Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
A case for having the option ... my latest at SI.com.
Out here in Los Angeles, the Dodgers have infamously won only one playoff game since 1988. But they've been in contention for a playoff berth nearly every season, especially before the non-waiver trading deadline. Not surprisingly, the team has consistently been what you would call a "buyer" that entire time. And it has pretty much gotten them nowhere except a steady jog on the also-ran's treadmill.* * *This year's team was considered by many the favorite to win the National League West but has now lost 13 of its past 14 games, its worst two weeks since a franchise-record 16-game losing streak in 1944. That's right -- 62 years! And yet with their deficit a barely surmountable 7 1/2 games, the question remains, are fans willing to let the front office start waiting 'til next year, now?
News flash to the executives: On message boards Wednesday throughout Los Angeles, a popular answer was yes.
Buy or sell. That's the traditional trading deadline dilemma. It's an intellectual discussion that disguises a battle of machismo. If you're a seller, you're a loser. You're walking away from the fight.
But even if you're walking away from a fight that you can win, maybe you can still walk tall. ...
Also today, Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus looks at how acquiring Alfonso Soriano or Carlos Lee would affect the Dodgers' playoff chances (among other teams).
"We can quantify the impact of picking up a player like Soriano by comparing his projected MLVr to that of the players whom he'd be replacing," Silver writes.
For example, here's the effect of Carlos Lee replacing Kenny Lofton, according to Silver:
Carlos Lee (+.159 runs/game) + Kenny Lofton (-.047 runs/game) = +.206 runs/game, x 58 games remaining = 11.9 runs added, = 1.19 wins added
(I don't do the math; I just report it.)
Silver then goes on to examine the impact of a player producing one additional win for the remainder of the season on a team's playoff probability. The Dodgers had a 9.6 percent chance of making the playoffs at the time Silver wrote the article, according to BP - a player like Lee would up that probability to approximately 15 percent.
"Even for a team like the White Sox that could desperately use another star player," Silver concludes, "the market price for one of these outfielders should be a second- or third-tier prospect, and not much more."
* * *
Finally, you might enjoy participating in this rate-your-ballpark survey.
Just curious, but it seems that a lot of your SI columns that I've read (if not all) take things from a Dodgers point-of-view. Is this a natural function of your bias, or does SI want it that way, as a de facto Dodgers column?
Pay no attention to this Nate Silver character. Kenny Lofton's veteran leadership, basestealing, and slick centerfield play will put you over the top.
And that argument with Brad Penny was all Penny's fault. Just ask Bill Plaschke.
I looked at the ballpark survey and I discoverd that I would be giving Dodger Stadium some pretty low scores due to the traffic, food choice questions and surrounding entertainment and food choices. That would not give an accurate reflection of what I think but I do see how those surveys often can make something look worse than it really is to the respondent of the survey.
Is Andre Ethier the best minor league player the Dodgers have acquired in a deal since Pedro Guerrero?
2 I don't think the two goals are mutually exclusive, is maybe what Jon's saying. DePo we could've trusted to understand. Ned I got no confidence whatsoever. (Which implys that, for McCourt, subtlety is something you were supposed to learn in high-school but he missed that day while working as his daddy's foreman.)
Instead it fixates on all non-baseball related stadium aspects. Some of these are important and relevant, but many are not things that I care about.
Until tomorrow that is.
I am guessing that a lot of people will be anxiously checking back forth Monday morning.
With no game that day, should make for an angst filled Monday.
* It takes over an hour just to get out of the parking lot after a game
* It takes over 30 minutes to park before the game
* It takes 30 minutes to get from the lot to my seat
* The lots seem to be numbered in no helpful order
My relevant Futurama quote of the day (I'll try to keep this from a daily habit): Fry: "Is there any way we can do this with you going and me staying?"
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5820522
(Or, he might not.)
Anyone want him as a reclamation project?
Leaving is always an issue since 95% of the time I stay for the whole game.
The other parks, Anaheim is just one huge lot and I have only gone to one game in the past 10-12 years, PetCo, again not many games, and I had to walk around some railroad tracks, not well setup, should try to figure out their public transportation system. San Francisco, took public transportaion, Arizona, lots across the street and Colorado, has the best set up, good public transportation and good restaurants around their ballpark.
http://tinyurl.com/qzu38
Guzman has been playing a lot of 1B and seems to be playing better since the break, stealing some bases too.
ANYONE is an improvement over Izzy.
Trying to deal Nomar is imperative right now. Imagine how good of a player he could bring back. That's not going to happen, so if Lofton, Baez, Saito, Izturis, Cruz, Ledee etc are all here in five days I'm going to vomit. We have absolutely zero chance of winning this division and our GM's obsession with signing and/or trading for garbage veterans with high price tags has gotten us nowhere. Anyone who isn't going to get arbitration needs to be dealt.
As far as next year, the Kent extension looks worse and worse. Without that, and by ditching a couple guys like Izturis and Hendrickson we could conceivably have enough cash to sign Zito, Schmidt, Soriano. Of course, that's letting Nomar walk as well and using Loney. Anyways, I'm looking forward to an offseason filled with Todd Walker-like acqusitions.
Dodgers running into a hot Nationals squad -- they've won six straight.
I was also very impressed by Coors Field. Great neighborhood with lots of restaurants and bars. Excellent public transportation, especially for a smaller city (don't know about parking as I took public transit). Petco and SBC are also nice. I hate admitting SBC is nice, because San Franciscans are so snobby about everything in their town.
I always thought Dodger Stadium could use a Hall of Fame Museum either out in the parking lot or in the stadium. Something like a Heritage Hall.
I thought that survey should have had a question about how comfortable you felt rooting for the visiting team in the ballpark, because that's actually useful information.
Something like, is it ever a good idea to cheer for the away team:
() not if you value your life
() as long as it's not the __GIANTS__
() sure, but avoid __________ section
() sure, they're good sports
() everyone there is a fan of the away team
Couldn't agree more. The team has such a rich history, a museum (no doubt complete with a gift shop) would be a nice addition in the parking lot.
Not to mention that if you're not familiar with the stadium, it would be easier to find your way around the parking lot.
At the moment, the Dodgers face a dilemma. Do they: (1) focus on the future by waving the white flag on 2006 and trading the veterans for youngsters, thereby decreasing the chances of winning this year, and possibly decreasing the number of people who show up to watch the games, but increasing the chances of winning in the future, or do they (2) hold onto those veterans and/or trade youngsters for other veterans, in an effort to maximize the chances of winning this year, and possibly maintaining the number of people who show up to watch the games, but decreasing the chances of winning in the future?
In my opinion, if this administration were truly committed to winning, they would give up on 2006 and try to trade the vets for some youngsters who will help in the future. If they fail to at least make such an effort, I will conclude that they are more concerned with profits than with winning.
First, Nomar got hurt at exactly the wrong time, who is going to trade for a player with his history and also in the midst of his first slump. It sounds like he won't play at all during the weekend which further limits his trade value.
Lofton, who has more value than Cruz or Ledee, would not get you much but I could see him being moved because they could very well bring Kemp back up to play CF.
Ledee did not fare well in his last trade deadline deal and again since he is coming back from injury, only a team that does not need an everyday player would make a deal and what kind of deal would that be.
Cruz had no value and playing him in games where he bats lefthanded does not help.
Not sure why Saito gets mentioned but he probably could get you something but the downside is that he is cheap and you have control of his contract for a while.
Izzy remains as the one real player that could be valuable to a team like Boston or Toronto, so I will be interested to see what happens with that.
If the Dodgers dealt Nomar, Izzy or Saito, they would be given the label of "Seller" but anyone else could be seen as addition (prospects) by substraction.
However, the odds or dealing Nomar or Saito would be pretty long, Izzy on the otherhand, I will have to be seeing what's coming out of Boston and Toronto (interestingly Toronto is out in Oakland this weekend, so at least they will be in the same timezone).
I'm not sure beating NL West teams right now qualifies you as being a hot team.
Also, since my season tickets are in the Top Deck, I paid a total of $6 a game for two seats. Just out of principle I absolutely refuse to pay $10 a game for parking.
Anyone ever read the Ray Bradbury story "The Pedestrian?" Walking in LA always reminds me of that story.
Final thought on Dodger Stadium, I am no fan of the McCourts, but I think they have improved the stadium a bit with the new seats, the picnic area outside, and overall refurbishment (I like the idea of putting seats where we had all that extra foul territory). I even like that we have a real dirt warning track now instead of that rubber junk that just caused injuries and ground rule doubles. Not crazy about all the new advertising, but it isn't too bad. Still nice that we have a real stadium name and not a corporate name that changes every couple of years. It is still truly the people's stadium.
Kent's extension was by far the worst decision out of Colletti in his tenure here.
It means three things - one, we're stuck with Kent long past his expiration date; two, he's virtually untradeable now; and three, Ned wasn't going to trade him anyway.
Agree for the most part, although I do hope Kent can bounce back from these nagging injuries. However, with age being a factor, I think we could see a sharp downside from now on. I doubt we could get much for him at this point, but you never know. Some teams may really be better off with a power hitting second baseman vs. what they have now at that position. It is all for naught though as I doubt Ned would consider trading him.
I think that deal is more viable as just Kent for the prospects.
Not saying it's likely, but a guy can hope...
Has anyone else forfeited a (substantial) contract by retiring?
If you believe he's just having a down year (and Carlos Beltran had a much worse season last year than Drew is having this season), then you keep him. Some players just have bad years. Paul Konerko has had a bad season in his prime also. Mark Teixiera is having an awful season compared to his career averages.
11mils for Drew's career averages of .280/.390/.500 is a good price. Declaring a guy done when he's only 30yrs old, is very risky.
http://tinyurl.com/zo7vt
Even in this washout of a season by Drew's standards, he's still waaay better than Shawn Green, who's been "reborn" this year.
Shoot, the top 5 runner-ups to Lance last year were all DQ'd right before this year's race. It seems to be an arms race where everyone is afraid to stay clean because they know everyone else is doping.
Some of us think the same way about baseball.
"Viva Pol Pot!"
I think Hendrickson for Navarro, Tomko as a starter, and signing Lofton to play CF, has brought Ned's grade down so low, that at least for this year it'd be near impossible for him to get a passing grade.
I mean, the guy considered Martin an untouchable, and traded Navarro for Mark Hendrickson...! Thats insanity on many levels.
Gonzo is close to 40.
And defensively, its not even close.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
As for the rest of the talk, most of you are right we couldn't get anything for Nomar now.
37-
The issue with trading these guys isn't what we'd be getting back since ANY return is good. We're not going to keep these players, so you might as well give them the Sandy Alomar treatment. Get rid of them for a low level prospect and move on. Saito gets mentioned because he actually has a ton of value. I also believe you're wrong on how long we control him...I think he's only signed to a one year deal. Relievers are going for a premium right now...we're not going anywhere, so why not cash in on it while we can?
All I know is that I've got the heebie jeebie's about this offseason. We're going to have a lot of money come off the books and if Colletti had half a brain (which he doesn't) he'd ditch all the worthless parts like Izturis to pile up as much money he can to make a strong run after a combo of Zito/Schmidt/Soriano.
so
Neddie would be crazy NOT to tade Drew for Gonzo straight up if Gonzo would waive the NTC. Drew would be gone, Gonzo would be gone at season send and we'd have an extra 33 mils over 3 seasons to get a run producer, not a player who's greatest arsenal is the walk.
Tomko should never have been signed in the first place. ESEPCIALLY not for two years.
who cares who would have started? Tomko is terrible...just about anyone could do equally as bad. Heck, we could have had Jackson post those numbers for a fraction of the cost...and we wouldn't have gotten Baez in the process.
Face it, the guy you call "Midas" is a terrible GM and outside of the Eithier move, has made awful move after awful move.
Also, does it concern anyone that Loney's Isolated paitence is only like .45 or so? Or is it that he's just getting too many good pitches to hit, so he's not waiting around?
But, if he starts selling guys like Lofton and Izzy to play guys like LaRoche and Kemp, and then starts making better moves, will you please give him another chance?
I mean, Paul didn't get a fair chance yes, but to judge Colleti this quickly is even worse.
Drew: .281 / 11
Gonzo: .279 / 3
Green: .268 / 2
Clearly Drew is the best of the bunch. And remember, this is a BAD YEAR for Drew.
Laroche in september and hopefully Izzy is gone.
As far as Loney goes, I just think he's a big time contact hitter kind of like Nomar. When he was with the team he didn't K much, but he also didn't hit for a good average. The good thing is he was putting the bat on the ball the vast majority of the time. I think he's just one of those hitters who doesn't walk much, but doesn't K much either.
I mean, Paul didn't get a fair chance yes, but to judge Colleti this quickly is even worse.*
The problem is that Flanders' moves have been about fifty steps beyond illogical. I'm not judging Colletti quickly...I've sat through his terrible signings, his terrible trades and STILL waited to see how they've panned out...and look, our team is awful. I've held out judgment until now but there's simply no denying it. Signing Mueller for two years when you have Laroche for '07? How does that make ANY sense? Especially when you could have just put Aybar at third from the get go....I honestly wonder sometimes what this guy is thinking.
The key to your first paragraph is "starts making better moves". That's the thing, he won't make better moves. He's already proven over and over that he's completely incompetent. If he manages to somehow get out from under Kent's extension and deals dead weight like Izturis while bringing in Zito or Schmidt then I may start to look at him another way....
If the Dodgers just want to prove Izturis is healthy, they could have just kept him at Vegas and had him play SS for that team.
I dont understand what they are doing with Izturis. He has no future with the team at 3rd base, so why not play LaRoche,Guzman, or Aybar at 3rd. Like Bobby pointed out, Izzy's one of the worst 3rd basemen in baseball. No other team is going to want him as a 3rd basemen. At the same time, the Dodgers are killing his trade value by showing off his anemic bat and NOT letting him play SS.
Common sense would say Izturis should be at Vegas, playing SS, and putting up good offensive numbers.
Playing 3rd, putting up bad offensive numbers, in LA does him nor the team any good.
Already gotten rid of Perez and Alomar, so you know I'm pretty sure that guys like Cruz, Ledee, Lofton, and Baez are next.
And again, less than 1 year is not enough of a sample size to judge a guy.
Common sense says Ledee and Lofton and Baez are next...but Ned doesn't work on common sense. Look at just about every move he's made...they are all devoid of any common sense.
Common Sense would say Carrara.
But who knows?
I'm still not with you on trashing Colletti, though that could change if he reverses field and starts to sell our top prospects for a rental that won't make a difference this year.
That really is another huge problem. I got railed here earlier in the year for saying we needed a power bat. I don't want a whole lineup of Adam Dunn's or anything, but you HAVE to have a HR threat in there somewhere.
This is why this Kent extension is driving me up the wall. His money could have gone to someone like Soriano while still keeping Nomar if we wanted to and going after Zito/Schmidt.
That's not really the point. The point is he signed these players when he could have just used the money on one GOOD player. Why sign Mueller to two years? How does that make ANY sense when everyone is expecting Laroche in '07...not to mention you have Aybar who you could just plug in at third and would probably put up similar or better offensive numbers. That money = wasted. Why sign Tomko? Why trade for Hendrickson and Hall? Why sign Lofton? All this money is going to waste that could be spent on good players. Instead, Ned likes to spread his money around to players who aren't good anymore when we have young players who could probably do the same job for a fraction of the cost.
I rarely post here, but I'm a Shortstop regular as well. Great bar. There's actually a few pretty fun bars on sunset near the stadium.
I am not happy with what happened either, but these moves could have gone either way. Injuries happen. We didn't have a closer, even though we thought Gagne was coming back, and Ned got the only 40sv man out there. We had to move Milton, and Ned got a real gem for a marked man. The Kent extension is insane, but there probably was some behind-the-scenes brinksmanship going on that forced that. Lofton was coming off a great year, Tomko was an afterthought, and Sele turned out amazing. It's always a mixed bag. It was a box of band-aids and we all knew it. Now, can we pull them off quick and start the healing? That's what I want to know.
Lots of celebration. Lots of bubbly. And Neddie and Frankie are going to be in the middle of it....
Good times are on the way. Neddie's not sacrificing the future. Not one iota.
Choi, Navarro, Schmoll, Jackson, Tiffany....meh, so what.
And to the poster who thinks Jackson is as good as Tomko. I don't think so. If Jackson EVER has a 7 week stretch where he posts a 2.50 ERA and wins 6 games I'll go streaking at an old folks home.
Broxton should move into starting work next year, even if it means starting him out in Double-A.
I respect what Broxton can do as a reliever, an experience that's allowed him to get his feet wet in the majors. Yet I am convinced that Broxton and the Dodgers would be better off if he gets the chance to become more of a pitcher.
He had a good changeup early in his career and seemingly would regain it as a starter. The pace of starting work, I believe, would allow him to increase his touch and feel, his ability to blend, his stamina, and even sharpen his command.
A fringe benefit is that he's probably more apt to keep his weight under control as a starter.
YES. Giving him two years makes ZERO sense when Laroche is probably ready for '07. Not to mention, Aybar could have just played there and probably put up the same offense.
If Baez was a shadow of his 40 save self from last year, would he have been a bad move?
YES. A lot of us here realize that saves is a very unimportant stat. Baez doesn't have good peripherals. The fact that our GM refused to look at said peripherals and still traded prospects for a bad reliever isn't a good sign.
If Nomar got hurt in the first month with a groin pull, would he have been a giant mistake?
No. He was only signed for one year and there's nothing wrong taking a chance like that for ONE YEAR on someone with his talent. If it didn't work out, no harm no foul...he's gone at the end of the year.
We had to move Milton, and Ned got a real gem for a marked man.
no one's denying that. Great trade.
The Kent extension is insane, but there probably was some behind-the-scenes brinksmanship going on that forced that.
I really don't get this. Why are you making excuses and completely taking away all responsibility from Colletti. The guy gave a REALLY bad extension and it goes along with his history of loving the aging veteran. Awful, awful move.
Like, say, Kent holding a gun to Ned's head...?
Not to be nit-picky here, but why in the world would you cite Tomko's brief but terrific little stretch there, when all that is needed is to just say "Scoreboard"? Tomko's numbers overall are more impressive than Edwin's. Why pick out little stretches like that to make your point, especially given the audience here? You have to know someone is going to call you out on that.
Edwin is just terrible. Tomko is slightly less than terrible. You do the math.
Or a razor to his upper lip...?
Edwin is just terrible. Tomko is slightly less than terrible. You do the math.
Exactly. And would you rather pay Edwin 300K to be terrible or Bombko millions to be "slightly less terrible". Give me Jackson and I'll spend that cash elsewhere.
Premature to fillet or fete Ned. Way too early. Lots there for a spirited debate, but much of the vitriol directed at him here seems over the top. So far, I'd give him a C to a C-plus. Context, context, context. What were the franchise's resources when he got the job? What were the market forces when he got the job at a time when the offseason was well underway?
The more significant questions: Can any GM prosper under the McCourts? How able are the holdovers such as Ng and Roy Smith?
I've yet to form a strong opinion on Colletti, but for now, I'm strongly skeptical of the stewardship skills above him and the know how and wherewithal of Ng/Smith below him.
White is an asset, provided he doesn't allow his success to bloat his ego and curb his work ethic. It requires extraordinary energy to do his job. Many very good scouting directors get burned out within 5-6 years and their decline doesn't become wholly evident until a few years later.
"This will hurt me more than it hurts you..."
I said the Kent extension was insane. What more do you want?
Baez. What were Sele's "peripherals" before the season. C'mon. It was a position of dire need, and guess what...it still is. He tried, it didn't work. Retread.
Nomar. Well, I guess you approve of Ned's work there. Since either outcome suits you. See, you're not a hater afterall.
Maybe Kent and Colletti are really good friends. Thats the only rational that i can think of for extending Kent before he even played a game in 2006.
That's an F.
Middle relief is never a dire need. At least, not in proportion to the starting lineup and starting rotation. Unless you're Wayne Krivsky, middle relievers are a dime a dozen. They should be valued as such. If you value them so much that you'd pay 5mils for Baez, and trade prospects for him, something is wrong from a cost/benefit perspective.
Would it be points? Head-to-head? Maybe we could use Xei Franks computer simulator? Can anyone beat the real Dodger team with their team?
Zero, my friend, I'm afraid reality is a litte different than fantasy. Maybe we ought to just stick to a comedy fantasy league.
And Nate, did you know our favorite Yankees C has a World Series ring already? 3 guesses what team he was with!
And is 99 what happened to Robb Nen that one year?
There are a select few that arent, but Baez wouldnt fall into that class.
BTW, looking at the DT archives, there was not a lot of criticism when they signed Bill Mueller.
I'm game.
I said we need a bat when we were scoring a ton of runs...everyone basically said I was an idiot because of the amount of runs we were scoring. I posted "you guys wouldn't even want a LF upgrade?"..keep in mind, this is before Eithier, and about three or four posters again said no and that I had no idea what I was talking about.
I was a history major in college, I have a good memory ;)
First of all, the payroll issue. About $38 million of that payroll is sitting on the DL right now or being mailed to Japan or Kansas City. Just to be fair. Of that total, less than half is going to players Colletti signed. Also, Neddy had nothing to do with deciding to spend $20 million on Drew and Lowe -- which might be the going market rate for players like that, but I'm just saying, Ned Colletti wasn't seated at a desk and given a $100 million budget and told, "go out and find the best players you can."
DePodesta bears at least half the blame for what's wrong with this roster, and that's being charitable. But most of Colletti's critics in this comment area worship DePo, or at least conveniently ignore the degree to which his decisions put us here.
Colletti, like DePo, had to deal with this reality. There were holes in the roster that the minor league prospects weren't ready to fill. It would have been malpractice to put them in these roles in 2005 or 2006. So then you have to go out and compete for experienced players with other GMs, and negotiate with agents who want the most for their clients. Most contracts that go to quality veterans nowadays are at least one year longer than you can reasonably expect that player to perform for. Don't like it? Great, but you might find yourself without a third baseman come opening day.
There's a lot of what's being called "logic" on this site that conveniently ignores the "logic" of the marketplace, which is how prices are set. There is no logical reason why Kenny Lofton gets paid 10x more than Andre Ethier to do a worse job, and why Eric Gagne gets paid 3x Kenny Lofton to contribute nothing at all. No logic, except that's the way the market for a scarce resource, quality ballplayers, works. (The market plus the rules applying to players before free agency.)
In another industry, Gagne would be off the payroll collecting disability, Lofton would be on 30-day probation -- improve or else -- and Ethier would be in your office saying "I hate to tell you this, but I got a call from George Steinbrenner. They have an opening in left field and he wants to pay me $2 million."
When GMs have the power to match dollars perfectly with performance, you will have the ability to impose sabermetric logic expectations on someone like Colletti. 'Til then, you've got to figure even GMs you worship will sign players like Mueller to two year deals despite the fact that you just know, for a fact, that Andy LaRoche will be ready to play third base next season. (He'll be at least as good as Dallas McPherson, I hear.)
Because old players sometimes just drop off a cliff. There's a reason why DePo didnt extend Steve Finley, even though he was coming off a 30HR season and 2 months of being a Dodger hero.
Its very risky to keep dumping money into 39, 40 yr old position players when steroids are no longer legal.
And for a deal to be considered 'great', that would mean getting him at a price lower than what another team might pay.
Is their another team that would give Kent 11.5 mils at 40yrs old to play 2nd base?
How could it be considered a 'great' deal even if you disregard Kent's age? Was Jeff Kent going to get offered more
You really should leave out the patronizing if you want your arguments to maintain credibility.
There's been plenty of specific issues raised about Ned Colletti, and the players he's brought in, and the prospects he's lost. Its not like people are making stuff up to make him look bad. Ned's done the deals. He'll take the rightful criticism.
I liked Paul when he was here, again the reason why I thought his rise and fall as GM was so disheartening to many of us was that I believed he had a philosophy that could be explained with analysis as opposed to some arcane philosophy used by "baseball people."
But I did not agree with every move he made and the fact that no support from the regular media (Baseball Prospectus does not count) made his portrayals in the press very discouraging.
I will occasionally keep saying this here just to try rise above the side taking that often happens here regarding the general manager.
Before we say the sky is falling lets see what happens come 1:00 p.m. Monday afternoon.
If the Dodgers make moves than we can critique them and move on. If they don't we can talk about that too. But I hate to see DT become politicized where we have to draw sides and argue from that point of view.
That kind of talk does not the help us politically and certainly makes DT sometimes a tiresome place to visit.
JMO
I've been wondering that for the last 4-5 years.
The reason DePo didn't extend Finley was because there was no indication Finley would keep up that level. He has no discipline, is not a great hitter, and his 30+hr's to depo were probably a fluke(which they were), while DePo realized his gold gloves were a joke and he was at best average in CF. Old players don't fall off cliffs when they are patient hitters who don't derive too much value from speed. We're giving him 11.5 million next year, which is probably overpaying by about 2 mil. It's a one year contract with a team option based on health(550 plate appearances makes the second year automatic). So basically, we said we were willing to overpay by 2-3 million to avoid the risk of losing an .850-.900 OPS second baseman. I think it's entirely justifiable. I'm actualy doing a senior thesis at school on contract extensions right now, because what it works out to is highly probabilistically based game theory. The idea is we could have gotten kent for amount A if we let him test the water, or we could've risked an outperform and market conditions that led to a contract for Amount B. So we settled for Amount C, somewhere in the middle, paying a premium for risk. I doubt Coletti thought of this but it's just an idea...
Actually no, because DePo never signed a Tomko or a Mueller (mediocre veteran to a multi year deal). He never traded for a Baez.
I guess Jose Valentin is similar to Kenny Lofton, but Valentin was like a last resort. A pretty good one, considering he hit 30HRs the season before. Ned had options in CF, but he chose Lofton and sent Bradley packing...and the kicker...he gave Lofton more money than Bradley. He gave a 39yr old washed up CF'er, more than Milton Bradley would have made. Thats lunacy. I dont care if Bradley is hurt, at least with Bradley there's a chance if he's out on the field, he makes a big difference. With Lofton, he makes no difference.
I can't feel my legs.
The prospects he's lost? What prospects are you referring to? Hendrickson and Baez are not great pitchers by any stretch, but they are the best you're going to get if, as Colletti's clearly done so far, your goal is to keep the Dodgers' prospects. Jackson and Tiffany were no longer real prospects, so they were expendable. Navarro was a lesser alternative to Martin, so he was expendable. Are you saying the Dodgers would be a better team today if we still had them, and didn't have Hendrickson and Baez? Give me a break.
If Colletti had traded LaRoche, Guzman, Kemp, Broxton or Billingsley to get Hendrickson, I'd want to boil him in oil. But it appears to me that he's put those and several others in a near-untouchable category, which is what you want. Me too. But there are consequences of such a policy, and you're seeing it now.
I'm sorry if it sounded patronizing to put a portion of the blame for the Dodgers' bloated payroll on DePo. It happens to be a fact. I will work on trying to restate this fact in a more sensitive way from now on.
No, seriously, well said. A lot of people make the assumption (and I hope it's true) that LaRoche is automatically set to open next season as our starting 3bman. Mueller seemed like good solid insurance to keep the "chair warm". Hindsight General Managing is much more foolproof than the real thing.
It would not surprise me to see the Devil Rays try to move Edwin Jackson before having to decide if they want him on their 25 man roster next year. I don't think they will put Chuck Tiffany on their 40 man (he has to be put on to protect him from the Rule 5), thinking that no one will take him due to the injury. Their prospect status is certainly questionable.
The two pitchers that went in the KC deal are again guys who would probably not make the 40 man roster next year.
Hate to agree with the majority here but it does appear our season is over and that we need to concentrate on the future. Given that the big three (Kent, Nomar, JD) all are useless right now this appears to be the proper strategy. Is Ned the guy who can make that happen? His 1st prospect trade was an A+, and his 2nd was amazing that he even got a arm for Alomar. I have more confident in his(staff) abilities to do prospect trades then his ability to trade for veterans. Knowing that Kent and Drew's contracts are unmoveable, Ned will have to be creative to find some players who will have value to us in the future. Even in a selling mode we don't really have anyone that anyone covets either cause the contract is egregious(Kent, JD, Furcal) or the vet is just not a difference maker(Cruz, Ledee, Saenz, Lofton, Baez). Nomar, Penny, Lowe, are probably the only players who can be dealt for some value but we need Penny and Lowe next year and Nomar doesn't have much value in the trade market as a 1st baseman. A few teams in the hunt need a 3b(Twins, Padres, Tigers, A's(Chavez is a physical mess), but we don't have one that anyone would be interested in.
I still think Izzy gets traded or maybe I'm just hoping but I don't expect much in return. I'd be happy just to get a Wiggington at this point for him.
The Lineup on Sept 1st should be:
Furcal/SS
Martin/C
Nomar/1st
Kent/2b
Ethier/LF
Kemp/CF
LaRoche/3b
Loney/RF
We need to see Loney and LaRoche everyday in Sept. Loney to see if he can play RF on an everyday basis and LaRoche to get some Major League time in anticpation of being the full time 3b in 07. I also would like to see Guzman get plenty of at bats at either 1st or RF but I suspect he'll be getting those at bats for another team. Before anyone bites my head off over playing Loney in RF, we already know he's a gold glove caliber at 1st, we need to know if he can play the outfield. He has a gun for an arm but can he run the right routes and does he have enough speed to cut off the foul line and the gaps. That is what I want to see.
Yours is an excellent post, fair, thoughtful, intellectually honest.
Martin likely will be exhausted by September so maybe keeping him eighth is the better route. As it is, he's carrying an inordinate load.
Lord knows I'm not here to defend Lofton, but I was shocked upon viewing the following:
2006 VORP
Drew: 12.6
Lofton: 12.0
Course, VORP doesn't take into account defense, where Drew has a 20-point Rate2 advantage over Lofton.
Martin likely will be exhausted by September so maybe keeping him eighth is the better route. As it is, he's carrying an inordinate load.
You're basically taking Kent off the market, bc for whatever reason the Dodgers thought there was a risk that he could have such a great 2006 season that he'd raise his market value even more than it was coming off of 2005. I would have said that was highly unlikely.
Moreover, I'd say that the chances of him underperforming in 2006, and lowering his value, were greater than him raising his value. Therefore, I dont see the positive NPV in paying a premium for Jeff Kent to sign.
Not hindsight when you have people publically wanting Willy Aybar at 3rd, or Nomar at 3rd with Choi/Saenz still at 1st before all of this took place. I wasnt the only one.
Does VORP place more emphasis on stolen bases than should be? I'd love to see the exact formula.
I'm not sure how much weight VORP places on stolen bases, but given that Lofton is so close to Drew, it must be quite a bit.
All we can say, at this point, is that our risks mostly not paid off. Enlightened payroll management will not help Matt Kemp hit breaking balls, nor will it teach Joel Guzman to take a pitch.
All Ned or Paul or Dan or...well, not him...or Fred could do was to put their team in a position to succeed in a given season. The fact that they didn't only means that they didn't.
I'm going to crawl back into the cubicle now.
discuss amongst yourselves.
No they arent. They might be the best you're going to get, if your GM has no creativity.
I'll admit. I was spoiled.
I expect Loduca, Mota, Encarnacion for Penny/Choi.
I expect Jason Fraser for Jayson Werth.
I expect Jason ROMANO for Antonio Perez.
And you're nuts if you think Mark Hendrickson is the best player that could be had for Dionner Navarro. Nuts! You realize, that Martin and Navarro are very very similar.
If Russell Martin was traded for Mark Hendrickson, would you be saying that "It was the best we could do. We had no place for Martin.."
This is Bill Plaschke insanity.
errr...
fantastically.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Nothing like making a typo in the middle of a good rant.
This season, combined with 100 degrees for three weeks, has melted my brain, and probably a lot of others'.
Buyers or sellers doesn't seem like the real question for the Dodgers. I don't think they're going to be either one, except maybe some marginal players will be moved around.
There might be a market for Izturis and Baez. If so, Colletti should try to get a high price for them, but shouldn't move them just to move them.
I think the Dodgers still have a small chance to reach the postseason, but not so much that I'd mortgage any good prospect now to up our odds, unless we'd get back a player we foresee as helping us next season and beyond like Cabrera (which will not happen).
Not prospects for middle relievers.
Or 22yr old catchers for #8 starters.
Move Drew to CF, and the team improves.
1) DePodesta did NO wrong.
2) Neddie did NO right.
I guess this franchise really is hopeless. GO TIGERS!!
My impression was Navarro would have been perfectly acceptable, but Martin was a better hitter and a better defensive catcher. Maybe not by a lot, but by enough.
But the point is, I don't care how much imagination Colletti had, he wasn't going to get more than a back-end starting pitcher for Navarro. Partly that's because of how poorly he played in AAA after he recovered. But I don't think the Dodgers had a way to increase his perceived value without costing Martin playing time. Keeping him in AAA wouldn't have done it, because everybody would be asking, "if he's such hot stuff, why did you demote him?"
It's interesting. I think they're handling Izturis just the opposite way -- showcasing him in hopes of getting his market value up. Is it working? My sense is not really.
He signed Gagne for 20M and he was healthy for about a month, how about the resigning of Odalis, he signed Drew with a player not team option after 2 years, I liked the Kent signing, Lowe maybe got one more year than I would have done, I liked the Penny extension. He basically traded Green for Navarro and we paid cash too, trade Ishii for Phillips and we paid cash there too.
Was an unlucky in some of these deals sure but to point out 3 trades you liked and ignore some of his free agent signings and other trades is just no objective, I know you are being subjective but to do it blinders just doesn't get us anywhere.
Where can I get that gameday?
The one thing that bothers me most though about Ned is the buy high/sell low pattern involving messrs. Baez, Hendrickson, Navarro, Perez, and Bradley. Obviously, one of those deals worked out with Ethier, but the "we've got to get rid of this guy" school or trading is not something you want to make a habit of. Nor is the "lets bring in the guy having the first and only good season of a long career" type deal.
In what's left of this week, Coletti has an opportunity to make his first "sell high" deal(s). That will tell me a lot.
isn't Ketchner still with us?
Murphy, Abercrombie, Hill for Steve Finley
EJ,Tiffany for Baez/Carter
Navarro for Mark Hendrickson/Toby Hall.
All four of these trades are uneven.
Can you pick out the two that were in the Dodgers favor?
Just for the record, Mr. DePodesta, I was against McCourt firing you.
Say hi to Sandy.
The problem with this kind of reasoning is that it causes one's brain to short-circuit when one considers similar questions such as "If Choi was better than Phillips/Grabowski/Nakamura/Myrow, then why was Choi shunted aside for Phillips/Grabowski/Nakamura/Myrow even after Phillips/Grabowski/Nakamura/Myrow showed how horrible they were?"
If you wanna talk about free agent signings, then thats a whole different thing.
I still like signing OP over spending money on Tomko.
Signing Drew to his deal was perfectly acceptable. That was his market value.
Lowe was fine.
The only mistakes DePo made in free agency was not going to arbitration with Gagne, and giving Izzy his deal. Those were mistakes. But, i said it at the time they were.
165 Oh, crap. JoeyP is DePo! Now I'm in big trouble.
Just for the record, Mr. DePodesta, I was against McCourt firing you.
Say hi to Sandy.
LOL LOL LOL
http://tinyurl.com/qv8ok
164 Yes. He's currently building up his pitch count in the GCL after TJ surgery. If all goes well, he should start in AA or AAA next year, albeit as a 25 year old lefty without exceptional stuff.
There's been like 20 things Ned has done. 5 make sense. 15 make you ask why?
Navarro's trade value is being radically exaggerated by the SABR types who also wildly overestimated -- as even they should recognize by now -- Hee Seop Choi's objective market value (i.e. Choi had ZERO trade value, as incontrovertably proven by the fact that when Boston DFA'd him no team even bothered to put in a waiver claim).
lol, hes not going to throw any harder.
no gameday, listen to the audio though on milb.com
It's not Ned's Fault the payroll is over 100 million again (up from 89) and we have a bunch of crappy devil rays, it's all Depos.
Depo's hands are tied because of the contracts given by Evans and Fox. Some hate Depo now, but we don't win that division without Bradley and Finley. Even the biggest Anti Depo guy would have a hard time arguing that.
And Evans cant spend money, he can't find a real impact bat when the team is the best pitching and defensive team in MLB history (or close) but that's Foxes fault cause the sherrif was in town....
Chris Tierney and Brian Sanches for Rondell
White.
Jose Santiago for Paul Byrd
Justin Lehr and Nelson Cruz for Keith Ginter
Carlos Pena, and Jeremy Bonderman for Ted Lilly.
Guess with moves Allard Baird made.
Please fill us in on the respective "make-ups" of Martin and Navarro.
But I also understand the baseball reasons why Ned made his deals and I think that there is not one way to build a club.
Perhaps it is not fair that rational thought is not always visible when examining why a person makes these deals but sometimes you have got to let that go.
We won the division because Beltre had an MVP year. Honestly, no other player/event was more important then that.
Because it was a fluke. I dont know how anyone cannot see that, pro depo or anti depo.
I dont feel like arguing over something that has been beaten like a bloody hooker on sunset for the past 2 years.
And yet, we can't look away!
Maybe the players we would have gotten back for beltre would not have made 2005 and 2006 stink.
Everyone makes mistakes.
The problem is, none of them held their jobs long enough to put their own stamp on the team. JoeyP's ratio of good/bad DePo moves might be too generous, but generally I liked him on personnel, enough to want to see what he would've done with three more years.
More than anything, I think the Dodgers need stability at the top for a few years. All this lurching from regime to regime, philosophy to philosophy -- no organization can succeed other than accidentally (2004) if it's run like that.
Colletti can (and probably does) blame DePo for some of his current challenges. Fair enough for now. But by 2007, we should be about done with that.
And reg should know. He's trying to get the Detroit GM job so he can trade Verlander for Jeff Weaver. ;-)
With Colletti, I don't know yet. He is saying all the right things so far though.
Pretty good. There is a Cleveland Demo Day at Roger Dunn in south OC on the 4th. So im goin to go to that before I buy my new irons. I just want to get my measurements right since Im dropping a decent amount (decent amount by my college student standards) on clubs.
With all respect, and total civility and politeness, and with some reluctance, I must say, you're making this site harder to enjoy by posting so often. There seems to be less give and take when this happens. It feels a lot less like a discussion and more like one constant rant, on the basic theme of "Depo genius, Ned dope."
Perhaps I am out of line here in saying it. I'm checking out. My head hurts.
I do agree it was mostly a fluke, but the fact is, we won.
And we all know that 2005 was so decimated by injury that is it really unfair to blame that on any GM. Plus I personally feel the manager quit on his team and that was as much of the problem as anything.
Hey I don't dislike Ned..I don't really care, I just want to win. I think he's made some good moves and some bad. I just find it funny that the one guy (fact is: he was in charge) that actually helped us win something for once gets killed by dodger fans like he is the antichrist.
He just argues because hes bored. Or at least thats what he told me the other day when I almost put a bullet in my own head to end the insanity.
Im not saying the moves Depo made didn't help in winning the division, because they did. I'm saying though, the moves that Depo made wouldn't have mattered whatsoever if Beltre didnt have the year he had.
We weren't a very good team. I mean, come on, look at what we had in our starting staff! But we did win and it was awesome. That game where we clinched was one of the best games in a long long long time.
Mile Square GC Fitting Day
10401 WARNER AVE
FOUNTAIN VALLEY, CA 92708
7/29/2006
If anyone wants to play Tuesday morning, let me know, I think it will be cooler. Anywhere in SoCal good, though I need to be back up in LA by 3.
I think Broxton is done as a starter, so it'd be ok by me to move him.
Yea I saw that. I was planning on going but I decided I want Cleveland irons so theres no point in going. Although I might want to check out those Vokey Spin Mill wedges. I heard those are sexxxyyy.
So maybe you can tone down all the Colletti/Midas talk now?
Also, is that really the details of Vince Young's deal? If so, Bush's demand of 6/$60 looks cheap by comparision.
Now, back to thunderdome.
funniest post yet.
Milton the intense baseball player I missed. Milton the injury prone pansy I dont miss.
By contrast, Navarro has shown a poor work ethic since he was in the minors. Scouts complained about it when he was with the Yankees, and the Yankees' personnel got after him about it, though to little effect. I heard from a Dodger fan who goes to Vero Beach for spring training every year that this spring the Dodgers' coaches were all griping about Navarro being out of shape and not working hard to do anything about it.
Physical conditioning is more important for a catcher than it is for players at some other positions. Remember Angel Pena? Pena was our #1 prospect in the late 90's. He was talked about by some like he would be the next Piazza. His Double A offensive line was quite excellent. Bad make-up was his undoing. He basically ate himself out of a major league career.
The Kruschev philosophy of leadership, to paraphrase:
'Welcome, Tavarish Brezhnev. I advise you to write two letters. The first blames should blame all your problems on me. The second should be your resignation. Enjoy!'
I am in the process of completely overhualing my golf bag. Everything besides my putter and maybe my 3wood is going away. So new Clev CG4 iron, new TM r7 460 driver, 52 and 56 degree spin mills and a halo 2i hybrid.
Depending on how much i like the halo, i might get the 1i 14 degree one and just replace my 3 wood with it.
I think can get everything if i shop smart on ebay brand new for around 700.
The "competitive" season is over. I wouldn't deal for soriano.
1. A long-term deal, or
2. A two-month rental, prior to his return to the Yankees.
I think Hu and Abreu have better shots at being major league regulars then Raglani.
237 And yet they keep winning despite not having the Jacksonville 5.
John Meloan in Vero Beach, 5 IP, 4 hits (2 solo HRs) 10Ks and zero walks. Game tied 2-2 bottom of the 5th.
Funny, I have a younger brother named Nick.
Me, I need a drink. Which makes me Boris Yeltsin.
I'm not preventing anyone from posting, so therefore I have no control over the give and take. Its very hard to argue against logic, no matter the Jim Tracy's of the world. Perhaps there is less give and take, because some previously held positions have been proven as illogical by the discourse that has been exchanged? It wouldnt make sense to continually argue against something that has been proven false. If you make a scientific proof about something that refutes a given position, most likely there will be less give- and take, as one side has been proven correct.
It feels a lot less like a discussion and more like one constant rant, on the basic theme of "Depo genius, Ned dope."
You've misunderstood my posts. I'm in favor of logic, reason, and analysis when it comes to baseball. I'm in favor of those. It has nothing to do with the principle players executing those decisions, it has everything to do with those decisions themselves.
Meloan is from your school territory, what do you think of this former college pitcher, who after today has a 6/1 KK/BB ratio for his total year and is averaging 15ks per 9 innings.
I saw Meloan almost throw a no hitter in 2004. He made it to the 8th and then gave up a hit and got takent out. He has decent stuff, fastball 89-92 with a very good knuckle curve. He was effectively wild in College. He walked alot of guys but didnt give up alot of hits and pitched well around the walks.
Hes a big boy. not fat, just alot of muscle on him. Broad shoulders. I always thought he would be awesome as a power late inning reliever. His fastball would probably go up a notch and his knuckle curve would be more devastating.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2531970
"Christopher Hobdy, a 19-year-old pitcher for the Gulf Coast Dodgers in the rookie Gulf Coast League, was arrested Wednesday night and charged with seven counts of burglary and six counts of petit theft. He was also charged with trespassing and barred from returning to Dodgertown, the Vero Beach Press Journal reported for Friday's editions."
I dont like judging people by their myspaces but Hobdy comes across as a huge thug on his.
254 The whole league seems different. Colorado has a park factor of 1.01, RFK has 1.10, Dodger Stadium is at 1.07, Arlington is at 1.00, and Fenway is at 0.92. 13 teams have had their park factor fluctuate at least +/- 0.1 from last year, which is fairly significant (although sample size is not).
Also, has anyone determined why Carlos Alvarez is playing 1st and batting 5th?
That was my inning 2 years ago when I saw him pitch and when the Dodgers drafted him. he was basically a two plus pitch pitcher in college.
I remember when Lasorda gave every thing away, and it didn't get us anything.
Not that Lasorda didn't make a bad trade....
Look, I don't disagree with the concept that statistics rule baseball. But they rule in the same sense a prime minister rules, not a dictator. They are the primary factor, but not the only factor.
I also think the weakness with cloaking one's viewpoints in the mantle of "science" is that the science of baseball (or of anything else) is far from reaching its final point, where everything can be explained by a set of iron laws or principles. There are simply too many variables, and the way one GM weighs the variables relative to one another will be different than the way another one does. It doesn't wash with me to call Colletti's moves "illogical" because the reality might be that his priorities simply are different.
Finally, as I said earlier, baseball exists in a marketplace, and in any marketplace, factors external to sheerly measureable value enter into the discussion. That's why companies advertise and do PR and marketing, rather than simply building a better mousetrap and pricing it one penny below the competition and then wait for the sales to roll in. In a marketplace, you can't let the best be the enemy of the good, or else you sometimes wind up with neither.
I want to see these guys grow together like Rusell, Garvey, Lopes and Cey. If thats a wierd kind of fan, so be it.
And then just as quickly became a salary albatross. Has anyone done so little to earn 20 million not named Driefort or Chan Ho or OP. Anyone see a trend?
I've learned a new phrase!
On Sori
I sure don't think he makes sense for the Dodgers as a rental, and the Nationals won't permit extension negotiations before a deal. And he's said many times he wants to test the full market in the offseason and with the gaudy numbers he's putting up and the crazy GMs out there, why wouldn't he.
Soriano seems really locked in right now though and I do think a team that feels real confident it's going to make the playoffs would do well to pay a fair price for him. He's playing a solid left too.
Bowden has said all along that, if the price isn't right, he's happy to keep Soriano for the picks. That's a lot easier for him to do now with the team winning a little, and more important having just completed a six-game homestand with 30K at the park everynight. At least he can feel like there are fans he's pleasing by keeping him.
I was saying on a Nationals site a couple of days ago that starting pitching prospects seem grossly overvalued right now. Not that they aren't super valuable, but with the Liriano and Kazmir cautionary tales out there, teams just are gun shy in the extreme. So, seems to me, a logical GM would either hang on to potential free agents and max out draft picks to have a shot at drafting pitching, or make teams overpay in position player prospects. If you just can't have Mike Pelfrey no matter what, insist on three other guys.
Sorry for the long answer, but the dynamic with Bowden is just very wierd now (no great shock there). There's so much coverage of the deal or no deal, it's hard to know how it affects him. He seems pretty immature to me, and I worry for the Nationals that other GMs believe they can take advantage of him (i.e., that, having built up the deal as the cornerstone of rebuilding, he will get desparate at the end). If you're interested (and strong of stomach), read these Bowden quotes collected at Capitol Punishment -- http://tinyurl.com/ldfl7.
wow, how many has he walked though?
ABs/HR since 2002:
17.85
17.95
21.71
17.69
12.78
He hasn't allowed any runs.
That's through six innings.
Pitching into the 7th!
I hear you, but wow was he awesome.
7 2 0 0 3 13 0 so far!
What about Drew?
1999-2006
28.31
22.61
13.89
23.56
19.13
16.71
16.80
35.22
Back to homework.
The 0= great & awesome.
With Colletti it is most certainly a dilemma.
Jon - my question for you is when you used the word "dilemma" did you use it with intent and it's true meaning - in which case I personally think it was very clever - or did you use it in its colloquial meaning just "tough choice." I hope the former. :)
However, with the apparent usage of HGH and the coorporate scandals like Enron, if Barry Bonds trainers, Arizona, or Scott Boras could ever be linked, I would distance myself as far as I could.
I'd like to trade Drew
For a prospect or two
But I don't know what Flanders will do
The next guy to be here
Could top Andre Ethi-er
But we might get stuck with Danys Baez.
He could go after Sori
Ano, but won't get Torri
Hunter, 'cause the Twins are real good now.
If he sells the farm
That would do lots of harm
'Cause that's the Dodgers' best shot at the future
Ledee, Cruz, and Lofton
We say it quite often
Trade the vets, hold on to the prospects!
Without going in to specifics, it would be wonderful if the D's could develop players and stay away from the crap shoot for a while.
http://tinyurl.com/k94rh
Elbert is an animal! I've heard people refer to him as a left handed Billingsley. If he continues to develop (mostly in the control department), he should be up here in the middle of next season. I am praying that he is one of the guys that Ned deems untouchable.
I've got one to the tune of system of a down:
Such an awful team
And it's ours.
The most awfulest team of my life
Such an awful team, should be banned
It's a team that I can't stand
The most awfulest team of my life
The most awfulest team of my life
Such an awful team, shouldn't exist
It's a team that we'll never miss
Such an awful team
and it's ours.
The most awfulest team of my life.
Danys, if you go
Kenny should go with you
If Izzy leaves too
LaRoche should come up too
Sell the vets and walk away...
The most awfulest team of my life
The most awfulest team of my life
the most awfulest team of my life-
Such an awful team
and its ours
It's a team we'll be glad we survived.
Oddly enough, Tampa Bay considered Lance Carter to be "expendable" as well...
I just don't think Trevor can get great hitters our anymore.
The one game he saved against us, he shut down Izturis, Cruz, and Martinez. I'm pretty sure anyone can do that.
Heh, I was thinking the exact same thing.
not very consistantly he can't. did you see the all star game?
That one is gonna hurt.
There's a place for sentiment, but not in multi million dollar industry of professional sports.
Dodgers close to within 7 games of 1st place.
Buy! Buy! Buy!
LOL, that's what Plaschke must be thinking.
yea, I remember that highlight, the batter hit a sharp liner, and it was a utility player, luckily for Trevor though, the 2B or SS caught it in the air.
I hope this deadline isn't a dud like last year's.
I kid the elderly Italians.
If by that you mean you hope the dodgers don't hold on to dead weight, couldn't agree more.
any chance he gets a start at AAA this year?
here comes Guzman
Probably bogus. But if somehow Cabrera is on the market, I sure hope we at least try to get in on it.
Id let him stay in AA the whole year to work on his control.
How many times did he K? That's my only question about Kemp, will he learn to stop K'ing?
Nate, do his K's concern you?
The game ended on a pickoff. Boo, Jeff Duncan.
I just hope he doesn't trade Broxton, Elbert, and Orenduff for a mediocre catcher.
oh wait, didn't he already...nevermind ;)
He didnt K that much in AA, he didnt k that much in single A.
hes 21, hes suppose to K alot in the majors. The strike outs dont concern me because at the levels he should have been at, he didnt strike out alot.
I just find it terrible that I got more emotional over that then the past 8 games.
http://tinyurl.com/rhdd7
However, his place in that system isn't fully established. Elbert has been used almost exclusively as a starter throughout his professional career, making 54 of his 57 career appearances as a starter. But, his role at the highest level could be out of the bullpen. Elbert has shown the composure and aggressiveness required to pitch in tight spots.
shut up stupid milb.com writer.
Why even bring that up is annoying and ridiculous.
I would start a riot if the dodgers made Elbert a reliever, why the would the dodgers even CONSIDER that? That would be freaking stupid. He has a chance to be one of the 4 or 5 best lefty's in the game, and you consider making him a RELIVER?!!!!
Concession sales
Ticket sales
General manager
Scoreboard operator
Promotions coordinator
Field manager"
He could be a sex symbol in LA!
Does this mean we can't get rid of Baez...?
Kemp went 2-5 with a triple, 2 RBI, and a K.
Guzman was 0-4 with a K before what should have been a 3 run homer, but never happened.
Loney struck out as a PH.
Matt Kemp's Vegas OPS is now tops, at .983, to James Loney at .960. Still only 1 homer for Kemp tho.
Which is fine because that would be a temporary move to ease him into the majors; something that I dont have a problem with happnening. But the author seem to imply that the bullpen would be Elberts permenant destination. A 20 yr old lefty with his stuff, era, k rate and hit rate, do not go to the bullpen.
Seems like Loney's OPS peaked at 1011, hopefully it can spik a bit up again.
This might be die-hard Yankee fan Olney trying to get the Cashman off his duff to make a play for Carlos Lee or somebody.
Sergio Garcia
Vegas (134 AB)
.313/.412/.485, 20 BB, 17 K, 4 SB, 0 CS, 5 HR
Jacksonville (122 AB)
.221/.285/.295, 12 BB, 17 K, 0 SB, 2 CS, 0 HR
This might be die-hard Yankee fan Olney trying to get the Cashman off his duff to make a play for Carlos Lee or somebody.
I think it's bogus. Although, it IS at least worth mentioning. If they dont ever plan on paying him, then they should probably look into dealing him.
If I were them I'd cash in on Willis while I could.
Last time I used the conclusion mat I had E Jackson and Miller becoming our Drysdale/Koufax combo. I hope you have better luck with your mat then I did.
Austin Kearns & Felipe Lopez come to mind. By Monday we may have changed our minds about Mr. Bowden and his abilities.
My mat is double bust proof!
From Bill Plaschke's pen to Ned Colletti's brain.
Is it just me, or would all of those moves actually probably have more of an effect of helping the Dodgers win now?
I will find you, Ned. I will find you and your stupid mustache, and I will probably do nothing.
But I will be thinking very mean things. Very mean. I may even use a swear word. Quietly. To nobody in particular.
However, it is alarming that he isnt considering selling off some of the spare parts. Thats sad, if that part is at least true.
Ned is repeating what he has said for about month now, earlier this week he said something about protecting the future that got Plashcke clones all up in arms.
If the prices go down, I think you look at it.
I am sure there are those that will happy if Lee and Soriano could move soon to other teams.
The second annual Baseball Express Cape Cod High School Classic will showcase 36 of the most talented high school seniors from across the nation. The Cape Cod Baseball League will serve as official host for the game, providing a historic setting for this event.
The article at milb.com says that 6 of the first 50 picks in this year's draft played in last year's game.
"The Milwaukee Brewers are trading slugger Carlos Lee to the Texas Rangers as part of a multi-player deal, ESPN.com learned Friday.
The Brewers are sending Lee, minor-league outfield prospect Nelson Cruz and a player to be named later to the Rangers for relief pitcher Francisco Cordero and outfielders Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix."
espn.com
I wouldn't worry about that, if you saw him hit in L.A. the guy has awesome power, believe me he's gonna be o.k. in the dinger department.
But I will be thinking very mean things. Very mean. I may even use a swear word. Quietly. To nobody in particular.*
hallerious (sp?)
Manassas, Va.: Over/under on the Soriano contract from this winter becoming an albatross around the neck of a franchise (like Abreu is now for Philly) 2.5 years. What say You?
Tom Boswell: Nobody is more fit than Soriano. So, if any 30-year-old is going to produce for five years, he's probably it.
BUT the kind of contract he'd get after a 45-40 year might end up being 1/6th of the Nats player budget in '10. I said to one Nats, do you guys really want to spend a seventh or more of your payroll on one guy who's a leadoff man and not a strong defensive player?"
The answer: "He is NOT a 'leadoff man.' And watch how good he ends up being in leftfield. The only ball he still has trouble on is the line drive right in front of him. He's still afraid to trust himself and break in because, if he misjudges it, it'll go over his head. He'll learn that."
If you think the fans have a high opinion of Soriano, it is NOTHING compared to his standing in the clubhouse. I've rarely heard such raves. Part of the reason is that he took so much crap (from a player's perspective) and maintained his dignity. FORCED to switch positions. Lost in arbitration. Etc.
1. Egad -- if that's all you get for Carlos Lee what are we really going to get for Alfonso Soriano?
2. Hmmm, maybe the Angels will go nuts now that Texas just got a whole lot better?
Blu2, maybe you should find another team to root for. May I suggest the Detroit Tigers or New York Mets. Ned Colletti's going to be here for a LONG time.
Suggesting our GM smokes crack is NOT funny.
You can't honestly think any other GM would have this team with a much better record at this point.
Maybe you wanted Edwin Jackson and DJ Houlton in the rotation all year. I dunno.
Or maybe a bullpen of Duaner, Schmoll, Osoria, Kuo, and Carrara all year. I dunno.
Baseball is too random for that, but yes, a better GM would have the Dodgers possitioned better over the long term than does Midusa.
Mench's career- .274/.335/.480, .266 EQA
Lee's career- 284/.338/.494, .274 EQA
Lee is a good player, but he's not that special. He's never had an OPS over .900, and having a career year in the final year of his contract.
Cruz was somewhat expendable since the Brewers already have decent outfield talent in Corey Hart and Gabe Gross, plus I can see them moving Bill Hall to center in the future.
I hate acquring relief help, but the Brewers needed it. Dan Kolb is their closer. A guy like Cordero is better than the average middle relief trash with a 3-1 K/BB and he strikes out over a batter an inning.
It's not a trade I'd make if I were in contention, but it's not a bad haul for a guy that wasn't going to help the team in the future.
Bad GM.
It'd be nice if both were good.
As for "I think I am safe in predicting that 90% of us here think he is the worse since Kevin Malone" - not sure about that. Also not sure how many of us feel a GM can be judged fairly after 6 months and a lot of clean up duty to do. As for whoever thinks he's left us worse off for the future, what are you talking about exactly? One of the best farm systems in baseball is still intact, as well as the addition of another minor leaguer who is now in the running for rookie of the year.
Basically, I may speak for most of the people here when I say that the jury's still out on Ned, that some of his moves have been questionable, some of them have been good, some of them we can't evaluate yet, and some of his non-moves have been good, too. Which isn't too, too bad given all that crack-smoking and moustache primping he does. ;-)
a chick G.M. would be cool, different but cool.
"OAKLAND, Calif. -- A beautiful gift fell from the sky this spring and landed at the feet of the Boston Red Sox. It was so radiant, they didn't know what to do with it at first. So precious, they have come to treat it with exceptional care. So powerful, the mind races at what the future could hold. For now, however, it is simply a gift that should be shared with and enjoyed by the world. All behold, Jonathan Papelbon."
http://tinyurl.com/qpcmo
FWIW, speaking for everyone is against Jon's code of conduct.
If a starter doesn't get the job done he is moved to the pen, and if a reliever doesn't get the job done and has options he is sent packing (whether that is grady's decision or ned'd or both, i don't know).
But i can't stand that grady continues to start izturis and lofton everyday, and that's why ned needs to "tracy proof" the offense next year, but then again i'm talking about ned, you know the guy that got lofton and mueller and gave a shortstop 13 million per year.
He had two cars, but he wrecked 'em!
Some want to say handing Odalis 3/24 made sense, it was market value at the time, yadda yadda yadda. And you know. That's a good argument and they're probably right. But it turned out to be a HUGE BUST for LA. It didn't matter.
Lets move on to Baez. Seems like everyone wants to bash that deal. If Baez pitches EXACTLY like he did the previuos 3 seasons that deal makes ALL THE SENSE in the world. Especially with the health issues of Gagne and Brazoban's ineffectiveness last season.
I will admit I was not a big Depo fan AT THE TIME, but in retrospect, many of his moves turned out ok. I was against the LoDuca trade AT THE TIME, but, now, two years later, the trade turned ok for us because we wound up with the best player out of the bunch, Penny, have essentially replaced LoDuca with Martin, and were right to get rid of Mota when we did. The Finley trade was good, as was the subsequent move in letting him go, and the Beltre non-signing was also the right move. A lot of things that DePo was vilified for at the time turned out in our favor in the long run. Obviously, some things were not so good--the Drew signing, HSC, replacing LoDuca with Brent Mayne, but in retrospect, his record looks pretty good.
However, no one seems willing to give Colleti the same chance. I am not one of the "90%" on this site who think he is a bad GM. Frankly, I don't know what kind of GM he is AT THIS TIME. I like some of his moves--the Ethier trade, signing Furcal, Saito, Sele, and an overlooked good one is hiring Grady Little, who has turned out to be a far better manager than expected. I think Colleti's trades have mostly been wastes of time, as he hasn't lost or acquired anyone of importance. However, this obsessive love of DePO and irrational hatred of Colleti, as fun as it is to read at times, is getting a little too much.
he's been the G.M. for less than a year, I don't get it. I'll hold judgement till the end of next year.
that's what I was thinking when I was typing that.
At the same time, I don't think those who liked DePodesta necessarily have an "obsessive love" and those who dislike Colletti necessarily have an "irrational hatred."
Hyperbole brings out more hyperbole - comment 437 I'm only mentioning because it's the latest of many, many examples.
Now, a few commenters truly have extreme feelings about the GMs, it's true. However, taking the people on the extreme and extrapolating them to everyone is a mistake.
Once again, I appeal to people here to tone down the hyperbole wherever they can.
If I do, will the relevant parties please go there and leave the rest of us alone?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html
Discourse is healthy but in the end, in my opinion, saying something like let's get rid of the owner or general manager, doesn't really add anything to the discussion.
Interestingly the Brewers decided that they wanted players that could play today, Jim Bowden has said that he wants prospects, will Soriano cross lines this weekend, well I'll be there tonight and Sunday so if he does, I'll see him play for the Dodgers.
But lets see how the next 3 days and 2 1/2 hours plays out, in the end we may be sitting with same roster come Tuesday night in Cincy.
My advice is to run off the diving board and do a cannonball and splash all of us with some fresh thinking. C'mon in, the water is fine.
I'm willing to give Colletti a chance, but I do think it is very much the wrong "approach" to trade prospects for "proven veterans" for the Dodgers right now, not to mention (almost) at any time. Bad moves in year #1 will hurt our team just as much as bad moves in year #3.
RELX, I think you're correct that we need to let DePo go and I think we're being manipulated by Plaschke and Simers, wrong and mean spirited as they are, into obsessing about him.
I put the "90%" in quotes because I knew it didn't reflect the majority of posters. However, I do think that some people go out of their way to bash Colleti unfairly, based on incomplete information and an assumption that the guy before him--Depo--was better. I think much of it comes from the belief that the philosophy of Depo--Moneyball, SABR, call it what you will--was the right way to build a club, and the belief that Colleti is the antithesis of that philosophy.
great great point Jon.
yeah that's true.
From Bowden's perspective, not only does he own one of maybe two impact sluggers left on the market, he now can point to Milwaukee's haul of three major-league players -- outfielders Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix and reliever Francisco Cordero -- and a minor league pitcher -- Julian Cordero -- as the going market to those who might balk at paying his price.
456 -- Colletti on crack (well, just about anybody on crack) is fun for the entire family. Colletti on whatever Kevin Malone was on is libelous.
How many people who use that expression realize that's an allusion to the Jonestown massacre, where hundreds of people were induced to drink grape Kool-Ade laced with poison?
Since it happened way back in 1978, I bet there are quite a few who think it's about Kool-Ade being a delicious refreshing drink.
Compared with that, the "crack pipe" analogy is way tame.
He raised the possibility that that medication may have skewed the test that appears to damn him.
I'm the worst speller in the world, but it felt good catching that.
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