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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Going for the Bronze
2006-07-31 21:15
by Jon Weisman

A natty side debate that emerged during deadline week is whether it's rewarding to go for a playoff spot even if your World Series hopes are grim. Is it enough of a thrill just to be nominated?

One of the original topics on Dodger Thoughts - in fact, it was Day 2 - addressed this:

Long before Fox made the absurd move of trading Piazza, reasonable minds would wonder what it would take for the Dodgers to elevate a perennial 90-game winning team into a team that could win a World Series. This legitimate approach has been erased by a philosophy of trying to build a team that can somehow sneak into the playoffs and maybe luck into a World Series, with the hope I guess that Kirk Gibson will limp to the plate at age 46 and homer. I have long advocated that the Dodgers go back to trying to build a legitimate World Series champion, through a solid farm system and solid trades, even if it means tearing the current team apart.

This year's team has been more fun to watch, at least until two weeks ago, than any Dodger team for a while. But in my mind, it is not a team that you can tinker with to get over the top. It is a pretender, and while it still has the possibility to go far, it does not have the likelihood.

The current Dodgers should focus on returning to the first-half quality of play. They should celebrate the success whatever success they have this year. But when it comes to any transactions, their focus should still be on 2003 and beyond.

For me, I'd be happy to be the George Mason in a postseason tourney if that's the best I can do in a given year. A division title is a thrill, and being the underdog is fun while it lasts. And the less a team has been in the playoffs in recent years, the more fans there are that will be happy just to be part of the party.

But when I see a team with the potential to do more, a team with one of the best young cores in the game and money to spend to plug holes, I am more than willing to sacrifice short-term pleasures for the chance at something more. (I learned that while dating.) And I say that knowing that failing to seize the moment can sometimes be the worst thing you can do. (Um, I learned that while dating, too.) Because sometimes, as the Dodgers are currently hoping, you really can have your cake and eat it too. (Yep. Dating.)

In the end, what can I say? For the things that matter, I choose to hold out when I can. I'd rather do the right thing. The better you build a team, the more division titles - let alone World Series titles - you have a realistic shot at. But that doesn't mean I don't look at the Carpe Diem gang with some occasional pangs.

The funny thing is that this debate is only going to get more interesting in future years. When the Dodgers are riding the backs of Russell Martin and Scott Elbert toward the playoffs, when the prospects become young veterans, what will people like me say about the new young ones?

Comments (192)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-31 21:26:22
1.   Bob Timmermann
I'm thinking that Jon is glad that he is not dating anymore.
2006-07-31 21:27:13
2.   Jeromy
I want the Dodgers to make a run for the playoffs every year. It tells us they are trying to put the best product on the field right now. Also, I have read in lots of places (perhaps quotes from Beane) that once you get to the playoffs, the rest is a crapshoot. I'm all for going for it and rolling the dice. So, to answer your question: yes, there is a thrill in being nominated and getting a chance to play--even for only one series--on the big stage.
2006-07-31 21:29:57
3.   trainwreck
We will be in good shape as long as Logan White is there to help us decide who to keep and not.
2006-07-31 21:30:32
4.   StolenMonkey86
For me, I'd be happy to be the George Mason in a postseason tourney if that's the best I can do in a given year.
Didn't the Dodgers do that the last time they won the World Series?

Well, if that is the case, keep in mind that playing "Livin' on a Prayer" is not a sign of desperation.

I think Plaschke and Simers already fill the role of Billy Packer.

2006-07-31 21:32:22
5.   Bluebleeder87
our chances our still o.k. the thing is that we're gonna have to leap frog 4 teams.
2006-07-31 21:34:54
6.   Greg S
I still buy into the philosophy I think you were stating a few days ago. A good move is a good move. The exceptions don't overshadow the general rule. Rules like "don't ever trade a prospect for a veteran" are way to constricting. Make the moves that have the best chance of improving your team.
2006-07-31 21:35:13
7.   Sam DC
Apparently, the Nationals players were so pleased Alfonso Soriano was staying with the team that they decorated his locker with nude pictures of Denise Richards.


2006-07-31 21:35:57
8.   Voxter
Didn't the Dodgers do that the last time they won the World Series?

Yeah, but it was a lot easier to turn George Mason into Florida eighteen years ago than it is now. That extra round of playoffs is a real pain in the butt.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure I've not learned as much as Jon has from dating. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

2006-07-31 21:36:04
9.   StolenMonkey86
If we're going to use the NCAA basketball tourney analogy, we need nominees for the two ugliest players (Joakim Noah and Josh Boone archetypes) that we would face. Or at least one. Who is the ugliest player on a playoff contender in baseball?
2006-07-31 21:38:26
10.   Greg Brock
5 For some reason, I'm of the opinion that the Dodgers have a better chance of making the playoffs than the statistical probability we've discussed before. We have to leapfrog a bunch of teams, yes, but we have to leapfrog a great deal of mediocrity, which would make this season somewhat of a statistical outlier. It's not as though we're battling a group of 20 game over .500 juggernauts. I could be wrong.
2006-07-31 21:39:16
11.   Bob Timmermann

Odd that you would pick Joakim Noah since his father has done modeling in France and I believe his mother was a fashion model.

Genetics is not always benevolent.

2006-07-31 21:39:45
12.   Greg S
Also, I've been to more post season games than I can count. But among the most exciting and memorable games I can think of are games that happened in the last weekend of the regular season (1980, 2004 and many in between). Creating a team that can even compete to THAT point and generate moments like that, thatmeans a lot to me as a fan.
2006-07-31 21:40:42
13.   StolenMonkey86
10 - I'd say 20% just with this division (1 in 5), 80% if the Dodgers can play as well as they can.
2006-07-31 21:41:23
14.   Voxter
Who is the ugliest player on a playoff contender in baseball?

Gustavo Chacin of the Blue Jays looks like something out of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Jorge Posada is also a fairly, um, homely gentleman.

At the risk of starting a fight that I don't really care about, Barry Bonds' baby face on his elephantine head has gotten to be quite strange-looking.

2006-07-31 21:42:08
15.   Bob Timmermann

At this moment, the Dodgers are one full game behind the Rockies and Giants for fourth place. The Giants are down 6-4 in the 8th thanks to a nice throw from Soriano to nail Vizquel at the plate on a DP.

The Dodgers did leap ahead of all the NL East team with its sweep of the Nats.

Of course, since I'm back from vacation, the Dodgers will return to their ways of all but the very beginning and end of July and I will have to go into exile.

2006-07-31 21:42:22
16.   StolenMonkey86
11 - Part of that was bitterness, and the hair didn't help.
2006-07-31 21:44:56
17.   StolenMonkey86
2006-07-31 21:45:13
18.   Sam DC
No one else is a little surprised that a beat reporter broke the Code of Silence enough to report booze and naked Denise Richards photo in the lockeroom?
2006-07-31 21:45:37
19.   Voxter
13 - A lot of people have been waiting for "the Dodgers to play as well as they can" for a long time. The Dodgers are still the most talented team in the division, but I'd say that 20% is a good high-end proposition. Five games is a lot to stake the competition, even if it is just the Friars and their for-the-love-of-God-do-any-of-these-people-hit offense.
2006-07-31 21:47:38
20.   StolenMonkey86
20% because there are 5 teams in the division
2006-07-31 21:48:12
21.   Voxter
18 - A little bit. Mostly I'm surprised that nude pictures of Denise Richards were supposed to be arousing.
2006-07-31 21:48:43
22.   Sam DC
Doesn't look good for Floyd Landis' "I just have a lot of testerone" defense.
2006-07-31 21:50:00
23.   Voxter
17 - Oh my God, he looks like an unholy cross between Michael & LaToya Jackson in that picture, with a little bit of Lord Voldemort from the fourth Harry Potter film thrown in for good measure.
2006-07-31 21:51:28
24.   Greg Brock
23 Let's leave the Dark Lord out of this. He can hear you. His minions are everywhere.
2006-07-31 21:51:30
25.   D4P
Looks like he's gonna have to switch over to the "I just have a lot of synthetic testerone" defense.
2006-07-31 21:51:40
26.   BlueCrew Bruin
Well, apparently those pics were not of Denise Richards at all...

"There also were two nude photos of Denise Richardson." :)

2006-07-31 21:52:27
27.   BlueCrew Bruin
Darn. How does one do bold text here?
2006-07-31 21:53:47
28.   Greg Brock
27 put whatever you want boldenated in between asteriks. *
2006-07-31 21:54:43
29.   BlueCrew Bruin
Ah. Thanks!
2006-07-31 21:55:01
30.   Steve
28 -- That's my second favorite word of the day.
2006-07-31 21:55:38
31.   Greg S
Boldenated? I thought it was embiggened.
2006-07-31 21:56:32
32.   Sam DC
26 Aha/oops. Unf. I have no idea who Denise Richardson is.

Denise Richards is the one married or formerly married to Charlie Sheen, right?

2006-07-31 21:58:04
33.   Voxter
The King of Pop:

The Crown Princess of Same:


And, for reference, the link listed above:

Don't tell me there isn't something elemental and deeply wrong going on here.

2006-07-31 21:58:22
34.   Jon Weisman
The leapfrogging of four teams is much less of an issue when there's two months to go in the season and you play them all. It really only comes into play when time is running out and you can't control your own destiny, even with a small deficit.

6 - Thanks. That's basically how I navigate these waters now.

2006-07-31 22:00:03
35.   Voxter
Denise Richards is the one married or formerly married to Charlie Sheen, right?

Formerly. Word is he divorced her when he became aware of the fact that she contained fewer organic parts than what he put up his nose on a regular basis.

2006-07-31 22:02:36
36.   StolenMonkey86
33 - LOL! That is awesome!
2006-07-31 22:05:30
37.   Bob Timmermann
Mr. Sheen and Ms. Richards have not had their divorce made final yet. They are still working out many details about child support.

I look through news stories on this topic to keep people informed!

Denise Richards is dating Richie Sambora while Charlie Sheen is dating Brooke Mueller, a real estate agent.

I do not know if Ms. Mueller pronounces her surname as "Miller." I will get on that.

2006-07-31 22:06:05
38.   Sam DC
Nationals trying hard to give a 10-4 game back to SF. Bases loaded no outs bottom 8th.
2006-07-31 22:09:44
39.   Eric Enders
Well, I'm finally going to my first Dodger game of the year tomorrow. Weather report says the heat index is supposed to be a toasty 106. I'm sure it will be a thoroughly sweaty and pleasant experience.

Like, um, dating.

2006-07-31 22:10:01
40.   Greg Brock
33 I keep telling you to leave the Dark Lord out of this...HE'LL RUIN US ALL!
2006-07-31 22:10:20
41.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Depending on the methods employed, BPro has the Dodgers with either a 14.8 or 12.2 percent chance to make the postseason.
2006-07-31 22:13:07
42.   StolenMonkey86
Its over in Vegas, and Kuo gets the win.

Mark Alexander pitched 2 innings of no-hit ball with 2 walks and 5 strikeouts.

Kuo's game score was 61.

Kemp: 4-4, 3B, 2 R, 2 RBI
Young: 2-4, 2 RBI
LaRoche: 2-3, BB

Andy LaRoche started 5 double plays. One was a 5-3, the other four 5-4-3.

2006-07-31 22:13:40
43.   Bob Timmermann

I hope the Queen City is ready for Eric. That revamped Reds bullpen will be fearsome.

It has Gary Majewski in it after all.

2006-07-31 22:13:55
44.   Sam DC
10-7 Nationals. Two on. Bonds up. Unclear if Frodo Baggins will be left in to pitch to him.
2006-07-31 22:15:17
45.   Sam DC
Cordero in to face Bonds.
2006-07-31 22:16:55
46.   Greg Brock
Bonds has warning track power...WHEW!
2006-07-31 22:17:08
47.   Bob Timmermann
Duane Kuiper gets very excited over every fly ball that Bonds hits.
2006-07-31 22:18:22
48.   Sam DC
Bonds ran the count full then hit one of the gameday "red dot on the centerfield wall" flyouts to end the threat.
2006-07-31 22:18:49
49.   Greg Brock

Caught three steps in front of the warning track.

2006-07-31 22:19:07
50.   Voxter
47 - Some people get very angry about every fly ball that Bonds hits. I'll take excited every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-31 22:20:35
51.   Eric Enders
"Andy LaRoche started 5 double plays."

I would be shocked -- and not in the Captain Renault sense -- if that's not a record of some kind.

2006-07-31 22:22:44
52.   StolenMonkey86
46 - my sentiments exactly
2006-07-31 22:23:16
53.   Eric Enders
43 I'm going to all three games and near record-setting temperatures are expected each day. The good news is I'll probably return home 10 pounds lighter.
2006-07-31 22:24:04
54.   StolenMonkey86
Soriano's feeling generous now. Baseballs for everyone!

No he's not going Milton Bradley, just fouling them off.

2006-07-31 22:24:33
55.   Bob Timmermann
One major league third baseman has started five DPs in a game, Denny Walling of Houston.

2006-07-31 22:24:56
56.   StolenMonkey86
and right after I say that, he takes a ball, then swings and misses
2006-07-31 22:25:14
57.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
51 - "Your twin killings, sir."
2006-07-31 22:25:50
58.   D4P
Duane Kuiper : Every fly ball Bonds hits :: Charlie Steiner : Every fly ball anyone hits
2006-07-31 22:27:57
59.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
58 - John Sterling : Every time Jeter breathes.
2006-07-31 22:28:40
60.   Voxter
57 - Stellar work. Wish I'd had the wit.
2006-07-31 22:29:57
61.   Voxter
59 - Sterling is nothing compared to Ahmad Rashad in Michael Jordan's heyday. I used to wait for anchormen to toss to "Ahmad Rashad, our man on Jordan's jock."
2006-07-31 22:30:24
62.   StolenMonkey86
57 - a gold star, indeed
2006-07-31 22:30:38
63.   Bob Timmermann
John Sterling gets out a stethoscope:

"Take a breath."
Patient inhales
"No, take it DEEP! Take it FAR!"
Patient does it
"You've got heartdisease! Heartdisease! Heartdisease! You'regonnadie! You'regonnadie! You'regonnadie BWAHAHBWAHAH!"

2006-07-31 22:31:22
64.   Greg Brock
Hillenbrand just had about four of the most God-Awful swings in the history of the sport. One on (second), one out in San Fran.
2006-07-31 22:31:58
65.   underdog
Yep, once again Shea Hillenbrand comes through in the klutz.
2006-07-31 22:32:31
66.   Greg Brock
And a Hitchcock thriller breaks out in Frisco.

About a hundred seagulls have descended on the stadium. Two out.

2006-07-31 22:33:17
67.   StolenMonkey86
Hillenbrand struck out swinging. He's got a stellar .606 OPS in July.
2006-07-31 22:33:40
68.   Bluebleeder87
another Giant loss is good news in deed.
2006-07-31 22:34:19
69.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
66 - Hitch is putting in his cameo near a garlic fries stand.
2006-07-31 22:34:31
70.   Greg Brock
Strike three. Ballgame over.
2006-07-31 22:34:51
71.   Eric Stephen
I don't know if this was brought up in the other trade threads, but this is from the LA Times article about the Dodgers' Monday trades:

"Maddux went 5-0 in April but is 4-11 since then. According to Stats Inc., the only pitchers to start at least 12 games since May 1 and post a lower winning percentage are Mark Hendrickson (3-11) and Jae Seo (2-7). Colletti traded Seo for Hendrickson last month."

There's something almost poetic about that.

2006-07-31 22:34:59
72.   StolenMonkey86
K for Greene. Thank you, Chad Cordero, for shutting down the Giants.
2006-07-31 22:35:03
73.   Eric Enders
61 Ahmad Rashad's nephew used to be a big prospect in the Dodger system. Same name as a famous filmmaker. Nate's probably too young to remember but I'll bet someone else does.
2006-07-31 22:36:18
74.   Steve
Shea Hillenbrand did change the balance of power in the NL West, and not in a terribly surprising way.
2006-07-31 22:36:46
75.   Greg Brock
73 Roman Polanski?
2006-07-31 22:37:42
76.   Eric Stephen
73 Michael Moore, nephew of Bobby?
2006-07-31 22:38:40
77.   Steve
Ed Wood Jr.
2006-07-31 22:40:07
78.   Jon Weisman
71 - I noticed that. I also noticed the part where the Dodgers were said to have soured on Guzman in part because they could not decide where to play him. As if that were his fault.
2006-07-31 22:40:31
79.   Greg Brock
Drat, I knew it was either Michael Moore or Akira Kurosawa.
2006-07-31 22:42:37
80.   Voxter
76 - I'll bet that's it. Bobby Moore was famous at the U of O for being extremely fast but scared as hell of getting hit. Or at least, that's what my old man says. They were in school at the same time, if I recall.
2006-07-31 22:43:00
81.   Eric Enders
76 is correct.
2006-07-31 22:43:09
82.   Eric Stephen
So, who is the odd man out on the Dodgers' 25-man roster now? Cruz? Ledee? Beimel? Carrara? Someone has to be removed from the 25-man to activate Lugo before tomorrow night's game.

I haven't seen any mention of that an any of the various articles, nor have I seen indication as to when Maddux will pitch.

My guess is they start Sele Tuesday, then just skip him and make him the long man in the pen.

2006-07-31 22:44:37
83.   trainwreck article said Maddux is starting Thursday, when Billingsley was supposed to start.

Draw whatever conclusions you may.

2006-07-31 22:45:19
84.   Greg Brock
78 I wish Joel the best of luck, but I'm not sure sending him to Durham, with Elijiah Dukes and Delmon Young, is the best thing for him. At least Upton got promoted, so maybe shooting your mouth off really isn't a big deal around there.
2006-07-31 22:49:43
85.   Eric Stephen
83 Thanks, trainwreck.

It seems Billingsley is the odd man out here, and thus is the most likely to be sent down before tomorrow's game. 6.8 walks per 9 is bad for job security.

Hopefully Chad will be back soon.

2006-07-31 22:52:01
86.   thinkblue0

I'd much rather have Billingsley out there instead of Hendrickson.

I'm still irritated that Lofton is on this team.

2006-07-31 22:52:48
87.   King of the Hobos
83 The conclusion I want to draw is Penny pitches tomorrow, Billingsley on Wednesday, and Maddux on Thursday. Because of today's off day, that would work with everyone on normal rest (and Penny would actually have an extra day, rather than the 2 he'd get if he started Wednesday).
2006-07-31 22:53:33
88.   Vaudeville Villain

They shouldn't have spoken out so boldldy, but I sort of understand what they're saying.

Tampa Bay has been irrelevant for years, following the Pittsburgh Pirate model of blocking prospects with aging veterans, and now they have some genuine good young players. (No Gathright talk, and yes, I know he can jump over a car.) So what do they do? Leave them in AAA.

What for? Just bring them all up and let them get experience. They're not going anywhere anyway.

2006-07-31 22:54:28
89.   dzzrtRatt
One thing is true: The Dodgers had a better deadline-trading experience than any of their NL West rivals. We got the better third baseman. And we didn't take any Pirates. We had more prospects to give than anyone except Arizona, and we only gave away one real one.

To answer Jon's question: I'm a fan. Of course I want them to compete down to the wire every year. But it seems like right now the stars are aligned for the Dodgers to build a stronger team in the near future, and I wouldn't want them to sacrifice that, even if I knew it meant we'd finish at .500 or lower in a particular year.

What I think it comes down to is PR. Look how Pat Gillick is dealing with the Abreu trade. And he's flying right in the face of supposedly unreasonable fans, just telling them "we're not close."

But I don't think there is as big a disconnect as some think. If you did a poll, I think a large percentage of fans would say they are aware the Dodgers have a lot of talent in the minors that we should be optimistic about. Vinny talks about it, it's on talk-radio, it's in the papers. Everyone understands Ned's dilemma (except Plaschke).

I think the pressure on Ned to win now is coming more from players like Kent, Nomar, Drew, Lowe and Penny, and their agents. I think they felt like they were made certain promises. They want the glory, and they want it before they get too old or hurt.

One thing I learned in politics. Certain people have "bugging rights." They don't always get what they want, but they always get an audience. Eventually, if someone wants something enough, and bugs the boss about it enough, they might get it. Agents for veteran players like Kent have bugging rights with the GM. "Jeff is going to be very disappointed if..." Ned has to deal with that.

2006-07-31 22:59:47
90.   Vaudeville Villain
I'd like to address one thing about this trade that I think is being argued past.

Nobody is saying that Julio Lugo sucks. (Okay, someone did.)

He is however, playing WAY over his head and out of step with his career numbers. His career numbers are the same as Rafael Furcal's, offensively. Considering the high level Lugo is playing at, we are looking at receiving the bulk of Lugo's regression to the mean.

2006-07-31 23:00:08
91.   Berkeley Doug
I haven't read through all the comments about the trades yet and haven't really formed any opinion, but I can say as a long time admirer of Gred Madddux, even though he may be a shadow of his former self, I can't wait to see him in a Dodger uniform.
2006-07-31 23:02:41
92.   Greg Brock
88 One thing I try to explain to people, and probably not effectively, is that Andrew Friedman and the new front office people are not the same group of Chuck LaMar nightmares that controlled that team for almost a decade. It's a completely new regime in Tampa, and one which should give Rays fans (are there Rays fans?) hope.

Those kids need to understand that nothing is promised, and that they do what the organization says. Period. The vets on that team were pretty upset.

2006-07-31 23:06:18
93.   Berkeley Doug
OT - But is there anything more exciting right now than a David Ortiz at bat with the game on the line?
2006-07-31 23:08:08
94.   StolenMonkey86
90 - regression to the mean, or contract year?
2006-07-31 23:08:57
95.   thinkblue0
looking at the schedule, we've got a big few weeks ahead of us. Facing all our division rivals, plus the Reds twice who lead the wild card race.

whether you agree with the deals or not, let's hope that Lugo and Maddux put up some good numbers for us.

2006-07-31 23:09:38
96.   StolenMonkey86
93 - watching Mark Hendrickson fall. And then watch Bill Plaschke lose to Woody Paige as Plaschke defended the balk call on Around the Horn
2006-07-31 23:12:17
97.   Vaudeville Villain

I don't disagree with you, but I don't imagine that most minor league players are really very cognizant of changes in general management.

All they know, is that they've been tearing up the minor leagues for a significant stretch now, and I believe one even voiced displeasure last season that he wasn't called up.

Just because a prospect voices his displeasure that he hasn't been called up yet doesn't mean he should be, but really, why haven't they all been called up yet?

2006-07-31 23:14:28
98.   Daniel Zappala
By the way, if you haven't read this LA Times article on the worst sports TV deal ever made, you have to read this:

I was simply astonished.

2006-07-31 23:14:29
99.   Steve
His career numbers are the same as Rafael Furcal's, offensively.


2006-07-31 23:17:06
100.   Daniel Zappala
89 You easily have the two best posts of the night. Geez, start your own blog or something. ;-)
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-31 23:17:12
101.   Xeifrank
A playoff series (7 games at most) is a crapshoot at the major league level. Take a look at all the wild card teams that have made and won the world series. Given that the playoffs are a crapshoot and it may only take 85 wins to win your division (qualify for the playoffs) that's all that is really needed. Sure, it would be nice to be a 100 win team but it's not an easy feat. The Dodgers and the other teams in the NL West are in quite a unique situation given the parity of the division.
vr, Xei
2006-07-31 23:17:14
102.   Greg Brock
The Rays truly are, in that division, dwarfed. They have to maintain the rights to their players for as long as possible, before the Red Sox, Yankees, and Orioles sign them six years from now.

In Delmon Young's case, he was close to a promotion before he decide to javelin a bat, nearly impaling an umpire. Upton is a mess in the field, and is being switched to third base, and becoming acclimated to the position. He's now up in Tampa. And in Elijiah Duke's case, I hate to label people, but I'm going to. He's a flat out thug. I have a friend in high A in the D-Rays organization, and the word throughout is that he's a major blowup waiting to happen. Not counting the umpire he already headbutted.

2006-07-31 23:19:12
103.   natepurcell
is it okay to come back now?
2006-07-31 23:21:02
104.   Greg Brock
Hey Nate. I think the outrage has dialed down. Some of us hunkered down over at The Griddle.
2006-07-31 23:21:55
105.   Rob M
One comment on Lugo - it seems the people that are calling Lugo "crap" are looking at his career averages and using that as a yardstick for current and future results. Isn't it fair to say that he's a far better player today than he was as a part time youngster in Houston? We don't use Maddux's career averages to evaluate his value today, so why do that with Lugo? He's a very good hitter and I expect his performance will win people over pretty quickly. I thought we could get more for Guzman, and I would have loved to package him for Zito or the equivalent, but none of us know what his real value was on the open market.

On the other hand, the D Rays seem not to mind stockpiling blocked talent on their AAA team. Assuming Guzman, Young and Dukes are all outfielder/DH types, what do they do with them and Baldelli, Gomes, and Crawford? Is BJ going to move to OF too? It's a nice problem to have as long as you have room on the 40 man roster.

2006-07-31 23:23:03
106.   Steve
Sorry I got after you Nate. I've reconciled myself to constant mediocrity and feel much better now.
2006-07-31 23:23:39
107.   Vaudeville Villain
I thought almost everyone was fairly even-keeled about it, but whatever. It is a sports blog, after all.
2006-07-31 23:25:39
108.   StolenMonkey86
From Tuesday's LA Times

The Boston Red Sox discussed trading second baseman Mark Loretta to the St. Louis Cardinals and replacing him with Lugo, but the Red Sox backed away when they became aware Lugo had little interest in playing second base.

Colletti said he had not spoken with Lugo, but was under the impression he would play second base "as long as he's viewed as a shortstop when he hits the market" as a free agent this fall.

Colletti knew he was getting a rental and has no intention of keeping Lugo.

2006-07-31 23:27:34
109.   regfairfield
108 Me thinks this might be an issue.
2006-07-31 23:28:55
110.   Steve
108 - That makes me feel better too.
2006-07-31 23:29:11
111.   natepurcell

its okay steve. no bad feelings. we all are on the same team here.

As I was 10 hours ago, I am still perplexed that Kenny Lofton is still on this roster.

2006-07-31 23:29:35
112.   Xeifrank
108. Colletti should use NetFlix or better yet DRaysFlix next time.

On a side note, I thought it was interesting that Jeff Kent stopped A.Martinez in the elevator and asked him to explain the Julio Lugo trade to him.

vr, Xei

2006-07-31 23:30:03
113.   Uncle Miltie
103- nate I read what you wrote about the Lugo trade and I sort of agree with you. Here's what I wrote in the other thread:

I'm not as down on the Lugo trade as others. I suggested that we offer Guzman and Izturis for Soriano because we would get 2 months out of Soriano and then get 2 draft picks in the offseason when he bolts for FA. Lugo is not on Soriano's level, but he will be the best available SS on the free agent market and is a type A free agent, therefore he will net us 2 draft picks. The question is, what kind of impact is Lugo going to make on the team. If Kent is indeed out for most of the year and Lugo can post around an .800 OPS (give or take a few points), this can turn out to be a pretty decent deal, but that is also on the condition that the Dodgers make the playoffs.

I'm completely against the Maddux deal. I think Maddux is capable of posting the type of numbers that he has accumulated the past 2-3 seasons, but he won't be a significant improvement over Sele (I'm assuming that he'll be removed from the rotation). I felt that Colletti undersold Izturis. The Pirates were reportedly interested in Izturis and might have offer the Oliver Perez/Roberto Hernandez package that they gave up for a younger version of Olmedo Saenz in Xavier Nady. If there wasn't a great deal out there now, then Ned could have waited until the offseason when a number of teams will be looking for a new SS.

I still don't understand why Lofton is on the roster. He should be DFA ASAP.

If the Dodgers don't make the playoffs this year, these two moves will be a gigantic failure and Ned should start thinking about pursuing a career in a different profession Making the playoffs is important because of that $25 million payout that given to teams for making the postseason.

2006-07-31 23:30:54
114.   natepurcell
Unless Colletti wants to trade furcal for Oswalt or something, then Lugo should only be a rental and the legacy of JtD will rest in the magical hands of Logan White and his two first round draft picks.
2006-07-31 23:32:02
115.   D4P
As I was 4 months ago, I am still perplexed that Kenny Lofton is still on this roster
2006-07-31 23:33:40
116.   natepurcell

I was a little bit against the Maddux deal when I first heard it but after 10 hours to think it over, its not that big of a deal anymore. Like others have pointed out, the 4 million that izturis is owed next year can be put in the "By the Dodgers an all star pitcher Barry Zito/Jason Schmidt fund"

2006-07-31 23:34:13
117.   natepurcell
and By "by", I mean buy. Now the joke isn't even funny.
2006-07-31 23:34:27
118.   StolenMonkey86
I still don't understand why Lofton is on the roster. He should be DFA ASAP

He can pinch hit and pinch run. Cruz can be a late inning replacement, as he's not bad defensively. I think Ledee may be on his way out, though.

On a side note, I thought it was interesting that Jeff Kent stopped A.Martinez in the elevator and asked him to explain the Julio Lugo trade to him.

Heh, really? That's pretty funny. Did A share his explanation?

2006-07-31 23:35:34
119.   StolenMonkey86
114 - They're in good hands.

Here's hoping the Royals spend big and go after him.

2006-07-31 23:35:44
120.   Uncle Miltie
I can't wait until the Dodgers ask Kent to move over to 1B.

"I'm a future hall of famer, you expect me to move over? Look at my credentials!"

If all goes well, maybe Kent will demand a trade.

2006-07-31 23:37:25
121.   bigcpa
Hey look- Nate the prospect hater!
2006-07-31 23:37:53
122.   Vaudeville Villain

Career averages are very instructive for a player like Lugo, especially since he is 30, and very few players suddenly become better at the age of 30. We don't use Maddux's career numbers because he is almost 40, at which point players noticeably depreciate in value. (See Steve Finley, Barry Bonds, etc.)

Also, it is incorrect to say that Lugo was a "part-time" player in Houston. His number of AB's year by year:

2000 (Hou)- 420
2001 (Hou)- 513
2002 (Hou)- 322
2003 (Hou)- 65
2003 (TB)- 433
2004 (TB)- 581
2005 (TB)- 616
2006 (TB)- 289

Throughout these years his career OPS is .751 and has been remarkably stable. Aside from this year, his OPS has never gone more than 30 points over .750, and never less than 50 points under .750.

When a player is this stable throughout his career, warning flags should be raised in the event of such a great year.


I agree that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, Red Sox, are the juggernauts of that division. The problem for Tampa is that this paradigm will always be the case, so you might as well make a stab at it now, while you still have all this talent together.

2006-07-31 23:37:56
123.   natepurcell

No, we dont want the royals getting lugo! Royals first pick will be protected because they suck so much (kind like ours if we ended the season today). Best hope is that the 16th worst team in the majors sign Lugo.

I think hes going to go to the Red Sox anyways in the offseason.

2006-07-31 23:38:28
124.   Uncle Miltie
119- if one of the bottom 14-15 (can't remember) teams signs a type A free agent, then they don't lose their first round draft pick. They lose their 2nd, 3rd, and so on.
2006-07-31 23:38:36
125.   StolenMonkey86
If all goes well, maybe Kent will demand a trade.

Delwyn Young's stock rises higher

2006-07-31 23:40:31
126.   natepurcell

Young is strictly an outfielder now. He doesn't play 2b anymore. Although, its not like he really did anyways (har har har).

2006-07-31 23:40:45
127.   StolenMonkey86
123, 124 - Oh, well in that case, I hope the, um, hey we can take Boston's draft picks. They owe us a little more, though, because of all the Dodgers did to help them win the world series
2006-07-31 23:41:50
128.   Steve
111 - I just want something real coming back. I'm tired of this fake crap that comes back to us regressing to the mean with a bullet and killing trees with meaningless press releases. How many times are we going to get this "wighth best lefthander in the American League" garbage? What if Lugo actually has two good months? Do we get Randy Winned?
2006-07-31 23:43:28
129.   StolenMonkey86
126 - that's disappointing. So I guess Betemit moves to 2nd and LaRoche (should we call him 5?) makes it to the show
2006-07-31 23:44:02
130.   Eric Enders
Ideally we want a team like Cincinnati or the Giants to sign Lugo -- a team good enough that they don't have one of the first 15 picks, so we get their first rounder. But bad enough that it's a pick toward the middle of the first round rather than at the end of it.
2006-07-31 23:47:49
131.   King of the Hobos
I believe Texas is 15th currently, although that figures to change. Cincinnati, Boston, the Mets, St Louis, Toronto, and the White Sox all would figure to be interested in Lugo, and they are all in the top 15 teams.
2006-07-31 23:47:50
132.   overkill94
105 I'm with you on that one. According to a lot of people around here, guys can never improve. Is it a contract year push? Slight swing adjustment? Did something just finally click? Whatever it is, Lugo has been performing very well this year and I don't see any good reason why he can't keep it up.
2006-07-31 23:48:15
133.   natepurcell

good point and I feel your pain thats why I never said I clearly liked this deal. I dont understand Colletti's fetish with dealing with Tampa Bay; although Lugo is different then the baez's and hendricksons and lance carters. Lugo is actually a pretty good baseball player, hes been one for the last couple of years now. This year he is showing to be a complete player- all 5 tools. I still dont want to sign him long term unless Furcal goes somewhere else. Next year, Betemit should be at 2b with Laroche at 3b full time. Kent can go to a "contender" if he wants and Nomar can be on the DL for some other team.

2006-07-31 23:51:19
134.   natepurcell
Also, Lugo has had a high doubles rate in 2004-2005 and its not unusual for doubles to turn into homeruns as a player reaches his prime. Lugo is also a player that will probably age well. He has good contact rates, good athleticism and good basepath instincts. Although his 32-36 years will be decline years, they wont be a sharper decline then say someone like an Adam Dunn.
2006-07-31 23:53:28
135.   Steve
133 - We've been to this well twice. It happens the same way every time. People keep telling me how decent these guys are. And then they aren't. And then, while they do their three stooges routine at Dodger Stadium, people still tell me they are decent. And they just aren't. They are terrible. They are killing us. And at a certain point, one just has enough of it.
2006-07-31 23:55:17
136.   natepurcell
Plaschke's piece is up!
2006-07-31 23:57:37
137.   natepurcell
While Lugo is a natural shortstop, he can play second base, and will do so while Jeff Kent is ailing. His presence will allow Kent to play first base if Garciaparra remains hurt. And if both men come back, heck, put Lugo in center field to spell the inconsistent Kenny Lofton.

Can he play the outfield?

2006-07-31 23:58:55
138.   Vaudeville Villain

Is that from Plaschke? Isn't he the reporter? Shouldn't he know those kind of things?

2006-07-31 23:59:36
139.   Uncle Miltie
136- unfortunately I read it. It's addicting like crack; you know it's bad for you, but you keep on doing it.

So what are the chances that Kent is traded. I'm sure he would pass through waivers with his humungous contract. I think the Red Sox are the one team that would be interested. Rudy Seanez for Jeff Kent?

2006-08-01 00:01:36
140.   JoeyP
I've reconciled myself to constant mediocrity and feel much better now

Acceptance, followed by general apathy, does tend to take life's troubles away.

When expectations have been so lowered as to rejoice when the team doesnt get totally ripped off, its time to accept it and move on.

Move on to another team.

2006-08-01 00:02:22
141.   Xeifrank
interesting post on G.Maddux as a Dodger over at FantasyBaseballCafe.Com Wonder how close his projections for Maddux as a Dodger will be. vr, Xei
The ballpark will definitely help Maddux.

Here's my projections based on the ballpark factors and the way Maddux is currently pitching as well as the Dodgers ytd offensive performance:

5.5 k/9, 1.6 bb/9, 0.89 hr/9
3.60 era, 1.223 whip
3.96 runs against / 9, 4.99 runs for / 9, xWin% 0.614

I'd expect 10 starts in the 57 remaining games on the conservative side. Maddux averages about 6.2ip per start right now so here are those numbers projected to the actual stats:

10gs, 62ip, 38k, 11bb, 6hr
Expected decisions: 62 / 8.25 = 7.515 (round up to 8)
Expected Dodgers record: 5-3 with 2 ND

2006-08-01 00:04:07
142.   natepurcell

Devil Rays have room for you on their welcome wagon.

2006-08-01 00:04:20
143.   Steve
There's only been one GM that made me want to root for another team, and it's not Ned Colletti.
2006-08-01 00:12:47
144.   bigcpa
From the St. Pete Times...

"Friedman talked recently with several teams about Lugo, most specifically Toronto, but not the Dodgers. He decided to call them around 1 p.m. (EST) to see if they had interest, and when general manager Ned Colletti said he did things moved quickly, with the deal sealed around 3:45."

2006-08-01 00:14:54
145.   StolenMonkey86
one Dodgers GM? because I could see Dave Littlefield making you not want to root for the Pirates.
2006-08-01 00:16:26
146.   trainwreck
I would be an alcoholic if I were a Pirates fan.
2006-08-01 00:18:30
147.   natepurcell
It's also hard to believe that the Los Angeles Dodgers would trade 26-year-old shortstop Cesar Izturis, a 2005 All-Star, to have Maddux for the stretch run. Credit both Maddux's stature and the deal-making skills of Jim Hendry for bringing the Cubs the best return of any of baseball's sellers at the deadline for waiver-free trades.


2006-08-01 00:19:23
148.   natepurcell

So basically Colletti had no idea what he was doing.

2006-08-01 00:20:43
149.   trainwreck
Izturis is clearly better than Carlos Lee and Bobby Abreu.
2006-08-01 00:21:08
150.   Uncle Miltie
Orlando Hudson had a pretty amazing game last night
2-3 2 HR (one from each side of the plate, one of them being a GS) 6 RBI 2 BB 1 SB 2 web gems

He also committed an error

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-01 00:21:55
151.   trainwreck
I guess I give him some credit for being able to do a deal so fast.

Is that even a good thing?

2006-08-01 00:23:22
152.   bigcpa
148 Well it doesn't appear Lugo was part of some master plan.
2006-08-01 00:24:53
153.   StolenMonkey86
Lugo is there to buy time for LaRoche. The master plan is for Ethier to get ROY this year, and for LaRoche or Kemp to get ROY next year
2006-08-01 00:25:21
154.   StolenMonkey86
And for all those people who believe I'm not capable of complimenting the Dodgers for a job well done, congrats to them on getting Greg Maddux, who might prove to be a better pinch-hitter than Jose Cruz down the stretch.

- TJ Simers

2006-08-01 00:25:40
155.   overkill94
144 Kinda reminds me of a recent fantasy baseball trade I made. A guy wanting to dump offered me Orlando Cabrera and Pudge Rodriguez for Maicer Izturis, Jonny Gomes, and Dioner Navarro. I clicked "accept" so quickly that I didn't realize I already had Jhonny Peralta and Jason Bartlett (who only qualifty at SS), so one of them would have to sit on the bench while I had no one to play CI (where I had Izturis).

Then again, I still kicked butt in the trade, unlike Colletti.

2006-08-01 00:25:58
156.   Uncle Miltie
In Izturis, the Cubs have landed themselves an excellent all-around player who could be their shortstop through 2008, at least. He won a Gold Glove in 2004 and began '05 as one of baseball's best hitters, collecting 75 hits through May—the first Dodger to do that in the era of divisional play.
I have few Izturis cards lying around somewhere. I hope Cubs fans feel the same way about Izturis as Phil Rogers does.
2006-08-01 00:27:15
157.   Steve
147, 149 -- Carlos Lee and Bobby Abreu were not acquired by sellers. I'm trying to think of any "sellers" that did better than Izturis. Pittsburgh got jack-squat, as Chris Farley would say. So did Philadelphia. So did Kansas City. So did Cleveland.

This is, of course, key, because of this sentence:

The only organization that came close was the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, who not coincidentally also dealt with the Dodgers.

Which is, not coincidentally, true.

2006-08-01 00:28:30
158.   natepurcell

Nationals with the middle relievers for two starting players trade.

2006-08-01 00:32:15
159.   Steve
158 - True. The only trade in history where the sellers won the trade.
2006-08-01 00:33:21
160.   StolenMonkey86
159 - Wasn't Delino Deshields a salary dump?
2006-08-01 00:35:22
161.   dzzrtRatt
I think this line from the Plaschke column says many DT commenters, and Jon you too, should get your gloves and go try out for the Dodgers. Because, according to Plaschke:

As long as he (Maddux) can still think, he can still pitch.

It reminds of the joke about the guy who had a hand injury. The doctor operates and the guy wakes up and says, "Doc, will I be able to play the piano?" And the doctors says, Yes! And the patient says, "Great. I've always wanted to be able to play a musical instrument."

2006-08-01 00:37:32
162.   natepurcell
just saw that Kemp went 4-4 today.

Why couldnt Guzman hit like that? Maybe he would still be with us if he had.

2006-08-01 00:38:17
163.   StolenMonkey86
160 - That it wasn't a deadline trade makes it even worse.
2006-08-01 00:47:05
164.   JoeyP
Cub fans will enjoy Cedeno, Pitcher, Pierre, Izturis every game.
2006-08-01 00:50:08
165.   StolenMonkey86
Ken Gurnick's first answer to the question in the Mailbag is great
2006-08-01 00:50:34
166.   trainwreck
Does the Ryan Shealy deal count as a sellers deal for the Royals? I think that was a good move. Bautista has a good arm, but he may have been ruined.
2006-08-01 00:58:24
167.   Greg Brock
Bob put a really good trade roundup together over at The Griddle. A comprehensive tally of all the moves.
2006-08-01 01:25:57
168.   Greg Brock
And in other news, of the non-baseball variety, Heath Ledger was signed to play The Joker in Chris Nolan's Batman sequel, "The Dark Knight".

Just thought you'd like to know. Probably not.

2006-08-01 01:27:39
169.   Eric L
168 Hey, that's cool news to me. I love the direction that Nolan went with in "Batman Begins". After further review, BB was the best of the Batman movies by far.
2006-08-01 01:35:25
170.   Greg Brock
169 Agreed. And while I don't really see Ledger as The Joker, Nolan has earned the trust of fans with his casting decisions and direction. If they play The Joker as total psychopath, I can kind of see it. We shall see.
2006-08-01 01:45:50
171.   Eric L
170 I didn't see Christian Bale as Batman/Bruce Wayne but I think that he was the best "combo". I'll give Nolan my trust as well.
2006-08-01 01:56:42
172.   Telemachos
Ledger's gonna be awesome. They apparently have said they're going with the Joker from the graphic novels (psychopath) as opposed to the Joker of the other movies (goofy guy who occasionally kills someone).

The new movie's title is THE DARK KNIGHT, which is also cool (and a nice nod to Frank Miller).

We now return to our post-trade angst. Tar barrels on the left, feather buckets on the right.

2006-08-01 01:57:52
173.   Telemachos
168 geesh. Evidentally I can't even read complete sentences at this hour (didn't even see you mentioned the title already).
2006-08-01 02:42:47
174.   GoBears
101 A playoff series (7 games at most) is a crapshoot at the major league level. Take a look at all the wild card teams that have made and won the world series.

This is wrong. In a small sample of games or in a large sample of games, anything from one team winning them all to the other team doing so is possible, but all possible outcomes are not equally likely. In a small sample, the probability of the inferior team winning a series is higher than in a large sample, but that doesn't mean it's anything like 50/50.

If it's a crapshoot, the dice are still loaded in favor of the team that is truly better. How heavily loaded depends on how much better. We remember the upsets, but most of the time, the team expected to win does so.

(Or if you prefer a different twist on the metaphor, in a single roll of the dice, it's possible to roll an 11 on the first try, but a 7 is much more likely.)

2006-08-01 02:52:27
175.   GoBears
132 According to a lot of people around here, guys can never improve. Is it a contract year push? Slight swing adjustment? Did something just finally click? Whatever it is, Lugo has been performing very well this year and I don't see any good reason why he can't keep it up.

Well, first of all, that's a straw man. No one has, as far as I've seen, ever taken the position that a player can't improve. In fact, all the love for prospects is about upside, i.e., projected (or hoped for) improvement.

But we know that hitters, on average, peak between 26 and 28. That hasn't changed over the years. Now, that's an average. There are certainly anomalies. Guys who peak later and guys who peak earlier. Might Lugo be a late-peak guy? Sure. But it's much more probable, given that there hasn't been steady improvement to this point, that this year is anomalous. And the best projection (most likely to be correct, but by no means guaranteed to be correct) is regression to his average level of performance.

We have to be careful about how we say things, and how we characterize what others are saying, or conversation is pointless. It's possible that Lugo just made a leap at age 30. That would make him rare among major leaguers (already at the tail of the distribution in terms of talent). It's therefore much more probable that he has just had good luck so far this year (over and above his true talents). We can hope it continues for 2 more months, but we'd be bucking the odds to bet on it.

2006-08-01 06:44:19
176.   Andrew Shimmin
So, I've read every single comment, now. Did any one like the Lugo/Guzman trade? Lots of people hated how much other people didn't like it, but did anybody think it was, on the merits, a good deal? Lots of rationalization about it's not so bad, or it isn't necessarily bad, or there's no way to tell if it'll be bad, but I don't think I saw one post saying it's not bad, and here's why.
2006-08-01 06:50:50
177.   savetheblues
From the devil rays organization(the onlyinside source I have), this is what happened with the trade. Colletti called Friedman asking about Lugo, Friedman asked for Billingsley. It took Colletti a few to shy off Billingsley. Friedman then asked who would be available in the Dodger farm system, and Colletti immediately brought up Guzman. Perdora was thrown in because Friedman asked for more. The trade, as far as the Devil Rays were concerned, was the type of ______ A trade discussed in Moneyball. They've basically labeled Colletti a target now.
2006-08-01 07:33:11
178.   DodgerHobbit
177. You mean they didnt label him a mark after getting Navarro?...

Colletti is spraying talent at other teams like the Ying Yang Twins spray Cristal around in their videos.

I'm going to analyze that one in terms of the rebuild while winning-now paradigm Colletti is probably within. Everyone knows we have a deep farm. They know we can't keep all the prospects. We know we can't keep them all either. Seems to me Colletti concedes to overpaying to fix immediate needs even though who he gets is probably not even in the Dodgers' long term plans. Justifying it by repeating to himself over and over at first that, 'it wasn't a top prospect'...and then later at the deadline that, 'It wasn't one of our top prospects that produced well at the MLB level'. Add in that quote he made about every trade he tries to do pull a deal with asking for Billingsley and you have what Colletti sees as his predicament as a GM of a team with a good farm system.

That said there should be some guys that are still untouchable beyond the stated line of top prospects that did well during their cup of coffee (Guzman). I didn't like him much after seeing him being all sullen in Vegas, but it seems that an extra 30 minutes or so any GM worth his paycheck could talk down the D-Rays from one of your top 20 prospects to Delwyn Young. Guzman seemed like a chip not best used for 2 months of Lugo. Guzman seems more like a fire extinguisher behind glass with a clear message 'FOR USE IN EMERGENCY'.

With all of our middle infielders...this wasn't such an emergency.

We are a demonstrated mark over at least the Navarro and Guzman trades.

2006-08-01 07:36:05
179.   regfairfield
Friedman has pulled off as many good trades with Colletti in five months as Chuck LaMar was able to in his 10 year reign.
2006-08-01 07:48:52
180.   Sam DC
Tom Boswell has an interesting take on the Soriano non-deal. In essence, he sees the Nationals as playing a long game, and at this point in time they needed to establish negotiating credibility with other teams and also some goodwill with their fans, players, and future free-agents-to-be. Given that blow-me-away offers were not on the table for Sori, his view is that Bowden and Kasten is that those long term benefits plus the draft picks made more sense for the team.

There's a bit of penny psychology in it, but it's a good read. Also makes a useful counterpoint to the Colletti-as-mark meme being tossed around here.

One other Post plug -- at 11:00 am Pacific, Post national baseball writer Dave Sheinin will be on for a live chat at I've linked his stuff over here before; he's a very smart guy, a great writer, and is a good friend of the statminded fan. Probably be worth reading.

2006-08-01 07:51:38
181.   Eric Enders
So, for a film buff who dislikes the Batman films specifically and superhero films in general, is "Batman Begins" worth checking out anyway?
2006-08-01 08:01:17
182.   Xeifrank
174. Never said it was 50/50 (words in mouth), but just like you mentioned due to the extremely small sample size the variance in outcomes is much greater. Craps is not 50/50 either. :)
vr, Xei
2006-08-01 08:06:16
183.   Suffering Bruin
181 That's a tough call. I love superheroes and because of that I'm pretty hard on the films that are made about them. "Batman Begins" is, in my opinion, the best of the genre because there isn't an ounce of camp in it.
2006-08-01 08:14:20
184.   Andrew Shimmin
181- How do you feel about kung-fu movies? The first hour is more like one of those. The next six hours (at least, it felt like six) is standard superhero business. But you might like it better than I did.
2006-08-01 08:30:04
185.   Eric Enders
Not a big kung fu fan either. Generally, I'm just not a fan of films that emphasize action over dialogue. To me there's nothing more utterly boring in a film than an extended fight scene.

(Unless it involves lightsabers and was made when I was less than 10 years old.)

2006-08-01 08:36:24
186.   Steve
Rosenthal isn't even buying.

2006-08-01 08:42:59
187.   Sam DC
[thinking, why am I even writing this]

I object to calling the Penny/LoDuca deal "statistically motivated." The motivation for that deal was as plain vanilla old school baseball as there is: We need to get an Ace.

Sure, DePodesta analyzed statistics in picking which Ace to target and which players to give up, but calling the deal "statistically motivated" is just nonsensical.

Unless the "statistic" he's talking about is "wins."

OK, horse, I'm done with you now. What, it's dead? Well, just one last whack . . .

2006-08-01 08:47:33
188.   underdog
165 I just wrote a question for Ken Gurnick about the Dodgers continuing to deal with Tampa Bay - we'll see if he wants to answer it.
2006-08-01 08:59:09
189.   Andrew Shimmin
Finally relented to reading Plaschke. It's truly fantastic. He can't constrain himself to taking a clean hit even when the target is Izzy's bat! "Cesar Izturis. . . is a nice player who was exposed with a .216 batting average in the two months after last season's All-Star game appearance." It's like he's got an obsessive cheap-shot compulsion.
2006-08-01 09:12:29
190.   D4P
So, for a film buff who dislikes the Batman films specifically and superhero films in general, is "Batman Begins" worth checking out anyway?

Regarding, Batman, Superman, Spiderman, etc. etc. etc.: It amazes me that moviemakers can keep making the same movies over and over and over, and people keep going to see them over and over and over.

Why come up with a new idea when you can make millions just rehashing the same one over and over and over?

2006-08-01 09:13:04
191.   underdog
Old amigo Odalis Perez starts tonight for KC against Chicago WSox, for anyone with a masochistic (or sadistic?) bent.
2006-08-01 09:32:31
192.   Bluebleeder87
So, for a film buff who dislikes the Batman films specifically and superhero films in general, is "Batman Begins" worth checking out anyway?

Batman Begins IMO, was really good (worth checking out)

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