I don't see much hope for improvement for Aybar and Guzman on your list.

Sky's the limit for Hamulack, though.

I'm enjoying watching Ethier at the moment, but his .405 BABIP is a question mark for me.

Not that I really have any idea what I'm talking about. I'm kind of new to this stuff. Is that .405 BABIP, in fact, a question mark?

VORP is one of my favorite baseball words. Nonsensical yet meaningful, and endlessly repeatable.

VORP VORP VORP VORP...

BABIP is another good one.

3 - Sure, it's a question mark.

4 Plus: Didn't somebody here once reference Bonds by saying, "His VORPal blade went snicker-snack?"

That was awesome.

I dont know if this was covered in the other thread, but did anyone else catch this sad blurb in the LAT today?

CINCINNATI — The Dodgers announced that Greg Maddux would start Thursday in the series finale against the Cincinnati Reds, bumping rookie Chad Billingsley to Saturday.

Professionally, Billingsley understands. Personally, he's disappointed.

The change will rob the rookie right-hander of his first chance to pitch with his parents in the stands.

Billingsley's father, James, has battled cancer and the effects of a stroke for years and has been unable to travel to L.A. He watched his son during spring training, but hasn't seen him pitch since.

Manager Grady Little did not know that Billingsley's parents had driven from their home in Defiance, Ohio, to watch the series when he juggled the rotation to accommodate Maddux.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

That would have been a game that I might have begged Vin Scully to fly out and broadcast.

8
And here I thought the "heartlessness" left with Depo...

8

While it's sad, stuff like that happens. And at least Billingsley is being bumped for Greg Maddux and not Mark Hendrickson. I would think his father would understand that.

The Dodgers should pay to fly Billingsley's family to Florida. I mean, why not? They can afford send a million bucks to Kaz Ishii, they can afford to fly a small family from Ohio to Miami.

{8}

well that just bummend me out a little bit, maybe Grady will have a change of heart.

12. It may be a health issue with traveling rather than a money thing, or perhaps a combination of both.

It's been surprising to me that (so far) Russell Martin has out-RBI'd Ethier (45 to 41) from a lower spot in the lineup while hitting half as many home runs (5 to 10). Granted, I see Ethier as the bigger long-term RBI man, but I'm surprised that Martin's VORP isn't higher. In my mind, Martin would come before Saito in Dodger rookies to date, and pretty darn close to Ethier.

BTW, congrats to the kudos expressed by Inside the Dodgers:
"...(Who am I kidding? I'm sure you've read his [Jon Weisman] long before you'll read this)."

src: http://insidethedodgers.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/2006/08/trade_coverage.html

14
Either way, it's heartless. Just heartless.

The part of me that is a fan, e.g. the part of me that is irrational about baseball...misses Izturis. I know we're better off with stronger offensive players at his positions, but I have to admit it. I loved watching that guy play shortstop. He blew me away with his glove work in the 2003 season when the Dodgers had no margin for error.

I got over LoDuca in about 2 hours. I probably missed David Ross more than I missed Shawn Green. I thought I'd miss Beltre, but since he left of his own accord, I figured he just wasn't that into us and forgot about him. But Izturis was a unique player.

Izturis and Gagne -- the heart and soul of the 2003 Dodgers, the strangest team to ever play at Chavez Ravine (at least since the '62 Angels).

There, I said it. It's off my chest.

14 Then they can rent them an air-conditioned bus with OnStar. This is a throw-enough-money-at-it kind of problem.

16

If there were to be a change now, it would have to come from Maddux. I sense that he's not a guy who likes to mess around with his preparation too much.

16

1) I definitely wish that Billingsley was making his start in Cincy. I'm a fan of his and it would be cool to see him pitch for his folks.

2) I believe Grady's in a no-win situation. Pick your poison: a little bad press and some bad feelings from your rookie, or bad feelings from your just-acquired HOFer, who's earned some deference. How do you tell Greg Maddux, "I know you'd prefer to start Thursday, because that's your normal-rest day, but I'm gonna let my rookie start instead, because he wants to pitch for his dad, who's sick." Maddux might understand, but it's still going to eat at him a bit, I think.

I just hope Billingsly doesn't get tagged as snooty for being disappointed.

20 - How do you tell Greg Maddux...

You remind him this is 2006 and he stinks now.

20
I think it would eat at Maddux a lot if he was bumped back a day. I just have this picture of Maddux being very single-minded in his preparation. That's how he got to be so good. He's probably figured out an entire game plan for pitching to the Reds by now.

Indeed, Little can't win. Sometimes life just is inherently unfair.

Hmm. From Yahoo maps, it looks like Defiance is about equally far from Chicago, Cincy, and Pittsburgh.

The Dodgers are at Chicago in September.

I think something could be worked out.

Although maybe something else could have been done, Grady strikes me as anything but heartless.

25 Just from my perception of him, I'm sure that he feels pretty bad about the situation.

24 And right before the Dodgers go to Chicago in September, they are in Milwaukee, which is just a little further up the road. If Billingsley is on the team and starting, he will make at least one start in Milwaukee/Chicago.

Let's hope the Dodgers work something out for him.

I think it's tough to blame someone for it given the difficulty of the two sides, but in the end, it just stinks. Personally, I would tell Maddux that he's got to be bumped. I can see why the organization wouldn't though.
This really does strike me as the kind of Plaschke would rail about if DePodesta was still in charge.

For what it's worth, Maddux has pitched better in Dolphins Stadium than in Great American over his career. He's allowed 10 homeruns in 20 starts in Florida, and there's this other obscure stat, "wins," and he's got nine of those.

In Great American, he's allowed 10 homers in just five starts. His WHIP there is 1.44, at Dolphins' it's 1.14.

This year, however, he has pitched better against the Reds; 3-0 with a WHIP of .94. Although his ERA against the Reds is a lot higher than against Florida, his WHIP and BA against is also much higher.

This really does strike me as the kind of Plaschke would rail about if DePodesta was still in charge.

That was my point.

23 Ideally it seems Maddux would volunteer to postpone his start until Friday, but as Bob Timmerman said it might throw him all out of sorts.

If we didn't have all our shortstops to provide this team with a moral core, I don't know what we would do.

32- I bet they're bummed, anyway, that Cruz was DFA. No more five on five shortstops vs. center fielders pickup basketball games any more.

32 - I credit Toby Hall.

If the Dodgers can fly Martin's dad out here, they can send Chad's parents to his next start, assuming his father is well-enough to fly.

33 -- Maybe this is sort of like trying to corner the market on silver. Rather than go for all the glittering, over-hyped materials like platinum and gold, corner the market in something nobody's paying attention to -- like banjo hitting middle infielders and over-the-hill centerfielders.

It was also interesting to read that Maddux is not planning on being in the mentor business.

Though, admittedly, its hard to corner the market on banjo hitting middle infielders when Jim Hendry is out trustbusting at every opportunity.

It's a sad story, but I wouldn't bump Maddux. This is a pennant race, not a sappy Kevin Costner movie. Besides, Chad should get used to disappointment. It builds character.

36 38 Ned Colletti is the Henry Comstock of baseball!

Let us hope he reaches a happier fate.

I just hope Billingsly doesn't get tagged as snooty for being disappointed.

not from this Dodger fan, he has all the right in the world to feel the way he feels.

37 - According to BPro, Maddux is notoriously close-mouthed when it comes to pitching, and how he does it. Come to think of it, I've only read one interview where Maddux described in detail, for him, the secrets to his success. It was, IIRC, in that monthly tome of sports knowledge: Playboy.
(BTW, Maddux said the key to his pitching was working inside and outside, because a batter can only protect one half of the plate.)
But, to the larger point, I was disappointed to learn Chad won't be taking away any tips from the crafty veteran.

It's not out of the question that the Dodgers' 2006 Most Valuable Player will be Andre Ethier.

Jon, have you found a similar statistical comparison of rookie batters? I'd have to think Andre is high on the list of RoY candidates.

{39}

dude! his dad had a hart attack, that's a big deal, If I were the manager I'd let Bills pitch in front of his Dad.JMO.

Defiance is a very cool name for a city. I'm hoping the defiance is not against the abolition of slavery or something like that. Defiance of prohibition might make a better story.

Defiance, Ohio is named after Fort Defiance, built in 1794 to protect the area against attacks by Native Americans.

45 It is named after Fort Defiance, built in 1794 by General "Mad" Anthony Wayne, who, quote, "def[ied] the English, Indians, and all the devils of hell to take it."

Too late! But perhaps the judges will give bonus points for the quote.

43 - Rookie OPS leaders, min. 150 PA

http://tinyurl.com/g2ab6

.941 Ethier, LA
.870 Jacobs, FLA
.847 Uggla, FLA
.847 Fielder, MIL
.823 Zimmerman, WAS
.820 Willingham, FLA
.816 Martin, LA
.808 Ross, FLA
.785 Hermida, FLA
.778 Jackson, ARI
.776 Aybar, ATL
.766 Ramirez, FLA
.754 Barfield, SD
.749 Paulino, PIT
.662 McLouth, PIT
.629 Abercrombie, LA

I would give bonus points for the quote.

That's for the NL, by the way.

43 Uggla is the rookie VORP leader (33.1), but his MLVr is lower (.202). His VORP is higher due to the extra ABs, and the tougher position.

wow Ethier is far & above all of the other dudes.

46

Fort Defiance! That is a much better story than I thought it could ever be.

Defensively, Ethier seems like a pretty average outfielder to me by observation, nothing special.

Sort of off-topic, but BP jokes that the mistress must have had the hitting genes, evidenced by Maicer Izturis' .296/.371/.421 line.

47 What a combination of peoples. :)

About the Billingsley situation, it may be worth a suggestion to Josh Rawitch -- seems like figuring out a way for the Dodgers to get his parents to Florida would be a nice little PR move... if it's doable, of course.

49 - Hmmm. Ethier leads in all three rate stats (BA/OBP/SLG), but I have to wonder to what degree will voters be dazzled by the higher counting stats of other candidates. Prince Fielder may end the season with 30 jacks, which could be enough alone to win RoY, comparison of OPS be damned.

49 - .629 Abercrombie, LA
Noooooooo!

I feel like if the Dad could fly, he would just fly to L.A.

56 They must not be Dodger fans for we have pointed out, maybe once or twice, that baseball talent is not distributed equally among siblings.

Ah, but for a few months we did have the better Aybar.

59 - LOL - sorry, Freudian slip.

59 - (wakes up in cold sweat, realizes Reggie as a Dodger was just a nightmare)
Whew!

49 - So what you're saying here is that the Dodgers will have to get past the Marlins in order to meet those 2009 Devil Rays in the World Series?

There's a Defiance College too. Ohio is the land of tiny liberal arts colleges.

From the LAT notebook:
Part of the rationale in acquiring Maddux was that he could share his expertise with young pitchers such as Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton.
Maddux, however, isn't comfortable with becoming a mentor.
''I'm going to pitch every five days and enjoy my time at the ballpark the other four,'' he said. ''It's hard to walk in and start giving advice. That wouldn't be the right thing to do.
''I didn't come over here to coach, I'm here to play. But I'm all for helping teammates, and I hope they help me too.''

Ugh.

Y'know, considering the alleged big drawback of Google Boy was his lack of communication skills, it's somewhat interesting how many communication gaffes have been committed under the all-seeing eye of Ned Colletti, Great Communicator At Large.

This one (Billingsley family stuff) doesn't seem like his fault, but as others have noted, had it happened on Google Boy's watch, we would have a tear-jerker of a Plaschke fatwa (who coined that phrase? Andrew? dzzrt? I forget.) about it by now.

Am I bitter? There might be reason to suggest that could perhaps be the case.

I hope Chad Billingsley's father isn't as upset as the Zamboni machine driver at Staples was during the NHL Lockout. Plaschke made that guy out to look like he had to start robbing liquor stores to make ends meet.

You mean other people here haven't had to do that?

17 Yeah, it was weird seeing Lugo in #3.

I'm sort of "eh" on Bill Simmons. He's very smart and a gifted riffer/writer, but he's never blown me away like he seems to a lot of people. Anyhow, I really expected the Bird v. Ortiz he has up at espn.com to be annoying, but it's actually pretty interesting.

And this is a great line: "Seriously, if NESN started running 'Big Papi' cartoons on Saturday mornings, would you even be surprised?"

Re: Andre "34th among National League batters" Ethier

And another remarkable thing... not including last night, David Ross is 49th in the NL.

71 - ...in VORP, that is.

70.
Simmons is a funny guy, but that's about it. His actual knowledge of sports is pretty bad, it seems like his predictions are always off, and he gets carried away like the least objective of fans with little or no qualification. He's basically the funniest guy in your fantasy league/super bowl party who has a regular column on ESPN, which is often hilarious shouldn't be taken seriously.

Weren't Babip and Vorp members of Tito's cabinet when he ruled Yugosloavia?

59 I also briefly feared we had somehow got back Reggie A. in one of these trades. (LA) must be wrong. I'm having trouble posting, so this may be minutes or hours late.

Appears one or another Dodger Thoughts raeader may have slipped into the Giants' Press last night (from Post Nationals beat writer chat at washingtonpost.com):

Barry Svrluga: OK, this might be a good time to give a glimpse into what goes on in the press box. Here at AT&T Park -- formerly PacBell Park, formerly something else -- the press has an excellent seat, nice and low behind home plate. That, of course, draws all kinds of "media" types out to the park each night.

The past two games, there was a local radio "reporter" sitting within earshot of we local hacks. Traveling to the West Coast is a treat, but the time difference makes for a lot of scrambling to file stories before the games that make our East Coast deadlines. Not to bore you (I know: Too late), but it's a pretty stressful situation.

Back to the radio "reporter." This guy treated the press box like a local coffee shop. I mean, running commentary that you wouldn't believe. For your entertainment, a list of topics that came up during last night's 4-1 Nationals' victory:

The New York Cosmos
Matt Cain's one-hitters
Dusty Baker: Man of the People
Origin of the word "cashier"
Warning Track Power and its Relation to Willie McCovey
Commercial Viability of Country Music
Coot Veal, member of Expansion Washington Senators
Origin of the phrase "getting shelled"
U.S. vs. Barbary Coast Pirates, aka America's First War
Your Mom and Who She Voted For
Joe McCarthy: Russian Duke?

Oh, by the way: Livan Hernandez looked like Livan Hernandez again. That, however, was way secondary.

I heard Jeff Erickson from Roto-Wire and he made an interesting point on why there is such backlash against the stats analysis approach to baseball. He said that one thing those in that field could watch is the authorative read arrogant pronouncements made by those in the field and how those can rub those in the business the wrong way. Jeff said that while he could understand if someone from the outside was making these statements, those inside the game would get defensive and say things like what do you know, you are not part of the game.

On the otherhand when someone trades Craig Wison for Shawn Chacon, Jeff said is there a nice way to analyze that move.

Jeff also said that he would never forgive Plaschke for lambasting Depodesta the day after he got the LA job and figured from that point on he never had a chance.

My take is not dissimilar, I think where stats analysis gets a bad rap but some deservedly, is that even if you use stats to back your opinion/analysis, in the end it is still an opinion, sure it may have more weight than saying that guy looks like a balllplayer but it is still an opinion. And what happens at least for me is that when I try to use stats to back up an opinion, I sometimes feel that it is superior than those who don't and I think that arrogance comes off and damages the opinion.

BPro now gives the Dodgers a 16.8 or 19.9 percent chance of reaching the postseason.

77 - This is somewhat similar to what Bill James was saying 20 years ago, that baseball insiders were rejecting what he had to say not on merits but simply because he wasn't one of them.
Which is why, James later said, he enjoyed arbitrtation hearings so much. In those, stats are king, rather than some old-timer feeding out patronizing stories of his days in the Three-I League.

76

I'm pretty sure Eric was in Cincy and not SF.

80 That's pretty funny; I hadn't even thought of him. New York Cosmos! Joe McCarthy a Russian Duke!

It doesn't sound to me like Maddux is really going to benefit the team much. If that be the case, why trade Izzy for him inasmuch as Flanders thought he was a very important part of the team. (Don't agree with that thought, either) If Izzy was important, we simply don't trade him for someone who really isn't going to noticably help the team. If the idea was to get him off the books, just trade him for prospects. I think we had the infield covered with Loney, Furcal, Betemitt (or Aybar), and Martinez. More help, if needed, was in Las Vegas, an hour or two away. Trade for Lugo also pointless. Same old thing, the ShouldBeLate Ned Flanders making pointless trades just to get his face in front of a microphone. I assume we will offer Maddux and Lugo arbitration just to get Draft Picks for them.

77 The guys are BPro seem to be like that (the arrogant, my way is the right way). It's sad that someone would discout what they are saying because of their attitude. I know in reality that kind of stuff happens all the time.

My IP works quite well most of the time.
However I think I recognize a seasonal effect. I think the strength of my signal is marginal but usually adequate. It would appear times of high heat worsen my connection. There are several connections between my cable modem and the street utility pole, Unfortunately at least one of these is underground. Perhaps it is as simple as thermal expansion. Of course,we are in the middle of a record hot spell.
Does this sound possible, and has anyone experienced or heard of this problem.Thanks in advance for any help.

Ah, but for a few months we did have the better Aybar.

Nah, Angels have the better Aybar brother.

It's sad that someone would discout what they are saying because of their attitude

That happens a lot in other contexts too, such as "politics" and "religion."

I assume we will offer Maddux and Lugo arbitration just to get Draft Picks for them.

Maddux is a huge risk to offer arb because of his current salary and the liklihood that he will just take it. Lugo isn't a risk to accept.

Baseball America did a great roundtable with 2 scouts and 2 SABRmetricians about a year and a half ago. Sorry if this was already brought up, but the roundtable is a great read:

http://tinyurl.com/65vje

Jerry Royster on Matt Kemp...

______________________________

"I knew he was good, but it's ridiculous," Las Vegas manager Jerry Royster said of his 21-year-old center fielder. "He can just do everything."

"He's one of the top three minor league baseball players I've ever seen," said Royster, putting Kemp in a class with Raul Mondesi and Alex Rodriguez.

"The things he can do, nobody else can do that. The least impressive is probably his hitting, to be honest, because everything else is so good."

"He makes remarkable plays on defense and steals bases. It's all coming together for him," Royster said.
---
"I'm here working on some things," said Kemp, explaining his need to develop more discipline at the plate. "I don't try to hit home runs, because when you do that, you get in trouble.

____________________________

http://tinyurl.com/n7xon

77 The other thing is that, rightly or wrongly, Moneyball was really, really personally insulting to many individuals in the baseball establishment. Ken Williams is one example. Beyond showing them as fallible or misguided, in really characterized them as buffoons and charlatans with no legitimate claim to the positions they hold.

87 What if we tell Maddux he's going to pitch long relief? Off his record, what could he get in arbitration? What if we offerred $1M, then DFAd him if he accepted or we won over his number ($4M?)? That brings up two questions: 1. That would wrap in his buy out if he has one, so total loss might be less than $1M. 2. How much is two First Round Picks worth?

89 I realize he's talking about minor league performance, but Mondesi and A-Rod is a pretty big class.

"BPro now gives the Dodgers a 16.8 or 19.9 percent chance of reaching the postseason."

Until '94 the average chance of any team making the playoffs was 14% at the start of the season. I have to wonder if the people who think teams like the Dodgers should just give up and play for next year also believed the same of every team in baseball at the start of the '93 season.

91 Maddux makes $9M this year, and your salary can't decrease much in arbitration (20% max?). If we offered him arbitration, he would likely accept and earn no less than $7-8M next year. Boras is his agent, if that matters at all.

For those of you who don't visit Athletics Nation they recently had a Day at the ballpark. Before the game they were treated to a meet & greet with Billy Beane and A's broadcaster Ken Korach. This is a 4 min video of Billy Beane greeting the group. It's cool to see how much he appreciates their dedicated following of the team.

http://tinyurl.com/gwdfy

93- Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I sure did.

93 When there are four playoff spots for 26 teams, half of them should believe they have no chance.

Back then, you had to win at least 95 games to make the playoffs. Did over half the teams really believe they could win 95 games?

BTW some lunchtime trivia for DT. Also this may help those who think Maddux would ever come out of the bullpen.

Greg Maddux has only appeared in 4 games from the bullpen and he has not done that since his second year in the majors.

For pitchers with 300 wins, that ranks as the second lowest number of games appeared outside of starting.

There is one pitcher who has 300 games and has only appeared once, in the regular season, out of the bullpen.

Name that pitcher.

95 Of course, I was just reading a thread at another website where someone called the AN guys nuts and worshipped at the cult of Beane.

93 Oh, and playoff chances are based on team strength, so a good number of teams had more than a 14% chance.

94
In other words, in exchange for Izturis, we either got:

1. Two months' worth of an unwilling "mentor" well past his prime in 2006, or

2. Two months' worth of an unwilling "mentor" well past his prime in 2006, and a very expensive unwilling "mentor" well past his prime in 2007.

98 Clemens.

90 Its amazing that it was those profiled in the book that got the label of "MoneyBall" types when that was the title of the book, not a name of some cult.

For myself, I have never read it but I was a big fan of Bill James' abstracts and Baseball Prospectus,

91 If Maddux were a free agent, the Dodgers could certainly offer him a low salary, but under the current rules of arbitration the maximum salary cut a player can take is 20%.

Maddux is making $9m this year; thus, the lowest the Dodgers could offer is $7.2m.

There are these options:

1) Dodgers offer Maddux arbitration - he accepts: LA on the hook for at least $7.2m
2) Dodgers offer Maddux arbitration - he rejects: LA gets 2 draft picks
3) Dodgers don't offer Maddux arbitration: LA can't resign Maddux until May 1, 2007.

Hopefully Brian Sabean will make the decision easier by using his annual draft pick punt to sign Maddux before the December arbitration deadline.

103 Moneyball was a great story. If more people took it as such (on both sides), it wouldn't quite be as polarizing as it is(was).

99 Well I'm sure most of us would gladly show up wearing "Cult Member" t-shirts if we could have a roundtable with Flanders, Logan White and Kim Ng.

I think Steve Phillips was portrayed the worst in Moneyball, and rightly so. He is one of those guys who should have no right to come near a front office. His analysis on ESPN is the worst outside of Morgan and Kruk, and he created a huge hole for the Mets franchise to dig out of. Ken Williams was pretty inexperienced then, and I think that showed, but no reason to say that it portrayed him as dumb. The ones who got it worst were writers like Ringolsby and Morgan, who deserved it and have no redeeming qualities in their careers as analysts. An open mind is an important thing, not just the commitment to statistics, but also the understandings that you can learn more, and they don't want to learn more. Moneyball, for the most part, portrayed ignorant people as such.

94 Thanx. We certainly don't want to go there. You got to wonder who is the bigger idiot: Someone who would pay $9M a year, just for his name in effect... or someone who would assume a third of his salary for a two month rental of said name and not much else. Sounds like Jeff Kent may now have a soul mate on the team. I would say again Flanders is an idiot but someone would get angry about it....

I thought those comments by Maddux were pretty understanable, he is not a pitching coach but I never thought he was going show him some new grip, I always thought it was more of the preparation he takes but also just getting the outing by outing opportunity to watch him pitch and then talk to him about it, I don't think that is out of bounds of what he would consider to be a good teammate but is he guy that is going to take Chad aside on his own initiative, probably not.

I do think that sometimes we just can't wait to take something and spin it just to support an opinion that was going to change even if the facts were different.

In other words, if you don't like the deal for Maddux, if something comes out that can make it look worse, great, if he wins tomorrow, well its still not worth Izzy.

If Raffy Furcal is hitting near .300 since May 1st, fine but he is still not worth 13 million dollars.

That's what make the visits to DT both fun and sometimes exasperating but all opinions are welcome here.

Sorry for any generalizations in this comments.

108 Aren't the Cubs paying the difference between him and Izturis?

If Maddux pitches well in Dodger Stadium (and, really, who not named Odalis or Niedenfuer doesn't?) I'd expect he will re-sign and pitch here next year. He has a home in O.C., and it sounded yesterday, when interviewed, that Mrs. Maddux was very excited about his pitching here.

I wouldn't read much into the "mentoring" quote -- strikes me that he's just saying he's no Sandy Alomar -- as I think he's repeatedly denied his being a mentor, and yet Millwood, Schmidt and others have credited him as such (Google for more on this).

Lugo was no risk -- no way he's going to accept arbitration to sit on the Dodger bench.

108 - The Cubs picked up a chunk of Maddux's remaining salary (did they ever release the actual amount?), so worst case scenario (in terms of return on investment) is that LA refuses arbitration, making Maddux an unrestricted free agent, able to sign with any team other than LA for any amount.

I don't think "idiot" applies to Ned here, unless it was idiotic to drop Izturis' salary from next year's payroll in exchange for having Maddux for 2 months.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Ned wants Maddux to be a Dodger next year. I mean, given what we have observed thus far, why wouldn't he?

Now to some updates:

Best Tools in the Minors from Baseball America.

AAA - PCL
Best fastball - Chad Billingsley
Best Defensive 1B - James Loney.

AA - Southern League
Best Power Prospect - Matt Kemp (only 2 months in league)
Best Defensive 2B - Tony Abreu
Best Defensive SS - Chin-Lung Hu
Most Exciting Player - Matt Kemp

High A and Low A comes out Thursday and Friday, respectively.

If Maddux pitches well in Dodger Stadium (and, really, who not named Odalis or Niedenfuer doesn't?)

Hendrickson, Carter, Kuo, Osoria, Baez...

113 - I would imagine this season's remainder amounts to a two-month test drive for both parties. I would prefer Maddux at the back end of the rotation if the other options are Hendrickson, Tomko, and others of that ick. (No, I did not mean to type "ilk.")

BTW the top hitting prospect in the Texas League (Double A) in 2005 was Andre Ethier, and here was a quote by former MLB player, now manager, Von Hayes.

Andre has the potential to be a major league No. 3 hitter if he can see himself as as a line-drive hitter with power, as opposed to a power hitter who hits line drives. When he is on, he's a run-producing machine in both driving them in and scoring them. When trying to hit line drives and not overswinging, he sees the ball well and will take the walks which produce the runs."

--Midland manager Von Hayes on Midland outfielder Andre Ethier

116
ick (sic)

I think Tomko's days of starting are in the rear view mirror, he probably has a more lucrative and long lasting career in the bullpen.

I only wish Maddux was starting Friday instead of Thursday, and that Billingsley was given a chance to pitch in front of his family. Sounds like Grady didn't even know about that and feels bad about it now, too, but not enough to change the rotation. Maddux also (as someone pointed out here previously) has stated how much he likes pitching in Florida, so those two things together made me think he'd be pitching in that series instead. But, oh well. The rotation order will probably change every week from here on out, in bits and pieces.

112 Personally, I didn't care if Izzy stayed or went. His salary next year isn't that far out of line over what we are paying some other people who aren't earning it. My point was:
1, Maddux will be little or no help.
2. If we needed Izzy or someone like him, then keep him.
3. If we didn't need him, trade him for prospects.
4. This wasn't time relevant; If we needed him only while Kent is out, we could have put him on waivers at that time and got at least $50K for him and whoever claimed him picked up all his salary. That is not DFAing him, it is revocable waivers.
5. Just another deal that didn't need to be done, one where we ended up just about where we started.
6. Just curious who pitches better for the next two months, Baez, Perez, or Maddux.

Same lineup as yesterday.

Furcal SS
Lofton CF
Lugo 2B
Drew RF
Ethier LF
Betemit 3B
Martin C
Loney 1B
Penny P

The only gigantic holes this season have been the lack of power from cf and 3b and the lack of good starting pitching from 3 spots in the rotation, and then some health concerns (nomar, kent).
Other than the health concerns, because i don't think health can be predicted, this team was pretty much predictable before the season even began.
My prediction before the season started was not enough power because of lofton and mueller, and not enough starting pitching because of tomko and seo.
What i didn't predict is odalis perez in a downward spiral.

Next year laroche and kemp should clear up 3b and cf.
I don't know what to say about 2 out of 3 spots in the starting rotation (billingsley will clear up 1 spot), that will have to be from free agency, and hopefully ned has learned his lesson that the tomkos and seos of the world don't work, and he needs to get 2 legit starting pitchers.

122
Is Yugo really our best hitter...?

123. LaRoche would be nice at 3B but don't we have another year of Mueller and Betyourmet? vr, Xei

don't we have another year of Mueller

On the payroll, yes. On the field, highly doubtful.

124. I think they made the lineup out going boy-girl-boy-girl...
vr, Xei

123

we have power from 3b now. all likliness, betemit will hit for morw power next year then laroche.

127
Grittle seems to think that, if a "leadoff hitter" can't hit leadoff (because you already have someone else hitting leadoff), he should hit as close to leadoff as possible.

109- The comments by Maddox are not inherently anything. They're being examined because he was sold as being something that he doesn't seem to be interested in being. Just like Toby Hall turned out not to be at all interested in doing what we were told he'd be doing, just like Izzy didn't want to be a super-utility whatever, and Baez didn't want to be a place setter for Gagne (too sad, all the way around, on that), and anybody else I'm missing.

There are lots of bad arguments that make the rounds, but most of them aren't spin; at least, it doesn't seem sporting to attribute them to bad faith. Confirmation bias explains it better, I think. If the bad arguments were made in earnest, the arguers would be aware of how silly the things they were saying sounded. They don't seem to be.

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/07/confirmation_bi.html

124 Is Little really our best manager... Lugo must be our best hitter because Flanders told Little that he was, got it from his boy friend in Tampa...
I think I would hit Loney or Ethier third.

123 - Lack of power at CF is not an issue, speed to cover all that ground, on base, SB good average is what I look for in CF, the corner OF positions and the corner IF positions is where you should have the power. 3B has been a problem, don't know if Betemit is the answer but give him a chance to win or lose his job, he was productive for the number of AB he was given in Atlanta. Our big issue is getting enough "quality starters" that can average 6-7 innings per start, preferably closer to 7. Maddux is a two month stopgap and maybe one more year until a guy like Elbert could be ready by 2008.
107 - Phillips is terrible, but he has been a "suit" in the game not a player or coach, his game analysis therefore lacks foundation. Kruk is okay, he was at least a player, there is no gray area with Kruk, and he makes me laugh sometime. They need more of Orel in the studio, but he is getting more game action as a color analyst.

130
Regarding "confirmation bias": if any DT readers out there ever get a chance to take a university course in political psychology, I highly recommend it. I was fortunate enough to take such a course at Duke a few years ago, and found it absolutely fascinating. All kinds of info regarding how we think, what we pay attention to, how we process information, etc. etc. etc. A lot of things I had kinda thought about and wondered before, but didn't realize anyone was out there studying. It really opened my eyes to a whole new world.

124 He does have the highest VORP on the team...

Man, I am just so tired of the relentless name calling. At least, for me, it's making me vow never to do it again in any circumstance.

93 Imperabisne mihi? Quod mihi imperabis?

speed to cover all that ground, on base, SB good average is what I look for in CF,

Then lofton is your man.

Lofton = puke to me.

Totally different philosophy than mine concerning cf.

131 It could also be that he wanted to break up the all LH (except for Martin) lineup.

Frankly, there has been less evidence of disagreement between Ned and Grady than during last year.

I think Lugo batting 3rd is more of Grady not wanting to move Drew and Ethier out of the 4-5 slots and his general philosophy of batting rookies lower in the lineup.

83 It's sad that someone would discout what they are saying because of their attitude. I know in reality that kind of stuff happens all the time.

I'm surprised that you're surprised. You've obviously never worked in sales.

If this weren't the case, Dale Carnegie would not be world-famous.

Maddux agreed to come out here since he has a home in the OC and then he can golf more in the offseason. He is addicted to golf!
If he wants to end his career here, so be it. He has pitched very well at Dodger stadium in his career.

137 - I didn't say Lofton, Repko is more of someone I would look for. Lofton gets a terrible jump on balls now and I can see he's lost a step. Repko can go get the balls in the gap and he has a strong A+ arm that he has exhibited in his short stints already. Kemp eventually can play center but once Drew's days are done here, I see Kemp more of a RF.

132 - I've watched Orel on Baseball Tonight a few times at it appears he has the same problem I have with one eyebrow being higher than the other.

As for Maddux, he's paid to pitch. Honeycutt is paid to coach. If they want to swap roles, fine, let them work something out with Ned & Grady.

136 Oh jeez, sorry about the bad grammar there. Clearly, I meant "quid mihi imperabis".

the corner OF positions and the corner IF positions is where you should have the power.

Why? Why do some people think you HAVE to have power at certain positions. This team doesn't have enough power, but that doesn't mean it needs to come from a corner spot.

If Jeff Kent was having a normal year we'd be getting power from 2B...whic his essentially replacing the power we're not getting from 3B.

There is no rule as to where the power comes from just as long as it comes from somewhere.

Our big issue is getting enough "quality starters" that can average 6-7 innings per start, preferably closer to 7. Maddux is a two month stopgap and maybe one more year until a guy like Elbert could be ready by 2008.

The issue isn't quality starters, it's GOOD starters. Couple of really good starters on the market this offseason and we'd be moronic not to grab at least one of them. We may have to wait a little for Kershaw, Elbert, etc.

wow the dodgers play only 16 games out of their next 50 something games vs teams over .500?

5 vs Cincy
4 vs the mets
7 vs the padres

i still find it humorous that laroche, who is at 339/410/550 6hr 1:1 k/bb ratio in 109ABs in AAA at the age of 22 did not make John Manuel's midseason top 25.

143
I didn't want to say anything...

I just heard that Josh Barfield is the NL Rookie of the Month for July. I'd be interested to see how his numbers compared to Ethiers... (I'm sure somebody out there is quicker than me to gather this data).

I know Barfield's average was up there .

barfield: .400/.435/.590 3hr

ethier: 362/.407/.617 5hr

Thanks, nate. Coulda gone either way. Or Ethier way.

I have no problems with that line-up at all, except I am tired of seeing Lofton playing over Repko - my only assumption is it's due to pitching matchups and to Repko still recovering from his injury, not yet 100%. Other than that, I find it a pretty good line-up, though Nomar would be nice to have back (though Loney appears to have brought his bat with him this time).

135 Amen brother.

148
Barfield: .400 / .435 / .590 in 108 PAs; 7/10 SB, 16 runs / 13 RBI

Ethier: .362 / .407 / .617 in 108 PAs; 2/3 SB, 14 runs / 18 RBI

137 - Given the need for a centerfielder and left-handed power, I think Jim Edmonds would be a perfect fit next year. It's very possible he could pull a Nomar and want to come home to LA. He's just coming off a $10M salary this year, so he'd probably be had for a pretty affordable price.

148 Yeah, what 149 said.

my only assumption is it's due to pitching matchups and to Repko still recovering from his injury, not yet 100%.

my only assumption is that it's due to stupidity.

152 When you lose 13 out of 14 games, its hard to win any individual awards.

153-

Can't think of a player we need less than Jim Edmonds.

He's old, will command a big salary, and isn't that good anymore. Let's not forget that we have Kemp for CF.

Pitching pitching pitching. Edmonds really is about the last thing we need.

I keep reading that elbert's ETA is 2008 at the earliest and maybe 2009.
I also read from some posters that we shouldn't pick up 2 good starting pitchers because we will be blocking elbert.
Well if elbert is ready in 2008, wouldn't it be a good thing to give him an extra half year/1 year in the minors just in case, or we can eez him in by puting him in the pen in 2008?
Lowe's contract is up after 2008, therefore elbert replacing him.
Why mess around with maddux next year and hoping elbert will be ready by 2008, then have to replace lowe after 2008 with who.

153

Edmonds is not a FA. he has a 10 million club option in 2007 or a 3 million buyout. I think the cards will exercise it.

I wouldnt want Edmonds anyways.

137 - MB, your comment would have been just as clear without comparing Lofton to puke. This is the kind of tastelessness I really want to avoid here.

Now, to everyone: 77 is a crucial comment. If you can't be civil and reasonable when delivering your ideas, you're going to shut down part of your audience - namely, the part of the audience that might benefit most.

155

LOL!!!!, and i agree.

157

I agree.
Pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching.

157 - Just noticed for the first time that StL has a team option for $10M on him, or a $3M buyout. Given that buyout, I think it's possible StL goes ahead and picks it up.

Otherwise, I really disagree with Edmonds being the worst possible fit on LA. A still-quality CFer who has a .284 eqa and 30-homerun power and hits lefthanded seems to fit most of LA's needs.

I'm also assuming Nomar won't be resigned.

162

Hes not the worst possible fit, but I think the money could be spent on another position where we dont have young talented players ready to step in.

153 I'd be extremely disappointed if our outfield isn't Ethier, Kemp, Drew next year.

I don't care that the Dodgers are last in home runs in the NL. They are first in OBP, ninth in SLG (thanks in large part to being fourth in doubles) and third in runs scored. The pitching stats are mediocre, but the one that stands out to me is that only the Cubs have had fewer save opportunities in 2006.

From 165: only the Cubs have had fewer save opportunities in 2006

Until this past weekend, Baez was highlighted on the "Individual Leaders" on the Dodgers Yahoo page as the team leader in saves. That always made be do a double take.

That Edmonds option decision will be worth watching. My gut feeling, which comes from living among (mostly civil) Cardinal fans, is that the team won't pick it up.

The Cardinals have maxed out their payroll, and they'll need every dime this fall to spend on pitching.

As far as Edmonds the player, he seems to be getting old quickly. But then, aren't we all?

Edmonds still has talent and power (and as we saw, can still pick it in the outfield), but, yeah, he's way too expensive at this point in his career and I'd much rather take my chances with a cheap Kemp, or a Kemp/Repko platoon - and use that money on pitching. Just my 4 cents.

155 or that.

As far as Elbert goes, maybe this is just a gut (and slightly impatient) prediction ignoring any common sense, but no way do we have to wait til 2009 to have Elbert full time. I see him as 2008 for sure. Maybe even a debut few innings next year.

133 D4P: Who'd ya take the Pol Psych course from at Duke? I probably know him or her.

SF up 4-1 over the Nationals; Robinson just pulled Tony Armas Jr. in the middle of a batter (after Armas threw a ball one wild pitch with the bases loaded to Moises Alou).

Two on, two outs, rookie Saul Rivera to finish Alou's at bat.

160 To be clear, the initial thought came from Jeff Erickson on his XM Fantasy Radio show and I just added my two cents.

I just reread the scouts vs. stats debate from January 2005 (one note, Eddie Bane, head Angel scout but he also worked for the Dodgers, said the best amateur pitching prospect he ever saw was Kiki Jones) and at the end, both sides agreed that there needs to be respect from both sides because you need both in person evaluation and statistical analysis.

169
It was co-taught by John Transue (from Duke) and Marco Steenbergen (from UNC).

137 *speed to cover all that ground, on base, SB good average is what I look for in CF*

Then lofton is your man.

More accurately, Lofton used to be your man for those things. On defense anyway, he's fallen off a cliff. He can't get to nearly as many balls as he used to, and oddly, even when he does get to them, he can't make the catch a good share of the time. I find that baffling, by the way. His BA is still near .300, and while that's an empty .300, it shows that he still has the hand-eye coordination to hit major league pitching. So why can't he catch a fly ball any more? I've never seen anything like it.

nate- I don't think the Cardinals will pick up that option. They are looking to get younger. Edmonds would be a great fit because there's no guarantee that Ethier and Kemp will perform as expected. JD Drew needs a capable backup because he spends a lot of time on the bench (assuming he's not on the DL). Edmonds could come in and play 4 days a week, which would help keep him fresh. We could have a 4 man outfield rotation. Edmonds is from southern California and is also good friends with Drew.

174

How do they replace Edmonds in CF and his offensive production?

So, Chase Utley v. Jeff Weaver at the New Busch Stadium tonight!

175- I wouldn't be surprised to see them trade for Torii Hunter in the offseason. Some people think that he's as good as Edmonds offensively.

172 Huh. I was wrong. I don't know either of them. Or even of them.

The Cards will have one of the more interesting off seasons. They have a lot of money freed up (Mulder, Suppan, Marquis, Weaver, Belliard, Edmonds), although I would think they will focus on who pitches behind Carpenter and Reyes before they focus on offense.

160

Jon, that is an example of why I pretty much stopped posting here...although I do stop in to see what is going on from time to time...I just got tired of being put down for having opinions by the "experts" onsite...

177 Hunter will make $12M next year if his option is picked up, and I'm sure the Cards would rather pay Edmonds $10M than Hunter $12M.

I could see the Cardinals picking up Edmonds' option because they have had such a lack of production from their corner outfield spots.

174 Although I think Jim Edmonds is a great player, I'd want assurances up front that there are no bodily excretions that he would be continually compared with.

He fits the profile, unfortunately: Over 33, big salary, and didn't play in Jacksonville in 2005.

180 I'm aware of that. I definitely feel like good people are being chased away, and I'm going to try to be more aggressive about making this place more welcoming. There are days, I'm well aware, where it becomes insufferable in here.

178
I'm guessing they're both younger than most of your colleagues. They're both late 30s-early 40s.

161, did you really find 155 that funny?

Maybe I should introduce you to my 4-year-old niece. She will have you in stitches.

184 yes, the new wave fans sometimes forget its just a game...maybe statistical analysis helps some, maybe old fashioned eye for talent helps others...but it used to be alot of good natured banter...now it seems like a lot of drawing lines in the sand

for me it was a place to vent frustrations with the bums...but always the fan and always supportive of the team

161 did you really find 155 that funny?

I should introduce you to my 4-year old niece. Her favorite word is "stupid." She will have you in stitches.

sorry for the double post. It didn't show up the first time, until {sigh} I reposted it.

I wouldn't get too down on Maddux for his comments. He's known to be pretty humble, and I'm sure he doesn't want to come in and start spouting unsolicited advice. He's also got to worry about contradicting what the pitching coaches might be saying.

I'm betting, though, that when another pitcher starts picking his brain, he's more than happy to oblige.

Suggested nicknames for Maddux:

1. Dr. Cox ("I'm not a mentor!")

We don't let our five-year-old say "stupid" or "hate." We may relent when he's 21.

By the way, he also is not allowed to say "VORP," but that's really just because I still don't know what it means.

I know many players say they aren't here to be mentors, (such as Brett Favre) but I wish they would do some of it. Not because they have to, but you would think they want to help out their teammates especially the young guys.

I'm afraid I view things this way. If you are a small market team,(or cheap,or crafty),you have to get what you need from teams that aren't.
If you are a high payroll team, you just buy what you need. I certainly feel that Izturis,Aybar, and Baez were no longer in our plans, and we made trades to get rid of them in a convenient way, that had just enough return to not look stupid.
But what we recieved bares no relation to the worth of what we gave up, or to what are needs were. I don't feel we were really taken or cheated, but the trades made little sense.(Or perhaps Little sense.)

190 - agree
191 - Nice reference

Angels and A's are 2-2 in the eighth, in case anyone wants to follow that.

You know, there's actually a movie coming out called "LOL" which I look forward to seeing. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462392/

Don't know if it's "laugh out loud" but could be interesting.

Welcome back Howard, btw, we'll try to keep you around this time.

I'm guessing Maddux is also rebelling against the implication that being just a ballplayer is no longer enough for him. As great as he's been for so long, it must be tough to be told that you have to throw in some coaching to earn your salary.

I still think people are making a Star Trek reference of some sort when I hear VORP bandied about here, so what do I know? Always sounds like either a character, a race or a technology on ST.

185. D4P
I'm guessing they're both younger than most of your colleagues. They're both late 30s-early 40s.

Ouch. So'm I, mate. I looked them up. I know some of their collaborators on their various projects, and it's not my field, but yeah, the fact that they're both younger (in terms of years since PhD) than I am would explain it. I haven't read much pol psych since grad school, and their work is newer than that.

196 Plus, they got past the 7th inning without Payton going deep...

197
I was expecting some Jon Tucker Must Die type garbage, but it might have a chance to be decent. I hope they really disect the effect of technology on human relationships.

192 Now that was funny. If I had to limit the things my son is allowed to say only to words that I know the meaning... well, I'd have a very limited vocabulary.

Howard's back? I'm tempted to break out into song.

174 If the Cards pick up the option, it only costs them an actual $7M to have Edmonds for the year. He makes $10M. If they don't, we offer him $8M, he's getting $11M total. Maybe that would be enough to get him here. Isn't he worth at least as much as Drew? We'd probably save a couple of millions on Doctor bills...

Nationals imploded against the Giants and haven't been able to get anything going against Schmidt all day. Sweep looks very much not likely.

Hopefully, they'll give the Dodgers a little help v. the Padres -- they're something like 1-8 against the Pads the last two seasons so, my expert analysis would be, they're due for a change in luck.

203 Check that, he'd have a very limited vocabulary. That's what makes my comment funny. Which may not be all that funny... ah, never mind.

Seems like Maddux was just saying:

1) I'm here to play.

2) I'm not going to give you The Wit And Wisdom Of Greg Maddux unless you ask.

Neither is terribly controversial.

203 let's not try and make it Howard's End

And 176 was really funny.

200
Ouch. So'm I, mate

Oops, my mistake. Didn't realize you were so young...and Australian...

Is anybody actually watching the Angels/A's matchup? The box for the A's in the top of the fifth is:

- B. Kielty struck out swinging
- M. Scutaro doubled to deep left center
- M. Ellis struck out swinging, M. Scutaro scored on wild pitch
- J. Kendall grounded out to second

So...how exactly did Scutaro score from second on a wild pitch without Ellis making it to first safely?

I thought Howard wasn't posting because he was trapped in my kitchen.

Best movies with Howard in the title:

1) Howard's End
2) Melvin and Howard
3) Howard the Duck

211 the focus was on retrieving the wild pitch and throwing out the runner at first....no one remembered there was a runner advancing from 2nd to 3rd on the pitch

212never trapped in any kitchen...actually don't know there the kitchen is....

One thing about the "mentor" issue is that all the player movement these days probably reduces the incentive to help out. Maddux is at least as likely as not to be on another team in 2 months. Sharing his secrets with likely opponents is probably not high on his to-do list. No, more success for Billingsley won't affect Maddux one way or the other, but why share your secrets any more than you have to?

Back when men were men and baseball players were indentured servants, "teammates" were forever, or at least the likelihood was a lot higher. Now everyone's a free agent - out for themselves. This isn't a character flaw - it's a market reality.

I L'edOL at 183.

On Edmonds, the Cards' lack of weaponry at other positions may lead them to keep him. Regardless, things are going to get bad at Busch Stadium soon. This is a rapidly aging team with no farm.

And is it me, or does it seem Edmonds makes a few too many spectacular catches? I swear I've seen him let up in pursuit of a ball, then catch it Mays-style at the wall when he could've turned and caught it the traditional (and safer) way.

Plus, there is a segment of Cards fans that calls him Mascara Man. They are convinced he wears the stuff on occasion. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Why isn't Milton starting for the As...? I think this is the second day in a row he wasn't in the lineup...

Greetings, all, from Great Big Insurance Company Ball Park on the banks of the beautiful Ohio. I'll try and log in tonight from the ballpark and participate in the game chatter as time permits. I guess I have several hundred comments to catch up on first...

Anyway, for starters, here's an interview with Russell Martin that I did about half an hour ago. The questions are a little odd because they are specific to the particular feature piece I'm working on. The interview is nothing great or revelatory, but I thought it might be of some small interest.

http://www.4shared.com/file/2851174/69967c9f/russmartininterviewaug022006.html

Scroll down to the bottom left of the page and click "download."

Wasn't there a Howard Stern movie called something like "The Howard Stern Movie"?

218

Bradley has been battling "flu-like symptoms"

He has a fever and cowbell won't cure it.

218 Yahoo says: "Aug 2 Sandy Burgin, of Oakland.Athletics.MLB.com, reports Oakland Athletics OF Milton Bradley (flu) was out of the Athletics game Tuesday, August 1, with a 102 degree temperature and a sore throat. The Athletics are hoping he will be available Wednesday, August 2."

D4P I remember you from the old ESPN board. Do you still live in Durham? I just graduated from Duke in May and I live in Chicago now.

Too late. Story of my life.

217

I respectfully decline to comment on St. Louis fans in order to keep up the level of discussion.

220- No, it's called private Parts. I've never seen it.

Loney just hit 2 absolute bombs into the RF bleachers with Mariano pitching batting practice. Hope he shows that power in the game.

They also call him "Jim Ed," which is a name sure to endear him to Southerners, and "Anaheim Jimmy."

224
Wow: are you the poster formerly known as StuckInDukeWithDodgerBlues? If so, I had always wondered what happened to you...

Yeah, I'm still in Durham, hopefully for no more than one more year. Then I hopefully make my escape from the humidity...

As you probably noticed, the ESPN board has fallen apart.

I think that next year, Kemp, Laroche,and Loney are going to be ready and if they get a good chance they are going to establish themselves. They are young and may very well be healthy and need their AB's
Unless something underhanded goes on, it is going to be LOL watching Grits trying to get our messed up SS loaded subs any AB's.

Well, I quit gamedaying the Nationals game in favor of a steady mix of work and Dodger Thoughts, but I just got an email from a buddy hooting about Soriano's two home-run game. (He opened the game with his 7th leadoff shot of the year.)

Just passing that along.

220227 great movie, really

longtime reader - firsttime poster

Ned was just on WFAN here in NYC. Most of you in LA probably get to hear him on LA radio frequently...but for those of us who are not so lucky, log onto www.wfan.com tomorrow where you can stream the archived show...it's somewhere around hour 4 in a 5 hour show.

I caught it towards the end so i can't recap too much - he did mention that he thought Kent could be back by early next week

Wait a minute... we're having a Dump On Jim Edmonds thread and I missed it? I believe he was my first pick in The Griddle's "Dead to Me" thread.

Did anyone mention yet how he runs around in circles under fly balls until he gets in position where he has to dive?

200 Oops, my mistake. Didn't realize you were so young

I'm a week younger than Kenny Lofton, but not as fast.

...and Australian...

And I'm headed to New Zealand in 10 days or so, so I'm practicing.

235

But Edmonds always makes it look so easy!

235 - Please don't say "dump."

Nice interview Eric. You asked those little questions people always wonder about. I like how Russel could not even explain it.

Jim Edmonds is made of concentrated awesome.

240 - And bits of real panther.

231 I'm agreeing with you, the fact that two rookies have become starters is a good sign.

Also, look at what those three guys have done in AAA this year, all have shown improvement and gotten raves from the coaching staff.

I'm hesitant to just hand those jobs to them but they have nothing in AAA to not give them shots in spring training to win those jobs.

236
While in New Zealand I suggest checking out some Maori films. They have a nice little market and they make very good films that not many people get to see.

scot shields needs braces.

I think Scot Shields can only be used so many times by the Angels.

241= very funny. hehe, very very funny.

And I'm headed to New Zealand in 10 days or so, so I'm practicing.

We have two good friends from New Zealand (one of which is a doctoral student at Duke). I always like to hear the different phrases and such that they use. It came up recently that they don't really use the word "closet." If it's a place you put clothes, they usually say "wardrobe." If it's a place you put pretty much anything else, they say "cupboard." I asked them if, when someone announces they're gay, they are said to be "Coming out of the cupboard"...

Bradley has been battling "flu-like symptoms"

In my day, people caught the flu. Now it's flu-like symptoms.

I suspect this innovation is by the same people who think that "utilize" means something somehow different or more precise than "use." More syllables - must be smarter!

I've actually heard talking heads say "use," and then correct themselves "I mean 'u-ti-lize.'"

Feh. Or is "flu-like symptoms" a mandate from malpractice lawyers, who don't want their doctor clients to commit to anything?

Jim Edmonds is interesting. He's been a really good offensive center fielder for years, but his production in that area is down this year. I'm not sure that what it would cost to bring him in would be worth it, although he is better than Kenny Lofton, and possibly Kemp next year. (Possibly.)

"In my day, people caught the flu. Now it's flu-like symptoms."

If the flu had Kenny Speed, nobody could catch it.

I believe "flu-like symptoms" is to differentiate from influenza, which is supposed to be reported to public health authorities.

It's very, very, very likely that Milton Bradley does not have an actual case of influenza. But if he does, maybe it's bird flu. We're doomed! Doomed!

240, 241 Now this is invective I could get into. I'm not even sure if he's being insulted or extolled-- and I don't care! Plus, I don't suddenly get an image of some gross bodily function.

Dig it: Kenny Lofton is a carton o'yesterday! Matt Kemp is a flashdrive of whack!

If the flu had Kenny Speed, nobody could catch it

If everyone had Kenny Glove, nobody could catch the flu.

241

Edmonds is goose bump certified.

I think flu-like symptoms were how they explained Lindsay Lohan's absences from the movie set.

(I loved how the 70-year-old owner of that production company told her he knew it was all b.s.)

245 I agree Bob, I check his usage stats all the time, one thing that the Angels really have not done is address their options outside of Shields and K-Rod this year, Scioscia does not trust Donnelly or Romero, Hector is used sporadically, not sure why he does not give Gregg more chances.

Huston Street = Rollie Fingers, 2 inning save chance.

255
I didn't know cocaine and tequilla produced flu-like symptoms.

234 - Actually, you can find the Colletti interview here:

http://wfan.com/chrismikeaudio/

It's already up, and it's just the interview with colletti, so no searching necessary.

253 - LOL.

Kenny Lofton: You can't catch him, and he can't catch anything.

James Loney is a two-liter of kablooie!

Mean Girls was on HBO today. Sigh... what once was.

I believe "flu-like symptoms" is to differentiate from influenza, which is supposed to be reported to public health authorities.

A-ha! So it IS the lawyers.

261-

Are you talking about Lindsey Lohan?

Discussion topic: Is Jim Edmonds a Hall Of Famer?

I say yes, he has the 36th highest OPS of all time amongst players with 5000 at bats, behind only Cobb, Mantle, and Mays for centerfielders. Also, he has a career 138 OPS+ (minimum 3000 PA), good for 82nd all time. Combine this with defense that isn't just superfically good (career 107 rate2) and you have one of the best centerfielders ever.

Street went through the big three of the Angels lineup in 11 pitches.

138 OPS....is that good? I'm not a numbers guy

264

Jim Edmonds won't make the Hall of Fame unless the Cardinals win a bunch of World Series.

264-

I think he's a slam-dunk hall of famer. He's arguably the best center fielder of the nineties, right?

267 that goes for Ernie Banks and the Cubs too

266 It's 82nd all time.

I'm pretty sure, but of course have limited data and knowledge. I'm just afraid the politics of having to play Kent,Betemit,and
Yugo because "look what we gave up to get 'em" will interfere with anyone getting a good chance.

259 - thanks for that, gotta love the interweb

264

being a football player really helped his D, no?

242 former post addressed to 242

271-

I don't think we gave up anything to get Kent. We signed him as a free agent, though I suppose we lost draft picks.

Ernie Banks was a shortstop for part of his career and hit a lot of home runs in an era that didn't have as many as now.

I just don't think Edmonds has the sufficient background to make into the HOF. He doesn't have MVP awards. He doesn't have a lot of ASG appearances.

Besides, he's no Chick Hafey!

261 Nate you are of age where sighing after Lindsay Lohan won't be considered, hmmmm, well lets not go there.

My wife had a comical run-in with Edmonds recently. She works at an airline, and didn't recognize him when he came up to check in. Her airline is one that wants everyone to use the kiosk to check in, so she directed him toward an open one. He said he didn't know how, so she started teasing him, saying it was real easy, "like using an ATM except you don't get any money out of it." Edmonds' friend started laughing and Edmonds started blushing, and said he usually has someone handling these things for him. She finally had to walk him through it, taking verbal jabs at him the whole way.

Afterward, a friend gave her the "do you know who that was?" speech. But she saw him later at the gate and apologized, and he just laughed it off.

So we can add to Jimmy's report card:
Runs down fly ball? A
Offense? B
Faking degree of difficulty? A+
Handling computerized devices? F
Sense of humor: A

259

i'm hearing the interview right now, the first thing that came to mind was NY accent (sp?)

277

Im still in college and Lohan is basically my age or a little bit younger. Its perfectly normal!

279
Chicago accent.

275- Kent didn't cost a draft pick. I guess the Astros didn't offer arbitration to him? Lowe cost a first round pick that year, though.

276-

Just to make the argument for Edmonds, he has no MVP's, but he also played for the Angels who were an irrelevant franchise for his entire career there, and when he went to St. Louis he was never clearly the best player on the team.

I don't put a lot of stock in the All-Star appearances thing because guys like Lance Carter make it in.

Also, through this era, center field is not a great power position. I'd put CF smack in the middle of offensive plus positions like LF, RF, 1B, 3B and the Offensive minus positions like SS, 2B, and C.

So, there's my argument for Edmonds for the HOF, a player I don't even like.

271 Kent will be here short of injury. Betemit will also be here unless a good deal for a team looking for a 3B comes over the wire. Lugo will be gone, he is going to go FA route. I don't think the prospect of sitting will go well with him so even an arbitration offer won't likely keep him.

Kent isn't blocking anyone close (Abreu will be in AAA, Dewitt in AA next year) Betemit might get the nod over Laroche initially, I think they will want to see how is shoulder is after the season.

You can pencil Matt in CF next year, if not next month.

Loney has made the 1B job very interesting, well I do think Nomar has some cache both as a player and as a "face" for the team, he too if he can make it through the season will be approached by some teams, maybe even that down south and we could use those picks considering we will probably go after some pitching.

284

Betemit, with winterball to work on his defense at 2b, could be a solid, cheaper, younger option then Kent next year.

280 That's what I meant, it was for some of us slightly older guys that I was talking about, you go ahead.

final, A's 3-2

Street gets the rare 6 out save, Angel talk will be filled with callers saying we should have traded half of Salt Lake for Soriano or Tejada.

According the HOF Monitor at Baseball-Reference.com, Jim Edmonds scores an 83.5, with 100 being considered a borderline HoFer. Considering the high offensive standards of his era, I think he's going to fall short even if he puts up a few more decent seasons.

Sam - You guys got Benetiz in the game though he only has one out to get.

Mike Stanton in for the save in San Francisco!

288 What's this "we" business?

This isn't 6-4-2. On Dodger Thoughts, the royal "we" refers to the Dodgers.

I hate^H^H^H^H strongly dislike the Angels almost as much as the Giants.

And the Giants 9-game slide ends. The Dodgers had one of 8 games. So who in the NL West is going to have a 10-game slide?

293 The NL West = Chutes and Ladders, v2.0?

292 Sorry, I was using the "we" in the context of the callers but I should have used "they".

Like every Giants losing streak, it was fun while it lasted. Still, we could be alone in 3rd by days end (thereby justifying our "deadline buyers" positioning).

They just replayed how the A's scored their run on a third strike, it was a wild pitch and when Molina threw to first, Kendrick did not realize that the runner on second was still running and he scored without a throw.

293

I hope the Nuns

Why Bill Stoneman couldn't land Craig Wilson before the non-waiver deadline is beyond me.

297 This is why you can't get rid of Erstad.

252 - "Matt Kemp is a flashdrive of whack!"

Maybe the biggest LOL for me in the DT comments, ever.

On the subject of the Angels, I have no strong feelings about them, but I feel obligated to hate them when I watch their games against Oakland. Physioc and Hudler do their "battle of ideologies" bit every time, and the conclusion is reached that until Oakland beats Anaheim for the division, their idealogy is not as good.

Of course, nobody brings up how the Angels payroll dwarfs Oakland's, or Oakland actually won the division a few years ago, but whatever.

302 If there's on phrase I've come to hate from Angel fans, it's "summer champions".

252 301 Almost sounds like they were dipping into the jargon dictionary from the movie BRICK. And I dig it, I do.

301

I don't get it, but to each his own.

If the Dodgers, DBacks, and Astros all win today then there will be a 3-way tie among the Padres, Reds, and DBacks for the last two playoff spots in the NL.

297 - Kendrick should be in the lineup, but at second base not first base where he has never played before.

299 - Me too.

300 - Erstad is done. Forget him. They should have picked up somebody like a Wilson, Casey or Broussard though. Playing rookies out of position is a crime at this time of year. Stoneman should have signed Piazza in the off-season as a first baseman, catcher and DH but was instead focused solely on Konerko. Same thing now with Tejada and he forgot about the other solutions like Wilson and so forth.

Flu-Like Symptoms is a sign of the times. Doctors, like lawyers and nearly everyone else, don't want to make a statement they can be held accountable for. If he said you had the Flu and it turned out to be pneumonia or the bubonic plague, that would be a heck of a nice mal-practice suit. So now, it just appears to be flu-like symptoms, lots of wiggle room....

307 - Dammit, I forgot about Broussard. Didn't Seattle get him for 6 pounds of Chinook and a crate of red delicious?

309 No, they got completely burned and sent them Shin Soo Choo.

305 I just wanted to encourage some creativity in the putdowns as well as the praise. It's fine with me if you believe it is foolish to play Kenny Lofton, but if you want to say that, I hope you'll find a way of putting it that no one has ever used before.

Signed,

Mary Poppins

Game thread is open. Thought I'd forgotten, didn't you?

How many teams have won the WS with Kenny Lofton on their 25-man roster?

313 - Eh, how many won with Ted Williams?

I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if someone else has raised this.

A good case could be made for Russ Martin to be the MVP, especially if he keeps this pace up.

Calling a game, checking runners and all the ancillary things he does do not always show up in the boxscore, and thus, can't be measured by a statistic.

I love Nomar and Ethier, but Russ Martin is the heart and soul of this team!