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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

After Nine Innings ...
2006-07-11 09:00
by Jon Weisman

The following chart illustrates in rudimentary fashion how many earned runs the Dodgers would tend to allow in a game depending on who starts the game for them. It takes the performances by their starting pitchers this season for however many innings they've averaged, and then finishes their starts with a bullpen that averages a 4.50 ERA. (Currently, the team bullpen ERA is 4.42.)

PitcherGSIPIP/GSERAERA with 4.50 Bullpen Finishing Game
Aaron Sele1162 2/35.702.643.29
Brad Penny181086.002.923.44
Derek Lowe19120 2/36.353.884.06
Mark Hendrickson2115.504.914.75
Brett Tomko1582 2/35.515.124.88
Jae Seo1049 2/34.975.264.92
Chad Billingsley527 1/35.475.274.97
Odalis Perez8384.758.536.63

The chart is a friendly reminder that the worse the starting pitcher is, the better the bullpen looks. Hooray!

Admittedly, the chart is skewed slightly because the longer a starter goes in a game, the more likely it is that the bullpen ERA will be lower. On the other hand, no Dodger starter is averaging more than 6 1/3 innings, which means that they all are vulnerable.

The knock on Dodger All-Star Brad Penny is that he doesn't go deep into games, but the fact is that he is averaging six innings a start and requiring the team to score only four runs to win. (Penny has not allowed an unearned run this season.) Penny may not be an ace in the traditional sense, but he's the next-best thing.

It does say something for Aaron Sele that he has surpassed Penny for a third of a season. Improbably, Sele has had an impact not unlike the one Wilson Alvarez had when he first became a Dodger.

Derek Lowe would have looked much better on this chart before his recent slump: 18 runs in 15 innings. Lowe has essentially had the July that I thought Sele would have, allowing nine runs in 9 2/3 innings.

Skipping down toward the bottom of the chart, you find that there isn't much of a difference between most of the pitchers, who are requiring the Dodgers to score at least five runs a game to win.

The solution for Odalis Perez, apparently, is to have Odalis Perez relieve him. Perez has a 2.25 ERA coming out of the bullpen. One man's fluke is another man's "what can we learn from this?"

As distasteful as most of the Dodger starting pitching has been, there is an important difference between throwing a 5.00 ERA guy out there and an 8.00 guy. A couple extra innings and a couple runs off the board give the team that much more of a chance to win. Not the greatest chance, but a relevant chance. It isn't a lost cause when these guys start.

In the end, any area the Dodgers can improve will make a difference. There's more room for improvement on the run prevention side than on offense, but if offense is where it's easier to make things happen, then let's gird our loins for some slugfests.

* * *

Hopefully all of those who have contributed to the Dodger Thoughts fundraiser have received e-mails from me, but I would just like to say another big thank you to all of you as I take your money and bid farewell to the site ...

Nah, I wouldn't do that. I'm sticking around. And thanks again.

Comments (296)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-11 09:11:09
1.   scareduck
"Improbably"? Maybe a quibble, but I don't think Sele's good first half was a question mark. It'll be his second half that decides how we look back at him.
2006-07-11 09:14:42
2.   Marty
You just wanted an excuse to use "gird our loins".
2006-07-11 09:17:09
3.   Jon Weisman
1 - His ERA in the first half last year was 4.70, with Seattle. In April of that year, it was 4.71. In 2004, his monthly ERAs for April-May-June were 5.23, 2.10, 7.20. Given his overall lousy profile, I'll stick with improbable.
2006-07-11 09:17:56
4.   Jon Weisman
2 - The beauty part is, I didn't need an excuse. It was the inescapable term.

And by the way, I looked up gird in the dictionary just to make sure I was using it correctly.

2006-07-11 09:20:38
5.   Sam DC
See, and I was wondering if it was loins that was used correctly.
2006-07-11 09:20:42
6.   Johnson
I assume that you used the bullpen to pad out the games to nine innings, or did you pad it out to somewhat less than that, given the possibility of losing on the road after the top of the ninth? At any rate, maybe now is a good time to point out that at the break, the only major league team to yet have won an extra-inning game is...the Dodgers (0-3).
2006-07-11 09:22:57
7.   Sam DC
I noted in the last thread that Syd Barrett, found of Pink Floyd, died this week. He died living a somewhat anonymous life in Cambridge, England.

The Scarecrow (Barrett)

The black and green scarecrow as everyone knows
Stood with a bird on his hat and straw everywhere.
He didn't care.
He stood in a field where barley grows.
His head did no thinking
His arms didn't move except then the wind cut up
Rough and mice ran around on the ground
He stood in a field where barley grows.
The black and green scarecrow is sadder than me
But now he's resigned to his fate
'Cause life's not unkind - he doesn't mind.
He stood in a field where barley grows.

2006-07-11 09:25:18
8.   Jon Weisman
6 - Note the use of "rudimentary" in the first line. I didn't think it was necessary to fine-tune the chart to such a degree - it wouldn't have made much of a difference, would have complicated the calculations, and seemed beside the point.
2006-07-11 09:27:50
9.   D4P
"Rudimentary, my dear Johnson..."
2006-07-11 09:28:56
10.   Mr Customer
2 - We will not be having any slug-fests anywhere near my loins, girded or otherwise.
2006-07-11 09:35:05
11.   scareduck
3 - Yeah, but ... NL West... well, whatever. I don't think it was outside the range of possibilities, but it sure was unexpected, anyway.

2, etc. - isn't loin-girding what catchers wear?

2006-07-11 09:36:45
12.   Jeromy
Just being intuitive here, but don't most major league teams need to score 4 runs to win at a decent clip? The awful teams need to score 5 or 6 runs on average, and the really stellar teams only need to score 3. I'm always fascinated by run creation and run prevention stats, but after speaking with my wise 97 year old great-grandmother (and longtime Braves fan) this week, I realize that many fans would just keep it simple. She would say you score at least 4, you are very likely going to win. You score less than 4, it is going to be much more difficult.
2006-07-11 09:38:43
13.   Sam DC
And just to continue my having-nothing-to-do-with-Jon's-thoughtful-post ramblings, the Nationals have now described what is involved in the "Grand Reopening" of RFK set for July 21. Lots of modest changes, and then this: "staging races between innings around the perimeter of the field by costume characters resembling former U.S. presidents".

Go Woodrow! Boo Zak Taylor!

2006-07-11 09:40:28
14.   regfairfield
12 A decent idea, but I'd move the number up to five. Only two teams allow less than four earned runs on average, and only three teams allow more than five.
2006-07-11 09:40:38
15.   Jon Weisman
11 - Nothing's really outside the range of possibilities. But show me one person who thought Sele would throw 60 innings of 3.00 ball. And then, show me another.
2006-07-11 09:42:20
16.   Jeromy
13-Funny! It makes you wonder what will happen when the Brewers come to town. Oh no, Truman is trying to take a bite out of the brat rounding 2nd!
2006-07-11 09:43:11
17.   Bob Timmermann
Your wise 97 year old Great-Grandmother is still not old enough to remember the Deadball Era when scoring 3-4 runs a game was enough to win. Unless she went to a bunch of games as a little girl. By the time she started paying attention to baseball, Babe Ruth was king and run totals went way up.

I wonder what the winning percentage was last year for teams scoring 4 runs in a game. I assume it's under .500. I don't know if this is just to make the math easier, but five runs seems to be the figure used to "win" a game on paper.

And is she an ATLANTA Braves fan or a BOSTON Braves fan from way back?

2006-07-11 09:43:21
18.   D4P
But show me one person who thought Sele would throw 60 innings of 3.00 ball. And then, show me another.

I think they're both in Missouri...

2006-07-11 09:44:30
19.   Bob Timmermann

And the results of the race:
1. Grover Cleveland
2. Benjamin Harrison
3. Grover Cleveland

2006-07-11 09:45:10
20.   Sam DC
16 Looking more closely, seems like they don't plan to have characters of the US presidents; just characters that resemble them.

Go monocle guy! Uh oh, here come's a tall one with a big hat . . .

2006-07-11 09:45:16
21.   Jon Weisman
12/14 - Team records when you score four runs:

Five runs:

Six runs:

Right now, you need six to be safe. Everything's pretty much up for grabs at four and five. Dodgers are 3-8 when the score four runs.

2006-07-11 09:46:42
22.   Jon Weisman
19 - William Henry Harrison died on the first lap.
2006-07-11 09:48:22
23.   regfairfield
22 And there goes the other easy president joke.
2006-07-11 09:48:32
24.   Jeromy
17-you guys are right. 5 runs is a better number. Grandma Scranton was a general baseball fan for most of her life, admiring players from all different teams, I particularly enjoy her stories of Mantle and Williams. Then after her husband died, maybe 25 years ago now, she had been relegated to basic cable and TBS! So, she followed the Braves more exclusively.
2006-07-11 09:49:34
25.   Sam DC
Fundraiser Continues

Lurker Day

(reposted from Wishing Well thread)

Have been trying to push a small DT fundraiser, as Jon mentioned in the post up top. For lots of details, see the Wishing Well thread, and esp. comment 6. I'll have an update later -- bottom line, huge success so far.

I expect most folks who are able and who are interested in doing so have already taken the plunge. But I did want to make a special plea to to the many folks who regularly read the site but elect not to comment. We learned on Delurker Day(or was it Unlurker Day?), there's a bunch of you!

A few folks have offered that they enjoy reading but don't comment because they don't really feel they have much to add or contribute. Now, for one thing, that's hogwash; virtually every comment containing such sentiments has also included some engaging or thoughtful insight, story, or rant as well. And heck, I spend like one of out of every three comments bragging about my kids. For all his "SABR-this" and "Remember the Superbas" that, Bob posts pictures of his cat!

Anyhow, that said, I'll just toss out this thought: If you choose right now not to join the DT conversation, another way to support the site is by making a small (or, you know, if you want, big) contribution to the fundraising effort. (PayPal button at right.)

As always, of course many people will have many good reasons why this doesn't make sense for them. Totally understood (and as his comments in yesterday's thread make clear, by Jon more than anyone).


2006-07-11 09:52:46
26.   Bob Timmermann
Per Sam's request:
2006-07-11 09:55:29
27.   Xeifrank
At the moment Brad Penny ranks 10th in the MLB in DIPs for qualifying starting pitchers.
1. F.Liriano (2.46)
2. J.Bonderman (2.78)
3. J.Santana (3.05)
4. B.Webb (3.10)
5. C.Capuano (3.12)
6. J.Peavy (3.22)
7. A.Harang (3.31)
8. CC.Sabathia (3.43)
9. S.Kazmir (3.45)
10. B.Penny (3.47)
others of note.
12. J.Schmidt (3.56)
26. J.Jennings (4.02)
33. A.Cook (4.11)
36. C.Park (4.16)
38. M.Morris (4.19)
40. C.Young (4.25)
42. D.Lowe (4.26)
59. K.Rogers (4.56)
2006-07-11 09:56:19
28.   bluetahoe
It's the break. Of course things could be better. We're 46-42. 4TH BEST record in the NL and good enough for the playoffs if the season ended today.

Ned found himself a bounty of nuggets that's contributed to us being amongst the top quarter of teams in the NL. It's good to see Jonnie shine his light on possibly our shiniest nugget, Aaron Sele.

Of the 30 teams in baseball I would have to give Midas the most credit for finding the most undiscovered treasures......

1) Sele
2) Joey Beimel
3) Saito
4) Ramon Martinez
5) Andre Ethier (a 4th OF? LOL....)
) Gio Carrara (to a lesser extent so far)

If you think logically, where would we be without these guys? I honestly believe, despite signing Nomar, we would be toiling in last place with a record 38-50.

2006-07-11 09:59:02
29.   D4P
How is the Mighty Casey these days? When Sam said "Bob posts photos of his cat," I thought to myself, "Bob used to post photos of his cat."
2006-07-11 10:05:31
30.   Vishal
[28] he also happens to go treasure-hunting pretty often. so what happened to midas' touch with regards to seo, hamulack, mueller, furcal, hendrickson, tomko, lofton?
2006-07-11 10:05:52
31.   D4P
I don't think Midusa deserves credit for Sele. The guy was a non-roster invitee, who happened to pitch well in ST. It's not as if he was signed to a guaranteed free-agent contract before his audition. Every team invites crappy, over-the-hill "veterans" to ST. The fact that some happen to do well doesn't reflect "wisdom" on the part of the GM. It just reflects luck.

Beimel strikes out 2.73/9 innings, lowest on the team, and probably among the lowest in the majors. Seems like only a matter of time before he starts getting rocked.

Regarding Saito, keep in mind that Baez was acquired to be the closer, not Saito. It's not as if Ned went out on any kind of limb with Saito. He was just a bullpen filler, who has happened to pitch well.

Lucille II has far exceeded his career numbers. Does Midusa deserve credit for that? I don't know, but if you think so, explain why he had any reason to think Lucille would do much better than he has for the rest of his career. I chalk it up to luck.

2006-07-11 10:06:03
32.   dianagramr

reminds me of this ....

2006-07-11 10:07:59
33.   dianagramr

does anyone know the whereabouts of mascotclubber (tm) Randall Simon?

2006-07-11 10:09:19
34.   Bob Timmermann
In hot weather, my cat sleeps on his back with his stomach exposed and his legs pointing in the air not unlike a turtle flipped over.

I can tell you that from this position I have confirmed that he is a male cat.

(But he's fixed.)

2006-07-11 10:10:57
35.   regfairfield
Since my brain was unable to comprehend the idea that Sele is actually good, I went searching for his secret to success. The easy one, BABIP doesn't work, since his is a decent .287. From there, I went looking at Sele's perheprials, and determined that his success this year is coming from a slight drop in walk rate and a massive decrease in home runs.

From there, I went looking for things that can control home runs, and found the answer: Outfield fly ball/home run ratio. According to the Hardball Times, there is very little year to year correlation in this stat, so a low one, especially when you don't have a history of supressing this stat, can be attributed to luck. Sele's outfield fly to home run ratio would be the lowest in baseball if he qualified (5%). The lowest qualifier is Brad Penny at 5.7%

If Sele can keep his walk rate down, he'll be better than usual, but I would expect his home run rate to go up in the coming months.

2006-07-11 10:11:02
36.   Sam DC
34 Fixed, but not girded.
2006-07-11 10:11:16
37.   Jon Weisman
31 - I agree that Colletti probably got lucky with Sele and Saito, but that doesn't mean we have to deny him credit for them. In fact, in one sense it's useful to give him credit for them. Perhaps it will motivate him to acquire pitchers with dubious credentials at the appropriate cost.

Colletti, in a sense, made his own luck with Sele and Saito.

2006-07-11 10:12:19
38.   D4P
One of our cats (the skinny one) sleeps the same way in the hot weather. The other cat (the fat one) can't really sustain that position.
2006-07-11 10:19:44
39.   Jon Weisman
Programming note: Hot on the heels of yesterday's Home Run Derby gabfest, the Griddle will host today's All-Star Game chat this afternoon.
2006-07-11 10:19:48
40.   D4P
I guess the problem I have with giving Colletti credit for Sele is that Depo did essentially the same thing with Erickson: invite an over-the-hill veteran to ST, and sign them if they pitch well. Erickson pitched well in ST, but not in the regular season. Therefore, Depo was an "idiot" for signing him. Sele pitched well in ST, and again (thus far) in the regular season. Therefore, Ned is a "genius" for signing him.

But is that really fair? If the reason they were signed was that they pitched well in ST, why should the idiot/genious distinction hinge upon how well they pitch in the regular season? How can the GM really be held responsible for that?

2006-07-11 10:24:08
41.   Marty
From the previous thread, I've officially submitted Xei Frank's pitching a tent in Jessica Alba's backyard for nomination to the "things that sound dirty but aren't" list.

It will be up there with
"skiing down Mt. Baldy" and
"Shaking hands with Abraham Lincoln"

2006-07-11 10:24:26
42.   bobbygrich
21 I believe I stated the "6 run" scenario last week but I am glad it is being repeated again.

One other thing, the Dodgers have won 6 games when they have scored 3 runs.

I rememeber when Tim Kurkijan thought the 2003 Dodgers had one of the more remarkable years pitching against such a horrible year offensively. That team either scored 1 run or was shut out 40 times that year, leading to a 2-38 record in those games, they were better than .500 scoring 2 runs (think about that) and they were 11-13 when scoring 3, overall scoring 2 runs or more, they had a 83-37 record.

This year the Dodgers have scored 1 run or been shut out only 8 times, and have scored more than 2 runs, 73 out of 88 games, leading to a 45-28 record when scoring 3 or more but as Jon said, it gets a little shaky until that 6 run barrier is reached.

At their current pace, this year's version should surpass the 2003 Dodgers in total runs scored by the end of the month.

2006-07-11 10:24:52
43.   Jon Weisman
40 - Don't let the media's mistakes influence you. DePo was not an idiot for signing Erickson. The extent of the idiocy relates to how much Erickson pitched - and assign blame there how you will.

Ned was not a genius for signing Sele, either. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a positive thing.

The system needs to allow for more shades of gray than genius and idiot.

2006-07-11 10:25:04
44.   bluetahoe
he also happens to go treasure-hunting pretty often. so what happened to midas' touch with regards to seo, hamulack, mueller, furcal, hendrickson, tomko, lofton?

D4P. You have to understand, the aformetnioned players came in with no expectations. They're great success results in them being golden nuggets. Say Furcal was having a MVP season. He would not being considered finding buried treasure because there are expectations there. In regars to Raffy, we need him the 2nd half. I don't he's a flop as I beleive your implying.

Lofton has been GREAT IMO. But he's not buried treasures. He came to us with expectations. And while I'm on the subject. Imagine if we decided to keep Bradley. This would have meant no Lofton/Ethier. And with the oft injured Milty, our OF would have been Drew, Cruz, Cody Ross, and GOD ONLY KNOWS who else with an injured Repko. I don't know if Ned isn't GM if Kemp gets the call. But he has been struggling and is possibly on his way back down. Midas' greatest attribute this season is his construction of our outfield.

If Hammy would have panned out he would have been on the buried treasure list too.

Mueller got injured. It's part of the game. A healthy Mueller would be helping us out at 3rd tenfold this season.

I'm not giving up on Hendy after 2 starts.

Tomko has been as expected. He was brought in to be a 4/5. 4/5's are supposed to be .500 pitchers. That what he is. Before his injury he was on pace for an 11-11 season. Thats what you want. Thats why Midas went and got Tomko instead of going with Houlton. Tomko > Houlton.

2006-07-11 10:27:26
45.   the OZ
40 I look at that through the lens of portfolio theory. You need to snag an NRI or two, it seems, every year. They're often not very different from each other - old guys coming off of 5.00 ERAs or guys just recovering from injuries, etc. You invite a bunch to spring training and then pick one for your team. Some years they work well. Some years they don't. Over the course of, say, 5 seasons, any GM's NRI-type roster pickups are going to perform at about their recent yearly averages.

We've only got one year's worth of NRI signings to judge Ned by. I doubt he's any better or worse than any other GM in this regard, but any advantage or disadvantage he possesses can't be seen in only one year.

2006-07-11 10:27:33
46.   bluetahoe
D4P, the reason Midas is a genius reagrding Sele is simple. He had till May 1 to bring him up or lose him. When OP's mother had issues he could have went with Billz. He didn't. He made the right call with Sele. And the dividends keep splitting.
2006-07-11 10:28:19
47.   Jon Weisman
41 - Anything works that way if you want it to.

One thing my friends and I once did was to add "You do the math" to any two random sentences and create a completely false level of significance.

"Cats like milk. Izturis is slow on the basepaths. You do the math."

2006-07-11 10:28:46
48.   bobbygrich
40 One difference is that Sele spent a month in Vegas and did well before he was called up, Erickson started with the team and never got into any rhythm until he was finally let go during the second half.
2006-07-11 10:30:30
49.   Bob Timmermann
Meanwhile, there is another cat photo on the Griddle.

2006-07-11 10:33:10
50.   D4P
One thing we can all agree on: Midusa's genius and $100 plus million dollar payroll has produced a 46-42 record up to this point.

Is that a good record for a genius with a relatively large payroll? You do the math.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-11 10:37:41
51.   Bob Timmermann
My cat won't drink milk, so the math needs to be redone.
2006-07-11 10:39:39
52.   Jon Weisman
51 - Ce n'est pas un chat.
2006-07-11 10:40:22
53.   bluetahoe
You gots to admit DP4, that's good for 4th best out of 16 teams and we sure are fun to watch this season.
2006-07-11 10:40:46
54.   ToyCannon
Erickson hasn't had a rhythm in 10 years.
2006-07-11 10:45:28
55.   D4P
But shouldn't a Genius who turns everything he touches into gold and who has a large payroll have a better record than 46-42? Is Kevin Towers a Super Genius, given that his team has a better record and pays its players roughly $30 million less?
2006-07-11 10:50:33
56.   jasonungar05
You do the math sounds soooo Rick Monday to me.

Eckstein the reserve, Furcal at home, 13 million dollars, you do the math..yada yada yada

2006-07-11 10:52:00
57.   adraymond

I guess that means Jim Hendry ($94 mill/ 34-54)has down syndrome.

2006-07-11 10:54:18
58.   Jon Weisman
56 - That's because he's trying to make sense.
2006-07-11 10:55:48
59.   Jon Weisman
I will reiterate that many problems on this site would be solved if we could just use different words besides Midas and genius.

Is there no other level of compliment for Colletti that will suffice and save us hours of debate?

2006-07-11 10:55:58
60.   Marty
Monday's more like:

"The millions? Thirteen."

(sound of pitch hitting catcher's mitt)

"And you have to say to yourself, Eckstein a reserve when Furcal is at home, a ball and now a swinging strike to end the inning"

2006-07-11 10:58:49
61.   bluetahoe
D4P, you have to take into consideration the contracts he inherited in Gagne and OPerez. You're looking at 20 mils there, JUST THIS SEASON. Those were not his doings.
2006-07-11 10:59:36
62.   Jon Weisman
61 - And DePodesta inherited Dreifort, etc. And so it goes.
2006-07-11 11:03:10
63.   jasonungar05
I never tire of Rick Mondayisms.
2006-07-11 11:03:10
64.   bluetahoe
Basically, with parts Ned inherited, it took raising the payroll to get us near .500. Ned's treasures are the reason why we are exceeding expectations.

Is Furcal overpaid? Sure. But I'll take him over APerez or an untested Joel Guzman any day of the week. I'm not sure what FA's were out there. Royce Clayton. I'll pass. Furcal is a difference maker and that should be evident down the stretch drive.

2006-07-11 11:03:32
65.   bobbygrich
62 And Dan Evans inherited Brown, Green, Ashby, Karros, Dreifort, etc.

I still think people ought to look at Jon's columnette (thanks to Tony Kornheiser) about Ned and Paul and you find out that you can measure the difference with a micrometer.

2006-07-11 11:03:33
66.   Mr Customer
41 - "Lolligagging on the basepaths"
2006-07-11 11:04:21
67.   bluetahoe
Ned will need time to create a team in his image. It's unfair DePo was not given the chance. I'll admit that.
2006-07-11 11:07:04
68.   D4P
Ned will need time to create a team in his image

Yeah, it will take time to replace the Pennys and Lowes with the Tomkos and Seos.

2006-07-11 11:08:31
69.   Johnson
67 Ned will need time to create a team in his image.

"...and I'd like to conclude this team meeting with a call for volunteers to grow silly moustaches. What this team truly needs is more silly moustaches."

(Jeff Kent steps up)

2006-07-11 11:08:45
70.   ToyCannon
With a roster composed by two GM's the payroll debate is bogus. You can't blame Ned for the 11 million that was blown on Gagne and silly millions thrown at OP. At the same time you can't credit Ned for the nice deals for Penny and Lowe. Lets stay with analysis that can be quantified to some degree instead of broad strokes that serve no purpose.

Ned is no Midas and he isn't an idiot. He's a 1st year GM who has made several great moves, some sideway moves, and some bad moves. At the end of the day we are in 2nd place, within easy striking distance of 1st place and in 1st place for the coveted:) wild card. That is a successfull 1st half even if some of it was accomplished with the Sele/Saito mirror.

2006-07-11 11:09:41
71.   Humma Kavula
68 I'm not trying to bait you, but do you really think that's fair? Do you really think that Ned believed, before the start of this season, that Tomko or Seo would be as valuable as Penny or Lowe?
2006-07-11 11:14:25
72.   regfairfield
69 We never should have got rid of Jose Valentin.
2006-07-11 11:16:33
73.   D4P
If Ned inherited contracts such as "Gagne" and "OPerez," and if he can't be held responsible for those players because they're not his signings, did he not also inherit such contracts as "Penny" and "Lowe," and should he (by the same logic) not receive credit for their performances because they're not his signings?
2006-07-11 11:18:02
74.   bluetahoe
D4P, Penny's and Lowe's are pieces he wants to keep. I'm sure he could trade them in a heartbeat. But that's not wise and he won't do it.
2006-07-11 11:18:17
75.   Marty
Russell Martin had a silly mustache for about 4 innings a few days ago.
2006-07-11 11:18:22
76.   Penarol1916
I don't understand the point of trying to talk bluetahoe out of his Coletti fetish. So the guy likes the GM more than is reasonable, so what? It's not like discussing it with him is going anywhere.
2006-07-11 11:18:52
77.   Jon Weisman
73 - 71 was responding to your insinuation, which I assume was sarcastic, that Ned would actively try to replace Lowe-quality pitchers with low-quality pitchers.
2006-07-11 11:19:31
78.   Marty
The Coletti Fetish would be a good band name.
2006-07-11 11:20:17
79.   Jon Weisman
76 - You're right, there is no point to it.
2006-07-11 11:24:08
80.   the OZ
78 Totally unrelated to this conversation, but I had a dream recently in which I played guitar in a cover band called 'Anacot Steele and the Blue Horseshoes'.
2006-07-11 11:24:34
81.   Johnson
Russell Martin had a silly mustache for about 4 innings a few days ago.

Did he have a mid-game glass of milk? I missed this.

2006-07-11 11:24:45
82.   the OZ
80 It was an 80s cover band.
2006-07-11 11:25:50
83.   Mr Customer
67 - I'm not sure any GM ever gets to make a team in his own image (Branch Rickey being the exception that proves the rule).

Free agency being what it is, your decisions are often in someone esle's hands. The best GMs seem to be the ones who can get out of their own way.

I'll be the first to admit I approach baseball from a SABR point-of-view, but it's been a long time since the Dodgers had a GM that didn't approach the job as if he were trying to justify his own existance.

2006-07-11 11:26:44
84.   bhsportsguy
47 Jon, is that like adding the words "in bed" to any Chinese Fortune Cookie fortune?

The words "gonna go round in circles" seems to apply to non-game days on DT.

2006-07-11 11:27:49
85.   jasonungar05
The dodgers are in the playoffs as of today. I think there are a lot of positive things to be proud of.

It's imperative that Ned bring in some help in order for us to win this division (or wild card).

Blind faith aside, we really only have one legit batting threat (Nomar) and will have no one reach 20 homeruns as a dodger since 1972! Sure Kent, Drew and the rookies are doing ok, but not middle of the order solid. At least Drew/Kent haven't been for a month or so and if it lasts another month, without help, we could be in trouble. I have faith in both guys, but faith and results are different.

We have 2 legit starters who both make me nervous in calling them legit. We have Sele and we know historically his second half's are awful. I won't talk about the others as that is depressing.

We have a rookie closer. We have no reliable set up men.

So if we stand pat I think we finish behind San Diego and the Giants (maybe Colorado and AZ too but I doubt it). We have just as good of shot to go to the World Series as any team in the NL.I love prospects and do not advocate on getting rid of any of them, but the last time prospects won rings is when? Maybe the mid 90's Yankees? I will judge the GM on what he does now and going forward more so than anything before. Will he hide and be Dan Evans or is he willing to be bold and be Paul Depodesta. I am hoping for something in between.

2006-07-11 11:28:23
86.   Jon Weisman
84 - yeah, you could say that.
2006-07-11 11:29:57
87.   Bob Timmermann
Keep in mind that the Dodgers "rookie" closer is 36 years old.
2006-07-11 11:30:28
88.   dianagramr

Unfortunately, Billy Preston passed away just last month .... :-(

2006-07-11 11:32:14
89.   King of the Hobos
81 He started a game with a silly mustache, but by his second AB, he had shaved it off.
2006-07-11 11:32:17
90.   Bob Timmermann
Saito is the fifth oldest Dodger:

Carrara is 3 days older than Kent.

2006-07-11 11:32:41
91.   Marty
81 He shaved his beard and had a thin mustache his first time up (maybe in Minnesota?) then on his 2nd AB he was clean shaven. Steiner couldn't stop talking about it.
2006-07-11 11:35:30
92.   ssjames
89 Maybe we could make a run at Adam Morrison, if we really are concentrating on silly mustaches. He seems to be the current king thereof. Also Andrew Miller who was just drafted by the Tigers has one of the more hideous mustaches known to mankind.
2006-07-11 11:37:30
93.   Johnson
89,91 I hope he was DHing that day.

Do you suppose Grittle made him get rid of it? Did he take away Martin's two-tone Ricky Ricardo jacket as well?

2006-07-11 11:39:10
94.   the OZ
92 We already have a power forward, though, in Hendrickson. I'd rather try to trade for a young point guard first; like Jordan Farmar. His dad played minor league ball so he's got that going for him. Which is nice.
2006-07-11 11:39:50
95.   Johnson
92 I think Adam Morrison plucks his moustache. It's the only plausible explanation.
2006-07-11 11:40:28
96.   Jon Weisman
94 - Wow, giving up on Lofton at point guard just because he's old. Oh well.
2006-07-11 11:41:35
97.   Eric L
85 That '03 Marlins team was pretty stacked with prospects. The core of the team were guys that the Marlins drafted or acquired at a very young age.
2006-07-11 11:46:47
98.   the OZ
96 Lofton is old. Lute Olsen is still at U of A. You do the math.
2006-07-11 11:47:02
99.   Blu2
85 Not to start a debate but here is a short list of Dodgers that I wouldn't be surprised to see hit 20 homeruns this year:


Granted Kemp may well be sent down and Ethier would need to up his power ratio, but I consider it a real possibility.

2006-07-11 11:47:04
100.   Marty
Do you suppose Grittle made him get rid of it?

It was competing with Ned's silly stache.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-11 11:47:36
101.   the OZ
Also, Lofton's dad didn't play minor league ball, as far as I know. Genetics matter.
2006-07-11 11:50:25
102.   ssjames
101 Kenny was the starting point guard for Arizona in college, so he can play a little. Plus he will run up and down the court at Kenny speed.
2006-07-11 11:51:08
103.   the OZ
99 Is "Nomae" plural for "Nomar"? Because if we had two Nomae, they could combine for 20 HR.
2006-07-11 11:53:12
104.   thinkingblue
Lofton has been GREAT IMO.

A .735 OPS, and bad defense has been GREAT? Good at most.

2006-07-11 11:54:47
105.   the OZ
103 And 200 RBI.
2006-07-11 11:57:06
106.   thinkingblue
So what's the over/Under AB's until JD Drew (aka Mantle because his swing was compared to Mickey) next home run?

I'll set the line at 50. I'm going slightly under at 40 more at bats.

2006-07-11 11:59:31
107.   thinkingblue
If we had 2 Drew's, they'd combine for 18 home runs and 200 RBIs :(
2006-07-11 12:02:54
108.   D4P
There's a good chance Ned and Grittle sat down with Drew before the season started and told him that they don't care about "power," and that this team will be about "speed, athleticism, productive outs, rally-extension, professionalism, and character."
2006-07-11 12:06:13
109.   thinkblue0

your attack on Drew has just gotten to the point that it's laughable...basically since you have nothing to back it up.

2006-07-11 12:08:31
110.   Bob Timmermann
Is there any Dodger player on the 25-man roster that is universally NOT disliked by people who post here.

Russell Martin, perhaps?

2006-07-11 12:09:17
111.   dianagramr

In the DH era, here are the players with the fewest HRs while still knocking in at least 100 in a season

RBI >= 100

1 Tom Herr 1985 8 110
2 Paul Molitor 1996 9 113
3 Willie Montanez 1975 10 101
T4 Willie McGee 1987 11 105
T4 Keith Hernandez 1979 11 105
T4 Jeff Cirillo 2000 11 115
7 Thurman Munson 1975 12 102
T8 Edgar Renteria 2003 13 100
T8 Ted Simmons 1983 13 108
T8 Hubie Brooks 1985 13 100

2006-07-11 12:09:21
112.   thinkblue0

and maybe Nomar?

2006-07-11 12:10:08
113.   thinkblue0

he said drving in 100 runs isn't important.

2006-07-11 12:10:21
114.   jasonungar05
Good point Eric on Florida.

no problem on debate..

Drew -I would sure hope he can hit 11 in the second half

Kent- Ditto..he is my biggest hope for power.

Nomar-I would be suprised if he dosen't reach 20 too

Kemp-I think he will be sent to minors

Ethier-In a way, I hope he dosen't reach 20, he dosen't seem to be that kind of hitter.

2006-07-11 12:11:03
115.   JoeyP
Of all the many problems on this team, JD Drew isnt one of them.
2006-07-11 12:16:23
116.   Sam DC
Hey -- no grouches interfering with my pledge drive!
2006-07-11 12:18:37
117.   Eric L
114 I should probably also add the '02 Angels to the list of "prospect" teams in terms of home grown talent.

Guys like GA, Salmon, Glaus, Percival, K-rod, Erstad, Washburn, Lackey, and Molina made up a pretty good chunck of the team.

2006-07-11 12:20:06
118.   Bob Timmermann
I believe that there are a few people who think Nomar is still a hamstring pull away from having his season end.
2006-07-11 12:20:57
119.   skybluestoday
Re: 116

I like Drew, but doesn't he seem to be striking out an awful lot lately? I don't know how to access the numbers on this (my bad), but are these K totals consonant with his career figures?

2006-07-11 12:23:21
120.   Terry A
19 - Wise is the man who never wagers on Taft.
2006-07-11 12:24:39
121.   underdog
I hope people behave themselves during the Jamie McCourt chat on today.

As for
Maybe Martin and Saito? (As far as having no one who is reviled or harped upon in the comments here) And Nomar worries some, even if he doesn't have any "sworn enemies." Saenz, too, perhaps.

2006-07-11 12:24:55
122.   thinkingblue
he said drving in 100 runs isn't important.

You know, Garret Anderson drove in 96 in 2005 with a .743 OPS.

I'm not saying it's not important, but that anyone batting 4th can get 100 RBIs.

2006-07-11 12:26:13
123.   thinkingblue
Of all the many problems on this team, JD Drew isnt one of them.

His lack of power is a problem.

2006-07-11 12:27:10
124.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Carter drove in 102 runs in 1997 with an OPS of 683 and a league-adjusted OPS+ of 76.
2006-07-11 12:28:42
125.   thinkingblue
Drew's OPS is .50 points less than his career average right now, and yes, Drew is K'ing a lot, but he has done that a lot before.
2006-07-11 12:30:41
126.   King of the Hobos
119 For his career prior to this season, Drew struck out at a rate of .2171 times per AB. This season he is at .2109 Ks per AB, essentially no difference (-.0062), and actually a little less than his career. However, since June 10th (the Colorado series), he's at a rate of .2667 Ks per AB. Interpret that as you will, but it's a very small sample size (75 ABs).
2006-07-11 12:30:41
127.   thinkingblue
He probably could have drove in 130 with a good OPS then.
2006-07-11 12:32:08
128.   dsfan
Cool stat. How did you come up with it?
2006-07-11 12:34:16
129.   Fallout
123 thinkingblue
Of all the many problems on this team, JD Drew isnt one of them.

Neither is Izturis at 3rd. A lot of teams struggle with that position. That is why you have 2nd basemans playing 3rd like Edgardo Alfonzo and David Bell. It's pitching which no one has enough of.

2006-07-11 12:34:47
130.   dianagramr
Worst OPS with 100+ RBIs in season in DH era

RBI >= 100

1 Ruben Sierra 1993 .678 101
2 Joe Carter 1990 .681 115
3 Joe Carter 1997 .683 102
4 Tony Armas 1983 .707 107
5 George Bell 1992 .712 112
6 Hubie Brooks 1985 .723 100
7 Tony Batista 2004 .728 110
8 Derek Bell 1996 .729 113
9 Bill Buckner 1986 .733 102
10 Glenn Wilson 1985 .735 102

2006-07-11 12:35:19
131.   Bob Timmermann
Tommy Herr batted third on a Cardinals team that had Vince Coleman and Willie McGee on base ahead of him most of the time. And they were both stealing bases like it was nobody's business. And even #8 hitter Ozzie Smith wasn't too shabby in 1985.
2006-07-11 12:36:28
132.   dianagramr

Lee Sinin's Sabermetic Encyclopedia

2006-07-11 12:38:51
133.   Sushirabbit
A few less "blues" and we'd go in a few less circles. My fat cat can sleep upside down. You do the math.
2006-07-11 12:39:35
134.   dianagramr
And here are the career worst OPS for those with 1000+ RBI in the DH era

RBI >= 1000

1 Tim Wallach .732 1125
2 Bill Buckner .732 1126
3 Gary Gaetti .741 1341
4 B.J. Surhoff .745 1153
5 Buddy Bell .751 1070
6 Graig Nettles .751 1062
7 Lance Parrish .753 1070
8 Ruben Sierra .766 1318
9 Bret Boone .767 1021
10 Alan Trammell .767 1003

2006-07-11 12:39:42
135.   JoeyP
Is it true Luke Hochevar wants 5.25 million from the Royals to sign?
2006-07-11 12:40:46
136.   skybluestoday
Re: 125 & 126

Thank you! Good info.

2006-07-11 12:41:59
137.   bonnie
Not to bust up the Drew debate, but Sam and Jon, count me in. I love DT and the content is much better than things I actually subscribe to and pay money for.

One suggestion. Maybe Jon can set up a recurring monthly option? That way Sam won't go broke trying to motivate us procrastinators.

2006-07-11 12:42:17
138.   Terry A
129 is buttressed by the rumor, in today's San Diego Union Tribune, that the Dodgers have inquired about Aaron Boone's availability.

Yes, that Aaron Boone. He of the .314 OBP (and four homers) in 80 games.

Izturis at 3B suddenly doesn't sound so bad.

2006-07-11 12:42:41
139.   dsfan

I don't recall Depo being portrayed as an "idiot" for giving a low-risk deal to Erickson. What did he have to lose?

2006-07-11 12:45:57
140.   Steve
Yes, that Aaron Boone. He of the .314 OBP (and four homers) in 80 games.

Izturis at 3B suddenly doesn't sound so bad.

This is precisely why Izturis needs to stay at third. Besides Aybar, which is a debatable proposition, anything that Colletti can do could only make the situation worse. In fact, he'd probably trade Aybar for Boone. Because he is, after all, an idiot.

2006-07-11 12:47:00
141.   dianagramr

Kim Ng wouldn't make that deal ...

2006-07-11 12:48:06
142.   dsfan
129, 138

Expounding upon your points, the Dodgers' groundball ratio is the second-highest in both the NL and the majors. Mr. Izturis, you are welcomed.

2006-07-11 12:48:11
143.   D4P
I think we're supposed to look for something in between "idiot" and "genius." I suppose semi-idiot would meet that criterion...
2006-07-11 12:49:06
144.   dsfan

Darn, couldn't get the site to appear, but thanks.

2006-07-11 12:49:09
145.   bluetahoe
Hey Steve. Ned guided us to the 4th best record in the league. If anyone is an idiot, its that GM who thought we could win with likes of Schmoll, Houlton, and Erickson. GARBAGE, GARBAGE, GARBAGE!!!
2006-07-11 12:49:31
146.   dianagramr

that would be Steve Phillips

2006-07-11 12:52:03
147.   dianagramr

2006-07-11 12:52:36
148.   Steve
143 -- Ignore-ance is bliss.
2006-07-11 12:53:29
149.   dsfan

Thanks, got it this time.

2006-07-11 12:53:37
150.   Jon Weisman
Okay, I concede. Bluetahoe gets genius, Steve gets idiot, and I get on with my day.

New topic: What's My Line? I'm thinking of someone. Each commenter gets one yes-or-no question. Go.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-11 12:55:06
151.   JoeyP
145...At the risk of fanning the flames of this flamer, how can DJ Houlton be considered garbage, and Brett Tomko be considered a 4/5 starter by you?

Have you compared the two side-side between last year and this year?
There's not much of a difference.

46-42 is nice.
Its still not as nice as 93-69.

2006-07-11 12:55:23
152.   skybluestoday

Aw, I don't think it was that bad. So far as I recall, Schmoll pitched pretty well at the beginning of the year. Houlton even out-dueled Roger Clemens during an Astros game at one point (I'm trusting a slightly faulty memory here), and had some pretty decent arrows in his quiver. Erickson was awful, I admit. But Schmoll and Houlton showed much promise at different times during last season.

2006-07-11 12:56:39
153.   Bob Timmermann
So is this a mystery guest situation?
2006-07-11 12:58:10
154.   dianagramr

Is this person a current MLB player?

2006-07-11 12:58:15
155.   Penarol1916
150. Is your person an athlete?
2006-07-11 12:58:15
156.   bobbygrich
140 The "Aaron Boone" rumour has been out there tor a while.

Ned is usually pretty good about keeping is intentions hidden, so I would be more inclined to believe that if a move happens, it will be something that has not been talked about for weeks.

I think by now we know that are those who dislike our GM because of his moves that involved trading younger players regardless of their current status. There are others who so disliked our past GM that anyone who stepped in and did not do things like acquire SABR friendly players and trade "heart and soul" players was going to be better.

Maybe we can see how this plays out, analyze and discuss any future moves on their merits and not on some philosophy and support the team regardless.

Just a voice from the Inner Reserved.

2006-07-11 12:58:17
157.   JoeyP

If this happens, do the Giants still allow him to play out the season?

2006-07-11 12:58:23
158.   s choir
150 Does this someone work for the Dodgers?
2006-07-11 12:59:04
159.   Johnson
150 (After Bob has wasted his one question)...Are you a sports figure?
2006-07-11 12:59:24
160.   D4P
Let's do up to 6 billion or so processes of elimination. I'll go first.

Is the person me?

2006-07-11 12:59:49
161.   Johnson
154,155,158 Doh! Doh! Doh!
2006-07-11 12:59:55
162.   Blu2
140 Agreed. But I'd still rather switch Nomar to third and call up Loney. Why would switching him to third affect his hitting? He hit pretty good at shortstop if I remember correctly... Come to think of it, having Loney in the lineup would be like having two Nomars. Or Nomae or whatever...
2006-07-11 13:00:49
163.   bobbygrich
150 Did this person during the television runs of "Wonderama" or "Hobo Kelly"?
2006-07-11 13:00:52
164.   JoeyP
Does the person have more than 5 letters in their first name?
2006-07-11 13:02:04
165.   bobbygrich
150 163 Let me try again,
Did this person grow up during the television runs of "Wonderama" or "Hobo Kelly"?
2006-07-11 13:02:12
166.   Jon Weisman
Is this a mystery guest situation? Yes.
Is this person a current MLB player? No.
Is your person an athlete? No.
Does this someone work for the Dodgers? No.
Are you a sports figure? You may only know me as a sports figure, though that's not what I'm most famous for.
2006-07-11 13:02:22
167.   Bob Timmermann
May we have a conference?
2006-07-11 13:03:37
168.   Jon Weisman
Is the person me? It's possible, I suppose - that'd be a funny coincidence.
Does the person have more than 5 letters in their first name? Yes
Did this person grow up during the television runs of "Wonderama" or "Hobo Kelly"? You could say that.
2006-07-11 13:04:01
169.   Sam DC
and I get on with my day.

DT comments What's My Line = getting on with day?

I like your day more than mine today.

2006-07-11 13:04:06
170.   Jon Weisman
167 - Sure.
2006-07-11 13:04:16
171.   blue22
Is this person Ted Danson?
2006-07-11 13:04:50
172.   Jon Weisman
169 - Yeah, actually, I really shouldn't have done this.
2006-07-11 13:05:47
173.   Sushirabbit
Is it a real person or a fictional person?
2006-07-11 13:06:33
174.   Sam DC
Too many letters for Bert Convy.
2006-07-11 13:06:37
175.   Sushirabbit
171 no, see: 168
2006-07-11 13:08:07
176.   blue22
175 - oops more than 5 letters in their first name.

Guess that does it for my questions.

2006-07-11 13:08:22
177.   Jon Weisman
Is this person Ted Danson? No.
Is it a real person? Yes.
2006-07-11 13:08:56
178.   Jon Weisman
If this isn't solved by 1:15, each commenter will be granted a second question.
2006-07-11 13:09:08
179.   bobbygrich
BTW - Wonderama was on the air, according to, between 1955-1987 but I am talking about a period between the late 60's thru the 70's. Hobo Kelly, a local L.A. show, was on the air from 1969-1973.
2006-07-11 13:10:22
180.   Terry A
Is this person Raymond Burr?
2006-07-11 13:10:25
181.   Sam DC
Is this person male?
2006-07-11 13:12:18
182.   Jon Weisman
Was this person born before the 1970s?
2006-07-11 13:12:51
183.   Jon Weisman
Is this person Raymond Burr? No.
Is this person male? Yes.
Was this person born before the 1970s? Yes.
2006-07-11 13:13:04
184.   bobbygrich
Think about it folks, what is Jon's frame of reference (someone in his or her 30's or early 40's and what fields does Jon work in.
2006-07-11 13:13:16
185.   Bob Timmermann
Conference dialog:

"Well, I think Steve and Edie are performing tonight at the Waldorf ..."
"But isn't Dana Andrews opening up a new picture soon?"
"Well, I just had lunch with Noel Coward ..."

2006-07-11 13:13:32
186.   Jon Weisman
By the way, I haven't forgotten about the Comedian Fantasy Draft. Date TBD.
2006-07-11 13:14:12
187.   Terry A
[i]Is this person male? Yes.[/i]
[i]Was this person born before the 1970s? Yes.[/i]

Oh, so it's Bea(trice) Arthur.

(And for the record, that was not a question.)

2006-07-11 13:16:20
188.   Steve
One of my favorite conceits of WML is when Arlene pronounces rodeo "Ro-day-o."
2006-07-11 13:17:54
189.   DXMachina
Does the person currently star on a TV show?
2006-07-11 13:18:17
190.   s choir
186 I've got Sarah Silverman at No. 1 on my board. I'm hoping that Carlos Mencia slips to the second round.
2006-07-11 13:20:31
191.   Jon Weisman
Does the person currently star on a TV show? No.

190 - Given the time frame of the competition, they are neither eligible nor useful. You had to have elicited a laugh through an on-screen appearance by December 31, 1975.

2006-07-11 13:23:28
192.   Humma Kavula
Is the person an entertainer?
2006-07-11 13:24:40
193.   Penarol1916
Is this person alive?
2006-07-11 13:26:03
194.   underdog
Sarah Silverman over Dave Chappelle? I want in on this draft! Dibs on Dana Gould in round 5.

Hm, I guess the answer's not Bob Uecker, his first name's too short. I just like that Jon came up with a way to get people off the previous topics!

2006-07-11 13:27:08
195.   blue22
191 - Re: fantasy comedians - What is the scoring criteria then?

Given the timeframe qualifications, most of us young'ns would be wise to go with original cast SNL.

2006-07-11 13:27:19
196.   Jon Weisman
Is the person an entertainer? Yes.
Is this person alive? Yes.

Man, this really does take a long time, doesn't it. Half an hour to establish living male entertainer born before the 1970s with more than five letters in first name.

2006-07-11 13:28:08
197.   Jon Weisman
195 - That is to be revealed. When I get closer to the actual draft, I'll clue you in.
2006-07-11 13:28:26
198.   Humma Kavula
Are we allowed more questions?

I suppose that's a question in itself. Let's see if Jon answers it!

2006-07-11 13:29:04
199.   dianagramr
Hey Jon .... I just noticed that you have Navarro still listed on the DL ...

(playing in Tampa may still count as being on the DL though)

2006-07-11 13:29:48
200.   blue22
197 - Does it encompass their post-1975 performances, or up to 12/31/75?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-11 13:29:51
201.   Jon Weisman
199 - sidebar updates come as they come.
198 - you may have one question every five minutes.
2006-07-11 13:29:59
202.   dianagramr
Is this living male entertainer born before 1975 with more than 5 letters in his name a singer?
2006-07-11 13:30:11
203.   dianagramr
Is this living male entertainer born before 1975 with more than 5 letters in his name a singer?
2006-07-11 13:30:19
204.   Jon Weisman
200 - No more questions on the draft. I'll make things clear when it comes.
2006-07-11 13:30:48
205.   Jon Weisman
Is this living male entertainer born before 1975 with more than 5 letters in his name a singer? Yes, but.
2006-07-11 13:31:55
206.   Humma Kavula
Is he best-known for recordings (vs. live performances)?
2006-07-11 13:32:04
207.   blue22 more than one question every five minutes on the WML. No more questions on the Comedy Fantasy Draft.

So then...who thinks Julian Tavarez is destined to wear Dodger Blue this year?

2006-07-11 13:33:01
208.   MartinBillingsley31
Serious question:
If you ignore that these are small sample sizes in that chart, could a person have a reasonable argument that the starting pitching would be pretty much the same if we started out with a starting rotation of penny, lowe, perez, seo, billingsley, and then when perez blew up we brought up sele to replace him in the rotation?

The reason why i'm asking this is that we would have avoided signing tomko to 2 years and we would have avoided trading navarro for hendrickson.

I didn't want tomko for 2 years, and i didn't want ned to trade navarro for hendrickson and i was willing to use sele as insurance for the rotation.

2006-07-11 13:33:24
209.   Sam DC
well, a singer lesserly known as a sports figure.
2006-07-11 13:34:37
210.   s choir
191 Crap. The only person I can think of is Richard Nixon. But I'm sure he'll be snapped up.
2006-07-11 13:34:58
211.   Jon Weisman
208 - Other than the risk of Billingsley pulling an Edwin Jackson at such a hurried promotion, you could argue that. But there's a chance Billingsley would have been an 8.00 pitcher in April. On the other hand, few predicted Perez would be this awful.
2006-07-11 13:35:24
212.   Jon Weisman
You guys are so far off, I'm thinking of switching my mystery guest to someone closer to your guesses.
2006-07-11 13:35:49
213.   JoeyP
I cant think of any singers that were once sports figures.
2006-07-11 13:36:54
214.   Humma Kavula
Is this person best known for singing?
2006-07-11 13:37:53
215.   s choir
Is he the guy who sings God Bless America at selected post-9/11 Yankees games?
2006-07-11 13:38:14
216.   Jon Weisman
The mystery guest is a singer the same way that Steve from Blues Clues is a singer.
2006-07-11 13:38:20
217.   Penarol1916
The only person coming to my mind is Sylvester Stallone.
2006-07-11 13:39:08
218.   Sushirabbit
Is it Leonard Nimoy?!
2006-07-11 13:40:33
219.   Sushirabbit
216 Is it Joe from Blues Clues? Just kiddin' that's for all the other parents of youngish kids.
2006-07-11 13:41:42
220.   katysdad
Is he William Shatner?
2006-07-11 13:43:15
221.   Jon Weisman
You all give up on narrowing down the possibilities way too soon.

We'll not be playing this game again, that's for sure :)

2006-07-11 13:43:18
222.   blue22
Carl Lewis? Dang, only 4 letters.
2006-07-11 13:43:54
223.   ssjames
Is the person Shaquille O'Neal?
2006-07-11 13:43:54
224.   Humma Kavula
Has he ever been a regular on a television program?
2006-07-11 13:43:58
225.   Sushirabbit
Since I have to actually go do some work, you can answer this question in approx 5 minutes. Did this person have their own television show?
2006-07-11 13:44:40
226.   Humma Kavula
hah! four seconds!
2006-07-11 13:45:45
227.   Terry A
Dandy Don(ald) Meredith.
2006-07-11 13:45:46
228.   Sushirabbit
It is interesting that those who fall in the Idiot v Midas camp don't seem to be asking Qs.
2006-07-11 13:47:46
229.   s choir
228 sshhhhh! let sleeping dogs lie!
2006-07-11 13:49:08
230.   Jon Weisman
224 - Yes, and thank you.
2006-07-11 13:50:02
231.   Humma Kavula
Was that show a variety show (as opposed to a sitcom or drama)?
2006-07-11 13:51:19
232.   dianagramr
was that show on a cable channel?
2006-07-11 13:52:32
233.   Jon Weisman
Was that show a variety show (as opposed to a sitcom or drama)? No.
He was also in a movie, and it's the movie that some of you might know him from.

Was that show on a cable channel? No.

But if I could erase the past hour from Dodger Thoughts, I would.

2006-07-11 13:52:35
234.   s choir
Is the show currently in wide syndication?
2006-07-11 13:53:55
235.   Sam DC
Wow -- Kelsey Grammer has had some rough stuff in his life. And he's considering running for Congress. The things you learn at Wikipedia while trying to figure out if someone has arguably been a sports figure.
2006-07-11 13:56:14
236.   Bob Timmermann
Is it Alex Karros?
2006-07-11 13:56:28
237.   Jon Weisman
234 - No.

And speaking of getting on with my day ...

Was he a child star? Yes.
Was he in a baseball-related movie? Yes.
Was he an older child in that movie? Yes.
Was he a main character in that movie? No.
Was that movie made in the 1970s? Yes.
Was the TV show made in the 1970s? Yes.

2006-07-11 13:56:51
238.   ssjames
Was the tv show a sitcom?
2006-07-11 13:57:02
239.   Jon Weisman
Did he play a baseball player? Yes.
Is his last name the same as a current Dodger? Yes.
2006-07-11 13:58:08
240.   ToyCannon
Glad that is over:)

Seems much more likely that A Boone would be destined for SD then LA since they have Castillo doing his death march at 3b with only Blum and Bellhorn to help keep him on his feet as he staggers to his last 81 games.

2006-07-11 13:59:05
241.   blue22
Is this person Brandon Cruz?
2006-07-11 13:59:10
242.   dsfan
Starting Bills in the majors this year would have been unfair to him and likely hurtful to the club both on and the field this year and beyond.
Even with the extra seasoning he did get this year, the lad clearly is more thrower than pitcher at this stage. Better to get some time in Triple-A to calm down and refine a bit, than start out with a big-market club.

Beyond the baseball reasons, if you start his arbitration clock on Opening Day, as opposed to June, you move him into an earlier arbitration class and subject yourself to much higher salaries in his fourth, fifth and sixth years.

Sele's good pitching was critical for several reasons. One is he bought time for Billingsley. As a small bonus, perhaps, Bills has gotten to watch Sele win through accuracy.

2006-07-11 13:59:56
243.   Bob Timmermann
Can I take my mask off?
2006-07-11 13:59:57
244.   Jon Weisman
241 - Yes.
2006-07-11 14:00:38
245.   blue22
244 - Hooray!
2006-07-11 14:01:53
246.   Terry A
"But if I could erase the past hour from Dodger Thoughts, I would."

LOL, Jon.

2006-07-11 14:02:46
247.   Penarol1916
I have honestly never heard the name Brandon Cruz before.
2006-07-11 14:02:47
248.   D4P
Is Brandon Cruz an idiot or a genius?
2006-07-11 14:03:16
249.   blue22
Nice Dead Kennedy's reference too.
2006-07-11 14:07:39
250.   dagwich
249 Me either. Penelope Cruz, on the other hand....
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-11 14:08:20
251.   dagwich
That should be 247
2006-07-11 14:08:55
252.   Jon Weisman
When you stop narrowing down after "is he an entertainer," it's like bunting with the cleanup hitter.
2006-07-11 14:09:36
253.   Bob Timmermann
Nobody asked "Have you had a picture open on Broadway in the past week?"
2006-07-11 14:11:12
254.   Steve
[one withering glare from Dorothy Kilgallen]
2006-07-11 14:14:39
255.   Bob Timmermann
[followed by Dorothy Kilgallen stumbling over drunk and passing out]
2006-07-11 14:16:05
256.   Sushirabbit
What? I thought Leonard Nimoy was funny. Maybe not coke through the nose funny, but you know, chuckle funny.
2006-07-11 14:17:40
257.   Steve
[followed by Johnnie Ray putting her to bed then going to Toots Shor's]
2006-07-11 14:19:33
258.   Bob Timmermann
[then FBI agents drugging her because she knows too much about the JFK assassination]
2006-07-11 14:25:32
259.   blue22
LakersThoughts: Charges against Kwame Brown dropped.
2006-07-11 14:28:50
260.   Blu2
We'd better have a game soon or let Flanders make another idiotic trade or we'll be playing charades something worse.
2006-07-11 14:28:57
261.   dagwich
Dorothy Kilgallen...all this time I thought it was Kitty Carlisle. IMDB infoms me that Kitty C was on "To Tell the Truth." My day is a little better for getting that straight.
2006-07-11 14:32:55
262.   Bob Timmermann
Arlene Francis and Kitty Carlisle ran in the same circles. They tended to be more involved with the theater. Dorothy Kilgallen tended to be more involved with people in music (like Johnnie Ray), although she was married to a Broadway producer.
2006-07-11 14:36:02
263.   Jon Weisman
260 - Speaking of which:

Programming Reminder - Today's All-Star game chat is at the Griddle.

2006-07-11 14:38:55
264.   bobbygrich
"People let me tell about my best friend."

or "He could have killed that kid."

2006-07-11 14:40:48
265.   dagwich
Kitty Carlisle was the female lead in the Marx Bros "A Night at the Opera" and actually was a pretty good singer.

And speaking of opera -- my brother is the one who is the conductor for the great money pit "Grendel." It opens at Lincoln Center in NYC tonight and I get to see it this weekend.

My mother gave it a great big thumbs down. She went to the aborted "premeire" in LA, which turned into a dress rehersal which cost the patrons full price. I'm sure that went over well.

2006-07-11 14:45:25
266.   Steve
262 -- As was Arlene, who was married to big time show-stopping broadway producer...Martin Gabel, aka D4P.
2006-07-11 14:48:22
267.   Bob Timmermann
But can anyone name the 1980s TV series that Kitty Carlisle AND Arlene Francis had a joint cameo appearance in as themelves?

I think it was the last acting appearance by Arlene Francis.

And it's NOT listed on the IMDB.

2006-07-11 14:53:27
268.   Jon Weisman
267 - Was it "You Do the Math"?
2006-07-11 14:54:57
269.   Penarol1916
267. Was it Sabado Gigante?
2006-07-11 14:55:24
270.   Blu2
Rumor has it Andruw Jones can be had in trade. This is the kind of splash that would appeal to Flanders. How about Furball for Jones? Neatly solve a couple of our problems. Jones in center, Cruz on the trading block, Kemp as outfielder number 4 or 5 or back to Las Vegas, Lofton on the bench or on the block. A lot of possibilities...
2006-07-11 14:57:22
271.   dagwich
267. No idea. My gut tells me it was "The Golden Girls."

But what I have in common with Jim Tracy is that my gut instinct is usually wrong.

2006-07-11 15:00:32
272.   D4P
Martin Gabel, aka D4P

I don't get it, but then, I don't get a lot of things around here.

2006-07-11 15:01:03
273.   the OZ
270 The Braves already have Renteria at SS making a decent wage; I doubt they'd trade an expensive player like Andruw for a slightly less expensive and significantly less effective player at a position where they're already comfortable.

Although I like your thinking. Getting a slugging outfielder would be a big boost to this team, right behind adding a good starting pitcher and slugging infielder in priority. I think Lofton represents a prime opportunity for an upgrade, allowing Ethier and Kemp to platoon or spell Drew.

2006-07-11 15:02:02
274.   Blu2
270 Continued: Izzy back to short; Nomar to third; Loney called up for first base. Not a weak bat anywhere but Izzy.Even with our pitching that club would win the West going away.
2006-07-11 15:16:35
275.   the OZ
274 I think you're hitting on a relevant point, and the ASB seems as good a time as any to address it.

Offensively, this team was constructed using a lot of redundant parts, especially in the infield. This has been discussed before, but I don't think this team needed to add three shortstops during the offseason and NOT pursue OFs or 1B. Nomar's been nice at 1B, but he'd likely be just as nice at 3B. Then we could have Izturis at SS or 2B where his bat plays less terribly, spelling Kent and Furcal. Now we don't have enough places to put the middle infielders and none of them are seemingly attractive enough to net much via return trade.

The uncertainty regarding Izturis' elbow made some of these decisions more difficult, I'm sure, but I feel that we got a little too much insurance and perhaps not enough talent.

2006-07-11 15:18:57
276.   Sam DC

Fundraiser Continues -- See Comment 25 and refernced comments

This'll be the last day, I'm proud to announce -- too successful to continue!

2006-07-11 15:25:25
277.   D4P
Glad to hear the "Spend Sam DC's Money" fundraiser has been a success. Maybe Jon can use some of the funds to lure Danica "You Do the Math" McKellar into a DT chat event someday...
2006-07-11 15:26:48
278.   Steve
You're Martin Gabel. You're D4P. You do the math.
2006-07-11 15:31:45
279.   Bob Timmermann
The show has not been guessed. I will give one hint: the show had two titles while it was on and it started as a drama and then was retooled into being a comedy.
2006-07-11 15:50:12
280.   Marty
279 Bosom Buddies?
2006-07-11 15:52:31
281.   Johnson
279 Was it "Valerie" which was changed to "Valerie's Family" which was then changed to "The Harpers" (if I've got that right)? I don't remember "Valerie" being a drama, though.
2006-07-11 17:15:44
282.   coachjpark
Just read through some of the comments generated by my Korean post... didn't think that such a seemingly harmless post would create such a stir. Obviously, I don't think that those were the worst Dodger moves made.

I do, however, agree with Blu2 that Lost's Yunjin Kim would be a good addition to the Dodgers :)

2006-07-11 17:20:10
283.   Bob Timmermann
The show still has not been guessed. The show is in the IMDB. It's just that Kitty Carlisle and Arlene Francis aren't credited because they don't have all the guest stars listed.

The show started off as a one-hour drama and then came back as a half-hour sitcom. And it wasn't very good in either format.

A man who rose to fame on the Letterman show joined the cast when it became a sitcom.

2006-07-11 17:50:12
284.   3upn3down
My lord, who is this Penny guy pitching for the NL? I am paranoid he is going to hurt himself throwing this hard!!!


2006-07-11 17:52:46
285.   Rainman
284. I'm right there with ya, 3up. We've been conditioned as Dodger fans to expect the worst out of the best... what a great show in the first - hope he doesn't sling his elbow toward home in the second...
2006-07-11 17:53:57
286.   Uncle Miltie
Is this Brad Penny? Wow.

I really hope he doesn't get hurt. I hope the Dodgers told Garner no more than 1 inning.

2006-07-11 17:53:57
287.   Borchard504
Outstanding 1st inning - is that an understatement? I was so waiting for triple digits. Wow.
2006-07-11 17:54:46
288.   Fern
Guys, please tell me he's always a grunter and wasn't just overthrowing in that inning.
2006-07-11 17:55:12
289.   trainwreck
So much for Brad not being a worthy starter.
2006-07-11 17:56:43
290.   3upn3down
He is and always has been a grunter!
2006-07-11 17:58:23
291.   Fern
That's reassuring at least...the grunts aren't something that Audio picks up.
2006-07-11 17:58:52
292.   D4P
Hey everyone - Head over to The Griddle for the All-Star Game chat. All the cool people are there...

2006-07-11 20:10:11
293.   StolenMonkey86
I saw Hoffman pitch for the Pads in a save situation against the Nationals, and he just doesn't look like a closer. I was thinking at the time, this guy is incredibly lucky that he's not Danys Baez.

I'll just assume he's setting up for Nomar.

2006-07-11 20:29:23
294.   Gen3Blue
I'm not sure we get the game on the east coast--its Fox.
2006-07-11 20:52:02
295.   blue22
Is the show "The Courtship of Eddie's Father"?
2006-07-11 21:18:49
296.   das411
Korean alert on Letterman, CJP are you still here??

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