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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodgers Trade Baez, Aybar for Atlanta's Betemit
2006-07-28 18:20
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

The Dodgers have a new third baseman in Atlanta's Wilson Betemit, whom they acquired tonight in exchange for misbegotten reliever Danys Baez and not-quite-their-style infielder Willy Aybar, plus an undisclosed amount of cash.

"He's one of the best young players in the league," Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said, according to the Sports Network. "He's here to play third base. He's a good hitter. He's someone we're going to have here for a while."

Betemit, who turned 26 today according to - Baseball Prospectus has a different birthdate - will apparently hold down the position until Andy LaRoche is ready - unless one of a million other possible things happens. Betemit has an OPS of .838 in 218 plate appearances for the Braves this season.

This is the kind of trade that illustrates an idea I've tried to get across here before - that some trades don't fall neatly into the buyer/seller dichotomy. It's an attempt to improve the Dodgers both for this year and for next year. Whether or not it does depends largely on whether the team has underestimated Aybar, but it's neither a surrender nor a move of desperation.

Brett Tomko was activated to replace Baez in the bullpen.

* * *

Odalis Perez arrived in Kansas City today. Wrote Ken Daley for

Perez looked like a man running for public office Friday afternoon, shaking hand after hand and grinning broadly at each new acquaintance he made.

"My first day here," he said, "and I already feel like I'm home."

Update: "Nomar Garciaparra, out of the lineup for the third straight game with a strained knee ligament, hit off a tee on Friday," Elizabeth Aguilar writes at "He should take the field again on Tuesday when the Dodgers open a series in Cincinnati. ... Jeff Kent's return to the lineup is expected within 10 days to two weeks."

Comments (650)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-28 18:26:19
1.   Uncle Miltie
Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Drew, RF
Saenz, 1B
Ethier, LF
Martin, C
Izturis, 3B
Martinez, 2B
Billingsley, P

No Aybar again!

This weather is terrible. I can't wait for school to start.

2006-07-28 18:28:56
2.   trainwreck
Well Billingsley should have a good game against the Nationals.
2006-07-28 18:30:08
3.   dzzrtRatt
This weather is terrible. I can't wait for school to start.

I'm 33 years past my high school graduation, but I remember what it was like to be in school. This would have been a highly unfamiliar pairing of thoughts.

2006-07-28 18:31:29
4.   JoeyP
I think Rob over at 6-4-2 should get some credit for lighting a fire under Mark Teahen.
2006-07-28 18:34:44
5.   Uncle Miltie
Armas is going to dominate this lineup. The Dodgers are giving him 3 free outs (not including the pitcher).

3- I'm talking about college. In the daytime it's about the same, but it's much cooler at night where I go to school (northern california).

2006-07-28 18:37:30
6.   mike20
Will there be a move tonight to facilitate Tomko's return?
2006-07-28 18:41:26
7.   JoeyP
Maybe the Dodgers are dealing Aybar? Josh just posted a standard press release on the blog, which might mean he's working on other things (maybe announcing a trade). Just speculating.
2006-07-28 18:41:34
8.   thinkblue0
two years in a row now we have management that for some odd reason refuses to put out the best lineup possible.

I'm gonna go back to slamming my head against the wall.

2006-07-28 18:43:40
9.   Robert Daeley
It's funny on the ESPN rumors central page, with Tejada and Soriano as the first two in the list -- both of whom have the Dodgers interested. Now wouldn't that be a hoot? ;)

I don't know why, but I thought Miggie was older than 30.

2006-07-28 18:46:03
10.   GoBears
Took me a while to realize I was talking to myself on the previous thread. I'll repost two of my three posts here, one because it's an actual question:

214. Anyone know anything about Shairon Martis, the 19 yr old RHP that the Giants traded away to get Stanton? Is Sabean up to his old tricks (i.e., is Martis a top prospect like so many before him)? Or was this just young junk for old junk? The other GM was Bowden, so it seems possible that Sabean didn't lose his shirt on this one...

216. Man, even the rumor mill is boring this year. It's not like anyone's ever held accountable for spreading garbage -- and yet there seems to be less of it than usual. Must be the nationwide heat wave. Everyone's too hot to generate misinformation.

2006-07-28 18:47:40
11.   Steve
It's Jim Bowden's world and we just live in it.
2006-07-28 18:53:51
12.   Sam DC
10: Info on Martis.
2006-07-28 18:55:52
13.   Sam DC
Ryan Zimmerman Watch
(long comment warning)

A few days ago, folks here were speculating about possible Rookies of the Year. I may have missed it, but it looked to me like no one mentioned Nationals' 3B Ryan Zimmerman (nb: that was true when I banged this out in the am; I see Josh R has since noted the possibility). With the Nationals in town, thought I'd write a little about what he's been doing this year. The team is obviously in the baseball hinterlands and that will only get hintier if Soriano is traded, so I don't expect him to actually win ROY, but his arrival has been a fantastic story here in DC. He's not up there yet with the great NL East third baseman -- Wright, Cabrera, Chipper -- but he's making a case to get into that conversation.

Zimm was the 4th overall pick in the 2005 amateur draft, drafted out of UVA. After just three months in the minors, he was called up straight from AA last September. He hit pretty well (OPS'd .988 over 58 ABs), vacuumed up every ball in sight, and cheerfully languished on the bench while Frank Robinson wheeled Vinny Castilla's decaying veteran corpse out to third base every night. It was not fan friendly. But it was impressive to see that Zimmerman could so readily make the jump.

In possibly his best move of the offseason (non-Soriano division), Bowden Frank-proofed the roster by trading Castilla to the Padres (and even got what seemed like a decent arm in return, though it turns out the Padres too were just passing off damaged goods). And so Zimmerman was named third baseman of the future. And to make the point even more clear, Bowden has basically refused even to carry a backup third baseman this year. Zimmerman's started 99 of the Nationals 102 games, with one of those misses for his grandmother's funeral.

And he's been a revelation. He's an amazingly strong fielder with soft hands, good range and killer instincts. Early in the season, he made a catch tracking a not-that-short and not-that-high fly ball into left that was just one of those "never gonna get there, never gonna get there, never gonna get there, OHMYGOD" moments (you can watch it here,, just scroll down to April 21). He's had some throwing yips, and built up some errors as a result, but he is a rock at third, and just ferocious charging slow balls.

At the plate, he is just a very cool customer. You'll see it when you watch him bat. He moves very steadily, watches very carefully. He has a great deal of confidence for a 21-year old kid. He's batting .291 (BA) / .356 (OBP) / .479 (SLG) for an .835 OPS. He has 68 RBI, 31 doubles, and 13 HRs. He sees 3.9 pitches per at bit (same as Lance Berkman and right between JD Drew at 3.91 and Andruw Jones at 3.89). And he has had some huge hits this year:

1. His first mlb home run came off Billy Wagner in the second game of the season -- it tied the game in the ninth inning.
2. On Father's Day, he hit a two-run walkoff homer to seal the series win against the Yankees (his first walkoff hit at any level of baseball)
3. On the Fourth of July, he hit athree-run walkoff homer off a 2-2 Joe Borowski pitch
4. Two days later, in the eleventh inning of a tied game, he hit a two-out walkoff single
5. On July 18, he doubled with two out in the top of the ninth of a tie game v. FL and came home to score the winning run (go Alex Escobar!)
6. Two nights, ago, he hit a one-out single to tie the Giants in the bottom of the ninth. (Austin Kearns would then win the game with a sac fly).

Scouting tip for Cesar and Bills: One of Zimmerman's regular tricks has been dropping bunt singles down third when the fielder is playing too deep. Here's Chris at Cap Punishment's description of one of these plays in the big RFK grand-reopening game last week: "Ryan Zimmerman, as you undoubtedly know, has shown an amazing ability to drop bunts down the third base line when the 3B is playing deep. To date, he has something like 9 or 10 bunt hits, and has only been thrown out once. In the 7th inning, while down a run, he led off the inning, and the camera zoomed tight, in MASN's version of Fox' nostril cam. And there you saw it. Zimmerman, while standing in his normal batting stance, peeked. Without shifting his head, he glanced all the way to the left, seeing if Ramirez was still deep. He was, and the first pitched found its way to the no-man's land between the pitcher and the hard-charging third baseman. Another hit."

As far as the whole Rookie of the Year thing, Zimmerman leads all NL rookies in hits, doubles, and RBIs; he's third in runs scored, fourth in OPS and BA. Others, esp. Uggla and Fielder have pretty great numbers too, and I just see now that Josh Johnson of FL has a pretty gaudy 2.60 ERA with 92Ks to 51 BBs, certainly have their cases to be made. And of course, there's a certain 3.5 making a case for himself. But Zimm definitely ought to be in the mix.

For anyone interested in a more human interesty look at Zimm -- here's a Wash Post profile that ran last winter. Zimmerman's mother has been wheelchair bound since he was a teen, and folks often credit his mature, collected aproach to things to having to cope with that.

So, hope this long ramble isn't too clunky here in Jon's comments. Can't say I'm really looking forward to the games this weekend -- My Nationals fandom has certainly taken hold enough that it's not fun rooting against them. Suppose some folks would feel like "Hey Great, no matter what my team wins." I end up more in the "Well, crumb, no matter what my team loses" camp. Is it just too cheezy to wish for good games and that no one gets hurt?

2006-07-28 18:58:50
14.   trainwreck
Martis throws in the mid 90s and can hit 97. Apparently he has a good curveball and changeup. He is young, but he has definite potential.

Sabean is an idiot.

2006-07-28 19:01:45
15.   blue22
Mike Gonzalez strikes out the side against the Giants for the save.

This guy would improve the team this year and going forward - the kind of guy Ned should go after.

2006-07-28 19:07:02
16.   Sam DC
Ross Gload (?) pinch hit grand slam in the ninth wins it for CWS over BALT.
2006-07-28 19:17:11
17.   Bluebleeder87
like I mentioned on the other thread, Sebeans Brain needs to be checked, amazing. (I hate the Gints, this is just based on principile)
2006-07-28 19:18:48
18.   bluetahoe
It's almost game time. Any word on Tomko and who he's replacing?
2006-07-28 19:20:16
19.   bluetahoe
David Bell traded to Milwaukee.
2006-07-28 19:20:41
20.   Bluebleeder87
I was watching midus/midas beeing interviewed & I swear I thought his wig was gonna fall off (he is beeing interviewed outside dodger stadium & it's windy)
2006-07-28 19:21:56
21.   Bluebleeder87
is it just me or is there something brewing in dodger land? (trade wise)
2006-07-28 19:22:32
22.   Bluebleeder87
Oops I meant midusa/midas/flanders. sorry folks
2006-07-28 19:23:02
23.   regfairfield
19 Source?
2006-07-28 19:23:12
24.   JoeyP
Gameday doesnt show Tomko.
I'm assuming they arent going to activate him tonight.
2006-07-28 19:24:05
25.   Suffering Bruin
1 This weather is terrible. I can't wait for school to start.

Phbbt! Say wha-?

No one is allowed to utter this phrase or any derivative or extension of said phrase on this or any other site, ever. I don't care if we're having weather that inspires Dante, the summer can't last long enough for me! :)

Now, with all due respect to the boys... let's win a dang game tonight, shall we?

2006-07-28 19:24:25
26.   bluetahoe
23. ESPN. Minor leaguer to Philly. Don't remember the name.
2006-07-28 19:24:39
27.   Sam DC
23 I heard the same report, and that it was for a prospect. MKE working hard to break down the traditional buyer seller divide.
2006-07-28 19:26:15
28.   JoeyP
Its in the AP story:

After the game, Philadelphia traded third baseman David Bell to the Milwaukee Brewers for minor league pitcher Wilfrido Laureano

2006-07-28 19:26:28
29.   regfairfield
26 If it's true, Bob Melvin just dropped about six notches in my mind.
2006-07-28 19:28:02
30.   StolenMonkey86
Is ESPN's rumor central blip thingie that worthwhile? It apparently says the Dodgers are interested in Tejada.

How many shortstops does Colletti want?

2006-07-28 19:28:17
31.   regfairfield
Okay, it's on Anyone want to try to figure out what Melvin is thinking?
2006-07-28 19:29:25
32.   Sam DC
Maybe he'll flip Bell to the Dodgers for Guzman.
2006-07-28 19:30:25
33.   Steve
It's Doug Melvin, but given that they are both retarded, it's an easy mistake to make.
2006-07-28 19:30:33
34.   JoeyP
Brewers obviously need David Bell's veteran presence to help their young infielders (Weeks, Fielder, Hardy, Hall)
2006-07-28 19:30:57
35.   oswald
i am really holding my breath this weekend with ned. i don't want him to give up on the kids, not even aybar. nobody's worth getting this year and the dodgers, sad, oh so sad, are not going anywhere this year.
2006-07-28 19:32:49
36.   regfairfield
Just goes to show that as long as you know to stockpile youth, it doesn't matter how bad your player evaluation skill is.
2006-07-28 19:33:35
37.   bluetahoe
I'd do Aybar, Izturis, Guzman, and Kuo for Tejada.
2006-07-28 19:34:51
38.   D4P
Fur-kel for Tejada. Straight up.
2006-07-28 19:37:37
39.   Sam DC
Free baseball at the metrodome.

We are missing Bob.

2006-07-28 19:38:08
40.   bluetahoe
Carlos Quentin just hit a pinch hit home run. His 4th already. It's amazing teams feel obligated to start junk like Gonzo and Green over a guy like Quentin.
2006-07-28 19:38:45
41.   bluetahoe
Betemit from Atlanta for Baez.
2006-07-28 19:38:55
42.   trainwreck
No not Aybar!!
2006-07-28 19:38:57
43.   Sam DC
Um anyone hear anything about Baez Aybar and cash for Betemit?
2006-07-28 19:39:03
44.   bluetahoe
Aybar included.
2006-07-28 19:39:22
45.   Bluebleeder87
they just annouced the trade peeps!!!!!
2006-07-28 19:39:32
46.   bluetahoe
Yep. I did.
2006-07-28 19:39:37
47.   trainwreck
Did Toby Hall and Russel Martin just celebrate Baez being traded? lol
2006-07-28 19:39:49
48.   the OZ
37 38 No, no, no. No shortstops are being sent to the Orioles. Tejada will be moved to left field to make room for Izturis, Martinez, and Furcal. And Nomar, when he's healthy again.
2006-07-28 19:39:54
49.   Bluebleeder87
2006-07-28 19:40:30
50.   Sam DC
Hmmmm . . . I'm afraid my Zimmerman manifesto is going to get lost in a sea of something.

Let's stay cool people, however you feel.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-28 19:40:47
51.   Bluebleeder87
I've never seen that kid play, any of you have? what type of player is he?
2006-07-28 19:40:55
52.   JoeyP
Betemit is like an Aybar clone, just older.
2006-07-28 19:41:59
53.   Steve
2006-07-28 19:43:47
54.   Steve
"Ned" "Flan" "Ders"

"Ned" "Flan" "Ders"

2006-07-28 19:43:49
55.   bluetahoe
So, we traded Jackson and Tiffany and Aybar


Wilson Betemit and Lance Carter.


2006-07-28 19:43:57
56.   Uncle Miltie
I'm a big fan of Aybar but for some reason I love this deal. Betemit can play 3B, SS, and 2B and he plays better defense than Aybar. Betemit has a bit of power too.

Don't let the door hit your butt on the way out Danys!

Job well done Ned!

2006-07-28 19:44:14
57.   JoeyP
Did Schuerholz learn anything from Dan Kolb?
Good trade Ned.

Successfully stymied the Cuban Missile Crisis.

2006-07-28 19:44:23
58.   D4P
Let me get this straight.

Jackson, Tiffany, and Aybar for Betemit and Carter.

Is that about right?

2006-07-28 19:44:44
59.   CeyHey
what would tomko be like if he could come in and let loose for one inning a night
2006-07-28 19:44:54
60.   the OZ
The question is, will the Dodgers be flipping Betemit for someone else... perhaps an older, more defensive-minded former Giant... Bruce Smith.

2006-07-28 19:45:54
61.   overkill94
52 Pretty true, although he has more power.

Was this really announced or are people just going on a rumor? Seems like it would be a bad idea for Atlanta considering Chipper came out of today's game with his lingering oblique injury. I suppose that's why Aybar was included.

2006-07-28 19:45:57
62.   regfairfield
From what I'm looking at right now, I like it. Betemit has made a good leap in power this year. He's not as patient as I'd like, but he's probably better than Aybar.
2006-07-28 19:46:04
63.   D4P
Betemit can play 3B, SS, and 2B and he plays better defense than Aybar

Career Rate2 at 3B:
Betemit: 88
Aybar: 88

2006-07-28 19:46:54
64.   confucius
This just means that David Bell will not be on the Dodgers! Thank you god.
2006-07-28 19:47:05
65.   Mark Linsey
Was this really announced or are people just going on a rumor?

Vin announced it and they showed footage of Baez saying goodbye to other members of the team.

2006-07-28 19:47:20
66.   Terry A
Hey, I give Colletti credit for attempting to erase an early mistake. Or, should I say, another early mistake. But whatever. At least he acknowledges that Baez didn't work out and had the guts to move on.
2006-07-28 19:47:30
67.   Steve
Blockade over! The only winning move is not to play! Return to DEFCON 1! Greetings, Professor Falken!
2006-07-28 19:47:36
68.   confucius
Rate2 is dead to me.
2006-07-28 19:47:48
69.   JoeyP
Betemit doesnt have more power than Aybar.

His MLB career is .280/.339/.389
His minor league career was .278/.339/.425

Betemit is 26 years old.

This is basically a deal to get Baez off the roster. The other players are interchangeable.

2006-07-28 19:48:55
70.   D4P
Meanwhile, Fur-kel has struck out.
2006-07-28 19:49:03
71.   bluetahoe
I guess our bullpen is set in stone....


2006-07-28 19:49:47
72.   regfairfield
69 He's 24 according to BP. He has a .206 isoP this year. And he's young enough for that to be a real improvement.
2006-07-28 19:49:52
73.   bluetahoe
Betemit is better than Aybar.
2006-07-28 19:50:15
74.   CeyHey
Vin is in love with Wilson already
2006-07-28 19:50:26
75.   JoeyP
Good move that eliminates the potential "offer Baez arbitration, have him accept, and be stuck paying 5 mils for a middle reliever next season".

I just hope the Dodgers play Betemit.
If he comes in and is just a bench guy, with Izzy still starting at 3b, its going to stink.

2006-07-28 19:50:30
76.   regfairfield
69 Plus it says his MLB career is .281/.340/.432. What are you looking at?
2006-07-28 19:51:04
77.   JoeyP
72 Baseballcube has Betemit at 26.
2006-07-28 19:52:31
78.   D4P
ESPN says that today is Betemit's 26th birthday.
2006-07-28 19:52:52
79.   The Anc
Does acquiring Wilson pave the way for a trade of Izturis?
2006-07-28 19:52:54
80.   bluetahoe
Betemit has 9 HR's in 199 AB's this season.

He IMMEDIATELY becomes our biggest home run threat....and I'm not joking. Sad.

2006-07-28 19:53:09
81.   overkill94
69 Actually, his MLB career is .281/.340/.432 and this year he has jumped to .281/.341/.497

He seems like one of those guys who always got hyped by his potential, was looked at as a disappointment, but then finally had something click (partially last year, fully this year). A lot like what happened to Brandon Phillips this year.

2006-07-28 19:53:12
82.   regfairfield
77 Interesting, anyone know for sure?
2006-07-28 19:54:51
83.   Bluebleeder87
Vin is in love with Wilson already

I'll pass judgement when I see him play.

2006-07-28 19:55:16
84.   overkill94
75 I'd assume he takes over everyday duties at either 2B or 3B with Kent out. Once Kent does finally come back I'd assume he'd keep his starting gig over Izturis, but then again you never know.

This is one trade where I'm truly excited. A lot of the others were pretty meh, but I feel like this one will help us now and in the future.

2006-07-28 19:55:21
85.   JoeyP
Betemit is better than Aybar right now, but its mainly bc he's a bit older.

He has had a huge jump in HRs this year though. He hardly hit any in the minors, just like Aybar.

2006-07-28 19:55:56
86.   confucius
7/28/80 according to
2006-07-28 19:55:57
87.   overkill94
82 Rotoworld also says 26
2006-07-28 19:57:13
88.   CeyHey
what is wilson's contract status
2006-07-28 19:57:32
89.   regfairfield
Was Betemit one of those guys who magically aged?
2006-07-28 19:57:52
90.   Uncle Miltie
Betemit lied about his age and is actually younger than originally reported. I think he's 25 years old.

69- Betemit has always had a ton of talent. He was the Braves top prospect for years and last year showed some flashes of why he was so highly regarded. Betemit could be one of the top offensive 2B in the league if that's how the Dodgers eventually decide how to use him. Like Aybar, Betemit has long quality at bats. We also have him under control for 4 years after this year!

2006-07-28 19:58:10
91.   JoeyP
Hopefully Betemit can play 2nd base full time eventually. He looks like he has a 2nd base bat.
2006-07-28 19:58:15
92.   overkill94
I've watched Betemit a bit since the Braves are on TBS fairly often and I have him on my NL-only fantasy team. He really does have a good power stroke, but along with that he strikes out a lot (57 K's in 199 AB). Having him in the line-up will be a pleasant sight compared to all the weak swings I've been seeing lately.
2006-07-28 19:58:40
93.   Bluebleeder87
I guess management didn't like Aybar all that much.
2006-07-28 19:59:06
94.   overkill94
88 I think he's about to enter his first year of arbitration
2006-07-28 19:59:49
95.   Bluebleeder87

my friend told me he was 21 1/2.

2006-07-28 20:00:39
96.   regfairfield
88 I think he's not arbitraton eligible until 2008.
2006-07-28 20:01:01
97.   D4P
I guess management didn't like Aybar all that much

For some reason, Aybar's errors were less forgivable than all of Fur-kel's.

2006-07-28 20:01:23
98.   regfairfield
Hey, Ryan Church is back.
2006-07-28 20:01:38
99.   confucius

Aybar 18/17 .770 OPS
Betemit 18/57 .839 OPS

2006-07-28 20:01:43
100.   Gen3Blue
74,83 Who is Wilson and when die we acquire him.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-28 20:01:45
101.   Jon Weisman
Baseball Prospectus: 11/2/81

2006-07-28 20:02:48
102.   Bluebleeder87
For some reason, Aybar's errors were less forgivable than all of Fur-kel's.

13,000,000.00 I guess that's why.

2006-07-28 20:03:02
103.   regfairfield
101 Yeah, that's where I'm looking. I think it's BP against the world in this case.
2006-07-28 20:03:47
104.   Vaudeville Villain
I've been a big Aybar backer, but I like this trade right now. We get rid of Baez and get a player who's basically a slightly older version of Aybar.

That's not a bad trade, and if I recall, Betemit's always been considered one of those great potential players.

I hope Aybar finds success in Atlanta. Baez, not so much.

2006-07-28 20:04:42
105.   confucius
99 in 2006.
2006-07-28 20:04:55
106.   JoeyP
BP is the only place that has him at that age.

Every other place has him born 7/28/80.

TBC, Braves home page, ESPN...

2006-07-28 20:05:24
107.   Gen3Blue
Aybar, I can accept being traded. Unless he was better all round than Iz, Furcal or Martinez, he was only going to get in the way of other prospects. I just hope we weren't taken, but Betemit feels OK.
2006-07-28 20:05:38
108.   Bluebleeder87
I wish the best for both, I kind of feel bad for Baez. good luck dudes!
2006-07-28 20:06:19
109.   Terry A
But how will this play in Plascke-oria?

Trading Baez really waves a white flag, right? O Ned, prepare for an unclever nickname.

2006-07-28 20:06:50
110.   Bluebleeder87
Bills walks are making an apperance already.
2006-07-28 20:07:14
111.   Terry A
2006-07-28 20:07:49
112.   confucius
Betemit will also give them some stability next year if Laroche and/or Guzman do not make a good transition. Betemit is a little more proven than Aybar.
2006-07-28 20:08:19
113.   Steve
Tremendous trade. This trade cannot be gainsaid. Exactly the kind of thing we want to buy. Huge possible returns and the downside is that you replaced what you traded away.

And it wasn't with Tampa Bay!

2006-07-28 20:09:37
114.   JoeyP
If they dont trade Izzy and Kent comes back, it'll be interesting who becomes the utility guy.

It better be Izzy.
Betemit must play!

2006-07-28 20:09:50
115.   CeyHey
It would be nice for Soriano to get traded soon so he can hug everyone and get on his way also
2006-07-28 20:10:03
116.   regfairfield
Yeah, I like this a lot the more I think about it. He adequately holds down the position until LaRoche is ready, then he can fulfill a bench role for cheap after that.
2006-07-28 20:11:04
117.   blue22
If Betemit can play short, and that allows LA to let all these banjo backups go then wow, good trade. Like it or not, it does not appear that Aybar would ever take the field at short in LA.

Oh yeah, Baez is gone. Nice.

2006-07-28 20:13:02
118.   Jon Weisman
wire story:

"He's one of the best young players in the league," Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said. "He's here to play third base. He's a good hitter. He's someone we're going to have here for a while."

Dodgers included cash in the deal.

2006-07-28 20:13:41
119.   Bluebleeder87
Ethier freaking rocks! (dinger)
2006-07-28 20:14:17
120.   Terry A
Izturis to Toronto, maybe?
2006-07-28 20:14:29
121.   Brendan
vin said betemit turned 26 today
2006-07-28 20:15:13
122.   adraymond
gotta love that 3.5
2006-07-28 20:15:16
123.   Gen3Blue
Speaking of trades. Ethier's looks like a good one for Coletta.
2006-07-28 20:15:18
124.   JoeyP
Sounds like Izzy is gone!
2006-07-28 20:15:27
125.   Bluebleeder87

at least is gonna play everday unlike poor Aybar.

2006-07-28 20:15:51
126.   Vaudeville Villain

I'd be willing to trade with Tampa. But only if we would trade for some of Tampa's hitters, not pitchers.

Trading for Tampa pitching is like going to the Dallas Mavericks, seeing that they have good young players like Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, etc. and saying, "You know who I'd like to get? Erick Dampier."

2006-07-28 20:16:36
127.   Bluebleeder87
what are the chances of Ethier winning the rook of year if he keeps this up?
2006-07-28 20:16:56
128.   Terry A
Well, Izturis could be moving to 2B.
2006-07-28 20:16:57
129.   regfairfield
126 How do you hit and run and knock one up the middle?
2006-07-28 20:17:03
130.   overkill94
It really does cloud the future of Laroche. Betemit is proven enough to deserve a starting job next year, but Laroche is close to being ready as well. A trade would seem to be the solution, but who is sent packing? Betemit? Kent? Laroche?

Betemit seems like he would be too big to play 2B, but he filled in for Marcus Giles while he was hurting.

2006-07-28 20:17:54
131.   overkill94
129 Because he hit it hard for once
2006-07-28 20:17:56
132.   StolenMonkey86

And a grounder up the middle from Izzy.

2006-07-28 20:17:57
133.   Giant Hater
Has anyone thought about Nomar playing 3rd? (when healthy of course) I know this young stud in AAA batting a mere .374 who would love another try at 1st.......
2006-07-28 20:18:18
134.   adraymond
After all the excitement surrounding Laroche, I would sure hate to him be the guy traded.
2006-07-28 20:18:24
135.   Vaudeville Villain

Why can't Betemit play 2nd? I mean, it's not like Kent is showing that he's got much left.

2006-07-28 20:18:56
136.   Bluebleeder87
our hitting finally woke up, sweet
2006-07-28 20:19:02
137.   overkill94
See, all it took was one trade and all of a sudden the team wakes up.
2006-07-28 20:19:13
138.   StolenMonkey86
I also just got season 1 of Animaniacs from Amazon.

This is a good night so far.

2006-07-28 20:19:38
139.   Fallout
Seems to be a trade to get a proven player to move Izturis. Aybar wasn't in the Dodger plans.
2006-07-28 20:20:03
140.   regfairfield
Can someone be a spark plug if they haven't arrived at the stadium yet?
2006-07-28 20:20:23
141.   overkill94
135 That's what I'm saying, does Kent get traded if Laroche is ready and they put Betemit at 2B?
2006-07-28 20:20:49
142.   Terry A
Cleansing the roster cures all ills.

(Kenny Lofton and Toby Hall eye each other warily...)

2006-07-28 20:21:15
143.   JoeyP
If Betemit is really thought of as long term and at 3rd base as Ned specifically says, maybe they are considering dealing LaRoche right now...
2006-07-28 20:21:42
144.   overkill94
The Padres still need a 3B right? I'll take that pitching prospect with the bum arm, Carrillo, for Izzy who has obviously proven he can be a major league third baseman.
2006-07-28 20:21:58
145.   Steve
It starts! We reject the old! We take off the shackles of devil rays that bind us! We remove mediocrity from our midst! We reject the foolish ways of our forefathers! We don't trade veterans to give up! we do it to win! We clear the festering sores that have oozed their way on to the roster and we assert our dominance now! NOW!

I'm pretty excited.

2006-07-28 20:22:35
146.   Suffering Bruin
So this is what a rally looks like...
2006-07-28 20:23:10
147.   trainwreck
We better not trade LaRoche unless we get Cabrera.
2006-07-28 20:24:26
148.   Suffering Bruin
And thus, the Danys Baez era comes to a close.
2006-07-28 20:24:57
149.   Sam DC
Free baseball in Houston. 7-7 v. AZ.
2006-07-28 20:25:08
150.   overkill94
147 Furcal and Laroche for Tejada, let's do it
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-28 20:25:18
151.   StolenMonkey86
Then I read that Danys Baez got traded in a deal that sent Betemit over while giving up Aybar.

Well, at least Tomko got a roster spot cleared.

I feel a little bad though, because the rest of my family is a bunch of Braves fans. I was just talking to my dad about how horrible Baez has been.

2006-07-28 20:25:24
152.   Giant Hater
AVG: .373
OBP: .421
SLUG: .539
HR: 8
RBI: 55

Why isn't Loney up here? What left has he to prove in AAA?

2006-07-28 20:25:29
153.   Vaudeville Villain

I don't think Ned is connecting the two thoughts. "Betemit is going to be here a long time," does not necessarily mean that "Betemit is going to be here a long time playing 3rd base."

2006-07-28 20:25:47
154.   Fallout
145 Steve

Sounds like we need to trade for Bactine.

2006-07-28 20:26:00
155.   Terry A
With everybody feeling so good tonight, I'll go out on a limb and predict that J.D. homers tonight as well.
2006-07-28 20:26:28
156.   Vaudeville Villain

Listen up Yoda, we don't buy that statistics stuff around here.

2006-07-28 20:26:38
157.   CanuckDodger
A few days ago, didn't somebody here quote Tony Jackson saying that the Dodgers have soured on Guzman AND LaRoche? We all knew that Guzman was in the doghouse, but everybody was surprised about LaRoche. This trade makes me uneasy if it means that LaRoche is on the trade block. In the long run, I think LaRoche will be better than Betemit.
2006-07-28 20:26:48
158.   Jon Weisman
Angels get six in the seventh in Boston.
2006-07-28 20:27:06
159.   Bluebleeder87
so Kent can be traded? I hope he leaves & we get somebody for him.
2006-07-28 20:27:53
160.   Gen3Blue
Its amazing how little it takes to put the old guys out for a long time like Kent and Nomar. Of course I should talk seeing how hard it gets to heal as you get older.
I don't think we could get what Laroche is worth until he's further from that injury.
Does anyone know more about how serious a small Labrum tear is long term?
2006-07-28 20:27:54
161.   Suffering Bruin
155 Now would be a great time for it.
2006-07-28 20:28:01
162.   underdog
I like this trade, like the rest of you. Though I feel a little bad for Aybar, because I liked him, but maybe he and Joan will find success in Atlanta and I wish them the best. But Betemit is great - I know the Yankees wanted him, too. And I prefer having Tomko in the bullpen (before he's even done anything there) over Baez.

I do wonder if this does lead to another trade - dunno for who or what, but I feel like they're not done. But hey, as this game shows so far, maybe they just needed to do something to wake up the current roster and get them to score some runs. (So far.)

And so far, I'm happy with this move today.

2006-07-28 20:28:54
163.   bluetahoe
There's Bob Timmerman's 3 run read.
2006-07-28 20:29:39
164.   overkill94
The best thing about the trade is that it keeps the DT faithful happy since we got a good return for a player we all knew was doomed if he were to stay in our organization.
2006-07-28 20:29:57
165.   Suffering Bruin
That was some terrific pitching by Armas there.
2006-07-28 20:30:17
166.   underdog
I also think Betemit could be thought of more long term for 2B, even if he's going to play 3rd right now. Still leaving the opening for LaRoche whenever he's ready. Because who knows what kind of game kent's still got left.

144 Noooo! No trades with Padres - we don't want even more ex Dodgers coming back to haunt us in San Diego.

2006-07-28 20:30:32
167.   bluetahoe
And JD's bullet back up the middle is snagged by Armas. (Sarcasm)
2006-07-28 20:30:56
168.   StolenMonkey86
hey, what do you guys think about the fact that today is Betemit's birthday?
2006-07-28 20:32:01
169.   Jon Weisman
I did an update at the top of this post, in case anyone's interested. What I find interesting about this trade is how it exemplifies my rather quixotic battle to get rid of this buyer/seller discussion at the deadline. This was simply a trade to improve the team - it was neither (or both) a buy and a sell. And on that level, I'm pleased.

I simply can't believe LaRoche is being unloaded unless it's for something really major.

2006-07-28 20:32:56
170.   adraymond

Does Betemit then block Dewitt, who will be ready in 2008-ish, I think.

2006-07-28 20:32:58
171.   JoeyP
The Padres were trying to trade Linebrink for Betemit.

I guess the Dodgers offer of Baez/Aybar was too good for the Braves to pass up.

This trade really makes little sense for the Braves. Aybar is younger, but his upside cant be that much greater than Betemit. And Baez is horrible. So its a trade that makes sense for the Dodgers, and makes little sense for the Braves.

2006-07-28 20:33:41
172.   Suffering Bruin
169 and others...

What is all of this about LaRoche being traded. Is there talk? An inquiring mind with his finger far away from the pulse of this team...

2006-07-28 20:34:22
173.   Jon Weisman
168 - Uh, it's nice?
2006-07-28 20:34:23
174.   Vaudeville Villain

What's there to sour on concerning Laroche? Aren't his numbers pretty good? I can understand Guzman, but Laroche?

That shows an astounding lack of evaluations skills, if true.

2006-07-28 20:34:34
175.   bluetahoe
Atta boy Russ!!!
2006-07-28 20:34:42
176.   Bluebleeder87
sit down Soriano (Martin catches him trying to steal)
2006-07-28 20:34:57
177.   regfairfield
171 Maybe Baez has a winning attitude.
2006-07-28 20:35:31
178.   JoeyP
LOL...Soriano just ran his team out of a big inning.
2006-07-28 20:36:01
179.   bluetahoe
Watching Billiingsley pitch reminds me of the times when Ishii pitched. That's a BAD thing.
2006-07-28 20:36:25
180.   Gen3Blue
As good as RM is, I doubt its a good strategy to walk everyone and have Martin throw them out.
2006-07-28 20:36:53
181.   Suffering Bruin
Chad averages, what, 18.3 runners per nine innings?
2006-07-28 20:36:57
182.   bluetahoe
Does Billingslay have a clue where he's throwing the baseball?
2006-07-28 20:36:57
183.   gpellamjr
169 Darn it, you beat me to it. I was just going to congratulate you (and the Dodgers) about that very things. Oh well, that's what I get for being late.

171 It seems that the Braves want any and all relievers, no matter how useless.

I've been a big fan of Aybar, but this is a good trade.

2006-07-28 20:37:09
184.   JoeyP
God bless Frank Robinson.

He keeps running even when the pitcher needs a map to find the K zone.

2006-07-28 20:37:25
185.   Gen3Blue
Joey P. I hope you are right :o)
2006-07-28 20:37:38
186.   Jon Weisman
172 - I don't think it's anything to worry about - it's just that people were wondering about the effect of Betemit being acquired to play third base - whether that could be longterm or not.
2006-07-28 20:37:48
187.   bluetahoe
Billingsley's god awful K/BB ratio suggests he not ready to be here.
2006-07-28 20:38:10
188.   natepurcell
i just got in from work and a round of golf! OMG! great trade! betemit is actually really good and is only 24/25. niiiceee.
2006-07-28 20:38:42
189.   Vaudeville Villain
The Braves have been watching too much Baseball Tonight. According to the ESPN "minds", Atlanta's biggest problem is that they lack a closer. This solves everything!

John Schuerholz has been making a lot of moves to suggest that his run of division titles was based more on a fortunate assemblage of great pitchers, bad teams in the division, and a solid farm system more than anything he's done.

2006-07-28 20:38:43
190.   Terry A
180 They're showcasing Martin!
2006-07-28 20:38:49
191.   regfairfield
179 At least Bills gets actual outs. Ishii would do something like, single, walk, line into double play, fly out to the warning track.
2006-07-28 20:38:51
192.   StolenMonkey86
173 - The scene in the Braves' clubhouse

Players gather to open presents.

Chipper: "Open mine!"

Betemit: "Hey, a watch! This is nice, thanks man!"

John Schuerholz: "Ooh, open mine!"

Betemit: "Sure. . . a nice card, 'good luck on your birthday, and a, plane ticket to Los Angeles?'"

2006-07-28 20:38:59
193.   natepurcell
Billingsley's god awful K/BB ratio suggests he not ready to be here.

Are we going anywhere this year? no, we are not. Let him pitch this year and he will be significantly better next year.

2006-07-28 20:39:41
194.   Suffering Bruin
Honeycutt's index finger will have arthritis if Bills ever pitches a nine inning game.
2006-07-28 20:39:59
195.   regfairfield
189 If you read his book, it's a good assumption to make.

188 After long deliberation, we determined he's 26.

2006-07-28 20:40:15
196.   bluetahoe
I really believed when Billingsley was called up he was going to be a jolt of lightning for us. Kind of like the Liriano kid in Minnesota.
2006-07-28 20:40:47
197.   StolenMonkey86
194 - But the Dodger medical staff will insist that he's fine.
2006-07-28 20:41:16
198.   JoeyP
Ishii's career K/9 was 6.94.
2006-07-28 20:41:37
199.   bluetahoe
193. Point taken. Though some people will argue that you don't want to "start their clock".
2006-07-28 20:41:54
200.   StolenMonkey86
that's a swing and a miss. Was that last pitch a curveball, because it was a lot lower
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-28 20:42:00
201.   Bluebleeder87
174 What's there to sour on concerning Laroche? Aren't his numbers pretty good? I can understand Guzman, but Laroche?

From what I heard the Dodgers have sawerd on LaRoche.(that's what I heard/read)

2006-07-28 20:42:07
202.   natepurcell
Honestly... when i was driving home from the course, i turned on the dodger game and i heard vin talking about how betemit and furcal are going to be on the dodgers for a long time due to how young both are and i immediatley thought we traded Laroche and Elbert for Betemit.

You guys dont know how happy I am when i found out what we actually traded.

2006-07-28 20:42:15
203.   Suffering Bruin
Grittle: "Son, do you have a fastball? I ask because I heard you had a fastball."

Billingsly: "Yes, sir, I throw the pitch known as the fastball."

Grittle: "Son, I'd like you to throw that pitch and see what happens."

2006-07-28 20:43:20
204.   StolenMonkey86
190 - must have read Tony Jackson's article. Maybe if he throws out baserunners he'll get on Sportscenter . . .
2006-07-28 20:43:21
205.   Suffering Bruin
186 Thanks for that.
2006-07-28 20:43:21
206.   Jon Weisman
187 - Do the Dodgers have 25 players "ready to be here?"
2006-07-28 20:44:31
207.   bluetahoe
So does anyone know if Tomko is available tonite? Is he in the pen?
2006-07-28 20:44:48
208.   willhite
Add me to the list of those who approve of the trade.

The day we got Baez I posted that we should spin him off to the Braves. It just took a lot longer than I had hoped.

It's already been said but I think it's worth repeating. Ned should get real points for fixing his mistakes. This is now two guys he has traded for this year that he has already moved on to other teams when it became obvious that they weren't a good fit. Not many GM's will work that quickly to correct mistakes.

2006-07-28 20:44:58
209.   underdog
196 I think that's why some people here are being hard on Billingsley, the expectations were incredibly unreasonable. He's young, he's got a world of talent, he's got great makeup. He has some control issues which are pretty natural for the beginning of a pitching career. He also, as Vin Scully just noted, when he gets ahead of batters he's dynamite. I'd go easy on him and have some faith that he's going to be a terrific pitcher.
2006-07-28 20:45:17
210.   bluetahoe
Ethier is human.
2006-07-28 20:45:35
211.   Suffering Bruin
Who is the former Dodger most similar to Olmedo Saenz? The Dodger who isn't much with the glove, doesn't run well but God help you if you have to pitch to him.

Joe Ferguson?

2006-07-28 20:45:49
212.   Sam DC
No really, guys, the Nationals did win 6 games in a row before this.

And Ryan Zimemerman really is good.

2006-07-28 20:45:50
213.   Jon Weisman
That whole "soured on LaRoche" thing arose from a second-hand comment by Tony Jackson. That's not enough to be credible.
2006-07-28 20:45:55
214.   StolenMonkey86
We're gonna be going to the bullpens for both teams here in this one. Armas has thrown 56 already before getting an out in the bottom of the 3rd, and Bills 68 through 3.
2006-07-28 20:46:19
215.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't dislike the trade, but isn't Betemit mostly a really good utility infielder? It's fine as far as it goes, (and I'm glad enough to be rid of Baez) but how much better is the team, now?
2006-07-28 20:46:36
216.   underdog
201 Where did you hear/read that?

208 Totally agree.

2006-07-28 20:46:55
217.   bluetahoe
209. His Dad told me the same thing 2 years ago. LOL...
2006-07-28 20:47:06
218.   Terry A
I liked Jackson's work when he first arrived, all fresh-faced and eager, from the hinterlands of Cincinnati (and before that, Arkansas!).

But his, ahem, work on the Choi story convinced me that Jackson is fully capable of getting an idea in his brain and then twisting the facts to fit. If Jackson has decided the Dodgers have soured on a prospect -- or even if Jackson himself dislikes the guy -- he will write it as fact.

2006-07-28 20:47:06
219.   Bluebleeder87
207 So does anyone know if Tomko is available tonite? Is he in the pen?

good question.

2006-07-28 20:47:17
220.   Paul Scott
I guess I am not seeing this trade with the same eyes as the rest of you. Betemit is older than Aybar, he rarely walks, Ks a ton and has little power - unless you want to believe his 220 PAs this year represent his true skill, in which case fine - he has good, but not great, power.

His defense, by any metric I see so far, is below average - certainly not better than the younger Aybar.

PECOTA projects him to peak over the next few years as a 2 win player. He is out of options and already in his arbitration years, so he'll be expensive on top of all that.

With the possible exception of power - and that based on an extremely small sample - Aybar looks better than Betemit is every way - other than he seems to have picked up Choi's problem of not having any confidence from (field) managment.

The trade is even worse when looked at in total - Aybar, Tiffany, Jackson and a lot of cash in exchange for Betemit (and Carter - though that piece counts as nothing), but of course Colletti's stupidity in the Baez deal was already a sunk cost.

2006-07-28 20:47:51
221.   underdog
Betemit was only a utility infielder because there was no room for him on the Braves to start (from what I've heard). He has starter capabality certainly. Long term with LA I'm not sure which position he fits into but for now we have a better 3Bman than we had, is all I can say. And a better fielder than Aybar. And good insurance for Kent.
2006-07-28 20:48:17
222.   natepurcell
Betemit is only 24 guys. he was YOUNGER then he what they thought he was.
2006-07-28 20:48:38
223.   adraymond
To throw another wrench in the Betemit age arugement. This quote from a March 10 2004 Baseball America story:

Yet the Braves insist they have not forgotten about Betemit, who missed out on playing winter ball when he strained ligaments in his thumb during instructional league.

"The number one thing to remember is youth is on his side," Braves farm director Dayton Moore said. "He will play the whole year at 22."

I guess that makes him 24, or 25, but not 26.

2006-07-28 20:48:45
224.   JoeyP
215. I'd the say the current team is better now if Betemit plays and Izturis is benched/traded.

For the future, who knows how much better Betemit will be than Aybar?

Just dumping Baez is addition by subtraction.

2006-07-28 20:49:06
225.   Bluebleeder87
No really, guys, the Nationals did win 6 games in a row before this.

we're starving for a win Sam sorry.

2006-07-28 20:49:16
226.   Steve
I don't dislike the trade, but isn't Betemit mostly a really good utility infielder?

But isn't that just self-fulfilling prophecy, since he's never been used as anything but a utility infielder?

2006-07-28 20:49:31
227.   Uncle Miltie
When I first heard that we traded for Betemit, my first thought was "please don't be for Broxton!"

You have to think that Izturis is going to be traded. It sounds like Betemit is going to play everyday and since I don't see Kent being traded, Izzy is the odd man out.

2006-07-28 20:49:45
228.   JoeyP
222. Someone should alert all other media outlets. I think he 'aged'.
2006-07-28 20:49:48
229.   Vaudeville Villain

The scene in Atlanta in a few days. The setting: Bases loaded in the ninth, one out, one run lead for the Braves. Bobby Cox has Danys Baez in. The Pitching coach to the mound.

Pitching Coach: "Okay, the scouting report says that this guy will fish for the slider away with two strikes."

Baez: "I don't throw a slider."

Pitching Coach: "Okay, how about a curve? A curve away in the dirt? Don't worry, Mccann can block it."

Baez: "I don't have a curve."

PC: "A Sinker?"

Baez: "Nope."

PC: "What then?"

Baez: "I have a fastball."

PC: "What else?"

Baez: "What do you mean?"

PC: "What else do you throw?"

Baez: "Well, I have this fastball. It's nice."

Pitching Coach's head explodes, Baez throws a fastball. End Scene.

2006-07-28 20:49:51
230.   Sam DC
Hey Andrew. Still clean?
2006-07-28 20:50:38
231.   overkill94
Grabowski principle
2006-07-28 20:50:48
232.   Uncle Miltie
Izzy has more power than Drew....
2006-07-28 20:50:53
233.   bearlurker
Actually, the Braves offered Betemit for Linebrink, and the Pads turned them down.
2006-07-28 20:50:58
234.   Gen3Blue
Izzy heats up!
2006-07-28 20:51:01
235.   the OZ
Ahhh, the Tyler Houston Effect strikes again!
2006-07-28 20:51:05
236.   trainwreck
Hell is freezing over.
2006-07-28 20:51:09
237.   regfairfield
222 Is there any source for this other than BP?
2006-07-28 20:51:10
238.   adraymond
That was weird. Izzy? HR?
2006-07-28 20:51:14
239.   bluetahoe

Add Izzy to the list of players with as many homers as Drew the past 2 months.

2006-07-28 20:51:15
240.   Bluebleeder87
WOW! Tonight is our night Izzy just hit it out.
2006-07-28 20:51:18
241.   xaphor
Izzy going down fighting!
2006-07-28 20:51:23
242.   Suffering Bruin
I hope there are scouts from other teams at this game.
2006-07-28 20:51:43
243.   JoeyP
2006-07-28 20:51:46
244.   underdog
hah hah! That's hilarious! Izturis is showcasing himself tonight, too!

Funny. And we'll take it.

2006-07-28 20:52:02
245.   Steve
233 -- Well, they're set at third with Mark Bellhorn, what do you expect!
2006-07-28 20:52:16
246.   natepurcell
Someone should alert all other media outlets. I think he 'aged'.

no, the current age at most media outlets is the age before "agegate".

He is 2 yrs younger. so he is 24. Aybar is what? 23? Honestly, Betemit is a good younger player, this was a tremendous trade. I cant believe we got anything for Baez.

2006-07-28 20:53:13
247.   JoeyP
He is 2 yrs younger.

But where is your info for this?

2006-07-28 20:53:16
248.   Bluebleeder87
did you guys hear Vinnie? He was arguing with him self what date it was the 28 or 29? pretty funny. I love you Vin.
2006-07-28 20:53:39
249.   Steve
113. Steve
Tremendous trade.

246. natepurcell
this was a tremendous trade.

In the words of Vic the Doug Melvin, I'm feelin you!

2006-07-28 20:53:55
250.   natepurcell


Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-07-28 20:54:33
251.   natepurcell

I havent got a chance to read through the comments yet haha so that was totally coincidence.

2006-07-28 20:54:34
252.   bearlurker
245--Yeah, what more could you ask for than Blum/Bellhorn tandem.
2006-07-28 20:54:53
253.   Sam DC
The Nationals chatters are drinking alot and going to bed.
2006-07-28 20:55:12
254.   NPB
Betemit is a good player. I don't know if he's better than Aybar or not, but he's certainly proven himself more thoroughly. The only reason he hasn't been a full time starter so far is because he's been blocked by Chipper Jones. I like Aybar, but we're not giving anything up here.

And if the Braves think they're going to the playoffs with a bullpen anchored by Baez and Bob Wickman, well, they've got another thing coming.

2006-07-28 20:55:19
255.   StolenMonkey86
229 - Roger McDowell is the Braves pitching coach. His head won't explode, he'll just light Baez' foot on fire.
2006-07-28 20:55:33
256.   JoeyP
That story is over 6 years old.
Why wouldnt the official Atlanta Braves site offer a correction?
2006-07-28 20:55:43
257.   Andrew Shimmin
230- As a whistle. Very much tempted this afternoon when I hit a Starbucks--it seems almost sacrilegious to drink coffee without lighting up. But I didn't. So. There you go. Day twelve.

226- The age thing is irritating, but, if he's 26, you wouldn't expect him to get a whole lot better. As is, he'd be a good enough starting 2B, a position which is full. A good SS, a position which is full. A sub-par 3B, a position which is available for a year this year, and maybe some of next. Unless LaRoche doesn't make it, or Kent gets hurt, he looks like he's going to keep on being a utility man.

2006-07-28 20:55:47
258.   underdog
Vin is "on" tonight. (And also "on" medication, possibly.) I love the digression about how Felipe Lopez's dad used to beat him (well, I didn't love the story itself...) which he couldn't wait to get back to telling between at bats. And then he said the exact same thing I did, when he said something about how the Dodgers offense is really on fire tonight or whatever, adding, "when was the last time I said that?" Love him!

And now... Charlie Steiner. Oh well, at least Steiner doesn't have to be as depressive tonight (to start).

2006-07-28 20:55:53
259.   Steve
He's 24! He's 24! Song, merriment and mirth for all!
2006-07-28 20:56:09
260.   Gen3Blue
I take it Tiffany and Jackson are doing well now, with people lamenting their trade.
How bad is it. I can take it.
2006-07-28 20:56:10
261.   D4P
Possible nicknames for Betemit:

1. Almonte

2006-07-28 20:56:17
262.   Jon Weisman
220 - Are you a fan of PECOTA? I'm still not convinced it's that useful - which doesn't mean it's not.

I do think Aybar was underappreciated by the Dodgers, though the recent slump didn't help. I'm not sure the difference between him and Betemit is significant, either way.

2006-07-28 20:57:02
263.   natepurcell

why r u asking so many questions, just go with me here!

2006-07-28 20:57:17
264.   JoeyP

Surely someone will ask Betemit what its like to be traded on his "birthday".

If he's like, "sorry, but today isnt really my birthday". Then I'll guess we'll know the truth.

2006-07-28 20:57:21
265.   Steve
Coffee is a huge no-no until your system is cleansed, at least, and possibly longer. Roughly three weeks.
2006-07-28 20:57:27
266.   underdog
I keep forgetting Ryan Church is from my hometown (Sta Barbara).
2006-07-28 20:57:34
267.   Jon Weisman
259 - Did today stop being his birthday?
2006-07-28 20:57:35
268.   trainwreck
I don't like this Betemit is our future talk, it is making me nervous.
2006-07-28 20:57:58
269.   overkill94
Wow, I didn't realize Betemit was a switch-hitter
2006-07-28 20:58:27
270.   Gen3Blue
Wow, Vin is rhapsodizing about Betemit's fielding!
2006-07-28 20:58:30
271.   Sam DC
257 You Rock! 12 days is hard to do. Great job!

I think Cesar hit the home run just to honor your achievement.

2006-07-28 20:58:47
272.   CeyHey
I don't htink I have ever heard Vin go on so much about a trade.

Nice highlight...does it count when Odalis is pitching

2006-07-28 20:58:57
273.   natepurcell
I don't like this Betemit is our future talk, it is making me nervous.

he can play 2b. hes our future there (or unless dewitt really breaks out).

Everyone needs to RELAX. We are so paranoid that we cant see a good trade when it happens.

2006-07-28 20:59:22
274.   regfairfield
267 I think that's the killer. I don't think everyone would be saying it's his birthday if it wasn't true.
2006-07-28 21:00:13
275.   JoeyP
267. It did if if he really wasnt born on 7/28/80, but was actually born on 11/2/81 like BP claims.
2006-07-28 21:00:54
276.   Suffering Bruin
257 Great job!
2006-07-28 21:01:20
277.   D4P
I don't like this Betemit is our future talk

I believe Be-te-mit is our future
Teach him well and let him lead the way

2006-07-28 21:01:39
278.   Sam DC
For those on gameday, it's not actually true that the Nationals have brought in Frodo Baggins to pitch.
2006-07-28 21:01:48
279.   FirstMohican
I'm surprised. I expected more people here to be skeptical of the trade. Guess I'm a little higher on Aybar (and his contract status) than I am on Betemit.

This may borderline on blasphemy, but it seems like Vin sure is doing his best to hype this deal.

2006-07-28 21:02:03
280.   StolenMonkey86
I didn't realize he had 9 homers, or was slugging .497.

I'm still shocked Atlanta would deal him. He aggrivated his left oblique, and I think it said he might miss the rest of the season.

If you wanna know what happens to Aybar, just turn to TBS.

2006-07-28 21:02:24
281.   Terry A
ATLANTA - Atlanta Braves Vice President and General Manager John Scheurholz announced today that the team acquired former All-Star Danys Baez and infielder Willy Aybar from the Los Angeles Dodgers.

"We believe these are the pieces of the puzzle that will enable our team to continue its 14-year streak of not finishing in last place," Scheurholz said. "Baez is nothing, really, but this Aybar kid has mad skills. Did you see that catch on Web Gems the other night? Dude!"

The Braves gave up 24-year-old reserve catcher Reggie Wayne Betemit, who had been working in concessions for the Braves' Single-A ballclub in Peachland, Ga.

2006-07-28 21:03:19
282.   Gen3Blue
2nd base--don't forget Estanislao Abrue( or somesuch) with a name I love, anything could happen.
2006-07-28 21:03:33
283.   natepurcell
Laroche is 3-3 tonight.
2006-07-28 21:03:36
284.   Suffering Bruin
278 Good thing I wasn't drinking anything for my laptop would be soaked. That was funny...
2006-07-28 21:03:55
285.   Paul Scott
Forgetting Baez, who given what is left of the season was not costing us much anyway - plus we gave "cash" so the savings can't be that great anyway, do you really think Aybar for Betemit makes good sense.

Even though BP is the ony place that reports it, they are a better source than all the others combined, so I'll accept Betemit at 24.

Aybar is just plain better from anything I can see.

Aybar already has one of the most important skills - taking a walk - that leads to consistancy and often to increases in power. He is a year younger. He is pulling down MLB minimum, has an option left, won't be arbitration eligble for another 2 years and won't be a FA until 2011.

Betemit is already in arbitration, becomes a FA after 2008, doesn't walk, Ks a lot, but might have a little power.

Add to that Aybar is already projecting better than Betemit by 1 win.

What are you seeing that I am not?

2006-07-28 21:04:00
286.   Steve
Meanwhile, Chad Billingsley just walked.
2006-07-28 21:04:06
287.   trainwreck
I will definitely take Dewitt over Betemit. I think Betemit is just another in a long line of overrated Braves prospects. He is solid, but nothing special.
2006-07-28 21:04:25
288.   Andrew Shimmin
265- Listen, I gave up the cancer sticks, I already don't drink the booze. But I'll give up coffee when it's wrung from my cold, dead liver. I'm not running for saint, here, buddy.
2006-07-28 21:04:28
289.   JoeyP
Thats cold!

But funny nonetheless.

2006-07-28 21:05:11
290.   Uncle Miltie
People here are underrating Betemit's defensive ability. He's a solid defender, no matter what rate2 says. He has better range and hands than Aybar, which will allow him to play 2B everyday. I really hope that the Betemit to 3B talk is just in the short term. Betemit is a potential all star if he plays 2B.
2006-07-28 21:05:19
291.   Sam DC
284 When I was ventilating about Ryan Zimmerman, you won't be surprised that I was happily reminiscing about Facts of Choi. Good times, not forgotten.
2006-07-28 21:05:20
292.   Steve
I don't think everyone would be saying it's his birthday if it wasn't true.

There were people saying what a huge haul Milwaukee got for Carlos Lee. People say all sorts of goofy things.

2006-07-28 21:05:26
293.   Bluebleeder87
261 *Possible nicknames for Betemit:

1. Almonte*

I love it, Almonte Betemit up to bat.

2006-07-28 21:05:47
294.   Bluebleeder87
where is Bob tonight?
2006-07-28 21:07:15
295.   Suffering Bruin
"One of the rarest games we've seen in a long time... a Dodger laugher."


2006-07-28 21:07:28
296.   Uncle Miltie
2006-07-28 21:07:34
297.   Jon Weisman
Howie Kendrick rendering Adam Kennedy more irrelevant by the second.

Who called J.D.'s homer?

2006-07-28 21:07:34
298.   overkill94
Terry A, didn't you call that one?
2006-07-28 21:07:37
299.   CeyHey
Who called the Drew shot?
2006-07-28 21:07:40
300.   bluetahoe
Kisses and makes up.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-07-28 21:08:00
301.   Suffering Bruin
I want all to know that I called it. It didn't take much as the pitcher was tossing BP but there it is...
2006-07-28 21:08:07
302.   Bluebleeder87
who cald the Drew DINGER!
2006-07-28 21:08:24
303.   StolenMonkey86
278 - But this guy wishes he had a ring that would make him invisible now
2006-07-28 21:08:25
304.   trainwreck
Thats for all the JD bashers!
2006-07-28 21:08:25
305.   Jon Weisman
Bob said he was being social this weekend.
2006-07-28 21:08:27
306.   Steve
This may be the worst pitcher that we have faced since Paul Abbott.
2006-07-28 21:08:28
307.   natepurcell

I think Betemit has a higher peak then Aybar, especially in the power department. And I think Betemit is closer to attaining that peak so he will help us sooner over the next 2-3 years when we are breaking in our own prospects.

2006-07-28 21:08:31
308.   regfairfield
Go J.D.
2006-07-28 21:08:36
309.   bluetahoe
Gosh golly. Only 6 games back.
2006-07-28 21:09:48
310.   bluetahoe
I don't know. Was that a Shawn Greenesque grand slam?
2006-07-28 21:09:50
311.   StolenMonkey86
JD with the grand slam. And did Billingsley score his first run?
2006-07-28 21:09:51
312.   Steve
Flip Izturis! Finish it! Finish what you started!
2006-07-28 21:09:53
313.   Terry A
2006-07-28 21:09:53
314.   Suffering Bruin
Terry A put it in print, true, but I silently said to myself, "Drew will get a grand slam." I think mine counts more.
2006-07-28 21:10:20
315.   Jon Weisman
Wow, Bob's even missing a Cycle Alert.
2006-07-28 21:10:28
316.   natepurcell

I agree. I like Betemit at 2b with Laroche at 3b. Hopefully we can trade Kent.

2006-07-28 21:10:49
317.   D4P
Some of Monte's splits:

Home: .333/.405/.547/.951 (75 ABs)
Away: .250/.301/.468/.768 (124 ABs)

2006-07-28 21:11:14
318.   JoeyP
Drew needed that grand slam.
Good job JD.
2006-07-28 21:11:20
319.   StolenMonkey86
Ethier is averaging 3.5 bases per hit tonight
2006-07-28 21:11:23
320.   Bluebleeder87

For that you win our admiration. :o)

2006-07-28 21:11:24
321.   Sam DC
303 LOL
2006-07-28 21:11:27
322.   Jon Weisman
306 - Can I make my Bud joke now?
2006-07-28 21:11:59
323.   Jon Weisman
Mr. S. Bruin - Why don't I try to drop off your book this weekend?
2006-07-28 21:12:06
324.   Scanman33
Get ready to read in tomorrow's fish wraps about how the trade invigorated the Dodgers and how it sent a sign to the team that the organization hasn't given up on the season, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
2006-07-28 21:12:32
325.   hedgemytickets
Don't want to put a damper on a joyous Dodger evening, but this trade further establishes Ned's habit of selling low and buying high.

All of the players he's gotten rid of were at or near their career lows (Baez, Perez, Navarro, Seo, Aybar, Bradley) and many of his gets were coming off of career highs (Hendrickson, Hamulack, Baez, Betemit, Seo, Lofton, Ethier.)

I am stilling waiting for that clever trade where we give up a guy on a 3 month tear for someone mired in a 2 month slump.

2006-07-28 21:12:42
326.   JoeyP
This guy's name is Roy Corcoran..I glanced and thought it ready Rory Cochran, the stoner from Dazed and Confused.

Their pitching skills are probably similar.

2006-07-28 21:12:53
327.   Paul Scott
People here are underrating Betemit's defensive ability. He's a solid defender, no matter what rate2 says.

Fine. I am not wed to Rate2, but you have to give me more than "'cause I say he is." What is your basis for declaring him "solid"?

2006-07-28 21:13:19
328.   Jon Weisman
319 - Great point!
2006-07-28 21:13:38
329.   Scanman33
Paul's alive! How's it going?
2006-07-28 21:13:58
330.   natepurcell

Atlantas homepark is a pretty nuetral park so the splits dont really concern me.

Honestly, how many chances to get a 24/25 yr old infielder whos best years are ahead of him? Aybar could be a solid player. Betemit has a chance to be an allstar do to his power increase.

2006-07-28 21:14:04
331.   Jon Weisman
325 - Less fun of a point, but valid.
2006-07-28 21:14:04
332.   Jon Weisman
325 - Less fun of a point, but valid.
2006-07-28 21:14:13
333.   Suffering Bruin
323 Sounds good to me. I'll e-mail you after I tuck the kid in.
2006-07-28 21:14:30
334.   Jon Weisman
Ooh, my trigger finger stuttered.
2006-07-28 21:14:41
335.   Gen3Blue
Damn, I should have called it. Perhaps the most worthless time in the last 15 games to really help the team.
Of course, I could well be wrong.If our bullpen isn't included in this revival, we may need every run.
2006-07-28 21:15:25
336.   Steve
Betemit is nowhere near his career highs in anything. The Braves don't even let him play.
2006-07-28 21:15:54
337.   Suffering Bruin
Uh, make comment 333 to refer to 332 rather than 323.
2006-07-28 21:15:59
338.   natepurcell
question, did Gourriel defect from Cuba?
2006-07-28 21:16:55
339.   StolenMonkey86
9 batters in the inning

Is Lasorda gonna wait until the 9th inning to get a Dodger Dog?

2006-07-28 21:17:16
340.   trainwreck
2006-07-28 21:17:19
341.   Steve
338 -- So they say.
2006-07-28 21:17:22
342.   JoeyP
These are games that help the Dodgers win the Pythagoreum Theorem NL West division title.
2006-07-28 21:17:59
343.   natepurcell
Spend the 3 million saved on Odalis and bid on Gourriel!!!
2006-07-28 21:18:02
344.   regfairfield
Probablistic Model of Range called has Betemit as the best defensive third baseman in baseball last year.
2006-07-28 21:18:29
345.   gpellamjr
339 If I were him, I'd declare this one to be in the refrigerator.
2006-07-28 21:18:31
346.   Paul Scott
Aybar could be a solid player. Betemit has a chance to be an allstar do to his power increase.

So Aybar, who walks, doesn't K, projects over a full win per year better, starts a year younger, is cheaper and under our control for 3 years longer than Betemit could be "solid," but Betemit - based solely on 9 HR in 220 PAs - could be an allstar?

I am not getting this.

2006-07-28 21:18:55
347.   JoeyP
Billingsley just walked the stoner pitcher.
2006-07-28 21:19:09
348.   underdog
I'm sorry, but this game won't be as exciting without Baez in the bullpen.
2006-07-28 21:19:22
349.   FirstMohican
Say at the beginnnig of the year, Ned decided that Aybar, Navarro, Duaner, EJack, & Tiffany (maybe I'm forgetting someone?) were all available. I'd much rather have 1 star in exchange for a bunch, rather than Carter, Hamulak, Betemit, Hendrickson etc.

Admittedly, you can't throw a group of guys together and demand an ace, but even with the trade for Ethier, Ned's aggregate transaction doesn't (yet) look too pretty.

2006-07-28 21:19:33
350.   Bluebleeder87

I read he did, what are you're thoughts on him? you think we'll make a run for him? (maybe not huh)

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-07-28 21:19:44
351.   CeyHey
how do you walk guys with a 10 run lead?!
2006-07-28 21:19:45
352.   StolenMonkey86
is Gameday pulling my leg? Frank is PHing for Sori?
2006-07-28 21:20:06
353.   Uncle Miltie
327- there are almost no defensive metrics that I trust. Betemit has all the good defensive tools: arm strength, range, good hands. Scouts love him. There isn't much more I can do to prove that Betemit is a good fielder.
2006-07-28 21:20:07
354.   JoeyP
Was SORIANO just traded?
2006-07-28 21:20:37
355.   Terry A
No speculation on Soriano coming out of the game?
2006-07-28 21:20:38
356.   regfairfield
Betemit also has a career .830 zone rating, which would be third in baseball this year.
2006-07-28 21:20:45
357.   Gen3Blue
I hope we didn't trade prospects for Soriano
Not that he's not good, but too costly.
2006-07-28 21:20:58
358.   tjshere
Going back a ways here but 54 literally had me roaring with laughter. Had to give credit where credit is due.

Oh, and put in me in the "like" column. Nice job, Ned.

2006-07-28 21:21:02
359.   CanuckDodger
Nate, Betemit is 26. His "official" birthdate used to be November 2, 1981, then it was discovered, during 2004, that he was born on July 28, 1980.
2006-07-28 21:21:12
360.   Terry A
Thirty rotten seconds...
2006-07-28 21:21:31
361.   D4P
Over the past 2 seasons, Betemit has struck out nearly 3 times as often as he has walked, and he has been slightly worse in that respect this year than last year. In that respect, he doesn't seem like the kinda hitter that folks around here would be too excited about.
2006-07-28 21:21:39
362.   Scanman33
To any poker fans, the biggest name eliminated today at the Main Event thus far is Dan Harrington.
2006-07-28 21:21:50
363.   StolenMonkey86
traded midgame?
2006-07-28 21:21:52
364.   regfairfield
357 If we did just trade for Soriano, could we put him in the game?
2006-07-28 21:22:06
365.   Uncle Miltie
question, did Gourriel defect from Cuba?
Yes, I posted in the other thread my plan.

Send Baez (too late) and Kent to Cuba
Sign Gourriel for 5 years $30 million.

2006-07-28 21:22:09
366.   underdog
What you may not be getting is what many baseball scouts say about Betemit, vs. what they say about Aybar. That's what I know, what they say. And a lot of them say Betemit has a much higher ceiling, is really good. I'm not sure what the relatively small sample size of stats on Aybar, and with Betemit coming off the bench because of the people ahead of him, I'm not sure what that would prove exactly? Just my opinion. I certainly don't think this trade suddenly makes us a scary team, either. Just a little better (along with some addition by subtraction.)
2006-07-28 21:22:47
367.   Gen3Blue
Betta-Mit is a better baseball name than Ham-you-lack in any case.
2006-07-28 21:23:25
368.   JoeyP
I think people like the trade think of it as "At least we got something that could be useful, for Danys Baez".

However, they also forget that Willy Aybar "could" be useful too. But he didnt play much either.

2006-07-28 21:23:57
369.   underdog
Meanwhile, Choo, who was traded from the M's to the Indians, hit his first home run tonight against Seattle. Koo-koo-ca-choo.
2006-07-28 21:23:58
370.   FirstMohican
Maybe Ethier and Billingsley will come out of the game too.
2006-07-28 21:24:52
371.   Jon Weisman
364 - I don't know if that question was serious, but no, we can't.

I sympathize with Paul Scott. Aybar's age and handiness with the strike zone were always attractive to me.

I wish I hadn't left my Fielding Bible at work, so that I could look up Betemit.

2006-07-28 21:25:08
372.   trainwreck
Kearns and Johnson out as well, so Frank is just sitting players in a blowout.
2006-07-28 21:26:06
373.   JoeyP
I'm not sure what the relatively small sample size of stats on Aybar, and with Betemit coming off the bench because of the people ahead of him,

They dont. But Aybar and Betemit have very similar minor league numbers, and Aybar is younger and cheaper for the next few seasons.

The key to this deal is jettisoning Baez, so Ned didnt take a chance on bringing him back for next year. Thats the big winner in all of this.

2006-07-28 21:26:26
374.   Sam DC
315 I thought you were talking about Ethier halfway there. Do others realize Luke Scott cycled for the Astros tonight (11 innings)?
2006-07-28 21:27:10
375.   Paul Scott
One upside - but it really shouldn't count - is that Little might play Betemit over Izturis or Martinez. He should have played Aybar over either of them, but didn't. So Betemit is a likely upgrade to the team we are likely to see on the field, at least.
2006-07-28 21:27:36
376.   Steve
We've got to turn the corner sometime. I have a hard time with this throw everything together thing. It doesn't work like that. Sunk costs are sunk costs, and the Devil Ray trades were bad trades. Horrible trades. We've got to right the ship. The Ethier and Betemit trades are built on the same principle. The guy you are bringing into the organization may make a tremendous difference. He may; he may not. But when you stack up the trades that work against the trades that don't, this is the kind of trade that has a tendency to work. And if Colletti keeps doing stuff like this, and less of the "buy Devil Rays just because I can" shtick, then we're going to have something here.

It's the philosophy. The philosophy here is sound.

2006-07-28 21:28:47
377.   underdog
Btw, I didn't realize this til tonight, that Betemit led NL rookies with a .305 batting average and .359 on-base percentage in 115 games last year.

I do think Aybar will be solid, but his defense has always worried me a bit (and I watched firsthand a game in which, ironically, Aybar's defense and Baez's pitching cost the Dodgers a game in San Francisco in a disastrous 9th inning). Maybe that game alone soured me on the both of them.

2006-07-28 21:29:10
378.   natepurcell
2006-07-28 21:29:49
379.   Jon Weisman
374 - I was, and I didn't.
2006-07-28 21:30:11
380.   trainwreck
Lofton was clearly out.
2006-07-28 21:30:20
381.   Uncle Miltie
376- If our GM continues to make trades for young players like Ethier and Betemit, then I'll consider growing a Ned mustache.
2006-07-28 21:30:31
382.   Ophi
Just to add fire to the Betemit age thing, he was signed early by the Braves.

(Here's an analysis from a Braves blog:

2006-07-28 21:30:44
383.   underdog
Btw, this just in: Betemit's birth certificate was just certified. He was born in 1991. D'oh, he's only 15!
2006-07-28 21:30:46
384.   StolenMonkey86
here's another thought: what if Betemit has a surge and becomes an all-star?

What if Aybar ends up capable of the same type of surge?

I think though, if both players have surging careers for different teams, then good for them.

And speaking of former Braves third base guys, Gameday is reminding me that Marte got promoted to the show in Cleveland.

2006-07-28 21:31:17
385.   Paul Scott
Jon - Betemit is even at 2B, -5 at SS, +7 at 3B - enhanced on all of those. Very little playing time at any of the possitions, however.
2006-07-28 21:31:17
386.   Marty
Somehow, someway we have to work in the phrase "Betemit sandwich"
2006-07-28 21:32:02
387.   Bluebleeder87
Dude save some runs for tomorrow.
2006-07-28 21:32:03
388.   Gen3Blue
As Vin says, should we allow Corchoran to save the Nats bull-pen.
And to build Vins picket fence, we need an error.
2006-07-28 21:32:10
389.   Jon Weisman
"Also, it's not Betemit's birthday. They're working by the old, false birth certificate. His true birthday is in November, and he's currently 24, not 26. I feel a certain amount of proprietary interest in this matter, because I'm the one who got Sean Forman to change the information on Baseball-Reference to the correct date."

2006-07-28 21:32:37
390.   trainwreck
What is that guy telling Grady?
2006-07-28 21:32:54
391.   blue22
386 - Or what about "Betemit biscuits"? (Say it fast)
2006-07-28 21:33:45
392.   StolenMonkey86
old friend Daryle Ward helps out
2006-07-28 21:33:49
393.   underdog
Boy, the Dodgers better hope none of their infielders get hurt tonight or they may have Toby Hall playing 3rd or something.
2006-07-28 21:34:48
394.   Terry A
Toby Hall didn't come here to be the backup third baseman. Toby Hall deserves more respect than that.
2006-07-28 21:34:59
395.   blue22
391 - for the Sir Mixalot fans in the house.
2006-07-28 21:35:07
396.   Jon Weisman
The commenters over there at that Braves blog seem to like the trade from their end.
2006-07-28 21:35:39
397.   CeyHey
How many times over his career do you think Vin has done the "Deuces Wild Chant"?
2006-07-28 21:35:49
398.   Steve
That Braves site is smoking some mighty good crack regarding Baez right now. Do you want to tell them, or should I?
2006-07-28 21:36:29
399.   StolenMonkey86
380 - was he? Does that make up for Martinez's phantom RBI from that other game?
2006-07-28 21:37:21
400.   Jon Weisman
398 - I don't like to be the uninvited buzzkill.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-07-28 21:37:36
401.   JoeyP
How would random Braves blogger Mark Thomason know when Wilson Betemit was born?

If Betemit was actually younger his agent would be getting the information proper disseminated to at least the Braves homepage.

2006-07-28 21:38:55
402.   StolenMonkey86
Grady is gonna let Chad's pitch count go to 110?
2006-07-28 21:39:40
403.   blue22
So who's back in "denial"?
2006-07-28 21:40:39
404.   Steve
403 -- I would call it a renewed hope for the future of the organization.
2006-07-28 21:40:47
405.   Uncle Miltie
From that Braves webpage in the comments section

Aybar: 43 games, .250, 12 doubles, 22 RBI, .356 OBP

Betemit: 88 games, .281, 16 doubles, 29 RBI, lower OBP.

in 45 more games, Betemit has 7 more RBI's, is older, slower, and plays worse defense."
Neither player has very good speed. He must have been watching Baseball Tonight a few days ago.

2006-07-28 21:40:53
406.   Terry A
I can confirm that Betemit's birthday is not today, because it's not listed among the "Today in History" entries.

NASA is 48 today.

Prince Charles & Lady Di were married on this date back in... wait for it... 1981.

And in 1976, the Son of Sam was terrorizing New York.

No Wilsons; no Betemits; no sandwiches; no biscuits.

2006-07-28 21:41:25
407.   Steve
Although what Billingsley is still doing out there is beyond me.
2006-07-28 21:42:22
408.   trainwreck
On one of the sports boards I always post as, everyone is calling us idiots for trading Baez. Eventually my fellow Dodger fan came to my side to explain how bad he was, but then he said we should trade a bunch of prospects for Soriano and that it is imperative that we get rid of Furcal so Izzy can be our SS.
2006-07-28 21:42:28
409.   OaklandAs
I agree that Betemit is 24, not 26. Defensively, he wasn't good enough at SS for the Braves to make him a regular - that prompted the trade for Renteria. But he's good enough at 3B and maybe 2B, but hasn't played much there. Offensively, he might be slightly better than Aybar, but the main advantage is that the Dodgers seem willing to play Betemit, while they didn't want to play Aybar.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an infield of Kent, Betemit, Furcal, and LaRoche next year, with Izturis as the backup/insurance policy guy.

2006-07-28 21:42:36
410.   dzzrtRatt
Sorry to jump in 300 posts since my last comment, but what about Jeff Kent. says Izturis will play second now that they have Betamit. And Kent will play...? Do they think his injury is season-ending? I know it's become reflexive to slag him around here, but when he's healthy he's still a dangerous hitter and a good enough fielder to where Izzy is clearly second choice. Does Izzy have pictures of McCourt on Hollywood Blvd. or something?
2006-07-28 21:42:43
411.   regfairfield
405 He missed the fact that he's slugging 85 points higher.
2006-07-28 21:43:07
412.   StolenMonkey86
you do realize that if Betemit strikes out a lot in LA, we'll be writing JAKFWB?
2006-07-28 21:43:17
413.   trainwreck
*post at
2006-07-28 21:43:24
414.   Suffering Bruin
For the record, Baseball Reference has Betemit's birthday as 11/1/81.

I love it when players are born after I graduated from high school, really I do.

2006-07-28 21:43:29
415.   underdog
Braves fans have a blog?

This has got to be Chad's last batter...

2006-07-28 21:44:39
416.   Steve
On one of the sports boards I always post as, everyone is calling us idiots for trading Baez.

Why do you subject yourself to the whims of the unintelligent?

2006-07-28 21:44:43
417.   trainwreck
I wouldn't be surprised if Kent demanded a trade.
2006-07-28 21:44:47
418.   scooplew
A long time. I was a little kid in Brooklyn. I remember my dad saying something like "Deuces are Wild in Flatbush" with two on, two out and the count two-and-two.
2006-07-28 21:44:58
419.   underdog
410 I was under the assumption that such talk is referring to the immediate future. (And assuming Izturis doesn't get traded.) Kent is not suppoed to be out for the season, but they're playing it cautious with him this time.
2006-07-28 21:45:32
420.   JoeyP
Aybar is listed at 5'11 200#
Betemit is listed at 6'3 200#

If Betemit plays 2nd base, will that make him the tallest 2nd basemen in baseball?

2006-07-28 21:45:56
421.   trainwreck
Baseball is not the strong suit of this board. I am the Nate Purcell there when it comes to prospects lol.
2006-07-28 21:45:58
422.   Jon Weisman
410 - I don't take the Izturis comment as anything permanent. Izturis would play second base until he is traded or until Kent returns, that's all.

Oblique injuries this year have seemed to require 3-4 weeks.

2006-07-28 21:46:46
423.   dzzrtRatt
I understand the excitement about Baez. Why, my goodness, did you know he saved 40 games last season?

Where Baez belongs is back in the AL East. His numbers in Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park, whereeveritis that the Blue Jays play and Tropicana are tremendous. Not so much anywhere else.

2006-07-28 21:46:49
424.   StolenMonkey86
417 - You sure you don't mean Nomar? Wouldn't he be upset that he'll have fewer oppurtunities to be a hero in the bottom of the 9th?
2006-07-28 21:47:08
425.   blue22
Defensively, he wasn't good enough at SS for the Braves to make him a regular

I appreciate the information, but as long as he's good enough to displace whoever is the token banjo backup shortstop next year while also backing up LaRoche and Kent, that's good enough for me.

404 - In retrospect, that's what I meant.

2006-07-28 21:47:19
426.   Jon Weisman
111 pitches for Chad - I think that's tolerable.
2006-07-28 21:47:51
427.   scooplew
Our long national nightmare is almost over.
2006-07-28 21:48:42
428.   JoeyP
If the Dodgers arent going to let JtD play SS due to his size, I doubt they let Betemit play 2nd base.
2006-07-28 21:49:45
429.   trainwreck
Someone better tell Vin Betemit's real age.
2006-07-28 21:50:52
430.   Uncle Miltie
417- I'm praying
2006-07-28 21:51:07
431.   natepurcell

Someone should inform Josh over at the dodgers blog that they should clear up the age issue with Betemit.

2006-07-28 21:51:22
432.   JoeyP
Only Betemit knows.
2006-07-28 21:52:21
433.   Gen3Blue
Most closers are streaky and have to move from town to town, like Benitez. There are very few Gagnes.
2006-07-28 21:53:17
434.   Bluebleeder87
so he's 26 or 24? I'm confused??
2006-07-28 21:53:29
435.   StolenMonkey86
420 - Does Colletti think we're a basketball team or something?

Martin: 5'10"
Navarro: 5'9"

Seo: 6'0"

Bradley: 6'0"
Ethier: 6'1"

Duaner Sanchez is 6'2", but Ned corrected that by trading off Seo.

2006-07-28 21:54:12
436.   natepurcell
Why hasn't Repko been playing?
2006-07-28 21:55:05
437.   OaklandAs
The Braves thought they signed Betemit when he was 16. But it turns out that he was only 14 - because of this, the Braves were fined and banned from signing players from the Domincan for a year. There was talk of MLB declaring Betemit a free agent because of the Braves' mistake, but it didn't happen. And that makes Betemit 24 instead of 26 now.
2006-07-28 21:55:15
438.   StolenMonkey86
That doesn't explain changing positions for Joel Guzman, but that's overridden by his preference for older players, I guess
2006-07-28 21:55:20
439.   Bluebleeder87

I thought I heard Vin say he was still hurt?

2006-07-28 21:55:22
440.   Andrew Shimmin
I like it that both sides are vehemently insisting that their side got the better defensive player. Also, is Wilber speedy? What makes them think he is?
2006-07-28 21:55:22
441.   blue22
435 - Isn't "height" one of the five tools?
2006-07-28 21:55:28
442.   gpellamjr
434 ???
2006-07-28 21:55:53
443.   underdog
Repko sighting! And.. that was quick.

Btw, I'm about to sign off to do some writing, but wanted to say... is there any way the Dodgers can bank any additional runs for future use (with possibly some interest earned)? I do worry they're going to blow their uh... um, go dry again.

Anyway, enjoyed it for now! Night.

2006-07-28 21:56:19
444.   Terry A
Height is the next Moneyball "undervalued" attribute.

Send us your tall middle infielders, your short first basemen, your power-forward-size junkballing starting pitchers, your broken-down, spindly, diminutive centerfielders yearning to be waived...

2006-07-28 21:56:31
445.   natepurcell
Also, is Wilber speedy? What makes them think he is?

Willy Aybar is insanely slow.

2006-07-28 21:56:32
446.   Jon Weisman
437 - So it was like a Beltre.

440 - I wonder if we can convince another team that Izturis and Oscar Robles are fleet of foot.

2006-07-28 21:57:19
447.   StolenMonkey86
Furcal didn't want Repko to feel bad about the K, so he decided he do the same thing.

Come on, just because the pitcher is named Rivera . . .

2006-07-28 21:57:26
448.   Jon Weisman
443 - Go take a look at how many runs the Dodgers scored the day before Terry Forster allowed the Joe Morgan HR in '82.
2006-07-28 21:57:33
449.   Bluebleeder87
so He's 24?
2006-07-28 21:58:20
450.   trainwreck
I forgot we still had Robles.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-07-28 21:58:39
451.   JoeyP
Interesting how when the Beltre thing broke, immediately fixed his birthday.

With Betemit's they havent....

2006-07-28 21:58:47
452.   Uncle Miltie
Willy Aybar is insanely slow.
LOL, I wouldn't go that far. He bulked up in the offseason and now has below average speed. From what I've seen from Betemit, he's slower than Wilber, but neither is a burner.
2006-07-28 21:59:06
453.   Steve
436 -- Grittle hinted strongly during the roundtable that Repko is not up to Kenny Speed yet.
2006-07-28 21:59:26
454.   StolenMonkey86
I'd like to hear Grady explain the five tools using similies to compare them to each of the following:


2006-07-28 21:59:57
455.   Bluebleeder87
the ump needs glasses!!
2006-07-28 22:00:15
456.   Uncle Miltie
I saw that bounce before the replay. These umpires are blind.
2006-07-28 22:00:37
457.   Jon Weisman
One of Repko's five tools is the trap.
2006-07-28 22:00:48
458.   Gen3Blue
Now thats scrappy. And a trap. But I hope no injury.
2006-07-28 22:01:01
459.   natepurcell
With Betemit's they havent....

And we still haven't landed on the moon.

2006-07-28 22:01:03
460.   Terry A
I really like some of the first names on the Nationals.

Rivera? He's a Saul.

Castro? A Bernie.

You don't see a lot of Sauls and Bernies these days.

2006-07-28 22:01:14
461.   Steve
456 -- I saw that Izturis was safe the other night from the right field bleachers.
2006-07-28 22:01:25
462.   trainwreck
The umps just want this game to be over with.
2006-07-28 22:01:30
463.   Brendan
I read in the Times or OC Register(yesterday) that the Dodgers wanted to place Baez on the DL in order to activate Tomko. Baez told them no he didn't need two weeks for his injury. Then he said "If they want to make room on the roster, trade somebody" I bet Ned got on the phone to Atlanta right away.
2006-07-28 22:02:01
464.   StolenMonkey86
right field. JD's back, so time to go back to resting him

nice of Schneider to get Repko into the game

2006-07-28 22:02:19
465.   gpellamjr
456 I think it's just the 1B ump. I can think of two he's screwed up tonight, but none by the others.
2006-07-28 22:02:37
466.   thinkblue0
this trade is really interesting because someone between Kent and Izzy is the odd man out.

I have a gut feeling Izzy is going to be packing his bags in a day or two.

2006-07-28 22:02:56
467.   lakerican
I'm from Puerto Rico and here I has more chance seeing the Braves thru TBS than the Dodgers games(mostly ESPN with Joe Morgan, uff). I had seen Betemit 20 - 25 games and Aybar 10 to 12 times. My take; Betemit is better than Aybar; is quicker, better hands, more arm, more confidence fielding and more Power... He sometimes looks like Beltre.
2006-07-28 22:03:43
468.   StolenMonkey86
So each outfielder got to catch a ball. Nobody feels left out.


Let's play pin the tail on the donkey.

2006-07-28 22:05:23
469.   Suffering Bruin
This may be old ground but Harold Reynolds is no longer at ESPN. From the story on the link below, I think he got fired.

2006-07-28 22:05:54
470.   natepurcell

both are the odd men out by next year.

2006-07-28 22:06:12
471.   StolenMonkey86
did Saul Rivera throw faster than Kenny speed?
2006-07-28 22:06:49
472.   natepurcell
lol they just corrected Vin on Betemits age. Good job Josh.
2006-07-28 22:06:54
473.   Andrew Shimmin
Uh-oh. Vin's come half way over to the revised age, but he's holding on to the today's-his-birthday line.
2006-07-28 22:07:18
474.   Jon Weisman
469 - If Bob were here tonight, you would have broken his heart. That was big business on the Griddle this week.
2006-07-28 22:07:53
475.   CanuckDodger
437 -- Betemit is 26. The Braves were "found" to have signed Betemit too young on the basis of FALSE information, before the post 9/11 crackdown on foreign birth certificates. In 2004, the Novemeber 1981 birthdate was legitimately found to be wrong.
2006-07-28 22:09:32
476.   Suffering Bruin
474 Ouch.

I've been off the blogs for a few days. I remember linking to a YouTube with and old video game recreating the sixth game of the '86 series like it was news or something.

Bob had it six months ago.

2006-07-28 22:10:19
477.   natepurcell

You are making things confusing.

2006-07-28 22:10:41
478.   gpellamjr
Saenz to the DL, up comes Loney!
2006-07-28 22:10:49
479.   StolenMonkey86
PH for Tomko, or let him bat so you can go home? After all, he only threw 8 pitches
2006-07-28 22:10:52
480.   Andrew Shimmin
How's Betemit's defense at 1B?
2006-07-28 22:11:14
481.   OaklandAs
The last sentence of this CNN article mentions the age issue with Betemit:

2006-07-28 22:12:23
482.   Bluebleeder87
darn it that was a fat juicy one that Ledee let go by.
2006-07-28 22:12:48
483.   gpellamjr
475 Don't confuse things. We all like Nate and would love to trust him. He says the kid's 24 and he's serial!
2006-07-28 22:13:53
484.   Jon Weisman

"Nomar Garciaparra, out of the lineup for the third straight game with a strained knee ligament, hit off a tee on Friday. He should take the field again on Tuesday when the Dodgers open a series in Cincinnati. ... Jeff Kent's return to the lineup is expected within 10 days to two weeks"

2006-07-28 22:14:27
485.   trainwreck
Hes super serial!
2006-07-28 22:14:39
486.   Brendan
Following up on my 463The Baez quote was in yesterday's Times. I found it.

*Little expected that either first baseman Nomar Garciaparra or reliever Danys Baez would be put on the disabled list. However, Garciaparra's treatment for a minor knee injury is going well and Baez balked at any suggestion that his flu-like symptoms were a reason to sit out 15 days.

Baez left Tuesday's game in the ninth inning because he felt dizzy and has been fighting illness since the All-Star break. But, he said, "I'm not going to be on the DL. For what? A roster opening? They can trade somebody."

2006-07-28 22:15:30
487.   gpellamjr
484 I wish they would just DL somebody. I so want to see that little leg kick Loney does whenever he catches a ball at 1st.
2006-07-28 22:15:42
488.   Steve
Baez balked at any suggestion that his flu-like symptoms were a reason to sit out 15 days.

Bird flu.

2006-07-28 22:16:59
489.   dsfan
Funny, when I brought up aquiring Betemit for Baez and Izzy earlier today, seemed Betemit wasn't nearly as popular as he is now.
2006-07-28 22:18:31
490.   StolenMonkey86
Or is it the bullpen bug?
2006-07-28 22:19:04
491.   dsfan
Regarding the defensive abilities of Aybar and Betemit:

One point in Betemit's favor is that he initially was projected a SS and played a fair amount there in the minors.

Willy was never thought that athletic.

2006-07-28 22:19:37
492.   gpellamjr
489 I guess everyone here just loves everything Ned does.
2006-07-28 22:19:57
493.   OaklandAs
I agree that it is suspicious that MLB still has Betemit as 26. Here is an article from 2000 where John Schuerholz discusses the Braves' penalty for signing Betemit early.

2006-07-28 22:20:30
494.   Steve
Funny, when I brought up aquiring Betemit for Baez and Izzy earlier today, seemed Betemit wasn't nearly as popular as he is now.

Oh, to be a prophet ahead of one's time.

2006-07-28 22:20:34
495.   StolenMonkey86
It's a situation where what's happened in the bullpen is a contagious thing. He caught the bullpen virus or whatever you want to call it.

- Grady Little

From Dodger Blues, because I don't remember where he actually said that

2006-07-28 22:21:08
496.   natepurcell
Funny, when I brought up aquiring Betemit for Baez and Izzy earlier today, seemed Betemit wasn't nearly as popular as he is now

I wasn't around earlier today.

2006-07-28 22:21:20
497.   Brendan
Baez should have been more specific.

"I'm not going to be on the DL. For what? A roster opening? They can trade Izzy"

2006-07-28 22:21:20
498.   DaveP
This quote from Coletti makes me think LaRoche isn't necessarily blocked by Betemit:
"We're bringing him in here at this point in time to play third base. He's versatile. He can play third, short, second, he's a good hitter, he's young and somebody we'll have around for a while."

2006-07-28 22:22:43
499.   dsfan
I consider Betemit a better athlete, more versatile than Aybar, but the biggest thing in his favor is the power dimension, which sets up an increase in OBP and helps offset the lack of speed.

Much easier to envision Betemit hitting 20 HRs and 35-40 doubles in a season. I've followed Aybar closely, like him, but don't see him reaching those numbers.

2006-07-28 22:22:52
500.   Andrew Shimmin
Would anybody be less happy if the deal had been Izzy and Baez for Betemit?
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-07-28 22:22:57
501.   Steve
496 -- Betemit came up during the roundtable. Betemit is old news.
2006-07-28 22:23:53
502.   popup
I would rather see Betemit at second. To me Kent is a question mark. Wrist injury last year and he has not been in the line-up that much this year. Given his age, he might not be all that productive in the future. I would like to see if Betemit can be a viable replacement for Kent if need be. If I was running things I would let Izturis and Martinez fill in at third, with LaRoche getting most of the playing time in a September call up.

I am sorry to see Aybar go. He was the one player I saw last year play for Vegas that looked good to me. I don't see a position for him with the Braves. For his sake I hope he is traded from the Braves to a team who will give him a chance to play.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-07-28 22:23:59
503.   natepurcell

Of course. Betemit has very good athleticism for his size. I would not be suprised if 2b was his long term destination for us.

2006-07-28 22:24:25
504.   Steve
500 - No. But there's an argument to be made that in what passes for Major League Baseball, they're more valuable separately than together.
2006-07-28 22:24:30
505.   Uncle Miltie
489- when did you say this? On the Dodger Talk when Ned, Little and McCourt were answering questions, a female caller suggested that we trade for Betemit. I thought it was a great idea. Steve also liked the idea. That's the only Betemit talk I've seen on here, but I wasn't around from most of the day.
2006-07-28 22:25:10
506.   Jon Weisman
I think we should debate my birthdate instead. That could really change my career outlook.
2006-07-28 22:25:11
507.   gpellamjr
The thing I love about the trade is that we still have a guy I can call "Willy". My favorite thing about Aybar was his name, but we certainly didn't lose anything there.
2006-07-28 22:25:11
508.   natepurcell

So you like the trade Dsfan? You have Dewans fielding bible handy with you right now? If so, can you tell us what he says on Betemit.

2006-07-28 22:25:54
509.   bluetahoe
Gio showing off his athleticism with the unassisted putout. LOL.
2006-07-28 22:26:02
510.   DaveP
From an old CNNSI article:

Other controversies involving Dominican players include Rafael Furcal, signed last year by the Braves as a 19-year-old when he was really 22, and Wilson Betemit, signed in 1996 when he was 14.

2006-07-28 22:26:26
511.   Bluebleeder87
so who is gonna pitch the 9th Carrara again? why not.
2006-07-28 22:26:51
512.   Jon Weisman
508 -

385. Paul Scott
Jon - Betemit is even at 2B, -5 at SS, +7 at 3B - enhanced on all of those. Very little playing time at any of the possitions, however.

2006-07-28 22:26:54
513.   dsfan
Colletti improved the present and the future with this trade.

Betemit's best position is 3B. He isn't as good of a fielder there as Izzy, but he's pretty good. He upgrades the offense and in turn the bench, because Martinez will stay there.

Further, Izzy goes to second, where I expect him to return tremendous defensive value, much to the delight of Lowe and several other challenged pitchers.

Betemit's chances of being a solid or better regular exceed those of Aybar's.

No concern here at all over blocking LaRoche, alhtough Betemit is a forced fit at 2B. So many times, people say, "We can stick (whoever) at second base."

2006-07-28 22:26:58
514.   trainwreck
Jayson Stark mentioned we were in talks to get Betemit for Baez and that made me really happy. Then he said those talks were dead, ESPN you've done it again!
2006-07-28 22:26:59
515.   StolenMonkey86
500 - I would have been more confused
2006-07-28 22:27:34
516.   bluetahoe
All I wanted for my birthday was a Dodger win. My birthday was July 22.
2006-07-28 22:27:36
517.   trainwreck
Sucks for that guy to eat it in front of everyone and on tv.
2006-07-28 22:28:37
518.   Uncle Miltie
499- I see Wilber as a Bill Mueller type. I think his defense is going to improve at 3B. Wilber has the potential to be a 15 HR 30+ 2B .300 BA .400 OBP type of player. Betemit may hit 25 HR a year in his prime years.
2006-07-28 22:29:12
519.   natepurcell
No concern here at all over blocking LaRoche, alhtough Betemit is a forced fit at 2B. So many times, people say, "We can stick (whoever) at second base."

I think Betemit can handle it. He hasnt played there much but send him to winter ball to learn. He has the athleticism to play 2b.

2006-07-28 22:29:31
520.   Bluebleeder87
Repko looks like he went back to being pull happy.
2006-07-28 22:30:31
521.   Daniel Zappala
I think it's funny that for all the hype about the trading deadline most deals seem to be for 4+ ERA relief pitchers. Wickman, Cordero, and now Baez.
2006-07-28 22:31:30
522.   gpellamjr
520 When did he stop? I seem to remember every hit being a sharp liner or ground ball between SS and 3B before his injury.
2006-07-28 22:32:08
523.   trainwreck
When mentioning mediocre to terrible relievers don't forget Stanton. I can't get over how dumb Sabean is.
2006-07-28 22:32:18
524.   Brendan
I would have liked to have seen Tomko here( can't believe I typed that much less thought it)
2006-07-28 22:34:55
525.   Paul Scott
Betemit's chances of being a solid or better regular exceed those of Aybar's.

And your "projections" are better than PECOTAs on a regular basis or you have some other reason why conclusary statements without support should be accepted?

I am not meaning to be sardonic, though it is hard to tell in type, I just see a lot of "Betemit is solid" (with the presumption that Aybar is "less solid") without any backing - or at best with the backing of 9 HR in 220 PAs - since that is the first and only time in his career he has shown any power.

2006-07-28 22:35:19
526.   Daniel Zappala
I like how Colletti has traded Perez and Aybar, both more likely to contribute as utility players, and ended up with starters to replace them. In both cases, all it took was a throw-in who was considered expendable and yet oddly, the main player in the deal.
2006-07-28 22:35:47
527.   Paul Scott
524 - we would have to change the rules of baseball first.
2006-07-28 22:35:48
528.   Linkmeister
I'll vouch for the accuracy of the Braves Journal site; Mac's a (blogging) friend of mine. I won't vouch for any of his commenters, but then as bad as the Braves bullpen has been this year, they may find any straw inviting.
2006-07-28 22:36:33
529.   DaveP
503 - nate, see post #118 to see why that quote from Coletti is nice to see. It may seem obvious that Betemit could move to 2B, but the earlier quote could have been seen as Coletti bringing Betemit in for 3B only, putting LaRoche in question.
2006-07-28 22:36:45
530.   Bluebleeder87
good win tonight.
2006-07-28 22:37:24
531.   Jon Weisman
524 - Tomko pitched in the seventh.
2006-07-28 22:37:29
532.   Steve
525 -- Well, come on. Give him a break. It was his idea and all.
2006-07-28 22:39:26
533.   D4P
I like how Colletti has traded Perez and Aybar, both more likely to contribute as utility players, and ended up with starters to replace them

But aren't terms like "utility player" and "starter" subjective? It's not like guys are inherently one or the other. If, for example, Grittle had chosen to start Aybar, he would have been a "starter." He was only a "utility player" because he was used that way.

2006-07-28 22:40:53
534.   Andrew Shimmin
Flanders pronounces it Beht-uh-mint. Awesome. Flanders is a little guy, isn't he? Big hair, though.
2006-07-28 22:41:56
535.   trainwreck
Ned just listen to Logan White, Logan White will lead us.
2006-07-28 22:42:25
536.   Suffering Bruin
Just when you thought it was safe to move on to other topics...

By the by, if you haven't read the Jim Leyland entry, ask yourself why.

2006-07-28 22:43:59
537.   Steve
533 -- Sort of like how Baez is supposedly a "closer." So true. But it works the other way coming back.

This trade is like the Ethier and Seo trades. One hit big and the other flopped. All we can ask is that Ned do deals that have a chance. The Devil Ray trades had no chance of helping us regardless of performance and we paid the price for that (even today, when we had to give up Aybar along with Baez to do the deal). But this deal has potential. So many deals that were out there don't.

2006-07-28 22:44:11
538.   StolenMonkey86
What will Plaschke say about the trade?
2006-07-28 22:45:25
539.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody know what the Yankees' offer for Betemit was? I saw, somewhere, that the deal breaker was Scott Procter. Which, I can't tell whether that's funny or sad.
2006-07-28 22:45:56
540.   Daniel Zappala
If, for example, Grittle had chosen to start Aybar, he would have been a "starter." He was only a "utility player" because he was used that way.

Well, yeah, but that's what a utility player is. Someone who your manager doesn't think is good enough to start every day. Aybar has been up and down between AAA and the majors, and the Dodgers didn't think he was good enough to start for them. If Betemit turns out as well as Ethier ...

2006-07-28 22:48:03
541.   Brendan

don't know how I missed that. thanks

2006-07-28 22:48:52
542.   Steve
540 - Exactly. If Betemit turns out to be Aybar, then all you did is replace what you were going to turn Aybar into regardless of whatever he's going to be (which nobody knows anyway, since he's only 23). And Baez is the Encarnacion of the deal. If Atlanta thinks they got something out of that, who cares? They didn't, and only their delusional fans think otherwise.
2006-07-28 22:49:18
543.   D4P
If Betemit turns out as well as Ethier

Who's to say...?

2006-07-28 22:49:46
544.   Daniel Zappala
I also like the way that Colletti appears to be working well with Little. Little clearly didn't trust Baez any more and needed a solid 3B, so Colletti got a deal done, without giving up any significant prospects (again). If they continue to work this well together, I'll be pretty happy.
2006-07-28 22:49:50
545.   thinkblue0
I hope Flanders was being political with his statement about going after two month rentals.

Hope is a good thing.

I hope.

2006-07-28 22:49:57
546.   trainwreck
Ned said the guys that have performed in the upper leagues are the ones he won't deal. That means we are on Guzman, Laroche, Elbert, DeWitt, and Loney watch.
2006-07-28 22:51:27
547.   trainwreck
Billingsley is the slump buster.
2006-07-28 22:52:24
548.   Steve
I do miss the chance at the draft picks a little bit, but on the other hand, it spares us from the arbitration Hobson's choice that was bearing down on us.
2006-07-28 22:52:36
549.   Uncle Miltie
Ned said they are looking at A starting pitching. He also said that if a 2 month rental makes sense then he will pursue. This leads me to believe that he is after Greg Maddux. As much I liked Maddux when he was in his prime, he isn't the same pitcher. He isn't even the same pitcher that he was in April/May.

It's not worth it Ned!

2006-07-28 22:54:02
550.   Bluebleeder87
I like how Billingsley pitched today he is the slump buster.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2006-07-28 22:54:28
551.   natepurcell

we still have Nomar's and Toby Halls draft picks lol.

2006-07-28 22:56:01
552.   trainwreck
And the two month rental we trade for.
2006-07-28 22:56:39
553.   Steve
549 -- He was talking about a #1 pitcher on Wednesday and saying how few there were ("There aren't thirty #1 pitchers.") I don't think he had Maddux in mind, honestly.

That said, I wouldn't trade Andrew's coffee addiction for Maddux.

2006-07-28 22:56:43
554.   Bluebleeder87
Izzy is a homerun hitting machine
2006-07-28 22:58:09
555.   Gen3Blue
I think the slump has broken.
However I didn't like that postgame show.
I seems like Ned liked the accolades he collected for todays trade so much that hes's looking to make some more.
546 I hope not.
There are only two prospects I'd trade for an exceptional deal like a young starter, and those are D. Young and Broxton. They are redundant if Brox isn't a starter.
2006-07-28 22:59:46
556.   das411
Gah, no way am I readnig 550 comments about whether Aybar and Betemit are actually the same least, not this late at nihgt...but thanks for sending Baez ino the NL East! It's about time soemone sabotaged the Braves, no?

And Sam, as good as it is that Bell is gone, I'd rather see Dave Hollins starting at 3B tomorrow than Nunez. WHY could we not swap him + Sal + Lidle for Aybar instead???

2006-07-28 23:00:09
557.   trainwreck
If Laroche, Elbert, or Dewitt is traded I will cry.

And they are bashing DePodesta once again. Organization really benefitting, we are in last place!!

2006-07-28 23:01:41
558.   ToyCannon
From Organization Report at BA:
Dodgers Organization Report: July 28

Promotion Pending
By Tony Jackson
E-mail this article
July 28, 2006 Print this article

LOS ANGELES--Sergio Pedroza had swatted a South Atlantic League-leading 21 home runs, but he still couldn't swat his way through the glass ceiling keeping him at low Class A Columbus.

"We're trying to find a way to get him to the next level," farm director Terry Collins said. "But right now, we don't have a spot for him (in high Class A)."

Pedroza, 22, was the Dodgers' third-round pick out of Cal State Fullerton in 2005, and he was hitting .282 for the Catfish with a league-best 74 runs and a .434 on-base percentage.

"That's what he did in college," Collins said. "He's one of those guys that has always had a tremendous on-base percentage, and he does have a pretty good eye at the plate. But we do want him to cut down on his strikeouts a little bit, because we feel that would allow him to produce even bigger numbers offensively."

Pedroza had struck out 91 times in 312 at-bats, once every 3.4 at-bats. But he also had drawn 69 walks, a solid 1.3-1 strikeout-walk ratio. He also had 24 doubles.

There is some talk, albeit preliminary, of converting Pedroza to catcher, a position he played in high school. The precedent was established three years ago with former third baseman Russell Martin, who has become the everyday catcher for the Dodgers, not to mention the best defensive backstop Los Angeles has seen in years.

Dodgers scouting director Logan White is quietly, but cautiously, pushing for club officials to at least try a similar move with Pedroza, an experiment that might take place as soon as this fall in instructional league.

Pedroza had committed nine errors in right field this season, but Collins said that is in no way a concern.

"A lot of those throwing errors can be misleading," he said. "Maybe you make a good throw, and it gets away from somebody. So we're not too worried about it."


• First baseman James Loney was the Triple-A Pacific Coast League's runaway batting leader for Las Vegas. Loney was hitting .383 with a .422 on-base percentage and had walked almost as many times (20) as he had struck out (22).

• In his first 11 games after being promoted from Double-A Jacksonville to Las Vegas, third baseman Andy LaRoche batted .279 (12-for-43) with three homers and six RBIs. LaRoche is a strong candidate for a September callup.

2006-07-28 23:02:38
559.   Bluebleeder87
Goose nights.
2006-07-28 23:05:33
560.   natepurcell

Pedroza could be a Mike Napoli type catcher offensively.

and by Mike Napoli, the Napoli we are seeing this year.

2006-07-28 23:06:13
561.   natepurcell

not seeing this year


2006-07-28 23:12:21
562.   ToyCannon
Shocked at the number of backers of this deal. Put me in the majority, been a big fan of Betemit since last year when he stepped in for the injured Jones and did a fine job in his 1st taste of full time play. Ask BobbyGrich if he is to big to play 2nd base.
Paul Scott is worried about his arbitration clock but since he has only been a super sub I expect his salary won't be anything we can't handle. I was a big Aybar backer but the more he played the more unimpressed I became. He may very well be as good as Betemit when the career's are over but Betemit will be better sooner and I don't think Willie can match Betemit's power potential. I was never the hater of Baez that 99% of the group is, you were determined to hate him and you succeeded. He was not close to being as bad as you all think he was but for the money he was being paid I'm glad he's now pitching for the Braves.
2006-07-28 23:12:49
563.   Vaudeville Villain
The post-game interview kind of scared me. Kevin Kennedy made a statement about needing pitching, preferably a young guy, and Colletti ignored the young part.


2006-07-28 23:14:29
564.   ToyCannon
Of all the young kids making impressions this year, Mike Napoli is the biggest surprise to me. I figured he could hit home runs but I thought he'd be hitting 220 or so. I always love it when the highly touted guy fails and the guy whose been ignored steps upto the plate and delivers. He helped save the Angel season.
2006-07-28 23:17:11
565.   ToyCannon
Yeah, I meant to add that while everyone is loving this deal, I expect the next one where we get a Lidle/Lieber/K Wells type to leave them stoning Ned all over again.
2006-07-28 23:18:48
566.   trainwreck
I will want to stone Ned if that happens, which is why I said I was nervous.
2006-07-28 23:19:37
567.   Telemachos
Am I the only guy who wouldn't mind seeing Maddux in Dodger blue? I just don't want to give up a lot for him, but even in his reduced state I think he could really help our staff -- he's a reasonable #5 starter, and could help the younger pitchers develop as well.
2006-07-28 23:20:46
568.   dzzrtRatt
Baez really wasn't that bad. He had a bad slump and didn't leave a good impression on the fans here, but he pitched well enough generally. But Tomko in his new role has made him redundant, and he was a natural guy to trade. As is Izzy. I don't hate Izzy, but we don't need him anymore, and the sense of moral obligation to play him is distorting lineups, for what reason I don't know. With Betamit here, are we going to see Izzy play more so Kent, Furcal and Nomar can "rest?" It's silly for him to be taking up a roster spot.
2006-07-28 23:21:31
569.   dsfan

Sorry, no luck on Dewan regarding Betemit. Perhaps he didn't play enough last year to warrant a bio sketch.

As for the trade, a solid one for the Dodgers, but I also think Baez can help the Braves get the wild card berth and am hopeful Willy will benefit from a fresh start.

Atlanta's among the best at evaluating talent, so there's a bit of buyer-beware concern anytime you get one of their so-called young studs, but I do believe they felt some pressure to fortify the bullpen, especially after Smoltz called them out.

As an example of Atlanta's scouting acumen, many people were saying last winter that Marte was going to be terrific this year. They had lots of impressive numbers to back it up, but the Braves doubted his ability to hit certain pitches at a high level, and Martee showed those holes this year in Triple-A, getting off to an awful start. Good to see he's started to get going.

Betemit needs to watch his weight but I see his present and his upside as more than Willy.

I stand by my evaluation at the time Willy was demoted, that he wasn't just in a slump, that he cratering and that the minors were the best place for him to bottom out and make some adjustments. He went 6-for-44 or so thereafter in Vegas with about .250 OBP. Pitchers were finally coming after him and he couldn't counter. That's a big deal for a guy whose walk ability was a big part of his game.

Betemit has already gone through such fires and proven that he can adjust and counter at the major league level, largely because he will punish pitcher who come after him. He still some holes, definitely can be "pitched to" but that power dimension is what makes you say this can work.

The thing that's so hard for so many young players is you have to have something to counter with, to hang your hat on when major league pitchers expose you -- maybe it's good defense or great baserunning or, more excitingly to many folks, power potential against the mediocre or bad pitch (given the state of pitching, this is almost obligatory).

You've got to give your manager something good to keep throwing you out there when he knows you're likely going to get carved up at the plate.

And it's even more important for a young switch-hitter to have that something that keeps him out there getting those ABs. Why? He's got two swings to maintain. One's hard enough.

Betemit is stiff at second, though. And that matters. Ned's got it right: Third is where he belongs. Maybe you send him to instructs for second-base immersion this November, but the less time there is now the better. And Izzy going to 2B is a nice positive resulting from the trade.

2006-07-28 23:22:00
570.   StolenMonkey86
562 - according to, he has 1.062 yrs accumulated service time
2006-07-28 23:22:28
571.   dzzrtRatt
565 I would enjoy seeing Lieber here.

But, {sigh}, someone's going to jump in here and tell me his peripherals are all awry.

2006-07-28 23:27:45
572.   StolenMonkey86
Not a bad idea to put Izzy at 2nd when Olmedo's playing first
2006-07-28 23:28:22
573.   Uncle Miltie
I'd take a chance on Lieber too. He's a solid pitcher (usually) and he's durable. He's having a bad year which means that he probably won't cost a lot in terms of prospects. He has another year left on his contract after this season. That's the kind of gamble that Ned should be taking. Maddux is done.
2006-07-28 23:29:28
574.   natepurcell

all great points, i enjoyed reading it. I agree that for this year, 3rd base is where Betemit should be. But I like his overall athleticism and I think one winterball session in the DR could help him to make the switch.

2006-07-28 23:40:28
575.   JoeyP
If Betemit turns out to be Aybar, then all you did is replace what you were going to turn Aybar into regardless of whatever he's going to be

True, but Betemit costs more with being arbitration eligible.

2006-07-28 23:42:41
576.   gibsonhobbs88
Finally - A night to be proud of, the Dodgers break out and end a long losing streak and they make a solid if not spectacular trade. They didn't trade any major prospect, got rid of Baez and got a young, with his prime years ahead of him 3B with some pop in his bat. We hope the weekend ends with our top prospects in place and we get rid of a couple of our "punchless and judy" hitters.
2006-07-28 23:45:26
577.   JoeyP
I was never the hater of Baez that 99% of the group is, you were determined to hate him and you succeeded. He was not close to being as bad as you all think

So our "hate" drove made Baez off the team?
Too bad that hasnt worked for Izturis.

2006-07-28 23:46:09
578.   gibsonhobbs88
573 - Is Lieber hiding any injuries? I would be wary of someone having a bad year that is normally stable and durable. The last thing we need is to obtain him and 3 weeks in, find out he needs elbow ligament surgery or rotator cuff injury.
2006-07-28 23:49:06
579.   JoeyP
If Lieber has another year on his contract, theres's no way Ned should trade for him.

The Dodgers already have Tomko, Hendrickson (2 mediocre) starters on the books for next year. Adding a 3rd one would not be advisable.

2006-07-28 23:50:41
580.   gibsonhobbs88
577 - I didn't hate Baez but he did do one thing, when he blew a game, he did it big time, he blew up big! He blew 5-0 leads to San Diego, 5-2 against the hated Giants and gave up 5 runs without getting an out against Philly. His blowups were ill-timed and seemed to tie into the team losing a few in a row or ending a good streak they were on.
2006-07-28 23:54:27
581.   JoeyP
But, {sigh}, someone's going to jump in here and tell me his peripherals are all awry.

Jon Lieber will be 37 years old next year.
Never, ever spend money on non-difference making veterans. Lieber is exactly the type of guy that Ned would go for...So hopefully he doesnt.

Stockpiling young players-- good.
Stockpiling "innings eaters", "veteran presence", "good clubhouse guy"-- bad.

2006-07-28 23:58:36
582.   dsfan

Two other things I like about the trade.

It should create leverage, because (and this a premise others may attack) the Dodgers filled an everyday hole, 3B, for this year and next year. You go into the offseason with one less hole to fill. For too many years, Dodgers GMs have had too many holes to fill in the offseason. And all the better if LaRoche is tearing it up in Triple-A this year and early next year. Even more leverage.

This is a smaller thing to like, because one doesn't know how much Little knows about Betemit, or how much information on him Colletti obtained.

But a fundamental to every trade is: Know the person. Far, far easier said than done. Many of don't even know ourselves, so how can a GM know about the person he is trading for, the qualities outside of the player's skill set?

My guess is Little's extensive background with the Braves has allowed him to obtain pretty good information on Betemit the person over the years. And Colletti's big strength -- purportedly -- is his ability to network and glean intelligence from a wide variety of sources such as former teammates, coaches, even agents.

One never totally knows, but I like their chances of knowing the person in this case, although their apparent lack of knowledge on Toby Hall the person gives me pause.

2006-07-29 00:03:41
583.   dsfan

Agree with you. Tiny point: A smidge harsh to nail him totally for "blowing" the 5-0 lead vs. San Diego.
He wasn't supposed to pitch that day. Had pitched the prior two games and supposedly was told he was pretty much off. Then Carter immediately loaded the bases with none out in the ninth. Baez was thrust into it after warming up hastily and looked nothing at all like he had all April (IIRC, he hadn't allowed an earned run as a Dodger, something like eight games).

Again, I agree with your point.

2006-07-29 00:05:53
584.   JoeyP
How is there more leverage when Aybar could have been that everyday 3rd base guy?

The Dodgers basically traded Aybar, for an older more expensive Aybar. The new Aybar has more power, but less plate discipline. Thats a trade off.

But to act as if there's new 'leverage', is just ignoring what Willy Aybar could have been.

2006-07-29 00:11:46
585.   heato

The guy who fell and ate it is Dennis Gilbert.

2006-07-29 00:14:42
586.   StolenMonkey86
According to the Daily News, the Dodgers are paying the rest of Baez's salary.

When Colletti says the Dodgers are buyers, I guess he means that in the group of people at a restaraunt sense, that they'll pay for everybody.

2006-07-29 00:20:14
587.   StolenMonkey86
Ned Colletti doesn't go dutch
2006-07-29 00:20:54
588.   Uncle Miltie
If we traded for Lieber, I'd expect the Phillies to pay for part of his contract.
2006-07-29 00:25:33
589.   blue22
588 - Lieber is only in for $7.5M next year. Philly wouldn't have to kick in much to make that worthwile, but that just increases the quality of the prospect in return.
2006-07-29 00:30:21
590.   JoeyP
If Lieber was free, I dont think I'd want him in the rotation in 2007.

Lieber at this piont in his career is a #5. The Dodgers are only going to get better by signing Zito/Schmidt/Zambrano level difference maker. Bringing in a #5 does nothing. It'd be Hendrickson/Tomko/Jeff Weaver all over again. Same goes for Maddux. He's useless in 2007.

2006-07-29 00:32:06
591.   Uncle Miltie
While Baez put a positive spin on the move, the 23-year-old Aybar seemed stunned.

"I'm very surprised," he said through an interpreter. "I was hoping to stay here for good. This has been my team since I was a child."

Sad to see one of my favorite players go. I've been following him since he made it up to Vero. Good luck Wilber...

2006-07-29 00:34:05
592.   Greg Brock
Since I just got here, have no idea what you guys think of the Betemit deal, and am not going to go back and read all the 5,856,729 comments, I just want to say that I like the deal.

I'm sure most of you disagree. Just because that's how my beloved DT brethren roll. We disagree with most things

I just wanted to drop my four hapennies.

2006-07-29 00:35:14
593.   dsfan

Agree with you on Baez.

Disagree with you on Izzy, while acknowledging I'm among Izzy's few defenders here.

He should be an excellent second baseman and that matters a great deal to a pitching staff and defense such as this one.
As it is, SS and CF are question marks defensively (frankly, CF is plain bad). Up-the-middle defense is a big thing to me. The lone Dodgers' division title since 95 came when they had a good one. I don't think it wholly coincidental. Izzy can bring strength to the spine (and I'd put Drew in CF, but that's a topic for another day). An ancillary benefit, I believe, is he would enhance Furcal defensively.

Further, Kent, given his age and the nature of oblique injuries, should be thought a question mark in bright red ink, even after he comes off the DL.

Betemit at 2B? Only sparingly. He would give you three question marks up the middle. He's unwieldy there right now, maybe you immerse him there in the winter.

I also think more teams could be hungrier for a SS this winter than at present, so Izzy probably would have more value on the market.

Another premise to my evaluation is that Izzy, before blowing out his hammy and elbow, was in the midst of becoming a better hitter than his dreadful career minor league and major league OPS numbers.

Not saying he'll ever be a good hitter, but I believe the Wallach drills on improving his bottom-hand strength were paying off in 2004 (not hugely dis-similar to Ozzie Smith's improvement), that his progress as a hitter in 2004 and 2005 (OPS circa .810 when the hammy injury first struck in early June) was not hugely flukish. Keep in mind that he's still learning his two swings.

Full-time at 2B, I think he could be a .730-760 OPS guy with excellent defense at age 26-28. Maybe that doesn't excite most people, but you can do a whole lot worse. Or maybe you think he just can't get there.

What he's done the past 3-6 weeks speaks well of him -- consider had a full year off, was put at a tough position where he essentially had never played. And pitchers who had TJ surgery will tell you that the strength is fine one year later, but it takes two years before your nerves fire in a consistent way where full coordination is restored on a daily basis.

Keep Izzy unless you get something pretty doggone solid.

2006-07-29 00:41:49
594.   Vaudeville Villain

This stinks for Aybar. I hope he has a good career. I still think this is a good trade, though.

And it's definitely time to go to sleep. I have visions in my head that people are advocating trading for John Lieber. John freakin' Lieber!

2006-07-29 00:46:49
595.   JoeyP
What he's done the past 3-6 weeks speaks well of him

RATE2 at 3b: 96

Could he have done worse?

2006-07-29 00:47:52
596.   dsfan

It has to be jarring for Aybar. I hope it works out for him. But he's going to a great place. It's a better hitting lineup. Could be better for him. And Cox's track record with young players is impressive. I'm happy for him in that regard, but it has to be emotional. He's been affiliated with the Dodgers a long time, longer than most of the players on the 40-man.

2006-07-29 00:50:50
597.   dsfan
His defense at 3B has been very good.
We disagree on the value of rate2. The other day, Aybar had an awful game at 2B and his rate2 improved.
2006-07-29 00:54:12
598.   regfairfield
597 BP admits that rate2 is very shaky with small sample sizes.
2006-07-29 00:55:39
599.   Uncle Miltie
It stinks to see a guy you've followed for a while finally make it to the majors and then get traded. That's part of the business and the Dodgers made a good trade. Agree that it's good that he's going to a great organization. This improves his chances of reaching his potential. He's also going to a contender. What I worry about is where the Braves are going to play him. They already have Chipper and Renteria on the left side of the infield. Giles may be expendable, but would the Braves trust Aybar as their everyday 2B defensively?
2006-07-29 01:02:07
600.   natepurcell
The Braves want Aybar to be a UT IF this year to back up chipper and giles. With Chippers fraility and Giles inconsistency, I'm sure Aybar will get some ABs though.
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2006-07-29 01:05:22
601.   natepurcell
from someone on primer.

Its not correct. Period. Never has been his real b-day, never will be.
Its been gone through 100 times. Betemit wanted to sign from the DR BEFORE he was he faked his BDay UPWARDS almost 2 years (like Renteria did at one point too coincidently) so he could sign sooner. Eventually it was found out and it was quite the big deal. The Braves were banned from signing intl FAs for 6 months for signing an underaged Betemit. However, even after the story broke, many places never corrected Betemits age.
His b-day, his 100% correct b-day, is Nov 1981. Wilson Betemit is currently 24 years of age and putting up a 280/350/500 line as an athletic, toolsy 3b/ss.
That means when he was 19, he hit 350 in AA despite weighing about 150 pounds.\
Next year he will be 25...and quite possibly an all-star for the first of many times to come ugh*

Sounds good to me.

2006-07-29 01:05:55
602.   Greg Brock
What do you think of the deal, Nate?
2006-07-29 01:07:22
603.   Greg Brock
Keeping in mind that if you like it I agree, and if you don't, you're wrong.


2006-07-29 01:13:35
604.   natepurcell

I like the deal. I'm a big Betemit fan. Hes got nice tools and athleticism and has the size and frame to be masher too.

2006-07-29 01:15:06
605.   natepurcell
to add, Betemit, Ethier and Martin are a good young core when we are breaking in Laroche, Loney and Guzman next year.
2006-07-29 01:17:03
606.   natepurcell
oops i forgot about Kemp. Heh, too many players :)
2006-07-29 01:18:08
607.   Greg Brock
The future's so bright, I have to wear protective eyewear.
2006-07-29 01:23:40
608.   Uncle Miltie
607- and sunscreen

"The offense came out great tonight coming off of a day off, and we really swung the bats well." -Billingsley

The Department of Redundancy Department...

2006-07-29 01:33:10
609.   JoeyP
The only thing that concerns me about Betemit is his low bbs and low HRs to go along with high K's (which is hard to do) Hopefully he doesnt morph into Juan Encarnacion, although looking at his career he isnt quite as bad as Juan E.
2006-07-29 01:45:00
610.   JoeyP

There's a story on Betemit where the author states he's 20.

Between 2002 and 2006, he aged 6 years instead of four according to all of the outlets.

Canuck's theory makes sense, because if you go back to most of the stories written around 00-02, all of them claim Betemit as being around 18-20. It was between 02-06 that he 'aged' more than he should have.

2006-07-29 01:50:46
611.   JoeyP

Another story written in 2003, mentions Betemit as being 21.

If these old stories are all correct, why would ESPN, Rotoworld,, baseballcube all change his age back to the wrong thing once he made the big leagues?

2006-07-29 01:52:36
612.   natepurcell

lol. Give it up, hes 24, not 26.

2006-07-29 01:54:03
613.   natepurcell

Because they suck? I don't know. All I do know is that he is 24 yrs old and he turns 25 in November. Therefore this is his age 24 season.

2006-07-29 01:56:12
614.   Eric L
Can someone please explain to me how Baez wasn't that horrible? I know he went through a bad stretch, but the dude has a WHIP of 1.29. That's pretty darn terrible for a reliever.

I know WHIP isn't a great stat, and I'm sure that defense can make it fluctuate (like ERA and such) but one of your better relievers can't allow baserunners at that rate.

2006-07-29 01:59:27
615.   natepurcell

Baez throws one pitch and had a krate of 5.26

As a late ining "power arm", thats pathetic.

2006-07-29 02:23:19
616.   JoeyP
The Braves were "found" to have signed Betemit too young on the basis of FALSE information, before the post 9/11 crackdown on foreign birth certificates. In 2004, the Novemeber 1981 birthdate was legitimately found to be wrong.

I think so too.
Thats the only reason I can think of for all the media outlets to have Betemit at 21 in 2003, but 26 in 2006. Why would they all change something if it wasnt correct? Something after 2003 happened. Maybe Betemit claimed he was younger than he really was to increase his market value. MLB investigated and believed Betemit's story, and suspended the Braves back in 2000. However, in 2004 the US Govt did their own investigating on people and declared differently. Thus, Betemit was returned to his original age.

I have to believe the kid is 26. Right now, its Baseball Prospectus against everyone else, including the actual home site. No publication would have his age correct through the minors, then all the sudden up it once he got to the majors if it wasnt for good reason.

2006-07-29 02:28:00
617.   StolenMonkey86
silly ESPN, picture of Baez with headline

'Pen is now mightier

You're going to have to use a different definition of "might" to draw that conclusion

2006-07-29 02:38:27
618.   CanuckDodger
Atlanta's GM said Friday night that Friday was Betemit's birthday. That should really put an end to the idea that the "Novemeber birthdate" is accurate. By now, Schuerholz would know the birthday of a player who has been in Atlanta's system forever and was their top prospect for a good number of years.
2006-07-29 02:40:40
619.   Uncle Miltie
Los Angeles acquired 3B Wilson Betemit from Atlanta -- on his 25th birthday -- in exchange for RHP Danys Baez and IF Willy Aybar. Betemit's agent told the team's publicity department that his client was born in 1981, not 1980 as it is listed everywhere
Is Betemit's agent lying? I really don't think so. That's from yahoo. It looks like his birthday was yesterday, but that he is 25, not 26.
2006-07-29 02:45:29
620.   JoeyP
Of course his agent is going to say he's younger. That means more money for him.
2006-07-29 02:51:44
621.   JoeyP
Where was the part about the agent?
This is the story from AP:
Where did you see the agent part?

Betemit has been the Braves' most valuable player off the bench, filling in at second, short and third when the starters were sidelined by injuries. The switch-hitter, who turned 25 Friday, is batting .281 with nine homers and 29 RBIs.

Yahoo has it as:

Betemit, who was celebrating his 26th birthday on Friday, hit .281 with nine homers and 29 RBI in 87 games for the Braves. Izturis was batting .243 with no homers and nine RBI in 29 contests.

2006-07-29 02:55:49
622.   JoeyP
LA Times:

Betemit, who turned 26 Friday, is hitting .281 with nine home runs and 29 runs batted in in 87 games. A 6-3, 200-pound switch-hitter from the Dominican Republic, Betemit has demonstrated two qualities the Dodgers' offense has lacked: power and clutch hitting.

Betemit has 25 extra-base hits in 199 at-bats this season, has a .333 average with runners in scoring position and a .435 mark with runners in scoring position and two out.

2006-07-29 04:29:27
623.   Sam DC
1. First Odalis salary now Betemit's age. Dodger trades do have their riddles wrapped in enigmas shrouded in mystery. Next up, how tall is Greg Maddux really?

2. My mother emailed late last night and instructed me to put the kids in the Dodger T-Shirts she sent this morning. Cold!

3. sniff 622 comments and not a single react to my Ryan Zimmerman hagiography.

2006-07-29 04:30:40
624.   Sam DC
623(2) er, grammer defect -- move the "this morning" as the shirts were sent weeks ago.
2006-07-29 06:23:09
625.   Daniel Zappala
Sam, I skipped most of the comments last night so I didn't see your piece on Zimmerman. Went back and read it and it is great. Very unusual that he's playing that well straight out of college. I particularly appreciated the pointer to the human interest article. He has a great story. Sounds to me like the Nationals will have a great player at 3B for many years. We can only hope LaRoche does as well for the Dodgers.

Keep writing about the Nationals -- I like hearing your point of view.

2006-07-29 06:29:00
626.   MartinBillingsley31
I wasn't around last night to chat or find out about this trade, i just found out now.
I wish i knew ned's plan, because if this blocks laroche, then i don't care for this trade, but if you just look at the pieces of this trade, its a good trade.

Now, espn stats say benemit has played some shortstop as well as 2b, so if the plan is to play benemit at ss and unload furcal (not necessarily this year but later on) then this is a home run trade.

I've been thinking that aybar at ss and unloading furcal would be a good idea, but with ned liking good defense i don't think that would ever happen, but now with benemit....

So in the long run, if ned puts benemit at ss, laroche at 3b, and kent at 2b until 2008 then dewitt, this plan in my opinion is a home run plan.

The only way i don't like this trade is if laroche goes on the trading block.

God, i wish i could figure out ned like i could with depodesta.

2006-07-29 06:49:23
627.   Paul Scott
I like the deal. I'm a big Betemit fan. Hes got nice tools and athleticism and has the size and frame to be masher too.

Well, finally I understand. You like him because he "looks like a player." That's fine, it just leaves nothing to discuss. Suprised to read that kind of "reasoning" from you though.

2006-07-29 07:37:36
628.   MartinBillingsley31
I'm finding that ned's trades aren't really an upgrade.
Is benemit an upgrade over kent assuming kent gets traded?, my answer is no.
Is benemit an upgrade over our future 2b dewitt?, my answer is no.
Is benemit an upgrade over our future 3b laroche?, my answer is no.
Is benemit an upgrade over furcal assuming furcal gets traded?, my answer yes a little bit and on top of that we get rid of furcal's contract which is more handcuffing than kent's contract (furcal 13 mill for the next 2 years, kent 11.5 mill for 1 year).

So if the plan is to unload furcal and his contract and replace him with benemit, this trade is a huge home run, otherwise it only improves the team this year (and who cares about this year) and could be a downgrade in the long run if benemit kicks laroche or kent and/or dewitt out the door.

2006-07-29 07:47:40
629.   D4P
Just to clarify, Baez was that bad.

PS: Does anyone know if the Braves "soured" on Betemit? Were they shopping him, or did Flanders just knock their stirrup socks off with a deal they couldn't refuse...?

2006-07-29 07:53:06
630.   MartinBillingsley31
Does anyone know if the Braves "soured" on Betemit? Were they shopping him, or did Flanders just knock their stirrup socks off with a deal they couldn't refuse...?

Here is a part of an article from

Collettti said things really picked up trade-wise on Thursday night. He also said most of the calls have been outgoing, rather than incoming.

Outgoing rather than incoming?
It doesn't prove anything but....

2006-07-29 07:56:59
631.   Steve
614 -- I appreciate the intellectual honesty of your post.

592 -- Guess again.

We've managed to make the age debate boring. He's what he is, and Flanders clearly didn't trade for him because he's "24."

2006-07-29 08:02:59
632.   D4P
We've managed to make the age debate boring

Gee, how did that happen?

2006-07-29 08:07:12
633.   Bob Timmermann
Maybe Betemit was "24" in Jack Bauer terms.
2006-07-29 08:12:59
634.   MartinBillingsley31
ooopppsss, i misspelled betemit.
2006-07-29 08:17:06
635.   LAT
Went to the game last night. For those of you speculating about a Soriono deal, I'll throw some fuel on the fire.

I was sitting in the Dugout Club (about six seats from Dennis Gilbert--poor guy went down hard). About 20-30 mins after the game we were hanging out in the hallway between the Dodgers and the Visiting team's locker room. The Dodger's clubhouse door opens and out walks Soriono with a Nat's represenative (Soriono was still in his uni but without his jersey.) He didn't sign or stop for even a second and went straight into the Nat's locker room.

Now, I don't know if this means anything, I suspect it doesn't and indeed I didn't think anything of it until I read this thread. But, Soriono was the only Nat's play to emerge from the Dodger locker room and I have never seen another visitor come out of the Dodgers clubhouse. (I had assumed Frank took him out so he doesn't get hurt before the deadline.)

If there is a deal, maybe I'll catch wind of something today from my host.

A couple of other observations: Billingsly will be great soon as he develops more confidence. There's no doubt he has the stuff. Just needs to go after hitters more. After the game he stayed and signed for every kid in the place.

Ethier also signed every ball, cap and paper handed to him.

Drew did not hang around to sign for anyone but in fairness looked like he was late and felt badly about it.

Lofton, blew everyone off and did not seem very nice about the whole thing.

Mark Hindrickson signed for most everyone.

Nomar signed a few and said he was sorry but had to run.

For Bob: Frank Robinson was even nastier and surlier than I expected. He wouldn't sign for anyone and didn't even try to feign regret. He was almost belittling.

Sam, I very much enjoyed your Zimmerman post. Especially as I try to get up to speed on the Nats. Thanks again for your input and I will post a full report after I get back from today's game.

2006-07-29 08:28:24
636.   bhsportsguy
You know you read DT too much when the first thing you think of when you hear about a trade is what will JoeyP and Nate think about it.

I too was at the game last night, took a buddy and we sat in those baseline seats down the LF line. The good, leg room storage area, the bad, not much, just have to get used to the angles.

Ethier is a lot bigger than I thought he was, also I like his hustle on the "triple" he hit last night.

Don't know if anyone noticed but when I finally saw JD's ball go over the wall and turned to see the players rounding the bases, JD was not too far behind the guy ahead of him, he must have thought it wasn't going out.

I agree with the statements about Chad being more agressive, could not tell from where I was sitting but I don't think he had a good curveball all night.

I was shocked to find that you guys could spend 400 comments whether Wilson is 24, 25 or 26.

Okay, maybe not so shocked.

Go get them today so I can watch a sweep tomorrow.

2006-07-29 08:31:58
637.   bonnie
Loney gets called up according to LAdugout.
2006-07-29 08:41:07
638.   Steve
637 -- Dominance now!

Meanwhile, this is why I love the trade deadline:

The Astros, Angels and Rangers are offering significant major-league talent for Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada, has learned.

*Orioles owner Peter Angelos, who said last month that the team would not trade Tejada, could reconsider his position due to the quality of the proposals.
The Angels are offering right-hander Ervin Santana and Class AAA shortstop Erick Aybar, according to multiple major-league sources.*

The Astros are offering "prime major-league pieces," a major-league source says, topping the proposal they made for Tejada last off-season – closer Brad Lidge, shortstop Adam Everett and an outfielder, either Jason Lane or Willy Taveras.

Somebody needs to call in the Department of Agriculture because that is a felonious misuse of the word "prime"

Now, Ervin Santana would make me think.

2006-07-29 08:45:52
639.   Steve
Danger, Will Robinson!

Betemit has demonstrated two qualities the Dodgers' offense has lacked: power and clutch hitting.

Betemit has 25 extra-base hits in 199 at-bats this season, has a .333 average with runners in scoring position and a .435 mark with runners in scoring position and two out.


2006-07-29 08:56:03
640.   Andrew Shimmin
Mark Hendrickson signed for most everyone.

What kind of sad, low-self-esteem child wants Mark Hendrickson's autograph? That's like getting your picture taken with a Disneyland parking lot attendant.

2006-07-29 09:01:18
641.   Steve
Flanders would love to get his autograph on a 4 year/$32 million contract
2006-07-29 09:10:27
642.   Sam DC
Thank Dan, LAT. I'll put my rod and reel away now.

Have fun at the game LAT. Look forward to your report.

2006-07-29 09:10:28
643.   Sushirabbit
Missed game thread and not willing to wade through it. Since Nashville is primarily Braves territory, I will point out that everyone here (in Nashville) feels about Betemit the same as most DTers feel about Laroche or Kemp. And in fact on one talk show the day before the trade, the guys were alll talking about how he was not going to get traded, "no way". Having seen B a few times, I think he has alot of upside.

Also, I was very surprised that the Brewers let Nelson Cruz go. Contrary to others opinion, I don't think he and Nix are "a wash". Still Cordero might be worth it to them. IMHO, crus should have gone up before Gwynn and would probably be doing better at the plate than Weeks. My new guy to watch from Nashville is Carlos Villanueva; that guys change is wicked, wicked.

2006-07-29 09:11:07
644.   Warren
I don't know how I feel about this trade.

Today's AJC quotes John Schuerholz: "The guy we got back, we like every bit as much as Wilson. Plus, we got a pitcher."

I think he might be right.

2006-07-29 09:31:23
645.   Greg S
644. About what? That they got a pitcher? Well I think that point might be heavily debated around here.
2006-07-29 09:38:20
646.   StolenMonkey86
644 - He's just a "pitcher?" But he's a proven closer!
2006-07-29 09:39:00
647.   MartinBillingsley31
I gotta think there is another trade coming, because when kent comes back who goes?
You can't trade a guy on the DL, so kent is not getting traded.

Izturis or martinez is going in a trade, i'd bet its izturis considering he has the most value in a trade plus his salary is higher than martinez, therefore a salary dump.

Everyone on the infield is out of options except martin (but that aint happening).

Basically when kent comes back, nobody can be sent down without losing them except martin which isn't going to happen.
And then there is a rumor loney has been called up (he has options, for a kent return)

2006-07-29 09:43:19
648.   StolenMonkey86
Loney has been called up!
2006-07-29 09:48:05
649.   OaklandAs
My summary of Betemit Age-Gate:
1) Betemit signed with the Braves in 1996, ten years ago. It was a very high profile signing.
2) Around 2000, it was discovered that the Braves had signed him before he turned 16. MLB investigated, and confirmed this.
3) In 2000, the Braves were fined and suspended from the DR for 6 months for signing Betemit underage (
4) In 2002-2004, the ages of many players were investigated, and many players magically aged a few years. There is no evidence that Betemit was one of these players.

So why do the Braves still list Betemit's age as 26? Because they don't want to draw attention to their mistake. It would be silly to say on his Player page that he was signed in 1996, and that he is 24 now. So they are trying to hide it, and hope no one notices.

Most of the mainstream media hasn't really paid attention. The only ones who do are people like Baseball Reference, Baseball Prospectus, and Baseball Primer, groups who like to study the facts carefully.

2006-07-29 09:58:28
650.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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