Jon, you're spot on.

Also, I'm sure the following from ESPN Insider was referenced yesterday but I wanted to say something about it:

"The Nationals and Dodgers are also involved in serious talks involving Soriano, reports ESPN.com and Scouts Inc.'s Keith Law.

Law reports the Dodgers are making Joel Guzman, 21, available in a potential trade. Guzman, who played in the Futures Game in Pittsburgh, was a shortstop whom the Dodgers have converted to the outfield.

Bowden will send one of his top lieutenants (thought to be Bob Boone) to Tacoma to see Guzman play for Triple-A Las Vegas this week."

If we sign Soriano to an extension, I could understand the thought behind trading Guzman. Still, I hope we keep him. I'd prefer to wait and see how he develops, taking the chance from superstar to bust and anywhere between, than see us trading him now. He's too young and has too much upside to trade. Also, to get Soriano, other prized chips would be included. It's not worth it.

I'd much rather stand pat at the deadline and see how things shake out. I feel a bit guilty, but I really wish Lofton gets hurt and Izturis is traded. That way many of current offensive woes could potentailly be solved from within through Kemp and Aybar. It's so much more exciting watching the rookies play.

1 Definitely second that wish. I like Izzy and offensively Lofton has done a better job than some others I could name, but realistically, upgrades are available in-house.

Flanders needs a mustache sabbatical.

I have less sympathy for the notion that a father should get to be away from work for a longer time than his employer would like when that father is getting paid 7 figures by his employer than when the father is getting paid 5 figures.

Call me crazy, but agreeing to play a game in exchange for 7 figures carries an implicitly higher level of responsibility and devotion than that required by most of the rest of us. "Being there when the team needs you" would seem like a legitimate expectation in exchange for that much money.

the new DT layout makes my eyes hurt

5 - What new layout?

4 - In the nicest way possible, I call you crazy. I honestly don't think you can put a price on a) the first days with a newborn and b) the first days with a newborn while your wife is in the hospital.

Whatever Izturis is being paid, his job is not as important. And he should be shown the faith that he knows what the stakes are in both places, and can make a rational decision.

What would it take it get Hillenbrand? He's got decent pop and I can't imagine he'd cost an arm and a leg, being DFAed and all.

Looking from a far, the Dodgers aren't handling this very well (Colletti-Izzy) JMO.

What new DT layout? </confused>

By the way, Dioner Navarro has thrown out 7 of 14 attempted base-stealers in Tampa Bay. He was 0-for-16 with the Dodgers this season. Perhaps our pitchers do not hold runners on well. . . . And I agree that the Dodgers should leave Izzy alone and let him spend another day with his family.

Maybe he wasn't fully recovered from his injury in Spring Training.

Whatever Izturis is being paid, his job is not as important

I agree. But from the standpoint of the people paying him, it seems reasonable to expect him to be available, especially given all the time he already missed while on the DL. He got paid for doing virtually nothing for a number of months. Realistically, I think this kind of stuff should be negotiated and included in the contract. There should be clear guidelines regarding how much time players get off for illnesses, births, deaths, etc. That way, there would be no ambiguity about how long is long enough and players could forfeit the appropriate portion of their salary if they decide to stay longer than what was agreed upon in their contract.

All of which is not to say I sympathize with the fat-cat owners...

Interesting that you would use that word today, Jon, because Tony Jackson used it yesterday to describe the Dodgers, too.

http://www.insidesocal.com/mlb/archives/2006/07/tony_jackson_de.html

10 -- The talk about Navarro's defense was excellently positioned to be interrupted by Graham Chapman wearing an army uniform.

Meanwhile, back in Chavez Ray-vine:

NC: Camille, I worked all my magic, brought over half the Devil Ray roster, and now we're under .500. The fans will have our scalps! What should we do?

CJ: Why don't you throw your banjo-hitting "third baseman" who just had a new baby under the bus?

NC: Perfect! I didn't sign him anyway! Get Henson on line 2.

6

the Dodger Thoughts layout, you know were you have the blogs, rumors, Here to Zero.

I don't buy into the theory that a large contact implies an unspoken and increased responsibilty. At what dollar sum does a person lose the right to care for his wife, and child during a highly demanding and stressful time such as child birth? This is a game, regardless of how much these men are paid, and regardless of how obsessive we as fans are.

In a time where the Dodgers profess a desire to return the organization to "family and positive values", I don't think we can begrudge our light-hitting utility infielder an extra day with his wife and children. The problem is not that he can get away and we can't. The problem is simply that we can't.

6

perfectly said Jon.

10 - Is that right - 7 for 14? I hadn't known that - thanks.

Does MLB have a policy for child birth? Maybe something similar to the bereavement leave they recently instituted? These types of policies often dictate a maximum number of days a player can be gone before losing pay. Not sure if MLB has one.

At what dollar sum does a person lose the right to care for his wife, and child during a highly demanding and stressful time such as child birth?

And at what point does being away "long enough" become being away "too long"? Should that be left up entirely to the player? Like I said in 12, these issues should be addressed in players' contracts. I guess my primary discomfort stems from the ambiguity that exists regarding how long they can stay away and who should be making that decision. I would be more comfortable if these decisions were made and agreed upon before they arise.

13 - Wow, coincidence. But not a surprising one.

12 - Births - medical conditions in general - are not all created equally. It's inevitable that the amount of time needed would be ambiguous. Plus, like it or not, Izturis was injured in a job-related activity, and that should not be held against him.

Above all, should the Dodgers really think so little of Izturis that they should accuse him of shirking his duties (if that's in fact what happened)? Is that reaasonable, and is that constructive? For all his flaws, has there ever been reason to doubt his work ethic?

I thought I read last week where the Dodgers EXPECTED Izturis to be gone for THREE TO FOUR days. It's only been three ...

20 - "Your contract says you get two days off."

"My wife is in the hospital. I need a third day."

"Per your contract, that's going to cost you $20,000."

If that's what you want, we can agree to disagree. For me, that does not seem like a good policy.

Steve nailed it again. Classic Han Solo to Chewie situation.

"It's not my fault. It's not my fault"

15 - Are you talking about Dodgerdugout.com? Because that has nothing to do with Dodger Thoughts.

21
No, I don't think it's reasonable (or constructive) to accuse Izturis of shirking his duties. I got the impression during his rehab that he was highly motivated to return ASAP, and if I'm not mistaken, his return happened earlier than was initially expected.

Do you have to keep playing to be eligible for the Hiding an Injury Award? I thought Gagne won that two years running.

I am confused by the whole Izturis situation. It is very unusual for an organization to blast a player publicly in a situation like this. The only logical explanation I can think of is that Izturis said he would be back by yesterday and then either just didn't show up or didn't give the team enough advance notice that he wouldn't be there. My guess is that there was a communication breakdown.

I do think it would make sense to build a set policy into baseball contracts. At my job, employees get a week's paid paternity leave. Everyone knows that. It's possible you could negotiate more in special cirumstances -- or take unpaid leave, perhaps -- but there's no confusion about how much time the employer will give you.

23
But why would it be a bad policy if the players agreed to it? That's my point: the policy (whatever it is) should be mutually agreed upon. If the players think it's a bad policy, don't agree to it. Once you've agreed to a policy, abide by it.

That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

7 This Hillenbrand you speak of, how about some Alomar, some cash and a PTBNL?

14 -- The talk about Navarro's defense was excellently positioned to be interrupted by Graham Chapman wearing an army uniform.

Am I missing something? (It wouldn't be the first time.)

To be perfectly honest, when my kids were born, I came back back to the office the day after the birth. What exactly can you do while your wife and kid are in the hospital? I took my paternity leave and vacation for the two weeks after they came home from the hospital, when my help was really needed.

27 - You're right. I should change "this year's" award to "this month's" or "this week's"

29 - The whole policy negotiation seems completely unnecessary. You only need to have it if you think your player is going to take advantage of you.

As far as I'm concerned, three or four days of paternity leave after a Cesarian section is simply sick time - no debate necessary.

{25}

I guess I am, I'm confused yet again.

The only quote attributed to Flanders, in the Henson piece, is: "I'm assuming that to miss four days there is some complication." Maybe Henson got the story wrong; maybe Flanders was trying to express concern, inexpertly. This doesn't make sense (to me) as a PR move, so, it seems like it'd have to be either an idiotic thing for anybody to make public, or a failed attempt at something else.

At what point do the Dodgers become sellers as opposed to buyers in the next couple weeks?

I am debating where I stand on the issue right now.

The whole policy negotiation seems completely unnecessary

Maybe so, but the current situation suggests that it would perhaps be worthwhile nonetheless. At the very least, it would presumably make GMs less likely to publicly question the behaviors of their players, provided they were abiding by the agreed upon policies. When there are no policies, it's not clear who's right and who's wrong. I ultimately don't care what the policies are: I just think it would make sense for them to be in place. You yourself are suggesting implicit policies when you talk about "paternity leave" and "sick time." Why not specify and formalize those?

32

Izzy was taking care of his 6 year old at home.

32 Wouldn't the situation have been different if your kid was born in another state far away from where your job was, as is the case here?

35 - That thought occured to me.

36 - They won't be sellers. Whether they find anything worthwhile to buy is another thing.

30 - Is Hillenbrand significantly better than Aybar supplemented by Saenz?

32 - If you were ready to go back, that's great. But presumably, the Izturis family is split between the hospital and home, and the mother is at limited capacity, so I guess the dad feels he has a role in this particular situation.

If my daughter had been left at home with childcare but without a parent after my son was born, I'd have been uncomfortable. I don't presume that everyone's the same, but I presume that some are.

Sure lets speculate on what we don't know but I did think about this regarding Izzy, if his wife had a scheduled C-section as opposed to one that had to be used due to the other medical conditions, assuming the child could have been born a week earlier, I winder why he did not schedule the surgery during the All-Star break or during the last homestand or again all things being equal, during this upcoming homestand.

The Colletti quote I read in the Times seemed, in that context, to be a somewhat snarky criticism of Izturis. But on second read, I think it's possible that Colletti was honestly trying to give Izturis the benefit of the doubt, and the Times took it (or presented it) differently.

This is, after all, the same Colletti who soothed a savage Odalis Perez recently. Why would he go out of his way to poke at Izturis, who has been a good egg to this point?

40 Jon, what about Hillenbrand at third, Aybar at second, and Saenz still supplementing first/third? I'm not sure I want to assume that Kent will be back in prime condition.

I'm pretty sure the CBA for baseball has no provisions for missing games because of childbirth.

There is "bereavement leave" which is pretty much open-ended, but that requires death or illness. Something to feel bereft about.

I don't know if baseball players can ask for leave under terms of the Family and Medical Leave Act.

42|35 I like to follow Andrew around and basically echo everything he says.

I'm that edgy.

Totally off topic
Wife observes, "Why are Billingsley's arms hairless? Does he shave them?"

She's got me. Any of you guys notice and/or know why?

44 I'm pretty sure that FMLA applies to everbody. It basically just guarantees that you won't be fired for taking leave. If your employer wants to dock your pay, that's fine, so long as its consistent with policy and the treatment of other employees.

In the back of my mind, I'm hoping that the Dodgers are anxious to get Izzy on the field, because their anxious to trade him, but I guess Ned doesn't want to do that. Other GMs are probably thinking, if given the choice between 3bs that are fighting with their teams over parenting issues, I'll take the one that can hit homers over the one with the Gold Glove.

So, instead of being indicted today, Barry Bonds is going to not be indicted today. But maybe someday. . .

http://tinyurl.com/jwr2l

48 Waiting for grand juries to come down with indictments this year has been, like, so frustrating . . .

but I don't care that much about the Bonds case.

By the way, are we required to pronounce the headline the official Vin Scully way? (dis-com-BOOB-u-la-ted)

I'd much rather stand pat at the deadline and see how things shake out. I feel a bit guilty, but I really wish Lofton gets hurt and Izturis is traded. That way many of current offensive woes could potentailly be solved from within through Kemp and Aybar.

I 100% agree.

48
I believe I'm not going to be indicted today either.

But the day is young.

I've still got some wire fraud schemes going.

51 There are probably more productive things to wish for than your .300 hitting centerfielder to get hurt.

Admittedly, he's unlikely to continue that pace and he fields center about as well as I do. Still...

"Other GMs are probably thinking, if given the choice between 3bs that are fighting with their teams over parenting issues, I'll take the one that can hit homers over the one with the Gold Glove."

Unless they're traded for one another, which isn't unthinkable. The Jays have allegedly been seeking a shortstop.

46

I have a friend that's an abbot runner & he shaves his legs & arms so I wouldn't find it suprising.

abbot runner

Ah, from the mouths of non-native English speakers.

31 He was making a Monty Python reference. MPs Chapman would sometimes come out and interrupt a sketch, playing a stern Army comamnder who felt a sketch had gotten too silly. "Right! Stop that! Stop that at once. This has gotten silly. Started off as a nice little sketch about a milkman but now it's gotten silly."

And now for something completely different:
A General Manager with a piano up his nose.

55

To me, that was unintentionally hilarious.

Don't change. I knew what you meant.

As an aside, one of my brothers had his wedding performed by an abbot.

Gettting back to the Kent injury situation, I think this had something to do with a) Kent thinking he could play through it and b) the Dodgers playing the Cards.

But as others have said, I give him credit for saying he needed to rest even though he actually swung the bat well on Monday night.

I also thought Jon's comment about J.D. Drew was ironic considering all the criticism he has received in the past regarding his threshold of pain and injury, for him to be playing with an injury would be a complete reversal of his reputation.

Someone mentioned this during the Rob Neyer chat and I think that might be a possilbility, look for a deal between Houston and the Padres for Morgan Ensberg.

There are probably more productive things to wish for than your .300 hitting centerfielder to get hurt.

300 average doesn't mean anything to me, its the bottom half of a 700 ops that sticks out for an outfielder

Uh oh, looks like I've just been a handed a bill of indictment for seven violations of admiralty law.

Honest, I thought that treasure was mine!

56

how do you spell that word, I was thinking of going with abbit I'm hopeless I know.

63- Avid.

63
It's actually "avid", but I can see how if you're using your own pronunciation how you got to your spelling.

Remember this is English. We spell things funny. And pronounce things strangely.

If it's any consolation I always seem to get the "b" and "v" pronounciations mixed up speaking to Spanish speakers.

63 I think you're looking for "avid". It's an understandable mixup given the similarities between the English/Spanish B's and V's.

Do I get a Bronze medal for 66? Does Andrew get to wear the yellow jersey for the rest of this thread?

65 and 66 had more depth and we explained our answers in full.

Andrew is so edgy in the way he carries himself that he doesn't feel the need to explain anything.

63 - Just know that you're among friends.

67 - He will, but only if he can catch the running abbot.

The word you were looking for was av...oh, never mind.

(That was for you, Jon)

59 - Rather than ironic, it's more like, "giving the people what they want."

I have a German friend who's forever transposing his Ws and Vs. I don't care what kind of a jerk it makes me, Darth Wader never stops being funny. Ever. SEH-puhl-WAY-duh is pretty good, too.

71 - As in, "you asked for it." For whatever reason, in the past, it couldn't be that Drew was actually hurt or knew what it would take to get well. He had to be a lazy bum. The world forced his hand. And except for the fact that he's still moderately productive, it's sad.

Unless he isn't hurt, and this is just a terrible slump.

72 I have a Danish friend that does that to.

I figured an abbot runner was if Who and What executed a perfect hit and run. ;)

Maw-wage.

Mawwage ith what bwingth uth togevvah today...

(Had to be done.)

Coming to a town near you someday, ads on the front page of the sports section?

http://tinyurl.com/radyz

Ned seems to have little patience with players who aren't totally committed to the team. The Dodgers were the most vocal about not wanting their players to participate in the WBC and basically forced Martin and Robles to withdraw by subtly threatening them that they would be at a disadvantage if they were not in spring training.

Trade the one new father for the other new father. Perfect fit, they get the slick fielding SS they need and we get someone who can actually hit more then a single. Aybar will be needed at 2nd base for a little while.

I was a Lofton fan and his offense has been fine but his defense leaves me appalled. Can't recall ever watching a lousier CF then Lofton this year play for the Dodgers on an everyday basis. So I 2nd the motion that he either find his way to Seattle and ruin their pitching staff or pull that groin in a very harsh manner. Without JD providing any power, we can't continue to carry Lofton and Kemp with all his warts or even Repko should be manning CF for us.

I honestly think JD Drew's in the "Can't win" camp with a lot of people so this fits in perfectly with that. Doesn't mean none of us should be frustrated if he is just slumping and not playing hurt (I, too, suspect the latter) but it's likely even if he plays his way out of it (and I am hopeful that will happen) he'll still be persona non grata for a lot of people - especially given how much he's paid. (Of course, if that was our only criteria, there'd be a lot of persona non grata... er, personas non grata?)

Oh wait, there are. Everyone except Russell Martin and Takashi Saito, and Mariano Duncan's hat.

The Wall Street Journal is going to put ads on its front page in September.

Tease on SI.com:

"The frustration is mounting for the majors' most underachieving ballclub."

Without cheating, guess the ballclub.

79
I believe it would be "personae non gratan"

65

everybody has that problem Bob (spanish & Eglish speaking people) if you say 70 & 60 in spanish they almost sound the same.IMO.

66 - and also the phonetic similarities between ending a word with a "d" or ending it with a "t".

83
I just try not to say words with a v or b in Spanish.

I never have 20 of anything is Spanish. If I don't have 19, I skip straight to 30.

79 Personae au gratin?

81 A's? Cubs?

73

I'm thinking he's hurt, & dosn't wanna tell anybody, but that's just me.

81 86 I thought it was the Cubs too, I will say I did not even think of the team in the article.

81 Houston? Phillies? Cleveland?

86
"Personae au gratin" is in the cookbook "How to Serve Man".

After all, it was the early 1960s. People loved food with lots of cheese back then.

After reading the latest Shea comments in the Griddle, I think he and Toby Hall would get along grandly on the bench.

Since it wouldn't be up here if it wasn't something stupid, I'll say Toronto.

If you're going to say Ned Colletti's job is only to do the kind of stuff Depodesta would have done, he has for the most part been a failure. Nomar would probably have been retained (though, granted, probably not as a first baseman - probably third), Furcal would not have been signed, Guzman likely would have started the season at short (keeping his trade value up). As for getting Ethier, I wouldn't put that one past DePodesta. The biggest difference, apart from a preference for old guys in bad trades, is that Terry Collins would be the manager instead of Grady Little. So he's a step down there.

But Colletti was supposed to be the GM who was good with all the other aspects of being a GM. He was supposed to improve communication within the club. He was supposed to be able to deal with players better. Instead, he has been one of the biggest jerks of GMs in baseball, apart from the Blue Jays' GM ("our 3-4-5 hitter are killing us") and Jim "Drunk at the Wheel" Bowden.

Perez was moved to the bullpen because McCourt was furious and Colletti could not be reasonable. Now Colletti is mad at Cesar Izturis, because he is missing 4 games, despite the fact that he got Rafael Furcal because he didn't even think Izturis would be able to play ever again! He's panicky, making a desperate trade to acquire Mark Hendrickson instead of capitalizing on Dioner Navarro's value, and he still refuses to admit that the Danys Baez trade was awful.

Colletti should be fired, no question. He has only made the team worse, as he kisses his San Francisco championship ring.

Hey, the real fat tub of goo was just traded to the Braves.

82 - Does anyone remember this exchange from Taxi? Bob? Steve?

"How are the potatoes au gratin prepared?"

"With cheese."

"Fine. I'll have the potatoes au gratin with cheese."

91 If Hillenbrand had done that to the American flag, he'd be the lead story on SportsCenter and people would be getting ready to string him up. But it's Canada, so nobody really cares.

93
If that is all it takes to fire a GM then I expect most teams would be replacing GM's about every 6 months. For the record Nomar wasn't
"retained" he was signed as a FA just like Furcal.

Closer Bob Wickman traded to Braves for Sally League (Low A) prospect Max Ramirez, who was selected as an All-Star at catcher. Ramirez, .285/.408/.449, had 17 doubles and 9 home runs in 267 at bats. He is 21, so he is a little older for his competition at Low A.

Wickman has a one year deal at $5 million.

Wickman is no longer available, so we dodged that bullet. The Braves acquired him for catcher Maximilano Ramirez.

81 So it's not the Dodgers?
Honestly that description could apply to a lot of teams right now (and it could have applied to a score of different teams a month ago) but if it's not the Cubs I would have guessed the Indians.

95 What does a yellow light mean?

81 I'm going to guess the Yankees because, you know, they're not in first place.

93 - This is more of a reflection than just a rant. I will also note that before the season, one of the things Colletti said was that he admired was the way Jeff Kent plays through pain. At his age, Jeff Kent might as well be Jeff Treadway when he plays through pain.

96I think I need to move to Canada they sound like my kind of people. To bad Vancouver likes Cricket more then baseball.

101 Slower

101 continued. That is my favorite Taxi episode. I was in the hospital when I saw that and nearly fell of the bed.

92 - Houston is the team. I was surprised; I'm not saying it was stupid.

93 Tell us how you really feel. ;-) So you have an ear inside the Dodger office, I presume, and have seen firsthand how Colletti has communicated? The fact that Odalis Perez went on an emotional rampage to me doesn't exactly prove how poorly Ned has communicated, and it sounds like he and Little handled that situation about as rationally as it could have been. He certainly hasn't been perfect, I'll grant you that. Also a lot of people thought Izturis wouldn't play until July at the earliest, if that; his recovery speed was pretty miraculous. I'd but Colletti in that "damned if he does/damned if he doesn't" section alongside Drew. And again, I'm not a huge fan of everything he's done, either, believe me. I still have my doubts. Just that your comments seem a little harsh.

Perhaps a nice winning streak will cure all of us of these feelings. ;-)

I would think the Indians would get more then Max Ramirez.

101 "Slow down."
Jim: "What... does.... a... yellow... light mean."
"SLOW DOWN!"
"What....................... does..........."

Classic.

{105] Slow down.

I know, the first time I saw that, you could not help but bust up and they just that joke go on and on.

Rev. Jim remains one of the great characters in television history because Chris Lloyd remained true to the character all during the run.

honestly, has the price of middle relievers flucuated that much in the last week? I mean, the reds gave up two starting 26 yr old mlb players for 2 middle relievers and then the braves only give a 21 yr old "catcher" in low A for a "closer".

*Listed position, does not showcase true ability.

interesting, then i tried to put the "*" symbol, it bolded everything in between.

well there goes that.

Amusing tidbit from Jerry Crasnick on ESPN:

Sometimes it's the extraneous stuff that gets people's attention. Hillenbrand raises exotic animals in Arizona, and he tends to describe behavior that some might consider offbeat with brusque or cryptic responses.

Case in point: One day last year a Toronto reporter spotted Hillenbrand walking through the clubhouse with an industrial-strength case of Spam. The reporter naturally wondered why, and asked Hillenbrand as a casual conversation starter.

"I was picking some up for someone," Hillenbrand replied, and went on his way.

Like Jeff Kent, Hillenbrand has a touch of the loner in him. Like Kent, he also has difficulty keeping his mouth shut at times. That's a big reason why he's a man in career transition today.

97 - lousy English language. I meant that with the same meaning as retaining an attorney, and you picked up what I meant.

If an important reason why he was hired was leadership, and he starts getting panicky and irrational, I think that's cause for concern. The biggest reason they don't fire GM's that easily I think is that the new GM wouldn't know the club and would do something stupid.

Firing is probably a bit too drastic, and it may be best to just have him talk to Grady Little so he can relax and think straight.

106 - Yeah, that's an all-timer.

105 - The correct response, and this is very important, is "Slow down."

81

I cheated, the Astros (but I thought the Dodgers instantly)

what would it take to get Aramis Ramirez (sp?)

112 Also remember that the Reds got their "closer" for an under achieving, oft-traded minor league pitcher not too long before trading the two 26 year olds for middle relievers.

112 The Reds trade is widely considered jaw-droppingly stupid. I wouldn't necessarily use it as a benchmark by which to measure the value of middle relievers.

I think "Taxi" went downhill when Randall Carver left the show.

118 - Bobby Hill, but you also have to take Kenny Lofton and Jose Hernandez.

Well, that's what Dave Littlefield asked for.

120

The benchmark for stupidity has been set. And records were meant to be broken.

You do the math :)

112 - It was the Reds' way of acknowledging that they don't have good pitchers.

As far as the Jays and Hillenbrand are concerned, it seems in the words of actor Strother Martin "What we have here, is a failure to communicate." Hillenbrand felt slighted that no one from Jays management congratulated him on his adoption and then his manager reams him out in front of his teammates. Jays management feels he is a cancer in the clubhouse which is somewhat contradicted by Vernon Wells. Trading Izzy for Shea makes some sense as the Jays are terrible defensively in the infield. As long as we don't have to throw in a additional player or prospect.

121 Hah. Absolutely. Right up there with Timothy ("Spearchucker Jones") Brown on the first season of M*A*S*H. The show never recovered after that.

91 Bobby Wheeler: Mental illness or narcotic addiction?
"Reverend Jim" Ignatowski: Now that's a tough choice...

121 - You can be the first to so vote, though he was definitely asked about!

http://jumptheshark.com/t/taxi.htm

125 But like Milton Bradley, storm clouds seem to follow Hillenbrand around.

Is he really that much better than Aybar to make it worth putting up with his crap?

Sorry, but you got me started on one my favorite shows.

Alex Rieger: Jim, when are you finally going to have some pride and stand up for yourself?
"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: August!

"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: I wonder about things, like, if they call an orange an "orange," then why don't we call a banana a "yellow" or an apple a "red"? Blueberries, I understand. But will someone explain gooseberries to me?

"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: [as he hands out invitations] Bobby, do you spell your name with one "o" or two?
Bobby Wheeler: One.
"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: I'll get it right next time, "Booby".

Alex Rieger: Jim, when I said you were a flake, I meant you'd done some weird things.
"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: Name one.
Alex Rieger: You lived in a condemned building for five years.
"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: You're confusing flakiness with style!
Alex Rieger: You kept a horse named Gary in your bedroom.
"Reverend" Jim Ignatowski: Not everyone has a guest room, Alex.

Did anyone else notice that the IMDB changed its design today?

Well, if you look now, you will notice so I don't know how this question can be answered.

You can just rent him and try him out. You don't have to sign him to a long term committment. Maybe the two loners can neutralize each other on the bench!! I just don't want the Blue to package great prospects for a short term rental which might be the case if you want Soriano. I realize Shea will now be with his 4th team in 6 years, so yes there are red flags with this guy, but he does hit and has some pop in his bat, so if it only causes us Izzy, I might go along with it! In a dream world, I would rather get Halladay or Vernon Wells for Izzy and a prospect, but we all live in the real world, LOL!

I would put Taxi alongside "Barney Miller" and "NewsRadio" as three shows that never really got their due, all three shows revolved around a workplace and they were well written and performed.

I believe I saw where Newsradio is going to be on Nick at Nite, glad to see they are replacing Full House.

129
No, I'd rather go with Aybar/LaRoche/Guzman/Saenz/Izzy

Barney Miller/Taxi good times, good shows, good actors, good writers.

But from what show would you have heard this exchange:

"You know what really scares me?"
"No, what?"
"Tap dancing."

Anyone remember the show "Good and Evil" from the early 90s? I think it got cancelled before it even completed a full season, but I remember it being very funny. There was a blind character who was always tripping over things (that wasn't really what made the show funny), and I think some opposition to the portrayal of said blind character is what led to the show's demise.

137
I remember the show, except you used the adjective "good" to describe it, so that confused me briefly.

136 Hi Bob.

135-I don't know Laroche is a solution for this season, I wouldn't want to rush him beyond getting the usual September call up provided his shoulder is healthy. I was only suggesting Hillenbrand over a more costly alternative should they choose to make a trade. My first instinct is not to trade, let this year play out and make adjustments to the roster in the offseason, preferably SP first!!

138
I used the adjective "funny".

On the topic of the show mentioned by D4P, what happened to Margaret Whitton. She had a lot of film credits for a while and then ... 1994 and nothing since.

133 - I think Taxi and Barney Miller got their due - I don't know that they still get their due.

141
I was even more confused!

142 - For that matter, where in the world is Carmen Sandiego?

Oh, wait ... I remember now. sad.

143 However, I do think that "Taxi" stands up better as reruns (maybe the years of it being on KTLA makes me think so), Barney Miller was very much a product of its time and because it often involved social situations to be woven into the stories, it might play as well as others of that time period.

Great TV debates.

Ginger vs. Mary Ann
Lynne Thigpen vs. CCH Pounder

The centerpiece of the Reds-Nats fiasco just gave up the go-ahead run in the 10th today.

How could Majewski and Bray net two fine talents while Bob Wickman got a fringe prospect? Bowden must have dirt on Krivsky.

The Cubs are overachieving. Who knew they'd be so good?

Make it two runs (technically), another run just came in after he was removed.

139 Not only was that a greeting but it was also my answer.

147 First Marilyn Munster or Second Marilyn Munster.

Wilma or Betty

Terry Farrell or Nancy Travis (for Jon)

Apparently we're on a word usage kick today:

http://www.linkmeister.com/blog/archives/001990.html

During today's White Sox/Tigers game, Jim Leyland was quoted as saying that it is untrue that the White Sox win by playing "small ball."

Don't tell all the media guys who love scrappy play.

Does anybody seriously prefer Ginger?

153 Anyone who says the White Sox are winning by smallball this year needs to be severely beaten.

155 I'll nominate Joe Morgan, even though he may not have actually said that this year. I don't know. I haven't read it.

Ginger does not appeal to the subset of people who hang out on the Internet a lot. She's too intimidating.

Even Ozzie Guillen doesn't think the White Sox play little ball.

157

I don't think its that, I just think Mary Ann has alot more to offer.

So Mary Ann would be a five tool "girl next door"?

Todd Jones sure does live on the edge these days. Here are the 3 outs he recorded for a 1-run save today:

- A. Cintron flied out to deep left center
- A.J. Pierzynski hit for C. Widger
- A.J. Pierzynski flied out to deep center
- B. Anderson flied out to deep right

160

yup

160
A five-tool "girl next door" would seem to be a good match for a five-tool "librarian"...

But Dawn Wells is 67 now...

5 librarian tools
1. Shushes
2. Shushes for power
3. Speed look-up
4. The peer-over-the-glasses move
5. Blogging

Jason Phillips is back in the majors! He replaces Shea Hillenbrand on the Jays roster.

Have you checked next door for other five-tool girls?

Favorite sitcom library moment or at least related to a library.

"Let me tell you something, funny boy... You know that little stamp? The one that says New York Public Library? Well, that may not mean anything to you, but that means a lot to me. One whole helluva lot. Sure, go ahead, laugh if you want to. I've seen your type before -- flashy, making the scene, flaunting convention. Yeah, I know what you're thinking... Why's this guy making such a big stink about old library books? Let me give you a hint, junior. Maybe we can live without libraries, people like you and me.... Maybe. Sure, we're too old to change the world. What about that kid, sitting down, opening a book right now in a branch of the local library and finding pictures of pee-pees and wee-wees in The Cat in the Hat and The Five Chinese Brothers. Doesn't he deserve better? Look, if you think this is about overdue fines and missing books, you'd better think again. This is about that kid's right to read a book without getting his mind warped. Or maybe that turns you on, Seinfeld... Maybe that's how you get your kicks... You and your goodtime buddies... I've got a flash for you, joy boy. Partytime is over."

165
I don't do 1 or 2

You left out:
1) Makes up signs with euphemisms on them to tell people not to step in the fecal matter on the carpet

2) Fixes computer problems by the time honored method of turning the computer on and off

168
That character was based on a real person, who left before I started here.

Now, we just use a collection agency.

168 BTW Bob, do we have library cops?

I believe that might have been the longest monologue in the series history certainly the longest by any guest performer.

171

Not in that sense.

There are security people who do what security people do.

I always liked the idea of "goodtime buddies." I could use some right now.

169 re#1, Seriously? Maybe I shouldn't ask.
re#2 - I'm sure you get called on to fix computer problems because you are a blogger. Reminds of the Jimmy Fallon computer guy character. Actually, though, I've been having a lot of success lately with the time-honored whack-the-tv method.

166

I'm actually very happy for him.

168 Got any Folgers freeze dried crystals?

174
Stop by and I'll show you the spot.

And it was human!

And not from a baby!

172

stand around & do nothing?

Given the scattershot nature of this thread, I don't even think this is OT. I have only lived in LA for 18 years, so it is only now that I understand the reference in Cheech & Chong's "Basketball Jones" to winding up in the popcorn machine.

178
You must know some of these people then.

Philip Baker Hall is a god.

Dusty hates pitchers. I don't understand why he doesn't just take a gun with him to the mound and shoot them right there.

177 One of the great joys of working downtown is that you never know what people are going to do. Still and all, we don't usually end up with poop on the floor.

180

come on! you know they do nothing right! :o)

181

why would you say that Marty?

One of the great joys of working downtown is that you never know what people are going to do.

That's for sure. I was nearly run down in a crosswalk today by a guy on a bicycle. He came out of nowhere.

185 For Bookman

For Sydney in "Sydney" or "Hard Eight"

For Floyd Gondolli in "Boogie Nights"

and Jimmy Gator in "Magnolia"

187

his character was sick (the real sick) in Boogie Nights (I just remembered who he was)

Based on this year's stats, Izturis remains a better option over Hillenbrand at 3rd.

Shea:
rate2 at 3rd - 76 (!) but in only 17 games.
warp3 - 2.4 in 80 total games

Izzy:
rate2 at 3rd - 112 in 20 games
warp3 - 0.9 in only 23 games.

Hillenbrand has historically been a decent thirdbasemen, but something is amiss when the Blue Jays decide to start noted lead glove Troy Glaus at the hot corner the majority of the time.

187 He was also great as Nixon in that Altman film whose name escapes me right now.

I see almost dead people.

http://tinyurl.com/m8tqg

192

I would think he could have afforded a better car than a 1995 Taurus.

Whoops, it was a 1995 Saturn!

142 -- On the topic of the show mentioned by D4P, what happened to Margaret Whitton. She had a lot of film credits for a while and then ... 1994 and nothing since.

IF it is the same Margaret Whitton, she's read a lot of books on CD by Phillip Margolin over the past few years, but no acting credits since 1994. She was certainly excellent in "Major League" as the woner of the Cleveland franchise.

193/194 - I had the same thought, but didn't want to offer such a Defameresque critique.

Whoops, it was a 1995 Saturn!

The Saturn is his DUI car.

Who lives in La Cañada and drives an 11-year old Saturn?

198 - Shaft?

My plan if I ever get stopped for a DUI is to put my cat behind the steering wheel.

I've been told that this plan has several flaws.

I've been told that this plan has several flaws.

And claws...

The top 10 most violent children's games

http://tinyurl.com/qz67c

No. 1 is "old friend" smear the queer.

202
"Wow. What a treat this one is. It's got it all. Relentless chasing, brutal tackling, rampant homophobia. For many children, this is their first brave step towards hating and persecuting gays. Sort of a junior hate crime training camp."

Heh heh.

Plaschke can't figure out how FIFA suspended Zidane for 3 games even though he is already retired.

Jason Grimsley was suspended for 50 games by MLB.

The logic is the same.

191 is "Secret Honor."

Only 329 votes on IMdB... guess nobody's seen it.

205 Of course, Plaschke and logic don't go hand in hand.

The suspension is mostly symbolic, but Plaschke should know better. Chances are the guy won't play another world cup, but ya never know.

Why will it get better? It could get worse.
If Martin is really hurt (and these wrist injuries seem to be serious for Dodger players), Kent could be out for awhile, Nomar seems to have stopped hitting, Drew has had a less than mediocre season since opening day and doesn't look to be about to turn it around, and the majority of the pitching stinks, why should this team do any better than .500?

I have high hopes for the future, but feel that this year's team is no contender, even within the division. I see no help on the horizon, except the same crapola that Colletti has patched together so far.

203. I would agree with that one if I even knew what a queer was when I played the game.

209
I think most of us had no clue. "Queer" was just the word you used for your friends when you wanted to mask the fact that you actually liked them.

Yeah, at the age when I was playing that game I don't think I knew what the word meant. That came a couple years later.

208 Yes, Drew is slumping. Whether it's because he's hurt or not, he's slumping. But his slump still has him at an OPS of .829 (career OPS is .900). .829 and excellent defense might not be worth $11M, but it's hardly "less than mediocre." And he just might improve on that before the season is over.

209 I had the same thought. At the time, i just thought "queer" meant "weirdo." By time time I learned the modern meaning of the term, I was well past my "smearing" days. That doesn't mean it's right to use that name for the game, but it's probably a mistake to call the kids themselves homophobes.

194 My first car was a 95 Saturn. Maybe it was my car. It might the car, because it made me drive home after I had a few beers with my buddies, while in the Navy. Ah, the foolishness of youth.

When I played "smear the queer," I always thought it was simply for rhyme. I excelled as the queer. It usually took three guys to bring me down.

Gosh, that sounds so bad.

Growing up in El Paso, we also played "Mexican rules football." Basically, it was football without any restrictions on the number of forward passes on any given play. It's funny that "Mexican" was a synonym for "no rules," and most of the participants were Mexican-Americans.

OT - something I meant to bring up yesterday or the day before. Vinnie commented (correctly, I think) two games ago that all of Stephen Drew's throws to first had been high, and that it was a good thing he had a tall first baseman to flag them down (Shawn Green that day, but Tony Clark and Conor Jackson are in the mix too).

Most of Furcal's errors have been high throws too, and while Nomar has saved him from a few others, I wonder how many fewer errors Raffy would have with a taller first baseman. Nomar is an athlete, but he's short for the position. His glove on groundballs is terrific, but he can't do anything about throws he can't reach.

Sure, Furcal has been disappointing defensively, but it's mostly throws, and I wonder if Nomar has made him look worse than he should look.

When we were, little my cousins and I played a game in which my uncle (only 7 years older than me) would hurl us like we were the hammer in a track & field competition. When we landed, we were supposed to freeze in whatever position in which we came to rest. All non-frozen players would then decide, in a group, which animal the "frozen" statue most resembled.

Wow. That seems really weird now that I've typed out the rules.

216
I posed that same question a while back. Does "ability to reach throws above one's head" show up in any of the fancy defensive metrics?

218 - I would think it shows up as much as "ability to dig throws out of the dirt."

Why will it get better? The Polyana view:
1. Billingsly is starting to pitch as expected and might settle in as a nice number 4 for the rest of the year.
2. Hendrickson will shut down Arizona and outduel Webb as we start our climb back up the ladder. He will be solid as the number 3 option and as Navarro struggles to post a 600 OPS this trade will end up being a good one.
3. Lowe will lose July in several weeks and right his ship.
4. Sele will at some point lose his ship and OP will step in and be in the rotation for the rest of the year.
5. Tomko is going to excel in the bullpen thus giving Broxton some rest and thus allowing him to be more effective.
6. Furcal is already starting to heat up and August will be his turn to carry the offense.
7. JD Drew was not hurt but was only in the worse slump of his career and typically players who come back from that kind of slump go on a major destruction path and he carries the offense for the rest of the year.
8. Repko comes back and gives us a good partner to platoon for Lofton and to play CF for Defensive purposes.
9. Kemp rejoins the team in a few weeks and as Ethier cools down Kemp heats back up.
10. Nomar stays healthy, cause when healthy he hits.

208
That view is more likely but what fun is it being so negative in July. Were not Cub fans, were Dodger fans or is all this negativism from bandwagon Dodger fans who don't understand the price we had to pay to win that 88 World Series. The 20 years won't be up until 2008 which is nothing compared to the price the Cubs had to pay for their last championship.

219
Which begs the question: Does "ability to dig throws out of the dirt" show up in any of the fancy defensive metrics?

For first basemen, it's probably the thing most considered. Rate2 is, at its heart, range factor (with a whole bunch of adjustments) putouts and assists drive the stats. Since probably 90% of first basemen putouts come on caught throws, the first baseman who can catch the most will look the best.

218 One of my minor quibbles with Win Shares is that the defensive equation for first basemen should have included a component for the number of throwing errors committed by his infielders. That's pretty much the best way to measure the ability to catch high/low throws.

It can be skewed in individual seasons if you have a Steve Sax on your team, but over one's career those things even out, and I think it's probably a pretty good indicator of a 1Bman's defensive prowess.

216
That is just bizarre logic. Maybe the real answer instead of replacing the shorter 1st baseman is to have your SS make a decent throw to the 1st baseman. The other 28 SS in baseball can do it, so I expect our 13 million SS can do it.
How many throwing errors has Furcal made since June 1st?

This would be why Nomar has looked so smooth with the glove, yet he has a rate2 of only 100. I don't know if Dewan's system tracks caught throws, but it would explain why Dewan really likes Nomar, and rate2 thinks he's average.

"Would" should be "could" there. It would be sort of interesting to see the first baseman ranked by height.

222
So, does that mean Rate2 makes assumptions about which throws a first baseman "is expected to catch" and which he's "not expected to catch," and then takes "points" away for those throws that are not caught but "should" have been?

John Dewan's +/- system evaluates scoops and whatnot. Erstad, for example, is supposedly great at saving errors with his ability to scoop balls.

On the flip side, do shorter first baseman have any easier time handling low throws...?

228 You know who was great at that (and almost nothing else defensively)? Eric Karros.

227 I'm not entirely sure (they just gloss over it in Baseball Bbetween The Numbers) but its basically putouts+assists with several different adjustments.

Jays management feels he is a cancer in the clubhouse which is somewhat contradicted by Vernon Wells.

One team's cancer is another team's AIDS...

Errr.. wait thats not right.

230 - And Garvey too, right?

If we can get Cincinnati on a bit of a losing streak, we could get the NL Wild Card race completely under .500.

50-46 Cincinnati
48-47 San Francisco
47-47 Arizona
47-48 Los Angeles

234
We'll do our part...!

In the interest of being bored at work, I can confirm that yes, Nomar is tied with three other people for shortest first baseman in the majors.

224

I'm with you on this one Cannon.

According to Rosenthal, the Padres have decided to target Beltre as their new 3B.

238 I can't imagine that the Padres have much that the Mariners would want in return, except to take Adrian's salary. The Padres don't have much room in their budget for players, anyway, so to make the finances work they'd have to send a big salary player in return. I can't see the benefit to the M's.

I have no idea which current Padres the M's would want. The Padres don't have any prospects, either, except #Bs Antonelli or Henley and neither of those guys is a top prospect (rated well below LaRoche, for example)

Has Rosenthal ever been reliable?
Unless the Mariners eat much of Beltre's salary, I'd think that would be the last place he'd end up.

Beltre isnt a sabermetric type of player.

239 - I know DePo isn't in charge, but that would be weird to see his new team take on Beltre at a contract he didn't want to offer when Beltre's performance has fallen off 2004 levels.

Alderson + DePo >>>Kevin Towers

238 Oh crap, I hope he's wrong. I'd hate to have Beltre return to the NL, to the same division, and then go back to his ways of a couple of years ago, especially terrorizing the Dodgers. (Okay, that's worse case scenario, but still... I can see it happening.) When he's in Seattle, I can actually still root for him. I still miss Beltre despite the fact that he's overpaid, wouldn't have deserved even the contract the Dodgers offered, and is obviously erratic offensively.

Yeah the more I think of this, and given your comments above mine here, this is probably just another case of Rosenthal needing to put something down other than random drool marks.

Garvey and Furry would be an interesting combo.

241 Agreed. But it's worth noting that Beltre is [at least financially] more attractive now than in 2005 because his average salary for the remainder of his contract isn't so extravagant (it's comparable to the middle Drew at about $.011-.012G) since he had a frontloaded $.017G 2005 season.

Sorry if someone already posted this amidst the discussion of Shea Hillenbrand (and the Rev Jim Ignatowski), but I though Tom Singer's post on MLB Blog "Reality Check" about Shea H was worth a read:
http://realitycheck.mlblogs.com/

223 - in the absence of more data, it's hard to know how a system based on box score data could arrive at a difference between a robot who can always throw where the first baseman is standing and a robot at first who can catch anything thrown by the shortstop.

243 - nobody's pulled a Nancy Kerrigan to Beltre's left ankle yet, so even if he does end up working for the Padres, he's hardly a big threat.

224 Oh, please! Don't hyperbolize!

There's nothing random about Rosenthal's drool marks.

246 For the love of all that is holy, please don't write contract details in gigadollars. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. (Grabs his knees and rocks himself in the corner)

250
How about we go the other way and express contracts in terms of mills?

224 That is just bizarre logic. Maybe the real answer instead of replacing the shorter 1st baseman is to have your SS make a decent throw to the 1st baseman. The other 28 SS in baseball can do it, so I expect our 13 million SS can do it.

Talk about bizarre logic. How do you know the 28 (29, actually) other SS can do it? Because their throws are caught? Yes, thank you, of course we'd like every SSs' throws to arrive exactly 6 feet directly above first base, but many MANY do not. I'm not impugning Nomar's athleticism or effort or talent. In fact, I'm sure that these things make up for his lack of size on some poor throws, as, for example, when he leaves the bag to snag a throw in the baseline, and tags the runner. But for some of those, a guy 6'5" could just keep his foot on the bag and reach. When a similarly poor throw would pull Nomar off the bag in a direction not conducive to tagging the runner, he's out of luck, and an E-6 is the result, whereas again, the taller guy could just reach in that direction to make the out.

The only way to know would be (1) to actually chart the trajectory of every throw by every SS to see if a Nomar-sized first baseman could have caught them ir (2) to have all those guys throw to Nomar. My point of departure was Scully saying that Drew was benefitting from Green's reach.

My logic is sound. Other things equal, infielders will benefit (be saved more throwing errors) by a taller first baseman. SSs most of all, because they make the most throws and the hardest ones.

Now, of course, a 1bman with a stone glove might still be worse than a guy with a great glove but less wingspan. I think that the citation of the Rate2 numbers make my point - Nomar is great with the glove and has really good range fielding balls, but catches fewer (likely somewhat errant) throws than the average first baseman, who is taller.

If Furcal's errors were from booting balls, or from throws so bad that no one could be expected to flag them down, then Nomar's height wouldn't be relevant. But that hasn't been my impression, and if it's been yours, then my logic is not bizarre, just beside the point.

Speaking of robots and randomness, here's a question tossed out at a party the other night - I think by somebody ticked off by an umpire's inconsistent strike zone. The question was, with technology the way it is these days, and umpiring about as bad as ever, why can't we replace the home plate umpire with a machine that consistently calls the same strike zone, consistently calls balls and strikes?

One answer was because people like the human touch and this would make the game colder, and a little unpredictability makes it more interesting. Which is a good answer, and certainly we never want anything that will slow the game down or malfunction.

Or have a breakdown and toss a coach's hat into the stands.

But still, every once in awhile, when an umpire really is all over the place or blind (and not in the way some fans think an ump is blind as they watch from their seat in the upper deck), I can see wanting this.

252

JMO, but if you can't throw a baseball to a first baseman no matter how tall/small he is, to me that's just not excusable.(my two cents)

I've wanted an electronic strikezone for a long long time. I think the quality of baseball would be improved drastically.

I actually made the frowned-upon 1995 Saturn joke at (gasp) another website earlier today.

I prefaced it with the lesser joke, "He drives?"

252

The throw from shortstop to first base is a pretty complicated event if you break it down. Like many things when you look at it closely, they're are a bunch of things that have to go right for everything to work out for the defense.

I think that focusing everything on the height of the first baseman, which is just one of numerous variables, isn't going to work.

I'm taller than Nomar Garciaparra. And I'm certain he will catch more high throws than I will. If you stood both of us 150 feet away from Rafael Furcal and told him to try the ball just a little over our heads, I would miss more balls than Nomar.

255

don't get me wrong JoeyP, But Furcal makes some of the weirdest throwing errors I've seen.(maybe it's just me)

255 Instead of writing out lineup cards, managers would feed scantron sheets into a slot behind home plate. They just need to be sure to fill in the correct bubble completely with a #2 pencill, and to make their mark heavy and dark.

257

you think Izzy would make those errors that Furcal is making? (be honest)

Grady decided to shake things up. Drew's batting 2nd, Ethier cleanup, Aybar 5th, and Cruz 6th. Martin's still batting 8th.

259
But if you don't erase completely, players will be batting out of order.

I wonder if Grits has pulled the plug on KLofton in CF? Webb is right handed, so we know Cruz isnt in there for his bat.

Good to see Martin back.

you guys think there busting a Beltre on Drew? I kind of like this line up.

Height isn't everything. Dick Stuart was 6'4" and couldn't catch much of anything at first base.

I've always wanted to see Drew in that 2-spot (assuming that doesn't mean any banjos get pushed up in the 5-spot). This might be a good spot for him until his power returns.

266
I'm certain that I would field better than Dick Stuart now.

His fielding has really deteriorated in the last four years.

254. You're missing my point. I said that if Furcal's throws were that bad, then the height of the 1bman would not matter. IOW, I agree with you, but that's not the question. The question is whether Furcal would have fewer errors if he had a taller first baseman. Since I don't think that most of his bad throws have been THAT bad, I think he would.

257. I said "other things equal." So, with due respect, Bob, I imagine that you and I and the rest of us fans (especially those of us who are older than Kenny Lofton) are nowhere near the league of any of these professional athletes in terms of skills.

Yes, it's a complicated event, but once the throw has been released, it's much simpler. The first baseman has to catch it and either tag the runner or touch the bag.

It is true (but tautological) that a first baseman with all of Nomar's skills plus an extra 8-10" of reach (extra height plus extra wingspan) will catch more balls than the current Nomar. Of course, there's a tradeoff. Most first basemen don't have Nomar's skill level. So my question was, how do we assess the tradeoff solely in terms of saving teammates from errors?

Most teams, in the 32 or so years that I've been paying attention, seem to think that the extra height is worth a little bit of athleticism, or, which is the same thing when you're allocating a fixed pot of resources, they seem to think that the benefits of more athleticism are greater at other positions. I think that's right.

Most people here have agreed that Nomar is "wasted" at first base, given his great glove and athleticism. We could put him at 3b, and get a big, if unathletic, bopper for 1b. My only addition to that question was whether his extra "skills" are sufficient to make up for his below-average size on the single dimension of flagging down somewhat (but not dramatically) errant throws.

All things considered, if first base is keeping Nomar in the lineup, then any extra errors he allows might still be worth it. My main point was to say that while Furcal is not as great as, say, Izzy defensively, he's not helped any by having a smaller target to throw at. Far from making him look good, Nomar makes him look worse.

And, to the delight of SportsCenter-hypnotized fans, Nomar can make himself look great and make Furcal look worse at the same time. He can leap for a throw, and catch it, but come down too late (E-6) where a taller guy would just stay put and reach up for it.

For an analogy, look at WRs in football. There are some freaks of nature like Randy Moss and Terrell Owens who are both huge AND extremely skilled. But most teams have to assess a tradeoff between size and skills. Both choosing either implies a tradeoff. Whereas a tall guy who drops balls doesn't make his QB look bad, a short guy who catches anything he touches, but requires more precise throws for completions is likely to hand a lower completion percentage on his QB.

So, to repeat, my question is NOT about Nomar. It's about Furcal. He wouldn't look so bad defensively if he had 5-6 fewer errors because a taller guy could have reached balls Nomar could not.

268 I did use the past tense.

In other news, Generalissimo Franco is still dead.

265 you guys think there busting a Beltre on Drew?

When did the Dodgers acquire Tyler Houston?

I just learned that Wickman has been snatched by the Braves. And the Braves gave up basically nothing for him. The Dodgers couldn't beat a class A catcher/DH? Somebody like Delwyn Young who is a buried prospect anyway could have beaten the Braves offer.

Nice way to do pick up a quality reliever, Colletti.

Interestingly, the tallest Dodgers who aren't pitchers are Alomar and Hall who are both 6'3".

The Dodgers are going with a small lineup. They should press more and run the break.

When did the Dodgers acquire Tyler Houston?

So that's who Roy Smith was scouting...

Sam, Just got on line for the first time today. Thanks for the Nats article in the last thread. Sounds like the Mayor is pouting becasue his pals didn't get the team. Alas, what would our Nation's Capitol be witout political wrangling and shicanery (sp?).

No baseball for me tonight. Off to my daughters play at Pepperdine, Beauty and the Beast. Have a good night all!

258. Bluebleeder87
Furcal makes some of the weirdest throwing errors I've seen.(maybe it's just me)

This is an interesting statement, and one that would make everything I've argued irrelevant if true. If I may ask, what do you mean by "weird throwing errors, Bluebleeder?" I've seen every throw he's made as a Dodger, but it's certainly possible you're seeing things I'm missing. Please elaborate.

260. Bluebleeder87

you think Izzy would make those errors that Furcal is making? (be honest)

No, but that's not a fair way to assess Furcal. Izzy is the best defensive SS I've seen since Ozzie Smith. Furcal isn't as good, but neither is anyone else currently playing.

Your question, of course, IS fair if the point is to criticize the contract bestowed upon Mr. Furcal, but here, I think the difference between expected and actual offensive production (an upgrade from Izzy, but not a big enough one?) is larger than the difference between expected and actual defensive efficiency.

this kind of bumbed me out Bob.

The trade of Mike Piazza to Florida was motivated by FOX's desire to start cable channels in L.A. and Miami.

The contract Mike Piazza turned down from the Dodgers in 1998 ($13.5 million per year), was worth more than the one he ended up signing with the Mets ($13 million).

Ps I hate how things work out some times.

276

up the middle defense is a huge part of my enjoyment of watching baseball, I know that Furcal's hitting ability is the reason he's here. but what gives me kicks is defense, but that's just me.

PS I love hitting as well don't get me wrong.(matter of opinion I guess)

278. Hey, I agree with you. I love watching great IF defense. And for that reason, I really love watching Izzy play. But I also love watching my favorite team win, and Izzy contributes less than Furcal does, when both offense and defense are considered (not $10M more per year more, but that's a different question). So, what sorts of "weird throwing errors" do you mean?

272-

You want Bob Wickman? Really?

"Wicky", Rex Hudler's preferred nickname for him, has these numbers.

4.18 ERA
11 BB/ 17 SO
1.43 WHIP

Pretty mediocre. Just to compare, Danys Baez has these numbers.

3.91 ERA
11 BB/ 27 SO
1.26 WHIP

I'd say, in a rational, intelligent marketplace, (which baseball admittedly is not), a A player is a perfectly acceptable bounty for Wickman.

I don't know how to explain it bro, I just don't like his throws to 1st some times, I mean COME ONE! some of the throws he makes are really bad no?

279

in all fairness I'll defend Izzy at any cost!

They coulda just kept Dan Kolb.

272 The Braves bullpen's been far worse than the Dodgers (by relative comparison) and Wickman's really fallen off. I just don't see how he would have helped the Dodgers any, even if it was just for a tossed in minor leaguer. I wish him the best, but wouldn't expect it. I'd rather the Dodgers take a stab at someone like Gonzalez of the Pirates or the Twins' Kyle Lohse (who, as I mentioned earlier, has a bad ERA this year but really good stuff, higher ceiling than someone close to retiring like Wickman). In short, I'm fine with it.

283
A year or so ago I installed a Nintendo simulator on my PC so that I could play RBI Baseball. Some clever computer geeks have created additional "ROMs" for the game that include many more teams than were included in the original version. Dan Kolb is on one of the teams, and his fastball tops out at a hilarious 55-60 MPH.

248 Shouldn't that be Tonya Harding rather than Nancy Kerrigan?