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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Three Chad Billingsleys
2006-08-15 16:30
by Jon Weisman

1) Wild pitcher manages to bail himself out of trouble: June 21, July 13, July 28, August 10
2) Wild pitcher sinks under the weight of his own mistakes: June 26, July 2, July 7, July 23
3) Wild pitcher shakes it all off and finds comfort, joy in strike zone: June 15, July 18, August 5

"We live in a cynical world," Jerry Maguire said, and it's true. It's hard to find faith in the first of these Chad Billingsleys, hard to believe that it is internal guile and not external luck coming to his rescue.

Of course, it's some undefined combination of the two.

Billingsley does have some tangible things going for him that help diminish the damage of walking an astonishing 4.6 batters per six innings. When batters do make contact, more than half the balls they hit are on the ground. Among National League pitchers who have thrown 60 innings or more this season, Billingsley ranks 13th in that category. And when the ball gets in the air, the damage isn't too bad, either: his opponents' slugging percentage of .383 is 15th.

Those stats only encourage the seat-of-the-pants argument for Billingsley to trust his stuff more, which is all well and good except for 1) it's easier said than executed and 2) the question of whether that trust will backfire, with an increase in slugging percentage allowed. Billingsley's batting average allowed on balls in play, .277, is perhaps unremarkable, but if anything, it shows that luck has been a bit on his side.

It's possible that in some of his outings, Billingsley has walked the right guys, that the reason he gets out of some of these jams is that he knows which batters to go after. I'm not saying this is what happens all the time - Grady Little's avuncular chats at the mound don't usually come after Billingsley has walked Albert Pujols - but there have been moments where Billingsley has clearly picked his battles.

Billingsley could be the rare pitcher who wins despite high pitch counts. There is an exception to every rule. It's not as if any other Dodger starter is regularly turning in complete games, so there's no reason for Billingsley to be held to that standard. While his longest outing is seven innings, his shortest is five. I don't see a lot for him to be ashamed about there.

But we live in a cynical world. We don't want to bank on Billingsley being an exception to the rule. We want him just to rule, period. That tough out he gets with the bases loaded, we want him to get before the bases are loaded. Those bloopers and bleeders that every pitcher allows - let the leadoff batter be the one who hits them.

To some extent, we would rather see Billingsley challenge the batter and give up a home run than shy away to a walk. Not because the homer isn't more painful, but because we believe that Billingsley has the talent, more often than not, to get the batter out when he does go High Noon on them.

But for that to work, we have to be willing to accept the wounds that come with the dares and double dares. All of us. Billingsley's stuff is good but not overpowering. Simply throwing strikes won't provide a shield. That's a daunting reality for anyone to face in a pennant race (a reality that will have a manager considering his alternatives from time to time).

We live in a cynical world, and Billingsley lives there with us. Hopefully, that doesn't rule out any happy endings.

* * *

Tonight's Game

Comments (487)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-15 16:43:35
1.   Telemachos
If Billingsley hangs a breaking ball, and gets taken deep, would we dare call that a "hanging Chad"?
2006-08-15 16:45:59
2.   natepurcell
Great post Jon.
2006-08-15 16:46:48
3.   Linkmeister
1 Oh, ouch.

Maybe Billingsley isn't the second coming of Drysdale or Sutton. Maybe he's the second coming of Bill Singer (the athlete, not the latter-day misogynist). Or Pete Richert. Or Omar Daal. Or (insert run-of-the-mill Dodger pitcher here).

Who really knows?

2006-08-15 16:48:31
4.   Greg Brock
While his longest outing is seven innings, his shortest is five. I don't see a lot for him to be ashamed about there.

I don't know many teams that can say the same about their five starter. In fact, I don't think I know of any.

2006-08-15 16:50:21
5.   FirstMohican
Ohhhh I hope it's Omar Daal!

"Of course, it's some undefined combination of the two."

I don't know if not getting flustered falls under "internal guile," but it must help that he doesn't scream at himself a la Jeff Weaver when he walks a couple batters.

2006-08-15 16:50:26
6.   Robert Daeley
I'm impressed you worked "avuncular" into a baseball story. ;D
2006-08-15 16:51:48
7.   bobbygrich
I have seen versions 1 and 2 of Chad pitch, I hope soon to see version 3.
2006-08-15 16:52:16
8.   Jon Weisman
2 - Thanks, Nate

6 - Oh, with baseball managers, is it really so impressive?

2006-08-15 16:54:31
9.   FirstMohican
4 - This is going to sound ridiculous, but since that wont be out of character, here it goes: I don't know of very many teams that can replace their #5 with Sele or Tomko.
2006-08-15 16:56:06
10.   JoeyP
I researched 20 or so #1 starters a couple months ago to see how they did their 1st seasons. Only 2 really struggled as much as Billingsley has this year, and they were left handers- Mulder/Santana.

My expectations for Billingsley have been lowered to #3 starter over the next 2-3 seasons.

K/9 and HR/9 just havent been near dominant enough. The GB tendencies are ok, but nothing overwhelming. Nothing earth shattering like Blanton, Lowe, or Wang.

Very underwhelming rookie season, considering the hype. Am I disappointed? Yes.

But on to the next guy. Hopefully Elbert can be that #1.

2006-08-15 16:59:22
11.   Sam DC
This is a nice piece; go Chad!

The problem with the "better than anyone else's number five" arguments of course is that many of Chad's fans are hoping for him to be more than a good #5.

I'm off to what promises to be an extended war of bedtime attrition, so I'll just note that Jon's Pedro is pitching well in the early going here at RFK.

2006-08-15 16:59:28
12.   Bob Timmermann
Grady Little is not my uncle!
2006-08-15 16:59:59
13.   JoeyP
4. Isnt Hendrickson the #5? I hope he is. If Hendy is the #4, something is wrong.

If I was charting the Dodgers:
#1- Penny
#2- Lowe
#3- Maddux
#4- Billingsley
#5- Hendrickson

Now, if I wanted to evaluate these pitchers, respective to the entire sample: I'd go:
#2- Penny
#2- Lowe
#4- Maddux
#5- Billingsley
#5- Hendrickson

I might be slighting Penny a bit. He's close to a #1.

2006-08-15 17:00:45
14.   natepurcell
The GB tendencies are ok, but nothing overwhelming. Nothing earth shattering like Blanton

including Blanton in gb/fb ratio comparison doesnt make sense at all.

2006-08-15 17:02:16
15.   Greg Brock
11 Well goodness me Sam DC, I always assumed that we'd cut a rookie pitcher, barely able to drink a beer, a little bit of slack. Of course we don't expect him to be a five starter. I also don't expect him to have peaked, 11 games into his rookie season.
2006-08-15 17:02:39
16.   FirstMohican
13 - I would imagine if Chad is in danger of losing a starting job, that automatically makes him a #5.
2006-08-15 17:06:29
17.   natepurcell
Billingsley's ERA+ is 120. he might not be pretty doing it, but he is getting results noneless.
2006-08-15 17:06:35
18.   JoeyP
My fault Blanton is at 1.23 GB/FB, which isnt earth shattering.

I thought his GB/FB was a little better bc I knew his HR rate was very low (only 11 in 150IP).

2006-08-15 17:08:30
19.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
13 I have long felt that Penny was an excellent #2 starter (in what would be a great rotation if he were #2), and that Lowe was a midline #2 at best, but possibly a #3 given his back-and-forth dance with reliability.

As a result, I had hoped the Dodgers could find a third #2/3 guy as an alternative to having to overpay for a true #1. That's why picking up Tompko and Seo this year didn't make me smile.

2006-08-15 17:13:43
20.   natepurcell
Seems like people are already giving up on Billingsley or I might just be reading too much into it.

my response: his outstanding minor league record indicates he will be a very good pitcher. While he hasn't been flawless in his big league debut, there are alot of things a Dodger fan should be excited about if they watch him pitch. This is his age 21 season, he will PROGRESS to the mean as he matures. And the mean, indicated by his strong minor league record is of a very good major league pitcher.

end of rant, i have to pack now.

2006-08-15 17:15:10
21.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
13 - Just as long as Maddux isn't regarded as a "horse."
After all, non-horses can't go more than eight innings, no matter how few pitches they've thrown.
Joe Morgan said so.
2006-08-15 17:16:26
22.   bigcpa
Billinsgley has an 80.9% LOB rate which would lead the NL if he qualified (and an ugly 5.69 FIP). The top 10 in NL LOB rate is quite a who's who.

1 C Young
2 Arroyo
3 Zambrano
4 J Johnson
5 Carpenter
6 Oswalt
7 Webb
8 Penny
9 Schmidt
10 Smoltz

Incidentally with the Cubs Maddux had the worst LOB rate in the NL at 62.7%. That jumps to a ludicrous 84.6% with LA. His FIP was 3.69 with the Cubs, something I totally overlooked when we acquired him.

2006-08-15 17:17:01
23.   Greg Brock
What if I were to tell you that I had a 21 year old righthander, with a 95 mph fastball, an above average breaking pitch, and excellent minor league numbers?

Would that be something you'd be interested in?

2006-08-15 17:19:20
24.   Mr Customer
I'm a little disappointed that you didn't go for the hokey newsrag headline, Jon. You could have easily done "My three Chads" to include a senselessly arcane TV-culture reference.
2006-08-15 17:20:12
25.   JoeyP
That is quite a list.
One thing that jumps out at me is that all of the pitchers on that list are big strikeout pitchers, which makes sense bc thats usually the only way to ensure stranding baserunners.

Maddux having a poor LOB isnt a surprise bc he doesnt K many people.

Billingsley being on that list, without an impressive K rate, is quite the feat tho.

2006-08-15 17:22:05
26.   Jon Weisman
23 - I just would like to be sedated.
2006-08-15 17:24:29
27.   bigcpa
23 I might be interested. Do you have him tied up in your basement or what?
2006-08-15 17:26:03
28.   JoeyP
Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Nomar, 1B
Drew, RF
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Betemit, 3B
Martin, C
Billingsley, P

Looks like the everyday lineup.
Guess Lugo is a utility player now.

2006-08-15 17:27:29
29.   Claire Malone-Evans
Billingsley has a 3.52 ERA despite 47 BB and only 38 K, that is practically unprecedented. He is having more success than Greg Maddux did in his rookie season.
2006-08-15 17:27:34
30.   Eric Enders
27 Bring in The Gimp. Uh, I mean, The Bull.
2006-08-15 17:29:02
31.   the OZ
23 You really don't have a pitcher, do you, Mr. Brock?
2006-08-15 17:30:44
32.   bigcpa
Maybe Billingsley should try looking at the target during his windup. When the guy can't find the plate against the #8 hitter this tends to bug me.
2006-08-15 17:31:28
33.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
In the previous thread, I equated Lugo to Tony Phillips. He can play short, second, third and the outfield corners. That's quite a weapon for a savvy manager.
2006-08-15 17:31:49
34.   Greg Brock
31 No, I don't. But I figure if we sit around and scout the minors for a while, we can come up with one.
2006-08-15 17:32:21
35.   Bluebleeder87
I would imagine if Chad is in danger of losing a starting job, that automatically makes him a #5.

Not true, he's a rookie pitcher @ 21 years of age just trying to contribute, I'm really intrigued by what has unfolded with Chad, I really hope he pitches well today.

2006-08-15 17:35:25
36.   Greg Brock
33 I was under the impression that only white point guards and veteran left handed pitchers were allowed to be savvy.
2006-08-15 17:36:10
37.   Jon Weisman
28 - Lugo was to be a utility player from the moment Kent and Garciaparra were activated from the DL - the Dodgers made that clear pretty much when they acquired him.

20 - Billingsley is capable of reducing his walk rate, likely to benefit from the reduction and likely to become a quality pitcher. The mystery, for me, is only how long this will take.

I don't think too many people are giving up on Billingsley. Some might be tempering their expectations, especially for this year. That's not the same thing.

2006-08-15 17:36:31
38.   bhsportsguy
33 Has to be an age thing, but the Dodger equivalent would be Darrel Thomas.
2006-08-15 17:37:20
39.   JoeyP
The Lakers have too much 'savvy' on their roster.
2006-08-15 17:37:26
40.   Jon Weisman
I don't think 27 and 30 watched Entourage this week, so they've fallen back on Pulp Fiction.
2006-08-15 17:39:04
41.   Jacob L
Pardon the non-sequitor -

I admit that I root for the Red Sox due, mostly, to marrying into a New England family. However much I want them to do well, though, I enjoy the heck out of the annual "the end is nigh" moment which happens to be occuring right . . . now!

This series between them and Detroit features 2 teams in great position on paper, but who are probably gripping pretty hard at this point. Although, I guess the cold reality of the AL is that a couple of real good teams are going to be left on the outs.

2006-08-15 17:42:45
42.   bigcpa
40 Is Entourage that show where Russell Martin hangs around with the actor guy?
2006-08-15 17:45:20
43.   bhsportsguy
37 I know that Nate talks about and a quick look at some No. 1 starters confirms this, Chad is still on the really young side when it comes to starting his MLB career.

Chad is the first really hyped prospect to make to the Dodgers during this current run.

Sure, Martin and Ethier have done great and others have filled in but there is no question that Chad has been among the top prospects for a few years and the top pitcher talked about for many years.

Expectations are hard to temper and with the great performances of Papelbon in Boston, Jered Weaver and to lesser degree, Joe Saunders for the Angels, Justin Verlander in Detroit, Florida's group of rookie starters and then the ace of the group, Liriano in Minnesota, lots of Dodger fans wanted their own baby pitching ace to live up to all the billing.

Whether or not he does, tonite's start or even the rest of 2006 will not answer but we should judge Chad on his own merits.

Good luck Chad and go spear some Marlins.

2006-08-15 17:45:35
44.   Greg Brock
40 Highlight of the show (other than the "would that be something" line):

(interior limousine)
Eric: Uh, where do you live Bob
Bob Ryan: Wha?

God Bless Martin Landau

2006-08-15 17:48:49
45.   bhsportsguy
They are not winning every game but does it mean anything that since the Phillies trade Abreu for some subway tokens and tickets to a revival of Cats, they are 8-5 (with some bad late losses) and are going for their second straight blow out win over the Mets (11-2 in the 6th).
2006-08-15 17:56:39
46.   Icaros
My Comcast Extra Innings went out just after Nomar's home run last night, and is still not working today.

MLB Audio stopped working on my Mac around the All-Star break.

So, despite paying for both to ensure always getting to follow the game, I'm left with Gameday and the stupid Giants-Padres.

I know many others have it much worse than me, but I'm really hating the world right now.

2006-08-15 18:00:38
47.   Bob Timmermann

My advice in these situations is to start from a base, e.g., not being dead and then work your way up through things that make you happy. Eventually things won't seem so bad.

2006-08-15 18:01:57
48.   Sam DC
Hah -- bedtime a dream and I'm in time to report possible Griddle-worthy events at RFK. Pedro Astacio goes out for the ninth, trying to get the Nationals' first complete game of the season.

I believe Bob reported earlier that there's never been a team that went all season with zero CGs.

We'll see what Frank does. 5-run lead and 77 pitches, 2 hits, for Pedro through eight.

2006-08-15 18:03:04
49.   Icaros

I'm having a hard time getting past not being dead right now.

Seems like death might be warm and trouble-free.

2006-08-15 18:03:18
50.   Sam DC
And what is up with Phildelphia? 11-2 over the Mets.

And why was this post not titled "The Three Faces of Chad"?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-15 18:07:53
51.   bhsportsguy
48 Vote for Pedro
2006-08-15 18:09:20
52.   Sam DC
So Astacio does it -- a CG shutout, 2H, 0BB. 89 total pitches, 66 strikes.
2006-08-15 18:10:58
53.   Bluebleeder87

I still can't get Dodgers on Demand, the cable guy told me "it would work for sure this week"

2006-08-15 18:11:30
54.   Sam DC
So, Bob -- are the Cubs still alive in the no-cg sweepstakes?
2006-08-15 18:12:02
55.   D4P
1. Lose the Mac
2. Are you dissing Gameday...?
2006-08-15 18:12:58
56.   Bob Timmermann
Already covered on the Griddle Sam.
2006-08-15 18:14:12
57.   Bluebleeder87
*I'm having a hard time getting past not being dead right now.

Seems like death might be warm and trouble-free.*

death in IMO is a black hole of nothingness, thus you are correct sir.

2006-08-15 18:14:31
58.   Bob Timmermann
Icaros don't get rid of your Mac. Don't become one of "them." I'm counting on you. Don't give in to the Microsoft corporate drones.

I look at you as a shining light in an ever-increasing fog of PCs.

2006-08-15 18:14:45
59.   Sam DC
You've got an extra "n" up there. I know you probably feel entitled, what with a life of being short-n'd yourself, but still.
2006-08-15 18:16:26
60.   Sam DC
Yanks down 3-0, A-Rod up with the bases loaded no outs in the sixth.
2006-08-15 18:18:41
61.   Bob Timmermann
At this moment, four teams in the NL are 55-63.

That will change though as three of them haven't played or finished yet.

2006-08-15 18:18:43
62.   Sam DC
60 Only gets a weak single that scores just one run. Unclutch!
2006-08-15 18:24:44
63.   Bob Timmermann
Time of game in Atlanta between Nats and Braves, 2:01.
2006-08-15 18:29:43
64.   Greg Brock
Detroit up 2-1 at Fenway (8th). Ortiz up with 2 out
2006-08-15 18:30:08
65.   Bob Timmermann
Err, make that, time of the game in Washington....
2006-08-15 18:30:31
66.   Greg Brock
Ortiz hits a double. Shocker. Tie game.
2006-08-15 18:32:45
67.   Paul Scott
58 Because, you know, Apple isn't a corporation. It's just ultracool Steve Jobs and his pals putting together way-bitchin machines in his garage.
2006-08-15 18:34:51
68.   Greg Brock
66 Sorry, it was a long single. Manny now up.
2006-08-15 18:36:19
69.   Greg Brock
Going to the ninth in Boston, tied at two.
2006-08-15 18:38:16
70.   Bluebleeder87
Only gets a weak single that scores just one run. Unclutch!

it was kind of clutch, he atleast scored one. NY fans probably booed him huh?

2006-08-15 18:39:24
71.   Bob Timmermann

Remember I own a Prius. And I own a Mac. Do I own them because they are necessarily the best product on the market?

No, I own them to take over the moral high ground!

2006-08-15 18:39:43
72.   Sam DC
70 Yeah -- I was just joking because of the way they boo him. I don't really think he's unclutch.
2006-08-15 18:45:24
73.   Paul Scott
71 I top your moral superiority with -

I gave up my car and bike commute. I rent when absolutely necessary (though I am probably going to buy the Prius plug-in when it becomes available or possibly have a car custom made as an electric).

I use Linux (though I also have a WinXP box).

To top it off, I am vegan. :)

2006-08-15 18:45:41
74.   norcalblue
2 Agree, great post.

I had the opportunity to come to LA last Thursday on business and catch the first win of this new steak. I was struck by Chad's competitiveness and, more significantly, his inability to hit 92 on the speed gun.

After the game, I turned on the AM 980/post-game talk (can't get that in Sacramento) and listened to the mostly endless parade of intoxicated Dodger fans. One sage caller from Riverside made the obvious point: 5 months into this season, Billingsley needs to skip a turn or two, if he is going to be of any value the next 6-8 weeks.

In the 8 weeks since Billingsley was called up, he has made 11 starts and 1,098 pitches (100 p/g avg.). In no game has he thrown less than 91 pitches. He is 21 years-old.

The wise man from Riverside calmly said to the clueless talk-show host who mistook the call as a sign of giving-up on the young phenom: "...have you ever pitched? Do you have any idea what it is like to 'hit the wall'? If they don't give this kid a break, they will peel him off the wall and it won't be pretty."

2006-08-15 18:46:06
75.   D4P
I can't argue with Apple's moral superiority, but I'm poor. I can only affort "PCs" and Gameday.
2006-08-15 18:47:09
76.   Bob Timmermann

You're not one of them Class 3 vegans are you? You know, the ones that don't eat anything that doesn't cast a shadow.

2006-08-15 18:47:37
77.   Bob Timmermann
Darnit, blew the joke.
2006-08-15 18:48:02
78.   D4P
Should we call you "St. Paul" from now on...?
2006-08-15 18:48:22
79.   Greg Brock
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Paul Scott did not vote for Patrick J. Buchanan or Gary Bauer.
2006-08-15 18:51:04
80.   Paul Scott
78 Given my position on religion, generally, and the Catholic Church in particular, I don't think "St. Paul" is likely appropriate. I do love the way they dress though (the simple black and white, not those outlandish things they wear in Rome).
2006-08-15 18:51:04
81.   Greg Brock
Completely wacky play in Fenway. I'm not going to describe it. Jim Leyland is angry (that's odd). 3-2 Detroit, two outs and a runner on third for the Tigers.
2006-08-15 18:52:48
82.   Bob Timmermann
It's baffled the Gameday operator so you better explain it.
2006-08-15 18:52:56
83.   D4P
On second thought, you're an attorney. You've forfeited all claims to moral superiority...
2006-08-15 18:54:02
84.   Icaros
I got a Mac (Powerbook, to be exact) because I was tired of dealing with viruses and the companies who secretly make them (Norton, McAfee, etc.). For that part, I am happy.

I'd still like these media issues to be resolved, and I can't find a working MS Word program that I don't have to pay for (I have no moral ground to speak of).

2006-08-15 18:54:57
85.   D4P
Bob: What do you think about using the conjunction "It's" (as you have) to mean "It has", when technically it should only mean "It is"...?
2006-08-15 18:56:21
86.   Bob Timmermann

You understood what I meant didn't you? If you don't like it, take it with the International Tribunal of Contractions (ITOC) that convenes bienially in Antwerp.

2006-08-15 18:57:45
87.   Paul Scott
84 Curious. You believe enough in some sort of conspiracy theory that virus are primarily created by anti-virus software makers, but not enough to carry it further and think that the plethora of PC only viruses might be the product of Apple.
2006-08-15 18:57:51
88.   Greg Brock
[82} Okay, runners on first and third, one out. Munroe hits one down the right field line. It bounces off Willy Mo (giggle) Pena's glove fair. Munroe heads to second, comes back to first, and is promptly called out by the first base umpire, and safe by the home plate umpire. Leyland loses his S@#$#. He's ruled out.

Instead of first and third, one out, it's runner on third, two out. Runner at third doesn't score. Leyland is angry.

I hate you for making me type all that.

2006-08-15 18:58:59
89.   Greg Brock
88 And then I mess up the brackets.
2006-08-15 19:00:17
90.   D4P
I'm no longer welcome at ITOC, after I caused a scene over the word "won't." I mean, come on: how do you get w-o-n-t out of w-i-l-l-n-o-t? Plus, why is OK to say something like "Why won't you go with me," but not OK to say "Why will not you go with me?"
2006-08-15 19:01:41
91.   StolenMonkey86
71 - my school superintendent got our school system a giant contract with apple, and since then I don't really have much appreciation for Macs, except the iMovie program.

I have great respect, though, for Linux.

2006-08-15 19:01:44
92.   Greg Brock
If you need to learn more about the function of conjuctions, there is a junction you can go to. It involves a train and a conductor.

It also rocks.

2006-08-15 19:02:08
93.   Paul Scott
85 Are contractions neccessarily defined? Can I not (properly) contract any two words - using an apostrophy in place of all letters between the two letters on either side - and simply allow context to provide the answer to what was betwixt?
2006-08-15 19:02:11
94.   D4P
Man Fingers Fingers in Bracket Mess Up
2006-08-15 19:03:57
95.   D4P
But shouldn't each contraction have only one unique meaning? Should "It's" be able to stand for both "It is" and "It has"?
2006-08-15 19:04:17
96.   dzzrtRatt
Great post, Jon.

All I can say is, as cynical as this world is, at least Chad doesn't have to live in Tommy Lasorda's cynical world. He'd have Billingsley on a one-way ticket to palookaville by now.

There are two kinds of ingenues: The ones who are afraid to make a mistake, and the ones who aren't afraid to make a mistake. Both kinds cause their own particular problems. Both kinds can be undone by their predilictions, but hopefully they learn just in time to balance their natural talent with proper respect for their roles. Chad probably will learn to "trust his stuff" but not fully til next season.

Assuming the Dodgers make the playoffs, I'm not sure I'd have him on the 25-man roster if I had to decide today. He doesn't seem ready for that kind of pressure.

2006-08-15 19:05:30
97.   Paul Scott
92 We are discussing contractions not conjunctions. Conjunctions may get you pretty far, but they willn't help much with our issues. ;)
2006-08-15 19:06:31
98.   Icaros

No, I've heard the "Mac makes viruses" theory as well.

Probably true.

2006-08-15 19:06:38
99.   Bob Timmermann
Contraction traction
What's your action?
Making big words shorter and shorter ...
2006-08-15 19:07:56
100.   Greg Brock
95 Got me again.

97 Hey, it was an opportunity to bring up school house rock. Cut me some slack.

Detroit beats the Red Sox 3-2.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-15 19:08:36
101.   dzzrtRatt
95 I have no idea what the proscriptive answer is. But I've heard "It's" to mean "It has" all my life, and I've never once heard it corrected.

Maybe I didn't hang around with enough nuns.

2006-08-15 19:09:02
102.   Telemachos
84 Icaros, take a look at

Sounds like NeoOffice or AbiWord might be what you're looking for. And they're free, of course.

2006-08-15 19:09:23
103.   Paul Scott
93 No. Contractions should be merely the exercise of a rule of grammar - not additions themselves to the lexicon. In your example, "It's" should not be a word that has a deffinition. "It's" should be a rule of grammar whereby an apostrophy replaced letters. The rule of grammar should require that what those letters are is made clear by the context of the sentance.

As an aside - if you consider contractions just words, then your objection to "won't" has no basis.

2006-08-15 19:09:58
104.   Johnson
Merriam Webster includes both "it is" and "it has" as expansions of "it's". I'd assume that the OED does as well, but I can't access it from home.
2006-08-15 19:12:26
105.   D4P
then your objection to "won't" has no basis

Oh, it has a basis all right. Yes indeedy-do. "Basis?" "Check."

BTW: I use "It's" to mean "It has" all the time in speech, but I never feel right using it that way in written form.

2006-08-15 19:12:51
106.   Johnson
Of course, the real culprit here is "fo'c'sle", which should by all rights be spelled "fo'c's'le".
2006-08-15 19:16:17
107.   Uncle Miltie
I'll admit that that was a fantastic play by Kent
2006-08-15 19:16:37
108.   Paul Scott
105 FWIW, IMO message boards are "written form" only by the necessity of the medium, and should be considered more akin to speech than to writing.
2006-08-15 19:16:39
109.   Bluebleeder87
Maybe I didn't hang around with enough nuns.

they pull you're ear when you don't behave!

2006-08-15 19:18:55
110.   Icaros

Thanks. I'll give those a try.

2006-08-15 19:19:14
111.   StolenMonkey86
99 - I'm clapping
2006-08-15 19:19:29
112.   Paul Scott
Chad has started out right. Let's see if he can keep his red circle/green circle ratio respectable today. ;)
2006-08-15 19:19:38
113.   D4P
True, I write speechy-sounding words like "kinda" and "sorta" and "gonna".
2006-08-15 19:21:40
114.   dzzrtRatt
In thinking it over, trying to come up with sentences that use It's to mean It has, all I can come up with are sentences where it is redundant, or at least inefficient; without the contraction, the sentence would seem wordy. Like:

Tell me about your car.
It's got a V-6...
(but why not "It has a V-6?" And definitely not "It has got a V-6.")

Where is your dog?
It's left the room.
(But why not "It left the room?" And probably not "It has left the room.")

Maybe someone else will think of an essential, efficient use of "It's" to mean "It has." I couldn't.

2006-08-15 19:22:28
115.   Greg Brock
107 I liked it better in the Astacio thread. That, and its subsequent post, had me on the floor laughing. It kind of had a "walking into the girls bathroom" awkwardness to it. Thanks for making my horrible day a little lighter.
2006-08-15 19:22:48
116.   CanuckDodger
Kershaw had the worst game of his short pro career today:

4.0 IP, 6 H's, 3 ER's, 1 BB, 4 K's

His numbers for the season still look good, though:

36.0 IP, 28 H's, 0 HR's, 5 BB's, 52 K's, 2.00 ERA

2006-08-15 19:23:29
117.   StolenMonkey86
I like that K/BB
2006-08-15 19:24:08
118.   D4P
That's similar to my problem with "won't" and "don't". If "don't" truly stands for "do not," why does it sound so wrong to say something like "Why do not you want to eat now?"
2006-08-15 19:25:09
119.   Linkmeister
Icaros, offers a good product which runs on Macs and is fully compatible with MS-Word and Excel.
2006-08-15 19:25:51
120.   StolenMonkey86
that's a fairly low pitch for a short popup
2006-08-15 19:26:20
121.   Greg Brock
It's been a long time,
now I'm,
coming back home.
2006-08-15 19:27:38
122.   Bluebleeder87

4.0 IP, 6 H's, 3 ER's, 1 BB, 4 K's

I'm still very happy with the innings & K's

2006-08-15 19:27:50
123.   Icaros

Is that different from NeoOffice, which I'm downloading now?

By the way, everyone, I know next to nothing about computers, except that I sometimes hate them.

2006-08-15 19:28:01
124.   Paul Scott
bittorrent offers a free version of MS Office that works on a Mac too. ;)
2006-08-15 19:28:51
125.   Icaros

Great lesser-known Beatles song.

2006-08-15 19:29:04
126.   Linkmeister
By the way, when Koufax was 21 he threw 104 1/3 innings with 51 walks. Somebody who's got a calculator or spreadsheet open can figure what the BB/9 ratio was. Then we could compare it to Billingsley's 4.6 BB/6.
2006-08-15 19:29:14
127.   Paul Scott
Grrrr.... Chad is tossing up those green circles again. Red, Chad. Red!
2006-08-15 19:29:28
128.   fanerman
Icaros, I like I use it at home as a free and legal alternative to Word.
2006-08-15 19:30:19
129.   Linkmeister
123 It's different if you're not getting it from, yes.
2006-08-15 19:30:41
130.   dzzrtRatt
You'd say "Why do you not want to eat now?" But because you'd re-order the words to make it sound right, that contradicts the "not additions to the lexicon" rule enunciated in 103, which I'm not sure I agree is the case anyway. Maybe 150 years from now, don't will be written as "dont" and the rules of grammar will have expanded accordingly. 'Twouldn't be the first time.
2006-08-15 19:31:00
131.   DXMachina
118 why does it sound so wrong to say something like "Why do not you want to eat now?

Maybe it would sound a little better as "Why do you not want me to eat now?"

2006-08-15 19:31:38
132.   StolenMonkey86
that's a 4.4
2006-08-15 19:32:01
133.   DXMachina
Or, what 130 said. :)
2006-08-15 19:32:03
134.   King of the Hobos
126 4.4
2006-08-15 19:32:16
135.   dzzrtRatt
John Lennon, you magnificent bastard! I read your book!
2006-08-15 19:32:26
136.   Uncle Miltie
Not sure if it's been posted yet but the Lo Duca news keeps getting worse. I think he's going to have to change his nickname to Wilt. The title of the article is LOL funny.

2006-08-15 19:32:28
137.   StolenMonkey86
15 pitches, 1-2-3
2006-08-15 19:34:09
138.   Linkmeister
132, 134 Okay then. I'm not suggesting Billingsley is gonna be another Koufax (who has been?), but at comparable ages (although Billz had more minor league experience, since Sandy never played a day in the minors) they seem to have similar control problems. We all know how that turned out.
2006-08-15 19:34:16
139.   Greg Brock
135 Nice Patton reference.

You don't hold your position. Let the Hun do that.

2006-08-15 19:35:23
140.   Paul Scott
138 So you expect Billingsly to retire long before he should?
2006-08-15 19:35:24
141.   fanerman
Chad has thrown 32 pitches in 2 innings.
2006-08-15 19:36:35
142.   CanuckDodger
How's the velocity on Billingsley's fastball tonight? Breaking stuff looking okay?
2006-08-15 19:36:52
143.   StolenMonkey86
135 - yeah, I got the Patton reference, but I must not have been paying attention because I didn't get the John Lennon part
2006-08-15 19:37:42
144.   Icaros
Thanks to everyone for the Word suggestions.

This NeoOffice says it's from, so it's probably the same.

2006-08-15 19:39:30
145.   dzzrtRatt
143 see 121 (I wasn't trying to be obscure, I just forgot to add the comment #.)
2006-08-15 19:40:08
146.   natepurcell
90-93 with fb, curveball looking pretty good. thrown a couple of cut fastballs.
2006-08-15 19:41:16
147.   StolenMonkey86
145 - oh, ok
2006-08-15 19:43:10
148.   Paul Scott
Perhaps we could cut down Billingley's pitch count by offering to give every batter a 2-0 count when they come to the plate. That seems to be where Billingsley likes to start, but then he does fine from there on out.
2006-08-15 19:45:41
149.   Bluebleeder87
wow Furcal! over the shoulder catch
2006-08-15 19:45:55
150.   Andrew Shimmin
Well, that was pretty stupid. Good thing he caught it.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-15 19:46:33
151.   KG16
Apparently Furcal thinks Lofton is in left field tonight
2006-08-15 19:46:48
152.   dzzrtRatt
what does it mean if my laptop's wireless internet access hangs up (e.g. pages not downloading, streaming music coming to a halt), but if I gently whack the bottom of it against my knee, the hangup stops? Does the data get clogged like a wad of hair in the drain? Am I loosening the data bits by giving them a physical jolt?

Man I am so getting a Mac next time. Jobs has me right where he wants me.

2006-08-15 19:48:39
153.   StolenMonkey86
152 - It means that my theory that computers are like toilets and often require you to jiggle the handle is correct.
2006-08-15 19:48:49
154.   Icaros
I hate Comcast and MLB Audio!!!

(I may have these outbursts throughout the night.)

2006-08-15 19:49:33
155.   Bob Timmermann
The Internet is a series of tubes! Tubes!
2006-08-15 19:50:23
156.   Linkmeister
140 "Who knows what evil (liniment) lurks in the hearts (arms) of men?"
2006-08-15 19:50:24
157.   dzzrtRatt
153 That's actually quite reassuring.
2006-08-15 19:50:43
158.   Icaros

I thought it was a dump truck.

2006-08-15 19:50:58
159.   Linkmeister
155 Totally tubular, man.
2006-08-15 19:53:33
160.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds were shut out in St. Louis, so the Padres can tie for the wild card with a win tonight.
2006-08-15 19:54:13
161.   Bob Timmermann
But the Padres are down 2-0 to the Giants.
2006-08-15 19:54:40
162.   scooplew
Regarding Jon's recent thread that discussed Jayson Werth's wrist woes and the fact that he will be out of the year -- no surprise there -- leads me to a question about the disabled list. Why is it used so much more now than it was a generation and more ago. Besides Werth, Kent and Garciaparra will spend considerable time on the DL this year. I looked back at some Dodgers of the past. Pee Wee Reese played at least 140 games every year from 1941 through 1956; Duke Snider played in at least 139 games every season from 1949 through 1957; Gil Hodges was in 141 or more games each year from 1949 through 1958. The schedule included 154 games all those years, not 162 as today's does. Did those three and their contemporaries play through their injuries more than today's players do? Were they tougher? Is our medical knowledge so much great now that injuries are better diagnosed? I'd like to hear some comments.
2006-08-15 19:56:09
163.   natepurcell
great pitch sequence to Uggla. The first pitch cb and second pitch slider were great pitches.
2006-08-15 19:56:09
164.   Bluebleeder87
can somebody tell me how many pitches Bills made?
2006-08-15 19:56:42
165.   StolenMonkey86
I like this "average 1 K per inning" approach
2006-08-15 19:57:21
166.   natepurcell
Hey Chad, see how easy it is when you dont allow walks?
2006-08-15 19:57:37
167.   Kaz
152 - It could be your antenna. Maybe a wire inside.

Or your wifi switch is on the bottom and your leg is switching it off and then on again.

2006-08-15 19:57:43
168.   Bob Timmermann
The lack of proper diagnoses led to players playing with injuries for the most part. The players weren't tougher. They were just more expendable.
2006-08-15 19:57:50
169.   StolenMonkey86
62 thru 4

4 K's, no BB, 1 hit (but caught stealing); minimum number of batters faced.

2006-08-15 19:57:54
170.   trainwreck
I bet we are going to have to hear about a "new" Chad Billingsley.
2006-08-15 19:58:19
171.   Paul Scott
164 62 through 4 innings. He has faced the minimum 12 batters. This inning was his first really solid one, however.
2006-08-15 19:58:44
172.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
152 - That's known as "percussive maintenance."
2006-08-15 19:59:21
173.   KG16
{162} - Part of it is probably the performance enhancers that weaken tendons and ligaments. Part of it is probably the difference in training regimines - the old timers didn't work out all year, they didn't lift weights, etc. But I think it may also have to do with the investment that the teams are making in players, you pay a guy $30M over four years, you want him healthy for a high percentage of those games.
2006-08-15 20:00:16
174.   Mr Customer
164 To this point? He's made 62. 2/3 for strikes.
2006-08-15 20:01:59
175.   Mr Customer
170 "What, you mean that strike zone?"
2006-08-15 20:02:01
176.   StolenMonkey86
how to get Nomar not to swing at the first pitch:

throw it outside well off the plate

2006-08-15 20:03:34
177.   Bluebleeder87

if he keeps that up, he's good for 6 or 7 no?

2006-08-15 20:03:42
178.   dzzrtRatt
In this Starbucks where I'm sitting, someone left a Daily Breeze on my chair. It's item about Werth made it sound like the Dodgers were waiting for him to call them and tell them what was wrong with him, and knew nothing until yesterday.

Has Werth been getting paid? This seems like weird behavior for a guy who's cashing Dodger paychecks.

2006-08-15 20:03:52
179.   Paul Scott
176 he still swung at ball 4 so that he could ground out on pitch #6.
2006-08-15 20:03:58
180.   StolenMonkey86
well, now the Dodgers have a hit
2006-08-15 20:03:59
181.   Mr Customer
Out with the No-No! I approve!
2006-08-15 20:04:43
182.   Greg Brock
178 Who's Werth?
2006-08-15 20:05:58
183.   Mr Customer
182 He's the one rehabilitating his vestigal "Y", right?
2006-08-15 20:06:56
184.   natepurcell
Kent needs to get his bat going because i am on the verge of getting upset. And I dont upset that easily.
2006-08-15 20:10:41
185.   tjshere
Nate, I'm surprised anything could upset you on a night when Large Chad is doing so well.
2006-08-15 20:11:48
186.   scooplew
173 -- "Part of it is probably the performance enhancers that weaken tendons and ligaments. Part of it is probably the difference in training regimines - the old timers didn't work out all year, they didn't lift weights, etc."

Does that mean that the performance enhancers taken nowadays have a negative effect? Also, If they didn't work out all year or lift weights in the past, would they have made them less susceptible to injuries and missing games during the season?

2006-08-15 20:12:04
187.   natepurcell
well, i have an 8 hour drive tomorrow so I'm pretty grumpy thinking about that.
2006-08-15 20:12:59
188.   StolenMonkey86
1) Wild pitcher manages to bail himself out of trouble:
This porridge is too hot
2) Wild pitcher sinks under the weight of his own mistakes:
This porridge is too cold
3) Wild pitcher shakes it all off and finds comfort, joy in strike zone:
This porridge is just right
2006-08-15 20:13:58
189.   Bluebleeder87
Nate just look at it this way, Bills is pitching good today.
2006-08-15 20:14:04
190.   StolenMonkey86
13 pitches 1-2-3

6 K's through 5

187 - where to?

2006-08-15 20:14:39
191.   Gagne55
Billingsley has faced the minimum through five yet has thrown more pitches than Maddux made in eight. So much for pitching to contact.
2006-08-15 20:14:47
192.   scooplew
162 -- That helps to explain why far fewer players seemed to be around in their late 30s or early 40s when I was growing up.
Do you know of any source that lists how many times the disabled list was used by teams, and by player?
2006-08-15 20:15:43
193.   Paul Scott
He still is averaging 5 pitches/PA. A small blotch on an otherwise stallar performance tonight. I do hope the Dodgers can get a run or two for him, since he only has 2 more innings max (assuming he doesn't get at least one single digit pitch count inning inthe next two).
2006-08-15 20:15:50
194.   natepurcell
Billingsley has faced the minimum through five yet has thrown more pitches than Maddux made in eight. So much for pitching to contact.

You are complaining!??! or just being sarcastic...

2006-08-15 20:16:28
195.   StolenMonkey86
2006-08-15 20:16:38
196.   s choir
191 Maddux's pitches were juicy-slow. It's impossible not to swing. Also, that was the Giants.
2006-08-15 20:16:55
197.   Gagne55
Dodgers need some runs, though...
2006-08-15 20:17:55
198.   Gagne55
194 I don't know. I'm just stating a fact.
2006-08-15 20:18:07
199.   fanerman
Chad's turned it up. I wish I could watch it.
2006-08-15 20:18:25
200.   s choir
pinch hit here?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-08-15 20:18:27
201.   KG16
186 - steriods definitely have a negative effect, as do many of the others. Long term they can lead to serious muscle and tenden deterioration. (my spelling leaves something to be desired, I know)

As for the training, I think it would - if only because it allowed them recovery time. And considering that the vast majority of injuries we seem to be seeing are muscle pulls, strains, and sprains, it would suggest that the problem may have to do with the training that many players use.

Then again, guys like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens extended their careers because of training, so the kind of training done also matters.

2006-08-15 20:19:15
202.   fanerman
Chad has thrown 75 pitches.
2006-08-15 20:19:18
203.   bhsportsguy
Nate: You heading back to the desert? Do you ever go to the Arizona Fall League games?
2006-08-15 20:19:18
204.   trainwreck
Well that was a terrible at bat. Lets not try the fake bunt attempt again Grady.
2006-08-15 20:19:25
205.   Greg Brock
A little too clever by half. Bunt the stupid ball next time.
2006-08-15 20:19:29
206.   Paul Scott
Watching from work on Gameday. I see two "Swinging Strike". Is that correct? Is Little not having him bunt?
2006-08-15 20:20:06
207.   Gagne55
I guess it's a problem in that Billingsley might not be able to go past 7 even though he's been basically perfect.
2006-08-15 20:20:14
208.   Greg S
Let's not go comparing the kids start to one of the best pitched games of our generation. Not exactly fair or telling.
2006-08-15 20:20:25
209.   Paul Scott
Heh. I guess so from the comments above. Well that was stupid...
2006-08-15 20:20:33
210.   Greg Brock
206 He squared, tried to pull the butcher boy, and missed twice. He then tried to bunt, and missed. Just a big bowl of stupid.
2006-08-15 20:21:28
211.   StolenMonkey86
he loaded them up for Lofton
2006-08-15 20:21:43
212.   Gagne55
Still, though, I take back the comment I made earlier that Sele should start. Billingsley has been great. :-)
2006-08-15 20:21:43
213.   natepurcell

Not really. Those are mostly around the Pheonix area and Tucson's about 90mins south of Pheonix and im mostly busy during the school year. I do see some Tucson sidewinder games though. those are fun...especially dollar beer night.

2006-08-15 20:21:49
214.   bhsportsguy
I think the lack of guaranteed contracts plays a lot into how players were treated in the past.

Also, there were scope surgeries nor Tommy Johns so when guys finally got hurt, they were done for a while.

2006-08-15 20:22:06
215.   KG16
Orel Hershiser, Billingsly is not.
2006-08-15 20:23:07
216.   bhsportsguy
213 Great, well have a nice year, hope you have gameday audio or XM so you can catch the games.
2006-08-15 20:23:17
217.   Paul Scott
Bat firmly on the sholder Kenny - and leave it there until 2 strikes.
2006-08-15 20:23:55
218.   StolenMonkey86
well, on the plus side Billingsley doesn't have the higher pitch count anymore
2006-08-15 20:24:04
219.   Paul Scott
/sigh. Guess Kenny though he was going to get a slam...
2006-08-15 20:24:21
220.   KG16
Well, that's one way to kill a rally
2006-08-15 20:25:12
221.   natepurcell

mlbtv is a lifesaver!

2006-08-15 20:25:29
222.   StolenMonkey86
yep, he hit it right to the guy's name
2006-08-15 20:29:28
223.   fanerman
Maybe that at-bat gotinto Chad's head.
2006-08-15 20:29:28
224.   Greg Brock
Not a good night for moving runners over.
2006-08-15 20:29:43
225.   natepurcell
okay I'll say it, Kent looked slower then a turtle trying to get that ground ball.
2006-08-15 20:29:55
226.   StolenMonkey86
"Anyone else want to try to bunt?"
2006-08-15 20:33:57
227.   Greg Brock
Nicely done Billz. Good for you.
2006-08-15 20:34:00
228.   natepurcell
OH HELL YEA!!!723407307@()&@@(
2006-08-15 20:34:13
229.   Jon Weisman
Yay, Chad

Billingsley, that is.

2006-08-15 20:34:33
230.   Paul Scott
Chad hangs tough!
2006-08-15 20:34:34
231.   Uncle Miltie
187- I leave Thursday and it's a 9 hour drive. Are you going with someone?

What a pitch by Billingsley! (looked like a slider)

2006-08-15 20:35:07
232.   StolenMonkey86
nice. 14 pitches

2 hits, 2 K

His strikeout/walk numbers are much better now

2006-08-15 20:35:14
233.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Well, well.
I predict Billingsley will make hundreds of dollars playing this game.
2006-08-15 20:35:24
234.   bhsportsguy
Nate says my faith in Logan always is rewarded.
2006-08-15 20:36:09
235.   tjshere
Scoreless through 9 and a half, Martin with the walkoff jack in the 10th?
2006-08-15 20:36:49
236.   natepurcell
billingsley with his build and that slider remidns me of bonderman.
2006-08-15 20:37:46
237.   Greg Brock
What if I told you that I had a 21 year old starter, with a plus fastball and above average breaking pitch, and he'd go six innings of shutout ball, with 8k's.

Would that be something you might be interested in?

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Yay Chad!

2006-08-15 20:38:01
238.   Bluebleeder87

I'll be happy with a win

2006-08-15 20:38:25
239.   Bob Timmermann
It would be less difficult then to figure out the last time somebody homered in extra innings to end a 1-0 game this time.
2006-08-15 20:40:13
240.   bhsportsguy
239 Nice
2006-08-15 20:40:14
241.   natepurcell
I leave Thursday and it's a 9 hour drive. Are you going with someone?

actually yea, one of my best friends is coming out with me. Hes going to fly to philly from tuscon on sunday (he goes to villanova) so we are going to party it up AZ style over 4 days or so.

2006-08-15 20:40:15
242.   StolenMonkey86
back to back walks
2006-08-15 20:41:04
243.   Uncle Miltie
230- a hanging Chad?
2006-08-15 20:42:06
244.   Greg S
If this game is scoreless in the 7th, I would be quite surprised and disappointed.
2006-08-15 20:42:32
245.   lakerican
Man. Weird. I just saw Spike Lee in a Dodger Uniform in the TV...
2006-08-15 20:42:36
246.   trainwreck
It is okay to take more pitches Kent with people on the bases.
2006-08-15 20:42:52
247.   Bluebleeder87
well Kent's out was worth less! (productive out would have been nice)
2006-08-15 20:43:11
248.   Telemachos
Ethier is due -- he's hit the ball hard the first two ABs.
2006-08-15 20:43:38
249.   lakerican
Those JK RISP PopUps are really getting to me...
2006-08-15 20:43:43
250.   dzzrtRatt
241 All these Dodger Thoughts students heading back to school! Cute!

Have a great year you guys. Sorry, I'm a little verklempt!

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-08-15 20:43:50
251.   D4P
Okay I'll say it, Jeff Kent is not clutch
2006-08-15 20:43:58
252.   Paul Scott
246 He swung at would have been strike three. There was no issue with that PA. It wasn't like Nomar's two innings ago or much worse, Keeny's last inning.
2006-08-15 20:44:37
253.   KG16
Anyone else getting that sinking feeling that Kent came back too early from his injury?
2006-08-15 20:45:17
254.   Greg Brock
Son of a bee sting, if we don't score here...
2006-08-15 20:45:55
255.   fanerman
250 - I'm already at school :(. These days, I I spend 10 1/2 months out of the year away from LA.
2006-08-15 20:46:36
256.   StolenMonkey86
I head back a week from tomorrow
2006-08-15 20:46:44
257.   Bob Timmermann
In the 12th inning of their game in Houston, the Cubs have already used 21 players, including 8 pitchers.
2006-08-15 20:46:59
258.   Greg S
Seems like every time Kent comes up in a key situation lately, he pops up on the infield.
2006-08-15 20:47:14
259.   Greg Brock much pain...
2006-08-15 20:47:17
260.   natepurcell
good job by Sanchez, he threw a bunch of offspeed stuff for strikes.
2006-08-15 20:47:40
261.   Telemachos
Well, phooey.
2006-08-15 20:47:40
262.   fanerman
I go back home in 2 days. Then I go back to school a week later.
2006-08-15 20:47:56
263.   trainwreck
I just finished school.
2006-08-15 20:48:47
264.   fanerman
Well that's a bummer.
2006-08-15 20:49:58
265.   Bob Timmermann
Can't we just call the meetings that Pete Carroll and Karl Dorrell have with the press called "press conferences" instead of "pressers"?
2006-08-15 20:51:15
266.   tjshere
Carrara's warming up? Wow.
2006-08-15 20:51:34
267.   Bob Timmermann
Giles homer makes it SF 2, SD 1 after six.
2006-08-15 20:52:18
268.   StolenMonkey86
yay, 1 pitch out!
2006-08-15 20:52:19
269.   dzzrtRatt
Am I correct in saying fanerman and Telemachos have been silent lurkers for a long time, 'til tonight? My attendance isn't 100 percent so I might have missed you passing through earlier.
2006-08-15 20:52:21
270.   Uncle Miltie
This is the best slider Billingsley has had since he's been in the big leagues. Can you imagine if he can perfect the slider and the curve? Wow.
2006-08-15 20:52:43
271.   Bob Timmermann
Anyone wish to hazard a guess as to the name of the one non-starting pitcher that the Cubs have not yet used against Houston tonight?
2006-08-15 20:53:35
272.   Greg Brock
271 Lee Smith?
2006-08-15 20:54:08
273.   natepurcell
nooooooo, first walk by chad.
2006-08-15 20:54:17
274.   D4P
Warren Brustar?
2006-08-15 20:54:20
275.   Bob Timmermann
Let's limit it to people on the roster now.
2006-08-15 20:54:33
276.   StolenMonkey86
2006-08-15 20:55:16
277.   Paul Scott
and to Borchard...

You could just toss fattys up there and let him hit it.

2006-08-15 20:55:18
278.   dzzrtRatt
271 Rick Reuschel?
2006-08-15 20:55:25
279.   Bob Timmermann
That's correct.

Look for a cameo by Warren Brusstar in the RGC on August 19.

2006-08-15 20:56:14
280.   Greg Brock
275 I'm watching on gamecast, so answering wouldn't have been a guess. I went for the joke instead.
2006-08-15 20:56:33
281.   natepurcell
Chad's slider was awesome today. One more inning! I want 10 Ks!
2006-08-15 20:56:44
282.   Telemachos
269 I don't necessarily post a lot, but I've been posting since before fanerman was fanerman. (I think)
2006-08-15 20:56:59
283.   StolenMonkey86
gotta hold off on the closer for those save situations
2006-08-15 20:57:14
284.   Paul Scott
105 pitches. That was his last. I just hope we can score for him this inning.
2006-08-15 20:57:15
285.   Uncle Miltie
Thank God Chad got out of that. I would hate to see a journeyman like Geode blow Billingsley's best major league performance.
2006-08-15 20:58:07
286.   Sam DC
You're not correct DzzrtRatt, because once we had both Telemachos and Odysseus posting.
2006-08-15 20:58:41
287.   Icaros
Telemachos and fanerman have both been around here as far back as I can remember, and my rookie year was 2004!
2006-08-15 20:59:50
288.   Ben P
Why would Dusty Baker bring Dempster into a tie game when he can bring in Angel Guzman and his 7.39 ERA?
2006-08-15 20:59:52
289.   Sam DC
So, I'm off the grid for ten days starting tomorrow. Going to the small town in Wisconsin where my wife grew up; she hasn't been back in 20 years. It's supposedly the only town in Wisc with five o's in the name.

Name that town.

2006-08-15 21:00:32
290.   Uncle Miltie
You think Ned is scouting Sam Cassell?

2006-08-15 21:00:54
291.   Paul Scott
??? What the Fish? Why not Loney?
2006-08-15 21:00:58
292.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Lucille II steps to the plate, carrying a neon sign that says I'M BUNTING.
2006-08-15 21:01:17
293.   Sam DC
I deep-sixed any notion of the clown museum, you'll be happy to know.

We will be at the Brewers/Rockies game on August 24, however.

2006-08-15 21:01:43
294.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
289 - Oooooracine
2006-08-15 21:02:46
295.   StolenMonkey86
ouch. Billingsley got pulled because he wasn't good enough to hit a sacrifice bunt
2006-08-15 21:03:29
296.   Jon Weisman
269 - Note the small testimonial on the sidebar.
2006-08-15 21:03:37
297.   natepurcell
Vin sounded like Ron Burgandy when he said "mountain".
2006-08-15 21:03:59
298.   Paul Scott
292 Ahh, ok. I don't approve of course, but at least that explains why no Loney. It's hard to believe (even after Chad's last attempt) much was really gained bringing Martinez in if the plan was to bunt - but then again nothing much was lost either.
2006-08-15 21:04:00
299.   Greg Brock
289 That is a small town. Been to Appleton and Osh Kosh, and that's it. EAA Museum, baby!
2006-08-15 21:04:10
300.   Uncle Miltie
Great at bat by Furcal especially being able to lay off of those curves.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-08-15 21:05:05
301.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
297 - I'd pay to hear Vin say, "The arsonist had oddly-shaped feet."
2006-08-15 21:05:32
302.   fanerman
282 - You're probably right. I changed my name, I think. Dropped off some numbers at the end of my nmae (I think I used to be fanerman91). I've been here since the end of the 2004 season.

A kind thank you to everyone who's actually remembered me. I took a break from posting, mainly because I've been busy with school and such.

2006-08-15 21:05:34
303.   Icaros
Thanks to Comcast, I'm watching the Giants game, called by the duo of Jon Miller and F.P. Santangelo.

And I'm rooting for the Giants.

Shoot me.

2006-08-15 21:06:17
304.   natepurcell
yes! Give Chad his win!
2006-08-15 21:06:33
305.   Paul Scott
Those watching - wh is in the BP?
2006-08-15 21:06:44
306.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2006-08-15 21:07:18
307.   fanerman
Looks like an excellent game pitched by Chad (though I can't vouch for how dominating or not dominating he looked).
2006-08-15 21:07:21
308.   Jon Weisman
303 - Not at all. If you root against the Giants against your will, the Giants win. Know what I'm saying?
2006-08-15 21:07:22
309.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
305 - Big bad John. (Broxton)
2006-08-15 21:07:27
310.   Bob Timmermann
I have MS-Word (and the rest of the Office) suite for Mac.

Openoffice might work better. The version I have always takes a long time to open up the application.

2006-08-15 21:07:32
311.   StolenMonkey86
and the Dodgers are put on the board by Kenny Lofton
2006-08-15 21:07:35
312.   Paul Scott
IBB no Nomar to get to Drew. Interesting call.
2006-08-15 21:07:37
313.   tjshere
Messenger's hat looks almost as goofy as Dontrelle's.
2006-08-15 21:07:39
314.   natepurcell

The Behemoth.

2006-08-15 21:08:30
315.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Billingsley's Game Score: 79.
2006-08-15 21:08:35
316.   Greg Brock
I wonder if Tyrone and Josh Willingham are father and son.

Probably not.

2006-08-15 21:08:49
317.   bhsportsguy
I know I shouldn't care about the Giants and I don't but can't they find anyone better than Mike Stanton.
2006-08-15 21:09:22
318.   Paul Scott
314 /tents hands... excellent.
2006-08-15 21:09:31
319.   fanerman
Did you notice that F.P. Santangelo has been talking too close to the mic? Every "p" sound grates my ears.
"That P itch was off the P late."
2006-08-15 21:10:36
320.   Bob Timmermann
Have a good time in Oconomowoc, Sam.
2006-08-15 21:11:33
321.   tjshere
A rather ugly insurance run, but I'll take it.
2006-08-15 21:11:33
322.   StolenMonkey86
RBI(s) for Drew
2006-08-15 21:11:39
323.   Icaros

I know. I'm really just mad that my Extra Innings isn't working and I just missed Billingsley's best game by far in the majors.


Thanks. I'll look into that.

2006-08-15 21:12:38
324.   Bob Timmermann
Woo hoo, let's go pester Sam!

2006-08-15 21:12:55
325.   Icaros

Not really. I've been more distracted by his sounding 16 years old.

2006-08-15 21:13:49
326.   StolenMonkey86
315 - he just topped Maddux for best start for a Dodger pitcher
2006-08-15 21:13:52
327.   Paul Scott
Kent good enough now? ;)
2006-08-15 21:13:55
328.   Sam DC
320 Try teaching a five year old to say that!
2006-08-15 21:14:01
329.   Greg Brock
324 You go ahead. I'll meet you there later.
2006-08-15 21:14:22
330.   StolenMonkey86
by game score anyway
2006-08-15 21:15:51
331.   StolenMonkey86
ethier just took away the save situation
2006-08-15 21:15:52
332.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
This is great.
2006-08-15 21:16:22
333.   Mr Customer


2006-08-15 21:16:52
334.   fanerman
325, maybe it's just me then.
2006-08-15 21:16:53
335.   bhsportsguy
I am beginning to get a really good feeling about this team, if they could only pound out a few more home runs.
2006-08-15 21:17:22
336.   Paul Scott
331 Good. Saves are stupid. :)
2006-08-15 21:17:39
337.   KG16
I swear, I don't know what to make of this team anymore, completely unpredictable - and a blast to watch.

By the way, anyone else hear Skip Bayless this morning on ESPN saying the Bums will win 59 of their last 60? Is that a reasonable expectation at this point?

2006-08-15 21:17:46
338.   StolenMonkey86
the 9th dodger batter of the 7th inning
2006-08-15 21:18:20
339.   Sam DC
Matt Herges! Think Ned'll tell the boys to go easy on him?
2006-08-15 21:18:54
340.   dzzrtRatt
The last few days as a Dodger fan, I've felt like Frodo returning to the Shire.

I don't know if it's possible to compare Bills' start to Maddux's, given the different career contexts, but they both seem incredibly gratifying.

I wonder what completely off-key headline the Times will give this tomorrow? "Lofton Lofty?"

2006-08-15 21:19:17
341.   KG16
335 - homeruns are overrated, I'll take our line up of line drive hitters over a bunch of mashers that strike out twice as much as they hit.
2006-08-15 21:19:39
342.   scooplew
As it happens, I was reading today about Taylor Tanskersley (sounds like a name out of Dickens) in Jeff Pearlman's biography of Barry Bonds, "Love Me, Hate Me." Tankersley, then with the Padres, gave up Bonds' 587th homer in 2002, which moved Bonds to No. 4 on the all-time list. It was on a sinker that didn't sink, and Bonds hit it 482 feet at Quallcomm.
From the book, which is excellent and very damning to Bonds::
" 'Guys still give me a hard time about it,' says Tankersley, who has gone on to a career toiling the minor leagues. 'But the way I see it, if you're pitching to Barry Bonds, it means you're in the big leagues. Plus, I was a part of history.' "
2006-08-15 21:19:59
343.   Mark Joseph
At Bryan Smith has an article on the top 10 NL rookies at the moment. Ethier #2, Martin #7, Saito #9. DT favorite Cole Hamels is #10; Josh Johnson is #1, and his favorite for ROY.
2006-08-15 21:20:12
344.   StolenMonkey86
and that makes 10!
2006-08-15 21:20:18
345.   Mr Customer
This is silly.

But "Good" silly.

2006-08-15 21:20:18
346.   Icaros
Huh. The Giants run the bases as stupid as we do.
2006-08-15 21:20:51
347.   Bob Timmermann
This year's football schedule for the Coons of Oconomowoc High

Menomonee Falls

@ Kettle Moraine

@ Hartford

Wisconsin Lutheran

@ West Bend West

Beaver Dam (Homecoming)

West Bend East

@ Watertown

Madison West

The battle between the Coons and Beaver Dam should be full of delightful misinterpretation.

I also like the fact that Kettle Moraine High just took a name that is so straightforward since it's a geographical feature. It's like going to a high school called "Mountain."

2006-08-15 21:22:22
348.   Greg Brock
The battle between the Coons and Beaver Dam should be full of delightful misinterpretation.

That's it, I'm moving to Wisconsin. Not really.

2006-08-15 21:23:16
349.   bhsportsguy
347 So that is not Grittle material.
2006-08-15 21:24:28
350.   Mr Customer
347 West Bend West is just an awesome name, too.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-08-15 21:24:31
351.   scooplew
Remember that Matt Herges was so disappointed when the Dodgers traded him to Montreal in 2002 that he cried? Is he married to Todd Hollandsworth's sister, or is Hollandsworth married to Herges' sister?
2006-08-15 21:24:43
352.   KG16
Heck of a play by Betemit - however it's pronounced.
2006-08-15 21:25:18
353.   Sam DC
Oh, am I smart enough not to try and get mileage out of that one from my wife who attended Oconomowoc High until grade 11.

She went on to UC Berkeley you know.

But she really just calls it Cal.

2006-08-15 21:25:51
354.   Bob Timmermann
Beaver Dam High is in Beaver Dam, WI. It's like they stopped trying to come up with names after a while.
2006-08-15 21:25:57
355.   fanerman
One of my goals in the week off I have at home is to watch Chad Billingsley pitch. I hope he pitches a gem.
2006-08-15 21:26:14
356.   tjshere
349 Nah, Grittle wouldn't be interested. One of his coaches might be though.
2006-08-15 21:27:23
357.   Eric L
342 The guy who gave up that homerun to Bonds was Dennis Tankersley.
2006-08-15 21:28:03
358.   Mr Customer
348 There are supposedly people in Madison that could verify that I spent a fair amount of time in Wisconsin during college. I have no way of corroborating that, but neither do I have any way of contradicting it either.
2006-08-15 21:28:06
359.   Greg Brock
I bet Watertown has a helluva a swim team.
2006-08-15 21:28:38
360.   JoeyP
Why exactly does Amezaga play ahead of Cody Ross?
2006-08-15 21:29:18
361.   Rob M
With Izturis gone, Lugo as our 9th man, and Saenz as our top PH, the Dodger lineup is pretty relentless most nights. There isn't a single guy I dread seeing in the on deck circle most nights. After the last couple of years, thats saying something.
2006-08-15 21:29:42
362.   StolenMonkey86
360 - because Girardi doesn't know about the ex-Dodger thing
2006-08-15 21:29:54
363.   Icaros
According to Gameday, Broxton rolled that last pitch to Amezaga like a bowling ball, who swung and missed.
2006-08-15 21:29:54
364.   Icaros
According to Gameday, Broxton rolled that last pitch to Amezaga like a bowling ball, who swung and missed.
2006-08-15 21:30:08
365.   Greg S
Okay, fess up. Which one of us made a deal with the Devil about 18 days ago?
2006-08-15 21:30:23
366.   Mr Customer
358 Yes, I know that last sentence was grammar hell.
2006-08-15 21:30:46
367.   Icaros
I did nothing to deserve that.
2006-08-15 21:31:07
368.   Paul Scott
361 Lucille II. But other than that, yes.
2006-08-15 21:31:24
369.   tjshere
365 Wasn't me. I'm still poor.
2006-08-15 21:31:56
370.   Paul Scott
11 Ks through 8. Not bad.
2006-08-15 21:32:12
371.   Eric L
365 I thought not wearing my hat was sort of a deal with the devil during the win streak. Of course, when they lost last week, I made sure to start wearing it again. They've won anyways.
2006-08-15 21:32:35
372.   Greg Brock
365 Maybe Fausto Carmona is a Dodger fan.
2006-08-15 21:32:38
373.   StolenMonkey86
maybe Schuerholz is the devil
2006-08-15 21:33:19
374.   Bob Timmermann
Ryan Dempster in as pitcher #9 for the Cubs. They just have two players left: Rich Hill and Carlos Marmol.

If either one of them pitches, the Cubs would tie the NL record for most pitchers in an extra inning game.

2006-08-15 21:33:23
375.   Paul Scott
365 I would have, but I traded my soul in second grade for a PBJ, so I had nothing of interest to offer.
2006-08-15 21:33:36
376.   JoeyP
The Schedule Makers?

Any schedule that has the Pirates on it for 12 games is a good one.

2006-08-15 21:34:02
377.   Rob M
363 He bounced a hard breaking ball around the plate.
2006-08-15 21:34:04
378.   Mr Customer
Vinnie Chulk fails to choke up another walk-off. Giants win.
2006-08-15 21:34:18
379.   dzzrtRatt
365 The devil wears Prada. Jamie shops at the same place.
2006-08-15 21:34:32
380.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Sele to close it out?
2006-08-15 21:35:25
381.   JoeyP
That was only the 8th inning.
2006-08-15 21:35:40
382.   Greg Brock
376 Don't go underestimating the Pirates. I hear they have a great manager. He even has his own style of baseball.
2006-08-15 21:36:28
383.   Mr Customer
378 That was premature...
2006-08-15 21:36:59
384.   StolenMonkey86
382 - Have I heard of this manager before? Yes I have. Am I impressed with him? Not particularly.
2006-08-15 21:37:22
385.   Greg S
Excellent point.
2006-08-15 21:38:06
386.   Mr Customer
381 The AZ/CO crawl was passing by as I was watching the 8th inning. I'm gonna take the old brain in to get rewired soon.
2006-08-15 21:38:24
387.   JoeyP
The cool thing is that sure the schedule has been easy the last couple weeks, but I think its just as easy in Sept.

Pirates/Cubs/Brewers for 9 games, and then the some more whoopings of the Rockies to dole out.

Unless the Dodgers just get totally worked against the Padres/DBax, they might be able to coast into the NL West title.

2006-08-15 21:38:27
388.   Paul Scott
To repeat from last inning, who is in the BP? :)
2006-08-15 21:39:17
389.   Greg Brock
387 Please don't repeat that last sentence.
2006-08-15 21:39:23
390.   fanerman
When does Loney play? Does he play some OF? He's just pinch-hit the last couple days, hasn't he?
2006-08-15 21:39:34
391.   Icaros
Apparently, F.P. Santangelo and Eliezer Alfonzo are dating.
2006-08-15 21:40:03
392.   Paul Scott
387 I think we have 4 against the Mets, but yeah, we have a pretty easy schedule here out. With the exception of the MEts it's either an NL West team or someone pretty terrible.
2006-08-15 21:40:23
393.   Greg S
Given the shot from the blimp, it looks to be a couple of ants and a termite. When did we sign them?
2006-08-15 21:40:56
394.   dzzrtRatt
{387} Oh, JoeyP, you did it again. You always put me in a good mood.
2006-08-15 21:41:52
395.   StolenMonkey86
the Reds aren't bad, although we did work them over pretty nicely
2006-08-15 21:41:56
396.   Greg Brock
Meanwhile, the saga continues in Houston.
2006-08-15 21:42:44
397.   StolenMonkey86
What's with Houston and extra inning games
2006-08-15 21:43:06
398.   Paul Scott
Benitez with a 1-run lead. Luckily the Pads don't have much of an offense, still the outcome is 50/50 at this point.
2006-08-15 21:44:37
399.   StolenMonkey86
Loney gets playing time
2006-08-15 21:45:32
400.   Greg S
Sele, Gio, Broxton, Ant, Termite... doesn't much matter. Seems like everyone gets it done.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-08-15 21:46:19
401.   Greg Brock
We Win!
2006-08-15 21:46:52
402.   Paul Scott
Nice! Great win for Bills and the Dodgeers.
2006-08-15 21:46:53
403.   StolenMonkey86
7 pitches. Nice
2006-08-15 21:47:37
404.   JoeyP
3.5 game lead

Thats 11 games made up in 18 days unbelievable.

2006-08-15 21:48:07
405.   Paul Scott
Somehow Benitez does not blow it. SD loses. 3.5 up.
2006-08-15 21:48:14
406.   Mr Customer
That would seem to be Bills #4. Hopefully, it'll become Bills #1.
2006-08-15 21:48:28
407.   Marty
This is just amazing. I imagine this is how Yankees fans felt in the 1950s.
2006-08-15 21:49:11
408.   StolenMonkey86
3.5 up.

Andre Ethier is on top of the division!

2006-08-15 21:49:36
409.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Dodgers pitching: 3 hits 1 walk, 11 strikeouts.
2006-08-15 21:49:54
410.   StolenMonkey86
we got a little bit of #1 mixed in, but all in all a great outing
2006-08-15 21:50:01
411.   Greg Brock
Watching Billz have this kind of successmanship bodes well for the future. Great outing, kid.
2006-08-15 21:51:46
412.   Sam DC
G'night and goodluck. See you all in round two weeks.
2006-08-15 21:52:20
413.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Dodgers are 8 games back of the Mets.
2006-08-15 21:52:52
414.   Bob Timmermann

Yankee fans in the 1950s worried more about the Soviets invading Europe than we do today.

2006-08-15 21:53:12
415.   Icaros
I think "successmanship" is my new favorite word, right up there with "disunderstood."
2006-08-15 21:53:25
416.   Marty
Where are you going Sam?
2006-08-15 21:53:29
417.   Greg Brock
Bye Sam. Have a nice vacation. Say "Hi" to Wisconsin for me.
2006-08-15 21:53:43
418.   Greg S
Have a great trip Sam. Hopefully when you get back we'll have won 28 out of 29.
2006-08-15 21:53:48
419.   Bob Timmermann
If Sam loved us, he would log in from a public library in Wisconsin.

But we know how we rate....

2006-08-15 21:56:34
420.   Icaros

Don't worry, he'll end up doing something like that.

The emptiness will be too much for two weeks.

2006-08-15 21:56:55
421.   StolenMonkey86
Billingsley's average game score is now a 51.67
2006-08-15 21:57:27
422.   Greg S
Lindsay Soto is almost as hot as the Dodgers. That's all I'm trying to say.
2006-08-15 21:57:50
423.   tjshere
Lindsay Soto needs to eat more cheeseburgers. With fries.
2006-08-15 21:58:16
424.   Greg Brock
415 If you feel like laughing for a good half hour, I give you the greatest non-words in history:

It's absolutely crantastic!

2006-08-15 21:58:18
425.   StolenMonkey86
419- would public libraries be open that late?
2006-08-15 21:58:49
426.   Paul Scott
Dempster is up to 38 pitches. He'll have to come out soon. It's into the 16th in Houston.
2006-08-15 22:00:49
427.   StolenMonkey86
other Dodger starters' avg game scores:

Sele - 49.71
Lowe - 50.58
Hendy - 44.13
Penny - 53.75

and based on a sample size of 3
Maddux - 67

2006-08-15 22:01:44
428.   Gagne55
Dodgers win! Yet, I'm strangely not satisfied. I want Michelle to call. =/
2006-08-15 22:03:07
429.   Gagne55
Dodgers on the verge of a season series sweep, at least.
2006-08-15 22:03:10
430.   Bob Timmermann
If one more pitcher comes in to the game in Houston, the Cubs and Astros will tie the major league record for pitchers used in a game at 18.
2006-08-15 22:03:31
431.   the OZ
If you're going to 'Sconsin, drink a Leinenkugel's beer for me. Dang, I miss that stuff. The pride of Chippewa Falls, I tell you!
2006-08-15 22:07:14
432.   Bob Timmermann
The Astros and Cubs are also playing a day game tomorrow.

I think somebody at Round Rock and somebody at Iowa is getting ready to come fill in tomorrow.

2006-08-15 22:08:22
433.   StolenMonkey86
they're in the top of the 13th in Coors
2006-08-15 22:08:25
434.   Eric L
420 Heck, I've been gone since Sunday and I was quite happy that the girlfriend and I found a hotel with WiFi tonight. After seeing the Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde, and Mt. Rushmore in successive days, I can't say their was any emptiness, but it would have been nice to catch a couple of the games.

Besides, I've been driving so much that it's nice just to kick back and relax.

2006-08-15 22:08:47
435.   Bob Timmermann

Add one.

2006-08-15 22:15:53
436.   Bob Timmermann
Carlos Marmol pinch hits for Dempster in the 17th. He should be the Cubs 10th pitcher and is the 24th Cub to play in the game.
2006-08-15 22:15:59
437.   StolenMonkey86
the Dodger Report mentions that with Lofton's latest steal, his next target to pass will be 19th century ballplayer Dummy Hoy.

Baseball-Reference lists Dummy Hoy as a similar batter to Brett Butler

2006-08-15 22:16:13
438.   Berkeley Doug
Great win tonight. It's always nice to leave work with a tie game and come home with the Dodgers leading.

Three stars for the game:

1. Billingsley - great pitching performance
2. Lofton - his fielding may be shaky, but he can still hit
3. Kent - just for the nice play in 8th getting the out after the runner slid past second

2006-08-15 22:17:57
439.   Paul Scott
Marmol PH for Dempster - so the Cubs are now at 10 pitchers (18 total between them).
2006-08-15 22:18:57
440.   Greg Brock
Cubs brought in Rich Hill. They obviously want to end this game.
2006-08-15 22:18:59
441.   Bob Timmermann
Rich Hill is in to pitch. That means all 25 Cubs have played.
2006-08-15 22:21:45
442.   Jon Weisman
439 - So we've got a Jeff Hamilton-type situation developing?
2006-08-15 22:21:50
443.   Paul Scott
Dusty must think it's September already.
2006-08-15 22:21:57
444.   Bob Timmermann
Rich Hill is supposed to start tomorrow for the Cubs.
2006-08-15 22:22:37
445.   D4P
Has it been pointed out that we are in a "virtual" tie with the Cardinals...?
2006-08-15 22:22:50
446.   Jon Weisman
441 - They're hoping the game extends to September 1.
2006-08-15 22:23:21
447.   Bob Timmermann
It would be more like an 1880s situation. If Hill couldn't pitch anymore, he'd have to go in to the field and they'd have to rotate positions.
2006-08-15 22:23:54
448.   Paul Scott
Anyone know what happens in an injury here? Cubs play with less than 9 or are they forced to forfiet?
2006-08-15 22:24:42
449.   Bob Timmermann
Cardinals .5338
Dodgers .5333
2006-08-15 22:25:08
450.   Bob Timmermann
If you can't send out nine players, you have to forfeit.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-08-15 22:25:30
451.   Paul Scott
445 The Cards are ahead of us. They have played two fewer games and we split those two games.
2006-08-15 22:26:27
452.   JoeyP
Cubs have ran out of players.
Brad Ausmus is catching his 18th inning.
2006-08-15 22:26:38
453.   Paul Scott
450 How is the game recorded in that event?
2006-08-15 22:26:57
454.   bhsportsguy
449 I think the Cards have us on the tiebreaker, something about head to head play.
2006-08-15 22:27:10
455.   Bob Timmermann
A game shall be forfeited to the opposing team when a team is unable or refuses to place nine players on the field.
2006-08-15 22:28:36
456.   Greg Brock
First and third, nobody out for the Cubs.
2006-08-15 22:29:02
457.   Bob Timmermann
The stats would stand. It would just go in to the record book as a win for the team that was awarded a forfeit. There would be no losing or winning pitcher since this is extra innings and the Cubs would only forfeit if the game were tied or if they were ahead.
2006-08-15 22:29:22
458.   D4P
Yes, but if we were in the same division, we'd each be "0.0" games back of each other.
2006-08-15 22:30:26
459.   Paul Scott
455 Thanks. Do you know what the game record looks like at that point? Does the pitcher of record at that time get the win? In a forfeited game, do the stats accumulated to that point count?
2006-08-15 22:30:27
460.   Berkeley Doug
I notice that the Cubs have used two pitchers as PHs. When was the last time that happened?
2006-08-15 22:30:28
461.   Berkeley Doug
I notice that the Cubs have used two pitchers as PHs. When was the last time that happened?
2006-08-15 22:30:35
462.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers and Cardinals were in the same division, the Cardinals would have the yellow jersey and the Dodgers would have the checkered jersey.
2006-08-15 22:30:54
463.   Berkeley Doug
2006-08-15 22:32:41
464.   Gagne55
I'd assume that is a Cub got injured, he'd go to left field and the Cubs would just pray nobody hit it to left field.
2006-08-15 22:33:38
465.   Greg Brock
8-6 Cubs on the single by Murton.
2006-08-15 22:34:43
466.   Greg Brock
We go to the bottom of whatever inning it is. The 18th, I think.
2006-08-15 22:34:47
467.   Jon Weisman
459 - Let's find the Disco Demolition Night box.
2006-08-15 22:35:08
468.   Berkeley Doug
Come on Astros! I want more baseball. Let's go another 9 innings.
2006-08-15 22:35:30
469.   StolenMonkey86
the most hits in that game: Cesar Izturis, who is 4-8, all singles and 1 RBI
2006-08-15 22:37:45
470.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the Cubs are the first team to use all 25 players on their roster in one game.

There have been other teams that have used 25 or more players, but it's been after 9/1 or in one instance, it was in April, but that was in 1959 and teams were able to carry an extra five players for the first couple of weeks.

The A's used 30 players against the Angels in a 15 inning game in 1972.

Lots of good Griddle stuff.

2006-08-15 22:38:13
471.   Paul Scott
Somehow, in a better managed game, the Snakes and Rockies are in inning 16. Both have a bech player and at elast one reliever left before they go into their starters.
2006-08-15 22:38:43
472.   Bob Timmermann
There's no box score for the Disco Demolition forfeit since the game never started.
2006-08-15 22:39:26
473.   Greg Brock
470 That's so funny. I was just thinking to myself "Somewhere, a Timmermann is lining up a dilly of a Griddle entry."

Or entries. I'm breathless with anticipation.

2006-08-15 22:41:15
474.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Cubs win!
2006-08-15 22:41:32
475.   Greg Brock
Ballgame. 5 hrs and 36 min. Gadzooks.
2006-08-15 22:41:54
476.   Paul Scott
Damn. Game over in Houston.
2006-08-15 22:42:49
477.   Eric Stephen
Dodger "ball night" forfeit ended with 1 out in the 9th. Since the Cards were ahead, the ptichers of record (Mark Petkovsek, W; Hideo Nomo, L) got decisions.

Tom Henke got the save. Somewhere, Jae Seo weeps.

2006-08-15 22:43:19
478.   Jon Weisman
And the caravan moves to Denver ...
2006-08-15 22:45:49
479.   Greg Brock
Meanwhile, back at the TimmerCave, Bob spends the wee hours of the morning cobbling together one interesting Griddle entry.

It may be a Fortress of TimmerTude. I'm not really sure.

2006-08-15 22:46:50
480.   Greg Brock
It's probably just a house.
2006-08-15 22:46:53
481.   Paul Scott
477 what caused the forfeit?
2006-08-15 22:48:54
482.   Eric Stephen
481 Dodger "fans" threw souvenir baseballs (on ball night) on to the field in protest after Raul Mondesi struck out for the first out in the 9th inning, Dodgers trailing 2-1.

2006-08-15 22:50:23
483.   Berkeley Doug
These extra inning games are just a warm-up for the insane East Coast playoff games that start at 8 PM EST and end after 1 AM EST. It's nice to live on the West Coast as a sports fan.
2006-08-15 23:14:23
484.   Chris H
Luis Gonzalez just picked a good time to get his first hit.
2006-08-15 23:18:26
485.   Greg Brock
Arizona takes the lead in Colorado.
2006-08-15 23:23:34
486.   JoeyP
Is Matt Holiday hurt, or has Clint Hurdle managed to bench his best player in an 18 inning game?
2006-08-15 23:31:30
487.   Greg Brock
Holiday is hurt.

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