Jon- today's Henson column answers one of your wishes but denies another. Wish granted- sabermetric counterpoint to the Dodger Colletti's stated plan... Wish denied- same old buyer/seller terminology.

Colletti's quote "We are not a seller. I'm talking to teams about acquiring proven big leaguers for prospects." sounds like appeasement to the Plaschke mob to me.

I don't know, I thought the Grateful Dead was one of the best live acts I ever saw. And I was a dyed-in-the-wool Doubting Thomas prior to being dragged to the show by a friend who insisted I ought to check it out.

I do like "The Warriors," too.

Really funny stuff.

1 - It sounds like appeasement too. At the same time, talking and doing are not nearly the same thing.

There's going to be a new face in Dodger blue come Tuesday in Cincinnati that no one as mentioned. That's how this stuff generally works. You guess and speculate till you pass out then the news breaks Monday afternoon we just traded Derek Lowe and Takashi Saito to Boston for John Lester, Wily Mo Pena and a player to be named later.

if I give one person added enjoyment, then I've done my job

And gosh darn it, I've gotten my money's worth! Wait, that didn't come out right.

1 - call it appeasement, call it gas. I doubt very much Colletti is going to move Matt Kemp anywhere. It's PR, and from that standpoint, he's doing a better job than DePodesta ever did, and that comes from a DePo supporter.

T.J. was kind of nasty about Andre Ethier today. It sounds like whenever Ethier sees T.J. coming, it's "get thee behind me Satan" time.

Jon,
You've done your job.

6 - Yep. Mostly, though, both times Simers has written about Ethier, I've been left confused. Snarky jokes aside, it's like the narrative hasn't been as clear.

1 It also sounds like Colletti is being deliberately ambiguous. He's "talking to" other teams about "acquiring proven big leaguers for prospects."

Talking to could mean he's telling them to go pound sand if they think they're going to get Matt Kemp for some old guy.

Prospects could refer to any one of hundreds of players in the Dodger organization.

It's PR, and from that standpoint, he's doing a better job than DePodesta ever did

I think Depo misunderestimated the "PR" aspects of the job. In some ways, he was the classic "technical expert" who (naively, though understandably) thought that simply "doing the right thing based on the information available at the time" was sufficient to make everyone happy. Unfortunately for him and countless others like him, there's much more to being a GM than being able to evaluate talent better than other GMs. You need to be able to "sell" your transactions as well, and to explain to the public why you're doing what you're doing.

The problem, of course, is that the process of explaining may require you to reveal your secrets (e.g. which metrics you used to evaluate the players), which can greatly hinder your ability to make the same moves in the future. Hopefully, your moves will "work" and the results will speak for themselves. But Depo obviously didn't get much of a chance for that to happen.

6-What did TJ say about Ethier today?

10 "He's a good guy to have in the club house, a real professional, and he brings fire to the team/leads by example"

There's every transcation you can ever do.

Jon - I was entertained ... thank you.

9 Concur. The other teams he's "talking to" could be doing the acquiring of the "proven big leaguers for prospects" from us. We're still buyers ... of prospects.

Good Dodgers PR counsel.

As long as he doesn't start talking about a "lock box" ...

I don't envy the job of a baseball GM: tons of pressure to "win now"; bozo columnists ready to rip you no matter what you do, regardless of any facts; fans on the Internet who think they're smarter than you, even though they have no way of hearing what offers you are actually getting from other GMs. Especially during July, I am very thankful that I don't have that job or that lifestyle.

4 Derek Lowe and Takashi Saito to Boston for John Lester, Wily Mo Pena and a player to be named later.

And the only reason there's a PTBNL is because Choi is still on the DL.

11 Here's the first graf:

I REVISITED God's Gift to the Dodgers, to see if my first impression of Andre Ethier being a jerk was correct. Others claimed he was a good guy, the same thing said about Ryan Leaf after our first meeting.

To make him sound like a religious nut AND an immature slob in one sentence seems harsh. Like Ethier is the kid in the Omen or something.

10 While I agree with that to a certain extent, I thought DePodesta was quite good at explaining the rationale behind his moves, when he actually talked about them. I think the problem was that most times he couldn't be bothered with such explanantions.

IOW, it seemed to me more of an unwillingness to explain his moves than an inability to explain them.

What's the deal with Cory Dunlap, I wonder? I always thought he was going to be a Tony Gwynn/John Kruk type hitter, with a great OBP but no real power to speak of. Now he's hitting bombs at Vero like it's going out of style, but he's batting .240.

10 - There is no doubt in my mind that certain people in the media were not willing to listen to what DePodesta had to say, no matter how lucid or sensible or exciting he presented it.

In other words, it was in many respects less about DePodesta's willingness to sell his ideas and more about those people's willingness to buy.

The discussion of DePodesta's PR skills got twisted - inexcusably, in my belief. People would say that DePo didn't sell or explain what he was doing, when the truth was simply that they didn't like what he was doing. It was rather insidious.

DePo will never be Will Rogers, but every time I heard him interviewed, he was completely clear.

I get the feeling DePodesta's primary PR problem was internal. He didn't make the McCourts feel particularly confident that he knew what he was doing, or that he understood the fan side of the game.

He also completely, utterly, and unforgiveably screwed up in his handling of Jim Tracy. Tracy tested him constantly and paid no price for it. That is why I don't really miss DePodesta.

Everything good DePo could have brought us via his shrewd player analysis skills, his fecklessness with the managerial side of his job would've taken away. He was also a poor negotiator with agents -- the Drew contract being the best example.

DePo was a smart guy, but he was no Billy Beane.

20 "DePo was a smart guy, but he was no Billy Beane."

Apparently DePo is on dzzrtRat's "Dead to Me" list. Either that or he is no longer smart...

I read Colletti's "appeasement" statement a little differently. It certainly doesn't mean he's going to gut the farm system, although by itself, it leaves the door open for that. Luckily, he's said enough other sensible things to indicate that he will at least protect the crown jewels.

But what I infer from this latest statement is that we're not going to see the backsides of any more veterans this weekend, and we might just see a couple more typical 2nd-tier minor leaguer for washed-up veteran Colletti deals.

All of this, I say with the reminder to self that talk is cheap.

21. No, he's just no longer "DePo." Having been cast out of the Garden of Chavez, he is now just some dude named Paul DePodesta, no deserving of a nickname.

"Everything good (Colletti) could have brought us via his shrewd (public relations) skills, his fecklessness with the (player analysis) side of his job would've taken away. He was also a poor negotiator with agents -- the (Furcal) contract being the best example."

One thing that I think get's lost in a lot of the moneyball talk that is that, at least according to the way the book portrayed it, Billy Beane is not a brilliant baseball mind(in the traditional or more enlightened sense). His asset was his open mind and willingness to explore alternatives. Depo, on the other hand, WAS brilliant as sort of a back office kind of guy. He would do the back office paperwork, explain it to the dealmaker, and let the dealmaker take care of everything else. I think that's the problem with Depo, he may be a great consultant and analyst, but he'll never have the skill Billy Beane does with people. Just as Billy Beane wouldn't be much without people doing research for him, Depo wasn't much without people taking care of the person to person part of it. And it's a shame, really, because I think a team in his ideal image would be a great one.

From my personal experiences, Andre Ethier is cordial and friendly off the field.

I might be breaking the rules on here, but off the field Kenny Lofton comes off as an uppity prick.

25 And that is why Mr. Paul DePodesta of west Los Angeles is "dead to me" indeed. He is now providing that brilliant back office analysis to Sandy Alderson. For many of you, the Giants are The Hated Ones. For me, the Padres are the Even More Hated Ones. I root for their demise almost as intensely as I root for the Yankees'.

In the next decade, the Dodgers and D-backs will compete on raw talent. But the Padres will break our hearts repeatedly because they've got one of the smartest collections of people in the league running that team now.

22 Yes it's just talk but I'd prefer something more Weisman-esque- "We're looking to do anything that improves the team this year and/or down the road." If Colletti were to package Baez and Izturis for some starter-in-waiting like Brandon McCarthy he would have to backpedal on what he said 3 days prior. This gets back to the big market dilemma where you're always a "buyer."

27
Rewind a year ago, and think how you'd have felt if you had been told "One year from now, Dodgers' GM Paul DePodesta will be working for the Padres, and Giants Assistant GM Ned Colletti will be working for the Dodgers."

Ugh.

26 Funny thing about Lofton - part of the reason Colletti signed him was because Lofton would help the team chemistry. But in John Schuerholz's book about the Braves, he says Lofton was one player who just did not fit in well with the organization, and the Braves were happy to be rid of him.

I'd heard that Lofton wears out his welcome with every team he's been with. That's why I especially didn't want him on the team.

30. Yeah. And Lofton's one of those who I've never seen 'hanging out' with other teammates.

One thing that I found really odd 2 months ago. A foursome of Dodgers went out together, to eat I presumed, and four were Brett Tomko, Lance Carter, Aaron Sele and ......get this.......Nomar Garciaparra.

27.
I agree, the Padres are building one of the scariest baseball brain trusts outside of Boston over there. But they're a long ways away, given the state of their farm(which no genius can overcome that quickly). What's scarier to me is the almost anti-intellectualism of Coletti. I've brought it up and I'll bring it up again, but that comment making fun of VORP(esoteric qualitative blah blah blah) showed that he's not willing to consider both sides. What I found interesting about Depo is he let Logan White do his thing with the draft, showing willingness to open up to new ideas.
I'm afraid Coletti can screw up a good thing, a la Sabean, by trading for old veterans.

29 Bizarro world.

Although it plays into my longtime fantasy of all the west coast teams breaking off and forming their own six-team league. DePodesta, Colletti, but also Alderson, Scioscia, Hatcher, Piazza, Kent, Beltre.... Baseball of the West. Screw Sportscenter and the east coast media's obsessions with the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs. We can declare independence, and heat up the local rivalries to a boiling point.

All I can say is that when the Dodgers got Lofton, I was surprised to see him referred to as a chemistry guy. But all the reports up to now I had heard this season had been positive.

Tomko, I've heard, is a good guy.

30 - Yeah, I've always wondered about that, too. I mean, I like Lofton as a hitter a bit more than many folks here, but everything I used to hear about him on WFAN when he was with the Yankees was that they couldn't wait to be rid of him. I can't think of many players who can't get along with Joe Torre.

Tomko, I've heard, is a good guy

And he can draw perty pictures...

33 *"...screw up a good thing by trading for old veterans."

Let me know when he does that. Then I'll join the Colletti-bashing. As of now, he's traded non-prospects for marginal but potentially useful major leaguers. These trades might not be great, but they're hardly Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio, or Paul Konerko for Jeff Shaw. The strength of the Dodger farm system is undiminished by these trades.

He's signed some old veterans as tap-dancers til the prospects are ready to play. But he hasn't given up anything for them.

Colletti's image is out of whack with reality.

26 I think the last work you used clearly violates the house rules, but it's the modifier that bothers me. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, that all you mean was "arrogant," or something like that, but I've only ever heard "uppity" used in one other context, one with horrible historical (racist) baggage in this country. I'd be careful about bandying that term about. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it - just an unfortunate word choice. And maybe my reaction says more about me than anything else, in which case, I apologize for even bringing it up.

39 That word sent alarms off in my head too. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive but I'd never use that term in a conversation.

38.
I think Coletti's record up to this point is that, well, he hasn't done all that much right or wrong. He hasn't jeopordized the future or screwed up the present, given that we didn't have much of a present to deal with anyway. But he's from the Brian Sabean school of thought and, from what he's indicated, seems to be on the wrong side of the fence in terms of objective analysis.

Wow, 26 slipped by me. Yeah, it seems pretty obvious that that description was inappropriate.

Well anyone who talks about themself in the third person can't be good for team chemistry. Kenny Speed or not.

38. That's right. Colletti hasn't done any damage yet. Many of us are just looking for themes in the many things he has done to find a way to predict how he'd approach something with higher stakes.

In March/April, some of us allowed that signing all those vets was probably pointless, with the single virtue that they could keep the boat afloat while we waited for the kids to be ready. The contracts were short term, so there'd be minimal blocking of the prospects. We also (some of us) opined that the trade deadline would be a better test because (1)the pressure to buy would be much higher, and (2) the kids would be that much more seasoned.

For those most worried about Colletti's Sabeanesque qualities, this season really could not have worked out better. Several prospects have been up for quite a while and performed very well. The team is mired in last place, on an historic losing skein, so the pressure to buy is as low as it could be with an impatient owner and impatient media to mollify.

If he STILL buys (at high prices), then our worst fears were probably correct.

If he does nothing or nothing of consequence, then we don't know much (was it the lower pressure to buy, or is he really targeting the future?).

If he sells, we can rejoice. But I think his latest comment indicates that he won't be selling. Insofar as his best quality seems to be his relationship with the media, I doubt he wants to explain why he lied/changed his mind about selling. Talk is cheap, but it ain't free.

26 From my personal experiences, Andre Ethier is cordial and friendly off the field.

I saw him brush of a kid a while back, but I don't hold that against him.

"Uppity" bothered me as well, but I am quite confident it was used without racial subtext.

38 - dzzrt, if I may say so, your comments are typically even-handed, well-reasoned and fair. I may not agree with them, but I appreciate your tone.

By the way, I believe it's fair to also say that DePodesta's image was out of whack with reality as well. I'm still waiting for Colletti to be stuck with a "Google Boy" nickname or "pocket protector" reference by the Times.

46 - Even without "uppity," the language was inappropriate for here. Nothing personal ... just so's you know.

Holy cow. I offered Barry Zito in exchange for Travis Hafner in a Yahoo! fantasy league and the guy counteroffered wanted Mike Gonzalez instead of Zito.

This might be my most lopsided fantasy trade since I got Lance Berkman by giving away 2002-era Billy Koch.

Is anyone else hoping Soriano stinks it up in front of Ned and crew?

49 - Sure, and I get why you're asking, but I'm hoping all the Nationals stink it up. I'd like to taste victory again.

I think someone made reference to it yesterday, but in case anyone missed it and has a BP subscription, Joe Sheehan's "Not so Artful Dodgers" article on 26 July is terrific. Preaching to the choir around here, perhaps, because he too has the "uh oh, Colletti smells a lot like Sabean, and with the Dodger farm system, that'd be a terrible thing" read as many here. I only mention it because Sheehan is very good, and he analyzes all of MLB in the same way that we dissect the Dodgers. So, whereas some of the criticism/concern about Colletti here could be chalked up to nitpicking by glass-is-half-empty fans who hope for the best but fear the worst, Sheehan is a Yankee fan who doesn't really care one way or the other about the Dodgers, so if he sees the same thing that the first group sees, it's probably correct.

Which is, by the way, one of the beauties of quantitative, objective analysis. 2+2=4, no matter who is doing the math.

Derek Lowe and Takashi Saito to Boston for John Lester, Wily Mo Pena and a player to be named later.

If only Theo was dumb enough to do that....

Holy cow. I offered Barry Zito in exchange for Travis Hafner in a Yahoo! fantasy league and the guy counteroffered wanted Mike Gonzalez instead of Zito.

Get ready for half your league to protest that trade. Weird.,..I just unloaded Zito as well...Zito and Figgins for Jason Bay.

For those of you with access to a television, and some modicum of interest, Floyd Landis will be on OTL (ESPN) at 12:30 pacific time. Basically, right about...now.

46 Gosh, thanks.

I have a blog where I'm much more unreasonable if you want to see my dark side.

http://johnstodderinexile.wordpress.com/

49 Having said all I've said about Colletti and the deadline market... what about Abreu? Notwithstanding BP's obviously unassailable math, I think he's worth a prospect or two. And he wouldn't be a rental. He'd be a very expensive purchase, but maybe worth it. Especially if we could induce one of fever-pitched AL teams to cart away J.D. Drew.

51 I like BP too, but I do tend to view their critiques of the Dodgers with some concern due to the fact the Dodgers hired one of their favorites in Paul DePodesta and then fired him, wrongly or rightly and hired a guy who comes from a "baseball" background that they have never really liked.

That is not to say that what he says does not have some credence, I am just saying as I both a BP Premium user and buyer of their annual prospectus, I have always believed that they had a lot invested in the Beanes, Riccardis, Daniels, and Depodestas in succeeding and to have one of their own ridiculed and dismissed was not something that they took well.

So I think that to say Sheehan and the rest of the BP crew see things a certain way and therefore backs up some folks here, well you could certainly put them on one side but I would not say that they are as objective as you might think.

Don't know if anyone has reported this yet:

Carlos Lee has been traded to the Rangers for Lance Nix and Kevin Mench.

All this uppity talk peaked my interest as I cannot recall it holding the same baggage over the pond. If google pointed me in the right direction then the connotation really does take the jibe way out of line.

I am all for reinstating the original persnickety into modern usage as it is hard to offend or be offended by such a fun word to say.

This is from yesterday, so forgive me if it was discussed already:

Dodger minor leaguer arrested

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9574661

Is/was this kid a prospect?

55. That's probably fair.

54. CBS Sportsline says the Dodgers are inquiring about Abreu, but who knows if there's anything to it. Oh, and the Phillies need pitching, so I'm not sure how that'd work without giving up Broxton or Billingsley.

57. No, it's an Americanism.

I use persnickety when the occasion permits. Terrific word.

I'm still waiting for Colletti to be stuck with a "Google Boy" nickname or "pocket protector" reference by the Times.

How about "Ray?"

54

is that a picture of you? if so, wich one are you?

59

I wonder if Abreu's power #"s would drop coming to L.A.?

58

He was a 7th round pick last year and we gave him a six-figure bonus to keep him from attending Texas Tech. He only pitched 5 innings last year and had not pitched this year. He had some sort of shoulder operation which has prevented him from pitching for the last calendar year -- maybe it was Tommy John, I don't know.

54 I tried all through my college years to look like those guys but couldn't quite pull it off.

My pic shows up in a post entitled Self-Portrait, July 2006. My wife hates, hates, hates that picture.

57 - Ever seen Blazing Saddles? That's what I think of, and it is most certainly used in a derogatory (though satirical) manner.

63 I read where he is now barred from Dodgertown and I thinked they suspected him since they caught him on tape. So his days as a Dodger is done.

Last night Nate gave some thoughts on John Meloan, a University of Arizona pitcher (Logan drafted a college pitcher!), under the story in today's Baseball America Daily Dish on Scott Elbert, most of it was mentioned last night but I thought I would put this in, [Meloan's] electric fastball has reportedly been clocked as high as 98 mph for Vero Beach.

62 How much could they drop, lesson is never win the HR hitting contest if you are not a HR hitter.

58

I stole bubble gum when I was a kid.

but seriously that's just dead wrong.

62 - Abreu's power numbers can't drop much more than they already have since the All Star break last year. He has hit only 8 this year and 6 after ASB last year. This from a perennial 30/30 player. I know, as I picked him for my fantasy team this year thinking I was getting a 5 category player. I hate to bring up "dried out from getting off the juice" but something is awry. He is still a young player yet.

The geniuses on 570AM radio just now said the Dodgers should be buyers and should trade their top 3 prospects for Barry Zito. How do these guys get jobs as sports radio talk show hosts!? vr, Xei

58
Sadly, he seems to be a suspect now instead of a prospect.
By the way, are you a Cal grad? I am one from quite a few years back.

67

Well Kent's #'s didn't drop all that much, but he is a hall of famer.

67 Abreu's got what, 8 HRs now? But his OBP is .430. He's basically a healthy version of JD Drew without as many defensive tools. Still a valuable player.

70

reading that comment didn't make me feel good, probably you listing to it was even worse.

Abreu's also got more career steals than HRs (261 vs 198).

Then maybe Abreu is worth taking a flyer on -- offering not much in the way of players, but taking on his contract. He might recover his stroke. We need to find a taker for Drew.

I don't know. It ain't my money.

Zito I'm willing to wait til next year for.

59 Regarding Abreu, Jon's colleague Tom Verducci has a squib in the current print SI suggesting that Abreu's not the guy we think he is.

"Clubs better think twice about trading for Phillies outfielder Bobby Abreu, who is due $15M next year and a $2M buyout in 2008. In 584 at bats since the 2005 All-Star break Abreu had hit only 14 home runs -- just five of which were outside of cozy Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia."

76 - Talk over the offseason involved Lowe for Abreu, but I'm not sure the Phillies are interested in him anymore.

If only Elbert were closer to the bigs, I think you could find a taker for Lowe. He's expensive, but so is Abreu.

the guy already had a ton of money!!? I just don't get it.

Here's something from Tony Jackson in today's Dodger Org Report from the subscription side of the website, again I will paraphrase.

There is some talk, albeit preliminary, of converting [Sergio} Pedroza to catcher, a position he played in high school.

... Logan White is quietly, but cautiously, pushing for club officials to at least try [to] move ... Pedroza, an experiment that might take place as soon as this fall in instructional league.

71 Regrets to Jon, but almost everyone here is a Cal grad. Maybe we should talk about football.

80 We have Russ Martin now. We don't need any catchers again, ever.

80

I guess he has the right type of arm for the position.Dose he have good foot work? (thinking out loud sorry)

Now 20 minutes less than 72 hours to the trade deadline, DT readers are waiting with baited breath to fire away at Colletti. Big action should happen on Sunday and into Monday if action takes place regarding trades. What will the Blue look like come Tuesday? Stay tuned for further developments!! Same DT time, same DT website!!

81
If Cal can get solid play at QB, this could be the year.

81 Not too rub salt in a wound, (okay just a little) one of the best athletic performances I have ever seen personally was Maurice Drew's against Cal at the Rose Bowl last year.

He took control of a game and led UCLA to one of their several comebacks last season.

Huge crowd (I think that day over 165,000 were at both the Rose Bowl and the Coliseum) but I saw a lot of quiet Cal fans that day as I exited the Rose Bowl.

Okay, now back to the Dodgers.

86
That was a tremendous game by Drew. As a Cal grad, with a daughter who was a freshman at UCLA last year, I couldn't be too crushed, especially when she called me on her cell phone from the Rose Bowl in a voice hoarse from yelling.

55--

Excellent post. You supply context that makes a lot of sense.

71. Yup. Go Bears. Finished in '89. Oh man. Suddenly that seems like a long time ago.

86. I agree. It was impressive. He just had a gear that no one else had. All of those big runs were sprints to the sideline, with the defense taking what turned out to be bad angles.

Trade Izturis and Baez to the Braves for Betemit and their worst reliever.

Atlanta is desperate for relief. Izturis gives them cover at three IF spots, which is what Betemit does.

Atlanta probably wouldn't do it, but one can hope that Colletti pitching such deals.

89
Class of 1970. That WAS a long time ago. Go Bears.

Pedroza as a catcher seems farfetched, but I like the creative thinking. Martin is irrelevant to the debate. Creating optimal value at all levels is what the Dodgers should be doing.
Martin converted from 3B/2B. Pedroza isn't as athletic, bu maybe can become a decent platoon guy who is dangerous against a certain class of pitchers, as his HR/K rates seem to indicate.

OK, I still haven't seen it all, but I'm getting closer. Today, whilst out walking the dog, I had two "Student Driver" cars pass me.

Both cars were BMWs.

What debate?

90. Perhaps I'm being dense, but other than removing Izzy and Baez, both of whom you'd think would have some value to someone, what would the Dodgers get from this deal? Presumably, we'd just dump the "worst reliever," so why is Betemit the best we can do for Izturis and Baez? Pure addition by subtraction?

88 While I think that bhsportsguy's comment in 55 is generally a fair caveat, in the case of the Sheehan article I referenced, I don't think it's relevant. His main point is that while the Sabean way might not have been a terrible idea for a club with no farm to speak of (and by implication, Bonds to build around for several years), it would be a bad idea for a team with the Dodger farm system. That when the future is this bright, it's probably dumb to make every deal for the short term.

I really do think it's fair, and he certainly doesn't go as far as some here have about Colletti's intelligence or provenance. It's not even about player evaluation, which is a big part of the sabermetric hobby horse.

95
I agree. I sure don't think we got enough for Seo and Navarro in Hendrickson and Hall.

95 - Not a fan of Betemit? He seems to be Aybar-like, but with a little more power and a little less plate discipline. He's not very good defensively, but at least the Braves aren't afraid to stick him at short.

I'd take him as a super-utility player, even at the expense of Aybar.

97

When I think about it Seo for Hendrickson was pretty much even, Navarro for Hall was a bit on the Devil Rays side, but Navarro had no future here(same can be said about hall)

Another "in case you missed it" -- A few posts ago at Bronx Banter, Alex Belth has one of his great "So I was walking out into the City" reflections up, titled "Way Out In Brooklyn." A moving, beautifully written slice of a New York life.

Why would the Braves want Izturis?

Actaully this makes more sense:

Why would the "Insert team name" want Izturis?

Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but to do or die.

84 Baited breath is bad breath indeed.

98. I have no different opinion about Betemit than the one you've just stated. But why does that seem like a fair trade for Izzy and Baez? Maybe for Izzy (better bat for better glove) - utility guy either way. And while I share the disdain for Baez (at least at current prices), I'm not sure he's literally worthless.

I'm not sure he's literally worthless.

You obviously mean in the trade market, where that's probably true, given today's trade, and not on the mound, where he is today and always has been.

102 - Toronto, for one. They've got some defensive issues in the infield, especially at short.

Anyone want Jason Frasor back?

So, is this a scheduled absence for Bob?

106. Obviously.

Any roster move yet to clear room for Tomko?

Anyone else have a (wishful?) feeling that they may be trying to trade - or DFA/trade - Jose Cruz? Either that or Carrara will be sent down, is my guess....

They'd DFA Ledee before Jose Cruz I would think.

If no trades are made, I would think Carrara would be sent down.

104

There's something fishy about that, Marty.

By the way, how's the pooch?

97
I agree that Navarro had no future with the Dodgers, but for such a (supposedly) highly touted catcher, I thought we could have gotten more. By the way, he has thrown out 10 of 21 would be base-stealers with Tampa Bay in 15 games after going 0-for-16 with the Dodgers this season. Navarro is hitting .283 with the Devil Rays.

110 Sending Carrara down would be the most prudent thing to do, we don't need another soft tossing righty in the pen.

DFAing the guy with a .350 on base, on the other hand, not that great of an idea.

113 Navarro could have been well-suited as a backup to Martin - cheap, with a decent bat, and under club control.

"Backup catcher" is not a position that I generally think should be filled by a player making more than $500K.

100 Thanks for that, Sam.

With Jon's always-on work, Belth's latest and dzzrtRatt's blog, I've had an afternoon of good reading. Very little work has been accomplished, but it's Friday, after all.

110
Here's hoping it is not Carrara and his 2.45 ERA. Since he became a Dodger for the first time in 2001, he has basically done what has been asked of him in three separate stays with the club.

111 - Aren't Ledee or Cruz better options than the Aaron Guiel's and Endy Chavez's that playoff teams are carrying as 4th OFers or pinch hitters?

So, is this a scheduled absence for Bob?

I wondered the same thing. I know he sometimes stays away when things get too rough, but I wasn't sure if the current climate qualified.

117 The 2.45 ERA in 14 innings? This is still Giovanni "I can't believe we brought in" Carrara.

112 Thanks for asking. He's slowly recovering. He's almost 100% back to normal on his left hind leg. I'd say about 50% on his right hind leg. He still cannot wag his tail and still can't do his bathroom functions on "command". There was some slight progress with doing "#2" this week. That's about as much detail as you'd like on that I'm guessing. I had him home last weekend and will bring him home this weekend. Last weekend he did very well walking and going up and down (with help) the stairs. He actually jumped up on the couch before I could try to stop him. He really is happy when he's home, so I think that helps. I just want to see steady progress. It makes it easier to go through if I know he may get at least most of the way back.

118 Well, that's why I was thinking that maybe someone like the Yankees would trade us something for Cruz, since he has some talent and value, compared to the desperation players they've been using. But then we're not exactly going to get Philip Hughes for him, either.

Anyway, all conjecture... we'll wait and probably hear soon what's up.

120 Or Giovanni "please don't let him pitch a second inning" Carrara :)

115
I don't think making Navarro, at the age of 22, the back-up catcher behind a young Russell Martin (23) would have set well with Navarro. I think that would have become a problem.

Bob was mistaken for a Croatian and deported.

FYI: Mel Gibson arrested for DUI in Malibu according to LA Observed.

121

That's good news! Thanks for the report.

I'm a huge lover of Labs - had one when I was growing up - so I'm really pulling for you and your buddy.

127 Thanks, I really appreciate that.

Bob was mistaken for Mel Gibson and arrested.

I'm sure Bob gets mistaken for Mel Gibson all the time :)

130 - That's what I thought when I saw Bob in that checkered soccer jersey. Then I thought "Mel Gibson doesn't wear glasses".

124 That's a valid concern. But I don't care. Play where and when you're asked, and play well enough to raise your market value sufficiently to command value in exchange if you want to be somewhere else.

I don't think the downside of the chance that a young player is unhappy with his role is worth losing control over his contract and acqiuring a more expensive but not more talented replacement.

I think Bob told us he'd be out of town (or at least "away") for the pre-deadline weekend. No truth to the rumor that he's been spirited away to a Redbird Nation Re-Education Camp in the Ozarks.

It's 65 degrees where I am.

133 I guess my point would be more succinctly put as "How much better are happy hitters than sad hitters? My guess is, not that much. Is it worth a million dollars a year? Probably not."

126
FYI: Mel Gibson arrested for DUI in Malibu according to LA Observed.

well it is friday.

134 Is that what the library thermostat says?

121 Hooray for the dog! He's on the 60-day DL but with a good chance at coming back at full strength next season, huh?

138 I and my creditors hope so :)

It's 65 degrees where I am

That narrows it down a little bit.

Allright, next hobby horse: Andrew, I hope things are going well and you're still on the wagon. If not, of course, you can always get back on.

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=228&p=2&c=550474

The voice of the fans has been heard and the responses to our article, "Should We Call in the Dogs?", asking if for perspectives on whether the team should attempt to trade for veterans, at the cost of younger players. The replies have been running at about 93% in favor of using the rest of the 2006 season to see which of our minor leaguers can help us and which can't.

134. Hmmmmm........
Apparently he's just hiding in his (overworked) refrigerator.

Hey Bob - are the eggs coolin? the butter gettin hard? jello jigglin'?

Gadzooks, I never realized how, um, weird that sounds. For some reason, I never noted the double entendres when Chick Hearn said it...

Wow, I didn't realize Blake DeWitt now has 17 homers. And DT favorite name Alberto Bastardo turned in 6 1/3 solid innings for the win in that game Wednesday.

132
Fair point. I guess when I think of back-up catchers, I think of Robert De Niro in the great 1973 film "Bang The Drum Slowly."

100 Sam, thanks for the pointer to Alex's piece. That's a wonderful bit of writing.

5 starts 0 wins 4.97 era teams are hitting .306 off Henerickson.

5 starts 0 wins 5.58 era teams are hitting .306 off Seo since the trade.

If god forbid, Martin gets hurt, then who catches in 2007, Toby Hall?

thats not a good trade.

66
If you don't mind here is the rest of paragraph:
'Dodgers righthander Jon Meloan, who dominated the low Class A South Atlantic league as a reliever, is having little trouble with the transition to a starting role at high Class A Vero Beach. Meloan, a fifth-round pick out of Arizona in 2005, posted a 1.54 ERA and 41-7 strikeout-walk ratio in 23 relief innings at low A Columbus. He made his second start (and third appearance) for Vero Beach on Thursday against Fort Myers, allowing two runs on five hits and no walks over 5 2/3 innings, while striking out a career-high 12. His electric fastball has reportedly been clocked as high as 98 mph for Vero Beach."

Lineup posted on ItD

Fookie
Lofton
Drew
Olmedo
3.5
Martin
Izzy
Martinez
C-Bills

147 Don't forget, one of those starts Hendrickson allowed four unearned runs.

I always found Simers to be a vile hack, but that piece is New Yorker-worthy. I'm surprised and totally pleased.

I look forward to tonight's game with a mixture of dread and more dread.

I'll also say for once it helps that the Dodgers are a West Coast team.

I just got home after a couple months of summer school, and my family is hosting a party.

A surprise birthday party for one of my sister's friends. Yippie.

At least I won't miss any of the game.

149

Still no Repko. I have to wonder if he aggravated his ankle when he made the start on Monday. He's only appeared once as a PH since.

From BaseballHQ on our High A boys:
"Blake DeWitt (3B, LAD) was a 1st round selection of the Dodgers in 2004. DeWitt has good bat speed and raw power, which is finally starting to show. On 6/2 DeWitt was hitting .290/.338/.386 with 12 doubles, 2 home runs, and a 0.48 EYE in 207 AB. Since then he has been on a power rampage. For the year DeWitt is now hitting .269/.341/.442 with 17 doubles, 16 home runs, and a 0.58 EYE in 387 AB (since 6/14 DeWitt has hit 13 home runs!).

Xavier Paul (OF, LAD) is having a nice rebound season in his second full season with High-A Vero Beach. In 2005 Paul hit just .247/.328/.392 with 15 doubles, 7 home runs, and a 0.40 EYE in 288 AB. This year Paul is showing some of the promise that prompted the Dodgers to select him in the 4th round in 2003. For the year he is hitting .294/.348/.453 with 20 doubles, 11 home runs, 15 steals in 26 attempts, and 0.35 EYE in 360 AB. Long-term the 21-year-old Paul may never live up to expectations, but he is at least showing something in 06. "

154 -

On 6/2 - .290/.338/.386 but only 2 HR's
now - .269/.341/.442 with 16 HR's

where'd that batting average go? Has he only been hitting HR's since then?

In front of the Detroit scouts who are in town to take a look at Soriano, JD wakes up from whatever has been ailing him and impresses the BP crowd by walking 7 times in 12 at bats and driving in one run with a ground ball to 2nd with a runner on 3rd with less then one out. Soriano is mocked for only getting on base 3 times over the weekend and even if 2 of the hits were home runs and he drove in 7 of the 9 runs scored by the Nat's during the 3 game sweep the BP crowd couldn't stop buzzing about the incredible on base performance of JD even though he never scored or hit one ball out of the infield as the Dodgers managed just 4 runs during the sweep. Little said the performance reminded him of when Mark Bellhorn was a key player for his Sox back in the day.

It looks like Yuliesky Gourriel has defected from Cuba

http://tinyurl.com/npxbz

Jeff Kent and Danys Baez to Cuba
Gourriel to the Dodgers

5 years $30 million, get it done Ned.

155
Are you complaining? He's hit more home runs in six weeks then the entire Dodger team.

158 - Not complaining, of course. Just thought that was odd, that he'd be at .290, go on a 2-month binge of homers, and see his average drop by 20 points.

Miltie you beat me to it. Heard he wants to go to the Yankees, but they already have a second and third baseman. Could he be Lowell's replacement in Boston?

157

G.M. must be feeling liking hungry wolves about that.

Orel claims Verlander has produced more than Liriano...

sorry Orel you're wrong.

157

how much would G.M's offer for that type of talent?(I'm wondering)

Could he be Lowell's replacement in Boston?

I hate that!! it's our turn to have a superstar. HERE ME NED!!!!

154-

Not too late for Xavier Paul. The lad has phenomenal batspeed. Not that bat speed is highly determinative, but his is rare.

Paul is one of those guys who can reveal just how good a franchise's developmental talents are. He has some things to work with that could give you a good player but also has some profound flaws.

Everyone's his own person, but my belief is that Paul should study Brian Giles. Similar sized LHP who developed power in time -- but was always good at controlling the strike zone.

Then again, maybe not. Earlier in his career, Paul was so determined to work the count that he became too defensive, found himself in 0-2, 1-2 counts way too often.

lhb

162 - He has done it for longer this year. Where would the Twins be if Liriano had opened in the rotation, rather than Lohse or any of those other stiffs for the first 6 weeks of the season?

162 Verlander's pitched a full season. Liriano's probably a better pitcher, but it's not unreasonable to say Verlander has done more, because he has.

157 Yulieski Gourriel is a good player. He won't show as much power in the Majors as he did in Cuba, but he is FAST. I saw him play in the WBC; quick bat; very fast runner. Over the stadium loudpeaker, his first name was pronounced "Julie".

167 --

Depends. Maybe Liriano had some finetuning to do before he joined the Twins. The minors are a good place to do it.

169 - He was actually in middle relief, pitching 2-3 innings at a time, usually after the dog-food starters put the Twins in an insurmountable deficit.

166 In fairness to the Twins, I think they were managing Liriano's innings so that he wouldn't be fatigued or break down at the end of the season, or possibly in the playoffs. Rookie starting pitchers typically have to overcome fatigue/durability hurdles at 130, 160, and 190 IP that they've never crossed before. Managing Liriano's innings as a rookie in the bullpen, while they sorted out their roster, was proabably a good decision.

Verlander was a heavily worked college pitcher, and had been over those innings hurdles before, which is one reason he started in the Twins' rotation.

sorry, I meant 167.

Liriano's first start came 5/19, after 12 relief appearances.

156

Yes, yes, yes.

Or as Dean Moriarity would say, Yass!

173

Some clubs love to use the bullplen to ease a young starter into the majors.
My hope is the Dodgers take that approach with Broxton and transform him into a starter now that his feet are wet.

How many runs will Izzy drive in with his glove tonight?

168

he also has a great arm.

171

Sensible. That's why I was so happy that Sele bought time for Billingsley. It's asking a lot for a rookie starter to work an entire season in the majors, especially if you plan on contending.

165 Sorry, but this just confused me.

1. Paul has great bat speed, but that is always sufficient, but his is really great.

2. Paul should be like Giles and control the strike zone, but maybe he's been too patient in the past.

Other than reminding everyone that controlling the strike zone and taking pitches aren't the same thing, I'm not sure what to take from this.

171 - I realize that, and I'm sounding more critical than I really intend. But looking at the garbage that was in the rotation to start, I think they could've monitored his innings as a starter just as well.

As a Twins fan, I would've rather seen Liriano yanked after 5 scoreless each start, rather than watch Lohse pulled in the 3rd after giving up a half-dozen.

171 176 Yes, I think the Twins have done a great job with both Santana and Liriano. Some were calling for both to be placed in the rotation earlier than they were, but I'm mightily impressed by their development. Maybe they're so good, it didn't matter how they were handled, but I don't really believe that. I too am hoping for similar paths by Broxton and Kuo.

And bear in mind that Minny got both guys from other organizations. I think their front office oughtta get a little more credit too. They make mistakes too (D Ortiz), but they sure do a good job for a small market team.

Toby Hall and Sandy Alomar have combined for 83ABs from the back up catching position.

They have 0bb's and only 5 extra base hits.

Yardwork has a post from old friend HSC with some jabs at a certain columnist:

http://www.yard-work.org/

162- They're both good pitchers to have. I realize Liriano's a better strikeout guy, but I'm kinda partial to Verlander because he's from the Richmond area.

Verlander had a complete game shutout, which Liriano hasn't done (oh boo hoo). Maybe that's what excited Hershiser.

Either way, I'm happy with both in my rotation on my fantasy team.

180

What I meant to say is that a young B. Giles is similar physically to Paul and because of it I used to believe he would be a good hitter for Paul to study.

But in terms of hitting approach, maybe not. Paul tried very hard to work the count early in his career. Turned out, he probably was overly patient, falling into too many pitchers counts and becoming a strikeout machine.

My personal belief is that many HS draftees (hitters) should be allowed to err on the side of aggressiveness in the low, low minors.

There's a raging debate among development people on this subject. Suffice that there are many shades of gray.

Again, Paul is an intriguing player because with the right developmental methods, he could still be pretty darn interesting. Very quick bat, good athlete, some power and presents a small strikezone.

Thought this was an interesting item to note (though likely not news to most of us), put up by Josh R on the Inside the Dodgers blog:
"The Nationals and Dodgers rank first and third in the Major Leagues, respectively, in days missed to the disabled list. Washington has missed a whopping 1,058 games due to injury while the Dodgers' 763 days is third behind the Braves (766). At some point during the season, the Dodgers have lost six everyday starters to injury - Nomar Garciaparra, Jeff Kent, Bill Mueller, Dioner Navarro, Cesar Izturis and Kenny Lofton as well as closer Eric Gagné, setup man Yhency Brazoban, starter Brett Tomko and key reserve outfielders Ricky Ledee and Jason Repko. Overall, the team has missed 672 games to the DL."

Does anyone make sigs for sports boards?

182-

Kuo is an interesting one. Excellent move to give him starting work, if only because he needs the innings to get more touch and feel and body awareness.

I stll doubt that Kuo profiles as a starter in the majors -- two Tommy Johns are a factor there for me. But I love what the Dodgers did there, although maybe Jacksonville would have been a better club for him.

The next step for Broxton: Tell him in October that he will become a starter in 2007, even if means putting him in Jacksonville.

The predicted benefits: He becomes a No. 4-5 starter later in 2007 with the potential to be a No. 2-3 guy. He improves his touch and feel, which will pay off even if he later returns to relief. He regains his changeup, which was a good pitch before the relief role forced him to pretty much abandon it. He is forced to become more vigilant about controlling his weight.

Potential negative: You weaken your bullpen in 2007, perhaps mis-using a pitcher who potentially could be a good closer.

Lots of interesting storlyine with the Dodgers on the development front.

187 so really the difference between this year and last year is that this year there is no scapegoat.

Look out everyone - the Giants just clinched their playoff berth, acquiring veteran lefty Mike Stanton from the Nationals. Must have liked what they saw of him this week when they were swept.

I've been wondering why the Dodgers weren't being talked about regarding Miggy Tejada but Jason Stark just said that we are now one of four teams trying to acquire him. He still has 3 years left on a reasonable deal and I'm all for making a run at him. We should have signed him as a FA in the 1st place. Always been one of my favorites since the A's days. Then he and Lowe can make nice.

Miguel Tejada: Because Four Shortstops In One Lineup Is Never Enough!

Hmm, I was wondering that too. With the 3 years left on the contract it makes him already more appealing than some of the other hitters being talked about. Sounds like the Astros and Angels are considered more of the front-runners for him, though. Who would we be okay with giving up with (realistically, and no "Jose Cruz and Denys Baez for Tejada" proposals)

194. I'd give up all 3 of our 4 SSs for him. Martinez, Izturis, and one of Nomar/Furcal. I'd even work a deal to get Alex Cora back, and throw him in as well.

If we're looking to take on overpaid players, why not Pat Burrell? Philly is willing to give him away for pretty much nothing, and Burrell at two years, 27 million is a heck of a lot more tempting than giving Carlos Lee 60 million plus.

I wanted us to sign Tejada too. Too bad we don't have any starting pitchers to give them unless they want Lowe.

das411 says "thank you Abraham Nunez"

you guys know if Jon is gonna make a game day thread?

To get Tejada, my guess is you're looking at something like Broxton, LaRoche and Guzman and Izzy. Anyone up for that?

Has Shea "The Next Jeff Bagwell" Hillenbrand changed the balance of power in the NL West yet?

201 -

The guy must be quite a player. How many major leaguers have ever had a stadium named after them.

202: Hiram Bithorn, I think.

199: He's pretty reliable. I'm hoping for a fresh clean one; I've got a big long Nationals comment burning a hole in my pocket . . .

Utley just got his hit.

Where do we go to get a Chase Utley?

Geez, he got you a Hendrickson, a Baez, a Carter, a Hall, and now you want a Chase Utley? Selfish.

203 -

Bravo Sam. I would have never thought of that one.

Remember, Friday games start a half-hour later, so Jon has some extra time.

we should make a run for Yuliesky Gourriel

207

oh o.k. sorry about that, just wondering out loud.

I've been gone most of the day...are there any legs to this Tejada info? Or is it just usual ESPN BS?

Tejada would be the power bat we're looking for...not this year, but for the next few.

Even though the season is over, little things like Izturis batting 7th still humor me.

201 Hank Aaron should have, but Ted Turner named the new field after himself, thus landing himself on my Dead to Me list.

211-

seriously. You just start to wonder about management when this happens.

Anyone know anything about Shairon Martis, the 19 yr old RHP that the Giants traded away to get Stanton? Is Sabean up to his old tricks (i.e., is Martis a top prospect like so many before him)? Or was this just young junk for old junk? The other GM was Bowden, so it seems possible that Sabean didn't lose his shirt on this one...

211/213. Oh geez, who cares? 7th or 8th won't make a dime's worth of difference, esp. when the other guy is Ramon Martinez.

Now, getting Martin up out of the 8th slot needed doing, but this just doesn't matter.

Man, even the rumor mill is boring this year. It's not like anyone's ever held accountable for spreading garbage -- and yet there seems to be less of it than usual.

Must be the nationwide heat wave. Everyone's too hot to generate misinformation.

214 From Rotoworld:

Nationals acquired RHP Shairon Martis from the Giants for LHP Mike Stanton.
Martis received some attention when he pitched a seven-inning no-hitter for the Netherlands against Panama in the WBC. The 19-year-old right-hander was 6-4 with a 3.64 ERA, 76 H and 66/21 K/BB in 76 2/3 IP for low Single-A Augusta this season. He has a fair amount of upside, but he's not exactly a top prospect right now. Still, it's hard not to like this trade for the Nationals.

Seems like too much to give up for a retread like Stanton.

214

he throw a no hitter in the WBC, he's only 18 but come on, Staton is 39, I can't believe it, they should check Sebean's brain.

they should check Sebean's brain

Yep, vanilla pudding.

Yep, vanilla pudding.

yummy

But so many empty calories.