Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
Jon's other site:
Screen Jam
TV and more ...
1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
A natty side debate that emerged during deadline week is whether it's rewarding to go for a playoff spot even if your World Series hopes are grim. Is it enough of a thrill just to be nominated?
One of the original topics on Dodger Thoughts - in fact, it was Day 2 - addressed this:
Long before Fox made the absurd move of trading Piazza, reasonable minds would wonder what it would take for the Dodgers to elevate a perennial 90-game winning team into a team that could win a World Series. This legitimate approach has been erased by a philosophy of trying to build a team that can somehow sneak into the playoffs and maybe luck into a World Series, with the hope I guess that Kirk Gibson will limp to the plate at age 46 and homer. I have long advocated that the Dodgers go back to trying to build a legitimate World Series champion, through a solid farm system and solid trades, even if it means tearing the current team apart.For me, I'd be happy to be the George Mason in a postseason tourney if that's the best I can do in a given year. A division title is a thrill, and being the underdog is fun while it lasts. And the less a team has been in the playoffs in recent years, the more fans there are that will be happy just to be part of the party.This year's team has been more fun to watch, at least until two weeks ago, than any Dodger team for a while. But in my mind, it is not a team that you can tinker with to get over the top. It is a pretender, and while it still has the possibility to go far, it does not have the likelihood.
The current Dodgers should focus on returning to the first-half quality of play. They should celebrate the success whatever success they have this year. But when it comes to any transactions, their focus should still be on 2003 and beyond.
But when I see a team with the potential to do more, a team with one of the best young cores in the game and money to spend to plug holes, I am more than willing to sacrifice short-term pleasures for the chance at something more. (I learned that while dating.) And I say that knowing that failing to seize the moment can sometimes be the worst thing you can do. (Um, I learned that while dating, too.) Because sometimes, as the Dodgers are currently hoping, you really can have your cake and eat it too. (Yep. Dating.)
In the end, what can I say? For the things that matter, I choose to hold out when I can. I'd rather do the right thing. The better you build a team, the more division titles - let alone World Series titles - you have a realistic shot at. But that doesn't mean I don't look at the Carpe Diem gang with some occasional pangs.
The funny thing is that this debate is only going to get more interesting in future years. When the Dodgers are riding the backs of Russell Martin and Scott Elbert toward the playoffs, when the prospects become young veterans, what will people like me say about the new young ones?
Didn't the Dodgers do that the last time they won the World Series?
Well, if that is the case, keep in mind that playing "Livin' on a Prayer" is not a sign of desperation.
I think Plaschke and Simers already fill the role of Billy Packer.
Really.
http://tinyurl.com/ksf59
Yeah, but it was a lot easier to turn George Mason into Florida eighteen years ago than it is now. That extra round of playoffs is a real pain in the butt.
On a side note, I'm pretty sure I've not learned as much as Jon has from dating. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Odd that you would pick Joakim Noah since his father has done modeling in France and I believe his mother was a fashion model.
Genetics is not always benevolent.
Gustavo Chacin of the Blue Jays looks like something out of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Jorge Posada is also a fairly, um, homely gentleman.
At the risk of starting a fight that I don't really care about, Barry Bonds' baby face on his elephantine head has gotten to be quite strange-looking.
At this moment, the Dodgers are one full game behind the Rockies and Giants for fourth place. The Giants are down 6-4 in the 8th thanks to a nice throw from Soriano to nail Vizquel at the plate on a DP.
The Dodgers did leap ahead of all the NL East team with its sweep of the Nats.
Of course, since I'm back from vacation, the Dodgers will return to their ways of all but the very beginning and end of July and I will have to go into exile.
Looks like he's gonna have to switch over to the "I just have a lot of synthetic testerone" defense.
"There also were two nude photos of Denise Richardson." :)
Denise Richards is the one married or formerly married to Charlie Sheen, right?
http://tinyurl.com/g5crp
The Crown Princess of Same:
http://tinyurl.com/fz5bs
He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named:
http://tinyurl.com/h37d5
And, for reference, the link listed above:
http://tinyurl.com/elz3x
Don't tell me there isn't something elemental and deeply wrong going on here.
6 - Thanks. That's basically how I navigate these waters now.
Formerly. Word is he divorced her when he became aware of the fact that she contained fewer organic parts than what he put up his nose on a regular basis.
I look through news stories on this topic to keep people informed!
Denise Richards is dating Richie Sambora while Charlie Sheen is dating Brooke Mueller, a real estate agent.
I do not know if Ms. Mueller pronounces her surname as "Miller." I will get on that.
Like, um, dating.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_oddspec.php
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
Mark Alexander pitched 2 innings of no-hit ball with 2 walks and 5 strikeouts.
Kuo's game score was 61.
Kemp: 4-4, 3B, 2 R, 2 RBI
Young: 2-4, 2 RBI
LaRoche: 2-3, BB
Andy LaRoche started 5 double plays. One was a 5-3, the other four 5-4-3.
I hope the Queen City is ready for Eric. That revamped Reds bullpen will be fearsome.
It has Gary Majewski in it after all.
Caught three steps in front of the warning track.
---
I would be shocked -- and not in the Captain Renault sense -- if that's not a record of some kind.
No he's not going Milton Bradley, just fouling them off.
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B05080MON1988.htm
Duane Kuiper : Every fly ball Bonds hits :: Charlie Steiner : Every fly ball anyone hits
"Take a breath."
Patient inhales
"No, take it DEEP! Take it FAR!"
Patient does it
"You've got heartdisease! Heartdisease! Heartdisease! You'regonnadie! You'regonnadie! You'regonnadie BWAHAHBWAHAH!"
About a hundred seagulls have descended on the stadium. Two out.
"Maddux went 5-0 in April but is 4-11 since then. According to Stats Inc., the only pitchers to start at least 12 games since May 1 and post a lower winning percentage are Mark Hendrickson (3-11) and Jae Seo (2-7). Colletti traded Seo for Hendrickson last month."
There's something almost poetic about that.
I haven't seen any mention of that an any of the various articles, nor have I seen indication as to when Maddux will pitch.
My guess is they start Sele Tuesday, then just skip him and make him the long man in the pen.
Draw whatever conclusions you may.
It seems Billingsley is the odd man out here, and thus is the most likely to be sent down before tomorrow's game. 6.8 walks per 9 is bad for job security.
Hopefully Chad will be back soon.
I'd much rather have Billingsley out there instead of Hendrickson.
I'm still irritated that Lofton is on this team.
They shouldn't have spoken out so boldldy, but I sort of understand what they're saying.
Tampa Bay has been irrelevant for years, following the Pittsburgh Pirate model of blocking prospects with aging veterans, and now they have some genuine good young players. (No Gathright talk, and yes, I know he can jump over a car.) So what do they do? Leave them in AAA.
What for? Just bring them all up and let them get experience. They're not going anywhere anyway.
To answer Jon's question: I'm a fan. Of course I want them to compete down to the wire every year. But it seems like right now the stars are aligned for the Dodgers to build a stronger team in the near future, and I wouldn't want them to sacrifice that, even if I knew it meant we'd finish at .500 or lower in a particular year.
What I think it comes down to is PR. Look how Pat Gillick is dealing with the Abreu trade. And he's flying right in the face of supposedly unreasonable fans, just telling them "we're not close."
But I don't think there is as big a disconnect as some think. If you did a poll, I think a large percentage of fans would say they are aware the Dodgers have a lot of talent in the minors that we should be optimistic about. Vinny talks about it, it's on talk-radio, it's in the papers. Everyone understands Ned's dilemma (except Plaschke).
I think the pressure on Ned to win now is coming more from players like Kent, Nomar, Drew, Lowe and Penny, and their agents. I think they felt like they were made certain promises. They want the glory, and they want it before they get too old or hurt.
One thing I learned in politics. Certain people have "bugging rights." They don't always get what they want, but they always get an audience. Eventually, if someone wants something enough, and bugs the boss about it enough, they might get it. Agents for veteran players like Kent have bugging rights with the GM. "Jeff is going to be very disappointed if..." Ned has to deal with that.
Nobody is saying that Julio Lugo sucks. (Okay, someone did.)
He is however, playing WAY over his head and out of step with his career numbers. His career numbers are the same as Rafael Furcal's, offensively. Considering the high level Lugo is playing at, we are looking at receiving the bulk of Lugo's regression to the mean.
Those kids need to understand that nothing is promised, and that they do what the organization says. Period. The vets on that team were pretty upset.
whether you agree with the deals or not, let's hope that Lugo and Maddux put up some good numbers for us.
I don't disagree with you, but I don't imagine that most minor league players are really very cognizant of changes in general management.
All they know, is that they've been tearing up the minor leagues for a significant stretch now, and I believe one even voiced displeasure last season that he wasn't called up.
Just because a prospect voices his displeasure that he hasn't been called up yet doesn't mean he should be, but really, why haven't they all been called up yet?
http://tinyurl.com/g2ae3
I was simply astonished.
[shudder]
vr, Xei
In Delmon Young's case, he was close to a promotion before he decide to javelin a bat, nearly impaling an umpire. Upton is a mess in the field, and is being switched to third base, and becoming acclimated to the position. He's now up in Tampa. And in Elijiah Duke's case, I hate to label people, but I'm going to. He's a flat out thug. I have a friend in high A in the D-Rays organization, and the word throughout is that he's a major blowup waiting to happen. Not counting the umpire he already headbutted.
On the other hand, the D Rays seem not to mind stockpiling blocked talent on their AAA team. Assuming Guzman, Young and Dukes are all outfielder/DH types, what do they do with them and Baldelli, Gomes, and Crawford? Is BJ going to move to OF too? It's a nice problem to have as long as you have room on the 40 man roster.
The Boston Red Sox discussed trading second baseman Mark Loretta to the St. Louis Cardinals and replacing him with Lugo, but the Red Sox backed away when they became aware Lugo had little interest in playing second base.
Colletti said he had not spoken with Lugo, but was under the impression he would play second base "as long as he's viewed as a shortstop when he hits the market" as a free agent this fall.
Colletti knew he was getting a rental and has no intention of keeping Lugo.
its okay steve. no bad feelings. we all are on the same team here.
As I was 10 hours ago, I am still perplexed that Kenny Lofton is still on this roster.
On a side note, I thought it was interesting that Jeff Kent stopped A.Martinez in the elevator and asked him to explain the Julio Lugo trade to him.
vr, Xei
I'm not as down on the Lugo trade as others. I suggested that we offer Guzman and Izturis for Soriano because we would get 2 months out of Soriano and then get 2 draft picks in the offseason when he bolts for FA. Lugo is not on Soriano's level, but he will be the best available SS on the free agent market and is a type A free agent, therefore he will net us 2 draft picks. The question is, what kind of impact is Lugo going to make on the team. If Kent is indeed out for most of the year and Lugo can post around an .800 OPS (give or take a few points), this can turn out to be a pretty decent deal, but that is also on the condition that the Dodgers make the playoffs.
I'm completely against the Maddux deal. I think Maddux is capable of posting the type of numbers that he has accumulated the past 2-3 seasons, but he won't be a significant improvement over Sele (I'm assuming that he'll be removed from the rotation). I felt that Colletti undersold Izturis. The Pirates were reportedly interested in Izturis and might have offer the Oliver Perez/Roberto Hernandez package that they gave up for a younger version of Olmedo Saenz in Xavier Nady. If there wasn't a great deal out there now, then Ned could have waited until the offseason when a number of teams will be looking for a new SS.
I still don't understand why Lofton is on the roster. He should be DFA ASAP.
If the Dodgers don't make the playoffs this year, these two moves will be a gigantic failure and Ned should start thinking about pursuing a career in a different profession Making the playoffs is important because of that $25 million payout that given to teams for making the postseason.
I was a little bit against the Maddux deal when I first heard it but after 10 hours to think it over, its not that big of a deal anymore. Like others have pointed out, the 4 million that izturis is owed next year can be put in the "By the Dodgers an all star pitcher Barry Zito/Jason Schmidt fund"
He can pinch hit and pinch run. Cruz can be a late inning replacement, as he's not bad defensively. I think Ledee may be on his way out, though.
On a side note, I thought it was interesting that Jeff Kent stopped A.Martinez in the elevator and asked him to explain the Julio Lugo trade to him.
Heh, really? That's pretty funny. Did A share his explanation?
Here's hoping the Royals spend big and go after him.
"I'm a future hall of famer, you expect me to move over? Look at my credentials!"
If all goes well, maybe Kent will demand a trade.
Career averages are very instructive for a player like Lugo, especially since he is 30, and very few players suddenly become better at the age of 30. We don't use Maddux's career numbers because he is almost 40, at which point players noticeably depreciate in value. (See Steve Finley, Barry Bonds, etc.)
Also, it is incorrect to say that Lugo was a "part-time" player in Houston. His number of AB's year by year:
2000 (Hou)- 420
2001 (Hou)- 513
2002 (Hou)- 322
2003 (Hou)- 65
2003 (TB)- 433
2004 (TB)- 581
2005 (TB)- 616
2006 (TB)- 289
Throughout these years his career OPS is .751 and has been remarkably stable. Aside from this year, his OPS has never gone more than 30 points over .750, and never less than 50 points under .750.
When a player is this stable throughout his career, warning flags should be raised in the event of such a great year.
Greg-
I agree that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, Red Sox, are the juggernauts of that division. The problem for Tampa is that this paradigm will always be the case, so you might as well make a stab at it now, while you still have all this talent together.
No, we dont want the royals getting lugo! Royals first pick will be protected because they suck so much (kind like ours if we ended the season today). Best hope is that the 16th worst team in the majors sign Lugo.
I think hes going to go to the Red Sox anyways in the offseason.
Delwyn Young's stock rises higher
Young is strictly an outfielder now. He doesn't play 2b anymore. Although, its not like he really did anyways (har har har).
good point and I feel your pain thats why I never said I clearly liked this deal. I dont understand Colletti's fetish with dealing with Tampa Bay; although Lugo is different then the baez's and hendricksons and lance carters. Lugo is actually a pretty good baseball player, hes been one for the last couple of years now. This year he is showing to be a complete player- all 5 tools. I still dont want to sign him long term unless Furcal goes somewhere else. Next year, Betemit should be at 2b with Laroche at 3b full time. Kent can go to a "contender" if he wants and Nomar can be on the DL for some other team.
Can he play the outfield?
Is that from Plaschke? Isn't he the reporter? Shouldn't he know those kind of things?
So what are the chances that Kent is traded. I'm sure he would pass through waivers with his humungous contract. I think the Red Sox are the one team that would be interested. Rudy Seanez for Jeff Kent?
Acceptance, followed by general apathy, does tend to take life's troubles away.
When expectations have been so lowered as to rejoice when the team doesnt get totally ripped off, its time to accept it and move on.
Move on to another team.
---
The ballpark will definitely help Maddux.
Here's my projections based on the ballpark factors and the way Maddux is currently pitching as well as the Dodgers ytd offensive performance:
5.5 k/9, 1.6 bb/9, 0.89 hr/9
3.60 era, 1.223 whip
3.96 runs against / 9, 4.99 runs for / 9, xWin% 0.614
I'd expect 10 starts in the 57 remaining games on the conservative side. Maddux averages about 6.2ip per start right now so here are those numbers projected to the actual stats:
10gs, 62ip, 38k, 11bb, 6hr
Expected decisions: 62 / 8.25 = 7.515 (round up to 8)
Expected Dodgers record: 5-3 with 2 ND
Devil Rays have room for you on their welcome wagon.
"Friedman talked recently with several teams about Lugo, most specifically Toronto, but not the Dodgers. He decided to call them around 1 p.m. (EST) to see if they had interest, and when general manager Ned Colletti said he did things moved quickly, with the deal sealed around 3:45."
http://tinyurl.com/jsyl8
LOL
So basically Colletti had no idea what he was doing.
Izturis is clearly better than Carlos Lee and Bobby Abreu.
2-3 2 HR (one from each side of the plate, one of them being a GS) 6 RBI 2 BB 1 SB 2 web gems
He also committed an error
Is that even a good thing?
- TJ Simers
Then again, I still kicked butt in the trade, unlike Colletti.
I have few Izturis cards lying around somewhere. I hope Cubs fans feel the same way about Izturis as Phil Rogers does.
This is, of course, key, because of this sentence:
The only organization that came close was the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, who not coincidentally also dealt with the Dodgers.
Which is, not coincidentally, true.
Nationals with the middle relievers for two starting players trade.
As long as he (Maddux) can still think, he can still pitch.
It reminds of the joke about the guy who had a hand injury. The doctor operates and the guy wakes up and says, "Doc, will I be able to play the piano?" And the doctors says, Yes! And the patient says, "Great. I've always wanted to be able to play a musical instrument."
Why couldnt Guzman hit like that? Maybe he would still be with us if he had.
Just thought you'd like to know. Probably not.
The new movie's title is THE DARK KNIGHT, which is also cool (and a nice nod to Frank Miller).
We now return to our post-trade angst. Tar barrels on the left, feather buckets on the right.
This is wrong. In a small sample of games or in a large sample of games, anything from one team winning them all to the other team doing so is possible, but all possible outcomes are not equally likely. In a small sample, the probability of the inferior team winning a series is higher than in a large sample, but that doesn't mean it's anything like 50/50.
If it's a crapshoot, the dice are still loaded in favor of the team that is truly better. How heavily loaded depends on how much better. We remember the upsets, but most of the time, the team expected to win does so.
(Or if you prefer a different twist on the metaphor, in a single roll of the dice, it's possible to roll an 11 on the first try, but a 7 is much more likely.)
Well, first of all, that's a straw man. No one has, as far as I've seen, ever taken the position that a player can't improve. In fact, all the love for prospects is about upside, i.e., projected (or hoped for) improvement.
But we know that hitters, on average, peak between 26 and 28. That hasn't changed over the years. Now, that's an average. There are certainly anomalies. Guys who peak later and guys who peak earlier. Might Lugo be a late-peak guy? Sure. But it's much more probable, given that there hasn't been steady improvement to this point, that this year is anomalous. And the best projection (most likely to be correct, but by no means guaranteed to be correct) is regression to his average level of performance.
We have to be careful about how we say things, and how we characterize what others are saying, or conversation is pointless. It's possible that Lugo just made a leap at age 30. That would make him rare among major leaguers (already at the tail of the distribution in terms of talent). It's therefore much more probable that he has just had good luck so far this year (over and above his true talents). We can hope it continues for 2 more months, but we'd be bucking the odds to bet on it.
Colletti is spraying talent at other teams like the Ying Yang Twins spray Cristal around in their videos.
I'm going to analyze that one in terms of the rebuild while winning-now paradigm Colletti is probably within. Everyone knows we have a deep farm. They know we can't keep all the prospects. We know we can't keep them all either. Seems to me Colletti concedes to overpaying to fix immediate needs even though who he gets is probably not even in the Dodgers' long term plans. Justifying it by repeating to himself over and over at first that, 'it wasn't a top prospect'...and then later at the deadline that, 'It wasn't one of our top prospects that produced well at the MLB level'. Add in that quote he made about every trade he tries to do pull a deal with asking for Billingsley and you have what Colletti sees as his predicament as a GM of a team with a good farm system.
That said there should be some guys that are still untouchable beyond the stated line of top prospects that did well during their cup of coffee (Guzman). I didn't like him much after seeing him being all sullen in Vegas, but it seems that an extra 30 minutes or so any GM worth his paycheck could talk down the D-Rays from one of your top 20 prospects to Delwyn Young. Guzman seemed like a chip not best used for 2 months of Lugo. Guzman seems more like a fire extinguisher behind glass with a clear message 'FOR USE IN EMERGENCY'.
With all of our middle infielders...this wasn't such an emergency.
We are a demonstrated mark over at least the Navarro and Guzman trades.
There's a bit of penny psychology in it, but it's a good read. Also makes a useful counterpoint to the Colletti-as-mark meme being tossed around here.
http://tinyurl.com/zajn7
One other Post plug -- at 11:00 am Pacific, Post national baseball writer Dave Sheinin will be on for a live chat at washingtonpost.com. I've linked his stuff over here before; he's a very smart guy, a great writer, and is a good friend of the statminded fan. Probably be worth reading.
vr, Xei
(Unless it involves lightsabers and was made when I was less than 10 years old.)
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5833716
I object to calling the Penny/LoDuca deal "statistically motivated." The motivation for that deal was as plain vanilla old school baseball as there is: We need to get an Ace.
Sure, DePodesta analyzed statistics in picking which Ace to target and which players to give up, but calling the deal "statistically motivated" is just nonsensical.
Unless the "statistic" he's talking about is "wins."
OK, horse, I'm done with you now. What, it's dead? Well, just one last whack . . .
Regarding, Batman, Superman, Spiderman, etc. etc. etc.: It amazes me that moviemakers can keep making the same movies over and over and over, and people keep going to see them over and over and over.
Why come up with a new idea when you can make millions just rehashing the same one over and over and over?
Batman Begins IMO, was really good (worth checking out)
Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.