and I sponser his baseball cube site so he MUST become a star, it has already been written.
2006-07-05 19:07:26
88.   natepurcell
okay, summary of the dodgers astros trade.

why i did it: My strategy at this deadline wasnt to sell off everything or to sell everything and competit now. like the previous gms before me, I am trying to walk that line of ocmpeting now and in the future. This particular trade is not going to help this team now but I have other trades in the works that will help this team now. This trade was basically to get get some return for players who most likely, will not be with the dodgers beyond this year. Okay so the trade was:

Danys Baez and Kenny Lofton to the Astros for 3 AA pitchers, RH SP Matt Albers. RH SP Juan Gutierrez and RH RL Paul Estrada.

Matt Albers 6'0 205lb AGE 23 RHP

Stats this year:
1.92ERA 98.1IP 80H 3hr 37bb 79k

scouting report: Astros #12 prospect coming into the season according to BA, certainly to move up by years end. Hard thrower, fastball 93-94 and touches 97, potential plus curveball and plus slider, average change up. Before this year, scouts question his dedication because he hardly prepared for his starts. It seems though he has gotten his act together and he has pitched extremely well this year. Could become a possible #2, I liked him enough to be the centerpiece to this deal.

Juan Gutierrez 6'3 200lb AGE 22 RHP

stats this year:
3.51era 89.2IP 88H 10hr 32bb 95k

scouting report: Astros #8 prospect coming into the season and certainly will move up by seasons end. like albers, he is a hard thrower, 90-96 mph fb with a big breaking 78mph curveball. he flashes a plus change up at times but will need to be more consistent when he tries to change speeds. His pretty emotional on the mound but i like that fire in a player. He is just another power arm i like and he just adds to our depth.

Paul Estrada 6'2 215lbs AGE 23 RHP

stats this year:

3.55era 58.1IP 43H 9hr 19bb 96K(!!!)

scouting report: Rated as the astros 24th best prospect coming into the season by BA, this kid is an absolute K machine. So much so that I think he is a real huge sleeper to be an elite late inning reliever. I mean just look at his krate, over 14 per 9!! and k:bb ratio of over 5!! Unbelievable K numbers. The only thing is that he has allowed a crapload of homeruns, I really don't know what to make of that but i do know i cant pass up on a kid with that much strikeout potential. BA says he has two pitches that can grade out as a 70 on the grading scale, a fb that gets up to 95mph and a knee buckling curve.

So I look at the trade as estrada for lofton and the starting pitchers for Baez. I think I made out pretty well here. A lot of potential in these arms but still some warts on them. But hey, its hard to get the perfect pitching prospect for lofton and baez.

2006-07-05 19:10:16
89.   Uncle Miltie
84- Elbert is one of my favorite prospects. I've heard that some scouts envision him as closer in the future. I'd hate to see him move to bullpen, unless it's absolutely necessary. I think he can be a very good starting pitcher.
2006-07-05 19:11:16
90.   bobbygrich
87 I was going to say the same thing however I beileve had he been a corner outfielder, he would not have been as highly touted. But for the two years prior to this one, his ISO has been over .220 and last winter, he led the Domincan League with 31 RBI (Youngest player ever to do that).

He is definitely one guy who a full year in AAA will help but he, along with LaRoche and Kemp (and possibly Loney if his doubles become HRs) are the Dodgers main hitting for power prospects.

2006-07-05 19:12:26
91.   ToyCannon
Jim Callis thinks he's moved into the top echelon of pitching prospects according to a chat the other day. Talking top ten with all the pitching promotions that have gone on this year.
2006-07-05 19:18:39
92.   MartinBillingsley31
With the emergence of kemp and ethier in the outfield, and with laroche our future 3b, and with nomar or loney handling 1b, i'd like to see the dodgers convert guzman and aybar into 2b and ss and be patient with them considering we have furcal untill 2009 and kent untill 2008 or if the option is picked up untill 2009.

If we re-sign nomar, a package of loney and hu (both future gold glovers) would be attractive to other GM's it seems to me, and starting pitching would be what to target with the lack of starting pitching prospects in the near future.

2006-07-05 19:19:01
93.   Bluebleeder87
Furcal making his precess known (pop up)
2006-07-05 19:19:02
94.   LAT
Someone in my house dislikes Baez more than I do. Daughter just plopped down on the coutch (chip off the old block) to watch the game only to learn Green isn't playing becasue Baez nailed him in the hip yesterday.
2006-07-05 19:19:31
95.   Uncle Miltie
88- good trade to get anything for those two. I haven't heard of those guys. At their ages, I hope that they are in AA.

The BJ trade is looking better every day. Look at Penny's new beard!

2006-07-05 19:19:41
96.   JoeyP
According the Cardinals broadcast, they just traded for Jeff Weaver.

I'm beginning to question whether Walt Jocketty is still the Cardinals GM.

2006-07-05 19:20:12
97.   LAT
Izturis had an accident.
2006-07-05 19:20:20
98.   natepurcell

all 3 are in AA, I thought I wrote that, maybe i didn't. oops.

2006-07-05 19:22:17
99.   natepurcell
What did the cards give up for weaver?
2006-07-05 19:23:37
100.   ToyCannon
After watching Suppan, Mulder, and Marquis, Weaver will look like spun gold for the Card's. He'll quickly become their 3rd best pitcher which isn't saying alot but I also think he'd have become our 3rd best pitcher which also isn't saying alot.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-05 19:24:52
101.   trainwreck
Nice job Nate! John Sickels is a big fan of Albers, calls him a big sleeper. He has so much potential because he has 4 quality major league pitches.
2006-07-05 19:25:32
102.   LAT
100. That's alot of isn't saying alot. :-)
2006-07-05 19:26:57
103.   JoeyP
Terry Evans...

Weaver wont be the Cardinals 3rd best pitcher. Mulder, Reyes, Carpenter are all better than he is. He'll join the scrap heap of Marquis/Suppan/Weaver.

Plus, the ballpark Weaver will be pitching in isnt gonna help him. Of course, Jocketty once signed Tomko, so this isnt out of the ordinary.

I'm just surprised the Cardinals made Wainright a middle reliever. He was one of the Atlanta's top pitching prospects, and should still be starting.

2006-07-05 19:28:15
104.   natepurcell

Mulder has been terrible this year.

2006-07-05 19:28:29
105.   Uncle Miltie
98- just looked back at your post and you did. I was kind of skimming through it.
96- my guess is Adam Wainwright
2006-07-05 19:29:32
106.   JoeyP
100. Weaver was horrible for the Angels. He wasnt very good last season for the Dodgers.
Why would going into the NL make him automatically a better pitcher? Sure its an easier league, but Weaver was putting up Jose Lima-esque Royals numbers for the Angels.

The Mets tried Lima this year and it didnt work. I dont think Weaver will fare much better.

2006-07-05 19:30:43
107.   Uncle Miltie
103- are you kidding me? We could have topped that junky offer. Xavier Paul would have gotten it done easily.
2006-07-05 19:30:54
108.   Gen3Blue
Mornin--just woke up from an E. coast nap to catch the game. Although I don't know any of these pitchers this damn trade sounds to good to be true. To the future D's staff.
Penny looks good- just got a double play!
2006-07-05 19:30:58
109.   JoeyP
104. Mulder is a better pitcher than Weaver. Mulder at least has an injury excuse for his struggling the last month.

Jeff Weaver is like Jose Lima.

Mulder was actually good at one time.

2006-07-05 19:31:43
110.   Bluebleeder87
con somebody recomend Gagne the book by Docter John E. Sarno the mind body prescription by Dr. Sarno.
2006-07-05 19:31:46
111.   natepurcell

Mulder was a better pitcher then Weaver. Now they are basically the same.

2006-07-05 19:32:12
112.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets are trying Jose Lima again!
2006-07-05 19:33:00
113.   JoeyP
107. There's no way I'd want Jeff Weaver back, even if he costs nothing. The guy is a bad bad bad starting pitcher.
2006-07-05 19:33:09
114.   LAT
106. The Mets tried Lima this year and it didnt work.

Those who forget the past are condemed to repeat it. . .

2006-07-05 19:35:15
115.   Steve
I would have taken Weaver with the Angels paying his freight and no stupid trade with Tampa Bay in the works. Now, it would be pointless.
2006-07-05 19:35:27
116.   JoeyP
THe guy gave up 18hrs in 88ip for the Angels. He's done.
2006-07-05 19:37:23
117.   Uncle Miltie
I think we should change Either's nicknumber to 3.14. Then we can call him Pi for short.
2006-07-05 19:37:28
118.   natepurcell
Mulders given up 18hrs in 88.2IP and he is the same age as weaver basically (maybe a 1 yr younger). Is he done too?
2006-07-05 19:38:01
119.   Uncle Miltie
2006-07-05 19:38:39
120.   the OZ
Trading for Weaver isn't prima facie stupidity. At least five teams will have some interest in him. If he were to go to waivers, the Cards wouldn't be guaranteed to get him if a lesser team, according to 2005 W-L record, put in a claim. If he did end up going to waivers, they'd have to bid for his services against the other clubs by either offering a multi-year deal of outbidding others in a presumably 5-player auction game. None of these options are as attractive as being sure of getting the player for some replacement-level-type players, which is what I'm assuming they gave up.

Wanting Jeff Weaver may be inherently stupid, but in this case the decision to make a trade was defensible.

2006-07-05 19:38:45
121.   Gen3Blue
Kent still hurt?
2006-07-05 19:39:13
122.   Greg Brock
2006-07-05 19:39:18
123.   natepurcell
2006-07-05 19:39:28
124.   Uncle Miltie
Everybody wants a piece of the Pi!
2006-07-05 19:39:29
125.   Bluebleeder87
2006-07-05 19:39:34
126.   Marty
3.5! (my new favorite nickname)
2006-07-05 19:39:46
127.   Gen3Blue
Ethiers got no power. He's a 3.5
2006-07-05 19:41:09
128.   Steve
Oh Canada. We stand on guard for Ethier
2006-07-05 19:41:16
129.   natepurcell
wow, kemp missed a fastball.
2006-07-05 19:41:23
130.   Gen3Blue
Vargas-still my favorite cartoonist.
2006-07-05 19:41:43
131.   JoeyP
118. No, because Mulder gave up 10HRs in his last 5 starts (which is probably when he started to get hurt).

The guy was a decent pitcher through the latter part of may. His ERA was 3.74 after 67IP. Plus historically he's been alot better than Weaver.

Jeff Weaver was pretty bad the entire year.

2006-07-05 19:42:00
132.   the OZ
117 in the Futurama universe, all the Mets have fractional numbers because all the whole numbers had been retired.

When my sports-illiterate roommate overheard Vin describing the back injury Gagne suffered at home today, he was quick to blame Gagne's wife for the injury. Funny, coming from a guy that knows nothing about any sport in the history of the universe.

2006-07-05 19:43:16
133.   trainwreck
Wow, Ned can say he fleeced Billy Beane.
2006-07-05 19:43:27
134.   bobbygrich
88 Nate:
Some questions:
Did it worry you that Albers K rate went down, while his walk rate stayed about the same? Also this is his first option year.

My only concern with Gutierrez is that he is already in his second option year with the Astros (they added him in 11/2004) and he is just completing his first year in AA.

Estrada is someone who they will probably have to protect this year but I agree he adds some depth.

I still think folks hear undervalue Baez but I can understand to try and recoup the deal that brought him here. Peace out.

2006-07-05 19:44:36
135.   natepurcell

so you're picking and choosing sample sizes now? Just because Mulder was an Oakland A, doesn't make him better that much better then Jeff Weaver now. They are basically the same. At least Weaver still strikes people out. Mulder is Odalis Perez.

2006-07-05 19:44:59
136.   bobbygrich
Of course I meant "folks here"
2006-07-05 19:45:16
137.   natepurcell
I can't believe I'm defending Jeff Weaver. I'm going to stop now. No more Jeff Weaver talk please, it brings out the worse in everyone.
2006-07-05 19:47:48
138.   natepurcell

like i said, these pitchers do have some warts on them but they seem to be cheap, and hopefully effective power arms that could possibly help the big league club in a year or two. So basically, no more paying the tomko's of the world to be our back of the rotation starter when we can use the guys down on the farm.

2006-07-05 19:48:00
139.   Daniel Zappala
This is late, but I just barely got time to catch up. I have a very simple method for buying cars: (1) Go to Honda web site and decide what I want, (2) Email local dealers for a quote, (3) Pick the best price and buy it. No lemons, high satisfaction.

The only thing that may change this is if I decide I should choose a hybrid, and then I'd have to do some research.

2006-07-05 19:48:25
140.   LAT
132. I missed it. What happened to Gagne?
2006-07-05 19:48:33
141.   Marty
LaRussa: Are you on my team?
Weaver: I am today!
2006-07-05 19:48:39
142.   Uncle Miltie
131- and Weaver had a 3.7 ERA in his last 8 starts not including his last start with the Angels. I'm not going to look it up, but that's what I remember reading in the LA Times.
2006-07-05 19:49:11
143.   Gen3Blue
I know--Oh ye of little faith--applies to me, but seeing this Vargas, if we don't get rid of him, we are done.
2006-07-05 19:50:14
144.   MartinBillingsley31

Anytime you can trade mediocre veterans like baez and lofton for pitching prospects its a win win.
I'm on board with that trade.

2006-07-05 19:50:34
145.   Bob Timmermann
In honor of tonight's starting pitcher for Arizona, which movie does this line come from?

That wasn't no miss, Vargas. That was just to turn you 'round, so I don't have to shoot you in the back. Unless you'd rather run for it.

2006-07-05 19:52:10
146.   JoeyP
135.I'm not picking sample sizes.

Its a fact. Mulder pitched well up until a certain point (this year). He then took a nose dive, and subsequently has wound up on the DL. Is it really that far fetched to maybe give the guy some leeway and suggest he might actually be hurt, given his career averages and age? To ignore his entire career, doesnt seem very smart. Even if you just want to look back to last year, Mulder was better than Weaver. Mulder had a good year last year.

Mulder has outperformed Weaver at every juncture of his career.

Its sad you continue to make petty comments about Mulder being a former Athletic, that doesnt mean anything. I dont think Ethier is anything special yet, and he's a former Athletic.

2006-07-05 19:52:13
147.   Marty
I sort of honored Vargas with my movie reference.
2006-07-05 19:52:23
148.   bobbygrich
138 Don't disagree with the concept, just concerned about managing the overall roster and 25 man roster, I am still waiting to see who goes off the 40 man roster when Ledee and Repko come off the 60 day DL.

Just wanted to let you know too that you have someone around who loves looking up the minute details of potential players.

Any comments on the Elbert promotion, he's on a slightly slower Chad path but his ETA could be in 2007.

2006-07-05 19:52:47
149.   Bluebleeder87

But he was good in Dodger blue... :o)

2006-07-05 19:53:15
150.   Gen3Blue
Someone recently commented that defensive stats were still a work in progress, and none was better than good old observation.
I find this true, and Isturiz an example.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-05 19:53:40
151.   Greg Brock
145 Greatest opening scene ever.
2006-07-05 19:53:52
152.   Uncle Miltie
145- Touch of Evil

I cheated :)

2006-07-05 19:54:52
153.   LAT
Daughter actually giggled when Vin said Green was hitting .450 over the last eight games.

I guess its better than her liking Nick Lashea

2006-07-05 19:55:09
154.   Marty
Penny is trying to get on Nate's good side with the beard so he doesn't trade him.
2006-07-05 19:55:22
155.   Bob Timmermann
No one can play a Mexican better than Charlton Heston!
2006-07-05 19:57:15
156.   Marty
That's how good that movie is, you don't mindf that Heston is playing a Mexican.

A lot of that movie was shot in downtown Venice.

2006-07-05 19:58:24
157.   Greg Brock
Furcal might be the dumbest baseball player this side of Roger Cedeno.
2006-07-05 19:58:34
158.   Marty
Furry. Nice.
2006-07-05 19:59:07
159.   natepurcell
hahahahha Brynesie!
2006-07-05 19:59:11
160.   trainwreck
Great to see Byrnes do that stuff when hes not on a team you root for.
2006-07-05 19:59:14
161.   Uncle Miltie
I love Eric Byrnes
2006-07-05 19:59:37
162.   JoeyP
2006-07-05 20:00:13
163.   natepurcell

I probably wouldn't trade Penny anyways. Ive had some teams ask about him but I guess I was asking for too much.

2006-07-05 20:00:26
164.   Uncle Miltie
157- Roger Cedeno's brain + Jose Offerman's defense = Fookie
2006-07-05 20:00:35
165.   Bob Timmermann
Akim Tamiroff, who was Russian, also plays a Mexican in "Touch of Evil."
2006-07-05 20:01:28
166.   bobbygrich
As if you didn't know:

Per AP - The Los Angeles Angels traded disappointing right-hander Jeff Weaver to the St. Louis Cardinals on Wednesday night for minor-league outfielder Terry Evans. Evans hit 22 HRs and stole 26 out of 28 bases in A/AA ball. Not in BA's top ten nor in Sickels top 20. His numbers look really good but I wonder why he is really under the radar.

2006-07-05 20:01:30
167.   lakerican
If anyone cares, Jeff Weaver is a Card...
2006-07-05 20:01:32
168.   Vishal
hey nate, what is this fantasy world in which you are the dodgers GM? i must have missed it when you first explained.
2006-07-05 20:02:07
169.   natepurcell
For those not watching, it was a clean hit. Line drive into the gap, byrnes is just an idiot for diving.
2006-07-05 20:02:46
170.   Steve
Not to get all Charlton Heston here, but Arizona is mucho incompetent.
2006-07-05 20:02:51
171.   Bluebleeder87
this game is becoming comical/hard to watch if your a D-BACK fan. (I love it)
2006-07-05 20:02:53
172.   trainwreck
So how long before a Dodger is plunked?
2006-07-05 20:03:04
173.   natepurcell

over at Sickels they are having a GM tradedeadline Simulation. There is a GM for each major league team and the goal is to make your team better.

2006-07-05 20:03:26
174.   Uncle Miltie
Honestly, that's a base hit if Hudson isn't playing 2B. That's a Bossman Junior error. A case where having great range can hurt you.
2006-07-05 20:03:26
175.   Bluebleeder87

he loves doing that dough

2006-07-05 20:03:42
176.   Greg Brock
They're not booing...They're saying Boooyrnes.

Every error is made better when they play the Benny Hill music.

2006-07-05 20:03:53
177.   lakerican
The thing that bothers me is that it should be no outs...
2006-07-05 20:04:18
178.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I loved the pained look on Melvin's face after that error.


2006-07-05 20:04:45
179.   StolenMonkey86
We have extra base hits from the following

Brad Penny

How bad are the Diamondbacks?

2006-07-05 20:04:57
180.   Bluebleeder87

I wanted to do an over under at 5innings what do you think?

2006-07-05 20:05:11
181.   JoeyP
Well, now the Dbax are showing how exactly they could lose 18 of 20 games.
2006-07-05 20:06:19
182.   Greg Brock
The probability of a beanball increases exponentially with each run.
2006-07-05 20:06:44
183.   bobbygrich
And who do we play 7 out of the first 11 games after the All Star break. Welcome back Mr. Weaver. Sure to face him once in St. Louis.
2006-07-05 20:07:09
184.   Bob Timmermann
I'm enjoying this because of last year, when the DBacks seemingly would win every game against the Dodgers. Usually in an annoying fashion with somebody waving helplessly at a Jose Valverde pitch in the 9th.

The Dodgers went 5-13 against AZ last year.

2006-07-05 20:07:18
185.   StolenMonkey86
Izturis needs a homer and a double.
2006-07-05 20:07:29
186.   Gen3Blue
Jeez,our speedsters Furc and Iz can't steal a soda from a convenience store. I still like them both.
2006-07-05 20:08:05
187.   Steve
I mean, these guys are like "Blonde on the Match Game" incompetent.
2006-07-05 20:08:33
188.   Marty
Let the head hunting begin.
2006-07-05 20:09:03
189.   LAT
Between Furcal getting cought stealing and trying to shove a water bottle through the ear hole of his batting helmet he is confirming he really is Ed Norton.
2006-07-05 20:09:21
190.   bobbygrich
Like Psycho said last night, the Dodgers can hit mediocre pitching and luckily for them, most of NL starters are mediocre.
2006-07-05 20:10:48
191.   trainwreck
Ramon you idiot!
2006-07-05 20:11:01
192.   Greg Brock
Of course he's out. He turned toward second. But the run scores
2006-07-05 20:11:16
193.   Marty
Martinez can't round the bag and expect to just walk back to first.
2006-07-05 20:11:40
194.   Bluebleeder87
Mersy call?
2006-07-05 20:11:42
195.   trainwreck
Why did he take so long to get back to the base? I knew they were going to tag him.
2006-07-05 20:12:15
196.   Bluebleeder87
the 1st baseman was on the way!!?
2006-07-05 20:12:33
197.   Marty
So that has to still be a throwing error since the run scored.
2006-07-05 20:12:53
198.   natepurcell
well, we can call Ethier a prospect anymore, he has crossed the 150AB threshold.
2006-07-05 20:12:56
199.   mountainmover
I will take my trash out to the curb tomorrow. When I come home a new BMW will be sitting where I placed the garbage cans.

Ned Coletti sat his trash (Bradley and Perez) out at the curb and Billy Beane gave him a new BMW (Ethier)!

How does it feel to be fleeced by Ned the Moron, Mr. Moneyball?

2006-07-05 20:13:09
200.   Bluebleeder87
to me it seemed like Jackson was on Lucille's way.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-05 20:13:15
201.   natepurcell
2006-07-05 20:13:15
202.   Steve
I thought the Rockies were the National League West team into Christian charity.
2006-07-05 20:13:44
203.   Marty
How on earth can they take the run away?!?
2006-07-05 20:14:58
204.   Bob Timmermann
Umm, that call is wrong. The run should count. Martinez reached first safely and then was out for overrunning the base.

I must investigate further.

2006-07-05 20:15:03
205.   trainwreck
Brynes immediately breaking his bat that was hilarious. The defense... not so much.
2006-07-05 20:15:26
206.   natepurcell
Oops for the outfielders.
2006-07-05 20:15:51
207.   Greg Brock
Wait a cotton pickin' minute. The play is no longer a force, and the runner crosses before the runner is tagged out. How does that run not count? That can't be right. The force is over once he touches the bag.
2006-07-05 20:15:56
208.   Steve
Why aren't we playing under protest? Isn't that a protestable call?
2006-07-05 20:16:03
209.   Gen3Blue
I was beginning to believe our luck was invariably turning, but I'm beginning to wonder if the Pirates and the D-backsare really major league teams.
Uh-Oh, the umpires are rallying to the cause to make MLB look good. Forget what I said.
2006-07-05 20:16:15
210.   StolenMonkey86
199 - LOL!
2006-07-05 20:16:47
211.   Marty
Did they rule he didn't touch first?
2006-07-05 20:16:54
212.   Bluebleeder87

the run scored before the...

2006-07-05 20:17:56
213.   LAT
Gotta love the way Eric Byrnes stood at the plate slammed him bat down and then ran to first. He got to second anyway but what a knucklhead.
2006-07-05 20:18:13
214.   Steve
Interference on Martinez?
2006-07-05 20:18:16
215.   StolenMonkey86
Ethier, the BMW 3.5
2006-07-05 20:19:06
216.   bobbygrich
Nate, another rookie league pitcher you may have picked up on, Jesus Castillo, after tonite, 14 IP, 11 hits, 1 ER, 3 BB, 15 K. With Johnson, Morris and Castillo, three young arms, though Johnson might be the most advanced, he is already pitching twice as many innings per game than the others.
2006-07-05 20:19:32
217.   natepurcell
Seriously, if we lose this game because the umps took that run away and Kemp and Drew can't catch flyballs, then ughhhh.
2006-07-05 20:20:07
218.   Bluebleeder87
I love Kemp but he needs to work on his D (I've seen a couple of plays that were less then impressive) He's young so no worries.
2006-07-05 20:20:30
219.   Marty
Well, Furry took a run away too.
2006-07-05 20:21:06
220.   LAT
The real problem with having to give the run back is the diffence between 5 runs and 6 i.e., being Danys-Proof.
2006-07-05 20:21:06
221.   Bob Timmermann
I think this rule may be what the umpires were thinking about:

Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner's failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score. If such third out is the result of a force play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score.

2006-07-05 20:21:41
222.   overkill94
Bob, any clarity concerning the phantom run?

It seems absurd to take the run away since Martinez crossed first base, negating any rules regarding force plays.

Martinez shouldn't have been out in the first place, he was simply going where his momentum took him. You have to make an actual attempt to be called out on that.

2006-07-05 20:22:09
223.   natepurcell

Yea, I've been keeping my eye on Castillo. I think he is a TJ rebounder, I'm not sure though. I know one of the Castillos in our system is coming back from TJ, can't remember which one exactly. the thing is though, Jesus is 22 yrs old, so that is a bit old considering he is only in rookie ball.

and Penny just threw the first change up/split finger ive seen from him in like 2 months.

2006-07-05 20:22:32
224.   Marty
But they count that as a following runner, even though he was back on the bench by then?
2006-07-05 20:23:24
225.   Bluebleeder87

so if Lucille II stays behind the lines what happens then? the inning isn't over?

2006-07-05 20:23:24
226.   Bob Timmermann
Here it is:

(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

2006-07-05 20:23:31
227.   Greg Brock
221 I don't see how that's applicable. There was no appeal, and no force. A runner was tagged out while "attempting" to advance. Run scores.
2006-07-05 20:24:02
228.   Steve
221 -- I need clarification. That rule may be what they were thinking about, but am I wrong that it doesn't apply?
2006-07-05 20:24:17
229.   Uncle Miltie
218- Lofton needs to work on his D and he's 39. I guess he still has some potential.
2006-07-05 20:25:29
230.   Greg Brock
It's just the wrong call. Touched base. Tagged out. Run scores.
2006-07-05 20:25:45
231.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not sure if either rule I cited was applied correctly, but I think those are the rules that would be cited by the clerks writing the opinion in the case of Tschida v. Martinez.
2006-07-05 20:25:49
232.   overkill94
221 That makes it seem like the run should have scored because it wasn't a runner "following him" because he had already crossed home plate.

I definitely need to get some closure on this. I would like our run back, an apology from the umpire, and for the umpire to be fired.

2006-07-05 20:25:56
233.   Marty
Steve is right, why not protest just to be safe? I don't know the rules for protesting, so maybe they couldn't there.
2006-07-05 20:26:21
234.   bobbygrich
Form the other side of town, in a spare moment I went back and checked something because I knew with the Angels' resurgence (they may be only 4 back after tonite) there will be a look back at 2002 and 2004 when they were 4.5 back on July 4th. But those teams played well over .600 ball to come back. Now they have gained possibly 3 games in 5 days so that's a pretty big move and now a split won't be as bad as it could have been last week but I am just saying 4 game leads at this point of the season, barring a total collapse are not leads that should be treated lightly.
2006-07-05 20:26:42
235.   mountainmover
... or killed!

Tortured at the least!

2006-07-05 20:26:50
236.   StolenMonkey86
221- Yes, and that was not a force play, but a tag. Bad call.
2006-07-05 20:27:05
237.   trainwreck
While I was in Vegas over the weekend, I went to the WSOP and got to see most of the legends.

I can now say I have seen Jesus. Anyways, any big poker fan out there, I highly suggest go to the event it is great. Some of the guys will talk to you while they are playing. I am going back when the main event starts.

2006-07-05 20:27:12
238.   Steve
Umpires would make great general managers.

That was an open question. I know there is a protest rule that nobody uses any more. I wondered if this would fit the bill.

2006-07-05 20:27:25
239.   Nagman
If Martinez had decided to try to run away from Jackson when he was tagging him and head to second and if he had been thrown out at second, the run would've scored. So, the rule makes no sense to me.
2006-07-05 20:27:29
240.   Bluebleeder87

Trying not to laugh.

2006-07-05 20:28:19
241.   overkill94
Bonus points to whoever can cite the reference I made in the last sentence of 232
2006-07-05 20:28:51
242.   Scanman33
To me, the play is no different than if he rounded the bag to go to second and was put out. He reached 1st safely. End of story.

I'd protest it just for the fact that I want to show the umpires they kicked one. I have a feeling they've figured out by now they did anyway.

2006-07-05 20:29:12
243.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Nice to see Furcal draw a walk.


2006-07-05 20:29:46
244.   misterjohnny
Isn't the batter/runner out for making an attempt to run to second base, thus negating his ability to return to first without jeopardy. How is this any different than if he just made a big turn and got tagged out running back to first base on a single?
2006-07-05 20:30:06
245.   StolenMonkey86
226 - Did he touch the base in the first place? Because if he did, then the run should still count.
2006-07-05 20:30:16
246.   Scanman33
237-I was in Vegas last week, but didn't go to the WSOP. I might go back the first week of August and check it out.

I finished 2nd in the nightly NL tournament at Imperial Palace. $50 buy-in turned into nearly $600.

2006-07-05 20:30:18
247.   JoeyP
Has there ever been an outcome changed due to the "playing under protest" clause? I cant remember that ever mattering.
2006-07-05 20:30:49
248.   DaveP
When Cesar hits it out right here, what color does the cycle alert get set to?
2006-07-05 20:31:09
249.   Greg Brock
247 See George Brett v. New York Yankees.
2006-07-05 20:31:40
250.   Scanman33
247-The infamous Pine Tar game in 83 is the only one that instantly comes to mind. I'm sure Bob would know any others.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-05 20:31:49
251.   overkill94
241 I'll give you a clue, it's from Seinfeld
2006-07-05 20:32:05
252.   Gen3Blue
This is ridiculous. Martinez drifted into fair territory but tuned to his right. This game should be under protest period. Almost any stream of logic makes these umpires look incompetant.
2006-07-05 20:33:28
253.   mountainmover
Note to Jim Hendry:

I'll give you Guzman, Young, Hanrahan, Izturis and Repko for Carlos Zambrano!

Take it or leave it!

2006-07-05 20:34:13
254.   StolenMonkey86
Since he's batted 3 times in 4 innings, the Izturis cycle alert is still at yellow.
2006-07-05 20:34:14
255.   Steve
*PROTESTING GAMES. Each league shall adopt rules governing procedure for protesting a game, when a manager claims that an umpire's decision is in violation of these rules. No protest shall ever be permitted on judgment decisions by the umpire. In all protested games, the decision of the League President shall be final.
Even if it is held that the protested decision violated the rules, no replay of the game will be ordered unless in the opinion of the League President the violation adversely affected the protesting team's chances of winning the game.
Rule 4.19 Comment: Whenever a manager protests a game because of alleged misapplication of the rules the protest will not be recognized unless the umpires are notified at the time the play under protest occurs and before the next pitch, play or attempted play. A protest arising on a game-ending play may be filed until 12 noon the following day with the league office.
2006-07-05 20:34:50
256.   Bluebleeder87

good point but, isn't it a judge meant call also?

2006-07-05 20:35:27
257.   Scanman33
Also: Why was Drew not given an RBI on the Hudson error? There was one out, Hudson made an error on the fielder's choice and you can't assume a double play. Izturis, who was at 3rd, scored on the play (as did Nomaaaah).
2006-07-05 20:35:31
258.   overkill94
255 Do we know for sure that Grittle didn't protest? Is that something they would tell Vinny?
2006-07-05 20:36:11
259.   Uncle Miltie
Izturis has already hit for the cycle. The problem is that the umpire stole it from him when Finley made a good, but late throw to get Izturis at 2B.
2006-07-05 20:36:27
260.   Bob Timmermann
If Little had asked for a protest, there would have been an announcement over the PA system.
2006-07-05 20:36:56
261.   Jon Weisman
1) I can't fathom that the run should not have counted.
2) We would usually know if they did protest, but it's possible we don't.
3) Didn't Scioscia protest the game after the Josh Paul moment last year?
2006-07-05 20:37:24
262.   Scanman33
I believe he can protest at any time before the game ends.
2006-07-05 20:37:41
263.   Steve
I would guess that the protest rule has gone out of style because the miserable lowlife jackbooted umpires would make the next twenty years a living hell for anyone that tried it.
2006-07-05 20:38:09
264.   Gen3Blue
Well, what is important is the Umps caused an inflection point in our game.
I fear in the end it will come dowm to our bull-pen, and I am not filled with joy.
2006-07-05 20:38:24
265.   Bluebleeder87

I saw that game!

2006-07-05 20:38:36
266.   Bob Timmermann
There was a game in the 1930s between the Yankees and Red Sox where one of the teams was batting out of order the whole game and the umpire just sort of fudged it. That game had to be replayed.

There was also a game in the 1940s that had some sort of odd play and the end result was that the NL president went and declared someone out and had the game replayed from that point.

2006-07-05 20:38:49
267.   Marty
I hope I never hear another stat where Kaz Ishii is the last one to do it.
2006-07-05 20:39:06
268.   Eric L
262 He has to protest before the next pitch is thrown.
2006-07-05 20:39:44
269.   StolenMonkey86
259 - And the homer was ruled a ground rule double because it looked like it hit Luis Gonzalez's head.
2006-07-05 20:40:53
270.   bobbygrich
223 Just saw a story from a local paper in Ogden, he had the surgery in summer of 2005 after pitching pretty well in Columbus, his walk rate was a little high 7 in 24 1/3 innings but he still had a 4/1 K ratio by striking out 28.

He was signed as a free agent in 2004, pitched in the Domican Summer League and then was in the Sally league until his injury, the article states that he could possibly be in Ogden for a short while before returning to Columbus.

Another prospect in Columbus in Brent Leach but he needs to get his control in order.

2006-07-05 20:41:11
271.   Bluebleeder87

point taken

2006-07-05 20:42:02
272.   Bob Timmermann
Here's a protest that was upheld. This is from the Retrosheet site:

July 20, 1947, St. Louis at Brooklyn: In the top of the ninth with the Cards ahead 2-0, Ron Northey hits a high fly deep to the wall in right center. The Dodgers CF Pete Reiser leaps but can't catch it, and after a couple of seconds the ball drops back on the field where RF Dixie Walker fields it, relays it to 2B Eddie Stanky, whose throw nails Northey at home. The first base umpire (there was a three man crew in those days) immediately ruled the ball in play, but the other base umpire signaled to Northey that it was a homer, so Northey slowed up. He was ruled out at the plate, and the Cards protested the game saying Northey had been deceived by the umpire and would have scored if he had not slowed down.

In the bottom of the ninth, the Dodgers scored three runs to win the game before the protest by a 3-2 score. NL President Ford Frick, who later became Commissioner, upheld the protest and awarded Northey a home run. However, he did not order the game resumed in the top of the ninth with the Cards ahead 3-0, which would have been the normal procedure called for by the rules. He allowed the Dodgers' runs to stand and ruled the game a 3-3 tie. (We can only speculate on what he would have decided if the Dodgers had hit a homer in the bottom of the ninth and scored four runs.) All the records counted except for the pitchers' win and loss. The game was replayed in its entirety as part of a doubleheader on August 18 that the Dodgers won.

2006-07-05 20:42:32
273.   Marty
I run an IT staff and we were referred to as "jack-booted thugs" once.
2006-07-05 20:42:55
274.   LAT
If Gonzo keeps playing this poorly they are going to have a problem on thier hands. He is not going to go quietly. From the Snakepit blog:

Luis Gonzalez's career with the Arizona Diamondbacks is coming to an end. He knows it, you know it, and the Diamondbacks know it, even while they continue to praise Gonzalez... "I could run off and hit 30 homers, and they may still not want me back," Gonzalez said. The question becomes, then, not whether Gonzalez will clear out his locker, but when. And more importantly, how.
...let's say Gonzalez remains a Diamondback all season. What then? Clearly, if Gonzalez continues to struggle at the plate and Arizona falls out of contention in the National League West, it would make sense to give Hairston, who hit .340 with 18 homers and 55 RBIs at Triple-A Tucson, the chance to play every day. But could the Diamondbacks put the face of their franchise on the bench? How would that play in the clubhouse, where the respect for Gonzalez is universal?

Gonzalez made it clear he will not accept a reserve role. "That is not an option," Gonzalez said. But it's not his decision. "That is not an option," he said again. Now you know why this can get ugly. The backdrop here is Gonzalez's tenuous relationship with managing general partner Ken Kendrick. Gonzalez hasn't gotten over the fact Kendrick dropped his name in a conversation about steroids, and that one careless comment has strained his relationship with the organization. Gonzalez has had a glorious career with the Diamondbacks. He and Randy Johnson were the pillars the franchise was built on. But, eight years later, it's time for a divorce. Let's just hope, somehow, that it's an amicable one.

2006-07-05 20:43:07
275.   Uncle Miltie
269- probably a different game. He did hit a home run in that game. I think it was in 2004. It was at Arizona.
2006-07-05 20:43:35
276.   JoeyP
I'm surprised the Dbax didnt pinch hit for Vargas in the top half of this inning. He's at 80 pitches, and hasnt been particularly effective tonite. I think hoping he can get through 1 more inning is pretty risky.
2006-07-05 20:44:19
277.   Bob Timmermann
Scioscia couldn't have protested the call in Game 2 of the ALCS since that was a judgment call.
2006-07-05 20:45:15
278.   LAT
Vin confirming Weaver trade.
Now its official.
2006-07-05 20:45:25
279.   overkill94
Wow, going into tonight the Dodgers were first in runs scored but last in home runs (now tied for last with the Cubs). Has that ever happened over a full season?
2006-07-05 20:45:44
280.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds and Brewers are tied in the 12th. If the Reds lose and the Dodgers hold on to win, then there will be a 3-way tie for both the NL West AND wildcard.
2006-07-05 20:46:17
281.   Steve
You must run some kind of IT staff Marty.
2006-07-05 20:46:19
282.   mountainmover
Jeff Weaver is now a Cardinal?
2006-07-05 20:46:45
283.   Marty
If Eithier keeps this up it's going to be 3.5 million next year.
2006-07-05 20:46:58
284.   D4P
Any reason for the following disparities?

2006 Dodgers

2006-07-05 20:47:02
285.   mountainmover
But, is he a pitcher?
2006-07-05 20:47:07
286.   Eric L
277 Though he may have had a valid protest if he said that the umpire called AJ out and let the play continue.
2006-07-05 20:47:13
287.   Steve
281 -- That made sense in my head, but no sense in print. It needs the proper inflection.
2006-07-05 20:47:39
288.   Bob Timmermann
And in Milwaukee, it's Rick Helling and Esteban Yan dueling out!
2006-07-05 20:47:42
289.   Marty
281 Well, let's just say I have temperamental, technology-challenged users....
2006-07-05 20:48:01
290.   Greg Brock
I hope the Dodgers put five on this kid, just because he wears his hat like a teenager with a lowered truck. Straighten out your lid, and give me 100 divebacks.
2006-07-05 20:48:01
291.   Bob Timmermann
288 needed the word "it". Figure out where it goes.
2006-07-05 20:49:04
292.   trainwreck
Didn't touch the base? Bull...
2006-07-05 20:49:09
293.   Uncle Miltie
I heard about this story on the radio

It was hilarious because they kept playing "It's a Man's World"

2006-07-05 20:49:10
294.   LAT
Is anyone going to tell me what happened to Gagne?
2006-07-05 20:49:25
295.   overkill94
Wow, now they're saying Martinez didn't touch first base??? Then why did he call him safe in the first palce?
2006-07-05 20:49:38
296.   Steve
289 -- Can't imagine who you might be referring to...
2006-07-05 20:49:52
297.   Bob Timmermann
I smell a coverup! This is why Martha Stewart ended up going to jail!
2006-07-05 20:50:10
298.   Greg Brock
He wouldn't have signaled safe if he missed the bag. But whatever.
2006-07-05 20:50:31
299.   LAT
If Ramon missed the bag why did the ump call him safe? Vin is on these guys as bad as I can remember. Well deserved, I might add. He really knows how to damn them with faint praise.
2006-07-05 20:50:59
300.   Jon Weisman
The similarities to the Paul incident are compelling, though. Combination of a bonehead call with a bonehead move by a player that could have prevented said bonehead call.

For those not watching on TV, they are now saying that the call was that Martinez missed the base - even though the umpire originally signaled Martinez safe at first and even though it appears Martinez hit the base.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-07-05 20:51:04
301.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I love Vin's.. "Well, okay" response to this latest story from the umpires.

Would it be so hard for the ump to just read the rulebook and admit the error?


2006-07-05 20:51:37
302.   Bluebleeder87
It's official mersy call by the umps.
2006-07-05 20:51:45
303.   Steve
Would it be so hard for the ump to just read the rulebook and admit the error?

You ask for miracles.

2006-07-05 20:51:48
304.   Gen3Blue
Vin just cooked that umps goose. That is the stupidest call I ever saw. Not the worst, but unquestionably the most un-supportable.
2006-07-05 20:51:55
305.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers win, is this whole argument made "moot" or is it just made "irrelevant."

Lawyers have told me I use "moot" wrong.

2006-07-05 20:52:47
306.   Jon Weisman
When in doubt, mootify.
2006-07-05 20:53:10
307.   LAT
Marty if you are anything like our IT director you firmly believe the computer system is not to be used, especially by atorneys.
2006-07-05 20:53:32
308.   overkill94
302 Is that similar to the ole Mersey Beat music from the 60s?
2006-07-05 20:54:50
309.   bobbygrich
Something nice in amidst of all this chaos:

Think Blue: As part of the Dodger Fan Rewards Club's Think Blue Week, spina bifida sufferer Josiah Delgadillo won the chance to take batting practice on Thursday with Dodgers coach Manny Mota.

"Taking batting practice with Coach Mota will be the ultimate stick-it-to-them scenario to all the people who have told me I would not be able to even pick up a bat, let alone be a decent hitter," Delgadillo said.

2006-07-05 20:54:53
310.   Bob Timmermann
If you want mercy in California, we've got a whole county in the Central Valley dedicated to it.
2006-07-05 20:56:12
311.   Eric L
Okay, so I usually back the umpires. I think they have a very tough job and get the calls right far more often than they get credit for.

On that call, I see a couple of things wrong. Tschida (is that how you spell it?) called him safe when he saw him touch the bag. If it was the other way around, he would have to be knucklehead to call Martinez out for turning towards second.

The way I've always been taught the rule about turning the wrong way at 1st is that the runner has to be making an attempt to go to second. Just turning the wrong way isn't an attempt to go to second.

Ah well, both versions of the call were judgements.

2006-07-05 20:57:19
312.   Marty
307 Naw, I just like to think that if you depend on a system to do your job, you should maybe learn how to use it. But I'm not bitter...:)
2006-07-05 20:57:27
313.   Bob Timmermann
Ignore 310, I messed that up as I translated a word incorrectly.
2006-07-05 20:59:31
314.   StolenMonkey86
301 - We have a better chance of Ned Colletti admitting Danys Baez was a mistake.
2006-07-05 21:00:13
315.   Greg Brock
312 If everyone knew how to use their network/computers, IT people wouldn't have the opportunity to walk around angry, impersonal and short tempered. And who would want to deny them that?
2006-07-05 21:01:10
316.   Suffering Bruin
313 To paraphrase Vinny, "It is 9pm on 7/5/2006 and Bob Timmerman has made a mistake on, of all things, language."

Sorry, Bob, but it's not often I log on after a night of work and get to see history. :)

2006-07-05 21:01:17
317.   bobbygrich
305 From the American Heritage Dictionary (Online)

The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate.

But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean "of no significance or relevance." Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value.

A number of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent of the Usage Panel accepts it in the sentence "The nominee himself chastised the White House for failing to do more to support him, but his concerns became moot when a number of Republicans announced that they, too, would oppose the nomination."

When using moot one should be sure that the context makes clear which sense is meant.

2006-07-05 21:01:46
318.   Bob Timmermann
If everybody knew how to use all the parts of their computers correctly, then people like me can't make simple repairs and be regarded as a technology god.
2006-07-05 21:01:48
319.   StolenMonkey86
can Gonzalez ground into another DP?
2006-07-05 21:02:01
320.   Suffering Bruin
315 L.O.L!
2006-07-05 21:02:02
321.   Bluebleeder87
whoa that was close (Gonzo)
2006-07-05 21:02:42
322.   Bob Timmermann

Now the hard thing is trying to figure what mistake I made! I just said I made a mistake, but I didn't specify it.

2006-07-05 21:03:04
323.   Suffering Bruin
317 I lost you on the third moot.
2006-07-05 21:03:18
324.   JoeyP
Dbax have quite a bit of dead sunk cost money tied up in Gonzalez/Green.
2006-07-05 21:04:05
325.   Suffering Bruin
322 I didn't read carefully enough... does that surprise you?

But one day, Timmerman, one day!

2006-07-05 21:05:09
326.   Bob Timmermann

You're just bummed because you didn't win the t-shirt.

2006-07-05 21:05:28
327.   LAT
Ethier makes ESPN top ten tonight.
2006-07-05 21:05:44
328.   Suffering Bruin
I never had an opinion on the Ethier/Bradley trade... if it's not too late, I'd like to go on record as saying I like the trade.
2006-07-05 21:05:55
329.   Greg Brock
3.5 Baby...3.5
2006-07-05 21:07:11
330.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know but, I hope we score more runs, Kinda like saying were for real watch out.
2006-07-05 21:07:26
331.   Bob Timmermann
Going to the 13th in Cream City. Milwaukee will be bringing in their 8th pitcher of the night. The Reds have used seven.
2006-07-05 21:07:36
332.   bobbygrich
320 I think the usage that Bob was referring to is in the latter part of that entry, if the Dodgers win, then any protest would be moot because in the end, it would not matter how it came out, the result is already determined.

I think initially, a moot question would be like what came first the chicken or the egg? It's an open for discussion with no solution forthcoming. Now, it use is more like say irrelevant because you know that the ultimate issue is determined.

2006-07-05 21:08:33
333.   Uncle Miltie
Wow, Crawford's steal of home is pretty amazing. It's on
2006-07-05 21:08:51
334.   bobbygrich
I hope I did my part, Bob I know you picked Italy to play France but if you posted that final, the contest would have been "moot"
2006-07-05 21:09:20
335.   Suffering Bruin
326 Well... yeah. But I can't be too bummed since I finished, what, second to last?

Damn the Spanish, damn the Danish, the Dutch, the Hollish...

2006-07-05 21:10:25
336.   overkill94
Penny with 87 pitches through 6, maybe he has finally learned how to conserve his pitches a little bit?
2006-07-05 21:11:42
337.   Suffering Bruin
Hey, I'm late to this party. Anybody get HBP? I'd check that would require actual effort...
2006-07-05 21:12:27
338.   Daniel Zappala
Bartolo Colon just threw a complete game on only 91 pitches. The Angels are now only 4 games back and 4 games under .500. With Weaver the Greater called up, they have a formidable staff. My prediction: Angels win the west and finish with a better record than the Dodgers.
2006-07-05 21:12:40
339.   Greg Brock
335 The Hollish...Still my favorite ugly American nomenclature ever. Well done, SB.
2006-07-05 21:14:08
340.   Bob Timmermann
From our friends at the OED:

moot, a.

2. N. Amer. (orig. Law). Of a case, issue, etc.: having no practical significance or relevance; abstract, academic.
Now the usual sense in North America.

A "moot" can also be a small legislative or deliberative group.

"Moot" can also mean "tree stump" or "buttocks."

And a "moot" was the name of a tool used in shipbuilding in the 19th Century.

The words preceding "moot" in the OED are "mooseburger", "moosewood", "moosey", and "moo shu"

2006-07-05 21:15:11
341.   Bob Timmermann
On Friday, the Mariners got shut out on 90 pitches by Josh Fogg of Colorado.

The M's don't like to waste time.

2006-07-05 21:15:29
342.   Suffering Bruin
339 Thanks. My wife--a world traveler from India--is terribly concerned when we take what will be my first trip to Europe. She's been all over the world and I went to Mexico on a date about twenty years ago.

She's concerned.

2006-07-05 21:15:44
343.   bobbygrich
BTW the outfielder the Cardinals traded for Weaver and cash considerations, wasn't on their 40 man roster.

I'd say it would be comaparable to trading Wilkin Ruan for Weaver.

2006-07-05 21:16:10
344.   Greg Brock
Mooseburger: 1. N. Amer. Annoying ABC announcer who really likes the Big-10 and mispronouncing soccer names.
2006-07-05 21:16:27
345.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds just took the lead in Milwaukee when old friend Juan Castro scored from second on a sacrifice bunt.

But the Brewers got the out at first!

2006-07-05 21:17:17
346.   Suffering Bruin
A "moot" can also be a small legislative or deliberative group.

Hey! That's us! We're moots! Or a moot... or something.

2006-07-05 21:17:19
347.   JoeyP
Have they told Furcal to run everytime he's on base, regardless of whether he gets caught or not?
2006-07-05 21:18:42
348.   Gen3Blue
"Language and particularly English is very mutable and evolving. It is not unusual for a words meaning to become opposite over a relativaly short period."
Go D's.
2006-07-05 21:19:03
349.   JoeyP
Stop the presses.
Izzy with his 4th walk in 52ABs.
2006-07-05 21:19:20
350.   StolenMonkey86
Great, Aquino. He can't hit for the cycle if you walk him. I hope you intend to let the lineup go through twice more by the end of the 8th.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-07-05 21:20:00
351.   Daniel Zappala
343 Terry Evans has had 3 or 4 bad years in the minors, and suddenly this year he is displaying amazing power. Most likely a fluke and he will never reach the bigs. But we can still hope.
2006-07-05 21:20:37
352.   bobbygrich
338 They may do that but their offense has been inconsistent to say the least, they have a shot with 4 games in Oakland and the first 13 after the break against Tampa Bay, Cleveland and KC but after that they play the Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers, White Sox and their divisional rivals.

Getting to .500 will be a good place to get to but lets wait and see what happens in the next 2-3 weeks.

2006-07-05 21:20:43
353.   Daniel Zappala
Nice blog entry on Evans:

2006-07-05 21:20:53
354.   Suffering Bruin
Tom Stoppard in "Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead."

"You have to remember we are dealing with a language that makes up in obscurity what it lacks in style."

He was talking about English.

2006-07-05 21:23:35
355.   StolenMonkey86
Now entering the 7th inning, Brad Penny.
2006-07-05 21:23:54
356.   bobbygrich
One of my favorite Seinfeld quotes that makes no sense.

"The sea was angry that day, my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli."

2006-07-05 21:24:47
357.   Bob Timmermann
Brewers with the sacks drunk and nobody out in the bottom of the 13th.
2006-07-05 21:25:31
358.   Daniel Zappala
352 True. But Vlad has been in a slump all year, Morales is finally hitting well, and Rivera is now in the lineup full time. Erstad is out indefinitely and that's a good thing. They're still missing McPherson and Kotchman, who both can hit well and have power. I'm optimistic about the offense trending up the second half of the season.
2006-07-05 21:25:42
359.   Bob Timmermann

That makes sense to me.

2006-07-05 21:25:48
360.   Gen3Blue
355 Holy Cow, Penny has less than 100 pitches going into the seventh.
2006-07-05 21:26:20
361.   Bob Timmermann
Brewers win on a single by Weeks. So the NL West is in the wildcard spot!
2006-07-05 21:26:36
362.   bobbygrich
Bases loaded, no out in Milwaukee
2006-07-05 21:27:03
363.   bobbygrich
Gameday slow out here.
2006-07-05 21:27:30
364.   King of the Hobos
Ogden won 20-7 tonight. They had 16 hits, 4 walks, and an amazing 8 HBPs. Catcher Carlos Medero-Stullz was personally hit 4 times, and he was only in the game because starting catcher John Martin was removed after being hit himself. Josh Bell, probably the best hitting prospect in Ogden, had his first homer. Sorry if this was already mentioned, I haven't really read the entire thread.
2006-07-05 21:30:13
365.   bobbygrich
361 Bob, my game report shows a ground rule double ending the game, what other game ended on a "double" in Milwaukee.
2006-07-05 21:30:30
366.   Jon Weisman
356 - That makes perfect sense. That's what was so great about it - it was so off-the-wall yet so perfect.
2006-07-05 21:30:51
367.   das411
Meanwhile, don't look now but Tampa Bay has taken three in a row from the Bosox and could finish off the four game sweep tomorrow. Going against Wakefield for the DRays: Jamie Shields!!

Geez, between CC stealing around the horn tonight, Kazmir's CG shutout, and that hot-hitting new catcher, they just might be growing into a fun team to watch these days...

2006-07-05 21:31:14
368.   Uncle Miltie
Penny was really out of gas there. The only pitch that he had command of was his curve. In the offseason, he needs to lose a few pounds so he can increase his stamina.
2006-07-05 21:32:13
369.   King of the Hobos
Kendrick went 0-4 tonight and Loney is 1-1 after a PH, 2 run single. They were tied for the lead in the PCL with .378 averages to begin the night, but Loney now leads Kendrick .380 to .373. Scott Hairston is a distant 3rd with .340, and he's currently on the major league disabled list I believe.
2006-07-05 21:32:33
370.   Daniel Zappala
Penny has 106 pitches after 7. We know Saito has the 9th. Who gets the 8th? Penny? Carrara? Beimel? Crazy that I don't even know who the setup man may be.
2006-07-05 21:34:25
371.   Bluebleeder87
J.D. looking hot now.
2006-07-05 21:34:56
372.   Gen3Blue
368 with Penniy's style, I'm not sure he can get in shape to go deeper than about 7.
So we enter another great adventure!
2006-07-05 21:34:59
373.   Bob Timmermann
Crawford didn't steal around the horn. He stole second and home on one trip and third in a different inning.

Eric Young is the last player to steal his way around the bases back in 1996. Chris Stynes did it a few weeks before Young.

2006-07-05 21:35:31
374.   MartinBillingsley31
Who gets the 8th?

It should be broxton if not penny.

2006-07-05 21:36:10
375.   trainwreck
The Diamondbacks cannot play defense.
2006-07-05 21:36:27
376.   D4P
J.D. looking hot now.

And his bat has been heating up as well.

2006-07-05 21:36:38
377.   LAT
I've seen Little League teams field better than the D'Backs
2006-07-05 21:36:45
378.   Bluebleeder87

who's batting in the 8th? lefties? (bring in Beimel)

2006-07-05 21:36:58
379.   JoeyP
If the Dodgers hold on, that will make them 23-13 in games started by Penny/Lowe.
2006-07-05 21:37:03
380.   D4P
The Diamondbacks cannot play defense

As a wise man once said, "Arizona is mucho incompetent."

2006-07-05 21:37:10
381.   Andrew Shimmin
Didn't look like he was on the bag, even if he did catch that throw.
2006-07-05 21:37:53
382.   Greg Brock
376 Hey-O!
2006-07-05 21:38:05
383.   Gen3Blue
Did they actually call that an out at second! I thought you lost the phantom DP if you dropped the ball. Atempted FIX.
2006-07-05 21:38:44
384.   bobbygrich
375 I remeber in 2004, D-Backs were so bad defensively that Vin would call them out basically saying that they due to injuries, etc., they were not fielding (what a pun) a MLB quality defensive team.
2006-07-05 21:38:52
385.   Bluebleeder87

when did Broxton pitch last? I say Beimel if lefties are coming up, or else bring in Carrara.

2006-07-05 21:39:34
386.   Uncle Miltie
The D'backs got a LOOGY for John Patterson. How does it feel to be robbed by Jim Bowden?
2006-07-05 21:40:08
387.   Gen3Blue
379 If the D's hang on to win, they will thwart an obvious attempt to FIX.
2006-07-05 21:40:40
388.   King of the Hobos
378 Should be Byrnes-Tracy-Jackson, which Gameday tells me is R-L-R, so maybe we can get a Baez-Beimel-Broxton combination out there in an attempt to needlessly empty the bullpen.
2006-07-05 21:40:59
389.   Bluebleeder87

I'm a huge fan of the 'ol neighborhood play

2006-07-05 21:42:23
390.   King of the Hobos
386 Wasn't that Minaya (or whoever preceded Bowden) who did that?
2006-07-05 21:43:00
391.   Gen3Blue
Vin said the Umps had a meeting. But with who! Isn't Arizona near Vegas ?
2006-07-05 21:44:02
392.   Suffering Bruin
Vinny is verbalizing exactly what I was thinking at the time. Imagine that Martinez play late in the year with a division title at stake. Or what the hey, the post-season.

The runner missed the bag and that's why he was called out. Yeah, that'll play.

2006-07-05 21:44:12
393.   Bob Timmermann
Diamondbacks = Juventus
2006-07-05 21:44:17
394.   Steve
This thing with the "missed base" and all is probably the most embarrassing thing to ever happen on a baseball diamond to an umpire. He could have pulled his pants down and danced a tango with Steve Lyons and not looked any more stupid. Torture would be too good. Umpires are the worst scum. Worse than Devil Rays pitchers.
2006-07-05 21:44:58
395.   StolenMonkey86
Baez pitched last night. That's a good excuse for not using him.
2006-07-05 21:46:34
396.   the OZ
Nothing is Baez-proof. Except Matt Kemp.
2006-07-05 21:46:42
397.   Greg Brock
392 The bigger the lie...
2006-07-05 21:46:45
398.   Uncle Miltie
390- you're right it was Minaya, that's almost as bad.

I think Baez is coming in. It must be a reward for what he did yesterday.

2006-07-05 21:46:49
399.   bobbygrich
395 I disagree, he needs consistent work, it would be a perfect spot.
2006-07-05 21:48:11
400.   Suffering Bruin
395 Not good enough, apparently...
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-07-05 21:49:28
401.   Bluebleeder87
Let's plunk a guy, just for the fun of it.
2006-07-05 21:49:41
402.   Suffering Bruin
Shawn Green pinch-hitting vs. Baez?
2006-07-05 21:49:42
403.   StolenMonkey86
396 - I think 3.5 is Baez-proof . . .
2006-07-05 21:51:03
404.   Suffering Bruin
401 Almost got your wish.
2006-07-05 21:51:49
405.   Suffering Bruin
That was a good fastball with a lot of movement.
2006-07-05 21:51:53
406.   StolenMonkey86
I'm not comfortable until someone's out, and I'm not comfortable period if anyone's in scoring position with less than 2 outs.

Why Grady, why?

2006-07-05 21:52:07
407.   Bluebleeder87

as tall as you are I wouldn't be intimidated SB.

2006-07-05 21:53:10
408.   Suffering Bruin
Martin would appear to have a gun for an arm. Byrnes had a huge jump and it was close.
2006-07-05 21:53:30
409.   Bluebleeder87
Baez will be o.k. (hoping)
2006-07-05 21:53:34
410.   Greg Brock
For those of you unable to watch the game, slo-mo shows that booooyrnes was out on that play.
2006-07-05 21:53:57
411.   Suffering Bruin
407 ?
2006-07-05 21:55:24
412.   trainwreck
That was weak!
2006-07-05 21:55:56
413.   Bluebleeder87

aren't you the guy next to Jon on the DT get together? (pic)

2006-07-05 21:56:28
414.   StolenMonkey86
Well, he hit Gonzalez. Please eject him, mr umpire.
2006-07-05 21:56:32
415.   LAT
Baez never makes it easy. Gives up lead off single, behind in the count, almost wild pitch, hits batter, brings tying runner to the plate. He stinks.
2006-07-05 21:56:36
416.   King of the Hobos
401 And you get your wish. Good thing Little ejected Baez after the ump forgot.
2006-07-05 21:57:13
417.   Suffering Bruin
Yeah, that's me! 6-1! Towering over my fellow DT colleagues, no?

And it's also evident I could use some exercise...

2006-07-05 21:57:21
418.   Andrew Shimmin
No way did that hit him.
2006-07-05 21:57:33
419.   overkill94
Did that even hit him?
2006-07-05 21:57:42
420.   Bluebleeder87
I would have left him in. JMO.(Baez)
2006-07-05 21:58:20
421.   Uncle Miltie
412- That's exactly what I was going to say. That was not Danys' revenge.
2006-07-05 21:59:31
422.   LAT
So help me if we lose this game, demoralized before a 4 game series with the Giants, I will find out where Danys lives.
2006-07-05 21:59:38
423.   StolenMonkey86
Yay, Jose Cruz leads off next inning. I guess he doesn't want to take away Saito's save situation.
2006-07-05 21:59:45
424.   Suffering Bruin
I accidentally changed the channel and missed the Gonzo HBP.

I remember when he played on the Alaska League team and he was always trying to get hit. He didn't have the open stance back then and he always would lean his knee or his elbow while "pretending" to get out of the way of inside pitch.

And, as I've said before, about as nice a guy as you would want to meet.

2006-07-05 22:00:13
425.   StolenMonkey86
423 - And my fantasy team thanks him.
2006-07-05 22:00:17
426.   Bluebleeder87
Saito seems to hide the ball really well, these hitters can't read him at all!
2006-07-05 22:01:45
427.   D4P
2/3 scoreless innings from Baez is all you can ask.
2006-07-05 22:01:47
428.   Bluebleeder87

I've heard he's a really cool dude also.

2006-07-05 22:02:04
429.   LAT
Why does Fox only show 1 Dback error. Gameday shows 2. Seems like there have been many more.
2006-07-05 22:02:14
430.   Suffering Bruin
Okay, guys. We had "Game Over" and briefly we had "Ghame Over."

We need something for Saito, right?

2006-07-05 22:02:33
431.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry to drop in a soccer line, but this was the postgame quote from Portugal coach Luiz Felipe Scolari after his team lost 1-0 to France.

"We did everything possible but if you don't score you don't win the game," said the Brazilian.

That's almost Jim Tracy-like.

2006-07-05 22:02:51
432.   ninjavshippo
sayonara senores?
2006-07-05 22:03:32
433.   StolenMonkey86
How about "You lose! Go back to your hotel!"
2006-07-05 22:03:42
434.   Bob Timmermann
ゲーム ?
2006-07-05 22:04:03
435.   JoeyP
Baez was behind in the count to just about each batter. If the Dbax had any plate discipline at all, they might have rallied.
2006-07-05 22:04:28
436.   Gen3Blue
I know I got out of line yelling and using Caps about the umpires trying to fix it.
Using Baez the D's were also involved, so I'll be quite.
2006-07-05 22:04:32
437.   Bluebleeder87
I kind of don't agree with Graddy taking Baez out.
2006-07-05 22:05:21
438.   LAT
If Uncle Milte is Prez of the Dump Jeff Kemp movement I want to be CEO of the DFA Danys campaign.
2006-07-05 22:07:15
439.   Bluebleeder87
what??? Izzy likes rap? (his intro song)
2006-07-05 22:07:55
440.   Suffering Bruin
431 Yeah, but Scolari was right. Jim Tracy would've said, "It's tough to win when you don't score" which would've left open the possibility of winning without scoring and would've been a sarcastic dig as this players to boot.

Then, Tracy would've said, "I've seen headers made from that close before. I've seen that goal made by players before," just before Figo kicked him in the shins.

2006-07-05 22:08:17
441.   Steve
438 -- Only in a hostile takeover, buddy.
2006-07-05 22:08:21
442.   D4P
If Uncle Milte is Prez of the Dump Jeff Kemp movement

Hanging Billingsleys! I demand a recount!

2006-07-05 22:08:33
443.   Bob Timmermann
Of course there's always:

--. .- -- . / --- ...- . .-.

2006-07-05 22:09:03
444.   xaphor
[431] That's a little too cliché for Tracy. He would say something along the lines of, "we didn't put the ball in a position to score."
2006-07-05 22:09:20
445.   StolenMonkey86
Will we even get a draft pick for him next year?
2006-07-05 22:09:33
446.   Bluebleeder87
hearing Vinnie reminds me, of me copieng Nomar & my girlfriend laughing like crazy watching Nomar repeat what I just did.
2006-07-05 22:09:42
447.   Suffering Bruin
433 damn near made me drop my laptop from laughing but 434 will get a t-shirt made if Saito becomes the Closer.
2006-07-05 22:10:40
448.   Steve
Speaking of Jim Tracy, I don't think I've ever seen Grittle so desperate to run for no reason than in that inning.
2006-07-05 22:11:04
449.   Bob Timmermann
I have no idea if 434 even means what Babelfish gave me as the translation.

I sent it on to someone who is Japanese to see what they think.

2006-07-05 22:12:47
450.   Greg Brock
443 Bob loves the Morse today.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-07-05 22:13:23
451.   natepurcell
Will we even get a draft pick for him next year?

he had 41 saves last year, that will weigh significantly in his free agent type determination.

2006-07-05 22:13:43
452.   Suffering Bruin
448 How about that sac bunt try by Furcal? On an 0-1 count, no less?

See, we talk about Tracy and we play as if we're being managed by him.

2006-07-05 22:14:57
453.   Bob Timmermann
The Morse code is of course in honor of Tacoma Rainiers shortstop Mike Morse who is going to have arthroscopic surgery on his knee after getting injured in a game that I saw him play in.

It's my little tribute.

2006-07-05 22:15:19
454.   King of the Hobos
451 Wasn't Carrara a Type A player last season? If he was, Baez is a Type A easily.
2006-07-05 22:15:23
455.   Suffering Bruin
I'm trying to work with something like "Saito-morrow"
2006-07-05 22:16:01
456.   Steve
Nah, Tracy would have pulled Baez there but brought in Carrara. I like the Grittle. Grittle is basically what everybody kept claiming Tracy was except that he wasn't.
2006-07-05 22:16:10
457.   ninjavshippo
This Mr. Saito is good at baseball.
2006-07-05 22:18:05
458.   Steve
Walking Craig Counsell is like crossing the streams -- bad.
2006-07-05 22:18:32
459.   Greg Brock
453 In that case, I'm really glad that Glenn Swahili didn't get hurt.

No, there is no Glenn Swahili.

2006-07-05 22:18:57
460.   Jon Weisman
458 - Wow, great analogy.
2006-07-05 22:18:58
461.   Suffering Bruin
456 Don't forget the double-switch to bring Mike Edwards in the game.
2006-07-05 22:19:09
462.   Bob Timmermann
I'm trying to find a way to write in semaphore, but that has some technical issues.
2006-07-05 22:19:19
463.   ninjavshippo
If walking Craig Counsell helps bring down the stay-puff marshmallow man, I'm on board for it.
2006-07-05 22:19:25
464.   xaphor
Outa-Saito :P
2006-07-05 22:19:41
465.   Greg Brock
458 Wow, that was fantastic.
2006-07-05 22:20:41
466.   Suffering Bruin
458 There's definitely a very small chance we may survive.

"I love this idea! I'm excited to be a part of it! Let's do it!"

2006-07-05 22:21:46
467.   Suffering Bruin
458 Oh, by the way, that's an early nominee for post of the year.
2006-07-05 22:22:29
468.   ninjavshippo
yeesh... talk about a tightrope act.
2006-07-05 22:22:39
469.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
I can't take the GameTracker suspense...
2006-07-05 22:22:42
470.   natepurcell
uh-oh, spaghetti-0's!
2006-07-05 22:22:45
471.   Uncle Miltie
This umpire is squeezing Saito
2006-07-05 22:22:50
472.   Steve
I just don't get why you would continually throw fastballs inside to Craig Counsell. Why? I just don't see the huge need.
2006-07-05 22:23:00
473.   Eric L
456 It's funny too.. you read comments about Grittle on BBTF and the Boston fans act like he was the worst manager they had ever seen in a Boston uniform.
2006-07-05 22:23:13
474.   Suffering Bruin
It's nervous time, no?
2006-07-05 22:23:13
475.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Oh, man. Loaded them up!
2006-07-05 22:23:36
476.   StolenMonkey86
let's see what he does to chad
2006-07-05 22:23:37
477.   Jon Weisman
Someone else had another perfect line yesterday or today - but I forgot it. I meant to take note of it.
2006-07-05 22:23:43
478.   Steve
But then you would throw two fastballs right over the plate to Chad Tracy with the bases loaded? See, this is what I just don't get.
2006-07-05 22:24:19
479.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Go get him! Get him now!!!
2006-07-05 22:24:26
480.   ninjavshippo
2006-07-05 22:24:40
481.   Uncle Miltie
Bring in the Bull!
2006-07-05 22:25:03
482.   Bluebleeder87
Well it's interesting now.5-4 Dodgers.
2006-07-05 22:25:09
483.   Suffering Bruin
He left a slider up.

Two terrific fastballs in a row and he hangs the slider.

2006-07-05 22:25:13
484.   Steve
I don't know who's doing the pitch-calling, but if it's our fair-haired golden boy, he can stop now.
2006-07-05 22:25:28
485.   Greg Brock
Why are you not throwing a deuce in the dirt, or a fastball four inches off the plate. IT'S 0-2!
2006-07-05 22:25:35
486.   ninjavshippo
is it time to put the "H" by Saito's name in the box score and go get the bull?
2006-07-05 22:25:37
487.   StolenMonkey86
Enter big man.
2006-07-05 22:25:53
488.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Ooops. Not that kind of getting him...
2006-07-05 22:25:55
489.   Suffering Bruin
The marshmellow man is at the very top of Central Park West.
2006-07-05 22:25:57
490.   trainwreck
Under protest! Under protest! Someone ask for it!
2006-07-05 22:26:55
491.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Last chance to hit another batter, and it isn't Gonzo...
2006-07-05 22:26:57
492.   Bluebleeder87

just what I was thinking

2006-07-05 22:26:59
493.   Suffering Bruin
Now, how big does that run being taken off the board look?
2006-07-05 22:27:24
494.   StolenMonkey86
486 - yes. This game has been a load of bull already, so it would be appropriate
2006-07-05 22:28:08
495.   ninjavshippo
come on saito! time to put away the pride of el camino high...
2006-07-05 22:29:38
496.   StolenMonkey86
Did Saito pitch effectively enough for a save?
2006-07-05 22:30:42
497.   Suffering Bruin

39 pitches. If he throws tomorrow, we know Lasorda is calling the shots.

2006-07-05 22:30:44
498.   Uncle Miltie
I'm going to have nightmares of Jeff Shaw Jr. tonight.
2006-07-05 22:30:44
499.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
2006-07-05 22:32:18
500.   Steve
Now that was a pitch to end on.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-07-05 22:33:48
501.   JoeyP
Its at least nice to be on the winning side of a bullpen meltdown.
Too often this year the bullpen would totally blow it.
Tonite, they blew some of it, but still got a Mitch Williams-esque win.
2006-07-05 22:34:18
502.   ninjavshippo
whoa.. did anyone else have a toaster problem there? i thought maybe we smushed it under the weight of our collective refreshing.... or foul play was afoot involving the aforementioned marshmallow man
2006-07-05 22:35:41
503.   natepurcell
im glad the inevitable saito meltdown wasn't tonight. Can it wait til next season please?
2006-07-05 22:35:50
504.   xaphor
It's what separates the Saitos from Baezes.
2006-07-05 22:36:20
505.   LAT
442 Sorry D4P didn't mean to start a palace coup.

441. Ok, but only becasue I have no idea how to set up the website

2006-07-05 22:36:31
506.   Greg Brock
BTW...Alphonse and Gaston are doing about the worst job of explaining the Martinez play you can possibly imagine on Dodgers Live. Think monkeys and typewriters.
2006-07-05 22:38:27
507.   JoeyP
39 pitches. If he throws tomorrow

Cain vs Hendrickson tomorrow.
I doubt Saito will be needed.

2006-07-05 22:38:31
508.   natepurcell

how about Zoolander and Hansel and apple computers?

2006-07-05 22:39:42
509.   Gen3Blue
Great discusion. Lyons--just because the Ump calls him safe doesn't make one safe--blah blah - blah.
And that out at second on the phantom DP--absolutely unbelievable. I mean overturning decades of tradition. I'm not surprised by the sloppiness, just the lack of either logic or shame.
2006-07-05 22:39:45
510.   Gagne55
Wow. I thought for sure that Jackson was going to get a base hit. When I saw him swing and miss I was so relieved. And quite happily suprised.
2006-07-05 22:39:55
511.   natepurcell

You mean because Hendricksons going for a complete game against Matt 5.05era Cain right? :)

2006-07-05 22:40:47
512.   Gen3Blue
506 exactly. I'm stupified!
2006-07-05 22:40:50
513.   JoeyP
Uh no.
2006-07-05 22:43:27
514.   Gagne55
505 My computer said 'error, can't find URL'. Oh, and my friend created a Myspace group today with the title calling Danys Baez a deragotory word refering to homosexuals.
2006-07-05 22:46:50
515.   Jon Weisman
509 - I don't understand the problem on the DP call. The out was recorded - the bobble was on the transfer. That play is called that way all the time.
2006-07-05 22:49:19
516.   JoeyP
The Giants-Dodgers have some interesting pitching matchups:


I hope Kent can play some this weekend or it may be a split.

2006-07-05 22:52:54
517.   StolenMonkey86
504 - 3 runs?

509 - I didn't catch that one.

514 - Your friend, not being an MLB employee, won't have to join Ozzie Guillen in sensitivity training.

2006-07-05 22:53:35
518.   LAT
Sele-Schmidt--Odalis better be ready.
2006-07-05 22:55:19
519.   JoeyP
The Dodgers should definitely win the Lowe-Lowry game. Lowry is sort of like Hendrickson this year. His peripherals are bad, but somehow he has a good ERA. I think this game is strongly Dodgers.

Hendrickson-Cain...Cain's been pretty good the last 1.5 months and Hendrickson is due a large regression, so I think the Giants win this one.

Billz-Morris..This is a toss up. Morris has been really good the last month, and Billz has been shaky, but I cant definitely pick either guy. Morris could just as easily get lit up.

Schmidt-Sele- Hard to pick against Schmidt.

This is a pretty important series I think going into the Break.

2006-07-05 23:28:20
520.   thinkingblue
I don't understand the problem on the DP call. The out was recorded - the bobble was on the transfer. That play is called that way all the time.

I wouldn't have a problem with it, except on the x-mo replay on TV, it showed Easley didn't even touch second base.

But that's ok, in baseball, players get away with that a lot.

2006-07-05 23:31:02
521.   thinkingblue
Sele-Schmidt--Odalis better be ready.

Still waiting for Sele to go down the still predicted "Tomko path."

2006-07-05 23:31:02
522.   thinkingblue
Sele-Schmidt--Odalis better be ready.

Still waiting for Sele to go down the still predicted "Tomko path."

2006-07-05 23:36:00
523.   Uncle Miltie

Jose Cruz is a walking testament to what happens when a member turns against the Avenues street gang.

He has 30 scars from the stab wounds he suffered in one attempt on his life — on his arms, torso and legs. In another attack, he was beaten so severely that he has a visible dent in his skull, according to court papers, "the size and shape of a pistol butt."

His street gang goes back five generations in Highland Park, which for Cruz is five miles and several lifetimes from the downtown courtroom where he is scheduled to testify as the star witness for the prosecution in the trial of a group of childhood friends.

2006-07-06 02:15:39
524.   JoeyP
That might be a different Jose Cruz than the one that plays for the Dodgers?

I was thinking that Jose Cruz Jr grew up in Houston. Considering who his dad was, I doubt he was in this gang.

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