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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Sweatin' To the Oldies
2006-07-13 09:25
by Jon Weisman

As much as any other ballpark in the National League in recent years, Busch Stadium in St. Louis has seemed like a house of horrors to me. Impressionistically, it's a place that's always 100 degrees on the field with 100 percent humidity and balls zinging along the turf and Dodger pitchers melting like so many wicked witches. Like the little claustrophoic egg that takes you up the Gateway Arch, it feels like there's no way out.

Well, not only is the above not all true, it's no longer even relevant. Tonight, the Dodgers play their first game at new Busch Stadium, where everything's different. Except the name. And the fact that the Cardinals are averaging more than five runs a game at home. And the fact that the game-time forecast is merely 92 degrees with 67 percent humidity.


Comments (240)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-13 09:34:55
1.   Bob Timmermann
The only time I saw the Dodgers play in St. Louis:

You know a lot of the fans left early that day.

2006-07-13 09:43:21
2.   bluetahoe
I was in Louie in 2001 for 3 of 4 but only stayed for 2. It was capital M-I-S-E-R-A-B-L-E miserable.

The Dodgers split the 2. The game they won was when Gagne laoded the bases in the 9th with nobody out with a 1 run lead and he got out of it. Might have been the 4th of July. It was an ESPN game.

I was scheduled to be in Louie this weekend to catch the Blue Crew but some personal issues came up and I'm a know show.

2006-07-13 09:44:06
3.   bluetahoe
no show
2006-07-13 09:45:21
4.   Bob Timmermann
Meet me in St. Louie, bluetahoe
I'm in ...

Wait, I better try something else.

People in the know call St. Louis "The Mound City."

2006-07-13 09:55:24
5.   bluetahoe
The Dodgers stay at the Westin on Spruce Street and its right by the stadium. They had openings for Thursday and Saturday night. I had to cancel of course, but I was hoping a room would be available the last minute Friday so I wouldn't have to go hotel hopping. Moot point now.

I've got some advice for anyone who's venturing to Cincinnati. They stay at the Westin there too. The price is $309 a night. UNGODLY, even though its during the week. But to make a long story short I got them to get me 2 nights at $199 a night. My advice, if I can talk them down anyone can. Trust me, Dodger road trips are much more enjoyable when you stay at the team hotel. Its Dodger heaven.

2006-07-13 09:56:31
6.   Penarol1916
All I can say is that we are in for a major heat wave in the midwest this weekend, temps near 100 with tremendous humidity.
2006-07-13 09:59:06
7.   Bob Timmermann
I have been to Cincinnati. I don't think there is any place to stay there that would make that city more enjoyable.
2006-07-13 09:59:16
8.   Terry A
'tahoe, are you stalking Neddie? ;)

St. Louis can also be called "The Mullet City." Some amazing 'dos among Cards fans, many of whom are wearing Tommy Herr throwback jerseys to boot.

2006-07-13 10:01:59
9.   Bob Timmermann
When I have a rare chance to meet my relatives from the St. Louis area, I wonder if we are truly related.
2006-07-13 10:05:18
10.   Xeifrank
I was a HUGE "Big Red Machine" fan back in "the days" of their glory. The best game I ever saw there was seeing the Reds play the Cardinals. I got to see Lou Brock steal a base and all my favorites like Bench, Morgan, Concepcion/Cheney, Driessen, Armbrister, Griffey, Geronimo, Denny, Carroll were all there. I'm not sure who won the game, I was only 6 years old.
vr, Xei
2006-07-13 10:07:15
11.   Xeifrank
4. I went to see the mounds last summer. Quite an amazing feet what those native americans built.
vr, Xei
2006-07-13 10:11:20
12.   Bob Timmermann
Anthropologists generally call the people who lived in that part of the Mississippi River basin who built mounds, "The Moundbuilders."

They were up late working on that.

2006-07-13 10:12:47
13.   bluetahoe
8. Ned is a personable and pleasurable man from my brief conversations with, and observations of him.
2006-07-13 10:25:27
14.   njr

In my opinion, you are on a quiet roll this morning.

(I've decided that until I have something really valauble to contribute on the baseball front my purpose will be as a cheerleader for the superior wit that permeates this board. But wait-- maybe by pointing out the humor I'll kill it. Back to Lurking!)

2006-07-13 10:27:52
15.   ToyCannon
I loved the Dodger/Red battles in the middle 70's. It was easy to hate a team with Pete Rose on it.
2006-07-13 10:31:43
16.   Sushirabbit
The new stadium is really nice. I thought about trying to go to this game, but I knew what it would be like, even at night.

I like Cincinatti If you like middle eastern/Mediterranean food try Mejana. It right downtown. ladhiidhatun لذيذةٌ!

2006-07-13 10:50:51
17.   D4P
Anyone watch the "Save Our Busch" episode of Cheap Seats? I love that show...
2006-07-13 10:52:45
18.   scareduck
My wife once was a member of a marching band that had the privilege of playing in Busch Stadium when they had Astroturf in it. A number of musicians passed out from heat stroke, as the temperatures were in the low triple digits at field level, along with the usual stifling Missouri humidity.
2006-07-13 10:55:11
19.   D4P
The lone Durham Bulls' game I've attended since moving here was on a positively stifling evening last August. Outrageously humid with no breeze. The good news was that I came home with not one, but two programs from the game with BJ Upton on the front. I'm still waiting for Nate to offer me a large sum of money for them...
2006-07-13 10:55:59
20.   Bob Timmermann
At Busch Stadium II (Sportsman's Park was Busch Stadium I then came Busch Memorial Stadium which later dropped the Memorial so I call it Busch II), I got to see my father fall asleep during a baseball game. We were seated way in the upper deck on a sweltering night trying to watch an incredibly slow-paced game between the Astros and Cardinals.

However, the boxscore indicates that it only took 2:39. But it seemed like it took six hours because it was so hot.

2006-07-13 11:00:41
21.   scareduck
18 - I should also add

a) obviously, this was during the summer, and
b) she was lucky; along with half the band, she wore white. The other half wore black.

2006-07-13 11:02:26
22.   dagwich
19 Every time I go to a Bulls game Upton throws one into the stands, or makes some other boneheaded play. In fact the Bulls might win the award for the dumbest team in baseball -- between BJ's errors, Young's 50 game suspension, Duke getting suspended, and even the manager getting 10 days for bumping an umpire.

It's like going to roller derby or a hockey game in the 70s.

2006-07-13 11:04:33
23.   the OZ
17 Does that show have the Sklar brothers? Because those guys are awful. I can't fathom how they convinced someone to put them on television.
2006-07-13 11:04:56
24.   Bob Timmermann
b) she was lucky; along with half the band, she wore white. The other half wore black.

Two bandmembers on their way
Two bandmembers on their way
One wore white
And won wore black

One wore white and one wore black
As they marched along the track
A drummer and trumpeter went kersmack
All on a stifling morning...

2006-07-13 11:12:25
25.   D4P
Yes, the show has the Sklar brothers, and no, they're not awful. They're hil-ar-ious.
2006-07-13 11:13:02
26.   Bob Timmermann

Aren't they really the Sklar Twins?

2006-07-13 11:15:16
27.   Jon Weisman
Mrs. Jerry Seinfeld's maiden name is Sklar.
2006-07-13 11:16:13
28.   the OZ
26 Well, I guess technicalyy we're all brothers and sisters in one big Human family, right? So maybe Sklar Twins is more appropriate.
2006-07-13 11:17:22
29.   Terry A
Didn't we just draft a Kersmack?

I've been to many, many games in the last version of Busch Stadium. It used to be an annual trek for our family to catch the Dodgers on one of their visits to St. Louis.

St. Louis is actually a tad cooler than where I live. (No, it's not Hell, but on a clear day...)

2006-07-13 11:18:26
30.   the OZ
Through 7 holes at the John Deere Classic, Michelle Wie has made only one par.

Two birdies, three bogeys, one double, and the par for +3.

2006-07-13 11:18:33
31.   Humma Kavula
The guy who is responsible for a lot of the rides at Disneyland is also named Sklar.

2006-07-13 11:49:44
32.   Humma Kavula
I have killed the thread. But was it...

.....murder?! (Cue music sting.)

2006-07-13 12:05:02
33.   dkminnick
Whatever anyone says about old Busch Stadium no discussion of St. Louis would be complete without it being said that Cardinal fans have to be the nicest people on Earth.

I was fortunate enough to be at Games 3 & 4 of the 2004 World Series with a friend of mine who wore, essentially, a Red Sox uniform everywhere we went for those two days.

There was some good-natured ribbing back and forth but absolutely no hostility anywhere. In fact, after the Sox completed the sweep, as we were making our way down from our seats (near the top of the right field foul pole) to the Red Sox celebration taking place at the third base dugout, many, many Cardinal fans were stopping us all along the say saying, "Congratulations!", "The best team won!", "I'm happy for you guys!" and on and on.

It was so gracious and good-natured that it literally brought tears to my eyes.

God bless the good ol' Midwest.

2006-07-13 12:08:28
34.   Paul Scott
My Federalism and Conflicts of Law professor was named Sclar.
2006-07-13 12:15:16
35.   Penarol1916
My son's favorite Thomas the Tank Engine Train is named Skarloey, that's about as close as I can get to this whole Sklar thing.
2006-07-13 12:22:58
36.   the OZ
My least favorite 'comedians' are named Sklar.
2006-07-13 12:29:41
37.   underdog
I'm still in shock that there's a hotel in Cincinnati that charges over $300 a night. Holy Toledo... There better be caviar, champagne, a beautiful woman and a view of another city out the window for that price.

I saw the Sklar Brothers (yes, they are twins) open for and then MC a special audience with the Mystery Science Theater guys here in SF a couple of years ago. They weren't awful, but I do recall wanting them off the stage so I could enjoy the MST banter.

Meanwhile, I'm glad they no longer play in the old Busch Stadium. Just watching games from there on TV made me sweaty, seeing the heat waves coming off the astroturf. {{shudder}}

2006-07-13 12:35:52
38.   Linkmeister
I knew I knew the name from somewhere. Lee Sklar is a bass player, usually a session musician.

2006-07-13 12:36:37
39.   the OZ
MST3K guys = great.

Mike Nelson wrote a book after the series concluded about the cheesiest movies ever made. "Road House" was his #1 pick. I think the logic was something like this:

(1) There is no such thing as a famous bouncer.

(2) There is no such thing as a villain singularly and maniacally focused on dominating a town in the middle of nowhere.

And the rest of that movie is so ridiculous, it's a goldmine.

2006-07-13 12:39:27
40.   the OZ
Michelle Wie update: she made two more pars, bringing her total to three, but they each followed a bogey. She's at +5 through 11 holes.
2006-07-13 12:41:34
41.   Steve
"Hi, my name is Steve"

"Welcome to MiSTies Anonymous, Steve."

"I'm home. I'm finally home."

2006-07-13 12:42:27
42.   Terry A
Rita Sklar is the executive director of the ACLU of Arkansas. She is a very busy woman, I suspect.
2006-07-13 12:43:14
43.   underdog
39 Yes! Mike Nelson's Movie Megacheese! Makes for great bathroom reading (meant as a compliment). I love the part about "Face/Off" where he goes off on other punctuation they could have used in the title.

There's actually a sequel to Road House, can you believe it?

On topic: There's a nice lil' piece on Clayton Kershaw on

2006-07-13 12:45:15
44.   underdog
41 I'm a long time member of MSTA!

Man... how come we don't get to face Jeff Weaver this weekend? That would be interesting. He'd either be fired up and pitch us well or we'd hit the crap out of him.

2006-07-13 12:47:20
45.   Linkmeister
Michelle Wie's tee-time was 3:44am HST, my paper told me. Not even for our local "phenom," as our local TV people insist on calling her, will I get up at that hour to watch golf.
2006-07-13 12:48:12
46.   DodgerBlueBruce
Speaking of Cincinnati: Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez & Ryan Wagner Traded to Washington just now for several pitchers & Royce Clayton. Sorry I didnt get the pitchers names.
2006-07-13 12:48:15
47.   Johnson
37 (Sklar brothers/MST3K/SF) Was that a one-time performance, or did they do a series? Because I was in attendance as well. Weird.
2006-07-13 12:48:19
48.   the OZ
44 The two outcomes would not be mutually exculsive.
2006-07-13 12:52:32
49.   Steve
Reds get:

Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Washington gets:

Austin Kearns
Felipe Lopez
Ryan Wagner

Mr. Bowden, I apologize. Nice job.

2006-07-13 12:54:02
50.   thinkblue0
from the rumor mill:

Names the Dodgers are interested in: Mike Gonzalez, Tom Gordon, Bob Wickman.


Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-13 12:55:59
51.   RELX
What the hell are the Reds thinking? That is like the worst trade in history--a mediocre SS and a mediocre reliever for Kearns, Lopez and Wagner??
2006-07-13 12:58:02
52.   blue22
49 - Holy cow. Well-played by Jim Bowden.

The non-Majewski and Clayton inclusions in that trade had better be something special.

2006-07-13 13:00:43
53.   Steve
Bill Bray just won the special election in the 49th. I guess I should wait until Nate passes judgment on the guys I've never heard of. But the Nationals have no minor league system to speak of, so I assume they are just fungible nothing.
2006-07-13 13:01:40
54.   the OZ
49 From the AP story on -

"In an effort to improve his ballclub and win the admiration of Internet-guy Steve Haskins, Nationals GM Jim Bowden fleeced the Reds by acquiring good shortstop Felipe Lopez, OF Austin Kearns, and P Ryan Wagner for bad shortstop Royce Clayton, a couple pitchers, and a California criminal attorney specializing in drunk-driving cases.

"'Steve's been on my case for a while,' said Bowden. 'I figured it's time that I stop being an idiot and acquire useful players without giving away anything of real value.'

"Haskins' publicist did not immediately return comments left at his website."

2006-07-13 13:02:19
55.   Bob Timmermann
RIP Red Buttons.

He won an Oscar!

2006-07-13 13:03:22
56.   regfairfield
49 That's a joke, right?
2006-07-13 13:04:10
57.   Terry A
Three buddies (albeit Cards fans) and I drove the 4+ hours one-way to watch this game in 1997:

We drove home afterwards. I then shaved, showered, and went to work, where I slept fitfully all darn day.

My most signficant memories: Thinking McGwire might actually hit a ball out of the stadium in BP (seriously); and being really nervous when Dreifort came in to pitch.

2006-07-13 13:05:09
58.   regfairfield
Okay, it's not. Who the heck are Bray, Harris and Thompson? Washington has possibly the worst farm system in baseball, so they can't be that good.
2006-07-13 13:06:18
59.   blue22
Old habits die hard. Bowden just can't help dismantling the Reds, even when he doesn't work for them anymore.
2006-07-13 13:06:20
60.   scareduck
39 - Mr. T is a famous bouncer.
2006-07-13 13:06:41
61.   the OZ
Mike Gonzalez is good.

Wickman is old and fat, which bodes well for my friend that wants the Dodgers to assemble an All-Fat team because he thinks it would be funny.

Gordon's had a pretty good year, but I don't trust his health.

That said, the only one I'd want to give up prospects for is Gonzalez. He stikes a ton of dudes out, walks more than I'd like, has been very good for three seasons, and would seem to be under club control through arbitration for the next three years.

2006-07-13 13:08:41
62.   thinkblue0
The Reds got absolutely fleeced in this deal. I can't imagine that someone in the FO didn't say like "hey, uhhh...yeah I know you're GM, but there's no way you're doing this deal"
2006-07-13 13:09:57
63.   thinkblue0

Completely agree. Gonzalez is the only guy there I feel comfortable acquiring. What are the chances Wickman would accept arb.? If we got him and he didn't accept, at least we'd get picks back.

2006-07-13 13:12:21
64.   natepurcell
I guess I should wait until Nate passes judgment on the guys I've never heard of. But the Nationals have no minor league system to speak of, so I assume they are just fungible nothing.

I am, absolutely speechless. Honestly, did Bowden make a pact with the devil to save his job or something because this is trade so so lopsided that I'm afraid all the talent landing in Washington is going to disrupt the equilibrium of the universe, create a fabric in space, and a giant black hole is going to be created and the end of the world will be near.

That is the only possibly explanation/fallout of this trade. Everyone better do all they want to do in life soon because its about to be over.

2006-07-13 13:12:33
65.   blue22
Gordon is owed $13.5M guaranteed for the next 2 years. Yikes.
2006-07-13 13:14:40
66.   Jacob L
My cousin writes for "Cheap Seats" and I chatted with Jason Sklar for a while at my cousin's last holiday party. We have daughters about the same age, and as tahoe might say, he's a really nice and approachable guy. That, notwithstanding his ESPN paycheck, should qualify him to make trades for the Dodgers.

I really haven't watched the show very much (apologies to my cousin, who's a truly hilarious guy). When I have, I find it really depends on the topic. Sometimes its really fun, sometimes really off-putting.

2006-07-13 13:15:38
67.   the OZ
63 Wickman is making $5M on a one-year deal in 2006. I imagine that he'd accept arbitration, though, since he's old and gets paid a lot. By accepting, he'd be guaranteeing himself at least $4M next season (the 80% rule), possibly more if they reach an agreement before going to artibtration or he wins the arbitration.
2006-07-13 13:16:00
68.   Jacob L
64 I'm sorry, you're going to have to spell it out for me. You didn't like the trade, from a Reds perspective?
2006-07-13 13:16:15
69.   Linkmeister
The PGA Tour is liveblogging Wie's round:

On the trade: Wait till SamDC hears about it. The shock will cause him to buy season tix for the rest of the year.

2006-07-13 13:18:26
70.   thinkblue0

The Reds got fleeced about as bad as it gets. I wonder if Bowden also poured sugar in the Red's GM's gas tank.

2006-07-13 13:19:19
71.   natepurcell

2006-07-13 13:19:30
72.   Sushirabbit
64 * (see Lebanon)
2006-07-13 13:19:49
73.   trainwreck
Bob Wickman stinks, I want nothing to do with him (making him our most likely trade target). Tom Gordon is good, I would not give up Guzman for him though. Mike Gonzalez is young and full of potential (he needs to cut down on the walks) so I would like him, but once again I do not want to give up Guzman for him.
2006-07-13 13:21:05
74.   thinkblue0

giving up a top tier prospect for a reliever shouldn't even be an option...but sadly, I see it happening.

What else do the Reds have? Can we get Dunn for Izturis? lol.

2006-07-13 13:21:08
75.   Humma Kavula
Earlier this year, I predicted that Cinci would fold like Johnny Chan with deuce-seven unsuited.

Just when I thought I was gonna have to eat crow......

2006-07-13 13:22:07
76.   natepurcell

Phillies need a 3b in the worst way. They can take Aybar for Gordon. I don't really care about Gordon's age. He is durable and he is still filthy.

2006-07-13 13:23:18
77.   thinkblue0

normally I'd agree, but I just don't like what Gordon is owed over the course of the next two years...I'd much rather just pay Gonzalez a lot less to do the job.

2006-07-13 13:23:32
78.   the OZ
74 Yeah, but if you're going to give up a prospect for a reliever, it might as well be for a GOOD reliever with low salary that you have control over for future seasons. Those at least have some value.

This is opposed to the theory of trading prospects for bad relievers that make a lot of money and will be free agents after the season.

2006-07-13 13:24:01
79.   regfairfield
The minor leaguers in this deal:

Bill Bray - 23, could be serviceable, but only pitched 33 innings of pro ball prior to this year, and is at best a middle reliever.

Brendan Harris - 25, Useless utility infielder.

Daryl Thompson - 19, Entering his third season of A ball with good, but not great numbers. Walks way too many people.

2006-07-13 13:24:40
80.   thinkblue0
I got an idea guys:

Kenny Lofton for Aaron Harang.

I bet they do it.

2006-07-13 13:25:19
81.   the OZ
76 Maybe the Phillies will copy Ned and stuff Clayton at 3B and Lopez at SS.

Oh, wait, nevermind...

2006-07-13 13:25:20
82.   Sushirabbit
The worst part of that trade might be that the Dodgers were trying something similar with Washington. Then again, maybe that's the also the best thing.
2006-07-13 13:26:43
83.   thinkblue0
I wonder how long it took Bowden to say yes to this trade.....00007 seconds?
2006-07-13 13:27:30
84.   thinkblue0

agreed. If we're giving up prospects though, I'd much rather give up a couple B prospects for Gonzalez than an A prospect.

Trading for relievers just makes my skin crawl.

2006-07-13 13:28:39
85.   the OZ
Everytime I see the name "Aaron Harang" I think "Aaron Heilman" and get excited, only to be disappointed when I realize that it's only Aaron Harang.
2006-07-13 13:29:13
86.   King of the Hobos
The Reds finally are winning, and they get absolutely robbed by Bowden? Bowden?!? And Krivsky had been doing so well up to this point too (Phillips, Arroyo, dumped Womack quickly). The Brewers, Astros, and Cardinals must be ecstatic right now.
2006-07-13 13:29:18
87.   thinkblue0

Aaron Harang really isn't bad...he'd be a heck of a lot better than BJ.

2006-07-13 13:30:53
88.   Jacob L
When was the last time the Dodgers really, really ripped somebody off? The shoe salesman to Cleveland for Pedro Guerrero?
2006-07-13 13:31:03
89.   trainwreck
Yeah, how come Ned didn't give them Izturis? Royce Clayton makes him look like Cal Ripken.
2006-07-13 13:33:46
90.   natepurcell
Everytime I see the name "Aaron Harang" I think "Aaron Heilman" and get excited, only to be disappointed when I realize that it's only Aaron Harang.

Harang is awesome what are you talking about.

2006-07-13 13:34:36
91.   Jon Weisman
88 - Selling tickets for major league baseball games in 1992?
2006-07-13 13:37:29
92.   trainwreck
Jim Rome just said that 83 year old guy who played in the minor league game yesterday said he would get a hit if he got 4 major league at bats. Rome then said you wouldn't get a hit in 400 at bats in the majors unless your facing Odalis Perez.


2006-07-13 13:38:26
93.   the OZ
BP gives the 38-52 Nats less than 1% chance to make the playoffs. I fully expect Bowden to flip some of these players for guys that can help out next season and thereafter. They're certainly not going to win this year and I expect that at least one of Lopez/Kearns will be a free agent, maybe? The Reds page at the baseball contracts blog is 404ing the bejesus out of me so I can't confirm.

87 Fully agree. It's just that he's not Heilman, who the Mets are wasting in their bullpen.

2006-07-13 13:38:53
94.   Jacob L
91 I'm a sick, sick person, I know, but I really enjoyed some of the games I went to in 1992. For example, the only double header I've been to - part of the double-header-a-thon staged in August to make up the riot games. Good times.
2006-07-13 13:39:18
95.   thinkblue0

Harang is better than Heilman.

2006-07-13 13:40:45
96.   natepurcell

Harang has proven he can be a really good starter, hes under 30 and he has a good K rate. I think hes better/worth more then Heilman right now.

2006-07-13 13:41:02
97.   Jacob L
95 Uh oh. We've got a Heilman/Harang harangue on our hands.
2006-07-13 13:41:05
98.   Terry A
88 - Didn't Dan Evans pull a fast one in one of his deals, maybe with the White Sox? The other team thought they were getting one player, but in reality Evans had offered a substantially worse player with a similar name.

Of course, I want to say this was in a deal for James Baldwin, so it's not really clear exactly which team got ripped off there...

Bob, a little help with the facts and details? :)

2006-07-13 13:43:59
99.   Jon Weisman
94 - I was just teasing. Everyone knows my favorite Dodger game that I went to was Pedro Astacio's debut.
2006-07-13 13:44:02
100.   bluetahoe
In general, the baseball world laughed at Krivsky when he traded Willy Mo for Bronson ArroyO.

I don't see the Krivsky's logic, but Krivsky turned water into wine on his last controversial deal.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-13 13:44:51
101.   gibsonhobbs88
You know we can't fleece any team anymore; Teams always ask for too much when it comes to trades with us and offer up 2nd rate players in return. The Pirates would probably ask us for two top prospects and a position player for Gonzalez, then when the Dodgers decline, trade him to the D-Backs, Giants or the Padres for two Navajo rugs and a utility infielder!
2006-07-13 13:45:21
102.   the OZ
95 96 97

OK, you'll all correct. I hadn't closely looked at their 2006 numbers until just now. Harang is better than I remembered based on his 2004 and 2005 (which was good, not great). His 2006 has been head and shoulders better than any previous ML season. Basically, Harang is doing this season what Heilman did in 2005. Kinda.

2006-07-13 13:45:27
103.   trainwreck
Royce Clayton is muddy, dirt,y protozoan filled water.
2006-07-13 13:46:39
104.   Humma Kavula
103 I'll keep that in mind for the next time I try to drink Royce Clayton.
2006-07-13 13:47:31
105.   Terry A
Wow. In July 2001, Baldwin came to the Dodgers for Onan Masaoka, Jeff Barry (who I believe was the player who caused the confusion), and... Gary Majewski.
2006-07-13 13:49:15
106.   bluetahoe
Gordon's set to make 13.5 million in '07-'08.

Here's a deal I'd do RIGHT NOW. LaRoche/OPerez and Perez's salary for the remainder of this season for Gordon.

I'm willing to give up a future stud just to lose OP and take on a large closers contract who MAY have health issues. It's worth the risk.

2006-07-13 13:49:19
107.   Jacob L
100 105 Maybe the plan in Cincy is to flip Majewski to us for top prospects.
2006-07-13 13:50:06
108.   natepurcell
did the reds not want danys baez? Kearns for Baez would have been amazing.
2006-07-13 13:50:40
109.   trainwreck
Why do we need to worry about Odalis' contract? Playing all these rookies will give us financial flexibility so we do not have to just give players away.
2006-07-13 13:50:44
110.   natepurcell

You are insane.

2006-07-13 13:52:17
111.   bobbygrich
110 You beat me to it. There are so many things wrong in that deal that to talk about it in an intelligent way does a disservice to DT.

(Okay, maybe a little over the top)

2006-07-13 13:53:10
112.   natepurcell

You should have read last night's thread Bobby. That almost made my head explode.

2006-07-13 13:53:14
113.   bobbygrich
108 I still say that Baez is better than what we have in the minors and on most days is the 2nd or 3rd best option in the pen.
2006-07-13 13:55:09
114.   bobbygrich
112 Nate, don't know if you have premium access to BP, Kevin Goldstein is doing positional analysis and in the last 2 weeks has rated Loney as the No. 2 1B prospect (behind Barton) and Dewitt and Abreu as the Nos. 2 and 5 best 2B prospects.
2006-07-13 13:55:19
115.   natepurcell
113 yea but austin kearns is better then baez and if the reds are just giving away quality outfielders for middle relievers, why not take ours :(
2006-07-13 13:57:16
116.   natepurcell

He rated Dewitt second to only Kendrick? wow, I wouldn't even do that.

2006-07-13 13:57:20
117.   bluetahoe
Yeah, LaRoche is going to be much better than Aybar. Scratch that. Izzy will be traded by '07 and I don't trust Aybie's glove.

Replace Aybar with LaRoche and I'd do it. Philly willing.

2006-07-13 13:58:52
118.   Daniel Zappala
The only thing I can think of is that Kearns is a free agent next year? Still doesn't make sense.
2006-07-13 13:58:54
119.   natepurcell
Oh yea Im reading the article now. Even though i dont have a subscription, I am somehow reading the whole thing.
2006-07-13 14:02:36
120.   gibsonhobbs88
The pitcher I originally thought could help us from the Nationals (Patterson) came up with that forearm injury, so that nixes that thought process. More than bullpen help, we really need a legit #2 or #3 starter to eat up 7 innings per start while giving up no more than 3 runs in those 7 innings (on average). Too many of our starters per one of Jon's previous posts average only 6 innings at best per start putting an overburden on an inconsistent bullpen. I think the offense is the least of our problems but if we came away with an extra stick without giving up too much future talent, Laroche, Loney, ect.. that will be okay. But like I said in 101 - teams don't let the Blue get away with robbery anymore. Other GM's will pucker up for Sabean or Towers but not for LA - they don't want us to be successful, believe me! The Anti-LA conspiracy is alive and well with small market Bud at the controls!
2006-07-13 14:06:43
121.   natepurcell
on Abreu.

I might have to eat crow on Abreu. I did not think much of him last year at all and did not think he could make the AA leap. His K/bb ratio last year wasnt very good and his bb rate was super low as well. He was kind of like Matt Kemp last year, although without the obvious power.

But this year, Abreau has really impressed me. He has kept his average up (280+ in the SL is a good avg), he is walking a lot more, controlling the strike zone a lot better, and showing a good amount of gap power. He is a switch hitter who projects to be solid defensively. I'll admit it, he is looking to be a very solid player that I have undervalued in the past.

2006-07-13 14:08:24
122.   the OZ
This whole CIN-WAS trade thing reads like a salary dump for the Reds. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

What was being offered for Kearns last season? And they ended up getting Royce Clayton, master of the perennial one-year contract? They needed him so badly this season that they couldn't just sign him for a million dollars in December?

2006-07-13 14:10:24
123.   trainwreck
What about Hu nate? haha
2006-07-13 14:11:09
124.   thinkblue0
More than bullpen help, we really need a legit #2 or #3 starter to eat up 7 innings per start while giving up no more than 3 runs in those 7 innings (on average).

The problem is that those don't seem to be available. The only starter that I think can be had that might be worthwhile is Willis...but he'd cost an arm and a leg.

Otherwise we're looking at the Livan Hernandez's of the world. And, if that's the case, I'd rather just stand pat than trade perfectly good prospects for a perfectly bad starter.

2006-07-13 14:12:26
125.   thinkblue0

thats what is so mind blowing. If they're gonna deal kearns and lopez, couldn't they have just dealt them for GOOD prospects that are ready to come up a la the Marlins....instead they get Royce Clayton and Majewski who probably could have been had for a nice steak dinner. Makes absolutely no sense.

2006-07-13 14:13:12
126.   natepurcell

Ive always liked Hu, primarily because he is such a defensive asset at SS and he could hit better then izzy.

2006-07-13 14:13:33
127.   Jacob L
Royce Clayton has had some pretty awesome hair styles throughout his career. As long as we're always giving credit for beards, I thought I'd throw that in.

Speaking of which, did I miss any discussion of Brad Penny's new look at the ASG?

2006-07-13 14:14:44
128.   Uncle Miltie
Oh my God. Unbelievable. I'm speechless.

Jim Bowden just made one of the best deals in the history of baseball. Yes, Jim Bowden.

I don't think I could make this kind of deal in a fantasy league while holding someone ransom and getting them drunk.

Coming into this year, Lopez and Kearns each had a little over 3 years of service time. That means that they are under the Nationals control for through the 2008 season! Lopez is a young (deserving) all star shortstop, who won the silver sluggers award at his position last season. He's a 5 tool player (which Bowden loves). Kearns is an excellent player when healthy and will be Alfonso Soriano's replacement. I can't even imagine the type of haul he's going to get if he does trade Soriano.

I bow down to you Mr. Bowden. You have instantly moved up about 15-20 spots in the GM in rankings. Jim Bowden is my hero. Amazing.

2006-07-13 14:14:56
129.   D4P
I don't really enjoy looking at Brad Penny.
2006-07-13 14:16:14
130.   trainwreck
I wasn't sure because I remember you left him and Abreu off our top 10 prospects list.
2006-07-13 14:16:51
131.   Jon Weisman
124 - "Well if it isn't my good friend Mr. McGregg, with a leg for an arm and arm for a leg."
2006-07-13 14:19:15
132.   Jon Weisman
The worst trades in Ohio since the Ted Stepien era?
2006-07-13 14:19:24
133.   underdog
98 I think the Dodgers were also fleeced in that deal though, because they thought they were getting James Baldwin the writer.

Who surely wouldn't have left them as a free agent so soon after.

2006-07-13 14:19:28
134.   Steve
Meanwhile, Cashman is going to sign Fat Toad 2.0. I hope the Tigers can hold it together, because the Yankees really need to get shut out of the playoffs for, oh, the next two decades or so.
2006-07-13 14:22:16
135.   bobbygrich
Wonder where Sam is, maybe he is out drinking, trying to figure out who is impersonating Jim Bowden today?

Some other notes, Clayton is 10 years older than Lopez, Lopez has hit 9 home runs, Royce has none, Lopez has 23 SB, Royce has 8 SB. The only possible difference is that Felipe is not a very good fielder but Royce won't get any better and he is not that much better now.

I am guessing that Ryan Freel will play more OF for Kearns but that is a pretty big loss offensively and adding Clayton makes it even worse.

2006-07-13 14:22:26
136.   Jon Weisman
133 - Frank McCourt, James Baldwin ... who else are we missing?
2006-07-13 14:23:55
137.   the OZ
Anyone else think that shady money changed hands in this deal? If the Reds are looking to dump salary, they might also like some extra money thrown in.

Since baseless conspiracy theories are fun (they've given Milton Freidman a career), I'll propose that Bowden arranged for the Nats to pay the Reds an under-the-table sum that guaranteed he would be able to get good players in exchange for nothing. The lopsided trade would prove to the world that, once and for all, Jim Bowden is a great GM! Everyone wins. Except Reds fans.

Consiracize away!

2006-07-13 14:24:31
138.   Bob Timmermann
Especially since James Baldwin the writer died in 1987.

James Baldwin was great in the "Battle of the PBS Network Stars" though. He was on William F. Buckley's team.

2006-07-13 14:24:54
139.   Jon Weisman
Kent is in today's lineup.
2006-07-13 14:26:13
140.   Bob Timmermann
Milton Friedman is a conspiracy buff?
2006-07-13 14:26:24
141.   bobbygrich
I think had Bowden traded Soriano for Kearns and Lopez, that would have been viewed as a good deal for both sides.
2006-07-13 14:27:21
142.   Terry A
138 - Whose team was Big Bird on?
2006-07-13 14:27:31
143.   bobbygrich
I cannot believe that James Baldwin leaving would be considered a bad thing for the Dodgers.
2006-07-13 14:27:47
144.   the OZ
140 Haha, no, I meant Stanton Friedman. That's what I get for going to business school - confusing economists with UFO nuts.

Huge difference. haha.

2006-07-13 14:28:27
145.   bobbygrich
138 Ahhh SCTV, the best was Rick Moranis portraying Merv and Dave Thomas doing the wicked impersonation of Bob Hope.
2006-07-13 14:29:06
146.   regfairfield
Izturis and Quantrill for Prokopec was a pretty big steal for the Dodgers.
2006-07-13 14:29:06
147.   bobbygrich
139 How dare you bring in Dodger talk to DT.
2006-07-13 14:29:52
148.   bobbygrich
Trading Jason Romano for anything would be a great deal too.
2006-07-13 14:30:41
149.   thinkblue0
Nice to see Kent back in the lineup.

We've all been against getting Soriano for the most part...but let me just throw this out there: if there was a deal centered around say, Guzman, Aybar, and some other prospects for Soriano would it really be a bad deal? Just throwing it out there.

2006-07-13 14:31:00
150.   underdog
136 Umm... didn't they have a wry catcher named Salinger at some point? Um, one of my favorite mystery writers was called Pepe Frias? Er, no, sorry drawing a blank.

Why do the Dodgers keep getting mentioned in these Soriano rumors? Are they seriously interested? Not that he's not a great hitter, but how much would we have to give up to get him is what worries me, and he doesn't, of course, pitch.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-13 14:31:43
151.   Jon Weisman
148 - Jason Romano led to upwards of "1.75."
2006-07-13 14:33:46
152.   underdog
That's actually a pretty good line up we have there today. So good Inside the Dodgers posted it twice, in fact.
2006-07-13 14:34:46
153.   bobbygrich
150 The Dodgers will get mentioned because they have a number of prospects that in the end, they won't be able to keep all of them due to roster limitations, they are 2 playoff races and their GM has already shown a willingness to make a deal. Also being in a big media market doesn't hurt either.
2006-07-13 14:35:08
154.   Bob Timmermann
Not exactly a writer of fiction, but the Dodgers had a Mike Davis and there's a noted writer of L.A. "history" named Mike Davis.
2006-07-13 14:36:46
155.   Jon Weisman
154 - Ah, good one though.
2006-07-13 14:37:33
156.   Jon Weisman
Of course, I'm also rooting for the Dodgers to sign Wayne State first baseman Jon Weisman.
2006-07-13 14:37:34
157.   Bob Timmermann
Just last night I was reading the collected poems of Len Matuszek.
2006-07-13 14:38:05
158.   thinkblue0
it's pretty mind blowing that Martin continues to hit behind Izzy. Guess Grittle thinks catchers are only supposed to hit 8th.

Also, don't like to see Lofton in over Kemp but whatever, can't complain too much about this lineup.

2006-07-13 14:39:38
159.   Uncle Miltie
No quotes from Bowden yet? He probably already started partying. I hope he has a designated driver this time.
2006-07-13 14:42:09
160.   bobbygrich
Jan Murray, Red Buttons, Friars Club population slowly dwindling.
2006-07-13 14:42:18
161.   underdog
Mike Davis works for me. Let's not forget NY Times Columnist Dave Anderson, who had some decent years for LA.
2006-07-13 14:42:35
162.   Terry A
153 - "Ned Colletti, the former assistant GM, pushed hardest to acquire Winn. Colletti is now running the Dodgers, and talk around baseball is that he has been the most aggressive GM pursuing trades over the past few weeks."

Maybe the Dodgers keep getting mentioned because Neddie is really working the phones.

2006-07-13 14:44:34
163.   confucius
Barring injury or trade I think this will be the most commonly used lineup from here on out.
2006-07-13 14:44:40
164.   bobbygrich
161 He was also the player on deck before Vin said "Look whose coming up now."
2006-07-13 14:46:38
165.   Jon Weisman
161 - Which MD?
2006-07-13 14:47:03
166.   Bob Timmermann
And Mike Davis was on base.

It's all come full circle!

2006-07-13 14:49:10
167.   Terry A
Meanwhile, the rumblings in the NL Central continue. Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz reports Cardinals GM Walt Jocketty is "in the bunker," which means he is allegedly working on something so big he cannot be disturbed.

In a related story, Jocketty's previous "something so big," Sidney Ponson, has now caught on with the Yankees.

2006-07-13 14:51:59
168.   thinkblue0

It seems like the the dominoes are starting to fall. It's interesting that teams are making big deals now...usually they wait until a couple days before the deadline.

2006-07-13 14:52:29
169.   Bob Timmermann

Strange things are happening! Ho ho hee! Hee, ha ha!

2006-07-13 14:52:45
170.   RELX
Didn't the Dodgers have a pitcher in the early 80s named Ricky Wright? Richard Wright?
2006-07-13 14:53:32
171.   bonnie
162 Funniest line in that article:

"The Giants offense acts as if it has an enlarged prostate. It scores runs freely on some days. Other times, it comes in fits and starts."

Apologies to anyone that has suffered from that malady. I just found it ironic, given the age of the Giants starting lineup.

2006-07-13 14:56:10
172.   thinkblue0

One thing is for sure: we WILL be making trades. Let's just hope to god we're not trading Guzman for Tyler Walker.

2006-07-13 14:57:38
173.   underdog
Sorry, I meant "The humorous use of the name Mike Davis here is agreeable to me" - the "works for me" phrase could be confusing, I can see that now. ;-)

Hah hah. I'm glad my Dad the Yankees fan is away on vacation - news of them signing Ponson would make him spit out his herbal tea. Guess they really are desperate for pitching, much more so than the Dodgers, even.

2006-07-13 14:57:38
174.   bobbygrich
166 One of the more amazing things during that inning was Mike Davis' walk, he had only 2 home runs in over 300 plate appearances that season and yet he was pitched around, partly because the only guy who could probably hurt the A's in that spot wasn't going play until he stepped out a few moments later.
2006-07-13 15:01:37
175.   bobbygrich
169 Red Buttons' "Never had a dinner routine" courtesy of today's AP wire story.

Abe Lincoln, who said `A house divided is a condominium,' never had a dinner"; "(Perennial presidential candidate) Jerry Brown, whose theme song is 'California, Here I Go,' never had a dinner."

2006-07-13 15:02:48
176.   Sam DC
Wow -- I was stuck out of computer access all day. I put a couple of comments up at The Griddle and a link the roaring multi-kegger that is the Nationals' chat site right now.

One side note, from the Nats chat. One commenter who writes intelligently about the Nationals farm and knows folks working in the minor league clubs wrote these two comments:

"The Daryl Thompson inclusion may be the one thing to put on the backburner for three years down the road. Not promising anything but from what I have heard from folks in/outside the org, he is one to watch."

"Daryl Thompson is a pitching propsect recovering from shoulder surgery. From the folks I spoke with, they think he has a higher ceiling than verts/Balester/Hinckley. But (1) he's in Vermont and (2) TINSTAAPP"

What's kind of odd is guys like this kid and Bill Bray are sort of the folks that the Nationals really are supposed to be acquiring if they have any hope of building from within.

2006-07-13 15:03:28
177.   overkill94
Rotoworld put out its mid-season top 150 prospects today. Guzman again leads the Dodger prospects at #13 along with LaRoche (#17), Loney (#34), Elbert (#37), and Greg Miller (#99). DeWitt seems to be an oversight along with maybe Abreu and Hu.
2006-07-13 15:03:34
178.   bobbygrich
BTW was Charlie Callas on that list of people who made people laugh in seventies.
2006-07-13 15:06:14
179.   thinkingblue

Remind me why Guzman is a top prospect? The only thing impressive about him right now is his 6-6 frame.

2006-07-13 15:07:09
180.   Jacob L
Mike Davis is a "historian" in the same way that Mike Davis was a "slugger." Of course, I did enjoy City of Quartz and think about it every time I'm in Fontucky. And Mike Davis did draw that walk.
2006-07-13 15:08:29
181.   Xeifrank
Today's Dodger Sim:
Dodgers lose the sim game 9-6. Billingsley pitched 4 innings and gave up 3 earned runs and was lifted for a pinch hitter in the top of the 5th, trailing 3-2. The Dodgers came back in the top of the 6th and took a 5-3 lead. Danys Baez relieved Odalis Perez in the bottom of the 6th after Perez gave up a leadoff single. Baez managed to give up a 3 run HR to the Cardinals weak hitting catcher Yadier Molina and the Cards took a 6-5 lead. The Cards scored 3 more times in the bottom of the 7th off of the Dodgers maligned bullpen making it a 9-5 game. The Dodgers scrapped for a single run in the 9th and Isringhausen came in to close the door. The Dodgers did manage to get 17 hits, 13 of them singles and 4 doubles. Furcal and Nomar led the team with 3 hits a piece. The Dodgers managed to keep Pujols and Rolen quiet, but the rest of the team went hog wild. The sim has been wrong alot recently, so let's hope the streak continues and the Dodgers actually win!! vr, Xei
2006-07-13 15:08:56
182.   thinkblue0
What's kind of odd is guys like this kid and Bill Bray are sort of the folks that the Nationals really are supposed to be acquiring if they have any hope of building from within.

True, but it's not as if Lopez and Kearns are old. They're both young AND good. Also, Im sure if Bowden is smart he'll get a really nice haul of prospects for Johnson, Guillen, and Soriano. He's really got a chance to have a Marlins-esque firesale here.

2006-07-13 15:09:20
183.   D4P
Let's just hope to god we're not trading Guzman for Tyler Walker.

I was just thinking the same thing last night, after looking over Tampa Bays' roster.

2006-07-13 15:09:52
184.   Xeifrank
179. Perhaps he is young for his level? Move him out of the infield and one would think his prospect ranking would drop.
vr, Xei
2006-07-13 15:10:51
185.   regfairfield
174 Wasn't the story Eckersley thought he was someone else named Davis (Eric?) so he pitched around him?
2006-07-13 15:12:16
186.   jasonungar05
179 courtesy of Nate from yesterdays thread I belive

Its a list of all the active players that have slugged over .475 in AA/AAA as a 19 yr old in a min of 150AB.

Daric Barton (0.491) 2005 Midland Tex AA
Adrian Beltre (0.581)1998 San Antonio Tex AA
Juan Gonzalez (0.506) 1989 Tulsa Tex AA

Joel Guzman (0.522) 2004 Jacksonville Sou AA

Andruw Jones (0.675) 1996 Greenville Sou AA
Alex Rodriguez (0.654) 1995 Tacoma PCL AAA
Gary Sheffield (0.591) 1988 El Paso Tex AA
Gary Sheffield (0.561) 1988 Denver Amer AAA
B.J. Upton (0.519) 2004 Durham IL AAA
Delmon Young (0.582) 2005 Montgomery Sou AA

2006-07-13 15:12:34
187.   Bob Timmermann
That's the first time I've ever heard that.
2006-07-13 15:15:14
188.   overkill94
185 Davis had a good year in 1987 for the A's with good power so Eck admitted he was more careful with him than he should have been. He talked about it in the Beyond the Glory episode about Gibby's homer.
2006-07-13 15:15:26
189.   underdog
The Tyler Walker talk strikes me as being a little much, even for those who are nervous about Colletti, especially since he could have tried to obtain him when the Giants cut him loose and didn't seem particularly interested (even as an ex-Giant). Trading for Walker and giving up anything more than a package of bubble gum would seem silly (naw, actually that's too much, too), but I guess anything's possible. Let's hope it's just kooky talk.
2006-07-13 15:15:30
190.   Steve
Eckersley would have known Mike Davis given that they played together the year before.
2006-07-13 15:15:59
191.   Jacob L
185 [187} I think the story goes that Eck thought he was facing the Mike Davis who hit 25 homers as a teammate in Oakland in 1987, and not the author.
2006-07-13 15:16:19
192.   Bob Timmermann
188 and 190 make a lot more sense.
2006-07-13 15:16:34
193.   thinkingblue

But he is putting up less than impressive numbers at a hitters paradise in AAA to say the least.

2006-07-13 15:16:56
194.   overkill94
179 Rotoworld has always been a big Guzman supporter, here's what they have to say about him this time around:

"The Dodgers moved Guzman off shortstop during the spring and gave him a callup earlier this season, but they still haven't figured out exactly how he fits into their plans. He needed at least one full year in Triple-A anyway. Guzman will develop 35- or 40-homer power, but he must work on his pitch recognition skills. It might help him progress if the Dodgers put him in a position and keep him there. With Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp looking like they can be counted on as regulars entering 2007, it might be that Guzman will become trade bait as the club seeks to win the NL West. Guzman has more offensive upside than any of the club's other prospects, but he'll probably spend a few years as a low-OBP slugger before fulfilling his potential."

2006-07-13 15:17:30
195.   regfairfield
192 Hey, I got the basic story right.
2006-07-13 15:18:59
196.   Jacob L
190 Didn't help Rickey with Jon Olerud.
2006-07-13 15:19:20
197.   natepurcell
But he is putting up less than impressive numbers at a hitters paradise in AAA to say the least.

Its been half a year, chill out.

2006-07-13 15:20:04
198.   Fallout
172 thinkblue0
183 D4P

You guys should really seek treatment for paranoia.

2006-07-13 15:21:20
199.   Bob Timmermann
For the record, Tyler Walker is out for the rest of the year and in to next season after having Tommy John surgery.
2006-07-13 15:24:18
200.   D4P
Tyler Walker is out for the rest of the year and in to next season

Does Ned know that?

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-13 15:24:41
201.   bobbygrich
197 Tomorrow is John Sicke's comments on the top 20 Dodger prospects, we can view it and see if we agree.
2006-07-13 15:29:03
202.   underdog
199 Ah hah! Good. I mean, uh, not good for him, but good for those people who were worried about that. Of which, I was not one...
2006-07-13 15:32:04
203.   thinkingblue
By the way, what happended to Orenduff?
2006-07-13 15:32:39
204.   natepurcell
By the way, what happended to Orenduff?

exploratory shoulder surgery.

2006-07-13 15:37:48
205.   overkill94
I don't understand John Donovan's mid-season report card

How does a surprising Marlins team get an F? Why do the Dodgers get a C? The Mets were the only team to get an A out of the NL. Seems like a weird grading curve.

2006-07-13 15:39:15
206.   deburns
I agree with the CW that the Reds got fleeced, particularly by the Lopez/hairstyliest part of it, but the Kearns part of it reeks of a flip. Why rent Kearns for the rest of a season why you are out of it? But flipping him for some talent makes a lot of sense.
2006-07-13 15:42:28
207.   overkill94
206 Kearns is under contract through 2007
2006-07-13 15:43:56
208.   thinkblue0
You guys should really seek treatment for paranoia.

haha. Well, when your GM's favorite hobby is giving away prospects for bad players then you kind of have a right to be paranoid.

2006-07-13 15:44:11
209.   regfairfield
The secondary benifit of this trade is that Bowden might somehow think he can contend now, and he won't trade anyone, increasing the merriment that will be had by all.
2006-07-13 15:44:22
210.   blue22
206 - Preparing for a Soriano trade as well.
2006-07-13 15:47:34
211.   Steve
Like most Devil Rays pitchers, Tyler Walker is more valuable on the DL than he is pitching
2006-07-13 15:51:02
212.   Sam DC
206, 207 I don't know if they're right, but the folks in Natsland think that Kearns and Lopez are both under team control through 2008.

Which of course doesn't mean Kearns might not be flipped regardless.

2006-07-13 15:51:49
213.   thinkblue0

I think they both are under control till 2008. Great, great deal for the Nats.

2006-07-13 15:56:07
214.   regfairfield
213 You're right.

Lopez seems to have issues with his defense, so why didn't the Reds move him to second and let Phillips play his natural position? Seems like the same thing the Dodgers did with Jose Offerman.

2006-07-13 15:57:05
215.   bobbygrich
213 Both are arbitration eligible and if they both play a full season, are probably due a raise, Lopez is already making $2.7 MM this year and Kearns is making a little around $ 1.7 MM. Most seem to think that this is a precursor to trading Soriano.
2006-07-13 15:57:45
216.   thinkblue0

the whole deal makes no sense. If they wanted bullpen help THAT badly couldn't they have done better than Majewski for guys like Lopez and Kearns? It really makes absolutely no sense to me.

2006-07-13 15:58:53
217.   thinkblue0
Most seem to think that this is a precursor to trading Soriano.

absolutely. But we've all known from the get go that there was no way Soriano was staying a Nat the whole year.

2006-07-13 15:59:12
218.   natepurcell
Who's going to get a bigger contract this offseason, Carlos Lee or Soriano?
2006-07-13 16:00:46
219.   thinkblue0

Soriano. I think he goes anywhere that'll let him play second base.

2006-07-13 16:01:14
220.   Fallout
208 thinkblue0 kind of have a right to be paranoid.

Good, good. That is the first step of treatment. Admission of a problem.

2006-07-13 16:02:14
221.   thinkblue0

another question, nate:

Where do both end up?

2006-07-13 16:02:48
222.   regfairfield
216 I was just pointing out that if they hate his defense so much, why not just switch Lopez and Phillips?

There's nothing inherently wrong with trading Lopez and Kearns, Lopez is overvalued at short thanks to his non-existant glove and Kearns is an injury risk. It's just that trading them for absolutely nothing is a really bad idea.

2006-07-13 16:04:20
223.   Sam DC
Nationals fans are wondering if the team will trade Vidro and move Lopez to second when (wait for it) Cristian Guzman and his big contract come of the DL next year.
2006-07-13 16:04:42
224.   thinkblue0
I was just pointing out that if they hate his defense so much, why not just switch Lopez and Phillips?

I know, and I agree. All I'm saying is that this deal is obviously for bullpen help...and while Kearns is an injury risk and Lopez doesn't have a glove I still can't imagine that they couldn't have done better than Majewski.

2006-07-13 16:04:56
225.   Michael G
Maybe Larkin is coming out of retirement, making Lopez expendable. Then Krivsky, the genius he is, could fleece Aybar out of Colletti for Majewski.
2006-07-13 16:07:15
226.   natepurcell


soriano to the Angels, 5yrs 65 million

carlos lee to the Cubs, 5yrs 60 million

2006-07-13 16:10:11
227.   thinkblue0

Interesting choice for Soriano...I kind of took the Angels out of it because of Kendrick.

2006-07-13 16:13:20
228.   twerp
GM Nate, if you just can't get that pesky Atlanta GM to leave you alone, offer him Lance Carter for John Smoltz straight up.

That should get rid of him....

2006-07-13 16:13:37
229.   bobbygrich
226 Carlos Lee - Yankees 5 years/65 MM
Alfonso Soriano - NY Mets 4 years /52MM
2006-07-13 16:14:07
230.   regfairfield
I think Lance Carter has a winning attitude.
2006-07-13 16:14:19
231.   bobbygrich
BTW Mets because he will play 2B.
2006-07-13 16:14:27
232.   natepurcell
I don't thik Soriano will care where he plays as long as the Angels show him the money.
2006-07-13 16:17:44
233.   natepurcell

We're discussing Tim Hudson. But he keeps asking for Scott Elbert and I keep giving him the middle finger.

2006-07-13 16:20:42
234.   Blu2
Writing salaries is awkward for me. For hundreds I write $7C; thousands I use $700K. But I don't know what is recognizable and acceptable to everyone when I want to say $13 million. Is it $13M?
2006-07-13 16:22:15
235.   Bob Timmermann
Mega = million = M
2006-07-13 16:25:31
236.   the OZ
Salaries are often expressed as a fraction of Gigadollars:

$Thirteen million = $.013G

2006-07-13 16:28:05
237.   twerp
Someone the other day released a "greatest all-time players" list which I only caught in passing. Can someone enlighten me?

Nosing around Baseball Almanac site, noticed Joe Morgan's picks in various categories, circa 1998. Among them, his top 10 "future stars."

Among those: Nomar #2, Jose Cruz Jr #4....

Vladimir Guerrero

Nomar Garciaparra

Alex Rodriguez

Jose Cruz, Jr.

Derek Jeter

Andruw Jones

Scott Rolen

Edgardo Alfonzo

Shawn Estes

Neifi Perez

2006-07-13 16:28:56
238.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2006-07-13 16:32:34
239.   twerp
Someone the other day released a "greatest all-time players" list which I only caught in passing. Can someone enlighten me?

Nosing around Baseball Almanac site, noticed Joe Morgan's picks in various categories, circa 1998. Among them, his top 10 "future stars."

Notable among those, FWIW: Nomar #2, Jose Cruz Jr #4....the list:

Vladimir Guerrero

Nomar Garciaparra

Alex Rodriguez

Jose Cruz, Jr.

Derek Jeter

Andruw Jones

Scott Rolen

Edgardo Alfonzo

Shawn Estes

Neifi Perez

2006-07-13 16:57:03
240.   ToyCannon
Been a big Denorfia fan for some reason and he'll now be the starting RF. Thought he'd be a better bet as a CF. Looks like the Reds are going after defense and pitching since they seem to have plenty of offense. This trade looks lopsided but everyone seems to be forgetting how many games Kearns has not played in the last 3 years. So far the Red GM has made strange moves that have worked out in his favor so before declaring this trade a fleecing I would wait to see what happens. David Ross, Brandon Philips, and Brandon Arroyo were all brought in on his watch and they have all played key roles in the Reds resurgance. I can even remember when Brendan Harris was picked by BP to be the next Pujols. They have yet to live that down. Bizzare deal but the Red GM has done enough in his short time on the job for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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