How cheap could the Padres have thought he'd get? Like, Woody Williams cheap?

I also heard that the Dodgers had a deal on the table for JD Drew to the Red Sox for one of their young pitchers that Drew used his no trade clause to reject. Of course that was according to Hacksaw.

2 - So that means zero.

Park lost half his blood volume? Is that like losing half of your blood or something? And he's "expected back soon?" This is a tough game.

Oh, and for the record, I don't ever want my beloved blue crew trading with the Giants unless it's clear the battery chuckers up north are being fleeced. Nothing less than Toby Hall for Jason Schmidt or hang up the phone.

An expensive Drew for a cheap Lester or Hensen would have been nice.

If the Giants were willing to take Pierzynski for Bonser, Liriano, and Nathan, why not Lo Duca? Ah wishful thinking, you can torture yourself all day...

Ken Gurnick was kind enough to answer a couple of my questions (very briefly) directly via email (which I assume means they won't be published in his Dodgers.com mailbag). I hope he won't mind if I re-post them here.

Q1) Why does Ned Colletti continue to deal with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays? Isn't he worried that they're trying to take advantage of him?

Ken: he's dealing with tampa now because they are out of the race, and also because they are unloading expensive players. most teams are still alive.

Q2) How far away do Dodger scouts consider Scott Elbert from the majors - is
there a chance we could see him next year?

Ken: elbert is at double-a, so next year is a possibility.

From the Boston Globe:

"The Red Sox made a call to the Dodgers concerning outfielder J.D. Drew, a player they've coveted because of his on-base percentage, but a no-trade clause in his contract ended the conversation quickly."

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Theo is a bit overrated as a GM...not just because he would go after JD, but because he hasn't done anything particularly amazing, and has made his share of mistakes. It seems like you could be as willing as anyone to accept new evaluation methods, but there is a luck element in how you yourself are evaluated(Sabean, for one, had Bonds and his teams success overshadow everything else).

9.
(The flip side of that would be guys like Dan Evans and Depo who had things that were out of their control color everyones perceptions of them.)

9 David Ortiz.

Not only that he's picked up several useful parts like Bellhorn, Mueller, Arroyo and Pena for peanuts.

5 Your goal is to make the best team, not the cheapest. The Dodgers have the payroll to afford J.D. Drew.

Overrated in the "Boy Genius, best GM ever" sense? Sure. But he's still very good.

13.
Well that's what I meant, he's a good GM to be sure, but he's not perfect by any stretch like many want us to believe. Remember, he's also tried to get rid of Manny, easily their best player, traded away Sanchez and Ramirez, who look like they're going to be studs, traded arroyo and then had pitching problems. I just find it funny that some guys are above regular criticism.

12
I'm aware of that. The thinking behind that comment though is that the money spent on Drew could go toward a cheap Lester/Hensen and a player at or near Drew's caliber, resulting in the best team.

15 Who is avialable that's near Drew's caliber? Carlos Lee is the only guy that's close, but he'll cost more and has an on base about 60 poitns lower.

16
Lee is definitely near Drew's caliber. Will he cost more? Maybe. But are you saying that you would rather have Drew than Lee and Lester/Hensen? Even if it did cost a little more? You said it yourself, it's about fielding the best team, not money. Or maybe the money saved on Drew could go to sign another starting pitcher. In the end, this argument is pointless since Drew will be a Dodger for the forseeable future anyway.

17.
Lee is also older and entering his decline period, where power tends to slip faster than OBP does.

Alright, Drew's better than Lee. Not arguing that. I like him better too. I guess when I guy see's a chance to add a young, stud pitcher to a rotation that currently includes Lurch's cousin, he gets excited.

18 Isn't the opposite true? It's my impression from reading the old Bill James abstracts that batting average (highly correlated with OBP) is the first skill to go as a player ages, and that most players actually increase their power as they age.

Is there more recent research that refutes that?

I have not seen anything, either at the time Drew signed his contract, to my favorite site mlb4u.com that list details of player's contracts that indicates that Drew has a no trade clause.

It's possible that hang up was his player option but since Hacksaw was said it was a no trade clause than I have to believe he was just wrong.

There is that World Series he engineered after 80 years (or whatever it was). That buys a lot of good will in Boston. Not to mention the Red Sox remain competitive in baseball's toughest division. I don't think anyone considers him perfect (no Gm is) but most of his moves have worked out for the better.

And don't forget Thanksgiving with the Schillings.

21 It's possible that hang up was his player option but since Hacksaw was said it was a no trade clause than I have to believe he was just wrong.

Extremely probable, considering we are talking about Hacksaw.

24 A favorite story that Steve Mason tells is the time they had someone call Hacksaw's show and they asked him about a player and went on to talk about that player's skills. The caller made up the name of the player.

20.
I remember those too, but after reading in Moneyball that the A's believed OBP was the last thing to go down(about David Justice, I believe), I started thinking about it a bit more. Batting averages do go down in the decline period and are a good indicator, but all of this depends on the type of player. A selective hitter like Drew should not see much drop in his OBP and probably not his BA either. He looks for mistakes by the pitcher, and his walks aren't a result of pitchers nibbling around the strike zone. Carlos Lee get's on base because pitchers are afraid of getting into his power zone, he's not quite selective and as his natural power decreases, his walks and his BA may go down. He is already a natural power hitter, so the power spikes we could expect from an uppercut swing compensatng for decreasing leg power, bat speed, etc. shouldn't manifest in his case.

20., 26.
I didn't bother to check while writing that, but looking at their PECOTA projections on BP, it seems about right. They see stable OBP for Drew with a slight decrease in power, but some drop in OBP for Lee with a significant power drop.
One more interesting thing about PECOTA, Izzy's contract is entirely in line with his monetary valuation at shortsop in BP's system. You gotta believe Depo was looking at that...

NL West news, I am listening to the Dback pregame show and they've reported that B. Webb has flown back to Phx for a precautionary MRI. No structural damage suspected, but inflammation and soreness of the elbow, pointing towards tendonitis. Still scheduled to make his next start.

According to Henson in the Times this morning, the Dodgers and interested in keeping Maddux around for 07.

29
I'd be more surprised if Ned didn't try to keep Maddux around. The guy is a quintessential Colletti player.

With Milton pitching tonight, we should see Repko in the lineup.

Hochevar news on the Griddle.

30 Can we really say what type is Colletti's type? I mean we might infer something from his offseason acquisitions: Lofton, Mueller, Baez, Carter, and whoever else. All these certainly form a type (i.e. mediocre veterans, who know how to win, or how to go about their business or whatever the excuse is for signing them). But after one year, we might think that Colletti went after this type, as has often been said, as placeholders until all the kids are ready. Perhaps these aren't his "type" at all, however much time he spent with SF.

25

i recall them doing that with runners. mason would call and ask about the chances of a made up american marathoner in the boston marathon, and hacksaw would spend a minute or two talking about that runner and how difficult it would be to beat the ethiopians or kenyans. almost as good as the guys who would call in and flush the toilet.

even though i live 1700 miles away, some friends and i still belt out some hacksaw classics: "down it, firefighter!" and "la jolla, i want to hear from you!"

good times.

SD should have known better. They don't have enough ex-Devil Rays to offer, although I'm sure Dewon Brazelton for Guzman would have worked for Ned.

35
When Ned wants Devil Rays, he goes directly to the source.

JD Drew over Carlos Lee? Really? Wow. I understand we're all supposed to be drunk on OBP here. I'm as big an OBP proponent as anyone but, heck, at some point you need someone who will MASH and cash that OBP in.

I also get the decline years concept. But, in the next 5 years, what exactly will Drew decline from? A .390 OBP and...what, chronically fragile knees? Will the decline years be good on those knees? I guess I'm just not sure normal 'decline year' projections will apply to JD Drew.

37 Carlos Lee has slugged over .500 twice. He's not an elite power hitter.

Plus, Drew is a much better fielder. Lee has career 98 rate2 and is middle of the pack in probablistic model of range.

37 Just for a quick and dirty look at things, Drew has slugged .508 over his career while Lee has slugged .493.

Lee's body of work has been over a heck of a lot more PAs than Drew with Drew's injury problems and all.

I'd take Drew over Lee, but I'd take Lester for Drew in a heart beat. Lester is already doing well, and looks like he could be great.

How hurt is Nixon? Were the Sox looking for an expensive fill in, or is there now reason to wonder whether Drew might opt out of his contract? Actually, this is completely made up, so it isn't grounds for anything. My mistake.

Nixon is supposed to be out for 2-4 weeks. Remember that the Red Sox are under a lot of pressure to try to make a big trade if the Yankees make one too.

The Red Sox do things like pick up Mike Stanton to be available for two regular season games.

It's a very strange world the Yankees and Red Sox inhabit. I would not want to be part of it.

It's a very strange world the Yankees and Red Sox inhabit

That world is sometimes referred to as "ESPN"

It's a very strange world the Yankees and Red Sox inhabit. I would not want to be part of it.
I've always regarded the rest of the AL East as kin to Europe's Low Countries. When war breaks out between the superpowers, their lands will be ravaged and thousands will die.

Speaking of ESPN, John Kruk refered to the Dodgers offense as "too old" today (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?page=shorthops_060802). Obviously no research is necessary if you used to play baseball...

37.
I think this is the worst year we're going to see from Drew in this contract, barring a major injury.

34 Those beer commercials always gave me the chills, not that there's anything wrong with that.

32 Well Boras got his major league contract, I wonder if this year will count as an option year. But then, wouldn't surprise me to see Hochevar pitch with the Royals this year.

45 Gack, I wish there was a way to post a comment in response to Kruk's krukisms. He's certainly free to say the Dodgers have their issues, and free to doubt whether they can win the west, but his comments seem dumb and particularly the one about the offense. Note the opposite comment from the ESPN researcher below Kruk on that same page.

I didn't realize that Hacksaw was still on the air. Didn't he get fired from a broadcasting job one time for using a racial slur?

John Kruk is right, the dodgers need to get a rookie or two in this lineup.

BTW, is anyone here still disappointed that we did not get Brian Giles this year. Sure he could end up costing 14M-15M less than Drew over the life of their remaining contracts (For Drew, I am using just this year and the next 3 years while for Giles, I am using his full contract plus bonus and buyout.) But I can't believe Giles is going to get any better, he really his a leadoff or 2nd spot batter, not a third place hitter.

50 Hacksaw was not fired, he does updates, the best 5 minutes of radio during the week and then does shows on Saturday and Sunday. He has apologized in the past about questionable things he has said on the air.

52 I didn't mean fired from that job, He was a broadcaster for football and baseball teams in the past. I believe that was where he was fired from.

Hacksaw was going to get a job as the radio play-by-play man for the Vikings a couple of years ago, but the people in Minnesota didn't like some of his more outrageous statements and the Vikings reneged.

Because the Minnesota Vikings are a high-class organization!

I remember listening to him once call a Chargers game and hearing him use a mild profanity when a Chargers lineman jumped offside. Something along the lines of "D-----, Shawn Lee (a name along those lines), that's the third time you've done that at a crucial time. That's inexcusable!"

Except he was really angry. It sounded most unprofessional.

53 I think those were mostly due to the fact that the station he worked for no longer broadcast those team's games.

Joe Sheehan has an interesting free article on baseballprospectus.com on Jeff Cirillo's comments on how the balls are soaked at Coors Field this year.

One little tidbit, Jeff Francis has Batting average against at home this year of .202

Don't listen to him much anymore but occasionally Jim Rome will go to the wayback machine and while not naming names, use a weak Hacksawlike voice and say "Down it firefighter" or "Rancho Bernardo, I want to talk sports with you right now"

Personally id much rather have Hacksaw spouting off for 5 minutes than having to listen to Vic "The Brick" for 3 hours at a time.

Found it.

http://www.blackathlete.net/Editorial/editorial083001.html

All of Hacksaws major blunders are found there.

Rome always calls him butter knife. :)

Portrait of the loudmouth as a young man: Hacksaw started in Phoenix, about 25 years ago. When he left for California, I recall there was much rejoicing.

The Dbacks appear on their way to moving into a tie for first place. They lead 7-1 against the Cubs in the first game of a doubleheader.

I saw this in my brother's University of Chicago alumni magazine. It's a pretty interesting article about a recent graduate who goes from being a financial analyst to playing minor league baseball in Italy.

http://tinyurl.com/j826a

For anyone who is interested the EBAY auction for Bonds 715 HR ball is about to end in 10 mins.

Nate and others, this is the reported numbers by John Manuel of Hochevar's deal.

The Royals announced they have agreed to terms on a major league contract (through 2009) with Hochevar, the No. 1 overall pick from the 2006 draft.

As with several other Boras holdouts, the maneuver worked for Hochevar. After agreeing to (and then changing his mind and declining) a $2.98 million contract with the Dodgers last year, Hochevar pitched in independent ball, flashed three plus pitches and improved his draft standing. He not only went No. 1 overall, but he signed a contract that guarantees him more than 60 percent more money than he declined from the Dodgers last September. His contract also is believed to have escalator clauses in it for being on the 25-man big league roster, which could swell the overall value of the deal to close to $7 million.

57 - Gosh, California media laws must be strict. Here in Arkansas, if we don't want to listen to something, we can just turn the radio off.

I am proud to know naught of Hacksaws nor Bricks.

63
Sold, for $220,100!

Speaking of analysts...Did we ever find out anything more about why Harold Reynolds was canned?

Can this be right? Greg Maddux, future HOFer, makes his first appearance in an LA Dodgers uniform and Prime Ticket is not showing the game?

Sheesh. What idiot does their marketing?

(Apologies to their execs if it was contractually precluded.)

67 Sexual harassment. A lot of it.

well the game is on KCAL-channel 9

69 - That's the official reason? Damn, that's a bummer. It's more airtime for the windbag twins Kruk and Phillips.

67 Like I said at the time, not offering Hochevar the piddling extra $1M was stupid. Driving a hard negotiation - fine. Not signing him when all that seperated the parties was $1M - stupid. Most people jumped and cheered when he was not signed as some sort of "victory" over Boras - but in the end, $4M for risk Hochevar represented was reasonable. I am glad to see he got such an amazing deal from KC.

im glad he went to Kansas City.

58 confucius
All of Hacksaws major blunders are found there.

I wonder how many are accurate quotes. For example he misquotes Campanis. If he can't get a well know quotation right, how can you trust the other so called quotes?

Ken Gurnick was kind enough to answer a couple of my questions (very briefly) directly via email

Ken Gurnick is dead to me.

75 Bluebleeder87

That's enlightening.

I don't care if he IS a withered, washed-up shell of his former self. I love Greg Maddux and I'm thrilled that he'll be pitching for the Blue. I'm really looking forward to tonight's game.

72 It seems like it was just the money though. Did Hochevar want a MLB contract from the Dodgers?

For a team that has to worry about 40-man roster problems, signing a recent draftee to a MLB contract might not be in their best interest.

On the flip side, Hochevar might be the most talented pitcher in the Royals system now so it makes sense for them to offer him whatever he wants.

Was Kent not eligable to come off the DL yesterday?

78 Boras wanted a similar deal that he got Craig Hansen who was the 25th or 26th pick that year which included a MLB contract.

Remember, he was drafted in a slot area where 1 million dollar signing bonuses are high, they offered him top ten signing bonus money and he did not take it.

From what I read, the total amount of the deal could reach 7 million dollars, which is much more than the 2.98 million deal that was initially agreed too.

79 I think so, though reports are he may play in Florida over the weekend.

From what I read, the total amount of the deal could reach 7 million dollars, which is much more than the 2.98 million deal that was initially agreed too.

Don't you just love America.

75 I was looking up Colbert's current lists of "On Notice" and "Dead to Me" and was happy to be reminded that there are in fact three lists, with the additional "Never Existed to Me".

http://tinyurl.com/rrgv8

I'm thinking once Kent get's back, Lugo will be the one playing were ever the Dodger ask him to play.

80 I haven't read the details, but just looking at a from a "did the team get value for its money" perspective, if the incentives to get you to $7 million click in doesn't that mean you've got a well performing hot young pitcher under club control for a good long time? Such creatures are extremely valuable and hard to find -- certainly cost you a heck of a lot more than $7 million in the FA market.

Now, I realize it's a long game and the Dodgers felt they had other interests and priorities at stake.

It's hard to justify paying prospects a lot of money if you're going to turn around and trade them for banjo-hitting middle infielders anyway.

86
I was wondering about this last night. What is the origin of the term "banjo hitting?"

I apologize for comment 640 in the last thread, Steve. I was completely wrong.

83-

Far be it for me to question America's Greatest Hero, but the cast of Friends should be on the "Never Existed to Me" list.

Not to mention irregularly tall but untalented pitchers and history events from the early 1960's.

That crafty DePo going after Guzman.

Well the Banjo actually came from Africa, not the South like most people think. As for the term banjo hitting I have no idea.

certainly cost you a heck of a lot more than $7 million in the FA market.

That's operating under the assumption that Hochevar is going to be good.

im glad he went to Kansas City.

Me too. Hope he likes losing.

Following Hochevar's weirdness with his agents last season, put a Milo on him.

91 trainwreck
That crafty DePo going after Guzman.

I suppose he then contacted Oakland and inquired about A. Perez.

hey, did you guys see the new Dodgers.com banner? Saito's up, Gagne's out. Also included are Ethier and Martin, but I can't quite decipher who that is in the middle.

Have you ever tries to hit a baseball with a banjo? It doesn't go very far.

93 Not assuming he'll be good. Assuming there's a fair chance he'll be good (he's pitched well at relatively high levels compared to a prep draftee, for example) and believing it is smart to risk that much money on that kind of upside. It might work, it might not. But where top FAs are getting $10M-15M per year, and teams need to have a lot of prospects in the pipeline cause you never know which'll pan out, I think it was a mistake that the Dodgers did not get the side issues fixed and get this guy into the system.

Is a four year $50 million contract to Jason Schmidt a better risk?

tried

Sigh.

96
Furcal.

Me too. Hope he likes losing.

Well atleast he'll be closer to home.

Personally id much rather have Hacksaw spouting off for 5 minutes than having to listen to Vic "The Brick" for 3 hours at a time.

Except The Brick has now entered the realm of wild self-parody (unintentially, of course). Just think of it as comedy, and it's hilarious. Teams win because of "la passion", Kobe can do no wrong, DePo was the devil, and the Dodgers are bad this year because they traded Lo Duca, Cora, and Izturis.

102
Is he really Bill Plaschke?

Recent-ex-Dodger infielders are 0 for 8 today if anyone's scoring at home.

Man, what sort of pitching are the Cubs throwing up there today? (Phrasing intentional.)

Recent-ex-Dodger infielders are 0 for 8 today if anyone's scoring at home.

Man, what sort of pitching are the Cubs throwing up there today? (Phrasing intentional.)

98.
No the contract to Schmidt wouldn't be a good idea, either. Just because one idea is better than the other doesn't mean both are terrible ideas. Hochevar will probably hurt his arm, lose command of one of his pitches, or any other of the inexplicable problems that lead to Oliver Perez type disappearances. This deal is great for him because he probably won't last to see a bigger one. There is some truth to TNSTAAPP

96

I just to a peek & it's still the same to me?

Recent computer server glitches are 2 for 2 today if anyone's scoring at home today. (Sorry.)

Meanwhile, still no line-up. Repko's gotta be starting today.

Hochevar will probably hurt his arm, lose command of one of his pitches, or any other of the inexplicable problems that lead to Oliver Perez type disappearances.

I'm not sure how to respond to that argument. Anything could happen to anyone, but teams still have to have players. I'm just talking about what risks make sense -- acknowledging that they are in fact risks.

I appreciate the point of view that this is just too much money to risk on a pitcher at this point in his career. I don't agree given the market, but I understand where you're coming from, if that's what you're saying.

Anyhow, I am logging off now for a while, so if I don't respond to further comments, that's why.

Meanwhile, still no line-up. Repko's gotta be starting today.

I really hope so.

Banjo hitters are really bad, but they don't compare to the lowest class of all: ukelele hitters.

This elite class consists of hitters with a long, storied career of terribleness. Neifi Perez is a member of this group, and Royce Clayton is filing for membership soon.

96 It looks the same to me as well, but I have always wondered who that was in the middle. Nomar?

I'm trying to evaluate the validity of a rumor that Ethier has been seen down to AAA...

113 - where did you hear that?

did you know Lugo and Maddux are the lightest guys on the team now?

111

I hope Izzy dons't join that club, but he is nocking at the dore.

That's preposterous, D4P! Did that come from Hacksaw or John Kruk?

maybe they're trying to make their lineup older to vindicate Kruk.

I don't think they would have put Ethier on the banner if he was gonna be sent down to AAA, nor would they send him down unless they got Soriano for free or something.

I don't like the new banner on Dodgers.com.

95 Fallout

OK, I'll be my own straight man.
I suppose he then contacted Oakland and inquired about A. Perez.

But DePodesta's boss wouldn't allow him to trade Dave Roberts for Perez.

I doubt the rumor is true, but I got a chuckle out of it.

As you were.

My opinion of Ned Coletti is not yet that low where I believe he will actually even consider demoting his best hitter to AAA.

I don't know why you put Furcal in the center.

What does it say that Kent, Drew, and Nomar are not in there at all?

No one knows for certain the exact origin of "banjo hitter", but it probably has something to do with the fact that a banjo hitter doesn't make solid contact often and the balls leaves the bat with a funny sound.

It took me a while to realize when I was futilely trying to learn golf that the best swings came with almost no sound.

I guess I'm the only one not seeing the new banner. I still see Kent, Fur-kel, Nomar, Gagne, and Drew.

According to Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge:

The name is said to come from the twanging sound of the bat at contact, like that of a banjo.

125 That's what you get for the Ethier rumor.

It was quite a few comments ago, but I actually laughed out loud (LOL) at whoever was pondering whether Theo Epstein was "overrated."

Is winning the World Series and getting in the playoffs continually despite playing in a very tough division just not enough for some of you guys? Is it that you have to do it the right way? I realize that logic is the supposed rationale for sabermetric thinking, but results in the actual (vs. Pythagorean) world actually do count for something.

Sabermetrics is rapidly hardening into dogma. Pretty soon you'll be applying to the IRS for a tax exemption as a church!

125 - It must be some sorta cached version on your system. I went to MLB.com and clicked on a Dodger link to get the new one.

still no lineup. Ok Rawich, what's going on over there?

Matt Kemp is a Jimmy Page-style double-neck guitar hitter.

Ooh, and thanks to that, I now know that the best Vlad has been able to do the past few games is hit a Baltimore Chop.

I should have included the URL:

http://www.thatsbaseball.org/id95.htm

my guess is either Kent is ready to come off the DL, they're adjusting the rotation so Billingsley can pitch in Cincy, or Josh's computer has gone Dreifort again

126
Wikipedia celebrates 750th anniversary of American independence!
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50902

Josh said earlier this week he isn't on the trip - he said there might not be an early lineup on Inside the Dodgers.

The DT crowd will also be interested to know that "barn ball" was apparently a forerunner to "smear the queer". Good to know that as far back as the late 1800s you could play a game that involved throwing a ball at someone else before they touched the wall.

113-That has to be a rumor! No way you send down Ethier that is consistently producing runs. By the way, thinking of all the talk lately of all our prospects and how we should dump all our veterans made me think of those glory days in the 70's. The Dodgers farm system produced a bumper crop of ML players, Cey, Garvey, Lopes, Yeager, Fergie, Russell, Paciorek, ect... Even then though the Dodgers had to supplement those with veterans that were traded or acquired, like Dusty Baker, Reggie Smith, Andy Messersmith, Burt Hooton and Tommy John to name a few. In a front-running town like LA, you can't afford to have too many non-competitive years in a row, otherwise you become yesterday's news. While a great farm system is the best way to maintain long term success by developing players in your system, there is always going to be room for a role player that is acquired to fill a hole a prospect may not be ready to fill at the time. Remember, not every prospect pans out, Greg Brock, Jeff Hamilton, ect.. didn't have very long prosperous careers so a GM needs to balance what and who he acquires. Now this doesn't excuse Ned for seeming to acquire all the Rays spare parts, if he traded for Crawford, Baldelli or Kazmir that's one thing, but Hall, Hendy, Baez and Lugo call into question what he is up to.

I guess I'm the only one not seeing the new banner. I still see Kent, Fur-kel, Nomar, Gagne, and Drew.

I don't like it.

135 Clearly that Onion article is wrong. It was Matt Kemp who incinerated the Stamp Act by looking at it and then roundhouse kicked the entire British Army into the Atlantic.

136 - Ah, good call.

From "trade coverage"
I'm actually not on this road trip, so lineups may be a little later than usual and sometimes I won't be able to post them at all, but please be patient.

I guess we'll have to wait.

Why is Saito shaking his fist at Rafael Furcal? That reminds me of those hilarious Japanese baseball cartoons. "You make another error, Raffy, and I'll take you to the woodshed!"

141

is he on vacation or something? (Josh)

102- Whats funny is recently they had an arguement that basically came down to the question "Would you trade Brad Penny for Paul LoDuca straight up?" Ofcourse everyone said yes except for the brick. I think I almost flew off the road...

I'm predicting that in tonight's lineup, Greg Maddux will be batting ninth.

And tonight will be the first time for DTers to give the team's only certain first ballot HOFer a lot of heat for not being perfect.

144 - Meaning if LoDuca was still on the dodgers would you trade him to the marlins for Penny. sorry for not being clear.

143

Presumably Josh Rawitch doesn't go on every road trip because he doesn't want to or have to.

Cincinnati and Miami during hurricane season isn't exactly a glamorous trip.

D4P, I am indeed StuckinDukewithDodgerBlues. I stopped posting on that board because it was overpopulated by insane yahoos. I like the people here much better. I am out of Durham now, but I have fond memories...

As with several other Boras holdouts, the maneuver worked for Hochevar.

BP did a pretty solid debunking of the value of holding out in the chapter about Varitek's holdout in "Mind Game." If Hochevar really thinks he'll be a star, then why push his free agent period back a year? A young star pitcher five years from now will make at least $15 mil/year, I would guess. Hochevar just gave up one of those years to play independent league ball for minimum wage. Not to mention losing the chance to play for a perennial contender. Good thinking, Luke.

148
Good to see you again. We ate at Chai's last night. Yum!

In other news, it's really hot today...

The Padres are up 2-zip on the Astros in the 5th, and have the bases loaded with 2 outs (against some pitcher named Albers...)

Dodgers may need to win today just to not lose any ground to the teams ahead of them.

Er, make that 4-zip.

145 - Just to make us all feel good about Greg Maddux, I'll add this link.

http://tinyurl.com/zvq3v

Since the Reds are ahead of the Dodgers in the wild card, a win would be a good thing.

The Reds would give up the checkered jersey with a loss today combined with an Arizona win.

153 - ok, not a link, but URL. whatever

I'm pretty disappointed that Widd Workman generated no interest.

Who would you rather have:

Hochevar for $4M
Tomko for $4M
Hendrickson for $?
Another shortstop for the bench @ $4M
Lofton for $4M

on and on. Dodgers blew that one.

I've been down the Widd Workman road before.

It's like Highway 99. It's not very interesting.

140 lol he must have stolen Sonny Dolamite's pimp cane.

156 I remember Judd, but not Widd.

I believe the reason that Jim Bruske got traded to San Diego was that he yelled at Tommy Lasorda in the clubhouse. So he sent him off there. And then Bruske made his way to the Yankees.

And got to collect TWO World Series bonus checks.

Ahhh... Widd Workman who went from San Bernardino to Vero Beach to San Antonio and out. Does San Bernardino have a team anymore?

LA Times, 7/24/1998

Pitcher Jim Bruske, anxious to get more work on the mound, will get his chance.

With the San Diego Padres.

Dodger General Manager Tommy Lasorda traded the unhappy right-handed reliever to the Padres on Thursday for minor-league right-hander Widd Workman despite the fact that Bruske is 3-0 with a 3.48 earned-run average and despite the fact that the move strengthens the division leaders.

In the new Dodger front office, there seems to be little patience with malcontents, regardless of the cost.

161 Does San Bernardino have a team anymore?

Yep, the "Inland Empire" 66ers.

http://www.ie66ers.com/

Not a good sign when you've been draft four times, in a lower round each time.

Dodger General Manager Tommy Lasorda

Please, this is a family-friendly site.

Clayton Kershaw is much too good for the Gulf Coast league. Today he pitched six innings, giving up only four singles, walking none and striking out 11 while giving up one earned run. This kid is going to be crazy good.

Why are the Astros wearing retro jerseys? They should be immediately removed and burned, and both the original uniform designer and whoever decided to have a retro day should be shot.

150 - Forget Chai's, go to Grasshopper. The food is way better, sit out on the patio and have a red ale. Order some Cha Gio and the Red Curry seafood hot pot (enough to share) and enjoy. Chai's is a little corny, and the food is too Americanized.

"Dodger General Manager Tommy Lasorda" - yeah, that makes me fairly queasy... How did we survive that period and still remain Dodgers fans? Sort of like the hearty souls who survive a natural disaster.

166 Amazing. I suppose it's too late in the year to promote him beyond that? But boy... I could see him skipping through levels quickly next year.

128.
Not to start an argument from before...but I was the one that posted that and I'm a bit offended. Yes Epstein won a world series, but so has Brian Cashman and he is hardly mentioned in the same way Epstein is. It's a very expensive team with huge resources and they've made their share of mistakes, which are rarely discussed. I'm not saying he's a bad GM, he's one of the better ones, but I think it's ridiculous to label him the "boy genius." Since the WS, he's had a bad Varitek contract, thinking Boomer could pitch, the Clement signing, the Beckett for Sanchez/Ramirez trade that looks bad right now. In the national media(I don't know about in Boston) he seems to get a bit of a free pass because of the WS.

July 9, 1998 - LA Times

The deal that sent Paul Konerko and Dennis Reyes to the Cincinnati Reds for closer Jeff Shaw on Saturday was among the most-discussed topics at the All-Star break in Denver.

The consensus was that Cincinnati General Manager Jim Bowden outfoxed Tom Lasorda.

Many baseball officials were stunned that the Dodger interim general manager traded Konerko--last season's minor league player of the year--and the left-handed Reyes, who was selected the organization's top pitching prospect last season.

Most Dodger officials believe Konerko will be a 30-homer, 100-RBI player for the next decade--and scouts in other organizations agree. Reyes is considered a potential 200-inning-plus pitcher.

D'oh, I forgot they were playing a DH in Chicago today - it's 3-0 Cubs already in the "nightcap" (late afternoon-cap?)

The Mets just signed Reyes to a 4 year deal, prolonging his free agency by at least one year. Now Ned will need wait an additional year to sign Reyes as the team's 10th SS.

166
Promote him!

from that same article...

"The Dodgers and Seattle Mariners have resumed talks about left-handed pitcher Randy Johnson. The Mariners want right-handed reliever Antonio Osuna, who was bumped from the closer role by Shaw, and second baseman Wilton Guerrero."

Jul 26, 1998
"The Dodgers soon could be sending out another youngster for a veteran pitcher. Unless that pitcher can get them to a World Series, let's hope that youngster is not Adrian Beltre or Wilton Guerrero." - Bill Plaschke

162

I have to admit that made me chuckle.(I love Tommy)

176
:o

Osuna and Guerrero for Randy Johnson? Dear God, that's almost as painful as Edwin Jackson for Pujols.

To think what could have been....

Forget Chai's, go to Grasshopper. The food is way better, sit out on the patio and have a red ale

Yeah, we like Grasshopper too, though we have only been there once. We're waiting for the weather to cool off (and bugs to go away) before we go sit outside there again.

The Mariners want right-handed reliever Antonio Osuna, who was bumped from the closer role by Shaw, and second baseman Wilton Guerrero.

So...what's changed?

172 and Shaw got about a bazillion saves for a .500 ball club.

And Konerko would just be blocking Loney, anyway... (just kidding)

Furcal, SS
Lugo, 2B
Drew, RF
Saenz, 1B
Ethier, LF
Betemit, 3B (good to see Dodger Thoughts taking the Pearl Jam reference a step further)
Martin, C
Repko, CF
Maddux, P

The Betemit comment is Rawitch's, not mine.

167 They are?! I <3 Astro retro jerseys. :D They are the most awesome design ever. How could you not like them?

163

I wish the dodgers still had a team there. Where is the nearest one? Vegas.

180 - Ha. Good point. George is too cheap to put in enough AC there so the inside is a little too authentically south east asian. It is usually in the mid 80s-early 90s with 100% humidity.

Josh posted the lineup, and has a bit of info in there.

Furcal
Lugo
Drew
Saenz
Ethier
Betemit
Martin
Repko
Maddux

From The Onion's trade deadline surprises:

"The Mets deal for two fresh arms, then surgucally attach them to Victor Zambrano."

more: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51322

179 It was actually Jackson for Dunn, but still.

183 Repko batting 8th? WFT?

I like this lineup today

183 That's a pretty good lineup there. Lugo seems a better fit as a #2 hitter, Lofton's out of the lineup, Repko's in (but batting eight), Saenz is in to murder the lefty.

I remember all tose RJ rumors. First it was Beltre, then Nomo, then Valdes. How about all three...

From Josh:

given that Kenny is batting .294 overall and has been very steady offensively all year, despite his occasional defensive issues, it would be hard to justify pulling him from the lineup altogether.

If by "hard" you mean "easy," then I agree.

It was actually Jackson for Dunn, but still.

I thought back in the day (when Pujols was just an unknown first-baseman) we were interested in trading for him, but balked when the asking price was Edwin. Am I just mixing up two different trade rumors?

This newspaper archive is a painful awful thing...

June 3, 1993

"While the Dodgers waited in the No. 2 position, the Seattle Mariners, who have the first pick in today's amateur draft, reversed their field Wednesday, deciding to take shortstop Alex Rodriguez of Miami's Westminster Christian High over Wichita State relief pitcher Darren Dreifort, who will now be selected by the Dodgers.

The Mariners had been leaning toward Dreifort as a pitcher who could become the bullpen closer when Norm Charlton possibly leaves as a free agent after the 1994 season. However, a club official said Wednesday that the Mariners were now favoring Rodriguez because of his potential as an everyday player and the physical gamble involved in drafting a pitcher."

George is too cheap to put in enough AC there so the inside is a little too authentically south east asian. It is usually in the mid 80s-early 90s with 100% humidity.

Ugh. We have been hanging out at Whole Foods lately to take advantage of their AC. We think my wife's boss (another "George") may be a business partner of Restaurant George, but we're not sure. They're very "hush hush" about it. Her boss is cheap too, so it would be a good match...

Ooh, Randy Johnson and Alex Rodriguez on the same team. Now that would have been something to see. We could have been ...

Oh, never mind.

..."and the physical gamble involved in drafting a pitcher." <--- How prescient that write-up was (and the Mariners, too).

Sigh.

Rodriguez asked the Mariners not to pick him so he could play in a big market like LA. If only the Mariners were the San Diego Chargers and Alex Rodriguez was Eli Manning.

Of course Rodriguez has really been stinkin' it up out there in the Bronx.

195
A-Rod attended a Christian high school...? I guess they skipped over Luke 12:15...

Stop reading all those old papers...

Don't you know what the saddest words in the English language are?

"Mark Hendrickson gets the start for the Dodgers tonight."

201 It certainly is much less sad than when they read "Carlos Perez gets the start for the Dodgers tonight."

196 - Anything involving restaurant George is bound to be shady. All of his restaurants (George's, Parizades, Vin Rouge, Grasshopper, Bin 54, Spice Street, Verde) are sloppily run and sometimes have inconsistent food. Some of them have been losing money for years and yet they are still around. I think that Vin Rouge and Grasshopper are fun and the food is usually pretty good there. Other than that, pass.

201 Did Ford Maddox Ford write that?

201 - "Scott Erickson gets the start for the Dodgers tonight."

201-- Stop reading all those old papers...

yeah those papers make you're heart pump a little faster then you'd like it to.

172 - Odd thing is about that trade and all the accompanying criticism Lasorda takes, the Dodgers won it.
Seriously.
LA received 3-1/2 seasons from Shaw where he delivered 129 saves with a very good ERA+.
Meanwhile, what did the Reds get?
Reyes delivered 3-1/2 seasons of middling middle relief before he was packaged with Pokey Reese to Colorado for not much.
Konerko had an OPS+ of 73 in 81 plate appearances in Cincinnati, then was traded straight-up for Mike Cameron. While Cameron (plus old friend Antonio Perez and current friend Brett Tomko) was flipped a season later for Ken Griffey Jr., Konerko developed into an above-average power hitter on the South Side. But not too much above average - check his OPS+, even when he was hitting 40 bombs a season.

203
Verde has gotten better than it used to be. I got deathly sick the last time we ate at Vin Rouge (back in February), and we haven't been back since. I'm not sure the food caused my sickness, but my mind connects the two.

My wife just told me to tell you that the food has gotten a lot better at Parizade too. She works in the building, so she eats there a lot...

204 No, Franklin P Adams.

ESPN says Javy Lopez to the Red Sox.

I guess they skipped over Luke 12:15...

"Thou shalt not pop up with men on base"?

210
Speaking of ridiculous contract years: check out Javy's 2003.

210 - Good pickup by the BoSox. They can afford him as insurance for Varitek.

Let's get some runs here, Astros.

210 trainwreck
>>ESPN says Javy Lopez to the Red Sox.<<

Oh well, I thought that since Toby Hall was so unhappy he might go there.

Dang. Padres win, 5-3.

Andru Jones is also on waivers. I know this is pretty common, just thought I'd mention it.

Actually they won 5-2.

Andruw Jones becomes a 5-and-10 guy on August 15.

Oh well, at least Arizona's losing the 2nd game now, it's 6-3 Cubbies.

217 Sure, we'll take him.

220 Has he played SS lately?

Game thread is open.

171 I wasn't suggested Epstein is a god. Part of why I disagree he's overrated is that I don't think any current GM is seen as flawless.

Some of the "mistakes" you point to are borne of scarcity. This is what I keep going back to, in terms of how Colletti gets judged too. Hendrickson was a terrible pitcher to pick up, just awful, ridiculous...until you look around and see how few other options there were. A lot of GM "mistakes" are simply filling gaps with the best available option, taking a chance that player X will turn out okay after player Y has proven to be incapable of filling that slot.

If Varitek had been allowed to leave to get that bad contract somewhere else, would you have had a higher opinion of Epstein if he'd signed Bengie Molina? Or if he'd traded for Paul LoDuca? Mike Piazza? The option of somehow corralling Joe Mauer (or Russell Martin) wasn't available.

Sometimes, even the smartest GM has to settle for the next best option, or even the least worst option. Around here, GMs who do that get called "stupid," and I think it's somewhat lacking in insight to view their decisions that way.

P.S. I don't think Cashman lacks for credit, although his payroll is tens of millions higher than the next-highest. That does affect how much credit he gets. Not too many teams can afford to say, "Oh well, our $13 million outfielder got hurt, let's replace him with another $13 million outfielder." Not even the Sox, generally.

P.S. I don't think Cashman lacks for credit, although his payroll is tens of millions higher than the next-highest. That does affect how much credit he gets. Not too many teams can afford to say, "Oh well, our $13 million outfielder got hurt, let's replace him with another $13 million outfielder." Not even the Sox, generally.

totally agree.

219-

All the more reason to get it done now.

545 Hits for Psycho. So, close.

Shoot. Wrong thread.