I think jonnie w is on record as stating at one point he thought this team might lose as many games as last season....... and I 100% agreed. After that 1-13 stretch there was nothing to lead me to believe the Dodgers would bounce back.

I was ready to trade the Saito's, Lofton's etc.. for some decent prospects and so was everyone else on here. Fortunately, our GM didn't see it that way. He didn't sell sell sell. He just went out and improved the ball club. Kudos to Ned for not waiting till '07.

I'm still ready to trade the lofton's of the world for prospects, unfortunately its too late.
So are we going to win the world series?
If not then why not trade the lofton's of the world for the future?

False generalization, boldly rendered. There were commenters here who didn't think the deficit was insurmountable.

And Colletti did sell some players. He sold Aybar and Izturis and Guzman, whom a significant number of commenters here liked. Some even wanted Perez here next year.

Look at the Mets rotation. Martinez and then what. Glavine? Maddux is as good as him. Trachsel, Hernandez? Puh-leez.

We've just seen Cruz and Ledee go for nothing or next-to-nothing. I don't get the sense that you think Lofton is much better than those guys. Couldn't part of the rationale for keeping Lofton be that he's more valuable than what he'd return in trade?

I don't mind trading Lofton, but I have to admit I've probably overvalued him in the trade market. Teams are desperate for pitchers. They're not desperate for outfielders, from what I can tell.

Timely hitting, good pitching, excellent defense...when Lugo throws behind the runner rounding 3rd, he is out in the rundown, then they almost get the trailing runner at 2nd...

They are playing and making plays like a winning team...yes, I know they are winning, but its great to see...

I just hope it lasts...

8 - Options are related to service time. You can call up a player multiple times in a year - that's still just one option.

Now that that's out of the way, perhaps Matt Kemp for one night until Nomar is activated tomorrow? Kind of a "just in case"....

This season has been ebbing and flowing like the great typhoon of '44.

Some GM's are dumb and value speed over whatever cruz and ledee offer (some power and as good of obp as lofton, maybe not as good of obp right now today but that could change easily).
My point (whether or not anyone agrees) is that the dodgers are not going to win the world series, so why not sell for the future (and i'm not talking about selling what is valuable in our future, A.K.A saito).
Some were talking about selling some valuable players that we can use in the future like saito, i disagree about selling them.

Say the Dodgers had your favorite GM, whoever that would be. Say they had the best GM in the world. If they couldn't get meaningful prospects for Lofton, is there a point in trading him?

No, but i'd still rather have cruz or ledee over lofton.

Pitchers (11) - Beimel, Billingsley, Broxton, Carrara, Hendrickson, Lowe, Maddux, Penny, Saito, Sele, Tomko

Catchers (2) - Hall, Martin

Infielders (7) - Betemit, Furcal, Kent, Loney, Lugo, Martinez, Saenz

Outfielders (4) - Drew, Ethier, Lofton, Repko

Lofton's not as bad as you make him out to be.

I'm kind of sad to see Ledee go, but Cruz.....meh, those K's, weak grounders to the right side, and infield pop ups drove me bonkers. Good riddance.

And the biggest problem with your argument, as it has been pointed out, is that trading someone like Lofton will probably not get us anyone who makes us a World Series winner in the near future, by your criteria.

As far as Saito as trade bait, isn't he on a one year deal? Is he arbitration eligible after this year?

On Friday-Hendrickson would be scheduled to pitch to the HATED ONES. Would we rather have Sele pitch at home or do we just have to cross our fingers that Hendy doesn't get crushed?!

Also, it's amazing how these thing work out by coincidence(?), but ESPN must be salivating over Joe Morgan go on about Greg Maddux on Sunday Night Baseball.

I said i disagreed with people who talked about trading valuable pieces in our future A.K.A saito.

I am still having a lot of fun with this win streak and would love a deep Dodger run into the playoffs. Sure, I would be crushed when they lose and I would hope that they win, but I wouldn't want to not live that experience.

My philosophy,: if you can't win it all then try to improve your future.

And the biggest problem with your argument, as it has been pointed out, is that trading someone like Lofton will probably not get us anyone who makes us a World Series winner in the near future, by your criteria.

Who says we have to trade lofton alone?
How about in a package with other(s) that have no future with the dodgers?

Say you offered Lofton + Ledee to the Mets. What would you expect back in return? Maybe there's a chance you get a worthwhile prospect, but I'm skeptical.

Say you offered lofton, hendrickson or sele, and a prospect that in my opinion has no future on the dodgers (young for example) or a prospect who has a future on the dodgers but is part of the old fashioned baseball thinking, all glove no bat (hu for example).

Vegas is in New Orleans (although today's a bizarre game off in the middle of the series), so that could prevent them from calling someone up for just one game. Unless they want to do something really crazy, like call up Tommy Giles, only 24 men will be available tonight.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/loftoke01.shtml

Kim's faced the dodgers 3 times this year:
May 16th:
7ip, 4h, 1ER, 5BB, 5K

May 22nd (his next start following 5/16):
6ip, 6h, 1ER (3R), 2BB, 2K

June 9th (following a 5/28 start v. SF):
6ip. 8h, 3ER, 3BB, 5K

Our new hitters haven't faired well against Kim. Lugo is 0-8 with 5Ks. Hall is 0-3, and I don't believe Betemit has faced Kim this season.

The good news is that while seeing him in 3 of his 4 consecutive starts back in May/June, we seemed to figure him out. The bad news is that its been roughly 2 months since we've seen him, and our additions haven't fared well against him.

I wouldn't be opposed to sitting Lugo tonight, moving Kent back to 2nd, and giving Saenz and his .357 avg in 14ABs against Kim the start.

Lofton 18.1
Kent 18.0

This does not factor in defense.

When I started seriously following baseball in the 80s, I remember 24-man rosters being the norm until a collective bargaining agreement changed it to 25 sometime in the late 80s/early 90s.

This NY Times archive from 1986 sheds some light:

http://tinyurl.com/j2oa6

Um, the mets just claimed ledee, i'm sure they would take lofton over ledee.
Could they use a pitcher (and sorry i should have used more examples than just hendrickson or sele, maybe included beimel, carrara ect. take your pick mets).
A prospect not considered a prospect?, hello, hu is being touted as the next izturis with a little better bat.

The key to this proposed trade seems to be the outgoing prospect, not Lofton.

When I picture "Izturis with a better bat", I see Cesar holding one of those fancy newfangled double-walled aluminum things.

Do you honestly think the Mets are going to give us anything for Beimel or Carrara, players we picked up off waivers ourselves this season?

I don't really understand why there is so much discussion about Lofton. He has done excatly what was hoped for this season--hit .300, steal bases, play bad defense. He is 40 years old, and has no trade value. At this point in his career, he will keep signing one-year deals with a different team every offseason, until he can't hit .300 or steal bases anymore.

No one gave us a chance in '88, and the same could be said of a few World Series participants in recent years. I think there's a case to be made for doing what you can to get there, then hoping the team gets hot.

Of course, if we'd traded Gibby and Hershiser in '88, we could have gotten some terrific prospects...

Not interested...

I understand he got up in the 8th when we were only up by 3, but I feel like I've seen him up more nights in the pen than not.

I'm just hoping he doesn't hit a wall come Sept. A healthy Dessens who can come in and throw 2+ inings at a time should help.

My personal choice would be for Loney to start at first tonight, given Kim's righty/lefty splits. If I'm reading the MLB stats correctly, Kim has a 1.86 WHIP against lefties, 1.22 against righties. Difference is even more dramatic away from Coors. Lefties are also slugging .472, with .403 OBP against Kim.
Of course, that means that we'll see Kent at first, Lugo at second, Ramon Martinez at third and Repko in center :)

Jeff Kent
Runs Created (simple formula (Runs+RBI)-HRs) - 74

Regular Stat line: .270/.370/.465
RISP: .343/.479/.529
RISP w/2 out: .412/.583/.706

Kenny Lofton
RC - 75
Regular: .305/.355/.408
RISP: .323/.352/.462
RISP w/2 out: .276/.323/.345

Kent is more balanced when it comes to runs scored and RBI but Lofton does do his share of getting hits with runners on base.

When you look at VORP, there is no question that Jeff Kent is the best option the Dodgers have and even in limited work, Kent ranks 12th in the MLB at second base.

Kenny Lofton also ranks right around there, 13th in MLB in VORP in CF but both Matt Kemp and Jason Repko, with VORP of 7 and 6.7 in about 35% of Lofton's PAs, so its possible that both of those players could provide the same value, better defense and more power, certainly in Kemp's case.

But the total team value in VORP in CF is 31.8, only Arizona's is higher in the division with Byrnes and DaVanon.

Broxton had only thrown 38 pitches this month before Monday's game (16 on Sunday). I think he was perfectly fine for an inning.

We'll lose to the Mets, but the Mets seem to be able to hit grand slams even with the bases empty. Hard to stop that juggernaut.

More reasons why lofton should never have been a dodger.

Bako
Valentin
W. Alvarez
Weaver
Phillips
A. Perez
Bradley
Driefort
D. Sanchez
Schmoll
E. Jackson
Choi
Seo
Navarro
O. Perez
Alomar
Izturis
Guzman
Aybar
Baez
Ledee
Cruz

I'm also not ready to give up on Hu. I think I've heard Logan White speak very favorably of him, and if he's a domninant defender at SS, I'd be happy with average offense. We have no reason to assume he's a below average hitter.

I think this team could get to the WS if it makes the playoffs. There are no great pitching staffs in the NL. Penny/Lowe/Maddux could match up pretty well with any other top 3 in the league and Broxton and Saito are pretty solid in the pen. I wouldn't like our chances against the White Sox or Tigers, but I wouldn't mind getting the chance to face them.

From Rotowire:
Joel Guzman, of, Devil Rays (Triple-A Durham)
The 21-year-old looks lost since the trade that sent him to the Devil Rays. He is 3-for-19 with no walks and seven strikeouts for the Bulls and his elite prospect status is starting to come into question. It is still too early to give up on Guzman and he certainly has talent, but if he is going to be a left fielder, Carl Crawford's job in Tampa does not look to be in danger anytime soon.

By the end of the week he'll probably have bashed several homeruns and this silly sample size will be rendered moot as well the Lugo comparison when he settles down with his new club and continues his best offensive season.

And I think there's something of a consensus about his defense.

He's not great. He's not terrible. He's mediocre.

Bingo!
And that's what i've always called him, a mediocre veteran.

C - Bako
C - Phillips
C - Navarro
C - Alomar
1B - Choi
2B - A. Perez
2B - Aybar
SS - Izturis
3B - Valentin
3B - Guzman
LF - Ledee
CF - Bradley
RF - Cruz
SP - W. Alvarez
SP - Weaver
SP - E. Jackson
SP - Seo
SP - O. Perez
RP - Driefort
RP - D. Sanchez
RP - Schmoll
RP - Baez

Trading Lofton wouldn't bother me much; trading Saito for prospects, on the other hand, would really feel like throwing in the towel. I would hate to see that.

Its obvious you are talking about me, you didn't have to try to hide it.

Wrong about what?
730-740 ops prediction, yes lofton is currently above that slightly, but most of the season he has been right in the prediction and sometimes below and sometimes above.

So again, wrong about what?

In the majors he has only played LF. I ask because if either Lugo or Loney is pressed into service as an OF, their inexperience suggests they should be put in LF (especially Loney). And if Ethier can't move positions then whenever Drew has an off day -- or gets hurt -- we'd be forced to play both Repko and Lofton for 9 innings.

From Keith Law's article:

.........

There are three kinds of waivers in MLB:

Unconditional release waivers. These are self-explanatory. A player on release waivers can be claimed for $1, and the claiming team assumes the player's contract. The player does have the right to refuse this claim and become a free agent.
Outright or special waivers. The name changes depending on the time of year, but the effect is the same. These are the waivers you use to kick a player off of your 40-man roster. They're also the waivers to use when you wish to send a player who is out of options to the minors (thereby also removing him from your 40-man). These waivers are irrevocable, meaning that if you place a player on outright waivers and he is claimed, you can not pull the player back off waivers.
Major league waivers. These are the waivers in question during August. Between 4 pm on July 31st and the end of the season, players must clear major league waivers to be assigned to another major league club. These waivers are revocable, and they are also the waivers required for players in Choi's situation, who have options remaining but are more than three calendar years removed from their debuts on major league rosters. Although these waivers are revocable, if a player on major league waivers is claimed and the waiver request is revoked, a subsequent major league waiver request in the same waiver period will be irrevocable.

You come across as though Kenny's holding this team back. Kenny's costing us wins. Maybe I'm misreading you. I don't know.

I knew lofton would take away valuable playing time from our youngsters even before the season started.

so again, wrong about what?

Definitely need pitching though -- only 9 of them. Baez as the closer?

And that only addresses offense. Had Lofton missed the season, I don't think we would have had much trouble finding a player of league average offensive skills and better defense.

Repko? Please

So who is that stud prospect CF that was stunted when Lofton signed his one year deal?

About making Kenny Lofton out to be worse than he really is.

Lets see. kenny has about 18 SB's and he's been caught 3 times(?) 18-3=15.

Why not add 15 bases to his total bases, and recalcualte his OPS then.

IF we get to the playoffs, it seems to me that there are 2 NL teams that are clearly better than the Dodgers - NY and StL. Given a little luck, and a hot team in October, I think we could get through one of those teams, but not both. I also don't think that that scenario (playing one of the two) is possible unless one of the big 2 is upset in a first round series, or the Cards fail to win the Central. The Mets will automatically play the WC winner because it won't be from their divsion, and they'll have the best record.

Maybe the best scenario for us is to win the WC and get the Mets in the short series and hope that StL is upset. In any case, lotsa luck, and getting there is no done deal.

By all means i'm no expert on trade value, but i'm skeptical about that he doesn't.
He's been traded a billion times before and is putting up ops numbers about the same as he has in recent years, excluding last season's (what i call fluke season).

I'll repost this--

Do you want Felix Rodriquez in exchange for Lofton? Or do you want Jose Hernandez back? Or Bobby Hill? Because those are the players that Lofton has been traded for over the past few seasons.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/loftoke01.shtml

even though it's not shown on prime/fox the games on prime/fox air late at night some times.

Extra Innings is going to be showing the Rockies broadcast however.

May God have mercy on your souls if you are watching that.

In other words I am with those who say, just get us there and let's see what happens.

If the WC winner (say the Reds) has a better record than the NL west winner, does the NL west winner then play the Mets?

The ones I can't stand are Grace/Brenneman.
I don't care for the Giants broadcasters either.

On a different note. John Sickel's minor league sight has an interesting discussion on Betemit. It seems like most of the prospect guys love him and think Colletti ripped off the Braves.

Kemp - how could anyone know before the season he was going to hammer ML pitching for about a month?

Bradley - C'mon. Imagine if we kept Bradley. Bradley's been hurt half the season and we wouldn't have Ethier. We'd be 15 below .500 right now if that trade wasn't made.

I don't see how these 3 examples justify Kenny bashing.

or alternately

4) Continue to rant about the merits a a so-so outfielder who won't be back next year anyway.

It's amusing that this post didn't get more attention.

As for Lofton taking away playing time for kids, I think Grady's doing just fine. Kemp IIRC was no great defender in CF, and he probably needs more seasoning anyhow. There's no sense in burning through all his service time before he's truly ready. And while Lofton's defense is dreadful, Kemp's according to Rate2 the last time I checked was even worse. He needs to work on his defense in AAA. And Repko, of course, was on the DL for the longest time.

WWSH

the negativity here right now with some people is remarkable. enjoy the moment guys!

Thanks to his defense and empty batting average, Lofton has been worth 1.6 wins over replacement this year, I don't fault someone for wanting better.

For the AL, I had to put up two different scenarios since the wild card would be either the White Sox or the Red Sox and the White Sox can't play the Tigers in the Division Series.

But in the NL, the wild card spot is shared by the Dodgers and Reds and both can play the Mets, so it's a little simpler. It's not likely that the wild card will come out of the NL East unless the Phillies get really hot. And the Phillies play the Mets a lot this month.

I am really in a tough spot here. I feel like I now have to come in and make peace on about a daily basis.

Some people seem to be offended if they are disagreed with, and out come the snide remarks. Agree to disagree, or disagree politely, has been thrown out the window.

I'm not up for policing the site this actively every day. So what's it going to be? Can everyone here make an extra effort to be nice? Or do I start banning people more aggressively, even people that are good citizens 90 percent of the time. Let me know what you prefer.

In the end, Lofton has a one year deal, Kemp has done a good job of working on pitch recognition and he will certainly be up in September.

Kemp and to a lesser degree Cruz, were the utility outfielders, both making starts at various spots, while the other three played LF (Ethier), CF (Lofton) and RF (Drew).

My point still stands, show me how easy it is to find a league average CF as others have said it is. We could have had Corey Patterson for a song but the noise level directed at Ned if he'd taken that gamble would have made the Baez trade look like childs play.
Matos - Nada
Damon - unavailable
Crisp - cost you a top prospect
Wells - unavailable
Balldelli- hurt
Gathright - cost you a top prospect and he's lousy
Rowand - cost you a Thome
Hunter - 10 million
Granderson - unavailable
DeJesus - unavailable
B Anderson - yuck
Erstad- yuck
Kostay - expensive and is he really better then Lofton?
Figgins - unavailable
J Reed - yuck
Gary Mathews Junior - the best deal of the bunch but again DT posters would have cried like crazy if we'd planned on him being our starting CF.

Done with the American, I expect the same holds true for the NL. Good Centerfielders are not falling off trees which is why if Matt Kemp can play the position were that much better off then our competition.

moral of the rant: grow your own! :)

I hear ya.
I'll bow out.
Sorry.

That is how I view work, unless you can be frank and not hurt by critiques, you better find something that you will never screw up in.

Same thing here, I could say something like based on the run differentials (Runs scored vs. Runs allowed), the Dodgers had underachieved all here and that perhaps we are finally seeing performance match their stats (actually I thank Rob Neyer for saying something similar today in his chat).

Someone could challenge this by saying that the Dodgers have a horrible record in close games and teams with winning records and they piled up their runs during this streak against poor teams.

Both are true and both have statistical backup.

And I could respond to that and go back and forth. But the exchange has to be civil or else what is the point of spending time here.

I hope we can all enjoy the team, the season and this site, but we have to stop this bickering.

Kotsay is way better than Lofton since he can catch the ball. Other than that, I pretty much agree, except the Dodgers had other options:

Move Drew to center
Keep Bradley

Now, keeping Bradley in hindsight is a terrible idea, but given how hard it is to find a good centerfielder, holding on to him certainly isn't a bad idea. Moving Drew to center a getting someone like Craig Wilson seems like a much better plan.

The idea that if you think you won't be winning the world series means you must sell and not try to make the playoffs is, there's no nice word to say, it's nonsense. There's just too much money involved in playoff shares, playoff ticket sales, playoff concession sales, playoff tv income, etc.

No one on this board would ever think that way if they were actually running a team. They'd be fired before thay had a chance to defend themselves.

So the difference between Ethier and Bradley is 16 games (prorated to 23 for a full season)?
Wow, apparently Ethier is Babe Ruth and Bradley is Mario Mendoza.

This is the sort of pulling-numbers-out-of-the-sky that makes meaningful discussion impossible.

Any team not already mathematically eliminated still has a chance to win the WS this year. But any GM or manager who bases his decisions on "well, anything can happen, so who's to say...." is probably doing a disservice.

So all of these examples of "miracles" from the past, while nice as nostalgia, are lousy guides to the future.

To say that Lofton is a league-average hitter with horrible defense and an important defensive position is perfectly consistent with saying that he's hurting the team by playing so much (especially if it's true that he's better with more rest).

But this is all just silly semantic one-upsmanship. Because MB's OTHER mantra is much more important, namely "Pitching pitching pitching pitching pitching."

On that, IFF Penny/Lowe/Maddux pitch like they have in the last 2 weeks, then I agree that the Dodgers have a decent shot at winning a playoff series. But it's foolish to expect that their average performance over the next 2 months can stay at the level of their season-best performance over the past 2 weeks. They'll regress some, and the Dodgers will start losing as often as they win. That might be enough to win the division.

It's weird. I formed my attachment to the Dodgers while living in New Jersey in 1961, when there wasn't even a National League team in New York. The only local TV games were the Yankees (although admittedly it was a great season to be watching them). The only time I've ever seen more than a handful of regular season games in a given season were the years when I had cable and the Braves were still in the NL West. That's why I want them to make the playoffs even if the likelihood of their making the WS is low. I'll at least get to see some games on TV.

Growing up a Dodgers fan in NYC in the 1980's, my main connection to the team was Sports Phone (976-1313). They would update every fifteen minutes, and during the summer, I would stay up late, watching Star Trek and The Twillight Zone on our small B&W TV set, calling Sports Phone every quarter of an hour. It was wonderful! (Until the day my father looked at the phone bill and wondered why our family made more phone calls between the hours of 11PM-7AM then we did during the entire rest of the day!)

If you were a client of Northern Trust's, I could probably get you into our box for one of those games.

That's like Lisa Simpson calling the Cory Hotline all the time.

I wonder if that episode makes sense to younger people today.

Someone call a librarian.

I'll just add that it's not my opinion that Kenny Lofton is that big a deal, either way.

Still, it's reasonable to expect better considering CF is a position where good defense is fairly key, we came into the season with everyone basically knowing that we would not be a powerful team, yet picked up Lofton anyway, who adds no power.

Again, not a huge deal, but it's not out of the question to be a little wistful for a better option.

looking from a far the bickering is pretty cool.

but I see you're point.

It's my opinion that Ethier + Lofton = 8 more wins at this stage in the season than a half a season of Milton Bradley, at this point.

Would I trade Bradley for Lofton straight up right now? YES No brainer.

I know I don't post often, but I have read this site and most comments almost daily for over a year now. I would love to see DT become a place where one can take a strong position and face dissent that might be equally strong, but would above all be civil. We should all act like this is one big cocktail party, and make your arguments accordingly. Chances are, no one would get shouted down for wanting to trade Lofton if we were all huddled around a keg.

Bradley's an .830+ OPS'ing CF'er that also plays great defense.

If Ethier continues to play a corner OF position, Bradley will be more valuable in the coming seasons strictly bc he plays CF, and Ethier doesnt.

Smart teams do not dump valuable commodities. A CF'er, that does what Bradley does, is rare and valuable.

Ethier, while having a great season, is still a corner OF'er and its much easier to find those types of guys to put up similar numbers.

I am sure that we will continue to hear that the Dodgers wanted Lugo because they felt they needed a MLB replacement level player because they have not had a moment this year when all 4 projected starters in the infield have been completely healthy.

If they reach that point with Nomar, Jeff, Raffy and Wilson, then they get a problem that Ned will like and Grady will have to deal with but until that day comes, that will be the mantra from the Front office.

Kemp might be able to make me forget Bradley. I hope so.

Lofton doesnt do it.
Ethier doesnt do it either (mainly bc he's a corner guy and those guys are easier to find).

I'd still go with Andre Ethier. The kids a stud and right now he's better than Milton Bradley.

Perfect balance between stats, easy action, quick-playing, could play versus a friend, could make your own parks/teams/players, saved stats that you could print out, plus it had that certain intangible something that made each player feel... well, a real individual person.

In 141 games for the Dodgers in 2004 he OPS'd .786.

In 75 games for the Dodgers in 2005 he OPS'd .835.

Milton Bradley wasn't overly-exceptional as a Dodger.

Hopefully Kemp fixes that mis-evaluation of talent.

Of course, Bradley might be a free agent at the end of the year, so hopefully the Dodgers sign him back. Wouldnt that be something? Use Bradley to get Ethier, and then get Bradley back the very next season. Thats the type of savvy move that Ned can make to win back some support.

Now that I'm on summer vacation and not teaching (big smile), I've been spending oodles of time with the wife and kid and having a blast. I've been letting loose with the appetite, being careless with my time and body... it's summer! And I've been a little loose with the salty language. Now, when my son screws up with the language (very rare), we have a deal that we take something away from him. If it's a small screw up, the cookies go. If it's bigger than that, the video games followed by a scene that would embarass Carmen. Anywho... I cursed today in the car while talking to the wife and the kid caught me. It was an off-hand "F" bomb but from the silence in the backseat, I knew I was busted and it was time to punish dad. My three favorite things this summer have been television, internet and computer chess (which I play horribly, by the by). I told him to pick one and what does the little so-and-so come up with?

"Dad? No Dodgers today! And no Greg Maddux for you!"

The wife added, helpfully, that maybe next time I'll think about not cursing.

So... why this story? Because of post 129. Let's say you want to go negative on a guy because he disagrees with your take on the sport of baseball and on the Dodgers specifically. Let's say, in spite of many pleas from the site coordinator, you just can't keep it in check and you click "submit" and off it goes. Now, let's say your punishment for ignoring the umpteenth warning about being negative was suspension or banishment from the site. We haven't gotten to that point but please, y'all, you think it's not being considered?

It's not about all of you. Heck, it's not nearly about most of you. But to some of of you, if you want to talk baseball with smart, interesting people who happen to be funny and incisive in their comments this is the place. If you want flame wars (or even flame skirmishes) there are a multitude of sites to visit.

It's not about being negative about the team. It's about being negative to each other. It has to stop now.

See? We don't need a set of rules on the sidebar. The above is crystal clear. If you can't abide by it, I'm sorry, but I won't miss you.

End of lecture.

Now, of course all of his personality issues always cloud that and are used for reasons of why teams move him but if you just look at the stats, he does not have a good record.

There is no question about his talent but until he does again for a 130 games or more, I'm not sure of the investment in him.

Interestingly, J.D. Drew gets more heat about his injuries but Bradley does have at least a similar if not less reliable history.

On the other comment about LFs, again, outside of 2004 and the years that Sheffeld patrolled that area 1999-2001, the Dodgers have had problems in LF, last year was a disaster, so while I agree in principle that it should be easier to find corner outfielders, that is not something the Dodgers have proven over time.

We have seen firsthand how tough it can be to even get a sniff of the Series. I think we've got one now, and we should inhale as deeply as we can.

(wow, that metaphor sucked.)

In a divorce petition filed in late June, Paul Lo Duca's estranged wife accused the Mets' catcher of infidelity. His passion for horses has caused him to wrack up heavy gambling debts, according to a report in the New York Daily News.

Lo Duca brushed off the allegations made by 34-year-old Sonia Lo Duca — a former Playboy model — and spent a carefree day at Saratoga Race Track.

The rules of this site should be spelled out clearly, and anyone who violates them should be banned for some length of time. If the rules are not posted, however, it makes no sense, nor is it fair, to ban people who treat the site well 90% of the time.

Loney did see some time in left field in Vegas, but not a lot; Lugo has not played the outfield for several seasons but is capable.

This is a three-week situation, as Kemp will be up on Sept. 1, if not earlier.

Give me a guy that is capable of making a difference, and then I'll hope he's healthy. Not the guy thats always healthy, but doesnt make a difference.

And Ethier's 1 HBP to his wrist away from being Werth. So with injuries, you never know.

But injuries shouldnt preclude a team from signing a difference making player. Look at the A's. Tell them Frank Thomas doesnt make a difference. Tell them that Jason Kendall does. One's had injuries, the other is an everyday iron man...However, the guy thats hurt sometimes still is a better guy to have on the team, rather than a guy like Kendall who plays everyday, but does nothing of consequence.

I don't think Ned needs to win back support at all -- his moves have generally been applauded by baseball pundits, the fans, and Dodger ownership. Obviously people are happy because the team is winning right now, and things could change, but the only complaints I'm hearing are either from more stat-oriented people (here on DT or elsewhere on the web) and crazy ones like trading Izturis was a terrible move.

Given the fact that Ethier has had a tremendously good year -- far more than anyone expected -- also means that I think you're in the strong minority to prefer Bradley at this point. Ethier may be lucky to this point, but until he goes into a tailspin (and Bradley continues his red-hot hitting), I think you're tilting at windmills, to some degree.

I'd say less than 15% of Dodger fans want Bradley back. I have no statistical evidence to back up my claim. Just a hunch. I feel Neddie would lose support if he brought Milton back next season. Actually, I'm sure of it.

I really wanted to like the FPS Baseball games, but when I discovered that its system made walks totally random events, I discarded it.

If you were a client of Northern Trust's, I could probably get you into our box for one of those games.

I interviewed with them in January, at their location right off Canal Street. I was impressed. Looks like a really nice place to work. I loved their building and location. Really easy access.

181 Anything can happen, but only one thing will happen. Not every possible outcome has a high probability of occurring, or anything approaching an equal probability.

In 1988, an exceedingly unlikely series of events took place, resulting in a happy outcome for the likes of us. But planning to win the lottery is bad management.

The line used to be that the NL West is so bad (or at least, so evenly matched) that the Dodgers might as well go for it, and get into the playoffs. That was the logic I objected to when it was used to justify things like Guzman for Lugo (I don't necessarily mean here, but in general).

But that line has morphed in the last few weeks, replacing "NL West" with "NL." If that's correct, if one really thinks that getting into the playoffs means a reasonable (not to say "even") chance of making the WS, where it's first to 4, then the argument for short-term help over planning for the future is stronger.

But that leaves me with 2 questions.

1. Do we really believe that there aren't elite teams in the NL? The Mets and Cardinals spring to mind, but I'm willing to listen to arguments that they're really no better (or not much better) than the Dodgers.

2. In what way is Lugo short-term help? He's better than Izturis - we know that from their track records. But as someone pointed out, he might as well be Izturis so far. Same number, same offense, same defense. Just not as cuddly. More to the point, just like Izturis, he's extraneous.

The latest tally:

Betemit/Aybar
Lugo/Izturis
Maddux/Guzman

The last one is the one that jumps out at you as a typical short-term deadline deal. I'm hopeful that it works out well.

The other changes have been:

Loney up, Cruz out.
Ledee back, then out.
Repko up, Baez gone.
Dessens in, Odalis out.

In general, I'd call those a net improvement on offense and pitching, to get rid of the Odalis horror show, and to get Loney up here, but only if he or Lugo really can take some of Lofton's ABs away.

Baseball games today are way too complicated, IMHO. I enjoy the spiffy graphics and the ability to play through seasons and career mode, but there was a simplicity and elegance to EWB that has never been replicated. If someone build a new PC/console game with the ease of EWB combined with today's graphics and career mode, that would be so insanely awesome my head might explode.

At the very least I would, sight unseen, buy the required console simply to play that (highly theoretical and unlikely) game.

I liked this line. But actually, as mere fans, that's all any of us are doing. It's not like anything we say here will affect anything the Dodgers do.

You know, it's not like any of us is Bill Plaschke...

In the meantime, anyone I'm thinking of suspending, short of the characters who come in here and post 20 profane messages in an hour, gets ample warning. There is no mystery about what the violation is. I think that's pretty fair.

If someone commits a crime only 10 percent of the time, I think that they are still subject to punishment.

I don't want to suspend anyone. But I'd rather have fewer commenters than see this place become a free-for-all. And what I see right now is some people making little effort to either debate in a professional way or turn the other cheek.

That is not a "logical" move at all. For being very risk-asserted, that is the type of high risk move that should not be made.

Too many high risk injury prone players on a team is playing russian roulette on having a successful season.

If Penarol is able to make it happen and you have an extra ticket, I'd appreciate consideration (you're first in line though, since you asked first). I'm starting my search for tix in Chgo after I get back from California. I'm looking for tix for Aug 28-30 at DS now.

Heh. That's pretty much the mission statement for my search for the perfect computer baseball game. High Heat is about as close as it gets, but even that is dated now.

I'll have to look for Dombrower's site. I had EWB for the Amiga, and I can still here the voicebox phonetically sounding out "Hen-er-y Ay-ron."

http://tinyurl.com/n8ym7

208 I probably should have posted this in my earlier comment. Eddie Dombrower's site is:

http://www.bangbangplay.com/

I don't think the solution is more policemen. I think the solution is better behavior.

(Or perhaps just burnish it?

And, FWIW, Lofton circa '94 would have been highly coveted on draft day.

For me, Bradley is too big an injury risk to spend a lot of money on, or block someone like Kemp. I agree that, before we got excited about Kemp, Drew to CF and go after a corner OF seemed like a much better idea than Lofton. In a way, Ethier's production (much better than we thought we'd get out of Werth/Cruz/Repko/Ledee) has made up for Lofton's mediocrity on offense (nothing makes up for dropped fly balls). So even if Ethier will regress, the point for 2006 is that it's all worked out pretty well for Colletti.

Pitching pitching pitching pitching pitching.

in reality...all you really have to do is do it once or twice, posters will see it could really happen, and they will behave...

kind of like in an office, occasionally you have to fire someone just to wake up everyone that they need to perform, that it's not a social club...

Absolutely, the solution is better behavior. However, I think it's practically a given (from my personal experiences on other forums as they've grown in popularity) that with a steady increase of new people, there will be a big increase in "behavior problems" -- all sorts of them, from trolls to newbies who aren't familiar with the rules yet to old veterans sniping in frustation at the 10,000th time a question is asked, to genuine dislike between different posters erupting. Invariably, all the sites I've frequently started out with one or two "founders" who used to completely oversee their forums with a small group of very civilized posters. These young fora were self-policing (as DT is and has been) but with spurts in popularity, became impossible to keep as such -- not through any malicious intent, but simply through the increase in population.

DT is a small quiet country town where everyone knows each other and the sheriff doesn't need to do much aside from occasionally making sure someone who got drunk at the tavern makes it back home. But it's rapidly growing towards being a small city, in which case you absolutely will need "more policemen", despite all efforts to ask people to remain on good behavior.

I've moderated other forums and completely understand the frustation in having to deal with this sort of thing... but I also don't think that it's avoidable.

Maybe I'm just cynical when it comes to 'net communities though.

Oops, i guess i glossed over that one. Yea, reading the comments section, it seemed that alot of them really like Betemit and his future- especially his bat at 2b.

If Nomar comes back and Lofton continues to play CF, doesn't that make the Lugo trade pointless? I can't imagine we'd make that trade just to have Lugo ride the pine. I don't really HATE Lofton, but I'd much rather have him on the bench than Lugo or Betemit.

I don't know how I feel about it. I'm not real sad to see Ledee go, but I'd much rather see Loney get his AB's in AAA.

If Nomar ends up out for longer, maybe we can work him into some 1B and OF time...

In the end, this very well maybe a deal that the fans point too as being a bad one but I just think the organization did not feel comfortable with either a AAA option or Izzy/Martinez/Saenz having to play everyday if Garciaparra and/or Kent were not available to play everyday.

I'm sure we will debate this and perhaps we will get some more rumblings from players not playing everyday if and when Garciaparra and Kent are out there everyday but that was always the most optimistic viewpoint and that was probably not the most prudent approach for the Dodgers to take a week ago.

well you just went on my jealous list (great read) :o)

I may have to steal that one some day.

So who's our Otis? Who's Barney Fife? Who's Gomer Pyle? Who's Thelma Lou? Who's Aunt Bee? Who's Opie?

I've got dibs on Floyd the Barber.

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/10736.html

So long Ricky Ledee, I'll miss ya, and appreciate your pinch hits, but... won't miss you all that much. I am glad Loney's sticking around. So, they're going to be short a player for a few days until Nomar's back? That seems odd, but since Loney and Lugo can both play the OF in a pinch, I guess they're okay.

Did anyone try to ask Roy Smith a question in his chat today?

"Stop fighting. Just stop fighting already. Mayberry should be better than this!! Waah!"

Or just one of those non-talking brothers who played in that bluegrass band, maybe the one who smoked the pipe.

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF (joins Steve Finley this year as the first 39-year-olds to log nine triples in a year since 1945)
Drew, RF
Kent, 2B (back to second for tonight)
Ethier, LF
Betemit, 3B
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Maddux, P

Has Josh been lurking on DT today?

I'm one of those frequent readers, infrequent posters who found DT during the heady days of the big LoDuca - Penny swap and have been lurking around ever since. I am probably part of the demographic that's transforming DT into a small city from it's past small town roots. Personally, I have always loved the fact that there aren't any rules posted for this site, but that the level of discourse manages to remain generally civil and could even be described as informative and scholarly (with a good mix of pop culture and obscure academic references). This is somewhat ironic since in real life I am a foul-mouthed cynic, but nothing is more depressing than most online sites where discussions quickly denigrate into vulgar exchanges of epithets and various colorful descriptions of human genitalia.

I have high hopes that DT can grow into that rare small city that retains it's small town charm. Hopefully, that can be done without Jon having to spend all of his time playing cyber-cop, while still allowing us to disagree, argue, belabor our points and beat several dead horses, make sarcastic wisecracks, and generally enjoy all of those things that brought us to this site in the first place. If I have any words of wisdom for the site, it would simply be - if you must attack - attack the idea or premise but not the person. The anonymity that internet message boards provide is a powerful tool, but it can obviously be abused. If you don't think you would be comfortable making your post in a face-to-face verbal conversation,than perhaps you should reconsider submitting it.

A man can dream, can't he?

http://simcity.ea.com/play/simcity_classic.php

Also, 255 reminds me of another Sierra hit: Jones in the Fast Lane. This was a much better game when I was 12 then it could possibly have really been, but I liked it very much.

By the way, the Mayberry character analysis reminds me of one of my favorite DT threads when we went into detail on the Cheers cast and who would play what role. I assume Jon was supposed to be Sam, but I can't really remember. I know that I really coveted the role of Harry the Magician/Swindler but I think someone beat me to it.

That statement, (the context was Coletti getting Bradley back), strongly suggests that somehow Coletti NEEDS to "win back some support." I'm confused. Where is it written (other than in your post) that Coletti's lost support, or even needs to win back support? That's an assumption masquerading as a fact. One can, and others here have, disagreed with the merits of reacquiring Bradley. I don't see how on a move that would definitely be controversial, gets Coletti back the support he's allegedly lost. I think you mean "your support", and respectfully, I think you should say so and not assume a few hundred (or thousands) of Dodger fans are on your bandwagon.

you're nick is pure genious (brings a smile on my face everytime) if you speak spanish you know what I'm talking about.

{{Sniff}} Didn't answer my question... but that's okay. A few other interesting answers in there, but nothing too revelatory.

One of the reasons I am very happy living in Utah, a short 3-4 hour drive from the Utah Shakespeare Festival, a really fantastic event. I highly recommend planning your vacation around a stay in either Cedar City, UT or Ashland, OR.

oh, and barry manilow rocks in concert.

Top 6TH B:1 S:0 O:2
With Mike Piazza batting, Brian Giles caught stealing 2nd base, catcher Paul Lo Duca to second baseman Jose Valentin.

Would you please have whoever's in charge of the internet flush out the tube to the Connecticut Secretary of State's website?

Thanks,
Andrew Shimmin

When I was a lad, I thought for a while I would be a professional gambler and make my living counting cards in blackjack.

What be these tubes of which you speak?

Sincerely,
Senator Steven's Chief of Staff

(You're right, though; the traffic must be fierce to that site this evening.)

http://www.nbc30.com/politics/9584234/detail.html

But no luck.

Although I have won six straight times in my buddies-in-the-basement home game. For our game, that's becoming a Dimaggio-esque story.

It's probably my greatest accomplishment of 2005-2006.

I don't know much about how reliable the third-order winning percentage statistic is...I know it's some complicated adjustment to Pythagorean projections, that's about it. But in any case, the folks at Baseball Prospectus think highly enough of it to use it in their playoff odds reports:

Third order wins and losses, as of today, caluclated by BP:
Mets 61.7 48.3
Cards 52.2 58.8 (!!!)
Dodgers 59.2 52.8

Early, yet, but the trend is going my way.

http://tinyurl.com/o5z95