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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

A Near No-Hitter and the Illusion of Control
2006-08-04 09:40
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Here's how I jinxed Greg Maddux's no-hitter attempt: I turned the TV sound up.

I started following Thursday's rain-delayed game online with Gameday just before leaving a frustrating day of work, listened on the radio in the car, and then turned on the television at home, but with the sound down so that it didn't seem like I was ignoring my kids - which would have been a particularly feeble bit of behavior given that it was my sweet-faced, ebullient son's second birthday. Frankly, I can't believe my Pride and Joy No. 2 is 2, and I didn't want to throw that out the window.

The good thing is that I guessed right on his present - a $6 red Corvette and a set of five $2 Hot Wheels that he's a year too young for, but that won't be hard for me to keep an eye on since he doesn't seem to ever want to let go of them. There wasn't much more for him from us than the cars, about a thousand hugs and a birthday cupcake - we learned from his older sister that extravagance is wasted on anyone under the age of 3. Seemed like we had struck the right balance.

In fact, I needed it to be his birthday to rescue me from the ill temper I left work with. It was a healthy slap to remind me how the job isn't worth crying about. Then, as Maddux moved past the fourth and fifth innings without allowing a hit, I had something else to capture my imagination. With Andre Ethier having tripled and singled, I even began fantasizing about the outside chance of seeing a cycle and a no-hitter in the same contest.

That was okay. I was enjoying watching what I could see of the game in silence. But with two out in the sixth inning, I realized that I might want to write about it Thursday night and decided I should turn up the sound to hear what the commentators were saying. The final out of the sixth came on the next pitch - the last pitch Maddux would throw in the game. Within minutes, the rains had come, hastening his departure and the end of his no-hit bid.

I had looked ahead. I had started counting my chickens. I had only gotten to one chicken, but it was enough.

Some of you might think of me as a rational person, but I'm not. I'm someone who tries to make rational sense of the world a lot of the time, but at my core, I'm disturbingly irrational. Really, I'm a child disguised as a man. Sometimes I think I'd just as soon have not grown up. I want things to be the way I want them to be. While I know I don't affect the outcome of a game, I want to believe that I can.

As I sit here today, I will tell you I believe that a no-hitter happens when a certain group of people don't screw it up by jinxing it. And since we don't know exactly who's in that group, we should all play it safe. We don't say the words "no-hitter" while one is going on (except for the broadcasters, who have the right as part of their job); we don't make any assumptions at all. We just hold steady and hope.

But I was not vigilant.

* * *

Maddux, on the other hand, was very rational Thursday. He somewhat sadly validated my belief that you don't decide to leave in a starting pitcher for the late innings based on his credentials at the start of a game. You have to take into account that the trauma of the game can make him worse than your relievers. So rather than take that risk, Maddux told Dodger manager Grady Little to remove him.

"I've gone back out after a delay in the second or third inning, but never after six innings," Maddux told Steve Henson of the Times (among others). "I didn't want to be selfish."

I can't help wondering, if it had been Brad Penny who suggested not returning to pitch after six no-hit innings and a rain delay, whether some people wouldn't have called Penny selfish and gutless for wanting to preserve his individual stats while allowing the Dodger bullpen to risk taking the loss. Penny's attitude isn't an issue for me, but maybe I'm crazy.

In any case, I don't think selfishness was anything to worry about. Unless Maddux felt that he was at risk of injury - and in all the articles I read this morning, that did not come up - I don't think it would have been selfish for him to head out to the mound for the seventh, backed up in the bullpen. If and when he gave up a hit, Little would just take him out right then.

Where it would have been tricky, though, is if Maddux had walked someone. The 40-year-old looking for his first no-hitter since Little League had walked three before the rain delay, and maybe this was where he felt vulnerable. If he has trouble finding his rhythm after the delay and walks the leadoff guy in the seventh, well, okay. If he walks two, suddenly everyone's in trouble, and people would be wondering if the bid for history was worth it.

Unlike me, Maddux wasn't about to fool himself into thinking he had control - even though he's the one guy who arguably did.

Looking back, the unfortunate non-rain delay before the game (the equivalent of worrying about what might go wrong at the expense of appreciating what was going right) didn't help matters, but one could also call to task the Dodger offense for managing only two runs on seven hits and no walks off Reds journeyman Eric Milton, thus failing to give a cushion to Maddux (himself with a journeyman's ERA entering the game). It's very surprising that three runs was enough for the Dodgers to win Thursday.

In the end, it was a day worth celebrating. The Dodgers won their sixth in a row, Maddux made a scintillating debut, everybody's happy ... to the extent they allow their irrational selves to be.

* * *

Two more tidbits: First, Bill Plunkett of the Register solved the mystery of Dodger reliever Takashi Saito feeling unbalanced last week. You'll recall that Saito got blasted in a relief appearance, then was unavailable to pitch Saturday against Washington.

Dodgers reliever Takashi Saito revealed the secret to his success - his socks.

The Japanese right-hander said balance is "the most important thing" in his delivery. Maintaining that balance starts at the bottom.

"That's why I'm wearing five-finger socks," Saito said through his interpreter, giggling when he lifted his foot for verification. "I use them to grip the ground better."

Saito said many Japanese pitchers wear the socks that have separate tubes for each toe. He laughed when asked if he would try to persuade other Dodgers pitchers to wear them.

Using pantomime, Saito pointed at Jonathan Broxton and Mark Hendrickson and indicated they were large enough for staying grounded not to be a problem.

Emphasis mine.

Meanwhile, Allison Ann Otto of the Press-Enterprise found another Dodger trying to find the right equilibrium:

Reliever Giovanni Carrara hasn't pitched since July 28 because of food poisoning.

"I ate some bad Chinese food," Carrara said. "I'll never do that again."

Is it that easy? See, it's part of today's theme. It's all about craving control you don't really have.

* * *

Almost forgot ... Bob Timmermann of The Griddle passed along this in the comments:

Ted Turocy of Retrosheet believes that last night's 3-5-1 DP was just the second one in the last 50 seasons. Before that, no one knows very well.

Carlos Delgado (of Florida then) hit into one against Arizona last year on July 20.

Brandon Webb was the pitcher.

* * *

Dodger Thoughts reader ToyCannon, who organized our night at Dodger Stadium, passes along this appeal:

Platelets/Blood appeal for Sean Reader

Anyone who gives blood or platelets on a normal cycle and has time, a HUGE Dodger fan is fighting for his life and could use your help. The family would greatly appreciate anyone who is able to donate platelets to do so. They only have a shelf life of 5 days so when a child is losing his platelets he sometimes has to wait for platelets to come available I'm not exaggerating when I say it can be the difference between life and death. This boy has been fighting Leukemia for 18 months now.

Sean lost a lot of blood last week (the doctor said "I've never seen a living person with such a small amount of blood in them.")

These procedures need to be done at Children's Hospital (on Sunset, near Normandie). They are open Mon-Sat.

The phone number for the Childrens Hospital Blood Donor center is 323-669-2441.

* * *

Finally, I'm scheduled for another interview, this time on Baseball Beat with Charley Steiner (without Charley Steiner, but rather with substitute host Chuck Wilson) on XM Satellite Radio's MLB Home Plate, XM 175, at 11:05 a.m. Update: The interview got moved up to 10:30 a.m.

Comments (302)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-04 09:49:25
1.   Suffering Bruin
Man, I love morning reading almost as much as I love using the bold in my posts.

Thanks, Jon...

2006-08-04 09:52:38
2.   Suffering Bruin
Oh, and Jon? You're right. Maddux didn't get his no-hitter and it's all your fault. Happy birthday to the youngun'!
2006-08-04 09:58:38
3.   Suffering Bruin
Going for the triple...

Sean lost a lot of blood last week (the doctor said "I've never seen a living person with such a small amount of blood in them.")

That number again: 323-669-2441

2006-08-04 09:58:53
4.   Scanman33
Article on Colletti's "character" acquisitions:

http://tinyurl.com/qh8nj

2006-08-04 10:03:46
5.   FirstMohican
Re: 1st Rain Delay

I missed the game entirely (because I was conviniently only at a TV during the second rain delay, not before or after) and like many people wondering what would've happened had the first rain delay not happened. That extra time lost might've given Maddux time to complete a no-hitter, but also could've reduced his chances of even getting a no-hitter into the 6th.

I'm brainstorming here, but I would imagine that a pregame delay might be somewhat of a distraction for players trying to focus on the upcoming game. If there's one player out of both teams that wouldn't have trouble focusing in spite of the delay, I'd say Maddux. So I say it's a possibility that the initial rain delay actually helped him.

Re: "I will tell you I believe that a no-hitter happens when a certain group of people don't screw it up by jinxing it. And since we don't know exactly who's in that group..."

If I had to guess, I'd say Hatteberg and Encarnacion might be in that group.

2006-08-04 10:07:34
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - Do you know who the writer was?
2006-08-04 10:08:05
7.   Suffering Bruin
5 No! You've got it all wrong. It's not the guys who get the hits, it's the folks at home, watching the tube or the people in the park who blithely turn to their neighbors, slap their knees and say, "Dang me! That there Maddux is tossin' one of them no-hitters!"

These are the people that try men's souls, primeroMohican. These are the people that need to be stopped. Jon needs no excuses; he knows what he has done cannot be undone and we should leave it at that.

2006-08-04 10:08:11
8.   gpellamjr
5 The frustration is with the ineptitude of the decision not to start the game. We would never have had to deal with the disappointment of a no-hitter being taken away by anyone other than a Reds hitter.

Jon, nice use of "effect", interesting and effective.

2006-08-04 10:08:41
9.   Suffering Bruin
6 That was my question... I clicked a few links and couldn't figure it out.
2006-08-04 10:10:12
10.   Scanman33
6-Yeah, I know him somewhat.
2006-08-04 10:11:14
11.   Jon Weisman
8 - No, actually that was just a typo!
2006-08-04 10:11:30
12.   Scanman33
6-What a faux pas. I didn't even notice they didn't include my name.
2006-08-04 10:11:50
13.   Jon Weisman
10 - No, I mean, literally, what's his name? Is it a secret?
2006-08-04 10:12:18
14.   FirstMohican
8 - That's another way to look at it... it being the gift-horse that's getting looked in the mouth.

I think I'm missing the (non-rational) point about no-hitters. Maybe that's because the closest things to no-hitters that I've seen live are 2 Odalis no-no's though 5 (I believe), and Lowe's most recent 2-hit CG. Just can't feel the magic, haha.

2006-08-04 10:13:40
15.   Prescott Pete
4 - Interesting, a commentary without a byline.
2006-08-04 10:13:47
16.   Suffering Bruin
10 and 13 gets an LOL.

I think 10 is implying not too subtly that he knows the writer very well. Because (cue the ominous music) 10 is the writer of the said article.

Watson? This case is closed!

2006-08-04 10:16:00
17.   Scanman33
My name (the writer of the article) is John Scanlan. Usually the editor includes my name on there. The print edition has it. Not sure why the online version doesn't. I'll have to give him a ring and let him know.
2006-08-04 10:16:34
18.   Greg S
I think it's facinating.. Baseball, a game that more than any other is about statistics and followed (especially here) by those with an almost scientific mind for breaking apart and studying the numbers... is also the game with the most superstition. I personally, have spent my adult life systematically washing those kinds of thoughts from my mind. But unweaving the rainbow can be very upsetting to some and to others, makes life downright dull.
I think the world needs scientists AND poets. Jon, I think you like being the former but love being the latter.
2006-08-04 10:16:39
19.   Jon Weisman
https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/13458.html

... I've seen four no-hitters in person, including that Dennis Martinez perfect game in 1991, a game which was a double perfect game through five innings. In all, 15 of the 18 half-innings of that day were 1-2-3.

That was the weekend I had the luck of covering the Saturday Dodgers-Expos game for the Daily News, while others covered the nine-inning no-hitter by Mark Gardner Friday and Martinez on a Sunday. Still, I attended all three games. (Gardner lost his game in the 10th; I know MLB has since changed its rules to disavow its no-hitterness, but it was called a no-hitter when I saw it.)

A year before, I threw my sombrero to the sky in watching Fernando Valenzela twirl his no-hitter. And in 1994, I saw a most unlikely no-hit pitcher, Kent Mercker.

I had tickets to at least two other no-hitters, Ramon Martinez and Kevin Gross, but wasn't able to attend.

2006-08-04 10:18:23
20.   jasonungar05
4 Thats the article I write in my brain all the time or debate with other dodger fans all the time. Although I don't really include off field behavior in the team chemistry equasion.
2006-08-04 10:19:16
21.   Bluebleeder87
is there any way you can post it so we can hear it? I don't have XM Radio (you probably have to be a subscriber I bet)

ps great read.

2006-08-04 10:19:17
22.   Jon Weisman
17 - I agree with your line of thinking. The minute Colletti signed Furcal, a clean background check was no longer relevant. Rightly or wrongly, people who cared about it with DePodesta suddenly stopped caring.
2006-08-04 10:21:44
23.   Kayaker7
I've seen those five-toe socks in Japan. Most people that wore them said that they ward off athlete's foot.
2006-08-04 10:21:57
24.   Scanman33
22-Yeah, but it's funny the Depo haters I know still use the character issue as a line of reasoning for why he needed to go. I didn't even get into Toby Hall's pouting and Tomko's rep as a malcontent.
2006-08-04 10:22:21
25.   Bluebleeder87
A year before, I threw my sombrero to the sky in watching Fernando Valenzela twirl his no-hitter.

the thought of that alone is priceless.

2006-08-04 10:22:57
26.   BlueCrew Bruin
7 "primeroMohican" - Ha! I'm not sure why but that struck me as hilarious. From one Bruin to another, you are on fire today Suffering one. :)
2006-08-04 10:25:45
27.   Jon Weisman
The radio interview just got moved up to now.
2006-08-04 10:26:39
28.   al bundy
Thank you, Jon, for passing along Bob's research on the 3-5-1 dp, and thanks to Bob for the research and posting it. I watched on MLB tv and thus heard only the Reds' announcers. They didn't even confirm that it was Maddox who made the put out at 1st and it wasn't clearly visible on the tv screen. Was the play noted by whomever was in the booth for the Dodgers?
2006-08-04 10:27:09
29.   bhsportsguy
24 I do think that for whatever reason, sports teams (and most businesses for that manner) tend to view trangressions on the job much more seriously then off the field (or off the job) incidents.
2006-08-04 10:33:11
30.   popup
I have seen only one no-hitter. George Culver pitching for the Reds tossed one in a game I saw at Connie Mack Stadium in 1967 or thereabouts. The Phils actually scored a run against him. As I recall he gave up quite a few walks in the game.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-04 10:34:30
31.   Nagman
Jon, this is the kind of stuff I enjoy reading the most, when you tell us how the Dodgers affect your everyday life (admittedly when I open DT and I see columns with numbers, I skim... I'm still trying to understand VORP)..

The juggling act I do with the kids, Dodgers, Tivo, dinnertime, bathtime, reading DT... I'm glad I'm not alone.

2006-08-04 10:35:49
32.   Humma Kavula
Good interview. A little odd how it just ended, but good stuff.
2006-08-04 10:38:15
33.   Humma Kavula
Or... perhaps I wasn't listening to Jon, since I was on the wrong channel.

I also couldn't figure out why Jon was saying that "The Dodgers hope they can get something close to what they need out of J. D. Drew."

2006-08-04 10:39:32
34.   Bob Timmermann
28

It was Ted Turocy who did the research. I just passed along the info.

I'm still trying to get confirmation that the DP was also Maddux's 84th which would be a major league record for a pitcher.

2006-08-04 10:41:10
35.   Jon Weisman
I just finished the interview now.
2006-08-04 10:41:36
36.   Bob Timmermann
30
Stan,
Culver's no-hitter was in 1968 in the second game of a doublheader.

He only walked five, but the Phillies got a run thanks to an error.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B07292PHI1968.htm

2006-08-04 10:42:06
37.   Humma Kavula
Too bad for me that I was listening to somebody else for the first several minutes...

...what I heard of your interview was good, too.

2006-08-04 10:42:19
38.   bhsportsguy
34 Bob, according to BaseballReference.com and ESPN.com, the sources for Maddux's career through 2005 and current season, respectively, I count up 84 double plays.
2006-08-04 10:43:44
39.   bhsportsguy
35 Couldn't hear it, my office doesn't receive my XM too well, what was the general tone, was it about the Dodgers or about the blogging community?
2006-08-04 10:46:10
40.   Marty
I've lived almost all of my 50 years in the San Gabriel Valley and I've never heard of the Mid Valley News. What city is it out of?
2006-08-04 10:46:58
41.   Marty
Ah, I see the office is in El Monte.
2006-08-04 10:49:21
42.   Jon Weisman
39 - 10 percent about me, 10 percent about Dodger Thoughts, 80 percent about the Dodgers.

Look: numbers!

2006-08-04 10:55:58
43.   Marty
What is involved in giving platelets? Is it any different than the normal blood donoring thing?
2006-08-04 10:57:32
44.   Bob Timmermann
43
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11892.cfm
2006-08-04 11:01:04
45.   popup
Thanks Bob. I remember the no-hitter but I did not remember it being part of a doubleheader. Must have been a twi-light dh because I remember the no hitter being a night game.

George Culver went on to pitch very briefly for the Dodgers.

Still wish that Sandy had waited to pitch his no-hitter against the Phils in 1964 after the school year was over. I did not miss many Dodger/Phillies games during those years except when the Dodgers played in Philadelphia on a weeknight during the school year.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-04 11:05:52
46.   blue22
19 - I saw the Denny Martinez perfecto in person as well. I believe the last 3-4 innings to be the only time in my life I've rooted against the Blue.

Chris Gwynn's flyout to the warning track to end the game is a very vivid memory of mine.

2006-08-04 11:06:12
47.   bhsportsguy
42 How much of that 10% on DT was centered on the neverending debate of Pro DePo/Anti DePo and its subsequent discussions?
2006-08-04 11:07:01
48.   Greg S
42. Yes, but so elegantly put together!
2006-08-04 11:09:27
49.   Greg S
46 I was at the Dennis Martinez game as well. Must have been future DTers day.
2006-08-04 11:09:50
50.   Jon Weisman
47 - Zero. I was boosterish.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-04 11:10:20
51.   Sam DC
So, the Nationals game wednesday ended with the Nats clawing back to 8-6, getting a runner on, and bringing a PH to the plate v. recent National Mike Stanton. Stanton struke him out looking on a backdoor curve that was widely viewed by Nationals' fans as nowhere near the strike zone. (I haven't seen the pitch.)

Anyhow, Ball Wonk's game story consists of a single picture.

But it's a funny picture. http://www.ball-wonk.com/

2006-08-04 11:12:02
52.   Steve
If Rob Drake was drowning and being eaten by a shark, I would save the shark.
2006-08-04 11:13:13
53.   Steve
By the way, Rob Drake is the AAA vacation umpire and 17-year Walmart veteran who threw out Brad Penny for no reason last year.
2006-08-04 11:13:14
54.   popup
43, I was a platlet donor for a short time. A platlet donor can donate every few weeks while a blood donor has to wait 56 days between donations. The process of donating the platlets takes quite a bit longer than a regular blood donation. I stopped platlet donations because my veins are not good enough for the more frequent donations. I still donate blood and would be a platlet donor if my veins were good enough. I don't know the actual difference between platlets and blood, but I gather the platlets are more valuable, especially for cancer victims.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-04 11:16:07
55.   Andrew Shimmin
43- Yes. It takes significantly longer than just blood. They separate the platelets from other blood components, and return the non-platelets to your vein, in cycles. It used to take me an hour and a quarter, but some people (for reasons I don't understand) take marginally longer, or shorter. Most collection centers are set up so the donor can watch a movie. It doesn't hurt more than donating blood (which is to say, it hardly hurts at all).
2006-08-04 11:19:05
56.   Blu2
43 Marty, The Med people take out a pint of your blood and run it through a centrifuge, That separates the solids (salts?, blood cells?)whatever from the more liquid component of your blood. The liquid part (plasma?) is injected back into your veins.
2006-08-04 11:20:13
57.   underdog
I'm with Gio, I'm never getting food poisoning again. What was I thinking!?

I totally understand the jinx stuff - when I wa s a kid I used to get to the point where I would remove my hat in disgust if the (Dodgers/Broncos/Lakers) were losing and then if they started doing better I'd keep my hat off. It was the hat, I tells ya! Or wearing a certain shirt, or not wearing it, or...That sort of thing.

I still do this sort of thing, actually. I still blame my dad for that one loss to the Giants in SF a couple months ago, when he left before the 9th inning, saying something like "Looks good!" leaving me there to suffer through a Baez-implosion. [tm]

I think we jinxed the you-know-what by talking about the weather too much, actually.

2006-08-04 11:23:03
58.   Blu2
Can you imagine Nomar with his trunk load of superstitions as a basketball player? LOL
2006-08-04 11:26:24
59.   D4P
I'm sure no one around here really takes the "jink" things seriously, but just in case you needed a dose of reason, do you really think there has ever been a no-hitter or perfect game where not a single person in the entire world uttered the phrase "such and such is pitching a no-hitter/perfect game" prior to completion of said no-hitter/perfect game?

Carry on.

2006-08-04 11:27:56
60.   Bob Timmermann
59

I hope there are no lightning strikes near you today...

2006-08-04 11:28:51
61.   D4P
59
Uh, "'jink' things" should read "'jinx' thing"
2006-08-04 11:29:39
62.   D4P
60
Thanks Bob. 40% chance of thunderstorms here this afternoon...
2006-08-04 11:30:14
63.   Jon Weisman
Does In-N-Out Burger have a reputation on the East Coast, or is it only something you hear of when you live or visit here?
2006-08-04 11:31:44
64.   bhsportsguy
Okay folks, I want to organize another DT night/day at the stadium and of course would like to get as many participants as possible but I think it would be fun as we head down the stretch.

What does everyone think?

2006-08-04 11:33:15
65.   popup
Jon, just curious, did Steiner contact you about appearing on his show? Too bad Vin does not have a an XM show.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-04 11:33:23
66.   bhsportsguy
63 I only hear on national sports talk shows by guys who used to live out here, frankly I did not really know about them until they opened up some outlets in the LA area.
2006-08-04 11:34:10
67.   regfairfield
63 From what I've seen, it's notorious on the East Coast to the degree that White Castle is down here.

Personally, I've never understood the In-N-Out hype. Sure it's better than McDonalds or Burger King, but that's about it.

2006-08-04 11:34:12
68.   D4P
63
Having grown up in Oregon, and lived in North Carolina for the past 3 years, the only time I have ever seen (or eaten at) an In-N-Out burger was last July near UCLA, after a visit to Dodger Stadium and watching Mike Edwards hit his first career HR.

On a related note: "Carls Jr." is known as "Hardees" on the East Coast.

2006-08-04 11:34:53
69.   bhsportsguy
65 One of my disappointments will be the fact that Vin will never do a book regarding his experiences in baseball, though maybe I should never say never but as far as I know, there is nothing in the works.

He also rarely does interviews.

2006-08-04 11:34:53
70.   Bob Timmermann
And some of us who live in Southern California rarely go to In-N-Out Burger.

Mainly because I'm incredibly impatient.

2006-08-04 11:35:19
71.   Andrew Shimmin
59- "As I sit here today, I will tell you I believe that a no-hitter happens when a certain group of people don't screw it up by jinxing it. And since we don't know exactly who's in that group, we should all play it safe."

You can't refute that very particular superstition, by saying that somebody somewhere always does jinx it; only if you can prove that somebody from the only group (which nobody can know whether anybody is a part of) that matters jinxed it, without it failing.

2006-08-04 11:35:40
72.   Sam DC
When I came East for college in 1986, no one but no one back here had heard of In 'n Out. Now it's commonly known as an Out West/LA thing, like White Castle is commonly known as an East Coast thing.
2006-08-04 11:35:46
73.   Jon Weisman
59 - As I wrote above:

"A no-hitter happens when a certain group of people don't screw it up by jinxing it. And since we don't know exactly who's in that group, we should all play it safe."

2006-08-04 11:35:47
74.   Penarol1916
63. They are strictly West Coast, in fact, I had kind of forgotten about it's existence after moving away until I started frequenting Dodger chat boards.
2006-08-04 11:36:52
75.   Howard Fox
63 only found in CA, NV and AZ
2006-08-04 11:38:33
76.   Andrew Shimmin
Also, did anybody notice that Mark Langill at Inside the Dodgers jinxed it during the rain delay? Those guys will stop at nothing to get the upper hand during arbitration hearings.
2006-08-04 11:38:38
77.   bhsportsguy
I was looking at the September 16th game against the Padres, its also the salute to the 1981 World Series Championship team. I went to last year's salute to the 1955 team, my favorite moment was when Vin was introducing the players who were at the game and when he got to Sandy, he just said something like, I don't need to tell you about this man, Sandy Koufax, and let me tell you, the ovation he got almost brought me to tears, plus the fact that game featured Clemens vs. Penny and as I recall the Dodgers won the game on an Antonio Perez home run.
2006-08-04 11:38:46
78.   popup
#62, better not go outside. #63, Jon, I have heard of them living here in Washington State. Of course, this area has plenty of ex- Californians.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-04 11:38:57
79.   D4P
71,73

Who's to say?

2006-08-04 11:39:22
80.   Jon Weisman
71 - And it's Andrew, by 27 seconds.

72 - I asked because I just read George Will making a reference to it.

67 - It's worthy of the hype that it gets, which is not by any means out of control.

65 - Steiner's producer contacted me, though Steiner wasn't the interviewer today. However, I did meet Steiner on Opening Day and he said he read DT. I was actually planning to call him today to get his thoughts about broadcasting yesterday's game, but work may not permit me to do so - I've already blown some time doing the radio interview.

2006-08-04 11:40:07
81.   still bevens
68 Does Hardees have the same menu as Carl's Jr.? I think they used to run their own show and eventually got bought out by Carl's. I went to one in DC about 7 years ago or so and they had a variety of foul foods you could pick up, but it definitely wasnt the same as Carl's.
2006-08-04 11:40:16
82.   Paul Scott
I routinely talk about no-hitters. If it is against the rules on your board and I am watching one, I'll remeber not to do it - but, even if I am not doing it here I'll be talking/writing about it somewhere, so you are not saving yourself anything. The superstitious will have to hope I am never part of Jon's unknown "group that matters" on such things. :)
2006-08-04 11:42:42
83.   regfairfield
81 No, they seem to have even more amazingly fattening items, including the much hyped Monster Thickburger. 2/3rds of a pound of meat, cheese, bacon, a hearty dollop of mayo, and a buttered bun.
2006-08-04 11:42:50
84.   Sam DC
Interesting article on Hiroshima's struggles with whether and especially where to build a new baseball stadium.

http://tinyurl.com/lnz5q

The Washington Post -- A Good Newspaper.

2006-08-04 11:44:28
85.   D4P
81
I don't actually know, as (1) I've never been to Hardees, and (2) I rarely went to Carl's Jr. I just know the restaurants look the same and have that "star."
2006-08-04 11:44:42
86.   Greg S
Quick In-N-Out note... they used to purchase one national 30 second commercial durring the Super Bowl despite only having outlets in California at the time. They did this because the owner was a huge NFL fan. I can think of better ways to express my love of a sport but, well, that was his.
2006-08-04 11:44:49
87.   Sam DC
No ma, just ain't the same without the butter on the bun. Sort of scratchy, plain. Bleh.
2006-08-04 11:44:49
88.   SVbeagador
I think I jinxed Greg Maddux's no-hitter attempt. I never try to follow the games at work pitch by pitch from work, but with the no-hitter going, I had to and the rain delay. If only I would have continued working . . .
2006-08-04 11:45:33
89.   Penarol1916
81. They have always been owned by the same Southeast based operation, but their menus were somewhat different, the parent company has been more strict about trying to get the restaurants more uniform in menus and they are now all required to buy their menu items from one supplier based out of Mansfield, TX who also does most of the meat supply for Denny's and the meatballs for Quizno's subs.
2006-08-04 11:46:11
90.   Jon Weisman
82 - I guess that's all I can ask :)
2006-08-04 11:46:23
91.   Howard Fox
86 and where is the owner now??
2006-08-04 11:46:30
92.   Monterey Chris
Even though there is an exception for announcers, Krukow and Kuiper will not discuss a no-hitter or perfect game in progress when they are the announcers at that game. They will point out that one is in progress at another stadium.
2006-08-04 11:46:47
93.   SVbeagador
Jon Weisman

Great stuff you have here. Been reading it for what seems forever.

2006-08-04 11:47:36
94.   Marty
I've never understood the attraction of In N Out. There's so many places around town that are miles above it. I agree with Reg that it is better than McDonalds, but what isn't?
2006-08-04 11:49:21
95.   Underbruin
One of the things I've noticed is that college-aged kids on the east coast seem to know much more about it than the older crowd might (though it has somewhat infiltrated the national consciousness, not the least thorugh the help of the movie The Big Lebowski).

Significant numbers of CA ex-stats (well, whatever the state version of an ex-pat is) pine for them daily, regaling their peers of tales of the tasty Double-Double and others. But it is viewed very much as a West Coast phenomenon, as others have said.

On another note, did anybody else notice Hatteberg's line from last night? 1-1, with 3 BBs - out of the 3 walks Maddux allowed, 2 of them were to Hatty, and he picked up another in the bottom of the 9th. He's having one heck of a career year at age 36 (he's OPSed just over .800 twice in the past, he's over .920 on the season this year).

2006-08-04 11:49:54
96.   blue22
94 - In N Out is really good (certainly the best relatively widespread chain), and they've improved the service time dramatically in the last 10 years.

It's now possible to get through a full drive-through line in less than 15 minutes.

2006-08-04 11:50:38
97.   Marty
One of the owners of In n Out died in a plane crash. He was about 350 pounds, as is his brother. Which sort of makes sense considering the business.
2006-08-04 11:51:04
98.   Jon Weisman
93 - Thanks!

94 - Can you have too many good burger places? And do you always have to have the best burger? Or can you enjoy eating many different kinds of good burgers? They don't have to all be Koufax burgers.

In-N-Out is good. I don't see a debate here.

Of course, then I learned I had high cholesterol two years ago ...

2006-08-04 11:51:49
99.   Jon Weisman
97 - And now, as you know (since I would always read about it in the Times), there's a big battle for control of the company.
2006-08-04 11:53:13
100.   Underbruin
94 - I guess the attraction is that it's a chain that seems to manage to produce a fairly reasonable level of quality at a moderate (depending on which In'N'Out you go to) price.

Though there are tons of places to go that serve better food, I'm not sure how many of them would classify as fast food chains.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-04 11:53:17
101.   blue22
In n Out vs. Hamburger Habit.

Choose your side.

2006-08-04 11:54:12
102.   Greg S
91. Yeah, that guy died. He and his wife ran it and she is now about 90 years old and in poor health. The kids and step kids are now emroiled in a power struggle that seems worth of it's own Fox primetime soap opera.
2006-08-04 11:54:21
103.   Underbruin
101 - I choose the Apple Pan.
2006-08-04 11:54:33
104.   Marty
98 I guess I mean that I don't think they are that good, so I would rather go to the others. You don't have to have the best all the time, but why would you settle for an inferior (admittedly, just my opinion) one when it's just as easy to get a better one?
2006-08-04 11:55:53
105.   Greg S
Oh, Jon said that. Must be lunch time given the talk here.
2006-08-04 11:56:02
106.   mikethinksblue
I like In N Out, but don't go that often. Less often, in fact, after I read this:

http://tinyurl.com/ehmrd

2006-08-04 11:57:04
107.   blue22
106 - Some things are better left un-posted.
2006-08-04 11:58:17
108.   Penarol1916
96. I see it as about as good as Culver's a burger chain out of Wisconsin, which makes better custard than burgers. Personally, I just think that when people go off somewhere, especially kids going to college, they get extremely defensive about the things that make where they come from distinct and certain things, like In N Out Burgers, Chicago and New York style pizza, New York delis, and so on get blown out of proportion in terms of how good they are. The only exception I've ever seen is BBQ, which is as big a deal as people from the hotspots make it seem.
2006-08-04 11:59:56
109.   Kayaker7
I seem to recall, when I was going to school back East, that Hardees bought up a fast food chain called, "Roy Rogers." So, the menu started to incorporate fried chicken, in addition to the burgers. I liked the fixin's bar, where you dress up the burger which is served on a naked bun. You can add as much lettuce and tomatoes as you want, and the horshradish sauce was good.
2006-08-04 12:02:28
110.   Bluebleeder87
I gotta check my cholesterol, I've never checked it, I kind of like to think I stay away from fatting food but you never know.
2006-08-04 12:04:50
111.   Marty
109 Cassel's in Koreatown is like that. They cook the burger to order and you make up the bun. They also have this horseradish-laced potato salad that is great. That is one of my favorite burger places. Especially since I can get there from my work by taking the red line.
2006-08-04 12:05:41
112.   Sam DC
In n Out and Five Guys here in the MidAtlantic are a lot alike. And Five Guys is worshipped. (Better fries than InO.)

This past year a Five Guys opened about 10 blocks from house, across from the new baseball stadium site.

2006-08-04 12:05:43
113.   Penarol1916
109. I was going to school out east when Hardee's gave up on Roy Rogers and sold the remaining open restaurants to McDonald's. When I left, the last Roy Rogers I knew of was in the Baltimore Airport.
2006-08-04 12:06:07
114.   Jon Weisman
I'll put this in a main post later, but happy to report that Dodger Math (aka Regfairfield when he comments here) has moved over to the True Blue L.A. blog at SBNation:

http://www.truebluela.com/

2006-08-04 12:07:48
115.   thinkingblue
not to change the subject of burgers, but how is it that we couldn't win one game against the cardnials, when their pitching staff is constantly exposed as being borderline bad against all other teams, and looks like 5 cy youngs against us?

And now, we're scoring better, on pitchers with similar stats to the weaver's, suppans, and marquis, do the cardnials know something about us that we don't even know?

2006-08-04 12:15:45
116.   bhsportsguy
115 You had a perfect storm, Nomar was in his first slump, Kent was hurting, the Dodgers can't pitch to Pujols. But I still think had we figured out a way to win that first game when they had the 2-0 lead and then had a chance in the 10th inning, we would have probably split that series and who knows what would have happened, but after losing that first game on the Pujols home run off Odalis, thinks went downhill from there.

On their pitching, as I mentioned before, we are a much better fastball hitting team than breaking balls, and when they started losing, they started pressing and not taking pitches.

But I don't think there any real secrets, just bad match ups.

2006-08-04 12:21:23
117.   Terry A
I had mine checked a few weeks back. I fully expected it to be near 200, but it was 128, which I was told was a pretty good score.

My diet stunk at that time, and the anxiety over what I thought would be a high score prompted me to make some positive changes.

2006-08-04 12:25:17
118.   Terry A
And by positive changes, I mean no more glass of hot fat each morning.
2006-08-04 12:25:23
119.   thinkingblue
just bad match ups

No, I really think we aren't actually a vastly infierior team to the cardnials at all. I think we can beat that team. But some how, we consistatly can't beat Jeff Suppan, and Jason Marquis. How is that even possible? Case in point, Marquis gives up like 10 to the braves. He gives up a combined 2 runs against us in 15 innings. I just don't know how that happens. And it's not like Pujols had 5 RBI every game, we let guys like Chris Duncan, Yadier Molina, and Juan Encarnacion beat us.

I really don't think the cardnials are a great team at all. They just got lucky against us. Really.

2006-08-04 12:27:36
120.   underdog
80 Hi Charlie! (Just in case you're reading this - don't tell Rick Monday any of the critical things I've said about him, I'm sure he's a wonderful guy.)

Man, I wish the game tomorrow was on TV outside LA, I'd love to see how Chad does in Florida.

2006-08-04 12:27:50
121.   bhsportsguy
The past week tell us that despite all analysis, small sample size, VORP or scouting, there is simply no way to predict what a small change can make to the fortunes of a ball club.

Now, could the Dodgers go back into the tank, sure but they could just as easily start a solid streak of good play.

I sometimes think that I play it too safe, never willing to go over to one side (stats analysis) to the other (scouting/baseball people). Maybe its because I think you need a little from column A and column B, but it does make navigating these waters a little dangerous.

So here we are, a few days before they return home and I am already thinking about buying tickets and going to a few games during the next homestand and frankly, that is why I love the game, I love the history, I love the analysis and I love being a fan. I like looking at the progress of the kids, I like checking a batter/pitcher matchup before they face, I even like debating those on this site who may have a contrary opinion to my own.

Here's to another good baseball weekend, thanks Jon for the site and now its time for double/double.

2006-08-04 12:30:12
122.   Bluebleeder87
117 I'm pretty sure mine is good, I just wanna check it.
2006-08-04 12:30:31
123.   Robert Daeley
Interesting related information:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?playerId=1800&teamId=24

Greg Maddux versus the Cards.

2006-08-04 12:31:06
124.   bhsportsguy
119 The Braves had the Jones boys that you have to pitch differently than the Dodgers middle of the lineup. (A Stevian point, homers do matter). If you throw soft stuff, you are just more likely to give up home runs as a byproduct of good control but against this year's Dodger team, that threat is just not there, especially when Kent is not in lineup.

But it is not that guys like Suppan did not do well against us in years when we hit more home runs.

2006-08-04 12:32:16
125.   bhsportsguy
117 Oatmeal, its seems pretty simple but just eating more of that and avoiding McDonalds does a lot for the old c-count.
2006-08-04 12:34:58
126.   Kayaker7
112 I went to GW from 89-93, and don't recall "Five Guys." Is it new?
2006-08-04 12:36:14
127.   Steve
I like you Charley. If I didn't, you'd know by now.

D4P, on the other hand, look out for that guy in dark alleys.

2006-08-04 12:37:31
128.   thinkingblue
124.

Well, didn't Suppan get hit by the cubs?

2006-08-04 12:38:29
129.   Jon Weisman
122 - Family history plays a big part.

125 - Yes, that was my experience too. I lowered my bad by nearly 100.

2006-08-04 12:39:25
130.   Bluebleeder87
I heard shrimp has cholesterol (that's weird to me)
2006-08-04 12:40:44
131.   Bluebleeder87
my dad was a stud in that department, I'm not sure about my mom (gonna have to ask her)
2006-08-04 12:40:56
132.   Penarol1916
126. It must be, I went to school in DC from 96-00 and never heard of it either.
2006-08-04 12:41:25
133.   D4P
I like you Charley. If I didn't, you'd know by now. D4P, on the other hand, look out for that guy in dark alleys.

I guess I feel bad now that Charlie reads DT, but some things just need to be said. I'm sure he's crying all the way to the bank...

2006-08-04 12:43:05
134.   Jon Weisman
130 - All shellfish is bad.

133 - I'm sure he's heard worse. I wouldn't sweat it.

2006-08-04 12:43:27
135.   Daniel Zappala
In-N-Out is fantastic. In 2004 they committed to building in Washington, Utah (just outside of St. George), but nothing has happened yet as far as I know. Many people inquired about them coming up closer to Salt Lake, but the problem is that they ship everything fresh from the LA area and we are too far away. They are big on quality control.

I have very good cholesterol since my mom forced me to brown-bag every day and I can't shake the habit.

2006-08-04 12:45:57
136.   bhsportsguy
Yesterday, one team was awarded a claim on Andruw Jones. Now the Braves have two choices -- either work out a trade with the team who placed the claim by Saturday or pull Jones back from waivers. If they pull him back, they cannot trade him again for the rest of this season.

The reason why the Braves might look into this is because Jones becomes a 10/5 player on August 15th (10 years in the league, 5 with the same team) and thus gets veto power over any trade and that is a contracual right in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

http://tinyurl.com/e5532

2006-08-04 12:46:36
137.   thinkingblue
Charlie, if you're reading this, good work, but please tell Steve Lyons to put away that TV marker, we can see what's going on during the game. Also, tell Lyons to pay attention to the radar gun, and hopefully he'll see that Saito is NOT a soft tosser, and DOES NOT "basically pitch at 88-90," he pitches at 90-94 always.
2006-08-04 12:46:52
138.   Sam DC
Five Guys isn't new, but it used to just be a few places and now has expanded quite a bit regionally.
2006-08-04 12:51:50
139.   bhsportsguy
Just some more wood for that fire on whether or not Maddux influences a clubhouse.

http://tinyurl.com/fp52e

2006-08-04 12:52:48
140.   Linkmeister
Despite my 18 months of back-and-forth between Hawai'i and LA in the mid-1980s, I missed In-N-Out somehow. I did get to the Apple Pan once. There are a couple of Carl's Jr. places out here. There was a Hardee's next to the UofA campus when I went to school there in the late 1960s-early 1970s.

But! Thanks to Sacramento relatives, I have t-shirts from both In-N-Out and Tommy's!

2006-08-04 12:53:15
141.   underdog
Wonder who the Orioles will get for Javy Lopez. I've heard good things about this Player TB Named fellow.
2006-08-04 13:00:02
142.   Kayaker7
130 People confuse dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol, which is not really cholesterol. Blood cholesterol is actually a lipoprotein, a fatty acid attached to a protein particle. Not that that is all that important to the layman.

Bottomline: dietary cholesterol is not strongly linked to blood cholesterol levels. If you eat more cholesterol, your liver makes less. If you eat less cholesterol, your liver make more. Saturated fat intake has a much stronger influence on blood cholesterl levels. If you don't have a genetic predisposition to high cholesterol, I wouldn't worry about dietary sources of cholesterol. Eat all the shrimp you want. Just avoid the melted butter dip, and the deep fried stuff.

2006-08-04 13:00:10
143.   Uncle Miltie
I go to In-N-Out maybe 3-4 times a year. I don't eat fast food (besides In-N-Out), don't drink soda, don't eat candy, and don't smoke. I do however enjoy consuming large quantities of alcohol in short periods of time.
2006-08-04 13:01:27
144.   Bluebleeder87
135--I have very good cholesterol since my mom forced me to brown-bag every day and I can't shake the habit.

I love fruits & vegetables & hate fried chicken so those are good habits my mom gave me.

2006-08-04 13:01:34
145.   Disabled List
In terms of reputation and regional loyalty:

In-N-Out : West Coast :: White Castle : East Coast

In terms of actual product however, the two can't be compared. White Castle burgers are disgusting. And as much as I love In-N-Out, I'll take Tommy's any day of the week.

Another West Coast-only fast food joint I miss living on the East Coast is Del Taco.

2006-08-04 13:02:07
146.   capdodger
Funny In-n-Out story:

Way back when I was in middle school, my small, Visalia, Episcopal school obtained a massive (pallets) quantity of In-n-Out water and soda cups for pennies. They held liquid rather well, and so they were used for hot lunches, at sporting events, and other places where disposable cups. It seems that the Snyders had rejected the cups because they lacked the requisite bible-verse reference on the bottom.

In-n-Out is also the first, and sometimes last, place I usually visit when I visit family in CA.

I've not tried five guys yet but since Sam says there's one just off of my commuting drive, I might stop in for a pickup to go.

2006-08-04 13:02:47
147.   Uncle Miltie
139-
"We've been sharing locker space for three years,'' he said. ''It's kind of weird not having him there to talk about golf or talk about pitching, farting on each other, whatever it is."
The key to good Clubhouse Chemistry™
2006-08-04 13:02:54
148.   Mr Customer
143. I do however enjoy consuming large quantities of alcohol in short periods of time.

Well, everybody needs a hobby...

2006-08-04 13:03:00
149.   capdodger
Oh... I also really miss El Pollo Loco.
2006-08-04 13:03:17
150.   Uncle Miltie
147- that was a quote from Ryan Dempster
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-04 13:04:59
151.   bhsportsguy
145 I liked Naugles much better than Del Taco (I find their spokes guy a little annoying)
2006-08-04 13:05:27
152.   Bluebleeder87
142

thanks for the info

2006-08-04 13:07:56
153.   Disabled List
151 I've never even heard of Naugles.

I saw Dan the Del Taco guy at a Japanese restaurant in Sherman Oaks last week.

2006-08-04 13:09:28
154.   bhsportsguy
153 I believe Del Taco bought out Naugles some time ago.
2006-08-04 13:12:44
155.   Bob Timmermann
My brief defense of Brad Penny keeping his number 31 for the short term.

1. Of players on the 25-man roster now, Penny has the longest continuous service with the Dodgers except for Olmedo Saenz. (Carrara and Dessens leaving and coming back)

2. Number of World Series rings owned by Penny and Maddux: 1 each

3. Penny was the NL All-Star game starter this season.

It's really a small matter, but I don't see why Penny has to fall on his back to Maddux as if he were a puppy encountering the alpha dog in the pack.

2006-08-04 13:14:10
156.   Jeromy
88 and Jon,

I think I may also be apart of the group that jinxed it last night. I was watching the game with my kids and after Maddux's last out, I decided to take a short break to put them in the tub. I turned on the water, walked back out into the living room to glance at the t.v. and sure enough, it had begun to rain.

2006-08-04 13:14:24
157.   Bluebleeder87
143 I do however enjoy consuming large quantities of alcohol in short periods of time.

I echo you're thoughts :o)

2006-08-04 13:15:41
158.   Bluebleeder87
147 147- that was a quote from Ryan Dempster

I just became a Ryan Dempster fan.

2006-08-04 13:16:10
159.   bluetahoe
Baseball sure is a humbling game. We've risen from the dead. Hopefully the pieces are falling into place. I'm trying to stay on an even keel though. Don't want to get too excited only to be letdown. But I'm looking forward to a sweep in Florida. I'm wondering if we should play 2 Saturday because I think a storms a brewin down yonder.
2006-08-04 13:16:46
160.   underdog
Remember when it was funny to cut up an In-n-Out Burger bumper sticker and have it on your car as "In-n-Out Urge" ? When I was 12 and in Santa Barbara that was funny. Now I'm not so sure.
2006-08-04 13:17:04
161.   bluetahoe
155. Russ Martin needs to give Giovanni Carrara his number back. LOL.
2006-08-04 13:17:36
162.   Johnson
154 To my best recollection, the Del Taco buyout of Naugles was 20+ years ago.

If Charlie Steiner really reads DT, I wonder if we had anything to do with last night's broadcast, where I distinctly heard him talk about Edwin En-Car-Na-Ci-On. Good on ya, Charlie!

2006-08-04 13:18:22
163.   D4P
155
I agree. Who cares about the number anyway? If you arrive at a new team, you shouldn't expect any of the existing players to forfeit their number on your behalf.

You're getting paid millions of dollars to sit on a bench most of the time: wear whatever number they tell you to.

2006-08-04 13:19:19
164.   Robert Daeley
155 According to what I read, for Penny it's a matter of trying to work out deals with other players for their numbers at the moment. The ongoing saga:

http://www.celsius1414.com/node/770

2006-08-04 13:21:09
165.   al bundy
I have much experience with 5 Guys, In-n-Out and many other burger places because I have lived on the east and west coasts and am a fast food burger lover. I just spent a couple weeks in No Cal and hit InO 3 or 4 times. They are amazingly consistent and just awesome. The quality is great and they toast the underside of the buns as perfectly as possible. The reputation of InO reached further into the east coast when they opened the Las Vegas outlet, although that location became too popular for its own good, IMO.

My former gf, now my wife, lived down the street from the original 5 Guys on King Street, Arlington. I always loved it but from a consistency stand point, they needed some help at the time. The fries are the best part, but IMO that's not necessarily a great attribute of a burger place.

For me, a burger is best from a fast food place. I grew up going to the Woodland Hills H. Hamlet with my dad, but it just doesn't feel right to be eating a burger in a sit down restaurant with waiter/waitress service.

I drove past Kirk's in Campbell last week and remembered the conversation on Jon's site from last year. Jon is/was a big Kirk's fan. So I stopped in, in Jon's honor. The burger was excellent but was disappointing because the meat patty wasn't large enough for the bun (I special ordered it on a french roll). Otherwise, very tasty. But expensive for a fast food burger.

Most people prefer a flame cooked burger but I like it cooked on a flat grill - nice and messy. Also, it seems to me that if you compare InO to McD's or White Castle or Hardees/Carl's, you're probably not a huge fan of fast food burgers because they are nowhere near the same quality or freshness level.

I am living in Bratislava, Slovakia for a couple of years and most of the time can only dream of a great burger. Sigh...the things you take for granted...

2006-08-04 13:21:53
166.   Terry A
159 - "...I think a storms a brewin down yonder."

Apt word picture, given all the discussion of various fast-food burgers.

2006-08-04 13:22:54
167.   Xeifrank
Carrarra had some bad chinese food? That's ironic because the other day I had some bad mexican food that left me filling ill. Is he planning on staying away from chinese food in general or just the "bad" chinese food? Perhaps Plaschke could look into the details on this one. Speaking of Plaschke he is in his glory with the Maddux gem pitched last night. The only thing that would arouse him any more than he already is, is if the Dodgers had traded for LoDuca. That 3-5-1 double play reminded me of one I turned in softball this past tuesday. It went 6-1-3. Wonder how many times retrosheet says that's been done before.
vr, Xei
2006-08-04 13:24:17
168.   Humma Kavula
6-1-3? Describe that play!
2006-08-04 13:24:53
169.   Xeifrank
If the Dodgers are going to strip the names off the back of the uniforms, the mind as well strip the numbers off too. Heck, just get rid of the shirts altogether and we can recognize the players by their tattoos(sp?).
vr, Xei
2006-08-04 13:26:40
170.   still bevens
165 You're probably right, maybe 2-3 years less. I definitely remember the merger and the rediculous ad campaign (Viva! Naulges, Viva! Del Taco) when I was in elementary school and Im 27 now.
2006-08-04 13:27:28
171.   Xeifrank
168. I'm playing SS. Batter pops the ball up to me. I notice that the batter isn't running the ball out, so I drop the ball on purpose. The 2B was caught off guard and wasn't covering secon base, the pitcher had backed up a bit in case he had to catch the pop up. He saw me drop the ball (on purpose) and it happened to roll away from me a little bit. The pitcher ran to cover second base, we forced the runner (who was on first) out, he threw to first base and got the hitter (who ran late) out by a step. If you play slowpitch softball long enough beleive me you will see it all and most of it's not pretty! :) vr, Xei
2006-08-04 13:29:13
172.   King of the Hobos
Wikipedia says the Naugles/Del Taco merger came in 1988.
2006-08-04 13:29:51
173.   Paul Scott
Penny should insist on getting #5. :)
2006-08-04 13:30:22
174.   Penarol1916
171. There's no infield fly rule in your league?
2006-08-04 13:30:24
175.   DXMachina
113 There are still some Roy Rogers around, at least there are on the Jersey Turnpike. I don't go to Roy's for the burgers, but for the roast beef sandwiches.

White Castle was a staple when I was in college in NJ, because they were the only place open after midnight. I only know of the In n Out through my invisible internet buddies.

2006-08-04 13:31:29
176.   Marty
I seem to remember a Roy Rogers in on Beach Blvd. in Huntington Beach back in the 70s.
2006-08-04 13:31:53
177.   Xeifrank
174. Infield fly rule IS NOT in effect with only a runner on first base. Sorry if that was not clear in the narrative. :)
vr, Xei
2006-08-04 13:32:58
178.   DXMachina
171 I was going to say earlier that the only no-hitter I've ever witnessed in peerson was one that was thrown against my slowpitch softball team. That was embarrassing.
2006-08-04 13:34:02
179.   regfairfield
114 Thanks for the advertizement, Jon.

173 I already can't tell Brad Penny and Hee Seop apart from a distance, giving him number five would just make things worse.

2006-08-04 13:34:14
180.   Xeifrank
178. haha! wow, that's amazing. Was it a co-ed league, or a no height limit on pitches league? We had a game that we scored only one run in, but never a no-no. vr, Xei
2006-08-04 13:34:48
181.   Penarol1916
175. Yeah, I was reading in a fast food journal a couple of years ago that there was a movement afoot to revive Roy Rogers, the only thing that stood out from that article was that Cincinnati was the only place that had one east of the Appalachians.
2006-08-04 13:35:32
182.   mikethinksblue
Anyone else like the chili-tamales at Tommy's?

I've actually never had a burger there, but lots of tamales. There's just something good about a tamale covered in chili, cheese, a thick tomatoe slice and a pickle.

2006-08-04 13:37:49
183.   oswald
has anyone heard any rumors about the dodgers trying to get andruw jones. one unidentified team has the opportunity to trade for him now. anyone?
2006-08-04 13:38:54
184.   Underbruin
182 - I've had them before. They're pretty good - I'm more of a burger guy, though.
2006-08-04 13:39:34
185.   Sam DC
Al Bundy -- you'd like Marty's in Rancho Park -- Pico and Patricia. Very messy, very flatgrilled burger stand.

We've actually had this entire burger thread before.

This is where LAT and I started talking about how Howard who runs Marty's was making book on the side.

2006-08-04 13:39:42
186.   Nagman
It seems that this team must be on their way to setting a team record for sweeps in a season (being on the good or bad side of a sweep).

I just calculated that they've played 33 series of 3 or 4 games and 12 of them have been sweeps. This doesn't include two 2-game series which they were swept in both.

2006-08-04 13:40:28
187.   Xeifrank
183. Yeah, 6-4-2 has a piece up on that. We'd probably have to give up someone good like Joel Guzman for a slugger like Andruw Jones though. :)
vr, Xei
2006-08-04 13:40:34
188.   Sam DC
Capdodger -- the Five Guys by the new ballpark site is at New Jersey and M SE. It's a little hard to spot, as it's part of the groundfloor retail of a large office type building.
2006-08-04 13:41:42
189.   Kayaker7
167 But Carrara is a Venezuelan, of Italian extraction. :)
2006-08-04 13:42:00
190.   al bundy
Sam - yep, I recall. I got excited because I just went on a burger splurge during my 3 week stay in the US.
2006-08-04 13:43:13
191.   LAT
The only thing that would arouse him any more than he already is, is if the Dodgers had traded for LoDuca.

Discussing Plaschke's arousal on any level, especially at the thought of LoDuca, must violate the DT code of conduct. I know it violates the laws of nature.

2006-08-04 13:43:49
192.   Sam DC
So Marty -- has Tiger really not started his second round yet?
2006-08-04 13:44:07
193.   Icaros
We've actually had this entire burger thread before.

So I'm reading a re-run?

When did DT go into syndication?

2006-08-04 13:45:19
194.   al bundy
My understanding re potential compensation for Andruw is that if it's not a player who's not on the 40 man roster, the compensation also has to pass through waivers. I'm not holding my breath that there's adequate compensation out there that would cause the Braves to pull the trigger.
2006-08-04 13:45:40
195.   gibsonhobbs88
163 - I agree as I made a similar comment last night on another thread. I also think this is a media-driven controversy and that Maddux probably did no more than inquire about the possibility, nothing more. He doesn't seem like a prima donna type to me that would be negatively stirring up the clubhouse.
116 - The Dodgers just faced the Cardinals at the wrong time when we were at our weakest, Nomar slumping, Kent hurt, Drew with a power outage-the post all-star break blues. Their best chances to win any were the two extra inning games in St. Louis-games 1 and 3 when they had numerous chances to win but couldn't capitalize. Out here, we had no ammunition in which to compete with the Cards, offense was completely dead in the water making average pitchers look like Gibson, Drysdale & Koufax rolled into one.
2006-08-04 13:46:14
196.   Underbruin
191 - I second that point.
2006-08-04 13:46:50
197.   al bundy
(193) I think the previous edition was much more Tommy's- and Kirk's-centric.
2006-08-04 13:48:19
198.   Marty
192 Sam, you're confusing me.
2006-08-04 13:48:46
199.   Jon Weisman
165 - The only Kirk's I vouch for is the original one on California Avenue in Palo Alto. And I believe the ownership may have changed since I was in school. But in its glory years, it was amazing.
2006-08-04 13:49:30
200.   Jon Weisman
193 - "When did DT go into syndication?"

Buy The Best of Dodger Thoughts today!

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-08-04 13:49:42
201.   Underbruin
This might be opening a can of worms, but...

If you could trade JD Drew (possibly plus a low-level prospect) for Andruw Jones, would you? Drew's better at getting on base, but Jones arguably has better power numbers. It really depends on if you believe Drew's power stats this year are evidence of a likely permanent decline, or just a hiccough (which is my opinion). I just wanted to put the question out there...

2006-08-04 13:50:41
202.   Jon Weisman
From Inside the Dodgers:

"Also, from SABR's Rod Nelson and Ted Turocy, last night's Saenz to Betemit to Maddux 3-5-1 double play is only the sixth since 1957, according to Retrosheet, to include the third baseman as the pivot man. So just think, if you were bummed that you didn't get to see a no-hitter last night, you actually got to see something a lot more rare!"

2006-08-04 13:51:30
203.   D4P
192
Tiger just teed off.
2006-08-04 13:51:49
204.   Robert Fiore
Coming in late on this, but:

1) If Maddux is going to throw a no-hitter, he doesn't need a cushion.

2) If Maddux isn't going to throw a no-hitter, then there's no reason for him to pitch the last three innings.

2006-08-04 13:54:11
205.   Jon Weisman
Dodger Thoughts + Kirk's

http://www.all-baseball.com/dodgerthoughts/archives/017244.html

2006-08-04 13:55:15
206.   regfairfield
201 Probably. Drew's probably better when he's healthy, but Jones plays far more often than he does. Of course, Jones is much worse at getting on base, and he doesn't play great defense any more (his career low rate2 prior to 2004 was 109, he hasn't exceeded 102 since).
2006-08-04 13:56:42
207.   Icaros
200

Already bought it.

2006-08-04 13:56:49
208.   Jon Weisman
204 - Well, yeah. But you don't know in advance whether he's going to throw a no-hitter or not. And that cushion helps you bypass the decision.
2006-08-04 13:57:46
209.   Jon Weisman
207 - I was just answering the "when."
2006-08-04 13:58:40
210.   DXMachina
180 Nope, no such luck, All guys, limited arc. It was awful.

We also turned two triple plays in the same game once, and still lost.

2006-08-04 13:59:52
211.   capdodger
Sam,
Right at Navy Yard? I bet there's about zero parking there. Eh... probably better for a day when I get hungry halfway home. It's a long way back from Suitland.
2006-08-04 14:00:20
212.   Icaros
209

I got you. Just letting you know where I stand :-)

2006-08-04 14:01:37
213.   capdodger
200
Ewww... Clip shows...
(jk... don't ban me!)
2006-08-04 14:02:35
214.   gibsonhobbs88
201-It's probably just hypothetical anyway, who's to say the Dodgers are the team that claimed him. If it's them, who's the source? Let's not get crazy now with Andruw rumors. We have a younger potential Andruw type in AAA with Matt Kemp. Centerfield will be in good hands with either the speedy Repko or the speed and power of Kemp.
2006-08-04 14:06:03
215.   Underbruin
213 - Could we at least get a song-and-dance routine like in the Simpsons (at least, I think it was the Simpsons that did it with one of their clipshows)?
2006-08-04 14:06:27
216.   Icaros
Centerfield will be in good hands with either the speedy Repko...

Let's not get carried away. If Repko's the future, I want Andrew Jones.

2006-08-04 14:07:18
217.   Bluebleeder87
We also turned two triple plays in the same game once, and still lost.

I'd join a better team if I were you.

2006-08-04 14:07:21
218.   Sam DC
211 Yeah, quite close to the Green Line stop. But I think it's actually quite easy to park on the street there now, because most of the area has been demo'd in advance of stadium related redevelopment.
2006-08-04 14:07:56
219.   Sam DC
Marty -- I think of you as a Tiger guy. I was just surprised to check the leaderboard and it showed he hadn't tee'd off and I wondered if I was missing something.
2006-08-04 14:09:29
220.   Underbruin
214 - Oh, it's highly unlikely in my opinion that the Dodgers are the team that claimed Jones. It's not like we're lacking for outfielders right now (gotta have something to trade away for shortstops). I was simply wondering what people might think, if it -was- the Dodgers who did claim him.

Though, I'd also like to think that the Dodgers would be in a position of strength in the bargaining because of the 5/10 issue... Maybe they could get him cheaper than Drew. That'd be one heck of a highly unlikely, albeit amusing to wonder about, outfield. Drew, Jones, Kemp, with Repko as the 4th OF.

2006-08-04 14:10:33
221.   Marty
RIP Arthur Lee.
2006-08-04 14:12:04
222.   capdodger
218
Hmm... Good to know.
2006-08-04 14:12:43
223.   Marty
I am a Tiger guy. I just hadn't thought about golf for awhile.

When I saw your post I immediately thought "Did I post something and forget about it? Wait, is the British open this week? no, they already had it. What's this week?"

2006-08-04 14:14:21
224.   Underbruin
221 - Aww, dang. Forever Changes was a great album. I heard he did one of the first Hendrix recordings - this true?
2006-08-04 14:15:09
225.   Jonny6
I'm not sure what amazes me more, that I just wasted a half-hour of my work day reading posts about In-N-Out or 178 statement that there was a no-hitter in slow pitch softball. A no hitter - in softball?
How is that possible?

I'm a not a big fast food fan but I'm definite In-N-Out proponent. Nothing beats sitting down to a single with cheese, fries, and a chocolate shake while on a road trip. Another good thing about In-N-Out, for anyone who's read Fast Food Nation, is that it's a pretty well run company (although I'm not familiar with the current soap opera status). They treat their employees as well as you can expect for an entry level job, use the same food sources consistently (assuring better quality), and refuse to go into franchise status, which at least according to the Fast Food Nation author is the root of all evil when it comes to the rest of the fast food world. I'm not religious so the bible quotes on the cups aren't my cup of tea, but I can easily put that aside in the name of good food, good prices, and (gasp!)a fairly socially responsible company.

2006-08-04 14:18:10
226.   Terry A
220 - Poor Three-Point-Five can't catch a break!
2006-08-04 14:18:25
227.   Underbruin
225 - In'N'Out is socially responsible?

Welp, not eating there any more. =P

2006-08-04 14:18:27
228.   Marty
224 I hadn't heard that. I just watched a youtube video of Love doing Little Red Book on some Shindig-like show.
2006-08-04 14:22:43
229.   Jonny6
RE My own post 225
When I say "waste", that's speaking from management's perspective. To me, it's a perfectly good use of my time.

Re 227
Well, we're talking relative to the rest of the fast food world. I don't think they're hosting meet-ups for PETA or staging fundraisers for Nader's 2008 Presidential campaign.

2006-08-04 14:25:15
230.   GoBears
Mmm.... burgers. My general rule for eating out is not to waste time or money on something I can easily make better at home. So, my hamburger intake is generally limited to drive-thrus on road trips (usually between LA and Northern California). For that reason, I avoid In-n-Out. The burgers are good, and fresh, but when I'm driving 6 hours through the Central Valley, the last thing I want to do is wait 15-20 minutes in line. They should call that place "In-n-Wait...n-Wait...n-Wait." Good, but not enough better than other options to justify the wait.

I've live about 4 blocks from Apple Pan for nearly 4 years now, and within a few miles for 12 years, but I only just tried it for the first time a couple months ago. And likely the last time. It was decent, but nothing like the hype (and way to expensive for a decent, small hamburger. Definitely violates my "shoulda stayed home and made it myself" rule.

I live even closer to that Marty's stand, but I've only ever had sausages there. I'm "working" at home today, and fresh out of ground beef, so I think I'll wander over there this afternoon and give it a test drive. I love that the suggestion for a place 2 blocks away comes from a guy in DC. Oh, and it's Pico and Prosser (one light west of Patricia).

Hmm....be right back...

2006-08-04 14:27:38
231.   underdog
Seriously doubt the Dodgers are the team to claim Jones. I know Yankees fans on Bronx Banter have been freaking out about the idea that it's the Red Sox. Could be the Astros. Could be... well, we'll see.

Don't the players the Braves would trade to them in return have to clear waivers, too, or is that not how it works?

2006-08-04 14:28:19
232.   Underbruin
226 - Gah. Knew I was forgetting something. Thanks for the catch. So rotate between Ethier and Kemp, Repko can be a pinch hitter or a utility guy.
2006-08-04 14:28:43
233.   Sam DC
Prosser . . . it makes me so sad I botched that.

I grew up on Dunleer. Meanwhile, you and LAT will probably turn out to be next door neighbors . . .

2006-08-04 14:29:37
234.   Underbruin
231 - The Bronx Banter boys need to calm down. There's almost no way Jones got all the way through the NL (as is my understanding, he has to clear all NL teams first) then got all the way to the BoSox in the AL.
2006-08-04 14:35:18
235.   blue22
234 - I think most people need to calm down. As I understand it, a great deal of veterans are passed through waivers (and I'd assume most would be claimed at some point, and waivers then revoked by the player's team).

I don't think I understand why this happens. Is this done by the player's team as a "just in case we can work something out", or is there some other benefit?

2006-08-04 14:37:33
236.   King of the Hobos
234 Boston has a better record than any NL team save the Mets (they have the same record), so no matter how it goes (NL first or everyone), they'd still be towards the very end. There's very little reason to believe he got to Boston. Personally, I can't believe Andruw is going anywhere, as the players the Braves would want probably wouldn't make it through waivers. You can do the PTBNL tactic like the Red Sox and Orioles just did, but then you can't use someone in the majors (thus Billingsley, Broxton, Martin, and Ethier are safe from being PTBNLs).
2006-08-04 14:39:18
237.   King of the Hobos
235 It's used as a smokescreen so other teams don't pick up their intentions. If you only passed one player through rather than all 40, the teams would know a deal is about to go down and a team could block it.
2006-08-04 14:39:54
238.   Daniel Zappala
My general rule for eating out is not to waste time or money on something I can easily make better at home.

You've hit exactly on my policy. I've gotten better at cooking over the years, so I have ended up eating out less and less.

2006-08-04 14:40:33
239.   blue22
237 - And that would be the other benefit. Thanks, that does make some sense.
2006-08-04 14:43:40
240.   Underbruin
236 - Right. Though I'm not so sure Andruw's not getting moved - that 5/10 can be a bit scary, especially for a guy with a contract as large as his. They might be trying to pick up more youth, not that they'd need it...
2006-08-04 14:44:13
241.   Steve
Don't all the players involved in a post-July 31 trade have to clear waivers?
2006-08-04 14:46:01
242.   Marty
I consider myself a pretty good cook. Weirdly though, hamburgers are one thing I never seem to be able to make as good as ordered out.
2006-08-04 14:48:29
243.   blue22
241 - Only those on the 40-man, if I recall correctly.
2006-08-04 14:50:50
244.   Jon Weisman
221 - I take it you don't mean the former Stanford point guard from North Hollywood.
2006-08-04 14:52:49
245.   Jon Weisman
238 - I follow that policy. Unforunately, it only applies to scrambled eggs and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for me. And I don't make myself scrambled eggs anymore - because of cholesterol. So there you are.
2006-08-04 14:55:09
246.   King of the Hobos
Only roster players must go through waivers, but that leaves only AAAA players and extremely young players available without the hassle of waivers. Not many teams are willing to deal their stars for Mike Venafro and some kids my age (unless you're the Phillies).
2006-08-04 14:56:56
247.   regfairfield
My girlfriend banned me from cooking after I fumbled a turkey and dropped a hamburger into the grill.

She wasn't nearly as receptive of my "small sample size" argument as she should have been.

2006-08-04 14:57:06
248.   Steve
Yeah, I guess my point is that I don't see Jon Lester clearing waivers. And if he did, I would be decidedly more upset with Ned Colletti than I already am.
2006-08-04 14:58:13
249.   Terry A
True love is the greatest thing in the world, except for a nice MLT - mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich - when the mutton is nice and lean, and the tomato is ripe. They're so perky. I love that.
2006-08-04 15:00:16
250.   GoBears
OK - back with my Martyburger. The (iceburg) lettuce is fresh and crunchy. The meat is OK - a very thin patty. Not bad - not too greasy - and not pre-cooked like most fast food garbage, but nothing real special. I think I'll just have to go with double meat next time to improve the meat-to-fixins ratio.

Still, a quick, satisfying lunch for $3.50 (went with the cheeseburger). Thanks for the tip, Sam!

Oh, and yeah, I'm aware that LAT lives close by. I kind of like the mystery. I walk the dog around the neighborhood 2-3 times a day, and it's fun wondering if she's peeing on LAT's lawn (I'm a good neighbor, and always pick up after her, but well, pee happens).

Interesting segue there, from lunch to, well never mind....

Oh, but speaking of Marty burgers and dogs, how's your pooch doing, Marty?

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-08-04 15:02:31
251.   D4P
247
(Sample) size matters.
2006-08-04 15:03:16
252.   GoBears
OK - back with my Martyburger. The (iceburg) lettuce is fresh and crunchy. The meat is OK - a very thin patty. Not bad - not too greasy - and not pre-cooked like most fast food garbage, but nothing real special. I think I'll just have to go with double meat next time to improve the meat-to-fixins ratio.

Still, a quick, satisfying lunch for $3.50 (went with the cheeseburger). Thanks for the tip, Sam!

Oh, and yeah, I'm aware that LAT lives close by. I kind of like the mystery. I walk the dog around the neighborhood 2-3 times a day, and it's fun wondering if she's peeing on LAT's lawn (I'm a good neighbor, and always pick up after her, but well, pee happens).

Interesting segue there, from lunch to, well never mind....

Oh, but speaking of Marty burgers and dogs, how's your pooch doing, Marty?

2006-08-04 15:03:35
253.   3upn3down
This post from Jon reminds me of my appology I made to DT for moving from one spot on my couch to another during one of the Clipper's losses against the Suns, thus causing the clipper's run to fall short that night.

Following that appology, Jon assured me the DT readers appreciated my mea culpa. Which of course marks the day I looked up what mea culpa means in the dictionary.

I still don't know whether I was being belittled by Jon for acting immature on a serious blog, or whether he was indeed humored by my post, and thought it would be appropriate to reply.

Reading this story from Jon, I now believe it was the latter.

2006-08-04 15:03:56
254.   GoBears
Hmm... not sure how that happened. Sorry 'bout that.
2006-08-04 15:04:32
255.   Mr Customer
243 - Correct. Any on-roster player would only have to be cleared by the Royals, Rays, Indians, Orioles, Pirates, Cubs, and Nats before Atlanta could finalize.
2006-08-04 15:05:39
256.   blue22
248 - Scott Elbert, for instance, would not though.

If the Dodgers were in fact the team that claimed him, an Elbert-for-Andruw could happen.

2006-08-04 15:06:04
257.   Mr Customer
248 - Atlanta comes before LA on the waiver wire. We don't get a chance.
2006-08-04 15:10:07
258.   Jon Weisman
253 - No belittling on my end.

252 - I've only gotten delicious hot dogs from Marty's - never burgers.

2006-08-04 15:11:17
259.   Steve
255, 257 -- Ah. I get it. Thank you.
2006-08-04 15:12:47
260.   Blu2
Apparently there was an attempted trade involving J D drew last Monday. This leads me to believe he does have a no trade clause or the Dodgers simply were asking more than the other team was willing to pay. That is to say, I don't believe the two year option out clause he has was a factor. If he were traded, and if he opted out, he would not find anyone to offer more than $11M bases on his output the last two seasons (including this one). The other team must have had some interest in what he could do for them this year, and they would have had as good a chance as anyone else in retaining or resigning him for next year. Ergo, the price tag or the no trade clause had to be the reason for failing to complete the trade.
2006-08-04 15:12:59
261.   Marty
250 Thanks for asking. He comes home, hopefully for good tomorrow. He still needs a lot of help and more therapy, but I'm going to see if I can handle it. He's walking very well but still is weak in the hind legs. Everyone I talk to seems to think he's doing remarkably well and thinks he's on the way to a good recovery. I can't believe it's only been 3 weeks, it seems like two months already.
2006-08-04 15:15:54
262.   Steve
I would not put it past Colletti to do something silly like claim Andruw Jones, but it is not us.
2006-08-04 15:18:26
263.   Mr Customer
259 - OT, I hadn't noticed just how badly the AL beat the NL in interleauge play until I started looking at the combined standings. Ouch.
2006-08-04 15:18:56
264.   blue22
262 - I'm going with the Astros.
2006-08-04 15:20:05
265.   GoBears
261 That's good news. Here's hoping the recovery continues apace.
2006-08-04 15:20:35
266.   jet
I know I'm jumping in late re the potential Maddox no-hitter. But having watched every pitch of the game, it was clear that the home plate ump was one, squeezing him, and on top of that, was wildly inconsistent. For instance, a ball that was a strike was called a ball; then the identical pitch was called a strike...as if the ump realized the earlier mistake. Maddox even had a between innings conversation with him as he walked off the mound. I can only guess that was the subject. I believe the above caused Maddox to conclude he couldn't trust the ump, and therefore wasn't going to jeopardize the win by returning (after a one hour six minute rain delay and this at the age of 40) with only a two run lead and Griffey and Dunn due up. Maddox's actions were admirable and team oriented. Especially when he's gone something like 677 starts without pitching a no hitter. I was one of the ones who was depressed to see Izturis go, but nevertheless -- and yes, I know it's only one start -- I'm glad we have Maddox. Gotta go, my crow's burning in the oven.
2006-08-04 15:21:39
267.   D4P
Fur-kel
K-Lo
Yugo

back at the top of the lineup.

2006-08-04 15:22:41
268.   Johnson
OK, I'm confused on the whole waivers thing. My understanding was that in order to trade a player on the 40-man after July 31, that player had to clear waivers - every team has to pass on the risk of taking that player's contract. Thus, if Atlanta wanted to trade Jones to Boston, the Sox would have to avoid putting a waiver claim on Jones (and Atlanta would have to do likewise for any player on the 40-man coming back from Boston). If Boston put in a claim on Jones, he couldn't be traded, although Atlanta could simply not withdraw the waiver request and Jones and his contract would ship out to Boston - albeit with nothing in return. Is that off-factual?

(All I Really Know About Waivers I Learned From Rob Neyer):
http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

2006-08-04 15:25:02
269.   Nagman
My understanding is that Atlanta would then be able to work out a trade with whoever claims him that gets the rights, i.e. if he fell all the way to Boston and Boston claims him, they can work out a trade.
2006-08-04 15:29:12
270.   Sam DC
I know it's just the Buick Open, but your guy Tiger is having a pretty good front nine.
2006-08-04 15:29:40
271.   alex 7
"Maddox" reminds me too much of Maalox, so let's keep his name as Maddux.
2006-08-04 15:32:31
272.   Jon Weisman
270 - "Just the Buick Open?" And I suppose your mother was "just a mother."
2006-08-04 15:32:44
273.   Icaros
Julio Lugo has played a total of 39 innings in the outfield (20 in LF, 2 in CF, 17 in RF--all for Houston). He has a 1.000 fielding percentage as an outfielder!

Would an outfield of Ethier-Drew-Lugo or Lugo-Drew-Ethier be a lot worse than Ethier-Lofton/Repko-Drew?

Assuming he could play LF or RF when (and if) Kent and Nomar come back, LA's lineup would be pretty strong:

Furcal (SS)
Lugo (LF or RF)
Garciaparra (1B)
Drew (CF)
Kent (2B)
Ethier (LF)
Betemit (3B)
Martin (C)

2006-08-04 15:34:03
274.   Uncle Miltie
I am a pretty bad cook. I can cook spaghetti, anything in a can that just has to be heated up, frozen food, and eggs. I tried to make grilled cheese in a pan once and one side was completely burnt. I hope my future wife is a good cook, otherwise I'm going to have to go out to eat every night.
2006-08-04 15:34:49
275.   Icaros
Add an (or RF) to Ethier in 273.
2006-08-04 15:37:49
276.   jet
271- You're right. I must've had Lester Maddox on my mind. Bats, ax handles...
2006-08-04 15:39:45
277.   Sam DC
272 Hey! I was all excited before and then Marty was all, "What, there's golf on, oh that whatever." And so I was like, uh ok, whatever. And like where were you then, Mr. Buick Open?
2006-08-04 15:43:12
278.   Bluebleeder87
273

that line up works for me.

2006-08-04 15:45:03
279.   GoBears
277. Or something.
2006-08-04 15:46:57
280.   Sam DC
279 Yeah, that didn't really work. I knew as I was hitting submit that I wasn't going to think it was funny in the end.
2006-08-04 15:47:44
281.   Jon Weisman
277 - Ah, heck, I don't know what I'm talking about :)

So in 270 you say, Tiger's having a pretty good front nine. But is he having an interesting front nine?

What's the no-no equivalent in golf? An attempt at a fifty-na na?

2006-08-04 15:49:34
282.   Jon Weisman
I am rooting for Izturis to do well, but he went 0 for 4 with an error today.
2006-08-04 15:54:54
283.   jet
282- Izzy has to still in a state of shock. Alone, adrift. Wearing the same clothes every day. All these coaches expecting him to be the next coming off Ozzie Smith (when he finally could hit). The pressure (especially abetted those lovely Cub fans) must be intense.
2006-08-04 15:56:14
284.   jet
That should have read "still BE in a state of shock..." Sorry.
2006-08-04 15:56:50
285.   Bluebleeder87
283

yeah, I think He'll settle down.

2006-08-04 16:02:11
286.   dzzrtRatt
Just curious: If the theme of today's post is that you, Jon, are not a rational person, how would you know that?

Your title was "the illusion of control." Except, for you, it's no illusion. Are you simply conceding to the skeptics, the debunkers in our midst? Or are you a house divided against yourself?

2006-08-04 16:04:01
287.   blue22
285 - Settle down to what though? That's what I'd be worried about as a Cubs fan.
2006-08-04 16:08:07
288.   Jon Weisman
286 - "a house divided against yourself?"

That is an excellent way to sum up my feelings about myself.

2006-08-04 16:09:04
289.   Daniel Zappala
274 Oh, come on, you can learn to cook a grilled cheese sandwich. Just turn the heat down low if you are burning it.

In fact, I would wager that anyone, if you really wanted to, could learn how to cook. You just follow a recipe, it's not like you have to figure anything out yourself. Maybe I'm being too harsh? Are there really people who have tried to cook something simple, over and over, and continually messed it up? Is it like being Chevy Chase trying to walk down stairs?

2006-08-04 16:12:20
290.   GoBears
288 Well, according to old Abe, you'd better sit down then. Cuz, you know, standing will be tough.
2006-08-04 16:14:34
291.   Bluebleeder87
Settle down to what though? That's what I'd be worried about as a Cubs fan.

when you know his glove will be magical, his hitting will improve also.

2006-08-04 16:18:11
292.   blue22
291 - 2004 - Izzy's only halfway decent year offensively just happened to be his worst year with the glove.

2003 - brilliant with the glove, but oh that .213 eqa...

2006-08-04 16:30:30
293.   Linkmeister
289 Well, there was a reason behind The Food Network's airing a show entitled "How to Boil Water" in its early years.
2006-08-04 16:32:35
294.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2006-08-04 16:33:22
295.   Andrew Shimmin
Teaching yourself to cook spaghetti is as easy as watching the Godfather again. As Clemenza teaches Sonny, so too can he teach you.
2006-08-04 16:33:45
296.   Mr Customer
282 - As for the hitting, baseball is a game of failure. He'll have better days.

The fielding will probably come with time. Wrigley's infield is rumored to be, well, odd. Apocryphally, it has unusual grass, extremely long infield grass, slightly off-kilter dimensions, etc.

Verifiably, it does have a slightly different dirt suface than any stadium to which I've been. I have no idea what, if any effect this might have, but there you go.

2006-08-04 16:37:39
297.   Bluebleeder87
294

I don't see it Jon?

2006-08-04 16:38:51
298.   thinkblue0
I really can't believe that Lofton actually starts.
2006-08-04 16:39:16
299.   ToyCannon
I am forever amazed that In&Out was my favorite hangout after work 30 years ago in high school in the late hours of the night and now my 18 year old niece and her friends also frequent it at the same time. I think only one thing is constant and that is the shape of our teen age mental condition which leads me to believe that In&Out is the munchy place to be and it is the munchy reflex that causes people to continue to frequent it long after they have stopped a certain excess, cause it surely is not that great a burger.
2006-08-04 16:41:05
300.   Bluebleeder87
I found it.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-08-04 18:09:13
301.   caseybarker
That was an awfully quick catch and throw by Betemit.
2006-08-04 19:17:45
302.   das411
Aww even the New Yorkers are cheering for CHASE!!!! UTLEYYYYYY!!!!!!!! :(

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