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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Good Field, No Trade: Izturis Now Likely to Stay
2006-07-09 08:03
by Jon Weisman

The Dodgers are leaning toward keeping Cesar Izturis at third base rather than trade him to open up the position for Willy Aybar, Andy LaRoche or an outsider, according to Bill Plunkett of the Register.*

Maybe this is reverse posturing to drive Izturis' price up, but it's the most definitive endorsement of Izturis we've seen this season from Dodger general manager Ned Colletti:

"I would have to have a definite answer in return," he said, an indication the GM does not consider minor-leaguers Willy Aybar, Joel Guzman or LaRoche (who returned to Triple-A this past week, avoiding surgery for a slight labrum tear) everyday answers at the major-league level at this point.

"Cesar has done a great job at third base," Colletti said. "Is he going to be a prototypical hitter at third base? No. But I definitely like what I've seen from him and appreciate the professionalism he has shown by agreeing to make that (position) switch in order to make us a better ballclub."

Since Mueller went on the DL, Dodgers third baseman have hit .265 with 26 runs scored and 29 RBIs in 51 games. Through Saturday, Izturis was hitting .288 (19 for 66) in 18 games.

When asked if he could see Izturis being his everyday third baseman for the rest of the season, Little said he could for a variety of reasons.

"Even on nights when he doesn't get any hits, it's like he's driving in runs with his glove," Little said. "That means as much to us as a guy hitting .350."

I'll allow one argument for Izturis. In a year in which the Dodger pitching staff started out at a disadvantage and mostly moved backward, his defense may be a small way to improve the Dodgers' run-prevention ability.

But even with his batting average back up to .288, Izturis' power-depressed OPS is .672. That puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the lineup.

And now, for some comic relief - backup catcher Toby Hall, who had three hits Saturday, is already trying to get himself traded, according to Kevin Pearson of the Press-Enterprise. So much for the thrill of being part of a contender.

* * *

Today's Game

*By the way, that would make me wrong about having predicted Izturis' place in the lineup was temporary.

Comments (373)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-09 08:48:31
1.   the OZ
'"'s like he's driving in runs with his glove," Little said. "That means as much to us as a guy hitting .350."'

As long as Grady's making numbers up, why doesn't he say it's like hitting 45 home runs, or hitting .400?

Obviously, it's possible that Grady's just making a point and doesn't REALLY believe Izturis' defense is so good that it's like having Albert Pujols in the lineup. Still, the problem is that when you're assuming that a banjo hitter's D makes him super valuable is that if it's NOT like hitting .400 you're putting the team at a severe disadvantage, especially if you have other alternatives.

Also, why does Colletti need a "definite answer" in return? It's not like Cesar was a 'definite answer' when he came off the DL. Some would argue that he still ins't a definite answer today.

I'll defer to Jon's "pump up trade value" disclaimer.

2006-07-09 09:02:14
2.   Marty
Maybe Hall's nickname should be "Gabby".
2006-07-09 09:06:24
3.   Bob Timmermann
Dear Sir:
I represent the estate of Gabby Hartnett and we are planning to file an injunction against you to prevent you from calling any catcher as bad as Toby Hall "Gabby."

Further use of the name "Gabby" will put you in contempt of court.

2006-07-09 09:06:27
4.   Andrew Shimmin
Even on nights when [Hall] doesn't [play], it's like he's driving in runs with his [mind].

So, when Hall declines arbitration, the draft pick he'll be worth will make up for the one Colletti spends on next year's version of Brett Tomko. It's the circle of life, is what that is.

2006-07-09 09:12:15
5.   Marty
3 OK, as it happens I need to stay on the right side of the law. How about "Gatemouth"?
2006-07-09 09:15:07
6.   dzzrtRatt
What about "Crabby?" Or "Crappy?"
2006-07-09 09:19:40
7.   dzzrtRatt
I love the image of Izturis driving in runs with his glove. Maybe he'll start showing up at the plate with a glove instead of a bat.

I wish it was reverse posturing on Colletti's part, but doesn't he kind of blow it by saying Aybar, Guzman and LaRoche aren't ready? If he really wanted to up Izturis' trade value, he'd say "Aybar is a major league quality third baseman, but I've got no place to put him, because he can't dislodge Izturis."

2006-07-09 09:28:02
8.   dzzrtRatt
I want Eric Gagne's drugs! From

Dodgers trainer Stan Johnston reported no damage to the nerve and said Gagne was well after the surgery.

"I talked to Eric this afternoon," Johnston said. "He was awake and watching the game. He called to tell me he caught Olmedo Saenz's home run."

2006-07-09 09:43:39
9.   Bob Timmermann
The Phillies once believed that Rico Brogna would drive in 100 runs and save 100 runs with his glove.
2006-07-09 09:44:34
10.   Jon Weisman
7 - Yeah, I don't really believe it was posturing.
2006-07-09 09:45:35
11.   Jon Weisman
Bob's got a J.R. Richard vs. the Dodgers game callback going. Wow.
2006-07-09 09:50:46
12.   Bob Timmermann
It doesn't have a happy ending for Dodgers fans.
2006-07-09 09:50:52
13.   D4P
Can't believe I'm saying this, but if/when Kent returns to the daily lineup, I think I'd prefer Lucille II at 3B over Izturis...
2006-07-09 09:53:27
14.   jasbo
Didn't see LaRoche in the lineup at Vegas yesterday. Anybody know what's up with that? Injured again? It doesn't seem like time for a day off yet.
2006-07-09 09:58:08
15.   jet
Re 13. These 'nicknames' are getting a little precious. I feel so un-au-courant. Who's Lucille II? And for that matter, who's Lucille I? The only Lucille I know is B.B. King's guitar.
2006-07-09 09:58:37
16.   gpellamjr
13 I think they're interchangable (except for the salaries, of course). I just can't understand why Aybar is not up. I really don't know whether LaRoche is ready (I don't know anything about the minors) but I've seen Aybar and the kid can hit.
2006-07-09 10:00:33
17.   jet
Aybar can hit. He can't catch.
2006-07-09 10:04:33
18.   overkill94
15 It's a reference to Arrested Development where there were two Lucilles, so they call the Liza Minnelli one Lucille II. In this case, there are two Ramon Martinezes (Martinez's?) so the second one is also named Lucille II.
2006-07-09 10:06:03
19.   Steve
Bokonon, you trouble-maker. Come out with your hands up and no one will get hurt.
2006-07-09 10:09:18
20.   blue22
Izturis can stay so long as LII is eventually replaced by Aybar. The Dodgers have enough power problems in the OF without having to drag along the Banjo chorus of Izturiz/LII/Furcal.

Aybar can't play short, fine we get that, so any thought of Aybar being the super-utility is a pipe dream. But a combination of Izturis and Aybar would provide suitable depth at each of the 4 IF positions with Aybar providing pop and Izzy the glove man.

2006-07-09 10:11:14
21.   jet
18- Thank you. I should have known that. My little sister won an Emmy for casting the show. Anyway, now I feel qualified to comment on 13: no way I'd rather seen Ramon Martinez over Izzie anywhere. I know on this board 'intangibles' tend to get derided, but Cesar can 'play', as the players say.
2006-07-09 10:14:17
22.   jet
re 20 Correction: 'seen' is 'see'. I typed too quickly. Won't do it again. But I'd like to take the Isturiz thought even further. I'd rather see him (and his defense) at short over Furcal. Furcal would be the preferable offensive option at third, and certainly he can catch what's hit at him.
2006-07-09 10:23:45
23.   Marty
I think "dismissed" is a better way to put it rather than "derided". Mainly because the term intangibles is used for things that cannot be analyzed or judged, such as hustling. If you are substituting "intangibles" for "plays good defense" than that's a different story. We all think Izzy is a great fielder. But what he can't do in my opinion is hit, and I value offense over defense in every position but catcher. That's why I would prefer Aybar over Isturis at third, and Furcal over Isturis at short.

Maybe I'm all wet.

2006-07-09 10:24:01
24.   Andrew Shimmin
190 I honestly didn't see it coming; it was supposed to be about healing. And I don't know how to make it stop. I don't want to inflame the situation further, so I don't know if denying the charge is a good idea. Nate seems to have street cred over there, maybe he can vouch for me?
2006-07-09 10:24:28
25.   Andrew Shimmin
19, that should be.
2006-07-09 10:33:34
26.   gpellamjr
18 ick, you had it right the first time. Never use apostrophe+'s' to pluralize a noun. Never ever ever. Most people, I think, would say "Martinezes" or something like that. I would prefer "Ramons Martinez", like "brothers Menendez".
2006-07-09 10:37:23
27.   jet
23 -- You are definitely not 'all wet'. No one is -- it's July. However, (again 'intangibles') I remember a Dodger era when they won on good pitching, defense, and speed. Ok, perhaps we don't have the first; but Izturis's offense (to justify his defense) has improved each year. Also, and I don't have any stats with me to back this up, but I do tend to watch almost every game -- and that is Izzy's concentration level with runners in scoring position is much keener. I would suspect his average with runners on surpasses his overall. Perhaps someone out there actually has the facts.

Anyway, gotta jet. Vive la France!

2006-07-09 10:44:35
28.   coachbean
Prospect Question:

What is it going to take for Sergio Pedroza to get a promotion? He doesn't have a great average, but all the other numbers are there. Currently he is sporting a line of .294/.445/.584 with 20 HR. Considering the lack of true outfield prospect in the Dodger system (Ruggiano, Raglani have stalled, as have D. Young and Guzman isn't exactly tearing things up), he should be in hi-A or AA by now.

2006-07-09 10:56:37
29.   Steve
24 -- Most seem fairly reasonable over there. I don't see why it matters one way or the other, although at least one guy needs to be introduced to Kurt Vonnegut, apparently.
2006-07-09 10:57:51
30.   Bluebleeder87

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I love that guy's D.

2006-07-09 11:04:14
31.   alnyden
Why not trade Furcal instead of Izzy? They're hitting is about the same (this year at least) and Izturus is a far superior defensive shortstop. Plus, he's about 6 million dollars cheapear, which could provide much-needed funds for pitching. That'll give us the defense we need at short and free up third base for some power.
2006-07-09 11:09:06
32.   Blu2
Day by day Kent's contract extension is looking worse. This year we may get 75% of what we expected from Kent and Drew. Next year 50% may be the payoff. For $20 million. We need to start a movement right now to move Nomar to third. Explain to him that if he wants an extension for next year, he is going to need to move to 3rd now. So we can bring up Loney. Our power numbers will continue to suck, but if Ethier, Loney, and Nomar can average .320 between them (that would be nearly 600 hits over a full season), with 60 HRs and 200+ RBIs, that would be a good start. Add Furball, Martin, and Kemp, (I'll pencil them in for .280 average, 50 HRs, and 160+ RBIs) with what we can get from Kent and Drew and their caddies, it might just be enough. Well, I can dream, can't I?
2006-07-09 11:12:37
33.   Steve
21 -- Sir, a salute to your sister.
2006-07-09 11:15:05
34.   Blu2
31 There's not a person in the Dodger organization, or on this blog, that wouldn't trade Furball in a New York second if they could find anyone who would pay his $13,000,000 a year contract. We're stuck with Flanders' bad signing for the full three years, just as we are with Odalis Perez's contract, thanks to DePo. In all fairness, there was a lot more justification for the Perez signing at the time it was done. Furball's deal was idiocy from the very beginning.
2006-07-09 11:25:35
35.   LAT
32. Nomar is hitting .360. Leave him right where he is and give him anything he wants. If it aint broke. . .
2006-07-09 11:26:09
36.   Louis in SF
31 Has it right but sadly it won't happen. Many reasons we all know from the GM to the size of his contract.

However for all of the Izzy hatters and there seems to be many on this site, if what we need is another good starting pitcher, I don't think there is one out there where we could trade Izzy and get that pitcher..The trade to make would be to get Zitto now that Boras is his agent and it means curtains for his future as an Oakland A. In one sense now that it is clear that he will be leaving the A's after the season, his value may actually be down-doubt if he is traded he will stay with that team after the season is over.

2006-07-09 11:26:17
37.   confucius
I just want to point out that the Dodgers are scoring a decent amount of runs right now so Izzy at third isn't really that big of a deal. Remember they lost 11-7 yesterday not 3-1.
2006-07-09 11:31:42
38.   gpellamjr
37 You're right that they're scoring a ton of runs, but with the pitching struggling, it's not enough. They scored 7, but gave up 11. That's how it's been all year. They either need to score more or give up fewer. There is a problem.
2006-07-09 11:34:13
39.   alnyden
37 makes a great point.
2006-07-09 11:35:08
40.   confucius
38 I'm going to venture to say give up fewer, since they are leading the NL in runs scored.
2006-07-09 11:37:35
41.   alnyden
38, you can't expect any team to score more than 7 runs to win a game. 5 should be enough. Izzy or Furcal needs to be used in a trade to get more pitching, and neither will sacrifice much in terms of batting.
2006-07-09 11:39:21
42.   confucius
If they were going to trade Izturis I would rather have another arm than a third baseman. So I hope when he says 'definite answer in return' he just means to any of the dodgers problems and not lack of a powerful third baseman.
2006-07-09 11:44:24
43.   confucius
38 I guess to be practical a GM is going to have to evaluate which is available before the deadline. Are there impact pitchers or impact hitters available?

I just get frustrated watching them score so many runs and lose. But I guess you can't make a trade for pitchers if all you are going to get is a Mark Hendrickson.

2006-07-09 11:59:39
44.   jasbo
coachbean, I second that promotion of Sergio Pedroza, probably to Vero. Only problem I see is that last year he did the ball-o-fire thing at Ogden only to stumble after moving up to Colombus -- .207/.294 with a 4/1 K/BB ratio. This year he seems to have an eye (86K/67BB). Probably time (at age 22) to test him at a higher level. 73 ribs in 83 games says he's ready.
2006-07-09 12:04:12
45.   gpellamjr
43 That is exactly what I am thinking. The Dodgers need to improve their pitching, certainly. But, when there is a better option than Izzy at 3B in Aybar, then why not take advantage? I would say probably that Aybars offensive with his mediocre defense is better than Izzy's defense with his terrible hitting. Pitching should be Flanders' top priority, but if there's an opportunity (especially one that is in-house) to improve the offense, why not do it?
2006-07-09 12:08:01
46.   ToyCannon
Hate to have somebody talking for me but this poster liked the deal at the time and still feels that Furcal will be a decent signing. 3 months is not enough time to judge a 3 year deal, especially for a player whose whole history has shown him to be a slow starter.

I guess 1st impressions are all everyone remembers. Aybar posted a 939 in May but a 650 OPS in June in the same number of at bats but everyone is still convinced he's a "good" hitter even though the jury is still out considering how few at bats he's garnered in his ML career while Furcal whose had over 3600 at bats is a lousy player based on his terrible April and the solid May and July he's had have no meaning. The defense has been a disapointment and I can't quibble that Izzy is an upgrade there but I'd take Furcal over Izzy 10 times out of 10 times and I expect every GM in baseball would make the same decision.

2006-07-09 12:08:48
47.   confucius
45 I don't know if Aybar is going to make a significant difference especailly with his poor defense. If Laroche came up and hit HR's or if they made a trade for a third baseman that hit HR's it would make a difference.
2006-07-09 12:10:34
48.   ToyCannon
What do the 86 K's in 296 at bats say about his ability to deal with Low A pitching?
2006-07-09 12:13:04
49.   Claire Malone-Evans
It is doubtful you are going to the playoffs with this bad pitching staff. It makes perfect sense to keep developing the promising prospects in the minors. I am hoping they send Kemp and Billingsly back to Vegas. Long term planning actually works sometimes.Keep Isturis at Third !
2006-07-09 12:13:15
50.   confucius
46 You might take Furcal over Izzy but is he 30 million dollars better?

I think the criticism for Furcal stems directly from the expectations people have when you sign a 39 million dollar contract.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-09 12:14:28
51.   alnyden
45, why do you assume Aybar's hitting is so much better and Izzy's is "terrible"? When Aybar was sent down, he was hitting in the .270's and Izzy is currently hitting .288. I know Aybar started hot, but it's not unusual for a rookie to start big and then cool down, aka Matt Kemp. That certainly happened to Aybar and there's no reason to assume he'll come back hot.
2006-07-09 12:14:42
52.   Icaros
Is anyone else debating whether to watch Guzman and Hu in the Futures Game at 1:00 (ESPN2) instead of watching LA get one-hit by Jason Schmidt?
2006-07-09 12:18:40
53.   D4P
Eth-ee-ay batting cleanup today, preceded by 3 shortstops.
2006-07-09 12:22:13
54.   gpellamjr
51 It was a bad assumption on my part, becuase I didn't know the splits, which show that Aybar declined in the latter part of his stay in LA. As for their respective batting averages, I'm not sure, but isn't Aybar's OPS still higher than Izzy's?
2006-07-09 12:26:08
55.   D4P


One can only hope that the powers that be are not thinking to themselves ".288 > .274, and therefore Izturis is a better hitter than Aybar."

2006-07-09 12:27:30
56.   Icaros
Today's swiss cheese lineup will go well on the sandwich I'm making for lunch.
2006-07-09 12:28:07
57.   trainwreck
I can't say I am surprised in the least that they want Izturis to stay at third. Cesar is a guy, baseball men love because of his effort and defense.
2006-07-09 12:30:07
58.   Blu2
36 Aknowledged that Furball is a little better batter than Izzy, and a little worse in the field. My problem with him is strictly the size of that contract; Izzy is close enough that for the $9,000,000 a year difference, I'll take Izzy every time and put that money on a better pitcher or a real power hitter. It's not really fair, I dislike Furball because S--- for B---- Flanders gave him a ridiculous contract. I would have taken the money too so it's not his fault.
2006-07-09 12:33:35
59.   Blu2
53 Cruz should really be hitting second cleanup...
2006-07-09 12:44:30
60.   Bluebleeder87

I'll be going back & forth

2006-07-09 12:51:30
61.   Uncle Miltie
One of the worst lineups I've seen this year. I guess DJ needs the rest. Why not rest him yesterday against the left hander? I'm afraid that Drew is turning into a platoon player because he almost never sees left handed pitching now.
2006-07-09 12:54:49
62.   Bob Timmermann
The Nats are closing to being Odalised by the Padres.
2006-07-09 12:55:40
63.   Bob Timmermann
Jason Schmidt is not lefthanded.
2006-07-09 12:56:11
64.   regfairfield
I don't recall anyone deriding the Furcal contract saying he was a bad player, simply that we paid too much. That might be true, but we're overpaying him to avoid having to lock him up long term. How unhappy would you be if we had Furcal for five years instead of three?

I'm still confident that he'll bounce back. I've been making this point a lot lately but he was doing worse offensively at this time last year. When we signed Furcal, he was tied for third with Michael Young and Jhonny Peralta in WARP3 for shortstops. This year, he's third from last, ahead of only Ronny Cedeno and Angel Berroa. Players don't suddenly collapse like that for no reason. Furcal still has plenty of time to bounce back.

2006-07-09 12:57:05
65.   Blu2
There's probably some correlation between good GMs having good Managers and good teams (I call to your attention the Braves, yankees, and Cards. Dare I say the Padres?), and bad GMs having, well you get the drift. See Dodgers.
2006-07-09 12:59:19
66.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I believe Drew was rested against Schmidt because he's 3 for 27 against him in his career.
2006-07-09 13:00:28
67.   regfairfield
Why sit JD when he's about to have three days off?
2006-07-09 13:02:36
68.   Linkmeister
"Players don't suddenly collapse like that for no reason."

See "Blass, Steve."

2006-07-09 13:05:20
69.   Blu2
64 Three years is too long at that money. We still won't be able to trade him in his last year here. There are very few shortstops worth more than $5 mill in my book. Even if we had paid him 5 years at $8 mill, there would have been hope of trading him after 2 or 3 years. That was a publicity signing and there's no other explanation for it. "Look, Boss, I made a big deal!"
2006-07-09 13:05:42
70.   D4P
DJ always gets a day before a day off.
2006-07-09 13:07:15
71.   Uncle Miltie
63- which is why I'm wondering why he played yesterday against the lefty, but not today against the righty. If Grits is going to continue to rest him against lefties, why change his approach in the middle of the season? He's already turned him into a platoon player.

Drew's splits
VS RHP .291/.403/.493
VS LHP .282/.303/.423

Career numbers
VS RHP .293/.399/.531
VS LHP .269/.368/.447

Tony LaRussa used to pull the same crap. Only Bobby Cox gave him a shot at lefties.

2006-07-09 13:07:54
72.   thinkblue0

Aknowledged that Furball is a little better batter than Izzy, and a little worse in the field.

No, Furcal is a lot better than Izzy at the plate. At least he has an inkling of power and can swipe bags like crazy. Izturis can't hit for average, can't hit for power, and has no speed. In other words, he's an absolutely atrocious hitter...always has been, and always will be.

I honestly believe that we won't win this division with Izturis in the lineup every day at third. It's a recipe for disaster when you're penciling in a guy that's an automatic out every time up.

2006-07-09 13:16:28
73.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, the Dodgers got Randy Winn out. I'm always amazed when that happens.
2006-07-09 13:18:27
74.   trainwreck
Zidane just got red carded.
2006-07-09 13:19:05
75.   Bluebleeder87
Chen flied out to CF & Guzman struck out (futures game)
2006-07-09 13:19:32
76.   D4P
Wow, the Dodgers just got a single. I'm never amazed when that happens.
2006-07-09 13:20:39
77.   overkill94
52 There's two hits already.
2006-07-09 13:20:40
78.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, the Dodgers got Randy Winn out. I'm always amazed when that happens.
2006-07-09 13:21:03
79.   Bob Timmermann
Server problems caused the Grover Cleveland effect there.
2006-07-09 13:21:13
80.   Bluebleeder87
Good start for the Dodgers, now let's keep the lead!
2006-07-09 13:23:10
81.   overkill94
75 Chin-Feng Chen is back?
2006-07-09 13:26:16
82.   JoeyP
Izzy owns Schmidt.
Remember his leadoff homer last year?
2006-07-09 13:27:16
83.   D4P
Nomar's flyout counts against him in the box score, while Ethier's doesn't. I guess Nomar was selfishly trying to get a hit, while Ethier was clearly sacrificing himself for the team.

Or something.

2006-07-09 13:29:51
84.   Blu2
82 Don't be fooled just because his batting average is higher than Furball, I have it on good authority here that he can't hit a lick....
2006-07-09 13:30:07
85.   trainwreck
World Cup going to a shootout.
2006-07-09 13:32:38
86.   JoeyP
The Giants are hackers.
But I guess it has worked for them in the first couple games.
2006-07-09 13:33:06
87.   D4P
Bob - In exchange for a KitKat bar, would you be willing to add "Change the Sac Fly stat to either include all or no base-advancing flyouts" to your list of quixotic causes?
2006-07-09 13:33:28
88.   Bluebleeder87


2006-07-09 13:34:46
89.   gpellamjr
82 mmhm
2006-07-09 13:35:02
90.   Bob Timmermann
I think sac flies should count as ABs.
2006-07-09 13:36:12
91.   D4P
Should I take that as a "yes"? I'd prefer they all count as ABs, but at the very least there should be consistency. Either all should count, or none should count.
2006-07-09 13:36:24
92.   JoeyP
San Diego won, so the Dodgers are either going to be 2 games or 3 games out.
2006-07-09 13:36:51
93.   gpellamjr
Khalil Greene makes me very angry.
2006-07-09 13:38:40
94.   Bluebleeder87

yes I remember that game very well

2006-07-09 13:38:59
95.   Bluebleeder87
Cruz Jr. Being Cruz Jr.
2006-07-09 13:44:02
96.   Bob Timmermann
Suffering Bruin will be very angry when he stops in.
2006-07-09 13:44:35
97.   Blu2
Amazing how things change. Anyone here who wouldn't rather have Repko or R. Martinez in your lineup than Cruz Jr.? When he batted yesterday, I think it was the seventh or eighth inning, the Fox broadcasters spent the whole time talking about what a bad at-bat he had. According to them, the Giant pitcher never got a pitch anywhere close to homeplate and yet they got him out.
2006-07-09 13:49:00
98.   Gen3Blue
Just got here and have scanned but not read thoroughly.
In answer to some critism of keeping Izturis, if hitting is more important than D how come we have another day with both Kent and Drew not hitting? If both are hurt, thats OK. Or it could be a wrong decision also.
2006-07-09 13:50:35
99.   JoeyP
I'm pretty sure Jeff Kent is hurt.
Drew is 3-27 lifetime against Schmidt.
2006-07-09 13:50:40
100.   regfairfield
Any man with a .370 on base is okay in my book/
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-09 13:52:22
101.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder if Vinnie dose the pre-game interviews him self or if he has someone else do that?
2006-07-09 13:55:07
102.   Bluebleeder87
am I the only one that gets a kick out of watching Sele hit? I get the giggles watching him hit.
2006-07-09 13:57:06
103.   Gen3Blue
Nice at bat Sele! >10pitches
2006-07-09 13:57:47
104.   trainwreck
Awesome at bat for Sele.
2006-07-09 13:57:55
105.   gpellamjr
Shades of Alex Cora.
2006-07-09 13:57:57
106.   Bluebleeder87
I love this game!
2006-07-09 13:58:19
107.   JoeyP
Schmidt doesnt have his A game today.
2006-07-09 13:58:20
108.   Bob Timmermann
Jose Contreras winning streak lives for another day as Jermaine Dye hit a 2-out, game-tying home run against Papelbon in the 9th.
2006-07-09 13:59:11
109.   Bluebleeder87
warning track power by Furcal
2006-07-09 14:00:26
110.   underdog
Yeah I have to say, that was one of the best at bats I've seen a Dodger pitcher have in a long while.

I'm really liking Sele (hope this doesn't jinx him today) more and more, bless him, given the erratic mess that is the rest of the starting pitching staff minus Penny.

2006-07-09 14:00:45
111.   Bluebleeder87

you think he'll win 30?

2006-07-09 14:01:21
112.   Gen3Blue
Furc and Izzy--nice contact and about 2 pitches combined.
2006-07-09 14:03:24
113.   trainwreck
Awww Nomar chasing stuff in the dirt.
2006-07-09 14:04:11
114.   Uncle Miltie
Terrible at bats by Furcal and Izturis after Sele wore down Schmidt. Then Nomar swings at ball 4.
2006-07-09 14:06:06
115.   Icaros
I hate shortstops.
2006-07-09 14:08:39
116.   Bob Timmermann
I put up a Futures Game chat thread on the Griddle. It's already 7-1 USA in the 3rd.

Let's just say "We will join our programming already in progress."

2006-07-09 14:09:36
117.   Bluebleeder87
I love that pitch!
2006-07-09 14:10:49
118.   JoeyP
Durham has struck out twice on 6 pitches.
2006-07-09 14:11:10
119.   gpellamjr
117 You seem particularly optimistic today. It's refreshing. It would make me feel the same way if I hadn't eaten so much popcorn chicken today.
2006-07-09 14:13:28
120.   Bob Timmermann
2000 frames per second is going to be very, very, very, very, very, very detailed.
2006-07-09 14:15:09
121.   Bob Timmermann
It would be really cool if they could slow down the swings fast enough to show how much the bat and ball deform at the point of impact. It's pretty amazing when you see it.
2006-07-09 14:17:47
122.   Marty
Man, I can't believe how many bad plays Alou has made.
2006-07-09 14:18:24
123.   Blu2
112 Nomar is a terrible hitter. Which is a strange thing to say about a guy hitting .350 something... I mean he breaks all the common hitting rules, everything we tell young hitters not to do. Yet his reflexes are so good he can get away with it. There' very few people, even in the sports world, who could match him. Which tells me he would be good at any activity requiring fast reflexes and hand-eye co-ordination.
2006-07-09 14:18:49
124.   D4P
I've seen that many times in golf. I don't know how much the club "deforms," but the ball does significantly.
2006-07-09 14:19:15
125.   Gen3Blue
We could get Schmidt out on pitch count if we are smart and lucky.
2006-07-09 14:20:30
126.   Gen3Blue
123 Although I swore off the useless Boston B's two years ago--they do need a goalie.
2006-07-09 14:21:09
127.   Bluebleeder87
I can't stand Bonds*!!!!
2006-07-09 14:25:22
128.   Icaros

They showed a Randy Winn foul off in that 2000 FPS on the Giants broadcast today.

You could see the bat gigggle on impact. Amazing.

2006-07-09 14:27:15
129.   Bluebleeder87

they also showed it on PM/fox (cool stuff)

2006-07-09 14:28:40
130.   Bob Timmermann
Link to photo of bat being deformed by impact:

2006-07-09 14:29:13
131.   Linkmeister
123 You're saying don't play Nomar in handball?
2006-07-09 14:32:46
132.   Bluebleeder87

yeah he's a great athlete

2006-07-09 14:35:19
133.   Marty
Sele has got Martin jumping through hoops to get to his curve balls.
2006-07-09 14:36:05
134.   Bob Timmermann
Alou will be Sele's last hitter today.
2006-07-09 14:36:50
135.   trainwreck
Vizquel is a thorn in our side, good thing he is gone. Vizcaino is a thorn in the Giants' side.
2006-07-09 14:38:28
136.   Bob Timmermann
But Vizcaino falls under the law of "Ex-Dodgers Who Play Well For Dodger Opponents".

Finley, Steve
Green, Shawn
Herges, Matt
Beltre, Adrian

2006-07-09 14:39:27
137.   Bluebleeder87
we need some more runs
2006-07-09 14:40:06
138.   Uncle Miltie
136- you forgot arguably the best ex-Dodger, who now kills the them, Gary Sheffield.

I'd bring in Penny next inning.

2006-07-09 14:44:21
139.   Humma Kavula
I thought the relevant list was "Ex-Dodgers Who Play Mostly Poorly for Dodger Opponents, Except When They Play Against the Dodgers, in Which Case They Play Like All-Stars."
2006-07-09 14:45:43
140.   D4P
Related lists:

1. "Players Who Play Poorly for the Dodgers, Then Leave and Play Well Elsewhere"
2. "Players Who Play Well Elsewhere, Then Arrive and Play Poorly for the Dodgers"

2006-07-09 14:46:13
141.   Bob Timmermann

Yeah, that's what I meant, but I was getting lost in a forest of subordinate clauses.

2006-07-09 14:47:46
142.   Uncle Miltie
138- that made no sense
2006-07-09 14:49:50
143.   JoeyP
Grits is going to try to squeeze one more inning out of Sele.
2006-07-09 14:50:47
144.   overkill94
Just call Jermaine Dye mister clutch; after hitting the game-tying homer in the 9th he just doubled in another one in the 11th to get the White Sox within 1 with runners on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out.
2006-07-09 14:52:11
145.   JoeyP
Sele owns Ray Durham.
2006-07-09 14:53:08
146.   StolenMonkey86
Useless numbers for you

Izturis has gotten on base in every game he's played in a National League field except for Thursday's game. If you take out games in AL stadiums, he's hit .409 coming into today's game.

2006-07-09 14:54:15
147.   Icaros

Which gives me the opportunity to boast once again about the time I struck out an eighteen-year-old Jermaine Dye (he was batting lefthanded, but it still counts) in a Senior Babe Ruth game.

2006-07-09 14:55:08
148.   StolenMonkey86
The two Dodgers with RBI's after 5 innings: 3.5 and 5.5.
2006-07-09 14:56:37
149.   D4P
Unless I'm mistaken, the only NL stadium he has played in this season is Dodger Stadium.
2006-07-09 14:56:43
150.   Bluebleeder87
21 for Nomar
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-09 14:59:26
151.   Bluebleeder87
Good time for Kemp to break out of his HR slump
2006-07-09 15:00:13
152.   Bob Timmermann
Bunt Matt! Bunt! Bunt!

Oh please, bunt!

2006-07-09 15:00:32
153.   Vaudeville Villain
I don't care what anyone says, a good defensive player is not as important as a good offensive player, period.

Every time a ball is put in play, there is a 12.5% chance that the ball will be hit toward the player in question. A great majority of these balls would be plays that any league average player could make. A few run-saving plays every few games does not override the two, three, or even four at bats the player is likely to receive.

And there is no such thing as 'intangibles' in baseball. If they were truly intangible, you wouldn't be able to tell that a player had them.

2006-07-09 15:00:37
154.   StolenMonkey86
I'm chanting "3 Run Homer!" to my computer.
2006-07-09 15:01:52
155.   Bob Timmermann
And there is no such thing as 'intangibles' in baseball. If they were truly intangible, you wouldn't be able to tell that a player had them.

Curse you and your fancy words and knowledge of logic!

2006-07-09 15:02:12
156.   StolenMonkey86
Maybe Ethier should teach him that Oakland thing.
2006-07-09 15:02:18
157.   overkill94
Is it too late to change Kemp's nickname to Cerrano?
2006-07-09 15:02:31
158.   D4P
I guess your computer heard "3 pitch strikeout!"
2006-07-09 15:02:42
159.   Bluebleeder87
Matt kemp looked like a 21 year old going against an all-star (shades of Adrian Beltre)
2006-07-09 15:04:12
160.   alexx
Did anyone else see Nomar lip-syncing "We're gonna Celebrate"? Sweet.
2006-07-09 15:04:55
161.   StolenMonkey86
158 - Stupid Windows XP.

159 - The locations reminded me of Gagne striking out Ryan Howard, except Gagne threw high.

2006-07-09 15:05:22
162.   Bluebleeder87
Cruz Jr. is proving all of us wrong.
2006-07-09 15:05:46
163.   JoeyP
Someone please tap that singles' well.
Its still gushing.
2006-07-09 15:08:15
164.   gpellamjr
Who's the front-runner for NL ROY?
2006-07-09 15:08:21
165.   StolenMonkey86
Ethier steals third. Maybe he's faster than we thought.
2006-07-09 15:08:57
166.   JoeyP
164. Josh Johnson
2006-07-09 15:09:56
167.   Bob Timmermann
NL ROY candidates, in no order:
Uggla, Zimmerman, Martin, Ethier.

Zimmerman and Uggla will likely have the most playing time and higher counting stats.

2006-07-09 15:11:05
168.   StolenMonkey86
Penny in the 7th. Nice. Can we see Broxton in the 8th so we can skip Danys Baez?
2006-07-09 15:11:22
169.   gpellamjr
167 Ugh... counting stats. They are immune to small sample size.
2006-07-09 15:11:23
170.   JoeyP
Is Penny coming in for a 3 inning save?
I'm not sure if I like this move.
2006-07-09 15:11:27
171.   Icaros
2006-07-09 15:12:35
172.   Vaudeville Villain
Holy crap, is this a manager actually thinking outside the box? I'm beside myself.
2006-07-09 15:13:05
173.   trainwreck
Why is Penny in this game? It is the 7th inning. Put some faith in the Bull!
2006-07-09 15:13:28
174.   StolenMonkey86
170 - They wanted him to get an inning in so he's not cold for the all-star game.
2006-07-09 15:14:07
175.   Vaudeville Villain
I think this is a very reasonable, intelligent move, actually.

(He says before the inevitable blowup.)

2006-07-09 15:14:24
176.   StolenMonkey86
173 - Brad Penny now means the Bull in the 8th, which means Saito in the 9th, which means Baez sits.
2006-07-09 15:14:32
177.   alexx
I like the move. I'm 75% sure the bullpen would have given up the lead. With Penny i say 50/50.
2006-07-09 15:14:49
178.   JoeyP
Its not that outside of the box.
Garner brought Oswalt into the 10th inning of his game yesterday, and he subsequently lost it.

Penny is on 3 days rest, and pitching out of the bullpen. Thats why I dont really see the point in this.

2006-07-09 15:15:11
179.   Bluebleeder87
Kemp is the captain
2006-07-09 15:15:23
180.   Vaudeville Villain

Who would you rather have pitch?

2006-07-09 15:16:02
181.   StolenMonkey86
The San Francisco "Warning Track" Giants.
2006-07-09 15:16:15
182.   overkill94
Zimmerman has the edge so far with his 12 HR and 58 RBI to go along with stellar defense. I'd probably put Johnson 2nd although I doubt he'll keep up his current pace. Uggla has quite a case also with 13 HR and a .307 BA.
2006-07-09 15:16:44
183.   Linkmeister
Would this be the regular bullpen-throwing day for Penny anyway? If so, why not?
2006-07-09 15:17:50
184.   Bluebleeder87
Penny isn't a good reliever
2006-07-09 15:17:50
185.   JoeyP
180. Broxton..I'm just against risking injury by pitching a guy out of his normal pattern, especially the best pitcher the team has.
2006-07-09 15:18:30
186.   StolenMonkey86
Eric Gagne wasn't much as a starter, but great as a reliever.

Brad Penny is a great starter but a lousy reliever.

Is Danys Baez the answer to our rotation?

2006-07-09 15:18:37
187.   JoeyP
What was the point of that?
Now Penny is out.
2006-07-09 15:19:34
188.   Uncle Miltie
The left handed Baez comes in
2006-07-09 15:20:40
189.   Bob Timmermann
All managers try different things before the All-Star game. Javier Vazquez is pitching in Chicago in extra innings.

Henrdickson was warming up earlier.

Frank Robinson tried to get a six-out save from Chad Cordero today. Cordero only got five outs and he gave up five runs.

2006-07-09 15:22:03
190.   Vaudeville Villain
How can we say he's a bad reliever? How many times has Penny pitched out of the pen in his career? Sample Size?

Penny is the best pitcher on the team, we want to win this game, he's not going to pitch again until the All-Star game.

If he hurts himself in one inning of work, that's bad luck, but very, very, unlikely wouldn't you say?

2006-07-09 15:22:23
191.   Bob Timmermann
Please graph people's emotions on that hit by Vizcaino.
2006-07-09 15:22:49
192.   gpellamjr
Did Izzy just knock in a couple of runs with his glove?
2006-07-09 15:22:52
193.   Uncle Miltie
We are about to be Baezed!
2006-07-09 15:23:09
194.   Bluebleeder87
I love watching Izzy's glove
2006-07-09 15:23:18
195.   alexx
My Giants fan roommate is cheering as Baez runs to the mound.
2006-07-09 15:23:19
196.   Bob Timmermann
That was Penny's second relief appearance in his career.
2006-07-09 15:23:23
197.   overkill94
Lord have mercy, Baez in to pitch with the bases loaded? I hope no one's standing near a ledge of a tall building.
2006-07-09 15:23:44
198.   Icaros
I guess Izturis's defense is only like having a guy who hits .325 now.
2006-07-09 15:23:50
199.   Bluebleeder87

acording to Grady, yes.

2006-07-09 15:24:01
200.   JoeyP
Alou has stranded the bases loaded today once.
Maybe he'll do it again.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-09 15:24:27
201.   Uncle Miltie
194- I love watching Izzy's glove hit
2006-07-09 15:26:57
202.   overkill94
2006-07-09 15:27:29
203.   Icaros
I want this game to be over.
2006-07-09 15:27:30
204.   StolenMonkey86
Danys Baez got an out. Amazing.
2006-07-09 15:27:34
205.   JoeyP
hahah..what a great game for Moises.
2006-07-09 15:27:38
206.   Vishal
baez doesn't allow any inherited runners to score for once!!
2006-07-09 15:27:41
207.   Bluebleeder87
Baez proved us wrong peeps
2006-07-09 15:27:42
208.   Uncle Miltie
A miracle. Baez doesn't allow an inherited run to score!
2006-07-09 15:27:50
209.   gpellamjr
What is "Chivas"?
2006-07-09 15:28:32
210.   Vishal
[201] grady little does say he knocks runs in with it... maybe he uses it at the plate?
2006-07-09 15:28:35
211.   Vaudeville Villain

His glove hit a double but was thrown out stretching at second base.

2006-07-09 15:28:54
212.   Vishal
(because obviously holding a bat doesn't do him much good)
2006-07-09 15:29:02
213.   scareduck
Not that this has anything to do with baseball, but it seems obvious that the women in that Beck's disco ad do not actually eat anything besides carrots and air, let alone drink beer.
2006-07-09 15:29:40
214.   Bob Timmermann

Literally, it means "goats."

There are two MLS teams. There is the Galaxy and there is Chivas USA, which is an American version of the VERY popular Mexican team.

It's sort of like if there were a baseball team in the Mexican League called "Los Yanquis."

2006-07-09 15:30:22
215.   Bluebleeder87

it's my cousins favorite soccer team.

2006-07-09 15:34:21
216.   Bob Timmermann
In Mexico, Chivas is known for having a team that is all Mexican. When the owner came to the US and wanted to start a team, he tried to fill the roster with as many Mexican players as he could, but the MLS has limits on the number of foreign players.

It was supposed to be the start of a rivalry between the Galaxy and Chivas USA, except last year, which was Chivas's first year, Chivas was really bad. Like 1962 Mets bad.

2006-07-09 15:34:50
217.   Bluebleeder87

actualy the Yankees of the mexican soccer league are called AMERICA, Chivas have a trully trully loyal fan base.

2006-07-09 15:35:42
218.   StolenMonkey86
Baez vs. Bonds

A fastball to the head would make Baez my hero.

2006-07-09 15:36:01
219.   Bob Timmermann
True, I'm just going for an easier analogy.

I think at the next Dodger game I go to, I'm wearing my Team Croatia jersey.

2006-07-09 15:36:59
220.   StolenMonkey86
Nothing but strikes, wow. And Bonds didn't even make it to the warning track according to Gameday.
2006-07-09 15:40:07
221.   Bluebleeder87
Baez rocks today.
2006-07-09 15:40:20
222.   JoeyP
Pedro Feliz is a stereotype.
2006-07-09 15:40:33
223.   trainwreck
My roommate who was born in America, knows no Italian, never been to Italy, knows nothing about Italy, and always roots for America in everything is running around saying my country won.
2006-07-09 15:40:46
224.   StolenMonkey86
Wow, Baez sent them down 1-2-3.
2006-07-09 15:42:04
225.   Bob Timmermann
The Team Croatia jersey is like the Chivas jersey except it's a red and white checkerboard!
2006-07-09 15:42:28
226.   Uncle Miltie
Nomar needs a new song
2006-07-09 15:42:35
227.   Louis in SF
How about Baez moving to one of our vacent starting pitching spots?
2006-07-09 15:43:19
228.   Bluebleeder87

there a soccer team in mexico called CLUB AMERICA

2006-07-09 15:46:17
229.   JoeyP
Billingsley-Marquis will open the 2nd half of the season.

I though for sure it'd be Lowe.

2006-07-09 15:46:22
230.   Bob Timmermann
2006-07-09 15:47:06
231.   Bluebleeder87

The Chivas logo is alot better then the AMERICA logo.IMO.

2006-07-09 15:47:10
232.   JoeyP
Billz vs the Cardinals offense should be a good test for him.
2006-07-09 15:53:08
233.   Bluebleeder87
It's time for stop 'um Saito
2006-07-09 15:56:52
234.   Icaros
Saito was evil that inning.

Too bad LA couldn't have gotten him ten years ago.

2006-07-09 15:57:31
235.   scareduck
At this rate, Sele may get a 1-year deal with the Dodgers next year. And he actually might be usable in the NL.
2006-07-09 15:58:04
236.   Vishal
how about takashi "outta" saito?
2006-07-09 15:58:39
237.   StolenMonkey86
Yeah. That would have been sweet - Nomo at his peak to start, and Saito to close.
2006-07-09 15:59:03
238.   Bob Timmermann
It's always nice to get one of those unexpected wins. You need to remember games like this after the next bullpen meltdown.
2006-07-09 15:59:59
239.   Bluebleeder87

oh man LOL!!

2006-07-09 16:02:12
240.   Blu2
Chivas Regal then means Royal Goat???? Any unsavory implications there?
2006-07-09 16:02:15
241.   Icaros

Saito was a starter himself back then. Forget wasting him in relief.

2006-07-09 16:04:24
242.   Bluebleeder87

If you notice most if not all Mexican soccer players have nicknames. I think that's also true in most soccer leagues (not sure though)

2006-07-09 16:05:16
243.   Bluebleeder87

that's a drink no?

2006-07-09 16:06:23
244.   Blu2
243 Expensive Scotch.
2006-07-09 16:09:29
245.   Gen3Blue
For someone in the last few days:
Gameday is hanging more often for me and sometimes comes the black screen and hangs at a certain % loaded. I don't think its all your rig.
When your on base guys (Iz and Furc. are batting about .270 and The only guy in the League thats keeping your rook from leading bat. ave.(Ethier) is on your team (Garc.) somethings right!
Split series w/o our ace is OK.
2006-07-09 16:22:45
246.   Sam DC
Haven't read all the comments yet, so sorry if this was covered, but the useless Nationals blew a 3 run lead in the ninth today, completing their sweep by the Padres and leaving them 1-8 agains the Pads over the last two seasons.

Nice for the Dodgers to go into the AS break with a win. Should put everyone in the pledge drive mood.

Looks like the two sox don't want the break ever to come. Into the sixteenth in Chi!

2006-07-09 16:33:59
247.   Uncle Miltie
Another prospect certain to draw trade interest is Tigers Class A outfielder Cameron Maybin, the team's No. 1 pick in the 2005 draft. The Tigers are unlikely to trade him; Maybin, 19 years old, has a .888 on-base/slugging percentage despite 66 strikeouts in 191 at-bats.

"He could be a superstar," one scout says. "He could be Preston Wilson."
The scout worded that poorly. He should have said "He could be a superstar, or he could be Preston Wilson".

Jeff Kent for Cameron Maybin and Wilfredo Ledezma (even though I don't think he's that great of a prospect).

2006-07-09 16:34:48
248.   Gen3Blue
I know its only 3 games and too small a sample size. But look back at the last three games and you will find it hard to sympathize with some of our good players like Drew for the pressure they face carring banjos like Izturis and rookies like Ethier.
2006-07-09 16:38:30
249.   Gen3Blue
Sam-- sorry for those Nats, but I think Pads are playing way over their head. If you follow the minors one would think D's and Nats gulf coast teams only play each other. LOL
2006-07-09 16:41:39
250.   Bluebleeder87
Sam D.C. are they still playing?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-09 16:42:20
251.   Bob Timmermann
Still going on. Heading to the bottom of the 17th.
2006-07-09 16:45:26
252.   Bluebleeder87
what channel is it on?
2006-07-09 16:47:53
253.   Humma Kavula
If gameday is right, the ump in Chicago wants this game to end. Rudy Seanez isn't getting any of the borderline pitches.....
2006-07-09 16:52:48
254.   Humma Kavula
double play! they go to the 18th!

Let's play two!

2006-07-09 16:55:04
255.   Bob Timmermann
Rudy Seanez didn't throw any borderline pitches. Most of them were just plain bad.
2006-07-09 16:57:10
256.   Bob Timmermann
I guess Chicago and Boston picked the wrong week to quit taking amphetamines.
2006-07-09 16:58:48
257.   Blu2
248 I wrote a very sarcastic retort to your post but then thought (hoped) you were talking tongue-in-cheek. You really aren't criticizing Ethier, are you?
2006-07-09 17:10:32
258.   MartinBillingsley31
I know next year is next year and everything but do any of you think that having guzman, aybar, loney on the bench next year would be a good idea with repko, saenz, and a backup catcher, assuming our starters are these guys?
c martin
1b nomar
2b kent
ss furcal
3b laroche
lf ethier
cf kemp
rf drew

Get aybar ready to be the backup at 2b and ss.
Have loney as backup outfielder and 1b.
Have guzman as backup outfielder and 3b.
Have repko as backup outfielder.
Have saenz as strictly a pinch hitter.
And obviously the backup catcher as that.

And have grady play the hot hands at lf, cf, 3b, meaning guzman, loney, repko get significant playing time.
And if you think about it aybar would get significant playing time too giving kent and furcal days off.
So basically we won't have prospects just sitting on the bench.

Final thought, ned needs to sign some free agent pitchers to improve the pitching, and that means zito even tho bor-ass is representing him, any maybe another quality pitcher or even 2 even if its a reliever, because i think gagne is done as a dodger.

2006-07-09 17:14:24
259.   mankatododger
252 Dish Network channel 630 has the Sox/Sox still on
2006-07-09 17:19:43
260.   Bluebleeder87

your name is pretty funny. (is you speak spanish that is)

2006-07-09 17:20:16
261.   Bluebleeder87

I don't have dish network

2006-07-09 17:28:54
262.   Bluebleeder87
that Aguchi guy is a fan favorite up there in chicago I bet
2006-07-09 17:31:04
263.   thinkingblue
But I definitely like what I've seen from him and appreciate the professionalism he has shown by agreeing to make that (position) switch in order to make us a better ballclub."

Ok, since when does Izturis make us a better ballclub? And since when does his glove hit?

2006-07-09 17:32:20
264.   thinkingblue
So when will people finally start having faith in Sele? I'm still waiting for him to go down the Brett Tomko path.
2006-07-09 17:34:35
265.   trainwreck
I have more faith in Sele than Tomko and I have for awhile.
2006-07-09 17:37:25
266.   Bluebleeder87
Sele over Tomko here also, although I wish Tomko a better 2nd half
2006-07-09 17:48:54
267.   CanuckDodger
258 -- No, Loney should not be a bench player next year. Garciaparra should be offered another one-year contract, which he WON'T accept, so offer arbitration, and collect the two draft picks, making it easier to stomach the loss of our own first rounder when we sign top free agent like Zito or Schmidt.

It is absolutely imperative that a particular segment of our 1B history not be allowed to repeat itself. When we had Paul Konerko in the minors, he was considered blocked by a very popular (in L.A.) veteran, Eric Karros. In his first full year with the White Sox, Konerko had a very strong season, but you know what? Eric Karros had a even better season that year. It was the very best season of Karros' career, in fact. Nobody missed Konerko that year. But what happened the NEXT year? Karros was terrible, would never have even a passably acceptable season again, and we were stuck with an albatross of a contract. Meanwhile, the young, inexpensive Konerko continued to build a fine MLB career.

If Garciaparra manages to stay healthy for all of 2007, would Loney be as good as him in 2007? Very likely, no. But we have to think long term, and Garciaparra is not going to sign again for the short term. In the long run, Loney has a brighter future than Nomar, simply because of the age difference. The team that signs Garciaparra after this year is going to be doing what the Yankees did with Johnny Damon: paying for good results in the season ahead at the expense of also buying part of the decline phase of Damon's career. The Yankees would not have done that if they had a center field prospect as good as Loney is as a first base prospect.

2006-07-09 17:59:06
268.   dsfan
How good will Loney be in the majors? That's the big question. He had long ways to go in Arpil, based on his swing path and hitting approach. It was imperative that he create better levage, shorten the swing -- adjustments that can take years. It's encouraging that he appears to be improving his power He's a young 22, seems hungry, seems to be developing some power. Still, were he to spend a chunk of the 2007 season in Triple-A, it wouldn't be devastating to his career development.
2006-07-09 17:59:56
269.   Sam DC
21 Wow -- two days ago I was musing that I hadn't know they even game Emmy's for casting; today I'm two degrees away from someone who won one.
2006-07-09 18:02:07
270.   MartinBillingsley31

What about the rest of what i said in 258?
And only changing loney to starting 1b, and signing a cheap veteran backup bench player.

Also with the pitching, i think gagne is done as a dodger.



Ned should try to trade away tomko or hendrickson or both.
I would say trade perez but nobody will take him.
Fill the final 2 spots in the pen with anyone we are stuck with (tomko/hendrickson) or pick up a couple cheap guys.
Or if we can get another good starting pitcher that is worth it, put perez in the pen as the long reliever.

2006-07-09 18:07:36
271.   Blu2
I'm OK with signing Nomar next year but with the stipulation that he plays third or second if we need him there. Open the door for Loney.
2006-07-09 18:08:46
272.   dzzrtRatt
Somewhere out there is a contending team with a hole in its rotation that would actually consider a trade for Odalis Perez. As July 31 draws nearer, I'm sure Ned will get offers.

Possible suitors include the Rangers, Yankees, Mets and maybe even the A's. Some team with a manager and pitching coach who will say "I can fix that guy's problem."

2006-07-09 18:22:32
273.   Blu2
272 Isn't that the truth! Hope springs eternal. Just because a player gets old enough he has to manage or coach, doesn't mean he doesn't have any ego left. We always think we can do something that someone else (or several someones) failed at already. What was that Bob mentioned the other day, the Gambler's Fallacy? This is the Coach's Fallacy.
2006-07-09 18:33:44
274.   dsfan
Seems like the better Izzy does, the more some here take pains to tweak him. If some of that's prompted by nauseating media glorification of him, understandable, yet disappointing. All things considered, he's been a boon to this club at this time. Pretty remarkable for a guy who is rusty, surfing uncharted medical waters and playing a new spot. Says a lot about his hand-eye coordination and instincts to adapt the way he's done.
Colletti's comments on him are sensible. There appears no agenda there. Just acknowledgment of the guy's recent play.
For me, it's a no-brainer: You keep Izzy, unless someone gives you a legit No. 3 starting pitcher who's not old.
Izzy is of benefit short and longer term to the Dodgers, provided his comeback from TJ surgery, no small thing, continues apace.
Sure, contemplate a new 3B. Easy to demand one. Now try to get one cheaply.

If you can't upgrade at 3B in the next 4-6 weeks, Izzy's the best guy available for that time span and also allows for the chance that a contender's SS gets hurt.
Maybe LaRoche is worth a look in August, but he deserves more time to come back from the shoulder injury. Sad to say, Aybar has flat out cratered, as I suspected he was in the midst of doing when he got sent down.
Willy needs time to sort it out now that the big boys exposed some of his flaws.

As for 2007, Izzy as a utility man gives you nice coverage at the three infield spots; Kent will be ancient, Furcal is Furcal and 3B figures to be LaRoche, who will be just 22 on Opening Day.
I, for one, probably the only one here, love and appreciate Little's praise for Izzy's defense. What he did for a bound-to-implode Lowe on Saturday was huge (and, in turn, for the gooey bullpen, which had a strong day today.) He's done big things for other Dodgers pitchers as well. Again, my belief is that run-suppression talent, in today's game, tends to get undervalued, more so on a team with a pitching staff such as this one.

2006-07-09 19:17:01
275.   Bob Timmermann
Gotta love the ESPN Deportes call for Rolen's homer there. They were doing the call in English since Miller and Morgan lost their audio, but the Deportes audio was working and those guys were speaking in English. But the announcer used his Spanish call for the homer.

Very cool.

2006-07-09 19:18:58
276.   Uncle Miltie
For those of you who haven't heard Dan Shulman, he's doing the game on ESPN radio right now (AM 710 in LA)
2006-07-09 19:19:35
277.   Uncle Miltie
275- that was hilarious.
2006-07-09 19:25:53
278.   thinkingblue

You make very good points. However, Nomar is a different case than Karros, or Damon.

Karros had only 2 years in his career when he had an OPS over .900. Nomar's career OPS is over .900, and he looks like he's gonna do it again this year.

Also, Damon has never had an OPS in the majors over .900.

Nomar may be popular like Karros, but in no way was Karros as good as Nomar. I'd look for Nomar to be very, very good for at least 3 more years.

Also, Konerko was putting up HUGE years in the minors, with 30 and 37 home runs, and OPS' well over .900 both years in 1996-1997.

Meanwhile, Loney has is only just starting to put up a high OPS this year, and it's in Las Vegas.

Look, I wouldn't mind seeing Nomar go and Loney play 1B if the dodgers sign a Zito or Schmidt, but I don't think these are comparable situations.

2006-07-09 19:27:47
279.   Bob Timmermann
A la profunda! No! No! No! No! No!
Digale a esta pelota!

That was my translation which I'm sure has errors.

Just picture it louder and the Nos in a sing song way.

2006-07-09 19:28:15
280.   dsfan
Glad to see the LAT baseball writer suggest that Tomko could move to the bullpen later this season. Although Tomko's willingness to embrace a new role would be a factor, his pitching talent is more suited to the bullpen. Classic case of a two-pitch guy who stands to be more effective in shorter outings.
2006-07-09 19:31:56
281.   Bob Timmermann
I thought that I could use the closed captioning to get the spelling.

It comes through as this:

[spanish speaking]

2006-07-09 19:34:50
282.   thinkingblue
Raise your hand if you thought Drew would have only 9 home runs at the all star break.
2006-07-09 19:38:46
283.   thinkingblue
Also raise your hand if you thought JtD would have an OPS under .800 at Las Vegas at this point.
2006-07-09 19:39:30
284.   Bob Timmermann
Díganle que no a esa pelota!
2006-07-09 19:43:29
285.   thinkingblue
Is Morris' first name Avery or Brain? On, they list him as Avery in the minors, but maybe I'm mistaken with his name being Brian.
2006-07-09 19:46:37
286.   D4P
I vote for Brain.
2006-07-09 19:47:51
287.   Bob Timmermann
D4P, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
2006-07-09 19:52:44
288.   thinkingblue
2006-07-09 19:54:53
289.   D4P
Uh, I think so Bob, but this time, you wear the tutu.
2006-07-09 19:55:20
290.   Bob Timmermann
That was worth the wait, D4P.
2006-07-09 19:57:09
291.   das411
Woah, another Molina strikes!

HAHAHA and you hafta love the boos for Pujols, Houston fans have long memories. All the way back to last October.

2006-07-09 19:58:20
292.   D4P
Wait for it...
2006-07-09 20:07:03
293.   MartinBillingsley31
I think we will have enough money to pay for both zito and schmidt.

Dump the following salaries that total 33.16 million and replace those guys with prospects plus get both zito and schmidt.
mueller (from insurance)

Those players are making a combined 33.16 million this season, so if mccourt is willing to spend the same next season then 33.16 million pays for zito and schmidt and for raises and includes nomar.
And if there is a slight increase in payroll, so what, we will be the favorites for a world series with a great offense and 4 solid starting pitchers (zito schmidt penny lowe).



c martin
1b nomar
2b kent
ss furcal
3b laroche
lf ethier
cf kemp
rf drew

backup catcher

And as i said give the prospects on the bench significant playing time.

2006-07-09 20:10:32
294.   Sam DC
2006-07-09 20:11:26
295.   thinkingblue
That bullpen scares me, especially giving Kuo and Brozabon (who won't be back till around next all star break) good roles.
2006-07-09 20:14:00
296.   D4P
I've always been a Jack Handy man, myself.

If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason...

2006-07-09 20:17:19
297.   MartinBillingsley31
That bullpen scares me, especially giving Kuo and Brozabon (who won't be back till around next all star break)

Kuo will get it together and be fine.
I thought i read that brazoban will be ready by spring training.
Plus keep in mind that the starting rotation consists of 4 very solid starters (zito schmidt penny lowe) and by next year billingsley could break out.
With that rotation all you really need is 2 or 3 reliable relievers.
And who knows maybe we could pick up a reliable reliever.

2006-07-09 20:22:44
298.   CanuckDodger
278 -- The situation can be, and is, comparable without the players involved being exactly like each other. I explained how the players are similar: beloved veteran at 1B on the wrong side of 30 not showing signs yet that he is washed up (Karros, Nomar), versus up-and-coming 1B prospect who seems to be blocked (Konerko, Loney). Karros does not have to be as good as Nomar, or Loney to be exactly the same prospect that Konerko was, for the situations to be comparable (for the record, Konerko had more power, but did not have as much pure hitting ability as Loney, and was far inferior defensively, and Konerko played Triple A in Albuqueque, which inflates hitting stats more than Vegas). Nomar is actually a WORSE risk than Karros was at that time, because Nomar has a much worse injury history than Karros did. Because of that injury history, you have no basis on which to say Nomar will be good for another three years. Because of that injury history, you have no basis to say that Nomar won't be on the DL three WEEKS from now. It's wait-and-see with that guy. That's why he couldn't get better than a one-year deal this off-season and had to be willing to play a brand new position to even get that.
2006-07-09 20:26:39
299.   dsfan
Kuo twice required reconstructive elbow surgery and generally has been a skittish, inaccurate performer in the majors. Good kid with fast pitches, yes, but seems a reach to assume he'll be "fine."
2006-07-09 20:29:16
300.   Sam DC
Avet your eyes -- a walk to Hector Luna!
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-07-09 20:39:37
301.   Sam DC
Return your eyes -- Oswalt PHing!
2006-07-09 20:40:46
302.   Bob Timmermann
C'mon I wanna watch "Deadwood"!
2006-07-09 20:41:40
303.   Sam DC
And he doubles. And man I seriously need to go to sleep.
2006-07-09 20:42:37
304.   das411
2006-07-09 20:42:48
305.   Bob Timmermann
And it's Bob Davidson making the appeal call. That man lives to call people out on appeal.
2006-07-09 20:43:12
306.   Sam DC
You've got to be kidding me -- throw over to first and oswalt called out for missing the bag.

Replays hard to read.

2006-07-09 20:48:41
307.   das411
And up steps Albert...
2006-07-09 20:53:25
308.   bill cox
Bullpen next year,how about Greg Miller and Mark Alexander?
Give Toby his wish and make Edwin Bellorin the backup catcher.Good defense,decent hitter.
2006-07-09 20:55:32
309.   das411
Yeah Brad Lidge is definitely broken.
2006-07-09 21:03:34
310.   das411
All up to Chris Burke...but notice how the non-bunt was the key to that rally...
2006-07-09 21:03:49
311.   das411
:( bedtime!
2006-07-09 21:12:32
312.   StolenMonkey86
If only other teams' GM's were as stupid as Dodger GM's.

"Hey, the Mets have something of a hole at second base, and the Dodgers need a pitcher. Where's Delino Deshields . . ."

2006-07-09 21:15:51
313.   thinkingblue
Bullpen next year,how about Greg Miller and Mark Alexander?

Alexander maybe, but Miller's K/BB ratio is even worse than Kuo.

2006-07-09 21:17:40
314.   dzzrtRatt
I misplaced my slide rule, so I'm wondering if anyone can tell us which teams are farthest ahead of their Pythagorean expected win totals at the All Star break, and which teams are farthest behind?

Are these win expectations set at the beginning of the season, or do they adjust for injuries, trades, etc.?

Anyway, nobody asked me but it seems like a lot more teams are playing better than was expected, but only a few are playing worse. The true disappointments would seem to be Cleveland, Philadelphia and maybe Houston. Some might add Atlanta, the Angels and the Yankees, but the relative weaknesses of those teams seemed apparent even in spring. There appear to be only a few really strong teams: The Sox brothers, the Mets and Detroit. There seem to be a lot of teams like the Dodgers, playing a little better than people expected, but not distinguishing themselves from the pack.

2006-07-09 21:22:48
315.   thinkingblue
Kuo will get it together and be fine.
I thought i read that brazoban will be ready by spring training.
Plus keep in mind that the starting rotation consists of 4 very solid starters (zito schmidt penny lowe) and by next year billingsley could break out.
With that rotation all you really need is 2 or 3 reliable relievers.
And who knows maybe we could pick up a reliable reliever.

You don't think much of Kuo and Brozabon's problems do you? First of all, Kuo has never shown that he throws enough strikes beyond AA, and has had 2 TJ operations. He's one of those that I'd give a shot to the final spot in the pen in ST, not a guy who I'd say will "be fine."

Also, you read wrong, Brozabon had Tommy John this year, and it takes AT LEAST a year to recover. In fact, chances are he won't come back till the middle of next year. Also not a guy who you would count on.

And those 2-3 relievers can't go every night. That's why we need the Cararra's and Bimels of the world (as much as it scares me to say that.)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love that rotation, but we must have a better bullpen, not necessarily going out and spending money on Howry's and Eyre's, but we need a better pen than that.

2006-07-09 21:29:40
316.   Bob Timmermann
No one is too far off from their expected win-loss totals.

Boston is +4 as are the White Sox.

Milwaukee is +6

The Dodgers are -3. The Braves are -4.

2006-07-09 21:31:01
317.   thinkingblue

Karros had a smaller sample size, 1997 was only his 6th year, and Nomar had played 9 previous years. And his injuries were pretty much flukes, it's not like he doesn't keep in good shape.

Also, Konerko was a bigger prospect than Loney. And I'll say it again, I wouldn't mind seeing Loney in blue next year with signing a good pitcher, but would you really like to see Nomar go?

2006-07-09 21:50:22
318.   confucius
I think Nomar will stay. I also think if they were to decide to change Nomar's postion (not saying that they will) it would be during the Offseason. I think if they went into next year with Nomar at third and Loney at first it would give them an opportunity to see what Loney can do. I really do not want to see Nomar leave.
2006-07-09 21:54:53
319.   MartinBillingsley31
Don't get me wrong, I'd love that rotation, but we must have a better bullpen, not necessarily going out and spending money on Howry's and Eyre's, but we need a better pen than that.

The thing with the bullpen is it gets worked out by signing non-roster invitees and guys coming back from injuries and from prospects.

If we had a better starting rotation this season we could have used sele in the pen, and that's my point if the guys i listed don't work out you replace them with the sele's of the world, and then also ned might be able to find another saito.

The bullpen is the last thing i concern myself with, as long as there are 2-3 reliable relievers, then the other spots get worked out by what i explained above.

And who knows maybe perez gets it together, but there is no room for him in the rotation so he becomes a reliable reliever.

Hopefully ned can find another saito
A sele type coming back from injury
kuo/alexander/a prospect emerges such as miller

Or if mccourt/ned feels like spending money on a free agent reliever then fine, but the budget i laid out is maxed out.

But what i laid out for the offense plus the bench plus the starting rotation is an extremely strong team, and a little bit of a weak bullpen won't hurt, especially with four 7 innings starters if not more some times.

2006-07-09 22:01:13
320.   CanuckDodger
317 -- Sample size? If you're saying you like Garciaparra's career record much better than Karros's, that is like saying the sky is blue. But that is not relevent, since the issue really is about physical fragility. Some guys retire at Nomar's age, no matter how great they were before that, and Nomar has the injury record that raises the kind of alarms most guys his age don't have to worry about. And I wouldn't call Nomar's injuries "flukes," like Drew getting hit on the wrist with a pitch. The soft tissue injuries (pulled this, and strained that) like Nomar has had, when chronic (and Nomar has has them enough that they are chronic), are a very bad indicator for future durability.

Konerko was a very high ranked prospect, and we don't know how Loney will rate after this season, but like I said, Loney doesn't have to be a clone of Konerko for the historical parallel to be clear. Konerko had more long range value than Karros, Loney has more long range value than Nomar. Karros was expensive, Nomar would be expensive. Konerko was cheap, Loney would be cheap. And yes, I do want to see Nomar go, UNLESS he agrees to stay for a one-year deal, which he won't do. I do not want us committing to Nomar beyond a year -- no way, no how.

2006-07-09 22:09:39
321.   dzzrtRatt
Nomar is re-signed, count on it. To the marketing department, Nomar is the new "Game Over." I wouldn't be surprised if Colletti is ordered to get it done before the season's finished. Blocking James Loney is not quite the same thing as blocking Andy LaRoche or Matt Kemp. If Loney is forced to spend another year in AAA, it might do him some good. Or they could trade him. The Dodgers are learning a dangerous lesson from the Nomar experience: Anybody who can play the infield can play first base. If Nomar goes down, Kent can play there. If Kent goes down, Izzy. If Izzy goes down, J.D. Drew.

If Colletti went into Jamie McCourt's office and said "I think it's silly to commit money to Nomar, given he's injury prone and we've got Loney," she'd do a spit take on the word "Loney" and then she'd fire him.

2006-07-09 22:15:48
322.   MartinBillingsley31
I really believe you have to get what you can from free agency unless you have prospects that will produce instead.
And in the dodgers case, we have prospects to fill out the offensive part of the team next year, there is absolutely no reason to sign any position player free agents except maybe nomar and some people are unwilling to do that.
Now the pitching is different we don't have enough prospects to fill out the pitching part of the roster, so ned needs to grab what he can as far as pitching is concerned in free agency.

I do not believe in trading prospects for Quality pitching, because you have to give value to get value and then you have to sign some mediocre veteran position players like the loftons of the world to fill the holes you created by trading position prospects for pitching.
And i believe you have to get your starting pitching right because if your starting pitching isn't good enough then during the season you end up making a bad trade kinda like the hendrickson trade.

2006-07-09 22:22:02
323.   thinkingblue
and Nomar has has them enough that they are chronic),

Where does it say that Nomar has a chronic injury?

I do want to see Nomar go, UNLESS he agrees to stay for a one-year deal, which he won't do. I do not want us committing to Nomar beyond a year -- no way, no how.

Kinda harsh for a guy who has basically carried the bulk of our offense during the first half don't you think?

2006-07-09 22:22:15
324.   LA Native
I would like to see Nomar resigned, especially if he can play some third base in the Spring and maybe make the move over there permanently. I'd like to see Izzy, Hall, and maybe Guzman traded this year for a solid third baseman with some power, but I don't trust Ned to do another deal at this point after the two he has done with Tampa Bay this year.
2006-07-09 22:23:57
325.   thinkingblue
Now the pitching is different we don't have enough prospects to fill out the pitching part of the roster, so ned needs to grab what he can as far as pitching is concerned in free agency.

Not yet anyway, but watch out for Elbert and Kershaw soon.

2006-07-09 22:24:54
326.   dzzrtRatt
322 Are these general principles for you, or is this based on an assessment of the Dodgers' situation this year specifically? Quite a few teams have profited from trading for pitchers over the years, and the record of adding pitching through free-agency is mixed, and mistakes there are expensive.
2006-07-09 22:29:59
327.   MartinBillingsley31
Not yet anyway, but watch out for Elbert and Kershaw soon.

They are far away.
Elbert in 2008 at the earliest if not 2009.
And kershaw we just dafted.

But yes i agree that they are probably the 2 best pitching prospects we have other than the ones that are currently on the team.

2006-07-09 22:30:13
328.   thinkingblue
Cough, cough Mark Mulder cough cough...
2006-07-09 22:40:28
329.   MartinBillingsley31
Are these general principles for you, or is this based on an assessment of the Dodgers' situation this year specifically? Quite a few teams have profited from trading for pitchers over the years, and the record of adding pitching through free-agency is mixed, and mistakes there are expensive.

Its based on the dodgers current situation and the fact that in my opinion no position players on the up coming free agent market are worth signing, and so if the dodgers traded position prospects that are needed for next year for pitching then they would have to sign position players on the free agent market that i don't want ned to sign.
Plus i see 2 free agent starting pitchers that will be worth signing (zito and schmidt) so why go the trading route and then have to sign 2 or 3 loftons of the world to fill the position holes you created by trading position prospects for pitching.

Now i wouldn't mind if ned traded guys like young, hu, abreu, ragliani, diaz or any other prospect that i do not see in the dodgers future or any veterans like cruz, lofton, ledee, izturis, hendrickson, tomko, baez ect. that i don't see in the dodgers future, but to get a quality starting pitcher you have to give quality, and the names in this paragraph are not very quality.

2006-07-09 22:48:28
330.   MartinBillingsley31
To add to post 329
I'd like to see ned put together the roster i laid out in post 293 for 2007.
2006-07-09 22:50:28
331.   dzzrtRatt
329 Then, I would agree with you. We will overpay grossly for Schmidt or Zito because of the competition, but landing one of them (Zito seems like the better bet) would make a difference in how fast the Dodgers begin to take control of the NL West.

Plus, we must keep Zito away from the Padres, which is where I think he might be tempted to go.

2006-07-09 22:53:19
332.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't think it would be too bad if Loney got held up a year in AAA, he's only 22, maybe he'll develop some of the power he's going to, by 24. Doubling down on Nomar is riskier than I'd be inclined play it, especially given that the rest of the heart of the order is Kent and Drew. The Kent extension makes me think dzzrtRatt is probably right about Nomar coming back, though.

If Izzy is staying, why don't they put him at SS and Furcal at 3B? His glove would be inclined to knock in more runs from SS.

2006-07-09 22:59:12
333.   trainwreck
I don't think the Padres will spend upwards of 12 million a year for Zito.
2006-07-09 23:03:10
334.   LA Native
Maybe I am being a little too hopeful that Nomar can move positions again, but I think it would be better to sign Nomar and then let him play 3rd or 1st depending on how Loney and LaRoche each progress. We then have a solid young backup in one of those spots in case Nomar goes down. Otherwise I think we will probably have to sign a quality third baseman, which will take away from our Zito and bullpen pursuits in the free agent market. Even if LaRoche or Loney is ready I don't see Ned just saying have at from the get go next year, which will mean a Lofton-Mueller like solution at 1st and 3rd if we don't have Nomar.

Any one have any thoughts on when Ledee and Repko come back? If I had to guess, I would say Kemp is going to go down and Ledee or Cruz may get traded (probably for next to nothing). Kemp may be the real deal, but he is not looking good at all at the plate lately. Watching him swing at those breaking balls in the dirt is just painful.

2006-07-09 23:04:56
335.   trainwreck
I see no reason why Ned would not allow LaRoche to be our third baseman. He has called up our prospects and seen the results. I bet he has a lot of faith in Logan White.
2006-07-09 23:16:27
336.   confucius
334 I agree with everything this man says.

Somebody hire him!!

2006-07-09 23:24:19
337.   Chris H
It seems silly to argue over resigning Nomar at this point. There are too many things that could happen between now and then to know the likely outcome.
2006-07-09 23:26:50
338.   trainwreck
Boras likes long contracts. That was scares me about Zito hiring him. I like what Ned did by giving Furcal a lot of money, but a short deal. The length of deals is what really kills teams.
2006-07-09 23:28:39
339.   CanuckDodger
I have no problem letting Loney spend another year in Triple A, which is why I said OFFER Garciaparra a one-year deal. But we all know that one more year of Nomar is NOT a realistic option on the table, because Nomar won't accept another one-year deal. The choice is this: either Nomar leaves, or he gets a very expensive three-to-five-year guaranteed contract. Nomar is going to demand that kind of security for himself, and he'll argue that his stats this year give him the leverage to demand that.

And dzzzrtRatt's claim, in post 321, that the marketing department and Jamie McCourt are going to dictate anything about the Nomar situation is absurd. If anything, the fact that Colletti is aware that the marketing department would have been happy to give a lifetime contract to Gagne, and now look what happened to THAT "face of the franchise," is going to make Colletti think really hard about how stupid it would be to give a long-term deal to a fragile player. I have to add that anybody who thinks that the Dodgers' brass up to and including the McCourts aren't going to be thinking seriously about injury risks this off-season just hasn't been paying attention to the Dodgers the last two seasons. The McCourts have no doubt been pulling their hair out over the M*A*S*H unit this club has been for two consecutive seasons, so will they want the older, injury-prone, expensive Garciaparra when they can have a cheap youngster like Loney? I think they are prepared to do what Colletti thinks best, but really want a cheap, young team with big money spent only where we don't have in-house options, for the very obvious financial reasons.

2006-07-09 23:33:34
340.   JoeyP
293. I agree with you. The Dodgers should spend their funds on Zito/Schmidt, mainly bc there isnt anything else in free agency worth spending money on next year.

No more Lofton/Mueller/Tomko...13 mils on inconsequential veterans..those sorts of moves.

If you're gonna spend 13 mils, spend it on a player that will make a differnce. Not on riff-raff.

2006-07-09 23:39:43
341.   bobbygrich
My hunch is that they will keep Ledee on the rehab assignment for another week or so, something will have to be decided by the last week of July.

At this time, I don't think Ned will be in the market for a bat, as stated elsewhere, unless something falls in their lap or Izzy is needed as a piece for a pitcher, the focus will be on pitching.

I may be the lone voice on this board but I think if Baez is given consistent work (2-3 times a week) he will be better as this season progress.

Gio in spots should be okay, I looked at Broxton's game log and while he has those occasional blow ups, he also can put together streaks of consistent pitching.

Really, the only pitchers who really never got on a roll were Kuo, Carter and Hamulack in the pen and Seo (and before we start looking at his starts in Tampa Bay, I think that there is a difference pitching in front of a small crowd where no one knows you in comparison to pitching in front of the largest Korean American community in the U.S.), Odalis Perez and for the last month or so, Tomko.

Now that Gagne is out, unless Hendrickson and Billingsley fall completely on their face, Tomko is probably a good candidate to possibly help in the set up role although I don't know if he can adjust to that. He may need a couple of rehab appearances to see if how fast he can recover.

BTW, a little off topic but these double day games on weekends, I think affects attendance and saps something out of the players, who would prefer playing in the cooler evenings. I know this is TV thing, especially because Fox does not show a national game of the week.

Also, anytime I get offers for tickets on the weekend, going out in the sun does affect my decision.

2006-07-09 23:41:51
342.   JoeyP
Here's my 2008 Dodgers WS team/lineup.

C- Martin


Sign Zito/Schmidt both this off-season.
Then next year sign Andruw Jones/Adam Dunn.
If payroll needs to be cut, then just let Nomar go and go with LaRoche at 3rd.

2006-07-09 23:52:03
343.   trainwreck
Schmidt will probably be a shell of himself at the end of the contract he gets this off-season.
2006-07-10 00:01:55
344.   Andrew Shimmin
339- No one said the FO wouldn't be "thinking seriously" about injury risks. Nomar was signed for this year. So was Mueller (for this plus next). Kent was extended. Each of these moves are evidence that could indicate Flanders isn't as injury-risk averse as some might reasonably hope. It's not outlandish to suggest that, and it doesn't betray a failure to have paid attention.

Nomar may not want a one year deal, but who's going to take a five year plunge on him? He's still an injury risk to such an extent that he's playing 1B.

2006-07-10 00:05:21
345.   bobbygrich
342 I would not rule out perhaps getting a Schmidt (I don't think the Giants are in a position to offer a big contract until they know what Barry is doing)

Zito could be more of an issue because Boras is going to want 65/5 years. Now who are the competitiors for Barry Zito.
1. Yankees
2. D-Backs
3. Detroit (just a flyer, not real serious)

I don't the Padres based on how long Boras will want the contract to be, I think they still have revenue issues due to park revenue, with the Angels locking up Escobar, they have 5 guys pretty well set and they already have big money in Colon and Escobar, I suppose the Cardinals could enter the picture but I see Barry being a West Coast guy.

In the end, with Jason's injury history and age, but again with Ned's connection with him, he might have an edge.

The Dodgers are already promised an interesting off-season with Boras with Drew's player option and Gagne's probable buy-out, so they may as well talk about Zito while they are at it.

2006-07-10 00:13:06
346.   trainwreck
I think the Mets are going to be a player in the Zito sweepstakes.

I do not think there is much of a chance at all that JD opts out of his contract. He said that was there because he was unsure of living in LA, but his wife and him love the place. In addition, I doubt anyone would give him 11 million a year.

I wish we could just give Zito a short contract (3 years), but a lot of money.

Maybe we could find a trading partner in the off-season willing to move a starter.

2006-07-10 00:20:09
347.   MartinBillingsley31
A lot of people were saying that lowe would be crap towards the end of his contract and look how he turned out.
The fact of the matter is you better get free agent starting pitchers while you can or else you end up making bad trades and subtracting offense and you end up not benefiting.
And you don't sign free agent tomko types either.
I'd much rather take a chance on zito and schmidt than add more tomkos or subtract offense in a trade.
If zito and schmidt aren't worth it then nobody is worth it from free agency and the dodgers will never win a championship with a bunch of tomkos in the rotation with a couple prospects.
EVERYTHING revolves around pitching, especially starting pitching.

3 options:
1)either trade top prospects for pitching which leads to lofton types filling holes created by trading position prospects.
2)or sign a bunch of tomkos which doesn't do you any good, but you keep your position prospects.
3)or sign difference makers like zito and schmidt and keep your position prospects.

The 3rd option is what i advocate.

2006-07-10 00:55:53
348.   trainwreck
Schmidt is way older than Lowe and is a completely different pitcher. Lowe relies on a sinker, while Schmidt relies on a fastball and he has had injury problems in the past.

I agree we need pitching to win a championship, but our payroll is already over 100 million. I doubt McCourt is going to allow us to shell out huge money to two top of the rotation starters. I would rather go after Zito and then someone like Lilly. Zito/Penny/Lowe/Billingsley/Lilly is a good enough rotation for us to win.

Why would we have holes if we traded away some prospects? We have enough depth in our system to trade away players. We can trade players like Guzman, Abreu, and Hu and it will not effect our major league roster. I have no problem with signing stop gap players, as long as they are good. We do not have to sign bad filler players.

2006-07-10 00:59:26
349.   trainwreck
BTW, Lowe is only in the second year of his deal. So he is not near the end of it.

And no I do not believe he will break down at the end of it and be a shell himself. But hey, it could happen.

2006-07-10 01:05:33
350.   Andrew Shimmin
Schmidt is about four months older than Lowe.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-07-10 01:06:44
351.   trainwreck
Of course, we could also deal some veterans and get some prospects in return. Hopefully a young starter who could be ready next year.
2006-07-10 01:08:24
352.   trainwreck
My bad, I thought he was older than that.
2006-07-10 01:10:31
353.   MartinBillingsley31
Of course, we could also deal some veterans and get some prospects in return. Hopefully a young starter who could be ready next year.

Bingo that works, but what are the chance that could happen?

2006-07-10 01:13:46
354.   MartinBillingsley31
Why would we have holes if we traded away some prospects? We have enough depth in our system to trade away players. We can trade players like Guzman, Abreu, and Hu and it will not effect our major league roster.

Well i said top prospects.
If we could get a impact starting pitcher for those 3 guys, then i'm on board, but i highly doubt it.
Guzman is the only one of the 3 that i would like to keep, but hu and abreu i'd trade in a heartbeat.

2006-07-10 01:19:31
355.   trainwreck
Abreu and Hu are good prospects that get lost in the shuffle here because of how good our system is.

I have always been more into 2007 then this year. I would happily trade Kent to Cardinals, Angels, Mets or any other team who wants a second baseman.

2006-07-10 01:21:58
356.   MartinBillingsley31
but our payroll is already over 100 million. I doubt McCourt is going to allow us to shell out huge money to two top of the rotation starters.

But look at the contracts coming off the books.
gagne and cruz (13 m) pays for zito.
lofton, baez, ledee, mueller (13.5 m) (mueller from insurance) pays for schmidt.

Then trade tomko, izturis and hendrickson (8.8 m) to pay for raises to others.

2006-07-10 01:26:18
357.   trainwreck
So basically your hoping Omar Minaya will take those players off our hands haha.
2006-07-10 01:29:46
358.   trainwreck
Maybe the Orioles are dumb enough to want Tomko and Hendrickson. Let me dream of Brandon Erbe for Tomko, Izturis (to replace Tejada who is rumored to be dealt), and Hendrickson.
2006-07-10 01:57:58
359.   bobbygrich
John Sickels is going to put out his review of his top 20 Dodger prospects on Thursday, I would like to preempt that by doing are own DT review of Dodger prospects.

Here was his original rankings in February 2006

1. Chad Billingsley, RHP, Grade A-
2. Joel Guzman, SS-3B-OF, Grade A-
3. Andy LaRoche, 3B, Grade B+
4. Jonathan Broxton, RHP, B+
5. Russell Martin, C, B+
6. Scott Elbert, LHP, B+
7. Blake DeWitt, 3B, B+
8. Chin-Lung Hu, SS, B
9. Andre Ethier, OF, B
10. Justin Orenduff, RHP, B
11. Etanislao Abreu, 2B, B-
12. Delwyn Young, 2B, B-
13. Travis Denker, 2B, B-
14. Matt Kemp, OF, B-
15. Blake Johnson, RHP, B-
16. Hong Chi Kuo, LHP, B-
17. James Loney, 1B, C+
18. Justin Ruggiano, OF, C+
19. Anthony Raglani, OF, C+
20. Josh Wall, RHP, C+

It's possible that at the end of the year, Kenshaw, Morris, Mattingly and Steven Johnson could find themselves on this list as Ethier, Martin, Broxton, Billingsley and maybe Kemp will all have played too many games to qualify as "prospects."

My review is that Billingsley could probably use more time in AAA to work on his control and pitching efficiency but otherwise his promotion was maybe a month or two early.

Broxton, Martin, Ethier are probably here to stay, Kemp could use some AAA time to work on his pitch selection but maybe having the attention of Manny Mota and Eddie Murray will do the trick.

Great first halves (players still in minors):
1. LaRoche, after a poor April, has really come on to earn his promotion to AAA, some shoulder issues but started playing again and homered after his layoff.
2. Loney, some still point at his lack of home runs but .370-.380 with an OPS hovering near .900 and still being identified as the best fielding 1B in the minors, and he is still only 22.
3. Scott Elbert, record aside, he began to really dominate at Vero Beach, made his first start in AA, walks a little high but dominated (9 Ks, only 1 hit (HR) in 5 IP)

Good first halves:
1. Chin-Lung Hu, never a big time hitter, still holding his own in AA, 2006 Futures Game selection and Southern League All-Star.
2. Tony Abreu, joining his teammate as a Southern League All-Star, again not big numbers but still progressing.
3. Blake Johnson, not eye-popping but he has about a 4-1 KK/BB ratio but he will probably spend all of 2006 in Vero Beach so his development is definitely on the slow track.
Disappointing first halves in the minors.
1. Joel Guzman, Future Game selection aside and I will discount his time in LA because of all the prospects, his time was the most inconsistent, but anyway he has not done anything in AAA to merit his press clippings. Now, there are a lot of top prospects who have had disappointing first halves, Marte, Daric Barton, B.J. Upton, to name a few and Guzman is still on the younger side so this is not a disaster but he will have to pick it up to avoid the "Dodger Hype" tag.

2. Blake DeWitt, disappointing only because he has been inconsistent, striking out too much but has started to pick it up and he has the second half to recover.

3. Travis Denker, started in VB, was sent back to Columbus.

Incomplete due to injuries:
1. Justin Orenduff

Anyways thats my thoughts.

Jump in, we have some time before Chad laces them up against the Cards.

2006-07-10 02:00:12
360.   bobbygrich
356 BTW, I would not count on insurance too much, I don't think they insure every contract because the premiums are pretty high and also outside of Dreifort, we did not hear a lot about last year when Gagne was out.
2006-07-10 02:10:35
361.   bobbygrich
359 Just following up, Ethier and Martin have surpassed the number of at bats to be considered prospects anymore and Kemp needs only 9 more at bats to reach that level.

Broxton also has reached the innings pitched level to be considered a prospect and Chad is already halfway there.

Based on that, my current top ten would be:

1. LaRoche
2. Elbert
3. Loney
4. Guzman
5. Hu
6. Abreu
7. Aybar
8. Miller
9. Kuo
10. DeWitt

Like I said above, Steven Johnson, Kenshaw, Morris, and Mattingly may find themselves on this list by year's end.

2006-07-10 02:12:40
362.   bobbygrich
361 What I mean is that most publication use the MLB Rookie definition of 130 at bats or 50 innings pitched as the top limit to consider players as prospects.

That is why B.J.Upton does not appear on any lists and why King Felix did not appear on any lists coming into this season.

2006-07-10 06:58:11
363.   Sam DC
Unofficial All-Star Break Fundraiser

Well, with the Dodgers playoff-qualified at the break, this seems like as good a time as any.

Once or twice a season, I've made a small contribution to Jon and the site. I've got two basic reasons. First, I just really enjoy Jon's writing, the site he has built, and the community that has grown up around it, and so it seems appropriate to contribute what I can to keeping it all running. Given the junk I pay for in my life, throwing a bit of cash to Dodger Thoughts is a downright pleasure. Second, I feel a bit of a "put your money where your mouth is" pressure -- it's easy to write in comments that I value the site and Jon's work; it's something else altogther to actually pay a bit back for it, and I think Jon really appreciates the gesture of support (as well as the support itself!).

Anyhow, this time around, instead of just making a contribution myself, I thought I'd make an effort to leverage our numbers a little bit. So, rather than straight up send Jon a paypal, what I'd thought I'd do is match contributions made by others (within reason and within my means) and also take a little time to pester and harangue you lot. Here's the idea:

I will match the first $10 of contributions made to Dodger Thoughts this next week. Now, some of you can probably afford more and I'd encourage you to contribute more -- but I'll match the first $10. Ideally, we'd get 25 folks or so to contribute $10 each, I'd match, and Jon can take his lovely wife for an overnight at Shutters or something (or you know, pay his baseball prospectus and like subscriptions). Since I'm a mere mortal, I can't match more than 25, but that's not to say more folks shouldn't greenback up.

This note is too long already, and I'm not going to hector/cajole much more than this (some reminders will issue over the week, of course). There's alot of junk in the world you pay $10 for; please consider spending $10 (or more) on something you value and enjoy. Jon puts in a heck of a lot of time, not just writing the site, but managing the community, setting the tone, and keeping this a smart, fun place for folks to hang out, talk, and learn.

Important Final Point: This is a free website that Jon publishes and others participate in just because they want to and certainly not for the money. For many readers, of course, money is tight and making a contribution right now won't be an option. Others may feel that their discretionary funds are better spent on things other than a baseball blog. Totally reasonable. And others write their own blogs for heaven's sake and deserve fundraisers of their own. True true. By asking folks who can comfortably afford it to join me in making what is essentially a gesture towards our host, I certainly realize that many readers/members of the community will have good reasons for not doing so. Obviously, no worries. Jon would be pissed as all heck at me if this little gimmick (which I didn't ask him about and which he is probably quite ambivalent over) made anyone feel uncomfortable or unwelcome or anything else.

That said, the many of you who can make a very small donation, that will be doubled (in part) by me, really should do so.

Logistics: You can contribute via the PayPal button at right. I'll ask Jon to let me know how many donations he receives so I can match. Maybe he can shoot me an update now or then so I can support my hectoring with some cold hard facts. If you don't like PayPal and want to send me a check that I translate into paypal, shoot me an email at sam.brodsok AT comcast DOT net.

(I'll repost this when there's a new thread.)

2006-07-10 08:27:47
364.   Marty
Sam is showing veteran leadership as he attempts to light a fire under all the JD Drew's of this site.

Well, it's working for at least one injury-prone poster (or is that imposter?). I tend to contribute once or twice a year as well, and now seems a good time to re-up. I'll attempt to get up to Marty-speed and hit the Paypal button before the day is out.

2006-07-10 08:39:05
365.   DaveP
363 - I just happily made a donation. I would hope we can meet Sam's 25 limit match by the end of the day.
2006-07-10 08:42:31
366.   Gen3Blue
257 Blu2 If you see this, I had "left the room" but 248 had tongue firnly in cheek.
2006-07-10 08:42:41
367.   Steve
Brad Penny is the National League starting pitcher.
2006-07-10 08:45:59
368.   Bob Timmermann
Brad Penny pitching to Paul Lo Duca just like 2004.


I guess it isn't.

2006-07-10 08:51:04
369.   StolenMonkey86
367 - After watching Penny pitch in relief, Garner decided that he should stick to starting.
2006-07-10 09:00:58
370.   Jon Weisman
Um, wow. Thanks.

Sam had dropped hints about trying to get people to give money last week, and I debated whether I should let my pride get in the way of letting him go. Unfortunately, one of my principal issues offline is pride, or lack thereof.

I notice that very few baseball sites ask for donations, including those that kick my butt several days a week like 6-4-2, and so that only adds to my embarrassment.

I know, all too well, that many of you would not bother coming here if you had to pay for it, and I appreciate that any of you come at all. Really.

I guess I'm left with three thoughts:

1) If you do decide to contribute to the site, do it because you believe in what the site is trying to do and you want to see that grow. It is true that a donation could help in that regard. Certainly, you don't need to give me money out of guilt or sympathy that you've been getting something for nothing. That's what the Internet basically is.

2) One way to get something back out of your donation is to purchase "The Best of Dodger Thoughts." Just like a gift you would get from giving to a nonprofit like NPR, you'd be supporting the site while enjoying an additional benefit from yourself.

3) Sam, from the bottom of my heart, thanks for everything. And/but/however, though I appreciate you going all Warren Buffett on me, I feel that the matching gift gesture is probably too much, or as some would call it, insane.

2006-07-10 09:06:02
371.   Bob Timmermann
I think a better plan would be to interrupt game chats three weeks out of the year for 15 minute periods when Jon just asks for money and offers tote bags or DVDs of "Arrested Development" as inducements.
2006-07-10 09:08:07
372.   Jon Weisman
371 - What I need is to achieve such celebrity status that people will pay hard cash for my junk and refuse. Then everybody's happy, especially my wife, who would get some more cabinet space.
2006-07-10 20:38:04
373.   StolenMonkey86
Does anyone keep statistics on what players are featured in ESPN's nightly Web Gems? It's more a vote than a statistic, but it's consistent enough that it might not be something useful to quantify.

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