Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

So, What's New?
2006-07-21 09:18
by Jon Weisman

I'm 4, for one thing. Hard to fathom.

What else is new? In four years, the Dodgers have developed a farm system. So as insipid as things might look right now, I believe in the future. It could all unravel, but for now, I believe.

Comments (242)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-21 09:30:00
1.   Jon Weisman
I think this is usually Marty's department, by the way, but one more thing: Tiger Woods is back.
2006-07-21 09:39:18
2.   Bob Timmermann
Congratulations on turning four! I hope Dodger Thoughts is fully toilet trained by now.
2006-07-21 09:41:36
3.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Happy birthday!
Which exclusive preschool will you enroll DT in?
2006-07-21 09:43:27
4.   underdog
Congrats! We'll have to take you to Chuck E. Cheese to celebrate.

Meanwhile, what is the general DT consensus on a pursuit of Greg Maddux - would he be worth giving up a prospect for? Will the Dodgers wait to see how the next week or so plays out as for whether they look like contenders or pretenders? I'd love to see Maddux in a Dodgers uniform and think he'd solidify the rotation but dunno what the Cubs are asking for in return these days. Hopefully not as much as there were.

2006-07-21 09:45:11
5.   Bob Timmermann
Dodger Thoughts strikes me as a Montessori school material.
2006-07-21 09:47:41
6.   D4P
Shaping up to be a great weekend, with Tiger and Ernie in the final group tomorrow. Will Tiger run away with it? Will Ernie be able to overcome his fear of Tiger? Stay tuned...
2006-07-21 09:50:14
7.   unmoderated
hey, congrats.
2006-07-21 09:53:18
8.   Sam DC
Happy blogiversary.

From Wikipedia, a few other July 21 events, including the first robot-related death in the United States.

1865 In the market square of Springfield, Missouri, Wild Bill Hickok shoots Dave Tutt dead in what is regarded as the first true western showdown.

1873 At Adair, Iowa, Jesse James and the James-Younger gang pull off the first successful train robbery in the American West.

1925 Scopes Trial: In Dayton, Tennessee, high school biology teacher John T. Scopes is found guilty of teaching evolution in class and fined $100.

1931 CBS's New York City station begins broadcasting the first regular seven days a week television schedule in the U. S.

1969 Neil A. Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin become the first men to walk on the Moon.

1970 After 11 years of construction, the Aswan High Dam in Egypt is completed.

1983 The world's lowest temperature is recorded at Vostok Station, Antarctica at −89.2°C (−129°F).

1984 In Jackson, Michigan, a factory robot crushes a worker against a safety bar in apparently the first robot-related death in the United States.

Also, CC Sabathia, Kellen Winslow, Brandi Chastain, Jon Lovitz, Marshall McLuhan, Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam), Ken Starr, Paul Wellstone, John Negroponte, Janet Reno, Norman Jewison, Don Knotts, Edward Hermann, Isaac Stern, Ernest Hemingway, and Alexander the Great were born. And Garry Trudeau.

Charlie Paddock and Jimmie Foxx both died.

And it's Guamanian Liberation Day.

2006-07-21 09:53:49
9.   Bob Timmermann
I think that Mr. O'Malley's Formative School for Young Blogs would be a nice fit for Dodger Thoughts as a preschool.

It meets in Lot 28 of Dodger Stadium.

2006-07-21 09:54:50
10.   unmoderated
ok, CC Sabathia, Don Knotts and Janet Reno walk into a bar...
2006-07-21 09:55:17
11.   thinkingblue

Where would he pitch? Would he take someone's spot?

Penny? no
Lowe? no
Billz? NO!
Sele? perhaps
Hendrickson? maybe

But, where would we put Sele or Hendrickson? Won't we have enough starters on our active roster when Tomko comes back? Shouldn't our bullpen be made of... relif pitchers?

2006-07-21 09:56:34
12.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
My GF and I went to last night's game - ugh. Had Ethier not caught Shawn Green's bomb in ther 7th, I might've exploded in a Donald Duck-like rage.
1. There was far too much swinging at the first pitch, mostly from Furcal and Garciaparra. I know it's a little late to ask Nomar to change his spots, but Raffy has to take at least a few pitches. The worst was Webb's four-pitch 6th inning: Furcal with a first-pitch grounder to short; Drew singles up the middle on a 1-0 pitch; Nomar, on the first pitch, grounds into a 6-4-3 double play.
2. If JD Drew has lost his power, then batting him in the 2-hole makes sense. Good hustle on his 8th-inning grounder, where his brother double-clutched for the error.
3. Hendrickson, through four innings, had 10 ground-ball outs and two strikeouts. In the fifth, he got a pop-up and two outfield flies, which to me raised a red flag. Two batters into the sixth, Carlos Quentin took H'son deep to put the game away.
4. Either looked good, scorching two hits. However, I thought he could've caught Jackson's RBI single in the first.
5. Aybar had the at-bat of the game, drawing a seventh-inning walk off Webb despite falling behind 0-2.
2006-07-21 09:57:01
13.   Bob Timmermann
Ken Starr, Paul Wellstone, John Negroponte, Janet Reno

That would have been an interesting room to be in back when Wellstone was still alive.

How do they know which day Alexander the Great was born on and then convert it into our calendar? That seems like a lot of guesswork. My half-assed knowledge of ancient history leads me to believe that record keeping wasn't that accurate.

I mean we're not even sure when Rafael Furcal or Albert Pujols were born.

2006-07-21 09:57:02
14.   the OZ
So Dodger Thoughts is 4 in people-years, but how old is it in blog-years? 28?
2006-07-21 09:58:55
15.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
the first robot-related death in the United States
The "Three Laws of Robotics" patch was installed the next day, I hope.
2006-07-21 09:59:28
16.   Sam DC
13 I knew some killjoy was getting to get wise about Alexander the Great.
2006-07-21 10:02:13
17.   Jon Weisman
10 - You do the math.
2006-07-21 10:04:01
18.   Sam DC
There are people in Quees who have now gone five days without electrity, and Con Edison does not know even know what has caused the blackout.

I would not have thought that was possible.

2006-07-21 10:06:36
19.   Bluebleeder87
DT, beware of the bullies!
2006-07-21 10:10:37
20.   Bob Timmermann
If Don Knotts walks into a bar with me, I'll be wondering why St. Peter took on such a bizarre visage.
2006-07-21 10:12:57
21.   Penarol1916
I miss bluetahoe.
2006-07-21 10:13:27
22.   Gen3Blue
GSRB interesting report.

I hope we are in a short but brutal bad streak that sometimes happen for no good reason.

2006-07-21 10:17:30
23.   Bob Timmermann
I think my brother in St. Louis is still without power, although that was because of a strong storm that hit the area.

St. Louis in late July without AC is not a lot of fun.

2006-07-21 10:19:28
24.   dodgerscool

I really don't see a problem with a bullpen that is mostly composed of starting pitchers. Oakland has a lot of starting pitchers in their bullpen and i think it's been fine. Relief pitchers are mostly bad pitchers anyway.

2006-07-21 10:20:45
25.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
When I was living in Orlando two years ago, following Hurricanes Charley, Frances and Jeanne my apartment was something of a refugee camp for friends without AC.
2006-07-21 10:22:51
26.   D4P
St. Louis in late July without AC is not a lot of fun

We try not to use ours (to save energy, combat pollution, etc.), but you pretty much have to in the evenings or else you won't be able to sleep. There are plenty of summer days where I literally drip with sweat from just sitting around the house.

If I ever invent an environmentally-friendly air-conditioner, I'm going to call it "A.C. Green."

2006-07-21 10:29:34
27.   Marty
Tiger Woods is back, and Els' got him. (What movie reference is that?)

As D4P said, it will be fascinating to see if Els is up to the pressure.

2006-07-21 10:42:57
28.   D4P
Ernie has seemingly never recovered from his 2004 season, when he coulda shoulda woulda won all 4 majors and ended up winning none of them. Course, his knee injury hasn't helped, but I think his mental injury was more damaging.
2006-07-21 10:44:06
29.   Bob Timmermann
I have tickets for tonight and tomorrow's game. The Team Croatia shirt is being reserved for Saturday's game when I have lucked into a seat in the picnic benches along the third base line.

So I should be able to be spotted from there.

Don't adjust your TV sets.

2006-07-21 10:46:51
30.   D4P
For the benefit of those of us who won't be able to watch the game, perhaps you could post a photo of The Team Croatia shirt...
2006-07-21 10:49:39
31.   Bob Timmermann
I will be bringing my camera to the game.
2006-07-21 10:51:09
32.   D4P
You're the man.
2006-07-21 10:56:00
33.   dan reines
Mazel tov. Happy blogday, Jon.
2006-07-21 10:56:11
34.   Sam DC
My wife grew up in a smallish town in Wisconsin -- Oconomowoc. Going there for the first time for a week in August. We also have 3 days in Miwaukee where I've never been.

What should I do in Milwaukee (with kids)?

Have tickets for the 8/24 Brewers/Rockies game.

2006-07-21 10:57:05
35.   Bob Timmermann
And we should all give thanks to the good people of Honeywell.

It's a pretty good outfit to work for, yah>
Yah, if you're an engineer, you can do worse...

2006-07-21 10:57:22
36.   Robert Daeley
Is it too much to hope for moire patterns on screen? ;)
2006-07-21 10:59:25
37.   Bob Timmermann
Leave Milwaukee for starters. Why don't you just drive to Chicago? The Field Museum and Shedd Aquarium will keep kids happy for HOURS.

Don't get lost on the four freeways that cross Milwaukee.
1. The North-South
2. The East-West
3. The Miller Park
4. The Airport

The Cream City is not exactly brimming with stuff to do. Maybe you can go up north to the Dells.

2006-07-21 11:05:24
38.   Marty
Nice Fargo reference.
2006-07-21 11:05:30
39.   JMK
Congrats on the site Jon. It's an awesome community. What makes you "shifty J"? I don't know you except for what you write here, but you don't strike me as shifty.
2006-07-21 11:07:04
40.   Jon Weisman
39 - The committee has ruled the nickname ironic.
2006-07-21 11:07:45
41.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
37 - When the Brewers play the Nationals, is it Cream City vs. Chocolate City?
Mmmm... Fattening.
2006-07-21 11:08:49
42.   the OZ
Shifty, per

(1) Having, displaying, or suggestive of deceitful character; evasive or untrustworthy.
(2) Distinguished by frequent changes in direction: shifty winds.
(3) Able to accomplish what is needed; resourceful.

2006-07-21 11:08:54
43.   dzzrtRatt
Milwaukee might be a bit slow, but it's the source of at least one trendy food: Brats. So you can eat a lot of those, and then find a place that will mail frozen brats to your house.

However, there are two awful things to eat in Milwaukee: Beef bacon and cheese curds. Not only do they taste terrible, but they make everyone in Milwaukee fat.

Milwaukee is actually pretty pleasant. We west-coasters often forget it is a "coastal" city. You can get on a boat and float around Lake Michigan, admiring the Milwaukee skyline.

2006-07-21 11:09:20
44.   Penarol1916
37. The Dells is horrible, I hate that place almost as much as Branson, Missouri. The drive to Chicago is a pain, Milwaukee is actually a pretty decent city, although it's a better drinking town than kid town.

The zoo is decent and supposed to be free. There is also a town very close to Milwaukee where they have an Old Fashioned Circus along with a circus parade and whatnot. The lakefront is pretty decent too.

2006-07-21 11:09:46
45.   thinkblue0
is izturis back tonight? Is he going to play in favor of the obviously better Aybar?

As far as point. I still want to win this division, but sadly we've managed to already get enough average pitchers on our roster. If anything, we need a bat. It's too bad we gave Kent that extension because I'd love to nab Soriano and sign him to an extension in the offseason.

2006-07-21 11:09:50
46.   Sam DC
In case anyone else was wondering:

Milwaukee is known as "Brew City" for all the beer, that's a given. But "Cream City?" The cream in question is not whipped and served inside a pastry at the State Fair, but rather in solid, brick form.

Cream City brick emerged from Milwaukee's kilns in the 1830s. The relatively high concentration of lime and sulfur in the clay found in the Menomonee Valley region created that creamy hue. Locally-produced, it became the least expensive "utility grade substance" of its day, making it a primary building block for churches, homes, factories and businesses for the next 70 years.

Much, much more at

2006-07-21 11:11:38
47.   Penarol1916
43. I always liked cheese curds, they tend to taste fresher than cheese. Of course, a lot depends on the milk that was used to make the curd.
2006-07-21 11:11:54
48.   Sam DC
will definitely be getting onto the lake.

This intrigues: "There is also a town very close to Milwaukee where they have an Old Fashioned Circus along with a circus parade and whatnot."

Thanks all.

2006-07-21 11:12:49
49.   Marty
I did not like poutine, the Canadian version of cheese curds the one time I had it. Tasteless and phlegmmy.
2006-07-21 11:12:52
50.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
47 - They squeak when ya eat 'em!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-21 11:13:08
51.   dzzrtRatt
Jon, congratulations on your 4th anniversary.

So, if you were to guess today, how long do you think you'll be doing Dodger Thoughts?

Could this be a lifelong thing? Will I be putting comments on this site when I'm 90? Will we all be together, arguing over who predicted that Cody Ross and not Barry Bonds would break Aaron's record? Will JoeyP ever find a GM he likes as much as he liked Paul DePodesta? Will the Los Angeles Bob Timmerman Tostitos Central Library dedicate a wing to your writings?

2006-07-21 11:14:08
52.   Marty
Sam, hopefully it will be a little cooler by the time you get there. I was in Chicago last week and it was miserably hot.
2006-07-21 11:17:12
53.   King of the Hobos
45 He'd probably play in favor of Martinez/Saenz. Aybar would play 2B/3B, whichever one Izturis doesn't play.
2006-07-21 11:17:20
54.   Penarol1916
52. It finally started to cool down today, this weekend should be in the 70's.

48. I'll ask my wife about it, she took her sisters there are few years ago, said it was amazing.

2006-07-21 11:18:51
55.   Sam DC
Hey thanks Penarol.
2006-07-21 11:22:08
56.   thinkingblue
congrats on the 4th

And only Bill Plaschke can find some way to say that a player with a .989 OPS has lost his impact.

2006-07-21 11:22:49
57.   Jon Weisman
51 - "So, if you were to guess today, how long do you think you'll be doing Dodger Thoughts?"

This is it. This is it.
This is life, the one you get
So go and have a ball.

This is it. This is it
Straight ahead and rest assured
You can't be sure at all.

So while you're here enjoy the view
Keep on doing what you do
So hold on tight we'll muddle through
One day at a time, One day at a time.

So up on your feet. Up on your feet
Somewhere there's music playing.
Don't you worry none
We'll just take it like it comes.

One day at a time, one day at a time.
One day at a time, one day at a time.
One day at a time, one day at a time.
One day at a time, one day at a time.

2006-07-21 11:33:00
58.   underdog
11 45 All good points. That's why i was wondering aloud about it a bit. I like Maddux, but who would go in his place - and that's already counting Tomko in the bullpen, where he may not remain. It seems more likely the Dodgers will need to count on their current starters getting their act together (I'm talking to you Derek Lowe!). Another bat and a reliever seem to be more likely at this point.
Keep hearing Shea Hillenbrand's name of course. Who knows...
2006-07-21 11:33:34
59.   Blu2
Dave Ross couldn't hit even a little bit for us but he was a nice guy and I sort of hated to see him go. Now two years later he's learned to hit a little bit, maybe enough to hold a job as back-up. Who is the frontline catcher for Cincinnatti? Is there any possibility of trading Toby Hall, the rotten apple, to them for Ross? Do they have anyone else we'd want, and do we have anybody on the bench that might interest them?
2006-07-21 11:36:11
60.   bluetahoe
I advocate we trade Izzy for Hillenbrand straight up.

I advocate we push hard for a trade and sign of Soriano. If Washington was willing to trade Soriano for Kemp straight up, I do it.

I advocate we trade Ledee to an AL team that could use a decent left handed bat off the bench. This will probably only bring a mid level prospect.

I advocate Alomar goes on the fake DL till rosters expand since he doesn't play anyways.

Post deadline lineup.
1) Furcal
2) Drew
3) Nomar
4) Soriano
5) Kent
6) Ethier
7) Hillenbrand
8) Martin




I actually advocate Neddie does anything in his powers to trade OP and we go with an 11 man staff and keep Aybar on the 25 man roster till rosters expand.

2006-07-21 11:36:59
61.   Blu2
54 Not cooling down here in southern Nevada. Weather prediction for Saturday and Sunday is 109 with a 20% chance of showers so the humidity is going to be up there, too. Thank God for air conditioning...
2006-07-21 11:40:19
62.   thinkblue0

Trading Kemp is a no no. He's our CF for years to come.

2006-07-21 11:40:23
63.   Humma Kavula
60 I respectfully disagree. I believe that would be replacing a .280 singles hitter with great defense with a .300 mostly singles hitter with shaky defense.

Plus, I'm not sure why we would trade Izzy to get roughly the same production from 3B -- considering both offense and defense -- when we have Aybar and there are other holes to fill.

That said: while I'm not president of the trade-Izzy-now club, I am the Vice President in Charge of Snacks. The club meets on Thursdays.

2006-07-21 11:41:52
64.   King of the Hobos
59 Ross is currently disabled. He entered the year as the third catcher behind Javier Valentin and Jason LaRue, but has probably been their best offensive and defensive catcher. Before hurting himself, he was starting roughly half the games for the Reds in June/July. They'd probably be more willing to deal LaRue or Valentin, who make more money and haven't played to expectations this year (LaRue is batting .200/.331/.319 in 135 ABs and Valentin .229/.290/.331 in 118 ABs). Furthermore, I doubt they have much interest in Hall.
2006-07-21 11:42:18
65.   Bob Timmermann
Sam, if you take your kids to Baraboo, WI, home of the Circus Museum, I will feel obligated to initiate third party legal action to have your kids taken away.

If my father had taken me to see a town full of clowns, I would have reported him to Children's Services.

I like clowns about as much as I like Russ Ortiz or Uncle Miltie likes Jeff Kent.

2006-07-21 11:44:00
66.   Jon Weisman
Carlos Quentin should have at least one ally in the Arizona front office. Fellow Stanford grad A.J. Hinch is the team's farm director.

Kim Ng is featured in this "10 to watch" article as well.

2006-07-21 11:46:37
67.   thinkingblue

Shea would be the leading home run hitter on our team you know.

2006-07-21 11:46:47
68.   Jon Weisman
I still don't see Hillenbrand as an improvement over Aybar backed up by Saenz.

People may criticize Aybar's defense, but many teams won't even consider Hillenbrand at third.

2006-07-21 11:46:48
69.   Blu2
66 Yeah. She ought to be setting in Flander's swivel chair right now. I'd bet we'd have a different team.
2006-07-21 11:47:11
70.   Sam DC
"town full of clowns" -- ahh, the jokes write themselves don't they.

consider your mandatory reporting obligations fulfilled for now. I'll let you know if the circus museum idea gains traction.

You'd prefer I gather that I take them on the tour of the Miller Brewery and let them play with the heavy machinery while my wife and I "sample" ourselves silly? Or I bet there are some good tribal casinos around; those places must have free babysitting, don't ya think?

2006-07-21 11:51:12
71.   dzzrtRatt
It's strange that Hillenbrand and Izturis are linked by the strange coincidence of a birth delaying their arrival, causing their teams' respective managements to lose patience with them.

But Hillenbrand sounds like a worthless pain in the a$$. I'd rather have Izzy.

However, it seems to me -- and this could just be my imagination -- that slick-fielding shortstops are not all that rare. It's almost taken for granted that a shortstop should be able to do the kinds of things Izzy does. Maybe he's 5 percent better than most, but it's not such a pronounced difference that a GM would be thinking, "Damn, if we just had Cesar Izturis, that would put us over the top. I'd trade anything to get him."

I think our most tradeable asset is Baez. Seriously. Pound for pound, he would bring the most in return. I could live with Saito, Broxton and Carrara handling most relief duties from here on in, if we could get something worthwhile -- realistically probably a high-level prospect, not a major league starter -- for Baez.

2006-07-21 11:55:56
72.   Humma Kavula
67 That is damning with faint praise.
2006-07-21 11:57:17
73.   DodgerJoe
I have a huge problem with Kent being signed for next year. I can't seem to get my arms around this one.

It may preclude us from getting someone like Soriano.

By the way, how does Furcal swing at the first pitch of the game and not even hit the ball hard?

2006-07-21 11:57:27
74.   JoeyP
If Washington was willing to trade Soriano for Kemp straight up, I do it.

Dodger Thoughts would contain some very interesting reading that day, if this were to happen.

2006-07-21 11:58:27
75.   Penarol1916
65. How can you advocate avoiding a town full of clowns while also advocating visiting the Dells?
2006-07-21 11:58:50
76.   Suffering Bruin
While trying not to get too personal here, I've been spending a lot of time this past week with my niece and two nephews, all of whom I've been concerned about for the past year. Last year we saw them and there was, ah, room for concern.

This year? The kids are alright. We've been to Disneyland, Universal Studios, Venice Beach... all places where kids can "lose it" while having fun and what can I say? It's been a pleasure.

The Dodgers have developed a farm system. My son's cousins are managing a tough situation as gracefully as they can. I'll always have hope for the future and I'll be mighty glad if there's a long future ahead for my all-time favorite website.

Jon, it has been and continues to be such a pleasure. Happy birthday, DT!

Now, if you'll excuse me, it's off to Raging Waters!

2006-07-21 11:59:21
77.   the OZ
66 69 I'm afraid that we missed our chance to retain Ng when we hired Colletti. She'll be with another team, perhaps, by the time Ned's contract expires or he is fired.

Which should be the end of next season, based on the McCourt's historical HR practices.

2006-07-21 11:59:42
78.   Steve
I believe that would be replacing a .280 singles hitter with great defense with a .300 mostly singles hitter with shaky defense.

Izturis does not in any sense compare to Hillenbrand offensively. Izturis compares to Royce Clayton offensively.

Nevertheless, when I read last night that Hillenbrand had said, upon his departure from Boston, something like "You'll pay for this. Have you ever heard of Jeff Bagwell?", I resolved to oppose his acquisition.

2006-07-21 12:00:46
79.   Steve
By the way, Jon, thanks for sticking with this for four years. You have what they call in the business a "category killer."
2006-07-21 12:05:25
80.   Jon Weisman
79 - That's a good thing, then? As opposed to "buzzkill" or "roadkill?"
2006-07-21 12:10:42
81.   Steve
It's better than being, for instance, the "Mark Hendrickson of the Blogosphere"
2006-07-21 12:15:36
82.   popup
#51, I predict a Vin Scully like run for Jon and Dodger Thoughts. Vin was interviewed on a Mariners pregame show earlier this year and asked about the first game he broadcast for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Vin's first broadcast was a spring training game at Vero Beach between the Dodgers and the Philadelphia A's. Connie Mack was the manager for the A's at the time. Bob can probably find the answer, but I believe Connie first appeared in big league baseball in the 1880's. It is amazing that the current broadcaster for the Dodgers called a game managed by a fellow who played major league baseball in the 19th century.

Jon, you have a few years to go to catch Vin. Good luck along the way.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-07-21 12:16:45
83.   Bluebleeder87

it also shows, how much Jon loves the game.

2006-07-21 12:16:52
84.   Suffering Bruin
81 Classic. Remind me not to get in to a battle of wits with you. Sobbing in the corner of a room while in the fetal position just doesn't make me look good.

Now, seriously, off to Raging Waters! They apparently have a seven-story water slide that my nephew wants me to go on so he can see the "mother of all wedgies."

I think I'd prefer sobbing in the fetal position.

2006-07-21 12:19:57
85.   MartinBillingsley31
Its amazing looking at all the waisted salaries on this team.

1) izturis- 3.1 million for defense only

2) lofton- 3.85 million for speed only

3) furcal- 13 million for a shortstop

4) baez- 4 million for a middle reliever

5) mueller- 4.25 million for ? and disabled and may never return.

6) hall- 2.25 million for a backup catcher

7) cruz- 2.91 million for a poor backup outfielder

8) ledee- 1.5 million for a pinch hitter

Then there are 3 guys that play positions that i advocate spending money on but 2 of them are poor players (perez and tomko) and 1 is injured but is great when healthy (gagne)

8) perez- 9.5 million for a poor starting pitcher

9) tomko- 3.6 million for a poor starting pitcher

10) gagne- 10 million for a great closer when healthy but is injured and out for the season

2006-07-21 12:23:39
86.   the OZ
I wouldn't argue that Perez and Tomko are poor since they're making $1300K combined.
2006-07-21 12:24:03
87.   the OZ
actually, $13000K. Dang.
2006-07-21 12:24:05
88.   MartinBillingsley31
Add to 85

Ledee should say poor pinch hitter as opposed to saenz 1 million for a good pinch hitter.

2006-07-21 12:25:48
89.   scareduck
Congrats on four, Jon. And many more to come.
2006-07-21 12:26:49
90.   scareduck
79 - if only he could be a Plaschke-killer! (Not in a literal sense, of course.)
2006-07-21 12:26:55
91.   Sam DC
Are there really people in California talking about dismantling the dam and restoring the Hetch Hetchy river valley? Is that really a thing that could be done? Wouldn't it be, you know, really different after being underwater for most of a century?
2006-07-21 12:31:37
92.   scareduck
91 - oh, yes. I was looking at this following the energy crisis of 2001; the dam itself delivers a relatively small but not inconsequential amount of energy to the state, and provides San Francisco with drinking water as well. The high tech companies up north don't want it to go away, as my understanding is that the alternative sources of water aren't nearly as pure.
2006-07-21 12:34:49
93.   Sam DC
I was raised that Hetch Hetchy was a spot of comparable grandeur/beauty to Yosemite that was now just gone. Sort of like the twin black Taj Mahal that was never built. I don't really know any facts about any of this, but I find it very engrossing. What a monumental idea it is, for good or ill, to restore it.
2006-07-21 12:40:20
94.   Jeromy
Congrats, Jon on a great 4 years and raise a glass to many more.
2006-07-21 12:45:12
95.   bluetahoe
Those are some good points MB. But you are off on your thought processes on some. I do agree we will be so much better once Ned gets some of those awful salaries off the books.

1) izturis- 3.1 million for defense only - Agreed, bad boy Depo.

2) lofton- 3.85 million for speed only - worth only 2 million. half agree. Ned gets a smack on the wrist.

3) furcal- 13 million for a shortstop. have to agree. 8 million would have been more reasonable. another slap on the wrist to Neddie.

4) baez- 4 million for a middle reliever. I agreed with move at the time. Made all the sense in world. Just hasn't worked out so far. No bad boy punishment.

5) mueller- 4.25 million for ? and disabled and may never return. - Salary a bit high, but assuming he's healthy I think he would have been worth it for 1 year at least. Bottom line. A couple smacks on the wrist for Neddie but no butt woopins.

6) hall- 2.25 million for a backup catcher. - Butt woopins for Ned.

7) cruz- 2.91 million for a poor backup outfielder. Butt woopins for Ng.

8) ledee- 1.5 million for a pinch hitter. - If healthy he's worth it as a pinch hitter and spot starter. No wrist smackins for Depodesta.

Then there are 3 guys that play positions that i advocate spending money on but 2 of them are poor players (perez and tomko) and 1 is injured but is great when healthy (gagne)

8) perez- 9.5 million for a poor starting pitcher. Butt woopins times 1000 to DePo for this one. A Passion of the Christ beating. LOL...

9) tomko- 3.6 million for a poor starting pitcher. Seems unneccesary. I'll go with another Ned wrist smackin.

10) gagne- 10 million for a great closer when healthy but is injured and out for the season. Who'd a thunk it. He was the face of the franchise. No form of beatings to DePo.

2006-07-21 12:50:58
96.   dzzrtRatt
I know the union would never allow this, but shouldn't the Dodgers have some kind of team option on a guy like Gagne who was paid a boatload of money but basically didn't play? That guy got $20 million, more money than most of us will ever see in a lifetime, and spent most of the time on the DL. It's not his fault, but it's not the team's fault either. Maybe contracts should have a standard clause that says for salaries above $5 million, if the player is on the DL more than XX number of days, the team has the unilateral right to renew the contract for 80 percent of its value for one year following the final year of the contract.

At least that would balance out the equities, a way of saying "It's no one's fault, but now the sacrifice is shared" -- and it's not much of a sacrifice for the player.

2006-07-21 12:51:54
97.   Eric Enders
Congrats on year #4, Jon. I'm proud to have been on the bandwagon for about three and a half of those.
2006-07-21 12:53:00
98.   Eric Enders
96 That would only encourage people to stupidly play hurt. Which is clearly an area in which Gagne doesn't need assistance.
2006-07-21 12:55:59
99.   underdog
96 Certainly sounds good, or fair, but Eric is probably right in the kinds of things that may result from it. (Of course, is the inverse sometimes true - that players sometimes don't play as much or as well or get hurt often when they have a big bloated contract?)

Anyway, we could call this the Dreifort Contract (as opposed to the Dreifort Affair), but it would probably never happen.

2006-07-21 13:07:56
100.   Kurt
Oh, Jon, congrats on the big 4.

The fact you answered the "how long will you do this?" question with the lyrics of a 70s sitcom shows your brilliance. Or your love of pop culture triva. Either way it's a good enough reason to come back every day.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-21 13:09:13
101.   MartinBillingsley31
The good news is all those contracts come off the books after this season is over (if ned chooses) except tomko, perez, izturis, furcal, mueller.
Mueller- maybe insurance will cover it.
Ned should try to trade tomko and izturis (i would say perez and furcal but nobody will take those contracts).
2006-07-21 13:10:08
102.   bhsportsguy
Congrats Jon on getting to the Fantanstic Four.

Bob, I will be at the game too, what section will you be in, me, Reserve Section 1.

96 et. al.

I have never understood the fascination with salaries in baseball, you never hear, boy that tackle can't be worth his big signing bonus. I guess it gets talked about a little in basketball but not to the extreme like baseball.

It must be the day to day to exposure of the game and the fact that there is such a disparity in the game. Also, the fact that clubs can hold down salaries for first few years also skew any comparison.

Anytime I hear anyone talk about doing something fair, I always say, if someone handed you a contract with X amount of dollars, would you take it. If you wouldn't more power to you.

2006-07-21 13:10:31
103.   thinkblue0

The only good part about all that is that about 20 mill comes off the books at the end of the year. Plenty of money re-sign Nomar and nab a starter...or let Loney play and get two starters.

Ned's got some work to do....although, with all the money coming off if he can also manage to ditch guys like Tomko and Izturis it might free up enough money to re-sign Nomar, AND get two starting pitchers.

2006-07-21 13:12:36
104.   Sushirabbit
101 etc

I hope you have never gambled a penny.
Or ever thought, I can make that yellow light.

2006-07-21 13:12:43
105.   Linkmeister
The amazing thing about blogging longevity is that for this blogger it hardly seems that long. Then I do an archive search for something I wrote and learn that my first post on the subject was four years ago.

Congratulations and many more, Jon.

2006-07-21 13:18:00
106.   thinkblue0

Ned should try to trade tomko and izturis (i would say perez and furcal but nobody will take those contracts).

this offseason is going to be extremely interesting because of the money. I know Perez won't be taken off our hands, but I'd trade him to anyone willing to take on ANY of his contract. If we find a team that wants him and we pay 7 mill...fine, do it. Addition by subtraction. Tomko and Izzy shouldn't be too tough to deal. If my quick math is correct, and assuming Ned is able to ditch Tomko and Izzy...we could have upwards of 30 mill coming off the books at the end of the year. More than enough to keep Nomar and get a couple pitchers especially seeing as how our lineup could include cheapies like Kemp, Eithier, Laroche, Martin.

2006-07-21 13:20:36
107.   Penarol1916
102. I hear a lot in terms of the NFL and NBA talk about salaries, in the NFL it tends to be more about the effect on the salaray cap, but for two months during the off-season it is constantly all about renegotiating contracts for the cap. There may be less talk about the length of the contract, since they are not guaranteed. In the NBA as well, pretty much all trade talk centers around salaries and making them fit into the cap. I'm not sure who you read when it comes to football and basketball, but I read about as much about salaries and budgeting in those two sports as in baseball, probably more because of salary caps.
2006-07-21 13:24:51
108.   Underbruin
Best wishes and congratulations, Jon.

As the 4th-year anniversary gift travel concept is a Hawai'ian vacation, I say see you on the islands! =P

2006-07-21 13:25:19
109.   MartinBillingsley31
Ned's got some work to do....although, with all the money coming off if he can also manage to ditch guys like Tomko and Izturis it might free up enough money to re-sign Nomar, AND get two starting pitchers.

I did the math and with all the contracts coming off the books and if ned can trade tomko and izturis, we could afford nomar, zito, schmidt and that's still having perez's salary.
The only questions are:
Can ned trade tomko and izturis?
Will nomar, zito, schmidt want to sign with us?
And also, will ned let the dead weight guys with high contracts only signed thru this season walk?

2006-07-21 13:31:45
110.   thinkblue0

if we keep guys like Lofton you're going to find me at the top of Dodger Stadium threatening to hurl myself off. It would make no sense. Next year there is actually a legit chance we could have Kemp, Eithier, Martin, Laroche all in the starting lineup. These guys are cheap and if Ned is smart he'd maximize the money as much as possible.

I don't think trading Izzy and Tomko would be too much of a problem...esepcially since they only have one year left. I'd much rather use that 7 mill on a starter than those two. It's just going to be really interesting to see what Flanders does with this extra cash.

As far as Schmidt and Zito...who knows, but it can't hurt to put forth a competing offer. I honestly think we're gonna land one of those guys and re-sign Nomar and we'll probably be done.

2006-07-21 13:35:09
111.   thinkblue0
did anyone else hear this rumor about Lowell for Peavy? I know it's probably 99% ridiculous but I hope to god the Pads make that deal.
2006-07-21 13:37:51
112.   JoeyP
The key to this off-season is unloading Tomko, Mueller, Izturis, and Hendrickson.

These 4 are due around 17 mils combined, and I'm really worried that Hendrickson will be on the rotation next year.

2006-07-21 13:38:46
113.   Daniel Zappala
Jon, thanks for making this a great place to come to every year.
2006-07-21 13:39:27
114.   MartinBillingsley31
if we keep guys like Lofton you're going to find me at the top of Dodger Stadium threatening to hurl myself off.

LOL!, I'll join you.

Next year there is actually a legit chance we could have Kemp, Eithier, Martin, Laroche all in the starting lineup.


I don't think trading Izzy and Tomko would be too much of a problem...esepcially since they only have one year left.

That's what i think too, and for the same reason.

As far as Schmidt and Zito...who knows, but it can't hurt to put forth a competing offer. I honestly think we're gonna land one of those guys and re-sign Nomar and we'll probably be done.

Probably, but i'm hoping for all 3.
And if we can only sign 2 of nomar, zito, schmidt, i'd want zito and schmidt and just let loney have 1b.
Take a little step backwards at 1b, but improve the offense elsewhere with kemp and laroche over who we had at cf and ss this season and take a big step forward in starting pitching with zito and schmidt.

But it would be great if we can have all 3 of nomar, zito, schmidt.

2006-07-21 13:39:31
115.   thinkblue0

Couldn't agree more. If Flanders plays this thing right, he can jettison a whole bunch of garbage and have A LOT of money to spend...I just hope he doesn't waste it on more Lofton's

2006-07-21 13:40:58
116.   Blu2
It makes a lot more sense to sign players to contracts like Nomar has; believable salaries with nice incentive bonuses for performance. Of course the players and agents wouldn't like that at all. Where are all the character and integrity guys they talk about. If Mueller had integrity he'd retire. Drew would opt out and negotiate a new contract reflecting his actual performance the last year and a half... Naturally since this is man's doings and not God's there is no fair and equitable solution possible.
2006-07-21 13:41:56
117.   Linkmeister
108 If there's a Hawai'ian vacation in the works, I'd better get a phone call so I can offer my (half-day; let's not go overboard here) services as tour guide (Oahu only). ;)
2006-07-21 13:42:02
118.   thinkblue0
But it would be great if we can have all 3 of nomar, zito, schmidt.

It would be nice, but I think some team is going to put up a crazy number for one of them. Kind of like the AJ Burnett deal where everyone collectively said "whaaaaaaat??" I could see the Mets going after Zito.

If the Giants were smart they'd trade Schmidt now. I know they're in the race, but they're not a legit World Series why not trade off Schmidt for two or three great prospects? I'm sure they could get a Brandon McCarthy and maybe a couple others from the White Sox for example.

2006-07-21 13:43:41
119.   MartinBillingsley31
ooppss in 114, this:

over who we had at cf and ss this season

was suppose to say "over who we had at cf and 3b this season"

2006-07-21 13:44:44
120.   Blu2
119 It was even correct in its original posting.
2006-07-21 13:44:56
121.   regfairfield
Barring a miraculous recovery, If Ned manages to trade Bill Mueller, he's the best G.M. in baseball.
2006-07-21 13:45:26
122.   underdog
I wouldn't waste too much time planning your dramatic suicide attempts for next year right now, especially since I think the odds of them re-signing Lofton are going to be pretty tiny. I don't think signing him this year was a bad move at all - even if his defense has deteriorated, because he can still hit, and the Dodgers didn't have much to count on. Especially knowing Werth was probably gone for the year, not knowing what to expect from Repko (and then he was better than expected, and then he got hurt). Not knowing if Ethier would be ready to contribute, and so on. In short, I think it's good they have him this year, and it will be good to not have him next year!
2006-07-21 13:47:40
123.   underdog
121 Sure, and he can throw in some swampy real estate in Florida along with it. Unless there's a GM out there who has been diagnosed with severe mental retardation, I'm guessing this probably wouldn't happen.
2006-07-21 13:50:10
124.   underdog
I liked Josh Rawitch's new post about the Dodgers rough week, and the various pranks to keep the mood light around there. "Taped to my office door was a sign that said, "We come back, Josh." I was told I already had all the Ls, so there were none left for the sign."
2006-07-21 14:00:48
125.   bhsportsguy
Izzy if he is still around will probably be dealt, with one year left on his deal, he could go somewhere and either sign an extension or go for a full season and then be a free agent.

Mueller, if he can't play, he may just retire, otherwise its pretty hard to trade anyone who did not play the last 5 months of the season and has said that his knee is shot.

Tomko, actually (and this flys in the fact of all the talk of middle reliever's value) if he becomes a reliable middle guy, I can see them keeping him for that role and as backup plan for starting since the system still won't have anyone ready at the start of next year.

Hendrickson, if they sign a number one starter (Zito, Schmidt) then I can see him being dealt (or at least offered around) but I think dealing with Odalis (if he is still around) will be a higher priority.

2006-07-21 14:02:46
126.   bhsportsguy
I also would not surprised to see the Dodgers decline their mutual option with Gagne and then offer a similar type contract they gave Nomar.
2006-07-21 14:15:06
127.   underdog
Mariano Duncan's been suspended for two games. No word yet on whether Angel Hernandez will be disciplined in any way for his own behavior.
2006-07-21 14:20:05
128.   JoeyP
I have never understood the fascination with salaries in baseball, you never hear, boy that tackle can't be worth his big signing bonus.

I wouldnt go that far.
There's quite a few NFL veterans that get cut each season after June 1st, for specifically salary-cap reasons. NFL rosters turn over much quicker than MLB rosters.

I think salary management in the NFL is probably even more important than in baseball.

2006-07-21 14:25:04
129.   JoeyP
And to add to that, I remember when the Rams kept Kurt Warner for the 2003 season (instead of cutting him like they should after 2002 bc Marc Bulger had taken over the starting QB position). Anyways, during that 2003 season the Rams had about 25% of their salary cap wearing headphones on the sidelines. That hurt.

Of course, Warner didnt get the kind of grief that baseball players get, bc he did help the Rams win a Super Bowl. But seeing that much money being wasted for basically sentimental reasons was a downer.

2006-07-21 14:25:24
130.   Marty
Rob at 6-4-2 points out that Tom Meagher has re-started blogging.

2006-07-21 14:28:26
131.   Sushirabbit
Unintentional humor is great.
2006-07-21 14:30:36
132.   bhsportsguy
128 Sure, salaries are important in all sports but my point is that I don't think the average Steeler fan pulls out the roster and says, you know if we cut this second string linebacker or now that Bettis is retired maybe we can get this guy, I just don't think it works that way.

I guess I just think if you don't like Raffy Furcal's play fine, but would you like it better if he was being paid 4 million rather than 13 (actually 9 plus his signing bonus).
And you can't use the reason that the other 9 million could be used for someone else because you have no evidence that is true.

2006-07-21 14:31:22
133.   the OZ
130 So does Jon over at Dodger Thoughts: :)

2006-07-21 14:33:43
134.   Gagne55
On the bright side, for next year the Dodgers could have Ethier, Kemp, Repko, Loney, LaRoche, and Billingsley all starting and making a combined less than $3 million. Aybar, Izzy, and Sanez would back up the infield for about $5 million combined. Ugg... Kent, Furcal, and Drew, we don't need you.
2006-07-21 14:33:51
135.   bhsportsguy
129 I don't see how you can be a professional sports fan if you want rational thought to be the ruling force in the front offices of sports franchises across the country.
2006-07-21 14:36:06
136.   Mr Customer
128 - Salary Cap management is vastly more important, in terms of wins and losses. However, that money is all hypothetical, since the contracts are not guaranteed. Hence, the ridiculous signing bonuses.

We wouldn't be needing to wonder what to do with OP if MLB contracts weren't automatic.

2006-07-21 14:37:29
137.   thinkblue0

I wouldn't go that far. Furcal and Drew might be overpaid, but at least they're good players.

Kent on the other hand got an extension when it could have easily waited until the offseason, now we're saddled with another year of close-to-40-year-old second baseman when the money could have been put to someone like Soriano.

Real savvy, Ned.

2006-07-21 14:41:44
138.   Gagne55
Could somebody who knows how to use Diamondmind/Zips simulators tell me how many runs the following line-up would produce in a season at the major league level:

Not much power, but no black holes (unless Kemp plays like he has the last couple weeks) and nobody over 500k.

2006-07-21 14:42:05
139.   tjshere
Jon - Heartiest congrats on birthday #4. You run a fine ship here and I plan on staying for as long it's around.

Or as long as I'm around, whichever goes first.

2006-07-21 14:43:07
140.   Sushirabbit
Speaking of unintentional humor, some of my colleagues pointed out that I resembled Seargent Carter after I got my haircut.

I have to admit there is a little truth to that. Now if I get too wound up they can just say "Golly, Seargent Carter!" and I'll crack up.

2006-07-21 14:45:31
141.   Gagne55
Of course, thats a hypothetical line-up. Why, o why, was Kent extended? And there is no hope of Drew opting out either.
2006-07-21 14:46:37
142.   Gagne55
140 At least you don't look like Lance Carter.
2006-07-21 14:46:45
143.   Marty
133 I was afraid of that, but didn't remember seeing it earlier. Oh well, it's worth a repeat :)
2006-07-21 14:50:19
144.   Jon Weisman
The current Padre starting pitcher for Monday's game in Los Angeles is listed as TBA. What's up with their rotation?

TBA-Lowe Monday
Park-Hendrickson Tuesday
Penny-Peavy Wednesday

2006-07-21 14:52:09
145.   dsfan
Any thoughts on this trade scenario:

J.D. Drew and Triple-A 3B LaRoche for Adrian Beltre and Triple-A CF Adam Jones?

Just a thought. And it assumes the dollars on Drew and Beltre would be negotiated into a wash.

2006-07-21 14:53:52
146.   bhsportsguy
137 Signing a player to an extension during the season is a risk to both sides, Brad Penny signed one last year and it would have been interesting to see if he could have made more as a free agent, making $5.5 million (with bonus) this year seems like a pretty good year. The Angels and Red Sox have both signed pitchers in the last month to extensions, one of them already missed a start, but their teams didn't want to risk a showdown later.

Now if Penny, Escobar, or Beckett have big years during their contract runs, are they fools for signing extensions. If they get hurt, are the teams foolish for the 3 year contract.

I am assuming that coming out of the 2006 spring training, the Dodgers did not think they had a second baseman who would be ready to challenge for the job in 2007 (all those Aybar supporters line up to the left), but with Abreu and Dewitt, there was a good chance that they would have someone in 2008.

So if you have no one in the system for another 2 years, then you look at the potential market and you say well based on our needs, is there a player in the 2006 free agent pool who can help us like Jeff Kent. Even if Soriano comes up, do you want to commit 4-5 years at 10-12 million year or do you roll the dice and say I can extend Jeff for a year and then at the end of 2007, I will have some options both inside and outside to consider.

JoeyP probably thinks this is too well thought out for Ned.

2006-07-21 14:57:53
147.   the OZ
144 Chris Young, but I think he's having some arm issues so he's iffy. That's probably why there's a TBA. On the Padres homepage, the link to "Probable Starters" lists Chris Young vs. Lowe.

Will Carroll's been writing about Young recently; for more details I'd check Carroll's UTK column at BP.

2006-07-21 14:58:05
148.   bhsportsguy
144 Chris Young has a foot issue that he got some new footwear to try and resolve, if he can't make his next start, my hunch is that he goes on the DL.
2006-07-21 14:58:44
149.   Sushirabbit
So what happens when (out of Repko, Ethier, LaRoche, Kemp, Loney, Aybar, Guzman, Martin)
3 or 4 of those guys crater, or sophmore slump for more than a month at the same time? Sure you'll have more money at your disposal, but what are you going to do with it in the middle of the season? And how is that better than what you can do right now?
2006-07-21 14:59:31
150.   regfairfield
135 I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. Our young players can't come up and just replace talent like Drew, Kent and Furcal.

Russel Martin, who we all love, has the 17th highest VORP for a catcher this year (17th VORP rate as well). The man, at this stage of his career, is just an average catcher. Same goes for players like Aybar (15th in rate, 25th overall), and Kemp (17th rate, 26th overall). In fact, Kemp wasn't producing that much more per game than Lofton. Billingsly has a decent ERA, but his perhiprials are terrible (.785 K/BB, a little less than one HR/9). Ethier is the only rookie performing at an above average rate. If we didn't have veterans out there right now, the Dodgers would be terrible.

Now, Furcal and Drew are not putting up their normal numbers, but if they were doing what was expected, they would easily out perform any rookie we could throw out there.

We're the Los Angeles Dodgers, we can afford good players to play with the rookies so we don't have to be like the Marlins and build five years before we can make a run. Just because a player makes money doesn't mean he's evil.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-21 14:59:47
151.   the OZ
144 (cont'd) Young had a foot-related injury. He's going to try to start with an orthotic insert in his shoe to relieve stress.
2006-07-21 15:00:16
152.   bhsportsguy
145 No way Drew gets traded unless he agrees not to opt out after this year (I am assuming a team that trades for him would want him for the remaining 3 years) and there is no way Boras would do that outside of more money and years.
2006-07-21 15:01:27
153.   Nagman
If it's not Young it will probably be Thompson who has done Houlton-like work as a fill in 5th starter. They are currently carrying 13 pitchers (and 3 catchers), I believe.
2006-07-21 15:01:36
154.   Telemachos
145 I'd rather have under-performing Drew than under-performing Beltre, especially with LaRoche in the wings. Admittedly I know nothing about Adam Jones.
2006-07-21 15:02:02
155.   bhsportsguy
150 I think you meant 134
2006-07-21 15:03:26
156.   bhsportsguy
144 Now I know why Jon started this blog, he wanted the power to command responses with the movement of a few digits.
2006-07-21 15:04:09
157.   Sushirabbit
146 Not that he's above some healthy criticisms (maybe CMC, and Hendrickson in my mind) but I'll sooner give Ned the benefit of the doubt than I would some of the posters around here.
2006-07-21 15:07:29
158.   Steve
If we announced that a pitcher was TBA, I'd take it as a threat.
2006-07-21 15:08:07
159.   dsfan

Just a thought. Thought I'd throw it out there.

Beltre's OBP woes are frightening. But so is Drew's fragility and potential shoulder-related power decline. And he's a few years older. Maybe a change of scenery would help each player and the DH would allow Drew to get some rest yet keep his timing.
As for Adam Jones, very athletic, former SS who's raw but promising in CF.

2006-07-21 15:08:45
160.   JoeyP
135. I root for teams, not players. Its like Seinfeld said, I basically root for laundry.
2006-07-21 15:08:53
161.   Sushirabbit
150 I don't think they can hear you.

It's sort of like when your kid goes
"Dad, you just can't understand!!"

2006-07-21 15:08:59
162.   underdog
Does Toaster have the ability to build spin-off comments sections, so we can have a separate area for all "Trade Drew/Kent sucks" comments? Not that I'm in love with either player but I find the repeated, daily comments to this effect a little tiresome. Or is that just me?

And what

2006-07-21 15:09:48
163.   bhsportsguy
See what you get for tossing your hat in the ring.

Per MLB - Suspended Los Angeles Dodgers first base coach Mariano Duncan for two
games and fined him an undisclosed amount for his inappropriate actions during a
July 17 game at Arizona.

The note said that Duncan will sit out tonite and tomorrow's nights games, no mention if the Dodgers will go capless in solidarity of their coach.

2006-07-21 15:10:43
164.   dsfan

You're probably correct but might be overstating things on Drew and the marketplace.

Teams might not neccessarily mind if Drew opted out. $33 million over three years for a depreciating asset is more burden than boon. It's conceivable that Drew would opt out for personal reasons, but given his power decline, age and fragility, unlikely he would command a $33 million guarantee on the market.

2006-07-21 15:10:56
165.   underdog
Sorry, I meant, "Drew/Kent sucks" comments, minus "trade." Didn't mean to appear as if picking on dsfant there, there haven't been quite as many Drew-related trade proposals as just the general hatred.

More importantly, maybe we'll all be less cranky if the team would just start winning games again. ;-)

2006-07-21 15:11:14
166.   MartinBillingsley31
Just for the record, i'm not advocating all rookies and 2nd/3rd year players for next year.
As you can see, i have some veterans on the roster that i want.

Starting position
nomar (veteran)
kent (veteran)
furcal (veteran)
drew (veteran)

Bench (all getting plenty of playing time except saenz)
saenz (veteran)
backup catcher (veteran)

Starting pitching
zito (veteran)
schmidt (veteran)
penny (veteran)
lowe (veteran)

perez(veteran,i don't want him but his contract)
3 ? (non roster invitee/veteran returning from injury/prospect

2006-07-21 15:12:39
167.   JoeyP
Beltre's OBP woes are frightening. But so is Drew's fragility and potential shoulder-related power decline.

But even if Drew's hurt, he can still get on base.
Beltre cant get on base or hit for power.

2006-07-21 15:13:20
168.   Daniel Zappala
162 If this was church, I would say "Amen".
2006-07-21 15:15:19
169.   Daniel Zappala
Or maybe this is a synagogue, but I wouldn't know what to say there.
2006-07-21 15:16:39
170.   JoeyP
Our young players can't come up and just replace talent like Drew, Kent and Furcal.

Very true.
Its more about replacing Baez, Lofton, Mueller, Tomko, Hendrickson (vets that make money, but talent-wise could be replaced by minimum salaried kids with little drop off in performance).

There's no problem with paying big money to above average players. Its when you choose the average 4-6 mils dollar player, over the league min rookie that can do the same things, that teams lose financial flexibility.

2006-07-21 15:16:52
171.   Marty
This is as close to church as I'll ever get.
2006-07-21 15:24:22
172.   Daniel Zappala
Who would be the fool to take you
Be more than just kind
Step into a life of maybe
Love is hard to find

In the Church of the Poison Mind

2006-07-21 15:24:24
173.   JoeyP
Beltre's been remarkably consistent.

2001,2002,2003,2005,2006. His numbers have very little deviation.

Its that 2004 season that is just such an outlier.

2006-07-21 15:25:47
174.   underdog
169 I've been to both, and am Jewish, rarely hear "amen" in synagogue (though "amen" in Hebrew is "amen" - it's actually a Hebrew word - heh), but I can give you some spare "Mazel tovs" and "Dai-ya-nu"s if you'd like. Those are more fun.
2006-07-21 15:25:54
175.   Andrew Shimmin
166- Has anything changed since the last time you posted that list? It looks the same (to my untrained eye).
2006-07-21 15:28:02
176.   underdog
175 If you look real close there's a subliminal Google ad in the middle of it. I think it's for Netflix.
2006-07-21 15:29:04
177.   MartinBillingsley31
Today's lineup

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF (puke)
Drew, RF (back to the No. 3 spot today)
Nomar, 1B
Ethier, LF
Aybar, 2B
Izzy, 3B (puke)
Martin, C
Penny, P

2006-07-21 15:31:55
178.   underdog
Is anybody going to ask a question of Steve Garvey in the upcoming chat on I honestly can't think of a single interesting thing to ask him. Except maybe "Why did you have the stiffest posture I've ever seen?"
2006-07-21 15:32:13
179.   JoeyP
I like Drew in the 3spot, with Nomar hitting behind him.

I might be able to stomach Lofton a bit more, if he batted 8th and Martin batted 2nd. I realize Little's options are very limited in CF now.

2006-07-21 15:34:04
180.   MartinBillingsley31
Has anything changed since the last time you posted that list? It looks the same (to my untrained eye).

No nothing has changed.
I just posted it again because i wasn't sure if someone earlier in this thread was talking to me when he/she said something about its not good to have all rookies or 2nd/3rd year players, and i've noticed some unfamiliar names here lately.

2006-07-21 15:39:18
181.   regfairfield
180 Nope, not you.
2006-07-21 15:42:20
182.   Marty
I'd like to know how many notches Garvey has on his belt.
2006-07-21 15:56:00
183.   Steve
Apparently, Ned's out trying to improve the team again. That shudder must stem from the excitement.
2006-07-21 15:59:35
184.   thinkingblue has now become the capitol (if I'm supposed to use al, or ol in this context of capito, I don't know) of censorship.

I posted changed lyrics of a song, and it was instantly deleted. no swearing, or offensive things anywhere in the song, and it was deleted. I really don't think the living half of the beatles read the dodger message board, or would sue over that, but it was still deleted anyway.

No wonder there isn't much posting there anymore.

2006-07-21 16:04:13
185.   thinkingblue

what do you mean?

2006-07-21 16:06:10
186.   Marty
According to the Padres are interested in Randa. Didn't they have him last year and let him go so they could trade for Castilla?
2006-07-21 16:12:13
187.   scareduck
184 - fanboards are a cesspit.
2006-07-21 16:13:54
188.   mikethinksblue
Congrats on turning 4 Jon. Coincidentally, I was just reading your archives this morning while avoiding work. For some reason, I really enjoyed your 1-30-03 post with your one sentence game summaries. Who the "Luke" you referred to scoring the winning run in Beltre's debut game? I can't remember any Luke's from back then.
2006-07-21 16:14:48
189.   Andrew Shimmin
Is it worse to want Randa back, when Bellhorn is the other option than to want Beltre back when Aybar is the other option?
2006-07-21 16:17:26
190.   Andrew Shimmin
188- Matt Luke. He didn't stick around long.

2006-07-21 16:18:10
191.   underdog
188 Prokopec?
Certainly not Hochevar.

Randa, no, he wouldn't hurt the Padres, but it does seem a little odd, since they didn't seem that interested in retaining him last year. The Padres are odd in general - they make moves, get players who appear washed up or unexciting, and yet they remain in first place and some of those players even play well for awhile. Must be something in the water at PetCo. I can't count on just one hand the # of players they've brought in over the past year or 2 in which I chuckled upon hearing of the signing or trade, only to have them somehow play decent.

2006-07-21 16:23:00
192.   Nagman
191 - No kidding. I live in SD so I follow the Padres and have the same amazement for their successes with players off the scrap heap. I can only attribute it to... hard for me to say... cough... gulp... chemistry?
2006-07-21 16:28:02
193.   StolenMonkey86
4 more years!
2006-07-21 16:30:11
194.   King of the Hobos
Rosenthal's newest article discusses which teams need to make moves if they want to contend. The Dodgers are one of them, and his suggestion is unloading prospects for the likes of Hillenbrand, Maddux, and Rheal Cormier. Does he actually believe those 3 players would help much? Seems to me those 3 wouldn't be worth more than maybe a win over what we currently have (and could be worth less than what we currently have).

However, DT would be very interesting to read if we dealt Guzman for Cormier.

2006-07-21 16:32:08
195.   DXMachina
184 - I'm guessing it's strictly a copyright thing. Fan sites of all sorts are constantly getting cease and desist letters for posting material such as that (even though parody is protected), so to expect a site owned by MLB to allow it is probably hoping for too much. It's not personal, just business.

Why not post it here?

2006-07-21 16:32:51
196.   ssjames
Now I will always be able to remember how old Dodgersthoughts is, because it is created on my 25th birthday. Also, I didn't know until this thread that I shared a birthday with Alexander the Great.
2006-07-21 16:33:11
197.   MartinBillingsley31
11 days and counting for ned to stay away from the phones.
2006-07-21 16:35:41
198.   Bluebleeder87

he didn't stick around that long.

2006-07-21 16:41:51
199.   JoeyP
The Padres should just keep Mark Bellhorn at 3rd. I dont think Randa, Beltre, or Hillenbrand really would improve them that much for what they'd trade.
2006-07-21 16:42:44
200.   Linkmeister
197 I suppose it's illegal to cut the Dodger GM's phone line, and besides, he's probably got a cellphone (something I just got around to getting about a month ago).
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-21 16:43:47
201.   Jon Weisman
Who knows the meaning of this word, without looking it up? I just learned it.


2006-07-21 16:45:14
202.   JoeyP
they make moves, get players who appear washed up or unexciting, and yet they remain in first place and some of those players even play well for awhile. Must be something in the water at PetCo. I can't count on just one hand the # of players they've brought in over the past year or 2 in which I chuckled upon hearing of the signing or trade, only to have them somehow play decent.

Piazza and Cameron are both above average at their positions. Chris Young had a nice upside. They moved Loretta to make room for Jesse Barfield. Chan Ho Park is nothing special, but he does pretty much what they expect. I think the only guy the Padres brought in, that played way above expectations, has been Dave Roberts.

2006-07-21 16:46:34
203.   overkill94
DT favorite Russ Ortiz is doing his best Russ Ortiz impression in Tampa Bay today. After five batters, he's given up 3 runs on 4 hits and a walk and still hasn't gotten anyone out.
2006-07-21 16:47:30
204.   overkill94
Make it 4 runs on 5 hits and a walk

Erik Bedard was supposed to start today but apparently got food poisoning. You think Joe Maddon had one of his lackeys put something in Bedard's meal last night?

2006-07-21 16:47:47
205.   njr
Someone I don't know just came by my office and handed me two tickets to tonight's game.
Sort of like a birthday party-favor...
Congrats Jon-- I don't know how I would deal with the Dodgers without this site.
2006-07-21 16:49:40
206.   DXMachina
194 - The only thing I have to say about Rheal Cormier is that he's the only guy in the majors to have attended a school where I once taught.
2006-07-21 16:49:41
207.   overkill94
202 Don't forget about their tandem of backup catchers, Josh Bard and Rob Bowen, who had done jack squat in their careers and are both hitting over .300
2006-07-21 16:50:34
208.   overkill94
Awww, looks like the Orioles actually want to win, they pulled Ortiz after said 6 batters.
2006-07-21 16:52:19
209.   the OZ
201 I dunno, but it's an anagram for "Rays eye lemon"
2006-07-21 16:53:12
210.   scareduck
202 - what's interesting about the Chris Young deal for me is that it disproves something I've believed for a long time: the Rangers can't scout pitching. The problem is their awful park.
2006-07-21 16:55:55
211.   Linkmeister
201 Having a fiduciary interest.

Bill Gates Eleemosynary Trust would be one in which his assets were place and held in trust for beneficiaries.

2006-07-21 16:57:29
212.   King of the Hobos

They are bringing baseball back to Hawaii in the form of a winter league, essentially as a lower level equivalent of the Arizona Fall League.

2006-07-21 16:57:58
213.   skybluestoday
RE: 201

Pertaining to alms or begging. I remember that much from college.

2006-07-21 16:59:07
214.   Jon Weisman
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of, relating to, or dependent on charity. 2. Contributed as an act of charity; gratuitous. See synonyms at benevolent.
ETYMOLOGY: Medieval Latin elemosynrius, from Late Latin elemosyna, alms. See alms.
2006-07-21 17:00:29
215.   Jon Weisman
JAHRF Cody Ross
2006-07-21 17:01:57
216.   thinkblue0
great. Izzy in the lineup. I'll commence drinking my bottle of bleach.
2006-07-21 17:04:14
217.   StolenMonkey86
I suppose it's illegal to cut the Dodger GM's phone line, and besides, he's probably got a cellphone

We could only be so lucky for the Giants to shut off his service again.

2006-07-21 17:06:19
218.   scareduck
215 - "JAHRF"?
2006-07-21 17:07:10
219.   Jon Weisman
Just another home run for

It's a play on the popular JAWFA. (Just another walk for Aybar.) At least, I thought it was popular.

2006-07-21 17:07:27
220.   scareduck
201, 214 - I remember that. We just had our wills done and that word did in fact appear in the legal boilerplate. Have you been spending time with your attorney?
2006-07-21 17:08:04
221.   scareduck
219 - I keep telling you, you need a wiki to go with DT so those of us who are part-timers can keep up.
2006-07-21 17:09:25
222.   JoeyP
Good for Cody Ross, although he needs to get that OBP up some.
2006-07-21 17:09:40
223.   Linkmeister
212 Yep. I wondered why the lights were on at Aloha Stadium most evenings, so I checked the sports pages. It's costly to run those lights, so I hope they're getting decent attendance.

I shoulda gone to some of those games the first time around, considering who some of the alumni are (Ichiro, for one). Maybe I will this time.

2006-07-21 17:11:03
224.   Jon Weisman
220 - Yeah. But I usually don't participate in the jargon game.

Maybe someone competent with Wikipedia can post a Dodger Thoughts entry there and start putting in the jargon? I don't know.

2006-07-21 17:11:14
225.   natepurcell
Happy Birthday DodgerThoughts!

Now I must go hit golf balls.

2006-07-21 17:14:44
226.   natepurcell
A college player in our system people should keep an eye out on is Andrew Locke, OF/DH at Vero. He was raking at Columbus and got called up and appears to have settled in. Good 11:12: K:bb ratio in almost 100ABs.
2006-07-21 17:15:52
227.   underdog
202 Piazza and Cameron are both above average at their positions. Chris Young had a nice upside. They moved Loretta to make room for Jesse Barfield. Chan Ho Park is nothing special, but he does pretty much what they expect. I think the only guy the Padres brought in, that played way above expectations, has been Dave Roberts.

I was definitely not thinking of Young, who I thought was a good pitcher when they got him and is pretty young. I'm more thinking of:
Yes, Piazza, above average hitter, below average catcher and seemingly close to done a year or so ago
Eric Young
Add to that last year's assortment of guys like Pedro Astacio and Randa and so on. It's somehow been working for them, plus, yes a mi x of some good young players (though I still consider their minor league system overall to be weaker at this point than the Dodgers', but seasons aren't won on paper or by potential alone.)

2006-07-21 17:17:07
228.   Icaros

Maybe someone with a few extra acres of land lying around could form the first Dodger Thoughts commune.

2006-07-21 17:21:34
229.   Nagman
227 - Last year they got contributions from guys like Mark Sweeney, Robert Fick, Rudy Seanez, and Geoff Blum. The trend does seem to be continuing this season with guys like Bard, Embree, Park, Bowen, Cassidy (who has since regressed). Teams weren't knocking down doors to sign Piazza, and nobody wanted Bellhorn (bad numbers, but hey, 7 hrs as a part-timer).
2006-07-21 17:23:09
230.   Jon Weisman
228 - Maybe!

Game thread is open.

2006-07-21 17:24:03
231.   JoeyP
Well, I dont really think Eric Young or Alan Embree have made much of a difference for the Padres.
Randa was a total waste for the Pads last year.

Bard/Bowen/Roberts have overperformed.
But Giles/Cameron/Piazza were good players to begin with. Greene/Barfield/Gonzalez all young guys with potential.

If the Pads stay away from the average Vet, and concentrate on just either having above average players at each position, or youngsters with upside, they will be alright.

2006-07-21 17:24:49
232.   Andrew Shimmin
Making wikipedia articles about blogs is tricky business. Some wikipedians hate blogs and will spend a truly fantastic amount of time trying to kill blog articles. Athletics Nation has one, though, its original incarnation was successfully deleted.
2006-07-21 17:28:09
233.   Jon Weisman
232 - "Some wikipedians hate blogs"

Why? Isn't hating blogs so 2003?

2006-07-21 17:29:03
234.   Blu2
Please forgive another post about David Ross. He has hit more HRs this year in part time than our team leader. In 2003 he had 10 in only 164 at bats so there was an indication he had some pop. He didn't do a thing last year when the job was his for the taking, and nobody, myself included, lamented his being DFAd. But now I think he would make an excellent fit as our back-up, better than Tobey (I don't want to be here). I think we ought to see what we can do to get him back next year.
2006-07-21 17:31:03
235.   Jon Weisman
I had never heard of Pathetics Nation before, until I looked up AN on Wikipedia.
2006-07-21 17:37:10
236.   Steve
235 -- It doesn't appear that you were missing much.
2006-07-21 17:41:29
237.   Andrew Shimmin
236- I don't know, the Anti-Blez totally rips on the other Billy Bean's being gay. Score! Also, the glossary contains more evidence of a pet theory of mine: when some one used the word "witty," 80% of the time, it's demonstrably the wrong word.
2006-07-21 17:45:06
238.   thinkingblue
Does anyone get XM radio? Someone on said he heard on the XM radio that a Soriano to dodgers deal was coming. Does anyone have a confirmation?
2006-07-21 17:48:15
239.   King of the Hobos
238 I can almost guaruntee that it's BS, as he later came back and said John Patterson, who is out for the year, will be part of the deal.
2006-07-21 17:57:17
240.   thinkingblue

He then said it might have been a different player, but you're right, it's probably bs.

2006-07-21 18:39:34
241.   jasbo
OK, I'm at least half serious: Unless we get a couple bats and some serious arms, the Dodgers are NOT going anywhere in the playoffs -- even if they get in. Therefore, why not think totally future at the deadline?

Make just about everyone above 25 available (keeping a few -- Nomar, Penny -- for veteran leadership) and try to fill holes where our youngsters are short (on the mound and in the OF) The only downside is giving up on this year, but I think people will still turn out to see the future grow.

I'd rather blow off this year than give up ANY promising talent for the rent-a-vet who gets you to but not far into the playoffs.

2006-07-21 20:21:58
242.   wkk
I'm a long time lurker, wishing you a Happy 4th, and hoping there is many more!

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.