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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

As We Race Toward the Ban of All Betemit Puns ...
2006-08-02 16:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

A young fan in Cincinnati, down near the dugout, 40 minutes before game time, wonders wistfully if her team can do better than Edwin Encarnacion at third base. Edwin's a good man, a decent man, but even so, is it possible he can't satisfy her? She breathes deep; she can't think of anything else ...

Waitin', watchin' the clock, it's four o' clock, it's got to stop
Tell him, take no more, she practices her speech
As he opens the door, she rolls over
Pretends to sleep as he looks her over
She lies and says she's in love with him, can't find a Betemit
She dreams in color, she dreams of Reds, can't find a Betemit
Can't find a Betemit
Can't find a Betemit
Ohh ...

* * *

Today's Game

P.S.: I made a guest appearance today online at Outsider Radio with Brandon Rosage.

Comments (641)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-02 16:04:38
1.   Bluebleeder87
how can I hear you're interview Jon?
2006-08-02 16:08:55
2.   confucius
I'm really ashamed that I laughed at that.
2006-08-02 16:08:57
3.   Marty
I didn't know you were a Pearljam fan Jon. I really like that album.
2006-08-02 16:10:21
4.   Bluebleeder87
Nevermind I'm hearing it as I type.

ps Pearl Jam rocks!

2006-08-02 16:11:01
5.   Jon Weisman
That's my favorite song of theirs - I'm by no means an expert on them.
2006-08-02 16:11:42
6.   Bob Timmermann
The moment has passed, but I will bring this up from the other thread.

"Flu-like symptoms" was created not to satisfy lawyers as much as it was to be medically precise. Nearly everybody has "flu-like symptoms" at some time. But not everybody gets the "flu." Lawyers don't care. Doctors do. Real cases of influenza have treatments with certain drugs. Most "flu-like symptoms" turn out to be some passing virus and they go away on their own

2006-08-02 16:11:57
7.   confucius
Lyons' scouting report makes this pitcher sound like a joke.
2006-08-02 16:12:43
8.   Jacob L
How far in is your interview, Jon? I can't listen to all 1.5 hours.
2006-08-02 16:15:31
9.   King of the Hobos
This week's SI has a small article on Rocco Baldelli's artwork, styrofoam cups that he carved portraits into using a sunflower seed. He carved 3 portraits of his teammates: Lugo, Hendrickson, and Hall. Can he please do Kazmir next?
2006-08-02 16:15:56
10.   Jon Weisman
8 - I don't know. I didn't listen to it, I just gave it.

Don't go to any trouble. I didn't really say anything there I haven't said here.

2006-08-02 16:16:04
11.   Steve
I wouldn't want anything Danys Baez had.
2006-08-02 16:16:43
12.   Eric Enders
Jon, I always thought that one was "Can't find the butter, ma'am."

Then there's another song by Pearl Jam that contains the great and oxymoronic Mondegeen "two-inch Mo Vaughn." Can't remember which song that's in, though.

(If anyone has a chance to see PJ on their current tour, by the way, do it. Awesome show.)

2006-08-02 16:17:25
13.   Humma Kavula
The reds radio guys are discussing lugo's shoes and asking each other if they wear pajamas.

I am scarred for life.

2006-08-02 16:19:03
14.   Jon Weisman
12 - Is that the version sung by Marlon Brando in "Last Tango in Paris?"
2006-08-02 16:19:11
15.   Bob Timmermann
13
That's Marty Brennaman you're listening to there. Father of Thom.

He's beloved in Cincinnati.

But so is that weird chili.

2006-08-02 16:20:16
16.   Bluebleeder87
10 *I don't know. I didn't listen to it, I just gave it.

Don't go to any trouble.*

are you kiddimg me!!!

2006-08-02 16:22:13
17.   Jacob L
1016 - Yeah, I'm a big fan of Jon on the radio, even if the content is no different. This show's got too much background music, though, and I haven't found any of the internet writer interviews yet.
2006-08-02 16:22:46
18.   Bob Timmermann
So what happens if Ryan Freel steals five bases in this game? Do the Dodgers go get another catcher?
2006-08-02 16:22:52
19.   trainwreck
My favorite Pearl Jam songs are Black and Do the Evolution.
2006-08-02 16:23:18
20.   LetsGoDodgers
Don't know if this has been covered, but apparently TBS and the Braves did a riff on the Betemit trade with clips from "Castaway". I'd love to find it online.
2006-08-02 16:23:27
21.   Eric Enders
10 But the soothing sound of your voice is the key, Jon.
2006-08-02 16:24:13
22.   Eric Enders
Bad call I think.
2006-08-02 16:24:59
23.   Bluebleeder87
he was out no?
2006-08-02 16:25:18
24.   StolenMonkey86
Is Penny still throwing up in the upper 90s?
2006-08-02 16:25:33
25.   Eric Enders
Both live and on the replay, he looked like he was safe.
2006-08-02 16:26:01
26.   Eric Enders
Penny's last pitch was a 91 mph fastball
2006-08-02 16:28:02
27.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps Penny is easing up today since throwing 95-98 wasn't working.

Or he hasn't warmed up enough yet.

Or the Reds just have a slow radar gun.

Or ....

2006-08-02 16:29:40
28.   SCRocks
27.

Penny is learning that location is just as important as velocity?

2006-08-02 16:29:57
29.   Bluebleeder87
19

do the evolution is cool

2006-08-02 16:30:20
30.   StolenMonkey86
27 - or he wants to be like Sandy Koufax.

Before my time, so I cite Wikipedia
Koufax showed back up for the 1961 season in better condition than he had in previous years. Over the winter, he decided to start working out and running more. Koufax also decided to find out just how good he could be. During a spring training trip to Orlando, Dodgers catcher Norm Sherry told Koufax the same thing that many others had in the past: stop throwing the ball so hard. In the first inning of the game in Orlando, Koufax walked the bases loaded on 12 straight pitches. Again, Sherry told him to take something off the ball to get better control. Koufax finally listened and struck out the side. By the time he came out of the game after seven innings, Koufax had struck out eight batters, walked five and given up no hits.

2006-08-02 16:30:23
31.   bhsportsguy
18 Don't go there Bob. I think Jason Phillips is playing somewhere.
2006-08-02 16:30:30
32.   Marty
14 I can't believe you said that.
2006-08-02 16:30:50
33.   Bluebleeder87
27

I know for fact that the Reds gun is slow.

2006-08-02 16:31:45
34.   StolenMonkey86
33 - or that
2006-08-02 16:32:39
35.   Bob Timmermann
33

You got a job calibrating the radar gun in Cincinnati?

2006-08-02 16:32:42
36.   Claire Malone-Evans
Second base umpire James Joyce is not capable of making a bad call. Here is a good quote from James Joyce: " A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are portals of discovery."
2006-08-02 16:33:07
37.   Andrew Shimmin
Penny hit 96 with one of his pitches.
2006-08-02 16:33:28
38.   Bob Timmermann
Too bad Vin isn't on the trip because he is a huge fan of James Joyce.
2006-08-02 16:34:04
39.   Marty
I like Spin the Black Circle, Nothingman and This is not for You on that album.
2006-08-02 16:34:13
40.   Bob Timmermann
The offense has gone stagnant! I demand more trades!
2006-08-02 16:35:21
41.   Bluebleeder87
I'm glad my boy Russell Martin, got Freel, remember that game at DS were he stole like 5 bases on poor Jason Phillips? (take that Freel!)
2006-08-02 16:36:26
42.   Andrew Shimmin
95 on the first pitch this inning. 96 on the third (though, it did bounce).
2006-08-02 16:38:18
43.   Bluebleeder87
the remake of that 70's song is pretty cool, I heard they did it in one take.
2006-08-02 16:38:47
44.   Bluebleeder87
42

toped out at 97.

2006-08-02 16:40:09
45.   StolenMonkey86
or maybe Penny was just getting warmed up in the first
2006-08-02 16:40:23
46.   Steve
Shortstops! We must have more shortstops!
2006-08-02 16:40:34
47.   Eric Enders
32 Yeah, Jon's 14 didn't really get its due props for being hilarious.
2006-08-02 16:42:02
48.   Jacob L
That must have been a tough interview Jon, because the host was definitely pushing the "Dodgers are the big deadline movers and shakers" angle, and he seemed like he just wanted you to say how excited you were. You did a good job representing that there's a range of opinion, and possibly a steep cost with the deals, and that steep cost is not the loss of Izturis.
2006-08-02 16:42:53
49.   The Anc
Pearl Jam's new album is also excellent.
2006-08-02 16:43:32
50.   StolenMonkey86
hey Lugo can catch a pop-up!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-02 16:44:54
51.   StolenMonkey86
Ross' OPS drops to 1.067
2006-08-02 16:45:39
52.   bhsportsguy
This may sound strange, but I am excited about seeing Maddux pitch tomorrow.
2006-08-02 16:47:09
53.   trainwreck
JAWFL
2006-08-02 16:47:34
54.   StolenMonkey86
And I walk aLoney
2006-08-02 16:47:54
55.   Eric Enders
How many former shortstops could the Dodgers trot out on the field if they really tried?

C Martin (high school)
1B Nomar
2B Lugo
3B Mueller
SS Furcal
LF Betemit
CF Repko (drafted as SS)
RF Martinez

Looks like the answer is 9 if we can find a pitcher.

2006-08-02 16:48:15
56.   Bluebleeder87
wow Penny looked clueless bunting.
2006-08-02 16:49:50
57.   Eric Enders
He did not look clueless swinging the bat however.
2006-08-02 16:50:13
58.   Bluebleeder87
he dons't look cluesless hitting the ball though.
2006-08-02 16:50:14
59.   trainwreck
Loney looks goofy while running.
2006-08-02 16:50:19
60.   Steve
A double Weaver!
2006-08-02 16:50:23
61.   Marty
The Penny Gameday photo looks like his hat is too small and Ramirez' looks like his hat is way too big.
2006-08-02 16:50:45
62.   Bluebleeder87
man that feels so good when you hit the ball that hard.
2006-08-02 16:51:16
63.   StolenMonkey86
ok. Brad Penny gets the offense going.
2006-08-02 16:51:37
64.   Marty
The " z' " was for Sam.
2006-08-02 16:51:39
65.   bhsportsguy
Great, all we need is big Brad running the bases.

Nice hit Brad.

2006-08-02 16:52:00
66.   jasonungar05
My favorite pearl Jam song is "release me" lyrics by Toby Hall
2006-08-02 16:52:19
67.   trainwreck
Griffey just got Loftoned.
2006-08-02 16:52:54
68.   Steve
We should have offered Lofton to the Reds so they could improve their centerfielder's arm.
2006-08-02 16:52:57
69.   StolenMonkey86
Griffey couldn't throw Penny out? I guess Lofton feels better about himself now.
2006-08-02 16:53:11
70.   natepurcell
Ramirez fell apart really quick. Very jeff weaver like.
2006-08-02 16:53:16
71.   Eric Enders
There's my man Kenny.
2006-08-02 16:53:29
72.   overkill94
Our offense is en fuego
2006-08-02 16:53:35
73.   bhsportsguy
67 Hey I saw Kenny throw someone out personally, so I guess miracles do happen.
2006-08-02 16:53:41
74.   StolenMonkey86
we need a homer to have the cycle for the inning
2006-08-02 16:54:06
75.   bhsportsguy
70 Speaking of Jeff, has Chase got a hit yet.
2006-08-02 16:54:11
76.   Steve
Or another Lofton's arm joke!
2006-08-02 16:54:23
77.   Jon Weisman
72 - Will it be en lugo?
2006-08-02 16:55:25
78.   dzzrtRatt
Appropriateness alert!

24. StolenMonkey86
Is Penny still throwing up in the upper 90s?

2006-08-02 16:57:18
79.   natepurcell
Good AB by Lugo.
2006-08-02 16:57:21
80.   dzzrtRatt
When I first heard the Dodgers got Wilson Betemit, of course I immediately thought of the Andrews Sisters:

In a little honky-tonky village in Texas
There's a guy who plays the best piano by far
He can play piano any way that you like it
But the way he likes to play is eight to the bar
When he plays, it's a ball
He's the daddy of them all

The people gather around when he gets on the stand
Then when he plays, he gets a hand
The rhythm he beats puts the cats in a trance
Nobody there bothers to dance
But when he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler out, "Betemit Daddy, eight to the bar"

A-plink, a-plank, a-plink plank, plink plank
A-plunkin' on the keys
A-riff, a-raff, a-riff raff, riff raff
A-riffin' out with ease
And when he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler out, "Betemit Daddy, eight to the bar"

He plays a boogie, he plays eight to the bar
A boogie-woogie, that is the way he likes to play on his piano
And we all know
That when he plays he puts them all in a trance
The cats all holler "Hooray"
You'll hear them say, "Betemit Daddy, eight to the bar"

2006-08-02 16:57:59
81.   overkill94
JARBIFD
2006-08-02 16:58:03
82.   King of the Hobos
Vegas is currently playing with a 1 man bench since Guzman left (although the last few days were in an NL park, so no DH meant a 2 man bench). Eric Langill is the only player on the bench, and he's about as athletic as Jason Phillips. If they have some injuries tonight, we could see some pitchers in the OF.
2006-08-02 16:58:25
83.   Steve
The Reds are terrible. The National League should be disbanded if they make the playoffs.
2006-08-02 16:58:30
84.   Jacob L
80 Um, yeah. I think we all did.
2006-08-02 16:59:33
85.   Eric Enders
78 That's like the classic Jerry Colemanism "Rich Folkers is throwing up in the bullpen."

Almost as good as the one about Dave Winfield's head rolling back toward the infield.

2006-08-02 16:59:38
86.   Jon Weisman
82 - Really? That's pretty newsworthy, actually.

83 - I forsee the NL being disbanded if the wild card team is any criterion, no matter who that team is.

2006-08-02 17:01:37
87.   trainwreck
Is there a pitch Betemit won't swing at?
2006-08-02 17:01:56
88.   overkill94
14 "So you never saw Last Tango in Paris? Too bad, it was erotic"

(Since I've never seen the movie, I'm gonna have to use the only quote I know about it to feign knowledge)

2006-08-02 17:02:04
89.   Jacob L
The third inning, by the way, is officially the beer inning. Third inning is the beer inning.
2006-08-02 17:02:23
90.   StolenMonkey86
oh well. 9 batters in an inning is still pretty good.
2006-08-02 17:02:33
91.   dzzrtRatt
84 oh well. I was afraid Vin Scully had beaten me to it, but not this young hep crowd on DT.
2006-08-02 17:03:16
92.   StolenMonkey86
87- the first pitch was a called strike
2006-08-02 17:03:59
93.   overkill94
89 Which has coincided with the 2nd time through the order the last two games. Coincidence? I think not.
2006-08-02 17:04:10
94.   Vishal
i sang it as i read it. that was great :)
2006-08-02 17:05:20
95.   Marty
I thought Last Tango was boring when I saw it during it's first run. I tried to watch it the other day on cable and still couldn't sit through it.
2006-08-02 17:05:51
96.   underdog
82 Wow. They need to call someone up from Jax or sign a couple of journeymen at least.

81 Sometimes reading the comments here is like trying to unlock the Secret of acroNIMH.

Oops, Furcal'd.

2006-08-02 17:06:07
97.   overkill94
Uh oh, bad Furcal makes another appearance....
2006-08-02 17:06:14
98.   Eric Enders
That was just like the play last night, except it looks like the ump got it right this time.
2006-08-02 17:06:14
99.   StolenMonkey86
well, that one had to happen sometime
2006-08-02 17:06:46
100.   Bluebleeder87
he was safe, Furcal's eratic arm makes an apperance
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-02 17:10:40
101.   Bluebleeder87
the family jewels
2006-08-02 17:11:21
102.   underdog
Jeez, freel fee to end this at bat at some point, Ryan.
2006-08-02 17:12:51
103.   Bluebleeder87
great strike out by Penny
2006-08-02 17:13:18
104.   StolenMonkey86
Dear advertisers, I am disgusted with the way old people are depicted on television. We are not all vibrant fun-loving sex maniacs. Many of us are bitter, resentful individuals who remember the good old days, when entertainment was bland and inoffensive. The following is a list of words I never want to hear on televison again. #1-Bra. #2-Horny. #3-Family Jewels.

- Abraham Simpson

2006-08-02 17:14:39
105.   Nagman
59 I was trying to figure out who Loney reminded me of when he ran, and if finally came to me... Bill Buckner.

I assume he's faster.

2006-08-02 17:14:40
106.   Big Game
I'm sitting in my record shop and for the third time in as many weeks, a man in a tie came in to sell me dodgers tickets. He says hes 'with the Dodgers' and its some special offer but the tickets are the same price as anywhere else.

Its getting annoying, as I already have a season ticket package and have told the previous two gentlemen the same thing. grrrrrr.

2006-08-02 17:15:57
107.   StolenMonkey86
Marting grounds out to third again
2006-08-02 17:16:23
108.   Bob Timmermann
They are giving away free tickets for Monday's game at my workplace. Section 39 at Dodger Stadium Monday will be quite rowdy! You don't want to see a bunch of library staffers liquored up.
2006-08-02 17:16:49
109.   natepurcell
Loney the Hacker.
2006-08-02 17:17:04
110.   StolenMonkey86
Loney walks again
2006-08-02 17:17:36
111.   Disabled List
Pearl Jam's new album is really terrific, btw. Their best in years.
2006-08-02 17:18:50
112.   Big Game
I guess it wouldnt be so bad if the salespeople didnt have the tact of a late 70's stereo system salesman.
2006-08-02 17:19:32
113.   Jacob L
Penny should try to hit a double, or something.
2006-08-02 17:19:49
114.   Nagman
My favorite PJ song by far is "Yellow Ledbetter". Some of the best mumbling I've ever heard, the lyrics are a complete mystery.
2006-08-02 17:19:52
115.   underdog
Loney walked again, but Penny was too tired to double again so he decided it was better if he just struck out.
2006-08-02 17:20:30
116.   Eric Enders
111 The best song being "Marker in the Sand" IMO.

I'm still racking my brain trying to remember which song has that Mo Vaughn line in it.

2006-08-02 17:21:22
117.   Eric Enders
The juxtaposition of 111 and 112 was pretty funny.
2006-08-02 17:21:22
118.   Bluebleeder87
108 You don't want to see a bunch of library staffers liquored up.

I'd actually pay to see that Bob.

2006-08-02 17:21:30
119.   Bob Timmermann
Utley makes an out in his first at bat in St. Louis against Jeff Weaver.
2006-08-02 17:21:38
120.   Berkeley Doug
And in St. Louis - Utley grounds out in his first AB.
2006-08-02 17:21:40
121.   underdog
I'll take early REM era Michael Stipe over Eddie Vedder in a mumble-off, though.
2006-08-02 17:21:50
122.   Big Game
114.

Seconded. Its the only song of thiers I can tolerate, actually.

2006-08-02 17:21:53
123.   Jacob L
Utley grounded out, btw, in his first ab against the Weave.
2006-08-02 17:22:11
124.   Eric Enders
I don't remember the young Buckner but watching Loney go on that pitch, I find it hard to believe Loney's faster.
2006-08-02 17:22:22
125.   Berkeley Doug
119 Bob - How was the trip to Berkeley this past weekend?
2006-08-02 17:23:03
126.   Nagman
121 - Yes, "Murmur" was exactly a bunch of that.
2006-08-02 17:23:11
127.   27indigo
114 http://tinyurl.com/o7zxs
2006-08-02 17:24:16
128.   Nagman
124 - I meant the aging, gimpy Buckner. It was painful to watch him run.
2006-08-02 17:24:31
129.   Bluebleeder87
114

I heard the only people that now what the song means are the band members.

2006-08-02 17:24:57
130.   underdog
Tigers have two steals vs. Dioner Navarro today so far, if anyone's counting.
2006-08-02 17:25:31
131.   trainwreck
payback's a mother.
2006-08-02 17:26:03
132.   Bob Timmermann
125
Shh.... That mission was top secret....

Berkeley is a lot different from 1987-88 when I went there.

For starters, there weren't any Starbucks. And there wasn't much development around 4th Street.

I wanted to go up to the sign on Oxford that read "University of California" and add a ", Berkeley" to it.

If you are dining at the restaurant half of Chez Panisse, I recommend you get whatever they deem worthy of putting in front of you.

My rental car, which was supposed to be something small, turned out to be a Chrysler 300, which is the size of a container ship and was not conducive for driving around Berkeley, which is the city that leans left in everything political, but makes it very hard for any car to turn left.

2006-08-02 17:26:13
133.   underdog
Ooops. Apparently Junior can still hit...
2006-08-02 17:27:38
134.   Bluebleeder87
Ken Griffey Jr. getting hurt the last 3-4 years reall upset me (as a fan)
2006-08-02 17:27:40
135.   StolenMonkey86
Ok, Brad. That's good enough for my fantasy team. Just get the rest of them out.
2006-08-02 17:27:45
136.   bigcpa
First of all, I coined "can't find a Betemit" on Saturday. Secondly I've seen Pearl Jam 21 times and renounce all Vedder/Stipe comparisons.
2006-08-02 17:28:05
137.   underdog
132 Also, Cody's just closed. :-( (there's a nice one in SF now, but the original's gone. Sigh. Boycott Amazon!)
2006-08-02 17:28:42
138.   underdog
Oops, apparently Hatteberg can still hit.

(Argh.)

2006-08-02 17:30:54
139.   Disabled List
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/yellowledbetter.html

Even after having read that, I really don't understand the song any better.

2006-08-02 17:31:08
140.   Jon Weisman
136 - Did you set the scene provocatively?
2006-08-02 17:31:37
141.   bigcpa
114 Yellow Ledbetter in its original form was about a nightmare Eddie had where his girlfriend ran off with someone else. It had a good line about grieving where he says "I don't know whether I'm the boxer or the bag." In recent years the song morphed into a war protest song (big shock there!) where Eddie sings "my brother is coming home either in a box or a bag."
2006-08-02 17:31:47
142.   Bob Timmermann
My girlfriend was upset that most places in Berkeley didn't have public restrooms. I told her that it was for a good reason. Large numbers of homeless people and college students do not lead to clean bathrooms.
2006-08-02 17:32:53
143.   Berkeley Doug
132 Berkeley has changed a lot in the 13 years I've lived there and from the time I used to cut high school and hang out in Berkeley. Telegraph Avenue used to much cleaner (which in a way is one of reasons for Cody's closing).
2006-08-02 17:32:56
144.   Steve
Griffey hit an ok pitch. Hatteberg, not so much.
2006-08-02 17:34:05
145.   bigcpa
140 Ok you gave it more context but the chorus is the payoff anyway.

If we can get a Charlie Kaufman movie analysis going here we could pull off the trifecta of my three favorite obssessions in one thread.

2006-08-02 17:34:31
146.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
136 - Has anyone claimed "Betemit sandwich?"
2006-08-02 17:34:36
147.   Bob Timmermann
22 straight scoreless innings for Jeremy Sowers. He just needs 37 more to tie Hershiser.
2006-08-02 17:34:56
148.   Berkeley Doug
The restroom in Cody's was a testament to your theory.

Moe's has always had a public restroom since the founder wanted a place for homeless people to be able to use the restroom.

2006-08-02 17:35:40
149.   Jacob L
142 I'm quite sure I'd have an easier time finding a place to relieve myself in Berkeley than in much of LA, particularly downtown. For example, all of the campus buidlings have bathrooms.
2006-08-02 17:36:12
150.   Disabled List
145 "Being John Malkovich" was overrated and pretentious. Discuss.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-02 17:36:28
151.   bigcpa
146 You mean vegemite sandwich? I always thought that was "He just smiled and gave me a bite of my sandwich."
2006-08-02 17:37:08
152.   Eric Enders
I always figured it had something to do with Leadbelly, whose real name was Huddie (pronounced like the blowfish) Ledbetter.
2006-08-02 17:37:25
153.   bigcpa
150 Second half with the dwarves- agreed. First half was outstanding. I would limit the discussion to Adaptation and Eternal Sunshine.
2006-08-02 17:37:34
154.   Borchard504
I miss the s*&$ outa Great American...Lived there for two years 04-05, and luvved it when the Dodgers rolled in.
There's a lot to be said for the stadiums along a body of water... Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, San Francisco, - where else?
2006-08-02 17:37:39
155.   Berkeley Doug
This past weekend for my birthday, my gf gave me a trip to LA and tickets to the Dodger games on Saturday and Sunday.

I hadn't been to the Taj Mahal of baseball stadiums in a couple of years and one of the things that stood out compared to other stadiums is I never had to wait in line more than a few minutes for food. Last weekn when I saw the Red Sox in Oakland, it took an innning and half to geet a couple of hot dogs!

2006-08-02 17:37:56
156.   natepurcell
Lugo is the anti izturis with the bat.
2006-08-02 17:38:25
157.   StolenMonkey86
Lugo took an extra pitch to walk.
2006-08-02 17:39:13
158.   Telemachos
145 "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" is the best unsung film of the last couple years.
2006-08-02 17:39:17
159.   dzzrtRatt
155 Gosh, I hate to break it to you Doug, but unless you're at a game nobody wants to see, that's pretty much what's happened at Chavez Ravine. The past two years, there's been a marked decline in service and longer lines, so much so that Jon has written about it, and I think other media as well.
2006-08-02 17:39:33
160.   Marty
146 I do, from a couple days ago.
2006-08-02 17:39:40
161.   Jon Weisman
150 - I disagree, completely. It was emotionally true and sweet.
2006-08-02 17:39:48
162.   underdog
That was a nice at bat by Lugo.

150 No way! It's one of the most creative scripts in a long time, though I like Eternal Sunshine a lot more. Adaptation is overrated though (even though at least half of it is perfect).

2006-08-02 17:39:53
163.   Bluebleeder87
141

I didn't wanna know that, but I did wanna know that.

2006-08-02 17:40:21
164.   dzzrtRatt
158 I just saw that for the first time a couple of weeks ago. You are correct. That movie is profound and funny and weird and really great.

Not on the same level, but also an indy film you might enjoy: The Station Agent.

2006-08-02 17:40:58
165.   Berkeley Doug
149

My experience, is in Berkeley many people don't worry about finding a restroom if they need to go to the restroom, if you know what I mean.

Walking home one evening there was a blind guy going against a car, which also happened to be a convertible with the top down.

2006-08-02 17:41:31
166.   Eric Enders
150 I don't know, but I was always partial to the rumor that Cameron Diaz was so obnoxious on set that she became the basis for the Anna Faris character in "Lost in Translation."
2006-08-02 17:41:43
167.   trainwreck
Nicholas Cage ruins movies for me.
2006-08-02 17:42:16
168.   bigcpa
Eternal Sunshine rewards multiple viewings more than anything I can think of. I spent three viewings trying to figure out the timeline when it finally hit me it was the most romantic movie I ever saw.
2006-08-02 17:42:19
169.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
151 - It's Vegemite. Because they come from the land Down Under.
2006-08-02 17:42:34
170.   Jon Weisman
BJM is better than ESOTM and way better than A.

The Truman Show may be better than all of them. That movie has been forgotten too quickly.

2006-08-02 17:42:53
171.   Jacob L
I think Malkovich has a lot to recommend it, not the least of which is the fact that, despite starring Cusack and Cameron Diaz, Catherine Keener is the sex symbol.

I also worked in the building where they filmed the 1/2 floor scenes. I remember people in the building trying to explain the concept of the 1/2 floor and the story about Malkovich's head, and thinking, this is going to be a different kind of movie.

2006-08-02 17:43:02
172.   Eric Enders
155 I believe I can see Jim Bunning's house from here.
2006-08-02 17:43:31
173.   Disabled List
153 Yeah, but I liked those two movies. I just went through an ugly break-up, so I've been wishing the brain-scrubbing service from "Sunshine" really existed.

I should watch that one again. Maybe not.

2006-08-02 17:43:31
174.   trainwreck
If you like love stories and complicated use of time then I highly suggest a Thai film called Last Life in the Universe.
2006-08-02 17:44:11
175.   Eric Enders
172 referred to 154.

I should quit linking to posts, because 75% of the time I link to the wrong one.

2006-08-02 17:44:18
176.   natepurcell
3.5 delivers. that was hit really hard.
2006-08-02 17:44:20
177.   Berkeley Doug
Out in St. Loius - Utley grounds out again.
2006-08-02 17:44:49
178.   dzzrtRatt
154 Dodger Stadium isn't too far from the Los Angeles River, or at least its original course.
2006-08-02 17:45:08
179.   underdog
Ahh, I love seeing "Coaching visit to mound." for the opposing team, when following on GameDay.
2006-08-02 17:45:33
180.   bigcpa
170 I can't believe you, writer guy, didn't love Adaptation. When he's dictating the screenplay as it unfolds and he catches up to the scene where he's dictating. That made milk come out of my nose.
2006-08-02 17:45:37
181.   bhsportsguy
The San Antonio River runs right down the heart of Los Angeles.
2006-08-02 17:45:59
182.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Go Andre!
I very much like how the Dodgers are causing bullpen burnout in Cincy. Bodes well for the third game.
2006-08-02 17:47:12
183.   Eric Enders
I think Adaptation is, academically, perhaps the most ingenious script ever written. But it doesn't really translate into an enjoyable film.
2006-08-02 17:47:29
184.   dzzrtRatt
181 Heh!

Wasn't that Ed "Superfan" Beiler, the guy who replaced Bud Furillo on KABC Sportstalk? God he was awful.

2006-08-02 17:47:40
185.   the OZ
The movie talk has reminded me to watch "Memento" again. I haven't watched that since I was a film student.

Whatever happened to Guy Pearce? He was in a couple great flicks (Memento and the older LA Confidential), then did HG Wells' Time Machine and seemingly disappeared thereafter.

2006-08-02 17:47:54
186.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I missed the explanation for Ethier = 3.5.
Little help?
2006-08-02 17:48:00
187.   Berkeley Doug
Our old friend Jeff Weaver has given up 5 thru 1 2/3. On a good note, the Phillies pitcher is 0-1.
2006-08-02 17:48:33
188.   Jon Weisman
180 - There were parts that were good, but the movie certainly falls apart in the third act (though I believe that may have been the point - in which case, point taken, but still hard to sit through). As a writer, Cage's frustration resonated with me, and I even took McKee's course so I could relate to that, but it's not like the movie itself was any great writer movie in my mind.
2006-08-02 17:48:38
189.   StolenMonkey86
JAWFB
2006-08-02 17:48:40
190.   Disabled List
161 I disliked "BJM" because the characters - every single one of them - were annoying and unsympathetic. I couldn't stand any of them.

I loved "Adaptation" and "ETOSM" though. Those movies were emotionally true and sweet, to be sure.

2006-08-02 17:48:52
191.   underdog
I'm a writer guy and like Adaptation too - as a wannabe screenwriter it's hard not to love the scriptwriting scenes, but I can't help but feel he took the more cowardly route there when his Orchid Thief scenes are so beautifully done. I still enjoy the heck out of most of that movie (except, as portrayed in the movie, there's no ending.)

BJM and Eternal Sun are both brilliant, though.

Human Nature... not so much.

2006-08-02 17:50:16
192.   Disabled List
Oops, that's "ESOTM"
2006-08-02 17:50:27
193.   overkill94
Man, no love for Adaptation, which is easily in my top 5 favorite movies of all time. The whole script is just so brilliant it makes me shake my head after every viewing.

Eternal Sunshine is a close 2nd for Kaufman movies and easily takes the cake in emotional resonance over Adaptation.

BJM I thought was a bit overrated, but obviously a very original idea. Might have been a little too wacky for my tastes.

Confessions of a Dangerous Mind I thought was only mediocre. In fact, I've already forgotten most of the movie and I only saw it about a year and a half ago.

Human Nature doesn't look all that great, anybody seen it and have any opinions?

When's this guy gonna come out with another movie anyway? He's on a huge roll in my book.

2006-08-02 17:50:33
194.   natepurcell
186

some people think he is nothing more then a 4th outfielder, other people think hes a starting caliber outfielder.

both sides brought it to the negotiating table and the happy medium was *3.5 outfielder.

*3.5 models may very depending on the factory they were produced in. For example, the Ethier 3.5 model out of the Oakland factory vastly differs from the Repko 3.5 model out of the LA factory.

2006-08-02 17:50:38
195.   Gen3Blue
Man , if there is any true rational for batting Loney eighth, I have to love this lineup.
2006-08-02 17:50:38
196.   Bluebleeder87
167

leaving las vegas rocks. (I gotta stop saying rocks)

2006-08-02 17:51:46
197.   trainwreck
Kaufman has untitled film with Spike Jonze coming out in 07.
2006-08-02 17:51:46
198.   StolenMonkey86
Loney with bases loaded
2006-08-02 17:51:52
199.   Eric Enders
Ok, bases loaded, 2 outs. Time for the Loney Loney Loney Bugs Bunny Movie.
2006-08-02 17:52:06
200.   Bluebleeder87
Russell Martin knows how to take a pitch.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-08-02 17:52:41
201.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
185 - Perhaps he went back to the land Down Under.
Interesting, in LA Confidential, that two of the three main characters are played by Aussies.
But it's James Cromwell's crooked captain delivering the best line: "Don't try to do the right thing, Jack. You haven't had the practice."
2006-08-02 17:52:46
202.   Big Game
185.

Guy Pearce was in a rather good Australian western called "The Proposition" which was written by Nick Cave (Musician: Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, The Birthday Party). I think its on DVD now.

2006-08-02 17:52:49
203.   the OZ
Best 'writer' movie: Sunset Boulevard?

According to IMDB, Glenn Close has signed on to do a remake due out in 2008.

2006-08-02 17:52:53
204.   s choir
195 Agreed. This is the best lineup I've seen all year, and that's without Kent and Nomar.
2006-08-02 17:53:16
205.   natepurcell
that first pitch cb for a strike really threw off the whole AB for Loney there.
2006-08-02 17:53:22
206.   bigcpa
188 Come on when he goes to the seminar and asks in the meek voice "what do you do when you have a script with no drama, no plot and nothing really happens?" I could watch that scene over and over.

The movie hits home with me because I work for the studio and we originally had planned an Orchid Thief movie. The setup for the movie is entirely true- Kaufman could not adapt the book and decided to write himself into the movie. That had to be one of the most audacious moves in screenwriting history. Then he loses the Oscar to the freakin Pianist which was nearly a silent film.

2006-08-02 17:53:28
207.   Jon Weisman
183 - Robert McKee, the writing coach aped in Adaptation, will tell you that Casablanca is the most ingenious script ever written.
2006-08-02 17:54:46
208.   trainwreck
They are remaking Sunset Boulevard?

I hate Hollywood.

2006-08-02 17:54:54
209.   Disabled List
And typing "BJM" reminds me of the band Brian Jonestown Massacre, which in turn reminds me of the movie "Dig!" Considering the music and movie talk in here today, it's kinda apropros.

It's a documentary about wannabe bands trying to make it big - one sort of succeeding, the other totally detonating. Great movie, great music (by BJM and the Dandy Warhols). I highly recommend.

2006-08-02 17:55:13
210.   overkill94
188 I took the third act as being his "adaptation" to taking more risks in his life by being more like his brother, even though it was something he always thought he'd resent. To be succint, I think the movie was perfect.
2006-08-02 17:56:17
211.   Telemachos
170 Jon, I think it's debatable that BJM is a better script, but I think ETERNAL SUNSHINE is a better film. Gondry just hit the pitch-perfect note with his direction, and while Jonz was brilliant, the last 15-20 minutes of BJM don't quite work as well (for me) as SUNSHINE does.

ADAPTATION is also a brilliant script, but really too clever for its own good -- the third act "twist" is positively inspired (from a conceptual perspective) but also turns the film you're watching into a very conventional "action thriller"... which is very unsatisfying from the perspective of someone just watching it.

2006-08-02 17:56:35
212.   Berkeley Doug
207 IMHO - Casablanca is the greatest movie of all time, hands down.
2006-08-02 17:56:35
213.   underdog
207 Charlie Kaufman (VO): "[voice-over] I'm pathetic, I'm a loser. I have failed, I am panicked. I've sold out, I am worthless, I... What the ___ am I doing here? (etc)"

McKee: "And God help you if you use voice over narration in your work."

2006-08-02 17:56:42
214.   overkill94
203 That is the worst idea ever. What's next, Colin Farrell in a remake of Casablanca?
2006-08-02 17:57:25
215.   ToyCannon
Thumbs up for me on all the movies mentioned including the "Station Agent". I lost a bet so my wife is getting to watch a Marx Brothers movie and I've been relegated to DT.

Dzzrat you are a great source of info. Loved the lyrics.

2006-08-02 17:59:06
216.   overkill94
215 I liked The Station Agent as well. That Italian (Puerto Rican?) friend of his is great.
2006-08-02 17:59:13
217.   ToyCannon
The strangest remake ever for me was PJ doing "Last Kiss". I liked that song when I was 6 but was dumbfounded to hear PJ cover it 40 years later.
2006-08-02 17:59:22
218.   Eric Enders
For my money the best writer movie is Bogey's "In a Lonely Place."
2006-08-02 17:59:28
219.   Jacob L
I thought the characters in Malkovich were incredibly sympathetic, if not necessarily appealing. They put themselves in very human predicaments, wanting what they couldn't have, and losing interest when they have it.

I wouldn't say I liked the characters, but their emotions were very easy to relate to.

2006-08-02 17:59:35
220.   underdog
I always think it's a good sign for the Dodgers when you can find us happily digressing about movies and music while they're playing, rather than angrily digressing or cursing management. May it only continue.
2006-08-02 18:00:09
221.   Berkeley Doug
214 I thought there was some talk a few years ago about a re-make of Casablance. For some reason, I'm thinking Sean Penn was mentioned as a possibility for Rick Blaine.
2006-08-02 18:00:18
222.   underdog
Another Best Writer's Movie (in my book): Barton Fink.

Isn't it funny how all the great writer movies are extremely dark?

2006-08-02 18:00:21
223.   blutomania
I always thought the final "act" of Adaptation was Charlie's brother taking over the screenplay...

Penny seems to be back in the swing of things.

bluto

2006-08-02 18:00:49
224.   Berkeley Doug
218 Great movie.
2006-08-02 18:01:46
225.   trainwreck
bigcpa, which studio do you work for?
2006-08-02 18:02:29
226.   Eric Enders
214 et al. I assume that is a remake of the Broadway musical version of Sunset Blvd that Ms Close starred in. So it's probably not as much of a desecration as some others.
2006-08-02 18:02:38
227.   bigcpa
211 You totally nailed it- you can picture Kaufman laughing hysterically writing the third act and making everyone sit through one cliche after another. It is genius but it would have been worked better lopping off 10 minutes.
2006-08-02 18:02:51
228.   jet
My guess is that Glenn Close is not doing a remake of the film 'Casablanca' that we know and revere, but the (alleged) musical version which she starred in on the stage some years ago. I had the misfortune of seeing it in LA, and can only now talk about it w/o smoke coming out of my ears.
2006-08-02 18:02:59
229.   overkill94
While I have found a lot of old movies disappointing (Citizen Kane, Chinatown, The French Connection) - probably due to not knowing the technical accepts or having historical perspective - Casablance managed to become one of my all-time favorite movies. From Here to Eternity and Shane are the only other two I can think of that have that distinction.
2006-08-02 18:02:59
230.   underdog
Old pal Willy Aybar scored the go ahead run for Atlanta after doubling.

But Baez is warming up in the bullpen...?

2006-08-02 18:03:29
231.   bigcpa
225 the Japanese one :)
2006-08-02 18:03:33
232.   Telemachos
Of course, as I take the time to write up a post, I find that others have already said the same thing in a better way (re: Adaptation, etc).

Onto TRUMAN SHOW! Enjoyable, and I think I've come to appreciate it more on the small screen, but it never completely jelled for me. Some brilliant stuff, but also moments that I found fairly conventional.... and I really wish it'd ended on Truman walking through the door. (I hate the delivery of Carrey's final line too.) Still, an above-average movie.

2006-08-02 18:04:30
233.   jet
226- Sorry for the redundancy. Eric Enders types faster than me.
2006-08-02 18:05:33
234.   trainwreck
231
What is your position? If you don't mind me asking.
2006-08-02 18:05:56
235.   Eric Enders
Wow. That was very weird.
2006-08-02 18:06:02
236.   Sam DC
Finally! Someone else who appreciates what a great movie The Truman Show was.

And I'll quadruple The Station Agent.

Utley's second AB was a rocket down the first base line that Pujols snared. His third will come before too long.

None of Cameron Diaz' work has blown me away, but I haven't seen it all.

(And yes, that was back atcha Marty.)

So the Nationals got the tying run to the plate in the nith but couldn't get all the way back. They actually have a pretty deep lineup right, with Kearns, Church, and Marlon Anderson -- all tough outs right now -- hitting 5-7. Only Schneider and the pitcher are real gimmees, and as recently as last year, Schneider was a modest threat too.

Of course, they have fumes for pitching.

2006-08-02 18:06:31
237.   StolenMonkey86
230 - I guess they'll have to find out sooner or later
2006-08-02 18:06:38
238.   Bluebleeder87
take that Freel (for stealing 5 bases off of Phillips)
2006-08-02 18:06:45
239.   Disabled List
The final third of "Adaptation" was an inside joke on how formulas ruin movies. In the process though, they had to ruin the movie in order to make a point about how movies get ruined. Except that the movie wasn't really ruined.

Now my brain hurts.

2006-08-02 18:07:03
240.   Steve
Doug Eddings got one right! It's a miracle!
2006-08-02 18:07:27
241.   StolenMonkey86
I thought the Truman Show was good, but I also blame it for the rise of reality television.
2006-08-02 18:08:28
242.   trainwreck
David Cronenberg was originally approached to direct the Truman Show. That would have made quite the difference.
2006-08-02 18:09:20
243.   Eric Enders
I don't think enough people paid attention to The Truman Show to blame the reality TV nonsense on it.
2006-08-02 18:10:16
244.   underdog
I think it's true about the 3rd act of Adaptation, and as a writer I smirked through it, but something inside me felt like it was all a little too smirky and a bit of a cop-out. But, again, the writer part of me enjoyed the heck out of all of it.
2006-08-02 18:10:17
245.   bigcpa
234 Business Development i.e. greenlight analysis etc.
2006-08-02 18:10:33
246.   Steve
What is the Reds' "closer" doing in the game?
2006-08-02 18:11:41
247.   ToyCannon
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre was always my favorite Bogart movie even though I loved Casablanca. If I had to name one actor who was in more movies that I've enjoyed it would have to be him.
2006-08-02 18:11:58
248.   Sam DC
Big -- do you happen to know a guy named Eric Gaynor who works there too?
2006-08-02 18:12:35
249.   Sam DC
Abreu up in NY bases loaded. He's 2-3 so far tonight.
2006-08-02 18:12:37
250.   Eric Enders
"The Treasure of the Sierra Madre was always my favorite Bogart movie."

I agree, except remove the word "Bogart."

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-08-02 18:13:17
251.   Icaros
Ryan Freel is finally getting his comeuppance for ruining the Dodger Thoughts Adam Dunn Scouting Expedition.

242

I wish that would have happened in the same way that I wish Stanley Kubrick would have directed "A.I."

2006-08-02 18:13:30
252.   bigcpa
244 SPOILER alert.... What the third act needed was closure on the brother character. It's quite obvious he's co-writing the third act- hence the shared writing credit on the movie. So his death is clearly fiction inside a non-fiction movie. So why not tack on a 30 second epilogue where we see the two brothers polish off the script. Everyone I know thinks the brother is a goner at the end.
2006-08-02 18:14:02
253.   Gen3Blue
Uh-oh. I can see that "well don't need and aren't going to get any more runs mindset. I bet Ethier is immune to it. Maybe Lugo-we'll see.
2006-08-02 18:14:02
254.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
240 - I have a sad Doug Eddings story, and it has nothing to do with "dropped" third strikes.
The receptionist in my former office knew Doug; he married a friend of hers. She said Doug lost his mind because of 9-11. Apparently, he was flying that morning (probably to his next assignment) when the attacks happened. His plane, like everyone else's, was grounded, and he ended up in Kansas or some such. Well, he's got a friend in the CIA, and that friend got him past the barricades into Ground Zero three days after the attack.
It was too much for Doug. He withdrew, and stopped speaking to his wife, stopped playing with their dog. Later, there was a divorce.
2006-08-02 18:14:43
255.   bigcpa
248 Not personally but he was in the NCAA pool that I run every year. What does he do?
2006-08-02 18:17:23
256.   Bluebleeder87
Dunn's long swing has been exposed by Penny.
2006-08-02 18:17:25
257.   trainwreck
I happen to like it when films leave permanent gaps and make the audience infer things. I believe in the avant garde mindset that the audience should be a participant in the film and have to fully engage in what is going on. American audiences obviously, are not taught to think this way.
2006-08-02 18:18:06
258.   StolenMonkey86
coaching visit? was 97 too many pitches?
2006-08-02 18:18:39
259.   LAT
Windmill tilting rant . . .

Forced to listen to the gameon radio. Moday is so bad. But more than that I hate these ads they try and work into the middle of an at bat as though they fit. "Not only is Brad Penny working hard but the Chefs at Pandan Express are working hard for you as well. Preparing savory. . . blah blah blah."

"Adam Dunn didn't see that one but you can see better after visiting Exel Laser Institute. . .blah blah blah."

Commercials belong between innings, injuries and pitching changes. Not between strikes and balls.

Rant over. (for now)

2006-08-02 18:18:46
260.   dzzrtRatt
This is a good list of writer movies. I think Sunset Blvd will always win that particular contest but all the others mentioned are great.

Here are a few more:

The Door in the Floor (children's book author)
The World According to Garp (also based on a John Irving book)
Wonder Boys (novelist turned creative writing teacher)
Sylvia (Plath & Hughes -- very depressing but watchable)
Barfly (about a Bukoski-like character)
Dreamchild (the real Alice recalls her relationship with Lewis Carroll)
Finding Neverland (about J.M. Barrie, author of Peter Pan)
Amadeus (well, about a composer)
Immortal Beloved (well, about a composer)

2006-08-02 18:19:29
261.   Sam DC
IP something -- not sure if he's legal or licensing deals or what.

One of my oldest family friends who I haven't spoken to in years. If you want to pass on that sammy of "throw the big wheel in the pool" days says hi, plz do.

10 pitch strikeout for Abreu.

2006-08-02 18:20:07
262.   Bob Timmermann
Utley will come up to bat against Tyler Johnson who is relieving Weaver who departed with the Phils up 7-2.
2006-08-02 18:20:50
263.   Bob Timmermann
Utley flies out to right.

But it's only the fourth.

2006-08-02 18:21:01
264.   Sam DC
Utley first pitch fly out. 0-3 but only the fourth.
2006-08-02 18:21:03
265.   blutomania
CPA

I'm over at the one in Burbank who's having a poor summer. Are you under Michael Lynton?

bluto

2006-08-02 18:21:38
266.   Marty
Treasure of the Sierra Madre is the best Bogart movie.

I love dialogue, so His Girl Friday is way up there for me.

2006-08-02 18:22:14
267.   scooplew
Favorite Film: Stalag 17
Least Favorite TV show: Hogan's Heroes
2006-08-02 18:22:53
268.   LAT
This Weaver thing ain't working out too good for St. Louie. 3 1/3 innings, 7 runs.
2006-08-02 18:23:09
269.   bigcpa
265 Poor Poor Poseidon. My boss reports to the guy who reports to Lynton. But I do send him a lot of email!
2006-08-02 18:24:26
270.   blutomania
Poseidon, LITW, Ant Bully.

It's a far cry from last summer.

Do you know anyone in Marketing?

2006-08-02 18:24:39
271.   Eric Enders
Drew 3/4 of the way to the Golden Sombrero.
2006-08-02 18:25:36
272.   StolenMonkey86
golden sombrero?
2006-08-02 18:26:58
273.   Eric Enders
272
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sombrero
2006-08-02 18:27:14
274.   Bob Timmermann
Four K's in a game is a Golden Sombrero.
2006-08-02 18:27:36
275.   the OZ
Doesn't Drew have a hit? I belive the sombrero represents a special type of 0'fer.
2006-08-02 18:27:52
276.   Gen3Blue
Ethier didn't know we weren't sposed to have any more offense. Eh --he's a rookie!
2006-08-02 18:30:34
277.   Bluebleeder87
I'm ashemed to say I've never heard of the term GOLDEN SOMBRERO.
2006-08-02 18:31:08
278.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Poseidon goes on my list of movies that I'll fast-forward to the special-effects extravaganza, watch then turn off.
2006-08-02 18:31:17
279.   bigcpa
270 I only deal with the suits in marketing. Introduce me to someone over there. I need an outlet for my brilliant marketing ploys.
2006-08-02 18:31:32
280.   StolenMonkey86
No Sombrero for you!
2006-08-02 18:31:50
281.   blutomania
Brad Goldberg sound familiar?
2006-08-02 18:33:15
282.   Bluebleeder87
that was a questionable pitch, I don't blame the reds hitter for that.
2006-08-02 18:34:24
283.   bigcpa
281 No. I do know "Goldberg would love to do it."
2006-08-02 18:34:45
284.   confucius
Wow, Eddings is a genius.
2006-08-02 18:35:40
285.   Bluebleeder87
why wasn't Dessens signed in the off seasos is mind bogeli to me.
2006-08-02 18:36:42
286.   Eric Enders
285 What perplexes me more is why, as (I believe) a Type A free agent, we didn't offer him arbitration.
2006-08-02 18:37:28
287.   LAT
Dave Ross hitting .308! What's next Danys Baez Cy Young winner?
2006-08-02 18:38:01
288.   Paul Scott
Type C, but still baffling. I think it might have something to do with GM incompetence.
2006-08-02 18:38:09
289.   StolenMonkey86
286 - Wasn't it something where we had an option for him but he turned it down, or something like that?
2006-08-02 18:38:59
290.   StolenMonkey86
David Ross would be leading the Dodgers in home runs right now
2006-08-02 18:39:42
291.   D4P
287
Dave Ross has more HRs than any Dodger player.
2006-08-02 18:40:14
292.   Eric Enders
&#%@ Freel.
2006-08-02 18:40:49
293.   bigcpa
Can someone explain how C.M. Wang can have a 3.60 ERA striking out 1 guy a week?
2006-08-02 18:41:16
294.   Bluebleeder87
Repko!
2006-08-02 18:43:29
295.   Bluebleeder87
strikes out
2006-08-02 18:44:22
296.   trainwreck
As I flipped the channels, I see Sean Hannity and Anne Coulter discussing Mel Gibson. This should be hilarious.
2006-08-02 18:46:13
297.   Eric Enders
293
I don't know, but what I do know is the Yankees must own some sort of all-time record for most pitchers in the starting rotation whose surname is a euphemism for male genitalia.
2006-08-02 18:47:01
298.   Eric Enders
The impossible has happened!
2006-08-02 18:47:15
299.   Bluebleeder87
5-3 Dodgers on a HR by Clayton.
2006-08-02 18:47:30
300.   StolenMonkey86
did he really just give up a homer to Royce Clayton?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-08-02 18:47:40
301.   bigcpa
297 Wait they got Kerry Wood?
2006-08-02 18:47:45
302.   trainwreck
Royce Clayton HR! All numbers in this ballpark should just be thrown out.
2006-08-02 18:47:48
303.   Uncle Miltie
The Clayton Principal. Bringing up the Grabowski Principal would be an insult to Jason.
2006-08-02 18:47:58
304.   Eric Enders
First HR for Clayton since 6/17/05.
2006-08-02 18:48:03
305.   Humma Kavula
That's gotta be a Grabowski Principle.
2006-08-02 18:48:21
306.   Sam DC
The Apocalypse!
2006-08-02 18:49:12
307.   Uncle Miltie
296- what channel? I must see this. I'm sure Coulter is complementing Gibson on his anti Semitic remarks
2006-08-02 18:49:20
308.   JoeyP
This umpire is horrid.
2006-08-02 18:49:49
309.   StolenMonkey86
"When a pitcher does something hopelessly bad in a situation he should easily handle (e.g., giving up a hit to an opposing pitcher in a National League game, plunking the batter with bases loaded, or walking a struggling hitter), the Grabowski Principle says that pitcher must immediately be replaced." 6-4-2
2006-08-02 18:49:56
310.   dzzrtRatt
285 Is mind bogeli anything like head cheese?
2006-08-02 18:51:24
311.   Daniel Zappala
What exactly are the roles in the Dodger bullpen these days?
2006-08-02 18:51:34
312.   Bluebleeder87
First HR for Clayton since 6/17/05.

I'm not joking when I say I'm shoked at that (he seems to have a good swing for more HRuns)

2006-08-02 18:51:56
313.   Humma Kavula
Here comes Dunn. I fear the worst.
2006-08-02 18:51:59
314.   DaveP
Why is Dessens still pitching?
2006-08-02 18:52:34
315.   Bluebleeder87
well if anything Coulter is nice to look at.
2006-08-02 18:53:17
316.   ddger
What are we saving Broxton and Saito for if we can't use them now?
2006-08-02 18:53:33
317.   StolenMonkey86
will Dunn go golden?
2006-08-02 18:54:45
318.   trainwreck
307
It lasted only a couple minutes haha. I was dissapointed.
2006-08-02 18:54:56
319.   Eric Enders
Adam dunn struck out, the redneck said.
2006-08-02 18:55:11
320.   ddger
Just get one more out Elmer.
2006-08-02 18:55:15
321.   Bluebleeder87
Golden 317
2006-08-02 18:55:15
322.   Humma Kavula
whew.
2006-08-02 18:55:26
323.   StolenMonkey86
Golden Sombrero, Adam Dunn!
2006-08-02 18:55:28
324.   Eric Enders
315 If you're a horse, maybe.
2006-08-02 18:55:54
325.   ddger
Finally, let's hope Saito can close this out.
2006-08-02 18:56:26
326.   JoeyP
Thats a golden sombrero for Dunn.
He K's a lot, but usually not on Ball 4's.
2006-08-02 18:56:35
327.   Sam DC
Utley left on deck at the end of 6.
2006-08-02 18:56:37
328.   scooplew
She won't watch baseball if the umpire has a liberal strike zone...
2006-08-02 18:56:46
329.   Uncle Miltie
What's the point of bringing Martinez in? He's a worse fielder than Furcal. This is an unnecessary double switch.
2006-08-02 18:57:02
330.   Steve
of course, of course
2006-08-02 18:57:34
331.   StolenMonkey86
Adam Dunn had a Platinum Sombrero on Aug 20, 2002 according to Wikipedia
2006-08-02 18:58:23
332.   trainwreck
We clearly want Martinez coming up third in the 9th inning.
2006-08-02 18:58:40
333.   Bluebleeder87
She won't watch baseball if the umpire has a liberal strike zone...

I know were she stands but she's pretty.(are they real is what I'm wondering)

2006-08-02 18:59:21
334.   Bob Timmermann
No 3-way tie for the last two playoff spots.

Arizona-Chicago rained out.

2006-08-02 19:00:18
335.   Bluebleeder87
WOW were was that pitch at by Saito.
2006-08-02 19:00:36
336.   Steve
I really wish you hadn't told me that story, GSfRB, because I really hate Doug Eddings, and that was really really a strike.
2006-08-02 19:00:47
337.   Eric Enders
Griffey is getting Michael Jordan treatment from Eddings here.
2006-08-02 19:01:48
338.   trainwreck
Random question...

Is anyone here a nutriotionist or knows a lot about anti-oxidants?

I have been reading a lot of stuff and I am wondering if I should take vitamins or any kind of supplement at all in addition to eating vegetables.

2006-08-02 19:02:08
339.   Bluebleeder87
that was close (Griffey hits it to the warning track with a man on 2nd)
2006-08-02 19:02:47
340.   trainwreck
*nutritionist
2006-08-02 19:03:11
341.   King of the Hobos
If I were listening to Steiner only, I would have thought Ethier made an impossible jumping catch just now, when he actually barely left the ground for a fairly routine catch.
2006-08-02 19:03:37
342.   scooplew
In case you were wondering, left-handed batters are hitting
.281 against Beimel, our lefty in the pen, and .217 against righty Saito (before Griffey's AB).
2006-08-02 19:03:37
343.   Linkmeister
Is GABP just a small park, or is Griffey that much stronger than he looks these days? That swing didn't look like it was gonna make it that deep to the opposite field.
2006-08-02 19:04:53
344.   Bluebleeder87
I have been reading a lot of stuff and I am wondering if I should take vitamins or any kind of supplement at all in addition to eating vegetables.

good question, I'm curious my self.

2006-08-02 19:05:54
345.   JoeyP
If you're traded for Joel Guzman, please do not bunt.
2006-08-02 19:06:49
346.   bhsportsguy
Matt Kemp has scored 2 runs from first on doubles by Young and LaRoche.

Kemp 1-2 with a walk and 2 runs scored
LaRoche 1-3 with a double and 2 RBI
Young 1-3 with a double and 2 RBI

2006-08-02 19:07:18
347.   StolenMonkey86
Joel the Destroyer for Julio the Bunter.

Good one, Ned.

2006-08-02 19:07:21
348.   Telemachos
338 I'm certainly not a nutritionist, but I'd say, if you planning on eating vegetables, buy organic and try to make sure you're eating a wide variety to make sure you're getting what you need.
2006-08-02 19:07:56
349.   Bob Timmermann
343

The park in Cincinnati isn't spacious and the ball carries well in the humid air.

2006-08-02 19:09:09
350.   Eric Enders
The numbers on the outfield fence from left to right are 328, 379, 404, 370, 325.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-08-02 19:11:14
351.   StolenMonkey86
Here's Sammy!
2006-08-02 19:11:19
352.   Sam DC
Possible Hall of Famer Jim Edmonds up with two out two on in STL, 8-3.
2006-08-02 19:12:40
353.   Bluebleeder87
348

what happens if you're only drnking vitamins?

2006-08-02 19:13:56
354.   Sam DC
Edmonds runs the count full then grounds out on ball four. Utley coming up.
2006-08-02 19:14:25
355.   Terry A
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.

(Mascara Man grounds out in St. Loo.)

2006-08-02 19:14:34
356.   JoeyP
The Dbax are stuck playing a DH'er on a getaway day tomorrow.
2006-08-02 19:15:40
357.   Sam DC
0-2
2006-08-02 19:16:05
358.   Sam DC
K (dropped and thrown out at first).
2006-08-02 19:16:08
359.   Bluebleeder87
what's ovaltine?
2006-08-02 19:16:26
360.   King of the Hobos
Utley strikes out on 3 pitches, but assuming someone reaches base, he'll have one more chance.
2006-08-02 19:16:41
361.   Eric Enders
It's what you have to drink to get a special decoder ring.
2006-08-02 19:16:48
362.   Bluebleeder87
Saito rocks
2006-08-02 19:16:48
363.   JoeyP
Is tonite a high for Dodger pitcher strikeouts in a game this year?

Reds have K'd 12 times.

2006-08-02 19:17:15
364.   Bob Timmermann
Ovaltine is a chocolate milk drink mix. It's powdered and it supposedly has a lot of vitamins.
2006-08-02 19:17:27
365.   Steve
Saito is flat nasty.
2006-08-02 19:17:29
366.   StolenMonkey86
359 - you're kidding.

Chocolate milk mix with a bunch of vitamins. For that matter, Carnation Instant Breakfast.

2006-08-02 19:17:34
367.   Bluebleeder87
5 in arrow, an Saito just pumped me up alot more.
2006-08-02 19:17:35
368.   Gen3Blue
Lugo replaces Furcal--defensive switch. Is gameday sane?
I can tell you one thing--Saito can pitch, and he is our most valuable player.
2006-08-02 19:17:42
369.   JoeyP
13K's..wow
2006-08-02 19:17:45
370.   D4P
359
Someone didn't get their Little Orphan Annie Secret Decoder Pin yet...
2006-08-02 19:17:56
371.   Humma Kavula
Man, this team is streaky.
2006-08-02 19:18:50
372.   StolenMonkey86
Takashi Saito is the man.
2006-08-02 19:20:08
373.   dzzrtRatt
333 Careful flirting with Ann Coulter. She might think you're gay.

Anti-oxidants, I got your anti-oxidants right here. Blueberries. Eat a cup of them every day, you're probably covered.

2006-08-02 19:21:52
374.   Bob Timmermann
370

My mom is still upset that she didn't get the decoder ring.

And she's dead.

2006-08-02 19:22:43
375.   Uncle Miltie
I like how Grits brought in his best reliever to face Griffey rather than going to the lefty Beimel. We know that Tracy would have used Beimel. The worst thing I can say about Grits is that his lineups aren't always the best (Lofton playing and batting 2nd), but he's done a good job of managing the pitching staff. He isn't afraid to take out a starting pitcher before 5 innings if they are clearly struggling. He knows that if he needs a strikeout he can bring in Broxton and if he needs a groundball he has Beimel. What I really like is that he's not afraid to bring in Beimel to pitch to right handed hitters. Beimel is not a LOOGY.
2006-08-02 19:22:47
376.   D4P
With all the flack people take for being anti-Semitic, no one seems to take any for being anti-Oxidant. And with all the emphasis on "tolerance," nobody seems to preach tolerance for Lactose.
2006-08-02 19:22:58
377.   Sam DC
Grape juice good too. Larry King told me.

If you go to her web page, there's some great pix of Ann Coulter shooting a big gun.

2006-08-02 19:23:41
378.   Bluebleeder87
Careful flirting with Ann Coulter. She might think you're gay.

why is that?

2006-08-02 19:24:01
379.   StolenMonkey86
meanwhile in Florida, Billy Wagner hits pinch hitter Brian Moehler with a pitch, putting runners at first and second with nobody out and Hanley Ramirez up. Mets up 6-5 in Florida.
2006-08-02 19:24:33
380.   Steve
375 -- Grittle is flat nasty.
2006-08-02 19:24:59
381.   Terry A
One little Ovaltine reference, and suddenly we're talking about movies I've actually seen.
2006-08-02 19:25:35
382.   StolenMonkey86
Cody Ross is 1-4 with a double out of the 7 spot tonight.
2006-08-02 19:25:54
383.   JoeyP
And Joe Girardi has Hanley Ramirez bunt....

I love the Marlins, but stupidity like that shouldnt be rewarded.

2006-08-02 19:27:25
384.   JoeyP
And Ramirez strikes out on 3 foul bunts.
When you are losing in the 9th inning, dont give up an out, especially with one of your team's best hitters.

Girardi-- that was awful. Surely he didnt learn bunting from Joe Torre. Maybe thats a Cubs thing.

2006-08-02 19:28:06
385.   Sam DC
368 That's two things.
383 It wasn't.
2006-08-02 19:29:19
386.   Bob Timmermann
The Red Sox were down 5-4 with two outs and none on in the 9th in Cleveland.

Then

HBP to Mirabelli on a 3-2 pitch.
HBP to Gonazalez on the next pitch.
Walk to Youkilis
Game winning hit by Loretta.

2006-08-02 19:29:44
387.   Steve
...and never is
2006-08-02 19:29:52
388.   Bluebleeder87
Ann Coulter's hands look like aliens no?

ps I still think she's pretty.

2006-08-02 19:31:20
389.   Sam DC
Mark Loretta pulls a junior Papi.
2006-08-02 19:31:39
390.   bhsportsguy
386 Did not want to face Big Papi.
2006-08-02 19:31:57
391.   Terry A
And I think we all know how painful that can be.
2006-08-02 19:32:50
392.   StolenMonkey86
Fausto didn't quite have it
2006-08-02 19:33:10
393.   JoeyP
Marlins lose!
All is right with the Baseball World again.
2006-08-02 19:34:18
394.   Linkmeister
Has anyone seen LAT or has he been banished to the doghouse for 15 days (like a personal DL)?
2006-08-02 19:34:59
395.   Sam DC
Wagner Ks Uggla and Cabrera to get out of it.

That inning also involved the rare, pinch runner subbed in for a pinch runner. Not sure of the backstory there.

2006-08-02 19:35:47
396.   StolenMonkey86
What, Tampa Bay has another Lugo!

Don't tell Ned!

2006-08-02 19:36:28
397.   Terry A
Hey, that used to be our Lugo!
2006-08-02 19:37:32
398.   Sam DC
Now Pujols up, down by one, runner on first.
2006-08-02 19:37:47
399.   Steve
I remember very vaguely that Grittle did something extremely stupid in April, like bringing in Hamulack in some situation that was egregious. That was a bad day. He also started to get a little desperate during the losing streak, would send the runner every pitch, and make it worse because hitters would have to swing at pitches in the dirt. It was probably panic. I do not remember any bad bunts at all. There probably have been some, but I don't remember them.
2006-08-02 19:38:03
400.   Bob Timmermann
The Phillies are doing a very good job of giving Chase Utley more at bats. Then again, they could just go ahead.

Both Royce Clayton AND Aaron Miles have homered tonight.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-08-02 19:38:27
401.   Steve
"That's Our Lugo" is going to be Sony's 2007 summer smash!
2006-08-02 19:39:19
402.   Bob Timmermann
Rain delay in KC. They were playing in a very stiff wind for a while before the deluge started.
2006-08-02 19:39:43
403.   Sam DC
Pujols GIDP (4-3).
2006-08-02 19:40:40
404.   Bob Timmermann
Kansas City's ground crew is really good at getting the tarp on the field. That was something to watch. They must have covered the whole infield in less than 45 seconds.
2006-08-02 19:44:08
405.   Sam DC
401 Audiences can't wait for the big 2009 crossover/sequel: Balki v. Lugo.
2006-08-02 19:48:16
406.   Uncle Miltie
14 out of the Dodgers 40 sacrifice bunts have been done by non pitchers. That should be expected when you have scrappy player like Furcal and Lofton who sometimes bunt on their own. The Dodgers are 11th out 16th in the NL in sacrifice bunts.
2006-08-02 19:49:20
407.   StolenMonkey86
Dodgers.com reports Sele is out of the rotation.

I would have gone with Hendrickson, but whatever.

2006-08-02 19:50:03
408.   Terry A
Sam, did you enjoy Eric Karros talking about the technique for getting a bunt down? Riveting PBP in the Cards/Phils telecast.
2006-08-02 19:53:50
409.   Sam DC
408 I'm afraid I'm on small house/sleeping kid/no sound. Some at bat by Philly PH Chris Coste.
2006-08-02 19:54:23
410.   StolenMonkey86
Look at the splits for Hendy and Sele

Any chance Hendrickson starts away games for the 5th starter while Sele gets the home games?

2006-08-02 19:55:10
411.   Chiron Brown
374 I still have the P.F. Flyer's Decoder/Sundial/Whistle thing I got as a kid. It's a complicated code but here's a hint, 1=A.
2006-08-02 19:55:47
412.   Uncle Miltie
http://tinyurl.com/npvuw
Anyone see this:
Duke Heads Home
Outfielder considers baseball future after another suspension
"To be honest, I don't even know about baseball anymore. Everything is just wearing on me and this year has just been so frustrating. I'm trying to keep my nose clean and keep to myself, but things just keep getting turned around. I'm tired of it."

"I packed up all my stuff and I'm headed home. To be honest, I don't even know about baseball anymore. Everything is just wearing on me and this year has just been so frustrating. I'm trying to keep my nose clean and keep to myself, but things just keep getting turned around. I'm tired of it."

Dukes is considering another profession? I don't think he's capable of doing anything besides playing baseball. Maybe a life in crime...

2006-08-02 20:00:30
413.   Bob Timmermann
I updated the Griddle.
2006-08-02 20:15:47
414.   King of the Hobos
Anyone think Saito would be less effective as a starter? He was a starter, swingman, and closer in Japan, so I don't think it would be too crazy of an idea, although he might be too old to handle that many innings, and never really pitched many innings in Japan anyways (196 was the most). Just an idea for next year.

Also, in other potential starter news, Houlton alterred his delievery a a few weeks ago, and has been a little better:
Before: 106 IP, 6.20 ERA, 10.19 H/9, 1.78 HR/9, 3.91 BB/9, 7.30 K/9
After: 23.2 IP, 4.56 ERA, 7.61 H/9, .38 HR/9, 3.42 BB/9, 7.23 K/9
It may be nothing more than luck (.299 BABIP before compared to .268 after), and it's an incredibly small sample size, but he does seem somewhat better since the change (don't ask me what the change was however, as scout.com wants me to pay to find out, but it assures me he made one).

2006-08-02 20:16:09
415.   the OZ
Woody Williams is pitching good, but not great, against the Astros through 4 innings.
2006-08-02 20:16:28
416.   Greg Brock
412 Like I said in the thread yesterday, my buddy in the D-Rays organization told me Dukes is a flat out thug, and a major blowup waiting to happen (not counting the umpire/headbutt that already occured).

Major Blowup...Officially happened.

2006-08-02 20:22:40
417.   3upn3down
Does anyone know where I can get MLB standing as of a certain date in years past?

I'm wondering what the Astros' record was on Aug 1st of '04 and '05. I feel like they have had 2 seasons in which they came from way down to get into the post season. I know they did in '04 shortly after they traded for Beltran.

Thanks in advance.

2006-08-02 20:25:35
418.   thinkingblue
414.

Yes, I think he'd be a bit hittable the 2nd-3rd time through an order. He relys on deception, so I think batters would figure him out later in a game if he started.

Keep him a reliver, he's one of the best in the game right now.

2006-08-02 20:27:55
419.   D4P
Dodgers.com reports Sele is out of the rotation.

We have replaced a 36-year old with a 40-year old.

2006-08-02 20:29:00
420.   thinkingblue
414 also,

well, good sign the home runs are down, but the walks still seem high.

2006-08-02 20:35:35
421.   twerp
414

1) IMO Saito at 36 not a good candidate to return to starting. IIRC from something I read, he wasn't outstanding as a starter anyway.

Also IMO his effectivness is helped bc a lot of batters haven't seen much of him. As a starter that advantage would disappear more quickly.

2) Story in Vegas paper RE Houlton improvement says, in part, and for free==

" Houlton now brings his hands to the side of his face when going through the wind-up, rather than over his head.

"It's allowing him to get the ball down a lot more, which has always been his problem," 51s manager Jerry Royster said. "Especially his breaking ball, he's able to get that down and get a bunch of outs with that as opposed to Ball 1, Ball 2."

Complete story here:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jul-24-Mon-2006/sports/8659499.html

2006-08-02 20:44:50
422.   Uncle Miltie
416- Dukes was a thug before he was drafted. He went to 4 different high schools, he got in a fight with teacher, choked his sister, he's been arrested 5 times, and got into numerous fights with teammates and coaches.

It's a sad story. Dukes' dad is in jail for killing a man. I've always rooted from him, but I don't think he'll ever be able to overcome all of his problems. The one good thing I can say about him is that he plays hard. You'll never see him pull a Sheffield and let flyballs drop in front of him on purpose.

2006-08-02 20:45:06
423.   King of the Hobos
420 The walks are high, but it seems like Vegas is destroying his control for whatever reason. For the year, he has a 4.44 BB/9 at home, and 2.96 BB/9 on the road (same problem with Ks, 6.24 K/9 at home, and 8.73 K/9 on the road). His BABIP and HR/9 are virtually the same home or road. Since changing his delivery, he has allowed only one walk in 14.1 IP on the road (and struck out 15).
2006-08-02 20:47:23
424.   Paul Scott
419 Yeah. I hate to agree with Kevin Kennedy, but if a starter was going to be bumped out of the rotation for Maddux it should have been Hendrickson. Kennedy's line about it was pretty good - something like "you want a lefty in the rotation if you can, but it should be a good one."

Sele is, however (like Maddux and Hendrickson), nothing special. They are all pretty much interchangeable, but I'd rather see Maddux and Sele, I guess.

2006-08-02 20:50:19
425.   Uncle Miltie
I'd love to see Elijah Dukes and Jeff Kent in the same clubhouse. I think Kent would think twice before challenging him to a fight.
2006-08-02 20:51:21
426.   King of the Hobos
421 Thanks for story. It's good to see some positive results, and I hope he gets a chance to try it in the majors this September. I still have some hope that he can become an adequate swingman, and he really needs to prove himself soon if he wants to keep his roster spot this winter.
2006-08-02 20:51:58
427.   LA Native
I would have taken out Hendrickson, although I feel Sele is fading from his hot start and would have been shaky in Aug. and Sept., but I still like him a lot better than Hendrickson. Also, Sele used to be quite a solid #2 for many years (although it was quite a while ago). If we are using the Maddux principle that experience and former status count for something then at least Sele has that over Hendrickson, who has never been good.
2006-08-02 20:53:39
428.   Paul Scott
otoh, with Hendrickson starting the chances of seeing something funny are increased dramatically.
2006-08-02 20:53:42
429.   Greg Brock
425 You may not like Kent (I think we've established that), but there is a big difference between a thoroughly unlikeable person and a criminal. Kent may be a pain, but he isn't a danger to society.

Now watch Kent get arrested for assault.

2006-08-02 20:53:59
430.   D4P
424
Hendrickson seems to have gotten very lucky thus far. With a 1.69 WHIP and 4.37 K/9, his 4.89 ERA seems lower than it probably should be. Guess you could say the same thing about Billingsley...(1.75/5.01/3.93)
2006-08-02 20:54:29
431.   Paul Scott
415 back-to-back homers may have to alter your assessment.
2006-08-02 20:55:07
432.   Gagne55
Sele seems to pitch well on extended rest. The home-road platoon sounded good. Less often starts = higher quality starts for Sele.
2006-08-02 20:57:24
433.   D4P
Sele's main advantage over BJ appears to be with respect to control

Sele
24 BBs in 82 innings, 1.38 WHIP

BJ
15 BBs in 35 innings, 1.69 WHIP

2006-08-02 20:58:07
434.   Gagne55
423 Interesting. The reasonable thought is that BB rate and K rate are the only pitching stats independent of park. But he seems to be affected. Fascinating.
2006-08-02 20:58:22
435.   Uncle Miltie
429- I was being sarcastic. Kent is a jerk, but he definitely isn't on Dukes' level. I wouldn't touch him even if the D-rays waived him.
2006-08-02 20:58:59
436.   Gagne55
The only thing Hendrickson does well is be tall. And that ain't gonna win many games.
2006-08-02 21:07:51
437.   King of the Hobos
434 Houlton relies heavily on off speed stuff, such as his curveball, and I'm guessing the desert air prevents proper breaking and movement. Does anyone more familiar with the physics of pitching in Vegas have a better assessment?
2006-08-02 21:10:06
438.   Greg Brock
437 I've always been under the impression that thinner/less humid air has an adverse impact on breaking pitches. Less resistance, therefore, less movement.
2006-08-02 21:14:02
439.   King of the Hobos
Kemp went 2-4 with 2 BBs and 2 SBs. Delwyn went 1-5 with a double and a BB, and Laroche went 1-4 with a double and 2 BBs. It's nice to see Kemp concentrating on his patience and pitch selection, and he's doing a great job of quelling my fears that he'd be the next Corey Patterson.
2006-08-02 21:18:47
440.   DaveP
437 - Doesn't answer your question specifically, but here are some interesting effects due to humidity, heat and pitch speed:

http://tinyurl.com/s6mmv
.....he stored one baseball in dry air and another baseball in 100 percent humid air. A month later, he removed the baseballs and performed a test. The same force that sent the dry ball 400 feet in the air sent the humid ball just 370 feet.

A ball that would go 400 feet in "normal" conditions goes:

* 6 feet farther if the altitude is 1,000 feet higher;
* 4 feet farther if the air is 10 degrees warmer;
* 4 feet farther if the barometer drops 1 inch of mercury;
*3 1/2 feet farther if the pitcher is 5 mph faster.

2006-08-02 21:19:14
441.   Eric Enders
417 Retrosheet.com, click on "Boxscores+++," then the year, then the calendar date you want.
2006-08-02 21:23:51
442.   natepurcell
Interesting. The reasonable thought is that BB rate and K rate are the only pitching stats independent of park. But he seems to be affected. Fascinating.

I find that false. If a pitcher is pitching in a park that favors pitchers, he will probably challenge the hitter more, knowing that the park he is pitching in will help him. Thus, more Ks and less BBs.

I think park effects do have an impact on bb and k rates.

2006-08-02 21:26:35
443.   Suffering Bruin
440 By that last measurement, Hendrickson should be safe on cold days at sea level with every Dodger fan risking hyperventilation by blowing toward home plate... hard.
2006-08-02 21:27:46
444.   natepurcell
Guzman with 1-4 with a 2b and 2ks in his Durham Bulls debut.
2006-08-02 21:29:05
445.   Daniel Zappala
-- Regarding Jon's article on relievers and not knowing which will produce in a given year, outside of a select few ---

It seems the Dodgers have taken this to heart this year. They have jettisoned Baez, Carter, Kuo, Hamulack, and Osorio. They brought in Dessens, Carrara, Beimel (another former Ray!) and Saito, then converted Tomko. Broxton has also stayed since he has been good.

It seems as if they have tried to figure out who is going to pitch well out of the pen this year, then mixed and matched until they were satisfied. The current combination is far from what was expected at the start of the year.

All of this may have been by necessity, but I wonder how much this will become the rule in bullpen management for most teams.

2006-08-02 21:29:58
446.   King of the Hobos
Kerry Wood intends to become a releiver next season. He could be a low risk pickup if signed to a cheap, incentive laden deal, but as a reliever, he's not worth nearly as much. This seems to be a good market for injury comeback pitchers, as both Randy Wolf and Wade Miller will be available as well. I'd like Colletti to try for Nomar v.2: Pitcher Edition with one of these guys, as I doubt any of them will cost too much.
2006-08-02 21:33:36
447.   natepurcell
did Loney almost hit a homerun?
2006-08-02 21:36:43
448.   King of the Hobos
Minor League Splits shows Vegas at a K park factor of 1.04 and BB park factor of 1.06. Neither are really indicative of anything out of the ordinary, so Vegas may just destroy Houlton's control because of some tendency special to him.
2006-08-02 21:38:52
449.   King of the Hobos
447 It was almost a double, but not really close to a homer. Freel made a nice catch, but he was still a good distance from the wall.
2006-08-02 21:42:14
450.   natepurcell
Lets trade Kent to the Mets this offseason for Ollie Perez and John Maine.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-08-02 21:42:35
451.   Greg Brock
Loney looks much better this time around. Always savvy around the bag, but he seems much more comfortable at the plate, and less intimidated by the big league atmosphere. That's my impression, at least.
2006-08-02 21:42:44
452.   natepurcell
449

so it was hit pretty hard?

2006-08-02 21:42:48
453.   twerp
427 Maddux and Sele both have pinpoint control when on top of their games and walk very few--especially Maddux. They also have similar style, relying on guile (hey, that even rhymes...)

Neither tops 85 on the gun. Accordingly, lots of baseball folks would say neither could make it in the majors. 400+ wins between the two beg to differ...

Both also have what IMO and in large part determines degree of success for athletes in all sports--a strong mental game.

Sele tends to struggle in 2nd halves (or before) after starting strong. He seems to be following that same pattern in '06.

But IMO his starting stats at Dodger Stadium (6-1, 2.54 ERA) say he should get some more DS starts as long as he gets results.

2006-08-02 21:44:49
454.   natepurcell
John Meloan had another good outing today:

5IP 4H 0ER 1bb 6k era 2.5

JoeyP might have himself his new favorite dodger prospect (and someone who i think pretty highly of as well).

2006-08-02 21:51:50
455.   StolenMonkey86
What's very strange is that Hendrickson doesn't do well in Dodger Stadium while Sele does. If you had a combination of Hendrickson starting at home and Sele starting on the road, you would have this pitcher:

Hendy Home and Sele Away
Home: 0-2, 6.00 ERA, 1.78 WHIP, 4.5 K/9, 1.00 K/BB
Away: 1-3, 6.12 ERA, 1.83 WHIP, 3.3 K/9, 0.86 K/BB
Total: 1-5, 6.08 ERA, 1.81 WHIP, 3.76 K/9, .91 K/BB

Reverse that trend, and you get this pitcher:
Sele Home and Hendy Away
Home: 6-1, 2.54 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 5.8 K/9, 3.20 K/BB
Away: 0-2, 3.71 ERA, 1.59 WHIP, 4.2 K/9, 1.33 K/BB
Total: 6-3, 2.85 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 5.4 K/9, 2.50 K/BB

2006-08-02 21:56:10
456.   StolenMonkey86
Comparison
Derek Lowe: 8-7, 4.29 ERA 1.37 WHIP, 5.20 K/9, 1.95 K/BB
Brad Penny: 11-5, 3.50 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 6.73 K/9, 2.80 K/BB
2006-08-02 21:56:31
457.   trainwreck
455
That just further shows that Hendrickson should be in the pen and not Sele.
2006-08-02 21:57:56
458.   StolenMonkey86
I'd like to see Grady use that home/road combination for the two of them. The good one, that is.
2006-08-02 21:58:13
459.   King of the Hobos
452 Yes, it was a double with a slower RF, and Freel had to catch it at full extension. As I recall, it would probably be described more as a hard hit linedrive rather than a towering fly, which seems to be Loney's ability. At Vegas, he hit 73 line drives (24% of batted balls) and only 81 fly balls (27%). As a comparison, Guzman was at 16% and 30% respectively (I did not include pop ups).
2006-08-02 21:58:43
460.   gibsonhobbs88
446 - If they fail to land Schmidt or Zito in the offseason, or just get one of those, then I would consider Randy Wolf, a crafty lefty that pitched for I think El Camino high in West Hills. He was a pretty effective pitcher from what I remember before his injury. Hopefully he can revive his career. Wade Miller has had now over 2 seasons wiped out with shoulder and arm problems and maybe too big of a risk.
432-That would be an interesting experiment to see if the home/road platoon would work with Sele/Hendrickson.
2006-08-02 21:59:35
461.   Gagne55
440 But those changes you showed only are in effect if contact is made. I order for a park to change K's or BB's it would have to affect the velocity or movement of the pitch itself or somehow have a distraction for the hitter. I guess the most plausible explaination, is that Holten can't get as good a grip on a drier ball.
2006-08-02 22:00:51
462.   King of the Hobos
455 We clearly should go with a rotation platoon. Seleckson would be our 2nd best pitcher with those stats.
2006-08-02 22:02:44
463.   King of the Hobos
Sorry for stealing 432's idea, I should have paid more attention to the Sele/Hendrickson conversation.
2006-08-02 22:04:19
464.   natepurcell
461

ballparks can have a mental effect as well. Those are just more difficult to quantify because they are different for every player. A park does not have to effect velocity or movement to effect ks and bbs. it just has to effect the pitcher mentally. If a pitcher feels more confident in one specific park, he is more likely to not nibble the corners and go after the hitter more.

I dont have any specific data to back that up right now but it just seems like common sense to me.

2006-08-02 22:05:14
465.   Gagne55
With regard to their splits, I would like to nominate two new nicknames:
Hendrickson- The Road Warrior
Sele- Homecoming King
Anybody second the use of these nicknames?
2006-08-02 22:05:42
466.   gibsonhobbs88
450 - Boy, you really dislike Kent. I just wish for the Dodger sakes, Kent would have had this lost season last year when last year was a waste of a season anyway. Then maybe he doesn't get that extension. On the other hand, if he just switched and would have put up the stats this year that he did last year, we would be sitting pretty right now. Wouda, Shouda, Couda, the three "ifs" that keep us Dodger fans restless and sleepless.
2006-08-02 22:06:09
467.   Eric Enders
Realistically, Hendrickson is not leaving the rotation because that would mean Ned essentially admitting he made a really stupid trade only a couple weeks after making it.
2006-08-02 22:09:01
468.   Gagne55
463 I'm flattered that you credit me with the idea, but I got it from stolen monkey in 410. However, the nicknames are my original idea.
2006-08-02 22:09:22
469.   gibsonhobbs88
465 - Aye to Sele's nickname, jury still out on Hendy, he hasn't won a game yet in the Blue uniform. After his start in Florida this weekend, maybe. Jury still out on him in my mind.
2006-08-02 22:10:10
470.   natepurcell
467

Hendrickson is the white elephant in the room, he doesn't have to publically admit anything when everyone already knows he made a mistake.

Colletti just needs to turn more Devil Ray trash into more Wilson Betemits.

2006-08-02 22:12:22
471.   Gagne55
467 Yup, the trade that everyone (with the exception of Buster Olney) thought was completely idiotic and a push at best, but Colletti made anyway. BTW, the people at BTF miss you insights.
2006-08-02 22:12:30
472.   StolenMonkey86
I think the case can be made that the Dodger Stadium mound is advantageous to Sele but not Hendrickson.
2006-08-02 22:12:48
473.   D4P
Ned may acknowledge (either privately or publicly) that the CMC and BJ trades were mistakes, but I doubt he understands why they were mistakes.
2006-08-02 22:14:28
474.   gibsonhobbs88
453 - Looking forward to seeing the "Professor" pitch tomorrow. According to the rotation, he would pitch his first game at the Ravine in the home uniform on Tuesday against the Rockies. If nothing else, we can enloy the last two months of watching a HOF practice his craft at Dodger Stadium. Throw strikes, keep the ball down and let the fielders do the work.
We could be just 3 games out as the Padres were getting blown out at last update.
2006-08-02 22:14:57
475.   natepurcell
473

Sadly, thats probably true.

2006-08-02 22:17:50
476.   Gagne55
473 It's not hard to look at their careers and say "this guy sucks". Looking at Colletti's aquisitions of Hendrickson and Lugo, he seems to focus on what they've done this year only. Yet, Maddux is counter to that.
2006-08-02 22:18:54
477.   King of the Hobos
As a follow up to my post way up at #9:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/08/01/dugout0807/

The subsequent trading of all three of Baldelli's subjects has led some in Tampa Bay's clubhouse to joke that his pieces have a dark side.

We really need to get someone to bash Rocco's knee a la Tonya Harding to send him to the DL, and force him to carve Kazmir, Upton, and Young into styrofoam so the dark side actually works in our favor.

2006-08-02 22:20:39
478.   trainwreck
477
And Carl Crawford.
2006-08-02 22:21:07
479.   trainwreck
Hell, might as well add Edwin Jackson and Joel Guzman.
2006-08-02 22:22:28
480.   Steve
473 -- I agree with that completely.
2006-08-02 22:24:33
481.   CanuckDodger
As Nate suggests, Jonathan Meloan is a Dodger college draftee that JoeyP legitimately SHOULD be raving about (unlike Ruggiano or Pedroza, and while there was nothing WRONG with Orenduff, JoeyP overrated him). So far in Vero Beach Orenduff has the following line: 18.0 IP, 15 H's, 4 BB's, 27 K's, 2.50 ERA. And from the scouting side, he's got real stuff: a fastball that has been sitting at 92-94 MPH and has reached 98 recently. Another thing I like about him is that he was one of those rare college juniors drafted before his 21st birthday, so 2006 is his age 21 season. The cherry on top is that Logan White only used a 5th round pick on him, so he is turning out to be excellent value for a guy drafted with a non-premium pick. I think Meloan is starting to look like a top 10 prospect in our farm system, which has been thinned with the graduations to the majors and trades.
2006-08-02 22:25:18
482.   CanuckDodger
As Nate suggests, Jonathan Meloan is a Dodger college draftee that JoeyP legitimately SHOULD be raving about (unlike Ruggiano or Pedroza, and while there was nothing WRONG with Orenduff, JoeyP overrated him). So far in Vero Beach Orenduff has the following line: 18.0 IP, 15 H's, 4 BB's, 27 K's, 2.50 ERA. And from the scouting side, he's got real stuff: a fastball that has been sitting at 92-94 MPH and has reached 98 recently. Another thing I like about him is that he was one of those rare college juniors drafted before his 21st birthday, so 2006 is his age 21 season. The cherry on top is that Logan White only used a 5th round pick on him, so he is turning out to be excellent value for a guy drafted with a non-premium pick. I think Meloan is starting to look like a top 10 prospect in our farm system, which has been thinned with the graduations to the majors and trades.
2006-08-02 22:28:54
483.   CanuckDodger
481 & 482 -- That should be "...Meloan has the following line:"
2006-08-02 22:30:08
484.   natepurcell
Hey canuck, anything about a third pitch from Meloan? In college, he got by with his plus knuckle curve and fastball but he didnt really throw that many change ups or anything.
2006-08-02 22:31:50
485.   overkill94
447 When it came off the bat I thought it was gone but I think he hit it a little off the end of the bat. Either way, it would have hit off the base of the wall if Freel weren't so fast.
2006-08-02 22:37:10
486.   dzzrtRatt
388 Hey Bluebleeder, sorry to leave you high and dry. My saying Ann Coulter might think you're gay if you flirted with her was a reference to her statement of about two weeks ago that Bill Clinton might be a latent homosexual, and her proof is his womanizing. What's especially funny about this is she acts as if this is self-evident and something everyone knows.

So in Ann Coulter world, a guy who likes the women = gay.

2006-08-02 22:40:01
487.   D4P
In Ann Coulter world, there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
2006-08-02 22:41:27
488.   Greg Brock
486 Not to defend Ann Coulter (because I find her repulsive), but her suggestion that overly promiscuous men have homosexual tendencies is actually rooted in 1970's liberal feminism.

I know this has nothing to do with baseball, and most of you don't care, I just want people to be well informed. Her idea isn't some right-wing stupidity, it's actually based in Liberal feminism.

Just thought you'd like to know. GO DODGERS!

2006-08-02 22:42:59
489.   overkill94
I find it more disturbing that Bluebleeder thinks she's attractive.
2006-08-02 22:45:20
490.   trainwreck
488
Interesting.
2006-08-02 22:51:44
491.   CanuckDodger
484 -- Meloan throws a fastball, knuckle curve, cutter and change-up. He probably relies on the first two, much like Billingsley relies on his fastball and curve even though he has a larger repetoire. Meloan's fastball seems to have picked up velocity since he was drafted. In college he sat at 90-91 MPH and only "touched" 93-94.
2006-08-02 22:52:01
492.   Greg Brock
490 It's basic Feminist dogma.

Also (In Ron Burgandy voice): It's Science

2006-08-02 22:57:06
493.   trainwreck
So does that mean women that are promiscious are really lesbians?
2006-08-02 22:58:55
494.   JoeyP
I wonder if Billy Beane wants Mark Teahan back?

I'll stick to this:
The 2002 "moneyball" draft class of the A's was the best draft any team has had in the 2000's. Teahan, Blanton, Swisher...Beane may have traded the best one!

2006-08-02 22:59:20
495.   dzzrtRatt
488 Perfect. Liberal feminism and right-wing stupidity have apparently mated, and issued forth Ann Coulter.
2006-08-02 23:00:48
496.   JoeyP
The Marlins 2002 draft of Josh Johnson and Scott Olsen looks pretty good as well.
2006-08-02 23:04:36
497.   natepurcell
So I just watched the Eric Gagne special and I miss him :(
2006-08-02 23:04:37
498.   Greg Brock
493 No. Since you asked the question, feminist dogma dictates that female promiscuity reflects a domination at the hands of men at an early age, and that women who "put out" are asserting their sexual power over men later in life, overcompensating for a domineering and restrictive family life.

Sexual abuse is also a factor. Women who are "loose" are often victims of sexual abuse, and have learned that the easiest way to control men is through access to sexual contact. Of course, I'd rather talk about OPS and Dodger prospects, but you asked the question.

2006-08-02 23:07:18
499.   Uncle Miltie
488- everybody hates Ann Coulter. She makes up things to draw attention to herself. I'm sure she doesn't believe most of the garbage that comes out of her mouth (Bill Clinton is gay? Yea right...) She says things to get people riled up. Any publicity is good publicity, especially since she's in the business of selling books. It seems to be working. I admire her for being such a great businesswoman.
2006-08-02 23:08:03
500.   natepurcell
So Teahen is sluggin 535 after a minor league career total slg% of 409. WHat do you make of that oldbear?
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-08-02 23:09:15
501.   natepurcell
sorry I meant Joey. the other name is just second nature to me. Again, honest mistake, sorry.
2006-08-02 23:09:45
502.   ddger
I'm still getting over how Guzman who was probably one of top 20 prospects in baseball just one year ago was given up so cheaply by Ned for 2 months of Lugo. I guess we'll realize how costly this was 5 years down the road. We'd better make the playoffs this year or Ned won't be around too long.
2006-08-02 23:17:52
503.   trainwreck
498
I figured that would be the reason.

Hopefully the Dodgers exert their dominance over the NL West.

Meloan sounds like another quality starter. Our system is ridiculously deep. I don't think any other system could take this many graduations and still be this good.

2006-08-02 23:19:38
504.   CanuckDodger
494 -- The A's had SEVEN first and first round supplemental draft picks in 2002 (more than any team has had in any draft in the 2000's). The "Moneyball draft" is pretty much judged a relative FAILURE given the number of picks and all the bonus money spent, over $9 million, and four first rounders crapping out. The Dodgers by contrast spent only over $5 million in the 2002 draft, had one first rounder and one first round supplemental pick, and so far we have gotten Martin, Broxton, and Loney out of that draft, with Miller, and Young also looking like they will get shots at major league careers.
2006-08-02 23:20:05
505.   Greg Brock
502 With Kemp, Ethier, Repko, Drew, Young, etc., where did Guzman fit in? Sure, Mustache may have gotten more for Joel, but he just wasn't in the plan.
2006-08-02 23:22:32
506.   JoeyP
Teahen did have poor power numbers, but he also had poor contact rates and that didnt seem to matter either. The one skill he did show was isolated patience. Maybe thats the key in developing young hitters? It certainly brings into doubt letting a kid like Aybar go.

As for the person who asked how Wang has had the success he has had. Try 8HRs allowed in 156IP, and a 3-1 GO/AO ratio. He's like the Derek Lowe of the AL, but better.

2006-08-02 23:23:56
507.   natepurcell
lets talk about golf. what driver is in your bag?
2006-08-02 23:25:06
508.   JoeyP
The "Moneyball draft" is pretty much judged a relative FAILURE given the number of picks and all the bonus money spent,

You're wrong. The A's didnt have an unlimited budget with signing their picks that year. Thats why they took Jeremy Brown, bc they knew he would sign.

That draft was an overwhelming success. Teahen, Blanton, and Swisher are above average players. Even the kid Komine is now starting for the A's.

2006-08-02 23:27:32
509.   natepurcell
The one skill he did show was isolated patience. Maybe thats the key in developing young hitters? It certainly brings into doubt letting a kid like Aybar go.

eh, not really a fan of this logic.

2006-08-02 23:28:26
510.   JoeyP
so far we have gotten Martin, Broxton, and Loney out of that draft, with Miller, and Young also looking like they will get shots at major league careers.

Blanton>>>> Broxton/Miller-- unless the other two go back to starting, this is a done deal.

Swisher/Teahen>>>>> Loney/Martin/Young

2006-08-02 23:28:38
511.   Greg Brock
508 That's correct. By all objective standards, looking at the success rates of prior drafts and money spent, the A's "Moneyball" draft is an unmitigated success. Sorry to disappoint you all, but it is.
2006-08-02 23:31:29
512.   natepurcell
for a person that plays the "small sample size" card alot, im suprised you are using Teahen's numbers this year as the foundation for your argument.
2006-08-02 23:34:41
513.   JoeyP
If were just talking drafted players (irregardless of signing):

Oakland-2002
Swisher
Blanton
Teahen
Komine
Papelbon

Thats better than what any team has drafted individually in the 2000's. Florida comes close IMO in 2003 bc IMO they drafted 2 #1 starters in Johnson/Olsen. Thats tough to beat.

2006-08-02 23:37:04
514.   CanuckDodger
508 -- Blanton is not "above average." He is a #4 or #5 starter with nothing in his stuff or record that suggests he can be better than that.

Who said the A's had an unlimited budget? What is relevent is that they spent a lot more on the 2002 draft than any other team, which was unavoidable with so many extra picks. They went cheap with Brown, but they died not do that with the other first round failures, McCurdy, Fritz, and Obenchain. The A's spent nearly DOUBLE what the Dodgers spent, yet they certainly didn't get double the value of what the Dodgers got, and in the long run I think what we got (Martin, Broxton, Loney, Miller, Young and a few others who are longer shots to make the majors but are still not write offs) will be judged a better haul than the A's draftees who made the majors, who right now are further into their careers because they were college picks and are simply older than the guys we drafted.

2006-08-02 23:37:45
515.   dzzrtRatt
Nate, Joey:

You guys are long overdue for a podcast or even a vlodcast (or whatever they are calling it now.) A point-counterpoint format. Flip a coin to determine who gets to call who "you ignorant slut."

Seriously. You should do this.

2006-08-02 23:39:35
516.   King of the Hobos
513 Calling Johnson and Olsen #1 starters might be going a little too far. They're both having nice rookie seasons, but neither figures to be an ace long term (although Olsen should be a nice #2/3).
2006-08-02 23:39:35
517.   ddger
505 I guess prospect rankings can flutuate greatly from year to year or it's really hard to evaluate prospects.
2006-08-02 23:40:26
518.   Greg Brock
513 You're absolutely right

Just a bit of info:
http://tinyurl.com/fu9sr

2006-08-02 23:41:52
519.   JoeyP
Ooops nevermind.
2002 Florida Marlins:
Hermida
Olsen
Johnson

They are real close, if not better.

2006-08-02 23:43:31
520.   caseybarker
293/358/451 in 246 AB Martin 2006
260/351/380 in 50 AB Loney 2006
246/309/376 in 447 AB Teahen 2005
236/322/446 in 462 AB Swisher 2005

Stat lines for rookie seasons BA/OBP/SLG
Martin>Swisher, plus Martin plays a more important position
Loney=Teahen, Loney has a better OBP albeit with a smaller sample size.

2006-08-02 23:44:09
521.   natepurcell
518

I still dont find anything that special about the A's 2002 draft. None of the players are projected for stardom and Teahen was a sean burroughs clone up until this year (which might very well be a fluke as well given his minor league track record).

I mean, swisher is above average and I like him as a player but the others aren't really anything special to write home about.

2006-08-02 23:46:47
522.   JoeyP
I've only read reports about Scott Olsen's talents, and some projections of his being a #1 starter.

Right now, Josh Johnson is a #1 starter. The guy is having an unbelievable season and is only 22. When I saw Baseball America had him at #3 on their top 10 Marlins prospect list, I was stunned. Either BA is wrong, or the Marlins are loaded. I think Olsen was the top guy they had on that list, and he's having a pretty good season.

Hermida is all tools and hype, but he has a chance to be something good. Who knows?

I just place such an emphasis on high end pitching, and Olsen/Johnson have had terrific seasons playing on a very young inexperienced team.

2006-08-02 23:47:43
523.   natepurcell
Hermida is all tools and hype, but he has a chance to be something good. Who knows?

thats false. look harder at his numbers last year.

2006-08-02 23:49:13
524.   Greg Brock
521 I'm pretty shocked that you, above all people, would say that. Look at the success rates for draft picks, the signing bonuses most teams pay, the value that they got in trades, and the overall success of their top picks. By all objective standards, it was a very good draft. Probably not worthy of the hype, but a very good draft.
2006-08-02 23:49:21
525.   natepurcell
Hermida is a statheads dream.
2006-08-02 23:51:13
526.   natepurcell
524

To produce 2-3 mlb players from any draft is a good draft. So by that criteria, it was a good draft. But JoeyP is severely overating the hell out of that draft.

2006-08-02 23:56:12
527.   CanuckDodger
510 -- Broxton is more talented than Blanton, whose repetoire of pitches includes nothing above average. You don't like the role Broxton is in, middle relief, and are holding that against him. Broxton is just getting his feet wet in that role, and everyone knows he is destined to be a closer SOON. In baseball's hierarchy, a closer tops a #4 or #5 starter, as evidenced by the discrepency in salaries they command in the open market.

Miller, we'll see what happens with him, but he's a lefty throwing 95 MPH. That makes him practically a deity in a baseball world that prizes left-handed pitching of any kind (which is why a Hendrickson nets a Navarro in trade). The Dodgers' plan is to move Miller back to starting. If he makes, and stays, in the majors as a hard-throwing southpaw starter, nothing the A's drafted in 2002 beats that.

Swishwer is a first baseman. Martin is a catcher. Martin beats Swisher on position alone, given their respective skills and productivity.

Loney is going to be either a Mark Grace or John Olerud-type first baseman. In the long-run I think he'll better than Teahen, but Teahen has a position advantage.

Young would be an extra outfielder on a contending club, but could be a starter for a team like the Royals or the Pirates.

2006-08-02 23:56:25
528.   Greg Brock
526 I can't control what other people say about that draft. And I agree, the "Moneyball" draft isn't what most people want to make of it. I think most of us just want to prove the value of SABR, and statistics based evaluation. Therefore, we overstate. Not me, of course, but other people.

No, that draft isn't a vindication of stats-based evaluation...I agree with you.

It was, however, a very good draft.

2006-08-02 23:56:28
529.   caseybarker
293/457/518 in 386 AA atbats for Hermida in 2005 with 111 BB and 89 SO. Great SB:CS ratio. I'd say he is more than just hype. And that season was at 21 years old.
2006-08-03 00:02:02
530.   JoeyP
Hermida did have a great 2005.
But he hasnt carried over his excellent BB/K's that he had in the minors, to the major leagues.

Maybe its the approach of the Marlins overall? Most of their players have really bad BB/K ratios. Miguel Olivo's is 5/61!!!

2006-08-03 00:02:10
531.   trainwreck
I was going to say, Hermida is the best player of the bunch. That guy has superstar potential. I thought he was going to be the ROY.

I think Olsen will be better than Johnson in the long run. If he doesn't get banished from baseball for being a jerk.

2006-08-03 00:02:51
532.   natepurcell
528

Well the moneyball draft proved that drafting is still an inexact science. You can find good players and have great drafts using many different philosophies. Hell, the Marlins 2002 draft, and the mlb players that came out of it were all high cieling projection PREP players compared that to the A's low risk, low cieling, production type guys.

there is no inexact science and to say that one way is the only way is just trying to pick an online fight.

2006-08-03 00:02:59
533.   CanuckDodger
513 -- You are giving the A's credit for drafting but not signing Papelbon? Heck, if that is the criteria, we drafted but didn't sign Hochevar in 2002, so the Dodgers should take a bow for that.
2006-08-03 00:03:40
534.   natepurcell
530

a rookie year doesn't make a career.

2006-08-03 00:03:57
535.   trainwreck
527
I disagree about Blanton having no above average pitches. His curveball is definitely above average. At one time he used to be a fireballer, I have no idea what happened.
2006-08-03 00:07:00
536.   Greg Brock
532 I'm a wee bit confused. Did I say there was only one way to draft? Did I pick an online fight?

I sure hope that shot across the bow wasn't directed at me, because I said no such thing. I'll be a little disappointed if it was.

2006-08-03 00:07:32
537.   natepurcell
536

it wasn't directed at you.

2006-08-03 00:07:56
538.   JoeyP
Josh Johnson is my favorite pitcher just bc most of the scouts hate him.

And you gotta cheer for someone that just does the job, puts up the numbers, and still doesnt get much credit.

2006-08-03 00:08:48
539.   natepurcell
it also wasn't really directed at anyone, just a general opinion on statistical analysis and drafting.
2006-08-03 00:09:20
540.   natepurcell
Josh Johnson is my favorite pitcher just bc most of the scouts hate him.

explain that please.

2006-08-03 00:10:30
541.   JoeyP
In baseball's hierarchy, a closer tops a #4 or #5 starter, as evidenced by the discrepency in salaries they command in the open market.

But in reality, its exactly the opposite.
A pitcher the throws more innings, is more valuable than a pitcher that throws less.

You can find closers anywhere. Heck, Oakland just drafted one, had him in the majors the next season, he's put up ok numbers but inevitably he'll flame out and be sold off like Koch.

I think a starting pitcher is more important than any reliever.

So if you asked me whether I'd want Blanton starting games, or Broxton closing games, I'd pick Blanton.

2006-08-03 00:12:36
542.   natepurcell
A pitcher the throws more innings, is more valuable than a pitcher that throws less.

The quality of those innings should matter.

2006-08-03 00:13:27
543.   JoeyP
540. Maybe I should say...I like Josh Johnson, bc he out performs other pitchers whom scouts have liked more. And that, even given his out performing them, the scouts will still stick with the guys they've always liked.

Did you know that Johnson wasnt rated as having the best anything by BA? He didnt have the best fastball, curve, change, etc...Somehow, for a guy that doesnt have many good pitches, he's doing awfully well.

2006-08-03 00:13:49
544.   ddger
I don't know if anyone mentioned this earlier but I heard today on AM 570 (Hacksaw Hamilton) that Drew turned down a trade to Red Sox just before the deadline. Does this mean that Drew will not opt out after this year? Drew just turned down a chance to play in the World Series with Red Sox.
2006-08-03 00:14:04
545.   CanuckDodger
538 -- No scouts hate Josh Johnson. Where are you getting this nonsense? He was highly rated by Baseball America because his scouting reports were better than his Double A stats. Those stats were far inferior to Billingsley's stats (they played in the same league).
2006-08-03 00:16:32
546.   trainwreck
Koch flamed out because he is a moron and threw nothing but fastballs. Oh, you fouled off my fastball and just missed a HR. Well I got a surprise, I bet you can't hit my... fastball!!
2006-08-03 00:16:58
547.   natepurcell
543

If you had looked at his numbers last season, would you have projected him to do what he did this year? No I seriously doubt it. So don't try to spin it off as if the scouts messed up on him, he did not put any strong statisical numbers to fathom the type of success he is having this year.

2006-08-03 00:18:12
548.   trainwreck
544
Isn't Hacksaw full of it?
2006-08-03 00:18:21
549.   King of the Hobos
544 Does Drew have any power to to turn down trades? I don't believe he was given a no-trade clause, and he certainly isnt 10-and-5 yet, so I'm going to call that bogus.
2006-08-03 00:19:41
550.   JoeyP
he did not put any strong statisical numbers

HR/9 might mean more than what you want to believe.

Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2006-08-03 00:21:34
551.   overkill94
Oh yeah, every time someone brings up a hall-of-famer's stats, the first one they bring up is HR/9. Especially their minor-league numbers ;)

Seriously though, I guarantee Olsen has a better career than Johnson. I would bet a ton of money on it.

2006-08-03 00:22:29
552.   natepurcell
550

Carolina's home park hr factor is .87. That is very much on the low endof the spectrum.

2006-08-03 00:23:23
553.   Greg Brock
I'll bet a ton of money that overkill94 will bet a ton of money.
2006-08-03 00:23:58
554.   natepurcell
HR/9 might mean more than what you want to believe.

homerun rate means alot, why do you think i was so down on Tiffany and didn't really think he was that big of a loss? His homerun rate was atrocious.

2006-08-03 00:24:05
555.   overkill94
553 Aha, you've seen my bank transactions over the past few years...
2006-08-03 00:25:48
556.   overkill94
If anything should bring up huge alarms, it's Johnson's less than 2:1 K:BB ratio this year. As many have said before, he has been quite "lucky".
2006-08-03 00:28:26
557.   Greg Brock
I know it's simplistic, but when looking at prospects, I want to know one thing, above all. How often do you miss bats? How often can you strike people out?

To me, that's what matters.

2006-08-03 00:29:10
558.   JoeyP
How do you consider that lucky?
His K/9 is very good.
He doesnt give up many HR's.

His only negative characteristic is his BB/9, but its not like he cant develop control.

The key IMO for a young pitcher is to have the talent to get people out on your own (K/9). And to not get hit hard when the other team does put the ball in play (HR/9). BB's dont both me that much at this stage of a youngster's career.

2006-08-03 00:29:29
559.   natepurcell
557

how about hitters?

2006-08-03 00:32:38
560.   Greg Brock
For hitting prospects, I want to know slugging % and pitches/AB. I know they're often mutually exclusive, but thats what I want to know. How hard do you hit the ball, and how disciplined are you.

Again, that's just me.

2006-08-03 00:34:03
561.   natepurcell
560

Pitches/AB are not easy to find. how much do you take into account age vs level of competition?

2006-08-03 00:36:20
562.   overkill94
Why do they even let women perform comedy? I just watched some chick on Leno and she was worse than awful.
2006-08-03 00:39:08
563.   trainwreck
562
lol. Sarah Silverman is funny.
2006-08-03 00:39:17
564.   Greg Brock
561 This is a completely subjective opinion, but I find that hitters who understand the strike zone in low-A are the hitters who understand the strike zone in AAA. Disciplined, confident hitters understand what a strike is, and don't lose that ability as they mature.

There is the rare hitter, like Magglio Ordonez, who developes an understanding of the strike zone late, but for the most part, smart hitters know the zone. Again, just my opinion (backed up by a little bit of fact).

I want a great hitter. Everybody does. But I want a great hitter who knows what's a strike, and what isn't. I hope that answered your question

It probably didn't.

2006-08-03 00:44:26
565.   Greg Brock
I remember watching the Red Sox vs. Cardinals World Series, and telling my friends, before the series started, "The Cards have no idea what they're in for. Every ball outside the zone is getting looked at, and every ball in the zone is getting hit nine miles." And that's what happened. That power, paired with discipline, is absolutely devastating.

That's what kills the Dodgers. Absolutely no power. You have to have the discipline to look at three balls, and crush the strike that crosses the plate. You have to hit the ball out of the yard. Home runs mean everything in baseball.

2006-08-03 00:46:44
566.   overkill94
563 I agree, Sarah Silverman is actually a funny female. But she is one of the very few...and I think she's hot. Anybody else see her on Celebrity Poker Challenge? She was not only funny, but quite adorable.
2006-08-03 00:48:43
567.   StolenMonkey86
499 - I pretty much half to agree there. Coulter's pretty much the right wing equivalent of Al Franken in degree of, well, maturity.

I'm kinda conservative but with a fairly strong libertarian streak. I shake my head at Ann Coulter sometimes, but I really can't stand Bill O'Reilly. O'Reilly doesn't even try to be funny, and he's just a jerk. I like when he talks about gas prices, though, because I know he's wrong and I can read about him on someone's blog and laugh.

2006-08-03 00:49:00
568.   JoeyP
Greg, do you think strikeouts matter at the minor league level, if they are accompanied with a high P/PA, SLG, and walks?
2006-08-03 00:49:39
569.   StolenMonkey86
564 - I take it you're not about to trade for Jeff Francoeur.
2006-08-03 00:51:25
570.   CanuckDodger
565 -- Home runs do NOT mean everything in baseball. Before Tuesday's games, the Dodgers were 5th in the NL in runs scored but dead last in home runs, and with the 10 runs scored on Tuesday I am pretty sure we leap frogged a couple teams in the runs scored department. Power is just one facet of offense, and a lack of power can be compensated for by great peformance in other facets of offense, like batting average and walks.
2006-08-03 00:53:30
571.   trainwreck
567
There is a real funny blog about Anne Coulter that I can't mention on this site due to profanity. Basically this guy makes up stories about making love with Anne Coulter.
2006-08-03 00:54:19
572.   Uncle Miltie
562- you have to see Lisa Lampanelli. She is one of the best comedians out there period. Her roast of Pamela Anderson was genius.
2006-08-03 00:54:40
573.   JoeyP
But counting on a high batting average is risky, bc BA's fluctuate. And walks are good, but generally if you dont have any power, the walk well will dry up. Theoretically, why would a pitcher be afraid of a guy that has no chance to take him deep?

I was honestly amazed at how much Jose Cruz walked, considering he had no HR power at all. Same with Furcal.

2006-08-03 01:03:21
574.   Greg Brock
568 That's a fair question. Actually, it's a very challenging question. If you believe that the basic function of every hitter is to reach base, I don't really care what a hitter's strikeout total is. I care how often he reaches base.

If you look at the translation between minor league plate discipline and major league plate discipline, you'll find the numbers aren't dissimilar. I just want you to reach base (i.e....not fail).

Me, personally, I care about two things. Do you avoid outs (walks, hits, whatever), and do you put the ball out of the yard. That's what matters to me.

Find the last World Series champion who wasn't top five in Home Runs...Good luck. I'm guessing it's the 80's.

2006-08-03 01:05:52
575.   StolenMonkey86
570 - it is certainly true tha the long ball is not vital to offensive success, but it can turn a couple players' slumps into a slump for the whole team.

The thing about home runs is that they always result in runs. Doubles, even triples, and certainly singles can result in stranded baserunners.

Of course, this would suggest that the probabilities of hitter A and hitter B getting hits are independent events. However, when a pitcher gives up a hit, he will often pitch differently to a hitter, or that may be a sign that he is losing it. Hitter B might become more confident and focus better at the plate. That's why they're called averages and probabilities, because different things happen each time. You still have to play the game.

2006-08-03 01:07:59
576.   trainwreck
I am just going to guess, but the Marlins?
2006-08-03 01:08:27
577.   CanuckDodger
573 -- Pitchers walk batters without being afraid of them all the time -- look at Jose Cruz. It isn't just big power hitters who draw walks. And HR rate can fluctuate just like batting average, while there are some hitters who consistently hit for power and others who consistently hit for high averages (and some who do both). Hitters who consistently hit for power are the costliest in the market, so no team can have sluggers in the 1 through 8 slots of a batting order, but a team can affordably build a line-up out of hitters with the pure hitting skills that tend to produce consistently high averages.
2006-08-03 01:08:50
578.   StolenMonkey86
574 - 2005 White Sox. The Texas Rangers hit 260 bombs.
2006-08-03 01:09:03
579.   bhsportsguy
The great thing about DT is that you can never tell if the Dodgers won or loss by the tone of the commnets. He says that dripping with sarcasm
2006-08-03 01:09:09
580.   Greg Brock
Next time the Dodgers score 2 runs on 11 hits, I want you to tell me how irrelevent the HR is.

When there's power, it's three runs on four hits. Home runs matter.

2006-08-03 01:09:17
581.   StolenMonkey86
what top 5, just a second then
2006-08-03 01:10:16
582.   StolenMonkey86
yep, 03 marlins
2006-08-03 01:10:58
583.   Greg Brock
574 Where did the White Sox rank in the AL in home runs? Top five. I'll bet they did.
2006-08-03 01:10:59
584.   bhsportsguy
BTW, don't know if anyone had an answer for what pitcher with 300 or more wins had the least number of appearances out of the pen, Roger Clemens, who in the regular season, has only appeared in one game that he did not start.
2006-08-03 01:11:08
585.   StolenMonkey86
the 03 marlins were 10th in the NL
2006-08-03 01:12:38
586.   StolenMonkey86
583 - 574 was a result of me misreading the
"top 5" as first place
2006-08-03 01:13:26
587.   StolenMonkey86
the 02 angels were 10th in the AL, putting them in the bottom 5 of that league
2006-08-03 01:13:53
588.   natepurcell
im going to guess 2001 Dbacks.
2006-08-03 01:15:12
589.   StolenMonkey86
586 - bah, I meant 578
2006-08-03 01:15:33
590.   StolenMonkey86
589 - nope the Dbacks were up there
2006-08-03 01:17:55
591.   natepurcell
Dbacks were tied for 7th.
2006-08-03 01:17:58
592.   CanuckDodger
580 -- Your new position is, "Home runs matter?" I am not going to object to that. Before you said, "Home runs are everything." THAT I objected too. There is a huge difference in the two statments.
2006-08-03 01:19:59
593.   Greg Brock
I'm just enjoying everybody searching the baseball cube to prove me wrong...And failing miserably, I might add.
2006-08-03 01:20:33
594.   overkill94
Pitching really does mean something in the playoffs, as exemplified by the non-HR hitting teams mentioned like the '01 D-Back, '02 Angels, and '03 Marlins. The last two champs seem to be more of an exeption to the rule.
2006-08-03 01:21:13
595.   Greg Brock
I didn't say home runs were the end all be all...I just said that if you can't hit them at an elite level, you aren't winning a pennant.
2006-08-03 01:21:57
596.   trainwreck
593
I didn't even search and I got it right.
2006-08-03 01:22:28
597.   overkill94
572 Sorry, I've heard her stuff and she's not funny either. Maybe there's something about the consistently femalecentric material that female comments love to dwell on. As a male, it just isn't funny.
2006-08-03 01:24:24
598.   CanuckDodger
595 -- Is not saying "Home runs are everything" pretty much the same thing as saying "Home runs are the be all and end all"?
2006-08-03 01:26:52
599.   overkill94
Wow, I'm surprised to see so many other people up this late. Personally, I have nowhere to go tomorrow and I'm waiting to see if Sean Casey and Ryan Shealy were claimed on waivers in my AL-only league. What are your excuses?
2006-08-03 01:26:56
600.   Greg Brock
598 Unless the team has Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling...Prove me wrong.

Every WS team is top five in their league in HR's. No home runs aren't everything, but they mean a hell of a lot. Again...Prove me wrong.

Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2006-08-03 01:28:02
601.   StolenMonkey86
World Series Champs in the top 5 of homers in their league
05 Chisox - yep
04 Redsox - yep
03 Marlins - nope
02 Angels - nope
01 Dbacks - yep
00 Yankees - nope (6th)
99 Yankees - nope (8th)
98 Yankees - yep
97 Marlins - nope (10th)
96 Yankees - nope (12th!)
95 Braves - yep
93 BlueJays - nope (6th)
92 BlueJays - yep
91 Twins - nope (6th)
90 Reds - nope (7th)
89 A's - yep
88 Dodgers - nope (8th)
87 Twins - yep
86 Mets - yep

Count 'em up, over the last 20 years that's 50% of WS winners finishing in the top 5 in home runs during the season for their league.

2006-08-03 01:28:21
602.   trainwreck
5999
I have no class tomorrow.
2006-08-03 01:28:30
603.   Greg Brock
For the record, I find the fact that people are willing to minimize the value of home runs one of the most hilarious and misguided things in my lifetime. I love you guys, but seriously...
2006-08-03 01:29:40
604.   natepurcell
I do nothing tomorrow until i wake up and go play golf.
2006-08-03 01:30:28
605.   overkill94
603 Not minimizing, just being realistic. There's a reason the Rangers never even make the playoffs.
2006-08-03 01:30:38
606.   StolenMonkey86
603 - see 96 Yankees
2006-08-03 01:31:55
607.   StolenMonkey86
I'm gonna say it's all about pitching. I'm gonna say WS Champ is always in top 5 of their league in Low ERA.
2006-08-03 01:32:01
608.   overkill94
I don't have much of an agenda tomorrow besides going to the gym before the dodger game starts. Oh yeah, and I have to write up the report that is supposedly keeping me home tomorrow and Friday.
2006-08-03 01:32:54
609.   StolenMonkey86
or combine the two and say HR allowed
2006-08-03 01:34:56
610.   trainwreck
I have to write a paper by friday and then I graduate, or at least I think I do.
2006-08-03 01:35:22
611.   overkill94
This is probably a better question for tomorrow when more people are on, but does anyone know of any good live music venues within 15 miles of West LA for Friday nights? I've got a date coming up with a girl who's a big music fan (as am I) from Texas and would like to impress her with someplace she's never been complemented by some good music (indie rock related if possible).
2006-08-03 01:35:34
612.   Greg Brock
StolenMonkey, I'll completely grant you that list, and concede that your list negates my argument.

Now, how many of those non-HR leaders finished in the bottom third of home runs hit, and how many of those teams led the league in team ERA?

Point being, if you arent' a home run hitting team, I'll bet you're a great pitching squad. Even more, I'll bet your'e a strikeout squad.

2006-08-03 01:38:53
613.   Greg Brock
Honestly, I'm kind of happy this argument arose. In a perfect world:

A) Your batters see a lot of pitches
B) Your batters walk
B) Your batters hit the ball out of the yard
C) Your pitchers miss bats
D) Your pitchers strike people out

When it comes to the farm system, that's all I care about.

2006-08-03 01:46:53
614.   StolenMonkey86
Was the World Series champ in the top 5 of least homers allowed?

86 Mets - yep
87 Twins - nope
88 Dodgers - yep
89 A's - yep
90 Reds - yep
91 Twins - yep
92 BlueJays - nope
93 BlueJays - yep
95 Braves - yep
96 Yankees - yep
97 Marlins - yep
98 Yankees - yep
99 Yankees - yep
00 Yankees - yep
01 Dbacks - nope
02 Angels - nope
03 Marlins - yep
04 Bosox - yep
05 Chisox - nope

So 75% of World Series winners were top 5 in least homers allowed.

2006-08-03 01:48:38
615.   Greg Brock
By the way, the Dodgers are last in the NL in home runs. The last team to make the playoffs while being last in home runs is...

I'll wait.

2006-08-03 01:51:14
616.   Greg Brock
Yup, you're right. Home runs don't matter. Why would anybody want Pujols, or Beltran, or Wright, or Berkman. Me, I'd rather have Lofton.
2006-08-03 01:54:27
617.   StolenMonkey86
612 - I'd go with bottom half power, because the 88 Dodgers didn't make the bottom third of the league. That's still 25% that made it, but they all qualified on the HR allowed list.

Strikeouts would be intriguing to look at, but may not necessarily correlate because you might have superstars that don't do it otherwise. Bottom 5 in errors would be good to look at too.

2006-08-03 01:55:29
618.   StolenMonkey86
because Beltran is better defensively in center, duh. ;)
2006-08-03 01:59:15
619.   Uncle Miltie
Best standup acts I've ever seen (not in order)

Chris Rock- Bring the Pain- I don't find most of Chris Rock's movies funny, but he is an amazing standup comedian. This is an incredible performance.
Eddie Murphy- Delirious- one of the all time greats. You would be shocked to hear how dirty his routine used to be.
Richard Pryor- Live in Concert and Live on the Sunset Strip- those are the only two I've seen from Pryor. He is a legend.
Dave Chappelle- Killing Them Softly- I think everybody has seen Chappelle. He is the modern day Richard Pryor. I wish he'd come back and do his show :(

Dane Cook is one of the better comedians out there.

I can't stand Larry the Cable Guy. He might be the worst comedian I've ever seen. I had a redneck roommate last semester and he absolutely loved this guy. I'd rather watch Robin Williams standup than Larry the Cable Guy.

2006-08-03 02:03:39
620.   StolenMonkey86
615 - probably the 65 Dodgers. They did it, and nobody from 91 on did it in the NL
2006-08-03 02:04:38
621.   StolenMonkey86
619 - I saw Eddie Izzard's "Dressed to Kill." That was good.
2006-08-03 02:05:17
622.   CanuckDodger
616 -- You don't seem to appreciate that there is a continent-sized grey area between the propositions "Home runs are everything" and "Home runs don't matter." You can believe the former if you want, but nobody believes the latter, so there is no point in knocking down that straw man.
2006-08-03 02:07:52
623.   StolenMonkey86
the Dodgers are # 5 in the NL in OPS, tops in OBP (.350 team OBP), and, well 9th in SLG (.425 team). But that's not bad. Irony of ironies, if they pull something off, this just might be the moneyball team
2006-08-03 02:09:07
624.   overkill94
619 Can't say I've seen a ton of comedians besides the Comedy Central Presents shows, but I'd rank my recent favorite comedians this way:

1. Mitch Hedberg (RIP) - mixes Seinfeld-like observations with a counter-culture twist, too bad he only was able to put out two albums

2. Daniel Tosh - up-and-coming guy who has a very vulgar style mixed with a deadpan delivery. I've seen him twice in person and both times he was hilarious.

3. Dave Attell - also pretty vulgar stuff, but done in a very mainstream way that is easy for everyone to like. Very polished.

4. David Cross - more of a storyteller than aything else, his cynical views are pretty hilarious when discussing religion, the south, Los Angeles, etc

5. Jim Gaffigan - pretty offbeat, but his bits are very focused and have everyday appeal.

2006-08-03 02:10:42
625.   StolenMonkey86
623- well, from a firing PDP POV

622, that was hyperbole

616, that is definitely sarcasm, which is frowned up on here.

I'm done enforcing and proving. I'm going to bed.

2006-08-03 02:14:36
626.   Greg Brock
618 That's a very interesting statement. Did you say "duh" to make some kind of point, or were you just being a first class jerk?

I don't believe anybody ever countered your arguments with "duh", so I assume you're just being an ass. It's a shame. You're usually a very pleasant fellow with whom I enjoy good conversation. I love debating the Dodger Thoughts brethren, but when you use such a mean spirited term, like "duh", it really ticks me off. Yup, I'm stupid..You need to say "duh".

I'll tell you what. You have your opinion, and I have mine. No matter what, I'd rather not discuss anything with you anymore. I've never gotten into an argument with anybody on this site, and for good reason.

I may disagree with people, but I've never been mean spirited. I guess I'll just lurk for awhile.

2006-08-03 02:17:33
627.   overkill94
626 Dude, he put a smiley along with it, that's the universal emoticon for "I'm not trying to start a fight".
2006-08-03 02:17:51
628.   bhsportsguy
Its not that sarcasm is frowned around here, its just in the written form, its hard sometimes to distinguish sarcasm from a slam, which is definitely frowned around here.

Also, just my opinion, but anytime an absolute statement is made, it is always going to be challenged and I think the problem is when it is disproven, the reply is something like, well that is my opinion so I am sticking to it, which doesn't endear you to this crowd.

2006-08-03 04:19:12
629.   JoeyP
So it looks like the to win the WS, most teams either have #1. Be in the top 5 of least homers allowed, or #2. Be in the top 5 of most home runs hit.

If you are neither, its rare you'll win the whole thing.

I'm thinking the Dodgers are neither this year.

2006-08-03 04:23:51
630.   JoeyP
If StolenMonkey's numbers are correct, only one WS champion in the last 20yrs has neither finished top 5 hitting/allowing home runs.

That was the 2002 Angels.

So Greg does have a point. Home Runs mean lot. Either you must hit a bunch of them, or dont give any up. It has to be one or the either, hopefully both.

2006-08-03 04:39:37
631.   alexx
611 Like the Troubadour in West Hollywood? Or Hotel Cafe, the Echo in Echo Park, Spaceland, the Smell downtown.. All of these have indie bands mostly.
2006-08-03 06:02:23
632.   Andrew Shimmin
Catching up, I can't remember seeing anyone so thoroughly miss what seems to be very clearly a joke, here.

This may not warrant mention, and is surely out of place, now, but the theory that feminism sees female promiscuity as a defect, or the result of early abuse, is not operative today, if it ever was. I'm not an historian of feminism (everything I know about the suffrage movement I learned from H.L. Mencken), so I couldn't say if that was ever a mainstream feminist theory. But, it's the sort of thing that could get a young man's face slapped if he spouted it off to the wrong feminist, today.

2006-08-03 06:45:59
633.   Steve
What if you spout it to the right feminist?
2006-08-03 07:04:46
634.   Sam DC
John Kruk, very not a fan of the Dodgers' deadline moves: "All in all, I have to say the Dodgers didn't do what they needed to take over the weak NL West."

http://tinyurl.com/pvwj2

That said, his main objections seem to be that the team squandered its bullpen instead of adding middle relief and that the moves were made for the future instead of to win this season.

And no, Steve, I'm not really sure why he thinks those things could be true.

2006-08-03 07:06:57
635.   Sam DC
And Nate, after you wake up and when you're finished playing golf (kids today!), you'll want to read the Bronx Banter "It's Not The Heat" post.
2006-08-03 07:11:24
636.   Andrew Shimmin
633- Sexist.
2006-08-03 07:28:53
637.   Sam DC
I know I'm a sap, but I love this.

http://tinyurl.com/qbdz9

2006-08-03 07:46:26
638.   Daniel Zappala
Ugh. For those who want to carry on long-running arguments in a DT thread -- you ought to pick a topic offline, then each write one, well-thought post explaining your position. That would save a lot of time and improve the site.
2006-08-03 07:47:36
639.   Steve
I have no interest in the inner "workings" of John Kruk's mind, if in fact he has one, as rumored.
2006-08-03 07:49:31
640.   Sam DC
You're getting soft Steve. You forgot the quotes around "mind".
2006-08-06 20:27:06
641.   lbmango
During the current 9-game winning streak the Dodgers have scored 65 runs (7.2 average) while giving up only 23 (2.2 average). Starting pitchers have averaged 6 innings per start, and the Dodgers have made only 1 error.

With good offense, starting pitching going deep into games on a consistent basis, and a combination of good pitching and good defense holding the opposition to slightly over 2 runs a game, your going to win a lot of games.

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