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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

No Punchline
2006-07-22 16:49
by Jon Weisman

The last time the Dodgers did not hit 10 home runs in a full month of baseball was June 1992, when they hit eight. The 1992 season featured the three worst Dodger home run months in recent history: August (10) and September (11). The team managed 72 home runs that season.

So far this month, Olmedo Saenz and Nomar Garciaparra have each hit two home runs and Andre Ethier one. The rest of team has gone 471 at-bats without hitting one out.

No, I don't have a joke here.

* * *

Friday night, Albert Pujols successfully tagged up from first on a fly ball in front of Kenny Lofton well inside the warning track in center field, providing the latest example of Lofton's defensive disaster zone.

Lofton's only function now is to be a table-setter, and with his on-base percentage at .400 for July, that much he's doing. He's the yin to Cesar Izturis' yang, who theoretically drives in enough runs with his glove to compensate for a .316 on-base percentage and .657 OPS.

I'd argue that the Dodgers can afford one dog in the outfield and one dog in the batting order when the rest of the team is producing. As we know, the rest of the team isn't - and with J.D. Drew and Jeff Kent out, we're going to have to chew on it a good deal.

People like me are wary of playing Olmedo Saenz too much, especially against right-handed pitchers. But maybe the team should be squeezing a few more at-bats out of him with both Drew and Kent out.

And until Matt Kemp or someone with a power bat returns, ready or not, I think we'll have to suffer Lofton's defense a little while longer.

* * *

Russell Martin has escaped the No. 8 spot. Yep, it was about time.

Tonight's Game

Comments (293)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-22 16:54:37
1.   Bob Timmermann
I promise not to interfere with a ball in play tonight.

I also promise not to incite any Cardinals fans.

2006-07-22 16:58:17
2.   trainwreck
They incited you Bob.
2006-07-22 16:58:41
3.   trainwreck
They probably brag about the Rams too.
2006-07-22 16:59:47
4.   trainwreck
I like Martin moving up in the batting order, but it is a bad sign if he has to hit 5th behind Ethier hitting cleanup.
2006-07-22 17:01:29
5.   Bob Timmermann
No, I must be the bigger person.
2006-07-22 17:03:11
6.   natepurcell
whats the word on Drew? Ive been at work all day.
2006-07-22 17:04:52
7.   Bob Timmermann
JD Drew is like all of us: day to day.

He was limping pretty badly when he left last night.

2006-07-22 17:05:24
8.   JoeyP
Will Izturis ever bat 8th?
2006-07-22 17:09:25
9.   Jon Weisman
The eighth spot is like the second cleanup spot. The seventh spot is like the second 3.5 spot.
2006-07-22 17:12:35
10.   natepurcell
Trainwreck said in other thread that Cubs asked for Ethier for Maddux. Was that in print somehwere?
2006-07-22 17:16:30
11.   trainwreck
Jayson Stark insider article.
2006-07-22 17:17:58
12.   natepurcell
anyone see this? From

The Pirates are thought to be interested in Dodgers SS Cesar Izturis, who could replace Jack Wilson if the current Pirates shortstop is shipped out of Pittsburgh at or before the trade deadline or during the offseason. Izturis was a favorite of manager Jim Tracy when Tracy managed in Los Angeles.

Cesar for Tom Gorzelanny!?!?

2006-07-22 17:20:58
13.   trainwreck
Gorzelanny and McCutchen...
afterall Izturis is an All Star ;)
2006-07-22 17:22:12
14.   Steve
12 -you can't rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic if you don't have any deck chairs.
2006-07-22 17:26:14
15.   underdog
12 Um, you're of course kidding I assume, but as for reality I won't take less than Mike Gonzalez for Izturis.
2006-07-22 17:31:29
16.   King of the Hobos
The NL West continues to get "stronger." Scott Williamson to the Padres for 2 minor leaguers (Fabian Jimenez Angulo and Joel Santo).

2006-07-22 17:34:45
17.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think that trade is Griddle worthy. The Score Bard can handle it.
2006-07-22 17:45:09
18.   trainwreck
Tthose prospects must be terrible, because Sickels didn't even rank them and the Padres system is garbage.
2006-07-22 17:49:42
19.   popup
Bob, I bet you are looking forward to the SABR convention next year. Just think, you will get the opportunity to sit in a stadium full of Cardinal fans. My suggestion---wear blue.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-07-22 17:50:50
20.   King of the Hobos
18 They're pretty much garbage. Angulo is 19 with some upside, but has walked 52 men in 87.1 IP (and struck out 54). Santo however is 22, and has walked 54 compared to only 48 Ks in 92 IP. Seems like the Cubs received two young aspiring Kaz Ishiis. The Padres don't really need a reliever, so this seems like a precursor to another trade.
2006-07-22 17:52:27
21.   Bob Timmermann
I'm looking forward to next year's SABR convention so I can go visit my brother and his family.

The SABR group will be in all different colors so it won't matter. There predominantly fans of teams from Chicago, New York, and Boston.

2006-07-22 17:59:27
22.   Bob Timmermann
If I had to pay a nickel, I typed the wrong form of there/they're/their I would have paid down the national debt to zero.
2006-07-22 18:08:56
23.   Vaudeville Villain

A man can dream.

2006-07-22 18:09:21
24.   thinkingblue
There's a Grady who's sure
that his hitters aren't gold
And he's wanting some major league hitters
When he gets one he knows
If the team needs a run
With a swing he can get what he paid for

There's some words on the wall
But he wants to be sure
Cuz you know words like Cruz have
no impact
In the mind of the fans, there's a songbird who sings
Somtimes the need for speed is misgiven

2006-07-22 18:11:21
25.   thinkingblue

They couldn't "incite" a ham sandwich.

2006-07-22 18:17:13
26.   Sam DC
Three cheers for Marty's improving life-jacket-wearing pup and Andrew's smokeless lungs. Go team!
2006-07-22 18:18:34
27.   Andrew Shimmin
22- Oh please. You don't really expect us to believe that you've misused a there/their/they're 1.68394186 × 10^14 times, do you? That's just a blatant lie, isn't it?
2006-07-22 18:22:13
28.   Andrew Shimmin
Personally, I'm much happier for Marty's dog than for my lungs. I still believe nano technology will mootify the ill effects of smoking. And I will be a prodigal smoker when that day comes (assuming the nanobots can also fix the whole smelling like garbage aspect).

Or something.

2006-07-22 18:23:35
29.   Sam DC
Well, do stick with out until the nanobots show. And if you'd like to be let alone, certainly speak up.
2006-07-22 18:24:01
30.   Linkmeister
27 Hey! No pedantry here!

And yes, hooray for Marty's pooch.

2006-07-22 18:25:14
31.   Linkmeister
Oh, and Andrew, by the time the nanobots solve it, the price of a pack will be $27 plus tax. For reference, my local Safeway charges $5.05/pack right now.
2006-07-22 18:29:40
32.   Andrew Shimmin
29- I'm sticking; no way I'm going to start this over! Actually, mentioning it here is probably the only thing that has kept me from slipping. I didn't want to have to admit it. I didn't start smoking till I was 21, and I took it up in a social vacuum, so, the only sort of smoking related peer pressure I've ever experienced was to quit.
2006-07-22 18:33:21
33.   Andrew Shimmin
31- But the nanobots will manufacture the cigarettes, by magic, for a cost of fractions of a penny per trillion units! And they'll be teleported into my shirt pocket free of charge, because the whole operation will be ad supported. And the ads will be holographs!


2006-07-22 18:34:04
34.   Andrew Shimmin
And, with that, I've exhausted my exclamation point quota for the month.
2006-07-22 18:34:16
35.   D4P
Well, I'm sure it's nice to have friends like Miltie, Brock, and myself around to encourage you...
2006-07-22 18:35:09
36.   Andrew Shimmin
Buddy Bell and Tony Graffanino exhausted their supplies, too. Joe West threw them out, in KC.
2006-07-22 18:36:38
37.   D4P
Not to mention your capital letter quota...
2006-07-22 18:36:39
38.   Andrew Shimmin
35- See how unhelpful you are? I was going for the cycle, right there, and you had to interrupt.
2006-07-22 18:39:13
39.   D4P
But that's the point: we're trying to help you break the cycle.
2006-07-22 18:40:14
40.   Nolan
1) Cesar Izturis's numbers would have looked good in the NL circa 1968. They don't fly now and he must got - a young middle reliever would be absolutely terrific.

2) It may be that the myriad injuries to JD Drew's legs have totally sapped his power. Never a real bomber to begin with, we could be seeing the beginning of the end here. Unfortunately, the worse he gets the more likely that he exercises his option.

2006-07-22 18:42:34
41.   trainwreck
Dave Roberts just got picked off at first.
2006-07-22 18:52:39
42.   King of the Hobos
Ketchner went 2 innings, striking out 5, and Kershaw went 5 innings, also striking out 5 for the GCL team. Mattingly also went 2-4 with a double.
2006-07-22 19:00:34
43.   trainwreck
Ketchner, I am assuming, won't be there long once he builds his arm strength back up?
2006-07-22 19:00:35
44.   blue22
Is Lofton tradeable? He could be a player the Red Sox might look at. Boston has one of 3 or 4 pitchers in the pen that they could offer.
2006-07-22 19:04:54
45.   das411
So...since he was only DFA'd and not officially released yet, doesn't that mean there can still be a monster Fasano + Lidle + White for Aybar + Hall trade? Please??

...and is there anybody here who can tell me how far in I have to get before "Syriana" starts actually making sense?

2006-07-22 19:06:09
46.   Gen3Blue
What is this Jack Wilson like, and why is he likely to be leaving the Pirates.
Looks like Gameday again tonight.
2006-07-22 19:08:45
47.   Gen3Blue
40 I'd say the middle of the end.
2006-07-22 19:09:28
48.   Marty
Well, I got the dog home. He's really happy to be out of the vet. He actually is trying to run and play and I have to slow him down. His right hind leg is still quite a bit worse than the left and he still has bathroom issues to overcome. I've got to get some doggie diapers for the short term (oh the humiliation!)

But it's great to have him home and my other dog is much happier now. He goes back to the vet for more therapy Monday, but this weekend should give me a good idea of what I'm looking at when he comes home permanently.

It's things like his situation that make it easier to just watch the Dodgers whether they are winnig or stinking it up. It's a nice diversion no matter how bad they are.

2006-07-22 19:12:58
49.   Marty
If Izzy could just hit only just as well as Aybar he'd be worth a lot of money.
2006-07-22 19:17:11
50.   trainwreck
Why were there so many people cheering when Furcal got out?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-22 19:17:40
51.   bhsportsguy
Draft update:
First Round (incl. Supplemental) update.

Season to date:
Clayton Kershaw 16 IP, 13 hits, 2 ER, 1 BB, 23 K. (GCL)

Bryan Morris 23 IP, 26 hits, 9 ER, 12 BB, 26 K (Pioneer)

Preston Mattingly .351/.390/.426 in 100 plate appearances. (GCL)

2006-07-22 19:21:02
52.   trainwreck
Jeff Weaver, the end all cure to a slumping offense.
2006-07-22 19:24:04
53.   Gen3Blue
So no Drew. Getting hit like that could either break your kneecap or give you a bruise. There aren't any likely alternatives.
All I can say during this slump is thank god for Lofton. Although as Jon points out his D is nil, he proves that they are not throwing vertual balls every game or two.
2006-07-22 19:25:14
54.   Steve
Don't usually recommend the Times, but everyone should read the Jim Healy memorial today, lift a glass, and remember the man.
2006-07-22 19:27:30
55.   DXMachina
2006-07-22 19:27:33
56.   trainwreck
2006-07-22 19:28:29
57.   trainwreck
2006-07-22 19:29:48
58.   bhsportsguy
54 I agree with Steve?
"Who goofed, I've got to know."

And remember, if you ever meet Tommy Lasorda, don't ask him what he thought about Dave Kingman's performance.

2006-07-22 19:29:54
59.   Steve
2006-07-22 19:31:42
60.   Scanman33
It's OK. Izturis will surely save 2-3 runs with his glove, easy.
2006-07-22 19:34:21
61.   King of the Hobos
60 It's too bad his defense isn't Bugs Bunny-esque, we'd still have the lead then. I think Bugs Bunny really does save 2-3 runs with his glove though.
2006-07-22 19:34:39
62.   Steve
I mean, what kind of Colletti-brained doofus tries to lead off with a bunt against Jeff Weaver?
2006-07-22 19:44:51
63.   Marty
Even a left-handed Cruz can hit Weaver.
2006-07-22 19:46:36
64.   gpellamjr
Maybe Weaver is failing intentionally so that he can be released and live out his contract away from baseball. He doesn't seem bothered like he used to.
2006-07-22 19:47:19
65.   Marty
54 I recommend The Robert Hilburn rock retrospective on A1 too. He is one of the nicest people you ever want to meet and it was fun to read about his interaction with the old rock stars.
2006-07-22 19:49:52
66.   JeffWeaver4God
Bird dog'em.
2006-07-22 19:50:45
67.   trainwreck
20 pushups Kenny.
2006-07-22 19:50:46
68.   King of the Hobos
Drew is available to pinch hit. His knee is still a little sore, but shouldn't keep him out of the lineup much longer.
2006-07-22 19:51:03
69.   gpellamjr
Wily Weaver works his way out of another jam.
2006-07-22 19:53:44
70.   Gen3Blue
Gee, Weave looks pretty good. But then again most pitchers look great.
2006-07-22 19:57:29
71.   trainwreck
There are way too many Cardinal fans at the game and Albert Pujols is too good.
2006-07-22 20:01:59
72.   JoeyP
If you are going to walk Chris Duncan, why not walk Albert Pujols too?
2006-07-22 20:02:27
73.   D4P
Prior to this year, Pujols hit a HR every 14.76 ABs. This year, he has hit a HR every 9.06 ABs.

What changed?

2006-07-22 20:03:57
74.   Steve
73 -- D4P, Aaron Sele is the Dodgers #3 pitcher. I understand what your theory is, but it only gets you so far.
2006-07-22 20:04:06
75.   JeffWeaver4God
Vin Scully describing sunsets might be the most bizarre thing I have ever heard.
2006-07-22 20:04:26
76.   JoeyP
Something Aaron Sele cant figure out.
2006-07-22 20:04:41
77.   D4P
I guess I should do the math, huh?
2006-07-22 20:05:09
78.   regfairfield
73 If we want to go the completely legal route, Pujols is just now entering his prime. Maybe this is a Derrek Lee esque breakout season.
2006-07-22 20:08:09
79.   Steve
77 -- You finally have the long prophesied day when there is so much money being paid to so many bad pitchers that the whole thing has finally collapsed. The pitching market is NASDAQ. The only people who don't realize it are the GMs, and the poor sucker who trades into the teeth of this crash is going to get be jumping out a window just like they did in '29.
2006-07-22 20:12:25
80.   D4P
Where have all the good pitchers gone? The NBA...?
2006-07-22 20:12:36
81.   thinkingblue
Clutch hitter is overrated.

Clutch hitting is overrated.

Clutch hitting is overrated.

2006-07-22 20:13:33
82.   thinkingblue
You know, Juan Rivera has hit more homers than us this month.
2006-07-22 20:15:28
83.   D4P
Power is overrated.

Power is overrated.

Power is overrated.

2006-07-22 20:17:39
84.   Gen3Blue
Having a guy like Fat Albert almost makes you slump proof. I bet one of our prospects may eventually do that.
11 days before the prospects are safe!!!
2006-07-22 20:18:33
85.   Steve
The moral of the story is that if Aaron Sele is 6-2 with a sub-3 ERA, you better be 10 games up in the NL West, or you're going to come to a bad end.
2006-07-22 20:19:38
86.   trainwreck
I hope Neighbor Neddie realizes that we won't win a series in the playoffs so there is no point in trading away our prospects just to make it and lose.
2006-07-22 20:20:14
87.   D4P
If my team had first and third with no outs and my pitcher hitting, I'd be inclined to tell him not to swing during the entire AB.
2006-07-22 20:20:16
88.   skybluestoday
Watching the Dodgers season slip through our fingers over the last couple of weeks has been a singularly depressing experience. I used to be a Red Sox fan (having been bred in Boston) but in some way this is worse. Sigh.
2006-07-22 20:21:43
89.   thinkingblue

Both are required, but I'd rather have power.

But still, this is absoultly embarrassing. How can we possibly not even hit Weaver.

2006-07-22 20:21:59
90.   JoeyP
Clutch hitting is overrated.

Thinkingblue I think has grown alot as fan this year. Welcome aboard TB.

2006-07-22 20:23:13
91.   scareduck
73 - clearly, Pujols is juicing.

Don't ask me how I know, I just do.

2006-07-22 20:23:19
92.   regfairfield
88 We've slipped a game and a half back since the All Star Break. Thanks to the NL West, you can be absolutely terrible and still have a good shot at making the playoffs.
2006-07-22 20:24:03
93.   scareduck
83 - this is a joke?
2006-07-22 20:25:05
94.   scareduck
89 - lather, rinse, repeat for all the other pitchers the Dodgers have seen lately. It's called a slump.
2006-07-22 20:25:10
95.   ddger
Even Weaver looks great against our anemic offense. Every opposing pitcher must be so happy to pitch against us these days.
2006-07-22 20:25:12
96.   regfairfield
Every team needs clutch hitting, it's one of the most important things you can have. It's just something you can't plan for.
2006-07-22 20:25:20
97.   JeffWeaver4God
to 91, since i dont know how to do the fancy hot linking thing.

its nice to see that a black man hitting home runs. so, of course he is juicing.

2006-07-22 20:26:56
98.   JoeyP
Are everyone's sarcasm detectors off tonite?

Mine still works, and I think 91 and 83 are registering rather strong returns.

2006-07-22 20:27:01
99.   JeffWeaver4God
i typed black...i am an idiot, i meant a non-white person.
2006-07-22 20:27:11
100.   scareduck
97 - said in extreme irony, and the continuation of another discussion from an older thread. I was afraid somebody might take it literally.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-22 20:27:44
101.   JeffWeaver4God
not a regular...

i am sorry.

2006-07-22 20:29:44
102.   ddger
We are starving for HRs and StL hits 3 on us tonight. Wonder when we will hit one.
2006-07-22 20:30:19
103.   D4P
this is a joke?

No, this is a joke.

4, 0, 12, 6, 4, 3, 0, 4, 0

2006-07-22 20:30:42
104.   regfairfield
I don't know much, but the one thing I'm sure of is that Pujols isn't black.
2006-07-22 20:31:27
105.   Steve
103 -- The number of Colletti mustache jokes on DT in each inning?
2006-07-22 20:31:50
106.   Claire Malone-Evans
The Dodger lineup has 34 homers this year.Albert Pujois now has 32 homers, but there are still 5 innings to play.
2006-07-22 20:32:02
107.   King of the Hobos
If anyone still cares about Navarro, he had a nice night. He went 3-3 with 2 walks, and caught 2 of 3 baserunners. He had 3 of Tampa Bay's 17 hits, but the Orioles managed to outhit them with 22 hits. Brian Meadows got the save for the Rays by pitching 2.1 innings, somehow not allowing a run despite allowing 6 baserunners.
2006-07-22 20:34:10
108.   JeffWeaver4God
Was Navarro part of the brown-weaver,brazoban trade, or the greene one?
2006-07-22 20:35:10
109.   D4P
The number of Colletti mustache jokes on DT in each inning?

If that were the case, there would be no zeroes.

2006-07-22 20:35:10
110.   trainwreck
Green trade.
2006-07-22 20:35:14
111.   Steve
If anyone still cares about Navarro, he had a nice night.

Anyone heard from Toby Hall lately? What kind of season is he having? The soul of any pennant contender is Toby Hall.

2006-07-22 20:35:43
112.   regfairfield
108 Shawn Green and 10 million dollars for Navarro, Danny Muegge, William Juarez, and Beltran Perez.
2006-07-22 20:35:43
113.   bhsportsguy
Look, first how much did Aaron Sele cost us, hmmm.

Second, the only reason this team won at all during the first half was their offense which we all knew was dangerously predicated on guys getting hits with men on base. That was why this team struggled against good pitching and now they are struggling against everybody.

During the first half, Russ Martin, Aybar or Izzy would have got a hit in that first inning to really set up the inning.

After Nomar got a hit in their first at-bat with man in scoring position, they have again gone cold going 0-7. Last night, I witnessed them go 0-10.

So sure, Sele and Lowe have not helped during this streak but nothing hurts a team like a hitting slump, it affects everything connected to the team.

As to whether this team is buyers or sellers, I say neither. I only see three guys that have some value to trade and even those guys probably won't move due to roster considerations.

1. Iztirus - possible but I still think he will be here for the season.
2. Baez - Don't laugh, the way bullpens are today, he could be in a deal though it would be hard to see him go through waivers so probably only before July 31st.
3. My surprise candidate is Derek Lowe, though his recent performances and the fact he has 3 more years on a contract would say no but he has that post-season experience and maybe the Yanks or even Boston could want him.

Other than that, there are too many holes for one deal to cure. If Jim Bowden gets desparate and wants only Joel Guzman for Soriano, than I might do that but other than that, I just don't see much out there.

2006-07-22 20:36:20
114.   King of the Hobos
108 The Green one. The only player you didn't mention in the Weaver-Brown deal was Brandon Weeden.
2006-07-22 20:39:27
115.   Benaiah
I keep seeing snarky comments about how Weaver is the perfect cure to what is ailing the dodgers, but realistically the reverse is true. We have a horrible offense in many ways, basically three or four pitcher spots on any given day. Good thing we have the staff and bullpen to make up for our htting shortcomings... oh wait.
2006-07-22 20:40:59
116.   King of the Hobos
I just realized Scott Spiezio is playing second, when did that happen? Too bad Grady didn't counter by letting Saenz play third.
2006-07-22 20:42:03
117.   Steve
the only reason this team won at all during the first half was their offense which we all knew was dangerously predicated on guys getting hits with men on base.

Sir, everyone knows that Ned Colletti is why we won in the first half. He is genius personified, and the only reason I haven't built a golden replication of his likeness in my backyard is that I ran out of gold building Jim Tracy's.

2006-07-22 20:42:18
118.   King of the Hobos
116 My terrible "joke" (or whatever you call it) was destroyed by my own typo. I meant Saenz playing second, which would be pretty entertaining.
2006-07-22 20:44:27
119.   D4P
Just build a likeness out of stone and get Midas himself to come over and touch it.
2006-07-22 20:44:41
120.   JeffWeaver4God
Man, I forgot how much I hate the cardinals. Spiezo, Eckstein, Edmonds, Tony LaRussa. Cant get much worse than that.
2006-07-22 20:45:14
121.   Nagman
From the Times' Healy article which somebody mentioned earlier (and one of my favorite Healy soundbites):

"There was Charles Barkley, uttering his famous: 'Bad team, man. Bad [bleeping] team.'"

Hey, my thoughts exactly.

2006-07-22 20:45:25
122.   dkminnick
From the piece on Drew's injury:

"He iced the injury after the game and got into a hypothermic chamber at home afterward."

Has Drew moved to Neverland Ranch? Has anyone out there ever known anyone with any kind of "chamber"' at home?

I aspire to one - I don't care what kind it is.

2006-07-22 20:45:36
123.   D4P
And to think: we once led this game 1-0.
2006-07-22 20:47:05
124.   MartinBillingsley31
9 more days for ned to stay away from the phones.
Its amazing that it is so clear what would help this team, but ned/grady just don't get it.
And when i say help this team, i mean help to make a push to win the division but not the world series, only trading away the future will make us competitive for a world series.
This team lacks power and pitching.
Pitching i have no in-house solutions for.
But power can come from bringing up kemp, laroche, and guzman, and bringing repko back.
And dropping some dead weight like izturis, lofton, ledee, cruz, alomar, martinez, i can go on and on, and i'm not saying drop all the dead weight, just enough to open roster spots for the names i mentioned above.
2006-07-22 20:47:27
125.   bhsportsguy
117 Sir, why is it when anyone tries to make a point is becomes an opportunity to knock the GM.

After the All-Star break it has been the Giants and the D-Backs turn, Fortunately again the team with lead in the division has decided to go in the tank, Padres are on their way to 2-7.

After tonight, I can go back to my usual position of rooting against the Giants.

2006-07-22 20:47:28
126.   JeffWeaver4God
Hypothermic chamber sounds like a fancy word for freezer.
2006-07-22 20:48:35
127.   JeffWeaver4God
Hypothermic Chamber sounds like a fancy word for freezer.
2006-07-22 20:48:57
128.   JeffWeaver4God
I have to stop drinking when posting.
2006-07-22 20:51:47
129.   regfairfield
124 LaRoche is slugging under .480 in AAA. is down, but I know that Guzman is not doing well. Kemp was terrible after his hot start, and despite that hot start, doesn't have a much higher VORP rate than Kenny Lofton, and is somehow worse defensively. Repko is Repko.

The farm system was expected to contribute in 2007, I don't think any of the listed players will help.

2006-07-22 20:52:15
130.   Steve
One needs no specific opportunity to knock the GM. It is a God-given right of fanhood, and in the case of our GM, an extremely compelling one.
2006-07-22 20:53:27
131.   trainwreck
This game makes me want to drink.
2006-07-22 20:53:34
132.   Jon Weisman
I must confess I didn't like Healy back then. For me, he might as well have been T.J. Simers - almost all snark - and the sound bites were so repetitive. But absence and nostalgia make the heart go fonder.
2006-07-22 20:53:55
133.   D4P
Repko is Repko

But is Repko Repko? I mean, who is the real Repko: last year's version, or this year's? Maybe he got a lot better since last year. If Albert can do it, why can't Ja(y)son...?

2006-07-22 20:53:56
134.   Gen3Blue
It is time to realize that we may finish worse than the 2005 D's. I doubt it, I think this is a slump, and we will return to some better level. Also, we have a terrific line-up at Las Vegas.
I can't remember exactly when I resigned myself last year or after which injuries, but I think it was earlier. Anywho, the division is so bad I'm hanging in there but it is a short stroll to "go for the draft pick!". 11 days.
2006-07-22 20:55:35
135.   regfairfield
134 I think the offical resignation point last year was July 3rd, when Drew broke his wrist.

The Dodgers have gone 16-26 since June 2nd, and have fallen 2.5 games back.

2006-07-22 20:55:53
136.   Gen3Blue
The Giants win and go into first place
This game makes me drink.
2006-07-22 20:57:00
137.   DaveP
129 - LaRoche is slugging .522 in AAA with a .392 OBP. He's been solid in AAA and I think the next in line to help out on the major league team.
2006-07-22 20:57:03
138.   Steve
almost all snark


2006-07-22 20:57:19
139.   regfairfield
To finish worse than last year, we'd have to go 23-42 the rest of the way.
2006-07-22 20:57:28
140.   Nagman
On the bright side, we can only lose a half game in the standings to first place.
2006-07-22 20:57:35
141.   Gen3Blue
Reg: sounds about right. Only 2.5 games--thats incredable.
2006-07-22 20:57:36
142.   King of the Hobos
129 Laroche is slugging .535 in Vegas, and .483 in Jacksonville.
2006-07-22 20:57:41
143.   MartinBillingsley31

Can anyone be worse than izturis and lofton, and so far this season both cruz and ledee are performing like slap hitters.
We need power, laroche/ kemp/guzman/loney/repko > izturis/lofton/cruz/ledee in power.

By the way i left loney off the list in my last post by accident.

2006-07-22 20:58:23
144.   regfairfield
137 He was at .281/.388/.471 on July 19th, has he been on fire since then?
2006-07-22 21:00:17
145.   King of the Hobos
144 Over the last 3 games he has a homer and 2 doubles. The low number of ABs allowed him to raise it fast.
2006-07-22 21:00:24
146.   DaveP
144 - he's hitting .310 right now and picked up another double tonight.
2006-07-22 21:00:49
147.   D4P
DJ's a gamer.
2006-07-22 21:00:56
148.   regfairfield
Ah, okay. Sorry about that.
2006-07-22 21:01:11
149.   underdog
Yep, the Giants are in first place. Colletti's plan is working! Er, if he was still with the Giants that is.


I need a drink, too.

I am firmly not in the "this year's team will have a worse record than last year's team" camp. But it is still painful to watch this slump.

2006-07-22 21:02:00
150.   underdog
Please JD, please for the love of dog, please do something that isn't an out.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-22 21:02:15
151.   Gen3Blue
I woudn't mind if we worked the bugs out of the Vegas boys and brought up Laroche, Loney, and Kemp all at once next year. What a team.
2006-07-22 21:03:52
152.   JeffWeaver4God
All this back and forth makes me think of Rick Pitino and I think its time for Grady Little to pull a page out of Pitino's book and just go, "Sandy Koufax isnt walking through that door, Jackie Robinson isn't walking through that door, Eric Gagne isn't walking through that door......."
2006-07-22 21:04:05
153.   underdog
...or don't. See if I care.

sigh Did I mention I need a drink? I'm going to watch the end of Fargo now and forget about this game, yah.

2006-07-22 21:04:51
154.   King of the Hobos
Carlos Quentin hit his second homer for the DBacks today.
2006-07-22 21:09:35
155.   the OZ
Did Cararra just strike Duncan out with a screwball?
2006-07-22 21:10:18
156.   underdog
Quentin could be pulling a Kemp - get off to a hot start until opposing pitchers figure out a weakness and exploit it. On the other hand, I kind of hope Kemp can come back soon and at least give us some power potential. Even potential is good at this point. Some hope.

Help us Obi Wan.

2006-07-22 21:11:37
157.   D4P
It's a shame to see Gio's talents wasted on a team like this...
2006-07-22 21:12:20
158.   MartinBillingsley31
We litteraly have 1 legit power hitter in our lineup today (nomar), and the book is still out on ethier on whether he is or not, then we have cruz who in the past was a power hitter, but so far this season isn't, the rest either can pop a homer here and there but aren't power hitters or in izturis and lofton's cases are unable to hit any homers.

Bring up some power hitters already.

2006-07-22 21:13:28
159.   bhsportsguy
147 LaRoche had a poor April, .226/.340/.331 but since then in combined AA/AAA games, he has gone .332/.431/.545, he has walked more than he has struck out (29 K/37 BB) since the end of April.

While it seems like he is more on pace to hit 20-25 homers in a full season than Schmidt like numbers, he does appear to do well once he gets adjusted.

2006-07-22 21:13:43
160.   D4P
The cries for "power" are wasted on the ears of those who seek to build a team instead on "speed and athleticism."
2006-07-22 21:13:52
161.   scareduck
122 - whatever it is, it sounds cold:

2006-07-22 21:14:59
162.   scareduck
160 - what happened? Did I go away and suddenly an Angels game broke out?
2006-07-22 21:15:26
163.   natepurcell
Laroche's OPS now is 944

torn labrum be darned.

2006-07-22 21:15:35
164.   MartinBillingsley31
The cries for "power" are wasted on the ears of those who seek to build a team instead on "speed and athleticism."

Exactly, poor philosophy.

2006-07-22 21:16:05
165.   the OZ
149 Last year's team was forced to use its sixth player on the depth chart at a position or two; during the KC series, I remember the Dodgers had $2M in total player payroll (that's $2,000,000,000,000 nanodollars) in the starting lineup.

The 2006 team has had many of its players on the field so far, often with quality rookie backups. That's what makes the losing so much more disheartening.

2006-07-22 21:16:35
166.   D4P
Technically, I didn't say "scrappy," but I guess that was probably implicit.
2006-07-22 21:16:41
167.   trainwreck
Quentin is far more advanced than Kemp.
2006-07-22 21:17:24
168.   Steve
160 -- Not to mention the Boy Scout Oath.
2006-07-22 21:17:53
169.   Blu2
160 Instead of speed and athleticism, make that mediocrity and veteran ism.
2006-07-22 21:18:55
170.   thinkingblue
Well, Furcal looking, and Kenny swinging.

My prediction for tomorrow:

Dodgers 2
Cardnials 3

Billinsley with 6 innings, 2 runs, Marquis with 7 innings, 2 runs, and Baez blows the game.

2006-07-22 21:19:13
171.   natepurcell

Well Quentin is also 24 and Matt is 21. Quentin, like Ethier, should be pretty solid in his first year since they are basically ready now.

Is Ethier is the only bright spot for this team right now?

2006-07-22 21:21:38
172.   trainwreck
Martin is a bright spot.
2006-07-22 21:21:59
173.   thinkingblue
Dodgers, please get rid of as much of the Baez', Lofton's, Izzys, and maybe Nomar's as you can.

Then, call up LaRoche, even if he put up the Jax numbers, he would be usefull. Izzy couldn't hit a ham sandwich (yes I know, that joke's getting old).

2006-07-22 21:22:20
174.   MartinBillingsley31
13 million for a shortstop, and a shortstop that doesn't produce.
I'd much rather have aybar at shortstop, yes defensive doesn't really matter to me, look where its getting us this year and look where it got us in 2003 with the best pitching by far to boot.
2006-07-22 21:22:39
175.   underdog
I do think Repko replacing Lofton in CF will help things, even on offense (though not enough to suddenly fix anything obviously). It's important to remember that although we've had a better team on the field at times from last year, and certainly have had more rookies available to step in to help, they've also lost a lot of games to the DL this year, echoes of last. I believe the second most in the league. It's nearly impossible to maintain momentum in pitching and hitting when you have this schizophrenic lineup shuffling going on all the time.
2006-07-22 21:22:58
176.   regfairfield
Hey have the payroll of the entire active roster on July 6th last year at $34,750,000. Less than three million was in the starting lineup, 26 million was going to the rotation.
2006-07-22 21:23:40
177.   underdog
Are we bringing up the "How much ____ is overpaid" discussion again?


Night folks.

2006-07-22 21:23:44
178.   Jeromy
It is going to be depressing to lose this game to Jeff Weaver.
2006-07-22 21:24:00
179.   natepurcell
Then, call up LaRoche, even if he put up the Jax numbers, he would be usefull.


yea you're right, 309/.419/.483 would only be just "usefull"

2006-07-22 21:24:30
180.   Blu2
I have been advocating moving Nomar to third and bringing up Loney. Some mired in tradition say don't move him while he is hitting so well. Now that he is in a slump, is it OK to move him? Possibly the 'movement' will break him out of the slump. Another real bat to replace Izzy would sure be nice.
2006-07-22 21:24:41
181.   MartinBillingsley31
defensive was suppose to say defense in post 174.

I'm cranky, sorry.

2006-07-22 21:25:56
182.   scareduck
Takes bad routes to ball.
2006-07-22 21:25:58
183.   natepurcell
Vin's finally calling out Lofton on his atrocious defense.
2006-07-22 21:26:10
184.   thinkingblue
And Kenny misplays a fly ball again.


He might be usefull on the White Sox, but with us he is plain awful.

2006-07-22 21:26:14
185.   bill cox
122:Did you see the item in the LA Times gossip column this morning?

What oft injured Dodger outfielder was spotted after the game in a hypothermal chamber with Marty's dog?

2006-07-22 21:26:36
186.   dkminnick
Since this game (and slump) is too painful for me to discuss right now, allow me to raise this question:

Is it possible there is some connection between all of the "oblique" injuries around the league this year and some new training/exercise techinique? Namely "core strength"?

Isn't Nomar a behind-the-scenes poster guy for a "core" oriented trainer?

Seems reasonable, since there is a new emphasis on this kind of trainng.

On another note: Kenny Lofton looks absolutely lost. My god.

2006-07-22 21:26:42
187.   Vaudeville Villain
Vin Scully now commenting on Kenny Lofton's bad defense.

He just misplayed a ball BADLY.

2006-07-22 21:26:54
188.   natepurcell
Loney's been walking a bit lately. his bb/k ratio is now 28:24 in 302 ABs.
2006-07-22 21:27:25
189.   King of the Hobos
Tomko just pitched an inning. It took him 15 pitches (10 for strikes) to retire the side. He struck out two batters, but allowed two base hits. I wasn't listening, so I have no idea how fast he was throwing.
2006-07-22 21:27:26
190.   thinkingblue
Kenny with the stop and go pattern in the outfield...
2006-07-22 21:27:35
191.   scareduck
And thus does Gio get out of an inning.
2006-07-22 21:28:28
192.   ddger
Does one lose their ability to judge flyballs with age? Was Lofton like this in his younger days?
2006-07-22 21:28:53
193.   Steve

Oh, blow it out...

2006-07-22 21:29:36
194.   D4P
Juan E. has as many HRs this year as the Dodger leader in said category.
2006-07-22 21:30:27
195.   Vaudeville Villain
Ethier hit that one pretty hard, but BABIP regression is a harsh mistress.
2006-07-22 21:31:10
196.   underdog
192 No, Lofton was a much better fielder when he was younger, in fact a gold glover. So apparently, yes one does lose their ability to judge flyballs. Maybe he needs glasses?

Btw, the Rockies were one of Sports Illustrated's picks this past week for teams that could be most dangerous in the second half, and they've been even worse than the Dodgers have for the past 10 days. Which means, SI's missed it, and/or the Rockies could still pull things together, and if they can, the Dodgers still can, too.

2006-07-22 21:31:28
197.   ddger
Taguchi just showed how a major league outfielder should catch a flyball.
2006-07-22 21:31:33
198.   King of the Hobos
192 I didn't watch Lofton in his younger days, but if I had to guess, I'd say his speed during his youth allowed him to make errors of judgement and still catch the ball. Now that he's lost a step, he's still fast, but not nearly fast enough.
2006-07-22 21:31:55
199.   thinkingblue
Repko is Repko?

If there's a Russell in your fifth spot
Don't be alarmed now.
It's just a shake up of the line up.
Yes there are four outs you can count on
But in the long run
There'll soon be a Repko to come on.

2006-07-22 21:32:03
200.   Steve
196 -- I'll vote the former.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-22 21:32:31
201.   thinkingblue
caught looking, we've just given up huh?
2006-07-22 21:33:39
202.   trainwreck
2006-07-22 21:33:46
203.   Vaudeville Villain
2006-07-22 21:33:50
204.   dkminnick
180 - I like it.

We have NO power now. Something must be done - and preferably from within.

I'm an advocate of bringing up the kids and letting them play. If we don't win ths year, we'll be better set for next year.

I think Dodger fans, in general, would rather root for home-grown products - despite what A. Martinez and other commentators may say. It's one of the only traditions we have left.

2006-07-22 21:33:51
205.   underdog
Yes, I think SI's missed it, or jinxed it, with the Rockies. I still think things will turn around for the Dodgers, though, even if there's little reason for optimism at the moment.
2006-07-22 21:34:06
206.   bhsportsguy
The division will be won in the 37-40 games left that each team will have in the division. If it goes outside the division, most teams play about 10 games with teams with winning records in NL Central or the Mets.

From what has been going on thus far, each one of these teams can win 12 out of 16 or lose 14 out of 18. Right now the Padres can't pitch, Dodgers can't do anything, the Rockies lack of offense has caught up with them.

The Giants and D-Backs have both come out of the cellar to now head the division but that could change next week.

The Dodgers now have to go into getting back to .500 and not worry about anything else, If they don't leave next town on the 31st at .500 or better, then you can circle the wagons.

2006-07-22 21:36:09
207.   thinkingblue
The Venezualen lord of walks ;)
2006-07-22 21:37:02
208.   bhsportsguy
189 I think the key will be how he feels tomorrow and will he be effective on Monday. I am guessing he was just throwing strikes and trying to get them to miss it.
2006-07-22 21:37:17
209.   Steve
I think Dodger fans, in general, would rather root for home-grown products

But Tampa is so far away.

2006-07-22 21:38:09
210.   dkminnick
209 - LOL
2006-07-22 21:39:00
211.   underdog
206 Yeah, one thing about the Giants is that they play a big hunk of games on the road in the waning months, including a couple of tough trips to the East coast. With their geriatric set, it could be tough on them. On the other hand, now that they have Hillenbrand, I'm sure none of this will be a problem and they will win out.
2006-07-22 21:40:33
212.   thinkingblue
high strike...
2006-07-22 21:42:29
213.   underdog
My kingdom for a "In play - run scoring play".

Sigh. Back to Fargo. I'm really going this time. Night.

2006-07-22 21:46:01
214.   Blu2
I'm taking the pledge: No more comments till they win a game. (Must score at least 4 runs) Don't suppose Jon would like it if everyone did it...
2006-07-22 21:47:28
215.   Gen3Blue
On the bright side, we can't be shut out again tonight.
2006-07-22 21:48:08
216.   thinkingblue
the guy the birds are bringing in has an ERA over 6.

So of course, we'll go down 1-2-3

2006-07-22 21:48:19
217.   Vaudeville Villain
Tell it to hell is it
I feel my brain swell like meningitis
With the slightest mind motion
Givin me the notion
That I got it bad
I think I got a brain tumor
Brain rumor
Such a pain to analyze the strain and then understand it
2006-07-22 21:48:47
218.   King of the Hobos
214 Actually, with the negativity and whatnot, he might actually like it.
2006-07-22 21:49:02
219.   underdog
214 Not sure he'd mind, actually. ;-) We're all kind of depressing.

Wait, wasn't I going? I think my g/f switching the TV to another horrid Sci Fi channel movie kept me logged in.

2006-07-22 21:50:34
220.   trainwreck
I called it last time and I am doing it again...

Billingsley will snap the streak.

2006-07-22 21:52:52
221.   Gen3Blue
If things continue, the best hitters tonight have been Ethier,Cruz and Izturis, statistically. Whats that say.
2006-07-22 21:53:39
222.   underdog
220 I hope so but I'm not saying anything, not even about the hittable opposing pitcher going tomorrow, either. Because for the past couple of nights I've said, "If they can't hit against _____" then they're really slumping and look where that got us. So I'm saying nothing and keeping my hopes real low at this point.
2006-07-22 21:54:41
223.   Steve
Winning breeds chemistry. Losing breeds long discourses as to the racial tensions gripping St. Louis.
2006-07-22 21:55:07
224.   DaveP
221 - I think it says that Ethier, Cruz and Izturis had decent games, but I could be wrong. Is it a trick question?
2006-07-22 21:55:54
225.   underdog
Watching the Dodger the past two weeks is like a version of the film Groundhog Day. Every mornning we wake up and "I Got You" is playing and the same day happens over and over again. Maybe the Dodgers need to sincerely fall in love and then they'll break out of the loop.
2006-07-22 21:56:52
226.   thinkingblue

even with a small sample size, it's bad

2006-07-22 21:59:02
227.   trainwreck
Maybe this all has a purpose, like we are being bad on purpose, like SNAKES ON A PLANE.
2006-07-22 22:03:38
228.   underdog
Btw, Brett Tomko pitched a scoreless inning tonight in Vegas - gave up 2 hits and struck out two in relief.
2006-07-22 22:04:10
229.   underdog
... and Andy LaRoche is 3 for 4 (game is still going).
2006-07-22 22:04:39
230.   MartinBillingsley31
furcal 684 ops (bad for any position)
lofton 731 ops (bad for an outfielder)
nomar 950 ops (good)
ethier 912 ops (good)
martin 789 ops (good for a catcher)
aybar 783 ops (good for a 2b)
izturis 675 ops (bad for any position)
cruz 739 ops (bad for an outfielder)

On top of a bad pitching staff, we are in trouble until something in-house is done.

2006-07-22 22:05:48
231.   thinkblue0
we might as well sell off whatever older players that have value....and let's hope our country bumpkin GM doesn't go out and trade prospects for another garbage veteran that we don't need.
2006-07-22 22:06:55
232.   MartinBillingsley31
we might as well sell off whatever older players that have value....and let's hope our country bumpkin GM doesn't go out and trade prospects for another garbage veteran that we don't need.

Amen to that.

2006-07-22 22:06:56
233.   underdog
Sorry, I know y'all are angry, and frustrated, but "country bumpkin GM"? Seems a little cruel and baseless. But if it makes you feel better... ;-)
2006-07-22 22:08:36
234.   trainwreck
Im pretty sure he's from New York.
2006-07-22 22:11:26
235.   thinkingblue

for some reason, I fear a Guzman for Maddux trade, but maybe I'm just paranoid...

2006-07-22 22:13:48
236.   trainwreck
You have a reason to be paranoid.
2006-07-22 22:15:40
237.   Jon Weisman
225 is the best theory I've heard.
2006-07-22 22:16:57
238.   thinkblue0

I call him a country bumpkin because that's just how he comes off to me.

I try to be positive as much as possible...I know this isn't a world series team...but when we have a GM, who besides the Eithier trade, has made awful move after awful move I have a hard time being positive.

The thing is, right now we should all be ecstatic...we're on the cusp of showing the rest of the league our young players....I have a hard time being ecstatic when our GM is getting guys like Mueller, Lofton, Hendrickson, Tomko etc etc etc.

We have a lot of money coming off the books this year and I'm almost already depressed at the thought of what Colletti is going to do with it.

2006-07-22 22:18:35
239.   bhsportsguy
Oh boy, player's only meeting going on, I wonder who called it.
2006-07-22 22:18:35
240.   Steve
Come now, we can do better than this. For example, Nate says:

Is Ethier is the only bright spot for this team right now?

And the response should be something like:

Yeah, if you don't count the bright spot under Colletti's hairpiece

Let's get creative out there, people.

2006-07-22 22:28:59
241.   underdog
Just playing devil's advocate here because I have some nervousness about Colletti, too (though more confidence than some of you do obviously), but which of the Dodgers top prospects has he traded away again? If you count, Navarro, and I actually don't, that'd be one, or none. One of the reasons he hasn't made a trade yet is because he's been unwilling to part with most of our favorite blue chip players, which is what GMs have been asking for . Until he does start trading off the Dodgers' top prospects, my point is maybe we have less to worry about there than we think. Now Guzman and a few others could be fair game, and it depends on for who they'd net in return. But I think some of the veterans he's acquired have been risky but not super expensive players who were meant to help supplement and buffer until more of the youth was ready to contribute full time.

I'm about as pessimistic as you about this season but pretty optimistic about the future.

And now I leave you all to clean the litter box and then go to sleep.

(Until I hear "I Got You Babe" on the radio and it's time to get up again.)

2006-07-22 22:34:31
242.   trainwreck
Where did you hear about the players only meeting?
2006-07-22 22:46:36
243.   JoeyP
The Dodgers now have to go into getting back to .500 and not worry about anything else, If they don't leave next town on the 31st at .500 or better, then you can circle the wagons.

This season has gone pretty much exactly how I thought it would. But in terms of winning the division from this point, I think one has to look at upside regarding each team. The Dbax have it, if they keep playing their rookies. The Padres have it, mainly bc they are still above .500 and have gotten an atrocious season out of Jake Peavy in doing it. He's 4-10 with an ERA near 5.00. There's upside in that a dominant pitcher wont be terrible for the entire season.

What is the Dodgers' upside? Who's going to improve off their 1st half performance? Odalis is the only guy I can think of, and he's not even in the rotation. The BA w RISP was due to regress, and the pitching just isnt that great. Even Derek Lowe was pitching way above his head the first 2-3 months of the year.

This was a poor team in 2005, but mainly bc of injuries. However, the starting pitching was not improved, while the offense got weaker (power-wise), older, and more expensive. Just an overall bad job all around.

I'm looking forward to who the new GM and manager will be next year, if the McCourts still to their previous management philosophy.

2006-07-22 22:52:20
244.   Benaiah
This team was built like putting all of your chips on one square in roulette, you might win big but only if everything goes right. When your team is a) your best hitter being extremely injury prone b) your best pitcher being extremely injury prone (note I love Penny, I am just saying) c) your best hitter last year is now 38 (and consequently injury prone d) your #2 starter has a 4.44 ERA over the past three years e) your starting first baseman hasn't quite played 162 games in the past two years put together (oh yeah and he's actually a shortstop f) your closer has severe arm problems g) your CF is 39 h)your 3B is 35 and injury prone (plus he played in an extreme hitter's park for the past 3 years inflating his stats) h) your #3 starter has a 4.24 career ERA and is flakey to say the least. This all leads to: i) your SS has a DUI j) your fourth starter strikes out no one and is was a miracle that he had a good ERA last year k) your fifth starter is washed up l) your catchers are either rookies or Sandy Alomar Jr m) the rest of your bullpen is bullsh!t n) the rest of your outfield consists of a has been (Cruz) and a never was (Ledee). Now there were some additions from the farm and Hendrickson on top of this starting lineup, but if you are counting on all of that to win anything, you aren't counting on winning anything. Yet somehow, we had a good offense for a little while and so we pretended that the master plan was working... well if the proof is in the pudding then i have to say that lately I think the pudding is tasting a wee bit overripe. I just hope that Flanders don't bet the farm on somehow making to round of getting swept out of the playoffs.
2006-07-22 22:53:15
245.   JoeyP
We have a lot of money coming off the books this year and I'm almost already depressed at the thought of what Colletti is going to do with it.

I'm more concerned with the money that is guaranteed to mediocre players next year, and I'm none to confident that Ned will be able to move their salaries. Izzy, Mueller, Hendrickson, Tomko= 17 mils worth of very hard to move parts. One good thing DePo did was cut the "average" player out of the Dodgers system, by moving arbitration eligible players like Loduca, Cora, Mota, and a big money guy like Shawn Green. I'm not sure if Ned is too good at the art of salary dumping, and he'll need to be unless the McCourts up payroll substantially.

We need that extra cap space to make a move. I know quite a bit is coming off, but some guys are set to get raises like Kent, OP, Tomko, and Hendrickson. Its just a bad situation all the way around.

2006-07-22 23:00:47
246.   regfairfield
Before arbitration eligible players, the Dodgers are on the hook for at least 81 million dollars next year. Since I can't think of anyone who would be arbitration elgible, if we go into next season with only players making the league minimum, we add another five million to the payroll.

The Dodgers start next year at 86 million dollars, I don't know if we can do all that much with that.

2006-07-22 23:02:14
247.   regfairfield
Wait, Hendrickson is. He's probably going to get a raise, so well be at 87-88 next year.
2006-07-22 23:02:44
248.   JoeyP
but which of the Dodgers top prospects has he traded away again? If you count, Navarro, and I actually don't, that'd be one, or none.

Ned's gotten rid or gave up on the following young players. In so doing, he also gave money to expensive mediocre veterans that did not improve the team, but rather just added more financial in-flexibility for the future:

Choi, Bradley, Perez, Jackson, Tiffany, Schmoll, Ross, Navarro, Ruggiano, and Houlton.

but not super expensive players who were meant to help supplement and buffer until more of the youth

Well, its been a complete waste of time and I'd say a failure.

2006-07-22 23:03:29
249.   JoeyP
Carp, I forgot to add Duaner Sanchez, probably the best youngster that Ned gave up.
2006-07-22 23:12:56
250.   dbenzen
Ned is brain dead. This is a copy cat of the teams the Giants put together, without the Barry Bonds centerpiece.

Bring Kemp back up. Dump the old guys and get ready for 2007. I've had it with this GM and all this old school thinking.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-22 23:22:07
251.   MartinBillingsley31
The Dodgers start next year at 86 million dollars, I don't know if we can do all that much with that.

We are at close to 110 million right now.
Leaving close to 24 million available.
Plus if we can dump tomko and izturis.
Plus if mueller's contract is insured.
We don't need much, we just need to promote the prospects, add 2 starting pitchers (zito, schmidt) and re-sign nomar or give loney 1b.

But i agree that ned did a piss poor job with money.

The key is the starting rotation, we have plenty of offense if the prospects are promoted and everyone stays healthy.

2006-07-22 23:39:18
252.   Gen3Blue
Calling Sanchez a youngster is a bit of a stretch. :o)
And as much as we can bitch about this slump, I see some very new names putting the D's down, and that can't happen.
2006-07-22 23:47:06
253.   StolenMonkey86
Nomar's birthday is tomorrow.
2006-07-22 23:50:44
254.   thinkblue0

I actually don't think unloading Izzy, Tomko (whom my friend calls Tomkowned since he stinks..."you just got Tomkowned" is his fav phrase) and Hendrickson will be hard.

If we can unload those parts, it ups the money we can spend by a decent amount. Everyone keeps talking about the prospects that were given up weren't great...I absolutely agree with that, the problem is we gave them up for bad players who make more. Why not just give Jackson Baez's job? He couldn't possibly do much worse. That's the philosophy I don't get...Ned gets garbage veterans who make more when a rookie could do just as bad for 300K

Giving Kent the extension was the biggest mistake I could think of. I wonder if that guy has any trade value this offseason...doubtful...but if we could unload him with the rest, Soriano and Schmidt wouldn't be out of the question.

At this point, I'd unload players and get anything for them. We're not keeping Lofton anyways...why not just get a random prospect for him and give Kemp every day AB's? It's sad to say, but Baez might actually have value...why not ditch him for anything?

I've been holding off judgment on Ned for a while...thankfully he hasn't traded away top prospects, but the trades he HAS made and the signings he's made are just downright bad.

2006-07-22 23:51:28
255.   underdog
"Choi, Bradley, Perez, Jackson, Tiffany, Schmoll, Ross, Navarro, Ruggiano, and Houlton."

I said which of the Dodgers top prospects did he trade away? I don't miss a single one of those players listed above (Houlton's still with them, in Vegas), with the possible exception of Navarro, and not that much.

That's all I had to add to this.

2006-07-22 23:59:24
256.   thinkblue0
I said which of the Dodgers top prospects did he trade away? I don't miss a single one of those players listed above (Houlton's still with them, in Vegas), with the possible exception of Navarro, and not that much.

that's not the point. The point is these guys were traded away for veterans who stink and make multiple times more money. If it's done once or biggie...but our 110 mill is filled up with a ton of garbage because our GM loves the veterans no matter how bad they are.

When Ned came in my biggest fear wasn't the prospects leaving, it was attaining bad old players who make a decent amount of fears came true.

2006-07-23 00:08:52
257.   Xeifrank
Jeff Weaver? Jeff Weaver?? Only one run against Jeff Weaver??? As "Dandy" Don Merideth would sing, "... turn out the lights, the party's over!". vr, Xei
2006-07-23 00:10:26
258.   StolenMonkey86
We should invite Jose Lima to the party.

Provided he does this.

2006-07-23 00:14:47
259.   JoeyP
I dont know. I remember how hard it was to find a taker for Kaz Ishii, and IIRC the Dodgers still had to pay a portion of his salary. Maybe Mueller gets picked by insurance. But Izzy, Tomko, Hendrickson just seem really really valueless. Who would trade for them?
2006-07-23 00:16:22
260.   JoeyP
257. When this game got over, I remember Xeifrank a post you made about a month ago when Izturis came back to the starting lineup. Something about this will the day when the team started to crumble.

Now, its not Izzy's complete fault the Dodgers are losing obvioulsy. I dont think anyone would blame him soley. But just the coincidence of his coming back, and the slide are very close.

2006-07-23 00:20:55
261.   Xeifrank
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the Dodgers don't win the World Series, Stanley Cup or Tour de France this year. This heat is really getting to me. Heard it was 119 in Woodland Hills today. Someone ask Bob to please turn down the heat.
vr, Xei
2006-07-23 00:27:02
262.   StolenMonkey86
I think the Dodger bats need some lovin.
2006-07-23 00:52:07
263.   sanchez101
261. I agree with your general midset that Ned (I still can't believe he's our GM) should have him mind set on 2007 and beyond. Martin is our catcher (he might be my favorite player by the way, but that is beside the point) for 2007, and Kemp, Ethier, and LaRoche should be our CF, LF, and 3B, respectively, on next years opening roster. In that case the lineup should be:

C: Martin
1B: ?
2B: ?
SS: Furcal
3B: LaRoche
LF: Ethier
CF: Kemp
RF: Drew/(whomever takes over for him when he gets injured)

Presumably 2B would be devoted to Kent, or perhaps Izturis if Kent's injury forces his retirement. Etanislao Abreu (I love that name, BTW) should provide some insurance if one of Kent or Izurtis doesn't cut it. The real question this offseason revolves around 1B: does Ned sign Nomar to the long term deal that he's certainly seeking or does he turn the position over to Loney, who Ned seems to admire (please don't mention JT Snow).

The question I have for the Dodger Thoughts community is; would you rather have Nomar or Loney and the extra $6-$10M of payroll that would be available? My gut tells me that Ned should let Nomar walk, but my gut has been wrong before. The thing to keep in mind here is that the starting staff seems to need at least one more starter (in addition to Penny, Lowe and Billingsley).

On a side note to Nate if he's here, what do you think of Jesus Castillo; I know Logan White mentioned him before the start of Rookie ball. And what do you think of the lower minor pitching depth of Kershaw, Morris, Johnson, and Wall (you can include Bastardo if you want)?

2006-07-23 00:55:10
264.   sanchez101
260. I agree with you for once, Izturis and the lossing stretch are not coincidental. But, if a team can be brought to its knees by establishing Izturis in the everyday lineup, then said team must not be very good to begin with.

Nomar has stuggled lately, as has Drew. Kent has been injured and the pitching staff has continued to suck. None of these things should be blamed on Izturis.

2006-07-23 00:55:16
265.   JeffWeaver4God
All I know is the Hendrickson, Hall for Navarro , Seo and $$ has got to be the worst trade this year (except for Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens). I am just glad I am not a Dodgers fan because the reason the franchise is going to continue to get worse is the ownership, its much like the Buffalo Bills, it doesnt matter what crap is put on the field people are still going to go out and watch it. (its a little different from the bills because, the dodgers aren't going to move to LA, like the bills are going to. {Because that happened 50 years ago for the Dodgers}) The McCourts know, that no matter what they put on the field they are making money, thats why they are trading awaiting prospects way before they are arribtration eligible, so they can inherit players in the last year of the contract and call up their minor leaguers who have been touted for the past two years as the deepest in baseball. It looks like the McCourts are running a Jeffery Loaria style of ownership.
2006-07-23 01:07:25
266.   sanchez101
265. I love the posts that make no sense and aren't able to follow their own logic. You can insult the McCourts all you want, but you can't really compare them to the LORIA ownership group, unless of course you don't know what in the world you're talking about.
2006-07-23 01:15:30
267.   JeffWeaver4God
266. The McCourts are different from Loaria because, the McCourts arent going to move the team. Other than that the McCourts are exactly like Jeff Loaria, a rich man who kept bidding for a team untill he finally got one and who is now running it as a brand other than a baseball team.
2006-07-23 01:20:14
268.   JeffWeaver4God
and your only retor to what i said was LORIA instead of loaria, and alright I spelled it wrong, but attacking my logic and then only using my spelling against me is a pretty weak argument.
2006-07-23 01:35:16
269.   sanchez101
The root problem of your McCourt-Loria comparison is that while Loria only cares about money and little about baseball, McCourt cares too much about public perception and too little about the long-term direction of the team. As far as your Bills/Dodgers comparison, the Dodgers spend money and operate in a relatively free market while the Bills operate in a small market with little finacial resources (compared to the Dodgers) and in a league with a significant payroll cap (compared to MLB). McCourt isnt trading away prospects, and even if you see Ned as Frank's proxy (which you shouldn't) trading away Tiffany and Jackson isnt all that bad because they arent exactly on track to be productive major leaguers and Navarro was expendable because of Martin. How do you explain the trade for Ethier or the fact that the vast majority of prospects have not been traded, or the earlier trade for Brazoban, also under McCourt's watch? I hate the Hendrickson trade, but there are much better comparisons to be made than the Buffalo Bills. If you are saying that the Dodgers are going to four consecutive World Series', then I'm not sure I get your point.
2006-07-23 01:41:27
270.   CanuckDodger
263 -- The question was directed at Nate, but I'll put in my two cents. Castillo is a guy to watch. His fastball sits in the low 90's and reaches 95, he has solid breaking stuff, and he has an advanced change-up. His command is quite solid. He was doing well in low A last year before needing Tommy John surgery. The performances we're seeing in Odgen indicate he has made a nice, and quick, recovery. I think he will pretty much skip low A and go to high A for the start of next year at the latest, and he could advance quickly from there.

Kershaw is an outstanding young pitcher, and so is Morris. The sky's the limit as far as their potential is concerned. Johnson and Wall I am concerned about right now because they both missed their turns in Ogden's rotation. They could be hurting. Anyway, they are opposites as pitching prospects. Johnson is unbelievably polished for his age, but is only 6'1" and his fastball is probably not going to get much better than its 90 MPH velocity, likely limiting his ceiling. Wall is 6'6" and thin as a bean pole. His frame is likely to get much stronger with age. He is all about projection, what he MIGHT become with age and experience. I don't know a thing about Alberto Bastardo scouting-wise, but I know all I need to know: his utterly fantasic name alone should guarantee that he is a Dodger for a long, long time. I won't even care if he sucks.

2006-07-23 01:45:07
271.   CanuckDodger
269 -- Evans acquired Brazoban when McCourt was early in the process of buying the Dodgers. I don't believe he had any hand at all in any moves Evans made that off-season, outside of vetoing the signing of Vlad Guerrero on money grounds.
2006-07-23 01:46:33
272.   dsfan
Certainly Izturis is responsible, oh yes, it's Izzy who brought down this juggernaut, not Drew, or Kent, or the rotation, or Lofton's defense. Yep, it's Izzy, the guy who hadn't played for a year, is sailing in uncharted waters medically and was thrust into a position where he never played. It's Izzy and that dreadful OPS, the toxin that's killing this team. Yes, trade him and all will be well.
2006-07-23 01:46:48
273.   JoeyP
If Frank McCourt upset right now?
I'd love to know.
2006-07-23 01:49:03
274.   dsfan
Doesn't Loria have a World Series ring? Didn't his $50 million team knock off the billion-dollar Yankees? How many multi-year contracts did Loria's 2003 Marlins have? Two? I don't get the comparison. The McCourts are their own species, incomparable.
2006-07-23 01:55:32
275.   JoeyP
I'm worried that the McCourts are more like the Cubs owners (tribune company), than anything else. They wont spend enough to ensure winning (Red Sox, Mets, Yankee levels), yet they also wont strip everything down and go with youth (A's, Marlins). They also know that no matter what they do, the fans will still attend the games.

I dont really have a problem with their budget. 90-100 mils a year should be enough to win consistently. However, the correct allocation of those funds is where the problem lies. The leadership of the McCourts is severely in question due to their pandering to the LA Times, despite apparently not realizing that LA will draw fans no matter whom takes the field. That miscalculation is the unfortunate thing.

2006-07-23 02:02:16
276.   thinkblue0
does anyone here think Baez and Lofton are even tradeable? Baez stinks...but with teams starved for relievers I'd LOVE to be able to even get an A baller for him.

Same thing goes for Lofton. If Ned doesn't start ditching soem of Lofton, Baez, Tomko etc then something is wrong.

2006-07-23 02:09:05
277.   trainwreck
I definitely think Baez has trade value. Many teams are short on relief, so a marginal reliever like Baez has a lot of appeal. Remember how many teams wanted him last year? While many of us have problems with him, he has not been that bad, he still has value.
2006-07-23 02:12:00
278.   trainwreck
Well not bad enough to have no value.
2006-07-23 02:12:46
279.   JoeyP
Baez is tricky bc the Dodgers can offer him arbitration this upcoming year. If he declines, we can get some draft picks so that would be a reason to hold onto him.

However, the downside is that with Gagne gone, perhaps Baez believes he'll get another shot at closing in 2007 and accepts arbitration. Dodgers would then be shafted, stuck paying 5mils for a middle reliever.

Lofton--he should be dealt or just released. He has no value at all to the team in 2007. Dodgers wont get any draft picks out of him, so just let him go.

I cant really see anyone else on our team having much value in a trade. If Saito is only on a 1yr deal, he might be attractive to other clubs. He can always resign with the Dodgers at the end of the year if he wants to come back for 2007.

I'll be very surprised if Ned sells anything though.

2006-07-23 02:15:40
280.   dsfan

Spend enough to ensure winning?
Tell that to the Mets, who flushed million in Flushing on detritus. Or many other clubs.
The Marlins won it all for $50 million. The A's are good every year for less than $70 million. The White Sox and Astros didn't spend all that much.
It's about making smart decisions. The Dodgers' batting average on decisionmaking needs to improve, at several levels.
Spending gobs of money on Drew, Perez, Lowe, Gagne didn't exactly ensure winning.
Maybe developing a good starting pitcher just once out of every five years would be more productive than ignoring several red flags and giving tens of millions to Odalis and Gagne. As for the Kent extension, just what winning did that $11 million commitment ensure?

2006-07-23 02:22:03
281.   JoeyP
Spend enough to ensure winning?

The Red Sox and Yankees can almost spend whatever it takes to make up for their mistakes.

2006-07-23 02:48:24
282.   trainwreck
If we have to spend as much as the Yankees or Red Sox in the coming years, we are idiots because it means we haven't played our prospects.
2006-07-23 06:53:50
283.   Bluebleeder87
I hope we bring up Kemp & Repko already
2006-07-23 07:17:31
284.   Benaiah
265 - My two favorite professional teams are the Dodgers and the Bills and I think that there was a good comparision between the two teams a few years ago when the Dodgers had Malone doling out tons for garbage that was an anchor for the team and the Bills had Rob Johnson and Doug Flutie at Quarterback and despite having one of the best defenses in the league were consistently mediocre. The problem with the Dodgers at root is that they haven't had a really good hitter since Shawn Green was a hitter (well I guess there was that flukey Beltre year too, where we made the playoffs). We don't have anyone like Pujols, Ortiz, Manny, Arod, Wright or even Vlad, Dunn, or Konerko. For the past two years (and the year before that) we have had a team of decent hitters, but I would love some excellence in blue. In some ways this is unavoidable since super hitters generally stay in one place, though we had shots at both Dunn and Vlad and screwed it up. Meanwhile the Bills still have the same problems they had back then, they haven't had a good Quarterback since Jim Kelly retired.
2006-07-23 08:23:11
285.   Bluebleeder87
another good start from Billingsley wouldn't be bad.
2006-07-23 08:30:28
286.   Steve

2006-07-23 09:12:37
287.   Bluebleeder87
Jorge Cantu in L.A. sounds pretty cool.
2006-07-23 09:16:14
288.   Blu2
Breaking my promise.... Everyone on earth knows Lofton is finished in the field, but he is still a very adequate batter and baserunner. Why doesn't The Village Idiot DFA Ledee, who has proven he can't hit, and give Lofton the job as chief left-handed pinch hitter? Also DFA Alomar, who can't do anything, and use those two spots to bring up any two AAA players he thinks can help. He doesn't have to make trades that may well be unproductive or even counter productive, just chop some deadwood off the bench and bring up some fresh fuel.
2006-07-23 09:23:56
289.   regfairfield
Ledee hit .278/.335/.443 last year. This year, he has 38 at bats.
2006-07-23 09:25:07
290.   D4P
Speaking of Lofton, check out his stats in comparison to those of Cruz. In particular, the big difference in BA, but how close everything else is.



2006-07-23 09:58:43
291.   StolenMonkey86
287 - We have enough middle infielders. The following is a list of players for Tampa Bay that would be acceptable

Scott Kazmir

2006-07-23 10:00:55
292.   Bob Timmermann
Photos from last night's game for the stout hearted.
2006-07-23 10:01:16
293.   Bob Timmermann
Whoops at:

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