The Times also said everyone on the team was glad that Odalis is gone.

Can't blame them for loosing on purpose just to spite Perez :)

Being able to trade Odalis and bringing back a quality arm in Elmer Dessens was pure GENIUS.

3 Elmer Dessens is a quality arm? If so, why didn't Flanders hold on to him in the first place?

Failing to offer arbitration to Elmer "Quality Arm" Dessens (and thus feeling more pressure to trade for hacks like Seo, Hamulack, Carter, and Baez and sign a hack like Tomko, while forfeiting a potential draft pick) was pure LUNACY.

"Things are going well for us now," Lofton said. "We knew we were going to turn it around sooner or later. We're winning, and that's that."

First he hits a homer, now he's making sense. If only he could catch.

6. That may be asking too much

6 Russel Martin ain't good enough for you. ;-)

No, I know what you mean; the guy can't catch deep fly balls.

He can't throw out baserunners either. :-(

It does not surprise me that they were pretty quiet:

Baez (2005 club Devil Rays)
Carter (2005 club Devil Rays)
Hamulack (2005 club Mets)
Kuo (2005 club Farm system, Dodgers)
Osoria (2005 club Farm system, Dodgers)
Brazoban (2005 club Dodgers
Gagne (2005 club Dodgers, injured)

You had a group of pitchers who had just come together at the beginning of the year and then two days into the season, Gagne goes out and they bring another free agent in Saito.

So you either had young guys who aren't going to talk too much anyways and then a couple of guys from different teams.

I think now with vets like Dessens, Carrera and Tomko, plus now Broxton, Beimel and Saito have been up for a while now so they should be more at ease now.

I think Tony Jackson may be trying to read too much into that statement, I would think after 3 months or so, things would be more lively plus a 7 game winning streak is always going to help.

Extra Innings viewers are out of luck today. While it is a Fox Prime Network game, I assume the early start (3pm PST) falls in the Big Fox exclusivity window so EI is not carrying it.

I think potential conflicts just get easier to sweep under the rug when the players are in a good mood because they're winning. If they were in the middle of a losing streak, then Penny's blowups and Lugo's unhappiness (see today's Times and/or Daily News notes) are what everyone would be talking about.

I even saw Jeff Kent crack a smile a couple of days ago!

Oh, and thank you, Florida Marlins, for scheduling today's game at 6 p.m. so nobody can watch it.

There are many different languages they get along in, too.

The three shortstops all speak to each other in Spanish. Martin and Gagne can converse in French. Penny and Maddux can speak to each other in the other kind of French (profanity). And Ethier and Saito were having a clubhouse conversation in Japanese the other day.

11 I was always under the impression that FOX's blackout applied to local broadcasts too. Is that not the case?

I even saw Jeff Kent crack a smile a couple of days ago

AP Wire: Dodger second baseman Jeff Kent placed on 15-day DL with strained jaw muscle.

14
The game is slated to be on KCAL, so I guess that isn't affected.

14

I also believe that there are six people who understand the MLB blackout rules completely as they pertain to EI, MLB.tv, and local broadcasts.

Each person lives in a separate part of the country, so none of them can be taken out simultaneously with a terrorist attack.

Also, each of these six people are trying to find people who are pure of mind and heart and are willing subjects to learn the rules.

Some people feel they must be stopped. A self-flagellating albino monk is going around trying to kill these people one by one.

4 I feel Neddie was comfortable opening the season with a bullpen of

1. Gagne
2. Brazoban
3. Kuo
4. Osoria
5. Baez
6. Carter
7. Hammy/Wunsch
.....and possibly Saito, who we all know has turned to gold.

I'm sure Neddie felt there were cheaper alternatives than Elmer at the time.

Neddie has an uncanny abilty to adjust. He's not a GM that says, "OK I brought this guy in I'm sticking with him, do or die."

Neddie looks out for the best interests of the team. He didn't hesitate to DFA Carter and Hammy, or trade Seo and Baez. He adjusted. When a sucker fell upon Odalis he was able to bring back Elmer who has contributed tenfold early for the blue.

13
Lowe and his buddies converse in American.

15 Kent denies smiling. He says he was washing his truck.

5 Trading for Seo and Hammy made all the sense in the world at the time. Seo was a world beater in the 2nd half of 2005 who we could reasonably have expected to be at least a .500 pitcher in the 5 spot of the rotation.

As far as Baez goes, like I've said before, if he pitches exactly as he did in '03, '04, '05, the trade works out exceptionally. For whatever reason, he pitched much worse than the previous 3 seasons. Of course I'm kind of curious to how the Baez bashers would have felt if we signed Todd Jones to be our potential closer with Gagne's health issues. I suspect the Jones hate would have equalled the Baez hate.

I think "chemistry," like fielding, is not overrated so much as it is unmeasurable, thus discounted.

Most of you have worked with other people at some point in your lives. The personalities of the people you work with affect how well you do your job. Maybe that factor shouldn't be a factor. We're all programmed to do our best, so we do our best and nothing will interfere with the pure signal of our talent.

But my life experience tells me otherwise.

When "Vic the Brick" and his ilk talk about chemistry, they're obviously full of crap. But when a player himself mentions it, I don't automatically discount it. Human motivation is subtle and tricky to measure, but happiness in the workplace does have some impact.

13 Eric, were you just cracking a joke about Ethier speaking Japanese? If not, then I'm even more impressed with Ethier than I previously was. Learning to speak Japanese is at least as hard as playing baseball in the high minors (I speak from experience...I never got above the Rookie League in spoken Japanese).

21 The problem is that Baez did pitch like he did in '03, '04, and '05. He allowed baserunners at roughly the same rate but gave up more runs.

21 - Baez's preripherals have never been good. He got a lot of saves in TB; that doesn't prove anything. Relievers are known for being inconsistent (i.e: Brad Lidge).

22 While everything you say is true, pretty much every quote on chemistry I've seen from a ballplayer is some sort of paraphrase of the maxim, "Chemistry is a distillation of winning."

So while it's true that happiness in the work place unmistakably affects job performance, I think for baseball players, winning or losing has a much greater effect on happiness in the workplace than does the personality of their teammates.

23 No, they were really speaking Japanese. I'm not sure, though, if he actually knows the language or was just trying to learn a bit of it from Saito.

27 Well, props to him for trying. Japanese is a hard, hard language.

17 Blackouts, one of the biggest mysteries in sports.

Yahoo had the game being televised on Prime, but I'm happy to see that its on KCAL. I can pick up KCAL with my antenna from north San Diego, so I will be able to watch some of the game (my son's 6th b-day party - a bowling party - will probably keep me from seeing Billz, but maybe I can catch Broxton-Saito).

Prime is supposed to carry the games Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

KCAL has today, Sunday, Tuesday

Big Fox next Saturday

ESPN next Sunday

Reds go ahead of the Braves 6-3 on a 3-run homer by Phillips in the 4th off of Jason Shiell.

Yeah, that guy.

I also thought the Baez deal made a lot of sense at that time especially from Ned's experience with the Giants when they found themselves always trying to figure out what to do when their closers when down (Nen and Benitez).

Ultimately, I think in November, only Kuo and Brazoban will be left on the 40 man roster from this season's original bullpen.

32.

Maybe, but from now on, lets not trade good players/ good prospects for relievers. I'm sorry, I don't wanna be run like the Reds, and see Ethier and Martin for the National's bullpen.

33 I hate to keep bringing this up but which good players and prospects (and to me just because a guy puts up numbers in the minors does not make him a prospect) did we trade for relievers?

32 It did make sense.

Let me throw some numbers out for you in regards to Mr. Baez.

Batting average against.
'03 - .229
'04 - .237
'05 - .244
'06 - .283 (as a Dodger)

OPS against
'03 - .673
'04 - .685
'05 - .674
'06 - .735 (as a Dodger)

not only that, Baez has a career .243 BAA. And I refuse to believe over the course of his career he has been LUCKY to post that .243 BAA against.

These are facts I believe many posters turn their backs on and ignore.

34 33 I hate to keep bringing this up but which good players and prospects (and to me just because a guy puts up numbers in the minors does not make him a prospect) did we trade for relievers?

Steve Schmoll, Edwin Jackson, and Chuck Tiffany. LOL...

34- So, what does make a prospect?

First he hits a homer, now he's making sense. If only he could catch.

& throw

Braves tie the Reds on homers by Laroche and Giles.

Neddie has an uncanny abilty to adjust. He's not a GM that says, "OK I brought this guy in I'm sticking with him, do or die."

that's a known fact can't argue there.

One of these days, I will finish yesterday's New York Times crossword puzzle.

It's been an ongoing process...

I don't think I'm ready for competition.

Two ships pass in the night, more or less...

G. Maddux, after coming to the Dodgers and losing his shot at the no-no due to weather, talks about doing what gives the team its best chance to win, is quoted in part saying "it's not about me."

O. Perez, after being traded by the Dodgers, says KC is a bad team, but there he can be "the ace, or at least one of the good guys." Makes it clear he thinks it IS all about him, as if there had been any lingering doubt.

One is going to the Hall of Fame. The other has gone to the Kansas City Royals.

Can you imagine what O. Perez would have said or done in G. Maddux's situation--however unlikely that might be? I cringe at the thought...

Your team chemistry will be much better, more conducive to winning when it's made up more of folks who see things like Maddux, than of those who see things like he-who-should-not-be-named-here-again-by-me.

Unfortunately, Maddux's outlook isn't shared by enough people in all walks of life, not just in sports.

36 Steve Schmoll 26 years old in AAA, 5-4 record, 53.1 IP 53 hits, 41K/15 BB ratio.

Edwin Jackson 22 years old in AAA, 2-7 record, 64 IP, 78 hits, 55K/32BB ratio, 2006 MLB stats 24.2 IP, 31 hits, 18K/17BB ratio.

Chuck Tiffany, injured since April, while in AA, 21 years old, 15.2 IP, 20 hits, 12K/14BB ratio.

Now, could one of these guys turn it around, sure but not this year, maybe not next year either.

Now, I think this argument is more about philosophy than results but at some point in a player's development you have to decide if you think he has some future in your organization and if he doesn't, what can of value does he have, Edwin Jackson's value was higher in 2003-2004 than it was in 2005, today, I am not sure what value he has languishing in bullpen for the Devil Rays (aside from the question of he can't start for the Rays, what does that say.)

37 I think you also have to look at the player's experience, the league is playing in and the depth of the system. While numbers are important, you have to look at the league and see is it a hitter's league or a pitcher's league.

38 Lofton and Andruw Jones have the same number of assists, 3, Edmonds has one more. Beltran leads NL CF with 7.

Hey, Chase Utley got a hit today. That runs his hitting streak to 1!

I'm also impressed that Colletti is willing to cut bait on failed ideas.

But you can't have it both ways. Either he is a genius with the Midas touch, or he makes mistakes that need correcting. You can't cite the ones that worked out (Saito, Ethier) and also cite the cancelled failures that didn't work out (Baez, Seo, Hamulack, Carter, Tomko) at the same time.

Methinks the wisest path is just to eschew superlatives. He's been lucky (Saito), unlucky (Baez), smart (Ethier), dumb (Carter) and we-don't-know yet (Betemit for Aybar, Guzman for Lugo, Perez for Dessens, Furcal, Lofton, Maddux for Izturis, etc.).

One thing we can certainly agree on is that he's active. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing (except that he keeps throwing in more and more money), but there it is.

As for the question of prospects, as far as we can tell right now (which ain't real far) the only top prospect he's used has been Guzman. But instead of thinking of prospects as either future All-stars or future busts, just think of them as assets. They're like money, only with feelings. Just as it's worthwhile to ask if he's spending money wisely (e.g., Furcal's contract) it's fair to ask if he's spending prospects wisely (e.g., only Lugo for Guzman and Pedroza)?

The answers aren't obvious, but the questions are absolutely fair.

46 is a very good and fair post, GoBears. I agree with it completely, though I might add Navarro to the list of "top prospects traded," but Navarro might not qualify as a prospect after having so much big-league playing time.

35-

I like how you fail to mention his other stats.

ERA's over that time:

2003: 3.81
2004: 3.57
2005: 2.86

Whip

2003: 1.16
2004: 1.31
2005: 1.33

Let's not forget that his K/BB ratio isn't all that great and he doesn't strike a ton of guys out.

Bluetahoe, face it, the Baez trade was an awful, AWFUL trade. Just admit it already.

44 Perhaps that was tongue-in-cheek, but of course we know that number of OF assists is a completely meaningless statistic unless we also know how many runners have run on each guy and been successful. What if only 3 guys have tried to advance on Jones and he's nailed all 3, whereas Lofton has nailed 3 of 412?

47. I agree on Navarro. Brain-farted that one.

48. My view of the Baez thing moves in the direction of Steve's: even if Baez had been every bit as "good" in 2006 as in the past few years, it still would have constituted a bad trade (money wasted, minor league assets wasted). Didn't like it then, still don't like it.

And, apropos of nothing, I don't like the practice of updating trades in the "it was essentially Tiffany, Jackson, and Aybar for Betemit and Carter" way. Because we can't erase the production of Aybar, Baez, and Carter while they were all here. We don't get back all those bad innings or JAWFAs or, to be fair, Aybar errors. It's only meaningful to assess one trade at a time for its marginal impact on the present and future of the organization.

Cardinal fans seem interested in their team adding Jose Cruz, Jr., to replace their LF merry-go-round of John Rodriguez, Chris Duncan, So Taguchi, and a host of others.

43- What does depth of system have to do with whether any particular player is a prospect?

Has a chemistry teacher ever said, "We've got good baseball"?

Colletti has made some shrewd moves, he has made some boneheaded moves, and he has made some unnecessary moves. He is neither Midas or Medusa; he's a pretty average GM right now which isn't bad for a first year GM. You just have to hope he learns from his mistakes and doesn't make them again.

And, since I'm commenting "off-suit" today:

My wife and I are now officially telling folks that we will have an addition to our family (our third such expansion project) in March.

55 - congrats to you and your wife

55- Congratulations! May your third child be a masculine child.

54. You also have to hope he knows which ones were the mistakes.

Congratulations Terry A!!

Also... I just ran into a former student while picking up the dry cleaning. This was cool for me because I've only been teaching one year. Anywho, she's majoring in Chemistry so I think I'll have her send a resume to the Dodgers. (bada bing!)

Thanks, I'm here all week.

58 - Good thing you put the reference in there, GB. That might've been uncomfortable timing.

Congrats, Terry A!

53 Has a chemistry teacher ever said, "We've got good baseball"?

Sure. Ray Milland in "It Happens Every Spring."

Cincy goes back in front on a Brandon Phillips HR

Speaking of wives (OK, that's a cheap segue) my wife made me laugh yesterday. As is appropriate, she is emboldened:

"Is it true that they traded away Little Cesar?"

"Yup."

"Who'd they get for him?"

"Greg Maddux."

"Oh, wow."

"Yeah, it would be 'oh wow," if he weren't 40 yrs old and not so great any more."

"Oh. Well, did the Dodgers need an old pitcher?"

[laughing]

"You're going to share that with your blog buddies, aren't you?!"

"Um...er...no. I wouldn't do that..."

60. Nice. Unintentional comedy is the best kind.

Going to the 9th in Cincinnati, Reds lead 8-6.

Bill Bray in to close it out.

The dreams of the 4-way tie for 2 playoff sports is over as the Reds win 8-6.

Congratulations Terry!

But 57 said it best. I laughed so loud I looked ridiculous. And a man in my position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous.

1. So, did anyone see David Ross go all Nadia Comaneche?

2. Congrats Terry! My group of parent/friends views those who go for three as hearty pioneers who could cross the prarie in a covered wagon.

3. GoBears, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm surprised you used the phrase "apropros of nothing." That phrase has always struck me as (i) wasteful filler and (ii) generally not accurate, since something tends to have prompted the comment, both qualities I view you as strongly disliking.

I think I speak for everyone when I say, Thank G-d we get seven more year of baseball on Fox. It's only too bad that every game can't be on Fox. Not that I don't care, at all, what this old lady thinks. It's just that I wouldn't mind watching the game, instead.

One of my brothers has four kids. He says the key is to play a zone.

Hey, we have three kids. Just took them hiking in the Albion Basin up above the Alta ski resort. Beautiful wildflowers. Do I get a medal?

Oh, and Tim Salmon just hit HR #297 -- he may get to 300 yet!

The crowd at the Buick Open is doing the wave.

The announcer said they must be "underachievers that have had a lot of liquor."

Really , that's what he said.

53, as a practicing synthetic organic chemist, I can say that we do not tend to use baseball metaphors any more than the rest of the population in the context of our work. Thus, "I hit a home run with that reaction", or "I really struck out with that synthetic plan" are heard with as much frequency in the lab as they are in any workplace.
We also tend to use "chemistry" in its metaphorical sense to describe relationships between people, as in "our lab has good chemistry" etc. with some degree of irony. As I am getting married in two weeks to another chemist, I anticipate hearing this next line quite a bit at the reception.
The one significant difference is that chemists tend to use baseball metaphors less in a sexual context (e.g. "I got to second base last night") than most people. I don't think I need to elaborate here, as you can probably imagine why this might be true.

Thanks for asking.

I think Sam can't wait for all the Nats games to show up on Comcast.

And on September 1, he will say, "We were waiting for this?"

The announcer said they must be "underachievers that have had a lot of liquor."

even when I'm liquired up I don't do the wave.(wow he said that)

The running joke out here has been that the Lerners tried to stretch the dispute out as long possible so people wouldn't, you know, see what the team is doing.

73
This now brings the total of people I've interacted with who are synthetic organic chemists to two.

My sister-in-law is one.

75 I actually found the "underachiever" thing pretty obnoxious. I mean, for one thing, they all manged to get tickets to a major golf tournament, that's not nothing. And organzing a golf crowd into the wave is also a sort of accomplishment, whether one thinks it good or evil.

And it's also just not a nice thing to say about people you don't know.

73 Any views on Floyd Landis?

68. 'Twas meant ironically, insofar as my point was in fact apropos of discussions of the Baez trade(s). Poor writing on my part to not make that clear. Perhaps I should have written "Apropos of something" to make the transition more obviously sarcastic. Because I agree with you - it's a phrase used too often and incorrectly.

But just for that, Sam, I'm gonna have another Marty burger for lunch today. I'll see if I can get a double patty this time!

80 If you're feeling bold, they're noted for their combo -- burger and hot dog together on one bun!

And I won't get into the whole chili-cheese-fry issue.

78--And it's also just not a nice thing to say about people you don't know.

it also has alot to do how everything unfoiled.... I don't know Golf but I'm willing to give him the benefit out the doubt.

80 And, to be honest, I was skimming through pretty quickly which probably resulted in my missing the point more than your usage did.

Sam DC,

If you want a chemist's perspective, I think Derek Lowe would be a better person to ask:

http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2006/08/01/testosterone_carbon_isotopes_and_floyd_landis.php

PS Couldn't resist the irony.

Congrats to Terry A!

22 - The personalities I work with definitely affect how I do my job. However, as far as the success or failure of my team or department or staff goes, that predominantly depends on talent. Personality is just a small factor, and it partly can be measured through performance, anyway.

3- Bluetahoe, I'm still worried that you're deliberately trying to bait people - for example with today's use of the word genius - in bold - to describe Colletti. It's one thing to like him, but you seem almost determined to provoke extreme reactions. Am I wrong?

81. Oh my... I think I just felt an artery close. Be right back...

Gameday beat Josh today, but it's just the normal righty pitcher lineup that we've seen since the deadline.

55- a dog, a cat, a FISH?

This Joe Buck/ Rex Hudler pairing on Fox is a special kind of awful.

Has an infielder ever dropped a popup subject to the infield fly rule on purpose, just for fun? Or to bait one of the runners? I think that's what I would do.

84 Thanks for that. Fascinating, and the Lowe thing is pretty fun.

For thoes who didn't click though, an excerpt:

you can also get C-11 if you have access to a particle accelerator

Chemistry geek humor.

89

it's all in the eyes of the beholder (but I see you're point) I like Rex he's my kind of guy.

I don't mean to make this thread another burger-centric one, but The Shack in Playa del Rey offers a hamburger with a hot dog on it too. It's called the Shackburger strangely enough.

92 That's the first Hudler compliment I've ever seen.

84 Back when I was working as a biotech researcher I used to read Derek Lowe's "In the Pipeline" blog all the time; thanks for the reminder.

Funny I hadn't made the connection to the Dodgers' pitcher by the same name.

94

sorry, my brian likes how he does his commenting.

Here's another Hudler compliment. I think he'd be perfect as a game show host. With some practice, he could even be Regis Philbin's successor.

81 93

Just got back. Now THIS is quality. Dee-lish.

Anyone seen Miami Vice yet? I expect it's terrible, but my wife wants to see it (early 80s nostalgia, I suspect). Any reviews? Xeifrank? Anyone?

The Cynthia McKinney vs. Hank Johnson debate is starting on CSPAN, right now. Don't know if anybody would care, but I'd want to know, if I didn't.

99
In addition to my disbelief that people will keep paying to see rehashed "superhero" movies, I also can't believe that people keep paying to see old TV shows rehashed into movies.

D4P only likes movies based on PowerPoint slide shows.

101- Actually, I meant to tell you: I watched the Walmart movie you recommended a while ago. Well, I watched the first half hour. Didn't really do it for me. It would have killed any of those people to smile?

92-

Rex is second only to McCarver as the worst commentator I've ever heard.

Question for historians or anyone else who knows--

Who was the pitcher when a batter said a pitch sounded fast? I think this was years back.

Thanks

Game thread is open.

101-

As a film nut, I can't believe that people pay to see 99% of the stuff that comes out.

105 Nolan Ryan?

105 Walter Johnson

105

That's been attributed to a lot of hitters and several pitchers, including Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, and Nolan Ryan.

99 I've seen it, and my opinion's pretty mixed. But I don't think it's accurate to simply think of it as "just another studio studio making a TV show into a movie". Michael Mann, who exec-produced the original VICE show, is the director and while character names are the same, it's a very different film than the TV show -- or rather, it's the themes of the original show but revisited for the 21st century.

The film's very brooding, rather dark, rather minimalist, with not a lot of exposition or character development -- you're left to figure things out. It's actually a very languid movie, with jolts of sporatic (and fairly graphic) violence, but it's light on the overall action. Really, it's closer to a mood piece than anything else.

If you've liked Mann's other movies (HEAT, COLLATERAL, etc) I suspect you'll like VICE, or at least find parts of it interesting and/or worthwhile. It didn't really work for me -- but it's worth checking out if you're a fan of the director or the genre.

105 I've heard a similar anecdote but it involved the ump calling a strike and the batter telling him he thought the pitch had sounded a little low. The pitcher, I believe, was Walter Johnson.

Yeah, like I had a chance of beating Bob. Hehehe

Another question, this from Thursday's game--

After the game on DT there was talk about a "shuto" (best be careful spelling that). Was it the pitch Saito ended the game with?

And it's a blend of a sinker and screwball? Or?

73

Actually, I'm a synthetic organic chemist, too, and I did use baseball metaphors when I taught organic (mostly when discussing mnemonics for R and S stereochemistry).

114 Russell Martin says it's a cut fastball, "but different." Others have had different definitions of it. At this point, all that I'm certain of is that it's confusing.

Whatever a "shuto" or "shuuto" is, apparently it's something you have take on faith.